Moral Mondays (2013- ) is an American grassroots protest movement against right-wing Republican Tea Party policies. It started in 2013 in North Carolina when the Tea Party took over that state. In 2014 it spread to Georgia and South Carolina.
On February 8th 2014 in Raleigh, North Carolina, the state capital, Moral Mondays and the left-wing HK on J Coalition staged the largest civil rights protest the South has seen since Selma in 1965.
It is not (yet) as large as the Occupy movement was just before the nationwide police crackdown in 2011, but it has a broader base: young and old, black and white, working and middle class, teachers, doctors,pro-abortion activists, etc. Church and labour leaders support it.
Moral Mondays is led by Reverend William Barber II, president of the North Carolina NAACP.
- It is called Moral because it opposes Republican policies that Barber calls “extreme, constitutionally inconsistent, morally indefensible, economically insane policies.”
- It is called Mondays because they hold protests on Mondays at the state legislature when it is in session. In 2013 over 900 were arrested (a good thing for a protest movement).
In 2010 Republicans gained control of both houses of the legislature. In 2012 Pat McCrory, a Republican, was elected governor. It was the first time since 1870 that Republicans gained control of the state.
With their new-found power, Republicans:
- Made voting harder by requiring state-issued IDs, limiting early voting, ending same-day registration, etc.
- Cut taxes for the richest 5%, raised them for the bottom 95%.
- Cut spending on public education.
- Refused Medicaid coverage under Obamacare for 500,000.
- Ended unemployment benefits for 170,000.
- Ended the right of prisoners on death row to challenge racist verdicts.
- Banned same-sex marriage.
- Passed anti-abortion laws that are among the strongest in the country.
And so on.
Because Republicans got to draw the voting map after the 2010 census, they will have an edge in elections till at least 2020.
Moral Mondays at first protested the anti-voting law, which the NAACP is challenging in court. It has since taken on other issues.
The first protest was on April 29th 2013. Only a hundred showed up. By July there were 15,000.
Changing demographics: Barber wants to use it to
break through the white southern strategy that has dominated the South for the past 50 years.
That Southern strategy is built on a declining demographic: Angry White Men. Which is why Republicans pass anti-voting laws that affect blacks, the poor and the young (Democratic-leaning voters) more than others.
Republicans blamed the protests on outsiders. In fact, most protesters are from North Carolina. A PPP poll showed that more people in the state approved of Moral Mondays than of state lawmakers.
The protests so far seemed to have softened Republican positions on education spending and abortion.
Barber is planning a new Freedom Summer, like the one in Mississippi in 1964. He wants to register as many people as possible to lay the groundwork for a huge turnout at North Carolina’s midterm elections in November 2014.
Thanks to Stephanie for suggesting this post.
See also:
The Moral Mondays movement is the push back that’s needed. The Republicans in North Carolina want things to go back to the 1950’s. They want to oppress the poor and disenfranchised.
LikeLike
We need this movement to spread all over the country. Really need it in Texas.
LikeLike
If the Republicans have their way they will send the whole country into retrograde.
LikeLike
LikeLike
I’m so glad that the people of NC had enough of the right wing racists’ policies and laws. I’m glad they pushed back. Enough is enough!
S.B.
LikeLike
Mary,
Of course the Republican Party of NC and the country wants to push back to the 1890s when Blacks/POC, the working class/poor/lower middle class, and women in general back in our “places.” That’s not going to happen, not with demographic and cultural changes taking place right before our eyes. My homestate Ohio needs a Moral Monday as well.
S.B.
LikeLike
Thanks, Abagond. This is really interesting.
I’m going to share with UK friends. We need things like this to oppose our own right wing parties nasty policies.
LikeLike
This is interesting people’s movement…
LikeLike
Good post Abagond! I’ve read a little about Rev. Barber and his movement in North Carolina sometime last year. I only wished me had more Reverends and people of all stripes with the courage and conviction that he has to stand up to the Rethuglican party’s factotums. The collective mind-set of these people appears to be circa the 1850s.
LikeLike
Great post…
LikeLike
This is the Unity I pray for and envision. Where men stand up for justice and not for affiliation. I so wish I could be there if only to add more bodies to the fight……I do hope they smartin’ up because if they don’t change the direction they are going and give the people back their ability to vote I can say for sure that we will stand side by side and TAKE IT BACK!
LikeLike
We need more Rev. William Barbers.
LikeLike
This is the most important post because what happened in NC is also affecting the country as the country is being confronted with reactionaries and outright racists who want to turn this country back to the late 19th century when racial/class/cultural tensions were at an all-time high, when lynchings of POC occur frequently anytime there’s a challenge to white supremacist rule in both the South and the North, when striking workers were suppressed by deadly force, when women were restricted from making important decisions, despite the rise of higher education and urbanization.
Those Republicans are dangerous. Never underestimate them, for they will send us back to the dark ages!
S.B.
LikeLike
Mary Burrell,
That’s for sure!
LikeLike
The word Rethuglicans suits them well. They are the real thugs.
LikeLike
How can a small group of men simply buy their way into power and strip all of the good works carried out by the good men and women before them, nullifying years of blood, sweat and tears shed by so many for so long…..How can it be so easy? How can they be so arrogant and self serving in the open and not at least provide explanation? I am perplexed how this can happen and I am upset beyond all that it can happen.
LikeLike
I always say that it’s not terrorists from across the world or thugs down the street that I fear the most. It’s republicans and their rich masters in power that worry me.
LikeLike
@ Mary, you have your finger on the pulse.
LikeLike
I’m making it bold so it’s easier to read.
Made voting harder by requiring state-issued IDs, limiting early voting, ending same-day registration, etc.
Most states as well as most countries require voter ID to prevent voter fraud.
Cut taxes for the richest 5%, raised them for the bottom 95%.
Everyone pays the same state tax rate in NC.
Cut spending on public education.
2008 Education budget was $7.7 Trillion. 2014 Education budget is $7.9 Trillion. This is really about teachers unions who oppose school vouchers.
Refused Medicaid coverage under Obamacare for 500,000.
This is worded to sound like coverage has been cut. It hasn’t. The legislature voted against expanding coverage. NC has the same coverage policies they had under the Democrats.
Ended unemployment benefits for 170,000.
Eligibility was reduced from almost 2 years to about 5 months. Unemployment benefits are supposed to be temporary not long term.
Ended the right of prisoners on death row to challenge racist verdicts
The state’s district attorneys were nearly unanimous in their bipartisan conclusion that challenging verdicts on the basis of race was nothing but a judicial loophole to avoid the death penalty and not a path to justice.
Banned same-sex marriage.
Same sex marriage isn’t illegal in North Carolina. There are a several denominations that marry gays.
Passed anti-abortion laws that are among the strongest in the country
The law regulates abortion clinics based on the same standards used for outpatient surgical centers. If the regulations are anti-abortion then they’re also against outpatient surgery.
LikeLike
If you compare the bills and legislation on the docket of congress you will see what can only be described as good (Senate) and evil (House).One side passing or attempting to pass legislation that perpetuates infrastructure, education, morality and the common welfare of the people. The other side reads like a page out of a George Orwell novel or Mein Kampf . Line after line are restrictions on the people, voting rule changes to suppress, repealing benefits for the underprivileged and environmental protections people fought so long to pass. Of course there are bills that benefit on the docket…..for the wealthy of course.
LikeLike
william
You don’t have to answer, but I’m curious how old you are.
LikeLike
DJ:
Great, well thought out response (anyone who would say this is “trolling” just wants an echo chamber). I’m personally in favor of universal health care if we could have a system like Canada or Germany and lower our total healthcare spending by like 50% (just for efficiency’s sake–we spend far more than anyone else), but that’s not how things have worked out. Obamacare has been a disaster that will significantly lower hours worked and gov’t revenue, while still leaving tons of uninsured folks (this from the non-partisan, official CBO). When the default comes, things will get much worse for average Americans, but liberals want to keep spending…
Unfortunately, nothing noteworthy in this article, just toes the liberal party line. If framed differently, most Americans would agree with most of the points noted above (e.g., most Americans don’t favor government sanctioned gay marriage, most favor reasonable restrictions on abortions, most think schools have become incredibly inefficient, etc.)
Also, had the same thought re: William. He seems very immature, always stumbling over himself to apologize.
LikeLike
william
Spending $15 Billion of federal tax dollars to save $65 Million of state tax dollars is how the US ended up with a $17 trillion in natioinal debt.
Also, you got that from the website of a group called The North Carolina Justice Center’s Health Access Coalition. I tend to be skeptical of groups that have “justice center”, “coalition” and “peoples republic of” in their names.
>>
abagond:
William frequently copy/pastes large reams of text he gets from other places without citing a source. Not only is that spamming, it’s also plagiarism. I don’t mind people quoting snippets or summarizing provided they cite their source. But there needs to be a comment policy regarding this practice.
LikeLike
To all the decent people in the room…this is a response to accusations made by people I believe are TROLLS and each comment I believe has relevance and I have no doubt each is true.
Things a racist would say: “I’m not racist but….”
Things a TROLL would say: “Anybody who thinks this is trolling doesn’t realize I am always right”
Things a REPUBLICAN would say when faced with reality: “Most Americans would agree even if they don’t.”
Types of people who don’t apologize: “Narcissist, serial killers, sociopaths, people who are never wrong, racist, bigots….”
Things a TROLL does: “Constantly states disapproval for the site but is always commenting or knows too much about guest, proving he is present more times than not…”
If this offended anybody please just let me say that I sincerely……from the bottom of my heart say…..I meant every word!
THANK YOU KIWI, you are such a beautiful person….
LikeLike
@ William the Conqueror: Comment deleted for plagiarism.
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
Plagiarism is against the comment policy. Thank you.
LikeLike
@Abagond…I wasn’t aware that this unacceptable, I sincerely never intended to pass it off as my own and only meant it to be informative. I do 50% of my work at home and I only have so much time to jump into conversations and jump back to work, I did make a comment back on open thread about not taking credit for my copy and pasting but it didn’t go through.
Obvously I will refrain from doing this again and thank you for being fair and just for all of us.
LikeLike
@DaJokah…Your skeptical of anything you don’t agree with but seem to trust any and every site that you agree, even if they have a bias agenda.
LikeLike
@ William the Conqueror
Next time put it in quotes and say where it is from.
LikeLike
biff
While I will agree that response was not trolling, that does not set aside the fact that he is a troll (or a narcassist as quite possibly they are simply one in the same).
@Kiwi
Exactly. The self proclaimed “meta-troll” is trying to define What is or is not trolling.
LikeLike
@Abagond…Thank you, I will follow your instruction. I will also do my best not to let myself get diverted away from the one thing I use in all of my arguments that has more power than any hearsay pulled off of an internet site…MORALITY.
