On “Oprah” in 1997 Tiger Woods, a world-famous American golfer, told us that he is not black but Cablinasian. The word comes from the four races that make him up:
- CAucasian
- BLack
- INdian
- ASIAN
According to the Wikipedia, Woods is:
- 12.5% Caucasian (white, particularly Dutch)
- 25.0% Black
- 12.5% Indian (Native American)
- 50.0% Asian (25% Thai, 25% Chinese)
He made up the word when he was 16. He said calling himself black would mean denying his mother, who is not black at all but Asian – half Thai and half Chinese.
Thai Americans say he has a Thai sort of face. Thais see him as one of their own just as much as black Americans do. Woods says, “In fact, I am both… Truthfully, I feel very fortunate and equally proud to be both African American and Asian.”
But because of the One Drop Rule in America, if you look even a bit African you are seen as black. So to most Americans Tiger Woods looks like a black man, not like someone who is Asian or even mixed (unless they stop to think about it).
Woods knows all about the One Drop Rule. It has kept him off of at least one golf course. As someone who has succeeded in such a white sport, he has to know a thing or two about whites. Probably more than most.
Yet Woods says things like, “If people cannot call themselves what they want to call themselves, they cannot call themselves truly free….”
A nice thought, surely, but that is not how it works in America: if you look black you are black. You are stuck with it. For life. Everyone else in American society will see you as black and act accordingly: the police, the judge, the loan officer at the bank, the estate agent, the little old white lady at the bus stop. Even the Golf Channel. No matter what you call yourself.
Tiger Woods is no different, but acts like he is. He seems to be the only one who does not understand he is black:
- When white golfer Fuzzy Zoeller said Woods was “a fried chicken and collard greens eating sambo,” and called him “that little boy,” Tiger spoke with him and forgave him. The white world certainly did not: Zoeller never golfed again.
- When white television host Kelly Tilghman of the Golf Channel said the younger players should “lynch him in a back alley,” and then laughed about it, Tiger said, “We know unequivocally that there was no ill intent in her comments” and “a non-issue in our eyes. Case closed.” The Golf Channel was not so understanding.
- When the state of South Carolina flew the flag of the old South, the one from slave days, and the NAACP asked Woods not to golf there, he said, “I’m a golfer. That’s their deal, not mine.”
Maybe he is trying to lead us to a new age where skin colour no longer matters. Or maybe it is what Nas said: a character flaw.
See also:
have no issue at all in him wanting to acknowledge his parents, but what offended me they way he announced that he was calablasian. he did it in a fashion that seemed to present blackness as something he did not want to be associated with. as if blackness was a deeply horrible shame.
oh well. he’s a loser.
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he did it in a fashion that seemed to present blackness as something he did not want to be associated with. as if blackness was a deeply horrible shame.
lifeisannoying Says
I agree with the above. Even with all of that, blk folks still feel proud of him. It’s funny that he is on the dark end of the spectrum and he wants to talk about his mixed hertage when people who are much lighter like Alisha Keys make no big deal out being mixed race.
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Tiger Woods is multiracial. But given the sordid history of race in America, vast majority of Americans consider him Black and nothing else, despite his diverse ancestry. Eighty to ninety percent of Blacks(me and my family included) are multiracial and multiethnic. Again, given the polarization of race relations in America, we’re Black.
I wish sociey is beyond such mentality but, again, given the sordid history, it’s never going to happen.
I wish Tiger and his family all the best.
Stephanie
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Acknowledging your parents is one thing but trying to deny your “Blackness” is something else. Like LaRenya says most Blacks in the US, Caribbean and Central/South American have a mixed background but in my eyes that does not make them any the less “Black” but again it’s a choice one makes. To be and love your Blackness or to run away from it and try and hide in some other identity.
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He is using his mother as an excuse. Halle Berry sees herself as black. No one thinks she is denying or disowning her white mother by doing that.
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Tiger Woods is right to describe himself as multi racial, multi ethnic. The one drop of black blood rule was racist to keep darker peoples in line and the white people have priviledge. If your great great grandmother sixteen generations was black and you have white skin and green eyes, are you still black? We black people need to refine ourselves, if you have two parents, who are black, you are black, if you have one black and one white, native american, Hispanic, Chinese or whatever you are biracial or mixed race. We want to claim everybody, who has black blood is black. It is an insult, no wonder black women get upset and confused, because some black man are clearly calling for mixed race women, and they like the look they have, we call a black person black and she is clearly mixed racial or multi ethnic, very fair skin, green eyes and curly blonde hair and black person with African features, woolly textured hair, dark skin, dark eyes. How can we compete with that, the women are clearly different and from different racial groups. Let people who are multi-racial celebrate, who they are and black people with black parents, mother and father celebrate who they are. Those people who created the one drop rule were possesed by evil because they felt being white, they were a pure bred, and they wanted to stop, the interracial matings between people of mixed races, so if you looked white you passed for white to survive. Same way like the pencil test in South Africa, the re-classification of white, black and coloureds, but it is too late then, and certainly too late now. Mixed race people birth is increasing. Quoting the one drop rule is not relevant in this time now, so why are quoting this test. The whole of white southern americans have black blood maybe they should be regarded as black too. Halle Berry can say she is black but she is mixed race, now she had a daughter with a white man, what is she going to claim her child as now. We don’t need to add Halle Berry, Alica Keys or Mariah Carey as black people. Let us celebrate Estelle, Angie Stone, Beyonce, Kelly Rowland, Dr Benjamin Carson, we had enough fine and worthy black people already. The whole of Africa, West Indies, Guyana, Brazil, is full of worthy black people, who are doing great things, we waste so much time concentrating of racist, demon processed Europeans, who have no power, most of the Jim Crow lot are dead, and dying or very old and with all the lyching, burning, killing. They still could not stop the hand of God. Grand-parents are alive to see their sons marrying black, native american, Hispanic or whatever and they cannot do anything about it. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Lenny Kvaritz, celebrate them as people of colour, not but black, don’t insult black people and it is not helpful to have a discussion about Tiger Woods, because he is nothing to with us and we need to get on with our own lives and get our money and be wealthy ourselves and we can help ourselves and remove the BET rubbish, how they are showing black women. I wish Tiger Woods and his family, all the best, he is great inspiration for a people of colour, but we are great inspirations ourselves.
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Tiger is CRAZY. He doesn’t see himself as a human being. He needs to know BLACKS are the first and oldEST man on the planet. BLACK GAVE LIFE TO ALL OTHER HUMANS.
Elin is not beautiful at all. I just don’t see it, sorry.
I wonder if he’s gonna trade her in when she gets old because those women age fast and you know how black men are. They are not attracted to old white women.
Moe
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He is young and kind of in his own world. He will snap out of it. Give him time.
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tiger woods should be able to identify himself with whatever he chooses.
people like to stir up trouble. reporters like to ask him stupid questions about the lynching and such JUST to upset black people.
and the naacp needs to mind their own business sometimes.
stop worrying about tiger woods and do something about education in american. equal quality of education for black children.
i am tired of people who don’t care to acknowledge their blackness or who want to push it as far away from them as they can. they can do what they want.
let’s not focus on them anymore, then.
and if people think we are ugly w/o mixed people SO BE IT!! it’s not what they think it is what WEEEE think.
forget tiger woods! i don’t like gold anyway!
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Good point, but the trouble is Tiger Woods is world famous, he is not just some fool who lives down the street. What he says is heard by millions of people and it affects how they think of blacks. And if you live in America that matters because it shapes your life as much as bad schools can. You can have way more education than most white people, but that does not stop them from looking down on you and making things hard for you.
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I guess by people’s logic here if a Sikh from India is confused for an Arab he should just assume he is Arab. Yes many Americans will still perceive Tiger as Black. Others won’t. But perception is an exterior thing. One of many influences that create a personal identity. Obviously for Tiger it was enough to put the BLA in Cablanasian. So there was no denial of his Blackness. ut there was no denial of his Asianess, Indianess and Europeaness either. In fact, as pointed out the majority f his ancestry is Asian, and Asians do recognize him as one of their own. If anything, Tiger’s identity is half Black and half Asian because those were the identities of his parents.
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In words he has said he is both black and Asian but he comes off as someone who either thinks he is not black or thinks he is beyond black.
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Living in America and being seen as black is “one of many influences that create a personal identity”, but as influences go it is a pretty big one.
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If you are mixed in Identity, then you are not Black. You are of Black Ancestry. He isn’t White or Asian either. That makes perfect sense. If he had been raised Black then he would be ethnically Black. He wasn’t. Blackness is obvioulsy a big influence as you see many people of mixed ancestry identify as Black, but the influence is not absolute nad many others do not identify as such.
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You are making it sound as if being black is a choice. In American society it is not, not unless you can pass for white. How ever you were brought up and live (your ethnicity), you will still be treated as black (your “race” ) by most Americans if you look part African. It is unfair, it does not make much sense, it is rooted in what made sense to Anglo slaveowners long ago, and maybe it will change or weaken over time, but that is the way it is now. I do not make these rules. They are just a fact of life, like gravity. And when someone like Tiger Woods tries to act as if he is not black he seems delusional. He may be rich and famous but in many white American minds he is still that word that starts with n. I thought I made that clear in the post.
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Tiger is more Asian than he is black.
In South Asia there are plenty of Asians who have the same complexion as him.
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LOL, Jake.
He’s black/Asian (w/ smaller does of other ethnicities, as are most African Americans). Woods is very black-looking. Abagond articulated the politics that come with that in this post quite clearly.
As I said in another post about some people’s perceptions of “mixed” blacks, if Woods weren’t famous, and he was a wanted suspect or with his white wife in the wrong place at the wrong time, no one would be laughibly trying to validate/justify him by saying “he’s not really black” or “he’s actually mostly Asian, I know some Thais that look like him”.
I think we all know what they’d be saying then! LOL.
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Right: Tiger Woods can only talk like he does because he is so famous. Otherwise he would just be plain old black, case closed. At least in America. And any talk of being Cablinasian would seem sadly delusional. In America you do not choose your race unless you are ambiguous looking. Tiger Woods is not ambiguous looking to Americans: he looks black.
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its funny that black people get so worked up when a successful bi-racial person wont state ‘I am black’. they act like its themselves in that position, when its not. Its tiger woods there, he made those golf shots. hes the pro, not you.
If he wants to represent all of his ancestry then so be it, even if he looks more black than he does his other racial backgrounds…
now if he was poor, as other posters have stated already…your right. Tiger would be laughed at and seen as delusional for not going with ‘black’. a poor man has no rights, he has to go with whatever he is labled as. But Tiger is wealthy enough to state how he views himself without fear of the black community lynching him socially.
Also for those who are ‘holding’ out for Tiger to ‘see the light’ [lol] and come out as black…dont hold your breath. his wife is white and thier kid looks white. his mixed ancestry is showing through now it seems..black genes are strong obviously but a ‘drop’ does not literally equal a drop.
Once a ‘mixed’ black person starts mixing with non-blacks. the genes dont carry that far!
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As a mother of bi-racial children, I will be teaching my girls that they are half white and half black… because that is what they are. Based on me and my husband’s physical characteristics, I am inclined to believe that my ancestry is from a European existence, while my husband is from an African existence. The same is true of our parents and our parent’s parents. No one knows if myself or my husband has Asian, Indian, Arabian, Latino or any other racial blood in our biology. However, the most we can surmise is that based our physical characteristics and that of the generations before us, we primarily identify ourselves as being white and black respectively… our ancestry does not suggest otherwise. However, my girl’s ancestry does, thus, I expect them to acknowledge themselves as such. To do otherwise and consider themselves black (because of our our simple-minded society and our history’s racial misfortunes), would be to embrace a way of thinking that is primitive and ignorant, not to mention, unfair to the millions of multi-racial children and the parent’s of those children. Society should allow us to be who we are and not clump us in groups. This is done out of selfishness and overblown pride – people want to identify with something or someone that makes them fell better about themselves or to have some control over society. As this country continues to mix the races and become full of brown-skinned people, my belief is that people will appreciate themselves for who they are and we all will embrace the wonders of discovering how unique as well as how similar we all may be. Hopefully, time will erase the evil history that still continues to enslave us mentally – that continues to insist that we must classify ourselves. The real answer to this silly reality is to KEEP IT REAL AND BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF.
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You might want to read what I wrote about being biracial:
and this about the Browning of America:
and this one about Korean adoptees should be helpful:
Here is a good blog about being biracial by a biracial woman:
http://lightskinnededgirl.typepad.com/
Here is a book about growing up biracial. I heard it was good:
Danzy Senna: “Caucasia”
All that said, what you are talking about is at least a hundred years away. At least. In the meantime, if you live in America and your children look black then people will see them as black whether you or they like it or not. Unless you look ambiguous, your race is not something you can pick. The good old One Drop Rule:
To me Tiger Woods seems delusional. We do not live in Cablinasia but in America in 2008.
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“As this country continues to mix the races and become full of brown-skinned people, my belief is that people will appreciate themselves for who they are and we all will embrace the wonders of discovering how unique as well as how similar we all may be”
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I highly doubt that. Once America fully becomes a brown skin nation…we will resort to an extreme form of colorism like Brazil. Let’s face it, the lighter you are, the more status you get and the darker you are, you’re invisible unless you have money. Doesn’t matter what people call themselves, How you appear physically determines how one will be treated in life. White skin privilege and instuitional racism will never end in America.
