White American music currently comes in four main forms: rock, country, pop and, I would argue, gangsta rap.
The glory days of White American music were from about the 1940s to the 1990s. Hip hop and especially the Internet is killing off what is left of it among white performers.
White Americans, because of their wealth and numbers, have had a huge effect on world music. But in a sense most of what they listened to in the late 1900s was a British form of black American music. Of the top 20 best-selling albums in America, 15 come from Britain.
To a large degree White American music is watered-down black music. The swing music of the 1940s came from jazz, while rock and pop came from rhythm and blues (R & B) and gangsta rap from hip hop. Some of its top performers, like Bing Crosby, Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin, Madonna and Snoop Dogg, modelled themselves directly on black performers. (Snoop Dogg is black, but his blackness is as studied as the others’, a black in blackface.)
Disco aside, before the 1990s it was rare for whites in America to listen mainly to black music. Which is curious because it was right there at the end of the radio dial the whole time. But whites in Britain did listen to it, enough of them, which is why there have been repeated British invasions. The British would copy black music, change it a bit, and then become huge hits in White America.
In the middle 1960s rock was still a white form of black music, but then in the late 1960s The Who and other bands started to change rock into something very different.
Some things to keep in mind about White American music:
- The melody or tune is far more important than the beat.
- The words do not matter that much.
- Music is largely a private experience. It is something that comes from a machine, like an iPod or a record player, not from churches and dance clubs.
- For the most part it is not meant to make you dance or move your soul. It is more like the wallpaper of your life.
- Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.
Gangsta rap seems to be a form of White American music. Of all the forms of hip hop it is closest to rock and sells the best, mainly to whites. Its videos and words tend to play to the worst stereotypes whites have about blacks, like the old minstrel shows. It is no more a form of black music than were the coon songs of the 1890s.
See also:
Thank you. Pop music is basically watered down Black music for the consumption by mainstream white audiences. They like Black music, but felt it’s too strong for them. Ironically, they like gansta rap because it gives them a glimpse of “the Other” while all the more condemn Blacks for their behavior instead of looking themselves in the mirror.
Abagond, you forgot Elvis Presley, the so-called king of rock and roll who basically papered over all the song hits performed by Black artists for the benefit of young white audience who want something new and exciting in the fifties and early sixties. The original Black artists didn’t get one cent from their song hits while he went on to become a big star.
Stephanie B.
My father thought Elvis would never amount to much – he had heard all those songs before. But he forgot that Elvis was white, that it is about more than just the music.
wait…so you’re just a psychotic racist? Is that it?
What, because I said rock came from black music? That is no secret.
The funny thing about Elvis: I never liked him. Well, he had a nice voice, but I could never understand why he’s considered to be THAT great. The kind of rock? No way.
Also, I didn’t really like his songs. Why? Same as Beatles. Many of their songs (not all of them, of course, but many popular ones, especially the early ones) actually sounded pointless. (“words don’t matter much”). “I love you, blah blah blah”.
I would argue that the only deep about rock songs is anger, but yes, anger is important to rock. So is the need to talk about social injustice and raise some important issues. Or it should be.
Maybe I’d like the songs more if I heard the originals or black performers before I heard Elvis’ versions.
Like I said, a post on how rock became white (did it, really?) would be a great one. Thanks for considering that suggestion.
“Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.”
Maybe to you. Well to each it’s own. I love rock music and always thought R&B sounds awful. To me, it’s just singing about love for something with slow boring beats added on. Marilyn Manson, Guns n Roses, Sex Pistols, and All-American tops any crappy baby mama love drama bs that R&B music.
What do you feel bands like The Who made rock into? I’m only curious.
I feel that punk music, particularly hardcore punk rock from the 1980s, is one of the only forms of White American music that isn’t a complete hack-form, stolen from Black people. Yes, it is defined almost entirely by anger, protest, and a social alienation, but it is what I see as a very sincere music that it unbelievably lacking in much of White music.
Do you feel The Who had something to do with this? Why or why not? If not, what do you think they affected and how?
How do you see punk music, pre-mainstream?
I associate “White American music” mainly with Country & Western music. A style I personally find indigestible.
