I got to take a break from all this Trump stuff just to clear my head and gain some perspective. And to make some progress on Native American Heritage Month, which I am extending to December 29th.
I will still be doing posts on Trump’s top men (women?), but that can wait till January. Till then I will be limiting my media diet to Indian Country Today, Univision, the Root, Democracy Now! and some yet-to-be-determined Asian American news source (suggestions welcomed).
Requests: In the meantime, I will only do a Trump-related post if three or more commenters request a particular post idea. That should limit it to the essentials.
Update (February 24th, 18.53 GMT): As part of my “break from all this Trump stuff” I am putting the Trump Non-Fan Club on ignore, except as a moderator.
See also:
” on Wed 23 Nov 2016 at 11:03:54
abagond
@ gro jo
My apologies. I got the comments mixed up. I probably do need a break. My brain is kind of fried right now.”
Thank you for the apology and taking my advice. heal you heel! You didn’t really think I’d go all soppy on you did you?
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@Abagond,
When I first read “some yet-to-be-determined Asian American news source”, I thought you meant as a source for Native American material. LOL
But, I saw your note under Vincent Chin, so I get that you just mean in general.
When I lived in the USA, I subscribed to AsianWeek in the 1980s, and my father continued the subscription after I moved away until he died in 1999. I sometimes followed it online, but it shut down a few years ago.
I used to buy A Magazine sometimes in the USA, but that shut down too. Since then I have not been following Asian American media on any kind of regular basis, except occasionally a few blogs (eg, Angry Asian Man). A few Asian discussion forums were a bit scathing towards “Hapas”, and whereas I would like to know what they think, I cannot hang around them too much.
As far as Chinese American stuff, I am concerned that they may be overly influenced by non-American sources, ie, PRC media or their antithesis, the FaLunGong. I am also looking for good media that focuses on Asian America. I can ask around some more – I do know a few people in the USA into that stuff. I will get back to you.
Another thing — I think the Asian American experience is so varied that it is difficult for any media source to capture it well. There are few shared interests to link up the different groups (and group segments), but maybe the Age of Trump will change things.
To tell the Truth, I found this blog. It has (or aspires to have) more stuff relative to my experience.
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@Abagond…” got to take a break from all this Trump stuff just to clear my head and gain some perspective.”
Great idea, Brother! I decided to wait until the election was over to write anything of substance about this shit-show. In hindsight, after having my brain assaulted then numbed by the primaries and all the bobble-head chatter from the presstitute media up to 11/8, I’ve gotten a better, more panoramic view, if you will, of a lot of the machinations that led up to this spectacle. Still haven’t put the proverbial pen to paper yet, but I will!
While Hillary wasn’t even a consideration for me given her history, I’m still glad to have had your insight all through it! Exhale Brother, you deserve it!
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Be Well..!!
I hope that during your extended look at Native Americans you at least devote an article to chattel slavery in America practiced by Native Americans known as the “5-Civilized Tribes”.
While it would be grossly unfair to paint ALL Native American tribes as practitioners of chattel slavery, it would be grossly disrespectful to give a pass to those tribes that enslaved our African ancestors and served as slave-catchers that sold runaway slaves back to their owners.
In addition, please point out the past articles you’ve written in the past on chattel slavery among the 5-Civilized Tribes.
Again, Be Well…..
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“I got to take a break from all this Trump stuff just to clear my head and gain some perspective.”
You clearly need it.
“Till then I will be limiting my media diet to Indian Country Today, Univision, the Root, Democracy Now! ”
No wonder you’re so intolerant. All New York City media, two of which owned by the same big company.
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resw
Hmmm… Good insight.
“In 2015, Graham Holdings sold The Root to Univision Communications.” WikiP
It’s good to know which corporation is shaping our thoughts and attitudes.
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Excuse me once again for my usual double take. Shades of 1984. It’s called Uni, for gosh sakes; as in ‘everybody thinking the same thing’. It resonates with the one voice the media spoke in leading up to the election. Trump called them on the carpet for this “Univision”.
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what! i’ll never get this bolding right. I’ll use caps
Shades of 1984. It’s called Univision, for gosh sakes;
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lol. editor took out the caps. UNI-vision
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@ Nomad
“It’s good to know which corporation is shaping our thoughts and attitudes.”
Edward Bernays, the Amerikan father of public relations, (P.R./press releases) and propaganda, would be so, sooo proud of our own Abagond for leading the most important “blue pill” defense of his lesser of the two evils choice, the most wicked and dishonest among all individuals in politics today, the criminal vixen extraordinaire, Hillary (let’s go to war against Russia now!) Clinton.
Let’s all just give it up (thunderous APPLAUSE!) one time, for Abagond and his band of merry, yet dedicated, followers for staying true to their probable fascist heroine, the immutable and distinguished, HRC.
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Original Native American
The turkey was Benjamin Franklin’s choice for the United States’s national bird. The noble fowl was a favored food of Native Americans. When Europeans arrived, they made it one of only two domestic birds native to the Americas—the Muscovy duck shares the distinction.
happy what every you call the last Thursday of november!
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Black Sci Fi Would you give the “slave thing” a break please. During the period of slavery in the United States and probably all other nations Black “people of means (financially capable)” held slaves as well as other “people of means”.
Slavery was a common practice at that time and your denying the total inclusion of all “people of means” by selectively picking on any one group of people is childish.
Please let us get on with some positive information about the current Abagon subject.
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“Let’s all just give it up (thunderous APPLAUSE!) one time, for Abagond and his band of merry, yet dedicated, followers for staying true to their probable fascist heroine, the immutable and distinguished, HRC.”
Linda says,
no, no Fan
let’s hand it to you and the unholy trinity for supporting and championing Alt-right wing, white Nationalist rhetoric and narratives
you all put on a fabulous show
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it’s one thing for all of us to discuss and disagree on “house business”… things that affect us all as African descendants
but it’s a whole new ball game when you, as black men, work overtime on a black blog to praise a white man (Trump), while heavily criticizing a white woman (Clinton)….
2 white people whose families have been friends for years and are still friends (that’s why Trump will never prosecute her for the e-mails, white people know when its time to stick together)
to top it off, you all as black men, are parroting the party lines of white Nationalist… narratives that they have been pushing around on the Internet for years …
and then you are wondering why the rest of us are not excited about agreeing with obvious Right-wing, alt-right conspiracy theorists
you would get more points for your “independent thinking” if you said:
the world is run by the Illuminati… so f’ck it.. let’s all be anarchists
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@resw
So what news outlets do you recommend?
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“to top it off, you all as black men, are parroting the party lines of white Nationalist… narratives that they have been pushing around on the Internet for years …”
Really??
No, NO Linda, you got it twisted and very wrong. First Rabab & TBD was saying I was a white/latino person and now here you come … lol, stating that I’ve gone over to their side. I had expected better from someone I thought possessed a keen intellect. I’ve been disappointed before, but being disappointed before doesn’t make my realization about you any less sad!
Speaking for myself (because I don’t represent anyone but me!) :
If stating that Trump might be a bit less prone at avoiding an all out (or partial) nuclear exchange with Russia equals praise for or with the white nationalist party, or saying that HC has far more criminal inclinations than he does equates to parroting the white folks’ “narrative that they have been pushing around on the Internet for years” , then that is patently false since Trump hasn’t been running against Clinton for years.
These are the major points re my stance on the matter:
1. Clinton is more likely than Trump in fighting a war with Russia
2. Clinton leads Trump by several galaxies regarding who is the most scandal ridden/criminal opponent between the two.
3. As soon as HC stepped into the process, I shared my concerns on this site re her criminal past well before Trump became the apparent republican nominee! Amerikans have rather short memories when the MSM isn’t re-feeding them old news.
“to top it off, you all as black men, are parroting the party lines of white Nationalist… narratives that they have been pushing around on the Internet for years …”
But since you brought it up, WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE PARTY LINES… NARRATIVES I’ve been parroting that the white nationalist folks have been pushing around … for years??? Please back up your accusations with some things that I wrote that supports your allegations.
After you’ve proven your point (if you can… how long do you need??) we should probably not waste each others’ time with all of this already well hashed out over several threads with more “blah, blah, blah” back and forth exchanges. I’m not going to change your mind. You’re certainly not going to change mine. If I were to vote, it would never be for anyone like HC. Period! Not ever. (Is that declaration a white nationalist narrative??)
Anyone who has read my comments over the length of time I’ve been commenting on this site SHOULD KNOW by now how ardent and forceful I am against any and all things having to do with racism/white supremacy/superiority, in addition to being a general supporter/advocate of Black/African people wherever they might be.
HOWEVER, if you or they have been swallowing those complacency causing, mind altering Blue Pills, then I really can’t expect y’all to have much in the way of lucid/sane thought, sight, reasoning or logic.
I wish you and the other Blue Pill swallowers here, well. I have no animosity toward you guys. You’ve been a great source of entertainment and fun that’s now beginning to get repetitious, tiresome and old. Too bad you didn’t enter the fray earlier! I now have no desire (or time) to argue/reason with every single HC supporter (or Obomber supporter) who pops up out of the woodwork making crazy, ignorant, illogical and/or unsupported accusations.
Happy Holidays Linda
Be safe
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Like I said. Not supporting the insidiously racist, criminally insane, physically ill, murderous, reckless and incompetent Hillary is racial heresy. Repent ye, black men! Verily, I say unto you: that is politically incorrect.
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And the irony is the lady that Hillarions worship has done more harm to black Americans, Africans and Haitians than any other government official. Except for Barack Obama. And they worship him more! What utter hypocrisy!
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@Nomad
She didn’t say you had to support Hillary. I don’t support either but I know that if I talk junk it will be about both. Yall are going in on Hillary but acting as if trumps ain’t making a neo-Nazi cabinet. You worried about Hillary who didn’t get in instead of Trump who actually is in and can make your lives h*ll.
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not at all. its obscene to keep going on about this corrupt person as if she would have been a better choice. she wouldn’t. that’s what the assumption here is and it is the hillarions that, and this thread is an example, keep bringing up Hillary. don’t want to hear me bash this witch, don’t bring her up. we can move on.
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@ Fan
@ nomad
“Heroine”? “Worship”? Really?
Get a grip. I voted for her as the lesser of two evils. You know that. That hardly counts as hero-worship. Or even hypocrisy.
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and ii will bash/discuss whoever I like. yall don’t tell me who to bash hate or what to think.. i don’t subscribe to Univision.
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I” voted for her as the lesser of two evils. You know that. That hardly counts as hero-worship.”
Then quit acting like it’s some great loss that she didn’t win. When two evils compete with each other, it hardly matters who wins.
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@ nomad
1. I voted for her as the lesser of two evils, so I am not bent up because she lost (good riddance) but because her opponent won. If I thought they were equally evil, more or less, then I would have likely voted Green, as I have done in the past.
2. To pick up on what Sharina said, hate crimes have gone through the roof, Trump fills his cabinet with racists once considered beyond the pale, and yet here you are still on your Hillary bashathon, 16 DAYS AFTER SHE LOST! As if she were still somehow the gravest threat we face. Why is that? Did you vote for Trump? Are you White? Do you live outside the US? Is someone paying you? Are you a one-trick troll? What am I missing?
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Maybe everybody needs a break from the Trump/Hillary debacle.
It’s no longer important who the perceived “greater evil” was as the election is over.
What is important is who Trump surrounds himself and opposing any policy that interfere with the Constitutional rights of individuals.
So far Trump is choosing an administration who is comfortable with wielding power and passing laws that interfer with the rights of individuals.
I think a Trump presidency will be focused inward on the country and not outward like the neo liberal/neo cons. Muslims and percieved foreigners will be what is targeted.
Trump is not a small goverment Republican and is quite comfortable leveraging debt as a businessman so he will have no problem leveraging the national treasury to “make America great agsin”.
Trump’s formula of deregulation, tax cuts and spending programs will put the economy on steroids
and though he won’t be able to bring manufacturing jobs back he will get enough stimulus to create the illusion of a prosperous economy.
The greatest threat is that Trump creates a prosperous economy and Americans reward him by going along with his more paranoid policies like a national Muslim registry and deportations.
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Suggestion:
If you really want to “move on” from discussing Clinton don’t open the door by implying that everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary is racist or sexist for allowing Trump to win. This follows the MSM narrative of blaming everyone from Comey, for investigating Clinton as he’s supposed to, to Stein or Johnson for daring to take part in the democratic process, while absolving Clinton, who couldn’t even be bothered to campaign as hard as Trump, of all blame. Anyone who doesn’t buy that narrative will be provoked to respond. Clinton was not entitled to the presidency by default, she had to earn it and she couldn’t actually do so. Not everyone had to subscribe to fear-based “lesser evil” voting (and even then it’s arguable who was the lesser evil).
I sense that the “moving on” that is desired is for people who didn’t vote for Clinton to admit they were wrong and repent now that Trump has won. The fact that people who made decisions months ago are not suddenly changing their mind is causing some frustration. Yet these differences of opinion are not new. What is new is the element of “crying over spilt milk”. Yes, Trump is president-elect. But the election is more a rejection of Clinton than a wholehearted embrace of Trump. That is something that can be built on, if we cease berating or demonizing, implicitly or explicitly, everyone who didn’t help Clinton become Queen.
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My future has just flashed before my eyes: I will be spending the next four to eight years dealing with Trumpbots, on and offline. Even in the internment camps (that’s a joke, I hope).
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Abagond
You should have been doing stories about the letdown real Black Americans, who don’t spell “centre” as you do, felt after eight years of being jerked around by Obama. Your main source, NYT, did such story: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage®ion=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article
Note that these are authentic working class Blacks interviewed in this story. The gist of their comments is: We don’t care for either the lesser or greater evil. We’re hurting and want something done about it. A sensible attitude. No tap dancing by them! Why, in your opinion, is the Clinton campaign not interested in persuing a recount of the vote in states like Wisconsin?
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Fan @ I wish you and the other Blue Pill swallowers here, well. I have no animosity toward you guys.
Linda says,
the only problem with that sentiment is that I’m not a “blue pill swallower” because I don’t really care about the American election…if I’m not American, can I vote?
As an immigrant, neither political party has been a friend to me or my family…especially Obama’s administration…I’ve had family members deported under his watch over b’sht that white Americans get a slap on the wrist for.
I don’t comment much on American politics because, in reality, it’s almost none of my business but I can still have my thoughts and comments about American politicians because I still have to pay taxes
Since I contribute my money to this country, then I can add my 2 cents every once in a while.
That being said, I’m pulling my statements about what you wrote, from what I’ve read
As a voter, you have every right in the world to analyze and criticize the people running for public office… that is your 1st amendment right
but the problem I have with what you and others have written, is that it is one sided — where is the analysis and critique of the other candidates running for the presidency????
Maybe I missed it but I did not see you analyzing and criticizing candidate Trump, Stein, or Johnson
it was all about Hillary Clinton, on and on like a broken record …
From what I’ve seen most black Americans on this blog didn’t like Hillary from the start and wanted Bernie to win… it’s not like you were here by yourself bashing Hillary… y
your negative assessment of Hillary seems to be shared by many of the people you call “blue pill swallowers”
but when it came time to give a negative assessment of Trump… radio silence from you and the others
unless I missed it from the many hundreds of comments
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@Nomad
If I count correctly you brought up Clinton more times than anyone on this blog. Many times to excuse or bypass trumps behavior. So I think you may need to start with yourself when considering not bringing her up.
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@Sharina
Yall are going in on Hillary but acting as if trumps ain’t making a neo-Nazi cabinet. You worried about Hillary who didn’t get in instead of Trump who actually is in and can make your lives h*ll.
Great points!
Hillary has been a non-issue for 16 days now. Top of mind for me is how will the Black community [and other vulnerable communities] survive for the next 8 to 10 years? What is coming down the pike is something most of us have not experienced for 60 years. Actually what Trump’s henchmen have in mind for Black folk is more serious than anything my Mississippi grandparents ever faced.
Abagond has been employing gallows humor with mention of “detention camps”. More likely are vigilante attacks on Black communities, pogroms (like those experienced by Black folk in the Red Summer of 1919), disappearances and forced labor camps aka slavery.
Bashing HRClinton is a form of self pleasuring——feels good but it’s not moving the Black community forward. Clinton’s real and imagined criminality are past. Trump’s very real criminality is past, present and future.
Time to think and plan for the future.
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@Origin
” But the election is more a rejection of Clinton than a wholehearted embrace of Trump.”–If it was that simply then Jill Stein or Gary Johnson would have had more votes. People really just jumped from one party to the next.
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On another post, I had asked Resw “why he was only criticizing Clinton and not criticizing Trump?”
He said “he wasn’t interest in criticizing Trump”… OK… but Why not????
Every candidate has pros and cons… just the same way, there are 2 sides to every story
I was almost fascinated by the fanaticism because in my opinion:
as a black men, you all don’t have any real skin in this game !
you can afford to praise or insult both sides of the political wall …who the h’ll cares … black America does not decide who runs this country
it’s not necessary for black people to “ride and die” for any political party or any politician
but it is important to pick the political candidate that will at least be an advocate for your groups best interest
When it came to what was in the best of interest of “black America” Hillary said what was expedient.. Donald Trump didn’t say sh’t that was worthwhile
since they both sucked… then it should have been easy for you all to analyse both candidate’s good and bad points.
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@michaeljonbarker
Good point. I would add this to your last sentence:
“The greatest threat is that Trump creates [the illusion of] a prosperous economy and [White] Americans reward him by going along with his more paranoid policies like a national Muslim registry and deportations.”
He is quite a charlatan. He will do things that look good but only line his pockets and those of his associates. He will complete the economic strip mining of this country that WJClinton started.
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@sharinair
@Nomad
“If I count correctly you brought up Clinton more times than anyone on this blog. Many times to excuse or bypass trumps behavior. So I think you may need to start with yourself when considering not bringing her up.”
You’re not counting correctly. I discussed her when she was topic of blog posts along with everybody else.. And then after the election I was responding to people who kept saying that my critique was not valid. That she wasn’t leading us to war with Russia for example. And even if I did, so what? I don’t care what you think I need to do. I do I say what I think. And I think for myself. And I have never brought her up to excuse or bypass Trump. If you think I have then show me where.
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@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)
I find it ODD that you all can get so upset about HRC’s crimes, imagined and real, and yet not say a WORD about Trump not making his tax return public or his conflicts of interest. Since he, not Hillary, will be the president, that should be a far greater concern to any true anti-corruptionist at this point.
Your hatred of Hillary is irrational. There are good reasons to hate her, sure, but to keep on about it 16 days after she lost seems a bit unhinged.
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@Liinda
“since they both sucked… then it should have been easy for you all to analyse both candidate’s good and bad points.”
i’m gonna leave that to someone evenhanded like yourself. that’s your priority. not mine.
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abagond
you really want to rehash this? i thought you were taking a break or something. I certainly was through with the subject. but if you’re going to call my critique of Hillary irrational and delusional, then you’re reopening the argument. there is nothing irrational or delusional about criticizing this murderous racist warmonger.
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@Afrofem
Exactly!!
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@nomad
I will find the post, but you were going on a basic rant of Hillary which included videos. In one post you even stated “Just one more and then I will be done.” Some were in response to others, but a great deal was not.
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@ nomad
I do not want to rehash it. I am wondering why it is still going on 16 days after she lost. It is not as if I have been doing posts on her.
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“Your hatred of Hillary is irrational. There are good reasons to hate her, sure, but to keep on about it 16 days after she lost seems a bit unhinged. ”
Too bad. Long as you keep bringing her up I feel I have a right to respond.
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“It is not as if I have been doing posts on her.”
Of course you have. On her the election an the debates. But beyond that.
You’re not going to pronounce me delusional irrational and unhinged and expect me not to respond.
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@ jefe
Thank you.
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@nomad
When I have time I will post more, but here is a post criticizing trump. Here is your response basically “excusing or bypass trumps behavior” by throwing out Clinton. Yet her deeds do not change his.
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“since they both sucked… then it should have been easy for you all to analyse both candidate’s good and bad points.”
Linda,
Let’s get this straight.
I’m not here to serve your or anyone else’s need for an analysis of BOTH candidates’ good and bad points to your stated satisfaction. If that’s what you’re looking for, you’re talking to the wrong man. What I said has been clear enough for the average 3rd grader to comprehend. I’m not responsible for writing in a style suited to your preferred format.
“Hillary said what was expedient..”
Hillary always has said “expedient” BS to further her agenda. Whether it’s to dodge an implication in the virtually countless investigations she has been/is the center of, or to advance some illegal/immoral leanings. If it involves prolific lying (as it always does) she has no problem doing what she has always done to the public and the media. Lie! She’s highly likely the greatest liar of all time! Spectacular liars of her caliber are the most extremely dangerous people in existence!! Adding her proclivity for crime to her lies, she takes criminality to a whole new never before seen level. She is OFF THE CHARTS.
Now, I’ve got some holiday festivities to enjoy!
🙂
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In the original post I did not say a WORD about Hillary. Not a single one. On this thread it was Fan who brought in the Hillaryphobia:
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@ nomad
Way to take my words out of context.
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I’m going to take back what I said about “black America does not decide who runs this country” because that’s not really true
black Americans are a part of the process and can/do influence politicians via their political parties
but in order to get policies that are within black America’s interest, white politicians have to be on board as advocates – and that is the rub
the real power is at the State level… more black Americans need to turn out in larger numbers to vote in the local elections.
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Update: As part of my “break from all this Trump stuff” I am putting the Trump Non-Fan Club on ignore, except as a moderator.
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“Fan @ Let’s get this straight.
I’m not here to serve your or anyone else’s need for an analysis of BOTH candidates’ good and bad points to your stated satisfaction.”
Nomad @ i’m gonna leave that to someone evenhanded like yourself. that’s your priority. not mine.
Linda says,
It’s not about “my satisfaction” — it’s about your credibility
by only discussing and criticizing Hillary but not saying 1 negative word against Trump… your views on the subject loses value
who buys a car without looking at it’s engine or history?
since Trump doesn’t pay you… why are you advocating for him for all your worth?
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@Sharina
“If it was that simply then Jill Stein or Gary Johnson would have had more votes. People really just jumped from one party to the next.”
You can reject Clinton by voting for Trump. My statement was based on how close the election was and the generally low favorability ratings of both.
What happened is that Trump got narrow wins in all the big important swing states (and therefore took ALL the delegates) while Clinton got millions more votes than needed to win New York and California where Trump basically conceded and hardly campaigned.
There doesn’t appear to have been a mass switching from one party to the other among white people who barely changed from their 2012 Romney split.
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Fan.. I’m not mad at you either…
I hope you enjoy your Holiday… eat alot and gain 5 pounds 🙂
you and I agree, wayy more than we disagree but I’m am proud of my attempt to look at things from both sides
I believe in “ying and yang”.. life is a circle, not a straight line and I have to call things as I see them being “unbalanced”
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@ Allen Shaw,
Information about the Native American (5-Civilized Tribes) practice of chattel slavery throughout the region of the southern US is valuable information for African Americans.
I would suggest that this information is both fitting and relevant on Thanksgiving. This topic becomes especially pertinent when we (African Americans) extend our collective sympathies to ALL Native Americans without noting the distinction between friend and foe among any and all practitioners of mass oppression.
Happy Thanksgiving..!!
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@abagond
“I find it ODD that you all can get so upset about HRC’s crimes, imagined and real, and yet not say a WORD about Trump not making his tax return public or his conflicts of interest. Since he, not Hillary, will be the president, that should be a far greater concern to any true anti-corruptionist at this point.
Your hatred of Hillary is irrational. There are good reasons to hate her, sure, but to keep on about it 16 days after she lost seems a bit unhinged. ”
I don’t recall saying I hated Clinton or expressing any personal feelings towards her. I didn’t want her to be president for what I considered to be valid reasons. She wasn’t elected. I’m not crying about it. Why should I? Granted, if she’d won I wouldn’t have been crying either but I would have been pretty worried.
However, YOU have posted MANY articles since the election putting forth theories for why Hillary Clinton lost which I think are innacurate. I have responded to those posts to express my opinion. By harping on the less significant reasons your candidate lost you naturally open the door for people to examine the actual reasons: your candidate’s atrociousness. If that is “being unhinged” then you should probably turn the mirror on yourself.
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Fan @ But since you brought it up, WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE PARTY LINES… NARRATIVES I’ve been parroting that the white nationalist folks have been pushing around … for years??? Please back up your accusations with some things that I wrote that supports your allegations.
Linda says,
since you asked… I definitely will show you just how “close to the tapping slope” you came with your comments
but not today… but I promise, I will get back to you on this
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@sharinalr
“nomad
When I have time I will post more, but here is a post criticizing trump. Here is your response basically “excusing or bypass trumps behavior” by throwing out Clinton. Yet her deeds do not change his.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/how-donald-trump-is-worse-than-hillary-clinton/#comment-357514”
that’s laughable.
#15: This is purely hypothetical, like saying Hillary may start WW3.
Though both hypothetical, there is no evidence for the former but ample indication that she is heading in that direction. She has certainly been fear mongering and demonizing and as I said on the other thread directly threatening military action against Russia.
nothing untrue or proTrump about it. you guys are projecting.
but let me read some more. I can only take so much of this Univision at a time.
what’s the expression lmao.
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@Origin
You can, but as I stated it is not that simple. Most people who lay the claim that they were rejecting Clinton or rejecting the establishment act as if they did not have other choices outside of Clinton or trump. I have watched several people make the argument and can’t or wont wrap their head around the idea that you can reject Clinton and still have voted for Stein or Johnson.
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@nomad
“nothing untrue or proTrump about it. you guys are projecting.”—Nor was my contention that it was untrue or pro-Trump. My contention here is that in a discussion that is about Trump and his misdeeds you chose to deflect to Hillary and hers rather than address his.
Such a shame you laugh at your delusions, but okay.
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@sharina
That argument also applies to those who voted for Clinton to reject Trump. Could have voted third party. They’ll tell you their reasons for not doing so.
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@Origin
It could, but then we would be making the argument “they did it too”. Which I believe is a fallacy and beside the point that you presented. Either way the idea of rejecting one or the other can take place by voting third party.
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Regarding Trump’s tax returns:
I think they will reveal that as a real estate developer and brocker he is able able to write everything off including his extravagant life style.
Whatever equity that builds up within his real estate holdings he leverages that by investing in more real estate. Whatever profits he makes in other business ventures he puts back into new business ventures and real estate. His jets ect all that he can write off. He uses his wealth to leverage and gains a write off.
If a particular business doesn’t make a profit he declares bankruptcy and people don’t get paid and investors don’t get their money back. His multiple corperations allows him to compartmentalize loss and leverage profit.
So when he releases his tax returns I’m not sure whether there is really a smoking gun there that makes Trump a criminal.
The conflict of interest argument is valid but my understanding is that there are no laws in place restricting him from profiting from “insider knowledge” as a president as his investments are not tied directly to the stock market. The laws against insider trading are tied to the stock market.
I’m more worried about civil liberties being curtailed and massive deficits in goverment spending then I am with him making money. I think the conflict of interest is real but I’m not sure how to legally fix it that wouldn’t create unintended consequences else where.
I’m going to do some speculation:
There has been a lot of talk about the Republican party imploding. I’m not so sure and I think the MSM gets it wrong again. It seems more likely the Democrats implode and a progressive wing emerges that pushes the party to the left in order to remain relevant.
Trump is going to take a page out of the new Democrat play book and push for infustructure and spending programs because he can’t wait to see his name on briges, dams, roads ect. But that is in part progressive economics so the left wing of the Democratic Party will have some competion when it comes to displacing Trump in the following election cycle.
There was no way the Republicans under Obama would have signed on to anything like what Trump envisions. Will the Republicans go along with it? I think so as the establishment of both parties underestimated Trump and now are worried about how their base will vote coming the next election cycle if they oppose Trump.
So it is possible that the Republican party becomes the “new Republicans” and the country trends to nationalism and economic populism to build a new coalition made up of mostly whites and middle class non whites.
Trumps economics will lead to an economic expansion but long term increased deficits from tax cuts and increased goverment spending will lead to a massive increase in the national debt that will lead to a bust cycle or worse, dollar implosion.
The Soviet Union collapsed because they went bankrupt fighting the cold war. Since then they have stabilized their economy, paid down their debt and are in a position to expand again. The U.S. needs to be wary of deficit spending and Trump will maximize as much stimulus as possible as that’s his business modle and part of his “make America great,” plan.
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@Sharina
It could, but then we would be making the argument “they did it too”.
You’re the one who brought it up (the third party option) and you were using it specifically to imply, if I understood you correctly, that people who voted for Trump must have absolutely loved everything about him. I’m not making a “they did it too” argument, I’m just pointing out that the same argument applies equally. We have a blog owner here who said he “hated” Clinton but voted for her. Why didn’t he vote third party? If you can answer that, you’d probably get the mirrored answer from some Trump supporters.
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During Trump’s campaign he said that Hilary Clinton should be thrown in jail, but now that he’s President-elect Trump he’s telling his followers to leave Hilary alone. Many people who oppose Trump might say that he’s being his old hypocritical self. I wouldn’t say that at all about Trump, but I will say that at the END OF THE DAY White people still look out for one another, regardless of political or religious differences.
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Abagond, let us know how long your “break from all this Trump stuff” last?
