America is not a white country or a black country: it is a mulatto nation. Both African and European. That is part of its strength and beauty, something Americans should be proud of no matter what their skin colour.
When Miguel Covarrubias, the Mexican illustrator, came to America in the 1920s he mixed freely with blacks and whites. He did not see America the way the white people did, as England-only-bigger. He saw it as a marriage between an old white Europe and a young black Africa. An Afro-European country, a sort of English-speaking Brazil.
He saw Mexico in the same light: it was the marriage between the white Spaniards and the brown Aztecs. Art in Mexico did not flower till people understood that and took pride in it. Before then they denied their brownness and tried to be as white as Spain. It did not work. Besides, the world already had a Spain. It needed a Mexico.
The same is true with America. What makes it something new and wonderful is its mix of black and white.
Believe me, I know that America is divided, that it is one country with two parallel worlds, one black, one white. The one you see on television is the white one. The black one shows through every now and then. No, not as Snoop Dogg or Flavor Flav, who are paid to entertain white people. I mean like Rodney King, Katrina, Reverend Wright and even Michelle Obama. That parallel world.
The division between blacks and whites could easily last for a thousand years. It has already lasted a third of that. But if you step back and look at American history you can see that the division, the racism, has been getting weaker and weaker in the long run. Both blacks and whites think of themselves as Americans and they both believe, somewhere in their souls, that all men are created equal. So in spite of whatever setbacks come along, the divisions will come down in the long run. It is just a matter of time. Maybe another hundred years. (Of course, keep in mind when I am writing this – just after Barack Obama won the Democratic primaries.)
Over the past 50 years blacks and whites have become more and more like each other through mutual assimilation. In time there will be no difference at all. They will no longer live in parallel worlds of black and white, but in a common mulatto world that will be known as America. No matter what their skin colour is. That is the direction America is headed in.
I know that might seem unsettling to some, maybe even unnatural somehow. That is because we live in a period of American history where skin colour still matters and racism is still strong. It draws a big dark line right down the middle of the country. A line that hopefully someday will be gone.
See also:
For UK, America and most European countries, this is the reality that many racists had feared would happen, so keeping the races apart, bringing in of the one drop rule, Jim Crow etc. The media is doing their bit. Demoning black people especially women, things are changing, but there will be a fight to the very end. Demons don’t go quietly. In a modern world, you either work together or you die.
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Blacks have become less ghetto, whites less square.
What?
SMH.
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I mean that compared to the 1950s whites, in general, act less square and uptight than they did then, at least as compared to the television shows you see from back then, like “Leave it to Beaver”. Meanwhile there are far more blacks who talk, act and dress like white, middle-class people.
I was trying to squeeze into one paragraph what I said in another post:
Clearly my paragraph here needs some work.
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Felicity: I know the idea does not sit well with many people, both black and white. But in the end it will be like boiling a frog: so slowly no one will notice.
When I watched “Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs” one thing that struck me is that even though it is from 1943, the language seemed surprisingly current. That is because so much of the slang of Black English in the 1940s became mainstream by the 1960s. That is because it was considered “cool”, but now it just seems ordinary.
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JJ: I love the picture at the top of your blog!
http://brownsugar28.blogspot.com/
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The nation of Brazil can provide an example of what a population might look like after an extended period of assimilation. I’m certainly aware that Brazil has its share of issues with racism and horrific poverty. My point, though, is that there are a lot of caramel and cafe-au-lait Brazilians who look, as Agabond says, “somewhere east of Alicia Keys.”
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I forgot to mention a few notable examples of both cultural and ethnic cross-over in our popular culture: Lenny Kravitz; Slash; Rissi Palmer; the Spanglish used in many songs by the group Sublime; Alicia Keys; Halle Berry; and, last but not least, Barak Obama.
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And of course how could I forget Prince, whose music almost defines cross-over, combining elements that are decidedly heavy metal/guitar hero stuff with some of the deepest, heaviest funk and R&B grooves laid down by any musician, ever.
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Prince is a great example. Lenny Kravitz too, but less so.
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I’m personally not a fan of Lenny Kravitz. As a guitarist myself, I find Lenny’s playing plodding and uninspired. Compare Lenny’s solo in that ballad on “5” (the track title doesn’t come to mind right now) to Prince’s solo in “Purple Rain.” The two songs have the same basic chord change. Lenny’s solo sounds plotted out and over-rehearsed. Prince’s is a flight of fancy that soars to the stratosphere.