LikeLike
William the Conqueror
Skeptical? I call that the crybaby move. “He didn’t site his sources!” Waaa
LikeLike
Sharina, we are always supposed to cite sources, when presenting words that are not our own. Particularly for lengthy material. I did it in the “woman” thread for Brain That Changes Itself, it would have been abhorrent not to do so given the way I presented the material: straight text from the book and a lengthy passage at that!
LikeLike
I myself am sick and tired of trolls derailing and distract the conversation of the day. Moral Monday is very necessary because the people of NC are suffering under the right wing Republithug regime of McCrory, Tillis, Berger, and Pope. Those men are so determined to take NC back to the 19th century, even the back to the Dark Ages. Bliff and DaJokah are trolls who don’t care about issues. They’re just there to start a fight.
S.B.
LikeLike
Now as for our 17 trillion dollar national debt lets take a look at how we got to this point.
Iraq and Afghanistan wars
Bush tax cuts
Energy subsidies
Borrowing of social security
Plan D healthcare
Worlds largest single expenditure, our almost $1 trillion annual Military budget
Healthcare service cost regarding #1 and #2 countries with most expensive services in healthcare cost worldwide.
Child birth in U.S. reg = $9,000 average – Australia $6,000
Child birth in U.S. c-sect = $15,000 average – Australia $10,000
Bypass surgery in U.S. = $73,000 average – Australia $43,000
Hospital stay per day in U.S. = $4000 average – Australia $1,400
Doctor visit in U.S. = $95 average – Australia $36
Knee surgery replacement in U.S. = $52,000 average – Austria $22,000
These are a list of average number for the U.S
LikeLike
I totally agree with @Da Jokah. The Republicans are right. Every state, and the federal government shouk be like NC today.
LikeLike
@Abagond and Friends…. Regarding my last post and it’s content I decided to post this comment.
The healthcare prices are only meant to show the huge gap in cost to the consumer and not to debate specifics. I found my numbers for healthcare service in a Huffington Post article and their resource for the article was International Federation of Health Plans. I used the median price and just rounded off the numbers because I didn’t think the exact number was important as I just wanted to show the huge gap between us and the second highest priced country. The list drops drastically after Australia and down to the most poorest country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html
https://static.squarespace.com/static/
LikeLike
Fantastic! What a display of the people rising up with a voice amidst the oppressive ceiling of the top 1% who are the minority. I hope they don’t loosen their grip; if they keep at it, they’ll could make a huge impact. Yay to the underdogs.
LikeLike
@Legion
I know legion, but how many turn into a tattle tale when people don’t? I have engaged with individuals previously who did not cite not one source at all, but would write books and books on stuff they claimed to be true (yes trolls). I never once decide to whine about them do it, but rather provided their source and politely let them know that they should cite.
LikeLike
If you are not with me, than you are my enemy.
LikeLike
^ Ok, I understand what you mean now about “crybabies”.
LikeLike
Bobby M
In the event that I care then I will let you know.
LikeLike
@Sharina….thank you my Dear….I thought it ironic he wanted to know how old I was, obviously to state my maturity level, and then in the very next breath ran and told on me because I found information that contradicted his and confirmed Abagonds. Besides, age seldom has anything to do with maturity and my presence on this site is not to fulfill some dysfunctional need to give myself an “Atta Boy” as a substitute for the real thing…my Father says it even when I don’t deserve it.
LikeLike
What I find particularly obscene in a supposedly ‘1st world’ country, is the fact that they would be fighting over Universal Health Care, whatever the political ideology.
LikeLike
The tea party is right. The 1950s were much better than the present day, the 1880s better still, and the early 1700s where the pinnacle of civilization. Any time before that, technology was too primitive. Any time after that, the exploration and adventure of the colonial period is declining.
Try to debate that, I dare you
LikeLike
In 1950 corporate tax rates were as high as 90% and they accounted for 27% of all Federal revenue. Starting with Nixon and his deregulation of Wallstreet and ending with Reagans and George Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy and big business Federal money is only comprised of 9% of Federal money. This puts a huge strain on the middle class and of course those who ALWAYS suffer the most, the poor. Corporate profits have skyrocketed over the last 30 years after Reagonomics and yet wages have not budged at less than 1%. Reagans policies have been the largest contributor to the shrinking of the middle class, were a huge failure for the American dream and created a gap in equality never seen before. These 3 presidents are the biggest reason why we speak about how great it was in the 50’s and 60’s when only one parent had to work and one stayed home with the children. Of course economically the 50’s and 60’s may have been ideal but there were millions of American who were not able or allowed to enjoy such prosperity and due to the systematic oppressive conspiracy most of these people kept quiet, sparking some of the most ignorant comments ever spoken by white men like, “They knew their place back then…”….”They have their area and they know better not to leave it…”. Though the 50’s may have seemed like some perfect utopia it was an experiment in Totalitarianism and as much as I loved it as a child, as a much wiser and empathetic Christian Man the 1950’s can suck my #$%&!
LikeLike
I was not referring to economically. The social values, the beautiful suburbs, the music.
So much better than Obammunism.
LikeLike
@Bobby
“Try to debate that, I dare you”—-We have gone through this debating your opinion thing and in the end. No one cares about what yours is.
LikeLike
@ Kiwi
“And then there’s biff, who behaves like a reactive child every time someone disagrees with him, and putting words in others’ mouths while whining about others doing the same.”—ROFL…All I hear from him is “I’m in the echo chamber.”
LikeLike
@Kiwi…..”Personally, I always had the impression that you were much older than Da Jokah, so I found his comment hilariously ironic.”
Thanks again…
LikeLike
I’d like to once again address the protest in NC and the fascist voter suppression legislation and now laws the GOP have spent their time creating. In many of these cases citizens will be required to have an ID instead of other forms of identification or they will no longer be able to vote….These policies will affect the elderly, the poor, the young and POC the most….all groups who primarily vote Liberal, an ambiguous but direct assault on the voters of this nation and clearly a violation of the Constitution. These are the same genius’s that refuse to pass a background check bill for whackos who want to purchase guns that fire 200 rounds per minute but want a 89 year old poor black woman to provide her state ID to check a box with a ink pen. Voting locations have also been reassigned making it harder for those without transportation to vote, early voting or voting by mail have been repealed or have had restrictions placed on them, boy for a party that doesn’t like regulations they sure do spend a lot of time putting regulations and restrictions on individuals!
Since I first heard of these things happening I thought of how we could combat this fascist undertaking. Protesting at this stage is good but too late for the 2014 elections as these changes have already been made in most SS ran states. So I thought how the ID’s, early voting, etc will stop people from voting and thats when I came up with an idea.
There are 86 million registered Democrats in this country. If each person made a commitment to sponsor ONE other person besides themselves who needs help in order to vote, we could not only assure that each one of those votes the GOP has tried to stop still occurs but possibly add thousands of votes of people that normally don’t or can’t vote.
So, go to your local retirement home, community center, city hall, fire station, etc and lets get this thing rolling. We can call it “Anti Voter Suppression Program.” We drive them to the voting booth, we take them to get an ID and then to the voting booth, we loan them $25, we stand in line for them if they can’t stand, we push their wheel chairs….All you have to do is sponsor one person but if you want you can sponsor as many as you like. Lets make a commitment and sponsor someone right now…I am going to do it…
PS….we should present this to local areas like NC also or the “WHITEHOUSE”.
LikeLike
It is true we spend more money on things then most countries for horrible results. I think it is no always the fault of the money by itself but the hands that touch it. Several of the countries I went and taught in spent less but the even the buildings for public schooling were better. Yet, there are also hidden factors that make other countries look better when they may not exactly be. Such examples being in Australia having tracks, in Asia having Cram Schools.
However, I cannot understand this country’s health system at all. It seems as if it is bent on making people poor.
LikeLike
or making [certain] people rich?
LikeLike
healthcare debate = more semantics, i have not been under a doctor’s regular care for over 5 years!
LikeLike
@William The Conqueror – The pen is mightier than the sword.
LikeLike
Try to debate that, I dare you
There is no debating a lunatic, loon.
LikeLike
Knock it off. You know I’m right.
LikeLike
@Bobby M
I know you have an opinion and in your mind it is right.
LikeLike
Oh yes… the 1700s were the absolute vertex of style and culture, and of course, hygiene.
http://listverse.com/2012/10/22/10-revolting-facts-about-the-18th-century/
LikeLike
Let us not forget the torture devices of the C18th, either, like scrotum-shredders, and such:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lxx6uPVbcY)
LikeLike
The tea party is right. The 1950s were much better than the present day, the 1880s better still, and the early 1700s where the pinnacle of civilization. Any time before that, technology was too primitive. Any time after that, the exploration and adventure of the colonial period is declining.
Try to debate that, I dare you
Bobby M
That’s an opinion, sir. It can be debated or argued. And everyone has the right to disagree and why.
LikeLike
I totally agree with @Da Jokah. The Republicans are right. Every state, and the federal government shouk be like NC today.
Well, bully for you. lol
As a side note, it seems like this country is regressing more and more back to its earlier days. It’s like it has Benjamin Button’s problem.
LikeLike
Conservatives always want to go “back” without considering what “going back” really means. It’s particularly egregious when the conservative in question is a *neo-white,* such as working class whites, people of Eastern or Southern European, Irish, Jewish, Hispanic, or, yes, even Asian or African American heritage who believe the lie, and tow the line. They seem to have forgotten that THEY wouldn’t have been part of the equation. That time travel is an “e” ticket, where e = exclusionary, and THEY wouldn’t have been tall enough to board the ride.
Recently, The Wall Street Journal lamented the decline of the WASP — and I’m not referring to the insect. In the article, the author yearns for the good old days when White Anglo Saxon Protestant males controlled EVERYTHING. Never mind that this “control” was obtained and maintained by subjugating everyone that didn’t fall into that narrowly defined category. Never mind that laws, covenants, and other feats of social engineering were put in place to ensure their continued dominance and control. Ironically, these are the same people who love to talk about “bootstrapping.” It’s easy to bootstrap and get a leg up when you’ve rigged a contraption that boosts you and blocks all others.
LikeLike
@ Riverside Rob: Comment deleted for referring to people as roaches.
LikeLike
Abagond – the roaches were real insect roaches, as in decay and vermin that accompany run down properties. Some people follow prosperity but they bring the decay of their last homes with them. Maybe moral Monday should take to protesting that.
The comment was asking when Moral Monday would take a look at cities that have been governed by and for blacks for decades. Cities where progressive policies have chased away business, let schools decline, and allow criminal gangs to take over blocks. Cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Detroit, Camden and Newark. Moral Monday wants to protest the tea party? That’s what they’re against, lower taxes and smaller government? What is it they stand for? More black patronage that lead to failed cities? That’s it isn’t it?
Haven’t we all seen enough of that? Let South Carolina rule itself and prosper for a bit-
LikeLike
*Sighs!*
Riverside_Rob, it’s typical of folks like you linking black people with failure. It’s also typical of you to try avoid, at all cost, the economic realities that create problems for certain communities which are linked towards – dare I say it – racism. Seriously, your race realist black shame trip is on a cruise to nowhere, my friend.