Quite a few countries in this world put “Country & Western” together with the “World music” shelves somewhere in a corner in the record shops.
I’m not a big rock fan at all, but too say that it uniformly “sounds horrible to the untrained ear” & “little real emotion in it” is… a bit much…
I’d argue that Heavy Metal, most electronic music (you could argue that Hip-Hop started it though) are genres that came completely out of white people, even if I don’t like it at all.
I don’t think it’s ever fair to write off an entire genre of music, there definately have been great virtuoso musicians in the genre, Jimmy Page, John Mclauclin, Dave Mustaine, Eric Clapton ect.
I don’t like them much, but I can appreciate their skills.
Most Rock sounds totally wack to me, but I don’t dismiss any merit in it whatsoever.
This might be true for the very beginnings of experimental “noises and tones” made with electronic components. Anyway, if you look at electronic dance music (by far the largest branch of electronic music today) and its history, you’ll find a diverse range of origins.
That’s another thing about US-style media manipulation. It creeps in everywhere, even in artistic fields. Everything needs to be unambiguously colour-coded or the public gets confused. Or is it the industry itself that is confused?
I think electronic dance music has united more artists of more different backgrounds than any other. The black influence is often underrated or downplayed by the US media.
The US have their pioneers like Frankie Knuckles, Jesse Saunders, Kevin Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Derrick May and not least Afrika Bambaataa who is sort of the missing link between electronic dance music and Hip Hop. They came mainly from the declining Disco scene in NYC and Chicago.
On the British scenes you’ve got black and mixed electronic artists like Carl Cox, A.R. Kane, A Guy Called Gerald, Goldie, LTJ Bukem, and the integrated crews like The Prodigy, Massive Attack, Roni Size & Reprazent, Colourbox etc. There are many others who stay more or less unknown to the mainstream.
There are electronic musicians all over the world. Some are adapting and mixing it with their local elements. It can be made by anyone who has access to a computer from later than 2002 or so. And who is creative of course.
Anglo-American music today are mostly rip offs, copies and plagiarised versions and i notice many of them all sound the same using the same riffs, and rythms. top artistses like Beyoncy, Ke$ha, Usher, Lady Gaga, the Black eyed peas etc are all unoriginal rip off artists, and have been sued and accuse of plagiarising and stealing copyrights.
As long as they are getting paid, who cares? Get a job!
people whose copyrights have been stolen care
Oo-kay… I pretty strongly oppose to this blog post, sounds really biased. I’m not a music historian, but…
That being said, I love “black” music. I started hearing it from childhood, loved it all, from Nat King Cole (greatest singer ever, Sinatra eat ur heart out), to Little Richard to Motown (Martha & Wandellas et al), Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, house music, disco, techno, drum&base etc…
“Whites” did not “water down” anything. They incorporated other influences in their music, namely black music, which was a mix of its own. Absolutely black people had a huge impact on western popular music, an influence that was denied and not credited to them back in the 50′s… But you have to understand that what artistic people do is that they fuse new influences to their existing artistic pallette. They don’t “steal” or “water down” anything on purpose, they just create music they like. Plagiarism is another thing, a cover version is another. Too bad that copyright was rather weak those days.
That’s what artists do, they merge new influences to their own stuff. It is called syntheis, artists are always looking for new things by another artists to inspire them and incorporate them to their work. There is no such thing as original art. Everybody is influenced by everybody, and the more interaction, the more fruitful the results.
You make it sound like blacks made good music and whites made it bad. No. It was just different. Lame to some, unforgettable evergreens to another. This coming from a white guy who is not rock or heavy oriented at all. Actually, I pretty much despise heavy metal sans a few individual songs.
Honestly, your post sounds slightly racist. I understand that blacks in the US have suffered greatly, but you are also demining the talent, input and creativity of “white” american musicians. You let american racist history skew your view on the input of individual artistic talent.
Don’t you see? The more mixing of people, ideas, art and technology, the better the results.
I do illustrations and graphic design for living, and there is nothing more inspiring than the works of collegues living or long gone. No artist is an island- and if he is, he is a part of an archipelago.
