“Investigation of the Baltimore Police Department” (2016) is a 14-month study of the BPD done by the US Department of Justice (DOJ) in the wake of the Freddie Gray killing.
The DOJ concluded:
“We found that BPD has engaged in a pattern or practice of serious violations of the U.S. Constitution and federal law that has disproportionately harmed Baltimore’s African-American community and eroded the public’s trust in the police.”
In other words: what Black Baltimore has known all along.
Racial profiling: Blacks make up 63% of Baltimore, yet account for:
- 84% of all stops;
- 91% of charges for “failure to obey” and trespassing;
- 95% of those stopped at least 10 times;
- 100% of those stopped at least 13 times.
Blacks are arrested for drugs five times more often than Whites, even though both use drugs at about the same rate.
Blacks are searched at a higher rate than Whites – even though they are less likely to be found with anything. One woman was publicly strip searched after being stopped for – a missing headlight.
The racial profiling is so over-the-top that one fill-in-the-blank template for an arrest report already had the race and gender filled in: black male.
Meanwhile:
“Community members living in the City’s wealthier and largely white neighborhoods told us that officers tend to be respectful and responsive to their needs”
Stuff police say:
- “Lock up all the black hoodies,” ordered one commander.
- “Do not treat criminals like citizens,” said an officer on Facebook.
- The N-word: There are at least 60 citizen reports of the police calling Blacks the N-word – yet only one police report brings it up.
Right in front of one DOJ investigator, a police supervisor told an officer to “make something up” when asked what reason he should give to break up a peaceful assembly of Black males.
You can be arrested for:
- standing near a public housing unit without a “valid reason.”
- sitting on your front steps.
- wearing a hoodie with your hands in your pockets in the dead of winter. If you resist, the police will beat you up and tase you and send you to the hospital – and then report that they showed “great restraint and professionalism.”
In fact, you can be arrested for little to no reason at all: many police reports do not give a good reason.
Unnecessary force is used by the police on children, on the mentally ill and on people who were not a threat at all but maybe said something an officer did not like. One police report listed a Black man’s weapon as “his mouth”.
Structural failure:
“BPD’s systemic constitutional and statutory violations are rooted in structural failures.”
and:
“BPD teaches officers to use aggressive tactics. BPD’s trainings fuel an ‘us vs. them’ mentality we saw some officers display toward community members, alienating the civilians they are meant to serve.”
Officers are badly trained and not held to account.
Reform: In the coming weeks Baltimore and the DOJ will hammer out a set of reforms that the courts can enforce.
– Abagond, 2016.
See also:
- The full DOJ report – PDF, 164 pages
- The DOJ report on the Ferguson police – the same exercise done on Ferguson after Michael Brown was killed
- Freddie Gray
- other views of the Baltimore police:
- Michael Wood – a retired officer
- Marilyn Mosby – after failing to convict Freddie Gray’s killers
- The Wire – a White liberal view
- more on Baltimore:
- The N-word
- The police
- slave patrols
574
Abagond 
the DOJ seems to be the only entity able to tell the truth recently.
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Was there any analysis to how the current situation came about?
eg, how much was traced to policies established when Martin O’Malley was mayor?
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@ jefe
They blamed the police culture mainly on the zero tolerance policies of the 1990s and 2000s, which he championed.
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The police are behaving like an occupying force not a public service agency that exists for the benefit of the community. They’re like a Trojan horse that’s supposed to “protect and serve”, in theory, but in reality they’re an oppressive presence.
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I saw in other threads many commenters criticizing the Obama’s administration inaction regarding police abuses against Black citizens in some cities of USA.
This post shows that, despite that, Obama’s Department of Justice tried something to correct those behaviors, or, at least, set some precedent that can be followed in the future by DOJ’s of future administrations, of how to deal with such situations.
Not everything is dark under the sun!
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“Reform: In the coming weeks Baltimore and the DOJ will hammer out a set of reforms that the courts can enforce.”
Until the DOJ complete action and places the punishment on the city this matter remains open.
Hopefully the DOJ will place some meaningful burden upon the city to cause some corrective action.
What is the racial makeup of the city and can the Black leaders use the DOJ report to affect change.
The southern states and the major metropolitan areas where Blacks are concentrated produce the majority of the statistical numbers for reports. Until the Blacks disburse (merge) into the majority of the population they are going to be a statistical target. It is difficult to calculate statistics when you are including Black on Black crime, concentration of poverty which causes crime and other racial causes.
