In addition to the model minority and perpetual foreigner stereotypes that White Americans apply to East Asians of any sex, there are two more that apply just to women:
- The China Doll stereotype – from geisha girls to mail-order brides, this stereotype views East Asian women as beautiful, quiet, “ultra-feminine” and always willing to serve their man! It seems to mainly grow out of American men’s experiences with prostitutes in East Asia, a place where America has long fought wars and maintained military bases. Examples from fiction: Madame Butterfly, Miss Saigon, Suzie Wong.
- The Dragon Lady stereotype – East Asian women as evil, mean and untrustworthy and yet physically desirable, often with great legs. In the 1930s Milton Caniff fleshed out this stereotype in his “Terry and the Pirates” stories, where the term “Dragon Lady” first appeared. Caniff based his Dragon Lady on Lai Choi San, a Chinese pirate queen of the South China Sea in the 1920s. Examples: many of the characters played by Anna May Wong in the 1920s and Lucy Liu in our own time. It is a common Hollywood stereotype.
Both China Dolls and Dragon Ladies are good in bed, better than white women. And, get this, they want to sleep with white men! But be careful – while one is good, the other is evil!
Common stereotyped qualities of East Asian women:
- Exotic: Their difference in looks and presumed culture is viewed as a good thing, as making them special, better than the “ordinary” women of one’s own race or country. It gives them an air of mystery. The truth is, there is no such thing as an exotic woman. After all, in Thailand Thai women are not exotic at all – they are just ordinary women.
- Better at sex: Asians are stereotyped as having “secrets” and “ancient wisdom”, so this is sometimes seen as extending to sex too. It is unclear how something like that could be kept secret for long, especially in the Internet Age.
- Willingness to please men: both in bed and out. “Me love you long time,” and so on. American men suppose this is because feminism has not yet reached East Asia. What they forget is that in many instances there is a huge power imbalance. Many of the East Asian women that American men have dealt with – prostitutes, war brides and mail-order brides – are poor. Their willingness to please American men comes not so much from a lack of feminism as from a lack of money.
- Highly intelligent and hard-working – from the model minority stereotype.
- From a foreign culture – even if they grew up in America! This comes from the perpetual foreigner stereotype where, say, a Korean American is more likely to be seen as “Asian”, “Korean” or even “Chinese” than as simply “American”.
The strange thing is, East Asian women seem more desirable when viewed through these racist stereotypes than when they are seen simply as the women they are!
See also:
Awesome article but the “wanting white men” portion can be strongly argued towards, sit down and have a chat with random Asian man and you’d be surprised. Stereotypes normally have a base, it’s sad about Anna Mae Wong, she played those roles out of having to versus wanting to. She even tried to get out of those things and Hollywood of course wasn’t trying to hear it (She was one of our Hotties of History: http://halloftheblackdragon.com/reel/1397/hottie-of-history-anna-may-wong.html )
Whenever I find one of my white friends fetishizing hard on Asian women (looks be damned) I usually run these same points down in the most annoying way to get them to shut up… barely works, what can you do? Still this vision will not be going away anytime soon especially when many of the white men married to a woman of Asian heritage are on blogs bigging up the sex to the ignorant.
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So only Whites hold these views about East Asian women? What do others think then? I know a lot of Black guys think Asian women have flat asses, though I’ve been told that “jungle Asians” are alright.
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@Sagat–
i agree with you–not the flat asses or the “jungle asians” crap–but that men in general seem to have a strong belief in these stereotypes.
abagond’s actual words were: “It seems to mainly grow out of American men’s experiences with prostitutes in East Asia, a place where America has long fought wars and maintained military bases.”
either you’re assuming that “American men” means only “white men” or abagond is. [i’m not being sarcastic here]. someone, please clarify.
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either you’re assuming that “American men” means only “white men” or abagond is. [i’m not being sarcastic here]. someone, please clarify.
Abagond specifically said White Americans at the beginning of the post, and based on previous posts of his, I assume that he was mainly referring to White men.
not the flat asses or the “jungle asians” crap
That what I’ve been told. Do you mean it’s crap in that you don’t agree or in that you don’t think others hold that view?
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@Sagat–
my family/friends who are in relationships with asian women have never made these statements.
as for myself–i know that it’s crap unquestionably.
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One thing I don’t get, and please, guys of any race, please, please explain:
WHY do so many men find submissive women (oh, so) appealing?
WHY do so many American/Western men think non-Western women are submissive?
Ok, now back on topic. I know nothing about these stereotypes (or the accompanying stereotype of effeminate Asian men), but it has to be all about “the three bears” effect one of the commenters wrote about at her blog. Whites tend to see themselves as the norm, as the neutral, as default human beings. Everybody else is seen through that and valued based on the way whites see them.
For some reason I don’t fully understand, Asian women are seen as submissive, yet, perfect sex kittens. The level of sexism mixed with pure racism is incredible.
As for “exotic” women, while it is true there’s no such thing as exotic, it is also true that many people are attracted to physical features that look unusual to them. One would argue many people like a combination of familiar and unfamiliar features. I am not saying this is good or bad, but it is how it is.
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Other than the “model minority” stereotypes, it doesn’t seem to me that many non-Asian Americans hew strongly to these conceptions.
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I think Asian Americans are more often stereotyped as conformist/assimilative than as culturally “exotic.”
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Where I’m from, I’ve heard guys (mostly white) say a particular Asian woman looks pretty…maybe even hot. And then I see what they’re crowing about and the AW isn’t anyone special.
I’ve been approached by different males of various backgrounds whether my, ahem, kitty is tight. I could’ve decked the last guy who asked me this.
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Temple said:
“either you’re assuming that “American men” means only “white men” or abagond is. [i’m not being sarcastic here]. someone, please clarify.”
I would not assume something like that. When I say “American” in the post it means black men too – but not most Asian American men, who presumably know better than to fall for these stereotypes.
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Here in Australia a few years ago, an opposition politician got in trouble for referring to the Malaysian-Chinese wife of the Premier as a mail order bride.
Given that Asian mail-order brides are primarily Filipino, it was another example of the “all Asians are the same” school of thought.
But it’s also the idea that a WM/AW relationship must automatically have a power imbalance.
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@ Leigh:
“I’ve been approached by different males of various backgrounds whether my, ahem, kitty is tight. I could’ve decked the last guy who asked me this.”
I wouldn’t blame you if you did!
I’ve heard guys saying this too. I’ve also heard an Asian guy assuming that black women have larger, ahem, “kitties”. So I guess it stems from the stereotype about how big the male member of each race is.
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Ugh, this! Personally, I know some mail-order brides I’ve met throughout the years. And I asked them why they married a stranger especially an older gentleman. They admitted it wasn’t for love. They desperately wanted to get out of poverty and help their families. It’s interesting to note if these “marriages” don’t work out, these same fellows go on to call their former wives gold digging harlots.
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@ agabond
is this website link to the kingston chronicles
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@ Eurasian Sensation:
The mail-order brides I knew were Filipino, yes. Another thing, there’s an inside joke (not in a haha funny kind-of-way) regarding the Filipino mail-order brides. A lot of them are mostly poor, uneducated girls from rural areas. They honestly don’t know any better. However, since they have nothing, they figured they have nothing to lose so that’s why there are so many mail-order brides.
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I remember vets speaking of basically hiring a housekeeper with benefits for little or no money. Soldiers didn’t make much money during the Vietnam era. This included Black men too. Before that, I had heard Black men that were in the Korean Conflict, talk about Asian women’s domesticity and submissiveness. Many brought back Asian wives as Tiger Wood’s dad. There were a lot of Black Amerasian babies left to fend for themselves in Asia.
The American culture has stressed ideal femininity. I guess many Black men, since they were constantly told that Black women weren’t feminine, sought out what they considered ultra feminine and Asian women were more accessible and acceptable during those times.
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Leigh204,
SMH, you should have slapped that punk.
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Abagond,
I like your new header. It’s cool 🙂
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On the topic of femininity, I have a question; just what do men consider feminine?
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@Y:
I hear ya. I haven’t been asked that in some time. However, when I do hear it I’m truly taken aback so much so I’m rendered speechless as well as shocked. I’m left thinking, “Did he really just ask me that?”
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Leigh204,
I can only imagine. What would every posses a man to go up to a woman and ask her about her private parts? Just mind boggling and disturbing to say the least.
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@Mira that was my blog
@EurasianSensation
I know right! You see how these racist/sexist stereotypes/myths goes hand in hand. Asian men are small so Asian women ahem kitties lol must be tight and then there goes the stereotypes/myths about Black men and women.
The whole quiet/submissive “ultra feminine nature that western men talk about East Asian women supposedly having is so sexist to me. It’s basically saying to be a “Real woman” you need to shut up look pretty and cater to my every need. GTFOHWTBS!
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there’s another example from the movie “south pacific,” i guess that would fall into the China Doll stereotype.
Leigh, that’s disgusting, you should have punched his nose out.
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btw who is the woman in the picture that you posted abagond??
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@ Mira:
“One thing I don’t get, and please, guys of any race, please, please explain:
WHY do so many men find submissive women (oh, so) appealing? “
I would imagine it is the traditional idea of dominant man, submissive woman. It makes the man feel secure in his traditionally-defined masculine role.
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“Better at sex: Asians are stereotyped as having “secrets” and “ancient wisdom”, so this is sometimes seen as extending to sex too. “
It’s true. I am totally awesome at the art of lurrve, courtesy of the knowledge my Asian ancestors handed down. Why do you think there are so many Chinese and Indonesians in the world? Too much good sex!
But seriously, I always wondered that at least in the Australian context, the opposite might be true. As a broad generalisation, I find East Asian women to be a little more conservative than white folks when it comes to sexuality. Young whites often have parents who experienced the sexual revolution, and sometimes pass down a more liberal attitude towards sex; particularly because Australia is not a strongly religious country. By contrast, most Asians here have parents who are immigrants, and maintain more traditional values towards sex and marriage. Their kids may not fully share those values, but are likely to be influenced by them somewhat.
As an example of what I mean, my (white) father just assumed I was at it like a rabbit in my late teens (I wasn’t) “because that’s what young people do”. My (Asian) mother was holding out hope that I was still a virgin well into my mid-20s (I wasn’t).
