Mariah Carey has been one of the best-selling singers in America ever since her very first song, “Visions of Love”, in 1990. But through it all she has been dogged by questions about her race. In 2006 Sandra Bernhard said that Carey is only black when it helps her to sell music.
Here is what Carey told JET magazine in 1999:
Ethnically, I’m a person of mixed race. My father’s mother was African-American. His father was from Venezuela. My mother is Irish. I see myself as a person of color who happens to be mixed with a lot of things… No matter what you say, when someone asks you the question ‘What are you?’ and you say ‘Black’ and you look mixed, they’re going to ask what you’re mixed with. That’s what always happens.
She sees this sort of questioning as racist:
What I find racist and unfair is that if someone’s half Chinese and half Italian, that’s two different races, why are they not forced to constantly define what they are? When it comes to a Black and a White thing, people are up in arms.
She would have been Mariah Nuñez if her father’s father had not changed his name.
So far as I know she has never hid her background from the press. Soon after her second song hit number one in late 1990, she told the press, “My father is black and Venezuelan. My mother Irish and an opera singer. I am me.”
Her recording company, Columbia Records, however, was not so forthright. In person she clearly looks part black. Lisa Jones of the Village Voice said she comes across “quite clearly, as a rainbow baby of African descent, skin toasted almond and hair light brown.” But she is close enough to white that with the right lighting she can be made to look white.
And when she came out she did seem white. Nelson George called her “a white girl who can sing”. I remember thinking the same thing. Others said she was a white Whitney Houston. Given all the money Columbia had put into pushing Carey it was probably no accident.
If Mariah Carey had first been seen as black then there was a good chance that “Visions of Love”, an R&B song, would have only been played on black radio stations. Few whites would have bought it and Columbia would have made far less money.
It was not just the way she looked, it was her music too. The music she wanted to do – and later did do – was more R&B and hip hop. But in the early years producers made sure her music was whiter.
But strangely, while her music has become blacker and she is now widely regarded as black, her looks have become whiter. Her hair is lighter and straighter and her nose is much more pointed and narrow than before.
She has called herself a person of mixed race, a person of colour, but as far as I know she did not straight-out say she was black till 2009 in an interview with The Guardian: “I’m a black woman who is very light skinned.”
See also:
- biracial
- One Drop Rule
- The blackness of:
- The Wigger Fallacy
- Rosario Dawson – half Afro-Latino and half white
A few years ago, Mariah appeared on the Wendy Williams show. When Wendy referred to her as a “black girl”, Mariah happily agreed with that coinage. So, there’s one instance of herself calling herself black. Also, in Jermaine Dupri’s autobiography, he said that Carey “sees herself as a black woman”.
I agree, she has become “whiter”-looking in later years. Jennifer Lopez and Beyonce Knowles are similar in that respect as well. Once they reached a level of mainstream visibility, the whiter they started looking. Compare and constrast photos of both ladies at the beginning of their careers to now, and you’ll see some notable differences. I wonder if it’s coincidental.
Also, I see, she’s also noticed the same disparity in reaction towards black/white offspring and white/non-black offspring.
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yeah, definitely the boobs and nose have been revamped to better suit bland, mainstream, barbie-doll fantasies.
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oops, sorry, wrong link.
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I know. Society has always make a big stink over famous multiracials of Black/nonBlack ancestry. Witness the constant questioning of Tiger Woods, Paula Abdul, Vanity, Prince(yes, Prince!), Barack Obama, Mariah Carey, Lani Guinier, and Halle Berry by mainstream media and society over the past 20 years.
Mariah Carey has every right to claim all parts of herself and to be proud of who she really is instead of compartamentalize them in order to satisfy narrow-minded bigots in society.
No other ethnic group in America that is scrutinized and analyzed than Blacks and people of partial Black ancestry. When will this insanity end?
La Reyna
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Paula Abdul has no known black ancestry. Her father is a Syrian Jew who came to America via Brazil, and her mother is also Jewish.
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i am not black – so I am only an outside observer. But if asked i would say I am an american of scottish, german and american indian decent. I never understood why its one or the other if your part black…why cant you be proud of all your heritage.
If my brother-in-law is asked – he says he is black…even though his mother is latin.
My coworker (who is “black”) says my bro-in-law is not black – because he is not 100%.
You bring this down to my niece (who is like Mariah Carey (.25 black, .25 latin and .25 german and .25 other) who for some people, that little bit of black makes up her whole idenity. But when my sister took her too a black hair salon for assistance (my sisters and my hair is very straight and oily where as beccas here was getting dried out and frizzing up) the message given to my sister was she wasnt black enough. My sister looks to her husbands aunties to help rebecca with her black american culture – unless its the black folks art displays and such that my sister and I take her too.
And to Le Reynas point – most people dont know that Linda Carter (wonder women) and Catherine Bach (Daisy Duke) where of mixed race…latin and caucasin…but still their mixed heritage was downplayed and i bet most people think they were white.
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Davida,
“Latin” isn’t a race. As I stated in another post, Carey’s father was a black American with a Venezeluean grandparent who was also black. The term “Latino” applies to nationality, not race. I don’t blame you for being confused. the U.S. media and society manipulates the term “Latino/Hispanic” to make it seem like another “race” (i.e. “black”, “white”, Asian). IMO, all this shows is why all these racial labels should cease, but in this country, that’s probably just wishful thinking on my part.
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Tiger Woods, Paula Abdul, Vanity, Prince(yes, Prince!), Barack Obama, Mariah Carey, Lani Guinier, and Halle Berry
A fitting company for the President-anoint, I must say. A bunch of vapid celebrities and a tenured radical/racial quota advocate.
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I have said some unkind things about Tiger Woods, but I would not call him vapid.
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mynameismyname: I kind of thought she must have said she was black at some point. Thanks for the Wendy Williams reference.
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someone awful: thanks for your awful link. Those are good before and after pictures.
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Right, Latin is no more a race than “American” is and for the same reason. Just like Americans come in different colours, so do Latin or Hispanic people.
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Latin is a mix of either Indian(asian) and Spaniards…or in some places Spainards and people of african decent…if you call a person of african decent from cuba a “black” person…they get very upset.
At some point this gets all very confusing and crazy. I used the term Latin because I wasnt sure where her family came from. I guess I could have said they are of white and indian(asian) mix now commonly know as latino. Its like people with hyphenated names…where does it all end.
Descriptions on some level are necessary. If I ask a friend to meet someone they have never mett at the airport…and I can not discribe this person as a short brown haired white girl…or a tall grey haired black man (i.e. dark skin tone)…it gets difficult.
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Latinos are mix of native Indian which is Taino, Arawak, Caribs. Portuguese, African, Spanish, French, Dutch and yes Asian but it’s a very small %. It’s so small I doubt it’s even detectable if you we’re to trace a number of Latinos ancestry.
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Davida … Latinos are a mixture of mainly African, Spanish (white Spainards), and Indian blood … in most places. I think that most Latinos have more African blood than Indian though. I could be wrong.
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Many Latinos from in and near the Caribbean and Brazil are black or part black. Colombia, for example, has plenty of blacks. But in other places, like Mexico or Argentina, it is less common.
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I like quite a bit of Mariah’s music, but I’d rather just listen to it than watch the videos that come with it these days, because when I see them it saddens me to see what shes done to herself to look more “mainstream”.
Only a few years ago did I realise Mariah was part black, beforehand I considered her, like you said a “white girl that can sing”…I just assumed she was on of those white singers who did “blue eyed soul”. In my opinion,she only looked part black when she first came out before all the surgery, skin bleach and implants…
Thanks for writing this, I enjoy reading the things you post
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Billie Walker,
I agree with that so much. I think her videos nowadays are trash. I think her music has pretty much lost most of the depth that it started out with early in her career.
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i tend to expect biracial or mixed race people (black/white) to identify with or as black for socio-political reasons… but should they have to? i am black, though ‘technically’ mixed race. i also have mixed race daughters… one obviously brown, the other a bit like mariah’s colouring… i hope they will always identify with their black heritage, but can’t/wouldn’t deny them their white roots too…
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I agree: her videos these days are painful to watch!
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The Latino/Hispanic classification can be clarified by linking it to ALL peoples who originate from a Latin American country (eg. Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Argentina, Chile, Columbia, etc.). These countries all share a cultural ancestry that is made up mainly of A MIX OF Spanish/African and Native RACES/CULTURES. What has ALWAYS bothered me as a Hispanic person of mixed African/Spanish/West Indian descent, is how those who use RACIST,IGNORANT,and OUTDATED classifications(like the One Drop Rule), try to DEFINE AWAY my Hispanic identity (soley because of my African ancestry) AS BEING ONLY BLACK and ONLY ALLOW Hispanics of MIXED Native/Spanish or other NON-AFRICAN ancestry to identify themselves as JUST HISPANIC.
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That is because in the English-speaking world race is seen as having a deeper effect on you than language, culture, religion, wealth or education. It is a racist way of looking at you, but then these people are racists!
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if you were creating a system, for america, to classify people for health care systems, identification purposes etc…What would you use?
You need to locate a specific purpose. What do you use to define this person?
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Nonserviam,
If you do not have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.
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i don’t understand why everyone is so concerned about mariah carey’s level of blackness.??? abagond–are you trying to promote racism on this website? i don’t understand what you are trying to get out of a lot of your blogs… not criticising, just don’t get your motives in some of your topics.
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To Phaecat,
Abagond isn’t promoting racism. He’s only making aware of what American society really think on race and racial identity. You should know by now that it is mainstream media and society that is putting Mariah, Jennifer Beals, Tiger Woods, Barack Obama, Vin Diesel, etc., into narrow boxes, i.e. “Black” and Black alone, not acknowledging the multiracial strains of Americans.
American has a long history of denying racial/ethnic hybridity, preferring instead to place people in monochromatic categories and want them to stay in it until the day the die. That’s a travesty and I’m glad Abagond is addressing it instead of sweeping it under the rug.
Steph(La Reyna)
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la reyna,
thanks for your reply, la reyna, and i understand your point and completely agree that these issues need to be addressed. it is sad that society is at the point where
we need a forum to discuss and defend such issues. i just think this should be addressed in a productive, succintly enough manner to get these very important points across. i think some people might not understand this website or take it seriously enough, that’s all. i am a ethnic lesbian, so i understand these issues first hand as well. i live in california and am outraged that prop 8 passed here, so i understand the need to get voices heard but the issues must be specific and focused, and get down to issues at hand… thanks for your reply and i do appreciate that abagond is bring issues to the table. it is greatly needed.
phaecat
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abagond are you saying that she should call herself black despite the fact that she has been treated more as a mixed race or white women by the way her looks have been interpreted by people. people often identify in a certain way because of how people see them as well as how they see themselves.
It is more understandable that a mixed race person who is darker like halle berry identifies as black because she has probably been treated as a black women or evan a women of colour more often than mariah carey has been.
I can see why brown skinned biracial people may identify as black. but once it starts getting closer to 1/4 black like mariah carey, wentworth miller and adriana lima surely that can’t be expected from them? mariah carey identfies with the black community and is not the type to be up in arms if someone calls her black or white, she doesn’t really care. but sees herself as mixed nonetheless.
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^
Mariah is actually more like 1/2 black. Not a 1/4.
What would you make of black Americans (with two ‘black’ parents) who are phenotypically white yet identify as black?
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she isn’t half black, i don’t know why people keep saying that.people wanted to also claim that wentworth miller is half black-he is 1/4 lebanese, 1/4 black & half white.Mariah Carey has said before in british pride magazine that people mis-quote her dad as black venezualan when in fact he is black & other things. those were her own words. she has less than half black in her. her looks are also more typical of people that are 1/4 black.
what do i think of people that come out looking whiter but have two parents who are black. i think that it makes sense of they say they are black, but there will probably also be problems with identity if they keep getting the are you mixed? questions.
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So, if it makes sense for someone who is “whiter looking” with two black-identified parents to identify as black, why not for someone like Mariah, who has one black parent but appears racially ambigious?
If someone is Italian and German, yet appears more Italian, is it wrong if they identify as German? Or at least, identify as that?
Again, Mariah’s father was an African American. From Alabama, at that. I’ve seen some of her black relatives. Trust me, if you saw them (or her siblings), you wouldn’t doubt or question her blackness. In her own words, “My father was black, and slightly Venezuelean.” And she found out that the Venezuelean grandparent on one side was also black.
This whole discourse goes to show you how VISUAL the whole social concept of “race” is. If Mariah looked more like her siblings or cousins, this article on this website wouldn’t even exist.
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Does it really matter what “race” she is. The bottom line is that she is MULTI-racial. She like many is also MULTI-ethnic. The American society has a deeply embeded desire to classify all peoples in the terms of black and white. What is even more disturbing is that a negative connatation is always connected if african desent is part of the multi-ethnic equation. If she does not identify with her african roots then she is denying her heritage and blacks look at her negativly. If she identifies with her african roots then whites are less likely to accecpt her. This is uniquely American quality. As a person of Spanish/African/Caribe & Iroquis Indian desent who hails from Puerto Rico can say first hand that people are connected more by culture than racial desent. I have relatives that for all intents and purposes appear white (fair skinned, blond & blue eyed) and others that are as dark as night with kinky or tightly curled hair and everthin im between. But we all identify as Puerto Rican b/c of our culture. So Mariah is what ever culture she identifies w/ most. Last I looked …..seemed to be just plain old American!
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Finally, intelligent anwsers on a very over- blown topic of discussion in this country! I really have to commend everyone that has responded on this so far!!! As I jokingly tell my daughters and nieces “you’re not black, you’re not asian; you’re confused” and sadly that is probably how most multi-racial people must feel. But as far as Mariah carey-Cannon goes; I’ve followed her career for many years and I have NEVER heard her just say “yes, I’m black”. Maybe because it would be a wrong statement, or maybe because she would isolate a part of herself or those the follow her. But the exceptional point was made that once a multi-racial star attains a certian degree of celebrity their, features begin to lighten i.e. Marc Anthony’s wife, Beyonce Mariah. And it was Mariah’s initial appearance that sent me to the PX to buy her debut album, but since that time she has lightened her hair and her nose is not the same. But I still love her (sorry Nick, I saw her first)and her music. The thing that irks me is when someone trys to blow smoke on their unique, multi-racial appearing looks. I.E. video models/aspiring actresses stating “I’m 1/4 this and 1/8 that”… But as I was told a long time ago “This is America; everything is about race”.
