American slavery (fl. 1619-1865) is slavery as practised by the people we now call White Americans. It is so much a part of their history that it has even shaped the word “white”. It tore America apart in civil war in the 1860s. Some argue that “slavery by another name” went on after 1865 – the chain gangs, prison labour and so on. This post is about the sort that went on openly from 1619 to 1865 with the full support of the law.
White Americans bought at least 455,000 black slaves in the Transatlantic slave trade, mostly in the 1700s, mostly from West Africa. They also had some Native American slaves.
Slavery was not about race till the 1660s – before then it was about religion. And some blacks were not slaves but indentured servants like whites. There was no colour line. That came in the late 1600s to divide the working class to make it easier to control.
Slaves cooked, cleaned, took care of white children, cleared the land, drained swamps, grew tobacco, cotton, sugar, hemp and rice. They built the White House and the Capitol Building. They built much of the country and made it rich. But that wealth went to whites, not blacks.
Slaves could not own property, make much money, go to school, go to court, change employers, move, protect their families, send money to families back in Africa, strike or do much about working conditions. It was dangerous to show anger in front of whites or express thoughts of one’s own. With torn and bleeding hearts they smiled, as Paul Lawrence Dunbar put it.
White Fake Christianity approved: the Curse of Ham in the Bible said so! So did white science.
Whites believed that blacks were content as slaves – black song and dance proved it! But runaways and slave uprisings like Nat Turner’s told another story.
We have hundreds of written accounts by former slaves. They tell of rape, torture, sadism, overwork, family separations and too little food and clothing. They were not imagining it: an old African graveyard discovered in New York City showed that even children suffered from joint pain and torn muscles, presumably from being made to carry loads too heavy for them. Half of those in the graveyard were under 12, most of them not babies.
Except for the land, slaves were the main form of wealth in America. The top 10% of slave owners owned 93% of the wealth in the South. Of the richest people in America, two-thirds were slave owners.
Whites used slaves as collateral in business deals, gave them away as wedding presents. Washington, DC and every town in the South had a slave market. Whites sold over a million people – even their own children.
Northern states outlawed slavery between the 1770s and 1830s, but even they profited from slavery. They got rich from selling slaves, tobacco, cotton and sugar. That money went into banks, insurance companies, shipping firms and universities. They built factories to turn slave-grown cotton into cloth, the beginning of the industrialization of America.
Source: Nell Irvin Painter, “Creating Black Americans” (2006), mainly.
See also:
- Broader pictures of which American slavery is a part:
- Arab slavery
- Slavery by Another Name
- The Transatlantic slave trade
- slave patrols
- minstrel show
- Harriet Tubman
- American abolitionists
- Arguments about slavery:
- Current arguments about slavery
- The curse of Ham – the main argument for slavery back then
- drapetomania
- How slavery affects the white lens:
- Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks?
- darkies – why black people seem so joyful to whites
- Black people according to Thomas Jefferson
- Stereotypes that come from slavery:
Its history and it was a long time ago. Irish were also slaves for the british. Maritimers in eastern canada are treated as second class in canada. There is unfairness all over the world. French gets a job before english in canada. A newcomer from a foreign country takes a job from a citizen………the list goes on and on……….
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Yawn.
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Check the timeline here:
http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm
To see how and when “race” entered the race, if I may say.
“1680
White appears in colonial laws
Early colonial laws refer to Christians or Englishmen, rather than whites. Around the time of Bacon’s Rebellion in 1676, new laws begin to appear, separating Black slaves from European indentured servants. Slavery becomes permanent and heritable for Negroes, and Black people are punished more harshly for crimes. Poor whites are given new rights and opportunities, including as overseers to police slaves. As the importance of slavery grows, white is used almost exclusively, not only in law but other social arenas, and slavery becomes associated exclusively with Blackness.”
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Aba
I admire your tenacity to keep on writing about this topic but may I please add an honest comment? Whites are morally, Spirituality and mentally deficient. They cannot EVER fully grasp the way they tore apart the entire world with their racial construct. That denial has caused severe mental illness that has been passed on through their bloodline and continues today.
Our chattel slavery was and continues to be the most horrific act of inhuemanity the world has ever seen. Whites enjoy seeing us suffer and scream and explode with bullets. Our torment gives them purpose and solidifies their self-proclaimed “superiority.”
Lack of melanin and the calcification of their pineal gland causes severe behavioural issues even within their own race. If we were not around for them to kill, maim and subjugate they would self destruct.
Dr. Bobby Wright was correct in his hypothesis that Caucasians are truly psychopaths in the literal sense of the word. They know and understand that the things they do is wrong. They just do not care. The only way to rectify them is by Mother Nature’s karma, which they will SOON experience right here on AmeriKlan soil. I wish to feel pity for them but my energies are best spent on my own on goal of Spiritual ascension.
I’m sure you’ll get many, many white “beings”, especially Randy and other whites pretending to be “one of us”, that will jump all over this thread eager to prove otherwise so I’ll leave you now with my sentiments.
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Jane, the things you are referring to are true historical facts, but American (not only in the US) slavery practiced with the deportation and enslavement of Africans (by the millions) and with a cruelty equalled maybe only by the Arabs because it lasted longer in their case, has no comparison in the history of humanity.
This is probably one reason why my countrymen and women, the French, refuse to talk about it. They call it “repentence” (or fake a “yawn”, rollingwriter, as if this was a usual and everyday topic) whenever historians (like Claude Ribbe, who wrote on Napoleon and his extremely racist policies or Louis Sala-Molins who wrote on the Code Noir and exposed for what it is, a totally racist law that considers Africans -“Blacks”- as merely goods).
There certainly is NO glory anymore in that part of OUR history.
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diaryofanegress your anger (which I acknowledge) blinds you and will lead you to hatred.
Easy “biological” explanations serve white supremacy, they don’t attack it, because that’s what it’s made of. They reinforce it.
But I know I can’t convince you, because you are convinced that who you call “whites” are ALL crazy. Which I can understand considering that many are (racists and therefore sick).
Peace.
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You are right on.
Felicia
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Thank you for fearlessly sharing this truth. Many people are so afraid to discuss the true horrors of slavery that this story, our story, is being brushed under a mat with the sweepers praying that it never surfaces. More people should know the truth about slavery and I appreciate you beginning that discussion.
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Abagond summarized:
And this is what many people classified as “white” and who learn and don’t reject racism DON’T get. Because they benefit from it, *compared* to others, in particular those classified as “black”. They too get screwed by the wealthy “whites” who are the real, conscious racists.
Who would fight a system which he/she benefits from (materially) ? Not many… I mean, really, honestly ? Isn’t that where the knot of the problem is ? Only those who sees achievement in their life as something else than making money.
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@Cornlia
Who would fight a system which he/she benefits from (materially) ? Not many… I mean, really, honestly ? Isn’t that where the knot of the problem is ? Only those who sees achievement in their life as something else than making money.
This is the same problem class/ethinicity wise, in the black community in America and in PoC communities the world over. Affluent PoC benefit(marginally) from the system and usually(with rare exception) benefit from it and reinforce it.
They tend to(again with rare exception) see having economic privilege the same way whites do when it comes to racism i.e. “I didn’t make the system the way it is, I just happen to benefit from it, and everything I got I had to work for.”
Considering how blatant racism is in American life, people like that have to be somewhat deluded and cushioned by a little bit of economic privilege in order to accept the system as it is. When the majority of black complain that Obama isn’t doing anything for them they have to remember who backed him financially, people like Beyonce and Jay who compared to most in their community are upper middle class and well to do. They have no problem with the system currently cause they’re getting paid.
This is why I feel like civil rights in America will never get any farther than it is now. Integration and civil rights gave a certain segment of the black community what they wanted. No further progress is necessary, in their minds, because this is the best it’s ever going to get.
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I have been coming to this site for a couple of weeks now and I am always amazed at the trolls or those who deflect or trivialise the topic at hand, especially when it comes to slavery, Jim Crow, racism of Whites, such as commenters like Jane and ‘rollingwriter’, who simply wrote ‘yawn’.