Sorry, english is not my native tongue, so my choice of words or frases, not to mention grammar or structure, may not be the best possible to express my views in this matter.
A few things wrong with this post.
The words do not matter that much.
That’s incorrect; the words matter just as much, however much of white rock favours a more abstract poetic approach to lyrics, whereas a lot of black music is more direct and more easily understood.
For the most part it is not meant to make you dance or move your soul. It is more like the wallpaper of your life.
That’s extremely subjective. Think about artists like Radiohead, the Beatles, Dylan, etc. For those who are into them, they are extremely moving to one’s soul. But it is true to say that what moves the soul of a fanof white music is different to a fan of black music.
Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
That’s rubbish, although it’s certainly true of some white music. A more apt description would be that white singers do not tend express their feelings vocally as well as black singers do.
Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.
That is entirely subject to what you first started listening to. I am a massive soul fan but didn’t get into soul until I was about 20. I grew up on rock, because that’s all I was exposed to. It took me a while before I could appreciate the nuances of a lot of black music; a lot of rock fans never do.
I find the term white american music as defined as rock and gangsta rap odd. I would contend that there is no white american music. Whites may have “watered” it down, but its definitely black music and all through its history, black people have been making the same type of music. I would call country and western music white, however. I don’t know that it has any black influence, but I don’t know much about it.
The only rock that sounds awful to the untrained ear is some of that hardcore punk, in my opinion. I love all other forms of rock including a lot of metal. Also, I have to disagree that the words mean nothing. A lot of the songs mean something very personal to the singer but are often undicepherable to the listener. Like ES says, the lyrics are more poetic and abstract. R&B lyrics are often very straight forward and deal with the same themes.
I grew up listening to rock and R&B and I love them both. As an African American I am always mindful of the history that gave rise to these forms of music and I’m continually amazed at how such deep pain could be transfromed into a thing of beauty.
Abagond, you’re really clutching at straws here.
Have you ever listened to Dark Side of the Moon? Which Chuck Berry song was that ripping off? English rock musicians certainly borrowed basic song structures from Black American artists, but they ripped them apart a thousand times and rebuilt them with additions. The result was as different from the original as a personal computer is from a typewriter.
The words do not matter that much.
It seems almost pointless to give you examples to the contrary, since you had to be aware that there are literally thousands of them. So I’ll just say that arguably the greatest American rock band was The Doors, and you should listen to the Oedipal drama in The End.
Or go listen to a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song written during the civil rights movement, or any of the great anti-war anthems from the Vietnam era.
Have you heard much of the brilliant political satire of Warren Zevon?
There’s this other American guy whose lyrics are pretty important to his music, what’s his name… oh yeah, Bob Dylan.
Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
Here, let’s look at the white American performers with the most certified gold and platinum albums.
Aerosmith
The Beach Boys
Garth Brooks
Johnny Cash
Chicago
John Denver
Neil Diamond
The Doors
Bob Dylan
Toby Keith
Kenny G
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Madonna
Barry Manilow
Willie Nelson
Kenny Rogers
James Taylor
Look at that list!
These are the “angry” musicians that white America loves?
Unless every black person owns 3 copies of The Best of The Beach Boys, I think you’ve done a very poor job of representing “white music”.
One interesting thing about white rock fans though… they have a completely different ear for vocals than fans of black music.
I for one find it almost impossible to listen to Bob Dylan for any amount of time, yet there are legions of fans who think he’s just amazing. I like a few of his songs…when they are covered by black people! (Jimi Hendrix’s “All along the watchtower”, Nina Simone’s “I shall be released”.)
Likewise, the Beatles are pretty poor singers in comparison to the black artists they imitated early on in their career. Ditto for the Stones.
But a reason for the success of many of those artists songs is that they can be sung by anyone and still sound OK. A lot of soul songs don’t sound that good being sung in the shower, or by some beginner with a guitar, because they require a higher level of vocal skills. The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
Beatles is the most overrated band in the history of music. My personal opinion, not a fact. I think they are good, but not divine.
If I had to choose a “rocker “I really love, it’s Billy Idol. Rebel yeeelll!