When you return to the fray, I hope you’ll deign to look at the unwillingness of HRC and her minions to ask for a recount in the states where Trump’s lead is razor thin. I would like to know what you think of the Black working class’s disenchantment with the Democrats, from Obama to HRC, as recounted in the NYT article I linked to in my comment above?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-final-100-days-clinton-and-trump-to-chart-different-paths-to-white-house/2016/07/30/ac58a59e-55c4-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html
Chuck Schumer before the election:
‘Yeah, who cares, we’ll lose some blue-collar Democrats but we’ll pick up some moderate Republicans’
He’ll be the Senate minority leader.
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Meanwhile in the Trump camp (from the same article)
WGAF vs actually trying to get the votes? I wonder what might be the most effective strategy in those swing states?
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sharinalr
“nomad
“nothing untrue or proTrump about it. you guys are projecting.”—Nor was my contention that it was untrue or pro-Trump. My contention here is that in a discussion that is about Trump and his misdeeds you chose to deflect to Hillary and hers rather than address his.
Such a shame you laugh at your delusions, but okay.”
call it what you will. I call it projection on your part. and yes I do find it funny.
I was correcting an erroneous perception. that trump was more prone to war with Russia than Hillary. it still hasn’t sunk in here that he wasn’t. and it never will. you have become a cult of obliviousness perpetually minimalizing Clinton’s malfeasance.
that’s the problem with hillarions. they don’t allow consideration of facts that contradict their Univision narrative and view anyone contributing that information as somehow “deflecting” from trump, which I take to be the same as being proTrump, otherwise why deflect?.
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@Linda.
So I’m not credible to you? Oh well.
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Gun sales amongst Blacks has quadrupled since Trump’s election.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gun-sales-to-blacks-and-minorities-quadruple-after-trump-win/ar-AAkFPMZ
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@Nomad
That is all great but that is not my contention, so not only are you projecting but creating a wide range of straw man arguments that only you are arguing.
“I discussed her when she was topic of blog posts along with everybody else.. And then after the election I was responding to people who kept saying that my critique was not valid.”—Do you remember saying this? What I posted showed that you discuses her at a point when no one had brought her up. You basically were just throwing her into a discussion about trump. I never said you were wrong about anything you said about her, but you do lie about your obvious need to bring her up to bypass or excuse what any critique of trump.
” I have never brought her up to excuse or bypass Trump”—Which has just been shown to be a lie.I will discuss the remainder of what you said when I have more time, but you are basically deflecting.
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Origin
I brought up third party option, but it was you who brought up the idea that a Trump vote was a rejection of Clinton. Which I stated was ridiculous as there was third party. In which you attempted the “but they did it to” argument. A fallacy. Should I quote you as a refresher?
I wasn’t using it to imply anything. I simply made an observation of how ridiculous that argument was.
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@Nomad
How it must hurt to know I am not a hillarion. But then again I see how your type likes to make anyone who disagreesaid with you one. Even if that disagreeable is only calling out you hypocrisy.
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Sorry for multiple post abagond.
@Nomad
“was correcting an erroneous perception.”—quote where I made any perception about trump and apologize or have some seats when you can’t find it. I have not made one opinion of the man or Clinton.
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This is a good decision. I can only imagine how difficult if was for you and many others in the past weeks.
I didn’t have much time to comment but I do visit your blog from time to time and in many ways, it is my first source on all things American (things going on in the US).
My heart goes to you an all others here who are affected by the presidential elections.
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@Sharina
“I brought up third party option, but it was you who brought up the idea that a Trump vote was a rejection of Clinton. Which I stated was ridiculous as there was third party. In which you attempted the “but they did it to” argument. A fallacy. Should I quote you as a refresher? ”
You’re playing dumb (or are you?). If your assertion is that the only way to reject Clinton is to vote for a third party you’re the one looking ridiculous.
Also, I know very well what I said, no need to “refresh me”.
Quoth Origin
Given the closeness of the election results, what I said made far more sense than whatever confused point you’re trying to make.
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The point of that statment, BTW, was that there was still some opportunity for common ground since many people were not happy with the candidates they ultimately voted for. It was meant to be unifying and hopeful so it’s interesting that it was picked out as someone’s cause célèbre.
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Whoever is hacking Sharina’s account, stop.
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Origin
Oh my the ad hominem parade. I never made the assertion that it was the only way I said it is not as simple. I’m looking ridiculous for pointing out the irrationality in viewing A trump vote as a rejection of Hillary? I guess constructive thinking is a crime. *shrugs*
Closeness of the election results have not much to do with the constant sorry excuse that I hear from people for not voting third party.
No one is hacking my account. Abagond can attest to that. However, I strongly wish to challenge this idea of how a vote for Trump is a real rejection of Hillary when Trump is the just the other side of the same coin.
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@Sharina
“Oh my the ad hominem parade.”
When words like “ridiculous” start being thrown around it raises the temperature a bit. I am not very good at turning the other cheek verbally but I will try as I have always respected your opinion.
“Closeness of the election results have not much to do with the constant sorry excuse that I hear from people for not voting third party. ”
That is a good point but I was talking about the reality not the ideal. Many people voted against a candidate not for one. Therefore they picked the candidate they thought would best beat the one they didn’t want to win. In many of the states that made the difference Trump’s majority was razor thin (IIRC about 10k in Michigan). Clinton was wrecked in electoral college because the Trump campaign’s strategy proved superior. However, the actual votes were very close and there’s potentially a lot of opposition to Trump waiting to happen even among people who voted for him.
“However, I strongly wish to challenge this idea of how a vote for Trump is a real rejection of Hillary when Trump is the just the other side of the same coin.”
Well yes, a vote for Trump is a rejection of Hillary, by definition. Some Hillary voters voted this way too and didn’t even like her. That was my point, that a lot of people share disdain for the two main candidates and there *could* be some common ground that a segment from both sides could get behind. I think we’re actually on the same page in wanting people to wake up and see that.
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shariniar
“Nomad
“was correcting an erroneous perception.”—quote where I made any perception about trump and apologize or have some seats when you can’t find it. I have not made one opinion of the man or Clinton.”
This can go on endlessly. First you misinterpret me and then you misinterpret my response to your misinterpretation. I owe you no apology. I didn’t say it was your perception I was correcting. I can go back and find whose it was but that’s a waste of my time. It was a statement made that was in error and I corrected it. If it offends you that it doesn’t fit your Univision antiTrump narrative that’s your problem.
As I say, you guys don’t tell me what to think or who to bash or when to bash them. If I want to bash the witch two weeks after the election and not bash Trump at all, that’s what I’ll do. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem Case in point:
https://politicalfilm.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/hillary-lecture-copy.png?quality=80&strip=info&w=720
https://politicalfilm.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/15032325_10154741855638459_4186929100194641457_n.jpg?quality=80&strip=info&w=720
https://politicalfilm.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/14938396_1104317416356209_8469495230083135861_n.jpg?quality=80&strip=info&w=720
https://politicalfilm.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/14947703_1277211902343727_3791932917183011550_n.png?quality=80&strip=info&w=720
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@abagond
“2. To pick up on what Sharina said, hate crimes have gone through the roof, Trump fills his cabinet with racists once considered beyond the pale, and yet here you are still on your Hillary bashathon, 16 DAYS AFTER SHE LOST! As if she were still somehow the gravest threat we face. Why is that? Did you vote for Trump? Are you White? Do you live outside the US? Is someone paying you? Are you a one-trick troll? What am I missing?”
I don’t know but you’re missing something. I’ve been as clear as I can. I guess we’ll just remain mysteries to each other.
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@Origin
Thank you. When I threw out the word “ridiculous” it was not towards you but towards the arguments I have seen. I have two white friends that used that argument and I thought it just made no sense at all. They say they wanted a change, but when told about third party candidates the excuse of “they had no chance” comes out. For me change means voting third party and getting away from the two-party system or ideas.
I initially thought this was the year people would wake up. However, the election initially did bring some happiness in that black people were waking up. POC were waking up. Then about a month ago the comatose black people started to be seen frequently.
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@nomad
Wow how you can tap dance around a lie, while ignoring or side tracking the other lies. In what I quoted and linked was a response to the #15 on abagonds post. Which stated:
You didn’t need to bring up Clinton, but you did. There was no need to correct any false perception because it was a hypothetical based on the fact that he was and is lacking in knowledge. No one was talking about who was prone to war.
No one is telling you what to do and because she was not my candidate I am not offended. However, screaming offended is what I see a lot of trump supporters do when called on their very hypocrisy. Though I am not the labeling type. That is another part of your problem. You think calling you out for your BS is telling you what to do. You lied You lied about not always bring up Clinton, you lied about not bringing her up to excuse or bypass trump. So if you can lie with blatant quotes showing this then whatever credibility you once had you don’t have anymore.
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Sharinair.
Oh, yeah. That really bothers me.
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@ Abagond
Been thinking about this situation and I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you. It seems to me that you wanted to discuss your concerns and fears about Trump with like-minded people, and there are those of us who would like to talk about that with you, but instead that discussion has been drowned out by anti-Hillary arguments.
I do support freedom of speech and everyone here has the right to say what they want. But it must be frustrating for you to not be able to have the conversation you want on your own blog when you are feeling so troubled about the future.
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@Nomad
It is not a matter of bothering you or not. It is a matter of pointing out:
A) You are a liar.
B) You are a hypocrite.
C) When this is pointed out to you you throw a fit like a child, making wild assumptions along the way.
It’s all good though, because I’m Switzerland over here.
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Solitaire
Very well said. I was gone for a while and was hoping to return to people wanting to discuss the step forwards. Not throw out Clinton every single time a wrong on Trump is discussed.
If she had won then we can discuss the issue of going to war and other bs possibilities that her appointment would mean for our future. However she did not so people should be discussing the now situation.
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sharinalr
whatever you say. I know you couldn’t possibly be wrong.
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@Nomad
There are things I can be wrong about and will admit, but here. In this exchange with you…no.
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“There are things I can be wrong about”
that admission is a step in the right direction
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@nomad
Not really. If you read it in full context (which you seem to be struggling with lately). “but here. In this exchange with you…no.” Meaning I am not wrong about what I said to you, what I quoted of you, and what you keep displaying of yourself.
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@sharinalr
I understood what you said perfectly. And I know you could not possibly be wrong.
Believe or not, outside of this Univision bubble there are people who don’t think it was such a terrible thing that Clinton lost and that we should tear our hair out over Trump. And they are not all racists or disingenuous liars like myself.
“I just want to say this loud and clear right now. If Vladimir Putin and Russia had anything at all to do with the successful rigging — the actual hacking of the vote tallies — of the elections of this rotten, disgusting country, nothing short of tripping over a big currency war-devalued sack of rubles would make me happier. Nothing. If for once someone hit back at the United States successfully, I as an anti-imperialist must only cheer, and that’s even if it were just in a vindictive, destructive fashion. But if Putin were worried, as many were, that Clinton would go to war with Russia starting in Syria, then Russians AND AMERICANS owe a huge debt of gratitude to this great leader of men. He has not only kicked the empire in the nuts, he has potentially saved his people, and us, from a disastrous conflict. Not to mention the crossfire that would certainly be primarily borne by the tortured citizens of the Middle East.”
Got to get out of your bubble and read the signs
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that, BTW, was another episode of Clinton was leading us to WW III.
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Hi Abagond. I understand your need to take a break. I was considering a media blackout myself. As it is, I can only bring myself to access like-minded sources. Generally I prefer to be more open than that (and therefore better educated), but I can’t take it right now.
Rest up. I like your Trump posts.
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@nomad
See you are doing it again. You are basically creating this elaborate argument when I really only contended two things. None of which you keep bring up, so you don’t understand me perfectly. You understand your straw man perfectly because you are the only one arguing it. You want a drink? I am making margaritas.
I never said any of that was wrong about Clinton, but on with the examples of what I did contend. You seem to be the only one I see doing this. Worse part is you throw out Clinton to excuse your own misconception of what is happening.
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so how many times do I have to agree with you? true, true, all true. too bad i’m incorrigible.
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@nomad
That is your business. Mine was to point out what I saw.
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Good day. 🙂
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same to you
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@linda
“He [resw] said “he wasn’t interest in criticizing Trump”… OK… but Why not???? ”
I don’t know why there’s the constant need for the Hillary fan club to misquote me.
#1 that’s not what you asked me and #2 that was not my response.
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@abagond
“@resw
So what news outlets do you recommend?”
I don’t think in those narrow terms. I sift information from many sources, which is easier to do today than ever and which is why I don’t understand how anyone can limit oneself to a handful of “media outlets” owned by an even smaller number of conglomerates–especially someone like you.
But for you, I’d recommend the Trends Journal, the Keiser Report, Greg Palast (who’s second to nobody in terms of investigating voter roll scrubbing), the Independent (UK), and Professor Black Truth, among others.
I personally read the WSJ and watch Bloomberg every day, as I think they’re among the least biased MSM in the US. However, it still requires a great deal of sifting.
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@abagond
“@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)
I find it ODD that you all can get so upset about HRC’s crimes, imagined and real, and yet not say a WORD about Trump not making his tax return public or his conflicts of interest”
I’ve never imagined anything about your girl Hillary that was not factually true, so your comment doesn’t apply to me.
And the reason you’re in the Hillary fan club is because you’ve written many blog posts and comments to justify why people should vote for Hillary, while I never once even suggested anyone vote for Trump. I didn’t vote for him, while you did admittedly vote for Hillary.
——
“I do support freedom of speech and everyone here has the right to say what they want. But”
Yeah, yeah yeah, I do like white women BUT. Everyone knows that is not the sound of anyone who supports freedom of speech.
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@resw
“I didn’t vote for him, while you did admittedly vote for Hillary.”
LOL! That’s a hoot.
You didn’t vote for Trump because you aren’t an American citizen. You can’t legally vote in a US election.
It is all just an exercise in resident trollery for you because you won’t have to face any of the consequences actual Americans will have to face under the Trump/Pence administration in the coming years. No one in your immediate circle will suffer.
You didn’t sit around a Thanksgiving table yesterday with Black people, gay people and immigrants and witness their fear, anger and “where do we go from here?” concerns——because you don’t live here, you have no skin in the game.
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See what white supremacists do? They come to a blog run by a black person and tell you many black commenters what to do. They think they still own you.
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@Afrofem
“You didn’t vote for Trump because you aren’t an American citizen”
And how do you know I’m not an American citizen, again? Because I once said someone was wrong for considering me an American? Is that your shoddy logic?
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@LOM
I want to deny them, but it is just too fun to engage after a day of drinking and being merry. You should try it.
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@resw
“Because I once said someone was wrong for considering me an American? “
A born and bred American would be hard pressed to make such a public comment. Such a comment shows a lack of understanding of American nationalism and exceptionalism that permeates the lives of most Americans. For better or worse, Americans still prize their citizenship and fight vigorously for inclusion. That has been at the heart of the Black struggle for generations.
Admitting exclusion or not belonging is simply foreign to Americans of all ethnic backgrounds. If you were American you would have an inherent understanding of that part of our national character.
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@ Sharina
“… but it is just too fun to engage after a day of drinking and being merry. You should try it.”
.
According to history, tradition and ceremony, being merry and whatnot is something that ought to come quite easy & natural – to him!
But on the other hand, he’s probably better off having several seats. 😀
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@Afrofem
You do not have to be “born and bred American” to be an American citizen with the right to vote or live in the US. Furthermore, you have no idea where or with whom I dined last night, whether or not I’m black, gay, an immigrant or anything else for that matter.
So your speaking with such authority on something you do not know shows how ignorant both you and abagond (for upvoting your first ignorant comment) are.
So you might want to speak about something you do know, if there is any subject matter.
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@resw
“…you might want to speak about something you do know, if there is any subject matter.”
Ah, if that were the case, you would confine your commentary to sites like The Daily Mail, Heat Street, Charlie Hebdo or a White Supremacist sub-reddit. Isn’t that where foreign Trump supporters hang out when they are not trolling predominantly Black and anti racist online spaces?
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““@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)
I find it ODD that you all can get so upset about HRC’s crimes, imagined and real, and yet not say a WORD about Trump not making his tax return public or his conflicts of interest””
I can only speak for myself. Part of this hillarions brought upon themselves. Somebody said that my assertion that Hillary was leading us to WW III was unfounded. So now you have to endure my posting of references I happen to run across that says she was leading us to WW III. Sorry. You brought this upon yourselves. Stay tuned for the next episode.
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@Afrofem
“Isn’t that where foreign Trump supporters hang out when they are not trolling predominantly Black and anti racist online spaces?”
Clearly that’s your area of expertise. Unlike you, I don’t comment on things I don’t know.
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@resw
You frequently spout off about things you don’t know, like Black history, Black culture and daily life in the States while Black. Lack of “expertise” hasn’t stopped you before.
Why the sudden fit of humility now?
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The white racist phony liberal named lord of mirkwood can’t order blacks around on his own blog, because no one reads it, so he
has to order afrofem and abagond around, who follow his orders.
It’s really no surprise considering Hillary is also a white racist phony liberal who loves ordering around blacks, many of whom gladly follow her orders.
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@Afrofem
“You frequently spout off about things you don’t know, like Black history, Black culture and daily life in the States while Black. Lack of “expertise” hasn’t stopped you before”
No surprise you’re once again you’re speaking with authority on something you do not know. Clearly you can’t teach an old bag new tricks.
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@nomad
“Part of this hillarions brought upon themselves. ”
You are right.
And speaking for myself, abagond has written 3 posts since the election that were specifically about why Trump’s so bad and the fact is I didn’t say a single thing about Hillary’s misdeeds on any of them. Nor did I bring up her name on this thread UNTIL I responded to abagond’s comment ABOUT Hillary that was directed to us.
It seems I’m owed an apology from abagond, but blacks are probably better off getting one from the Clintons before that happens.
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Fan
” If I were to vote, it would never be for anyone like HC. Period! Not ever.”
That was my sentiment too. First of all, because of the blatant and utter betrayal embodied in Obama, I doubt if I would ever vote Democrat again. Bernie was appealing but he didn’t condemn drone murder. That’s a big thing to me. I’m not voting for anybody who backs that, D or R. Beyond that, Clinton disqualified herself from my vote when she killed Gadhafi, and beheaded burgeoning African economic independence. And cackled over his murder like a comic book super villain. I would never vote for Clinton. I could never vote for Clinton. “Period! Not ever.”
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@ resw
Deleted your last comment. It was nothing but a bunch of personal insults.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
PLEASE do not feed the troll. He WANTS you to get angry. That is why he insults you.
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@ Abagond
Can you please stop with the “No one would comment about cackling (my adjective for her, certainly not Abagond’s) Hillary’s loss, 16 days after she lost.” There is nothing objective about that and it simply sounds like something a childish person says who wants to stop oppositional viewpoints or a child of the twitterverse and soundbite generation who wants to sidebar context.
SO WHAT IF ITS BEEN 16 DAYS! SO WHAT!!!!????
You still don’t get it, do you?
– SHE IS A HIGHLY DISLIKED WOMAN!
– THE DRC are a bunch of elitist, corrupt, disconnected fools who ran the wrong candidate.
– People who should be under FBI surveillance are filling cabinet roles in the new administration.
– A vicious little hawk who might have killed us all by going too far with Russia, nearly became President.
For all of the reasons listed above and many,many others, I would certainly expect for people to be talking about it 16 and even 365 days later and more!
You want to know what’s unhinged? Voting for some guy to be president because he was black. Thinking that the guy was gonna help black people because he’s black. That is a joke, but that was you back in 2008. You voted for someone and became enamoured of someone because he was a black candidate for president. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW PATHETIC AND RIDICULOUS THAT IS? (And that goes for anyone else who felt the same as Abagond did and voted on that feeling! GROW UP! AND LEARN HOW TO BE at least A BIT MORE OF A POLTICAL ANIMAL. SHARPEN YOUR ABILITY TO BE SHREWD*, DON’T BE SEDUCED BY THE SURFACE, LOOK UNDER THE DAMN SURFACE!!)
Abagond, you don’t understand politics. If you did, you would have responded with pure mental reflex that:
if one of the major parties is running a candidate, then that candidate has already been vetted as an orthodox member of the political establishment and certainly won’t be going out of his way to help black americans. It’s the most obvious thing in the world, but you couldn’t see it. You couldn’t see that and yet you think now you can see clearly the reasons for Trump coming to power? You can’t see any more clearly now than you could back in 2008.
I’ve read some of Nomad’s posts since Trump’s win and I read some of Origin’s posts too. I’m so glad they said the things that they have said. I don’t see anything “unhinged” about their commentary or the passage of time in relation to their commentary.
Origin’s commentary is usually highly rational, insightful, and well articulated. It was a pleasure to see the careful detail he took to make his points and convey the sentiment of where he was coming from. Also, the spirit of Origin’s comments: that we should “channel whatever fear we have in to the necessary work that needs to be done going forward” was certainly well received by me and I would expect by a number of others-hopefully many, many others who read that particular comment of his.
Nomad has been commenting here for 2 or 3 years now, no? And he was a lurker for quite sometime before he started commenting. Way to insult and alienate sincere commenters by dismissing them as trolls because they express disdain for HRC.
Aside: I assumed Nomad and Origin to be male, if I am mistaken I invite them to correct me.
Abagond, some immense fool (if memory serves, her name was truthbetold or some such) commenter once claimed that a black man had “invented” the internet; as if the internet were a self contained thing like a piston engine or a spinning jenny. I waited to see if you’d correct her or tell her she’s nuts. You of course didn’t do either because as far as you’re concerned, black americans should always get a pass for any crazy, stupid, or demented thing they say, just as long as the crazy, stupid, or demented thing they say is ostensibly supportive of black people. Or, they should get a pass because as you like to say, “there is nothing wrong with black people [i believe you meant or said “black americans” except the historical rough patch they are currently going through.” That kind of deterministic thinking is the kind of thing that could get a whole group of people wiped out. Any Native Americans who thought Manifest Destiny was just a passing fancy are dead. Wait, not dead: MURDERED. Rather, “The future belongs to those who will fight for it.”- Ayn Rand, not those who believe in historical determinism; stop molly coddling the black americans who visit your site Abagond, its not the kind of medicine that they need!
When you turn a blind eye to someone who could certainly be labelled as unhinged for making an utterly absurd and desperate claim, that some lone black person invented the internet (again, you know because the internet is like a simple thing like a coat hanger or a frying pan) but want to put a 16 day moratorium on discourse about an immensely disliked candidate, whose hubris was nausea inducing to behold and the incompetence and bubble-elitism of the organization (the DNC) behind said candidate have handed the Whitehouse to (it seems) right wing, racist barbarians and you think commentary on that candidate and the rotten organization behind her should stop -because 16 days have passed-????!!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
It’s not any of those commenters who needs to get a grip-IT’S YOU!
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@ Linda
You’re an American resident, you absolutely have a stake in and a right to comment about the election. If you’re not yet a citizen, you can change that whenever you want to, right? (It doesn’t stop me, and as you know, I’m not even on “the right side” of the 49th parallel. 🙂 )
—————————————————————————————–
Possible technical glitches: comment may post as SW6, but it’s Legion.
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Wow!
Look, when it’s raining out. Do people say, “it’s raining out” or do they just grab their rain jacket. I think most people know Donald Trump is at least a jerk of one sort or another. (And in fact worse than a jerk if the DOJ charges against him and his father are anything to go by, and I believe that they are.) But Trump is not your usual candidate for President. Because he is not the usual candidate for President he did not play that nauseating fake game about being a paragon of virtue or devout Christian. This is the first American election that I can remember where the useless MSM didn’t ask that nauseating question of the candidates: “Do you believe in God?” It didn’t come up (or not as much) because this was an election with a guy who was obviously from a different kind of cloth than the usual career politicians.
Donald Trump, whatever he is, is not a boyscout. I simply assumed people who aren’t mentioning his tax returns and his super obvious conflicts of interest aren’t tacitly shielding him from criticism, they’re just being expedient because there are meatier matters about the election to discuss. Rich people avail themselves of whatever tax advantages that they can, that is something that should just be known by people, you know: “common knowledge”, as they say. Trying to make it some amazing smoking gun with Trump is to miss so many points. One of which is his base don’t care about that, so long as they get they’re jobs back. Oh wait!, his base are just racists and have no economic interests whatsoever that they attempt to act on.<—-Sarcasm.
Stop thinking it mattered to anyone but an academic ethicist at a university that Trump did this or that in regards to taxes. People like Abagond who think they should have seen more commentary like that on their blog are as clueless as the DNC. This was not an election where you had to be squeaky clean. To be more precise: Clinton was the career politician and the competent technocrat and the champion Valkyrie about to smash the glass ceiling, she had to follow many of the clichés about being a paragon of virtue et cetera. Trump was the crazy, unvarnished populist for middle class white and (though the media are politely and diplomatically not saying it) lower class white Americans. Because he was Steve Martin's "Wild and Crazy guy" come to life, it could come out that he does what all rich people do with they're taxes and it could come out that he said some vulgar things about women, and these things were not necessarily going to be a political coffin for him. If he had been a mainstream candidate like a Dukakis or a Dole or a Mondale et cetera, then the usual nonsense crap about "believing in God" and being chaste etcetera would have applied to him, but that wasn't the case for reasons stated above. And for plenty of other reasons too.
The people who voted for Trump were not seeking to elect a boy scout, this fact should be illuminating, to the interested observer and the interested/concerned citizen, in a number of ways.
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Legion
Quiet as a cap, I don’t normally read comments that long. I read every word of those.
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@abagond
And what a coinkydink that after 5+ long years commenting on your blog, you suddenly started calling me a “troll” when I started telling truths about Hillary?
And I guess it’s also a coinkydink that after 1 year trolling your blog, you started protecting your lord of mirkwood after you’ve bonded over your love for Hillary.
Yet you still expect anyone to believe you actually “hate” her (or aren’t being paid by her)…
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@abagond
Glad you’ve thoroughly established how biased and unfair you are: if you like Hillary it’s okay to insult resw, but it’s not ok for resw to respond in kind because he does not like Hillary.
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And I’m also glad you’ve shown your hypocrisy by both complaining about white women’s (and in this case a white boys’) tears, but rushing to wipe them.
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You’re just not used to dealing with any commenters on his own blog…
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@ resw
I deleted a second comment which was just a restatement of the other one.
I have let you expound freely and AT LENGTH about Hillary Clinton. The comments I deleted have little to do with Hillary herself. They are just a bunch of insults.
You are suppose to comment on what is said, not make personal remarks. If you want to call LOM a troll or a racist, I will allow that, but the same applies to people calling you the same, which is what LOM did.
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The thing is, aside from that Ghaddafi shlt, I didn’t know that much about Clinton when this campaign began. So I thought, you know, I thought that her and Trump were about equally evil. But then all of this WikiLeaks stuff started coming out about her stealing the primary, using agents provocateurs and other dirty tricks, and risking war with Russia for merely political advantage over Trump, my jaw dropped. She was by far the greater evil, as someone here had said. Maybe Fan. Maybe resw. Whoever it was was absolutely right.
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@abagond
“You are suppose to comment on what is said, not make personal remarks.”
Then apply that standard to your racist troll lord of mirkwood, who actually started the personal attacks. But I don’t expect you to since you’re clearly biased.
But it’s ok. I still think it’s cute how the white racist and black guy have suddenly bonded over your mutual love for Hillary. “Stronger together” indeed!
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Can’t find the links right now but some pundits are saying that the deep state dumped her at the last minute and fixed the vote for Trump. Wow, how bad do you have to be to be too corrupt reckless and hawkish for the deep state? Well, actually, they probably don’t like recklessness. That could cause unnecessary problems for them.
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@abagond
“Yet you still expect anyone to believe you actually “hate” her (or aren’t being paid by her)…”
That does seem odd. I hate Clinton. But if, for the sake of argument, I had voted for her as the lesser of two evils, right after the election was over, whichever way it went, I would have went right back to bashing her again. And if she lost, I’d be blaming her for that loss. Especially after I had sullied myself by voting for her. I’d be calling her all kinds of dirty names. If I actually hated her.
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@ Legion
You are getting sucked in by the Trump Kool-Aid. I know you are not going to believe me, but maybe you will believe Chomsky. This is him yesterday on Al Jazeera:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB54XxbgI0E)
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@nomad
Judging based on blog traffic statistics, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually the latter (being paid by Hillary to ask his readers to vote for her). It would explain how you can both hate his Hillary and also get upset when people tell the truth about his Hillary.
They’d normally pay someone like lord of mirkwood since Trump and Hillary were both targeting the white racists this election, but his blog only has 1 or 2 readers a week, if any, and no commenters.
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Legion
What purpose does it serve for black people to focus on Hillary at this point? Black people need to stop procrastinating and whining( both supporter and ant-Hillary) and start making plans. This single focus is not helping them. Trump appointed not 1 but 2 white nationalist in top positions. What are black peopen doing?
I know what other groups are doing and it ain’t sitting on their behind screaming about Hillary.
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@sharinalr
“What purpose does it serve for black people to focus on Hillary at this point?”
For starters, so we can repeal the law she lobbied for that has resulted in black over-incarceration.
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@sharinalr
“What purpose does it serve for black people to focus on Hillary at this point?”