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Actually Aba,
Mixed by Angela Nissel was be a better suggestion for a book about life as an offspring of a black/white parentage. It’s a humourous light read but it manages to give an in-depth glimpse into the complex experience of living as a “biracial” individual in America.
I read Walker’s memoir around the time it was first released. It’s meandering and often dull. It’s more about her personal exploits and her strained relationship with her famous mother than her personal struggles with race. I wouldn’t recommend it.
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i understand what brianna says and what she wants from life, but i feel that it is unattainable. Of course a child is 50% mum and 50% dad. and they are biracial, but that was not our intial gripe. if tiger had come out and said, ” i’m biracial” then that would be ok! but he said it in a way that seemed to indicate that being mistaken for a black man was a horrendous mistake. that would be offensive to black people.
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I am half black and half Thai. I don’t care how America labels me..that is what I am. Period.
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Tiger Woods is 100% right and justified in believing that he is Cablinasian…anyone who opposes that by sticking one label down his throat is truly the idiot.
All this race crap is so dumb…the US is NOT the deciding factor of what’s black and what’s not. Tiger is considered Black in America, but not everywhere else…so you cannot then say he’s black…it’s all subjective. Plus race doesn’t even exist…it’s a social term.
People REALLY need to read some damn books and acquire actual knowledge…not racist tradition.
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Tiger is considered Black in America, but not everywhere else…so you cannot then say he’s black…it’s all subjective.
I agree it is subjective but America isn’t the only place where he’d be considered Black. Race may have been created in America but it has now carried over across the globe. About half the people who are classified/classify themselves as Black in the UK have one white parent, and it is similar in Canada as well as several other “first world”/”major nations”. (When I say major I am speaking in terms of finances and global power not saying that any country is better than another.)
Even in Latino countries where a number of dark-skinned people are not considered “Black” they are distinguished, judged, and separated by their skin tones. Brazil has more brown and dark-skinned people than light-skinned people but the majority of wealthy people are the light ones and even though many people are aware of this if they were to collect five people and line them and say “guess which one is Brazilian” most people would still probably pick a lighter person than a dark one.
Personally, I like Tiger Woods and I root for him each time. I don’t care that his wife is White and I don’t care if he classifies himself as Black and Asian equally, though the creation of the term Cablinasian was really odd and a bit irritating to me. But at the same time I do think he does distance himself from the Black community and the Black label. He claims to not want to deny either side of him but it seems like he doesn’t have a problem denying his Black side. If someone were to classify him as Asian, I doubt he’d object and say “No, I’m Black too.” But at the end of the day I think society has and will continue to show him that whether he likes it or not he is at least in part a Black man, but I’ll continue to root for him to win each tournament whether he embraces the Black community or not cause he seems like a nice, classy guy.
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I respect and admire him as a golfer, but when it comes to race he seems somewhat delusional – something he can get away with to a degree because of his wealth and his name.
Good point about whether he would deny and distance himself his Asian side as quickly.
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Jennifer, I do believe you’re right when you say that:
“He claims to not want to deny either side of him but it seems like he doesn’t have a problem denying his Black side. If someone were to classify him as Asian, I doubt he’d object and say “No, I’m Black too.””
And yes, the US is not the only country in which he would be considered Black. If he was in Brazil, however, he would be white, simply because he is wealthy. In the US, no one can deny that the “Black” race is defined by having only ONE “Black” African ancestor, except if you’re predominantly white. Because many “white” people, especially those in the western hemisphere whose family had anything to do with slavery, do have African and/or Native blood. Yet no one is walking around calling them “Black” if it’s 10 generations ago, and no one in their immediate family resembles a “Black” person by any means.
And as dumb as the one drop rule is, law also stated that a person has to be 1/8th “Black” to be considered “Black (Plessy v. Ferguson).” So really, what is “Black?” A term created by a group of people to justify slavery, oppression, and social standing in an economic society. Simply put, race does NOT exist, it was created…therefore Tiger Woods, is not Black or White, or Yellow or Brown…well actually, he is kind of brown…but a human of the male species. Race doesn’t exist, it is not genetic, only labels passed down from one generation to the next. Again, he is justified to not throw himself in a box that the rest of society has fallen willing, and blindly, into.
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Tiger Woods would never be considered white in Brazil. Ever. No matter what anyone has read on Wikipedia or any other faulty internet source.
Brazil, determines race the same way the U.S. does, by phenotype and ancestry. It’s just that attitudes towards racial mixture has historically been far more liberal in Latin America, so that complicates things. This explains the color consciousness that defines these societies, the same way general white supremacy defines the U.S.
All the hoopla over Woods’ race, or any other black celeb whose a product of interracial marriage, is more about how blackness is viewed in the U.S. than “multiracism”. That’s why people are dissecting Woods’ background instead of Keanu Reeves’.
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“If he was in Brazil, however, he would be white, simply because he is wealthy”
I wonder if he’d correct someone and say he’s part black and part asian too or is being considered as white the ultimate aspiration for people.
@mynameismyname
There is a phrase “money lightens” but you’re right, at best, Tiger phenotypically is pardo(brown). White as Brazilian model Gisele Bundchen, I don’t think so.
“All the hoopla over Woods’ race, or any other black celeb whose a product of interracial marriage, is more about how blackness is viewed in the U.S.”
I agree
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Wow, some people have obviously NEVER heard of a socioeconomic standing.
And no, mynameismyname, Brazil does not determine race the same way the U.S. does. Brazil doesn’t have a one drop rule. Brazil doesn’t say an 1/8th of “Black blood” allows a person to be subject to segregation. How about you read up on a few things…using a unbiased approach.
Ancestry is simply that, ancestry, but it does not define a person racial or ethnic identity in Latin America. Whiteness is emphasized a lot more in Latin America…not blackness. This is coming from a person who is a product of Latin America. And FYI, Brazil doesn’t use the same racial classifications as Venezuela, Colombia, Panama, Jamaica, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, etc. And Wikipedia, or any other faulty internet source is NEVER MY SOURCE. My statement of wealth contributing to being a definition of whiteness in Brazil is based on personal, first account statements. Phenotype does NOT determine how a person is identified, or identifies themselves in every country. Again, get off of your biased United States racial classification system. And if you’d like to get on scientific level, race doesn’t exist. Black is NOT encrypted in Tiger Woods DNA…nor is Asian, White, or Native American. Those are all man-made titles and classifications.
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There’s no need to argue.
You can rest assure that Woods would never be considered “white” in any country EVER.
Especially not in the color conscious society of Latin America. No matter how much money he has. Were Pele or Seu Jorge ever considered “white” or something other than black in Brazil? Hell no. It didn’t matter that they had money and fame.
Also, like you, I actually know some Afro-Brazilians and other black Latinos. Many of them appear “racially ambigious” but guess what? They consider themselves black and were regarded as such in their home countries. Like I said, the liberal attitude towards racial mixture is the only thing that seperates Latin America from the U.S. in terms of racial classification, essentially.
You’re right, race is man-made, but it’s potent enough for you to argue down someone’s blackness or racial label, isn’t it? Why is it that these online discussions about the need to disable racial classification occur when arguing against someone being “black”? What does “black” represent that so many people want to argue that it doesn’t apply to them or someone else?
You know the answer to that.
Race may be a scientific myth, true, but by judging by the undertones of comments like the previous one, it sure is a VERY REAL social concept.
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“And if you’d like to get on scientific level, race doesn’t exist. Black is NOT encrypted in Tiger Woods DNA…nor is Asian, White, or Native American. Those are all man-made titles and classifications.”
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I think everyone is aware that race does not exist and yet everyone is still discussing categories and classifications of what constitutes white in different countries.
What is white, what is black, what is asian, what native american, etc…What is biracial, mulatto, metizo, zambo, tri-racial, or multiracial? None of terms biologically exist but people still use them everyday and it’s on the census forms which makes race socially significant to some people.
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mynameismyname
You are aware that today’s standards of race are not the same as a century ago, or even before that? I don’t know where you live, but go ahead and ask a person that would be considered an Afro-Boricua what they are, and 9 times out of 10 you’ll hear, “Boricua, cien por ciento.” Not, I’m Puerto Rican, but I got African roots. Go ahead and ask a seeming Afro-Dominican what they are, and in the majority of cases, you will NOT hear them say “Black,” even if you ask if they consider themselves to be Black. BTW, all of “Latin America” is NOT the same when it comes to self-identification. And a person “blackness” is an issue in the United States as oppose to their “whiteness” (or anything else), simply because what group of people criticize when a person of African decent doesn’t label themselves as being 100% Black, or being Black at all. Wow, this one is going to be a shocker…BLACK PEOPLE! “Blackness” is an issue because Black people go with the “You still Black” comment all the time. United States citizens do nothing but pull “multiracial” people every way, until they’re forced to choose.
But back to Latin America…you’d be surprised by how many that come from African ancestry do NOT acknowledge it. They’ll acknowledge the European side before they’ll say, “yea…I’m Black too.” I live this life everyday, so please, don’t try to school “blackness” in Latin American society and families. There are people, like Tego Calderon, who are proud of their “blackness,” but didn’t acknowledge it until he moved to Miami where BLACK PEOPLE constantly reminded him that he was Black, seeing as he has nappy hair and dark skin. And really, how many Hispanic/Latino people do you know that claim Hispanic/Latino is a race? How about almost every Hispanic/Latino person, the media…I can go on…and on.
Look up Rafael Trujillo…a Dominican leader that tried to racially purify the DR…meaning make it WHITER…and in the process of making the DR whiter, he murdered many Haitians, because they were Black. Case in point, most Dominicans do NOT associate themselves with “Blackness.” If they don’t have to be Black in their own island, why be Black in the U.S.
So, my dear, you stand corrected. Their are countries where Tiger Woods “whiteness” will shine through. But he’s more Asian, so I’m sure that might the “race” he’d prefer to go with. Did you know that in the DR, curly hair is frowned upon…especially in the work place. And don’t even get me started on KINKY curly hair. Point being, people get in where they fit in. Brazil is a large country, and every part of it doesn’t see everything the same way. Kind of like how the Southern US doesn’t always do things the same way that the North does…hmmm…doesn’t that sound familiar…American Civil War, anyone? Since we’re talking about “whiteness,” go ahead and tell an true Irish person that they’re the same as the British because they’re both white. I wonder if you’ll get punched first…or making cussed out…?
So spare me any further discussion…but if you want to continue to talk about it, I got answers for days. There are Brazilian people that are of “Black” African decent that will tell you that they’re NOT Black. And there are people of European decent that will argue with you and tell you that they are NOT white, whether they’re from Brazil, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Costa Rica, etc.
Kat is right, race…even though it doesn’t exist…is VERY significant to some people. Which is EXACTLY why certain people are trying so hard to stick Tiger Woods solely in the BLACK category. If Tiger Woods’ family was from Brazil, Black people, and the Black media would not be associating themselves with him…the same way Tego Calderon, Don Omar, Rosie Perez, and Rick Gonzalez have not been on the cover of Black magazines, or mentioned in Black media…Only people like Christina Milian, Tatyana Ali, and Gina Torres have gotten any recognition by the Black community because they have portrayed “Black” people in some shape or form. But good old Fat Joe is in because he’s a rapper, but he’ll never ever say that he’s Black. David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Vladimir Guerrero, Johan Santana, Robinson Cano, and Bernie Williams, will not be on the list of great Black baseball players of 2008…or 2009…or 2010. So I guess that proves my point again…Latin America and the US don’t see race the same way.
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I’ve heard everything you’ve said several times from countless other anonymous internet posters. You absolutely said nothing new. At all.
And, baby, I can recite the history of Africans in the Americas (the Latin regions, espcially). I can tell you Trujillo’s entire life story if I wanted.
So you ain’t educating me about diddly squat. LOL.
If you read my previous post, you would have read that I personally know many Afro-Latinos, many of whom don’t appear “traditionally black” yet: THEY SAY THEY’RE BLACK AND THEY WERE REGARDED AS SUCH IN THEIR HOMELANDS.
Christina Milian and Gina Torres are two celebrity examples (you internet people love using those to justify your views) you use. Both of those ladies have always identified as black to the press. It’s not as if the typical person in the U.S. (and I argue, even in Cuba, where they both originate) wouldn’t come to that visible conclusion anyway. Even if they persisted that they were something else.
(Footnote: Milian and another Afro-Latino, Rick Gonzalez, were racially slurred in Prague while filming the horror flick, “Pulse”. They were slurred with taunts and racial epithets used towards blacks. And Tiger Woods would be be considered white, right? LOL.)
Also, get your information straight, Tego ALWAYS knew he was black. No one had to “remind” him. LOL. That’s hilarious. He’s from one of the blackest parts of Puerto Rico. His songs document the joys and perils of black life in PR.
I notice that the previous poster ignored what I’ve said multiple times. Race is a social construct but it’s a damn potent one. Why else would people be so adamandant about people not being “black”? What in the world does “blackness” mean to people that drives so many people to passionately argue that it doesn’t apply to themselves or someone else?
Please riddle me that, if you so desire to respond.
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DM_88: I understand that ideas about race are different in Brazil, and I can understand that in Brazil Tiger Woods could say he is not black and maybe not raise any eyebrows, but to say he could pass for white that is just too much.
