The second biggest thing people do not like about my blog are the trolls: commenters who are not serious but just seek amusement or attention. While I do block the n-word and f-word ranters, I do let other trolls through. So I am repeatedly asked why I do not just ban them and be done with it. Here is why:
- The free exchange of ideas: Maybe I read too much George Orwell and Carl Sagan growing up, but I believe in the free exchange of ideas. Because bad ideas can only be fought and destroyed in the light of day. Because good ideas can come from unlikely places. Because White Americans try to control reality. Because in most of society the range of opinions – on television, in newspapers, at school and therefore even in private – is far too narrow, making people into mindless sheep. The Internet is so new that the powers that be have not yet worked out how to control it. So, like books in the 1500s or newspapers in the 1600s, we live in a time when the free exchange of ideas is possible.
- Comment policy: I started out with no comment policy at all, but bit by bit I have learned the hard way what comments need to be deleted and which commenters need to be kicked off to keep the threads of conversation at least somewhat civil and on topic. So far I have done that through a comment policy that limits behaviour not ideas. But as a side effect this blog suffers from civil trolls – those who are reasonably polite but are still maddening all the same.
- Useful idiots: How many times have I written a “white people do x” post and then some white fool gets on to prove me wrong – only to do x! Utterly priceless. Or some commenter says “white people do not believe x any more” and then some Heckle or Jeckle comes along and says x with a straight face. They make my case better than I ever could. It is like show and tell from grade school – with trolls playing the part of the pet lizard.
- Useful specimens: In the old days scientists studied the human brain by studying people who had suffered brain damage, like in a car accident. Racist trolls are like that. I have learned more about the inner workings of the white racist mind from running this blog than in my former life as someone white people would always guard their words with.
- I am a bit of a troll myself: You kind of have to be to be a good blogger. Growing up I told people the earth was flat – just to see what they would do. I would argue the case seriously as a devil’s advocate and found that most people could not defend their side, that their beliefs were based on “what everyone believes”, like some vast Ponzi scheme.
See also:
Trolls seem to sure love this blog, Abagond!
Doug, Lara, Jay from Philly and let’s not forget Thordaddy.
They’re not used to debating with intelligent people of colour. That’s why they love it here.
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truthbetold:
I am new to this site, but I have read yours and Abagond’s posts. I dont’ see either of your posts as being very intelligent. Where are the “intelligent” people of color on this site.
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Hmm. Speaking of trolls, anyone remember no_slappz? 😉 I figure only longtime members on abagond’s blog would remember him. Now he was something else.
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Abagond:
white people do x” post and then some white fool gets on to prove me wrong – only to do x!
Just because you list something that white people are likely to say, does not make that point wrong. They argue their point, and you can show where they are wrong. Many of the points you listed in “How you can tell you are talking to a white person” are actually valid points, when taken in context and in response to a specific question.
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Speaking of trolls, anyone remember no_slappz? I figure only longtime members would be able to recall him. Some of the current trolls have nothing on him.
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This might be trollish and off-topic, but I haven’t seen a Heckle & Jeckle cartoon on TV in decades. Them and Tex Avery were favorites of mine as a kid, though they wouldn’t be “PC” these days. As for actual trolls, I tend to either skip past their posts or read them for entertainment.
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@Bliff:
I enjoy succinct writing as opposed to reams of garbage and babblings. With that being said, it can go both ways; you can have writers who make succinct observations(the author of this blog) without resorting to a snooze fest, and impart just as much if not more information. But then there are the opposite who write inane, copious amounts of garbage. Just as there are those who write concisely and in an intelligent manner, there are those who reply in a terse, laconic manner but in the opposite direction, nonsensically and unintentionally so(that’s what makes it hilarious). Thanks Bliff for proving what this post is about in such a pithy manner, albeit in a asinine tone! With that being said, I prefer these comical replies to the others such as Doug 1 who posts reams of bullshi+ in response to these posts. They are walking advertisements for unintentional satire! Carry on!
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Oh, and these current, silly trolls have nothing on him either.
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No_slappz!
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@ Bliff,
Considering your self-proclaimed “new”- ness, wouldn’t it behoove you to read the blog before stating that there is an absence of intelligence in it?
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@ Abagond,
My hope is that posters appreciate your principled approach and don’t mistake your commitment to an open dialogue with weakness. Otherwise they will continue to run their mouth and frustrate everyone. How much would you want to bet that those same tea partiers and “freedom fighters” that decry big government or socialists are among the first to eschew freedom of speech when moderating their online forums. It is nice that you take the higher ground.
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I use to love this as entertainment. As pathetic as it is when those who try to prove you wrong, prove you right in the end, it is a great learning tool.
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In Dungeons and Dragons, trolls are vulnerable to fire. So, if you flame them up, they tend to slink back into their caves.
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What I have learned here from those certain guys? First fo all, without any doubt, HBDrs, racists, race realists, what ever name they use, all have the same common ideological backround and well of thoughts. They all use the same arguments, quotes, examples which means that despite their claims, they are all part of the new racists movement which is living i the Net.
The norwegian massmurderer Anders Breivik belonged to the same bunch. Stormfront and Gate of Wienna etc. were his favorite web sites and he even wrote his very own testament based on these same arguments and “science”, quoting pretty much the same guys and sources as dougie and his pals on this blog.
So while trolls can be irritating, they also are very revealing. We can all see where their ideological garbage comes from, how it is connected and how they try to formulate it, how they try to learn to response to counter arguments “intelligently”. Unfortunately for them, it does not work because they basic premis is faulty so then they explode and come out for real. Which is always funny.
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~ ch555x
“As for actual trolls, I tend to either skip past their posts or read them for entertainment.”
**************************
My view is similar to yours, but with a twist. I tend to mostly ignore/skip their nonsense or sometimes respond to them (usually indirectly) for the purpose of entertainment, or ridicule. Getting into lengthy debates with trolls is a useless activity. There’s always something better and more constructive to do … Right Franklin? LOL
As for Randy, imo he’s in the super-troll category. Although he’s very full of it, he tries very hard at being one of the smoothest, slickest, craftiest, disingenuous, tactical and polite undercover racists I’ve ever encountered on the Internet! It’s almost fun watching his now familiar and predictable patterns at work. Compared to the seriously clueless racist idiots that this site attracts, Randy is usually the least antagonistic…
The award for the most adversarial and annoying troll would be a four-way tie between Thordaddy, Dave Lister, Lara and everyone’s favorite *know-it-all* racist, Doug1. None of whom, in my opinion, ever had anything worthwhile to add to any of the topics posted here – aside from being the evidence/proof of the points being made in various posts.
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I’ve actually learned a lot on this blog, not only due to the great stuff Abagond puts up, but also due to the responses he gets in the comments.
I’ve learned a lot about how racists think here, they seem to repeat the same ideology and arguments no matter how much people prove them wrong or lay the smack down on them. The fact that I would have agreed with them a while ago just proves to me how pervasive their thinking can be. For every troll there is someone out there who really believes in what they say.
The only thing that irritates me is that these trolls can say some emotionally disruptive things and people shouldn’t have to deal with that repeatedly just to prove them wrong, and they clearly aren’t here to learn anything or discuss seriously.
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Oh…and one more thing i noticed about troll behavior at Abagond’s
if you say anything about the white race or the beloved members within (i.e. those 14 year olds ranting about Black people) you are asking for them to swarm.
They seem to idolize the whiteness of their skin and take supreme offense to anyone calling into the question the obvious value of being white.
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Super Troll LOL! That conjured up a seriously hilarious image. Love it!
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“Trolls” as they’re being described here fill a purpose. And I would agree with putting Randy in the super-troll category but even he (in my view ) was no match for “Thad”.
Lets face it. If it wasn’t for the inputs of some of these insanely dedicated trolls this blog would soon deteriorate into a boring one dimensional monologue about the atrocities and injustices of race phobic white Americans. Though interesting in itself, and a topic in need of wider publicity, there should always be room for growth. So the more interesting Trolls can provide this as well as achieving (3) and (4) on Abagond’s list.
We can learn as much from Trolls as they can from us. In the age of (so far) unregulated free speech on the internet it is simply a matter of finding a balance between what might be regarded as excessive nonsense and abuse; and informative but uncomfortable truths. Which is where a comments policy comes in. This I believe has to be more than just seen to be arbitrary otherwise it can run the risk of repressing or just shutting down good honest debate.
While Abagond’s site may not be perfect in this regard, given the nature of the topics covered, I’ve yet to come across a site that handles these potential emotive discussions any better. So full credit to Abagond for keeping it going!
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“”
Lets face it. If it wasn’t for the inputs of some of these insanely dedicated trolls this blog would soon deteriorate into a boring one dimensional monologue about the atrocities and injustices of race phobic white Americans. Though interesting in itself, and a topic in need of wider publicity, there should always be room for growth. So the more interesting Trolls can provide this as well as achieving (3) and (4) on Abagond’s list.
“”
@ Kwamla
Maybe so but i think you might be slightly over-valuing the worth of these trolls. Most of the readers on Abagond’s actually seem to post only once and seem to avoid the comments section altogether. So with this in mind, I think it is safe to say that if the Trolls were to disappear tomorrow, posters would still come here because for the most part people are interested in what Abagond has to say, not the bizarro version that white supremacists have to say.
The white supremacists that come on here provide a Jerry Springer factor to the comments section. Yes they are addictive in a self-infliction of pain sort of way but simultaneously they do stimulate discussion. At the same time, more often than not, i already have a good idea of what they are going to try and argue and why they think that way. And i haven’t even been here that long.
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@ JT
As someone who has been reading and posting on here for at least 3 years now i’ve seen Trolls come and go. But there are Trolls and there are Super Trolls and probably some other categories as well!!!. Not all contribute/don’t contribute in the same way and it becomes progressively easier over time to discern this.
I personally come here not just to read what Abagond has to say but what other commentators have to add or subtract from what he has to say. This in its self helps promote health and informed opinion as I am not simply interested in reading my own views being reflected back to me….
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Jay from Philly is one of the more interesting and amusing trolls here. His posts, unlike the others, offers a different and somewhat comical although not truly unique view of the white racial frame at work from the point of view of the neighborhood busy-body.
Just imagine what Jay might accomplish if he would use his powers of observation (nosiness) to fight racism instead of advocating it. In other words, the issues Jay often pontificates on are in fact complex and multidimensional *cause & effect* problems instead of the one dimension, over-simplistic presentation and analysis that racists like him repeatedly bring to the table.
+++++++++++++++++++++
There’s nothing really new or original said by any of the trolls. Some of them just have a different way of saying the same old tired stuff. If I do learn something, it’s not from the trolls themselves, but often from what’s said in response to them.