Reminds me of Hillary “What difference at this point does it make?!?!
“For starters, so we can repeal the law she lobbied for that has resulted in black over-incarceration.”
Ya, and you get abetter understanding of the nature of racism and corruption, which will serve you well in the future and make you vigilant against snakes in disguise.
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resw
Most of these conversations ain’t even accomplishing that.
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@Nomad
Talk is cheap. So talking about her is seeing no purpose when that is all you got going if you can equate a call to action as that bs Hillary said then you are part of the problem.
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Correction*
So talking about her is serving no purpose when that is all you got going. If you can equate a call to action as that bs Hillary said then you are part of the problem.
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@sharinalr
“Most of these conversations ain’t even accomplishing that.”
Well speaking for myself, I’ve made it clear from the beginning that I thought Hillary was bad because of what she’s actually done to black people, and her staunch advocacy of this racist law has always been my primary concern.
And my other comments about her since the election were to demonstrate two other valuable lessons blacks can still learn from her: it was a huge mistake to back her and not Bernie and that blacks should never support a Clinton again, including Chelsea when she inevitably runs for something.
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Sharinair
You’re stuck on stupid.
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@sharinalr
And don’t forget who started this Hillary thing on this thread (at least as far as I’m concerned): abagond himself:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/programming-note-30/#comment-359061 (of course he might dishonestly delete it like he’s done when he’s been caught being hypocritical).
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@resw
That is fair enough and I thought your comments about her were balanced and not obsessed based on the ones I read, but the issue now for black people is moving forward. How are we to do that if we are stuck on single minded issues.
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@Nomad
Thank you again for proving my point so beautiful. Call blacks to act and people like you think it is stupid. Ask what plans black have and you equate it to a bs quote from hillary.
Again people like you are part of the problem because you see no issues with black stuck on the same things with no progression.
You have no logical thought or argument which is why all you got is an ad hominem when you are challenged. Have a seat at the kiddie table.
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@resw
Abagond actually did not mention Hillary first on this thread. Someone brought it up prior. What you linked is just showing were he was mentioning you guys as the anti-trump club and mentions HRC there. However on other threads people like nomad brought it up often and usually to bypass any real discussion or critique of Trump.
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@sharinalr
“but the issue now for black people is moving forward. How are we to do that if we are stuck on single minded issues.”
I agree, and it’s such a shame blacks are still stuck on the Clintons in 2016. I want blacks to get unstuck, but look what happens? The Hillary fan club personally attacks me FIRST on every thread, which abagond allows.
“Abagond actually did not mention Hillary first on this thread”
That’s why I said “as far as I’m concerned”. He should have responded to the commenter who mentioned Hillary and not lump me and others in.
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I see no point in discussing Hillary since she lost the election. I want her to become irrelevant and forgotten in the dustbin of history.
Hillary as a study of racism is redundant and nothing new there. Legions point about Obama seems far more relevant and that dynamic needs to be studied and understood so that POC are aren’t hoodwinked again.
Trump is president elect and that’s where the discussion should be. I agree with Legion that Trump isn’t your typical politician and i don’t think he fits neatly into an idiological box since he has no clear polticsl idiology that he adheres too. So far he has backed down on some of his more fascist rhetoric, (the normalization has begun) but his first cabinet picks show what his presidency will be rooted on.
Nazi’s to the left of me, jokers to the right yet there you are stuck on Hillary for you.
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@resw
“e should have responded to the commenter who mentioned Hillary and not lump me and others in.”—Fair enough. However, speaking from my understanding I don’t think he was talking about this thread alone and as such it did actually apply to nomad.
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@sharinalr
I know, and that’s why I explained to him why his comment didn’t apply to me and suggested he apologise. But at this point, he’s already demonstrated he’s not fair.
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shainair
I’m not even reading your comments anymore. I’ve got the jist. Stupidity.
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@nomad
“But if, for the sake of argument, I had voted for her as the lesser of two evils, right after the election was over, whichever way it went, I would have went right back to bashing her again. ”
I’ve seen forums that were pro-Hillary before the election turn on her after. They rightly blame her for the loss since many didn’t even like her and voted for her to prevent Trump from getting in and appointing Supreme Court justices. From their perspective, she had one job and she failed. The contrast here where abagond, who supposedly hated Clinton, is trying to shield her from criticism by labeling her detractors crazy or unhinged is fascinating.
“Why speak about Hillary Clinton” is the wrong question. “Why NOT speak about Hillary Clinton”, is the better one. Any organic discussion of the election, before it or after it, will mention the major players involved. I’d think that most of my posts follow that pattern. So why repeatedly open the door to discussion about the election then complain when the losing candidate is inevitably mentioned? Had Trump lost, would mentioning him when talking about the election also prove you’re “unhinged”. Trump may have promised to “build a wall” but is a wall of another kind being erected here?
If talk is cheap, it’s cheap regardless of whether you’re talking about Trump or Clinton. And since this is a blog comment section talk is all we do here. “Talk is cheap” is really a polite “shut the F up about THAT topic”; a more mature version of “Na na na na naaaa”, with fingers in ears. However, while talk may cost very little (if you live in a country where you can freely criticize politics and religion without being jailed, whipped, or put to death unlike known terror exporter and Clinton funder Saudi Arabia) it isn’t useless as it’s our only way of sharing ideas. IDEAS are the indirect target of attacks on speech.
The unwelcome idea here is that it was a major strategic error to run Hillary Clinton in order to defeat Trump. Yet it was because she failed, as a matter of fact, and some people had predicted she would. If we want to use politics to our advantage we can’t be in the pocket of one party regardless of what they do. I’m glad the Democracts lost with lower minority support even with Trump as the alternative. Their manipulative tactics were outrageous, a threat to democracy, and they were already entrenched after 8 years of Obama. IMO, it was not in our interest for them to “destroy the Republican Party” by successfully electing, through media collusion and other filthy and disgusting practices, a brazenly corrupt politician after a corrupt nomination process. What would have been next? Where would the line have been drawn?
[By the way, I think everyone should look suspiciously at the ****POST****-election attack on “fake news” as a way to stealthily sanction net censorship with the support of people looking to blame ANYTHING for Clinton’s loss except Clinton and the Democratic Party.]
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@ Michael Jon Barker
“Nazi’s to the left of me, jokers to the right “
Perfect description of Trump’s circle.
@ Sharina, Afrofem, Abagond, MJB, LoM, et al.
May I suggest that those of us who want to talk about survival tactics for Trump’s America simply do so and let the Hillary stuff be off our radar?
We can have this discussion if we focus on it. Let others who want to discuss HRC do so, but don’t respond, don’t engage. Keep our focus on the conversation we wish to have.
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I’ll continue to discuss HRC as often as I deem necessary! As with my other comments all over this site, people can choose whether to respond to them, or not.
I think it’s important to understand why and how a super-criminal who’s been the center of so many CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS and SCANDALS has managed to beat the odds by remaining within the political system with large segments of Amerikans hardly seeing her – and Bill – for the super-criminals they are.
If Amerikans would allow someone this low, wicked and evil to remain within their political system, un-prosecuted, what other unbelievably horrid things will they tolerate??? Her extremely high number of scandals are only about her known crimes. What about the crimes that have fallen through the cracks, the crimes she has gotten away with? The crimes no one yet knows about, the crimes that have yet to be discovered?? Bill and Hill obviously must have enablers and protection in high places to have lasted as long as they have – outside of prison.
Compared to the Clinton Duo, all other criminals, (even Charles Manson, J Edgar Hoover, and chronic life-long pedophiles) look like little choir boys! Trump isn’t even a blip on that radar! Recall my bumble bee vs jumbo jet analogy (that I borrowed from an old Abagond post).
@ Linda – if that’s not enough of a Clinton / Trump side by side comparison for you, then like my other comparisons, they’re unfathomable.
@ Abagond. The last time I checked, not divulging one’s tax return isn’t against the law. But even it it was against The Law, it would still not come remotely close to the level of HC’s malfeasance.
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@nomad
In short “I read your comment made a reply to it declaring I did not read it, but I actually did read it.”
*passes crayons*
Want some cheese to go with that whine?
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@Origin
““Talk is cheap” is really a polite “shut the F up about THAT topic”; a more mature version of “Na na na na naaaa”, with fingers in ears.”—That is a false dilemma. Talk is cheap can also equate to wanting people to come up with solutions. All you are doing is making it okay for black people to hide behind hillary talk without putting in any work or even coming up with a manner to do so. I asked for ideas or thoughts above and all anyone can muster out is a slew of deflections. That tells me right there that there is no intention on coming up with any logical thought on the manner aside from sitting around whining about Hillary.
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Just to elaborate a little on my final point:
Here is a Washington Post article pushing the narrative that those bad Wussians spwead “fake news” and made Hillawy lose the election:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html
So I checked out PropOrNot and among the fake news sites that “echo russian propaganda” are:
http://www.propornot.com/p/the-list.html
Wikileaks
BlackAgendaReport
Clearly, the real propagandists are Washington Post since they are using Russophobia to try to discredit opposing viewpoints. It’s a good thing that they’ve lost so much credibility that their desperate rantings are almost amusing.
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@Sharina
“That is a false dilemma. Talk is cheap can also equate to wanting people to come up with solutions. All you are doing is making it okay for black people to hide behind hillary talk without putting in any work or even coming up with a manner to do so. I asked for ideas or thoughts above and all anyone can muster out is a slew of deflections. That tells me right there that there is no intention on coming up with any logical thought on the manner aside from sitting around whining about Hillary.”
I’m not “whining” about Hillary. There is nothing to whine about. The fact that you see talking about her as whining says more about your mindset than mine.
What I said was not a false dilemma. It’s not a dilemma at all. It’s an obsevation. ONLY some talk is being labelled as “cheap” and produced by “unhinged” persons. I see the desperation to shut down discussion of ONE PARTICULAR ASPECT of the political dynamics that led to the result. The ones acting in such a way are whining. By definition, you guys are COMPLAINING about it. Those of us discussing the recent election, as invited by numerous abagond blog posts, are not complaining about anything.
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@ LoM
I can understand why you feel the second way, but demonizing and stereotyping populations is what the fascists do and what I’m trying to avoid. However, I don’t think that population will be very receptive to liberal politics until Trump fails as their economic savior.
We need to keep what bonds any of us may have with people in that population. For example, I know lower-class working-class whites who scream about Mexicans taking their jobs but have half-black grandchildren who they dearly love and who they would fight tooth. And nail to protect if the worst nightmare scenario came true. I can either cut those people out of my life when they start in on hateful speech, or I can gently remind them of their own loved ones and draw some connections and work to keep love foremost in their heart, not hate.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
For people everywhere this should be a wake up call.
1)Repubs and Dems believe they deserve that position and know that they can present anything and people will still choose them over third party.
2) America is racist. Not some people are racist, but a lot of people are racist and those racist are in high enough positions to make a change.
3) Start with community outreach to start making efforts to support and protect yourselves and others. Stop backing and supporting the large corporation. It will not be an easy ride because you may actually have to fight for your rights.
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@Origin
“I’m not “whining” about Hillary. There is nothing to whine about. The fact that you see talking about her as whining says more about your mindset than mine.”–The old saying is a hit dog will holla. No where in that very statement did I explicitly say you.
“What I said was not a false dilemma. It’s not a dilemma at all.”—It is because you are presenting an either/or to the idea of saying “talk is cheap”. So any one by your logic anyone who brings that up is saying “shut the F up about THAT topic”; a more mature version of “Na na na na naaaa”, with fingers in ears.” when they could be saying more and for a variety of reason.
“ONLY some talk is being labelled as “cheap” and produced by “unhinged” persons. “— I clearly stated talk of Hillary (Hillary supporters and anti-Hillary) was getting black people no where. Should I quote that? or is it unhinged to point out how biases are allowing people to see what they want and conclude what isn’t there?
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Are there things that need to be done? Yes. These things were always necessary. Did those things become more urgent on November 9 or did the awareness of the need for those things rise meteorically. I think it’s more the latter than the former and that’s not a bad thing. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t talk about recent events that have shaped the current reality.
I once had a Jewish teacher that said, “America is a salad bowl not a melting pot”. What she meant was that there was a maintenance of discreteness of groups within the context of being American. She was right. I think embracing the implications of this instead of fighting it is a large part of moving forward.
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@Sharina
” I clearly stated talk of Hillary (Hillary supporters and anti-Hillary) was getting black people no where.”
I am aware that’s your opinion. I don’t agree that HRC should be verboten because she is relevant to any conversation about the election. I’ll just leave it at that to avoid endless back and forth when we’re clearly at an impasse.
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@Legion
A post mortem of the election is fine. Saying why she lost is fine. I expect that and talked about it myself. What I find surreal is this continued bashing of her, conspiracy theories and all, AFTER she lost. What is the point of that? If she is so terrible and just as bad as Trump and Trump is about to become the most powerful man in earth, then why on earth are we still talking about her instead of him? I feel like I am in an episode of “The Twilight Zone”.
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I just read a post I thought was definitely unhinged and it’s not from anyone who thought Hillary had issues. Yikes!
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@ Legion
The main reason he should have released his tax returns is not to jump on him on how little taxes he paid (real estate developers like him pay very little, so it would not tell us much about him) but because it would help make clear his conflicts of interests.
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“I think embracing the implications of this instead of fighting it is a large part of moving forward”
What I meant by this is understanding the importance of community as a base of strength and trying to build it up economically etc.
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@abagond
“The main reason he should have released his tax returns is not to jump on him on how little taxes he paid”
What surprise! So much for that “break from all this Trump stuff”, eh?
I guess when your lord orders you to talk about trump, you do it.
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Most elections the majority of voters emotionally invest in there candidates. This was true this election with some being strong Hillary supporters and strong Trump but smaller on scale then previous elections.
Some like Abagond he became emotionally invested in defeating Trump. His emotional invest wasn’t in support of Hillary. For Fan and Nomad theirs was an emotional investment in defeating Hillary.
For a lot of us their was no emotional investment. I wrote extensively against Trump and agreed largely with the criticisms of Hillary. I even started the “Libertarians Against Trump” FB page in response to the “Libertarians for Trump” FB page.
So the stratagy should be to focus on how to stop Trump’s slide towards facisim. That’s moving forward.
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@abagond
‘I feel like I am in an episode of “The Twilight Zone”.’
This -this blog- is the Twilight Zone. Nowhere else that I’ve been where after election critique of Hillary is considered unhinged.
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Serious question: Are there any nations, especially in the modern era, that have successfully resisted a slide to fascism? If so, what can we learn from them?
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Resw
“I know, and that’s why I explained to him why his comment didn’t apply to me and suggested he apologise. But at this point, he’s already demonstrated he’s not fair.”
He’s not fair ? lmao
At best Abagond acts as a kind of mediator. But it is his blog and therefore his private property dedicated to writing 500 words about whatever he wants. That has nothing to do with being “fair” to people who choose to post within his space.
It get how comments don’t apply to you because your raceless, sexless and nationless. So you hover above it all where you can feel safe. But you expect Abagond to take you seriously.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
One step you can take as a Catholic is to align yourself with a parish or diocese that is not just politically liberal but ready to make bonds with and actively defend the rights of Muslims, Jews, and other religious minorities. Become involved in this type of outreach through your church. Find a parish that is part of the sanctuary movement for undocumented immigrants/refugees and volunteer to participate in that work. Maybe even look into ecumenical Christian organizations that defend religious freedom for all groups.
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“Some like Abagond he became emotionally invested in defeating Trump. His emotional invest wasn’t in support of Hillary. For Fan and Nomad theirs was an emotional investment in defeating Hillary. ”
That’s one way of putting it. I certainly bashed the hell out of her and had fun doing it. But I had no investment one way or the other, emotional or otherwise. Just opposition.
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@ LoM
I would count the 1930s as the modern era.
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@ LoM
Also, I just wanted to note that I didn’t interpret what Sharina wrote to you as necessarily meaning armed violence. There are many other ways to protect, support, and defend.
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@ LoM
Believe me, I understand religious angst from my own personal history. There are secular groups you could become involved with as well. Although if you still strongly identify as Catholic and can find a parish that’s a good fit for you, your Church does need voices from the liberal spectrum to counteract other impulses.
Perhaps this a good time to make a personal sacrifice of your introversion for a greater cause. As an introvert myself, I do not say this lightly. It will be difficult. But now is the time to push yourself to join local groups involved in civil liberties, social justice, and the defense of human rights. When you feel uncomfortable, shy, reticent to walk into the meeting room, lay that on the altar of the greater good. Then roll up your sleeves and get to work.
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@michaeljonbarker’s comment
Here’s another hillary fan club board member one who likes to start stuff with me, but then cries like the other white racists when it ends badly for them. And abagond won’t be far to mop up their tears.
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@MJB
“So the stratagy should be to focus on how to stop Trump’s slide towards facisim.”
The last time I looked, those horses had already left the barn! In case you miss my meaning, Amerika has been ensconced IN fascism (repression) for longer than I care to recall. There’s nowhere to go but down. That’s where the controllers are taking Amerika, and that’s been the trend since Ronald Reagan was in office – if not before. Amerika IS the frog in the vat of slow boiling water – getting cooked until she is totally disabled, dead, with no chance of recovery.
Every oppression inflicted on Black people will eventually be brought against all other groups – without exception! It’s already happening. Now it will become worse.
Let me say this again. Amerika is so far gone that she cannot and will not recover. Whatever old-time values she might have once possessed has been replaced with extraordinary amounts of SELF (individual/group) interest, every man for himself – fu*k everyone else, me, Me, ME, ME, ME – that is running rampant across the nation.
How do I know? I know because when a person with the degree of open and obvious fanatical evil is permitted and accepted as a presidential candidate …. for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
My emotional investment was in reaching the precious few who had ears to hear. The operative word here is ‘was’.
Amerika WILL receive her comeuppance.
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“The last time I looked, those horses had already left the barn! ”
+100. Reasonable people understand that. White racists and their non-white lackeys don’t.
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“Reasonable people understand that”
most people are not reasonable
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“How do I know? I know because when a person with the degree of open and obvious fanatical evil is permitted and accepted as a presidential candidate …. for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.”
and are offended if others don’t get behind such a person.
I condemn the party that brought us such candidates as this and the previous one.
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@LOM
It may help others if you create a list of trump-affiliated things. However, it should not just be trump things but anything big business or corporation. Do small business as much as you can spare. I did this years ago.
I was once like that about guns, but my husband made me realize that I must protect myself. Truthfully you can kill someone with your bare hands if you need to but you will need to protect yourself and your family. Take some self-defense classes. I wish I knew of other ways to protect you and others from a Nazi regime, but I don’t believe peaceful protesting will help. I don’t believe silently sitting and praying will work. I think time has passed for kindly asking. People must prepare for the possibility of getting out of their comfort zone. Part of the reason they are in this situation is because they have been sheep for so long.
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@Solitaire
In a way I did mean armed violence because it may actually come to that if a person needs to defend themselves.
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resw said
“Here’s another hillary fan club board member one who likes to start stuff with me, but then cries like the other white racists when it ends badly for them. And abagond won’t be far to mop up their tears.”
Wut ? lol
Resw reminds me of Westworlds first generation units that were prone to break down and repeat themselves. A shake of the hand would give away their authenticity. Artificial intelligence programmed with canned responses and a story line rooted in fallacious arguments as the king of sophistry.
You need to go back to your bag and zip yourself up.
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@Origin
“I don’t agree that HRC should be verboten because she is relevant to any conversation about the election. “—You are free to disagree, but my point in presenting that was not to say “here is my point or that is not right etc.” my point in presenting that was to counter your idea of “ONLY some talk is being labelled as “cheap” and produced by “unhinged” persons.”
I was the only one that said talk is cheap so it seems you were talking about me without the ability to address me. As such i said all talk is cheap not “Some”.
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Fan what make me think that you do not like Mrs. Clinton?
Remember Forrest Gump’s statement stupid is what stupid does.
Your accusations of Mrs. Clinton are OK since you are unknown and this is a blog; however I bet you would not write a public letter which contained all of the accusations that you make.
Unless some miracle happens Mrs. Clinton is not going to be a part of the political system anymore. She will without a doubt continue her work with the Clinton Foundation and do many wonderful things that you will deny.
You will go to your grave with your distorted views of the contributions of the Clinton’s and you will always find some way to turn some portion of anything they do into a horrible activity.
While the 50 states were responsible for the incarceration of the many Blacks, you discount the damage that drugs did to our young people.
Perhaps you did not have to see (your son) “crawing” on the floor, snorting like a pig because he had overdosed. If you did you would like me want to kill the “son of a bitch” that sold him the drugs.
Incarcerating them did not bother me a bit.
Silly do-gooder’s like you are what make life so confusing when you prefer to allow criminals to go free simple because they are Black and blame someone else for the social problems.
Keep up the good work finding ways of blaming others for the failures of Blacks. Never ever think or say that if some Blacks would put more effort into any activity they would be successful.
Continue to tell them that someone is going to take care of them and they do not have to apply themselves.
Finally, ask yourself why the Black women seem to be moving ahead while many of the Black men are sitting at home.
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@MJB
I have not read all political comments so I am a little hesitant in speaking on this one, but Fan…( fan.. do correct me if I am wrong) comes off to me as “the world is going to hell in a hand basket any so what?” Not sure if I take it as emotionally invested as others.
On another note I am not shocked at the results but I don’t believe in not fighting and moving forward.
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“So the stratagy should be to focus on how to stop Trump’s slide towards fascism.”
You haven’t seen anything yet baby ….
I’m not going to argue that America isn’t in fact infected with soft fascism but there is a scale and we have a ways to go before we get to what the consequences of what a Federally controlled police state would look like.
A federally controlled police force is a direct attack on civil liberties and creates the structure that will institutionalize totalitarianism.
Trump has stated that within the first 100 days of office he would federalize local police departments across the U.S. as a way to “cut the red tape” and get a handle on the fictionalized crime wave that he imagines threatens the well being of all Americans. “Cutting the red tape” is code for doing away with due process and bringing the hammer down on perceived “problematic” communities.
This would also authorize local police to check the immigration status of people who speak English as a second language and if papers were not in order or missing that would lead to detainment and possible deportation. If the plan is to deport 3 million “aliens” or 11 million “aliens” that is the mechanism to do it.
If Trump gets his “Muslim registry” it will be the police who visit masques or question perceived Muslims during traffic stops to see if they are registered in the data base. If they are not they will be arrested, registered and fined.
Federalizing the police also allows them access to the ATF data base to check to see if firearms that they come across are registered with the Federal government. By law all firearms must be registered but there are tens of millions that are not. A non registered gun would confiscated and the owner fined or jailed. This is all done of course for public safety.
It would authorize the police to arrest anybody caught with a controlled substance that was still illegal on the Federal level regardless of whether it had been made legal on the State level. Federalizing the police weakens State rights.
Trump would build alliances with police chiefs across America who if allied with Trump would do his bidding. Expect special funding to go to those police departments that go along with Trump and his agendas.
I’m sure there are more consequences I haven’t thought of but that just one result from one of Trumps proposals. I haven’t even touched on the economic fascism Trump plans make America great again with.
But thank god we survived the nuclear holocaust to experience all this.
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@ Fan
I deleted your comment. It was nothing but insults. If you disagree with someone, instead of spending five paragraphs heaping insults on them, point out why you think they are wrong.
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@ Abagond,
I found Allen Shaws comment quite insulting towards me. IF I was returning the favor are you going to let his insults stand while you delete my comment?
Are you going to fault me for being better at insulting him than he is at insulting me? Given his persistent attacks towards me, I find my replies to him more an accurate assessment of his mental prowess than just a bunch of mere insults. You have witnessed my style of writing for a long time. I don’t start out by insulting people. I don’t throw the first punch! I just give back what is given to me. Normally you delete my comments because of calling someone out of their name. Now that I refer to him as Mr Shaw, you say I’m insulting him and I should tailor my writing style more to your liking. I do exactly that when I’m trying to reason with you with my thoughts re HC. How’s that been working out??
Now you wish to dictate how I respond to an Allen Shaw! Where were these dictates when LOM was grossly disrespecting Taotesan??? Or when George Ryder was running around here with a CANNON mouth still out of control even after he stated he would reign it in??
Or are you just biased against me for your own personal vindictive reasons??
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@ Fan
George Ryder got banned. Those comments by Lord of Mirkwood were deleted, if I remember correctly.
Yes, I do allow some insults, but five paragraphs of calling someone crazy? Come on. If I do not draw the line there, then there is no line. Allen Shaw did call you a “silly do-gooder” but at least he gave reasons for disagreeing with you.
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@ Fan
Deleted another comment, which was pretty much the same thing, just with an intro and then one long paragraph instead of five short ones..
If your views truly are not stupid or silly, then you should be able to defend them instead of just heaping on insults:
If you truly believe a commenter is crazy, then you are better off just ignoring them.
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@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)
I said:
I apologize for saying you all seemed “a bit unhinged”. It was stupid of me to say that. What I said to Legion about it being surreal is a better way of putting it:
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“Silly do-gooder’s like you are what make life so confusing when you prefer to allow criminals to go free simple because they are Black and blame someone else for the social problems.
Keep up the good work finding ways of blaming others for the failures of Blacks. Never ever think or say that if some Blacks would put more effort into any activity they would be successful.
Continue to tell them that someone is going to take care of them and they do not have to apply themselves.
Finally, ask yourself why the Black women seem to be moving ahead while many of the Black men are sitting at home.”
@ Abagond
How the hell am I supposed to intellectually refute CRAZY strawman TALK like this when it makes absolutely no human (or animal) sense whatsoever to me??
This is why I stopped trying to reason with this fool or dummy (pick one!) a long time ago, and began calling him Mr Bobble Potato Head. I even backed away from calling him that, and stopped responding to this nonsensical comments, stopped asking him questions (because he wasn’t giving straight answers unless it supported his agenda).
This _____ is picking any and all sh*t off the ground and slinging it at me, and I’m supposed to argue with him as if his accusations have truth, merit or make sense?? I don’t possess that kind of stupid to argue/debate with his over the top stupidity. He clearly has the advantage in his realm of stupidity!
It’s clear to me that you’re using Shaw to get at me for your own personal (HC vs Trump) reasons. It’s your site – DELETE AWAY!
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@ Abagond
“Your hatred of Hillary is irrational. There are good reasons to hate her, sure, but to keep on about it 16 days after she lost ….”
I believe you are being disingenuous.
Please show me the comment where I said that I “hate” HC. Thank you.
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Another line of defense: run for office and take back the government:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/hopes-for-a-female-president-dashed-women-take-running-for-office-into-their-own-hands/ar-AAkO2DO
“Mia Hernández came to a quiet realization: If she found her country’s direction intolerable, she would have to try to change it.
“She would change it not just by signing petitions, or protesting, or calling her legislators. For the first time, she sketched out a plan to run for elected office….
“For Hernández, the ascent of a man she sees as menacing to her full inclusion in American society as a Latina — and menacing to the safety of her undocumented friends — has changed everything.
“Her focus had not been on electoral politics. She considered herself an activist, concentrating on rent and eviction issues in her home town of San Jose. She used to spurn city council members and state legislators, politicians against whom she had ‘spent so much time fighting.’ But the election convinced her that these offices wield unparalleled influence, and it made clear to her the scope of the power she could exert and the scale of her responsibility….
“It has been Aurea Bolaños Perea’s dream to be a congresswoman virtually since she immigrated to the United States from Mexico about a decade ago. On Wednesday she set a deadline: A graduate student at California State University at Chico, she plans to run for a local position in the San Joaquin Valley or San Diego area in the next four years, before ultimately moving to the federal level.
“She sees her life story as a refutation of Trump’s rhetoric. For immigrants who fear for their safety under his presidency, she said, ‘There needs to be someone in power who will understand. That has to be me.’”
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@ Abagond
“@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)
I said:
“Your hatred of Hillary is irrational. There are good reasons to hate her, sure, but to keep on about it 16 days after she lost seems a bit unhinged.”
I apologize for saying you all seemed “a bit unhinged”. It was stupid of me to say that. What I said to Legion about it being surreal is a better way of putting it:
“A post mortem of the election is fine. Saying why she lost is fine. I expect that and talked about it myself. What I find surreal is this continued bashing of her, conspiracy theories and all, AFTER she lost. What is the point of that? If she is so terrible and just as bad as Trump and Trump is about to become the most powerful man in earth, then why on earth are we still talking about her instead of him? I feel like I am in an episode of “The Twilight Zone”.”
If I’m a non-fan club then that’s a non-apology.
“. What I find surreal is this continued bashing of her, conspiracy theories and all, AFTER she lost. ”
I don’t know what conspiracy theories you keep harping on but that’s neither here nor there. I bash her
Because I effing want to. I told you. I don’t subscribe to Univision.
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And you are in the Twilight Zone.
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speaking of surreal and bashing Clinton…
https://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/30028239773_5390e8492b_b.jpg?quality=80&strip=info&w=720
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And note that this guy and the others I post are bashing Clinton AFTER the election. And they have no qualms. You’re the odd man out.
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Fan!
you said
“How do I know? I know because when a person with the degree of open and obvious fanatical evil is permitted and accepted as a presidential candidate ”
and now you say you don’t hate her? I take you at your word.
but to my mind, hating evil is a good thing. I admire people who hate evil.
