The perpetual foreigner stereotype in America is applied mainly to Asian Americans. No matter how long they or their families have lived in the country, they are still not seen as True Americans, they are still seen as foreigners. That is why people are surprised at how good their English is and ask them, “Where are you really from?” – where New Jersey does not count as an answer.
Please note: Asians born in America speak perfect English with an American accent. For most of them America is the only country they know. It is their country too. They are every bit as American as white people.
The girl pictured in the Virgin ad that says “Dump Your Pen Friend” is not from Japan or anywhere in Asia: she is American – at an American barbecue, no less. If that surprised you, then you were applying the perpetual foreigner stereotype to her, as did Virgin.
This is not some small point.
For example, General John DeWitt, in charge of defending the western states during the Second World War, said this:
A Jap’s a Jap … The Japanese race is an enemy race … It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese… we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map.
And so Japanese Americans, despite being native-born citizens charged with no crime, lost everything they had and were sent to live in prison camps during the war. Even the Supreme Court thought their race mattered more than their citizenship.
Japanese Americans have been in America longer than most Italian, Polish and Jewish Americans. So, if anything, they should be seen as less foreign, but they are not.
Another example: Vincent Chin, a Chinese American engineer, had his brains beat in and was killed by two white men in Detroit in 1982. One of them had been laid off by Chrysler and blamed Japan. But Chin was not Japanese. He was not even Chinese: he was American! But despite that neither white man served any time in prison: they got off with a fine of $3,000 and three years’ probation. The judge said of Chin’s killers: “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail.”
Two ideas underlie the perpetual foreigner stereotype:
- America belongs to white people.
- Race and culture are pretty much the same thing.
Race, how you look on the outside, is seen as a good sign of how you are on the inside.
In America the stereotype applies mainly to Asian Americans, but lately, since 9/11, Muslim Americans are increasingly seen in this light too, so much so that their citizenship does not always grant them the protection and rights that it should.
The stereotype is assumed by those who call Obama a secret Muslim. Colin Powell made the excellent point that even if Obama were Muslim, so what? Plenty of Americans are Muslims, many have even fought and died for the country. If they are not True Americans, no one is.
See also:
- stereotype
- In memoriam: Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
- growing up Asian American
- The stereotype has been applied to blacks in France and China:
- black people as monkeys
I’m a first-generation Canadian born Filipina. I have been told time and time again that I speak English quite well with virtually no accent. I’m assuming these people meant Asian accent. Heh, it does become rather annoying.
Also, not too long ago, there was a “Get-to-know your co-worker” quiz at my work. This quiz was supposed to help co-workers get to know know each other better, build trust, and communicate better. There was this question: Who was born in another country? Guess what? Every single white co-worker, except for the handful of visible minorities, came up to me and asked me where I was born. And the thing is, the ones not born in Canada were originally from Scotland and Italy. No one questioned them because they were white.
They had a ‘Chinese Head Tax’ here in Canada to deter immigration from China. They had no qualms using Chinese labour for building the railroads though! They made it prohibitive for Chinese workers to bring their spouses over for example. They charged fifty dollars per head initially in the 1880s’ up to five-hundred( a small fortune) dollars in the 1920s’, when Chinese immigration was stopped period. For some reason this did not apply to South Asians or Japanese although informal methods were probably used to keep out or curb immigration from those countries.(my Canadian history is somewhat rusty).
Abagond:
‘Please note: Asians born in America speak perfect English with an American accent. For most of them America is the only country they know. It is their country too. They are every bit as American as white people’.
If someone speaks with the same accent as you do why would you questions their origins? The underlying message is as Abagond details in his article, you are not really American, only whites are American irregardless of your family’s tenure in this country. There are similarities to this type of thinking in Canada also.
And further note how the Japanese-Americans were put in internment camps, oh excuse me, “relocation centers” during WW2 as they were seen as the enemy, not so much the Germans and the Italians during that time. They were also the enemy, but were obviously not seen as much of a threat.
I didn’t know about Vincent Chin, that was before I was even born. I read the wiki page on him and all I can say is wow! It’s as if his life wasn’t worth anything. Good looking guy with a promising future just gone like that. The way they went about showed how little they thought about consequences. And what his mother said is undeniably true.
“What kind of law is this? What kind of justice? This happened because my son is Chinese. If two Chinese killed a white person, they must go to jail, maybe for their whole lives… Something is wrong with this country.”
Honestly, those two men probably wouldn’t even live to see jail if it had been so.
@Herneith:
Please correct me if I’m mistaken as my Canadian history is also rusty, but when the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) was completed, there were NO Chinese railroad workers present during the official ceremonial driving of last spike photo.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/LastSpike_Craigellachie_BC_Canada.jpg
Regarding Vincent Chin, the murderers virtually got off scot-free. The three years probation and the $3,000 fine is a slap in the face imho.
@leigh204
‘Please correct me if I’m mistaken as my Canadian history is also rusty, but when the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) was completed, there were NO Chinese railroad workers present during the official ceremonial driving of last spike photo’.