I don’t see music as color, there are just songs I like and ones that I don’t like. I’ve just noticed along the years that the songs I’ve liked the most are mostly by black artists.
And also, chuckle, music by gay artists! Pet Shop Boys, George Michael etc, etc…
I started out listening to Soul/R&B only as a kid, but had a mix of friends in high school who listened to Rock. Most of it I didn’t like, but some of it was great. Then as time went by, my music tastes became more eclectic. Of course, Rock itself has changed a lot in the past 20 years.
Anyway, I can and do listen to both genres now, but I appreciate them in different ways. Modern music is all cross-pollinated. You will find a LOT of Western influences in what we think of as “Black music” today, right down to the harmonies, chord progressions, and instruments used. The notion that the borrowing/adaptation was all one directional is erroneous.
“But a reason for the success of many of those artists songs is that they can be sung by anyone and still sound OK. A lot of soul songs don’t sound that good being sung in the shower, or by some beginner with a guitar, because they require a higher level of vocal skills. The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.”
I have to disagree. It takes alot of talent and pratice to sing some metal songs. it’s just a different stlye of singing. Except for Somali music, some hip-hop, Regee,and en Vogue, I can’t relate to “black” music.I’ve tried to listen to bm, but I found so painful to listen to. I just really don’t like the way Melismatic Vocals sound.R&B sounds very boring and most of the songs sound the same. So overly sad babymama/I’m a strong woman is all I hear. Hip-Hop is okay, but can’t relate to the whole living on the streets thing. I’m big fan of Japanese music. Mainly,enka and j-rock/pop. Plus, I find the urban/thug style ugly. It’s doesn’t have the beauty of gothic lolita or visual kei.
I can’t think rock/roll as white. When I think of white music, I think of counrty or classical.
@ Hannu:
I was with you up until the point where you mentioned Billy Idol.
@ Usagi:
there are always exceptions, and metal is probably one of them. But if you listen to most indie music, punk, country, and a lot of mainstream pop and rock, most of the singers are in the “average to good” class.
I can’t relate to “black” music
You should really start with music from the 60s and early 70s. That’s the golden age of black music IMO. Most R&B today is rubbish, frankly.
White people music:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/0cc0bac3ce/chappelle-show-dancing-for-different-cultures
“To a large degree White American music is watered-down black music. The swing music of the 1940s came from jazz, while rock and pop came from rhythm and blues (R & B) and gangsta rap from hip hop.”
I don’t think that anyone with an understanding of hip-hop would try to make a real delineation between Gangster Rap and Hip-Hop. Or say that Gangster Rap is for WP and “real” hip-hop is for BP. It doesn’t really work like that at all. Hip-Hop has gone through many phases and has branched off in many directions over the years.
Gangster was just one style out of many, and it’s not really a separate genre anymore anyway. Nobody calls anything “gangster Rap” anymore. Artists like Flocka and UGK are the closest thing to gangster rap today and you better believe they have huge support within the black community.
What about 2pac and Biggie? Are they Gangster or “real” hip-hop? They were both and everyone from the hood to the burbs was buying their records. So again trying to draw a line here is meaningless.
When I was in college white students listened to Native Tongues, Tribe Called Quest, The Roots, Wu-Tang, Common, Mos Def, Fugees, Digable Planets, etc. It may be true that gangster rap got more support from white suburban kids, but that’s just because there are so many of them and they have more money. What you’re leaving out is that white fans supported those artists I listed as well, if not more so. Without white fans The Roots would be playing to empty houses.
@ Eurasian Sensation : I’ve listened to old school blackmusic and still didn’t like most of it. It’s so slow and boring. Most rap is just talking real fast. IDK, maybe I can’t relate to subjects. 85 percent of black music is just between meh and ewwww. I’m take Marilyn Manson, Gackt, and David Bowie over Al Green,Jill Scott, or Teana Marie . And most soul music is blah. But that’s just me.
Anyone agree that De La Soul’s ‘Three feet high and rising’ is either the ‘Pet Sounds’ or the ‘Sargeant Pepper’ of all Rap albums.
