I have two sons, one is eight and the other is ten. One is honest and the other lies. I do not know what to do with him. He does not just shade the truth or leave out important facts; he does not just tell lies to get out of trouble – he tells straight out lies even when he does not have to.
For example, a few weeks ago my wife made them a drink out of carrots. It did not taste good and they had a hard time drinking it. Well, the honest one had a hard time. The other one walked outside, poured it on the garden and then came back in and said he was done drinking it. But he came back too quickly and got caught in the lie.
He can learn and figure out things quickly and has a good memory. This makes him think he is better than others. It also makes it easy for him to fool others. Even his parents, it seems. But not all the time.
My wife told me to talk to him and punish him. I did not know what to do. I gave him a stern talk and grounded him for two weeks – no television, no playing with friends, no computer or computer games, and so on.
But I feel it was not enough. I told him that if the punishment did not work – if his lying continued – I would think of something worse.
When I was talking to him I thought back to what my father would have done. But my sister and brothers and I would never dream of telling such naked lies. We told little lies, we lied at the edges, if you know what I mean, but nothing like this. So since my father never had to face such a thing, I did not know what to do.
I should ask my mother. She might know what he would have done. Or what I should do. And my sister too – she has done far more reading and thinking on child rearing than I have.
My wife does not know what to do anymore than I do. She just shakes her head in despair.
Is it too late to do anything? Is this something built into him, into his character? Can it be changed? If so, how?
How is lying cured?
In my own case when I was about his age I became persuaded that when I told a lie it was written all over my face. I was not smooth enough or cool-headed enough to tell a good lie. It would only get me into deeper trouble and therefore I avoided it. I knew it was wrong, but I did not think it was so wrong that it could not be used to get out of a tight place now and then. But I did not use it even then because, like singing, it was not something I was good at.
I think people differ on their level of empathy. Pathological liars do not feel remorse about deceiving others, even their friends and family members. Punishment may not work as “social consequences” may not be enough to deter them.
He will have to remember all his lies and construct a whole new reality to be consistent with them. Is his memory that fantastic? But liars may also simply change the facts to suit their situation.
Is it still going on now?
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Abagond
I know this is late but the imagery of a child running outside to fling
vegetable juice at Mother Nature, then claim it’s delicious is funny.
Perhaps children lie to appease mom and dad, no? Tell them what they want to hear and everyone’s happy.
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Children who don’t feel connected to their parents, i.e. attachment issues, will lie unconscionably. When they don’t feel accountable in a spiritual sense, meaning, parents always interpret actions in a negative light, they feel no hope nor reason to feel remorse and will continue testing that faith.
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I retroactively deleted everything on this thread about dyslexia – as not just off topic but, on this thread, as what amounts to a personal attack by Pay It Forward against Bulanik.
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Thank you, Abagond.
Please also note:
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Staying with “lying” the topic of this subject. It seems to me that that your two sons at that age Abagond would be taking their cues from their parents conscious or unconscious behaviour. Which is what children do. They can act as physical expression at what their parents are refusing to mentally acknowledge and resolve within themsleves.
Just a thought…But I will assume this has now been resolved in any case…
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How is lying cured?
General purpose solution:
I can’t see how anyone would lie in a personal journal that they keep. Journals are for the expression of what is really going on inside you. Lying in one’s own journal would be a sort of self mutilation. So, the keeping of a journal would sort of be a way to cultivate self honesty which would (perhaps) spill out into the other areas of one’s life.
^ Admittedly, that solution is more for older persons. Teens and up, I suppose.
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I think this is a stage kids go through, sometimes it’s for attention. I don’t know why your young son is acting out like this but it needs to be dealt with and it needs to be nipped in the bud. Maybe some professional counseling is needed.
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Wow. The story about the two sons says far more about the parents than the kids.
I cannot imagine an environment in which my two sons were expected to drink something that didn’t appeal to them. But it seems these two kids were expected to consume carrot juice whether they wanted to or not.
Why? Because it’s “good” for them?
The story leads to the impression that the parents were unable and unwilling to accept the feelings and concerns of the two kids. It’s as though the parents believe it’s in their power to dictate the various tastes their kids develop.
Punishment? Grounding. Taking away television, friends, games? A kid is punished for not liking carrot juice? Wow. That sounds bizarre. Is there an adult version of this?
The parents need some counseling. Not the kids. They’re pawns facing abuse from parents. However, one is learning faster than the other how to avoid the nonsense that’s often imposed on the inexperienced.
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sb32199
Are we reading the same story? I don’t see where the boy was punished for not liking the carrot juice, but was punished for lying.
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Aaaw!
Is this still happening?
I remember when I was little (around 5) I told a dirty joke and my (frenemy) friends told my mum and the neighbours. I didn’t know lying existed so I had to apologise to the neighbours with my mum dragging me along. I was peeing my pants. I remember hiding under the bed so humiliated and scared. I didn’t even know the meaning of what I’d said I was just parroting something I’d heard somewhere. A little while later I learned about lying, thank goodness. (Well, it was beneficial when I was a kid.)
It would probably be best to just stress the morality of the issue. If a kid is taught about character and has the matter of honor and “doing the right thing” drummed into his or her head, eventually they’ll walk in it if you’ll show disappointment in the lying, but reward “the right thing” with showering praise.
The last of my lies came when I got so upset with a bully I told a lie on the person to get them into trouble. But on this one occasion the bully hadn’t actually done anything and she was really hurt about being told off for nothing at all. I felt horrible so I confessed to my mum and she was so disappointed she gave me the silent treatment for the entire evening. She had asked over and over again if I was “absolutely” telling the truth, because if not, it would be horrible for her to go and tell the girl off when she hadn’t done anything, and I looked her in the eyes and said yes. Well, as I said I felt terrible and ended up having to apologise to both my mum and the bully girl. That was the end of my lying phase.
The disappointment in the grown ups was too much for me to take.
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Yep. They usually do it for their own well-being. They think it doesn’t matter for the children’s well-being.
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^ As a little girl, I was told by a relative Santa was an old, white, fat man with a beard and he climbed down chimneys bearing presents. One Christmas, one of my uncles dressed up as Santa. All the kids were excited except for me. I took one look and, “How come Santa is brown and skinny? That’s not Santa Claus! He looks like uncle Ray!” My relatives roared with laughter, and my mom pulled me aside and chuckled, “How do you know Santa isn’t Santa?” I replied, “Because Santa is really fat. If he goes down our chimney he’ll get stuck. And this Santa walked from that door and he’s brown. Santa is white.” My mom smiled and hugged me.
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Lying, what a skill huh. I don’t know if there is a cure for it. We try to reward honesty, so it will decrease the need for lying. With our boys one is more mischievous and will cover his tracks skillfully with creative storytelling. (:lol:) In the long run, lying is too much work. The truth will always set one free!
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@kiwi
Lol
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Reads sb’s comment.
*forehead slap*
*closes page*
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*forehead slap that went into a face palm, actually*
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Lying is such hard work, trying to keep details straight. I think it’s true that honesty is the best policy.
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I like this quote by Mark Twain, “If you tell the truth you won’t have to remember anything.”
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“I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.” Friedrich Nietzsche.
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@ Kiwi:
Funny you should mention that. I remember asking my mom would she allow Santa (a stranger) to come into the house in the middle of the night. In her heavy Filipina accent, she laughed, “If a white guy come here tonight and I don’t know him, he will know my frying pan.” Hahahaha! God, I love my mom! I miss her deeply.
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Business fraud in Spain:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/14/us-spain-gowex-ceo-specialreport-idUSKBN0GE0R420140814
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@ Bulanik
You are PUFFING this up so that you can have something to feel morally indignant about. I’d rather talk about India, as this is the thread for it.
^Is it only me, I wonder, who can see that this is actually a description of you?
😀 Wow, you are a trip, as the saying goes. I guess it really sucks for you that I’m not acting in a predictable manner, that is to say: angry and throwing thunderbolts! Hahaha! My goodness, don’t I say above that I have my own flaws and do I not peaceably state that I should own my flaws and leave others to their own? The picture you’re still at work trying to weave just does not match my comments, here in this thread or generally on the blog.
Your commentary was turned “off” for me long ago (last year), something you didn’t clock…
Uh.. yeah, of course. That’s why you read my India comment from last month. That’s why you read my comments to Kartoffel who was flirting foolishly with hopes for a hyperinflationary collapse as some sort of lunatic “evening out” of socio-economic injustices in America, also from this year. And it’s why you responded to a comment I left in the American Academic Prose thread, also this year. I think you realized it was I who had begun ignoring your voice. Who could put value in anything you say after Pif’s discovery? God bless her for taking up what she knew would be a thankless and ignored effort.
Go back to talking about India and leave me out of it, thanks.
(It’s already known how intransigent you are, you will of course make another dramatic and untruthful diatribe. Oh well, ho-hum…)
Oh yeah, those invented Polish friends? My God, how do you stand your
reflection?
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damn, I missed the italics:
“You are Puffing…” is Bulanik, then I respond.
“Your commentary was turned off” is Bulanik then I respond.
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It probably won’t matter, as Abagond may delete this and that but in case he leaves everything as is, and I think he should (unless individuals request deletions, of course) my comment above (the long one) is from the India thread.
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Pay it Forward, dont leave…I dont agree with Abagonds statement about you…I mean , of course you can do what you feel best, but, there are lots of differant points of view on here , even if they arnt stated…sometimes people just dont want to bother calling out each thing they know is wrong…its a pain to do it everytime
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i bet if i made more money or something i could stop lying!
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Wow Abagond! Wow! So long.
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@ Wordy
I put a comment of yours in moderation.
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@ Bulanik @ Pay It Forward
Your comments will be automatically moderated till further notice, probably for the next five hours or so, till I have time to sort this out. You know where to reach me on email.
@ Wordy @ Legion
Your past comments will remain in moderation till I sort this thing out.
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@ Bulanik @ Pay It Forward @ Wordy @ Legion
1. Calling someone a plagiarist or insinuating it is a serious, personal attack. I will delete all such comments.
2. Giving evidence of plagiarism is NOT a personal attack.
3. If you suspect a comment is plagiarized, please tell me under the Comment Policy thread. All discussions of plagiarism will take place there so that they are all in one place and leave a trail anyone can find.
4. If I think someone has been plagiarizing, he or she will be banned.
5. Last year I deleted Bulanik’s comments and let her off with a warning about plagiarism. That means if any of her present comments are plagiarized, she will be banned. See above.
6. All comments in moderation except for Legion’s will be deleted.
7. Bulanik’s and Pay It Forward’s comments are no longer automatically moderated.
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@ Legion
Look, doll….I know you are sore that I was not-responsive to your flirtations.
(toe curling, so it was…)
You also asked Abagond to delete of that. I understand, my dove.
But because I was turned off by that “commentary” doesn’t mean I wouldn’t talk to you in a civil way about other stuff.
You see, Legion, we are quite different people: I can disagree with someone, not fancy them, and still see their good points and have respect for them.