The fact that they imposed this ‘head’ tax on the Chinese workers speaks to this. From their treatment of the Chinese worker(I believe many died building the railroad), they were viewed as less than human so would not warrant any recognition whatever their efforts. Besides, they were probably viewed as being fortunate in being in the country to start. Ever hear of they propaganda slogan ‘Yellow Peril’? This was rampant during that part of Canadian history. The trickle down effects of that racism can be felt today when someone asks you where you’re from despite having a Canadian accent and being born and bred here.
Japanese Americans have been in America longer than most Italian, Polish and Jewish Americans. So, if anything, they should be seen as less foreign, but they are not.
The ironic part is Japan doe the same thing to their foreigners. Koreans have been their for generations and they will never be seen as real Japanese. Nor would you or I if moved there.
Btw, While we put Japanese in internment camps they tortured American soldiers and used them in medical experiments, including biological warfare tests and dissections.
And yes, German Americans were interned: http://www.foitimes.com/
Not Really:
The Japanese Americans who were put in the prison camps WERE NOT FOREIGNERS! THEY WERE AMERICANS!!!!!!!
Your comment seems to assume they were foreigners. You are commenting on a post about a stereotype while using that very same stereotype.
That is what is ironic.
“You are not getting this: the Japanese Americans who were put in the prison camps WERE NOT FOREIGNERS! THEY WERE AMERICANS!!!!!!!”
SO WERE THE GERMAN AMERICANS!!! Yet no one cares, and few even know about it.
You are commenting on a post about a stereotype while using that very same stereotype.
Nope, I brought it up to give a parallel; America is not unique. It’s not uniquely xenophobic – it’s not uniquely prejudice, as much as you’d like to think it is.
Who cares if it is unique? It is still wrong.
And whatever point you were trying to make, your comment still assumed that Japanese Americans are foreigners:
“The ironic part is Japan doe the same thing to their foreigners. Koreans have been their for generations and they will never be seen as real Japanese. Nor would you or I if moved there.”
Your style of moral reasoning is used by whites to also excuse the slave trade and racism.
Your style of moral reasoning is common among whites, who use it to excuse the slave trade and racism.
Who cares if it is unique? It is still wrong.
You don’t think that Japanese Americans don’t take the superiority complex from Japan over here? Would you presume to think that most Asian Americans feel blacks are equal to them?
Please let me know what Asian Americans have done to help the black community.
@Not Really:
“The ironic part is Japan doe the same thing to their foreigners. Koreans have been their for generations and they will never be seen as real Japanese. Nor would you or I if moved there.”
(This is about the Japanese in Japan; not Americans of Japanese heritage. I will agree with you that the Koreans have been in Japan for generations and are not considered Japanese. However, the same thing applies with Okinawans.)
“Btw, While we put Japanese in internment camps they tortured American soldiers and used them in medical experiments, including biological warfare tests and dissections.”
(Again, you’re referring to the Japanese from Japan.)
“And yes, German Americans were interned: http://www.foitimes.com/”
(Of course, they were interned and so were the Italian-Americans. I never stated that they weren’t interned, BUT the overwhelming majority were Japanese-Americans.)
Sidenote:
Hey abagond. Please tell me how you italicize your quotes on here. Thank you in advance.
@Not Really:
German American are the largest group in America of European descent. Do names like Eisenhower, Pershing, Hoover, Babe Ruth, Bush Roosevelt, Astor, Chrysler, Heinz, Hershey, Rockefeller, Trump, Westinghouse., Anheuser, Nimitz, etc. Why were ‘nt these people and the millions of other German-Americans sent to internment camps? Why were these people chosen out of millions? If they were interned due to the fact they were of German descent, then every other person of German descent would have been also. Hell, Eisenhower and Rockefeller would have been the first ones. That’s not to say none were interned, but yet they saw fit to intern hundreds of thousands of Japanese-Americans. There is a discrepancy here in regards to numbers. As Abagond states most of the Japanese interned were American-born, some several generations American. This is a classic example of it ‘happened to us to!’ arguement to divert the focus from the topic at hand which is why Asians born and bred in the U.S. are seen as foreigners still. The examples given are used to illustrates this. Two wrongs do not make a right, however, that is not what is being discussed.
@Herneith:
“The fact that they imposed this ‘head’ tax on the Chinese workers speaks to this. From their treatment of the Chinese worker(I believe many died building the railroad), they were viewed as less than human so would not warrant any recognition whatever their efforts. Besides, they were probably viewed as being fortunate in being in the country to start. Ever hear of they propaganda slogan ‘Yellow Peril’? This was rampant during that part of Canadian history. The trickle down effects of that racism can be felt today when someone asks you where you’re from despite having a Canadian accent and being born and bred here.”
(Considering there were many Chinese labourers coming into the country at the time, “Yellow Peril” evoked negative images of being sickly/jaundiced and something that posed as a threat.) It’s no wonder this propaganda slogan worked quite well in limiting Chinese immigration.)
Leigh:
To get italics you put <em> where you want the italics to begin and </em> where you want them to end.
