No one won the first 2012 American presidential debate on October 3rd 2012 between President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney. They were both terrible.
I thought Obama was going to destroy Romney. Because Romney over the past few weeks seemed lost. Swing states were slipping away from him – even Tennessee was weakening! On the night before the debate Fox News stepped up the race-baiting, which smelled desperate.
I forgot that Romney did well in the debates earlier in the year against Republicans.
I forgot that Obama has never been a great debater. He gives great speeches but that is not the same thing: you can spend hours or days getting a speech just right. In debates you have minutes not hours or days to think of the right thing to say.
I also forgot that Obama does not like to go in for the kill. He likes to remain calm and cool and play nice with everyone. He avoids direct showdowns – even when he knows he can win. This helps him to avoid the Angry Black Man trope.
But even given all that, Obama still did terribly:
- his head was down much of the time,
- he bored us with too many numbers,
- he talked like he was still in Washington, not like he was talking to undecided voters who have no idea what Simpson-Bowles or Dodd-Frank are.
Maybe his mind was elsewhere – it was his 20th wedding anniversary. That is the best face I can put on it.
But while Obama did not win neither did Romney. Unless you count boldly telling lies with confidence as some kind of victory. Unless you count disrespecting the moderator as some kind of victory. He was like someone who cheats at a game and then tells everyone he won. Wow. If I am allowed to lie and not listen to the moderator, if it is all a matter of confidence and not content, then I could “win” too.
I was never a huge fan of Romney, but now I trust him even less. Apparently the ends justify the means for him – which means he is evil.
I know that does not sound “fair and balanced”, but I have lived long enough to tell when someone is a bad apple. Romney is a bad apple. Remember, this is the man who went to France and lived in a mansion rather than serve his country in war. This is the man who hides his money in the Cayman Islands rather than pay his fair share of taxes. And then has the nerve to say he “loves” America.
What a complete slimeball.
Just the kind who would fire Big Bird.
Plenty of interesting things have been said about this debate but I will put those in the links below and go with my emotional rant instead – in most cases that turns out to be truer in the end.
See also:
- TWIB Radio – excellent discussion, all 49 minutes of it. Covers the Angry Black Man trope.
- Angry Black Lady Chronicles: The Gish Gallop and the Backfire Effect – a good breakdown of Romney’s debating style (the Gish Gallop – flooding the debate with lies) and why any attempt by Obama to call him a liar would have backfired!
- Mother Jones: Why Obama Didn’t Mention the 47 Percent Video
- Obama’s Other Race Speech – which Fox News aired the night before, setting up an Angry Black Man trope for the debate
- The Sarah Palin Kool Aid Drinking Society – the VP debate in 2008
- Romney 2012
- The second debate
- The third debate
So disappointed in the President’s performance last night. I felt he had several opportunities to rip Romney a new one, but instead he was tepid and dull. For me, last night almost had the same effect as the day Obama provided his birth certificate — which was like watching that scene in Roots where Kunta Kinte, after being beaten senseless, finally relents and says Toby.
Rolling Stone has several great articles about the real Romney. I encourage everyone to take a moment and read them. This one on his tenure at Bain Capital is quite telling:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829
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[…] No one won the first 2012 American presidential debate on October 3rd 2003 between President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney. They were both terrible. – MORE – […]
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I thought Romney won. Political debates are not just about “facts”. They are also about communicating your viewpoint and readiness to be President to likely voters. Romney did a good job at connecting the President to the past 3.5 yrs of slow growth. The President looked bored, peevish and tired. His body language reeked of submission and irritation. Romney was direct and optimistic. The President was rusty and clearly didn’t like being challenged. It’s one thing to practice and something very different when someone is coming at your neck. Romney was Clubber Lang and the President was Rocky. Like Mike Tyson said, “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face”.