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Damn, I must be the ONLY that can read ENGLISH here…I could have sworn that I wrote on a socioeconomic level, Tiger Woods could be considered white in Brazil. White in this case would be strength, power, wealth…all qualities that Tiger posses in the US. Racially, his “blackness” would not be shoved down his throat like it is in the US.
And as far as Tego goes, he has said that when he moved to Miami, ultimately it was the Black kids that embraced him but they all resembled each other. However, the major barrier was the fact that he spoke Spanish. Which was unusual to these Black kids. And yes, where Tego grew up in PR is a predominantly Black town. I’m quite aware of that. But when many Afro-Puerto Ricans come to the US, they don’t consider themselves Black,until some Black person continuously let’s them know that they’re still Black.
And as far as Christina Milian and Gina Torres go, it’s funny how you only spoke on them. Where’s your defense on all of the Afro-Latinos that I spoke about. Why aren’t they mentioned for their “blackness” in the Black media. And may I say, Afro-Latino is a US term…as well as the general term defining native Spanish speakers. And again, where’s your defense for all the MLB players that I listed? Since you CLAIM to be such a history buff, especially on Dominican history, since you can tell me Trujillo’s life story, why are you not mentioning the lack of Black pride in the DR…especially since the majority of the island is of Black African decent?
It’s interesting, mynameismyname, how you indeed sound like a Wikipedia article. The same Wikipedia in which you mocked. And “LOL,” there’s nothing funny in senselessness. And I’m not trying to educate you at all. You’re the one taking it personal…sweetie. You obviously must be ethnically Hispanic yourself, since you feel that you can speak on just about everything Latin American. Or maybe not, since you’re speaking on other people’s experiences. All of this is everyday for me. In my family, in my best friend’s families, in my closest friend’s family. I am surround by this crap everywhere I go, so you’re not telling me anything I haven’t lived through.
Oh, and let me not forget…Rick Gonzalez and Christina Milian got some slurs thrown their way in Prague…slurs of the Black persuasion. Wow! Surprise Surprise! In a sea of white, where the concept of Hispanic-ness is largely a Western ideal, two people that carry traits of any Blackness would be taunted. Who would have thought?!?!? Note the sarcasm. I wonder if that would have happened to Mariah Carey…? Seeing as her “Blackness” is oh so apparent and all.
And sure, I’d love to respond to your “mind teaser.” Race is a social construct. A few people know that. Most people think that race truly is in a person’s DNA. But those people are idiots…but I digress. And yes, “potent,” as you described it, is the PERFECT word. And black is dirty. Look the word up in the dictionary. Most Black people, are no where close to the color Black, same goes for White people. Yet the word white is a positive word. I believe you’re smart enough to understand that black is associated with negativity, and the Europeans, throughout history, have justified slavery, segregation, and all that other good stuff by Blacks being beneath Whites, even throwing in religion saying truth to that. And if you ever heard of WASPS, groups of people like the Spaniards, Portuguese, Italian, and Greeks weren’t included in their reindeer games, because they didn’t fit the “white standard.” Black has been noted as the most horrific thing to be associated with. Yet ironically, the majority of Black people go along with the social, mental, and emotional oppression that was conjured up hundreds of years ago. But the people who acknowledge being of African decent, but don’t place themselves specifically, or solely, in the “Black” category get criticized and ridiculed by the Black community. Wait, that’s true for everybody. Because like I said, Ryan Howard is the great Black hope of baseball, not Big Papi. I recall reading in Ebony, “Where have all the Black faces in baseball gone? Where are the Black heroes like Jackie Robinson for the Black youth to look up to? They’ve been replaced by Black and Brown faces of Latin American.” Blah blah blah.
So why don’t you riddle me this. Why do people call themselves Black? Why do Black people get so defensive when a person doesn’t claim to be 100% Black? Why are Black people about the only people that have a problem with Tiger Woods not saying he’s Black, and that’s it? Why do many White people take a person’s racial and/or ethnic identity with a grain of salt, but Black people have to challenge it? Of course ANYONE can be racist…but when it come to “blackness,” that’s on the heads of the people that identify as being Black. They’re the ones that make a big deal out of “Blackness.” Why is that? And why I’m asking questions. Why do some people prefer ebonics over English? Why do Black men wear pants hanging off their asses? Why do Black women snap their fingers and roll their necks? Why do Black people say “I’m keeping it real” and in turn keep it real ghetto and uneducated? Why do Black people make fun of the other Black people who who talk “white” and actually want to get an education? Why are Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, (and according to some) Barack Obama EVER mentioned as being sell-outs? Why is being in a gang, shooting people, robbing people, and living life like Lil’ Wayne cool? Why is the population of Black people in jail so high? (And before anyone decides to attack me, I know all Black people aren’t that way).
Hmm…now why in the world would Black EVER seem negative…?
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In reply to DM_88. i thought you might have something worthwhile to say until you started spiting out distasteful stereotypes about black people. No not every black man wears his trousers round his knees, not every black woman rolls her eyes or clicks her fingers and utters keeping it real,some black people are very educated. In conclusion i can only presume that you do not like black people and despise them. You cannot say all those things and know any black people because it isnt true. It isn’t any more true than stereotypes about white or asian people. we all have variation within. Race is a construct but we humans use it to catagorise, cultures and people , its not pc, but it is the truth.
ps you are a troll.
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lifeisannoying: a troll am I?
Wow, that cuts really deep? Yea, not really. I said not all Black people are this way, and I know all Black people aren’t as I described above. I know many Black people, and I’d be what many would call a partially Black person…so the joke’s on you. I answered a question presented to me, why people disassociate themselves from “blackness.” Black is a negative word. Like I said, open a dictionary and look it up. Black people are associated with those stereotypes that I listed above. Not all Black people fit into those stereotypes, but let’s be real ‘lifeisannoying’…There are NO Black people that fit any of those stereotypes? None? Yea…there are many. And there are many Black people who feel that living the life of a stereotype is what defines being a true Black person. How many rappers and ball players are idolized by the “Africa-American” community? Now how many politicians are idolized by “Africa-American” community? Like Katt Williams says, “don’t worry, I’ll wait!”
So if I’m a troll, then you’re simply delusional for thinking that no Black person fits the bill of a stereotype. I LOVE educated Black people that don’t feed into a stereotypical lifestyle. Since you think that I don’t know any Black people, I’ll have you know that over 90% of the Black people I know fit the above stereotypes. Under 10% actually care about an education, or saying no to drugs, or dressing to impress. Shows how much you. But thank you for thinking that I had some good stuff to say before YOU completely misinterpreted how I ended my post. And btw, race was invented to separate people…justify why one group reigns supreme over another. But sorry, let me shut up before I keep making sense.
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Here is you mistake, you are using the black swan analogy, if you’ve never seen black swan you will assume they don’t exist. well you cannot base your assumptions on only the people you know, (you could be a loner living alone whose friends are magicall beings on BET!!). I’m black my family is from the caribbean and emigrated to england in the 1950’s we have been striving to escape poverty ever since, through business and education like many others that share our background and , the fact that you can blithly say 90% of balck people are just lazy slack ignoramuses is cutting to me. It’s just offensive!!
There are black communities outside the African american sphere. We are all diverse.
However back to the topic of Tiger Woods.
Allow me to say just this, if he had said “i’m biracial” that would have been truthful and ok. but the way he recoiled from being (mistakenly) called black made it seem as if being seen as being black was just as heinous as being caught in a pedophile ring. that is what offends me, there is nothing inherantly wrong with blackness. that’s just my two cents!
I’m English and cannot reliably say who African American idolise in terms of politicians, but i will just throw out a few Adam Clayton Sr, Martin Luther king, Barrack Obama, Colin Powell, Angela Davies (yes she is a politician in my opinion).
but her in england we have Bernie grant, paul boeteng,Diane abott and David lammy.
shove that up your pipe and smoke it!!!
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Thank you, Lifeisannoying. Finally, an internet poster with some sense.
“DM88”, has deep issues with black people. That was evident in his/her initial posts. As I repeatedly pointed out, the term “black” appears to have a shameful quality to someone with “DM”‘s mindset. Their hateful, ignorant rant above confirms this.
Get help. Get educated. Get off the internet. Embrace your heritage(s). Learn to love yourself.
That’s all I have to say to “DM88”. I’m done.
One last thing: Since you’ve convinced yourself that those god-awful, no good African American “race” loses sleep over what race Tiger Woods considers himself, why did Fuzzy Zoeller racially slur him? Why did his own white “friend” joke about hanging him? Why do so many whites refer to him as “Nigger Woods”? What about them? Are they forcing him to be “black”??? Consider that.
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Lifeisannoying,
We can also add countless black mayors (Maynard Jackson, L. Douglas Wilder, Kwame Kilpatrick and Marion Berry before the scandals, etc., etc.), lawyers (Johnnie Cochran, Clint Howard, etc.), intellectuals (Michael Eric Dyson, Thomas Sowell, Cornell West, Henry Louis Gates, etc.) and businessmen (Bob Johnson, James Johnson, Earl Graves, etc., etc.) to the list of highly respected pop figures, outside of the entertainment/sports sphere, in African American circles.
Wow, what hateful ignorance on the part of that specific poster, “DM88”.
One thing I love about anti-black people of color like that poster is how they flip the script and point the finger at black folks for all of their wrongs. As if whites aren’t racist and didn’t create the nasty game of white supremacy and racial hierarchy. And continue to perpuate it.
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It amazes me that when a person, no matter what their skin color is, says anything about Black people that isn’t something that a Black person wants to hear, they automatically get on the defensive. And no, I don’t hate Black people…and I don’t hate myself. I am very educated, I I was ignorant, or simply stupid, I wouldn’t be able to carry on in this conversation outside of saying that Tiger Woods is or is not Black. And by the way, lifeisannoying, you did state yourself that you were basically feeling everything I said until you ran across my answer to why some Americans feel the need to disassociate themselves with “blackness.” So mynameismyname, I guess the person you finally have on your side isn’t truly backing you up. Yes yes, I hate Black people! Is that what you want to hear? Well that’s not the truth. I guess Oprah and Bill Cosby hate Black people too, seeing as they spoke on the negativity within the Black community and the negative influence of rap music. Wait, I get it…if a Black person EVER mentions a bad thing about Black people, they’re now a sell out, or somehow get knocked down on their “Blackness” scale.
And again, interesting how you skip over all of my points and get right to the criticism. And I NEVER said 90% of Black people were the way I described…I said 90% of people I know. I just because I know them, that doesn’t mean that they’re my friends. I also said that anybody can be racist…so you know what that means. I’m acknowledging that yes, WHITE PEOPLE CAN BE RACIST TO. And you accuse me of pointing the finger at Black people…you must have skipped the part where you’re denying that Black people can do wrong, and all aren’t good…just as all aren’t bad. But keep believing that you have a valid point. And I don’t believe in race, never have and never will. So I’m not feeding into anyone’s game of white supremacy and racial hierarchy. I don’t go off of opinions, only facts. My opinion is that you two are childish idiots…but that’s only my opinion, so it’s not necessarily true. But I do know this for a fact, Tiger Woods is not considered Black in every country, anyone can be racist, prejudice, and discriminatory. You lack of acceptance that not one Black person can be negative end of the totem pole is absurd. STUPID if you will. And you two are VERY biased. That’s apparent. And I’m never done. Oh yea, here’s another fact. Tiger Woods does not associate himself with being labeled as a Black person. How about you shove that up your pipe and smoke it. So anyone can argue on these boards as long as they want. He’s still “Cablinasian.”
Oh yea, let me not forget to say that a person of color I am. But a person of color who is smart enough to know that in the US, white’s may have invented the ‘you must be Black’ attitude…but it’s the Black people that continue it…of course White Supremacists as well. Which again, is precisely why the only people labeling Mariah Carey as Black are Black people.
Have a Blessed Life!
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They are not being defensive: you say all kinds of wild things, not very well stated and then find yourself misunderstood. That is why you later have to clear up what you meant to say. The three of us read quite well.
I agree with both of them that you do seem to have trouble with the fact that others see you as “partially Black”, as if there was something wrong with being black. That is just the way Tiger Woods comes off too.
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Damn, yall niggaz is on crack! Straight up. Tiger Woods is not biracial, he’s more asian than he is black, and he’s got every right, poor or rich, to call himself whatever the fuck he wants to. He ain’t like those uppity niggaz that only say they black, even if they half white & was raised by they white parent, because they think they can’t get ahead by not sucking up to black people. I’m all for Obama, but that’s the type of shit he’s been on.
Since everyone wants to bring up Latin America, my mom is from the Dominican Republic & my pops is from Puerto Rico. No matter how dark their skin is or how nappy they hair is, it’s gonna be a cold day in hell before they ever call themselves black. I use to spend my summers in DR, & nobody called themselves black. The darkest people would call themselves white before black.
Black Americans are viewed in a bad way by a lot of people. Why? Walk around a black neighborhood, since yall niggaz wanna act like some white person pulled those stereotypes out of their ass. I get some of yall niggaz is tryna overcome & shit, but yo, keep that shit 100.
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I have a strong feeling that “Jesus” and “DM_88” are the same person. Or at the very least, cyberspacers of the same ilk (i.e. posters from the same website).