Classic example of deflection that Abagond mentioned in ones of his posts referring to the broken record arguments of Whites when confronted with the brutal, racist aspects of their history.
Here we have a post briefly summarising the brutal institution of slavery, and the commenter, Jane, simply dismisses the subject of slavery endured by blacks at the hands of Europeans as simply “Its history and it was a long time ago”, then quickly tries to change the topic to talk about Irish being slaves (I acknowledge that they were treated very poorly by other Europeans like the English for example) and other Europeans. My question is….what does that have to do with the topic of the American slavery of Blacks? It just irks me when there are Whites who say that slavery was a long time ago, implying that we should just forget it and never bring it up again. It appears that Jane is not really bothered by this topic (rather she is indifferent). Notice how she doesn’t refer to any of the facts that Abagond presented.
@Diary of a negress
I kind of agree with your first two paragraphs. Quite eloquently put. I do feel that way about Whites sometimes. Yes, I know that not every White person is like that but I have read so so so many comments on the internet regarding Blacks, whether it be on Black blogs or Youtube, and they are so many racist, vile, apathetic statements mad about us Blacks that are scary but…in a strange way, I’ve become immune to the idea that many Whites will always see us as inferior no matter what we do, and enjoy dominating and humiliating us either implicitly or explicitly. I have wondered at one point whether, racism to a lot of Whites is like breathing air, that is to say, that is comes naturally, like it is genetic or something.
Sorry for the long post. 😦
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Jane,
Broken Record Department please.
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Abagond, its great that you do various threads about American slavery, or what life was like for the slaves and the racism back then
This is a period , that is so murky and cloudy in our history, it is the many stories that are untold, the very deep struggles and life dramas that the slaves faced .
There is hardly any real record on what the slaves were really doing, when not watched by the masters, there is no real record of the culture they were practicing , outside of spirituals and work songs, but, you know they were expressing other cultures, but, it is just not recorded or documented, its lost forever…its very good to look back at American slavery and study what history there was and speculate on what was really going on
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We’ve come a long way. This summary just touches the tip of the resiliency of my people. I’ve visited Mount Vernon-GeorgeWashington’s home and I saw the slave quarters it was unbelievable the condition of that space. The grounds had several trees that I’m sure were used for hanging the unruly slaves. This history should never be forgotten no matter how shameful or painful.
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Why would some person even put “yawn” as a response. How asinine. That’s why I rarely comment on this blog anymore. Abagond has let the trolls take over and pretty much do what they wish. They deflect and derail threads all the time. The ONLY thread that wasn’t hijacked by “them” was the 1st Racist Experience thread and that is because I ASKED him to. I like Abagond’s posts, but his resident trolls who can’t seem to stay away from the very people they loathe make me sick. Wish I could talk to like minded individuals without interference. This blog is going the way of Field Negro’s. I’m SO over the trolls here. Like Black family always says, “This is why we can’t have NOTHIN’!” smh
I’m with DiaryOfANegress on this one. History and present times show they cannot reform. Trying to “school” someone who doesn’t want to learn is an exercise in futility.
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I don’t think there is a widespread white american desire to not acknowledge the history of slavery, its just hard for the majority of White Americans to feel complicit when 1. During that time they had no descendants in this country and 2. became part of the white american ethnic group in twentieth century. Often this history is presented in a manner which wants working class whites to feel apologetic, and they don’t see why they should, neither they nor their descendants participate in the Atlantic slave trade. The argument that they benefited from its consequences all the same as a way of assigning guilt is a bit silly as well. It is like telling american blacks that they are complicit in Shell’s paramilitary actives in the Niger Delta, because they directly benefit form the consequences of the oil which is pumped in the region. The Atlantic Slave trade was terrible, and american slavery was terrible. Many ethnic/racial (race was being created at the time as is eloquently pointed out on this blog) participated in the trade, and benefit and blame can be widely ascribed, but blame can be primarily placed on the shoulders of Europeans, and then later white Americans. So what! All of us who are part of the new immigrant communities to come to the US don’t care. We don’t care because we almost all have modern stories of suffering (as in we are or know people who have suffered them) that are terrible. When your grandparents and uncles spent the 80’s cowering under Iraqi bombs, you were born in a thai refugee camp because your ethnic group lost a war with the pathet lao, or you have bullet scares from a mogadishu childhood, black american discussion of the historic suffering of slaves, and why white people need to apologize seems trite.
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@AhmadGoli
Is that so ?
I can’t help but notice that you gave examples of war torn countries as a reason for not caring, but as far as i know the groups called Whites and Blacks were mostly at peace with each other all along their shared history.
That your mind subconsciously perceives some kind of equivalency is interesting enough.
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@darqbeauty
“I like Abagond’s posts, but his resident trolls who can’t seem to stay away from the very people they loathe make me sick.”
I do find it rather fascinating that on Black blogs, Youtube videos made about and by Black people, that there are always white and other non-black trolls who deliberately go out of their way to watch these kind of videos. Then vent how Blacks are “inferior”, how slavery “benefited” us because it apparently brought us “civilisation”, how black women are ugly etc. etc. ad nauseam. One recent example, a video on Youtube called ‘400 Years without a comb’, which talks about the role that hair played for the slaves in the USA. One white girl (she pointed it out in her comments or at least implied that she was white) stated that she was NOT racist yet mentioned something like “But Whites are the best honey and everyone knows it.”
I could give so much more examples, such as the white “settlement” of South Africa, and how Europeans did not see many blacks in that part of Africa, the Europeans were kind and felt sorry for the poor poor blacks, they fed them, taught them “civilisation”, then the Africans started breeding a lot, outnumbering the Whites, then they started attacking the Whites apparently, so the poor White man in Africa had no choice but to establish Apartheid. So, Negroes should be “grateful” that Whites came to civilise them. I have come across those kind of comments on Amren, Youtube and others.
Slightly off-topic, but I recently delved into some article about the sexual assault and violence of African-American women during slavery AND throughout Jim Crow (domestic workers,black women just randomly walking on the street, or in their house even). Anyway, there is an African-American women called Recy Taylor, who was gang-raped by 4 white men in the Jim Crow South in 1944. I think that the site where I read this is called ‘Color lines’, anyway, there are three comments, the third one doesn’t make any sense, but the other two were absolutely heartless. The first being ‘Old slave bitch’ and the second talk about “Niggers are always whining”, then the commenter refers to a crime statistics website, as the person wanted to illustrate black criminality.
So, here we have a story of a black women who was gang-raped by racist White men (who I don’t think were charged or imprisoned for that crime, but hey she was a black women, we are all “Jezebels” “sexually lewd” etc. so who cares right?) and some commenters call her derogatory names ….just unbelievable.
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Who is asking white people for an apology? An apology is the last thing African Americans want. Apologies are mostly for the person apologizing.
Why can’t African Americans talk about our past for the sake of trying to understand and learn from it. Especially, with so many people trying to re-write our history. I live in Arkansas. We have state legislatures writing books about how wonderful slavery was.
Do you really think a modern day African American wants a white person to say “I apologize for that whole slavery thing, my bad”. No, we much prefer you do something a lot harder: stop being racists.
Legion, the art piece shows a black mother tending to a white child, holding it while her own Black child is on the floor, clutching to her legs.
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@ Peanut
That is true unfortunately…
@ Solesearch
“Especially, with so many people trying to re-write our history. I live in Arkansas. We have state legislatures writing books about how wonderful slavery was.”
Are you being serious? I’m not saying that you are lying but that sounds crazy!!! Though, I wouldn’t be surprised…
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“Do you really think a modern day African American wants a white person to say “I apologize for that whole slavery thing, my bad”. No, we much prefer you do something a lot harder: stop being racists.”
*******
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **If** only THEY could.
Solesearch,
I’m beginning to realize (thanks Onitaset) that it IS their nature is to be racist. Europeans (white people) simply are who and what they are – racists. They can’t stop being what they are! Dogs act like dogs, cows do what cows do, pigs always oink or squeal — like pigs.
