The black crime statistics argument points out that blacks commit crime at a way higher rate than whites and therefore blacks are more given to crime than whites – you know, because blacks are more violent, dangerous and immoral. It has been used to excuse white flight, bad policing and society the way it is – therefore helping to keep crime at much higher rates than in other rich Western countries.
For the argument to work one must assume the just world doctrine, the idea that America is more or less just and equal. Once you assume that, then you are pretty much forced to conclude there is something wrong with black people.
But for any meaningful comparison between black and white crime rates you need to take into account things like income, unemployment, the rate at which crimes are reported, etc. Further you need to assume that the police and the courts are not racist, which is rarely the case.
A good example is murder. In New York blacks are way more likely to murder someone than whites are. But does that mean blacks are more violent and savage than whites? Hardly.
I used to live in one of those parts of New York where blacks and Latinos were killing each other right and left. I never saw someone killed but I certainly heard the gunshots and knew two people who were shot dead, both black-on-black murders.
It had little to do with the supposedly violent or savage nature of black people and everything to do with the drug trade. In the process of getting drugs from South America to the good white people of North America blacks, as always, get stuck with the most dangerous and dirty work. Of course they are already breaking the law by selling drugs in the first place but blacks also have the highest rate of unemployment and so are more likely than others to turn to it. Not that that makes it right, of course, but we are talking about comparisons here.
But there is more: not only were most of the murders drug-related, the police did little about it: they seemed much more interested in protecting the lives of whites and Asians than those of blacks and Latinos. As with other city services, black ghettos are badly served by the police compared to other parts of the city.
So to just present the bare numbers,while it may seem clear-eyed, hard-headed and fair, is extremely misleading. Especially when presented to people who already have certain stereotypes about blacks. To assume from such numbers that there must be something wrong with blacks – as opposed to something profoundly wrong with how American society functions – is racist and, for white people, self-serving. It also has the effect of making crime a black thing, which means little is done about it other than to hire more police and build more prisons.
See also:
i remember once reading a blog post where a racist white was saying that people shouldn’t hire blacks because they show up to work late. these same whites are the ones always talking about blacks and welfare.
in my mind, what do you expect when you use stereotypes to judge if someone can do work or not? when i force myself out of bed every morning to head off to class i sometimes ask myself, “what is the point to working hard if some racist idiot is going to use preconceived notions as an excuse to not hiring me”.
i hate the fact that i am going to have to be beyond average in order to even be considered for a job (average and black vs. average and white means the black person is not going to be chosen).
i just wish whites would stop complaining about violence and welfare when they never do anything at all about.
and that whole white flight thing, from what i have seen whites tend to up and move at the sight of regular normal black families, not necessarily “ghetto” families. and those normal black families tend to up and leave at the sight of “ghetto” black families. i keep wondering, when will people stand up and fix the crime issue? eventually your going to run out of places to hide from reality.
i was reading an article in my town about how a black church is working on trying to eradicate the violence in crime in their neighborhood and whites were criticizing them for it…only a few whites got it and replied to the racists that you keep complaining about the violence and no one doing anything but then you criticize the blacks when they do try to do something about it.
LikeLike
For you to put Gates’ picture like that is too funny!! Had to laugh out loud.
LikeLike
i witness white flight at my church, the more blacks that came the more whites that dissapeared…pretty sad. My church used to be mixed, its now mostly black, with the exception of maybe two whites…
LikeLike
I have seen that too.
LikeLike
So, there are people who (honestly) believe black people are more violent by nature?
However, judging by this article, I’d say there is definitely a problem withing black (and Latino I guess) communities. Is there a way to make things better? Without waiting for whites to realize what’s going on?
LikeLike
I think the article is misleading.
I am not an expert on US crime stats.
I thought the stats showed that Blacks commit certain crimes and Whites commit another.
This is also the case with the use of drugs too
However, the crime of Blacks are more highlighted by the media. Hence creating the reality.
The racisy stereotype of Blacks being violent has its origins and traced in slavery, when the whites were ever fearful of slave revolts.
LikeLike
I don’t know if it’s “by nature” exactly anymore, Mira. Even the Klan seems to have bought the culture hypothesis these days. Most of the Klan’s splinters will tell you that supposed black “criminal behavior” is a cultural legacy of primitivism and slavery, and not something stuck in black genes.
Don’t buy the argument that Boas made a real paradigm shift in American race thinking: the REAL American belief was and continues to be essentialism and reductionism when it comes to human identity. Both biological race and culture theory can be quite easily warped to that end.
LikeLike
I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again:
This whole pathology that relates criminality and thugliness with being black is rooted in white guilt, not a geniune fear.
LikeLike
Even the Klan seems to have bought the culture hypothesis these days.
Really? I had no idea. Then again, I’m not really familiar with the latest Klan ideas.
Most of the Klan’s splinters will tell you that supposed black “criminal behavior” is a cultural legacy of primitivism and slavery.
Oh, ok, they got it- it is about nurture more than nature. But still, if they see black culture as described, it’s not much of a positive move (not that I expected a move, being the klan and all).
LikeLike
It’s fundamentally determinist essentialism that rules the roost when it comes to American identity, Mira. People ARE one thing and that thing supposedly defines their existence to the core. The actual mechanism they’ll quote to justify this changes. It used to be biology, then it switched to culture, now it seems to be moving towards something of a hybrid. But Americans, as a rule are SURE about their identities and SURE about other peoples’, even when they have to make them up whole cloth.
LikeLike
And let’s not forget that many laws in America are fundamentally directed against the poor.
LikeLike
Oh yes, it’s surprising to see poverty is often treated as some sort of moral failure in America.
LikeLike
I think solving the problem of inner city violence will massively reduce anti-black racism. However, that will require pro-active steps and hard work on the part of the populations suffering from high crime.
LikeLike
I’m helping to teach a class this semester on American cultural politics, Mira.
You can blame it all on those damned puritans.
LikeLike
Further you need to assume that the police and the courts are not racist, which is rarely the case.
Does a bear poop in the woods?
It had little to do with the supposedly violent or savage nature of black people and everything to do with the drug trade.
This is bang on! This is a crime of economy. Most of the ‘distributors’ are not black! Indeed, the distributors do not even live in the affected communities! Most of the black dealers are street level operatives, who basically make ‘chump change’, in comparison to the distributors. Look at the history of crime. Any black dealer who aspires to that of distributor, is quickly shut down unless they agree to work with the distributors, sort of like a franchise. They are not the ones in control, they take orders.
In the process of getting drugs from South America to the good white people of North America blacks, as always, get stuck with the most dangerous and dirty parts.
They are seen as dispensable. For everyone killed, there are many willing to fill the void. As weird as it sounds, this is probably one of the few industries that inflation hardly touches. If nothing else, they, the distributors, are business people who are willing to promote and package their products. They don’t care about the trickle down deleterious effects it may have on society a community, or an individual. Much like some other legitimate ‘businesses’. Hence the use of black men in particular in the selling of their product. They couldn’t care less as to the devastating effects.
It also has the effect of making crime a black thing, which means little is done about it other than to hire more police and build more prisons.
Even though there are mo whites consuming drugs, illicit or legal, a disproportionate amount of blacks are incarcerated. It appears that the poor whites get caught up in this to a lesser degree. Of course the laws are such, that it is much easier to go after the most disaffected than the distributors themselves. It’s like they are being punished for selling these drugs to whites more than anything else! Don’t even get into what group is taking what, that is another post in and of itself! The media has managed to skew reality to a great degree! Someone is making bucket loads of money and it isn’t the crack seller or the crack heads, or other assorted ‘dealers’!
Nope, this argument that blacks commit more crimes is a bunch of horse manure when quoting statistics does not put them in there proper social context. But this is so, as with any type of statistics. That is why I call bullsh$t on those who do, besides, what does it have to do with an argument 99% of the time unless crime is being discussed? And if crime is being discussed it must be done so in it’s social context, not as straight forward numbers by rote. Anyone can look bad if these stats aren’t put into context. And people like to skew facts and present them so as to prove their point. If rattling off numbers with no context effects this, than this is what they do. Therein lies one of the problems with this ‘argument’ besides being racist.
LikeLike
Having read Herinth piece reminded me of this book.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=flIjcQBwu68C&dq=Pipe+Dream+Blues:+Racism+and+the+War+on+Drugs+…&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=1Kt8S_uNF5Oy0gTz0MHNBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false
LikeLike
To Mynameismyname:
“This whole pathology that relates criminality and thugliness with being black is rooted in white guilt, not a geniune fear.”