Even though Chin’s killers had beat him to death based merely on his race – and just a few days before his wedding – the judge said: “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail.”
White life here is being held to be way more valuable than Asian life.
Not Really:
So what if the Japanese look down on me? It still does not excuse what was done to them BY WHITE PEOPLE.
The law is SUPPOSED TO protect everyone EQUALLY. You may have no trouble excusing it when it does not, but I do.
So while you try to make excuses for this sort of stuff, try to make it seem not so bad, to me it is extremely troubling.
Just because someone, somewhere has done the same sort of evil, terrible things that white Americans have done DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT OR ANY BETTER. You may draw comfort from that fact, but I do not.
Whatever can be done to anyone in the name of white racism can be done to me. I am on the wrong side of the fence: you are not. So your arguments do not have the same effect on me that they have on you.
When the Jews were being sent to be gassed by the Germans, I doubt they drew much comfort from the fact that the Turks had killed over a million Armenians.
@abagond:
Leigh Says:
To get italics you put where you want the italics to begin and where you want them to end.
I did it! Yay me! Oh, thank you! I appreciate your help!
Oopsie! I did it incorrectly! lol!
During the war, the Japanese-Americans deemed disloyal to the US were “voluntarily” deported to Japan. Many of them didn’t want to go there as they knew no other life than what was in America. Ironically, the Japanese thought the Japanese-Americans were more American than Japanese.
So what if the Japanese look down on me? It still does not excuse what was done to them BY WHITE PEOPLE.
The law is SUPPOSED TO protect everyone EQUALLY. You may have no trouble excusing it when it does not, but I do.
In this case everyone’s right were violated: The Japanese Americans, The German Americans, and the Italian Americans. Of course, more Japanese were sent to interment camps because they were such a tiny percentage of the population. Imagine trying to put millions of German and Italian Americans into camps during the middle of the war. It would have taken massive coordination. No doubt, Japan was seen as more of a threat because they directly attacked us.
My point to you about defending Asian Americans is this: Where is
the reciprocity? I don’t see Asians sticking up for black rights; I don’t seem that the various marches; I don’t see them standing up and demanding equal rights for blacks. Most Asian American I’ve known have views of blacks that are quite similar to many whites.
“The fact that they imposed this ‘head’ tax on the Chinese workers speaks to this. From their treatment of the Chinese worker(I believe many died building the railroad), they were viewed as less than human so would not warrant any recognition whatever their efforts.
The irish were treated no better when they came to this country. “No Irish need apply signs” were common in the 19th century. In the south the Irish were seen as less valuable than slaves and they worked at jobs that lead to high mortality rates. For it was better for a free Irishman to die than a slave that was worth money. Irish catholics were targeted by the Second Klan as well in the 1920′s.
Even though Chin’s killers had beat him to death based merely on his race – and just a few days before his wedding – the judge said: “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail.”
Reminds me of Derrion Albert.
Not Really,
The point you are missing is that most of the Germans who were interred were not born Americans. They were foreign-born Americans or Germans and their American-born children. That is a distinction.
Germans who had been here for generations were already integrated into American society and were left in peace. Whereas people of Japanese ancestry who had been here for generations and had no ties whatsoever to Japan were interred.
I am a foreign-born American with (obviously) split loyalties. So I can understand the idea that foreign-born persons may be more of a threat to national security than those who are born and bred here. But if someone is born and raised here it is a different story. That is what makes the Japanese internment so horrible.
My boss (Indonesian born and raised in California) used to complain about the “perpetual foreigner stereotype”. It’s really true.
I have the same problem in Germany. Even though I spoke German with a German accent, dressed like a German, have a German husband, worked for a German company, have a German last name, etc. I was still constantly asked where I’m from. Um… Germany? When I’d answer that they’d always respond with, “No, I mean ORIGINALLY.” Um… Germany?
There’s a Turkish comedian who had this topic as part of his stand-up routine. He’s 3rd-generation German but is constantly asked where he’s from. It goes something like this:
Wow! Your’ German is really great. You don’t even have an accent. Where are you from?
(Names a German city)
No, I mean, where are you REALLY from.
(Names a German town)
No, I mean, where are you REALLy from.
(States his parents address in the town)
No, you don’t understand! Where are you from ORIGINALLY?
Oh, of course. Why didn’t you say so? (Names the German hospital where he was born, including the ward and room number.)
I crack up laughing whenever I hear that one. It’s a classic.
@Not Really Says:
‘The Irish were treated no better when they came to this country. “No Irish need apply sign’s” were common in the 19th century. In the south the Irish were seen as less valuable than slaves and they worked at jobs that lead to high mortality rates. For it was better for a free Irishman to die than a slave that was worth money. Irish catholics were targeted by the Second Klan as well in the 1920’’s.