Dogs don’t behave as cows, pigs don’t act like dogs, and cows don’t roll like wolves (or pigs).
But *some* modern day Africans have entered into, embraced European culture.
We’ve adopted their ways, customs, beliefs, ideas, methods, religion…
This has been and continues to be one of the greatest and gravest errors Africans could ever make. It confuses and harms us as we attempt to find life & acceptance in a system that is not of our own making or our own way.
And since Europeans can’t help but BE who and what they are, it surely behooves Africans (American or otherwise) to begin segregating/separating/distancing ourselves from them and become (again) who we really are – for we are NOT them! We were not ever intended to behave as THEY do.
Whiteness is an affront to the Spirit, which can be also be said this way: Whiteness aka racism/white supremacy is demonic!
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Matari
Xenophobia is apart of their nature. The Anglo-saxon despises the Italian. The Italian hates the Khazar and they all have contempt for the Slavs and the Irish. There is even fear of redheads amongst the pride members.
Yurugu is missing the other half of his spirit so it is not uncommon for him to be possessed with demons. That is why they are prone to death-defying acts like jumping out of aeroplanes and diving with sharks.
Have you EVER heard of one African trying to ski down Mt. Everest on one leg blindfolded?
Me either.
I’ve been trying to tell my people to stay as far away from these beings because like their ancestor, Nosferatu, they drain your spirit and leave you weakened and unable to resist their temptations. That is why they need our melanin and seek to marry and spawn with us.
Slavery and its horrors was just a small part of the Europeans evil. Image what took place in the caves…
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Ellis, the statement is true if you replace “legislatures” with “legislators”. Horrible typo.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/loy-mauch-arkansas-slavery_n_1948717.html
Legion, apology accepted.
Matari, no, just no. White people are human beings and have the same ability as all other human beings to reject hatred and ignorance. Racism/Whiteness is learned. You obviously are aware of this since you agree that Africans can perpetuate racism. If that is the case, then white people can learn to reject racism, as many already have.
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Truth : ))
“Have you EVER heard of one African trying to ski down Mt. Everest on one leg blindfolded?
Me either.”
********
ROTFLOL
(…not to be compared with the antics of the Jamaican bobsled team…)
You’ve been hangin’ out with Herneith again, haven’t you!!??
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Matari
I do think that the nature of the post and some of the comments here point to the fact that Black Americans do want ordinary white people to acknowledge their direct complicity in the Atlantic slave trade, and I think that is silly, as in so many cases white people are just the descendants of northern European peasants, who after another failed danish winter with only turnips in 1890’s decide to come to america. Its not that they aren’t racist, just that there racism isn’t a profound act linked directly to systems of power past and present. The last bit of your comment is ridiculous, people aren’t just racist by nature, or as you imply genetics. That is a stupid and strange rehashing of the same kind of myths that led to scientific racism. Racism and ethnocentrism (and I think that today in america race is actually a stand in for ethnicity, in the case of whites and blacks) are social creations, not born in traits. Many Somali immigrants pejoratively think of both american whites and blacks as qutfir (infidel), but have no problem considering blond turks and mongol hazarehs as brothers.For many, Somali’s what counts is ethnicity and religion, because that is how their world view is constructed. Diaryofanegress, either you are using metaphors beyond my comprehension or you are a bit mad
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“You obviously are aware of this since you agree that Africans can perpetuate racism.”
*******************
I agree that Africans can do what ….. ???
Clearly you have me confused with some *other* Matari… : )
I don’t believe (as Kwamla so eloquently explained) that anyone other than whites can be racist. It’s impossible for blacks, Africans, etc to be racists! Good or bad, blacks only REACT to racism. We don’t benefit or receive privileges from the system white supremacy/racism.
Tell me Solesearch, if white people have the same ability to reject (all forms of) hatred and ignorance as others, then why is it that the OVERWHELMINGLY MAJORITY of whites everywhere on the planet are in fact and deed harboring racist (WHITENESS) attitudes, beliefs, ideas and sentiments.
There might be a few Jane Elliots or Joshua Solomons out there, but in my experience they are very, VERY few – and their numbers don’t seem to be growing. Supposedly uncontaminated *WHITE* people are exceedingly rare! Virtually nonexistent. Even these folks have to STRUGGLE to fight against their racist tendencies.
Do not confuse NICE and seemingly happy/well meaning white people (as there are lots of these…) as having no racist bones in their body.
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Reparations to slaves now will be problematic at this point in time for several reasons.
– People who were actual slaves are no longer alive. So direct reparations are no longer possible. Even WWII internment reparations made to Japanese-Americans after 1988 & 1992 were made directly to survivors, not to any descendants.
– About 30% of white Americans, the overwhelming majority of blacks and a very large percentage of Hispanic Americans are mixed African / European. That would make up almost 40% of the USA. How do we divide up the entitlement of descendants of slaves? Do we need to do DNA tests to identify what the fractional reparation should be? Do we need to adjust for how many generations after slavery?
– What about those people who are black or part-black but are NOT descendant of US Slaves. what do we do about them? People who grandparents came from Jamaica, Haiti or Nigeria? Even someone like Obama would have to do it through his mother’s side, not his father’s side
I am sure that others can think of other reasons why it will be problematic.
For me, what needs to be done is to stop white-washing history, require that black history, Asian-American history, Native American history, Hispanic american history, etc. be required to be taught all year to all Americans, including those that identify as white. It is also THEIR history. And they need to teach the truth.
Stop pretending that slavery, lynching, genocide did not happen, or it was so long ago to be irrelevant now. Why was I not taught about the aboriginal peoples where I grew up? What happened to them? Why was I not taught about the slave plantations just down the road from where I went to school? Why do I have to do my own research just to learn about the history of where I grew up? This is one reason that I am p*i*ssed off about my school education.
We have to collectively recognize what happened in our history, teach it and learn from it.
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“White people are human beings and have the same ability as all other human beings to reject hatred and ignorance. Racism/Whiteness is learned.”
– – –
I totally agree.
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Black Americans do want ordinary white people to acknowledge their direct complicity in the Atlantic slave trade, and I think that is silly, as in so many cases white people are just the descendants of northern European peasants, who after another failed danish winter with only turnips in 1890′s decide to come to america. Its not that they aren’t racist, just that there racism isn’t a profound act linked directly to systems of power past and present. The last bit of your comment is ridiculous, people aren’t just racist by nature, or as you imply genetics.
**************
You know, that first sentence (you wrote) above is just stupid, don’t you?? As are the two following. It matters not what YOU think!
Like the plethora of drive by trolls that frequent this site, much or most of what you’ll see here WILL BE BEYOND your miserable reading comprehension.
No offense but most people like YOU can’t, or won’t, get the nuances and the truth of the matters being discussed here. It’s simply more profitable for YOU to be silent in the background. This site simply isn’t for YOU, about YOU – or about what YOU believe.
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Matari, by racism I meant white supremacy. Individual black people can benefit from white supremacy by ingratiating themselves white racists, Herman Cain, for example.
I do believe black people can be racist against white people. Reacting to racism with racism is still racism.
Most people, regardless of race, harbor white supremacist beliefs to varying degrees because it has been part of culture for so long. It has to be unlearned. It is a process.
The very existence of Jane Elliots and Joshua Solomons(I have no idea who these people are) proves that white people don’t have to be racists.
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@ Ellis
I’ve seen that type of garbage throughout cyberspace. This blog space at least gives some rationale for why trolls are admitted to roam free here. Not sure if you’ve see this blog post about the racist trolls here–>https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/my-philosophy-on-trolls/
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“I do think that the nature of the post and some of the comments here point to the fact that Black Americans do want ordinary white people to acknowledge their direct complicity in the Atlantic slave trade,”
AhmadGoli, can you give some examples because the nature of the post didn’t lead me to believe that at all. The only people who believe modern day whites are “directly complicit in the Atlantic Slave Trade” are people who don’t understand what “directly complicit” means. I’m not sure you understand what it means either.
