United Airlines Flight 3411 in the US, from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky, is now world infamous for violently removing a passenger, a 69-year-old man, David Dao, on Sunday April 9th 2017. United Airlines wanted to give his seat to an employee. Dao refused, saying he was a doctor who had patients to see the next morning. According to a witness, Dao felt United chose him because he was Chinese. United says he (and three others) were selected “at random.”
Slogan: Fly the Friendly Skies.
According to Chicago police (bolding mine):
“At approximately 6:00 p.m., A 69-year-old male Asian airline passenger became irate after he was asked to disembark from a flight that was oversold. The passenger in question began yelling to voice his displeasure at which point Aviation Police were summoned. Aviation Officers arrived on scene attempted to carry the individual off of the flight when he fell. His head subsequently struck an armrest causing injuries to his face. The man was taken to Lutheran General Hospital with non-life threatening injuries.”
Two days later he is still there.
The Louisville Courier-Journal, meanwhile, has dutifully dug up his police record – a courtesy the US press extends to victims of police violence.
Remarks:
- “Asian” – it is hard to imagine them doing this to a White doctor. The Chicago police department is already under a consent decree to reform its violent, racist practices – or it was till last week when US Attorney General Jeff Sessions put it on hold.
- “Fell” – it was hardly an accident:
Citizen videos show police pulling him out of his seat by force while he screams and then dragging his limp body down the aisle like a sack of potatoes, with blood coming from his mouth. Later Dao, his face bloodied, somehow gets back on the plane. He keeps saying, “Just kill me.”
Viral: The videos spread like wildfire across the Internet, particularly on Twitter in the US and Weibo in China. Many in China see it as racist and are calling for a boycott. United has 96 flights a week that go directly to China.
Fauxpology: On Monday, Oscar Munoz, the head of United, said:
“This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers.”
Re-accommodate!
People’s Daily in China found this “gravely disappointing” for having “mentioned nothing of the violence against the Asian passenger.”
Later that night Munoz, in an email to employees, shifted blame onto Dao for being “disruptive and belligerent” and said employees had
“followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this.”
Tuesday, after the stock market value of United Airlines lost nearly $600 million,
Munoz offered a new apology. Now the event was not merely “upsetting”
but “truly horrific”, and he offered not merely an apology but his
“deepest apologies”.
The Chicago Department of Aviation, unlike United, said the actions of the Aviation Officers were
“not in accordance with our standard operating procedure”
It has put the officer in question, who is Black, on leave while it looks into the matter.
– Abagond, 2017.
Sources: especially @harrysiegel (of the Daily Beast), BBC, NPR, Shanghaiist, New York magazine, Louisville Courier-Journal, New York Times.
See also:
- Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad – last week’s PR disaster
- fauxpology
- Jeff Sessions
- The police
- Chicago police
- United Airlines: “Interview” – a 2004 ad, in happier days
570
@ Abagond
“The Chicago police, unlike United, said its actions were ‘not in accordance with our standard operating procedure’.”
Over on the Open Thread, I mistakenly attributed this statement to United, which after checking the Chicago Tribune story I’d linked to, I see was faulty memory and/or lax reading on my part.
The Trib attributed the statement to the Chicago Department of Aviation, the entity which apparently employs the officers. A quick google search hasn’t shed much light on whether and/or how exactly this department is connected to the city police (and I don’t have time tonight to look more thoroughly), but apparently the aviation officers are not quite the same thing.
I did find an article from the Chicago Sun-Times that says the aviation police “receive more training and are better paid than private security guards, but receive less training and pay than members of the Chicago Police Department.”
It also states:
“Thirty years ago Mayor Richard M. Daley turned O’Hare Airport’s security guards into their own certified police force within the Aviation Department, and for nearly as long, those officers have been agitating for the right to carry guns like the real police….
“But from the start, there has been an argument over whether they should be authorized to carry guns to deal with emergencies, which their level of training would allow if they were working for say a suburban police department. The city has argued it’s not necessary and that more people carrying guns would make the airports less secure not more.
“Just recently in response to a new push by Ald. Chris Taliaferro (29th) to arm the 300 aviation officers who work at O’Hare and Midway, Finance Chairman Edward Burke (14th) suggested incorporating them into the Police Department at a lesser level to make that possible.
“Other options are to turn their duties over to Chicago police, who also staff the airports, or to a private security firm. But, as it is, we can’t hire enough police to deal with our violent neighborhoods, and armed private security poses its own problems.
“I know better than to judge this issue on the basis of one incident, but I’m extremely doubtful many of the passengers aboard Flight 3411 would have felt more secure if the three uniformed officers who carried out the airline’s dirty work were carrying firearms.”
LikeLike
As a abagond mentioned up thread the media was quick to point out his “criminal” background which entailed trading some prescription medication for sex from a sex worker. Consensual “crimes” are nobodies business and deflects away from the Police violence leveled at someone likely picked because of his race.
I’m glad United stock tanked.
In regards to Solitare questioning armed Airport police I don’t have a problem with that if they are professionally trained. It would make me feel safer and make the airport safer if it were attacked by an armed individual or group. Most massacres happen in “gun free zones”.
LikeLike
re: MJB,
This is a tricky and loaded statement to make, which is why I brought it up in the Open thread. I am wondering what leads people to that conclusion.
I am not really sure the degree, if any, to which race was a factor in what transpired. I am curious how one may arrive to the conclusion one way or the other. UA insists that it was random, or at best, based on an algorithm or protocol that is not race-based. Until I know further, I may have to give UA the benefit of the doubt (despite how it “feels”).
Also, given that two of the officers, including the one placed on administrative leave, are black, and assuming that race may have been a factor (yet to be confirmed), it raises questions concerning if the decision to select the passenger used race as a factor or if the decision to use (what appeared to be excessive) force used race as a factor.
It does not surprise me that the doctor suggested that race was a factor. This follows the experience of many Asian Americans of being bullied by authority or otherwise treated as less than deserving of consideration. If any of those have been race related, they will look at that and think it was race related too (even though it has not been confirmed). They will also think that elderly white men do not get that kind of treatment.
Of what I have seen in HK so far, some think it is, but for others, that is not the first thing that comes to their mind. They may think it is something “American” performed by greedy US corporations.
I read that almost 500 million users of Sina Weibo have read about it, and it would not surprise me that many of them may think race is a factor. But after learning that he was Vietnamese-born, that could change things (ie, Vietnamese may deserve to be mistreated depending on how state run media wants to play it – despite the fact that the victim is actually an American) It would depend on whether it would help to dislodge a US company or not (eg, if Chinese airlines could dislodge UA air routes). But Chinese airline companies do not have a good image either. Mainland Chinese often throw much more violent, even dangerous temper tantrums – way beyond what you would see from an Asian American.
LikeLike
I’m not sure why the multiple redundant posts.
@Jefe.
It’s possible he was randomly chosen but his ejection would have been handled differently if he had been white.
LikeLike
I look forward to more of the same violence against POC in the pro corporatist Trump/ Sessions era of “law and order” Now that Gorsuch is on the bench, the fascist regime will be in full effect. You’re right, Abagond, I find it difficult to believe this would occur with a white doctor.
LikeLike
@MJB
Yes, I get that that is your claim.
But assuming that there is some fact to that claim, does it make a difference who decides how it should have been handled? Did the UA personnel make that decision, or the airport police officers make the decision to use violent force?
We don’t know the racial background of the UA personnel making the selection decision or who instructed the officers to act (for all we know, it could have been an elderly Asian male), but we do know that 2 of the officers were black, including the one who dropped the doctor’s head against the arm rest and who dragged him out of the aircraft. If he and his colleagues played any role in the decision of how to handle the situation, do you think that they believe that that level of force was justified with an elderly Asian male passenger, but not against a white passenger? This (your assertion) suggests that even black police officers (at least these, I am not saying others or all of them) believe the handling method was appropriate for this particular passenger, but not if the passenger had been white.
My hypothesis: there may be some unwritten rules in US society which govern how people decide how to treat people differently according to race, and it is not only white people which absorb these “rules”. I don’t know to frame it exactly, but it seems that Asians/muslims/latinos might absorb some rules about treating blacks (eg, that they are “wild” or “aggressive” and need to be restrained), and blacks/muslims/latinos might absorb rules about treating Asians, ie, if an Asian is somehow unruly, you can bully them or keep them in line with an aggressive stance.
Otherwise, how can we say he would have been handled differently if he had been white?
LikeLike
how come they chose this guy? weren’t there any muslims on this flight? weren’t there any black people?
LikeLiked by 1 person
United deserves to be sued out the wazoo. And i noticed how they asassinated this gentleman’s character which had nothing to do with him being assaulted on the flight. He got the treatment black people get just trying to live their everyday lives. I can’t help but wonder if this had been a black or Muslim passenger what would have been outcome.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“Dao refused, saying he was a doctor who had patients to see the next morning.”
Did he actually say that or did another passenger say that? From the video, we can only hear him screaming like a maniac.
“United says he (and three others) were selected “at random.””
LOL! Unless you have some evidence to doubt the SEAT NUMBERS, which is STANDARD PRACTISE on every airline in the event there are no volunteers, were selected “at random”, it’s just another of abagond’s many conspiracy theories.
““Asian” – it is hard to imagine them doing this to a White doctor.”
You must be kidding. Being a doctor does not get one special privileges on airlines. If he was so concerned about seeing his patients the next day, he could have easily used the $800 United offered and hired a driver to take him a mere 300 miles to Louisville.
And what needs to be clear is that his refusal to leave was a FEDERAL OFFENCE. He not only should be convicted (yet again), he should be banned from United for his behavior.
LikeLike
@ Solitaire
Good point. From the news accounts I read it seemed that the airport police were part of the Chicago police department, but maybe the relationship is not so straightforward as that.
As to the “not in accordance” statement, I looked back through my sources and that did come from the Chicago Department of Aviation, as you noted. I corrected the post. Thank you!
LikeLike
@sribh aka lord of mirkwood
“That is why ambulances can run red lights.”
Is that your desperate attempt to fabricate that this doctor had an emergency? Another passenger said, as abagond wrote, he “had patients to see the NEXT MORNING. Not the same day.
And as I said, if he were so concerned about seeing patients the NEXT MORNING, he could have EASILY used the $800 and hired a driver to take him to Louisville, KY. He was not going across the world. Just 300 miles away.
@”I’m glad United stock tanked”
LOL. OK if you consider closing 1.13% lower to be tanking. UAL has seen much worse days.
@”United deserves to be sued out the wazoo”
And what did United do wrong again? The officers, employees of Chicago Police Dept., dragged him out. And it’s not like they put him in a choke hold or beat him. They did exactly what they were supposed to do with an unruly passenger who COMMITS A FEDERAL OFFENCE by refusing to leave.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ jefe
Last year United kicked off over 3,000 people from flights against their will. You would have to look at that pool to see if there were any racial disparities compared to their customers as a whole.
Also, computer algorithms can have a racially disparate impact, even when they do not use race explicitly. Geico’s algorithms, for example, wind up charging Blacks more for car insurance, even when you control for other factors, using your address as a proxy for race. Herneith linked to an excellent article on that on the Open Thread:
https://www.propublica.org/article/minority-neighborhoods-higher-car-insurance-premiums-white-areas-same-risk?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter
LikeLiked by 1 person
A 69 year old doctor.
LikeLike
@ jefe
Policing in the US, since at least the 1700s, has been set up to protect White people and White property (= United Airlines in this case). It comes as no surprise to me that they would rough up an Asian man who did not know his place.
That the officer was Black did not help, unfortunately. He should have “known better”, but Blacks take in all the anti-Asian messages in US society just like everyone else.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood
“He wasn’t able to see his patients in any event after the O’Hare police brutality landed him in a hospital bed”
Dragging someone out who refuses to leave, which is a FEDERAL CRIME, is not brutality.
Brutality is getting shot like Philando Castile and Alton Sterling.
Funny that I didn’t see you defending any of them! Oh right, they’re black.
And yeah, Dao was so injured was able to run back onto the flight.
“Oh, and maybe he had to get back home to his office before the appointments to do some preparation work, sort some papers, remind himself of the specifics of the cases.”
AGAIN, $800 would have afforded him a comfortable ride to Louisville. COMMITING A FEDERAL OFFENCE by refusing to leave sure didn’t get him there any quicker.
So try those BS excuses on someone else
“Should I be worried that you sound like the fascist Trump?”
You should be worried that you sound like him since his Press Secretary called the video “troubling”.
I, on the other hand, see it for what it is. You racists are just upset that 2 black guys would not extend special privileges to a non-black person.
LikeLiked by 1 person
He didn’t fall. He was dragged out and his face smashed into the armrest across the aisle.
LikeLike
Reblogged this on League of Bloggers For a Better World.
LikeLike
Abagond, I’m very disappointed in you giving aid and sucre to our enemy in the time of race war. This is race war – race war Abagond, do not give aid to our Asian enemies. Look at this doctor’s record. What an evil man. Evil!
https://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
We should not call him a doctor. That part of his life is long done. He is a drug dealing race baiting man molester.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-united-doctor-airlines-louisville-kentucky-passenger-removed-video-photos/
Are these the types of people you want to be associated with? We should not be surprised that he is a sexual deviant, after all, Chinese is a subspecies of Jew. Notice that he is using the same mind games and logical fallacies that are part and parcel of the racial infiltrator:
http://bigstory.ap.org/ae81a66dbc124acbad52e3cf8de9617d
He’s using mind games to try get a black man to lose his job! Disgusting!
Speaking of black men being targeted by Asians in the United States, have you seen their genocide plan?
This is just sick. Imagine coming home one night, only to hear your wife squealing ecstatically to the tune of a K-Pop soundtrack. You open the bedroom door, only to to see, on your matrimonial bed, your wife on all fours, her mouth salivating like some cow, her breasts swing back and forth like clock pendulums, her massive, juicy, sumptuous, ass, booty rippling, with booty shockwaves basically silhouetting, at collarbone height, some little yellowbellied bucktoothed grad student mounted behind your wife as she tightly squeezes his little peepee to till its purple, while he thrusts clumsily, as he tries desperately not let his meticulously designed Cloud Strife cosplay costume fall off. Black King Kong defeated by yellow ding dong.
This is the future for all of us black men. To be cuckolded. By Asians. Unless we see fight. Look at what they are up to:
Have you also forgotten Latasha Harlins, or Akai Gurley? Hunted and killed like animals! That is what they think of us as. Mere animals. And you want to side with these people Abagond? Really?
LikeLiked by 3 people
So this guy (David Dao) was having gay sex with patients and he’s married
http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
You have to laugh.
[img]https://media1.giphy.com/media/xUPOqrl3x2SkKjE3Is/200.webp#3[/img]
So Jackie Chan has been trading getting his sh*t pushed in for getting his patients high
@Abagond This is NOT our fight. How many Asians u see out there protesting and speaking up for black people?
F**K THEM
Talk to black Africans in Delhi or China about what Asians are like when they have some muscle behind them and can call shots.
If the shoe was on the other foot the Asian community would be silent. Most of them will agree with white ppl when it comes to police brutality against black ppl.
This man will be alright after he sues and gets compensated. He’ll go right back to brown nosing white people.
Many Asians can’t stand black people and suck the d*ck of white supremacy.