Sorry I strongly disagree. It’s not middle class (For the most part it’s not Middle class Blacks that Whites fear… and it is fear…..I am sure there are some confused Whites who have those attitudes..)
You, Abagond, and I have hashed over this a few times. I plan on a lengthy post a little bit later.
LikeLike
Myname, do you SERIOUSLY believe that white people feel guilty about this issue?
Because that is definitely not what I see.
LikeLike
Crime is obviously not a problem unique to black people and blacks don’t do anything that other races don’t do. However, what makes the difference is proportion and scale of it. Socio-economic reasons are always given as the main culprit(which is just a another way of saying that the crime rates are the fault of whites), but then what explains the disproportionate participation in crime which has no socio-economic motivation, such as rape? If everything were about socio-economics rather than values and lack of moral conscientiousness, the black rape rate should be no greater than the national average. But that’s not the case.
I also think lack of values and morals are the reason nearly everyone commits crimes, regardless of race, and I don’t think blacks are any exception. It ain’t poverty. Why can one go to a poverty stricken like Cambodia or Senegal and be safer than you would in an American ghetto? The crime rate of poor whites and poor blacks is also divergent. Why is that? It socio-economic argument doesn’t add up.
And think about this, why would being poor make you VIOLENT. If I was poor, I couldn’t imagine myself shooting the cashier in the head at the corner store. I was simply raised better.
I know many believe that “if only there were more jobs and less racist cops and judges, black crimes rates would be no higher than the white rate”, but I think that’s delusion. In the last few generations you’ve had a breakdown of the black family and majority of black boys being raised by single mothers. Then on top of that you have music being pumped into the black youth that glorifies fast money and fast women and too often violence and aggression. Think of 50 Cent’s debut album “get rich or die trying” with a menacing photo of him aiming a gun in your face. Think of what that communicates to the youth. Now think about how many inner city kids look up to this dude like an archetype of black masculinity. Not to digress but you’re even seeing this crap bleed into Brazil with favela kids using gangsta themese to glorify drugs, sex and violence. Some Brazilian cities even banned the Brazilian rap during Carnival which has been blamed for promoting violence in an already quite violent country. Where is this poisoning of the youth’s minds going to take us in the 21st century?
I don’t have any problem calling racism when I see it, but sorry, saying that racism is the root of inner city crime I just don’t buy.
LikeLike
Is this another tautology here he he??
“Crime is obviously not a problem unique to black people and blacks don’t do anything that other races don’t do= However, what makes the difference is proportion and scale of it??”
I had another question, but I’ll ask that later…
LikeLike
The first rule of the tautology society is the first rule of the tautology society.
http://xkcd.com/703/
LikeLike
alwaysright101:
i was reading an article in my town about how a black church is working on trying to eradicate the violence in crime in their neighborhood and whites were criticizing them for it…only a few whites got it and replied to the racists that you keep complaining about the violence and no one doing anything but then you criticize the blacks when they do try to do something about it.
Exactly I know so much of that, whites will complain that blacks need to “pul themselves up by the bootstraps” but when they arrange something like that say a company that elp supports black owned buissness then whites cry out “oh if we had a all white so and so that would be racist” blah blah blah
LikeLike
Regarding the black crime statistics, why is it believed as fact that more young black males are in jail than in college when the opposite is true?
LikeLike
So called “black crime” is not an excuse for racism. Were Africans commiting crimes when they were enslaved by the millions?
So called black crime is just a convenient excuse for racist ideology. All groups commit crime and crime knows no color. Just ask Wayne Gacy and other serial killers/pedophiles.
LikeLike
@Patricia Kayden:
And isn’t interesting that when white people commit crimes, they are looked as individuals, but when black people/POC do it, the whole group is demonized.
LikeLike
Were Africans commiting crimes when they were enslaved by the millions?
Of course they were. They were running away from the plantations by the thousands and that was quite clearly theft under state and federal law at the time. 😀
[Ducks and covers…]
LikeLike
ha ha ha…
http://xkcd.com/123/
I think I will go on to ask my second question if I may…
With regard to:
“I also think lack of values and morals are the reason nearly everyone commits crimes, regardless of race, and I don’t think blacks are any exception. It ain’t poverty. Why can one go to a poverty stricken like Cambodia or Senegal and be safer than you would in an American ghetto? The crime rate of poor whites and poor blacks is also divergent. Why is that? It socio-economic argument doesn’t add up”.
Que: So does this mean ‘poor blacks’ lack ‘values and morals’ vis-a-vis ‘poor whites’??
LikeLike
And on a lighter note:
Was there any irony, or was it chance that you used a picture of Henry Louis Gates under arrest, who I have heard recently (I don’t know if it is correct or) not has always been against ‘police brutality’ etc until his unfortunate experiences…??
LikeLike
Another excellent post. I also wonder about the psychological aspect of “low expectations”. Being assumed to be delinquent, when you are not, would eventually have some effect on the psyche. At least, that has been my experience.
One of my favorite quotes about the drug trade is from the Economist. It describes the American shaming of South American governments as “the worlds biggest consumer of drugs, passing judgment on others”. It is pure hypocrisy.
Like you mentioned, although minorities are heavily involved in the drug trade, most of the consumers are white. We also mustn’t trivialize the fact that crack is treated as a much more dangerous drug than cocaine.
From Drug War Facts (http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64):
LikeLike
First of all, how do you know that whites use drugs five times greater than blacks? What did they do a survey? That stat is completly bogus. When it comes to violent crimes, blacks commit those crimes at much higher rate than other Americans. There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.
Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.
An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003).
However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless
LikeLike
I as a Black female am no more responsible for “black crime” than individual Whites are responsible for “white crime”.
White have proven that despite allegedly being more civilized than others (or so they claim), they can be as violent, brutal, evil, etc., as any so-called savage.
So all this blah blah blah about “black crime” does not phase me in the least. Bring on the stats. The one thing I know is that I am not going to feel guilty or otherwise take responsibility for what other Blacks do.
Whites have had that luxury for centuries.
LikeLike
Note: that comment by “Janice” has appeared on this blog five times before and appears on the Web 65 times altogether. It is standard racist troll cut-and-paste. But at least for once it is on topic.
LikeLike
Janice said:
“Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population”
Please state your source for that.
LikeLike
J:
I did not know that Gates was for police brutality now.
I chose the picture of Gates as shorthand for police racism.
LikeLike
I don’t know either to be honest, but I remember seeing something on youtube. I am not sure what it is called but it is a series involving two black conscious brothers as they called themselves, or something like that.
They suggested Gates ‘roughing up by the police’ was a case of the ‘chicken’s coming home to roost’.
Maybe if I get time I will see if I can find the link again – it wont be easy though. Perhaps you know the brithers or the clip that I am referiing to??
LikeLike
Black&German
Thank you for you break down on the racist drug laws that people like Janice and other racist trolls support. The school to jail pipeline is a laise faire way to restrict black and Hispanic opportunities and citizenship and transfer minority tax dollars into the hands of whites. The poor quality of black and Hispanic schools and the derth of employment in minority working class help fill the ranks of low level drug dealing with expendable blacks and Hispanics. These dealers do not get to rise in the ranks and use their capital to create businesses in their communities like white ethnics and Asian drug dealers do.
Being “tough on crime” gets votes and secures city, state and federal taxes for the judicial system. It is much more cost effective to round up these young men and women and lock them up under racially biased laws than actually seeking out the upper level distributors, banks and other businesses that profit from drug money or protecting the community members against the violence that plays out during drug transactions and beefs. The phenomenal increase in the black and Hispanic jail population has also resulted in a boom in jobs in law enforcement for whites outside these communities. Since racists are not know for their ability to unpack complex ideas, we will always have people like Janice who inflate their egos by propagating simplistic rants based on their white supremacy.
LikeLike
With regard to:
“J:
I did not know that Gates was for police brutality now.
I chose the picture of Gates as shorthand for police racism”.
Here is the clip from youtube. I will take it back that Gates was for police brutality.
However, as the ‘Sons of Malcolm’ says ‘it was the best thing the police could do for Blacks’ ha ha ha ha ha!!
LikeLike
Leigh said:
When I’ve heard that statistic, it has always been for a specific age range, not all age categories of black males. Men tend to be most criminally prone from their late teens through their 20s. So maybe if you’re looking at that specific age demographic it’s true. I don’t even know for absolute certain though that that’s even accurate. Are they only talking 4 year universities? Do they include junior colleges and vocational schools into the stats? And of course some people with sloppy reasoning are going to think that just because a black man isn’t in college means he’s going to be out committing crime, a false dichotomy. There’s a lot in between going to school and becoming a prisoner. That’s why I don’t like the way that argument is set up, because it leads people to believe that more black males are doing something bad than doing something good and the polarizing nature of the question can allow people to forget that most black males are NEITHER in prison OR in college.