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@ Sagat
“So only Whites hold these views about East Asian women? What do others think then? I know a lot of Black guys think Asian women have flat asses, though I’ve been told that “jungle Asians” are alright.”
That’s a fair point, but you have to admit that it is white culture that has created these stereotypes. Certainly, other nationalities have adopted these ideas, but these ideas about Asians in general have been created and propagated by white culture and disseminated via white literature, media and film.
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@mira
WHY do so many men find submissive women (oh, so) appealing?
Because sex is nice. Men often find themselves in situations where they want sex, but their progressive, modern female partner doesn’t. Ergo, get a woman that never says no. Whether this leads to a working relationship and whether the man won’t get bored of this rather quick is to be doubted. But that’s the thing: it’s a fantasy, they’re always better than reality.
WHY do so many American/Western men think non-Western women are submissive?
Classical sterotyping, supported by modern porn.
I also want to point out that a certain degree of racism is inherent in sexuality. If you fantasize about a black or Asian or white woman because of their skin colour, then it’s still racism, even though it’s a positive one. I also doubt that you can rationalize that away, because it’s a certain degree of fetishism, which is ingrained into one’s sexuality.
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@peanut:
You’re absolutely right. I should’ve punched him. No guy had the right to ask me such a disgusting and rude question…or to anyone for that matter. Well, the next time it happens, I’ll know just what to do.
@peanut:
I can’t help myself as I know abagond will mention the name of the woman in that pic, but she is actress, Nancy Kwan. Oh, and in the clip you posted, the young AW is actress, France Nguyen. Ironically, both women are of Eurasian ancestry.
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I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to post comedian Kate Rigg’s Rice, Rice, Baby (parody of Ice, Ice, Baby that pokes fun at stereotypes of East Asian women):
It’s funny because, despite the stereotypes of East Asian women being sex goddesses and ultra feminine, there are also plenty of stereotypes about us all being boobless, hipless, waistless and shaped like ‘nine-year-old boys’. I think a lot of people who believe that probably haven’t seen enough East Asian women. If they have, there is still the chance that heuristics, illusory correlation or some other cognitive bias is at work. e.g. I knew someone who believes all East Asians are the classical stereotype: short, yellow, slit-eyed, straight black hair, high cheek bones, broad noses… so that’s all she saw when she travelled in Asia. She saw exactly what she expected to see and didn’t pay attention to anyone who did not fit those expectations. That’s why she didn’t recognise I was half Asian before revealing how racist she was towards Asians right in front of me.
@ leigh204
Wow, you actually had someone come up and say that to you in person? I’ve only ever had that happen online. I’ve also had a guy saying he had never seen the boobs of a half Asian, half white woman before and actually asked me to send him a photo. I’ve had several men approach me before simply because I looked Asian. One even came up to me and my friends and said, ‘Hey Asian girls!’ then stood there grinning as if expecting us to fall into his arms. When we stared at him in silence, he shouted racial slurs and left.
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Wow. we`re actually having a discussion like this? Aren’t we all fully formed adults here? SMH
Mira,
The reason why Men tend to prefer submissive Women and/or Women who will defer to their Men, is the same reason why Women tend to prefer Men who are *taller than themselves* and/or Men who make more money than themselves. Funny I don’t see you or anyone else asking why that is, LOL.
What’s that all about?
Listen, folks – when you reach a certain age, you’re supposed to know how the world works. There’s a reason why so many East Asian Women are so vastly preferred as wives over White Women by White guys. Personally, I couldn’t possibly care less, it has no effect on my life one way or another. Nor do I recall hearing many East Asian Women complaining. It seems to me the only people complaining are people who aren’t East Asian Women or White guys. Hmm, I wonder why?
As for how Black Men view Asian Women, yes, I’ve heard quite a few say what Sagat has said, that mainland Asian Women, ie, Chinese, Korean and Japanese, tend to have flatter behinds than the more Southeast Asian Women from say, Thailand or the Philippines or Cambodia, and based on my personal observation I would agree with this view in aggregate. The latter group tends to have the kinds of shapely bodies that Black Men in aggregate tends to prefer, present company included. I’ve personally known quite a few Black Men who’ve had Asian Women as wives or girlfriends. *shrugs* No big deal to me or anyone else around them. and I’ve dated a Woman who was the product of a Black Man/Filippina Woman – my God, she was smokin’! I suppose if I wanted to, I could date more such ladies of Asian background, but just never got around to it. But as far as I know, those Black Men who’ve gone the distance with AW haven’t reported any complaints, at least not any out of the norm versus say, WW or BW. Again, *shrugs*
It just seems to me that discussions like these reminds me of back when I was kid of about 16 or so, questioning why this was this and why that was that. At some point you get schooled on it and/or you figure it out for yourself and get on with the serious business of living life on its own terms.
In the end, it’s all about what you bring to the table as an individual, just like if you were interviewing for a job – why should so and so pick you, over say, those umpteen other folk over there? No one has a right to a friendship, relationship, wife or hubbie. And the thing is, that just about everyone can get these things if they do some basic things to make themselves more marketable. For Men, that means GAME; for Women, that means SEPHORA.
The. End.
O.
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Peanut:
The picture at the top of the post is Nancy Kwan in “The World of Suzie Wong” (1960). Kwan is an American actress who was born in Hong Kong to a Cantonese father (who worked for British intelligence) and a Scottish mother.
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Aiyo,
I know it was your blog! I was just (this is embarrassing) unsure how to spell your name and I didn’t want to take a guess. (I tried to find some comments made by you here, but to no avail). I am sorry for this. It was an excellent blog post, btw! Very well said. It explains mechanisms behind the ways whites stereotype people of other races in order for them to appear “neutral”.
Eurasian Sensation,
I would imagine it is the traditional idea of dominant man, submissive woman. It makes the man feel secure in his traditionally-defined masculine role.
I see… So it’s about being secure in his role and being familiar with the situation more than about liking a girl with no backbone?
zemo,
Because sex is nice.
NO sh.t!
Men often find themselves in situations where they want sex, but their progressive, modern female partner doesn’t. Ergo, get a woman that never says no.
Wait, wait, wait… Does this mean you assume women don’t like/want sex?
One would think that a woman who never says no is somebody with a high sex drive (nothing wrong with that), NOT somebody who hates it but says yes because she is too submissive to say no.
Also, sorry to burst anyone’s bubble, but I’ve been in situations when my male partner didn’t want sex even if I did. Contrary to the popular belief, guys are not 24/7 “in the mood”… And there’s nothing wrong about it.
But that’s the thing: it’s a fantasy, they’re always better than reality.
Yes, well, that’s why I asked… WHY is that a common male fantasy? I understand the fantasy of a woman being always in the mood for sex (let’s face it, ladies, many women ARE a pain in the a** when it comes to this)… But isn’t it better to fantasize about a woman with a high sex drive, not somebody who is to scared/submissive to say no?
Oh, but there’s a thing… Double standards. Men are taught not to respect “loose” women, so obviously they’d like their sex kittens to be always ready and available, but not to be really sexual beings. The common Asian woman fantasy is a woman who is great in bed and can satisfy a man with her “oriental sexual technique knowledge”… But not a woman who really enjoys sex herself and has a hight sex drive herself!
Think about it…
Obsidian,
Mira,
The reason why Men tend to prefer submissive Women and/or Women who will defer to their Men, is the same reason why Women tend to prefer Men who are *taller than themselves* and/or Men who make more money than themselves. Funny I don’t see you or anyone else asking why that is, LOL.
Hmmm…. Am i the only one who doesn’t think liking certain physical features is the same as liking personality traits?
I never asked why men prefer women with large breasts, or round behinds, or long legs, or whatever. I can understand it, I really do.
It’s NOT the same thing as liking submissive women!!!!
Similarly, liking tall men, or men with broad shoulders, or 6 pack, or deep voices, or whatever is NOT the same thing as liking men who earn much money!
I mean, please….
Perhaps Abagond could do up a post about this?
That would be great, but I don’t think it will happen.
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@ Mira:
“One thing I don’t get, and please, guys of any race, please, please explain:
WHY do so many men find submissive women (oh, so) appealing? “
I never understood that myself. I have always found the submissive type extremely boring.
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Mira brings up an excellent point about Aiyo’s Three Bears Effect where whites see Asians as the other extreme of blacks, putting themselves in the middle. I wish I had thought of it before I wrote the post!
The Three Bears Effect predicts that stereotypes about Asian women will be the opposite of those for black women. And it works for the most part:
If black women are loud, overbearing and disagreeable, then Asian women must be quiet, submissive and sweet.
If black women are “mannish” and ugly, then Asian women are ultra-feminine and beautiful.
If black women do not desire white men, then Asian women are hung up on them.
If black women are “loose” down there, then Asian women are “tight”.
Etc.
The model minority stereotype is completely created by the Three Bears Effect – blacks are lazy, stupid but cool, therefore Asians are hard-working, intelligent but nerdy. And so on. Whites love it because it allows them to look down on blacks while claiming they are not racist (“How can we be racist when we think so well of Asians!”, not seeing that there is no such thing as a “good” racist stereotype).
So from this point of view, all this stuff about Asian women can be viewed as the sexual end of the model minority stereotype.
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What if you are a tall woman? Would your ideal be the improbable? The tall man would be average to you.
I still would like to hear from the men here think is feminine. I ask because I liked to know if it is a look or is it defined as being submissive.Why would Asian women be equated with ultra feminine. The stature, looks, body type, child like; just what?
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It depends on what one means by submissive. Usually that’s used in a pejorative sense.
Someone who wants another human being to “submit” to them the same way an animal would is more than a little off and not likely to find that.
I think it’s fair to say that most men do not want someone who’s gonna to challenge and berate them at every turn-just because. Men want wives and girlfriends that are on their side.
That need not mean “submissive” as everyone has arguments, debates and disagreements. It’s part of life.
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Why do women like dominant, take charge men, the kind of guys who don’t take no for an answer, take no lip from anyone and generally insist on doing things their own way?
It’s just the way it is.
The genders differ in testosterone and aggressiveness so it’s unsurprisingly that each gender responds positively to those qualities in the opposite gender which it lacks.
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Mira,
That’s because, as a Woman, you expect everyone to see things as you do. This is common among Women, and to be fair, some Men do it too. Like I said, I find the very discussion interesting because this is something we all should have learned in our early 20s at the latest.
