Thandeka at the end of her book “Learning to be White” (1999) has a primer. She means American white. She does not break it down into a list of rules, but I will for easier understanding:
Rule #1: Pass for white.
Yes, even whites must pass for white. But this means more than just looking physically like you are pure European by blood. It means acting white too. And not just any kind of white either, but an upper-middle-class White American sort of white, what Norman Podhoretz calls a “facsimile Wasp”.
It means talking and dressing like them, sharing their tastes and outlooks, not being too “different” – to assimilate into their culture, their world.
As Jews and many others who came to America from Europe discovered, they had to hide where they came from, any sign that they had ever been anything other than an upper-middle-class White American. They had to give up most of their culture and take on an Anglo one.
Rule #2: Disown your true self.
White Americans want their children to be perfect. They do not want them to be their true selves. That would make them “different” and “different” is bad. Yes, the “white is right” thinking is applied even (or especially) to whites themselves. It has its roots in Puritan ideas about sin.
White parents shape their children by conditional love. Their children, to keep their parents’ abusive, conditional love, the only love they know, disown those parts of their true selves their parents think are too “different”.
They are no longer whole inside but broken. They show only part of themselves to the world, hiding the rest out of shame. A shame they deny and are too afraid to face but which lies at the heart of their being. Thandeka calls this white shame.
The anger that should be directed against their parents is instead directed against blacks and others who have been racialized as “different”.
Rule #3: Act racist when required.
Notice I said “act”, not “be”. Thandeka points out that many whites will act in racist ways even though they have no racist beliefs themselves, even when they must go against their own ideas of right and wrong. Why? Because they do not want to become an outcast among whites – particularly the whites in their family or at school or work, particularly their own parents.
For example, whites will remain silent when they know they should speak up about something racist that was said or done. Or they will not marry blacks because their family disapproves. Etc.
These acts are not without cost: they add to one’s white shame and therefore to one’s brokenness.
Comment: Thandeka’s model makes sense of why so many whites seem fake and why they think being different means you are screwed up somehow.
It also falls somewhat close to what I have said myself about the white club and the five walls of racism.
See also:
One question:
If I’m white, but I’m not an Anglo, WASP, American upper-middle class white… Am I white?
These points make sense, but I am confused about the third one: acting racist instead of being racist. I know the opposite situation is possible (someone is racist but doesn’t act on it). But this? Isn’t acting racist, even without racist thoughts, a form of racism?
Sure, it’s not the same sort of racism like the hateful, KKK kind, but it is racism. It’s also the type of racism that people often refuse to believe in, because a) most of them have it and b) they truly believe they don’t hate people of other races (and often, they don’t).
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Sorry A, but this post is kind of untrue. You might be talking about s specific kind of whiteness here.
Just saying something like “White Americans want their children to be perfect.”
…is such a simplistic blanket statement that I don’t, really, know what to say. I’m not offended, it’s just not correct.
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I like the picture with the bear better.
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@ Abagond is there a black version to this?
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The black version is just to change a few words here and there. It can fit any culture and any race, generically.
There is a counterpart to the WASP stereotype in every culture.
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What does it mean, exactly, that the whites have to pass for white? Is it about phenotype or behavior? I thought that the phenotype determines it; you can behave whatever you like and be of any culture: if you appear white, you are seen as white. End of story.
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Mira, I am a white person who, among other white people, does not pass for white (after I open my mouth, sometimes before). I mainly do not “pass,” though, because I choose not to. I am visibly uncomfortable and out of place in their presence for many of the reasons below.
Things that will be red flags to other WP:
– most importantly YOU WERE BORN BENEATH THE MIDDLE CLASS and you don’t mind talking about it (“real” WP can’t relate, and they don’t want to hear your sob stories, so shut up and blend in…or just shut up and stop calling attention to yourself)
– being seen associating with POC more frequently than with WP (this makes you look like a wannabe, someone not satisfied with the company of real WP) …unless your field REQUIRES that you associate with POC, then you might be excused…as long as your social life stays white.
– having no white friends (an obvious sign of your inability to be white properly, because no one wants to be your friend)
– having a heavy accent (country, NY, Boston, Russian, French)
– not dressing very well (even if you shop at Target and your clothing is clean and pressed, you’re still outside of their images of opulence)
– being brutally honest with people (not to be confused with being a “bitch” or a “dick” – but being genuine in one’s responses)
– being unable to talk about things that exist in their culture (I don’t watch TV so this excludes me from a lot of pop-culture which is the only culture they have.)