I actually currently live in a black neighborhood. When I walk around, I see clean grass, humming birds, etc. It’s a normal suburban area. It’s pricey as hell, so it ought to be.
What Tiger Woods considers himself wasn’t the gist of what Abagond was saying. Actually read next time. No one cares about him and what race he claims to be. That wasn’t the point.
Like I said, “Jesus”…that stitled, misused slang lets me know that you’re either the same person as “DM_88” or some type of troll.
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Jesus and DM_88 do not have the same IP address, but they do come from the same town.
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Jesus: of course there are blacks who fit the stereotypes, but most of Black America is not like what you see on television. I have lived in places with drugs and hookers and gunfire, but I have also lived in quiet, middle-class neighbourhoods that were just as black – like what mynameismyname is talking about, though probably not as upscale.
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@Mr. Jesus
You are an unfortunate troll and your fake ebonics/slang is not fooling anyone.
I live in a predominately working class black neigborhood and I see no stereotypes in areas you’re describing. I don’t know where you live but please, return to school and get your GED.
What’s more insulting is your deliberate use of poor vocabulary and grammar. Don’t call people “niggaz”. It’s wrong and plain rude.
Like mynameismyname said, what Tiger calls himself was not the point of the discussion.
Mr. Jesus’s fake slang/ebonics in addition to his misinterpretation of everything that was previously said is completely nonsequitur.
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what’s the black community like in England? Or France? Or in other parts of European countries. I’m curious to know how they view themselves versus how we Americans view ourselves
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I can only answer for the uk really, but over here, we are quite diverse in our backgrounds and i feel that it makes it easier to live amongst the white mainstream. Thye have to get to know you rather than dismissing you all as one homogenious population.
when i was growing up the black population was largely african- caribbean, but now it is predominataly continental african.
we are largely accepting of each other. In the 1980’s there was friction left behind from the legacy of colonialism, ie “those wild west indians/ those ignorant africans”
. My west indian community is decreasing rapidly with it’s rapid assimilation and intteracial marriage rates combined with people choosing to return to the caribbean.
But all in all i love it, my self image , my heritage and my community and country.
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It seems like West Indians marry whites far more readily in Britain than they do in the States. Is that true? And if it is, why is it so?
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The fake Ebonics and use of “niggaz” shows that Jesus looks down on blacks. And if Jesus and DM_88 are the same person, then it is further proof that DM_88 hates being part black. Is it a Dominican thing?
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I know one Dominican and there is one time that really stands out for me when he expressed shame at being too dark. We were in a room and there was a white girl who was talking about how pale she was (she wanted to be tanner). Remarks like that are made all the time and it really isn’t something I would have thought twice about until the Dominican boy said something like, “You guys are making me feel so dark now.” It was odd because I don’t understand why any person of color would compare the darkness of their skin to a very pale white female, and it was also insulting because I was sitting right there. And I have darker skin than him. There was another time when me and a group of people were outside and I overheard a Dominican boy talking about how he was “getting so dark” with all the sunlight, and how he looked, “almost black now.” I turned around and he smiled at me. I thought it was because he was embarrassed or because he didn’t want me to think he was insulting me. The one Dominican girl I knew had very light skin, but got perms and straightened her hair, and also applied makeup to make her eyes look more “oriental.” So this isn’t a judge of all Dominican people, it’s just the attitude that I have met with the very few Dominicans I have come across.
Also, after reading Drown by Junot Diaz, I felt I received a little bit of insight in how Dominicans regard being black. And I don’t know if anyone has seen this http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html ,but it also gives some insight into how Dominicans and Latin Americans, as a whole, view being black.
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You know, Serendipity, I’ve heard so many people on the internet talk about their witnessed encounters of Carribean Hispanics, especially those of the Dominican variety, displaying a lack of regard for their African heritage and for other blacks, in general.
Yet, strangely enough, I can’t say I’ve really seen that in real time. And I grew up SURROUNED by Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. Some of the most militant, pro-black people I know are PR and Dominican. (A few of them are famous). They have talked about how some people of their nationality were obsessed with assimilating into white America and had problems with accepting their black heritage yet I never saw that on a large level.
Almost all of the PRs and Dominicans I’ve known (and trust me, I’ve known plenty, even have some in my family)acknowledged their African and Taino roots. How couldn’t they? It’s written all their faces, their culture, their langauge, their music.
For perspective, Dominicans (and PRs), have the highest rate of classifying themselves as “black”, on the U.S. Census.
That Miami Herald series on Afro-Latinos was deeply flawed. You should have seen the angry reader response they received, from people who felt very misrepresented.
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Ah, well, I don’t have the same experience as you surrounding Caribbean Hispanics, and I will put the Miami Herald in disregard. Yes I did see the angry reader response, but I didn’t know what to think about that.
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In response to abagond, comment 53.
i cannot really answer why so many men from my particular background date out, but i can provide my opinions on why.
lots of my white female friends have had curiousity about black men and once they reach sexual maturity in their teens they can go out with black men, it just so happens that in your teens you tend to form deep loving relationships that become long term, thus with white women being more ubquitous than black women, of course we have a situation where 50% of black men of West Indian heritage are with a white spouse. it was in a report in late january, that my community will soon dissapear. sad!
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That is way different than at least the New York region where it seems like less than 5% of West Indian men marry white.
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“The one thing you can’t take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. The last of one’s freedoms is to choose ones attitude in any given circumstance.” Viktor Frankl
Re: A nice thought, surely, but that is not how it works in America: if you look black you are black. You are stuck with it. For life. Everyone else in American society will see you as black and act accordingly: the police, the judge, the loan officer at the bank, the estate agent, the little old white lady at the bus stop. Even the Golf Channel. No matter what you call yourself.
Perhaps Tiger Woods and Viktor Frankl are wiser than you. Your last freedom is not what others think or do. Yes, there are those who define reality by color. There have also always been those who refuse the definition. Tiger Woods is not the enemy.
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(blushes) I guess the reason I am sensitive to your comments is because I am considered white and my wife is considered black. There are still those who judge us because they wish to impose their decisions on us. That does not make them right.
Re: I agree with both of them that you do seem to have trouble with the fact that others see you as “partially Black”, as if there was something wrong with being black. That is just the way Tiger Woods comes off too.
That is not how Tiger Woods comes off to me. To me he comes off as someone who accepts a larger reality.
Re: I respect and admire him as a golfer, but when it comes to race he seems somewhat delusional – something he can get away with to a degree because of his wealth and his name.
He seems that way to you, and he may seem that way to others. To me he seems to love all humanity. I have a difficult time understanding why he is the one who has delusions.
Re: In words he has said he is both black and Asian but he comes off as someone who either thinks he is not black or thinks he is beyond black.
It’s not clear to me how saying you value your African-American heritage as much as your Asian heritage is a slight to either heritage. I would think a healthy person raised in a loving environment would feel the same way.
Re: You are making it sound as if being black is a choice. In American society it is not, not unless you can pass for white.
It is never our choice how people treat us. Yet, we still can fight the definition. To me, you are making Tiger Woods the one who is perpetuating the perception that others define who we are. To me, you are the one who is accepting that reality. I personally would prefer to stand with Martin Luther King.
Re: the trouble is Tiger Woods is world famous, he is not just some fool who lives down the street. What he says is heard by millions of people and it affects how they think of blacks. And if you live in America that matters because it shapes your life as much as bad schools can. You can have way more education than most white people, but that does not stop them from looking down on you and making things hard for you.
I would stand against Tiger Woods too if he indeed said anything implying black people are inferior. That, however, is not what he said. He said he valued his heritage in all its colors. He said he valued his father as well as his mother. It is sad that a society such as ours fosters even a few people thinking that is a bad thing. Tiger Woods is not the enemy.
Another point of view is that Tiger Woods both embodies and celebrates the best of humanity. I see nothing wrong with Tiger’s heritage or his feelings toward it.
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“I would stand against Tiger Woods too if he indeed said anything implying black people are inferior. That, however, is not what he said.”
Yeah, seriously, wtf people? I don’t get what the problem with Tiger Woods saying he’s of mixed race. As an Asian I don’t get why it’s “bad” he says he’s half Asian. Like we don’t count. Thanks, guys.
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LOL. It is not the Asian part – most black people are mixed with something – it is how he acts like he is not black.
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just out of curiosity,did tiger ever date a black woman?i think it’s good of him to not deny he is asian,but i kind of agree that he emphasises that too much and it makes it seem like he doesn’t like to be considered black,atleast that’s how it looks,i wonder if he will ever be asked what he considers his kids to be..lol,that would be a funny response from him,and since you look black you are,then if his kids look white,what? they white because they look white even if they have “black blood”? just curious how he would respond and how the rest would think about his kids
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He is rumoured to have dated Tyra Banks, but he mainly goes for white women:
http://www.whosdatedwho.com/celebrities/people/dating/tiger-woods.htm
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I doesnt matter what anyone thinks he is or should be, what matters is what he thinks he is. being mixed race is not only about how you look but also about which culture you better relate to, he may feel he relates better to asian culture?
being mixed race i do not want to be called black because im not black. i dont want to be called white because im not white. im mixed and i dont see why thats so hard for some to understand.
in africa where i grew up i never get asked stupid questions cos everyone knows im mixed race. in the western world you’re made to feel like you have to choose between the two. well if i have to choose i’ll go for nothing cos im just as white as i am black and im neither white nor black.
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Dont try and run for black defense now. lol
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Tiger Woods is one man who surprised me. I would have never suspected him to be a cheater.
But trust me, when it comes to s*x, he’s all of a sudden black. Do you hear some of the expressions he was using?lol
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Islandgirl,
Woods surprised you? Really? Me and everyone else sure weren’t. This isn’t the first time, that’s for sure. Like his buddy MJ, Woods has a thing for blondes. Bad. So bad that even his Swedish wife isn’t enough. He was an idiot for thinking that this particular incident wasn’t going to go public. If you want, I can provide you with some further “info” via e-mail if you want…
It should also be noted that I was also called a liar when I pointed out Woods’ ways to people (it goes beyond this incident) years prior to this hitting the public.
And yeah, I notice that his white fans aren’t pointing out that he’s “not black but Cabliasian” now that he and “blondie” had a dispute that happened to go public. Figures.
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I predicted the reaction Islandgirl mentions back in comment #17. I was foreshadowed the very incident that went public because of some information that I knew.
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Myname: Some people in the Black community knew about Tiger’s predilection for Blondes and that he was nothing more than a hypocritical p*ssyhound. I am personally not surprised. Same thing with Michael Jordan when both athletes have made a fortune on being squeaky clean and turns out there were just sanctimonious adolescent womanizers. Kobe Bryant fell in the same boat as well–he only got caught a lot sooner.
And to the question as to whether he is Black or not–he cast his die as to how he wanted to identify–like many Black Bi-racial who find the mere thought of being associated with Black people as repulsive–so if he prefers being Cabawhatever–so be it. I hate forcing Bi-racial to remember where they came from when there are a host of others who have no problems accepting and being part of the Black community. Forcing them in this supposed suffocating Black box (as if Whites or other races would be any more accepting unless you are richer than Croesus)–just makes us look pathetically desperate. To me he is not Black.
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Mynameismyname,
Yes! I guess it’s because he comes off as very straight and narrow. Almost dry. But very focused his image.
Also, his wife is blondest of blond,so I thought that he would be satisfied with her. A match made in heaven. I guess not.
This is just further example of why we should not place celebrities on such high pedestals.
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Also, it must be very interesting to have so much insider info on these figures.
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Islandgirl,
Yeah, it is interesting because I find the masks that people wear to be fascinating. It’s interesting see the contrast between reality and what these people manipulate, distort and spin that reality as.
It also is so fascinating to see how people see celebrities as being of some different caste. When they’re generally even more screwed up than the rest of the world. LOL.
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Why are people saying that Black people are forcing him to choose Black? Here goes that condescending attitudes on Blacks as accepting Black biracials. It has nothing to do with him not identifying as Black, it has alot to do with him acting like it is a freaking sin to be Black. You mention it in his precense he act like you called him bad name lol. Not only that but Black people have been kind enough to accept him and give him all these honorary awards from the Black community such as the NAACP and what he has he done in return? Not a damn thing. Tiger would rather Sammy Sosa himself if he could. I thought he identified more with his Thai side (which is also cool), but I found that out to be hoax. He only mentions his Thai side because it is better to be Asian than to be Black, so in reality I think he would rather be neither lol. Dude has a racial and color complex issue and it’s quite obvious he does. If accepted and loved both, why when that newscaster made that reference to his race, he didn’t even stand up for his Black side? He doesn’t care and probably has said worst about Blacks.
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As far as him cheating, Tiger got to be the dumbest and sloppiest cheater ever! What the hell? Did he not think he was going to get caught? Some celebs are so damn narcisstic it makes no damn sense
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Dani,
Right! Woods, like Sosa, has always disturbed me. His obvious color and racial issues always made it hard for me to truly support his game. Same goes for many other black athletes. It may be wrong but I can’t fully support people who seem to look down on their heritage and have issues with respecting and remaining loyal to women.
Like O.J., going the whole “white blonde trophy wife” route has blown up in his face.
Nothing good ever comes from self-hate.
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Right Mynameismyname, and we WILL see where Mr. Woods is heading from here?