What I wonder about is what might the regulars here be discussing in earnest if the trolls’ distracting and disruptive presence weren’t so pervasive and frequent. I’m not sure that this would turn into a boring blog without their repugnant presence. After all, the Internet, and life (in general) is rife with these clowns. They’re everywhere.
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On the use of the term “troll” by the commentariat:
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Morning Randy
Glad you showed up.
Question:
Why are you so attracted to us?
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I haven’t been here long enough to see what no slappz said on this blog, but I remember no-slapz from another blog. Now that is a super troll! How did no-slappz get banned?
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I am becoming fond of this site. I really love the comments from trolls because it gives me some laughs these days.
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Yep this pretty much sums it up for me, regarding getting into the white mindset in living color via internet. In real life most white folk aren’t going to be real. It’s once you get them behind closed doors and their guard is down-they gain a pair of cahones and let us have it! I would say, 50% is pretty entertaining and the other 50% is rather disturbing/sickening.
Keep up the good work Abagond!
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@ lifelearner
I’ve traveled through America for business for about 5 years. The stuff that white America says when they think you’re out of earshot used to shock me. I wondered if this was all just a bad joke.
I’m no longer suprised by anything anymore. It becomes almost expected. When I meet someone who isn’t like the herd, I’m pleasantly surprised.
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As other commenters have stated, i’m not familiar with no-slappz either but comparitively, I am relatively new to this site.
Lara though with her inane and guiless posts was hilarious. The post of hers that made me laugh the most was when she was talking about subscribing to some dating site called ‘Seeking Arrangement’ and came on here talking about the fact that most of the black women on the said site were ‘goldiggers’ looking for a man who is flash with his cash.
When I did a google search the website promoted itself as “#1 for Sugar Daddy’s” LMAO. I pointed this out to her and she reverted to type as per usual.
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Good on you! I have a similar policy. Some comments need to stand as a testament to stupidity. I draw the line at people going completely off-topic to concentrate solely on flaming one another
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^
Sugar, wrong thread for the above – Abagond, can you delete this from here and I will put it on the Open Thread.
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No, because then it will look like my comment. Post it on the Open Thread and I will delete it here.
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@Abagond
Confused.com? I didnt ask for you to re-post it, I said I will put it on the Open Thread which I have done now. Is that ok?
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I’m not surprised that it came to this. Abagond, in his curmudgeonly hypocrisy, has taken it upon him/herself to backhandedly calling some of the mos productive contributors on the blog “trolls”. These members include
Doug1 – whose encyclopedic knowledge of race, history and sociology have been an invaluable contribution to the knowledge of this blog, and has served to reveal the simplistic biases held by many posters here.
Jay From Philly A man whose deep concern for his darker neighbours have led him to risk life and limb surveilling them, and then meticulously reporting back to us on this website. He has also created an excellent general sociological theory applicable to all blacks, based on test subjects he encounters daily a t his workplace – a Federal penitentiary. And finally
thordaddy The extent of his philosophical genius cannot be be overstated. Or for that matter, stated. He has singledhandedly developed a theory of Radical Autonomy, not based on empirical, statistical, rational, scientific, sociological or historical evidence, but by him sel-anal-ysing himself for several years, and spending the last few years on the Internet preaching his gospel.
And you call these people trolls?No wonder the black race will never progress. After Abagond’s most recent insult to me and my nation, I had vowed not to post anymore. That this latest outrage has stirred me to action. No more shall I yeild to his put downs. Doug, Jay, thordaddy, let us rally and strike him , with one might deathblow!
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Abagond:
You claim that you allow the “free exchange of ideas” and only disallow trolls that use bad language or are “not serious but just seek amusement or attention”.
I don’t think so. You are running a white-bashing, pro-black blog. I think you just label all white responses as “racist” or “not serious”, which certaintly is not a
“free exchange of ideas”. The only idea you seem to promote is “Whites are Racist and need to change so Blacks can have a better life”, and if they don’t agree, then they must be racist.
Furthermore, the black bloggers here seem to think they own the blog and can label who the trolls are, as if they were some sort of blog gatekeepers. Correct if I’m wrong, but I thought the blog was open to anyone who follows the rules. If the rules are that I have to be a white-basher, then let me know and I’ll leave.
I had earlier said that I was looking for some intelligent responses here. What I normally see here is a bunch of blacks bashing whites and then congradulating each other on it. Since they all agree with each other, and bash any white who comes here with a different idea, they think they’re intelligent, when it’s really just group-think.
One would think that blacks, who are on the bottom of the American social-economic heap, would want to hear from the “priviledged” whites, so they can learn what whites do that they don’t do, to improve their condition. But no, the bottom of the heapers, think they already know the reason – it’s just white racism keeping us down. We don’t have to do anything. The whites just have to become less racist.
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While the trolls are maddening, I have definitely learned quite a bit more about the way racists think, and it is nice to be able to spot their BS from 100 miles away. I used to wonder why abagond let them run rampant, but I see how they serve a purpose…sort of… 😎
LOL @ SomeGuy:
The trolls in Skyrim have that vulnerability, as well – and their fat has unique alchemic properties! 😀
They also seem to be vulnerable to goats, as noted in the famed story The 3 Billy Goats Gruff. This is why I thought that this video would scare them into submission:
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truthbetold:
Just to be clear, which “us” are you referring to?
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@ SatanForce
🙂 LOL
@ Bliff <—
DUDE!! … Seriously???
Anyway.. have you talked to our dear friends Skyler, Tad, Miles and Blake lately?
Oh, and tell Chad and Clark I said hi. And my best to Hannah & Emma.
LOL
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Matari:
I’m hurt!! I thought you would like it. Why would I know any of these people you listed…is it because we’re white? That’s racist!!
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@Satanforce
A man whose deep concern for his darker neighbours have led him to risk life and limb surveilling them, and then meticulously reporting back to us on this website.
Where’s your compassion? The poor guy got demoted from Chief Neighbor ‘hood’ watch Commissioner to Assistant ‘ghetto’ patrol person. All power has been taken from him so, all he can do is watch… Wouldnt you be bitter? 😉
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this is really unrelated to this post, but what are your thoughts on Kony 2012?
Some people seem to think its a great idea, some think its neo-colonialism from western organisations trying to ‘save’ the helpless black people from themselves’, some think its just America trying to do their ‘one good deed’ for 2012, others think it diminishes what Kony has done, by trivialising it and getting people such as Jay Z and Oprah to ‘spread the word’.
I was just interested to know what YOU thought about the whole thing!
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“is it because we’re white? That’s racist!!”
No silly. It’s because of YOUR NAME … but mostly it’s because of this B/S:
“One would think that blacks, who are on the bottom of the American social-economic heap, would want to hear from the “priviledged” whites, so they can learn what whites do that they don’t do, to improve their condition.”
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B:
I am doing a post on Kony 2012. It will appear tonight New York time.
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@ Bliff
“I had earlier said that I was looking for some intelligent responses here. What I normally see here is a bunch of blacks bashing whites and then congradulating each other on it. Since they all agree with each other, and bash any white who comes here with a different idea, they think they’re intelligent, when it’s really just group-think.
One would think that blacks, who are on the bottom of the American social-economic heap, would want to hear from the “priviledged” whites, so they can learn what whites do that they don’t do, to improve their condition. But no, the bottom of the heapers, think they already know the reason – it’s just white racism keeping us down. We don’t have to do anything. The whites just have to become less racist.”
WOW.
I almost don’t know where to start. First of all, with these paragraphs, you have proven to us Negroes that everything we say, think and feel about ignorant whites is true!
So you, as a white man, came on a black anti-racist blog looking for ‘intelligent’ black responses? Do I have that correct? And we should listen to whatever you say because we can learn from your infinite wisdom? But, sadly all we do is white bash and exhibit group think? Hmmmmm, that sounds dangerously like white behaviour, no?
WOW.
Bliff, (whose name rhymes with spliff), why even take the time to tell the bottom of American society what you think?
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Bliff:
No racist slurs please.
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@ Satanforce
Epic troll post, bro. Kudos!
@ sepultura13
Great video!
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@ Randy
To be more specific: Why are you so attracted to blacks as a whole? You are, after all on a black blog.
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The hubris!
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How did no-slappz get banned?
Being his sweet trollicious self!
One would think that blacks, who are on the bottom of the American social-economic heap, would want to hear from the “priviledged” whites, so they can learn what whites do that they don’t do, to improve their condition.
Tell us lowly negras sah!
But no, the bottom of the heapers, think they already know the reason – it’s just white racism keeping us down. We don’t have to do anything. The whites just have to become less racist.
Oh no, we think your wonderful!
Bliff, (whose name rhymes with spliff), why even take the time to tell the bottom of American society what you think?
He’s been smoking what his name rhymes with!
This one’s for you Bliff!
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@ Bliff
Anyone is allowed to comment as long as they follow the comment policy. It is not required to bash whites. In fact some commenters bash blacks. Nor is anyone required to agree with what white people say and regard everything that falls from their lips as pearls of wisdom. It is possible, you know, for a black person to disagree with a white person and, gasp, be right!!!
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Agreed on all points. Since I’m white, I find it pretty easy to distinguish between whites who are just here to only troll and those who are worth having in the conversations. This latter group mostly includes people who are usually trying to defend whites generally or themselves and their friends. This group seems especially worthwhile for two reasons I see– they are likely to say something which in whole or part is likely to get them zapped in a way that may open them to new ways of thinking if they’re ready and willing for it; and also that they often have things to say that add valuable food for thought, whether in a positive or a negative way.
I go back and forth in my mind regarding the value of the harsh replies many whites writing here receive. On the one hand, I’m mindful of the blog’s raison d’etre as Abagond has often stated it. On the other, there is value in helping whites to learn. Not always; certainly the amount of energy teaching anyone anything on this subject requires is a lot in most cases. I’m writing this because I remember one time in particular (I only check this blog usually every few weeks because of time) that I think was maybe a year or so ago, in which I remember one white person getting hit pretty hard by several commenters and Abagond his or herself. In this particular case, I remember thinking that the writer was getting attacked more harshly than he in particular deserved. I don’t remember any of the specifics but broadly speaking, he was saying a few things that revealed white privilege, but from my POV the criticism was at a level of intensity that seemed more appropriate for some unrepentant tea partier than this particular person.
