I like to draw women but unlike my brothers I can only draw at a cartoon level. To me I am mainly drawing black women but unless I give them natural hair or brown skin people will ask me, “Why do you like to draw white women?”
It is not just me: Aaron McGruder, who draws “The Boondocks”, does the very same thing: he depends mainly on skin colour and hair to make his characters “look black”.
In America people of colour are seen as “other”, so unless you mark them as such in cartoon drawings they come out looking white.
A good example of this is McGruder’s Jazmine Dubois:
She is light-skinned, but in the newspaper her skin looks white.
Having given up skin colour as a clear marker of her race McGruder is forced to give her a natural hairstyle – thus the huge Afro puffs pictured above. If he gave her a weave she would look white to Americans unfamiliar with her, as in this picture drawn by a fan:
Yet if you put the girl in that picture in a Japanese anime and give her a Japanese name she would seem Japanese to most people in Japan!
One girl, one drawing, three races depending on her setting and audience.
Astro Boy was one of the first anime characters. Before he appeared on American television in the 1960s he was in comic books aimed at Japanese schoolboys in the 1950s.
The huge eyes of anime characters go back to Astro Boy, who in turn got them from Max Fleischer’s Betty Boop:
Osamu Tezuka, the creator of Astro Boy, grew up watching Betty Boop, Mickey Mouse and Bambi – all of whom have big eyes.
Even though eyelid surgery was catching on in Japan just then, that had little to do with it: Tezuka loved big eyes because it made it easier to show a character’s feelings. By adding colour and shading to the eyes you could go even further. So it became a cornerstone of the anime style.
In America Tezuka, like McGruder, would have been forced to mark the race of his characters as people of colour. Since many Japanese have pale skin and many white Americans have black hair, the only sure marker between the two in a cartoon drawing is slanted eyes.
But by giving them big eyes Tezuka destroyed that marker. It would be like McGruder giving Jazmine a weave. But in Japan it did not matter: characters are assumed to be Japanese unless clearly marked as foreign. Just as in America they are assumed to be white unless their race is clearly marked.
To White Americans the Japanese are “people with slanted eyes”. But the Japanese do not think of themselves that way – any more than White Americans think of themselves as “people with blonde hair, blue eyes and big noses”, which is how they are stereotyped in anime. To the Japanese it is foreigners who look strange, not themselves.
See also:
- Why do the Japanese draw themselves as white?
- eyelid surgery
- blackface
- David Carradine – a good example of what is required of Asian characters in America. Make-up alone was not enough for Carradine to “seem Asian” enough – he also needed martial arts and “wisdom of the East” and a soft-spoken manner. Inotherwords, he had to fit certain stereotypes that White Americans have about Asians.
- exotic women
- Are black women ugly or is it racism that makes them seem so?
Ooooooh – very insightful! Thanks, Abagond!
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I admit, I kinda saw the japanese anime characters as white instead of japanese mainly because of the big eyes. You’re right, unless they’re clear markers that signify someone different, the default is assumed in a given society.
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Thank you for pointing this out.
I’m half Japanese, and I get really tired of explaining to white people why anime characters aren’t white unless specifically noted.
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Just a few things caught my wide-eye here.
1. “But in Japan it did not matter: characters are assumed to be Japanese unless clearly marked as foreign (ie other)”
2. “To White Americans the Japanese are “people with slanted eyes”. But the Japanese do not think of themselves that way”
3. “To the Japanese it is foreigners who look strange, not themselves”.
Personally this is the way self-percepton with regard to race, nationality etc works.
A given group will perceive themselves as ‘normal’. It is only when the group comes into contact with the ‘other’. Then those traits which would be ‘normal’ and have no significance then can become more significant.
This is what I would refer to as a constructed identity vis-a-vis the ‘other’.
So in the world of art, you will have ‘rules’ but also ‘contradictions’ that do not necessarily reflect ‘reality’.
Hmmm!!
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I should have added, that in this instance understanding the ‘rules’ (of art – in this case for Japanese comic books) then becomes ‘paramount’, so as to put things in their appropriate context.
And next, the socio-historical cultural context, for those who can be bothered to go that far.
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With regard to understanding the ‘rules’.