LikeLike
White males commit way more violent crime than black females, so that’s a point you as a black woman can certainly make. So a white person really has no reason to cross to other side of a street at night if a black woman is walking toward them.
All races have shown brutality in their histories, either organized(war) or as individuals(crime). It’s a human thing.
As a black man, I know what it feels like being constantly beaten over the head with stats about how many of us are in jail, have AIDS, are on welfare, etc etc. Especially if it’s coming from someone like WNs who hate black people. What I’ve often seen is that many black folks will just reject any notion that crime is a problem that is effecting black disproportionately. I think though since black people are the #1 victims of crime and disproportionately so, it is mainly in OUR OWN interest to address the matter and why it’s happening. Sometimes you will see black conservatives talking about black crime and many perceive them as pandering to white stereotypes about black people. But I think there are ways to address this without coming off as pandering to white fears. I want to see a return to more intact black families as there was in the past. Back when my mom was able to leave the door unlocked as a kid and nobody worried about a home invasion robbery.
This segues into another matter I was just thinking, and maybe it could post topic Abagond may want to take up: Has the post-segregation flight of the black middle class from the inner city exacerbated the problems of the black underclass? Is there a phenomena of “black flight” that’s every bit as real as “white flight”? Of upwardly mobile black people leaving black communities?
LikeLike
@Tulio:
Of course Blacks should be concerned about crime that hurts their neighborhoods. But to be quite frank, I don’t live in a Black neighborhood. I do care, however, that there are Blacks who are stuck in very negative, crime-ridden regions.
I am not responsible for the behavior of out of control Black folks though. What White racists want to do is lump all Blacks into one group and say that all of us are criminals (or criminally inclined).
I reject this. If Whites can commit crime, but not be lumped in with their fellow criminals, then Blacks should be treated or regarded no differently.
As far as black flight, yes there are Blacks such as myself who never grew up in the “inner city” and quite frankly have no desire to be in the “inner city”. Sorry. I like living in a safe neighborhood, where if I accidentally leave my door unlocked, nothing happens.
Why do you expect upwardly mobile Blacks to segregate themselves in unsafe neighborhoods when there are so many other options? We’re free to live wherever we want to and can afford to live.
LikeLike
“Thank you for you break down on the racist drug laws that people like Janice and other racist trolls support”
you Forget that the heavier penalties were originally demanded by black leaders who claimed that crack was associated with street violence in the black community and the white criminal-justice system did not care enough about its destructive consequences to make the penalties harsh. That was then, this is now. And now the villainy of the crack trade is transformed into yet another symbol of white unfairness by anti-white bigots like you.
“The school to jail pipeline is a laise faire way to restrict black and Hispanic opportunities and citizenship and transfer minority tax dollars into the hands of whites.” It is much more cost effective to round up these young men and women and lock them up under racially biased laws than actually seeking out the upper level distributors, banks and other businesses that profit from drug money or protecting the community members against the violence that plays out during drug transactions and beefs. The phenomenal increase in the black and Hispanic jail population has also resulted in a boom in jobs in law enforcement for whites outside these communities.”
Yes, it’s all a big conspiracy by the “man”. Sorry more bs by eschowoman. not blacks, but criminals are targeted for prosecution. once the black community realizes that discipline, responsibility, and two parent families are integral to a working healthy society then they will see their numbers in incarceration plummet.
Also, you left out the fact that many black schools in many states, have MORE dollars per capita than suburban schools and still do worse in every measure of educational achievement. In eschowoman’s sociology , there cannot be a problem that black folks inflict on themselves that is not ultimately the responsibility of whites. It is not whites fault that here are so many black criminals. If young black male commits crime, why should whites be held accountable? Why not their parents? Why not themselves? You’re supporting a racist, anti-white fantasy in which black people are no longer responsible for anything negative they do, even to themselves. This is what modern day America has become. If black children fail in school than White oppression explains their failure. Poor black academic performance cannot be seen as a failure of black families to educate their children, or of the black community to support educational values, which are often referred to as “thinking white.” Black failure can only be the result of white people.
You’re a divisive separatist who seeks to promote the ‘us against them’ mantra that continues to wall us off from one another; from communication; from healing. You carry a great talent for distributing blame. If black youth who are in jail were willing to work harder, act better, get educated, stay out of jail and parent more effectively, their problems would go away. Do these things and 99% of the time you will make more money and have a better life. Blaming the phantom ‘structural problems’ and sitting around listlessly and without goals- that’s how you keep yourself poor and dumb.
LikeLike
When it comes to violent crimes, blacks commit those crimes at much higher rate than other Americans.
‘Janice’, stick to secretly lusting after black men! Leave the cut and paste/plagiarism to the pros!
LikeLike
“Forget that the heavier penalties were originally demanded by black leaders who claimed that crack was associated with street violence in the black community and the white criminal-justice system did not care enough about its destructive consequences to make the penalties harsh.”
Please give me the names of these black leaders???
“If black youth who are in jail were willing to work harder, act better, get educated, stay out of jail and parent more effectively, their problems would go away.”
“Blaming the phantom ’structural problem sitting around listlessly and without goal show you keep yourself poor and dumb.”
You are saying blacks are lazy, uncivilized, dysfunctional parents and citizens, too ignorant to take advantage of the myriad of educational opportunities. But I am the one who “continues to wall us off from one another; from communication; from healing”
” you are a divisive separatist”
where exactly did it promote separatism?
This type of disavowal and racial ignorance is too common among whites who seek to preserve their privileged status. It stems from the same blacks-are-defective that supported slavery and Jim Crow.
LikeLike
I see many of you are interested in statistical research. I have put one of the most comprehensive link lists for hundreds of thousands of statistical sources and indicators on my blog: Statistics Reference List. And what I find most fascinating is how data can be visualised nowadays with the graphical computing power of modern PCs, as in manyof the dozens of examples in these Data Visualisation References. If you miss anything that I might be able to find for you or you yourself want to share a resource, please leave a comment.
LikeLike
Abagaond,
I have to take issue with the premise of your argument. One can make realistic comparisons regarding the criminality of various races within the US without a “just world doctrine” in effect. The world will never be just, so stating this just allows one to avoid the difficult topic of racial differences.
Another flaw in your argument relates to the number of blacks jailed on drug charges. Only about 35% of blacks convicted of serious crimes are there because of drug related charges.
While poverty, education, illegitimacy etc. are factors in the outsized black crime rate, they do not explain the bulk of the disparity in crime rates between the races. Consider that the crime rate (for both blacks and whites) during the Great Depression was lower than it is now, despite the fact that we are better off educationally and materially (I know the last point is debatable given the current circumstance).
Tulio makes a good point regarding rape that you did not address. Rape is a crime that is clearly not a product of the drug trade, nor is it a function of poverty. The police do not make rape sweeps of neighborhoods. In order for a particular man to be arrested for rape, a woman has to report the crime and give a description of the alleged perpetrator. According to victim surveys, Black men are 7 times more likely to be identified as a perpetrator of rape than are white men. As a black man, I don’t like this reality, but it is a reality. Note that I’m not talking about conviction rates, but accusation rates. Why are black men more likely to be accused, overwhelmingly by black women, of rape? And note that rape is supposedly and under reported crime.
LikeLike
Two of her victims were African-American:
http://www.uah.edu/biology/maria.html
http://www.uah.edu/biology/johson.html
I wonder if this rampage was racially motivated? If it was, there is no mention of it in the media. They claim that she did it due to not getting tenure. Apparently, her contract was not being renewed.
LikeLike
The shooting might very well have been racially motivated. She may have viewed the minorities on the faculty as Affirmative Action quotas who took tenure track positions that she viewed as rightfully hers. Who is to say?
LikeLike
abagond, you wrote:
“A good example is murder. In New York blacks are way more likely to murder someone than whites are. But does that mean blacks are more violent and savage than whites? Hardly.”
Does a high murder rate mean blacks are more violent than whites? You bet it does.
If a high murder rate is NOT a primary indicator of violence, what is? If a low murder rate is NOT an indicator of law abidingness, what is?
In 2009 there were 471 murders in NY City. The number of white victims and white perpetrators was close to ZERO. The number of asian victims and asian perpetrators was even closer to ZERO.
You wrote:
“It had little to do with the supposedly violent or savage nature of black people and everything to do with the drug trade.”
Drug trade participants all enter the business voluntarily and with the expectation of getting paid for their efforts. The sad fact that inner-city blacks are hopelessly delusional about the pointlessness and futility of their activities is a separate issue from the fact that fatal violence is a regular part of the business — which all participants know.
