In America black men married to white women account for 70% of all black-and-white marriages. Among married black men in 2010, one in 12 had a white wife.
Things that increase the chances that a black man will marry outside his race (mostly, but not always, to a white woman):
- military service
- university education
- living in a part of the country with few blacks, like New England
The racial and sexual stereotypes in America make it seem like the best possible match: white women are seen as the most beautiful while black men are seen as the most manly.
That picture, though, is more the creation of fear than fact. White men have long feared that black men would take “their” women, given the chance. So much so that they imagine that black men have larger penises – and make sure to keep black men at the bottom of society.
According to OkCupid, an American online dating website with over a half million users, black men have the second worse reply rate to their messages – only Asian Indian men have worse luck.
But for black women with a university degree, the loss of black men with the same or better education to white women is considerable and not imagined.
America is racist enough where such matches are not going to be simply a matter of love and “preferences”. Other things too seem to draw black men to white women:
- stereotypes about white women: black men have the same sort of stereotypes about out-group women that most men do: out-group women become a blank slate onto which men can project their fantasies. The anti-black racism of society strengthens these stereotypes. White women are often seen as:
- Easier to get along with – more easy-going, more accepting, less demanding, less insecure, less pig-headed, less concerned about money, less using, less disagreeable. As some would put it, they are “easier to control”. Here the Sapphire stereotype works against black women.
- Easier to get into bed – always a virtue with out-group women, never a virtue with in-group ones.
- More willing to please their man – Sounds like more male fantasy projection, though, oddly enough, black men do give white women a better chance of marrying up in terms of money.
- internalized racism – or what some call self-hatred. The “white is right” brainwashing in America leads black men to overvalue white women and undervalue black women. Examples:
- white ideas of beauty – most certainly do affect many black men, whitening their idea of female beauty.
- status symbol – Successful black men do go for white women to a shocking degree. It is not just a media stereotype. Keep in mind, though, that they live in a much whiter world than most blacks.
As far as I can tell, “Easier to get along with” seems to be the main reason given, though internalized racism and whitened ideas of beauty are bound to be a big part of it too.
See also:
I’m interested in seeing where the comments go on this topic.
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@Abagond,
This is an interesting post and something that I’ve always wondered about. I know that on my end, I don’t see anything unique about white women that would make them the one on the pedestal, but then I have seen that the sexism leveled at white women was twisted into a way to both elevate them over women of color and also impose a sexist beauty standard.
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Reggie Bush is fine! I don’t know what he saw in Kim Kardashian in the first place. Btw, is Kim Kardashian considered “white”? Some people don’t think she is white per se.
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I think Heidi Klum and Seal would’ve made a better pictured couple. Kim and Reggie weren’t married.
Many black people are bothered by this pairing (see Bossip), but I am not.
Of course, what I have issues with are the negative assumptions made about these pairings. I just do not know enough to assume things. Yet, I cannot rule out any of the reasons you have given.
I think this post has the potential to get nasty.
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You are right about the way white men perceive black male sexuality. For white men, it is threatening and admirable. On one hand, they see black men as ideally masculine with large penises, and they admire or aspire to that, but on the other hand, they are paranoid about black men stealing white women, and their inability to compete with black men sexually.
It has led to the lynching of black men for hundreds of years, but also the empowering of black men (through sports).
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Part of what I found fascinating about this post is that, with just changing a few words, it could have just as easily been titled “White Men, Asian Women.”
There is certainly a lot to be said regarding the fantasy projections on out-group women.
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@Mel:
Yes, I agree Heidi Klum and Seal would’ve been better as a BM/WM pairing.
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It also happens in the Asian community, or at least where I come from, that WW are considered easy. I’m not saying this is true, but this is from what I’ve heard others say about WW.
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Oops, typo in a previous comment. I mean Heidi Klum and Seal would’ve been a better example of a BM/WW pairing.
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If being easy to get along with is the most prominent answer, which I do not believe, then what does that say about the man in question?
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Aba,
Have you ever thought about the simple fact that black men do not want black children?
Having a light complexion is seen as desirable in this country.
You will have an easier time blending in, better job offers and don’t forget the jolt of egotism from the parents at having a beautiful child.
I admit that in my own family, my butterscotch coloured skin was favoured by many than my mocha and chocolate coloured siblings.
And yes, I agree that this post WILL get very nasty.
Better stock up on the aspirin now.
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abagond,
If you were to check out Youtube.com there have been and are several videos made by black men addressing the problems with black women. If you were to check some of them out, you can hear the self-hatred of blackness as some black men also have disdain for black people in the ghetto.
One name that certainly comes to mind is a vlogger called Sgt. Willie Pete. He made literally hundreds of videos of bashing black women and how blacks from the ghetto are screwed up. He can never accept that history played a part in the conditions blacks are in now, not to mention why some black people including himself have internalized racism. Pete’s main theme seemed to be black women who are into thugs. He trashed Lauren London when she made this comment in King Magazine:
Pete was gaining success until he had one show where a white guy said something racist about black women, and he AGREED with him. That was the start of his downfall. As a result, he is banned from several video sites, including Youtube, but he’s still making videos on Generation X.
I dunno. It’s just maddening to hear black men come down hard on black women because of the negative stereotypes associated with black women. I can only conclude that these dudes are scorned. Something happened in their lives to make them dislike black women and black people in general. It’s like they want to be distanced as far away from blackness as possible. In some cases they go to white women as a way of escaping the reality of being black in America.
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Truthbetold,
“I agree that this post WILL get very nasty. Better stock up on the aspirin now.”
I’m way ahead of ya.
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Have you ever thought about the simple fact that black men do not want black children?
Having a light complexion is seen as desirable in this country.
You will have an easier time blending in, better job offers and don’t forget the jolt of egotism from the parents at having a beautiful child.
– Truthbetold
I agree. It’s like we (Black folks in the Western world) forget that we are a conquered and colonized people and we bare the psychological scars from this. Now, we have made some great ground in healing ourselves (esp. in comparison to Blacks in Central and South America) but we still have work to do.
The way I see the issue especially where educated, famous, and wealthy Black men are concerned, the appeal of white women or non-Black women or biracial women is due to economics. Many of these Black men want status symbols and now have the financial means to get that attractive white, non-Black, or biracial woman.
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Abagond,
You missed the two mostly likely answers for why black men go for white woman:
Imperial-mindedness, as the black man is very much at war with the white man.
And…
Radical sexual autonomy. The black man believes he can simply satisfy himself sexually in any manner he chooses. White women are in abundance and simply represent a different manner in which to sexually gratify oneself.
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^lol
exactly!
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Ahhhhhh….it begins!
This is where I say, ” Good night, all.”
I won’t stomach the ( mostly) white commentor’s bile on this topic.
I
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a fun fact the media won’t tell you
5-8 percent of black men marry white women
in 2010 390,000 Black men marry white women
a little over 4 million black men marry black women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States
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@ CJ-canadian,
If they were actually realistic about those numbers in the media, Black women wouldn’t have the inferiority complexes that they want them to have. What better way to divide a race than by using the men to hurt the women?
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Interracial Con Game by Umoja sheds a lot of light on this topic, as well as Excuses, Excuses by Mwalimu Baruti.
The truth has many angles. Often black women remind black men of their failures- which is not always easy to face. But it is necessary to face- and fix.
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I once had a black flatmate who exclusively dated white women.
His stated rationale? They were easier to get and easier to get along with.
A caveat though: he wasn’t referring to all white women, just the ones who dated black guys.
The strategy worked like this: we’d go to a bar (never a club) where there were no other black people, ensuring that he’d be the only “cool black guy”. A certain type of white woman would either come over to chat, or else indicate receptiveness.
If this didn’t occur, or if there were any other black folks, he’d want to leave. From my observation, this technique for identifying and exploiting that niche market was rather successful.
I asked why he never dated black women, and he said that they placed “expectations” on him which white women who were drawn to the “cool black guy” wouldn’t.
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Radical sexual autonomy… De facto homo-ism… The belief that one may have sexual relations with anyone AND anything he pleases. Even himself. Self-sexualizer. Self-annihilator.
Now, how many here ACTUALLY REJECT radical sexual autonomy???
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i dont mind bm dating ww but just dont talk crap about bw while doing it.
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
NOW, how many here ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT MUtha-FREAKING RADICAL SEXUAL AUTONOMY IS!!!???
****watches eco wave confederate flag solemnly******
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The irony of it all is that this is the MOST unstable pairing and has a divorce rate twice the rate of White men/White women (Which is nearing 50%).
What is the MOST stable pairing with a divorce rate 44% LESS than White men/ White women??? Black Women and White Men.
This is something black women should think of when considering marriage…the rate of divorce for blacks marrying each other is around 70%…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States#Black_and_White
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Abagond,
What do you think of Ralph Richard Banks (Stand for Law Professor) book titled, “Is Marriage for White People”?
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“Have you ever thought about the simple fact that black men do not want black children?”
Very, very, true. Even so-called Black Nationalists love them some non-white women. Sad.
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Abagond,
You can see that in your formulation black men go after white woman for essentially unconscious reasons. They are simply products of external forces. Even the notion of the black man seeking status by claiming a white woman suggests a certain unconsciousness on the part of the black man.
In my formulation, the black man has real agency. He is in a genuine war of liberation against the white man and claiming a white woman is his “act of war.” Or, he holds a genuine principled belief in his sexual autonomy. He BELIEVES he can fornicate with whomever and whenever he pleases.
Of course, these CONSCIOUS beliefs can be held separately, but they are almost certainly held in conjuction with one and the other and there would be no cognitive dissonance in doing so.
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I’ll begin posting retorts and dismantling arguments once we get enough comments from Self-Serving White People and Anti-Black Male Black Women…
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ashante says,
i dont mind bm dating ww but just dont talk crap about bw while doing it.
laromana says,
I think MOST BW agree with your comment, ashante.
If MOST ANTI-BW BM who date/marry WW didn’t engage in ANTI-BW HATE as their JUSTIFICATION for doing so, they wouldn’t be contributing to the American BW HATE CULTURE by demeaning, devaluing, and disrespecting their SAME RACE women.
It’s telling that ANTI-BW BM are the ONLY men on the planet who PUBLICLY trash the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW by OVERHYPING/OVERVALUING WW/NON-BW and practicing/condoning ANTI-BW HATE.
Jessica says,
The irony of it all is that this is the MOST unstable pairing and has a divorce rate twice the rate of White men/White women (Which is nearing 50%).
What is the MOST stable pairing with a divorce rate 44% LESS than White men/ White women??? Black Women and White Men.
This is something black women should think of when considering marriage…the rate of divorce for blacks marrying each other is around 70%…
laromana says,
Jessica,
MANY have conveniently forgotten that IRR marriage is legal in America thanks to a BW/WM couple, the Lovings, and you are correct in stating that the MOST STABLE IRR pairing (despite its apparent continuing stigma) is BW/WM.
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Inregards to black nationalists; whats that saying “The Blacker the Talk, The Whiter the Woman”?
They even made a joke about that in “Don’t Drink Your Juice while being a menace to the hood” by the Wayans Brothers.
As for the Reasons:
Easier to get Along With:
This is just my observations but where black women seem to shoot from the hip more and “tell it like it is” so to speak, white women are far more likely to be passive aggressive, manipulative and controlling.
Essentially White Women only “seem” to be easier to get along with in the earlier stages of a relationship both dating and marriage, especially if your unprepared for their method of doing things.
As for an example from this blog think of “White Woman’s Tears”.
Easier to get in Bed:
Well; I suspect women will want to see if the hype lives up to reality, so that wouldn’t surprise me.
That and if most black men who ask white women out have more money than they usually have access to in dating partners, than white women might be more willing to have sex earlier to try and pull him in.
More Eager to Please their Man:
As in sexually or more along the lines of bare foot, in the kitchen and pregnant?
Ultimately I suspect alot of this might be mindset; if you go into a situation thinking a woman’s easy to get along with, more likely to bed you and more likely to do what you want etc….
Your probably going to be more confident and sure of yourself aren’t you?
Making these into basically self-fulfilling prophecies.
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“You are right about the way white men perceive black male sexuality. For white men, it is threatening and admirable. On one hand, they see black men as ideally masculine with large penises, and they admire or aspire to that, but on the other hand, they are paranoid about black men stealing white women, and their inability to compete with black men sexually.It has led to the lynching of black men for hundreds of years, but also the empowering of black men (through sports).”
I think this is a bunch of pep talk black men like to tell themselves. Most white men aren’t threatened or sexually intimated by black men. Most women of all races with the exception of black women have a much stronger personal preference for white men than black men. Hell, most women prefer white male sex partners on most of these freaky deeky websites, so all this bunk black men love to spew about being most masculine and sexually superior than white and other non-black men is merely a myth.
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i dont mind bm dating ww but just dont talk crap about bw while doing it.”
ashane, I’ve never cared black men being more attracted to “redbones” or white, hispanic, or asian. In fact i’ve never really been interested in black men period, but it really irks me when black men bash black women to justify why they chose non-black women. Why can’t they just stop leave black women alone and be content with their non-black partners?
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@Janet
Being more masculine and having a large penis aren’t all their is to sex; women prefer more masculine men when it comes purely to sex but when it is relationships they go for the more “effeminant” non-alpha male types.
Or to put it another way; being dominant, forceful and only considering your own desires may be something a woman goes for occasionally but it gets old when thats all they get, sometimes women also want their own needs met and thats more likely to happen if the guy is less attractive than them or has a small penis.
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Leigh. Armenians are White people. White people come in different colors, from very pale to very dark-just like everyone else. We are not monolithic entities.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/armeniadnaproject/default.aspx?section=results
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Geez, so much mis-information. Abagond so much of this is your opinion rather than fact. Please provide government stats next time.
Also Jessica, that wikipedia link doesn’t say that black and women marriages are “the most unstable”. There was no information about that at the link you provided.
It must have been a slow Sunday night for you.
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Here are some married BM/WW couples:
Taye Diggs and Idina Menzel
Montel Williams and Tara Fowler
Ice-T and Coco
Cuba Gooding Jr. and Sara Kapfer
Ahmad Rashad and Sale Johnson
Lamar Odom and Khloe Kardashian
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Basically Kim K and aremians are white like italians are white so take it as you will.
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Well; thats not quite accurate, italians are higher on the white scale but pretty much Kim K is white like mexicans are white….thats a closer to accurate statement.
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There seem to be quite a few videos on youtube of black men stating why they don’t like black women.
(Note to my “fans” – I have expressed no opinion on this topic whatsoever.)
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That article was so disgusting I couldn’t even get past a few paragraphs.
@peanut
Those men aren’t pathetic for getting used. It’s likely on purpose. American male culture revolves around sex and the notches on their belt. Unlike women, men don’t care about being objectified. They’re happy to be objectified, especially if it gets them laid. Feel free to use the American man; the more marks on his bedpost, then more manly he is.
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Abagond,
If you are a genuine anti-abortion Catholic then you are:
1. Something akin to a “black” Supremacist
2. Diametrically opposed to the fundamental beliefs of the American black collective.
But then again, I haven’t heard you actually reject radical sexual autonomy. I haven’t read you say that you would sexually reject a white female nor have I read you
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@ Peanut,
Well that was infuriating to watch.
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^^^ Reject the idea that your future son or daughter should reject radical sexual autonomy.
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peanut….you aint seen nothing yet. Unfortunately many “sista soulja” types are oblivious to the fact that a significant number of black men truly despise black women and want nothing to do with them, there are a number of them on this website. Black women are far too brainwashed and indoctrinated when it comes to so called “black love” mantra. Talk about being stuck in the matrix. lol
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@thordaddy,
What? How does that relate?
@ Peanut,
I understand, it’s gotta be rough. I don’t think Black women would care as much about who Black men date if Black men didn’t feel defensive or like they have to denegrate Black women to excuse it.
It’s just immature to say “I like White girls because you Black girls do blah blah blah” instead of just saying “I’m dating this pretty girl and I really like her”. It just dehumanizes both Black and White women when people do that because it treats the White woman like she’s just a tool to upset Black woman or reach a higher status, and we all know why it dehumanizes Black women.
Why not just leave it at a woman you want to date and stop treating their race as your deciding factor?
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You know…I was going to be active in this thread, but I’ve realized that it’s not worth it. I have a feeling that this thread will be yet another one filled with “strong” black women who lambast black men while failing at objectivity, and self-reflection. Black women who are quick to complain about opportunistic white racists (who will no doubt post in this thread under the guise of “caring”) negatively lumping all/most blacks (via heavy implications and not clarifying terms) together, while they do the exact same thing towards black men.
Abagond, you were horribly shortsighted to make a dead-end thread like this, because it’s just going to be another “Black Women That White Men Like”, and I don’t have the fortitude to deal with such a topic. I’m sitting this one out.
(Btw, bring on the insults.)
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black men got issues.
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As CJ – Canadian pointed out the numbers of Black men marrying non-Black women is not high enough to draw the amount of attention such unions draw. In truth the vast majority of Black men who are married are married to Black women. That’s a fact.
In your post, Abagond, you state that, “Successful black men do go for white women to a shocking degree. It is not just a media stereotype.” Do you have numbers to back this up? Because I don’t really think this is the case.
As you alluded to in your post, much of what is said about Black men and White women has a long history. A history based in racism and bigotry. Unfortunately many people, many of them Black, have taken this propaganda and internalized it. So much so that most don’t even realize that they’re regurgitating White racist propaganda.
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Ace,
If black man tells black woman he has the “right” to have sex with whomever he pleases and says in return that black woman can have the same “right,” BUT ALSO have the “right” to kill black child, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WILL DO to the psyche of the black woman? WHAT DOES IT SAY about the psyche of the black man?
“White racism,” circa 2012, IS A SMOKESCREEN for a radically liberated black collective IN SERIOUS DENIAL about the state of their existence.
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@Peanut
The vast majority of Black men love and have relationships with Black women. Unfortunately those men don’t have the platform nor get the attention that Black men who don’t like Black women have.
Most of what’s said about Black women in the media is propaganda. As a Black woman it’s vital that we learn the history of this sort of propaganda so we can put all of this in perspective.
Don’t believe the hype.
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I do have to say, I don’t see where this is becoming an anti-Black man thread. There is genuine frustration to be had about this subject, and I don’t see whats so wrong with some Black women venting on something that directly affects them (and they often wind up on the short end of the stick).
I personally think that many Black men have not done a decent enough job in defending Black women, even if they choose to date White women. I have seen a lot of Black women willing to put up with negative behavior on the part of Black men, but I do see that many Black men use the little bit of power they have as men against Black women when it is opportunistic to do so. Instead of nodding along with the racist propaganda leveled at Black women, why not say “That’s not true, don’t use me to further your agenda. I just like this woman I’m with, it has nothing to do with my opinion of Black women”
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@Thordaddy,
1. Black men do not unanimously support abortion, and neither do Black women. They are not monoliths, that has nothing to do with this conversation in any way.
2. The only thing that affects the psyche of that Black woman is the degredation she experiences, and that didn’t just magically start with Black men.
3. And yet all you have to do is talk to a Black person and you will find they’ve likely experienced this fictional “smokescreen” you talk about every day.
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“I’m sitting this one out.
(Btw, bring on the insults.)”
************************
You’ll get no insults from me, sir. LOL
Methinks you’ve made the right/wise call, once again.
Sometimes folks just need to get stuff off their chests – and other folks, sometimes, just need to be silent and let that happen, without fanfare.
I sense this is one of those times. : ))
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It’s a sad day when Black women have to apologize for not talking nicely about Black men who regularly debase them in the presence of White women, and it’s a sad day when people ignore what’s been said before about “white people” not equaling “all whites”.
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@peanut
Black men are out! Nobody is dating black men anymore. Too many problems! Ask Heidi, she finally got tired of being verbally abused. I think we all know who REALLY has the attitude and is hard to deal with (and it aint black WOMEN).
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I don’t think that would make people here feel better, your opinions on the subject are valid, and your experience is what many black women do deal with in regards to this subject. I don’t think people want to dismiss you or your frustrations, this is definitely the sort of topic that needs to be discussed.
I do think that people of color have a habit of thinking that there has to be perfect solidarity with each other in order to confront the racism that opposes them. The problem is that many of those people also don’t want to confront the affects of that racism on them and their societies. I think it’s tough to be able to think about how there being such a divide between Black men and Black women in the community that exists purely due to racial propaganda. Most black men know how damaging propaganda and stereotypes can be, but there are ones who fail at seeing beyond the difficulties of being a Black male.
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Yea sis i feel ya. Black men will talk about black women like a dog, but then they turn around and don’t understand why the white man treats them like they do. Traitors get dealt with and that is what the black man is showing himself to be, a traitor.
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Ace,
Why do black men have sexual relations with white women?
1. They are at war with white man is thus such act is an “act of war.”
2. They hold a firm belief in radical sexual autonomy, i.e., they believe they can “screw” whomever they please.
3. They hate black woman.
See the difference?
In Abagond’s formulation, black man’s sexual proclivities are a product of external forces out of his hands.
In my formulation, black man is in FULL CONTROL of his sexual proclivities.
Abagond is attempting to maximize the autonomy of the black man (himself) without the black man (himself) having to actually suffer the consequences of his choices (be at the blunt end of the ABW’s ire).
He has not as of yet REJECTED the idea that black man may have sexual relations WITH WHOMEVER HE PLEASES.
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Peanut says,
@ ashante:
I agree. I never cared about black men dating white women UNTIL I started hearing those evil, degrading, insulting youtube videos and media attacks by black men (and some white women) against Black women. I personally think some white women and black men actually ENJOY getting attention (whether negative or positive) for their relationship and provoke other people into saying stuff.
laromana says,
Peanut,
I strongly agree with all of your comments regarding the MANY manifestations of American BW HATE CULTURE that BW are subjected to from EVERYONE (especially from BM). This is UNACCEPTABLE/WRONG and NO ONE should be “surprised” that BW are insulted/offended by this mistreatment.
I believe that BW have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE AT/DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST ALL ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS.
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@Peanut
MOST black men are self hating jerks, sorry not a few but MOST. Let’s just face it. Abagond is no less damaged beyond repair since his wife divorced his ass.
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Ok, after “this” post I’ll leave this thread. Because I was done, until I saw one too many examples of extreme dishonesty.
@ Ace
That was obviously directed at me, since I’m the one of only ones to take issue with this thread. I’ve seen how this type of conversation devolves, time after time again, without fail.
@Ace and Peanut
No one was asking Black Women to apologize for bringing up concerning issues. That was a strawman, and (Peanut) the sarcasm about Mary Poppins was unnecessary. But even YOU two can (if you are honest) admit that there is a vocal (and deranged) segment of black women who always hijack these very important discussions, so they can peddle their lunacy and end up doing the very same thing they accuse black men of. Just switch the genders of the whites.
All I’m saying is be consistent with every post. Don’t be lazy and fail to use clarifying words like “some”, because every time that happens, you end up with another virtual Black Male Castration Rally. Which doesn’t do anything outside of drawing in agenda driven “concerned” white’s, and just creates more pointless animosity between black men and women.
With that, “I’m out” until I see Abagond make a new topic.
(*refreshed the page before submitting post*)
Looks like I was too late…
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Peanut,
YOU might live in a “white supremacist” society, but you DEFINITELY don’t live AMONGST genuine white Supremacists nor have you EVER actually interacted with one… Until now.
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@ Franklin,
Dishonesty? That sounds familiar.
My post was directly referring to Peanut and how she felt about how her posts were being taken, as well as my own personal frustration with the situation, again it is not the responsibility of other people to have to write “most” instead of “all”, you should know that already. It is a tough topic to talk about (since you seem to have ignored the rest of my post), so it is to be expected that people are going to express their feelings on the topic and it’s not going to be pretty. And part of what you said irks me because you went out of your way to say your rather negative feelings on certain types of “anti-black men” Black women in the first place.
@ Thordaddy,
Black men do not unanimously hate black women. They do not unanimously want to wage war with white men through dating black women. Despite what you want to think, black people are not always thinking how to get one over on the white man, they are capable of personal relationships you know…
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thordaddy,
How could you even begin to know that?
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Ask yourself why Truthbetold (black woman) and Franklin (assuming he is a black man) would drop out of this discussion when TD has given them something real to chew on?
Truthbetold doesn’t want to publicly affirm a white boy’s clear insights about the BELIEFS of the black man.
And Franklin, he just can’t bring himself to REJECT radical sexual autonomy nor can he deny that he is at war with the white man and doing his white woman IS a bona fide “act of war.”
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Abagond,
I haven’t submitted a single post that required moderation nor have I given you ANY REASON to think you would have to moderate me.
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There were five comments in moderation. All have been released.
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Peanut,
Do you think Supremacy = degeneracy?
Are you into that “abstract liberalism” stuff that Abagond was talking about?
Why do black men have sexual relations with white women?
Have you actually answered that question?
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This topic interests me, as a black African woman living in Africa. Interracial relationships here are mostly between white men and black women, its very rare to see a black man with a white woman. Maybe because we are the majority? *shrugs*.
As a YouTube addict and an avid reader of Black blogs, this issue has come up too many times, to the point I realized it was a sore topic among the African diaspora.
For those interested in answering, I have a few queries:
1. Is this truly an issue? How visible is it? Can I correctly assume that if Black men had a choice of women they would least likely pick a Black woman? Especially a dark complected woman?
2. Do the white women they date and/or marry understand the effects of racism, aware of the anti-racist “movement”? Are they capable of raising bi-racial kids who may choose to self-identify as Black?
3. As Black women in the diaspora (I know many face marginalization in their societies) is there a certain behaviour within your communities that may trigger Black men to this? I mean no disrespect.
I am interested in seeing the comments on this post evolve, as TBH as a black woman in a black majority country this is not an issue.
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@ Thordaddy,
Are you kidding me? Maybe they don’t want to take your “insights” on the matter because you offer none? Throwing jargon into your statements make them any more substantial or correct. And why bring their personal lives into anything? You don’t know how they think.
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@ Franklin
Believe me, I know just how this is going to end and it is going to be extremely ugly. Which is why I have been avoiding doing this post for the longest time but which I promised to do, unfortunately.
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Ace,
Do you really think I come in here to “kid?”
Peanut,
Do what you want. Do who you want. And don’t give single explanation of why you do it. You will get no closer to any black man.
Which commentator, outside of me, has rejected radical sexual autonomy?
And you folks really wonder why the black man/black woman dynamic is so damaged?
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@ Matari
That sounds about right,
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Peanut,
If you as black woman believe you can have sexual relations with whomever you please and black man believes the exact same things while you both agree that you may kill black child in utero, HOW HEALTHY do you think the black man/black woman relationship will be???
These are THE REAL BELIEFS of the black American collective.
But you think this is all about “white supremacy.”
You don’t even know what white Supremacy really is.
You’ve been duped. By who is the question?
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@Peanut tell’em why you mad son!
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Peanut,
That’s good to hear, but you are outside the mainstream beliefs of the American black collective.
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Could it be that in this we see the racist System at work? I mean, basically who cares with whom one wants to live with, be with, have sex with? I have no objections to any realtionship if the ones in it are happy and good to each other. BUT
This is a sore subject and it is (for many) a very painful thing. It is loaded with symbolism, meanings and messages. Why? To make black women and men fight about it? To give those white racists like thordaddy some ammunition to direct at blacks?
There is something really weird on this going on. I have no explanations for it. I just say that from my perspective it seems that this whole talk about “interracial relationships” shows very clearly how racist the american System is and how deep it penetrates into peoples lives. It can fK you up in so many ways, even in your very personal and intimate life.
Just think about it for a moment: instead of loving someone, you look at the color of that person. Instead of having sex with a person, you have sex with a “race”. How sick is that? How pervert is that?
@V4: “Well; thats not quite accurate, italians are higher on the white scale but pretty much Kim K is white like mexicans are white….thats a closer to accurate statement.”
White scale??? How twisted and pervert is that?
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@ commentarybyvalentina
I agree with this.
I will try to get you the numbers on successful black men marrying out. I believe the break-even point is an income of $100,000: most married black men who make less than that marry black, most who make more do not.
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Sam says,
“I mean, basically who cares with whom one wants to live with, be with, have sex with?”
See, you think you are making some kind of moral declaration. In fact, you are showing us your submission to radical autonomy, a completely immoral stance.
Do you really think it’s immoral for black women to take offense at the sight of a black man and white woman.
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What I think is going on in these sorts of discussions when they turn ugly:
1. Black men who go with white women for reasons of self-hatred feel the need to bash black women. Sergeant Willie Pete was classic.
2. Then black women who have self-hatred issues start bashing black men. Not just the ones in Step #1 but in general.
3. It becomes a vicious, ugly circle.
4. Of those without self-hatred issues, some women will join in feeling the need to defend black women while most men will sit it out seeing it as a lose-lose no matter which side they choose.
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@ Ace
I agree.
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@ Thordaddy
I think everyone has a right to be with who they want regardless of race. But I also think some people get into interracial relationships for unsound reasons, more so than intra-racially. Mainly because of how racism has screwed up our minds.
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I chose Kim K because I think she is (well, was) beautiful (well, if I do not think too much about how she got that way). That made writing the post more balanced and serious for me. Heidi Klum and other blondes just do not do it for me.
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@ Peanut
I am talking generally, not about this thread so far, which is still doing pretty good. Your comments have all been reasonable.
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“I was shocked the first time I heard some of the stuff people were saying about Black women and to hear it coming from some Black men was amazing to me.”
Yes, I too was shocked. I’ve been online for 16 years and though nowadays you might notice a variety of people taking pot-shots at Black women, back then it was overwhelming self-identified black males who were posting some of the most heinous, misogynistic, anti-BW propaganda I have ever come across in my life up until today.
And it wasn’t just the old cliched “attitude” stereotype being bandied about either, it was far worse than that. BW in general were being verbally sliced and diced starting at their hair and ending at the tips of their toenails. One might have thought s/he was witnessing some kind of Klan / Stormfront beet-red-faced, blood-vessel-bursting hissyfit about Blacks in general rather than the blind hatred certain black men had for Black women (yeah, some of that stuff probably was written by poseurs. It certainly wouldn’t be anything unusual. It seems to me there’s at least one WM who still occasionally makes post to the commentary of this blog while pretending to be a monumental Uncle Tom).
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Abagond,
I already know what you think. You’re a black liberationist.
What you are not acknowledging IS THE CONSEQUENCE of such belief EVEN THOUGH the EFFECTS are right on this blog for all to read.
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@thordaddy
Your posts are nonsense, and add nothing to the discussion. Your litter your responses with anomalous jargon, for which I can only surmise is an attempt to keep others from disputing you by removing common language.
In a gist, you continue with these superfluous questions, which often appear to be completely unrelated, and subsequent posts display a childishly smug attitude as if you proved some point. Yet, no one saw it and so you repeat the process.
It is asinine, at best.
I would suggest you to sod off, but I know that will only fuel your desire to troll.
I just wanted to let you know, that you are not fooling anyone.
You are neither clever nor witty. You do not provide any amusement. You do not add any layers of thought to the discussion.
In short, you are just another absurd presence clogging up the airways with your babble.
I’m sure I’m not the only one on to your little sham.
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Wampinao,
I find it rather amusing that so many foreigners think they can tell me more about my house than I can tell you about my house.
Not a single person has rebutted MY ANSWERS as to why the black man seeks sexual relations with the white woman.
In fact, Abagond just reasserted what I’ve said from the beginning.
Black men seek sexual relations with white women BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE they can have sexual relations with whomever they please. This is called Radical sexual autonomy.
This is not rocket science, Mr. Scientist.
I also asserted that black man seeks sexual
relations with the white woman as an act of war in the black man’s liberation. You may disagree, but that’s just because you know nothing about MY HOUSE.
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Now, Mr. Scientist… What kind of effects would you predict for those that hold this belief in radical sexual autonomy?
Would you predict a healthy, monogamous, child-producing marriage to a compatible individual?
What if you thought all modern black women believed in radical sexual autonomy?
Would you predict that the black man would hold the modern black woman in higher regard?
If Abagond applied this “I think anyone can be with anyone else” principle to himself or his children (assuming he has children), how much legitimacy would his writings have?
Sorry Mr. Scientist, but you stuck on stunted.
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@ Thordaddy
No one has rebutted you because arguing with you is a waste of time.
For example:
———–
THORDADDY: But then again, I haven’t heard you actually reject radical sexual autonomy. I haven’t read you say that you would sexually reject a white female nor have I read you
ABAGOND: I think everyone has a right to be with who they want regardless of race.
THORDADDY: I already know what you think. You’re a black liberationist. What you are not acknowledging IS THE CONSEQUENCE of such belief EVEN THOUGH the EFFECTS are right on this blog for all to read.
———–
I feel like I am talking to the King Toad or something.
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Abagond,
You can’t say that the black man may be with whomever he pleases and then complain when he chooses a white woman by suggesting such choice as learned self-hatred at the hands of “white supremacy.”
Actually, you can say that, but now how worthless is your principle that asserts that the black man can be with whomever he pleases?
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@ Thordaddy
I just deleted a comment of yours. Please stay on topic. If that is too hard for you, then I will ban you. I cannot babysit my blog 24/7.
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HEY PEANUT:
maybe this explaination my husband provided as to why some bm bash bw to white folks will help you. i cut and pasted it from the other post. also, nobody said bm shouldnt date or marry a ww, we are just saying dont dog us out when you do it:
my hubby said the reason for doing it with a white woman and man are different: he said they bash bw to ww cuz they want to raise her self esteem therefore setting her up to get money, when she finally denies the request for money OR when she starts fussing back about his lying and cheating OR when she starts to nagging about him getting a job, he can say: YOU’RE ACTING JUST LIKE AN EVIL BLACK
WOMEN!!! and that will cause the white women to give the money or stop arguing because she wants to think she is BETTER than the bw. my hubs called it “mind fuckery”.
okay, with a white man, he said the bm does it cuz it makes him feel on the same level as the white man. hell they have something in common: THEY BOTH HATE NI66ERs!! also,they want to seem like a non threatning bm, they cant be a threat cuz they got a white wife too! also, he said its something that men do: they talk down about a woman so no other man will try to get with her, the old I DONT WANT ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE YOU. so they make bw seem bad so the white man wont get it in his mind to try to hook up with one.
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@ Thordaddy
What are you? Fourteen? Part of the cost of freedom, of free will, is that people will make bad decisions.
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Abagond,
Do what you want. I’m always on topic. This is serious business and now you’re going all chumpish. You think by treating this exchange like some joke that those who lurk won’t see or understand?
What are your actual “credentials” to be asserting what you assert?
Think how detached from reality a person has to be to blog on these topics and not expect push back?
BLACK MAN seeks sexual relations with white woman BECAUSE IT HIS “RIGHT” to be with whomever he pleases.
Say it loud and proud…
What will black woman think?
Will she say, “you go, big dawg!!!”
Will she be indifferent, neutral, tolerant, nondiscriminating?
Or will she be MAD AS HELL…
Which black woman actually has the healthiest mind?
Come on, Abagond… Your F-game is not inspiring at all.
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I leave in France and trust me, the phenomena (bm dated ww) is far worst here. I thought about it and I do agree with you, Abagond, on this point: the white idea of beauty plays a huge role in such situation.
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@ abagond
According to a study completed by Hitsch, Hortascu, and Ariely (2006) on online dating, White women resist dating out of their group.
An African American male can do as well with white women if he earns $154 000, [on average] MORE than a white man with same attributes.
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Here is a link:
Click to access onlinedating.pdf
I think the WW/BM trend is overstated. Sure WW/BMs are hooking up, But the **lasting** relationships…well, i have yet to see an abundance of.
JT
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For me, it’s the area I live in (TN), where there aren’t that many Blacks in comparison to, say Memphis or even Nashville. Heck, the pool of general mates (women for me) isn’t something to write home about, unless you’re into flings, step-children, or “Springer drama” (<would be an interesting post, Abagond). I prefer a quality woman, regardless of make, though my first preference is Black women (similar culture). Relocating to another area looks promising by the day…SMH!
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@thordaddy:
“See, you think you are making some kind of moral declaration. In fact, you are showing us your submission to radical autonomy, a completely immoral stance.”
You gotta be kiddin me? You talk about morals? One thing that I have learned in life is this: those who talk about moral loudest, are the ones who have least morals. You fit right in there, buddy. You are a moralist, not a moral being. Big difference. And, just like you, a moralist is always a hypocrite.
“Do you really think it’s immoral for black women to take offense at the sight of a black man and white woman.”
No. She can do what ever she wants to do. You don’t seem to get it. That is what Freedom is all about. It is about letting you behave like a snot nose kid who thinks he has found wisdom in his little head by repeating his one and only idea (radical autonomy, what ever that is, in your case). It is also about letting people do what ever they want with their lives as long as they don’t hurt others.
I know for a scared little whiner like yourself that is the most horrible idea of them all because if everybody would do as they please, then EVERYBODY WOULD BE DOING WHAT EVER THEY WANT!!!
Ad isn’t that a scary? No. It is the way it should be.
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@ thordaddy:
Like abagond said: Freedom means that people choose, perhaps make mistakes.
I have made mistakes, bad choices, fKed up royally, done bad things, got lost, made wrong turns, but I have learned all along. I know what is wrong. It is to hurt your fellow man. Everything else, bring it on. Go for it. Do as you please. Live your Life. It is the only one here you got. Why not to live it? Why listen to commands from a scared little guy like yourself?
I say just live, Breathe. Eat, drink. Enjoy. Listen to a good song. Read a good book. Feel it. Learn. And when the day comes, when the last count is in, you know something, perhaps not much, but at least something. Perhaps you know that you lived the wrong way, but you know that too. That is what Freedom is all about: Living.
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It’s funny how this topic has brought out the deranged BWE crowd (like Sandra and Janet) and white supremacists, seperatists and other such ish.
It’s also funny how black women are talking about getting dissed by black men yet they feel “justified” to diss us back.
It’s also funny how black women (especially the BWE crowd) love to point out (and also lie and embellish) the negative statistics of black men, yet they cry foul when black men use statistics to discredit them!
Now the manginas might buy into the BWE crowd sob story but the rest of the world doesn’t.
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@Penut
You are acting like a black male identifying mammy. It’s MOST perhaps when you grow older you will see how deep the black mans hate for black women goes, but maybe not most don’t. I can’t think about any other community in America that hates their women like black men do. If they didn’t hate black women why do they treat black women like MOST do?
Sorry everyone is a thinking being, just as I don’t excuse racism I don’t excuse self hating black men. Saying we live in a racist society is just an excuse for them to act like they do. Everyone has control of their lives.
A black man CAN’T date a light skinned woman, a mixed woman or a white woman without being self hating just as white people can’t do certain things without being racist
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“@Penut
You are acting like a black male identifying mammy.”
A typical BWE/Feminist tactic. If a BWE see another black women thinking differently from their agenda then she’s a “mammy”!
For a crowd that wants black women to be free thinking and independant. They sure have a funny way of showing it.
“I can’t think about any other community in America that hates their women like black men do.”
I can’t think of any other community in America that hates their men like black women do.
“If they didn’t hate black women why do they treat black women like MOST do?”
Explain?
“A black man CAN’T date a light skinned woman, a mixed woman or a white woman without being self hating just as white people can’t do certain things without being racist”
That is just question begging at it’s finest. Here’s how:
1. A light skinned black woman is still a black woman. So how’s that self hating?
2. If a white man dates an olive skinned white woman. Would he be self hating as well?
3. If white man starts dating outside his race. Is he self hating as well?
4. What about a black woman that only dates light skinned black men. Is she full of self hate aswell?
5. What if a black women is dating a non black man. Is she full of self hate as well?
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Yo Abagond,
Please leave Sandra’s comment to Peanut alone. I want people to see just how irrational, foolish and hypocritical the women of the BWE movement actually are!
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Wow, a lot of comments and controversy. My own attitude toward BM/WW couples has always been “c’est la vie” or “live and let live”. I do perceive that the dynamics of some of these relationships have in the past been driven at least in part by racial stereotypes and internalized racism. I perceive also that this is not so much the case among the younger generations nowadays.
Agabond, I’d be interested to know if you have any insights with respect to the phenomenon one often sees, especially around my home town, of black men with obese white women. Is it as simple as a cultural preference for thick women, or is it more about what Chris Rock suggests in his stand-up, that these women are considered the “dregs” by white culture, thereby creating a dynamic of black men accepting the “scraps” left by white men? Or perhaps an admixture of these concepts?
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These sort of convos can get nasty, I’m sure you all know willy pete. However even in his “discussuions” the main characters are always black men, black women, and white women. The white men seem to be somehow left out of the conversation until he starts ranting how when black women do it they are just trying to get even and have some sort of ulterior motive . To him white men are not seen as masculine, so how could a black woman have true feelings for a white man(bullsh)
So I think its time for a white man’s perspective. Since we have been left out of many of the conversations.
I’ll start with a personal example. My wife and I have two small children and we are very happily married. I go out from time to time, She goes out from time to time. We have been to the same mixed bar without each other. Each of us has been hit on by black people. In my experience, just seeing the black girl flirting,(not humping on the dance floor), but just flirting gets crazy eyes from black guys at the other end of the bar. But the same guys had slutty white girls hanging all over them. Now how is that any sense of fairness. I have seen this scenario many times before so it is not a lone example.
My wife on the other hand has been basically sexually assaulted by black guys on the dance floor. She’s up there dancing with her girlfriends and some guy starts humping her without an invitation. Now I know the slutty white girls are partly to blame for this , but any generalization is wrong and in this case it was very wrong. She pushed the guy away. Next she’s sitting at the bar minding her own buz, the same guy comes over and puts his arm around her, again no invitation, she says “I’m married”. His response was “what to a white boy” She said no ” To a MAN” The guy finally got it and moved on.
Now it is also my experience that white men get blamed . Now how the hell is it a white man’s fault that that particular guy was so aggressive. He was an idiot, but I guarantee he found some takers just because he’s black, a white idiot like that wouldn’t EVER get laid.
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A lot of things to read and review.
“A black man CAN’T date a light skinned woman, a mixed woman or a white woman without being self hating just as white people can’t do certain things without being racist”.
Obviously this isn’t true. Black Americans come in all sorts of shades. There is no reason to automatically assume that a black man who is dating a black woman lighter than himself is automatically self-hating. There are tons of black women and black men who are self-hating and who are married to black folks of their skin tone or darker.
Some self-identified black men and black women are very light or biracial. Who should they date or marry? If they marry someone darker than themselves are they self-hating? Are both halves of a B/W interracial couple self-hating or does this only apply to BM/WW couples-specifically Black men.
Inquring minds would like to know.
Only approximately 7.6% of married black men are married to white women.
White women are the least likely of any female cohort to marry interracially.
However one wants to define “successful” it appears that the majority of successful black men who do marry, marry black women. Overall roughly 87% of married black men are married to black women. So the wailing and gnashing of teeth makes no sense. The black women who claim to want to be married and aren’t shouldn’t blame white women or black men for their issues. Like with everyone else, it’s personal.
Re Kardashian: She is of Armenian, Dutch and Scottish ancestry. That spells “white” in America. Armenians are literally Caucasians so I don’t get why there would be any questions about whether she’s white or not.
The BM/WW combo gets the most disdain from society for a lot of different reasons. It’s surprising that so many people still feel compelled to bleat forth stereotypes or attempt to control who other people decide to marry. So it goes.
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Good morning all,
I see my decision to leave this post last night was the right one.
In order to understand why some black men want white women, we must first go to the root of the situation.
It started with slavery.
A black man, who was denied his self worth, had only one thing to use as a weapon to punish the white slavemaster, his sexual prowess.
The ability to bed and STEAL a white woman was an excellent tool.
The taboo nature of this made it all the more desirable.
When some black men look into the eyes of his black woman, he not only sees promises of what may come, he sees:
His Failures
His lost dreams
His weaknesses
His privileges denied
His rage at society
That kind of intimacy and truth can be jarring, scary and exciting all at the same time.
Please note that American media doesn’t help either.
Black women have always gotten a raw deal.
We were seen as unattractive, demanding, slovenly, uneducated and sexually loose from day one.
Blame the media for that.
While there are SOME black men who prefer to date non black women, most black men traditionally date and marry black women and are happy to do so.
Make no mistake about it.
There is always a group of people of colour who hate themselves and use their own hatred to justify this behaviour.
But there are also men, of any race, who happen to fall in love with any woman, of any race, and it’s none of anyone’s business if they do.
I, as a black woman of mixed heritage, find the love of a strong, educated, passionate black man to be unmatched.
He understands my plight without me having to say a word.
And loves me just the same.
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@truth I get what you are saying, but ultimately YOU control your own actions. Remember that Columbine High School shooting. Remember they were blaming everything from “Marilyn Manson” to violent video games, to movies, cartoons, etc. But ultimately it was the parents fault, and the kid himself.
When you make excuses for people you are not helping them , you are hurting them.
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@ Dave
I’m not making excuses, I’m merely trying to give reasonable explainations as to why this occurs.
I do not believe in ANYTHING perpetuated by the media.
The media has an agenda to control our lives by controlling our thoughts.
This is my opinion.
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@JT
“watches eco wave confederate flag solemnly”
huh? Have I ever agreed with thordaddy? EVER? Nope.
I try not to make any comments about the state of mind of black people. Most of the time I comment when people say things about whites.
I think thordaddy makes as little sense as Menelik Charles. Actually, thordaddy may be even less coherent and that’s one hell of an “accomplishment”.
@Peanut
“If you put hattie mcdaniel (a very talented actress) but who always was made to look unattractive and asexual next to Vivien Leigh who is all done up, wearing make up and pretty dresses…OF COURSE people are going to find the white woman more attractive, they’re putting her next to someone who has been MADE to look unattractive to assuage the insecurity of the white woman.”
I think it’s about white man’s desires, not white woman’s insecurities. Asian women are seen as cute, delicate and submissive instead of boyish and asexual. Latinas are sultry and a bit wild, instead of welfare queens. This obviously isn’t how white women see them. If white men were more into Black women their image would be more positive or at least more sexualized (more Jezebel and much less Sapphire).
“That is why there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that you don’t put equally attractive Black women and white women in equal roles in Hollywood, because then God forbid people would see that beauty has no color and white women aren’t superior to Black women.”
I sincerely doubt that.
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@peanut
I listened to the recording of the Vanessa Feltz show and must confess to being bemused by the BM commenter. Stating that BW are by and large ‘repulsive’ and even the most average BW are not comparable to the most average WW! REAL insightful comments there!!!!! I could hear the amusement in her voice too but she does generally come across in this way so i’m not sure that its smugness on her part????
But look who he was talking to? A WW that most WM would balk at getting together with. No offence to Vanessa, she is a whole lotta woman and maybe in part, men WM might feel intimidated by being with a woman like her too cos similarly to the perception of BW I dont reckon she would take any crap either.
BTW, I am guessing you know she is with a BM?
Meanwhile I echo some of the post on here made by other commenters – I absolutely dont care who people choose to be with but I abhor men/people who justify their ‘choice’ by running down, into the ground, the people they decide not to be with.
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“@truth I get what you are saying, but ultimately YOU control your own actions. ”
100% agree. besides this is 2012, not 1930.
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Abagond,
Discomfort with this pairing is seen primarily in the United States.
When I travel abroad to visit relatives, this pairing along with many other pairings, receives little if no attention.
America has suffered from the reeling effects of slavery and this is the outcome.
I secretly suspect that this is the white man’s greatest fear, to have his woman stolen from him by someone deemed inferior. After all, money rules, right? But sexual prowess cannot be bought.
As you can see by the vemon spewed here, perhaps this is true, no?
Black women’s beauty is seen in a VERY different light outside of the US.
Therefore the ” golden white woman ” is not put on the pedestal.
She isn’t an ornament to be displayed on the mantle, collecting dust.
She is just an ordinary woman who happens to be white.
America has been the source of the black woman’s pain since we landed here in chains. The comments here from other black women who are angry, hurt and wanting to vent is proof of that.
Black men, like black women, are free to love as they wish.
The vitriol at THIS particular pairing is due to 450 plus years of hurt.
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@ temple
Yes, it is not 1930.
We now have a black president.
We are now mostly middle class.
But the remains of our past still lingers.
The stigma of the black beast and the helpless white woman in heat will live on regardless of what year it is.
One cannot truly deny that the past is responsible for the anger at this pairing.
If the tables were reversed and it’s black woman/ white man, then the anger would be at the black woman wanting to the secretly dominated.
I understand that anger here with some commentators.
I do not feel it directly due to the fact that I am not an American.
I am also of multiracial heritage and see this and other pairings in my own kin.
But the anger still remains.
Why?
Because we haven’t moved on from the past.
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“Because we haven’t moved on from the past.”
but there’s no question that we definitely need to move on from the past. because we’re allowing it to keep us crippled. there is no excuse why, once you know there’s a problem, instead of doing the work to repair it, you continue to ride the problem on a tidal wave of excuse making.
whatever damage slavery & jim crow did to black people should be repaired by now or well along that road to repair. only black people of today are responsible for the colorism with it’s own community, only black people of today are responsible for the abysmal fatherless rates of their own children. you’ve listed all reasons black people got to this sorry place, but why aren’t black people making any effort within their own community to correct the internalised reasons for perpetuating them against each other.
maybe that’s why whites don’t take you seriously. just saying.
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@ temple
Damages done by Jim crow and slavery have been ingrained into our collective thought processes.
It’s not that we as people of colour haven’t tried to move forward, we HAVE moved forward as much as we CAN move forward.
I don’t want to stray off topic so I won’t get into the other things you’ve listed.
You seem angry. That’s your right.
But there is a reson for the anger.
As for whites not taking me seriously, who cares?
This is not the topic at hand.
Please respond accordingly or I’ll stop our conversation.
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@truthbetold
sorry to disappoint, but i’m not at all angry. i just don’t see “we are forever unable to be our best selves in the face of your white oppression” as a position of power. too many have achieved too much under far worse circumstances.
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. . .conversation stopped.
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“whatever damage slavery & jim crow did to black people should be repaired by now or well along that road to repair.”
A writer I read said that it takes longer to heal any wound than it does to inflict it.
http://darkush.blogspot.com/2010/04/thats-how-we-roll.html
He sets full citizneship for all Black Americans since about 1965~1970 or so.
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@shady_grady–“But as I’ve said before, what I see is whites who conveniently forget the history of race relations. Women who forget that those who stop the raping men…are also, usually, men. Straights who forget that homosexuality exists in nature. Christians who forget the history of aggression between the West and the Arab world.” Steven Barnes
i’d like to add “black men who forget that black women live in & are affected by the same raced society as they are.”
Barnes is married to one of my fav black woman authors, Tananarive Due. love her Immortals series. also have his Great Sky Woman in my to-read pile.
appreciate the link.
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Sam,
How about you not opine on things American? The answers I gave to WHY the black man seeks sexual relations with white woman HAVE BEEN RELUCTANTLY acknowledge all throughout this thread.
1. Black man CAN SEX whomever HE PLEASES (Abagond, Ace, Sam, etc. all agreed on this one).
2. Black man is at war with white man and such act is an “act of war” in black man’s liberation (truthbetold came around to this one).
3. Black man hates black woman (Peanut, ashante, etc. have agreed to this one).
Now, if you so desire, you can CLAIM that white man did ALL OF THIS to black man. But such a claim should be met with laughable derision.
So again, is #1 above a moral stance? I’m curious to how you seem to believe so WHEN THE RESULTS are so destructive?
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Eco,
The better question for you is what exactly have I said in regards to black man/white woman that you DON’T AGREE WITH?
Be specific… I’ve made very straightforward assertions that can be rebutted face on.
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Aba,
This topic has been thought provoking.
Thank you.
I’ll sign off for now.
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@thordaddy: Black man can have sex with anyone he wants to as long as that person wants to have sex with him. Black woman can have sex with anyone as long as that person wants to have sex with him. Even you can have sex with anyone as long as that person wants to have sex with you. See?
If two humanbeings want to have sex, feel good, love each other or simply just enjoy with one part of their humanity, it is ok. There is nothing wrong. Simple as that. You seem to confuse things like sex with your very own moralist problems. I have no such problems. I like sex. It is that simple. I feel no guilt, nor should anyone else feel. There is no reason.
If one chooses ones partner for the sake of the color of the skin, one way or another, I feel sorry. That is very narrow and thin view for the whole thing.
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@ Thordaddy
Maybe that was true back in the 1960s but these days it seems to mean the opposite if it means anything at all: that he is aligning himself WITH whites. Think Clarence Thomas, whose white wife probably made him seem “safe” to whites. While Obama’s black wife (and black pastor) seemed to have made him more threatening to whites.
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Sam,
You are too dense for my discussions
Abagond,
Black man is at war with the white man in a struggle for black man’s liberation. This is a true now as it was 500 years ago. And his battle tactics haven’t changed and he certainly hasn’t dispensed with his most potent weapon. In fact, it is now taken as a given that black man can have sexual relations with whomever he pleases. This would account for your naivety about what truly motivates the black man on the daily.
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@thordaddy
I find it quite telling that you needed to attach parameters to me in order to form a rebuttal. You needed to make assumptions as to who I am so that you could attack my status, because you could not rebuke my words.
Your ‘radical sexual autonomy’ has no place in this, or perhaps any, thread. It is a nonsensical phrase, and debating foolish declarations is a waste of time.
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ashante
Sandra
Jessica
janet
ciara
AND THIS
LOLIRONY!!!
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Franklin
@Franklin
Yeah. Me too.
@abagond
From Toldson and Marks in Empower Magazine.
Yeah Abagond, you may want to to have a policy about these heifers and their non sequitors.
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I take issue with this statement. Much for the same reasons that the others have done so, but additionally, I read that you think light-skinned and mixed women are not black women. Why have these women been ostracized from the black community, in your eyes?
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Sam,
If you believe…
1. Black man can have sexual relations with whomever he pleases.
and…
2. Black man seeking sexual relations with white woman is a sign of a self-hater under the nefarious influence of “white supremacy.”
You are refuting yourself. Your beliefs don’t jive with each other. You have to restructure your beliefs so as to be taken seriously.
Either, black man can have sexual relations with anyone he pleases EXCEPT white women (because that is self-hatred) or black man can have sexual relations with white woman because it “pleases” him (has NOTHING to do with self-hatred).
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In my experience, Abagond’s qualifiers are correct, namely that the majority of BM/WW relationships start through
1. Military service
2. University education
3. Living in a part of the country/planet with few blacks, like New England
I’ve experienced all three scenarios and have known a *lot* of black men who ended up dating interracially in those scenarios because *ahem, ahem* the available women in those areas were majority white. On top of that (although I’ll say again that this is a personal observation.of mine and not an actual data point), during my military service and life in 90+% white environments (including a couple of years spent living less than 2 hours away from 3 Native American reservations), any black woman who was prettier than Wanda from “In Living Color” and (here’s the kicker) *not outright “country”/”hood”* never had to ask herself what she’d be doing on a Saturday night. And when I say “Never”, I mean like Outkast-style “Never *ever*?”, “Never ever!” I’ve known black men who were so starved for black female attention that they sat in a restaurant and watched their date eat with a fork and her fingers (Hell, I once ate dinner with a woman who ordered a steak, then plunged her fork directly into the middle of the meat and took bites from it. My single friend, who was a FOB from the West Indies, got up from the table and went home without even saying goodbye+.) That same woman, who was raised in a group home and had never learned table manners, got married to a black man *and* had more than one kid within the bonds of wedlock. This took place in the “New South” in an area in which there were plenty of “poor white trash” women who were eagerly having their way with every black male base castoff who crossed their paths (and seeing as how this base had 200 single black women for over 1500 single black men, every weekend saw close to 1000 SBM running the streets and driving 2+ hours to the closest HBCU to meet black women.) The ratio in Europe was even worse. The month before I left Germany, the SBW: SBM ratio was 100:2000 (1:20, in simpler terms.) I knew hundreds of married-to-black-women black men who wouldn’t travel more than 1/2 your from their bases because their wives were afraid of white people. Or because the women were tired of being propositioned by white men. Or because the women had married “sexy” black men (read as tall, dark-skinned, muscular and more classy than Fred Sanford) and didn’t want to deal with “thirsty” black women who had burned their bridges with the available and “sexy” black men who were still single. Were there black men in these areas who turned up their noses at black women because white p*ssy was everywhere for the taking? Of course there were, you’d have to be stupid to think otherwise! That being said, were their plenty of available black men who weren’t attracted to white women, who didn’t go clubbing every weekend and turned down overtures from what white women who were attracted to them? Yes, and there were *lots* of them. I worked with a black female officer who planned a WOC conference for our base. When she asked the single women about their main complaints about being in Europe, the number one complaint was “These black men don’t give us time to breathe, never mind all of the white guys who are hitting on us!” IME, the dating scene for black men went like this: try to get with the hottest black chicks, get shot down, try to get with the next rung of black women, get shot down/have a few dates then watch her upgrade for a “better” black guy, hook up with white chick while drunk, try to get with “ugly” black woman, get shot down, start f*cling white chicks as if p*ssy had an expiration date. Once again, were there black men who *never even considered* the idea of dating or marrying black women in these areas? Yes, definitely yes. Did these men make up more than a fifth of all of the black men in these bases? When you consider the fact that a high majority of black people from non-military families have never lived in or even visited a different part of America prior to enlistment, assuming that the same black men who often fought tooth and nail to be transferred to a Southern base (so that they wouldn’t be surrounded by white people), would suddenly reject black women altogether because they’re surrounded by white women and living in an entirely foreign environment is ignorant.
