I am racist. Many commenters point this out to me, particularly white ones. I already know. Nearly everyone who spends more than five years in America becomes racist. I am no different.
And, if I had any doubts, the Implicit Association Test for racism shows it: I am not an extreme racist, but I do unthinkingly favour blacks over whites. It is easier for me to think good things about blacks and bad things about whites than the other way round.
Some commenters call me a racist like it proves something. In most cases it proves nothing because it is just an ad hominem argument: that my argument must be bad because I am a bad person. But bad people can make good arguments and good people can make bad arguments. Arguments should stand or fall on their own, not on who makes them.
My racism is not particularly worse or better than that of most Americans. But two things make it different: First, it goes in the opposite direction from that of most Americans – it favours blacks, not whites; it is a black racism, not a white racism. Second, I am honest about being racist.
One time I was called up for jury duty. The court told us a 20-year-old Hispanic man was accused of robbing a store at gunpoint. I was asked if his race would affect my judgement. I said yes. I expected half of the other people to say yes too, especially since it would help to get them out of the jury. Only one other person did!
If racism were that rare we would be living in a completely different society. That proved to me that most people in America fool themselves into thinking they are not racist.
Lying to ourselves and not talking about it only helps to keep race relations stuck in 1974.
I do not hate white people in general, though some things they do or allow to go on does make my blood boil. I am on my guard with them because I know that their interests are not always my interests, that their experiences and ways of thinking are different than mine. And, because some of them have made it clear what they think of me, I wonder if others think that way too but are just better at hiding it.
That said, I do think that blacks and whites are born with the same hearts and the same minds. They are both the children of Eve, whether biblical or mitochondrial. Most of the differences between blacks and whites in America are the creation of history and society, not of inborn qualities. “White” and “black” are not so much physical races but castes made up to suit the interest of slaveowners. The slaves were freed long ago but the castes go on because it suits whites, because, deep down, most whites do not care about black lives.
See also:
Well I reread the definition of racist from three different sources.. (and it’s been changing over time.. ) and don’t think it fits for you as far as I can tell. Tossing the word around so freeing dilutes it’s meaning in my opinion. From your statements you do seem to have a belief system that accords much more power and responsibility towards whites than I do. Personally I think the concept of class privilege has been rewritten to accommodate the concept of white privilege.
You do use conjecture fairly often… although the subject lends itself to such analysis.
“deep down, most whites do not care about black lives.”
Do you think deep down blacks (in general) care about white lives..? How about Mexicans? (towards blacks..) Asians..? People of Middle Eastern decent..?
Inherently caring about other cultures is an abstract and I think fairly modern concept.
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Uncle Milton-
You make a great point. While many non blacks under value black lives there is a nuclear element to this. Instinctively people want to preserve those they associate as their “own” people. I’ve seen it with Italian men who idolize Italian women. I’ve seen it working in a restaurant where black guests asked for a black server so they could “keep the money in the good.” And I see it daily among whites that are almost unaware of their preference and bias.
For the country nicknamed “the melting pot” America has a long way to go in learning that “otherness” does not equal “less.”
How can we teach the next generation that everyone has the same intrinsic value?
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To Ames:
How can we teach the next generation that everyone has the same intrinsic value?
In short, I don’t have a clue. Both the USSR and Yugoslavia tried to not only erase the concept of ethnic differences but also religious and class differences. When the central authority in those respective countries collapsed a very different social structure came about which yielded to varying degrees ethnic warfare.
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When I was school aged and laughed at someone or want to pick on them my mom would tell me, “That person has a mom, a family. Someone, somewhere loves them.”
It was a gentle but riviting way to humanize all people. I was taught early that everyone belongs to someone. It sounds cliche but through that lens how can a people be marginalized? Abagond is right, we have the same hearts and minds, if only they can both expand a bit.
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Uncle Milton: Why do you say I am not a racist? What meaning of the word are you going by?
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To Abagond:
Re: meaning of racist
Here’s one definition from dictionary.com
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
—————————————–
1 and 2 from what I have read of your material simply don’t apply.
3. This is closer but you pointedly stated that you don’t hate white people.
From Merrian-Webster: (this is actually the definition of racism and not racist.)
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
——————————————–
1 doesn’t apply.
2. Well this is close but I tend to believe that to be a racist.. one should have more than occasional racist thoughts or feelings, more like a code of being.
You have racist thoughts but recognize that they are racist and apparently try to address them and don’t live by that credo. (Well I think the case..)
Perhaps I am splitting hairs.
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I said:
“deep down, most whites do not care about black lives.”
Uncle Milton said:
Inherently caring about other cultures is an abstract and I think fairly modern concept.
In this case I was not talking about blacks and whites worldwide but within one country, America. So the blacks in question are not some faraway people from over the seas, like the children in Malawi, but one’s own countrymen.