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Thank you solesearch,
I wondering how anyone born nearly 200 years after the trans-Atlantic slave trade was outlawed could possibly have direct complicity in it. Certainly no one in their right mind would think that anyone could possibly have association or participation in events which came to pass before the individual was even born.
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I’m not tryin to pretend I fit in anywhere, but I think it’s a common thread, to break it down, that slavery established the economic infrastructure for the agricultural industry in the south (eg tobacco leaves on the senate building) to the point that the mentality fostered by that system has not changed and clearly is endemic with regards to neglect of inner city schools, the prison industry, it goes on and on…
white skin privelege exists, especially in employment and police matters. And, sadly, because there is no short term gain to changing this, there is considerable inertia, plus people are lazy and generally dont give an ish
not to mention the fact that the economy is basically on a weak last leg, people are scared, and most corporate employees would do great evil to retain their job especially if they get a pension
furthermore, why is there such a hard line against change or reparations is that it’s a zero-sum game, i’ve said this before, and there are no winners without losers.
the soporifics of welfare and affirmative action are palliatives to the ruling class in that it’s considered ‘enough’ for people to get by with.
So, we have an apology from the house and the senate, but that’s not really anything but words.
I’m interested some type of solution. I mean how can you really make that right, but there is precedent with the interment and the holocaust settlement, and rosewood, fl. to pay out to survivors, but what are you going to do, how much to give to everyone, how do you prove your family members were… that’s pretty grim to think about, records of sales, etc. which are probably mostly gone by now
It is race, but it is also class.
@diary what are you saying it will be great if everyone just starts rioting and anarchy comes around?
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but there is also precedent against reparations, the fleet bank/csx/aetna suit didn’t make it, I don’t agree with the logic that reparations can’t be made to descendants… but that was the majority opinion against the suit apparently, plus it was technically legal at the time?
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Matari,
Not agreeing with what I am saying does not make me a troll, my intention is not to be antagonistic to the blogs author or his ideas but to liven the debate. As for this blog not being for me, why is that. Is that because am I the wrong kind of PoC (I obviously am because like so many new immigrants don’t agree wholeheartly with a racial interpretation of world history, but also don’t dream of the day when white people might let me be one of them). I am sure there are nuances I don’t get about the black experience in america, but there are an awful lot of nuances that Americans (black and white aren’t so different when your coming from the third world) don’t get about the new wave of immigration. The value of a blog like this is that is it offers a space to discuss these issue, without having to take seriously the dominant mainstream paradigm about American history. But I also think it is important for white AND black Americans to understand that there are a lot of us in this country now who come from very different historical backgrounds, where things like the Atlantic slave trade are not in and of themselves critical parts of our past (to be angry about or be ashamed of). We live here now too, and have a right to speak, not as PoCs, but as who ever we understand ourselves to be.
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AhmadGoli, I think what happens with immigrants when they arrive, especially white immigrants, is they allow the stereotypes to continue, they are arriving into a situation favoring white privilage , they can be hired because they are white, they can get housing because they are white, they can cash in on advantages just being white that black Americans face discrimination about…
Reperations might be logisticly hard to put into place , but, I cant understand white America being so resistant to just evening out the playing feild..why cant black neighborhood schools have the same standards as white schools? Why do whites complain about affirmative action? There was and is discrimintion in job hiring, what is so hard about at least trying to even the playing feild?
There is a legacy of slavery, its in all the Americas, until white people can acknowledge the legacy of slavery and how it plays out into today, then there will always be a festering wound in our societies…it really does play out in the fabric of our societies, for that reason alone, white people should want to deal with these issues, just to heal the fabric of society…its the impresion they dont want to deal with these issues that just widens the devide between people
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“Why do whites complain about affirmative action? There was and is discrimintion in job hiring, what is so hard about at least trying to even the playing feild?”
*************
THAT’S a very good question B.R., especially since WHITE WOMEN (and by default their white husbands, boyfriends, fathers, sons, uncles, nephews, friends..) are the greatest/largest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action in the United States! They always have been, even before LBJ – or whomever – tried to do the right thing for people of color.
There’s quite the disconnect (DELUSION) amongst whites regarding their *enchanted perception* of who’s getting what (the idea of free AA govt hand-outs so called minorities are supposedly receiving at their expense) and the actual reality/truth.
Their zombie-like state/beliefs are so encompassing that they’re quick to vote against their own (unacknowledged economic AA) interests and advantages in an effort to maintain their zero-sum “playing field” aka racial advantage/status.
SMH
Where are the voices of all these whites who are interested in a level playing field???
All I hear are {{{CRICKETS}}}. In this case the crickets are whites that believe they’re getting a raw deal because they’re – white.
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[…] American Slavery […]
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Recent immigrants are just as culpable as those of us whites who have been here since the 18th century (when my ancestors were slave owners–see Shared History at http://www.sharedhistory.org.) And, of course, African Americans have been in the US since the beginning, building the economy and infrastructure. I’m a member of Coming To The Table (www.comingtothetable.org), which is trying to address on-going racism through its membership of descendants of the enslaved and slave owners. Check it out.
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Solesearch said this:
I couldn’t agree more. The problem is the same with racists in France, on the same topic. There favorite phrase is “Non à la repentance !” Nobody is asking them to repent, just to learn their history.
Matari and diaryofanegress.
I have no advice to give you. But I can say this: you are becoming like them. You say the EXACT same things.
You generalize, equate others with animals, decide once and for all that “it IS in their nature”.
That is EXACTLY what racism is about.
It’s sad. They got you in their mental trap.
Diaryofnegress
Have you never heard of internal wars in Africa BEFORE the Europeans invaded it ? All Africans are/were angels ? Never despised their neighbors ? Never attacked them ?
Woah… But I guess this is part of the whole scheme… deception…
Funny, “déception” in French means “disappointment”… I wonder what you really have been taught of pre-colonial African history. What a distortion of reality… How do you think such Empires as the Egyptian one get built ?
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Abagond, can you confirm or infirm this:
I didn’t see a sign on the door.
Thank you.
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What Matari and Diaryofanegress (and maybe others) are doing here, (apart from the fact that of course they have their opinion, which I actually do not respect in this very case), is participating in the manipulative scheme of racism.
They state from the very beginning that there is no way a person classified as “white” (even when that person rejects the classification, for purely and clearly political reasons, like me) cannot be racist.
So there is no way in a conversation with them that a person classified as “white” can express his/her anti-racism, because they have decided that in their nature they are racists, so they simply won’t acknowledge them for who they are.
I imagine they don’t expect people classified as “white” to learn about slavery, the enslavement of Africans. So what’s the point really, to discuss the topic ?
This idea is very prevalent, from what I have been able to notice and reflected in the mainstream attempt to press the fact that “Black history” is for “Blacks” to learn…
HELL NO !
The first people who MUST learn about slavery are people classified as “white”.
They LEARN to be racists, in their family, in their society, in their culture.
It is NOT in their nature. It is NOT in their genes.
There are places where other adults MUST teach them to counteract the racism and help them build critical thinking.
Their brains are were the learning happens. Once it’s learnt, it may difficult or impossible to delete. On that aspect of things, I agree with Dr Wright who Diaryofanegress mentioned somewhere else and who is mentioned in another post by Abagond. I also referred to that several times in the recent past.
Racists “suffer” from a personality trouble. In French it’s called: “Perversion Narcissique”. In English Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I am not a doctor, a psychiatrist, but I have had to deal with an individual like that and it just made it obvious to me that racists are like that.
The person I know who was like that is not among those classified as “white”.
It is NOT a genetic disease/trouble. It is learnt. It is linked to these people’s youth and the fact that they learnt to not care about others because they care too much about themselves (and often are taught to, hence the “narcissistic” aspect of their personality of many “white” children, and their careless cruelty to others).
Racists are indeed sick.
BUT not all people classified as “white” in the racial hierarchization of humans are racists.