The same thing goes for black men in university. Many, if not most, black women attend university in a black-heavy environment (whether its a HBCU or a Southern/Eastern/Western based school). Many of the black men who attend university do so with an athletic scholarship, a set of circumstances that leads to hundreds of black men living in places like Montana and Wyoming (because a free education with a chance to be on the same court with Carmelo Anthony is *worth* a few years surrounded by woods and snow.) People, however, are people. Expecting a man to go fully celibate until he can meet a “mandatory” mate is as senseless as its inverse. Anyone who thinks that a healthy young man with the average sexual impulses of a healthy young man is going to ignore what’s on tap (eg. thirsty groupies) because they aren’t supposed to date out is ignorant (I knew a few black female university students when I lived in Europe. All of them were dating white men. Given the circumstances, seeing as how they outnumbered black men on their campuses and that the black men who were available to them were usually “lower-class” military men, I didn’t bat an eye. Me telling a Boston-bred black woman with a dual major in International Relations and Finance to date a black farmboy from Mississippi who joined the military so that he could see big buildings in “Miami”, that would be stupid. Really Stupid. Different dreams, different mindset, different childhoods, nothing in common besides the fact that they’re the same complection.) Back on topic, there are thousands of black men who travel to PWI schools every year because *that’s the best that they can do*. Schools in the nicer parts of the country have all of their open slots filled as soon as the fosters are up, but a black man with a 3.0+ GPA can always get squeezed into University of North Dakota or University of Maine (even if its as a quota student), whereas that same black man has competition against black women (and increasingly, foreign students) to get into HBCUs as well as other PWIs. As I’ve mentioned earlier on this site, I have relatives who have attended university (and are now working) in various white-heavy parts of the world for the same reason that people rob banks: that’s where the money is. I live in New York City and I’m attending university here, but I’d leave this city in a flash if the University of Idaho started handing out scholarships like candy (free school is always better than paying for it yourself, unless the school is literally called Peabo’s College and Waffles or Uncle Festus’ School Where You Can Learn to Talk and Think Good.) A degree is a degree (barring the Ivies), so there’s no difference in scholastic result between cramming yourself into Auburn or taking an easier ride and going to the Upper Peninsula campus at the University of Michigan. Unless the young man in question was reasonably popular in high school, there’s no difference in social status, either. For your average college-bound non-athletic black male, there’s no difference between being rejected or rendered second-rate by black women, or going to an almost-all white school and becoming a non-factor altogether. Both scenarios lead to the same result-dry, unrumpled sheets, a bottle of lotion and a torrented copy of “Lexington Steele’s Greatest Hits” on your computer (not *ahem* that I know about this from personal experience or anything ++). But, as with everything else in life, there are always going to be people who want to try “something different” (IOW, in the same way that all of the black female students in Europe had European BFs, those black male students in white schools will eventually attract at least 1 interested white woman. If the black man in question is/was decidedly unpopular with his own kind, he’s going to pedestalise his white paramour and demonise everyone else. Ha, the power of p*ssy.)
tl;dr In my life, most of the black men/white women couples who I’ve known were formed by a combination of proximity and female-led interest, not by some imagined/projected black male monomania for non-black women. After 10+ years of living in white-majority areas of the planet, I’ve noticed (and actually been) among the black men who eagerly chase any available black woman who even approaches the realm of attractive (best and worst example tied into one knot: a friend of mine who dated a black woman until he got tired of her vulgarity. When they broke up, she literally ran after him for two blocks, yelling about how she was better than a “living cum-rag, not someone to just dump a load into and throw away.” By exposing over 300 people to that tirade, that black woman became persona non grata at that base because even non-“sensitive”/”wanna be white” black men don’t see the idea of having a woman yell obscenities at them in public to be an attractive attribute. Of course, the woman in question ignored the fact that she embarrassed herself and hundreds of other people when she would later talk about how “black men can’t deal with a strong black woman with opinions!”, as if loudly broadcasting the details of your sex life to strangers is supposed to be a *good thing*, never mind an attractor. And yes, I’ve been the guy to walk away from non-black women who tried to pull the “Lil’ Kim” act in order to earn cred.)
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@thordaddy
Either, black man can have sexual relations with anyone he pleases EXCEPT white women (because that is self-hatred) or black man can have sexual relations with white woman because it “pleases” him (has NOTHING to do with self-hatred).
I’ve said it before and I will say it again – there are NO absolutes.
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@ Thordaddy
You know, right, that that is not an argument. You are just repeating yourself and saying I am wrong.
That would be like if I did this:
@ Thordaddy
Black men are not at war with white men. You are so wrong!
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@ Thordaddy
Call me naive, but I think black men are fully capable of doing both at the same time. It is not an either/or thing.
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Mr. Scientist,
What “parameters” did I place around you?
What do scientists call the belief in, “I can have sex with whomever I please?” Do they have a name for this phenomenon?
I call it radical (not normal/not healthy/not justifiable) sexual (relating to all things orgasmically pleasureable) autonomy (a total
freedom in act and thought).
Those who believe that they can have sex with whomever they please ARE DESTRUCTIVE for the very self-evident reason that they believe that such belief is consequence-free. This is part of their “radicalism.” Even when the destruction of this mentality is RIGHT HERE for all to read, they still stand in denial.
Black man NOR black woman is about to give up their radical sexual autonomy. So they’ll just fall comfortably back into the arms of “white supremacy.”
You stuck on stunted, Mr. Scientist. Your discipline brokers no real passion in life. Your discipline is incredibly sterile. No virility to be found. We’re all robots in your world.
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If you’re talking what kind of marriages have the highest success rate you’re talking white men and Black women. We’ve both been told from the beginning to put our mates on a pedestal. Black women appreciate when you’re chivalrous to them, it’s not something they just expect. They can throw down in the kitchen, when they take care of themselves they stay sexy into their sixties, and the contrast of olive skin on brown when you wrap your arms around them is such a turn on. Plus marriage to a Black women produces some beautiful tan-skinned children.
When I popped the question to my then girlfriend all the white girls started oohing and ahhing and squealing over her engagement ring. The Black girls became withdrawn. Marriage is something they just never saw in their future. It’s pretty obvious that if a Black woman wants a husband who provides for her, a stable family, a loving home—what women have always wanted throughout history—she’s going to have to marry out. That’s why you see more white men with Black women than you did ten years ago, even five years ago, maybe even three years ago.
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Sorry for being late to the party.
First, the most laughable point:
less concerned about money
Mwuahahahaa… Yeah, right.
Now, where were we? I’d say, if black men – or any other group of people, for any reason – are brainwashed/silly to believe these stereotypes, then so be it. If they can’t see the truth with their own eyes then they fully deserve to marry a golddigger who will chase them with a golf club (not that I don’t understand Elin Nordegren’s feelings in that incident).
That being said, I support interracial relationships with all my heart. If I weren’t married I would be open to a men of a different race. However, nobody wants to be with someone just because their race so it would be a huge no-no. And if I’m with a black man, the moment he starts trash-talking about black women is the moment I’m leaving the relationship.
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What really cracks me up is that Seal and Heidi Klum have split, Kim Kardashian changes men more often than she changes underwear (which are probably black too, LOL), and Tiger Woods cheated on his white wife with many other white women. Yes, that’s just absolute proof of their innate superiority and ‘ability to please a man’! 😆
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sam,
It seems inconsistent that in a dating context you equate race to merely “skin color”, but in discussions regarding social issues such as education and economics, you indicate that race carries with it important factors such as history, culture, and heritage.
Are all peoples exactly the same except for the outer paint job, or are they not?
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@abagond
First time commenting on your great blog!
I think the main issue within the BC is the level of paranoia and suspicion, which leads to many of us being quick to condemn, or try to ‘expose’ a self hating traitor.
I’m a young Black British female and from my own personal observations and from talking to a lot of individuals the BW who object to this kind of union feel betrayed because they have to suffer so much oppression only to lose out to WW. Of course most recent stats contradict this view but nonetheless it persists in the community. Also my brother who is currently studying medicine has dated WW in the past, not because he was necessarily more attracted to them but because they bombarded him with compliments and dating opportunities where BW who he approached openly mocked and rejected him in favour of ‘flash cars’ and shopping sprees and fancy dates.
I also think that maybe a lot of people forget that all of these racist principles and agenda have stemed from the white mans insecurity.
I’m not the most learned individual but the insecurities held by white men namely:
1) Although some regions of Africa have been colonized in the Past, the continent as a whole hasn’t been.
2) Aids/disease, Poverty, Illiteracy etc have not effected the reproductivity/population growth of Black people (hence the legislation regarding birth control – which I have my own sinister theories on).
3) On the whole if there weren’t so many young BM dead/incarcerated etc I doubt many current BW/WM relationships would occur, (I personally believe that BW are more loyal then any other women and WM know this and are unnerved by it).
Hence the myths perpetuated, false data and supporting institutions.
I am all for loving whom you choose and racial equality but theres no denying that historically WM have been swindlers, who if down on their luck decide to ‘explore’ only to capture and rape land and natives wherever they end up leaving a path of destruction in their wake. Even though as a community we are in dire straights we are surviving and persevering, we just need to stop getting distracted by arguing about things that don’t concern us (ie. each others private lives) and restore and maintain our communities which in my opinion are of greater concern then BM/WW.
I’m just waiting for Richard Branson and co to find some planet in space upon which they can inhabit and overrun the natives:P
(The opinons stated above are in no way meant to relect all individuals belonging to any one group just merely some alternate viewpoints)
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Peanut says,
I will say this though, I know some Black men are EMBARRASSED by Black women. I think because black women are the lowest on the socio-sexual totem pole and our beauty is maligned constantly. some black men don’t want to be associated with having the “lowest” women on the totem pole and they also don’t want to have be seen as having the “ugliest,” women that no other man wants. so they’re embarrassed by black women and they try to prove to white/non-black men that “hey, we don’t like them either…they’re not ours.” some black men are out to prove this to white men, so they bash black women and go out after ambiguous/light/white women, instead of realizing that if they wanted to elevate the status of Black women they should actually start valuing Black women more, not less.
so, i know srgtwilliepete said in some of his videos that he was embarrassed that white men allegedly “don’t want” Black women because we wear weaves and we’re all over weight and stuff. He would make comments about how his white frat boy friends would say stuff like “dude, black girls aren’t hot!”
and I guess for him, it was humiliating to have the woman that no other man wants.
But all the while, he doesn’t realize that his white friends are brainwashed by beauty standards too and in fact, most white women in America are over weight, just as most Black women are and actually on a global scale, Black women are LESS likely to be over weight than white women because of under nutrition in predominately black countries whereas predominately white countries are more likely to be affluent with access to food.
but some cowardly black men just want to keep up with Jones and bash black women because they’re embarrassed that we’re on the bottom of the totem pole.
Its pathetic that some black men need to have white male validation to appreciate the beauty of their own race women.
laromana says,
EXCELLENT comments, Peanut.
ANTI-BW BM are the ONLY men on the planet who PUBLICLY TRASH their SAME RACE women and allow others to do the same.
These USELESS/DISRESPECTFUL/ POS ANTI-BW BM don’t deserve the life BW CHOSE to give them in the first place.
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Also I agree with the points raised by peanut and ashante in this discussion
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from: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/black-men-white-women/#comment-110150
from: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/black-men-white-women/#comment-110150
I think this is is the best answer to this whole debate. I suggest youread NaMu1977s post in its enitirety. It makes sense, none of the media brainwashing, “its because of slavery” bullsh!t.
Also , I notice that in these these debates, I notice taht no one actually asks a black man who is in a relationship with awhite woman what his reasons are. Not that lower- or middle- class black men’s opinions count for much anywhere
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I suggest you Google “Men’s Rights”, “Men going their own way” or “Pick up Artists” and you will see that misogyny is alive and well in other races of men.
You can remove the “Anti-BW” from in front of the BM. You don’t that qualifier to express how you really feel.
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@thordaddy:
“Those who believe that they can have sex with whomever they please ARE DESTRUCTIVE for the very self-evident reason that they believe that such belief is consequence-free.”
I think you should have some sex more often. I have sex every now and then with women and it feels good. It feels very good while doing it and it feels good after the act it self. Thus far, after some thirty plus years of sex, there has not been any bad consequenses from it. You should try it. Sex in a good thing. I have no idea why are so up tight with it, unless you do not get enough sex. Perhaps that is why you get so irritated by the whole idea of two people having such a good time.
@randy:
“It seems inconsistent that in a dating context you equate race to merely “skin color”, but in discussions regarding social issues such as education and economics, you indicate that race carries with it important factors such as history, culture, and heritage.
Are all peoples exactly the same except for the outer paint job, or are they not?”
From my personal view the color of skin is of no importance, not more than color of the hair etc. Unfortunately, in racist systems, color of skin carries more meanings. One day it won’t but we are not there yet.
And to answer to your question: Yes. We are biologically the same. It is the cultures that separates us more than our skin color.
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Sam,
Maybe you should have a few daughters and sons like me so some day you can teach that they may have sex with whomever they please and it will be consequence-free.
You’re in a fantasy land like most “abstract liberals.”
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Abagond,
Just so we are clear.
Are you saying that the American black man IS NOT at war with the white man and his “white supremacy” in a struggle for his BLACK liberation?
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Wish I had something constructive to offer, but according the WNs on the web, this is the black person’s best hope at improving our stock. Bullshit I know, but perhaps this was the intended message/idea all along: blackness is undesirable and must go. So hurry up as soon as you’re successful and go fuck a woman. Then tell your halfbreed kids to do the same thing. We’ll get those nigger genes out of you yet. It worked in England and Portugal, heh, heh…..
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@thordaddy
“The better question for you is what exactly have I said in regards to black man/white woman that you DON’T AGREE WITH?”
I am not going to answer, because I do not want to encourage you to write more. At this point you should be able to notice that you are pretty much having a discussion with yourself. This means that either the other commenters are dumb and unable to understand you or that there is nothing to understand because you are rambling like a crazy homeless person. Either way, the discussion is pretty much over and you should consider switching to another blog/forum.
Maybe that one?
http://bronies.deviantart.com/blog/
Those guys are into cartoon horses. How radically sexually autonomous is that?!
@Bulanik
“eco also believes it is SINCERELY DOUBTFUL that any black woman could be as beautiful as any white woman….”
No, I sincerely doubt that in the conditions Peanut described, a Black woman would be seen as equally attractive as the white woman. I probably should have been more clear about that.
You clearly didn’t understand the rest of my comment. I do not believe Black women should be sexualized any more. That wasn’t my point at all. It was basically a “what if” scenario, not a solution leading to a better future.
@Peanut
“It’s very true when Eartha Kitt, Dorothy Dandridge and Lena Horne came out Hollywood did not know what to do with them. They were too attractive to be used as maids or mammies, so that is why they were seldom seen in non-black movies. This is very true and you can read all about this in books, check out Donald Bogle. We discussed this in one of my classes, so you can doubt it, but it’s very true.”
I definitely should have been more precise. I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant to point out the fact that putting two attractive actresses, a white one and a black one, wouldn’t make people perceive them as equally beautiful. I think it’s safe too assume white people would have focused mainly on the white actress.
Would Black women, who aren’t interested in white men, suddenly started seeing them in a different light if Brad Pitt did a movie with Denzel Washington? It’s not that simple.
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Demerera,
Your statement refutes itself. It’s evidence of one’s “radical autonomy.”
“There are no absolutes” IS an absolute statement.
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Eco,
Seriously, you can’t comprehend the hilarity of an “abstract liberal” attempting to write with authority and command?
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@Bulanik
I should have been clear about that “I sincerely doubt that” comment, the rest of it, the part about the sexualization, is understandable and you kinda missed my point.
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“I’m not the most learned individual but the insecurities held by white men namely:
1) Although some regions of Africa have been colonized in the Past, the continent as a whole hasn’t been.
2) Aids/disease, Poverty, Illiteracy etc have not effected the reproductivity/population growth of Black people (hence the legislation regarding birth control – which I have my own sinister theories on).
3) On the whole if there weren’t so many young BM dead/incarcerated etc I doubt many current BW/WM relationships would occur, (I personally believe that BW are more loyal then any other women and WM know this and are unnerved by it).”
Boy this site is filled with sista soulja’s pandering to insecure black men. LOL PATHETIC! Ya got anymore feel good quotes for tha brotha’s lol
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“watches eco wave confederate flag solemnly”
Its quite telling that eco would be identified in this way by a white commenter no less, particularly when you see the response to this comment below:-
“That is why there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that you don’t put equally attractive Black women and white women in equal roles in Hollywood, because then God forbid people would see that beauty has no color and white women aren’t superior to Black women.”
@eco I sincerely doubt that.
This is the same individual who dismmisses overt racism on the sports field as ‘banter’, maintaining that it is not harmful yet, he seems to know how to utilise it in an implicit, yet detrimental manner when he chooses…..
In terms of the topic at hand, of the WW I have encountered in IRR with BM, some of them have boasted about the fact that their parents/peers would not approve of their union. They have chosen to rebel and see the BM as the perfect weapon demonstrate to their defiance, thrusting this in the faces of those who they want to hurt. Clearly as a basis for relationship, it is doomed from the beginning. I can think of an example where a WW, (whom I had know as a child and who’s parents were not tolerant of such relationships) had 2 kids from different men BM. She was always bemoaning her situation and the men involved, running down their ‘black b*stard arses’ (her words) and saying how useless they were. As part of the conversation, another female brought up a different guy, who was a ‘friend’ of one of her men. The girl said, ‘is he Black?’, the woman said ‘yes’, and the WW said, ‘I dont f*ckin know which one he is, they all look alike to me!!!!’. Obviously, as she couldnt discern between who her baby father was and the next man opened her legs to that impregnated her – classy!!!
Obviously that is not the same for ALL of these unions. I have a few friends who are in this type of relationship and I see something real and true. I have to say that, the majority of them have been in relationships with people of their own ‘race’ at one time or another too. I will be honest and admit that this gives them slightly more credibility than other examples of this kind to me but I KNOW there are exceptions to EVERY rule…
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@Thordaddy
One reason black people don’t have to mate with one another is the one drop role, or basically racism, even a half black man/mulatto/whatever the proper term is nowadays, like Obama is just considered black.
So I suppose if you look at it as a perspective of “war”, it would be one of attrition, having children who are half black are culturally considered black and thus percentagewise the population of black people would only have grown whereas the population of white people would have shrunk by that pairing.
Though I’m not sure if that goes against your idea of sex with white women as an act of war against the white race….
@Sam/Shady
Mexicans are caucasians, Indians (from India) are caucasian, just being caucasian doesn’t make you white.
Basically the white scale more or less; those who are racially and culturally the whitest, Irish have some black phenotypes in them and their language is based on african ways of speaking, not european.
The Jews of course fall under the one drop rule, being 3-5% black basically cuts them out of it but they can still “barely” get in at near the bottom, I guess right above the Italians due to having more of a “white” culture.
As for the Italians, well I think we all know about them.
And your various finnish, swedish, russian sorts fall under the “asian” whites.
This is hardly a scientific scale, as much “feeling” as anything else.
I do have to say one thing that this blog has taught me about is the extreme differences in how PoC view “race” and how White People view race and who PoC view as White compared to who White People view as “white”.
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@thordaddy
Your statement refutes itself. It’s evidence of one’s “radical autonomy.”
“There are no absolutes” IS an absolute statement.
It is a statement yes, but it is not absolute in its entirety…
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@eco
No, I sincerely doubt that in the conditions Peanut described, a Black woman would be seen as equally attractive as the white woman. I probably should have been more clear about that.
You clearly didn’t understand the rest of my comment. I do not believe Black women should be sexualized any more. That wasn’t my point at all. It was basically a “what if” scenario, not a solution leading to a better future.
I too am guilty of not getting this particular comment – I concede that my response above may not be appropriate in this situation
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@Demerera
“This is the same individual who dismmisses overt racism on the sports field as ‘banter’, maintaining that it is not harmful yet, he seems to know how to utilise it in an implicit, yet detrimental manner when he chooses….. ”
Four straw men in one sentence. Is that a record?
I haven’t dismissed overt racism on any sports field.
I haven’t called it “banter”.
I’ve never said it’s not harmful.
I wasn’t intending to insult anyone with that “i sincerely doubt” comment.
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@bulanik
Demerera, correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t 50% of black men in the UK in relationships with white women? Fifty per cent.
I cant confirm or refute otherwise bulanik but I will say that even in my locality, of the IRR examples I see, the pairings are predominantly that of BM/WW
I think US Census figures for MARRIAGE between black men and white women is about 8.5%, so, that means of the black men that do marry, at least 91% are married to non-white women.
The figures in the UK are very different in comparison, aren’t they?
Based on the statisics you have given, yes. The unions of BM/WW in modern day society, dont seem to result in marriage, – I wonder if this differs from the earlier pairings of BM/WW say in the 50’s and 60’s and is more a reflection of ‘todays society’ than anything else?
Does this indicate that the attitude of perceiving black women as ‘repulsive’ is, regrettably, not isolated, nor the outgrowth of some particular black female lunatic fringe?
I think that unfortunately, there are some truths in what abagond asserts above as the reasons why some BM might choose a WW but, I think it might be valuable to hear from some of the BM commenters on here who chose not to date IR. Those who hear the stereotypes and myths about BW that get bandied about and despite this, do not deviate from finding a BW for a partner.
The guy on the Vanessa Feltz show is nothing new – One mixed race guy I knew worked with me in a predominantly WM environment and continually faced derision from his peers, mainly centering around his race and the fact that he only dated WW. After one particularly stressful morning, fending off their comments he sought me out to talk to and explained that ‘his dad had told him to steer clear, BW are too much hassle’ yet, as he was talking to me, I didnt sense any conviction at all – merely incomprehension and confusion as to why his white peers didnt revere him for holding WW in esteem by chosing to date them rather than BW. I asked him if he had ever dated a BW, and he said he had, once but, when he cheated on her, she went mad – this apparently confirmed what his dad said on one level, yet from further discussions with him I could tell this didnt rest easily with him…
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One of the main issues in any IR dating discussion is the belief some people have that men and women of the same race somehow “belong” to each other; that they are “natural” partners to each other. Intra-racial pairings are product of certain historical circumstances (well, race is a product of historical circumstances), but there are no “our” vs “your” women/men.
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Now, how many here ACTUALLY REJECT radical sexual autonomy???
How about masturbaters? What’s your take on them? They are the epitome of narcissists!
Johnson angered whites and blacks in his day but he lived how he wanted to anyway. That’s a man.
Jack Johnson married and hooked up with mostly prostitutes. He doesn’t count.
I don’t know about anyone here but I am glad these white behind kissers have taken themselves out of the gene pool!
But then again, I haven’t heard you actually reject radical sexual autonomy.
He’s too busy to entertain your lunacy.
Reject the idea that your future son or daughter should reject radical sexual autonomy.
Okay. Promote masturbation instead. That way you won’t have to worry about these things, such as who is hooking up with who. So what if they don’t have any kids, the purity of the white race will have been preserved!
You may disagree, but that’s just because you know nothing about MY HOUSE.
Try cleaning it first then we will talk! On second thought, forget it.
Do you really think it’s immoral for black women to take offense at the sight of a black man and white woman.
It depends on how good looking the man is! Otherwise who gives a sheet?
I already know what you think. You’re a black liberationist.
No he’s not, he’s Jamaican descent, big difference.
I’m sure I’m not the only one on to your little sham.
You are absolutely correct! I beg to differ on the value of his comments though, they are hilarious for the very reasons you give, they’re intentional. Something out of a satire.
No one has rebutted you because arguing with you is a waste of time.
I’ll say! It is especially hilarious that he doesn’t realize this. Like I said satirical.
these women are considered the “dregs” by white culture, thereby creating a dynamic of black men accepting the “scraps” left by white men? Or perhaps an admixture of these concepts?
A bit of both I would say. The broads I see are humongous, not ‘thick’. Many of them use walkers and canes due to the pressure on their joints of being like that! The black men are able to hoist them with their huge muscles!
1. Black man CAN SEX whomever HE PLEASES (Abagond, Ace, Sam, etc. all agreed on this one).
Does that include sexing you? Maybe you want a black man to go autonomously sexual(or whatever you call it), on you. This would be part and parcel with the rest of your ilk(white supremacists) who are obsessed with black mens’ sexuality.
Sam,
You are too dense for my discussions
I disagree it is you who are dense. In fact, you are a typical narcissist, one armed bandit. If anyone is an auto-eroticist or anatomist or an astronaut, it is you sir. How do you explain a preponderance of bestiality among whites? They love pumping horses, cats and dogs! I am familiar with a case where a toothless man was fondling male horses genitals. What do you call that sort of behaviour in your vaunted philosophical soliloquies? Seriously, nothing you babble has to do with the topic at hand! Get a grip!
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On another occasion, in a discussion with friends, one man said that the black man and white woman was the sex-race apex, the true Romeo and Juliet of human sexuality 🙂
I honestly don’t understand what is meant by this. Two lovers who die in the end?
I think it’s always best to stay away from individuals who will use you or your relationship as some kind of a statement. Find somebody else for that and leave me alone.
As for black men being happy to be used for sex by white women: let’s not forget they still have their male privilege. Males are raised to see their sexuality as something positive. It’s often difficult to explain them that they are the ones degraded by the act. On the other hand, if you don’t feel degraded, is that the real degradation?
If some people seek only sex and nothing more, and if they don’t mind throwing racist slurs and stereotypes at each other – heck, if they find it arousing – good for them. I have nothing about it.
But to talk about IR relationships as inherently more sexual (in a “bad”, twisted, “unnatural” way), well, I have a problem with that.
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well, back to what i and other sista’s have been saying. you should marry who you feel comfortable with, marriage is hard EVERYDAY!! but i would like to say, i DO NOT feel ww/bm couples are genuine at all. YES I MEAN AT ALL!!! NOT A ONE!!! just look at heidi klum and seal they are a perfect example. all that renewing their vows every year and all their parties. but behind closed doors he cut a fool on her and let her REALLY KNOW how he felt about her white azz. HE DIDNT REALLY LIKE HER!!! and prob BECAUSE SHE WAS WHITE!!! she finally got the memo and stepped.
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What I think this particular person was saying that these lovers were kept apart, and it was some kind of ‘special’ archetypal pairing… The ‘ideal, if you can call it that, and something which appealed to him.
I see. And don’t forget the two families accept each other after the lovers are dead, so it’s a bonus! 😛
I honestly don’t see Romeo and Juliet as archetypal pairing, or black men and white women. Why not black women and white men? or any other “combination” if we’re talking about IR relationships.
I mean, from what I gather, black men/white women pairings are along the most popular IR pairings, topped only by white men/Asian women ones. I honestly don’t see anything highly “unusual” about them. I guess IR couples are still seen as “controversial” by some people, and sadly, they can still get you in trouble at certain places, but they are very common among IR pairings. Hey, you can almost say they are “default” IR coupling (= the one that most people think when they think IR couples). What I’m saying is, there’s nothing “speshul snowflake” about them.
Yes, of course black men have male privilege, and they certainly aren’t afraid of using it when it suits…
Exactly. No amount of racism can erase sexism with certain men. That is usually shown towards the way they treat the women they know best – black women. And they keep their sexual privilege when they decide to be with a white woman. So even if she says some racist stuff, such as: “I want to bang his huge, N… $%#%^%”, he is more likely to think: “oh, this white slut” or something, thank to see himself degraded and objectified.
Not all black men, of course. And not all who date white women. But some sure do.
Sometimes I think black men give white woman a pass where they wouldn’t to white men… Or black women, for that matter.
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I don’t see what the big deal about this post is. I’ve had more then a few IR relationships in my own extended family and it really isn’t that big a deal. Some work out and some don’t.
PS: Please don’t encourage Thordaddy – oy vay what an !@#
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Herneith,
What’s funny about all your masturbatory-laden poems and thoughts is that if you look elsewhere you will see a similar ire from the white de facto homos in the MRA/alt-right sphere towards my condemnation of their SELF-Sexualizing ways.
Now, if that word (self-sexualizer) is too incomprehensible for you just think about what you like to think about. Voilà.
So remember, when the black man and black woman agree that they may have sexual relations with whomever they please THEY ARE INCLUDING THEMSELVES.
They are asserting their “right” to self-sexualize.
Now, if you took that fundamental definition of RADICAL SEXUAL AUTONOMY (what is more radically sexually “free” than Herneith’s addiction to the “jerk.”) AND MADE IT A PRINCIPLE STAND, what might happen?
Self-annihilation?
You go, thing. I’m not trying to save you. Not even in my power to do so UNLESS I can convince you that your “right” to self-sexualize is the path to self-annihilation.
I won’t hold my breath. Corrupt minds fight vigorously for corrupt things.
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Peanut,
I didn’t mean it in a way to say “people of the group I belong to”, and I didn’t mean it in a way of possession (in slave sense of the word). I meant on belief that people of the opposite gender who are of your race (or other group” ethnic, religious, etc.) are somehow “natural” partners for you. That the union with these people is default – and anything else (having a relationship outside the group) is something not quite right/highly controversial. In reality, races are cultural constructs so dating outside your race is as “unnatural” as dating someone with a different eye colour. In short, white women don’t “belong” to white men; white men aren’t their “natural” partners. At the end of the day, people are dating individuals. And if they don’t see it that way, if they see their partner as a race and not a person, then yes, we have a problem. But in no way I think people should see in-group pairings as inherently more “normal” or “natural” than dating outside one’s group.
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Now, if that word (self-sexualizer) is too incomprehensible for you just think about what you like to think about. Voilà.
Get a grip dear! Drink some green tea, put your feet up and watch some television or read a book! If that doesn’t work, you can self sexualize or vaporize yourself take your pick!
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I haven’t had time to read all of the comments. So, I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this. If they did, I apologize.
Do you all remember the short movie “A Girl Like Me”? If not:
http://www.understandingrace.org/lived/video/index.html
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Herneith,
You can’t believe that a thorDaddy of four, with all these radical autonomists swirling about, has got much time to kick his feet up, can you?
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Honestly I see Black guys my age and older with lighter, White, Latina and Asian women ALL THE BLASTED time! Sometimes it makes me think that Black men don’t love Black women anymore. I see a lot of Black guys with White and Latina girls at my high school,
Forest and it grieves me that they don’t pay attention to any Black girls. I know a lot of us Black girls are loud, ghetto, nasty and annoying but not all of us are like that. I know I am NOT like that at all! Not in the least bit althugh I am opinionated. All those nasty Black girls who are ghetto, obese and gross make me and other decent Black girls look bad.
Andthe thing about it, why all are these Black men degrading the women in their race? Aren’t their mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers etc Black? Yup, they are! Yet they degrade us in their music videos and online because even the believe the sterotypes that the media and society puts out about Black women. And they should give us a chance too afterall, they are part of this race too, but sadly they have been lied to by the media.
I love seeing Michelle and Barack Obama together because they are beautiful Black family that is settled down and married and I want that for my future children. I want to find a Black man that I can settle down with and marry and have children with and live in nice house when I grow up.
And I thank God for Black men like Menelik Charles who thinks Black women are beautiful like Abagond. That is what Black men are suppose to think of their women:beautiful, strong, independent, and most of all, the MOST BEAUTFUL AND DESIRABLE WOMEN IN THE WORLD!. THAT IS WHAT OTHER RACES OF MEN THINK OF THEIR WOMEN! THEY DON’T GO AROUND DEGRADING THEIR WOMEN THE WAY BLACK MEN DEGRADE BLACK WOMEN!
Plus since supposedly 70% of Black women are supposedly single including mother, maybe Black women’s population would decrease and Black would die off in America. And eveyone would wonder wherre all the Blacks went. Then it would be realized that Black men breeded out the Black race in America. I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened. Maybe it wouldn’t happen in my lifetime but maybe in the next.
No, I am NOTtrying to sound desperate but I am trying to say acurate. Yes, I am upset over how ALOT OF BLACk MEN completely abandon us Black women.
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If this attraction between Black men and White women is mainly to do with the stereotypes in society about each group, I would think White women would only be interested in temporary relationships with Black men and not marriage. Wouldn’t the average White woman be frightened away from marriage by the negative stereotypes about Black men, or is the average White woman who is interested Black men supposed to be a little more enlightened?
I think a White woman who has married a Black man HAS to have more knowledge than the average White woman… I do not think it is a good idea to go into a into an interracial marriage with the White partner having no clue about the realities of race in society and how it affects people of colour.
I live in East Asia and the same applies here. White women are seen as much more open and also promiscuous compared to the local women. The actual behaviour of each group of women is completely ignored in favour of this stereotypical fantasy.
In the UK, the most common interracial pairings I see are between Black men and White women. Another thing I have also noticed is that, more often than not, the White women the Black men choose are pale, blonde and blue-eyed.
I knew a young man who was half Black and half White and he made it very clear he hated himself for being half Black. He exclusively dated White women. He grew up only with his White mother AND in an area where the far majority of people are White, so I guess it is no surprise that it was ingrained in him that White is beautiful.
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50 years ago, a black man couldn’t so much as whistle at a white woman without risking his life. In 2012, anyone and everyone can join the dogpiling on black women – and if the black men aren’t actively leading the violence, they damn sure aren’t defending her or trying to dig her out. When the “statistics” of 50% of black women having herpes came out – I was not shocked to see black men being the fastest to repost that to everyone they could. Do you think white men would have had the same reaction? Would we see white comedians joking and poking fun of STD-ridden white women, like D. L. Hughley so eagerly joked about “nappy headed hos?”
White men have been so zealously protective of their women that it has led them to kill. Contrast that with the widespread lack of respect that black men have for black women today. When have we EVER been protected like that? When has there EVER been a knee-jerk response of black men collectively to publicly and loudly defend us when assaults on our dignity and humanity are made?
There is something very, very wrong with this imbalance, and you don’t have to be someone who hates people who are in relationships with someone of a different race to realize this.
I am a young black woman in her mid-twenties who grew up in upper-middle-class suburbs – and yet, despite almost exclusively having romantic and sexual relationships with white men for the majority of my life, I started out in elementary school being attracted to black males. They were not attracted to me, and the subsequent years of sexual abuse – all at the hands of black males, some familiar, some not – and the continual psychological terrorism of street harassment to this day – again, ONLY at the hands of black males – has made me lose any and all interest. I don’t think all black men are bad – I know they are not. I have a brother who is amazing. I have a father (married to my mother) who is the same. I know kindness toward black women is possible in the hearts of black men. But due to past trauma, I’m not sure I am willing to go through the hordes of black men who – despite all reason to do so – cannot, will not, and refuse to have my best interests at heart to find the guy who can and will.
I know this is about black men and white women, but I needed to say that to get to the relevant point. In an ideal world free of racism, self-hatred, and denial, we could all sit around and shrug our shoulders and act like the decisions we make and the “preferences” that we have are 100% made in a vacuum, undisturbed by known and unknown, conscious and sub-conscious psychological factors. But as I stated – I have my preference for a reason. I have thought about it and I understand how it came about. I am not going to lie to myself and to others and say that it’s “just a preference”. I’m not even going to argue that it’s right – I don’t feel like it is, and I would like to be able to be in a relationship with a black man without fear that he will not see me as a human being, or will defend me if I am attacked. However, at this point I cannot reasonably do that, and it would be a waste of both of our time – and unfair to him – if I tried to engage in a relationship with someone who I would not be able to ever feel comfortable with. I am honest about these reasons. I do not think many black men in relationships with white women are honest about their reasons, however. It is definitely possible that two people can fall in love and be compatible, but just happen to be of different races. I also understand that the vast majority of black men marry black women… but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they do not agree on some level with the negative sentiments espoused by the black-woman hating black men who date interracially. If that were not the case, then the street harassment and domestic violence rates between black men and women would not be so extraordinarily high. I’m pretty sure the men who have harassed me in public do not all date non-black women.
But I think the discrepancy between the percent of black men who marry a non-black woman and black women who marry a non-black man can and does say something. The reasons of military service, higher learning and limited access to black women for this discrepancy is not something that I really see evidence for in society at large. Intellectually, they are sound reasons why black men would be with non-black women; however, the overwhelmingly majority of BM/non-BW couplings I see and know of are definitely not the result of being in the armed service or living overseas or in predominately-white areas for higher education. I live in a mixed income area and the BM/non-BW pairings are usually lower-class black men with trashy seeming white women – and this is NOT a military town, nor college town, yet I feel some days I see more BM/non-BW pairings than BM/BW. If it is not that type of coupling, then it is the clean-cut, well-dressed black man with his white trophy wife. In fact, one time I was walking toward a mall entrance and saw a man of this type with his back to me – and I IMMEDIATELY thought “he’s probably with a white woman.” Lo and behold, as I got closer, I saw that he was actually taking a picture of his white wife and their infant child. I agree mostly with Peanut – black women, physically speaking, have long been maligned as the lowest on the attractiveness totem pole, and instead of defending us and praising us in mass against the constant onslaught in the media of eurocentrist beauty ideals, I think many black men internalize the message and take the easy way out if they can – joining the dogpile to try to earn points with the white people in power and choosing to date and marry white women because it’s “easier.” It’s easier to be with someone who is praised and envied 24/7 in your society than it is to be with someone blamed for most of its ills. It’s easier when you don’t have to see people who look like your partner constantly demonized, objectified, and harshly criticized for anything from actions to looks to what they are doing to what they’re not doing enough of. It’s easier when you can come home at the end of the day to and sit at the dinner table with someone who didn’t have to face the same trials as you out in the world by living as a minority. You don’t have to shoulder their burdens as well as your own.
It’s easier all right… but not in the ways they are claiming it is (i.e. “less attitude/more doting/blah blah blah”). These reasons have never, ever made sense to me, as black women have displayed unparalleled support and devotion to black men – even when they have thrown it in our faces and peed all over that devotion. As far as being “easier to bed” – how can white men think of us as Jezebels and black men blame us for being too reserved and uptight in bed? Boy, these b.s. reasons to hate black women sure do get confusing at times. I think the BM/WW pairings who are truly, 100% unaffected by racist influences (on both ends i.e. two people just happen to meet and fall in love, are completely compatible on a soul-mate like level and just incidentally happen to be of different races) is likely much rarer than anyone would admit. The trouble is that if you ask many pairings outright, they’d give p.c. answers indicating that race had nothing to do with their partnership. I think again, the discrepancy in the interracial BM vs BW relationships prove that something else is a factor.
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“Mexicans are caucasians, Indians (from India) are caucasian, just being caucasian doesn’t make you white.”
Though typical Mexicans (to me) are often more indigenous than European in phenotype, they are generally racially classified as ‘Caucasian’ rather than ‘Mestizo’ on this side of the border, so I do get what you’re saying. Other than that, and the notion that so-called ‘Blacks’ can be any shade or phenotype under the sun according to the One Drop rule, whites, to my mind, have to at least have a pale complexion in order to qualify as ‘white’. Europeans with olive, tan and outright brown complexions are not truly white, but can only be honorary ‘whites’; and others classified as ‘Caucasian’, such as many Middle Easterners and nearly all the peoples of the Indian subcontinent, are not generally viewed as white in the US in any way, shape or form.
Ha! My own ‘Black’ mother was lighter in overall coloring (e.g., pale skin, green eyes and ash blonde hair) than the light tan skinned, dark-eyed, dark-haired Kim Kardashian, so I personally have a hard time viewing Kim (who is only a tad bit lighter than me) as being ‘white’ . . . .
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“yes you can say biracial/black women are still Black and yes they deal with racism, but there’s some privilege there too when it comes to certain things.”
Yes, as a light-skinned racially-ambiguous Black woman of mixed heritage, I’ve dealt with racism, but I’ve also been able to bypass some of the more overt racism experienced by my more noticeably sub-Saharan African descended peers.
I personally have experienced non-Blacks (meaning other PoC, not just whites) making some of the most racist remarks imaginable in my presence because they viewed me as being non-Black. I’ve also had darker skinned Black men confide in me their distain for dark skin because they thought I, as a light skinned BW, would be greatly appreciative of such self-hatred . . . .
It ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.
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“When the “statistics” of 50% of black women having herpes came out”
Which from the very beginning was bull s h i t.
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@ Parfun Bleu,
I have seen that both ways as well. I have noticed that many Black men who talk to two Black women will often talk to the obviously lighter skinned one as if he’s interested in her, views her as intelligent he tries to inquiry about her racial background (and often in a very offensive manner) and usually seems disinterested in the darker skinned woman. He seems to think that openly disrespecting the dark skinned one in front of the lighter skinned one will make the lighter skinned one impressed with him or flattered.
Lighter skinned women (of any ethnicity, but especially of African descent) receive a certain kind of skin privilege; to racists they aren’t “dark” enough to earn their ire, but they aren’t “white” enough to earn their respect. That is probably why so many of them think of throwing their lack of “blackness” in their face whenever they think it’s appropriate, even if it’s hurtful to her (She very well might have a dark skinned mother, after all). Many racists (and self-hating people of color) truly view it as a compliment to tell women of color how they “must be part Indian, can’t be all black, she’s too pretty”.
Black women (even with dark skin) who have features that aren’t considered “black” (even though black women do not all have the “typical features” because black people have a lot of variation, just like everyone else) deal with the same thing. Heck, a Black woman who talks “white enough” can get those same backhanded compliments that mess with her self-esteem just as much as if she were insulted to her face for being Black.
It’s like, all of a sudden your “better” and therefore your supposed to “get” those anti-Black women statements and agree with them.
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Parfum Bleu,
Sorry about mispelling your name like that. I mean no disrespect.
Also, yeah, typical, it was a crock of bull, just like how “75% of black women have children out of wedlock”. Same lies as the “welfare queen”. Black women are on the bottom of the totem pole and therefore have little to no support, and often they are punished for fighting back by being called “angry” and “unstable”.
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“I enjoy being around positive Black men why would I discount the positive Black men in my life and generalize them by putting them in the same box with the self-hating black men?
I’m not going to do that, I have a father who has provided for me, a God Father who sends me checks, two older brothers who look out for me, black cousins that I hang out with, Great Uncles and Grandfathers who have contributed to my life. I’m not going to overlook that. I’ve seen positive Black men so i would never generalize all Black men into one box.”
I myself am open to dating men of all races. I most say though that when I come across the type of Black man whom you’ve just described, there is at least a temporary sense of “all is right with the world” which I’ve never experienced when dating non-Black men.
IDK. Maybe it has to do with the pervasiveness of anti-Black hatred in the world, and, because of this, it might not be easy to put one’s trust in non-Blacks in such a situation.
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Regarding the video with the English House Negro on the Vanessa Feltz show with the Black woman hatred, it did seem to me even though Feltz is in a relationship with a Black man that she was enjoying his behaviour and getting a kick out of it, but I’m not surprised at the sentiments he expressed in that video, England is House Negro Central we’ve got a full on infestation of them out here. These Negroes will happily and enthusiastically bury you alive to curry their masters favour. You see this in the schools and the Workplaces.
When I was a kid when a White boy or an Indian boy had beef with me they would deploy their House Negroes against me and they would fight me hard and it’s the same in the workplace. If a White person wants to get at you one of their favourite methods is to do it through their House Negroes who will gladly do it to advance in the company at your expense. The bonus with using a proxy House Negro to get at you is they can always claim not to be racist because they are “friends” with their tool “no it’s nothing to do with race it’s him”.
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@thordaddy:
“Sam,
Maybe you should have a few daughters and sons like me so some day you can teach that they may have sex with whomever they please and it will be consequence-free.
You’re in a fantasy land like most “abstract liberals.””
Well, I am a father and I do have children and yes, I have teached them about sex, safe sex particulary, and also told them what it is about, how babies come to this world, about the emotional aspects of sex, about VDs, and also how they don’t have to do it if they don’t want to, and if they do it, how to do it safely and what to expect etc.
I am very glad I did since none of them have had any teen pregnancies, diseases etc. and are now grown ups living their happy lives. I have no idea what kind of mumbo jumbo you teach to your children but judging from your comments here, your kids need professional help in that regard and pretty fast. Otherwise they might end up being as troubled as you.
For me life and world are not abstractions. I live the way I want. For you it might be an intellectual exercise but for me it is the Life. I bet I have seen this world way more than you, I bet I have been in places where you never will be, met people you would never ever dare to meet nor want to meet, from the big business people and polticians to the most down and out outcasts. I have eaten foods you would never dare to eat, slept in places you would never ever dare to go, and I have met some of the best people and some of the worst too.
I have a friend who is a murderer but I also have a friend who is a priest. I have a friend who is a nurse and I have a friend who is a professional soldier. I have a friend who is a police officer but I also have a friend who is a professional criminal. I have a friend who mingles with Bill Gates and his crowd but I also have a friend who lives out on a street. I have a friends of all colors and ethnic backrounds, from Kosovo to Togo, from Sweden to Vietnam. I have muslim friends, religious christian friends, atheist friends etc.
All these things and friendships make my life worth of living. All of them have shown to me that in order to live, really live, we must be Free. And namely, Free inside our heads.
For you Freedom is an abstraction because you are a prisoner. You can not understand it because you are affraid of it. You look at this world behind your own bars and think that you are outside, when in reality you are well locked up.
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Boy this site is filled with sista soulja’s pandering to insecure black men. LOL PATHETIC! Ya got anymore feel good quotes for tha brotha’s lol
@janet
Actually on the contrary, I was trying to point out the significance of Africa and the BW. I’m sorry if I wasn’t successfully in doing so but I am throughly convinced that the destruction and elimination of BW and the African continent are the end goal. The amount negative stigma, vitriol, propaganda aimed at the continent and BW is revolting to say the least. Although I agree people can marry who they chooose, It all comes down to external forces trying to destroy the BC. You don’t have to agree with me but as a Young BW from London I can only speak from personal experience and the forces at work that have tried and failed to split up my family.
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@V4:
“Mexicans are caucasians, Indians (from India) are caucasian, just being caucasian doesn’t make you white.”
You believe that? Some old geezer back in 1800’s came up with a racial fantasy of caucasian race and you still buy that?
Mexicans are mexicans. People of India are indians, well, actually they belong to several ethnic groups over there.
I think it was some other thread over here where the history of that ridicilous racial fantasy term was handled. It is used mainly in USA now a days and that tells a lot about the state USA is in.
In reality the caucasians are armenians, tsetshens, ossetians, georgians, azeris, abhasians and some others. You know, the people who live around the Caucasus region. Mexicans do not live over there. They live in Mexico and its surrounding areas.
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@herneith: 😀
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@ MaMu
Excellent comment! Thank you.
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Sam,
Lol…
So you had consequence-free sexual relations and you have grown kids?
Amazing… How is that done?
I also didn’t read the part where you taught them about your principle of having sexual relations with whomever you please because it was consequence-free?
Sam… Maybe because you are foreign to America, and thus, severely limited in your real knowledge about the American white/black dynamic that you don’t understand what I’m saying? Perhaps you can quote the “mumbo jumbo” that alludes you and I can clarify? Funny how not a single person has done this?
You basically have three options:
1. The black collective’s dysfunction is caused by “white supremacy.”
2. The black collective’s dysfunction is caused by radical sexual autonomy which is caused by “white supremacy.”
3. The black collective’s dysfunction is caused by a radical sexual autonomy embraced by both black man and black woman.
Of course, I choose the third option because it gives the black collective FULL AUTONOMY and IT IS THE REAL ROOT CAUSE OF THE BM/BW DYSFUNCTION.
But the black collective chooses options one and/or two, so it’s a war of liberation with those who want to be slaves and have all other ls slave with them.
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^^^ “have all [others] slave with them.”
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@ Blanc2
I think it is mostly because, in general, black men and white men in America look at female body shape differently.
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Peanut,
does any one notice how they never show black people making love in the media? I don’t mean angry, degrading sex, I mean genuine love making, they don’t show that…but have no issues showing white people doing that. I think that speaks to the overall discomfort that the white media has with Black sexuality. It’s only acceptable for Black men and Black women to be sexual when its either in a degrading way or when it benefits whites.
Yes! I’ve noticed that. Black people are never shown making love, unless it’s in a black produced movie (and even that is not a guarantee). Blacks are shown being sexual in a “dirty” way (not that I think sexuality is dirty, but you know what I mean), but never in a committed, let’s make love kind of way.
And now a completely different thing when it comes to sexuality in movies…
As for interracial couples – and I bet this is what black men and white women protest about – you get to see some love making, UNLESS it’s black man and a white woman. This IR pairing is very common, yet it’s rarely shown. It’s because studio executives believe white male audience is ok with seeing white men with all races of women (white, black, Asian), but they don’t want to see a white woman with a non-white man (especially black).
Abagond,
I think it is mostly because, in general, black men and white men in America look at female body shape differently.
Huh? So, you think “blacks like fat (white) women” stereotype is true?
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@ thordaddy
I think that most black men are against white supremacy, but their being with white women probably comes more from being brainwashed by said supremacy, if anything, than because they oppose it.
Most men, when seeking to get laid or even married, are not concerned with making a political statement. That is not how it goes. After you pass puberty you will discover that for yourself.
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Sam,
I stand corrected. You didn’t state that you had consequence-free sexual relations, rather, you stated that you had had no bad consequences from your sexual relations.
Which is to say that you DIDN’T LIVE BY THE PRINCIPLE of “I may have sex with whomever I please.” On the contrary, thirty years of sexual relations with no bad consequences means you must have been quite careful and conservative.
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Abagond,
So in your world, grown black men who have passed puberty have sexual relations with white women because they have been “brainwashed” by “white supremacy” with “supremacy” obviously equally degeneracy in your “abstract liberal” world?
I mean, this is a degenerate thing they are doing, no? A grown black man, passed puberty, seeking sexual relations with a white woman is doing a degenerate thing? Right?
This is what you are saying?
So how can you also say that Abagond can have sexual relations with whomever he pleases?
Abagond is cool with degenerate relationships?
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Abagond,
I think that most black men are against white supremacy, but their being with white women probably comes more from being brainwashed by said supremacy, if anything, than because they oppose it.
Most men, when seeking to get laid or even married, are not concerned with making a political statement. That is not how it goes. After you pass puberty you will discover that for yourself.
The thing is, ideology and collective level are not the same as personal level and they should never be confused. Just like having black friends or black spouse and children don’t automatically make a white person non-racist, having a white partner or a spouse doesn’t make a black person a race traitor.
It’s very harmful to assume these things. It is true some people who date outside their race are full of issues, such a being brainwashed, or racist, or whatever, but it is possible to have your own beliefs and moral code and attitude and still choose a partner from whatever group you like.
It’s harmful, in my opinion, to mix higher level (beliefs and ideology) with personal level (who you marry). At the end of the day, who you procreate with and who you fall in love should be about your personal happiness and not your group’s beliefs.
This is something I firmly believe in.
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@ Thordaddy & Mira:
I never said that black men go with white women ALWAYS or ONLY because they are brainwashed.
In the comment just now I said:
Notice the “more … than” and “if anything”. I am not saying ALL such matches are cases of brainwashing – thus “if anything” – but that it is more likely brainwashing than some kind of racial revenge – thus the “more … than”.
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And where did I write that you believe ALL black men do it? Heck, where did I even mentioned it? I said some men are brainwashed to believe stereotypes – so if they end up with a white bi.ch or a gold digger, well, it’s their fault they assumed “white women aren’t after money/are easier to get along with”. Whoever believes stereotypes instead of their own eyes and brain deserves whatever happens to them.
But the idea of brainwashed black men is something you brought up, not me.
In my last comment, I wasn’t even talking about black men exclusively. This is the general attitude I have towards out-group relationship: loyalty to your group has nothing to do with who you sleep with or who you decide to procreate with. In my opinion, these things should never be confused for each other.
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Mira,
Yur wrong,
yur looking short
black man needs to look long
and hard
at why he don’t get along
with his black woman
and why he sings that song
like Abagond
says I’m here, my black queen
now I’m gone,
got me a white one
we getting it on
I can have sex with whomever I please
it’s about my happiness
it’s about me
fugg the legacy
fugg the baby seats
this my liberation
this my fantasy
white bitch throw me out
blame sheeet on “white supremacy”
come back home
baby momma seeking her independency
she wanna be happy
gotta get away from this fake-ass G
con man with a capital C
it about me
I wanna be happy
start me a legacy
with white Supremacy
the capitalized sheeeet
not that lower case degeneracy
favorite boogeyman
of the black man still in infancy…
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As for brainwashing, if you want to go there: I think racism is what made a natural, normal thing sick. We should ask ourselves why (heterosexual) men find women attractive. There’s nothing wrong about. It’s racism that makes it so complicated and it’s racism that implies something is “unnatural” to find a woman of another race attractive. It’s racism that implies that women of certain races are more attractive than women of other races, as if all members of one race are the same.
But I still do think men are men and women are women and they are attracted to each other. No huge mystery here. So black men/white women thing isn’t about “why black men find white women attractive”. Duh. They are heterosexual men, that’s why. No huge philosophy here. The main problem is why they (and men of other races) think* some other women (namely, black ones) aren’t as attractive.
* Not all of them obviously.
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I worded this sloppily, so let me try again:
The issue isn’t why black (or any other race) men find white women attractive. Men finding women attractive shouldn’t be surprising. The issue is why they – some of them – don’t find women of other races (especially black) equally attractive.
That’s the true issue here.
And since I don’t believe that intra-racial relationships should be default, this is a question for men of all races and not just blacks.
However, since black men are raised by black women and surrounded by black women and loved by black women as they grow up, the lack of admiration/attraction towards black women some of them show is even more confusing than the lack of admiration men of other races show towards black women (which doesn’t excuse non-black men; like I said many times before, I don’t think intra-racial relationships are any more natural and “default” than the interracial ones).
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Abagond,
One of the fundamental tactics used by the radical autonomist to be radically autonomous is to feign obliviousness to one’s radical autonomy.
Like Mira, no one hear suggested that a) black men are brainwashed nor did we b) think you were speaking of ALL black men who sought sexual relations with white women.
In fact, your formulation allows black man to get with white woman and blame it on white man so as to deflate the ire of the black woman.
This little pattern of liberation has come to the law of diminishing returns.
My formulation has an imperial-minded black man front and center. His ever ounce of autonomy is guarded like gold. He hunts. He hibernates. He indulges. He gets “high.” He broils. He’s paranoid. He has 500 years of black liberation to uphold. He has agency. He’s at war. He doesn’t let his daughters go white. He guards their gift like it was God-given. He wants separation. He wants black Supremacy.
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^^^… no one [here]…
^^^… His [every] ounce…
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@ Thordaddy & Mira
It is early morning here, perhaps I misread…
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thordaddy,
Actually, I do agree with Abagond that racism plays a huge role in this: racism is what can make people form their admiration or a dislike towards people of certain races, and racism does shape people’s sexual preferences.
That wasn’t what I questioned. I questioned the belief that intra-racial relationships are somehow “normal” or “natural” (more than IR are), so that being with a person of another race is somehow morally problematic on its own. And I also questioned the belief someone can’t love “their” people (whoever they define “their” people) and still marry/procreate with a person who belongs to another group.
I honestly don’t get why Abagond singled me out for the “I never said all black men are brainwashed” comment. Maybe he’ll be happy to explain.
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Abagond,
It is early morning here, perhaps I misread…
Yup, that’s what happened, at least with my comment. Look, I know you’re annoyed with people adding “ALL” when it’s clearly implied (or said) “some”, but please don’t assume things.
You may disagree with what I say but please, you know – disagree with what I actually said.
On the other hand, no biggie.
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Too often the very same people who are eager to explain IR relationships that they don’t like as growing out of self-hate or media overexposure turn right around and praise those IR relationships that they do like (ie. those that feature their particular race/gender combination) as being somehow necessary or growing out of more valid emotions.
This is incredibly hypocritical of course but all too human.
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The real reason why black men will date white women is BC white women will do sexual stuff that black women usually won’t do. Like for example, white women will tend to have anal sex, salad tossing, as well as letting him have other women more so than black women. With a white woman, a black man will feel like that he will be sexual loved more when the truth is those practices are not healthy. They are cause anal cancer, oral cancer and even hepatitis!! We meed to have sex and practice the way the most high intended us too!!