Women have different preferences in a mate than do Men. Which are, in the year 2010, a preference for a Man who is taller than they are, and who will make more than they do. If you want to quibble about the whys and wherefores of this, have at it.
Men in general yes, tend to want Women who are more submissive to them and are more likely to defer to them. That’s just the way it is. Those A-type personality Women out there who refuse to go along with that are more than free to pursue the more B-type personality Men out there. I’m sure they’ll be very happy with Mr. Mom.
For the rest of us adults who live in the world and deal with it on its own terms, we get on with the serious business of living life quite well, thank you very much.
*shrugs*
O.
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Hi Hathor,
Replies below:
H: What if you are a tall woman? Would your ideal be the improbable? The tall man would be average to you.
O: Well, that depends. If you’re a Woman who’s say, the height of the average American Male, which is 5’10”, or taller, then yes, you’re going to have a problem. Unlike her shorter sisters, such a Woman will have to consider Men who are a bit shorter than herself, because Men as a rule tend to prefer shorter Women. They’ll have to get used to thinking outside the box if they want to find a mate. It doesn’t do them any good to think they can do the exact same thing they’re shorter sisters can do.
H: I still would like to hear from the men here think is feminine. I ask because I liked to know if it is a look or is it defined as being submissive.Why would Asian women be equated with ultra feminine. The stature, looks, body type, child like; just what?
O: It’s all of that. If you’re a Woman who doesn’t possess these things, then you must compensate via cultivating ladylike tastes, approaches and demeanor.
O.
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@ mira
Nah, I don’t say women enjoy sex less than men, nevermind dislike it. Women are exactly the same as men. However, women are also influenced by what they are expected to behave like. For example, if you ask a woman to describe sexual fantasies when looking at pictures of good-looking men, she will be more risque and adventurous when she is alone, without other people around. So yeah, sometimes the women have indeed a headache, sometimes they feel like they have to turn advances down in order to not appear loose, sometimes they simply aren’t in the mood. Therefore: A man wants a more submissive woman.
Mind you, I am fairly sure that men that have been in a stable relationship for quite a while don’t want that, at least not for a prolongued time (I guess for short trips there’s still porn).
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O.
If you’re a Woman who doesn’t possess these things, then you must compensate via cultivating ladylike tastes, approaches and demeanor.
See this is what confuses me. I see that as a woman (not female) you are by definition feminine. Some of the things I mentioned are just trappings. You cannot make a woman who has a certain build look good in ruffles and lace, she may look like a parody nor would she look demure or small of stature. I am not talking about being fat. I can not understand why an adult man would want a woman with child like qualities, unless it was the inquisitiveness or wonderment found in discovery, then there would go the submissiveness. What does demeanor mean, flirty, giggly?
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Abagond,
It was a good analysis, but I must say I don’t think “Three bears effect” is created because of blacks only… I think whites are as racist to Asians, too. So this mechanism allowes them to look down on both blacks and Asians.
However, THE most important thing here is not how whites see blacks or Asians, buthow they see THEMSELVES.
If black men are oversexed but dumb, and Asian men are nerdy but effeminate, white men can be the perfect middle: sexual enough to be manly, but not animalistic, and smart enough to be considered intelligent, but not nerdy.
It works the same for women- but to an extend. While Three bears effect does make white women seem “the best” (“in the middle”) there’s also sexism that says that those women who are seen as the most submissive, petite and child like are the best- Asian women.
So when it comes to these things it’s impossible to disregard sexism along with racism. The whole idea behind a submissive Asian lady/ sex kitten is as sexist as is racist.
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Obsidian,
Mira,
That’s because, as a Woman, you expect everyone to see things as you do.
Yeah, right. Because all women are the same… I understand you are not the most feminist/womanist person here, but this was a really ridiculous thing to say.
Women have different preferences in a mate than do Men. Which are, in the year 2010, a preference for a Man who is taller than they are, and who will make more than they do.
And I’ve been trying to say that liking tall men is NOT the same as liking men who earn a lot of money. Jut like liking women with big breasts is not the same as liking submissive women!
Also, I know plenty of women who don’t care about how much the guy earns. I am one of them, and I know a lot of women like this.
On the other hand, I know a lot less women who don’t care how tall a guy is (sad but true).
Of course, I could only speak from my experience (and the women I know). Pesonally, I don’t care about guy’s money or that crap. Physically, the first thing I notice is hair (I like beutiful & thick hair), so a short guy with beautiful hair is better than a tall one with thin hair. I also seem to like deep voices. Tallness and a deep voice are some things that could be seen as masculine. Earning a lot of money isn’t.
Still, I am not saying what you claim isn’t true: many women DO care about how much money the guy earns. Still, it’s different than to say many womn like tall men.
Just like it’s different when men prefer women with beautiful legs and when they prefer submissive women. It’s simply not the same.
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zemo,
I wasn’t talking about you personally. Sorry if it sounded like that. I was discussing stereotype: if men want to have plenty of sex, isn’t fantasizing about women with high sex drive more logical than fantasizing about submissive women who don’t like sex, but don’t know how to say no?
Is this some kind of male rape fantasy? (As the opposite of female rape fantasy, which, no matter what people say, exists and is real and has nothing to do with women really wanting to be raped).
But I agree: women are under constant pressure of society, culture and double standards. By the time a girl is 14, her sexuality is, in many cases, damaged by the morals and social do’s and don’ts. I am not saying it’s easier for (heterosexual) men, but at least they don’t have to hide their sexuality (even from themselves!) and pretend it doesn’t exist, like many women, even today, do. BTW, why do you think crappy books such as “Twilight” are so popular? Because they play to supressed sexual energy of women, both teenage girls and adult women.
Oh, I could write for days about this one… But I am already somewhat off topic.
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My two cents (Euro-cents of course lol):
I’ve never thought of AW being more feminine or sexual than others. Nor do I find them especially attractive, excluding someone like Lucy Liu.
Here in Finland most mail-order brides come from Thailand. I saw a documentary of Thai women seeking an international relationship. Many or most of them were poor and uneducated, some had had bad relationships with Thai men (surprisingly to me, violence & alcoholism were prevalent). So, a western husband was seen as a ticket out of poverty and also a sign of status. Often the husband candidates were old, wrinkly men from either Europe or US. In the documentary I mentioned, there was this short-haired, educated Thai woman who was considered very “western” in her looks and opinions was ironically the LEAST APPEALING to WESTERN MEN! O tempora, o mores!
I’ve seen a few of those couples in my home country. More often than not, the women are quite attractive (medium or above), whereas the finnish men are older, obese or unattractive in some other way. Those guys are often seen as abusive losers, who can’t get/keep an independent nordic woman. Many males have quite conservative views on relationships. They quite possibly can’t even handle their own household (cooking, cleaning) and in general favor submissive women. But they also often look very pleased, so who am I to judge.
I personally prefer a woman with brains and a will of her own. I’m a pretty good cook, and as a single dad, it’s something my son really appreciates (he sometimes entertains himself with the thought of becoming a chef). And I’m not attracted to AW in general.
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And besides, women of any race will want sex, if you treat them nice. If you show them both physical and emotional affection, sex comes automatically into quotation. And if you also show in the bedroom that you care about their sexual needs, you’re all set…you might even find it difficult to keep up with her… 😀
But of course there are people with different levels of sexual activity. Just try to choose someone compatible in that (and every other) respect. Opposites don’t attract IMHO.
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@ Hannu–
And besides, women of any race will want sex, if you treat them nice. If you show them both physical and emotional affection, sex comes automatically into quotation. And if you also show in the bedroom that you care about their sexual needs, you’re all set…you might even find it difficult to keep up with her… 😀
So TRUE! Whenever I hear men complain that their girlfriend or wife doesn’t want sex, I always think it’s because in the vast majority of those cases, it’s because the guy is not showing the women enough emotional and physical affection. As you said, sex is an automatic if the man knows how to keep that going on on a regular basis.
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@Mira
Thank you 🙂 and it’s fine and I have trouble with names sometimes too.
@Abagond
Thank you too.
It’s so funny how you can toss all these stereotypes at one group even though they contradict each other.
Asian women are stereotyped as being ultra feminine yet they are also stereotyped as having “boyish” figures.
Asian men being seen as effeminite and weak yet they all know martial arts and can give you a serious beatdown.
Seriously how they hell does that work?!
I could go on about different race/gender stereotypes and how they contradict.
But I guess they don’t need to make sense just as long as we belive it.
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Mira says,
It works the same for women- but to an extend. While Three bears effect does make white women seem “the best” (“in the middle”) there’s also sexism that says that those women who are seen as the most submissive, petite and child like are the best- Asian women.
So when it comes to these things it’s impossible to disregard sexism along with racism. The whole idea behind a submissive Asian lady/ sex kitten is as sexist as is racist.
laromana says,
Mira, I agree with your analysis of the dynamic of racism/sexism and how it affects the way women are viewed.
I find it interesting that, although some men are attracted to AW due to FALSE STEREOTYPES, MOST men view AW as DESIRIABLE/ATTRACTIVE.
In contrast, ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES ATTACK our FEMININITY/BEAUTY/DESIRABILTY in a way that causes MOST MEN of EVERY RACE to be the LEAST ATTRACTED to BW.
Many NON-BW who are UNAWARE of the dynamics RACIST/SEXIST STEREOTYPES play in how women are viewed MISTAKENLY think they are “BETTER” than BW when the TRUTH is that, BASED SOLEY ON RACE, NON-BW are not DISCRIMINATED AGAINST/are CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE while BW ARE NOT.
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laromana,
Good point. Black women are often “praised” for their curvy bodies, or for being “oversexed”… But somehow, it’s never seen as a perfect option, even if a black woman is seen as a sex kitten. Maybe it’s because, among other things, black women are not seen as submissive?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think what is done to Asian women is fair, or that they should be happy to receive such praise… But it’s interesting.
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@ mira
The problem with highly sexually active women as a fantasy is that, unlike submissive women, they demand things. Outside of sex they might expect you to work alongside them on your relationship, be active, represent an intellectually stimulating partner, etc. And in the bed they would expect you to work to make them enjoy it too. While a submissive woman would do all the emotional heavy-lifting in the relationship and pretend to be satisfied (obviously, she wouldn’t be too happy in this).