I like a fusion of music and all different genres. Credit where credits due, there are many songs that have been influenced by or come about as a direct link from black artists but…music ever changing and constantly evolving and I more often than not like the results. Being UK based and growing up in the late 70′s early 80′s I listened to:-
Disco
SKA/Two Tone
POP
New Wave
Soul
Hip Hop
Jungle
House
Reggae
All kinds of music and perhaps I have gone from one to another because one genre resembles another but ALL that music, man! Music has seen me through good days, bad days, etc. As the saying goes, Music has definately been the soundtrack to my life
According to the Wikipedia entry “Music of the United States” even country music is not without the influence of African musical traditions:
“African American musical styles became an integral part of American popular music through blues, jazz, rhythm and blues, and then rock and roll, soul and hip hop; all of these styles were consumed by Americans of all races, but were created in African American styles and idioms before eventually becoming common in performance and consumption across racial lines. In contrast, country music derives from both African and European, as well as Native American and Hawaiian, traditions and yet has long been perceived as a form of white music.[6]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_music
@Eurasian Sensation
I for one find it almost impossible to listen to Bob Dylan for any amount of time, yet there are legions of fans who think he’s just amazing. I like a few of his songs…when they are covered by black people! (Jimi Hendrix’s “All along the watchtower”, Nina Simone’s “I shall be released”.)
I think most Dylan fans would acknowledge that is talent is poetry, not vocals. I agree about liking the covers more, but I wouldn’t restrict it to just black artists. There have been several great covers of “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door” by everyone from Guns’N'Roses to Warren Zevon while he was dying of lung cancer.
Speaking of Warren Zevon, where are the black artists writing songs about CIA involvement in the Congolese anti-colonial war? I like some of K’Naan’s stuff, but I struggle to find much thoughtful commentary in today’s music.
The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
Interesting theory, and it probably has some merit. Although I’ll have to disagree with later posters who said that The Beatles weren’t great vocalists: maybe not at the start, but by Let It Be and into their solo careers they were pros.
I think we could add that in addition to coming up with “really good melodies”, rock and roll artists of that era wrote powerful lyrics. One of the reasons rock dominated the 60′s and most of the 70′s was its close association with social and political change. I don’t see the same situation today.
The opposition to the Vietnam War and growing authoritarianism by rock artists in that era was open and effective. John Lennon with Give Peace a Chance and Happy Xmas (War is Over). Buffalo Springfield with For What It’s Worth (Stop Children, What’s That Sound?). The Doors with The Unknown Soldier. Dylan’s All Along the Watchtower. CCR had a bunch which, like Fortunate Son, you would recognize if you heard. The list is huge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_about_the_Vietnam_War
Meanwhile, there is no list of songs about the Iraq War. What’s going on? The last decade of American life has been rife with social and political discord, and the biggest artists in music are too busy writing songs about themselves. Black soldiers are dying in disproportionate numbers in the middle of the desert in a war for oil, but you won’t hear about it on the radio. And as much as I appreciated Kanye West’s “George Bush does not care about black people” improv (complete with deer-in-the-headlights stare), it really doesn’t compare to John Lennon performing at anti-war rallies while Nixon was trying to get him deported.
So finally, @Abagond:
[White] Music is largely a private experience.
Well, no. My favourite music connects me to the struggle for humanity in the world. It’s an intensely emotional experience carried by the melody, the voice, but most of all by the lyrics. I share it with my friends whenever I can. Some of my favourite memories involve my friends, a guitar and a campfire.
I don’t listen to the radio anymore because my impression of today’s music is that it’s all composed on a computer in a studio, with lyrics written by artists who were chosen for their appearance. I leave it to my friends to update me with the occasional gem that trickles through the mediocrity machine.
@ Awryguy:
The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
Think about it this way… you can reduce a lot of Beatles songs to just an acoustic guitar or piano, and have it sung by someone who can barely sing, and they will still sound pretty good. Then think about a song like Aretha’s “Respect” or James Brown’s “Sex Machine” (I’m just choosing well known examples), being sung by some amateur humps. Yuk. Unless the band and vocalist are first-class, the songs would have no appeal.
