According to commenter Black & German, a black woman married to a white man, here is the sort of white men who go for black women and will seriously date and marry them:
- Style: The complete absence of swagger. White men call this “game”. Guys with swagger are trying to project an image. That means that they care too much about what other people think. Avoid them like the plague.
- Line of work: He is an engineer, systems analyst, lab technician, middle-manager, mechanic, union worker, researcher, graphic designer, college professor, accountant or something else that involves well-paid drone status. Avoid any man with a glamorous career like lawyer, doctor, corporate executive, etc. Self-employed men are “iffy” and have to be evaluated case-by-case.
- Looks: He is good-looking but your girlfriends would describe him as “cute” rather than “sexy” or “hot”. He may actually be completely gorgeous but without the swagger nobody notices.
- Dating life: He does not “date around” and is looking for a serious relationship. He has not been on a date in a while (maybe a long while, maybe even years), not because he “can’t get any” but because he is picky and the behaviour of most women turns him off. He is usually too reserved or shy to ask women out.
- What he likes about you: He is attracted to your intelligence and personality and spends hours talking to you.
- What he likes to do in his free time: He is into computers or computer games. He likes to read or watch non-fiction and science fiction. Trekkies and guys into Japanese animation are a good bet. He has a geeky hobby like programming robots or remodelling old cars. He has circuit boards on his desk at home.
- His manner: He is a bit socially awkward. He is not very good at hiding his emotions and his face is pretty much an open book. He does not brag and his rare compliments are spontaneous and almost involuntary, but sincere.
- Religion: He believes in God but is not very religious. He will attend church with you but probably would not go regularly on his own.
- Intelligence: He is highly intelligent. Some of these guys are have an IQ above 125 – although their scores tend to be skewed towards the non-verbal end which is probably one of their problems in developing “game”.
Basically, he is one of those guys you passed over in high school because he was not cool enough.
They are independent minded and do not care what others think of them. They want a woman who is interesting, intelligent, healthy, and pretty, and do not care much about race, ethnicity or hair colour. That is why you see these men with Asian women.
They do not chase you – at first. These are the more reserved men. You have to take the first – and sometimes the second and, frustratingly, the third – step. Once you have their complete and utter attention the chase begins. Some of these guys are very slow to catch on, though.
See also:
I think the qualities that B&G so rightfully stated apply to a GENUINELY QUALITY MAN. Not neccessarily, a white one. I can think of the white men I’ve known who were involved with a black women. Few of them fit the above criteria. Me, on the other hand, while FAARRR from white, fit nearly all of them.
You may have misread what B&G was saying. But I’m not sure.
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I had to laugh at this one, it’s so true in my experience!
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I think the qualities that B&G so rightfully stated apply to a GENUINELY QUALITY MAN.
I’ve got one word for you: beta. When BW say they want a “quality man” what they mean is that they want a beta male. BW are swimming in a sea of alphas and omegas and the beta males are out hiding behind a boulder and only peeking around if a blond paddles by. It can be frustrating. Girls I get you!
Not neccessarily, a white one.
They do apply more broadly across races. You could be a quality man and NOT have some of these qualities, of course. Basically I was on a “reliable husband and father” hunt and this was what usually turned up.
Sticking to this subset will generally protect you from alphas and other degenerates. These are the guys that end up grilling for 4th of July in their backyard, drinking a beer with their buddies, while discussing the weight distribution properties of baby carriers.
Some omegas hide out among them but that’s where the vetting comes in. Weed them out. Get rid of the racists, the werewolves, the chauvinists and misogynists, the porno-addicts, substance abusers, cheaters, gamblers, and the commitment-phobics. As soon as you get a whiff of that mess show them the door and keep looking. Then take a good look at what’s left over and grab the cute one that keeps glancing at you in the library.
Don’t beat around the bush, hem and haw, wait for him to ask you out, or reject him for some minor flaw. As long as he fits this general pattern he’s good husband material and you should snap him up when you get the chance. If you ask him out and he turns you down the world will not end. There are more of them out there; enough to go around.
I know it sounds easy and it’s NOT (Lord knows I went through years of searching myself). But it’s the only thing that works so there’s no getting around it.
But enough preaching now.
I can think of the white men I’ve known who were involved with a black women.
Where they married or just “involved”?
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This sounds a lot like me, except that I do approach black women. I approach beautiful women whenever I can, and I live in Harlem, so a lot of those women are black.
I think the nerdy “beta” male/smart black woman pairing works miraculously on a number of levels. Both have a just grievance against the dating market (of being underrated) and they tend to have a lot in common in other ways, including how we think. Also, I think WM/BW is a really great looking couple, although I’m obviously biased.
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I agree w/ everything you said, B&G.
Except I think a lot of black women intentionally leave behind “betas” or genuine quality guys for “alphas” until they get badly burned beyond compare by these “alphas”. Then, predictably, they desire a “beta” yet complain of their supposed non-existance.
Also, I had no clue that Peter Norton was behind Norton’s Virus Protector software! It all makes sense, now. And he has a black wife! Two steps in the right direction! LOL. I kid.
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Except I think a lot of black women intentionally leave behind “betas” or genuine quality guys for “alphas” until they get badly burned beyond compare by these “alphas”.
I think that’s a pretty universal female failing.
Like I said, women can be really stupid. I went through a stupid phase myself so I know all about it. Ugh.
Also, I think WM/BW is a really great looking couple, although I’m obviously biased.
Me too, but I am obviously also biased.
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B&G,
It’s a universal female failing just like your list above is pretty universal of ANY male, regardless of race.
Well…it depends on how the WM and BW look on an individual basis. If they’re both hard to look at, then obviously they wouldn’t make for a great looking couple! LOL.
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They are independent minded and do not care what others think of them. They want a woman who is interesting, intelligent, healthy, and pretty, and do not care much about race, ethnicity or hair colour. That is why you see these men with Asian women.
I’m probably going receive flack for this. And this is from my own observation, mind you, but the men you see with AW…well, they tend to want to date/marry AW because AW are supposedly thought of as submissive, feminine, and family oriented…the Asian fetish thing. Also, I have heard this comment directly from the Asian menfolk that I know: Loser, ugly white guys date/marry homely asian girls because their own doesn’t want them.
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LOL! Yes, of course. Two ugly people don’t equal a good-looking couple. Although they may end up with astonishingly good-looking children.
Roissy’s talking about this here:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/everyones-racist-except-black-women/
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@mynameismyname: Yeah, this can’t be pinned only on white women. That said, I think it’s cultural and not a “universal” female problem. There are two things going on. The first is that American women are told they “should” desire the
American alpha-male archetype and a lot of them accept this uncritically, which means these men get a lot more attention than they otherwise would and turn into much bigger assholes than they would naturally be. The second is that, because there isn’t much machismo and actual violence in middle-class white American culture (which is a good thing), women aren’t familiar with just how bad machismo is. An upper-middle-class Polish or Mexican woman would never be seen with a badboy. It would be a shame on their families. Unfortunately, in the US, women actually find it “liberating” to date badboy alphas.
@leigh204: Ridiculous assertion. Go here and I discuss that.
When it comes to marriage, men want intelligence, integrity, curiosity, strength, physical attraction, and humor. If we find this in an Asian woman, we’ll date and marry her. If we find these qualities in a black woman, we’ll date and marry her.
The men who have racial criteria and fetishes tend to have low standards in other areas, and they’re aiming for the middle of the bell curve. If you aim for the top, like most high-functioning men, you can’t have racial criteria.
WM/AW happens a lot, I think, because Asian women who are culturally Asian, at least to some degree, have better tastes in men. Rather than waiting for white women to grow up, we date and marry them (and black women, and those white women who do grow up.)
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Cless Alvein,
I was with you until you made the following comment:
“There isn’t much machismo and actual violence in middle-class white American culture.”
Come again?
I’ve lived in that same middle-class white America and saw the opposite.
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I agree with Leigh,
It’s “equal pimping” on the part of many of the AW/WM pairings. White men who can’t get the desirable white women that they really crave “settle” for what many whites perceive as the “other white meat”- East Asian women). East Asian women get the white man that they feel is “truly American”, will up their feeling of racial/social status and furthers their attempts of assimilation into white America.
Of course, the above assertion isn’t true of every such pairing, but only a blind man wouldn’t notice those recurring patterns.
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@mynameismyname: They like guns and hunting, watch violent movies, and like to watch cars go around a track 200 times for the chance of seeing an explosive crash. The interest in violence may be high, but the actual rate at which violence is committed is very low. Sodinis and Columbines are far from the norm.
Middle-class, suburban, white men may have a bit of machismo, and possibly more than is desired– that would be another discussion– but much less than men of most ethnicities.
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@Cless Alvein:
As I mentioned earlier, it was my own observation. While I don’t doubt what men want in a woman, as mynameismyname said: only a blind man wouldn’t notice those recurring patterns.
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Cless Alvein,
True, true but you can’t deny the level of violence and the abundance of machismo that exist in white “picket fenced” America. I know that you think those two things (violence/machisco) only exist with those bad, dangerous darkies but take a strong, good look in your background: they happen more.
That’s not my perception either but the truth.
And yes, Leigh, neither you or me are blind.
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hey, lets all talk about how great black women are for a change without having to tie them to a white man…
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I’ve got one word for you: beta. When BW says they want a “quality man” what they mean is that they want a beta male. BW are swimming in a sea of alphas and omegas and the beta males are out hiding behind a boulder and only peeking around if a blond paddles by. It can be frustrating. Girls I get you!
Black and German as usually you have great insights and I think you are right except that at least among some of the men that use alpha and beta terms, being a beta male is the least desirable position to be in. Alpha’s are the charismatic leaders that usually, have access to a wider selection of females, regardless of what he physically looks like and males that can’t be alpha resent the attention that he receives with little effort.
From my experience although Alpha’s get the most respect socially, I find them to be extremely conventional and they care a great deal what other people think—so I don’t really see them as a suitable mate for me because a lot of them are image concsious and care a great deal about what’s on the outside. Betas also fall within that sphere as well—since they may be envious of the attention that Alphas get from the more desirable females, they are more prone to conform to conventional standards and may ape some of the Alpha’s tactics to gain more social leverage. Omega’s are the lone wolf types that are also hard to pin down—commitment phobes so to speak and can be your werewolf serial killer types or the asocial loner.
Still from what I have found-geek, unconventional types, often have an extremely over-idealized image of what woman they are looking for. It’s usually some ethereal, pixie, magical, gypsy like woman sprite type—an enchanting Alpha female type—as opposed to the equally shy and non-charismatic female counterpart. I have noticed that beta males, American non-black men especially, have an unwieldy sense of entitlement of what woman should be attracted to them, therefore the unconventional geek with the square lens, may be good fit for a smart subtle comely Black women, but that doesn’t mean that he will notice her if is she is not the pixie alpha female or drop dead gorgeous and conforms to their exhaustive list of requirements so that they can get one up on the Alpha male. The movie Lucas is a great example of this.
As for Peter Norton, he is an extremely rare exception. His first wife was Black and his second wife is Black. Unorthodox, idiosyncratic and brilliant types like him are just as rare as your example of using the IQ range to gage openmindedness (I would raise your cut off to 140)—in which he may be likely be over 150 and has the mindset of not giving a crap of what anyone thinks. Again VERY rare for White males-particularly White American men.
So your description which can be extrapolated to any race should have a new name. Maybe the Gamma male like–Peter Norton.
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What constitutes an alpha male?
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I’m probably going receive flack for this. And this is from my own observation, mind you, but the men you see with AW…well, they tend to want to date/marry AW because AW are supposedly thought of as submissive, feminine, and family oriented…the Asian fetish thing. Also, I have heard this comment directly from the Asian menfolk that I know: Loser, ugly white guys date/marry homely asian girls because their own doesn’t want them.
Leigh, you are not receiving flack when you are speaking the truth. This phenomenon has been exhaustively documented and discussed among some Asian feminist types, so your observation is not wrong. And how about the geek Asiaphiles who are way into anime and know alll the JPOP and KPOP female idols and dream of getting the pixie, drop-dead gorgeous Asian woman.
I used to live around a large East and South East Asian population and you should have heard some of the nasty comments that Asian men made about some of the women that the White guys thought they were getting. And let’s not forget all the “loser, ugly, white guys” who go to Asia, ostensibly as ESL tutors and teachers to look for Asian girls/women.
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White men who can’t get the desirable white women that they really crave
Sorry, I nearly spit out my tea over that one.
I think that you are potentially overestimating the amount of “desirable white women” out there. Desirable women of any race is a small and shrinking group, especially for these high-betas who are looking for actual WIVES and not just sperm receptacles.
The pickings are slim and the competition is fierce. It only makes reproductive sense for a man (and for a woman) to try to make the most advantageous match possible. If he’s controlling for race or ethnicity he’s basically shooting himself in the foot.
After you control for weight (59.6% of WW are overweight or obese), intelligence (less than 10% of WW would make the cut there), sexual gluttony, substance abuse, previous maternity, psycho personalities, health, and physical attractiveness you’re left with about 104.3 WW for the WM of America to fight over. And they’re all trying to score alphas. Or married to a black guy.
I’m kidding… but not really.
If a WM wants a quality WW he should go to Europe. At least they’re not fat so you have a bigger base to start out with.
If he’s staying here he better broaden his base or he’s going to have to lower his standards.
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I co-sign everything Mayhue said. I don’t think I have much to add lol.
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OMFG ARE YOU F__KING SERIOUS!!!!!!
*whew*
I am a black woman, dating an older white man, who fits EVERY LAST DAMN DETAIL!!!!
How the hell did somebody come up with a PROFILE???
THIS IS HILARIOUS…and scary…lol
the guy I’m dating is a systems analyst at a huge software company, he couldn’t have swagger if he tried, he doesn’t date much, he’s into computers and trading stocks, he’s not great-looking, and the thing he loves most about me is having intelligent conversations…this is ridiculously hilarious…
BIG UPS to black&german
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Peanut,
Great idea. I have always thought black women are the most beautiful women. Most are very strong willed, no whining or sniveling. They will take care of business. The one thing I like the most is their sense of humor. Oh yeah, they can be in what may seem to be a hopeless situation and still laugh. They will get through it. As my wife tells me, “Laughing sure beats crying.” Never a dull moment. Most black women I have known were positive and upbeat, not ‘ghetto’ ‘hoes’ etc.
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@mynameismyname
No. I’m pointing out that in feminized, upper-middle-class, suburban American culture, men are, on average, fairly effeminate by world standards, and women don’t encounter as much machismo as they do in most of the world. Is there some machismo, and some violence? Of course, but there’s less of it among American, upper-middle-class men than among most other cultures. Also, the “bubble” effect of suburbia allows people to hide the nastiness that there is (and I’m sure that there’s a lot of it, as you seem to have directly experienced). This isn’t a racial difference at all; it’s cultural and class-based. I shouldn’t have mentioned “white” at all, actually, since race has nothing to do with it. Sorry if that offended you.
The result of this is that women coming out of this culture (American suburbia) generally aren’t familiar enough with machismo to realize that it’s a bad thing, so they crave it. Whereas women coming out of the 90% of cultures that haven’t been feminized have enough experience with machismo (they know women who have been beaten and raped) to know that it’s a horrible thing to be avoided at all costs.
I think the lack of machismo-aversion is part of why American suburban women are so unrefined and uncultured in terms of their tastes in men.
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So your description which can be extrapolated to any race should have a new name. Maybe the Gamma male like–Peter Norton.
LOL. That’s cute. But gamma is sometimes used to refer to omegas. Maybe we should just call them “high-betas” (Roissy calls them “greater betas”).
at least among some of the men that use alpha and beta terms, being a beta male is the least desirable position to be in… and males that can’t be alpha resent the attention that he receives with little effort.
This is true! High-betas are definitely bitter about alphas because alphas are often of lower quality but get more female attention simply by being arseholes.
High-betas are going for quality and not quantity in their offspring. When it works it’s a more effective method but in the meantime he’s watching the alpha males getting laid while he sits at home checking his email and waiting for “Mrs. Right”. It can pay off big-time if she does show up but if she doesn’t…
Unorthodox, idiosyncratic and brilliant types like him are just as rare as your example of using the IQ range to gage openmindedness (I would raise your cut off to 140)
A 140 would usually constitute someone with high verbal AND nonverbal scores, which would result in a different personality. And if you get too high the pool is ridiculously small. It’s better to have a bigger pool and vet more intensely.
What constitutes an alpha male?
Alpha males are those macho, jerks, posers, players, gangsters, etc. who have so much “swagger” or “game” that women flock to them for the sole reason that other women flock to them. This is because women are incredibly sane this way.
Roissy has more on that here:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/defining-the-alpha-male/
And let’s not forget all the “loser, ugly, white guys” who go to Asia, ostensibly as ESL tutors and teachers to look for Asian girls/women.
But if they are ugly they wouldn’t pass my pre-selection criteria. Check out #3. He’s got to at least be physically attractive and pleasant to look at.
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How the hell did somebody come up with a PROFILE???
LOL.
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I think men like Peter Norton and Barack Obama qualify as high beta. It has more to do with reproductive strategy than anything else.
Men who have strong monogamous and family-oriented tendencies are beta by definition.
In pre-monogamous societies:
Alpha: spread seed widely, no paternal investment, wives treated like chattel. 3+ wives and 20+ children. Present-oriented.
Beta: monogamous, prefers egalitarian relationship with wife due to concern for her health (and health of children). High investment in spousal relationship, and high paternal investment in children. Traditionally had 1 wife and “few” (by which I mean 5-7) children. Future-oriented and end up running civilization.
Gamma: low-status mostly celibate men. Can only reproduce, at great risk, by cuckolding other men, starting a revolution, or going off to war and improving their status.
Omega: low status without hope of improvement. Unlike the violent gammas, a mostly inert class. What we call “depression” in the modern world is when the omega-script goes off for no good reason (usually, in my opinion, due to our sedentary lifestyles “tricking” the body and brain into thinking a person is of low status and usefulness; this is why exercise is important in beating depression).
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Oh, right. Thanks for clearing that up about gammas versus omegas.
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BTW, stable societies are mostly beta. More alphas and gammas tend to bring instability. This is why the breakdown of the family increases the crime rate.
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Mayhue,
Your comments on this topic are excellent and extremely insightful.
It’s not enough for BW to be “open” to ALL types (eg. beta, omega,etc.)of men of ALL RACES if those men aren’t interested in SERIOUSLY DATING or MARRYING BW. It’s definitely a two way street.
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@Black&German: Completely correct on betas and stability. The betas become the priests, scholars, merchants and farmers, and quickly realize that they can make society more stable by encouraging everyone to be beta by legally enforcing monogamy.
@laromana: I’m a white guy and consider educated, middle-class American black women to be ideal marriage partners. They have the integrity and class– and often the elegance, too– of foreign women, but they’re fully American. It doesn’t hurt that they’re also often very beautiful.
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FWIW: From a dating website:
“Your Race Affects Whether People Write You Back”
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back
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ABAGOND IS MY HERO!!!
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To Mayhue:
I used to live around a large East and South East Asian population and you should have heard some of the nasty comments that Asian men made about some of the women that the White guys through they were getting.