Like AirBNB a few days ago.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPq8lUQcI_0)
The guy told her “This why I’m glad Trump is in office. So we don’t have to deal with you ppl”
And she was like
https://media0.giphy.com/media/3ohzdMk3uz9WSpdTvW/200.webp#5
But I was like
https://media4.giphy.com/media/PRQ6McRJQ4vnO/200.webp#9
This Asian chick was saying “Racism is alive and well” Well, we’ve been telling you that sh*t !!
And they’re even robbing the famous blacklivesmatter hash tag. Can’t even think of their own.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/united-airlines-thousands-sign-chineselivesmatter-petition-as-people-cut-up-airline-cards-in-mass-a3512866.htm
LikeLiked by 5 people
This incident is pretty awful no matter who it is. The fact that this was an elderly gentleman was horrible.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
I refuted each one of your BS “factors” with actual facts, so what are you complaining about? Because I called out your racism for what it is?
If it’s not, then tell us why you’re so adamantly defending this guy for getting removed by 2 black officers only after he refused to obey the flight attendants and then the officers?
And where were your BS excuses for and adamant defense of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling after they were killed by white officers?
You were dead silent.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@”He should have “known better”, but Blacks take in all the anti-Asian messages in US society just like everyone else”
So abagond actually expects the black officers to not do their job and grant special privileges to someone just because he’s Asian.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I refuted each one of your BS “factors” with actual facts, so what are you complaining about? Because I called out your racism for what it is?
It is what is.
An Asian drug-dealing race-baiting pervert at that.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood
“I expressed this very subtly, almost imperceptibly, by calling for the complete and total disarmament of all U.S. cops.”
Seriously, do you have an honest bone in your body?
As you know, that is not anything close to giving excuses for and adamantly defending Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, as you defended this unruly passenger who was not beaten, not shot, not placed in a choke hold, etc.
So no, you didn’t defend Castile and Sterling or come up with a bunch of BS excuses for them. And we all know why.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood
“How did he get a bloodied face, then?”
Since your dishonest attempt to claim you defending Castile and Sterling didn’t work out, yes, let’s now take a look at the “bloodied face”.
I don’t know how he got a “bloodied face” and NEITHER DO YOU.
But I’m not surprised someone who was dragged over two seats while kicking, screaming, wearing eyeglasses, then through the aisle bobbing his head back to play dead, would get scratched in the process.
“At this point you are just farting distinctions without differences and alt-facts.”
Please. Unlike me, you haven’t said one factual thing yet.
And it’s absolutely disgusting, but typical of someone as racist as you, to compare real police brutality (with guns) against innocent blacks to the mere removal (without handcuffs or weapons) of this man who was BELLIGERENTLY violating federal law just to get a special privilege.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I feel horrible for how they mistreated this man. With him being an older gentleman I really feel this could have been handled must better, but my my my how the tides have turned. Most of the Asian community was dead silent when blacks were mistreated and the moment they get a taste of it they want to scream injustice.
Sucks that they were black, but…..what goes around comes around.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Trust and believe this would not have been done to a white person.
LikeLike
Resw
So federal law is somehow more Holy and violating it justifies violence even against old men.
Its a “FEDERAL OFFENSE” (lol) to not give your seat up after you paid for it when an airline arbitrarily decides you need to get off so some of their own can have your seat.
The “special privilage” was awarded to whoever got his seat.
He wasn’t seeking a special privilage rather he was resisting having his private space that he paid for violated.
When strangers lay hands upon you resisting is quite natural.
LikeLike
Please, it happens often. There are lots of videos on people being forcibly removed, including white people. The difference is that most people actually get up on 2 feet when the police come and grab them out of their seats.
Dao is the only person I’ve ever seen who suddenly decided to play dead as he was being taken away. And definitely the only one I’ve seen with the gall to run back onto the plane after two armed police officers forced him out.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@michaeljonbarker
“So federal law is somehow more Holy and violating it justifies violence even against old men”
Being old doesn’t grant you or Dao a special right to break the law.
“Its a “FEDERAL OFFENSE” (lol) to not give your seat up”
I don’t recall ever saying that it was. It is, however, a federal crime to disobey flight attendants’ repeated requests. If you cared to research the law, you would know this.
“He wasn’t seeking a special privilage rather he was resisting having his private space that he paid for violated.”
He was being compensated more than the cost of the flight. $800 could have bought him a private car ride to Louisville, as I said numerous times before.
The rule is, if there are no volunteers to leave, then passenger seat numbers are selected randomly. Unlike the others who were selected, he thought he had some special right to stay.
And people like you are defending the childish temper tantrum he threw because he did not get his way.
LikeLiked by 1 person
When you purchase your ticket, you agree to abide by the policies of the airline. If you or Dao don’t like them, then you should find another way to travel (we sure could use a lot less overentitled people on our flights anyway).
LA Times did a piece on this a few weeks ago, and specifically says:
“If Delta overbooks its flight and can’t get enough passengers to voluntarily give up their seats, the airline may remove passengers in coach first before turning to travelers in first class or business class or to loyalty reward members with elite status. United has a similar policy.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-contract-of-carriage-20170330-htmlstory.html
LikeLiked by 1 person
LOM
“it seems as though police violence is only police violence when it’s done against black people.”—Well let us all praise the fact that most of what something seems to you is wrong.
Tired of racist whites trying to speak on the mindset of black people.
LikeLiked by 3 people
“Otherwise, how can we say he would have been handled differently if he had been white?” – jefe
It’s NOT “how can we say he would have been handled differently”, in the alternative, it’s what history teaches us. This in turn, affords US, WE or a collective of people to then retort with an abundance of confidence, as you put it, “handled differently if he had been white.”
History is a great teacher, you should try it! Moreover, if I’m not mistaken, I believe you stated a while ago, that you’re a former teacher. If in fact, this is the case, you should definitely know better.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ MJB
“In regards to Solitare questioning armed Airport police I don’t have a problem with that if they are professionally trained. It would make me feel safer and make the airport safer if it were attacked by an armed individual or group. Most massacres happen in ‘gun free zones’.”
O’Hare Airport is not a gun-free zone. As noted in the part of the article I quoted above, the Chicago Police Dept. also has officers on duty at the airport; it may not be clear from that quote, but those CPD officers are armed. O’Hare also allows travellers to fly with firearms as long as they follow proper procedure.
The questioning was in the quote and reflected the author’s opinion. I myself have mixed feelings. You’re correct that it would make the airport safer if it were attacked. Also, it could be argued that arming the aviation security officers would lessen the need for CPD officers at the airport and allow them to be reassigned to more important beats.
On the other hand, “professionally trained” police officers shoot unarmed U.S. citizens regularly. If those aviation officers had been armed, Dao may have well been shot instead of just roughed up.
LikeLike
Dr. Dao did not have the option to use the $800 to pay a private driver for a car ride to Louisville. As has been widely reported, the $800 came in the form of a voucher only good for a United flight. The total package being offered was the voucher and an overnight hotel stay in exchange for taking a flight the next afternoon, almost 24 hours later.
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/04/11/heres-what-happened-united-flight-3411/100333378/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express_Flight_3411_incident
Dao was a paying customer upset over being denied the service he had legally purchased. He was treated like he was a terrorist suspect.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ satanforce @TheHipHopRecords
So basically what you’re saying is Dao was no angel and he got what he had coming to him.
LikeLike
“It has put the officer in question, who is Black, on leave while it looks into the matter.”
Oh no, Kiwi is going to have a field day with this.
A disgusting display of corporate arrogance.
LikeLike
“Being a doctor does not get one special privileges on airlines.”
Perhaps it should, since airlines rely on physician passengers to provide emergency medical care without any compensation.
LikeLiked by 1 person
When responding to LOM, sharinalr said: “Tired of racist whites trying to speak on the mindset of black people.”
Sharina, do not pay Lord of Mirkwood any attention. People of his ilk have that deeply imbedded trait of hate. Personally, I believe it would be best if you’d give him the treatment of an inconsequential knat on the wall.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@hiphoprecords
The sad joke is that, with over a billion of them, their lives don’t really matter that much. Is there a Chinese shortage 3 I haven’t heard of it. Have you?
LikeLiked by 2 people
No. I am more general. Asians are no angels and they are getting what’s coming to them. Except the Japanese. And the Koreans and the south Asians. And the Russians.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
“he is getting all bent out of shape about this because he is racist against Asians.”
Too bad you have not an iota of evidence to prove that. But we know how thirsty you are.
“If they had been just a little nicer they wouldn’t have been brutalized.”
You still have not shown how he was “brutalized”. Where’s the proof? Jefe got caught fabricating a “beating”, then you repeated that nonsense here.
So tell us what the officers did wrong? And if you can’t pick up a kicking and screaming maniac who refuses to leave, how else do you remove them?
None of you who have defended this unruly, overentitled brat has been able tell us how the officers should have responded.
Nary a one of you.
“The hypocrisy displayed by certain individuals on this thread is astounding.”
The only hypocrites are racists like you who have not uttered a peep about innocent blacks getting killed by white police officers but are suddenly adamantly defending a guilty Asian who was not beaten and certainly not killed by two black officers.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“LOL. Said by the person who has repeatedly excused and called for ethnic cleansing.” – LOM
When did I say something about ethnic cleansing??
“Oh, and I shed that old name over three months ago now.” – LOM
Different name, same sh)t! Just as a chameleon that changes colors, nonetheless, it is still a chameleon.
You are so funny with your empty posts. So much so, that I highly encourage you to join a comedic circuit. I am certain that you’ll do quite well.
PS: How is the search for thy father? You know within your that you’re not of Celtic heritage, …right? They were Black people!
LikeLike
resw, did you forget to take your meds again?
“When you purchase your ticket, you agree to abide by the policies of the airline. If you or Dao don’t like them, then you should find another way to travel (we sure could use a lot less overentitled people on our flights anyway).”
Didn’t the bus driver say something similar to Rosa Parks before calling the cops on her? You are an idiot. It’s not only Black people who are sick and tired of being treated like things.
LikeLike
@gro jo
Yet Asians were okay being things and watching other be treated as things, so I doubt they are tired just yet. They have done nothing so far but be Facebook drama queens. I’m curious to see when they will actually make moves.
LikeLiked by 3 people
@LOM
Changing a name won’t make you any less of a liar and a hypocrite. You cared more about a dang gorilla than you did about black people actually dying.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The difference here is that, Rosa Parks was chosen BECAUSE of her race, on the other hand, Dao was chosen IN SPITE of his race! This appears to be a statement regarding the difference between a giraffe and a llama.
Llama
Giraffe
LikeLiked by 1 person
Did you see that?
https://news.vice.com/story/video-shows-sacramento-cop-throwing-black-man-to-the-ground-for-jaywalking
LikeLiked by 1 person
@gro jo
“Didn’t the bus driver say something similar to Rosa Parks before calling the cops on her? ”
No.
The fact that you would even try comparing Dao to Rosa Parks just shows how desperate and thirsty you are for attention.
Or maybe you can point out the specific policy that was enforced that says Asians have to give up their seats on airlines for white passengers.
I’ll wait.
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
“I see that your new line of attack on me is that because I didn’t say anything specifically about the personal lives of Sterling and Castile back in July, I’m not qualified to say anything now.”
No, I just called your racism and hypocrisy for what it is. Nothing new.
And I’m still waiting for your proof Dao was “brutalized”.
Still waiting on proof of a “beating”.
Still waiting on your legal instructions for officers to properly handle someone who belligerently refuses to leave after repeatedly requests.
“However, I do hope Dao sues United out the wazoo”
And what’s he going to sue United for? Tell us the legal claims he has.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And where were all of you sudden (and phony) defenders of airline passengers when these women were dragged off planes?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLecmaAZax4)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wru9PyZTBv8)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlJXXsjhs0)
LikeLiked by 2 people
Solitare
I did reply to you but Abagond deemed my reply to offensive and hardcore to be shown but I did reply to you.
LikeLike
Oh, I see Abagond, only certain people can use that dreaded “idiot” word without having the post deleted! (smh) You need to delete gro jo’s post for the sake of fairness and consistency.
@gro jo, quit referring to anyone as being an “idiot”, especially a female. When you wake up in the morning, do whatever you need to do. Release some flatulence, stretch or yawn. But when you stand up off of the edge of your bed, be a man. We are supposed to be adults here, so therefore, behave like one!
Channeling satanforce for a moment, you are acting like a “circe-jerk.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ gro jo
Commented deleted for moderated language.
LikeLike
@TheHipHopRecords
Comments deleted for moderated language.
LikeLike
@blakksage
If it’s done by one of his campaign colleagues and is directed toward certain commenters (especially me), abagond doesn’t care about moderated words until you point out his double standard.
And recently, abagond sneakily removed that word from his comment policy, so don’t be surprised when he starts letting his colleagues use that word in the future.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ gro jo
Comment restored. “Idiot” is not a moderated word. My apologies.
LikeLike
^and that’s exactly why abagond recently and sneakily removed that word from his moderated words list. Expect abagond to continue removing more moderated words that his colleagues often use in lieu of cogent arguments to support their BS claims.
LikeLike
Turning off troll-mode (add that to “circe-jerk”) for a moment, it would seem that Asians (bear with me a moment), have been studying popular movements like Black Lives Matter and using the same Internet and sloganeering techniques they have used. Look at the whole Liang/Gurley “Two Lives , One Tragedy” mess-up.
So if the “Asians” are watching what black people are doing, why aren’t they reaching out to blacks? I’m not talking the second-generation academic po-mo types but:
The poor bastards in New York getting the shit beaten out of them when they’re in the subway or delivering food
The Korean store owners who are still in the ghetto after 20 years because the upstream Koreans have them on credit that makes pay-day loans seem like the New Deal.
The Asian in Philly who get the shit beaten out of them at school
The emasculation of Asian men in the media
And so on.
I think that they feel not only superior to blacks, but also have an inferiority complex. So they use these BLM techniques to sate their self-pity. Go through their forums and you’ll see what I mean. They complain about blacks getting affirmative action and taking college places from them (actually its white women that benefit but whatever). Rather than go against the Power Structure, they would rather blame blacks, and say that their poverty is self-inflicted. That they need to sacrifice and Tiger Mom. To the “Asian”, racism is something that they actually experience. What happens to black people is either entirely deserved ,whining, or ust a race-baiting move to con the welfare state and bleeding-heart liberals. Black people just don’t know how to eat bitter. But they will learn. They will learn too late. But they will learn.
Oh, and I only turn off troll mode for one comment per post.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“sharinalr
@gro jo
Yet Asians were okay being things and watching other be treated as things, so I doubt they are tired just yet. They have done nothing so far but be Facebook drama queens. I’m curious to see when they will actually make moves.”
What a load of bs. Asians have borne the brunt of the struggle for human rights in the twentieth century. They destroyed the White colonial system that oppressed them and paid with millions dead in China, Vietnam, etc. You might recall that one of MLK’s inspirations was Gandhi, an Asian, I believe. When did it become ‘black’ to make excuses for corporations that violate people’s right to travel unmolested? Get off the stupid oppression Olympics kick.
“@gro jo, quit referring to anyone as being an “idiot”, especially a female.”
Thanks for the advice, I hope you won’t be too hurt because I ignore it.
