Most of these numbers are from Henry Louis Gates, Jr’s “In Search of Our Roots” (2009):
The Transatlantic Slave Trade: From 1501 to 1867 there were 12.5 million Africans who were sent across the Atlantic to become slaves. Of these 1.8 million never made it: they died in the Middle Passage. Africans were brought in about 52,000 shipments. If you work out the averages, that comes to one ship arriving every two to three days for 366 years, each ship bringing on average 203 Africans, not counting the 36 who died on the way.
Amazingly, we still have the records of two-thirds of those shipments. They are in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database (TAST).
Of those who came to the United States of America:
Only 4% or 455,000 came to America: the big money was in sugar in the Caribbean and Brazil, not in tobacco or cotton in North America. Despite that slow start, America now has more blacks than any other country in the Americas except Brazil. It has about a fourth of all blacks who now live in the Western Atlantic. (I am using the American meaning of the word “black” which counts mixed people too.)
That 455,000 grew to 4 million by the time the slaves were freed in 1865 and now to 90% of the nearly 40 million blacks now in America (the other 10% are due to blacks coming to America since 1900, mainly from the Caribbean) as well as 10% of the 200 million whites (who are part black but pass for white).
According to government numbers, one American in eight is black.
When they came:
- 1600s: 4%
- 1700s: 76%
- 1800s; 20%
Most were in America by 1776 when the Declaration of Independence was signed.
Where they came from:
- 74.8%: West Africa (Guinea Coast)
- 23.7%: Senegal, Gambia
- 11.5%: Sierra Leone
- 5.6%: Liberia, Ivory Coast
- 14.1%: Ghana
- 19.9%: Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon
- 23.0%: Angola, Congo
- 2.2%: Mozambique
Most of those places in West Africa later became part of the British Empire.
Where they live now:
- 47% live in the Black Belt (states from New York City to New Orleans by way of Atlanta. The heart of it are those purple counties in the map above)
- 30% live in the Northern Belt (states from New York City to Chicago by way of Detroit)
Together they come to 65% of Black America (not 77% because New Jersey and New York states belong to both).
If you throw in Texas, California and Florida, you have 85% of all blacks.
From 1910 to 1970 about 6.6 million blacks moved from the South to the North and California.
Ancestry:
According to AncestrybyDNA, a company that does DNA ancestry tests, the average for Black Americans is:
- 14.3% European
- 79.6% sub-Saharan African
- 2.8% Asian
- 3.3% indigenous American
One study found that blacks are 18.5% white on average, another said it is 15%. Here is how Gates puts it:
- 42% are 0.0% to 12.5% white
- 38% are 12.5% to 25.0% white
- 19% are 12.5% to 50.0% white
- Less than 1% are 50% white or more
So, despite Halle Berry, Barack Obama and Alicia Keys, blacks with a white parent are rare. After all, that 1% counts not just those with a white parent but even those with two black parents.
– Abagond, 2010, 2016.
See also:
- AncestrybyDNA’s ancestry table
- Guinea Coast
- Afro-Latinos – the other 75% of the black Western Atlantic
- One Drop Rule
Speaking of demographic, how many African-Americans are there today? (When I say “African American”, I mean “black American citizen”) About 20%? For some reason, I always thought it was much more, around 40% of American population. I don’t know why I thought USA was almost 50-50 divided (black and white), with only a little percent of other races.
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Man, look at that purple belt in the south and compare it to the last three presidential election results and then tell me there’s one man, one vote in the U.S.
Ana brought this up on another topic, but it needs to be repeated.
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@Lynette
Thanks for the info!
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For some reason- and I really have to think why– I always thought there were more black people in the US. I didn’t understand why African-Americans were considered “minority”.
@ Abagond
* Less than 1% are 50% white or more
So, despite Halle Berry, Barack Obama and Alicia Keys, blacks with a white parent are rare.
So, when you say “white”, you mean 100% white parent? Is it possible that more than 1% of black people have a white parent- it’s just their “white” parent is not 100% white? Maybe their parent is just passing for white, or doesn’t know (s)he isn’t 100% white. Of course, black person with such a parent is less than 50% white, but isn’t it possible to have a white parent and not to be half white?
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Lynette’s right. I believe that the majority of black Americans reside in the South. I currently live in Southeastern VA and I would also believe that the U.S. overall was as heavily black as it is here if I didn’t know the offical numbers.
Speaking of population, are you guys ready for the 2010 Census? It’s been said that blacks (as well as illegal immigrants, mainly from Mexico) are heavily undercounted. Let’s make sure that this year’s numbers corrolate with reality.
The data above is very interesting. So, most black Americans can trace their linege back to modern day Guinea Coast? What about Central African countries, since some of the slave trade took part there as well? It would interesting if a black American could trace their lineage back to Mozambique, for instance.
Of course, black Americans with a white parent are rare. (Despite the three prominent celebrities you cited, who are also exceptions). So are black/non-black unions overall. I’ve said that before on here. Hence, why it baffles me that people put so much energy and thought into them when they don’t even exist nearly as much as they are hyped.