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mixed children come in all shades look at michael jacksons children they say they are not his because they are too light and people thought DeBarge were hispanic for years and their mother is black and their father french they consider themselves black so…
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People please, let me clarify something here. Just because her dad is venezuelan, does not mean that he’s not black there are black people in Venezuela (a lot) too, albeit they are mixed with spanish and prolly amerindian.They are however still black, because most AA are mixed somewhere along the line with something and they are still considered AAs.
How do i know, i myself am black and my family and i are from venezuela, afro-venezuelans. Mariah’s dad is a venezuelan of African descent and her mom is white. 1/2 black, 1/2 white.
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I don’t actually believe Mariah Carey has done anything to her nose, although i agree it wasn’t as ‘slim/sharp’ in her early years this dosen’t mean she has had surgery done.
You see people’s nose can change depending on wieght loss or as you get older,for example..
if you loose weight your nose can have a more ‘slender’ looking appearence, or if your a young child your nose hasn’t grown to its full size & can i have a button type appearence.
Like me, i’m 14 now, i had a button/babyish nose until i was about 11/12 then my brigde grew, the bone in my nose grew making my nose have a more slender appearence, there wasnt any surgery down there!
& i would also like to add i think its really unfair when people say Beyonce’s skin has become lighter, & a few years back she did a photo shoot 4 a make-up line, a radio station was discussing this & people suggested her skin was ‘lightend’ in the picture. Well ive seen pictures of beyonce from ages 9-15 years & she had very fair skin, this was before all the make-up and before fame. Beyonce’s mother is a mix of different races, Beyonce’s natural skin tone is very fair, sometimes she wears make-up darker then her skin tone to make her skin glow & look radiant, i think people usually assume that this is her natural skin tone, so when Beyonce makes a video or comes to an advent with natural make-up thats the same as her skin this confuses people & they think she’s deliberately making her skin seem lighter then it is.
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I believe that people should be encouraged to celebrate all aspects of their racial heritage and not feel pressured by others to choose one race over the other.
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Biracial or multiracial people should not see themselves as just one race. That irritates me so bad. Just embrace everything about you, accept all of yourself and all of what you are, not just a part of you, b/c thats not fair to the other parts of yourself, and its really not fair to you either. I am multiracial- White, Indian, Latino, & black, and I CLAIM and ACCEPT ALL of what I am.
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So if you are mixed of 2 or more different races, admit it, claim it, and accept it. Don’t claim only a part of yourself and deny the other(s). Accept yourself for what you really are!
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Again LATINO IS NOT A RACE
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Latinos/Hispanics/Latin Americans are generally people of mixed Spanish/Native ancestry, mixed Spanish/African ancestry, mixed Spanish/African/Native ancestry, or Spanish ancestry who share the same Spanish language, Spanish culture/mixed Spanish culture, and originate from Latin American countries or Spain.
Although TECHNICALLY Latino is not a “race” (although “race” is an invented construct) it is an ACCURATE classification for those who belong to the groups I’ve mentioned above.
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Latino and Hispanic are not synonymous
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As a member of the Hispanic/Latino community, I’ve seen other Hispanics/Latinos use these terms interchangeably.
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Well technically, she is not just black. She is a person of mixed race so I think she has a right to say exactly what it is.
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Hispanic means Spanish-speaking. It has nothing to do with race.
Brazilians make up half of Latin America and speak Portuguese – so they are Latinos but not Hispanics.
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Mariah Carey’s name would have been Mariah Nuñez – think how she would have been seen then! – but her father’s father changed his name from Nuñez to Carey when he moved from Venezuela to the States.
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abagond,
We can agree to disagree but, in the Hispanic community, the terms Hispanic and Latino have ALWAYS BEEN/CONTINUE TO BE used interchangeably.
Also,in the Hispanic community, SOLELY SPEAKING SPANISH, is not SUFFICIENT to classify a person as Hispanic. Having Spanish/Native ancestry, mixed Spanish/African ancestry, mixed Spanish/African/Native ancestry, or Spanish ancestry IS A MAIN FACTOR in this designation. I grew up with White Americans/Other Non-Spanish/Latin American Europeans who were born and raised in Latin America but were NEVER considered Hispanic.
Of course, since Brazil is a Latin America country, Brazilians are considered Latinos (as are Argentinians,Paraguayans, Uruguayans, and Chileans)and CAN ALSO BE considered Hispanic if they have ANY SPANISH ancestry.
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So you are saying Hispanic is racial – that it means being part Spanish mixed with black or Native? So a Spanish-speaking person who is 100% white or 100% black or 100% Native would NOT be Hispanic?
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Latino = Latin American = A person of any race that comes from an American (North & South) Country where the main language is derived from latin.
French, Italian, Romanian, Spanish and Portuguese.
So not only are Brazilians latino but also Haitians as well.
The stereotype “Latino” look is nothing more than a racist delusion.
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mynameismyname what would you do with the made up social construct that is known as Race–how do we get rid of the notion of race and just be called the Human Race?
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The answer starts with freeing our minds. But again, that may be a bit abstract. I don’t think the social construct of race will ever fully vanish. At least not in the Western world. This whole part of the world was founded and based on division and heirachy. So why would it change?
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WEBSTER’S ONLINE DICTIONARY:
[CAPS MINE]
Hispanic is one of several terms used to describe residents of the US whose background are the Spanish speaking countries of Latin America. It is used to identify immigrants and their descendants of a wide range of ethnicities, races, cultures and nationalities, who use Spanish as primary language. Hispanics are the largest minority group in the US, comprising 13.4% of the population, i.e. about 40 million people in 2003. The Hispanic population grows at about 4% per year, much faster than other ethnic groups in the US.
Sometimes the term Hispanic is used also for people having immigrated from Spain.
This is a MISINTERPRETATION, since the variety of roots of the population in Latin America (mainly white, black and indian) does not exist in Spain, a European country similar to Italy or France. The adequate name for the immigrants from Spain SHOULD BE “SPANISH”, OR BETTER “FROM SPAIN”.
Some people consider Hispanic to be too general as a label, and some consider it offensive, often preferring instead to use the self-chosen term Latino. This term states more clearly that it refers to people from Latin America, excluding Spain.
The term Hispanic is believed to have come into mainstream prominence following its inclusion in a questionnaire in the 1980 USA Census, which asked people to voluntarily identify if they were of “Spanish/Hispanic ORIGIN OR DESCENT”. The Filippino people were not included as Hispanics, but asiatics. Some suggest the word Hispaniola is where it comes from, which is a Caribbean island presently shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic. The name given by Christopher Columbus to the first island he took for Spain was “isla española” (Spanish island). Hispaniola is however not an Anglicization of “española”. It is also used in Spanish, and it is the Latin form of “Española”, coined by Pedro Mártir de Anglería, an Italian humanist whose real name was Pietro Martire d’Anghiera. The term Hispanic was recommended by a former President of the US to name the immigrants that come from Spanish speaking Latin American countries south of the US border.
Usage seems as related to geography as it is to politics, with Latino widely preferred in California and Hispanic the more usual term in Florida and Texas. Even in these regions, however, usage is OFTEN MIXED,and IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO FIND BOTH TERMS USED by the same writer or speaker.
Aside from “Latino”, other terms are used for more specific subsets of the Hispanic population. These terms often relate to specific countries of origin, such as “Mexican American”, “Cuban”, “Dominican” or “Puerto Rican”. “Mexican” is highly pejorative in some parts of Southwest USA (e.g. Santa Fe, New Mexico), but not in others, like the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.
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Mariah is basically a Latina. Deal with it. Only in America is she forced to pick sides.
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All I know about Mariah Carey is that I’ll tap that so much and so hard, I’ll make her sing that high note.
Yes she’s part afro-latino but she would never get any roles for to play a “latino”
Here’s why:
http://neckback.blogspot.com/2009/09/stereotypical-latinolatina-look.html
Somebody please comment on my blog. I get all lonely.
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@Bitter,
You said:
“Mariah is basically a Latina. Deal with it. Only in America is she forced to pick sides.”
But Mariah Carey is MIXED, She is venezuelan, black, and white. So Mariah Carey is NOT just a latina. Sounds like you’re classifying her as a latina, and not all of what she really is.
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Billie Walker Says:
Sun 23 Nov 2008 at 19:15:35
I like quite a bit of Mariah’s music, but I’d rather just listen to it than watch the videos that come with it these days, because when I see them it saddens me to see what shes done to herself to look more “mainstream”.
Only a few years ago did I realise Mariah was part black, beforehand I considered her, like you said a “white girl that can sing”…I just assumed she was on of those white singers who did “blue eyed soul”. In my opinion,she only looked part black when she first came out before all the surgery, skin bleach and implants…
Thanks for writing this, I enjoy reading the things you post
Okay, How do you know that Mariah Carey had all these surgeries, bleaches her skin, and got implants?
I noticed she had big boobs when she first came out. And she is multiracial, that’s why she’s so light.. Her mother is white, and her father was light-skinned himself. If she was ever darker before than she is now, it’s because she had a TAN.
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In a brand new interview published just yesterday in the UK publication, The Guardian, Mariah says IN HER OWN WORDS:
“I’m a black woman who is very light skinned.”
Read the entire interview here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oct/03/mariah-carey-interview
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Thank you!
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She doesn’t bleach her skin. In fact, she spray-tans to make herself darker. She’s pasty-pale like me.
That’s a good interview. Very entertaining to read. Thanks for the link.
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Thanks, B&G.
Yes, Mariah like most lighter-skinned black women in the entertainment industry, spray-tans, bronzes and/or wears darker makeup to look browner. Most of the light-colored black women (and men) in the industry are almost all much lighter in person than they are on television and in magazines and professional photos.
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No, all these people are of mixed race and should be proud of their multi-racial background and not this non sense of picking one race, is like denying one of your parent and who you really are.
What is so confusing about that.
If people like Mariah keep on giving up to pressure humanity will never move ahead.
Choosing is racialism, is living in denial and oppression.
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Isn’t it funny how many people want to have an opinon on what Mariah Carey is ethnically. Why? Why does it cause so much controversy? Is it because people can’t cope without having to put people in a box?
Face it. She is mixed race. You can argue all day long if she’ black or latina, she is all of her mixed blood ancestry. And there are so many other people out there that have similar mixes.
We all just need to accept it and start debating subjects that actually matter in our world.
I am mixed race and Mariah Carey is my biggest inspiration.
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^^^
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s all great and well. But you (and other posters) obviously ignored how Mariah describes HERSELF in a quote above.
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Mariah Carey can identify with whomever she wants too. Mariah identifies as a Black woman because of cultural reasons and because she does have Black in her ancestry. More Black people have been more accepting of Mariah Carey and showing her love. She probably can relate to them more than her Irish and Venezualan side. Mariah does love that fact that she is “mixed” race. I’ve never heard her denouce that however, for social reasons she seems to self-identify.
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I’m laughing how people are treating “mixed race” like it’s a seperate identity when DNA wise everyone is “mixed race”. Race is a social construct for many of us to choose sides to maintain White privilege. It’s off a physical appearance alone not ethncity, cultural, nor nationality. That’s why race should not be treated as a personal identity and that’s what people have to understand.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with Dani
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dani,
Excellent observation regarding the INVENTED construct that is “race”.
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^^^
Exactly, Dani!
In an interview with a British urban music magazine in 2005, M.C. said that she sees herself as black because despite the fact that she’s so “mixed race” (sarcasm), it didn’t protect her from being called a ‘nigger’ in high school.
I also want to note that Carey’s Venzeluean “roots” are generations back and of African descent as well. Like Fantasia Barrino and Gilbert Arenas, Carey has a single Afro-Latino grandparent (Barrino and Arenas both have a Cuban grandfather). To keep in line with what Dani said above, I find it interesting that no one is arguing Fantasia or Gil’s blackness! Hmm…I wonder why that is??? (Goes back to what Dani said above.)
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“despite the fact that she’s so “mixed race” (sarcasm), it didn’t protect her from being called a ‘nigger’ in high school. “
When Obama was a nobody he was just black too. There was none of this “biracial” or “half white” business. In high school the white and Asian girls would have little to do with him.
Myname, do you remember which magazine she said that in?
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Aba,
I remember being fascinated by this particular interview. Yet became extremely frustrated when I couldn’t find it again! I do know that it ran in a British urban music magazine in 2005 as it was a cover story promoting her “Empancipation of Mimi” release. That I am sure of. Still makes me mad that I can’t find a link to it!
Agreed about Obama. He was just another “you-know-what” before he was sworn into office. But as we all know, any time a black person does something of note, they suddenly are “less black”. Because being black is such a terrible thing to be! (sarcasm)
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She is not black, she is mixed. Her mother is White Irish and her father is Venezuelan and African American. Most African Americans are part white in case some of you did not know. Anywhere between 80-90% of African Americans are on average 20% WHITE by total ancestry. Her Venezuelan side is mixed raced (LIKELY with WHITE also) as well. Her father resembles a mulatto (50% white 50% black). A MULATTO WITH A WHITE PERSON DOES NOT MAKE A BLACK PERSON. She is AT LEAST 3/4 white if you do your math and know about African American race mixing and the history of Venezuela’s racial mixing.
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You maybe able to socially construe someone as black because the outdated one drop rule, but it will never take away from the fact that a person is mixed raced and not black.
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@ Gabe
You mad? lol Get mad at her for self-identifying as Black.
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Gabe,
Take all of this up with Mariah, man.
Send her an e-mail. Twitter her. Myspace her. Facebook her. Text-message her. Write a letter.
Hell, find any way to contact her with your concerns. Ask her to stop calling herself a black woman for the reasons you provided above. Okay?
Tell me how it goes!
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LOL.
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Recently, Mariah appeared on the Lopez Tonight show. George Lopez asked her what “color” she is and she replied black.
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Damn she looks good!
As for George Lopez doing his DNA test. I bet it comes back 100% Native American lol!
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Leigh:
Good clip. Thanks.
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@Vindicator – It would be very interesting if George Lopez did a DNA test because Mexico like many other Spanish colonies in the New World imported slaves from West Africa.
