I am banning Lord of Mirkwood, aka An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach, for being a bully. The same as with Thad and Resw.
I should have done this back in December 2015 when he refused to apologize to Taotesan for an extremely insensitive, necrophilic remark that went way beyond the pale.
The necrophilic remark is long gone, but not what followed:
ABAGOND: Maybe instead of trying to defend saying such a sick and insensitive thing, you should take a moment and reflect on what you did. Maybe even apologize.
I should not have to add necrophilia to my comment policy, but I guess I will have to because of people like you.
LORD OF MIRKWOOD: Hmmm. You shift the goalposts to avoid answering the criticism I posed. Logical fallacy much?
ABAGOND: I am not going to help you miss the point.
LORD OF MIRKWOOD: “Point?” You’re making a “point” by deleting one comment with zero profanity while certain users thread their comments with obscenities for years and years and never get so much as a blink?
And since then he has helped to drive off another commenter (Fan) and was disrupting my threads in what seemed to be an attempt to drive off a third: Resw.
Arguably, Fan and Resw gave as good as they got, and maybe they even “started it” in the technical sense, but that cannot be said of Taotesan and she got the worst of it. Like with Resw, his abuse seemed too programmatic. It was more than just him losing his cool every now and then.
The moral: When protecting a commenter in the name of “free speech”, I need to make sure I am not protecting a glorified bully. I need to make clear in the comment policy what behaviour counts as bullying. The trouble with bullying is that it can seem like justified anger even though it is far more calculated and manipulative than that.
My apologies to everyone, but particularly to Taotesan, Fan and Resw, for not having done this way, way sooner.
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (July 12th): As per his request, I have deleted all of Lord of Mirkwood’s comments.
See also:
- Is Scribh a troll? – 64% of commenters and lurkers seem to think so
- commenter – the scene of the crime (the necrophilic remark) – and my philosophy on commenting. His comments, though, are now deleted.
- Egypt in 1275 BC – the last straw, where Resw and An Scribh were disrupting a perfectly innocent thread, one that had nothing to do with politics. His comments, though, are now deleted.
- Comment Policy
- Is Resw a troll? / Resw banned
Dear Abagond,
I gained tons and tons of knowledge from your site.
I don’t understand however that you protect rude commenters in the name of free speech. This is your place, your room, your rules.
If someone behaves like that on my FB-page or my blog I kick him out. Insults are not free speech. Your site is not a newspaper stand or public radio. Or is it?
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Good riddance.👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
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“Your site is not a newspaper stand or public radio.”
Even many newspaper websites have found it necessary to moderate online comments for bad behavior and to ban unruly commenters.
And back in the old days, they didn’t print every letter to the editor they received. Stuff that used to go in the Crank File for the reporters’ private amusement now ends up plastered all over the online comments.
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@ Abagond
“I need to make clear in the comment polcy what behaviour counts as bullying. The trouble with bullying is that it can seem like justified anger even though it is far more calculated and manipulative than that.”
How would you feel about a clearly defined warning system? People who you believe may be bullying get X number of chances to rein themselves in, possibly with a gradational set of punishments, before being banned outright. That could help to distinguish between honest justified anger and calculated bullying.
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This is one of the many reasons I follow your work, Abagond. You make every effort to be fair and to allow serious discussion of many widely varying viewpoints while recognizing bad behavior and bullying, all without jumping to ban someone at the first sign of trouble. Making distinctions between overreacting and bullying is not always easy. Thanks for being willing to review your own practice and policy in the interest of protecting your readers from abuse.
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I’ve been lurking and not saying much but its about time lol
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Hmm, interesting picture. I doubt it reflects the demographics of your blog.
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DAMN! I missed this
When did those exchanges above happen?
Are you purging Abagond? I hope others stop lurking and start commenting – I didn’t realise he had put others off of commenting – and he called me the bully!
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@ Solitaire
“How would you feel about a clearly defined warning system? People who you believe may be bullying get X number of chances to rein themselves in, possibly with a gradational set of punishments, before being banned outright. That could help to distinguish between honest justified anger and calculated bullying.”
Great idea!
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@ Paige
I can’t take credit for the idea itself. I’ve seen it implemented on other forums.
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@ gro jo
For dinner parties you can invite up to two Black people. At least that is what I gather from searching for “dinner party” on Google Images.
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@ Solitaire
Can you think of any examples?