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Stefan,
Funny thing, that is exactly what white people say about black women. A coincidence? Not at all!
It all goes with: “Easier to get into bed – always a virtue with out-group women, never a virtue with in-group ones.”
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@thordaddy:
“Sam,
I stand corrected. You didn’t state that you had consequence-free sexual relations, rather, you stated that you had had no bad consequences from your sexual relations.
Which is to say that you DIDN’T LIVE BY THE PRINCIPLE of “I may have sex with whomever I please.” On the contrary, thirty years of sexual relations with no bad consequences means you must have been quite careful and conservative.”
Well, I have had sex with anyone whom I have wanted if they have felt the same way. Which means I have had sex with anybody I have wanted, basically. I did choose to have sex only with my wife for many many years and I chose to take care of my children willingly. We did not plan them, but welcomed them and took care of them. By the way, our divorce went well and we are still very good friends.
Before my marriage and after it, yes I am divorced, I had and have had sex with multiple partners, BUT I still haven’t had unwanted results or consquenses. Yes, I tribute that to the fact that I have always been very responsible towards my partners, very much aware of the safety aspects and most of all, I have been totally honest with all of them. Safe sex helps to avoid VDs and it is only natural these days and being honest and concern towards ones partner means there will be no bad feelings or mistakes, misunderstandings or such.
If that is conservative, then I am. It is definetly careful. It is not enough that we take care of our selves, we must also be responsible of our partners. whom ever they might be.
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I am NOT dissing interracial relationships I am just saying that you can date out of that race as long as you don’t COMPLETELY abandon your race of women he way Black men do when they date out. And yes, it is nice seeing Black women in interracial relationships because it tells me that they have moved on from Black men.
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Adeen,
Whoever refuses to ever, ever date people of a certain race get a serious side eye from me. It’s one to date interracially because the person you fell in love with happens to be of another race. But to refuse to ever consider a person of a certain race as a partner, or to claim there are no attractive people of that race is insane.
Also, I remember reading some numbers which show that white women are actually the group least likely to date interracially.
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@Peanut
“does any one notice how they never show black people making love in the media? I don’t mean angry, degrading sex, I mean genuine love making, they don’t show that…but have no issues showing white people doing that. I think that speaks to the overall discomfort that the white media has with Black sexuality. It’s only acceptable for Black men and Black women to be sexual when its either in a degrading way or when it benefits whites.”
This can also be caused by the fact that white people do not feel connected to other races. They need white characters, because they can easily relate to them.
https://webapps.utsc.utoronto.ca/ose/story.php?id=2135
http://www.livescience.com/14879-faces-races-alike.html
this can be a factor too:
http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/07/study_finds_white_people_dont_watch_black_movies.html
@Mira
“One of the main issues in any IR dating discussion is the belief some people have that men and women of the same race somehow “belong” to each other; that they are “natural” partners to each other. Intra-racial pairings are product of certain historical circumstances (well, race is a product of historical circumstances), but there are no “our” vs “your” women/men.”
Isn’t this “our vs your” thing about cultural groups, not just racial? Nationality can make us consider some people as “our”, so can ethnicity, language (and slang), education, common history, belonging to the same social group, subculture, etc. When we see “our” kind we assume that they share at least some of our experiences.
This isn’t just about race. We see people as “our” because we can notice similarities between them and us. It’s not irrational to assume that, since we come from similar backgrounds, we can have a lot in common.
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sometimes slept with white women to “get back at slavery,” and he said he hoped her grandparents were rolling over in their grave
black men just have too many issues! that is why i dont deal with them. bring me a white, mexican or indian man! they love me and i dont have to deal with the drama!!!
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eco,
Yes, that applies to all in-grouping. It doesn’t matter which parameter you use to define who’s “us” and who’s “them” (race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc.)
I still don’t see a partner who shares my race, ethnicity, nationality or religion to be automatically “more for me” than somebody who doesn’t share these things with me. These men aren’t my “default” partners, and I sure don’t want to be seen as a default partner for them.
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@Mira
When you are analyzing the personality of a potential partner, aren’t you looking for certain characteristics? Moral values, hobbies, education, intelligence, job, temperament, etc. similar to your own? If you are looking for similarities, aren’t they defining what “your” kind of person is?
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Yes. But people of all races/ethnicities/religions can share my hobbies, interests, education, moral values, temperament, etc.
That is “my” personal kind of a person. I support this way of thinking, because you see who is “yours” based on your individual personality and interests. What I don’t like when “your person” is defined not based on personality but some collective traits, such as ethnicity, race or religion. I might not share any personality traits with such a man and we might not be compatible at all.
Additionally, finding someone truly compatible, somebody you can be with and feel like everything is just the way it should be, it’s very difficult, so limiting yourself only for people of your own race (ethnicity, religion, nationality) doesn’t make much sense to me.
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@ Mira
I think that, in general, factors like hobbies and education on their own are as vague (they don’t say much about a person) as religion or language. Combinations of characteristics form something specific.
Ok, I think I understand your point of view. Things like religion, ethnicity and language do seem important to me. They may not necessarily be “deal breakers”, things that would make me lose interest in a person, but they can cause a lot of problems.
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Hey, I understand. I was talking about myself. I know myself and I know what suits me. Obviously, not all people think the same, which is kind of a good thing. But interests and hobbies aren’t the most important; the most important is the way he approaches the relationship and what kind of a person he is. If he’s not loyal and devoted, he’s out.
Maybe it’s just me; maybe it’s easier for others to find many compatible people so they can choose based on religion, race, etc. But many of us aren’t that fortunate. Finding a compatible person is hard enough, so I never wanted to limit myself with partners from my group only.
Still, I do believe there’s no such a thing as “default” partners in natural sense of the word.
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Years ago, in one of my first jobs, my co-worker, black, was married to a white woman, we were all the same age, hung out together and what really shocked me was that his wife would go home at Christmas without him, so that her grandparents wouldn’t know that she was married to a bm. Havent seen them in years so I don’;t know if they are still married.
Another IR couple that I know, a bw and wm, also surprise me at times, because he is so predjudiced about everybody except his own children. I also see this strange behavior in transracial adoption families, where the white parents adopt a child from another race, but haven’t dealt with their own personal racism ,and can even reject adults from the same race/community of their transracially adopted child.
I also thought it was weird that Tiger Woods picked the same type of white woman over and over again, no variety, which I always thought men liked variety and checking out different things on the menu.
This type behavior does make it questionable when a bm would consistently choose ww in their relationships, it does seem racist and self- hating, the ww being a prize I forgot, I have neighbors who are IR, and the ww is totally clueless about racism, insists that it never happens to her husband or children.
I don’t know if it has ever been addressed here ,but it also seems to me that ww are insecure and jealous of woc, and I am going to quess that a lot of ww feel threatened by the beauty of bw, which makes the whole meme about bw being ugly even more confusing and ridiculous to me.
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@Mira
“Still, I do believe there’s no such a thing as “default” partners in natural sense of the word.”
Isn’t it a little like beauty? Beauty isn’t objective, measurable, so in this sense there is no good reason to call anything beautiful, but beauty is a real thing because a lot of people consider certain things to be beautiful. Their subjective opinions cumulated create something real, something that affects the lives of other people.
Likewise, some people are seen as our default partners not because it objectively makes sense, but because a lot of people think along similar lines and pay attention to certain characteristics.
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right about that, Satanforce, I forget the name he used to self-identify.
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Adeen Danica Mckenzie said:
“I am NOT dissing interracial relationships I am just saying that you can date out of that race as long as you don’t COMPLETELY abandon your race of women he way Black men do when they date out. And yes, it is nice seeing Black women in interracial relationships because it tells me that they have moved on from Black men.”
Yet no mention of how the BWE abandons black men to get with their “rainbeau” man.
I see the pattern.
Black women dating IR = Moving on, Breakin’ free from the oppressive black man.
Black men dating IR = Abandoning and disrespecting black women.
What a load of feminist baloney
ciara said:
“black men just have too many issues! that is why i dont deal with them. bring me a white, mexican or indian man! they love me and i dont have to deal with the drama!!!”
And black women and non black men don’t have any issues. Get real and grow up!
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abagond
@ Blanc2
“Agabond, I’d be interested to know if you have any insights with respect to the phenomenon one often sees, especially around my home town, of black men with obese white women. Is it as simple as a cultural preference for thick women, or is it more about what Chris Rock suggests in his stand-up, that these women are considered the “dregs” by white culture, thereby creating a dynamic of black men accepting the “scraps” left by white men? Or perhaps an admixture of these concepts?”
@ I think it is mostly because, in general, black men and white men in America look at female body shape differently.
Really? I guess I am dubious because one of the things most oft quoted about undesirable BW is the fact that they are big, too big in fact at times and where clothes that are innappropriate for their size, i.e. tight /ill fitting clothes etc and that BW generally dont take care of themselves, in other aspects of their appearance.
Honestly? I think there is a case of ‘double standards’ amongst some BM – of course, I refer to the one’s who exclusively date WW. Whilst they set the bar extremely high in terms of their preferences for BW, I have found that in their WW they are seemingly content to ‘settle’
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Does anyone know of any good (representative) BWE websites or books?
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I think this blog is well known, http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/
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I have read some of the comments, it’s pretty painful to get through all of this. However I would like to just make a fairness statement pertaining to some of the “white woman still has racist tendency” comments.
If the stereotype that the black guy goes for these girls because it’s easier to control the relationship is true. then wouldn’t be easier for the black guy to hold on to his racist tendencies and even hatred as well? think about it.
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That is an anomaly. It is perhaps, the only positive representation of BWE kn the Internet.
This website is considered the original, and most definitive statement of the BWE doctrine. The blog’s contents have also been turned into a book.
http://sojournerspassport.com/
And here are some more.
http://interracialloveandspicebysara.blogspot.com/
http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/
http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/
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I also would be curious to do a poll on here to see how many of the most outspoken on here have white girlfriends or wives. That would really be something if not almost comical.
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@vindicator
Them b!tches make me lol
@ vanishing point
The gentleman considers himself a “Cablinasian.”
@ all
A useful glossary for understanding the heifers of the BWE.
Damaged Beyond Repair (DBR) Refers to all (and only) black men. The idea is the for whatever reason, black men who are not these women’s kin are troubled misogynists, who are verbally abusive at best and potential rapists at worst. This is of course, backed up using confirmation bias ad highly circumstantial statistics.
From Evia
Rainbeau A handsome non-black man who is interested in an interracial relationship with a black woman, A portmanteau of Rainbow and beau.
Mammy/Sista Souljah As one of the fundamental doctrines of the BWE is that black woman handicap and martyr themselves at the altar of the black community and black men, they therefore castigate black women for this “fact ” by condemning black women who have anything good to say about black men, or participate in civil rights as “mammies” and Sista Souljahs
Guardian of all things Dark and Lovely A person or organisation (eg. Abagond) that refutes the stereotypes about blacks through empirical, statistical or rational argument, while it the same timetaking pride in blackness. The phrase is of course, used sarcastically
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also @leigh I hate to pick on you, but seriously, you don’t think Kim Kardashian is good looking at all? I’m sorry, but you are most likely lying and hating.
It’s like when I read comments about how people say she’s mean like a Britney Spears type. Honestly I don’t see that, I think she is a nice lady who made some mistakes like we all have and the jealous hate from people compound that. They are a nice family. I was voting for Rob , her brother, to win the Dancing with the stars show.
You were only willing to accept anything from her if it was seen by abagond that she wasn’t seen as “white” will you stop it already.
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thanks for the bw/wm sites!! didnt know about them!!
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look at him calling bw heifers. but bm date outside their race more than bw do and he aint got NOTHING to say about them.
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Interesting discussion, I agree with what you wrote above Abagond. I’d like to add the this phenomonom as to why some BM marry or only date WW: they didn’t get the love and attention from their own AA mothers and found more comfort and love from their teachers-predominantly white (internalized racism/brainwashing) that made them seek out WM.
Here’s an interesting link–> http://s1.zetaboards.com/Express_Yourself/topic/4639267/1/
Don’t believe the hype
ps. I married a fine BM, they do exist and he’s got an Abagond mentality too! 😀 coming up on 10yrs this Aug!
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@dave
also @leigh I hate to pick on you, but seriously, you don’t think Kim Kardashian is good looking at all? I’m sorry, but you are most likely lying and hating.
&
You were only willing to accept anything from her if it was seen by abagond that she wasn’t seen as “white” will you stop it already.
Hang on a minute here dave, clearly I cant speak for Leigh, and she is more than capable of doing this herself 🙂 but, your comment smacks to me of what a lot of abagonds posts have referred to – brainwashing. Society says that Kim K is good looking so, we ALL must agree that she is good looking? Come on, you know that Leigh isnt necessarily a hater just because she doesnt agree with abagond (as I think I recall somewhere he had a pash for Kim K 😉 ) and what seems to be the general concensus for a lot of men. Besides, from what some other commenters have said, her ‘looks’ enhanced by surgery but I dont follow her or their show so I really couldnt say.
You know that looks are subjective, otherwise some of the topics that feature on this blog that discuss the perceptions of certain womens looks wouldnt be so potentially contentious.
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LOL @Randy
Ha, the “token Black.” So it IS true, the need to stand out, to be “special.” How sad. SMH.
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I’m disturbed by the inclusion of IQ scores. If you don’t believe race is a determining factor of intelligence, why would you include them? And if you believe race IS a determining factor in intelligence, how do you reconcile that will your fight against white supremacist racism?
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Here is an article that is counter-factual to what I and NaMu posted.
Interracial Dating Angers Many Black Women at Brown U.
After a bit of searching, I managed to find an article I read a few years ago which opened my eyes to a perspective on inter-racial dating held by some Black women. Essentially, in the mid-nineties, a group of Black women at Brown University were so hurt and frustrated by what they perceived as the eagerness of Black men to date white women that they created a “Wall of Shame.” On this wall, they put photos of Black men who they felt were “guilty” of shunning Black women for white women, and perpetuating notions of white superiority in beauty.
It had an impact on me when I read it, because their feelings were so close to the feelings of some Asian-American males. If you replace “Black men” with “Asian women,” “Black women” with “Asian men,” and “white women” with “white men” in this article, you’ll get something that is pretty much 100% applicable in tone and feeling to the Asian-American situation and discourse.
This article brings up so many points of discussion, I can’t believe I didn’t search it out sooner. I’ll have more comments to make on it, and on this topic in general, since I feel the air is so thick with ego and pain and distortion, but I wanted to put up the article immediately so that people could understand a similar situation and set of emotions from a perspective where the race is different and the genders are reversed, which might serve as a basis for future reasoned and compassionate discussion.
From a Google cache of an article by the Chronicle of Higher Education
Interracial Dating Angers Many Black Women at Brown U.
By Ben Gose
From the issue dated May 10, 1996
Lauren Handelsman, a white sophomore at Brown University, didn’t expect many problems when she began dating a black student in the fall of 1994.
“We’re at Brown,” she remembers telling Thabiti Brown, her boyfriend, who is also a sophomore, as their friendship grew serious. “People are really open-minded here. People are nice here.”
“Well,” she says now, “I guess not.”
She had expected a few racist asides when they walked off-campus in Providence holding hands, or maybe some awkward small talk at mostly white parties.
Instead, the most flak has come from black women who think that black men who date non-black women are abandoning their race, Ms. Handelsman says. Many of them glare when she and Mr. Brown walk around the campus, she says. Friends tell her that some black women criticize her behind her back.
Last October, in an incident that still has students talking, seven black women got personal in their crusade against black-white romance.
The women, who had gathered in the dormitory room of Felicia Carmen Lyde, a sophomore, scrawled “Wall of Shame” on a wall with an erasable blue marker. They then wrote the names of famous black men who either date or have married white women, according to Ms. Lyde.
Then, on the door of Ms. Lyde’s room, the women made a second list, with about a dozen names of black men on the campus who, they said, date white women — including Thabiti Brown and, simply, “the basketball team.”
Ms. Lyde lives on the busy first floor of Harambee House, a dormitory for students who are interested in African-American culture. News of the “Wall of Shame” circulated quickly, setting off fierce arguments within the black community at Brown. Men on the list were hurt, as were children of mixed-race marriages. Most Brown students, however, did not learn about it until Michael Maimon, a white columnist at The Brown Daily Herald, the student newspaper, wrote about it in January.
The black women who created the list say it was the result of frustration that has been building for a long time. Black men at Brown have simply rejected them, they say.
“People come up to me and say, ‘Why did you do it? Didn’t you know it would hurt people’s feelings?’” says Ms. Lyde.
“Didn’t they know that my feelings have been hurt all along?”
On one level, the controversy involving interracial dating at Brown is simply the most intimate version of a broader campus debate involving race and ethnicity. At many colleges, the need for racial solidarity runs up against the ideal of race-blindness in such issues as housing and special orientation programs for minority students.
But the dating issue is also a question of demographics. At Brown, black women outnumber black men 211 to 154. The discrepancy is even wider nationally. About 900,000 black women were enrolled in undergraduate and graduate programs at colleges and universities in 1994, compared with 550,000 black men, according to the U.S. Department of Education.
It makes things worse, says Leslie Abrams, a black junior at Brown, when “the black men who are here don’t want to have anything to do with you.” She says she was not involved in the “Wall of Shame” but sympathizes with those who created it.
Some black women at Brown believe that half of the black men there date white women at least occasionally.
But Ralph Johnson, a sophomore who made Ms. Lyde’s list, says he can count the number of black men in relationships with white women on two hands.
Mr. Johnson, who says he usually dated black women in high school, says he fell for Rachel Davidson, who is white, shortly after a friend introduced them in a campus cafeteria. They have dated for more than a year now.
contd. on http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2007/08/10/browns-wall-of-shame-in-inter-racial-dating/
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ciara said:
“look at him calling bw heifers.”
Actually Satanforce was calling the BWE, heifers. I can think of far more worse things to say about them. I’ll just stick with “deluded race based misandrist feminist cult”!
ciara said:
“bm date outside their race more than bw do and he aint got NOTHING to say about them.”
I have. You mad right *insert trollface*
Even with black men at the bottom of the totem pole of the USA. They still tun rings aroun black women when it comes to IRR.
I feel a little sorry for BAW but the BWE can as the east end London saying goes – Do One.
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Abagond:
Do blackmen who date/marry outside of their race realize that they’re being used by whitemen to destroy themselves and their race? Any human being with common sense can see that blackmen are committing racial suicide. None of this insanity came about by chance, it’s by design. Whitemen are clever, very clever indeed. Bombarding black males with images of whitewomen via commercials, sitcoms, dramas, talk-shows, sports, etc. Pushing black males into sports and hip-hop, which is an easy way to draw-in white females because whites are obsessed with black culture anyway. In essence, whitemen have no shame in pimping their own women to destroy blackmen, No Shame! Blackmen think they’re doing it big so to speak, Wrong! The joke is on us as blackmen. As far as whitewomen supposedly being the most attractive, that’s bulls**t too. How many real whitewomen do we see in white media? Blonde, blue-eyed, pale skin, thin. I’ve seen my fair share of real whitewomen, and they’re not as fine as they think they are, Real Talk! Again, white folks are very clever. They’ve replaced whitewomen in media with a bunch of mixed whitewomen who owe their beauty to blackwomen. So, how can they say that they’re superior to blackwomen, when blackwomen made them what they are? I stress this point a lot because a lot of us don’t pay attention to what we see in white media. Blackwomen should never waste time arguing with whitewomen over beauty, Never! Just mention the names of the “Group of Four.” The Spanish, Portugese, Arabs, and British, Check Mate! Also, let’s shine a light on Dr. King’s “I Have A Dream Speech.” Uncle Tom blackmen have been around since slavery, nothing new. The speech gave them a convenient excuse to be what they’ve always been, self-hating blackmen. They can call it whatever they want to, not loving the women of your race is self-hatred…Bottomline! Another group that i have beef with, the biracial class. Why we didn’t chuck the one drop rule after slavery, is beyond me. In my opinion, they’ve contributed to this problem more than anybody. Blackmen have used the false premise of biracial=black as a scapegoat. Let’s be real about this. Half-black is not black. Half-black has no loyalty to our race. Half-black is not black enuf. I know it, they know it, and their black fathers know it as well. I don’t care about the rule anymore, it’s dead to me…DEAD! As i’ve said before on this blog, whitemen and others don’t need weapons to destroy blackmen, sex will and can do a better job than any handgun, rifle, bomb, tank, etc. Think about it black people? ABORTION, HIV/AIDS, HOMOSEXUALITY, AND RACE-MIXING. Who knew that sex could be so deadly after all? Again, we need to stay on course, and deal with the real problem. Which is dilution and destruction of blackness. I don’t want us to become like our spanish sistas and brothas, and end up with egg on our face…puerto-ricans and dominicans i’m talking about you, yes i am. Running around trying to be black after the fact. When they were black, didn’t want it. When black no more, all of a sudden they wanna be black…Wonderful! As to blackwomen, why do they keep supporting blackmen who don’t give a damn’ about them and their race? I want sistas to prove to me how upset they really are by boycotting blackmen such as Reggie Bush, Lamar Odom, Terrence Howard, Taye Diggs, and all of the other imposters. Throw Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain in with them as well, because, they’re held to a higher standard. Athletes, rappers, and actors are entertainment for white folk anyway…Real Talk! Abagond, i’m gonna make life miserable for the blackmen in question, Mark My Word!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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I thought I should get in on the action since this post may be on for debate for sometime.
I can relate to comments from Peanut, who is clearly hurt and disappointed by some people’s lack of response to negative comments and issues towards black women.
MaMu1977, bulanik and some others made some good points as well, all which the post addressed; self hatred, availability (who is more available and who wants you) and men (women too) just wanting to have sexual/marital relations with whomever they can get it from.
Btw, the YouTube video about perfect male-black man/perfect female-white woman, the guy with the creepy voice was very disturbing.
He did say that world wide lighter skin complexion is considered more beautiful than a darker skin complexion. From where I sit it seems to be true, I am right or wrong for thinking that way?
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Yes, lighter skin complexion was/is seen as more attractive for a woman in most (all?) of the cultures. It was true even before slavery and colonization. Today is part of racism and back in the days was part of classism.
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@ Mira
Also, I remember reading some numbers which show that white women are actually the group least likely to date interracially.
Really? I see White girls at my school with all sorts of guys! Whether they be Black, White, Latino, Asian etc. I really don’t know about that. And plus White women are the ”epitome of beauty”. I am NOT trying to doubt you just saying.
As for Vindicator, I wasn’t trying to be feminist or sexist. I have trying to say that I don’t think Black men love Black women anymore. It will make our slave ancestors roll in our graves if they see the IRR that is happening right now. And by the way, I am actually descended from Jamaicans
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Adeen Danica Mckenzie,
That is because there are more white women so the actual number of them in IR relationship is larger than the other women. But the percentage of white women who do it is quite low. I don’t remember the numbers, but the percentage of white women in IR relationships is the lowest.
Once again, this is something I remember reading… Somewhere. There’s no way I can find the link or back up this claim with a source. So please don’t take my word on it.
But I do think that with all the talk about IR dating and who wants to date IR and who is reluctant, I do think white women are often overlooked – and they aren’t really as open to dating inter racially as one might think.
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@Satanforce:
It appears you are conversant with these ‘heifers’. They sound ‘damaged’ themselves.
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“That is because there are more white women so the actual number of them in IR relationship is larger than the other women. But the percentage of white women who do it is quite low. I don’t remember the numbers, but the percentage of white women in IR relationships is the lowest.”
I read or saw a recent poll somewhere (i think it was the on the view) that 75 percent of all white women was not attracted to black men. So yeah they date interracially a lot less than women of other races . I think asian women got white women beat by a long shot when it comes to interracial dating.
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“But the percentage of white women who do it is quite low. I don’t remember the numbers, but the percentage of white women in IR relationships is the lowest.”
(American)White women are the least likely of any female cohort to marry interracially.
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^^^ very enlightening data.
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“Black men and White women” is a bottomless discussion, been going on since black women saw a lack of interest from men of other races compared to the romantic options of black men. I doubt that if there interracial options were the same for black women we’d be so eager to count these unions as invalid or attach conditions for what black men can do or say when they are with women who aren’t black, or black enough. I’m just being honest here. Black men shouldn’t be made to feel guilty or uninformed about their what they do with their penises unless we’re willing to do a breakdown about why black men deal with black women when the success rate is just as marginal as the former. I have my preferences and their not up for debate. I’m secure enough to extend that same courtesy to the opposite sex.
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@dave:
Hate to pick on me? I’m sure you’re wrenching your heart about it. Btw, where have I said I don’t think KK is good looking at all? Are you pulling stuff out of your behind again? I never lied, but as for hating, you’re right about that. I don’t care for KK because she’s a no talent, attention seeking famewhore. Did I forget anything else? I can’t wait until her 15 minutes are up and fades into obscurity the same way as her friend,or shall I say, former friend, Paris Hilton. Paris Hilton who? It’s only a matter of time. lol!
Again, stop pulling stuff out of your derriere. You’re making this stuff up.
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@Demerera:
Thanks girl. Some people are sooo presumptuous, huh? 😉
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$0.02 said:
“Standing out” appears to be a commonly successful mating strategy for men in general. For example, pubs in Scotland are filled with drinky Scots and nobody makes a fuss, but toss a single Scot into a bar in the American midwest, and just watch the ladies flock.
My impression was less that he felt the need to stand out, but rather surprise at how little effort it took to meet girls provided that the situation was just-so.
I think that a number of IR mating patterns fit this description. If any guy can attract a disproportionate amount of attention just by being at a particular type of person in a particular type of place, they’ll tend to do it.
The corollary to this principle is that when someone attracts a mate by being unique in this manner, the mate will often (at least at first) not hold them to the same expectations as those they don’t find so exotic.
I’d imagine this type of proposition is doubly compelling.
Perhaps this explains some measure of the stereotype of out-group girls supposedly being “easy that night and easy the next day.”
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@Tyrone
I think the greatest issue I take with your post is that you imply that the black man is “not” clever. Perhaps you didn’t see it that way.
Also, your ostracizing of the mixed races is nothing new. That is the never-ending battle of the hapa-child. They are doomed to never be accepted by anyone.
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Oh, thank you, Mira for clarifying this with me. Yes, I did look it up and White Americans in general are less likely to wed interracially than other races.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States
Among all newlyweds in 2008, 9% of whites, 16% of blacks, 26% of Hispanics and 31% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.
You are right.
And people can marry and date whoever thy want to marry and date as long as they don’t bash Black women. And 95% of Blakc men are married to Black women in America, can’t you believe it?
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And Waniapo, I’m sorry mixed people like you haven’t felt accepted by society. I thought it would be cool to be mixed raced. Anyways, I always wanted to ask Black men this and they never answered it: Why are A LOT of you guys so fascinated by White women(besides the media’s sterotypes about being the most beautiful women ever etc)? What about them makes ya’ll drool and run to them? is it their face? Skin? Eyes? ”Nice” hair?And this is for Abagond and other Black men who love and appreciate Sista’s.
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@Sam
Your thinking of only the first aspect of Caucasian the second is:
2
: of, constituting, or characteristic of a race of humankind native to Europe, North Africa, and southwest Asia and classified according to physical features —used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation
And if living there is the only definition you use; than it becomes equally useless to say Kim K is white because of that since she herself does not live there.
As I said; Caucasian includes in its definition at the very least people from India and they aren’t white by almost any one’s standard.
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I thought people from India were Asian, not Caucasian..
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You know, everytime I see KK’s face I look at a pretentious, overprivileged woman with no talent that the American media loves to death. There is nothing appealing about her, and there is nothing special about her. She’s just like Paris Hilton, and extremely overprivileged white woman that is the ambrosia for reality-based TV.
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I think the key issue here is simply The Racism. That makes people go nuts over with whom who ever is dating/marrying/sleeping with. Personally I don’t care as long as people do not hurt each other.
Motives of black men dating white men must be various. Motives of white women dating black men must be various. Motives of black women dating white men must be various.Motives of the white me dating black women must be various.
The reason why these interracial realtionships, one way or the other, bother so many so much is racism. Either people are “betraying their race” or have some other ulterior motives. Some might do just that, but I bet in many cases the real motives behind choosing ones partner are the same as in any relationship: interest, curiosity, attraction, sex, love etc.
The problems with interracial relationships remind me of the ones between different classes way back when, and in some societies still today. “You can not marry a girl from the lower class, you are betraying your class” etc. “Poor man dating rich girl is only after her money”, “Poor man is only looking to step up”, “Poor woman is just a gold digger”, “She is just after his money” etc.Sounds very similar to me.
And the so called “mixed”? Well, show me some one who biologically is not. We are all mixed genetically. Not one of us is “pure” in any sense biologically. The only reason why some have problems with so called “mixed” is racism. There is no other reason. Mixed people are reminding us all that we all are in reality like that.
And one interesting fact: demographics show that the human race, the one and only biological race, will get more and more mixed in the future. It is unvoidable. Future face of the mankind will look more like Brazil than any other. That is just the way things are going by numbers and biology of this human race. And good thing too. Perhaps that will stop the insanity of the racism and the fantasies of “Pure Race”.
As for Kim K, she is just too fake for my taste. Nice looking girl, but simply too plastic for me.
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Kim K – SHUDDER. She could be nice looking if she’d lay off the makeup. Every time Yahoo runs a story on her the comments run about 99% against. Both her and Paris H are sleezes.
As far as inter-racial marriage is concerned, one thing I learned early on is that you marry the family as well as the individual. You need to be sure that the both people are going to be comfortable with each others families or the marriage could be made miserable by them. This seems to occur primarily in my experience due to religion differences, but race is probably up there as well.
I think hot black women are as common as any other ethnic group including white, but I was never around enough of them when I was single to date any, as at that very few lived within 300 miles of the Northern Rockies area where I was. It has changed since then. Most of the mixed marriages then including a brother’s were with Native Americans. A Canadian black friend who married a blond has a daughter who was dark skinned AND blond when young. Stunning, and still is, though as she grew older her hair turned dark as many blond people’s do.
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@ Peanut, Satanforce, vanishing point, etc
Thank you all for the BWE info and links!
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@ Adeen
I like Mediterranean sort of women but never got why thin, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-skinned women are supposed to be so great looking.
More:
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Black men shouldn’t be made to feel guilty or uninformed about their what they do with their penises
And black American men should not try to make a black woman feel guilty about what she does with her vagina with their stupid comments when they tell me that I’m sleeping with my “enemy” when they see me out with a white man and enjoying myself.
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@ Mira & Demerera (and maybe Blanc2):
I am not going to get drawn into talking about fat black women. Not on this thread. It has caused me enough grief elsewhere (partly of my own making, I admit). Here it would just derail.
If you want to pursue it further or know my thoughts on it go here:
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I doubt that if there interracial options were the same for black women we’d be so eager to count these unions as invalid
But the interracial options for black women “are” just as good or even better. It’s just that black American women keep trying to stick with black American men and be loyal to them. Population-wise, it would take only a small fraction of white men in America to be interested in black American women for the women to have that option whenever they want. Some of the white guys I’ve dated tell me that black American women act like they don’t like white men.
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@ Tyrone
So long as the One Drop Rule is in effect, black is black. Mixed race people who self-identify as black, like Obama, Zoe Saldana or Alicia Keys, are black in my book:
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2. even a bi-racial woman (with a white mother) is still second best – she is simply ‘too’ black for those black men who are determined to achieve a white woman.
I don’t know whether you used the word “achieve” deliberately or not, but you are so right.
I’m sorry to say this but why do black American women chase and cry here after black men when the men obviously don’t want them. I know lots of attractive young black women who black men where I work now don’t even look at. Just about all the black men in my company do try to “achieve” a white woman.
Before someone starts with the tale about the 5000% of black men who are married to black women, I hope that black American women know that the masses of black American men are not married to anybody. A lot of those black men who are not married also date or live with women who are not black.
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Some black men date mainly white women because they have issues of self-hatred or internalized racism. And that is going to come out in the way they talk about black women. But that hardly means that most black men agree with them in all that they say. They are at one end of a range of opinions.
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@Jorbia
Then black women need to stop listening to what black men have to say on the matter, unless black women like the attention which I’m starting to believe. As far as the options for black women, I doubt it and loyalty has nothing to do to with it, its insecurity on the part of black women. That doesn’t mean black women have no options when it comes to men in other groups but they are not “better” than the options of black men.
Keep in mind that has more to do with the women in other groups being receptive based on American status and the earning power of the men as individuals, not because they are black. Black women see black men as black first so of course they have a different perspective. Black men and men of other groups see black women as black first and to be fair, they see other groups of women as race first/ethnicity first. I think we’ve ran out of excuses for why black women aren’t having the same exposure as black men to other groups.
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Some black men date mainly white women because they have issues of self-hatred or internalized racism. And that is going to come out in the way they talk about black women. But that hardly means that most black men agree with them in all that they say. They are at one end of a range of opinions.
It’s obvious that if the overwhelming masses of black American men loved black women or regarded them well, then there wouldn’t be so much lashing out and misery-tinged comments between black men and black women. Most of the women seem to want the men, but the men scarcely show that they return that feeling.
If there’s the silent majority as you’re indicating, of black men who don’t agree with these bashers of black women, then why don’t they speak out and stand up against the minority? Are they afraid? Or do they share many or most of the opinions of the bashers. This is why many black women believe that most black men do agree because anything else that black men don’t agree with, they speak out about it loudly. Why are they so silent about this one topic?
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@WarrenAz re-
Then black women need to stop listening to what black men have to say on the matter, unless black women like the attention which I’m starting to believe.
I fully agree with you, and I don’t, but you’re the one who said that black women should not be concerned with what black men do with their penises. Well, black men should ignore what black women do with their vaginas too. Black women and black men need to stop listening to each other.
As far as the options for black women, I doubt it
You’re entitled to your doubts. I’m around many young, well-educated, attractive black women who could date white men easily, but they hold back. I have seen this as a college and grad school woman and now as a professional woman.
and loyalty has nothing to do to with it,
They think they’re “supposed” to be with a black man.
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That doesn’t mean black women have no options when it comes to men in other groups but they are not “better” than the options of black men.
Black men have a lot of options for sex with other women, but a black woman could have sex with many, many more men of other groups because all a woman has to do is offer it and lie there.
If you’re talking about serious relationships, the only reason why more black American women don’t engage in them more with men of other groups is because black American women hold themselves back, thinking that they’re “supposed” to be with black men only. They don’t tend to socialize with men of other groups much. I see this. They just don’t. I see lots more African women socializing with white men in my large area where there are colleges and universities and they end up marrying those guys in some cases.
You say black American women don’t do this because of insecurity. That may be true, but that doesn’t mean the options are not there. They need to hear that over and over.
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@jorbia
Heifer alert! Heifer alert! (notice that it ignored the cohabitation data on Wikipedia)
,No heifer. Its because most black men (and black women), don’t spend all day watching Sgt. Willie Pete and BlackMenVent, and are thus not concerned about a bunch of awkward, socially maladjusted, insecure black woman-hating losers.
Sour grapes?
Ah. I see someone has read that Ralph Richard Banks book. Now we all know that one of the main problems with that book is that it takes the “dating arena as market” metaphor as it were a fact. But let’s ignore that for now.
The main problem with relying on the market metaphor (Rational Choice Theory) is that it assumes that people are rational, and always make rational decisions. They don’t. As Abagond has stated in previous posts, white men are still influenced by racist media, and black women still have an aesthetic preference for black men.
And then there are those who are affected by transactions made by those who are not buyers or sellers ie third parties. You speak of a surplus of white men to marry black women. Well, when you have 6 million more white women than white men, plus Asian women, and other “competing ” ethnicities, you get the feeling that someone is living in a very black and white world.
But let’s say that what you are saying is true. Let’s say that black men all stopped loving white women, then had a million man march to show their affection to black women. Then they got their acts together and started pursuing black women.
THEY STILL WOULDN’T WANT YOU!!!!
Goddamn self-hating clown, you never liked black men to begin with! So get the hell of a blog post about black men dating white women, you animal! Coming here with this ni&&as aint $hit crap, go masturbate to Spartacus and 300!!
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I don’t know what happened to my last post, but I’ll say it again: hate breeds hate. Every BBM who I’ve ever known has been treated badly by the black women in his life (in the same way that every BWE woman has her tale of woe.) Using their rage as a barometer of *all* black peoples’ mindsets is ignorant. Let them wallow in their misery and do what’s best for yourself.
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@ MaMu
It did not arrive at my end.
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@Satanforce
Name-calling is for losers. I can tell that my points hit the bullseye and hit you in a few other places.
You can deny what you want, but tons of black American women are living the experiences that reflect what I’m saying. They’re not interested in what you’re saying. They’ve heard it all before.
Black men do want me because I’m one of those very light-skinned black women. Or let’s just say, they want my skin.
For the record, I’ve gone out with men of all races.
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Bulanik said:
I’m glad you caught my drift! That was the point… 😎
For instance, out of all of the women that Herman Cain slept with, the only one that was made a big deal of was the ‘black’ one? I’d ASSumed that they were all ‘white’, but some of the media outlets were claiming that she was ‘black’ – must be the One Drop Rule farce.
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Then why are you and the rest of the heifers here?
Not buying it. Referring to yourself in the third person is a dead giveaway that you are not what you claim you to be. Also the idea that black men are obsessed with light skinned women is simply non-nonsensical.
You wanna know what black men like? Watch porn. From Ebony Ayes to Cherokee D’Ass, dark skinned women are the ones black men salivate over. In movies, From Angela Basset to Gabrielle Union. Video Vixens? Buffie the Body and Esther Baxter are still the standard that all must measure up to.
Not to mention, this.
That is a very unhealthy and unrealistic view of male/female relationships. If you honestly think that all a black women has to do is say to a man of another race is “Here, have some pu$$y!!”, I suggest you read the post on the Jezebel archetype. Most men are going to wonder what the hell is wrong with you?
It also shows the essential paradox of the BWE – how do you get men of other races to approach you? You can’t go up to them due to stereotypes about black women being aggressive, and male/female dynamics, and they, for the most part, are not that interested in black women.
Troll Mode Off
You are right. Name calling is for losers and trolls. But you have also ignored all the rational arguments put forth by myself and others. And that is the problem. Black women do not seem to want to hear what black men have to say. You all seem to listen only to dysfunctional black men. When black women have shows about issues pertaining to average black men, they do not invite these men to speak. In both America and Jamaica. they instead show out of touch academics, or celebrities that just want to sell books speaking on behalf of black men.
When black men date interracially, they are never asked why, in a cool calm manner. It is always presumed that they are self-hating, and hate black women so much that they would rather date fat, ugly white women instead.
Unless you are a civil rights leader, an academe or a comedian it is almost impossible to express your feelings as a black man without being shouted down. And we are not pleased about that. At all.
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Demerera said:
This is what I’ve mainly seen of BM/WW relationships here in the Pacific Northwestern U.S. Even worse is when children of those unions are forced by those same, bitter women to only have friends that they approve of. I can think of three girls I knew while growing up, whose angry mothers hated dark skin so much that they literally refused to let me enter their houses to play with their kids. They wanted their kids to be friends with the white and asian ones, and not me. Talk about a sick mind-set.
Ultimately, the only relationship I give a rat’s arse about is MY OWN – I think being happy with yourself and the one you’re with is what truly matters. If you’re a person who is overtly concerned with other people’s relationships, then you need to A) focus on your own issues with your own relationship, if you’re in one, or B) focus on your own issues within yourself so that you will be attractive to members of the opposite sex. Hating others is a major turn-off. So is being an arrogant, self-absorbed asshole.
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@satanforce–
Women are not heifers. Those are young cows.
I live my reality. I know how I look and I know what I am. You can think what you want of me but until Abagond asks me to leave, I’ll stay and comment.
Also the idea that black men are obsessed with light skinned women is simply non-nonsensical.
This statement proves that you’re in denial about this for some reason. Isn’t this black man’s preference for white and light women what’s being discussed in this thread?
When you mention those black women you cited, those women are super gorgeous or super curvy or whatever. Most black women are not super gorgeous. They look ordinary, just like most women in other groups have ordinary looks. All women in other groups are not super gorgeous either.
I don’t have to look at porn to find a black woman who I consider attractive.
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@satanforce–
When black men date interracially, they are never asked why, in a cool calm manner.
Some commenters in this thread were trying to get some answers about why.
I think that black men and black women should be with who they want. There’s a big, interesting world out there and I like mixing in it, so I can understand why others might want to mix in it too.
Another thing is that I see ordinary looking but attractive black women everywhere, not just in the media. If black men don’t find ordinary black women attractive, women should just forget about them. Black women crying their eyes out and begging is not going to make black men want them and it makes the women look pitiful.
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Let’s unpack this
Jump to 2:30. The gentleman made the standard brand crap comment about “black women’s attitudes”.
The host, knowing the stereotype of the Sapphire, parodies it. Mocks it into the ground. And then an absolutely stunning lady stands up – and takes on the very same stereotype that was just caricatured. A second “suit and tie ” gentleman repeats the same thing as his friend. He is then answered by another lady who says the following
1. Black men have inculcated the messages put out by white society, and unfairly apply these negative messages to black women.
2. Black women are not “a hassle” to approach or date.
3. Black women have been forced to be strong (and adopt masculine characteristics) due to black father figures being absent from their lives.
Interestingly, when the following black woman who dated interracially stood up and spoke, she was not met with the aggression and put-downs that faced the previous two gentlemen. Nor was the same level aggression shown to the panel member who called white men “white boys.”
But at the end of the clip, you have two black men who were (probably yet again) shouted down by black women, and humiliated on national television. Now, how do you think they feel about black women now?
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Even if I meet a Black woman who dates interracially, she always dates Black men
That’s like me. I’ve dated interracially most of the time, but I’ve also dated black men. It has nothing to do with the skin. It’s about how he makes me feel. I’m an equal opportunity dater.
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See here:
and here:
There are also several super curvy and and super gorgeous light skinned women that cold be put front and center by black men. Unless Black Men magazine has its “Latina edition”, or some member of the black underclass decides to put some light-skinned women in some video, dark-skinned women still get plenty of play.
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Don’t focus on the guys that got away, focus on the ones that are available, but eligible.
There are decent (Black) guys out there.
I think the only problem is, in America there are are more men than women, this has been mentioned in a few comments already. Whenever I think of that, it puts a damper on my mood.
Why would a guy commit to one woman when he can have a variety? I’m not looking to be anyone’s “sisterwife.”
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My mistake: more WOMEN then MEN in America.
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@Peanut —
I wish some Black men who exclusively date non-bw would just stop hiding the fact that they aren’t being open-minded, but close-minded and just admit “yes, i’m probably brainwashed.”
Yes, I think that some black men like that would do a lot of black women a tremendous favor if they would just tell them that no matter what black American women do, they are still going to to want a white woman over a black woman. That would save many black women so much anguish. But these black men won’t do that. They keep lots of black women suspended thinking that maybe they should wear different lipstick color, tighter clothes, more lip gloss, hair extension or weave, expensive perfume, have bariactric surgery if necessary to get thin, lie about their education so the man won’t feel threatened, have sex in all kinds of unsafe ways, cook, clean, say okay to the men having girlfriends and boyfriends, and so many other things. I’ve heard black women talk about these things.
I heard that one reason why some black women don’t want to lose much weight is because they’re scared they may also lose their curvy behinds too. If they do that, then they think black men won’t want them at all.
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@sepultura13
I can think of three girls I knew while growing up, whose angry mothers hated dark skin so much that they literally refused to let me enter their houses to play with their kids. They wanted their kids to be friends with the white and asian ones, and not me. Talk about a sick mind-set.
Disgusting but unfortunately, unsurprising in some that their feelings of wretchedness came to the surface and manifest in this way. I may have said it on another post but one girl I used to play with, Black father, White mother whose mother used to curse her, calling her a ‘Bl00dy Ni66a’ when she got particularly frustrated with her. I was there on one occassion, she apologised to me but not to her daughter….to say that the daughter didnt grow up with a significant degree of self loathing is to put it mildly.
Another angle to this that I guess WW only can answer. I used to work with a WW who dated a BM. When they broke up, she went for a ‘night out with the girls’ and got talking to a man who she liked. She talked about her recent break up to him, confiding that she was still a bit cut up but was looking to the future. Somehow or other the conversation came round to the fact that he was black (I dont know how I wasnt there, this is just what she told me) but, the WM was disgusted (apparently) and said that no decent self respecting WM would want her as she had been with a ………
I wonder if this is a common experience for WW who date across the ‘races’?
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“But, could you tell me this?
– How did the brainwashed, dysfunctional black man who finds a black woman ‘repulsive’ BECAUSE of her blackness (and thus, would not even go near even one) become ‘representative’ of black male sexual taste anyway?”
It didn’t happen. It’s not true.
Most black men who marry, marry black women.
Most black men who cohabit, are cohabiting with black women.
Most black men who are dating, are dating black women.
Most white women do not find black men attractive enough to marry or cohabit with and vice-versa.
For some strange reason, some black women seem to be unable to process this information.
The black men who do date or marry non-black women likely do so for a variety of reasons, most of which are particular to the individual. Some of those reasons are “valid” ;others are “invalid”. Either way it’s their life.
There are some people, who through feelings of inadequacy or bitterness at their own romantic failings or internalized hate, like to blame others for things. When white men do this , most people are able to recognize that the white man in the corner mumbling about how white women aren’t any good and they’re all going with those g****** n*****s has some rather serious issues he needs to work on.
When black women do the same, somehow we don’t call them on their bs.
If white men found black women more attractive we would not see this constant harping over BM/WW relationships. But that is not something Black men have any control over. That’s a question for White men. Why do white men marry or cohabit with black women in such low numbers? Dunno….
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I listened to the videos that satanforce posted and I had never heard some of that before. I think that black women are causing much of their own anger about this by begging black men to like them and getting the cold shoulder in return.
I guess black women don’t want to hear this, but black women like the one talking in the videos are the ones who won’t allow black American men to just tell them the truth. Why on earth are black men afraid to just say, ” I want a white woman or a woman who’s not black.” They don’t want black women anyway. What do the men have to lose? Then the women would be free to do whatever they want.
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@Demerera
I can only offer you anecdotal evidence, but it is apparently quite common. Particularly in areas where there is more overt racism.
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SG,
You just keep repeating your ANTI-BW BS/DENIALS of REALITY and that will make it all true.
EVERYONE can SEE that there is an epidemic of ANTI-BW BM who ONLY date/marry NON-BW because they are ANTI-BW HATERS.
These ANTI-BW BM PROVE they’re ANTI-BW HATERS by their CONSTANT PUBLIC trashing of the humanity, dignity, and femininty of BW as their JUSTIFICATION for being with NON-BW/for their RACIST REJECTION of BW.
The FACT is:
BW could CARE LESS who BM date/marry as long as they don’t
engage in ANTI-BW HATE as a JUSTIFICATION for doing so.
BM OWE BW THEIR LIVES and ALL DUE RESPECT period end of story.
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But that is not something Black men have any control over.
True. Black American women need to stop being angry with black men about this. I think they need to stop talking to black men about it too because the more they talk about it to the men, the more it hurts them. We can hear the hurt in the woman’s voice.
That’s a question for White men. Why do white men marry or cohabit with black women in such low numbers?
I don’t think they need to ask white men anything. The kind of black American women, especially the ones I’m around, who are younger, ordinarily attractive, and educated just need to let average white men know they like them by not acting cold and standoffish toward them. They need to socialize a lot more with white men and be patient. Sooner or later, they’ll hit paydirt. After all, what do black American women have to lose at this point?
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@ Laromana–
BM OWE BW THEIR LIVES and ALL DUE RESPECT period end of story.
I agree with all you say but obviously a lot of black women just need to pack their bags at this point and leave because a whole lot of black American men are not going to ever pay them back. The women are losing their self respect now by trying to collect on what’s owed to them.
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@Bulanik Absolutely and that needs to stop. Black men of the American variety are a marginalized group and have little compared to other groups, including a culture that doesn’t define masculinity based on who they are as men. When black women question their romantic choices they are undermining the right of a black man to be a man. At the same black women are perversely empowering these men with their insecurities about being black women and turn black men’s choices into a zero sum game. Asking a marginalized group of men to remedy something they have no real control over (how black women feel about themselves) and a monopoly they benefit from is impractical. I say stop putting premiums on what black men have to offer. All racial groups are the same including their capacity for affection, why put one under a microscope?
@jorbia If these women are educated then the critical thinking and analysis skills they acquired at university should have been enough for them to see past the “what they’re supposed to do” doctrine.
Also I’d like to take the game of chicken that black women play with black men off the table. If there are black men who want to make noise about who black women are with then let them. I think we can hold ourselves to better standard of conduct don’t you?
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@wanpimao
I can only offer you anecdotal evidence, but it is apparently quite common. Particularly in areas where there is more overt racism.
I hear you wanpimao and I can’t give stats, merely experience of this.
Another scenario I recall is a kid on my estate who’s father was Asian. They lost contact when the boy was a very young age and his mother (a WW) took up with a WM and he brought the lad up as his own. One of the kids on the estate took exception when this lad called him a racist name, and (having heard from his mother about this boys parentage), the other kid responded in kind! Well, the lads mother, went mad, going to the other kids parents house and raising hell. It seems that she had never told her son why although for all intents and purposes his skin was ‘white’, why it had an olive hue and tanned easily….
@bulanik
Could this be why we too often hear that only an ‘easy’ white woman would go with a black man, and why black men are only going with white women because they are ‘easy’ because if she sleeps with him, she’ll sleep with anyone?
In part, yes, I certainly agree with this but, for some it goes deeper. I think some WM feel that the image of BM in terms of sexuality makes them feel inadequate and they fear they wont match up to this. I think they feel deeply insecure about this and they therefore reject WW who have been with BM on this basis. This merely an anecdotal observation based on comments I have heard from some WM. This obviously is not the case where ALL WM are concerned but for some, it can be a signficant factor
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@WarrenAZ–
If these women are educated then the critical thinking and analysis skills they acquired at university should have been enough for them to see past the “what they’re supposed to do” doctrine.
Exactly. But I guess if you’re told something from day 1 that things are “supposed” to be a certain way, some people don’t question that. University educations don’t teach critical thinking skills like that. That should be taught at home or in the community.
If you look at the argument of black American women who want a black man for “aesthetic ” reasons, this is something they learned from other black Americans because only black American women think that way. There is nothing “that” aesthetically superior about a black man anyway. There are eye-pleasing men in all groups. A woman shouldn’t go by how a man looks anyway. African women I knew don’t think like that and women I didn’t learn that either. I think that’s just an excuse for black American women to cling to who they’re “supposed” to want. That’s safe.
Also I’d like to take the game of chicken that black women play with black men off the table. If there are black men who want to make noise about who black women are with then let them. I think we can hold ourselves to better standard of conduct don’t you?
True, but we all, as black women, need to say that everywhere so that the women hear that everywhere, all the time.
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“They need to socialize a lot more with white men and be patient. Sooner or later, they’ll hit paydirt. After all, what do black American women have to lose at this point?”
“I don’t think they need to ask white men anything.”
@Jorbia
Right. Any day now that pct of white men that marry black women will move from 0.35% to 0.40%. Any day now, white men will start picking black women first over White women, Asian women and Hispanic women.
“I don’t think they need to ask white men anything.”
Obviously some Black women most definitely DO need to ask white men why they are refusing to marry or cohabit with black women. It seems to be a sore point with many black women. It’s so unfair. I think every BWE woman should make it her daily duty to ask out 10 white men.
“SG,
You just keep repeating your ANTI-BW BS/DENIALS of REALITY and that will make it all true.
EVERYONE can SEE that there is an epidemic of ANTI-BW BM who ONLY date/marry NON-BW because they are ANTI-BW HATERS.”
@Laromana
Totally ridiculous. Some people just want to feel like victims. I see now why some other commenters responded as harshly as they did.
Writing in all caps doesn’t make an argument cogent. And I will continue to point out until it seeps into some people’s thick skulls, that in America the overwhelming majority of blacks and whites, marry, cohabit and have children within their own race.
So the people pitching a fit about IR marriages as being somehow damaging to their own romantic chances are often just bigots, control freaks or losers that couldn’t find someone to partner with even if all IR marriage was outlawed tomorrow.
Healthy adults don’t spend time worrying about what other people are doing or who they’re doing it with.
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@Shady Grady–
Right. Any day now that pct of white men that marry black women will move from 0.35% to 0.40%Any day now, white men will start picking black women first over White women, Asian women and Hispanic women.
I know you can’t imagine why any wm would pick a black woman over these other women and so to you, that’s unthinkable, but it’s happening more and more when black women socialize more around white men. It sounds like you’re trying to make black American women think that they can’t compete successfully against these other groups of women. I go out with white men all the time and I know dark skinned black women who do too. As I said, some of them have married wm.
You’re reinforcing black women’s insecurities, if they listen to you. I’m glad I didn’t grow up around black men like you. Black American women need to stop listening to men like you.
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@Demerera
I think some WM feel that the image of BM in terms of sexuality makes them feel inadequate and they fear they wont match up to this.
If white men feel this way, this fear comes from not knowing much about black men, except for the myths. If white men mixed more with black women, undoubtedly some black women would get rid of myths like that for them. When you keep people separate and they don’t get a chance to mingle with a variety of people in other groups, it’s easy to feed them lies about each other. No one group of men is superior sexually. It’s all about the individual man.
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Honestly I cant really say it goes one way with black men dating/married to white women. I guess most NOT ALL black men feel like they can date white women vice versa now unlike 60-70 years ago. To me Black men who degrade and have a personal vendetta against black women and praise white women have alot to do with how they were raised ,how their mothers were or environment. My personal experience in highschool when it came to black men were the worst. Alot of times they dated white girls cause they wanted approval from their “friends”.My two older brothers both black and a beautiful shade of dark brown both date pale white women. They lived in a predominantly racist white suburbia since childhood. Their mother (we have the same father not mom) basically abandoned them and left them so our father took custody of them both.
When they were in highschool all they dated was white girls since they were the majority. My eldest brother out of us three dated both black and white girls but mostly white girls in his life. His fiance is white and she is soo charming, wonderful, down to earth and she really loves my brother. My second eldest brother dates white girls only and nobody else, its his “preference” even though he said black women are “ghetto” and asian women aren’t “pretty enough”. I honestly think they try to look for a motherly type love in the arms of white women due to the fact that their mom wasn’t there but i feel like that shouldnt judge their opinions on black women in general or any other race of women, especially if they have a beautiful black sister lol. I remember this one time I was with my eldest brother in the car and we were going to the store and we drove past this black woman and her kids.
My brother says to me “Damn look how dark she is” I turn my head so fast and said “How can you say that when half of our family including yourself is darkskin?” he didn’t have a response for that one. There is nothing wrong with interracial dating Nothing! love is love, but black men who date interracially shouldn’t go around acting like they came from the stork only and not black women.
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jorbia says,
I know you can’t imagine why any wm would pick a black woman over these other women and so to you, that’s unthinkable, but it’s happening more and more when black women socialize more around white men. It sounds like you’re trying to make black American women think that they can’t compete successfully against these other groups of women. I go out with white men all the time and I know dark skinned black women who do too. As I said, some of them have married wm.
You’re reinforcing black women’s insecurities, if they listen to you. I’m glad I didn’t grow up around black men like you. Black American women need to stop listening to men like you.
laromana says,
EXCELLENT responses to SG’s IGNORANT/DELUSIONAL ANTI-BW DUMBASSERIES.
SG is just another typical POMPOUS/SELF HATING/SELF INVOLVED ANTI-BW HATER BM who thinks BW ACTUALLY CARE ENOUGH about what he thinks about them/their lives to allow it to affect their RIGHT to CHOOSE WHOEVER THEY WANT to date/marry.
Like you, I didn’t grow up in close contact with LOSER ANTI-BW HATER BM like SG and, when it comes to how I live MY LIFE, I certainly don’t pay attention to their ANTI-BW BS.
It’s this type of ANTI-BW HATER BM who will one day soon be “SHOCKED” to discover that they’re no longer the “flavor of the moment” to NON-BW and that BW have moved on to the type of NON-BM who (UNLIKE ANTI-BW HATER BM) DO LOVE/RESPECT BW/ARE OPEN/WILLING to seriously date/marry them.
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@jorbia
It’s all about the individual man.
True say Jorbia 🙂
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sepultura13 said:
“Ultimately, the only relationship I give a rat’s arse about is MY OWN – I think being happy with yourself and the one you’re with is what truly matters. If you’re a person who is overtly concerned with other people’s relationships, then you need to A) focus on your own issues with your own relationship, if you’re in one, or B) focus on your own issues within yourself so that you will be attractive to members of the opposite sex. Hating others is a major turn-off. So is being an arrogant, self-absorbed asshole.”