Like think about Katrina and how poor blacks fared in that. It was terrible and shameful. First, there was little effort to get them out. Then for days they were allowed to twist in the wind without any help, like they did not matter, like they were little better than stray animals, like they were in Haiti or Rwanda and not in New Orleans, not right off of highway I-10, not in America.
Black Americans are not “abstract”, they are not part of “other cultures”.
But, sad to say, I was not surprised by the whole Katrina thing. From living in New York I learned how little “America” cares about blacks – like they are unwanted stepchildren, like it is not their country too. So for you to say that blacks are a part of “other cultures”, that says something.
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i agree 100% with everything you said except about white people and black people having the same heart. remember aba, white people dont have melenin therefore they dont have the same depth, spiritaulity, dammit they dont have a soul!! only a spirit. they are not on the same vibe as black people. thats why they are hateful. white people hate everybody especially themselves. white people are racist all over the world.
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I think that if history had turned out a little differently and America had been settled by blacks and worked by their white slaves, then it would be blacks who would have hearts of stone. Whites are not born that way – they are made that way by their power and the moral blindness that follows from it.
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If anyone needed a reason to mistrust black people, jasmine just provided it. Thanks for fanning the flames of racial tension in America.
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Translation: “Keep your mouth shut, you do not want white people to get upset.”
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So for you to say that blacks are a part of “other cultures”, that says something.
You’re reading quite a bit into a broad statement. Often in history when one culture encountered another, warfare ensued. Contact was frequently not benign. I would apply that statement even to the warring Scottish highland clans. Clearly the same race but they would considered themselves to be from different tribes. My statement was not about current black/white issues but about how humans have behaved historically. On an individual basis humans can be very kind to each other. On a mass scale, historically, they can be brutal.
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To Abagond:
Translation: “Keep your mouth shut, you do not want white people to get upset.”
Who are you addressing with this statement..?
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@racerealist,
Yes, jasmine can sometimes be extreme in her views, but there’s a white commenter here who also has some extreme views. I believe his/her tag is “nonserviam.”
No disrepect jasmine & nonserviam. You’re entitled to your opinions.
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My statement needed no translation. I meant exactly what I said.
When someone says something like this:
“white people dont have melenin therefore they dont have the same depth, spiritaulity, dammit they dont have a soul!! only a spirit. they are not on the same vibe as black people. thats why they are hateful. white people hate everybody especially themselves. white people are racist all over the world.”
White people don’t have a soul, and they hate everybody especially themselves?
Several people here have admitted to mistrusting whites because they feel whites hold racist attitudes. When a black person makes such ignorant anti-white racist statements, how can you not acknowledge that they are fueling that exact same mistrust on the part of whites?
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Racerealist, it seems that Jasmine is projecting her own racist thoughts onto all white people. It is a defense mechanism.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/478472/projection
Projection (human psychology):
“Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harboring hostile thoughts.”
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First of all, a lot of people are throwing the word racist where is doesn’t apply. To be racist requires prejudice and POWER. Merely being prejudiced (preconceived judgements and generalizations onto another individual) is not in of itself racist, although it’s clearly not right. People are prejudical everyday whether they are aware of it or not, sometimes it’s useful, sometimes it’s not. Racism and being a racist comes into play when you include institutional power to enforce restrictions and/or limitations to individuals (especially those who bear certain phenotypical characteristics) in social, economic, and political sphere.
Everyone got an opinion and people may disagree but throwing the word racist around trivializes actual occurences of racism.
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I’m prejudiced, as well, about a lot of things. My husband is white and is easily the least prejudiced and the most color-blind person I know. Perhaps because he grew up in an area where everyone is largely the same and minorities aren’t even a topic of conversation.
It’s easy to become racist in America because it’s such a constant topic here.
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To Abagond:
So for you to say that blacks are a part of “other cultures”, that says something.
That’s not what I said… but I could believe that to some degree blacks in the US have a separate culture (probably more appropriately a sub culture with some overlap..) than whites.
Apparently you believe the same thing:
“But unlike most blacks in America, they do not have a common culture of their own.”
“But that said, most whites still share a common culture. It is what you see on television, what is taught in school. It is why white suburbs are so much alike from city to city.”
“White Americans have a culture just like everyone else”
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In one of those posts I said that Black American and British culture were “close cousins” to White American culture. All three share a great deal in common. They are different from one another but not to the degree of being foreign.
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racism = prejudice + power.
I do not agree with that, but that is another post. If that is your definition then the title of this post should read: “I am prejudiced”.
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Both the USSR and Yugoslavia tried to not only erase the concept of ethnic differences but also religious and class differences. When the central authority in those respective countries collapsed a very different social structure came about which yielded to varying degrees ethnic warfare.