– ladies: not wearing make-up and getting ‘mani-pedis’ (now, women from all cultures can wear makeup and get their nails done, however – this won’t make them convincingly white enough. But if you’re white and you neglect this: you do not care about your appearance, even if you’re only 20 years old and don’t need makeup. Not caring about one’s appearance is a problem – hence the popularity of “glamour sweats” so women can go out in public in their lounge-wear and *seem* like they don’t care when in actuality their sweats cost as much as a suit they could wear to work).
– having children early in life
– having children out of wedlock
– having no plans for marriage with or without children (this mostly applies to women – men can be bachelors forever)
– not attending college, even if you don’t know what you want to do with yourself
– attending a vocational school
– having a blue-collar job, even if it earns high wages
Hope that helps 🙂
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That’s what I always thought, also, Mira. except in this instance, to me, “white (middle class)” is used in the same way as Russian would be. Drop an American in Russia and he will blend in superficially, but as soon as he opens his mouth or even goes out for a drink with friends, he will stand out like a sore thumb. Small little things always trip you up. Especially when those things also include class, when whole industries are
Disown your own true self is such a broad blanket statement. It covers almost every family situation that we (and not necessarily the rest of the world) would deem dysfunctional.
The act racist part is something I think everyone has encountered at one time or another in their life when they are confronted by a situation where they can either conform or stand out. I’ve had that situation happen to me more than a few times since I was a kid. The latest one was last week when I was out with shopping with a new co-worker. We were in the girls section and there were some pants with a hideous flower print on them in a washed out purple. I held them up and said to her ‘ Who the heck would make their kids wear this?” and she came out with “I wouldn’t, but you know white people would.” All I could say was “Don’t do that.”
Sorry, I really think this post could have been written about any group of people, not just white.
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Ok, please just change the “White people’ designation to WASP in all it’s stereotypical glory and what Victoria says, works, for the most part. More than half of what you said is true about any culture, race, region, etc and can be flipped back on itself.
The black equivalent to the WASP is the Black Militant. Wait, even those two have similar goals and views.
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As the white people are pointing out here, if you want to understand white experience, you’ll be better off reading or listening to white people on the subject. Your “five walls” is pretty useless as well.
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@Sagredo
On the other hand, i find their reactions quite interesting.
Most don’t seem to get it , even Mira and all would like it rewritten according to their own different understanding.
I wonder why.
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Marci,
The Black Militant isn’t the equivalent. They do not dominate Black culture, nor is the ideology class related in the Black society.
Many Black people have striven to the WASP stereotype, hoping to change the stereotype of themselves or to be able to move up; college, job.
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@ JGreyden
And why should a Black perspective on Whiteness be more valid that a White perspective on Whiteness?
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To me they intersect in a lot of ways, both acting as vanguards of a particular subculture. What do you think would be the black equivalent to a WASP?
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@King
Well, it’s already hard to integrate the fact that an observed phenomenon could not be dissociated from its observer.
So when the phenomenon and the observer are one and same and not aware of it… hmm.
Anyway, I had nothing against a white perspective on whiteness in my comment, i was just wondering about the several dismissal and rewriting attempts.
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Marci,
WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) isn’t a subculture in America. Most of the original colonist were such, with a sprinkling of
German Protestants. The Scotch Irish of the south were not Catholic. There were very few Jews and later the immigrants that had problems assimilating were Catholic, the Irish, Italians and Eastern Europeans( not Roman, but not Protestant).
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I don’t want it rewritten. I was just confused about the whole “passing fro white” thing. I assumed it’s all down to your phenotype. If you reject white culture and its ways, of course, you won’t be welcomed among those people; but even in those instances, you’d be seen as white and will receive white privilege. Right?
Victoria,
Thank you for your detailed answer.
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@ J. Greyden
But wouldn’t the problem of observed prospective, that you describe, also mean that Blacks face a paradox that Whites do not when describing say… the Black family?
Would this not give Whites a more objective perspective into how Black families think and relate, because they can observe the phenomenon of Blackness from without?
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“Anyway, I had nothing against a white perspective on whiteness in my comment, i was just wondering about the several dismissal and rewriting attempts.”