As for my Polish friends, excuse me, but are you so interested in my personal life? Your personal life, and relationships is of absolutely no interest to me.
Thank you for giving me permission to talk about India.
That’s very white of you.
@ Abagond, you, I trust.
Therefore: I willl forward photos and details of my supposedly invented Polish friends by email to you.
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@ Abagond,
I sent you those details and the photos to your email.
Do confirm that you have received them.
Thanks.
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@ Abagond
Further:
Imo, a few determined commenters have indulged themselves in a SMEAR CAMPAIGN. Has it become a sport on this blog? Of course. I told you to nip it in the bud, but…
What was the point of it? That my voice should be ignored.
Thanks a bundle, Legion. Your insight on that is right on the money.
And not just ignored, but bashed. Certainly not by all, no way, but one after the other just went right ahead and carried right where another had left off.
You know who you are.
Why? The reason is simple: I don’t kow-tow and I don’t kiss ass.
It’s so simple, it’s grotesque.
I don’t trust governments. I question and interrogate things. I say
“I don’t know”,
“sorry” and .
“thank you” too much.
I do not subscribe to Islamophobia, jingoism, Afrocentricism, Eurocentrism, Orientalism, blahblahblah, etc., etc.
Some people don’t like that, and want to shut me down for it.
But, I am still here. (Sorry about that, darlings!)
Abagond, if you feel it’s worth it, I am quite prepared to forward you more personal details that show my past and present, my associates (to a limit), work, education, circles, and so on and on. Basically back up all the supposed things I “lie” about, “steal”, “forge”, “make up” and so on.
(Obviously, I don’t have any right to respect, or even a private life.
Sure … because, my life — everything and everyone and anything and anyone in that life — is a lie!
Cower to the manipulators and bullies. Fear them. Fear them hard.
Yeah, right: I can’t know anything, I can’t have done anything, I can’t have known or talked to anyone, not ever.)
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Abagond writes: “4. If I think someone has been plagiarizing, he or she will be banned.
5. Last year I deleted Bulanik’s comments and let her off with a warning about plagiarism. That means if any of her present comments are plagiarized, she will be banned. See above.”
_ _ _
Bet.
Now, to keep this thing above board, urgent deletions and/or re-writing are off limits for the time being to said person’s published comments.
All I ask is before allowing for deletions of said posts starting today and going back to the date of the last mass deletion, that I be given up until midnight of September 15, 2014 to find a few examples of obvious & intentional plagiarism in said commenter’s posts.
I will post my findings in the thread under the comment policy.
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@ Pay It Forward
Okay: Until September 18th (a week from today) I will not delete or change any comments made BEFORE September 11th. I might delete newer comments simply as a regular part of moderation.
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@ Abagond, may I post ALL of Pay it Forward’s cut and paste jobs on Comment Policy, though?
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Abagond, why have you moderated my pointing of PIF’s suspected plagiarisms?
BE FAIR. If she is gonna give it, she’s gotta learn to take it.
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Also, I have my suspicions about what she says she is.
I can prove what has been called imaginery and invented. Photos, CVs, emails, letters.
Can she?
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@ Bulanik
1. I just deleted a comment of yours for name calling.
2. If you suspect ANY commenter of plagiarism, you can report your findings to the Comment Policy thread above. The old comments of EVERYONE is locked in place for a week.
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@ Bulanik
It is next to impossible to prove or disprove someone’s identity on the Internet. It amounts to an ad hominem,
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@ Abagond
Exactly. But not when it’s directed at me.
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Did you see my supposedly imaginary Polish friends, as “cited” by Legion?
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@ Bulanik
I got the email. I have not looked at it yet.
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And thank you for acknowledging the past examples of that person’s intentional plagiarism, the warning issued because of it, and the true reason for the mass deletion of comments under two of said person’s usernames.
It is obvious that some of us are easily manipulated by constant and repeated denials, and the faked appearance of righteous indignation, and this remains the case even when we have shown not just evidence but proof of the duplicitous behavior of someone we have to be charismatic or “charming”.
[Hint-hint: Charles Mansion is an obvious example of a duplicitous and charismatic person, and we do know that he had number of followers who found themselves charmed into doing his bidding, and into protecting/defending him. And Adolf Hitler is an excellent example of a leader who is said to have been so charismatic a speaker that he was able to negatively influenced a multitude of Germans listeners through his speeches alone.]
A reality check seems to be much needed wherever honesty and logic are shrugged off in favor of dishonesty and superficial charm combined with manipulative pity-seeking and ingratiation.
The enablers of this behavior know who they are.
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So, what was that, then?
When you told someone off for saying the same thing before.
You said:
“I deleted your comments about Bulanik’s Polish friends. You are dragging in her private life to smear her. Not cool. I know you think they are imaginary, but you have no way to prove it, at least not on an English-only forum like this one. You will just have to let it go.”
ARE YOU SAYING I MUST PROVE ANY AND EVERYTHING, and others don’t have to?
C’mon, man!
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It’s not Charles Mansion, PIF. Mansion is a big house.
It is Charles Manson.
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A reality check seems to be much needed wherever honesty and logic are shrugged off in favor of dishonesty and superficial charm combined with manipulative pity-seeking and ingratiation.
Ingratiation. “out of courtesy Abagond…” You “a doll”.
Or crying thus “I know I am not popular”, “I am a lone wolf”.
Poor baby. Oh, pity on her. Others come to your rescue…
Abagond says: “don’t worry, it will pass…”
What kind of APPEALS are YOU always making, Pay it Forward?
You are some of LIAR and con-artist.
You make personal attacks and follow me around, obsessively.
So you, PIF, are ruled by Pure Reason?
But you never say WHY? I think as commenters read you and think, rather than being cowed (hoping you won’t turn on them…) they realize that something is not right WITH YOU. WITH YOU>
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These are PIF’s word: “A reality check seems to be much needed wherever honesty and logic are shrugged off in favor of dishonesty and superficial charm combined with manipulative pity-seeking and ingratiation.”
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@ Abagond
You got the emails. The address and telephone numbers are up to date.
Should you wish to ring the individuals, please add 00353, then knock of the zero at the beginning of the number that follows.
If you want to check out the historians, chemist, writers, song-writers and others I make passing reference to in comments, then, sure, can do.
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But the Eliot Rodger shooting spree was a hoax.
Hmmm. You are so smart, PIF… you really have special powers.
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@ Bulanik
PIF did not plagiarise her material. She simply knows how to write well.
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@ Abagond, there was one particular comment from Fiamma or Fiamma blu or nicotine and whatever, about pigs suckling on humans….can you find it?
It was very similar, both in content and tone, to early anthropolgical writings.
But I’d also need help in finding that so that I can show you her plagiarism.
Any pointers?
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Hey, Wordy!
Aren’t you the one who tells us dark folks that they only talk about racism and not about books and art and stuff, which makes you feel like the odd one out?
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@ wordy
Prove that she did not plagiarize her material. Prove that she writes well.
If you can’t stand by what you claim, then you are making false claims.
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@ Wordy
And isn’t your method to play angry and indignant if people don’t kow-tow to your peer-reviwed Authority, and BLUDGEONING or worse, SHAMING them into silence….and then denying you do. Good gracious.
You must think that there are no artists or people with Bachelors, Masters, or so on, on this blog…
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@ Bulanik
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Wow, what spectacle.
This is about politics. About not supporting 100% US policy.
You, in particular, Wordy, really underestimate the intelligence of some of the other commenters. We don’t need your educated “guidance”… or condescension.
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@ Abagond, thank you. There are 100s of others I have read over the years.
PIF keeps changing her name — what to do? Advice?
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@ Bulanik
She does not have to prove anything of the sort. The burden of proof is on the one making a claim of plagiarism.
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IComment in mod.
Correction: I mean consistent in the application of the comment policy.
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Cure for children with lying tongues is Play the Liar-Liar and Reward the another son for drinking his carrot juice. I would told the lying son-That was fruit juice that he threw out or tell him the truth about his act.Once his real face show disappointment and tell the truth. You get the another son some icecream or toy. Make the carrot juice with lying son and talk to him about health. Watch him drink all the carrot juice. Don’t give him no reward but tell him a truthful/fearful story about lying.
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Fair enough, abagond.
My commentary is obviously up for scouring as well. Go to it. You can ban me anyway, regardless. I have a pont to make and I am tired of being cast as being a liar in this situation.
One thing you will not find in my comments is any intentional copy and paste plagiarism wherein it is as personal opinion or knowlegde/research by phrases such as “afaik” or ‘someone told me’ or ‘I read it in a book when I was a teen’ or ‘my German friends this’ or ‘Australian friends that,’ and then follow it up with the copy & paste job or a weakly re-worded text.
As I feel that there has been a vendetta against me for not being liked, and for daring to butt-heads with a commenter who is, I fully expect that someone even other than the commenters herself, will scour my relatively few amount of comments for anything that might approximate intentional or obvious plagiarism, and that I will finally be banned, as It is obviously *I* who am not the charmer or ‘kiss up’ here.
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BR, thank you for asking me to continue posting. I am unwelcome here and I have long known that I am. Even before your first arrival here, some years ago I was a commenter though I posted rather infrequently and under another username. I was not welcome (for a particular reason) then, but continued to comment anyway, and to generally mind my business rather than to chit chat or to become a forum ‘personality’. I posted my comments and opinions and pretty much went about my business.
And because of this, I feel that I owe you an apology, as a couple or more years back, I said nothing and watched as you got ganged up on by a commenter and at least four of her enablers, and then watched as you were accused of internet stalking and all manner of other chicanery simply for casually inquiring of the nationality/ethnic heritage of the person you had been debating an issue with. The truth is the personal information you inquired of had already been made public by the debater in question. You were also lambasted for referring to an adult woman as a “girl” even when she herself had a past username that featured the word “girl” as part of it (comments under said username have silently been deleted within the last few months).
The ‘achilles’ heel’ of this person seems to be Indians & India; she tried painting me as a racist against Indians because I dare to view them as continuing to be ethnically Indian regardless of their place of birth (two others also have been lit into by this person during other discussions on Indians or India). I probably should have simply ignored it and simply stop posting under that thread but I do have a bad tendency of defending myself against allegations, just as said person is doing and quite vigorously, I might add.
She has long used me as being a sore loser of a debate as a smoke screen for why I chose to divulge her, at the time, 2 years worth of plagiaristic comments. And others bought into that story because they wanted to believe in her, as you know even after it was uncovered I was seen as a villian for uncovering it and she continued on as a much *valued* commenter. *SMH*.
BR, this isn’t simply about that one commenter and her commenter cronies. I really should have pushed on years ago.
I will find her plagiarism though (and she might even find examples of it amongst my posts as well), and even then she might still continue on as a ‘much valued commenter’ rather than being banned. To tell you the truth, I would not be surprised….
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@ Abagond, there was one particular comment from Fiamma or Fiamma blu or nicotine and whatever, about pigs suckling on humans….can you find it?
