The electoral college (1789- ), so called since 1808, is currently made up of the 538 electors who choose the US president and vice president. For over 200 years they have been meeting on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, every four years. They next meet on December 19th 2016 – next Monday. They will likely elect Donald Trump president even though he lost the popular vote by 2.08 percentage points.
The electoral college has voted for the loser of the popular vote three times before:
- 1876: Rutherford B. Hayes, who lost by 3.00%,
- 1888: Benjamin Harrison, who lost by 0.83%,
- 2000: George W. Bush, who lost by 0.51%.
Trump, Bush, Harrison and Hayes were all Republicans.
Opinions about the electoral college:
Jon Stewart:
“it’s as sound as it was when that shipload of mentally defective orangutans washed ashore and designed it.”
Donald Trump in 2012:
“The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.”
Alexander Hamilton, Founding Father and washed-ashore orangutan (from Nevis):
“If the manner of it be not perfect, it is at least excellent.”
Each state gets as many electors as it has people in Congress, anywhere between 3 to 55. It is roughly in proportion to the number of people who live in each state.
The keyword is “roughly”. Since each state gets at least 3 electors, no matter how few people live in it, smaller states have more voting power. In California, for example, there are 677,000 people per elector while in Wyoming there are only 188,000. Since most small states have few big cities, immigrants, or people of colour, that gives Republicans a built-in advantage.
Puerto Rico has millions of people but gets no electors – because it is not a state. DC is not a state either, but through a special deal (called the Twenty-third Amendment) it gets 3 electors.
The constitution leaves it up to each state how to choose electors and how they should vote. In most cases, the party that won the popular vote in a state, no matter how narrowly, gets to choose all of that state’s electors – winner takes all, distorting the popular vote. In Nebraska and Maine the winning party in each Congressional district gets to choose an elector.
Electors meet at their state capitals. Each one writes down who they want for president and vice president. Their ballots are sent to the US Senate where they are counted.
In practice, nearly all electors vote for their party’s candidate. In 29 states they are required to do so by law. Those who do not are called faithless electors or, as they prefer to call themselves, Hamilton electors.
As Hamilton lays out in Federalist Paper #68, the electoral college is meant as a fail-safe to stop conspiracies, demagogues and especially:
“foreign powers … raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union”
and also to stop:
“any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”
Hamilton electors see Donald Trump as just the sort of man the electoral college was meant to stop.
– Abagond, 2016.
Update (December 21st 2016): As it turned out, there were seven Hamilton electors, two against Trump (voting for Ron Paul and John Kasich) and five against Hillary Clinton (Bernie Sanders, Spotted Eagle and three for Colin Powell). Not enough Republican electors flipped, so Donald Trump will become the next president.
Update (September 9th 2020): On June 6th, in Chiafalo v Washington, the Supreme Court upheld the right of states to remove or punish Hamilton electors. Peter Chiafalo was an elector in Washington state who voted for Colin Powell instead of Hillary Clinton. NPR, KUOW.
See also:
- US elections
- president
- Donald Trump
- US geography
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@agabond,
Why did you say this?
“Trump, Bush, Harrison and Hayes were all Republicans. That is not a complete accident.”
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@ Anne
Because the electoral college has a small-state bias. They are generally states where Republicans do well since most of them have few big cities, immigrants, or people of colour,
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@Anne
abagond wants us to believe the Republican party of 1876 and 1888 is the same as today for purposes of him showing that it benefits from the electoral college.
But if you talk about the Republican Party of Lincoln, abolition, etc., then he would, like usual, maintain the double standard that the party is not the same today.
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“Because the electoral college has a small-state bias.”
Very disingenuous, as usual, since you were asked about why you said they “were all Republican”.
And of course Hayes won 3 out of 4 of the biggest states in 1876. Harrison won 4 out of 4 of the biggest states in 1888.
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One argument in favor of the electoral collage is that it provides representation for smaller states. I belive that was part of the original intent. When the electoral college was created information tracked at the speed of horse back and boat. That might have been a consideration as well.
I’m going to play the Devils advocate here.
If you change the map to which counties went for Trump you get a sea of red with a few blue spots. From that view it looks like a landslide. But it brings up another question about democracy and that is why the concentrated areas where lots of votes come from have the ladt say about what happens in the rest of the country.
If the electoral college was done away with completely that wouldn’t necessarily mean that a person like Trump couldn’t get elected. What would change would be where canidates would campain. Trump may have lost the popular vote by 2% but in a senerio where elections were based on popular vote Trump could have made up the 2% difference along the West coat alone. Because the West coast generally votes blue many potential voters don’t even bother to vote.
Asumption: If the elelctions were based on the popular vote, voter turnout would be higher because then every vote would matter.
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@michaeljonbaker Watch out. People don’t like reality. Another issue is that the Electoral College keep states where a political party has been able to use its control over the instruments of government to create as one-party society from having influence beyond its actual numbers.
This is not a theoretical issue. The South in its entirety was one-party for nearly a century until the 1968 election irrevocably broke the solid South. But the South did not gain influence beyond the actual weight of it population. The South in the segregation era no doubt suppressed the vote of poor whites along with preventing blacks from voting entirely. Low rates of participation could have kept the South from having a greater influence on the national popular vote.
Today, the issue is not so much vote suppression as toleration or even enabling of illegal voting in various forms.
If we had the direct election of the president, along with that we would have to have uniform voter eligibility rules nationwide and very strong guarantees against fraud in all forms.
Until someone gets two-thirds of both houses of congress and 38 states to ratify, we are going to continue to have an Electoral College.
The Electoral College represents a dynamic a candidate has to master. Al Gore lost in 2000 because he couldn’t carry his home state of Tennessee and the sitting president could not carry his own home state of Arkansas for his chosen successor. Hillary Clinton lost because she lost three Northern state no Democrat had lost six elections, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. She lost two more that both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama carried twice, Florida and Ohio. You lose because you are lousy candidate. What a novel thought. A lousy candidate.
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Reblogged this on League of Bloggers For a Better World and commented:
“Each state gets as many electors as it has people in Congress, anywhere between 3 to 55. It is roughly in proportion to the number of people who live in each state.