All of that previous paragraph leads to the questions of the type, the quality, and the depth of observations that can be made about a group, both by a member and by an outsider. I imagine entire books could treat these subjects purely in the abstract; the only things I’m pretty sure of are that 1. an astute outsider will see things about a subject or a collective in ways that will usually elude the insiders, and 2. the outsider can never understand what it is to be a member of the group in question. I don’t even want to say “fully understand” because while it’s a sure thing that an outsider who truly wishes to learn the essence of a group he or she studies can certainly learn a hell of a lot more than the average jerkoff who thinks he knows a lot but hasn’t spent a moment studying the lens of his own assumptions. ALTHOUGH, as I think about it, how would we explain a thing like this– say, one of the white Americans who from childhood spends his formative years entirely within the black American community. There aren’t many such people, but I imagine anyone who’s been around a bit has on occasion run into such people. You wouldn’t know it by looking at such a person’s photo, but you’d certainly pick up on it within about a minute’s interaction with him/her. And, if you had a feeling for what to look for, you could probably pick up on it by simply observing his or her body language, gestures, etc., even if you never personally interacted with such a person. What I’ve noticed about such people is a very interesting and revealing you see when you watch such a person interact with others. Okay, I assume there will be little disagreement from this site’s regulars about the following– there is nearly always, or maybe even absolutely always, a change in the mood of any room in which a group of members of either race, black or white, when a member of the opposite group enters. It’s usually an awkward feeling, which different members will experience with greater or lesser intensity. Maybe “awkward” is not quite the right word but it’s as close as I can come right now to the feeling I mean. A useful comparison is to the way the mood of a room full of men only changes when a woman or group of women enter, or vice versa. Anyway, I have seen situations in which a white person like the one I described further up this paragraph enters a gathering of black people, like say when some member of the family’s new friend, or friend from out of town shows up for the first time at the family’s home. Assuming the family hasn’t been told about the new guest, they will invariably react to the sight of white skin the way they would in any other such situation, yet the moment this person begins to speak and move in front of them, the mood shifts back to being the way it had previously been. A couple other points are these– this doesn’t work as well going the other way; i.e. a black person raised among whites will put those whites at ease in a manner like the previous example, but it won’t be as complete; the white person I’m referring to above, though he might be called a “wigger” behind his back by those who get laughs from such an observation, BUT, he would probably not seem like a “wigger” to those same whites when they are in this man’s actual presence. To be precise, most white people who think of “wiggers” are first, people who are unrepentant racists (they may or may not deny their racism), and use the word as 75% epithet, and they mean a person in whom they sense that the body language and mannerisms of a black American as they appear in a white person, no matter the level of authenticity or comfort felt by the person so identified, still intuitively feels like something other than who the person really is. The white person who has spent his entire childhood or adolescence among the black community, and who has had only sporadic contact with whites, will not evoke such a feeling in whites, and of course, neither will he evoke such a feeling in blacks.
(inserted the above paragraph here after I’d written the one beneath, and now I gotta split as my wife is kicking me off the computer– this subject will probably bore some people completely but it will probably be of great interest to some– I can’t usually spend too much time here but I’d appreciate it a lot if anyone wanted to add their thoughts to it. It’s strayed from the subject, but not by much, I think– if you wanna write me on it, or on anything, send to dmerrin10000@gmail.com)
Oh, and while I’m on this general subject.. I have had another thought stuck in my head from the period a year or two ago when the film “Monster’s Ball” was the subject of several posts. I may have never had my view of a thing changed so enormously than my view of the film was and I remember appreciating that because I used to tell friends about this film as being a “must see” and now I’m more ambivalent. However, I haven’t been able to ever stop thinking about it because as a former English student and teacher who still actively seeks out good story telling, I can’t stop thinking I could write a piece on the subject that would take the body of criticism that appeared here and still make a case in defense of certain aspects of the film; even the film as a whole. I’ve never done it because I know such a piece would require concentration, research on and rethinking of the old criticisms, and then careful revision to be sure I was being as precise as I could– and all of this would take a lot of time. Plus, there was a question in my mind regarding how important the whole subject was and whether or not I could do it in such a way as to avoid putting the community on the defensive– by which I mean that the criticisms, as I recall them, were pretty absolute.
Anyway, some of my thoughts..
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Truthbegone:
“a black anti-racist blog”. Abagond doesn’t claim this, why do you?
How am I an ignorant white?? Blacks themselves complain about how we keep them at the bottom of the heap, so it can’t be that. My other statements amounted to “ask those who know”. How is that ignorant?
….proven to us Negroes that everything we say, think and feel about ignorant whites is true…
Pray tell in detail. What do you “say, think and feel about ignorant whites”? I would love to know.
“we should listen to whatever you say because we can learn from your infinite wisdom” This is riduculous hyberbole. I never said anything close to having infiinte wisdom. Just don’t pretend to be so open minded, when all you want to hear is fellow blacks bashing whites.
“white bash and exhibit group think” Yep, that pretty much sums up this blog.
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Herneith:
Thanks for the reply. I didn’t get a chance to read it all, but I noticed the video. What is this…a video of your last family reunion?? Why would you send me this?? I’ll read your post when I get a chance. See ya.
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@ Demerera
Sorry, my mistake. Thanks.
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Someguy:
How is my post hubris?? All I really said is “ask those that know” It beats waiting your whole life for whites to acknowledege their “racism”.
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Abagond:
“It is possible, you know, for a black person to disagree with a white person and, gasp, be right!!!”
Agreed, Abagond. It is possible. It just has never happened on this site.
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@ Bliff
What people are reacting to in your comments is your idea that you know what is best for black people, better than even blacks themselves. On top of that you are holding up whites as a model and talking like racism is no big deal. Instead of an “exchange of ideas” you are talking down to commenters – and apparently do not even see it.
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Abagond:
You’re not even warm. I never claimed I know what is best for black people, I just said the responders here should listen to white people and not just pass pro-black ideas between themselves and think they’ve answered everything.
As everybody agrees, whites are on top in this society, you know, “white privilege” and all that. I have suggested that maybe us whites know something that blacks could actually benefit from. Therefore, it may help blacks to listen to whites, instead of just calling us all racists, which is the predominant idea on this blog. Therefore, I am calling for an exchange of ideas. It’s just that the blacks here don’t think we have anything to contribute.
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Like what? Can you give us an example?
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Someguy:
Yeah. Get an education. Dont’ talk with your mouth full. And look both ways before crossing the street. Does that help!!
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@Bliff
You’re not even warm. I never claimed I know what is best for black people, I just said the responders here should listen to white people and not just pass pro-black ideas between themselves and think they’ve answered everything.
As everybody agrees, whites are on top in this society, you know, “white privilege” and all that. I have suggested that maybe us whites know something that blacks could actually benefit from. Therefore, it may help blacks to listen to whites, instead of just calling us all racists, which is the predominant idea on this blog. Therefore, I am calling for an exchange of ideas. It’s just that the blacks here don’t think we have anything to contribute.
Sometimes it’s not whether you said it or not. It’s what you are implying.
Bliff, why should black people listen to whites, but whites don’t or won’t listen to blacks as you are demonstrating? Why should we listen to whites when there’s a possibility they will tear us down in the process as they have been for centuries?
You see, we know why whites are at the top better than some whites care to know why. I said care because they are mostly persuaded by the old “bootstraps” thing. They believed they worked hard in getting the things they have and take for granted.
Here’s the reality, and hold on to your seat for this one. Whites got to the top through genocide, slavery, and oppression against people of color. They got there by making “whiteness” default and superior. And many whites who are at the top in this day and age most likely have gotten some kind of “affirmative action” for themselves, inherited the wealth and power from a previous generation, or used underhanded tricks and schemes to climb the ladder and are still getting away with it because they have money and white skin.
If you want an exchange of ideas, why not consider accepting ours before you rant about how we should accept yours?
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You may learn something, Bliff.
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@ Someguy
Bliff has suggested that whites may know something we could benefit from, correct? Here they are:
1. When all else fails, blame someone darker than you.
2. Need help mowing the lawn, doing household chores and raising your kids?
Hire someone darker than you.
3. Got pulled over by the cops? Blame rappers, they’re the cause for all bad white behaviour.
4. Got laid off from work? Blame affirmative action.
5. Wife unsatisfied? Hire a Mandingo.
See?
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Sarcasm: the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.
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Ha!
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@ Someguy
Bliff has suggested that whites may know something we could benefit from, correct? Here they are:
1. When all else fails, blame someone darker than you.
2. Need help mowing the lawn, doing household chores and raising your kids?
Hire someone darker than you.
3. Got pulled over by the cops? Blame rappers, they’re the cause for all bad white behaviour.
4. Got laid off from work? Blame affirmative action.
5. Wife unsatisfied? Hire a Mandingo.
LMAO.
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brothawolf, truthebetold, someguy:
You guys are great. You really put me in my place and I thought I was superior. Thanks.
I tried hiring a Mandingo, but know no one knew what I was talking about. That’s whites for you. So I have to do the old lady myself, sheesh. Where’s Rhianna when she’s actually good for something.
brothawolf:
“Whites got to the top through genocide, slavery, and oppression against people of color.” Thanks for the insight. But I perfer Micheal Levins’s analysis in “Why Race Matters” where he states that blacks have a hard time in White society, ie. America, because they are less intelligent, are more impulsive, and are less capable of planning for the future. I love this because it’s a great explanatory principle. It explains perfectly blacks’ position in America.
It is getting late for this White Racist and I must be going. However, I have to brief my Klan Handlers before I go. They assigned me to Abagond’s site to see what Da Blacks are up to.
Dear Grand Wizzart:
Hey Dad, its me. There’s no problem here. The Blacks are as clueless as ever. They insist on doing nothing with their lives, until we whites denounce our “racism”. I tried to tell them to learn from us, but, you know Blacks. they insist on doing everything the hard way.
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Here is my problem, we’re making way too much stew from one oyster. The population of this blog is way to small to draw conclusions about any larger populations. The generalization that, I could support about the readers of this blog is an interest in racial matters.
But there seems to be a desire to insist that conclusions can be drawn about a population as a whole based on a small self selected sample or from a population of x saying they must x – either way bad science and horrible math.
Climbing down off my soap box
Good night everyone
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First sarcasm. Now hyperbole. You’re on a roll, Bliffy!
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Someguy:
Don’t bother me. Can’t you tell I’m asleep.
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@ Bliff,
Wow…
If black people here truly learned from people like you, the world would implode due to the amount of hot air and entitlement.
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@abagond I live in the philadelphia area, and not to brag but racial harmony can be excellent here more than most places. Maybe because of the huge amounts of blue collar whites. We’ve had our problems “Move” “Drugs” “Hate crimes (on both sides)” but it seems like here we come together more than most. But I think white people need to have a voice in these matters to make the conversation complete. Some of your international commenters can be considered trolls as well. Even though they are black. If I went on a british site and started giving a white point of view on race relations there even if it was a pro white site, I think I would be a troll. Who am I to give my opinion that britain has a right to stay british. I could come up with great arguments for it, it wouldn’t matter I WOULD BE A TROLL. In the case of your blog I don’t think I am even though a may have some contrary points of views.