But I digress. I mentioned both Lenny and Slash because, under the “one drop” rule, both qualify as “black,” yet both have found fame in the realm of rock or heavy metal music, in the face of industry pressure on black musicians to play “black” music. Rissi Palmer likewise (country music). The music bizz is a place where stark racial divisions persist, which is one of the reasons the bizz is becoming an anachronism that is ensuring its inevitable obsolescence. But that is a a subject for another day.
Recall, by the way, that Lenny and Lisa Bonet produced a progeny, Zoe. I guess that makes Zoey sort of an uber-mulatto.
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Ah, and that is part of why Zoe Kravitz is the picture that goes with this post! (The other part is that I thought it was a cool picture.)
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I’m slow like that. Ask my wife. She’ll be happy to expound upon exactly how slow I am.
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I notice that the internet has an abundance of posts/info/opinions about people who are spawned from black/white unions. Since I believe the internet represents much of society’s unconscious and gives a safe haven for people to speak (their conditioned bigoted) minds, this means the topic of and about folks who are considered “biracial” is an intriguing one for a fair amount of people, since it’s talked about so much!
Anyway, this whole “mulatto” (bad term; very archaic and racist) nation already happened 400 years ago. Most black Americans have varying-yet-sizable amounts of European blood and vice versa with white Americans.
This reality didn’t change or help any of the white supremacy and anti-black bias that is still prevelant to this day. All it did was dilute bloodlines and create tensions (colorism).
Race mixing is nothing new and is just as American as apple pie and slavery.
Blacks and other non-white groups shouldn’t have to assimilate. They should retain pride in their culture and have it appreciated instead of deingerated or neutered or diluted.
The “one drop rule” you speak of, is the reason why ALL blacks are considered black. It’s also important to note that in countries such as Jamaica and Brazil, which are also heavily mixed (Jamaica less so, admittedly), many of the blacks there easily (and visibly) have non-African blood yet still proudly proclaim their blackness. And there was no evil “one drop rule” there. So, let’s be clear on that. That’s a myth and a misperception.
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I picked “mulatto” because it means part black and part white. Biracial is more general than that. Besides, “Mulatto Nation” has a ring to it that “Biracial Nation” does not.
I know mulatto is archaic, but I do not see how it is racist.
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This post is not about what “should” be but what is likely given past history. Personally I would rather blacks did not have to assimilate, though it might be worth it if blacks and whites both gave up something and it ended racism.
I know perfectly well that if blacks assimilated and whites did nothing, it would not end racism. Not one bit.
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From what I know the One Drop Rule is an American invention, though it may hold in other English-speaking countries. It does not hold in Brazil and it did not even hold in New Orleans when it was under French rule.
Race in Brazil:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/2007/09/15/race-in-brazil/
Creoles:
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Hmm …the one drop rule is actually overstated. It was actually more implemented in certain Southern states more so than in other states. (i.e. the whole Homer Plessy ordeal).
All I know is that many non-US blacks consider themselves black despite often times visible non-African admixture. Brazil, Jamaica, Dominican Republic ven. I’ve personally witnessed this with my own eyes. And there was no “one drop rule” in any other country so that whole spiel is just that …spiel. Lots of misinformation.
Dismantling white supremacy will end American racism once and for all. And it’s going to take a long, hard, strong brutal fight that is in the millions to kill that once and for all. But it can be done …with lots of blood, tears and sweat.
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BTW Prince is black…. yep
“There are a number of myths regarding Prince’s ethnicity, some spread by Prince himself. In fact, he was born to a black mother and a black father.”
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say word, “olivia” how do you know this
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Yes, Olivia, state your source.
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I Think your next blog should be on the orgin of the word “mulatto”
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Prince is mixed in the generational way. He would still be considered mulatto. But he is not Biracial. Both of his parents are of African/Black ancestry. His mother is fairer complexioned than the father, yet he is a caramel complexioned man. (I’m a big Prince fan)Prince allowed for the ‘biracial:1/2Black 1/2Italian’ rumors for the sake of the movie. Even though the woman who played his mother in Purple Rain was Greek.
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Mulatto is a dual defined word.
It means the child of an Euro & an African or White & Black.
the 2nd defination is also someone of Euro & African ancestry, tending toward the visible admixture.