LikeLike
@ Riverside_Rob
I have not studied the background of every city that you have mentioned, but in the case of Detroit, for instance, it was both Liberals and Conservatives who messed it up with their policies and actions. What gives you the idea that it only Liberal policies?
LikeLike
brothawolf
You’re in denial.
LikeLike
king — “in the case of Detroit, for instance, it was both Liberals and Conservatives who messed it up with their policies and actions.”
How so? Which policies and actions?
LikeLike
Da Jokah,
No. I’m being real here.
The causes should be examined if it would help bring solutions and to quiet those who do nothing but complain and victim blame. Rob over here is doing nothing more than just that, victim blaming. If the reason why white people are poor are due to economic and, as king brought up, political policies and actions from both liberals and conservatives, why can’t the same be said of blacks?
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
Haha! We are about to have the conversation that we already had but can no longer find aren’t we? It’s a pity neither of us can find it because it would save us quite a bit of effort.
Ah well.
I’d say that Detroit was as much a victim to hubris and bad business practices as it ever was to unrealistic Union demands and Liberal policies. I’m sure you will agree.
LikeLike
brothawolf The causes should be examined if it would help bring solutions and to quiet those who do nothing but complain and victim blame.
Most people are poor as a result of their own abilities and decisions not because they’re victims. It’s not “victim blaming” to say that someone is less successful because they have lower intelligence. At least not any more than it is to blame someone’s losing a marathon on them weighing 300 pounds. It is what it is.
If the reason why white people are poor are due to economic and, as king brought up, political policies and actions from both liberals and conservatives, why can’t the same be said of blacks?
I think economic and politic policies can affect the economy, employment, wages, etc. And I think economic policies can have a disparate impact on different demographics. But just because something CAN happen doesn’t mean it IS happening. One needs to demonstrate a causal relationship and not just claim it because it soothes their ego.
>>
king
Could you be a little more specific?
LikeLike
It’s not “victim blaming” to say that someone is less successful because they have lower intelligence.
So Jokah, tell me, are you successful?
I think economic and politic policies can affect the economy, employment, wages, etc. And I think economic policies can have a disparate impact on different demographics. But just because something CAN happen doesn’t mean it IS happening. One needs to demonstrate a causal relationship and not just claim it because it soothes their ego.
I agree. Except, it IS happening, and it’s happening everywhere. And you think I’m in denial. lol
LikeLike
Brothawolf, smh – what happens to cities with majority black citizenry? first they elect black government, then begin a descent away from prosperity. It’s not just American cities, whole African nations have achieve the same negative success ratio upon achieving black governance. Your denial of failure is your undoing, how can you correct what you don’t see as broken?
King – You misunderstood me.
look at a couple of rust belt cities. Pittsburgh has been run by democrats since the 1930’s, it’s not overwhelmed by crime. Detroit has been run by democrats since the 1970’s, it is overrun with crime. Both saw their major industires (Steel in Pittsburgh, Cars in Detorit) take massive hits in the late 20th century. The difference- Pittsburgh is 65% white, Detroit is 89% black.
Failure isn’t on liberals, it’s on black.
LikeLike
So Jokah, tell me, are you successful?
I do alright..
I agree. Except, it IS happening, and it’s happening everywhere. And you think I’m in denial. lol
On the contrary, blacks are just as successful (or unsuccessful) as whites of similar ability. The average black simply has less ability. And you’re in denial about that.
LikeLike
@DJ uh, oustsourcing and offshoring labor policies of the whole american manufacturing industry?
LikeLike
@Riverside_Rob
Actually if I am not mistaken Detroit’s crime rate has decrease. It could be better but a decrease is an improvement from the fluctuations it has seen in the past. We will see how much of an improvement stands because as of late the mayor is a white man and not black. Mike Duggan is his name. This should be a good indicator on whether it is the black leaders or the leader’s period.
I will research the other areas, but it seems to be your contention that black leaders and black people are the reason these areas on in the conditions they are, so I will research and find out if the white leaders made a difference to the crime rates or any type of improvements over their black counterparts.
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
What is “ability?” Is in acquired or inherited?
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
king
Could you be a little more specific?”
Yes, I certainly will. But first, are you willing to stipulate anything? Do you agree at all that “Conservatives” also made mistakes in Detroit, or do you think, that it was 100% Liberal mistakes that caused the problems?
LikeLike
@ Riverside
Do you believe that Democratic policies, positions, beliefs, and tactics have been consisted since the 1930s or do you think that there has been marked differences between the 1930s Democrat and the 2014 Democrat on some important issues?
LikeLike
@ Rob
“Detroit has been run by democrats since the 1970′s, it is overrun with crime.”—Actually it was 1806 that is was ran by the first democrat. 1860 was the first republican and 1974 was the first black mayor.
LikeLike
what happens to cities with majority black citizenry? first they elect black government, then begin a descent away from prosperity. It’s not just American cities, whole African nations have achieve the same negative success ratio upon achieving black governance. Your denial of failure is your undoing, how can you correct what you don’t see as broken?
Riverside_Rob, it sounds like you’re beating around the bush, but are you saying that you believe we are screwed up because we’re black?
I do alright..
So Jokah, what you’re saying is that you are not successful? Maybe you’re one of those people with lower intelligence. lol
On the contrary, blacks are just as successful (or unsuccessful) as whites of similar ability. The average black simply has less ability. And you’re in denial about that.
What is this ‘ability’, Jokah?
LikeLike
v8driver — uh, oustsourcing and offshoring labor policies of the whole american manufacturing industry?
I’m not sure that’s the problem. While the Big Three may be outsourcing and struggling in Detroit, foreign auto manufacturers have been building and expanding auto plants throughout the South. It makes one wonder if the problem wasn’t specific to Detroit.
>>
king — What is “ability?” Is in acquired or inherited?
It may not be scientific, but my working definition has always been how well one can figure things out and get stuff done. As with muscular strength, I think “ability” is both acquired and inherited. One can get stronger by exercising but the genes which code for muscle fibers are inherited.
But first, are you willing to stipulate anything? Do you agree at all that “Conservatives” also made mistakes in Detroit, or do you think, that it was 100% Liberal mistakes that caused the problems?
I’m willing to stipulate that I don’t have extensive, personal knowledge on everything that has happened in Detroit. The problems I’m aware of have resulted primarily from policies associated with the left, Democrats, etc.
>>
sharina — We will see how much of an improvement stands because as of late the mayor is a white man and not black. Mike Duggan is his name. This should be a good indicator on whether it is the black leaders or the leader’s period.
I’m not sure that’s true. You can’t crash a car, hand someone else the keys and then blame them if they can’t drive it. Detroit’s middle class has fled and business base has collapsed. At this point, it would probably be easier to start from scratch in the middle of nowhere than resurrect Detroit. At least, a new city wouldn’t be saddled with debt, violence, theft, crumbling infrastructure, corrupt government and a 70% functionally illiterate population on welfare and food stamps.
>>
brothawolf — what you’re saying is that you are not successful?
Most people would probably consider me successful. Why do you ask?
LikeLike
@King….Here is some information that may be useful to you. Here in California the richest, ultra conservative, ULTRA WHITE Orange County, yes the entire county, went bankrupt in 1994. 3 million people live in Orange County. This county has been run by white conservatives since Santa’s beard was a five o’clock shadow. It was a disaster but of course they didn’t have any trouble getting bailed out using tax payers money.
Other pertinent information you may like to know about is that the first six most violent states by crime rates are all red states. S. Carolina, Tennessee, Nevada, Florida, Louisiana and Alaska.
Red states are also the poorest states, have worse economies and like to complain about people on welfare but consume more Federal welfare money than Blue states.
Blacks have been the most impoverished group of Americans since the very day they were kidnapped and tortured 300 years ago. 2014 and Blacks still sit at the bottom of almost every social and economical category. They are the only people that can say 50 years ago we were not allowed to participate within the confines of the Constitution of the United States of America. As a matter of fact up until 2010 it was illegal for a white woman to marry a black man in Alabama. It wasn’t enforced but it was still on the books along with other pre-civil rights laws, I guess they just didn’t think it was important enough to go over the books back in 1964 and make sure they got rid of the trash. To prove racism is alive and well all one has to do and look what the most powerful people in Arizona did this week. They brought 1930’s Germany to Phoenix. I can imagine the badges on the windows now, large sewn on rainbows in windows of stores and shops that don’t serve gay or lesbians. What a bunch of Nazis!
Of course we can talk numbers and statistics all day but any scientist worth his salt will tell you that correlation does not prove causation, it’s a known fact within the community. Causation is most likely a myriad of factors….For one, in regards to Blacks and the racist view that they have fewer abilities, well that may be factual on paper but it is not factual in reality. Blacks are exposed to poverty, crime, broken families and many more adverse social conditions than whites. These horrible conditions affect Blacks on levels no white arm chair quarterback will ever know.
For an example: Which student will do better on his History test regarding the Chapter on George Washington crossing the Delaware?
Student A: Has a 2014 text book with all the pages and new pictures.
Student B: Has a 1972 text book with graffiti on 10% of the pages, pages are missing from every chapter and four pages missing from the chapter on George Washington’s crossing of the Delaware.
I think we all agree that student A will likely do better than student B.
Example number two: Which student is likely going to remember the text he just read in class on the Constitution.
Student A: Reading in a quite classroom in a middle class to wealthy neighborhood with low crime and not one shooting or murder in 10 years.
Student B: Reading in South Central L.A. trying to concentrate but is thinking about the bell ringing because he knows that he needs to run across campus so he can catch the city bus because the school bus has too many kids that know gang members and all week long his old neighborhood friends have been giving him a hard time about joining the gang and getting jumped in. Last night while trying to do his homework there was a shooting down the block and his next door neighbor had a bullet go through their wall.
Again I think we all know the answer about who will do better.
In conclusion to the comment about abilities here is another causation; POVERTY. Poverty has a direct affect on intelligence; calorie intake, poor nutrition, crime, lack of parent involvement, drugs, etc are all factors that poverty causes. In fact poverty causes a 13 point drop in IQ. So if you remember previous conversations the average white person has a 100 point IQ and Blacks have an average 85 point IQ. Whites are at the top of the economical ladder and Blacks are at the bottom, the poorest most impoverished so they get a 13 point drop from poverty. Take away poverty and give them all the amenities that being a white person gets you and now you have an average IQ of 98….So you see, if you take away all of the crap that Blacks have to put up with and give them a level playing field they will kick your ASS!
LikeLike
Da Jokah
I will agree that that is true, but the same could be said for prior black leaders. So the question is where did this downfall begin? How long has Detroit been riddles with hifh crime and who was it in office when it happened? This will continue when I find that information.
LikeLike
Also I was hoping Riverside_rob would address it as he is the one it was addressed to, so it would be apprecative if you allow him to respond.