What are the statistics in a high income Black neighborhood? Are they equal or higher than a similar White neighborhood with an identical income (if there is such a means of evaluating.
How often are Blacks victimized by Black authority figures.
Just what makes one person learn to “mistreat” individuals other than experience gained while on the job. Three Blacks were a part of the Baltimore 6.
What is the normal action and reaction when the authority figure comes into contact with the citizen, and how does this impact an individual on a day by day bases over a career of an individual.
How is it going to be possible to increase the wealth and modify the social mores of individuals.
Nothing reported in the DOJ report as outlined by Abagon was unknown. I did not read the report.
There has to be a modification of all individuals involved.
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Jared Taylor, David Duke, Stormfront, The Daily Stormer, The Daily Wire, Ambrose Kane and the rest of the nationalist groups are well-known for mentioning DOJ reports on Black crime but will NEVER mention the DOJ report on the Baltimore Police Department. We know why.
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Baltimore police sound like the police in developing countries. When we had an authoritarian government over here. you could not even give the president’s picture an evil eye because the secret police were everywhere. Demonstrations against the government were violently shut down and people disappeared without a trace. You could be arrested for pointing threateningly at the president’s picture, speaking against him in public and holding peaceful demonstrations. They could also plant drugs in your car and throw you in prison for years. Seems like African Americans are living in a parallel distopian world.
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The militarization of the police actually began in the 1980s – Reagan’s war on drugs, which was a code for Reagan’s ‘War on Black people’. When I was a young teen (in the mid-1980s) in South Los Angeles (formerly South-Central L.A.) LAPD, which was headed by a well-known white racist police chief named Darly Gates, was the FIRST police-military in America. LAPD’s infamous battering ram destroyed lots of homes in black neighborhoods – unfortunately, some of these homes were mistaken for drug houses (“rock houses”) when in fact they were ordinary, working family homes. The 2015 movie “Straight Outta Compton” showed moviegoers the battering ram destroying a “crack house,” but in reality there was no battering ram used by Compton’s Police Department (which was eventually replaced by L.A. County Sheriff Department/ “Compton’s Sheriff Department”), it was only the military of the LAPD that used battering rams aka “house destroyers” in L.A. County.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJFYC23UcAAk_2v.png:small
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Incredible!
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Michael Cooper
Jared Taylor, David Duke, Stormfront, The Daily Stormer, The Daily Wire, Ambrose Kane and the rest of the nationalist groups are well-known for mentioning DOJ reports on Black crime but will NEVER mention the DOJ report on the Baltimore Police Department. We know why.
No question about it. The support of white supremacy greatly outweighs the need to see the truth. And even if they did see the report, they will deny its relevancy and refute its findings.
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@Abagond
This passage:
You can be arrested for:
❖standing near a public housing unit without a “valid reason.”
❖sitting on your front steps.
❖wearing a hoodie with your hands in your pockets in the dead of winter. If you resist, the police will beat you up and tase you and send you to the hospital – and then report that they showed “great restraint and professionalism.”
In fact, you can be arrested for little to no reason at all: many police reports do not give a good reason.
❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖❖
This touches on themes of a recent article entitled Anatomy of a Neoliberal Racist Killing Machine by Ramor Ryan. Ryan discusses a book of essays by various authors about the policing of poor and Black communities in the US and abroad. The essays from leading scholars, activists, social movement organizers, and journalists, is called, Policing the Planet: Why the Policing Crisis Led to Black Lives Matter. Some of the many ideas quoted by Ryan describe how policing in the US,
http://www.blackagendareport.com/racist_cop_killing_machines
Former stable, working class neighborhoods turned open air prisons where angry, unemployed, frustrated and harassed people kill each other. The people are blamed for the social ills while no one discusses the source of the social ills.
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Good job on Baltimore DOJ. Now go to Atlanta, New York, LA, Chicago,Baton Rouge, Mississippi, Sacramento, Miami, Flint, Lancing, Decatur, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Virgina, ect, ect, ect.
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@ Atlanta Man
It is doing Chicago as we speak. Chicago is, if anything, worse than Baltimore.
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@ Afrofem
When I first heard about Aiyana Jones, that girl in Detroit killed by police, it sounded like something out of Iraq.
On the other hand, from what I gather, US police are far more undisciplined and fearful than US soldiers in enemy territory!
Thanks for the B.A.R. link.
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@ Allen Shaw
Sounds like you are trying to blame this all on Black people.