Be that as it may, this is not what the topic at hand is about. I think everyone is in agreement that atrocities have occurred throughout history. What is being discussed here is the perceptions of native born and bred Asians being perceived as ‘foreigners’. The examples being used by Abagond are used to illustrate the point. This topic is not about what group did such and such to another group per se. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of history, knows at least some of this. You are hijacking this topic with the generic white arguement ‘but that happened to us to!’. You are impeding the readers in their quest for knowledge based on lived experienced which is just as valid a source of information as any out there! Perhaps you should go to the suggestions segment of this blog and ask Abagond to write an article about historical atrocities(if he hasn’t already?). In particular Irish and Germans persecution during wartime or any other times in history. In the meantime, you are hindering the topic at hand which is; ‘Why Asians are Perceived as Perpetual Strangers’. Thank You.
This article and the people commenting shows that although most of your readers are concerned with issues of racism affecting the African dispora, only a handful in contrast are concerned with issues of racism affecting other people of colour who are not African.
It may read as people are only concerned with issues that they perceive to relate directly to them but not to issues that affect other people even though these problems are shared by all (including whites) and nothing is going to improve if everyone just sticks to their own little group and care nothing about everyone else.
Such divisions have been invented by racism and whiteness, of which everyone here seems to be superficially against but strangely enough, many seem to be buying into this white branding of division with little questioning.
my school has so many international students from China (and South Korea too i think…), that i wouldnt be surprised if some who were born and raised in America got treated like or mistaken for one of the foreign students.
@alwaysright101:
Oh, gosh. This reminded me of my first day in hs as I was a new student there. One teacher mistook me for one of the international students from China and Japan. She spoke to me very slowly and made hand gestures, “You…look…lost. Please…follow…me. I…will…help…you!” I told the teacher it was okay, and that I’ll find my way around. She was amazed that I spoke English, and she asked me where I was born. I just told her I was born here. And did she ever turn beet red.
@leigh204:
My grandmother had a friend of Japanese descent just at the onset of WWII. This man was at least 2 generations from Japan. He could not speak any Japanese except the requisite ‘Hello and Goodbye’ literally.
Back in those days, the people of colour ‘stuck’ together as there was so few of them. You didn’t have the racialized hierarchy and it’s intendant divisions that you have today.
Well, this man came to my grandmother crying. Apparently, representatives from the Canadian Government came to him and asked him to spy on Japan. Needless to say, this man was scared witless. Number one, he was 6’3, and two, he couldn’t speak Japanese to save his life! They wanted to parachute him into Japan whereby he would proceed on his merry way and start spying. Of course the Japanese would have noticed him right away and opening his mouth would have confirmed their suspicions. You see, the Japanese would have seen him for what he was, which was a North American who happened to be of Japanese descent, for the most part all ties severed with Japan.
Funny, his own country didn’t view him as such. He was perceived as a foreigner, as other. Of course they threatened him with imprisonment or relocation. I guess he was supposed to learn Japanese by osmosis! Despite being unable to speak Japanese and being bigger and taller than most of the Japanese at the time, they approached him with this proposition.
Anyhow he ended up changing his name and passing for Chinese! He disappeared into one the the Chinese communities in the States. My grandmother never saw him again. Since Asians are perceived as all looking alike to most whites at the time, (this may have been one time where racism served a purpose!) this was possible. He wasn’t really Canadian was he? At least according to his own government.
There was alittle known incident against Sikhs in 1914 the ‘Komagata Maru incident’ in which Punjabi Indians were turned away in Vancouver. whilst trying to immigrate to Canada When they returned to India they were met by the British naval ships. Consequently, 20 people were massacred in a ‘riot’ that ensued.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incident.
These histories whether personal or documented are not widely disseminated into society at large. They should be as they constitute a link in a chain of such racism against Asians which is still felt today albeit in a covert manner such as ‘The Perpetual Foreigner’.
Irish Americans would make a great post, especially since they started out in America as being seen as lesser creatures (made clear by Not Really’s comment) but in time became full whites in good standing.
But, as Herneith pointed out, that is off-topic here.
Therese said:
“nothing is going to improve if everyone just sticks to their own little group and care nothing about everyone else.”
I agree. Almost from square one, racism has been used in America to divide people and keep them weak, particularly the working class and people of colour.
If you notice, Not Really tried to play down racism at every turn except for one time: in noticing the divisions between blacks and Asians. Why is that?
Sure there are Asians who kiss up to whites and look down on blacks. But there are black people like that too, you know. It is one of the main ways racism is used to divide people: throw a few bones to the sell-outs to buy their loyalty. It was how the British ruled a fourth of mankind.
In the lifetime of most people reading this, or at least that of their children, whites are going to become a minority in America. If people of colour remain divided like they are, then a huge, huge opportunity is going to be lost.
If people of color remain divided like they are, then a huge, huge opportunity is going to be lost.
Hear, hear! I am all for people of color uniting to fight racial prejudice.
And thanks for the tip about italics.
I guess I’m kind of in a unique position because I take crap aimed at pretty much every race or ethnic group out there. Ah, the joys of being an “incognegro” (love that word, by the way). Although I guess it’s not totally off-base because I have Cherokee, Japanese, African, English, German, and Czech blood in me. So I guess every epithet applies.