*************************************
THANK YOU – Ma’am
There is SO MUCH SCRUMPTIOUS GOODNESS (truth) in the above comment that I think it deserves special merit and recognition.
These words should be said or read again, and again, and again, and again until it’s burned into the psyche/mind of everyone reading this thread.
If all men and women, regardless of race or color, DID THIS, the world would be a much saner and happier place to exist in. If more women really practiced this thought pattern and point of view they be MORE attractive, appealing and in demand.
Maybe I’ll print/embroider these words on a nice piece of cloth, frame it and sell it as there seems to be a huge market for this simple, yet profound, advice!
*unless there’s copyright issues – issues*
: )))
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I wonder how many more of the “deluded race based misandrist feminist cult” or BWE are going to come over and spout their ish on this post!?
Silly, deluded women. No matter how much you point out the facts to them. They’ll still cover their ears and spout the same deluded ish.
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@sepultura13 —
“A) focus on your own issues with your own relationship, if you’re in one, or B) focus on your own issues within yourself so that you will be attractive to members of the opposite sex. Hating others is a major turn-off. So is being an arrogant, self-absorbed asshole.”
This really is totally excellent!! I especially like “B” because if you make yourself attractive to the opposite sex, you will increase your options with all men.
@Matari —
If more women really practiced this thought pattern and point of view they be MORE attractive, appealing and in demand.
So true. I’d better go do my workout now and work on my appeal 🙂
@Vindicator–
They’ll still cover their ears and spout the same deluded ish
Black American women would do wonders for themselves if they do cover their ears when negative others tell them that they can’t do normal things. Black American women have nothing to lose at this point. They might as well try-try-try.
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*Le sigh*
I’m young, so I haven’t lived/experienced as much as some of you folks, but it is painfully obvious (at least to me) reading through this thread that no one seems to be listening to each other. Aside from the more extreme opinions and trolling, I think there are valid points here…
*runs and take cover*
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@Bulanik
“It’s the idea that that the white woman becomes ‘stained’ and ‘unclean’ as a result of intimate contact with a black man…she’s soiled her race and lost her rank, no better than a black.”
It seems to me you are overthinking it. Some white people believe that white women who date other races (especially black) are pursuing men who are substandard. If they have low standards, that makes them similar to women who sleep around, who are easy – thus they are seen as sluts.
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@Demerera
part, yes, I certainly agree with this but, for some it goes deeper. I think some WM feel that the image of BM in terms of sexuality makes them feel inadequate and they fear they wont match up to this. I think they feel deeply insecure about this and they therefore reject WW who have been with BM on this basis. This merely an anecdotal observation based on comments I have heard from some WM. This obviously is not the case where ALL WM are concerned but for some, it can be a signficant factor
I think this is accurate. While racism plays a part, the real issue for white men is that they feel they CANNOT measure up to a black man sexually. In other words, their egos are bruised. For many white men, black male sexuality/masculinity is something they admire/envy and feel threatened by at the same time. It’s a double edged sword. Good when black men play sports, but not good when they date white women.
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Demerera,
The reason there is visceral unease when a white father’s daughter dates a black man is because rather than seeing the black man as a passive, brainwashed puppet of “white supremacy,” black man is seen as an imperial-minded, white hating creation of “black liberation.”
Now, put the shoe on the other foot and ask why the black father has little or no visceral unease when his daughter mixes with “white supremacy?”
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@Laromana, Jorbia
It must be a constant shock to close your eyes and wish so hard that reality would go away and yet when you open them again, it’s still there.
I didn’t insult either one of you and yet each you feel compelled to launch insults with anonymous people on an internet blog. That says something about your reading capacity, intellect and maturity level. Talk about stereotypes!!!
I didn’t make up the stats I quoted. White men prefer to date and marry white women. Black men prefer to date and marry black women. This is not news to anyone who lives in the real world. In fact, though you might want to sit down as this may be shocking to you, black men date and marry black women much more than white men do. Amazing I know.
But keep hope alive. You may well be able to find one of the 3 in every 1000 married white men that wants to marry a black woman. Good luck with that.
But if you do you will no doubt find that skin tones and facial features aside men are men and the same negative personality traits that would turn off a black man will also turn off a white man. Should you find marital bliss with a man of Caucasian origin you will no doubt find that most black men won’t care. I know I won’t. It’s usually bitter deluded black women that create all sorts of ridiculous conspiracies to explain why since all of 7% of black men have married white, they can’t find someone. Losers complain about other people’s lives and what they’re doing. Winners are concerned about their own affairs.
Now go out and there and find a white man!! We’re all pulling for you!!!!!
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The reason black women are so reluctant to marry white men is because of the unresolvable conflict that arises when HER culture suggests she is marrying “white supremacy” and the reality that she is almost certainly marrying a white beta male, i.e., one who is deracinated and into “abstract liberalism.”
It is in this scenario where the black woman is suggesting submission to “white supremacy,” but ultimately the unfeminine traits that made her stray will nonetheless rear their ugly head when confronted with the reality that she almost certainly married a real weak and wimpy “white boy.”
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Girls, offer them buttsecks and they will marry you in a thrice! That and being a great cook! At that point, they will not give a hoot as to what you are or what you look like! This is what most men tell me! Of course I believe them,ahem.
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@Thordaddy:
I hear you. I myself prefer a uber masculine, manly, robust, non-self sexualizing man. If that’s not in the cards, a hefty pay cheque will suffice!
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“… Black men prefer to date and marry black women. This is not news to anyone who lives in the real world. In fact, though you might want to sit down as this may be shocking to you, black men date and marry black women much more than white men do. Amazing I know….”
@ Shady_Grady
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes the truth hurts.
Sometimes the truth is hilarious.
That post was HILARIOUS!
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@Shady Grady–
“… Black men prefer to date and marry black women.
This must have something to do with why such a huge percentage of black American women are not married. . Black men may be preferring but they’re not marrying them. But hope springs eternal. Lots of black women will read this and continuing waiting.
This is not news to anyone who lives in the real world.
It is news to me since black men are barely marrying black women.
black men date and marry black women much more than white men do. Amazing I know….”
That’s not saying much, though. Anyone would actually expect that the men of a woman’s group would marry them much more. You really have low expectations for black men if you consider this an accomplishment.
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It is in this scenario where the black woman is suggesting submission to “white supremacy,”
I’ll just make this one comment to you. When I’m out with a white guy, I’m not out with “white supremacy.” That’s not on my mind because I’m out with just one man. So if that’s in your head, so be it.
but ultimately the unfeminine traits that made her stray will nonetheless rear their ugly head when confronted with the reality that she almost certainly married a real weak and wimpy “white boy.”
I’ve never had any complaints from white or black men about my feminine traits. You really shouldn’t take it upon yourself to be concerned about what a black woman’s husband is like. If she’s happy with him, that’s what she wants.
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@jorbia
If black men don’t get to use the “day 1” excuse then black women can’t have it either. Black women finding black men physically appealing doesn’t mean there is a lack of sophistication on their part.
But if you wanted to explore the influence of the media on what we find attractive in the opposite sex, a good opening question could be; Is the attraction black women have to black men influenced by the media? We assume that the attraction to the opposite sex in a group is natural but can this be proven in a society with higher saturation? Just something to think about.
As far as African women and the lower priority they place on appearance, that is a question of cultural adhesion. Culture, from what I’ve seen/read/studied, takes a back seat when the economy and the law provide the proper protections. So African women, just like any other group of women on the planet will place a higher priority on the physical appearance of a man if they have the opportunity to do so. (if you want to discuss this on the Open Thread let me know. I think it would be fun.
College can and does introduce a few different formulas for critical thinking and application. Most people will not get this at home because the parents are still instilling values. These values can’t be safely challenged in an unprotected environment (like the home) so the solution is the classroom, where ideas can be discussed and mediated by someone with relative authority and objectivity.
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@Peanut
My biology classes etc….are somewhat behind me but if I remember correctly from a biological/genetic perspective we actually have a innate desire to mate or breed with those who are different from us so as to avoid the whole “inbreeding” thing on a ethnic scale.
Basically if all you ever do is mate with the in-group eventually it ends up with out enough genetic variation to help it stay healthy or strong and you start having problems like hill people or cheetah’s.
That of course clashes with tribalism/nationalism etc….and the survival instinct that tells us to stay away from dangerous/unknown places to keep our odds of staying alive up.
So in reality except for racism etc…., everybody would have a higher desire to mate with “the other” whichever other that might be than their own in-group.
Think about the classic “tall, dark, stranger” for romance books or movies.
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@Peanut
Are you saying black people are as genetically dissimiliar from one another as each generally ethnicity is to one another?
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@leigh Yes, I do feel bad. Because you seem like a sensitive nice person and my mom always told me to respect women like you NO MATTER WHAT RACE YOU ARE> believe it or not I am a nice person at heart. Just becuase I disagree with your views doesn’t mean you should hate me. OK. SO maybe I misread it. My bad, You’re right. I’m wrong. See the big bad Italian white man can be humble.
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@ Peanut
You proposed a rhetorical question. But what’s interesting about it is how you painted a maternal image instead of a sexual or romantic one. This might be how you see yourself as black woman and how you view black men, like you see them as children.
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Sometimes Abagond I wish you had a delete button, I don’t really think Leigh hates me that came out wrong. I just think maybe conflicting views make Yankee vs. Red Sox thinking here. We are all people. I don’t think you are a Stormfront like site. I think you are a smart guy, and this is very thought provoking material that you do. If you were a hateful stormfront black style I wouldn’t be here. I just feel the white point of view is important here. Think about it how boring would it be without it?
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Maybe I travel in the wrong circles, but most black guys I know who prefer white women over black women have one thing in common: they are whitewashed. Going with white women is not the only “white” thing about them. Most spent an important part of their early years living in white neighbourhoods. The same, by the way, is true of most Chinese American women who mainly go for white men. And, from what I understand, the same is true of Sergeant Willie Pete and the blogger who runs the White Goddess blog.
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Willie Pete is a barrel of contradictions. He still wants to hold on to the proud to be black mindset as long as you are a black MAN. I don’t know why all of his followers say “he speaks the absolute truth” when there is more holes in his arguments than Swiss cheese.
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And if you are from the inner city he pegs you as a thug black who is a different mindset than him. Absolute crud
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@peanut are you more mad at the black guys who have long term relationships with these girls or just the casual relationships that seem to happen for the wrong reasons? If its the latter then thats not the type of man you should want anyway no matter who the guy or girl is basicly playing the field anyway. In that case the race of the people involved doesn’t matter because there are plenty of white men who play women as well. Maybe they are playing more WHITE women on average but who cares they are dogs too.
You wouldn’t want those WHITE men either. Maybe it’s easy for me to judge because I’m married. But it seems like women and men are looking for people for the wrong reasons.
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@Peanut
Fascinating! Nothing in my comment implies an anger on your part since a maternal figure is viewed as reserved, asexual, and long suffering but you still saw anger, even bitterness in that figure.
When I use term “sexual”, I’m not talking about the act of sex but more of the difference between the affection a man has for his mother and the affection he has for the woman/women he is attracted to. I also added the term “romantic” to illustrate this. Men don’t judge their mothers by their looks but by their actions. Men judge women who aren’t their mothers (or family) by their appearance, at least initially. So again you view the relationship between black women and black men as maternal and unromantic. You reinforced this by using the unconditional and nonreciprocating love a mother has for her son here:
“it’s always Black women running after Black men and trying to protect them even when some Black men turn their backs on Black women…Black women are very loyal to Black men, even if the Black man doesn’t date a black woman, wouldn’t touch a black woman, you can always find some black women running behind their azz trying to get their attention.”
Disclosing the intimate details of your sexual experience isn’t really necessary for the discussion and you aren’t obligated to do so in the future.
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@Peanut
if you’re offended you did it to yourself. I don’t think you are actually offended though, just embarrassed at the picture you painted. But you’re responsible for it and everything thought you’ve had since your “corruption” at the hands of “the world”.
You are more than welcome to discuss your sex life but don’t assume you have to for my benefit. Since it’s not relevant to subject or of no personal interest to me, I don’t know why you’d bother.
In my statement about the media I said “in a society with higher saturation” so I’m putting the question in the present context. Now can you prove that what black women consider to be an attractive black man now is the same as it was before the mid-90’s? What did black women consider to be a good looking black man in the 50’s? Duke Ellington was seen as one of the most attractive negro men of his time. So was Smoky Robinson and Max Juilen. Why?
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“….damn, I guess I better just forget about waiting until marriage to have sex cuz it seems like Black men are not into marrying Black women anymore anyway.”
——————————————————————————————————————–
@Peanut
I’ve read a few of your comments on this topic. I would say wait until you meet that special someone. No point wasting your jewels on a fool or fools who do not care about you.
I have spoken to many black women who would never go out with white men, not ever and other combinations of people who stick to their own as well.
I think these race discussions are good because they help you to hear the opinions of other people on the topic of race and race relations.
The way I view this topic of mixed relationships is basically each to his or her own. I’m not concerned about what people want to do with their life, as long as the person you are with loves you and cares about you, respects and values you, that is what counts above all else.
Of course, some people seem to want to go out with certain types of people because they are looking for a trophy. Relationships are about love, care, mutual respect, not about having a trophy or to get ahead.
Some black men have gone out with white women historically in the past in order to get ahead with their career.
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@ ShadyGrady from 21:52:07 (had typed this before work) – I think you are overlooking/ignoring a major fundamental point of why the issue of BM/WW relationships are a sore spot for many black women. Even if the majority of black men marry black women, the ones who don’t are very disproportional to the percent of black women who marry interracially. Additionally, far too many of the black men who marry interracially justify their “preference” by bashing black women. I know you think we should just let it roll off our shoulders – because why would we want them anyway – but I think you fail to realize that there seems to be a “silent majority” of black men who do not DEFEND us from these attacks. While there is a MINORITY of black men who actually actively and routinely do this, they are in many ways echoing the very hostile, negative anti-black woman rhetoric of society at large – and we are often times the ONLY people speaking out in our defense (and get to be labeled “angry” for being upset, and thus our emotions and reasons thoroughly and immediately invalidated) at something I would think ANYONE would be angry at if such vitriol was directed at them. If such sentiments were directed at white women, there would be no end to the white man’s rage and quest to stop it as I remarked on earlier. But even though the physical shackles and separation from us have been removed for well over a hundred years, we have yet to see anything approaching that level of protection from black men – especially enough to effectively muzzle the impact of those minority of vocal anti-BW men. Burke’s saying “all that is required for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing” is applicable to this situation. Why are black women not rigorously, immediately, and violently defended and protected by black men against these continued assaults on our dignity like white men do for their women?
As for the idea that we should jut continue our lives as “healthy adults who don’t spend time worrying about what other people are doing or who they’re doing it with” – again, if we lived in a vacuum society where nothing someone did or said affected anyone else, that certainly would be a reasonable approach to take. I’m not someone who stays awake at night thinking of all the black men currently in bed with non-black women. However, I will not pretend like the OPINIONS of some of these men, and the lack of black men who allegedly don’t share those opinions yet never seem to take a stand against them, do not and should not matter to me as a black woman existing in a society with black men. Just because I see a brother with a dark-skinned woman on his arm doesn’t mean that he can’t agree with the sentiments expressed by BW-hating black men. The misogyny in black men runs extremely high, and I only need to look at the rates of domestic violence – both fatal and non-fatal – to support me on this. The aspect of black men dating white women is a symptom of an underlying illness. I think your attempts to minimize this impact or even recognize the importance it on the macro scale are somewhat intellectually dishonest.
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**Please excuse typos and missing words, my keyboard sucks
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@Peanut
I imposed nothing, just giving my interpretation of your comment. I’m not subject to your level of comfort though. My comments aren’t rude, they just make you uncomfortable. You haven’t been called a name, no abusive language has been used, and I haven’t posted anything that could be viewed as racist. And again you disclosed the intimate details of your sex life and I still haven’t made any assumptions about your sexuality, I just pointed out that it was unnecessary because it has no bearing on the discussion. You’re not a victim here so why take on that position?
Anywho, I don’t have to addressed the perception of loyalty in an earlier post. Repeating it isn’t necessary; Wed 1 Feb 2012 at 14:36:52.
I still stand by what I said about your view of how black women and black men relate to each other. You believe black women should be rewarded for voluntarily supporting black men. (I’d personally like to know what black women are doing to support black men these days.) But its just like a mother voluntarily has children but wants a token of appreciation from them. I could take it step further and say you’re riding another black woman’s coat tails, more specifically his mother’s, to project a feeling of guilt onto black men so that they won’t choose black women like other men choose women but out of pure racial obligation. That could be seen as oppressive manipulation.
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@Peanut
One more thing and I’ll have to put this up later. I like being a black woman. I don’t need black men to like it or the media to validate it. I don’t support black men because they should be treated like men, I don’t owe them anything, they owe me nothing, and I’m not going to take credit for the support individual black women give to the men in their lives. Until you can say the same without condition, addendum, or disclaimer you’re more a part of the problem than I am.
Good Night.
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@Suzy
“Even if the majority of black men marry black women, the ones who don’t are very disproportional to the percent of black women who marry interracially.”
Exactly. And this is the real sore spot as I and others have mentioned. It is why on this post and others like it, black women who proudly boast of dating interracially still feel entitled and obligated to lambast black men who do the same. Total hypocrisy. If more white men found black women attractive enough to marry then we wouldn’t have the jealous vitriol that oozes out of some black women when the subject comes up. I don’t know what to tell you. Evidently white women find black men more attractive for dating/marriage than white men find black women. That is hardly the fault of black men. That said, though in general whites and blacks shun marriage to each other by massive margins.
“If such sentiments were directed at white women, there would be no end to the white man’s rage and quest to stop it as I remarked on earlier.”
I’m going to guess you don’t spend a lot of time at certain MRA sites or other conservative places. There are tons of white men who bash white women all day, every day. The only difference is that most of them like black women even less. If you stayed in those places you might come to believe that most white men hated white women, as some have stated here with races altered. That would be wrong because you’d be allowing the words of a small minority to speak for the majority. There are a few BWE sites that run black men down every chance they get. Should black women all feel compelled to come out against them every day to satisfy the hurt feelings of a some black man? Of course not.
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@Suzy
“Just because I see a brother with a dark-skinned woman on his arm doesn’t mean that he can’t agree with the sentiments expressed by BW-hating black men….The aspect of black men dating white women is a symptom of an underlying illness. I think your attempts to minimize this impact or even recognize the importance it on the macro scale are somewhat intellectually dishonest.”
Amazing. So much wrong in a few short sentences.
So never mind that you see a black man with a “dark-skinned woman” (she can’t be a light sister huh??). You KNOW that he hates black women. WOW.
And black men dating white women have underlying illness? OK. Because apparently two people could never fall in love or maybe just in lust like any other people on the planet. Does a white man dating a black woman by definition suffer from underlying illness or does that just apply to BM/WW? Because the woman’s melanin level is too low for you (although you’re not involved in their relationship) that means the man is sick. Hmm.
Well he may well be. I don’t say no to that. But he may have found someone who just happens to fit his needs. The woman may have found a man who shares her goals. There are a million and one reasons that people come together and none of them are anyone else’s business. It is I dare say somewhat presumptuous and intellectually dishonest to pretend we know what’s going on in someone else’s life and think we can run their life better than they can.
There is something wrong with the mentality of people who look at overwhelming numbers of monochrome partnerships, see a handful of interracial ones, and lose their religion. It’s about poor self-image and trying to control other people.
It is nothing but pure self-interest that is on display throughout the comments as black women attempt to marginalize and insult any black man who displays a preference for anyone lighter than say Jennifer Hudson. EVERY group (BM/WM/WW/etc does it. It is not particular to black women. People always try to use guilt, shame and fear to limit “their” opposite’s choices while appealing to freedom and openness to maximize their own.
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Ah you wacky African-Americans.
@Suzy
Though attributed to Edmund Burke, he did not actually say that. This is what he said:
Is that a joke? Surely you jest. This is 2012, not 1112, chivalry’s dead, and Romanticism isn’t coming back. White men protecting white women, what a joke.
Sex Trafficking, Gonzo porn (pioneered the term “hatefuc|<"), Domestic abuse, hook-up sex culture in colleges, the very existence of Eminem, chicks going out on "slutwalks" because police dissed them?
And don't even trying to bring up lynching. Protecting pu$$y is different from protecting women. The only white man I can think of "protecting" white women is Robert Jensen, and he's a little pu$$y.
Apparently, in your mind, the Tulsa Riots, Rosewood, the Civil Rights movement, Latasha Harlins, and that whole Kanazawa incident just went past you. Hell, you are on a blog owned by a black man who consistently defends black women.
In case you don’t know who Latasha Harlins is:
You women are real funny. Black men are supposed to be able to protect black women, as if they have same level of power, and ability to bend the law as white men can, when white men don’t even protect their own women. Where exactly are these examples of white men defending their women’s dignity?
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@ Shady_Grady and the rest of the fellas,
Who’s your favorite PAWG (Phat ass white girl)? It doesn’t have to be porn.
My list goes:
Sara Jay (yes I know she looks like the offspring a Ferengi and Lisa Lampanelli, leave me alone.)
Trish Stratus
Kelly Divine
Ice T’s wife Coco
Jayonna Fabro
Tiffany Rayne
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@ Bulanik
“Could you tell me how it is overthought?
(Just in the context of black men and white women, mind you.)”
The idea that the women are unclean, tainted doesn’t really come up. Some white men believe that white women who date black men have low standards, because they are accepting men who are seen as inferior. In most cases it’s that simple. From my experience, those who take it to the next level and believe the women are damaged in some way turn out to be either hardcore white supremacists/separatists or… some black men (black supremacists?) who believe that the women are ostracized because white men think they aren’t as good in bed as black men.
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@ Shady Grady:
“Exactly. And this is the real sore spot as I and others have mentioned. It is why on this post and others like it, black women who proudly boast of dating interracially still feel entitled and obligated to lambast black men who do the same. Total hypocrisy. If more white men found black women attractive enough to marry then we wouldn’t have the jealous vitriol that oozes out of some black women when the subject comes up. I don’t know what to tell you. Evidently white women find black men more attractive for dating/marriage than white men find black women. That is hardly the fault of black men. That said, though in general whites and blacks shun marriage to each other by massive margins.”
Let’s take this line “If more white men found black women attractive enough to marry then we wouldn’t have the jealous vitriol that oozes out of some black women when the subject comes up”… because you are exactly proving my point that you are pretending you are missing. What causes someone… men in particular… to be attracted to women? By and large, their physical appearance. Not saying that it’s the only factor, but certainly the primary factor that encourages most men to develop an interest in approaching a woman. If white women are heralded in colonialized nations across the world as the most desirable, the most feminine, the most valuable… does it not follow that this can and does influence the skewed ratios of BM/non-BW vs. BW/non-BM relationships? And please show me exactly where I blamed BM for WW finding BM more attractive than its inverse gendered pairing. My main and consistent point regarding BM has been in their lack of protecting BW when it comes to attacks in our society against BW, and this coupled with the rate at which they “date out” provides what I think is a reasonable cause for BW to have some personal animosity regarding this pairing, REGARDLESS of whether it is our business or involves us directly or WHATEVER.
“If such sentiments were directed at white women, there would be no end to the white man’s rage and quest to stop it as I remarked on earlier.”
“I’m going to guess you don’t spend a lot of time at certain MRA sites or other conservative places. There are tons of white men who bash white women all day, every day. The only difference is that most of them like black women even less. If you stayed in those places you might come to believe that most white men hated white women, as some have stated here with races altered. That would be wrong because you’d be allowing the words of a small minority to speak for the majority. There are a few BWE sites that run black men down every chance they get. Should black women all feel compelled to come out against them every day to satisfy the hurt feelings of a some black man? Of course not.”
Congrats on completely missing the point. Misogyny is deep in men of all races. I don’t think I needed to point that out because I never stated anywhere that only black men hold animosity towards the women of their race. But you know, it sure is funny that regardless of these white men bashing white women, they don’t do so publicly (i.e. on TV/interviews/songs-popular music and culture/magazines/etc., etc., etc.)…. nor has it caused them to “date out” at the rate of black men. So I fail to see how any of this disproved anything I have written. You have also further proved my point by saying that it is a small minority of white men bashing white women, while the MAJORITY, accompanied by white privilege of holding so much power in society at large, do LOUDLY and CONSISTENTLY and IMMEDIATELY come to white females’ defense they they even perceive that their superiority/safety/etc. is being attacked. Or do you also deny the existence of the “missing white woman” syndrome?”
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@ Satanforce – I will not engage with you. You are irrationally hostile, overly prone to personal attacks and it’s really a complete waste of my time. Cheers.
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@Peanut–
but maybe i should just jump on the bandwagon and stop caring about what Black men go through. Stop signing the petitions, stop supporting the Black men organizations/fraternities, stop speaking up when people stereotype Black men and drag their names through the dirt (no one speaks up for us), stop caring when a Black man get followed around a store, stop caring when the woman at the front desk won’t let a Black man into the building because he’s wearing a hoodie and she thinks he looks like a criminal…stop complaining to management and siding with Black men when they feel they’ve been discriminated against, stop donating money to Black men organizations. Just stop because that would be the non-oppressive thing to do.
Yes, you should stop making the list of things you do for them longer and longer. You will only become more and more miserable because they are never going to pay. So, you will be miserable for all of your life. Do you want to waste your life begging black men to want you?
If all black men disappeared, you would find another man you would like just as much or more. Pretend they’ve all disappeared. The kind of black American man that you and many black American women are looking for has disappeared. Obviously.
Find your own happiness and forget about men who don’t like you. Don’t carry your misery around. It’s a turn off. Start today. Find your Hispanic, white, or other hunk of man and be happy.
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@WarrenAZ–
If black men don’t get to use the “day 1″ excuse then black women can’t have it either. Black women finding black men physically appealing doesn’t mean there is a lack of sophistication on their part.
I was guessing about why some black American women seem to be addicted to black men like a drug. I can’t understand women like that.
Granted that it’s harder for black American women to be with white men due to history, current racism and therefore, current racialized beauty standards, still, percentage-wise, there are men from other groups who really like black women. If the women focus on those other men, those men will respond. It’s like staring at somebody. They will sense that and begin to look at you.
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@ Shady Grady cont’d:
“Amazing. So much wrong in a few short sentences.
So never mind that you see a black man with a “dark-skinned woman” (she can’t be a light sister huh??). You KNOW that he hates black women. WOW.
And black men dating white women have underlying illness? OK. Because apparently two people could never fall in love or maybe just in lust like any other people on the planet. Does a white man dating a black woman by definition suffer from underlying illness or does that just apply to BM/WW? Because the woman’s melanin level is too low for you (although you’re not involved in their relationship) that means the man is sick. Hmm.”
I would say that you need to go back and read that paragraph in its entirety, but based on the fact that you conveniently just included that one sentence and not the sentences that give it the appropriate context so you could claim an intellectual “gotcha!” tells me that it was done on purpose. The entire comment for your reading pleasure:
“However, I will not pretend like the OPINIONS of some of these men, and the lack of black men who allegedly don’t share those opinions yet never seem to take a stand against them, do not and should not matter to me as a black woman existing in a society with black men. Just because I see a brother with a dark-skinned woman on his arm doesn’t mean that he can’t agree with the sentiments expressed by BW-hating black men. The misogyny in black men runs extremely high, and I only need to look at the rates of domestic violence – both fatal and non-fatal – to support me on this. The aspect of black men dating white women is a symptom of an underlying illness.”
I did not state that I know that all black men with black women hates black women. I did not even state that I “KNOW” that SOME of black men with black women hate black women. I specifically made that comment in the context to prove that even black men with black women doesn’t necessarily preclude them from having animosity toward black women, much like the lame “I have black friends” statement is somehow meant to preclude white people from harboring negative opinions about people of color. Absolutely no one in a society or community operates completely devoid of influence from the prevailing opinions and attitudes of that society. If you’re a baby born in a predominantly Muslim society, odds are pretty damn high that you’re going to die a Muslim. If you’re a baby born in a predominantly Christian society, odds are pretty damn high you’re going to die a Christian. And if you’re born in a society steeped in the prevailing attitudes of white privilege, I don’t really think it’s an insane leap of logic to conclude that this will affect the way minorities perceive ourselves and fellow minorities. For your opinions to be derived from a perspective of “it’s not your business/it doesn’t affect you/so why do you care” fails basic Psych 101. Additionally, if you are going to take my statements out of context and then construct strawmen arguments based on things that I didn’t even state, then I guess I will ignore you like satanforce. I have been reading this blog for several months and just figured there was an opportunity to engage in reasonable debate, even if we hold different perspective.
“Well he may well be. I don’t say no to that. But he may have found someone who just happens to fit his needs. The woman may have found a man who shares her goals. There are a million and one reasons that people come together and none of them are anyone else’s business. It is I dare say somewhat presumptuous and intellectually dishonest to pretend we know what’s going on in someone else’s life and think we can run their life better than they can.
There is something wrong with the mentality of people who look at overwhelming numbers of monochrome partnerships, see a handful of interracial ones, and lose their religion. It’s about poor self-image and trying to control other people.”
It is nothing but pure self-interest that is on display throughout the comments as black women attempt to marginalize and insult any black man who displays a preference for anyone lighter than say Jennifer Hudson. EVERY group (BM/WM/WW/etc does it. It is not particular to black women. People always try to use guilt, shame and fear to limit “their” opposite’s choices while appealing to freedom and openness to maximize their own.”
I have ALREADY STATED that is is well possible for two people to fall in love who just happen to be of different races. In FACT, it was the VERY SENTENCE before the one that you decided to take out of context to pounce on me for:
“It is definitely possible that two people can fall in love and be compatible, but just happen to be of different races. I also understand that the vast majority of black men marry black women… but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they do not agree on some level with the negative sentiments espoused by the black-woman hating black men who date interracially.”
And I really and truly do not understand what you mean in your paragraph starting “it is nothing but pure self-interest”… Good f-ing grief. Let me just sum my points up for you real quick like since you seem to “miss” them over… and over.. and over again.
1) More BM date and marry interracially than BW.
2) A minority of BM bash BW and praise non-BW.
3) BW and BM exist in a society that was essentially created on racism (America would NOT exist as a first-world superpower without the unpaid labor and sacrifice of the “lower IQ-d” negroes.
4) This racism permeates the way out society operates at both a micro and macro level, in ways that are blatant, subtle, and invisible; conscious, sub-conscious, and unconscious; but almost always in ways that we routinely deny or refuse to confront.
5) This creates a unique situation for BW, who are both victims of misogyny by BM and racism by WM and WW i.e. intersectionality.
6) Contrary to WM, BM do not on a MACRO SCALE come to the support and defense of BW.
7) Point 6, coupled with points 1 and 2, = justification for BW to hold personal opinions about BM/non-BW pairings.
8) You routinely and completely deny any rationale for BW to care or have negative feelings towards BM/non-BW relationships, despite points 1 and 2 being 100% provably true, and point 6? Your anecdotal evidence of BM who defend BW can be far outmatched by the anecdotal evidence I can find of the reverse, I’m sure.
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“damn, I guess I better just forget about waiting until marriage to have sex cuz it seems like Black men are not into marrying Black women anymore anyway…I better get mine while I still can…cuz the way things are going these days…it seems not enough Black men even care about Black women.”
**************************************
I know you’re feeling hurt, lonely, upset, frustrated …
But be wise in all things.. don’t cut off your nose to spite your face!
The good/right man is very much worth WAITING for – IF you will be patient enough.
In the meantime, be the one in control of your urges rather than have those urges in control of you. You KNOW of ALL the potential negative outcomes and consequences …
If you wait, you’ll find the right man in your life who’ll do his best to protect and support you in every good thing.
You don’t need ENOUGH black men to care about you/black women!
You only need one. The right one. Hopefully, you’ll be able to recognize HIM when he appears. In the meantime, you can make yourself READY for this relationship/marriage by doing self-improvements that will attract the type of man you’re seeking. It’ll work out …
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I’ve been lurking for quite some time. This post caught my eye and I was curious to see how the commentary would differ from the White man, Black woman post. One thing I notice is that there tends to be more vocal disdain from some of the men on both post than the women. That doesn’t say there there aren’t any BM-bashing BW as well but the men seem to think less of their bashing than the women. Usually I thought women talk the most. heh. Men in my opinion usually have the advantage in interracial relationships and like the commenter Mira said male privilege will always be above racism.
My views on BM/WW relationships is most of the time non-existent. I guess the only time it’s gotten in my way is when some people in these types of relationships go far and beyond their way to make me notice them. Did they think I’d get jealous? I’ve actually never been in a relationship with a Black or White men and part of it was mostly due to me growing up in Asia. I’m not stranger to self hating Black men and women and honestly Black people would be better off without them. It’s not like all Black men are like that and all will never be like that. It’s best to just keep such negativity as far away from one self as you can.
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In which of my recent posts did I personally attack you? Your statement above is nothing more than a deflection, and my hostility has only been towards those who spout non sequitors, and hit-and-run posters with a personal agenda.
Also, I am quite sure that if that were true, Abagond, would have had banned me, or at least warned me by now.
I have shown several examples, both historical and recent, of Black men defending black women on a “Macro” scale.
That would be true, but also irrelevant. You are shifting your position from:
“Black men don’t support black women as much as black women support black men”
to the reverse, “Black men harm black women more than they support them .”
The latter statement, the reverse claim, is a commonplace, for men of all races. And moving the goalposts is still a logical fallacy.
When the CDC released those stats about black women have a herpes rate of 50%, who was it in the Clutch Magazine forums that look at the sample sizes and saw that black women had been oversampled? Who looked at the results and noticed that the 50% was for production of herpes antibodies, not herpes itself?
Black men.
When Young Berg was talking about “dark butts”, didn’t black men clown him on youtube and elsewhere? And the same with Lil’ Wayne?
Well, let’s examine the bolded area. A small minority of white men may actually bash white women, but that is not the only form of misogyny. A large meritocratic organisation that actively engages in the humiliation and rape of women is the US military.
From FoxNews.com
The Tailhook scandal
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Hey eevryone!! It;s time again for another episode of Satanforce Theatre!!! Today we have a special treat from the era of Buppie Blaxploitation (late 90s to early 00s). It is The Brothers (2001), with scenes by Bill Bellamy!! Oh don’t worry, you’ll still get to see Morris Chestnut and Shemar Moore.
Without further ado.
So here we see Bil Bellamy casually disrepecting a black woman in an authority position. Why would he do such a thing to a “sista”?
Stay tuned!
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Hmmmm. Let’s see…
1. No respect for female authority figures (you can see they changed the script from black bitch to black woman)
2. A casual misogyny almost bordering on sociopathy
3. Use of the common racist stereotypes used by white conservatives to bash black men
4. Sexually loose, unwilling (or unable) to sustain meaningful relationships with women
5. Resolves to fix issues with black women by seeing only white women
Sounds to me like he’s on of those SOME BM. An ANTI-BW BM. But why is he this way/ Too much BET? A girl laughed at him when he was broke? Let’s see his next move.
Oh. Dear. Me. He even struck out with the nice tittied blonde. And you can see that she was really into him. Now he is just a bullshit man. Like he always was. But why? What is the source of his bullshittery?
Like many black single mothers, Bill’s mother is unaffectionate. So he himself is unaffectonate. And he takes this out on black women , especially those with authority. He does not love them – after all why would you expect any of those women to treat you any better than your own mother treated you? A man who has been mistreated by his mother like that is bound to distrust, and women and will not be able to form meaningful relationships with women, of his race or otherwise.
But back to his mother. She disrespects his father, and the women that they left her for. She also compares both her sons to their fathers. And we have all heard of this before. In Jamaica we hear single mothers say that their son’s are “wutliss like yu daddy” (worthless like your daddy), and the insults hurled at Bill Bellamy above.
What has happened in communities in the Black diaspora is that black single mothers have become deified, and thus immune to criticism. The result is that they can verbally abuse their son’s, causing them to grow up with dysfunctional attitudes towards women that look like their mothers. The verbal abuse that is hurled at children by their custodial parents has a name – parental alienation.
Black women have not been held accountable for actions that negatively affect their young sons. Instead black women are always considered victims, some have seemingly developed a misplaced victim/persecution complex against black men whom may have not meant them any harm.
It would be useful for black women to see how their actions have affected young black men and do what the gentleman below is doing below – introspect.
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@Bulanik & eco
Bulanik says: It’s the idea that that the white woman becomes ‘stained’ and ‘unclean’ as a result of intimate contact with a black man…she’s soiled her race and lost her rank, no better than a black.
eco says: It seems to me you are overthinking it. Some white people believe that white women who date other races (especially black) are pursuing men who are substandard. If they have low standards, that makes them similar to women who sleep around, who are easy – thus they are seen as sluts.
I’m confused as to how Bulanik is overthinking things? I appreciate that there is a literal meaning to the word Slut i.e. a woman who has sexual relationships with a lot of men without any emotional involvement or <lose/no morals, but, in common vernacular, women like this are also labelled as ‘nasty’ or ‘dirty’, certainly in the UK anyway.
So, in this instance, I can see why Bulanik would come to this conclusion. IMO you are both understanding the same thing but from different angles i.e. WW who date BM and other races = Slut =Sullied and tainted or ‘Stained’ and ‘Unclean’ and WW who do not date outside their race = ‘purer’ and ‘cleaner’ than those that chose to date IR.
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@ Peanut
Not a good idea, but if that’s what you want to do then it’s your life.
Matari said what I would have said.
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I didn’t watch any of these videos because I’m mostly a happy person and I’m not going to subject myself to the contents of these.
What causes some of us black women to close our minds to these discussions is the almost total blame put on black women for just about everything. Here you are with the “horrible black mother” meme.
Maybe these black women weren’t shown any affection either as children by their fathers or their mothers. Black men say they didn’t have good male role models and that’s why they do bad things, but they still turn around and blame black women who also didn’t have the good role models because their mothers were struggling too. Like you’re saying, it’s hard to give affection if you didn’t get any as a child. I think too many black people are broken people having children with other broken people.
Lots of biracial children of BM/WW relationships are broken too. There are plenty of broken white women who become white babymamas and get abandoned by their black man sperm donors. More of those biracial children are ending up in foster homes too. Broken.
This is why more and more younger, educated black American women I know have planned not to ever have children. It’s too risky.
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jorbia–
i have really appreciated you comments on this post. you’ve been thoughtful & civil even when frustrated by pettiness, insecurity, ignorance & the ever popular concern trolling.
peanut aka proudchocolategirl–
never let them see you sweat, girl. i live the hell out of that motto.
you requested that Abagond write this post. i have to be honest & say that seems a little masochistic. it takes a whole lot of denial not to know where this would end.
take matari’s advice–all except the wait on a man part. no offense, but this is a huge planet & there’s much you can do with your time besides
waiting.
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@Demerera
I do see how “slut” can mean both. When I used it, I meant the literal, dictionary meaning, not the slang one. I my opinion the idea that these women are damaged goods (stained, unclean) is rare, but the idea that they are pursuing substandard men is something much more common.
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But I appreciate you reading the comments nonetheless.
Strawman. I am merely stating that not holding black women accountable for their behaviour is one of the main causes of dysfunction in the children they are responsible for. Once they grow up, their complexes are theirs to fix.
Brothawolf has posted an excellent article on mental illness in the black community, and why it goes untreated.
Irrelevant. The mothers are projecting their rage at their babyfathers at their sons, who look and have similar mannerisms as their fathers. It has little to do with lingering childhood issues.
@temple
Like black women who are not attracted to black men posting in a comment section about black men and white womenin intimate relationships?
It’s very interesting that you would bring up concern trolling , seeing that you are a known regular at Beyond Black and White, one of the most popular BWE sites right now. And to come on a blog post that is discussing black men in relationships with white women is either rather masochistic on your part, or is merely trolling in bad faith on your part. Shouldn’t you be back on Mrs. Karazin’s site, discussing how you will get white men to protect you?
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really satanforce you need to calm yourself. do you think that you are “outing” me. this is the internet, not the CIA. i don’t need government clearance to read, comment on any blog that i choose to.
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Here are some examples of some famous BM/WW relationships.
Sir Seretse Khama and Ruth Williams
Interesting Fact: Botswana was among the world’s poorest countries but during Seretse Khama’s tenure as president, Botswana had the fastest growing economy in the world. Khama instituted strong measures against corruption and reinvested money into infrastructure, health and education. In 2009, Seretse and Ruth’s fist son, Ian, won a landslide victory and became the fourth President of Botswana. Their younger son, Tshekedi , was elected as a parliamentarian.
Joseph Philippe Laroche and Juliette Lafargue
Frederick Douglass and Helen Pitts
see more examples of interracial couples here:
http://listverse.com/2011/01/25/10-fascinating-interracial-marriages-in-history/
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@satanforce–
Irrelevant. The mothers are projecting their rage at their babyfathers at their sons, who look and have similar mannerisms as their fathers. It has little to do with lingering childhood issues.
Are you trying to play mental health expert? Even most experienced psychiatrists can’t pinpoint with accuracy why people do what they do. People are too complex. You’re just conveniently assigning blame to match your theories because you obviously have a need to vent against black women.You haven’t been inside these black mother’s brains to find out anything about them. You cannot prove it didn’t come from being starved for affection from their fathers and mothers or whatever else. As you said, people who don’t get love and affection themselves don’t have it to give others later in life, unless they are the exception.
It’s well documented that one reason why so many teen black girls get pregnant is because they’re seeking the male affection and attention from any male that their babydaddy fathers who abandoned them, never gave them. They have father-hunger. Plenty of those mothers you’re blaming have had to make do without male affection themselves.
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My last comment in this thread.
@ Peanut–
I want more Black men to stop bull sh*tting and just admit that the reason for that is they’re r-cist because they grew up in a r-cist culture/world that places Black women at the absolute bottom of every thing.
They are not going to stop it and it won’t matter how much you beg. It gives them pleasure for you to beg them because they interpret that as them having power. Who else can they bash and have such fun? Who else would beg a black man for anything?
Black men are sexist and racist because they want to be sexist and racist. Black men rage on here against white men for being racist and don’t let white men off the hook for being racist, so don’t give black men any excuse for being racist either. Don’t blame the racist culture or world. People are racist and sexist because they are benefiting from it. Don’t let people fool you. They could and would stop being racist and sexist if they didn’t benefit from it.
I’m a black woman and I have never believed I was at the bottom of anything. You are not at the bottom either unless you have put yourself at the bottom. Black men certainly don’t have the power to put you or anyone else at the bottom. Free your mind, my sister. It doesn’t matter what people call you, it’s what you answer to that counts.
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Smoooothhhhh and delectable
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(Takes a deep breath.) (man. I’m not gonna get any work done today.)
First, the concern trolling comment was directed toward temple. not you peanut.
Second, and the main issue. You probably think that I don’t like black women too much, especially when I’m trolling Demerara and sepultura. Of course I say ridiculous things for my own amusement and people’s reactions.
This post is not one of those times.
I have noticed recently, in my city, a callous disregard for young girls, from the ghettoes.
From the Jamaica Gleaner
and
I have to agree that young black women, especially those that are poor, are seen as adults, because they are engaging in adult activities. Which is retarded.
But then , what is to be done?
What you can do
Literacy – One of my friends had asked me to help some of the guys in my community to learn how to read. They had not wanted to use government or other programs, because those were public, and open-air, and they did not want to be embarrased in public.
So two hours every evening,for two months, I would help trainee security guards, trainee drivers and some other slow learners to read. When the holidays were over, some of the parents in the community asked for me to help their teenage daughters and sons with reading and math for CSEC exams.
What I had realised was that a lot of those girls,had never felt any sense of accomplishment in their lives. So just being able to complete their times tables, much less solve quadratic and simultaneous equations, gave them a feeling that they never felt before.
I did check up on them from time to time, and their parents had told me that they did settle down, and started to focus on their schoolwork more. One parent who had described her daughter as being too “fucky fucky” said that she was no longer promiscuous.
I don’t know if they changed whatever sexual habits they may have previously had as a result. But two of the nine chicks got their Assoc. Degrees a year ago, and another young man just got into the Maritime Academy to start training. But, there is also the issue of
Finances
Let’s face it. A lot of these chicks is fucking for money. But it is not prostitution, it is survival sex. I Remember seeing this chick, who had said when she was 15 at the time, come to house in my gated community with an empty plastic bag, and walk out with a slight limp and a full plastic bag. Telling the police would not have helped seeing that the home was the residence of a police Inspector. I had asked some of the shopkeepers in the area offhandedly, if they wold give away food, to people who have to go a few days without food. Got laughed at. Same thing with session promoters. And to tell you the truth, I don’t know what to do about that.
The Internet
Using social media as a medium to shame sickfuck child molesters is an idea I have been thinking about, basically putting up pictures of these older guys to shame them, like a youtube, or facebook version of “To Catch a Predator.” Clearly highly centralised organisations like the NAACP are not the way to go, the focus should be on creating decentralised, but robust, organisations like Wikileaks and Anonymous.
I hope you find my ideas helpful.
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Leigh204—
She is by far most white people, yes. Her mother is all Euro ancestry, Irish and Italian iirc. Her father was Armenian, which is certainly Caucasian/West Eurasian (the same major geographic race as white Euros), and Armenians are Christians and tend to be similarly successful as Ashkenazi European jews, so yeah they’re thought of as white pretty much.
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Abagond—
Not sure where you’re getting that number. I think it’s high.
Among married white women in 2010, only 0.7% had a black husband according to the US census.
There are about 6x as many whites as blacks, so the translation from my census number would by 4.2%, whereas 1 in 12 is about 8.3%.
A few usually not super hot, but usually pretty, white women marry rich and famous black athletes and movie stars. Most white women black man marriages though are between fat white proles and black men with good jobs.
White women in general are considerably harder to get into bed, STD epidemiological and other studies show, but the sort of white woman who will date black men often are very slutty.
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I suppose I shouldn’t say this, but I don’t give a crap if you’re caucasian, black, white, asian, whatever… a gorgeous woman is a gorgeous woman.
I just happen to think that the most gorgeous women amongst gorgeous women are black women.
Just in case some of you forget. 😉
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@Doug1
White women in general are considerably harder to get into bed, STD epidemiological and other studies show, but the sort of white woman who will date black men often are very slutty.
In terms of WW not being harder to get in to bed, I suppose it may depend on where you live I guess but, I can tell you categorically that this is not the case in my locality though I appreciate that your comment is merely anecdotal
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About the white guys not wanting a ww who’s had a sexual relationship with a bm, it’s all about the insecurity and fear of said wm not being sexually able to fulfill, or ‘compete’ with her sexual experiences. Just a load of crap, really. Just man up and forget the past, try to be the best man for her now and in the future.
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Most men like ‘slutty’ women, because they are easy, but do not respect them afterwards. But why should a man respect himself wanting slutty, easy women? Wouldn’t that make the man slutty, easy himself?
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Some more pictures of black men in relationships with black women.
http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos.html
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I meant with white women.
More pictures
http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos2.html
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Most men like ‘slutty’ women, because they are easy, but do not respect them afterwards
So thats where I was going wrong…..JOKE
I share the same view as Bulanik and Peanut though, in fact my best friend is in a relationship with a BM as are quite a of my friends and they are would never be considered as sluttish or amoral in my eyes. They are merely decent people who opened their hearts and found love….
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@Bulanik
Hannu may be onto something
I dont doubt it. There are probably countless men who got hitched to the ‘girl next door’ when they really lusted after the ‘slag down the lane’ and there are many who probably tried to have both….
What a woman aye, who can be a ‘cook in the kitchen, a lady in the parlour and a whore in the bedroom…’
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Basically yeah; Amber Rose’s non-white heritage is too apparent for her to ever truly be white.
@Doug1
You just listed Italians as pure whites?
The Irish, mostly “white” but not totally, they are like 99.999999999999% white but one drop rule doesn’t allow it.
Articles back in the use to mention their “swarthy” skin as compared to other “white” europeans, yeah I know crazy as hell but there you go.
Armenians are caucasian but like mentioned in this thread so to are the Indians from India, being caucasian doesn’t make you white.
“Whiteness” is a cultural idea as much as a racial one; its why until around 1908, the Irish, Italians and Finns weren’t considered white.
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I do not care with whom or with how many men my woman has dated or slept as long as she does not have any health issues or have VDs. I have met and dated women whom some might think as “slutty”, and I have met women whom everybody was thinking as Holier than Holy who in reality were really nasty and morally lost, hateful and evil towards their fellow humanbeings.
Actually I don’t care what others think about the woman I am in a relationship with. Why should I? Who knows why people are talkin? Main thing is that she is honest, monogamist with me as I am with her, and that we are having a good relationship. Who cares what somebody out there might be thinking or talkin or what ever?
I had a very good relationship with a woman who happened to be former stripper, porn actress and yes, did some gigs as a call girl. She was smart, funny, very very honest about everything, more honest than so called “good girls”, and very kind and liked tenderness and soft cuddling a lot. She was a good cook, a good companion, and very funny friend. One of the best women I have ever met anywhere in my life.
I never felt anything about her backround or previous work or that stuff. Why should I? I did not ask with how many guys she had been, how many movies she made etc. I was not with her because of that. I was with her because I really liked her. Unfortunately she moved to another city so things ended between us but we are still friends, she still calls me, she has three kids now and another professional life etc. She survived, turned her life around, is a happy mother etc.
No, I am not going to tell her stage name because some stuff is still out there, but this story just shows that it doesn’t matter what people say or talk about who is slutty and who is not. If woman is ok, who cares with whom she slept last week or the year before. Main thing is that there is genuine feelings, honesty, caring and respect between the people in the relationship. Outsiders can go gossiping and tellin tall tales to themselves. I don’t care.
So if a white woman has had sex with a black man, who cares? If a black woman has had sex with white man, who cares? As long as they don’t hurt anybody and it is ok between them, it is their business. Not mine.
Pedophiles are different thing. Pedophiles are pedophiles. Period. They should be locked up. Period. No mercy. No explanations. Just lock them up. If you are a grown man hitting on girls in their teens, you are a pedophile. Period. If a guy is 30 and she is 15, that is a clear cut case. If the guy 25 and the girl is 15, same thing. If the girl is 15 and the guy 20, same thing. There is a reason for the legal age limits and it is up to the grown up to make sure things don’t go sick. The older guy is the one who is making the desicion. And if he goes for a teen, no matter what that teen has done or said or implied, that guy is a pedophile. No explanations. That is my take on that.
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so, wait, some people think white women who sleep with black men are “impure”? WTF, people?
Now when I think of it, it’s a perfect example of racism and sexism working together.
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“so, wait, some people think white women who sleep with black men are “impure”? WTF, people?
Now when I think of it, it’s a perfect example of racism and sexism working together.”
*************************************
I think of it simply as the debilitating long reach of WHITENESS –
It’s beyond insidious!
It’s everywhere … affecting everything … and everyone..
… in one form, or another.
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@ Peanut
I pretty much agree with what Matari said to you.
I know this has been a rough thread for you, but there was no other way it was going to be. I said it would get ugly. This fight breaks out almost every time white women are brought up, which is sad and ironic, but so it is.
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I agree with Shady Grady and Satanforce: it is unfair to paint all or most black men with the words of the bashers. Particularly when there are ten times more black men married to black women than to white women. Since when do words count for more than actions?
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” I just want some respect so that young Black girls don’t have to grow up believing there is something wrong with them.”
*co-sign*
…I would add: I want Black boys to grow up believing blackness is beautiful.
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a couple things… it’s kind of funny but you all are tending to ‘monolithize’ “white” people to some degree,
I mean you talk about IR divorce statistics, but were the marraiges integrated into the extended family with approval, were there kids, was there a relocation involved on one party, etc.
It is too ‘high-level’ to discuss divorce rates i think, in context to this argument with out really drilling down into some deeper social tangents…
and now i am getting some wierd thoughts, after all, i seek out a certain type of female, i like her to be shorter than me and black and very dark complexion, and you are implying that segment is ‘left-over’ by black guys or something. it is giving me a headache, for real.
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MinnieB said:
This seems like a reasonable desire, and one that is likely uncontroversial to most audiences.
Why then is the same consideration generally not extended if a white person says, “…I would add: I want White boys to grow up believing whiteness is beautiful.”?
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@ Randy
Because American culture is already pushing that message 24/7. Internalized racism is not an issue for whites.
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Despite how the media is; don’t black people actually have a higher sense of being good looking than white people when they are part of those kind of studies?
Taking in the factor that for black people of both genders, dating out of the race seems to be a “Plan B” kind of thing.
And most black people are in relationships/marriages with other black people; it would seem like “black is beautiful” is already something they would agree with.
Not saying internalized racism doesn’t exist; you can think of yourself as good looking and still have self-hate.
Or to put it this way; just because a white woman thinks of herself as good looking doesn’t mean she can’t have internalized sexism.
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Abagond said:
I’m not so sure that’s the case. The modern media appears to commonly advance the idea that white people are square and uncool. Now, if you changed your statement to: “Internalized racism is not as much of an issue for whites” then that would seem to be more accurate.
More critically, in the broader picture your comment suggests that a particular group does not have an inherent right to value itself. Rather, it’s allowed to value itself only if it meets certain subjective criteria.
This raises questions such as “What is this criteria and who is allowed to set it?”
I believe that many white folks are becoming increasingly aware that such double standards exist, to the overall detriment of race relations.
Imagine if anyone who suggested that “black is beautiful” were nearly universally denounced as being “black supremacist” and then socially and economically ostracized.
Allow me to suggest that you might feel intellectually offended, as you’d understand quite reasonably that simply saying “X is beautiful” doesn’t imply that “X is better than Y” or that “Y is bad”.
Further, you might then conclude that those steering the common culture to denounce you for stating that “black is beautiful” are acting in bad faith, and are not ultimately working towards the common good.
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(pants heavily) We did it. We chased away the sows and heifers. Wasn’t easy. But them swine now know that black men aren’t gonna sit down and let them cut off our balls anymore.
Now, black men who bash black women bashers.
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@ Satanforce
Please do not use animal terms to refer to other commenters. Going forward I will delete all such comments. I will update my comment policy accordingly later today.
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No Problem.
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SatanForce
As an aside, you forgot to add that Sir Seretse Khama was exiled to London for some of his tenure as leader, and that it was actually the presidents Sir Ketumile Masire(the longest serving President of Bots) and Festus Mogae(previously his vice president) that undersaw Botswana to the successful African country that it is today.
When the British left, before diamonds were discovered, Botswana had only 12 km of paved road(that’s how poor it was) and because it had such dubious profitability and not worth compromising relations with South Africa, they deemd it the safer option to exile him to London with his white wife rather than ruffle feathers with White Supremacist South Africa.
I felt uneasy at how you tied his marriage to this white woman with Botswana’s success and airbrush the more significant and major players in getting Botswana to what it is today.
I don’t think this man is to be commended, he is certainly not worthy of such accolades bestowed upon him.
As a Motswana, I feel he should have put his country first! Ok the principle of love trumping all is all good and well, but if your people elected you to take them forth as a president, and he goes off to London to bring home a typist to be our first lady, I say f*@K that jazz they had in common!! I have a penchant for classical and country, but I can be certifiable emo for my people.
Was it worth all the aggro it took to hang onto that woman?
Their son, current President Ian Khama, is a mediocre leader who really benefited from the legacy of the previous two. Some of the adoration for this man reeks of awe and fascination, as if his existance alone is supposed to atone for how his father could have f@**ed it up for Botswana.
The true measure of a man is one who puts the interests of say…oh..a million and a half impoverished people who looked up to him to lead them and not incur the ire of racists next door.
This self serving defiance is what lies at the heart of some of these unions.
Interracial love is like all others, I feel this tendency to get too caught up in its novelty as in this instance, other more pertinent matters are not given their credence. Airbrushing some of his failings as a leader and a man, the contribution of men that wouldn’t rock the boat for a foreigner, and highlighting how great his marriage was to this white woman as if that alone was a founding force of a prosperous Botswana is utterly ludicrous!
Some dudes man.. SMDH!!
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@merrimay
I see you are one of the few who see why I posted those examples…..
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@abagond–“This fight breaks out almost every time white women are brought up”
actually the most abusive comments are those that occur whenever you post an article about black women & the comments mostly come from black men.
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@ MinnieB
“…I would add: I want Black boys to grow up believing blackness is beautiful.”
**********************************************
Hi Comrade! : )
What do YOU mean when you say “blackness?”
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@ Randy:
There is a line between pride in one’s race and racism and that line is at the word imply. Whites cross that line. In part because their pride in being White Americans is false and narcissistic and therefore in need of constant support – they suffer from Fragile White Ego Syndrome. Which is unfortunate for the rest of us given their military and media power.