The police force is 40% or so Black. The police chief is often a Black person, but most of the top people are White men. They set the culture.
And, as I think we both know, Black cops can be worse than White cops. That hardly excuses the behaviour of either. Nor does it mean that race has nothing to do with it.
And, in the case of this report, the Baltimore police are way out of line for a Western democracy that is not under martial law. Freedom of speech and peaceable assembly (First Amendment) and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure (Fourth Amendment) are not respected by the Baltimore police when it comes to Black people.
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“Sounds like you are trying to blame this all on Black people.”
You actually chose to take the above from what I wrote?
Maybe you should have answered the questions.
When seeking a solution one has to look at all sides. No it is not a Black problem it is a social problem!
You do well presenting the Black side; however you seem to be reluctant to see any part of the problem which may be caused by Blacks. Please “re-read” with my extra comments added.
“Hopefully the DOJ will place some meaningful burden upon the city to cause some corrective action. (Not blaming Blacks)
What is the racial makeup of the city and can the Black leaders use the DOJ report to affect change. (Not blaming Blacks)
The southern states and the major metropolitan areas where Blacks are concentrated produce the majority of the statistical numbers for reports. Until the Blacks disburse (merge) into the majority of the population they are going to be a statistical target. It is difficult to calculate statistics when you are including Black on Black crime, concentration of poverty which causes crime and other racial causes. (Not blaming Blacks – stating a fact)
What are the statistics in a high income Black neighborhood? Are they equal or higher than a similar White neighborhood with an identical income (if there is such a means of evaluating. (Not Blaming Blacks – seeking facts)
How often are Blacks victimized by Black authority figures. (Question – Is it true that Black Police Chiefs are really helpless?)
Just what makes one person learn to “mistreat” individuals other than experience gained while on the job. Three Blacks were a part of the Baltimore 6
. (No blame just stating a fact one Black was a Sergeant – Is it true that Sergeants are helpless?)
What is the normal action and reaction when the authority figure comes into contact with the citizen, and how does this impact an individual on a day by day bases over a career of an individual. (What about you – do you come in contact every day with the criminal elements either Black, White Yellow or (Red))? How do you think you would react?
How is it going to be possible to increase the wealth and modify the social mores of individuals. (Not blaming the Black – blaming the social mores)
****************
“The police force is 40% or so Black. The police chief is often a Black person, but most of the top people are White men. They set the culture”
In any community where there are vast numbers of Blacks, explain why the top people are White men. Please justify your remarks with facts. What are the Black people doing letting White men hold those positions? Why don’t they vote them out of office?
Do Black people in most communities participate in community action programs, and when they do do they see changes?
Do Blacks know as much about the political affairs in there communities as they know about the sports figures in National sports and musicians? Or do they believe they have no voice in politics?
I am aware of Blacks that seem to be unable to read or write yet know hundreds of sports figures and their stats. They do not seem to know who is representing them in the local, state or federal government. Many Blacks can speak about the personal affairs of Black musicians and actors yet as stated above do not know about local political affairs.
Do you believe that Blacks should at least know who is representing them?
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@Allen Shaw
” I am aware of Blacks that seem to be unable to read or write yet know hundreds of sports figures and their stats. They do not seem to know who is representing them in the local, state or federal government. Many Blacks can speak about the personal affairs of Black musicians and actors yet as stated above do not know about local political affairs.
Do you believe that Blacks should at least know who is representing them?”
I am aware of White, Latino and Asian Americans who are barely literate, yet are immersed in celebrity culture, sports culture and musical culture. They also don’t know or care who is representing them in in local, state or federal government.
Yet no one ever, ever, ever suggests that they deserve to be harassed, humiliated and brutalized in their own neighborhoods or anywhere they travel for work or pleasure. Everyone, including Allen Shaw feels that they have rights as citizens, due process and equal protection under the law.
Only Black people are held to such low esteem by the majority of the population (including Allen Shaw) that they are blamed for every ill visited upon them. There is rarely an understanding or discussion about the Big Picture; the systems and motivations of the people who actually run this country and most of the global economies.
Many people ignore cause and effect on a large scale. They fail to ask the hard questions about this society like:
❖Why after decades of steep declines in crime does the US imprison more people on the planet that any other country?
❖Why is every eighth person behind bars on the globe an African American?
❖Who benefits from a massive Police and Prison Industrial Complex both locally and nationally?