Well in the US 45% of the American born Asian women marry white men. (whereas 50% marry Asian men..) Sure you can see some bad stereotypes among WM/AF couples but there are many that don’t fall into that realm. I actually have met some Asian women who have complained about White male Asian fetishists but then end up dating and/or marrying white men.
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To Black&German:
After you control for ….sexual gluttony
And this is a problem..?
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I’m sorry but I was reading through the material from that link that Black&German last posted (Defining Alpha Males or something to that effect) and it was this short of depressing. I found it excessively shallow almost to the point of being meaningless. I get an awkward sensation when I see male and female interaction get over analyzed and chopped up into these brackets as if our existence ultimately boils down to reproduction and social status. What is it for? So someone can take an almost scientific approach to “landing a mate” and effectively judge others on their choices in mates? I know the dating scene is rough and some societies are very superficial but thats just pathetic. It perpetuates masks and kills simplicity and for the most part honesty and humility. I think we idealize the concept of a mate to almost an unhealthy degree.
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@Cless Alvein
I thought these terms ‘alpha’ males referred to certain animal species that are social in nature such a wolves for example. There is usually an ‘alpha” female who is the ‘alpha’ male’s mate and a clear delineation of roles for each pack member. Wolves are usually monogamous for life. From your description of the human ‘alpha’ male, these men are anything but. The other wolves in the pack defer to the two alphas. Even in a lion pride the male has his ‘harem’ who do most of the hunting for the pride. The male is there to fend off outside threats. The ‘alpha’ human males as you characterize them, sound like goofs, cretins, thugs, assholes etc. By this definition, the local drug dealer or crack head can be an ‘alpha’ male as long as women are ‘flocking’ to them just as well as any politician or CEO of a company.
As for having 3+ wives that could be a cultural thing it has nothing to do with being ‘alpha’. What of the man who has 3+ plus wives? What’s to stop him from being an ‘omega’ in these relationships? Instead of being henpecked by one wife, he would be henpecked and nagged by his 3+ wives.
What you are describing in essence are jackasses of the highest order who for whatever reason,(there are many) attract women by the bus load, trod on others and are abusive. A man who takes care of his family, is a faithful spouse,good father provides for, and defends them etc, would more than likely be an ‘alpha’ male if you stick to the models held by many other animal species that are social in nature. An ‘omega’ would be these ‘clowns’ you described.
As to why women flock to these ‘alpha’ males, well there is no accounting for bad taste and by extension potentially destructive outcomes is there? As for affixing zoological terminology to this type of behaviour, why? there are enough terms in the human lexicon which describes this type of behaviour. These men as you describe them appear to be pathological. As for the so-called ‘beta’ males who complain, it sounds like sour grapes as they don’t have whatever allure these miscreants have that attract women in droves. The ‘beta’ males should be asking themselves what kind of women are stampeding to these ‘alpha’ males? On closer introspection they will find that most of these women are not the type they would take home to mother nor would want. They should breath a sigh of relief as they have not fallen into the clutches of such women. Ever read the book ‘Of Human Bondage’ by Somerset Maughm? This is a classic case of a ‘beta’ man falling for an unsuitable woman albeit this is fiction. The book was purportedly semi-autobiographical.
This is not a ‘pre-monogamous’ society it is 2009. This so so much psycho-babble used to explain malfeasant behaviour when there are numerous terminologies available for this purpose. Ascribing these attributes to what is, in essence dysfunctional behaviour, does nothing to enhance a man’s chances of dating or marrying any woman. In fact, a woman should run like hell from these psycho-babble spewing men.
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I think that women are entitled to like who they like, no matter what sort of greek letter the man falls under. Even if it’s a mistake, hopefully she learns from it, but there’s not any real way to ‘control’ attraction. It’s a big part of a relationship. Partnerships without attraction are just friendships. This isn’t just in the physical sense. Lots of women are naturally attracted to powerful(seeming) men.
By that same token, not all women are attracted to alpha or omega males. In fact, I find myself more often than not attracted to so-called ‘beta’ males. Though, in my mind they are by no means second best. I’m not fond of popularity, power, or aggressiveness. But I do need someone who is intelligent (even if it’s in a different way), unaffected by image, and yes, attractive. I’m not afraid to ask a guy out either, but trying a second, third or fourth time is something I will not do( I’m a firm believer in ‘no means no’). SO far I’ve had no luck.
Then again, alpha males aren’t all bad, there’s certain people for everyone. And I think there is probably a good number of women well suited to the alpha male standard. We may not like the standard, but it’s there, and it will probably always be there (though the details may change). I just wish everyone could be lucky and smart enough to find a mate that truly suits them, instead of someone they THINK they want.
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Uncle Milton says:
FWIW: From a dating website:
“Your Race Affects Whether People Write You Back”
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back
laromana says,
It’s bittersweet to see data that confirms what MOST BW have been saying for a LONG time – in American society, BW ARE being subjected to ANTI-BW RACISM from MOST men of ALL RACES when it comes to DATING and MARRIAGE.
I am so FED UP/DISGUSTED with continuing ANTI-BW RACISM in the dating world that makes it MUCH HARDER for BW (than for NON-BW) to find men of ANY RACE to SERIOUSLY DATE and MARRY them.
I would like to see a successful BW in the business world set up an exclusive dating site for BW with special services/benefits to facilitate the vetting/dating process that lead to MORE POSITIVE,SUCCESSFUL DATING and MARRIAGE relationships for BW.
I would want to see an expert marketer hired to promote this site, recruit QUALITY men of ALL RACES (who are open to/interested in establishing SERIOUS DATING relationships with BW that could lead to MARRIAGE), and recruit as many BW as possible to use this exclusive site.
*****If there’s a BW on this site who has the resources to implement these ideas, feel free to use them.
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This is SCARILY accurate! It reminds me EXACTLY of a guy that I’m interested in. Ugh, way way way too accurate.
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@Herneith
I couldn’t have put it better myself.
All this talk of alpha, beta etc is a load of bull. I guarantee, every man has alpha, beta, gamma, omega and every other greek alphabet qualities. It all depends on the environment we are placed. A man can be confident in one thing (alpha) and a pu$$y at another thing (beta.)
I find people that go on about this alpha beta c*** usually lack confidence and self esteem themselves.
2 words to them GROW SOME!!!
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It’s so much fun when everyone gets riled up! 🙂
laromana says,
It’s bittersweet to see data that confirms what MOST BW have been saying for a LONG time – in American society, BW ARE being subjected to ANTI-BW RACISM from MOST men of ALL RACES when it comes to DATING and MARRIAGE.
Don’t read too much into the data. The site caters to white professionals. If you were to go to a black or interracial dating site the result would be different. I actually found it interesting HOW WELL the BW fared.
After you control for ….sexual gluttony
And this is a problem..?
Not in a marriage but outside of one it might. Or are you of a different opinion?
I found it excessively shallow almost to the point of being meaningless.
Well, of course it is! It’s a Roissy post; they’re all like that.
By this definition, the local drug dealer or crack head can be an ‘alpha’ male as long as women are ‘flocking’ to them just as well as any politician or CEO of a company.
Yes, exactly. There don’t actually have to be that many alphas as they “get around” so much that they can wreak havoc even in small numbers.
What you are describing in essence are jackasses of the highest order who for whatever reason,(there are many) attract women by the bus load, trod on others and are abusive.
No, if he’s abusive he’s not an alpha. Being abusive is a sign of weakness. Same with jealousy.
A man who takes care of his family, is a faithful spouse,good father provides for, and defends them etc, would more than likely be an ‘alpha’ male if you stick to the models held by many other animal species that are social in nature.
Actually, no. He’d only be an alpha if he was “leading the pack”. Staying home with the wife and changing diapers does not an alpha male make, no matter how “alpha-like” he is in other aspects of his life.
Human alpha behaviour is a reproductive strategy. Everything else he does simply serves that strategy.
Same with betas. Why are married men (often betas) the most high-earning portion of the population? Because it benefits their families. As soon as they divorce their average income DROPS. Why do married men support feminism and argue for the increased protection of children and women? Because it benefits their families.
Then again, alpha males aren’t all bad, there’s certain people for everyone.
Of course they’re not necessarily bad just as alpha females aren’t necessarily promiscuous. It’s not about being good or bad, it’s about which type makes the best husband and father.
And I think we shouldn’t downplay conscious, rational choices in marriage partner selection. Most married people I know didn’t “fall in love on first sight” but rather they took a good long look at their partner and thought, “Hmm… This one has definite potential.” You are going to marry someone you have dated so it makes sense to only date someone you would marry.
Talking about “alphas” and “betas” may strike some as overly analytical (and we who do it tend to be mathematically-inclined and interested in game theory) but it is an effective way to discuss reproductive strategy.
There’s a reason they call economics “the dismal science”. It is dismal to reduce people to letters, numbers, percentages and leave out more subjective variables. But it is the only way to tease knowledge out of experiences. Everything else is merely anecdotal.
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What so special about Peter Norton? He’s rich?
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@Vindicator: “alpha”, “beta”, et al describe sociosexual confidence solely. I’m very confident at my job and in most social environments, and I’m intellectually confident, but I don’t go around assuming that I’m God’s gift to women. Hence, I’m “beta”. My “alpha”-level confidence in the other 90% of life is irrelevant to this fact.
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Right, Vindicator.
Every man has alpha, beta (and unfortunately) omega tendecies. No one fits perfectly in one box. (For instance, I initially fit B&G’s list perfectly yet I also fit some of Roissy’s “alpha” criteria as well).
But this is America, everything has to neatly fit in a category or else it ceases to make sense.
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@Cless Alvein:
I see. Still a load of bull!!!
Bit of advice to you all. Never believe most scientists when it comes to sex, history or politics (unless they the latter 2 happen to be political scientists or historians. Even then take what they say with a pinch of salt.)
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@black&German,
I usually agree with you, but on this occassion I think title for this post doesn’t suit, I’ll list the reasons.
1)style
You say the absence of swagger, but Brad Pitt has swagger, so does Matthew McConaughey, Robit De Niro, Mark Echo e.t.c. (sp) and they dig black women like crazy.
2)Line of work
erm, I work in IT and I’ll be honest with you, I would think twice before I date ANY man who worked in a technical field. I don’t care if he is black, white, orange or blue. Sorry but working around men in IT is one of the most tedious things in the world. Most are childish, obnoxious, mysogynistic social misfits, obsessive and with a HUGE inferiority complex when it comes to social issues and a HUGE superiority complex when it comes to women.
Besides, men of all employs find black women attractive and want us.
3)looks Again, I know tooo many drop dead gorgeous Italians, Swedes e.t.c. who crave black women, it’s their fantasy they have no idea how to approach and are scared that they cannot offer enough.
4)dating life Again, I simply cannot agree. Men from all works of life want black women, the playa’s the studs, the shy and retiring.
I cannot date a man who is too shy and retiring to ask me out. I don’t care what his colour is. You don’t have to be an alpha, omega, kappa, beta or micron man to be able to ask a woman out.
5)What he likes about you
Any decent man, alpha, omega, beta, whatever is attracted to a woman’s intelligence and personality.
6)What he likes to do in his free time
Seriously Black&German… NO.
Just no. I can’t agree. What about white men who are into music?. they like black women too. I just can’t agree with this list, it seems like you are stating men that you find attractive NOT men who like black women.
Again, as far as I can see all men WANT black women, the racist ones hate themselves for wanting black women that’s why they try to dehumanise us. Geeks are no different
7) His manner
erm again no. You seem to be implying that white men who are attracted to black women are the geeks or the ‘not obvious’ types and this simply isn’t true.
The type of white man you are describing seems to be some kind of misfit or grown baby or awkward stuck in adolescence man-child. This is not my experience at all.
8 ) Religion
I really don’t get how you’ve come to this conclusion.
9) Intelligence
Again, stupid, silly, intelligent, average white men like black women. I can’t see how you can make this deduction.
I’ve said this above and I’ll say it again. I don’t know any man who doesn’t WANT black women conciously or subconciously. Some hate themselves for wanting us because they’ve been told we are not supppose to be wanted. Some want us as their dirty little secret, some don’t care… they want us any way they can get us. Some, as we have witnessed on this very board can and will say the most racist things, yet still be angling to date us.
Some want us soo much they hate us for it, but even when they reject us, they will pay for their partners of other ethnicities to have surgery in order to ‘get’ our features.
We have always been too much for some. Our features are always added on to others to enhance them. Those who have bought into propaganda still want women with our features.
This list that you have produced isn’t about white men who like black women.
It’s a list of men who ALL WOMEN might have overlooked when growing up and who ‘might’ be considered good as adults.
(Now, please don’t torment me with chocolate cake B&G… please, I can’t take it [smile])
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re: Alpha males
I think this term has been manipulated and basterdised.
Let’s remember an alpha male is one who people follow.
Peter Norton is an Alpha Male
Just because he is a geek doesn’t make him an alpha male. He stands out in his field. He leads others follow.
Being an alpha male is NOT about having ‘swagger’ or being ‘cocky’ or being arrogant. That is so not it.
I am attracted to alpha males irrespective of the field they are in. NOT swaggerific metrosexuals, or cocky arrogant fools.
A road sweeper can be an alpha male, so can a shop keeper. These are men who have the capacity to lead, who are quietly confident and secure in themselves.
They don’t need to be muscle weilding, spend 24 hours in the gym, they don’t need tpo be buff, they don’t have to be drop dead gorgeous. They don’t have to have the biggest car, multiple businesses or money, that has nothing to do with being an alpha male.
Swagger does not equal alpha male and it’s a shame that the definition and meaning of alpha male is being hijacked by a lot of arrogant incomprehensible man-child men.
You want to see alpha men in action?. Go to a small village anywhere in the world and see a man who despite his lack of wealth and possessions people defer to.
See the men who advise presidents, see the men behind the missions, the men who don’t speak but let their actions talk.
Men who can avoid peer pressure. Men who create things (doesn’t have to be complex things). Men who see something isn’t working and fix it or get someone to fix it.
Men who admit that they don’t know how to do something but will find a way to make it work. Men who work at overcoming obstacles.
lol
I’ll stop there
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@soul:
I agree with a lot of what you said.
However even the terms “leaders” & “followers” can be simplistic. We are all leaders and followers depending on our environment. I follow my 5 martial arts masters and lead my comic book club. In the end what or whenever the situation calls for it you can either lead or follow.
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@soul: I’d be an alpha by your standard, then, but I’m not, in my own opinion, alpha at all. I don’t have a new girl in my life every month, and I couldn’t do so if I wanted to (and wanted to maintain high standards). Most women would consider me a “catch”, but I don’t tear up bars on a regular basis.
A lot of women try to redefine (or misinterpret) “alpha” to meet “the kind of guy that I like”. I’m glad you like a sort of man who is more sophisticated and evolved than the Roissy definition of “alpha”. However, most men, when say “alpha”, are using his definition. This is true even of those of us (like me) who are proud betas and have no aspirations toward alphatude.
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I agree with Soul and Vin,
Now that I think about, I’m a blend of alpha and beta traits. I’m far from obvious but I get attention EVERYWHERE I go. I never had a problem attracting nice looking women. It’s just that I’m not truly interested in 90 percent of them. I believe that I appear as shy but I’m extremely confident deep down. Weird, I know. But then again, that’s being human: not fitting into a neat, little box.
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LOL. That’s cute. But gamma is sometimes used to refer to omegas. Maybe we should just call them “high-betas” (Roissy calls them “greater betas”).
Hmmmm. Black and German don’t reference that disgusting misogynist’s website—I couldn’t even click on the link to look at his cr*p. lol.
I pulled Gamma out my a*s and then I goggled the term and although I understand that Gamma and Omega are negative terms, I still believe that Beta (high, low or middle) is also negative and does not fit in with the likes of a Peter Norton character. Betas , still want to be Alpha—traits that are prized and lauded by both men and women in this society and they are upset that they can’t get the same kind of action that Alphas get without even trying. Also Betas are by their very nature not prone to assertive behavior—like going and asking a woman out if they find her attractive—and they are very conventional and care waaaay too much about what people think. The same with Alphas but their charisma masks that.
So Peter Norton type who are rare to begin (its not about him being rich and powerful its him being intensely true to what fits him), have the assertiveness, idiosyncratic brilliance, does not care about social convention or what people think, has high Emotional Intelligence, and most importantly can operate within the bonds of a law abiding society with an independent high moral code. The unwieldy terms of Alpha and Beta are inadequate to describe these types of people. Delta, Theta, Epsilon—a new classification would be required.
On a side note, your modus oeprandi is effective to some extent for some women, but as you have stated on other threads, your attractiveness gives you far greater access to all types of Greek lettered men, due to your broad appeal. So you actually asking out a beta male is seen as a positive to them, because they didn’t have to put in the extra work to get your attention and it’s a boon to their over active entitlement complex that only beautiful/and or really pretty girls should ask or be asked by them. Again, their supposed counterpart would not have even got a second look from the proposed beta. But keeping you feet firmly on the ground and keeping your mystique, while vetting properly (with the head and emotional discernment) is great advice.
A 140 would usually constitute someone with high verbal AND nonverbal scores, which would result in a different personality. And if you get too high the pool is ridiculously small. It’s better to have a bigger pool and vet more intensely.
Yup got you—non-verbal and verbal domains, I believe still need to be relatively high in order to be open and less likely to discriminate based on race, although I would rate non-verbal acuity even higher coupled with high intuition and Emotional Intelligence.
********************************************
Sure you can see some bad stereotypes among WM/AF couples but there are many that don’t fall into that realm. I actually have met some Asian women who have complained about White male Asian fetishists but then end up dating and/or marrying white men
The numbers for Asian women are abnormally high compared to other racial groups, in which for the most part stick, with each other. I have heard Asian men rag on the women being plain or bordering ugly and that the implication is that White guys can’t really tell if she is very attractive within the Asian culture, as long as she is Asian. Still there is an underlying bitterness for Asian men, who would out marry more, especially those who are Second Third, Fourth generation America, to white women if, they were as abnormally receptive as Asian women are to White guys.
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@Cless Alvein…
Quite possibly.
Having a new girl in your life every month is not part of being an alpha male.
That attribute is more to do with being an undecided man-child or deciding that you don’t want to be a man and grow up.
Stop putting yourself and your attributes down. Stop buying into the false label of ‘alpha male’ that other insecure men have decided to create in order to hide their own insecurities and lack of direction.
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Arrghhhh.
@mynameismyname…
See this is th thing I don’t think is coming across properly when I’m typing.
Being an alpha male isn’t just about being viewed as ‘attractive’ looks wise to the opposite sex.
Jay Z is not a pretty boy, he is an alpha male.
Luther Vandross was a pretty boy, he was not an alpha male.
Rick James had the pick of multiple women, had money, he is not an alpha male.
Please remember that many people are re-defining labels in order to suit and cover their insecurities, don’t buy into it.
The other thing is.. alpha males seek alpha women. They tend to seek people who help them on their journey and to achieve their goals because alpha males are about building, making, creating for a particular benefit.
It’s not just about being showy or looking pretty to produce pretty offspring.
Also Alpha males are flawed like the rest of us.
Albert Einsteing was an alpha male.. he wasn’t pretty and he didn’t have it all worked out.
Being Alpha is can also be achieved and I really think it is a shame that their are a lot of people walking around who are allowing insecure people to disuade them from reaching alpha status.