You wrote:
“In the process of getting drugs from South America to the good white people of North America blacks, as always, get stuck with the most dangerous and dirty work.”
First, as I am sure you know, street drugs come from all over the world. Not just South America. Second, sales take place all over the country, from inner-city locations to locker-rooms at the most exclusive country clubs in the nation. It’s been said that plenty of coke was snorted by White House staffers during the Clinton administration.
But almost all the violence in the drug trade is found where blacks and hispanics are the key players.
The last act of serious violence in my Brooklyn neighborhood was a drug-related murder committed by a buyer who decided he could save some money by stabbing his dealer instead of paying him. The dealer died, and then after reviewing surveillance video, the police identified the killer, who was good enough to commit a public-service suicide, thereby sparing the citizens of NY City the cost of his prosecution.
LikeLike
@RR
“While poverty, education, illegitimacy etc. are factors in the outsized black crime rate, they do not explain the bulk of the disparity in crime rates between the races.”
Apparently, illegitimacy can explain the bulk of it. I think that’s where anti-crime initiatives should focus.
LikeLike
The link between illegitimacy and crime may be the one topic on which Ann Coulter makes a good point.
LikeLike
Slappz were you on vacation?
LikeLike
@Herneith:
A pity it wasn’t longer. 😉
LikeLike
Hahahaha!!
LikeLike
It amazing that whites cling to the ideas that blacks are naturally criminal, imoral and violent. This ideology justifies imprisioning black youth as a public service, while whites who use and deal drugs are simply misguided and deserving of rehabitlitation, not imprisonment.White serial killers, spree killers, terrorists like the guy in Texas are just bad seeds, not representative of their race.
LikeLike
“This ideology justifies imprisioning black youth as a public service, while whites who use and deal drugs are simply misguided and deserving of rehabitlitation, not imprisonment.White serial killers, spree killers, terrorists like the guy in Texas are just bad seeds, not representative of their race.”
Instead of spending money on prevention, they prefer to build more prisons. Most of the drug distributors don’t even live in the community but use these young men as bullet fodder. They don’t care as long as they can get their product out there. What is your take on the rampant drug abuse Eshowoman? I find it bizarre that majority of drug abusers are white yet there aren’t many in prison comparatively speaking. Yes, they do tend to give them breaks and send them to rehab. But then again the drug laws are racially discriminative to start. Other laws like three strikes and your out in some states aren’t helpful either.
LikeLike
Does a high murder rate mean blacks are more violent than whites? You bet it does.
I’m not a betting person unless it’s Bingo or the lottery, thank you! By the way, the lottery jackpot is 50 million can you give me any numbers?
If a high murder rate is NOT a primary indicator of violence, what is?
Listening to Slappz carry on. That’s enough to drive anyone to murder!
If a low murder rate is NOT an indicator of law abidingness, what is?
Maybe they didn’t get caught! Look at Amy Bishop. She killed her brother years ago, got off and went on to kill three people.
Drug trade participants all enter the business voluntarily and with the expectation of getting paid for their efforts.
What, are they supposed to work for free? That is America after all.
The sad fact that inner-city blacks are hopelessly delusional about the pointlessness and futility of their activities is a separate issue from the fact that fatal violence is a regular part of the business — which all participants know.
Sad for whom? You write gleefully of these ‘facts’. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if you get all excited when doing so. But everyone has to have a hobby I suppose! Your’s is writing incessantly about how blacks are dumb, violent, bad at math, etc. The only blacks you seem to admire are entertainers and boxers with the rest of the athletes a close second!
First, as I am sure you know, street drugs come from all over the world
Why would he know that? Are all black people drug dealers to you?
Second, sales take place all over the country, from inner-city locations to locker-rooms at the most exclusive country clubs in the nation. .
Yes, white folk consume more drugs on a per ratio basis than anyone else.
It’s been said that plenty of coke was snorted by White House staffers during the Clinton administration
Hearsay, gossip and rumour.
the police identified the killer, who was good enough to commit a public-service suicide, thereby sparing the citizens of NY City the cost of his prosecution..
The poor fellow never got his day in court!
LikeLike
Stack, the nut who flew his plane into a building housing an IRS office, was a psycho killer with a grudge, but not a terrorist.
Why? Because he does not fit the definition of a terrorist.
What is the definition? A member of an organization that uses force or threats to intimidate, especially with respect to political policy.
Stack was a lone nut, who committed an attack on the IRS that led to some deaths, including his own. But he was not part of an anti-government organization attempting to change the policies and practices of the US government.
His potential to use force or threats died with him. Since he was not part of an anti-government organization, there is no one in line behind him to apply more force or threats in the future. Hence, he is not a terrorist.
Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, the Irish Republican Army and the KKK fulfill the definition of terrorist organizations. Hence, their members are rightly called terrorists.
LikeLike
Pffft. If Stack was named Abdul, Omar, or Mohammed, without a doubt, he would be considered a terrorist.
LikeLike
No slappz said: Because he does not fit the definition of a terrorist.
What is the definition? A member of an organization that uses force or threats to intimidate, especially with respect to political policy.
**************************
Who said a terrorist has to be a member of an organization?…you’re cherrypicking the defintion.
Terrorism:
“The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.”
Crashing a plane into a IRS building and potentially killing gov. workers even by one person does qualify as domestic terrorism but since that guy was white and his name wasn’t Mohammed, the media calls him merely “disgruntled”.
Another example of blatant DOUBLE STANDARD.
LikeLike
What is your take on the rampant drug abuse.
Black people take drugs for the same reason whites do: it feels good.
White addicts have a disease that can be handled with therapy and rehab. Black addicts are seen as intemparate and immoral and deserve to be jailed.
LikeLike
jade, you wrote:
“Terrorism:
“The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.”
You seem to lack an understanding of the definition you gave.
Terrorism — scaring people into changing the nature of their society — implies that at least some of those engaged in the coercive activities will live to see the desired changes. Terrorists believe their acts will change society in ways that lead to a better world — on their terms. Moreover, their ongoing efforts convey the message that if ONE terrorist dies, another will continue the fight.
On the other hand, when ONE person has a list of personal grievances against a range of self-described enemies, he is best described as a screwball.
Stack ranted against the Catholic Church. Last I checked, the Pope was living in Vatican City. Since the Catholic Church was one of Stack’s obsessions, he should have flown his plane into the Vatican. But he didn’t.
Stack ranted about Bush and Cheney. News flash. They are both retired and no longer part of our active government. If Stack was incensed by both of them, he could have flown his plane into the Bush residence in Texas. But he didn’t.
Stack ranted about capitalism. But he was a computer guy whose career was made possible by the forces of capitalism. Thus, his rant was irrational.
He seemed to have a grudge agains the IRS. But not because he felt he was overtaxed. In fact, based on his rants, it appears he wanted bigger and bigger government, which, as we all know, means higher and higher taxation.
Meanwhile, he was not connected to any tax-protest group, or white supremacist group, or any organization with a point of view on these issues. He was a lone angry guy who decided to go out with a bang. That’s all he was.
By killing himself, he ended his capacity to coerce and/or intimidate others into adopting his views. That is the opposite of a terrorist. He was a guy who couldn’t take it any longer.
By killing himself he made it clear he believed he could change nothing, except his own status. That is the opposite of a terrorist and the opposite of the goal of terrorism.
You wrote:
“Crashing a plane into a IRS building and potentially killing gov. workers even by one person does qualify as domestic terrorism but since that guy was white and his name wasn’t Mohammed, the media calls him merely “disgruntled”. ”
Nope. Every muslim who commits mass murder has lived a life under the influence of Islam — the religion that accepts no other. Every muslim who commits mass murder is part of a belief system that includes ONE BILLION people who are, to varying degrees, at odds with the US, the West, and, of course, full of hate for Israel.
As I said, if you want examples of white terrorists and white terrorist organizations, they are available. The Irish Republican Army, the KKK, the Basque Separatist group in Spain, Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda, the Taliban and a long list of other muslim organizations.
LikeLike
The majority of drug abusers are not white. Nobody knows what color the majority of drug abusers are.
Escowomen
“whites cling to the ideas that blacks are naturally criminal”
No, some whites feel that way, not all. Just like you cling to the idea that whites are naturally racist.
The myth of racial oppression, invoked to explain every social deficit of blacks, is an exercise in psychological denial. Crying racism deflects attention from the actual causes of the problems that afflict black communities.
Nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock. A child raised in a single-parent, female-headed household is six times more likely to be poor than a child of any color born into a two-parent household. Seventy percent of youth violence is committed by males from female-headed households, regardless of race.