America only consists of 5% of the world population, yet we have almost 25% of the world’s prison population. We have 725 prisoners per 100,000 citizens, which is the highest in the world. The world average is 145 per 100,000 citizens. Nearly 2.2 million Americans are behind bars.
The racial disparities within our system are even more appalling. Together, African American and Hispanics comprised 58% of all prisoners in 2008, even though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately one quarter of the US population. Five times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites.
Those numbers are outrageous. 725 prisoners per 100,000 citizen in the US versus 145 prisoners per 100,000 citizens on average globally tells you a lot about US society: control, punishment and greed. Those who think it has no ripple effect on the rest of society are blind to the ways that America resembles an open air prison more and more each year.
It would seem that being wilfully obtuse is not just a White Supremacist malady, it also afflicts Black people steeped in respectability politics.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/12/26/wilfully-obtuse/
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@Abagond
A culture of impunity is a terrifying thing.
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I always wonder where the police officers live. Especially the Black officers I assume live in middle-class Black neighbourhoods, so aren’t they part of the communitiy that has such a strained relationship with the police?
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@ Allen Shaw
What Afrofem said. You are playing respectability politics:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/respectability-politics/
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@ Kartoffel
In the case of poor Black neighbourhoods, most police officers and their commanding officers come from outside.
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“I am aware of White, Latino and Asian Americans who are barely literate, yet are immersed in celebrity culture, sports culture and musical culture. They also don’t know or care who is representing them in in local, state or federal government.”
So we are having a conversation about Blacks and you want to talk about other races. That is your choice; however it has nothing to do with my comments.
You will not find any remark that I have ever made that compares the treatment of Blacks with any other group.
I offered some thought about Blacks because the subject that I thought was being discussed was Blacks.
You have attempted to imply that I am prejudice in my thinking; however you cannot actually find any of my comments which would support your accusations. You attempt to shut someone out of a conversation by such tactics, yet it is not helpful to improving the position of Blacks. You just discourage others from making any useful comments.
Finally, until conversations can be held without someone implying others short comings, or using some negative academic terminology, nothing is going to be accomplished. Some of us are not PhD’s or hold high level college degrees.
Remember it was someone else that stated that Black police were controlled by Whites, not me.
I will say good bye now. I have made an attempt to add some thoughts to your page; however it appears as thought you only are looking for agreement with you.
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@Allen Shaw,
Oh c’mon, 5 of the top 10 wealthiest black neighborhoods in the USA are in Prince George’s County, MD (the wealthiest majority black county in the nation), yet for a time in the 1990s, the county led the nation in police brutality rates. It improved only after a DOJ probe. Even today, it is only second to Baltimore city in the state of Maryland.
A lot has been written about this county. Maybe you can look it up and seek some answers to your questions.
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@ Mr Shaw
“You will not find any remark that I have ever made that compares the treatment of Blacks with any other group.”
Oops! Is Kiwi no longer the sole DISINGENUOUS person flowing in and out of these threads? Or was it not you, Mr Shaw who made both the preceding and following quotes??
“In any community where there are vast numbers of Blacks, explain why the top people are White men. Please justify your remarks with facts. What are the Black people doing letting White men hold those positions? ”
Do you believe that it’s somehow Black people’s fault (as Afrofem reminds us) that five times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites??
“I will say good bye now. I have made an attempt to add some thoughts to your page …”
As usual (slippery) you won’t finish/complete/finalize your thoughts, but who can blame you when they’re so utterly far from reality. Farewell.
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Bottom line: For every Black person they stop and illegally detain; did they have probable cause? Numerous White offenders are going unnoticed. With this heroin epidemic, it will be interesting to see if the laws change exponentially, as it is ‘afflicting’ white middle to upper middle-class people. Don’t worry White folks; you will probably find some other way to feed it to Black people.
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@ Abagond
For poor neigbourhoods you are probably right. But as you pointed out a couple of times police brutaity affects middle-class Blacks as well and I think that lies at the heart of the bad relationship between Black Americans and the police. Police and the poor having a bad realtionship would be the most normal thing in the world.
That’s why I’m particulary interested in the relationship between Black officers and Black middle-class citizens. Other than with White officers and poor Blacks they seem to share a community.
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@Kartoffel
I can’t speak for others, but I will share my experiences. When I was younger and drove a 94 honda accord, I was stopped by a black officer and he did his job very well. He was polite and understanding and not remotely hot headed or rude. Amazing guy. Fast forward to recently, I now have a luxury car and was pulled over by a black cop for speeding. He was rude and arrogant and very suspicious. When he let me go he followed me until I reached my destination and attempted to follow me when I had left. All the time watching other cars speed by at speeds that he claimed to have pulled me over for.