Saying that is like spitting on the legacy and memory of those (many, but White Supremacy DOESN’T want us to know about them -otherwise it’s dead-, like those anonymously working in the Underground Railroad), like John Brown, who did what was right to fight racism.
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Good post. It is very important to understand that slavery did not imply race in the beginning. In Russia for example, there were feudal slaves in millions relatively late in 1800’s. Even Tolstoy has been said to owned some “souls”.
It is important because it shows that the racism was born, it was made, it was decided. This is the key. It is not natural condition of a humanbeings.
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“BUT not all people classified as “white” in the racial hierarchization of humans are racists.
Saying that is like spitting on the legacy and memory of those (many, but White Supremacy DOESN’T want us to know about them -otherwise it’s dead-, like those anonymously working in the Underground Railroad), like John Brown, who did what was right to fight racism.”
**********
I’ve never addressed you before, and it’s highly probable that I won’t again, (all knowing WHITE people that get up on their soap boxes and pontificate – DRONE ON *ENDLESSLY* to TEACH black people about who or what is racist makes me uncomfortable to say the least) but where did I ever use the word “all”?
I’ll say this again. Whiteness is demonic! It is not healthy (historically and currently) for Africans (wherever they may be) to be in the continually presence of European/Caucasians aka white people!
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Matari
Please save your energy. Just don’t engage them. You know, there is an actual entity on this planet that feeds on melanin. That’s why wherever you go, it goes. Have you noticed that we never go to them? Never engage them? Never approach them? It is NOT us that has this burning need to be around them.
In fact, we turn to cyberspace to get away from them. Yet they are always on our blogs, on YouTube videos, in our restaurants…desperate for some kind of physical and mental engagement.
Why?
Why are they always in our faces?
I thought we were cattle. I thought we were gator bait. Not good for anything but serving them. Why follow us around this planet? All you have to do to attract these entities is write the words:
melanin
Africa
Black
Masai
Moor
Dogon
Malcolm X
MLK
Rasta
And, like a moth to a flame, they appear!!!!
It’s almost amusing if it weren’t dangerous.
My African buddy has a shop/ class were she does Spiritual healing through African drumming. It’s packed with Caucasians. In fact, it’s soooo full of them constantly asking questions, the blacks in her store can’t benefit from her teachings.
Yurugu is indeed an incomplete entity. You are correct. That’s why they are constantly seeking out our “completeness” to make themselves whole. Please do not engage them. It is a trick to get you all riled up and angry so they can feed.
Ignore them.
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@cornlia nice
@truthbetold some of us live in big cities and try to get along with everybody
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Cornlia, I am in agreement with Matari , in this sence, I dont think the people brought over in slavery and subjected to the racism that , as you have stated, was invented by the white people and then the invention of races, can be racist since they are the victoms and the recipiants of this racism…Matari has stated that black Americans could be biased and bigoted, but, not racist…which rings true for me…I dont think black people can be racist while back peddling to defend themselves
And, I dont blame any black American for having their own defence about how to deal with it….for sure if they are not hurting anyone else, they can defend against it in their own mind anyway that works for them…It may not be what I would like, but, I cant honestly say just go out and trust any white person out there.
You keep basing your position around this logic you talk about, you keep going back to it and seeing everything through that prism…the Atlantic and Arab slave trade are about the laws of chaos in the universe, there is no logic to dealing with the laws of chaos but to survive it…if that means carefully stepping into situations that are white dominated, with a good antenna in place, or , simply not wishing to deal with white people at all, or , how can I even be shocked that a black American could just plain hate whites? I dont have to agree, I dont have hang my head and walk in shame because the Nation of Islam in Chicago said all white people are devils…but, I can be in the grey area, and there are lots of black Americans in the grey area, working with white people, having relationships, interacting…there is no one monolithic “black American” position or way to act. Noone, black or white ,is going to get elbow length in my face and bluster to me about my interracial relationship with my family, that is where their right to feel a certain way ends
but, you have to let go of some of the logic and understand the law of chaos
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Matari.
I agree with that:
I am not trying to “teach” you or others anything.
I’m just saying that your extreme view of “race” is what extreme views are: disrespectful of people who are trying to NOT play with a dominating system.
That’s all.
I hope one day one come across a non-racist person classified as “white” in the manipulative system called white supremacy, and will understand what I am saying.
B.R. they can’t be racist because they are the victims of a racist system, agreed.
However, when they start thinking in the same exact manner, the seed of racism start to sprout. And they will be in trouble. But my opinion stops there. It is their problem. I will and I do fight them like I do all racists. I cannot let someone call someone else a monkey or a good and I cannot let someone call me or anyone a pig or a dog (as it has happened a few times, only on the net, never in person). Even racists are humans, sick humans, but humans, not animals.
This type of thinking was never prevalent or even visible just a few years ago. Maybe it corresponds to what our Race Theory professor said is designated by -mostly “Black”- sociologists as “Liberation Rage”. They explain that as more “freedom” occurs, the younger generations cannot stand the fact that there is still so much to do and express in ways that are “extreme”.
And by the way, B.R. I never said you were racist (other thread). I’ll formulate what I mean some other time, after I have had time to re-read other threads.
Peace.
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disrespectful of people who are trying to NOT play with a dominating system.
Who cares about being ‘respectful’ to those whites trying not to play with the white supremacist system? I sure as he** don’t, along with many others here. Are we supposed to be grateful that there is a miniscule amount of whites who are not trying to play with the system? They and their ilk can go play in the traffic for all I care. They effect nothing whatsoever.
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Oh and, B.R. I’m not “blaming” anyone. I even said it that way somewhere “I can’t blame you”. (Because I know what white supremacy is about)
When someone says “it’s in their nature”, they are traveling the way to racism.
I invite anyone to prove otherwise. I have not been fighting racists most of my life to end up accepting this type of thinking because it comes from “blacks” or anyone else. It is not acceptable. Even though it is *understandable”, considering, as you put it, what “blacks” have been through in the Americas, in the US in particular.
If it is acceptable, then racists are okay. No problem, they can go on saying it’s in “black” people’s nature to be stupid, ignorant, monkeys, sexually extroverted, whatever BS they invented about Africans.
Racism is the naturalization/biologization of attitudes. It denies the importance of culture, learning, teaching… It states that people are the way they are because of their “nature”.
That’s what Matari was doing in very clearly put terms.
I have my logic, they have theirs. B.R., why is my “prism” a problem ? I am taking racism and analyzing it, and racism is what it is. It’s not one thing for one person and another for another. It’s the same for everyone.
The Atlantic Trade and Arab trade are certainly not about the “laws of the Universe”, what ever that means to you, but about the laws of some men (the rich minority in Europe and formerly in the Arab world) who decided they would use Africans as slaves in their newly invaded territories in the whole world.
They had been using Caucasians (what an irony) to grow cane sugar in the Mediterannean before that, and the Turkish/Ottomans stopped the flow of those slaves (including women for the brothels and harems around the same sea). When that flow stopped, they turned to Africans and invented laws to reduce their beings to mere goods. That’s not the laws of the Universe and it was not chaos at all ! It was very well organized and was all the more inadmissible and horrible.
Which is why I can understand that “blacks” cannot trust “whites” (as Adeen put it in another thread).
B.R., can you PLEASE stop interpreting what I say in your own terms, based on whatever you think I think ?
I NEVER said I’m SHOCKED. I’m NOT shocked. I very well know that what Matari and others are expressing is one the results of being oppressed. I do understand why they do that. I don’t ACCEPT it. Because it is not acceptable. That’s all.
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I would like to say “Thank God my ancestors escaped to Canada’, but I would be bullshi**ing the lot of you!
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Herneith, “respectful” is not the same as “grateful”.
Nobody asks anyone here to be grateful.
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@Cornla:
You don’t have to, your patronizing simpering tone says it all. I didn’t write respect and grateful have the same meaning. I ain’t grateful nor am I respectful. Please, stop lecturing to the culluds, please!
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Patronizing and lecturing…Hmm, so expressing my views on racism is what it is. So good for racists. Just let them rule. They know what patronizing and lecturing is about. They have been practicing it in the high spheres of white supremacy for three centuries.