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An interesting article that touches on what we were talking about above:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091206/ap_on_sp_ot/us_tiger_woods_race;_ylt=Ai39UhOSJPjlkdkyR3ioUv2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNuMDRqdjEzBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMjA2L3VzX3RpZ2VyX3dvb2RzX3JhY2UEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM0BHBvcwMxBHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGsDdGlnZXJzdHJvdWJs
Such a biased article but goes to show that black men/white women relationships still gets the collective “side eye”.
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yeah i agree it is incredibly obnoxious and insulting when people assume that just because tiger isn’t calling himself “black” that bp hate him or something. No, when fuzzy made those comments about him not serving fried chicken and collard greens and he was on oprah, i distinctly remember him saying “it upsets me when people refer to me as african-american” and i remember thinking, wait a mintute, wait a minute…are you more upset that he called you black or that he said something that was racist and ignorant regardless?? The guy has issues, i’m sorry his wife put a golf club in his mouth, but all things aside…i really don’t care, sorry to say. It’s one thing to respect and honor all your heritages, but he is just trying to distance himself as much as possible from his blackness and he looks black, i’m sorry he does period.
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It is none of your business who he dates. In Hispanic families they encourage their children to marry white people only to improve the race, the term is called: MEJORAR LA RAZA. Hispanics, especially Puerto Ricans want their children to marry white. Tiger Woods looks like a Thai man without straight hair. Thai people have brown skin, full lips and broad noses just like Tiger. It is only the very insecure black people in America who are nothing but race police, they challenge anyone with black ancestry to openly declare their blackness, and if they don’t, black race police go on the attack. Sorry folks but this is a new day and mixed race persons are not going to deny their racial ancestry just to please those who feel they have the right to tell people what they are.
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#38,DM_88/#46Jesus…definitely the same person. A half black and half Puerto Rican troll. #38. EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE(UGLY STEREOTYPES) CAN EASILY BE ATTRIBUTED TO PUERTO RICANS. Why do Puerto Ricans say,”I’m keeping it real” and in turn keep it real ghetto and uneducated. Why do Puerto Ricans talk ghetto and make fun of other Puerto Ricans who talk “white” and actually want to get an education? Why is being in a gang, shooting people, robbing people, and living like like Fat Joe and Big Pun cool? Why is the population of Puerto Ricans in prison so high for their small numbers. Why are there so many poor, dangerous Puerto Rican neighborhoods, tore-up, run down and filled with gangbangers. Why do Puerto Ricans worship the people of Spain and consider themselves to be Spanish when the Puerto Ricans were the slaves of the Spaniards from 1508 until 1870. Why is Washington Heights in New York (Dominican) a dangerous, drug infested slum. And why do Puerto Ricans preach the doctrine of mejorar la raza? Look at the sty in your own eye before you speak against other people.
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Did anyone hear want Rush Limbaugh had to say…
“The black frame of mind is terrible”…and “Tiger Woods’ choice of females not helping them out either”
http://www.politicususa.com/en/Limbaugh-Woods
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I think it’s quite dread what they are doing to Tiger taking away all his sponsors and him talking about quitting golf, it’s bad how his private and professional life are entangling.
(I mean he did cheat and his wife should divorce his arse but golf life should have nothing to do with it.)
What I observed is because Tiger Woods did his beautiful white wife wrong the white media is going to put this “boy” in his place for doing that to a white woman.
It’s reminds me of Jon Gosslein and how the media is railroading him, I can sypathize with him becasue I saw the way how Kate treated him (via The Soup) and I knew it was a matter of time until he cheated on her.
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I don’t care what the media does to Tiger Woods. He deserves everything that’s coming to him, the man did cheat on his wife, with not one woman mind you, but thirteen! My how the mighty have fallen. She should take him to the cleaners. Infelidelity is gross!
The same white crowd he has been sucking up to are turning their backs on him, putting him in his ‘place’ whatever that means.
The man’s an adulterer pure and simple!
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I think Tiger Woods has the right to define himself by his own terms. He’s an intelligent guy, I’m sure he recognizes that most of America views him as black, but he doesn’t necessarily accept that view. Some Brazilians that consider themselves white would be surprised to find that they are considered black in the United States and would probably not accept that designation even if they realize that society would view them as black regardless.
As for Tiger, if he were even 50% black, I could see more reason why the black community would feel the need to “claim” him, but he’s only a quarter black and mostly Asian. He should be able to see himself as Cablinasian because that’s what he truly is.
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@ Tulio
How exactly do you know that he is a quarter Black? The problem what Tiger is not that he self-identifies as “Caublasian” the problem is that he is mostly obsessed with Whiteness that he felt to include that in his identity when he is mostly Black and Thai. Tiger used “caucasion” from is father’s distant multi-racial or ethnic background, when in all honesty it should be “blasian” because that is what he really is. If his father was African-American and German, then “caublasian” would be appropriate. However, since his father is Mostly Black with disitant multi-ethnic heritage, sounds like he was just desperate to include White in his identity.
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Nothing good ever comes from self-hate.
Mynameismyname, you know it! And I’m not in the least surprised. Elin should have known when marrying him that he wouldn’t be faithful. He’s clearly color struck; he wasn’t marrying her, he was marrying a caricature.
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omg my eyes are bleeding. i cannot possibly read all that and still have living brain cells. wow soooo long. somebody let me know what it says? :-O
AO
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Maria:
Please stop spamming this thread with off-topic articles. If you continue I will mark you as a source of spam and ban you from the blog.
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Whew. Thanks Abagond 😀
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Natasha, there are athletes who cheat on their wives of their same race. I don’t think race has anything to do with this. Michael Jordan, Shaq and Magic Johnson have cheated on their black wives. Kobe has cheated to, his wife isn’t black though.
Fact is athlete’s cheat, period. They have beautiful women throwing themselves nonstop, women that average man fantasizes about but can’t have, they eventually get weak in their will or bored in their relationships and give in. Happens all the time. Any woman that marries a guy that is famous and wealthy and has the adoration of many women should know it’s just a matter of time. I’m not excusing it, but let’s be realistic here.
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Tulio has this one on the money. In fact, I’d go one farther – no, two farther. People cheat, independent of race, period. (I was going to say “guys cheat”, but then I reflected some more).
The simple fact of the matter is that human beings are dirty little monkeys and we need to be spanked.
Now WHY Tiger’s cheating has become a national media news sensation… that’s what I’d like to know.
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Interesting article – it’s given me a lot to think about.
Fuzzy Zoeller, however, continues to golf on the PGA Tour.
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Has anyone seen the vanity fair issue with Tiger Woods on the cover looking all thugged out. I kissed my teeth when I saw it, he has a bad boy image so they thugged him all out and he is one corny dude he looks horrible the only thing missing from those photos are a thug life tattoo on his chest.
I see what the media is doing and it’s stupid the cover just screams BIG SCARY BLACK MAN THAT’S AFTER ONE THING so lock up all the white women Tiger is on the prowl! it’s really pathetic and why would he allow himslef to be photographed that was is beyond me
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Aiyo said:
Has anyone seen the vanity fair issue with Tiger Woods on the cover looking all thugged out. I kissed my teeth when I saw it, he has a bad boy image so they thugged him all out and he is one corny dude he looks horrible the only thing missing from those photos are a thug life tattoo on his chest.
Yes! LMAO! He looks ridiculous.
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Tiger needs therapy, he’s always been one confused, albeit talented nut. I just read some very negative comments to that Vanity Fair article, they’re dumping on him. Why did Annie Leibovitz choose now to release those pics of him? I thought she was better than that, but then again after an earlier stunt with the Queen, I shouldn’t put it past her.
I never bought the saintly family man image to be honest, just another womanizer.
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MerriMay,
Photographers usually have very little control over which (and how) of their photos will be used. That’s all an editorial decision.
I think it’s very transparent that VF decided to go with that particular photo of Mr. Woods on the cover. Very similar to the menancing (and darkened) photo of O.J. Simpson that Time ran after his now-historical ordeal. It’s funny, white America loved Woods and Simpson with all of their hearts yet when something shaky happened with their obligatory blonde Nordic thorphies…that love quickly dissipated.
Goes to show you how conditional the “white club” is to its honorary non-white members, black males in particular.
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Excellent comment.
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I didn’t know his wife was white.
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In the cover of Vanity Fair, Tiger looks (and I could be incorrect) like a weight lifting convict.
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….if tiger woods got pulled over in 1960 alabama at night with a white girl in his car the sheriff wouldn’t whoop the 25% of his him,he would whoop his entire black ass….however we will never know,and i wouldn’t want something like that to happen to prove a point.
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why do people have such an issue with tiger woods identifiying as multiracial??
people need to grow up, he is mixed race..
only in crazy american is there the one drop rule and it sucks
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Hmmm…. Because Tiger is an American living in America?
If you and I view him as multiracial, that doesn’t mean he won’t be seen as black in America.
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@ mira.
sorry if my comment lacks sense, I just think the one drop rule is dumb
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and upsetting for mixed race people
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the one drop rule was made by white racists so I’m suprised many african americans want to hold on it.
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I do think one drop rule is dumb, but I understand why it’s still popular in America. I don’t know why African Americans still hold on to it, as you say, but I always assumed it were white Americans who still apply one drop rule. In that sense, whether your parents are both black or one of them is white, is irrelevant- whites will discriminate against you.
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@ Mira .. yes i guess there is that side to it.
I hope you don’t mind me asking but where are you from? I always wondered because I thought most commenters on here were american..
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I am from Serbia.
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About a half of commenters are in America. Most of the rest are from Britain, Canada and Brazil.
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the one drop rule was made by white racists so I’m suprised many african americans want to hold on it.
I dont agree with the one drop rule. Having two black parents is what makes you black not one. I believe White Americans are the ones who uphold it. Since whites are in power in America if they truly wanted to get rid of the one drop rule they would regardless of how some blacks feel about it. So why arent you challenging them instead of blacks.
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“So why arent you challenging them instead of blacks.”
erm just because I didn’t mention challenging whites doesn’t mean I don’t think they also need to be challenged.
I am not attacking african americans jeez
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I just meant I was suprised to see african americans upholding it in their own communities..
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lucia says,
the one drop rule was made by white racists so I’m suprised many african americans want to hold on it.
Leaveumthinking says,
I dont agree with the one drop rule. Having two black parents is what makes you black not one. I believe White Americans are the ones who uphold it. Since whites are in power in America if they truly wanted to get rid of the one drop rule they would regardless of how some blacks feel about it. So why arent you challenging them instead of blacks.
laromana says,
lucia and Leaveumthinking,
I agree with both of you regarding the one drop rule.
Until MOST Whites decide to DISCARD the one drop rule as a racial classification system, it will CONTINUE be a RACIST tool used to promote/uphold White supremacy/White privilege.
In the mean time Blacks (and other non-Whites) need to ABANDON the use of the one drop rule to identify themselves.
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@ Laramona
you said it what I think except much more eloquently 🙂
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What I hated about the whole Tiger fiasco and how all the girl he cheated on came out is that how everyone was trying make it seem likeblack women were jealous or upset that Tiger didn’t cheat on his wife with black women I even read comments on some gossip blogs where fools were saying he didn’t cheat with black women becasue they have too much drama WTF LOL.
Since he is part asian I wonder did any asian girl get asked stupid questions or asked if they were upset that Tiger didn’t cheat on his wife with asian women.
Leigh204 you got anything? LOL
Still can’t belive his wife took him back, if I was her I would do whatever the hell I wanted and he shouldn’t even think about complaining.
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Tiger Woods does not look Black to me. In fact, he looks more Asian. Idk why people think that racism=black. What racist white people think of you should nv alter your identity.
Though I will say that I can’t believe he never went off during any of those racial incidents.
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“I dont agree with the one drop rule. Having two black parents is what makes you black not one. I believe White Americans are the ones who uphold it. Since whites are in power in America if they truly wanted to get rid of the one drop rule they would regardless of how some blacks feel about it. So why arent you challenging them instead of blacks.”
Co-signed. We need to stop giving whites the power over us. He’s Asian/Black period. It isn’t fair for him to fake being something he’s not for anybody else’s self-esteem. Hell, having two of the same-race parents doesn’t guarntee that people’s blood is 100 percent. This has been going on for thousands of years.
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I fail to see how this is a “character flaw” at all. This article actually increased my respect for Tiger Woods, in light of his womanizing and so on.
Why is everything so negative on this site?
Tiger Woods took the higher ground and chose to humbly ignore the haters. He is a guy who obviously knows how to deal with situations like this. Getting mad just gives them what they want. Brush it off, move on, and let higher forces prevail.
He clearly comes out on top because those guys were kicked out of golf and will never be heard from again. Woods looks like a stand up guy in this case.
I know some of you would have liked him to retaliate and raise a big issue about it. But what would he accomplish? Nothing, he would just look insecure and the racists would win. What did Jesus say about revenge? It seems like he was almost expecting it and was prepared.
He has his vices, of course, but I have always like Woods. He is a tremendous athlete and gives back to the community, and I look forward to his comeback.
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Where I come from, a lot of white people wonder why celebrities and athletes that I would call mulatto identify themselves as black.
I have heard Halle Berry refer to herself as black a few times and she almost looks white to me. On first impression I would have thought she was Mediterranean – Spanish or Italian or something.
It was surprising to me that it seems most black people denounce the one-drop rule (you learn something everyday). I honestly thought blacks were the ones who supported it.