So someone biracial:Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Lenny Kravitz, Rachel True, Boris Kodjoe,Giancarlo Esposito, Eartha Kitt, Frederick Douglas & Booker T. Washington are Mulatto
and (non-biracial) Dorothy Dandridge, Will/Jada Pinkett-Smith, Debbie Allen, Vanessa Williams, Prince, W.E.B. Dubois, Langston Hughes, Coretta Scott-King, Terrance Howard,Gary Dourdan, Al Jareau are Mulatto according to the 2nd definition.
Early American history had more terms used to define mixed people. Sambo in the more English dominated states used Sambo/Mulatto were used interchangible for the child of a mulatto & negro. Quadroon/Mulatto used the same way for the child of a mulatto & euro/white.
Quadroon Octoroon
In French colonized America(Creole states) Marabou/Mulatré was used for the child of a mulatré & nêgré. Griffé/Griffoné used for the child of Marabou & Nêgré. Sacatré is the child of a Griffé & Nêgré.
Quaterone/quadroon – Sang-mêlé
There were more terms for the white/mixed children that went up to the Sang Mele. Sang Mele was the last mix before someone was legally termed a white person: they also had to be totally assimilated as a White, French or European person. No Negre,slave carryovers such as mannerisms, speach, association.
Definition:
\Oc`to*roon”\, n.
[L. octo eight + -roon, as inquadroon.]
The offspring of a quadroon and a white person;
a mestee.
Definition:
\Quad*roon”\, n.
[F. quarteron, or Sp. cuarteron.
See{Quarter} a fourth part, and cf. {Quarteron}.]
The offspring of a mulatto and a
white person; a personq uarter-blooded.
[Written also {quarteron},
{quarteroon}, and{quateron}.]
Definition:
\Quin*troon”\, n.
[Sp. quinteron the off-spring of a
quadroon and a white.] (Ethnol.)
The off-spring of an octoroon and a white person.
(Griffé/Griffoné was also used for someone of African/Native-American ancestry) Musteé is also someone of Native/African biracial heritage.
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Strictly speaking this post should be called “Octoroon Nation”!
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Ty’s post is BS.
You can’t group a bunch of light skinned black celebs and say that they’re “biracial”. How biased. So, Don Cheadle, the actor, is 20% white according to his admixture test. Would he considered the second definition of “mulatto” by someone like Ty?
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Also,
Will and Jada …what’s so “mulatto” about their black asses? Neither of them are “light skinned” compared to the rest of black folks.
All of the celebs you named are no “whiter” than the typical black American.
What do you make of black female celebs like India.Arie, Kim Porter, Kerry Washington and Foxy Brown. They’re all hardly “light skinned” but their mamas sure are?! So, their moms are “mulato” but they’re not?
Please help me figure this out!
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Mulatto seems to be an outdated term in any case. Who uses it in serious conversation or writing? “Barack Obama is a mulatto”, etc? People these days say “mixed” or “biracial”.
Most black Americans are mixed – and not just with white – so calling most of them mulattoes is not useful or interesting. Mulatto used to be a box on the U.S. Census form but no one thinks that way any more.
So mixed and biracial is limited to those who have a parent who is not black, like Barack Obama or Alicia Keys, but mostly only if they see themselves that way (as Obama and Keys do not – they see themselves as black).
Related to this is an interesting post on Mirror On America about the Obama girls being seen as biracial:
http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2009/01/dear-confused-white-people-malia-and.html
It is curious and sad how white people want to see the Obamas as anything but black.
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Wow, the ignorance and prejudice is just burning thru cyberspace
All I did was provide background (historic) weither or not it’s outdated. There is a lot of information that we don’t use anymore, that is still ‘history’ And there are people who still refer to themselves as mulatto.
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mynameismyname
You are blinded by the One Drop Rule. I never said all of those people are biracial. I list a group that would be considered ‘mulatto’ who are of biracial parentage. And according to the 2nd definition of the word (please just look it up in the dictionary) the 2nd group would be considered ‘mulatto’ but generationally. I never said the 2nd group was biracial.
When you already have a premeditated bias you see thing that are not even written.
Black & White are social/political identities. They have nothing to do with a persons genetic makeup. Someone who can pass for white(mulatto)ie Adam Clayton Powell as well as his(quadroon)father identified as ‘negro’ Yet these 2 men looked European.
The post I presented was not reclassifying anyone against their chosen identity. Barak Obama is (biracial) yet he identifies as Black.