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@Mayhue
This is part of what makes Peter Norton an alpha male.
So Peter Norton type who are rare to begin (its not about him being rich and powerful its him being intensely true to what fits him), have the assertiveness, idiosyncratic brilliance, does not care about social convention or what people think, has high Emotional Intelligence, and most importantly can operate within the bonds of a law abiding society with an independent high moral code. The unwieldy terms of Alpha and Beta are inadequate to describe these types of people. Delta, Theta, Epsilon—a new classification would be required.
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soul says:
@black&German,
I usually agree with you, but on this occassion I think title for this post doesn’t suit, I’ll list the reasons.
Black&Germann says,
Don’t read too much into the data. The site caters to white professionals. If you were to go to a black or interracial dating site the result would be different. I actually found it interesting HOW well BW fared.
laromana says,
soul,
Fantastic analysis of this post’s list. I thought I was the only one that disagreed with the generalizations being made about the type of WM who like BW.
I’d like to see more men who have the confidence of a Peter Norton (or other WM/NON-BM like him) when it comes to NOT BEING AFRAID to PURSUE BW, SERIOUSLY DATE BW, and MARRY them.
Although I won’t allow the ANTI-BW RACISM of American culture/American dating sites to lead me to give up on finding the type of man I want, it’s OBVIOUS that BW’s overall dating and marriage rates (HIGHEST SINGLENESS RATE in America) are being NEGATIVELY affected by ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that present us as LESS DESIRABLE/WORTHY OF BEING PURSUED for SERIOUS DATING & MARRIAGE than NON-BW.
BW will continue to face THE MOST OBSTACLES/NEGATIVITY/LOWEST LEVELS of SUCCESS in the dating/marriage arena until ALL MEN/OF EVERY RACE who TRULY want SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS with us ABANDON ANTI-BW RACISM and ANTI-BW COWARDICE in their attitudes/actions.
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@laroma…
I don’t care about what WM/Non black men are doing?.
If they don’t have confidence I don’t want them. Sorry, but I really don’t have patience for these type of things.
I know my value, I know my worth, I don’t need to look to far.. take a look around and see how badly other women are emulating my features in order to make them self attractive to WM and non black men.
If people hate you for no reason sometimes it’s cos they envy you..
When you have avowed racists decrying you yet physically desiring you, you know that’s because they hate you because they can’t stop wanting you.
I don’t care about these people. If I find myself around these people, I move away from them.
I simply don’t think I as a black woman face those things you have capitalised.
Those men are helping by singling themselves out as weak ass men. I don’t need them and don’t want to be around them.
Sorry I just don’t feel the way you do about issues. I don’t even agree that we face these obstacles. Maybe it’s how I’ve been brought up, maybe it’s my environment, maybe it’s my outlook I dunno.
I just can’t compute what you are saying.
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soul,
I’m not saying that ALL BW have/are facing the same experiences and I definitely respect that BW are individuals.
However, having grown up in America in a HIGHLY RACIST environment, I (and other BW who have/are living in similar environments) have DEFINITELY experienced the ANTI-BW RACISM/ANTI-BW COWARDICE in our relationships w/WM-NON-BM that I’ve mentioned. I’m glad that not ALL BW are facing this but this mindset is definitely REAL and has HISTORICALLY been a MAJOR part of how ALL BW are viewed in American culture/media/society.
Also, you’re misrepresenting what I’m trying to say if you think that I think less of my worth due to ANTI-BW RACISTS/COWARDS in America. I would NEVER allow ANYONE, regardless of race, to affect my self worth. I care about the way ALL BW are viewed/treated and until ANTI-BW RACISM is DESTROYED in American culture, the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW will not be respected as it SHOULD BE.
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I love it when people disagree because then the conversation goes on longer and everyone has to become more specific.
What so special about Peter Norton? He’s rich?
No, he just fits the description and Abagond likes to have a picture.
I don’t know any man who doesn’t WANT black women consciously or subconsciously.
Neither do I.
For clarification: my original list is for white men who MARRY black women. It has nothing to do with mere lust or physical attraction. Only legal marriage and legitimate fatherhood are being addressed. I only described the white men I, and many other black women, end up married to as that was Abagond’s original topic.
Soul:
Do you like pumpkin pie? With raisins and nuts?
I agree that men of all types can have “alpha male” traits but I still wouldn’t define them as alpha.
Alpha males have a specific reproductive strategy. It used to be that those other “alpha male traits” were necessary to follow this strategy but, due to the advent of welfare and birth control, pretty much any good-looking man (and even some not-so-good-looking men) can practice alpha strategy without the other traits. It’s simple to explain: the most superficial alpha traits are now sufficient to trigger a reaction in many women. Merely the appearance and behaviour of an alpha is now all that is necessary to be treated like one.
This is the unspoken reason for the breakdown of the black family. Welfare priced many lower-income black men out of the marriage market. Alpha behaviour is the clear alternative.
Now that I think about, I’m a blend of alpha and beta traits. I’m far from obvious but I get attention EVERYWHERE I go. I never had a problem attracting nice looking women. It’s just that I’m not truly interested in 90 percent of them. I believe that I appear as shy but I’m extremely confident deep down.
Being “beta” is not an insult. Being “alpha” is not a compliment. I am classic beta but we’re not discussing women here.
Most men are a blend of alpha and beta traits. And high betas are generally alpha except when it comes to reproductive strategy, which is why the line between the two is drawn there.
High betas are not exactly starving for a date (as my original list makes clear), rather they’re not sleeping around for the sole reason that they don’t want to. It’s not exactly difficult to “score” a woman nowadays. Pretty much anybody can get laid on a regular basis; it’s not much of an accomplishment.
Rather they’re picky and they’d rather concentrate on being #1 in other areas of their life in order to attract a high-beta mate rather than spend their time chasing lower quality women.
Remember, alpha behavior is very costly and risky. It distracts from your professional performance, saps your mental energy, puts your health at risk, and can lead to unwanted pregnancies. Any man who’s stuck paying child support after impregnating a woman he met in a bar can tell you all about that.
Hmmmm. Black and German don’t reference that disgusting misogynist’s website—I couldn’t even click on the link to look at his cr*p. lol.
Did your stomach turn at the thought? Yeah, he’s totally revolting. Although I must admit I have a certain fascination for revolting people. I suppose it’s the same thing that leads others to watch horror movies.
On a side note, your modus oeprandi is effective to some extent for some women, but as you have stated on other threads, your attractiveness gives you far greater access to all types of Greek lettered men, due to your broad appeal.
This is true, I admit. But for women like me it’s certainly an effective strategy.
Yes, high-beta males are usually only interested in the “best” women. But that’s a logical reaction. If you’re going to put all of your eggs into one basket you’d be wise to hold out for the absolute best basket you can get.
I would rate non-verbal acuity even higher coupled with high intuition and Emotional Intelligence
That is the ideal, I think.
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abagond you should do a post on why some white men are afraid of black women…lol!
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I would rate emotional intelligence higher than any other kind of intelligence, mathematical intelligence helps nothing in interpersonal relations, musical and verbal intelligence helps nothing either. What really helps is a healthy mix of interpersonal intelligence and intrapersonal intelligence. Intrapersonal intelligence allows you to know yourself and be aware of your needs and desires and acting accordingly to that without caring what others think of you. People who doesn’t cave in to social pressure and follow their own hearts and minds are great examples of high intrapersonal intelligence. Interpersonal intelligence allows you to have insights about people feelings, motives and concerns, this can lead to easier intimacy, support, and a long-term relation. Social awkwardness could be a trait of low interpersonal intelligence (tough not necessarily so) that can affect a relationship in the long term.
I think if your profession is art-related there’s a higher chance that you can have a higher intrapersonal or/and interpersonal intelligence because you are more in tune with your feelings.
I believe that this is about whether you care what other people think of you (sexual preferences,personal tastes, etc) (low intrapersonal intelligence) or not at all (high intrapersonal intelligence)
You can be a great mathematician, software developer or a painter and still be a jerk.
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black+german- What’s wrong with doctors? Don’t they have to have certain beta characteristics?
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@laroma..
I’m sorry, my intention was not to misrepresent you, I simply misunderstood you. My bad.
What I’m trying to say is this, America is by no means unique in it’s history of racism against black people and against black women. i mean I live in the place that schooled you people on how to do it LOL.
I grew up in a highly racist environment and I live in one, and I’m trying to say this…
Despite this, White men WANT black women soo much they hate themselves for it.
White men will purposely ignore you, push you, want to hit out at you for no damn reason other than they just ‘hate you.
I mean, who does that? If you don’t like someone you leave them alone. Some white men go so far to the extreme you know it’s something else.
They hope to completely break us in every sense of the word so that they can do what they want with us. They hate that we still have a fighting spirit and that we can and do reject them.
Many white men feel they have nothing to offer black women, they rule themselves out because they see themselves as weak and inferior by nature, so they go to extra ordinary lengths to prove their superiority.
I face this bullocks daily, and I don’t let it get to me. I work with a white dude who never talks to me directly in during office hours or when people are around; he tries so hard to make me look inefficient.
However once the office is empty he stumbles over his words around me, he always eagerly wishes me good night. t is one of the most childish things I’ve ever seen. He even went so far as to try to talk about his ex-wife with me (I don’t discuss personal relationships with ANYBODY at work). I’m not interested..
Yet, during the day he tries to undermine me. Eventually I simply asked him what his problem was. He didn’t have an answer so he started laughing hysterically.
I know what it is. He is intimidated, he has no idea how to talk to me: a successful, young black woman. He likes what he sees and it makes him revert back to childish behaviour.
I don’t suffer fools. So I don’t suffer him.
I’m sure you know that many weak men work by trying to reduce women or knock their self esteem in order to capture them.. This is what is happening in our day to day with white men.
I see it, i recognise it and I deal with it in my own way, but I will not keep on saying that WM see us as disgusting or ugly.. because it’s simply not true.
And I’m sorry but racist culture in America will never be destroyed. NEVER. It will also never be destroyed all over the world. It can be handled, better managed or made to appear ugly or not rewarded as it is now, but it will never be destroyed.
I have accepted that and that is what allows me to navigate my journey a heck of a lot more freely.
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To Soul:
i mean I live in the place that schooled you people on how to do it lol.
May I ask where you live them?
Despite this, White men WANT black women soo much they hate themselves for it.
Perhaps so in your home country.. but in my 48 years as a white male in the US, the number of white men seriously attracted to black women seems to be in the distinct minority. White men are like any other men, when the group is all guys the subject will invariably turn to women, and during these conservations, I hate to say it, but black women rarely come up. In general it’s not like they say black women are ugly, or evil, or ghetto, they just aren’t mentioned or if they are mentioned they aren’t the center of the conversation. In my life I’ve known three men white men who favored black women, two of them did eventually marry black women, but for the most part white guys are attracted to white women (well ok.. a pretty significant minority are attracted to Asian women).
However, I do notice things seems to be changing for the better among younger white males… I think they are more open to or at least contemplating dating black women. Similarly middle-aged men who’ve gone through divorce seem to be more open to dating black women. And of course the percentage of white guys like Robert Deniro, Peter Norton, Wolfgang Puck, who seemed to have always favored black women are increasing.
This is where I agree with Abagond that mass media has played some role. There have been so few roles on TV and in Movies for black women as viable partners although I have noticed in the past 5 years of so an increase in the number of black pair with non-black men both in ads and movies. (although there is still a dearth…)
As an aside the character Guinevere of the British Arthurian (Camelot) legend is currently played by a Black British actress (Angel Coulby) on the British TV show Merlin:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1076294/
So the British, at least, are weaving Black actors and actresses into distinctly British tales which historically were all white. (Also David Harwoord as Friar Tuck in the current British TV series “Robin Hood”)
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0362873/
As go the British, soon follows the US.
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hmmm…i’m multiracial (a lot of people would call me white over anything else, more would guess latino)…the only ones that apply to me are 8 & 9 & 5. People have told me I got swagger..lol. although i have seen this kind of pairing between married couples (all my long term significant relationships have been bw, never been married, im still young)
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Regarding bw physical beauty, I would say that there are many men attracted to them because of their physical characteristics, many have wide hips, full lips, (sometimes) above-average breast size, many are thick (but not fat), in biological terms that means that they are capable of bearing more children, are more than able to feed them and are more attractive to the opposite sex.
Now these are generalizations, I’m not saying that all bw have this traits but there are more of this body type than say… white women or asian women. I believe that you cannot change thousand of years of evolution and say that men prefer thinness over fullness (not obesity) and curviness this is hardwired in the human race. Many but not ALL desire this body type.
The thing is the media has brainwashed all in believing that being thin is desired over being thick that thick is a symbol of obesity perhaps? or unhealthiness while on the contrary is a symbol of better bone-to-fat-to-muscle radio in woman. (THAT IS MY OPINION.)
So girls, I think many WM like you and I bet they see you when you are looking the other way, they are just restrained by racism.
Having said that there are other traits that make Asian,White and latino women very attractive, just give the BW their due.
@soul..
this coworker really, really likes you, too bad he is too afraid to tell you something nice it’s childish but he’s afraid of how much he likes you.(it’s a self-defense mechanism in some men.)
This happened to me the first time I was attracted to a girl, she was very nice to me but I pushed her away and one time I said some stupid things to her that made her feel very bad.
Unlike you I believe this will change eventually. please don’t grow discouraged. Have a nice weekend.
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@soul
‘And I’m sorry but racist culture in America will never be destroyed. NEVER it will also never be destroyed all over the world. It can be handled, better managed or made to appear ugly or not rewarded as it is now, but it will never be destroyed.
I have accepted that and that is what allows me to navigate my journey a heck of a lot more freely.’
Right you are Soul. My sentiments exactly!
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@sergio
I know. LOL. I’m a woman, I know when a man likes me and I have absolutely No interest in him. He could be green with yellow polka dots it would make absolutely no difference.
Why would I be discouraged? I don’t understand what you mean.
I don’t entertain wimps or weak men and you cannot start off playing some school yard nonsense with me. Not when dude is above the age of 30. This = EPIC FAIL.
I don’t find this behaviour endearing at all and there is no way in hell that a man can start off like this with me and ever hope for a chance. No way.
At this point, if this man ever made the mistake of growing a pair and approach me, I would firstly laugh in his face and secondly go straight to human resources. This is not endearing behaviour, it is sexual harrassment. You know, attempts to demoralise a colleague in the hopes you can break them down and then date them.
There are too many Men out there for me to be playing around with boys. (That’s just my feelings.) Like I said, I don’t suffer fools. I’ve been a woman long enough to know the score and as I’ve said in a previous thread, unfortunately I’ve encouterd this behaviour with white men many many times before.
Don’t get me wrong, the regression to childhood tactics is common amongst all men but with white men it always seems a little bit more because of the power dimension and how far they take it to and how much in denial they are.
Like I said, sometimes it’s that little guilty secret which they never tell anyone, they hate themselves for wanting black women so they hate us even more for being the object of their desire. It’s like an uncontrollable, unspeakable urge/crave which many know they will never fulfill and therefore they ‘act out’
That’s why I don’t debate this point at all with people. I know.
There is nothing for me to be discouraged about, I know that as a black woman , I am part of a group of the most desired women on earth, so much so that people hate us for not being able to date us. People will kill us to get us. They’ve been doing it since the dawn of time. I mean look at how much white men hated us during slavery yet they couldn’t keep away.
Even when they classified us as less than human, they still couldn’t keep away. They never talked about us as desirable, we wouldn’t come up in conversation, but they would still come to us, they still desired us.
To this day, many white women hate us because of this. This is why I’m saddened when some BW think or believe the crazy notion that is being spread around that we are not enough.
Sergio, I know who I am. I know my value. I don’t even sweat that crap and I don’t even enter the trap of trying to debate it.
@soul..
this coworker really, really likes you, too bad he is too afraid to tell you something nice it’s childish but he’s afraid of how much he likes you.(it’s a self-defense mechanism in some men.)
This happened to me the first time I was attracted to a girl, she was very nice to me but I pushed her away and one time I said some stupid things to her that made her feel very bad.
Unlike you I believe this will change eventually. please don’t grow discouraged. Have a nice weekend.
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Yes, high-beta males are usually only interested in the “best” women. But that’s a logical reaction. If you’re going to put all of your eggs into one basket you’d be wise to hold out for the absolute best basket you can get.
I know we are discussing what types of men go against the grain, but I think it’s a*s backwards to expect the best when you are not putting forth the effort and/or not offering high caliber traits yourself. That is where beta’s, in this discussion, fail to do and the entitlement and arrogant expectancy that they should get the best because they deem themselves the nice, stable, marriageable guy is why they remain wedded to some unattainable female ideal and why they are willing to sit through endless winters.
Also, you stated you are beta, but I would think that since you were assertive with your husband, that illustrates distinctly different traits to the more passive beta. I will clarify that I don’t think your husband is Beta either and that there is cultural aspect, that you have discussed before, as well as his disposition that made him different. Still, you are their physical ideal. Thus, I think my original observation is correct, Betas want high status females, even if they may not have what it takes to acquire them, and since the Supposed Alpha are the perennial bad boys of the alphabet, they are resentful that they are not being noticed, but they fail to notice their counterparts and frequently believe that they are beneath them. I am sure you know of some pot bellied, Asbergeresque hacker and World of War Craft geek who knows that a Megan Fox or A-Rai clone is bond to make the first move.
***********************************
This is part of what makes Peter Norton an alpha male.
Soul, I am reluctant to assign Alpha status to a Peter Norton Type because I don’t think it fits—flouting certain medieval, racist, and destructive aspects of social conditioning puts him above status conscious and conventional Alphas and Betas. I do agree with B&G that Alpha traits are for the most part, negative and are not something to aspire to. You can be strong, a leader and a decent human being without being rapacious and sexually indiscriminant. Donald Trump and Bernie Madoff aptly illustrate deviant ego driven narcissism and destructive Alpha traits on a large scale. People like Dali Lama and Einstein, are more evolved then Alpha or beta and would fall under a different classification.
People who doesn’t cave in to social pressure and follow their own hearts and minds are great examples of high intrapersonal intelligence. Interpersonal intelligence allows you to have insights about people feelings, motives and concerns, this can lead to easier intimacy, support, and a long-term relation.
Yuppers. Agree with this. IQ can be limiting but an innate curiosity of people, creativity, and being open to possibilities takes a certain level of innate and acquired intelligence. Big ups to Gardner.
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@soul
Well…. I imagine that this guy doesn’t respect your work, your education, your credentials, he only sees a bw, and besides he gives you a hard time, that makes a less than desirable working environment. that’s what I meant about not getting discouraged. You know who you are and you are proud of it, you have stated that clearly. In no way I intended to be patronizing
I think that one has to prove himself before giving an opinion regarding a person.
I don’t believe in labeling an entire ethnic group based on a persons’ experience.
There must be many wm that are not racist you just have to find them in the right place.
If you were to find some wm that doesn’t seem racist you might as well give him a chance until proven wrong.
Call me naive but that’s how I think.
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@B&G and Mayhue
Again I disagree (his is getting interesting)
THe problem here is we are trying to ascribe new values onto what is considered an alpha male.
At it’s most basic and orginal level, Alpha males are those who people follow, this then gives them first dibs on the females within a goup.