The keyword is “roughly”. Since each state gets at least 3 electors, no matter how few people live in it, smaller states have more voting power. In California, for example, there are 677,000 people per elector while in Wyoming there are 188,000. Since most small states have few big cities, immigrants, or people of colour, that gives Republicans a built-in advantage.
Puerto Rico has millions of people but gets no electors – because it is not a state. DC is not a state either, but through a special deal (called the Twenty-third Amendment) it gets 3 electors.
The constitution leaves it up to each state how to choose electors and how they should vote. In most cases, the party that won the popular vote in a state, no matter how narrowly, gets to choose all of that state’s electors – winner takes all. In Nebraska and Maine the winning party in each Congressional district gets to choose an elector.
Electors meet at their state capitals. Each one writes down who they want for president and vice president. Their ballots are sent to the Senate where they are counted.
In practice, nearly all electors vote for their party’s candidate. In 29 states they are required to do so by law. Those who do not are called faithless electors or, as they prefer to call themselves, Hamilton electors.
As Hamilton lays out in Federalist Paper #68, the electoral college is meant as a fail-safe to stop conspiracies, demagogues and especially:
“foreign powers … raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union”
and also to stop:
“any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”
Hamilton electors see Donald Trump as just the sort of man the electoral college was meant to stop.
– Abagond, 2016.”
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Love Jon Stewart.😂😂😂
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@anonymike
“Today, the issue is not so much vote suppression as toleration or even enabling of illegal voting in various forms”
Please elaborate on illegal voting “in various forms”. Exactly what forms?
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@agabond,
Got it. They way you wrote it sounds like you were saying the system was put in place by Republicans. (To me at least) But it actually precedes them.
I am in favor of getting rid of the electoral college. When the country was more agrarian and the average person lived outside of the city, it was necessary to avoid unbalanced representation that favored wealthy people in the city who still had ties to England. Today we have a larger, industrialized population that lives in the city which is not being represented by that same system because it now favors wealthy people who can afford to buy land in less urban areas.
I am not worried about whether or not Trump could win if we got rid of the EC because if he did at least it would be a simple case of counting votes. No room for doubt. And I don’t care if the way candidates have to campaign changes. I also don’t see an issue with having to set up a uniform set of rules for voting and ID requirements. It’s a stupid system that has outgrown its relevance. We need to get rid of it.
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“Today, the issue is not so much vote suppression as toleration or even enabling of illegal voting in various forms”
If you are referring to “illegal immigrants” voting that’s a Trump myth.
In California you need a photo I.D. to vote. That might keep people too impoverished from voting but ohoto ID seems like a reasonable requirement.
In thinking back on the primaries here in California it seemed Sanders was the canidate who had the most excitement and who had the most bumper stickers, yard signs, huge rallies ect I thought he would take the state. He then lost by 30 which seemed out of wack with the reality of what was happening around me.
If there was voter fraud it didn’t come from voter suppression or illegal voting but from rigging the voting machines themselves.
I have no proof that’s what happened so it’s speculation.
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“If there was voter fraud it didn’t come from voter suppression”
Completely wrong as usual.
Large-scale “voter suppression” has been covered by real journalists like Greg Palast, and there’s ample evidence of it.
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@resw
“Real” journalist and film critic Greg Palast piece on Republican voter fraud.
Greg Palast | Investigative Reporter
http://www.gregpalast.com/rolling-stone-expose-gops-secret-plan-steal-vote/
My comment related to California which is not a state controlled by the Republicans who have purged voter rolls in other states.
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The electoral college, coupled with the practice (not legally required but as a practical matter necessary) of states to cast all of their electoral votes as a block, ensures that our two-party system will remain in place and no viable third party will ever achieve a major voice on the national stage. This is why the two parties have become so increasingly indistinguishable from one another on all issues except a few proxy social issues like gay marriage. This is why “evangelical” has come to be the sole voice of a so-called Christian vote. If you are doctrinaire in you politics — Libertarian conservative, Green or Socialist liberal — you essentially have no voice on the national stage.
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“My comment related to California which is not a state controlled by the Republicans who have purged voter rolls in other states.”
Democrats in California also suppress votes, as Greg Palast has covered thoroughly.
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well they have initiative, referendum, and reform in CA, as in California.
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https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/key-dates.html
apparently 13 DEC 16 was the point of no return, it’s all just formalities now for trump
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But the electoral college doesn’t meet until Dec. 19, and electors could vote any way they want, especially those who are uneasy about these Russian hacking allegations involving Trump.
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@Afrofem,
He means all those illegal aliens risking everything to vote for President. All those black criminals voting and carrying on. You know we blacks just love to vote several times per election. I mean after standing in line for an hour, I drive to another precinct and vote as my late grandmother. Don’t you?
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Unfortunately Trump is still the new president.
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@Michele Alexander
I also thought anonymike was leaning in that direction. I asked that person to elaborate because I wanted him (or her) to make his/her position clear.
That commenter’s lack of response spoke volumes. It is far easier to make unfounded comments than it is to defend them.
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@Mary Burrell
True. In a sane world the electoral college would toss him overboard However, we don’t live in a sane world.
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@v8driver
I read that it is 19 Dec 2016, or Monday.
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To be fair though, the Republican party of 1888 was completely different from the GOP of today (the pre-Southern Strategy GOP) But it is odd that it seems like the electoral college has mostly benefited one party.
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Today is the day!
“Saturday Night Live” did a skit on it:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAhF8tPqafQ)
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The youtube channel you posted is blocked where I am, but I found it somewhere else. Thank you for the heads up.
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“Today is the day!”
You sound excited. Inside knowledge about your girl/boss’ plan to steal the election?
““Saturday Night Live” did a skit on it”
Did the check in the skit look like the one you received for a job well done?
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Putin to Obama. “Show Some Proof ” Russia interfered with US election or STFU!!!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-16/putin-lashes-out-obama-show-some-proof-or-shut
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Abagond and his boss’s coalition’s attempt to get faithless Republican electors has failed miserably. It looks like more Democrats defected than Republicans!