Multiculturalism cannot exist without coercion from above. That’s a big part of the reason why the Western elites are invested in it so: it vastly increases the power of the government.
Especially when it’s not simply managing strife generated by excessive diversity, but nothing less than guaranteeing racial equality of socioeconomic outcomes — a truly Sisyphean task, requiring exercise of power and expenditure of resources on a correspondingly titanic scale.
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From Merrian-Webster: (this is actually the definition of racism and not racist.)
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination.
#1 conflates two different thing. The idea of racial differences being partially rooted in biology is a factual statement, and as such can be empirically demonstrated or disproved. It may turn out to be either correct (probably) or incorrect (doubtfully), but it is morally neutral.
Superiority/inferiority, on the other hand, is a value judgement, and therefore is morally charged.
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Actually, even jasmine’s hateful nonsense can be refuted on purely factual level — moral condemnation almost seems superfluous.
That said, I’m of two minds about such displays. On the one hand, no sane individual welcomes racial strife. On the other one, whites are long overdue for a reality check — the more aware they become of how blacks see them, the better.
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In a better world, the issue of human differences, both cultural and biological, wouldn’t be so politically charged. I, for one, would certainly prefer to leave it to science, where it belongs.
Unfortunately, far too many actors keep trying to lay the blame for certain groups’ conspicuous underperformance at whitey’s feet, dreaming up ever more preposterous manifestations of the white devilry (“color-blind racism”) etc. Under such circumstances, all that remains is to point out the real reasons for group disparity, however impolite that may seem.
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Nonserviam, the distinction you are referring to is “equality of opportunity” versus “equality of outcomes”.
There is no way to know if the average black child born today will, eventually, perform as well on the SAT as the average white child born today.
However, it is clear that the average black child who takes the SAT today will perform significantly worse than the average white child.
What option does today’s black child have to ensure that he will get into the same college, get the same job, and earn as much over his lifetime as the average white child? Affirmative action is an option, but it tends to be merely a placebo. Students admitted to colleges for which they are not qualified, and employees admitted to jobs for which they are not qualified, are much less likely to succeed in their endeavors.
The problem with expecting “equality of outcomes” is that there is no fair, natural way to negate 20+ years of inequality.
The problem with realizing “equality of opportunity” is that its results will not be seen for 20+ years down the line.
Unfortunately, for the past 50 years, our concern has been focused on the short-term benefits of “equality of outcomes” legislation rather than long-term “equality of opportunity” legislation. It’s similar to the environmental discussion, where quick-fixes like biodiesel (which serves only to reduce the price of gas) are more popular than truly transformative projects like re-engineering the energy grid for renewable sources.
It’s a natural product of our desire to see change (no matter how superficial) within our own lifetime. Most people, if they were honest, would admit that they wouldn’t sacrifice anything in their life to create a better future. Even those who have children are fairly indifferent towards where the path we’re on will lead us 50 or 100 years down the line.
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The problem with realizing “equality of opportunity” is that its results will not be seen for 20+ years down the line.
A bigger problem is that they may not transpire even then. Surely, as a race realist, you have to at least consider the possibility that some of the racial differences may be innate and thus impervious to social engineering.
In this light, honest acknowledgement of human biodiversity may be the only way to avoid continuous racial resentment and strife. That, and individualism.
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Equality of opportunity may never be achieved, but it’s certainly a more worthy goal than the “equality of outcome” agenda which essentially amounts to anti-white racism in the name of “equality”.
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to aba @ 4-7 22:31. i disagree boo. it is not in black people to hate EVERYONE on Gods green earth even after slavery we didnt hurt them white people we just wanted to be let alone on the land that we developed and worked. in the country that we mad wealthy. but you already know white people wouldnt let us be. everything from the kkk to burning down our thriving cities, lynching our children, brothers and husbands .
oh yeah, i just found out just recently that black people couldnt even LAUGH in public. white people did not like to see black people laughing and enjoying themselves so if black people were out in public around white people, WE HAD TO LAUGH IN A BUCKET !!! they actually had buckets for black people to laugh in, in town just like the black water fountains and what not. HOW DEVILISH DO YOU HAVE TO BE NOT TO WANT TO SEE ANOTHER RACE OF PEOPLE EVEN LAUGH??? black people done forgot how evil white people are!!! we have forgotten who we are dealing with.