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@bliff:
“I never claimed I know what is best for black people, I just said the responders here should listen to white people and not just pass pro-black ideas between themselves and think they’ve answered everything.”
But you imply it right there again in that same sentence!
“As everybody agrees, whites are on top in this society, you know, “white privilege” and all that. I have suggested that maybe us whites know something that blacks could actually benefit from.”
Not everyone agrees, but go ahead: tell something what you know and the blacks don’t. It must be something really special if all the white americans know it but not a single black american has any idea of it even though it benefits them so greatly.
“It’s just that the blacks here don’t think we have anything to contribute.”
Could it be that the “blacks here” have had experiences that make them think that a racist white american very seldomly “contributes”??
“Abagond:
“It is possible, you know, for a black person to disagree with a white person and, gasp, be right!!!”
Agreed, Abagond. It is possible. It just has never happened on this site.”
Actually it has happened many times. Perhaps you just missed those times for some weird reason?
“How am I an ignorant white??”
I do not know but you are, it shows in your posts. Sorry.
“You are running a white-bashing, pro-black blog. I think you just label all white responses as “racist” or “not serious”, which certaintly is not a
“free exchange of ideas”. The only idea you seem to promote is “Whites are Racist and need to change so Blacks can have a better life”, and if they don’t agree, then they must be racist.”
Well, nobody has thus far said that my responses are Racist or Not serious, even though sometimes they are not serious. And even when I have not agreed with the black commenters or abagond, nobody has told me I must be a racist. Isn’t that strange??
“Furthermore, the black bloggers here seem to think they own the blog and can label who the trolls are, as if they were some sort of blog gatekeepers.”
Ööh… It is abagonds blog and he can do what ever he wants with it. See? He can blog about green little men from Mars if he wants or clowns and their over size shoes. And he can label some commetators as trolls if and when ever he wants to. You are sort of visitor in his realm so you have no say so about the running of this blog. Thems the rules here, bubba.
“One would think that blacks, who are on the bottom of the American social-economic heap, would want to hear from the “priviledged” whites, so they can learn what whites do that they don’t do, to improve their condition.”
That is the problem Biff, oh sorry, Bliff. They were listening privlidged whites for a very long time, sometimes in shackles or while being lynched, and that did not improve their position in society so they kind of got enough of those prvidliged whites telling them how to do and what to do. That is why they do not appear so eager to satisfy your master race needs being subservient for white americans anymore. That must be shocking to you and your pals.
As for the economic heap, can I ask you how much money you make in a year? Being on the top of the “economic heap” you must be a millionaire, right? I mean, if all the blacks are below your white highness in this “economic heap” you must be making more money in a year than Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O’Neal, Michael Jordan, Rihanna, Jay Z and Beyonce put togethter, right? Being the privlidged white person you are, that is?
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but some “trolls” in my definition have good contributions and in this global web world we can learn from everybody. Demerera and Sam are probably aside from yourself are smart as heck and your blog wouldn’t be the same without them. so what do I know. I’m just saying.
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So I know that some people deserved to be banned, I probably got close at times, but I’m glad you didn’t decide to do it, because I like you and what you stand for. Do I agree with it all of the time no. But If everyone agreed with you this would be rather boring.
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I’ll give you a sports example. My favorite basketball player growing up was Charles Barkley. Charles is at heart a kind soul. But like all of us he has his flaws. When I was a kid Sir Charles could do no wrong. When he smashed a dude through a plate glass window I would say……….The guy deserved it. When he by accidentally spit on a little girl……..It was the hecklers fault. When he kicked the camera man I was like…..How you gonna get in Charles way. It was unconditional love. Some people on here black and white have the same mentality. But they tag it to an entire race………That is totally wrong.
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This is exactly what I’ve been saying to these blacks for as long as I can remember. They should spending their paychecks on XBox and “bling-bling”, and develop a Protestant ethic so that they may rise to higher races of men, like the White Nordic, White Andalusian and Hmong Chinese.
bunch a whiners………
Real pathetic, these American blacks. The idea that old times racism and slavery could have anything to do with their own poverty and pathetic habits is so fallacious as to be laughable.
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@ Satan
LOL! I love that commercial.
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“I’ve actually learned a lot on this blog, not only due to the great stuff Abagond puts up, but also due to the responses he gets in the comments.”
I second that. Actually, there were a few times I thought Abagond was being a little too hard on white people but then I read some of the comments…
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Note when you talk to a Black/White whatever you’re not talking to an intelligent crayon but a human being. If you want to talk to an intelligent shade of blue I would suggest finding a hoovooloo.
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@Dave
Demerera and Sam are probably aside from yourself are smart as heck and your blog wouldn’t be the same without them. so what do I know. I’m just saying.
Hopefully we ALL learn from each other. I am often blown away by the collective, wide and diverse knowledge that commenters convey on this blog. I’m not just talking about the fact that people are ‘well read’, I am also talking about those who give of themselves on this blog and share their own personal experiences and how this has moulded and shaped them into the people that they are.
All valuable, valid and informative in terms of what makes people tick 🙂
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Who said that? Now that, my friend, is a classic Strawman Argument.
Many people here discuss current affairs concerning Blacks in America. Why is it that it’s always some short-sighted White guy that barges into the conversation like some drunken parrot yelling “Slavery! Slavery! Slavery!”?
You do it because you have no real empathy or interest in the relevant issues among Black people today. All you know about is slavery and coonery you see on the silver screen.
I don’t know if you are aware of this…shhhh…it’s a secret….
The KKK, lynching, Jim Crow laws, Apartheid separation, housing discrimination, biased police profiling and brutality, destruction of Black Wallstreet, Tuskeegee experiments, and a whole lot more….
Happened after slavery… shhhh…
It’s a secret!
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Those are merely individual incidents that have no bearing on the African American whole. Jeremy Lin doesn’t complain that the Japanese internment camps stopped him from achieving his success, now does he?
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Hey, “Ace’:
“implode due to the amount of hot air”. Hot air expands, therefore, the world would explode, not implode.
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They are symptoms of a greater disease. These “individual incidents” didn’t happen in a vacuum. They are the products of a racial society. These larger events are the macrocosm, while smaller events, like personal racism that the average Black person deals with daily, is the microcosm.
And as for the notion that these events don’t have bearing on AAs as a whole… huh? Blacks and Whites are part of the same Nation. Every major event trickles down some influence to everyone in the country- Black and White, on all levels. How do you not know this? This is LIFE 101.
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@ Bliff:
Hence the point of how your hot air and entitlement would mess up the world if everyone believed in it. Since racists think even the laws of science and basic vocabulary can change meaning at their whim, the world would implode, not explode. Fact of the matter is, it would implode because the world would be so warped by your views that real science and truth would go out the window. Reality would change.
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@ Satanforce,
So your using Jeremy Lin, a young man who faces racism often just for being asian and not being an acceptable stereotype, let alone for being asian as your excuse for how pathetic black people are? Really? Now THAT is pathetic.
Also, tell me: If a black child is told only whites are allowed to visit and swim in the pool in the complex her parents live at, is that all not supposed to have a bearing on her? Or is it that “old racism has no bearing” crap? Because that happened this year dude.
As much crap that still happens in this country, heck, around the world, you can’t claim it has no bearing, most of it happened post slavery, and many incidents happened within the past decade.
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Ace & SomeGuy
SatanForce is an semi-regular here who sometimes get his jollies and kicks by messing with the uninitiated by playing the role of devil’s advocate.
In other words, he’s prone to throwing occasional junk out there to see who’ll take the bait. He’s a brother just messing with y’all.
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@ Matari,
Well that’s lovely…
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Ace:
“racists think even the laws of science and basic vocabulary can change meaning at their whim”
See, this is why I am not impressed with the quality of the dialogue on this blog.
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@ Bliff
Then why do you keep coming back?
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@ Darqbeauty
For the same reason Doug does.
The attraction is too strong to keep away.
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Bliff says we have nothing worthwhile to contribute. Yet here he is. Actions speak louder than words. If we are below his notice, then why is he here? Since he is such an expert at Black people, perhaps he would be more at home at “Stuff Black People Don’t Like”. There he can rest comfortably other white brethren who profess to be experts in all things Negro under the sun 🙂
@ Herneith
LOL!!! Yeah, take it with a grain of salt.
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“See, this is why I am not impressed with the quality of the dialogue on this blog.”
**********************
We’re not the least bit impressed with the quality of white individuals that harbor racist tendencies (like you) who come here looking to be impressed.
In fact, some of us are much more “impressed” by your absence rather than your actual posting presence here.
Say Bliff, tell Sparky, Cody, Troy, Dick, Chip and Adolph I’ll see them at the next swim meet! 😉
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I don’t wish to “learn his language”. I am not fluent in self aggrandizing arsehole nor do I want to be. 🙂
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@ Bliff,
And I highly doubt anyone here is impressed by your “White people know best! Learn from them, because all of you are clearly at the bottom and are just haters” bull, so I guess we are even, hm?
Frankly, I’m curious why you’d dismiss the quality of the blog due to my response to you, but you don’t expect anyone to dismiss your “pearls of wisdom” due to a lack of insight.
@ Matari,
Ah I see what your saying now. I put two and two together and realized what Satanforce was doing.
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Ace:
You are boring. I said try “listening to whites,” not that they nor I know best. I didn’t say ‘haters” either. I am not impressed with this blog solely by what you said. I am not impressed with the blog because Abagond has too many white-bashing posts and many of the “resident” respondents bash anyone without an black-centered viewpoint.
You said we change the laws of science and vocabulary, which to me is just an inane statement.
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DarqBeauty:
I said:
“It’s just that the backs here don’t think we have anything to contribute”
You thought I said:
“Bliff says we have nothing worthwhile to contribute. ”
Notice any difference.
I hope you caught our little exchange before Agagond delete it.
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@ Bliff
Of course I am. Love being boring. People never see me coming.
Well when you say “try listening to whites” and then claim that “black people are on the bottom of the social-economic heap”, your pretty much saying white people know best. And if you don’t know what is disingenuous about what you said, I don’t think even I could dumb it down. Of course, anything that views black people on an equal footing as white people is considered “black-centered” to a racist, and anything that points out something related to white racism is “white-bashing”. The fact that you actually took part in “black-bashing” in this thread seems to be something you don’t take responsibility for, do as I say, not as I do indeed.
Also, you do. Racists claim the world revolves around white people. They also claim that white people did everything important, another false statement. They claim that black people are unanimously stupider, despite what science says, hence changing science to fit their views. They also change the meaning of words or statements to fit their own racial ideology, changing vocabulary. And since they are white and believe their words equate to truth on that factor alone, the rest writes itself.