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Diaryofanegress, nothing here (Abagond) says “Forbidden to “whites””.
I am not going to address anyone here who tells me they don’t *like* me because I’m classified as “white”. I won’t let the craziness of racial beliefs interact with my sanity.
I could also pass as “black” if I wanted to. I bet there are people who do that, pass as others. It’s very easy to copy “cliché” discourses.
So, if you don’t wish me to interact with you, just say it, and I won’t. I do the same with white supremacists who call me traitor. I ignore racists too.
But I fight their ideology, on the political level. And I practice repetition (yes yes B.R.) because that’s what they do too. That’s how they imposed their vision and rule.
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@Herenith and Matari
P.S. white people feel it is their duty to tell us how we should interpret race and racism.
I thought you peeps knew that already!!
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@ Cornlia
I agree that racism is learned, but I also agree with Matari and Herneith that non-racist whites are rare, at least in English-speaking North America.
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@ Cornlia
I welcome all commenters. I want as many different points of view interacting as possible – so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
On the other hand, I do not write this blog for white people. I am not here to hold their hand. I am not seeking their apologies, understanding, enlightenment, page hits or anything. That is a waste of time because most of them are trying hard NOT to understand me. They do it so much I have written posts about it (the Broken Record arguments).
More:
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Will racism be done one day? I hope so. The difficulty is that it is a system with in a system, or part of the system. And that system is based on unequality of all, regardless of the skin color or ethnicity. With in that framework racism is a handy tool. It is a way to conquer and divide, and, just like Big Bill Tweed said almost 150 years ago, a way to “hire the other half of the poor to fight the other half”.
For me personally the main thing about racism is that it is man made. It is an ideology made up by men. It is not God given, it is not biological (even though racists wish it was), it is not even in most cultures. There fore it can be destroyed by men, people just like us.
Racism, the hierarchy of so-called races, is garbage from scientific point of view. There is only one human race on this planet. That is a scientifict fact. Period. There is no way around this fact. It is just a fact. To claim anything else is racism. And to claim anything racist is, well, unreasonable, superstitious, make believe. A Fantasy.
Historically the american slavery differs from many other forms of slavery around the world. The egyptians, assyrians, europeans, romans, greeks, the french and even brittish, russians etc. all had slaves of same “race”. Slave was not from another race. Slave was just a slave who could be any “race”. Slave could be a former neighbour of yours who had been condemned to slavery for some crime or reason.
In Americas, not just in north America, slavery became very fast connected to this imaginary race. When the europeans first became aware there were alien people living across the ocean in the west, they imagined for a moment that they had found the lost paradise and the children of Adam and Eve. That lasted about a nano second and the reason was the same as today: money.
Natives had to be enslaved for economical reasons en masse. For the majority of the people back home that was not reason enough so something had to be invented. Okay, some european slaves were sent over in the 1500’s and 1600’s but they were no good. If they escaped they became a threat as buccaneers and pirates. That is, if they survived that long. Most of them died in couple of years in tropics. So they could not be imported in big numbers enough. And the natives were dying in alarming numbers so they had to be made into slaves till the very last one.
Somebody somewhere came up with the idea that those natives were not actually humanbeings. So if they were dying by thousands that was not like killing whole nations of people. Yeah, they were not real humanbeings. Actually, they were living in a state of continuing sin, right church? Yes, and so they are actually the people of the devil, so…
Around this time some people came up with the race as an excuse of slavery and genocide and exploitation. And it was used more and more as an excuse when the mass importation of african slaves began into Caribbean and later into Americas proper. It was refined, defined, developed and used again and again all over the place to justify conquering, mass murdering, robbing and stealing. All that could be done because the racism explained why it was ok.
So the american slavery became about the race. At first even in north America the natives were made to be slaves in some cases but the real slave economy was based on african slaves. Thus, racist ideology had to be ingrained into that system from very early on. It gave to that slave economy justification and explanation.
Perhaps the high point of classical racism was the Belgian Congo, private domain of king Leopold, which promted Joseph Condrad write The Heart of Darkness. 3 million people died because of it. Classical racism was evident in its purest form in the german occupied Namibia too.
The high point of racism was of course nazism and its system of racial defining, cathegorising and industrial murdering of the people believed belong to an non human race. Jews, gypsies or the romani, slavs, anybody who did not make the racial grade was to be murdered to the last individual. All the other were destined to become slaves of the nazis. They had slavery going on in the Third Reich during the war years already. Luckily for all of us they did not win. Their job was cut short. And that was only plus 60 years ago.
But in USA racism did not dissappear after the slavery became illegal. Why? Because the system that needed it never went away. Racism was needed. It was a tool to be used against all the poor and down trodden. The poor white trash hated blacks who hated latinos who hated them back who hated the asians, all of whom hated the native americans. So much racial suspicion, division, hatred, that even today those people do not get along. And for the very same reason that they were divided in the first place: somebody does not want you to unite. Never.
Somebody is making money with this status quo. Somebody is benefiting from this racial hatred. Go ahead, hate each other you dumb, and we will pay you salary less than you can live with. We make you work hours which deprive you from your life. We will make you pay for everything. Even from your death. We will make you buy our products, while working for us 12 hours a day with a salary that ables you barely to stay alive and travel to the work. Just like in a plantation where you worked on the fields, lived in the huts, ate the food and dressed in the clothes which your master gave to you. You were just allowed to live to work for the benefit of the few. Just like today.
And you keep hating the blacks, jews, whites, chinese, mexicans, germans, italians, irish, natives, women, lesbians, gays, foreigners, muslims, canadians, the french, the amish, jazz musicians, artists, writers, commies, hippies, rappers, tap dancers and river dancers…
That is why racism survived the slavery in USA.
BUT it must be remembered that is is all man made. It is not Gods will. It is not the human condition. It is not based on “racial qualities” or “racial factors”. It is a make believe. This, my friends, gives us the hope we need and the weapons we have to use. The hope is in the fact that it is just one idea of men, just like all of those which have dissappeared into the waste basket of history. The weapons are our minds and words, our examples and deeds. We just have to oppose racism every day, every way in all situations.
When a racial slur creeps into our lips, we must stop it. When a racist thought pops into our minds we must stop and wipe it off. We must stop to pretend that there is no racism and we must realise that we all suffer from the same syndrome, sickness, a culture which is saturated by racism. That is the only way.
And we must also realise that it was only 68 years ago when the most powerful and destructive racist ideology and state was crushed. It is a short time in history. So we must understand that it is us, we, who are still only at the beginning of this fight.
Racism as we know it has been around some 360 years. We have been fighting against it only less than 170 years. This is still just the second quarter. The whole game is ahead of us. But we must do our part if we wish to win this game. The other side will use every trick in the playbook. We must not give them a yard, not a single free kick, free downs, fumbles etc. They will take advantage of all of those.
It will be a long frustrating fight but in the end they will loose. Just like they always have. They lost in late 1700’s remember: freedom, brotherhood and equality. They lost in 1865. They lost in 1945. And they will loose this one too.
Sorry about the preaching again.
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Thanks Abagond and I agree with you that non-racist “whites” are extremely rare. In the US/North America and elsewhere. They are very hard to find. I haven’t encountered many outside of internet. It is very difficult to have an honest and uncomplicated discussion on racism with most of them. They always feel they are personally attacked by reproaches made in general in relation to racism/history, which reveals their personal racism.
Also, concerning your second reply, I HOPE MANY of them stumble on your blog and learn.
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Phoebeprunelle.
Who invented racism and race ? Is it not my ancestors who defined themselves as “white” ?
People who think of themselves as “white” know what racism is. It is what they do. They know it. Recognizing it would shatter their privileged world. They are aware of that. That’s why they prevent non-racists from having a large venue to express themselves.
So they know very well why they maintain “race” as the core engine of their political system of domination. They are not idiots, they are cruel monsters.