Leigh, I had a woman ask me last week if I was from the Philippines and if I “liked it here, in America”.
She spoke to me very slowly and made hand gestures, “You…look…lost. Please…follow…me. I…will…help…you!”
LOL!
Yeah, Americans speak slowly as if I am an idiot and the Germans speak REALLY LOUD as if I am deaf.
Although I must admit it’s good for a laugh to be at a Bavarian fest and have some drunk German guy stumble over and offer to teach me the disco-fox while pulling out every last bit of tourist-Spanish he can dig up and gush about how much he loved Brazil.
Black&German Says:
I guess I’m kind of in a unique position because I take crap aimed at pretty much every race or ethnic group out there. Ah, the joys of being an “incognegro” (love that word, by the way). Although I guess it’s not totally off-base because I have Cherokee, Japanese, African, English, German, and Czech blood in me. So I guess every epithet applies.
Damn and I thought I was mixed.
Here’s my genetic make up:
Black part – Jamaican, Haitian and Dominican.
White Part – English, Spanish and French.
Native American – I don’t really know.
East Asian – Again I don’t really know. Perhaps there isn’t any.
Funny thing is I don’t look mixed at all. Probably because I’m mostly black.
Vindicator:
The Czech part probably has Roma in there. But saying, “Do you have Gypsy blood?” to a Czech is fighting words, so I’ve never asked.
The Japanese ancestor is funny because we had picture of him and thought he was Oriental (Turkish). But then my father (who has genealogy as a hobby) dug up documentation and was like, “What kind of weird-ass name is that?” LOL! We still don’t know what in the world a Japanese guy was doing in South Carolina. We’re speculating it had something to do with construction. Railroads, maybe?
I think most people who appear to be ‘racially ambiguous’ are asked where they are from at some point or are aked on a constant basis. This can prove enervating for whites especially due to their need to pigeonhole people. I feel that this will influence how they will subsquently treat you. That joke provided by Black&German is an illustration of this!
In gerneral, people will ask racialized people where you’re from up until the umpteenth generation, progressively becoming more exasperated if you did-not just ‘get off the boat’. Why not come out and ask you what your background is. The person can choose whether or not to answer. I think in effect that they are pointing out your ‘foreignness’ at least in their perception.
I get asked constantly “where are you from?”. If I’m in a particularly ornery mood, I will go back to the umpteenth generation, which baffles many. Otherwise I just tell them I’m from my mother. I also get asked which island are you from.(there is a large West Indian population here in Toronto). I tell them ‘Centre Island’ which is a small island just off the Toronto Harbourfront. I constantly get asked as to where my accent is from. This is particularly insulting as I have a distinct Canadian accent punctuated with the proverbial ‘eh s’. In reality, those who ask me about my ‘accent’ are really asking about my origins but for some unknown, reason are afraid to just come out and say so.
I get the where are you from from other blacks also. I think they ask me this in order to find commonality in a possibly shared cultural background for, as I said before, there is a large West Indian population here. There is a large African diaspora here period. They appear to be genuinely interested when I tell them of my background for the most part as do other People of Colour. Asians and other people of colour can also tell similar tales. I have gotten sick and tired of this so in effect I have stop engaging in ‘information session’, I am not being compensated financially for this ‘teaching moment’.
People, if some one asks you where your from say ‘I am from my mother have a nice day” end of conversation. I am speaking of strangers or semi-acquaintances approaching you of course. For some bizarre reason they feel free to approach you unsolicited and ask you these questions. They are designed to put you in your place as an outsider or time server in your own country.
@Herneith:
Thanks for the story! The gov’t officals weren’t thinkers, were they? Your grandmother’s Japanese-Canadian friend was 6’3…oh yeah, that’ll work. He might as well have been Godzilla. Not to mention, he didn’t speak so much as a lick of Japanese. Let’s see. Why not throw a Westernized Asian to spy for us because he looks like them, and hopefully, the enemy will give us the info we need.
*rolls eyes*
@abagond (#31) says: If you notice, Not Really tried to play down racism at every turn except for one time: in noticing the divisions between blacks and Asians. Why is that?
White society has designated the minority myth with Asians and the stoopid myth with Africans – which is entirely untrue and ignores Asians who are struggling and dismisses Africans who are geniuses.
The result is, some Asians and Africans believe in this model minority myth. Asians think they’re better… even though they’re really not. Africans think even Asians are against them, even though it is the lies spread by whiteness.
Then there is the myth of sexuality and sportsmanship. Anyone who has not heard of the asexual unsporty Asian has been stuck in some other dimension. Anyone who has not heard of the hypersexual sports freak African has also been in lalaland.
Even the women have been subjected to comparisons and not favorably either. The Asian female is seen as submissive and shapeless whilst the African female is supposed to be sassy and curvaceous – what about all the women who do not fit these stereotypes? There is the boyish Asian unwoman and the loud hypersexual African unwoman both completely untrue and harmful to all people’s views of a healthy individual body condition/shape.