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@michaeljonbarker
“Wut ? lol”
What’s funny is how you never know “wut” is going on. The last time you tried to challenge me it ended with you whining after I exposed your complete ignorance about the subject matter. We can go down that road again if you’d like, or you can save yourself the hassle and piss off.
“Resw reminds me of Westworlds first generation units”
michaeljonbarker reminds me of Birth of a Nation first generation units that were dressed in white robes and capirotes.
“that were prone to break down and repeat themselves. ”
Like how michaeljonbarker repeatedly pesters me about my racial identity and location? I guess he needs to know where to deploy the local cross burning unit.
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@abagond
“@ The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)… I apologize for saying you all seemed “a bit unhinged”. It was stupid of me…”
Stupid indeed. But only fauxpologies commence with insults. So you can shove it in the crevice of your choice.
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@Fan…
“It’s clear to me that you’re using Shaw to get at me for your own personal (HC vs Trump) reasons.”
Abagond probably is just abiding by the terms of his agreement with the Hillary campaign.
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@ nomad
“and now you say you don’t hate her? I take you at your word.
but to my mind, hating evil is a good thing. I admire people who hate evil.”
It’s a technical thing, Nomad. It’s like saying one hates evil, but does not hate THE evil doer. Those ARE two different things. Example: Fact – I hate Shaw’s thinking, illogical patterns and stupidity, however – this does not mean that I hate Shaw.
Or, I sometimes hate Abagond’s slipshod reasoning. It does NOT mean that I sometimes HATE Abagond.
Of course I hate evil. I hate the evil that is within me. But I don’t hate myself. I also hate stupidity, slipshod reasoning, illogical thinking – but I don’t need to hate the bearer of these things. No one is perfect. We all come up short somehow in some way(s). That said, it makes no sense to hate anyone. Hating what they do doesn’t always equate to hating them. I confine my hate to things, acts, ideas, etc.. Not individuals or groups of humans.
I don’t recall saying, “I hate HC.” or HRC or Hillary. I usually try to be as specific as I can… especially here where some like to attribute falsehoods and stuff you’ve never said to malign one’s blog identity/character. As in dehumanizing Obomber. (Speaking of Obomber, there’s been a plethora of accusations re him and his family on youtube of late…)
I might “hate” what HC does, but I never stated that I hated her which is why I’m asking Abagond to support his statement – not with innuendo, or implication, but with fact. I think there’s too many misquotes going on around here, although I probably may have said at some point, “I think Shaw is as dumb as a rock!” But that’s not currently under contention…
[No offense to rocks.]
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@Fan
I kinda knew that. But I wanted to make a point about the imperative to hate evil. I think it was cool that you defined Hillary as evil. I called her criminally insane, murderous, insidiously racist, etc. I was alluding to evil. But I knew if I said that Hillarions would call me a crackpot. Better you than me.
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lol. excuse me but I am actually laughing out loud right now. actually i’m just chuckling. over the phrase ‘distinction without a difference”
“I hate Clinton’s deeds, but I don’t hate Clinton.”
“Clinton’s deeds are evil, but (when you separate her from her deeds) she is not.”
lol
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Despite the fact that America voted against the War Witch, Congress still trying to start war with Russia.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/22/us-house-seeks-syria-war-escalation/
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@abagond
“Surreal” is less extreme than “unhinged” but I’m still surprised that you feel that way. I don’t think it’s “surreal” that people are talking about a “historic” election a couple weeks after the result especially when so many blog posts have been written about it. How is anyone going to talk about it without speaking about the major candidates, including HRC? What else can you say about Clinton except that she was a terrible candidate who couldn’t beat Trump especially when there are competing theories that refuse to examine that aspect?
Remember, BEFORE the election some people were saying things like:
or H.A Goodman
Or Michael Moore
Multiple reasons why Clinton could lose were known beforehand and many were her own flaws. They only have to be reiterated afterwards because some people are ignoring them now and merely blaming the racist, sexist, cubist (lol) voters, Comey, Russia, “fake news” and the kitchen sink for her loss. What I find surreal is that she continues to be the media darling and is being protected from criticism even after failing horribly!
This tells me that I should thank the lucky stars she hadn’t won. If she had won, she’d have been untouchable as President with most of the MSM shilling for her and much of the left, especially, lulled into a false celebratory mood by the media narrative that the worst was averted and history was made. We should be vigilant during Trump’s presidency but I know we will be. He’s more accountable than Clinton would have been because he doesn’t have the political forces arrayed behind him. I think it is in our interest to see him as possibly expedient.
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@ Taotesan
It’s good to see that you’re back! 😀
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@ Resw
“Abagond probably is just abiding by the terms of his agreement with the Hillary campaign.”
I think that this presidential election and his disdain for Trump (whom he personally claimed and then defended as an individual who was UNKNOWINGLY racist!) has caused some aspects of his usually sharp mental faculties to begin degrading and “Slippin Into Darkness.” (…War)
Could be he’s drinking the exact same institutionalized-laced with Thorazine soup Shaw is consuming when he’s confined to the Funny Farm.
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LOM
This doesn’t have anything to do with trolls
Resw, Origin and Fan aren’t trolls.. they’ve been commenting here for quite awhile
what you are witnessing is called being “disrespectful to the blog owner”
and hurt feelings… that’s why this discussion has broken down into an “us vs them”
Everyone here is not giving the unvarnished holy, version of the Gospel…we are all just giving our own very biased opinion
but don’t let me interrupt… carry on
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Hey Legion…. nice to see you darling.
Miss your comments, even when they got you being a Judas 🙂
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That’s what Univision is. Insistence on a single perspective. All else is heresy.
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@ LoM
The preference for public speaking versus small meeting is fairly common with certain types of introverts. That’s also how we get introverts who are renowned actors.
There’s nothing wrong with being the quiet person who just sits and listens at the meetings but is always reliable for helping out wherever needed.
I’ve also learned in social situations to look for and identify the other introverts. Most of them are so relieved to have someone approach them and strike up a conversation so they aren’t standing alone like a wallflower.
“It’s natural, flowing conversation with humans that is often less easy.”
Same here, but I discovered that it’s a skill that can be learned and improved on over time. I may never feel totally natural and comfortable, but I’ve learned to do it much better than I used to. I’m the type of introvert who often feels very drained and out of energy after a big social event (especially when I’m mostly among strangers). That hasn’t changed; I still usually feel exhausted afterwards and just want to go somewhere quiet by myself. But I’m better able to function well during the event than I used to be. That took practice and intentional effort.
Another tip: many extroverts love to talk about themselves and their interests, so if you can get one going, you just have to stand there and nod your head and smile a lot.
“On the subject of candidates running for local office to oppose Trump, what would the perfect one look like for you? Someone who devoted a great deal of energy to condemning the Trump regime on a national level? Or someone who focused more on the localized impacts of specific policies? In other words, would this candidate spend more time discussing the situation of the country or of the specific constituency?”
Situation of the country, definitely. Keep it focused on what that candidate can do for the nation (or the local community). Positive, upbeat. Even if there are times when they are condemning Trump, I want to hear them mostly talking about how they will be different than Trump and why that’s important.
“And which issues would you like to see this person prioritize? Immigration? The environment? Policing reform? All of them?”
I have never been a single-issue voter, and I think so many of these issues tie into each other that they are impossible to separate. Our foreign policy affects our domestic situation. Our economic policies affect the environment and vice versa. Institutionalized racism affects pretty much every aspect of American life. And so on. I’m interested in a candidate’s entire platform and their wholistic vision.
“I’m just curious as to what you think the best path would be.”
I’m still trying to figure that out. I would really like to know how Afrofem, Sharina, and other PoC here would answer that question.
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@Linda
“what you are witnessing is called being “disrespectful to the blog owner””
No, what you are witnessing from me is called returning disrespect to the disrespectful blog owner. I never said anything disrespectful to abagond UNTIL he started personally attacking me after I told truths about his Hillary Clinton. And he continues the personal attacks on this thread.
“and hurt feelings…”
I am guilty of hurting feelings here, but only in retaliation.
“that’s why this discussion has broken down into an “us vs them” ”
No, there’s no one standing up for me here. Abagond and the hillary supporters as well as its white racist subcommittee, is the only clique here.
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@ Sharina
Even though I grew up on a farm, I’ve never been comfortable with firearms. My family wasn’t into hunting. We had one longarm that was kept in an out-building and was rarely used (one rabid skunk and a couple mercy killings for badly injured animals).
That is something I should think about. Would you mind sharing more details about your journey and where you are now in regards to firearms?
I think situational awareness is a very imprtant skill to develop. Keep aware of the surroundings and people, know where the exits are, check for hiding places, keep in mind what objects around you could be used to distract or disble an assailant. People don’t always realize what weapons they have right next to them: a chair, a bottle of water, a flashlight, scissors, paperweights, a houseplant, a skillet, a dirty diaper. Anything you can throw or swing.
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Resw
I have no stake in this game and I’m not trying to be mean
There is no clique… there’s a lot of mud slinging back and forth and dimmed perspectives out of anger (to which I am guilty of also)
I’ve stopped myself from saying some real mean and nasty sh’t because I know once said, there’s no pulling it back
at the end of the day, we all have to remember that this is Abagond’s blog
it’s his private blog… it’s not a public forum owned by the media or the government
it’s his blog and he can say what he wants and set the rules
he is one of the few blog owners who don’t outright block people for just having a different opinion…
because I’ve seen blogs that block people for much less, which cuts off the free flow of thoughts and opinions
and that’s what makes this particular blog one of the more interesting one’s to come to
as guest, we should respect that, even in times of heated “battle”
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Come to think of it, we have been throwing the term “evil” around since the beginning. “Lesser evil”. But it’s been a euphemism, drained of it’s actual meaning:
vile iniquitous depraved villainous nefarious vicious malicious malevolent sinister demonic devilish diabolical fiendish monstrous despicable atrocious heinous odious contemptible horrible execrable.
We perceive ourselves to be voting for something that is ‘not so bad, not so bad, not so bad”.
I guess that’s the only way we can vote for is emptying the term “evil” of its meaning.
It masks the awareness that we are voting for something that we religiously believe is less evil, and yet even if that were so it’s still vile iniquitous depraved villainous nefarious vicious malicious malevolent sinister demonic devilish diabolical fiendish monstrous despicable atrocious heinous odious contemptible horrible execrable.
Tsk tsk tsk. What have we, as a nation, become? What have we as black people become, that we are advocates of evil?
So, yes, when we talk of Clinton as representing an evil. Call it “lesser” if you want. We don’t think of her as being evil. She’s not evil, she’s just representing evil policies in a corrupt way. I don’t know. Her policies are evil. Her actions are evil. Even her laugh is evil Maybe we should think of her as being evil.
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@Linda
“I have no stake in this game and I’m not trying to be mean”
that’s a laugh. you started this shlt with tap dancing negroes.
so quit trying to act so above the fray
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Resw @ No, there’s no one standing up for me here. Abagond and the hillary supporters as well as its white racist subcommittee, is the only clique here.
Linda says,
I just supported you when LOM called you a troll… doesn’t that count 🙂
but seriously… your hands are not clean… the “us vs them” has traveled from post to post
As I mentioned to Fan, I saw where many black American posters here said they wanted Bernie Sanders to win and that they did not Hillary.
Many of them agreed with you on your assessment of why Hillary was not a good candidate.
but sides were formed once these Bernie supporters reluctantly agreed to support Hillary because they disliked Trump more… I think they would have supported Humpty-Dumpty if he was the Democratic candidate
What should have been respected was their right to rationalize why they were willing to support Clinton, the same way your right to support Trump should be respected… this is where the breakdown seems to have occurred
to my eyes, you all seemed to be saying the same dam thing about Hillary
but one side liked Trump and the other side disliked Trump
so if anything, you should have been calling them the “Bernie Supporters” or “Anti-Trumpers”
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because you are a tapping dancing, Judas negro… Nomad
own your sh’t
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That is me.
I am a stutterer since childhood (which after decades of therapy is under control most of the time). But public speaking forces me to make some preparation and to speak deliberately with pauses, so I find it much easier to speak in front of a 100 people or on a stage (even in other languages that I do not know as well) rather than 1-1 interviews or at small group social gatherings, which exhaust me very quickly. Also, the pressure sometimes causes me to start stuttering, something that does not happen so much in public speaking, which is a lot less exhausting.
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@Linda
“it’s his blog and he can say what he wants and set the rules”
We completely agree. And abagond surely makes exceptions to his written rules and grants special privileges based on his biases, and selectively deletes comments (including his own) for any reason, including just to save face.
“he is one of the few blog owners who don’t outright block people for just having a different opinion… ”
There are many blog owners who don’t outright block people on that basis. I’m only impressed by the blog owners who don’t get so emotional when their commenters have different opinions and respect them regardless.
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Nomad, I don’t know you and you dam sure don’t know me
I’m attempting to leave you alone but it’s seems like you want to come and play
I’m always here for fun!
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“I’m just curious as to what you think the best path would be.”
.
That path which leads to you to being silent and having several seats!
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Wow, I have been following this blog for over 5 years and did not know there was a Hillary fan club. This blog has been bashing Hillary for a long time
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/why-i-hate-hillary-clinton/)
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I just call em like I see em. You can take it any way you want. The fact is you started this on this thread. Anybody can see that for themselves. I don’t give a damn if you get mad.
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I’m not mad amigo… you’re not special. I’m just letting you know what’s up.
I also like to call it, like I see it… that’s why I dedicated that dance to you
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@Linda
“I just supported you when LOM called you a troll… doesn’t that count”
Thank you for telling the truth, but as you know that doesn’t equate to being clique.
“but seriously… your hands are not clean”
Yes, I continue, but abagond and his Hillary supporters started it. And you see on this page not one but three Hillary supporters started personally attacking me before I ever acknowledged them.
“he same way your right to support Trump should be respected…”
If that were actually true. But I was only telling why Hillary was so bad. And that was enough to turn this personal for her supporters on this blog.
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@Linda
” I’m not mad amigo… ”
I’m surprised. I’ve just pointed out your hypocrisy.
Kudos on your self-discipline.
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@ Nomad
“We don’t think of her as being evil. She’s not evil, she’s just representing evil policies in a corrupt way. I don’t know. Her policies are evil. Her actions are evil. Even her laugh is evil Maybe we should think of her as being evil.”
FWIW, I think her picture should be right next to the definition of the word “evil” in the dictionary. Do I think she’s an evil person?
YES !!! Without a doubt. I know that she’s decidedly evil.
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you can point out whatever you like, Clayton Bigsby
but you need to stick with what you know…
I have no self-discipline once I find something that amuses me.
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@Solitaire
I grew up on a farm around firearms as well. Like you I did not feel comfortable with them, even under those circumstances. I will be honest and say I am not fully comfortable with firearms now. There is an uneasiness I feel in the simple touch, but I have learned to look at them only as serving a purpose of protection and nothing more.
My husband started collecting firearms about 5 years ago. I was so against it to the point that I would not even touch them. To ease me into the idea he would often have talks about them and the safety of them. One day we took a walk in the woods and he asked me if I wanted to fire off a few rounds. Scared yet curious I did. It scared me each time I pulled that trigger. I screamed. Afterwards I made it a habit of touching it and familiarizing myself with it. The more I interacted and the more my husband and church members took the time to educate me on it through gun range and professional training, the more I became comfortable with it. Though comfort was not all that came. I also understood that this could take a life and that it should only serve the purpose of life and death. With that understanding I do not take it to public. For public protection, I have been learning some self-defense techniques and I am considering taking a full class at least once a week.
I agree with you fully people are not aware that simple household things can be weapons. They are great tools to utilize if you are in a situation where you must use something just to get away.
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Resw @ Yes, I continue, but abagond and his Hillary supporters started it.
Linda says,
Resw… that’s part of the problem.. you are going to see it from your perspective and everyone is going to see it from their own
no one likes to think they are wrong.. that’s why it takes balls to admit it
at the end of the day… it’s all opinions.. and opinions are like a’sholes:
we all have one
You and I both have witnessed this blog implode when people can’t see the other side and when they can’t seem to let sh’t go
in order to squash it, we all have to agree to disagree and keep it moving
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@ Jefe
I was not aware he wrote that post. Thanks for posting.
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@ Linda
“to my eyes, you all seemed to be saying the same dam thing about Hillary
but one side liked Trump and the other side disliked Trump”
Then your eyes are seeing wrong.
A reasonable assessment would be: One side “preferred” Trump over HC. Not one side “liked” Trump! Speaking again for myself, I don’t like Trump! I prefer Trump over HC for the ton of reasons already listed.
I think you’re confusing the meaning of words. “Liked” and “preferred” are not interchangeable. They do not have identical meanings.
Everyone has opinions, but facts are facts and words are words. Words are usually more precise than opinions.
BTW, how’s that search you promised me (about FINDING my statement(s) in support of the things that the white nationalist party has been saying for years) coming along??
I have to confess I’m very disappointed in you by the tap dancing fool you posted to offend those you believe are putting on a fabulous show. If you call that keeping your baser instincts in check, clearly you have a ways to go.
I’d expect something like that from LOM, not from you.
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@Linda
stick to what I know…lol
Nazis are big on teling people what to do. not that youre a Nazi but you do have that in common…
what about what can be seen by anyone? can I at least use that?
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@Solitaire, Sharina, LoM & michaeljonbarker
I have followed and read materials from a group in the Boston area called Political Research Associates for years now. Their focus since the 1980s has been to study and follow the organizations and systems of the Right in this country and globally.
Prior to the election, Scot Nakagawa and Tarso Luís Ramos (PRA’s Executive Director) co-authored an article that outlined eight conditions that increase the power and reach of the Right at this moment in US history.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2016/07/14/what-time-is-it-why-we-cant-ignore-the-momentum-of-the-right/
More compelling was their call to action in which Nakagawa and Ramos laid out three primary strategies:
Disrupt – “…the Right by separating right-wing leaders from their bases of support, a task often best accomplished in two ways: 1) by exposing the elitist interests behind right-wing leaders’ all-style-no-substance populism, and 2) by identifying and exploiting internal divisions within right-wing coalitions and organizations.”
Defuse – “…the tensions that the Right both drives and thrives on by defeating the bigotry and fear underlying those tensions. This means doing effective anti-bigotry work, while building coalitions broad enough to include populations that the Right is targeting.”
Compete – “…by going up against the Right and vying directly for the loyalty of those who make up the immediate projected base of their support: white working-class people…Successfully competing will require us to authentically express empathy and compassion to white poor people and to those who fear falling into poverty, and to do so while marrying economic justice to racial and social equity.”
Nakagawa and Ramos conclude by saying:
Reading that article made me realize the amount of internal work I have to do in regard to the White working class. I feel like they dropped the ball over the past generation, politically and economically. I will have to move past my own sense of blame to working with those willing to work for a just America. I suspect these times will force many of us to dig deep and build heretofore “impossible” coalitions. The alternative is dystopia.
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Fan …
weren’t you the one saying she was way worse than Trump early on? while I was thinking they were equally evil?
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@Linda
“you are going to see it from your perspective and everyone is going to see it from their own”
Who starts a personal attack on a particular blog post is not a matter of opinion, but documented history (until abagond selectively deletes it).
And abagond fired the first shots with his snide remark about “Trump non-fan club”, which is obviously counterintuitive in any genuine attempt to “take a break from all this Trump stuff”. I believe it deserved an equal response, whether or not you agree.
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Fan @ I think you’re confusing the meaning of words. “Liked” and “preferred” are not interchangeable. They do not have identical meanings.
Then your eyes are seeing wrong.
Linda says,
no Fan, you just want keep the sh’t rolling.
because what you just said, is subjective.. that’s akin to “tomato, tomatoe”
you’re the one breathing life into something that should be a moot point.
My point: all of you said you disliked Hillary Clinton
but for whatever reason, you seem to leaving that out.
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Nomad @ Nazis are big on teling people what to do. not that youre a Nazi but you do have that in common..
Linda says,
Tap dancing Negros can’t hear anyone else over the sound of their tap shoes
Hope you get a new pair for Christmas, the ones you got on now must be worn out.
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Fan @ I have to confess I’m very disappointed in you by the tap dancing fool you posted to offend those you believe are putting on a fabulous show. If you call that keeping your baser instincts in check, clearly you have a ways to go.
Linda says,
I never said I was “perfect”… I have many faults, still a work in progress just like everyone else
but I didn’t mean to offend you, that is just how I felt after reading all the posts.
I did not mean it to be an attack on “Fan” but I was addressing your and other people’s comments combined.. some of which I found to be distasteful.
I have also called Abagond a “Judas” many times for the distasteful things he wrote about Obama…so, it’s really not personal.
and I definitely will get back to you because I did say it and I will show you why I felt that way (but you wrote a h’ll of lot of comments, it’s not a 1-minute search)
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Resw….we are going to have to agree to disagree
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@Linda.
no you’re nor mad. even though wallowing in the jim crow lowdown dirt and resorting to the refuge of the intellectually bankrupt. ad hominem
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ad who???
Miss me with all that Internet jargon…you wanted honesty, I’m giving to you… you did ask for it
All this shows is you haven’t been on Abagond’s blog long enough…
because then you would have known I’m the one person who doesn’t mind wallowing in the mud with tap dancers .. oink, oink
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I didn’t have to be around long to know that. ad hominem. look it up
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Fan,
you are one of commenters I respect and we see eye-to-eye when it comes to anti-blackness
so if I offended you, I apologize to you.
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@resw @michaeljonbarker
Deleted comments that were just insults.
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@Afrofem
Thanks for that link. I look forward to reading it.
@LOM
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but me and politics do not mix. I am too honest for them. LOL
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@Nomad
“ad hominem. look it up”—Did you look it up when you were engaging in it or is it a convient strategy to make yourself appear more sound than you are?
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@Linda @nomad
Deleting comments of ongoing mud-slinging match.
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@Linda @nomad
Cool it or you are going to have all your comments automatically go to moderation, which I will go through in my own sweet time.
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@resw
No surprise you’re once again you’re speaking with authority on something you do not know.
Authority? Who needs authority when research and observation work so well?
You own words are sufficient for me:
”He patronisingly (and wrongly) assumes I’m American just because we disagree about something.”
”African Americans have their own strong and well-established institutions in the US (more prestigious schools like Howard, Hampton, Spelman and Morehouse, and media outlets like Black Enterprise, Ebony, the Afro-American, etc.,) that should serve as their own “arbiters of truth.” Now, African Americans finally have their own film studio, TV and radio stations, etc.”
That was a good one. It shows how detached from Black life in America you are. The majority of Black Americans know that Black folk are severely lacking in strong institutions. Obama has been starving HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) of cash on the sly since he assumed the presidency. Even the Black church has been severely compromised over the past fifteen years by Bush and Obama’s Faith Based Initiative.
Ebony has been irrelevant for decades, Black Enterprise shills for Wall Street and The Afro American has disappeared into obscurity. Even the once beloved Essence was sold to White people. They promptly appointed a White woman as fashion director.
Those film studios, television and radio stations you mentioned are either anemic subsidiaries of White corporations or stripped down media outfits with no news divisions or independent programming.
So much for Black people having their own “arbiters of truth.”
I don’t need a backend view of your IP address to see where you are coming from. You manage to broadcast your location (outside of the US) with your own words. Like I said earlier, you have no skin in the game.
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Nomad
” https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/22/us-house-seeks-syria-war-escalation/ ”
Nothing says that the Senate will pass this bill or that President Obama will sign it, if they do pass it. I believe it would have to have a veto prove vote to be of any value.
This bill was first proposed in July of 2016.
It will probably die at the end of this term of congress.
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@LoM
I think reaching out to beyond our own circle starts with listening. Find out what other people’s needs are—–how can you (and any group you are attached to) be of service to them?
Repeating Nakagawa and Ramos’ words,
I think party affiliation is not important. Teasing out the needs of others and working with them for change is paramount.
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I just read a post from blogger, Samantha Field, about moving out of comfort zones to build coalitions to oppose the new president-elect and his followers:
She speaks of her fears about the best way to be a White ally:
I would add that in the end the lives White allies may save may be their own. There is no reason to believe that a rightwing fascist regime would stop with Black people, Muslims or immigrants. If they are successful in their actions with frontline targets, they will be emboldened to attack White people who oppose them.
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@Afrofem
Your uneducated guesses about those quotes you’ve spent two days digging up don’t prove any claim you’ve made about me. But you tried.
And I could make equally asinine assumptions about your identity. After all, if I were also a white supremacist imitating a black woman, the name “AFROFEM” would be an obvious choice.
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Afrofem and others
From Samantha Field
“We will say something racist. We will say something homophobic, or transphobic, or biphobic, or sexist. We have to be willing to speak up anyway, but we have to do so while practicing humility and listening.”
All of us could pay attention to the above when we are preparing our blogs.
In the end this is not a struggle of White against the balance of the world, this is a merging of all into one and it is going to be painful to some.
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@ Nomad
“Fan …
weren’t you the one saying she was way worse than Trump early on? while I was thinking they were equally evil?”
Probably. Although I can’t attest to what you might’ve been thinking.
Why do you ask?
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Fan …
just that you were right
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@ Allen Shaw
“In the end this is not a struggle of White against the balance of the world, this is a merging of all into one and it is going to be painful to some.”
That is one way of looking at it. Some have borne the pain longer than others. Now some people who thought they were immune get to share in the pain too.
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I recommend reading Claire Wolfe PDF called “Rats”.
She writes about how to deal with and avoid snitches.
We can expect an increase in State agents infiltrating groups that oppose Trump.
http://rats-nosnitch.com/
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@ Linda
“and I definitely will get back to you because I did say it and I will show you why I felt that way (but you wrote a h’ll of lot of comments, it’s not a 1-minute search)”
Hey, it’s YOUR time to waste as you see fit. 😀
“you are one of commenters I respect and we see eye-to-eye when it comes to anti-blackness
so if I offended you, I apologize to you.”
Thank you. But if you see eye to eye with me …, and respect me, why would you then insult me by saying that you’ve read SOME OF MY VIEWS (or narratives??) that match what the WHITE Nationalist Party has been saying for years — just because I believe HC presents the greatest danger to the USA and the world??
Do you think the same of all Black people in Amerika who would prefer seeing Trump in office… that they are signing or agreeing with the White Nationalist Party’s manifesto??
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@LoM
Would you be referring to the Free State of Jones and other Union hotbeds in the Confederacy? I saw an article on History.com about those resisters.
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/6-unionist-strongholds-in-the-south-during-the-civil-war
❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍
“If you had to sit down with a Trump voter tonight, how do you think you would try to get through to that person?”
One thing to remember is that only 59 percent of eligible voters cast ballots in the past election. The Dems won the popular vote by 1.5 million or more. The votes of an untold number of people were suppressed by Republican disenfranchisement schemes. In addition, among non-voters the majority were either sympathetic to the Democrats or at least anti-Trump.
A lot of people who did not drink the Trump kool aid. They represent a chunk of people who could be organized to resist and create alternatives to the decrepit two party system. In other words, Trump supporters are fifth down the list of people to approach.
❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍❍
Your point about trolls is well taken.
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@michaeljonbarker
Thanks for the link. Pretty interesting.
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@MJB
“I recommend reading Claire Wolfe PDF called “Rats”.
She writes about how to deal with and avoid snitches.
We can expect an increase in State agents infiltrating groups that oppose Trump.”
We can expect a carbon copy of J Edgar Hoover on steroids. More repression, more oppression ala Claire Wolfe’s predictions.
Claire Wolfe is/was a very entertaining writer, but you probably know that.
I learned the hard way not to loan out any of her books as they seemed to have a hard time coming back to me. I used to read her once regular on-line column a long time ago. I’ve since fell out of touch …
Her insights were valuable and her style was very amusing… from anecdotal Hardyville, her fictional abode if I recall.
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@ LoM
And it’s a known Thing, not just you and me. You can find articles by psychologists, etc., who study introversion versus extroversion where they say that feeling of being drained and needing to recharge your batteries is a commonly reported phenomenon among introverts.
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@ Sharina
Thank you for sharing. Your husband sounds rather like mine in regards to guns, except he hasn’t tried to teach me or anything like that.
From earliest childhood on, I have known a number of people who either were killed or lost loved ones in hunting accidents and gun-cleaning accidents. I don’t know if I could ever be truly comfortable with owning one myself.
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@LoM
Speaking of the Democrats lead in popular votes, according to the Democracy Now! site, Trump claims that “illegal” voters cost him the popular vote:
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/11/28/headlines/trump_claims_millions_of_illegal_voters_cost_him_popular_vote
A sore winner?
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Orthodoxy. Every blog community has its orthodoxy of core beliefs and attitudes. And it never fails, the denizens of these blogs try to coerce you to subscribe to the orthodoxy through shaming or demonstrating that majority believe such and such therefore that is the correct belief. They get rather upset if you refuse to conform, which I always do, and finally resort to ad hominem attacks. I noticed that pattern real soon. I started out at an atheist blog where people considered me ‘undeveloped’. Because I was an agnostic they thought of me as being a half-developed atheist. I once participated at a blog where they insisted that there was no left and right, politically speaking. Another where Barack Obama was considered a hero. Fuck all that orthodox shit. I am nomad. I have a mind of my own.