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“A bigger problem is that they may not transpire even then. Surely, as a race realist, you have to at least consider the possibility that some of the racial differences may be innate and thus impervious to social engineering.” nonserviam
This is a humongus load of crap. Just speaking of the black experience in America, blacks were a group of people who began existence here with less than zero. They didn’t own their own bodies–even their children were not theirs, forbidden to speak or write their own language, forbidden to speak or write english, etc. A few centuries later many of them are as educated and high earning as the group that enslaved them (how do you go from being less than a dog to being equal in every practical way and not be capable of intelligence–even high intelligence?). And much of the this occurred before Affirmative Action. Talk about pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And they did this without the benefit of being able to hide their “racial” origins through language or name assimilation. Skin color made it impossible to hide their ethnicity in the ways that the Irish, Italians & Jews could. There’s no way this could be accomplished by humans of “innately” low intelligence.
There may be some innate differences between “races”, but the ability to achieve a high level of intelligence is not one of them.
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Regarding equality of opportunity and equality of outcomes:
What about just equality of government services? Start there. That would be huge. You do not even have to assume anything about race. It is what a democratic government is morally bound to do anyway.
When government services in black ghettos are as good as they are in white suburbs – police protection, public schooling, trash pickup, etc – and have been for 30 years running, then many other things would take care of themselves. It would not be a cure-all, but it would make the remaining issues easier to deal with.
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nonserviam said:
Unfortunately, far too many actors keep trying to lay the blame for certain groups’ conspicuous underperformance at whitey’s feet, dreaming up ever more preposterous manifestations of the white devilry (”color-blind racism”) etc.
In my experience it is only white people who say “whitey” and “white devils”. It has become a white stereotype of how black people think.
True, Malcolm X said “white devils” but later took it back as wrong. George Jefferson said “whitey” but that was just television and most likely the script writers were white anyway (I am curious to know if that is in fact true). And in either case that was more than 20 years ago.
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jasmine said:
HOW DEVILISH DO YOU HAVE TO BE NOT TO WANT TO SEE ANOTHER RACE OF PEOPLE EVEN LAUGH??? black people done forgot how evil white people are!!! we have forgotten who we are dealing with.
Whites are unnecessarily mean, I agree, but I do not think they were born that way. It is more in how they are brought up and how their power corrupts them.
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I agree with temple: What other people have ever pulled themselves up from slavery so quickly?
American history, even just the white part of it, is proof of what people can do if they have freedom and opportunity. Most of the white people who came to America were losers back in Europe. If we think like nonserviam, then we would expect them to fail in America too, just like all those Mexicans are expected to do, you know, since a good part of our destiny is supposedly written in our DNA.
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There may be some innate differences between “races”, but the ability to achieve a high level of intelligence is not one of them.
Then the problem has been resolved. The “achievement gap” does not exist. Carry on.
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Jasmine and Temple, thank you for bringing clarity and a breath of fresh air to the discussion…
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temple @ 4-10 52:46
you hit the hammer right dead on the head with your post. you detailed what a great people we are.
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@nonserviam:
You’re correct, the “achievement gap” does not exist. It’s a fairytale. We can go back a few centuries to find the same types of fairytales told as “fact/science” written by white men & women to justify their inferiority beliefs about & inhumane actions towards nonwhite people. Such as: they are savages/animals, they have no ability to reason, they have no religion, they’re incapable of learning, they’re lazy. All since proven wrong or proven to be flaws/traits that all “races” can possibly exhibit.
I’m not attacking you, or anyone else here. But what I am attacking are the lies created to justify enslavement & abuse. Lies that are still believed in 2009. And whites are not the only group who believe and act on these lies. In my experience nonwhites also believe & act on them in ways that harm themselves and each other.
Nonserviam you have a right to your position, but you should know that position is based on emotion & not fact. Carry on.
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Yes, temple, your views are consistent with the new world order.
Facts that conflict with political correctness are lies. Lies that agree with political correctness are facts.
I don’t know why I am posting on an anti-white hate blog, when the owner admits to being racist and seems to feel no desire to change. Let’s all just stay racist and see how that turns out.
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racerealist Says:
“Yes, temple, your views are consistent with the new world order.
Facts that conflict with political correctness are lies. Lies that agree with political correctness are facts.
I don’t know why I am posting on an anti-white hate blog, when the owner admits to being racist and seems to feel no desire to change. Let’s all just stay racist and see how that turns out.”
Racerealist, I agree with you that there is a lot of anti-white animosity among some of the posters in this forum. That also makes me feel out of place sometimes. I agree with many of your comments, particularly about double standards and political correctness. Some of the posters are so full of hatred and distrust toward white people (white men especially), partly because they have been conditioned to feel that way. Some of them are incapable of introspection and are perpetually blind to their own hypocrisy. I usually avoid engaging with those posters because it is a waste of time. But there are other posters that I may disagree with, but I think are rational enough to consider another perspective. I think you should continue to post. I do enjoy exchanging different perspectives and opinions, just as long as it is polite or at least civil.
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A White Guy said:
ome of the posters are so full of hatred and distrust toward white people (white men especially), partly because they have been conditioned to feel that way. Some of them are incapable of introspection and are perpetually blind to their own hypocrisy.