The relationship of a black officer and a middle class black citizen is hit and miss. At times they seem to assume that you got what you have through drugs and feel that power of being an officer gives them a superiority over you.
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@Allen Shaw.
This ignorance is something the United States of America use to divide people. They don’t know the story of America in full details and think everybody is on equal footing from the get go when that simply is not the case. Those that lack the basic social history education will also lack critical thinking skills. Oh Obama is a Black President, everything is equal non-sense. They don’t comprehend the hidden agenda of putting as black president in office where you can commit other global crimes and atrocities or domestically with his face for reference to blame.
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@Allen Shaw
“You attempt to shut someone out of a conversation by such tactics, yet it is not helpful to improving the position of Blacks. You just discourage others from making any useful comments.”
Hmmm. That is an interesting assertion. As I see it, I have no power to encourage or discourage comments from Allen Shaw or anyone else who chooses to comment in this forum.
To me, a useful comment is one where, you actually do the work of answering your own questions and sharing your findings with the other commenters. That way all of us can learn from you. Your findings may be challenged. While challenge can be unpleasant, it is also a learning opportunity.
I agree and disagree with all of the other commenters. They agree and disagree with me. Sometimes that disagreement is pretty vehement. That doesn’t stop me from learning from them or seeing things in a whole different way. It is simply a part of the of learning process.
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“In any community where there are vast numbers of Blacks, explain why the top people are White men. Please justify your remarks with facts. What are the Black people doing letting White men hold those positions? ”
My question once again what are the Black people doing letting White men hold those positions? ” Why don’t they vote them out?
No matter what it takes, no matter how hard, register every eligible individual to vote! Or wring your hands and cry about how unfair life is. It is the choice that faces Black America today.
Just look at how you choose to attack me instead of getting out in the community and registering voters. I know “it is too hard, it is better to complain on paper, it is unfair that so much extra work has to be put into the movement.
Just to remind you the racial injustice has existed in this nation from 1621 onward. Without going to a lot of statistical counting almost three quarters of this nation, if not more is living today without a Black living within it community borders.
The struggle of the Black is basically a south eastern United States and major metropolitan area problem. Within the community Blacks have their own separate problems.
Once again please do not attack the messenger, make an attempts to see any positive thoughts that may be included in my remarks. Find a way to reach the three quarters of the nation who today continue to live with no real knowledge of the Black problem.
Maybe you may consider finding ways to disperse some of the Blacks from the area where they are in excess into the areas of the United States where there are no or very few Blacks.
I have a very thick skin so do not bother to raise foolish points about my position or character Read my words if I have not explained my thoughts point out the error; but do not bother to refer to me as some kind of (” *#*#). Those of you high academic level individuals need to learn to use smaller words instead of attempting to belittle those who have been in the fight for a very long time.
In the real world “Life is Not Fair”!
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@ Allen Shaw
What academic terminology did we use?
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@ Allen Shaw
In the case of Baltimore, the police are protected from local democratic control and accountability by LEOBR, the Law Enforcement Officers’ Bill of Rights. It is a law written by the police unions and passed at the state level by the White majority of Maryland in 1974. It was put in place to block attempts by Blacks to hold the police accountable for their crimes. Among its rights:
– An officer can refuse to be questioned for up to ten days. This allows officers time to make up lies that fit the known facts.
– An officer can only be questioned by fellow officers.
– An officer is to be disciplined by a trial board – made up of fellow officers.
Blacks have been trying to get it overturned but so far with no success. The city of Baltimore is 63% Black, but the state is only 30% Black.
Marilyn Mosby, who was elected by Black Baltimore, was unable to convict Freddie Gray’s killers in part because there is no way to independently investigate the police other than through a DOJ probe – the subject of this post.
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@ Allen Shaw
White people love to talk about the Wisdom of the Founding Fathers. That is easy for them to say when they are the majority.
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@ Allen Shaw
No, those are not the only two choices. There is at least a third: protest, which is what drove this issue up to the federal level. Voting helps, but by itself it will not fix this. See above.
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@ Kartoffel
I think it varies, as Jefe and Sharina showed. The only place I have lived where I did not have to worry about the police was a middle-class Black town with a Black-majority police force.
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My first comment 11August 2016
“Reform: In the coming weeks Baltimore and the DOJ will hammer out a set of reforms that the courts can enforce.”