Though in saying that it is very hard to work out here in the UK
what people are being depicted, if any on records, flyers for parties etc
Here is one instance
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Interesting. It also begs the question, which ethnicities “OWN” which features? Often times people attempt to describe certain features as specific to a certain, and single ethnicity.
For instance, if you draw a character with full lips, many people will think of that as an sub-Saharan Black feature. But in reality, many Blacks don’t have full lips at all, and some Asians do.
That goes for broad noses too
And then, of course, not every Black model has full lips, and a broad nose either.
http://img96.imageshack.us/i/liyazo4.jpg/
Just about every “ethnic” feature that you care to mention has turned up in several places all over the world in a variety of phenotypical expressions. It makes it that much harder to represent any one ethnicity with single picture.
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calling black women ugly is ridiculous and not true
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KPP
why would white people bother asking about the colour, if any, of anime colour. Why would they care?
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Wow, we must’ve touched a nerve in that last Japan post, innit…
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Jazmine, has a white mother in the Cartoon so her features could easily be white. There are plenty of mixed race people who look white and if you saw them you would think they were from two white parents. So Jazmine is not a good example to use. There are plenty of other characters on the Boondox who have African features other then skin color and can be easily identified as black.
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With regard to:
It also begs the question, which ethnicities “OWN” which features?
This is a very valid point. However, I believe this is essentially related to the ‘consumers’ of society (ie the masses).
Wheras the artist probably – all things being equal – would probably break those ‘stereotypical phenotype features’ which a given society holds to be true.
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Source please?
I am aware of no study on Japanese complexion as compare to that of other Asian peoples, like the Koreans or Han Chinese.
I trust you’re not talking from your own extremely limited observations. Where did you get that data, if you please?
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With regard to:
“Japanese ar the lightest of the Asiatics in colour, close to whites, so they are not portraying anime falsely colour wise”.
This is an interesting point. I only know a little bit about these comic books. So I do not know if all the Japanese characters have ‘White’ skin – only on this point, or are they depicted with other shades of skin.
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Me, I was trained to see anime characters as white (often still do) from an early age back when they amercanized anime for a mainly US audience, presenting them in such a way to lessen any sort of foreigness. Such as general misinformation, giving the characters white/western names, changing Japanese place locations to American ones or not mentioning them at all, removing Japanese text, non-Japanese Asian characters used to represent all of Asia including the Japanese themselves, etc.
“”To White Americans the Japanese are “people with slanted eyes”. But the Japanese do not think of themselves that way – any more than White Americans think of themselves as “people with blonde hair, blue eyes and big noses”, which is how they are stereotyped in anime. To the Japanese it is foreigners who look strange, not themselves.””
This is something I often have to put up with many many white anime fans when it comes to characters who are neither Asian or white. Especially if the character is black–because in their minds the only way you can tell an anime character is black is if there are specific (often racist) markers which are always underlined with their own racism and often have to mean a black person cannot be beautiful, noble, intelligent, etc.
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quote
“King
Source please?
King, you only have to observe them
Juan, I have made mention of the possibility of certain changes for a western/US audience. This is possible, but the japanese are very light skinned for Asians
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@King:
Yes. For example, the Asians I know including relatives have been asked if they had eyelid surgery because their eyes are large and double-lidded. It’s almost as if others find it hard to believe that some Asians with “big eyes” exist naturally.
Here’s what I mean. I have found some Filipino actresses whose careers I have followed when they were child stars so I know they were born with these eyes.
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@ Alan
Who?
The 127,076,183 Japanese?
The 48,607,000 South Koreans,
The 23,818,753 North Koreans, or
The 1,324,655,000
(2008 population estimates, wiki)
My point is that there are LOT of people in those groups you are talking about. I Probably wouldn’t say that the Japanese were the most melanin free of the lot based on my own observation.
How many of those people have you actually seen?
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Sorry, my last figure was the Chines, of course
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@ leigh
Exactly, and it’s not always because they’re, “mixed with Spanish blood” which will be the very next thing to come up, I’m sure.
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@King:
One of my Korean friends comes from a family with no mixed background, and people constantly tell her she had eyelid surgery because her eyes are so huge. And when I mean, huge, I mean her eyes look as if it’s about to pop out of her head.