Racial pride is healthy and necessary for people of colour. The lack of that pride drives most of the dispute on this thread. But a healthy pride is also necessary for whites because the sort of pride they have now – the pride of a bully – winds up hurting everyone.
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I think we share similar perspectives here.
The suppression of healthy and positive racial pride among white folks (and the negative stereotypes of white people put forth by the media) also seems to contribute to the problems described in this thread.
Let me explain.
Popular media has established and endlessly repeated the stereotype that black guys are particularly “suave and cool”, more suave and cool than white guys. Thus, black guys like my former flatmate can simply show up at predominantly white social settings and get attention.
On top of that, these white girls tend not to hold the (perceived) “suave and cool black guy” to the same standards as they’d hold a white guy.
The net result is that you have at least some black guys comparing their experiences with white girls (who cut them unearned slack) to their experiences with black girls (who likely don’t cut them unearned slack), and then expressing negative feelings about black girls.
(Sidenote: both of these effects can also be seen in WM-AF relations, but that’s another topic)
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One of the reasons why black women are perceived as being inferior to white women is because the positive efforts of black women are not highlighted in the media, even by black women themselves
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Link for the above video
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@Sam
I read your comment and it brought back some memories about my blogs which were hacked and malicious information posted on it. The culprits know who they are.
Anyway, the way I see it, if a man or woman truly wants to know the truth about a potential love interest, do you leave it to other people to find out information for you, or do you find out the information for yourself by talking to the person you ae interested in? I think it is pathetic that a man asks people of questionable character to go and find out information about a potential love interest. Pathetic.
Also, how can you claim to know someone you have never met? If you want to know the facts, go to the source and ask directly. The problem with some people these days is that they are just not bold enough to want to know the facts and would rather hear and listen to lies and gossip from people with questionable motives and of questionable character.
Also, if you don’t like a person, does this mean that you should ruin their character and reputation. Some people are just not good people.
Just because people read information on the internet, does this make it factual? If someone uses photoshop to falsify images, does this make them authentic?
There are many jobs to do besides being a stripper, porn star etc. Each to his/her own.
Yes, honesty is important in any relationship. If a man is honest with me, I can trust him. If he goes around to all my friends, acquaintances and enemies to ask questions and does not come to me directly, then I can’t trust that person.
On to paedophiles, personally, I am not interested with going out with anyone who molests children or who is of questionable character with low moral values. Now, there was one person who was going around saying that someone was a paedophile who had abused him, well, it appears that this accuser is also a paedophile and sexual predator, Internet cyberstalker, offline stalker and possible rapist himself. I won’t mention any names. The problem with SOME people who say they were molested is that they go on and molest people too. There is nothing worse than an abused person who then goes on to abuse and take advantage of others while dressing themselves up as a victim.
If you are getting into a relationship with someone, I think it is important to know the facts about that person. How can you know all the facts about someone you have never met or spoken to?
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@Abagond “There is a line between pride in one’s race and racism and that line is at the word imply. Whites cross that line. In part because their pride in being White Americans is false and narcissistic and therefore in need of constant support – they suffer from Fragile White Ego Syndrome. Which is unfortunate for the rest of us given their military and media power.”
I think it is helpful for white people to try and find ethnic pride, such as Irish step dancing, French food, Polka dancing, various ethnic languages other than English, ect.These can be tools to healthy identity for white people who want to shed “whiteness”, which isn’t really a race but a construct.
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@Vanishing Point
The problem is; that those cultures aren’t really a large part of the american experience and they don’t view americans as part of their people regardless of heritage.
Its like all those people down here who celebrate St. Patrick’s day and are proud of being Irish, Irish people don’t see them as Irish, they see them as americans.
Its not like we have much to be proud of culturally from the white culture in the US, I mean, we got what, country music, mcdonalds and line dancing?
And it doesn’t help we have a disposable cultural and are always changing, adapting, dropping, regurgitating old things etc…..you do what you like but is now out of date or not fashionable you lose social cred and become the butt of jokes.
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“One of the reasons why black women are perceived as being inferior to white women is because the positive efforts of black women are not highlighted in the media, even by black women themselves”
———————————————————————————————————————-
I’ve read a few of your posts.
The media is controlled and run mostly by white men, so what are you talking about?
From reading some of your comments, I take it you are black, or maybe I am mistaken, but as a black man, black women’s positive efforts should be highlighted by black men too or maybe that is a job only for black women to do. Kind of pathetic when even SOME of our own black men cannot represent for us black women and SOME black men are dragging us down. Pathetic, weak and shameful.
I say SOME black men, because we still have strong black men representing for us, but the weak ones just need to sit down with their lame, pathetic selves. They are the first ones to go around disrespecting black women and then complain that others are doing it.
Disrespecting a black woman is disrespect to a black man, or maybe nobody ever told you guys. Pathetic.
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@ Peanut
I know how you feel about black-women being disrespected (by SOME black men) on a group level.
But I’m curious about how YOU feel about yourself as a black female INDIVIDUAL.
Have you personally been on the receiving end – aside from any possibly perceived disrespect here – of a black man, or men, “bashing” YOU as an individual black woman?
Did anyone you know personally tell you that they’d rather be with a white woman instead of having a relationship with you?
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Yeah, I guess what I was saying about the paedophiles is that a paedophile is bad and should be locked up, but a PAEDOPHILE ENABLER is just as bad as a paedophile. I mean if you are being paid to kidnap people’s children, then that makes you a paedophile as well. Just saying since SAM brought up the topic of paedophiles.
I think Abagond should make a separate post on that subject.
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@ Peanut
I think you need to find yourself beautiful, although to SOME people that would be classified as narcissism. I often find that the ones who themselves have a problem are the ones who go around finding and looking for faults in other people.
Love yourself first and foremost and then I think you can ooze the self-confidence that people will see and love in you.
I must admit that sometimes I have to take breaks from this blog, because the comments section gets HEAVY.
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@V-4
“Its not like we have much to be proud of culturally from the white culture in the US, I mean, we got what, country music, mcdonalds and line dancing?”
Uhm… what about American movies and rock/metal bands? I’m pretty sure they are quite popular worldwide. 😉
Yeah, I know white people didn’t invent rock, but they made it popular.
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I haven’t READ all of the comments yet, so someone may have already said something similar to the following:
I don’t think the issue is so much that SOME black women are angry at black men for not protecting black women from SOME black men who bash/hate black women at the expense of white women.
I think it goes way deeper than that.
I think some black women hate that black men (as a group, or as individuals) cannot protect or rescue them from the harm, negativity that white supremacy inflicts upon them – and us.
The BEST husbands (regardless of his color) cannot keep and protect his black female partner from the corrosive, weary, debilitating racist/inferior/BS messages that constantly comes at their loved one.
But husbands are SUPPOSED to protect, preserve and save, right?
If anyone has any ideas on how husbands can protect their wives, or how boyfriends can protect their girlfriends from this, I’m listening …
The white doll, black doll test tells more than we generally think about …
If SOME little girls (and boys!) grow up not liking themselves, what are their chances of growing up realistically capable of loving someone that looks like they do?
SELF-HATE is a monster.
And whiteness – is .. yep, you guessed it, DEMONIC.
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“But the point is EVIL RANTS from Black men are not helping people, especially younger Black women than myself to have self-confidence.”
————————————————————————————————————–
@Peanut
You are answering your own questions.
Your self-esteem as a black woman or any other woman for that matter should not depend on the “EVIL RANTS” of SOME self-hating black men. If we all had to listen to their BS we would have all gone under a long time ago.
My self-esteem and self-confidence does not depend on what an ignorant black man or ignorant white man thinks for that matter. I love myself REGARDLESS of what spews forth from ignorant mouths and minds and so should you.
The reason why they spew forth nonsense is because they have issues with self. The sooner you realise that, the better off you will be. Stop worrying about what other people think and worry about what you are going to do or are doing with yourself.
The days when I used to worry about which colour a person dates, gets married to or engages with are behind me. I don’t care what people do with their life. I’ve got to worry about what I do with mine.
I have enough issues with myself that need to be corrected than sit here worrying about what knuckleheads think.
That’s just my take on it.
I’m a pretty laid back individual. Back to YouTube to listen to some JAMS.
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[…] “Black Men, White Women” by Abagond […]
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Peanut: Ignore other people, their views and opinions and attitudes of what is beautiful and what is not. JUST SEARCH YOUR MIND AND INNER SOUL AND LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF. Accept your shortcomings and mistakes, see beyond them, they will only guide you to the right path of self-acceptance and self-love.. Know yourself. It is the most important relationship you will ever have.
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Matari,
I think of it simply as the debilitating long reach of WHITENESS –
It’s beyond insidious!
It’s everywhere … affecting everything … and everyone..
… in one form, or another.
Sexual (im)purity is not just about whiteness and racism. There’s a good deal of sexism in it. The mere idea that sex makes a woman “dirty” is sexist and it’s not just a white thing.
That’s why I said that the belief that white women who are with black men are dirty is both racist and sexist.
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i see bm (satanforce with his momma videos) are doing what they do best: BLAMIING OTHER PEOPLE!!!
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This is getting pretty tense. I can only say this…
I don’t know what to say except that only in a racist and sexist world would issues about interracial relationships become stressful and sometimes violent.
I don’t want to steer off the subject, but this really shows that whiteness is indeed demonic when it causes people – all people to have negative emotions. These emotions can take a toll on one’s physical and psychological well-being. And before anyone says anything, I said whiteness, not white people, although many of them are disciples of their own monstrous god of whiteness.
It takes long and hard efforts to escape the spell, and it may take the rest of your life to be “awaken” more so than you were in the past. And even then, you will still experience anger and sadness the likes you’ve never experienced before, but at least you feel that way with good reason.
It shouldn’t matter whom anyone else date as long as they are genuinely in love and happy. So, why? Why does it pisses me off that I see brothers and sistas holding hands with non-blacks, especially whites? Why does a lot of the negative crap we hear about black men or black women come from other black men and black women? At the same time why do they put white people on fucking pedestals as if they are true examples of morality and civility as if they know how to love us more than we know how to love ourselves? Why?
Because we are all BRAINWASHED to hate our blackness and love whiteness. Because the brainwashing machine is still operating at peak efficiency. Because the efforts to stop the machine are minimal. Because there are those that don’t want it to shut down as long as it brings power, wealth, and happiness to those who don’t truly deserve it.
The issue of whom black people date and why is a byproduct of this machine. Black people can never truly be happy let alone individuals or fully human in this world for one reason or another. This is why I’m angry all the time. This is why I’m miserable all the time. And this is why I won’t give up deprogramming myself no matter how painful it becomes.
*Exhales*
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“The mere idea that sex makes a woman “dirty” is sexist and it’s not just a white thing.”
***********************************
It IS a white (whiteness) thing when a white woman is rendered dirty for being with a black man.
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“Its not like we have much to be proud of culturally from the white culture in the US, I mean, we got what, country music, mcdonalds and line dancing?”
.
well thought out response…
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It IS a white (whiteness) thing when a white woman is rendered dirty for being with a black man.
Yes, but the idea that sex can make a woman dirty is sexist. And while stormfront and other abominations claim the same for white men who date black women, white men aren’t seen as dirty for doing so because of the whole gender dynamics.
Actually, I think black men and white women couples are interesting for this race/gender dynamics. On one hand, white women are white, but they are also women and lack male privilege. And black men are men but they are black so they lack white privilege.
We have members of two groups that have the opposite positions withing two extremely important systems (race and gender). They both have one and lack one.
I hope the actual individuals who are in this type of relationships are not fixated on these questions, but it’s sure interesting from anthropological point of view.
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@ matari
It goes a bit further than that. They base their expectations of black men on the supposed ability, desire and history of white men protecting white women.
I responded to this above:
And some more clowning of Black women haters:
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Apologies all,
I see I posted a song on here that actually was meant for the open thread and had nothing at all to do with the conversation at hand.
Second, and the main issue. You probably think that I don’t like black women too much, especially when I’m trolling Demerara and sepultura
? – I’ve made comments directly to you on other threads but not on here.
Of course I say ridiculous things for my own amusement and people’s reactions
Exactly. I’m pretty sure I recall ‘falling’ for one of your comments on another thread and then saying a couple of posts down that I wasnt sure where you were really coming from.
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“1) More BM date and marry interracially than BW.
2) A minority of BM bash BW and praise non-BW.
3) BW and BM exist in a society that was essentially created on racism (America would NOT exist as a first-world superpower without the unpaid labor and sacrifice of the “lower IQ-d” negroes.
4) This racism permeates the way out society operates at both a micro and macro level, in ways that are blatant, subtle, and invisible; conscious, sub-conscious, and unconscious; but almost always in ways that we routinely deny or refuse to confront.
5) This creates a unique situation for BW, who are both victims of misogyny by BM and racism by WM and WW i.e. intersectionality.
6) Contrary to WM, BM do not on a MACRO SCALE come to the support and defense of BW.
7) Point 6, coupled with points 1 and 2, = justification for BW to hold personal opinions about BM/non-BW pairings.
8) You routinely and completely deny any rationale for BW to care or have negative feelings towards BM/non-BW relationships, despite points 1 and 2 being 100% provably true, and point 6? Your anecdotal evidence of BM who defend BW can be far outmatched by the anecdotal evidence I can find of the reverse, I’m sure.”
@Suzy
1) True-and as I said before this is something that BW need to take up with WM. Or put another way evidently more WW find BM attractive than BW find WM attractive. Interesting, that.
2) True for any group so totally irrelevant.
3) There were other reasons but not worth debating here.
4) Not true-some people do not deny and do confront. You can’t make that claim about everyone. You can’t make the claim , implicit here, that racism alone determines who we find attractive. There are a multitude of factors. There are racists who date and marry interracially. There are non-racists that would never date/marry interracially because they simply aren’t attracted to others in that way. People are complex.
5) Again, also true of any other group. BM are victims of racism from whites and misandry from BW. Oh the humanity!!!.
6) False-as has been shown by other commenters. I notice that you have also not commented on the unique media access given to some black women to complain about/bash black men and whine incessantly about essentially personal romantic issues.
7) WHOA. Wrong. There is no justification for bigotry or worrying about who someone else is sleeping with. That’s a conclusion which is not justified by any of your premises. BW do not get a pass from the expectation that every human being on this planet gets to decide for himself/herself who they find attractive and act accordingly. You can’t allow bigotry for one group of people and deny it for others. You can’t allow freedom for one group of people and deny it for others. Some WM hate BM/WW relationships for many of the same fallacious reasons that you do.
8) No I routinely deny any rationale for any human being to spend his or her time worrying about who another human being (who is not with them) is sleeping with or dating. This IS an ideal; many of us have bigotries and insecurities. But to let these dominate us or turn them into public policy debates as some have done here is pathetic.
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@brothawolf
No point in being angry all the time….Angry sometimes, I understand, but angry all the time is destructive, it really is.
But yeah, I see what you are saying. These topics bring out the emotions in people, understandably so.
LOL @ brainwashing machine. I have no doubt that there is one.
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The Black Man always has an excuse for the dirt that he does. All this white supremacy this and white supremacy that. The white man is not making the Black man bash their own Black Women to White folks. He is doing that on his own. And did I read on here that a Black man blamed his own mother for the bad way he treated women? Cuz the mother was not affectionate? Not that she abused him or neglacted him but wasnt affectionate (but all while feeding him and taking care of him). ONLY A BLACK MAN WOULD BLAME HIS OWN MOTHER FOR HIS MISTREATING OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
BV
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@brothawolf:
“The issue of whom black people date and why is a byproduct of this machine. Black people can never truly be happy let alone individuals or fully human in this world for one reason or another. This is why I’m angry all the time. This is why I’m miserable all the time. And this is why I won’t give up deprogramming myself no matter how painful it becomes.”
This is why we must work against the System and its systematic racism. One day it will be done, but perhaps not in our life time, but we, I must work to demolish it in my head and in my mind, in this world. Perhaps my effort is just a tiny pitiful push, nothing more than a small scratch, but when enough small people push, it begins the shake the very foundations of the System.
Bit by bit, chip by chip, the System wears out. Sure, it still seems to be unmovable and all mighty, but so have many others in the past. Sure, the System can still strike back and unleash its hounds, use the propaganda and more subtle ways, but when people spread the word, ask the questions, tell the truth it becomes harder and harder for the System to maintain its control.
I belive that one day black people, all people can be happy and fully human, but it takes time. None of us asked to be born today to this world at this time and age but neither did those who fought against slavery, racism and unequality in the past. Those men and women in the past decided to change the world, some more overtly, some by all means at their disposal, but many many in their own lives.
We know the leaders, the heroic men and women who fought the System and risked their lives for it, BUT we do know that there were thousands and thousands nameless people, small people who did it in their lives. Perhaps there was a bussdriver who did let blacks to sit anywhere in his buss, perhaps there was a black lady who went to shop in a store previously preserved for whites only. Perhaps there was a guy who went to sit to a seat preserved only for whites, perhaps there was a woman who decided to serve black customers at diner. Perhaps there were guys at the factory who said: “This is bullshit” and realised that they were all workers, regardless of their skin color.
We know they were there, everyday, on the streets and working places, those un sung heroes who broke trough the race barrier and decided that in their own lives at least they won’t separate people by the color, they won’t obey race lines, barriers, customs, habits, rules, social convetions, and it is because of those people, ordinary people with ordinary lives, we are here today, discussin about these things TOGETHER.
True, there is a lot to do, we still have a long way, but we get there. Perhaps are grand kids get there, or their grand kids! One day we will be there. All we can do and all we must do in our life time is to stand up against racism, sexism and unequality every day, in those small supposedly insignificant things and moments.
Why not sit next to fellow man in a bar or bus or subway no matter what the color of that man? Why not help the black mother who is struggling with her grocery bags and kids? Small things but they are all signals. They are signs. Ten people see those things around us. They tell about them to another ten, twenty people: “Hey, guess what I saw? I saw these black dudes helping this white woman today”, “I saw this white guy give her seat to this black woman” etc. They are signs that the System is not in control, that the System is not almighty and most of all: They are signs which shot loud and clear that WE ARE THE PEOPLE. Not the System.
Sorry about the preaching again. I just got carried away.
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@S-Force
“Black men are supposed to be able to protect black women, as if they have same level of power, and ability to bend the law as white men can, when white men don’t even protect their own women.
Where exactly are these examples of white men defending their women’s dignity?”
**********************************
In the MINDS of some people.
It’s an abstract that’s embedded/culled in SOME of the current culture that seeks to understand or justify why one group IS more valued, cherished and seemingly desired more than the OTHER group.
WM – DON’T NEED TO – defend WW’s honor/maidenhood from systemic horrors/acts of racism – because no such system exists.
WW are not held in low regard/esteem on a systemic, wide global scale.
@ Brothawolf
Hang in there Brotha! Take some time-outs as needed. We all need healthy breaks/diversions from excruciating reality every now and then.
STRESS will exact a toll on our bodies if we don’t find things/people that help us to laugh, smile and feel invigorated/recharged. Laughter was a key component in our ancestors’ ability to survive this nonsense.
Do/find what works for you that negates your stress levels.
We need you and your strong voice to remain strong in the struggle, but not at the expense of your wellness.
: )
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“Peanut
with wm/bw black women have two strikes (being both female and black) white men have two privileges (white/male) one is in the least powerful group, the other the most powerful group…”
*********************************
…and yet when wm/bw marry, they have one of the lowest divorce rates??
Hmmmm … I could see how this would BE interesting, from an anthropological point of view… of course.
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On top of the internalized racism, and the white women stereotypes, don’t forget that white women can be gold diggers just as good as the rest of the other gold diggers out there, so when they see that red convertible BMW or Benz, and that gold Rolex, they will be setting their target on Black/White/Red/Yellow…whoever that poor dude happens to be, to get their golden ticket to a life of luxury.
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That’s probably why the following is true,
“But for black women with a university degree, the loss of black men with the same or better education to white women is considerable and not imagined.”
The educated Black men will be the ones driving the Benz or wearing the Rolexes.
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WM are not attracted to BW. It’s hilarious to hear BW say WM are “too intimidated to approach them” or some such nonsense. There is simply no interest. I know the commenters here love to imagine WM desperately trying to get with BW and not succeeding, like BW are the ones making the choice.
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@Matari
“WW are not held in low regard/esteem on a systemic, wide global scale.”
Huh? Do you understand what sexism is? Double standards based on gender? Income inequality? Gender roles? Rape culture? Being perceived as less intelligent and more emotional? Being judged by the way you look not based on what you have accomplished?
That’s not systematic and global?
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SHONDA,
ONLY A BLACK MAN WOULD BLAME HIS OWN MOTHER FOR HIS MISTREATING OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
Sorry, but this just isn’t true. White people blame their parents all the time for this. “Yes, I treat women like crap, but that’s because my mother didn’t treat me well”.
The only difference is that in the case of whites, people are often willing to give them a pass for this – hey, he had a bad childhood, give him a break, ok? While in the case of black men (or black people in general) this isn’t seen as a valid excuse.
Matari,
…and yet when wm/bw marry, they have one of the lowest divorce rates??
Hmmmm … I could see how this would BE interesting, from an anthropological point of view… of course.
Yes, this is interesting. I have my ideas why this might be the case, but Abagond said black women are off topic for this thread.
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Eco,
Are YOU a white woman?
——
What I thought I was expressing, but obviously not very clearly to some, is that WW aren’t, I repeat – are NOT – systemically discriminated against on the basis of race. Go back and reread the sentence BEFORE the one you quoted as it may assist in seeing the quoted sentence in context.
http://racetraitor.org/abolish.html
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@Matari
“WM – DON’T NEED TO – defend WW’s honor/maidenhood from systemic horrors/acts of racism – because no such system exists.
WW are not held in low regard/esteem on a systemic, wide global scale.”
You wrote that as a reply to:
“Black men are supposed to be able to protect black women, as if they have same level of power, and ability to bend the law as white men can, when white men don’t even protect their own women.
Where exactly are these examples of white men defending their women’s dignity?”
Your argument, that white women do not need to be protected because they are not negatively affected by racism doesn’t make sense. There is a similar system they DO need to be protected from and it’s called sexism.
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“Your argument, that white women do not need to be protected because they are not negatively affected by racism doesn’t make sense.”
********************************
Actually, I’m NOT arguing.. especially not with you.
It doesn’t make sense to Eco, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Are YOU a white woman?
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“It doesn’t make sense to Eco, but it makes perfect sense to me.”
Can’t say I’m surprised…
I know you do not really see the point in defining what a word means, but I do think you should know that “argument” can also mean: “a set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others”.
“Are YOU a white woman?”
No, I’m a white man.
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“No, I’m a white man.”
***********************
Okay. Thank you.
As a white man have you ever wanted to, or rather – have you ever felt a need to protect your WHITE wife, mother, sister, daughter, niece, girlfriend or grand-daughter from the non-stop raging, ravaging, ruinous effects of systemic racism?
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@eco
you’re right that white women have to function under a sexist system. as do all women–including black women. and as minority women black women must also function under a racist system. adding for clarity.
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@Matari
Define “racism”. Is it the only thing black women need to be protected from?
@temple
I agree with every word.
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@Dr. Grzlickson
WM are not attracted to BW. It’s hilarious to hear BW say WM are “too intimidated to approach them” or some such nonsense. There is simply no interest. I know the commenters here love to imagine WM desperately trying to get with BW and not succeeding, like BW are the ones making the choice.
LOL the post is about WW and BM yet you come on here discussing BW and WM and acting as though its so abhorent to you yet I KNOW that this is not the first time you have commented on this subject such is your obsession and preoccupation with this topic.
This is all encompassing to you, I can assure you, for most BW they are not bothered what the hell you think or want. I suspect that most women generally dont care for your opinion either, regardless of race so we have you coming on here making your embittered observations as the females that you really want to notice you, are not. Stop taking your rage out on BW – for every frightened WM like you, there are strong decent men just around the corner.
BTW, ask around even on this blog, which is a teeny tiny example of worldwide opinion and you will find more than one commenter who refutes your generalisation of all WM. Keep telling yourself that WW like you dont want BW and one day, you might just believe it.
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^
Should read:-
Keep telling yourself that WM like you dont want BW and one day, you might just believe it
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SHONDA says,
The Black Man always has an excuse for the dirt that he does. All this white supremacy this and white supremacy that. The white man is not making the Black man bash their own Black Women to White folks. He is doing that on his own. And did I read on here that a Black man blamed his own mother for the bad way he treated women? Cuz the mother was not affectionate? Not that she abused him or neglacted him but wasnt affectionate (but all while feeding him and taking care of him). ONLY A BLACK MAN WOULD BLAME HIS OWN MOTHER FOR HIS MISTREATING OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
laromana says,
Shonda,
I strongly agree with your EXCELLENT comments.
ANTI- BW BM are the ONLY men who PUBLICLY trash the humanity, dignity, and femininity of their SAME RACE women and ACCEPT/CONDONE ANTI-BW HATE from others.
Obviously, this DISGUSTING/DESPICABLE ANTI- BW mistreatment from ANTI- BW BM isn’t the “SAME” as when a NON-BP “blames” their parents for shortcomings in their lives.
Matari says,
In the MINDS of some people.
It’s an abstract that’s embedded/culled in SOME of the current culture that seeks to understand or justify why one group IS more valued, cherished and seemingly desired more than the OTHER group.
WM – DON’T NEED TO – defend WW’s honor/maidenhood from systemic horrors/acts of racism – because no such system exists.
WW are not held in low regard/esteem on a systemic, wide global scale.
Eco,
Are YOU a white woman?
——
What I thought I was expressing, but obviously not very clearly to some, is that WW aren’t, I repeat – are NOT – systemically discriminated against on the basis of race. Go back and reread the sentence BEFORE the one you quoted as it may assist in seeing the quoted sentence in context.
laromana says,
Matari,
Your EXCELLENT comments about the SINGULAR experience of ANTI-BW HATE that ALL BW face/have HISTORICALLY faced in America, are CLEAR/EASY to UNDERSTAND.
I find it ENFURIATING when INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST ANTI-BW HATERS seek to MINIMIZE/DISMISS the UNIQUE RACISM/SEXISM that ONLY BW are/have been HISTORICALLY subjected to and PRETEND that it’s the “SAME” as a WP’S experience (even though White privilege ensures that NO WP is mistreated the SAME way BW are/have HISTORICALLY been mistreated).
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The Black Man always has an excuse for the dirt that he does.
Yes he does. That might explain the bacon strips stains in his underwear. The white man however, is the filthiest! He has both bacon stains and urine stains in his underwear. The asian man is up their with them as they belch constantly and leave the toilet seat up! The ‘latinos’ are nastier as they belch and fart! It is debatable however who is the filthiest out of the lot ;depending on what a women considers the most gross types of behaviour will influence the order of who is the worst!
All this white supremacy this and white supremacy that.
Oh no, they are self-annihilators and self-sexualizers as per Thordaddy. You can add yourself to that list!
The white man is not making the Black man bash their own Black Women to White folks. He is doing that on his own.
Who initially taught him to bash the black woman?
ONLY A BLACK MAN WOULD BLAME HIS OWN MOTHER FOR HIS MISTREATING OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
I beg to differ. Look at Ted Bundy and all the rest of the white serial killers. They all blame their mothers! They have KILLED, hundreds if not thousands of people combined.
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Are YOU a white woman?
I think ‘she’ is. If she isn’t, ‘she’ should be so she can employ ‘white women’s tears’ to get ‘her’ points across.
No, I’m a white man.
You can still use the ‘white woman tears’!
Matari doesn’t have to do anything. ‘White woman tears do not work on him even though you are a ‘white man’.
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white people blame their parents when their parents are abusive or neglect them. The poster said his mother was NOT AFFECTIONATE.
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If white women need to be protected from sexism then I wonder WHO they actually need to be protected from. Black men aren’t responsible for the social marginalization, neither are men from any other minority group. Do tell.
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Dr. Grzlickson says,
WM are not attracted to BW. It’s hilarious to hear BW say WM are “too intimidated to approach them” or some such nonsense. There is simply no interest. I know the commenters here love to imagine WM desperately trying to get with BW and not succeeding, like BW are the ones making the choice.
Demerera says,
Should read:-
Keep telling yourself that WM like you dont want BW and one day, you might just believe it
laromana says,
EXCELLENT response, Demerera.
ALL American men have been BRAINWASHED to “NOT be attracted”/or EVEN be able to ADMIT when they’re attracted to BW (but they’re “MAGICALLY” attracted to ALL NON-BW).
Dr. G.’s comments are a not so “hilarious” example of this ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING “nonsense” in action.
Fortunately, not ALL American men have CHOSEN to give in to ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING.
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WM are not attracted to BW. It’s hilarious to hear BW say WM are “too intimidated to approach them” or some such nonsense. There is simply no interest. I know the commenters here love to imagine WM desperately trying to get with BW and not succeeding, like BW are the ones making the choice.
First of all, lets get the greetings out of the way. Where have you been Dr. Grzlickson, on vacation? If so, I hope you had a good time! Refreshed? As usual you are your curmudgeonly self! Good to see somethings never change! I like consistency. Now, onto your remarks!
Firstly, who gives a sheet what you or your ilk like. Perhaps women like ‘Shonda’ do. I agree with you when you say it is hilarious that bw complain about white men not approaching them. You know why? If a real man likes you, he will throw caution to the wind and approach you regardless of racial, cultural, ethnic characteristics a woman may have. That’s not to say you will entertain his requests. Men are individuals who will do what they have to do to get a leg over! Those that are bogged down with racist, or other ideological views ain’t getting that much. Women who have desperation stamped on their foreheads tend to scare even the horniest man off. So it is six of one and half a dozen of the others!
Now that we know your views on bw and wm, what are your views on bm and ww? After all, this is what the post is actually about.
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Who initially taught him to bash the black woman?
I guess the answer is the white man huh? black men are just brainless tools of the white man that cant make not one single discision. u are a sick peice of work. i dont blame the white man for the CHOICES black men make on their own. black men may not control alot of things but they do control what comes out of their mouths.
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and by the way, most serial killers blame PORN and not their families.
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Firstly, who gives a sheet what you or your ilk like. Perhaps women like ‘Shonda’ do
DO NOT USE MY NAME IN ANY OF YOUR POST!!!
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I guess the answer is the white man huh?
No actually, it’s Cthulu!
black men are just brainless tools of the white man that cant make not one single discision
Most men can’t dear, that’s the point, they are ALL brainless tolls. It isn’t racial!
u are a sick peice of work
I try my best!!
i dont blame the white man for the CHOICES black men make on their own.
Maybe you should, it will make you feel better. Perhaps a white man like Dr. Grizlickson may ask you for a date! You can sit around over dinner complaining about and denigrating black men!
black men may not control a lot of things but they do control what comes out of their mouths.
Show me a man who can control his mouth who is not a politician. It is apparent you have not been around many men in general in any meaningful way. If you were, you would not have these maniacal viewpoints in regards to black men. You and others of your ilk (sgt willie peaks in drag), have a hate on for black men . But you are their female versions. You are in essence two peas in a pod. As others have written here, look to yourself, stop listening and worrying about what others say or do. You will notice a great improvement in your life. If black men are such dastardly dogs, you should put them out of your mind and breath a sigh of relief that you don’t have to deal with them anymore.
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SHONDA / ANGEL / ciara / ashante / jasmine / stacy / Lenny
is hereby banned for using sock puppets.
They were all the same person.
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@laramona
Dr. G.’s comments are a not so “hilarious” example of this ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING “nonsense” in action.
I know, methinks the fella doth protest too much. LOL
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@WarrenAZ
Women should be protected from sexist men. Since some men from minority groups uphold sexist beliefs and benefit from male privilege they are a part of the problem. White men have more power, sure, but that doesn’t mean they have all the power.
@Herneith
Are you about to make a point or do you simply enjoy being incoherent?
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“what makes you think Black women want white men? Most Black women (in my experience) DON’T want white men…”
Well, certainly not the ones that wear dresses or molest children or the ones that stalk across the Internet or offline.
It’s getting hot in here once again.
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Are you about to make a point or do you simply enjoy being incoherent?
I enjoy being incoherent when responding to incoherent posts which have nothing to do with the post at hand which is….. black men and white women, not sexism. Sexism is a topic in and of itself. But being a white man you enjoy diverting the topics at hand if they don’t include whites being beleaguered in some way shape or fashion. The old ‘But that happens to me to!’ dictum.
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@Herneith
How is racism part of this topic, if sexism isn’t? Both “-isms” obviously affect BM-WW relationships. I’m not “diverting the topics” by talking about white women and how sexism affects them and their relationships.
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“I enjoy being incoherent when responding to incoherent posts which have nothing to do with the post at hand which is….. black men and white women, not sexism. Sexism is a topic in and of itself. But being a white man you enjoy diverting the topics at hand if they don’t include whites being beleaguered in some way shape or fashion. The old ‘But that happens to me to!’ dictum.”
********************************
Exactly.. Thank you, Herneith
Eco – how come you’re the only one up in here that’s not seeing that the topic at hand is a RACE based discussion, and not one that is focused on sexism?
Perhaps you need to take another glimpse at Abagond’s post at the top of this thread?
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@demerara
I’m sorry. I’ve just been extremely defensive.
Though I am not surprised, I’m still pleased that it is just ONE person, and not many.
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@Satanforce
@demerara
I’m sorry. I’ve just been extremely defensive.
I must confess to being confused. What is it that I have said that has made you feel that way? I dont prophes to being an ‘angel’ by any means but I havent challenged you directly on this particular thread…
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@Matari
Count the comments that mention the idea that women need to be protected or supported by men, that the men of their race are mistreating them. Sexism may not be explicitly mentioned in these comments, but whenever you are discussing male privilege, gender roles, gender inequality and gender specific stereotypes (Sapphire, Jezebel, white women are easier to get along with, etc.) sexism IS a factor.
It seems that whenever something hurts black people you see it simply as “racism”/”whiteness”, but people who actually understand the meanings of the words they are using should be able to notice the situation is more complex.
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It seems that whenever something hurts black people you see it simply as “racism”/”whiteness”, but people who actually understand the meanings of the words they are using should be able to notice the situation is more complex.
Of course the situation is more complex and many do see that. However, and I reiterate, this is about racist perceptions, and what propels this particular combination to enter these relationships. What are the societal and personal ramifications, what are the dynamics. The sexism aspects should be apparent to all or most, but again this is a post that focuses on the racial aspects of these relationships. That is how you are diverting the discussion.
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“SHONDA / ANGEL / ciara / ashante / jasmine / stacy / Lenny
is hereby banned for using sock puppets.
They were all the same person.”
I told you this post will bring out some deluded and bitter BWE’s (including jorbia and Laromana) and the white supremacists, seperatist etc.
Seriously these guys and girls need to get a life.
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SHONDA replied
I LOLed.
Yup. She kills it again.
@ laromana et al.
I do not blame anyone. Anyone can see that Bill Bellamy’s character is a neurotic who needs to resolve those issues like a grown man should. Nor am I trying to start some chicken-and-egg, “my pain is greater than yours” argument.
What I am saying is, single black mothers, in raising their sons, tend focus more on the physical and material well being of their sons, at the expense of their emotional and psychological well-being. This, is at times, compounded by verbal and emotional abuse, based on the mother’s feelings about her babyfathers.
What is necessary is an examination at this time, of black motherhood, if you want to understand why dysfunctional black men want to be with white women (a more appropriate title for this post.)
One solution, as to what type of sacrifices should be made, would be to observe a different type of relationship between a white woman and a black man – that of Ann Dunham and her son, Barack Obama. I f anyone can suggest a similar one of a single black mother and her son, please add it also.
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@ vindicator
Nah.. I think laromana is cool. Jorbia on the other hand….
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Okay. I recognize SHONDA, ANGEL, and ashante, but those other names are unfamiliar. Whoever this person is or was had serious issues as do all trolls.
I thought “ashante” was starting to learn a little something. At first I thought she/he was a troll, but then she/he started to be more open. Looks like the troll tribunal is in full operation.
Sam, Matari, and Happiness,
Thanks for your responses.
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-Eco
“It seems that whenever something hurts black people you see it simply as “racism”/”whiteness”,..”
******************************
I try to write as simple/concise as possible. I notice that SOME readers/posters have a tendency to see things that weren’t written, and not see things that were written.
And yes, I DO believe that whiteness/white supremacy is near, or at, the root of *much* of what’s wrong in America, and *much* of the world.
(Of course this doesn’t mean that only white people are bad and everyone else is especially wonderful,)
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Matari,
Sexism is rarely discussed on this blog, in part, I believe, because Abagond himself is sexist (this isn’t me accusing him, he admitted it himself). So obviously he won’t write posts from a POV of someone who challenges sexism.
Personally, I believe the ill-treatment of black women in society isn’t only about them being black, but also about them being women, but for some reason this subject is rarely talked about around here.
Also, I believe the bad way some black men treat black women (including, but not limited, to those who date white women exclusively) is in part about sexism and not just racism*. To deny it is sexist on itself, and men who do it are displaying the signs of their own male privilege.
*- That being said, I don’t think black men are more sexist than the whites.
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@ Mira
‘Matari,
Sexism is rarely discussed on this blog, in part,”
***********************
What about on the open thread??
Can’t you discuss it there?
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You can discuss it, but that’s not the point. The point is, blog posts are rarely, if ever, about sexism and visitors don’t seem to be interested in discussing it (even on threads where that is on topic, such as this one, or any of the “most gorgeous women” posts – though those posts do have visitors talking about it).
And no, I don’t have a special need to talk about it. It’s not really something I think about that often and, strangely enough, it’ snot something that particularly affects me (or maybe I don’t see it). I just think it’s not off topic on certain threads, such as this one. It doesn’t mean we have to talk about it, but I’m confused why people think it’s irrelevant for the discussion.
(Oh, in case I wasn’t clear, I’m mainly talking about sexism against black women and not the white ones).
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“The point is, blog posts are rarely, if ever, about sexism and visitors don’t seem to be interested in discussing it ..”
****************************
Are you really talking about sexism, or feminism – or both?
“but I’m confused why people think it’s irrelevant for the discussion. ”
I could be incorrect, but I suspect THAT discussion, at best, is murky, super-complicated, rife with unapparent sink-holes and land-mines full of kryptonite radiation waiting to devastate any unwise fool navigating those unexposed terrors without a definitive and indestructible map!
In other words, discerning folks know where not to go.
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vindicator says,
I told you this post will bring out some deluded and bitter BWE’s (including jorbia and Laromana) and the white supremacists, seperatist etc.
laromana says,
Hey v.,
Learn to READ,take your own DELUSIONAL/IDIOTIC/UNSOLICITED “advice” and shove it.
YOU DON’T KNOW ME SO STOP MISREPRESENTING WHAT I’ve SAID.
If you’re an ANTI-BW HATER BM and don’t like my views on these types of POS’s, that’s on YOU, but I/ANY BW who feels like me, have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE/DEFEND OURSELVES AGAINST ANY ANTI-BW HATERS including ANTI-BW HATER BM.
GET OVER YOURSELF!
S-force,
BW have not only SUCCESSFULLY raised MANY BM/BW, at GREAT SACRAFICE to themselves, but they’ve also helped to effectively raise MANY WP’S/NON-BP’S children.
Why don’t you examine the MANY MISSING ANTI-BW BM who FOR YEARS have CHOSEN to ABANDON BW/THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES to FATHER THEIR children and FORCED them to raise these children as SINGLE mothers, BEFORE you dare BLAME BW for BM’s “dysfunction” (ie.CHOOSING to REJECT BW(because they’re BLACK)/ONLY dating/marrying WW/OTHER NON-BW (because they HATE BW/these women are NOT BLACK).
Also,DmbA, why don’t you ask yourself why WM who are raised by dysfunctional WW don’t CHOOSE to REJECT WW(because they’re WHITE)/ONLY date/marry BW/OTHER NON-WW (because they HATE WW/these women are NOT WHITE).
ANTI-BW BM are SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for their ANTI-BW HATE and need to learn that they OWE BW THEIR LIVES/ALL DUE RESPECT.
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@Peanut
What you all offered was not support, just nice things to do. There are women who aren’t black doing the same things (providing an accurate historical account, speaking up against stereotypes of black men and legal abuse). When you look at the issues that are unique to black men there is no support you can offer. They need more than the collective of black women can give and its their responsibility and right to create solutions without black women interfering. How you and other black women feel about being left out of the loop shouldn’t be a priority right now. They’ll have a hard enough time getting each other on the same page as it is. In a way your position is intrusive. I’m not saying this to be mean but your concern for the future of black men should be limited to the black men in your life. You aren’t a true martyr for cause anyway so again, why assume the position? Let black men be men and don’t meddle in their affairs. I think this might be the hardest lesson for black women who feel they way you do to learn. You’re too worried about what they have to say instead of what they have to do and they can’t and get anything done while trying to make us feel good about being black women and “uplifting” us.
@Eco
White women are not disadvantaged by male privilege from minorities men anymore than they are racism from minority women. You want (maybe even demand) these less prominent groups of men to help shoulder a burden they didn’t create for white women and that in itself is white privilege.
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@Mira
I look forward to your perspectives on that subject. I’ll admit its something I haven’t given a lot of thought to.
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This thread and posting has been very tough to get through due to its length and my ancient PC, but I have finally made it to the end and given everything I have read some real thought.
I find myself agreeing with seemingly opposing views on the matter and have to conclude that that is due to my own upbringing. I was raised to think critically; one of the quotes I remember most from my dad is “There is a brain in your head for a reason, son. Use it!” and another one is “Think about how what you will say and do will affect others!” I have done my best and sometimes failed in trying to keep both of those in mind but, I do keep trying and learning.
One view is that some BM/WW couples actively direct hateful remarks and stereotypes on BW, and mostly for reasons that are not very well thought out. There has to be a slight few who have had horrible experiences covering all their past(s) and it is very hard to get over that and see that not all BW are like the ones those experiences came from. Still, they should be intelligent enough to make that distinction and I cannot respect them for making such a general statement about BW.
I have an ex-wife, long story there, but in summary she lied to me about loving me, crashed my credit through the basement, and refused to see that she did anything wrong. We were a WM/BW marriage. I mention this (the story I mean) only because it is a personal example of how a past experience can affect how you see someone or some group of people. It took me some time to get past that, but I have done it. That is why I have no respect for the anti-BW statements these BM/WW couples make, or the individuals themselves for that matter.
Peanut is the one poster that sticks out in memory the most for the sense the posts made to me, not to say there was nobody else that had valid points. I saw some anger there and some resentment, but considering the topic it wasn’t entirely unexpected. The fact that not many do it is a valid point, but I have to agree with her that, since not very many that are not BW do not stand up for them, it is damaging to hear (or read) and can easily cause emotional trauma. It also isn’t too much to ask to be respected for the good that you have done, I know I want to be, so why would I try to take that away from anyone else?
The other view is that, with the small numbers of BM that actually do date WW exclusively and the larger percentage that does not, why is this an issue? I can kind of understand this as well. Some parents do a bad job raising their kids, and not always because they want to be a bad parent. Some people have had so many bad experiences it has pushed them to where they are now. And there are some who are just happy looking for attention and saying or doing things that they know will cause trouble. I tend to see people as individuals and treat them as such. I also have a really hard time taking to heart an opinion that comes from someone I do not respect, and lets face it, not everyone deserves to be respected and/ or admired. Hell, I have a biological uncle that I do not even claim a relationship to because of the type of man, immature-childish-fool actually, he is. So, I can agree that BW should not even let these fools have any affect on them whatsoever.
I wish I could remember who posted the “chip away at the System” and I wish I had a better PC so I could scroll back and look without it taking another hour but, I totally agreed with that. It does take time to get ‘The System’ to change but it can and does happen with enough effort. That being said, I am more than willing to acknowledge the BW for what she deals with on this topic and hopefully more will join me in this when they have had a chance to reflect on this thread and consider everything.
When all things are considered, I sympathize and wish you well and will support you as best I can. I also strongly believe you should consider whether or not the source of these comments is actually worthy of your attention, most of those sources seem to be inane fools to me.
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@demerara
I meant on the blog in general, not this particular post.
@vindicator
Yeah ! Laromana’s right!! Black women can do no wrong!!! Its these damnblack men breeding these women and abandoning these babies!!!
[youtube-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liXtp6lcpBg]
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@Peanut
I can’t tell who you’re patronizing at this point, me or the black men you know will be reading our exchange but either way its inconsistent. You’re taking a cold-dead-hand approach to a very vague and inaccurate idea of support as if someone is trying to pry you away from black men as a whole and that isn’t what’s happening here. All black men are not your concern, they have women in their own lives so again you’re bring intrusive in more ways than one. Other groups of women don’t support the collective of men in that group, just the men in their families and that kind of support is intimate and personal (familial and/or romantic). That is actual support based on the definition of masculinity their culture has shaped for them. Now if only black women could just back off and let black men do the same. They know the kind of society they live in and what their issues are so let them figure out the best course of action. Either you don’t think their capable or you need the distraction from the issues black women have.
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@Peanut
Change nothing and nothing will change.
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“Research by Boston College social psychologist Rebekah Levine Coley found that
– black fathers not living at home are more likely to keep in contact with their children than fathers of any other ethnic or racial group.
Coley offers a more complex view of the causes of absenteeism among black fathers: the failure to live up to expectations to provide for their families–owing to stunted economic and educational opportunities–drives poor black men into despair and away from their families. Such findings undermine the arguments about black fathers’ inherent pathology or moral lassitude.
These men need jobs, not jabs.”
********************************
Thank you S-Force!
This is (or will be) a classic example of: NOT SEEING something that’s clearly shown.
Some folks, undoubtedly, will read the above quote, but it won’t register, won’t leave an imprint and won’t change their erroneous point of view. Instead they’ll see (or make up/believe) something that wasn’t said…
{{ Note to self: Never underestimate the power of stupid people – in large groups, with an agenda! smh}}
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@Tyrone
“Blackmen think they’re doing it big so to speak, Wrong! The joke is on us as blackmen. As far as whitewomen supposedly being the most attractive, that’s bulls**t too. How many real whitewomen do we see in white media? Blonde, blue-eyed, pale skin, thin. I’ve seen my fair share of real whitewomen, and they’re not as fine as they think they are, Real Talk! Again, white folks are very clever. They’ve replaced whitewomen in media with a bunch of mixed whitewomen who owe their beauty to blackwomen. So, how can they say that they’re superior to blackwomen, when blackwomen made them what they are? I stress this point a lot because a lot of us don’t pay attention to what we see in white media. ”
I have to agree with Tyrone on this one to some extent. The idea that blonde, blue-eyed white women are the pinnacle of beauty was much much more prevalent in the ’50s and ’60s (e.g. Marilyn Monroe) than it is today. Tastes in beauty have since trended to the more exotic look (i.e. tan skin, dark hair).
And “mixed whitewomen” may be a fairly accurate description of these ladies. It seems that the likes of Mariah Carey and Jennifer Beals have been perceived as “white” in some sense for a long time. The younger commenters may not be aware of this, but in the 1990s long after Mariah’s mixed ancestry became publicy known she was still paired with very white love interests in her music videos. That’s a strong indication that she’s not regarded as a member of any black endogamous caste.
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I remember Mariah being criticized by a few whites in the media when she started collaborating a lot more with black male artists. Sandra Berhard was one of her main critics, stating once that Mariah lowered herself by hanging out with black men. I remember thinking that Bernhard was in essence saying Mariah had been tainted. I think Mariah’s multi-ethnic appearance paired with the cross-over appeal of her music back in the 90s, caused many to think of her as not being black. Her appearances in films such as “Precious” and her marriage to Nick Cannon have caused more people to think of her as black, IMO.
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Peanut
I went to that link.
This person doesn’t have any issues with black-women, and HAS even dated some … he just relates to, finds he has more in common with and prefers white-women.
Nor is he bashing BW. (Maybe I missed something?)
I’m not seeing that he’s brainwashed. He’s simply exercising his freedom to choose What I do see is because we live in a RACIST society, why/how some folks on both sides of the fence would take offense/exception regarding his preference.
Would you call a WM who prefers dating/marrying BW, brainwashed?
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@ Peanut
Don’t all men use women for sex?
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I personally think the preference comes from brainwashing. I don’t have a problem with black men dating white women because I’m a black woman who also dates non-black men.
When I was a little girl, I lived in an area where there were lots of people of different ethnic backgrounds. ALL of my little elementary “boyfriends” were black, and I don’t even remember considering ANY white ones. I liked black boys I saw on TV, and occasionally liked some of the white ones.
Eventually moved to an almost all white area, literally about 1 % black. It’s true that people become more appealing when you’re around them. At the same time, you are fully aware that many of them (in rural Texas at least) have been told not to even bring you home as even a friend. I have 2 brothers and a sister, and when we were kids we were talking about our future kids, and one of my brothers said that he was afraid if he married a white person that the kids wouldn’t come out black looking. We’re already pretty mixed, and our biracial cousins don’t look like black people even to us, and our definition of black includes Mariah Carey.
I think nowadays (I’m 28), I don’t really care who I marry race-wise, and my siblings are the same. When I saw that Kola Boof video where she was talking about making the children who look like slave masters it reminded me of that conversation we had as little kids lol!
I can’t be THAT militant anyway because I myself and 90% of my family don’t fit that PURE definition of black, but it doesn’t mean we don’t get that concept that it would probably make racist white people happy if black people bred their own black out.
I never even considered marriage to a white person in a realistic way until I got older and saw that the black men from my background had a definite white preference. I get that there are MORE white women, and it doesn’t make me mad, and I understand how you stop caring when you are around them so much.
I think it’s also a trophy sort of thing a lot of times, quality. You can even see it in how most black men who DO like black women want a LIGHT black woman. There are plenty of Gabrielle Union/Nia Long pretty dark skinned black women, but they are not viewed as being of as high of quality as Halle Berry/Paula Patton types. In my experience, black men are nicer to lighter women, in a VERY obvious way. MOST OF THEM. Men who are light-skinned themselves are usually an exception unless they’re color struck, and most of the black guys with a preference for dark women were light or non-american.
Agabond, I never liked the way you presented the black women/ white men thing. In my experience, black men have an almost 99% loyalty of black women attraction-wise, but your articles are always about how white men don’t find black women attractive. The angle of your article didn’t surprise me because I think most black men are aware of the fact that black women aren’t considered high quality in the way that white women are, even if they themselves prefer black women. I can’t think of ANY black women I know who are my mom’s age that date white men. I don’t know any who haven’t been approached by white men at some point. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED. Younger black women are different, but even I feel strange as someone who does, but it is becoming more common.
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@Peanut
You asked a question in this thread, paraphrased-“Why do black.men turn their backs on the black women who birthed them, raised them and love them?”
Not all black women (even among the mothers) love black men. If a black boy.is raised by a.mother who tells him that he’s worthless, if he spends his time around women who don’t think that hes good enough to date (as in saying that he’s corny or nerdy or whatever), then he has a bad experience or two with black women who *are* willing to date him, its easy for him to rationalise dating out. Did you think that it was only “Precious”-type abuse that occurs in the black community, but no potential “Prince”s or “Tyler”s?
I met and administered medical care to a black man who had a massive triangle-shaped scar on.his back. As he was a member of the bomb defusing squad at our base, I floated a joke about.him not being able to outrun a badly defused bomb (these guys had/have warped senses of humour, so I knew that he wouldn’t be insulted.) He told me that his mother pressed an electric iron to his back when he was eight years old. Not an abusive daddy who “mommy” was sensible in leaving, not a foster parent, not a jackass friend, his bloody “mother“!!! It wasn’t a fraternity stunt or an accident, his already abusive and violent (as in, she had a reputation for doing evil things before she came up with the idea of the iron) mother did it. Now, do you think that a person who was willing to press a steam iron onto the body of a child until the room began to smell like pork was just naturally “loving and caring” until that moment? Do you think that a child who endured that type of abuse (and subsequent cover up) at the hands of people (in this case, black women), should hold no anger towards his tormentors? Hell, they would have gotten away with it if he hadn’t bled through his shirt within a minute of getting to school (no, his mother didn’t even think to take him to the hospital.) And no, he couldn’t even bring himself to get naked around black women (I had to be dragged out of my section of the hospital because the residing doctor and on-call personnel at that time were all black women, a rarity for Afghanistan at that time.) For emphasis: I had to be told instructions on how to minister to a patient through a closed door (despite the fact that I was and still am not trained in nursing) because a 190 cm (6’2″), 95kg (over 200 lb of solid muscle) black man started crying because a black women “forced” him to take off his shirt (and by forced, I mean that she politely asked him to remove his shirt so that she could see his fresher wounds.)
This, obviously, was an extreme case. However, there are plenty of black men who have received abuse at the ha.de of their female relatives and/or peers. Like I said in my.missing post, my mother tried to prostitute me for crack. I know plenty of black men who grew up like Antoine Fisher. I know dozens of black men who spent their teens and older being told that they weren’t “good enough” to date (how many times should a man be turned down before being “allowed” to be bitter? For a sense of scale, a black boy who asks out and gets turned down by a different girl once a week will endure over 50 rejections in a year. If he stats asking girls out at the age of 13 and doesn’t get more than a “No” from black women until he graduates from college, that’s close to or over 500 rejections.)
Am I saying that BW have to start saying “Yes” to any herb or chump or corny dude who hits on them? Hell no! Would I *like* it if some of you would start looking at things from the shoes of the less-than? Yes.
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@Peanut
“no i wouldn’t because black women aren’t uplifted as the standard of beauty in this society.
I think he’s brainwashed because the ONLY reason he dated a black woman was because no white women were around, I found that troublesome and felt like he was just using black women for sex in that sense, but he only SERIOUSLY dates/marries white women that is why i think he’s brainwashed”
The fact that he is stereotyping women is even more telling. When he tries to justify his (magical) preference he isn’t talking about the different qualities of the individual women he’s been with. He is describing how he sees the whole group. In his mind white women don’t just look similar, they also have similar personalities and behave in similar ways. This quote:
“The next few years it became apparent that I was attracted to white women more than black women. The more I woke up next to a white woman, I found my self attracted to the smell of their hair, their smoothly shaved legs, their french manicured toes, their porcelain like skin and their free spirit”
clearly shows his perception of women is racialized He is not dating individuals, he is dating their race.
If a white man said he prefers to date black women because they have big butts, beautiful lips and have strong, dominating personalities that would be messed up too – it doesn’t really matter who is the current standard of beauty. Seeing people as their race first and then as an individual is always wrong.
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And yet it’s surprisingly common for their sons to turn to raping, beating and killing women who look just like their mother.
I always thought it was interesting how the majority of serial murderers and rapists were white men.
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@Peanut
I apologize, but I really do not understand what you’re trying to say here. Rephrase it for me, please? Thank you.
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If the Black Man embraces colorism, then you might as well throw in the towel in the fight against White Supremacy. Either that, or Black Women must take the helm of the fight, which is basically what’s happened already.
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Eriq LaSalle says,
“The issue I had was that the show has, in my opinion, not shown a three-dimensional, balanced, black-on-black relationship. As a matter of fact, I just felt that the two relationships that I had with Black women were very dysfunctional, and not explored. And when I got into interracial relationship, I thought it was a much better written story line. I think Black women are so sensitive to seeing interracial relationships because they feel they’re getting the short end of the stick.”
“I hated ending something that was working, but I felt there was a greater issue. I felt we were inadvertently sending a very strange message that I wasn’t comfortable with, which is: Here’s a successful Black man who can only have dysfunctional relationships with Black women. But, when he dates outside his race, he is more vulnerable, more open, sweeter, more romantic, sensual. All the things I think are false. I feel it’s a shame we can’t point to a positive, three-dimensional, fully developed Black-on-Black relationship in recent memory. As a Black artist and as a Black man, I do have a responsibility to my community not to perpetuate things that are detrimental to my community and myself.”
laromana says,
I greatly appreciate Eriq LaSalle’s supportive/concerned comments regarding his desire to see BW/BM relationships presented in an accurate/positive manner. I also respect Eriq’s PRO-BW attitude in acknowledging how BW feel when they see themselves CONSTANTLY portrayed in a negative manner in American media.
Since I believe in RECIPROCITY, PRO-BW BM, like Eriq LaSalle are the type of BM who I can RESPECT/SUPPORT because he’s choosing to show love/respect towards BW and concern about the negative way they are viewed/treated in American culture/media.
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robwarner3 says,
One view is that some BM/WW couples actively direct hateful remarks and stereotypes on BW, and mostly for reasons that are not very well thought out. There has to be a slight few who have had horrible experiences covering all their past(s) and it is very hard to get over that and see that not all BW are like the ones those experiences came from. Still, they should be intelligent enough to make that distinction and I cannot respect them for making such a general statement about BW.