Until the DOJ complete action and places the punishment on the city this matter remains open.
Hopefully the DOJ will place some meaningful burden upon the city to cause some corrective action
Did any of you who are commenting read this part of my first comment on this subject.
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@Allen Shaw
“Maybe you may consider finding ways to disperse some of the Blacks from the area where they are in excess into the areas of the United States where there are no or very few Blacks.”
I see this issue differently. To me, Black dispersal is not a solution to a problem that resides in the heart of White people. The onus is on them to do the work of facing the reality of who is an American and learning to live peacefully with other Americans.
Would you make such a drastic suggestion to Jewish Americans? Latino Americans? Korean Americans?
Should they also voluntarily destroy their communities to comfort White Supremacists? More importantly, would they? I think not.
Dr. Mindy Thompson Fullilove wrote an entire book on the negative consequences of neighborhood destruction and dispersal. The book, Root Shock: How Tearing Up City Neighborhoods Hurts America, and What We Can Do About It goes into great depth on the social, emotional and economic harm of Negro Removal.
Root Shock, gives a full accounting of what is lost when communities are destroyed:
http://www.newvillagepress.net/book/?GCOI=97660100655590&
http://www.rootshock.org/Home
The destruction of Black economic districts, social networks and historical sites also lead to misplaced anger. That anger may be the fuel behind the explosion of domestic violence, assaults and homicides in many Black communities.
Black communities need healing and cohesion, not continued destruction. There are no places where Black people are “in excess”———–except in the prison system. I’m all for dispersing Black people in prison—– back to their families and communities.
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@ Allen Shaw
“Maybe you may consider finding ways to disperse some of the Blacks from the area where they are in excess into the areas of the United States where there are no or very few Blacks.”
I’m curious whether you have ever lived in one of these areas or communities.
I grew up in a rural area where there were no black residents. I remember very vividly when the first black family moved into our school district. There was a lot of nervous talk among the white grown-ups, and they questioned us high schoolers intently concerning what we thought about having black classmates. Turned out they were a very nice, respectable, middle-class black family whose kids were excellent students and popular at school.
But here’s the catch: this positive experience didn’t really change the way most of the white people in town thought about black people in general. This nice respectable black family was quickly categorized as “an exception to the rule.” People would say: “I think of them as white” and “They’re different from those n-words in the city.”
I do think that knowing the family did help a few white people in town (especially the teens) to begin to question some of the prejudices we’d been taught. Overall, though, their presence didn’t do much to change the racist attitudes of most of the white people because they were seen as an exception. I expect it was also an isolating experience for the black family, and they most likely got some strong racist treatment whenever they ventured to other lily-white towns in the area where they would not have been a known quantity.
Based on my own personal experience, I’m not sure what you believe would be accomplished by such a dispersal. But I’m willing to listen to your thoughts on the subject and any experiences you might have along these lines.
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Well with such high level professionals recommending that Blacks remain in their comfortable environment, I will stop suggesting any such foolish thoughts of seeking their fortune elsewhere.
Please forgive me for my stupidity.
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“Based on my own personal experience, I’m not sure what you believe would be accomplished by such a dispersal.”
The unemployment rate in most Black communities ranges in the neighborhood of 25 to 30%. Many Black youths cannot obtain a job performing any service, they cannot gain any work experience and they see no future. If they were to be living in a community that had a low unemployment rate they may have an opportunity to have employment.
For those individuals who prefer to have a massive Black community of perhaps 20 or 30 million people the idea of dispersal is repulsive. With a Black birthrate being approximately 2 to 4 children per family versus the White population of approximately 1.8 children per family within 30 or 40 years the entire South Eastern United States will be predominantly Black. Many Whites will flee which will leave that part of the country in the hands of the very wealthy Whites and Blacks. Perhaps this is the goal of those individuals who desire the current circumstances. With the education levels of many Blacks rising there is little doubt that there will be many successful Blacks to take on the roles of leaders. This may be a goal which some are seeking.
In my mind I had failed to think in those terms. To some my thinking is ridiculous. I have always thought in terms of the integration of Blacks into the American society. It appears as though this is a failure on my part according to the comments that I have seen. I have never expected for Whites to change their attitude towards Blacks I have merely thought of the opportunities that are available to Blacks when they educate themselves properly and they live where there are jobs to be obtained.
I do not expect that Blacks and Whites will someday sit around the table singing wonderful songs of togetherness. While some will others will not. The question is will Blacks be employed and utilized at their capability levels.