Let’s hope abagond’s family is there to give him the mental and emotional help and support he needs to get through this tough, painful time.
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Hari Kondabolu:
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the point is the will of the American people
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Obama! Get your treacherous ass out of the White House!
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M) Third times a charm. It’s also the third time this election year I played this song as a celebration on social media. #1 Election morning. #2 after the Jill Stein/Green Party recount. #3 After the electors certified the state votes. He did say you we would get tired of winning. Promise kept so far! Get on board, like Ray Lewis and Jim Brown, and give the man a chance to win for all of us!
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@Abagond: I have just discovered Hari Kondabolu he’s a funny comedian and very sharp when talking about social injustice issues. He has a great podcast With Kamu Bell, Politically Reactive. It kind of reminds me of you and Brotha Wolf’s blog. You should check it out i enjoy it. Also About Race podcast and Tapestry are podcast I like to listen to in addition to reading your blog to learn about race politics and intersectionality.
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Hari Kondobolu keeps it 💯
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Bwwwwwahahahahaaaaa…
Hillary lost more ‘faithless electors’ than Trump!!!
Talk about adding insult to injury! This is too funny! Too funny!
(https://youtu.be/MmrZ3GIDg_o)
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Update: As it turned out, there were seven Hamilton electors, two against Trump (voting for Ron Paul and John Kasich) and five against Hillary Clinton (Bernie Sanders, Spotted Eagle and three for Colin Powell). Not enough Republican electors flipped, so Donald Trump will become the next president.
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too funny. too funny.
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Poor abagond. All that shilling for naught.
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“Update: As it turned out, there were seven Hamilton electors, two against Trump (voting for Ron Paul and John Kasich) and five against Hillary Clinton …”
Even the electors had the sense to keep that evil incarnate female away from the big house! Perhaps a critical mass of Amerikans aren’t as hopelessly stupid as I thought…
No wait. I have to take that back. There’s nothing more stupid than the belief of WHITE supremacy/superiority based upon skin color! Sadly that’s a mental malady still affecting people of all colors and hues.
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@nomad
I was LMAO when I saw Hillary Clinton had more “faithless electors” than Trump especially after all the hypocritical agitation to undermine the will of the people (remember she chided Trump for honestly saying he would not immediately accept the result if he lost). I was also dying when some of Jill Stein’s recounts ended with a larger margin of victory for Trump.
Go away Hillary. Black people have become lapdogs for the left instead of a people seeking to advance themselves to a position of respect and power instead of victimhood and pity. Yes, we got a raw deal in many respects but we will not be delivered except by our own strength and determination. This is the fact and we should make peace with it and work for our own future which ONLY we have a vested interest in.
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“This is the fact and we should make peace with it and work for our own future which ONLY we have a vested interest in.”
Well I don’t know. Barack Obama, in theory, was our ultimate success. A black person in the highest office in the world. And what did that net us? WE have an identity problem. And a leadership problem. The white system has always subverted us through our so called black leaders. And they have typically used mulattoes to do it. And Barack was a special kind of mulatto. Raised by white people. Trained by the CIA. Probably literally created by them through some weird MKultra in vitro fertilization process. We don’t know who his father is.
the greatest psychological operation in US history: the origin and apotheosis of Barack Hussein Obama. In Search of Black Assassins sheds an enormous amount of light on the subject.
“Out of everyone in the world, SS Dr. Josef Mengele and the underground SS Knights of the Black Sun had been the most secretive, treacherous and satanic forces … that would have conceived such a diabolical plan. Dr. Mengele disappeared during the time of conception and birth of Obama II. During that time, Dr. Mengele was secretly deeply involved in clandestine artificial insemination in human beings. When Obama II and Stanley Ann returned to Hawaii in 1962, Dr. Mengele was exposed by Argentine historian Jorge Camarasa[,] artificially creating the master race of blond haired, blue eyed Aryans in twins by the dozens in Candido Godoi, Paraguay.”
Essentially they engineered a white man in black skin. And because he had black skin and spoke eloquently and was able to mimic us we followed him and became his ardent supporters. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he was the enemy of black and brown people everywhere on earth. It was the greatest psychological operation in US history. The enemy within can do you more harm than any overtly racist white man ever could. That is the lesson of the past eight years.
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Mulattoes at the helm of empire.
https://wordpress.com/post/aislec.wordpress.com/9449
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or rather
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@nomad
“Well I don’t know. Barack Obama, in theory, was our ultimate success. A black person in the highest office in the world. And what did that net us?”
I never saw Obama as the greatest success and I knew people who thought so would be disappointed. At a time, years ago, when I was using biblical allegory I said that he was one who would fool America as the angel asked who would fool King Ahab.
An example of success in my mind is the Jews who are able to work to ensure their survival despite being hated and subjected to genocide. I think the Japanese are successful for being able to recover from their disastrous imperialism and the A-bomb to become a top 5 economy.
@nomad
“WE have an identity problem. And a leadership problem.”
Yes. The genesis of the identity problem is the nature of the black people’s particular cultural tragedy. Because it was multi-generational and protracted it didn’t leave behind a strong memory of what came before it. I know all of that, but I have started to consciously shift the focus to myself, us. Why? Because when it comes to self-preservation, you are responsible.
After you’ve evaluated the threats you face the next concern has to be how you’ll survive in spite of them. The zebra can’t blame the lion if it is ambushed, that’s just the nature of life on the Savannah. The herd has to remain vigilant or someone will get eaten. Simple. Of course, interaction between humans has a different dimension but some elements of animal nature remain. Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to figure out how to survive and thrive in our environment.
Am I wrong?
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No. But we don’t find zebras eating other zebras. Black zebras need to learn the lesson of Obama.
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nomad, i’m impressed with some of these links, for sure
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thanks, man. I get around.
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@Origin
“Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to figure out how to survive and thrive in our environment.”
Good point.
In order to move past sheer survival to actually thriving a people have to be clear about who the predators are and the patterns they employ to attack members of the group. They also have to be willing to put themselves first. Black people still have problems with clarity and priorities.
Origin, what are your thoughts on moving past those basic impediments?