In short: A submissive women means more fun because there is less work involved. I, personally, can absolutely appreciate this as a fantasy. This is why porn works. Now, in real life, the old rule counts: Nothing that’s worth anything ever comes easy.
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Oh, so essentially, a male fantasy about submissive women is similar to a common female fantasy, of a decently-endowed man who is into providing oral sex and can “go on” for hours, never misses the G spot… But is also good in cooking, cleaning and doing the laundry?
😀 😀 😀
(don’t shoot me)
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Sure, why not. It’s a fantasy, so you can cherry-pick.
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Hello Abagond,
I’ve read several of your “stereotypes” posts, and the common underlying subtext appeared to be that such stereotypes are ignorant, false, and damaging. Is this correct?
I ask because this particular post seemingly works against that thesis, and may actually bolster the claim that racial stereotypes often accrete from kernels of truth.
For example:
And, get this, [Asian women] want to sleep with white men!
According to recent Pew Research study, Asian women in America had the largest out-marriage rate of any race-gender combination, mostly to white men.
A different study conducted at Columbia University found that all race-gender subgroups had a negative preference bias against dating persons from other ethnicities except for Asian women who had no negative bias against white men.
Common stereotyped qualities of East Asian women: Highly intelligent and hard-working – from the model minority stereotype.
In the United States, Asians have lower crime rates, greater levels of academic achievement, and larger median per capita incomes than any other major racial group.
I believe that one could fairly argue in favor of several other items in your list, however those points would be more subjective.
If these stereotypes are actually grounded in reality, what conclusions would you suggest that we draw regarding the stereotypes of other races?
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Randy Garver,
ANY stereotype will have people who fit them. It doesn’t mean the stereotype is any less harmful.
The fact there are “many” East Asian women married to white men means nothing in terms of this stereotype. Say you are a white guy and you see an attractive East Asian woman across the room. If you approach because “they” like white men, you are buying into a stereotype and you might approach in a very racist manner. (Maybe you think she “should” or “must” like you, or that she must be submissive because that’s what East Asian women are, right?) The fact there are many East Asian women married to white men has nothing to do with this.
Like Aiyo said, there are many conflicting stereotypes: Asian women are “child like”, but “the most feminine”, they are “submissive”, but “wild in bed”? Asian men are “effeminate”, but they all know martial arts?
Don’t you see a problem with this?
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It’s so funny how you can toss all these stereotypes at one group even though they contradict each other.
Asian women are stereotyped as being ultra feminine yet they are also stereotyped as having “boyish” figures.
Asian men being seen as effeminite and weak yet they all know martial arts and can give you a serious beatdown.
Seriously how they hell does that work?!
That’s what I was thinking as well. I wonder if the first stereotypes were that the women were ultra feminine and the men were martial arts masters, but then some people felt threatened by that and decided to perpetuate contradicting myths, hence the stereotypes of women having ‘boyish’ figures and the men being spindly, feminine weaklings.
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Mira,
According to the study at Columbia University, asian women demonstrated a greater preference for white men than white men did towards asian woman. So it appears that a main driver for AW-WM couplings originates from the AW.
As for the conflicting stereotypes issue, there is a plausible explanation which removes the contradiction: Asian people tend to behave in a more reserved manner in public than do western people.
With women, such subdued or demure behavior is often mischaracterized as being “submissive”, while men may be thought of as passive or shy.
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Carmen from Racialicous talking about Asian American stereotypes and their origins
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I’m a feminist. My bf is a feminist. I tend to make many of the decisions in our household. I’m curvy and outspoken. I don’t date white men, despite them being the people that flirt with me the most. Even though I’m half white myself. Non-white men only, please.
I feel the most damaging aspect of these stereotypes are in trying to fulfill them. That goes for all POC. If you do fit or if you don’t, the result is still dehumanizing.
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Randy Garver said:
“According to the study at Columbia University, asian women demonstrated a greater preference for white men than white men did towards asian woman. So it appears that a main driver for AW-WM couplings originates from the AW.”
I read that study and did a post on it. What it said is that men are dogs – they will go for any pretty woman regardless of race. It is women who apply race to dating, with Asian women being by far the least racist. Given that most men in America are white, white men and Asian women become the most common mixed-race pairing.
My post on that study:
My post on the Asian fetish (#2 in the Google search!):
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Hi Hathor,
Replies below:
H: See this is what confuses me.
O: There is no confusion, it’s just that you either don’t like or don’t agree with what I said.
H: I see that as a woman (not female) you are by definition feminine. Some of the things I mentioned are just trappings. You cannot make a woman who has a certain build look good in ruffles and lace, she may look like a parody nor would she look demure or small of stature.
O: Therein lies the problem – this isn’t about what YOU see, but rather, what MEN see.
H: I am not talking about being fat. I can not understand why an adult man would want a woman with child like qualities, unless it was the inquisitiveness or wonderment found in discovery, then there would go the submissiveness. What does demeanor mean, flirty, giggly?
O: Again, this is because you’re attempting to foist your views as a Woman onto Men enmasse, and they’re not listening, LOL. Men want what they want and like what they like. Period. Either Women do what it takes to cater to that need, or they wind up on places like Abagond’s arguing with the whys and wherefores of the world.
O.
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Hello Mira,
Replies below:
O: Mira,
That’s because, as a Woman, you expect everyone to see things as you do.
M: Yeah, right. Because all women are the same… I understand you are not the most feminist/womanist person here, but this was a really ridiculous thing to say.
O: What’s really ridiculous is the entirety of your comments here. You attempt to argue a point by way of personal anecdote. Silly. Moreover, you attempt to argue your point by personally attacking me; my views, one way or another, wrt feminism is irrelevant. One can make a simple observation of the general likes and dislikes of Men and Women regardless as to what their own personal philosophy is. The problem is that you can’t or won’t seperate your personal junk from what we can all see with own eyes. Try using Occam’s razor instead of a butterknife.
O: Women have different preferences in a mate than do Men. Which are, in the year 2010, a preference for a Man who is taller than they are, and who will make more than they do.
M: And I’ve been trying to say that liking tall men is NOT the same as liking men who earn a lot of money. Jut like liking women with big breasts is not the same as liking submissive women!
O: A paltry distinction without any discernable difference; the bottomline is, that Women like certain things about Men, and vice versa for Men wrt Women. They can and will be different, and they can and will largely hold up accross the cultures and climes. Why is it that Men really don’t have a problem with this, but Women do? I mean, why is it that Abagond doesn`t have up a post railing on and on about the fact that Women tend to like taller Men than themselves? Could it be because he, as a Man, simply accepts life in this regard and keeps it moving?
M: Also, I know plenty of women who don’t care about how much the guy earns. I am one of them, and I know a lot of women like this.
O: So what. personal anecdote doesn’t a solid argument make.
M: On the other hand, I know a lot less women who don’t care how tall a guy is (sad but true).
O: Yea, so why aren’t you as heated and animated about something hat by your own admission is both clear and present, as well as grossly as stereotypical as this very post we’re discussing? What’s up with that, Mira?
M: Of course, I could only speak from my experience (and the women I know).
O: Of course; something that is of importance only to you, by the way..,
M: Pesonally, I don’t care about guy’s money or that crap. Physically, the first thing I notice is hair (I like beutiful & thick hair), so a short guy with beautiful hair is better than a tall one with thin hair. I also seem to like deep voices. Tallness and a deep voice are some things that could be seen as masculine. Earning a lot of money isn’t.
O: Yea, but here’s the thing: nobody asked you what you thought. Learn to be objective.
M: Still, I am not saying what you claim isn’t true: many women DO care about how much money the guy earns. Still, it’s different than to say many womn like tall men.
O: So why are we having this conversation then? oh yea, that’s right, because you don’t like how I said that Women generally tend to be the same. And Women don’t like being told that. Not a problem I can or should solve…
M: Just like it’s different when men prefer women with beautiful legs and when they prefer submissive women. It’s simply not the same.
O: Wrong. If a Man can get a Woman with great legs AND who’s submissive, over merely getting a Woman with great legs with a type-A, ballbusting personality, take a wild guess as to who which one wins?
O.
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Abagond,
Interesting posts and comments. Thank you for pointing me to them.
I would suggest that a person can hold an inflexible preference for marrying within their own race/tribe/clan/caste without that being a “racist” choice, or them having any pejorative views about people from other ethnicities.
The concept of marriage as primarily a relationship between two people for the purpose of their own happiness is a very recent development, and not one shared worldwide even in modern times.
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@ Ella:
While I’m of SEAsian descent, I’m always amazed at the comments that Asian women, in general, are supposed to have those traits as you’ve mentioned. I know many Asian women who have breasts, hips, a figure if you will. A lot of women in my family certainly do.
Yes, more than once.
I had one guy in hs ask me out for a date and when I said I wasn’t interested, politely, mind you, he showed his true colors and called me every nasty name for Asians under the sun.
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@ leigh204
Do you mind if I ask you how you make the text into a quotation?
I also know and have known plenty of East and South East Asian women with curvier figures. Including some of my own family members. Yet every time I bring that up, someone tells me ‘They must have White ancestry: that’s the only way.’ Some people really can’t handle others not fitting neatly into the stereotypes.
Yes, more than once.
Well, looks like it’s time to start slapping some people the next time you hear that!
It sounds like you dodged a bullet with that guy who asked you out.
@ Aiyo
Thank you for posting the video. It’s very interesting and explains a lot.
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Point 1: I have rarely ever met a submissive asian lady. Usually I see them wearing the pants in the relationship. I’m not saying this is all asian women, just who I have encountered (within US and China). I remember one time my bf said something not so appropriate to me in front of others and his friend who is a korean girl would NOT have it and told him to apologize and that guys don’t speak to girls like that. (side note: my bf is a sweetheart and did apologize, lol.) My bf’s mom is also very very un submissive. I really can’t stand the woman. I wish at times she would get a dose of some submission!!!!!!!!!!!! My mother on the other hand is the submissive one in the relationship.
Point 2: This black young lady was surprised I dated asian guys and said, “i heard they have small ****”. I replied back, “I heard black girls have huge ****”. She laughed, I think because she saw how stupid her statement was. And I had just met her! Gee!!!