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Lynette,
I don’t want to come across as nosy but I do know that you’ve mentioned your Louisiana Creole heritage. I do know that the original LA Creoles descended from Haiti. Can you trace some of your lineage to there? If so, it’s probable that your African heritiage derives from the nation of Benin.
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To expound on the question I asked Lynette, has any black American (or non-American for that matter ) KNOW or think they know where at least some of their African ancestry (or non-African ancestry even) derives?
I’m just curious as I’ve always been fascinated by the bloodlines of western blacks.
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Mira said:
“So, when you say “white”, you mean 100% white parent? Is it possible that more than 1% of black people have a white parent- it’s just their “white” parent is not 100% white? Maybe their parent is just passing for white, or doesn’t know (s)he isn’t 100% white. Of course, black person with such a parent is less than 50% white, but isn’t it possible to have a white parent and not to be half white?”
Well, good point. According to AncestrybyDNA the average White American is only 90.5% European:
90.5% European
3.0% sub-Saharan African
2.8% Asian
3.8% indigenous American
That seems about right except for the”Asian”, which I am guessing is probably Native American more than East Asian.
Most Black Americans are between 10% and 30% white, so if you have a white parent and a black parent, in most cases you will be between 50.25% (90.5/2 + 10/2) and 60.25% (90.5/2 + 30/2) European.
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Interesting map. I was surprised to see that most counties in America of German descent. I just didn’t know that many Germans came here. I thought British would be number one.
I was also surprised to see that in Idaho and Eastern Washington, places I thought there virtually no people of color(other than a few Native American reservations) that there are Mexican counties.
I’m also curious about the 3% Asian ancestry since blacks and Asians don’t mix very much.
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The American government says the country is 12.4% black. My guess is that it is closer to 20%:
12.4% – self-reported blacks
3.9% – a fourth of all Hispanics (62% of Hispanics say they are white, which is not believable)
2.5% – half of “other”
——————————–
18.8%
Then add maybe a percent or so because blacks are undercounted more than others.
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Tulio said:
“I’m also curious about the 3% Asian ancestry since blacks and Asians don’t mix very much.”
Ask Robert Lindsay. I bet he knows.
Asians probably mixed more with blacks in the past than they do now: in the 1800s many Chinese labourers were brought to North America and the West Indies. Most were men and were not able to bring their families or go back home.
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There is actually an island off of Grenada called Carriacou where some people kept their last name from AFRICA.
I do believe they are the only people in the history of slavery who kept their africa name!!
Their last names were
1. Quashie(alternate spellings as well Quarshie, Kwashi)
2. Cudjoe
There are 1 or 2 other African names on the island.
I do believe these are Ghanian names!
There is a BIG DRUM FESTIVAL (TOMBSTONE) where African dances and rythms show which part of Africa they came from.
They had a Sottish innfluence but held on tight to their African roots.
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Tulio:
Remember that that map does not take population density into account. Chicago is just as big on that map as some empty stretch of Utah.
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Carriacou is a part of Grenada, a little island off of it.
I am proud to say, in the terrible history of slavery, in this island, there are some who can trace their family back to AFRICA!
They kept not only their last names, but also incorporated the BIG DRUM FESTIVAL where each dance represented their nation from Africa
The Europeans tried to stamp it out but they held fast and if you go to Africa and see dances, they match
see below FROM CARRIACOU TOURISM WEBSITE!
This lively cultural dance was brought to Carriacou by slaves from the west coast of Africa and is also known as the African Nation Dance. Though colonialism attempted to eradicate drumming, this particular tradition survives, recreating dances from different African nations as the Kromantin (famous for their rebellious spirit), the Mandingos originating from Nigeria (dances for healing), the Ibos originating south of Nigeria (dances to make restituation to their god when it was thought he was offended) and of the Arada (for healing & casting out spells). Also performed are some of the old Creole Dances – like the most popular Bele Kawe where two females fight over a cock or king. The drums are used primarily to accompany dancers, who are mostly woman with long over skirts that fly up into a swirling, colorful display with their fancy footwork. Big Drum dances, featured at most celebrations, emanate their own rhythmic magic, binding community members together and with their rich cultural heritage. Witnessing one of these dances, you’ll be transported back to another time and place.
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Not to be off topic, but does anyone else find it funny that “American” ancestry is so well represented? Who am I kidding? I’m not really surprised that so many people simply put American.
abagond said:
in the 1800s many Chinese labourers were brought to North America and the West Indies. Most were men and were not able to bring their families or go back home.
I was going to post something along those lines, but this is a quick post because there’s not really much to add at the moment.
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abagond,
The Asian is mostly Native American. The Cherokee have just rescinded Native American status to Blacks who were descendants of their slaves or intermarriage between Blacks and Cherokee.
Blacks went with the Seminole after they lost the war to Oklahoma and stayed with them on the reservation. Ask any Southerner Black or White, if they have any Native American ancestry and they will answer, yes.
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What is my RACE? HUMAN RACE
We are all Human regardless of our skin color.