Let’s remember that this is a dfinition which was initially used to describe lower animal behaviour and was than transposed to try to define human behaviour.
Peter Norton, thus does fit the profile of an alpha male. He is a leader. People follow him, his leadership status amd intelligent have allowed him to exploit a particular commodity in our current society… money. this gives him opportunity to chose his woman and no doubt many have offered themselves to him.
Alpha males have under any incarnation have never had to be pretty boys, the requirement has been strentgh and and an ability to protect and fight for the community.
In todays world strength is no longer simply a function of your muscles or your size because in todays world.. knowledge is strength.
Again this is why Norton is completely an alpha male.
He has modern day strength (knowledge) which has made him a leader and successful in his field. which guarentees him premium choice in females. his knowledge means he can protect his community.
Again, looks have never been a barometer for what constitutes an alpha male. ytes during mate men show off their looks but it has always been about showing strength.
I agree that men of all types can have “alpha male” traits but I still wouldn’t define them as alpha.
Alpha males have a specific reproductive strategy. It used to be that those other “alpha male traits” were necessary to follow this strategy but, due to the advent of welfare and birth control, pretty much any good-looking man (and even some not-so-good-looking men) can practice alpha strategy without the other traits. It’s simple to explain: the most superficial alpha traits are now sufficient to trigger a reaction in many women. Merely the appearance and behaviour of an alpha is now all that is necessary to be treated like one.
This is the unspoken reason for the breakdown of the black family. Welfare priced many lower-income black men out of the marriage market. Alpha behaviour is the clear alternative
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Sorry if someone else has pointed this out, I didn’t read the comments. But what most stuck me about this article was how similar this ideal man for black women is to the typical Nice Guy(tm). It makes me wonder how much the idea that these kind of guys are perfect for black women has to do with that.
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@B&G…
p.s. no more cake for me, I’m back in the gym, gotta work on that summer body now.
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Rare I am. Like a fine wine, or a bad cheese.
— PN
PS: Thankfully, the photo with this post does actually show my lovely wife, Gwen. Some other photos on the web that say they are of Gwen and I, but actually show one of our dinner guests, a talented artist (who incidentally also is married to a talented white guy.
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This is the best Abagond thread ever!
he likes what he sees and it makes him revert back to childish behaviour.
I notice this as well, at least in Europe. They’re sort of obsessed with us. It reminds me of little boys chasing girls on the playground just to push them in the mud.
There was a Brit (maybe it’s a British thing?) at my work who loved to argue with me about EVERYTHING. He’d invariable play devils-advocate and pick the opposite side as me. It drove me crazy until (dumb-as-a-brick as I am) I finally realized that he was picking fights just to get attention from me. I didn’t notice him otherwise so, in his desperation, he’d invariable come up with something to fight about; usually some sort of xenophobic bull.
So the British, at least, are weaving Black actors and actresses into distinctly British tales which historically were all white.
Or including them in movies and tv-shows where their race is never mentioned and not part of the plot.
Example: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0425413/
I think if your profession is art-related there’s a higher chance that you can have a higher intrapersonal or/and interpersonal intelligence because you are more in tune with your feelings.
Yes, and someone in an art or music field would have high nonverbal IQ. Visual-spatial perception is high in artists.
You can be a great mathematician, software developer or a painter and still be a jerk.
Yeah, you can be. That’s what the vetting is for.
black+german- What’s wrong with doctors? Don’t they have to have certain beta characteristics?
Oh, my. Doctors are a hard one to give up.
Dated a doctor once; a cardiothoracic surgeon, to be exact (ooh, isn’t that glamorous!). He was cute, too, although I’m not partial to blonds. But, MAN do they have sucky work schedules. And alpha females fawn all over them. No doctors please.
Maybe a podiatrist or a dermatologist.
Lawyers are okay as long as they’re drones. Maybe something in mid-level corporate law.
Also, you stated you are beta, but I would think that since you were assertive with your husband, that illustrates distinctly different traits to the more passive beta. I will clarify that I don’t think your husband is Beta either and that there is cultural aspect, that you have discussed before, as well as his disposition that made him different
I’m beta in my reproductive strategy but I have a lot of alpha-female traits (I’m a former cheerleader, for goodness sake!). I’m outgoing, chatty, and assertive. I just made a conscious decision about what kind of life I want to lead and then went about doing it. That’s how I do everything.
As far as my husband, he’s totally beta. He’s assertive in everything else but not in dating. He did ask me out first but it was so vague I didn’t even notice: “So, I guess I’ll be seeing you…” I just said, “Yeah, see you around. Bye!” and left. He told me later that that was just supposed to be the opening line and he was flabbergasted when I just walked off and out the door. LOL! Dude, just come out and say it.
There are alpha German men but it’s a pretty pathetic strategy over there. The best women won’t give them the time of day and they end up with Eurotrash.
What I find astounding is how successful these PUA are over here. American women seem to be suckers for a sweet-talker. German women would say, “That’s nice and all but… show me don’t tell me.”
I am sure you know of some pot bellied, Asbergeresque hacker and World of War Craft geek who knows that a Megan Fox or A-Rai clone is bond to make the first move.
LOL! Actually I know PLENTY of guys like that. But I wouldn’t put them into the high-beta category. They’re just low-beta wanna-be’s and delusional. They’re probably closer to omegas than anything else. I’ve had stalkers like that. Ugh. Those guys are gross.
But what most stuck me about this article was how similar this ideal man for black women is to the typical Nice Guy(tm).
Yeah, they’re nice guys. But they’re sort-of the “cream of the nice guys”.
p.s. no more cake for me, I’m back in the gym, gotta work on that summer body now.
LOL! Wimp. Just run a few extra laps.
That’s very Anglo of you. Join me on a Continental diet: eat whatever you want in small quantities. It’s cinnamon-raisin bread today. Mmm…
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@B&G…
The brits call it ‘winding you up’ it is extremely passive aggressive behaviour.
It works like this, they say something offensive anything, and then when you get angry they laugh and say
‘hhaaaa haaa! the jokes on you I was simply trying to get on your nerves and you fell for it haa haa.. stop being soo sensitive’.
Seriously. They do this. it’s a national past-time.
Oh and hmmph. Look, it’s all well & good eating a continental diet, if you live on the continent and can live a continental lifestyle. lol. I’m trying to preserve my sexaaaaaay lol.
You know how we do 🙂
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Soul,
Where do you live? Because …in the US, it’s Fall! Summertime won’t greet us for another seven months!
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Why do you think I’m out walking the streets? LOL! You’ve got to walk after eating that last piece of dark chocolate.
Girl, forget preserving. I’m just trying to bring sexaaaaaay back!
I lost it after the second kid and I’m nibbling fatty cheese back to a size 8. LOL!
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Mynameismyname:
That’s typical male for you. It takes those seven months to get back to sexay. LOL!
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@mynameismyname…
Yep, and summer work starts in winter/fall.
lol.
Winter is the devil, it encourages hibernation and couchpotatoedness lol. I’m not falling for that this time around.
@B&G honey I was in the gym at 8:30am this morning. I’m telling you.. it’s on and popping.
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p.s.
if that was really Petter Norotn at 75, then weigh in. How do you define alpha males?
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Winter is the devil, it encourages hibernation and couchpotatoedness lol. I’m not falling for that this time around.
@B&G honey I was in the gym at 8:30am this morning. I’m telling you.. it’s on and popping.
Good for you! I’ve joined a pilates class at my gym but it’s a bitch. I’m so sore for days afterward that I can barely move, much less work out. I’m determined to stick to it, though. I figure if it’s that painful it must be good for me. I’ve lost a lot of weight but now I need to tone. LOL!
We need to buy a treadmill. It’s pitch dark out here in the morning when I jog now. But a good one costs an arm and a leg.
Oh, winter is the WORST! Absolutely. I’ll probably hit an 8 around January and then I’ll struggle not to gain it all back before April hits. Ugh.
Whereas my husband (typical male) will skip a meal and lose 10 pounds. That just sucks. LOL!
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@Sergio
I didn’t think you were patronising me at all. re: respect… I know he doesn’t. But he is not the only one lol.
I’m trying to tell you that, the notion of discouragement doesn’t enter my brain over this, (sometimes frustration a lot of irritation , definitely.) I can’t get discouraged by this, not at this level and this stage in my life. I think you don;t understand the survival skill it takes not just black women but black people to get by, in a racist society.
This is not an oddity, for many of us it is the norm, daily life, the ‘beautiful struggle’.
I have never worked in a ‘desireable environment’ and it is a false sense of security to expect it. That’s a luxury black people cannot afford.
See it’s simple things like this in life, which white people take for granted (I don’t begrude them that) but we black folk simply can’t. To do that would be emotional suicide.
There’s always one bigot and that’s all it takes to poison the chalice.
You can be getting along fine with everyone, a new person comes along and starts doing racist crap and for some reason most or all of the white people seem to fall back in line to that comfortable position of viewing you through a prism.
‘safe work env’s’ for black people rarely happens or you have to be soo deaf to racist ‘dog whistles’ or think of yourself as the ‘magic negro’, the rare oddity.
I’m sure there are some WM who are not racist, but why must I seek them out, why must I go on a hunting mission to find them?, especially when I have no real interest.
Life is complicated enough without adding some whole other ish to it. Besides, I’m just not attracted to white men in that way.
The onus is not on me the black person to prove that wm aren’t racist or can’t be racist… the onus is on white men to prove that they are not part of their cultural superiority group think. The onus is on them to prove that they are not.
I’m not here to seek white men,like I said.. I’m on this thread because as far as I am concerned and through out history there isn’t a specific type of white man that likes black women… they are all types.
p.s. I have nothing against interracial relationships, I presume those people have worked out their issues or chosen not to.. it’s up to them.
I also have no problem with black women who specifially seek white men.. again..that’s up to them.
The only issue I’ve ever had is with racist WM who seek black women but then still want to cling to their racism and stereotypes.. who will argue blindly about black people, their history and culture rather than listen to us black people who have lived it and know better.
You see it even on this board! white men who denounce black women, denounce black people in general and then after all that, they tell u they are dating a black person lol.
White men who tell black women we are not desirable who then turn around and want to date us. lol. silly dudes.
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[…] 10, 2009 by Cless Alvein This is a continuation of discussion at Abagond’s blog: why is it so uncommon for white men to marry black women? Why do black […]
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but I have a lot of alpha-female traits (I’m a former cheerleader, for goodness sake!). I’m outgoing, chatty, and assertive. I just made a conscious decision about what kind of life I want to lead and then went about doing it. That’s how I do everything.
Shocking! Tsk tsk tsk, B&G lol. Trying to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing—but the red dress is peaking through. I knew you couldn’t possibly be passive—with the batting your eyes and being oh so coy, which bears out my claim that your broad physical appeal makes you completely invulnerable to beta rejection because you are exactly what they and a lot of men are looking for. You are just more practical.
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THe problem here is we are trying to ascribe new values onto what is considered an alpha male.
At it’s most basic and orginal level, Alpha males are those who people follow, this then gives them first dibs on the females within a goup.
Let’s remember that this is a dfinition which was initially used to describe lower animal behaviour and was than transposed to try to define human behaviour.
Peter Norton, thus does fit the profile of an alpha male. He is a leader. People follow him, his leadership status amd intelligent have allowed him to exploit a particular commodity in our current society… money. this gives him opportunity to chose his woman and no doubt many have offered themselves to him.
Alpha males have under any incarnation have never had to be pretty boys, the requirement has been strentgh and and an ability to protect and fight for the community.
In todays world strength is no longer simply a function of your muscles or your size because in todays world.. knowledge is strength.
Again this is why Norton is completely an alpha male.
He has modern day strength (knowledge) which has made him a leader and successful in his field. which guarentees him premium choice in females. his knowledge means he can protect his community.
Again, looks have never been a barometer for what constitutes an alpha male. ytes during mate men show off their looks but it has always been about showing strength.
Well soul, I suppose I am in the minority in this thread, although I think Henerith has echoed some of my concerns upthread. I am truthfully unconvinced of the Alpha-Omega delineation to ascribe and explain human male behavior, which is why I tend to believe that it is difficult to categorize extreme and unusual types such as Peter Norton. Another weird oddity is Roland Betts, a true American blueblood with net worth skirting the Billionaire mark and who has given countless monetary endorsements to the George Bush campaign. He is a Yaleys as well. And his type more than anything else would usually stick to Blond blue eyed or high Born Asian women, but he married an averagely attractive Black women and they have been together 38+ years. Both men in this discussion also, eschewed the model thin and or model beautiful look as well. Both women although comely are not blazing hot raving beauties which once again show that they are factoring in other characteristics besides physical attractiveness. Again—another rare move.
So for hard striving, moderately attractive, and above average Black women to be open to marriage minded individuals who won’t cast her into the pit of ghetto hell, he has to be extremely unusual and immune to social disapproval. He has to be assertive and open by default—characteristics which many non-Black men simply do not have and do not have any desire to cultivate.
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It’s funny my ex is the opposite of this.
My Ex
-Athlete, plays lacrosse and football
-Very handsome, was tall with brown hair and blue eyes
-Intelligent, top of our high school class
-Alpha male
-He actually approached me.
I’m Dominican, Jamaican, and Puerto Rican, I’m dark skinned, short with natural hair.I have an hourglass body shape and I’m not preppy at all nor did I hang with preppy people. But somehow me and him got together. It wasn’t a good relationship, he turned out to be an abusive douchbag to me. We broke up a week before our high school prom and he ended up taking some random Salvadorean chick.
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@mayhue..
Actually I think you and I agree.
I’m trying to say that people are re-classifying the delination to suit their own needs.
The delination wasn;t for humans anyway, it was mostly to explain animals.
but you have to understand, peter Norton is not extreme to me, his a geek who made it and if we are to use this outmoded delination.. he would be an alpha male.
So saying white Alpha males don’t find black women attractive is kinda crazy to me.
It seems that a high percentage of white alpha males seek black women.
Could it be because black women were regarded as alpha females and they ae looking to form an alpha couple?.
I don’t know, I don’t like the whole categorisation any damn way lol.
But my whole ethose/point is this: all types of white men like black women. it does seem though that really rich and powerful white men tend to marry black women in higher numbers than their poorer counterparts. maybe they know something these other less privileged white men don’t know?
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soul says,
The only issue I’ve ever had is with racist WM who seek black women but then still want to cling to their racism and stereotypes.. who will argue blindly about black people, their history and culture rather than listen to us black people who have lived it and know better.
You see it even on this board! white men who denounce black women, denounce black people in general and then after all that, they tell u they are dating a black person lol.
White men who tell black women we are not desirable who then turn around and want to date us. lol. silly dudes.
laromana says,
I agree with you completely. It THESE type of WM that I am condemning when I use the terms ANTI-BW RACISTS or ANTI-BW COWARDS. I have NOTHING but CONTEMPT for them.
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@mayhue
Yes. I agree. Which is why I really feel for those who are actively looking at white men as the only solution for them. Because the type of white man that any black woman should consider giving the time of day to, should have those characteristics and not many do because their survival doesn’t depend on it, they don’t have to worry about it, it is not within their consciousness.
That’s why when WM without that conscious date black women they are simply toying around with them.
So for hard striving, moderately attractive, and above average Black women to be open to marriage minded individuals who won’t cast her into the pit of ghetto hell, he has to be extremely unusual and immune to social disapproval. He has to be assertive and open by default—characteristics which many non-Black men simply do not have and do not have any desire to cultivate.
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@ramblinrick:
Yes, it’s the same person.
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Shocking! Tsk tsk tsk, B&G lol.
LOL. Okay, I’ve been outed.
It wasn’t a good relationship, he turned out to be an abusive douchbag to me.
Well, yes. I’ve made the mistake of dating guys like that. But I didn’t marry them. That’s the topic: marriage. Abagond left that out but it was the focus of my original post.
I just wish she could realize there are white men of a ‘lower’ class
Rick, if you notice, I didn’t mention “class” anywhere in my original list as it is irrelevant in this context. And the definition of “high-paid drone” would of course be different for different economic segments (and I just checked: I mentioned union workers!).
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Black and German-I was wondering if you could give me some advice/feedback.I am currently in college and will study abroad on germany next year. I also plan to live there once I am done with school. I am in love with german culture. I am mixed a black woman. I have waist length wavy black hair, grey blue eyes. I am 5 ft1 with a very small waist and 32dd bra size. I am also very slim but curvy. I am size 6. I learning german and I plan to be fluent in it. I also speak italian french and spanish. I love opera, classical music, art, ballet, films, and horse back ridding. I am 21 years old and still a virgin. I plan to remain one until I marry. I know very old fashioned. How would I be treated by Germans? Would I encounter a lot of racism from germans? I would like to marry a german man because they posses alot of qualities that that I am looking for. Would german find someone that looks like me attractive and marriage material?
I know that’s a lot of info but your advice would be greatly appreciated. Its rare that I come in contact with a mixed black american woman who is married to a german man and familar with german culture. Like I stated before any advice/info you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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In Germany big business there seems to care a lot more about their employees, more than they do here. It seems to me greed is not the driving force there. but, like I said, I have never been there.
It’s a different cultural climate. They don’t care as much about stocks and quarterly results. More of the businesses are private so they don’t have the same performance drive. Private business (regardless of origin country) tend to be more employee-oriented in general.
I think the yardstick used to measure performance is different there. Managers aren’t admired unless their workers are happy and loyal, no matter how much shareholder value they produce. And the true goal of managers is to be admired, not to be rich, because to be hated would pull them down the social ladder. In America, they are only admired for their wealth.
But I must say: I think the biggest difference is in the fact that most German businesses are small to medium sized and private. I’ve worked at such companies here and found them more enjoyable and employee-oriented than the German multinational that I used to work at over there.
Some American companies are really great and some German companies are really crappy. My husband worked for a German company that treated him like a slave (despite a union) and now he works for a very relaxed, family-oriented company with generous benefits and bonuses (and no union).
Sorry so long but I hope I answered your question.
How would I be treated by Germans? Would I encounter a lot of racism from germans? I would like to marry a german man because they posses alot of qualities that that I am looking for. Would german find someone that looks like me attractive and marriage material?
Is this a joke?
Sorry if you are serious but this post had me laughing. Are you kidding?
My advice: bring a baseball bat. Perhaps a metal one to be on the safe side (safety first, you know). When they mob you on the street it’s not necessary to beat them, usually just displaying the bat and explaining calmly that you know how to use it will keep them at a distance.
Okay: I’m drunk. Dug up a bottle of Riesling — yeah! (sorry about any typos). But, really; this post was too funny.
Go to Germany, girl. No, they won’t be racist. Pretty young American girls are exempted from that. Just don’t let them get you alone because German boys don’t really get the whole “virginity until marriage” stuff and you will just confuse them. And if you go on a date with one and he spends the whole time staring at you just sort of smack him over the head. That usually wakes them up again.
Do you have a “black woman’s behind”? If you do, be ready to be worshiped. Although a German man’s idea of worshiping is to stare at you in shocked silence while their eyes slowly fall out of their head.
LOL! You are too cute. That made my day.
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That was really great. I’m still laughing.
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lol black+ german: I assure you I am 100% real
Thanks for the advice. You helped me calm my fears.
*L-O-L. I am being quite serious.
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mynameismyname said:
“But this is America, everything has to neatly fit in a category or else it ceases to make sense.”