The Asian and the African have been held by whiteness as abnormal and as opposite to each other to make whiteness seem normal and safe. Asians and Africans who fall for this trap are hurting both themselves and eachother. They should be working together not against eachother.
@Therese:
Amen! I couldn’t have put it better myself.
The Asian and the African have been held by whiteness as abnormal and as opposite to each other to make whiteness seem normal and safe.
Have you ever noticed how when white people are in a large group without any minorities present it doesn’t seem weird to them? They don’t even notice. But if they are in a large group without any other white people present it makes them uncomfortable?
It’s because white = normal. White people see themselves as raceless.
It’s funny because if my husband and I walk into a large gathering full of white people my thought is “Geez. Everybody here is white.” (it seems unnatural to me and I wonder why that is so) but if I mention it to my husband he’s like “Huh? I hadn’t noticed.” (it seems natural to him)
Macon had an interesting entry on that phenomenon.
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/09/see-no-problem-with-being-surrounded-by.html
The Asian and the African have been held by whiteness as abnormal and as opposite to each other to make whiteness seem normal and safe.
Have you ever noticed how when white people are in a large group without any minorities present it doesn’t seem weird to them? They don’t even notice. But if they are in a large group without any other white people present it makes them uncomfortable?
It’s because white = normal. White people see themselves as raceless.
It’s funny because if my husband and I walk into a large gathering full of white people my thought is “Geez. Everybody here is white.” (it seems unnatural to me and I wonder why that is so) but if I mention it to my husband he’s like “Huh? I hadn’t noticed.” (it seems natural to him)
Macon had an interesting entry on that phenomenon.
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/09/see-no-problem-with-being-surrounded-by.html
The model minority stereotype probably applies better to West Indians and African immigrants in America than to Asians as a whole, but you do not hear about that. Nor, on the other hand, do you hear about Laotians and Cambodians in America and how so many of them are poor and drop out of high school.
The model minority thing, to the degree that it has any truth, is not an Asian thing but an immigrant thing and immigrants of a certain kind at that. It has little to do with race. But it is twisted to serve the ends of white people to get them off the hook and, as a sort of bonus, it helps to divide blacks from Asians.
No one in Japan would notice a tall Japanese Canadian because all Asians look alike
@abagond says: The model minority stereotype probably applies better to West Indians and African immigrants in America than to Asians as a whole, but you do not hear about that. Nor, on the other hand, do you hear about Laotians and Cambodians in America and how so many of them are poor and drop out of high school.
Of course I’d be buying into another stereotype if I were to jump onto this enthusiastically as I was about to but what you say is true in more than just a few cases.
West Indies + African immigrants = seriously, I have met a few and read about a lot who are computer experts… how zat for some competition for that mythical Asian geek?
CN Le has written about the model minority myth in regards to Asians particularly SE Asians The Model Minority Image.
@abagond:
Yes, and all Asians speak the language of the countries their families originally came from despite many being in North America for generations. It’s genetic I tell you….not!
I deleted a comment from “Johnny”, who may have been Igor. In any case, it was a right-wing plagiarizer who cut and pasted Racial Myth #1 from this Free Republic article:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/762059/posts
It argues that about half of all people sent to internment camps in America during the Second World War were white, that the internment of Japanese Americans had nothing to do with race.
Deleted as plagiarism.
abagond, why don’t you just give in and admit you’re a racist and call it a day. Whites can’t do anything right in your eyes. In your eyes, We’re all evil. We all think and act the same way. You’re pathetic and so is this blog and most of the anti-white conspiracy theory yahoos. Hopefully someday you will learn to get the hatred out of your heart. However, at this time you’re a very sad, myopic and mean-spirited person.
In your eyes, white people have to be held up to higher moral accountability. That’s because, in the eyes of the racist on this blog, the civilizational and moral superiority of whites is a given.
That’s why There will be no examination by you of the racial discrimination that exists under India’s caste system, nor of the virulent anti-Semitism that prevails throughout the Arab Middle East. Intense scrutiny will not be brought to the realities of Congo, Burundi and Rwanda, where tribal hatred between the Hutu and Tutsi has led to mass genocide, involving the murder of millions of people, in the last decade. Nor will “racism” be found in Zimbabwe, where President Robert Mugabe conducts a war against white farmers because they happen to be white.
Did you hear about Lou Jing in China. Why don’t you ever talk about that?
@Rose – this is not about white people, it is about the system set up by whiteness called racism. Firstly, do you know if Abagond is white (pointing out the wrongs of white people does not make a white person less white) or black (being pro-black does not make one black if they are not born so) or some other poc (because ya know, the world actually isn’t white and black only)? Unless he is white he does not have the backing of the institution to be racist (even though he would disagree with this definition of racism). Secondly, he has already written about Lou Jing if you had bothered to look under “New Stuff”.
Rose:
1. At least I express myself in my own words and do not cut and paste my thoughts from websites like you do. That last paragraph comes from Front Page Magazine.