Point 3: This stereotype I think is also held by some Asians guys. Maybe it’s the way some asian women come off? Women are really pretty much the same, but sometimes we express it differently depending on culture. Some do sweet revenge quietly whereas others are more loud. And I keep hearing people from other countries (not just asian countries) that on the outside the women show respect to the man but behind closed doors he’s the bitch. lol. I also find American women submissive but it’s subtle and not in a traditional sense.
Point 4: why are asian guys considered effeminate? why aren’t other guys just more ogre-ish? hehehe, not that i think so 100% but just a different angle on the stereotypes.
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Oh, and the “flat ass” stereotype…I hear that from Asian guys all the time.
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Another side note (sorry): I’ve been told by people I’m too submissive in my past. I have now amped up my b****yness. 🙂
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@Eurasion Sensation
I find what you talk about the parents being conservative very interesting. I had thought asian parents would be conservative. But even in HS my bf’s parents let me spend the night. My parents won’t even allow my boy cousins in my room. How weird is that?!
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@ Mei Ly
Point 1: I have rarely ever met a submissive asian lady. Usually I see them wearing the pants in the relationship…
… Maybe it’s the way some asian women come off? Women are really pretty much the same, but sometimes we express it differently depending on culture. Some do sweet revenge quietly whereas others are more loud. And I keep hearing people from other countries (not just asian countries) that on the outside the women show respect to the man but behind closed doors he’s the bitch. lol.
I actually wanted to say this exact same thing, but since all of my experience comes from Asian family members and Asian people in western countries, I wasn’t sure if it was the same in Asia itself and I kept my mouth shut.
I’ve always found that either the women are the matriarchs or they give the air of being very submissive and docile, but are the boss in private. Some also go about it in such a subtle way most people wouldn’t notice they are making the choices and the husband is doing as he is told.
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@Ella…
“Some also go about it in such a subtle way most people wouldn’t notice they are making the choices and the husband is doing as he is told.”
I notice this so much! Very passive aggressive. It annoys me the stereotype about the submissive sweet asian lady but because i’m “black” or other “black” women are considered manly and aggressive because we may just speak our mind. Usually I see the opposite. And you can’t really prove that the sweet looking asian lady is really a wolf in sheeps clothing because it doesn’t fit the stereotype.
But, with that said, I can only say this is my observation. I don’t know all asian or black women. And every asian country is different. One asian country could have more submissive women while the other asian country has less.
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To Mira:
Also, I know plenty of women who don’t care about how much the guy earns. I am one of them, and I know a lot of women like this.
You’re in Serbia.. not the United States. It’s considered a bit crass for women to be openly interested in a man’s income but like it or not.. (especially as one gets older..) this is a rather important consideration among most Whites certainly and among quite a few Asians I have met. I am less familiar with the dating dynamics among Latinos and Blacks but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was not an important consideration also.
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To Mira:
As for “exotic” women, while it is true there’s no such thing as exotic…
Well I have been treated as exotic in Asia and so have quite a few White female friends. I have heard the same thing basically applies to Whites in Africa. (absent South Africa..)
Is it objectifying sure… is it horrible… errr.. not if you are a guy.
There is an expression in English: “The grass is always greener on the other side…” would seem to apply here.
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“Well I have been treated as exotic in Asia…”
I’m hoping this was not Thailand. LOL.
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To FG:
I’m hoping this was not Thailand. LOL.
Thailand has it’s (very well known..) reputation for prostitution but Thais of my generation (I’m 49) tend to be pretty conservative. However I know of men in their 20s who have visited Thailand (not for the naughty business…) who were actively pursued by (legit – college educated) Thai women. Shorter (I’m well over 6 feet..) athletic but not overly muscular, blond haired blue eyed guys who might described as metro-sexual seemed to be in big demand. Personally, I have been more actively pursued in the Philippines and Japan.
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I’m not asian and have been considered exotic. *shrug* i never felt offended by it.
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I have to tell this story of an experience I had in an Asian eatery. It was late. My friends and I stayed near closing time.
Drunk, white dude entered and started acting obnoxious. He was speaking loudly so the few people who stayed ’til closing time could hear him.
He started going on and on about how easy it was for him to get an Asian girl. He went as far as to point and gesture to one of the passing waitresses, who was tidying the place. I remember him saying stuff like: “See that girl. If I want to, I can get her to go back to my place with me. It’s easy.”
The girl looked humiliated. Everyone looked embarrassed for her and him. I was embarrassed for her.
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And no one said anything?
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I think Hawaii is probably one of the few places in the world I can go to where I wouldn’t be thought of as ‘exotic’ looks-wise. Generally I do not mind if someone uses that word to describe me because I know they usually mean I look ‘special’ or ‘unique’ to them, even though ‘exotic’ is most often used to describe animals and objects. Much like how ‘oriental’ is a word that is normally used when describing a rug and not a human. However, the attitude that often comes along with the person that uses the word ‘exotic’ to describe me is one I would prefer not to deal with. They are often the type of people that think it is perfectly acceptable to stare at me, discuss my ethnicity out loud before even speaking to me, then fuss over my features when they are there in front of me. Since it seems most people on here are Black, I guess I would compare it to a Black woman having white people come up to her, stroking her hair and touching her skin without consent and saying things like, ‘Wow, you have such a typical Black woman’s body. What a lovely round butt! So gorgeous. I love that silky chocolate skin of yours!’ It really does feel like you are someone’s adorable pet that they are fussing over and talking down to. Except for with me, it was fussing over my long black hair (that isn’t even black, by the way), my ‘almond-shaped’ eyes, my ‘mysterious air of the Orient’, my delicate wrists/ankles/fingers/toes/hands/feet, my non-black eyes (‘OH MY GOD, how can anyone with Asian blood not have black eyes?! How unique!’), etc.
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@ Ella:
Oh, simply type
Please ensure there’s no space in the second tag such as the one I did here. I’m not good with html at all. I learn through trial and error. lol! 😉
Yes, I’ve found some people just don’t know what to do with you if you don’t look a certain way. Weird, huh?
It goes to show you that these guys are not interested in you as a person, but in what they perceive you to be.
Yes, thank you Aiyo. It’s appreciated. 😀
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@ Ella:
My apologies. I keep screwing the html tags up. Grrr. lol! 😉
Please see the responses here:
(Hope that helps!)
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@Ella
I have had Asians do this to me a lot! And some black people. With whites, not so much. They might say I have a unique look. It can be very embarrassing. 😦
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@ Ella:
Given that the people of Hawaii are predominantly Asian and Polynesian, I agree.
Spot on! I couldn’t have said it better myself.
What?!?! Full Asian-blooded people only have black eyes! Get outta here! 😉
Korean model/actress Go Ara
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Here she is once again. And, no, she’s not wearing colored contact lenses.
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@leigh…i know that actress. not sure where i saw. i think there is a korean guy with green or really light brown eyes too.
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Ya know…i coulda swore I saw an asian guy with blue eyes.
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I did a little tiny research and found this site.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t69162.html
someone on the site says green eyes are defects. Gahh! I have a defect?!!?
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@leigh204
Thanks for your help!
It goes to show you that these guys are not interested in you as a person, but in what they perceive you to be.
Yes, exactly. What also angers me though, is that people assume my husband has some kind of fetish for Asian women since I am part Asian. Yet he is the first man I met who was actually interested in who I am as opposed to what I am or what he thinks I am like.
Given that the people of Hawaii are predominantly Asian and Polynesian, I agree.
I am Asian and White and Hawaii is one of the only places I’ve heard of with a high population of people like me.
What?!?! Full Asian-blooded people only have black eyes! Get outta here! 😉
LOL I think it’s one of those cases where people see the world through their own confirmation bias. I’ve seen Asian people with grey-blue eyes and green eyes, though only once in my life (and they definitely weren’t contacts). Also, even though I’m half White, people still expect my eyes to be black and some people even insist that this colour is black:
@ Mei Ly
I have had Asians do this to me a lot! And some black people. With whites, not so much. They might say I have a unique look. It can be very embarrassing. 😦
I’m sorry you’ve had that happen to you. I hate it. Especially if they are really touchy-feely as I described. I have no problem with touching strangers, but when it is in the kind of situation I mentioned it makes me really uncomfortable.
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Oops, I don’t think my photos worked. The links:
http://yfrog.com/epeyeonly2j
http://yfrog.com/64eyeonlyif4j
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Mei Ly
I’m not asian and have been considered exotic. *shrug* i never felt offended by it.
—
Same here.
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@ Ella:
You have pretty eyes! I’m horrible with guessing eye colors. Is your eye color hazel/green-ish?
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@ Mei Ly:
Go Ara has done some Korean shows in the past.
Hey, maybe we know the same guy! 😉
My eyes are dark brown. I like the color. I’ve had some people (yet again, white people) proclaim, “No, no. Your eyes are black.”
My eye color looks like this young woman’s eye color on your left.
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Ella says,
@leigh204
It goes to show you that these guys are not interested in you as a person, but in what they perceive you to be.
Yes, exactly. What also angers me though, is that people assume my husband has some kind of fetish for Asian women since I am part Asian. Yet he is the first man I met who was actually interested in who I am as opposed to what I am or what he thinks I am like.
laromana says,
Ella, thanks for this important observation about the true meaning behind stereotypes about Asian women promoted by certain men.
I think that because there are many AW who have been able to benefit from the AW stereotypes these men promote and have even come to consider themselves “BETTER” than BW/OTHER NON-AW as a result of these men’s AW FAVORITISM/ANTI-NON-AW BIAS, this creates the false impression that ALL AW agree with them, too.
As you (and other like minded AW) speak out against AW stereotypes and REJECT AW superiority myths, you’ll help everyone to view/treat AW as INDIVIDUALS instead of STEREOTYPES.
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Thanks. Yes, they are hazel: light brown and green (though blue and brown is also called hazel). Most of the time they look brown though.
Doesn’t look black at all to me!
Do you also have that most of the people who think your eyes are black are White people with very light colouring? Really pale skin, pale blue eyes, blonde hair, etc.
@ laromana
I hope so because even ‘positive’ stereotypes are damaging to everyone. Even those who are not members of the ethnicity being stereotyped can be damaged.
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@Ella:
My eye color looks like this young woman’s eye color on your left.
It’s interesting you mentioned this. I’ve never really paid attention before, but, yes, these people happened to have fair colouring.
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I had mentioned earlier *not sure if anyone caught it* but i really think these stereotypes are reinforced by many asian guys as well, and possibly some asian women.