You got that right.
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It was my fault for not making it clear earlier, but this post is only about white men who will SERIOUSLY DATE AND MARRY black women.
White men who use black women (a la Roissy) or who are unwilling to date them for whatever reason are not the subject of this post – except maybe by way of contrast.
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@Ramblinrick
I stopped reading at this point..
I could give a s*^t less who she dates, or whatever. My life is not in such perfect order, that all I have to do is worry about what someone else is doing
If you that’s the case, then why even bother wishing that she think anything at all.
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soul,
What you are suggesting is that the onus is on ERZ to seek out those rare people,
I am NOT suggesting she seek out anyone. It is none of my business who she likes or dislikes. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. There are a lot of things posted here I do not agree with, but I do try to understand where the person is coming from, and that’s all I ask. I don’t mean to seem uncaring, that’s not my point at all. Simply, how people choose to live their lives is none of my business.
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@ramblingrick..
I’m gonna just end this, because you keep engaging and then ending on a flippant note..
Which doesn;t leave for anything else.
so cool.
I get it. you wish EZR could see things differently, but you don;’t want to change her mind. cool.
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ramblinrick said:
“I think the person laromana is talking about is the same person that is constantly changing horses in mid stream. One day this person refers th black women as ghetto, and complainers. The next day he says he is dating a black women.”
Just say my name and quit beating around the bush.
I never said I was dating a black woman. I said I befriended one through a dating site. She lives 15 minutes from me here in Akron. I don’t plan on dating her, at least not at this time.
And no, I don’t plan on f^cking her either. It’s just casual friendship.
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I don’t recall anyone saying anything about f^cking anyone. I certainly didn’t.
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One more thing:
Someone (name____________) says they are dating a french white man, but hates American white men. How can you date a Caucasian man from another country and denounce ALL Caucasian men from another?
Wouldn’t it be the same as me saying, I love British black women but I HATE and despise ALL American black women?
I understand to hate some, but all? And to place ALL in the same box when you have no bit of knowledge of every white man in America?
That seems pretty damn hypocritical!
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Rick:
I didn’t say YOU said that, I was saying that in case others may entertain that thought since I said I will not date her at this time.
My apologies.
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I’m sorry you feel that way.
Side note: It’s Amerikkka, not Amerika or Amerikka since you were trying to expound on that.
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The more you think about what American white men are doing, the shorter your lifespan becomes.
Why do you care what American white men are doing or saying when most don’t really care about you anyway? If they don’t care then why should you?
Put some more focus and energy into positive things. Believe me your blood pressure may lower significantly as well as your chances of a brain hemorrhage and heart attack.
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“Yes it IS Amerikkka because you people never did get rid of the Ku Klux Klan, instead you allow them to work in the white house.”
Ku Klux Klan has their rights to show what they do. This country is built upon freedom of expression. I do not support them and everything they stand for.
I could ask blacks to get rid of the Crips & Bloods since it also kills so much innocence. Albeit, The KKK is about public disdain towards blacks as well as supporting white supremecy and purity. I wouldn’t think of them (today) as being as violent as gangs.
Hell, I could be wrong.
In other words, quit worrying about what the KKK is doing. Hell, I don’t even worry about them. I hardly know if they really exist anymore.
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I’m not messing with you, your just paranoid. I have a right (within guidelines) to be here as well.
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I never said the KKK wasn’t dangerous. Yes they are evil. I hate them and everything they stand for.
I’m saying they have a right to do what they do without the violence. It’s when physical violence goes too far.
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what about that guy matt stone and his wife?
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http://blackgirlsrockit.typepad.com/.a/6a010535f582e8970b010536521055970c-800wi
i was kinda surprised when i found out creator of s.park was married to a bw…
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abagond, are you lurking in the shadows?
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They did not consider them good enough because they did not want black children.
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ramblinrick,
I want to clarify that, for me, it’s not SOLELY the age issue because, today, being in your 40’s is NOT considered OLD.
It’s the combination of being an OLDER American WM/NON-BM (I include SOME WM/NON-BM in their late 30’s in this group based on their ANTI-BW mindset) who REJECTED BW (as being “lesser 2nd class/not human women”) for SERIOUS relationships or MARRIAGE and THEN SUDDENLY deciding to show interest in BW AFTER being MARRIED TO/HAVING CHILDREN with WW/OTHER NON-BW that I truly DETEST.
If a WM/NON-BM (REGARDLESS of AGE)has ALWAYS treated BW with the SAME RESPECT he treats NON-BW and considers them EQUALLY for SERIOUS DATING RELATIONSHIPS and MARRIAGE (including 1st marriages), then I don’t view him with CONTEMPT/DISTRUST if he shows interest in BW.
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Yes, laromana, that is exactly on-point. We don’t want to be second-pickings.
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but you have to understand, peter Norton is not extreme to me, his a geek who made it and if we are to use this outmoded delination.. he would be an alpha male.
So saying white Alpha males don’t find black women attractive is kinda crazy to me.
It seems that a high percentage of white alpha males seek black women.
Could it be because black women were regarded as alpha females and they ae looking to form an alpha couple?.
I don’t know, I don’t like the whole categorisation any damn way lol.
But my whole ethose/point is this: all types of white men like black women. it does seem though that really rich and powerful white men tend to marry black women in higher numbers than their poorer counterparts. maybe they know something these other less privileged white men don’t know?
Soul—
I do think that a Peter Norton Type are still very extreme and quite rare. And I do agree that we are discussing a very high male ideal. I don’t think that Alpha is a suitable delineation but I do agree that the man has to be unusual, strong and completely immune to social censure. Most White men buy into their own superiority mystique and they like the fact that they are at the top of food chain, whether they are conscious of it or not. Therefore they have their pick of White women within their own race and a host of willing, Asian, and Hispanics women, with some black women picking up the rear. So, what man within their right mind wouldn’t be picky about who is seen with, especially as White men created the racism and the social rules that run with this society? Therefore it makes perfect sense that since all eyes are on him; he must attempt to pick the best mate, which would reflect his social standing as that is high as possible and conforms to the image of being All American, white. Therefore many White men are conventional by default—and picking a Black woman who is already deemed as beneath him and grossly inferior looks wise and everything else would cause a problem whether he is rich or not.
The attraction for Black women no matter how beautiful, intelligent, and free of “baggage” would still be rated lower than an average White, Asian, or Hispanic woman. Middle and upper class black women and various Black women who don’t conform to the degenerate stereotypes have been here in America for generations, however for some reason they are automatically discounted and thus become completely invisible to non-Black men. Black Americans may have cultural differences to Whites, but for the most part we operate under the same American culture, yet Whites and other non Blacks, (and Black men too for that matter all those pliant Dominicans and Brazilians) can somehow struggle through the cultural miasma of all these supposedly vastly more good looking, non-obese, traditional women, yet somehow we are far more Alien then your first generation African, European or Asian or Hispanics woman.
I would also discount rich men being like Ronald Betts far more compliant than their poorer counterparts. Except if the woman is 20 years younger than him and is drop dead gorgeous. Just look at Wolfang Puck and a host of other supposedly rich men—whose wives are way younger than them. They wouldn’t have risked the trouble to marry a Black woman when they were younger but now that they are old and can’t attract the same kind of Asian or White women, somehow settling with a physically superior looking Black woman is the consolation prize and does up his virility, even if having money was the main draw for the woman.
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Mayhue says,
I would also discount rich men being like Ronald Betts far more compliant than their poorer counterparts. Except if the woman is 20 years younger than him and is drop dead gorgeous. Just look at Wolfang Puck and a host of other supposedly rich men—whose wives are way younger than them. They wouldn’t have risked the trouble to marry a Black woman when they were younger but now that they are old and can’t attract the same kind of Asian or White women, somehow settling with a physically superior looking Black woman is the consolation prize and does up his virility, even if having money was the main draw for the woman.
The attraction for Black women no matter how beautiful, intelligent, and free of “baggage” would still be rated lower than an average White, Asian, or Hispanic woman. Middle and upper class black women and various Black women who don’t conform to the degenerate stereotypes have been here in America for generations, however for some reason they are automatically discounted and thus become completely invisible to non-Black men.
laromana says,
Kudos on your on point analysis. We BW need to find a way to “recruit” (eg.for an EXCLUSIVE BW ONLY DATING SITE)the type of WM/NON-BM in the world who see us as VISIBLE,INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN BEINGS who are WORTHY of being pursued (as THEIR 1ST CHOICE) for SERIOUS DATING and MARRIAGE relationships
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I think we all can agree if you all had your black king and numerous amounts to choose from, we wouldn’t have to have these suffocating discussions.
Plus, racism wouldn’t be much of a factor when it comes to IR dating. Enough black women for black men and enough black men for black women.
End of discussion.
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The only time I see whites get along well with blacks is in the morgue, its quiet and nobody is arguing in there.
That was funny. I had to laugh when I read that.
Maximus, that sounds like sour grapes.
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Well, am I right?
Just a weeeeeeeeee lil bit?
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There have ALWAYS been BW who PREFER WM/NON-BM and there PREFERENCE has NOTHING to do with the “AVAILABILITY/NON-AVAILABILITY of BM”.
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Just a weeeeeeeeee lil bit?
Depends on the woman. I’m an equal-opportunity dater (or I was, at any rate). Most of the guys I dated were white but I wouldn’t have (and didn’t) ruled out others if they met my general standard.
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Maximus,
What are you saying, because there are so few black men, black women come here out of desperation seeking a white man? Where is Uncle Milton? I’m sure he has a link to prove or disprove this.
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Rick:
I have thought that for a while. I don’t know what started that. (Maybe the stereotype of black women being “loud” and complaining the white women were taking theirs.)
I would be glad to be proven wrong.
Do as you will…
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leigh204 Says:
Also, I have heard this comment directly from the Asian menfolk that I know: Loser, ugly white guys date/marry homely asian girls because their own doesn’t want them.
No. WM mostly date Asian women because they find them more attractive than WW. WM living in Asia pass over WW all the time and get with local women. I don’t think Asian men are likely to give an objective view on this topic.
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@snowflake:
snowflake Says:
leigh204 Says:
“Also, I have heard this comment directly from the Asian menfolk that I know: Loser, ugly white guys date/marry homely asian girls because their own doesn’t want them.
No. WM mostly date Asian women because they find them more attractive than WW. WM living in Asia pass over WW all the time and get with local women. I don’t think Asian men are likely to give an objective view on this topic.
Most WM would prefer to be with WW, not AW. However, there is a certain type of WM who go to live in Asia. They’re looking for some cheap thrills (sex tours). Some WM become ESL teachers teaching the local populace English while finding an Asian gf. Lastly, other WM look for AW in hopes of marrying them because they find modern Western women too independent/progressive for their liking. As for AM not likely to be objective, how can there be any kind of objectivity when that’s all they see around them?
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“White men chase asian women because they think asian women are submissive and easy to control.”
That’s insulting. I’m glad you can speak on behalf of all the WM/AW couples out there. I’ll chase an Asian woman because she is beautiful, not because I can control her.
Quit making your stupid @ss assumptions on what you think you know, or what your little mind insists upon the lies it is telling you. Get a grip and grow up!
….and take your medicine.
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@leigh:
However, these WM haven’t come across the strong AW…the ones that I know. And to the WM looking for AW: No, I’m not horny and, no, I will not love you long time.
ROTLMFAO!!!
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Sorry but the white-men-are-the-devil comments are turning me off a bit. There are plenty of true grievances that I don’t feel the need to create any.
Signed, My-husband-is-not-the-devil
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I am the devil.
Proof: Black&German: Is that you in your avatar?
I kid! I kid!
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Just because there are WM who have an Asian fetish or a Black fetish or whatever does not mean that that is the case in most of these relationships. I know plenty of WM/AW and WM/BW relationships where the men truly love and care for their wives.
The deviants are worthy of ridicule but not the others.
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@B&G:
I understand where you’re coming from…and you are also right…it’s too easy to generalize these relationships. The deviants are worthy of ridicule, that I agree. Let’s just say I’ve come across too many deviants.
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The deviants are just louder. Like the racists.
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I would argue that the bad wives are louder, as well. The good ones have all gone underground in disgust. I’m searching them out, one by one.
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Black&German Says:
Just because there are WM who have an Asian fetish or a Black fetish or whatever does not mean that that is the case in most of these relationships. I know plenty of WM/AW and WM/BW relationships where the men truly love and care for their wives.
The deviants are worthy of ridicule but not the others.
B&G,
I say thank you.
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I didn’t mean for this post to turn into another WM-hate-party. It’s getting old.
Ladies, you know I agree with you on a lot of things and I’m grateful I have a place to vent about the true racist experiences I have to deal with in my life. God knows there are enough of them. And they are real. I have to deal with that crap every day.
But this is going too far. I’m tired of reading it and you are starting to alienate the more moderate posters of this blog. Speaking amongst yourselves can become a very boring conversation.
Furthermore, tearing apart every comment someone makes to search it for “racist undertones” seems to be general American-style discourse and I find it disturbing. I see this in the political debates here where no one says anything of value; they just repeat the same old scripted bull they always have. Better to be dull than to say the wrong thing by accident. This kills frank conversation and drives off moderate posters (who are often inept in PC-speak).
Even if you think you’ve found a rule, there are always going to be exceptions out there. In fact, often there will be so many exceptions as to make the rule obsolete.
Believing that you know what someone is like simply based upon their race is… racist. Yes, even colored people can be racist. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and I will not judge them before they have proven to me with their actions and words that they are worthy of my contempt.
I am not naive about white people but I am not going to presume to see into their souls just because they’ve said the wrong thing once or even twice. We are all prejudiced in some way; that appears to be the human condition. Harboring a prejudiced does not make someone evil or a bad person. It makes them prejudiced. That is all.
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Nice post B&G!
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B&G,
Co-sign!
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For years the media and society has told us fetishists that our beauty is worthless,that our needs are to be ignored, whilst it puts the non-fetishists on a pedestal. Fetishists need love too!
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very strange reading this article, i guess it must be true in some aspects because it describes my bf almost to a tee, he is somewhat of a “nerd” i suppose, quirky intellectual , has very little swagger but is charming, he’s a computer programmer and non practicing Jew. he’s white and im black, interesting commentary!
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from my experience its can be the guys who are into black culture or have a lot of black friends that prefer to date black women. But actually in some cases those tyes of white guys don’t respect black women and just look at them as an object. from my experience its been the nice shy regular white guys that treat a black woman well.
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I read your article with interest because my boyfriend has a lot of the traits you described, except the IT geek/computer games part. But I should really emphasize that these racial problems are really only an issue in America. The rest of us in other countries do not see a race, we see a person. My Scandinavian boyfriend pursued me and race was never mentioned unless he was talking about how my very dark chocolate skin or my big butt made him wild! He does not care what anybody thinks of us and he laughs hysterically when people in other countries we visit react negatively to us. He is a multi-millionnaire (which I only learnt after we had been dating for a while) which negates the thinking that rich white men do not pursue black women because of social status. I am African born and raised, very dark, big butt, divorced mother of two black kids and interracial dating has worked for me. I am getting married in a few months too!! BUT I do admit that I had a semi-European upbringing and do not act very ghetto- whatever that means (as defined in your other post). So if you are a black woman attracted to men regardless of race, there are many out there in other countries dying to worship you. Don’t limit yourself to men who have been raised to look down on you; its really not their fault its their upbringing.
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I forgot to add that when I visited USA that was my first time to experience racism. But funnily enough I got more positive attention from white American men than black men! One black man was nice enough to say I was hot for a “dark-skin girl”!! The only thing I noticed about him was the bad grammar!! As for the white guys, my complexion was not an issue… But I think perhaps my foreign origin was obvious which made me more approachable??
I have just asked my Scandinavian boyfriend why black women in Northern Europe are pursued so much (they even make passes at me you in front of my man!), and his ridiculous answer was that they are subconciously trying to make sure their genes survive into a few more generations because their blond hair/blue eyes are a weak gene!!! So when they see dark skin and round “child-bearing” hips they can’t help themselves!!! Funny!
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angie. in my experience the blonde/pale guys (mainly from nordic countries) often go more black women, then so do many of the meditteranean ones. for some reason the imbetween white guys don’t normally go for black women as much. But sure some do.
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I am an attractive, intelligent and GOD FEARING womAn who would love to date a serious minded caucasion gentleman. Contact me for a picture and correspondence.
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anonymous says:
“from my experience its can be the guys who are into black culture or have a lot of black friends that prefer to date black women. But actually in some cases those tyes of white guys don’t respect black women and just look at them as an object. from my experience its been the nice shy regular white guys that treat a black woman well.”
im a white teen male who, by blacks around me at school, see me as a typical ‘white boy’. I have long hair, and dress different, and listen to ‘old music.’ [I guess it doesnt matter that my ‘old music’ is parliament, jimi, lenny white, miles davis, and john santos….]Ive been to schools with all races, and never get along with one side more than the other, white kids treat me the same way.
I guess i feel a bit more in touch with black culture because of where ive been raised, and what it is i do. Im a musician, and to be a musician of any sort really, but of funk and jazz especially, your idols and teachers are all black, along with the communities that create\sustain that music. I just dont have any interest in whats considered the “white culture” of america. I mean, im white, but i cant really define what white culture is. I think the idea of a communal unified culture becomes absent when you become detached from one another, which is why non whites in america maintain true culture, because theyre forced to. to survive and hold an identity. It means something. White culture doesnt mean anything to me.
Anyway, im not some sort of ‘weirdo’ who only likes black girls, but i do like them. It seems like more of a ‘social group’ thing when it comes to dating rather than just race taken into consideration with a lot of kids\young people today. What i mean is that, some of the girls in my school would probly date me if i cut my hair and started listening to the music they do, act a certain way, etc. in fact, i remember one girl told me she`d go out with me in a second if i cornrowed my hair lol. Its kinda funny now, buy when it happened, i was offended deeply. i mean, she was amazingly beautiful, but dumb as hell to say something so shallow. I think it shows that some people are afraid they need someone a certain way or they wont feel right, or their friends will make fun of them. but believe me, it goes both ways though. im not just sayin blacks do this to whites. I go for people i get along with. not neccasserily someone who shares all my interests, just someone i get along with. so anyway, thats my experience. ;]
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Interesting comment. Thank you.
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What’s wrong with long hair on a man? I love seeing long hair on a guy.
White girl here, but still…
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Being a slightly geeky person myself this ‘profile’ fits all the men I have ever dated, except for my ex (forgive me, I was young and naive-hormones ruled the day). As for intelligence…I have the serious hots for smart guys.
Long hair on men- thumbs up!
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Let’s see how many of these my SO fits, although he isn’t technically the “like black women” type; he doesn’t have a strong preference for any race or ethnicity.
1. Style: The complete absence of swagger
No. He definitely has a swagger and a definite presence about him that is attractive to women. He has a quiet confidence and he’s learned to work with his 6’3″ slim frame so he doesn’t appear awkward or gawky. He isn’t overly concerned about what others think but he understands the importance of making a good impression.
2. Line of work: He is an engineer, systems analyst, lab technician, middle-manager, mechanic, union worker, researcher, graphic designer, college professor, accountant or something else that involves well-paid drone status.
No. He is a freelancer writer/designer, so that would fall under self-employed.