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I watched the clip once again. And Mariah read George Lopez’s DNA diagnostic results.
He’s:
55% European
32% Native American
9% East Asian
4% Sub-Saharan African
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She said “It’s the law since slavery…any amount of black in you, you are black, in this country.” That is not entirely accurate. She is referring to the so-called “one drop rule,” but those were state laws in southern US states, not a federal law; they were overturned and declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court about 40 years ago. So, the “one drop rule” is not legally valid.
It is interesting that Mariah Carey is still often asked about this after being famous for two decades. As far as the issue of her nose being altered, the photo evidence seems conclusive that she did have surgery. It is ironic that, after all those alterations, she is now much more comfortable about embracing her African American ancestry than before.
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“Isn’t it funny how many people want to have an opinon on what Mariah Carey is ethnically. Why? Why does it cause so much controversy? Is it because people can’t cope without having to put people in a box?
Face it. She is mixed race. You can argue all day long if she’ black or latina, she is all of her mixed blood ancestry. And there are so many other people out there that have similar mixes.
We all just need to accept it and start debating subjects that actually matter in our world.”
_______________________________________________I agree. This obsessive madness with classifying multiracials by race has to stop. I’m sick of people saying that is Black people who put her in a box while letting white people slide. The mainstream media has a habit of placing multiracial people as “Black” instead of multiracial. They’re the ones who are making a big deal out of her race.
Like I said, American society has long been obsessive with multiracials of partial African ancestry. They made a big deal over Tiger Woods, Derek Jeter, Lani Guinier, Barack Obama, Halle Berry, Leona Lewis, Mariah Carey, Alicia Keys, the OJ trial, Tiger Woods scandal, etc.
Oh, and that comment about “what about the children” is code for black/noblack mixed people and the “threat” to mainstream America.
Reyna
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And one other thing, Sandra Berhard needs to shut up about Mariah Carey. She knows next to nothing about her except her ethnicity.
Reyna(Stephanie B.)
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Mariah is one of my favorvite artist of all time, I don’t care what people see her as…black..white..hispanic..whatever. All that doesn’t matter; she’s very talented and can sing, and that’s what matters because she’s a music artist.
I do think the music she was been putting out as of late is by no means even close to her potential…she’s selling her fans and herself short with crap like “Touch my Body”…I’d rather listen to her older albums.
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@Image – Couldn’t agree with you more – her ethnicity doesn’t matter to me either. I also don’t like her newer stuff. Its very much like all the formulaic R&B music that is the norm these days.
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Here’s another Mariah song (“Can’t Take That Away”) on multiracial social problems. “Outside”, which I posted on this blog a long time ago, was about mixed race social alienation. This one is more about bullying.
I think Mariah’s recent identification as black has to do with her marriage to Nick Cannon. I get the sense that mixed people have a tendency to adopt the racial identity of their spouse.
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You know everyone seems to forget that Mariah only RECENTLY started identifying as Black. You are forgetting all those years she identified as Biracial,mixed race, Multiracial, Tri-racial and in one song she did with some one else where she was being featured i forget the name she referred to herself as a 120% Mulatto and i even one time heard her referring to herself as a mutt,You are forgetting all the songs she’s made talking about how it was being Biracial she never made a song talking about what it feels like to be black,
Its like now that Mariah is calling herself black now everyone want to forget all the years she didn’t call herself black. a lot of Blacks ( not all ) seem all to happy with her racial identity NOW… because she’s identifying the way most blacks WANTED her to identify in the first place. What were blacks saying when she was identifying as Biracial for almost 20 years of her career ” Mariah’s so confused ” ” Mariah just dont want to be Black thats why she says she’s Biracial ” Mariah you Black girl one drop, one drop remember ” “Mariah is ashamed of her Black heritage ” blah blah blah
Blacks WEREN’T respecting the way she was identifying when that identity was a biracial or Multiracial one they were belittling her and holding her in contempt just as they hold Tiger Woods in contempt today for not identifying as a Black man but now all the sudden blacks what to respect Mariah’s racial identity choice now that it’s black and not Biracial hmm I wonder why.
The biggest supporters of enforcing the ” one drop rule” loud and clear now in 2010 is not white people anymore it’s BLACK PEOPLE. You dont hear white people shouting at the top of their lungs at Biracial people who identify as Biracial ” Nope nah ah You black, one drop, one drop, remember ” you hear that coming from who now ? BLACK PEOPLE. But black people are denying their the ones that are enforcing it most now, the only thing you hear now from blacks is ” Well we didnt make that rule white people did ” as if that some how makes it okay for them to enforce it and perpetuate it because.. ” Black people didnt come up with it white people did ” I’m so sick of hearing that as an excuse why its okay for blacks to join in on the racism
SORRY THAT DOESN’T MAKE IT OKAY FOR BLACKS TO SUPPORT THE ” ONE DROP RULE ” NOW IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK IGNORANT 2 WRONGS DOESN’T MAKE ANYTHING RIGHT.
Do you realize the one drop rule was #1 to keep the white race so called pure #2. to increase slave stock #3: to imply that Black blood was so dirty it contaminated anything it touched, That one drop was enough to cancel out all other heritage even if the other heritage wasn’t white you weren’t worthy enough to acknowledge that heritage either but you especially weren’t worthy enough to claim the white , it was meant to say that because you’ve been so called contaminated by black blood you weren’t worthy enough to acknowledge anything except the black in you which was automatically deemed to be inferior to all other races, the lowest of the low, black was looked at as so inferior it wasn’t even looked at a human. now tell me something, what Black person in their right freaking mind would want to support,enforce, or perpetuate this mindset unless of course you agreed with it ? and if you do then you may want to seek therapy.
You know i wonder had Obama came out stating that he identified as Biracial would you have so maaannny black people supporting him ? would you have blacks respecting his racial identity choice rather than a black identity choice? probably not. Blacks didn’t start respecting Mariah’s racial identity choice until that identity choice was a black one, now if all the sudden Tiger calls himself and identifies as a black man instead of cablasian Black people will start supporting his racial identity choice too and probably wont give a rats ass how many women he cheated on his wife with I’ve heard plenty of blacks say they don’t support Tiger with all the stuff that’s going on with him cheating on his wife because he doesn’t call himself black. hmmm so what are blacks people saying they WOULD have supported him excessively cheating on his wife had he chosen to identify as black . WTF if that’s not the most messed up thing I’ve ever heard. Black people shouldn’t be supporting him because he is a dog and a womanizer it should have nothing to do with whether he chooses to identify as a black man or not that should be irrelevant
I honestly think that Mariah has been Black people mailed it is a little known fact that if you are Biracial and identify as such the black community looks down on you and holds you in contempt, throws out the old guilt trip ” You would have been a slave too, you would have been drinking out of the colored fountains too, you must be ashamed of your black blood, you must think you are better than us, “the white man views you as a Nigger just like me” as if blacks know what all white people think in 2010. There is a huge pressure and i do mean huge pressure to only identify as black is you are biracial if you dont conform then you are a trader or sell out. I think because Mariah does black music and hangs with a lot of blacks… blacks have managed to brainwash her and i feel that she was able to be brainwashed because she was very conflicted over being biracial in the first place, it is easier to brainwash a person when they dont have a strong sense of self to begin with if she had a strong sense of self she would have never identified as biracial for almost her whole life then all the sudden POOF By George I think I’ve got it now ” I’m a Black women, just very very light skin ” So what were you before when you was identifying as mixed race almost your whole damn life Mariah CONFUSED???? cause thats the way she made herself look with the ” I’m a black women now “
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To FG : Thats not always true I’m married to a black man and i still call myself Biracial. But also Mariah is a celebrity so how would it look to the public especially the black community if she still identified as mixed race ” oh she must STILL think she’s better than US and her Black husband well i guess Mariah’s still confused ”
I wonder if she gets a divorce from Nick if she’ll go back to identifying as mixed race or Biracial… if a divorce ever happens and she does go back to identifying as biracial then you know why she was identifying as black in the first place.
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I think that Mariah Carey is a very gorgeous person in and out and she is a wondeful singer and i hope that my wish will come true to meet her.
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Mulatta_Girl1977
I agree that black people should stop supporting the one drop rule. However I do believe that plenty of white people still support this rule aswell thats why it still exists. Also in my lifetime a good number of biracials that Ive come acrossed self identified as black. Why dont you write them a long paragraph about them forcing the odr on themselves? I myself do not agree with the one drop rule. My sister tries to pass her unpure/mixed up kids off as black and I correct her on that shit all the time. My boyfriends sisters are only 25% black and still insist on calling themselves black women and I have corrected them. So instead of blaming black people you should address some of your fellow biracials for going with the flow aswell.
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I think the problem isn’t the “one drop rule”, it’s the overwhelming American ideology that identity is a homogenous and unified thing – i.e. that one can “only” be black or bi-racial.
People, of course, can be black, white AND biracial. It all depends on context.
The myth of essential identity is far more pernicious in American race and ethnic thought than the “one drop rule”.
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>>FG- I think Mariah’s recent identification as black has to do with her marriage to Nick Cannon. I get the sense that mixed people have a tendency to adopt the racial identity of their spouse.<<
I've seen most foreign women married to American GIs come to the States and do the same thing.
Back in the 90s, I knew an elderly French woman who had married a black GI right after WWII. It was a riot to hear her cussing out "white people."
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>Recently, Mariah appeared on the Lopez Tonight show. George Lopez asked her what “color” she is and she replied black.<<
I've seen in a couple of Latin magazines that Latinos claim her.
There was a hilarious SNL skit on that. They had "official representatives" from various ethnic groups engaging in an NFL-like "draft pick" of mixed-race celebrities. For instance, the Asian and African-American representatives were both vying for Tiger Woods.
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>>My sister tries to pass her unpure/mixed up kids off as black and I correct her on that shit all the time. My boyfriends sisters are only 25% black and still insist on calling themselves black women and I have corrected them. So instead of blaming black people you should address some of your fellow biracials for going with the flow as well.<<
You are the one who is wrong for not engaging them in a discussion as to why they do identify with black people.
What, do you think they just flipped a coin?
Do you think it's not possible that they attempted as children to be "in the middle" and found it to be impossible in their corner of the world to be "in the middle?"
Thaddeus said: "I think the problem isn’t the “one drop rule”, it’s the overwhelming American ideology that identity is a homogenous and unified thing – i.e. that one can “only” be black or bi-racial. "
This is basically the truth of dealing with Americans, at least up through the Boomer Generation and probably largely the X-Generation. Society forced us in those generations to "choose a side."
Generally speaking, if you didn't look clearly white, "Caucasian" wasn't a choice. If you looked to whites like you might be black, they treated you as black, and that treatment was unjust and bigoted. If you looked to blacks that you might be black, they accepted you as black. In the large, "resistance was futile."
It may still be. Before you condemn them, find out why they've made the choice they made.
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>>My sister tries to pass her unpure/mixed up kids off as black and I correct her on that shit all the time. My boyfriends sisters are only 25% black and still insist on calling themselves black women and I have corrected them. So instead of blaming black people you should address some of your fellow biracials for going with the flow as well.<<
You are the one who is wrong for not engaging them in a discussion as to why they do identify with black people.
Wrong Excuse me RKirk but when did I say I never engaged with them. I corrected and engaged with them at the same time so dont jump to conclusions. Its not my responsibility anyway to engage with them or to teach them math and common sense. They know that one fourth is not the same as a whole and a non black mother with a multiracial barely black father cant produce a black child.
“What, do you think they just flipped a coin?”
First of all I really dont give a damn about how biracials as a whole veiw themselves. But if someone in my family or in my space is calling themself black when they are not then be prepared for correction. If they dont like what I say then stay the hell away from me. If you dont like what I type then dont read it! I just gave those two examples because people seem to think blacks are the main culprits when it comes to the one drop rule. How are blacks (who have no power in this society) the main problem when some biracials and parents of biracials enforce the odr also.
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I think because Mariah does black music and hangs with a lot of blacks… blacks have managed to brainwash her and i feel that she was able to be brainwashed because she was very conflicted over being biracial in the first place,
Mariah is as old as sin I doubt that blacks have all of a sudden brainwashed her. If you people have such a problem with black people then why dont you man up or woman up and confront them in real life instead of complaining about over the internet.
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@RDKirk
Before you condemn them, find out why they’ve made the choice they made.
Oh, I’m not condemning them. I am, however, pointing out that this issue stretches far beyond race, so I’m not so sure it’s as simple as “In the past we did this, now we do that”. Americans, in general, seem to see the world in exclusivist, essentialist and determinist terms. They seem to have an alergic reaction to ambiguity and indefinition. Things no be this OR that: never both or neither.
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>>First of all I really dont give a damn about how biracials as a whole veiw themselves. But if someone in my family or in my space is calling themself black when they are not then be prepared for correction. If they dont like what I say then stay the hell away from me. <<
Hmm. You don't give a damn…yet they have to be prepared for "correction" from you. And if they don't like it, they have to stay away from you (I'm going to presume they didn't ask your opinion in the first place).
I suspect that little girls and young women growing up in the US, having to deal with the social control mechanisms of girls on the playground and young women in junior and high school probably learned very quickly that unless they were to be loners (which is very hard on girls) they had to "declare" one team or another.
You evidently don't realize those dynamics. I've got a light-skinned daughter, and I saw what she went through. In her case, it was being light-skinned and having spent her early years in overseas where she never learned the basic inter-racial dynamics in the US.
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“I think the problem isn’t the “one drop rule”, it’s the overwhelming American ideology that identity is a homogenous and unified thing – i.e. that one can “only” be black or bi-racial.
People, of course, can be black, white AND biracial. It all depends on context.”
Academic research indicates that the multiracial experience is often contextual in this way. In fact, it seems to be for Mariah as well. She said in an interview that she changes her appearance and style in order to appeal to different markets. Sometimes she’s black. Other times she’s more white. She even presents herself as Latina. The recent black schtick may all be a part of this. I bet in her next Barbara Walters interview she’ll go back to being mixed.
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Hmm. You don’t give a damn…yet they have to be prepared for “correction” from you. And if they don’t like it, they have to stay away from you (I’m going to presume they didn’t ask your opinion in the first place).