Well, the OP takes the attributes of a racial sub-culture and applies it to the entire race. So I would say that makes it a stereotype. It may not be a big deal because whites aren’t oppressed but that doesn’t make it valid.
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@King
The nature of the observer is an important parameter. That’s actually what i wanted to point out, that the observer is far from being a neutral entity.
Actually your question should have been as follow:
Would a Black family observed by an individual who self identify as a White person be objectively described?
So you can tell from the question, it’s not the quality of the Black family that matters.
@jasonburns
How strange. Maybe we have different expectation while reading Abagond’s post.
Abagond grabbing some facts and trying to make sense of them, and others dismissing those facts because the theories behind them do not make sense.
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As it is written here, I really do think it is more of a sub-culture now and not an all dominating one. I’m not trying to downplay WASP culture in the past, nor now, though it may seem that way. I am pointing out that in this posting you can substitute black for white and it fits. You can substitute a lot of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds for white and it fits.
Gah, I always say I suck at explaining things and this is no different. I still stand by what I said in my original posting, change plain ‘white’ to WASP and this posting fits moreso. Otherwise it’s just generic stuff that applies to any culture and race.
I know about the Protestant work ethic: I have a German dad and god knows he lives and breathes it.
I’m also sorry if some cannot understand the Russian/American analogy. It does fit if you actually think about it. You have two white men, on the surface they could be brothers, but that supposition falls apart when you look closer.
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Its funny abagond how you seem to think you are an authority on the way white americans think and feel. It makes me wonder if you are friends with any white people, and if you are you are a back stabber.
From one of your rotten apples.
Don’t blame it on anyone else, if you wrote it chances are you believe it.
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dave:
This post presents my understanding of what Thandeka said in her book. I do not necessarily agree with all of it. But I do find it interesting because it does help to make sense of certain things. So I am throwing it out there to see what others think.
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@ Victoria: Wonderful list. Thank you.
@ Mira:
Thandeka is talking about American whiteness only, and in particular the kind you need to get ahead and be accepted by the upper-middle-class. For that you need more than just the right phenotype – you also need to dress right, have the right sort of accent etc. You need to be pretty much assimilated into their culture.
If you came to America you would generally be considered white – the police would not stop you unnecessarily, white people would not think about selling their house if you moved next door, etc. On the other hand you would always be seen as a foreigner, an outsider, if you speak with a foreign accent, etc.
Tons of white people have come to America from all parts of Europe. Their cultures have been pretty much wiped out – except for maybe certain foods or holidays or religious practices. And it is because of Rule #1.
The Jews faced this in the clearest terms. Even now they are not seen as no-doubt-about-it true-blue whites. They are White For Most Purposes – but not completely. They are stereotyped, for example. They are victims of hate crimes. Because they still hang onto their differentness.
And that is the whole point: white people have very hard time dealing with people being different. In most cases if you are different in any way – not just in race or religion or accent but even in personal tastes or interests – they assume something must be wrong with you. And Thandeka says it is because they have been taught to feel shame about their own differentness.
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The backlash to WASPness was the beatniks and hippies. During the fifties and sixties most white people understood what passing for white meant. Black people were not initially into defining WASP or their effects on society. The counter culture, media and literature were defining WASP. America was spoon-fed Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, Ozzie and Harriet and was reading John Updike and watching movies like The Apartment and High Society.
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The Jews faced this in the clearest terms. Even now they are not seen as no-doubt-about-it true-blue whites. They are White For Most Purposes – but not completely. They are stereotyped, for example. They are victims of hate crimes. Because they still hang onto their differentness.
Where I live (south FL), Jews are held in very high esteem. Our public schools honor Jewish holidays as well as Christian ones. Jews are perceived to be wealthy and to wield a lot of power. The stereotypes here are misguided but “positive” – rich, intelligent, high expectations, uncompromising in desires for quality, etc. No one calls them “cheap” or “stingy” as they would have maybe 20 years ago. Here, and probably only here – maybe NYC, Jews are perceived as the ideal white because they’re “different”. Their whiteness and the masking of “difference” when Jews began settling here allowed for them to move up the ladder and become financially dominant, if not dominant in other ways. Like, people will tell you that living in a Jewish neighborhood is good because the schools can’t be beat, and they’re properly funded. A Jewish doctor tends to be favored over any other. This is the sort of dominance I can’t put a name on. However, Orthodox Jews? Totally different story. They’re “too different.” White Jews are really interesting to observe (socially, not individually) here.