3. Looks: He is good-looking but your girlfriends would describe him as “cute” rather than “sexy” or “hot”. He may actually be completely gorgeous but without the swagger nobody notices.
No. He’d be described as sexy rather than cute.
4. Dating life: He does not “date around” and is looking for a serious relationship. He has not been on a date in a while (maybe a long while, maybe even years), not because he “can’t get any” but because he is picky and the behaviour of most women turns him off. He is usually too reserved or shy to ask women out.
No. He dates (or dated, I should say) and will ask women out, although he is a bit reserved. He is pretty picky about behavior/attitude, that’s true.
5. What he likes about you: He is attracted to your intelligence and personality and spends hours talking to you.
Yes. Very true. He was very attracted to my personality and intelligence initially. And we do spend an inordinate amount of time discussing various topics.
6. What he likes to do in his free time: He is into computers or computer games. He likes to read or watch non-fiction and science fiction. Trekkies and guys into Japanese animation are a good bet. He has a geeky hobby like programming robots or remodelling old cars. He has circuit boards on his desk at home.
Yes, he love to use the computer for research. He reads nonfiction books on sociology, politics, religion, etc. But he is not a Trekkie or into anime. He actually seems to be a bit biased against the types that are — he calls them “loser nerds.” 🙂
7. His manner: He is a bit socially awkward. He is not very good at hiding his emotions and his face is pretty much an open book. He does not brag and his rare compliments are spontaneous and almost involuntary, but sincere.
No. Reserved, but not good. And absolute no to not good at hiding his emotions. He is a sphinx. He only expresses his emotions with certain people (read: me). Although, to be honest, he isn’t very emotional so he doesn’t have too much to hide.
8. Religion: He believes in God but is not very religious. He will attend church with you but probably would not go regularly on his own.
No, no, no, no.. Atheist. Not a militant atheist, but an atheist nonetheless. If I attended church, he most certainly would never attend and probably would try to convince me not to attend as well. He thinks the idea of religion and belief in gods in general is completely nonsensical and if religious people only thought deeply about the subject, they would come to think so as well.
9. Intelligence: He is highly intelligent. Some of these guys are have an IQ above 125 – although their scores tend to be skewed towards the non-verbal end which is probably one of their problems in developing “game”.
Yes and no. IQ above 130. Nonverbal intelligence is fine.
That just further solidifies my belief that I’m (thankfully) not with the type of white man who “likes black women.”
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You know as I spend time on this blog I keep thinking about an old friend. I will call her T. Sweet T. She is a black girl that I met at a temp job. She is kinda light skinned and at first there was nothing that I noticed about her in particular. She was pretty but not “hot”. She was a little thick but I don’t even want to really say that because I thought she was just fine like she was. Let’s say a few extra pounds. But still attractive.
Soon we began to talk as I would pass by her desk. We began to talk more and more. Eventually we had lunch together and I visited her at her home. What I really felt was attractive about her was that she was confident, smart, funny, and attentive. She was a college graduate and was supporting herself and doing quite well. I would have considered a long term relationship with her and even marriage but our schedules didn’t work so well at the time and we lost touch.
In the end I’m saying that I was attracted to her mind more than anything else. Even her looks did not attract me until I discovered her intellect.
You ladies need to be sure that what ever color man is interested in you is interested in you for you mind and not just your a$$.
There is a book by Steve Harvey called(I think) Think Like a Man, Act Like a Woman. You ladies should check it out.
Unity by any means necessary.
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@Natasha W
It looks like, according to the article, that intelligent, but geeky guys, are the ones who like black women. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against geeky guys- in fact, they can be gorgeous and sexy, sometimes more than guys with swagger (I don’t have a good experience with alpha males).
Your experience seems a bit (a lot?) different. Maybe that’s because you’re not with a guy who is generally into “dating black women”? Or maybe you just can’t generalize anything, especially people’s preferences.
In any case, I’d love to read “white women that like black men” post.
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It looks like, according to the article, that intelligent, but geeky guys, are the ones who like black women.
Indeed. I tend to like nerds though. But not men who only date women of certain races/ethnicities.
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against geeky guys- in fact, they can be gorgeous and sexy, sometimes more than guys with swagger (I don’t have a good experience with alpha males).
I wouldn’t say my SO is the stereotypical alpha male type, although he tends to garner respect wherever he goes, maybe because of his intelligence, and quick wit. I think swagger just refers to a certain way of carrying oneself: with confidence and esteem.
Your experience seems a bit (a lot?) different. Maybe that’s because you’re not with a guy who is generally into “dating black women”?
I think so. Jay had never dated or been in a relationship with a black woman (or any non-white woman, for that matter) before he met me. I think this was more due to access than preference on his part; he is from a 95 percent white town and his social circles are all white. But we happened to have a few mutual friends and would see each other once in a while. I was attracted to him, but I wasn’t sure if he would be interested in me because he doesn’t seem like the “like black women” type. The funny thing is he was thinking the same: that I would not be interested in him because he was white. But we just began talking one day when I made a semi-flirty comment towards him. He said he just needed that one little push to know that I was interested in him, which I assumed, and the reason why I made it.
We honestly fit so well, like hand in glove. I’ve never been so smitten in my life. I can talk to him about anything and he is always so supportive and helpful. We have had our rough periods, but we always make up because we couldn’t imagine not having each other’s company and love. I’m glad I got up the nerve to make that comment. 🙂
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+1 Natasha.
A man is a man is a man is a man. He likes you for who you are. That you happened to be black is just incidental. For me the profile fits, simply because of the person I am: I like gaming, computers, reading old obscure books, hard core SciFi and high fantasy authors like Bear and Tolkien, riding, saving the world, mythologies and how they shaped cultures and languages, marathons, dancing. All that stuff. It just happens that the men I’ve met doing those things just happened to be mainly white.
“… wouldn’t say my SO is the stereotypical alpha male type, although he tends to garner respect wherever he goes…”
That is the Alpha male to me.
The anime stuff though…umm, yeah. I’m not an anime fan.
The definition for ‘geeky’ like the definitions changed for words like sir and nice, is changing. Geeky now belongs to ‘more passion for a certain subject’, like cheese. You can have cheese geeks. Geeks are no longer socially awkward men who are afraid of the opposite sex. I think you have to change geek to nerd if you want the same inference now.
“‘Your experience seems a bit (a lot?) different. Maybe that’s because you’re not with a guy who is generally into “dating black women”?’
I think so. Jay had never dated or been in a relationship with a black woman (or any non-white woman, for that matter) before he met me. I think this was more due to access than preference on his part; he is from a 95 percent white town and his social circles are all white.”
I was laughing when I read this. You, like that first marijuana cigarette, are his gateway drug, Natasha! Sorry, sorry…I’m a recovering catholic and I have a very irreverent sense of humor.
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Marci,
A man is a man is a man is a man. He likes you for who you are. That you happened to be black is just incidental.
Right. And that he happened to be white is also incidental.
That is the Alpha male to me.
Well, he claims he is not an Alpha, so I’ll take his word on that. I think the definition of an Alpha male has been distorted over time to where it now means the very assertive, dominating type, which he is most certainly not. He also prefers to take a behind the scenes role, so he’s not the leader of groups most times (at least, not physically).
The anime stuff though…umm, yeah. I’m not an anime fan.
Do you also dislike religious fanatics and conservatives? Those are a couple of his other verbal pinatas. 🙂
I was laughing when I read this. You, like that first marijuana cigarette, are his gateway drug, Natasha! Sorry, sorry…I’m a recovering catholic and I have a very irreverent sense of humor.
Lol. Maybe so. But something tells me that if we parted ways today, he would go right back to dating white women because he would never have to go out of his way to meet them or wonder if they were interested in him.
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Natasha, an Alpha male would never ‘claim’ to be an Alpha male. They just leave all that stuff to the rest of the world to fight over while they go on doing what they need/want to do. 🙂
I do. I dislike fanatics of any kind; they never listen to reason.
I intensely dislike religious fanatics, though I have the almost irresistable urge to bait them at every opportunity.
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No, Jay is not the modest type. If he were an Alpha male, he would say so. Among the titles he claims are “handsome,” “smart,” “competent,” “crush-worthy”… would you like me to continue? 🙂
Sounds like you are better match for him than I am. He also can not resist goading religious fanatics at every turn. You two could goad together. 😀
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lol
You have your hands full!
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I to have noticed that these white that have a serious interest in black women also like Asian women. Its actually kind of funny because Asian women have the exact opposite stereotypes black women have. One would think it was the Asian female’s perceived hyper-femininity, grace, and model minority status that attracted the man and the black women’s perceived rigidness and masculinity was a complete turn off but no, these men swing both ways.
Then again these men, according to the article, tend to be intelligent. They probably dont buy into the stereotyping.
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I am a black female who will be 57 soon. Divorced from a white guy who is now a good friend. I found him in the personal ads back in 1995. We are now divorced and tonight I googled to try to find where to find white men who will date a soon to be 57 year old who is retired….(26.7yrs of work).
Match.com didn’t work. Singlesnet has not returned the quality I was hoping to find.
If anyone has any ideas please let me know. It almost seems as though white males are afraid to start a conversation.
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it is the overtly confident and forward white men who black women should watch out for. the less obvious and shy types of white men are in my opinion less likely to use a black woman.
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This is interesting. I put myself on OKCupid and most of the guys that respond to me are white and engineers. Actually all of them, regardless of race, have been engineers. Its kinda weird. Maybe its true. Swag-less, “nerdy” non-black men are into black women… mmm…
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Engineers… Interesting. But hey, Y, it’s not like all of the engineers are nerdy. I bet there are some with swagger. 😉
I guess it’s just a stereotype (about shy, “nerdy” white guys liking black girls), but I must admit its something I noticed. Maybe it’s just an Internet thing (maybe it’s different in RL situations), but many black women online claim that the shy white guys are the ones who are interested in them (in a serious way) and also those who approach the most (even though their approach is often a bit strange since they’re shy).
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Love this site, and love white men, I have been dating them since high school. Single now, but wondered, why some post imply some amazment in their writing that these things work… weren’t we all created by God?
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How did I miss all of this? (Including Natasha and Marci’s hilarious conversations about game and “White men who like Black women”.)
Mira,
Even though I think nerdy White guys are the most likely to like Black girls, my current boyfriend is the first guy I’ve dated I could actually classify as “nerdy”. Before him, I always got asked out by athletic types. I don’t like anime or (most sci-fi), and he’s a former gamer nerd (he almost joined the South Korean gaming circuit :-P) who once made me sit on the floor of Borders while he read the latest Naruto. He is perfect for me though, and I vastly prefer his style to that of the (sometimes) cocky, “big-shot” guys I dated in the past. I think I’ve had too little dating experience for mine to be indicative of much, though.
Y,
I think engineers often experience a lot of brutal rejection from the superficial “Becky” types which makes them more open to finding “a nice girl”. At my university, a lot of times the Black girls are considered the nice (i.e., not slutty, won’t get drunk and act a fool at parties) ones, which makes them (in the eyes of guys, I guess) worthy of a relationship and not just a hook-up.
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yeah all men of races are equal and beautiful,I dated a caucasion man in 8th grade. i dated 2 black boys,one in 5th grade and the other in 4th grade. but i actually like the whole idea of ‘I love being single’ thing,its really fun. because you don’t have to worry about anything.
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What type of White men do Black women like? Just like any other race of men, I like smart ones who aren’t so quick to judge others and stereotype. People who are open minded like me, & pretty smart, but also physically attractive because I do take pride in how I look. I’m 21 and in college, lol…
… but this cuts out the majority of White guys in America. I’ve met men from all over the world in my school and I like them a lot more. For a girl coming from a family with morals and respect, I just don’t like American guys. Plus, too many of them think way too highly of themselves. Thats a major turn off.
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I just bumped into this one. Let me add my comment as someone who’s the result of a family history of three generations of so-called “miscegenation”. Some might think “oh no, not him again” 😉
I think it’s first of all a cultural thing and about country-specific upbringing.
I never cared about this alpha, beta male etc stuff. I suppose everybody’s personality is a mixture of many different traits. Everybody has a bit of everything, unless perhaps they get conditioned to fit a category. I believe nobody is clean-cut classifiable unless they choose to be classified or classify themselves. How dare outsiders categorising people they have never met, never talked to, never lived with?
My grandfather, southern French, first met my grandmother, Cameroonian, in Douala in the early 1930s. He worked there as an architect, my gran was a nurse. He went back to France around 1935 and my gran emigrated under, by today’s standards, adventurous circumstances to France a few months later where she was hired in a hospital in Paris. She was actually not following my grandfather but her brother who already lived in Paris for years. Well, my grandparents found each other again and a couple of years later my mother was born. My grandfather was stereotyped as being a womaniser and also judging by a few pictures from back in the day he *tried* to look like a celebrity. 😉 I would say he was definitely not nerdy, whatever that would have meant back then. He was a caring but independent spirit with strong humanistic principles. He would voice his opinion about ending colonialism even though it was still a touchy subject. When the Germans marched into Paris he would go through hell and high water to find a safe place for my gran, my mum and her siblings in the south of France before he went underground with la résistance. My gran was a mild-mannered, disciplined woman with a big voice when she laughed. I was devastated when she passed away in the eighties. For me and my siblings, she was a model of a woman, full stop. Not only a black woman.
The “nerd” in my family was actually my mother (who would have probably been considered just black in the US). She was a school teacher in physics and chemistry. She could be very formal and intellectually patronising, at the same time wearing funky sunglasses and huge earrings under a shaved bald head. My father had a few different careers but all freelance. Up until his retirement he ran a small recruitment business but he also worked as a private investigator for a few years. He also ran a little hardware shop back in the sixties. Independent spirit, he hated being told how to do his work. My father grew up in England as a kid of Eastern European immigrants and moved to Paris in the fifties where he met my mother. He always kept his dry British humour. Something the French couldn’t always relate to. He sometimes used his British accent to weasel his way out of awkward situations.
My parents lived the 68 peace & love era. I still remember my mum with the Marsha Hunt look and my father with long hair in flower power outfits 😀
To many outsiders our family appeared sometimes chaotic, sometimes excessively strict but in the end there was always a strong coherence. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that we were not only “interracial” but first of all international with different languages. Although my father speaks French very well there was always this last bit of mentality differences in quite a few daily issues. I think you have to make an extra effort if you want to keep your family together and, in return, it makes the bond stronger. My father took a long time to get used to open confrontation with dishes flying through the room… 😉 but eventually no conflict was ever ultimately distressing. There was always a sense of “let’s pull ourselves together and keep going”.
Speaking for myself, I’m 48 now, married to a (100%) African woman for 15 years. Although technically speaking our two kids are 62.5% black they look and are very different from each other. Although I’m 25% African I would probably be classified as “Caucasian” in the US since, as I heard, they consider arab-looking people white (??). My personal experiences over there were quite different though but that’s another story…
I was always, if at all, more torn between French and British than between black and white.
Not least, there are more cultural and mentality-wise differences between a white French and a white British or German than between a black French and a white French. For all of my life whenever the topic came up my parents told us that black or white or métisse is what you are. It’s not your fault and there’s nothing you can do about it. However it’s not something you should actively aim for, either way, and especially not let others expect you to do so.
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The article “White men that like black women” describes me very thoroughly. I am an HVAC technician working his way to becoming an engineer, i am socially awkward, attractive and intellegent. I have ran into problems with wanting to find someone that i can have a strong relationship with i am 22 years old and havent had a girlfriend for 8 years. i hope that it doesnt take me another 8 years to find a nice girl, as supposed to a dirty girl who would sooner be infattuated with someone and just move on to another man/women/whatever???.
Thanks for listening to my rant, i have provided this REAL information to confirm your articles relevance.
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I just think the pure white race is America is fading away with all these interracial relationships and marriages going on.
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“I just think the pure white race is America is fading away with all these interracial relationships and marriages going on.
It was never all that pure to begin with. It wouldn’t surprise me if you have some Black blood in you. You should really get a DNA test, if you want to be sure about purity.
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I just think the pure white race is America is fading away with all these interracial relationships and marriages going on.
So buy yourselves a pure white American today, folks! They’ll have great collectors value in the future.
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What the F is pure white race??? 😀
must be one of the most enduring myths ever invented by the swedish and german race biolgists.
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And the real aryans, that is iranians, are not too WHITE either 😀
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Replace America with Germany in that phrase, go back 80 years, label it with a swastika and there you have it. One of Hitler’s main dogmas in seizing power.
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Frankly, the idea of “pure X” makes me sick.
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“And the real aryans, that is iranians, are not too WHITE either ”
I though the real Aryans (by which I mean those who used the term for themselves first) were North Indians/Hindus and other people from the Indian subcontinent. Who knew Iranians used it too! Shows how stupid old-time Euro anthropologists were.
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Iran comes actually from the aryans. That at least is what I’ve been told.
Well, indians and pakistanis or afgans or iranians, they still don’t fit in the swedish-german aryan fashion model. 😀
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Given that whiteness is so valuable, do you think I could sell mine on E-bay?
Seriously, this might be a hoot to try.
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That would be too funny! Just be sure to add in the description that it includes at no extra charge White Privilege, Automatic Innocence until proven guilty and upgraded appeal to women of all ethnic persuasions.
Just be ready for some major backlash. lol
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I could cast it as an increasingly diminuishing resource and thus a collector’s item with high resale value…
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Write up the ad, I want to see this actually put on ebay. I smell a tv story during the morning show and then some serious discussion on a talk show given by 4, sometimes 5, women, including one with dreads.
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why did some of you go off about “pure white”? I thought it was funny that a “very Asian” and “very Black” person are <1% genetically different.
And please step off of the Hitler stuff, reading into his speeches, books etc was basically designed to get people riled up.In one of his books he wrote "If you are going to lie, lie big" – Hitler
That was exactly what he did! He told the biggest lies possible.
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No such luck, Marci: I live in Brazil. But it IS something to tink about doing…
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My guy has a subtle swagger, I’d say – it’s due to his self-confidence and intelligence; funny thing is, he’d say that about me, too! : )
I work at an engineering firm and get along well with my co-workers – meaning that I, too, am a brilliant, socially inept nerd and very proud of it! My guy is an electrician (IBEW Local 48) and loves to ride motorcycles; we met at a poker run and started talking and found out that we had tons in common. I’m 40, he’ll be 48 later on this month. We like a lot of the same types of music, but I enjoy hard rock / heavy metal a little more than he. He likes anime almost as much as I.
I had a point when I started typing this, but it’s a busy morning at work already and I lost my train of thought. Overall, when people want to settle down, they start looking for traits and qualities that speak of longevity…
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I am a white guy in my late 40’s and am finding some African American women very attractive and would consider dating them long-term if they would be willing. I am a good looking guy and in shape with great morale’s and would treat them like a lady. Would like to have a great time no bull. I talked to a hot looking black lady several months ago and could not stop looking at her. She was so good looking. : )
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Tim,
If you keep and open mind and trash any stereotypes you may have, things may work out for you. I have seen and read that many white guys tend to be so subtle in their approach that many black woman tend to miss the signs.
Best of luck to you.
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I think the profile at the beginning is interesting and probably on balance fairly accurate. I would strongly advice Black women not to consider white guys that have racial fetishes for non-white women. I think there is something abnormal and insincere about it.