The same sort of thing is true of some of the white posters too. Some posters are serious, some are not so serious.
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racerealist:
Temple is not being politically correct in this case. The fact is whites used to think way worse things about blacks that proved to be untrue.
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abagond Says:
“The same sort of thing is true of some of the white posters too. Some posters are serious, some are not so serious.”
I am sure that is true. I don’t like encountering bigotry no matter who is practicing it. But I agree with Racerealist’s point that there are double standards and that we should all be held to the same standard.
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@racerealist:
What are the politically correct lies that are really “facts” & what are the “facts” that have been recreated as lies for the sake of polital correctness? And, more importantly, when did truth & respect for other people’s humanity become political correctness? There is no atrocity or act of love or courage that has not been committed by every “race” of man/woman.
@A White Guy:
The reason that you feel out of place here is because you come here for the wrong reason–to TELL human beings who have experiences that are different from yours that they are ABSOLUTELY wrong, you are ABSOLUTELY right, & you have the LAST word on the subject. Here you are:
“Some of them are incapable of introspection…”
Yeah because “they” have no ability to think or reason. Very introspective and privileged of you. Tell those people how inferior they really are!
As far as anti-white hatred, check Derailing for Dummies under “Silencing Much?” You forget nonserviam’s many, many comments defending white supremacy/rights on this blog. Nonserviam holding it down for the white man/woman. Woot woot!
My comment above was to say that I don’t want to have these conversations from a place of farfetched lies, sci-fi writing, racial condescending & validation of supposed racial superiority. I don’t hate anyone here or in my real life.
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Temple, you just illustrated my point. Your derisive comments toward me are prime examples of arguments that I try to avoid, because nothing is likely to be accomplished. It is apparent to me that when I referred to some posters (without naming anyone) who “are so full of hatred and distrust toward white people (white men especially)” you took it very personally, because evidently you must be one of those individuals I was describing. You immediately attacked me personally, accusing me of believing in “racial superiority” and “racial condescension.” Not only are your accusations absurd and without a shred of evidence, your comments indicate that you are condescending and totally intolerant of dissenting opinions. It is you who wants to “have the LAST word on the subject” and stifle those who disagree with you. How very introspective and privileged of you.
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I hope you guys recognize the irony in constantly referring to the “Derailing for Dummies” post in order to derail the conversation.
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temple:
There is a difference between “on average” and “every single one”. Traits such as intelligence follow the normal (Gaussian) distribution, aka “the bell curve”. Statistical thinking is counterintuitive, but there really isn’t understanding human biodiversity without it.
Nonserviam holding it down for the white man/woman.
No, simply for the truth.
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I don’t know why I am posting on an anti-white hate blog, when the owner admits to being racist and seems to feel no desire to change.
In fairness to abagond, he merely applies to himself his own wildly expansive definition of “racism”. He’s being consistent.
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@A White Guy,
My comment in response to yours did have a bit of bite. Not out of hatred or distrust, but because you left yourself open & I couldn’t resist turning the tables. I’m only human.
@racerealist,
In response to the irony in my comment, see my response to A White Guy here. As for your other comments, my truths are no more unreliable than what you present–I’ve just never been published.
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Got tired of the whole OpenID-thing…
Anyway,
to all of the white (or brown, or Asian, for that matter) people posting on this blog:
STAY!
It’s what makes the blog so interesting. If it was just abagond talking with and to a bunch of black women it would be snore-worthy. This blog is so interesting that even my husband is asking me, “What did he post now? What was her response?” And he thinks blogs are BOOOOORING.
What a great blog!
The only thing I don’t like are the posters who degenerate into screaming and cursing. Not only do I find their online-demeanor offensive, it’s often very difficult to decipher what they are actually saying. And the all-caps stuff grates, as well. Yeah, I’m one of those crazy black people who can discuss race without getting angry. I can even discuss race face-to-face with a racist without getting visibly angry. I can discuss pretty much anything without getting angry. I’m just a cold fish, I suppose…
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Black&German,
I agree with you that Abagond’s blog is pretty great. And I really enjoy the diversity of the commenters.
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@Black&German,
I get what you’re saying but alot of the white people on this blog are very ignorant.
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“Most of the white people who came to America were losers back in Europe.”
if being poor because of RICH peoples greed and power then the whole world are losers.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/black-racism-is-every-bit-as-bad-as-white-racism-596435.html
excellent written..
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“I get what you’re saying but alot of the white people on this blog are very ignorant.”
A lot of people are ignorant, including black people. I am also ignorant on a lot of subjects. That shouldn’t exclude them (or me) from posting as long as they attempt to be polite.