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@Afrofem
“They also have to be willing to put themselves first. Black people still have problems with clarity and priorities.
Origin, what are your thoughts on moving past those basic impediments?”
This is a good point and I have struggled with it. I was writing a post in another thread that touched on that but it got so long I felt I was rambling and I didn’t bother to post it. I’d copied it out of the brower so I’ll post a snippet of what I was about to say then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Black people are the only group that seem to [primarily] believe that we need to get other people to like us to ensure our survival. This is insane! You need to figure out how to survive even if everyone hates you. Look at Israel!
[…]
I’m not about to ignore factors unique to our cultural tragedy. A major factor is that Japanese remained Japanese and Jews remained Jews. Our particular situation resulted in an almost complete erasure of cultural heritage.
[…]
The lack of a cultural identity that predates the tragedy leaves nothing to aspire to, nothing to seek to rebuild and a consequent directionlessness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Culture is the machine that weaves the individual into the collective force. It’s the difference between pieces of meat and a living organism. Even if the cells haven’t yet expired, once rent apart the individual body parts are doomed to decay eventually. Death of the organism seals the fate of every single cell (Henrietta Lacks notwithstanding).
A cultural rebirth has to precede the re-emergence of African people as a force in the world. I know we have physical capability, I know we have thinkers, I know we have artists and musicians, I know some of us have money but we are like ants just after someone disturbed their nest. We have no avenue through which to focus our energy so that the result benefits us collectively.
This relates to the unwillingless to put ourselves first and the lack of clarity. We have no larger entity that IS us and contains us. The concept of putting ourselves first collectively cannot exist when there *is no collective* except as a statistical, demographic category that was defined by its lack of access and its exclusion. That identity was the product of harsh circumstances. Such an identity is viewed by those on which it is imposed with a degree of revulsion so it didn’t provide a permanent vehicle through which to express a positive constructive energy.
This is why “integration” was so appealing. That era was productive and we have those people to thank for many of the liberties we enjoy as a matter of law. However integration homed in on destroying the identity of exclusion and it did so while not quite destroying the exclusion. Exclusion went underground and became more sophisticated and surreptitious. So as we survey the situation half-a-century later, we still see many causes for concern.
So how does one go about sparking a cultural revolution that can take us from where we are to where we want to be in the future? Well, the preamble was longer than I thought so I have to sleep on that and come back later. I don’t have a pre-baked answer to that question but you got me thinking and I hope I helped you to think too.
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@Origin
“…integration homed in on destroying the identity of exclusion and it did so while not quite destroying the exclusion.”
Well said. The concept of integration was also a propaganda ploy. Integration promised full equality and rights once Black people were part of the American body politic. The price of admission was shedding the business, educational, sports and cultural infrastructure built under the period of overt exclusion (Jim Crow). Between the period of post Civil War Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement, Black communities in the South built businesses, opened schools and colleges (some with White philantrophy), started professional baseball leagues and movie, music and theater companies. That is a part of the Nadir of race relations hidden in the pages of history.
Dr. Chinweizu Ibekwe, (often referred to as simply, Chinweizu) a Nigerian born scholar, essayist and poet had this view of US integration efforts:
Your idea of a Black cultural revolution preceding true Black independence is intriguing. To be effective, a cultural revolution would have to start from the bottom up and accompany a building of independent Black institutions—-led and populated by Black people.
There are two primary obstacles I see. One is such movements require dedicated leadership. The Black community is constantly scanned by The Powers That Be for emergent leaders who are either bought off or neutralized with prison, death or disgrace.
Two is the overwhelming urge of Capitalism to commodify all aspects of Black culture for its own profit. One macabre aspect of that commodification is the appropriation of the term, Black Lives Matter. I have lost count of the number of commercial references I have seen and heard about “this or that matters” over the past year. Everything seems to matter except, Black Lives. Unsurprising and infuriating!
Navigating such obstacles would be difficult, but not impossible. Defining a unifying culture and building from there would be a good first step.
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@Afrofem
“Two is the overwhelming urge of Capitalism to commodify all aspects of Black culture for its own profit. ”
It’s part of the violence committed. Recall that the bikini was “inspired” by the traditional dress of the people of Bikini Atoll in the Pacific. They lost their island because of atomic bomb testing.
Anyway, on the topic of culture, one of the things you notice with many traditional cultures is that they sacralize things related their continued existence as a people. When the spiritual part of the human mind is grounded in that which will ensure continuation of the culture that creates a powerful motivation.
It’s why Christianity, with it’s madate to convert, was a perfect match for imperialism. It’s why the African became defenseless of all ties to the ancestors were cut by colonization. It’s why the Jewish state was able to survive and re-establish it’s own state. It’s why the Islamic world is waging global Jihad. That culture is the Europeans without any of the subterfuge or hypocrisy regarding its ultimate goals. Africa has been preyed on by both.
The part of the human that appreciates and wants to feel the sacred is largely owned by others in the case of people of African descent. We are unable to feel the sacred in a way that is connected to our desire to survive and thrive in the world, as a group (individuals may find it in a religion or child-rearing or nationalism etc). Again, I can a recognize this but it’s harder to imagine solutions.
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@Origin
“The part of the human that appreciates and wants to feel the sacred is largely owned by others in the case of people of African descent. We are unable to feel the sacred in a way that is connected to our desire to survive and thrive in the world, as a group”
That is an interesting look at what motivates people to pull together and build/maintain social structures.
I do see one thing differently. I think many African descent individuals have no problem connecting with the sacred in regard to sheer survival. Our oral history and language is replete with entreaties and gratitude to the Divine for “carrying us thus far”…”making a way out of no way”…or the deep devotion of “a personal
relationship with Jesus”, etc.
Where we fall down is in not nurturing a sacred group consciousness that affirms our ability to thrive. Not just the ability to thrive, but being a group deserving of abundance and success——however we define those qualities. Some of that is due to the barrage of negative messaging Black people have to contend with on an hourly basis. Some of it due to the intergenerational wounds we still carry from the Maafa; the result of descending from people who were methodically stripped of their history and identity. We are ungrounded.