Black American really need to wake up and see reality as it is. Even Alicia Keys(1/2Black 1/2Italian)made note on her trip to South Africa that her classification there was Coloured, not Black. There is a different “racial” view in Latin America, Brazil…
The world really does not revolve around America people.
You all fight the MAN, yet you accept his made up laws such as the One Drop Rule. And you use dirty language to tear someone down who is just plain ol educated in historic dealings such as this.
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mynameismyname Says:
You don’t want to be helped.
I provide book definitions and you still don’t get it. Jada 1st of all tans, and so has Will. They are obviously mixed(genetically). Let’s talk rationally,please. Enough with the attacks and name calling. Both of Jada’s parents are fair skinned and Jada as well as her mother and brother have naturally curly/wavy hair. That is not a genetic product of their W.African ancestors.
Jada herself has talked about living in a certain part of town that it wasn’t cool to be lighter skinned and have long hang. There is a difference and the girls used to fight her because of it.
I never said that dark skinned persons are not mixed. I noted Rachel True and Boris Kodjoe, as well as Giancarlo Esposito(don’t get more Italian than that) who are all Biracial and in my opinion darker skinned.
My paternal grandfather is dark skinned with straight hair and very fine features and he is biracial(1/2Black 1/2Blackfoot(Native-American) Kenya Moore, And Kim Porter is visually mixed, you can tell she has admixture. Just because I didn’t name every celeb doesn’t mean I was purposely keeping other out. Mia Cambell(author Bebe Moore-Campbells R.I.P. daughter) is dark skinned with naturally wavy/straight hair.
From my understanding Foxy Brown’s mother is 1/2 Polynesian or something. I don’t have the full story. Model Tyson Beckfords grandmother is Chinese and his mother is 1/2black 1/2Chinese (Hapa is a very new term used for someone of mixed Asian ancestry)
And please there are many ‘black’ folk in america who look just like their W.African ancestors.
Your attacking me, because you color complex.
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abagond
Yes, I would say it’s outdated. Again I posted this information from an history perspective on how different history was in America as well as in different regions. There is a reason Creole is an ethnic term in Louisiana, but that didn’t develope in other slave owning states.
Actually there are a lot of people who still use that term for themselves.
Most black Americans are mixed – and not just with white – so calling most of them mulattoes is not useful or interesting.
Again if you read my post I also included terms for (historic)Black/Native-American mixes (have you check out the book Black Indians?) Most blacks & whites are mixed from a longterm genetic sense. Yet many of these people you couldn’t look at as say ‘this black person has visible Euro admixture’ or ‘this white person has visible African admixture’ But there are a good number that range from light – dark who have visible Native African and/or European admixture.
No ‘mixed’ is not limited to those who have a non black parent.
Biracial is the term for someone with 2 parent from different ‘racial’ designations such as Barak, Alicia Keyes, Giancarlo Esposito, Faith Evans,Rachel True, Thandie Newton,Derek Jeters,Amerie.
Johnny Depp, Val Kilmer,Cher are (mestizo)Native-American & Euro(biracial)
Cree Summers,Marion Meadows(sax player)Kenya Moore have Native-Black recent admixture. Cree & Marion are (griffe or Mustee(biracial)
What I’m dealing with has nothing to do with how the person identifies. It’s not taking away from that. So I hope people would be rational and not react from an emotional place.
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Ty,
You totally appear to have a color complex.
You simply can’t look at someone and decide if they have admixture or not.
That’s completely biased.
That’s like looking at someone and deciding if they’re a good person or not because YOU think they look like such.
I’ve seen Jada’s parents. They’re not that light. Even if they were, what would that mean?
Will Smith isn’t light skinned. Sorry.
Foxy’s mother is black American. She claims to have East Asian blood from her father’s side.
“Mulatto” is an outdated term and an offensive term as well. So are those other terms this Ty poster is using (“griffe”, etc.)
And would you internet people PLEASE STOP USING CELEBRITIES TO RATIONALIZE YOUR IGNORNANCE! It’s tiring.
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Also,
To back up “Ty’s” ignorance, if you know that the great majority of black Americans are mixed genetically, what’s the point of cherrypicking random black celebs who YOU decide “look” mixed?
That makes no sense. And again, reeks of bias.