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Ha… I bet she has REALLY good vision too!
But clearly, some… even many, Asians have rather round eyes, and many non-Asians around the world have almond shaped eyes.
And it has nothing to do with “race mixing” either. These features do not belong to any one ethnicity. They turn up all over the place, but we usually miss them when we’re overly intent on making the usual generalizations.
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@King
But… but… overarching and incorrect generalizations make things easier for my brain and make me seem all-knowing and stuff. *sniff* Meany! xP
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Well, we wouldn’t want to deprive you of that!
Please, continue to generalize, you all-knowing colonizer!!!
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based on my observation japanese are indeed fair, fairer than Chinese generally. On the other hand, some Indonesians are very dark, relatively speaking
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@King:
Much better than mine. 😛
Country singer, Leann Rimes, and her almond shaped eyes.
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Jesus Christ and wtf?!!!
Is that Jazmine Dubois Rule 34 I spy up their on your blog, Abagond? 😀
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quote
“King
Source please?
King, you only have to observe them
[Now imagining hefty Aussie redneck with a /fosters can in hand, “observing” Japanese and other “asians” from his back porch in East Sheep Shag, New South Wales….]
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I’ve worked alonside japanese business people and troops, and Indonesian troops, including Kopassis
Austrlai is full of Chinese and Philipnos
I think I know these people to look at them
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[Returning to topic]
Oh dear.
Has anyone else noticed how Jaden Smith resembles Riley Freeman in the new Karate Kid movie…?
tumblr_l3qe7sT6ug1qbn1vmo1_400.jpg
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Yeah, I noticed the Riley Freeman resemblance. He’d be a sure hit to play Riley in the live-action movie.
In regards to Filipinos. They have, on average, 3.6% Spanish/white ancestry–not enough to classify them as mixed.
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Jaden Smith/ Riley Freeman:
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“I’ve worked alonside japanese business people and troops, and Indonesian troops, including Kopassis.”
So, take the number of people that you’ve inadvertently bumped into, and then compare that number with:
The 127,076,183 Japanese?
The 48,607,000 South Koreans,
The 23,818,753 North Koreans, or
The 1,324,655,000 Chinese
And you will soon discover why inferential statistics is a science and not a hobby.
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“Country singer, Leann Rimes, and her almond shaped eyes.” True!
So does Miley Cyrus, when she’s being an idiot.
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it’s not a matter of stats. I don’t need stats to notice the difference between people’s and neither to you
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Alan, who is lighter skinned, Japanese people, Korean people or northern Chinese?
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Kimg
where did you get this number for japan ese above. That figure is in relation to what?
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Personally, I still believe Alan has a validpoint about Japanese and ‘White’ or perhaps the adjective ‘porcelain’ skin, irrespective of whether, which of the Far East population/nation is lighter, and notwithstanding any variations in Japan itself as it applies to groups like Ainu etc vis-a-vis the portrayal of characters solely on the basis of skin in the comic books.
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It’s a 2009 population estimate number for the nation of Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
How can you be sure that the northern Chinese that you know are not “the exceptions to the rule?”
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Abagond,
When you are a Black artist who doesn’t work in the Primitive style, all your portrayals of Black people are seen to be white by Blacks. My son gets that even when he draws photographic images of Black women unless he colors them extremely dark. He often says that the natural color of Black people are a combination of various hues, there is no color in the crayon box to represent them.
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@ J, I’m not arguing that Japanese people are dark-skinned. Of course, like all people, Japanese come in a range of shades and are tanned when exposed to the sun.
All I’m pointing out to Alan is that statements about which Asians are the lightest and darkest (by nationality) are probably ill advised, especially based on casual contact. Clearly the differences in skin tone between Asians and Caucasians are not dramatic. I don’t think anybody thought that they were.
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How about the Koreas ethnically homogeneous claims?
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Cheers King,
I did understand your reasoning .
However, to be fair to Alan, I think he is picking up what society sees as the ‘stereotype’.
So Japan would be characterised by light skin or skin that approximates to ‘White’ with epicanthic folds.
This is why I suggested earlier with regard to your own point. Its the masses who would are more interested in the matter of ‘what ethnicity owns what phenotype(s)’ rather than the artist and the genre of art per se.