The price that one pays for progress is the unpleasant giving up comfort for long-term gains and has been the goal of the black community since 1865.
I am unfamiliar with this new goal of separation.
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Reblogged this on ?verything!.
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@Allen Shaw
” I have always thought in terms of the integration of Blacks into the American society.”
Ah yes, the 1965 Integration Dream.
Pinch yourself and wake up, Allen Shaw. This is 2016 and the 1965 Integration Dream has long been exposed as a fraud. Many people refer to it as simply the
“Delusion of Inclusion”.
Integration is downright hallucinatory. The dream of integration ignores the the reality of White Supremacy and how deeply woven racism is in US society. For anyone to have missed that, they would have been deeply and pleasantly asleep for decades.
White people at all class and educational levels have been in crazy backlash mode since the 1960s. White fear, punishment and separation has been the order of the day for decades.
Blaming Black people for existing (harping about birth rates, for example) does nothing to address access to opportunities and resources. The USA is an incredibly wealthy country. There are enough resources to provide a comfortable life for everyone born here. Yet many people, (Black and otherwise) suffer needlessly with poor health, mediocre education, substandard housing and hunger on a daily basis.
Those conditions are the result of policy decisions made at the highest levels. To me, it is important to look at the Big Picture; who is making those decisions and maintaining the systems that carry out the decisions that give Americans such dreadful results. Blaming people at the sharp end of those decisions is an exercise in futility.
Time to become a “woke” Black man or woman. Sleeping is not an option.
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“Blaming Black people for existing (harping about birth rates, for example) does nothing to address access to opportunities and resources”
Who is harping about birth rates?
“Integration is downright hallucinatory.” I suppose all of the inter-racial marriages in the US are imaginary. Where are all of those light brown people coming from?
“Yet many people, (Black and otherwise) suffer needlessly with poor health, mediocre education, substandard housing and hunger on a daily basis.” I suppose you mean when you say “otherwise” you mean poor Whites as well as other groups.
“who is making those decisions and maintaining the systems that carry out the decisions that give Americans such dreadful results.who is making those decisions and maintaining the systems that carry out the decisions that give Americans such dreadful results.” I suppose you are going to tell us who is making the decisions and not keep us all in suspense.
“Blaming people at the sharp end of those decisions is an exercise in futility.” Who is blaming who? In truth you can not say that any comment that I have made blamed Blacks for anything. You do not read, you just fire your weapon.
I am sorry that you have a different view then I, but that is what makes the world go around
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“Many people refer to it as simply the “Delusion of Inclusion”. ”
I have found that when references are made to “many people” there is no support for the comment. Just a shot in the dark, hoping that no one will challenge the statement.
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@ Allen Shaw
I look forward to reading your thoughtful challenge(s) to the ideas I presented.
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@ Allen Shaw
“The unemployment rate in most Black communities ranges in the neighborhood of 25 to 30%. Many Black youths cannot obtain a job performing any service, they cannot gain any work experience and they see no future. If they were to be living in a community that had a low unemployment rate they may have an opportunity to have employment.”
I understand the point you make here. My question is, how do you forsee it working in a practical sense? How are these black youths supposed to find the money to leave their community and establish themselves in an all-white community with low unemployment?
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[…] via The DOJ report on the Baltimore police — Abagond […]
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Once the Black leaders like you decide such a plan is desirable they can put their heads together and help develop a workable plan.
Looking for a solution: “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:13
When people of goodwill wish to accomplish task they suddenly find many helping hands. Many government leaders are looking for solutions to solve this problem. Appealing to other places may surprise you at the results that you might get. You do recall the many people that were resettled from New Orleans.
Many of those individuals who did not wish to go back to New Orleans have settled into their new homes.
The main thing that it takes is a desire to seek a solution. I’m not the person to develop the plan. I offer a solution which is something that you and others of yours wisdom can work out.
Once people rid themselves of their biases many good things can happen. Nothing can happen as long as people are sitting with their set minds and are determined that nothing is going to be allowed to be done.
Neither those Whites with biases nor Blacks with biases should stop those individuals who wish to have a better life from accomplished what they wish to accomplish. If you think there is a possibility that what I am saying might be of value, than a major change has taken place. Let us hope that you are actually considering such a thought and not just thinking that I was going to be stumped.
One thing to remember, the government loans money for children to go to college there is no reason why the federal government cannot assist in developing plans to offer a future for the improvement of Blacks.