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Your a 1 Droppist and you very ignorant. I loath race gatekeepers. Please don’t reply to anything I write again. U completely twisted what I was trying to say. As well you have a low self esteem “he/she ain’t that light”…I’ve seen your type before. That type has gone from putting their hands in anothers hair to test if it’s really curly, to beating up people who you know or mixed or 1/2white because “They think they are better..”
Again please don’t reply to me, But you will reply because you have no self control. Bye bye.
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Ty: I think where the confusion came in with your comments is that you took old, historical terms and, in order to explain them, applied them to living people. That made it sound kind of wrong. Like calling Michelle Obama a Negress. But I think I get what you were trying to do. Thank you.
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Maybe mynameismyname is a One Droppist, but then so is American society as a whole.
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Aba,
How am I am “one droppist” when I’m always acknowledging that the majority of black Americans are a mixed race people?
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Also Aba,
I’m ignoring this “Ty” person’s bizarre e-attack (he/she appearantly has serious race issues as well as god-awful grammar) but isn’t it rational to wonder why someone would seperate selected individuals from their “racial” group as “racially mixed” based on their perception of their phenotype when it’s common knowledge that the vast majority of people of that “racial group” are indeed, racially mixed?
I mean, am I crazy, Aba? Because that’s all I was saying.
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abagond,
If you read post 25
mynameismyname Says:
Ty’s post is BS.
You can’t group a bunch of light skinned black celebs and say that they’re “biracial”.
First off, this person straight out attacked me and it was pointless, mynameismyname, set the tone of disrespect. And totally misread what I was saying. Yet I understand the reaction because 1Droppist alot of times like to keep things/people in check/gatekeepers.
Mynameismyname, said I grouped a bunch of celebs and called them biracial. Which is a complete lie. All one has to do is read the post. I specifically said there are those who are biracial and those who are mixed generationally.
A One Droppist says “Yeah your mixed but your still black aren’t we all…”
I remember being in an orientation and sitting next to a black girl, who recongized I was mixed someway. She askes, what are you/what are you mixed with? I answer and she replied “well your still a nigga”
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The one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the United States that holds that a person with any trace of African ancestry is considered black unless having an alternative non-white ancestry which he or she can claim, such as Native American, Asian, Arab, or Australian aboriginal.[1] It developed most strongly out of the binary culture of long years of institutionalized slavery.
This notion of invisible/intangible membership in a racial group has seldom been applied to people of Native American ancestry (see Race in the United States for details). The concept has been chiefly applied to those of black African ancestry. As Langston Hughes wrote, “You see, unfortunately, I am not black. There are lots of different kinds of blood in our family. But here in the United States, the word ‘Negro’ is used to mean anyone who has any Negro blood at all in his veins. In Africa, the word is more pure. It means all Negro, therefore black. I am brown.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
This is a pretty accurate account of the One Drop Rule
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responding to post 25
abagond Says: But I think I get what you were trying to do. Thank you.
Actually I didn’t apply those old terms to the celebs, I used the terms(Biracial & Non-Biracial).
And refered to these people as Mulatto in the 1st usage of the definition & the 2nd group in the 2nd definition of the word.
The rest of the post was just an account of historic terms used in various part of pre/post antebellum America.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mulatto
1 : the first-generation offspring of a black person and a white person
2 : a person of mixed white and black ancestry
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By the Merriam Webster definition, the overwhelming majority of black people in the Western world, Don Cheadle and the “black girl” you sat down next to do, would be considered “mulatto” or “multiracial”.
That’s my point.
Also, “Ty” may not know but I actually have connections to Jada Pinkett Smith and her family. Considering the fact that Jada and I are from the same state and ran in similar circles (No, I don’t know Tupac! LOL). So, I can tell you that no, she and her family aren’t particulary “fair skinned” or heavily “European”-appearing. But then again, that’s all perception.
Also, Jada was an “outcast” of sorts in B-More (she actually lived in nearby Pikesville and Randallstown as well) but more because of her outspoken, left-center ways. She was into punk rock and weird hair colors. She also had a habit of sleeping w/ drug dealers but then again …I don’t want to put too much of the woman (or anyone else’s) in the street.
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mynameismyname
I didn’t respond in this forum with the hopes of being attacked.
I enjoy vigorous conversation, but if there is no respect 1 to another then it’s pointless. Let’s agree to disagree and part ways via conversation.
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I keep thinking Jada is from Texas because I first saw her in “Jason’s Lyric” which takes place, I think, in Galveston.