I think we can all agree on that.
Race is not important. Humanity IS!!!
UNITY BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!
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It would be interesting to see that map overlaid with the rate of violent crime, especially rape. I have a feeling that the purple and pink areas might just be a little bit overrepresented in those categories…
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I’m not trying to give you my approval but you seem to feel like you need it. I think you are pretty and I can’t affirm you any other way.
I haven’t said anyone was stupid or lazy.
You keep saying whites call you this. You see yourself as stupid and lazy through a white person’s eyes. Not us. It’s your reflection that you see.
So Obama isn’t privileged? He’s black. He’s the president for crying out loud.
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@ Lynette
Well, there are quite a few predominantly Black cities (i.e., Detroit, New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago). If you have lived in those areas most of your life, you would think that Blacks comprise a greater percentage of the United States. Also, many Blacks live in the South. So, if you lived in the South most of your life, it would appear that there are many more Blacks in the United States.
This makes sense. But I never lived in America (and I’ve never been to America) so I guess something else- and not personal experience- shaped my views.
PS-If there are 14% Blacks, and (Abagond says) 9% of them are middle class… Does that mean more than half of black people in America is middle class? Or should we go with Abagond’s estimation of almost 19% black people?
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Abagond,
This is a curious post? Do you really believe that AncestrybyDNA is capable of determining with a high degree of accuracy a person’s “racial” composition when race is wholly a social construct? Shouldn’t skin color or hair texture or some definitive set of physical and geographic attributes be used in stead of race? Or is race quite useful after all? Is race something in addition to a social construct?
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Of course, black Americans with a white parent are rare. (Despite the three prominent celebrities you cited, who are also exceptions). So are black/non-black unions overall. I’ve said that before on here. Hence, why it baffles me that people put so much energy and thought into them when they don’t even exist nearly as much as they are hyped.
Probably because black/black unions are not doing so hot. People view them as a means to “escape” or as a scapegoat for the current state of black/black unions, which in itself are exceptions (in terms of marriage but no in terms of churning about babies) as a majority of black people are single (men and women).
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i don’t get how white/black biracials are rare…do you mean, that many biracials fall in the 19% and not the 1%?
i see lots of biracial kids (almost always white mom/black dad)…there has been alot more in m city in the last few years…these are the ones that are younger than me, there are also many the same age as me give or take a few years…
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*my
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@Peter Lerman
Such a tool! Get lost troll!
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@ Mira:
I am not sure I understand your question. About half of blacks in America are middle-class. If you go with the govermment’s number of the country being 12.4% black then that means 9% of the American middle-class is black. Something like three-fourths of white Americans are middle-class.
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Always Right said:
“i see lots of biracial kids (almost always white mom/black dad)…there has been alot more in m city in the last few years…these are the ones that are younger than me, there are also many the same age as me give or take a few years…”
It seems like mixed race people and those in mixed marriages who comment on this blog are always saying they see mixed race couples and children everywhere, that there are plenty of them.
I do not see that in my own experience. The 1% seems right to me. I could even buy 2%, but not much higher than that. Part of that 19%, like Mira said, could also biracial.
So maybe there are pockets of them here and there, like near racially liberal cities. Those who report high rates live in or near San Fracisco, Minneapolis and Washington or are military.
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i live in missouri, i read somewhere that is like number 10 for most black and white mixes…
all i know from my experiences is that every time i go to the store i tend to see a white mom with little biracial kids, or sometimes with a grandpa or something….
i wouldn’t consider st. louis to be liberal though, its pretty racist here actually (white people were in a roar last year over the potrayal of a white woman and black man a real couple on a newspaper magazine…).
i guess as a biracial person myself, its like a radar sense for me to pick up on other biracials more.
all i know is that i find 1% hard to believe from what i have seen myself.
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Do you live near a military base?
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here is the link to what i was talking about.
http://www.parenting-child-development.com/biracial-child.html
no. i don’t live near a military base.
i find it rare to find mixed people older than me though…i just think that when it comes to younger ones its becoming common because more black guys get with white women…at least around here…
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actually i wouldn’t say black men and white women get together that much more…st. louis is pretty segregated…i discovered this AFTER high school ended…
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RR:
AncestrybyDNA is not telling what your race is – just where your DNA seems to come from compared to their database of DNA from different parts of the world. Notice that their terms are named after places, not skin colour or anything physical.
I am not sure how they determine indigenous American, however, since there are so few purebloods left. I guess if they see stuff in Native Americans they see in no one else they count that as native. That might be why Asian keeps coming up. I can see a Native American background noise in American DNA, but not Asian.
I would not take the AncestrybyDNA numbers as gospel – I put it there to give you an idea. It is based on their testing and their customers. But it is not far off from what I guessed: 15% white, 5% native and 80% black.
Telling me that I am 34.4% sub-Saharan African and 56.0% European – as the subject of my next post will be – does not tell you what my race is. It sounds like I am probably black, but not necessarily. It depends on how I look, on what different people consider me – not just landlords and employers and strangers in the street but family and neighbourhood too.