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this is one of those who Herneith say
http://www.marilynbuck.com/
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/open-forum/42782-marilyn-buck-r-i-p.html
“Marilyn Buck was a former political prisoner and prisoner of war. Along with Mutulu Shakur, she was responsible for the liberation of Assata Shakur from prison in 1979. She later went underground.”
Was she racist “by nature” ?
She was another John Brown, standing against white supremacy and all its political tools.
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This was were I learnt about her today (because even when you look for info about these people, it’s very difficult to find them. These info are hidden to those who don’t have previous knowledge.
I saw this posted on Paradise Gray’s FB profile:
http://alicewalkersgarden.com/2013/05/sister-assata-this-is-what-american-history-looks-like/
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And to complete this list of people who do not fit the “racial profiling” of “nature”.
What about Check Anta Diop’s choice as a wife ? Does it make him a “sell-out” ? One of the greatest contemporary African thinkers ? His wife was French and what racism calls “white”. Does it take away everything he has done and taught ?
Wtheck. Some idiots do think they have the background, brains, knowledge and courage (!) of Anta Diop and dare insult him and his work because of his wife:
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T2H8R2A2MEO4AV100
Some people really need to think before they talk. And sound like complete ignorants.
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Sam, I learnt in “The History of White People” by Nell Irvin Painter something that our history books in France had never -dared- tell me: that there were slaves on Mediterranean island who were used to grow… sugar cane !
That was before the Ottomans/Turks stopped the flow of slaves (slavic/slave) from the Caucasus (another thing Americans believe in as if it were the Holy Bible’s word, that Europeans are “Caucasians”), in particular women from the Georgian region who were thought to be beautiful and were used in brothels and harems around the same sea.
So when they saw their source of slaves (all the rich people around the Mediterranean, like the Venetians) was running dry, they turned to Africa, while using the recent attempts at classifying -at first without hierarchy but simply as a scientific classification, by Blumenbach for instance, who is the one who used the word Caucasian for “whites” because from the relation of travelers, – to justify the transatlantic deportation of Africans and their generational enslavement, which was something never seen before, as you described it.
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Cornlia, the law of chaos would be experianced by those being enslaved, not the ones doing it
Exactly because racism is abstract, is why it demands illogical individual solutions , as they deal with it individualy in each ones own life situations…I dont look to black Americans to be logical in dealing with racism, I look to them to do what ever they can to survive it
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@cornilia:
Slavery was normal in France in 1500’s and 1600’s, there were lot of white slaves in France and else where in Europe too. And as always, it was economical reasons which kept up slavery in some form or another. The mighty Roman Empire rested on slavery of all sorts, but in Rome a slave could become a powerful individual. Some of the highly educated slaves of the emperors became de facto rulers for moments in that empire, usually of greek origin etc.
American slavery, on the other hand, was based on racial explanation and reasoning from very early on. That is why racism is still so big part of the whole system of the society and why its shadow hangs so heavy above it all. That is why it has been re-vigorated and re-designed over there again and again.
As for Herneith and her comments, as well as other comments about white do-gooders, I understand them well. Of course they know that there has been some whites who have opposed racism and racist systems. But what irritates them, I assume, is that some whites hijack this agenda and use it to lift themselves up in a moral playground. “Look at me, I’m a good person when I oppose racism!”. “Look at me, I’m a good person because I have a black friend!”. “I’m not a racist because I like black music”. “Black women are sexy soI am not a racist”. That sort of stuff.
For some whites a struggle against racism is a “cool thing”. It is something to be done at college, in university etc. It is separated from rest of the political thinking which, naturally, makes it a pale imitation of the real thing. It is almost a hobby like thing to do when one wishes to feel good about him/herself. For a white individual living in a racist system there is always a way out, door is always open, you can always take a break. If for any reason you want to stop activism or what ever you are doing, you can. Just chance clothes, put the signs away, and PING: you are “normal” again. Blacks do not have that option.
If you notice, none of them mock those white activists in South Africa who belonged to ANC during its undedrground period, some of whom were tortured etc. Why is that? Well, those whites put their money where their mouth is. They fought the fight. They took the hits, whips, rubber bullets, and they fought, litterally. They were branded as terrorists by the apartheid machinery and also by the US government. Just like those whites who were called renegades when they joined the native americans in their fight for freedom and their lands, and who were killed on the spot if ever caught, if they were lucky.
As a white individual one has to understand this: I am not black. Period. I have no idea what it is to be black. I have no idea how racism shows itself to black person. So I can not say that I understand how it feels. Of course I can not say that. I have no idea of any of that. BUT I can understand racism is wrong. It is unjust. It is an ideology based on unequality and opression. I can take a stand against it. I can fight against it. That is what a white individual can do. That is what white individual should do.
And one thing: never ever think that racism is not political. It is.
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@ Sam you said “…Okay, some european slaves were sent over in the 1500′s and 1600′s but they were no good. If they escaped they became a threat as buccaneers and pirates. That is, if they survived that long. Most of them died in couple of years in tropics. So they could not be imported in big numbers enough.”
Are you saying then the 30-40 thousand Irish sent over as slaves by Oliver Cromwell is false? Or are you saying the 30-40 thousand Irish sent over were black people?
Also you said “…And the natives were dying in alarming numbers so they had to be made into slaves till the very last one.”
This has been the accepted belief misconstrued as truth when it comes to the fate of the Native American. It was in fact not a physical killing off of the Native American, but a paper work killing of the Native. In the case of the Montauk people the courts killed the Native by stating the Montauk are too dark to be “Indians” and these people were then renamed Black/Negro/African when they were not. Additionally, Walter Ashbey Plecker “killed” our people by re-writing Native birth certificates, changing them from Indian to Black/Negro/African.
Lastly, Black’s Law Dictionary 4th edition defines a Negro as one who is chattel property. The Negro in U.S. law has nothing to do with skin color, race or ethnicity.
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@amenta:
30-40 000 irish was a small number. They brought millions of black africans once that trade got going.
I am sure that some native americans were put on the record as blacks but it still does not explain other millions who dissappeared. I know it is now fashionable today to deny the genocide and total destruction of native nations across Americas but I don’t buy that. They were killed by the scores in every imaginable ways. Tens of thousands perished on mines and plantations, tens of thousands perished on warfare etc. New germs and destruction of their livelyhoods killed off millions. It really did happen.
If you are saying that skin color or ethnicity did not mean anything in the slavery system, well, then why so many blacks and historians today think so?? I would very much like to hear your explanation on that one.
You really do mean that blacks were not defined as slaves in North America, in the South that is?? Then what was the abolotion of slavery all about?? How come there were so many black slaves and practically none white??
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See what is occuring between us is a matter of opposings beliefs. It seems quite improbable the white Eurpean was that capable to transport millions across the Atlantic. I do believe he did transport some Africans to the American shores but never millions, not even hundreds of thousands. He was/is blood thirsty and very bellicose and tricky. In that case he was able to exploit the people living on this contenent and used us to fight against ourselves. It was much much cheaper to utilize the blacks living in the Americas as slaves than it would have been to transport them on a two to three month voyage. The belief that the Indian died easily and the mighty African was able to withstand the harsh treatment smacks of some form of superiority, as if to say the African was stronger than the Indian.
I dropped some names as in the case of the Montauk and Plecker as just a drop in the bucket of people that changed and committed the Native American to death on paper. There were many many more people and cases not only in the U.S. but in the Caribbean as well where the original indigenous people were “killed” on paper and transformed into black/negro/African.
I am saying that the word Negro in law has nothing to do with color. I am saying yes there were many many people we understand as white that were enslaved, especially Irish and Scottish. Some historians believe this was one of the issues that loomed in the Civil War, that too many whites were being enslaved.
Do I believe blacks were defined as slaves in the North and South? No. I do not believe blacks were defined as slaves. All black people were not slaves and some never were. I believe the vast majority of the enslaved were what we recognize as black today however I would never venture to say blacks were defined as slaves.