Eschowoman perpetuates this myth of white oppression Because she reaps great moral and psychological rewards for doing so. Blaming others for the failures and offenses that are your own responsibility is a predictable human behavior.
Eschowoman, Instead of scapegoatting whites for all black folk problems, you should launch a campaign to promote marriage and family formation in the black community. You should issue a moral plea to the community to stigmatize fathers who abandon their children and parents who have more children than they can afford. You should campaign for a tripling of police forces in inner-city areas.
But to take these actions would require rejecting the bogus charge of white oppression. It would mean taking responsibility for your own community instead.
LikeLike
Eschowoman perpetuates this myth of white oppression Because she reaps great moral and psychological rewards for doing so.
What moral and psychological rewards? Be more specific.
The myth of racial oppression, invoked to explain every social deficit of blacks, is an exercise in psychological denial.
What myth of social oppression? Is this another exercise in cut and paste? This refrain is sounding all to familiar. If it is so, please elucidate your own views without resorting to such.
Nearly 70% of black children are born out of wedlock. A child raised in a single-parent, female-headed household is six times more likely to be poor than a child of any color born into a two-parent household. Seventy percent of youth violence is committed by males from female-headed households, regardless of race.
I’ve read this before on this blog. Another exercise in cut and paste?
Blaming others for the failures and offenses that are your own responsibility is a predictable human behavior.
How is one individual ‘responsible’ for the “failures” and offenses” of others? Another example of flipping the script. Why do you care?
Eschowoman, Instead of scapegoatting whites for all black folk problems, you should launch a campaign to promote marriage and family formation in the black community. You should issue a moral plea to the community to stigmatize fathers who abandon their children and parents who have more children than they can afford. You should campaign for a tripling of police forces in inner-city areas.
If you are so concerned, why aren’t you doing this? After all, when all is said and done, Blacks are Americans, hence this is an American problem. Also, how do you know what the this person is doing to help?
But to take these actions would require rejecting the bogus charge of white oppression.
No, to take these actions would require the willingness to help your fellow Americans. It is you who are the racist who is in denial. These supposed ills do not happen in a vacuum.
It would mean taking responsibility for your own community instead.
No, it would mean taking responsibility for you fellow American, if this is how you truly feel. It baffles my mind that you call people ‘racist’, yet go on a diatribe about blacks this, blacks that. At no time have you expressed any empathy for blacks,(I am presuming you’re American), who like you are fellow Americans, but view them as ‘other’. Like it or not you are all American and as such should be viewed accordingly. I think you are just a sh$t stirring Troll who doesn’t have an original thought in your head.
LikeLike
uh, aren’t you guilty of profiling white people with that statement?
LikeLike
To Jalylah
The majority of drug abusers are not white. Nobody knows what color the majority of drug abusers are.
The majority of people in the US are White. (depending upon how you divide people up between 70% to 80%..) I don’t think it’s a stretch that the majority (which would be more than 50%) of drug abusers are White. Although the rate of drug abuse in the White community could conceivably be less than other communities.
But when crime statistics are tossed around .. people believe that are large portion of arrests are for possession. Well yes and no… generally the charges are for possession with intent to distribute. Prosecutors and courts take a very different view about drug dealing than drug users.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and there is drug dealing among all ethnic and racial groups. That said, for some reason from my observations, Black drug dealers seem to much more in the public view than White, Latino, or Asian dealers. The latter (more so for Whites and Asians..) conduct almost all of their drugs deals out of sight of neighbors the police etc. This makes detection and enforcement much more difficult. I can name several spots, just in Oakland where there is major public (and very obvious) drug dealing going on. Detecting and busting these guys is very easy. Get a guy on camera leaning into a car and observer him exchanging something with a passenger. Boom, it looks like dealing. Now grab the guy, if he has multiple packets of crack then he can easily be nailed for possession with intent to distribute. These is pretty active Meth use among Whites in the Bay Area but the dealing is almost always indoors and these guys are hyper paranoid. (and flat out crazy if they are using the product..) The police detest Meth dealers but since they have a much lower public posture they are much harder to catch.
LikeLike
If that isn’t what a terrorist is then I don’t know what is. And instead of branding him a terrorist..
Joe Stack was labeled a terrorist by two different Congressional representatives of the area around Austin, Texas (where the attack occurred…)
“”When you fly an airplane into a federal building to kill people, that’s how you define terrorism,” said Rep. Michael McCaul, a Texas Republican whose district includes Austin. “It sounds like it to me.”
“This was a cowardly act of domestic terrorism,” he said, and Stack’s rant “reflects the steadily increasing flow of ‘the government is out to get me’ paranoia.”
“Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Austin)”
How would you define or differentiate a terrorist act from a mere criminal act..?
LikeLike
Uncle Milton,
Have you ever heard of the visibility hypothesis? The idea is that Blacks are more “visible” (especially to White authority figures) in a community, so their bad behavior stands out. The original theory comes out of the mental health fields wrt involuntary coercion rates, but I think it can be applied elsewhere.
LikeLike
To Jasmin:
Have you ever heard of the visibility hypothesis? The idea is that Blacks are more “visible” (especially to White authority figures) in a community, so their bad behavior stands out.
I am going off my own experiences… and to make it plain. I was drug dealer at one time… Marijuana… but in quantities that were a felony at the time. I was very very cautious about who I dealt with… I had to get to know someone.. and I was generally very cautious when someone would call me up and say they had a friend who wanted something. This was a classic way to nail someone, bust a little guy and go up the food chain. I never dealt on the street and I sported a haircut and clothing that was considered quite conservative at the time.
The guys I see in my neighborhood (I own a duplex in West Oakland..) are obvious and are easily nabbed. When I have watched them I have thought “Damn you’re bold.. and a fool.. or you don’t mind the idea of prison…” if they are under 18.. then they can probably get away with a slap on wrist (well in Oakland I know that’s true..) Over 18 it is a different story.. get prepared for the revolving door of Prison, Parole, Probation and back again. Lather, rinse and repeat. I stopped all of my activities when I was 21… I decided the risk had become too high. The paranoid survive and tend to stay out of prison. Granted Whites at venues such as raves and Grateful Dead concerts (when Jerry Garcia was still alive..) have been known to deal fairly openly but after law enforcement becomes aware of such activity and nabs a few people the dealers tend to throttle back markedly on behavior that is easy to monitor.
LikeLike
Even though this is the most resent one made, I doubt there is much difference between then and now. Anyway:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_43.html
For those who have trouble analyzing this table it shows that 70% of all crimes committed in the U.S. were done by (drumroll) WHITES!
Yet, I’m sure there’s some yutts somewhere that would deny this, make up statistics, or borrow stats from a white supermacist site.
LikeLike
@ Bay Area Guy:
The table is about “Arrests by Race”. Hispanic is no more a race than “Californian” or “English-speaking”.
@ Will:
Thank you! But please note, your table is not of CRIMES committed but of ARRESTS made. The police do not catch everyone or catch the right people, many crimes are underreported and the police are more likely to arrest blacks than whites all other things being equal. Blacks are more likely to be stopped by the police and when stopped, searched for weapons.
LikeLike
Abagond.
That’s true, but still, I believe that since whites are the huge majority of the population, then they are the majority of those committing crimes arrested or otherwise. Also, when you think about the “war on drugs” which is very racist, there would be more whites in arrested and convicted.
To kind of sidetrack a bit:
Like you wrote, there is a myth that blacks commit the most crimes in the nation, which is something many whites believe thanks, in part, to the news that loves to report crimes by minorities. The implicit message whenever we hear or read about a crime committed is that who committed that crime is guilty. We never ask ourselves if the person is innocent or not.
Nevertheless, like you wrote in another entry, the views differ depending on race. To most whites blacks commit whatever crime because it’s their nature, they’re inherently evil. To most whites, whites commit whatever crime because of their troubled upbringing, psychological factors, etc. The same is never considered when blacks are accused, tried and convicted, and even if they are mentioned, people will STILL consider them excuses.
LikeLike
Oh yea, even if the table shows arrests made, which it does, America’s “justice” system is still geared in favor of whites, especially white youth.
LikeLike
will,
It seems you need some guidance before you can understand the meaning of the numbers in the file you linked.
Even if we accept the white and black figures at face value, it remains painfully obvious that blacks — 12% of the population — commit crimes at far far higher rates than whites — 80% of the population.
Using your numbers, 70% of crime is committed by whites who account for 80% of the population. But blacks commit 30% of the crime while accounting for only 12% of the population. Looks bad for blacks. However, things get worse when you account for hispanics.