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@Abagond
And wherefore this identification and dem0nization of the “Trump Non-Fan Club “? I don’t even know what that means. Though I like the idea of being likened to such intelligent and independent thinking people (where’s that list? did you delete it?), I don’t think it is intended as a complement. As each of us have said in our own unique ways, I can only speak for myself. Do you mean I am a Trump fan pretending not to be a Trump fan? Believe me, if I were a Trump fan I would have no qualms about telling you that. (Of course if I were in RL I wouldn’t because that would risk bodily injury. As it happens, I don’t have to worry about that because I’m not. Online is different. I say what I damn well please.)
I haven’t heard anyone here say they were for Trump. I heard a couple of people say that they were not for Clinton. You took that to mean they were pro-Trump and proceeded to excoriate them as if they were somehow closet Trump supporters, if I’m taking your meaning of Trump non-fan club. At any rate, it is an offensive label and your blog hit a definite low point when you allowed one commenter to use jim crow imagery to assault other commenters. Sheesh! You don’t allow people to use racially insensitive comments yet you allow an offensive image like that. Directed at other commenters for gosh sakes. The perpetrator might as well have used the N word. She came mighty close to doing just that. This is a low point for your blog. The lowest I’ve seen.
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The blue pill haze here is so laced with overwhelming amounts of dried up bullsh*t. Or the word “respect” has another (newer) definition that I have yet to consider!
We currently exist in a politically-correct Orwellian era where up means down, and cold means hot. So a lot of words no longer mean what they used to mean to the extent that meanings and definitions are fundamentally meaningless.
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@abagond
Your explanation to legion was well thought out and a less emotional one, but at the end of the day it was how you felt. Are you going to change how you felt because everyone yells “you were mean to me”? Some of what you said applied to some of them. Some didn’t.
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@Fan …
You can respect someone and not believe or follow everything they say. For example would you not respect someone enough to tell them things they don’t want to hear? or would you prefer to see them as a blind follower of everything you say?
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Yes, it will give you an “excuse to keep engaging in your conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and overall sabotage of intelligent discussion”. Thanks for the warning.
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@ Sharina
It was how I felt, but it did not advance the discussion. Instead it just poured gasoline on the flames, as did Fan’s blue pill comment and Linda’s tap dancing comment.
By “unhinged” I did not mean they had lost their minds but that their behaviour was irrational. It did not seem to flow from facts and reasons or the present circumstance. Instead it was coming from somewhere else that still has not been properly explained. But calling it “unhinged” hardly helped since they took it too personally.
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@ Sharina,
I don’t know about you but personally, I would find it difficult to believe anyone blowing magnificent sunshine at me while simultaneously communicating on all manner of contemptuous ideas about my position. The operative word is “contempt.”
It’s WORSE than someone smiling a big smile at you while telling you to go screw yourself. Disingenuous at best. Utter disrespect at its worst, imo!
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@LOM
If she did win, then the bashing and concerns would be more reasonable. I would still be calling black people to act then because I don’t think her election would be any better. I honestly feel we will be dealing with casual racism. Causal racism is just as dangerous, if not more so, as blunt racism because most blacks become docile to the casual. They start thinking things are equal while ignoring actual racism.
I don’t disagree with the critique of Clinton. I disagree with the obsession, conspiracy theory, psycho babble that still keeps people stuck on doing nothing to progress the black community or any community for that matter. All the clintion talk is a distraction from what trump is actually doing. “Pay no mind to the man behind the curtain”. We oppress ourselves.
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I agree. Saying “Unhinged” made me cringe because you should never take mental states lightly. Even though I am guilty of doing it in the past, since my career change it is something I do not like to make a joke of. However, when you touched it up it was much better just not better received.
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It just speaks to abagond’s intolerance for opinions different than his and facts about his Hillary he doesn’t like to hear.
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@Sharina
“I don’t disagree with the critique of Clinton. I disagree with the obsession, conspiracy theory, psycho babble that still keeps people stuck on doing nothing to progress the black community or any community for that matter. All the clintion talk is a distraction from what trump is actually doing.”
Well said!
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@LoM
Or worse, Pence and company might grab the executive branch without votes, plunging the US into a theocracy.
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@Fan …
I see what you are saying. I guess I see it as a matter of respect that a person is honest about how they feel rather than straight out lying to me. However, declaring they respect me could be seen as a straight lie too because they could be saying it just to be saying it. I take people at face value and believe they say what they mean, but you make a good point.
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@ Sharina
The word “unhinged” made you cringe??
Your words, “obsession, conspiracy theory, psycho babble” makes me shudder! I wouldn’t expect anything good to ever come to me from any person willing to describe me in such fashion. These are things one says to an enemy.
I have repeatedly (at least twice!) asked Abagond to share specifically what he means by “conspiracy theories” where HC is concerned. He has yet to respond. I now invite you to respond. While you’re at it, please be more explicit about what you mean by psycho-babble.
I find it interesting and hypocritical that you guys can perceive some splinters in our eyes, but are unable to see the 2 by 4s making a home in your peepers!
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I don’t think you can accurately project how deep Trump supporters are from the popular vote. I think Afrofem is being too optimistic in thinking that Trump supporters are in the minority in this country. I think the ethno-nationalism is greater then people realize and Abagond is right in its racist roots. I also think Origin’s insights are correct as well and though he and Abagond disagreed I think both their observations are valid and don’t necessarily contradict each other.
In regards to how we communicate with Trump and Hillary supporters I think the objective is to get them to question their presuppositions without offending them to the point where they shut down absorbing the dialog that you are having with them.
The point is to not necessarily win the argument but to plant ideas that they may initially reject but later come around too if circumstances later allow for an ephinay moment.
Winning the argument seems to be some posters primary purpose as opposed to sharing and critiquing ideas.
If you read Clairs Wolfes “Rats” she discusses how some agent provacatures roles are to disrupt and sow distrust amongst groups. Some posters have that effect in social media because they are too intent on winning the debate they are participating in.
We see that here on this blog as well.
When I talk to Hillary supporters I don’t attack Hillary. Rather I bring up the DNC and their shenanigans and talk about Obama’s strengths and weaknesses.
When I talk to Trump supporters I remind them that Trump isn’t rooted in a specific idiological belief. For him it’s about negotiation and compromise.For him it’s about him needing to be liked and proving everybody else wrong.
He may for example say he is “pro 2nd ammendment” but that doesn’t mean he will protect gun rights or that he is less likely to ban “assault rifles” then Hillary. I was at a gun show Sunday and that was my approach there.
When having conversations with people you also need to have an instinct about how far you can push them out of their comfort zones without alienating them. You want them to consider a different position and see its merits but if you are to confrontational that will make them less likely to consider alternative ideas.
I think it’s possible that we see a rise in the police state that simultaneously occurs with a rise in economic expansion that benifts most Americans in the short term. I suspect Trump will reward the states that supported him with stimulus. That means people in the rust belt states for example might actually see their lives improve where that didn’t happen under Obama. Gro Jo posted a NY times piece further up thread that interviewed Blacks in Milwaukee. If Trump’s stimulus improves the life of that Black barber who do you think that barber is going to vote for come next election cycle ?
People will accept the police state if their economic lives improve because “I have nothing to hide”. Just like the Germans.
Google Trump/spending and you can read articals about Trump’s spending and tax cutting plan.
The best case senerio is that Trump becomes a default Republican president and nothing changes. Then we have a chance of getting him voted out of office.
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Respect does not equal blind agreement. I can respect a strength of person’s convictions and vehemently disagree with that person’s position.
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@michaeljonbarker
I’m aware of the depth and breadth of racism in this country. Only one thing is more important to the ethno-nationalists: their personal finances.
I agree that a lot will hinge on Trump stimulating the economies of depressed areas of the country. It would be a surprising move for a habitual kleptocrat and fraudster, but stranger things have happened.
I think organizing and pursuing a determined resistance is more important than it seems. We only have to look in the history of 20th century America to see the effects of resistance. After the Civil Rights movement, Whites citizens in the South and throughout the country organized what they called “massive resistance” to the newly passed laws. Though there were some cosmetic changes in America, segregation, discrimination and voter suppression were still practiced in slightly different forms.
Now Black citizens and other citizens are back to square one.
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There’s a huge difference between blowing smoke up a person’s butt with flattery (and bs), and genuine respect. Respect that flees at the first hint of trouble or difference was never truly respect. It’s fakery – and there’s a lot of it going on around here.
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@ Fan @ resw @ Origin @ nomad @ gro jo, etc
As I said above, I got to take a break from all this Trump stuff. That includes Hillary Clinton too by extension. After Christmas I will post and comment on it again at length.
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@abagond
I guess this time you actually mean it (until your lord cracks the whip again)?
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@ LoM
“I think you, I, Abagond, and the other intelligent commenters”
Language like this and “the troll club” isn’t helpful. There are some very intelligent commenters involved in the bash-Hillary fest. Personally I don’t agree with much of it and I’m not interested anymore in participating in that discussion, but I wouldn’t disparage their intelligence. I said something similar to Nomad recently about how I often agree with his comments, find then insightful, and learn from them, but we are at odds on this specific topic. I can disagree with him on this without changing my overall opinion of his intelligence.
I proposed upthread that we concentrate on discussing strategies to survive Trump and ignore the rest. Making offhand snide remarks about “troll club” and “us intelligent commenters” is giving attention (not ignoring) and passing judgment.
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@Fan …
“Your words, “obsession, conspiracy theory, psycho babble” makes me shudder!”—I’m not sure why. It was not a description of you in the slightest. For those people who it does apply to (on and off this blog) obsession is not good when they claim to not care about something but makes it a habit of talking about it extensively. Conspiracy theories are not good when you have nothing to back it other than “I think” logic.
“While you’re at it, please be more explicit about what you mean by psycho-babble.”—To use this blog as an example, when a person is writing several posts back to back to back with videos of Hillary having a supposed “seizure” and appears to be possessed etc. That stuff is like psycho babble to me. I wish I could remember the direct post as to show examples, but at that point it was nothing more than an excessive rant that was no longer stating why she was a bad selection or how she lost or would lose, but posts simply going on about things that made no sense.
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@Afrofem
And to me that is honesty and what a true friend is. I never want friends that simply blow smoke up my behind because those are snakes.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Which is why I am shocked you broke down and voted for her.
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@Solitaire
Agreed.
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Intelligent people don’t need to tell people how intelligent they are, but we can clearly see that the white racist does.
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@sharinalr
“Which is why I am shocked you broke down and voted for her.”
It’s called selling out.
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@MJB
“The best case senerio is that Trump becomes a default Republican president and nothing changes. Then we have a chance of getting him voted out of office.”
Potentially, at the rate of Amerika’s downward free fall into a repressive police state, getting rid of Trump in four years COULD IN EFFECT be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. That’s IF any Amerikan is alive enough to jump. Last time I checked, the dead don’t jump!
But that’s just:
silly-do-gooder,
unhinged,
obsessive,
conspiracy theory,
psycho-babble,
dehumanizing,
white nationalism,
tap dancing,
latino/white,
buffoonery,
Clinton talk is a distraction,
stuck on doing nothing to progress the black community,
fascinated by the fanaticism,
TALK of some who “like” and “support” (not prefer) Trump.
Right???
smh in utter shock ….
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“One thing to be said for abandoning the recount attempt and sticking with Trump is that if Clinton turns out as President-Elect after all, it will give the troll club an excuse to keep engaging in their conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and overall sabotage of intelligent discussion.”
What a non-in-touch with reality comment. The main people here I’ve seen sabotage intelligent discussion are Hillarions. This thread is a perfect example; And what the heck conspiracy theories do you guys keep carping about? Please name them. Because I don’t understand what you’re saying. Also, I can see why you might call me a troll, since I haven’t been around that long, but why are you calling these longtime contributors trolls? Because they have opinions contrary to the orthodoxy? Seriously. Let’s identify those conspiracy theories and put this faux argument to rest.
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@Abagond
“their behaviour was irrational.”
you’re not helping your case. it’s the same insult reprased.
“i didn’t mean unhinged, I meant irrational”
truly what I and others are saying is beyond your comprehension.
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@Fan…
This is actually an issue whether one support Clinton or Supports Trump because both are still doing this.
1. Clinton talk is a distraction,
2. stuck on doing nothing to progress the black community,
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LOM
“The right-wing conspiracy theories about Clinton were irrational even during the election cycle (as opposed to rational criticism of her”
Again with these nameless conspiracy theories!
Rational criticism = oh she just made a few harmless mistakes tee hee
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“By “unhinged” I did not mean they had lost their minds but that their behaviour was irrational. It did not seem to flow from facts and reasons or the present circumstance. Instead it was coming from somewhere else that still has not been properly explained. But calling it “unhinged” hardly helped since they took it too personally.”
The repetition of this talking pointing is getting really annoying. I haven’t even posted since 26th and it’s still being uttered. There is nothing irrational about disagreeing with the nonsensical theories presented for why the election turned out the way it did regardless of what you people with your faces deep between Hillary Clinton’s legs want to say.
COME UP FOR AIR!
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Another thing fan before I agree to disagree on the matter.
Nothing I said really was a direct indication of my thoughts or feelings of you. I have just started back commenting regularly and was not aware if you were a supporter or non-supporter of any candidate. Same with origin. However, I was well aware of nomad’s and resw position prior to taking a break.
Most of what I say is directed towards interactions outside of this blog. Of all that I have said in here Resw still has not responded to me as if he was being attacked. I feel this is because he is aware of what he said and did and is aware that what I say is not a direct attack on him. Nomad was the only one I directly called out, so his response back was based on that alone.
You and Origin are the only too who seem to feel as if my critique of certain behaviors is a direct attack of you without me directly saying your name. I’m curious on why it is? I have no shyness or issue with directly saying who I think does what if I feel as such, so why, if you do, feel that I think that of you? Do you feel that my critique of behaviors you may display equals I feel that about you because I feel that about those behaviors?
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Look around the web. Many people are still talking about Hillary. Even the Young Turks are still talking about Hillary and Sanders too. Are they unhinged or irrational? This is epic proportion corruption. Epic proportion failure. People are going to be talking about this for years to come. Hillary is going to become a kind of female icon of malevolence, like Lady Macbeth or Marie Antoinette. Let them eat bullets..
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Why did people not just write in Bernie then? I would have if I supported him, though I guess the hate of trump was stronger.
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putting trolls on ignore. fingers in ears lalalalalalal
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I don’t take anything people say on here personally. I just get annoyed by nonsense.
……………………………………
“The grass is red”
“No it’s green”
“Red, red, red, red, red,”
“NO green”
“Why do you keep saying green, so irrational. There are more important things like the redness of the grass”.
……………………………………………
Cut it out. Very dishonest.
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@Origin
“I don’t take anything people say on here personally.”—There are two situations where I said something and your response was as if it was a direct response about you. Should I quote those or should we just be dishonest by saying it never happened?
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“putting trolls on ignore.”
so these two commenters are going to ignore the other commenters, which btw outnumber them.. that’s …er… i’ll get back to you when I find the proper word. probably about the same time these two identify the conspiracy theories they keep referring to.
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You cannot present a narrative then call people who disagree with it names in order to shut them up. If you don’t know why Trump won you don’t have a chance understanding the next four years and he’ll win again when the Dems decide to pimp another Wall Street whore.
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Nevermind. I don’t want to feed into the non-sense.
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@Sharina
“There are two situations where I said something and your response was as if it was a direct response about you. Should I quote those or should we just be dishonest by saying it never happened?”
To me these things are trivial but you seem to love your internet back-and-forths. If you to revisit that long dead issue, the second part of my post was “I just get annoyed by nonsense” which I thought was coming from you at that time.
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@ Sharina
I was in my ‘reflecting/mirroring’ Abagond (I’m so tired … I need a break) mode! lol
I withdraw any and all recent complaints I made to you and Linda.
Nonetheless, I hope I made some things clear, like how Abagond and the Clinton lovers seem as – if not more – ridiculous to me, as I and those who prefer Trump over HC appear to him.
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@Fan …
Thank you for taking the time out to explain your position.
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@Origin
I personally don’t want to, but for such trivial things you took them way more personal than necessary. But as I said…a hit dog will holler.
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@ LoM
“I am putting him and all the trolls on ignore.”
*beats head against wall*
LoM, what did I just say about the word “trolls”????
I’m not even fully ignoring the Hillary bash fest. I’m still reading the comments and thinking about what is being said.
All I was trying to suggest is that:
A) There’s a separate conversation that some of us want to have focusing on Trump
B) That conversation keeps derailing and crashing into the Hillary conversation
C) So let’s focus harder on having our conversation while the other one is going on around us
D) Which does not necessarily entail ignoring that other conversation, just not engaging in a way that derails the one we were hoping to have
E) And which certainly doesn’t entail calling people in the other conversation trolls and implying that they aren’t intelligent
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@Sharina
What did I take personally? I thought you weren’t making sense you squealed “ad hominem” when I said so. If anything you were the one taking things personally. I was just reacting to what I thought was someone presenting a poor argument (then having the nerve to call the better point ridiculous). Now you’ve brought it up again days later long after I’d forgotten about it. Who’s the hit dog who’s hollerin’.
I think it’s best we drop it as water under the bridge!
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The most famous conspiracy theory surrounding Hillary is that she has people who oppose her killed.
I don’t belive she orders people to be killed. I’m generally skeptical of conspiracy theory and don’t buy that one.
In regards to Fan and Nomads commentary on Hillary I personally am burned out on constantly contrasting Clinton with Trump. After 12 months I’ve had enough and it no longer interests me. So I skim what they write and if it seems redundant then I pass. That doesn’t mean I question their character,or that they have poor judgement ect. In fact Nomad cracks me up with stuff like “Let them eat bullets”. and the queen of malefence.
To Origin’s point about understanding the why behind Trump’s election I think the answer won’t be found within the MSM. The pollsters got it wrong and relying on exit pollimg to draw conclusions and other data just allows for biased people within journalism to create a narrative for his success and I wouldn’t trust that.
Afrofem introduced me to third way economics and that world view is held by both establishment Democrats and Republicans as well as the U.S.’s European allies. Brexit came about because of ethno-nationalism but another aspect of that was the rejection of third way economics. I think there is a similarity here with Trump.
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The most famous conspiracy theory surrounding Hillary is that she has people who oppose her killed.
I don’t belive she orders people to be killed. I’m generally skeptical of conspiracy theory and don’t buy that one.
In regards to Fan and Nomads commentary on Hillary I personally am burned out on constantly contrasting Clinton with Trump. After 12 months I’ve had enough and it no longer interests me. So I skim what they write and if it seems redundant then I pass. That doesn’t mean I question their character,or that they have poor judgement ect. In fact Nomad cracks me up with stuff like “Let them eat bullets”. and the queen of malefence.
To Origin’s point about understanding the why behind Trump’s election I think the answer won’t be found within the MSM. The pollsters got it wrong and relying on exit pollimg to draw conclusions and other data just allows for biased people within journalism to create a narrative for his success and I wouldn’t trust that.
Afrofem introduced me to third way economics and that world view is held by both establishment Democrats and Republicans as well as the U.S.’s European allies. Brexit came about because of ethno-nationalism but another aspect of that was the rejection of third way economics. I think there is a similarity here with Trump.
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@Origin
Here is an illustration.
First:
I said “but it was you who brought up the idea that a Trump vote was a rejection of Clinton. Which I stated was ridiculous as there was third party.”
You said “If your assertion is that the only way to reject Clinton is to vote for a third party you’re the one looking ridiculous.”
Word was not a direct attack of you (was speaking of the arguments I have heard) yet you felt compelled to directly attack me.
Second:
I said “I asked for ideas or thoughts above and all anyone can muster out is a slew of deflections. That tells me right there that there is no intention on coming up with any logical thought on the manner aside from sitting around whining about Hillary.
You said “I’m not “whining” about Hillary. There is nothing to whine about. The fact that you see talking about her as whining says more about your mindset than mine.”
Never said you were.
I took nothing you said personally until you started to make it personal. So if you want to act as if you didn’t then ACT.
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“Who’s the hit dog who’s hollerin”—Oh I am, but I am honest enough admit I am doing it.
And this post here is what prompted me to do as such.
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“Does anyone else have insights as to why people who openly – and loudly, and in-your-face-ly – profess Christianity would vote for someone who goes against almost everything in the New Testament?”
Because the “Christian” right is not rooted in Christianity but in their American born white identity.
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@MJB
That’s one. I remember it being suggested but that’s never been the core of the Hillary critique. Not that it’s not plausible, just unproven. The number of convenient deaths in her career past is rather conspicuous though. Is she capable of giving orders for murder? Certainly. But she wouldn’t have to. All that would be necessary is for some powerful criminal character that has a stake in her corruption to identify someone that is a problem to their enterprise. She wouldn’t have to give an order. But okay, let’s eliminate that one as in the realm of conspiracy theory. It was never central to my critique anyway. Stealing the primary and taking bribes. That’s the crux of my criticism. Nothing theoretical about that.
What else you got?
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“He is on his third wife and is a model of arrogance, vanity, materialistic decadence, self-indulgence…shall I go on?”
Add entitled to that list and that describes the majority of Americans.
I dislike it when the press or individuals attack the first lady. Think of all the horrible comments about Michele Obama. Critique the dictator not his wife.
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$633,119.25. That’s the amount needed to pay for a recount of the vote in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. All you HRC fans, quit bellyaching and pay up. https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
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Disgusting display of censorship. We know who the Trumpistas will make head Kapo of the concentration camp, don’t we?
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Ok, I take that crack about head Kapo back.
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@Sharina
I’m not reshashing a dead and buried conversation from days ago.
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Nomad.
I’m sure their are plenty of conspiracy theory created by people like Alex Jones. I don’t follow him.
I don’t know if you would characterize Russian Intelligence being behind the DNC hacks and Wikileaks as conspiracy theory but I was skeptical of Russian involvement their as well.
It’s now being speculated that the Russians hacked into voting machines in close states and helped elelctical Trump.
It’s easier for me to accept that many urban and city voters stayed home and rural voters showed up to vote in mass and that was enough for Trump to gain the electoral college. Racism, xenophobia and hopelessness propelled rural voters to choose a savior.
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What happens if the recount in these states isn’t certified before the electoral college(ec) meets, will Trump be deprived of the ec votes he won? Can he lose the presidency on a technicality?
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MJB
I’m asking about theories talked about here. Nobody here has drawn upon Alex Jones, unless you’re talking about that ‘she’s falling down sick’ theory. I can even go that one as a conspiracy theory, though there is lots of evidence to support it. So that’s two Hillary conspiracy theories that Abagond, LoM and others keep referring to when they object to criticism of Hillary. Actually, I’d call it one and a half because there definitely seems to be some truth to the latter. So is that it? Is that what people are referring to when they object to conspiracy theories about Clinton? One and a half theories. Or are there more?
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Firearms were brought up earlier in the thread so being a firearm owner I will contribute.
Firearms are dangerous and need to new locked up when not in use. If your suffering from depression, alcoholism or have family members who do I wouldn’t get a firearm. The number one cause of suicide in the U.S. are firearms.
If you have never fired a gun before and are nervous I suggest going shooting with some one who has experience. I would train at first with a small caliber gun like a .22 to get use to handling the weapon. 22′ s don’t make a lot of noise or “kick back” and training with them will help overcome a fear of guns.
Gun safety is easily found on the Internet and YouTube.
Most gun shops offer safety and gun training.
Always treat guns like they are loaded. Firearm accidents happen when people think the gun is unloaded . Another rule is to never point the gun at yourself or others when handling the gun. Always point the barrel down range.
Hunting accidents happen when hunters are driving around with loaded guns in their vehicle and one of them goes off injuring or killing somebody. Never drink alcohol and go shooting. Sometimes hunters shoot other hunters because they saw something move in the brush. If you are hunting never take a shot unless you can clearly see what you are shooting. Only take a shot within range and make sure your shot is clean so as to put the animal down quickly to minimize suffering.
Keep guns locked up in your vehicle when transporting. Some states require that guns and ammo are stored seperatly in the car. Never have guns and weed in the same car as that’s a felony. If you get pulled over let the officer know you have a gun in the vehicle, keep still and hopefully you don’t get shot.
Gun shows are a good place to buy guns and discounted ammo. You can also invest in reloading equipment that cuts the cost of ammunition by about 50%.
The U.S. Government may not be able to restrict guns completely in the future but the goverment could restrict ammo sales rendering guns useless without ammo.
Military style “assault” weapons are popular but you can get a Rugar mini 14 that looks like a hunting,/ranch rifle that functions the same way and doesn’t carry the stigma.
The most common calibers in the U.S. from small to large are .22’s, 9mm, 45, .223, 30/30, and 300 Winchester Magnum.
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Here’s a thought. But I’m cool now.
(https://youtu.be/wUzBTIy-ktA)
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@Origin
Then don’t. Simple as that.
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@michaeljonbarker
You sound like a gun owner. Great detail.
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Nomad
I don’t recall any conspiracy theories you put forward. But then I may not have been paying close attention. You did post a lot of YouTube videos, maybe something was in there.
I don’t view what the DNC and Hillary did as a conspiracy. I think that’s typical of politics and poltical parties.
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“The most famous conspiracy theory surrounding Hillary is that she has people who oppose her killed.
I don’t belive she orders people to be killed. I’m generally skeptical of conspiracy theory and don’t buy that one.”
Normal criminals usually get caught and put away. Well, the Black and Brown ones usually/always do! Super elitist criminals inversely seldom get caught. They gather incriminating leverage against the people (fixers) in high places to protect them. They get caught (in scandals, investigations, etc) – so to speak – but they always get away with the crime, avoiding prison. It’s called – “they got off!”
Perhaps HC has a renegade doppelganger doing her subconscious mind’s bidding, taking care of that nasty business of removing dire threats to her freedom. Seriously, a lot of smart upstanding people have put in a lot of time researching who, when, where, how and why. There’s simply way too many formerly living folks that were considered threats to, or in the way of the villainous pair that have mysteriously and/or suspiciously expired. WAY TOO MANY. After a point a rational and awake mind has to dispel the myth of “Oh gee golly, that sure is a whole lot of coincidences!)
The list continues to grow. Even now. Maybe if people paid more attention, there would be less doubt and more belief in what’s happening around them.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like …. it’s a duck. The reason why people like that get away with their crimes is because ordinary people today have become afraid to say that the Emperor is stone cold naked. They would refuse to see the truth even if it was written on their faces; as if acknowledging that truth might cost them something like their life or their freedom. Evil lives on while people stand by and do nothing.
Amerikans are a bunch of skurred cowards. They will go along to get along with just about anything for some imagined idea peace and security/safety.
“He is on his third wife and is a model of arrogance, vanity, materialistic decadence, self-indulgence…shall I go on?”
At least Trump had the gonads to divorce these women and live a comparatively honest existence unlike Bill and Hill who reportedly haven’t slept under the same roof since they lived in the white house. Bill and Hill’s marriage is a sham/scam. How could it be otherwise with Bill always looking for any new opportunity to plant his digit anywhere but in his wife?? They play at this marriage (charade) only for the sake of votes, power and cash. But dupes and fools like our own Mr. Shaw (& William the Conqueror – sorry dude, but ..) and an inordinate amount of Amerikans eat that bs up and come away convinced that they are a pair of wonderfully giving, caring, empathetic people. Wow… Give me a break.
Incredible.
Unbelievable.
Amazing!
Alternate (backward) universe
Bizzaro world!
Twilight Zone
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@gro jo
Taking something back? How unlike you.
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@MJB
Here is a site that details all the conspiracy theories I saw about Clinton. Most of these I saw on other blogs. The body double was one I heard ad nauseam, but that could be true.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/10-favorite-conspiracy-theories-hillary-clinton-article-1.2844807
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MJB
“I don’t view what the DNC and Hillary did as a conspiracy. I think that’s typical of politics and poltical parties.”
I don’t either. It’s proven corruption. I don’t think it’s typical. It’s off the charts corruption.
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@Sharina
Well I fit the profile. White male. Gun ownership is one of the more obvious white privilages this country maintains. Gun control historically has always been directed at non whites. Ronald Regan passed gun control when Governor in California as a means to keep Black males from open carry and gun possession in general. Those laws were used against the Black Panthers.
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“sharinalr
@gro jo
Taking something back? How unlike you.”
Ok. Did you contribute to the recount fund? Can you answer my question regarding Trump losing on a technicality if his ec votes aren’t counted and certified by the time the ec meets?
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Fan
That reminds me that conspiracy theory has come to mean something other than a theory about a conspiracy, Conspiracies are commonplace occurrences. What people mean nowadays by conspiracy theory, thanks to the CIA, is things that are patently untrue. Clearly some things classified as theory are truer than others. Relativity for example is just a theory, but there is ample evidencethat it is true.
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@ Fan
This is why I’m a skeptic. You could take Dick Cheney and list all the people he had contact with that are now dead and build a narrative around that. And their would be gobs of people who hate him that would eat that up.
It’s possible there is a cleaner out their that works with some of the people who have large some of money invested in the Clinton’s clout. But the degrees of separation is great enough that it makes it speculative.
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@ Nomad
“What people mean nowadays by conspiracy theory, thanks to the CIA, is things that are patently untrue. ”
And that anyone who believes in such a theory, their elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top floor, or they’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer, or they wear those unfashionable tin-foil hats, or ….