“resw
@gro jo
“Didn’t the bus driver say something similar to Rosa Parks before calling the cops on her? ”
No.
The fact that you would even try comparing Dao to Rosa Parks just shows how desperate and thirsty you are for attention.
Or maybe you can point out the specific policy that was enforced that says Asians have to give up their seats on airlines for white passengers.
I’ll wait.”
You see, my little resw, there’s such thing as individuals having the right to live their lives unmolested by governments or corporations, as a shill for such entities, that notion is a scandal and an abomination to you, but it is the opinion of the majority, regardless of race, nationality, etc., hence the howls of outrage at the way Dr. Dao was treated, but you wouldn’t understand, having sold your humanity for a few lousy bucks some time ago.
“abagond
@ gro jo
Comment restored. “Idiot” is not a moderated word. My apologies.”
Apologies accepted, but it does show how arbitrary your policy is.
“An Asian drug-dealing race-baiting pervert at that.”
satanforce, tell us how Dr Dao was drug-dealing, race-baiting and engaging in his perversion by taking his seat on a plane that United deliberately overbooked? If you can’t then your comment is nonsense.
How stupid of you all to make this about race, proclivities, everything under the sun but what it really is, the arrogance of corporate aholes to treat the rest as cattle. Let me guess, all of you aspire to be these corporate aholes.
LikeLike
Sorry. I left out that he was a compulsive gambler. That should tell you.
So?
LikeLiked by 1 person
@gro jo
I will gather that you engaged in sarcasm. Kiwi would be inlove.
LikeLike
@gro jo
Nice of you to engage in sarcasm.
“They destroyed the White colonial system that oppressed them and paid with millions dead in China, Vietnam, etc.”—Is that why they are steeped in white worship?
As to Gandhi, he didn’t like blacks so MLK was a fool to be inspired by that.
” Get off the stupid oppression Olympics kick.”—As soon as Asians stop pretending they were the face of the civil rights movement or any major human rights movement to date.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@abagond
thought my first comment disappeared there for a moment.
LikeLike
“satanforce
Sorry. I left out that he was a compulsive gambler. That should tell you.
So?”
I’ll put in a good word for you with Human resources. Talent like you should be closely monitored for future promotion.
“sharinalr
@gro jo
I will gather that you engaged in sarcasm. Kiwi would be inlove.”
No he wouldn’t based on my long battle with him on the legacy of Mao. I’m just telling it like it is, without fear or favor.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So idiot is no longer a moderated word?
That one really got stuck in my head back in the Alt-Right thread, when my comments kept getting thrown to moderation because I was quoting another commenter who used the word idiot frequently. That was when it first struck me that if I didn’t want to get thrown to mod, I had to pay close attention not just to what I said but to any previous comments I quoted.
I don’t remember any of those uses of idiot getting deleted, though.
LikeLike
@ satanforce
“Except the Japanese. And the Koreans and the south Asians. And the Russians.”
Why those exceptions?
LikeLike
“Is that why they are steeped in white worship?”
As opposed to blacks who are completely immune to that stuff? We don’t live in the same world. I know more than my fair share of blacks afflicted with that malady. I’m sure you do as well, but since you like to pretend you’ll deny it. I’m talking about world historical upheavals not psychological hangups. China was crucial for the survival of front line states in the struggle against white minority rule in southern Africa. Refute that fact, if you can.
“As to Gandhi, he didn’t like blacks so MLK was a fool to be inspired by that.”
The world doesn’t begin or end with liking or disliking blacks, that you should use such attitude as a criterion to evaluate a political tactic and its inventor shows how childish you can be. MLK’s genius was to use what was available without any silly hangups about how saintly the person who created it was. A mature attitude.
LikeLike
@gro jo
” I’m sure you do as well, but since you like to pretend you’ll deny it. I”—Oh no I don’t deny that, but that has nothing to do with your idea that they “They destroyed the White colonial system that oppressed them and paid with millions dead in China, Vietnam, etc.” because we all know if they had then they would not be living by it now.
“Refute that fact, if you can.”—Refute it? Why? Is there still not white minority rule? Did they simply not replace it with Asian rule? I’m curious on what you believe they did that Africans did not attempt to do?
“The world doesn’t begin or end with liking or disliking blacks, that you should use such attitude as a criterion to evaluate a political tactic and its inventor shows how childish you can be.”—Oh but I didn’t use it to evaluate a political tactic or the inventor for that matter. I simply stated the facts. He did blacks which is true and his tactics served to lead “black people into a burning house” as MLK put it. I know how the separate the acts from the man. Which is also a mature attitude. But congrats on such a witty strawman. 🙂
LikeLike
He did blacks hate blacks*
LikeLike
@gro jo
Still waiting for you to point out the enforced policy that Asians must give up their seats on United to white passengers.
You made the claim this was akin to Rosa Parks, so back it up with some evidence.
Here’s your chance.
“there’s such thing as individuals having the right to live their lives unmolested by governments or corporations.”
LOL! And what does that have to do with the Dao situation on United? What right did he have to refuse flight attendants’ repeated requests for him to leave? What right of his was violated?
We know you and your racist campaign colleague are good at backing up your BS claims with insults, so now try some facts.
LikeLike
“That one really got stuck in my head back in the Alt-Right thread, when my comments kept getting thrown to moderation because I was quoting another commenter who used the word idiot frequently”
Helps prove my point. Abagond freely and quickly deleted comments using that word when commenters he doesn’t like were using it, but now that it’s a word “frequently” used by his own campaign colleagues, it’s conveniently no longer moderated.
What else can you expect from such a biased, vindictive blogger?
LikeLike
“@gro jo
Still waiting for you to point out the enforced policy that Asians must give up their seats on United to white passengers.
You made the claim this was akin to Rosa Parks, so back it up with some evidence.
Here’s your chance.”
Why thank you dear, how sweet of you. I gladly pick up the gauntlet. Here goes. It was the “law” to be ordered to give up one’s seat to a white person just as it is the “law” to overbook and throw out some poor sap because the company overbooked. The racial element makes no difference to me, it’s the same arbitrary principle in action. Some people deserve less consideration than others because of race or financial or other considerations, while being charged the same fee for the service. Note that I’ve not insulted you.
My dear sharinalr, you seem hopelessly confused, I can’t make heads or tails out of this profusion of words that unfortunately fail to cohere into a serious counterargument to my claims. I’ll make a valiant effort to find a scintilla of sense in them.
” “Refute that fact, if you can.”—Refute it? Why? Is there still not white minority rule? Did they simply not replace it with Asian rule? I’m curious on what you believe they did that Africans did not attempt to do? ”
Minority rule in southern Africa? Please point the country where it is? Maybe you mean that whites continue to run the commanding heights of the economy? You would have a point, but how is that the fault of Asians and how are they taking over? The shortcomings of the African liberation movement are the fault of the African leaders. Only fools let others take advantage of them. Only bigger fools refrain from doing so. A rough translation of a Haitian saying. Asians have reached parity with Europeans. Look at the largest economies of the world to convince yourself of that fact. They run their countries to benefit themselves.
“He did blacks which is true and his tactics served to lead “black people into a burning house” as MLK put it.”
How is your house burning, be specific? Blacks are better educated, fed, have more civil rights, etc. now than before. Some people call that progress, don’t you? Many of the cities where blacks have been gunned down by the police are “run” by black politicians, yet blacks make excuses for the incompetence of such leaders by blaming an abstraction called “white privilege”? How about making changes to civil service laws that would exterminate white monopoly on uniform services like police, fire, etc. in these cities?
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Here goes. It was the “law” to be ordered to give up one’s seat to a white person just as it is the “law” to overbook and throw out some poor sap because the company overbooked. ”
That’s not an “enforced policy that Asians must give up their seats on United to white passengers”, which is what I asked you to point out.
So since you failed answering that question, try answering the others I posed:
“And what does that have to do with the Dao situation on United? What right did he have to refuse flight attendants’ repeated requests for him to leave? What right of his was violated?”
I’m not looking for more ignorant opinions. I’m looking for facts.
LikeLike
chicago huh? apparently this happened at o’hare international, the older and more well known of two; the other being midway…
eh, he had a broken nose, etc etc, he was probably punching himself in the face on the way to the hospital, i think it’s in ‘terms of service’ like that crap you don’t read when you install software? since it creates a ‘contract’ between carrier and ‘the carried’ at the time of purchase of a ticket, it’s very unprofessional to have to remove passengers, i have flown A LOT in my day on regular airlines and I don’t recall having seen this happen, usually they let the birkenstock and tie-dye crowd stay in the terminal on ‘standby’… and they have put the crew of other flights in the jumpseats i’ve seen, they should have 3 or 4 extra crew only seats, or maybe it was not like that, i really am not that into it.
LikeLike
@Gro Jo
“My dear sharinalr, you seem hopelessly confused”—No dear you are confused and I wager if you weren’t so consumed in your ridiculousness that you might find yourself less so.
” how is that the fault of Asians and how are they taking over?”—I never said it was the fault of Asians nor did I lay claim of them taking over. You asked to refute “China was crucial for the survival of front line states in the struggle against white minority rule in southern Africa.” I asked a series of questions and this is where you counter with questions instead of answering them.
“How is your house burning, be specific?”—Well ask MLK seeing as it is his quote, but….all those things you mentioned mean little when it positioned blacks into a means to become dependent on a white supremacy system rather than building their own.
“Many of the cities where blacks have been gunned down by the police are “run” by black politicians, yet blacks make excuses for the incompetence of such leaders by blaming an abstraction called “white privilege”?” —That depends on what black person you are talking to. Those black politician typically are called c**s who work for white supremacy or favors white privilege. However if you are basing that on cities like Chicago then you might want to branch out.
“How about making changes to civil service laws that would exterminate white monopoly on uniform services like police, fire, etc. in these cities?”—By all means elaborate on what that would accomplish.
LikeLike
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/united-airlines-passenger-dragged-off-flight-speaks/
i guess if the gendarmes in question were duly appointed police personnel and he was ‘passively resisting arrest’ he could have been really provoking the ire potentially the feds (lucky for him it was supposedly unarmed airport police, but it usually municipal police for traffic, security, etc., plus DHS and some other federal trucks there for whatever reasons at any given american airport…),
LikeLike
^^^to add despite the accomplishment of blacks, they still will get a killing or beat down over Asians.
LikeLike
“That’s not an “enforced policy that Asians must give up their seats on United to white passengers”, which is what I asked you to point out.” Your interjecting his race in the question is a red herring. You asked me how the two situations compare and I told you. As stated above the goons (bus driver and United had the law on their side) while Parks and Dao had human dignity on theirs. I won’t play your silly games any further than this answer.
My dear sharinalr, you are hopelessly confused.
LikeLike
@Gro Jo
“My dear sharinalr, you are hopelessly confused.”—I figured that was all you could muster up. Nice try though. 🙂
LikeLike
@v8driver
You seem, somewhat…… different….somehow…
LikeLiked by 1 person
My dear sharinalr, let me demonstrate your confusion. I wrote, “China was crucial for the survival of front line states in the struggle against white minority rule in southern Africa. Refute that fact, if you can.”
Your response was, ” Refute it? Why? Is there still not white minority rule? Did they simply not replace it with Asian rule? I’m curious on what you believe they did that Africans did not attempt to do? ” When asked to back your claim you came back with the following: “You asked to refute “China was crucial for the survival of front line states in the struggle against white minority rule in southern Africa.” I asked a series of questions and this is where you counter with questions instead of answering them.” Can you refute my claim or not? In case you don’t know what I was referring to this link may help you. “The TAZARA Railway, also called the Uhuru Railway or the Tanzam Railway, is a railroad in East Africa linking the port of Dar es Salaam in Tanzania with the town of Kapiri Mposhi in Zambia’s Central Province. The single-track railway is 1,860 km (1,160 mi) long and is operated by the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA).
The governments of Tanzania, Zambia and China built the railway to eliminate landlocked Zambia’s economic dependence on Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa, both of which were ruled by white-minority governments.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAZARA_Railway
Now back your claims up with facts, otherwise, I’ll start to think you’re playing the coquette with me again! 🙂
LikeLike
It’s interesting how race, police brutality and outsized corporate power all intersect into one hell of a fustercluck.
As for the current discussion about Asians co-opting black movements and tactics for their own ends, once upon a time I mentioned how Asian groups like the Chinese were taken more seriously by America because they had actual bonafide states consisting of people largely of their ethnic makeup backing them, even the ones who are a generation or two removed from their home countries. Black Americans don’t have that sort of global “big brother” they can turn to, so crapping on blacks seems easier and more-or-less consequence-free. Kiwi disagreed with me on that point, but it still stands as far as I’m concerned.
The Chinese, on the other hand, just cost United $600 million in shareholder value. That sort of swift kick in the financial jewels is what really wakes up corporate entities, not tweets about how you’ll never fly that particular airline again even though you wouldn’t have a choice w/r/t some destinations and you’d probably forget about your solemn vow in a few months when you finally need to see grandma in Peoria or that dream vacation comes up and you need a cheap flight pronto.
Black Americans have that power, but we rarely (if ever) exercise it because we’d rather pay lip service to symbolic, superficial hashtag solidarity, when we even bother to work together. But imagine if we did manage to use it and regularly. For one thing, black women would get the royal carpet treatment at Korean-owned beauty shops, if only out of fear of being wiped out of existence by competing black-owned shops.
LikeLiked by 3 people
@gro jo
“Your interjecting his race in the question is a red herring. ”
Clearly you didn’t know that Rosa Parks’ actions were in response to a racial law. All I did was ask you what racial law or policy was enforced upon Dao, and you still can’t answer.
“You asked me how the two situations compare and I told you.”
No that’s not what I asked. If you’re having trouble, reread my questions, none of which you’ve been able to answer with any facts.
“I won’t play your silly games any further than this answer”
I guess that’s your cowardly way of admitting that your emotionally charged claims in defense of this overentitled brat lack any factual basis.
LikeLike
Being the bs artist you are, you can only draw a bs conclusion from our debate on this issue. It’s real ‘overentitled’ of him to expect quiet enjoyment of the good he paid for. Let me repeat: Like Parks, Dao had the right to enjoy his ride free from interference from some goon asserting some bs claim to deprive him of it. Being the corporate robot you are, it’s only right that you should find resistance to such treatment “emotional”.
LikeLike
resw, tell your programmers they suck, it’s evident that they failed to program you to understand analogies, hence your idiotic request for ‘facts’ in an argument where facts about race laws were superfluous.
LikeLike
@gro jo
See your problem is your confusion and need to dabble in ridiculousness began before that.
“When asked to back your claim you came back with the following”–Your asking me to refute your claim. Not my claim. You stated “China was crucial for the survival of front line states in the struggle against white minority rule in southern Africa. Refute that fact, if you can.” in my response to me saying “Is that why they are steeped in white worship?” Your follow up doesn’t refute what I said. In fact it deflects because your beginning response was “blacks do it too etc.”
Sooo…You basically want me to attempt to refute a claim you made (One I never said isn’t true or false) while slyly attempting to deflect from my original point? 🙂
LikeLike
So before this game goes too far… lets go back to my original point….
Asians had no problem being the things and watching every other group being treated as things because it did not affect them. In fact had these officers been white men I doubt that Asians would have made an ounce of a fuss. I’m still waiting for them to make actual moves.