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Isn’t black eye color kind of rare too? Not dark brown, but black black. I think the majority of Asians have eye color in the brown family but not black. I could be wrong on this…please correct me if so.
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@ Mei Ly:
I haven’t come across any Asians with the black eye color, but it’s not impossible. The closest thing to black-eyed Asians are the ones who wear these special black lenses called circle lens as seen here which, btw, is very popular in Asia.
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The East Asian feminine mantra?
EAST IS EAST, AND WEST IS WEST
BUT WHITE **** IS BEST!
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yea…I want circle lenses for years now!!!
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@leigh204
I wonder if it is to do with them seeing their own colouring as normal, so other colours appear much darker than they actually are?
I remember observing an argument somewhere about whether a certain celebrity was blonde or not (she was South American and called herself a blonde). It was mainly between Scandinavians (where very light colouring is common) and South Americans (where very light colouring is not as common). The Scandinavians were arguing the woman had brown hair and the South Americans were arguing she had blonde hair!
@ Mei Ly
I think you’re right. Most have brown eyes, ranging from dark to light.
These are probably decent examples of the closest to a black eye colour that I’ve seen (though the first looks like a very dark brown):
Also, as with all contact lenses, it’s best to check with your optometrist if the circle lenses are okay for your eyes.
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Yes, I have seen people consider some color blond but I call a light brown.
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I’m sorry but are Asians really perceived as having secrets and ancient wisdom? That one brought the lols.
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Honestly I think all cultures have ancient “secrets”. I mean, being in different part of the world you have different foods and such that could make different medicines, beauty treatements. Mix that in with different religious/spiritual practices and wah lah…”secrets”. lol.
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@Leon:
Yes, it’s quite amusing. I’ve had some people assume I must know Kung Fu or karate when it couldn’t be further from the truth. lol!
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@ Mei Ly:
My mother had a lot of different remedies and beauty treatments that may seem odd or unusual by Western standards, but they worked! I guess you would call them homeopathic remedies.
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Leigh, please share! I love beauty stuff!!!!
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@Mei Ly:
I’d be glad to share with you! 😀 Back in the day, my grandmother and mother would liberally apply coconut oil to my skin and hair to make it soft. My mother would mash pineapple and apply it to my skin. I used to break out a lot and the pineapple had these enzymes to cleanse the skin, hence, less skin troubles. Another thing, for visible pimples, you apply the egg yolk with a q-tip on your spots. The high vitamin A content in the egg yolk heals your pimples. Oh, a homeopathic remedy was to brew pomegranate rinds in boiling water to make a “tea” for PMS. There’s more but I can’t think of any at this moment. 🙂
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OMG! I use coconut oil on my hair and I heard it is good for the skin too!
I have never heard of Pineapple but I will try!!
What about for blemishes?
Yes, these ancient exotic secrets sound great! So mysterious! 😉 lol!
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@Mei Ly:
Here’s this:
A milk and lime wash (boil milk and lime juice and cool down then apply to face and wash off)
Try this as well…pureed papaya on blemishes.
Well, you gotta hand it to these ancient folks with their mysterious ways. 😉
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Thank you so much! I really appreciate it.
A question for you. Hopefully doesn’t sound too odd of a question. But why do you come to this site, although it has many different themes to discuss you also discuss on racism towards blacks. Not that this is at all something bad or wrong!! You seem very nice and I like hearing your thoughts 😀 I am just curious if you have a strong interest in the black community/culture. If so, how did it begin?
You don’t have to answer. I am being very nosy atm I must admit. hehe. 🙂
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@Mei Ly:
You’re very welcome. 😀
I don’t mind answering your question. In fact, the same question was posed to me last year on abagond’s blog, but not in such a friendly manner. Where do I begin? Let’s see. Well, for one, I have some relatives who married interracially: black and white. My cousin-in-laws are a welcome addition to the family.
Also, when my mother first immigrated, she didn’t know anyone. The first person who befriended her was black. They became such good friends that my mother told me to call her tita which means “aunt” in my mother’s native tongue. And even to this day, they’re very good friends.
My mother who taught me that while we all have our differences, we are more similar than not. I hope that answers your question. 🙂
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@Leigh
Good thing I came back to this blog entry. I never saw that you had posted and thought maybe you didn’t want to answer. I’m glad your family has some good experience with other cultures. So easily the opposite can happen.
Your mom must be great. It seems she brought into this world a really sweet person! 😀
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish
Columbia study on racial preferences in dating
In 2007 economist Ray Fisman, in a two-year study he co-authored on dating preferences among Columbia University students, did not find evidence of a general preference among white men for Asian women. Furthermore, the study found that there is a significantly higher pairing of white men with East Asian women simply because East Asian women discriminate racially against black and hispanic men. As quoted on Slate.com, and also reported in the Washington Post [1] and The Review of Economic Studies [2] (a publication of the London School of Economics and Political Science [3] ):[14]
“ We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women’s neutrality, not the men’s pronounced preference. Men don’t seem to discriminate based on race when it comes to dating. A woman’s race had no effect on the men’s choices. ”
The study was carried out over two years and was conducted by economists Ray Fisman (lead researcher from Columbia University) and Emir Kamenica (University of Chicago), as well as psychologists Sheena Iyengar (Columbia University) and Itamar Simonson (Stanford). They took data from “thousands of decisions made by more than 400 daters from Columbia University’s various graduate and professional schools.” [15]
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Most White men don’t have a strong preference for Asian women.
Asian women would like you to believe that they are innocently being chase by White men and that’s not the whole truth.
What Asian women won’t admit is they have White fetish and so White men act on it.Many White men who go for Asian women are usually old,nerdy,socially weird etc…
If White men truly believe Asian women were these beautiful dolls,so why is the Blond hair/Blue eyes women still remain the epitome of beauty in the Western world?
What you will find is that many White men who go for Asian do so out of desperation.
Movies like She’s out My League, What Happens In Vegas display how the Western World view Asian women.
Asian women tend to play into the stereotype for these men,well their true color comes to light after marriage and children.
A friend of my family was married to an Asian woman and now he swear off to Asian women.He said that Asian women were like a present,you don’t know what is in the content,until you unwrapped the present.
I wonder what is the divorce rate between AW/WM is,because these relationship are usually based artificial views/stereotypes.
The Asian woman usually want a White man,money,green card or mixed children.The White man assumed Asian women are different from other women,docile,submissive,etc…
I rarely hear European White men making these statements about Asian women compare to White-American men.
I also read an article about I.R. dating in Europe,Asian women in term of Chinese,etc,had the lowest number of I.R. dating.
It was surprising to find the phenomenon of Asian and White dating was between Asian men and White women.
I would say that most European men do tend to believed that that White European women are the best but maybe they also don’t have find Asian women attractive on a whole.
I was wondering if it’s also due to Americans believing more in stereotypes or from the lack of traveling etc…
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@Mei Ly:
My family has always been more open than the “average” Asian family. I just think it’s great.
Aww, thanks! The person I am today is because of my mom. 🙂
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@Leigh
Do you think Filipino’s are more open then other asians? If so, why do you think so? It seems so to me. But I don’t want to stereotype. Although, perhaps my posts seem otherwise.
Which, I hope they haven’t offended you in any way. I find honesty is the best, and if my thinking is wrong I don’t mind correction. 😀
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@ Mei Ly:
Yes, I believe so.
Well, I think Filipinos tend to be more open due to the many influences brought and even forced from China, Spain, the U.S., etc. throughout the past couple of centuries. Colonization is made quite an impact.
I’m not offended at all. Far from it. My feeling is there’s nothing wrong with asking – engaging in open communication is key to understanding each other.
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*Oopsie. I meant colonization has made quite an impact.
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DUDE, you’re perhaps the most ignorant poorly educated person I’ve EVER come across. any one with even a small brain should avoid you like the plague. you’ve obviously grown up some where education isn’t valued or respected. I’m a black male from a Chicago suburb. My parents were the children of farmers, who worked hard to earn there $246,000 salary every year. By the age of 13 i had an IQ of 128. you represent what’s wrong with our society. you represent an angry bitter person who wishes to blame others for his failures. Do all of us a favor and stop with the self pity and ignorance.
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@ Chaz..
Wow, that REALLY relates to stereotypes about Asian women! After reading about how stupid the OP is, how much your parents made every year (I assume they never got raises) and How high your I.Q. was at 13, I have totally concluded that there is no such thing as an East Asian women stereotype! Good job explaining!!
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Obsidian,
Here’s one forthright AA woman complaining, and there’s more of us, if only you’d listen. The problem is not that [white] men like submissive women, it’s that they (and you, it sounds like–I hope not) expect AW and AAW to be submissive because of their skin color. And sexually voracious, and pliant. I think you know the problem with applying a completely incorrect cardboard stereotype to, oh, half a billion people.
Personally, this translates into reluctance to date white (how would I be sure he’s attracted to my sense of humor rather than to a racist stereotype?), aggressive race-based sexual comments (more annoying than the merely sex-based ones), and the predominant belief on my (Ivy League) college campus that AAW or AW translates to promiscuous and submissive. I want to clock every guy I hear who claims to have yellow fever (or that Asian girls are sooo slutty/easy/wild), but that’s far too much clocking for one person. My arm would get tired, and I’d never get to do what I really want to do, like juggling.
Stereotypes don’t benefit anyone. Also, incidentally, body type varies enormously in a population of 1 billion+ people. Just so you know.
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Realized I might have been unclear. To be specific:
“There’s a reason why so many East Asian Women are so vastly preferred as wives over White Women by White guys.”
Yes. It’s called racism.
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Hannu L
As an asian woman ,here’s my perspective
“I’ve never thought of AW being more feminine or sexual than others. Nor do I find them especially attractive, excluding someone like Lucy Liu”.
Insterestingly enough out of all famous asian actress out there you would choose Lucy Liu as someone you find as atracttive.I assumed she is the only famous asian woman you know because I could named hundreds of more beautiful asian woman I know both from the streets and the media.It might surprised you to know that Lucy Liu is never considered as attractive in Asia.
“I’ve seen a few of those couples in my home country. More often than not, the women are quite attractive (medium or above), whereas the finnish men are older, obese or unattractive in some other way.”