I have an ex-wife, long story there, but in summary she lied to me about loving me, crashed my credit through the basement, and refused to see that she did anything wrong. We were a WM/BW marriage. I mention this (the story I mean) only because it is a personal example of how a past experience can affect how you see someone or some group of people. It took me some time to get past that, but I have done it. That is why I have no respect for the anti-BW statements these BM/WW couples make, or the individuals themselves for that matter.
laromana says,
robwarner3,
I really appreciate your PRO-BW spirit. Many would believe that, on the basis of your negative experience with your ex-wife, you’d be justified in adopting ANTI-BW HATE as a response but, instead, you’ve CHOSEN to continue showing respect towards BW.
Your attitude also demonstrates why ANTI-BW BM who have had negative experiences with SOME BW, are NOT justified in CHOOSING to resort to ANTI-BW HATE.
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Suzy says,
@ ShadyGrady from 21:52:07 (had typed this before work) – I think you are overlooking/ignoring a major fundamental point of why the issue of BM/WW relationships are a sore spot for many black women. Even if the majority of black men marry black women, the ones who don’t are very disproportional to the percent of black women who marry interracially. Additionally, far too many of the black men who marry interracially justify their “preference” by bashing black women. I know you think we should just let it roll off our shoulders – because why would we want them anyway – but I think you fail to realize that there seems to be a “silent majority” of black men who do not DEFEND us from these attacks. While there is a MINORITY of black men who actually actively and routinely do this, they are in many ways echoing the very hostile, negative anti-black woman rhetoric of society at large – and we are often times the ONLY people speaking out in our defense (and get to be labeled “angry” for being upset, and thus our emotions and reasons thoroughly and immediately invalidated) at something I would think ANYONE would be angry at if such vitriol was directed at them. If such sentiments were directed at white women, there would be no end to the white man’s rage and quest to stop it as I remarked on earlier.
laromana says,
Suzy,
Thanks for your EXCELLENT comments that clearly describe how American BW HATE CULTURE is UNFAIR/WRONG and needs to be challenged/condemned by EVERYONE (especially BM)
Your comments also support the FACT that BW have a RIGHT to take OFFENSE/DEFEND ourselves against ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS without being attacked for doing so.
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Okay, my thing is it doesn’t matter to me why random, unknown men might not want me — I’m not going to spend one minute trying to convince them otherwise. And for me that statement applies to all men, regardless of race. Why in the world would I want to browbeat or guilt a man into having ANYTHING to do with me if he has expressed an intense hatred (whether rational or irrational/deserved or undeserved) or repulsion for me? Or that he’s simply, bottomline, finds me unattractive (and most especially if it’s due to something I can’t change, such as my racial affiliation)?
I will be much better off without such a man in my personal life. And he, hopefully, will be much happier (or not) with a person he prefers and wants to be around.
Simply being a man, or more specifically, a Black man certainly doesn’t mean he “owes” me ANYTHING and that includes a chance at having a relationship — regardless if it meant that I had to be single/alone for life . . . .
Looking after each other when it comes to discrimination and human rights et cetera is the right thing to do. I personally prefer it, however, if no one confuses that with thinking HE’S got dibs on ME just because we’re members of the same race.
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“I personally prefer it, however, if no one confuses that with thinking HE’S got dibs on ME just because we’re members of the same race.”
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Thank you!
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@ Eco & Peanut
So, if a WM prefers BW with big butts, beautiful lips and strong, dominating personalities, that would be:
1. messed up
2. generalizing
3. a fetish or something
But it wouldn’t be 1-3 if a BM prefers those same traits in a BW because — they are the same race/color???
I think you are both forgetting/missing something very important here in your theorizing. Race is a man-made social construct. IT’S NOT REAL, it’s a false abstract that people “subscribe” to as if it was real.
If any individual is attracted to a particular skin tone/color – it doesn’t necessarily mean they: have a racialized fetish, or that they have underlying/overlying issues regarding race – superiority/inferiority and all the other BS that’s often attached to it.
With 7 billion souls living on the planet, if I wish to find my preference – an individual female of a certain skin tone – with a big butt, beautiful lips and a dominating personality, as well as other specific qualities/traits… would that be wrong? And who should judge whether it is or isn’t??
Would it be fetishistic if a short man preferred to marry a tall woman?
What about short women who prefer tall men? Or tall slender men? Or short men with big bank accounts? Or muscular men with no children?
You two seem to think it’s against some sort of code/rule/standard/group loyalty to like/prefer something/someone different than what society/culture says/thinks people should like/love. As in 1-3 above.
This isn’t about some BM bashing BW. This is about confining/appointing people to boxes put together with someones restricting/constricting dimensions.
Just to be clear, I don’t believe that people should be treated differently based on their skin color. But if someone is attracted to, or looking for a particular mate of a particular hue, tone or color, to love and cherish, or whatever consenting adults wish to do, I have no issues or concerns. It’s their business, and not mine.
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inregards to the guy who said that he dated black women because they had big butts, big lips and strong attitudes, since he was being asked why he dated those women as a whole/group, not each women specifically, wouldn’t he have to use generalizations to say he had a certain prefence for them?
If you are describing a group; you have to generalize because otherwise its impossible to describe them.
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It has really angered and saddened me how so many people I have encountered just seem to accept negative , hurtful stereotypes about BW without even questioning them . I’ve heard people of all racial backgrounds flippantly throw around the “bad attitudes” trope and seem to accept it as if it were absolute fact.It really is very widespread. Most of my dealings with people are with recent immigrants to Canada and I wonder where the heck they’ve picked up this bs from. Whenever I have confronted people about this they either come to see and realize that the media/ racist power systems have influenced them, or they decide to insist that what they say “is true” ….sigh
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wow you guys are still talking about this, I say unless you are the actual party partaking you are looking/judging from afar anyway and maybe you should just butt out and find your own man/woman.
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“racism affects our perception of beauty and beauty is just as much of a construct as race is…so if we can play the race is a construct game, then so is beauty so why can’t a man “prefer” equally a beautiful black woman?”
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As been already stated, most black men prefer to date and marry BW..
In a system of racism/white supremacy, imo, it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect equal numbers/outcomes, equal representation and equal rates of attraction.
If you wish to discuss what different men find, see, deem and call beautiful – that’s a wide, complex and subjective topic – although there are some group similarities and experiences, it stills remains that no two men on this planet are exactly alike.
Any smart, wise and discerning man – who’s not hung up on society’s views – isn’t going to ignore or overlook a black woman with certain desirable intrinsic INNER qualities — that appeals to him. Period. If he wants her, he’s going to “step” to her.
A woman – depending on what’s she’s looking for – whether it’s a date, a booty call, a courtship – should know or learn to find/attract the type of man she seeks.
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@Peanut
“I just think there’s more than just a simple ‘preference’ going on in that article…”
Yeah! Generally, I agree with 99% of your observations about preference.
@Matari
“But it wouldn’t be 1-3 if a BM prefers those same traits in a BW because — they are the same race/color???”
You changed the situation. In my example a white man likes those things in black women, not in a woman. If a black man said he prefers black women because they have big butts, beautiful lips and strong, dominating personalities that would be stereotyping too. 1-3 would apply to him too.
“If any individual is attracted to a particular skin tone/color – it doesn’t necessarily mean they: have a racialized fetish, or that they have underlying/overlying issues regarding race – superiority/inferiority and all the other BS that’s often attached to it.”
Sure, but in the case of the guy from the article ( http://iswirl.info/2008/09/why-white-women-2/ ) he DOES have issues. In his mind race isn’t just about looking similar – white women have similar personalities too. He clearly says he was attracted to: “shaved legs, their french manicured toes, (…) and their free spirit” as if these were things unique to white women. He is stereotyping them.
“With 7 billion souls living on the planet, if I wish to find my preference – an individual female of a certain skin tone – with a big butt, beautiful lips and a dominating personality, as well as other specific qualities/traits… would that be wrong?”
Depends. Would you ignore a woman who has every trait you like except for the right skin tone?
“Would it be fetishistic if a short man preferred to marry a tall woman?”
If height is the thing he likes most about her, then he is a fetishist. Fetish means: “an object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence”. Being tall shouldn’t be the most important quality of a person.
@V-4
“inregards to the guy who said that he dated black women because they had big butts, big lips and strong attitudes, since he was being asked why he dated those women as a whole/group, not each women specifically, wouldn’t he have to use generalizations to say he had a certain prefence for them?
If you are describing a group; you have to generalize because otherwise its impossible to describe them.”
The attitude thing makes the difference. Race is about looking similar. Saying black women generally have bigger butts and big lips is OK – you are mentioning features that are more common for black women. Saying they have strong attitudes too is wrong, because that is not related to their race (to the way they look). It shows you believe in racial stereotypes, that people who look similar behave similar too. Having an attitude is not a “black thing”.
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“why is the black woman the one who gets picked last again and again why is the bw the one who has the articles about how objectively ugly she is published?: what’s up with that if race is a construct, then why do people care what “race” of woman they date…obviously its more than a social construct”
Picked last by whom? The black woman is picked first by black men. Most black men (ugly/handsome, rich/poor, positive/negative, classy/trashy) pick black women to date, marry and have children with. Black women are who they generally find most attractive.
The black woman is picked last by white men. While I can see how this might be a problem if you happen to be a black woman who is attracted to white men, there is really not a whole lot that can be done to change it. Notable exceptions aside, most people still wind up marrying within their race.
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About Black Men abadoning their families; statistically speaking depending on their education/social class women intiate 7-9 out of 10 divorces.
Now thats the nation as a whole, versus broken down by races but off-hand I can’t think of any reason black people would be significantly different in that regard than any other group.
If 70% of black women aren’t married its because 70% of black women don’t want to be.
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@Shady_Grady
@V-4
Do you believe that the black women who say men (in general) are mistreating them are greatly misrepresenting their situation? Why would they do that?
I think neither of you is presenting a strong argument. The fact that most people marry within their race doesn’t mean that is what they prefer – it shows who they end up with.
Divorce statistics cannot be used to explain the amount of people who do not get married at all.
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Eco
“Being tall shouldn’t be the most important quality of a person.”
Says you..
You might also say the same about wide hips, but people are often unconsciously/biologically/instinctively drawn/attracted to that which ENHANCES survival AND their ability to produce offspring.
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@Eco-given that I don’t believe that either men or women can be totally trusted not to shade evidence, put blinders on, blame shift, use guilt and shame to manipulate the opposite gender, engage in hypocritical self-serving arguments, hide their own preferences behind lofty sounding rhetoric and more in seeking to meet their own socio/biological needs, to be blunt no I don’t believe that women complaining about men or vice versa can be taken at face value.
And that’s true across racial/ethnic/national lines.
The very same black women crying the blues about all the black men chasing after white women (in media or supposedly in reality) do not have a mumbling word to say when a black woman dates or marries a white man. This is hypocrisy. They are full of it.
Some people on this very post don’t want to deal with the fact that most black men seek out black women to be intimate with. If that doesn’t show their preference I don’t know what could. Then it becomes “well she’s too light, or she has this hair color or this hair texture or blah, blah, blah”. It’s really quite revealing of their own insecurities. If a black woman truly believes that the only reason a black man is with her is that he couldn’t get a white woman then that is a personal problem.
If a short relatively impoverished man sat around complaining incessantly that women in general (and highly attractive women in particular) didn’t give him the time of day, most people would tell him to change the things about himself that he could and find a woman who found him acceptable. They wouldn’t feed his negative feelings by agreeing how horrible it is that women have the audacity to have preferences and that the world needs to change so that billions of women’s ideals put him at the top of their list instead of near the bottom.
Some black men will like white women. Some white men like Asian woman. Some Hispanic men like black women. Some black women like white men. And so on. Whatever your preference is, act on it and live well. It really is that simple.
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And you folks really wonder why the black man/black woman dynamic is so damaged?
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@Thordaddy
The black man and black woman dynamic is not damaged. There are plenty of black couples who are in healthy relationships who love, cherish and care about each other that we see each and everyday. So, don’t go there.
That’s like saying the Asian woman and Asian man dynamic is damaged just because some people from that Continent or elsewhere marry outside of their race.
There is someone for everyone, somewhere.
Some people are attracted to others outside of their race and others are not. So, why generalise.
Just because the media makes certain thing fashionable, it doesn’t mean that everyone is copying it. Just saying.
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“it’s not difficult to get sex…but getting married is becoming increasingly difficult if you’re a Black woman.”
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Here’s a novel (yet nowadays quite unpopular) idea!
If a significant number of black women would keep their legs closed UNTIL MARRIAGE – I’d be willing to bet that black marriage rates would soar out of sight!
Why?
Because BM are going to play by whatever rules BW set – in order to get the poonani!
Black women, your COLLECTIVE power, particularly where BM are concerned, is between your legs. It should be difficult for BM to get sex, IF marriage is the desired outcome. Sex is too easy to get, which is why men are proposing less and less.
You, black-women, hold ALL the cards. You have the power/poonani that black men want and will do whatever it takes to GET it.. and if it requires us to marry you to get it, we will marry you. Ya’ll, as a collective, have us in your grip. So it’s up to ya’ll, how you’ll use that grip.
No farmer invests in a cow that’s giving him free “milk.”
And why should he?
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Peanut says,
-@ Shady Grady,
I’m speaking about picked last in general for every thing…not just dating. Picked last in terms of beauty, picked last in terms in terms of appeal in mass media. Black women do not get picked by other races at the rate of other women, that’s being picked last, black men are picked last too…but Black women date out even less than Black men. the point i was making was within the context of interracial relationships I making the point that IF it was just about “preference” good clean preference…Black women would not get picked LAST all the time…
-and about Black men picking Black women first, unfortunately again Black women are THE LEAST married group…so Black men may be sleeping with/ marrying Black women, but we’re still PICKED LAST for marriage even by black men…so yes we’re picked last in every thing
-it’s not difficult to get sex…but getting married is becoming increasingly difficult if you’re a Black woman.
-and shady grady,
you realize there are more than enough Black women for Black men…there’s an over-abundance of us…not the case with Black men yet they date out at twice the rate…
hmmm….
If all things were balanced, I have feeling things wouldn’t play out like this.
-too many bm just don’t marry black women even if they date, sleep with or have a child with a bw, black women are not being picked for marriage the way they should:
laromana says,
EXCELLENT comments, Peanut.
You’ve concisely/accurately articulated the MAIN ways American BW HATE CULTURE and ANTI-BW BM are negatively affecting BW’s relationship lives.
I believe that, despite ANTI-BW DENIERS/DISMISSERS, the negative effects of American BW HATE CULTURE are OBVIOUS and can be seen in the MANY ways BW’s humanity/dignity/individuality/femininity are CONSTANTLY being trashed by EVERYONE in American media/society.
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@Matari
“You might also say the same about wide hips, but people are often unconsciously/biologically/instinctively drawn/attracted to that which ENHANCES survival AND their ability to produce offspring.”
There are so many physical features that send us messages about a person’s health and fertility that paying so much attention to just one or two doesn’t make any sense to me. Besides, aren’t men who focus on physical features simply thinking with their d*cks? Is that really something that makes sense from the perspective of a whole lifetime?
“If a significant number of black women would keep their legs closed UNTIL MARRIAGE – I’d be willing to bet that black marriage rates would soar out of sight!
Because BM are going to play by whatever rules BW set – in order to get the poonani!”
Seriously? Are you saying that black women are too easy and black men are dumb enough to marry for sex? Isn’t love supposed to be the reason why people get married?
I really hope you were joking and I didn’t get it.
@Shady_Grady
I do think that being critical, asking for evidence is important, but generally I cannot agree with you. I think you are wrong when you are implying that BM-WW relationships are comparable with BW-WM. Men pursue women and can ask out whoever they like. Women can only pick a guy out of those who choose them, who ask them out. When they try to pursue men they are seen as desperate or easy.
Another thing is that for a men becoming more attractive is much easier than for a woman. Women are seen as truly attractive if they are young and beautiful. Men are expected to provide for the family – they are judged based on what they have accomplished. Looks are not that important for a man. A decent looking doctor can easily become more attractive than a good looking gardener.
I’m not saying women cannot improve their situation, to some extent they can, but the dating game is clearly rigged against them.
I also can’t agree with your assumption that black women, who say they are mistreated by black men, all think along similar lines. There is the kind you are talking about – hypocrites, women who complain about being abandoned and stereotyped who have abandoned black men. I do think that there are also women who genuinely point out the fact that their situation isn’t fair and that without the support of men they cannot do much about it.
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@Eco..
I don’t think anyone can say that men or women have it easier in the dating market. If women supposedly can’t even find the guts to approach men that they are interested in yet expect men to do it over and over and over again who really has it easier? Men chase women until women catch them. It’s a dance. Evidently there isn’t any place on the planet where men are not more interested in youth and beauty while women are not more interested in resources, power, height and leadership. I don’t think these desires are bad or good. They just are. We all may have complained about them from time to time but it’s really like complaining about the Sun rising in the East. Since you know that’s going to happen, you might as well adapt. Men die earlier and engage in all sorts of objectively ridiculous or dangerous behavior in order to become “more attractive ” to women. That’s what works. Always has been and apparently always will be.
Now if a particular man doesn’t want to play that game, finds it demeaning or thinks that it’s unfairly rigged against him he is quite free to drop out of the game and do other (presumably less well paid) things. But if he does that he loses the right to complain that he can’t find a quality woman. This works for both genders.
If women do not make good decisions when their attractiveness is at its peak (say 18-35) , they don’t have any business complaining how unfair things are when they’re in their 40’s or 50’s and might not have the same allure they did as younger women. That’s life.
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@peanut
Not every black woman is marriage material.
Not every black man is marriage material.
We can’t assume that all of these black women singing the blues wanted to get married or SHOULD have gotten married. Just because someone says they’re marriage material doesn’t necessarily make it so. No one has any “right” to be married.
But as mentioned upthread, marriage just offers less to both genders these days. And that’s across racial lines, too.
Again, it takes two to tango. If women are making dumb decisions as to who to sleep with or date that’s on them ultimately. I do not believe that every woman wanted to get married and naively slept with a man who told her he would marry her. Life doesn’t work that way.
People need to be able to make a case to their partner why marriage is a good idea. These days, with so many marriages breaking up and women initiating most of the divorces marriage has less appeal than it used to.
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@peanut.
Black men are picked last by other races too. However you almost NEVER hear a black man complaining about this. If he does someone will almost immediately stop by to clown him for complaining and mock him even more for desiring a non-black woman.
As a rule every group finds its own most attractive and marries within. The fact that marriage is increasingly losing its cachet among some blacks has nothing to do with black men dating or marrying white women.
Again, Black men can not be blamed if a slightly higher fraction of White women find them more attractive than White men find Black women-relatively speaking. There is no way to equalize IR dating/marriage rates across every race/gender combination. And we’re not going to outlaw IR marriage or dating. So getting so bent out of shape about it as some BW seem to do just doesn’t make any sense.
There are more older BW than BM. Since we know that men of any race tend not to find older women as attractive, that might indicate that BW who are interested in marriage would be better advised to seriously pursue it in their youth, when their ability to make demands is as high as it will ever be. But again, not every woman is marriage material or “deserves” a husband.
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White women are to be BANGED and left alone.
sorry.
one.
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“Men die earlier and engage in all sorts of objectively ridiculous or dangerous behavior in order to become “more attractive ” to women.”
Many of them engage in that “objectively ridiculous or dangerous behavior” behavior (speed car and motorcycle racing etc.) because it makes them personally feel more “manly”, and will often pursue such activities whether there’s a woman (or women) involved or not.
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eco wrote: “Divorce statistics cannot be used to explain the amount of people who do not get married at all.”
ITA.
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@MaMu1977
No one should feel comfortable about dictating the terms for attraction, no matter how shallow we might think they are. How convenient that years of rejection can be readily remedied by black women “looking at the man within” while the same courtesy isn’t offered to black women, who are instructed to conform/contort into something “pleasing”. But that’s an aside. Rejection is personal and requires a personal approach not a collective one. Counseling with a qualified professional or looking for women where there is relatively less perceived competition for female attention would be better solutions. Either way these are options not forced measures despite some of these guys making them appear as such.
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ok peanut, It always gets blamed on the white men and white fathers for “pushing” their daughters into the “forbidden fruit”(black men’s arms) with racist “stay with your own people attitudes”………… Isn’t that what black women have been doing hard core for the last 20 or so years . “Racism” and racist attitudes towards your sons and loved ones have sort of backfired on you.
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My sister, a white Catholic feminist from a small town, married a black man. She dated a few white guys in college, then met her husband and she aggressively sought him out. He wasn’t tall. He was smart, but there was no obvious sign he’d be well-off at the time. He was geeky, but funny.
I’ve spent a lot of time with him over the past few years. Since my sister is a raging bitch with control issues out the wazoo, I’ve often wondered why such a nice guy would marry her, especially given that he had three girlfriends he was serious with in school, two of whom were black.
His words:
1) Your sister wouldn’t leave me alone.
2) She was hot. I personally admit she wasn’t ugly. But hot? That’s a stretch. I saw pictures of one ex, a black woman; this woman was definitely hotter than my sister, without any doubt.
3) She could cook. This is true. She can cook. She should thank my mother.
4) It was time to get married.
He didn’t take into account her insane bitchiness. The guy is practically a browbeaten yes-man now.
BTW, my sister and I most emphatically do not get along.
As far as black owmen behaving worse than my sister, I doubt there are many educated women who behave more oppressively than my sister.
My father is not aggressively racist, but has a huge mess of unsubstantiated racist ideas as well as others which have some reasoning. My mother is the most racist among us, observably. She’s also capable of some pretty hateful stuff, about race and everything else; she speaks ill of many family members, likely me when I’m not around. To say she was opposed to the marriage is an understatement. But BIL persevered and convinced her he wasn’t a crack-head serial killer with four women on the sly. And after a pretty severe talking to by my father, when he was checked out BIL with a comb whose teeth were so fine you could barely see through them, my father said this to my mother:
“It’s her choice, she needs to live with him, not you. I don’t think it’s our place to say anything.” – which meant, Shut Up Woman. And there was no word ever uttered again. My father is downright chummy with his son-on-law, and actively seeks out contact with his BIL’s extended family. It’s not lovely-dovey, but my father is respectful and is a Manly Man with the other men.
He’s straight up enough to talk about race as a white guy. I wouldn’t call him sensitive, but he never seems to offend the in-laws. My mother, who is a canny character, regularly ends up insulting someone. But this is not remarkable: She does this to many people.
Two children later, and my father has not once ever suggested it was a mistake, that there’s anything wrong with the kids, and has showered his two grandchildren with love and affection. He worries about how white and black people treat them. The oldest is at the age, so boys are becoming interesting. She wants to do science. He takes her on little science trips and to museums. Not a word against her black father or her being “black” ever gets uttered in his presence. He never speaks down to her and expects her to do very well in school.
He is still, by and large, a racist. But I’ve moderated my assessment. While racist, I think he always insisted that individuals be judged on merit; a white guy who was a bastard was still a bastard, and an honest black man was preferable.
It goes to show how racism plays out. It’s not always the same.
Personally, I’ve noticed a lot of interacial dynamics in the family.
Almost all of the tension comes from my sister, who insists on seeing racism everywhere. While my BIL likes hanging out with me, she thinks I’m a racist bastard. She thinks literally everyone is a racist bastard. She smells racism under every rock. When I suggested she married the guy because he was a black man – dangerous Black guy, I want to shock Daddy, but also conveniently safe being ivy-educated and mild-mannered – she laid into me with a metaphorical two by four.
On the other hand, my two nieces have been browbeaten at school for being too white, often aggressively so, and since going to an all-Asian/White private school, are condescended to by just a couple of teachers and sniffed at and condescended to by almost al lof the Asian kids; the white kids walk tippy-toe around them. The older one is very sensitive to it. She declared herself not black for a while, then decided she hated Chinese people. Then she was proud of the fact she looked like Mom and Dad.
This is not going to be an easy road for her. But she has resources.
I’m racist – I make no bones about it – but in ways that aren’t typical. I view humans from the lens of biology and population genetics, in which I was trained: Humans are just another mammal, with population characteristics with complex cultural systems. But no less mammals than squirrels or rhesus monkeys. I expect internal variation. I’m surprised by how few differences there are between populations; I suspect severe population bottlenecks where we almost went extinct several times and infrequent but substantial interbreeding make us lucky. I can’t imagine how horrible human rights would be in a world with actual Neanderthals or archaic homo around.
That said, when I get on a subway with a large group of black kids, I am hyper-cautious. When I see my nieces, I see my own family. I do look for confirmation of racist notions, indicating confirmation-bias seeking. I try to be neutral, but it’s more or less impossible.
Whatever their motivations, the only solution may be fucking each other until it’s irrelevant and no category last longer than a generation, and there are as many exceptions as rules.
I have no idea. I do know I care about what happens to my nieces.
I spend a lot of time in Korea. Huge time, in fact. Also China. I know my niece’s reception here would be very different from mine. The racist in Korea is palpable, vicious and hugely complex. In China, it’s byzantine.
I worry about that too.
On the other hand, my BIL is great to drink with. So there you go:
Racist or not, see the humans. See them jump. See them do their human shit.
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My opinion is some white fathers in the hippy baby boomer generation have gotten a little too open about it. It seems like they would kick a white kid troublemakers butt for even looking at their daughter, but feel scared or politically incorrect to chase some black punk away. So in that case the racism is in the black kids favor. Because no one wants to be pegged as a racist. Look if it’s a nice kid that has good intentions fine. But when it comes to my daughter I don’t care if you are white or black ……you are going to have to get passed me, and I don’t tickle. You better have good intentions and if I find out some aswipe is just using her to get back for slavery…..well god help him.
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But I think my sister is, frankly, worse than my father as far as racism goes. She has ideas. Some of them are well-meaning but kind-of oddly paternalistic.
My father may be racist, but he’s direct about it and straightforward. he takes jokes about white people and laughs at them. BIL’s father is also a funny guy and a man’s man, and they can spend hours at a family dinner shooting the shit
.
Nobody has any idea what they talk about.
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my daughter is only six, and i’ll tell you this, I go out of my way to hope she sees all people as the same. In this country that is very hard. she is in kindergarten and we live in a somewhat mixed area, out of 20 kids I would say 10 white , 4 black, 4 Latino, and 2 Asians, her best friend is Angela (not her real name) a little asian girl. She has come home and asked me why her friends eyes are different…..What am I supposed to say..should I go on some boring evolutionary scientific rant about the ice-age and sandstorms…………or do you say “God made everyone special”………….. so she might see her differently. I just said “well everyone has different eyes, like daddy’s eye’s are dark brown and yours are light” but she’s sharp she knows there’s more to it. So I had to say well Angela is Asian and their eyes are slightly different because they come from a different country, and we look like our parents and grandparents. I told her about my Irish and Italian ancestors and how they were seen as different when they first got here, and how in america that is what is beautiful. So then she asked me why are black people black. So I told her well, don’t you get very tanned in the summer after going to Mom-Moms pool all of the time?(I’m dark skinned Italian..she gets that from me) well that is god’s way of protecting us from the sun………and it gets passed on to your children and grandchildren and in africa black people had been in the sun for a very long time so if you were at mom moms pool for a very long time you would look like them. She actually got that one….but still she couldn’t understand why Angela had different eyes. So I just told her that God likes Angela so she made her beautiful with cool looking eyes. So then she said well why doesn’t god like me? and then it hit me. You have to teach your kids to understand other people, but don’t do it to the point that they don’t respect where THEY come from or who THEY are. So I told her well hun don’t ever say that God loves you just the same and don’t EVER forget that. We come from a proud people who made the journey through ellis island and for that we are strong……………..I’m sorry I won’t apologize for remembering where I come from just because I’m WHITE………….
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I also had a best friend who was Asian , he moved away after 10th grade, and I still miss him to this day. I also fight against what I call positive racism. I could tell my daughter that most Asians are smart,nice, cool, good looking, humble, and at peace with their lives. But that is also wrong to do. We all need to stop projecting personal experience to all members of a race and that includes against all white people which is real popular these days……..just look at this blog……….
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I dated lots of Asian women, and white women. I’ve dated a few black women, and lived with one more or less for a year. She was French and Senegalese.
I have this to say about women:
They’re pretty much all women.
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and ending racism doesn’t mean you have to kiss butt. Ok . Some of these white girls are a product of that. like it or not. I know that isn’t as juicy as the big bad racist white father angle .
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I’ll admit that the way I was raised impacted the way I dated. I was a rebel to a point but the big Catholic Weddings especially on the Italian side impacted me. I wanted that. and I knew it wouldn’t be the same with a black girl or a Jewish girl. I had to conform to what I thought was the family tradition. I did date a Jewish Girl for a while and some of my family joked a little but it really wasn’t a big deal to them as it was in my head after attending so many Catholic Weddings and CCD ( That is catholic study for public school kids those who don’t know) but really her older brother had more of a serious problem with me. He probably thought the same way I did, but he was older. He told me that I shouldn’t bother getting too close to Amy because him and his other brother and father would kick my as. This was at a box seat of a Phillies game. They came from rich people. He knew where I was from (the other side of the tracks) and he would make sure me and her would never happen. Of course that only made me mad and I went on dating her , even though I secretly loved another. I told him f u and you and your boys try it because you don’t want any parts of me and mine. I said well by brothers a butcher by trade and my uncles an undertaker………..bring it fool. It almost came to blows right there. We really weren’t in love and it was a waste of our times. But I think that is a interreligional relationship that I think Peanut is trying to get at where it is for the wrong reasons.
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Abagond I made a mistake in that story mentioning her name, anyway you could edit:)
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I changed her name.
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Thank you
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I still see it though…….the sentence is” I shouldn’t bother getting too close to “xxxxx” because……………………”
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Look again.
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thanks that guys probably still after me
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“I’m sorry I won’t apologize for remembering where I come from just because I’m WHITE………….”
***********************************************
QUESTION:
Dave, who is the individual (or group) you think requires an apology from you because you know where you came from?
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@ Matari well I am making an assumption based on a pattern of comments. I feel like the civil rights movement, as “right” as it is can be confusing and complicated. White children shouldn’t feel like they should be ashamed of who they are and where they come from.
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I don’t feel anyone NEEDs an apology from me as a group, and I definitely don’t want my kids to apologize for anything.As a father I take that to heart.
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“White children shouldn’t feel like they should be ashamed of who they are and where they come from.”
*********************************
It’s never been about where someone is from.
It’s about why some STILL have/maintain skin privilege, while “others” don’t have the luxury of having it.
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So when you see a white homeless person do you automatically think “what a loser…..his white skin gave him so many advantages……and he just threw all that away”……as if it was that easy just being white skinned.
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“I definitely don’t want my kids to apologize for anything.As a father I take that to heart.”
**********************
Good luck with that…
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“It’s not how hard you can hit…….It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward”……Rocky
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“Good Luck with that” I know that is impossible but you want the best for your kids. Look they are going to deal with bad people white and black that is a fact. Hopefully racial lines won’t be so thick by then.
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Dave – let’s compare apples to apples. Given the way this world works, whose chances are better for survival and recovery, the white homeless person, or the black homeless person?
Why is it that hard for YOU to see/admit that white skin is advantageous in America?
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Matari it is if you are also rich, cool popular, talented, connected, and good looking it isn’t skin alone. and it’s not that I don’t see it, but it is alot more complicated than just the color of your skin.
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In America people like to look at whites as the absolute majority. Well what if you grew up in the inner city and you are more under that local jurisdiction then the entire federal system. You are more likely to be discriminated against, beat up, clowned,etc than a black person. can you see that . lets see it you can admit some tough truth.
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look man, I’ve been there and I’m still struggling. I don’t look at someone who makes it black or white and say ” well they got there because” I say “GOOD GOIN KID” because we all need encouragement, and I’m sorry if I “broke up your black panther party”…………(Forrest Gump) but are there privileged people who don’t deserve what they have……..yes. But their lives aren’t as fulfilling because the funnest part is that journey to the top man.
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Of course I can see/admit that. But even you know that being that lone kid growing up in a tough ethnic neighborhood thing – goes both ways, right?
But one kid’s chances get much better at finding success, he will experience less bumps on his journey. The other kid faces more potholes, more flat tires, more indignities, a life rife with paper-cuts, road blocks/checks and negative assumptions because his skin color is darker.
No one is saying that being white is automatically peaches and cream.
But the evidence remains overwhelming that tremendous advantages are still in place.
I think you use RACE to compare how YOUR life is, relative to the privileges you have, but aren’t feeling/realizing/enjoying.
But if you think it’s bad for you now, chances are you’d find yourself in a worse predicament if you were a black male.
\Dave, haven’t we already had this convo at least 2-3 times ??
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We are really way OFF topic, so I’m going to stop now.
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@ Matari
Thank you. I will delete any further comments on this vein.
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Peanut,
You are so right about bw/ww IRs being less threatening than Black relationships. Racist Steve Sailer laments the fact that our President is actually married to a Black woman, not white.
Also, I read bell hooks’ viewpoint regarding bm/ww relationships as being less threatening today than other Black relationships. What she wrote in her first book is true.
Stephanie
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@Gorbachev
I’m racist – I make no bones about it – but in ways that aren’t typical.
I found it interesting reading your perspective about your sister and BIL, particularly in light of the above.
I think your honesty and candour are interesting and I guess your POV is that of many people in that we ALL have our prejudices built on experiences, fear, misinformation etc but, its HOW we choose to perpetuate them or even IF we decide to or whether we are able to rationalise these thoughts/feelings in our own minds, come to terms with them and ensure that they dont become a barrier in terms of our day to day existence.
Almost all of the tension comes from my sister, who insists on seeing racism everywhere. While my BIL likes hanging out with me, she thinks I’m a racist bastard. She thinks literally everyone is a racist bastard. She smells racism under every rock. When I suggested she married the guy because he was a black man – dangerous Black guy, I want to shock Daddy, but also conveniently safe being ivy-educated and mild-mannered – she laid into me with a metaphorical two by four.
Maybe, just maybe, she met and fell in love with this guy. In fact, it sounds as though she is besotted with him. I wonder if it is YOU that was the one who was most shocked and needed to re-adjust himself. Maybe, unwittingly, there was a teensy weensy part of you that lost respect for your sister when she took up with BM – this is not an uncommon thing amongst WM or other men with siblings in IRR for that matter. I only say this because you refer to your strained relationship over the years and seemingly ambivalent stance towards her in the now that you allude to. Also, if your mum is making objectionable comments, i’m not surprised your sister is seeing racism lurking round every corner.
On the other hand, my two nieces have been browbeaten at school for being too white, often aggressively so, and since going to an all-Asian/White private school, are condescended to by just a couple of teachers and sniffed at and condescended to by almost al lof the Asian kids; the white kids walk tippy-toe around them
I have to say here that this is the only thing that I have often found concerning about mixed race children in this type of relationship where there seems to be little input from the father in explaining and putting into perspective the childs racial diversity. It is natural for children to feel a lot of uncertainty in terms of who they are amongst their peers but, equally I feel it is important for the parents to ensure that a child does know ‘who’ they are, even if at the time it is discomfiting.
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Abagond:
Blackmen date/marry whitewomen and other non-black women because they can. If blackmen knew that they couldn’t get other women into bed, they wouldn’t chase. Second, blackmen know that they can play the game as long as they want to, meaning, they can indulge their swirl fantasies on their schedule…one day, one week, one month, one year, etc. It’s called B.M.S.P.(Black Male Sexual Priviledge). Blackmen are chasing tail, but, they don’t have the courage to be upfront about it. Brothas, don’t tell me it’s about colorblindness and love. I don’t believe that ish, i know how blackmen talk about whitewomen. They’re not talking about their personalities if you know what i mean. The black male/white female dynamic is about sexual lust, not romance. Whitemen have turned whitewomen into sex objects, and blackmen view them as such just the same. I want blackwomen to realize that it’s not about whitewomen, they’re being used as idolized pinatas by both groups of men. Blackmen think they’re getting back at whitemen by co-opting x amount of their women for sexual gain, which is funny to me, because, whitemen were too occupied with their female slaves to care about whitewomen anyway…Real Talk! As to dilution of our race, it’s a crapshoot. As black people, we should avoid the “One Drop Rule” trap that has existed in our race since slavery. Mulattos are not obligated to see themselves as black, date/marry black people, and so forth. If they want membership in our race, they have to be serious about it. Blackness can’t be used as cover for them…black identity without the loyalty. Halle Berry and Stacey Dash are examples of this mindset. Stacey Dash is half-black/half-mexican, married three whitemen, has three multiracial children. But, she wants society to see her as a blackwoman at the same time. She’s playing the system. Without loyalty, blackness doesn’t mean anything!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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@Demerera
I’m racist – I make no bones about it – but in ways that aren’t typical.
I found it interesting reading your perspective about your sister and BIL, particularly in light of the above.
Before I get nailed to a tree for admitting and not particularly apologizing for having racist opinions:
I come at it from a liberal perspective; I would like there to be no reason for human categories, but I treat humans as subjects like cockroaches or mice: unsentimentally. Evolution predicts there should be population subgroups, and lo and behold, there may be.
It doesn’t mean I think less of black people and I’m as far as you can get from being a white supremacist and still be white: But the principle reason I have any racist views is largely from viewing humans as animals first. I work with lots of black people; they’re generally smart, as charming as any normal people and – you guessed it – exactly like anyone else. I lived with a black woman for a year, and was always impressed by her poise and intelligence, and a french accent didn’t hurt. On the other hand, there’s the inner city. I’ve never experienced messed up like any American inner city. In my view, the politics of race and racism, liberal do-gooder racism and color-blindness, as well as the unfortunate response of its victims, has devastated a vast swathe of Americans. I see no good way out. I think the population is suffering dysgenic effects and is bifurcating: anyone with genetic predispositions to making good is getting or has gotten out. It’s possible that even if there’s no genetic difference then we’re breeding it as we speak. It takes shockingly few generations to produce serious shifts in gene frequencies. By letting this problem fester, we’re creating a permanent, insoluble problem. Its not encouraging.
And I’ve traveled most of the world, including Africa; alas, I find anecdotal evidence for politically incorrect ideas and population genetics has treated me to knowledge of how this could be. It’s very, very plausible. If height varies by ancestry, then anything else can. The mechanisms are well understood and the same effect appears when looking at all aspects of what it is to be human. It genuinely disturbs me.
That said: I have problems with my own racism, too. I’m a product of my culture. I have to work to keep rationalizations out of my head. I try to limit it to what science suggests and discovers; this is extremely difficult.
Am I racist? Yeah. Do I feel guilty? Not much. My greater loyalty is to what appears to be true; its political consequences notwithstanding. My science background taught me to try to strip emotion and feeling and sentiment from knowledge. This is difficult, but makes a nice goal. If presented with countering evidence, I’m extremely happy to explore it.
I have no endearing loyalty to any white race or ethnicity, as a result. I appreciate the white privilege I have in this society, especially after suffering its lack elsewhere. Should I apologize for this? Were it the other way around, I’m pretty sure, as absolutely typical humans, a majority black population in the US would behave in the same manner. Likely exactly the same. No one is morally superior. Only power differentials produce different results. DO I think black Americans should be wary of white people? Absolutely. DO I think the reverse? Alas, yes. Do I think black Americans should be wary of Asians? With much more experience in Asia than most, I say most definitely yes. Asian racism will die much harder and have more vicious side effects.
We navigate the world as individuals, even if we associate as groups.
I think color blindness is retarded. I come to many of the same places as Abagond, though on the other side of the fence. I actually hope for a world of flowers and peace and racelessness, but I think this is unlikely, at best. I want a functioning country and maximal happiness for everyone. I think black Americans looking to white people for redress is a profound waste of time. For good reasons, whites will never pony up; I sympathize with them. In a real sense, it makes more sense for blacks to be wary of whites and Asians. Vice versa is unfortunately also true. Best answer:
Plod ahead as best we can. Maybe interbreeding will execute this problem like the difficult sociopath it is.
It’s odd that under segregation, some black communities did far better than any has since, in terms of basic social metrics. I think the biggest enemies of black America are good-intentioned color blind liberals. Conservatives and racists are like big rocks: Easy to step around because you can see them. Happy liberals who think they know better than everyone are actually seditious bad guys. They’re also usually True Believers, which makes them deadly dangerous.
Like my father, a white racist can be torn from ideas into (almost but not quite) voting for Obama by two half-black nieces. There’s hope in that.
But a liberal on an ideological bender can steamroll over both reality and everyone in Ideological vicinity.
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I think your honesty and candour are interesting and I guess your POV is that of many people in that we ALL have our prejudices built on experiences, fear, misinformation etc
And sometimes legitimate experiences. Anyone who isn’t nervous around 2-10 young black men, especially if a couple of teenage girls are with them egging them on, is a bald-faced liar and I’ll stand there and tell them to their face. In some cases, this is a useful survival reaction, even if racist. On the other hand, this is also situational and cultural.
But, it’s HOW we choose to perpetuate them or even IF we decide to or whether we are able to rationalise these thoughts/feelings in our own minds, come to terms with them and ensure that they dont become a barrier in terms of our day to day existence.
This is how I feel. I meet a pretty black woman in the bank, I have two reactions: Can I hit on her (not so much now, but in general) and what’s her story, the only black woman in an all white-Asian bank. Everything else may be there, but next to “Can I hit on her?” is pretty much the one that crowds out everything else. If I meet a well-spoken black guy in a suit, my hackles don’t get up. But I’ve got lots of crime stereotypes built into my perception of America.
Maybe, just maybe, she met and fell in love with this guy. In fact, it sounds as though she is besotted with him.
This is certainly true, but she also had a point to prove and is not as racially blind as she’d like to believe. If her husband was white, she’d never behave in the same manner. She has an air of moral superiority for having married a black man: She Is Better Than Others For Crossing The Line. I’ve known her all her life.
I wonder if it is YOU that was the one who was most shocked and needed to re-adjust himself.
You don’t know me, so this is a reasonable supposition. What can I say: just, not the case in this situation. My sister is a sanctimonious princess. Her husband is who he is, but there are times when his ineffable Blackness seems more important to her. In fact, I suspect it means less to me than it does to her.
I think in relationships like this, you need to be hyper-conscious of your motivations to avoid having race get into it. That said, he loves her. She loves him, too; or something. They’ve been married for 11 years, so who knows.
Maybe, unwittingly, there was a teensy weensy part of you that lost respect for your sister when she took up with BM –
Bemused, but I had stepped out and married a Jew (and then divorced). My mother was the one who was in tears. Welcome to America.
this is not an uncommon thing amongst WM or other men with siblings in IRR for that matter.
True. Other people, possibly true. But not me, mostly.
I only say this because you refer to your strained relationship over the years and seemingly ambivalent stance towards her in the now that you allude to.
My strained relationship was strained in highschool. The woman is a sanctimonious, prissy bitch. She’s got great qualities. But we’ve never gotten along. Her husband, however, is a great guy. I once entertained making my mother weep tears of despair by dating his sister, who is not unattractive, but that was too bizarre to do for more than 3 seconds.
Also, if your mum is making objectionable comments, i’m not surprised your sister is seeing racism lurking round every corner.
But she’s the kind of person that has Allied Herself With The Oppressed And Is An Honorary Member. It drives me nuts. Her husband has to put the brakes on her constant quest to find racism and impute it in literally everything.
He, for example, is an actual Black Man. I’m sure he’ll see racism when it happens and be properly pissed off on his kids’ behalf. But my sister comes to street fights with nuclear weapons, and she sets herself up on the battlefield the night before. And if nobody shows up to fight her, you can see her itching for a fight.
That’s the kind of attitude that sickens me. Some teacher tells him his daughter is, well, you know, maybe not X college material, he’ll judge the comment and respond accordingly, and if there’s a hint of patronizing racism, I know he’ll see to it. My sister will make sure to raise the issue at the beginning of the school year in some snide, “I’m watching you and I Know Because I Married A Black Man So Don’t Try To Fool Me” way.
I find beer and losing the women for a while helps ease the passage of such things.
On the other hand, my two nieces have been browbeaten at school for being too white, often aggressively so, and since going to an all-Asian/White private school, are condescended to by just a couple of teachers and sniffed at and condescended to by almost al lof the Asian kids; the white kids walk tippy-toe around them
I have to say here that this is the only thing that I have often found concerning about mixed race children in this type of relationship where there seems to be little input from the father in explaining and putting into perspective the childs racial diversity. It is natural for children to feel a lot of uncertainty in terms of who they are amongst their peers but, equally I feel it is important for the parents to ensure that a child does know ‘who’ they are, even if at the time it is discomfiting.
I really think my BIL should be much more proactive in this, but they’re his kids and it’s not my business. I was disappointed to have the older one come up and tell me once that she doesn’t think she’d black.
It’s fine if she’s thought about it and she thinks her cultural identity is X or Y, but like Nazis and Jews, just because you don’t think you’re One Of Them doesn’t mean other people won’t think so.
She likes dinosaurs and rocks and bugs; especially bugs. I wish she’d think more about bugs and stuff like that and less about what the girls are saying at school.
I’ve found that there’s a special vicious quality to female cruelty that plays out on the playground.
I have nothing to say to her about being black. Just hang tough. People are shitty a lot of the time. Be proud of your dad and your mom and yourself, think about important things and let jerks be jerks on their own time. Make space for yourself.
We all have to do this regardless, it’s just a little more confusing for her.
I’m the irresponsible uncle. I get to come in, tell great stories about weird places and give presents and have beer with Dad and sometimes Grandpa.
What do I know.
I find myself trying to get racially informative stuff for her to read. It’s surprisingly hard to get race-neutral books for kids that don’t read like sickening treacle. And it stuns me how stereotyped blacks are in media; but not in a bad way. Apparently, all black boys are geeky computer nerds; black girls are always the smartest in the room, white girls always hang out with the tall black guy and white guys are afterthoughts. This “progressive” model is as artificial as anything out of the 1920’s.
All in all, I have to say, American society disappoints me.
I tell you: the answer is beer. Or fucking. Possibly both.
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Reality Check
Other races have a problem with black people, and black people have a problem with themselves. This is the reality of life on this planet, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. The white-female issue is an example of what i’m talking about. A race of women who are not black by birth, thinking they can take the place of real blackwomen by being with blackmen. However, this issue is not just about whitewomen. Replace them with asian and native-american women, and the same bs takes place. Other women have beef with blackwomen because they want access to blackmen. That’s what all this nonsense is about. We argue with each other over irrelevant crap that doesn’t matter anyway. As blackmen, we’re wasting a lot of time and energy on this planet trying to piss-off other men when it’s not necessary. We know what we bring to the table, we know we can have their women if we want them, What are we trying to prove at the end of the day? Blackwomen deserve better from us as men. We think we can piss on the hearts of blackwomen, and think that there are no consequences for our actions? Come on brothas, What are we doing to our people?
Tyrone
Black Eros
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@Gorbachev
I’ve found that there’s a special vicious quality to female cruelty that plays out on the playground.
I can definately agree with this. If you hang around long enough on this blog you will see that this cuts deep and can be detrimental in terms of enabling a BW to feel reasonably well adjusted and good about herself. For many, it can and does work its way out in the long run but for others, the rawness remains for a long time.
I have nothing to say to her about being black. Just hang tough. People are shitty a lot of the time. Be proud of your dad and your mom and yourself, think about important things and let jerks be jerks on their own time. Make space for yourself.
Its a start certainly. It does become hard when you are bombarded with misinformation about yourself/your people that gets perpetuated as the ‘truth’. It becomes a vicious circle,where you think ‘do I rail against this and show everyone otherwise or do I just get on and do my own thing and appear for all intents and purposes like I dont care about the struggle that others like me are going through’ – ‘is this going to help my children in the long run as they will be inevitablly be a by-product of this too….’
All in all, I have to say, American society disappoints me
Many commenters on here would probably share your sentiments for various reasons. I’m not from the US but reading some of the comments and posts on this blog, unfortunately at times, it is unsurprising.
I tell you: the answer is beer. Or fucking. Possibly both.
Well, whatever makes you happy 🙂 . I cant hep thinking regardless of whether we try to submerge ourselves and indulge that reality still comes and bites us on the ass when we least expect it….
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@Gorbachev
So Gorbachev; why the dislike of liberals? It seems like your point of view is more or less theirs.
I mean; what exactly do they believe in that you don’t?
Back in the day; some black people may have been doing better but nowadays 3/4ths of the black population is middle class, on a whole they are doing significantly better than they used to.
And the biggest enemies are color-blind liberals?
Not conservative republicans that even today either maintain or try to set up policies both socially and legally to attack the black population?
I’m also not sure if using a jew as an example of stepping out counts as towards black people; while jews are on the lower end of the white scale its kind of like saying I can’t be racist because I married an italian.
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Gorbachev, is Thordaddy your father? He did say he had four kids.
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Hm … Hm, … I don’t know who thordaddy is.
On liberals – I say they’re dangerous only because when these particular white people are enemies, it’s hard to know they are. Racists in power never hide the fact well; you can smell them. Nobody needs to be warned abut them.
Liberals with agendas, and who know, say, better than anyone else how to fix urban America – these guys have Agendas. They’re experts at fooling themselves, so they fool everyone else, too.
The last thing I want is segregation. But like Abagond, I think enforcing colorblindness on everyone is insane.It’s Pollyana thinking at best, disingenuous deception at worst.
That’s all.
I never claimed not to be racist; I’m just trying to point out that there’s a lot of nuance out there, and that this is significant.
And on beer and sex – I meant, drink it, and give it 500 years. Beer and sex may just eliminate this problem for us.
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@gorbachev:
Aaah, the white liberals… The true enemy. Why not the Left, Gorba? Funny that you call yourself Gorbachev, the last communist leader of the old USSR, who sent in the tanks when Baltic republics were struggling for their independence.
And the liberals have “agendas”? Not the right wing conservatives? Right? Like, banning some litterature, some music and arts, some people they don’t like etc.? Like spying on their fellow citizen etc.?
Yes, there might be some who talk about “color blindness”, but for me while I see color of the skin, I refuse to let that define the person. See? I don’t think you are a “one of them” even when you are white and like to call yourself after the last communist leader of Russia.
I know it is hard to believe that there could be a humanbeing who does not want to think his fellow humanbeings as based on their ethnicity or color of their skin, who does not accept that there are separate races in biological sense, who refuses knowingly to up hold the race based classification of ANY humanbeings etc. but here I am.
I know there are two faced “liberals”, do gooders for their own sake, BUT it seems funny that those people should be deemed more dangerous than out right racists and nazis etc. If we follow that logic to its logical end, then the Norwegian massmurderer Breivik is a pretty good guy because he was open about his political ideas and did not tell lies to the police but openly stated that yes, he killed 77 kids because he toughed it was a right thing to do. According to that logic, he is a good guy because he is, well, honest. Right?
The world is not black and/or white, it is everything in between and black and white. When somebody is openly saying that he/she is for color blindness and does not up hold that too well, for what ever reason, that person at least said that out loud. I think that is better than openly saying: “I hate blacks” or “I think enforcing colorblindness on everyone is insane”. For what do we do in the fight against racism? That what this is all about.
Do we let the status quo to stay? Do we support attempts to do it away, or do we want the recognition for race based system of classification of humanbeings? Do we, in our very own lives, support the ideology which separates us from our fellow men based solely on the color of their skin? Or do we do our best to bring that ideology down?
Do I say: “I see you are not white and therefore you are one of Them”, or do I say: “You are just you, as you are”? Do I spend my days wondering how to classify a person by his/her race, its level of mix, how many drops of this and that blood there might be, or do I accept that person as she/he is? I prefer that last option.
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@ Gorbachev
I have an Open Thread. The link to it is at the top of each page. Go there if you want to talk about random stuff. I do not see what ranting about liberals has to do with this post. I am deleting all future comments here about it.
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V4–
S Asian Indians like to say they’re Caucasian. It’s probably the result of the heritage of British colonialism being so important to their current culture.
They partly are, via Afghan and Iranian admixture mostly. More so in the north. However Indians are also partly the descendants of beach combing out of Africa migrants who later became SE Asians and Australian Aboriginies. There is also a back flow of SE and E Asian strains in the NE of India and Bangladesh, Razib Khan of GNXP reports, from his extensive reading of the genetics literature.
That’s mostly a Jewish meme. It’s not literally true except for probably a few. The Irish, Italians and Jews before something like the start of WWII weren’t considered “true” or core Americans, but rather ethnic Americans. However they were always considered white by all but a small minority of wasps and Germanic Americans.
The addition of Finns to that list is weird. Americans rarely think about Finns. We have very few of them in this country. Well some think of Finns through Nokia, and you are known for your saunas. You must be Finnish, along with Sam.
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@Doug1
I might be part finnish, got some scandinavian, german etc….in me, but I’m not specifically Finnish in a large percentage if I am and culturally I’m not aware of anything thats Finnish about me.
I suppose its possible that my family may have carried traits of it into even the modern day but nothing purposeful.
That aside, the irish, jewish, and Finns really weren’t considered white until 1908, a finnish guy in the US actually petitioned congress back then to get his people considered “white”.
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The majority of the white women who date & sleep with blacks are obese or very plain. It is natural for a woman to desire finding a partner. It seems likely that white men would not look twice at some of these women, though they are to blame when blacks give them the attention they crave. I believe that all white women need to be made aware of the pitfalls, although most already are. They are well aware of the downside in joining black society.
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@Tank
It seems likely that white men would not look twice at some of these women, though they are to blame when blacks give them the attention they crave.
There’s a saying you know, You dont look at the mantelpiece when you’re poking the fireplace lmao. Most men, regardless of race when they want a legover couldnt care less what the female looks like, all they know is they have an itch that needs scratching. I wonder why WM always have to make out that it is ONLY the dregs of White female society that would go with BM.
I believe that all white women need to be made aware of the pitfalls, although most already are
What are these pitfalls you speak of? The fact that WM will reject these WW for having been with a BM because in many cases, they feel they can’t top the sexual prowess of said BM? Is that what you mean?
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^
Amendment
The fact that some WM will reject these WW for having been with a BM because in many cases, they feel they can’t top the sexual prowess of said BM? Is that what you mean?
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as far as im concern its just sicking and alot of us black women condone this behavior from some of these black men. they may be famous but i don’t support them in anyway. (lil wayne, tiger woods etc.)treat people how they treat you. they are very exclusive in the type of women they date. that mean you clearly don’t like me. a real men like all women and if they are black men and they don’t like black women then they don’t like themselves. please men are hunters and it doesn’t matter where they live if they were into blackwomen they will find black women to date, marry etc. (usher,obama) etc. you rarely see white men marrying outside their race even if they live in africa.
alot of black women haven’t realize this yet especially darkskin sistas. its a war . you got to fight back.fight for your respect .make noise about it.you got to set high standards for yourself, you got to educate alot of these brothers. they are living in a white men reality. white men are their idols and so is white women.
for us black women its a different affect,in slavery days white men had to tell white women that you was ugly and undesirable to calm her emotions.
he could tell her he find you to be exoctic,he like your coarse hair, your skin tone, your vulumptuos features and figure.alot of these other races of men are intmidated by you because you don’t give them the time a day,or maybe they feel they cannot satisfy you because of the well endowed black men. all of this hate for black women manifest from the history of this country and because we stick mostly to black men. the world of men desire white women because they market them in all areas of life. what if blackwomen was potrayed like that? they have the miss attitude hoodrat,aunt jemima,the same characters for decades.
as a black women i realize that im a fortunate because i’m rare. i find that all kinds of men like me.because how i carry myself. a black guy told me you represent for the sistas. one of the only black female working in a prodominently hispanic and white environment. the females hate that a black female gets alot of attention . because black women is suppose to be (unattractive and ugly right). i pass a interacial couple and the black guy was checking me out and he seemed embarrassed.anyway my point is not every black women is pretty or gorgeous but when we come hot we hot and i think naturally men are attracted to beautifull women. racism is instilled in alot of blackmen in the western world to think white women or lighter complextion women is better. for some the darker women are fun to sleep with. but not to carry home.you have to be a lighter complextion. slave mentality. its up to you to prove them wrong. stop being silent ,say or do something,they are stepping on us. black men, white america etc until we address these issues. take it to hollywood.
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@medium
Satanforce cosigns this message.
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White women are dogs….they marry anything to achieve financial gain. White American men, on the otherhand, are momma’s boyz with no backbone always chasing down the Orientals because these “men” believe they are “submissive”. In actuality, the Orientals are far more aggressive than the white women and the cultural conflict causes major problems for these wimpy men.
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Due to the large number of comments i have not been able to read all the post
however the post and most comments i have been able to read seem to indicate that black/african american males choose white females for various reasons stated in the post.