It must be nice to have such protection that permits people to be so far beyond the grasp of the law, like banks and banksters who are too big to fail, etc, etc …
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@Sharina
“Then don’t. Simple as that.”
I haven’t. You are writing diatrabes about a days-old conversation. However, I am very much entitled to announce my decision not to retread the conversation DESPITE your provocation and will continue to do so as long as I please. Your can eat your passive-aggressive “shut-up”.
So as I said, I will continue to refuse your invitation to go over what you’re chafing over from days ago while accusing ME of taking things personally.
LOL.
[There nothing to fail profanity filter this time]
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@Fan
I’m tellin ya! All you have to do to hide crimes in plain sight is tell people its a conspiracy theory. “Smart” people won’t even investigate. “Yododo. That’s a conspiracy theory. Can’t go there. Let me go back over here to conventional notions.” Conspiracy theory is like an invisible fence for pets.
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“You sound like a gun owner. Great detail.”
.
That’s white privilege talking! Whites can do that (right now) without much need for caution or concern. Blacks on the other hand had better exercise extreme caution where guns are concerned. Even legal ownership or legal concealed carry, or legal free speech, or a legal toy (or wallet, cell phone, comb, fist, hand, shovel, hoe, axe, broom, rake, etc) can get a Black person dead quick at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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@nomad
It’s modern-day heresy. Not to say there aren’t some crazy ideas out there that don’t pass muster. However, “conspiracy theory” is used a a way to label things verboten in order to prevent people from even looking into them. That’s precisely why I’ll look into conspiracy theories even if I don’t believe in the end.
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I have a comment in mod.
I think part of my skeptisim of conspiracy theory come from being raised in a household that belived in conspiracies. My mom and grandma were members of the John Birch Society and their whole schick was modeled around a global conspiracy to make the world communist. Joseph McCarthy was their Saint. “None dare call it conspiracy” was a soft back book they printed in the millions and like religionists who go door to door that little book was their main recruitment tool.
I have rejected my parents religion, politics and by extension their belief in conspiracies. It is hard for me to take these things, even if proven true, too seriously.
People think that if we just get rid of all these evil people the world will auto correct itself.
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@ MJB
You have nothing in mod.
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@ Nomad
“Can’t go there. Let me go back over here to conventional notions.” Conspiracy theory is like an invisible fence for pets.”
.
Ha!
That’s kinda how I feel about “conventional wisdom” … usually a great big fat bunch of untruths! Society is founded & ruled by conventional wisdom.
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“You could take Dick Cheney and list all the people he had contact with that are now dead and build a narrative around that.”
.
You should know that if a substantial narrative existed around Cheney, there would in fact be one re “Mr. I shot my friend in the face at point blank range with a shotgun, accidentally!”
The scope of the controversy that exists around the dynamic duo of crime is far too great and wide to be ignored. I suspect, and I could be wrong, that your total shut down (rejection) of your parents beliefs has rendered you ill equipped to consider this CT matter concerning the Clintons. I mean no disrespect.
Last thing. Didn’t LBJ sell the public on the Viet Nam war based upon the belief (theory) that the US had to fight in Nam (some teeny tiny country way out there away from Amerika) in order to prevent the spread and threat of communism from overtaking the Amerikan way of life? Sounds familiar???
“People think that if we just get rid of all these evil people the world will auto correct itself.”
Why would it not, if all or most of those evil doers were gone?? lol
What if you woke up from death and found yourself in Heaven?
Would you insist upon going back to your eternal sleep?
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“Why would it not, if all or most of those evil doers were gone?? lol”
Because the problem is institutional and structural and greater then the sum of individuals.
If a virus killed all white people on the planet white supremacy would chug along for years. The vacuum would immediately be filled by people willing to maintain a supremacy system in exchange for power.
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mjb
“If a virus killed all white people on the planet white supremacy would chug along for years. The vacuum would immediately be filled by people willing to maintain a supremacy system in exchange for power.”
that may be true now that the virus of racism has been implanted in the mind of man. the white man’s virus would continue to spread without him no doubt. you only have to look at all the white minds in black bodies around us to deduce that, nevertheless I don’t know if racism would have ever been invented in the absence of white people. maybe it would. but id never say that’s a fact. there was a time when it apparently didn’t exist. when black people dominated the civilized world. before the invasion from the north.
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Fan
“Ha!
That’s kinda how I feel about “conventional wisdom” … usually a great big fat bunch of untruths! Society is founded & ruled by conventional wisdom.”
how about this.
Conspiracy theory is an invisible fence around conventional wisdom. To keep pets from getting out.
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@ MJB
“I have rejected my parents religion, politics and by extension their belief in conspiracies. It is hard for me to take these things, even if proven true, too seriously.”
.
One more time: Wash-Rinse-Repeat ….
People have conducted thorough investigations, gathered/given sworn testimonies, written articles, pieces, books, done studies, made movies/documentaries, collected anecdotal/empirical evidence, examined the Clintons’ repeat and distinctive behaviors – their typical responses to scandals/investigations/contoversies AND MORE. As Fox Mulder says, “Scully, the truth is out there!” or whatever he utters. But like you even admit, even if these things ARE true YOU still AIN’T biting. I guess that makes you a true Blue Pill club member. Prior to this election, I wouldn’t have pegged you as such.
“People think that if we just get rid of all these evil people the world will auto correct itself.”
“If a virus killed all white people on the planet white supremacy would chug along for years. The vacuum would immediately be filled by people willing to maintain a supremacy system in exchange for power.”
Are you, a WHITE person, really suggesting that ALL the white people on the planet are evil?? 😉
Anyway, if this same or similar virus decimated all the evil people (imagine a Steven King story line – if that helps) there would be no desire for (malevolent) power, no desire to (malevolently) rule over others.
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@ Nomad
“Conspiracy theory is an invisible fence around conventional wisdom. To keep pets from getting out.”
.
Hmmmm… Animal Farm comes to mind for some reason. lol
Yup, the sheep and dogs need to be corralled AND controlled by the pigs…
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@Gro jo
No, I did not contribute to the recount fund. Even though I support Stein going about it, I am not really sure what he would mean for her to do it.
“Can you answer my question regarding Trump losing on a technicality if his ec votes aren’t counted and certified by the time the ec meets?”—No, I can not.
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@Origin
“I haven’t.”—Wrong. You have and did in this comment here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/programming-note-30/#comment-359598
You then decided that you did not want to rehash it because my quotes basically contradicted what you said or later wanted to claim. At any rate none of them were to establish some type of rehash of the situations. It was simply to establish that you take things personally and then hightail it once it is thrown back.
As I said before “then don’t. Simple as that.” However, making big statements about your rights isn’t making a bit of difference for me because you can do what you do. Yet it appears you rather do the opposite of what you do while declaring the falsehood of what you want to appear to be doing.
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~Shudder~
Pence is the guy to be worried about. He’s going to push Trump to war. And he’s a heartbeat from the presidency himself. Much more dangerous than Trump.
Mike Pence, Oberst Martin Hessler.
Pence has said: “The Russians invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea…
“When Donald Trump’s president, we are not going to have the kind of posture in the world that has Russia invading Crimea and Ukraine …”
Pence has said that Trump would be prepared to carry out air strikes against Assad.
Pence said: “The US needs to be prepared to strike military targets of the Assad regime…”
Mike Pence on Russia and Syria – Oct 2016
Mike Pence, Trump’s running mate.
Mike Pence is a long-time supporter of immigration.
Trump and Pence make for Republican odd couple – Financial Times
“Pence has spent his political career decrying anti-immigrant rhetoric and pushing to make comprehensive immigration reform politically workable,”
Pence’s Love Affair With Immigration Reform .
Mike Pence.
Mike Pence, in Congress, has strongly supported free trade deals that Trump opposes.
Trump and Pence make for Republican odd couple – Financial Times
Mike Pence voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Mike Pence voted YES on $78B for war in Iraq and Afghanistan. (Apr 2003)
Mike Pence voted YES on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade. (Jul 2005)
Mike Pence voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act’s roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011)
Mike Pence supports solidarity with Israel in its fight against terrorism. (Apr 2002)
Mike Pence is a pro-Israel, homophobe who supported the Iraq War.
“Pence is a strong supporter of torture, of rendition programs, of drone killings and doing whatever Israel says without question..
“Pence is a friggin’ Nazi.”
https://i1.wp.com/3.bp.blogspot.com/-ubgLB5A5cVA/V_qOwAM9xmI/AAAAAAAAYEQ/gpM1RQHwzewunufo5j7xjByFOU77ONF9wCLcB/s200/%2521%2Bshaw.jpg?quality=80&ssl=1&strip=info&w=720
https://i0.wp.com/3.bp.blogspot.com/-4zqwNsDNeMk/V4pqFrJXeZI/AAAAAAAAV-4/htP2acM30L8tcx7hv8s533nYbnziHLd3wCLcB/s320/00%2BPence.jpg?quality=80&ssl=1&strip=info&w=720
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2016/11/google-sarin-gas-trump-vallely-aquino.html
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@ nomad
No. You are not going to put pictures of dead children on my blog. I made an exception for Emmett Till and only after some thought, but that is as far as I will go.
Comment deleted.
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@Abagond
don’t worry. wont happen again
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@Abagond
funny how some pics show up as urls and others show up as images. anyway. I get the picture
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like on fb when ppl post bombing victims, dead syrian children, cancer patients, etc, it is trifling and annoying, like that’s helping their corpse or family or anything else, oooh look see? see?
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@Abagond
Your insistence on making Clinton a ‘forbidden’ topic and all of the fallout from it is bizarre.
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yall need to see
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@ Nomad
Huh? Where did I declare her off topic? I only said that I, Abagond, was not going to talk about her (or Trump) till after Christmas, in part to gain some perspective.
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@ v8driver
I think it is disrespectful and kind of ghoulish. What if it were your mother?
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all over. “please don’t talk about Clinton AFTER the election.
‘forbidden’ may not be the right word. that’s why I put it in quotes. maybe you can think of a better one.
the ‘forbidden’ is exemplified in your ‘persecution’ (again the right word eludes me) of those who speak ill of Clinton.
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“disrespectful”
good word
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“sharinalr
@Gro jo
No, I did not contribute to the recount fund. Even though I support Stein going about it, I am not really sure what he would mean for her to do it.
“Can you answer my question regarding Trump losing on a technicality if his ec votes aren’t counted and certified by the time the ec meets?”—No, I can not.”
In other words, you don’t care. Good to know.
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@ Nomad
Anyone is free to say whatever they want about Hillary Clinton so long as they do it in a somewhat civil manner and so long as I have not declared it off topic on the given thread – within the bounds of the comment policy, in other words. But that does NOT mean I have to keep my mouth shut about it. I too am allowed to express my opinion. This is not a one-way street.
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@ Nomad
The only thing I have stopped anyone from saying about Hillary Clinton is calling her a “bitch”, a word I moderate as a slur. That’s it.
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@abagond yes that’s why i take pictures of everything under the sun except like car accidents and such, it’s disrespect, what if it was you
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@ MJB
“Because the problem is institutional and structural and greater then the sum of individuals. ”
.
No, the root of the problem lies within the defective hearts of men (and women).
Some groups within mankind seem to have this problem more than others which they take to a lower, instinctively baser, level.
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“But that does NOT mean I have to keep my mouth shut about it. ”
+1. That’s right, defend your Hillary!
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@abagond
“@ Nomad
The only thing I have stopped anyone from saying about Hillary Clinton is calling her a “bitch”, a word I moderate as a slur. That’s it. ”
Quite understandable. I’m talking about the disrespectfulness you’ve shown to commenters who express criticism of Clinton. The Trump non-fan club and the tolerance of jim crow imagery in the process. Respect is a two way street.
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You don’t insult me and expect me not to respond.
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“The only thing I have stopped anyone from saying about Hillary Clinton is calling her a “bitch”, a word I moderate as a slur. That’s it.”
He also moderates N*zi per his comment policy, but he allows his lord to use it when referring to people who don’t support his Hillary.
How’s that for fair “moderation”?
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@resw
I moderate “Nazi” not as a slur but as a word that White racist trolls love to use.
Plenty of your comment have made it through moderation too.
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@abagond
I know, making it up as you go. In the Comment Policy they all appear under “moderated words” with no distinction.
And thanks for agreeing with me that your lord of mirkwood is a “white racist troll” since he obviously “loves” using that word (judging from the number of times he’s used it, including on this thread).
But since the white racist troll is a Hillary fan club member and kisses your derriere, you’ve granted him yet another exception.
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@ resw
Fine. Going forward I will automatically delete every moderated comment. Just to be “fair”. And to make the comment policy more understandable to people like you who apparently speak English as a second language.
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I know, abagond. There, there now. I’d be frustrated if someone kept pointing out my hypocrisy on my own blog too…
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Americans don’t want to see pictures of people they’ve killed in faraway lands. It makes them uncomfortable. They certainly don’t want those piles of dead bodies in juxtaposition to the president they worship and voted for. They might feel some pangs of guilt and responsibility. We don’t like that very much. We’d much rather sit behind a console and press buttons to kill people we cannot see, thousands of miles away. Too far to hear them scream, because if we saw them or heard them scream that would be…annoying.
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@nomad sort of like posting on a blog?
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“Americans don’t want to see pictures of people they’ve killed in faraway lands. It makes them uncomfortable. They certainly don’t want those piles of dead bodies in juxtaposition to the president they worship and voted for. ”
.
I believe that’s exactly why laws were passed during the Iraqi occupation forbidding the photographing of dead Amerikan service men & womens’ caskets gathered at airports recently returned from oversea.
The powers knew that these photos would eventually work against their war effort if they permitted Amerika to witness up close and personal the horrors and ravages of war.
I don’t think web sites and the media are even permitted to show pics taken of servicemen while alive, but who are now dead – killed in action.
Where’s Cindy Sheehan?? Amerika needs you, or someone similar.
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afflict the comfortable. that’s my motto
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@Sharina
You were making a fool of yourself by totally misinterpreting my point and being arrogant about it; the point being the FACT that some people voted for Clinton or Trump to prevent the other from winning not whether they should have or not. Your interjection that they could have all voted third party had no bearing on what I was saying at all. I should have responded with a giant “SO?”
Your totally irrelevant comment and the arrogance accompanying it made you seem clueless and lacking in comprehension and this was amplified by the fact that I was unable to lead you gently to the actual point despite trying (IIRC you claimed there was some non-existent dilemma). When you siad that a simple point which you didn’t even understand was “ridiculous” I had enough and called you out. Then after you squealed ad hominem, I was deferential towards you to end the conversation and that was that. Now my reward for not twisitng the knife then is your continual begging for it days later.
Haven’t read this in years but it just came to mind:
Proverbs 26:4-5
The thing about me is that I always get to the bottom of things and your motivation is obvious to me. Your ostensible reason for going over this is that it is apparently important for you to prove that “I took it personally”. Seemingly, you win a Nobel Prize for demonstrating a “contradiction” when I said I don’t take things personally. Why does this even matter? Who cares? Sharina does. I submit that you’re the one still chafing from days ago and that’s why you’re harping on it and trying to “win” an argument. Classic psychogical projection to claim I’m taking things personally when you’re the one doing it.
I was quite content to end the previous conversation with you because it’s obvious that you’re playing a game to win an argument not trying to understand the other person’s point. You love to claim the other person is making logical “fallacies”, even when they aren’t, so that you can ignore what they’re saying and just keep repeating yourself.
You’re not an individual with whom one can have a productive argument about something important so when the topic is trivial lengthy engagement would be a fool’s errand. I’ll certainly not accuse you of lacking stamina as you will go on forever as other threads have demonstrated. I don’t care to because I don’t have an ulterior motive for arguing something trivial. it’s not important to me whether you feel I take things personally or not. I say I don’t take things personally, you say I do. “SO?”
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@Origin
One minute you claim to not want to rehash and here you are a book rehashing. It’s not a misinterpretation of your point, because my comment was beside whatever point you were making. My original comment was simply saying it is not as simple as you were making. You’re the only one who read more into it than necessary and got all emotional. I never once said you were wrong and on a separate occasion said I was looking to discuss people who I knew who made the argument. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what actually happened instead of the imaginary idea of what you think happened.
“I was unable to lead you gently to the actual point despite trying (IIRC you claimed there was some non-existent dilemma).”—Lead me? So what you basically wanted was for me to be a yes man. Sorry noooo.
“When you siad that a simple point which you didn’t even understand was “ridiculous” I had enough and called you out.”—No, you had enough and stated calling names and the argument was ridiculous.
“Then after you squealed ad hominem”–I mentioned ad hominem because it was shocking that someone who is usually mature and level headed would resort to such childish antics just because I did not see the argument as a viable one. I still see it as a sorry excuse. Now as to this being days later, that is because you made a passive aggressive attempt at attacking me and then wanted to pretend like you didn’t. Stop taking jabs if you are just going to cry foul when it comes back to you.
Trying to win? Win what? Just because I decided to point out the hypcristy does not mean I am trying to win anything. This is not a winning type argument at this point. I made it quite clear at this point I am taking it personally, but only because you drew first blood. Like I said. honesty. 😉
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“I say I don’t take things personally, you say I do. “SO?””—I didn’t just say you did. I showed you do.
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Re: Pence
Trump has already shown signs he is overwhelmed and under qualified. It is likely Pence will be the puppet master here. He will be behind the scenes but will likely have control over many of the discussions trump makes seeing as he is a bit more experienced.
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@nomad i think motorhead said ‘eat the rich’
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Hey v8, this is kind of where I came in.
Remember the Simpson’s episode that was erroneously said to be a prediction of Trump entering the presidency. Turns out it wasn’t a prediction but a premonition highlighting the importance of that moment. Or maybe it was the proverbial predictive programming. They probably had some subliminal message in that scene of him descending the escalator. (What a metaphor!) “You will elect Donald Trump. You will elect Donald Trump.” “I will elect Donald Trump. I will elect Donald Trump”.
http://www.snopes.com/simpsons-trump-prediction/
I tell you, the Simpsons are hooked into something. They have their fingers on the pulse, if they are not Illuminati themselves. The episode that actually did forecast a Trump presidency was actually about a decade ago. And his presidency was only alluded to. Lisa Simpson, the cute little saxophone playing imp, grew up to be president and had to clean up the mess left by the previous president. Donald Trump. That’s all. He was merely referred to in that episode. But that is still pretty prescient. I think that was the first time anyone on TV said the phrase “President Trump”. LOL
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Of course flag burning is not in the Constitution, which might be why Hillary Clinton herself actually tried to outlaw flag burning.
One of the rare instances she actually introduced some substantive legislation, she and Republican Bob Bennett co-introduced the The Flag Protection Act of 2005.
And like the next Congress, there was a Republican majority in both houses but the bill still quickly failed.
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@LOM
I actually wonder if Trump ran because he wants to be president or because he needed to set the environment for people like Pence to take office.
Why do you see flag burning as an issue?
Just a side note: Not aware of what Trump tweeted so you may need to elaborate.
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@resw
“One of the rare instances she actually introduced some substantive legislation, she and Republican Bob Bennett co-introduced the The Flag Protection Act of 2005.”—I’m glad you said rare, because I was going to ask if she ever presented any type of legislation but is that act really considered substantive legislation?
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@Gro Jo
“In other words, you don’t care. Good to know.”–You know me so well. 🙂
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@LOM
I see why that is considered troubling. However, he is really repeating what most Americans think. The burning of the American flag is a sin. Same as they see not standing for the anthem is a sin. I have to wonder if the American people simply do not want a dictatorship.
In my eyes there is no difference between right-wing and left-wing, so I would see it more as creating a dictatorship that would benefit the powerful. A Clinton win would not have really changed that as it seems that America was heading in that direction for sometime. just my thoughts.
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Damn this post is has wind.
One of the many reason I like this blog and keep coming back and reading as well as commenting is ironically in the media world where more and bigger is always better – is the small and managable amount of comments and commentors ,too large and it becomes impossible and meaningless to me ,to small and you are not talking to anyone but yourself.
Its problably why quite a few blog owners(my self included) prefer to comment and read here that bulid up thier ofwn damn blog😜
Anyway this post has been/is another classic- interesting and insightful if contentious exchanges that inform and entertain.
However the comment count is approaching 500, my cutoff point as it dificult to load and to much to read.
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Eyeballs and activity – I was about to throw in a election/trump/media question-issue that if responded to would easily genetate another 100 or more comments to this thread ,instead I will wait or find a less frequented post to raise the issue.
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“Congress shall make no law respecting… ”
Sorry, but it says nothing about burning anything, let alone a flag.
Your Hillary Clinton introduced her anti-flag-burning bill because she was banking on a more anti-liberty Supreme Court to uphold it.
@sharinalr
“I’m glad you said rare…”
For all her yap about “women and children”, you’d think she’d introduce one substantive bill to help either. But when given the chance, she introduced an anti-liberty bill like this one. What a “progressive”.
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@LOM
Well the supreme court agreed with that idea as well. Which is a surprise considering the supreme court is made up of a bunch of crooked individuals.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/politics/flag-burning-constitutional-donald-trump/
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@resw
I don’t follow politics that much so I have to admit to some bias in regards to seeing Clinton as doing anything. I saw her as an inactive party, because it was always as if she had a position but was never actively pushing anything.
However, she is a part of the good ole’ politician club, so I did not expect her to care about women or children rights. Neither will Trump. Politicians have two faces. The one they show you (who you think you elected) and the one they don’t (the real mastermind).
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strangest thing I’ve ever seen. stigmatized for something presumed. a kind of faulty syllogism.
Clinton is against Trump.
Anybody who is against Clinton is for Trump.
You are against Clinton. Therefore you are for Trump.
based on the other false syllogism.
All Trump supporters are racist.
You support Trump.
Therefore you are racist.
(What? You’re black? Doesn’t matter. You’re a racist.)
culminating in the notion that you are an uncle tom if you don’t support Clinton. well if you criticize her.
how bizarre. that should be in the blog policy somewhere. don’t criticize Clinton. oh wait. you can criticize her, just don’t bash her.
yes. yes indeed. this is the twilight zone
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Hillary troll: Trump’s so bad because he said flag burning SHOULD be illegal. We’re headed to the Third Reich. We should’ve voted for Hillary
Common sense: Hillary actually introduced a bill to outlaw flag burning when she was a Senator.
Hillary troll: Scalia, Communist China, Hilter, Stalin blah blah blah
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@sharinalr
“I saw her as an inactive party, because it was always as if she had a position but was never actively pushing anything. ”
She still pushed these causes: locking up “super predators”, outlawing flag burning, NAFTA, and marriage only between a man and a woman….oh yeah, and her signature bill, naming the Tim Russert Highway
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@ Resw
Much of what you mentioned happened when her husband Bill Clinton was in office and before she had any political power yet she seems to be given more responsibility then Bill and those who authored and voted for those acts ect.
Will Michelle Obama be given the same responsibility for her husbands actions as been bestowed upon Hillary particularly if Michelle decides to run for office someday?
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Nomad
What your describing is dichotomous thinking. Abagond disagreed a post on that.
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^^ Correction Abagond did a post on that
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“Much of what you mentioned happened when her husband Bill Clinton was in office ”
Just 2 out of 5.
“Will Michelle Obama be given the same responsibility for her husbands actions as been bestowed upon Hillary particularly if Michelle decides to run for office someday?”
I’ll hold her responsible for the causes for which she advocated as first lady. I don’t recall any of them being locking up black people or NAFTA.
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Glen Ford still talking about Clinton.
“BAR and 12 other leftwing web sites have been put on a hit list publicized by the Washington Post. Fascists of the Democratic kind are responsible. “Had Clinton won the election, she would have begun a campaign of repression against the Left along the same national security lines as the Washington Post article, with that paper probably leading the propaganda charge.””
http://www.blackagendareport.com/fascism_with_democratic_face
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“Had Clinton won the election, she would have begun a campaign of repression against the Left along the same national security lines as the Washington Post article, with that paper probably leading the propaganda charge.”
.
Her campaign of repression would have reached everyone, in time. EVERYONE.
Amerika is in a TERMINAL lose – lose situation. Amerika loses no matter which side wins. The only question that remains is which side loses the fastest (or which side will hurt the most).
Some think it’s Hillary.
Some think it’ll be Trump.
Some think it’s the Easter Bunny!
It’s really that simple, folks.
Anything else comes down to just noise.
Anyone still imagining that the USA government is of, for and (directed) by the people (with votes/elections) needs to have their head examined …
The Titanic, once embarked on its journey reaching its point of no return, was set to fulfill its destiny. No turning back. No reversing the course.
So too is Amerika. So too was Rome.
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Why the situation we’re in would have been worse with Clinton. Same shlt as Trump. But we wouldn’t be fighting back. Much as it was with Obama. We would roll over and acquiesce for Obama/Clinton style fascism. But with Trump we’d know what’s up..
Y’all better listen to the Undisputed Truth.
“Yo’ enemy can’t do you no harm.
“Cause you know where he coming from.
Don’t let the handshake and Her smile fool ya;
Take my advice, I’m only tryin’ to school ya.
“Odds are, Hillary would have committed many of the same outrages as Trump will. As a Democrat, however, she wouldn’t have faced the same level of protest or resistance from the Left — or a media willing to cover it.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/30/hillary-lost-should-we-care/
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“But I learned to burn that bridge and delete
Those who compete…at a level that’s obsolete
Instead I warm my hands upon the flames of the flag
As I recall our downfall
And the business that burned us all
See through the news and the views that twist reality”
Bombtrack by rage against the machine.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rageagainstthemachine/bombtrack.html
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Source: Matt Agorist
”
As Voltaire famously wrote, “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
Not in Trump’s America.
Only weeks after he’s been elected to the United States Presidency, Donald J. Trump has made his intentions on free speech quite clear. In what can be considered one of his most ominous jabbers yet, Trump just called for jailing people who burn the American flag.
In the early morning Tuesday hours, the president-elect just made a knee-jerk Twitter rant that circumvents the entire first amendment to the constitution as well as a landmark supreme court ruling.
With this tyrannical push by the neoliberal establishment media to censor fake news, Trumps willingness to dismiss free speech and resort to calls for kidnapping and caging people who disagree with him — is nothing short of bone-chilling.
Clearly ignoring the ostensible freedom the flag supposedly represents, Trump would rather see people punished for their speech — because it offends him.
In the famous Supreme Court case of Texas v. Johnson in 1989, a five-justice majority ruled that desecrating the American flag was protected speech under the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
The majority of the Court, according to Justice William Brennan, agreed with Johnson and held that flag burning constitutes a form of “symbolic speech” that is protected by the First Amendment. The majority noted that freedom of speech protects actions that society may find very offensive, but society’s outrage alone is not justification for suppressing free speech.
In particular, the majority noted that the Texas law discriminated upon viewpoint, i.e., although the law punished actions, such as flag burning, that might arouse anger in others, it specifically exempted from prosecution actions that were respectful of venerated objects, e.g., burning and burying a worn-out flag. The majority said that the government could not discriminate in this manner based solely upon viewpoint.
Despite this ruling, Americans from sea to shining sea continue to call for the arrest, or even death, of those who’d dare express their opinion through the use of the Old Glory.
And now, the supposed future Leader of the Free World is calling for it!
Trump’s adversary during the election is also a fan criminalizing the act of buring flags. In 2005, Hillary Clinton proposed the Flag Protection Act of 2005 which would have prohibited burning or otherwise destroying and damaging the US flag. It called for a punishment of one year in jail and a fine of $100,000.
Trump wants to take it a little further and strip your citizenship for it.
The very essence of freedom is tolerating peaceful forms of expression, no matter how uncomfortable they make us feel. Sadly missing the point, however, are folks like the future President who fail to understand that burning or desecrating a flag without fear of punishment from one’s government, is what liberty is all about.
When a society becomes more concerned with a piece of cloth than the freedom it is meant to represent, it’s time to wake up.
As an honorably discharged sergeant in the USMC, I am unoffended when I see flag set ablaze or stepped on — because I see it as an act of expression by a group who feels oppressed.
Those who feel oppressed must never be silenced.
Of course, by simply writing this article, I will be referred to as a liberal, a hippie, a commy, and a Clinton, Sanders, or Stein supporter. However, all these labels would be wrong. I am nothing more than pro-freedom.
I swore an oath to defend the constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Those who call for jailing citizens for their free speech are enemies to the constitution and to that freedom.
On January 20, 2017, Trump will take that same oath. If he continues to attack the constitution the way he is doing now, the oath will lose what little meaning it had left after Obama bled it dry.
If Trump has any respect for the men and women who serve in the armed forces and who have sworn an oath to uphold the constitution, he should immediately issue an apology and a reversal on this tyrannical stance.”
I’m not holding my breath waiting for THAT to happen!
http://www.blacklistednews.com/BREAKING%3A_President-Elect_Trump_Calls_for_Jailing_People_for_Protected_Free_Speech/55516/0/38/38/Y/M.html
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honestly i’m conflicted about the flag, i had considered getting an american flag tattoo some 25 or so years ago but my mom laughed at me, so i nixed that one, still don’t have any ink… but it really goes along with the love of ‘unit designating patches’ such as you would learn for example in boy scouts and continue with a military career … i mean i don’t think anyone has thought the russians would seriously invade since about 1982 (about when the red dawn movie came out) and obviously if the red chinese army showed up with digital camo and ak47’s i think most americans whether they hated each other or not would band together for that purpose, but insofar as a symbol of the degredation and corruption that permeates the infrastructure, it’s really embarrassing sometimes…
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i have a really large flag somewheres like 4’x6′ i can’t find it now, i was planning on putting in the basement when i get a house, so you know, it can wait
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@lom earth to lord of mirkwood the civil war is over
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@v8driver
The Old Confederacy (and Hollywood, who adores the Confederacy) never stopped fighting the Civil War. They are still fighting it to this day.