It was very similar, both in content and tone, to early anthropolgical writings.
But I’d also need help in finding that so that I can show you her plagiarism.
Any pointers?
_ _ _
Bulanik, that info came from a college textbook from years ago. I actually tried looking it up to see if I could find it but could not. Stating info is not plagiarism; it is plagiarism when you do not sufficiently put info in your own words, or when you copy wording and written research opinions etc in their entirety and claim them as your own, which you have done many times.
Certain basic phrasings are obviously difficult to rework, and can appear to be plagiarized even when they are not.
I thought you had gone to university?
Oh, and about Eliot Rodger? That was simply my opinion based on actual research I did into the case.
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@ PIF…striving for the high moral ground and appealing for “help”?
But you are fresh and full of beans when the shoe is on the other foot, right?
You are a liar, Pay it Forward, Fiamma, fiamma blu.
You said you never made fun of my disability, but you did.
And then “went to town” in the Comment Policy. Here is a taste of Pay it Forward’s integrity, should anyone be in doubt that she fights cleanly, only for truth, and is, herself, a bastion of moral probity:
I have learned from a past mistake that when dealing with a charming and manipulative pathological liar, it is best not to deleted any comment of mine that directly concerns said liar, or comments made by said liar.
And, too, I have learned my lesson in attempting to take the high road with people who fight dirty (which includes known liars), as they will definitely try to make that work to their advantage as well.
(my emphasis)
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/#comment-209912
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@ PIF
Really?
How about this: in the australian-aboriginals-according-to-national-geographic thread: Pay it Forward, as Fiamma this time says — this:
At first glance this reads like: Broad Blogs, from 2010:
“…Men and women both resist the claim until they’re reminded of tribal societies. We’ve all seen pictures from National Geographic. And we all know that among tribal people women’s breasts are no big deal.”
Above it, is a photo of the Himba!! Continuing in comments, it says:
“… And the breast fetish does not exist in them all. … Being flattered by sexual activity will make it no more sexual than it ever … Female breasts are viewed as sexual or functional depending on the …. If that were the case, it would be found in all cultures, but it’s not. …… They’re there to feeding babies, that’s all.”
No link or book reference given in Fiamma’s original post. Very bad.
She doesn’t practice what she preaches! And this just one little comment.
Yet, I share what a historian tells me, and PIF will say the “historian” has to be Wikipedia. That is Open Thread.
I discuss something, anything, and it is suspect if there is not link.
Thus: I can’t know anything, recall anything, read a book…only YOU can, because if I do any or ALL of that, I am a liar, a plagiarist and so on.
You are fair and have your head screwed on.
Which is why Pay it Forward/ Fiamma says this:
Sniff, sniff. Snivel, snivel.
You poor thing!
You follow me around being making vicious accusations (I can provide at least 5 examples smearing me simply) and the “vendetta” is against poor YOU because you are can not show restraint or decency?
You are a sadist, a coward and bully.
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ABAGOND
As of right now I am truly done and finished here. I already proved plagiarism on Bulanik’s part more than a year ago and yet she is still here, and continued to snipe and axe grind even after I tried to lay low. It was your accusation that I was making a personal attack against this deceiver by posting info on dyslexia and PATHOLOGICAL LYING, SOCIOPATHY, and PLAGIARISM that caused me to defend myself to this thread the other day. I made no mention of this liar or any other personality in that comment on dyslexia.
And my intention actually was to return to posting while ignoring that treacherous snake in the high grass! Actually the grass has long been mowed; that she simply and truly is a snake has simply been ignored. How does a person who has stated over and over ad nauseam that she is dyslexic can amass so much info and on so many topics while having issues with reading. Exactly how many scholarly friends and family members of various nationalities does she have who are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of time in sitting down and spilling their wealth of knowledge to her?
And yes, Bulanik it is not a brag and I have said it before that I have read so many book and on so many topics, starting from when I was a preteen, its almost embarrasing; even my family growing up called me a know it all and consult me know on a variety of topics. There are some of like that, and with out having to resort to fakery. Even I don’t know why it worked out the way it has; an extreme hunger for knowledge, and issues with concentration, I guess. Concentration issues are why I rarely post lengthy, informative comments, and since I do have a life and have already proven myself academically in real life, I don’t have time to plagiarize other folk’s work to make myself look smart for strangers on the internet.
Abagond, my work in uncovering that charlatan has already been done. You can keep her. I am out of here.
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@ PIF
Are you calling for the troops to come and rescue?
You can give it but you can not take it.
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I have been far too lady-like with you, for far too long.
Too private and protective of my contacts and experience.
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@ PIF
When I said to you do. not. underestimate. me.
I did not mean that I could fight, or take you down. Or kick your ass.
No.
I meant that I would continue and had enough in the tank, to keep asking questions, learn and contribute. You interpret things in a very narrow and rather grotesque way.
You have wanted to make me look “brainless” because I have a reading and writing disability. You remind me of those people who laugh at those who stutter and consider them “dumb”. And then when those stutterers say something without stumbling — point the finger and say “were up all night practicing to speak like a normal person!” or “Talking well must be like walking on your hands….why don’t you shut up and let me show you how someone really talks well!”
You are simply cruel.
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@ Pay if Forward
Again? Cue violins!
Are you appealing for someone? someone to say please don’t leave, please.
You have dealt this card many, many times, haven’t you?
At one stage, I even asked you to stay. You made your re-entrance over and over and over. Sometimes with a new name…
Resting on dubious laurels.
But, also, and now, an innocent victim under siege from the prey she tormented for more than a year...I particular like how you switch from “tough” to “vulnerable” depending on what Abagond deletes.
Slick.
But transparent.
And, you proved my plagiarism? You are gaming me, everyone, PIF.
Because I don’t read, and have no education and recall nothing, that makes an airhead and criminal type. How nice.
Your plagiarism, to quote you directly:
Actually I attended 3. But what the hell do your thoughts on my being at some poxy universitIies have to do with anything? So what.
People learn so much more from experiencing life, listening, thinking, asking questions and reading on their own. They learn to think for themselves.
I HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
You thought I was DUMB and backward.
Even telling me what double negative was! Talking down to me.
Who the hell are you, anyway?
I state learned info all the time, I just phrase different to you. A crime, clearly.
I try to find references from old books too, now given away, sold, lost, forgotten.
And yes: some things can APPEAR plagiarized when they are not”
WHY DOESN’T THAT APPLY TO ME?
And what do you know of research?
Research is graft; it’s a thoroughness and interrogation that requires stamina and rigour and the thresher of ones’ peers.
I haven’t BEGUN cross referencing YOUR posts.
Many of which have no links or reference, btw.
So, we don’t know about YOU, and what you have been hiding all this time…
I can find more of your unlinked and cut and paste jobs from a number of periodicals and books. In the same link that Abagond provided above, you talk about pigs suckling on human teats…I wonder if what course material on etiology that comes from? Also reminiscent of something like “The Importance of the Pig in Pacific Island Culture”, particularly Melanesia.
And that is just one comment — ONE.
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abagond
“@ Bulanik
It is next to impossible to prove or disprove someone’s identity on the Internet. It amounts to an ad hominem,”
that’s funny
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but polemicism isn’t a fallacy is it? hmm
by that i mean that i really don’t care who knows who/where i am
and no it’s not impossible at all quite the contrary!
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… thief, charlatan, sociopath, pathological this and that, a treacherous snake in the high grass, being likened to Charles Manson, etc. etc.
It’s been a truly lovely journey.
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it is the height of artistic expression to provide a multi-tiered meaning to a given logical construct
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It is, v8. Many artistic constructs are exactly that: layerings of different constructions, and application/mastery of technique
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Oh, and Abagond, I do recall at least one unsourced / unlinked article posted by a commenter who has taken on, and without foundation, the habit of referring to me as a “white racist”, which began after I confronted him over racio-misogynistic comments of his. The reason I have not mentioned this until now is because I didn’t appear to be intentional (as I had my doubts at the time that he would even know the meaning of the term), and that there did not seem to be any attempt on his part to claim the work as his own as his own.
Bulanik can breath freely, and can scour my posts as well — all of them, going back 5 or more years, and even though the greater mass of her highly plagiarized comments have been wiped out, leaving only less than 16 months worth of her newly-minted plagiarism to scour through, I won’t waste my time doing that again.
[Bulanik, the massive cracks in your veneer are showing yet again, m’dear. Get out that vat of snake oil and make it quick!]
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Back so soon, and now as Nicotine and Caffeine are we now?
😀 😀 😀 😀
A new disguise? Who would have guessed?
Predictable…
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Are you actually white, Nicotine?
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Well, Nicotine, I HAVE quite a JUICY life, in between projects and commitments…but it could be quite the part-time hobby unpeeling so much un-scrutinized evidence of your cut and pastes all over Mr Abagond’s beloved blog
Frankly, I doubt if whether there will be any time, and even less inclination on my part…..really….but I suppose I could ask Abagond to check your IP address, because you have a lot of names, and start latest first — and make a little trivial pursuit out it, so to speak.
But it is pathetic and a very, very distasteful use time, if I had it.
I am quite different to you in my tastes, though.
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correction*
“But it is pathetic and a very, very distasteful use of time, if I had it.”
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@ Bulanik
You said:
“Hey, Wordy!
Aren’t you the one who tells us dark folks that they only talk about racism and not about books and art and stuff, which makes you feel like the odd one out?”
That is a complete mischaracterisation of the comment I made in the Open Thread.
I posed that question out of genuine curiosity. I think that most of the people who comment on this blog have a reason for doing so. I personally was first drawn to Abagond’s because of the simplicity and clarity of his writing style, as well as some of the very interesting posts he makes about literature.
That does not mean that I’m not interested in the other posts, or that I question why others would be. I just wish that Abagond’s posts about literary matters, writing techniques etc attracted as many comments because those are the posts that I personally love the most, and they are why I am addicted to reading this blog.
What has annoyed me lately about your comments is that you often pretend to know something and then just copy and paste something from the internet. The thread on Orwell’s essay ‘Shooting an Elephant’ was a case in point: instead of admitting that you haven’t actually read his work you just copied stuff from Wikipedia about the things he’s written.
It’s a matter of integrity Bulanik.
@ Abagond
Please don’t delete this, it’s unfair to let Bulanik can make accusation after accusation and then for me not to have a right of reply.
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There in one of my above posts is an old username of mine for ya to perform a search on (no, not “nicotine” but “Caffeine & Nicotine”). You might have time finding potentially plagiarist comments though as I mostly post my opinion rather than attempt to wax scholarly on evething from Cartology to mermaids to Kant to slavery in Russia (poor Branco Gato, he fell for your malarkey).
And I am truly do sympathize with you for your issues and hardships surrounding your dyslexia, I can only imagine what you’ve gone through because of it and people thinking that you are ret@rded (you are quite intelligent, actually), but it simply does not give you a license to be treacherous and dishonest, and for you to even going as far as to call anyone “a stalker,” “deranged,” and other unfounded labels, who catches you in your deceit . Anyone is free to read your published comments, and to challenge any of those same comments as well: by them doing so does not make them what you call a “stalker”.