One of the reasons rock dominated the 60′s and most of the 70′s was its close association with social and political change.
I would actually contend that soul and funk music grasped the thread of social change equally well or better than the white rock world. As an example, check out Curtis Mayfield’s “Back in the World”, Swamp Dogg’s “Sam Stone” or Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Happening, Brother”, all of which deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets. Plus African-Americans had more problems to deal with than white Americans, so they had a lot of stuff to draw on for inspiration.
The only styles of popular music that is white american that I can think of are:
Country & Western (awful)
Grunge (some good bands but most are whiny and protentious)
Emo (Like grunge except there is no good emo music whatsoever)
Most Metal (I love most metal genres except Black/Death metal)
Techno (Awful)
Acid House (awful)
For me most white rock music is difficult to listen to, but too many times I found myself getting into a tune or a genre too much to make a strict ruling. There are exceptions to the rule, so I think Abagond is being over-dismissive.
I think Karen Carpenter’s brother, Richard, hit the nail on the head when he said that soul music wasn’t a Black monopoly. I am not actually a fan of The Carpenters’ music, but Karen Carpenter’s voice has soul. I think Richard Carpenter has a point, and I do not think he just meant vocal ability.
I am not just talking about soul music either. There are examples like Dusty Springfield’s “The Look of Love”, or Amy Whitehouse (“Unholy War”), Duffy (“Stepping Stone”) and others showing how it’s done.
I mean rock as well. Such as:
*U2 – e.g.”Pride” (In the name of love),
*The Police – e.g. “Roxanne”,
*Robert Plant & Jimmy Page, e.g. “Gallow’s Pole”
“Cosmic Love” by Florence and the Machine, especially the acoustic versions.
All Irish or British, but all white rock musicians. The emotions expressed in their music are not only anger. And not just superficial – the listener is supposed to be moved, and not exclusively by melody. I realize that “Gallow’s Pole” is a cover of a Leadbelly song, but the Page/Plant cover is probably better.
What do Irish or British artists do to change rock a bit to make it sound better and set Americans alight?
Could it be voice quality? Songs with more emotional truth or something??
When Mary J. Blige sings “One” with U2, does it sound better with or without Bono’s vocals because of the conviction she brings to the song?
Tina Turner’s sings ‘rock’, but to me, her voice is practically identical to Gladys Knight’s, and Gladys Knight has an out-and-out fabulous old-school soul voice. I was listening to her sing “License to Kill” and thought it was Tina Turner! If Gladys wanted to rock, she could…
I forget Thin Lizzy. But then again, Phil Lynott was a sexy Black Irishman…
@Eurasian Sensation
Think about it this way… you can reduce a lot of Beatles songs to just an acoustic guitar or piano, and have it sung by someone who can barely sing, and they will still sound pretty good. Then think about a song like Aretha’s “Respect” or James Brown’s “Sex Machine” (I’m just choosing well known examples), being sung by some amateur humps. Yuk. Unless the band and vocalist are first-class, the songs would have no appeal.
Yeah, I got that the first time. My point was an addition to yours, not a counter.
I would actually contend that soul and funk music grasped the thread of social change equally well or better than the white rock world. As an example, check out Curtis Mayfield’s “Back in the World”, Swamp Dogg’s “Sam Stone” or Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Happening, Brother”, all of which deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets. Plus African-Americans had more problems to deal with than white Americans, so they had a lot of stuff to draw on for inspiration.
I wouldn’t argue that black artists in the 60′s and 70′s weren’t just as involved in the counterculture movement as their white counterparts. I was making a point about rock artists before, but I’m also aware of several powerful reggae songs from the same era – with Jimmy Cliff’s “Vietnam” being the best for its simple poignancy. I know “What’s Happening Brother”, but my only experience with Curtis Mayfield is “Superfly”. I’ll check out the others you mentioned.
Speaking of songs that deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets, have you ever really listened to the lyrics of “Born in the U.S.A.”? It’s not the fist pumping anthem that Reagan made it look like.