Anyway, here in NY City in 2009 there were 471 murders. Blacks and hispanics accounted for 98% of the perpetrators and victims. They also committed 98% of all non-fatal shootings.
Moreover, in NY City in 2009, blacks committed 70% of all robberies. But blacks are 25% of the NY City population.
LikeLike
Bay Area Guy
Both black and whites have hispanics counted in their results according to skin tone. Light-skinned hispanics are counted as white while dark-skinned hispanics are counted as black. According to data, hispanics account for about 10%. So whites are still the overwhelming majority of those committing crimes.
LikeLike
To Will:
According to data, hispanics account for about 10%. So whites are still the overwhelming majority of those committing crimes.
Which data Will? Hispanics now make up 15% of the US population. I have read the Hispanic crime rate is roughly three times the White non-Hispanic crime rate.
The FBI considers the following to be White:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/ravelo_e.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/saenz_jl.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/gerena.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/flores_a.htm
Interestingly the city of Los Angeles no longer seems to be listing their perps by race:
http://www.lapdonline.org/top_ten_most_wanted
For the purposes of preferential hiring and admission to Universities they would be considered Hispanic. Generally Hispanics are referred to as people of color. Yes I know there are people labeled as Hispanics but for all intents and purposes they are White but they are in the distinct minority… probably around 5% to 10%.
LikeLike
Uncle Milton, where did you read that hispanic crime rate is roughly three times the white non-hispanic crime rate?
Also, the examples you listed kinda helps prove the argument about the listing of hispanics being classified as white.
http://www.bop.gov/about/facts.jsp
LikeLike
Uncle Milton, where did you read that hispanic crime rate is roughly three times the white non-hispanic crime rate?
http://www.bop.gov/about/facts.jsp
Not trying to be contentious but I am not sure what are you trying to show me with the link above..? It should be noted that this is just for Federal prisons (which you may have known..), which would have more illegal aliens in custody, possibly skewing the numbers towards Hispanics.
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=104
Apparently however, native born and non-native but legal Hispanics have higher rates of crime than illegal aliens (or undocumented immigrants if you prefer..) likely because the undocumented know that if they are caught committing a crime they stand a good chance of deportation. (There are some notable exceptions such as the city of San Francisco..)
On a positive note acts of violent crime are decreasing for all races and have decreased even more markedly for Black Americans since the mid-90s.
There has been an almost 70% drop in Black crime victims since the mid 90s and a 65% drop for White crime victims:
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/race.cfm
(I took 1994 and 2007 as my data points..)
LikeLike
Uncle Milton, where did you read that hispanic crime rate is roughly three times the white non-hispanic crime rate?
Ok found what I was talking about although I will acknowledge this is incarceration rates and not crime rates which we would have to infer. The rate of incarceration rate for Hispanics males is 2.46 times the rate of incarceration of non-Hispanic White males. So somewhat less than my figure of 3x. The difference in incarceration between non-Hispanic White women and Hispanic women is fairly small and could be easily explained away by age factors (the average Hispanic in the US is 27 (closer to prime crime years) and the average non-Hispanic White is 40 (getting old to be a bad ass…) ) and socioeconomic factors. These racial, age and socio-economic factors could also explain some of Hispanic, Black and White differences:
I hope the formatting works:
Rate of incarceration per 100,00
Male Female
Total 952 62 62
White 487 50 50
Black 3,161 149 149
Hispanic 1,200 75 74
My guess the majority of women in prison are there for drug related crime. (Well I am pretty sure I read that somewhere..)
See page 2 table 2:
Click to access p08.pdf
LikeLike
I’m confused!
There is SMART and there is STUPID!
No matter what race you come from if you are taught the facts of life correctly in your home your children will become
great adults. As a man from a darker diaspora, I don’t know
if there is a genocide to get rid of us or is The lord saying,
“Ya know, When I created different races I thought it would be interesting for people to explore and learn about new horizons in life but it seems we have a big problem!
Everyone thinks their race is better so much they have to start destroying each other! So you know what I’m gonna do slowly start dismantling the races! Yesterday you were about saving you blood line, Now who cares. The darker diaspora can only blame itself because we are not sticking together and get brainwashed into thinking it’s alright to
be an imaginary character! I praise the ones who got a break in life but do you think they want to help you make
it in this ME ME ME time?
Is there a ghost out there trying to disperse us slowly
by putting drugs in our midst though Hip Hop?
Get That Money, BOOTYlishus! Gansta! And Those Porno
Galz The ones that you would marry….(Did you ever see what they say to your Sister’s in Porn?) do you know what they call you? And what kills me you smile and like it and mess it up for a true woman of a Ebony Essence to recognized in society as the Queens they were bought up to be! And Everybody lost the level of manners and respect.
I was taught to say Good morning etc. Try to do that today!
And men don’t have that I’ll kill for my daughter anymore!
I would head slap my daughter if she would parade her body on the internet! Face i don’t care but do you need a man that bad you have to show your goodies to everyone
then wonder why He only wants you for one thing?
Then other races that copy our So called gangsta style Speak to you in you Hip Hop lingo and you drop you drop your draws give them babies then they leave you like K Fed! And don’t think you students are any better…
Frat party videos….Your going to be somebody’s mother some day! I know I to late for a strong BWOE but I feel I’m to old… and I’m sorry because I contributed to this stupidity! But I’m one to tell you education is the key…1
LikeLike
^, Lol interesting.
LikeLike
Who are you? I love this counterpropaganda?
LikeLike
@Abagond
You say that these black communities are more susceptible to violent drug-related crime bc of higher rates of unemployment and lower income. I agree with that. However, wouldn’t there be less unemployment/higher incomes if more people in those communities had high school diplomas and college degrees?
No doubt there is racism in the criminal justice system, but I think it is disingenuous to conclude it is the primary cause of racial disparity. I mean, could you just imagine someone coming up with excuses for why rich white CEOs commit corporate crimes? Ppl would call them insane for even suggesting they were without fault.
Instead of calling blacks malicious for violent crime,whites evil for corporate crime, or making up exuses, cant we just take race out of the equation and blame the individual for their wrong doing?
LikeLike
The Cynic:
1. The racism in the criminal justice system was left pretty much untouched by the civil rights reforms of the 1960s and it only got worse in the 1980s and 1990s with the so-called war on drugs. Racial profiling is LEGAL. The courts have made their own racism nearly impossible to challenge.
2. In my experience (mainly in New York and its suburbs), police protection in black neighbourhoods, particularly poor ones, is way worse than in white ones. For example, I have been frequently stopped or closely watched in white neighbourhoods, especially at night, but NEVER, not even ONCE in a black or mixed one, even though I have lived in all sort of neighbourhoods, black, white and mixed, and even though I remain the same supposedly suspicious character that requires so much police attention.
3. Of course people are responsible for their actions. I never said murderers should walk free or something. But when people know they can get away with something they are more likely to do it. Simple as that.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Nowhere in my comment did I say there was no racism in the criminal justice system. All I said was that it more than likely isn’t the primary reason behind the racial disparity in VIOLENT drug-related crime. That pretty much means that if all racism ended tomorrow, you would still see more black people committing violent crimes in those poor areas. Why? Check the initial paragraph of my first comment on this thread.
LikeLike
“Exactly I know so much of that, whites will complain that blacks need to “pul themselves up by the bootstraps” but when they arrange something like that say a company that elp supports black owned buissness then whites cry out “oh if we had a all white so and so that would be racist” blah blah blah” Classic, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
LikeLike
Fewer and fewer Americans are buying into the argument that “the black community cannot be held respondsible, all ills are due to white rascism” line. Black communities have fewer jobs because they have been infested with gangs, drugs, and crime. Blacks cannot get decent jobs becuase they cannot read, write or communicate. Leeching off social programs are considered a healthy way to make a living. Aspiring to be an “OG” is a common life goal and all community heroes are corrupt, thugs, or loud mouth racial instigators. The black community has worked very hard for their own plight, now it’s time to own it. I no longer believe the “poor little o’ me” story anymore. Look at the way you behave , what you produce, and what you value. This is the reason for disdain. The black community IS respondsible.
LikeLike
James, other than your spelling ability, I agree with everything you you’ve written.
But, if black people are NOT dysfunctional, how are you going to be able to mistreat and abuse them on the basis of color?
White people might get so upset they start shooting each other?
Do you really wanna go there?
LikeLike
Thwack,
Just curious..
What percentage of the Black Community in the US do you believe is dysfunctional?
What percentage of the Asian (south and east) Community, in your opinion, is dysfunctional?
Latino?
Native?
African?
White?