You graced me with the title of “internet stalker” after I divulged your long-term plagiarism. This is one trait of sociopaths (you have many and I have shown this to be the case in past comments): with sociopaths, if they can’t deny an obvious wrongdoing on their part, they will simpy turn tables by accusing their accuser of being a spy (or a stalker). And may even physically attack the accuser.
You could not get at me in that way so you had a malicious and vicious hissy fit instead, and even managed to included an uninvolved third party in your attempt to flip the script . The only reason your nasty vitriol & accusations weren’t taken down until days later is because this same third party commenter demanded that they be taken down.
Tell me do you recall telling in her absence your tight chum Demerera to “read a book or something! Lol,” when she lost a debate to me and left the blog never to return? I myself thought it was a friendly discussion, but she apparently did not like being challenged, and turned the whole thing into a multi-comment heated debate. I still recall how had to scramble to look up sources that weren’t easily found because she asked for proof of my claims. My knowledge on the subject we were discussing (sexual relations between Black men & white women, particularly Irish women, during the US Slave era) did NOT come from Google Search but from research done by me years prior to my ever getting on a computer.
You had absolutely nothing to offer during that debate but you did say something to stir the pot afterward, to make her feel better when she had to finally concede the debate. When she did not return to the blog in the next few days, you made the “read a book or something” joke in regards to her losing the debate. You’re mean and you are a backstabber. You don’t truly like anyone. You encouraged Legion to flirt with when he asked you, point blank, if it was okay with you, and you replied, “yes”. Now, only a short time later, you state that you were reviled by his flirtations.
This is the man, as well as Jefe, and Linda, who went to bat for you, and defended you like you were a wayward child, the next morning, after I published examples of you plagiarism. There were even a few others who were trying to get all huffy with me for exposing your dreck. Kwamla did and actually accused your exposer of being an envious liar, and did not back down from that statement even when he was directed to proof of your deceit. I’ve noticed that he rarely posts but will come out of the woodwork even to this day to defend your deceitfulness (his sense of inferiority to Black Americans came to light in the “12 years a Slave” thread where he again accused me of being envious, but on this occasion it was of Afro Brits instead of you).
Linda, Legion, though, never got nasty with me, even as they attempted to defend your bad behavior they did not become nasty. When you came back weeks later, however, you thoroughly blessed them out, and it most definitely was because they had NOT become hateful towards me in their defense of you (yes, I still remember that, and I thank you both for it, Linda and Legion).
Jefe, I recall, told you, directly after your malicious attempts to flip the script on to me, to simply ignore that commenter, or words to that effect, and could not even manage to mention my name. I had never been unfriendly towards him, though I had noticed how he would rarely respond to my replies to his comments.
I liked Jefe, he is smart and knowlegeable regarding the history of not just his own ethnicities but those of other oppressed peoples as well. I also liked Demerera and you too and have told you as much but being liked only means a sort of safety net for you, you don’t actually care about those who admire you. And sooner or later you do tend too show your true colors to those who have befriended you (yeah, and how about that snarky remark of yours to Mary Burrell because she wanted a bit of acknowlegment from you about her already having offered the same bit of common sense wisdom belatedly posted by you in the Gentlemen thread, and as sniping aimed at Legion??)
@ WordyNerdy: it is too bad that you are more of a reader than a commenter on this blog. You are a well-informed and thought-provoking commenter, and it would have been great to have heard more from you. Thank you so much for speaking out on my behalf.
@ Bulanik, hopefully it is not too late for you to get some help for that raging personality disorder you’re are dealing with alone, and to your own detriment, as well as to the detriment of others. And please try to do so before you manage to do any real damage — if you haven’t already, that is ….Other than that, here’s my blessing to you: may you get everything, and more, that you deserve in life (which is pretty neutral, I’d say, but how you go about interpreting it is your business).
Oh, and my apologies, everyone, for the lengthy post but I simply had to get all of this off my chest before finally saying…
Toodles! 🙂
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PIF…I hear you…I dont really have many freinds on here either …and , I dont care, because I have something to say…and you do to , and , should keep saying it…
Dont wait for agreement, people will take note even if they dont say anything…and , Ill be honest, Im reluctant to join in some of this , because I will get banned, because I have trouble holding back…
But , even past the noted personal stuff, I know underneath , the statements on the political tip , are bringing in lies , viscous absurd obscene , like cia sponcered LSD suicide missions,ridiculous lies about cia inventing Isis , Boko Harém , and other Islamic militant fundimentalist murdering groups, and it needs to be countered and challenged…this is an energy that is pushed on here , and has undertones of a reality that should be stood up to…this lying cant be cured, it can only be challenged
And the personal stuff, I just keep both barrels locked and loaded…and that “girl ” thing was even more innocent, since I thought I was repeating a phrase of someone, and wasnt even making a statement..
And , you should just go ahead and say what you need , someone will take note, more than you think, and let it play out….you dont have to leave , but , I understand if you do…I know I feel against the grain here on certain topics , in many ways , this blog is not my cultural tribe, dancers I work with , would be put on the chopping bloc in some threads, I will defend them until the end…its more literary and college grad oriented ….the anti interracial sex implications are towerjng infernos , and it disgusts me , and I dont blame Abagond, and think the blog is great….but, in spite of feeling like I dont want to post, I realised I have something to say….and can contribute…..there is so much knowledge of black American political agenda , but so little knowledge of black American cultural history….I absolutly can contribute to that
You have to do what you think is right , if you keep posting, you will be read, but I understand if you decide not to….
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@ Pay It Forward
I really hope you keep commenting here. You don’t comment that often either but when you do it’s always when there’s something worth saying.
Maybe just scroll past, I’m going to try it.
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Pay It Forward,
I have truly been very busy past for the past few weeks and I must say, I’m in utter shock about what I’ve just read/seen today. I come to this blog to relax or rather, vegetate
because in real life, I got a lot of stress from work just dealing with people (I lost 2 cases this week) and of course family (ie pocketbook, another kid starting college; grown men acting like they just exited my womb) – this blog is an outlet for me.
What does that have to do with you? not much,
I just wanted to say that I would miss you and your commentaries if you go.
and as I said before — you should stay— don’t let anyone or anything chase you away.
This blog is unique in that the people who comment here have such diverse opinions and lives.
I understand your need to “check” what you perceive to be something wrong but we all have idiosyncrasies that get on each others “nerves” as far as this blog goes.
I know that it bothers some people when I call myself “brown” (some people are foot soldiers for the “one drop rule”), even though I myself have called/identified myself as “black” when it suits me
BR drives me nuts when he uses music analogy in almost every conversation, whether it is relevant or not, but for the most part, I still enjoy his commentaries … especially, when he gets mad about communism or anti-Americanism… I can imagine the steam coming out his ears! 🙂
Sondis and other black men commenters have pis me off with their “anti-black women dating white men” stance because it typically turns the conversation ugly and nothing is gained
but I value what they have to say as black men because they are giving us their insights and points of view, raw and in our face, whether we like it or not.
I’m not down with militant black or other non-white people because being mixed-raced; in real life, I’ve already experienced being drawn in and then kicked out depending on the whim or mood of the group
I’m sure many of us drive Abagond crazy with some of the foolishness that we bring up but all, in all, that’s what makes this blog tick… we can’t all be expected to conform to expectations of the group, or this blog would be boring.
I hope you Stay
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@Linda
You put it better than I could have.
@pay it forward
I will have to read and catch up on what is going on, but I hope (like many) that you continue to comment. Even though you comment very little, it is always a powerful message.
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@ Abagond, please don’t delete this comment: it’s unfair to let Wordnerdygirl make accusation after accusation and then for me not to have a right of reply.
@ Wordy
With respect, I was reading Orwell before you were born.
For one, I HAD to read Orwell at school.
It is standard in the English Lit school curriculum in schools there for English Lit O level, in my day. Actually it is still is for GCSE English exams in the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2642250/JB-Priestley-called-English-GCSE-line-Author-joins-George-Orwell-English-writers-new-exam-syllabus.html
I also read him because he was Required Reading later on as well.
That’s why I mentioned the Shooting an Elephant essay on the “coolie” thread, and its contents here in an answer to Abagond:
You think YOU KNOW me, don’t you Wordy? You don’t.
The thing is this: I dared to disagree with you on the thread you mentioned about Orwell’s racism. You did not like it, because you attack those who contradict you or won’t sway to your annoyance and anger.
And because I did that, and have good reasons for it, you jump on the band wagon to smear me by telling me I haven’t read Orwell — basically saying that I am a liar — therefore my opinion counts for nothing.
Or at least you WANT my opinion to count for nothing.
That is ad hominem.
You though, have: “…read just about every essay, work of fiction and letter that has ever been published of Orwell’s so my opinion is based on a fairly extensive knowledge of his work.”
That’s quite a claim, considering Orwell did not write only 9 books, but numerous essays, journalism (including 379 reviews), more than 1,000 letters, diaries, BBC material during the war, the “street-fighting tactics” lectures….yet you don’t seem to count his antisemitism when he betrayed his Jewish “friends” and fellow travellers (in around 1945 or thereabouts). If time allows, I will look it up.
But sure, YOU KNOW better. YOU KNOW I haven’t “actually read his work, just copied from Wikipedia”.
YOU KNOW this because you KNOW me personally, know my life and aren’t just saying this to cover your own ass and capitalize on the momentum of plying your particular brand of politics.
There’s something I have noticed about you: if someone challenges one of your dearly-held opinions, you don’t counter-argue on the issue, you go for the PERSON, and label them instead. You did this on Boko Haram, and you also on the ISIS thread. Look how you are piggy-backing here again.
You seem to be very, very easily “threatened” and turn nasty when you are.
So, please don’t lecture me about “integrity”.
You don’t have any monopoly on it.
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@ Wordy
Then, you say I “completely mischaracterised” a comment you made in the Open Thread. What you posed was an open question to regulars, why do you post here? You said:
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@ Wordy
Then, you say I “completely mischaracterised” a comment you made in the Open Thread. What you posed was an open question to regulars, why do you post here? You said:
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Abagond, please delete these comments to Wordy — they duplicates, posted twice because I messed up the block quotes.
Thanks.
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Há há , Linda….you know, we have had some strong debates on here, but, when it was over, I never felt personaly attacked, like I have been by other commenters…and I do value your South Flórida sensibilities ….
By the way, its not really frothing anger at anti Americanism , its cold blooded , hard edged focus…that wont back down…long term exposure to anti Americanism and Marxist lies , up close, forges a hard steel of a defence , that will bristle if insulted….gosh you got to love South Flórida Cubans , you know how they feel about Che
PIF , you made a couple of interesting observations, like some of the dusapearing black Americans on the blog, and you mentioned the incident about my ethnic curiosity, of how a person might look…I might add, I have exactly the same curiosity about you, Linda , Sharina , Abagond , everyone on here…cyber blipdom is a dragy way to debate …that my curiosity was manipulated into being some kind of stalk is something that will not be forgotten by me….more than anything, this manipulation is what the driving force is underneath many of these issues…
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Ok Bulanik. Pay it Forward may not have the energy to dig up the evidence of your plagiarism, but I’m going to do it tonight. Check the Comment Thread in an hour or two.