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Can we please not engage the need for derailment so the discussion can be of some actual worth, please? Really, they’re not that much worth it.
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I agree J, it’s usually the masses.
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@Hathor
Yeah yeah. Almost the same in writing too. It’s like the person/space you create is marked as white unless you can give them “clear” signals otherwise. Signals that are sometimes unflattering but usually limiting all the same.
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How come Barack Obama and Haley Barry aren’t uh… Negroid?
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Juan,
Are you a writer?
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King, sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Abagons’s post
quote
” My son gets that even when he draws photographic images of Black women unless he colors them extremely dark. He often says that the natural color of Black people are a combination of various hues, there is no color in the crayon box to represent them. ”
My point here was the black people themselves recognise full blood negro people as opposed to mixed race people. They may have thier own racial concienceness.
Hally Berry and Mr Obama ( whom i hoped would win the election ) are half white
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Tautology??
“Japanese are the lightest of the Asiatics in colour, close to whites, so they are not portraying anime falsely colour wise”.
=
I am talking about the actual japanese people, not art
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that is not a tautology. If i wasn’t right it would be a contradiction
I referred to the anime figures being of pale sking as an actual represenation of japanese. I also don’t deny it could be for commericla purposes re the eye shape
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Cheers for the clarification – even though I am not sure I fully understand it.
Anyhow that is what you get when you try to support what appears to be a valid point.
Anyhow back to the dialogue between King and yourself.
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@Hathor
Sadly no. ;_; Not even a technical writer (yet?).
I just do a lotta writing.
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This is what many white anime/manga fans need to realise that in anime/manga everybody is Japanese by default, and if somebody is another race it will be stated and will be given a sterotypical look. However that not always the case I have read some manga where an obvious Black character of African decent will have blue eyes, but they are also some who give them purple eyes so yeah.
If the anime is set somewhere else besides Japan where there is a lot of racial diversity then that is when characters look less super deformed and slightly realistic
For example
The anime Michiko to Hatchin is set in a Latin American country, it looks to be Brazil so there are a lot of black characters there
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Here is a better preview
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Cheers Aiyo,
Have to say I liked the musical beat accompanying the latter clip, very much akin to Drum n Bass.
However, and its probably my ignorance, so do forgive me here. I did not see many ‘Black’ characters
in the clip…Or I did not see them this way.
Perhaps it was because I was too busy bopping away to the music ha ha
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Hathor sez:
He often says that the natural color of Black people are a combination of various hues, there is no color in the crayon box to represent them.
Actually, that’s true in general. There is no one crayon or paint color which can accurately represent any skin tone. So-called white people are actually made up of various skin colors and any one human of any color is going to display considerable variation on their bodies.
At best, if you are painting, “flesh” tones give you a fair basis araound which to work, but that’s about it.
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Y’know, the same argument here could also be made about white people: “white” people are almost never the color they are portrayed in comics. Hardly anyone on the planet is really white.
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And again no-one is really ‘Black’, ‘yellow’ etc. These are all relative terms in and of itself, which groups have picked and/or have been chosen for them accordingly
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@J
LOL, well you have to watch the show or see some clips on youtube because they are everywhere in that anime.
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I noticed this for a while but imo they draw black people in older animes the very stereotypical black look. Very dark almost black skin, the big flat nose, big bright pink lips and their hair is either a Afro or its just bald. I was watching Dragon Ball (one of my fav animes growing up) and noticed that this minor black character was what I described looking like what I said above and he was also a bad guy as well. He died about fast after being introduced.
Idk I always thought that Anime had this weird stereotype for black people as well, maybe its different now with newer animes but I since Most of my favorite animes are gone I dont keep up with it anymore.
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@Sarah, I notcied that too, they look straight out of the old racist looney tunes and disney cartoons, but over the years they have gotten a little better.
Cowboy Bebop was the first anime I saw where I saw a black character look normal. It was an episode inspired by blaxplotion films
ColorQ has a list of dark skinned characters in anime
Positive
http://www.colorq.org/PetSins/2005/9/charas.aspx?x=ag
Villains
http://www.colorq.org/PetSins/2005/9/charas.aspx?x=av
Neutral
http://www.colorq.org/PetSins/2005/9/charas.aspx?x=an
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“”Idk I always thought that Anime had this weird stereotype for black people as well, maybe its different now with newer animes but I since Most of my favorite animes are gone I dont keep up with it anymore.””