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@LoM
Your comments about flying the flag reminds me of an article by an Arab American activist written a couple of years after 9-11. She commented about how White and immigrant neighborhoods in the five boroughs of New York were awash in American flags. She contrasted that with walking through Black neighborhoods at the time and seeing no flags at all.
Walking or driving through an area festooned with flags creeps out many Black people. Copious displays of flags often accompany White Nationalist gatherings and communities.
Besides, many Black people feel they have no need to prove their American identity….
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@LOM
“Do you believe that the left and right wing are similar only in how their policies are applied when they rule a country (i.e. Stalin-Hitler similarities), or do you see similarities in the fundamental philosophies of the two?”—I really just see them both as racist parties. Right wing is blunter about their racism, while left wing is subtler. I will even go so far as to say left-wing or liberal people are subconsciously racist as many of them don’t even realize they are or simply don’t care. Yet lately I will admit I have had trouble distinguishing them on that basis as well.
For example, I have a right-wing friend and a left-wing friend. Each believe that Race is not a big issue today. My left-wing friend is all about fighting for the Dakota pipe line, but recently told black women that they have no issue with their hair as people love it. All that while ignoring the little girl in Africa fighting to wear hers, the supreme court ruling on dreads, etc. My right wing friend will say how much she loves my natural hair but will be quick to post something about how blm sucks and black people need to clean up their community.
“By the way: I love your new avatar.”—Thanks.
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@LoM
“…if you had to walk through a neighborhood festooned with one of these flags, which would give you more pause – one with the U.S. flag, or one with the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag? Or would they both give you equal amounts of ill feeling? “
Both would creep me out.
To me, there is very little difference in the level of historical violence either flag represents.
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http://herneith.d.pr/Pv5u
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@ LoM
The national flag represents many of the great sins of this country:
• The wars against Native Americans, the theft of their land, the eradication of their cultures, the horrors of the boarding school system. It was the Northern hero General Sherman who said, “The only good Indian is a dead Indian.”
• The aggression that led to the Mexican-American War and the theft of large swaths of Mexico.
• The illegal takeover of Hawaii and the attempts to destroy Hawaiian culture.
• The war in the Philippines to crush their movement for independence and forcibly establish American colonial rule.
• The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
• The Vietnam War.
• The ongoing atrocities of drone warfare in the Middle East.
These things cannot be blamed on the Confederacy or the South alone.
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@ LoM
“almost all of them contain some reference to the “glorious Stripes and Stars” (with the nouns often placed in that order, for some reason)”
Probably for purposes of rhyme. Stripes isn’t that easy.
Also note the Star-Spangled Banner says “whose broad stripes and bright stars” in a similar configuration.
———————-
I don’t think you’re hearing Sharina. Leftist ideology may very well be anti-racist in theory, but in action many self-identifying liberals believe racism is over, do not see their own unconscious racism, and do not center the struggle against racism as an essential part of their liberal politics.
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@ LoM
“I would also not confuse racism with simple ignorance about something going on halfway around the world. (The case about natural African hair is taking place in a school near Cape Town, South Africa, if I am not mistaken.)”
Right here in our own country, African Americans face prejudice against natural hairstyles, workplace discrimination against people who wear natural styles, and stereotypes that assume natural hairstyles signify certain character traits. They also have to deal with rude white people touching their hair without permission.
To be ignorant about this phenomenon is a type of unearned white privilege. White people can be unaware of the dilemma black people face about wearing their hair naturally because it doesn’t affect them personally. White people have the unearned privilege of not facing a similar dilemma about their own natural hair because their hair hasn’t been stigmatized through centuries of racist attitudes.
White people often perpetuate these stereotypcial ideas out of ignorance — which they could choose to correct by educating themselves and listening to black people but most never do.
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For me, it is probably Confederate imagery.
I love the Confederate imagery, it reminds me of Leghorn Foghorn!
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@Herneith
“Yeah, Donald Trump’s a bigot, but Senate Democrats aren’t far behind”
It’s all been Democrat cosmetics. A miniscule amount of blacks at the top. An Obama, a black senator. Rubber stamp black AGs. White supremacy in blackface.
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LOM
As I said in a comment in an exchange that has apparently vanished talking about the disease of racism, these are white minds in black bodies.
Obama, a black senator. Rubber stamp black AGs.
Strange. I see no notice that comments have been deleted.
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@ LoM
“As for people with gauche behavior and no concept of basic personal privacy, eff them.”
Easy for you to say when you’re not the one facing workplace pressure to change your natural hair to something unnatural against your will. Are you seriously suggesting black people in this situation should tell their white boss to eff off?
“I don’t think it’s a good idea for those of us on the left to engage in excessive amounts of sniping between us.”
There’s sniping, and then there’s not listening to what a black woman is trying to tell you about her lived experiences and dismissing her concerns.
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My bad. Found it.
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Wha..? The only black senator is a republican?I really hadn’t kept up. Democrats are even worse than I thought.
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@ LoM
For legal action to be successful, you’d need a court that believes it is unreasonable to demand an employee change their natural hair as part of a dress code — a court willing to go against centuries of racist doctrinization that normalizes white hair and stigmatizes black hair.
One way to resist Donald Trump and the fascist racists of the alt-right is to listen to the concerns of POC, give credence to their voices, and help to rectify injustices against them wherever you can — including issues about natural hair.
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Solitaire
Only seen the last few comments but get the gist. LoM seems to be of the belief that the justice system would always be consistent no matter what the race of the person putting their case forward. Recommending people stick two fingers up to discrimination misses the overriding point that they should not be being subjected to this in the first place. The law still it seems does not always work the same for everyone if events of events the last couple of years tell us anything. It’s naive to think otherwise
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@ LoM
“Hollywood and the Confederacy…it is still shameful, how they have pandered the memories of some of the worst people in our country’s history.”
Over the years, I wondered why Hollywood depicted Confederates as noble victims of aggressive, uncouth Unionists. It wasn’t until I read about the huge propaganda effort of former Confederates from 1890 to 1940 to re-brand the Civil War that I understood why Hollywood carried water for the South.
I just heard an interview on FAIR’s (Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting) podcast with Jim Loewen, author of the book Lies My Teacher Told Me. Loewen describes how the former Confederates recast the reasons for the Civil War from a defense of slavery to disagreements about states rights.
As a result of their successful re-branding campaign, many Americans are mistaken about the causes and results of the Civil War. In essence, they snatched victory from the jaws of defeat by changing the national narrative about the Civil War—and the centrality of slavery—by casting themselves as victims. To the shame of the Unionists, they let them get away with their lies.
The eight minute interview can be found here:
[audio src="http://www.fair.org/audio/counterspin/CounterSpin161125Loewen.mp3" /]
For Hollywood these stories of noble White victims was cinematic gold. They found that anti-Blackness shared by White Americans throughout the nation made audiences sympathetic to images of Southern White men with guns defending their homes against White and Black unionists. The infamous D. W. Griffith film Birth of a Nation was popular throughout the country. It is no accident that Griffith’s film featured anti-Black stereotypes that still infest Hollywood movies to this day.
✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
Abagond wrote a post about the book, Lies My Teacher Told Me by James W. Loewen:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/james-w-loewen-lies-my-teacher-told-me/
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A link to the page with the FAIR interview:
http://fair.org/home/sumi-cho-and-alicia-garza-on-election-and-intersection-james-loewen-on-misreporting-history/#
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LoM
We have that already — it’s called the EEO. You have no comprehension of what it takes to file a successful complaint or to sue in court (state or federal) for workplace discrimination and/or violation of civil rights.
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@Afrofem…Heard that interview — good sh*t!
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@ LoM
It’s because they’re white. POC in Canada don’t get those types of results.
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@ Deb
Yes, some lies can outlast the truth for generations.
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@LoM
Good examples and valid points.
Hollywood has a lot to answer for but I’m not expecting anything close to reality from them anytime soon.
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@Afrofem…Darlin’, I so agree. I’ve been livin’ here in SC since 2014 and I’m weary. James Loewen nothwithstanding, the truth HERE wears me the f*ck out…
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@ Deb
I hear you.
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@LOM
In regards to flags it’s non if my business what you do with yours.
Economic fascism and economic socialism are very simular in structure and institution.
The U.S.already reflects economic facism. What Trump brings is a Nationalism and white centric identify that normalizes racism and xenophobia.
The left and right both want to use the force of the State to direct their citizenry. Both can become totalitarian.
If you look back at the cold war between the communists and the capitalists the end game was which group of white imperialists were going to control the world’s resources. It was characterised as a fight between right and left but that was the distraction. Propaganda and coercion is what got other countries to form alliances and give up control of their resources to either the American or Russian super powers in exchange for protection from the evil “other”.
In a sense the left/right paradigm deflects away from what is really going which which is a white hegemony of resources and economy.
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Speaking of white minds in black bodies, quiet as a cap, the rich are not like you. The black rich are not like you. The black Jewish are not like you. The mulatto president is not like you.
(https://youtu.be/zCmwGlsLy8s)
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hmmm… m*latto must be a moderated term
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my bad again. its a video
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the black president was raised in the household of a banker. his higher education financed by a Saudi prince
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDm3TPE1BO4)
“Let us transform whatever fear we have in to the courage we will need to do the work that needs to be done.” paraphrase of Origin.
Carville too is saying, “we have to deal with this, if it happens.” And lo and behold, it did happen.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
You know I will disagree. Simply because ignorance to me has become an excuse to hide racism, but before going into that I want to address the natural hair issue in Africa. While the brave darling did fight over there, there are cases of it being an issue here in the united states as well. The parents fought those.
If liberal ideology goes against racism, then most liberals are going against the core values.
Re: Racism vs ignorance.
In the past I would take the time to educate people on some of the racial things they say, because I strongly believed they were simply ignorant. After several posts of doing so, I realized that they wanted to remain ignorant. I think the marker between the two is when given the information how you deal with or respond to it tells if you are racist or just ignorant. For example, I met a Canadian female on a blog yesterday. Her response to anything was I am Canadian and my family never owned slaves. She would say her mother had all types of friends, etc. She even tried the African’s sold their own argument and whined because I said whites. I finally pointed out her to that she had all the talking points of a causal racist. And no I never used the word racist, but rather a comparison method. She would simply deflect to something else. Usually something I never said or a random family member she wanted to throw out to prove how not racist her family was. She is what I would call racist, because with my efforts to educate she did not care. She saw it as her own way.
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@Deb
You are in SC with me. How are things looking your way?
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Yeah, I’m still talking about Hillary, and so is Andrew Levine .
“No doubt, those who voted for Hillary in order to stop Trump were acting with the best of intentions. But, as has been clear all along, all they succeeded in doing was deflecting attention away from the paramount struggle of our time – the struggle against all that Hillary and husband Bill epitomize and represent,.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/must-we-now-rethink-the-hillary-question-absolutely-not/.
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@Solitaire
I have seen it go beyond that. I have watched white women claim that their hair is the same and they are also victims so it is not a racial thing. Because this is on facebook you get to take a peak and most of those women have the acceptable curl and not the kinky coily found in black hair. The new silencing tool for whites is “we have it too.”
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“nomad
Speaking of white minds in black bodies, quiet as a cap, the rich are not like you. The black rich are not like you. The black Jewish are not like you. The mulatto president is not like you.
(https://youtu.be/zCmwGlsLy8s)”
nomad, you are not like you. A river is never the same from one moment to the next. Wisdom from the Ancient Greeks.
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@Nomad
And Adams continued focus on her is successful in deflecting away from the actual struggle of our time. Trump and his regime.
Hillary didn’t get in so I just don’t see what struggle of our time he is referring to.
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My mistake. Andrew.
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@LoM
Quebec’s government sounds more and more fascist with each new law I read about. From Montreal’s and Quebec’s laws where they can kill your pet with no ability for the pet owner to appeal that decision. What reason is there to prevent somebody from appealing the decision of some government official that might be biased. Due to a new law in Montreal, Montreal’s SPCA is having to move many animals to either Nova Scotia or Saskatchewan because the law calls for the euthanasia of those animals that are in shelters just because of their genetics or even their looks. Cat gets outside, euthanize it. Dog looks like a pit bull, euthanize it, Dog deemed aggressive by an “officer”, euthanize it. Dog misidentified by an “officer”, euthanize it. An owner appealing these decisions, not an option. Fortunately, the SPCA lawsuit against the Montreal law has been successful in suspending the law for the time being.
Any time somebody does not have the ability to appeal a decision made against them, that should be a sign that the law is unfair.
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Hang down your head Bill Clinton.
Hang down your head and cry.
Hang down your head Bill Clinton.
Clintonism just died.
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” the paramount struggle of our time – the struggle against all that Hillary and husband Bill epitomize and represent,.”
.
As my favorite Black actor/martial-artist/entertainer would say: “Ya damn skippy !!”
“Hillary didn’t get in so I just don’t see what struggle of our time he is referring to.”
As a long time career criminal she’s dangerous. If she’s breathing and isn’t wearing orange (or some other prison garb) she remains a threat to humanity. Listen to Edwin Starr!
War, it ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it’s got one friend
That’s the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much too short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can’t give life
It can only take it away
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I called it Fascist because of not allowing appeals. But the law you described reads rather one way. It sounds like it protects French speakers but does nothing for English speakers.
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Glass half full. Trump says his admin will stop tumbling regimes and creating chaos in foreign lands. I hope he means it. I could never imagine Hillary saying the same thing.
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@ Fan
Comment deleted for referring to human beings as cockroaches.
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@ Abagond
(I hope this has nothing to do with your ongoing moderation mess/argument with resw as I have nothing to do with that!)
I did not make a comment. I simply copied/pasted an entire article of interest I found at thedailysheeple.com.
Are you now going to delete all postings from OTHER news sources if they contain words not to your liking – without exception??
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@ LoM
Why doesn’t Quebec have similar laws protecting the speakers of First Nation languages”??
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@LoM
But why not allow any appeals? I understand about long drawn-out court cases, but no appeals at all?
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^^^it is not so bad , abagond, that your white psychopathic racist supremacist had ordered this human being to commit depraved and base acts of nature – necro phi lia with the one of the most oppressive and worst racist dictators in history – a very evil man, in the most graphic way, who that had a direct hand in my suffering as a child under apartheid. i had let you know on this blog when it happened that it was extremely upsetting, yet you had let that comment stay.
i had e-mailed you almost immediately. you completely ignored my e-mail. i then had asked you a month later to delete it as you had allowed it to be published and deleted it at my behest.
( my restraint had not allowed me from challenging you before when you had deleted another of Fan…’s comments towards this base human being .)
you have allowed him to become a “respectable” member of your blog, giving him a platform, even siding with him, that legitimate, sharp, (Black?) commenters are now trolls, when he is one of, if not the worst troll on your blog.
so much for all your prolific writings on racism. your hypocricy is truly outstanding and it gives me no pleasure to criticise another Black person.
that comment of his is a gross CRIMINAL act, by the laws in my country and yours and international convoluted legality and costs regarding cyber-crime had prevented me from pursuing it further.
i must take it that african women are not worthy of your respect , but vile catholic, american, democrat, white supremacist racist sickos who take their cue from ted bundy and jeffrey dahmer, are.
it would have been a different story had you and his other black lackey distanced yourselves from him, one thing I can tell you if any white person had abused about another black he had done me , never in my life would i ever a mote of respect for that (white) person. yet you ENTERTAIN him and give him a platform.
your inconsistent and hypocritical comment policy has reduced my esteem of you considerably. and your accepting attitude of mirkwood’s racism undermines your prolific writing on racism as if you had not learnt anything from your own writing.
what is it about mirkwood criminally depraved comment towards me that is permissible, yet you deleted Fan…’s comment?
is it that you have internalized that Africans, your ancestors, are indeed the bestial sa vages that the white slave-masters and latter day genocidal imperialists have implanted in African American minds and that being a christian is superior to your African brethren?
please answer.
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@ Fan….
I apologize for wrongly mistating that you had attibuted your comments to mirkwood.
“my restraint had not allowed me from challenging you before when you had deleted another of Fan…’s comments towards this base human being .)”
the gist of my comment stands.
@ Fan…
( i might just be your no. 1 fan)
Sorry to embarrass you on both counts.
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@ LoM
“So, this is exactly what I meant by the Québec thing being another way to derail the thread. Maybe I should not have brought it up at all.”
Probably not.
“I thought it would be a convenient analogy to propose a way to eradicate the harassment people with African hair face”
It’s not a good analogy. Francophones are the majority in Montreal, and from what you’ve said, they are primarily the ones interpreting and enforcing the law.
“but instead we seem to be headed towards Québec-bashing territory.”
Cry me a river. Whenever someone points out to you that one of your analogies using a white sub-group doesn’t equate, you yell discrimination.
“By the way, you never have really said what you think of my plans to make the EEOC more like the OQLF.”
It’s a terrible analogy because the OQLF deals with one area of discrimination while the EEOC and other EEO offices/departments deal with a myriad: race, ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, disability, veteran status, immigrant status. I’ve seen cases where an employee of one racial minority group brings a complaint against a supervisor of another racial minority group; who then has the automatic benefit of the doubt under your proposed system?
“I will respond to your query, but know that this thread is now over 500 comments, and a minority are about Trump.”
The topic of this post isn’t Trump; it’s Abagond’s declaration that he was taking a break from debating the election. Almost none of the 500 subsequent comments have been on topic.
“We’ve been getting along so well when we’re talking about him. How about some more of that?”
It’s too bad, isn’t it? We were having such a nice discussion , but someone has to call you out on your b*llsh*t.
This all started when Sharina tried to explain to you why she sees little difference between liberals and conservatives with regards to racism. She brought up hair as an example only. Yet somehow you’ve now got the focus on your grandiose plans of how to end discrimination against natural hair, not to mention defending the rights of Francophone speakers in Canada and proposing a long-winded debate on their treatment of First Nations people (if you want my thoughts on that, you can begin here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/01/welcome-to-native-american-heritage-month-2016/#comment-357036).
In all, a masterful if not frenetic deflection away from a truth you don’t want to face: that many white liberals are racist, do not want to acknowledge their racism, and will go to great lengths to change the conversation.
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my previous comment disappeared:
@ Fan….
I apologize for incorrectly mistating that you had attributed your comments to mirkwood.
the gist of comment still stands.
@ Fan…
( I may just be your no.1 fan).
Apology for embarrassing you on both counts.
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@ LoM
And you still owe Taotesan a sincere, unqualified, humble apology for the horrific thing you said to her, which you so far have been unable to bring yourself to do.
@ Taotesan
Your points are valid. I don’t know exactly why I keep talking to him. He has driven me to frustration many times, and once I almost left this place entirely due to him. But sometimes he seems like he’s starting to make some progress and that he’s actually learning. It may all be an act. I know that Fan and some others have stated their belief that it is an act.
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@taotesan
“you have allowed him to become a “respectable” member of your blog, giving him a platform, even siding with him, that legitimate, sharp, (Black?) commenters are now trolls, when he is one of, if not the worst troll on your blog. …so much for all your prolific writings on racism. your hypocricy is truly outstanding… ”
+1000. It really is disappointing.
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@Fan
Putting in asterisks does not make it better. I suggest you provide a summary or a money quote and then give the link.
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@Fan
I suggest you start expressing your love for Hillary and start trashing Trump if you want you don’t want your comments unfairly deleted.
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*I suggest you start expressing your love for Hillary and start trashing Trump if you don’t want your comments unfairly deleted.
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@ Solitaire
i could not remember the thread where I had last reposted that comment
I did not repost to extract an apology from him, I did not want one or need one from the likes of him. No empathy or insight from this one. He is incorrigible.
The older I am , through bitter experience I have come to know absolutely as far as white people go, no matter what their persuasion or ethnicity or locale that most are incorrigible as racists. Plain and simple. Liberals or leftists wear sophisticated masks and use every single arsenal in their racist cache to exonerate themselves without the due introspection that should emanate from decent human beings. Conservatives, verkramptes, or right-wingers are not bothered with cosmetic theatrics.
Empathy is not one of the things i would expect from any white person. i have simply never experienced it in all of my 50 years. The rara aves amongst whites like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro are demonized and character assissinated from the very ones who cry their heads off ( like this one) that they are not privileged, not racists and indeed the true victims.
I am telling you this because you had addressed me. In my private life, I have stopped speaking to whites unless it is necessary.
All that i want from whites ( in my country) is to have our land and resources back and to not interefere. Empathy and insight into ones racism are the last qualities i would attribute to any white person.
The reason I had reposted it was to expose Abagond ‘s hypocricy insofar as his comment policy goes, and to expose mirkwood as the vile that he is.
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@ Taotesan
You have never embarrassed me, unlike another person you’ve already alluded to.
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@ Taotesan
“I did not repost to extract an apology from him, I did not want one or need one from the likes of him. No empathy or insight from this one. He is incorrigible.”
Understood, and understandable. I said that to him now because I wanted to remind him of his fault, but I have no expectation that he will ever bring himself to apologize, and even if he did, you have every right not to accept it or believe it.
“I am telling you this because you had addressed me. In my private life, I have stopped speaking to whites unless it is necessary.”
Again, very understandable that you would feel this way. If you would rather I not address you any more under any circumstances, please tell me so and I will abide by it.
“All that i want from whites ( in my country) is to have our land and resources back and to not interefere.”
I hope you will attain this.
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“@Fan
Putting in asterisks does not make it better. I suggest you provide a summary or a money quote and then give the link. ”
_____________________
@ Abagond,
It’s quite interesting that you deleted a whole copied and pasted piece from a news site that contained the word “cockroaches.” But you let stand LoM’s “F” words with asterisks, F word mis-spelled and his “Finger” comment attacks against me. No doubt at all that you have some excellent reasons why you let those profane words and action against me stand.You always do!
In fact, I have seen countless examples of commenters using asterisks to get around the moderation filters. I’m sure you have to too. But, for me, on a word that’s not even my own, no dice. Why not be a man and come out and say you have a vendetta against me??
I stand with Taotesan as a second witness in her testimony against you and that person who seems to have at least 2 protective (over-nurturing/over-nursing) mammies plus a REALLY BIG authoritative daddy (to no avail) on this website.
I have to ask why you haven’t simply created some reason/excuse to ban me?? Or would that be just a bit too obvious??
If you don’t like my presence here, you could just ask me to leave.. or would you rather just have me remain on here so you could try to beat up on me when the mood, or excuse, hits??
This is a new low for you Abagond. This election thing has sent you in a downward spiral! Is this what being on the losing side of a debate/argument does to poor Julian?? You need much more than a mere rest-break.
You need to man up!
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@ taotesan
I in no way defend that comment or my slowness in deleting it. It was a grave error on my part. My apologies. If there is some way I can make it up to you, please let me know.
I follow a free-speech model of commenting, not a safe-space model. So, by the nature of this blog, racists are going to be given a platform:
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@ Fan
Maybe not. Which comments are you talking about?
On cockroaches: Calling people cockroaches led to the Rwandan genocide. So no, no amount of asterisks is going to save it. If LOM called Blacks “m*nkeys”, you think I would let that through just because of the asterisk? Do you not see how that is worse than, say “sh*t”?
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“nomad
Glass half full. Trump says his admin will stop tumbling regimes and creating chaos in foreign lands. I hope he means it. I could never imagine Hillary saying the same thing.”
My, such naïveté! Why does he want Cuba to crawl on its belly if he’s really giving up creating chaos in foreign lands?
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Fan …
Let’s be honest…even with an orange jump suit she could be dangerous if we are to look at it that way. Remember the mafia still functioned in prison. However, if she had the power we thought then she might have actually won the election. And I strongly believe the election is rigged. The elites choose. Not the people.
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“If LOM called Blacks “m*nkeys”, you think I would let that through just because of the asterisk?”
@ Abagond
You have the most convenient lapses of memory I’ve seen on this blog.
Of course YOU wouldn’t remember the big hullabaloo I made when Mirkwood posted those offense STORMFRONT pictures of Obomber and his wife Michelle photo-shopped as chimpanzees with a monkey joke as the caption! I pleaded you vehemently to delete that RACIST affront to Black people, but of course you came up with one of those patented Abagond excuses why your Mirkwood’s pictures should remain. Go ahead and ask me where … as if I’ll somehow feel the need to prove myself to deceitful, wily and cowardly individuals! HA
Your defense and excusing of your boy’s behavior is visible to practically everyone, except you. Even now he’s embolden by your defense of him. Obviously enough for him to try to smear me as a troll. Ain’t that funny! Like the pot (actually the poster troll boy of all things green/irish) calling the kettle black. How pathetic….
I especially see your hypocrisy when you go back and edit/delete portions of your own comments, Abagond – AFTER you’ve been exposed. I have better ways of wasting my time than going through endless threads (or this thread re your now disappeared words on how you – in your response to me – supposedly deleted M’s offensive words to Taotesan without any urging from her) showing that you’ll misrepresent yourself after the fact and that you are as disingenuous as Kiwi. Mirkwood tosses some f words and the “finger” at me…what/where/when am I talking about, says you.
Except I’m not playing that game. I have nothing to prove to you. Nor am I a liar.
“On cockroaches: Calling people cockroaches led to the Rwandan genocide. So no, no amount of asterisks is going to save it.”
Surrreee Abagond. If one of your Hillary buddies were to past a NY TIMES story or piece here about Trump calling some people [insects that begin with a “C”] you would have deleted that immediately upon yanking it out of your moderation filter. I’d believe that about as quick as I’d believe that you travel to Pluto for lunch on your magical oriental rug 3 times a week.
Your site, your rules, no matter how biased and hypocritically you apply them
People, myself included, used to look up to you. Your work, honesty, moderation and integrity was once inspiring. But as Taotesan eloquently alludes to, which I stand by 1000%, something in you has cracked, snapped or crashed. It’s as if your now faulty and confused Hard Drive’s RTTF (run time to failure) is failing prematurely; its motor speed is erratic with spindle-disc spin-out errors as well as repetitive head crashes with scratched sectors, damaged cylinders and an inconsistent clock pulse. Your head/disk assembly needs to return to the clean-room for rework! Or scrapped for parts if there’s anything of value left! Even the and, or, nor, nand, etc gates chip have gone whack!
Last thing: Your comment policy allows the comments of WHITE racist trolls. But comments from Black commenters get deleted for the most minute and trifling nonsense like “calling people cockroaches led to the Rwandan genocide” relatively speaking! How bass-ackward is that??
You say you’re a Catholic? Then you should know that the God you claim to worship called people all manner of animals and insects: foxes, swine, snakes, goats, sheep, dogs, locusts, worms – just to name a few.
Yup. Corrupted HD assembly with early RTTF!
Handle your stress appropriately. Don’t bring it/put it where it doesn’t belong, else YOUR site will suffer more …
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grojo
“My, such naïveté! Why does he want Cuba to crawl on its belly if he’s really giving up creating chaos in foreign lands?”
you tell me, mr glass half empty.
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“nomad, you are not like you.”
that’s so wise it don’t even make sense. of course I’m like me. who else would I be like? if a river is never the same from one moment to the next how come they call it by the same name?.
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@ Fan
If I remember correctly, the point of LOM’s Obama pictures was to point out how they were being dehumanized. Your post was not about the dehumanization of communists. It just did it like it was no big thing. It is like the difference between talking about the N-word and using the N-word.
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“I strongly believe the election is rigged. The elites choose. Not the people.”
@ Sharina
I’ve been saying (actually arguing that point foremost with Solitaire and our duplicitous and slick site owner, Abagond) before, louder and longer than most here. Of course you would know this if you were reading posts and my comments. But hey, there’s a lot of stuff here I haven’t seen or read either.
I think Hillary and company miscalculated. I believe, and I could be wrong, that they thought they had this (s)election won. Didn’t need to work hard… saw Trump as his own worst enemy, etc.
Whoops… were they WRONG/stunned/surprised!
Anywho. She may still function somewhat in prison but it won’t be anywhere near how she might function if she was privvy to face to face meetings with other (s)elected gang members. It’s not so easy to do as much dirt when one is in a cage as it is to be a queen-pin of crime when one isn’t caged.
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Fan
“I think Hillary and company miscalculated. ”
I remember saying that weeks before the election. “It backfired on her ass.” Folks didn’t believe me. I had no idea how right I was.
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her promoting Trump as her defeatable opponent
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@ Abagond
“If I remember correctly, the point of LOM’s Obama pictures was to point out how they were being dehumanized.”
.
(Ha! Funny how you recall CERTAIN points. Other points, not so much.)
Yeah… as if the Black people here needed yet another pointy white hooded wearing racist troll to don his condescension hat to point out to us lowly negros just how dumb as rocks Black people are in NOT KNOWING how dehumanizing the Obombers (and the rest of us) are being treated by other racist whites. Who knows, maybe the even the clueless Obombers clan checked in here long enough to learn of their own dehumanization.