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They could have gone to Sweden or Finland where the “smart, hard-working, and superior white people” are and made them slaves!
Whites call black people lazy and stupid, yet they singled us out targeted us and made us work like animals!
Firstly, in the era of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, there were not more than a couple of million people living in Sweden and Finland, so even if all of them would have been made slaves, it would not have amounted to much.
Secondly, the Swedish kingdom, which included Finland, was one of the more powerful countries in Europe back then. Someone trying to seize slaves from there risked having their ships sunk to the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
Nevertheless, in times of war, many people ended up as slaves in Northern Europe, too. For example, about 20.000 Finns were carried off as slaves by the Russians during the Great Northern War (1700-1721). In Russia itself, of course, most people were serfs until the emancipation in 1861.
So, Africa was targeted by slave traders, because it had a relatively large population, and was too fragmented and powerless politically to resist the slavers.
Abagond, it seems that the current methods are not always good at separating West Asian, East Asian, and native American ancestry from each other. Larry David, who is of course Jewish, did one of these DNA tests, and came out with 37% native American ancestry. If that’s true, I’m converting to Mormonism.
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That is pretty wacky, about Larry David.
I think political weakness was part of it, but even more important than that was resistance to tropical diseases.
If I remember correctly, they used white labourers at first in Barbados to cut sugar cane, but they died off too quickly. A black African man, however, could last a good eight years before he dropped dead from being overworked.
I also know that Costa Rica wanted to build a railroad from the capital to the coast to export coffee. They also used white workers at first, but it took bringing in black Jamaicans to get the thing done. Again, it was because of tropical diseases.
Tropical diseases were not a big deal in English-speaking North America, but by 1619 there was already a ready market of black slave labour supplying Brazil and the Caribbean.
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In the case of North America another thing that favoured black slave labour is that black runaways would stick out and be much easier to catch and return – unlike with whites and natives, who could disappear into the white and native parts of the country.
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The political weakness of Native Americans also matters: it meant it was easy to push them off their land, giving whites more land than they could possibly work by themselves. That led to a larger demand for labour than England could supply over the long run.
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@Abagond
I am not sure I understand your question. About half of blacks in America are middle-class.
Yes, I wanted to know if half of black people in America is middle class. While it’s less than middle class white people, you could ask why there are still so many stereotypes about violent and poor black people if there’s a significant number of blacks who are middle class.
@Abagond
Telling me that I am 34.4% sub-Saharan African and 56.0% European – as the subject of my next post will be – does not tell you what my race is.
To tell you the truth, I’d consider such a person to be “mixed”.
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Mira said:
“Yes, I wanted to know if half of black people in America is middle class. While it’s less than middle class white people, you could ask why there are still so many stereotypes about violent and poor black people if there’s a significant number of blacks who are middle class.”
Most white people seem to have no idea that there are black middle-class suburbs of cities like New York, Atlanta and Washington. Because they never go there, because America is that segregated. Instead they watch hip hop videos on television and think THAT is Black America.
More about that in these posts:
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Mira said about someone who is 34% black and 56% white:
“To tell you the truth, I’d consider such a person to be ‘mixed’.”
Well in America people want to put you in boxes. “Mixed” is not currently a functioning category in American society. It was once in New Orleans.
You can now read about that someone who is 34% black and 56% white here:
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It does not matter how for these blacks got here or that were brought as slaves. By the way, that was the only method of emmigration of blacks from Africa.
This quote above is ridulous as evidence has shown Africans went to places like Mexico even before the Spanish got there
As for the comment about how we should be greatful for our standard of living and being greatful for our ancestors being abused…
The little Austrian girl Natashsa Kampusch was held hostage in a basement for 8 years. When her kidnapper died, she got his house and car. WOULD YOU SAY THE SAME TO HER? HOW ABOUT SAYING THAT TO HER PARENTS????
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Abagond says:
AncestrybyDNA is not telling what your race is – just where your DNA seems to come from compared to their database of DNA from different parts of the world.
I’m almost certain that the company uses mDNA to find out where your ancestors come from, Abagond. Regular human DNA wouldn’t help you much there.
For folks who are checking in late to this discussion, read https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/mitochondrial-dna/
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PEDLYDE
The other point is, before colonialism, there were great kingdoms in Africa, Ethiopia at one time was considered one of the greatest cities as well as other kingdoms like Nubia, Great Zimbabwe, Mali, Ghana, Timbuktu. Colonialism, spreading deserts slavery(stealing the best,the young and the strong) decimated the villages leaving only old and the brokenhearted
There’s an an excellent BBC series on called THE LOST KINGDOMS OF AFRICA..Watch it and learn instead of making blanket statements and telling us how we should feel!
Even today, I meet alot of Africans who have immigrated to England to work. But guess what? Their standard of living has been LOWERED !!!
I’ve seen lots of pictures of their gorgous homes in AFRICA complete with top of the line amenities, as well as maid service and beautiful lawns.
Alot come here to work only because the pound is strong. Trust me, when they retire, THEY GO RIGHT BACK TO AFRICA!!!