LikeLike
To follow up with my prior comment let me say that breaking down groups of human beings is not something I take any pleasure in and each and every single person on this planet is an individual, capable of doing whatever his or her mind dreams of. Unfortunately some people on this site make comments that need defending because of there immoral attack towards an entire group of people. So instead of discussing matters that to the moral and sane individual are obvious, we have to steer the immoral towards the obvious, which is really an impossible act given their mental defect.
The color of a mans skin has zero bearing on what he/she can accomplish, how intelligent he/she is or what kind of person they will be, this is a fact. A mans environment has the most profound impact on his character and his behavior. Raise a child to love and he will love, raise a child to hate and he will hate. The more consistent a child’s life is the more consistent his adulthood will be. A disruptive childhood can lead to many aspects of his adulthood that can leave him lacking in many categories. The direct impact of living in a racist society who judges you every time they look at your skin color coupled with a history parallel to none is going to take hundreds of years to correct just as it took hundreds of years to create. 50 years after the laws were corrected will not change a damn thing in the scheme of things. These racist ways have been a part of America for hundreds of years and they exist right at this moment as well. Whites have had all the money, all the education, all the comforts of America and being white in America. A white man has to wait less time for a taxi, go to less job interviews, apply less times for an apartment, wait less time for a seat for dinner, etc…These are the mundane things where life is frustrating, hateful and racist, act these …
LikeLike
Big kudos to the moral monday demonstrators…
I hate the tea party and concervative republicans more than red flaggers
They have taken the country hostage with their religious fundamentalism and hidden racism…or sometimes blatent racism
Calling Obama , Obamunism is some of the ridículos lies perpetuated , these people have no idea what it is like to live under the real deal
Their thinking supports the unfettered hyper predatory capatalism that ler to the horrible economic crises under the Bush administration , that, thanks to
Obama and the democrats , we are coming out of…amazing the Americans who dont understand this when it happened right in front of them
The 40s , 50s ? Lynching, segragation, jim crow , segragation in baseball ? Great jazz , though
LikeLike
Very insightful comment, William. Thank you. Although I’m familiar with Orange County (White Conservative) and their bankruptcy in 1994, I have never quite considered it’s implications to the degree that you have done. But I certainly will from now on.
@ Da Jokah
I’ll begin answering the Detroit question rather than the “ability” argument here. Of course, I’ll have to condense and simplify so it will be readable.
What happened in Detroit?
For one thing, very early on, Detroit really became almost a singular industry rather than a city. Detroit and the auto manufacturing aparatus became an inseparable entity. The city lacked diverse sources for income, and became inseparably connected to the fate of a single American industry. During most of Detroit’s early boom years this flaw was not apparent, because the incredible wealth and industry of the world Auto manufacturing machine seemed eternal, unstoppable, and unrivaled. However, this uber dependence on a single income source was a serious flaw and mistake. And since we are talking about race here, I must point out that this crack in the very base and foundation of Detroit was a mistake made by White people who failed to detect this vulnerability, because of their rather naive assumptions about the future of geo economics. Understand that I’m not arguing Liberal vs. Conservatism as yet, just the color of power at the time that the most serious primary mistakes were made.
So, although there were other big problems in the way that Detroit’s taxation worked (which I will forgo explaining here) these and other problems were masked by automobile profits. Nobody was looking at Detroit as a potential problem, because as long as the auto industry was making profits the potential for problems did not exist. I call this the ‘Capitalism Effect’ which is the fact that in a market-driven society, often profitability is seen as the ultimate proof of fidelity and invulnerability. If something is making money, then it cannot be systemically flawed. Profits are proof of being right.
But in 1973 two unforeseen events happened almost simultaneously. The United States reached ‘Peak Oil Production’ (non-shale) and The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries initiated an oil embargo in response to Western support of Israel during the Yom Kippur War (1973). These events sparked the Oil Crisis of 1973. The cost of oil quadrupled by 1974 to $12 per barrel. Gasoline prices increased as a result, and 20% of gas stations ran out of fuel altogether. Long lines at gas stations followed, then fuel rationing. It was a national crisis. Suddenly gas had become an economic problem for consumers. in 1972 gasoline was $0.36 per gallon. By 1975 gas was $0.57, and by 1979 it was $0.80.
American consumers needed to save gas, and so they began to buy cheaper, smaller, and more fuel economical cars. So much so that Japanese passenger car exports rose from 100,000 in 1965 to 1,827,000 in 1975. This would fundamentally change the U.S. auto market and Detroit. The game had changed and it was up to the Conservatives (Auto Industry Management) and the Liberals (United Auto Workers Union) to respond. And the fate of a great American city hung in the balances.
To be continued…
LikeLike
Most people would probably consider me successful. Why do you ask?
Jokah, I just wanted to see if you were just being your naturally trolly self.
In any case, you and Rob are both very hung up on skin color as a prerequisite of success and failure. Is it a projection habit? Is it to cover up your own inadequacies? Or is it because you two are both full of it? Who knows and who cares?
Anyway…
The right, especially the ranks of the Tea Party, are scrambling for relevancy and failing miserably. The left may have an edge, but they too are becoming less and less needed. The two sides, it seems, are cowardly with the changing times. In the end, it will lead America into obscurity, I think. I don’t see any future in either side.
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
…continuing
What happened in Detroit?
So the confluence of historic petro-events in 1973 culminated in a new market challenge for U.S. automakers—fuel economy and lower priced cars. But unfortunately the U.S, Auto Manufacturing Management took the following attitudes and made there following assumptions:
1) This is just temporary – as soon as things stabilize again Americans will be back in their larger, more expensive, American cars.
2) Japanese auto manufacturers are incapable of understanding the American market. They aren’t dialed into luxury, style, and value the way we are.
3) Americans are married to American brands. As a matter of pride and prejudice, Americans will always buy American over foreign.
4) We are just inherently better than the Japanese. We invented cars, (false but widely believed). We beat the Japs in war and occupied their country. They are not our equals, and they will never be able to compete with us in our own market.
I must point out here that the Business Executives and strategists who made these assumptions were all White. They believed in a concept known as “American Exceptionalism” to the extent that they felt themselves impervious to the Japanese threat. And even when year after year their assumptions proved wrong and they continued to lose market share, they still believed that they were superior, and that if they just kept building large sedans with pretentious names, that eventually this ‘Japanese thing’ would blow over. Such was the hubris and conceit of the Conservative, Capitalist, White business-minded auto professional.
On the other side of the ideological avenue were the Auto Union members who were again mostly White because these were very good jobs for relatively low levels of education. It seems that just as the competition became fierce, the quality of work and attitudes became poor. The large salaries seemed to do little to inspire hard work, craftsmanship, and pride. Instead, the American cars made in the mid 1970’s to mid 1990’s were notoriously poorly-crafted and badly designed from piston to paint job.
The attitude seemed to be one of sheer greed. The assembly-line union workers wanted to be paid the equivalent, and often more, than many college graduates or licensed laborer like plumbers or electricians. Yet across the Pacific ocean, the Japanese non-unionized labor force was gaining renowned for their workmanship, attention to detail and pride of product even while making less money than U.S. workers. People around the world began talking about “The Japanese Model” of doing business, where each employee took such personal pride in their job that even a single laborer could stop the entire assembly-line to make sure that quality was maintained.
Again, the all-White Union Upper Management, and the mostly White rank and file believed that there was something special about them. They were American, they were powerful, and they were White. Many Democrats would like to leave off the “White” part because that kind of accusation should be levied only at wicked Republicans. But American trade unions have been NOTORIOUSLY racist, and in this case, part of their failure, like that of Management, was that they simply could not imagine those foreign, little, yellow, bastards ever beating GM in the world market. Impossible!!
But then things went from bad to worse and Detroit was not prepared for what was to come.
to be further continued…
LikeLike
Also @ Da Jokah I am curious on where you got “70% functionally illiterate population,” when the stats I ran across actually say 47%. As can be seen here
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/study-finds-47-of-detroit-residents-are-functionally-illiterate/
and here
http://theredphoenixapl.org/2011/05/06/report-nearly-half-of-detroit-adults-%E2%80%9Cfunctionally-illiterate%E2%80%9D/
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
…continuing
What happened in Detroit?
So to make a long story shorter
Essentially, every prediction and assumption made by the American Automobile Management and Labor had proved to be incorrect.
1) The Japanese were in fact, here to stay.
2) Japanese auto manufacturers were actually better at identifying and fulfilling the needs of the American market then the Americans were.
3) It turned out that Americans liked the quality, economy, longevity, and style of the Japanese cars.
4) Within 30 years, the Japanese had dominated the U.S. auto market. It seems they were just inherently better than Americans at making cars!
It was an absolute failure of vision, leadership, intelligence, and imagination by White people to understand a complex and ever-changing world market. I’m not sure if it was due to heredity FAIL or acquisitional FAIL.
But going back, soon after the Japanese had begun making their first serious and unmistakable market gains, there was a long window of opportunity to do one thing that would have turned it all around. THEY COULD HAVE ADMITTED THAT THEY WERE WRONG. They could have looked at what the Japanese were doing and copied ‘the Japanese model’ early on. They could have admitted to themselves that it was actually possible, that a non-American, non-White, work force on the other side of the world might just have discovered a more efficient way of making a more efficient kind of automobile. They could have realized that they were not special and that other peoples were just as capable of making progress, and understanding the system, as they were. But alas, they could not bring themselves to do this.
So the world-dominating auto industry began to slip. Slowly at first, but unmistakably. Profits began to drop off as people around the world began switching brands. It was clear that the ‘American model’ could no longer keep pace with the new Japanese model. This would be disastrous for a place Like Detroit! So much of it’s employment and tax money came either from Auto manufacturers, auto sales, or the auto support and supply industry. If that system began to spiral down, so would the city of Detroit. The writing was on the wall since the 1970s. Of course, Wayne County had been slowly loosing it’s White population since it’s heyday in the 1950s, but as the auto industry slowly died in the flight of the White and the wealthy increased sharply.
On the Conservative side: White auto executives failed to turn things around aver and over again, but continued to be paid large salaries and even bonuses. As people were laid off, and supporting businesses were hurt, they kept on taking and taking. And in cases were they finally left, they had wonderful “golden parachutes” that paid them off handsomely for screwing the company and then finally leaving it worse off than when they tok over.
On the Liberal side:Union leaders did almost NOTHING to stop the avalanche from taking place. It because obvious that Detroit was going down! But they felt that they could not concede to management because it would show weakness and set a bad precedent. Being reasonable was out of the question. They would rather see the city burn than admit to their greedy excesses Again, Blacks didn’t have a big part in the decision making.
It wasn’t until 1974 that Coleman Young became it’s first Black mayor (after the decline). But as a practical matter, the Automobile Industry ran Detroit at least as much, and really more so, than the mayors did.