Why do you believe that practically no slaves were white? At one point in the U.S. there were over 6,000 black slave owners in business from the North to the South that owned slaves for profit of their business. They did not just buy their relatives out of bondage. The abolition of slavery was about how those that control the money would prepare the U.S. for the upcoming change in the economy. Automation vs human production.
This disease business that killed “indians” would have been the same germs that killed off Africans. This disease business would have killed off the few “indians” that were snatched by Christobol Colon and taken back to Spain. This disease business would have killed off the many “indians” that went to Europe of their own volition, and yet upon their return they would have brought back the disease with them. Now, really, does that story make since? Who are the historians that are teaching this? Are they not primarily European? Any way I feel you, I used to believe just like you. I no longer believe so easily. I have to think about their story given to us as his-story and understand why he would deliver such a story.
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The numbers are documented Amenta. In the administrative archives of great port cities in Europe. They documented them for insurance and revenue purposes, in particular.
Why revise that part of history when it is actually documented ?… That’s a type of revisionism I had never read about before.
They didn’t care how many Africans died in the boats, because they were insured. They KNEW they would have around half of the “goods”, as the Code Noir in France called Africans, die during the trip.
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Sam,
I say the same things as you all the time… (every other thing you said in your reply to me. I am 100% on the same line)
My point in this thread was simply that racism is racism, whichever way you take it and whoever expresses it.
White supremacy is the expression of racism by those who are defined as “white” and accept it as such, don’t question or reject it. White supremacy is the only expression of racism that has coerced other into power so far. That’s why I say that “blacks” cannot be racist in the sense of oppressing other people with the enforcement of that ideology. But, I say that one has to be careful not to enter the same way of thinking by implying that “race” is nature. It is not. As you said, and that is ESSENTIAL to racism: it is political. It is an ideology applying in policies. Written policies. And cultural habits derivated from those policies and laws that allow the expression of racism. Yes, it is totally that, with a false basis of supposed biological facts that would determine people’s characters. That’s exactly what I am saying.
I agree with the posters that racism is also a disease in the sense that allowing that behavior and not punishing it (by law) is making it into behaviors that are profoundly AND deliberately asocial, thereby upsetting the social balance to their unfair and cruel advantage. But this impact/result still has its roots in politics: allowing some people to do whatever they wish based on the “race” they supposedly belong to.
About slavery in Europe, are you talking about the “serfs” ? In their case, the group of people who were allowed the exploitation of other people by law were the aristocrats preceded with the feudal cast of “Seigneurs”. The aristocrats “blue-blood” nonsense later evolved into the “white race” nonsense.
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@cornilia:
Yep, I do not get where Amenta is getting his “information”.
When I talk about white slaves in Europe, I am not talking about serfs. I am litterally talking about slaves in mines, farms, factories, galleons in Mediterannean etc. They really did have white slaves. In Russia still in 1800’s the great estates had white slaves just like americans had black slaves by the millions. In similar conditions, dying and in chains and at the mercy of their masters.
@amenta:
You do know the ethymology of the Negro? You do know that it litterally means Black? So if some one was written in document as Negro, he/she became black at that second. So the word Negro mean litterally black. That is why I’m havin a bit problem with your statement that Negro did not mean black, when it litterally does mean excately that as a word.
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@Cornlia I don’t understand how one is confident that the white European operates in a system of white supremacy and racism, then goes on to cite the white supremacist’s records and documents as proof positive of who we really are as indegenous black people of this planet. Why revise it? Since we know these people are working for their supremacy and race (of which I am totally aware is a social construct) then why utiize their story as proof? Unless we need this story of a trans atlantic slave trade for someother motive.
@ Sam. Yes I understand the etymology of the word negro. However, Slavery in the U.S. was based on laws and when looking at slavery we must consider it’s legal aspect. I was specific when I said the legal definition of the word negro as defined in Black’s Law Dictionary’s is not based on color but, ownership. A negro, in the U.S., in the legal definition of the word was anyone that was owned by another.
Where I am going it that we, black people, were already here in the Americas. And the largest population of people enslaved were the Americans as defined by Webster’s dictionary, 1828 edition as the “COPPER colored RACES of the people found in the Americas…” To believe you are from some country in Africa and not the Americas leaves one in limbo. I brought up the many whites enslaved in the Americas to show that history is just that HIS-story and they spin it anyway they want including hiding the fact that whites where slaves in the Americas.
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@amenta:
Ok, so you are saying that there were blacks in the area of the present day USA before whites and that whites were slaves??
I think all the historians know that there were white slaves too, also in Americas. I think that is nothing new for any serious historian or anyone familiar with history. But I must admit I am still not convinced. I think the majority of the slaves were blacks and that is a historical fact too. It is not based on some ones ideas or feelings. It is based on records which there are plenty of all over the USA even today.
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interesting, I never read Joanne Chesimard/Assata Shakur’s side of her arrest before, or the details of her incarceration. be interesting to find some corroboration. she’s got quite a web page, I find the political situation between Cuba and the US with regards to her continued residence down there most intriguing. Not sure what the big push is with regards to her reward getting upped and making the top 10.
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Its time for a complete reevaluation of the whole slavery narrative. The whole story is WAAYYYYY exaggerated. Blacks owned slaves both white and black. Most were actually white Irish. Proportionally more blacks than whites owned slaves.
Its extremely important to accept this since I notice the standard slavery narrative is responsible for much negative emotion that derails every post in here.
http://karanjazplace.blogspot.com/2013/01/slavery-wasnt-black-thing-2.html
Can we at least TRY to look at this afresh?
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Kay:
I dont think anyone would deny that servitude/slavery was a thing that just ‘white’ people did however, can you honestly say that the effects of black on white slavery continue to have such pervasive and far reaching consequences as they continue to for black people?
If so, enlighten the blog and give examples.
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Omni:
My point is that the whole black slavery narrative has imprisoned all of us! We constantly paint ourselves as victims yet we were also slaveowners. If you read the link it shows how the main slave demographic were white Irish.
A reevaluation of early American slaveholding patterns would force a complete reevaulation of the central tenets of everything we think we know about history mainly-how did all those blacks reach the Americas?
Hint:it was directly connected to the 30 years war and the fact that many black Americans share native American dna.
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[…] American slavery […]
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Is a serious question still allowed here?
“Except for the land, slaves were the main form of wealth in America. The top 10% of slave owners owned 93% of the wealth in the South. Of the richest people in America, two-thirds were slave owners.”
These are great figures, and I would like to quote them (with any needed permission) but they do not have a year attached. Is there a way to attach a year to either statement?
(I am a composer writing a work for education and church which has a US narrative component. Serious replies only, please)
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Should Jews Have To Pay Reparations for Slavery?
Looking Back 150 Years, Jewish Record Far From Admirable
Uncivil Behavior? Judah P. Benjamin served as the Confederate Secretary of War.
By Richard Kreitner
The Jewish Daily Forward (NY) January 30, 2015
http://forward.com/articles/213776/should-jews-have-to-pay-reparations-for-slavery/
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Sounds like a load of bollocks to me, still whatever floats your boat kid.
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Thanks for the review. I’ll have to read this book. I also recommend the movie ‘CSA Confederate States of America” made in 2004 in England. It’s ‘what if the South won the Civil War’. It’s both hilarious and chilling.
Raymond Horton Composer, Arranger Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016
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Thank you for your review. Read the book , also. I finished it, mostly intrigued by the premise, not as much impressed by the outcome of the book. I expected more, somehow. Perhaps if something had changed in the status of the hard four states, perhaps. But I found it an intriguing read.
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https://blackmainstreet.net/never-forget-devils-punchbowl-20000-freed-slaves-died-forced-post-slavery-concentration-camp/
Never Forget: The Devil’s Punchbowl – 20,000 Freed Slaves Died After Being Forced Into Post Slavery Concentration Camp
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Thanks for the link, nomad. What a story!
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[…] via American slavery […]
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European criminals and other undesirables were dumped in America in 1620. Its was so called whites not Americans (who have been labeled black) that where Indentured Servants and slaves including runaway slave Ben Franklin who was owned by his own brother as a indentured servant! Tell the Truth
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