Apparently, according to your defunct reasoning, some dummies existing in a bubble somewhere (Allen Shaw) needed the racist iris Mirkwood to point out Obomber’s mistreatment on your site, by other racist white people.
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@ Abagond
Something is very wrong with you, dude. That disc drive analogy I recently presented wasn’t an insult, or a joke. Seriously, I hope whatever is cracked in you is remedied soon. It’s not a good look.
“Your post was not about the dehumanization of communists.”
Nope. It was just another unflattering look at HC. A look at how some on the left is attempting to dehumanize the voters by using any means available to them to steal the (s)election with TEN specific possible outcomes (according to the author, not me) on how she or/and her people might try to make a last second attempt to steal the (s)election.
A piece full of guesses, fears, innuendos, predictions, assumptions, imaginings and other scared thoughts in a similar philosophical style you and your Hillary bunch are well acquainted with — you know, future dire warnings/projections regarding her opponent. You guys may have met your match in this author!
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Who knew that calling some communists cockroaches would be your breaking point? I mean calling Black people monkeys with pictures and captions was okay so who could’ve guessed you’d find roaches all that objectionable?? Definitely not me!
Oh wait.. my bad!
What the Heil Hillary was I thinking???
Blue Pill swallowers aren’t into learning anything outside of their blue pill squalor. They live little lives invested in staying as far away as possible from anything the establishment says is a conspiracy theory. They are auto-self-contained within their tight little paradigms and parameters, their narrow confining boxes with silly thinking like Allen Shaw’s ardent belief in how wonderfully fantastic and giving the Clintons and their benevolent Foundation are to the less fortunate.
{rolls eyes and shakes head…}
{{Thunderous rousing applause, furious foot stomping of jackbooted feet, swearing of allegiance and loyalty to da greatest female criminal of all time.
Heil Hillary!
Heil Hillary!!
Heil Hillary!!!
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@ Abagond
Have you ever thought of running for office? You are almost the consummate politician. With a little more training you’d be ready. Especially with your little racist butt kisser poised and ready at your backside! Sky’s the limit!
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@Fan…
“Of course you would know this if you were reading posts and my comments. But hey, there’s a lot of stuff here I haven’t seen or read either.”—I actually have seen someone mention it prior to you commenting here, but I don’t read all comments and the statement was not meant to make you feel as if you hadn’t said it. The statement was just a declaration of how I feel about the government and have for years.
“I think Hillary and company miscalculated.”—I guess miscalculated is the best way to look at it. Those elites she thought were in her pocket were actually in Trumps.
“She may still function somewhat in prison but it won’t be anywhere near how she might function if she was privvy to face to face meetings with other (s)elected gang etc.”—We would have to agree to disagree with this because those on the outside would make her in and out access seamless. Special rights. In and out accesses with payoff for guards to not say anything etc.
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@ Sharina
“I actually have seen someone mention it prior to you commenting here”
Now you’ve piqued my curiosity since I believe I’ve been here a long time, beginning my presence here as a lurker. Would you care to reveal who this someone is?
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“you tell me, mr glass half empty.”
No problem. Trump is the same kind as HRC, only, he doesn’t want to take on Russia for the obvious reason that Russia’s bark is backed by a mean bite! As for Cuba, Iran, etc., your hero feels he can play with them at very little cost to the USA. So, mr. glass half full, you’ll have to look elsewhere for your non-interventionist hero.
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@ Sharina
“Those elites she thought were in her pocket were actually in Trumps.”
Which elites might you be referring to?
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gro jo
” your hero feels he can play with them at very little cost to the USA. So”
“my hero”
yall do like to misinterpret people. you folks are a trip.
“Blue Pill swallowers aren’t into learning anything outside of their blue pill squalor. They live little lives invested in staying as far away as possible from anything the establishment says is a conspiracy theory. They are auto-self-contained within their tight little paradigms and parameters, their narrow confining boxes with silly thinking” to quote an astute commenter.
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@ gro jo
I reported what Trump said and said I hope he means it. That makes me naïve and Trump my hero. And thus I’m suppose to know what his plans are for Cuba. You are an aspersion casting zombie.
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@ Nomad
How are you going to (indirectly) drag me into your debate with my bud, um our fellow commenter gro-jo, and then omit the best (honest) part out of my quote? lol
But then, if you didn’t omit that part that you omitted, the quote may not have been applicable, not that I’m saying that it is …
I’m having way too much fun this morning. But that’s what Saturdays are for!
I might even go for a bike ride!
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@ taotesan
One of the reasons Abagond has an open policy is that racists who do post here confirm the things Abagond writes about so in that sense it is useful.
My problem with Resw is that I think she is white pretending to be Black. She trolls Abagond’s liberalism while Fan’s, Origin’s and Nomad’s critique of Abagond ia about understanding what happen in the U.S. elelctions, what were the underlying causes of that and what the greatest threat are moving forward.
@Shairnair
I agree that canidates are chosen by the elites within the establishment. That said I don’t belive the “elites” intended Trump should win.
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@abagond said: ” I in no way defend that comment or my slowness in deleting it. It was a grave error on my part.”
I don’t think abagond would ever defend such a comment.
He just allows his racist troll to break the rules until someone calls out the hypocrisy.
@lord of mirkwood
“Go ahead. Just go. Make my day.”
As we can see, meth use in the Northeast is out of control.
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Fan…
Man (I think) you have such a way with words sometimes I just want to plagarize.
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@michaeljonbarker
“My problem with Resw is that I think she is white pretending to be Black. She trolls Abagond’s liberalism…”
Hmmm. Interesting observation.
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@michaeljonbarker: “My problem with Resw is that I think she is white pretending to be Black.”
I’d expect a klansman to be overly concerned with whether or not I’m black.
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@Afrofem
“Hmmm. Interesting observation.”
I’d bet, since nothing says I’m imitating a black woman like AFROFEM.
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“to quote an astute commenter.”
Thank you Nomad. Though I’m fairly certain that Abagond, lom, Allen Shaw, Kiwi and perhaps some others don’t share your opinion .. (as if I care).
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“As we can see, meth use in the Northeast is out of control.”
Talk about gushing with mirth! lol
Am I having a Santa moment? Naw… he’s a white dude. I’m not!
But if this day continues on with this much fun, I’m going to explode from all this smiling!!
Ho, ho,ho… I wonder if Dancer and Rudolph allow little elfin leprechauns on Santa’s ride?? Or, Mister Bobble Potato Heads??
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@ Nomad
“Man (I think) you have such a way with words sometimes I just want to plagarize.”
(Thank you – again)
That’s because I rarely sleep; and when I do, I sleep in a chair next to a thesaurus. My cat taught me English. 🙂
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@Fan…
“Now you’ve piqued my curiosity since I believe I’ve been here a long time, beginning my presence here as a lurker. Would you care to reveal who this someone is?”—I can’t remember exactly who it is, but I want to say the commenter truthbetold. It use to be part of the discussion on this blog at some point. I want to narrow it down to the re-election of Obama when it was talked about.
“Which elites might you be referring to?”—The big business corporations. The I own everything types and the average people will never know.
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@MJB
“That said I don’t belive the “elites” intended Trump should win.”—If they control everything, then how did they not intend it? I guess I may view the reach of their control different. I view it as they allow the people to vote and think they are making a change, but really already have it set up for who they want.
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I can’t remember seeing any of the frequent commenters here enthusiastically supporting Trump or HRC. Instead, the strong feelings were against one or the other candidate. There’s been a overriding sense of “picking the lesser evil” on both sides.
Somehow, though, this has quickly turned into both sides acccusing and/or characterizing the other side of supporting and liking either Trump or HRC.
It is happening on both sides and causing all sorts of bitterness.
Neither the Republican nor the Democratic presidential candidate was good. In fact, they both s*cked to a degree never yet seen in a U.S. presidential election. It’s a travesty.
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@ Sharina
I believe you’re correct regarding Truthbetold. I think Matari may have been another. And another person (Black male) whose name I can’t recall right now. He’s still around. King’s and Kwamla’s voices were in there too, but I’m not sure re their positions.
@ Solitaire
Back before all the fuss started re Clinton/Trump my argument was more about how the (s)elections are rigged, and if votes could change things they’d be rendered illegal. You and Abagond were the ones I recall tussling with the most about the effectiveness of votes – presidential versus local elections, how votes are rigged, how citizens are disenfranchised, disqualified, steered to the wrong precincts, on wrong days and times, etc.
My comments about the hanging, dimpled, chads and the US supreme court stopping the recount in the Gore-Bush II election. I even challenged Abagond to write a post about Diebold voting machines and other voting abnormalities: rigging/vote disqualifications so that the research needed to write such a post might open his eyes that seemed tightly shut.
“It is happening on both sides and causing all sorts of bitterness.”
Yup, I agree. There’s been a lot of bitterness then, and even now.
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@ Fan
“Back before all the fuss started re Clinton/Trump my argument was more about how the (s)elections are rigged, and if votes could change things they’d be rendered illegal. You and Abagond were the ones I recall tussling with the most”
I do remember that and I do consider it a somewhat separate argument from what is going on now. I hold no bitterness about that earlier discussion and bear you no ill will about it. If you feel otherwise, please let me know. While you didn’t convince me, you did open some room in my mind for doubt, and you would probably be amused if you could hear how many times since then I have thought to myself, “If the Illuminati or whoever really are running things and did that on purpose, apparently their end goals would be thus and thus.”
I do feel very strongly about the right to vote, my obligation to practice that right, and my debt to ancestors who marched in the streets, picketed the White House, and went to prison to obtain that right. If my vote counts for nothing else, it is still a sacred offering to their memory.
I don’t disagree with anything you wrote about disenfranchisement, voting abnormalities, rigged machines, etc. We just disagree on the underlying forces behind them. I believe they are underhanded attempts by corrupt politicians to prevent certain populations from voting so that the results of the election are more likely (but not guaranteed) to go the way one side wants. I tend to think if there is a puppet master pulling all the strings, there would be no need for obvious shenanigans which sometimes fail or backfire.
I don’t think either of us will ever persuade the other to their way of thinking, but I can agree to disagree on this. The exchange was intellectually stimulating and has kept me thinking about it ever since.
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nomad, I haven’t a clue what an aspersion zombie is. All I know is that you are intent on pushing a Trump is the lesser evil line here. You expressed the pious wish that Trump would deviate from standard US bullying, I helpfully pointed out that he sounded like the typical US a**hole on Cuba! Make of that fact what you will. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/02/maurico-claver-carone-cuba-donald-trump/94816102/
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gro jo
you have a beam in your eye.
Trump is the lesser evil as I and others have amply demonstrated. that doesn’t mean he isn’t evil. as I said before and as abagond illustrated the difference between the two is like the difference between king kong and god effing zilla. I never expressed a wish, pious or otherwise but right now I do wish you’d stop pulling this bs out of thin air. I merely stated as I stated what Trump had said. you insipidly inferred that because I said what Trump had said that I was holding him up as some kind of hero. that’s all on you. why the hell don’t you cut out the bs?
I said you were an aspersion CASTING zombie, you idiot. that is a zombie that casts aspersions. a zombie is a person who doesn’t think. to cast aspersions is to try to disparage someone with false claims.
so he sounds like an a-hole on cuba. what is that to me?
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” I hold no bitterness about that earlier discussion and bear you no ill will about it.”
Ditto. Even with this current debate re so called Blue Pill consumers and so-called (I have to make sure I say “so-called” twice for the crafty people…) Trump supporters I have no bitterness with you.
“I do feel very strongly about the right to vote, my obligation to practice that right, and my debt to ancestors who marched in the streets, picketed the White House, and went to prison to obtain that right. If my vote counts for nothing else, it is still a sacred offering to their memory.”
Many people feel exactly or close to that.
People should be allowed to practice whatever religion/doctrine they believe in as long as it doesn’t bring “harm” to others. The problem is that’s open to an increasingly wide interpretation. That said, I believe in everyone’s right to choose for him/herself which color pill to ingest. 🙂
“I believe they are underhanded attempts by corrupt politicians to prevent certain populations from voting so that the results of the election are more likely (but not guaranteed) to go the way one side wants. I tend to think if there is a puppet master pulling all the strings, there would be no need for obvious shenanigans which sometimes fail or backfire.”
I see it as a combination of both forces. An increasingly bad mixture of the two levels of power. The master still permits the slave some advantages (perks) for the slave’s dedication (service) to the master. The master controls the boiling temperatures of the pots the frogs are sitting in. Otherwise the frogs will sense the overwhelming heat and jump out before they’re fully cooked! That’s kinda how I see it.
“I don’t think either of us will ever persuade the other to their way of thinking, but I can agree to disagree on this.”
I don’t think either one of us was expecting the other to completely agree. Nonetheless, I witnessed some of your understanding and reasonableness on threads where you wasn’t babysitting kiwi or that green wee laddie, ie the reparations thread where you explained some basic things to Zoe.
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@ Fan
Thank you for your kind words. Serious question: Do you believe it does harm to practice my “doctrine” (or what have you) on voting? Does it harm anyone if I take voting seriously, and if so, how?
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“so he sounds like an a-hole on cuba. what is that to me?”
It makes you an idiot who confuses the bs he writes with reality. Your whole lesser evil argument in favor of Trump is as stupid as such claims on behalf of HRC. Is that clear enough for you. Why the hell does your hero need so many Pentagon welfare recipients, i.e. generals, on his staff if he plans to take the USA out of the interventionist game? Why is he provoking China by acting like Taiwan is an independent nation? Is he going to sign a peace treaty with North Korea, or is he going to increase the regime change program started by Bill Clinton? Hey, what is that to you? It only shows you up as the phony you are. Sorry for the interruption, carry on pushing bs HRC conspiracy theories.
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@ Solitaire
“Serious question: Do you believe it does harm to practice my “doctrine” (or what have you) on voting? Does it harm anyone if I take voting seriously, and if so, how?”
Serious answer: No. At least not in a true “representative” style of government. According to my extremely lacking knowledge & understanding of the constitution, the founders tried to set up a system where the majority of the people’s desires would not become the sole basis for any law. Since I haven’t studied law, I could be way off here.
However, another answer could be YES,!!! In a majority wins (referendum type) election where each individual vote counts for or against a particular policy, issue or new law – the outcome of an array of votes for or against whatever can be harmful.
An easy example of how voting could harm others (God forbid that this should ever come to a vote) would be putting an organization like NAMBLA in the ballot for legalization, thereby making it legal for pedophile adult men to have sexual relations with boys.
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@ Fan
Thank you for your serious answer. I understand your points, and I don’t disagree. However, I was attempting to ask something more specific and failed to word my question clearly, so if you will bear with me, let me try to rephrase:
Assuming that your red pill view is correct, that the elections (at least at the presidential level) are rigged to produce a predetermined outcome, does it harm anyone if I vote and take my voting seriously?
I suppose it could be said that I harm myself through a colossal waste of time and effort, but there are worse things than voting I could waste my time doing that could cause, for example, considerable harm to my liver.
Does it hurt anyone else or anything if I swallow the blue pill and believe my vote actually counts?
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gro jo
you are deep into whatever you’re deep into. why you keep dragging me into it I don’t know. “my hero” “China” “Pentagon welfare recipiants”
WTF or you talking about? “Why is he provoking China by acting like Taiwan is an independent nation?” How the hell would I know?
All of this bs you keep pulling out of thin air “makes you the idiot who confuses the bs he writes with reality”
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“you are deep into whatever you’re deep into. why you keep dragging me into it I don’t know.”
It’s called reality. You should try it sometime.
” “my hero” “China” “Pentagon welfare recipiants”
WTF or you talking about? “Why is he provoking China by acting like Taiwan is an independent nation?” How the hell would I know?”
A frank admission of your abysmal ignorance. We’re making progress.
“All of this bs you keep pulling out of thin air “makes you the idiot who confuses the bs he writes with reality””
Quoting me will win you no favors from me. Thanks for the flattery though.
One tiny quibble, recipient is spelled with an “e” not an “a” as in your pseudo quotation of what I wrote.
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One question. With the recount and all. Lemme hear you.
Who’s down with HRC?
(https://youtu.be/-SZN_LnBeJ8)
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Weird.
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@ Solitaire
“Assuming that your red pill view is correct, that the elections (at least at the presidential level) are rigged to produce a predetermined outcome, does it harm anyone if I vote and take my voting seriously?”
Just to be clear, my view is that nothing substantial for the good of the people changes. More freedoms aren’t gained, no less military spending, no less time spent occupying foreign lands, no weapons exchanged for green living technologies, no significant increase in wages, or lower rents and mortgages or taxes, no new breakthrough technologies that benefits the ordinary person (not consumer). Things stay pretty much the same or they get worse. Repressive. And the majority of people don’t seem to be getting any smarter/wiser!
If people see otherwise, they’ve bought into the distractions (smoke and mirrors display) set before them to sell the idea that all is still wonderful while behind the scenes are insatiable people like the Clintons dismantling (taking) everything/anything they can steal to put into their own pockets.
“Does it hurt anyone else or anything if I swallow the blue pill and believe my vote actually counts?”
No. It hurts nothing except maybe your ability to later digest a red pill, imo.
But who am I to say that you couldn’t have a paradigm shift (awakening) later somewhere down the road?? It doesn’t happen a lot, but I think/hope it still happens for at least a few.
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@ Nomad
“Who’s down with HRC?”
Not Bill!!!
I wonder if Bill wrote these lyrics?? lol
OPP, how can I explain it
I’ll take you frame by frame it
To have y’all jumpin’ shall we singin’ it
O is for Other, P is for People scratchin’ temple
The last P, well, that’s not that simple
It’s sorta like another way to call a cat a kitten
It’s five little letters that are missin’ here
You get on occasion at the other party
As a game ‘n it seems I gotta start to explainin’
Bust it
You ever had a girl and met her on a nice hello
You get her name and number and then you feelin’ real mellow
You get home, wait a day, she’s what you want to know about
Then you call up and it’s her girlfriend or her cousin’s house
It’s not a front, F to the R to the O to the N to the T
It’s just her boyfriend’s at her house (Boy, that’s what is scary)
It’s OPP, time other people’s what you get it
There’s no room for relationship there’s just room to hit it
How many brothers out there know just what I’m gettin’ at
Who thinks it’s wrong ’cause I’m splittin’ and co-hittin’ at
Well if you do, that’s OPP and you’re not down with it
….
Naughty By Nature (Code name for the Clinton Syndicate)
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Gro jo
That’s the stupidest kind of argument. Misinterpret and misrepresent what someone says and then precede to argue endlessly about your misrepresentation. It’s called the straw man argument. It seems to be a favorite on this blog. You, Sharina, Linda. Abagond too, but at least he doesn’t go on endlessly about it. Quit wasting my time.
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I know I spelled proceed wrong. call the grammar police.
actually its worse than that because you’re arguing about what you imagine I believe based on your misrepresentation and distortion of what I said. get help. stupidity does not have to be terminal.
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“Gro jo
That’s the stupidest kind of argument. Misinterpret and misrepresent what someone says and then precede to argue endlessly about your misrepresentation.”
BULLSH*T. You don’t even understand what you wrote: “Glass half full. Trump says his admin will stop tumbling regimes and creating chaos in foreign lands. I hope he means it. I could never imagine Hillary saying the same thing.”
“I hope he means it” is as sweet, earnest and naïve an expression of a pious wish one could hope for. You may not like my characterization of it as naïve, that’s your problem not mine. You were quoted accurately, hence, no misrepresentation and no straw man argument.
“Quit wasting my time.”
Only if you say you’re sorry and admit that you are a naïf.
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By the way, you seem to confuse “precede” with “proceed”. Allow me to help you out here.
“Misinterpret and misrepresent what someone says and then precede to argue endlessly about your misrepresentation.”
precede is inappropriate in the sentence quoted.
(pre·cede
prəˈsēd/
verb
verb: precede; 3rd person present: precedes; past tense: preceded; past participle: preceded; gerund or present participle: preceding
come before (something) in time.
“a gun battle had preceded the explosions”
synonyms: go/come before, lead (up) to, pave/prepare the way for, herald, introduce, usher in
“commercials preceded the movie”
antonyms: follow
come before in order or position.
“take time to read the chapters that precede the recipes”
synonyms: foregoing, previous, prior, former, precedent, earlier, above, aforementioned, antecedent; More
formalanterior, prevenient
“refer to the preceding chart”
go in front or ahead of.
“he let her precede him through the gate”
synonyms: go ahead of, go in front of, go before, go first, lead the way
“Catherine preceded him into the studio”)
Proceed was the word you were looking for. (pro·ceed
prəˈsēd,prōˈsēd/
verb
verb: proceed; 3rd person present: proceeds; past tense: proceeded; past participle: proceeded; gerund or present participle: proceeding
begin or continue a course of action.
“we can proceed with our investigation”
synonyms: begin, make a start, get going, move, set something in motion; More
take action, act, go on, go ahead, make progress, make headway
“she was uncertain how to proceed”
go ahead, carry on, go on, continue, keep on, get on, get ahead;
pursue, prosecute
“we should proceed with the talks”
antonyms: stop
move forward, especially after reaching a certain point.
“the ship could proceed to Milwaukee”
synonyms: go, make one’s way, advance, move, progress, carry on, press on, push on
“he proceeded down the road”
antonyms: stop
do something as a natural or seemingly inevitable next step.
“opposite the front door was a staircase, which I proceeded to climb”
Law
start a lawsuit against someone.
“he may still be able to proceed against the contractor under the common law negligence rules”
synonyms: take someone to court, start/take proceedings against, start an action against, make a case against, sue
“there is not enough evidence to proceed against him”
(of an action) be started.
“negotiations must proceed without delay”
(of an action) be carried on or continued.
“as the excavation proceeds, the visible layers can be recorded and studied”
originate from.
“his claim that all power proceeded from God”
synonyms: originate, spring, stem, come, derive, arise, issue, flow, emanate
“all power proceeds from God”
Origin
late Middle English: from Old French proceder, from Latin procedere, from pro- ‘forward’ + cedere ‘go.’
Translate proceed to
Use over time for: proceed)
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“You don’t even understand what you wrote:”
No Groji. You don’t understand what I wrote. That’s the problem. You misinterpret misrepresent and distort and mistake the convolutions of your imagination for reality. Don’t try to hold me responsible for your delusions.
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So, you want to keep fighting? Very well. I’ve already proven that your claim of having been misunderstood is nonsense. Show me what else you’ve got?
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@Fan …
As you mention Matari I wish he would comment. I thought you were Matari returned when you first started to comment. I miss him a lot. Kwamla and King too.
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Gro jo
“So, you want to keep fighting? Very well. I’ve already proven that your claim of having been misunderstood is nonsense.”
You’ve shown nothing but your ability to react to a straw man that you yourself created. And you don’t even seem to be winning against him. Nevertheless I do marvel at your ability to go on and on over nonsense. And grammar.
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@gro jo
“You were quoted accurately, hence, no misrepresentation and no straw man argument.”—Exactly. If anyone is using straw man arguments it is him when he attempt to try to get out of his bs claims.
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@ Sharina
“I miss him a lot. Kwamla and King too.”
Thanks for the compliment. I am a Fan of all those folks including: Sepultura13, Demenera, Bulanik, Franklin, Nyquist, Valarina, Sam (from Finland) and BG (??) the white compatriot drummer now residing in Brazil. Truthbetold was a favorite, as was UglyBlackJohn, Siditty, Macon D. Even Jas0nBurns and dave was entertaining from time to time. Wish we could see more of Mack Lyons but I get that not everyone has disposable time on their hands.
Nice trip down memory lane!
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@ Sharina
Thanks for the compliment! I miss them all too. A longer reply is trapped in moderation.
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gro jo
“nono, you mad? I quoted you in extensio. Please show me and everybody where I misquoted you. If you can, you’ll get a fulsome apology from me. You’ve been making a lot of noise, upsetting the good people here. I asked you to explain the policy of your hero, Trump, and you get offended by my simple request, why?”
Offended? Who’s offended? I’m just pointing out your error. This is straw man stuff. Trump is not my hero (that’s a straw man argument) and I have no idea what his policy is. Why you’re asking me to explain it is what’s weird. Why don’t you ask Trump what his policy is? Better yet why don’t you create a straw man Trump and ask him. You can make him say whatever you like. I didn’t say you misquoted me (another ancillary straw man argument) . I said you misunderstood misinterpreted distorted and started debating a straw man of your own creation. That is evident to anyone following this exchange
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you can take that off the table, groji.
I didn’t say it was unfair. just idiotic
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groji
comment in moderation for some reason
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So let’s dust the straw off of the comment you keep droning on and on about.
Glass half full. Trump says his admin will stop tumbling regimes and creating chaos in foreign lands. I hope he means it. I could never imagine Hillary saying the same thing.
Nothing about it says pious or Trump is my hero or that I have any inside knowledge about what he’s planning. All of that cacophony is a result of your misinterpretation, misrepresentation and distortion and the convolutions of your own imagination. In short, it’s a straw man argument. No amount of repeating the same false accusations is going to change that.
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grojo
I have no idea what you’re talking about, but if it gives you satisfaction to dwell in that imaginary world, be my guest. The post speaks for itself. All of the assumptions and suppositions you have inferred from it is just noise.
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Lordy, you seem to be on an apology binge, have you finally, joined AA and resolved to give up alcohol? If you are, don’t you think you owe me an apology for all the name calling? THIS IS A JOKE. I’M JUST YANKING LORDY’S CHAIN.
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@sharinair…“You are in SC with me. How are things looking your way?”
Same sh*t different day, Sister. Apologize for the lateness of my reply but, I’ve been “in my feelings” way longer than I probably need to be here. See, the thing is, Republicans, just like the Democrats have long understood how to play us (Hell, I left home at 18 to go to college and Joe Riley was the newly-minted mayor. Came back in 2014, 40 years later — and he still was! — Until, of course, his protege was elected in November, thanks again to Blacks unwavering support! SMMFH
There does, however, seem to be some young Black millennials who are at least trying to bring some truth (not sure the village is totally paying attention, but — one can hope!). Here’s a video that was leaked this November of Charleston City Council Chairman (the son of the 22-year long, trying to be Joe Riley, mayor of North Charleston, Keith Summey!), Elliott Summey talking’ ’bout us Black folk: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UZfubU1UZQ&w=560&h=315) — Abagond, I hope you’ll go ahead and post this one because it speaks VOLUMES about what white folk think about us, and how our “faith” in Democrats play into that damned game!
Once he got in as a Democrat — like his father — this is what he did: http://www.postandcourier.com/politics/state_politics/elliott-summey-to-join-republican-party/article_c616acf2-1357-5507-ae8f-b8727427bf11.html
Family (and I call y’all that with NO reservation because THIS blog has been my family when my own family, here in SC was not), we’re being played from both ends — Democrats, Republicans — SAME THING! Can we stop fighting one another long enough to 1) realize that fact, and 2) do something about it???
And Family, while The NY Daily News has never been my go-to news source, may I suggest you read the link Herneith posted upthread? I know the thread is long so Imma help y’all out and repost it — because it’s important: http://herneith.d.pr/Pv5u
Fam, thanx for keeping me sane an insane world! “Preciate all of you…
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@Deb
Thanks for sharing that link.
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@Deb
Unsurprising. I’ve thought of the Dems and the Repubs as a White Supremacist uniparty for years now.
The Trump/Pence years will pull the curtain back on all types of White bigotry that Black people ignored during the “lesser evilism” games of the past 30 years. Now all sorts of dirty underwear will be in public view.
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@Afrofem…“I’ve thought of the Dems and the Repubs as a White Supremacist uniparty for years now.”
Ain’t that some sh*t??!! The acceptance of hubris boggles my mind! Not sure who leaked it, nor why (got to always wonder, cui bono??) — but you’d think the community would say, “Dammit — we got played!!! But that’s not happenin’ here — despite the dirty underwear being aired in public view, now or later. I’m so undone.
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how’s that break from trump
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@Deb
Thanks for the sources. Even in your most down moments your words are powerful.
Democrats lack of efforts in helping the black community and using them for votes has long been a game play in action. This is why I hope blacks get out of the two party voting circus.
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@sharinair…Thanx, Sister, just trying to share what I see and hear as well as learn something along the way.
I’m sure as hayell with you on us getting out of that, “two party voting circus” because it’s suckin’ the very life out of us!! Maybe it’s because I’m gettin’ older and a lot wiser now (thanks to this, and some other sites I frequent), but I see the havoc being wreaked by our being pulled this way and that a lot more clearly. Seems like we’ve forgotten how beautifully vibrant, industrious and smart a people from whom we came. And I can even understand how we got here (that “circus” playing a huge part in the confusion that makes the forgetting all the more easy). But, I can’t understand why we can’t reach back and lean on who we once were to move forward — in the spirit of Sankofa (http://sankofadesign.tumblr.com/page/2).
When, just before his first inauguration, in response to a question from George Stephanopoulos about whether he planned to do anything about Shrub & Co. having broken numerous laws following 9/11, the Changeling said, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards.” (http://www.salon.com/2009/01/12/obama_prosecutor/) — he confirmed EVERYTHING I ever thought about his being one of the biggest reasons we’d be stuck, for however long he’d be president. And he has been (along with his party).
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