If you’re interested in that sort of thread, where pockets of people who aren’t white gain accepted and non-threatening dominance over WP, research the rise of political dominance of Cubans in Miami. Our new senator was born in Miami to Cuban parents who came over during the Castro takeover. He can easily pass for white, has absolutely no accent, yet he makes sure to inform people that he is Cuban –because it’s valuable here where Cubans have built strong communities and have not whitewashed completely as people had to do in the past. Very interesting.
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The pressure to assimilate into the mainstream of society which idealizes upper middle class WASP values isn’t the same thing as becoming white. There are people of color who have identical values who are not treated white and there are white people who don’t have those values who still are treated white. The only way the article makes sense is if we conflate every kind of bigotry with racism which I don’t think makes the problem clearer. A “wrong sort” of white person who deals with religious, class, national origin or other bigotry is still not experiencing racism except in the broadest “ill treatment due to difference” sort of meaning of the term. Which again is so broad as to be unuseful, to me.
Putting aside what is I guess a semantic quibble, Rule 1 and 3 sound about right. Rule 2 is very strange psychoanalysis though. Not quite sure what she’s getting at with that one. What are these secret differences that white people have that they’re suppressing? Would she describe a closeted gay person as having “white shame”?
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This article is good but I think there needs to be further breakdown.
Abagond should do articles of
1. the upper class
a. old money
b. new money
2. the middle class
a. the working clas with middle class salleries ex plummers
b. the degreed but debt ridden upper middle classes.
c. lower middle class
3. the lower class
a . working class
b. trailor parks &project
4. Hipsters and SWPL crowd
5. white immigrants
Hipsters need a caterogry all their own.
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What does it mean, exactly, that the whites have to pass for white? Is it about phenotype or behavior? I thought that the phenotype determines it; you can behave whatever you like and be of any culture: if you appear white, you are seen as white. End of story.
Mira, I have always understood whiteness/whites to be white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant and their cousins, Scandinavians and Germans/Dutch.
Why? WASP have been the dominant white culture since colonial days. That has been the dominant culture in the US.
In the early days, WASP race writers determined who was and wasn’t white. The original theory was that there were three RACES in Europe: Anglo/Germanic/Scandinavians were one, the Iberian/Mediterranean/Irish-Celtic were another and Eastern Europeans were the third. The whiteness of the latter two were questioned; the Mediterranean-Iberian people who thought too dark and descended from Middle Eastern people, and the Eastern Europeans were seen as too Asiatic.
In the US, the dominant culture was WASP and true Americans were thought to come from this stock.
Italians, Jews, Greeks and other types assimilated into the WASP culture, usually by changing their names to Anglo names, marrying Anglo women, converting to Protestantism, and improving their socio-economic class.
This way of thinking is coming to an end, and these non-Anglo/Germanic whites no longer do this, and no longer feel to. Now, whiteness is determined by how you look and how you identify rather than how WASP you are.
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Thanks for your explanation, Mel. I can’t help noticing it’s, basically, all down to how people in North America (US and, possibly, Canada) see you or people of your ethnicity.
the Eastern Europeans were seen as too Asiatic.
Huh? Whaat???
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@Marci, the black equivalent to WASPness is African-American culture. Many non-American blacks are held to the standards and culture of African-Americans.
During the 2008 presidential election, there was a big debate about whether Obama was black enough–the issue stemmed not for his biracial heritage, but from the fact that he did not descend from black American slave ancestors, and that he did not grow up in a “black” culture/neighborhood.
There are many black Americans on the Internet now insisting that only they are black and can use the term to define themselves.
Caribbean and African blacks are forced to conform to black American culture when they move to developed western countries. It’s insane.
If you are black, regardless of the part of the world you’re from, you’re expected to:
a) listen to Hip Hop
b) Care about Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton
c)Eat soul food
d) speak Ebonics
e) have an inner-city/low income upbringing.
Yout get the idea. If you don’t do any of this then you’re not seen as black by African-Americans.
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There is no such thing as a single “African-American culture” any more than there is a single “African culture.”
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Mel stated:
“If you are black, regardless of the part of the world you’re from, you’re expected to:
a) listen to Hip Hop
b) Care about Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton
c)Eat soul food
d) speak Ebonics
e) have an inner-city/low income upbringing.