I’ve been married to a white man for over 20 years, but he is not American (European). I find American white men still unsure about crossing that line. But the younger generation of white guys seem much more curious and with prompting seem to be willing.
I’m not too into whether or not they are Alpha or Beta. Men are men. I think that is a woman’s preference what type of guy she is into. I would think any white American guy who crosses the line and dates a Black (if they are sincere) would be what I call contrary as opposed to rebellious. I would be suspicious of super rebellious or highly idealistic “liberal” types. Interracial relationships require level-headed and strong minded traits from the parties involved. Idealism only hampers these type of relationships and clouds perspective.
My husband is not a nerd but he is middle-management and quietly successful. No flash. But very good looking. I would agree that European men are more comfortable with black women than Americans and their peers and family on balance are comfortable with it as well therefore, there is little to no social pressure involved.
In my city, I don’t see many white parents being concerned about their white sons dating my daughter. But having said this, only a small percentage of white guys actually pursue her. There is plenty of admiring from larger group though. I think most of these boys will pursue black women when they start attending college where the peer pressure is not as strong.
Well I guess I am rambling now and it is pretty late at night to boot. But I find the exchange here very interesting.
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Hey Abagond.
Very nice blog. Interesting post and discussion.
Really intriguing psychological portrait of men type that will seriously go after black woman. I can agree with this. Whats more important many commenter confirm it exist like it was portaited.
I know that this is extremely old post, but I like to add my few cents on explanation why those non-swagger, “engineering” minds will date and marry black woman, and why they are as You all write above.
First of all I must admit that beta male is very good first step on that.
As it was said, beta male is: very reserved, non-macho man, into computers, original, open minded etc. It also so shy. And this shyness is very important here. It make me find common personality features of Your white man (POC counts too) described above with Love Shy man.
So my hypothesis states that:
those men are Love Shy, or in (very) close relation to that syndrome.
But what is Love Shyness?
It’s social phobia which makes difficult or even impossible to dating and maintain intimacy contact with opposite sex human. Love Shyness is observed in both sexes, but as men are more expected to initiate relationship it affect them most. Term was originally coined by American psychologist Brian G. Gilmartin. He concluded that 1.5% of American men can have this syndrome.
Love Shy men are very romantic and idealistic (opposite to shy/psycho Omega male – werewolfs and similar punks). They generally don’t have addicts (drugs, alcohol).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love-shyness
“Dr. Gilmartin uses the term male lesbian to describe this condition of men identifying with the female trait of wanting or expecting to be seduced rather than being the one who makes the assertive romantic moves.” Term Male Lesbian refers to women’s way of idealized thinking and not to homosexual/transsexual tendencies. “Perhaps male lesbian is the better term (others are Passive Male Syndrome, submissive male) since so many male love-shys take the female romantic attitude towards sex, especially regarding losing their virginity. Adult virginal male love-shys act like school girls dreaming of their first time with the perfect person in the perfect situation.” So they are opposite to the Alpha male sex encounter.
http://loveshyproject.com/the_male_lesbian.html
Another aspect of Love Shyness is Aspenger syndrome. Itself it is very mild form of autism. This syndrome is responsible for deficit of reasonable level of social skills, which cause reserved social interaction, with shyness as main. (This is cause of absense/reduction of swaggers – they aren’t needed to survive).
However, persons with Aspenger syndrome reveal outstanding mathematical/logical skills. From early childhood those persons are characterized by love to systematization and logical order of their activities (e.g. stacking items in row etc). They are obsessed on collecting and systematizing knowledge or items related with interesting topic. Further in live those people will get into computers/engineering things. What is crucial they are greatly absorbed with theirs interests on level which affect social skills even more. So it is not surprising that Aspenger syndrome is considered as geek (syndrome) creator, yet it is responsible for uncommonly high IQ results of those peoples.
Moreover, those persons have very sensitive senses and bigger pain feeling.
They don’t like changes, especially those which reorganize their systematical life. And have honest, hard-shell justice system.
But is was also said that “Aspengers” can get experience with cooperation with other people, and thus phobic shyness can be reduced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=176
So in my analysis stated above You can trace Your “White Men That Like Black Women”.
Whats more I can make Your synthesis which show on what basis those person can be truly devoted to black women as equal human.
So, first of all I will bring up Male Lesbian syndrome here. Since Love Shy man have woman’s like pattern on relationship opposed to traditional male “macho” pattern. So it is obvious that he would be attracted to (as Mayhue wrote before):
“[…] an enchanting Alpha female type—as opposed to the equally shy and non-charismatic female counterpart”. As it was said, geeks are so picky. But He won’t go after abusing dominant woman (femme fatal or Alpha female as direct companion to Alpha male). He rather go for: “[…] some ethereal, pixie, magical, gypsy like woman sprite type—an enchanting Alpha female type […]”. (Btw. Mayhue: What a greatly beautiful portraiture of woman. Congrats.). He is freed from social expectations so his original nature will seek someone similar original, passionate personality with own interesting hobby. He will wait for that person till the satisfactory result.
He can also prize “healthy” matriarchal woman domination.
And that’s way he will go after black woman. Because he will not afraid to share or even give power in relationship to partner. It comes from two things: women’s way of thinking and shyness (he wouldn’t want to ask).
Second. Despite social awkwardness, he is open minded. Here works also strong sense of justice. I can give You my case. “Everyone is equal rule” is deep rooted in my moral system. No exception for the rule. I never seen black person (POC or generally all people) on basis of color. Of course, when we look at someone’s appearance, first what we may see it is skin color. Even when I interact with other people and I see their personality, I compare it with others personalities (constant systemization of world). I sustain my “Everyone is equal rule”, because I simply can segregate people by their type of personality but haven’t observed proof for racial stereotypes based on race. It is not logical so it won’t work.
Finally I would like to give tip for black women who have valuable, single shy man which goes under some of this topic categories. Love shy or simply shy man rather wouldn’t be chasing You from very first sight. Trust me, even if he will be interested with You, he will camouflage his intentions. Because he is picky and he will want to see your personality. He could be friend, but he is not sure yet that he want date with You. So as friendship or just companionship proceed he can have really crush on You – even fall in love in You. But still he can hide his intension because he is not sure of himself, he can horribly fear rejection. Not because he hate denials, but he is afraid that this could slump his low self-esteem even more.
He can make small moves and take “wait and see” position.
I know that this really unpleasant, but that it is. I see here cause, for what white geek men rather date with Asian woman that black. Asian women are somehow “easier to catch”. White man who barely show interest to white woman, will be terrified to ask black woman for date. As I said, he will rather try friendship tactic if any.
PS. All my description is unsettled, and it depend on particular man. Not all features can be seen so clearly. Beta male can be love shy, shy or just reserved. I described more closed in himself geek. It is closer to my lifetime experience. I hope it will be helpful, Maybe Abagond will create separate post, which will be good re-freshness of this topic. Bye!
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Hey Abagond!
Nice blog.
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honestly, THIS IS THE CRAPIEST LOAD OF CRAP I HAVE EVER READ IN MY LIFE. More white men than you think ARE attracted to black women…BEAUTIFUL white men, very succesful too…ALL kinds of white men, to say that it is generally geeks and guys you passed out on in high school, I THINK IS YOU TRYING TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL A WHOLE LOT BETTER AND THAT YOU ARE HONESTLY JUST BITTER. Black men MAY generally go for white ugly betty’s BUT the same does not apply when it is the other way round…you are all just bitter….i feel sorry fo you….this is the most FALSE AND SERIOUSLY IGNORANT BLOG I HAVE EVER READ.
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I don’t agree abagond that it is just whiter quieter nerdy types of white that like black women abagond. I have actually found that confident white men who also tend to to have black male friends & like black music ie. robin thicke & jon b tend to exclusively date black women, i have known a few white men like that in real life. Also i have worked in service industry for an upper class event & noticed quite a few of the rich men with beautiful black women, it got me thinking are richer white men more likely to be drawn to black women? Some very successful famous men such as george lucas, simon cowell, marc ecko, david bowie, robert deniro are married to black women. Many rich white men have a type whether it be asian women, blondes, brunettes, black women etc, they tend to date who they want & not care what people think.
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Interesting comment concerning ‘love shy’ men, Mike.
I still recall one post on a message board years ago, when I first started using the internet, where a lot of angry comments were directed at Black men who date white women, one Black guy, cute but diminutive (he’d put up a personal pic as his avatar) and kind of nerdy in appearace, stated that he had nothing against Black women, “but,” as he continued, and I quote, “Black women do not approach ME”. His girlfriend, a white girl, had approached HIM! This was a guy who expected women to make the first move, and, in his mind, that was the way things were supposed to be. He probably had been waiting around for a while for a girl to approach him, so that he could finally have a relationship, and if no girl ever did, he would probably have stayed a virgin bachelor for all of his life.
Since that time, I have seen quite a few couples where a very young black guy is walking down the street happily, hand in hand, with a non-Black girl. These young guys aren’t unattractive, but they tend to be nerdy, with no swag and on the short side. Black girls, for the most part, would have ignored them.
I also recall seeing a somewhat frumpy looking middle-aged couple (they both appeared to be in their late 40’s) walking with their intertwined hands swinging back and forth between them as they walked; they seemed genuinely happy to be with each other…and that they had found one another. The image of them has stayed with me. I have read many times since that ah-ha moment with that guy’s comment about Black women not approaching him, that many Black men who date white women do not approach these women randomly; they either let interested white women come to them or they place themselves in a position that makes it easier to approach (or to be approached by) white women who are into Black men.
As to Black women targeting nerdy types for dates: the notion does sound kind of off-kilter considering that Black women have acquired the reputation (whether deserved or undeserved) of ONLY really wanting a swaggering ‘bad boy’. I myself detest this silly ‘swagger’ notion that seems to be twisting too many of our minds in the wrong direction. Genuine self-confidence in a man is a definite selling point, though, and is something altogether different from thuggish ‘swagger’ as far as I’m concerned.
It is NOT a bad idea, though, for single women who want to be married, and who are not shy themselves, to be open minded about dating the shy men they otherwise wouldn’t even notice– those quiet guys, average in looks, but emotionally and mentally stable, who never seem to be dating or attached to anyone…who always seem to fall under every woman’s radar because they are not the showy or “in your face” types. Women should, of course, vet these guys as they should any other potential date, but I am thinking that a sizeable number of them might turn out to be nice, family-oriented men who’ll might make good husbands.
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Fiammu I agree with some of what you are saying, but do think their is a significant difference between being confident or arrogant. Overly arrogant men who think they can have any woman are not good relationship/marriage material, but there are men who have a quiet confidence & know how to approach women & talk to people in general & makes others laugh,that is attractive to most women of any race. I like men who are neither the life & sole of party that gets all women’s attention or the quiet shy guy who finds it hard to talk to women, just normal confident men. I also think many men have now become lazy when it comes to ‘courting’ & approaching women, I prefer a man that still believes a man should make an effort to win a woman over.
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@Jennifer and Blu,
I was the one who started up the pursuit with my husband who at the time was a thick bifocal glasses wearing instructor with a bald head. We are both black, so where does that leave black women like me, lol?
I think black people who are in IRRs online play tons of mind games. I see plenty of black girls my age and YOUNGER who have no problem being with black men who are academic, intellectual or in slang “nerdy”. As a matter of fact, i see black women with all kinds of black men (skateboarders, computer fanatics,punkers, cowboys,die-hard professionals, etc) Then again, i live in a university town. Just a bunch of excuses…i just want black people to be honest–if you prefer white women or white men, why should that be a problem in stating it?
White women do not accept “nerdy” black men anymore than black women do. If only .7% of all married white women have black husbands, then how can you logically infer that black women have something against “nerdy” black women but white women don’t???
I’m not saying you believe this Blu, just responding to the black guy you mentioned online.
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^oops i meant how can you logically infer that black women have something against “nerdy” black men but white women don’t???
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Ofcourse not all black women like the same type of man, but I think in general white & asian women are more open to dating quieter nerdy type guys than black & latino women are atleast based on first impressions. I think it also often depends on the personality of the woman, black women who are not so outgoing or into the party scene would probably prefer to date someone similar to themselves.
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^I disagree because the figures don’t support what you are saying…
And in any case, who coined the terms “nice guys”, “nerds”, and started the campaign to exclude these type of guys from an ideal mate? White women. This is evident in the numerous books and movies of the 1980’s on up to the 2000’s.
I don’t think it’s fair or even logical to say black women have a problem dating men who who are intellectual–as i think this is what “nerd” ultimately means…
The belief that black women as a whole only want black men who exemplify a certain rapstar, jailbird, thug image is a dirty damn lie.
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Phoebeprunelle,
Actually, I was trying NOT to make too much of a sweeping generalization regarding Black women and the personalities of the men they’re attracted to
It would be silly for me to say that Black women only want thugs or jailbirds; I myself avoid these types like the plague. I am repulsed by these types and I know that I’m not alone in this.
I must say, though, that by my use of the phrase “nerdy types”, I wasn’t specifically referring to men who are studious or intellectual. ‘Nerd’ is also sometimes used to refer to men who aren’t cool / who don’t have ‘swagger’; who dress plainly or even awkwardly; who are ‘shy and retiring’; not particularly attractive, tall or well built; or who may have poor social skills et cetera.
I have seen plenty of women, both Black and white, reject these types of men; however I do suspect that there are different cultural barometers on ‘nerdiness’ — i.e. a guy who seems particularly nerdy to Blacks, may not seem all that nerdy to whites or Asians (again, I am not necessarily speaking of men who are the studious or intellectual type ).
In writing what I did, it certainly was NOT my intention to impugn millions of Black women…mostly I was simply pointing out to those women (regardless of race) who are unhappily single, the under tapped source of potential husbands in the ‘Love Shy’ guys who might be going unnoticed.
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Jennifer,
I feel the same as you with regards to arrogant men.
I myself am somewhat shy, so I was actually speaking for myself when I wrote that “genuine self-confidence in a man is a definite selling point”. For me a genuinely confident man is one who knows how to carry himself; one who has a quiet confidence in abilities as a person and as a man. He is definitely NOT some aggressively, obnoxious braggadocio. Oh heck no! LOL.
I don’t know of many women who are attracted to that type of man.
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I have never been so accurately described by a random post in my entire life. I feel like you guys hit the nail on the head with this one. The religion is WORD FOR WORD how I describe my relationship with my girlfriend and God. And I have never heard the words ‘sexy’ or ‘hot’ to describe me before her. She insists that my face is the absolute epitome of perfection though. I am absolutely baffled how spot on this article was.
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This is kind of true, I have found the types of white guys who have been into dating me have been a bit shy & not over confident, those with the swagger have seemed to just be interested in sex & prefer a blonde girlfriend because over confident men are normally more concerned about what people think. But I think an exception is confident white men with more black male friends like robin thicke, those types tend to prefer to date black women.
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So am i in need of one. Age doesnt matter. Im 20years old.
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my wife is white but i love black women too. variety is good.
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It has been my personal experience that while BW don’t want to date nerdy BM, those men rarely look at the nerdy BW sitting right next to them. One of the nails in the coffin of my last relationship was the fact that I am not as girly as the type of women that put him down throughout his life. He’s told me stories about how a girl actually told him she would date him if he was more “hood”. The descriptor of the bitter beta make would fit him to a tee. While intellectually he knew that that type of glossy BW would make a bad life partner he still resented the alpha BM who were able to pull this type of girl with ease. So he went for me “nerdy girl” with the intention of changing my outward appearance to something more “girly”. Since I would not be his Eliza Dolittle we went our separate ways. He’s currently married to a non-American WW because he drank the entire pitcher of the Sapphire kool-aid and has accepted the “fact” that all BW are mean and hard to get along with.
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Hmmm. I’m one of those ‘nerdy’ black women who was also ‘groomed’ by my mother with ‘finishing school’ type classes. I was taught all the protocol and fashion need to be ‘desirable’ for a successful black man. But that backfired, because she also was an intellectual and stimulated my mind, heart and soul in such a way, that I saw through all of the class-driven drivel to which I was exposed.
I was highly sought after by alpha black males who were successful, but I could see that they sought me for my appearance and my refinement. They saw me as an adornment to their social climbing. When I exercised my intellect outside of the context of making a living (i.e., discussing books, independent film or merely going to an art gallery) they were not interested. Now granted many of these men were first generation college educated and probably had ambition as their number one goal as opposed to being well rounded. They probably could not afford this luxury, or their parents could not.
I eventually moved on to European men and black men from other countries where I would not feel this pressure to ‘appear’ a certain way. I’m a nerdy woman who is refined, BUT wants to be myself which is an intellectual that wants to be challenged not just within work but outside work.
I’m not partial to any race of men, but the man has to accept me ‘as is’ and not try to cram me into his fantasy of what he wants out of a woman. Either he seeks and gets that type of woman, or he accepts the women that he can get. You have to be a 10 to get a 10. Either the guy needs to ‘man up’ and improve himself, or he can wait until his late 30’s to early 40’s when successful men like him are in more demand and then he can have a bigger selection.
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Men like women regardless of race. It is in their instincts. However some White men like Black women but many of them don’t say so. I wonder why.
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Looking for a good white man to share the rest of my life with .it’s not my first time just the wrong man.so im given it one more try,
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It ‘s interesting i’ve noticed often the white men you would think prefer black women because they like black music and have swagger ie. a Justin Timerlake type don’t as you would expect always date black women. Usually it is actually the white men who like rock/indie music and have alternative interests who seem more open to dating black women and seem less likely to be looking for a ‘trophy girlfriend’ than the white men with swagger.
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@Jennifer
Very interesting observation. I never really thought about that.
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@ Sharina. I have been approached before by a flashy banker white guy, a white rapper/dj and a footballer who were very confident and could be described as having swagger, but their main aim was to get me into bed and nothing more. Whereas the more shy white guys who have been in regular jobs such as teaching or accountancy who lead a less flashy lifestyle have been more interested in properly dating me. I think this applies to men of all races though, those with a more flashy lifestyle who are very socially confident are usually in less of a rush to settle down.
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I am a plus sized black woman that dated a white guy recently. I never want to go back to black. I am a Pentecostal preachers daughter. I love white men. I live in Macon ga. If you are in Macon and over 45 please email me. I will respond.
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great post http://www.meetingle.com
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My friend married a handsome beta man in computer field for nine years. Online dating site didn’t workout for her. Largely men with kids,divorce,old,new age Hiphop culture,self center in dick size/sex and bragger. She met her man through my geek love crew in school.
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ah man i don’t even want to talk about how i met my girlfriend but it was not online
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I would say this could apply to Asian men too. My boyfriend is Asian & has similar characteristics described.
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Interesting phenomenon I observe here. When new posts aren’t particularly well-received (less than 100 comments for the last 3 combined at the moment), which tends to happen when you don’t have people like me saying controversial stuff, people go back to looking for oldies but goodies.
This post is more than 5 years old and lots of talk about “alpha”, “beta”, “gamma” and “omega” (though I think there may have been some confusion re: “gamma”, which maybe should have been “sigma” if it would be equated with “greater beta”). As far as I know, “gamma” and “sigma” are mainly descriptive terms from Vox Day’s lexicon, rather than Roissy’s. Anyway, interesting stuff–much more red pill than MSM in many ways. I didn’t learn about game, etc., till 2012… but better late than never.