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mynameismyname: you are not crazy, though you might be a one-droppist! All that would mean is that you count anyone as black who is at least a part black African – the common American meaning of the word “black”. I did not say that you were a one droppist, just that maybe you were.
Ty: I think you said Cree Summer was a griffe or something, so it was not just the word “mulatto” that you were applying to current entertainment figures.
Ty (again): mynameismyname calls some of what I say BS too. I do not see it as a personal attack. He is just being emphatic in his disagreement. You were hardly gentle yourself, calling me ignorant and prejudiced and then using “1 Droppist” like it was some slur.
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I gotcha Aba,
But see many people (as evidenced by the comments in the Danzy Senna thread) see being labeled “black” as an insult, a slur, a taint. So, they get very upset and attack your character when you point them out as such.
It’s less about one drops or two drops and more about how the term “black” and the conutation (sp?) that comes with it that many people want to avoid by being thought of as such.
But like I said, I’m proud of my heritage (all of it) and I’ll never deny, play down or attempt to dilute it!
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abagond Says:
That post was after the fact and it was in post 31. And it was only in response to the other persons “what about this person what about darker people, what about Nativemixes” this same person used Celebs too. My original was post 23(and that is where the other person attacked me. Not at post 31(which was directed at you)
BS means =bull sh!t. That’s a total disregard for someone what another person believes or who they are, it’s personal.
I didn’t call you ingnorant directly, it was in response to the overall tone, mainly from the other responder.
My response to U was post 31 and it’s the total opposite in tone. I never called U a 1Droppist. And personally I think it’s the same strain as a racist. The 1Drop Rule is racist.
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Historically Enforced More by Blacks Than by Whites
http://thestudyofracialism.org/viewtopic.php?t=5321
Except for one 50-year period of U.S. history, the one-drop rule has been believed more strongly and enforced more harshly by African-American political leaders than by White Americans.
The exceptional period was the Jim Crow era of state-sponsored terrorism against its African-American citizens. During the Jim Crow period, which ended around 1965, the one-drop rule kept compassionate White families in line by legally exiling to Blackness any who defended Blacks against the terror. During this period, the one-drop rule was never legally applied in court to any family who self-identified as Black. It was used only against Whites.
In all other periods, from the 1830s to today, the one-drop rule was and remains an instrument of intra-ethnic coercion by African American political leaders against those born into the African American community who choose to self-identify as something other than “Black” in adulthood.
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I understand that blacks have an interest in applying the One Drop Rule – it increases their numbers. But I seriously doubt black leaders have the kind of power you are talking about. After all, if I can pass for white, then why would I care what black leaders think? How can they stop me? For it to work, most whites must believe in it too.
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You think blacks believe in the “one drop rule” to increase their population?
Huh?
Blacks who are a product of interracial parentage are a tiny minority.
There was even did a mock estimate a few years ago, eliminating the blacks who checked off more than one race on the Census, those omissions amounted to less than a 1% decline.
So, numbers have nothing to do with it. It’s white America who decided that having any significant African blood makes you at the very least, “not white”. Black folks are simply just following the rules.
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Dude calm down, I was just posting a bit of info on it, which is where the link came from. Those are not my words.check this site out, you’ll get a good understanding of it. We have the correct studies of the Census questionare as well is the connection with ‘black leadership’ NAACP does not support the multiracial catagory.
http://thestudyofracialism.org/But to reply to your statement, if you read the whole thing you would see that, yes it is white America that made the rule, BUT black americans have taken it on is a rule of truth. Black Americans (because of more social/family connections) are the most vocal about continuing the idea of the 1Drop Rule. It’s black american that question and challenge others when they say they are not black or identify as mixed or biracial. It was black america that went after Tiger Woods when he said he didn’t identify only as black. When I was in college there was a biracial girl in class(sociology)while in a discussion said she “isn’t 1 color she is 2, black & white” and it was the black kids that went after her, to the point one male student followed her to her next class calling her a ‘white girl’ and making other derogatory comments.When the black girl I was sitting next to asked me what I was mixed with and then proceeded to remind me I’m still just a nigga, was a way of pushing that 1drop rule.Do whites do it too? YES!!! in some places its very much blatant. In others it comes in different from such as ascribing racial stereotypes to the person they notice is of black heritage. And then there are a lot of white americans that don’t have much knowledge of it. Because socially they don’t have or didn’t have much interractions with blacks and mixed people. But for the most part it is people of black ancestry even those ‘biracial or mixed’ that ‘inforce it socially’ now.