I am an african american male ,while i have not(nor desire to serve in the miltary)
i also do not have a a formal university education,however i often find that unless i am located directly in an african american comunity the area am in often has few to any african americans.
That said it has been and continues to be my experience that 9 out 10 if not 10 out 10 of the pairings between a aa male and wf it is the choice of the wf.
My personal experience is almost always white females will persistently try to approach me or attract my attention.
Regardless of my disposition – physically , socially and psychologically.
rarely do aaf’s approach me or attract my attention and never presist if i show any hint of disinterest or aynoace (because i’m in a bad mood,feel inadequate and insecure etc).
Whereas wf’s regularly and reliably approach me or try to attract my attention and will presist regardless sometimes of even hostile outbrusts.
I have never been with a wf and while there are some who are attractive most are not to me.
the appearace of the wf is distorted by overvaluation of them and the undervaluing of other groups
esp aaf’s.
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@Abagond
”Among married black men in 2010, one in 12 had a white wife”
Wow,I can’t believe that. I heard that the same one in twelve people in America are in interracial relationships. In my stupid small, redneck, racist town, you can’t tell. Most people stick to their own race except for the Black boys.And there are a lot of Black men out there like you who prefer Black women.
@Telcomcorp
Glad to hear your opinion
@Medium
I love your opinions. You are so correct.
@Peanut
I love your opinion and yes, I did read your post from your blog.I loved it!
Honestly I have been trying to find this post for a while now because recently I was rejected by my crush. he is Black and he said that he doesn’t like BlacK girls like me. It really upsetted me. What does a White woman have that a Black woman doesn’t have? I am still upset by this. And what type of Black guy says that he doesn’t like Black girls? So sillly. And I am the same complexion as he is too!
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@Peanut, there are many more of us that are with you than against you. Your criticisms and observations are valid, the truth is it’s own defense. This a problem with roots more complicated and deeper in America’s psyche than most are honest enough to admit. Do not internalize this issue, I know it hurts, but as many have stated, there are far more brothers who have it together, but it is time they became more vocal in criticizing this form of disrespect. Here is a post on Frederick Douglass who I greatly admire as a abolitionist, supporter of equal rights for women and pan africanist(Haiti), but he also participated in disrespect to his unfailingly loyal black wife, once he was given access to white women, some of these same women who abhorrently were racist. His acceptance of this racism was self serving and cowardly then as it is now when black men do it. Of course consenting adults have the right to their ‘choice’ however it is very naive and I would even say disingenuous to suggest that such choice involving race in countries where colonialism was a factor are not shaped by social mores based on racial hierarchies and ruling class aesthetics.
“Douglass’s British hosts noticed the almost idolatrous attention women paid to him, and worried about its consequences once he returned home. John Estlin, a Bristol surgeon and active antislavery man, wrote to an American colleague: “You can hardly imagine how he [Douglass] is noticed—petted I may say—by the ladies. Some of them really a little exceed the bounds of propriety, or delicacy, as far as appearances are concerned; yet F.D.’s conduct is most guardedly correct, judicious and decorous…My fear is that often associating so much with white women of education & refined taste & manner, he will feel a ‘craving void’ when he returns to his own family.”[123]
Out of respect for Douglass’s character, scholars have traditionally underestimated the full depth of that “craving void.” But the recent analysis of the letters of the German journalist Ottilie Assing demonstrates that the temptation to “pet” back was stronger than Douglass’s judicious and guarded conduct would suggest. Indeed, the temptation would ultimately overpower him: the letters reveal that Douglass and Assing were involved in a long, passionate affair from 1856 to 1881. As Assing told her sister, the two were “united in a deeper love than many who were married.” Indeed, the most striking element of these letters is the jealous contempt exhibited by Assing toward Anna, who remained Douglass’ devoted wife until her death in 1882. Assing, white, well-educated and well-bred, spoke of Anna as a “stupid old hag,” and “an unknowledgeable and illiterate creature” who could never appreciate Douglass’s brilliance and was thus an unworthy spouse. Even more disturbing is the sense that Douglass participated in, or at least condoned, this contempt; the two privately referred to Anna as “the Border-State.”[124]
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Considering the fact that most black men marry and start civil unions with black women, this topic never ceases to amaze me:
Consider these things from my personal experience, I’m only 28 so you don’t have to believe and besides what does a black woman married to a black know:
1. My husband completed both his graduate degrees in Utah (one of the whitest states in America meaning beautiful white women galore?) yet somehow he was married to not one but TWO black women before me.
2. Did he have the chance to date white women. . .? of course, but he left Utah after grad school, went back to Oklahoma and married his first black wife. Talk about demographics, but that ended in divorce
3. After that marriage, he enrolled in another all white place (University Wisconsin-Madison) got his doctorate and there, moved to teach at the University of Kansas (overwhelmingly white) and met and married another black woman! Didn’t work so on to the white wimmins right? Not so fast. . .
4. Somehow we meet (don’t ask) and wanted to make it work. Once I finished my degree he drug me (literally) to Minnesota (another white place with the exception of Native Americans) and for some reason, the black university men there kept asking us to help them find decent black girls to date. Of course we couldn’t because there are not many in those parts.
Those guys really wanted to be with other black people including black women and contrary to popular belief, non of these guys were denying their blackness or the attraction they felt towards black women simply because they were surrounded by white women. I think in a lot of cases, when blacks are in overwhelmingly white places, they have an innate desire to seek out other blacks even if their search is futile. Just my take.
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It’s funny that the biggest complainers about this union in America are black american women (the BWE being the loudest) and white american men (the crybaby racists!)
They love to go on about black american men only seem to date fat, plain or ugly white women. Which of course begs the question. Why are they causing such a ruckus over it?
I’ll tell you why. It’s simple. Black american men are getting are dating some hot white american women and those two groups that I’ve mentioned don’t like it.
Sucks to be a BWE and a White racist, huh!?
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What the hell is a “BWE”? That’s only thing that piqued my interest in that sweepingly generalized little diatribe.
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I guess Agabond must be a Blackwoman. I’m new here so forgive me not knowing but I’ve seen so many ads here about Blackmen doing wrong to blackwomen. Lol. There’s pain on both sides!
As a studied man I’ve come to learn long ago that rape destroys a woman’s soul. Rape was used as a war weapon to conquer your enemy by raping all his women. Black women have been raped and tortured by whitemen for centuries in order break her down i.e Willie Lynch Papers. Willie Lynch directed his slave making tactics at the African female not the male. Sure men were sexually abused throughout slavery both men don’t give birth to children. Children who are born through a woman that was raped and torture began their life in the womb in fear of the white slave master. Slavery did a number on Blackwomen.
Black women have very severe low self esteem. They don’t believe they are beautiful and when they are they believer it too much with arrogance. But arrogance is that the root of why Blackwomen pass over blackmen who are blue collar workers for drugdealers, pimps and ballplayer celebrities. Watching this coming up alot of brothers when they make as rich celebrities pay back blackwomen in kind by marrying whitewomen. Lol. It’s not funny however but karma does seem to come back exactly how its sent out.
Blackwomen need to seriously heal because they are crazy. Not in a bad kind of crazy but the kind of crazy that keeps you from seeing how to fix what’s wrong with you and not even want to talk about it. I tell my 15 yr son who is an honorable student to keep his grades up so when he gets to a higher level he can have greater options than blackwomen.
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By the age of 14 I avoided boys…I had been raped by a boy (white) that I had a schoolgirl crush on for a long time, another boy (white), who was a family friend, almost destroyed my kidneys after kicking me numerous times in the street in front of my house, as I tried to get away from him. Once I was safely in my house I called my boyfriend (white) crying hysterically and instead of offering comfort he sat there silent and then started asking me what I did to provoke it. Another boy (white) tried to run over me with his car several times, as I tried to run home, because I told him I did not want to date him. So I was too afraid to be with boys…until….When I was 16, I was working at a fast food restaurant in the next town over and one day a boy (black) came in and made me laugh. He kept coming back (at that time I did not know he was coming to see me), and every time he would always find a way to make me laugh….then one day he brought me a teddy bear and then the next week he brought me roses. At no point had he asked me to date him…I was so shocked that a boy could actually be nice and thoughtful. After that he came in one day and handed me a note, I know it sounds childish but we were children lol, In the note he said how beautiful my eyes and my smile were and that he would like to take me on a date. I was hooked, I went on a date (chaperoned by his mother) and we had so much fun after that…we studied together, went to games, youth groups and many other fun things until one day his best friend (white boy) called me and said that my boyfriend had done something (disgusting so I won’t post it) to another girl at a game they went to. I believed him for stupid reasons…I thought that his best friend would never lie about something like that. Well, weeks later after I broke up with him his mother called me and told me how broken up he was and that his “best friend” was only trying to break us up because he was jealous and he had done things like that before. I don’t know what his reasons were because I never saw that boy again. But I have always wondered if it was because he did not like BB and WG dating.
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@John Washington
Do you think that because you are black that you have the right to degrade black women? I do not deny that slavery and white people have directly affected black women’s self esteem…..but you need to add yourself to that list! There is no possible rational defense that you can use to justify your degrading, self-righteous, hateful words. You laugh and joke about it as if it was nothing. It sounds like you have some deep rooted issues that you need to deal with before you go expressing your views on here.
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@Washington
Would you like fries with that rhetoric?
Its so important for black women to read about the full history of Black Women in the United States because you’re account is only meant to paint the picture of “the victim who would become the villain”. That is inaccurate and irresponsible. Its probably why the milestones, accomplishments, and social adaptions of black women in the United States during slavery, post slavery, and pre-Black Power is omitted from the black cultural record. The secrets out about Willie Lynch so you’ll need another scapegoat for your sexist commentary.
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Face, meet wall.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070814182601/http://www.jelanicobb.com/portfolio/willie_lynch_is_dead.html
It seems that I’ll have to do a deconstruction of BlackMenVent soon. But, why would you want the type of woman that seeks out delinquents? You may say that all the good black women are seeking out these types, but where are they? Where all these pictures, Facebook links, or censys statitics taht professional , educated black women are with criminals? Pleasse , no BMV cartoons, hard data or credible anecdotal data sir.
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should read:
but where are they? Where all these pictures, Youtube videos, Facebook pages, television news reports or census statistics that show professional , educated black women with there criminal boyfriends? Pleasse , no BMV cartoons, hard data or credible anecdotal data sir.
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There are few sisters here with the courage to admit that their peers fall victim to chasing flashy cars, shopping sprees and money. You look at the spendng patterns of African Americans this can be attested that this is what we do. As since all cultures everywhere are centered around the women then it’s only obvious that Blackwomen socially reinforced this as the type of enviroment they want to be living in.
Alot of women are foolish and you like argue with the truth. If you are so full of yourselves then why be bothered White Society considering you least attractive? You have to love yourself. There are tribes around the world with long necks and crazy looking features but the women in that tribe will only marry those men and the men will only marry those women. Why? Because they love themselves and each other.
White people are a weaker race genetically that Blacks and that’s not racists that’s just fact. Many White scholars and scientists have said the very same thing that Whites are genetically weaker. But no you want to talk all day about the ignorant whites who promote themselve as superiors. Why not let these fools continue on and you on about loving yourself. African Americans spend too much time studying, talking about and crying about racism.
Many of you are still struggling with the fact Jesus was Black and you’re trying to knock down the White Jesus. Jesus was Black and that’s a fact but do you also know the Hebrews were also Black? And it was the Hebrew people who killed this blackman named Jesus? Did you know that? You see we are still struggling with the same issues our ancestors struggled with and that is we betray our own kind who try to heal us and lift us up. When don’t learn from history you repeat it over and over again that’s called karma.
I don’t make fun nor talk down to people. I just try to give you the information you will need to make better decisions about life. It’s very wrong to accurse someone of doing something wrong when they are innocent. I am a loving man but I’m not weak. I will not engage back and forth hurtful games just to get my point over to people who I could never convince.
Black women think themselves to be too independent and are wearing away what freedom means. Freedom is not free and neither is living. Blackmen are just outright lazy many of them and lack discipline. Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and Booker T Washington were all about discipline and changing our bleak circumstances around. They were cut down by some of our own people. These fake freedom fighters who you can always tell because they keep your anger directed at whites. Putting down Blackmen who date whitewomen is a prime example of directing the focus away from solving our problems internally which is the only way to solve our problems.
Blackmen do need to step their game up because if the Whitemen are denying you jobs and giving to the Blackwomen then you need to get with your other brothers and pull your resources like other minorities men do. Gang up whitemen economically and fight back hard. This is revolution. Blackwomen need to stand behind their blackmen and give up this diva deliah character wanting to live high on the hog when our community is dying all over America. The children bring in this world will continue to suffer sister without a good future. We all need to stick to the revolution, get rid of the disquised traitors amongst and who posing as freedom fighters.
We can find unity with Whites who are for human rights. We can rise like China did. The coming of the Black Messiah is upon us. It isn’t Barrack Obama. This man will be born of a blackwoman. This child could around be here right now. We are living in the days when a strong Black leader will rise up and he will need a wife. Do you think the whiteman doesn’t know this? That’s why he strives to keep us squabbling with each other over petty issues. They kill our young men because every Blackman that is killed that could be a black messiah, a fearless leader that will unite all our people. My people don’t think unity won’t have a price. There will be bloodshed for our unity because the forces that oppose us more lie within our own houses.
And to those of you who misundestand me and those of you who purposively try to label as self hating. You are wicked fools some of you and know karma will come back on you! Our women Blackwomen are raped and tortured for 100s of years and that’s not easy to get over. It has never been properly healed but we don’t have time to fix every leak when the boat is sinking. We need unity first and then fix stop the boat from sinking. Peace.
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White people are a weaker race genetically that Blacks and that’s not racists that’s just fact.
But in another thread you posted that you are encouraging your son to only date and marry white women.
You can’t overcome racism by partaking in it.
Cheers! 🙂
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Our women Blackwomen are raped and tortured for 100s of years and that’s not easy to get over.
You also stated in another thread; well the same actually, that black women are very insecure and that, well, they are not as good as white women and other WOC. So. . . which is it? Are you really for or against the black family? Just asking.
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Experience affects people’s perceptions immensely. Consider this example: I am an educated (med school grad) black male who grew up in the inner city (about 5 miles west of NYC).As a teenager and throughout my early college years it appeared as if black women always let me down in a very vitriolic manner when I approached them (nervously and very shyly, but never disrespectfully). Over time I just realized that it was part of the “game”. But still it never made any sense to me why, for the most part, women of other races were generally more kind in their rebukes, whereas SOME black women felt the need to be nasty. I never gave up faith on black women, and now (at age 26) I feel like I understand them a lot more, and have realized that they are women, just like any other woman on earth, however some have not learned how to speak to men in a cordial manner when they are not sexually interested. I would also say that some of them have “unreal” expectations for Mr. Right (which is okay), and find themselves not trying to “go out of the box”, if you will, to date a man (whether he is black or white) that does not fit their “prototype”. As a result, many of them complain of not finding professional black men to date, but dozens of my black friends and I (all professionals: doctors, lawyers, engineers,Ivy league grads…you name it- from various socioeconomic backgrounds) would attest to the “fact” that sometimes approaching these women is like playing Russian Roulette, because you never know whether or not you are going to be greeted with a nasty attitude. This is why it pains me to see several scholarly articles over the past few years (including a notorious NY Times editorial) claiming that there are not enough “good” (educated/professional) black men. They are out there! We ALL have to realize that it takes two to tango, so black women and black men both need to reevaluate our respect for ourselves and the way that we approach and speak to each other. I do not see any feasible reason why a woman should be upset when a man approaches in an amenable, gentleman-like manner. I mean, we are men, right. The last time I checked our urges for sex and companionship are natural and normal, so it only makes sense that we would be attracted to you. Yes, some black men (namely the uneducated ones from the bad/inner city neighborhoods) are very disrespectful in their approach. Heck, some even go as far as to touch a woman they do not even know in an attempt to court her. But that is not all. And another shocking trend that I have noticed is that a lot of educated black women appear to go for the uneducated black man. Many of my female black cohorts have explained that most of these men have more charisma, confidence, and “swag” than the educated black man. Most of these same women complain that they cannot find marriageable black men, and tend to judge the educated black men based on their observations of the non-educated black men. If you date trash, you will end up getting trash results. You also have to understand that the attraction to the uneducated black man may be connected to the lust for the “bad boy”. These same women fail to consider that we (educated black men) have seen the negative effects of the “bad boy”/”hood” black culture. Heck, some of us even grew up in those same neighborhoods, and are just as “tough”. We just made wiser decisions. In closing I’d say this: society is more and more accepting of interracial couples. Although, I have continued to court black women and seek out those opportunities, there are many other professional black men (some of whom I know and have had extensive convos with) who are no longer willing to try to court black women, and instead choose to date outside of their race. Their usual motivation is that they “cannot deal with the bitch-like attitude”. I usually try to tell them that it is not “ALL” black women who act this way, but apparently ENOUGH do, so it imposes a negative coloring on all black women, and most important of all, it destroys many excellent possibilities for black love. So if you are a black man, and you are reading this, think about the pick-up lines that you use, and the way you approach black women (and all women period). And if you are a black woman who is interested in dating black men, think about the energy that you put out there, and what you can do to assuage the situation. It shouldn’t be this hard folks!
P.S.
Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to be very thorough. And I apologize if I offended anyone, in any way, shape, or form. These comments reflect my views, opinions, and experiences, and are not necessarily representative of the opinions of black men throughout the world.
Peace & Love,
Kev
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This is why it pains me to see several scholarly articles over the past few years (including a notorious NY Times editorial) claiming that there are not enough “good” (educated/professional) black men. They are out there!
Good you said it. As a young black woman i have been saying this for years. I was not even out of high school when the first of a string of professonial and upright black men begun approaching me. From then on, i knew i would never have trouble with black men. I married one a year before i finished undergrad.
I usually try to tell them that it is not “ALL” black women who act this way,
I would also encourage you to go a step further and tell them that ANY woman of ANY color and background can have a “bitch attitude”. Yes there are those black women who are hard to get on with, do not exhibit proper etiquette and are not into being feminine, but after working around different women, i can attest that our white, Asian and black/white Hispanic Sisters also come with baggage and attitude. This is not unique to black women. Just like i tell my younger female cousins–white men can be deadbets, second and third time offenders and abusers. Stop looking at them as inherently better than black men and any other man just because they are “white”.
It shouldn’t be this hard folks!
Bingo! Honestly, its not.
Cheers! 🙂
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@Phoebeprunelle
Well Said! 🙂
I have been around quite a few girls and women (white and black) that were taught by their mothers that it isn’t about love it is about the paycheck! I couldn’t believe they could tell their daughters this. I don’t know how often this happens in the rest of the world…but it is just wrong…but it sheds a little light on the increase of divorce rates.
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^@Michelle
That is terrible–but it seems as though these are the very women who have no problem getting men of any color to committ to them. Then when they head for splitsville–every other upright woman may have to go through numerous screen tests and mental background checks before we are pre approved at decent wives. LOL!
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If professional blackmen are seeing what the blue collar blackmen are seeing then its apparently some fire where there’s alot of smoke.
Some of you see only Black and White it’ like you have a checker board implanted in your brains.But life isn’t checkers it’s chess meaning it’s much more dynamic and has more angles.
Some of you are liars on here!
I didn’t tell my son not to date Blackwomen to stick with educaton, keep money in his hands and better is options so he is not limited to Blackwomen from American origins of slavery. Slavery has done a number on us mentally as a people.
I didn’t ever say I am a racist its that Blacks are superior genetically and should be using that to our advantages instead of using excuses which don’t work.
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@John Washington
Sure it is not all about color. It is good to be aware of other opinions and attitudes though. This is the only way we grow and evolve as humans. No one said it is only a “black” and “white” thing. And I do not think that most of the black women who have commented on here are “liars on here!” as you intimated earlier. But, it is men like yourself who continue to deride them and put them down. You seem as if you are a sane man, so why do you need to disrespect in order to get your point across!/? And by the way, all of this white supremacy versus black supremacy (you referenced “superior genetically” is exactly the type of talk that keeps people of different races and ethnicities apart. Furthermore, if you are really conscious about teaching your son, in addition to telling him to keep his options open, I would also tell him to refrain from using some of the same racially-fueled thinking that you eschew in your post. And I am confused as to what you meant when you said: “I didn’t ever say I am a racist its that Blacks are superior genetically and should be using that to our advantages instead of using excuses which don’t work.”? How does this “genetic advantage” contribute to black-on-black social reform? I do tend to agree that many blacks are unaware of the rich history of blacks in the world (Ancient Egypt is just one example), but I will not agree that all blacks are making “excuses”. I believe that the views expressed here by myself, other black women, and other people, period, are more geared towards finding a solution, and not necessarily “excuse”-making (as you intimated earlier). There is nothing wrong with some sociopolitical discussions. It makes the entire world (not just the black world lol) better. And there is nothing wrong with the men out here that are attracted to black women more than any other type. It’s not always “black” and “white” (as you pointed out earlier). I, and many other black men, are attracted to ALL women, not just black women. For me though, I am more attracted to black women, and that is why I still support them (whether or not they agree with my view on the ills of this topic 🙂 ) Now if there just so happens to be a non-black woman that captures my attention, I’d marry her too. It is just that I am attracted to black women more, just like some of the black women on this post are more attracted to black men than any other….just like some white (and other non-black women) are more attracted to white men (and men of their own race/ethnicity). There is nothing wrong with preference. These biological preferences are what drive human evolution. And, please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears as if you think that black people who prefer to date black people are closed-minded. Again, there is nothing wrong with this…it’s a personal preference, and a personal choice. Lastly, as many women have already indicated here, not “ALL” women act this way, and are driven by economic pursuits in their relationships (as you indicated earlier). Sure, some of them may lie, when it comes to confronting their own demons and actions, but this is no reason to impose such a negative coloring on the situation. Get it, “coloring” hahaha
Peace and Love
(Black love, white love, mixed love, or whatever love is love to you)!
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There you go again accussing me when I’ve done nothing wrong. That’s evil. I didn’t say all of the women on here are liars or even women.I said some of you are liars taking my words and putting them in your lying mouths.
Now I will disregard the rest of what you wrote as you have no character so far for me to continue you should have saved your lies for last.
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@John Washington
I think I was very careful with my post, and I also considered the possibility that I may be wrong about you (“correct me if I am wrong…”). And you can disregard what I say, because people have differences of opinion. In closing, I am not about to turn this into a rant, but I fail to see how I have “no character”. It appears as if it is you, who has some type of ill-will or vendetta towards black women. I am just pointing out the obvious. Heck, I am off from work (I am a young, black, 26 year old radiologist, fresh out of residency), and I have some free time, so I tried to respond to your post because I was almost certain that you were going to receive a lot of responses that are very negative. And, the only reason I mentioned what I do for a living is because after you accused me of having “no character”, and calling me a “liar” I am almost certain that the next thing you would do is attack my level of education, etc. hahaha. You have a lot of hate in your blood buddy…I’ll continue to hope that you find some peace of mind (and that my children never meet any of your kin….I do not need them picking up your APPARENT hateful and disrespectful way of life) lolz.
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There you go again accussing me when you can’t explain with truth I have ill towards Blackwomen. You said I called the women all here liars and you knew before that was wrong. You did it to excite the others and turn them against me.That’s evil therefore shows your lack of character.
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@John,
I didn’t tell my son not to date Blackwomen to stick with educaton, keep money in his hands and better is options so he is not limited to Blackwomen from American origins of slavery
But your son is from American origins of slavery. Yeah?
John, look dude, you are kicking strawmen here. No one is lying on you and believe me, WE don’t hate you or have anything against you, but what you are saying is unfair to black women and black men! We are in the same boat–globally–okay.
What i take issue with is that fact that your posts seem to imply that because black women went through horrible, horrible enslavement and colonization, rape and mass genocide–through no fault of our own–mind you–that we not suitable for marriage and family? Black women are no better or worse than other women in this world.
Now i am in no fog. Black people–as a result of our last 400 some year plus history with whites-are in serious need of psychological healing. This is true! But that includes both black men and women! If you are going to help change the mindset of wayward Sisters, then you cannot take yourself out of the equation–because believe it or not, black men have succumbed to the dynamics of white imperialism–through no fault of their own.
Trust me, if your son follows your sound advice about staying in school to better himself, then he will have his pick of upright, young black women. I mean if that’s what you are concerned about.
Cheers! 🙂
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Look we are all Black American but will not rise and fall the same. The fate of your family will not be the fate of mine. That’s why we all have our different karmas and fates based upon our own individual actions.
Look we are a great people. We survive slavery and jim crow. We have invented many things. We built this country and fought to protect and expand it as an empire. We brought freedom to a land where everyone in it has freedom because of Black Americans.
We don’t have to go back 1000’s of years to find greatness nor live in the past. Greatness lies with us right now. My son will one day marry a young woman and it could be your daughter or granddaughter. But whomever he marries he will be carrying on the seed of Greatness.
Stop getting drunk on power some of you! You can’t stop the Blackmen who are marrying outside the race from doing so. This isn’t treachery. If you think that’s what treachery is then you are fools. As fools you should be thinking power will help you when you need wisdom.
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@John Washington
Okay, I apologize. You did say “some” and not “most” or “all”, but you still haven’t explained a number of your points (i.e., the correlation of your “genetically superior” argument, the “liars” part). I doubt that you will elaborate on the relevant issues, and you will probably still continue to attack my character and the character of other posters on here. I read one of your earlier posts, wherein you mentioned that “Alot of women are foolish and you like argue with the truth.”. I only asked you, why black people are not allowed to have a sexual preference? I do not see anything wrong with that. At the end of the day I think we are on the same page. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned “Blackmen do need to step their game up”. I think I indicated that before (in my first post). All I am trying to do is discuss and talk, and it appears you cannot do that in a respectable manner. It is OKAY if we disagree, but at the end of the I think we both look at the plight of black dating and it is sad (for those who have the black-on-black preference, of course). There is no need to call me “evil”, and “wicked”. As you mentioned earlier, this is what “they” want us to do, right. Hahaha, you are not stopping my sunshine buddy. I think most people on this forum would agree with me that my tone and the expression of my views have been presented in a very gentlemen-like manner. It is OKAY to disagree. But it is wrong and child-like to act like a toddler just because I am not in full agreement with you. I mean, why would I be? You spoke about black women getting more opportunities over black men. You ever think your negative attitude contributes to that? You ever think if and when white people see you talking like this (“genetic superiority”, etc.), it’ll make them more likely to want to hire a black man? No, it only makes it worse for young black men like myself, and black men generations down the line. I do not have a problem with your views. I just have a problem with the very negative and attacking nature of your posts. And if anyone with a sane and objective mind views your posts, they too will see that I did not try to ignite the fire. You came onto this post guns-blazing, so to speak. So it would not be a surprise to me if some people did label you as a “self-hater” (a term you used in one of your previous posts). You get what you put out. I hope you are married already, because I am not sure that many sane, professional black women would agree with the way you go about life. Your comments and even your put-downs are so religious in nature, so I am going to assume you are a church-going man. You think God supports your hate? You get what you put out. I am sure when you approach women they talk down to you because they can sense the hate coursing through your veins. I still apologize for having to attack you this way, but you continue to speak very negatively, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY you have not answered many of the relevant aforementioned questions that I (and perhaps some others) have posed to you. This is an online forum, so sure there will be some differences of opinion. If you cannot deal with that, and write respectful, thoughtful responses, then perhaps you should consider not posting at all. You are just here disrespecting women, straight up! Be a man, and accept when someone has a different belief or value system than you do. Good day sir!
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^@John,
Firstly, my children have not been born yet as i am not quite 30, so your grandson, may marry my granddaughter. Ok–point taken.
I am not upset or going against black men who are marrying non black women. That is all fine and well if the two people are happy and especially when they both are fighting for equality for ALL people. What more could a sane, reasonable human being ask for?
The problem i have with your posts is that it comes across like you are saying black men should not prefer black women if they so choose to. That somehow we are a bad option.
If you don’t already know, white women are not rushing to marry black men because well over 90% of them marry white men. Yes black men are far more likely to marry out than black women, but black men still overwhelmingly prefer black wives as they marry black women well over 90% of the time. And, did you know that 88% of black American men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives? This is akin to what Kevin is saying in his post–nothing more nothing.
If you were to ask a number of black men who prefer or are married to black women, they will probably tell you–if they are in they’re right minds–that they don’t hate or think white, Asian or white Hispanic women are unattractive as they are women too–but they just have a preference for black women. This could be due to a number of factors. If you grew up around mostly black girls as a black boy, you are more likely to develop your first attractions to them and vice versa. These things shape the way we relate to the opposite sex as adults. That is ALL John!
I am a black woman already married to a black man so i am not against white women who marry black men. Hell, we have the same tastes. Does this mean i have something against white men, or other men? No–i dated out a few times and i can pretty much tell you—dudes are dudes.
Cheers! 🙂
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I’m on the side of truth not Black people. We can’t have a revolution and it be immoral then our situation will look like Haitti. We are not the only ones fighting this battle against evil there are angels in heaven fighting demons and the ancestors are fighting as well. We can’t become power drunk trying force what is our preference on the world unto others.
There are social issues with Blackwomen it’s well talked about. Black women need to deal with those social issues.There are social issues with Black men and Black men need to deal with those issues. We can’t sit up in here and act like there’s no social issues affecting our community. If that were the case we wouldn’t be having this discussion about social issues. Solutions are not easy and they will come with much pain but we must deal with our social issues.
My son is even wise enough to know there’s something wrong with the young blackwomen his age. He also knows that’s there’s something wrong with the young men his age too. There are social issues in the community that affect how Blackmen and Blackwomen relate to each other that are causing our high divorce rates, our fatherless homes and other clashes between Blackmen and Blackwomen. For many of you older educated people in here to try and argue against the truth and then claim your seeking solution is decietful.
I will continue to attack the lack of character amongst any Black persons who front as freedom fighters and stir up drama. Many of you are just power hungry and don’t have compassion for the situation of the people at all. Blackwomen are suffering for every successful blackwomen there’s many more that aren’t successful. They women will be mother and they children will suffer as will ultimately our people. Truth hurts and sometimes it causes us to look at ourselves critiquely and challenge long held beliefs.
We are sometimes as Black people afraid to rule our own people. We allow low character blacks and power seeking pyschomanics to run our communities in the ground. We like the Chinese must deal with the immorality, the treachery and evil amongst that allows the White people to gain a wedge in our unity and destroy us slowly. Our unity will come at a price and we must be prepared to deal with the enemy within.
God and His angels are fighting the evil angels to bring order and peace. As Heavens fights within its ranks our war will be within our ranks. Some Black people no matter how good sounding and image clingling working against us and they must be stopped.
All the arguing back and forth about Blackmen dating whitewomen is just a distraction. I can care less about who you are dating it doesn’t change what a person stands for. Some of the most bastardly traitors, uncle toms and sambos have a black mate. We are not fighting against flesh and blood but principles. We’re not going to be available to pick the devil out so easy. During the Race Riots in America you have Whites hiding Blacks from the lynch mobs risking their lives and at the same time you had Blacks pointing out to the evil Whites where the Blacks were hiding. This revolution can’t be about race it must be about overthrowing the evil that exists right amongst.
We must be morally right and try to stay in balance and not become power drunk. Which some of you are power hungry liars! Stop that or I will continue to point out your lack of character!
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@phoebeprunelle
” black men still overwhelmingly prefer black wives as they marry black women well over 90% of the time. And, did you know that 88% of black American men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives? This is akin to what Kevin is saying in his post–nothing more nothing.”
Yes, Phoebe, you are absolutely right about that.
@ John Washington
Everyone has social issues, period. Even among white and Hispanic ethnicities there are some issues. For instance, some Latin American parents try to persuade their children to marry someone with the same nationality (i.e., a dominican marrying a dominican), and in some cases often look down at Latin Americans who are from a different country than their own. For my part, all I can do is teach other black men how to respect women period (including black women). And if black women feel like they want to have a discussion about some black men that prefer to and or would date white women, then that is fine with me. Perhaps it’ll help to heal certain of those “psychological” issues that many people (including yourself) claim they are “suffering” from. Openness and discussion is a prerequisite for understanding. You stated in your previous post that:
********”I will continue to attack the lack of character amongst any Black persons who front as freedom fighters and stir up drama. Many of you are just power hungry and don’t have compassion for the situation of the people at all.”******
Again, you are generalizing here. Just because a person’s opinion differs from yours, it does not mean he/she is “power hungry”. I do not see why or how you could make that inference based on most of the responses on this particular topic.
And the part about Haiti being “immoral”. International influences have had a large effect on Haiti’s lack of economic sustenance. So, does this mean that the entire world is immoral? Do you know that part of the reason Haiti has been unable to establish long term economic stability can be attributed to the $20 billion Haiti had to pay the French government in exchange for being recognized as a country, and as a punishment to make up for the loss of income the French were receiving from enslaving the Haitians (when Haiti successfully became the first Black republic….long before the American slaves attained freedom)? This was also supported by the western powers at the time (England, USA).
Haiti’s history is an example of the struggle of black people to be recognized as equals around the world (economically, politically, and socially). Haiti could have easily folded, and rescinded their request to be recognized internationally as a sovereign state, but instead they fought for what is right! In doing so, they suffered economically, and have struggled to recover since. This DOES NOT make Haitians immoral.
Also, did you also know that over 90% of the black individuals that graduate from American medical schools are first-generation African and Caribbean students (the trend can also be seen in undergrad, and other graduate and professional schools). Furthermore, in the state of New York in particular, Haitian doctors account for one out of every three black doctors, and comprise a large portion of the male black doctors in the NYC metropolitan area. And most Haitians I know (and trust me, I know many of them) have pretty strong work ethic. Are there bouts of political strife and instability in Haiti? Yes. But we can say just about the same thing for many of the other undeveloped countries of the world. Look at what is going on in the Middle East- the so called “Arab Spring”. Are they too “immoral” because they are fighting and demonstrating for democracy and freedom? Heck, Nigeria is currently in the midst of some political and religious turmoil. Nigeria just so happens to be one of a handful of African countries that has been experiencing some unprecedented economic growth in Africa. Are they all immoral too (because of the violence)? America has the highest incidence of gun-related violence. Are all Americans immoral as well? Your arguments lack weight, and should be further developed because all of your conclusions are based on faulty premises. There is nothing wrong with looking at the black dating issue in terms of religion and morality, but your correlations between the two are, at best, weak and underdeveloped!
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Wow! It amazing me how little you comprehend or some of you are just twisting my words to stir up trouble. I think the latter is more correct since there’s nothing uneducated about how you express yourrself giving little weight to a lack of comprehension arguement. Which brings me back to the lack of character arguement that I believe runs through many of you.
Revolution requires moral ground and spritual or otherwise you’re replacing a White Devil with a Black Devil. But devil doesn’t really have a color its that some people are just wicked. I’m decided that when need to attack the problem spiritually as well politically. Sure we can analaze each other’s arguement for solutions using statistics, numbers and common sense facts but without looking into the spiritual texts and recognizing we are in a spiritual war mainly. Good versus evil and that means we must not always focus upon the mundane.
I understand Haiti pays billions to France and that does contribute to its economic struggle. Yet the whiteman is 10% of the problem and 90% of how we react to him. There are pyschopathic white men who control world orders but there are pyschopathic Blackmen who control and manipulate the those orders within African American communities. I think Steve Cokely spoke of the Boule who control African American and Carribean Black communities. This hidden enemy what is plaguing Haiti and also Black America.
But let’s not go into that as that is another debate altogether. Conquers know that they have to kill the men and once having done that rape and enslave the women. Why has this been a ploy for 1000’s of years if it didn’t work? You can conquer and control a people via its women. Willie Lynchs entire speech and methodology wasn’t about dividing slaves into opposites pairs of House niggers and Field niggers or Old and young. It was about the scientific process of controlling the slave’s inner culture via their women. Once you have the women controlled they will do the work of making their children obidient.
You may have seen Blackmen sexing whitewomen and this occurs all over America history but never have you seen Blackmen in bed with the cruel master and living as his mistress as you’ve seen Blackwomen. Not only did Blackwomen slave with the cruel master throughout slavery but were his willing mistresses, i.e Thomas Jefferson. Look at the movie Monster Ball with Hally Berry she willingly sleeps with the Whiteman who kills her Black husband. Talk about treachery. But this is the result of the stockholm syndrome that affects women and weak physical persons whom get dominanted over a period of time where they become pyscholocially dependent upon their captors.
This is why conquers killed all the men and then hauled off the women and children into bondage because a strong male would resist to the end. And the women would in turn become helpers with the conquers and see them as the new male head. Why is that Black Women in America find that it so hard to believe this has been their psychological inheritance? Not all women have been succumb this mindless inhertited evil but majority have.
We celebrate Jesus in our culture and have forgotten the real history of Jesus. Well Jesus was a Blackman and the Hebrews his people were Black people. I’ve gotten so far beyond the whether Jesus was Black and am long down the road to understanding what happened than most Blacks who are still excited that Jesus was black. Well Jesus was a Blackman but so was his mother a Blackmother. Mary differed from all other women in the world which is why God choose her. How did she differ? Because most of the Hebrew women had the stockholm syndrome and were giving birth to children to be born slaves. Mary was evolved she took Joseph a carpenter not a Priest or highly to do man and made him her husband and they fled. What does it mean she was a virgin? It just means she was pure from all the crap of Roman male enslavement that had been trained into the other women. Mary rose above her enviroment and she did that by becoming spiritually and morally strong as a woman and not choosing the wrong man to have offspring by.
Blackwomen today do you have what’s in you to become like Mary? You don’t have to be a virgin but you must rise above the crap of Whitemale domination of your people. You have to choose the right kind of man that would not ensnare you back into the enslavement and worship of Babylon. Many are called but few are chosen and although it’s been said over and over again its very true. Genetically we are all gifted but some of us our genes of greatness are suppressed by this wicked world.
Now when Christ comes there will be many of the Black people to oppose him. Some of you are just outright wicked liars and seek to destroy the souls of others. You don’t won’t God to win souls you don’t want freedom for yourself either. You just want power and you want to use it to hurt people. Although you may be Black you are just as low as the White oppressor. The white oppressor counts on the fact 1 out of every 10 persons is a pyschopath born with no soul or conscious. The enemy can always find agreement with such persons who are just spoilers to our revolution.
We are having a revolution for freedom, justice, equality and the right to pursue happiness. We can unite we any people in the world but we will only unite with the righteous. So is it wrong for a Blackman to marry outside his race when alot of the Blackwomen are working for the enemy by keeping good blackmen unmarried and therefore black families fatherless and our community in shackles to White Supremacy. Without strong families we can’t have a revolution and our revolution will fail without strong families. We must bond families even if it means marry outside of own’s race. Race isn’t the issue it’s stopping the mad pyschopathic wicked plot to keep us in subjectation.
Be blessed.
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An amendment to my previous post:
One out of every three MALE black doctors in New York State are of Haitian descent.
One out of every ten male black doctors in the U.S. is Haitian. Such a high number (10%) for a tiny little island, which only contains about 9 million inhabitants.
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Are we veering off topic a bit?
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@Michelle
Yes we are, and I humbly offer my apologies for anything tangential that I spoke about. I thought my first few posts, and @phoebeprunelle’s last post would bring some understanding to @John Washington’s life. But apparently he is incorrigible!
@John Washington
You are making just a tiny bit of sense, but there is too much moral berating in your posts for it to be effective, so I’ll just have to ignore any future hateful things that you say, while attempting to disguise it with a religious/moral overtone. That comment about Haiti’s immorality was over-the-top and grossly off-topic. Again, it appears as if you have more contempt for black women than a desire to help mitigate the circumstances through reasonable, sound discussion. Be blessed brother!
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Again, it appears as if you have more contempt for black women than a desire to help mitigate the circumstances through reasonable, sound discussion.
This is the part i just don’t get. Some of the most “power to the people” black men harbor unfounded disdain towards black women. John is even implying that because black women were grossly raped and abused by racist white men during slavery and the 100 years that followed–that this is why black men do and should marry “out”? You used Sally Hemmings and Halle Berry as scapegoats to prove your point. With Sally Hemmings let’s look at this with a critical eye shall we. Many do not know this, but Hemmings was the half-sister of Jefferson’s wife! She was given to Mr. and Mrs. Jefferson as their “wedding gift” and guess what? On all historical accounts, in the beginning, the relationship between she and Jefferson was forced! It was not until his wife died that Hemmings slowly begun taking her place and Jefferson begin treating her as if she was half human. I doubt this was an ideal arrangement for her. Halle Berry–is a Hollywood actress–comparing Hollywood to real life is almost like comparing apples with oranges.
And what of our historical brothers who otherwise would have made good husbands and fathers in the black community who choose to be used politically and socially by racists whites at the time? I don’t see you chastizing them? Frederick Douglass although married to a black woman, cheated on her constantly with what he deemed as “refined white women”. He would never even take his black wife to social events with him because he was too embarrassed by her features and lack of knowlegde of white culture. I doubt this was an ideal situation for Douglass, but he probably could not refuse the requests of racist whites at the time otherwise he would have regressed politically.
That is as ridiculous as me holding sexual disdain for black men because they were lynched during slavery and the 100 plus years that followed. I blame the oppressed and not the oppressor? How delusional!
Let me state again for the gazillionth time that it does not concern me who anyone hooks up with and marries–and if you can point out in any of the previous posts i have made on this thread where the opposite is true–then feel free to quote me.
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@KevKev
It is okay…I am guilty of doing it myself lol 🙂
It happens so fast and you don’t even realize it.
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@Michelle and Kevin,
No, you all are not off topic. Abagond would have come in by now and reminded us. Sometimes the convo just broadens.
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ahh thanks pheobeprunelle 🙂
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Sorry KevKev 😉
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No offense taken 🙂
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If I had to guess the reason so many black power sorts hate black women is because instead of waiting around or forming a group to try and attain power or succeed black women are simply doing it on their own.
They have the disadvantange of being both black and a woman are still succeeding, going to college, getting degrees and making money and having careers.
It makes them look pathetic.
Also they often mean black “male” power and the ultimate male power fantasy is basically to have women at your beck and call ala Conan on his throne with a few women laying around him.
They want to feel powerful and a strong woman makes them feel weak.
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I will say this. I don’t care who anyone dates or chose to marry. Love is a very beautiful and power thing that transcends color but like so many things that are great and good it can be tainted by hate and ignorance. There is something so beautiful about two strangers deciding to care and love one another. Seeing a black man with a white woman or a black woman with a white man should not be strange anymore, I have no problems with it. I have dated interracial myself.
However, it makes my blood boil for a man or woman of color to demonize each other to explain why they prefer, date, marry, or love someone of another race. I have heard it all. Black women are too fat, too loud, too ghetto, too ugly, too black, too uneducated, too independent, or not enough of something. Because black women are too much or not enough, they feel that the white woman will fulfill all of these “shortcomings” that we as black women could never fill just because we are black. The beauty of white women is shoved down the throats of the world white black women get studies in Psychology Today that are supposed to objectively prove that black women are the most unattractive women in the world while black men are the most attractive. This indeed leaves black men with many options of the kinds and types of women they can attract while black women are seen as less attractive to all other races of men and even our own.
Thank God I had a mother and a father and other male and female role models who instilled in me confidence in who I am. Yet it still hurt when a man with skin the color of mine told me I was to dark to date. It’s as if obnoxiousness, obesity, illiteracy, and laziness is lessened when it is wrapped in white skin. I remember going on a double date once with my ex’s bother and his girlfriend. I remember how angry my ex got and how offended I got as his brother grinned and nodded as she talked about how white women knew how to treat a man, black women had nappy hair, wanted to be white, and were loud. The shit hit the fan when she told me I was okay because I was like a white girl in black skin as if that were a compliment.
When it comes down to it, be with who you want to be with and leave the stereotypes and put down behind. I can almost bet that everyone on this blog has some family of a different race. It is nearly impossible that no one on this blog has a family with only black or only white people these days. Cut the crap really. If you love someone, you don’t need excuses. When someone as you why you are with someone, you should be saying things like: He treats me nice, We get along great, We have a lot in common, I love him, I like her,… When you get defensive, it gets suspicious. When you go on about how “different” they are, it gets suspicious. When you immediate go on a tirade about why “insert race” is inferior to “insert race” you are at that point a non-factor to any woman with any common sense. I would not date a man of another race/color/ethnicity that demonized the women of his in-group because he thought I would be somehow different based solely on my skin tone.
I don’t date idiots and they happen to come in many varieties.
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I would not date a man of another race/color/ethnicity that demonized the women of his in-group because he thought I would be somehow different based solely on my skin tone.
This. . . what more could be said and i think Cleonette just shut the whole debate down.
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Yes, you right to notice that this is a unique trait that exists only among black woman. Could you also show us some statistics?
Could you cite some scholars like say, Lewontin or Dawkins?
Wutt?
OK. Someone is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
Yes, using a work of fiction as an example to describe a real world phenomenon.
The problem with the John Washingtons and the other Black Men Vent types in the world is hinted at by V-4 with
Black power movements (Nation of Islam, Black Panthers. Rastafari) usually end up with a deep resentment and hatred for black women not merely out of envy. They are envious, but they become envious due to the fact that the are actually right wing authoritarian movements wrapped in the clothes of left wing liberation. To the public, they come across as commie bastards, but internally they are run like some version of the Republican party on steroids set in the 1950s. This contradiction usually causes them to self destruct, as we are seeing with the many crazed lunatics (like the above).
Nowadays, we do not have the open violence that was exercised against black women, but passive-aggressive behaviour by pseudo-intellectual concern troll black men. They are still authoritarian, but as many black women are in the professions, have a cadre of black men to defend them (family, friends) a financially independent, they must use shaming tactics and other head games to disparage black women. They usually do this by equating black woman with ‘hoe’ and ‘golddigger’ and by trying to hurt black women with threats of dating white women.
The problem with men like those is not merely that they are powerless, but that they take out their powerlessness on black women, and the mistaken belief that white women will fix these problems. The problem is that they have failed at life – and that life has failed them.
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At one point (Antiquity)black women were considered among the most beautiful. . . and they still overwhelming preferred to be the intimate partners of black men. There is no historical evidence that proves otherwise. And don’t use Sally Hemmings and other black women who during enslavement had little control over their bodies–m’kay. So what is your point?
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@ John Washington
“A few of you of women crying over stereotypes of blackwomen being considered less attractive. Stop complaining and love yourselves.”
No woman on this thread sounds as if they are wallowing in self-pity to me about being considered less attractive. I merely pointed out that there are studies done about this. Even this pseudo-science article stated that black women were the most confident even though we were considered less attractive. I am wondering what type of black women are in your life that you have such low opinions.
“A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman no matter what race and ugly is ugly as well.”
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and very subjective. Someone “ugly” to you may be beautiful to someone else. So telling someone to stop complaining and love there self, then in the next breath saying ugly is ugly is well, counterproductive. It makes me wonder what your true stance is and why you are so judgmental and negative towards black women. A lot of negative, accusatory untruths, but very defensive for white women. You speak of these negative characteristics as if they are unique to only black women.
“They way some of blackwomen complain about rich successful blackmen marrying other women gives credit to your materialistic characters. Why does the status of those men matter to you? Why is it that you’re only interested in rich celebrity blackmen? Why aren’t you reaching out to the everyday common blackmen who are on your level?”
First off, there are more successful black women than successful black men. If you only speak of celebrity status, that I am not sure of. But in the real world, more black women are college educated and make more money than the average black man. Also, how can you call someone materialistic for wanting a better standard of life? I am an educated, intelligent, and motivated black woman and it doesn’t make me materialistic to want a man that has the same wants and aspirations as I do. Am I to lower my standards just because I am a black woman?
Most women who are successful on their own care less about what or who celebrity men are dating. But since you want to go there, I’ll be honest with you about my opinion. THEY PROBABLY WOULDN’T BE WITH THEIR BLACK AZZ IF THEY WERE BROKE! There I said it. You act like white women are running behind handy men, plumbers, and factory workers in groves! No, it really is the black women who are marrying these men. Again, what type of immature azz women have you been around who dream about some celebrity coming to save her from poverty? Really? You act like these celebrity men are out there dating intelligent, educated, and independent white women. Really? Over half of the women they date are stripers, sex-tape having, homie hoppers who have never dated a black man that made less than six figures. This is not the GED class of 1999 you are speaking to on this blog, so the women that you seem to be accustomed to do not reside in this place and probably have less than a 10th grade education. They may even actually be in the 10th grade because only a 16 year old girl or a 16 year old mind would actually want these men who bed these women.
“Another thing it seems some of you not all Blackwomen just jumping up and down about this blackmen dating other women because you think that Blackmen view other women as more beautiful. When it’s really your own self hatred of yourselves that makes you say this. I know it hurts but it’s very wicked to blame others for things we have paranoia about that only exists within us”.”
You say we have self hatred then you turn around and say you know it hurts? So which one is it? I think you are starting to confuse yourself and I am wondering if you are even black! I know some mamas 300+ pounds with more confidence in their pinky finger than women half their size. Their confidence makes them very beautiful. I am a pretty healthy woman myself and I get many compliments. No real woman live their life based off of celebrities. However, a lot of young girls and teens do put a lot of stock into the entertainment industry, but that is not unique to black women either. For example, why do you think so many young white women suffer from eating disorders? The media is more power than you give credit. It has you on this website right now saying what you are saying.
“What if Blackwomen were considered the most beautiful women in the world? Would you still stick with the blackman? Do you not see that many blackwomen who have degrees, cars, houses and money thumbing their noses up at blackmen who have less? What if men of other races where after Blackwomen would blackwomen stay? Especially considered you overlook brothers anyway. It makes me wonder if some of you are just envious.”
Okay you have officially had your azz whooped by the stupid stick. Tell me what research or experiences you have read about or seen where black women were thumbing their noses at black men? It’s not about us finding you more attractive. We stick with you because we are black women and no matter how stupid, ignorant, hurtful, and cheating some black men can be we still come right back to your stupid azzes! We talk about your doggish ways til we are blue in the face but we are always right there with open arms. When you get put out of your mama house, we are standing there holding the door. When they kill and beat you, we march in marches, make blog post, boycott, curse, and spit. When they splash your faces on the news as the most dangerous, the most violent, the most negative thing to hit America etc, we are right there with you. You see black women sticking up for black men all the f*cking time! Then you want to say we are envious!? You are either not black or YOU hate that you are black. We are just waiting for black men like you to defend US sometimes instead of standing with the crowd pointing fingers with the rest of them.
“Black people have a huge problem with envy.”
You can’t be black and say some bull like this and love yourself at the same time. Real suspicious.
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@John Washington
You may have seen Blackmen sexing whitewomen and this occurs all over America history but never have you seen Blackmen in bed with the cruel master and living as his mistress as you’ve seen Blackwomen. Not only did Blackwomen slave with the cruel master throughout slavery but were his willing mistresses, i.e Thomas Jefferson. Look at the movie Monster Ball with Hally Berry she willingly sleeps with the Whiteman who kills her Black husband. Talk about treachery. But this is the result of the stockholm syndrome that affects women and weak physical persons whom get dominanted over a period of time where they become pyscholocially dependent upon their captors.
Ah, I see. Those women exercised ‘choice’ in this time didn’t they. It wasnt purely a case of survival was it? Why weren’t the black men of this time more proactive then? Answer – they could not be as ALL black people of this time would have felt the whip. They were oppressed, they were subjugated NO BLACK PERSON IN THIS TIME WAS ALLOWED AUTONOMOUS THOUGHT. The second they showed a modicum of independence and free thinking, this was beaten out of them.
I find it amusing how you compare the very real situation regarding slavery with a screenplay and the characters therein. It gives an indication of your mentality which seems to be not living in the real world.
From all that I have read of your comments, the above demonstrates a thinly veiled attempt to ‘justify’ why BM in the here and now make the CHOICE to date WW. The dishonest way in which you have tried to rationalise this suggests to me, self loathing and guilt on your part. Why that is, only you can say but, I suspect that it is because you know you too have succumbed to the brainwashing filtered down my those at the ‘Top’ who would still have you believe that BP the world over are still ‘Ape like’ in their look, demeanour, mentality etc.
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I’m confused because i was certain that black women marry black men over 90% of the time, i think like 94% of the time?
John, it really sounds like you need a hug from a black woman or just a hug in general.
*net hug*
Feel better now?
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Something that I have often thought (I could be wrong) while learning about slavery is…white men raped and tortured black women openly to show dominance and put fear in them….so in my opinion…a white man in those days would show affection towards a black woman to prove his dominance and also to hurt the black men watching showing them they were powerless to help their women. I feel that even though a black woman consented physically out of survival…that did not mean she was consenting mentally…therefore her mind was being raped as well.
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correction……it was out of survival.
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“What if Blackwomen were considered the most beautiful women in the world? Would you still stick with the blackman? Do you not see that many blackwomen who have degrees, cars, houses and money thumbing their noses up at blackmen who have less? What if men of other races where after Blackwomen would blackwomen stay? Especially considered you overlook brothers anyway. It makes me wonder if some of you are just envious.”
“What if”? Your perception of beauty is really discerning. I often find myself leaning towards black beauty…I know that sounds weird because I am a white woman but…society was making me feel that in order to be beautiful I had to be as stick figure with pale skin and thin lips. If that is what the world deems as “most beautiful” then there is something really wrong with that. If a picture of a white rail thin runway model was presented to me next to a black curvaceous runway model…I would lean more towards the Black model…because my idea of beauty is sexy curves and natural (not injected) full lips. I am not saying that the thin white women is ugly…I just see beauty differently.
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Stop talking to John. Who cares what he thinks? Don’t you realize that trolls are like crows and other birds? Feeding them will only make them come back for more.
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Wow John has some major issues.
Well I can’t speak for black women or men everywhere. All I know is that Black Men for the most part secretly want White Women. It’s a status thing. You get money, you figure i’ll get get the white girl. Throughout college this was my experience. Not everyone but most I encountered would within a heart beat go for the white girl. I have to admit, I fell into this group. I actually found this blog because of that very reason, trying to figure out Why? For me personally, it turned out to be internal racism. Now I am just trying to recover.
I have also met women of color who would happily go for the white guy. With women it’s much harder to find out exactly, they keep this side hidden but you know, if a white guy offered himself to a black girl and a black guy did the same, and lets say they were both in the same economic bracket(lets say middle class or above), she would most probably go for the white guy.
Tis true, don’t lie. This is reality.
It just so happens that again, some black men will not even touch white women, and the reason is well, hate. Some want to but can’t because a white woman will never go for them so they settle for the black girl.
Racism plays total havoc on the black psyche.
Did you know that most chic black guys grow afros so that white girls can like walk up to them and go like
“Can I touch your hair?”
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@wilson
“Some want to but can’t because a white woman will never go for them so they settle for the black girl.”
I was wondering if that is your opinion…”settle for the black girl”? Or is that what you have heard others use as a response in those exact words? I am asking because I find that to be an insult to black women…as if to say they are not worthy of a black man or that they are not as good as a white woman. I hope you will clarify that for me.
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@ Michelle,
Oh this whole ordeal is an insult to black women and black men alike. Yes I have heard many black guys say that, not in such a way but they implying it – some just come out and say it straight. It’s not a question of is she good enough compared to the white woman or is a black man good enough compared to a white man, it is a status thing. Its about status and for the black man, white woman thing, for the most part black men think they will derive greater sexual pleasure from a white woman. Now that is something I have heard many say…. When they go out, you won’t see them chasing black girls, they’ll be eyeing up the white girl on the corner…
Just my own personal experience from college life before I graduated.
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@satanforce
I usually stop interacting with posters that are ignorant and there is not hope of changing them because they won’t listen…but usually those posters are using the “broken record” department as a defense. I feel John is different because his words are harmful and it is difficult for me to sit and let him spout ignorance about black women and rape. I feel that ignoring white racism is feeding nad enabling white racism…so why should I let a black man get away with harming black women. I feel that would be feeding his misguided beliefs and enabling his hatred.
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imply*
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@wilson
Thank you for clarifying 🙂 I don’t understand the “status” thing. Do you know why they feel that way. Because to me it does not make since that they would rather date any white women for “status” and overlook beautiful, educated and established black women. I am not trying to say that one race should stick with there own…I have never believed that…but I just don’t understand what those men consider to be “status” and why it is so important to them.
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@ Michelle,
I noticed I didn’t answer your question precisely enough:
Well what I mean by settle for the black girl is,
If a black man is rich/talented, confident, successful etc he will MOST LIKELY go for a white woman. Yeah sure he will have his pick of either white or black women but bottom line is the white woman will come out on top.
Now if he is not talented, successful or confident, he will settle for the black woman. This is because for the most part, a white woman will not go for a nobody black guy. Secretly though, he wants to up his game and his station in life so that he can get the white woman.