I dont give a damn about biracials that I dont know. As far as me correcting mixed up family members/ inlaws I can and I will. If they dont like it they know where to go. No they didnt ask me and dont like it but I gave them my opinion anyway and will continue to do so. Didnt I tell you to not respond to me.
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[Nods to FG]
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Rumors that Mariah Carey might be pregnant is spreading. I hope she and Nick will have a family soon. Im so glad for you both.
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This article has characteristics similar to some of the other articles and comments on very mixed people. There seems to be an obsession with whether mixed people are regarded as “black” with an implicit preference that they are seen as such. There is also suspicion that mixed people are trying to be percieved as white or at least non-black. It’s strange that Mariah dying her hair blonde would be regarded as her trying to distance herself from blacks since according to this website being black has nothing to do with phenotype. There are in fact quite a few mixed people with naturally blonde hair.
As with the Anatole Broyard article, what is lost is (1) Mariah’s talent and success and (2) her struggles with being racially ambiguous in a society dominated by people of relatively “pure” racial background (for background check out numerous Mariah songs like Outside, Through the Rain, etc). In fact, as with the other articles on mixed people, there is an attempt to claimt that their success and fame is due to being percieved as at least part white rather than their actual talent, beauty, intelligence, etc.
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@Laromana – you are correct. people label Hispanics/Latinos mixed with white or Asian as just Hispanic, but if they are mixed with black, then they are somehow not allowed to call themselves just Hispanic/Latino. I have a friend like this. what’s crazy is most of this foolishness comes from the black people she encounters. they bitch and moan against the “one drop rule”, and subconsciously live by it and expect everyone else to as well.
personally it is none of my business how Mariah identifies, but i don’t understand why she would leave off the 3/4 of what she is just to identify with the 1/4 or less that she says she is. like one poster said, most black Americans have some European ancestry due to slavery (some call it the “rape gene”), should those blacks consider themselves white because of that 1/4 or less?? seriously.
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Everything I ever read about Mariah, including the time when she came out with Vision of Love, she identified herself as Black. I don’t understand why people always feel the need to project THEIR issues, racial or otherwise, on female celebrities.
I LOVE Mariah and wish her all the best. She and Nick make a lovely couple. And I wish their growing family well.
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I don’t get what all the controversy is about. She is a woman of OBVIOUS mixed ancestry that considers herself Black. What about that is worth getting upset over? Lol I think biracial people(black-white kind) should start their own independent race, so we can skip over conversations like these. Save ppl from the confusion.
Maybe we should shorten the term mulatto to Mulatt or Mula. Give it a 21st cent. upgrade, so it sounds less archaic and more PC. Just like how we went from Negroes to Blacks 🙂 lol
Another strange thing I noticed. A lot of people are saying that she is only a quarter black, but then go on to call her biracial -__-. Don’t you guys understand that, by doing that, you are still following the one drop rule? Why not declare her white? Are Obama’s daughters mixed and not black???
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“Another strange thing I noticed. A lot of people are saying that she is only a quarter black, but then go on to call her biracial -__-. Don’t you guys understand that, by doing that, you are still following the one drop rule? Why not declare her white? Are Obama’s daughters mixed and not black???”
This is what Wikipedia refers to as the “preponderance of ancestry” rule, i.e. your race is determined by where the majority of your ancestors came from. I think it makes more sense than the one drop rule. Surely most people relate better to those who resemble them and share similar social experiences, so white society is often the best fit for predominantly white mixed people. Of course there is some complexity involved. A person could be over half white genetically but still be visibly part African and thus unlikely to be socially accepted as white. However, among the younger cohorts, mixed people who can at least pass for Mediterranean often are regarded as white
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I think that the problem is in precedent. Whites enforced the One drop rule” for so long, that it has become a institution that will take time to change. Whites simply did not accept “Quadroons” into White society, especially as equals to themselves. After centuries of this custom, people who have one Black grandparent and thee White grandparents are still considered to be Black because they were not wanted by Whites.
This custom of categorization will probably change as time goes on. The edifice of Whiteness itself is beginning to change in definition. I doubt if the current “Black” and “White” racial categories will hold in the future. Race is going to become a lot fuzzier for everybody.
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After centuries of this custom, people who have one Black grandparent and thee White grandparents are still considered to be Black because they were not wanted by Whites.
@King, I don’t think this is accurate. While white (Americans) invented ODR, it’s mainly African Americans who’re applying it in 2011.
Over the past years, Mariah has been determined to prove how black she is, likely for professional purposes. There are many biracial people who identify as black, professionally, since white mainstream society is more comfortable dealing with biracials than seemingly “pure blacks.”
Outside of the U.S., including Europe, Mariah Carey, Wenthworth Miller, Jason Kidd, etc are all considered WHITE. (in fact, it’s only African Americans I hear referring to these people as black). Now, I understand someone like Halle Berry or Barack Obama identifying as black, because they look predominantly so. Kimora Lee Simmons, Wentworth Miller, etc, not so much.
Mixed race individuals should identify with both of their heritage, since it makes the most sense.
Now, don’t get me started on Halle Berry calling her daughter Nahla Aubrey (likely 80% European) black.
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@Mel
I seriously do not get those who refer to the Rashida Jones’ & Derek Jeter’s of the world as Black. However, white-looking biracial peeps are pretty rare. From my experience a significant portion(let’s jus say aroun 45%) look like light skin Blacks(Halle Berry, Boris Kodjoe) and then most of the rest look intermediate/obviously mixed(Herold Ford Jr, Lisa Bonet, Alicia Keys, Noemie Lenoir<–the 1st may be predom blk. Having trouble thinkin up male equivalents) or racially ambiguousness(Leona Lewis).
Bc of their rarity I have not actually met the Black nuts who think someone w/ predom. white phenotype is just Blk. I’ve only seen this on the internet and I can say these ppl who take ODR too far tend to be black. However, the point I am trying to make is that I believe these folks are in the minority. Maybe not in Mariah’s case(this is silly, but my theory is her music/voice/demeanor make her seem blacker than she is), but if we took a poll I do not believe most Blks would say someone like Derek Jeter is Blk. Though, I do think more blks than whites would vote that way.
Anyways back to my point. The majority of white ppl go along w/ the ODR for the light skin blacks & intermediate biracial folks, so we aren’t the only ones to blame. Blks may be more likely to take it too far, but those folks are in the minority. Ppl w/ 3 white grandparents & biracials who look this way aren’t considered Blk by most Americans.
*I rambled A LOT. Thoughts all over the place. Hope you understand my main point, which is basically the last paragraph.
*I may be wrong. This is all based off things I’ve experienced and I cannot see/hear everything.
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Mel I said that because of the long custom of Whites, using the one drop rule, African Americans have picked it up as well. You cannot think that to e inaccurate.
As far as Whites today go, certainly mixed celebrities can be White from a distance, but if person of mixed young man is starting to get serious with your daughter, then the guy is instantly BLACK. It all depends on how much it effects the White person in question.
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“As far as Whites today go, certainly mixed celebrities can be White from a distance, but if person of mixed young man is starting to get serious with your daughter, then the guy is instantly BLACK. It all depends on how much it effects the White person in question.”
White racialists did pass laws in the early 20th century (and overturned in the ’60s) defining light-complexioned mixed people as legally black. However, I don’t think white people have ever harshly discriminated against the Mariah Carey-types on a large scale.
For instance, Thomas Jefferson was a slaveowner and one of the leading promoters of doctrines of racial inequality in 18th century America. Nevertheless, he apparently carried on a long-running marriage-like relationship with quadroon Sally Hemings that bore multiple offspring.
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@ FG
Well, that’s with the proviso that they kept their place, and didn’t try to pass for White (and officially marry into their families as equals).
The great fear with the Mariah Carey type was that they might be able to surreptitiously pollute one’s bloodline.
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“Bc of their rarity I have not actually met the Black nuts who think someone w/ predom. white phenotype is just Blk. I’ve only seen this on the internet and I can say these ppl who take ODR too far tend to be black. However, the point I am trying to make is that I believe these folks are in the minority. Maybe not in Mariah’s case(this is silly, but my theory is her music/voice/demeanor make her seem blacker than she is),…”
I have to say that I much prefer her material from the early- to mid-90s. I wouldn’t attach a racial label ( “white”) to this music, though.
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If Mariah Carey was not famous and some scientist was showing pictures to test subjects and asking thier opinion of her race, what would more people say? I think the consensus would be that she is white and hispanic mix. I don’t see one black feature on her.
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@ La Reyna
for the record, Prince is fully black. He’s just light-skinned. Google his parents (John L. Nelson and Mattie Shaw) and see for yourself. He never corrected the misappropriation because it was good for business to be considered exotic.
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Not sure if anyone else noticed, but the second picture (with the father) is not Mariah but her sister Alison.
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I’m a bit tickled by how many people assumed Mariah Carey was simply “a white girl who could sing”. She is very obviously a fair-skinned Black girl. I remember her from the very beginning of her career, pre-surgery, but even after all of that, she was still very obviously a fair-skinned Black woman. I suppose it’s true what they say, we tend to recognize each other.
Btw, Prince is a Black man, and both of his parents are Black. The US is a country in which every Black person who is native to the Americas including the US is of mixed race. So all of these exotic labels are meaningless.
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“The US is a country in which every Black person who is native to the Americas including the US is of mixed race. So all of these exotic labels are meaningless.”
Aside from Latinos, few Americans are as mixed race as Mariah. Not knowing her social background, most would probably think she’s more likely to be from some place like Rio De Janeiro than Harlem or Southside Chicago.
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Correct me if I”m wrong but inregards to how latina/hispanic is used in the US at least; isn’t it pointless to argue if she is either that or mixed race because they just different words for the same thing? I mean the general assumption is that it includes spanish in there +native blood+whatever else happens to compose the individual? Once you have native/spanish isn’t that all thats required?
To say that since someone has black in them they can only identify as black would mean that we would pretty much have to call almost all latino’s/hispanics black because most have “some” amount if sparse in them.
Regarding Mariah’s self identification changing; I hear thats a common thing with multiracials; they blend in with whatever group they are with at the time, regardless of their own personal ancestory to that group. Saw a thing once about a teacher who had automatically started picking up attributes/ways of acting with this asian couple she was talking to and wasn’t even aware of it till the students who were with her pointed it out to her.
As a youth I assumed she was mostly black; it was obvious looking at her she had something else there but I would have went with black being her major racial inheritance, which I guess going by her music and who she married it arguably is.
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Abagond:
Mariah Carey is 1/3 black. If she was half-black, maybe she could get away with identifying herself as a black female. What annoys me about the biracial class, is the hypocrisy. Black love and loyalty are outdated, but, colorblindness is promoted as the best thing since blank? If they don’t see color, why do they continue whining about the “One Drop Rule?” If real black people choose to see them as biracial rather than black, What are they crying about? Blackness is 24/7…365…It’s not a convenience that can be put in a drawer, taken out of a drawer, put back in, etc.
Tyrone
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I knew Mariah was part black the moment I saw her. She is not white enough looking to pass as a white woman. At least not here. To say that she is a black woman who is very light-skinned or a white girl that can sing or even a Latina or African-American of mixed race are all accurate descriptions of her in my mind. The most accurate of course is that she is a woman of color, however you want to look at it and a very talented person.
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I ´m Brazilian and i´m “white” latino, but my father granphas was black(Mulato) and my granpha is brown mixed of italian and amerindian but i look european ,i´m descent of portuguese italian spanish amerindian and black, but i look white i lived in usa for a couple of years and people think that im american but i´m mixed , sorry about my english i know thats terrible haha.
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I’m white and not ashamed to admit that I’m proud of that fact. I have nothing against anyone because of their ethnicity; one doesn’t choose his parents. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to see the White race preserved. It saddens me whenever I see an example of White blood being diluted. Support diversity and mate within your own race.
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To be honest Mariah Carey’s hair color now is most similar to that childhood picture of herself.
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Only in America you have the awkward habit of considering people black only cause they’ve got SOME black in them.
Black my ass, Mariah ain’t black! She can say she has SOME black in her, but she can’t walk around saying she is black cause that sounds plain stupid coming from a naturally blonde, pale woman with soft curls.
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@ Phaecat, why is it when black people seek to identify and celebrate or at least promote awareness of black people throughout the diaspora it is taken as some sort of affront to u white people, how is Agabond promoting racism by discussing Mariah Carey’s “blackness”? Newsflash , Elvis and Jesus were black too, I guess that should send u into a tailspin..lol.
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The white race’s “rules” regarding race and ethnology are subjective at best. Mariah Carey couldn’t possibly be black because she is beautiful rich talentes and desirable, huh? her daddy is black and according to ur “one drop rule” she is black. There are plenty of other “black” americans with one black parent., Biggie Small’s wife Faith Evan’s comes to mind, and I have never heard of a single white person coming to save her from her inherent “blackness” lol..Reminds me of the racial draft on Chapelle Show.
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I remember when one of The White race’s favorite sports was “outing” black people who were passing as “white”. They didn’t consider “mulattoes” white then and they sure as hell don’t now. All u bi-racial people are being used by the white race to promote an agenda in the final analysis that will not include U. Good luck with that. I listen very carefully to what white people say and think , cause lets face it, I find whites amusing. I worked with a white man a few years back and our supervisor was an hispanic woman who of course had dyed blond hair and was dumb enough to believe she had been hired in a supervisory capacity for her “skill” and not her compromised status with the higher-ups knowing she would fight like a rabid dog to oppress any non-white including her fellow hispanics. Well anyway my white male co-worker , after going a couple of rounds with her leans into me and says, “I refuse to take crap from a woman who can’t even spell.” and “Anyway, she thinks she’s white”..lol.
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@ Lara..Some of my best friends are white..
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@ Tyrone…I see your point and I agree somewhat, but I also take issue with some of what you say.
First, there is no “biracial class”. Yes, there once was a “mulatto elite” but not anymore. As a person of mixed race, I’m confounded by some of the things I hear about biracial/multiracial people because most of it is pure fallacy. People of mixed race come from all walks of life. We aren’t all seeking to oppress Black people or deny who we are.
I believe that most mixed people do acknowledge their Blackness (I know I do) but of the ones who identify as biracial, please know that this isn’t typically out of self-hate. It is because the “one drop rule” is racist and antiquated. Think about it…the whole concept was created by whites who believed that African blood had the power to contaminate. Most people of mixed race do identify as black, but they also want the other sides of themselves acknowledged.