But go on pretending that this:
“What a load of bs. Asians have borne the brunt of the struggle for human rights in the twentieth century. They destroyed the White colonial system that oppressed them and paid with millions dead in China, Vietnam, etc. You might recall that one of MLK’s inspirations was Gandhi, an Asian, I believe. When did it become ‘black’ to make excuses for corporations that violate people’s right to travel unmolested? Get off the stupid oppression Olympics kick.”
In any way changes the reality of what I said.
LikeLike
@Mack Lyons
“…black women would get the royal carpet treatment at Korean-owned beauty shops, if only out of fear of being wiped out of existence by competing black-owned shops.”
Now Koreans have created a vertically integrated industry out of Black beauty supplies where they control the importation, (in some cases manufacture) of beauty supplies and wigs, in addition to wholesale distribution and retail outlets.
When the Koreans pushed their way into Black beauty supplies they sold their products at or near cost to drive Black owned beauty supply shops out of business. Black people allowed those Black owned businesses to wither on the vine in their stampede for the lowest price. We could have used some solidarity then.
Black people gave away their power to Koreans and others and get nothing but contempt in return.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@AFrofem and Mack
Fully agree.
LikeLike
A new citizen video has surfaced which shows Dr. Dao shortly before the forcible removal talking on his cell phone, calmly but firmly explaining why he insists on remaining on the plane and why he needs to get to Louisville that evening. Supposedly he is speaking to a United official, although I haven’t been able to confirm that, but he is obviously pleading his case to the person on the other end of the line rather than just chatting with a friend. He doesn’t begin screaming until the aviation officer lays hands on him.
Dao’s attorney stated today that he suffered a severe concussion, which could certainly explain why he appears semi-conscious or unconscious while being dragged away and his subsequent erratic behavior when he returned to the plane.
Additionally, his nose was broken and he lost two front teeth.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Sharina
I’m curious: What would you consider to be actual moves?
LikeLike
“Helps prove my point. Abagond freely and quickly deleted comments using that word when commenters he doesn’t like were using it”
As I said before, Abagond was not deleting those comments using idiot back then in that thread. They were being thrown to moderation limbo until he let them through.
LikeLike
Grojo said,
“As stated above the goons (bus driver and United had the law on their side) while Parks and Dao had human dignity on theirs.”
As Grojo alluded to, people have a right in principle to live their lives free from interference if those same people aren’t interfering with others. It’s the golden rule applied.
Laws uphold the State and those groups, corporations ect that support and use the State. We are taught that laws protect humanity and some do but laws primarily act as the structural supports within the State and are responsible for far more evil then good.
What Resw and LOM have in common is a belief in law and are willing to defend State violence in the name of the law. LOM thinks that if you just change a few laws and have the Federal government intervene society will be made whole. Resw wants Dao convicted of a “federal offence” and deported from the country because arbitrary lines drawn on the planet determine human value. Both are statists as they both are willing to use State violence to fulfill their idea of justice.
If you want to reduce police violence then do away with their legal privilages and make them accountable for their actions. Citizens should have the right to sue individual police officers for unwarranted violence. Instead civil employees have special privilages that protect them from lawsuits.
In some traditional societies older people were seen as elders and respected. In our society that has been replaced with class and race as the perquisites for respect.
Untied airlines, being a private entity, has the right to evict whoever it wants. That doesn’t make their choices of who to evict moral just because they have the law behind them. Most importantly they have to evict people safely from the plane and if they fail at that then United will be open for a law suit.
LikeLike
Thanks Solitare for more “facts”.
I have a comment in mod or it just resurrected itself in the cloud.
LikeLike
I am so happy that United Airlines stock has recovered completely! It is so wonderful to see that a small multi-billion dollar airline monopoly business can stand up to hundreds of millions of screaming Chinese commies! #FlyUnited #CapitalismForTheWin
So f**king what? There is an entire natural, sorry, normal hair industry owned and operated by black women and non-Asians. You want to give Asians your money so that you can look like some I don’t know what with a bunch of Beyonce/Minaj looking horse-hair go right ahead.You get the service you deserve. Besides, those Korean business are exactly bastions of finance.
People , please focus. Our war is with the Chinaman. Not each other.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@satanforce yes, trying to get my act together, it’s not easy!
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“What would you consider to be actual moves?”—Standing up for something. Speaking out and I don’t mean online stealing hashtags that actually ignore that this man is Vietnamese. I mean boycotting, protesting (like Muslims and Hispanics did) when there rights were violated. A lawsuit does nothing when these people will wait months and do it again.
As I said on kiwi’s deluded thread, this brutality has been on a rise for Asians and yet Asians like kiwi would rather complain about white men dating Asian women or some other irrelevant point. In those other instances Asians happily said and did nothing. Just like so many in here are wagging the finger at big business, but don’t want to address the bigger issues that it will continue because it is easier to do that than to actually put in the work to stop it. Asians won’t and neither will any of the people supposedly backing this man.
LikeLike
their*
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
Thank you for presenting the bigger picture.
For me, being mad or wagging fingers at the lack of moral judgement of the corporation will amount to little. They are protected. simple. If people want to fight then they have to fight beyond that.
Mack said it perfectly when he stated “That sort of swift kick in the financial jewels is what really wakes up corporate entities, not tweets about how you’ll never fly that particular airline again even though you wouldn’t have a choice w/r/t some destinations and you’d probably forget about your solemn vow in a few months when you finally need to see grandma in Peoria or that dream vacation comes up and you need a cheap flight pronto.”
Truth is most people will be flying United again once they get what they want and we can wait for the next victim. If that even makes news.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“It’s real ‘overentitled’ of him to expect quiet enjoyment of the good he paid for”
Naive as usual.
The “good” (actually, service) for which he paid came with terms and conditions, such as the right of the service provider to randomly select passengers to be “bumped” in the event seats were needed for flight crew and there were no volunteers.
Recognizing both the need for this occur in order to facilitate airline/airport operations and the inconvenience it causes the bumped passenger, federal law permits this and requires the airline to compensate in “air transportation” with alternative transportation in 1 hour’s time, or 200% of the ticket value if alternative transportation is provided in 2 hour’s time, and 400% if no alternative transportation is provided.
So no, Dao had no right whatsoever to refuse to be bumped from the flight. Tens of thousands are bumped involuntarily each and every year, and he AND THE RULES APPLY TO EVERY PASSENGER. Not just Asians or non-whites.
So to compare him to Rosa Parks is insulting to her and everyone else fighting against racial oppression.
You should be ashamed of yourself for stooping so low.
LikeLike
has anybody mentioned the cause of this? the crappization of air travel. smaller seats. people crammed in like sardines. the groping and taking shoes off. it tends to create aggravated people. glad my flying days are over.
LikeLike
@”What Resw and LOM have in common is a belief in law and are willing to defend State violence in the name of the law.”
And what michaeljonbarker and LOM have in common is that they’re both racist liars, as I’ve proven over and over again.
Not once have I ever defended “state violence in the name of the law”.
I’ve asked those who have defended this overentitled brat to point out the brutality (after at least two of them lied about a “beating”) and tell us how the black officer should have removed someone kicking and screaming after repeated requests were made for him to leave his seat.
The only response received was that the black officers should have given him the special privilege of refusing to not only follow the flight attendants’ repeated requests but to remain in a seat he agreed to give up in the event it was needed for the flight crew.
Why? Because he was a doctor or old or Asian. Now, if he were young, black and a rapper, you wouldn’t hear a peep from all these Asians and racist whites like scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius.
LikeLike
“@gro jo
“It’s real ‘overentitled’ of him to expect quiet enjoyment of the good he paid for”
Naive as usual.
The “good” (actually, service) for which he paid came with terms and conditions, such as the right of the service provider to randomly select passengers to be “bumped” in the event seats were needed for flight crew and there were no volunteers. Recognizing both the need for this occur in order to facilitate airline/airport operations and the inconvenience it causes the bumped passenger, federal law permits this and requires the airline to compensate in “air transportation” with alternative transportation in 1 hour’s time, or 200% of the ticket value if alternative transportation is provided in 2 hour’s time, and 400% if no alternative transportation is provided.”
Nice job explaining why your masters brutalized Dao. Tell me, would airline/airport operations have been irreparably harmed by letting him keep his seat or just their profit? Let me point out to you that the law that required Parks to give up her seat to whites was justified on the theory that not doing so might lead to violence against blacks and disrupt the social order. I’m not buying the airline/airport operations excuse anymore than I bought the disruption of the social order bit. In case of an emergency I can see a need to bump someone, but as routine practice, hell no? By the way, the racial aspect of Parks as opposed to Dao, is your hangup, not mine.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Nice job explaining why your masters brutalized Dao”
Again, point out where he was “brutalized”. Still waiting on your evidence.
“By the way, the racial aspect of Parks as opposed to Dao, is your hangup, not mine”
I know it’s inconvenient for your weak argument that Parks was in fact subjected to a racial law. But even if it were a law that discriminated against people who were women or old or young, it was still a discriminatory law.
Dao was not subjected to any law or policy that discriminated against him. And that’s precisely why your comparison is faulty at best, and at worst, completely disrespectful to victims of real discrimination.
LikeLike
I’ve had a mild concussion that didn’t require a multi-day hospital stay, just out-patient care at ER.
I was still thinking unclearly enough that instead of waiting for my ride to arrive to pick me up, I left without informing anyone and walked three miles home.
LikeLike
My poor resw, you believe that only “discrimination” deserves condemnation, I don’t. A law can be perfectly nondiscriminatory and still oppressive. Quit pushing at an open door. I didn’t claim Dao was discriminated against but OPPRESSED just as Parks was both discriminated against AND OPPRESSED BY LAW. Given your tenuous understanding of analogies you won’t understand what I’m saying, too bad.
LikeLike
I forgot – I hadn’t been officially discharged yet from ER, although I’d been treated and was back in the waiting room. At least one employee got in trouble for not keeping an eye on me to make sure I didn’t do something like wander off unattended, which is exactly what I did.
LikeLike
Sharina
Thank you for your answer. I can understand your frustrations. I will try to reply in more detail later today.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood
“Evidence of brutalization: Dr. Dao’s bleeding face, missing teeth, and, oh yeah, concussion.”
We’ve gone over this, if you can remember, and my response is the same. Where’s the evidence SHOWING “brutalization”?.
And still waiting on your legal instructions onhow officers should have removed someone who refused to leave. And no, I’m not looking for your opinion that he should have been granted a special privilege that no other passenger had.
And while you’re at it, why don’t you tell us the real reason you’re so concerned with the Dao matter? Your msm already outed their real motivations with their racist code words, and given your racist track record and complete disregard of innocent blacks who were really “brutalized”, I have a reasonable suspicion your motivations are the same.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“you believe that only “discrimination” deserves condemnation, I don’t.”
Please point out where I conveyed that belief.
“I didn’t claim Dao was discriminated against but OPPRESSED just as Parks was both discriminated against AND OPPRESSED BY LAW.”
And no one said you did. I called your comparison “faulty” and “insulting” and “disrespectful”.
But we do have a clear difference of opinion about what being “oppressed” is. I don’t think being oppressed is being randomly selected and then ASKED repeatedly to take $800-$1000, a free hotel night’s stay and
meal vouchers in exchange for the $100-$200 seat you agreed to give up in the event of overbooking.
Funny, I don’t recall Rosa Parks being offered anything except a trip to jail.
LikeLike
We should have a nationwide protest. I think the black officers are being scapegoated. Dr. Dao was stuck in his seat and then his teeth accidentally richocheted out of his mouth when they were escorting him out of the plane.
Blue lives matter!
LikeLike
BTW, wake-up calls are being handed out like candy. There is another story of an Asian-American young lady who was very upset because an AirBnB host rudely canceled on her at the last minute while making reference to her race and Donald Trump in text messages.
Then there is this black police officer, Derrick Stafford, who got into a car chase with felon, Chris Few, fired at him and accidentally killed his 6 year old son. He was sentenced to 40 years in prison for manslaughter and attempted manslaughter while his partner (also black) awaits his fate. Yup, he was even convicted for wounding the criminal, who’s in custody on suspicion of domestic violence and theft, and given 15 years for that crime to run concurrently with the 40.
Apparently, other police officers even testifed AGAINST him. How often do you see that happen? No blue lives matterin’ when a u-know-what just killed a white child. What contrast to Tamir Rice or Aiyana Jones where playing and sleeping black children were murdered by cops who weren’t punished. No all lives matterin’ there. Even Peter Liang, who murdered Akai Gurley for doing NOTHING at all was only sentenced to just 5 years of probation by his Asian judge, Danny Chun, after his manslaughter conviction.
Message clear: black cops should stick to killing black people and while East Asians may seem above blacks on whites’ racial totem pole (because they’re considered less of a threat), they still aren’t considered white.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Funny, I don’t recall Rosa Parks being offered anything except a trip to jail.”
My god, you are brilliant, if Rosa Parks had been paid by the bus company you would have been ok with their practice? Congratulations, you have rediscovered the doctrine behind the whole “separate but Equal” laws. As I recall, blacks were paid to attend schools in states that didn’t discriminate to prevent them from darkening the halls of schools that did.
“I called your comparison “faulty” and “insulting” and “disrespectful”.”
You are entitled to your opinions and I’m entitled to give them the consideration they deserve. None. Now that we understand each other, can we put this debate to bed?
How do you know that United’s policy isn’t racially discriminatory? Adverse impact seems a real possibility here, given the blatant class discrimination of their practice. Blacks and other minorities tend to occupy the lower strata in society. Use your ‘brilliant’ intellect to determine that women and minorities aren’t suffering disproportionately from such airline policy, as your youtube links seem to indicate.
LikeLike
I was alluding, somewhat facetiously, to the Akai Gurley case in which Asian-American protested in huge numbers because Peter Liang “accidentally” pulled the trigger and killed Akai Gurley so he shouldn’t even be charged.
Anyway, I don’t think this case is a particular bad example of police violence. The escalation was unfortunate but other people were bumped and ended up a few hundred dollars richer and kept all their teeth. It seems that Dr. Dao came back into the plane when escorted out the first time, refused to leave, federal law enforcement was called, he still refused to leave.
Once police arrive they’re not going to say, “well if you don’t want to comply that’s OK, we’ll just be on our way”. When have you seen that work? He was removed with force because he refused to leave voluntarily. He wasn’t tased, he wasn’t punched or kicked, he wasn’t shot, he wasn’t killed. Resisting police gives them the license to beat up on you while squealing “stop resisting” but that didn’t happen here. The injuries Dr. Dao suffered, though unfortunate, were apparently incidental and not deliberately inflicted. Perhaps United shouldn’t have called law enforcement in that situation but once they are called they can’t very well give up because the passenger won’t leave voluntarily. That’s the problem they were called to solve!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Resw.
“Not once have I ever defended “state violence in the name of the law”.
That’s been your entire argument.
“And what needs to be clear is that his refusal to leave was a FEDERAL OFFENCE. He not only should be convicted (yet again), he should be banned from United for his behavior.”
“They did exactly what they were supposed to do with an unruly passenger who COMMITS A FEDERAL OFFENCE by refusing to leave.”
“Dragging someone out who refuses to leave, which is a FEDERAL CRIME, is not brutality.”