You haven’t read Orwell’s work, and you hadn’t read any of Hitchens’ work either. That’s why you referred to Peter Hitchens (because you read the Daily Mail) rather than his more talented brother.
You blatantly copied and pasted stuff in your diatribe about Orwell.
Here’s a photo of just a small segment of my collection (hopefully this works):
[IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/ea33vb.jpg[/IMG]
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@ Abagond
Can’t figure out how to post a photo…
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Re PIF’s earlier comment…
Told y’all.
PIF had no intention of going. NONE.
No one asked her to go. Certainly not me.
I don’t see the point of people leaving the blog. It’s a blog, a forum.
Saying one is “going” because of this or that is Drama.
I have said to PIF on previous occasions, leave me be, but it was ALWAYS HER IDEA TO EXIT.
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And here’s a photo of the book of essays by Hitchens on Orwell:
[IMG]”http://i58.tinypic.com/9t0p5h.jpg”[/IMG]
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Wordy, what are you talking about?
Your hubris astounds..
I checked how many of works there are.
To check the list of a writer’s work is “plagiarist”.
I said Peter Hitchens because Peter is better known in England than his dead brother. Chris went to the US and Peter stayed behind. And no, I don’t read the Daily Mail.
And because you can send me a photo of your bookshelf, that means YOU KNOW WHAT I READ WHEN I WAS AT SCHOOL?
Prove that I never read his work? The onus is on you.
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@ Bulanik
And you are again mischaracterising my remark. I was NOT saying that others ‘talk too much about racism’ or anything like that.
What I WAS saying was a love Abagond’s writing style and the posts he makes about books etc. For me, that is the main reason why I read this blog every day, and they are the posts I enjoy most. That does not imply in any way that the other posts aren’t important or meaningful.
Many of the posters on this blog are extremely well educated and informed. There are several commenters whose writing style I also really admire.
Just off the top of my head I would say Legion, King, Jefe, Phoebeprunelle and, yes, Pay it Forward are all really great writers who always have something interesting to say. I wish I could write as clearly and succinctly as them.
If you paid attention to other people’s conversations on this blog you would have noticed that I have had debates with all of these commenters. Some of those debates have been quite heated.
The fact that I disagree with someone does not mean that I don’t admire other things about them.
Anyway, what I don’t like about what you do is that you pretend to have expertise in a topic just so you can sway other posters to your view. You do this for fun, and not because of deeply held beliefs. Otherwise you would take the trouble of doing proper research.
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@ Bulanik
Peter Hitchens is not better known that Christopher Hitchens in the UK. Try again.
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@ Bulanik
Ok, tell me which of Orwell’s books you’ve read. Summarise one in a paragraph.
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Contd
@ PIF
This is not the first time you have put out a general appeal that you are going.
To garner approval and stock-take your “popularity”.
You have done this attention-seeking and friend-rallying thing time after time. You will stoop to any level and say ANYTHING to give yourself the star quality you believe you lack.
You greatly remind of James Brown and his cape act…help me, help me, help me, pleeeeeeeeeeese, help meeeeeeeeeee, come one…
Watch him leave the stage… I hurt, wounded…I’m leaving….no, please don’t go Pay it Forward, please stay….
Then you continue and say you don’t wax scholarly, mainly your opinion.
I supppose I “never” post my opinion. And because I like maps, had to read Kant at college, and took an interest in slavery and Russia — it is too much for you accept. You say:
You then attack people who no longer post here:
Demerera left this blog not because of you, PIF.
She left due to a bereavement, and a serious disease.
****
Then, PIF, you are back to kicking my character and personal life:
I actually proposed to speak to Legion by email about this rather than embarrassing him on a public blog. I said “yes” to be diplomatic and just keep distant and polite.
Further:
Beg your pardon, PIF, but the commenters I know off-line are none of your business. You are going too far. YOU ALWAYS DO.
Then you talk about another British commenter, Kwamla, saying:
You are prone to malicious mischief, methinks.
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@ Wordy
“Peter Hitchens is not better known that Christopher Hitchens in the UK. Try again.”
How do you know that? How often did what Question Time or Newnight in the last 20 years?
Provide proof of my viewing patterns too.
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@ Wordy
“Ok, tell me which of Orwell’s books you’ve read. Summarise one in a paragraph”
And, are you gonna “grade” me?
First Animal Farm, then 1984, why i write, Aspidistra (not finished), the Penguin Classic book, which I can’t find. Aspidistra is probably the most depressing:it’s about the power of money and “escaping” it. The first are 2 fables about inequality and the perversion of ideological ideas, the latter of the 2 featured a human character and his persecution (also torture).
It was set in dismal place after a war.
I don’t have to pander to you, Miss SelfAppointed.
Why not send me a photo of your LIBRARY?
whilst you ARE at it, tell me what Orwell said about his fellow travellers who were Jews and why?
Now. I shall be giving you marks out of ten. Make an effort.
And because you have READ EVERYTHING and know all there is to know about Orwell, I expect at least 3 full paragraphs of an answer.
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Bulanik
You are again trawling the internet for theories. Here’s where you got this one: (http://forward.com/articles/160496/was-george-orwell-an-anti-semite/?p=all).
How do I know this? Because one of the first Google result returned when you search for Orwell and Hitchens together. Which is what you did (and you always do) when I mentioned something that you don’t actually know about, so that you can pretend to know about it.
Here’s my answer: I don’t agree with the views expressed in the article. The author bases his conclusion on two quotes, one a simple “Must check this’ quote in Orwell’s diary. Orwell went through a transformation of views in his early – mid youth, and you’d know this if you’d read much of his work.
By the way, why do you constantly try and pull me into discussions about anti-Semitism? I have never spoken about my ethno-religious heritage so why are you trying to drag things in that are out of the scope of our discussion?
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^^ And how hard is it to admit, for once, that you have something to learn on a topic? I have never, ever noticed you learn from another commenter or admit to any gaps in your knowledge.
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@ Wordy
I gave my opinion. I did not mischaracterise, you just appeared as what you are, and now you realise how condescending and insensitive it might have sounded.
You don’t have to explain what you said. I understand it.
No need to talk down to someone like they are “retarded” to use PIF’s word.
It might make you appear rude…even when you are not.
There are some educated and very interesting people on here.
You rate highly those that are acquiesce with you, and “rubbish” those that you oppose you or will not BEND to you.
Look: I don’t pretend.
You just find it INCONCEIVABLE that a person my age (I am one generation older than you, Wordy), could have:
1. a wide range of interests
2. was reading and writing and doing stuff before you were born.
You probably can’t countenance that I was at University before you were conceived…!
I don’t have strongly held beliefs?
What do you know?
You call me a “consipiracy theorist” to undermine my positions.
Because I am always searching and asking questions it means I don’t have beliefs or opinions and stand for nothing? Who the feck are you?
What do you know of COMMITMENT? CONVICTION? PASSION?
Your problem is that you do not read my posts in the spirit they are intended. You harbour only SIMPLE DISLIKE and, also this now: a desire to malign.
The more I read you, you write out of malice and arrogance.
You also cherry pick a great deal. I find you unsound and in my book — you lack credibilty…
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B.R.
Lol. I never thought of you as a stalker(and I would hope no one has) or anyone on here as one really. 🙂
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@ Wordy
Okqy, Wordy. I learned of his antisemitism through South African Jews that I lived with in the 1980s. At the time, I had learned about my the Jews in both my father’s and mother’s families.
This was before the internet was invented. Get over pompous self.
Further, I didn’t know there was an internet link between Orwell and Hitchens.
The last time I’d heard Orwell’s antisemitism brought up was by Andrew Marr.
Suck on that.
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And re Christopher Hitchens v Peter Hitchens:
Google.co.uk search (restrict results to UK only):
Christopher: 519,000 results (0.31 seconds)
Peter: About 454,000 results (0.32 seconds)
Quote from The Guardian:
“It was Hitchens’s defining misfortune, almost 61 years ago, to be born the younger brother of the more famous writer Christopher.” (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/21/peter-hitchens-addiction-drugs-war)
Quote from UK Spectator (headline):
“He wants to bring back hanging and believes we are in a state of terminal moral decline: Peter Hitchens, brother of the more famous Christopher.”
(http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/he-wants-to-bring-back-hanging-and-believes-we-are-in-a-state-of-terminal-moral-decline-peter-hitchens-brother-of-the-more-famous-christopher-8206479.html).
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@
Jews are not only a religion. They are also a people, or a “race”, and you had mentioned that Orwell had put away his racism.
And I don’t do it constantly. Did you bring this up?
Show some discipline and don’t muddy the waters, Wordy.
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@ wordy
I haven’t lived in the UK for 10 years.
I asked you to provid proof of MY viewing patterns, since you confidently, or rather over-confidently, said you knew where and how I know what I know and how I arrived at my conclusions.
So, tell me. Dont’ give me demographics and google. If you are goingn to be personal, and then BE personal.
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@ Bulanik
I don’t ‘rate’ people. In fact, two of the people I listed are commenters I regularly (almost always) disagree with.
I’ll list more though. I also like Ebonymonroe, Mary Burrell and Sharina. The only one of those three commenters that I think I’ve had a proper friendly back and forth with is Ebonymonroe.
You haven’t answered my question: when will you admit to having some gaps in your knowledge? We all have them. I have gaps in mine – what are yours?
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“It was Hitchens’s defining misfortune, almost 61 years ago, to be born the younger brother of the more famous writer Christopher.”
You had to look up google to learn that?
It is well known through the Dimbleby debates who the brothers.
“He wants to bring back hanging and believes we are in a state of terminal moral decline: Peter Hitchens, brother of the more famous Christopher.”
Huh? What are you trying to prove?
Now, it’s getting pathetic.
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@ Bulanik
So now you’re an expert on Jewishness? Now that I want to see.
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@ Abagond.
Please delete my last 5 comments in this thread. I don’t want to do this back and forth any more, I know I’m getting nasty in response to the sniping from Bulanik and I don’t want to continue this.
I’ll refrain from directing any comments at Bulanik, but can you ask her not to comment on my remarks either? Then we can just leave it there.
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Where did I say did? Whilst we are at it, how do you react people who make you feel most threatened by their PoVs or politics?
Wordy, do you read my comments, ever with any kind of clear head or just dislike and sneer? I often say I don’t know something. You have never noticed, have you? Why? I suggest, because it doesn’t suit your agenda.
It would be convenient if you actually SAW many, many instances of saying i don’t know, there’s a gap or so on….
For instance this week, on the “coolies” thread:
************************
Should I be seeking your pompous approval? Who ARE YOU, anyway?
What has everyone got to do to appear “all right” in your eyes….?