Yout get the idea. If you don’t do any of this then you’re not seen as black by African-Americans.”
Sad but true…hell, even if one IS African-American, the expectation is the same – no, actually, it’s higher!! If one doesn’t adhere to those strict ‘rules’, they are labeled an OREO. I’ve been called that more times than I have fingers and toes…
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This topic reminds me of a book I had as a child: The Legend of Africania.
Anybody else here ever heard of it / read it / remember it?
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@ sepultura13
It was in my elementary school library.
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@ king
what is eminem appropriating then?
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@ jas0nburns
Mostly money $$$
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alright lol
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@King
That’s the one! I read it so often that the covers were faded, the binding was worn-out and the pages were nearly falling out, but I loved it dearly.
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@ sepultura13
I read it in the library, but had forgotten about it until you just mentioned it!
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Don’t pick at Eminem. I don’t care what anyone says, I like his music. lol
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@ Marci
I wasn’t. I think he’s great. But I have heard many people say that he is appropriating black culture. I don’t agree or disagree personally. I just think he’s a good rapper.
I’ve heard many people say that black culture can’t be defined. Yet, somehow whites are still able to appropriate it. I tend to believe that black culture can exist without every black person subscribing to any particular aspect of it. Just as it is with any other culture. The problem is that most whites don’t see it that way. (unless it’s us) We tend to see every black person as a walking, talking representative of what we think of as “blackness”. So the wariness of defining black culture doesn’t surprise me. If you define it, that’s what your limited to being in WP’s eyes.
Or so I would imagine.
.
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The main reason black culture is hard to define is that a) Africa is ethno-culturally the most diverse place on the planet. Ghana alone has over 22 languages spoken there.
Add the Caribbean culture(s) and black American and Afro-Latin cultures and it’s crazy.
HOWEVER, most people don’t care for this. All black people are judged by American Hip Hop culture/lifestyle and are expected to behave accordingly, regardless of where in the world they’re from.
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Eminem IS emulating A BLACK CULTURE. He is not emulating THE BLACK CULTURE. Hip hop, is a Black cultural invention. That doesn’t mean that White people can’t rap, or buy rap music.
However, there are a LOT of other Black cultures out there. Most if them are not even African-American. The problem comes when either Whites, or African-Americans try to define Blackness as Hip hop, or ebonics, or BBQ. That’s not “Black Culture” it’s not even African-American culture, it belongs only to those who choose to practice it. But in reality, most of us don’t.
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Well, emulating a culture and making a culture appropriation is not the same thing.
I am not quite sure what’s the case with Eminem, though. I am not familiar with his work.
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Well I repeat what I have said many times: I think the whole american culture is hugely influenced by black americans, from litterature to music to arts of all kinds. Maybe black americans should get the credit from all of that instead of trying to define what is “real” black and what is not.
As for Africa, yeah, I really would like to hear from ibo, zulu and masai do they think their cultures are the same as in Black culture, or is there something else going on. 😀
Well, nobody is even suggesting seriously in Europe that there is one “white culture”. Italians and estonias share some common things but differ a lot. We finns do not feel the even our neighbours the russians or swedes are on the same cultural page with us. And estonians, our real cultural and linguistic cousins, are not the same culturally as we are. They even call us reindeers 😀
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“All black people are judged by American Hip Hop culture/lifestyle and are expected to behave accordingly, regardless of where in the world they’re from.”
Really? I mean Really!? That is a surprise to hear. For me. It just seems like you’d have to be really stupid to believe that.
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@ King
I brought up the book because it gives the basic rules to become white. Africania put white makeup on, “covering her rich, ebony skin” and straightened her hair so that “it hung lank and lifeless around her face”. When she wanted to sing and dance for joy after being released from Takata’s clutches, she kept the song to a whisper and her dance was stiff and understated, as I recall…
I still think that Li’l Kim and LaToya Jackson have ‘gone white’ by getting as many surgeries as possible! There’s a website called ‘Awful Plastic Surgery’ somewhere out there, and to see the before and after of Li’l Kim is amazing. But, she isn’t the only trainwreck on that site!
:laughing: 😆
jas0nburns said:(in response to the first quote)
“ ‘All black people are judged by American Hip Hop culture/lifestyle and are expected to behave accordingly, regardless of where in the world they’re from.’