“COMMITING A FEDERAL OFFENCE by refusing to leave sure didn’t get him there any quicker.”
“It is however, a federal crime to disobey a fight attendant’s repeated requests.”
“The man who was BELLIGERENTLY violating federal law just to get a special privilege.”
Whoever took Mr. Doa’s seat received the “special privilage”.
You sure seem overly concerned that federal laws were broken and are calling for his conviction, a man you have never met, a man who has never interfered with your life personally, yet there you are demanding that his life be interfered with because of his “crime”.
Are you a Fed ?
If convicted agents of the State will show up with guns and take him away. Why would you want to wish that on someone you don’t even know? Reminds me of white people and gentrification. They call the police to come out and clean up the neighborhood. But that wouldn’t be you. wink
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
LOL!!!
LikeLike
“not some race war game”
Well it’s a game everyone is playing. Refusing to play a game in progress is a great way to finish last. I think black people have been pursuing strategy of wishing to end the game, being willing to operate as if it had already ended, while others continue to play.
I don’t think life in this world is meant to be easy. It is a challenging test for all creatures and they have strategies to survive whether camouflage, venom, speed, strength, smarts etc. We have to be willing to engage the tests of life instead of wishing they did not exist.
So if a race game is being played, and evidence indicates that it is, then we should participate. To the extent that losing the game would threaten survival, playing to win is just because self-defense is always just by natural law.
This seems instinctive for most other races and nobody has to verbalize it. However it seems as if black people, collectively, seldom feel existentially threatened. Perhaps there is a good reason for this. Nevertheless this quiet sense of unassailability probably accounts for the astounding tolerance. With everyone being accustomed to this, the simple notion of black people being as self-interested as everyone else is met with shock.
Can you imagine, then, if we start playing and winning!? I don’t think anything would scare the world 5hitless more than black people lifting the boot of Eurasians off our necks globally. They would be consumed with fears of retribution, which means they’ll want to prevent that from happening which means a race-game is being played.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My comments are not being shown @Abagond
LikeLike
@gro jo
“if Rosa Parks had been paid by the bus company you would have been ok with their practice?”
No, because, and I know it’s inconvenient for your argument, she was removed because of her race. Not Dao. And she was not asked repeatedly to leave, she was told to leave and threatened with jail. Not Dao.
Sorry, but those are the facts.
And it’s not only shameful of you to invoke a civil rights leader in this instance, but you should be embarrassed you’re gullible enough to fall for this scam. I used to think you were a bit smarter than that.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
As usual with a white supremacist like you, when you have no factual basis for any of your claims, you automatically invoke your favourite German chancellor.
@michaeljonbarker
None of those quotes say anything about violence. But it shows how desperate you are to make a point.
You may think grabbing and removing someone after repeated requests were made for them to leave is violence, I don’t. Unruly people have to be removed from private establishments every single day, and anyone who runs a private establishment knows this.
Again, for at least the fourth time, where are your “legal instructions on how officers should have removed someone who refused to leave. And no, I’m not looking for your opinion that he should have been granted a special privilege that no other passenger had.”
It’s a simple question, and I don’t understand why you and your racist campaign colleagues can’t answer it.
LikeLike
From a video I saw Dr. Dao stated he would rather go to jail than leave, so I am curious if the cops were simply not called because he made that statement or if they were already there while he was making it.
LikeLike
“resw
@gro jo
“if Rosa Parks had been paid by the bus company you would have been ok with their practice?”
No, because, and I know it’s inconvenient for your argument, she was removed because of her race. Not Dao. And she was not asked repeatedly to leave, she was told to leave and threatened with jail. Not Dao.”
You would have been ok with their practice if they had paid her, asked her repeatedly to leave and called the cops on her after she refused? In other words, you’re ok with oppression as long as a buck is attached to it and the oppressor is ‘nice’. Brilliant! What the hell was the NAACP thinking when it challenged the “Separate but Equal” laws of segregationist states. After all weren’t blacks getting paid to attend schools out of state?
I see that you’re silent on the real possibility of inadvertent discrimination on minorities, as your video links seem to indicate. Why? Is it because your corporate masters might not be pleased with this line of inquiry?
You’re a pretty smart cookie, too bad you’re corrupt. Let me guess, you have a Harvard law degree? If true you are just another embodiment of Sterling Brown’s adage: ” “Harvard has ruined more ni**ers than bad liquor.”
LikeLike
@resw
The glaring flaw in your argument is the notion that legal equals right.
Most agrarian, industrial and information based societies are highly stratified with huge imbalances of power within the population. Those persons with the greatest amount of power in a society generally create laws that advantage them in both systems and individual transactions.
In the rare instances when those persons with less power tilt social, political and economic systems in a more equitable direction, entrenched power groups will work tirelessly to undermine those changes; over the course of generations, if needed. That is why throughout history, we see pushes for rights by slaves/peasants/oppressed groups followed by furious backlashes by advantaged groups. Another example is the common pattern of revolution followed by counterrevolution.
Airlines and other corporate entities in this country have bribed lawmakers, judges and political executives for decades to create and maintain a legal framework that affords corporations the status of persons with near complete impunity. So while United Airlines has legal grounds to breach contracts with their customers and force compliance through violent means*, that does not make their policies or actions right or just.
Legalities can be a fig leaf for unrestrained power.
*Laying hands on a person without their consent does constitute violence, especially when it happens to you.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@ Sharina
I pretty much agree with your over-arching points, that people tend to get momentarily upset while something is big in the news and then soon thereafter lose interest and stop paying attention, much less fighting for change. I could write tons on this subject alone.
That said, sometimes public outrage is enough to bring about change. United Airlines has already announced that they will stop using police in “involuntary bumping situations.” The federal department of transportation is reviewing the matter, and legislators on both sides of the aisle are calling for investigations and planning to introduce bills to change the rules regarding overbooking and involuntary bumping of passengers.
“hashtags that actually ignore that this man is Vietnamese.”
Well, he is ethnic Chinese (Hoa). My gut feeling is that made a big difference in the response from China. Also, as Jefe pointed out on the Open Thread, United runs a significant number of flights back and forth from the Chinese mainland. I think people in China can therefore imagine this happening to them; in fact, I’ve seen some discussion among them of other incidents (not as bad as this one) that they’ve had happen while flying on United. Again, my gut feeling is that if this had happened on Southwest Airlines, which doesn’t serve China, and especially if it had happened to an Asian American who was not of Chinese descent, we wouldn’t be seeing this level of global reaction.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“That said, sometimes public outrage is enough to bring about change. “—Yet this public outrage by other groups never amounted to anything more than empty promises from companies. Part of the reason why so many people dismiss it to easily is all the company and government has to say is “lets talk about it” and people will and do act like the incident never happened.
“Well, he is ethnic Chinese (Hoa).”—From what I have read he fled Vietnam in 1975. It was rumored he was Chinese. With that being said, China used this as a means to scream racism. The incident is likely not racist seeing as this seems to be a “thing” with airlines. If anything it is a human rights issues. I read a nice huffington post article that seems to speak along the lines of because Asians have been discriminated against that they are using this incident as a means to speak out even though this may not be race related at all. I will try to find the article.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/united-airlines-doctor-chinese-passenger-video-removal-memes/
LikeLike
Here is the article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/united-asians-david-dao_us_58efb23fe4b0b9e9848a38d6
LikeLike
Technically United didn’t breach contract because the contract lists a number of scenarios in which passengers can be refused transportation.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx
Just a few:
I understand the frustration of wanting to get to your destination and then being randomly picked to leave a flight. OTOH, everyone should know that it does not pay to defy lawful police directives. They’ll get their way even if it means tasing you and beating you to a pulp. In this case police didn’t appear to use more force than necessary to accomplish their objective of removing Dr. Dao.
Personally, I think it’s unfortunate that police were called and United should have continued to raise the offer until other people bit. Some bad PR is deserved. Yet, Dr. Dao’s right to be in the plane was conditional and not irrevocable. While anyone can enter a store or restaurant, if you’re kicked out and you refuse to leave the owners can call police to get you out. You’d probably be dragged out if you went limp and refused to walk out on your own power with your dignity in tact.
So getting a bit banged up is the price for refusing to cooperate even after you’re warned that you’ll be removed with force if necessary. Most people I’ve seen removed from planes leave voluntarily once police show up. If I’m a 69 year old in his position I’m definitely picking the option where police don’t put their hands on me. Perhaps he thought his was a cause worth fighting for? Anyway, when he sues United might end up paying out more than they would have paid if they’d just offered more incentive for passengers to leave the plane voluntarily so it might work better for Dr. Dao than United
LikeLike
@Origin
“I think black people have been pursuing strategy of wishing to end the game…”
I question the notion that Black people as a group are pursuing any strategy at all. I think the masses of Black people in the Americas, Europe and Africa are in survival mode with little thought given to strategic thought or action. Keeping Black people in survival/reaction mode is by design.
People need physical, emotional and economic space to organize themselves and operate in proactive mode. Our adversaries know this and act accordingly.
LikeLike
@Afrofem
“The glaring flaw in your argument is the notion that legal equals right”
I didn’t make that argument. In fact, I didn’t say whether or not I agreed with United’s policies or the existing laws or not. I simply explained them to people who clearly didn’t know what they were talking about.
“Laying hands on a person without their consent does constitute violence, especially when it happens to you.”
I don’t know what “laying hands” means, but removing someone who is no longer permitted to be on someone else’s private property, after giving them opportunities to leave on their own volition is not violent at all.
And we can test if you really believe what you say. How about we send a rapist to your home to set up camp in your own bed indefinitely and refuse to leave. When that happens, we’ll see if you still talk this nonsense.
LikeLike
@Afrofem
Even if we aren’t actively pursuing a strategy the one that we’re primed to favor involves working on other people to change their racism. In the ideological contest between Garvey’s notion of black self-sufficiency and MLK’s dream of integration and post-racial societies the latter won. That was the main point I was making.
I agree that it is almost impossible to plan long term while putting out fires that threaten immediate survival. The latter naturally take priority since people won’t usually plan for their futures if they’re not reasonably sure they will even be alive.
LikeLike
” I think the masses of Black people in the Americas, Europe and Africa are in survival mode with little thought given to strategic thought or action. Keeping Black people in survival/reaction mode is by design.”
Not really, the people of Zimbabwe forced their government to take back the land from the white minority, hence the hue and cry that Mugabe is tyrant, etc. That policy seems to be bearing positive results because the farms that had been taken from white farmers are starting to produce real wealth for members of the majority. South Africa and Namibia are making noises about following in Zimbabwe’s footsteps.
http://ewn.co.za/2017/04/13/namibia-to-make-white-owned-businesses-sell-25-pct-stakes-to-blacks
LikeLike
@gro jo
“You would have been ok with their practice if they had paid her”
We already went over this. Refer to my response the first time you threw out that lame supposition: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-flight-3411/comment-page-1/#comment-369044
“I see that you’re silent on the real possibility of inadvertent discrimination”
As I remarked upthread, show the evidence. Until then I’ll treat it as the conspiracy theory it is.
Since you keep bringing it up, tell us the races of the other 3 passengers who were selected to leave.
I’ll wait.
LikeLike
@resw
“I didn’t say whether or not I agreed with United’s policies or the existing laws or not.”
Whether you agree with UA’s policies is irrelevant. You made repeated and forceful claims upthread about the supposed legality of their policy and action under US federal law:
You can bob and weave all you want, resw. You are the one who has been defending the indefensible actions of United Airlines on this thread with specious federal law arguments and victim blaming.
LikeLike
“We already went over this. Refer to my response the first time you threw out that lame supposition: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-flight-3411/comment-page-1/#comment-369044”
This crap was your usual artless evasion, nothing more.
““I see that you’re silent on the real possibility of inadvertent discrimination”
As I remarked upthread, show the evidence. Until then I’ll treat it as the conspiracy theory it is.” What conspiracy? Are minorities not the overwhelming purchasers of the cheap seats targeted by your masters? Are they not members of “protected classes”? If the answer is true for both statements, United’s policy has created an “Adverse Impact”, as the definition of the concept indicates. Having been ruined by Harvard, you can now take up bad liquor, the harm has already been done.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
“From what I have read he fled Vietnam in 1975. It was rumored he was Chinese.”
Both are true. He is Hoa, an ethnic Chinese group living in Vietnam. He may have some Vietnamese blood, I don’t know whether he does or not. He might very well be 100% Chinese by blood.
Basically, he is Chinese by ethnicity, Vietnamese by birthplace, American by immigration.
Thank you for the link to the Huff Post article. If, as the author suggests, Asian Americans are able to use the United incident as a launching point to begin more actively speaking out against the racial discrimination that they do encounter, in what ways is that problematic?
LikeLike
As Abagond pointed out in the original post, the Chicago Department of Aviation said right off the bat that the actions of its officers were “not in accordance with our standard operating procedure.” That means there was a standard operating procedure that they should have done instead of what they did do.
We don’t yet know what the standard operating procedure was, but we can see from the department’s statement alone that there was another method that they not only could have used but were instructed to use and trained to use as the standard operating procedure.
(The other two officers involved have now been placed on leave as well.)
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“in what ways is that problematic?”–It is problematic to scream racism where it isn’t. This creates the cycle where people think any and everything is racist. Prime example is how lord LOM screams racism for any and everything and almost everything he screams racism isn’t.
Asians need to speak up and this is a good case to speak up, but it is poor choice to lay the claim of racism here. It ultimately can hurt there cause.
“That means there was a standard operating procedure that they should have done instead of what they did do.”–If we look back on incidents of other situations….they always say that. Yet the end result is the same….
LikeLiked by 2 people
“The Louisville Courier-Journal, meanwhile, has dutifully dug up his police record – a courtesy the US press extends to victims of police violence.”
That is when I knew Dr. Dao was being “Negro-ized” and corporate coverup was in effect.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Sharina
“It is problematic to scream racism where it isn’t. This creates the cycle where people think any and everything is racist.”
That’s a good point. However, I for one am not ready to categorically state there wasn’t any racism at play here. I’m not saying there definitely was, just that I don’t think it can be ruled out based on what’s known so far. Abagond and Gro Jo have both made good observations about the possibility that the algorithims used by United lead to discriminatory results. Afrofem made a good point about how the victim’s criminal record was immediately brooadcast to the world in a way that rarely happens with whites.
“Prime example is how lord LOM screams racism for any and everything and almost everything he screams racism isn’t.”
LOM is a self-deluded troll with a white savior complex.
LikeLike
*broadcast
LikeLike
I would love to know what the SOP is when someone flat-out refuses to comply. Black people get shot quite frequently by white officers on claims that they resisted and police are exonerated, not charged, or face no jail time. Thank god these were black officers so they can be easily thrown under the bus so the department and United can save face.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@Origin
It seems Black police officers are “disposable”.
Something Blacks should consider before joining law enforcement.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@mjb
Their actions, even when less severe than the behavior of white officers, can easily be disavowed by the same entitities that would have stood up for their white colleagues. On one hand, it could be seen as a good thing to have some diversity in the police force especially when the communities being “protected and served” are not predominantly white. However, it seems they’re either driven crazy by the racist environment or they conform to get by.