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Abagon,you are wrong about jonny depp his great grandma was half indian half african american , johnny depp is a creole.Look at the blog famous creoles and you will see the information.Johnny had no choice but to hide his african american roots , i don’t blame him if he said he was part black will he be famous? he will be consider an african american actor it is not a good thing in america.Even though he looks indian he is multiracial part african american.
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I a women from Europe who is multiracial ,i am very mixed , in Europe i am not black in America i am black because i am part black , i have north african berber ancestry as well ,bunch of ignorant people in America , one drop rule.I was shocked about North Africans are consider white in the States , because jackee the actress from 227 and sister sister she is a north african berber ,she looks like one and she is consider black . Many white people in the states don’t know what is a north african or an arab they only know what they are told.I am part berber i have alot in my ancestry ,i look south east asian the dominant genes any ways.America is not the world , and the world don’t really think as Americans.
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Oleu,
I always found Johnny Depp to be racially ambigious. Yet, I wouldn’t trust some shoddy website for information concerning his ethnic lineage.
Jackee Harry is from North Carolina. She’s traditionally black American, most likely with strong Native roots as many blacks from that region are prone to be.
The whole “One Drop Rule” only applies if you LOOK Negroid-influenced. If not, then you may not be looked at as black unless it’s known you have “black blood” or black relatives OR you identify as such. From what I know about the UK, the same applies there more or less.
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Oleu: I did not say anything about Johnny Depp here, though do I have him down as a Creole here:
That does not necessarily mean he is part black, though.
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I know that might seem unsettling to some, maybe even unnatural somehow.
I think I know what you’re talking about. (Let’s see if I do).
I don’t have any personal experience, but I am a writer (well, amateur writer at least) and sometimes I share my stories with my online friends.
There’s one story about fictional fantasy land and the way I described people or named them, it was clear some of them were white, others black. Well, at least looked white and black. However, the world I created didn’t know of racism or race, so people mixed without any problems.
Some people who read my story liked it. Americans liked it, but disliked this part. They said it was “forced”.
I was surprised with those comments, especially since people in question aren’t the ones who are against interracial relationships.
To me, mixing is something… well, I won’t say “normal” but it’s certainly natural. However, what is also natural to humans is to dislike people who are different to them, so the idea of not mixing is also really logical. It is unsettling to me, but I know it’s realistic. More realistic than mixing, perhaps.
That still doesn’t mean you can’t make a world where black and white people would mix without any problems, and where some other things, such as language for example, are used to set a difference between “us” and “them”.
Making at least semi-correct generalizations isn’t easy, but I’d say that Americans disliked my idea of a world where race isn’t an issue. Well, not disliked, but they see it as “forced”. And yes, it was clear I was writing about a made up world.
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I also wish that people understood that America also is not just California and New York. Thanks for this post.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/vansallees.html
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Thanks for the link!
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I really do both like, and agree with, what you’re saying, but can’t we amend it to be a MIX of Europeans and minorities?
I’m not sure that we can really call this just a Black and White country… I’m not sure that we ever could.
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Many people think that racial divisions will fade away and a “mulatto America” will emerge over time, but I’m not so sure. The fact that coercive practices are still being employed to prevent actual mulattoes from identifying as who they are is an indication that the old divisions remain strong. Not only are political blackness and political whiteness still widely embraced social orientations, but now we see the emergence of an aggressive Hispanic identity politics as well. Given that the country is growing ever more diverse, social cohesion increasingly demands that such divisive tendencies be stifled.
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Continuing from the previous post, perhaps a solution to the country’s current divisions is the development of a thickish American identity that can be adopted by people of all colors and backgrounds, including immigrants. Right now, American patriotism basically amounts to ignorant flag-waving and jingoism. Nevertheless, a deeper patriotism is possible, one based on a critical appreciation of the nation’s political, philosophical, literary, and artistic traditions. Individuals could be given the option of identifying as American first and members of a racial or ethnic group second. David Hollinger discusses this in his excellent book Postethnic America.
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@ FG –
Having served in the military, I can tell you that it is a very culturally and ethnically diverse organization. There are a lot of patriots through & through. I realize a lot of people have the stereotype of patriots being rural redneck flag waving zealots; However, that is not the case. Patriotism comes in many forms from all Americans.