So don’t please don’t play White Savior. Your people are as much as a saviour to us as that kidnapper was to Natasha Kampusch
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The average life expectancy of blacks in America even during the periods of slavery was thrice that of any black in Africa and the infant mortality rate a tenth or less, no massive famines and no ebola type plagues, and no tribal warefare with mass slaughters like in Africa.
Apparently the life expectancy of slaves in America was also higher than that of Europeans in Europe in the same time period. There were lots wars, plagues and famines in Europe, too.
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With regard to:
There’s an an excellent BBC series on called THE LOST KINGDOMS OF AFRICA.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pv1m4
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Pedlyde:
So Jews should thank Americans for not putting them in ovens too, right? And therefore Jews have no right to complain about anti-Semiticism, right?
I did a post on the “Go back to Africa” argument:
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Yeah I’m watching that BBC series I was just about to mention it here but you beat me to it. LOL
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@Grena
Yo are so right many Africa come to the UK because the £ is strong (Or other countries where the currency is worth more) and they send money back to build their homes then go back to their home country
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Alwaysright,
I don’t dispute your observations at all. But in fairness, of course, you would notice interracial black children more. Hence, why you most likely overestimate their existence. I also have lived in the super-liberal Northeast and while I saw a visible amount of black/white offpsring and relationships, they were FAAARRRR outnumbered by monoracial black (and white) couples and chidren.
I currently live in Southeastern VA, which is a huge military area. Again, monoracial couples and children are predominate. Greatly.
Truth B Told,
How could anyone truly tabulate the individual relationship status of any ethnic group?
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Grena, you’re ancestors were not strong, nor were they stolen. They were captured in african wars and sold to Europeans. Everything you own was created by whites. We are you’re savior.
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Jews, don’t complain about anit-Semitism like blacks complain about racism. Also, Jews don’t get special treatment, unlike blacks who benefit greatly from being black in college admittions. I rarely ever hear Jewish people make excuses fro not succeeding in life. Also, Jews and blacks are hated for different reasons. Jews are hated because they’re so successful and brilliant. Most of the Nobel prize winners are Jewish. Blacks are hated because of their hateful demeanor. Blacks are hated because of all the crime and chaos they cause in our major cities. Blacks are not making significant contributions to American society or the world at large. What do you call a primitive people like blacks? What is their purpose? I wish we had a final solution in America today. We need our Adolf Eichmann.
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@ Pedlyde
You must not hang around Jews because they complain anti-semitism a whole lot! and you sound bitter.
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Abagond:
It’s your website (love it to death), but do you really have to allow idiots like Pedlyde to post here? What is the purpose of allowing racists to post on your website? Just asking.
By the way, your website is very educational. Keep up the excellent work!!
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Pedlyde said,
“What is their purpose? I wish we had a final solution in America today. We need our Adolf Eichmann.”
If you really know what your statement means, and then really meant it that way, you scare me.
The point is, for whatever reason, the statistics are what they are. One must admit that white people in America have been responsible in one way or another for the situation many blacks are in. I am not saying ALL whites are responsible for ALL impoverishing black people…not at all. It is a matter of historical record, cause and effect. If you were shit on your whole life it would take a person of mighty character indeed to persevere and “make it” when nobody gives him (or her) a fair chance. Those that did not or could not ended up ina situation where “why even try” was the best survival technique psychologically. I am talking about decades ago, before affirmative action and the CR movement.
Nowadays there are many opportunities for blacks in America, (not saying it is perfect, by any means) but it still requires a BP individually to make the decision to strive for excellence and not make excuses. The ones that do not choose to take up these opportunities are the ones that (I think) most WP think of, unfortunately.
I grew up in a lower middle-class neighborhood (we were at the low end) next to some townhouses primarily populated by black families. I observed their behavior, which showed many things that could be interpreted as lazy and criminal. Black bullies, crime (my Mom was mugged by a BM), but with lots of opportunities (public schools, good teachers here and there, once in awhile a really good mentor or counselor, and a tenacious single Mom), but no Father of the house to help me acquire some character and manly identity. I am NOT saying in any way that I am a victim. It was just my situation. I had to bust my ass in the face of many challenges like having no real guidance about how to “make it,” fear of failure, as well as my own lack of character (i.e., perseverence and steadfastness in my work ethic, not whining about work). I saw the townhouse people and did not want to end up like that. I eventually just kept trying…it came down to a personal decision to not accept anything less than my goals. Please do not interpret this as crowing, but just some background on the point of view of one particular WP.