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Just sitting here waiting for the sudden influx of pro-Scribh votes and emails, like what I got after I banned Resw…
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Abagond, you could have gone with this picture instead: http://www.business2community.com/social-media/the-social-dinner-party-why-you-may-not-be-invited-0534139
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As I’ve said before, I felt that Scribh was not really a troll, though he sometimes seemed like one. He definitely could be rude and not a good “dinner party guest.” He pursued his points single-mindedly, in a way that could certainly be interpreted as “programmatic” and “calculated.” I think he has a tendency to judge everything around him and “pick a side,” more so than the average person.
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@ Abagond
I’ll have to think a bit.
The Ubuntuforum thread that described contrarian trolls also said:
“For this reason the staff here often intervene, either with a warning in a thread, jailing one or more posts, sending private messages to offenders, and even banning people–temporarily or permanently–from these forums.”
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=179139
Some of the subreddits that focus on social justice or serve as support groups will put people in a temporary ban for anywhere from a day up to a week, kind of a “time out” for them to calm down. It is rather like your putting people in auto-mod but a step further because nothing they post during the temporary ban ever appears, not even after it is lifted. The number of days the ban lasts can be part of the escalating punishment for multiple infractions.
Let me see if I can remember anything more specific.
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Well, dang. I just tried “African American dinner party” and still most of the images only had one or two tokens in a sea of white.
I did find this, though:
http://dev.blackenterprise.com/small-business/7-ways-to-build-your-entrepreneur-support-network/attachment/f-10/
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To whites, black people are like seasoning. Just a couple of dashes is just right, but too much will spoil the entire dish.
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@Mack Lyons: That’s an interesting perspective. Very clever. LOL!
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@ Mack Lyons: That’s an interesting perspective. That’s very clever.
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@ Abagond
This is just something I found while surfing but it is along the lines of what I’ve seen in practice elsewhere:
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/general/chit-chat/98284-example-forum-rules
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Decided to do a test.
Google image search for
Dinner Party African American
most images are of people; most are mixed black/white, but some are all black.
Dinner party black
most images are of black tableware. some involve a group of black people
Dinner Party Asian
almost all images are purely food; those with people are white people eating Asian food.
Dinner Party Asian American
almost all images are purely food; those with people are either white people eating Asian food or multi-ethnic with whites, blacks, Asians.
Dinner Party Latino
almost all images are of Latino people, many without food
Dinner Party Native American
purely food, no people
Dinner Party American Indian
purely food, no people
dinner party multiethnic
purely people, no food
I wonder what you need to type in to get black people eating multiethnic food.
Tried
“dinner party African American multinational cuisine”
–> 100% food, and mostly soul food.
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Its rare that I comment but for this I must say YAAAAYYYY!
About bloody time.
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Note that An Scribh has requested I delete all his comments…
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@ jefe
Wow. Even worse than I imagined.
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@ Solitaire
Thanks! I will have to think about this.
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@Abagond
Wait, doesn’t he supposedly teach HISTORY?!? Odd that he’d want to revise his own history that way.
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About time Mirkwood left us. Here’s hoping another self-absorbed, self-centered troll doesn’t take his place.
Ethering his whole posting history makes it easier for him to slide back in under a new assumed name.
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I always thought LOM was GR under a different user name. They were too much alike. Ultimately both opted to have their words deleted.
GR was the reason Matari left and it was not until he became increasingly abusive that he was banned. With that being said this is a good change, because people will do and increase in action what they see as allowed. Satanforce said it perfectly when he noted that commenters had no respect for you. However, this was something that began years ago and overtime got out of control.
On the flip side it needs to be clear on what is abusive or bullying because people will cry wolf with this as well. Personally I feel that if you can dish it you can take it, but meh.
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@Mack
“Ethering his whole posting history makes it easier for him to slide back in under a new assumed name.”—True or either go to another blog under the pretense of justice for all.
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@ Abagond
I hope this isn’t getting too personal or stepping over boundaries. If it is, please delete this comment.
I keep thinking about what you wrote here:
This whole rules thing goes against the grain for your personality type. It’s going to be a challenge for you in ways that it would not be for some of the others.
I’m guessing as an ISFP you find it easy to maintain respect for people who don’t set firm rules and boundaries, who are more laissez faire. But some of the other personality types are very different. They don’t have any respect for people who are easygoing and will run roughshod over them if given a chance. They actually respect people more who tell them no and who set firm guidelines, even if they protest like mad and try to test the boundaries.