The distinction I wanted to focus on was that white rock artists were openly political at the peak of their popularity, which hasn’t been the case with any of the genres that have dominated the music scene since then. I’m not singling black artists out, because disco was everybody’s fault. And most of the music from popular white artists in the last 20 years has been self-indulgent and shallow.
It’s just… there’s so much opportunity here. I don’t see any other venue in which African-Americans could communicate with the white population so effectively. Even putting race relations aside, artists have always had the responsibilty of speaking truth to power. Do you think there’s enough of that in today’s music?
I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions. Tupac’s “Changes” still gives me chills the way “Imagine” does; I think the lasting populatiry of that song says a lot about what people respect in an artist.
I think sometimes there is interesting music out there that gets ignored because it does not fit categories like ‘love songs’ or ‘politics’, rock, jazz or pop. And even though the musician or product might be critically acclaimed and sell well, is it always possible to pigeon-hole in the American context?
There was the time when Jamaican reggae music was a ‘peripheral’, minority music, and Algerian rai – Islamic protest music – was struggling to be heard even in Europe. Reggae music now is pretty mainstream in the US, although no longer overtly political.
A musician like Nitin Sawney can receive acclaim in the UK, write about things like nuclear
weapons, the immigrant experience,and fascism. His tunes are even catchy and easy on the ear! But I am wondering how you market a second generation Indian – a British Asian – to American rock and jazz audience?
Then there are truck-load of African musicians who have been pouring out incredible, sometimes political, socially current music for years. Is this kind of music just too ‘minority’, too ‘inaccessible’ to be marketed to a mainstream American audience?
I actually like many songs by Bob Dylan… Also Beach Boys and such… Billy Idol to me wrote and performed some ot the horniest songs ever…
I also dig roots, blues, bluegrass and I heard Lee Dorsey’s song “Sitting on my Ya-Ya”. I was like 14 and it sounded weird, but I fell in love with it… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LnpErE6f4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
And I also dig reggae: seems like me and Demerera have a similar taste in music! Coincidentally, my sister worked in Ireland (for EU) in Trim, and I’ve visited Ireland three times…
Bad Manners was a quite popular ska band, I still love their “Nananenenunuu”… Lol
@ Hannu L
Could you tell me what Finnish music like? I only know about Sibelius!
And come to think of it, I used to love opera – which was never intended for snobs or a ‘special’ class of people like it is now in UK or USA because it was traditional Italian music/theatre, for the ordinary poor people to enjoy. Somewhere all the way this music form became ‘white’ and elitist, instead of passionate, totally consuming, life affirming music-experience. Opera something you either love or hate, but you have to give it chance before you know.
When I used to have time to listen to music more, I’d love to hear classical sampling in Stevie Wonder songs, or Alicia Keyes or Nina Simone’s piano playing.
Billy Idol? I can still feast my eyes on him, and what a performer.
These days I swing between a lot of different music, such as:
-The Prodigy ( Firestarter must be played very loud),
-Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (Sufi singer from Pakistan singing in Urdu usually mixed with reggae),
-Phyllis Hyman – because she is a goddess,
-Salif Keita (Malian singer – incredible soaring voice)
Presently, I am into the voice of Mavis Staples – lead singer of the Staple Singers “I’ll Take Care You There”. The minute I heard her sing, I think I knew precisely why Bob Dylan asked this woman to marry him back in the day. Passion personified…
@ awryguy:
The distinction I wanted to focus on was that white rock artists were openly political at the peak of their popularity, which hasn’t been the case with any of the genres that have dominated the music scene since then. I’m not singling black artists out, because disco was everybody’s fault. And most of the music from popular white artists in the last 20 years has been self-indulgent and shallow.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that what many regard as the “golden eras” of several of the musical genres you mentioned were also the eras when the artists had something to say in socio-political terms.
That mid-to-late-60s period is the era that rock fans get most misty-eyed about, but likewise for soul fans (with funk, also strongly infused with black consciousness, also extending that period into the early 70s). The same could be said about reggae in the early to mid 70s.
The golden age of hip-hop is generally regarded as between around 1988 and 1991; the top artists of that area were very socially-minded (although not always in politically correct fashion) – Public Enemy, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Ice Cube, etc.