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Abagond,
I agree that AncestorybyDNA is not telling any individual client what his or her race is. But the company does give an indication to clients what their ancestral constitutions are, which, as I have stated previously, is related to race. How can one racially characterize a person with 20% sub-Saharan African, 30 % Native American and 50% European DNA? I don’t know. But we can say with certainty that sub-Saharan African genetic signatures are different than Native American and European signatures. We can opt to go with geographic locations rather than using racial designators, but the meaning of the terms will be the same, although they will be less useful and much more unwieldy. And scientists, especially those interested in curing diseases that affect a specific racial/ethnic group disproportionately, will use “race” (whether in geographic or familial terms) to most efficiently treat their patients. This is why bone marrow donors are asked to indicate their “race” when they join the bone marrow registry. A person who is Hapa (of mixed Japanese and European ancestry) is more easily matched with a person of similar ancestral (i.e. racial) background. The people who run the registry use race to narrow the list of potentially successful donors, because people of radically dissimilar “racial” backgrounds are ill suited for bone marrow exchange. They use race to more efficiently identify people who might have the requisite genetic (i.e. racial) background of the person in need of the transplant.
You wrote:
“Telling me that I am 34.4% sub-Saharan African and 56.0% European – as the subject of my next post will be – does not tell you what my race is.
I agree wholeheartedly. But the fact that it is possible to determine one’s ancestral background so precisely does indicate that it is possible to differentiate between the races. Race, although difficult to define, exists scientifically, and race can serve useful scientific purposes.
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Patricia said:
“It’s your website (love it to death), but do you really have to allow idiots like Pedlyde to post here? What is the purpose of allowing racists to post on your website? Just asking.”
I do not mind racists who can read and think, who are serious. I think they are an education for all of us – though not in the way they intend to be. It is like what St Paul said about heretics: they help us to sharpen and strengthen our beliefs.
As for those who say plainly idiotic things, they are a waste of bandwidth. But I lack a comment policy to delete their comments. I want my comment policy to be ideologically neutral, so I cannot say, ” I will delete any comment I think is just plain idiotic”.
If you have any ideas, I am all ears.
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I don’t see the need for a comment policy so neutral that even calls for genocide are tolerated!
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“I do not mind racists who can read and think, who are serious. I think they are an education for all of us – though not in the way they intend to be. It is like what St Paul said about heretics: they help us to sharpen and strengthen our beliefs.”
What an apt analogy. Paul was defending an illogical, obvious false doctrine- that a man rose from the dead and was in fact “God,” while you advocate an equally preposterous belief- that there is no such thing as race and all humans are inherently equal.
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RR says:
How can one racially characterize a person with 20% sub-Saharan African, 30 % Native American and 50% European DNA?
Fool.
Ancestry research groups use mDNA, not human DNA to determine a person`s ancestry.
There is no such animal as “African” or “European” DNA.
As for Peter Lerman…
you advocate an equally preposterous belief- that there is no such thing as race and all humans are inherently equal.
The title of the post says it all: race is social. It does not say “race doesn’t exist”.
What part of this clear distinction is giving you trouble Peter?
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@abagond
“Well in America people want to put you in boxes.”
I feel like that kind of thinking comes from people who put themselves in boxes. Or it comes from someone who wants to fit in a “box”. Why is everyone so preoccupied with labels and being put in “boxes”?
My wife has many tattoos. She often says before she meets people that “they won’t like me because I have tattoos”. In the end they don’t like her because she has decided already that they won’t like her so she doesn’t try to really get to know them. The energy is all wrong from the beginning and no one even has to say a word. It’s felt subconsciously I think. It’s weird kinda paradigm. Basically if you think people put you in a box you are already boxed in yourself.
I mentioned it before on here I think. Self Fulfilling prophecy. It’s real. Power over us is only given by us.
Another thing. There is nothing you can say about me, any name you can call me, any racial slur you can label me, that will ever change me. Just because someone calls me a ninja does not make me one. When I was a kid there was a saying — “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” People have forgotten that one. But I digress.
Unity by any means necessary!
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@Pedlyde
It sounds like someone has a hero complex….
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LaReyna,
Thanks for your insightful observation. Hopefully, the trolls will either learn to debate respectfully or get lost.
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So true, LaReyna.
I have gotten to the point i don’t even bother reading their dribble anymore.
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From here on out I will acknowledge BW and BM and any other people I happen to meet the same way as I did that girl last night. And I thank whoever it was that posted that comment about BW being ignored, looked thru, etc. for sharing that personal experience as a concrete example of something WM can do differently.
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Jason,
Acknowledging the basic humanity of BP by greeting them is a good first step in helping to improve relations between BP and WP. Keep it up.
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I actually never thought they cared, as usually I get no acknowledgement myself.
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@ Abagond
Please delete Mr Thomas comments before I curse him out and you will then bann me from your blog.
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Deleted. Thanks.
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Approximately 55,000 years ago the only people living on the planet, which included Africa, Asia, Europe and quite possibly the Pacific Islands would be called black people in the U.S. and probably elsewhere today. Why then, do we assume, that European DNA would be people other than people termed black today?
Dr. Barry Fell, in his book America B.C. says the story of Asians coming into the Americas from the Bering Straits was fabricated to appease the pope, to correlate with the biblical stories that still abound today. The finding of Kenewick Man in the Washington state, suggests that he would have been more of South Pacific heritage (an Austriloid) and not Asian. Wouldn’t this throw monkey wrench into to Asians populating of the America’s? So should we look for Asian DNA in Native Americans for elsewhere?