And they don’t write in ALL CAPS. I really can’t stand that. It feels like being yelled at.
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People say some mean and ignorant things on my blog, but it is better that they stay and hear other ideas than just hear the same old thing from their friends. It is also an education for others about how some people think.
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miker:
Thanks for the link to that article in the Independent. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown makes a good point when she says that people of colour lose the high moral ground when they turn a blind eye to racist hate crimes done by one of their own. It looks hypocritical, I know, but the thing is people of colour already get more than enough bad press. Still it is something to think about.
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It’s interesting to see that someone else is racist in the opposite direction. Actually, I used to be the same way. I am white myself, but there was a time that I really hated my own race for what it did in the past: slavery, segregation, bad music taste…
I’m not like that as much anymore, but I still admit that “my” race did horrible things in the past. And the reason why black people do a lot of crimes these days, is because some of them won’t survive if they didn’t. And that’s because they used to be discriminated in the past. But it’s also the reason why they’re still getting discriminated today. It’s a vicious circle, and it’s hard to get out of it.
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Have you thought about the fact that young white girls reading your blog can get really hurt and feel really bad about themselves? Young innocent children reading this and wondering why black bodies are better, why “German round” eyes are the ugliest and so on.
You will probably state that you only write what your personal preferences in females are, but I’m wondering what your real intentions by writing so much appearance-fixated text are. What is your motivation?
Bringing up the self-esteem of young black women? Or putting down and hurting the self-esteem of young white women? Do you have to write so much about body types and looks?
Why don’t spend time writing something constructive and see beauty in different things? I am from Norway and I have never met someone this racist. Your wife saying that white people have bad hearts ?! I’ve never heard such a thing from anyone in Norway. What century are you living in?
You could obviously learn something from our country. We have forgotten about the fact that we look a bit different years ago. We never talk about this shit! People here are dating every race, body type and hair color all the time. Every appearance has its charm! I am a darkheaded white/golden woman, I can fall for every type of man that is out there. Long live variety!!!!
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I live in America. It is not quite like your description of Norway. If you are not white it is a hard thing to forget:
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Have you thought about the fact that young white girls reading your blog can get really hurt and feel really bad about themselves? Young innocent children reading this and wondering why black bodies are better, why “German round” eyes are the ugliest and so on.
This isn’t a blog to make people feel good about themselves. It’s one person writing about their perceptions. If you agree comment accordingly. If you don’t, comment accordingly. People reading this and taking it as an attack on their self-perception already had these problems before they ever clapped eyes on this blog.
You will probably state that you only write what your personal preferences in females are, but I’m wondering what your real intentions by writing so much appearance-fixated text are. What is your motivation?
If you read the About section, you would see that he “I write what I want”. There is an index section with a myriad of topics. Funny how topics which do-not hinge on race or appearance, don’t get many responses.
Bringing up the self-esteem of young black women? Or putting down and hurting the self-esteem of young white women? Do you have to write so much about body types and looks?
The white media already does a good job of this in regards to white women. Why refer to a blog which is essentially written from the blog owner’s viewpoint, as affecting the esteem of white girls? One has to either seek a blog out, arrive from another blog, or stumble upon it(which I did). There are probably millions of blogs out their dedicated to men’s preferences in women’s shapes which probably are truly derogatory towards women’s bodies. This isn’t one of them. If you are satisfied with your body, then a million blogs containing such subjects will not affect your esteem. You will either laugh them off or ignore them if they are disgusting.
You could obviously learn something from our country. We have forgotten about the fact that we look a bit different years ago. We never talk about this shit! People here are dating every race, body type and hair color all the time. Every appearance has its charm! I am a darkheaded white/golden woman, I can fall for every type of man that is out there. Long live variety!!!!
Learn what? Funny that. When you Google Norway and racism, you will get 1,640,000 hits. Nope no racism there. That’s the beauty of the internet, it is chalk full of information. Besides which, I doubt that the racialized population is that great even on a per ratio basis. Should it reach a saturation point, you will see just how truly racist Norway is. Also, the writer, as he iterated, is writing from an American perspective, not a Norwegian one. As for being able to ‘fall for any man out there’ congratulations, you are like 90% of women worldwide.
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Herneith hit the nail right on the head! White Lens anyone? The part that irked me was that poster flirting with the idea that this blog can even come close to doing the damage to White women that White media has done and is doing to women of color. If you already have your mind made up before you join a discussion then why bother.
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@ Herneith & Gen: Thank you!
@ Sandra:
That post where I talked about round German eyes had this disclaimer as the very first paragraph:
“This is not based on any grand survey, it is just based on me. I will be straight and honest rather than politically correct.”
That was a warning for those delicate souls who do not like to hear personal, honest opinions. It also makes the point that I am only speaking for myself, not for all of malekind.