One thing that might help is the further development and re-working of Black American Holidays. Commemorative observances such as the Texas holiday Juneteenth,
connecting with the ancestors in a Maafa sunrise ceremony and renaming/reworking a moribund Kwanzaa into a vibrant Black Family Week might provide a base of sacred occasions to ground Black people in African/Black American history and culture in group oriented events.
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All well and good but unless you understand how you were so badly and cynically deceived, you’re vulnerable to being deceived again.
‘Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.’
Waiting for Obama two point oh.
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@nomad
“Waiting for Obama two point oh.”
The Legacy Tour? Memoirs?
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no. another cia psy op.
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@Afrofem
“Where we fall down is in not nurturing a sacred group consciousness that affirms our ability to thrive. Not just the ability to thrive, but being a group deserving of abundance and success——however we define those qualities. Some of that is due to the barrage of negative messaging Black people have to contend with on an hourly basis. Some of it due to the intergenerational wounds we still carry from the Maafa; the result of descending from people who were methodically stripped of their history and identity. We are ungrounded.”
Thanks. This is exactly what I meant. The imposed religions have been co-opted to serve as a survival tool but to the extent that they are connected to the orchestrators of the Maafa the leash can only be stretched so far.
@Afrofem
“One thing that might help is the further development and re-working of Black American Holidays.”
Yes. And music must be involved. It’s one of our strongest remaining ancestral connections regardless of where we ultimately ended up. It has been commercialized and subverted to a significant degree but I think we still have the ability to use it as something sacred.
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I just randomly searched for a video with African drumming and within 30 seconds I was already moving. Then I see videos of Africans moving somewhat like my untrained self…lol. I feel a natural identification with it.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8bUyC55cc)
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*sigh*
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http://images.dailykos.com/images/342030/large/PE_Trump-nukes_Tweet.jpg?1482427588
So Trump decided to announce a change in the nuclear policy of the world’s most potent arsenal via a Tweet.
A major policy announcement; and it’s handled the way you’d deal with a movie review…seriously ?
One day complaining about a restaurant review, the next day, threating to light up seven billion people…..seriously ?
The word oxymoron is taking on a new life for me.
He says
“We need to greatly strengthen our nuclear arsenal until the rest of the world comes to it’s senses”
That is right there is what an oxymoron is.
A nuke is about quality not the quantity – Donald.
But nonetheless his answer to out of control nukes is more nukes. Guess that means the answer to people’s weight problem is to eat more.
Obviously he wants to show the world that he’s a real badass not realising that the USA already has enough nukes to destroy the entire world. Perhaps he wants to be able to destroy a few more planets as well ?
The thing is Trump is still in campaign mode and even on his first day he’ll be like an eight-year-old fascinated with all his new toys Santa Claus brought him for Christmas.
“Let me push this! Let me push that!”
He’s obsessed with nukes.
Is it the thought of releasing so much power and destruction? In interviews, going back decades, he’s always had a fear of nukes controlled by “wrong people” (basically anyone other than U.S. and maybe Russia).
And also a fatalistic attitude about nuclear annihilation, expressing a view that none of his buildings will even exist in 100 years (due to nuclear war).
In that light, the tweet seems to be saying that the U.S. must increase its nuclear threat so much that it can demand the elimination of certain countries’ nuclear capabilities altogether.
Probably starting with Iran and North Korea. Of course that plan will not end well. He really doesn’t recognize the concept of sovereignty for any but a select few nations.
Or maybe it’s the fact that nuclear weapons are very profitable for industries in Russia and the U.S. Uranium mining shares have shot up as well as the private companies that produce key components for nuclear weapons.
Cost overruns and fraud can be hidden from the public due to national security issues. The global oligarchy are making out like bandits.
Personally, if shit does go down, I’d want the bomb to drop right on me, quick death. Clean and fast with a minimum of suffering.
I just hope Trump and his supporters survive the bomb just long enough to truly experience the horrors of the nuclear war they so wanted.
Actually, nah, they’d still be blaming the liberals and Black Lives Matter until their last breath.
(https://youtu.be/fs1CIrwg5zU)
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“Actually, nah, they’d still be blaming the liberals”
The thing is, the far left is actually quite crazy and dangerous. This election (their control of the media narrative, who they supported and their response to losing) demonstrated that. I was posting somewhere else that was left-leaning and, from their behavior, they would abolish freedom of speech if they could. If you don’t agree with them, they call you names, portray you as a despicable person, then they declare that your opinion doesn’t matter because you’re evil. Have you seen some of the things LoM has said here? He expressed literal scorn and hatred for people with different political views. He’s an ideologue. He is not a caricature. Many are really like that.
The establishment of the left, which wholeheartedly supported Hillary Clinton, essentially exposed itself. Hillary Clinton did not stand for anything. For all the current Russophobia, she sold some of America’s uranium to Russia and the beneficiaries of that sale can be traced to donations to the Clinton Foundation. Her willingness to accept money from the governments of Saudi Arabia and Qatar through her foundation says everything we need to know. Being gay is death in Saudi Arabia, criticizing the state religion is death in Saudi Arabia, being a woman is second class citizenship in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia funds terrorist groups. Forced labor literally exists in Qatar in modern times. All of this is completely anti-American in principle and yet they’re throwing money at her and she was accepting it while claiming to stand for workers, gays, and women.
I say it is anti-American in principle while understanding that America has been guilty of many of those things. However, America’s constitution is not our enemy. Were it not for the constitution, marginalized groups would not have had a legal ground to stand on to argue for the same rights as everyone else. We would not have had the right to congregate in peaceful protest or freely express ourselves. It guarantees separation of church from state and therefore keeps religion from being directly a part of goverment despite the country’s Judeo-Christian heritage. It’s easy to take this for granted but some countries (like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia) have blasphemy laws, with the death penalty, that make it impossible to challenge their theocracies.
So by facilitating Hillary Clinton’s rise to power the establishment left (not necessarily the people who felt forced in November) proved that it had no moral foundation. It was clearly willing to betray those who have supported it in the past. It uses identity politics to gain power. That is its modus operandus and aim. It is not principled. There is a lot to critique the left about but it does not accept critique because it is so sure of its moral superiority. It is not capable of self-critique either as evidenced by its continuous evasion of the true reasons for its failure.