“Really? I mean Really!? That is a surprise to hear. For me. It just seems like you’d have to be really stupid to believe that.”
Yes, people truly do believe that, but we know the level of ignorance and stupidity that many possess (Klan, neo-nazis, stormfronters, teabaggers, birthers, etc.). I’m black and was born and raised here in the US, and I’ve been treated like a stereotype many times – white people walking up to me trying to give me a high-five and saying “Whass happenin’?!?” or asking me who my favorite rapper is. Personally, I try not to live down to other people’s limited expectations. 😎
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@ jas0n
You’d be shocked to what degree that is true. It’s widely believed that Blacks who are well educated and functional in the corporate world, are maintaining a thin facade that skillfully conceals a deep down hip-hop negro.
And don’t let them start choosing up teams for after office basketball:
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I just can’t believe that people would assume a non American would adhere to stereotypes of black Americans. I mean I believe you, it’s just odd.
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@ sepultura13
Yeah, I see your point.
Maybe I’ll buy the book, just to keep around. It’s been years since I read it. I’ll go to Amazon!
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World is filled with stereotypes. They will never go away. On a personal level, just focus on the individuals instead.
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World is filled with stereotypes. They will never go away. On a personal level, just focus on the individuals instead.
Yep. That’s easily done (or should be), but there seems to be an unspoken expectation in your statement, that black people should do this when whites won’t. That’s an unfairness and injustice that sticks in the craw. A lot of people, regardless of their background, tend to resent being told to do something “for your own good” when others can live happily without the same demand being made of them. I may have read more into your statement than there is, but I just wanted to put that out there.
I’m at work so I get interrupted often, especially when I’m attempting to type something eloquent and well-thought-out. 😉
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sepultura13,
But the things are not equal for whites and non-whites. Whites don’t have to go through a lot of things black people have to.
These things (be it large stuff or microagressions) simply accumulate and they change you. It’s the stuff some (usually white) people don’t have to worry about, and the stuff they don’t see as a big deal at all. But they exist, and they change you.
Still, I don’t think these things fully determine a person. Nor that belonging to a certain group means you have to follow some “group rules” or whatever.
I have no idea if rap is, indeed, that important (or just a stereotypical marker of black American culture), but if we’re talking about it, I don’t think liking/disliking rap has anything to do with being black. Eminem (even if he’s honest in his love for this music) isn’t black. A black guy who is into metal is black.
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“Yep. That’s easily done (or should be), but there seems to be an unspoken expectation in your statement, that black people should do this when whites won’t. ”
Well we don’t really have too put up with it in the same way I don’t think, as Mira was saying. I mean we get stereotyped but it doesn’t have that same effect on us because we’re the dominant group.
I probably have mentioned on here that I play basketball regularly and as far as white stereotypes go, sucking at basketball is probably one of the most widely held and well known one. And trust me I see that look of shock from black guys just about every day when I pull a reverse lay-up or sink a 3. Also, there are times when I don’t get picked or passed the ball and all that. That’s all annoying stuff but I don’t think it compares to the day in day out constant stereotyping POC deal with. Also, I choose to put myself in that position as basketball is a recreational activity. So it’s different from if it was at work or school.
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@Mira:
Yes, my point was that rap music as a whole is a stereotypical marker of black American culture. In this stereotypical vein, white people assume that the only music I like is rap, so they will only ask who my favorite rapper is. If I were to ask someone else about music, then my questions would be: “What type of music do you like? Who’s your favorite artist, if you have one?” I ask general questions of people. It would be a major assumption on my part if I always asked whites: “who’s your favorite country-western band?”
When people make ASSumptions about others, well…just look at the capitalized letters – that’s what they make of themselves! 😎
@jas0nburns:
Yes, the day-to-day stereotyping does get old, and it wears on my good nature at times. Fortunately, my self-esteem doesn’t suffer because at the end of the day I can always say: “WOW!! It sure sucks to be that person! Glad I’m not in their shoes.”
I’ve always been of the opinion that a person who goes out of their way to tear down others, all the time, must be one miserable person…the only way they can feel good about themselves is to try to make others feel worse than they do. THAT’S pathological! 🙂
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And that is the whole point: white people have very hard time dealing with people being different.
Yessir. ‘Tis the ultimate point.