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The remains of Australoids have also been found in Chile and Brazil, way older than anything Asian.
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Without being pernickity again he he he.
Are you guys specifically referring to ‘Proto-Australoids’ or Australoids here??
Thanks
I never did like that terminology…
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With regard to my own very question:
Without being pernickity again he he he.
Are you guys specifically referring to ‘Proto-Australoids’ or Australoids here??
Thanks
So I see my question ‘PALE(OINDIAN)D’ into insignificance
he he he he
Get it…??
Marks out of ten…Then???
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I think I must mean proto-Australoids. I wrote about it in passing in two posts:
At https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/race-in-brazil/
I said:
“Thousands of years ago a race of black people once lived in Brazil!”
and at https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/negritos/
I said:
“We do not know if the palaeoindians of 30,000 years ago (at Pedra Furada in Brazil and Monte Verde 2 in Chile) belonged to haplogroup M, but we do know they looked like the people in Australia, so it seems likely. They could have been shipwrecked there – they did have boats, having reached Australia. (The Incas, for example, knew about white people before the Spanish came because of shipwrecks.)”
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@J:
There’s an an excellent BBC series on called THE LOST KINGDOMS OF AFRICA.
Thanks J. Unfortunately it is only available for viewing in the UK. Perhaps I will purchase it when it comes out on DVD.
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Sorry about that…
Whilst you decide to wait to buy the video you can have a preview of SOME of the series at least on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lost+kingdoms+of+Africa&search_type=&aq=f
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Before I traveled to other parts of the lower 48 states, I used to think that America was muiltiracial. My ex who was mixed German, Colombian, and Arab(he looked very white he had fair skin, blondeish brown hair, blueish green eyes) thought the same as well and he I decided to take a summer road trip along with 4 other friends, 1 asian girl, 2 white guys, and 1 mixed-race girl(she was Black and white) to Texas but we made a mini detour to visist some of the Mid-western/Rust Belt States one summer(Ohio, Illnois, Michigan, Indiana).
Sorry for all those who live in the Mid-west. It’s the most segregated,racist, depressing and backwards region of the US. I’ve visted and stayed in all the states in the South and I never felt unwelcomed or a racist vibe. We went to the Detriot area and it was horrible. We had went to a Walmart in the suburbs for food and supplies the people treated us like crap. I was checked by store security and they followed me. My boyfriend kissed me and this white women glared at up and she called me a N-word. My boyfriend had told her to f-off and mind her business and she called him a n-word lover. WTF?!?
Never before was I called something like that not even in the backwoods of Mississippi or Georgia. She went on ranting about how the country is becoming mongrelized and how there aren’t any good American values.We left the store immidieatly.I just couldn’t take it.
We went to several other states and cities in this area and attitudes were similar and this area was so desolate. I’ve never been in a area so segregated. When we were in Indiana we were told to stay on the main roads/highways no shortcuts and detours because there is a huge KKK/Neo-Nazi presence in Indiana. I felt like we were driving through a WWII battlefield. The rust belt is so blighted and impoverished. I would never raise my children there or even consider that area.
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@Ms Caribbean.
I live in Midwest and its definitely segregated like…i don’t know about the south though as the furthest i have been was kentucky (and briefly tennessee once).
worst of all is that i live in a county/city so there is millions when you add it all up yet still its pretty segregated.
you often see the “token black” in groups though…which isn’t saying much at all…
racism is socially acceptable here and its depressing….
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We don’t think it’s as easy as your everyday peel-and-stick adhesive bumper sticker, but just the same. It sounds like a major improvement from the tedious drilling and constructing that goes into the installation of ordinary solar panels. The Lumeta PowerPly solar panels are glued in place on the roof, using adhesives normally used in roofing. So far the method/product is only available for commercial buildings, but we hope an application for private homes will be in the market soon.
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You all might be interested in a recent study I found on African-American and West and Central African ancestry.
Scientists from Cornell and UPenn lead a global research team which collected genomic data from 365 African-Americans, 203 people from 12 West African populations (which isn’t enough given the amount of groups, and a major downside to this study) and 400 Europeans from 42 countries. Their findings adds a bit to the puzzle of black American origins (as well as the genetic differences between African groups).
Take-home points that are relevant to this topic (from the linked page):
-Among the 365 African-Americans in the study, individuals had as little as 1 percent West African ancestry and as much as 99 percent.
-A median proportion of European ancestry in African-Americans of 18.5 percent, with large variation among individuals.
-The predominately African origin of X chromosomes of African-Americans. This is consistent with the pattern of gene flow where mothers were mostly of African ancestry while fathers were either of African or European ancestry
-The similarity of the West African component of African-American ancestry to the profile from non-Bantu Niger-Kordofanian speaking populations, which include the Igbo and Yoruba from Nigeria and the Brong from Ghana (prominent Bantu groups included the Bamoun of Cameroon and Kongo of Democratic Republic of Congo)
–Little genetic differentiation among African-Americans in the African portion of their ancestry, reflecting the fact that most African-Americans have ancestry from several regions of western Africa.