LikeLike
^^^^^^^^
LikeLike
@Just me
I will give you a virtual high five if you can actually get a straight answer out of him. No one seems to be able to.
LikeLike
First JM, you must accept there is no such thing as “the black community.”
Don’t believe it?
Read what Sharinalr wrote after you.
LikeLike
I’m not talking in terms of COMM-UNION or “politically” or “spiritually,” Thwack… I know well the percieved lack of these things. I’m talking about just plain ol demographics.
You know, the branch of sociology that studies the characteristics of human populations.
Your comment stated in part, “…if black people are NOT dysfunctional…” caused me to wonder what you thought about about the “dysfunction” percentage numbers of blacks – and other segments/clusters of the US population.
LikeLike
In most cases, unemployment and low income will cause crime to rise.
Most crimes committed by black people are the ones that make the six o’clock news, which are mostly street crimes, e.g., weed/crack cocaine selling, gang-related homicide or grand theft auto. Crimes like shoplifting (petty theft or larceny) are quite even among ethnic groups.
The “major league” crimes are crimes mostly committed by people who don’t look like a cornrow-haired Day-Day or Jay Rock. These crimes are White collar (crimes), Racketeering, Money Laundering, Embezzlement, Organized (crimes), Security Fraud, Insider Trading (crimes), Insurance Fraud, Computer Fraud, Computer Hacking, Cyber (crimes), Investment Schemes (crimes), Environmental Schemes (crimes), Import and export (crimes), Crimes against animals (e.g., beastiality, illegal game, etc.), and Federal Civil Rights Violations (e.g., hate crimes, Color of Law/Police Misconduct, etc.).
To know what each crime is, click on the link (below):
http://www.sg-llp.com/federal-resources-crimes-php
LikeLike
A link error. Click on:
http://www.sq-llp.com/federal-resources-crimes.php
LikeLike
There’s another CRIME usually administered by only one ethnic group (or race). The crime is the delivery of vaccines. I’m a Black person who doesn’t trust White Supremacy as far as I can throw a rock! The system can’t ever be given the benefit of the doubt, ever.
One must always be in a state of VERY HIGH VIGILANCE where white supremacy is concerned… as demonstrated here:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a-mass-sterilization-exercise-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-u
This is the same system (white supremacy) that gives voice to the notion that Ebola originated in Africa… yeah right!
LikeLike
@ Just Me
Thank you for the link. I will read it once I get some time aside for myself. I did read the first part and this is just sad.
LikeLike
Unfortunately, black crime gets mainstream media attention and is constantly played up by people, like Jared Taylor and Bill O’Reilly. But white crime is often overlooked or played down by mainstream media and, of course, people, like Taylor and O’Reilly. Is this done, deliberately? I believe it is.
How often does the mainstream media bombard us with white crime?
Over the last couple of years I have collected tons of articles of crimes committed by everyday white people. First, let’s view some of the pictures of white criminals and then let’s click on the links to white crime.
Pictures of white criminals:
White-collar criminal (male)
White-collar criminal (female)
Law-breaking “streetwalker”
http://3.images.spike.com/images/shows/cops/bikini2.jpg?quality=0.91
Law-breaking “thugs” (aka college students)
Thrift store shoplifters (petty theft criminals)
Two law-breaking teenage “streetwalkers”
Female shoplifter (grand theft criminal)
Law-breaking “college rats” (aka college sorority sisters)
Law-breaking “thug” (suburban rebel)
Law-breaking pedophile
Links to white crime:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/father-son-and-daughter-arrested-in-bank-robberies/
How often do you hear or read about a black family (i.e. parent(s) and children) robbing banks or stores together?
http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/plattsburg/pair-caught-stealing-from-grocery-store/27413568
http://www.wbrz.com/news/mother-father-arrested-in-front-of-children/
http://www.indiatvnews.com/crime/news/inside-america-two-female-prisons-3869.html
http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2012/11/stephanie-fletcher-teacher-charged-with.html
According to data, many minors under the age of consent are victims of white female schoolteachers. This is a growing and disturbing issue in our country. Maybe someday Bill O’Reilly will make ‘statutory rape in America’s schools’ a hot topic on The O’Reilly Factor.
http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2013/05/stephanie-mikles-school-behavioral.html
http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2013/02/kara-vandereyk-jailed-after-having-sex.html
http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2012/12/brittany-sonnier-charged-with-having.html
Black people may be known for doing crazy things but bestiality is definitely NOT one of them.
LikeLike
If any commenter wants more links to ‘white crime’ I’ll be more than delighted to give them to you.
LikeLike
@Gregoire
The problem with the meme is it is derived from the idea that in 2013 the population was 12% not the 13% that is placed at the top. Granted the population was 13% for those who identified solely as AA, but was 15.2% for those who identified in more than one way. A distinction that would not be made in crime stats. Making your meme misleading, considering how easily one can apply any population amount to it.
Quoted:
Blacks commit 53% of all murder, despite being only 12% of the population.
Despite making up less than 7% of the US population, and only 12% of the male population, black males commit 1 in every 3 rapes.
Blacks commit 56% of all robbery, despite being only 12% of the population. Source:
African Americans commit 1 in 3 aggravated assaults, despite being only 12% of the population.
African Americans commit 41% of all prostitution offenses, despite being only 12% of the population.
African Americans commit 1 in 3 burglaries, arson crimes, fraud crimes and offenses against family/children, despite being only 12% of the population. Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
http://pastebin.com/fxs8WD2Z
“It can’t be racism. Think hard.”—Actually it can. High arrest record are not proof or evidence that racism was not involved. The tactic of targeting black people is a well documented one. Cops generally take that route because it is generally easier and for a variety of reasons.
The showing of high crime rates only points to that method working.
LikeLike
@Fan …
I don’t put much stock in them either. I am sure it serves a purpose, but what purpose can it serve when there are departments that do not report.
LikeLike
” I am sure it serves a purpose, but what purpose can it serve when there are departments that do not report.”
.
Sharinalr
FBI stats definitely serves a purpose.
..delete, deceive, deny, deflect, debase, defame, decoy, defraud, deform… and that’s just some of the words that begin with – d.
There’s 25 other letters in the alphabet we can look at to see what other purposes these FBI stats serve.
The word that best describes FBI stats (imo) begins with the letter L.
L-I-E-S
LikeLike
i’m a excon
LikeLike
@Fan …
Agreed.
LikeLike
At Gregoire.. I’m just going to leave this for you here.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/03/03/9-facts-white-white-crime-far-exceeds-black-black-crime-media-conceals/2/
“Statistics are cut-and-dry, and they do not lie. According to the FBI’s most recent homicide numbers available, from 2011, a staggering 83 percent of white murder victims were killed by fellow Caucasians. (Of murders committed by Blacks, only 14 percent were of whites.) And because whites are the majority in the country — there are six times as many whites as there are Blacks — that means they commit the most murders. This could be viewed as startling to many, especially whites, because hardly ever is “white-on-white” crime dissected in the media. As an example, Time magazine’s Joe Klein wrote an entire column recently on crime, focusing on the Black community and calling it a “social disaster.” But there was no mention that whites overwhelmingly are killed by whites, which was typical of media outlets.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
This article (below) is for those who believe in the validity of the FBI’s so-called Crime Statistics. What follows below, I’m certain, is only the tip of the iceberg!
White people love to talk about the “high Black crime rate” while refusing to acknowledge (or see) the inherent racism built into the system that manufactures these “FBI statistics.” The confirmation bias/delusion is so overwhelming that even when whites are presented with factual evidence regarding the dishonesty of compiled stats they’ll seek any possible way to deny, deflect, deceive, debate, defend … their delusion. Cops have been doing this sort of thing for years, bit it’s only recently that – OFFICIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT – is confirming what some of us have always known.
The following short piece should fit nicely in the Broken Records department.
.
“The Alabama Justice Project has obtained documents that reveal a Dothan Police Department’s Internal Affairs investigation was covered up by the district attorney. A group of up to a dozen police officers on a specialized narcotics team were found to have planted drugs and weapons on young black men for years. They were supervised at the time by Lt. Steve Parrish, current Dothan Police Chief, and Sgt. Andy Hughes, current Director of Homeland Security for the State of Alabama. All of the officers reportedly were members of a Neoconfederate organization that the Southern Poverty Law Center labels “racial extremists.” The group has advocated for blacks to return to Africa, published that the civil rights movement is really a Jewish conspiracy, and that blacks have lower IQ’s . Both Parrish and Hughes held leadership positions in the group and are pictured above holding a confederate battle flag at one of the club’s secret meetings.
The documents shared reveal that the internal affairs investigation was covered up to protect the aforementioned officers’ law enforcement careers and keep them from being criminally prosecuted.