Personally, I’ve struggled with being accepted by most Black people my whole life. I’m lighter than Mariah Carey and with the exception of my frizzy/curly hair, I can pass for white about 95% of the time. So that puts me in an interesting position. This is just me being honest. But I have also been discriminated against by white people and others.
There seem to be issues on both sides. Yes, there are definitely some mixed folks who are either ashamed of their black blood or who only acknowledge it when it is convenient. But I would say that the majority of us embrace it. At the same time, some Black people seem to think it is a sin if a biracial person actually acknowledges that they are of mixed race. What if the person looks completely (or mostly) white or something other than black? No, they shouldn’t deny their black heritage but there is a reason they look the way they do. And if they have a non-black parent or even a non-black grandparent, there is no reason they shouldn’t be able to acknowledge that in addition to their black heritage.
See what I mean? It’s about acknowledging both or ALL sides of one’s heritage…not denying one or the other.
One can identify with both sides and still care primarily about Black issues, Black people, etc.
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Though Mariah Carey isn’t considered a mestizo, it’s kind of funny how Latino mestizos aren’t (not yet anyway) embraced as white by many white Americans, yet there are loads and loads of non-Latin mestizos who are readily accepted as white: Johnny Depp, Cher, Loretta Lyn, Crystal Gayle, Jessica Biel, Megan Fox, Val Kilmer, Charisma Carpenter–are just a few examples of famous whites of known Amerindian ancestry (Shannon Doherty appears to be part Native, so did Patrick Swayze, RIP). Not sure how most people view Wayne Newton, but he’s at least half Native American through both his parents.
It’s not only celebrities either. I’ve seen a good many people online who state outright that they are white, but who then go onto to give a fractional breakdown of their heritage, which often ends with “…and 1/8 Cherokee”. Also, the Southeast if full of partially Amerindian descended white folk. Do “Anglo” mestizos criminals artificially inflate white crime rate stats or is it only to the Spanish speaking ones who do that?
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.
.
Mariah Carey is MIXED-RACE
– she is NOT Black-Race.
.
NEITHER of her parents were even Black people –
her mom is White and her dad was BI-RACIAL (his
dad was Latino and of ‘Venezuelan’ Ethnicity and
his mom was of the ‘African-American’ Ethnicity).
.
Mixed-Race is Mixed-Race and Black-Race is Black-Race.
.
The racist ‘One-Drop Rule’ (ODR) was made ILLEGAL by the
United States Supreme Court way back in 1967 (‘Loving v. VA’)
… and a NON-Racist person should NEVER believe in, support
or tolerate anything as vile as the racist, reeking, odious ODR
— NOT EVEN in the name of so-called racial “pride” or “unity”.
.
.
The activated Links — located in the ‘About’ section of
the YouTube Channel attached to the link found below
– provide great information on the topic of being
of ‘Mixed-Race in the United States of America.’
.
http://www.youtube.com/user/apgifts
.
– Allpeople (AP) Gifts
(email: soaptalk AT hotmail.com DOT com)
.
.
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Mariah Carey’s father is a black man who happens to have been born in Venezuela.. Being born in a “Latin” nation does not make him any less black. Have you been to venezuela? There is a lot of black people there , no matter how the “media” racially classifies them. The “media” was racially classifying blacks in brazil as white too, But Black Brazilians got some pride about them and started asserting their “Blackness”.
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@ CinnamonDiva there is still a mulatto elite, Our President is a “mulatto”, the reigning,”most beautiful black woman in the world” is a mulatto.The most popular “black” actors, singers and musicians are mulatto. Hispanics, a classification that has nothing to do with race but actually refers to peoples who have been colonized and brainwashed by Spain and the Catholic Church are in effect a race of “mulattos” who , in the heirarchy of white supremacy ,reign over black people. They know this and I never met an hispanic who didn’t revel in it.Jessica Alba is a mulatto, yet in America because of her exalted bloodlines , she has been bestowed with white status, her double, with whom if u put the two together one could say they had been separated at birth is the Brazilian model and actress, Thais Araujo who is known as the first “Black” woman to star in her own show in Brazil, That would be the wildly popular,”Xica” . Thais Araujo is considered to be Black in Brazil and has documented how she missed out on many jobs because she was “black” JA Rogers in his book sex and race has discussed the ridiculous and inaccurate notions of black and white perpetrated by white ethnologists and anthropologists. Being black is not necessarily about “looking” black but more a connection to ur African race no matter how far removed u may be from it. Martin Lawrence used to say, “Sister u can always come home” and a lot of black people like Mariah are coming home.. Don’t hate.
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@deepdkchocolate
When people say there is no Mulatto classification in America, I’m fairly certain they are referring to people considering Mulattos not as a separate race, but “light-skinned Blacks”.
Remember who invented the One-Drop Rule and why. That doesn’t mean Mixed Race people can’t be down with the cause. It just means they fall under a separate racial classification. And I’d like to add that 100% blooded African people would tend to agree.
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I don’t agree according to the dictates if the white power structure the one-drop rule meant one drop of black blood=black. Now for political reasons and because whites are dying out and need our DNA they are re-classifying black people as white at alarming rates. And Black people who have a serious incapacity when it comes to logically thinking things out, tend to go along with the whims of white people. Like yesterday one black parent and white parent means ur black , today one black parent and one white parent means ur “bi-racial.” Question , why is it only when people are mixed with black they become non-racial as in “bi-racial”? which means u r basically neither nor both? This strange classification does not apply to whites mixed with asian or latino or native-american..Think about it..
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It was white mothers of half Black children who conjured up the term ‘biracial’ as a way combating their children’s automatic classification as Black only. That’s probably the reason why ‘biracial’ is used nowadays mostly to describe children who are half Black and half white, and not so much for other mixes. “Hapa”, a Native Hawaiian word, is often used to describe children who are half Asian.
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Bulanik,
You are certainly correct, there is an array of terms used throughout the globe to describe specific racial blends, however, I was speaking of terms in common usage in the US. “Hapa”, seems more widely used than ‘Eurasian’ and I personally have only heard/seen it used for half white and half East Asian persons. In Hawaii itself it probably originally described individuals who were half Native Hawaiian and half white/other. I rarely see/hear ‘Amerasian’, (I’ve only seen it used for the mixed race children fathered and left behind in Viet Nam by American soldier, whether Black or white). ‘Blasian’ is sometimes used in the US for half Black/half East Asian mixes.
‘Asian’ in the US almost always means East Asian, especially NE Asian. My understanding is that it was/is at the insistence of East Asians themselves that they simply be called Asian or Asian-American in place of the term ‘Oriental’, a term which seemed to have fallen out of favor at some point during the last twenty years or so.
I know of the of terms ‘Anglo-Indian’, ‘Burgher’, ‘cabolco’, ‘castizo’, and ‘metisse’, as well as others, from my readings, but none of these words are in common usage in the US.
Rather than a designated appellation, most mixed race people here are simply referred to as “mixed with _ and_” or described as “half _and half _”.
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The term “bi-racial” is quite confusing…
I think it is those who consider themselves “bi-racial” a couple of years back were pushing for more options on applications that asked to specify one’s ethnic make-up…
Most of the kids i grew up with that had one black and one white parent always classified themselves as black and married other black people. They didn’t seem to agonize over not having their “whiteness” recognized, yet this was the early 90s to early 2000s.
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I have always thought that the one drop rule gives black people an advantage…i can’t really explain why though.
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Well, of course there have always been names to designate bi-racial or multi-racial peoples. Americans who were half-black or half-white were called “Mulattos” americans who were an eighth- black ,”octoroons. people mostly women were designated as “eurasian”. The term bi-racial was cooked up by the media in recent years initially, in North America, mulatto children were born of illicit romances between white man and black women, never was the term “Bi-racial” proffered to these black women as a racial assignation for their children. In the latter part of the 20th century as anti-miscegenation social morays and laws eased and miscegenation has been ENCOURAGED between white women and black men the term “bi-racial” was proferred to white women who felt and feel that though they had a child with a black man their child was somehow different or “better” than regular negros born of black women. It is a term used for white womens mulatto children and it is actually becoming a “class” because most black children being raised by white women are raised to “hate” the black part of themselves and “embrace” the whiteness in them, which is creating a whole new pathology in America , as only whites can create.
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George Lopez DNA test reflected he was 55% european? That is farcical and u know that is total B.S. George Lopez does not appear to be european by any stretch of the imagination. The White race is out of control with their agenda to whiten damn near everyone. Name one place in europe where whites look like George Lopez. Most Mexicans carry large strains of african blood as twice as many africans were trafficked to mexico than all of north america during the slave trade and were completely absorbed by the mexican people.. I mean, c’mon.
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Just wondering….why do you think that said white women will knowingly procreate with black men if the probability of them having brown babies is high?
She is with a monoracial black man; yet monoracial black kids are inferior.
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Bulanik
“Fiamma. I see, and thank you for contextualizing.”
– – –
You’re very welcome, Bulanik.
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Monoracial black kids are inferior? I know U do not feel that way,Phoebeprunelle, do U? R they really inferior? lol..I read a native american present a theory that white women have a desire to escape their “whiteness” and would rather have children that are non-white as the probability of them growing up to be blood-thirsty psychopaths would be greatly diminished. Interesting theory. There is also a speech being circulated that is attributed to P.W. Botha stating that a genetic war has been declared on Blacks and that there are sexual soldiers who are programmed to infiltrate the ranks of the licentious blacks using sex as a weapon so that they can bring forth “racially confused” children who would ally themselves with the white race. That is believable when u look at the current state of affairs with white mothers and their bi-racial progeny. I also feel since white women are constantly competing with black women on every level , they really feel they could and will be better at raising “black” children than we black women are and let’s face it many white women are enamored of black children with many of the european nobility having adopted black children and making them their legitimate heirs, The Duchess of Alba notably did adopt an unmixed black child and made her a legitimate Heir. My mother swears Jessica Alba is one of her descendants. And what is with all of white hollywood adopting black children? Agabond needs to create a thread about that. Or we could say very simply, that whites wish to be black and since they cannot achieve that through tanning they can achieve it genetically by pro-creating and bringing forth black progeny.
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Nope. But that thinking does remind me of that ridiculous study where they tried to prove that kids born of a WW/BM marriage were more intelligent than kids born of a BW/WM marriage, but overall they concluded that the “mixed” raced kids were more intelligent than monoracial black kids…
I have always wondered what the fascination is with children of color for these celebrities…most times when i ask, people tell me to mind my own damned business, lol.
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Regarding whites celebrities making a show of adopting African children: I think they view themselves as martyrs who are on an African rescue mission. However from the way it all actually comes off, all they really want is to make themselves look saintly in the public eye — Madonna, most especially. She has been a self-absorbed celebrity for around 30 years, yet, when a newcomer like Angelina Jolie adopts an African child, Madonna herself all of a sudden gets the bright idea to go to Africa to get herself an African kid too….
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@ Phoebeprunelle, r u serious? Did they really do a study trying to prove that? I hadn’t heard ..Wow.If u ever come across this study, let me know , I would love to read that..And of course the findings would be that mixed-race kids would be smarter then mono-racial black children..lol. Whites have an entire media campaign prompting black people to deracinate ourselves, here’s why. Whites have no melanin and w/o melanin many things like reproduction are becoming very difficult for whites, with white media asserting that by 2030 whites will be a minority in this world.. Newsflash, they already are a minority, hence “re-classification” of many non-whites and blacks as “white”.There is a far more sinister reason why white celebrities are adopting black children and having twins at record rates, believe me on that one. Not exactly sure what it is yet, but am working on it. For some reason, I really believe David Banda,(Madonna’s “adopted african son”) is really her biological child. She harvested some eggs, she pulled some genetic strings and made this kid.The kid looks like her other kid, Rocco.But that is a theory, scoff if u must.When I heard Charlize Theron adopted a child,U didn’t see the child for several weeks, I just knew the little guy was black. They are all adopting unmixed, darker brown baby BOYS.There is a reason for that, just not really sure what it is yet…
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@ deepdkchocolate…I agree with all of that to some extent and you put it very well. But “don’t hate”? Really? Who is hating? That was kind of unnecessary.
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@ Fiamma…I agree 100% with what you said about white celebrities adopting Black children.
Yes, I often give them the side-eye too because you really have to wonder if they’re being sincere or if it is indeed a way to make themselves look better. Like you said, martyrs on a rescue mission.
I won’t deny that I also feel the same way when I see some white people adopting Asian kids.
I know a white woman who adopted some Black American kids as a way to show how “open-minded” she is, but she has a lot of racist attitudes toward people of color in general.
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@phoebeprunelle…it’s funny you should mention that study with its bogus claims about mixed-race people being more intelligent. I hadn’t thought of that.
But I didn’t know that the study claimed that mixed kids were smarter than kids with two Black parents. I thought it claimed that mixed kids were smarter than kids who weren’t mixed, period…this includes white kids. And they said that biracial kids from a white mother and black father were smarter than those from black mothers and white fathers? Wow.
Not to derail or venture off topic, but I wonder if this is because although there is still somewhat of a taboo around interracial relationships, the WW/BM relationship is generally more accepted than the other way around?
You’ve given me some food for thought…
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@ Cinnamondiva, I just think it is weird that a lot of folk here are identifying Mariah as a Latina.. I have never heard Mariah self-identify as a Latina.Ever. She has always alluded to being black and in the film Glitter, she told it as it was, one of her parents was black, in the film that would have been her Mother. She was called the N- word frequently as she was growing up in Long Island, NY. Noone thought she was White or Latina then… She was not getting a pass for being mixed-race or bi-racial..Now all of a sudden she is Latina? No, she is not.And the problem with many hispanics u not only identify with other hispanics based on culture and anguage, u tend to identify with people u feel “look” hispanic , in this case, Mariah Carey. I don’t understand how people have the right to tell other people who they are and who they couldn’t possibly be.. If she has a black parent and has had experiences in her life as a BLACK WOMAN, then she’s black. Or whatever she wants to call herself. Please don’t take the “Don’t Hate” personally but hispanics and whites have no claim on Mariah , u r not remotely familiar with her experience in America as a woman of color , so..