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“I have learned more about the inner workings of the white racist mind from running this blog than in my former life”
True story; I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh for this very same reason. Keep up the good work.
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FX, Abagond:
“I have learned more about the inner workings of the white racist mind ….”
This prompted a thought. Commenters here ask me why I come here…because I have a simliar reason. To find out about the workings of the American black mind. It’s very different from whites. The more and more I learn about blacks, the more and more I believe that there are non-trivial Differences Between Blacks and Whites. And so, I come to observe, and listen, and comment.
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^^ Hasn’t it occurred to you that we’ve been forced to listen to whites for the past couple of centuries( through media, books, school, church, jobs, ect)? why should we waste any more of our time listening to the likes of you? What wisdom do they(you) have to share besides that ‘bootstrap’ myth or ‘turn the other cheek when a white person slaps you’ bull crap … please tell me. I am dying to know over here. This blog criticizes white racism ( which many whites practice unfortunately) so yes, you will be hearing a lot of criticism from the folks who is at the receiving end of said racism or from folks who actually care about JUSTICE and EQUALITY for everyone. It’s not white bashing, it’s evil bashing.
Also, why do you care about what we do?I don’t think it’s your job to be telling us what we should do with ourselves. Don’t you think that’s a bit… what’s the word… CONTROLLING?
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Nana:
I guess you’re talking to me.
“What wisdom do they(you) have to share ”
Well, is what you and your community doing now working out very well?? No? Then try something else. Talking to whites would be different, yes??
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^^^ I can do nothing but laugh at your statement.
Well, let’s talk…..What are your solutions?
How do you talk to (racist) whites when they aren’t willing to listen, anyway? Unless of course, talking to you means whites do the talking and POC do the listening. (which is something that has been happening… since…… forever).
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Nana:
“we’ve been forced to listen to whites…” I think listening to whites has been the least of your problems. Have you seen our whips??
“What wisdom do they(you) have ” I know absolutely nothing. I was hoping other whites would show up to help me out, but apparently they’re all drunk and in a gutter somewhere.
“This blog criticizes white racism ” What little there is. Most of your problems come from other blacks. On balance, whites help blacks in the US. There is official “Black priviledge” you know. and we pay for it.
“I don’t think it’s your job” Lady, believe me, I’m doing this on my own dime.
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Oh, oh oh this is soooo entertaining. Hey Bliff, did you know that you are proving Abagond’s points. ( LOL, refer to points no. 3 & no. 4)
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@ Lifelearner,
I don’t think he cares honestly. Just more cherry picking and backtracking.
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lifelearner:
It’s a very interesting technique that Abagond uses here by “front running” any criticism by supposedly dimissing beforehand. His minions here can then just laugh and laugh and laugh when a commenter then tries to use that argument.
But he should just shortened it. No need for a list. Just state “Anybody who disagrees with me is stupid, and what he says is stupid”. Because, unless he explains how and why a particular argument is invalid, then he is essentially just making this shortened statement.
OK, Lifelearner, since you just stepped in it, it’s up to you to now explain how and why I violated points 3 and 4. If you don’t, then you’ll look like a fool.
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@ Bliff,
1. What “black privilege” are you talking about? And what do YOU pay for? I need you to really think about this question because I don’t want to hear any responses that actually don’t exist or are proven to be a necessity.
-For example, do not say “Historically Black Universities” because they traditionally offer more incentives to get white students and they were created purely because colleges were segregated and black people had to get educated too.
-Do not say “affirmative action” because it has been proven time and time again that there is no institution in place that directly picks black people purely on race and helps them to white people’s detriment.
-And do not say “welfare” because you cannot make a lifestyle on welfare, and many blacks pay into the system, so it’s not something white people “pay for”.
2. How do most of black problems come from black people? How do you think white people actually help black people? Can you come up with real examples of white people doing more to solve “our problems” than black people?
-Do not bring up Africa because there are plenty of black people who help there who get half of the recognition. Not to mention the initial white “Scramble for Africa” caused many of the problems that exist today. Same goes for Haiti.
-Do not say the Civil Rights movement because very few white people supported desegregation or equal rights then and the few that did risked life and limb, something white people do not do today.
-Don’t mention ending slavery either, because white people kept it willingly for hundreds of years, and only waited until it wasn’t worth the cost to keep before they started worrying about emancipation. Also they kept black people in slavery like conditions with the “black codes” and other legislation so there was no real moral imperative to end it.
Also, usually black people do perfectly fine without white people condescending and patronizing them. But the ones here are used to being offered white “pearls of wisdom” like”:
1. Your stupider than we are, despite all proof to the contrary.
2. You commit crimes that we don’t, despite all proof to the contrary.
3. You deserve our hatred, but don’t you dare even murmur a peep about us.
4. The Bill of Rights and Constitution protect us bigots, but not you.
5. If we slap you, say “Thank you, can I have another”, don’t hold us responsible for it.
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Ace:
“Historically Black Universities” , “affirmative action”, “welfare”, Africa,Civil Rights, and slavery. There!! I said it just because you said I can’t!!
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*crying from laughter
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^^^ exhibit A
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I guess Bliff is prove that strong emotions and a weak mind are a dangerous combination. He’s starting to get upset that us “negroes” know more than he does, a member of a superior race. He hates that we can present good arguments while he can’t provide anything useful, insightful, or through-provoking. So much for white supremacy, huh Bliff? Ha-ha.
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You know, you could have had just waited a day before outing me, yeah?
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“You know, you could have had just waited a day before outing me, yeah?”
***********************************
Yup D, you’re probably right. In hindsight I should’ve let Abagond make the call as it is his site.
But with the cyber Klan folk running wild and loose around here it didn’t seem like the right time to split the anti-troll contingent by going after (you) the false troll, don’t you think?
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@Ace-yep, you are right. Your last post was on point. I wouldn’t waste my time on Bluff, oops I mean Bliff*a lost cause* see no. 4 on Aba’s list. 🙂
Sidenote: I’ve truly enjoyed this blog and enjoy various commenters- my all time favs- are/were Abagond (of course), brothawolf, Demerera, Bulanik, sam, King, Tyrone, Matari, Henreith(you are Ha-lairious), truthbetold- I have more but this is off the top of my head. I was a lurker for sometime- you all are intimidating 😉 definitely brilliant minds representing. Keep fighting the good fight!
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Awww, thanks lifelearner.
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As much as I disagree with Bliff in general, he is right that Abagond attempts to discredit “white” arguments by preloading his own biases into the blog. That these arguments still occur doesn’t mean that Abagond has been proved right about anything.
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You shouldn’t be too hard on the “trolls”, without some of the evidence they provide- some may think you are just making alot of this stuff up.
I wasn’t really sure what a “troll” is and I checked the wiki, incase anyone else ran into that problem :).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
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@ Joshua,
Usually, when a white racist “troll” comes on and demonstrates the exact view that Abagond has mentioned in one of his posts, I think that proves him right. I don’t think talking about what white people have done to people of color means he’s pre-loading his biases into the blog, but I do think that people who come on and attempt to point out how “racist” he must be for doing so usually reveal their own biases in their arguments.
@ Deuce,
Ah, the dilemma of the troll. They are usually chaotic evil, but they can be used for good if we can catch them up and study them…sort of like Pokemon.
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Ace writes, Also, usually black people do perfectly fine without white people condescending and patronizing them.
Where?
But the ones here are used to being offered white “pearls of wisdom” like”:
1. Your stupider than we are, despite all proof to the contrary.
2. You commit crimes that we don’t, despite all proof to the contrary.
I’m interested in “all [the] proof to the contrary” you mentioned. Do you have statistics or peer-reviewed sources or something?
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– JT
Like the esteemed law professor Derrick Bell and others, I hold no illusions regarding the permanence of racism. Nonetheless, whenever I see the name Joshua, I’m reminded of Joshua Solomon – a name which represents a certain rare, unique attitude/heart amongst so-called whites …
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@ Matari,
Thank you. I really enjoy reading your responses. 🙂
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lifelearner:
“I wouldn’t waste my time on Bluff”. I think you meant “buff”.
I’m back. Give it another shot. How did I violate the Mighty Abagond’s list of no-nos?
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Anyone else notice that “Bliff” and “JT” have the same gravatar ID?
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Anyone else notice that “Bliff” and “JT” have the same gravatar ID?””
@ Randy
What are you smoking?
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As a general note to ALL, I am going to follow the Equivalent Work principle when responding to other commenters’ requests for references or other back-up on my statements. In other words, I will taking in to account how much work, effort, and typing the requester made when asking for back-up. If I wrote mucho paragraphs, and the requester responds with a simple “Hey, I don’t believe you, I want back-up”, they are not going to get anything. Any of us could be run ragged with responders demanding “lists of backup” with even providing an equivalent amount of work showing why they disagree with me.
I would urge all of you to adhere to this principle and require from responders to your comments.
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@ Bliff,
I think the difference is you are making ludicrous claims. Everyone else isn’t. Well, except Randy, Doug1, Joshua etc.
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JT:
I think what you meant to say is, the people who have opinions that differ from mine are, of course, making ludicrous claims.
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Black privilege is off topic here. So is affirmative action.
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JT / Bliff,
If you position your mouse over your usernames, the link resolves to the same gravatar profile “http://gravatar.com/personinmotion”, implying that you’re a sock puppet.
I mention this as a heads-up to other commenters.
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@ Abagond,
Your right, I apologize.
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@ Randy,
You’re grasping. Just a warning to other commenters.
Abagond, if you’re going to entertain him on here slandering me, could you at least confirm to everyone that I am not Bliff. You have my contact information and presumably Bliff’s.
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If Bliff were a JT sock puppet they would both be gone.
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@ abagond,
Which confuses me that I am even in this position to begin with – besides arguing for social justice vehemently, what have i even done here? Yes, i antagonize some posters through questioning their conclusions but that seems to be what should be done. As far as I’m concerned anyway.
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How do I fix this gravatar situation??
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@ Bliff
You need to register with Gravatar so you can post the image of your choosing. Something you like. Like a boot heel on the back of a Black neck. Or Buckwheat, or perhaps a confederate flag. You know, something you can identify with. 😛
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“How do I fix this gravatar situation??”
************************
Well .. if you’d just go away the “situation” would easily take care of itself.
(Tell Hans & Franz I said whazup!)
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Say Bliff, tell Sparky, Cody, Troy, Dick, Chip and Adolph I’ll see them at the next swim meet!
LOL! You left out Skipper & Chaz.
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Darqbeauty writes, “You need to register with Gravatar so you can post the image of your choosing. You know, something you can identify with.”
So you identify with a sun-tanned caucasian woman?
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@ Destructure,
If you think THATS a sun tanned Caucasian woman, you must not have seen that many women of color.