I’m from Cambodia but I definitely familiar with thai mail order brides you referring to. I have to say most of them are not really what I considered as attractive( not even reaching the medium).I imagine if they are attractive in some other way they would have end up becoming actress,a model or a rich asian men’s wives or mistress.If you ask the local female most of them would quickly pointed that most of thai women who married western men tend to be ugly.Infact there is a strong perception white men only digs ugly asian women who probably have been rejected by asian men.Unsurprisingly this perception also exist in China,Japan and Phillipines.This is my opinion based on my general observation which you can disagree but I think we both could agree that asian woman like Lucy Liu,her beauty would not receive any appreciation in Asia the same way the she receive in the west.The next time you see older,obese,unattractive finnish men with an asian mail order brides,I would say the ugly asian mail order brides perfectly complement him.
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@sebhai:
Hannu L
As an asian woman ,here’s my perspective
“I’ve never thought of AW being more feminine or sexual than others. Nor do I find them especially attractive, excluding someone like Lucy Liu”.
Thank you! Why is it when someone refers to a pretty AW then Lucy Liu is almost always mentioned. Seriously, she would not stand out in a crowd among other AW.
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Actually, I have heard of this common perception. Personally, I know a couple of mail order brides. While they were not ugly, far from it, their husbands happened to be fat, balding, and downright unattractive.
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I suppose it’s subjective, but again Lucy Liu wouldn’t be considered particularly pretty in Asia. While Lucy’s a noted actress in the West, her looks wouldn’t stand out in many parts of Asia. For example, imho, she doesn’t compare to the actresses beauty-wise in my mom’s motherland of the Philippines.
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Abagond:
Asian women are beautiful women, but they were dealt a cruel hand by “Mother Nature.” Asian men got screwed in the worst way……they’re short, don’t have athletic physiques, and not well-endowed. It’s not PC to state the obvious, but somebody has to. Yes, many asian women run into the arms of whitemen because of poverty, but even if poverty was taken out of the mix, they would still be attracted to whitemen anyway. Whitemen are not as physically and sexually gifted as blackmen are, but they got a helluva lot more working for them than asian men do. Again, people should not make the simple complex, state the obvious. Asian women like blackmen as well, but we don’t have the money and power whitemen have.
Sex is great and all, but it can’t trump wealth and power. If blackmen were runnin’ s**t, they would be with blackmen, Maybe!!!
Don Aquarius
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@Tyrone:
I don’t know which Asian men you run into, but they’re not all short, they do have athletic physiques, and being well-endowed has nothing to do with it. Tell that to the several billions of Asians getting it on.
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Wow, Tyrone! Way to go! You just managed put all the points of this post into one measly paragraph! Who needs Abagond’s 500 words when we have you around? Oh, wait, I forgot: you don’t know what you’re talking about. Silly me.
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@ Tyrone
Asian men got screwed in the worst way……they’re short, don’t have athletic physiques, and not well-endowed.
1) Really, are Asian men shorter than Asian women?
2) Bruce Lee didn’t have an athletic physique???
3) How many Asian men’s penises have you seen… and under what circumstances? How did you first become a dick expert?
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“Personally, I know a couple of mail order brides. While they were not ugly, far from it, their husbands happened to be fat, balding, and downright unattractive.”
I’m guessing you’re referring to the mail order brides from Phillipines but if ever you come to Thailand you would notice it’s definetely a cliche to see unattractive Thai women(bargirls,mail order brides) with a western men irrespective of the way he looks.I noticed the same thing in Cambodia.In fact a lot of cambodian believes that white men are less shalow when it comes to choosing asian women as their partner.
I used to think that probably they just want a docile wife so they don’t care about how she looks.
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When I think of mail order brides, I’m honestly wondering what is going through their minds….such as this young woman. *shudders*
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It is stupid to deem Asain Women as feminine or submissive Actually some nations like korea, china, women are pretty dominent, they boss around Korean men Chinese men.(Chinese men and Korean men seem to be submissive to their ladies). However, it is true that some of them especially developing Asain nations women will treat western men better than they treat Asain men or be submissive to men of developed countries. Has any western men with some brain ever thought about if western nations are third world countries would these Asain girls treat western men in a gentle submissive way.I just do not understand why some poor nations men(even some of them are nice) can not date an Asain girl. I can swear in front of god I am not white ladies or Asain men, I just want to state some facts. we can not deny the fact that the popularity of men is decided by the economy background of their countries.
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Interesting read. Thank you! Who wrote and published this?
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[…] husbands treat their wives, it’s almost as if they’re trying to model them as “China dolls” – quiet and submissive. I can’t figure out why women would want to be like that, […]
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Anyone falling for the Asian woman is submissive is in for a big wake up call. If anything a lot of Asian cultures it is the woman who handles the Finances. In Japan she dools out her husband a pitances of his paycheck. I see a ton of divorce foreign guys do nothing but complain when I was checking Korea and China. Idiots! If you could handle a woman at home your probably not going to be able to handle one from another contry. At least in your home country your culture is closer. Submissive, wahaahhaa!
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I had this particular conversation with two friends (black and Egyptian) in college. I had a pretty good laugh, because this stereotypes were very nonsensical, given how conservative, prime, and proper Chinese culture is. (Not sure if I can speak for East Asia.)
The one thing I do want to point out is that at least for my Asian friends and those who have grown up in the States (like myself), marrying white men isn’t as much as a fetish, model minority, stereotypes thing, but most of it comes down to modern, American cultural values. Those of us who are raised in the US by first gen/immigrant parents straddle both the conservative old world attitudes and the liberty of being in the United States. The unfortunate truth is that we, as women, are often subservient to our families and worth less simply because of our gender. There seems to be less of this perception by white men. Either that or being raised with American values such as the ability to choose what we want to do and who we want to date and religious/moral values play a role in choosing to date white men. Hence why there are so many Asian women who date white men as a way of getting out of a repressive family environment or expressing a taste of “freedom.”
I hope my rambling made some sense. It’s late and I’m falling asleep. =/
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@ Anya
But if your parents are conservative and old world, wouldn’t their preference be that you marry a Chinese man? And if you are truly subservient to your family’s wishes then wouldn’t you be bound to accommodate their expectations?
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@King,
I don’t particularly care what type of person/race my future husband will be as long as we share the same religion and values. Because of my faith (Oriental Orthodox Christianity), I am likely to marry someone who shares that same faith as me but who isn’t my race or white! My father is a teensy bit more liberal than most Chinese parents (he spent part of his childhood in Europe), and we’ve had this particular discussion. I’ve set him very straight about this topic.
Tbh, I don’t really want to date/get married ever in my life. I’ve seen the worst of relationships and don’t want to get into the entire marriage ish.
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This preference can be explained by culture without respect to race. Perhaps those critical of such women and their choices may wish to consider the impact of male privilege around the world.
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@Kiwi
“I can try speaking out, but being an Asian male, I’d come across as having a dog in the fight. Furthermore, I’d be feeding the stereotype of the typical misogynistic, patriarchal Asian male who wants to control “his” women (all 2 billion of them LOL) and the white men would then feel even more validated and justified in their entitled attitudes towards Asian women (the white male savior mentality). ”
I can understand your confusion. I too have had times where I wondered if it was my place to speak up and if I did whether it would come across as patronizing or that I was talking in place of someone else.
In this case, if the lady who was the subject of the stereotype does not speak up I think you are justified in speaking up. I do not think it would be patriarchal. And, if it does border on patriarchy I still think it is more important to check the white dude who was making the stereotype. Someone needs to make this white man aware that his words are insulting.
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@Kiwi,
Sorry, I was locked up in a place with no wordpress, facebook, youtube, etc. last week. Could not reply to your comment a while back.
I agree that Filipinos are more colonized, but I am not sure if that is the same thing as closed minded.
True, after 350 years of Mexican / Spanish missions and sugar plantations followed by 50-115 years of baseball and Hollywood (and later NBA and MTV), the Philippines is probably the most colonized place I have ever visited in Asia. When I went there the first time after spending several months in Malaysia and Singapore, I almost felt that I had just stepped back in the USA, esp. like Los Angeles. And the colour consciousness there seemed more like Mexican style (rather than like other parts of Asia or even the USA for that matter). There is social value in having more European or Chinese ancestry (and therefore, lighter skin) and western, particularly American, is seen as better (although there is an undercurrent of love / hate relationship with the USA who is perceived as running their country sometimes). But the Philippines is not the only place in Asia that has a colonized mentality – you can see it in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Macau, probably India, Sri Lanka, etc. (I haven’t been there yet). Even South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand have some colonized impacts from the West. The Philippines is perhaps the extreme example, but not the only one. In fact, I find Singapore to be colonized to a high degree. Even Hong Kong clings somewhat to its colonized mentality.
But upon further investigation, you can still see the elements of the Malay, Chinese, Arab and Indian cultures (and DNA) impacting the Philippines. But it is underneath a general colonized mentality. It seems like they absorbed so many more elements of American (and perhaps Mexican) culture and not always the best parts of it.
But then you jump to your anecdotal comments about your viewpoint of Filipino Americans. But, please realize that you are talking about a very small number of people you encounter among a self-selected group of people that decided to migrate and settle in the USA. It is hardly representative of an entire national origin. Being self-selected, there may be a higher proportion of those in the USA that are more bent on amalgamating with white people, but I wouldn’t paint the entire Philippines in exactly that way. But, I think the more pervasive influence on Asian-Americans in the USA is the set of messages pumped through the education system and the media which in effect colonizes all its peoples. This effect is even more powerful then the colonization effect BEFORE their ancestors arrived in the USA and all Asian Americans have been impacted to a high degree. I am sure you have known plenty of Taiwanese and Korean American women quite keen on white amalgamation.
I must admit also, the Philippines are also slower to take advantage of the explosion in the Mainland Chinese tourist trade. They still seem oriented towards the USA and Europe, reflecting their colonized mentality bias. Thailand, it seems, it much more willing to switch their focus to China.
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@Legion
Yes, I agree. And I agree the purpose is not to win the argument but maintain your dignity and conscience. Otherwise it will spiral into a series of negative thoughts that ruin other aspects of your life.
I don’t think you have to go as far as saying “Go f**k yourself” but there is no problem with speaking up politely but firmly if not just for one’s conscience and dignity.
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I don’t think you have to go as far as saying “Go f**k yourself”
Why not? I do it all the time, in fact it has become my clarion call. There are a million ways to tell bholes what to do with themselves without uttering any cuss words.