The post in question:
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I’m mad this dense chick really thought that abagond’s blog will do damage to a young white lady’s self-esteem. How so? How many young white ladies go and comment on abagond’s site frequently? Not very many! This is not comparable to the media’s obssession with European beauty that has cause many young women of color low self-esteem. I’ve went on public forums that talk about women and rarely Black women are mentioned is beautiful and worst comments were made about them than any other woman’s ethnicity or race.
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^^^
Right. How many message board discussions and websites gleefully disparge and demean black women (or people)?! And for what?
Yet, a critique of white racism is supposed to destroy a white person’s pysche. Gimme a break! LOL.
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Abagond, you should should do a follow up post about people reading your blog and interpreting it as a esteem booster or a self help guide for crying out loud! Sheesh, LOL
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Good idea. I am thinking of doing a post something along those lines.
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@Sandra
Oh my days that is so funny “white girl’s self esteem” might be hurt.
Girl please come on with that banana spilt.
If those girl’s self esteem is so hurt they can watch all the other things white media puts out where when a person of colour is put in a situation with numerous white people and they are quite often half white or behave in a sterotypical fashion and real people in real life get judged on that behaviour.
Or they can even watch those episodes of the Tyra Banks show where people of colour are going through self hate and wish they were white to feel better. I respect your opinion and all but come on sweetie come on.
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I’m not sure I see what you mean by media’s obsession of white beauty. I see people of color everywhere in all ads, on all catwalks and boards, in every music video. I’ve actually felt it the other way around. There’s rarely a white woman in music videos and make-up ads anymore.
I understand from this blog and the answers that people in America thinks more about race and differences than I thought. It’s sad that it has to be this way. You’ve obviously had bad experiences with whites in your past, I’m sure it’s not just some European beauties in ad’s that has upset you so?
I’m sorry if I seem naive, you all just seem so revengeful and hating and I’m not used to people talking about race like abagond does in this blog. I’m a bit shocked.
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To white women such as Sandra, get a grip! Everything isn’t all about you. Nonwhite women are finally getting their due and you’re whining about your white girl self esteem getting hurt. All I see is white models, actresses and the fact that white women are more esteemed than women of Color. The world doesn’t revolve around whites, so get over it!
La Reyna
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Why is it that whenever many whites are confronted with the fact that they are truly the ones quite well represented in every form of media to the exclusion of other races (especially black), the first thing they say is that to them they feel that blacks are quite represented and in a positive way, and that to them they kinda think that blacks are actually overly represented not under. case in point from Sandra:
“There’s rarely a white woman in music videos and make-up ads anymore.”
Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh. What exactly are they seeing? Oh yes, White Lens again. 😦
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“Some European beauties in ads” Well, if that isn’t a load of dismissive, patronizing and condescending BS then I don’t know what is.
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That is the exact point, Sandra. This blog does talk about race. Bringing it out in all its ugly sordid detail. Welcome to our world my dear. 😦
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Sandra:
You should get a copy of American Vogue or any mainstream American magazine. Count all the the people in it, not counting those in ads, and then see how many of them are black. See if it comes anywhere near one-eighth black that America is.
Also try it on American television shows, like “Sex in the City” (which is set in a city that is one-fourth black, by the way). Count those who have speaking parts.
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Sandra:
Here are the stars of NBC’s current television shows in America. Count how many are black:
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I’m not sure I see what you mean by media’s obsession of white beauty.
You wouldn’t would you as it is all in our ‘heads’. Living in North America, the reality is very different. I don’t know what planet you’re living on but it is not Earth.
I’ve actually felt it the other way around. There’s rarely a white woman in music videos and make-up ads anymore. .
This particular statement brings to mind one of my favorite tunes ‘Cry me a River’. Seriously though, if you live in such an inclusive society, why is that a concern? According to how Norway embraces everyone, would you not perceive this as a good thing?
You’ve obviously had bad experiences with whites in your past, I’m sure it’s not just some European beauties in ad’s that has upset you so?
I’m sorry if I seem naive, you all just seem so revengeful and hating and I’m not used to people talking about race like abagond does in this blog. I’m a bit shocked.
Where do you get the impression that the commentors are seeking revenge! Oh, I get it, you are being called out on your racism. Is that the revenge you are referring to? As for hate, I guess black people cannot talk about their personal experiences with racism as that constitutes ‘hate’ in your mind. Maybe you should ‘talk’ about race in your much vaunted Norway with racialized people as I am sure you would be in for an eye opening experience. Oh, by the way, I googled racism in Norway again, and it went up to 2,360,000 hits today. As LaReyna said, “get a grip”!
Gen Says:
Tue 17 Nov 2009 at 21:30:07
“Some European beauties in ads” Well, if that isn’t a load of dismissive, patronizing and condescending BS then I don’t know what is.