Abagond put it nicely with this quote
Its a combination of both status and “sexual pleasure”. Not that it’ll increase his status, but that it’ll confirm to him that HE IS THE MAN. He has been and conquered.
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@ Michelle,
Well speaking for myself and my own experience with other people, the guys I have known throughout my life, girls, either black or white represent conquest. That is why for the most part men speak in such derogatory terms with their friends when they sleep with a girl.
The higher her status or position, the greater the conquest if you can *excuse this term* nail her, the greater that feeling, especially if you can hold your own.
A white girl is a greater prize than a black girl… Contrary to what PoC say, white girls aren’t easier.. The only reason they say that is because White Girls, or white people in general tend to be more sexual, overtly so. In any colored country, you won’t see people making out on the streets or half naked posters of women in city centres, this mostly happens in Western(white) countries or countries heavily influenced by western culture. This gives the impression that White Girls are easier… but they aren’t because they are especially picky when it comes to PoC.
So since she ranks higher than the black girl, it becomes a matter of status. Again this is where they start classifying some white women as trailer trash or whatever, she doesn’t hold much value compared to a classier well groomed counterpart. If a white woman openly goes with a black man as well, her status will go down in the eyes of white men and maybe even white women and she can be called dirty names..
For the most part sex is a matter of status. Both gaining it and confirming it to others and themselves as individuals, like “see who I slept with last night.”
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@wilson
I guess I was trying to compare what you said to my first real boyfriend when I was 16…I say “real” because he was the first boyfriend that did not mentally or physically abuse me. I guess I was hoping that didn’t apply to him.
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@Wilson
@Michelle
Whitewomen are chasing “The Impossible.” How can i explain this scenario? Blackmen lust whitewomen for various reasons…revenge…sexual lust…status..ego-trippin…lifestyle, and so forth. Being with a whitewoman is a choice. No one can force a blackman to fornicate with “Massas” wives and daughters. Yes, it’s all of the above, but, it’s about sex first and foremost. Blackmen know that they can get the sugar, therefore, they chase. Remember, blackmen in the US have an abundant supply of white females who are ready and willing to jump into bed with blackmen at the drop of a hat. At the same time, blackmen need to understand that they’re not impressing other blackmen. “The Swirl” is gifted to blackmen from birth, so, all heterosexual brothas can make women melt inside and out just the same…Ditto! Michelle, and other whitewomen think they have the right to be with blackmen just because they don’t love whitemen in the same way…Not So! Whitewomen, asian women, and native-american women don’t love their men like blackwomen love blackmen. So, it’s easy for Michelle to say that race doesn’t matter, she’s part of the crowd. What WW doesn’t dream about being pounded into ecstacy by a well-endowed brotha? Whitewomen need to keep it 100, as it relates to their motives. If they want to be pseudo-blackwomen, they should be woman enuf to admit it out loud. Wilson, whitewomen want to be black, blackmen want to incorporate them into the fam, because, they have no built-in incentive to remain loyal to whitemen…the same applies to other non-black women as well. Michelle seems like a sharp woman, she knows the deal. “Black Again” is the term i created some time ago to describe the mindset of non-black women who desire blackmen. All human beings hail from africa, therefore, women take it upon themselves to make blackness a reality for themselves and their offspring…Simple Logic! I don’t begrudge any woman for liking blackmen, but, blackwomen will always be #1 on the list. Michelle, you and your white sisters need to “Kiss The Ring” if you want what you want, Yes? The fundamental point…Loving Blackwomen Is Loving All Women…Bottomline!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros…Black Brown & Gold 24/7/365
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The general concensus here seems to be that WW are more likely to go for a BM if he is rich/famous/has prestige is this correct?
I can’t say that this has been my experience growing up – perhaps locality and social aspirations/expectations are a factor here?
Of some of the examples I have seen of these IR pairings, there are of course many and diverse. The most detrimental to BW though I feel are the ones where BM will trot out all of the negative stereotypical things about BW and yet, be with a WW who most other WM would even balk at dating. These men often put WW on a pedestal – if you look further up on this thread there is the phone in with Vanessa Feltz where one guy demonstrates this. To revere a certain type of woman is fine, but, what is disgusting, is his need to then go and denigrade BW. I dont think these guys realise the spiral of self loathing that then filters down and is felt by their children who, by the way, will be deemed black, particularly of course if they are girls.
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@Wilson
Whitewomen are not superior to blackwomen, it’s the other way around. Blackmen lust whitewomen for status…Bottomline! They think they’re hurting whitemen in the process…Really? Again, these are not the cream of our race, let’s not put them on a pedestal. Real blackmen love blackwomen, and always will.
Tyrone
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@Tyrone
Some of your perceptions about me are a tad off. I desire to be a woman that is accepted as I am. I am not trying or dreaming to be a black woman. I acknowledge beauty as I see it. I didn’t realize that recognizing the beauty of black women put me in a category of wanting to be a black woman. There is nothing wrong with being a black woman but I don’t understand why you think I am trying to be. Yes I say that race doesn’t matter. That is my personal feelings and I will stick to them regardless of what you think about them. That does not mean I am blind to white racists that think race does matter. People that think race matters is exactly why oppression exists. I am not partial to any race. I have beliefs and feelings that I am passionate about and nothing you say negative about me will change them. I love my white husband, so that is a little absurd that you would claim I don’t love white men. I ask questions that pertain to my life experiences past and present. Your comment was a little confusing because it appeared you were insulting me through most of it and then in one sentence you appeared to compliment me…would you tell me why?
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@ Demeera,
“The general concensus here seems to be that WW are more likely to go for a BM if he is rich/famous/has prestige is this correct?”
Yeah I think so at least in my experience.
Your experience offers a different perspective, I wonder what those women are looking for in those types men?
In my experience, there are 2 types of white women in black men’s eyes:
The one you just want to f___k nothing more, then there is the one you want to be the one but chances are you’ll never get.
@ Tyrone,
You might be right. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
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Anyways, bottom line is, when it comes to male female pairings, what should matter is if they get along, find each other interesting and have an emotional connection not what race each one belongs to or what socio-economic class each one hails from etc..
But well, the world isn’t perfect and It just so happens that the things that should matter least happen to matter the most.
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@wilson
In my experience, there are 2 types of white women in black men’s eyes:
The one you just want to f___k nothing more, then there is the one you want to be the one but chances are you’ll never get.
Yes, it does seem that my perspective is very different from your everyday experiences. For a start, the BM in my experience, do not see WW as unnatainable because generally, they are not. You said further upthread that WW being easy is a myth. I think the difference, certainly from my experience is that BW were brought up with stricter moral codes and standards and certainly of the WG I grew up with, hardly any of them were even affiliated with a church let alone attended one! Discipline in the home was different too. I didnt know any BP who grew up not feeling the sharp sting of ‘licks’ whereas my white friends were often able to argue back with parents and express their PoV. Now, this is a sweeping generalisation, but it is important to point out that this is merely the observations and experiences of a small town in the U.K where I primarily grew up. This does NOT mean that those BG ended up conducting themselves better than WG overall – there are many examples where unfortunately this was not the case however, in terms of sex and behaving in an overt sexual way which would snare a man with the promise of oodles of sex, BW generally conduct themselves differently. Not saying that they are not as promiscuous at all, I am just saying the initial encounter would not necessarily be as overt with promise as maybe with a WW. Perhaps some WW are able to more readily succumb to their sexuality whereas BW act like it is a precious prize to be won.
As I think I have mentioned on this very thread, most of the said WG would say things like ‘my dad would kill me if I went out with a BM’ and these generally are the individuals who have invariably ended up with BM. Now, talking with BM, many say they cannot be bothered with the screw face, cussing BW who expects to be treated a certain way whereas WW are less likely to behave like this and will endure more. These examples are of course in their most negative context.
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Wow! This is thread is about Blackmen of Celebrity status and successful blackmen who marry/date outside of their race with any woman besides Blackwomen. It’s not about Blackwomen vs Whitewomen but many of you have turned it into that. The primary focus of Blackwomen who don’t like to see Blackmen dating outside is with Whitewomen. Why is that? What issues do you women have that causes you to single out Whitewomen when it comes to Blackmen dating outside their race.
And what is race? A social construct devised to put poor people into various categories of division so that they won’t become a threat and unite against the minority rich elite class. Slavery has and still consists of all kinds of people that have been enslaved especially Asian and White women to this very day. American slavery also consisted of Blacks, Whites and Native Americans but the elites saw fit to keep the Blacks as exclusive slaves because the Blacks were so willing to betray each other and the other groups so willing to betray Blacks so they wouldn’t be enslaved and could enjoy meager benefits of false freedom.
I studied pyschology whislt in college and was a natural at because of my nosy nature of watching people. It’s very true that people who are self conscious to become very arrogant, narrissitic and cocky to mask their lack of inner belief in themselves. The Bible tends to refer to this trait as pride. I know we use the word Pride inexchangable with confidence but exactly that just that specific connatation of Pride. Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins and many people who achieve material worldy success get affected by it. Also people who have such physical traits or inborn talents or inherited wealth social status can also be quite haughty.
Pride or Self consciousness leads ultimately to cruelty. Successful Blackwomen who speak of not dating unsucessful Blackmen are strongly affected by pride. Holding outward standards over the heads of Blackmen seeking to court them. But if this has made your eligible pool of suitors shrink then while not get mad at yourself. Why do you not be honest with yourself? You’re holding out for the perfect Blackman to come along then that’s your issue not anyone elses.
It’s wicked and immoral to take your fustrations out on others. Because your pride and self consciousness leads you astray away from simple happiness. Yes. If you have everything you need as far as substance such as an income, a car and a home and now all you need is a man then get one. But if you just want one for the night then you’re not being true to what you want. And if you’re turning down men who you find attractive but aren’t successful as you then who’s fault is that but yours?
You have no right to benign or mistreat Blackmen who have found a mate even if it’s with a woman that isn’t Black. You’ve gone from being Pride or self conscious to being envious. Envy is another of the 7 deadly sins because it’s very destructive in it that the envious person seeks to destroy anyway they can the happiness and good fortune of another. Especially when you are quite capable yourself of having a mate but you hold out wishing for a materialistic version of men you seek.
So many of you posting lately are liars saying Blackmen with Whitewomen are seeking status. You’re either liars or foolish and both of them can lead to destructive behavior. It is women who seek status with men and not the other way around. A man will marry a lower caste woman and make her his wife. This is the basis of the Cinderella story and this is true in life as well. A wealthy man will marry a waitress, a stripper or any lower status woman because men are phsysical and like beautiful women. Women are seeker of men of status and that is true everywhere in every culture throughout the history of mankind. Yet certain wealthy women who fall in love with a man will marry him regardless but it’s very rare.
To me this whole topic is about Blackwomen who can’t stand to see successful blackwomen with anybody but a blackwoman. Despite the fact many of them who are successful will not a date/marry and unsuccesful blackman. So who is the lying hypocrite? If Black Love was that important to you then why don’t you prove it? Go and marry a handsome Black gentlemen who lack the world success that you so covet.
Honestly you won’t marry Blackmen who aren’t successful and that’s why some Blackmen strive to be successful obtain it remember how Blackwomen didn’t stand by them. Mind you that vengence is one of the 7 deadly sins as well and those Blackmen who are angry and bitter with Blackwomen who are status struck who ultimately never find peace no matter who they are with.
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@ Demeera,
I think it helps to reverse the situation. Lets talk about white men and black women.
In your view, do you think a white man is easier than a black man?
The answer is the same answer to,
Is a white woman easier than a black woman?
That’s how I see it.
I am not saying white women are unattainable, I am saying it’s a myth that she has no standards… However I am saying that most black guys do fall for at least one white woman during the course of their lives who for them is unattainable… This is generally true, every now and again guys do encounter girls that are just on a different level, no amount of game will suffice.
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Just to clarrify on the unattainable thing,
Take you for example Demeera, maybe there was a guy at some point in your life who would have done anything for you but still that wasn’t enough and now you are where you are with your current husband/boyfriend… I mean there are various reasons why this “mythical” guy might have failed such as, not your type, not in your class, maybe you liked someone else etc.. So in this example, you were unattainable to this “mythical” guy…
If the guy is white, he’ll go out and say,
“You know what, some black girls are unattainable.”
Same kind of thing to what I meant with some white girls are unattainable.
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@wilson
I think its important to point out here that I did say that these are generalisations based on the most negative examples of IRR that I have seen. I am certainly not able to encompass the views of ALL WW who date BM and what their motiviations are if any other than desire, attraction and love. In terms of standards, again, I dont know what these are as obviously they will differ from person to person.
A question for you though wilson. Do you think that BM who have a preference for WW would have the same standards in terms of dating a BW? By this I mean, and I apologise for sounding like a broken record, would a BM with a preference for WW date a BW who ‘resembled’ said WW – as an example look at Vanessa Feltz and Ben. I guarantee if she was black, BM who would go out with her now, as a WW would not be interested in her as a BW.
In your view, do you think a white man is easier than a black man?
In answer to your question, honestly Wilson, I dont know. Men who are ‘easy’ in that way do not appeal to me at all. Now, I get approached by WM as much, if not more than by BM so, does this make them ‘easier?’ Not necessarily.
However I am saying that most black guys do fall for at least one white woman during the course of their lives who for them is unattainable… This is generally true, every now and again guys do encounter girls that are just on a different level, no amount of game will suffice.
We ALL without exception have fallen for someone where reciprocation is unrequited. I’m not sure whether you feel that WW exlusively fit this elusive desire here??? That only they inspire this unfulfilled dream in a way that no woman of any other race could?
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That’s off topic. Don’t do it again. Now, where da white women at?
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@John Washington
Where is it stated in this blog article entitled “black men, white women” that it “is a thread about Blackmen of Celebrity status and successful blackmen who marry/date outside of their race with any woman besides Blackwomen”? I must have missed it.
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messed up the quotes on that one.
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@satanforce
LOL…good one 😀
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@ Bulanik,
Yeah I thought as much. Need to expand my horizons.
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@wilson
For example, and I hate to admit this, beautiful black women are not as common as beautiful white women….A part of me feels very guilty for being so shallow as to let appearance matter that much that it blinds one to all else, like personality and substance.
@Bulanik
Huh?
Sincerely, in my lifetime, and in my travels, I have not seen THAT….
Maybe its down to ‘location location location????’ because I have to agree with Bulanik that this is not my experience either. To be fair, your response to my question above suggests that BM do not seek particularly high standards in terms of beauty in WW as they do BW as, part of the appeal is white skin in the first place so, this being the case, perhaps you would not necessarily be looking for beautiful BW but are mainly seeking out attractive WW hence why you feel that beautiful BW are not as common.
This all sounds as though I have a gripe against IR dating – believe me I dont no matter who is involved but, I do get concerned when generalisations like this are the prevailing ideology and rationale as to the WHY people do this.
Thanks for your honesty btw wilson.
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@Bulanik
When I was young, it baffled me when I saw black men speak out passionately against the racism they experienced at the hands of white people, yet preferred the beauty and companionship of white women.
Yes Bulanik, I too witnessed this whilst growing up. Another aspect of this is the BM who pursued WW who disliked BW dating WM. To these guys, it seems that this IR pairing was treated with derision.
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@ Demeera,
@ Bulanik,
Yes I think location is important and who one interacts with. In my life I haven’t interacted with as many black people as I’d have liked, my world is mostly white. Yes I have seen some extraordinarily beautiful women of color but that is not an everyday thing.
But then as you both say, maybe due to internalized racism one holds the opposite sex of their race to much higher standards which means it’s possible to become blind to quite a lot of women of color.
Something to definitely think about.
I have to say, on a personal level, I find how I view women of color in general reflects greatly how I view myself.
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@wilson
“Yes I think location is important and who one interacts with. In my life I haven’t interacted with as many black people as I’d have liked, my world is mostly white. Yes I have seen some extraordinarily beautiful women of color but that is not an everyday thing.”
You should visit Atlanta and Columbus, Georgia! Some of the most beautiful WOC that I have seen in my travels are there!
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@wilson
I have debated on whether I should comment about your inner struggles…because I don’t think I could never begin to compare my life or experiences as a white woman…with yours as a black man…but my compassion for you as a human being is overwhelming after hearing your experience. I personally feel that you might benefit from others on here. You may also benefit from getting out and submerging yourself into your culture and POC to help you work through your inner struggles. I fear that being among white people your whole life has oppressed your true inner self causing you to have doubts and inner conflict. I am sorry if this is offensive…i don’t know how else to say it…but I think you need to release your inner black man that I fear you may have stuffed away over the years. I apologize if you feel it is not my place to comment on this and i will respect your wishes if you express them to me. My heart goes out to you and I hope you can find inner peace and understanding.
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That is the answer to your questions and ponderings Demerera and Bulanik
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@Bulanik
“For my own part, my focus is wilson’s thoughts and feelings on the matter…”
This is exactly what I was referring to when I told wilson “I personally feel that you might benefit from others on here.” I think your compassion and willingness to hear his thoughts and feelings will help him tremendously. 🙂
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@ everyone,
Thanks for being so understanding.
@ Bulanik,
————————————————-
How does anyone who is on the receiving end of internalized racism put a stop to this erosion on their psyches?
————————————————-
Well for me, the first step came in when I realized that internal racism does exist and that it can manifest itself in different ways. For one thing, I noticed whenever I was interacting with white people, lets say walking down a street with friends, I’d hate to stare at the side of a building if its walls were reflective – because I’d see myself. Then I realized that I had also “externalized” my internal racism onto women of color… All along I was lying to myself that “Oh, you know the light doesn’t reflect my skin color right or oh, I can’t help but find white women more attractive than black women, maybe that’s how it actually is.”
So the first step is to definitely face the reality, accept it – am still in the process of that. Internal racism really is an insidious thing and it really does corrode ones psyche, it eats away at ones humanity and spirit.
Then I think the next step that should run simultaneously with the first is one should find out the reasons behind internal racism – white propaganda and ‘bought off’ black culture that gives the media ammunition to portray us as non-humans. I think it is important to realize that we are just human beings, not supermen and in the face of overwhelming adversity we can cave in on ourselves. So recovery is a process not an event. The other cause of internal racism I think is white people, white culture has thing thing where it portrays itself as “something that we should all emulate”, more divine, more sophisticated, more elegant, more beautiful, more intelligent, more adventurous, they invent stuff, they do stuff, they build the world.. etc. That gives them this glean of being “something more” and us of being “something less”. Sometimes you see this in the juxtaposition of the “white female” where she is portrayed as innocent, more passive or “active” in an “acceptable” way, more elegant with the “black female” where she is just there to kind of “fill empty space”.
Then I think the other step to cultivating a healthier self-image should be interacting with black people and immersing oneself in black culture. I recently started doing this, I went to an event recently and during the interludes, I made sure to talk to black people, my usual pattern would be to find a white group and immerse myself in that.
@ Michelle,
Your comment was not offensive at all…
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@John Washington
If Black Love was that important to you then why don’t you prove it? Go and marry a handsome Black gentlemen who lack the world success that you so covet.
Damn it John – there was me waiting for you. Are you not available??? Me and you will rule the world – whatdoyousay?
@wilson
Take you for example Demeera, maybe there was a guy at some point in your life who would have done anything for you but still that wasn’t enough and now you are where you are with your current husband/boyfriend… I mean there are various reasons why this “mythical” guy might have failed such as, not your type, not in your class, maybe you liked someone else etc.. So in this example, you were unattainable to this “mythical” guy…
Sigh, wilson. So many suitors so little time 😉 LOL
Meanwhile I really appreciate your candid response. It sounds like you have an interesting road to self discovery ahead of you and, as others have said, logging on to sites such as this is one of the very useful tools to enable this self evaluation and understanding and a greater understanding of the world at large IMO.
Meanwhile don’t beat yourself up necessarily for being attracted more to what you have come to know and feel more ‘comfortable’ with however, I would say dont fall foul of ‘believing’ every negative bit of propaganda about BW either. I appreciate it is very easy to do but, you’re a smart man and I feel confident that you will challenge this.
Whether you end up with a WW or a BW regardless your offspring will need that role model and guidance in terms of understanding themselves in a world where, to put it bluntly, particularly as a black female, you can often find yourself doubly marginalised and feeling at times, a bit misplaced in society if, and I mean if, all the groundwork that parents should do, has not been done adequately.
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@wilson
My comment is in moderation to you but it is a brief reply to yesterday’s conversation.
ttfn
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I do believe media propaganda is the main culprit of all this: always picturing Whiteness as goodness, perfection etc. While actually I tend to believe it’s quite the opposite. Remember that white society(european society) is based upon lies, delusions and murders; remember also who the prince of this world is: Satan. “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light”.
To this day, at least 70% of the people we see in TV/cinema are white people even though they are the minority on the face of this earth. I think the only way Black will really overcome this internalized racism(and therefore effectively oppose and subdue white superiority complex) will be to understand why it’s better to bring to light offspring with its entire melanin potential: that is pure Blacks. If this world is to become a paradise, Black people will have to make it happen.
SD from Italy
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I don’t speak to anyone directly on here so don’t direct your comments towards me. I’m a classical debater meaning I debate the point and try to destroy the point not the person. Which is why I charge some of you with bad character who have not done that but just the opposite.
Accusing people of wrong doing when they have done no wrong is very wrong! Alot of you are assuming Blackmen are choosing up Whitewomen out of self hatred but are you listening? Many Blackmen even the ones that stick with Blackwomen soley are saying Blackwomen have negative hostile attitudes about people in general. Not only are they’re saying it your own Blackmen but Blackmen from other countries because blackwomen there don’t act with the negative hostile anti-social attitude like American Blackwomen.
I keep saying that is from slavery and is a by product of the rape and abuse of Blackwomen by Whitemen. This is one of the reason many Blackmen don’t abandon blackwomen because they love you but still want to see you healed. I remember Farrakhan said years ago that Black Americans never recieving any healing from the horrors of slavery they experienced. White people with many go to counseling and get all kinds of encouragement to make a life change and we got nothing. We are still screwed up in alot of ways and that includes the educated ones as well.
Speaking on education as I have before America’s elite have used College Eduation to drive us towards a divided society. To where now we have all these educated professionals draining the economy and not producing anything. People sitting up in cubicles drawing huge salaries just because they have degree. While Blue collar working class people are out of work because businesses have shipped all the manufactoring and production jobs overseas. That is what is draining us and America is falling behind China and Southeast Asia.
The Black community itself is a prime example of jobs, labor and dollars exported out to other communities. W.E.B Dubois and the Boule camp of Greek Societies negroes laugh at, mocked and destroyed the reputations of Booker T. Washington and Marcus Garvery who tried to pull up the common Blackman. Not everyone will obtain a college degree and it actuality it even isn’t necessary. No classical kingdom was built on scholarly academic persons. They all were built by the uneducated but skilled craftsmen which is the why America was built until Big Business started shipping those jobs out ot break the independance of the common class.
College educations are getting more and more unafforable due to the economy not to mention most college degrees programs where fluffed anyway with unneccesary elective classes required to complete degrees in order to enrich colleges greed. This is why technical colleges came into existence because they focused more on hands on direct technical knowlege that put students to work right away. But even these programs have been unaffordable.
But in all there are many Blackmen very well educated and out of work due to discrimination. Blackmen with college degrees are deferred beneath whitemen with high school diplomas and prison records. It’s no recourse for alot blackmen who see their elder brothers out of work who did go to school and finish. Plus many Blackwomen lot upon educated blackmen as undesirable, gay, too soft, too weak and etc. We all know the majority of the sisters are going after the so-called alpha male which is just strong men with no brain.
But there’s alot of Blackwomen on high horses who think that they are above blackmen because more of them are working than blackmen. But here are the facts:
Blackmen who work make 20% in salary than Blackwomen who work.
Blackmen who own more businesses.
Blackmen went no education are the richest and these men aren’t drug dealers.
Blackmen have more wealth collectively and more high qualified education to make us an independent people. But we have to deal with the treachery of the Elite Black class who have become secret socities of Illumaniti to suppress any Black uprising. Alot of money is made out of keeping Black dollars going towards other people. Also the social pimping that continues to guide our community towards an enslavement to the Democractic Party. And the stupidity that makes a few of us join the Republican Party just to keep the contrast going and the infighting.
We as Blackmen would have been better off if we have followed Booker T. Washington and Marcus Garvey. These leaders were looking out for the lower tier of Black society which is in the majority still. Then many of the Brothers would have trades and could be enjoying working for themselves. Our Black dollars would be spend trading with Africa and our education would be used to help them refine, manufactor the vast resources of Africa.
There so many of you stuck on this stupid gender war that is tearing about Blackpeople in America. We can’t be a strong people without strong families. You saw what the Hispanics and Latinos were able to do with strong family ties. They now own more businesses in Atlanta than the Blacks in so-called Black mecca. But there is no Black mecca and why is that? Because we are being betrayed from within by negative attitudes, anti-socialism, psychopathic mind states, self canibalism and just wicked intentions by some of our own.
We are our own worst enemies now not White people. The Blackwomen have to grow up and see that by not supporting Blackmen then the situation will only get worst. Culture everywhere in the world is centered around women. When the women are insisted upon as particular cultural phenomenon there’s nothing a single male can do to change it. He can only leave that culture and that is happening and will only continue to happen. We need another uprising to deal with the treachery from within us that is destroying us slowly.
Our enemies lie within our own camps and not with whites or any other groups. Malcolm X was killed because he understand that and was starting to say it. The Blackpeople in America have always been betrayed by the ones from within our own camps. The ones who care and try to bring us out of our dying state have been silenced and killed by those within who refuse to change. But God is with the righteous and the wicked will have their day to eat their words.
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Are you seriously asking these questions or is this a joke?
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I see. Well you should ask Frederick Douglass. The success of his entire career was in exchange for pleasing white ladies. He had to take Otillie Aising to social dinners and events as his date. His black wife was not allowed.
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John Washington writes: ” You may have seen Blackmen sexing whitewomen and this occurs all over America history but never have you seen Blackmen in bed with the cruel master and living as his mistress as you’ve seen Blackwomen. Not only did Blackwomen slave with the cruel master throughout slavery but were his willing mistresses, i.e Thomas Jefferson. Look at the movie Monster Ball with Hally Berry she willingly sleeps with the Whiteman who kills her Black husband. Talk about treachery. But this is the result of the stockholm syndrome that affects women and weak physical persons….”
—
You don’t need to rationalize it or make up far-fetched “excuses” over it…just get yourself a white woman and be done with it.
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@Bulanik
Did I just miss something? Did I fail to read the slave narratives of black male raped at the hands of white women?
No you didnt. What you have stumbled on is someone elses ‘reality’.
On this very blog people, including myself have alluded to the influence of media, a media governed and controlled by white people who, certainly in this era that we are discussing, were not interested in a fair representation of black people. On the contrary, the more base and less human they could claim black people were, the more they could justify and rationalise their appalling treatment.
Unfortunately, I have found when things are just too upsetting or abhorent to contemplate people ‘choose’ to believe an ‘alternative’ reality. A ‘reality’ that puts the blame at the feet of the victim – an individual that has been so beaten down and defeated, that they cant even summon up enough energy to defend themselves against being blamed for something they had no control over.
@phoebeprunelle
Are you seriously asking these questions or is this a joke?
Hey. I understood Bulanik’s questions/statments to be incredulousness in terms of some of the responses on here.
@?????
I don’t speak to anyone directly on here so don’t direct your comments towards me.
I thought speaking to you rather than about you was the more polite form or response. Hey ho….
Accusing people of wrong doing when they have done no wrong is very wrong!
Yes I agree, thats why I wouldnt say things like not only did Blackwomen slave with the cruel master throughout slavery but were his willing mistresses because I dont believe this to be true at all and, neither does everything we know about that time suggest there is credence to your statement either, certainly not for ALL bw. I also think it is wrong to use this awful example in order to make a point about IR couplings.
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@Demerera,
the problem is you are never going to get black men like ????? (i.e. Diary of a Tired Black Man forum posters and the like) to realize that black slavery and white injustices are not the fault of black women.
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Who loves a black woman? Who will stand up and defend us? Are we not feminine enough? Do we not deserve protection? When my father called me a princess as a little girl, should he had also told me to never expect to be a queen? For my sisters with no father, who will tell her that she is beautiful, special, and valuable without a motive? Is my dark skin a curse or a blessing even though I love it’s silky smoothness? Am I limiting myself because I love the black men too much to leave them alone? Should I be okay being called jealous because I want the men I adore to adore me? Should I bring up how big of an ass black men acted towards the white guys I dated? Should I bring up how a lot of black men I dated told me I was too soft and if they wanted a woman like me they would just date a white woman? Should I bring up how I am called prissy, high classed, picky, soft, and too girly by the blue collar workers that some commenter like to bring up and too black, too thick, and hair too nappy by the other side of the coin? We just can win.
No one is mad about the love shown to white women, but why does that love translate to hate black to black women.
John, why didn’t you answer my questions?
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@peanut
I loved your link from the biracial daughter’s point of view.. Thank you so much for that!
I don’t know why you would let anyone beat you down! You come across as very articulate and caring… I would hope that the majority of men would see that.
@thordaddy and tyrone
You make me wish I was illerate. Seriously.
I can’t speak for anyone, but myself, so here goes! I am white and have dated black and white men, and for me it’s a matter of character and strength. Color has no bearing if you are weak. Any man that would bash a woman that is the same color as his mother is weak. A man that lowers himself to talking horribly about any woman would do it to me.. So you hate black women for this and that; what about if we go wrong? Are you then going to move on to Asian, because white women are this and that? Men, of all colors, should should be aware of how they speak about any woman. That being said, I have only experienced black woman making comments about myself and a black man dating ” what no white men were available”, “you’re just arm candy, he’ll come home”, or may personal favorite, “it’s not bad enough your granddaddy raped my grandma, now you have to take our men.”. Those experiences don’t even come close to the amazing experiences I had though. A loving, warm family doesn’t have color.
Some of my closest friends have been black woman, and they are absolutely amazing. They possess beauty inside and out just like my white girlfriends. IMO, class is the deciding factor for who makes the cut and who doesn’t. Someday, my beautiful, amazing, sweet, and proud biracial daughter will choose or not choose to align herself as more black or white, and whatever she chooses will have my full blessing, because I know she will know her full and diverse heritage. I also know she will know and appreciate that her worth doesn’t come from her being black or white, but from her being funny, sweet, smart, accepting, and beyond beautiful. Oh yeah, I’m blonde, fair skinned, and blue eyed! Ha!!
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still trying to figure out how ????? (JW) last post has to do with the thread.
Oh well. *shrugs*
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Sorry, phoebe, if I didn’t come across as angry. Is that all you have to use to attack me? I gave my opinion on black men and white women dating. I guess the part part where I was a white woman offended you. Did I screw up your logic of white equates to bad?
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@Camille,
I wasn’t talking to or about you. Scroll up and read a few of the most posts between myself, Bulanik and Demerera and you will see who ???? or (JW) is.
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I guess it was me doing the attacking.. I’m very sorry.
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@Camille,
No prob. It could have easily been interpreted differently cause it fell under your post.
@Peanut,
What the hell?!!! JW oops, i’m sorry we are not supposed to directly address comments to him is nuts.
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@Cleonette
I think beautiful, strong, educated black women probably intimidate some black men that have inner hate issues and may feel inadequate so they lean towards white women that put them on a pedestal. Just my opinion from reading some of the things on here.
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First of all, is it me or does John Washington seem a tad bit insane?
Second of all, I hope these two links will help shatter the stereotypes about black men loving white women while hating black women:
http://theblackmancan.org/?p=3057
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@brothawolf
I thought we weren’t supposed to mention his name lol….I thought the same thing after reading his first post 🙂
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^Exactly, that fool got issues. He seems to be one of those Diary of a Tired Black man forum posters.
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HEHE! Lol @ phoebe.
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Michelle,
I’m glad I’m not alone.
Phoebe,
Now that you mention it, he does.
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Me!
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@phoebeprunelle
the problem is you are never going to get black men like ????? (i.e. Diary of a Tired Black Man forum posters and the like) to realize that black slavery and white injustices are not the fault of black women
I hear what you say are saying however, the fact that an individual feels the need to apportion ‘blame’ to someone suggests that they know on some level, there is something dishonest and unpleasant going on – that the sh*t needs shifting as the truth is just to ugly to contemplate. Whilst I dont anticpate changing peoples minds I am loathe to sit back and watch whilst damaging statements are made – at the very least, anyone not aware of this part of history will see two sides and this may encourage them to seek out the ‘truth’.
@Brothawolf
First of all, is it me or does ???? ?????????? seem a tad bit insane?
Tut tut Brotha, you are not to refer to him by name, like the moniker Prince used for a while, perhaps Symbol is more preferable instead? 😉
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The character assasinations on here are worthless as the people who use. Now I’m insane? But there’s a thin line between insanity and genuis. But also mind you that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I guess that would continuing to try to bring this horse to water.
People in general never really accept change they fight it to the very end. Change has a way of sweeping or creeping closed minds into action.
Black people have some major issues.
We have problems secret societies of Black Greeks selling us out.
We have issues with Blackwomen some of them not taking up the responsibilty heading culture in the proper manner.
And we are for the most parts cowards.
We have problems with Blackmen beng lazy and not enterprising.
Some of you have very flat perceptions mind you but I don’t want to point out anyone specific because it seems pretty rampant and too many people to fight at one time.
The Bible speaks of a virtous woman Proverbs 31. I suggest that many of you read that and find some wisdom. Debating with fools is foolish!
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Go away troll!
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I was wondering if any of you may have considered that some white women are attracted to black men because the white men they have met in their lives go against their anti-racist beliefs and would not want to be with someone like that? I am not saying these women intentionally sought out black men…just that they met a black man that treated them with respect and was everything they wanted in a relationship. I am curious about your thoughts on this.
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@Michelle,
I can think of one immediately. Actress Tyne Daly. She refused to raise her daughters “biracial” and they have grown to be– as she puts it –“two beautiful black women”.
Sure there are more examples of this. But i do admire Tyne for actually loving black and teaching her girls to do the same.
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@Michelle
I was wondering if any of you may have considered that some white women are attracted to black men because the white men they have met in their lives go against their anti-racist beliefs and would not want to be with someone like that?
Hmmm, I dont know Michelle. Call me cynical but I dont believe that people have that conciousness attuned when they are looking for a mate. I think that as they get to know each other that, if it was importannt to the individual it could become a factor but, I doubt that people would necessarily find out from the get go and, when the WW gradually finds out her WM is racist/narrow minded/bigoted, then it is sometimes ‘too late’ and all that happens is that the WW ends up ‘fielding’ said WM racist behaviour and making excuses for it.
I am not saying these women intentionally sought out black men…just that they met a black man that treated them with respect and was everything they wanted in a relationship. I am curious about your thoughts on this.
I do know WW who have and will only date BM. One woman was only interested in West Indian BM or another who only liked ‘blue black’ black men *smh*. I think we all have our ‘type’ of mate but this can be very limiting IMO.
Do you think that there is a stigma against WW who seek BM exclusively?
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@Pheobeprunelle
Wow…I have always loved her as an actress, but never knew about her personal life. I just googled her and her daughters. Kathryne Dora Brown is absolutely stunning. I think it is refreshing to see other white women that are “loving black”. I have never understood why some white women choose to deny their children their culture and teach them awful things about black women. I have met so many beautiful and strong black women of various complexions and I just don’t understand the stereotype that has been discussed here and why some black men use that stereotype to hurt black women. Thank you so much for responding. 🙂
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@Demerera
I am not sure what all WW think when they are looking for a mate…but from my personal experience…I have met WW that only date BM because that is their preference and they either don’t know why or just won’t say why. I have also met WW that didn’t “choose” BM because they were black…they said they met a guy, who happened to be black, and treated them the way they wanted. But I dated my first black boyfriend when I was 16 yrs old. I mentioned what led to it in a previous comment here. (too long to retype). I don’t personally feel that there is anything wrong with WW exclusively dating BM. I feel that everyone has their own ideas of what they find attractive and they tend to lean towards those things, like…tall, dark and handsome or blues eyes, green eyes, brown eyes, or black, blonde, red, brown hair…I think the same can be said for complexion as well. But I know from experience that others place a stigma on WW that date BM. I was labeled as “ruined”, a lot of WM did not want to date me when they found out I had dated BM…and when I did have a black boyfriend…white people would make nasty comments or stare with disgusted looks while shaking their head. I have even had them approach us and tell us how disgusting I was and that I need “Jesus” to purify me.
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@Michelle
You are right – there are a variety of reasons why people end up with who they end up with. As long as its only for good and right reasons, thats all that matters I guess….
Tell me Michelle, I have encountered WW who are with BM who see other BW as a threat. What, if any is your experience of this? Strange thing is, often these BM are generally not interested in BW but their mate’s dont seem to be aware of this…
a lot of WM did not want to date me when they found out I had dated BM…
I’ve always felt that this was more about the so called, ehm, physicality of black men and how well they are endowed than anything else. A kind of jealousy – perhaps someone can clarify this?
and when I did have a black boyfriend…white people would make nasty comments or stare with disgusted looks while shaking their head.
Shame isnt it, when people can mind their own bl00min business. You often find those quoting biblical texts at you have the most to hide….
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I have seen this in various settings. I honestly don’t get it. There are enough black men who exclusively date/marry white women so there is no need for those that do to feel threatened because there is an even larger number of those who exclusively date/marry black women and most black women are going to end up with the latter group. I doubt any black woman in her right mind would chase and pursue the black men who aren’t interested in her because she’s black and i highly doubt the black men that prefer black women will stop in their pursuits, so its a win win for everybody.
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@Bulanik
I’ve sometimes wondered whether black men who behave this way – as there are some who have and do – because they fear black female disapproval and want to show a kind of ‘defiance’ literally in the face of black women
I certainly dont doubt this at all. BW probably do become sexless to BM who exclusively date WW. They become the disapproving Aunts/nans/mothers/sisters who will kiss their teeth and tell that BM about himself – their entitlement as relations.
Some BM accept this as a given however, for some, maybe the balance was not as apparent – the recognition of both good and bad and this has left a negative imprint in the mind of said BM and instead of acknowledging that not ALL BW are the same, he pursues WW as a preference.
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If he still cares about what black women think–he is still thinking about them in some way.
Its like when i was in secondary school. My boyfriend and i would break up–a lot. Then instead of just being mature and moving on, we would end up going out of our way to sabotage one another. Simply because i still liked him and he still liked me–whether or nor we ever put it into those words.
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@Demerera
“Tell me Michelle, I have encountered WW who are with BM who see other BW as a threat. What, if any is your experience of this?”
From my experience there are a few different reasons for seeing other BW as a threat…first is some of the women had bad encounters with BW that did not approve and in their minds they categorized all BW to feel that way. I have met WW that never would say it, even when I asked… but I could see they were jealous if a beautiful BW was near her boyfriend or talking to him. In my opinion I think the fear of losing their boyfriend to “their own kind”…I gathered that from the few WW that actually spoke up about their fears and those situations were similar to the behavior of the WW that wouldn’t say they were jealous or afraid of losing him. In my personal experience…I had a two boyfriends that I never thought about anyone else because he showed me everyday I was the only one. But there were a few that I realized that the only threat was themselves and their incapacity to settle down with anyone…but they had no interest in BW…only WW. I have only had one boyfriend that did not have a preference other than beauty and personality.
a lot of WM did not want to date me when they found out I had dated BM…
“I’ve always felt that this was more about the so called, ehm, physicality of black men and how well they are endowed than anything else. A kind of jealousy – perhaps someone can clarify this?”
I think that has a lot to do with it. I have had WM that were disgusted because they see BM as “dirty” and “vile”. Not sure why they think that because I usually cut them off and told them just how “dirty” and “vile” they were and walked away. The really crazy thing is that a lot of WM assumed that if you dated a BM you had to have had sex with them. That there was no way that if you dated a BM that wasn’t involved. I found that to be crazy because I have dated and not had sex. But they won’t believe it. I found my self in conversations with WM that I worked with and they had some very strong beliefs that could not be swayed. They think that BM are only about sex. I do feel that there are some insecurities about the endowment…but they are usually not going to admit it. My husband has a good sense of humor about it. He will tell me about times, in the military, when he would have to take a shower standing next to someone…and he would walk in, look down, and immediately want to turn around and walk out. I think a lot of men “compare”.
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^@Michelle,
I think the WW you spoke of should have just befriended black women and got to know them better instead of just fearing that they would lose the black men they were involved with.
If you take the time to get to know your perceived opponent, you will find that beautiful or not so beautiful, they are human with fears and insecurities just like you.
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Btw. . . men–once they are committed to a woman–that is pretty much where they are going to be. It will take something very extreme to make them walk away.
As many times as i have experimented with seeing what will make my husband tick–it just never works and he is still there the next day.
🙂
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@phoebeprunelle
I doubt any black woman in her right mind would chase and pursue the black men who aren’t interested in her because she’s black and i highly doubt the black men that prefer black women will stop in their pursuits, so its a win win for everybody.
True, I for one have never sat lamenting about X BM being with Y WW. My friend used to think that this was why BW never took to her and I had to point out (in a nice way) that this actually wasnt the case and that it was a flaw in her personality which I could see past, which was the most likely reason as to why BW were seemingly hostile towards her i.e. the way she would grab his hand when she went past said BW as if she literally thought they were going to run off and elope with him – guarded to the point of jealousy if he spoke to old school friends.
I get fed up with the hypocrisy of BM who dislike BW being with WM though, particularly the ones who flout the fact that they date WW in preference to BW.
@Michelle
I think that has a lot to do with it. I have had WM that were disgusted because they see BM as “dirty” and “vile”. Not sure why they think that because I usually cut them off and told them just how “dirty” and “vile” they were and walked away.
Yes, funny and odd how these things get perpetuated. It could be said that some WM appear more than a little sexually repressed and perhaps BM by comparison appear more sexually liberated hence the perception but, each ‘race’ of man has their fare share of nasty and vile individuals as we all know.
From the comments that WM have made to me about BM it is less to do with the purity of said WW and more to do with the BM’s perceived prowess and the size of their ‘members’ that WM feel they could never properly measure up to.
Typical men – always having ‘Pi$$ing’ contests 🙂
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@bulanik
I wonder if couples like this have girl children together, how this ambivalence towards black females translates onto them?
Yes. There is no doubt it can and will have a detrimental effect on the female child of such a union. I will hazard a guess that, unless they have ‘other’ black female role models within their upbringing to bring balance to this, i’m sure these females would probably want to leave behind the ‘black’ side of them behind as much as possible.
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i Dont Speak To Anyone Directly On Here So Dont Direct Your Comments Towards Me.
Why Not? Your Comments Just Call Out To Be Pilloried And Mocked, Plus It Would Serve As Excellent Entertainment!
accusing People Of Wrong Doing When They Have Done No Wrong Is Very Wrong!
A Brilliant Deduction!
first Of All, Is It Me Or Does John Washington Seem A Tad Bit Insane?
Nope. Not Only Is He Insane, But He Comes Across As A Kerchief Head. As To Why These Black Men Hook Up With These Skanks, I Mean White Women Is Ultimately Anyone’s Guess. As Long As They Aren’t Eyeballing, Hitting On Or Trying To Hook Up With The Men In My Immediate Family, I Couldn’t Care Less.
the Character Assasinations On Here Are Worthless As The People Who Use.
Yes, But They Are Comical In Certain Instances, As Are Yours!
but Theres A Thin Line Between Insanity And Genuis.
Too Bad You Possess The Former Rather Than The Latter.
debating With Fools Is Foolish!
Yes But It Is Fun! It Breaks The Monotony Of Household Chores! There is something wrong with my clipboard software, hence the capitalization.
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“As To Why These Black Men Hook Up With These Skanks, I Mean White Women Is Ultimately Anyone’s Guess. As Long As They Aren’t Eyeballing, Hitting On Or Trying To Hook Up With The Men In My Immediate Family, I Couldn’t Care Less.”
Ha! Obviously, you do care. Are you kidding me? If I replaced black men with white men and white women with black women, everyone would be up in arms about it. So what if someone in your immediate family wants to date a white, latino, or even a Asian girl? If a white parent told their white daughter she couldn’t date a black man; that’s racist, but a black parent does it; that’s considered loving your black king or queen? Absurd. Shouldn’t race relations be furthered through honest discussion and understanding? I have read some awesome exchanges on here, but they still are based on the premise that the majority of people of this or that certain color have predetermined behaviors or patterns.
White women that get jealous if their man is talking to a black woman? That’s not the standard; that’s an insecure woman. That would be the same woman that gets jealous if her guy is talking to any woman. Women are women… The vast majority of my white, black, and latina friends have no problem with interracial dating, and they don’t try to tear another woman down by classifying them based on color or the color of the person they are dating. There are more important things to base a man or woman on: is their family, values, goals, morals, religion like mine? Also, I date white and black guys and none of the white guys have even cared that I have biracial daughter. Someone that would be bothered by something like that isn’t worthy of your time. We all have our different upbringings and we all have unique qualities that are passed on through our families, but moreso than that most of us have the innate ability to discern right from wrong.
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@Camille
If a white parent told their white daughter she couldn’t date a black man; that’s racist, but a black parent does it; that’s considered loving your black king or queen? Absurd.
Who said this? Please, reference the comment.
White women that get jealous if their man is talking to a black woman? That’s not the standard; that’s an insecure woman. That would be the same woman that gets jealous if her guy is talking to any woman. Women are women…
I don’t recall saying this was the standard Camille. Please look at the context within which that particular question was posed. It was based on experiences I have had. If you need me to be specific, this is not the case with ALL WW in IR relationships that I have encountered and neither do I think I portrayed it in this way. It was trying to understand why they would feel ‘threatened’ despite knowing the history of their partner and knowing, in these particular instances, that their partner exclusively dates WW only. I think Michelles response that In my opinion I think the fear of losing their boyfriend to “their own kind”… does have some credence but, you are also right in stating that essentially, the individual must be insecure.
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@peanut
because I’ve noticed MOST of the Black men who are fixated on skin color and truly have these stereotypes about white women end up being in dysfunctional relationships that fail. I believe that is because when you focus on such a superficial characteristic liek skin color and you go into a relationship EXPECTING that it will be easier just because said woman has pink/white skin…you’re not truly seeing the person for WHO they are and you’re setting your relationship up to fail.
Yes. Anyone who enters into a relationship based with superficial expectations is potentially heading for disaster. Unfortunately, IRR can still evoke some nasty reactions in people in some parts of the world. It needs both people in that relationship to be strong enough to support one another through it.
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Peanut, no offense–Srgt. Willie Pete is a thirty-something year old man that lives at home with his parents who has had terrible luck dating any woman. Anybody that takes this fool seriously needs psycho therapy.
A thirty something year old man who spends most of his time making youtube videos to diss others is telling in and of itself.
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It is considered racist for a white family to forbid their children to date outside of their race, as it should be. It’s racist to base an opinion on someone based solely on color. It’s for anyone to do that, but I see in some of the posts on this blog and other is more readily accepted.
I wasn’t making that statement to single you out at all, and I don’t think that you meant all ww. I’ve read you’re previous posts and I trust that you were only speaking a thought not being combative in anyway.
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Sorry, not a thought… Speaking your experience.
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Are You Kidding Me?
Well yes I was. What was your first clue?
@Phoebeprunelle:
Who watches these lunatic videos? The descriptions of these guys are satirical in nature.
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The small minority of black men who frequent the Diary of a Tired Black Man and Black Men Vent forums. These black men are self described “nerds” and claim that ALL the quality black women prefer thugs, deadbeats and playas thus reinforcing every negative stereotype about black women so these men have “upgraded” to foreign born white and Asian women.
When you look at the volume of these forums, it suggests that these said men spend more time online with faceless wimps that co-sign everything they say instead of being in the happy arms of “better” women. I have come to the conclusion that these men are nothing more than black men who worship black penis. Sad. . . i know.
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@peanut
I was just being sarcastic. I think the statement was absolutely horrible. I thought that it was meant to wound and humiliate me when I hadn’t done anything to deserve it, and I had no way to defend myself.
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@peanut
I can’t believe you turned out to be this lame!!! You were one of my top Candidates too! What a shame….
I understand that you watched some black woman hating videos on Youtube. But you chose to continue watching. You chose to continue clicking on their playlists. You chose to make Sgt. Willie Pete your avatar for black opinions.
I think that. somewhere,in the back of your mind, you always thought that black men were black women haters, Willie Pete and the rest of them just gave you the excuse you needed.
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@Camille
“It is considered racist for a white family to forbid their children to date outside of their race, as it should be. It’s racist to base an opinion on someone based solely on color. It’s for anyone to do that, but I see in some of the posts on this blog and other is more readily accepted.”
It is my opinion…that it is only a double standard if the sole reason is because of “color of skin”. From my experience…I have met black families that were trying to protect their children from white racism….that in my opinion,…is not racist.
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@Camille
From my experience…I have spoken with mothers that liked me and felt that I would never hurt their son…but if they thought for one instant that one of my family members or someone from my racist town…would bring harm to their son or family…our relationship would be over! You have to respect that and not let your feelings for the person get your priorities mixed up. Safety for them should be priority over wanting to be with them. Just my opinion though.
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I can completely agree with that. I understand the older generations, especially in the black community, feeling that way. I can see how my parents generation would be apprehensive with their black son or daughter dating interracially considering they witnessed segregation and the civil rights movement. My perspective comes solely from a younger generations viewpoint and a white perspective. I don’t pretend to be able to empathize with being a target of racism, but I can be compassionate about it.
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@Camille
I think it is fair to say that even the younger generation are concerned with the safety of their family…also…even if safety wasn’t an issue…there is always differences and drama that comes with interracial dating…and maybe there are some people that just don’t want that in their family. White racism is still very prevalent today. I am not sure how old you are and how much of the world you have seen…but over time you may have more experiences and be able to understand. The best thing I can tell you is to stick with this site and read and learn about the experiences of POC. Ask questions and don’t assume…because if you just read one comment from a person it does not tell you everything about them.
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The more i read what the black men over on diary of a tired black forums say, the more i begin to see how strange this really is.
A number of black men on the internet and other outlets who really deep down believe that white women and non black women are running past white men and other non black men to get to them is only the case in the west.
When i am in Africa–the black woman’s femininity or abilities are rarely ever questioned. African women tend to be all African men need and vice versa. Yes there are nice white people living and working in Africa but they overwhelmingly marry other white people there. Even in an African country, where television, print, radio and govenment is going to be black, the whites are not internalizing this and going “oh African women make better wives” or “oh African men are much more masculine, etc, etc.
What i don’t understand is how the BWEs and Black Male Venters are going to raise black and brown children that are the products of their unions with non black men and women. This is frightening! What would they teach their biracial sons and daughters about love and acceptance? That the whiter the better? Only whites can love you and only they have your best interest in mind? This is truly strange as it was largely the government policies of white men and women that created the educational and political imbalances for black people to begin with.
I ask what the hell?????????
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I agree with you, Phoebe. My father was raised in Niger and we go back fairly often, I have never encountered any biracial couples there. The black woman is very respected in the culture, but I don’t think the two cultures mix in the same way as Americans. I never experienced racism over there, but I did see the tensions between the Christians and the Muslims.
I don’t know if I would give too much credit to white women on government and educational programs though. Women, in general, have just now started to rise through the ranks in the political sphere.
Phoebe, how many black men do you think are self hating? I haven’t ever heard a black man talk bad about a black woman, but it’s never been something I would think to bring up in a conversation. I always thought of it as more of a natrual thing since people are so blended now.. at least where I am. It seems natrual to me that people regardless of color would start being attracted to each other when they live, socialize, and work more closely together.
Michelle, are you trying to call me naive? If so, you are mistaken. Please keep your motherly patronizing to yourself. Also, this blog is interesting, but very biased. Abagond stated that very clearly. Thanks!
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@Camille, girl you know i can’t give you an exact figure, lol.. .but i will say this, black people in the West are defined by European standards. My answer in short is that it ain’t just black men, it is a large volume of black men and women in general who suffer from a deep psychological hate of their Africanity.
Now don’t confuse me. Just because a black person is committed to a white person does not mean they hate themselves. Also just because a black person is committed to another black person does not mean that they love their Africanity. It is only when a black person refuses to acknowledge the weight of history, their ancestors, their being and cannot find any redemptive qualities in other Africans that this thing truly becomes a problem and Michelle what i just described can happen no matter who the black person is with romantically.
I hope some of this makes sense, and i hope you realize that i am not against whites but love them as well as we all sprang from the same common ancestor from Africa millenia ago. But we cannot deny what has happened between us in the last 2,000 plus years–as it may not seem like it, but it is recent history.
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I can completely see your point. You articulated it very well, and I agree with you.
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*sighs*
I think i am done with this topic…it’s too tiring.
We can’t and will never know the motives of why black men are with who they are with..or vice versa.
Live and let live!
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@John, It is completely dishonest and disgusting to use Sallie Hemmings, a ENSLAVED woman of African descent, who was passed down as PROPERTY to her SLAVE MASTERS children, in Thomas Jeffersons will. She is LISTED along with furnishings and other PROPERTY!!! She was old by then and he still never freed her or gave her anything for years of abuse and misuse!!! And if you really studied the HonoRebel Marcus Mosiah Garvey, you would know his censorship was reserved for BLACK MEN and their lack of focus, bravery and dedication to our LIBERATION!!! The UNIA was successful because Garvey respected the abilities of BLACK WOMEN who had numerous leadership positions in that organization which was larger and more successful than any since including the civil rights movement!!! You need to study long as apparently you have studied WRONG!!!
PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF!!!
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This post is very interesting!
I was surprise how some white women were able to abandon their white men when they slept with some west African men and decided to marry them. Of course if am a white man i’ll be paranoid and even hates blackmen…..Blackmen are more like sexual being. As a blackman we sometimes view white women as sluts. I agree with the autor white women are easy going, i think blackwomen needs to be educated and learn from white girls.
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Tell ’em Brother; these prudish, non fellatio giving black women need to get with the program so they can keep a man!
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I am a child of a white woman & black man, which was based on love, I do however think some black men & white women exoticize each other, I have come across white girls who say they want to be with a black guy because of the size of his penis which is tacky. True genuine interracial relationship between black men & white women, that aren’t based on stereotypes hold more value in my opinion. Black men are also guility of sometimes stereoptyping white women eg. saying they are easier to get on with, I think interracial relationships which are not based on stereotypes are more likely to last.
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I think that it is wrong to judge anyone… plenty of people are in relationships for both right or wrong reasons, being black or white should not be right or wrong… nor should it matter the color of the person you marry, people are people the sooner everyone wakes up and realizes that the better.
I am white and I have a black boyfriend, we fell in love with each other for who the other one is as a person, and when i think of him as a person i don’t see any color instead i see things like honesty, integrity, respect, love, dignity, kindness, intellect and much more and it is likewise for him. I am sure if either of us were a different color it certainly would not have changed us meeting and falling in love.
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It is simply astounding the number of people who so eagerly give advice to strangers as to whom they should or should not date. As long as I am making my own choices in life, who am I to direct the lovelives of others? And even if I am NOT making my own choices as to whom I should ‘get with’, that’s just my little red wagon isn’t it?! I still don’t get to direct the lives of others.
People can date whichever consenting adult of their choice, and for whichever reason, as it is simply none of my business.
The Black men who make smug comments about how white women are so much better at this or that in comparison to Black women feel free to do so because they think they have options and that most Black women do not. These kinds of statements do not hurt my feelings as a Black woman because I KNOW for a fact that I DO have options. I do not have to kowtow to men of any race who make it clear that they do not want me, as I know that there are other men who do.
Begging men to “come back home” or to do what “they are supposed to do” is mostly a losing proposition for the women who resort to such a strategy, as this doubtlessly causes the men to dig their heels in even deeper since most people will usually only resort to begging when they have no actual bargaining chips to offer.
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Hi,
this notion is so strange and only comes across online because in everyday life I see most black men with black women. In some cases you will see lots of interracial couples but to be fair, it’s not just black men but also black women doing it. I think given how society is set up we black women are quick to get insecure but the fact is that most black men are with and will always prefer black women and also many Latino men and others are open to black women, even some Asian men. In Japan, many men were attracted to me, even if it was just a physical thing, they still were.
The funny thing about IR with whites is that most times it never lasts. I also never understood how some blacks can be so quick to get into a relationship with white people, given how society is. It’s not just black men, we can sit and judge them but let’s be honest. Many Black women dog black men out on the internet and put white men on a false pedastal as well. Saying false things such as white men are more open to natural hair and dark skin, which is bull. Most white men don’t like blacks, let alone those two features, whereas you will see black men with black women with those features all the time.
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