Black&German has a little understanding of how things work and would be fun to have around, but it seems there has been some commenter churn in the last half decade. Interested re: how cami from cali’s search turned out. Most of the attractive girls who want to wait for marriage don’t make it that far, unfortunately.
The original post is perceptive. Beta white guys with fewer options might be the best bet for black girls. It’s honest at least. And yes, they can be great husbands and fathers if you can accept the beta-ness, but most men can’t really conceptualize what a turn-off a weak beta man is compared to a confident alpha with game and options.
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Biff
Has it dawned on you that when people search Google for words a certain one of abagond’s post might show up in Google pertaining to it. A post he may have wrote some years back? They then respond and someone that maybe subscribed to it will reply back?
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Kiwi said: “Based on what I see, beta white guys usually go for Asian girls. Most white men would be too embarrassed to be seen with a black girl.”
Well, to begin with, there’s nothing wrong with having a preference for dating within your race. Most white men are also not into Asian women (at least not as a first choice). Statistically speaking, given the choice, I think Asian women are much more likely to prefer white guys than vice versa.
And some of it might be embarrassment, but a lot of it is just “attraction”. I’ve met a couple white dudes who really like black women, and sexually fantasize about them, but they are few and far between. According to federal statiscis, white on black rape is practically non-existent.
Most folks here are pretty familiar with interracial phenomenon generally. If a black girl wants to be more attractive to white guys, she has to fight against the stereotypes. Work to demonstrate you are feminine and not domineering, not easy or available for hook ups (but still engaged and interested). Work harder to be seen as smart (even nerdy). Try not to have extra weight. As far as I can tell, most black women are also not very interested in white men, but for those who are, there are ways they can go about things to be much more attractive to them.
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Biff said:
Well, to begin with, there’s nothing wrong with having a preference for dating within your race.
Its fine, of course it is. As long as your reason for rejecting other potential mates is not based on the stuff of myths, tall tales, and legends i.e. unfeminine Bw, non domineering bw. Bw who are not ‘easy’, work harder to display some intelligience….do you see where this is going?
I have never ever seen WM work so hard to tell others why WM as a whole are not interested in BW and why Bw are not raped on the same scale as WW than on this blog. I mean, wtf is that about? Rape often does not have anything to do with attraction as far as I can tell its to do with power.
Seriously. There are a multitude of reasons why wm and bw dont hook up more often and in this day and age I dont believe it hinges on the rules of attraction but sometimes genuine disinterest for both parties and where men are concerned real irrational fear on the part of wm. I know because they say and its just weird.
As far as I can tell, most black women are also not very interested in white men, but for those who are, there are ways they can go about things to be much more attractive to them.
Well bw, eat your heart out. Dont aim too high where WM are concerned Go instead for the dregs and you may just get lucky!!!!! I honestly have not seen a ‘type’ of white man with a black woman. I know a lot of different wm in relationships with woc and they vary dramatically but rarely have I seen a geek go for a bw. They are more likely to look for the ‘norm’ as they themselves already battling stereotypes
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“Biff,
Most folks here are pretty familiar with interracial phenomenon generally. If a black girl wants to be more attractive to white guys, she has to fight against the stereotypes. Work to demonstrate you are feminine and not domineering, not easy or available for hook ups (but still engaged and interested). Work harder to be seen as smart (even nerdy). Try not to have extra weight.”
Linda say,
Biff, you are Only speaking about white American men
because white American men are cowards when it come to interracial dating —
“preferences” play a small part in their “fear of interracial dating” — most of them are afraid to act on their attraction to black women because they care more about what their friends/society thinks
and because white American men are cowards, it’s necessary for them to date weak women… that’s why they like Asian women — based on the stereotype that Asian women are submissive.
When a white American guy wants to look like he is “manly” and can handle a feisty woman, then he tries to get with Latina women because dating a Latina is more “acceptable”
Dating a black woman would entail a white American man to find his balls and come out of his comfort zone but as we know, most white American men don’t want to do that and expect the woman to step down to their level.
If a black woman wants to date a white man who has balls and doesn’t care what other people think of his dating choices –then she would have to date a white European man.
European men don’t need their women to be door mats or change their personalities
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“Omnipresent,
I have never ever seen WM work so hard to tell others why WM as a whole are not interested in BW”
Linda says,
Omni, you know that Biff is one of Abagonds long-time resident “race realists”, so there should be no surprise why he would put down black women.
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Biff, you are Only speaking about white American men
Well said Linda and I did wonder if this is specific to the U.S. I have asked it before I think (if not in the blog I have thought it in my head).
I find it insane that he uses rape to demonstrate the rules of attraction. For a start it seems as if ‘races’ live pretty separately in the U.S and if the statistics are to be believed and women get raped more by people they know then it stands to reason that people will get raped by someone of the same race to them!!!
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Linda says:
Omni, you know that Biff is one of Abagonds long-time resident “race realists”, so there should be no surprise why he would put down black women.
You have to wonder why though that men like him who are obviously not interested in dating bw need to go on about it and rationalise why – its bonkers that he has any thoughts about it at all. It is interesting but I bet you that he has a partner who themselves are described in a stereotypical way because he seems to have strong opinions about what women are and should be. I cannot for instance imagine him with someone who had their own mind/strong opinions. He just couldnt cope with it. I like women a feisty woman with something to say. I cant stand passivity or an airhead, boring
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“Omnipresent,
I find it insane that he uses rape to demonstrate the rules of attraction.”
Linda says,
Exactly!!
As you said, rape is about power…. that’s why white slave holders were raping the African women left and right back then– so Biff’s present day analogy is a bunch of BS.
back then, the law supported white men and their vileness towards black women, but they don’t have that legal “power” now.
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Of course Biff comes out the bag sh!tting on BW using stereotypes as to why they don’t enter IR relationships often all while trying pass it off as criticism. As if their aren’t any WW with terrible entitlement riddled attitudes due to their white privilege, overweight and manly acting. Like most non blacks critiquing black people he judges the entire group by their worst while judging his own group by their best. What a sick lame.
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@Biff: Rape really? You are disgusting and you are just a basic loser.
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A said “As if their aren’t any WW with terrible entitlement riddled attitudes due to their white privilege, overweight and manly acting. Like most non blacks critiquing black people he judges the entire group by their worst while judging his own group by their best. ”
Just to clarify, it’s not like I don’t criticize American WW. They’re definitely not my cup of tea.
Anyway, you all can be offended and yell at me, but I’m just telling it like it is. It’s possible that a small subset of men actually seek out “someone who ha[s] their own mind/strong opinions” per Omnipresent (masochists exist) and would love to have a woman force him to “find his balls” per Linda, but if that means a woman who is bossy or domineering it’s not a preference for most men, white or otherwise.
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Biff, you sound like an ignorant individual.
More Black American women and White American men don’t get together is due to the stereotypes that the media and (C)Rap music videos portray about Black women being loud, rude, nasty, sexually lascivious and just downright aggressive, limited social interaction with one another and the fact that many of them just can’t relate to one another due to cultural differences, racial background and how they were raised. And many times, Black American women aren’t attracted to White men and vice versa. There are many more factors that plays into Black American women not dating interracially as much as other races of women but I listed some of my reasoning as to why many of them don’t date interracially as much.
I will be very honest here. I grew up in a predominately White town in the South and I have always found White men attractive even during my Black Power/Black Nationalism phrase. John Stamos was my first crush growing up as I watched Full House reruns. I still like him to this very day. I also liked Leonardio DiCarpio, Johnny Depp, Mario Looez etc. But I never truly admitted my attraction to White and non Black men until I left Black Nationalism this summer. And stopped blaming White men for all the problem in our communities.
When I left Black Nationalism and regained conscious of my mind, it was finally that I can admit my attraction to non Black men even though I still find Black men just as attractive as well. I relearned not to stereotype and put one race down the way Biff is doing right now to Black women. No race is better than the other and everyone is the same however I will not be oblivious to the racism in our society from those in charge to individuals like Biff.
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Isn’t that what these trolls are good for? Derailing discussions while feeding their own egos as the center of attention?
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Biff is entitled to his views, just like we (as individuals) are entitled to ours. Maybe he will see things differently at some point…maybe not. As long as you (general “you”) feel comfortable with who you are, opinions like his won’t hurt you. Because really, that is all it is, an opinion…it is neither a solid fact nor the absolute final truth.
However, and I might get some criticism for saying this, he is right about one thing. Most men generally don’t seem to like overly aggressive women…there are exceptions of course, but this is not usually the norm.
I would say that these types of women can be found in all races but sadly, Black women are the ones burdened with this stereotype more than any other. I am of mixed race (black and white), very shy and soft-spoken, and even I have experienced people having preconceived notions about my “attitude”. Many people think this way about Black women. Maybe that is what Biff means? I’m not sure but I’m trying to understand.
I think some women confuse emotional strength with being b*tchy, loud and abrasive to others. This cuts across racial lines but Black women in particular get a bad rap because of the whole “strong Black woman” trope which is very damaging to Black femininity, in my opinion.
I also agree with what Adeen said about how Black women are often portrayed. With very few exceptions, the media usually doesn’t show Black women in a positive light…it is a very one-dimensional and often negative image being put out there.
I believe that if a white man or another type of man is mainly exposed to bad portrayals of Black women, showing them in a limited way, and if he has very little opportunity to see that there is so much more than what is portrayed…he will most likely not consider a Black woman as a potential wife/partner. But if he encounters a Black woman or two that defy the horrible stereotypes, that might open his mind and heart to realizing that Black women can be just as feminine and beautiful as WW or any other type of woman.
I’m not talking about being “white-washed”. I simply mean carrying oneself in a way that makes quality men (of any color) take notice. That is what helped me to improve my own romantic situation, personally. When I thought less of myself I attracted guys of a lower caliber and they treated me badly because I allowed it.
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@Adeen…I also find it interesting that the men you admitted to liking tend to have dark features, with the exception of Leo DiCaprio.
I don’t consider Mario Lopez to be white but you’re not alone, many women think he’s cute. He always had a nice body and I loved his curly hair. And you mentioned John Stamos (Uncle Jesse) from “Full House”! That was my show back in the day. He had that whole bad-boy image with the motorcycle and the rock band.
It is OK to be attracted to all kinds of men…never let anyone make you feel guilty about that. It doesn’t make you any less of a conscious Black woman.
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Cinnamondiva:
Thank you for the circumspect analysis. I am trying to help. I have mixed feelings about black/white unions, but WM/BF helps bring balance to the force. Also, sounds like you are largely white yourself.
If you provide a facebook name, would be happy to give you honest feedback about your presentation, but yes, shy, soft-spoken is very attractive in a girl, just could make it harder to get the message out.
Adeen is cute, and has a slim, but sorta curvy figure any white boy could love. She’s a bit short for me (I’m more than a foot taller), but plenty of of shorter white boys out there. However, the whole Black Nationalism and black themed stuff on her page is likely to scare away your average white boy, and she could try a little more upscale dress. If you want a nice white boy, you gotta work for it (I work for the girls I like, and was accused by a cute blonde girl at harvard of discrimination because I never noticed her, but she cut her hair like a les, so no sympathy from me). Just my 2cents.
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Anyway, you all can be offended and yell at me, but I’m just telling it like it is. It’s possible that a small subset of men actually seek out “someone who ha[s] their own mind/strong opinions” per Omnipresent (masochists exist) and would love to have a woman force him to “find his balls” per Linda, but if that means a woman who is bossy or domineering it’s not a preference for most men, white or otherwise.
Listen mate, dont put words in my mouth. I didnt say anything about bossy domineering women. I said I would like a feisty woman. Someone with her own mind. I can tell exactly what kind of woman you are with lmao. Must be some interesting conversations:-
Biff: I told you, thats the way it is
Mrs Biff: Ok dear, whatever you say
Biff: Yeah, you know im right and who told you to talk!
Seriously though, it is up to the individual who they go with but I reckon that real men dont give a sh!t if a woman has her own mind. Its commonly those less masculine men who are frightened of being challenged or misogynsts, the type that are cowards and beat women in to submission for being strong.
I mean, what kind of man talks about rape statistics where the race of the victim is a marker for how attractive one race is over another. I wish I could find the article but my OH read somewhere that bw the world over are less likely to report sex crimes because they feel that they would be on trial themselves rather than people getting to the attackers
I have mixed feelings about black/white unions, but WM/BF helps bring balance to the force. Also sounds as if you are largely white yourself
WTF has it got to do with you. If it aint your thing dont get involved? BTW with a name like Cinamon diva I would be surprised if she was white but what do I know.
If you provide a facebook name, would be happy to give you honest feedback about your presentation, but yes, shy, soft-spoken is very attractive in a girl, just could make it harder to get the message out.
Oh geez, Oh this, is funny. I have heard it all, omfd. Style and fashion tips from Abagonds answer to Gok Wan lmfao. Black Ladies, you heard it here first, presentation advice from the man who is not sure that he really wants his brethren to date you.
Adeen is cute, and has a slim, but sorta curvy figure any white boy could love. She’s a bit short for me (I’m more than a foot taller), but plenty of of shorter white boys out there. However, the whole Black Nationalism and black themed stuff on her page is likely to scare away your average white boy, and she could try a little more upscale dress. If you want a nice white boy, you gotta work for it
This is weird. She’s barely a young woman (sorry Adeen, you are not much older than my kid and I would be f*ckin furious if someone was giving the measure of them like this on the web) but you Biff sound like a grown man and yet you are sizing her up for yourself! What The EFFFFF.
There is something off about you geezer.
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But here is the thing:
White men are not living in isolation from Black women–therefore, they know good and well that the angry, unattractive trope is largely a falsehood.
No, there is something else.
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@Biff…I’ve been married nearly 6 years so I’m not looking to attract anyone. I don’t have Facebook either and even if I did, I wouldn’t share that information here.
As me to being “largely white” it depends on what you mean by that. In terms of my appearance, one could say that I look more white than black. I use the handle Cinnamondiva in reference to my love of cooking and baking, not because of skin color…my skin is actually lighter than some white people’s. And yes, I do have plenty of white/Caucasian blood but that doesn’t cancel out my African heritage.
I happen to be very feminine in all ways and I know it…I don’t need anybody else to decide whether I meet their standards of beauty or femininity.
There is nothing masculine about me at all. But thanks anyway for your offer to critique my “presentation”.
As to Adeen, I agree that she is indeed a pretty young lady. But I have to wonder, Biff…if you don’t like Black women, why not just leave them alone? Why spend time putting them down and telling them to change themselves? There are attractive and unattractive women in every race. There are feminine and unfeminine women in every race. It is not exclusive to just one group.
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Biff
about your presentation, but yes, shy, soft-spoken is very attractive in a girl, just could make it harder to get the message out.
Who in the media would you hold up as presenting themselves in this way from any race?
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im honest loving caring,faithful and patient black women who is looking 4 a serious relationship with a white guy
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That’s an interesting list.
1. True. I never cared for style but rather utility.
2. Line of work. Self started business with employees.
3. Looks. Her friends would say I look old lol (I’m 54)
4. Dating life. I never had a problem getting girls to date me.
5. I like her intelligence and personality. She’s the one who talks though lol
6. What I like to do. Computer geek is way off. I like the outdoors, hiking and hunting. I also make hand made knives as a hobby.
7. His manner. I’m not socially awkward. I can walk up to a complete stranger and have a conversation. Part of what I do is meet new clients and convince them that were the company they should hire.
8. Religion. I was raised in a rightwing Christian fundamentalist family. I rejected all that and am an Atheist. But I’m tolerant of others peoples religions provided their not interfering with society.
9. Intelligence. I took a few classes in college but pretty much went right to work as a tree trimmer and eventually started my own business. I’ve never taken an I.Q. test.
I’d been divorced twice before and have four children from two different women. My divorces were undramatic and my X’s like my partner.
I met Tammy on match.com about seven years ago. My criteria then was I wanted to date someone who lived within ten miles of me. I drive around all day and I didn’t want to spend 45 minutes driving somewhere for a date. In L.A. the population density makes the probability of meeting somebody compatible doable thus the small dating radius. I dated about half a dozen women but what attracted me to Tammy was that she liked hiking and traveling. We did some day hikes and decided that we would go hike half dome in Yosemite. That is an 18 mile hike that took 12 hours to do and it kicked my ass. She made it to the top and back and that event got my attention. We got serious after that. We’ve hiked Machu Picchu and this last summer we hiked Kilimanjaro.
She’s from the East coast. Her family didn’t know she was dating me for about a year. When I first met them they were polite and nice. The following year they really opened up. Maybe they could see that Tammy was genuinely happy.
Tammy is liberal and independent. I’m more libertarian and the skeptic. Theirs enough philosophical cross over that it works.
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@Bliff
I actually left Black Nationalism over a year ago due to the sexism and misogyny I saw many of the men practice in the movement. To me, the sexist and misogynist Black males in the movement weren’t any different from the oppressors that they were supposedly want to fight against to break down the system. And I hadn’t really commented on this blog like I used to do. I am more into Black feminism and intersection these days.
And most of my male acquaintances and friends happen to be Caucasian and I live in a predominately White area. I mostly attract White men along with some Latino and Arab men. And I have always been attracted to White men even in my Black Nationalism days but I repressed my attraction to non Black men because I didn’t want others to see me as a sellout. Non Black men have always gravitated towards me as well.
And I am far from abrasive or even loud. I am fairly quiet in person and treat everyone with respect but I am also on the quirky side. I am not bitter or angry at all. I am tired of this stereotype of the ”angry Black woman” being promoted towards me and other Black women out there.
Yes, I am Adeen but under a new name because I am in the process of writing a blog.
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I am tired of having to prove to both racists and Black male misogynists and sexists that I am a human being not a walking stereotype. These stereotypes of Black women being a Sapphire, Jezebel and Mammy as well as ”angry Black woman”, ”welfare queen”, ”ghetto”, ”loud” etc used to describe Black women in society. I am aware that there are some Black women who fit these stereotypes however there are many more Black women such as myself that don’t fit these stereotypes. Yet if a Black woman does speak out against being mistreated or against a injustice, she is labeled an ”angry Black woman”. And I don’t like that.
@Omnipresent
I am of age. I will be twenty in a few months but I just have a baby face and petite frame that makes me look younger than I am but I appreciate your input.
Regardless, I find myself the most attracted to White and Latino men because I grew up around them and I find the most comfortable around them. Many of them understand my musical tastes and seem to understand me better. And I find them physically attractive as well. And White men seem to gravitate towards me too.
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I’m a 35 year old black woman who would like to explore a relationship with a men of a different race. A man who puts God first, loves children and romantic. I’m an outgoing person, very spontaneous and very independent.
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Am procy lubega aged 25 black in colour tall, from africa am looking aserious white man from uk aged 25-40 serious in love. atall guy medium size,lovable,happy guy who can out me show me love with all styles.not alcoholic, christian and ready to marry me after met .thanks
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@ lubega procy
This is not a dating site.
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This is not a dating site.
Why not? I thought it was the way some argue on here.
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I am a black woman looking to love a white man. Help me please. I live in macon ga. I would prefer someone here. Please help me. Email me something. Or someone.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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All i need is aloving, caring, responsible, understand n God fearing (Christian) man i dont about where comes from.
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