I hope you will be able to find a balance that you feel comfortable with.
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@ Jefe
What I noticed with that search is most of the stock images of all-black groups were family gatherings with kids present. Which is good in a way; it’s much better than your results with other search terms and groups.
But I couldn’t find many stock photos of adult dinner parties, whether classy or casual, with predominately black attendees. (There were some photos of real-life banquets but not the type of posed, stock photo, model-released imagery that Abagond was presumably looking for).
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To his credit, it seems that An Scribh is bowing out gracefully. No threats of legal action, no surge of pro-Scribh votes or pro-Scribh emails, no rival tree forts, etc.
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Huh. We at a dinner party now. A party for my so called great nephew? Yes im the only whit. Thabk god my wife is manning the grill (she love that ish). I usually draw that duty
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Its nice actually no im not sending a picture
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@abagond
” it seems that An Scribh is bowing out gracefully.”—No he didn’t. He just chose to take his hate and harassment elsewhere.
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Just remember that the world is not only America.
In some other places you can have a Dinner Party being the majority of guests Blacks. Look at the Diner en Blanc – Abidjan 2015, vidéo officielle:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N77dShfmRM)
So, to a large extent, it depends of what part of the world you are talking about!
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@ munubantu
Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
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@ Jefe
I got somewhat better results with “Asian people eating dinner.”
However, when I was typing it in, Google prediction suggested “Asian people eating cats” (#1) and “Asian people eating dogs” (#3). SMH.
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Doesn’t LOM / ASG have his own blog? I could never figure out why he didn’t spend more time working on that.
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Update (July 12th): As per his request, I have deleted all of Lord of Mirkwood’s comments.
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@ jefe
He did have a WordPress blog, what you are probably thinking of, but he deleted it. Not sure why. He does still have a Blogspot blog, but all it has are four posts from back in February:
http://anscribhneoirgael-mheiriceanach.blogspot.com/
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LOLZ!
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”
Update (July 12th): As per his request, I have deleted all of Lord of Mirkwood’s comments.”
So, what is this?
“on Wed 27 May 2015 at 19:23:14
Notes on Gro Jo | lordofmirkwood
[…] Jo is a troll on WordPressdom. I have gotten into spats with him here, here, and also here. He has been commenting on Abagond’s blog for quite some time, but I just met […]”
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@ gro jo
Thanks. Those are gone too.
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It’s been discussed already but i couldn’t help wondering why he didn’t work on cultivating his on blog?
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Why does it take men and white people so long to see and call out bullies for what & who they really are?
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@ Mary Burell
I guess that to maintain a blog like this one (Abagond’s blog) requires a lot effort, dedication and patience. I don’t think that those items are easy to cultivate.
I suspect also that some characters that came here, years ago (xPraetorius, for example) and also recently, tried to use this blog in an attempt to boast their own blogs or ideologies. They created a lot of brouhaha here to draw, at some point, attention to their own work elsewhere. Kind of free advertising using a popular public space…
The problem they all had/have is that what attracts people to this space is not easily replicated in other spaces.
Just some thoughts (=opinions).
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As sort of a side point, what people need to understand is that free speech does not mean that you get to say whatever you want and not expect consequences if what you said is harmful. A lot of folks defend themselves after bullying others by using the ‘free speech’ argument, and act like they’re victims of “oppression” when people use their freedoms to tell them off or remove them from the conversation.
I bet that’s what Lord of Mirkwood is thinking right now.
Freedom of speech is not a license to deliver insults, and doing so only makes one look less intelligent than they believe they are, assuming they’re serious. But I think guys like Lord is mainly just in it for the kicks, saying all the things that would provoke negative reactions just for sheer amusement.
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“My model for a thread is a dinner conversation.”
You should learn to curb your penchant to play favorites as you did on the Mao thread.
You let Kiwi accuse me of being a racist, helpfully volunteered that “Great Leap Forward denial” was a thing, and tried to hold me up to ridicule me with the following: ” on Sun 22 Nov 2015 at 13:24:35
abagond
@ gro jo
There was no Holocaust – there would have been riots.
There was no police brutality in the US between Rodney King and Michael Brown – there would have been riots.”