Anyway, I know a lot of whites have often wondered why people like Halle Berry call themselves black when they are clearly mulatto. Just pointing out it’s not a ‘white’s only club’. We’re probably as confused as you are.
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@wpg
Halle Betty looks white to you???? How does she look like a Med? I’m sorry, but Halle Berry looks predominately Black to me, even if she is biracial. Even after the plastic surgery.
_________________
I don’t get these ppl who say HB & Obama look like “obvious mulattoes.” I think ppl are imagining they are whiter than the really are bc something about them socially doesn’t come off as “black.”
That being said Blackness is an identity. Nothing is wrong with her identifying as such. Plz explain to me how say she is Black hurts her or anybody else?
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I agree. I remember seeing Halle Berry in “Boomerang” in 1992 (where the picture on the left in the Cynic’s comment comes from). Back then it never crossed my mind that maybe she was half-white, much less Mediterranean or something.
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It must be kept in mind that evaluations of who looks black or who is black are to a great degree sensitive to social and cultural conditions. Traditionally in the US blackness has been defined very broadly. It probably reached its greatest extent during the Jim Crow era, when the likes of Walter White were considered to be utterly black independent of their own self-identity. Since then, there seems to have been a contraction in the popular definition of who is black. In the ’80s and ’90s, many of the more ambiguous mixed people (e.g. Mariah Carey, Derek Jeter) started identifying as “multiracial”, “biracial”, or even “mulatto” and this was accepted by large segments of the public. Now even some of those who display obvious African ancestry are applying these labels to themselves or being referred as such by others. If the current trend continues, “black” may eventually be defined as looking “straight out of Africa.”
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lucia says,
@ Laramona
you said it what I think except much more eloquently
Thanks, lucia.
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I agree about Halle Berry looking black; even I could tell, and I can’t always tell who is considered black in the US.
Same goes for Obama. He looks even less “mixed” than Halle. True, the guy looks a lot like his maternal (white) grandfather, but just by looking at him you could never tell his mother’s white.
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“That being said Blackness is an identity. Nothing is wrong with her identifying as such. Plz explain to me how say she is Black hurts her or anybody else?”
So, if she were to identfy as white, would you say the same thing ? I think it’s more because of her trying not to use her black audience. I wonder how they feel behind closed doors ? To me, she’s white/black. What’s the problem with that ?
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some people call any light skinned blk a mulatoo.
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Edit: Her trying not to lose her black audience
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I believe there’s disagreement over which group Tiger Woods resembles. Some say he appears black, but to others he looks more like a dark-skinned Asian man.
I’m not a big fan of this idea that being at risk of suffering racism should entirely determine your self-concept. Yes, some white people have perceived Tiger to be black and made racist comments about him. However, there’s much more to life than that. Identity is also related to culture, heritage, religion, etc. I believe there’s a tendency for mixed people to be more strongly influenced by their mother’s ethnic background. Tiger’s mom is of Asian extraction and imparted the teachings of Buddha to him. This sets him apart from people with two black-identified parents, even if he may also experience racism at times for his possession of African ancestry.
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“Tiger’s mom is of Asian extraction and imparted the teachings of Buddha to him. This sets him apart from people with two black-identified parents”
Not really. There are plenty of Black parents who could have also imparted the teachings of Buddha to him.
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@Usagi
To me, she’s white/black. What’s the problem with that ?
That’s the point. There is no problem with her identifying as white, black, or mixed. Her identity doesn’t hurt anyone. She knows who she is better than anyone else and no one should be forcing any labels on her.
I don’t think you know me. I honestly wouldn’t see anything wrong with her socially identifying as white. There are ppl in Latin America who have ancestry that is 50/50 Afro-Euro or Amerindian-Euro and they identify as fully white. They are not hurting anybody.
Even tho I wouldn’t see anything wrong with her identifying as white, I would think it strange. Why? She doesn’t have a white phenotype(yes, I know ppl have diff definitions of what looks are considered white).
I think it’s more because of her trying not to use her black audience.
This is just speculation. I believe that Halle Berry cross-identifies as being both Black and biracial. However, just bc I believe that doesn’t mean it’s true.
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@FG
“I’m not a big fan of this idea that being at risk of suffering racism should entirely determine your self-concept… However, there’s much more to life than that. Identity is also related to culture, heritage, religion, etc.”
Co-sign. My Black identity is not determined by racist. I think it’s foolish to let such ppl have that kind of sway over you.
“It must be kept in mind that evaluations of who looks black or who is black are to a great degree sensitive to social and cultural conditions.
I am aware of this. Many ppl who look “white” in Latin America could nv pass as such in the US or Europe. Likewise, in several countries, no matter the ancestry, there is no such thing as a “light skinned Black person.”
They are called brown, pardo, mulatto, creole just based off of looks. I believe this is one of the main reasons ppl have debates over race in the US. Bc of the admixed-Afro decent population, it would be much easier if we could just call all ppl with visible African ancestry “black” of everyone with light skin “mixed.”
Halle Berry has the same skin color as my mother and sister. This makes it hard for me to look at anyone like who and believe they do not look black, whether they identify as such or not.
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I find it ridiculous that so many of the same people that complain about having White ideals imposed on them are trying to impose White ideals of race on a mixed race person. The one drop rule was used to hold Black people down in America and yet now, where it isn’t even applied in any legal sense onto mixed race people anymore, Black people themselves still cling to it. I see it now as being used as a means for Blacks to swell their numbers and increase their clout. After all, if mixed raced people like Tiger Woods and Halle Berry weren’t seen as Black, then there would a whole lot less Black celebrities out there.
And as already stated, Tiger Woods is only 1/4 Black. He looks like a dark skinned Thai guy. But by using this culturally ignorant American conceptualization of Blackness, most of you just ignore his obvious Asian features. There’s plenty of Thais as dark or darker than Tiger Woods:
Tiger Woods is mixed. He accepts his multi-racial background. I don’t see why others can’t.
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@Sagat
“Black people themselves still cling to it”
Wow… way to put us all under an umbrella. FYI not all of us see him as Black or enforce racial classifications onto him. I’m tired of this “black ppl coercing biracials into blackness” BS. As if we go around constantly asking ppl their race and making sure they identify as we see fit. I’ve known several biracial folks growing up and
1)Most took it upon themselves to identify as Black and got noticeably angered if you questioned their blackness.
2)Their race BARELY came up. Like I said b4, who the hell goes around checking what race ppl identify as? Ppl acknowledge their mixture, consider them whatever, and keep it moving.
Black America is way too big to say we all are pro-one drop rule. Social definitions of race change from individual to individual and society to society. Personally, I’m pro-call urself whatever the hell you want.
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@ the Cynic,
Where did I say that ALL Black people subscribe to this? I’m just speaking of Black people in general and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most Black people in America believe in the one drop rule. I already saw your comments above mine and I wasn’t referring to what you said, but the hypocrisy of some of the other commenters that want to impose their antiquated American racial standards on Tiger Woods when they speak out against exactly this type of thinking on other threads.
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@Sagat
I know you didn’t say all, you just generalized. In my reply I was saying Black America is too diverse to generalize(in regards to the ODR). I do think it’s a stretch to say we are generally die hard one droppers. I have never seen a bunch of black ppl threaten a biracial into IDing as black. I have only seen this online where biracial ppl say either two things.
1)Black people socially coerced me into blackness
or
2)Black people made fun of me, calling me white, and talking about skin/hair.
WTF! How does that even make sense? First, we want you to be Black so very bad we force it on you and then the next minute we are insinuating that you are not Black enough? When I start to see these two clear contradictions, that’s when I start calling BS.
If we assume both of these experiences are true(for those individuals) shouldn’t that suggest their is no one-drop consensus w/in the black community?
Anyways, from what I have seen, their is no such rift between black and half black ppl.
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“I’ve known several biracial folks growing up and
1)Most took it upon themselves to identify as Black and got noticeably angered if you questioned their blackness.”
Yes, I believe a major problem of the biracial population is establishing a solid claim to any identity. It seems that many of those who have come to the conclusion that Black America offers them the most opportunities are worried about their “blackness” being questioned. On the other hand, the minority that attempts to integrate into the white social sphere, are often concerned about efforts to impose black identity.
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I’m ROTFLMFAOPMP at this thread…
It’s very simple. Tiger Woods calls himself ‘Caublasian’ – so, that’s what he is.
I’ll call people pretty much what they want to be called. Internally, I call them whatever the hell I feel like! 😎
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Oh, I see…CABLINASIAN…I stand corrected! 😀
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Cynic says,
I have never seen a bunch of black ppl threaten a biracial into IDing as black. I have only seen this online where biracial ppl say either two things.
1)Black people socially coerced me into blackness
or
2)Black people made fun of me, calling me white, and talking about skin/hair.
WTF! How does that even make sense? First, we want you to be Black so very bad we force it on you and then the next minute we are insinuating that you are not Black enough? When I start to see these two clear contradictions, that’s when I start calling BS.
THIS.
Some of the biracial people I knew in grade school would pick and chose when it suited them. They are black in majority black constructs and proceed to shut down anyone who dares to question their blackness. However, around white and other non-blacks they will say they are mixed
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I TOTALLY agree with Felicity Graham and ANYbody else who says that Tiger should consider himself as Multi-racial! Well, he IS! And our President is BI-RACIAL period!! My neice who is half black and half white IS Bi-racial. She actually LOOKS a little MEXICAN so you could NOT go by her looks to KNOW what race she is. I’m so SICK of some Black people being offended by Bi-racial people not identifying as BLACK! Are half white and half Chinese people CHINESE? Asian features run strong in faces too, not just color! You can be half black, dark skinned with slanted EYES and wavy hair! Still you are BI-RACIAL. I NEVER liked dissing the OTHER half of your parentage(white). Or whatever race your other parent is if the one is African-American or African). Prez Obama has the RIGHT to identify as he sees fit, however, in my and a lot of others’ eyes he is BI-RACIAL despite what ‘most’ of the world may think!! I would say his daughters are of MIXED race even tho’ Michele is black, but they DO have/had a white GRANDMOTHER!! Or, come up with ANOTHER description.
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I wonder is Tiger Woods connects with is black half sister and brothers. When first became famous, he acknowledge himself as being African American. Since then, he acknowledge himself to be mixed. I just see the condiction he made in regards to his race. It wasn’t until after he became famous that he included all other races in his blood.
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@ nikki,
I think that’s the conditioning that our society imparts, but Tiger does have a right to identify as whatever he wants. A huge problem our society has is that we force people into boxes by using “one-drop” mechanics.
There’s this idea that the more famous or accomplished you are, the less likely people are going to accept you are black. That is why the President gets flack for calling himself African American instead of “half-white”, even though the people who are offended would see him (and treat him) as they would any random “black” person if he were an average guy. Due to “one-drop” based classification, you are not able to claim mixed raced status if your features resemble black ones, even if you are less than half black. You are assumed to be black and nothing else.
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I also agree that Tiger has the right to identify as he wants WHEN he wants. I refer to Maria Root’s “Bill of Rights for Racially Mixed People”. Tiger and all multiracials have that right and even those who think he is delusional have some delusions of their own.
Tiger looks rather ethnically ambiguous, actually a little more Asian than black to me, but also a bit neither black nor Asian. He kids perhaps look more Eurasian than Mulatto, IMHO. I have spoken personally with his mother, Kutilda (my Aunt used to work with her on a US military installation in Thailand before Tiger was born), and she is most certainly of Thai / Chinese origin and has been a key influence in his life. Yes, some also treat him as black, and I feel he acknowledges that as well (ie, he doesn’t deny it exactly), but I fully accept that the fact that some see him as black and only black may not be the only or main source of influence on his personal identity. (He is even quoted as saying “In fact, I am both… Truthfully, I feel very fortunate and equally proud to be both African American and Asian.”)
I have a cousin whose daughter is of Chinese-Irish descent who had a son with a man who was of African-French Louisiana creole background (so this boy is approx 3/8 white, 3/8 black and 1/4 Chinese) and this boy looks rather ethnically ambiguous looking to me – — not really unlike Tiger. Moreover, his father is absent — he is growing up with his mother. How is he expected to identify as?
If Tiger had had a brother or sister that many thought looked more like an Asian-looking Eurasian (something like that could have theoretically happened), would people classify the two of them to different racial categories even though they shared the exact same set of ancestors? Even if he did have such a sibling, that person would also have the right to classify themselves as they want to also.
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leave the blacks alone please about tiger woods his asisans fillipino no one ever ask them or his mother about what they think of his choice n women tiger woods is not blacck hw white and asians blons is his preferance leave black alone about this asians man .
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Who cares. I do not understand how Americans are alwasy so stuck up on race. Race is just a social construct at the end of the day and have no truth to it. It is based on wat someone ook like and it was a way of white holding the pwer. Emancipate yourself from mental slavery my people. At the end of the day he has one black and one non-black parent. So no matter how much you put it the man is bi-racial. But i do agree with some people though, it seems like he has a problem with being black and so kiss up to caucasian. But the funny thing is, at the end of the day, it was a bunch of white homewreckers that made for his downfall. Selling their story to the media for some change. So, he gave and he surely did get.
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Genetically, Tiger probably has a lot of black (original genome of humanity) in him..