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@CinnamonD and Deep
I can’t find the rest but here is a start:
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Thanks phoebeprunelle, that is a very interesting bit of propoganda..
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Alfred Roy Carey (Nunez) father is Latino Roberto Numez came to US and changed his name (he look black & spanish) married a black american woman. Alfred Carey is Latino mix with more black blood but the mixture is still there even though Alfred looks black. Mariah mom is Irish (white) Mariah Carey is Black and white mix with a little Venezuelan. She marries a black american (mix in his background look at his mom) the twins are a product of mixture Mariah Carey Spanish and Irish blood hit the twins hard cuz the son looks mix black but not full black and Monroe looks Latina no black at all.
I am Mexican and French Creole and I married a Puerto Rican our son looks Mexican and our daughter looks very Spanish its weird cuz I look like Beyonce and Jlo and my husband looks like Jon B lol…and our kids came out different but more Latino looking cuz the Latino blood is strong.
I know we Latinos (mexican, salvadorian, guatamala, puerto rican etc) are mix some black or a pinch of black or no black it depends. Latinos are Spanish and Native (Indian) and through the years german, chinesse, and black blood came into part.
Different between Black Americans and Afro Latinos:
Afro Latino looks different mix wise, Spanish only, Spanish food, spanish music, upbringing different latino, and where they were born.
Black Americans look black and if they are mix they come different shades, speak englis only, southern food (fried chicken, corn bread, chitlins, pig feet), gospel music, soulful oldies, upbringing southern style, and they were born in USA.
White-Spanish, Fench, German etc… (Latinos are white according to America regardless of color look at the census)
Asian- Chinese, Japanese, philipino etc…
Black-African American
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I feel if Mariah Carey wants to be Black Monday, White Tuesday, Latina Wednesday thats her business. She looks like a French Creole to me they can pass for white but there something that is different about them and BAM (Black & Latino blood is what makes her look different) she can pass for Itlian she does not look mix black like Halle Berry, A.Keys, Beyonce, etc…if everyone takes a DNA test you will know everyone is mix period. George Lopez 55% White ( I can believe that he is Mexican he carries Spanish blood) Indian blood he is dark like a Native American and the small percentage of black is not a shock b/c blacks were in Mexico too. Some part of Mexico accepted Africans in the country like LaPaz but some didnt b/c they did not want to mix those are the Mexicans that can pass for white (white skin, blonde hair, and color eyes) Sinaloa, Mexico.
Whites (Spanish, German, Brisitish, etc) brainwash blacks and brown. Dark is ugly, mix is pretty, and white is btful. Nappy hair is ugly, curly hair is cute, and straight long hair is btful. White people think they are great looking but I say stop and think putting a white and indian was btful then adding black it was more better put three races black,indian, and white the woman were different. Creole, Mulattoes, Quadroon etc…white men would melt over them. I think no one is pure these day and age but I feel everyone is btful black, red, brown, yellow or white. Color shouldnt matter but its sad to say it still does.
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@ reinacreole, interesting points but what a lot of people are not aware of is that most of south and central america had very relaxed laws in regards to miscegenation. In North America laws against miscegenation were very stringent and inter-marriage between Blacks and Whites was taboo. In Latin America it was legal . Writers who chronicled this phenomenon are Colombian writer Gabriel Garcia Garcia Marquez and Peruvian writer Mario Vargas-Llosa, in one of his books, “Time of the hero” one of the protagonists in the story , I believe his name is Jaguar( I haven’t read the book in years) who is white realizes that the only woman that can fulfill him is a dark-skinned black woman named Therese, I believe. It seems that he was running from this realisation the entire time and accepts it goes back to his old neighborhood to fine her and marries her.In Marquez’ book “One hundred years of solitude one of the protagonists, I forget his name , comes upon a young mulatress who is being prostituted by her Grandmother for burning down her house, he feels so sorry for her he makes a vow to marry this young mulatress to save her from her fate but when he goes to retrieve her he finds she is gone.
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It is also pretty obvious that before fame and plastic surgery, Mariah, like Alicia Keys and Beyonce had more “negroid” features wider noses , darker skin etc. Mariah had very “curly/kinky hair as many mulattoes tend to have So did Alicia and I remember Alicia as being very “pro-black” and wearing her hair in corn-braids. Well that all out the window know with all these female celebrities adopting a more “multi-racial” look since “blackness”, especially in women seems pretty offensive to the american masses with a lot of rage and hatred being heaped upon “black ” girls like Rihanna.
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most black people are mix race, mariah is fair skin, but i would classify her as black. because of her dominant features.and either way if she say she is not who cares. black people always get upset when people say they not black. as if we are seeking acceptance. just be black and proud
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@ deepdkchocolate…I hear you and I agree. Thanks for clarifying. But can you please explain what you mean by this: “whites and hispanics have no claim on mariah, u r not remotely familiar with her experience in America as a woman of color”.
That is somewhat unfair, because I am indeed a woman of color. I am neither white or a white-identified Latina (I have no Hispanic heritage that I know of, although living in Florida, I am often assumed to be Hispanic). I might be very light-skinned but I’m still a person of color. I have experienced discrimination all my life. So it is a bit unfair to say that I’m not remotely familiar with what women of color experience in America.
Maybe I misunderstood what you said and if so, I apologize. But that’s how it sounded to me.
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@ Cinnamondiva, I feel U and I recognize that as a woman of color U have experienced discrimination as a “woman of color” But being black in america means u r the recipient of discrimination from not only whites but a slew of non-whites including hispanics I have received more hateful racist behavior from hispanics and East Indians than whites. We Black people don’t have any friends here in the americas and are treated like dirt by our fellow blacks.I could go into greater detail but the black race specifically black women are hated by all.Black men who are encouraged to “miscegenate” will turn on Black women to show his alliance to his white or hispanic wife or girlfriends race. That is why I stated that U could not possibly now or feel Mariah’s pain.One day she is being treated as a “mixed-race” by someone who wants her, i.e. Tommy Mottola who forced her to be “White” was telling her she could not associate with “Blacks” like Sean Combs and Jermaine Dupri and when she displeased him she was cast our and I wouldn’t be surprised if he called her a “Dirty N”. Such is her plight as a BLACK WOMAN.
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Being a person of Haitian, Dominican, and Cuban descent, (mother is half “white” Cuban, and “black” Cuban: father is Haitian, and Dominican) I see my self as Caribbean, some say I am Hispanic, some say I am black. Mariah says that in the US she is considered black, she is married to a black man, and her children would be considered black.
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Let’s clarify the term LATINO once for all please . Davina and who might be interested : i’m sorry but i never met any Indian ( asian ) mix with spaniard that results in latino (let’s put in this way) I’m Brazilian i can tell exactly what’s latino is. Natives ( it can be south and central american indians) + spanish for a big chunk of latin America and also mix with african slaves in some of theses countries . In Brazil particularly the mix it will be portuguese + natives + african generally speaking. So basically it’s spanish or portuguese representing the european bit ( white ) the natives ( red ) and africans ( black ) so LATINO IT’S ALREADY MIX RACED. LATINO IT’S NOT A NATIONALITY PLEASE !!!! EUROPEAN IT MEANS A NATIONALITY OR IT MEANS PEOPLE FROM A CERTAIN CONTINENT? LATINO IT MEANS IN ANALOGY something as EAST EUROPEANS FOR EXAMPLE . We cannot say the whole american continent is latino for one reason :people from latin american it had originally the roots of the language from spain and portugal – because these europeans countries had their languages originated from latin( as well Italy and France) that’s makes the term LATINO ( the latin). Phew !!
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mariah carey your so cute when you were a liitle……i love you and your my idol……
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This is a very “interesting article”. However I think there are many flaws and hypocrisies in it. It seems to equate success with being “white”. Why do people have to categorize people, things, objects and music. It seems almost as if it is BLACK people reinforcing the very things that oppress and work against them such as colorism, racism, one droppism, low self esteem, self depreciation. If a label or record company trying to give one the most and best of anything and everything to jump start their career makes them “white” then I guess Whitney Houston is white. Whitney Houston was groomed for superstardom with Clive Davis backing and guiding her. Behind many of the greatest and top female artists of all time is often a great male figure that has groomed and guided and been the architect of their careers. Diana Ross’ immense success was due in great part to Berry Gordy. Celine Dion had her eventual future husband guiding her career. Also just like Mariah Carey, these are recording artists. Their music, voices and talent are what they are trying to sale, NOT their races or some narrow definitions or labels or categories of identity. Music is music period. Music has evolved so much you cannot put a category on it much these days and even such was the case for American popular music back in the 1980s and 1990s.
Whitney Houston for that matter has said in interviews that she has mixed ancestral heritage occasionally. But for the most part people were listening to Whitney and hearing Whitney for her talents and voice, not because they were trying to figure out her race. Mariah Carey seems to be unfairly harassed and dogged simply because she is white/light skinned and is at times praised for it or ostracized and ridiculed for it. And Mariah Carey has always done the music she wanted to do and has evolved gradually after each time. Her music was always full of soul, gospel influences and rhythm. I’m not getting how one can sound white or music can sound white. Music is music. They just didn’t want to have to address the issue of race or make that an issue because what does that have to do with talent and vocal ability.
And no, Mariah Carey continues to identify as a mixed race, NOT black. She REJECTS the one drop rule.
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I love Mariah Carey and I believe that she is a very beautiful and talented woman.
And she is mixed race not Black. I am glad she acknowledges her Black roots although she is half White.
@Maverick
I agree. I didn’t know Mariah was mixed until someone told me. I assumed that she was White for most of my life. I am 17 by the way. Either way, I love Mariah Carey.
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.
The stench of the racist ‘One-Drop Rule’ (ODR) was
‘cleared from the air’ of the United States (U.S.) way
back in 1967 when the U.S. Supreme Court (via the
‘Loving’ decision) decided that it was Unconstitutional
and also Banned any legal Enforcement of it in the U.S.
.
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4162
.
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/4187
.
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The Mariah racial phenomenon is an interesting one that shows how obsessed we are with defining ourselves and hence our value through skin colour. She’s pretty white looking because of her skin, and so am I. But every once and a while I’ll get a look from someone who does a double take at the frizzy dark hair, high forehead, high cheekbones and weird nose, a look that says, “What the heck are you?”. I’m mixed, but because the black aspect doesn’t show up in solid dark skin (I have lots of freckles and birthmarks), I’m not considered to be part black at first glance, and by many, not at all. It’s not an argument that I cannot win easily because I can’t fake being more dark, nor will I change my hair, so I let it go. People like me don’t fit either way: white people will think you’re weird looking and black people or those more obviously mulato will thing you’re certainly not black. Most people wouldn’t understand that it’s not about sides it’s about aspects. In these cases, like mine, you really have to find your own place.
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I knew Mariah was black by looking at her.(We know) Music is music and IF she were white the singing and writing ,speaks for itself. What do you have to say about Beyonce,who went from honey colored in pictures to lighter skin and blonder hair in her last cd and in commericals?( I thought Brittany Spears,had a new cd) .
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Deepdkchocolate said: All u bi-racial people are being used by the white race to promote an agenda in the final analysis that will not include U.
This is completely true. Look to South Africa and Louisiana in the old South.
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I’m Venezuelan. If people could come here they would understand Mariah’s Venezuelan background better. There are Venezuelans that don’t have any mix at all, who are either pure black, pure white, pure indigenous, pure middle-eastern, and lately…pure Asian. All of them, except the Asians, consider themselves LATIN/HISPANICS. Now, the vast majority of the people here are a mix of two of these races, but there are plenty no-mix ones.
So if a pure black Venezuelan goes to the US, he is racially black, but is LATIN. Same thing happens with the blue-eyed blond Venezuelans. I know a few in New York. They pass off as 100% White-Americans, until they hear some reggaeton and start to move.
Francisco Nuñez, Mariah’s grandfather, was from the Maracaibo region, where the majority is indigenous/white mix. Blacks are a minority is Maracaibo, so I find it VERY HARD for her grandfather to have been PURE black, especially in those days when no Venezuelan black would think of leaving the country. Her grandfather was half-black at the most. By the way, here is Venezuela, even though Hugo Chavez imported the term Afro-Venezuela (I think he copied the concept of hyphenating from you guys), for most people, race is irrelevant because so many people are mixed. Oh, and there is no government form or anything that asks you race. The same thing will happen in the US in 100 years. So yes, the US will eventually evolve and grow out of racism.
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She is only half black…
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Why does it matter? My daughter is mulatto. I’m white and father is black. I hope she does not grow to see race as an obstacle in life. She is beautiful she’s mine and as long as I am the person teaching her she grow to love her self. No matter what people think of you baby girl,what you think of yourself it’s the only thing that matters! Mama loves you Malachia!
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I love Mariah Carey I was listening to some of her music today. Iwent into my collection and play her all morning. Mimi is just everything.
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Maybe one day people’s ethnicity won’t matter. And we will just be human beings.
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Getbrid of white people and their value system based on color and that could be possible.
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If u look at Mariah’s parents in the pic above her father’s “blackness” cannot be disputed.
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Mariah Carey is Black, period. Black comes in all different shades (Light, Medium, Dark)
WATCH THIS VIDEO. VERY INTERESTING INDEED.
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How surprising another discussion, going on in public, soaked in black supremacy that is going unchallenged, for fear of delusional people playing the race card when they themselves are the racist hatemongers.
It’s scary how some people can be so stupid.
Now watch how some delusional black person is going to accuse me of being racist…
Yeah I said it.
@ FlyingHigh101
‘Mariah Carey is Black, period. Black comes in all different shades (Light, Medium, Dark)
WATCH THIS VIDEO. VERY INTERESTING INDEED.’
HAHAHA, are you serious?
It’s hilarious when people pull that one, it’s like saying ‘Mariah Carey is white, period. White comes in all different shades (Light, Medium, Dark)’
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@deepdkchocolate
‘If u look at Mariah’s parents in the pic above her father’s “blackness” cannot be disputed.’
That’s not true, he would be considered black because that would be his preponderance of ancestry, however his ‘blackness’ can easily be disputed, since you’re going by the aesthetic categorisation, he does not even lo that black. If you’ve ever seen a real black person straight from sub-Saharan Africa you’ll know what I’m talking about.
On the other hand,
If u look at Mariah’s parents in the pic above her mothers’s “whiteness” cannot be disputed.