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@ Bulanik
WTF? You constantly follow my posts on this blog. Haven’t you noticed that I haven’t directly addressed you for months? Yet you constantly butt into almost every exchange I have on here.
You also constantly make snide remarks about me. What about the ridiculous comments you dropped about the photo with my husband? Talk about passive aggressive.
And you know what? I do have specialist knowledge in some areas. If you pay attention to the topics that I do make lengthy comments on, those are the areas because I don’t like to pretend to have knowledge about areas where I don’t.
I will not be responding any more. Why don’t we agree not to respond to one another’s comments from now on?
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@ Wordy
Aha. Because I told you about people I lived with and what we talked about, I am now an expert on Jewishness. This was over 30 years ago…
If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought you sounded like a petulant school girl who flips out when she can’t get to be Queen Bee of the class..!
And now you are asking Abagond to delete your responses because you didn’t get to “expose” me and belittle me as easily as you thought it would be.
It’s “sniping” when you have no argument to counter.
Your digs and insults are all sweetness and light. Don’t you like it when someone doesn’t “fold” when you give them a bashing?
Okay, sulk and take your ball with you as you leave the schoolyard, Wordynerdygirl.
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@ Wordy
I see what you are like. You accuse someone of lying about knowing about a little detail. They explain how they came by thing, from way back, and then you, being a commenter of good sense and good will retort — so now you are an EXPERT on this thing.
I never said anything of the kind.
You are merely threatened and have made of complete fool of yourself by trying to make a fool out of me.
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Correction:
Wordy
You are merely threatened and have made a complete fool of yourself by trying to make a fool out of me.
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Why don’t you all do a guest post on a topic that you know something about or about a book (or chapter of a book) that you actually read and then discuss it on that post. It would kill several birds with one stone. It would give you a chance to share about a topic that there is no doubt that you know something about (as it is a post you actually wrote).
If someone challenges you about that post, then you can either defend it, rebut it, or admit that you got something wrong. No harm in all of that and it could even create an interesting discussion.
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Bulanik
I made a simple comment of support to PIF, not attacking you directly but stating that I understood where she was coming from.
It was you who launched into very nasty ad hominem attacks. And again, what about the snide remarks?
At the risk of sounding ‘childish’ again, if anyone seeks to be Queen Bee here it’s you. After all, you constantly butt in on everyone else’s conversations with your never ending, boring cut and paste jobs.
The end. Keep writing, I will not reply. And yes, I will be posting examples of your plagiarism tonight.
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@ jefe
Great idea. I’ll take it up if the others do.
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There is no need to wait for anyone else. I went ahead an submitted a few guest posts, even some that have never been published yet.
In fact, a couple I submitted because I was fed up with a couple of trolls that came on here.
I admit that I do not know everything about any of the posts I submitted – the purpose was to have a discussion about a topic I either know a little bit about or was interested in.
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@ Wordy
I follow your posts? Do not flatter yourself. And please show me PROOFS.
The last time you addressed me was in a conversation this month on ISIS,
and also in a conversation with Leigh204 on OT.
Would you like to me find that comment, with date?
So, again, more rubbish and exaggeration from you.
Constantly? Snide?
I refuted your remarks where you tried to belittle me and undermine my standpoint (again) by calling my views “conspiracy theories”.
Or have you forgotten? Would you like to see the evidence?
Your husband? I thought I agreed with Mary Burrell that you were an attractive couple. Talk about DESPERATE, Wordy… the “desperate” being YOU.
EVERYONE has specialist knowledge in some area or way.
You are not special or the most educated person here — there are many more commenters (me NOT included) who could reasonably be described as having wide ranging and profound experience/knowledge of a field or even a specialism. Get over yourself.
You, unlike me, do profess “extensive” knowledge.
And you, unlike me, make it a point to rubbish my remarks because they do not tally with certain politics. This — all THIS – is just your way of getting back at me for that.
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@ Wordy
When reason and argument breaks down you follow the predictable pattern.
Lying.
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No Bulanik, you twice made comments that ‘someone’ posted a photo claiming to be of them or something to that effect, You know what those remarks were. And you make those remarks a lot, usually with a smiley face after to soften the blow.
The comment on the ISIS thread was to counter the ridiculous guff that you were peddling. You ARE a conspiracy theorist, because instead of looking at the evidence and coming to a view, you look on the infowars site and buy their version hook, line and sinker.
I did not take a ‘pro-US’ stance at all. In fact, I think I have a fairly nuanced view about the whole ISIS situation, a view that does not tee up with the foreign policy approach adopted by the US Government.
I’ve mentioned before that I studied political science at postgrad level. While I was still an undergrad, I won a prize for my essay on the definition of terrorism – I even used some of the ideas from that essay in my comments here. I’m happy to post it here in full if you’d like to read it.
So yes, I do have special knowledge in the area, knowledge that I’ve built up through research and hard work.
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You started this Wordy.
You can give it, but you can’t take it.
***********************************************
Whilst you at it, you also claimed I cut and posted from the info wars website.
Prove it.
In the meanwhile, if time allows, I will see where your posts are — I haven’t read most of them actually — and find out what you have been cutting and pasting and passing off as your own “integrity”.
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I never plagiarise. Not the way I do things Bulanik.
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Wow its some drama in here hopefully i will bag my limit before i get back to the hood tonight…
@bulanik i was just vamping there i didnt think entendre or ambuigity as literary devices really apply fully to where i was goin lol
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Wordy, I thought you said you were off and weren’t going to reply anymore?
Do you think when I make a comment “you” are the subject of it?
Why?
And what you peddle isn’t guff? You aren’t a Coincidence Theorist and naive, to boot? You think only you can think and search for answers in this world?
As I said, I tend to form my opinions about the Middle East if I am IN the Middle East, and then think about it afterwards. I am not a sheep like you, or a shepherd, as you think you are some kind of leader of thought here.
I didn’t say you were pro-US. You gave a possible theory, that’s all.
I have read your stuff on terrorism.
In the late 1990s I wrote a dissertation for my Masters, but I’d have to ask my mother for the floppy disc of it, and she’s in the US.
I’ve worked in a number of fields, and built up some proficiency in them, I hope.
I read a lot (buy about 2 or 3 books a week*), and where I am, tjhere are many, many of well educated people (a university town). My ex is a lecturer in one of the Faculties, and I working on a project with Phd researchers right now — there’s a lull right now as my contact is in Sardinia.
* Last week I acquired George Crile’s “My Enemy’s Enemy” and Walter Russell Mead’s “God and Gold”.
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What was your dissertation about? And why is it on floppy? Dissertations, once accepted, are printed in volume form and stored at the university.
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@ Wordy
No, it isn’t, Wordy. But what if some of your comments sound eerily familiar?
What I found some paragraphs that sounded old-hat and made me suspicious?
Does that make you that thing?
You lie and exaggerate here. That’s not the way to go, Wordy.
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^^ and if you have multiple academic qualifications, how did you pick up the habit of plagiarising without attribution? Because you were busted last year plagiarising articles word for word.
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Bulanik, point out examples of my comments which constitute plagiarism. I have never plagiarised on this blog or elsewhere. It’s unethical and something I would never do.
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Wordy,
Can you tell me before computers were what they are now, how documents were stored?
The subject was freedom of movement in the EU, challenges and comparative studies.
The dissertation wasn’t just accepted it was required. My tutors had their copies.
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@ wordy
What did I say earlier? I’d have to go through your comments with a fine tooth comb. I don’t have all yoru comments. I haven’t even read all your comments.
(You see, I don’t follow you! Not even constantly.)
But I said this: “But what if some of your comments sound eerily familiar?
What I found some paragraphs that sounded old-hat and made me suspicious?
Does that make you that thing?”
Do you think everything you write is absolutely original and could never be vaguely familiar from knomlege gathered?
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Um. You just basically demonstrated to anyone here with a tertiary education that you are fibbing.
I am going to bed now as it’s nearly 1am. I really hope Abagond culls this thread altogether.
I simply don’t have the free time that you do to make post after post after post here.
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^^ and if you have multiple academic qualifications, how did you pick up the habit of accusing me without attribution?
Because I was busted? Yay. Busted — like blown apart?
Tell me about the busting, Wordy.
You mean definitively and for sure? Come now. Show me level.
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Bulanik
Of course things can sound ‘vaguely’ familiar because we all pick up concepts through our studies and through casual reading as well. If some of your comments were just ‘vaguely familiar’ I would not accuse you of plagiarising.
The problem is that most of your comments are summarised or word for word versions of articles, stories or posts that you’ve found through a google search. Plagiarism also includes summarising another person’s idea without attribution – it’s not just direct copying and pasting.
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Correction
Come on now. Show me your level.
Tell me about being BUSTED. Show me the quality of your high mind.
The academic who resorts to rejoicing in another being “busted” because that other points out her condescension, naivete, manipulation, lying and transparency. Weak, Wordy, weak.
Understand:
You are not the first who accused me of lying.
You have proved NOTHING. Except tried to give me a drubbing.
And failed.
Let’s see:
–You weren’t even born when I was reading Orwell.
–You hadn’t been conceived when I was doing my Diploma.
–You don’t even know how documents were stored in the olden days.
You get bent outta shape because I know EXACTLY what your problem.
And if I read you, I could be more specific.
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GIVE IT UP and go to your bed.
Anyone with any education (formal or not) and life experience knows that is the fundamental nature of knowledge and its dissemination.
The problem is that most of your comments are summarised or word for word versions of articles, stories or posts that you’ve found through a google search. Plagiarism also includes summarising another person’s idea without attribution – it’s not just direct copying and pasting.
You also believe you have “extensive” knowledge or feel “left out” in discussion about racism.
The problem I am having with that^^ is that it only your belief, because you simply want to attribute intentions to someone else’s comments just becasue you don’t like them.
and your chosen method: ad hominem and personal attack.
Aren’t you Johnny Come Lately, a Piggy-backer and one that has jumped on the Bandwagon, because that way your politics can move more and more to the centre stage on Abagond’s blog without opposition.
I was reading Orwell before you were born, Wordy.
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GIVE IT UP and go to your bed.
Anyone with any education (formal or not) and life experience knows that is the fundamental nature of knowledge and its dissemination.
You also believe you have “extensive” knowledge or feel “left out” in discussion about racism.
The problem I am having with that^^ is that it only your belief, because you simply want to attribute intentions to someone else’s comments just becasue you don’t like them.
and your chosen method: ad hominem and personal attack.
Aren’t you Johnny Come Lately, a Piggy-backer and one that has jumped on the Bandwagon, because that way your politics can move more and more to the centre stage on Abagond’s blog without opposition.
I was reading Orwell before you were born, Wordy.
The fact is: some of your comments sound re-hashed and familiar. Stuff that I’ve read year in year out.
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Nope, you haven’t read any of Orwell’s stuff. You can’t even summarise one of his books in a paragraph.