Several long term Dothan law enforcement officers, all part of an original group that initiated the investigation, believe the public has a right to know that the Dothan Police Department, and District Attorney Doug Valeska, targeted young black men by planting drugs and weapons on them over a decade. Most of the young men were prosecuted, many sentenced to prison, and some are still in prison. Many of the officers involved were subsequently promoted and are in leadership positions in law enforcement.”
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Alabama%3A_Dothan_Police_Planted_Drugs_on_Young_Black_Men_For_Years%2C_DA_Complicit/47594/0/38/38/Y/M.html
LikeLike
In the commentary section of a YouTube video a commenter who goes by the troll name ‘takfam07’ stated: ” People only view blacks as a ‘threat’ in two ways: 1) violent street crime; 2) bringing down civilizational standards down wherever they exist in large numbers.” He also stated: “Blacks are 13 percent of the total population in America, but are responsible for over half of America’s violent crime.”
As a Black person, I replied to takfam07’s rhetorical comment. In my replying comment, I told takfam07 that ‘black-on-black crime’ is mostly heightened by economic deprivation. If we were to assess black-on-black crime it would take us to economics. Black people have always been a marginalized group – from the slave plantation to the present day in which we live in. Socioeconomically, Black people have been centralized in areas that are deprived of wealth and resources. Any economist or realist would tell you – where there is poverty, there is crime (and vice versa). In fact, poverty fosters criminal behavior and activities. Just listen to NWA’s 1988 rap song titled “Criminal Behavior.” Jared Taylor, Colin Flaherty and other bubble-minded people will always give us propagated stats of crime by race, but NEVER do these propagandists give us stats of crime by income level. There is more crime committed by Whites with socioeconomic ills ( http://www.phoenixhouse.org/news-and-views/our-perspectives/addiction-in-appalachia/ ) ( http://athomesense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/screen-shot-2013-05-30-at-12.21.00-pm.png ) than Whites in Hermosa or Manhattan Beach, California (http://www.areavibes.com/hermosa+beach-ca/crime/ ). The same goes for Asian-Americans. There are more crime committed by Asian-Americans with socioeconomic ills ( http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-Southeast-Asia-to-a-violent-East-Bay-Gang-2749878.php ) ( http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2015/09/26/3705261/asian-american-poverty ) than Asian-Americans in Torrance or Alhambra, California. And, yes, the same goes for African-Americans. There is more crime committed by Blacks with socioeconomic ills ( http://homicide.latimes.com/post/westmont-homicides/ ) than Blacks in Ladera Heights or View Park-Windsor Hills, California ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_Park-Windsor_Hills,_California ) ( http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-adv-view-park-20150719-story.html )
Journalist Auset Marian Lewis puts it like this: “Crime and violence in poor neighborhoods has nothing to do with race. It has to do with poverty. Most black people who have a piece of the American pie are not shooting each other or anybody else. The ‘black-on-black crime’ mantra is racist on its face because blacks are the only people burdened with this label.” https://indyreader.org/content/black-black-crime-really
“Blacks are 13 percent of the total population in America, but are responsible for over half of America’s violent crime” is a script that every anti-Black racist have memorized pretty well. Unfortunately, takfam07 can’t think outside of the box and he definitely finds it very difficult to believe that poverty is most likely the cause of violent crime in America.
There are studies that show this and there are no groups poorer than Blacks in America. According to the 2013 U.S. Census report, 27 percent of Blacks are at or below the poverty line and 9.9 percent of Whites are at or below the poverty line. The 9.9 percent works out to be roughly 20 million people. So even though the percentage for Whites is lower there are nearly twice as many poor Whites as poor Blacks. When you control poverty the percentage of crime falls right in line with the percentage of the total impoverished population. Blacks make up 22% of the total impoverished people in America and commit 27% of all crime. Whites make up roughly 40% of the total impoverished population and commit 70% of all crime. The stats show a pretty defined link between poverty and crime in America. And, yes, the criminal lifestyle of John Dillenger, Lester Gillis aka Babyface Nelson, Charles “Pretty Boy” Floyd, Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow can attest that poverty and crime are definitely linked.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@Michael Cooper
I appreciated the details you included.
How do we account for the criminality of well educated, high income people who crashed the economy with massive mortgage fraud?
How do we account for the criminality of affluent people who poisoned an American city (Flint, MI) without a shred of remorse?
How do we account for the criminality of well-heeled people who sit in corporate suites directing murder and mayhem against people who just happen to be living on lands they covet that are rich in minerals, oil, water or timber?
LikeLiked by 2 people
@ Afrofem
The facts don’t lie. Well said.
LikeLike
@ Afrofem
Thank you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Michael Cooper
I wasn’t questioning your extensive research or your conclusions. I think there is a link between poverty and crime. I learned a lot from your comment. Thank you for sharing that information.
Yet, street crime and criminalized behaviors (like tagging buildings with graffiti or vagrancy, etc.) most associated with low income Black people are not the only types of criminal behaviors. Nor are various forms of “blue collar” crime the most costly to society.
It seems we have all been trained to think of crime in very narrow ways. Perhaps it is time we (myself included) expand our definition and understanding of who commits crime, why various sectors commit crime and what the social costs of all types of crime really are.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Michael Cooper
Ah! I found other comments of yours upstream that covered some of the questions I posed in my last comment. This is one example:
You are way ahead of me. Thanks.
LikeLike
@ Afrofem
A good question would be what is the definition crime ?
The Marrium-Webster states this:
1. An act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law
2. A grave offense especially against morality
3. Criminal activity
4. Something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful
crimeless play \-ləs\ adjective
The definition seems somewhat vague that can include anything that breaks “the law”.
For me crime would be anything that is associated with force or violence. Reform in the justice system needs to include the decriminalization of consensual and non violent crimes.
It’s interesting that the definition of crime is tied to an offense against morality. My question would be what is more immoral ? The Incarceration of people for non violent “crimes” or the act of incarceration against people for non violent offenses ?
LikeLike
Another point that racists ignore is that most cop killers are white. In 2015 more the 70% of the police shot were gunned down by white people.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-cops-killed-white-men-conservatives-silent-article-1.2632965
LikeLiked by 1 person
michaeljonbarker,
I read that article last night.
LikeLike
Sometimes the law IS the crime.
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
I’m sure that the definitions of crime are fluid and varied. At the heart of every crime large or small is one constant: harm.
That harm can be forceful and violent or furtive and passive.
➸ A bookkeeper embezzling funds is not violent, but embezzlement does a great deal of harm to your business.
➸ A restaurant owner stealing tips or refusing to pay wages owed to workers is not forceful but it harms workers and their families.
➸ A banker who knowingly opens and maintains an account for a heroin or cocaine “entrepreneur” is aiding and abetting the harm the drug “entrepreneur” does to entire communities.
➸ A factory owner or farmer who dumps toxic waste into rivers harms everyone (and everything) in the river’s ecosystem.
➸ A legislator helps to pass unjust laws that harm whole groups of people for the purpose of control, ambition or garnering votes in the future.
All of those are crimes to me. Physical violence or force need not be present for great harm to occur.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So stop selling drugs and ruining communities. Drug trade is savage. What moron wrote this? You just proved everybody’s point…
LikeLike
@Troy
“…stop selling drugs and ruining communities. Drug trade is savage.”
Euro-Americans buy, sell and use 80 percent of all drugs in the US. When will Euro-Americans stop selling drugs and ruining their communities?
After all “[the] drug trade is savage”.
LikeLike
@Troy:
I guess you haven’t heard or read of the heroin and opiates derived epidemic plaguing the middle to upper-class white communities eh?
http://www.salon.com/2015/11/04/sympathy_is_for_white_people_the_60_minutes_segment_that_highlights_americas_startling_double_standard_on_addiction/
https://www.thefix.com/heroin-killing-white-people
Shut the fkuc up!
LikeLike
@Troy:
no one is safe, not even the white man!
LikeLike
@Herneith
LOL!
It’s amazing that any White person would come here spouting gibberish about drugs. White Americans are in the grip of not one, not two, but three major drug epidemics: heroin, opiates and methamphetamines.
I haven’t started the conversation about massive cocaine, alcohol, tobacco addictions in the European descent community.
Just because the White owned media is making soft, cooing noises about “understanding the poor White addicts” doesn’t mean that the problem is minor. The levels of drug related dysfunction easily rivals or exceeds the crack epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s.
LikeLike
https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter
LikeLike
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-analyzed-the-compas-recidivism-algorithm
LikeLike
Wow glad to know my cocaine addiction is passe. I dont think it got the memo.
LikeLike