2. I am not holding whites to some impossibly high standard. Is equal protection under the law TOO MORAL for white people? In this post I complained about what? Japanese Americans being sent to prison camps even though few were charged with any crime. That is setting the bar too high for white people? Or two white thugs kill a Chinese American and serve NO PRISON TIME, like his life was worth nothing. That is too much to ask? Do you know how sick that sounds?
3. I have written a bit about the Congolese war and about genocide and about racism in Brazil, France and China, but for the most part I write about American racism, particularly against blacks. Not because I have some double standard but simply because it affects me way more.
4. I am racist and I know it:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/i-am-racist/
@Herneith Says: I get the where are you from from other blacks also. I think they ask me this in order to find commonality in a possibly shared cultural background for, as I said before, there is a large West Indian population here. There is a large African diaspora here period. They appear to be genuinely interested when I tell them of my background for the most part as do other People of Colour.
I have to admit to being a lot less snarky in my response to other PoC in regards to “where I’m from” even though they are asking the very same question as white people but you know that they understand what it’s like to not be seen as the “true” [insert westernised nationality] and they have probably been asked that question themselves. White people (and again I’m a bit more lenient with foreign white people) get the answer consisting of various cities including the hospital where I was born, most people of color will get the name of my foreparent’s country… maybe after one town name.
I did write about Lou Jing:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/lou-jing/
@Rose:
Johnny is that you?
abagond Says:
No one in Japan would notice a tall Japanese Canadian because all Asians look alike
We do???
@Rose:
‘abagond, why don’t you just give in and admit you’re a racist and call it a day.
Abagond has admitted to this on many occasions. Obviously you have not even perused this blog or else you would have read this.
In your eyes, white people have to be held up to higher moral accountability.
No “Rose’, it is not a ‘given’ to the ‘racists on this blog. You see Rose, being in the power group does infer the mantel of higher moral accountability on your shoulders. A mantel I may add that was not voluntarily put there by racialized people. You see fit to complain about people who discuss the adverse effects of white supremacy? You see “Rose’, one should be aware of what is going on around oneself. It can be deleterious to one’s mental and physical health if you are not. For you see, as with any adversity, the more you know, the better you can deal with it, thus lessening these deleterious effects. But then you wouldn’t want that would you? Else you would not have an excuse to harass racialized people with the ‘mighty whitey’ syndrome.
You’re pathetic and so is this blog and most of the anti-white conspiracy theory yahoos. Hopefully someday you will learn to get the hatred out of your heart. However, at this time you’re a very sad, myopic and mean-spirited person.
No Rose. It is you who are pathetic. You deflect the argument from the topic at hand which is why Asians are seen as perpetual foreigners. It’s as if you came here to lecture the ‘coloured’ and ‘orientals’ as to what they should be discussing. Maybe we should have invited you to moderate like good ‘coloureds’ and ‘orientals’? I’m sure you have much to teach us! Did you even bother to read the topic heading? It appears not. I suspect you haven’t even taken a look at this blog to see that it has a plethora of subjects open to discussion. Not just topics on race. If anyone’s myopic it is you. Your tone is patronizing and condescending. In fact, I think that you, Johnny and NotReally are one in the same person, although I could be wrong. If I am, it still doesn’t excuse your racist rant couched under the guise of concern for other racialized people and people in general. Your diversionary tactics have been to no avail.
How come no one has informed “Rose” that all of the problems that she mentioned all have a root in white supremacy?
How come no one has informed “Rose” that all of the problems that she mentioned all have a root in white supremacy?
She already knows that, hence the diversion from the topic at hand.
White society has offered and provided many people of color with an unprecedented and unmatched standard of living, human rights and legal protection that you will find nowhere else in the world, including their respective countries of origin.
Much of this blog contains whining and rambling about such trivial nonsense like “ooh, people think i wasn’t born here, oh its soo horrible” “ooh I cant wear dreadlocks to work, awww it’s so cruel”
; this garbage needs to be put into some serious perspective. Take a trip to China and see how you are treated, while walking down some average street; or why not go to India and live with the locals for a while, and see how much they care about racial sensitivities.
Arab Slave Trader alert!
Rycher Says:
White society has offered and provided many people of color with an unprecedented and unmatched standard of living, human rights and legal protection that you will find nowhere else in the world, including their respective countries of origin.
Not all have done this.
Rycher Says:
Take a trip to China and see how you are treated, while walking down some average street; or why not go to India and live with the locals for a while, and see how much they care about racial sensitivities.
Are the “Go live somewhere else” argument. Typical deflective tactics.
White society hasn’t offered us anything but the crack of their butt.
LOL!
[...] the conflation of Asianness with foreignness should not contaminate the research methods of studies on the racial perception of East Asians. [...]
Yes, I see the girl in the Virgin ad as a foreigner. No I didn’t apply the “perpetual foreigner stereotype” onto her. I’m looking at the ad through the eyes of an American so I’m going to assume that every kid, no matter what color or race, is on that ad is going to be a foreigner. As it stands, I’m looking at her use of the V sign, an expression used to death by many Japanese I should add. If it were a Black kid, I would think he or she were an African or Caribbean penpal. If he or she were white, I would’ve guessed a Lithuanian or French penpal.