So as the financial outlook became worse and worse for Detroit, more and more people began to leave and go elsewhere, beginning with those who had the most assets, and were therefore the most mobile. The middle classes left soon after the wealthy. And the poorest, having nowhere else to go, where left behind. Housing prices fell, police resources fell, so Detroit also began to attract other poor people, because they could live there cheaply and because the police where not aggressively looking for every day criminality, because of their dirth of resources.
conclusion to come…
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
…continuing
What happened in Detroit?
So today we have a high Black population in Detroit. Is that because the best and brightest Negros in America went there and attempted to create a Black-American government and this is the best they could come up with? Because that is not far from the common narrative among ignorant White people. Did Blacks take over a great American City and run it into the ground until all of the fair-minded Whites finally had enough and left? Is that what really happened?
No, it is not.
Detroit is in the state it is today because of stupid and greedy White people. Period.
– White people misread the events of 1973 and accordingly made the wrong decisions
– White people misread the potential of the Japanese Auto Manufacturing Industry
– White people made the decisions to ignore that the Japanese were beating them
– Mostly White people with high school diplomas demanded tip paying union jobs
– White Union Bosses straggled the golden goose that was the American Auto Industry
– White Mangers made continually bad management decisions, then left with their golden parachutes
– Then, when the host city had been sucked dry, the majority of the White people left.
So, who is responsible for the condition of Detroit? The poor people who are now left? Was it the Black mayors who could’t have even have been elected without the backing of the Auto Industry or the Unions?
LikeLike
william
You’re confusing two separate issues — the automotive industry and the city of Detroit — in order to scapegoat automakers and unions for Detroit’s problems. They affect one another but they are NOT the same. It’s true that unions had a stranglehold which harmed the automotive industry. But US automakers had 5 straight years of profitable sales growth from 1996-2000 and just had another 5 years of profitable sales growth.
According to Bloomberg: American Auto Sales Seen at Annual 16 Million With Profit
Business is good and American automakers are kicking foreign ass. Moreover, business was good in the late 90′ and Detroit was still going to hell. So why is Detroit doing so bad?
LikeLike
william
You’re confusing two separate issues — the automotive industry and the city of Detroit — in order to scapegoat automakers and unions for Detroit’s problems. They affect one another but they are NOT the same. It’s true that unions had a stranglehold which harmed the automotive industry. But US automakers had 5 straight years of profitable sales growth from 1996-2000 and just had another 5 years of profitable sales growth.
According to Bloomberg: American Auto Sales Seen at Annual 16 Million With Profit
Business is good and American automakers are kicking foreign butt. Moreover, business was good in the late 90′ and Detroit was still going to hell. So why is Detroit doing so bad?
LikeLike
william — Other pertinent information you may like to know about is that the first six most violent states by crime rates are all red states. S. Carolina, Tennessee, Nevada, Florida, Louisiana and Alaska. Red states are also the poorest states, have worse economies and like to complain about people on welfare but consume more Federal welfare money than Blue states.
If you dig into the demographic details of those red states you’ll find that the crime, poverty, welfare, etc is committed largely by black democrats living n those states not white republicans. Alaska has something else going on, though. It’s high violent crime rate is due largely to sexual assaults. In fact, Alaska and South Dakota have the two highest rape rates in the country. And it’s due largely to their Native American populations. Nice try, though.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-alaska-have-such-a-high-rate-rape-2013-9
Here in California the richest, ultra conservative, ULTRA WHITE Orange County, yes the entire county, went bankrupt in 1994.
Orange County went bankrupt because one of its supervisors borrowed billions of dollars and lost it in a stockmarket gamble. OC was out of bankruptcy is less than 2 years because there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the city/county to cause it. That’s not the case with Detroit.
>>
brothawolf — In any case, you and Rob are both very hung up on skin color as a prerequisite of success and failure. Is it a projection habit?
I’ve never said skin color was a prerequisite of success and failure. I’ve said that ability is. People of similar ability enjoy similar rates of success regardless of skin color.
>>
I am curious on where you got “70% functionally illiterate population,” when the stats I ran across actually say 47%.
You’re right, it’s 47%. I remembered a study about Detroit having a high rate of illiteracy. I confused it with another study that said 70% of inmates were illiterate.
LikeLike
Do you think that the inherited part of your definition is inherited along phenotypical “racial lines?” For example, you know how all Black people run fast? Or how we all sing well? Is it that kind of in inherited Black trait?
LikeLike
king
We can’t fully discuss that question without abagond deleting our comments as “off topic” on this thread. And, to be honest, I’m not interested in going in depth on that topic at the moment. I’d prefer to continue our discussion of Detroit. You wrote several long posts on Detroit and, when I replied, you immediately abandoned that topic for another. That’s uncool. You wanted to discuss Detroit so let’s discuss it.
LikeLike
What>\? Where did you reply?
LikeLike
king
I was responding to several people in another comment and addressed this one to william by accident. It’s to you.
http://washingtol.com/browse.php?u=1HwIBGXNaxWDXeIEDbVvcqS0y%2FDBVLx5ESm9j1p3wGS4sj1B378n7yIJrkL9hxberC8%3D&b=29
LikeLike
king
I was responding to several people in another comment and addressed this one to william by accident. It’s to you.
LikeLike
Idiota!!!
LikeLike
I’m still waiting on your response.
LikeLike
No, I’m not confusing two separate issues. I’m describing reality. The Unions and the Auto Industry in Detroit funded and therefore “selected” the local governments. If politicians did not reflect their views and policies, the funded a new opponent and withdrew funding from the offending candidate. On a practical level one was the outgrowth of the other.
Secondly, what time period did I say?
But even so, 5 years of profitable sales growth was only remarkable because of the tremendous prior declines. The Obama economy has also shown growth for the past three years … Does that mean we’ve returned to the Clinton era? American auto companies were not erased, just downsized. A lot of production is now done outside of the country (particularly Mexico).But as time progressed automation also made up for some of the losses, and of course if you cut enough people, eventually you might make your way back to profitability. NONE OF THAT IS THE POINT.
The point is that the events happened, as outlined above in 1973 and the decades that followed. The cost of making stupid mistakes were massive, and the effect on Detroit was permanent, and really had very little to do with Black pathology.
You can study any of this in any business school. The fact that the US auto manufacturers were pantsed by Japan for decades is not in dispute. The fact that the U.S. will never regain it’s former market share is not seriously debated by anyone.
LikeLike
What is “ability?” Is in acquired or inherited?
If you are white it is ‘acquired’, if you are black, you don’t have it. Your lack of ability is inherited according to this neurotic ahole!
LikeLike
Haha! I see that the part that the Conservative business people played has gone right over your head. It can happen all Wall Street but that’s an exception!! It didn’t happen in the Auto Industry! Incompetent capitalists were not being rewarded for making bad decisions, and then milking the investors (and later the taxpayers) with their company-killing sweetheart contracts.
LikeLike
I’m still waiting on your response.
Call 911, someone will respond!
LikeLike
@DaJokah….Excuses are not the point, the point is red states have not been able to curb violent crime and if you look at those blue states they have higher population of blacks and the blue states still have lower violent crime rates than red. It may be something about gun laws, it may be that in blue states we persevere to help out our impoverished citizens so they don’t have to turn to drugs, crime, etc…Remember poverty and crime go hand in hand and red states are notoriously poorer than blue states.
As far as Orange county, it was a mess and one man was the catalyst but greed was the cause. Citron was warned by his Democrat competitor that he was making bad investments and when he went public the conservative board blew it off as a Liberal ploy to get votes. The council saw dollar signs just as Citron did and so he was given the green light to continue his investments. Remember he had been voted into office 24 years prior and had been elected each and every election since, he was no newcomer thats for sure.There is nothing more despicable than when politicians use taxes like it is their Vegas mad money. This man saw dollar signs, he convinced his conservative council members once they saw the numbers if the interest rates go down. He invested billions of citizen monies and who lost, the people. George Bush used tax payer money to purchase the Texas Rangers and turned around and sold them for hundreds of millions of dollars and the tax payers never saw a dime of profit, George Bush became a multi-millionaire on his own, not needing Daddies money any longer. He did it all using poor peoples money and it made him richer than ever. There is no truer statement than “The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.” Of course there is no correlation between the two events other than they both used tax payer money but I thought I would mention the other to show the greed of a public official.
When a rich person uses tax payer money or investment money from the average person or the poor they are playing with a persons ability to live, eat, pay rent, etc. A person with everything who takes from a person who has little to nothing to gain more of everything with no regard for what those poor people had to go through to get their money or what they will do without it, is pure evil, a sociopath with only one direction, his!
LikeLike
LOL Herneith
LikeLike
king — I’m describing reality. The Unions and the Auto Industry in Detroit funded and therefore “selected” the local governments. If politicians did not reflect their views and policies, the funded a new opponent and withdrew funding from the offending candidate. On a practical level one was the outgrowth of the other.
No. You’re not describing reality. You’re scapegoating the auto industry for something caused by Coleman Young and supported by his black constituents.
Large numbers of southern blacks moved to Detroit in the 50’s. So the foundation for high crime were laid in the 50’s. But it was kept under control by very tough policing. After the 1967 riots, middle class whites (and blacks) started leaving the city for the suburbs. By 1973, enough had left the city to elect Coleman Young who absolutely was NOT working for the auto industry.
Steve Malanga wrote in his WSJ article, “The Real Reason the Once Great City of Detroit Came to Ruin”
During his 1974-1996 reign as Mayor, he went to war against whites and instituted all the policies that racist blacks clamor for. Is it any wonder new businesses didn’t relocate to Detroit? The only reason the auto industry didn’t pull out, too, is they were held hostage by the unions. Whenever they tried to build plants somewhere else the unions went on strike and shut the plants down.
LikeLike
william
Excuses are not the point, the point is red states have not been able to curb violent crime and if you look at those blue states they have higher population of blacks and the blue states still have lower violent crime rates than red.
Actually, you have both of those backwards. The red states in question have a higher percentage of blacks than blue states. And blacks in blue states have a higher crime rate than those in red states. So the reason red states have a higher overall crime rate is NOT because red state blacks have a higher crime rate but because red state blacks constitute a higher percentage of the population.
>
Re: Orange County. One guy blew it on risky investments and it cost taxpayers almost 2 billion dollars. But OC isn’t a mess and never was. You made a bad analogy by comparing OC to Detroit. Now you’re trying to switch the focus to something else. Just admit that OC isn’t Detroit and move on.
LikeLike
abagond
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Please approve the last two comments and not the first one. The first one has messed up html tags which I corrected in the second one. Thanks.
PS: Why are so many of my comments moderated?