And why didn’t you put MY WORDS in quotes:
“The problem is that most of your comments are summarised or word for word versions of articles, stories or posts that you’ve found through a google search. Plagiarism also includes summarising another person’s idea without attribution – it’s not just direct copying and pasting.”
They are my words, please attribute them to me.
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@ Abagond please delete this duplicate comment.
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Wordy,
Are you saying I never went to school? Just because I won’t pander to you and give you want you want.
Where is the proof that you have about Peter Hitchens and my dissertation?
Are you saying I never went to school?
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@ Bulanik
And please don’t revise history. Pay it Forward busted you a year ago and Abagond confirmed that you lifted whole paragraphs of your comments from unattributed sources.
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“They are my words, please attribute them to me.”
I did.
Prove to me that I never went to school and never read Orwell for O level English Literature? Obey, like you expect me to obey your commands.
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@ Wordy
And please don’t tell lies about me constantly following you and tlaking about your husband. You were OUTED as Coincidence Theorist. Naive.
Look how can’t see anything but your own intellectual and moral superiority.
I busted you on being “odd one out”..
Do you remember what i said about those sources, Wordy?
Now be careful.
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Wordy,
Don’t attribute words to those that did not say them. Do not put them in quotes. And be careful of other liars, like PIF. When you jump on their bandwagon, your critical senses will suffer and you will end up making accusation after accusation and look more and more like a petulant and controlling fool.
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As for revising history.
You accused me of cutting and pasting from Infowars on the ISIS thread.
Yet I refuted Islamophobia (something you remain silent on…) and said I had not formed a conclusion yet. I didn’t know, I wasn’t sure.
You also claimed that I never admit holes in my knowledge.
But I do.
You are a liar, a con, and slanderer when she can’t get her way.
So, please don’t revise history, try to wriggle out of it, and make up stories.
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And you are an Expert on Orwell, but you still can’t tell me what he said about his Jewish fellow travellers.
I tired of your pretentious fakery.
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I repeat, I have not plagiarised any of my comments. Feel free to trawl through them.
I always include include a source if I refer to evidence in a document or another person’s idea.
I didn’t say you talked about my husband, I said you made a couple of snide remarks about the picture i posted up. Here’s one of them:
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-246315)
Goodnight. I’m tired.
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@ Jefe
Great idea.
Better than ad hominem about who knows or doesn’t know what.
Better than trawling through other commenters’ posts looking for possible similarities with exisitng writings.
That is the way forward.
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Wordy
Get off your high horse.
You don’t always anything. Your writing has a “familiar” ring to it, that I have heard before your brith!! Many many many things sound familiar when you get a certain age. You just don’t know that yet.
Then, more silliness:
Jeez, Wordy. WRONG. You thought I was talking about you?
No, not at all!
No. I was referring to DeepdarkChoclate (or a name similar) who made that claim. That happened twice with her. Abagond deleted that. I think it was on the Numero Uno thread.
You shouldn’t assume so much. Not everything is about you. Not everyone is as evil and bad as you want to think they are. Sorry, but you really have the wrong end of the stick and are HELLBENT on driving something that goes nowhere.
Sleep well.
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Still at it? What time is it in Australia?
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Re: doing a guest post
@wordynerdygirl
@Bulanik
OK, now we have both of you agreeing to the SAME idea.
It takes time to organize an idea for the post, unless you have one on the shelf already. Pitch your idea in an email to Abagond to see if he thinks it fits with what he wants to put up on his blog. Draft your idea and send a couple of pictures if possible. Try to connect it to some of the other posts on his blog. He will take care of the rest.
Imagine all the time you spent on trading spats when you could have put together an interesting post that we could be discussing. 😛
It will be your point of view, so no one can say it is wrong per se. If there is an error, it can easily be corrected.
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@ Herneith…lol.
@ Jefe
Hmmm. I have a number of ideas…
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I see things up on comment policy…
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wait for it copyright left etc for me right now it’s not how many words will do it’s what those words will do for you
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I am posting this on behalf of Demerera:
Tell me do you recall telling in her absence your tight chum Demerera to “read a book or something! Lol,” when she lost a debate to me and left the blog never to return? I myself thought it was a friendly discussion, but she apparently did not like being challenged, and turned the whole thing into a multi-comment heated debate. I still recall how had to scramble to look up sources that weren’t easily found because she asked for proof of my claims. My knowledge on the subject we were discussing (sexual relations between Black men & white women, particularly Irish women, during the US Slave era) did NOT come from Google Search but from research done by me years prior to my ever getting on a computer.
Let me start by saying I only took particular notice of the post that referred to me as a commenter – no others.
As has been correctly intimated, I have not commented on this blog for some time and I will not be posting again for the foreseeable future – Please, dont take it personally Pay it Forward 😉
Pay it Forward – I do not fully remember the discussion that we had that ended in what you term a ‘heated debate’ (please dont bother to unearth the thread, I no longer care either – I have a life to get on with outside of cyberspace 😉 ). Maybe I was wrong about what was being discussed- it happens, I put my hands up and I will say that I am not particularly well read and I tended to write more about what I had experienced/what has been passed down to me, more than anything. But our butting heads on a subject had little or nothing to do with my decision to not continue posting and it is more than a little arrogant of you to presume so. Interesting that you could not easily find the sources to back up your claim and that your assertions came from your own research from which you only had hard copies i.e. pre computers – but, in the meantime I was supposed to trust your assertions alone because ‘you said so?’ That after all this time you insist on using this example to settle a score makes me believe that you probably were accurate about what you were trying to say but as for just taking your word for it at that time, I am sure you can see how conceited what you have said looks – that I was wrong because of something you ‘just happened to know from your reasearch’ that I myself could not have been privy to because it was ‘years before you ever got a computer’! By the way, you certainly were not the first or the only commenter to disagree with me so that alone would certainly not have deterred me from coming back to the blog.
I am surprised that you think it is ‘right’ or justified for you to write about a past commenter in this way. In one of your comments you state ‘I also liked Demerera’ – really? You appear to have a strong sense of morality so it is surprising that you feel it is ‘ok’ to write about a situation that had as far as I was concerned, long since been put to bed whilst colluding with a commenter in their ridicule of me!
I know my limitations and dont have any illusions about myself but neither should anybody. EVERYBODY has things to learn in life and there is not a single person who is immune from this no matter how well researched, qualified or read they are!!!!!!!!
Pay it Forward – there is a saying that says something like ‘chose your battles wisely’ and I suggest instead of muck raking up what are actually irrelevant things from the dim and distant past you deal with things openly and honestly. Your interpretation of things is questionable at best and makes your motivation for raising them show you in a bad light which I am sure you do not intend. You clearly have a point to put across and an axe to grind but trying to humiliate me in this way is not the way to do it.
For the record and from what I recall, I essentially ‘liked’ how you came across too – this is even now in spite of how you have portrayed yourself in your commentary about me to date!!. I also learned so much from contributing on this blog but I do not miss commenting
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Who is Demerera?
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@ Abagond
Do you have proof that Demarara is posting from a different country than Bulanik? If not, why didn’t she post her own comment?
Seems a bit strange.
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@ Wordy
That comment was emailed to me using the same email address and name that Demerera used two years ago when sending me email, so it is almost certainly her.
@ Ebony
Demerera is a commenter from 2011 and 2012, someone both Bulanik and Pay It Forward would remember.
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@ Wordynerdygirl
What you are implying?
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It is “derivative”, at best, and there are those who will find her out.
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@ Abagond
Could you be so good as to acknowledge the information (CVs, photographs, emails from third parties, telephone numbers, etc.) forwarded to you about my allegedly “imaginary” Polish friends?
These individuals are awaiting your call.
You can involve a Polish or Russian speaker from your side if you wish to get to the bottom of it in their own languages.
I sent you this information with their permission and in answer this same serious, personal attack made well over a year ago, and re-heated over and over.
The Polish individuals in questions thought it was a joke at first, but since they’ve seen how their existence has been used to ABUSE, they aren’t impressed, and certainly have no wish to comment on your blog.
However they don’t mind talking to you, if you would extend the courtesy.
On a general point, about repeated personal attacks that are shown to you and you agree are “personal” and “attacking” —
What are YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
What are YOU GOING TO RULE ABOUT IT?
Why don’t personal attacks, over and over, warrant warning?
Don’t you think they are serious….?
Do you like them? and enjoy them? need them? Do you condone them and allow them because of the blog-traffic they generate, or do you think there is a better way to handle it?
Just asking.
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Wordy asked Abagond whether there was any proof that “Demarara posting from a different country than Bulanik”!
Abagond said:
?
You mean I’d cross sea and land to write Abagond an email and contrive a completely different style of my own to do so?
My suspicions about Wordynerdygirl mount by the hour…
And nor would it be the first time that Wordy has assumed wrongly, in the worst way possible, and been made to look the fool by the truth.
Like Legion and my imaginary friends.
Or PIF and her plagiarism and lies.
I notice though, Worjy never says a thing when she is consistently proved wrong (often).
I am not sure if this is personal arrogance or simple White Entitlement, or a combo.
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@ Bulanik
I got the email but I am not calling anyone. I will delete Legion’s comment as a personal attack and, when I get a chance, all his comments on the India thread per his instructions.
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@ Legion: Your last comment deleted for making personal remarks.
More: I deleted your comments about Bulanik’s Polish friends. You are dragging in her private life to smear her. Not cool. I know you think they are imaginary, but you have no way to prove it, at least not on an English-only forum like this one. You will just have to let it go.
I will delete all your comments on the India thread per your instructions.
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@ Abagond
I didn’t ask you to call anyone.
Nor did I want you to have a detail from MY LIFE.
I sent that information to you because when I pointed it out to you at the FIRST INSTANCE, you ignored it and let it go on and on and on.
Like it was a joke and only right, turning it into some kind of Open Season on Bulanik.
I don’t want to know personal details of anyone here, and I want my private life, private. However, you are forcing this situation (perhaps for blog traffic, I can’t say I know!), and the outcome will not be pretty should you let your inconsistency and favouritism continue in this way.
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@ Abagond:
….but you have no way to prove it, at least not on an English-only forum like this one. You will just have to let it go.
Really? There was YES way to prove! Wtf are you talking about?
The whole point of sending you THE EVIDENCE of my living, breathing Polish friends was precisely because they are not “imaginary”, and to show that Legion — and the ones who riding on this band wagon — are talking out their backsides.
And, that this — is a created drama, malicious mischief — that you are condoning AND encouraging.
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“wordynerdygirl
Do you have proof that Demarara is posting from a different country than Bulanik? If not, why didn’t she post her own comment?”
Linda says,
Because Demerera got sick off all the in-fighting that occurs on this blog, when there are no white trolls to go after. She got caught up, got tired of it and left.
This blog has lost many good commenters because of this phenomenon.
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Even the not so good commenters will follow Demerera.
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?
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Kiwi,
BR is passionate… so he typically displays his “artistic temperament”
It’s good to be amused at times because many of these topics, in real life, are no joke and not funny.