However acknowledging that would be a dent in the black supremacy that you, deepdkchocolate, so evidently hold on to. Mariah is mixed race, regardless of what she considers herself, and regardless of what anyone thinks, she has both significant amounts of black and white ancestry, however more than half of her racial makeup is white. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
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Correction to my previous post
* since you’re going by the aesthetic categorisation, he does not even LOOK that black.
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She is a beautiful biracial woman and very talented too. I grew up listening to her music. As a woman of Caribbean/American descent, I don’t consider Mariah Carey to be Black. Mixed people(Black/White mixture and others mix with Black) are not Black GENETICALLY however according to the racist White AmeriKKKa’s standards they are Black. According to racist White AmeriKKKa, anyone mixed with Black is Black because they are ”tainted” with Black blood.
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Adeen, no one is black genetically. Race is not genetic.
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According to Abagond and supporters, most whites aren’t “white” because the Nordics they appears to worship are only a minority of the “white” population. Their ridiculous insistence that they could always detect the “tainted black blood” in Mariah Carey is just another example of Negro Aryanism – the idiotic insistence that the true “white” is both extremely Nordic and perfect. Needless to say, you only apply that ridiculous standard when you are trying to enforce or promote forced hypodescent and the “inferior black blood” myth. When it comes to Latinos and Arabs, most American blacks and pretend-blacks politely decide to be “blind” to even the most obvious signs of their “black blood” so as not to insult them.
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I’m mixed race – Caucasian and African American, family from the Dominican Republic. A Latinto/Hispanic country where there are many different races. I am not Latino/Hispanic yet, with family from the DR, people misconceive me as denying my Hispanic heritage. The point of the matter is – there are plenty of races that live in different nations. If an African American was born in China, he’s Chinese of African descent.
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*Correction – I meant to say “If person of African descent was born in China, he’s Chinese of African descent”.
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@Alexander
I am afraid that this is not how the Nationality law in China works.
China practices jus sanguinis not jus soli. In order for a person a person to be born Chinese, at least one of his parents must be a Chinese national at the time of his birth. If the person who was of African descent born in China had at least one parent that was a Chinese national, then he/she could legally claim Chinese nationality. Otherwise, no.
However, a person born in Africa to one or two parents that were Chinese nationals, then he/she CAN claim Chinese nationality.
China has very limited mechanisms for persons who did not have a Chinese national parent to become Chinese, including persons who are married to Chinese Nationals, or who have brothers/sisters who are Chinese nationals. They remain perpetual foreigners both socially and legally.
Some of African descent would remain non-Chinese in China even after 3,4, 5 generations unless he applied through the limited mechanisms and was actually granted citizenship.
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@Adeen Forgot to mentioned the racist black communities trying as well transform the mixed children in black children (has an group in Florida even retire the mixed children from their white parents(one or both)).
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brazilians are not considered as latinos.! plus brazilian isnt a damn race.!
also as an african american who probably have a little white admixture i will never aknowledge that cause you know why? that little white mixture came from RAPE! i doubt my ancestors wanted to be raped by their slave owners!. so all you african americans who have white blood due to rape mixing? do you think your ancestors would be happy about it?
its one thing to be proud to be of being mixed if it was love but when its due to your ancestors being rape then its not something to floss about
also mariah is not a black person. her MOTHER IS white meaning that she is biracial.
i know alot of biracial people and non of them call themselves black but they are proud to be part black! and part white.
shoutout to all black people and white people
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What’s the big deal about racism? Can’t we all just see ourselves as people?
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I find it to be commical when people make comments (presumably black women), such as “she was black until she became mainstream”, etc., etc…..WTF???!!! …When she first came on the scene, people thought she was white and wondered how she could sound black!!! …Accept it, when a mixed person is mixed, they don’t suddendly “become black”!! They are mixed, they were born that way and they will die that way!! She looks white and to this day, she still looks white…her hair was always light, even as a child…so just because it’s straighter, how does that make her look ‘more white’?? …Why is it that other non-black women can change their looks, like coloring their hair or cut or straightened or make it curly and no one is accusing them of trying to look different ethnically?! …Black people (especially black women) are obsessed with what mixed women do with their looks and their life…one might sense that this pre-occupation with mixed women, must come from some sort of jealousy! …Why do you care???!!! Really??!! Mariah doesn’t look black and to group her in with the typical black woman, is a disservice to black women in general…it forces them to compete with a white-looking woman!! …Don’t you see that?! What you should be doing is be content in your own beauty and focus on that.
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@ Mixed Girl
You must hate it when you’re called “Black”, right?
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Not “just black” huh? So I guess the only bi-racial people who become black are the ones who can’t pass say like Obama? Since Mariah could back in the day, she’s not “just black”. Ha.
Anyway, you do realize that most “just black” people are already racially mixed? That’s why you can find in the typical black family’s photo album pictures of relatives who range from ones that look whiter than Mariah Carey ever did to ones who are darker than Wesley Snipes ever will be. The implication/notion that racially mixed only means directly bi-racial is strange.
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@Average Bee,
Yeah the post screams that sentiment.
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@plain human
My word! Never in the 6000 years of human civilization has anyone made such a profound and novel statement! I tip my hat to you sir! /sarcasm
No. The world doesn’t work that way, and you have to accept that.
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@ Mixed girl
I’m “mixed,” and I have not found that BW are obsessed, or even remotely interested in what I do with my hair, looks, or life. It’s a fallacy when people say BW are flat-out jealous of mixed, Hispanic, or White women. I have not found that to be true. I have found that White women are generally far more hostile towards what they consider to be pretty Black and mixed Black girls.
Perhaps the only true conclusion is that both our experiences are true, but neither can be used to generalise an entire race of women.
Your feelings don’t come from having met every BW on earth, questioning, and documenting, how they feel about your physical appearance, and their interest in your life, it actually comes from having digested White supremacist doctrine. I heard a White woman say something very similar (and even more ridiculous given its context) just a few weeks ago, after a BW she had interacted with, accidentally made a mistake during the activity they were participating in. She felt that the BW must have done it on purpose, and concluded that it was because of her European hair texture, “which, naturally, envoked jealousy in the BW.” A whole race of people are not running around thinking about you, at all. The case is, that YOU, are running around thinking how much better you are because you’re closer to White, and further away from being. . . dun, dun, dun. . . Black.
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I just read your ridiculous comments based on mine–and I’m not surprised that it created a reaction from you who responded (and who will continue to–I guarantee)…it only goes to show you that the truth hurts. You can’t stand it when someone tells you the truth and if you all think that you insulted me or tried to “school me’ in some way…think again….You don’t think I haven’t been through the BS from so many AA black girls in my life up to now?! …You’re not saying anything that I haven’t heard and worse from the lot of you (And because everything someone tells you, you act like it’s referring to ALL of you by your ill-fated skill for ‘reading between the lines’ as so many of you tend to do)….
You don’t know me and you don’t even know how “white” I look or am…That is irrelevant…and furthermore, many of you always try to imply that mixed people like me are “ashamed of being black” or are “trying to be white”, simply because we’re closer to being white, which is indeed true, in my case, given my DNA percentages, but what you fail to understand, speaking for myself, is that I am not trying to look or be white, regardless of the fact that I am indeed mixed…not multigenerationally, nor do I have just 1 white grandparent or great grandparent, or great great grandparent, etc., etc., I actually do have one white parent and one racially mixed black parent–I have a whole lot of white & multi-racial/multi-cultural family members on BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMIILY TREE–so YES, I am indeed mixed and NOT JUST BLACK….so all your talking is coming from your own frustrations or insecurities of wanting to be white yourselves –with your lying to yourselves comments such as “All blacks (or African Americans) are mixed, etc., etc.,”…whereas, I am not trying to be…I AM.
I’m actually Latina…my first language is Spanish….YES…I KNOW ITS NOT A RACE…(because there always has to be a smartass with that answer, as though I don’t know)….but it’s a culture that I grew up in and how I do indeed identify–in this country or anywhere else around the world…In fact, I wasn’t even born in America–me and my family are from a Latin-Caribbean country–where infact, I am considered white (or Mulatta) there, so all your lip-smacking can be saved on someone else who you can try to brainwash or ‘guilt-trip’ into calling themselves black ONLY, because of the “One Drop Rule” …which, by the way, doesn’t even exist anymore and is no longer a valid rule, regardless of how many times you think it does exist or how many times you say it in your head or how many times you want to believe it (as you’re touting the very words of white supremist racists who created the term to make you lower than human and yet you continue to praise it without realizing that you’re insulting yourselves in the process–real smart…NOT!!!)….. It’s irrelevant to me….So save your insults for another fool…It won’t work on me…Been there, done that! …NEXT!!!
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Your nonsensical ranting gives you away more than anything. No need to read between the lines as it’s all right there. Of course you can’t answer the responses directly so you launch into another round of non-sequiturs. You tried a drive by posting and got smacked around so you’re back to try and regain some dignity. You failed.
Nobody is trying to guilt trip Mariah, who’s maternal side of the family kicked her white mother to the curb for getting with a black guy and who seems to be very happily married to a black guy. nor anybody else into anything.
Your hostility and ignorant comments about black women speak for themselves. What’s the matter snookums? All the racial mixing you’re bragging about and you still can’t pass? Darn those black women for pointing out the obvious. Though it isn’t surprising that your understanding of what constitutes racially mixed is simplistic and self serving it seems that you have permanent butthurt about sisters are calling you out about your nonsense. Oh well….
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@Mixed girl
If a White person used the n word, the Black community would not respond by saying “he/she’s not talking about me, I’ve got to read between the lines.” YOU are the one who has come to a blog that often deals with racism, with a large Black following, and made a generalisation about an entire group of people. In that sense, I do not understand your purpose or surprise. The post wasn’t about there being anything wrong with multiracial individuals identifying with all of their heritage, nor was a demonization of Eurocentric looking multiracial persons. The only thing that was noted was that Mariah has become less ethnic looking as time has gone on, which is a valid observation. Now, I say this all respectfully. I won’t go back and forth with this because it’s all pretty self explanatory.
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@Abagond
There’s actually a documentary about Mariah Carey called “Billion dollar babe” that explores this aspect of her life and career.
Her label actually orchestrated a spin for the public via the media, by blotting out her Blackness, and the fact that she grew up poor. They fabricated an elaborate story about her growing up by the beach, in a very middle class suburban world, the picturesque product of a White opera singer.
In the very beginning of her career, Mariah is mostly introduced as the tomb boy of her gang, with her Black male back up singers. In her first performances, she was doing Aretha Franklin covers. The label went to work cutting away at her as a contemporary soul singer (which is what she originally was), and giving her a more commercial, cross-over sound. This greatly upset her. Sony buried the aspect of her being the product of a Black man, growing up poor, sometimes homeless, and having a sister who became a drug addict and a prostitute. They went through pains, to present her physical image, her sound, and her upbringing as that of an idyllic White girl.
Part of the reason why Tommy and Mariah’s marriage ended, was because Mariah began to rebel against this, and openly connect with her Blackness. She began fighting for her desire to make more Black identified music, and began surrounding herself with her collaborators. . . Black male rappers. (Those wicked Black brutes.) Tommy wasn’t a racist, Mariah was very clear about that when defending him from such accusations during the Michael Jackson vs. Sony/Tommy drama, but because he was both her husband and the head of Sonny, and very much the driving force behind keeping up that formula of success that had worked for her up to that point (White washing), these issues ended up going home with them.
The documentary is available on youtube, under Billion dollar babe part 1, Billion dollar babe part 2, etc. I can’t watch it past part 1 from the UK on youtube, it won’t give me permission. But I saw it a few years ago. It addresses many of the issues covered in this post.
@Mixedgirl
When Mariah identified herself as point blank “Mixed race,” the Black community accepted and supported her. Recently, when she changed her mind and began identifying herself as point blank, “a Black woman,” the Black community accepted and supported her. So what you’re saying is very much irrelevant in this instance. I do believe that Abagond and other posters were just innocently observing the fact that the more she began identifying with being, point blank, “Black,” (in her own words), the more Eurocentric she has begun to look, via styling and cosmetic surgery. I don’t think this observation is malicious, it’s just stating the obvious.
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A quadroon. Most quadroons from white mothers have large features for some reason, totally different from the quadroons in New Orleans from French fathers and mulatto mothers
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@deepdkchocolate
‘If u look at Mariah’s parents in the pic above her father’s “blackness” cannot be disputed.’
That’s not true, he would be considered black because that would be his preponderance of ancestry, however his ‘blackness’ can easily be disputed, since you’re going by the aesthetic categorisation, he does not even lo that black. If you’ve ever seen a real black person straight from sub-Saharan Africa you’ll know what I’m talking about.
DDC: How can blackness be disputed? Oh yes, u must be white and y’all specialize in asking people to suspend reality and deny what their eyes see. Mariah’s father is black, that’s it. He may speak spanish or live in an hispanic nation but the man is clearly a negro, please stop.
On the other hand,
If u look at Mariah’s parents in the pic above her mothers’s “whiteness” cannot be disputed.
DDC: I could care less about her mother.
However acknowledging that would be a dent in the black supremacy that you, deepdkchocolate,
DDC: Black supremacy? Yeah Ok,
so evidently hold on to. Mariah is mixed race, regardless of what she considers herself, and regardless of what anyone thinks, she has both significant amounts of black and white ancestry, however more than half of her racial makeup is white. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
DDC:How is Mariah “more white ” if one of her parents is white and the other black? White people…lol.
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Mariah’s dad is 3/4 Black, and 1/4 Hispanic, while her mum is White Irish. Things do tend to get very complicated beyond the halfway point, but interestingly enough, if one is half Black, they’re usually considered Black. This mixed race concept is complicated when we consider the categorization of African Americans, most of which are somewhere between 30-20% White. What a tangled web we weave.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqfLVDIZcP8)
Mariah’s late father= 03:49-03:03:51
Mariahs paternal grandmother= 03:02-03:03 & 03:06
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“Hispanic” is not a race.
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“”Hispanic” is not a race” …Congratulations….Do you feel smarter now??!! lol 🙂 …Why don’t you yell it louder, maybe no one heard you….. lol 🙂
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Well, being that South Americans are usually a mixture of White, Indian and Black . . . 3/4 Black and 1/4 a (probable) mixture of White, Indian, and Black.