It led to the following exchange: “…The LA riots were figments of my imagination? Did you really write this rubbish? Are you not aware of the Warsaw uprising staged by Jews against the Nazis? Were you sober when you penned your comment or were you and Kiwi drinking the same poison? My reasoning in this matter is simple, extreme repression leads to resistance as the Rodney King and Michael Brown incidents did. Stalin’s predations on the peoples of the Soviet Union provided Hitler with a ready made fifth column when the Wehrmacht attacked the USSR. The fact that my buddy Kiwi seemed to be unaware of the incipient civil war occurring in the Ukraine prior to WWII led me to question his sobriety. Where are the severely developmentally impaired Chinese 56 to 55 year olds born during the famine? Where are the grieving millions of relatives of the dead, those who starved and those who rose up, rioted and were shot like rabid dogs? The Chinese have a pretty violent history and a developed sense of justice, Kiwi will no doubt find me “racist” for this claim, they don’t passively starve to death. Weapons were readily available to the average Chinese in 1959-1960 as Dongping Han indicated in his article.
”
on Sun 22 Nov 2015 at 13:49:54
Kiwi
I distinctly remember North Koreans rebelling against their government during the North Korean famine in the 90s and toppling Kim Jong-il’s regime, leading to Korean reunification. Oh, wait…” Cute but nonsensical.
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on Sun 22 Nov 2015 at 20:52:59
abagond
@ gro jo
Maybe I was not drunk. Maybe you misunderstood what I said.
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on Sun 22 Nov 2015 at 21:40:36
gro jo
Ok, maybe I did, please explain what you meant. I recall riots after the Rodney King thing, was I hallucinating? Maybe you were trying to say that “mass incidents” i.e. riots don’t always follow oppressive measures. I can’t argue with that, but they usually do. I don’t come here merely to antagonize you and you(r) friend Kiwi. I think you guys are wrong about this event and I’m trying to understand why.”
If you played your “genial host” role correctly, you’d avoid some of the problems you’re apologizing for.
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“You let Kiwi accuse me of being a racist, helpfully volunteered that “Great Leap Forward denial” was a thing, and tried to hold me up to ridicule me with the following:”
“me” after ridicule should be eliminated.
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LOM a bully? Wow, he seemed too effete.
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Very funny Abagond. Your little joke tells me that your apology is insincere. Why else would you delete my comment and leave my request to correct a typo as if it were the comment itself?
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@ gro jo
Your comment Is in moderation.
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What for?
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@ gro jo
It was moderated for the “bish” in rubbish.
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Abagond, you “bish” this is pure comedic genius!
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Awww that word was still moderated after all this time? It was what GR would use to get around calling me a b*tch.
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Indeed.
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OK. Getting good again……
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I want to read more of your cirka jerk jokes!
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@ Brothawolf:
Amen.
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My model for a thread is a dinner conversation.
All right.
Then I’ll fetch my dinner jacket, a glass of cognac and a cigar, and take my position at the fire place.
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abagond
How you had treated Fan… who was a truth -teller, whilst aiding and abetting a virulent white supremacist, is unforgivable. That you have banned resw, who was consistently a commenter of highest integrity and Nomad, who if you had the decency to visited his blog, enough to have known that he also was a truth-teller, too. Or interested in understanding truth.
I have not accepted your non-apology.
You, whoever you are, behind the persona of an African African man of Jamaican descent, is deceitful.
resw had caught you out in lie after lie.
You have sold your soul to Mephistopheles. Your words have no integrity or worth. That you would rather pander to a sexual deviant against an African women speaks volumes about you.
Yes, you can write what you like. You are a peddler of lies and disinformation about very important subjects, eg.the chattel enslavement of Africans by jews and American imperialism.
I truly hope the lawsuit resw has against ends you once and for all.
If not, at least exposes the fraud that you are.
What I do know, while doing extensive research ( after reading the ‘Secret Relationship Between Blacks and jews”) which you have not written on and finding out why our world is so upside down, are because of people like you.
No wonder you hated me enough to put a white attack dog like mirkwood on me. Not unlike who was behind the KKK.
You are not Black, neither are you white.
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@ taotesan
Is there anything I can do to somehow make it up to you?
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“For dinner parties you can invite up to two Black people. At least that is what I gather from searching for ‘dinner party’ on Google Images.”
I just thought of that comment and laughed when I saw this image in a magazine article:
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