[I must give abagond credit for allowing certain opinions to be aired on HIS blog even if he does not agree. This is not the case everywhere]
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I view what has happened as a kind of balancing. There were no ideal choices but the Dems did not deserve another four years and this has become more clear to me after the election. There is a repressive, Orwellian undercurrent to the leftist movement. We see an aspect of that with their propaganda of portraying everyone who disagrees with them as something scary and dangerous [eg. blackagendareport is a Russian mouthpiece]. Americans had to show that they couldn’t be played like a fiddle. I know there are posters who agree with me on many other topics but we differ here. That’s fine. There are no hard feelings on my part. You may even change your mind with time.
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@ Origin
The same could be said about the Right.
@ Hip hop
Hillary as a proven war hawk was just as capable as launching nukes as Trump. It would be another glass ceiling for her to break.
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@mjb
Absolutely, I had a sentence related to that [ie. “the extreme right and left are feuding dragons and we’re caught in the middle”] but I took it out because it would really be a segue into a whole other conversation. I decided to stay on topic as the post was long enough already.
However the right did not have power and control of the narrative so the radical left was getting more and more brazen. That’s why they thought they could force us to swallow Hillary. That’s why I said the choices weren’t ideal but I view the result as a kind of “balancing”.
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@Origin
“There is a repressive, Orwellian undercurrent to the leftist movement. We see an aspect of that with their propaganda of portraying everyone who disagrees with them as something scary and dangerous [eg. blackagendareport is a Russian mouthpiece].”
I agree there is “a repressive, Orwellian undercurrent” to the Dems. However, I don’t see the Dems as authentic leftists. They haven’t even been able to say the words “working class” for the past 25 years. The Democratic party was hijacked by neo-liberal centrists when WJClinton was elected. They pushed a repressive slow motion austerity plan that the Repubs accelerated everytime they took over the White House.
That is why they attacked a slew of independent left sites like Black Agenda Report recently. They are the Left wing of the Establishment uniparty, which is well to the Right of they majority of Americans. They are as obsessed with control and dominance as the Repubs.
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@ Origin
“The thing is, the far left is actually quite crazy and dangerous.”
Damn. I’ve always thought of myself as being on the far left.
I’ve been told by a number of different people over the years that I’m actually a radical, but I don’t know exactly what the difference is or if that’s any better. Maybe it’s even more crazy!
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@Solitaire
I think we get a little crazy with labels. I’m talking about people with the described behavior who identify themselves as such. If you don’t think it applies to you then I wasn’t talking about you!
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Warren to Trump
oh the irony
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Can’t skip the post mortem on the Obama administration. The CIA installed “black” president. If you do you’re likely to be fooled again and make mistakes based upon your being fooled the first time. Shine the light. Shine the light.
Was Obama the First African-American President or a Political Poser?
(https://youtu.be/mhSZIX2uxIo)
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Donald Trump is Barack Obama in white face. There ain’t that much difference between what Trump’s gonna do than Barama’s already done.
(https://youtu.be/jJtI1YLQ_2k)
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There is no major far left. What Fox news ? CNN ?
F**K outta here.
Plus Trump won. So you need step out of campaign mode
It’s about Trump and be careful what you wish for.
Maybe the orange clown thinks he will look that much better with the glow of radiation ?
Look. Dude. You can carry thinking Trump is this tough guy and the way he just keeps on doubling down, because that’s what “tough guys” do in his understanding.
I mean – This is a guy who asked a foreign policy expert three times “Why do we have nuclear weapons if we don’t use them?”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/03/donald-trump-asked-why-us-cant-use-nuclear-weapons-if-he-becomes/
But I suppose Donald and his posse thinks they’ll be safe in their bunker while the rest of America slowly dies from the radioactive fall out poisoning.
He thinks he will survive, after all he does not believe climate change is real.
All these guys have bunkers, with 1,000 years worth of guns, ammo, and snacks to tide them over during the nuke winter, just in case their Tiny-fingered Tyrant’s itchy Tweeting Trigger finger accidentally sets of nuclear Armageddon.
Then, after a few days/weeks/months/ whatever, he thinks they can come out of their bunkers & pick up all loot not destroyed in the meltdowns.
But who will they persecute? Whose rights will they take away? There will be no liberals or lefties or BLM.
So since we’ll all be dead, too, who will they blame for everything? They’ll be so bored.
But here’s what Donald needs to realise.
There is no crawling out of a bunker
The residual radiation spread over the landmass of the planet will ensure at least 200 years of inhabitability and much longer for the consumption of food.
Therefore, any bunker must be able to withstand 200 years of continual habitation, air circulation, energy consumption and stored food and when the 10 generation of survivors finally manages to crawl out of the bunker, they will still starve or eat radioactive food and have horribly deformed children, thus ending humanity after a lengthy struggle for survival.
The only thing Nuclear Weapons were EVER good for is to threaten your neighbours on earth and promise self-destruction.
There is no them and us with nuclear weapons
When you threaten with nuclear weapons, you are only holding a gun to your own head and yelling. “I am going to kill myself, and you, and THEN you will be sorry.”
It’s murder-suicide
That is the very point The Pimp in Chief-defect does not get.
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Obama said that if he had been allowed to run for a third term he would have beaten Trump. In other words he would have gotten more votes than Clinton. How many here who did not vote for Hillary would have voted for Obama? Assuming that there are any here that didn’t vote for Hillary.
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@nomad
I would have written in Mickey Mouse before I voted for Obama. And he just gave me another reason why. Some nerve of him to say justice for blacks is not “politically feasible”.
Yes, the same guy who fought to elect abagond’s boss, protect “undocumented” people from being deported, NAFTA, spying on Americans and foreign allies, war in Libya, etc. wants us to believe justice for black people is too controversial and not worth fighting for.
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NAFTA should be TPP.
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@TheHipHopRecords
The issue of nuclear weapons is not a Trump vs Hillary, Republican vs Democrat issue. I have to have to laugh at people who are only just now concerned. Where was their concern when they were telling all of us to vote for another maniac? I suppose it’s better late than never but I’m not impressed by the high horse.