All that said it was just ONE debate. I think the President was out of shape and will come back a LOT more focused and ready to go in two weeks. I think Romney will have his full attention next time. Plenty of incumbent Presidents have had poor showings at the first debate. We’ll know next week whether the debate had any impact on polls or not. There are also some people, who for whatever reason get easily bored and like to build up unnecessary challenges for themselves. This may be the President. Unless he gets rolled in debate 2, I wouldn’t start jumping ship were I a supporter.
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I’m not dissappointed at all. Why should the show be more important than the substance? That’s really stupid. And if an American hasn’t heard of Simpson-Bowls or Dodd-Frank maybe they should reconsider voting. You shouldn’t just focus on politics around election time. When you actually watch what happens week by week, you’ll have an easier time deciphering fact from fiction, considering you get your news from legitimate sources
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I agree with dee in that I wasn’t looking for much (if anything) from the debate. Romney pretty much showed who he is and you’d have to have a pretty low IQ/attention span to fall for it.
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I don’t think Romney won. He put on a performance puffed up with lies and alpha male posturing, as if he had been coached by that douche Bill O’Reilly. Most people may pay more attention to body language and composure and aggressiveness and call it a win, but Romney told bold lies, interrupted and repeated those lies over and over and over again. I agree with Abagond, he is a bad apple. We will find, in the weeks to come, that Obama and the American people will be the victors. Now, while the right was all giddy with their man’s performance the other night, they need to remember it’s only round one. One more thing: Mr. Obama is obviously an introvert. That’s why he’s is not as good with going off the cuff and why he is reluctant to go for the jugular (in addition to avoiding the aggressive black male stereotype). I think that his temperament makes him a better leader for that. He’s more measured and thoughtful and truly wants to do the right thing for America. Romney just wants power, he’s evil and a bully true to the story of him bullying the gay kid he went to school with. I heard that poor man has yet to recover from the incident.
@Dee – I agree with you entirely. On substance, Mr. Obama won for those paying attention and who have been paying attention. I wouldn’t get so happy on the right about Romney. His performance will no make up for his lies. This is the information age. Full time FOX viewers may be fooled, but the rest of us are not.
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From what I’ve seen of the debate was enough to put me to sleep. It was that boring and predictable. Obama was trying not to be the “angry black man” stereotype making his coolness seem more like timidness. Romney appeared as the “angry white man” which, to the people at Fox News and the jollu conservative right, appear more “reasonable” and American. Of course it is, he needs to get that Kenyan, Muslim liberal out of office because he wasn’t born in this country.
Obama is trying way to hard to please people on both sides, and it is hurting him more than helping. But on the other hand, if he stepped out of that box, people will start hating and fearing him even more for being aggressive and outspoken. You know, the “angry black man” stereotype. So, the lesson is that even as the President of the United States, a black man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
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I felt that Romney was a blithering idiot. I felt like all he did was spout memorized talking points that were vaguely on topic but always meandered off into nothingness. Nothing Romney said was of substance. He wasn’t masterful, he was rude. He wasn’t knowledgeable, he was uninformed. He also reversed himself on so many positions that he has taken over the past months, let alone the last year it was pathetic to watch.
President Obama was thoughtful, answered the questions asked and he seemed sincere. What I almost felt was that the President wanted to tell Romney: if you want this effing job you can have it, but I can tell you, not only is not all it’s cracked up to be, but you’re going to suck at it worse than anyone. even W.
President Obama knows what’s at stake. Like John Kerry a few years ago, he knows the choice is obvious, but he knows that America doesn’t always make the obvious choice. And I think he felt just a little…weighed down by being the one who is actually holding the office of President. To m, his head down wasn’t a symbol of defeat but one I see my people do a lot when they’re just sick of explaining shit they’ve already explained and now they have to do it again. And they’re still gonna have to do it some more. It’s a weariness of bearing the truth that is palpable.
The Barack of the most recent debate was not the Barack of 2007. Now he knows what he knows and it is what it is – and he’s fighting not just for the office but for the soul of this country.