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@Mixed girl…
uhmmm is that you Biracial Tiffany?
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I find it quite telling when one claims to not be affected by certain comments but then displays a clear act of upset.
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I can’t confirm if those are exacts figures, but it sounds like it could be right anyway, but I will say that white, indian and black are pretty much the typical mixture of S Americans or most Latinos from Latin America.
You see…I never mind educating people that I am a mixture of all 3 and in my country, that is how I am viewed, but the USA is so polarizing about race and they have an unhealthy preoccupation with it, especially it seems, when it involves “African-ness”…. Which, by the way, I never liked the term “African American”….I prefer, especially in my case, if you’re racially mixed, to be referred to as “Of African descent or ancestry” …not just “African American”, because that makes it seem as though you came from this country and speaking for myself, I didn’t…. plus, I’m not even classified as African American anyway, I’m just speaking in general terms.
After reading comments from some of the folks on this site, I simply laugh to myself, to see how angry or seemingly concerned you get about the things that I say. I don’t get upset if I’m called black, if I ever was called black though… I’ve always been viewed as some “mexican girl”, which isn’t exactly what I want to be seen as. I tried to assimilate to an entire elementary school of predominantly black kids when I was 10 years old living in Chicago for about 6 months. The children hated me with a passion because they wouldn’t accept me as one of them, no matter how many times I told them that I was partly black. I never wanted to be white or assimilate to white people because I always resented that they were viewed as the dominant race in this country, and yet, it’s mostly white people that cling to me. The only people that I prefer associating with are non-whites, predominantly people from my country, because I don’t have to try to be anything else but myself around them.
The purpose for my screen name of “Mixed Girl Who REALLY is Mixed…and not JUST BLACK!!!” is because of the “One Drop Rule” concept that so many of you continue to cling to in this country….I don’t feel comfortable calling myself black or white because it feels like a lie to me—even though I am both as well as Asian (Indian). But many of you believe that if someone is mixed with Black, that they are simply Black, no matter what, regardless of who they are culturally or how they appear phenotypically. I can see that the title really annoys many of you and I just have to laugh at that because it seems as though you are insulted by the phrase.
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^^^
*Correction to above comment (currently in moderation).
Mariah’s late father= 03:49—03:51
Mariah’s paternal grandmother= 03:03—03:03 & 03:06
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My bad A.D. Powell…i called you Biracial Tiffany.
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”Hispanic” is not a race” …Congratulations….Do you feel smarter now??!! lol 🙂 …Why don’t you yell it louder, maybe no one heard you….. lol 🙂
Ur pretty vapid aren’t u? I was actually correcting someone who stated that Mariah’s dad is black and hispanic, don;t know why u got ur panties in a bunch .Nor do I care.
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The purpose for my screen name of “Mixed Girl Who REALLY is Mixed…and not JUST BLACK!!!” is because of the “One Drop Rule” concept that so many of you continue to cling to in this country….I don’t feel comfortable calling myself black or white because it feels like a lie to me—even though I am both as well as Asian (Indian). But many of you believe that if someone is mixed with Black, that they are simply Black, no matter what, regardless of who they are culturally or how they appear phenotypically. I can see that the title really annoys many of you and I just have to laugh at that because it seems as though you are insulted by the phrase.
And we’re preoccupied with race? lol..I feel sorry for anyone who has to listen to U for more than 5 minutes.
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@mixed girl
If none of what these people say bother you then you would not feel the need to go on and on and on about how it does not. You s8mply would state your case and move on. Instead I count 3 paragraphs thus far explaining your racial mixture (which no one cares about) and equally claiming you are not mad but others are ( which so far you have only shown yourself to be).
As my Mexican husband would say….a lie don’t care who tells it.
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LOL 😀
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AD Powell
According to Abagond and supporters, most whites aren’t “white” because the Nordics they appears to worship are only a minority of the “white” population. Their ridiculous insistence that they could always detect the “tainted black blood” in Mariah Carey is just another example of Negro Aryanism – the idiotic insistence that the true “white” is both extremely Nordic and perfect. Needless to say, you only apply that ridiculous standard when you are trying to enforce or promote forced hypodescent and the “inferior black blood” myth. When it comes to Latinos and Arabs, most American blacks and pretend-blacks politely decide to be “blind” to even the most obvious signs of their “black blood” so as not to insult them.
Being “white” means u have very little to no melanin , that is all it means and europe was inhabited by melinated people throughout time . “Negro Aryanism” ?
it is ur “race” that upholds the nordic as the apex and epitome of the alleged beauty that is the white race, simple minded people of color only follow ur lead..And u don;t know a darned thing aout black people,, sounds like u wish u did,since most non-blacks when in the presence of black people are quick to acknowledge their “africaness” and r quite proud of it, they don’t share these revelations with whites because of whites sad need to feel superior based on the heirarchy of “whiteness” and their collective commitment to divide and control, the non-whites by alienating them from themselves and each other.
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The over exaggerated laughs is simply more of a sign that you are giving yourself away. Smh
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lol…:) …I’m laughing because you still get upset at the things I say…and yet you don’t know me at all! lol 🙂 …You think I’m upset, but I continue to laugh! lol 🙂
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@mixed Girl
When you assume you make an ass out of U and me. You have said nothing I feel the need to be upset about. Though when you assume it also says more about you than me.
You have only managed to make yourself look stupid and irrational. That my dear is not a reflection on me but on you and for that I can laugh. 🙂
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lol 🙂 …Keep ’em coming. This is better than any comedy I’ve seen lately! lol 🙂
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Here feel free to educate yourself.
http://thedailylove.com/when-you-assume-you-make-an-ass-out-of-me-and-you-give-it-up/
The article mentions
“Mind reading: When you project onto another other person what you think they are thinking and why they did what they did.
Living in fantasy: When you have an entire relationship with a person not based on reality, but what you have made up in your mind.
Preconceived ideas: This is where you have already made up in your mind who and what someone is and how that person will respond ahead of time. You then already feel reactive, even though nothing has happened yet.”
You have thus far committed all three.
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@Mixed Girl
I am glad you find stupidity funny. We have something in common. *shrugs*
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Tu shay! …lol 🙂 …You’re killing me! …Love it!! lol 🙂 …More! Please! lol 🙂
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I guess this is the day I say I am in the twilight zone because frankly I did not really seen any harsh words in what many of you guys said to the individual. Oh well can’t be nice to them all, especially when they come in with a chip on their shoulders.
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Actually it is touche. See what stupid gets you? Embarrassed and try to laugh and smile to play it off. ROFL
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I would ask if you know what it means, but the mere fact that you could not even spell it tells me perhaps not.
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okay…”touche” …lol 🙂 …”Good answer” …Will that do?! lol 🙂
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If you are content with stupidity then why are you asking me? Again this is a reflection of you not me. *shrugs*
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okay…guess that was stupid of me to ask you, huh?! lol 🙂 lol 🙂 lol 😀
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I have a question for those willing to answer it. How many non-Americans have you run across that were not aware that touche is not spelled tu shay?
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…duh….I don’t know….How many do you know? lol 🙂 🙂
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@Mixed Girl
Considering I am 2 to your 0 asking me was the smartest thing you did thus far, but like I said and you fail to comprehend…If you are content with your level of stupidity then why ask me for anything. Your ok with it right? It is a joke to you correct?
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oh yes…that’s right! lol 🙂 …I keep forgetting that it’s stupid of me to ask you anything! lol 🙂 …Yeah…it’s a real joke to read your comments, while you keep getting more angry! lol 🙂 🙂 🙂
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@Mixed Girl
Out of all my non American friends (8)…none of them were dumb enough to use the misspelling of touche, but then again I don’t tend to make friends with dumb people soooo.
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I’m mixed race too. Oh wait, I meant I’m a Mixed Girl Who REALLY Is Mixed……and not JUST CRAZY. I have family of all races and they are mixed over several generations. From my experience anyone of mixed ancestry who puts even the slightest amount of effort into defining their race as one instead of the other is really trying to overcompensate for their own feelings of inferiority. But maybe the poster with the long name already knew that about herself.
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lol 🙂 …This was fun! …Since it’s getting late, I’ll have to come back another day….But don’t worry….I’ll be back! lol 🙂 …I needed this….Sometimes it’s just good to LAUGH MY ASS OFF!!! lol 🙂 🙂
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@Mixed Girl
It is not stupid of you to ask me anything. Your just plain stupid. You proved that.
And what brought you to the assumption that I am angry? because I respond to you? (rolls eyes). As the saying goes…some times it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. 🙂
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See you when you return. I look forward to my watching you make a fool of yourself for your personal enjoyment. 🙂
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…”Touche”!! …. LOL 😀 …Nighty night! 🙂
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@Anne
I agree, but then again I always give a side eye to anyone who is going on and on about what race they are and it continues for 3 or more paragraphs worth.
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Sharina,
Yes, I was getting tired of her too. Maybe she got the message. Intelligent conversation is meant to help others grow from shared knowledge not tear them down with insults. But as a Trini, I don’t think I can help anyone figure out Mariah Carey. There we would call her mixed.
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Sharina
don’t know about you but that “MGWRIMixed and not just black” really reminded me of Asplund.
That exchanged with Sharina was soooo reminiscent of the Sharina vs Asplund exchanges.
Asplund was a champion of all things “interracial” and was smart enough to copy and mimic the comments he read from others but his one giveaway was that he liked to kick and put down black Americans when he could, hence his “NaijaGirl” persona and the disrespect to black American women.
Anne,
co-sign… Mariah can call herself what she wants… In Jamaica (probably anywhere in Caribbean, Mariah Carey would be a called “white or mixed” also.. no confusion about that.
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“I look forward to my watching you make a fool of yourself for your personal enjoyment.”
_ _ _
LOL! Yeah, that was a good one, Sharina!
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Linda,
Yes. And the funny thing is few people would worry about it. Speaking of Jamaicans, how about Tessanne Chin? I’m glad she won The Voice.
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@Anne
I agree. Intelligent conversation is meant to uplift and not drag down. Though to be honest I never got passed her obsession with race to care the remainder of what she said. I agree on the Mariah Carey as well. She is considered mixed and as a rule of thumb I generally allow people to identify as they choose.
@Linda
There is likelihood that it is Assplund. As I admitted with Anne, I really could never get past the part of her post where she was breaking down her or his racial mixture to really determine how Assplund like it was. I guess I may need to read it further.
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@Pay it Forward
He she or asplund was asking for it. LOL
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Anne, very proud of my girl Tessanne!
I only watched the Voice because of her — I hope she does make it Stateside but in anycase, she is already a star back home.
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“Sharina @ There is likelihood that it is Assplund. As I admitted with Anne, I really could never get past the part of her post where she was breaking down her or his racial mixture to really determine how Assplund like it was.”
Linda says,
This “MGWRIMixed and not just black” could have been for real…idk… and to be honest, I understood where she was coming from with some of her sentiments.
sometimes it’s necessary to “break it down” for some people because they ask “what are you” or in this case, on the Internet, if the topic is about being “mixed-race, interracial, biracial” — most mixed people will have the tendancy to initially describe themselves in detail — especially if the mixture
is not simply “black and white” (I personally try not to get into detail because I try to keep it simple for discussion purposes)
I think most people in the US are used to black/white biracial mixes but the Caribbean/Latin America have racial mixes that are less common in US and can’t be easily “one-dropped” into the either black or white category (even though people in the USA do their best to “one-drop” them anyway)
example: speaking of Tessanne Chin….she is a mixed-race Jamaican (black, white, Chinese) .. she has the same mixture and phenotype look as my mother; and like my mother, her Chinese ethnicity is the more dominant, even though she is very proud of her African heritage… she trying to push that she is “black”, would be accepted but still side-eyed.
Most people are identified by “what they look like” — in the US, mixed people who can’t be easily one-dropped become “Mexican or Puerto Rican” 🙂 but if that mixed-race person “looks black” or have any features that look “black” — then they are considered to be “black” and that’s good enough for everyone and no one wants to hear about the white, Chinese, Indian, or NA
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@ Linda
I can understand that, but I just don’t understand her need to go on about it for 3 paragraphs. That was a bit much. So much so that it really seemed as if she was angry about something and taking it out on the individuals in here.
Though I did take the time to go back and fully read the comments and found this. “I just read your ridiculous comments based on mine–and I’m not surprised that it created a reaction from you who responded (and who will continue to–I guarantee)…it only goes to show you that the truth hurts.” Makes me wonder if we are not indeed dealing with asplund or another who is a scorned past poster.
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“then they are considered to be “black” and that’s good enough for everyone and no one wants to hear about the white, Chinese, Indian, or NA”—That is very true. I have found quite a few mixtures throughout my family tree but I have become complacent with calling myself black. though i was hoping to break that for the sake of the kids
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@ Sharina, I think you’re being harsh on yourself by describing it as “complacency”. There’s pressure to conform. I the culture you are in, I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that there could be moments of real hostility toward an individual who foregrounds the different ethnicities in their family, and wants to to accurately describe what they are.
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@Bulanik
That is very true.
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when u look at vanity & paula abdul they mostly looks like spanish but they’re not, both ladies are very beautiful and always been question about they race. even i always thought vanity/paula abdul was hispanic.i love both of them.
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Wow, all this coming out over how Mariah Carey self-identifies. I guess in the end it’s up to her. But it’s funny how Hollywood just “blondes” everyone or tempts them into lightening up. Mariah looked great when she first came out – nice wavy brown hair – her look innocent and singing with natural born talent.
In the coming generations, we are gonna be so mixed up, the disagreements here on who’s what and what they look like ad nauseum – won’t even be an issue. How refreshing that will be.
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Mariah looks Latina! She is part Venezuelan, part Irish! So, she can claim whatever nationality/ race that she pleases. The black race will forever encrypt blackness to a T, if you have some African heredity in you. So, sick of the ‘one drop rule’ criteria. My culture is so hung on race, that it’s so hard to rid their slave mentality! Ugh!
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Maria Carey self-identifies with being black. No one foisted on her. In fact, many of her ‘fans’ were chagrined that she chose that as opposed to the myriad heritages she possesses.
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Why do blacks want her to call herself black when she’s only 1/4 black? She’s as much a black woman as Malcolm X was a White man
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