But i think his identity is mostly centered on him being in a “white” world (The Johnny Carson show when he was like 3 or 4, attending mostly white schools as a child and going to Stanford University before going pro)…so i don’t think he has a leaning towards blackness (as a culture)…
I think his reluctance may not be so much based on his brown skin (there is no way he can deny this it’s too visible), but not wanting to identify with blackness as a set of cultural norms and values.
And he will most likely never have romantic feelings for black or Asian women. Of course i’m speculating but if Tiger was raised in a “white” world, the women in his world are going to be white too. And besides, i don’t even think he has many black men as friends–if any?
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Also is it just me or does Elin’s children look nothing like her?
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” the police, the judge, the loan officer at the bank, the estate agent, the little old white lady at the bus stop. Even the Golf Channel”
If Tiger Woods was a regular guy most people would think he was just black but he’s not a regular guy and everyone knows he’s not just black. So why must we pretend that he is.
Also let’s not pretend that all black people are treated the same in America. The lighter you are the better you are treated. So the police, the judge, the loan officer at the bank, the estate agent, the little old white lady at the bus stop, even the Golf Channel might treat you a little bit better if they know you’re not fully black.
So let’s not pretend that these people are just black. It damages us all more than it helps.
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@Solesearch,
In your opinion what is “just black”?
And i don’t think nor believe that black people as a whole have anything against Tiger Woods and the way he self-identifies…remember it is not black people formulating classifications on U.S. Census applications or job, housing etc. applications…
It was not (us) “just black” people who saw the need to categorize people in the first place based on skin color…
And finally it is not “just black” people who need to worry about racial mixing genetically destroying the “just black” communities of the world…since “just black” people possess the original genotype of humanity and as a result of being original have a much larger gene pool…
Now ask yourself; which group of people are in fact against blackness as a skin color and a culture so much so that they have to create a world wide system to protect their smaller gene pool from being absorbed into the larger gene pool?
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Just wondering
Given that his Dad is something like 1/2 black, 1/4 Caucasian, 1/8 Native American and 1/8 Chinese, and his mom is 1/2 Thai, 1/4 Chinese and 1/4 Dutch, a combination of European and Asian heritage would make up about 11/16 of his ancestry, almost 3 times as much as his black ancestry, and he gets it from both sides of his parents as well.
Would he be offending anyone if he decided that he primarily identified as Eurasian or would he be delusional? In fact, I have indeed seen him appear or discussed on Hapa or Eurasian sites.
For some reason, I see no problem in that or anything else he decides. And if he fails to identify as such, he is not necessarily a sell-out either.
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Laromana: Until MOST Whites decide to DISCARD the one drop rule as a racial classification
system, it will CONTINUE be a RACIST tool used to promote/uphold White
supremacy/White privilege.
FG: I’m not a big fan of this idea that being at risk of suffering racism
should entirely determine your self-concept.
I agree completely. The more people who are mixed or multiracial feed into this idea that they have to choose a race or choose a parent, etc. to identify with, the more power it holds. The more people challenge that idea, the faster that outdated idea will topple. And I am glad to see so many people challenging what is clearly ridiculous when it comes to how some people will view a man who is not even half Black in America. We really need that kind of change.
Abagond: He is using his mother as an excuse. Halle Berry sees herself as black. No one thinks she is denying or disowning her white mother by doing that.
An excuse for what? I admittedly have never paid much attention to Tiger Woods, but based on what you said, he stated that he was proud to be associated with being both Black and Asian. Now I do think his comment on the Tilghman issue was completely stupid. But I don’t think that identifying yourself as what your parents are is an excuse. It is fact and a step toward ridding this country of this weird race White/Black obsession. If no one ever took a stand toward changing things, they would stay the same. Someone has to take the initiative to tell people, “Look, I am who I am and you cannot tell me otherwise. Say what you want but this is how I identify because it is the truth.” Will it take awhile to truly catch on? Of course. Still, you have to start somewhere. And it might be sooner than we think before it catches on, now that we have finally had more minority babies (mixed-race babies included) born in a year than White. As the face of America changes, the attitudes will be forced to change with it on some level.
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@phoebeprunelle
just black is just black. When I fill out the census I just check African-American/Black. When my mother fills out the census she just checks African-American/Black. When my father fills it out he just checks African-American. I don’t know much about my ancestors but as far as I know the ones who had any impact on my life were just black.
Tiger Woods’ MOTHER is asian for crying out loud.
I don’t have a problem with being just black. Is there something wrong with being just black?
I see no connection between what I wrote and your response. I didn’t say anything about black people creating racism/race. My comment was pointing out the fallacy that mixed race people are treated the same as their least favored racial component. We all know the racial hierarchy is a lot more complex than white and black.
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“You are making it sound as if being black is a choice. In American society it is not, not unless you can pass for white.”
Abagond said this above. I don’t have time to read all the subsequent posts.
I think he is right. There is no choice given in a white supremacist society.
However, choosing to define oneself outside the bounds of white supremacy is also resisting it. Woods somehow does it by redefining the terms, but he still remains in the racial frame. He doesn’t let them define him, but he still does because his terms are theirs.
Accepting “blackness” or “whiteness” without any thinking about it is obeying an oppressive system. Blackness exists because whiteness imposed itself. There would be no need for any …-ness (especially blackness) if there had been no whiteness / white supremacy in the first place.
I believe it (whiteness) has to be fought and defeated by the descendants of those who invented it and who look like them. One way is to deny it its existence (because it doesn’t exist) by redefining the terms. The best redefinition would be to deny races altogether, which most people are not ready for. Somehow they find comfort in the mould. For “Blacks” it is very peculiar because there is comfort and no comfort at the same time. Because they are *the* target of the system. As such they have to fight it from the inside, and thus most tend to internalize “race”. Some know “race” is a trap, but at the same time renouncing it means sending the message to those who define themselves as “normal” because “white” that “racism is over” (which they already think it is). So the perversion of the system forces Afro-descendants (which we are supposed to all be, but I’m of course referring to the descendants of Africans deported to be slaves) to use the racial frame to make their cause advance. It is a trap whichever way, UNLESS a majority of those who are defined as “white” eventually DEFY the system. And that is difficult when it is a system you benefit from in many many ways. There are defiers, but their voice is not heard or broadcast because it is dangerous. Extremely dangerous. In Apartheid South Africa, they were killed. Silenced. In the US they are ignored (by the media, by the academic world) because they ask for too much. Or called traitors. But their time will come. It has to. It cannot go on forever. In the 1930s, a few thinkers thought it would be faster… like Alain Locke. But politics of privilege are more powerful than morale and “truth”. And most people are not courageous and willing to sacrifice for the better-being of others.
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He is twice as Asian as he is black. He is also Buddhist, which he got from his mother.
If he is closer culturally to Siam than Black America, identifying as mixed is a way of recognizing
1. Black is only 1/4 of who he is
2. Culturally he is more Asian than black
3. Most Americans will see him as black.
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Cornlia said:
“I believe it (whiteness) has to be fought and defeated by the descendants of those who invented it and who look like them. One way is to deny it its existence (because it doesn’t exist) by redefining the terms. ”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I wish you extraordinary GOOD LUCK with that!
Yawn… Wake me up when you find a critical mass of white folks in the USA willing to give up their privileges, and their feel good superiority/supremacy.
.
“And most people are not courageous and willing to sacrifice for the better-being of others.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Right! Especially when those “others” possess a darker colored skin,
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Bobby M,
I suspect that Tiger Woods, given his upbringing, culturally speaking, is probably more White than Asian, and more Asian than Black. That probably makes him have more in common socially and culturally with whites (and secondarily with Asians). In fact, I suspect he is closest to those military brat kids with Asian war bride mothers, ie, basically Hapa / Amerasian but leaning more towards Eurasian than Blasian (in identity). Most of the Asian war bride kids with black fathers tend to lean more towards black identity unless they got separated from their fathers, because their fathers will expose them more to the black community (rather than to Asian American or white communities). But Tiger’s father did not do that – it seems that Tiger was raised with more exposure to whites than blacks, and continues to follow that path in adulthood.
Those with Asian War Bride mothers rarely become very entrenched in Asian American communities as their mother’s connection to US society is primaily through the father and not through her own US based family (as she might not have any relatives in the USA).
His black consciousness is probably very low, but not zero, of course. At least he is aware that he is partially of African descent, has always admitted it and never denied it, and is conscious that he is stereotyped that way. But as his identity with it is very minimal, he just brushes it off. Most blacks, of course, cannot understand how he can just do that, but I have seen it often among Hapa / Eurasian Americans who aim to integrate more fully into the white community. They brush off racial identities pushed on to them like water off a duck’s back. It has become their survival skill in a racially aware social world.
His Native American consciousness is probably close to zero.
By the way, his ancestry is a bit more complicated than you suggest. His father is part white and part Chinese, and his mother is part European. I think labelling him as Black is no more meaningful (probably less so) than labelling him as Eurasian. I have seen some Eurasian / Hapa websites list him as a famous Eurasian celebrity (as they have Bruce Lee). I have spent large chunks of time across SE Asia as well as lived in / adjacent to majority black neighborhoods for most of my time growing up in the USA, and I think that he would have little problem passing as a local person across Indonesia, the Philippines and even southern Thailand, esp. if he could speak the local language and acted acculturalized to the local norms. To me, it is obvious he has more Asian ancestry than African.
But which gets to a point – “If he were acculturalized to local norms”. He would stick out like a sore thumb in SE Asia, and would stick out in any black neighborhood in the USA as he seems to be primarily acculturalized as white. I suspect that his parents tried to raise him to be “colour blind” and that is the result we ended up with. Had his parents made sure that he was raised a Black person or Asian, and if his experience had reflected that, I am sure it would show up.
But as Tiger has recent ancestors from at least 4 different continents and maybe over a dozen ethnic groups, it is impossible to identify with all of them or any of them in particular. It is part of the multiracial experience that one cannot identify with all of his ancestral racial and ethnic backgrounds, and even may have to invent words to describe his experience. People will assign labels to him and then castigate him for not accepting those labels. Abagond has assigned Will Demps as “East Asian”, but Tiger Woods as Black, even though Will Demps likely has more African ancestry and more contact with his Black American social and cultural roots than Tiger Woods ever did.
What I disagree most with Abagond’s post above is
and
.
I think the examples he gives about whites making anti-black racist remarks about Tiger and subsequently getting penalized for it as testament that everyone except Tiger Woods knows that he is black – are flawed. I completely disagree. I think they are penalized for making anti-black remarks (notwithstanding Tiger Woods), not because Tiger is black and doesn’t know it.
In the USA, I was constantly assumed to be ethnic and racial backgrounds that I am not, and it changed from minute to minute, day to day, person to person. And what people assumed I was does in no way make them “know” what my racial or ethnic background or identity is and thus render me “clueless” about what I am. It is not my character flaw – it is theirs, if anything.
Now, Tiger Woods may indeed have some character flaws, and some of them might even be traced to some idiosyncracies in his racial and ethnic identity and adjustments he has made throughout his life. But in no way would I ever believe that the racial and ethnic identities he chooses to adopt are in any way a character flaw in and of itself.
I would ask everyone to read Maria P.P. Root’s Bill of Rights for Multiracial people before they start to strip others of their rights.
Finally, I think the problem with Tiger Woods is that he is rich and famous. Everyone wants to claim him – Blacks, Asian Americans, Hapas, Thais, even born again colour blind whites. Do we see the same outcry among those who are just a little bit less famous (eg, Brian Clay or Thurgood Marshall’s sons)?
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@Kiwi,
I think you completely misunderstood my point
He does not have to be black, but that does not mean he has to be exactly white. For example, he could have been of Sri Lankan descent or Micronesian or Indigenous Australian (or only just half of any of those things) and if Kelly Tilghman made that remark, she still would have been penalized.
It is a matter if Kelly Tilghman had labelled him a black person and the relevant persons (ie, those in that audience who could have taken action) had taken that to mean that she had labelled him as a black person. One does not have to be actually black or identify as black for that to happen. It does not mean that they are a white person or necessarily strictly identify as a white person.
It is possible that Tiger woods could have had a sibiling with the exact same set of parents who could pass as Eurasian or Mestizo Mexican. Would it be correct to to label that sibling as black. If not, is it reasonable to label siblings with the exact same set of parents as different races, when neither of them identify with whatever label gets assigned to them?
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@Kiwi,
I think your question (that you chose to answer) was irrelevant (despite how you overwhelmingly believe that it is relevant or the crux of the issue).
That is the crux of the multiracial activist movement. They have made partial accomplishments – it is no longer required to tick a single box on the census forms since the 1990s. I think this movement will only grow and expand, so I think your insistence on “nobody” is not founded. That “nobody” you are referring to may very well be the majority of the population in a couple more generations.
I didn’t. I suppose that means that I am not part of society.
Why is that? Did you ever wonder? Was it because of how many whites portrayed him in the media – and you picked up on that without thinking? Given how much you browse webpages, you never saw him on Asian American or hapa websites?
I must admit that when I first saw him, I could not figure out what his background was – looked ambiguous to me.But I did not automatically assume he was black.
If you are the type which automatically assigns people to a racial or ethnic group without thinking, and still refute or contest it after they tell you about their background and identity, I hope that you might consider how your actions and behaviour might impact other people, and how they might be justified in disregarding your thinking.