@ Rycher *even though his/her post was made a while ago* i did live in China for 3 months and i loved it. i’m considering living there in the future. perfect, no. but i didn’t feel much different than in the US. For some reason i always have the sense i am being stared at even here. so, when they stare at me there it isn’t such a big deal.
Even though most British people assumed I was 100% East Asian, I never felt I was treated like a perpetual foreigner there. Perhaps by children and racist teenagers, but not so much by adults.
I’ve never lived in the US, but in Canada it seemed to be of far more importance for people to know what exactly my racial make-up was. So I got many more questions along the lines of, ‘Where are you from?’ from adults.
I haven’t had anyone compliment me on my English, but I have had people act as if they don’t understand me in Canada, as if I’m speaking another language. Then someone with me (who was white) would repeat what I had said with the exact same accent and the person would magically get it.
My dad is West Indian, and while I was in middle school he got the “Oh, I just LOVE your accent!” thing all the time. He hated it (of course), but he would just smile and say, “I was just about to say the same thing to you!” It always cracked me up.
I learned to think everyone was born here, even those with accents. Why? Because I have met people who are born here, never even been to their parents homeland but speak with a thick accent. LOL! “Foreign” accents mean nothing.
Nigerians will always be perpetual foreigners.
They work together and play together. Pray together in “churches” with fold up chairs in a strip mall and a pastor with a mail order PhD in theology.
@ Everett
“Nigerians will always be perpetual foreigners.”
Not in Nigeria.
[...] it’s referred to as the perpetual foreigner syndrome to outsiders–for us, it’s something a bit different as we make a bid to assimilate (or [...]
I grew up with so many Asian Americans I assume the Asians I see are native born. However, I am familiar with this perpetual foreigner stereotype as it applies to them, and its strange. It isn’t surprising though, that many whites think that they are the one and true Americans and POC and especially Asians, are foreigners.
this article is so true. i myself am bi racial, korean and italian descent.
i look asian, not of european descent at all.
i sometimes get mistaken as being chinese, or filipino.
its now 2011, and in America this is still a big problem, overall.
people who look foreign are perceived to not be american.
i am american. i was born here, raised here etc. but many people have this ignorant belief that to be american, you have to have blue eyes and brown hair. this belief is uneducated at best, but the underlying reason is pure and simple prejudice and racism. in the minds of americans especially white america, many not all, think that you have to be white to be truly american.
si have experienced this covert racism many, many times. not like in the 80′s when i was a teenager (worse back then), but since 9/11 this phenomenon seems to have gotten worse. in the era of globalization and increased competition in the world, this perpetual foreignor syndrome is only getting worse in my opinion. until the races are more equally distributed, will this problem cease to exist.
A great example of the perpetual foreigner stereotype:
I told a white woman about the Japanese American internment during the Second World War. She pointed out that the Union army during the Civil War ran prison camps too. Harry Truman’s grandmother, for example, was put in one. Then she said: “So you see, Americans are put in prison camps too!” This was in 2012. Out of the mouth of a white liberal Obama voter.
[...] from?” question and the fact is, he’s from HERE. Let’s not perpetuate the perpetual foreigner stereotype because we know a white couple or two who adopted a baby from [...]
:::sighs::: I hear where you’re coming from and I hurt with everyone ever suffering under baseless racism.
Growing up in Detroit I was subjected to it in public schools, not allowed to “belong”, laughed at as “stupid”, punched and pinched, threatened, and lied about that nearly resulted in a race riot – about 200 of each “white: and “black” ready to “throw down” after school.
This was between the ages of 8 and 12. I am allegedly “white” and of Polish descent.
Later in life I worked with a brilliant woman who some might call “black”.
She related what happened in supermarket line. She got in line and was waiting patiently when a child in the basket in front of her peeked around his mother and said, Mama, Look! A N—-r!” The mother grabbed his arm and jerked him saying, “Watch your mouth!”. My friend spoke to the woman, “No, YOU watch YOUR mouth. Children aren’t born with prejudice, they learn it at home.”
I was picked on as an allegedly “white” child whose “ancestors” were responsible for the “black’s” condition in America.
Which was a lie. I am only 3rd generation American. MY people were have a very long history of oppression that includes being captured and sold as slaves. I really resent being lumped together with the assholes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland
My point? That all this looking into the past to explain the present will NEVER bring about a bright future.
Reverse racism is just as bad as racism itself. Realize that there are many “whites” that despise the “whites” that claim to represent us.
Realize that many of “those type of whites” are currently Congressmen and Senators – oh yes, they are – they wrangle the subject any way they can to make a buck. (And there are many of ALL races who play the races against each other for gain)
Realize that despising ALL WHITES and just saying “by whites” or “whites did it” etc., is just as bad, just as evil as the “whites” that ever said “all [race/religion/ethnicity] are …”
The cure is to speak specifically, and find ANY racism reprehensible. Otherwise you allow others to manipulate your thoughts, and use you to continue this evil.