LikeLike
Even if that the black officers did not follow SOP, people are reading too much into a standard statement by assuming that the SOP was less severe. It’s possible that the officers could be thrown under the bus for mercifully failing to follow SOP that called for tasing non-compliant individuals in that situation. Perhaps SOP called for clearing the whole plane first before dealing with a roudy passenger to prevent just this kind of PR nightmare or accidental injuries to other passengers. In any case, I doubt the SOP says give up and go home to your family; police are paid to be enforcers.
LikeLike
@gro jo
As you know, repeating your theory with a different choice of words doesn’t prove a thing.
“Are minorities not the overwhelming purchasers of the cheap seats targeted by your masters?”
If I had to guess, I’d say whites are the “overwhelming purchasers” of all seat classes. But do show us the evidence for this new claim you just pulled out your rear.
Anyway, nice try suddenly conflating “Asian” with “minorities” only when it became convenient. You remind me of another commenter named kiwi.
But just one thing, since the median household income for Asian Americans is higher than whites (and everyone else in America), what evidence do you have that they’re not overrepresented in First and Business Class and underrepresented in Economy? You know, like how they’re overrepresented at expensive, prestigious Ivy Leagues and underrepresented at cheap, scorned for-profits?
By the way, good job dodging the question about the races of the three other passengers who were selected to leave. I just find it odd you don’t want to answer any of the questions that might help you finally figure out whether or not all your little theories have teeth.
LikeLike
@Afrofem
Whether you agree with UA’s policies is irrelevant.”
Yet you made it relevant by saying “The glaring flaw in your argument is the notion that legal equals right.” Short memory or are you just being sneaky?
“You made repeated and forceful claims upthread about the supposed legality of their policy and action under US federal law.”
I hate to disappoint you, but I didn’t make claims about policy and law, I stated facts, which refuted numerous false claims made by other commenters. So I guess you’ll have to find a better way to involve yourself next time.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“Abagond and Gro Jo have both made good observations about the possibility that the algorithims used by United lead to discriminatory results.”—Could be, but I see this as unlikely. Dr. Dao may have well not been the only Asian on that plane. Then what of the others that just chose to get off?
“Afrofem made a good point about how the victim’s criminal record was immediately brooadcast to the world in a way that rarely happens with whites.”—I see this as racism after the fact and more to make this look justified.
Another thing is….whether we agree with resw or not, where is the video of this man sustaining these injuries? I have not found it and sadly have not looked for it, but with all that recording one should have showed the point when Dr. Dao’s teeth were knocked out or him being punched or kicked in the nose. Something.
I’m glad Dr. Dao broke the model minority stereotype in this,but another nagging thing is Dr. Dao was confident in saying no and even saying he would rather go to jail. This possibly could be because he believed he had “white status”. That he could talk to them in a calm voice and they would listen because he was not black or like those other bad minorities who disobey. Because he was not worried about seeing his patients if he was offering up jail in lieu of giving up that seat.
LikeLike
^^^
“LOM is a self-deluded troll with a white savior complex.”—You are right. I should not use him as a marker, but this behavior is found in not just him.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Origin
“I would love to know what the SOP is when someone flat-out refuses to comply. ”
+1000. I’ve asked that numerous times on this thread to numerous commenters who decried the officers’ actions.
I’m still waiting on their response….and “he should have been permitted to stay” doesn’t answer the question.
LikeLike
re: Solitaire’s
Yes, but the reason has nothing to do with what some of the other commenters conjecture, ie, that the imagined connection between Chinese Americans or Asian Americans with a country like the PRC gives them some kind of clout with dealing with anti-Asian racism in the USA.
It has absolutely nothing to do with that.
It has everything thing to do with a narrative that the CCP promotes domestically inside the PRC that foreigners mistreat Chinese globally because of race in an effort to build race-based nationalism at home and to enhance confidence in the legitimacy of the CCP’s rule. It also fits into the anti-American rhetoric and propaganda that they are pushing all the time. It is funny each time I go to mainland China how much I hear people parrot that narrative. They are the ones who tell me what the USA is like and why the PRC is so much better (it’s not).
But, at the same time, I feel that the CCP is intensely jealous of the USA. They want to be #1.
If there are 600 million hits on Sina Weibo, it is unquestionable that the government is behind actively promoting the propaganda. They certainly have not been trying to block it.
This youtube video explores this idea a bit more.
Chinese Internet Goes Nuts After United Passenger Removal | China Uncensored
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTlKZalZ4-k)
If anything, Chinese-Americans are in a riskier position, not a position of strength, when it comes to USA – China relations. They are more likely to be targeted as traitors by the USA and viewed by the PRC as expendable to USA interests, who don’t fully trust them anyhow (so the PRC could get by with detaining them or having them extradited to the PRC from a 3rd country).
The PRC couldn’t care less about the actual welfare of Chinese Americans,
or any racism they face in the USA. If anything, they will use them as a pawn to wage a culture war against the USA. Another factor could be China’s goal to dislodge UA’s domination of the lucrative China – USA air routes.
Yes, yes and yes.
And further to what I said above, if the UA incident is no longer serving their interests, they will drop the issue on a dime. If they decide, they could turn it around and vilify the UA flight 3411 victim, saying that he is American and doesn’t count as Chinese, or that he is actually Vietnamese and not sympathetic with China. As the video link suggested above, the PRC took this incident and ran with it.
LikeLiked by 2 people
““Are minorities not the overwhelming purchasers of the cheap seats targeted by your masters?”
If I had to guess, I’d say whites are the “overwhelming purchasers” of all seat classes. But do show us the evidence for this new claim you just pulled out your rear.”
Boy oh boy, you got me here. Before conceding defeat, aren’t whites the overwhelming number of employees? How can blacks claim Disparate Impact? I pulled that claim out of the air, not my rear. Are you saying that you know of statistics that show minorities aren’t inadvertently discriminated against? Won’t you share it with us? The three youtube videos you linked to indicated that the first woman was black, the second Hispanic and the third might have been Hispanic as well. Based on your sample, I speculated that minorities may be inadvertently discriminated against. You led me astray if they aren’t.
“Anyway, nice try suddenly conflating “Asian” with “minorities” only when it became convenient. You remind me of another commenter named kiwi.”
Er, if you have evidence that Asians are the majority in the USA, please provide it.
“But just one thing, since the median household income for Asian Americans is higher than whites (and everyone else in America), what evidence do you have that they’re not overrepresented in First and Business Class and underrepresented in Economy? You know, like how they’re overrepresented at expensive, prestigious Ivy Leagues and underrepresented at cheap, scorned for-profits?”
Let me guess, some Asian kid bested you for a coveted clerkship, ever since, you’ve been bitter against all of them.
Genius, how does it feel to have reinvented the rationale for “Separate but Equal”?
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Boy oh boy, you got me here. Before conceding defeat…”
I guess this means you’re about to move goal posts as usual? Not interested.
“Are you saying that you know of…”
No, I’m not. You’re the one pulling random, unsubstantiated claims out of your rear, not me.
“Er, if you have evidence that Asians are the majority in the USA, please provide it.”
As you know, no one made that claim. But great job deflecting from the failure of your weak attempt to lump rich Asians with poor non-Asian minorities for purposes of alleging discrimination against Dao. Unless of course you can, again, show us some evidence Asian Americans, having the highest median household income, are not overrepresented in First Class and underrepresented in Coach.
And while you’re at it, try answering all the other simple questions you’ve been dodging.
LikeLike
My little resw bent over backwards to defend its corporate masters. Let’s embarrass it and all the other corporate shills on this board by reminding them of the nonsense they penned.
resw: “When you purchase your ticket, you agree to abide by the policies of the airline. If you or Dao don’t like them, then you should find another way to travel (we sure could use a lot less overentitled people on our flights anyway).”
satanforce: “An Asian drug-dealing race-baiting pervert at that.”
sharinalr: “sharinalr
@gro jo
Yet Asians were okay being things and watching other be treated as things, so I doubt they are tired just yet. They have done nothing so far but be Facebook drama queens. I’m curious to see when they will actually make moves.”
Nice job blaming the victim, but management has seen the wisdom of going in the other direction. You’re fired.
LikeLike
It’s stupid that law and policy allows passengers that are already seated to be forcibly removed just because other people want their seat. I don’t think it was a racial issue but a consumer rights issue. However, the police enforcers were called to remove Dr. Dao and that’s what they did. In the context of the beaurocracy that created this mess, the police were near the bottom of the pecking order.
So the decision-makers previously declared that they won’t call police in these situations in the future and now they’re saying they will not create such situations anymore. Great! The people who can fix it are fixing it, namely well paid executives not hired muscle. I won’t accept their being scapegoated just because they’re the right color for it. Their actions were not particularly violent given the job they were called to do: ie. remove a passenger who had been expelled from the plane and adamantly refused to leave voluntarily. If anyone can suggest a way to do that with kid gloves, be my guest.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@GroJo
“Nice job blaming the victim, but management has seen the wisdom of going in the other direction. You’re fired.”—Too bad there is no meat on the bone you found. I didn’t blame the victim, but again nice try at getting no where. 🙂
LikeLike
@Jefe
I’m curious on your thoughts. If that is the direction…why use the incident pertaining to airlines brutality, a likely non-racist one, rather than a story such as this…
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-koreatown-assault-elderly-20170202-story.html
LikeLike
Wrong article…..http://thefreethoughtproject.com/innocent-elderly-woman-sues-cops-assaulting-church-parking-lot-morning-prayer/
However both illustrate my point.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
“where is the video of this man sustaining these injuries? I have not found it and sadly have not looked for it, but with all that recording one should have showed the point when Dr. Dao’s teeth were knocked out or him being punched or kicked in the nose. Something.”
What’s been reported is his face got slammed into an armrest. With enough force at the right angle, that could definitely have knocked out a couple teeth and broken his nose. What I don’t know is whether his face hitting the armrest happened accidentally as part of the scuffle or if the officer did it on purpose to subdue him.
The footage I’ve seen doesn’t have clear shots of what happens in the scuffle in the tight space in the seats.
I do wish all three officers involved had been white. We’ve already seen in previous cases that the police will not protect black officers the way they do white officers.
LikeLike
@Solitaire,
“I do wish all three officers involved had been white.”—I try not to look at it that mainly because there needs to be accountability regardless of race, however what you say is true. They won’t protect these black officers in the way they will whites, but also this isn’t the fault of the officers. They were called in to do a job that other officers from other airlines do. Nothing they did was intentional in the slightest outside of their job to remove. For example, if a mother asks her child to get out of the road and he refuses, then she pulls him out and he falls and hurts himself in the process. Do we then send her to jail or tell the kid he can sue?
The only one who will be taking responsibility will be those officers. United may change a policy here or there, but then what? They will have to make adjustments later because how to you deal with belligerent passengers?
LikeLike
@gro jo
After stooping as low as anyone can possibly go by invoking Rosa Parks, you moved the goal post to “nondiscriminatory” oppression, and when that didn’t work out, you moved it back again to racial discrimination, e.g.:
“How do you know that United’s policy isn’t racially discriminatory? Adverse impact seems a real possibility here, given the blatant class discrimination of their practice”
You then made up a bogus claim about minorities being “overwhelming purchasers” of Coach tickets in a weak attempt to make Asians out to be more likely to be in Coach. But given Asian Americans have the highest median household income (not to mention David Dao is a wealthy physician), and you can’t prove they’re not underrepresented in Coach and overrepresented in First Class (or at least have the greatest means of getting in First Class), you moved the goal posts to the race of the employees in an act of desperation.
Since none of that worked, here you are throwing out yet another claim that cannot be substantiated since I never defended United’s policies.
So the only one who should be embarrassed and ashamed is the one who fell for this scam, defended the childish behavior of a rich, overentitled brat who demanded a special privilege, and tried to pass that off as equivalent to blacks’ fight against racial injustice. .
LikeLike
…”the childish behavior of a rich, overentitled brat who demanded a special privilege….”
Typical rightwing authoritarian-speak against a citizen/customer who expected to get a service he paid for in advance and instead got manhandled for specious corporate reasons.
The primary reason being the airline just felt like it. The airline also knew they could get away with mistreating paying customers because of “federal law” they lobbied Congress for in the past.
Currently, corporate contracts are little more than a one sided dictation of terms and conditions. Laws regarding contracts have been altered and undermined by the airline industry and others for decades. Corporate arrogance and impunity are the results.
LikeLike
United Airlines is still mistreating their customers, this time a White couple:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article144973654.html
LikeLike
@Afrofem
I guess when you’ve no facts to support your claims, the next best thing for your type is objective labeling. At least that’s one thing you do well.
“against a citizen/customer who expected to get a service he paid for”
In fact he did get the service for which he paid plus 400%+ of the value of it plus a hotel stay, etc. Neither United nor any other transportation service provider would ever guarantee him he’d get to Louisville on time. You’d be surprised but it’s quite often that people don’t make it to their destinations on time.
“…and instead got manhandled for specious corporate reasons”
False. He was removed because he refused to leave after repeated requests by flight attendants. But nice try.
And still waiting on your ” legal instructions for officers to properly handle someone who belligerently refuses to leave after repeatedly requests”.
“Currently, corporate contracts are little more than a one sided dictation of terms and conditions.”
Who forced Dao to accept United’s terms and conditions, again?
And how many houseguests of yours (if you’ve ever had any, God help ’em) were permitted to disobey all your rules because they amounted to nothing but a “one sided dictation of terms and conditions”?
LikeLike
“resw
You then made up a bogus claim about minorities being “overwhelming purchasers” of Coach tickets in a weak attempt to make Asians out to be more likely to be in Coach.”
My, such imagination, ruined by bad liquor and Harvard law school. Of course, gro jo did nothing of the sort, he consistently argued that the shabby treatment of this paying customer was oppressive regardless of the supposed nondiscriminatory basis of it. Gro jo did try to humor you and other race fanatics on this forum by pointing out that “Asians” did contribute to the struggle for human rights and the possibility of Adverse Impact on minorities, considered “protected classes”, since they are poorer than whites and therefore would make up a larger pool of non-first class passengers, relative to their numbers in the general population, say 22% of non-first class seats for blacks who comprise 11% of the general population. Gro jo asked you to provide the statistics showing that such unintended discrimination wasn’t occurring, you deflected as usual. Afrofem did a nice job demolishing the rest of your sophistries so I’ll stop here.
LikeLike
“Who forced Dao to accept United’s terms and conditions, again?”
Who forced Rosa Parks to accept the bus company’s terms and conditions, again?
SIGH, it learns nothing.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Of course, gro jo did nothing of the sort”
I quoted you directly. Not sure why you’d deny your own comments that are still visible.
“Gro jo did try to humor you”
You remind me of abagond. When your BS claims get exposed, it’s suddenly all a joke. No wonder you guys make such a great campaign team.
“gro jo asked you to provide the statistics showing that such unintended discrimination wasn’t occurring”
Never happened.
You said, “How do you know that United’s policy isn’t racially discriminatory ? Adverse impact seems a real possibility here,” but never backed up your claim, after I asked you to prove Asian Americans, which have higher median household incomes than whites, aren’t overrepresented in First Class and underrepresented in Coach.
Still waiting for your response
Now here you are once again with the discrimination claim, even after you had already DENIED it was discrimination, but was “nondiscriminatory” oppression: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-flight-3411/comment-page-1/#comment-369007
So which one is it? You can’t even keep up with what you’re arguing at this point. What a mess.