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Is there a way to “become black” as well?
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[…] on their own — the kinds of black women that white men tend to go for, for instance, or what it means to pass for white (turns out that not even all white people can pull it […]
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I agree with Victoria, except that I also live in South FL and many of the Cubans here are very whitewashed.
Many of them hold very bigoted attitudes toward anyone who isn’t Cuban…and it seems to be worse if you are black.
I am a very light-skinned biracial woman of West Indian descent, born in Florida.
When some of the Cubans here realize that I’m not Hispanic, they treat me like trash. My hair is kinky. I do not speak Spanish. I’ve definitely noticed some prejudice because of this.
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Cinnamondiva, I’ve encountered that from time-to-time as well. I mean, not on a personal level, but the racism towards others, and even classism between some Cubans. Take Marco Rubio, for example. He probably would stand behind south Florida implementing an anti-immigration law that targets brown-skinned people (like in Arizona) because he’s all “pulled myself up by my bootstraps” and disassociates from the struggles of other Cubans now. I could be wrong though. I just get that vibe.
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This kind of clicks with me. I wonder if the pressures of being white are why so many whites do drugs and why there was a hippie movement in the 60s. That generation was the white people who dared to break free and “find” and “express themselves” through drugs, free love and so forth. I always wondered why white kids seemed so into drugs, far more than any black kids I knew. Maybe this is the only time they can feel free and somewhat in touch with who they are, and maybe it dulls the pain and shame? I could be totally off base. But who knows?
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@ poetess
I’ve always wondered that too. They seem to feel ‘free’ and ‘themselves’ when assimilating with our culture.
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@ Dee: same here, HOW does one become Black? What is our standard? Like they already said above, its not nor should it ever be confused with hip-hop. Its like if we behave outside of that we’re considered being something else. Its confusing.
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Hey everyone my name is Noetic J and I believe that this is a tragedy that everyone should become aware about so it does not happen again! I have included the link to my Music Video on behalf of Trayvon Martin and what occurred. Please check it out and if you like it spread the word. Much love.
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why is it that if u call them out they are quick to defend what is obvious ,the wool has been removed ,to feel the cold but, they rather keep clothing of lies on.
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Cubans, Dominicans they are some of the most brain-washed people to walk the earth.Black blood courses through many of their veins and they are very self-hating.I live in new mexico and the hispanic’s here are the same, the way they grovel around whites is really pathetic and they try to pull that superiority crap on me but I trump them and white folks by ignoring the hell out of them and just act as though I am oblivious to their machinations.Put white folks on ignore, white folks can’t take that mess..lol.
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Abagond:
Again, for the 1000th time…What’s The Difference? European, American, Arab, etc. Anglo means european ancestry or whiteness. I understand what Thandeka’s trying to get across as it relates to intra-racial customs and ideals. As with blacks, whites don’t share the same values and norms, each race has levels of culture and ideology inherent within all of its members. Yes, Jews and Arabs don’t see themselves as WASPs like american whites, but they’re still white just the same. In my mind, this argument is futile. Regardless of nation or caste, blacks who live amongst whites deal with the same ish. Blacks in north africa cry about racism, blacks in europe cry about racism, blacks in central and south america cry, as well as blacks in the US and Canada…Ditto!
Tyrone
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“Pure European, what the hell is pure European??? Europeans are so anthropological and culturally different from the north to the south and from the west to the east. in the North and west they are mostly blond and light skin, here in the south and east and Mediterranean we are more darker, dark hair, darker eyes, a little bit darker skin, we look very different. So there is no pure European by blood, only if you take into account North Western Europe. I don’t really know how whites are in America, but it seems to me you are generalising too much. Peace!
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@ Teodor
I think you missed the point. I think had you read that segment you would not have asked the question you are asking.
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Reblogged this on Black Supremacy Love and Unity.
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Do you mind if I quote a couple of your articles as long as
I provide credit and sources back to your site? My blog site is in the exact same niche as yours and my users would really benefit
from some of the information you provide here.
Please let me know if this okay with you. Regards!
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lord she demands an immediate reversal of the terms white and black just as you would remember from the movie ‘x’ when malcolm is learning the dictionary and some basic reading
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Never heard of this book and this post is a new one to me. I didn’t discover Abagond’s blog until 2010.
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Went to Thandeka’s website this book has piqued my curiosity.
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