Yes and no. Even in newer anime they tend to portray the same stereotypical roles/attributes as in most western media and in other anime they occupy non-stereotypical roles/attributes. Your mileage will vary.
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Great blog.
While growing up, I didn’t know what anime was even though I grew up watching cartoons on Nickelodeon, the channel that introduced me to anime shows like “Noozles, The Adventures of the Little Koala, Belle and Sebastian, Voltron,” and others.
I know on shows like Voltron and G-Force (a.k.a. Battle of the Planets a.k.a. Gatchaman) names where change to more Americanized names like Ken the Eagle is known as Ace Goodheart (lol) here in America.
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Moar Jazmine Rule 34 Abagond!
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Abagond, can I ask you something? (this may be a little off topic), but why do you watch the boondocks? Its a very racists show. And the creator Aaron McGruder hates black women and is an uncle tom. In his shows all the black characters are men. there is one biracial girl and a white wife of a black man. Everytime a black woman is protrayed on his show she is ignorant, whorish, crazy, is abused by some pimp. Or fat.
Not one respectable or likeable character that is a black woman ever appears on his show. I personally think there is no difference in him and white supremacists. I am 19 and old enough to watch the show, but I still cringe at alot of the episodes, and the potrayal of alot of the characters. I also have younger siblings who sneak at night and watch it as well.
can you write a post on why you watch the boondocks?
and here is where i got the info that Aaron McGruder is a racists and hates black women
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There’s not one likeable character in The Boondocks, period. McGruder exagerates EVERYBODY. EVERYBODFY is a character, white or black, male or female. This is a comedy comic, ferchrissakes!
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Oh, and that blog you linked us to? That’s not “information”: that’s an opinion.
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Everytime a black woman is protrayed on his show she is ignorant, whorish, crazy, is abused by some pimp. Or fat.
I’ve never watched the show but ..Shame
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Never denied any of what you wrote, Abagond. I even stated it many times — that unless stated otherwise, the characters are Japanese. It’s just that when I added that most of the characters still look white regardless, or merely added another aspect, a FACTUAL aspect of the whole issue(like the whole blonde hair, plastic surgery thing that the Japanese undertake in or how the Japanese are the only group of people that depict themselves ambiguously both racially and sexually when this wasn’t the case prior to exposure from Western countries), I was either ignored or written off by the so-called “enlightened” crowd as a “self-serving-Anglo-racist-who-thinks-Japs-are-unoriginal.” I still stand behind the idea that the Japanese subjecting themselves to the Western ideals of race influences and plays out in their own native culture, the anime/manga world being one of them.
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Interesting… but Blacks are so dynamic its difficult to capture us and say we look like this or that. I mean if you got one drop of black blood. You are Black…which is kinda weird when you think about it. But anyways yes America is color struck …and they just need to get over it and look at people for their character.
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It’s seems that KeyserSoze likes to project his own issues on the Japanese. What are white features ? I can cosplay as alot of anime characters and look like some of these characters. I’m not white. You’re part of the reason why own complaints are taken seriously. They already know that they’re Japanese. Most blacks can’t ever portay themselves with any diversity and mainly only want to stick to two genres. 99% of black cimena is In the hood or a medicore relationship drama/comdey with GAWD thrown in. I wish they would make cartoons with black characters that had a lot of diversty. Pink, purple, blue blonde hair and with all types of skin colors that doesn’t have like rap or R&B. Have you ever seen Static Shock ? Almost every single black had dark brown skin and black hair. It was boring to look at and most of the characters ended up looking the same. It seems that Black/White Americans are too obsessed with race and belonging.
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Its quite scary that we mark people with stereotypes I really hope that people in this world will accept everyone no matter what they are…
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Why write “giving Jasmine a weave”? Mixed girls, like Jasmine are more prone to straightening their hair. I’m mixed, I wear my own natural hair, straight, curly and wavy. It’s not weave.
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