@ Darqbeauty,
I love your image. I clicked it to see close up and it is just gorgeous. I’m considering getting an image myself because I need something identifiable.
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Ace-
I think I’ve found a picture you can use for your gravatar.
http://goo.gl/QInBf
He’s rican so there could be some black in there somewhere. Maybe. What’s wrong? Don’t you know what a black guy looks like? LOL!
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agabond
I noticed brothawolf just made this comment:
Here’s the reality, and hold on to your seat for this one. Whites got to the top through genocide, slavery, and oppression against people of color. They got there by making “whiteness” default and superior. And many whites who are at the top in this day and age most likely have gotten some kind of “affirmative action” for themselves, inherited the wealth and power from a previous generation, or used underhanded tricks and schemes to climb the ladder and are still getting away with it because they have money and white skin.
I was wanting to respond. But then I realized it might be off-topic. It seems to be more about genocide and slavery than “trolls”. So I was just wondering, whether brothawolf hijacked the thread to rant about pet topics. And whether it would it be considered off-topic for me to respond to it. I don’t want to be too high and mighty to follow the rules.
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@ Matari
“if you’d just go away “. You mean you don’t want my kind around these here parts? Don’t worry, I’ll be gone by sundown.
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@ destructure
Brothawolf is a long time commenter who is not in the habit of derailing my threads, so he gets quite a bit of latitude. You are new and have derailed three threads in 24 hours. So, yes, I am cutting you less slack, at least for now.. Also your pet topics are hot button issues which are more likely to derail a thread than some casual aside.
You are allowed to respond to someone’s comment but if that takes the thread too far off topic for too long then I will prune it back. You will not get banned for that. But if I say x is off topic on a particular thread and you keep posting comments on it then I will ban you. I cannot babysit my blog 24/7.
There is also the Open Thread. You can never be off topic there.
I have yet to post on affirmative action, but I have done plenty of posts on IQ, HBD stuff, “The Bell Curve”: and so on. Also some on crime.
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Abagond:
It’s not about being the smartest person in the room. Have strong opinions, and articulate them in like fashion. That’s all that is required to be a member of this blog and other blogs. Folk can agree or disagree, but always challenge the status-quo. The truth is always evolving and changing, it never stays dormant. Don’t allow emotions to cloud your judgement, the facts are the facts. Be Still, find a quiet place and meditate. As human beings, we don’t give our brains any time to think.
Tyrone
Zen Aquarius
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yeah i like your take on the “earth being flat” ppl do believe what they are fed
another one is carrots are good for great eyesight..add that to your ponzi files
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Here are a couple of links involving internet trolls. The first link involves a troll who posted a picture of a teenage girl (Sophie Taylor) who was accidentally shot by her gamekeeper/boyfriend. This troll, Sean Duffy, posted a picture of her depicted of gunshot injuries. When the friends of the girl expressed their disgust towards Duffy. He replied, “”Ha ha. You can remove this as much as you want, I will just repost it.”
*Note how the news report mentions that he has Asperger’s Syndrome. It seems like they’re trying to excuse his cruelty.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/north/300821-internet-troll-apology-for-offensive-picture-of-schoolgirl-shooting-victim/
The second story you’re probably more familiar with. The BBC tracked down and caught up with another internet troll who posted hateful, racist remarks on a webpages dedicated to slain rapper Dolla and foreign exchange student Anuj Bidve. A BBC reporter caught up to him, and well…you see for yourself.
http://ontd-political.livejournal.com/9310222.html
These two examples of internet trolls have shown me that they both have one thing in common. They don’t give a damn about the people they offend. They could care less. They have no compassion for others it seems, and that’s what I see with the trolls that come here and visit other blogs. No matter how hurtful their comments are, they don’t think it’s a big deal to them.
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@ Bulanik: Do you have a blog or have you ever thought of starting one to complement your posts here?
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Bulanik,
I would suggest that regulation of so-called “hate” speech produces a far worse problem than it solves for two primary reasons:
1. It leads to the criminalization of ideas, a condition which is antithetical to free societies.
2. Governments, and the people administering them, cannot be entrusted with such power without leading to abuse. Tyranny arises where it’s allowed to.
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Bulanik
“Most of the time I feel unwelcome and generally ignored here at Abagond as it is..”
***************************************
FWIW, I’m GLAD you’re here!!!
: ))))
You bring interesting, balanced, reasonable, provocative, thoughts, ideas, challenges, logic, good manners ( LOL ) and MUCH information to the discussions here. So much in fact that I can barely keep up with all the stuff you put forth. So, I hope you’re not going anywhere any time soon.
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@ Randy
Just do a “Doug” and say it.
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@Bulanik
Trolls like “Bliff” don’t care because it’s “free speech”.
But, do trolls like “Bliff” care about “free speech” at all? No. There is no reasoning at all. None. There is as much reasoning in it as a barking dog to the post-man.
Trolls will claim they relish “open forum” because they can puff them selves up, as though they are taking part in some kind of community debate. But when anyone asks what their motivations and ideas actually are – it’s a dead blank.
Others like Randy use this blog-site to deal with shame in their own ethnicity.
Absolutely spot on. The statement above aptly describes the likes of Randy and Bliff’s approach to posting on forums such as this.
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Bulanik:
The central question at the heart of these discussions is “how to we build a just society?”
For examples of the propensity for abusive authority, one only needs to look at the repressive fascist and Soviet regimes of the recent past, or the totalitarian ones in the Middle East currently.
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The central question at the heart of these discussions is “how to we build a just society?”
“”””””
@ Randy,
There is a difference between your goal: “a more just society,” and the goal of many: “justice.”
Should the concern of white society be a priority?
No. Who’s situation have they ever made priority except for their own.
Should the concern of the growing numbers of POC be a priority?
Yes. They have been screwed by American imperialism for generations.
The truth is – White america is the only so-called nation that for the large part consumes their own propaganda. The rest of the world sees white america for exactly what it is: hypocrisy and social feudalism.
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Bulanik
“Most of the time I feel unwelcome and generally ignored here at Abagond as it is..”
***************************************
You bring an interesting & balanced perspective to the round table that’s insightful, wise, reasonable, provocative, challenging, logical, well mannered, funny, as well as germane and relevant to the discussions here. So much in fact that I can barely keep up with all the posts you put forth. 🙂
** You blew me away with that “picture of Randy” seated at a chessboard cloaked in his typically white Klan garb, accompanied with his large knife – that image perfectly reflected the allegory I posted about him and it was totally off the hook!!! I loved it!! **
Sooo, I hope you’re not planning on going anywhere any time soon.
I, for one, am VERY GLAD you’re here!!! : ))))
(Note to Abagond, seems like the first version of this post got lost. If it does eventually pop up, or if I overlooked it, please delete it. Thanks.)
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@Bulanik
Is it really too much to ask for people to behave decently online AND offline?
Obviously decency is viewed as some as a curtailment of their freedom, because being decent is an attack on the ‘sovereignty of the mind’.
It is it looks like. To some being ‘decent’ is to agree and share their views no matter how wrong they are. To some being decent is being weak. And if you are bothered by it, then to them, you have a problem.
There is something psychologically broken with these people if they think this way. There’s no other way to explain it.
As this is American blog-site, the First Amendment gets mentioned regularly when it comes to the speech of white supremacy.
I realize it wasn’t enshrined into US law to safeguard polite banter, but to protect unpleasant and highly offensive speech, political speech. (Naturally libel and incitement to specific acts of violence are exempted from protection.)
And notice in the second link with the BBC video, the man’s excuse was that “Facebook is an open forum. You’re entitled to your own opinion…” This is similar to the “free speech” arguments you hear.
I always say that just like you think you’re free to say whatever you want. So is everyone else in this society, including the ones who disagree with you and may get offended. People were offended by this jackass’s comments, and since “Facebook is an open forum” they could say how they feel as well.
I think some fools who use the “First Amendment” excuse think that it’s only entitled to them as individuals. They are narcissistic in their entitlement beliefs.
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Exactly. Their mindset can be summed up like this:
“I’ll defend to the death your right to say anything you want – as long as I agree with what you say!”
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@Bulanik
do trolls like “Bliff” care about “free speech” at all? No. Where do you get off making a statement like this? Where have I ever tried to suppress your, or anybody else’s free speech on this blog? Please support with examples from this blog.
I don’t believe we are actually entitled to free speech on this blog – Abagond could kick anyone off from commentting here if he chooses.
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FWIW, trolls aren’t cute, cuddly, or funny. They can do real harm, as online bullying has shown. People have taken their lives because of the actions of trolls. They deserve no sympathy or respect.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17420760
Bullying of all types needs to be addressed.
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@Matari
My guess is these trolls are very miserable and have pathetic lives. So, they project on those who are doing better than they are.
No matter how civil and logical you are. That doesn’t matter. They want to bring you down because they are not content with themselves.
Thanks for the video. Like the actor said, there is no logical explanation for why these racist trolls seek out anti-racist blogs. They don’t live on logic, just raw negative emotion directed at other people, people of color and anti-racist whites.
They are mad because they’ve failed in their lives. They believe they are entitled to be a success at whatever they wanted to be. When they see other people, particularly POC who are making it, the green-eyed monster rises.
There is another possibility with racist trolls. Some may have the slave masters’ mentality. They hate it when blacks write about the things white people do and say when it comes to race. These trolls want us to stay quiet and never, ever question or criticize white people no matter what. To do so is almost like an act of treason. So, they seek out anti-racist blogs and forums and unleash hell. They try to put us in our place but lack the intellectual charisma to do so as seen with these guys that spring up like mushrooms.
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@ Brothawolf
Your last paragraph sums up what I believe most importantly is going on here. So its worth repeating it:
If you take the analogy of the the slave master’s mentality. The slave master is plagued with an obvious sense of lacking…of a perceived deficit in his own sense of moral spirituality. A feeling of negative deficit that even a corruption and distortion of his own religion (Christianity) cannot adequately address and fill the gaping naked hole.
This is the shame or guilt that most of these racist trolls live with.
But there really is no need to hang on or cling to this wasted energy.
All they need do is spend time quietly reflecting on the many insights provided, free of charge, by the informed posts and more spiritually aware comments arising from them. They would soon realize that a way actually exists and has been provided for them to fill that vacuum in their faulty “only us matter white mentality self construct “.
Its this inability to self-reflect or deny this action as an opportunity for growth, change and self re-construction that keeps them at the same level (keeps them coming back) but also prevents their needless guilt and shame from dissipating.
Sadly, their artificial world view is now changing, falling in or rapidly DE-constructing its self and that opportunity for self-change and growth may soon be disappearing too.
And that is the stinging REALITY most of them secretly fear they face…Its tragic…!