-The greatest variation among African-Americans is in their proportion of European ancestry
————-
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/uop-gsc121809.php
Full original study: http://backintyme.com/admixture/bryc01.pdf
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If anybody is interested that big tan area of the country that says American is usually white hillbillies that don’t know their ethnicity. I would say 90% of them are Scots Irish or British. So there are more people from the British Isles then this map shows.
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Natasha I agree the study should have included more people. J made a good point on the Rhinelander post.
The problem that I have with this analysis is that it presumes people’s from other parts of the continent did not migrate to West Africa.
What I like to say is at the point of capture West Africa is the point of departure, but an individual could have migrated there from anywhere on the continent.
Unless we are going to presume that there was no movement for individuals, or groups of people, on the continent…
What do you think?
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As far as I am aware, there hasn’t been much mixing between distant ethnic groups and W. African groups.
There were a couple of studies done on the genomes of various W. African ethnic groups (I’ll try to find and post here, but I have so many studies saved, I might not be able to find it). The plots for the genomes showed very tight clusters for each ethnic group, denoting very little admixture. The only group I am aware that has significant admixture (from the Berber) is the Fulani, which makes sense since they are a nomadic people and not strictly W. African. But the study above showed little similarity between the Fulani genomes and that of black Americans.
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Oh, as far as migration (I see that’s what the question was referring to now, not admixture 🙂 ), still the studies would show if there were any outliers in the groups. If they had migrated to W. Africa, they would have done so such a long time ago as to be insignificant. Shared markers can be found for thousands and even millions of years since separation, depending on the marker.
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Okay I understand what youre saying. Thanks Natasha:)
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On what do you base the assumption that the percentage of Asian ancestry in the white and black populations is wrong? Wouldn’t it be more instructive to investigate why the black and white populations in the US might be 3% Asian already instead of simply dismissing what the tests reveal?
Actually, I think it could in fact be quite reasonable. Asians started settling in the USA in the 18th century and many came in the 19th century. As they were barred from marrying whites, many did indeed marry or have common law black spouses. After 6 generations, there could be 1,-2,000 blacks with measurable Asian ancestry from a single Asian ancestor. And even if they were barred from marrying whites, many did have children with them. If they could not be raised by the Asian parent, they might have been raised as white.
Investigating further might reveal why the tests showed this. I would not be quick to dismiss it and insist that it must be indigenous American and not Asian.
BTW, there is some east Asian ancestry brought into Europe esp. during the Mongol Empire. It would not surprise me if some Eastern European populations are more than 3% Asian. That could have contributed to the percentage of Asian ancestry in the non-Asian populations.
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I wanted to say there are Millions of Pure blood Indigenous Americans left. Maybe even straight up +100million it’s just the U.S. was particularly Genocidal compared to other American countries. South West USA, Mexico, any central american country would be the place to go if AncestryDNA wanted great DNA samples from people of Native Heritage.
On a side note, my European ancestry is 17% but it’s ALL trace regions. I’m not one kinda European at all. However my African ancestry is 83% apparently and I’m related to 3/4 of Africa, no ethnic group is more than 15% of my DNA. I’m a complete and utter mutt on both fronts. What I find odd though is that they say I am absolutely 0% Asian, and 0% Middle Easter, Polynesian, but I am questionably 0-1% Native American…so is that like 83 + 17 + 0-1% = 101%? lmao
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@Desmond Mellerson
Yes, but would DNA collected from Guatemala or Brazil be enough to determine if one were part Eastern Woodland Algonquian, not to mention Shawnee, Rappahanock or Unami Lenape? We don’t even have enough DNA to clearly Distinguish between Iroquoian and Algonquian — if we go as far as comparing to South America, then it might make as much sense to compare to Inuit.
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“Despite that slow start, America now has more blacks than any other country in the world except for Brazil and Nigeria”.
I know that I’m nit-picking, but I don’t think that this number is entirely accurate if you consider that the U.S. Black population is around 46 million. The Black American population is more comparable to the populations of Uganda (40 million) and Kenya (46 million)
Here are some other majority Black populations that out number the U.S.
Ethiopia (Depending on how you breakdown the population on ethnic/racial lines) (98 million)
Democratic Republic of the Congo (72 million)
United Republic of Tanzania (52 million)
Don’t get me wrong however. The United States has one of the largest and most visible Black populations outside of Africa, but because I have a really strong interest in populations, their numbers and distribution, this part of the article really screamed at me (for the lack of a better word!) 🙂
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@ Aniwazoa
I do not know what possessed me to write that. Even in 2010 when I wrote it I doubt that was true. I changed it to what I should have said:
Thank you.
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No problem Abagond. The numbers cited on Black America are highly fascinating. Would you be doing a similar article on other Black populations such as those in the Caribbean? I think that would be awesome since the Caribbean often gets overlooked in relation to the rest of the “Black World”.
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Thank you for this information. Just received my DNA results. Iam 87% Africa and 11% European. I guess I.still need to have a lineage test done. I guess DNA just gives me my possible regional beginning. I claim West Africa.
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