It is.
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Sandra girl you need to get a grip on reality. Just because we call out racism does not mean that we are seeking revenge girl please! You comment just came off dismissive and narcissitic. You need to be honest with yourself and just say it hurts your feelings because they this blog is not praising White women’s beauty.
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Her reference to “videos” and the fact that she thinks Aba’s posts focus on “looks” too much made me think a little. If she’s watching music videos I know shes seeing a bunch of bouncing half naked Non-White women, the fact that there are still more images of White women(more positive ones too) doesn’t dawn on her because 1. She doesn’t see their race and 2. She probably doesn’t look like these women anyway. She doesn’t feel enough people are catering to her. Otherwise, one man’s thoughts on what he thinks is attractive wouldn’t be THAT big a deal. The whole “it’s you guys that have the problem” bit is just shield, it may be useful but I don’t think that’s healthy
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@ Gen
The funny thing is Gen she focused on one media segment and discounted other media potrayals that are dominantly White. She generally said “music videos” but what she means is Hip-Hop and R&B music videos because I rarely see alot of POC in country, Rock, electronica, Alternative, etc that feature WOC. At that when these music videos (discounting Hip-Hop and R&B) have love interests, they are over whelmingly White.I wouldn’t say that ALL White women’s images are positive, but they have more diverse images in the media that they won’t feel a stereotype threat like WOC.
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Exactly, I knew she was talking about hip hop, or “urban” music videos and this is why I believe she has serious self image issues because this small bit of the media machine has her saying “enough already” and that speaks volumes. This is why people like her get so offended when White racism gets called out by people of color because they get all these messages from other White people about the state of race relations. See a few smiling Non-Whites on TV and think we should leave well enough alone. She got her feelings hurt and didn’t look any further.
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I also acknowledge my racist tendencies, but I try to see the individual as best I can. Sometimes I fail, epically.
As for me not caring about black lives, let me say that I rarely care about -anyone- else’s lives other than my family’s.
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I am not sure if it’s possible to live in this world today and not to be racist.
But racism is not an uniform phenomenon. Not all racists are the same, and not all racism means doing and thinking the same things. Some racists are of KKK, hateful kind. Many people, however, are not like that. But that doesn’t mean they are free of racism- their racism is just of a different kind. Also, racism outside America (or western world) is different, but it still exists.
It is important to understand the term “racist” is pointless as an insult, because it doesn’t say anything (except making people go crazy). Ok, in that sense (making people go crazy) it is good as an insult, but it should not be used for that.
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I see that the people here have found their sacrificial lamb. Jump to conclusions about the way people feel. After all you know there thoughts better than they do right? Jump to offense and do not consider opposing opinions. Is this not what the whole conflict is about. Does it feel good to all band together to tear someones argument to shreds and pass moral judgment upon them?
In the end it all comes down to personal opinion. Try to let someone have their opinion without crucifying them. If that’s not too hard.
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@ Abagond
I never thought I would admit this to a bunch of strangers but over the last 5 years of my life, my opinion of most white Americans has decreased.
If I were to list all the hateful, sneaky, slithering antics whites have done to me on my job, especially on the job, in my own neighbourhood and in general life, I’d be here til next month.
I vacilate between contempt and severe pity for them. Most of them will never know the wonderful things we have to offer a friendship or relationship because they remain blinded by their own hatred. Then they feel guilty because of it and shame sets in. Then shame creates EXCUSES.
I never thought, in my entire life, I’d ever agree with Bill Cosby. But the older I get , the more I understand him and why he’s angry and jaded. Spike Lee also fits this to a tee. I now have no white friends left, by my own doing. I prefer it that way. Blacks tend to ‘say it like it is’ take it or leave it. It may be harsh, but it’s the truth.
Whites lie, somersault and twist ‘facts’ so they don’t appear to be monsters.
Now that I simply cannot deal with.
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It should pretty much be acknowledged that everyone is racist to an extent. It is universally true amongst everyone that is not a borderline saint, but as you sit down and look at the girl standing behind the counter, you aren’t thinking about what her job is. You are thinking about how she will talk to you based on her race. You may not look down on her for anything, but the you automatically ascribe her to a category. That thought is a form of racism and it goes up from there.
If you truly want to be a better person, the acknowledgement of your own racism is the first step, but not the actual solution. Find your solution by acknowledging and addressing your inner weaknesses, not by giving in to them.
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Why is that whites and even the media own by whites always need to point out or preface the race/background/ethnicity of any person who does not look white when they are about to talk/write about them?? Example: This black guy/woman, chinese (label for all Asians) guy/lady, etc…
But when whites talk about other whites, they don’t preface with “…this european guy/woman, s/he is french, german, irish, etc…”
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