“Afrofem did a nice job demolishing the rest of your sophistries so I’ll stop here”
Good one! You really are full of “humor”.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Who forced Rosa Parks to accept the bus company’s terms and conditions, again?”
Here you go again stooping into the gutter to shamelessly use a civil rights leader to desperately try to prove a non-point.
I guess I have to educate you yet again, since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Rosa Parks was subjected to a CITY LAW that required racially segregation on buses.
Tell us what city, state or federal law to which Dao was subjected that requires racially segregated airplanes? I’ll wait.
LikeLike
resw, you. are. funny.
LikeLike
I know you’re joking, but humor you doesn’t mean I was joking, just that I’d play along with your nonsense long enough to show what bs it is.
LikeLike
@gro jo
“Not really, the people of Zimbabwe forced their government to take back the land from the white minority, hence the hue and cry that Mugabe is tyrant, etc.”
Point taken.
LikeLike
@gro jo
So you got exposed contradicting yourself, doing a complete 360 moving goal posts, and failing to support your many bogus claims, what else is new?
And I know, gro jo, you only want to compare Rosa Parks to Dr. David Dao on your own terms. You ignore the relevant facts because they’re completely incomparable. You just want to compare your overly emotional perception of the two, as if that’s relevant.
And trust, you’re not nearly as disappointed with your weak excuses than I.
LikeLike
@scribh
Really, I thought I was “British”? At least that’s what you told me.
And I left “than I” just for you because I KNEW you’d prove how much you love to ” derail an argument about racism”, in which abagond notes, “If their English is bad, jump on that. ” https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/derailing-for-dummies/
Thanks again for proving to us the racist you are, according to abagond’s writings, that is.
LikeLike
Abagond, why is my post still in moderation 24 hours after I made it?
LikeLike
The fact is, Dao sign a contract when he bought the ticket. He needs to be a man and honour the tenets of that contract. Comparing Dao to Parks is just pathetic.
LikeLike
@ Satanforce
Comment deleted for moderated language.
LikeLike
OK, I quit. Bye everybody.
LikeLike
“Comparing Dao to Parks is just pathetic.” Failure to honor (honour) a man standing up to an oppressive system in emulation of Rosa Parks and others, labeling him “overentitled”, “An Asian drug-dealing race-baiting pervert ” and questioning the human rights bona fides of his ethnicity is absurd. Being repudiated by your bosses for your ‘efforts’, is humiliating and doubly pathetic.
LikeLike
“@gro jo
So you got exposed contradicting yourself, doing a complete 360 moving goal posts, and failing to support your many bogus claims, what else is new?”
My little resw, did you fail high school math (maths for you)? You do realize that turning 360 degrees means that you are exactly where you started from, right?
LikeLike
You need practice telling the difference between 180 and 360. I hope this helps: https://grammarpartyblog.com/2012/12/03/180-360-where-are-we-again/
LikeLike
LOM
You harping on grammar is also trolling behavior. Do they teach racism in American whitewashed class? No worries this mind already knows.
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/types-of-grammar-trolls/
LikeLike
i think it’s a little different dropping a bus token in and the fine print on an e-ticket, maybe not
LikeLike
@gro jo
“You do realize that turning 360 degrees means that you are exactly where you started from, right?”
Yes, and that’s exactly what I meant. You seem to be having trouble remembering things today. Well it was explained for you in a previous comment, using your own words:
Poor gro jo is striking out left and right.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
“For example, if a mother asks her child to get out of the road and he refuses, then she pulls him out and he falls and hurts himself in the process.”
Dr. Dao is a grown man, not a child. He wasn’t standing in the middle of a road at imminent risk of being killed. He wasn’t removed from the plane for his own safety. He wasn’t threatening the safety of other passengers, the crew, or the aviation officers. He wasn’t a security risk. He was just delaying the plane’s departure.
One of the things they (both the managers and the officers) could have done differently is to spend longer talking with him until he agreed to leave on his own. But he was making the plane late! They decided to use bodily force. This backfired on them because the method they used ended up causing a much longer delay. They had to deplane all the passengers to clean up Dao’s blood, and they had to calm down distraught passengers who didn’t want to get back on that plane after what they had witnessed. They ended up leaving two hours late.
“This possibly could be because he believed he had ‘white status’. That he could talk to them in a calm voice and they would listen because he was not black or like those other bad minorities who disobey.”
Yes, but this is entirely conjecture. I understand that you’re basing it on things you’ve seen and experienced, but we don’t know if this particular person had these thoughts going through his head. In a similar vein, I’ve heard Asian Americans saying that the black aviation officer must have thought since Dao was a small Asian man that it would be easy to pick him up and carry him out like a child. They are basing this on a very real stereotype of Asian men as weak, defenseless, and passive. But just because that stereotype exists, they have no way of knowing if the officer in question actually believes that stereotype or that it informed his actions.
LikeLike
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
“Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that that was an Easter egg just for me.”
Too bad for you I could care less about your beliefs. But as you know, you have a lengthy track record of derailing discussion about racist laws and enforcement, so you’ve become very predictable.
Just like I knew you’d respond with a creepy post expressing how much you worship Sanders after I posted a link to a very good article in which Ta-Nehesi Coates calls out Sanders’ BS excuses for not supporting reparations for African Americans. I just had no idea you’d actually post a picture of a hippie with a halo, who I assume is supposed to be white Jesus with the name Bernie on it.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“Dr. Dao is a grown man, not a child. “–Well I gather that much, but the point was to point out how easy it is to get hurt in scuffles. If a person gets hurt in a scuffle then who is to blame? We can change the scenerio of the mother and child to simply a mother asking her child to do something, but he fact still remains that if a scuffle ensues and an individual gets hurt then that is incidental.
“One of the things they (both the managers and the officers) could have done differently is to spend longer talking with him until he agreed to leave on his own. “—From something I have read he did agree to leave at one point and changed his mind because it would take longer than he expected. How true that is I don’t know, but people shouldn’t have to waste their time because they are waiting on offers to talk a person down. If I was on the flight and had a dying parent waiting on me to get back before they died I would be pissed.
“I understand that you’re basing it on things you’ve seen and experienced, but we don’t know if this particular person had these thoughts going through his head etc.”—Which is why I said it possibly could be. I never said it was a fact of his nature and no one has offered up anything indicating that it is not.
“But just because that stereotype exists, they have no way of knowing if the officer in question actually believes that stereotype or that it informed his actions.”—If you clicked on the links of resw above you will see officers, some black, doing the same thing. This is not exclusive to Dr. Dao or united airlines for Asians Americans to even come to that conclusion. One of his videos showed them picking up and dragging out a heavy set, possibly Hispanic, individual. This incident ain’t Asians shinning racism moment.
LikeLike
Correction Officers* not offers on comment in moderation.
LikeLike
“Yes, and that’s exactly what I meant.”
So, you admit that I’ve been consistent in arguing that UA’s rule on this subject was oppressive and Dao, like Parks was right to defy it? You’ll get no argument from me on this point. I thought you were trying to, absurdly, argue that I hold positions that are 180 degrees at variance with each other? If that’s what you’re truly arguing, why the following: “Poor gro jo is striking out left and right.”?
LikeLike
@gro jo
“So, you admit that I’ve been consistent in arguing that UA’s rule on this subject was oppressive and Dao”
No, I guess you didn’t re-read your own comments. I can’t help you there.
You’re getting a little rusty.
@scribh aka lord of mirkwood aka xpraetorius
“If Ta-Nehisi Coates is your hero, you should at least go to the trouble of spelling his name correctly.”
Well he’s not, but I did say you were predictable.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
To elaborate further on this “Dr. Dao is a grown man, not a child.” We can change the scenario to not including a child and let’s say police officer and the individual being arrested. If you are fighting with an officer and accidentally stub your toe breaking it then that is incidental to your actions. That is not the fault of the officers. Now if the officers are arresting you illegally then there fault is arresting you illegally.
The point being I don’t see him being hurt in the scuffle as the fault of the officers.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
“If you are fighting with an officer and accidentally stub your toe breaking it then that is incidental to your actions. That is not the fault of the officers… The point being I don’t see him being hurt in the scuffle as the fault of the officers.”
Based on what evidence? Do we know for a fact how Dao’s face encountered the armrest?
LikeLike
@ ASG-M
“My, how complicated some people are making this.”
Yes, we know, race doesn’t exist in your lily-white, upper-crust, east-coast patrician, colorblind world. I see you’ve been practicing your tone of smug superiority.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
Just saw you have a comment stuck in mod. If you want, we can wait to pick up on this conversation until after it comes through.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“Based on what evidence? Do we know for a fact how Dao’s face encountered the armrest?”—Do we kbow for a fact ir is racial? Yet people argue that it was. Everything is hypothetical, but the truth is that of all those videos on that plane none of them captured a beating, which would be top priority as these people were horrified enough to video period. Regardless hurting oneself in a scuffle ain’t the officers fault…and no I am not say I g it is Dr. Dao’s either as accidents happen.
LikeLike
Know* it* saying*
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“In a similar vein, I’ve heard Asian Americans saying that the black aviation officer must have thought since Dao was a small Asian man that it would be easy to pick him up and carry him out like a child. They are basing this on a very real stereotype of Asian men as weak, defenseless, and passive.”
Anyone who has been around Asian men know for a fact that they are anything but “weak, defenseless and passive”. They most certainly are not “childlike”. Asian men are men like all other men.
Silly stereotypes abound!
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Sharina
“If I was on the flight and had a dying parent waiting on me to get back before they died I would be pissed.”
That’s understandable. But if you were on the flight trying to get home to your dying parent, and you were the one randomly selected to be removed from the flight and bumped to a flight 21 hours later, would you have gotten up and left without protest?
“From something I have read he did agree to leave at one point and changed his mind because it would take longer than he expected.”
I haven’t heard that, but it could be true. If it is true, it’s probably because he thought at first he could still get back in time to see his patients Monday morning, but then he found out it was a longer delay and he wouldn’t be able to. That wasn’t just going to inconvenience him but also his patients. He had a responsibility to his patients just like in your theoretical scenario you would have a responsibility to your parent.
Having to reschedule an entire day’s worth of appointments on no notice is a holy terror. If he is like many specialists, most of those patients would have made their appointments a month or more in advance, and his schedule would be booked solid for the next couple months, making it a logistical nightmare to work them in earlier.
Because this happened on a Sunday, it’s likely that some of his patients would have shown up for their appointments early Monday morning before office staff could contact them. He had a responsibility to be there to fulfill his commitments to his patients.
“This is not exclusive to Dr. Dao or united airlines for Asians Americans to even come to that conclusion…. This incident ain’t Asians shinning racism moment.”
I never said that it was. I was giving an example of what some people think and saying they’re making a conjecture that they can’t know for certain.
I’ve said all along, even back in the Open Thread, that I’m not sure whether race was a factor. I’m not saying it definitely was, but I’m not ready to rule it out, either.
LikeLike
Ha! I just discovered why Sharina’s comment went to mod!!
What was I saying upthread about idiot and quoting someone else’s use of a moderated word? Guess I still haven’t learned to keep an eye out for that 100% of the time, duh!
Sharina, comment to you in mod, LOL!!
LikeLike
@ Afrofem
I dunno about “anyone.” My spouse has had to explain to white male friends, students, and even professional colleagues why it isn’t appropriate to pat him on the head even if he is 7″ – 10″ shorter than them. But then, white men are usually behind everyone else on the learning curve.
LikeLike
Abagond, why is my post still in moderation 24 hours after I made it?
Probably because of your filthy language and scenarios, cirka jerk indeed!
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Solitaire
“you were the one randomly selected to be removed from the flight and bumped to a flight 21 hours later, would you have gotten up and left without protest?”—I would have and I am not saying what the corporation did was not wrong, but talking to him until he “changed” his mind would equally be a waste. That is not a proper solution when you have people who have places to be. This creates the idea that people are entitled to waste others time until it is convenient to them.
“He had a responsibility to be there to fulfill his commitments to his patients.”—You get no argument from me here. However, even with a responsibility if he volunteered to begin with then most people look at it as a done deal. Considering how corporations work, he signed his right to be there away when he agreed.
“I never said that it was.”–Didn’t say you did as I was referring to the Asian Americans who use that logic and believe this is a racial shinning moment. Frankly I am still trying to figure out why Asians views this a some cream of the crop moment when the Asian women who were actually beaten and called racial slurs is a shoulder shrug type attitude.
LikeLike
@LOM
Common sense? You have no real argument for it to be considered ad hominems. You are just throwing out your fantasy bs and hoping you will get praise for it.
LikeLike
re: Sharina’s
I assume that you are referring to the idea of why China, particularly the CCP of the PRC, would jump on the airlines brutality incident and milk it for all its worth, yet ignore other cases of alleged brutality against Asian Americans in the USA.
My thoughts:
1. The CCP cares sh!t about the lives or prospects of Asian Americans.
Contrary to what other commenters may believe, Asian Americans derive no clout or other derived perceived power from being associated (at least in the minds of Americans in US society) with a foreign sovereign power. The CCP couldn’t care less about what Dr. David Dao actually has to experience. That is not why the CCP seized the propaganda opportunity connected with this incident.
2. The victim in the cases you highlighted was not ethnic Chinese.
The CCP already cares sh!t about the lives or prospects of Asian Americans. And if the victim is not ethnic Chinese, it serves their purposes even less. China is not exactly on good terms with their neighbors, and although we have seen most of the bashing in China directed towards Japanese, quite a fair amount is meted at Koreans, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Indians, etc.
Someone of Korean descent or other non-Chinese ethnic origin can never be a “perfect victim” in the eyes of the CCP. They cannot even milk it for any propaganda purposes. Hence, they do not talk about the Japanese American Internment experience either.
If, on a later date, they decide that the victim in the airlines brutality incident should be vilified, they could easily relabel Dr. Dao as Vietnamese, or as an American, and remove his connection to China.
Sandy Phan, a Vietnamese-born ethnic Chinese US citizen from Houston, TX married to a white man was easily transformed into a vilification target by the CCP:
US woman Sandy Phan-Gillis charged with spying in China
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37235311
3. The target of the CCP’s action is the US government and US corporations.
The PRC wants to show its citizens that
the US has no moral authority to lecture China about human rights
Chinese citizens are mistreated overseas because of race. (The USA is no different.)
United Airlines needs to be punished for their behaviour (perhaps in the expectation that that might open up more airline routes from China to the US on CHINESE owned airlines if they could beat up on UA).
Dr. David Dao earned “near perfect victim” status as he claimed that he was selected to be mistreated and violently brutalized as he was “Chinese”. That soundbite is GOLD to the CCP-controlled media. The fact that Dr. Dao can now leverage the PRC media reaction is just something that happened by chance. They are now benefiting from each other.
I really doubt that Dr. Dao has any direct connection to China. He could have been 3rd or 4th generation Vietnamese of Chinese descent and we don’t even know what fraction of Chinese ancestry he might have.
Meanwhile, Ms. Sandy Phan-Gillis above was possibly chosen as she was ethnic Chinese, and the timing of her detention was timed to serve as a lesson to Obama (and to the US government in general) during the G20 summit in Hangzhou. Whereas the CCP may seize on ethnic Chinese as perfect victims, they also might select them to be perfect vilification targets. They are vilified for being “traitors” to their “race” (regardless of what nationality they actually hold).