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Jefe:
I must admit also, the Philippines are also slower to take advantage of the explosion in the Mainland Chinese tourist trade. They still seem oriented towards the USA and Europe, reflecting their colonized mentality bias. Thailand, it seems, it much more willing to switch their focus to China…
More Asians visit the Philippines than Europeans.
http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/12/17/1269460/chinese-tourists-visiting-philippines-down-70-pct-2013
There is a heavy Korean tourist presence in parts of the Philippines, especially Boracay….Thailand is just more adept at marketing itself globally. (it has 15 times the number of visitors per year than the PI..) As for Americans visiting the Philippines a high percentage are of Filipino descent or are (US) ex-military. One of the reasons that there aren’t more Chinese tourists is that there is a perception that the Philippines is unsafe.
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Kiwi:
But once, one of my Asian male friends complained to me very angrily that she and her white female friends (most of her friends are white) had stereotyped him as an “Asian male loser” and he overheard them laughing at him behind his back. He was very upset about this and I lost my respect for this female friend. We no longer talk.
I fully agree with the others, that there are plenty of times you should speak up and this was one of them.. at least ask a few pointed questions before you accuse her of anything but enough to make her squirm (I suspect she would deny saying it or at least say it was misheard…) but at the very least give her (or any White guy who harasses you..) a little shame.
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@U M
I am familiar with all you mentioned – I have been following both Philippines and Thailand closely for decades and go to both places several times per year over the past 20+ years. In fact, I am currently seriously considering spending an extended time in one or the other in the near future.
I don’t think it changes anything I said.
Couple points
– I am not sure if how the statistics in the article you referenced should be interpreted. Even if it refers to “markets” it doesn’t mean that they are not westerners. For example, most of the tourists I met in the Philippines from Singapore (and many of the ones from Taiwan and China) are actually westerners (and I think native Singaporeans are a bit western oriented already anyhow). But also, many from the USA could very well be “balikbayan”.
– Those visitor numbers are probably a drop in the bucket compared to Thailand.
– the figures do not include December, a peak time for visitors from Europe.
– I am very aware of the Korean presence in the Philippines, and have seen it explode in the past 10-15 years. There is even an emerging “Koreatown” in Manila. But those Korean establishments in Boracay and Cebu are often owned (perhaps with a nominal Filipino partner) and operated by Koreans serving visitors and residents from Korea. I never witnessed many Filipinos gravitating towards opening businesses or services focussed on the Korean market. Maybe I am wrong. Anyhow, there are still only a handful of Korean resorts in Boracay and Cebu (and a couple of the other resort areas around the Philippines).
– Agree that many American visitors to the Philippines have family connections or military connections to the Philippines. The Philippines has the largest expatriate American population in Asia.
– VERY aware of the perception in HK that Philippines is not safe. That perception was there well before the Manila Hostage crisis in 2010 and it only got worse, especially since the HK govt blacklisted the Philippines as a tourist destination. In Mainland China, I think it is more perceived as not very interesting without good food or shopping. They do not have quite as much emotional repulsion as many do in HK and do not see it as unsafe in the extreme that HK people do. However, they all seem to know that Filipino ethnic Chinese are often kidnapped or blackmailed and often need to provide their own security and bodyguards.
I still don’t think it changes anything I said. Filipinos have a much much stronger western colonized mentality, still much much more focused on Europe and America, than, say, China or Korea (regardless of what tourist statistics might suggest). I just don’t get that feeling as much in Thailand.
Anyhow, I think this is getting a bit off topic already. The post is about perceptions of East Asian descent women in the USA. I just didn’t think Kiwi should brand all Filipinos with a tarred brush. ABC’s in the USA and Fil-Ams are both indoctrinated by the USA educational system and media and both are rather colonized (as are most POC in the USA). Pointing fingers at them is like the pot calling the kettle black.
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@Sagat
@Obsidian
You 2 are idiots. Japanese women, Korean women, Chinese women are the most beautiful women in the world. No black man, no man period, thinks they have flat butts, you 2 are just making crap up as you go because you’re closet cases. East Asian women have pretty faces, big butts, large breasts, curves, the works. It’s S.E. Asian women who lack those assets unfortunately.
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@Hathor
@HannuL
What are you talking about? Are you 2 blind? E. Asian women are the most beautiful women in the world. Pretty girl faces, womanly bodies, that’s how they’re feminine.
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@Ella
@Aiyo
You 2 are either incredibly stupid. or just plain clueless. Those aren’t real stereotypes, just stuff you pulled out of your racist imaginations. Asian women are NOT stereotyped as being “boyish” or flat chested, or flat bottomed, because they simply are not. Please stop making up random crap that has no basis in reality. Thank you.
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@Mei Lei
Not a stereotype.
@Tyrone
I’m pretty sure the stereotype is that black men have small penises.
@canadianexpat
@Mira
You’re both really dumb if you actually believe those studies. It was proven years ago that information was falsified and put together by an incompetent business major. Recent, more reliable studies, have shown that East Asian women are THE most desirable women on the planet.
techland.time.com/2013/11/26/dating-app-reveals-troubling-racial-preferences/
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@Mira
Curvy black woman is NOT a stereotype.
@abagond
Please allow my comments to stay posted here. I apologize for the name calling, but these commentators are spilling racist idiotic bile all over this message board.
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I just read your comment policy about ad hominids. And I apologize if I had used any previously. If any comments need censored, please let it be the one directed at Tyrone.
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@Donny Tello
Those studies were done by a business major, not a sociologist, at an Ivy League College in NYC, not the globe. And did I mention Columbia U has a history of prejudice among the students and staff? My point is, I’m pretty sure an online survey done by professionals will show real results, not some garbage a grad student who wasn’t qualified to conduct something like that. May I link you to similar studies?
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sorry I meant to post
@Kiwi
On my part, “THE world” was a major exaggeration. Sorry.
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@Kiwi
Not just American culture, but the culture of other so-called “Western nations” with large E. Asian populations. But your right. It’s rather racist and objectifying.
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@Mira
Sorry “curvy black women” is a stereotype. A flattering, but probably still racist stereotype.
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@ Kiwi:
You posted:
When you said Filipinos were some of the more closed-minded Asians, were you referring to some of the Filipina women who dated/married white guys? I didn’t mean that. I meant that due to all the influences from all those countries for centuries made Filipinos more likely to interact/embrace non-Filipinos. Maybe Jefe can give his input, but I’m certain that compared to other Asians, Filipinos have always warmly welcomed people. If you’ve ever been around Filipinos, we tend to invite others to our homes, our parties. If we think you’re a good person, we will be your friend regardless of ethnic/racial background.
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Seconded.
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Thirded.
Yes, Filipinos are among the most welcoming people I have ever met. I have had Chinese-Americans and whites try to exclude me from their groups and activities, but never felt that with Filipinos.
When I visit the Philippines, I often feel like I came back home. I never got that feeling from people in Europe or in Greater China.
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Funny, that.
When I lived in Germany, my closest friends weren’t the Germans or people from nearby France or Poland, instead, Philippines.
Most of my girl friends were Filipinas: wives of German men.
(I can’t think of meeting many Filipino men, now that I think of it.)
This is not to say other individuals from other nationalities mentioned were not warm and true, but simply that I was never “on the outside” when in Filipina company — this was simply not allowed once they knew you well enough.
They simply loved you as one of their own.
I still kick myself for passing up repeated invitations to visit Philipppines due to work+study commitments. What a loss.
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@Bulanik
It’s not too late. There is still time. I still go there about 3 times a year, and I hope to go more.
I think it would be best to visit people you actually know or introduced to. Whereas I find Filipinos to be largely warm and hospitable, I am not sure it is that safe to travel around alone unless you know the place well.
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hum… I think people obviously like to generate Asian people more than any other ethnic groups of people in America since less than 5 % of Asians are actually Asian Americans in America; Asian is considered to be a minority in America and obviously a minority is isolated within a society and thus an easy target;
For example, people said, “why Asian girls are not dating with Asian men?” “Why Asian girls go crazy about Non-Asian men (Whites)?”
I found this to be very offensive and to be honest, people don’t seem to realize, “NOT ALL ASIANS ARE THE SAME!”
If I (Korean) date with an Asian men, it doesn’t mean I would not face a difficulty with language barriers or cultural differences; Korean are not the same as Chinese; Indian and Japanese don’t have same cultural backgrounds; They obviously eat different daily foods and dress up differently.
Obviously, most Koreans date and marry with Koreans; Most Indians marry with Indians; If you say why Korean is not dating with Indian? Chinese? or Iranian? It’s a different story; It’s pretty much like why not many Canadian date or marry with American ! At least Canadian and American have more similarities than Korean and Japanese !
People obviously like to generate us (Asian) and I really hope that people can realize if they are educated and grew up enough!
1. Not All Asians are the same…… Some are good; some are bad; some are tall; some are with natural blond (my friend who was 100% Korean had a natural blond hair with freckles/fair skin due to genetic melanin disorder); and some have blue eyes.
2. Not All Asians are from Asia! People with Asian features are judged to be not from America,
3. Stereotypes are just bullshit; It doesn’t matter whether it is good or bad; when someone look at you in the judgmental point of view, you feel suck; If you are old enough to experience that why you are judging others? why you look at others with stigma?
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I think American women as a whole, feel alone now in 2016, because men are just totally not into them. Men want women that “want to be women”! Those men that are sane. Clear thinking men of the US are looking elsewhere. Feminism has done its job and the end result is that we love “real feminine looking, feminine acting women. East Asian women generally and specifically fit the bill and this offends the hell out of american women. You can write as men articles about Asian stereotypes but it will not work. The Yellow fever is contagious! When men see other men enjoying a life filled with less hassle, less willfulness, less manliness, more “ladylike ness”, and more natural women, men become very keen to the Asian dream!! All stereotypes come from some form of original truth. As with Asian women? The key for men is, to find that truth, understand how the truth relates to his needs, and discard the angry, indecisive, utterly independant “but still needs a man” woman that feminism has produced in America. “We men leave you long time!”
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@kogdiesel2000
By “American” do you mean “white”? Aren’t East Asian women in the USA also American women?
So how do Asian men fit into this “Asian dream”? How about the boys of these white men and Asian women?
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