If Tiger had exactly the same fraction of ancestry and set of grandparents but was named Tiger Wong instead of Tiger Woods (both of his parents are part Chinese, anyhow), would he still be black? Would that lynching statement have made sense?
Actually, I only have one degree of separation with Tiger Woods. My Aunt worked side by side his mother when my Aunt’s husband was stationed in Thailand during the Vietnam War, and she knew both his parents when they met each other in Thailand. She is still in communication with them. I have spoken directly to his mother Kutilda several times.
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I don’t agree with what Abagond said.
For two reasons,
– not all the little old white ladies will look at him and say black man. Some will. Some won’t.
– By your reasoning, most Sri Lankans, Fijians, PNG natives, Indigenous Australians, etc. will simply be black in America because some people think they look black to them. I do happen to know little old white ladies who used the n-word to describe people from Fiji and Micronesia. Heck, whites used the n-word to describe Filipinos in the Philippine American war. Does that make them black?
I guess you think I am delusional too. The reality (a pragmatic one, not a moral one) that I see and accept is that Tiger Woods never was really black. Yes, he has some African ancestry and he is aware of it and never denied it, but perhaps no more than my great great grandmother (who probably found a way to deny it). I am more inclined to see Mariah Carey as black rather than Tiger Woods, because she seems to identify more with it. That is the pragmatic reality for me, not simply a moral one.
I used to frequent some Eurasian and Hapa websites, and they all used Tiger Woods as an example of a famous Hapa, and none of the persons who commented on those websites had any problem with that. Are they all delusional as well?
The reality (again a pragmatic one, not a moral one) was that in the USA, I was mistaken for Latino about 30-40% of the time, perhaps more than I was mistaken for East Asian background. Not only whites and blacks and Asians would do that. I had people from Ecuador, Venezuela, and Colombia walk up to me thinking that I was their fellow countrymen. Does that make me Latino because the “reality” of the social situation dictated that, and if I did not accept it, it was at my own peril?
And if you think that my concept of PRAGMATIC REALITY is up in the clouds (ie, still delusional) then that is one of the main tenets of the multiracial activist movement in the USA – to turn that mistaken “pragmatic reality” on its head. And the trend is in that direction.
I think Tiger Woods perhaps does have some character flaws. His philandering and obvious beeline attraction for blonde white women might be traced to some insecurities about his racial identity. It doesn’t look too much different than Elliot Rodger to me. But his decision to coin a name to describe his racial and ethnic identity is something I find admirable, esp. in the face of opposition of people who still insist “Everyone “knows” that he is black except for him.” I never accept what people label me as. That is my reality, and a very pragmatic one I had to adapt to survive. You and Abagond don’t know everything about how things work in America.
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*ancestry is…
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@ Kiwi
I’m going to delete that comment in a while because of the bad and undesirable imagery, so please do not continue my grizzly example. But I wanted to quickly make that point to you.
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@ Abagond
Please delete this comment:
tomorrow.
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King
Not really. There are plenty of Black parents who could have also imparted the teachings of Buddha to him.
—————————————————————————————
True, but how many of those black parents would ACT like a Buddhist?
Thats the difference.
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@ Kiwi
Sidepoint on Obama:
Actually, Obama has flipped between referring to himself as Black or as Mixed when it has suited him to tailor and pander to an audience.
I posted a video (since deleted) in the “Obama is a Different Person” thread ages ago (two years ago maybe), where Obama was campaigning and addressing a mostly white audience. For the first time (that I had seen) he made a point of referring to himself as “mixed” and to his past self as a “mixed kid”. Aww, isn’t that nice!
Obama wants to have his cake and eat it too: Allow black identification to stick but talk of himself as “mixed” when it’s vote getting time. By contrast, Woods never misled anyone with how he identifies racially.
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@Legion,
Yep, I think you got it.
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@Legion
Yep, this is also true.
Again true. And I admire Tiger Woods, at least for this aspect. Despite all the social and political pressure he faced to select or even accept a racial label placed on him by some people, he has remained consistent and genuine in his racial description. Given all the historical pressure put on multiracial people to assume monoracial identities, Woods’s take on it is actually rather admirable. I might even use his story to help teach my triracial or quadriracial nieces and nephews how to stand up to all that pressure.
In comparison, Obama has been more of a racial chameleon for political purposes.
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I read Mississippi had the highest growth rate (on the order of 70%) in its multiracial population (2000-2010). Yet it is not due to any high rate of interracial marriage there. I read the highest rates of intermarriage are in the Seattle area.
It is due to the fact that many multiracial Mississippians felt a new sort of freedom to cast off their monoracial labels and choose something that they feel more comfortable to identify with. Mississippi has had many generations of mixed white, black, Chinese, Choctaw, etc. people. But they had always been forced to assume a monoracial identity.
Not so much any more.
And somehow, I think Tiger Woods may have even played a role in that.
So for me, his political significance is not about a black person breaking into what had historically always been a white sport, and getting rich and famous off of that. It is more about a multiracial person choosing a name to describe himself and finding a racial identity that he can feel true about and help him feel comfortable in his skin. He can serve as a liberating example to all those millions of Americans feeling trapped about that.
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@ Kiwi
Firstly, I guess we are going to be “opposite” sides here, which is fine. I just want to acknowledge that there won’t be any persuading going on here, merely exchange of viewpoints. Having said that:
You took it for granted that Tiger Woods is black or “looks” black. That’s fine. But Jefe and I thought that Tiger Woods totally had an Indonesian “look” going on and took that for granted. I still see him this way.
———————————————-
The dysfunction of the society CAN NOT be permitted to become the standard for truth. A lot of stupid Americans think Egypt is in the Middle East and not Africa. Even if a poll result came back that 60% of respondents said that Egypt was closer to Iraq than Morocco, it would be an indicator of the culture. The desire of many Americans to want to place Woods in a “Black” box is an indication of the culture.
^ This is an imperfect example. I do not mean that you are stupid for considering Woods black. But what you do appear to be doing is allowing the dysfunction of the society assert definitional control of how people should identify.
I could never have taken Tiger Woods seriously if he had declared himself Black. When he made the Cablinasian statement, it seemed the most sincere and sensible thing in the world. Also, Woods’ statement was a very tacit revelation of the fallacy of the entire “race” concept. As I recall, Oprah was not astute enough to acknowledge and speak to this useful and helpful interpretation of Woods’ statement.
———————————————————-
@ Kiwi and Jefe
Re: Societal Dysfunction
It was quite a while back but do you guys remember an assault on a swarthy man who was obviously Arab and was attacked (by cops or street thugs, I don’t remember which) for being an enemy (of America) because he was obviously Arab and obviously Muslim?
Well, it turned out the guy was as Greek as the statue of David. Should this Greek man start researching the possibility of his “Arab roots” because a gang of moron Americans assaulted him out of the false perception that he was Arab????
Again, imbecile/racist/limited worldview cops who would view Woods as a Black man has got nothing to do with anything except their own dysfunction and stupidity. Their low standard can not become the standard.
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for the nut cases out there. I would not sanction the attack on the man had he in fact been Arab.
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@Legion,
Thank you for putting another angle on this. It seems your Greek American example made more sense to Kiwi, but in any case I think slowly, monoracially identified people will learn what is at stake.
I never had to look for an external example on this. In the same week I could have been mistaken for Italian, Filipino, Colombian, Russian, Chinese, Arab, Mexican, Native American, Portuguese, Central Asian (Kazakh or Uyghur), Japanese, etc.or any combination dreamed up, Sometimes people knew me for months or years and then suddenly ask me to please clarify for them what I am because it bugged them.
And I have had people get downright mean and nasty to me because I did not assume a racial or ethnic category that they decided to place me in.
In any case, it did cause discrimination to occur. It did affect my access to housing, employment, education, how I was treated by the police, etc. and it was not consistent.
If I had to rely on what people classified me as, I would have ended up as a total nut case. I think tAndrew Cunanan became a nut case in his strategy to deal with it. (see below).
So I understand the need completely to formulate a vocabulary to describe yourself and to forgive people (or even ignore) for applying a racial label and exercising discriminatory behaviour. reflecting that. That is not being delusional. That is a survival technique to navigate yourself in a fiercely racist society.
And people are often forced to do this sometime around age 15-18. Sometimes it happens later. Multiracial awareness started growing in the late 80s and came to the forefront in the 1990s. Tiger Woods came out just at the right time to be a poster boy for this. Had he been 15-20 years older, he would have had very different choices.
I can tell Kiwi is still very young. Asian American, as a political label, was not even formulated until the 1970s (as was Hispanic and non-Hispanic white). It is a pure political construct. It did not even appear on the Census until 1980. Roll time back another 30-35 years, and no one would have dreamed that Japanese and Chinese Americans would have been lumped into the same ethnic and racial group. And I expect a new vocabulary to describe America’s racial situation (in social and political terms) will emerge to replace the prior ones.
I leave this with a final example, but a more sinister one. If you recall, fashion designer Gianni Versace was killed in 1997 by his then lover Andrew Cunanan. Cunanan had a Filipino American father and an Italian American mother. Growing up, he liked to assume different identities and change his appearance and his personal story to match them. Maybe that was how he learned to deal with his racial and ethnic ambiguities.
In his late teens, his father left the family to evade criminal charges and his mom threw him out for being gay. He learned to survive by assuming different personas to wealthy older gay men. This later turned into a killing spree.
After he killed Versace, he was a man on the loose. This is where his assumption of different personas helped him evade being caught. He would not only be Italian, or a wide variety of European ethnicities, he would also be Filipino or other Asian ethnicities, he would be Latino, he would be Arab, Nobody knew what he looked liked, and got his ethnic and racial labels wrong – the man with a thousand faces who looked like no one. When one of his FBI wanted posters labelled him as white, he just became Asian or Latino. It is just like that Twilight Zone episode where the guy could change his face at will.
What do people say he had? A psychological disorder? Certainly something more serious than a character flaw.
Of course he finally killed himself and that ended it. But I would hate for him to be the role model for the multiracial American. Tiger Woods came up with a vocabulary to use and stuck with it.
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@ Kiwi
I am unambiguously East Asian […] If, for example, either of us tried to identify as white, we would be laughed off. Clear color lines exist.
Absolutely. No matter what the details of our particular backgrounds may be, we know what we look like in the mirror. And we know what the practical perception is by external others who look at us day to day in society.
I admit that multiracial identities are more complicated and harder to understand as they upset the norm of our society placing people in neat and tidy boxes. (my added emphasis)
Nail hit on the head Kiwi, nail hit squarely on the head!
—————————–
@ Jefe
Thank you for putting another angle on this.
My pleasure. It came back to me and certainly seemed apropos.
Re: Cunanan.
^ Whoa! Forgot all about him, but I remember it with you bringing it up. Yeah, him and Elliott Rodger, dark, dark stuff. Woods provides a very honest and even practical example of racial identification. How awkward he would have been to state that he was Black and nothing else.
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Cunanan hit much more closer to home to me than Elliot Rodger.
To cope with adolescent anguish, I also imagined having different personas to escape what I was facing personally, could be anything like
– after my Arkansas mother married my Native American father, her family disowned her. Later my father died and I tried to get registered with his tribe but they rejected it.
– my parents fled Afghanistan in the Soviet War and became Christians in the USA to try to fit more in with American life. They wouldn’t tell me anything about our original family background
– I was a Vietnamese born Amerasian. When I was 12, I came to the USA and found my father but he didn’t wan’t anything to do with me
– A couple from Virginia brought me to the USA from Honduras when I was 10 years old and when I was in High School they divorced.
-when People’s Liberation Army invaded Xinjiang after 1949, my non-Han parents’ families fled and eventually made it to Hong Kong. That is where my parents met. After the 1967 riots in Hong Kong, they left and went to the USA after the USA changed its immigration laws.
Anything but the truth.
I could make up an elaborate story to gain the trust and confidence of someone with a predicament that I didn’t identify with personally but sound convincing to someone else. It would have been too difficult to tell the truth – too personal. Cunanan was gifted verbally and could use this to his advantage. Maybe my stuttering affliction was a blessing in surprise. So I found other ways of coping.
The Cunanan story came out around the same time as the Cablinasian one. But by far think the latter was a much more positive take. People may call them psychotic or delusional, but I see it as different ways of coping with what life throws at you. And Tiger Woods is not out there killing people.
In the 21st century, yes. But then I sit and think about those mixed black/white/Chinese/Choctaw people 100 years ago in Mississippi. Then, everyone was colored or white, regardless of their actual ancestry.
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You sound like a bitter person with self hatred or just a pure ignorant racist. You know nothing about race. Tiger may have dark skinned, but he looks just like a lot of Southeast Asians. Get over yourself and get a life. Thank God our new generation lets people accept who they truly are. Sad ancient Jim Crow people. The Natives were hete first. Thats also what Tiger is. An Indian. Again get over yourself and go back to Europe. Study DNA will ya. God bless you and forgive me if I’m harsh..just need to leave people a lone here…especially mixed raced people who are always attacked and judged.
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@Lola h.
Maybe you should shut up. Everyone has mixtures, but having mixtures have little to do with what you are perceived as.
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Wow so ignorant
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“One of the most fascinating things about golf is how it reflects the cycle of life. No matter what you shoot – the next day you have to go back to the first tee and begin all over again and make yourself into something.” -Peter Jacobsen
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I’d rather watch paint dry than watch golf.
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