I wish America was more like Brazil where we all identified as Americans – in the same way Brazilians patriotically identify. As for Mulatto America, it is happening to a degree. I would say we’re moving more towards the “melting pot” we’ve always claimed to be.
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“I realize a lot of people have the stereotype of patriots being rural redneck flag waving zealots; However, that is not the case. Patriotism comes in many forms from all Americans.”
True, true. I generalize too much.
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A true “mulatto nation” can’t emerge as long as the population is divided into self-contained, competing ethno-political blocs (“races”) and cross-cutting mixed identities are discouraged and ridiculed. What’s needed is a reconfiguration in how identity and social order are conceptualized. There currently exist four major ethno-cultural spheres in the US (“white”, “black”, Hispanic, and “Asian”) that have partly emerged as a result of phenotype-based stratification. The white/black cleavage is strongly conflictual, the white/Hispanic one moderately conflictual, but whites and Asians on the whole appear to have a pretty congenial relationship. These are the facts on the ground. The growth of “minority” populations combined with the continuation of antagonistic identity politics bodes ill for the cohesion of the nation as a whole. But perhaps mixed race identity can offer a partial solution. First, a distinction needs to be made between ancestral origins (“race”) and ethnicity. During the 2008 election cycle, a silly controversy took place over whether Obama is “black” or “biracial.” This confusion results from a conflation of race and ethnicity. Ancestrally, as everyone knows, Obama is close to 50% European and 50% African. Thus, he is mixed or biracial by race. However, in adulthood, he socially integrated into the black community and is thus (nowadays) African American by ethnicity. Obama is therefore a mixed African American. Some in the American mixed community attempt to embrace all of their cultural origins, but it would seem that this is too complicated a task for most. Perhaps the majority then have a dual identity as both mixed and whatever ethnicity they gravitate towards. There needs to be acknowledgment that this doesn’t pose a contradiction, that it’s normal and acceptable to think of oneself as mixed but also the member of a ethnic community associated with a particular continental origin. The ethnic group is very important because it provides sense of belonging, stability, cultural traditions, etc. But mixed identity can also be substantive and important. It creates a community based on common experience of having parents of different “races” and/or possessing racially ambiguous appearance/features. Such a community can act as a source of psychological support for, and work to eliminate bias and discrimination against, mixed race people. However, the benefits of dual identity would extend beyond just those of mixed background. If large numbers of people belonging to one the four ethnic blocks also identify with ALL mixed race people (regardless of ethnicity), ties of affinity would develop between the “races”, presumably leading to a decline in intergroup tension and an improvement in social cohesion/cooperation.
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Of course, such a proposal would face much opposition. There are ethno-militants of all colors who want to maintain hypodescent doctrines that forbid white-identification for mixed people and even mixed identity. This opposition is most extreme with respect to multiracials of partial-African origins, but seems to be expanding to include even Eurasians (maybe so they don’t set a bad example?).
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A true “mulatto nation” can’t emerge as long as the population is divided into self-contained, competing ethno-political blocs (“races”) and cross-cutting mixed identities are discouraged and ridiculed.
I agree… It is the “Separatist mentality” that prevents true unity. It is the “either/or” categorizations that divide rather than unites.
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Damn I wish I could be alive to see an America where most people are a light brown color with 2 or more races in their veins.
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If the USA had not had much immigration after WWII, it probably would have finally headed into a mulatto nation situation,
But with the increasing influx of mestizo and Asian populations which escalated starting at least 2 generations ago (growing faster than either the Euro- or Afro- components), the America of the future will have a significant contribution from non-African, non-European sources. perhaps a mix similar to, but not exactly the same as many of the other countries in the Americas.
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Did not realize that was Zoe Kravitz in the picture. Cool.
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That would be beautiful to live in that world
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This may be true, but having become familiar with the strength of White Supremacy and Eurocentrism and anti-black and anti-African tendencies, they can still live on quite well in a mulatto nation. Aside from that I personally believe that blacks for hundreds of years have been ready to accept this step, but White Americans have not, due to the above mentioned tendencies. Even if this happens I would still be hugely upset at a Mulatto population who praises its whiteness and Europeanness and degrades its blackness and Africanness and who is fully educated about its white side to include Eurocentric lies and completely ignorant of its black side, as well as modern and ancient black history. Because that is pretty much the situation throughout Mulatto Latin America.
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You’ve come a long way since this post A. This seems a little more All Lives Matterish tbh. I’m more use to your stuff of the last couple years.
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