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I honestly hoped for more in that debate, though I’m glad Romney fudged it up too. I honestly never liked him, but what little respect I held for him evaporated the second the Republican primary debates started. Even with my faith in our President being as shaky as it is, I still think he’s overall less unhealthy than another right-wing lunatic.
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I never liekd Romney. He seems too pliable and lacking principles. He’s seems like the kind of person who’ll tell you what he thinks you want to hear with no intention to follow through.
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He was thinking about his aniversary. And getting with the First Lady. LoL. On a serious note I think Romney is a lying snake. Don’t trust him he is very dangerous.
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*anniversary* typo above
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The sad thing is there are a lot of people who identify with that crap “white man rage” Romney displayed there, even ones who don’t have two pennies to rub together but we’ll see how this election goes. He displays the symptoms of a sociopath and he’s so cushioned and out of touch he can’t even pretend to be in the know.
Obama is in a tight spot. All these people who are on the “He didn’t do nothin’!” bandwagon are just so sad, But we knew if he wasn’t “Super Negro” who turned the country around in one term, overcoming racists and bipartisan bs he would be deemed a failure.
This whole thing is a circus.
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Obama without his beloved teleprompter is a very sad thing to hear.
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@ Peanut
OMG. Thanks!
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Obama ad on Romney’s lies during the debate (two days later):
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” just the kind who would fire big bird”
This is so accurate and typical for those “me me me first!” kind of soulless people. I was actually giggling when I read it.
@ Peanut
As an outsider from Europe I must say that PBS is one of the 2-3 watchable TV channels of all the US has to offer. They seem to be the only ones who have a genuine interest in broader education. This is obviously a sore spot for the reactionaries who know well that uneducated people are much easier to manipulate and exploit.
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is either one going to help the “regular” people is yet to be seen
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I will say this I am suspicious of Romney………..But Obama lied about alot of what he ran for. He had my vote in 08 …………..but i’m undecided now.. It has nothing to do with his race but has he done enough to be reelected?……… I would say no. Romney gives me concerns as well though. Maybe were f…ded either way.
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Coming after Big Bird really? Now that just triffling. Mitt Romney is so out of touch with the American people.
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Wow, they cranked that ad out in record time.
Honestly, I’d find this man hilarious if it wasn’t for how close he was to winning the presidency. That’s something I find terrifying.
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Linda says,
What got highlighted for me was the power of Congress and how Obama seemed powerless to stop the well-oiled machine from coming to a screeching halt because the main players decided to go on stike.
I was more disappointed in him because he didn’t b’tch slap (figuratively) the Repubicans that were outright disrespecting him…no way would Bush or Clinton have let that sh’t pass without some behind the door payback.
I don’t really like either candidate, so for me it, comes down to what makes financial common sense.
Romney/Republicans don’t want to raise revenue, they wish to save money by cutting line items from the budget…does that make sense during a financial crisis, when money needs to be raised within a short period of time.
Example: My son is going to college and I want to pay the $40,000 in cash. I have 3 years to raise the money.
If I use Obamas plan, then I would
(A) Maintain my full-time job and also get a part-time job (bringing in addditional revenue) and also,
(B) make cut-backs in my household expenses–get rid of extra cell phones, pay off high-intererst credit cards, no more eating out, etc. — so I have money coming in the front door and the back door.
If I use Romney/Republican plan, I would
(A) Only make household cut-backs with no additional revenue coming into the house, so me saving money to put aside would take longer than 3 years, and if I have a crisis — like loose my full-time job, I’m screwed.
Romney is a successful business man, so he needs to start showing it because right now, he just looks like a well-trained parrot.
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This post is more boring and less illuminating than the debate, you can do better A
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Honestly I was very disappointed in Pres. Obama’s performance. He looked like as if he didn”t even want to be there and Romney looked engaged and debated.
Sad to say but I actually thought Romney did a good job at the debate. He was very engaged in the debate and he had very good answers.
And this is coming from me- a young Black girl from a single parents home. I am NOT a fan of Romney at all yet I felt he did a good job. I don’t like Romney at all, don’t think I do.