LikeLike
@riverside Rob…..You mentioned South Carolina in an earlier post in response to crime and municipality failure and asked for Liberals or actually you were a bit more Racist about it with regards to skin color but I would like to bring to your attention the fact that South Carolina has the worse violent crime rate in the country….Let me also educate you on intelligence and red and blue states, blue states post higher IQ’s than red states across the board. Now lets look at it a bit deeper, see if you can keep up. Blacks, Latinos, Asians and 40% of all whites register Democrat. They believe in Liberal policies, they live in blue states, they vote for Liberal politicians, they study and have faith in Liberal economics and politics. They vote for them religiously. So this tells me that fundamentally and politically Blacks, Latinos and Liberal whites generally have a higher IQ or at least are much wiser than conservatives…After all only those with less wisdom and lower IQ’s would follow, push and believe in policies and politics that perpetually end up creating large territories of less intelligent people, failed economic policies, high welfare, high intake of government subsidies and high crime rates…The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again knowing it will produce the same results…Conservative policies are decades into failure…are they so stubborn that they would continue to bring about poverty and crime to their own states and citizens or will they one day lighten up and start to meet people in the middle, leaving any strict ideals at the door for the sake of the people.
LikeLike
@DaJokah…your so delusional dude, I never made a comparison between the two bankruptcy’s…I provided an instance where a large municipality ran by conservatives also failed, regardless of why, actually GREED and using tax payer money to fuel your greed is even worse than a group of people trying to manage a city over ran with poverty, no revenue and crime. If you ever want to know why i am posting something all you have to do is ask because if there is one thing I am not afraid of, it’s the TRUTH. You are so addicted to one upping each and every person on here you tend to lose focus on what you are reading and start your response well before understanding the post, you have done this with about 3 or 4 of my post now.
Maybe my literature is not so eloquent so spend a bit more time reading my stuff, I don’t have the higher education some of you have here so bare with me but don’t jump to conclusions…I will tell you if I meant what you are accusing me of if that indeed is what I did, remember this, I have zero reasons to lie to you, my ego gets stroked several times a day so when I come and speak on Julian’s site I leave it at the door…I suggest you do the same.
LikeLike
@DaJokah…
New York has the highest population of Black people in America with 3,073,800 and is the 19th most dangerous city by crimes rates. That means that there are 18 other states with higher crime rates with less Blacks, I guess it’s not Black people after all.
Florida has the second highest population at 2,999,862 and is the 4th most dangerous city by crime rates.
Cal has a population of 2,299,072 and is the 18th most dangerous.
Texas has a population of 2,979,598 and is the 7th most dangerous.
so there are the four most populated states by Black Americans and if anything this just blew your theory of why red states and blue states have lower/higher crime rates, it’s not Black people at all or if that were the case New York would be number one, Florida would be number two and so on….but there is another factor we may want to explore, in each state whites make up the greatest amount of people by population, coincidence, maybe not….
LikeLike
william
Was that comment to Riverside Rob or me?
but I would like to bring to your attention the fact that South Carolina has the worse violent crime rate in the country
South Carolina is ~30% black. So the higher overall crime rate is a function of a larger black population. Moreover, as I’ve already pointed out blacks in red states actually have lower crime rates than blacks in blue states. There’s just more of them in red states.
Why do you keep recycling the same failed arguments?
Let me also educate you on intelligence and red and blue states, blue states post higher IQ’s than red states across the board.
I think snopes debunked that as a hoax.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
Now lets look at it a bit deeper, see if you can keep up. Blacks, Latinos, Asians and 40% of all whites register Democrat.
Blacks and latinos have lower IQ’s. Asians and white Democrats tend to have higher IQs. So are Democrats right because of smart asians and white liberals? Or wrong because of dumb blacks and latinos? hmmm…
They believe in Liberal policies, they live in blue states, they vote for Liberal politicians, they study and have faith in Liberal economics and politics. They vote for them religiously.
That’s true.
So this tells me that fundamentally and politically Blacks, Latinos and Liberal whites generally have a higher IQ or at least are much wiser than conservatives
That’s not what it tells me. It tells me that blacks and latinos vote for welfare and that liberal white women vote for abortion.
Your mistake is in assuming that people vote for rational reasons. I’m not sure that’s true. Even if it were, most people aren’t that smart whether they’re Democrat or Republican.
But if you really want to know which political views “smart” people hold then why not look up a survey of smart people? Would you like to know what they found? Hint: They’re neither conservative nor liberal..
http://www.triplenine.org/poll/summary.htm
LikeLike
Thanks King for your insight of Detroit.
In 1960 Detroit had the highest capita of any city in the U.S.. In 1950 Detroit had 296,000 manufacturing jobs. Today less then 27,000.
We can thank our “free trade” policies for part of this drain in manufacturing.
Obama and the Democrats get credit for bringing the economy back from the stagnation a few years ago. But I’m not sure personally if a 16,000 DOW is really the measure of our success. It might be Wall Streets measure but not main streets measure.
Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton are responsible for pushing the free trade agreements that have out sourced Americas production at the detriment of American jobs. This has pushed the DOW up more then 10,000 points since free trade began but that only benefits a few.. Yet it is the barometer of a healthy economy. The question is who’s economy?
Good points William.
“so there are the four most populated states by Black Americans and if anything this just blew your theory of why red states and blue states have lower/higher crime rates, it’s not Black people at all or if that were the case New York would be number one, Florida would be number two and so on….”
William said “Maybe my literature is not so eloquent so spend a bit more time reading my stuff, I don’t have the higher education some of you have here so bare with me but don’t jump to conclusions.”
I never finished High school as well and my college consisted of yoga, archery and a welding class. lol It takes me awhile to write and I’m not sure if my grammar is always correct. I read it aloud to see if it sounds right and thank god for spell check.
LikeLike
@DaJokah… Like i said previously New York has the highest Black population and it is number 19th overall…DEBUNKED!
We weren’t speaking of the smartest people in the world we were speaking of red states and blue states and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out which states have citizens with higher IQ’s and which states have citizens with lower IQ’s, I can show you 10 sites or studies showing the IQ’s of conservatives compared to Liberals but thats just a waste of time just like trying to make any sense of your stumbling excuses and gibberish when someone points out a simple equation that completely proves your comment or scrambling theory obsolete…I decided to click on your snopes site and where did you get this John Kerry bullshit. With a billion websites what makes you think that every site you find with similar information is where I got my information. My information came from being politically active for the last 6 years and running acroos study after study of IQ reports and lots of Liberal rhetoric. You did the same thing when I spoke about the hate groups and that whites comprise 90% of the hate groups in America. You either LIED through your teeth about some fraudulent story or study or you found something completely unrelated to my findings. Do you know how I came to the conclusion that white hate groups make up 90% of all groups?….I counted each and every white group and every Black group and then I guestimated using my numbers, there were 2 black groups I could find, there were about 4 or 5 non race denomination groups and all the rest, 70+ that were white (numbers aren’t exactly accurate it has been several months since that moment). When you spoke about some story proving this statement was false I new at that moment you would do anything to “win” an argument, even lie.
I know over 500 Liberals on Facebook and not one is on government assistance but my Mom and my family was when I was a kid and my mom held a full time job every single day of my childhood and did not come home until 6pm at night while I watched my 5 year old brother, I was 8 yrs old. No one votes for $500 a month but people do vote for hope.
Besides intelligence is a limited commodity in the realm of life. You see you may have conventional intelligence but you lack even the smallest degree of wisdom. At this moment in your life you are incapable of using your intelligence, your wisdom and any empathy you may have as a collaborative tool, this is why you are flawed as a human being. You know doubt have parent issues coupled with relationship issues that keep you addicted to running to your computer and arguing with strangers. You are intelligent but you are limited by the myriad of dysfunctions that control your personality…. so you keep your goofy snopes site and I will stick to reality.
If you don’t like this comment then stop speaking like a pea brained racist when talking about POC.
LikeLike
@ Da Jokha
Apparently your smart people survey thinks that free trade with china is a good thing. Their not that smart as free trade is the rope were hanging ourselves by.
Maybe your a white guy with a high IQ who’s mad because you do OK. Logically you should have done much better for yourself.
I have an average IQ and no education but did well because I learned a trade and figured out how to work with people and built a business. Looking back now I see that being white helped.
LikeLike
william
You’re ranking states based on the size of their black population but rates are based on incidents committed per 100,000 people. None of the states you listed were even in the top 10 percentage-wise.
But I’m not going to get into some tit-for-tat over state percentages vs rates on this post. That horse has already been beaten to death. Everyone knows who has the higher rate. Deal with it.
You remind me of adonis. That’s not a good thing because he was dumb! LOL
LikeLike
michael
Re: Free trade with China. I don’t have a problem with free trade. I actually work overseas myself.
Maybe your a white guy with a high IQ who’s mad because you do OK. Logically you should have done much better for yourself.
I’ve done a little better than OK.
LikeLike
Well which event did Coleman Young start? Was it reaching .U.S. Peak Oil production in the early 1970s? Or was he in league with OPEC when they pursued the embargo? Oh! Perhaps he was secretly involved in the starting the Yom Kippur War?
…or is it your contention that the historic downsizing of the U.S. Auto industry (and it’s resulting jobs) had nothing at all to do with the collapses of “Motor City U.S.A.”? Where American auto jobs ever cut back and then outsourced? Did this effect the tax base of cities who’s entire income was based on the auto industry?
…Or did that stuff never really happen? Because the downfall of the city was due solely to the bad political choices of the Black mayor? Which do you think it is?
You seriously think I’m “scapegoating” the auto industry for destroying the economy of a city that relied almost 100% upon automobile money for it’s income? So let me get this straight… America had this shining city which was the center of their automobile empire. But sometime in the 1950’s Blacks arrived (at the same period another 300,00 Whites also arrived mostly from rural Appalachia and Southern States) And so the “foundation for high crime was set” because there were now Blacks around. In 1967 the same troublesome Blacks rioted (for no good reason) and the Whites had finally had it.
They decided to abandon their jewel of a Motor City and leave it entirely in the hands of the riotous Blacks. After all, once there is a riot, you just give away your city to the rioters, right? That’s American policy, isn’t it? All the sensible White people cleared out (because of a riot in 1967) NOT because of the economic reality of the bad choices they had made in their competition with Japanese automakers for the world auto market.
But then, there were riots in many major American cities in the 1960s. I wonder why Whites didn’t simply leave all of the American cities for Blacks to run? Is this really your interpretation?
LikeLike
It’s relatively cheap living in Romania, and it’s a good time and a good spot to do prospecting, once the Red Tape is handled. In fact, it doesn’t take much for a foreigner with half a brain and 2 pennies to rub together to do more than okay.
LikeLike
Sounds perfect for you, Jokah.
LikeLike
@Da Jokah
Brothawolf asked…..”So Jokah, tell me, are you successful?”
DaJokah….”I do alright..”
A few post later and this is the answer you get….
Michael said…..”Maybe your a white guy with a high IQ who’s mad because you do OK. Logically you should have done much better for yourself.”
DaJokah….”I’ve done a little better than OK.”
Successful people don’t have the time nor the inclination to sit in their moms basement arguing with not one, not two, not three but numerous people at a time for 16-18 hours a day….for the most part they just don’t care about people discussing race issues with each other on the internet and secondly they show more respect for other people than that….Otherwise they wouldn’t have achieved so much success…..