There is no security that Asian Americans may derive from sovereign Asian nations to counter white racism in the USA.
The hypocrisy of the PRC regarding this case has even spilled over into Hong Kong. Pro-beijing lawmakers in HK took the opportunity to blast the USA for its inhumane treatment of airline passengers and the concern that HK residents, who make up a large portion of the nonstop flights to the USA, would be concerned that the same thing could happen to them. This “concern” was in response to US congressmen’s concerns about the status of the democratic development in HK. What’s more, these same HK legislator’s gave extensive rationale why local HK policemen who exercised violent force towards innocent law-abiding pedestrians should be excused as they were just doing their job.
They literally make me want to puke.
Pro-Beijing lawmakers express concern over United passenger fiasco to US congressmen
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/04/13/pro-beijing-lawmakers-express-concern-united-passenger-fiasco-us-congressmen/
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Herneith
“…because of your filthy language and scenarios…”
Filthy, mean spirited and hilarious! I laughed until tears ran down my face.
I learned in college not to get into a cussing contest with an Afro-Caribbean. They will beat you most of the time and have you laughing at the insults they hurl at you. Now that is skill.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@satanforce
Thanks for linking to that Vice article. It was good to see happy Black women for a change…with men who appreciate them.
LikeLike
That was a good article.
Afrofem, your comment prompted me to read it, thanks.
And thanks especially to Satanforce for posting the link.
LikeLike
^ I liked the Vice article except for the last paragraph. It seems that only monoracially identified people would objectify the children of an interracial marriage. No one likes to be the focus of the tired and trite “Best of both worlds” mantra.
Better: Identify various blasian men and women who can serve as good role models for their children and the greater community as well.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
“I would have”
Then you’re a more noble person than me. If I thought my parent might die before the next available flight, I would be on my knees begging them not to kick me off the plane.
“and I am not saying what the corporation did was not wrong, but talking to him until he “changed” his mind would equally be a waste. That is not a proper solution when you have people who have places to be. This creates the idea that people are entitled to waste others time until it is convenient to them.”
He also had places to be. The company decided they were entitled to waste his time because they put their employees’ convenience over that of their paying customers.
Part of my opinion here is based on my general feeling that LEOs often move to forceful solutions too quickly. I don’t think they spend enough time talking and listening and trying to defuse situations without the use of force.
“However, even with a responsibility if he volunteered to begin with then most people look at it as a done deal.”
He never volunteered. No one on that flight did, which is why the company then resorted to random selection.
“Frankly I am still trying to figure out why Asians views this a some cream of the crop moment when the Asian women who were actually beaten and called racial slurs is a shoulder shrug type attitude.”
Maybe it was less a shoulder shrug and more that the incidents with the Asian women didn’t get big play in the news so not anywhere as many people know about them. Also as Jefe has pointed out, China ran with this incident (for their own reasons) which gave it lots of international attention that the other incidents didn’t get.
LikeLike
@ Jefe
Very good observation about the last paragraph.
LikeLike
@ ASG-M
“If Bernie were here, he would say that this was a corporate power issue.”
If Bernie didn’t have his head up his colorblind @ss and had actually addressed racial issues honestly and competently, he would have been able to pull minority voters from HRC and handily won the Democratic nomination.
LikeLike
@ Jefe
… except I just now remembered that the author of the article identified himself as half Asian and half white/Jewish, with a photo of himself looking obviously hapa.
Huh. Maybe he grew up with the “best of both worlds” rhetoric and internalized it??
LikeLike
@Solitaire
Indeed, he says,
then he concludes with
He even admits about growing up with intense insecurity concerning his own biracial heritage, and then wants the same thing for his children.
That is certainly strange. I have never met a “hapa” in real life or on line who embraced that rhetoric, and I was even a moderator on a Eurasian discussion forum for a while and interacted with hundreds, maybe thousands. Many are indifferent to it, but many are annoyed with it. I don’t know any that actually believe it.
The last paragraph kinda ruined the credibility of the author for me.
LikeLike
@ Jefe
Maybe his editor “suggested” that ending.
LikeLike
^ could be.
But a Hapa with any sense would say “NO”.
LikeLike
Solitaire
I would have simply because I would have looked for another solution. I will find the article but his alternate was a 2 hr wait.
“He also had places to be.”—-No, he had someplace to be that next morning not that very day like other people may have. This one guys need to be pacified does not and should not trump the needs of a whole.plane of others who could have missed other flights.
In this case they did not move to force too soon. This guy was asked several times to leave. No one has time to spend all day asking this because a person is being stubborn. They heard him, but they also had a job to do.
“He never volunteered”—Wrong when selected 3 other people voluntarily walked off the plane. As I stated it was said he was willing to do the same until he realized how long it would take and changed his mind.
“didn’t get big play in the news”—We can stop blaming the news for not caring. The idea that I did a search to look this up is enough to realize that others can do it to if they wanted to know or cared. This stuff is only hidden when people want it to remain as such. As an issue that is affecting the Asian community a shoulder shrug should be the last thing they are doing. As to Dr. Dao he is being used and in a much more sinister way than simply the face of Chinese discrimination in America. He is being used to ignore the very real discrimination of other Asians.
LikeLike
The passenger should have complied with what the police told him and this woukdntbhave happened. He brought this on himself. What a jackass.
LikeLike
He should have complied with what the staff and police requested. He brought this on himself. He can’t make his own rules. What a jerk.
LikeLike
Uhh. I am Yogibreeze and am a proud Black man. I have been championing so-called Black issues a and trying to help move Black people forward all my life. I am 59. Just because I say this man was out of line and should have complied with the law and rules does not make me a rascist and certainly not a White Supremacist. You need to educate yourself more and also learn to think more critically and with a more open mind Muster
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Yogibreeze
An scribh… is a racist troll who used to be named lord of mirkwood and xpraetorius. Pay him no mind.
LikeLike
Oh wow. Thanks for the heads up.
LikeLike
Kiwi’s comment makes it clear he’s pretty much in the same boat as all bigots since he continuously characterises all Blacks by his ignorant opinion of a single commenter’s view towards Asians.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This happened in December. She was dragged off the plane down the isle just like Dr. Dao.
This woman was arguing with a Trump supporter and got removed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38723929
Political discrimination? /sarc Anyway, she got up and left after cops showed up.
The situation below apparently happened after the Dr. Dao incident because the passenger involved even referenced it. You think this lady got to stay on the flight?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4429474/Woman-rants-plane-asked-off.html
They cleared the whole plane so there’s no video of her removal. Yet, you can be sure that her behind was dragged off with force if she refused to comply.
When you’re removed from a flight, refuse to leave, and police show up they’re not going to leave you sitting when they’ve been called to force your compliance. Police put their hands on Dr. Dao because he refused to leave the plane after a computer algorithm selected him for ejection not because he was Asian. Akai Gurley’s relatives wanted Peter Liang to be held accountable because he recklessly killed a man not because he was Asian. There is a difference between not wanting to be discriminated against and wanting to receive what you perceive as “the white treatment” even when it would be unjust. If the airline had acceded to Dr. Dao’s demands and hand-picked a different passenger for removal, that would have been unfair and would have opened an even bigger can of worms on that flight. What happens when that one says, “Hell no, that man was already picked”? A policy change is welcomed but, let’s face it, the flight crew wasn’t authorized to change airline policy on the fly.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Origin
Spot on!!! From what I read so far United has no plans on firing anyone.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-united-passenger-dragged-earnings-0419-biz-20170418-story.html
LikeLike
@sharina
Thanks for the link. I agree with the CEO’s quote in the beginning:
It’s not a good look for a passenger to be injured while being ejected when there was no underlying wrongdoing that provoked his removal. Yet there likely wasn’t any serious violation of policy by the flight crew or police that day. The policies established the rules that allowed overbooking and bumping and likely put a cap on how much money could be offered. So the CEO would be really hypocritical to try to put the blame on anyone but the system people like him, not flight attendants and police, can change.
LikeLike
The comments section makes clear that Blacks and Whites are pretty much in the same boat in regards to anti-Asian racism. Just scroll down to see more comments doubling down on the anti-Asian rhetoric.
You may be right but who has the power to screw you systemically and socially? I’m not referring to individual cases either. For whatever it’s worth, I refer to people from the Asian continent by their country of origin. The population and cultures are too diverse to call them ‘Asians’. The same with any other ‘groups’.
LikeLiked by 1 person
^
Each and every person has the power to screw anyone else systemically and socially within their sphere of influence .
LikeLike
Nope, white supremacy. I’m not referring to individual cases, one doesn’t have to be white to espouse a white supremacist outlook.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@jefe
What does “screw” mean, and how can blacks as a group (not an individual) “screw” “Asians” (not an individual) as a group? Not hypothetically, but given present facts.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@jefe
“Each and every person has the power to screw anyone else systemically and socially within their sphere of influence .”
A sphere of influence is to a global system of dominance what a krill is to a whale…and just about as effective at “screwing” either socially or systemically as the tiny krill.
LikeLike
sharinalr and AfroFem
I always enjoy reading your arguments. Afro Arabs could with people like you in fighting racism from Caucasian Arabs..
LikeLiked by 1 person
What happened to King, Matari and Robert? They disappeared, I missed them so much
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ rabab
“What happened to King, Matari and Robert? They disappeared, I missed them so much”
I miss them, too.
LikeLike
@Afrofem,
One rogue or infected krill can kill a whole whale.
Do not underestimate the power of an individual small potato, even less so if they work in concerted effort.
I watch daily how much the awe-inspiring CCP which rules over 1.4 billion fears with great trepidation the power that a single individual can bring. They work incessantly to inoculate and neutralize those individuals.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@rabab
Thank you. Matari left because of a commenter similar to LOM aka An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach. He got tired of ignorant white racism running wild and free. King, Matari and Robert are surely missed.
LikeLike
Jefe’s statement reminds me of “tank man” that stopped a brigade of tanks in Tiananmen Square.
https://goo.gl/images/09WPzK
White supremacy currently has global dominance but it’s sphere of influence in China is much more limited then elsewhere on the planet. Oppression in China is caused by that Nation State against some of its citizens and not by white supremacy. China is in competion against Western Imperialism and they are quietly laying the ground work globally towards their own expansion and economic dominance.
What is universal is that individuales that just want to be free. Most go through life in survival mode in order to get by. But for some to be free burns greatly and they lift others up around them and can bring change. They move the human race forward.
LikeLike
@”Oppression in China is caused by that Nation State against some of its citizens and not by white supremacy.”
It’s also caused by white supremacy. Europeans need not be in power in China for that to occur. The darkest people in China are still treated the worst and those with features as close to the stereotypical European ideal are treated the best.
LikeLike
Nah. That issue is deeper than just color.
LikeLike
I guess that’s why so many Chinese live by the ideal, “白富美 Bái fùměi, translated as “white, rich and beautiful.” It must also be why the palest Chinese are considered the most beautiful, why whitening moisturizers are more widely available in China than non-whitening moisturizers, or why so many Chinese women go to the beach looking like this:
LikeLike
@resw
I didn’t say the effects of white supremacy didn’t exist in China but rather it is more limited then in places where there is Western dominance.
China’s oppression extends into the general population not just smaller groups. I suspect if those smaller groups had lighter skin that wouldn’t stop the State from targeting them.
If your picture displays the worst effects of white supremacy in China then consider the Chinese lucky.
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
“I didn’t say the effects of white supremacy didn’t exist in China”
I didn’t say you did. I responded to your comment that “Oppression in China is caused by that Nation State against some of its citizens and NOT BY white supremacy”
LikeLike
I set that statement up with this:
“It’s sphere of influence in China is much more limited then elsewhere on the planet.”
.
So yes there is colorism but that is not cause of China’s mass incarceration. Contrast with America’s race based incarceration.
LikeLike
While the Uyghurs are a diverse group and it is possible to find photos of some who look very Asian, in general the Uyghurs tend to have more European physical characteristics than do the Han Chinese.
Yet the Uyghurs aren’t oppressing the Han Chinese, quite the opposite.
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
““It’s sphere of influence in China is much more limited then elsewhere on the planet.””
And that’s your opinion, with which I disagree.
“So yes there is colorism but that is not cause of China’s mass incarceration. ”
Wonderful job moving the goal post to equate “oppression,” which we were actually talking about, to “mass incarceration,” which you just brought up.
LikeLike
@resw
Resw said,
“Wonderful job moving the goal post to equate “oppression,” which we were actually talking about, to “mass incarceration,” which you just brought up.”
I am talking about oppression manifested through the State. You brought up skin creams and Chinses women frolicking at the beach.
People who choose to use bleach creams in China do so voluntarily. That is a symptom of cultural white supremacy, not oppression in itself. Internalized racism can be mentally oppressing but that is different then oppression created by the State through the use of force.
China benifts from the West through trade but it’s political system is independent and I dont consider it a Western puppet.
Maybe we have differing views of what constitutes oppression. Typically it’s through the State though sectarian groups can be oppressive as well.
“oppression” in British English. oppression noun [ U ] (RULE) › a situation in which people are governed in an unfair and cruel way and prevented from having opportunities and freedom.
LikeLike
@michaeljonbarker
“I am talking about oppression manifested through the State.”
You specifically said oppression in China was not caused by white supremacy, I said white supremacy was “also” a cause and then you moved the goal post from the more general “oppression” to the more specific “mass incarceration”. Now you’re covering your rear.
“You brought up skin creams and Chinses [sic] women frolicking at the beach.”
Yes, in addition to other points, all in response to Yogibreeze’s comment, not yours.
Clearly you’re having trouble keeping up with things, which explains why you don’t know what’s going on, again.
LikeLike
@resw
Give me specific examples of how white supremacy causes oppression within China. Maybe I will learn something.
LikeLike
@ Yogibreeze
Comment deleted for moderated language.
LikeLike
And here’s delta https://nextshark.com/justin-cho-delta-allegedly-kicks-family-off-a-flight-because-they-are-asian/
Seems the increase in incidents with othwr airlines has increased following the Dao one.
LikeLike
Another one on United Airlines:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_595d5d41e4b02e9bdb0a154e/amp
“I started remembering all those incidents with United on the news. The violence. Teeth getting knocked out,” she told Hawaii News Now. “I’m Asian. I’m scared and I felt uncomfortable. I didn’t want those things to happen to me.”
LikeLike
@Solitaire
She still should complain. However, the media needs to stop pushing this hysteria that it is because she is Asian. I am still not convinced Mr. Dao’s situation was because he was Asia so much as it was because companies are pos and he was getting loud.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
Ok, but this woman is the one who told the media she felt singled out and was scared because she was Asian, not the other way around. That was how she felt on the plane, how she interpreted her lived experience.
LikeLike
To nobody’s surprise, the officers were fired:
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airplane-mode/two-officers-fired-after-doctor-dragged-united-airlines-flight-n811546
LikeLike
Ever wonder what happened to Dr. David Dao?
‘I stayed in my house for months’: doctor David Dao, who was dragged screaming from United Airlines flight, finally breaks silence
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3005460/i-stayed-my-house-months-chinese-american-doctor
LikeLike