Pres. Obama didn’t live up to alot of his promises partially because Republicans in Congress are trying to stop him from doing anything to help the country. Plus Pres. Obama is human and no one is perfect.
@Linda, it is nice you outlined Romney and Obama’s plan. I don’t care for either Pres. Obama or Romney but if I had to choose, I would choose the president. I think Pres. Obama has some of the qualities of a good president but the Republicans are doing the best they can to stop him and make him a one term president.
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My opinion is that President Obama did just fine, with what he had to work with.
What Romney was doing is this tactic known as the “Gish Gallop.” Basically the user of this method sends out a high-pressure stream of bullshit and “facts,” without ever stopping to elaborate or expand on any of them. They’re just spewed out in rapid succession. This has the benefit of making the user of the gallop look informed, while at the same time bogging the opponent down as they try to counter individual claims. Ultimately it’s a setup for the old “You can’t answer this! Therefore I’m right!” fail argument so loved by the ignorant and the conservative (tomayto, tomahto.)
The best response to this barrage of trivial trivia is to just let it be. If there’s something worth mention in there, pick it out, and use it to illustrate your own position, rather than getting sucked into a pointless back-and-forth over minutae.
This is pretty much what president Obama did. Not perfectly 0 he did get sucked into some minutae – but generally, he avoided the Gish Gallop bog-down, and stayed on point.
Romney never SAID anything. He was just doing this trick, trying to lure some sort of reaction, some “AHA!” moment. Obama wasn’t there to play Romney’s game, though.
Another thing… Romney was running roughshod over both president Obama and the moderator, Jim Lehrer. Now, the rules of a debate really don’t hold together if a participant refuses to follow them; the moderator can’t really tell the guest to shut their yap, nor can he argue their “facts,” as that would basically be doing the other guy’s role. A debate like this requires the participants to hold fast to their time limits, be respectful…
And Romney failed this utterly. By hte halfway point, after Lehrer had raised his voice and still failed to settle Romney down, it seemed that both he and Obama just gave up on trying, and allowed Mittens to demonstrate why he probably sits at the kiddy table during family gatherings.He was rude, belligerent, pushy, and came off as nervous and anxious. it didn’t endear him to viewers.
Obama probably could have done better – apparently he thinks he could have, according to some campaign members. But to say that his below-average performance was a win for Romney is misguided. Especially the day after, when fact-checking started rolling in, and ads started rolling out.
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I live within 10 miles from philly. Even though I don’t live with in the city limits what happens there indirectly effects me and my family(being so close). I have family who lives in south philly so there is some direct effect.
The last two mayors were black. John Street and Micheal Nutter. John Street reminds me more of Bush because he bankrupted the city as George Bush in my opinion bankrupted the country.
When Nutter got in as mayor he made alot of tough cuts. He closed swimming pools and libraries. He closed after school programs and city officials took a pay cut and there was some firings. That has some negative effects that wasn’t thought of…….Now kids that had no where to take their creative juices may have now gotten into more trouble. However he eventually found ways to pay for those programs through creative means like re vamping the parking authority in tourist areas like South Street and has recently opened the Libraries back up and created more and different after school programs.
This is something I though Obama would do with the country. Make the tough cuts , then be creative to find the funds to create jobs and still invest in the youth of America. I feel like he dropped the ball. ………I feel like he spent money on the stimulus and other programs that got robbed by special interests. Maybe he is not or never was the holder of the ball, and all his good intentions were crushed when he realized that the system has become too powerful for one man to make a serious difference.. I don’t know. I know he didn’t have alot of experience to be a president, and Romney seems like he might have more leadership skills to steal that ball right out of the scum hands. Do I agree with all of his ideas? No. But maybe he will figure out a way to stop the downward spiral and save and secure our current way of life.
Either way it’s up to us. “We the people” have become slaves to the media and haven’t organized as we should. Look at the 99% movement, It was a complete failure. It didn’t even make a dent. It was like they flicked us away with ease or pepper spray.
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