Dajokah….”You remind me of Adonis. That’s not a good thing because he was dumb! LOL”
That’s your response?….Wow….
Who is this Adonis guy? I like him already.
Remember what I said about egos…?
LikeLike
You’re scapegoating the auto industry for something caused by Coleman Young and supported by his black constituents.
Face it Ne6roes, it’s your fault! That is the gist of Jokah’s ‘debate’,. It is a waste of time ‘debating’ him. Can’t we all put him on blast?
LikeLike
You should just leave this blog entirely, you contribute nothing.
That’s his whole point. Rile people up and enjoy the fallout from those who chose to ‘debate’ him. Disregard him or mock him, he isn’t worth the thought or energy that goes into ‘debating’ him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he shows his posts to his buddies on some white supremacist blog or forum for sh8ts and giggles.
LikeLike
king — You seriously think I’m “scapegoating” the auto industry for destroying the economy of a city that relied almost 100% upon automobile money for it’s income?
Yes, I do. The auto industry’s business is business. It’s not their responsibility to prop up a city. It’s the mayor’s job to provide that leadership. Instead, Coleman Young saw businesses and white tax payers as sheep to be sheared. He rammed integration down whites;’ throats while simultaneously hating them and picking their pockets. He stuffed the city’s payroll with corrupt supporters, turned a blind eye to violent crime and chased away business with anti-business attitudes. He should have scrapped his racial agenda, cracked down on corruption and crime and created a pro-business environment to attract new industry.
>>
william
It doesn’t take much time or effort to school you losers.
LikeLike
George — You should just leave this blog entirely, you contribute nothing.
You should lick the dew off my daisy.
LikeLike
@Da Jokah
I’m curious on if Young actually did turn a blind eye to crime or if this is a theory you have?
“In 1965, nine years before Young was elected mayor, Detroit experienced an upwards trajectory of its homicide rate. In 1974, the year Young took office, the homicide rate in Detroit was slightly above 50 homicides per 100,000. Throughout the rest of the 1970s, Detroit’s homicide rate trended downward, going below 40 homicides per 100,000 in 1977 and 1979. In 1980, Detroit saw a steep increase in its homicide rate, in which it peaked at 63.5 homicides per 100,000 in 1987. In 1994, the year Young retired from office, the homicide rate was roughly 54 homicides per 100,000”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_Young#Corruption
The crime rate was high before he was elected into office. So he basically walked into a high crime situation (though interesting enough you were ready to excuse Mike Duggan who is equally finding himself in a similar situation). So My question is what makes you think he hated white people and what policies were not pro-business?
These questions are open to anyone. Though I am sure king you will do a great job at clarifying this responds.
LikeLike
@william
“It doesn’t take much time or effort to school you losers.”—Look at it and laugh because frankly the opposite is true. Difference is that he gets schooled and continues to talk with the delusion that he is schooling someone, when in most cases he gets school and the individual that schools him is done.
For example he is getting school by king and thus far is using his opinions to validate why a situation in Detroit is one way or the other.
LikeLike
kiwi
I must really bother you if you are spending countless hours digging through year old posts looking for coincidences to prop up your delusions. That’s awesome! LOL
LikeLike
Da Jokah sounds like he could be a member of the Tea Party.
LikeLike
Ah Kiwi, you are a Genius! I have been looking for that for days now!
You see, I thought that I had had that conversation with Da Jokah, for some odd reason.
He even helped me to search for it (but didn’t find it).
Strange that he didn’t say, “What? We never had that conversation!
Oh well….
LikeLike
You should lick the dew off my daisy.
_ _ _
ROTFL!
Oh, wow, that’s a good one!
LikeLike
sharina — “I’m curious on if Young actually did turn a blind eye to crime or if this is a theory you have?”
From the previously referenced article on Coleman young:
LikeLike
Oh, wow, that’s a good one!
LikeLike
Meh. I’ve had lots of arguments about Dtroit. I’m sure king has too. It’s a fairly common topic. Not surprising we got them confused
LikeLike
@ Da Jokah
The article you mention is located in The wallstreet Journal Opinion section. I am all for opinions as they are great and everyone seems to have one, but I was looking for more hardcore proof that this was the case. So far you are going on one man opinions of the situation and using it as a source to facts of the situation. If you have more than this I am interested in seeing it but until then I will post your source and it’s original location.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle.htm?id=9464#.UxE4K_us88c
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324110404578625581152645480?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424127887324110404578625581152645480.html
LikeLike
@Kiwi
I became suspicious when a comment was made that only former posters would know and he was fairly new at the time. There was also other things as well along the lines of only former individuals would know, but I figured if he went to the trouble to return then it is none of my business.
LikeLike
You gotta love Sharina’s brain. 🙂
LikeLike
Great forensics, Kiwi!
I agree!
LikeLike
I must really bother you if you are spending countless hours digging through year old posts looking for coincidences to prop up your delusions.
Kiwi is on Spring break so he has a lot of time to post much as you do in your mother’s basement. Invest in Vaseline and Kleenex you one hand typist and mind your betters!
LikeLike
Well hello Churches!
@everyone else; After a while the white racist/realist ‘debates’ begin to sound the same, who cares which racist jacka$$ is expounding these ‘theories’?
LikeLike
Haha! Herneith is right, of course.
LikeLike
@ Kiwi
Oh, don’t you trust that Legion!
I strongly suspect him of being a web womanizer!!!
But, of course he has good taste, so I one can forgive him his excesses.
LikeLike
Or did he say “most beautiful”?
Kiwi and King, you fellas are trying to get me in some trouble! If Kiwi is enough of a detective to uncover Jokah’s shenanigans then I’m sure he knows how far my superlatives did or did not go with regard to Sharina. 🙂
I strongly suspect him of being a web womanizer!!!
But, of course he has good taste, so I one can forgive him his excesses.
Sheesh! A guy can’t pay a compliment now and then. Or, even super often when it comes to Bulanik. 😀
LikeLike
^ How does he find things so quickly???
LikeLike
Every person has a literary “fingerprint”, so you can find patterns in their writing which distinguishes them from others.
So true.
LikeLike
How does he find things so quickly???
Ninja lessons since age 6! 😀
LikeLike
kiwi,
Now that you’ve pointed out the similarities, Jokah did remind me of Churchs, but I paid no mind. I briefly remember Churches bring up the subject of Detroit once. Jokah’s focus on Detroit is something that racists (I’m going to call them racists, not race realists because there’s really no difference between the two) love to bring up, along with African nations and Haiti, anything to show that blacks are incapable of governing themselves or other people. Black inferiority is their mantra. Right wing conservatism, Tea Party politics and white supremacy are their security blankets.
LikeLike
AHerneithuys talking about me? Thank you! 🙂
@Legion
Speaking of Bulanik where has she disappeared to lately?
@Herenith
Exactly! I was in denial that white racist could possibly argue the same thing over and over again, but I was WRONG.
LikeLike
I believe the fact that Abagond is unaware that they are sock puppets is testament to his own intelligence and most of all, his integrity.
Maybe he wishes to provide his readers with comic relief also!
And yet, he accuses Abagond of being a hypocrite. Churchs/Da Jokah is despicable.
Jokah is a cunning stunt, I’ll give him that!
LikeLike
“AHerneithuys”—-That most certainly came out cooky. lol
Was suppose to read…Are you guys talking about me?
LikeLike
This is about as naïve a piece of sloppy thinking as can be offered.
Where does a city get it’s revenue? It’s paycheck? It’s operating money? Every Conservative know this—it’s from TAXES. So where do taxes come from? Well, first, they come from businesses who operate in the city, right? And also they come from people who live in the city (and usually work there at the businesses who do business in the city),
So the city government is FUNDED by businesses to a large degree. But there is a balance in most cities because there are many businesses there and revenues come in from many industries, so that no single industry has a predominant role in effecting policy. This is Civics 101 folks… nothing here that a wet-faced freshman would not learn in Community College.
But some towns and cities were raised upon a single industry. “Coal towns” would be an example of this, where all the money flows from the coal company into the town government. In such a town, town officials cannot effectively fight the policies of the coal company because everyone in the town is directly or indirectly paid by “coal money” from the Mayor to the waitress at the diner.
Now, in the case of Detroit, there were certainly more industries in the city than just Automobiles. But MOST of them were auto-related in some way. Suffice to say that the auto industry (and related support industries) provided a sufficiently large slice of the revenue pie for the city that no mayor or administration could be truly separate from their influence or could afford to spurn their favor. In other words the way that government runs in towns with a strong imbalance toward a single business interest is that the wall of separation between government / business is a much weaker and more porous membrane than would otherwise be the case.
So, all of that explain that while Churchs known where to go to be spoon fed Conservative pablum, his grasp of how things work is lacking, and he believes himself to be much smarter than he actually is on these subjects.
Let’s just save time and not go point for point on this “opinion.” Instead, let’s just apply the test of elementary logic, shall we?
Detroit is and was the world headquarters or General Motors
in the 1970s GM Auto Brands included:
GMC
Chevrolet
Pontiac
Buik
Oldsmobile
Cadillac
as well as separate brands marketed only outside of the U.S.
So this was not “a car company” this was THE CAR INDUSTRY. Now, according the Churchs, what happened was that somehow, ‘Motor City’ accidentally got into the hands of the Negros! Coleman Young became mayor because Black had come to Detroit and pushed out all the Whites with their bad behavior and a Black mayor then took over and started punishing the Whites even more! In fact, his policies overthrew the city and destroyed it’s financial viability.
Now, let me ask you all an intelligent question: Do you really think that GM would have let that happen? How many lobbyists did GM have? How much money, did GM have? How many connections to powerful people did GM have?
Was the Black mayor, Coleman Young and his cabal of Black “corrupt supporters” really so much more powerful than the wealthy White, and connected leadership of GM—so much so that they could do nothing to stop him, and could not prevent further like-minded Black mayors from being elected to further destroy their city and their business? Was a Black mayor’s political power really THIS STRONG in 1974? I think we all know the rather obvious answer to that. -This is what comes of reading thing without THINKING about them.-
However, if in fact the decline of Detroit was due to the policies and mistakes of the powerful fools who were calling the shots at GM, then the scenario begins to make much more sense. The question is, which side you think is logically being scapegoated?
LikeLike
king — Now, in the case of Detroit, there were certainly more industries in the city than just Automobiles. But MOST of them were auto-related in some way. Suffice to say that the auto industry (and related support industries) provided a sufficiently large slice of the revenue pie for the city that no mayor or administration could be truly separate from their influence or could afford to spurn their favor.
Until unions hijack the company. Then the unions control the local government because everyone in town either works for the union or has a relative who does. Throw in the racial dynamic and Detroit has been dominated by unions and blacks since 1974.
>>
Also. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t refer to me as someone I am not. I have nothing against Churchs but I consider it a smear to imply that I’m a sock puppet. Furthermore, it violates this blog’s comment policy that “Comments should be about the post or other comments, not about commenters!” It’s nothing more than a a cheap way to harass me and dismiss my ideas without considering them. Therefore, I request that abagond add “Churchs” to the list of moderated words.