There are some battles that are worth fighting and Da Jokah was one of them because online racists are waging battle online and are making their presence felt in how the narratives are being perceived and corrupted..that’s what happened with Trayvon Martin and now with Ferguson/Mike Brown.
These people have to be stopped, first and foremost.
BR, is like the uncle we all know (love/hate), who drinks and tells stories at the dinner table and gets mad at the “young punks” who he sees as not acting/ doing right — the 60s and 70s were really turbulent times and obviously meant a lot to him.
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@Kiwi
Yes, his diatribes are full of ad hominems. Looking for the next one. LOL.
@Linda
Yes, they were, but we experienced them differently.
@ wordynerdygirl, @bulanik,
Looking for to your guest posts.
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A battle is worth fighting for DEPENDING on where you are and what is happening in the world around you.
The circumstances of the 2 young men’s deaths and the aftermaths of their deaths, are the result of the most cruel kind of law enforcement.
But it’s not the only sharp and cruel end.
Linda is not saying it is “the only”.
Yet “what is truly important” and “worth fighting for” really depends on what touches you in your life, what you see, and what you believe the intersections and interconnections are.
Those who know it, feel it. And if it goes on one place, and is allowed, it will come again, elsewhere, maybe in another form.
It’s a question of what is prioritised, and what is seen as UN-interesting.
In the last month more than 200 black men, some no more than b0ys, drowned off the coast of Libya, in a boat that sunk on the way to Europe.
Where I am, the attitude to the incident was “well, it’s sad, but more of those poor bastards will keep coming, their countries are devastated….” conveniently forgetting that some of those that attempt that journey would have gladly stayed at home if their source of livelihoods hadn’t been taken away **... better to paint them as rats scrambling onto civilised shores instead.
Isn’t something like bullying on the rise, especially in schools, in fact, across the board? Jay Smooth made a point about how dangerous and destructive this kind of attack can be for those online:
(** example: industrialised fishing boats illegally over-fishing in Cape Verde’s waters, and stripping an island nation.
http://www.projectaware.org/blog/matchbox-media-collective/sep-23-11/sandgrains-crowdfunded-documentary-about-overfishing-cape-v )
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Above, wordy said I hadn’t read any of Orwell’s stuff.
Well, I didn’t have to do as I was told.
It’s possible, for someone brought up in a house that did not consume pork, that a book about Pig is repugnant, and not fondly recalled.
Of course, pigs aren’t the only animal featured in Animal Farm, and yes, everyone knows the anthropomorphology was just a literary device, but it didn’t do anything for me.
The dystopia of 1984, in my little life, was too much like what I knew, at a time of terrifying nightly power outtages, miners’ strikes and 3 day weeks.
As for Aspidistra: why care about a posh man’s choice to leave the artsy-fartsy to be among the Great Unwashed? I already had Immigrant England, so Orwell, more than 40 years ago, did not “transport” me from my drab world to some place I would’ve liked to be instead. That was left to Shakespeare.
Or irritating DH Lawrence and Virginia Woolf, or being absorbed by Thomas Hardy, and the very beautful James Baldwin.
So Wordy, you can wrap your Orwell in bacon and eat him.
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@ Bulanik
Look, doll….I know you are sore that I was not-responsive to your flirtations.
Hahahahaahaha!!!!
I wondered when your desperation would force you to bring out that devastating little hatchet on me. (Your disgusting and false charge of Orientalism in the India thread, signaled that there was no low to which you were not ready to descend to in your hollow defence of yourself and your wretched attacks on Pif and myself.)
Oh Bulanik, this is all terrible, shameful. I knew it would not be long before you brought up the ‘flirtation’.
Going way back, I always wanted to be as natural and honest on this blog as I could be. One reason was as an aid to relaxing or vegging as Linda mentioned. But the other reason was more serious: I knew or felt, I would have unpopular view points and I wanted people to trust where I was coming from if not necessarily like where I was coming from.
I felt like flirting with you and did-no regrets. Look, you were not unresponsive. It was a friendly exchange Bulanik, we got along. Any of the long time commenters are aware of how affectionate I can be.
What do you mean by “responsiveness”? you live in Ireland for God’s sake, the flirtation was just friendly affection.
Anyway, you really are something to try and embarrass me in this fashion, do you not feel you are losing your self respect in doing so? You’re going to the most extreme lengths to protect some image or something that you have, or believe you have, on a blog. Wow. (to each their own, though.)
The thing is, it will be hard for some people to see what’s true and what isn’t true, and you are banking on this. Also, Like Wordynerdygirl, I am not going to exhaustively post rebuttals and clarifications because who is that neurotic or has that much time?
Lastly, of course you were responsive. Your responsiveness culminated in you sending me your email via Abagond and asking that I contact you. It was a piece of good wisdom on my part that I never did so. Did my unresponsiveness bother you? 🙂
Bulanik, stop it, okay. Your fans will continue to be your fans. Don’t worry ’bout a thing.
———————————–
Abagond, please let this comment through/let my comment stand. As Wordy says this is about integrity. Further, you have allowed Bulanik to engage in attacks on my character in the India thread and here in this thread. Your integrity and simple basic decency demand that I be allowed to respond. This mess has already opened up you must allow the chips to fall where they may.
Abagond this is bad: your permitting Bulanik to engage in personal attacks and not allowing me to respond. My responses were pretty relaxed, a dissapointment for you and for her, I’m sure.
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*you’re permitting
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@ Bulanik:
and the outcome will not be pretty should you let your inconsistency and favouritism continue in this way.
WHA…!? Favoritism? He’s been favouring you for ages.
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@ Bulanik
my dove.
Could it be? Is she finally responding. Oh my heart is a flutter. Dearest, I shall be walking on air, now!
Hahahahaha!!!!:D
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Goodness gracious, that’s enough.
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Good Kiwi,
you’re pulling my leg! Princess Bulanik was banned!? Her Royal Highness? Abagond’s long time running favorite!? Holy freakin’ sh!t.
Abagond, you damn sob. I take some time off to cool down from you’re protection of her while she was sh!tting all over my good name. I come back to respond to the filth I know she would have plastered while I’m gone, and you ban her in the interim!? Damn you!
Goddammit!
Look, how about this?
How about you unban her just so we can all have a good laugh about the “flirtations” she brought up. I was totally looking forward to what she was going to say about her sending me her email.
—————————————————————–
Kidding aside:
Abagond, you won’t like this but here it is and I know no one else will say it (except maybe Pif) so, i’ll say it:
You shamefully protected that woman out of favoritism. No one needed to re-prove her dishonesty and charletanism, it was already established. You patronized every sensible person on this blog when you said “the whole thing will blow over.” (regarding Bulanik’s plagiarism). You allowed her to attack me and denied me my just responses to those attacks. Why Abagond? Because you “like” me less and you “liked” her more? That’s pathetic and it’s destructive to integrity, you’re own.
The polish friends were obvious fakes to anyone who read that thread that day. I wear a degree of shame too. I protected (I know that sounds cheesy and arrogant but it’s true) Bulanik that day by slowing the trap she put herself in by faking Polish friends and to her horror, realizing Eco was in fact Polish. She could not respond to anything that he put down in Polish, spare me the “English language blog” line. I and you and others helped Bulanik with her dishonesty.
I’m so happy that Pif knocked some damn sense into me. It would haunt me if Bulanik had been banned before I openly came out and agreed with Pif. Jorbia was right about you and your favoritism Abagond.
You allowed Kwamla to call me “Uncle Ruckus”. You allowed Bulanik to say I was practicing Orientalism. You know, very well, that it cuts to the quick when race is used by people of colour against other people of colour. If Kwamla had called me an a$$hole it would have been less insulting. And when I respond to them, you delete my comments. Not theirs, mine. In your words: “not cool”.
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*your own
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I said: You patronized every sensible person on this blog when you said “the whole thing will blow over.” (regarding Bulanik’s plagiarism).
@ Abagond
Integrity is not something that “blows over”, not ever. The fact is many of us extended the kindness to Bulanik that she and her fan, the “quite young” Ebonymonroe, mentioned in the gentleman thread. We all awkwardly dealt with the obvious lying of this individual because we were taken in by the charm, etc. But the real truth never goes away.
I could no longer stand to see the attacks against Pif. It was galling to see a cheap liar get indignant with Pif and with Eco, and I don’t even like Eco, he’s an a$$hole. She got the kindness she wanted but it wasn’t enough, she had to parade around with her indignant garbage. You’ll recall, I warned you of all this in an email early in the year; your response was incredibly dismissive.
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George, I’ll ask that you show the proper respect and refer to her as Princess Bulanik or Her Highness. I’m watching you buster!!!!!!!
*pounds fist on desk, glares menacingly at monitor*
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George said:
how the hell can you claim to be dyslexic if yer a plagiarist???
^ That is so basic, it escaped me. It escaped you too Abagond? There she is combing through sites, taking this and that, It was obvious she had no dyslexia ages ago, it was part of the Princess routine. How uncomfortable it was, for me, when she would reference it: beautiful underdog, overcoming difficulty because she’s so strong and wonderful.
Re: comment policy thread.
She owes people with disabilities an apology too. Wretched woman.
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George, we should have a care. I hesitated on my final sentence in my previous comment. I went ahead with it because I can justify my anger and dissappointment. But still, I should have a care and you should too.
Probably, not a good idea to continue in the vein you started with that adjective you chose.
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The full truth is actually more embarrassing.
We (many of us) went along with Bulanik and enabled her lying. Pif is the first to have said this and no one wants to cop to it because it’s so embarrassing and unflattering but it is true anyway. Abagond allowed the trickery to continue too.
So, yes, played to an extent but cooperated with as well to an extent. It’s easy to point a sole finger at Bulanik but too convenient. We [who went along with her pretense] need to look in the mirror too. I’m not including you in that group though George, you were never one of her enablers, sadly, I was.
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Legion
Nice to see you back. 🙂
I admit to being an enabler, even though I consciously questioned her dyslexia. I tend to try to see the best in people which is not going so well for me.
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By the way Sharina, I made some comments in the comment policy thread, some of them are addressed to you.
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This is so very sad.
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@Abagond
THIS is what is “not cool”:
painting me as someone who was “dragging” in her personal life. The “polish friends” situation on that thread was just clear as day. Don’t tell me and don’t plaster it for others that I’m the sort to drag in “personal life”. I’ve had it done to me on this blog and I would never do it to anyone else, it is too ugly a thing.
You are personally attacking me. Doing so won’t change that you turned your face from her lying and deception all this time. Keep calling me “not cool”, I’m sure it will do wonders for your own integrity, Mr. “I want to write for the ages”.
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@ Legion
I have a comment in comment policy for you. As to the exchange I know the one.
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@ George Ryder: Comment deleted for insulting language, moderated language and not using a person’s right name.
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@ Legion
See my comments on the Comment Policy thread
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For some time I have never said what I believed, and never believed what I said, and if I do sometimes happen to say what I think, I always hide it among so many lies that it is hard to recover it.
–Niccolo Machiavelli,
a letter to a Florentine contemporary in 1521
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