Past successful programs: Civilian Conservation Corps and National Youth Administration
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Allen Shaw to Afrofem I have not seen any plan that is anything but anti White and Black Separation that you presented.
Could you refresh my memory of your positive plans.
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Solitaire I should not have implied that you had a bias, I though I was replying to Afrofem.
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@ Allen Shaw
“One thing to remember, the government loans money for children to go to college there is no reason why the federal government cannot assist in developing plans to offer a future for the improvement of Blacks.”
Your statement above is very true. However, couldn’t the federal government also assist in developing plans and provide funding that would offer a future for the improvement of impoverished black people in the communities where they already live? Couldn’t this work be done without mass dispersal of a population from their homes, their friends, and their family?
I am at a loss to figure out which all-white regions and communities you believe will have plentiful jobs. It certainly wouldn’t be an area like the one where I grew up, which has suffered tremendously from the farming crisis, the loss of manufacturing and other blue-collar jobs, and an epidemic of meth and opiate abuse, with a related rise in crime. It sounds like you’re thinking instead of well-to-do white communities, and those tend to actually be located in the suburban reaches of metropolitan areas of large cities.
Which brings me back to my earlier statement: why not concentrate on improving conditions for impoverished urban black communities within the larger metropolitan area in which they already reside? Wouldn’t that conserve the resources required to fund a mass exodus and allow more money to be spent on improving education, infrastructure, and job opportunities? Why not have the government create financial incentives for companies to open branches in these locations? Why not build partnerships with the rich suburban white-majority enclaves and the profitable white-owned businesses in these cities?
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OMG, did i just read these posts from Mr. Shaw?
How about dispersing the white population in the USA so that they don’t live in their isolated social bubbles?
Yes, I agree that the “Black Belt” is essentially a contiguous swath from central/southern Maryland to Eastern Texas, with “islands” in Philadelphia, New York, Newark, Cleveland, Detroit, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Oakland, etc.
But it is the residents of the “white belt” or the white islands that are in dire need of dispersing and exposure and further education.
Re: solitaire’s response to Allen Shaw
Indeed,
I just checked – 11 of the 20 wealthiest countries in the USA are in MD/VA, in the very areas which surround Baltimore and Washington, DC, and are adjacent to the “Black Belt” that Mr. Shaw alluded to. Yet its wealthiest communities are overwhelmingly white (some are over 95%) in a metro area where whites make up only about 45%.
PG county, the wealthiest majority black county is not in the top 20 or even top 50.
My brother is working in southern West Virginia now, in a community that is over 90% white but which largely impoverished. I don’t see “white” as meaning “well to do”.
I can tell you what kind of stuff goes on in Metro DC. For many decades (since the 1970s at least), Fairfax County (alternating between #1 and #2 wealthiest in the nation) BLOCKED the Metro from going to its main commercial heart, Tyson’s Corner, which employs over 100,000 people. Why? Well, it turns out that most of the communities surrounding the area are upper middle-class white ones, and they specifically expressed that they did not want any of the “ghetto” residents (codeword for blacks and Latinos) to flood their neighborhood and the Metro would make it easier for them. In a metro area where whites are the not in the majority, this is scary to most whites.
It makes no economic sense to block transportation to Tyson’s corner and to Dulles airport, but somehow it made sense on racial grounds.
Well, finally, a new line is being built there after white people complained about the lack of transportation access to there and to the international airport (the new line from the airport passes right through Tyson’s corner) and finally voted for it. Maybe it reflects the better educated more diverse population that later moved into the county.
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[…] A recent report by the Department of Justice on the activities of the Baltimore Police Department revealed what the city’s black residents have known all along, that the policing in black communities was brewing with racism. […]
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@abagond
Remember the riots in Baltimore?
The news was lying.
They only showed ppl looting Mondawmin mall. That was in a way up the street from my house. They only showed a very small portion of Baltimore
BUT
THEY NEVER SHOWED ALL THOSE WHITE PEOPLE IN THE INNER HARBOR, DOWNTOWN WHITE areas LOOTING ALSO.
They will get theirs one day. You reap what you sow and pay what you owe. They lie, lie and lie some more. It’s like a skill for the white media. It’s like they get special training to lie.
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More problems with the Baltimore police.
At least this time, some pleaded guilty.
8 cops allegedly used an elite Baltimore police team to plunder the city and its residents
Six of the cops have already pleaded guilty, and two are now on trial.
(https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16961146/baltimore-gun-trace-task-force-trial)
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