LikeLike
King said
“Did Blacks take over a great American City and run it into the ground until all of the fair-minded Whites finally had enough and left? Is that what really happened?
No, it is not.”
Detroit is in the state it is today because of stupid and greedy White people. Period.
Ok King, Excellent synopsis of the business history and failures of Auto Exec decision makers. Now, how do explain the equivalent decline of Baltimore? No major industry changes there, but the election of black Politicians, lead to the appointment of black police commissioners and prosecutors who stopped policing “their people” Baltimore is cesspool today because of stupid and criminal black people. Period.
How do explain the NON equivalent path of Pittsburgh, which witnessed the steep decline of the American of steel business (easily a tougher blow than the auto industry took). If it’s all about economics, shouldn’t Pittsburgh have gone into the death spiral that Detroit and Baltimore are in? The difference is demographics.
LikeLike
@Da Jokah
“Comments should be about the post or other comments, not about commenters!”—And you play victim-hood and invoke the comment policy once again. Did you care for this when you were being the harasser? No. So why should abagond care now that you are being harassed? I think it is “your just deserts” at this point.
LikeLike
Riverside_Rob
I am curious on why you are trying to compare Detroit (don’t know much about baltimore) to Pittsburgh. Even though they both suffered major loses, I don;t believe Pittsburgh actually put all of their eggs into one basket as Detroit did.
“Despite the economic turmoil, civic improvements continued. In the mid-1970s, Arthur P. Ziegler, Jr. and the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation (Landmarks) wanted to demonstrate that historic preservation could be used to drive economic development without the use of eminent domain or public subsidies. Landmarks acquired the former terminal buildings and yards of the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad, a 1-mile (1.6 km) long property at the base of Mt. Washington facing the City of Pittsburgh. In 1976, Landmarks developed the site as a mixed-use historic adaptive reuse development that gave the foundation the opportunity to put its urban planning principles into practice. Aided by an initial generous gift from the Allegheny Foundation in 1976, Landmarks adapted five historic Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad buildings for new uses and added a hotel, a dock for the Gateway Clipper fleet, and parking areas. Now shops, offices, restaurants, and entertainment anchor the historic riverfront site on the south shore of the Monongahela River, opposite the Golden Triangle (Pittsburgh). Station Square is Pittsburgh’s premiere attraction generating over 3,500,000 visitors a year. It reflects a $100 million investment from all sources, with the lowest public cost and highest taxpayer return of any major renewal project in the Pittsburgh region since the 1950s. In 1994, Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation sold Station Square in to Forest City Enterprises which created an endowment to help support its restoration efforts and educational programs. Each year the staff and docents of Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation introduce more than 10,000 people – teachers, students, adults, and visitors – to the architectural heritage of the Pittsburgh region and to the value of historic preservation.[78]
In 1985, the J & L Steel site on the north side of the Monongahela river was cleared and a publicly subsidized High Technology Center was built. The Pittsburgh Technology Center, home to many major technology companies, is planning major expansion in the area soon.[24] In the 1980s, the “Renaissance II” urban revitalization created numerous new structures, such as PPG Place. In the 1990s, the former sites of the Homestead, Duquesne and South Side J&L mills were cleared.[24] In 1992, the new terminal at Pittsburgh International Airport opened.[24] In 2001, the aging Three Rivers Stadium was replaced by Heinz Field and PNC Park, despite being rejected by voter referendum.[79]”
Long but worth reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pittsburgh#Steel_City_.281859.E2.80.931946.29
LikeLike
@Kiwi
Exactly. All I can do is smh.
LikeLike
Oh and a bit of an FYI @Da jokah. You can get banned for:
Repeatedly violating the comment policy
A nice little tidbit in the comment policy you may have overlooked and you have left enough proof over the space of this blog to have that enforced.
LikeLike
Riverside_Rob
All you’re saying is just the usual, that it’s because of black people that those cities you’ve mentioned are in a depressed state because something’s wrong with black people because they’re black people. All it is is scapegoating based on nothing more than skin color, avoiding realistic causes. How pathetic. Very pathetic. Yet, it’s very typical of you and others like you.
And in case you and your pal Jokah hasn’t realized, and I got caught up in this myself, I admit, this subject is about the situation in North Carolina, not about your latest in a series of fruitless attempts to argue that we’re inferior.
LikeLike
don’t miss the forest for the trees!
LikeLike
@DaJokah…..”It doesn’t take much time or effort to school you losers.”
Still trying to fill that void in your life normally filled with mutual respect from peers and family members, huh?….actually that is sad and you have my sympathy but unless you change you will never have my respect…..No matter how many times you tell yourself and the rest of the world that we do.
LikeLike
@DaJokah….You kick and scream when someone comes up with a witty quip about you but you overlook your inability to control your tongue when it comes to an entire culture of people. Let me give you some examples of your utter lack of respect and your racist remarks;
1. Blacks are lousy customers and commit more crime….
2. Because blacks are a pain the a$$ who don’t tip….
4. Their conclusion is that blacks are just assholes….
5. Blacks are dumber thats all there is to it…
So grow up and stop being a racist and acting like a spoiled brat. or take some of your own advice and leave!
LikeLike
@ Riverside_Rob
Thank you.
First, Baltimore is not one big cesspool. It has problems, yes. But there are bad neighborhoods and rather good middle-class neighborhoods as well. It just so happens that my Aunt has lived in Baltimore since the 1970s. Her neighborhood is immaculate. She and her husband are actually is pretty well off. So blanket statements and blind assumptions will not serve you well here.
There are bad parts of Baltimore (particularly by the waterfront) but that does not define the entire city. There is elevated crime in the bad parts, of the city, there is very little crime in the good parts – the demographic majority in both cases are Black. So obviously melanin is not responsible for the crime, right?
Do you want me to explain what the situation is in Baltimore?
Or is that enough?
LikeLike
william — Let me give you some examples of your utter lack of respect and your racist remarks;
All of which were true.
LikeLike
^I’m sure it is in your mind. Which is why one must not give much thought to what you say.
LikeLike
Hello Abagond,
Those trolls and sock pockets came here to derail the very important conversation that affect the lives of millions of Americans, not just North Carolinians. Moral Monday is needed because lives of Americans are at stake. Some of those posters want to take us back to the 18th century when people of Color, working/middle class and the poor were subordinated to the upper class/aristocracy of the time, when non-Christians are persecuted and driven away from various American/European lands, when women are being put in their “place.”
The policies of Gov. Pat McCrory, Art Pope, the Koch Brothers, and the right wing Republicans are doing exactly that. Those posters just don’t get it or are so blind by their racial/gender/class biases that they don’t want to acknowledge the realities of today’s society.
That’s my two cents.
Stephanie B.
LikeLike
The purpose of Moral Monday is to make sure that society deals with all people, not just a small, narrow minority that is taking over the political and economic decision of NC.
I’m glad that Rev. Barber stands up for the least of us instead of taking the money and living high on the hog like so many preachers do.
I’m glad Rev. Barber speaking truth to power and not bowing down to pressure.
To heck with McCrory, Tillis, Berger, and the rest who think like them! Their satanic policies are ruining the state as I type.
S. Baldwin, a.k.a. La Reyna and Stephaniegirl
LikeLike
Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
Those trolls and sock pockets came here to derail the very important conversation that affect the lives of millions of Americans, not just North Carolinians. Moral Monday is needed because lives of Americans are at stake. Some of those posters want to take us back to the 18th century when people of Color, working/middle class and the poor were subordinated to the upper class/aristocracy of the time, when non-Christians are persecuted and driven away from various American/European lands, when women are being put in their “place.”
The policies of Gov. Pat McCrory, Art Pope, the Koch Brothers, and the right wing Republicans are doing exactly that. Those posters just don’t get it or are so blind by their racial/gender/class biases that they don’t want to acknowledge the realities of today’s society.
LikeLike
Anybody have any update on where the Moral Mondays are going?
Anyhow, while looking up some information on Asian American filmmakers while we are in Asian Pacific American Heritage Month, I found a fascinating link back to Moral Mondays.
In 2010, the Coffee Party, USA was founded as an antithesis to the Tea Party by 2 Asian-American filmmakers, Hapa (Chinese-white) Eric Byler and Korean-American Annabel Park, both from suburban DC.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Party_USA)
I found out that they had collaborated to put together a documentary project entitled “The Story of America” in 2012, and 4 months prior to the launch of Moral Mondays, they interviewed Rev. Dr. William Barber, the man who launched Moral Mondays.
In this 7:36 min video, he gives a good summary behind his thinking prior to the launch of Moral Mondays.
Rev. Dr. William Barber: The 3rd Reconstruction
(https://youtu.be/Zoo3GEfhPwo)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfqodWKLTJg)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTln_7ifMI)
September 30th, 2015 – The day after the Republican-led NC General Assembly passes the worst anti-immigration legislation in the nation, North Carolinians gather at the State Capitol to urge Gov. McCory to veto the bill.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8gl-z7ylo)
October 10th, 2015 – In his annual “The State of the State of Civil Rights” address, North Carolina NAACP President, Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II details the devastating policies that are affecting North Carolinians and makes a stern charge to the state membership at the 72nd Annual Convention for the NAACP state conference.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqfXsHqiwy0)
September 30th, 2015 – A courageous young boy speaks on the steps of the State Capitol of North Carolina and pleads with Governor McCory to veto the worst immigration bill in the country.
In both Pat McCrory’s and Donald Trump’s white supremacist/misogynistic/classist world, Latinos aren’t white and are treated badly. Neither are Middle Eastern people as evidenced from the lack of sympathy by Gov. McCrory at the Chapel Hill murders.
Racist Senator Thom Tillis of NC, like the late Sen. “No” Jesse Helms doesn’t even consider Southern and Eastern Europeans as white. Please read Tillis’ racist comments about ‘traditional American’ population of NC. That includes Hispanics/Latinos, Arab/Middle Easterners, Hindu/East Indians, Asian/Pacific Islander, Carribean, African, Armenia, Italian, Greek, Brazilian, Romanians, Portuguese, Hungarian, Russian, Jewish, Native Americans, Mixed ethnicity, Lumbees, Melugeons, Blacks, etc.
The Jesse Helms hateful legacy lives on in NC through its government and corporations/academia/police state thanks to Pat McCrory, Thom Tillis, Phil Berger, Art Pope, Bob Dumas, and Bill James.
LikeLike
The Adelante Education Coalition, leadership of the NC NAACP and members of the Forward Together Moral Movement stand in solidarity with Latino/a brothers and sisters to demand equal access to public higher education in North Carolina. The 9th annual “No Room At the Inn” news conference and march evokes the seasonal story of Mary and Joseph to highlight the injustice of barring people access to care because of where they were born.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXehF9qWbPc)
LikeLike