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@ Bulanik
Your post contributions are as illuminating, insightful and deeply researched as they are many! And across many subjects as well. So it would be easy for you to provide a second outlet for them in your own Blog. One which I for one would be interested to follow and read. I’ve already used many of your researched comments in my own Facebook posts!
My suggestion is made not in terms of advocating spending less time posting here – if you sense your contributions are being ignored – but more in complementing and providing greater coverage for your efforts here.
You seem more than capable of doing both…
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@Bulanik
What kind of interior lives do these trolls lead? Their psychopathology
@ Brothawolf
My guess is these trolls are very miserable and have pathetic lives….No matter how civil and logical you are…Some may have the slave masters’ mentality. They hate it when blacks write about the things white people do and say
You guys are hilarious. Don’t you realize I can make a better argument that you are really just describing yourselves? I just come here to express my opinion on a subject I find interesting. You guys write like your life depends upon it.
And “civil and logical”?! Are you kidding? Check the “psychopathology” comment. I have seen little logic expressed here. Just good old blacks hating on whites.
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I agree with virtually everything you say, but as with even the greatest truth their are limits. When the whole world is rigidly at one with enforcing troll logic, you have to get away from them in order to discover rational thought.
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I mean, “there are limits…” WTELF?
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@ Kwamla
Over the past 5 years or so, I’ve noticed a deep struggle in the minds of most whites. On one hand, they want to be decent, good, moral people. Their lives depend on it.
On the other hand, they don’t know how.
They seem to lack the ability to be fair and just, to be unbiased, to be empathetic to another persons needs, to give entirely to others without expecting something in return.
In this conflict with themselves, greed, anger, comtempt and racism rears its ugly head and you get…voila! The commenters on this blog.
I’ve never seen such struggle with any group of people in my life.
That’s why they come here to listen to us, to argue with us, to dispute our views. For them, the fate of their whiteness depends on it.
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Brothawolf
“They hate it when blacks write about the things white people do and say when it comes to race. These trolls want us to stay quiet and never, ever question or criticize white people no matter what. To do so is almost like an act of treason. So, they seek out anti-racist blogs and forums and unleash hell. They try to put us in our place but lack the intellectual charisma to do so as seen with these guys that spring up like mushrooms.”
*******************************************
ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
These racist realists KNOW (on some level) that they have no intellectual/moral ground to stand on.
Their cookie-cutter go-to argument, besides blacks supposed genetic intellectual inferiority, is to accuse us of being reverse-racists; which is about as ridiculous as a sick child molester accusing a two year old toddler of sexual seduction.
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@truthbetold
I’ve noticed a deep struggle in the minds of most whites….I’ve never seen such struggle with any group of people in my life.
Funny, I’m white and I feel no struggle at all; none whatsoever. Just where are and who are these white people that you are imagining are undergoing this deep struggle. Perhaps they don’t exist – they are just a figament of your wily Black Mind.
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@Bulanik
SPITE COMES OUT OF DEPENDENCY. So you are saying that blacks are spiteful because they are so dependent on whites? This may be true, but I’m glad you said it and not me. From reading some of the international comments about blacks in Europe and Africa, its seems that they are about the same as in the USA – they are wholy dependent on whites for their economic survival. Everyone here is arguing for the helplessness of blacks.
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“From reading some of the international comments about blacks in Europe and Africa, its seems that they are about the same as in the USA – they are wholy dependent on whites for their economic survival. Everyone here is arguing for the helplessness of blacks.”
LOLOLOLOL..comedy at it’s best…I must applaud the American school system for producing such fine scholars…and then the Americans (especially white ones) wonder why the Europeans think they are not educated and cannot compete on the world stage.
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@Bliff
From reading some of the international comments about blacks in Europe and Africa, its seems that they are about the same as in the USA – they are wholy dependent on whites for their economic survival. Everyone here is arguing for the helplessness of blacks.
I strongly suggest that you stick to what you think you know rather than extending your generalisations worldwide. It is already clear how little you know about the Social and racial constructs within the U.S – dont embarrass yourself further by casting your ‘net full o’ holes’ across the globe *SMH*
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@Linda
why the Europeans think they are not educated and cannot compete on the world stage. I don’t really care what Europeans think about Americans. Europeans have been snotty about America for a long time. America certainly can and does compete on the world stage; I’m not sure what you meant by that.
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@Demerera
how little you know about the Social and racial constructs within the U.S. I’m not so sure YOU know. In the USA, blacks are dependent on the white economy for jobs. Many black professionals have to work in govt jobs. Generally, blacks don’t create many jobs in the USA themselves. It appears it’s the same in Europe; blacks have a hard time assimilating into white societies because..well…they’re black.
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“Bliff
@Demerera
how little you know about the Social and racial constructs within the U.S. I’m not so sure YOU know. In the USA, blacks are dependent on the white economy for jobs. Many black professionals have to work in govt jobs. Generally, blacks don’t create many jobs in the USA themselves. It appears it’s the same in Europe; blacks have a hard time assimilating into white societies because..well…they’re black.”
Wowwww, it’s like the gift that just keeps on giving…I used to blame the media and the school system for the dumbing down of Americans…now I am not so sure where to link the actual problem…
Bulanik, do you think it’s a regional thing? different people from say eastern US learn things different from people from Mid-west US?
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@Bliff
I don’t really care what Europeans think about Americans Ooooh…
I’m not so sure YOU know What is this – tit for tat?
It appears it’s the same in Europe; blacks have a hard time assimilating into white societies because..well…they’re black.
LOL Bliff, Carry on guessing and surmising like you are – when you have ventured beyond your own back yard and experienced the world for yourself a bit more, then I might consider engaging you further. Until then, stick to what you think you know, it makes for very amusing reading.
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@ Bliff
Would someone like to explain to this idiot what the phrase “circular logic” means?
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Linda asks:
“do you think it’s a regional thing? different people from say eastern US learn things different from people from Mid-west US?”
Yes. I’ve traveled extensively throughout the US and this disease is passed on from one person to another.
But one interesting observation:
Northern whites look down on Mid-western and Southern whites even though they still share the SAME racist views.
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@Bulanik
(I’ve just spluttered tea over my laptop! lol)
Who or What made you splutter?
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@Linda, Demerea, et al
Interesting. So far all you geniuses have done is attack me personally. How about a little substance?
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@Franklin
Do you know what circular logic is? My statement is equivalent to “Blacks and whites are different, therefore, blacks don’t fit into white society”. If you don’t agree, then show me different. Don’t just call names when it is obvious YOU don’t know what you’re talking about.
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@Bliff
Demerea????
Interesting. So far all you geniuses have done is attack me personally. How about a little substance?
Regarding these exchanges, I havent attacked you personally, I have merely responsed to the content and tone of your comments. It is YOU who insists on making sweeping and derisive judgements about people and countries that you care little for and know next to nothing about.
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“Bulanik
I’m afraid my travels in the US are simply too limited to give you an honest and fair answer.
But this is interesting! What do you think, Linda?”
My travels in US have been limited to eastern part of US (north and south)
Definitely a marked difference between Americans (both black and white) from north from the ones in south.
watching TV, one would believe that the Americans (white) in the mid-west are not as educated as the ones from the west or northeast but I try to not buy into stereotypes.
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“It appears it’s the same in Europe; blacks have a hard time assimilating into white societies because..well…they’re black.”
When dealing with Europeans, they may not know that they have to notice that you are black, Hello, I’m Myname, I’m a Georgian, from Georgia in the USA. or something like that can stop them from having to classify you as black.
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“teddy1975
When dealing with Europeans, they may not know that they have to notice that you are black, Hello, I’m Myname, I’m a Georgian, from Georgia in the USA. or something like that can stop them from having to classify you as black.”
Europeans are nationalist…they don’t seperate Americans into colours…to Europeans …black and white Americans are more or less the same…people are identified by country and ethnicity.
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@franklin; 😀 Oh man…
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It’s always nice to read this particular blog entry. Yep to #3 and #4 *don’t know how you do it* lol. 😉
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@ Abagond
Not anymore. They are learning and soon we will feel the ways they found to counter our freedoms of thinking. In fact we are witnessing already something of that sort. You wrote this post in the year 2012. But in the year 2016 you were already posting about the Russian trolls, saying that the regime in the Kremlin (and not only!) followed a concept of information war which was taking place in the realms of the Internet, where the trolls were seen like soldiers, namely
A significant change between those two moments, don’t you think?
The post in 2012 saw trolls as individuals behaving like children in the midst of adults and eventually spoiling the purpose of their meeting. In the year 2016 the trolls are aggregated in collective entities acting purposefully and concertedly with the goal of disrupt the action of their targets.
I think we are in this blog already under the attack of trolls of the second type.
We see them coming into various threads in duos or trios with an apparent point of view to defend, but slowly monopolizing the space of debate with their repetitive and circular interventions and pulling everybody to the vortex created in that way. In the process all other discussions become secondary. The compromised threads become difficult to read because they become full of abundant litter which takes the space of substance. Arguably, the end effect as this phenomenon persists for days long, is to lower the interest in the blog and to drive away many lurkers and commentators.
Before the election’s day I took (mistakenly, I see it today) such behavior as an attempt to counter the preference of the blog’s owner and some other commentators for the Democratic nominee, presented then as the least evil. A lot of effort was put in inverting this picture.
But after the election’s day their true colors came to the surface.
In a time where the ex-Democratic nominee lost the elections and became already a political dead horse, irrelevant for future prospects of the USA, they insist in pulling other commentators to discuss again and again that character, in detriment of real life issues originated in the wake of Trump’s victory.
Some commentators have called that behavior madness. But if it is, then there is some clear and unmistakable method to that madness. I think that their ultimate purpose is to remove the focus of the blog from issues pertaining to Black people (in USA first, but also in other places) and redirect it to generic or irrelevant issues. If they win this blog can lose its primary drive.
Abagond, in a time of Internet wars, hijacking or impersonating attacks, Denial of Service attacks (DoS) and other phenomena, you should remain acutely aware that the space you created more than one decade ago, to allow Black people and its friends, to discuss freely and openly their own issues, will not remain floating freely on untroubled waters. Black people have foes. Some even quite vicious. They will come to attack this blog to make sure that Black people remain mentally unprotected. And right now the White Nationalists are in ascension…
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@ munubanti
My thoughts exactly. Thank you.
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@munubantu
Well said! Thanks.
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@gro jo
I know you’re still crying over your girl Hillary’s election loss, but learn a lesson from it and stop lying so much. I’ve not said anything about your girl Hillary that wasn’t a fact.
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OFF TOPIC, WAY OFF TOPIC: Hillary Clinton.
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“resw
@gro jo
Blah, blah,blah, blah.”