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I found this article on nuclear deterrence very interesting.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/hillary-clinton-nuclear-weapons-more-dangerous-trump-18241
The heading might be a turnoff to some (it was written back in October before the elections though I only found it recently) but it’s an interesting look at the politics of nuclear weapons.
Excerpt:
It’s a long article but I think it’s a good read. There’s a lot of black and white thinking on these issues but, IMO, they are not as clear-cut as one could easily be led to believe.
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@resw
“I would have written in Mickey Mouse before I voted for Obama.”
Just as I thought. No one who didn’t vote for Clinton would vote for Obama. It would kind of be the same thing. Hillary WAS Obama’s third term. Nobody, meaning me, wanted that. Nobody who didn’t vote for Hillary, that is. That was the other reason I could not have voted for her, aside from her individual awfulness. She was going to continue the Obama agenda. Obama is delusional. If he had been running I might have had to drag myself to the polls and pull the lever for Trump. Even though I live in the reddest of red states that had no chance whatsoever of going Democrat. Just to make a statement. To myself. I would vote for Trump before I’d vote for Obama. I’d vote for Mickey Mouse! Bullwinkle! Darth Vader! Beelzebub! There is only one politician I hate more than Clinton. Barack Effing Obama.
Obama! Get your treacherous ass out of the White House!
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@ Origin
Who on the far left (people. organizations) controls the media narrative?
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@abagond
“Who on the far left (people. organizations) controls the media narrative?”
No one. It’s the fake left that controls the media. Fake lefties like Clinton and Obama. With their fake (MSM) news.
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@nomad
+1000
The “fake left” MSM only has a problem with fake news these days because abagond’s “fake left” boss lost the election.
But abagond’s favourite “fake left” news conglomerate actually owns the grande dame of all fake news companies, The Onion, which has been fooling people for 28 years.
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@ resw
“But abagond’s favourite “fake left” news conglomerate actually owns the grande dame of all fake news companies, The Onion, which has been fooling people for 28 years.”
The only people “fooled” by the Onion are those lacking a pre-frontal cortex. The Onion describes itself this way:
http://www.theonion.com/about/
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In the real world, we know that several people with a “pre-frontal cortex” have been fooled by The Onion articles over the years, including Mitch McConnell, John Fleming, US Capitol Police staff, as well as the editors of Iran’s FARS News, China’s People’s Daily, and yes, even the sacred “fake left” New York Times.
Leave it to an avid supporter of abagond’s “fake left” boss to use a pathetic double standard for abagond’s favourite “fake left” media conglomerate’s 28-year-old fake news service.
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“Fake Left”. That’s a good one. Especially when they try to attack alternative with the tag “fake news”. When they are in many cases much more real than MSM. But fake is how I described Barack’s political approach early on. His main tactic. The analogy is basketball. He tells people he’s going to do one thing, but then does the opposite, all the while accusing the other team of fouls, even falling down sometimes when the Republicans barely touched him. Healthcare, Guantanamo, wars in the Mideast, freedom of speech, whistleblowers, BLM, you name it. His primary tactic, in driving to the hoop is “fake left, go right.” Fake left. Go right.
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@nomad
“He tells people he’s going to do one thing, but then does the opposite, all the while accusing the other team of fouls, even falling down sometimes when the Republicans barely touched him.”
Yass!
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@resw
“…have been fooled by The Onion articles over the years, including Mitch McConnell, John Fleming, US Capitol Police staff, as well as the editors of Iran’s FARS News, China’s People’s Daily, and yes, even the sacred “fake left” New York Times.”
No, that just shows that a lot of people are lucky enough to fail upward. LOL!
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Obama’s disgraceful spite filled exit. Sabotaging what’s left of US relationship with Russia over a made up fake story. No proof required. What an asshole.
(https://youtu.be/1IJMLfUPBug)
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@ nomad
So quick with the Putin propaganda, I see.
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not propaganda. that’s truth.
i’m quick because I keep up with important news
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keep your head in the sand if you like. not me.
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It’s quite ironic. On thread after thread you demonstrate that white Americans are the enemy of black people. And yet the white people who are actually friendly to us, who are actually in our corner, namely RT, you disdain. I say wake up, Abagond.
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And Putin is so cool. The little punk slaps him in the face on the way out, and he diplomatically turns the other cheek. “I’m not even going to retaliate.” Now that’s a statesman.
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i don’t think anyone outside the NSA or CIA has the definitive answer on the agents of this latest cybersecurity breach, cnn has made a statement on it, and of course WND, other than that it’s rather unclear
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There is no evidence that the Russians hacked the DNC. Just speculation from the CIA and FBI. Based on that and a story the New York Times ran Obama has leveled sanctions.
It’s no different then when Bush declared that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Because the CIA ext said so.
Propaganda generated through government sources is fake news.
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LOM said,
“Murdering political opponents is good statesmanship too, I suppose. So is conducting aggressive warfare against smaller neighboring countries.”
American Imperialism does the same thing on a lot larger scale.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“Sure. Yeah. What a statesman. Murdering political opponents is good statesmanship too, I suppose. So is conducting aggressive warfare against smaller neighboring countries. Yup. Great statesman. Beautiful statesman. The best statesman.”
I suppose you can back up your assertions. But even if true it is nothing of the scale that US has done. These horrendous war criminals that we have empowered!
In statesmanship Putin makes Obama look like a preschool brat by comparison.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Your link sounds like Russophobic BS to me. You’re going to have to provide a more credible source.
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@Nomad
There is plenty of evidence that Putin has been behind assassinations, shot down a commuter plane accidently over the Ukraine ect. Obama similarly is currently droning and targets people for assination.
Both sides do propaganda and can’t be trusted. Unless there is absolute evidence proving an event actually occurred any information coming from the goverment can’t be taken as fact.
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I stand corrected, us msm is totally blaming russia as of yesterday afternoon, guess my search was altered by including wikileaks as a keyword. That part is unclear ie where is the tracert or other obviously classified intelligence revealing russia’s hand as a sponsor for this event per se. Guess we just gotta trust em, right?
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I m definitely flashing back to hillz in the presidential debate!
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@MJB
“information coming from the goverment can’t be taken as fact.”
Right and most of our info about Russia comes from the most lyingness government in the world. Show me the proof. And again, even if true it is nothing on the scale that the US has done.
the US is the Biggest Threat to World Peace
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/19/why-the-us-is-the-biggest-threat-to-world-peace/
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Crimea? You mean that Obama orchestrated coup?
As I say, nothing on the scale of USA.
Hillary alone has killed more people, including political enemies.
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I said,
“information coming from the goverment can’t be taken as fact.”
I’ll correct that say “from any government”
I’m not taking sides here.
Russia does aspire to regain politicale power regionally that they lost when the Soviet Union collapsed. The U.S. wishes to maintain its economic global oligarchy. Those are both true statements.
I think there is a fallacy that democracies cannot be police states and that police states only exist in communist or facist states.
To LOM’s artical one point I would agree with is the Russians are white supremacist and il-liberal. But the whole of Europe is moving that direction and we also saw that here as well in the U.S. with the rise of Trump.
Nomad used the descriptor “Stateman”. I see a word like that as how some politicians view themselves. I can’t recall anybody who I would consider a true “Statesman”. Maybe MLK, Gandi, Mandela.
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They were not politicians. Putin and the Russian politicians in general are statesmen. Especially compared to Hillary, Obama, Samantha Power, John Kirby and the rest of the ham handed wrecking crew. Look at this abysmal and unprofessional performance by our highest State Department spokesperson.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/state-dept-vs-pro-kremlin-tv-i-cant-believe-honestly-you-arent
Utterly embarrassing!
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@MJB
“I’m not taking sides here. ”
And that’s a problem. You need to take a side against corruption and evil.
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My point Nomad is that they are both corrupt and evil.
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That’s the all sides do it fallacy. I repeat. It’s the scale of the criminality and corruption that distinguishes America. And no, Russia is not evil. THey are working for good. The recent Syrian cease fire sans America is a stark example. Your empire, MJB, is the evil one. More evil by far.
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I’m going to change your statement to make a point.
“It’s the scale of the criminality and corruption that distinguishes the State.”
States don’t function for “good”. They function in terms of self preservation and expansion.
Both the U.S. and Russia have nukes that could destroy the planet many times over. Both have a monopoly on violence within their respective regions. Both are police states, have expansive prison systems, spy domestically on their civilians as well as those abroad, and create their own propaganda and influence their own media. Both impose their economic needs on other countries, participate in regime change and persue cyber attacks. Both are nationalistic and are suspicious of foreigners.
If the Republicans had been in charge over the last eight years nothing I have written above would be different. If Putin hadn’t been in charge over the last eight years whoever replaced him would be pursuing the same foreign policy as Putin.
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there’s that fallacy again. you don’t know that. the point is weve got criminals at the head of our government. weve allowed our gov to be taken over by criminals. take some responsibility for the carnage we are causing across the globe. Russia is only reacting to the hell we are raising if you don’t recognize that you are in denial. states are not equally evil. this nation rivals the evil of Nazism.
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This is how evil we are. From the ultimate whistleblower. A real insider.
FBI Agent Confirms Child Trafficking Cover Up: #PizzaGate #SaveOurChildren
(https://youtu.be/57GVIbVkHQY)
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Regardless of Russia’s actual virtues or vices it seems clear to me that most of the russophobia being pushed in the media is propaganda and scapegoating.
I mean, Russia is such a danger and a threat yet this happened?
Try again Obama.
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A question; Do any of you think the States is doing the same thing as the Russians? I mean hacking them?
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@Hernieth
Supposedly the FBI is having a hard time hiring hackers because they all smaoke pot lol
http://extract.suntimes.com/news/10/153/12806/fbi-hackers-marijuana-employee-hiring-problems
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Snowden on the NSA being hacked.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/snowden-leak-nsa-hacking-tools-russias-warning-us-government/219660/
Most governments want hackers to steal I.P. secrets. That’s China’s main use of them.
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well maybe catching a little scratch (ie traction) on this one?
still, it’s paid damage control from the DNC
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get yer geek on with this webcast! this crowdstrike company is not shy
https://www.crowdstrike.com/resources/crowdcasts/bear-hunting-history-and-attribution-of-russian-intelligence-operations/
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@herneith russia’s graciously telling us they are graciously not expelling our diplomats? the magic 8 ball says “probably yes”
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This is how evil we are, as black people who supported Obama. How evil we have become. How evil Barack Obama has made us. Take responsibility, black people, for helping propagate evil across the globe. I agree with Paul Craig Roberts.
“Obama is without doubt the worst president ever. And that he was aligned with evil. He did evil in the world. Terrible evil!. And er All I can say is when January 20 comes it’s good riddance!”
(https://youtu.be/9PGv8VZ0QN8?t=13m35s)
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Learn something new everyday.
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Well I’ll be damned. Someone who actually knows about nuclear deterrence, outside of that Metal Gear Solid crappy.
Also, the US security curtain is not for the deter an attacker, but to feed of the host. Basing is paid for by the host nation. It also gives the excuse of keeping an oversized defense industry when these same industrialized nations can develop their own navies and nukes. American infrastructure is falling apart, while these these nations have all kinds of high speed rail and what not. Maybe the US should re-evaluate its priorities.
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Just happened to catch BET Obama farewell concert or whatever. Didn’t watch the whole thing of course. From my POV it was kind of disturbing. But I noticed it was titled “Love and Happiness” and the theme from that song kept recurring. As much mileage as Obama got out of Al Green, he admired him enough to imitate him, why wasn’t he there? Has he ever performed at or even visited the Whitehouse? Just curious. Seeing as how Green’s a preacher seems he would have been a perfect fit for Obama’s connecting with black people, especially in the heartland. I dunno. Just strikes me as a curious omission.
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Update: On June 6th, in Chiafalo v Washington, the Supreme Court upheld the right of states to remove or punish Hamilton electors. Peter Chiafalo was an elector in Washington state who voted for Colin Powell instead of Hillary Clinton.
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