When you have something sensible to say, I’ll reply.
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@gro job
“People should be challenged to prove their claims”—-We have got to stop agreeing on such things. However, this statement is very true. If claims are not challeneged then it allows people to pass on nonsense.
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@abagond
“OFF TOPIC, WAY OFF TOPIC: Hillary Clinton. ”
resw’s comment was not off topic. You have explicitly designated people who disagree with you about Clinton as trolls. Therefore comment is well within the parameters of this discussion.
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And groji, you are lying. What are those bs conspiracy theories being propagated again?
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Is munubantu defaming the regular commenters, here as did lom, as trolls?
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@ munubantu
Another difference with the new-school trolls is that they work together. Ignoring them does not work because they keep their idiocy alive by talking to each other.
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@nomad
You can talk about Hillary Clinton as used by trolls as a topic, but this thread is not going to be about Clinton herself. She has metastasized to enough threads already.
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@ gro jo
The reason I did not name names is because it bogs down the thread in personal accusations that allow the trolls to troll the thread.
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abagond
just keeping it real.
pointing out a lie when it is substituted for what has actually been discussed.
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@abagond
Say what? These new trolls don’t act like conventional trolls. Maybe that’s because they aren’t trolls. They just have opinions that differ from yours. Speaking as someone possibly designated as a troll, I have not spoken much to the other designated trolls. And I don’t deal in idiocy except to confront it. One such idiocy is designating long term commenters as trolls. As I have said before, that is bizarre.
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I said:
That, by the way, is a Russian troll tactic. It allows them to keep pushing their talking points even when no one bites.
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“That, by the way, is a Russian troll tactic. It allows them to keep pushing their talking points even when no one bites.”
Interesting observation. And you know this how?
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@ abagond
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones! Lol
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@nomad
“Reese’s comment was not off topic”
Of course gro jo mentioned “HRC” first, but he’s a Hillary-loving troll.
So abagond, who is clearly biased, only had something to say when I responded to the false accusations gro jo made about me
@gro jo
“blah, blah,blah blah”
Right, because you can’t prove your false accusations as usual.
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@ abagond
Yes, it’s true. I was thinking a little bit about possible solutions for this problem.
Right now it seems to me that you have a mix of manual and automated procedures to identify and eventually remove wrongdoing and wrongdoers.
Automated procedures include the ones involved in the tracing of improper words (banned words) or of sock-puppets. But the identification of trolls and a few other malicious behaviors is much harder because it cannot be easily automated. So you must rely on manually looking at them and this is obviously time consuming.
One thing that could help is if you count the entries (comments) of each commentator per thread in a specific time frame. It seems to me that people who want to troll, do it, in part, by flooding the blog and its threads with copious argumentation. This could be automated and give hints of possible misbehavior of that kind. You could create an automatic procedure to look at the threads and make the count (thread/commentator/number/period) and also you could set an alert level, for example, [one thread/one commentator/20 comments/in one single day] => [this is suspect!]. And look then specifically at that flow of comments to see if it they are normal or not*.
@ people unhappy with unfairness! from the blog’s administrator
I noticed that a few individuals have been claiming to be treated unfairly by the owner of the blog in the last few weeks (or months). Some of them want to discuss certain issues and are not allowed to or so it seems.
I suggest to those people that if they feel that they want to discuss a certain topic, like, for example “I want badly to kick that dead horse once more” and do not find the appropriate space on this blog, that they create a blog for themselves and post that topic there. Eventually they will attract many other like-minded individuals with whom they could discuss cited topic there.
I’ve not yet seen Abagond blocking any thought from anyone in his blog. But a problem can arise if people want to express the same ideas multiple times (>> 50, for example) repeatedly. In such an eventuality I suggest that they create their own space to do that freely.
Just two suggestions from a lurker and, at times, commentator at this blog…
P.S.:
* The appropriate number of comments in the alert level could be established by a trial and error process.
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@munubantu
“@ abagond
Another difference with the new-school trolls is that they work together. Ignoring them does not work because they keep their idiocy alive by talking to each other.”
“Yes, it’s true. I was thinking a little bit about possible solutions for this problem.
Right now it seems to me that you have a mix of manual and automated procedures to identify and eventually remove wrongdoing and wrongdoers.”
“wrong doers” = independent thinking
this is paranoia encouraging paranoia.
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just ban me already. that will solve one of your problems.
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“interesting observation. And you know this how?”
+1000.
I love how abagond has suddenly become an expert on Russian trolls, without any factual basis at all. And yet he has the gall to accuse others of touting conspiracy theories.
But then again abagond is a proven hypocrite.
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Use of the word “Hillary” or “HRC” in comments on this blog from December 1st to 8th 2016 (the fourth week after she lost the election) by those who commented during this period:
# of times: username
20: resw
19: Fan
18:
17:
16:
15:
14:
13:
12:
11: nomad
10:
9: gro jo
8:
7:
6: Solitaire, abagond
5:
4: sharinalr, Afrofem
3:
2:
1: Open Minded Observer, michaeljonbarker, Lord of Mirkwood, vanishingpoint,
0: Blanc2, Deb, Apoorva, Mzi, Anonymous, Erika Butler, Joe, Qelilah Solomon, Paige, v8driver, Mary Burrell, blakksage, satanforce, munubantu, jefe, Allen Shaw, Glenn, Kartoffel, KoolAid, villagewriter, menelikcharles, TeddyBearDaddy, Kiwi, Brian Connolly, Herneith, leigh204, dorisjean23, J. Harold, Omnipresent, Anton, stephaniegirl, taotesan, Brian, bigdp58, Legion/SW6, Zoe Jordan
Mentions by me, Abagond, during this period:
0 times in posts
4 times as moderator
2 times as commenter
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@ nomad
Based on my reading about Russian trolls. My main sources are listed in the post I did on them:
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@abagond
As you know, my mentions of “Hillary” were primarily used as a description for you and your cabal of her supporters. It’s only done to draw attention to the fact that you’ve begun making exceptions to the rules for your cabal, and unfairly treating those who did not support your girl.
But great job misleading your readers once again.
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Except the “cabal of her supporters” all seem to be down at the bottom of the list lol
Abagond should do the same list with “Trump”. I’ll score higher on that.
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@michaeljonbarker
“Except the “cabal of her supporters” all seem to be down at the bottom of the list lol”
And?
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There is no “cabel of Hillary supporters” on this blog. That’s totally imaginary just like your sock puppet.
The “cable of Hillary supporters” work at CNN and MSNBC.
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@michaeljonbarker
“There is no ‘cabel of Hillary supporters’ on this blog”
Contradicting yourself already or are you retracting your statement that they “all seem to be down at the bottom of the list “?
“imaginary just like your sock puppet”
It must be in your imagination since I don’t have one.
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Resw,
“They create disagreements for their own amusement and then make it about winning the argument – because deep down they do not take the subject seriously.”
“The trouble with black sock puppets is not that they are wrong – sometimes they are right – but that they are arguing in bad faith.” Abagond
Hillary is just a useful distraction for your amusement.
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@Abagond
Your listing of frequency of use of the word “Hillary” or “HRC” in comments on this blog really confirms a lot. Thanks for shining a light on who and how often.
@munubantu
Thank you for your injection of reason and suggestions for analytical methods.
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“Use of the word “Hillary” or “HRC” in comments on this blog from December 1st to 8th 2016 (the fourth week after she lost the election) by those who commented during this period:”
So what? Is there some kind of prohibition on commenting about Hillary? I have never understood why you, Abagond, have made such an issue of that. Weird. Bizarre. And your Russian troll issue is paranoid neo-MaCartheism.
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I’m not chastising the people at the bottom of the list for not mentioning Hillary enough. But perhaps I should.
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be careful, gro jo man. you’re right on the cusp. 9 times? tsk tsk tsk
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From Abahonds lpst on Russuin trolls,
“Russia is hardly alone: the governments of Ukraine, China (50 Cent Party), Britain, Israel and the US (Operation Earnest Voice) also employ trolls. Presumably others do as well.”
The Young Turks did a piece about the Hillary campaign hiring trolls to go after Bernie Sanders during the primary.
The U.S.govenmemt trolls do more then just disrupt and influence opinion. They collect information about your likes, dislikes, what sites you visit and the company you keep.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/07/government-trolls-are-using-psychology-based-influence-techniques-on-youtube-facebook-and-twitter.html
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@ Nomad
Hopefully I’m wrong about Trump.
I don’t view you and Fan as trolling. I respect your opinion that Hillary was the greater evil and believe you are sincere.
My issue with Rsew is different. I don’t belive she is sincere at all and finds enjoyment in perpetuating and amplifying disagreements.
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I wouldn’t know about that, but resw has given me some good insights. “Univision” for example. Priceless.
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Some killings I take personally. She killed Gaddafi. I’ll never stop bashing her. Even if she’s in prison. I’m still going to be bashing her.
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@ Nomad.
Yes she is responsible for what happened in Lybia but even if Hillary was not in the State Department I believe the event still would have happened anyway.
The “Arab spring” was no benifit for Arabs in the region. The instability was deliberately created to benifit American interests and by extension Isreal.
Independent and self reliant Arab nations outside of American influence are viewed as a threat.
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@ everyone not in-love with Blue Pills!
HO, Ho ho (in keeping with the season to be jolly…), I see the disingenuous (and now slick) Abagond is up to his old tricks AGAIN! Is it an honest error, or shall I judge him with the same exactitude he judges and moderates the anti-hillary crowd??
Certainly there are OTHER KEY WORDS that have to do with Hillary other than the two he used. I know for a fact that Allen Shaw, AND munubantu for example, who both come in supposedly at ZERO when using Abagond’s specific search keywords have referred to Hillary as Mrs. Clinton, or some other label or nomenclature. Why not check everyone’s usage of all the possible or likely used variants?? We’re NOT ALL automatons here, thinking and writing in the same syntax. Abagond, you should stop posing as a neutral and unbiased keeper of your own blog! SMH… Astoundingly unbelievable …!
In short, I believe Abagond’s data/research accuracy about as much as I believe the preciseness of the FBI’s crime stats on the Black crime rate vis a vis white crime. Both sets of stats are skewed/designed to misrepresent the truth.
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michaeljonbarker
“Yes she is responsible for what happened in Lybia but even if Hillary was not in the State Department I believe the event still would have happened anyway.”
That’s like saying whoever was president during 911 would have invaded Iraq.
I don’t believe that. This was all part of the grand scheme of hers and Obama. The same scheme that created ISIS. Regardless, it was her watch it happened under. She’s responsible. She engineered it.
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@ MJB
“Independent and self reliant Arab nations outside of American influence are viewed as a threat.”
.
Let’s not forget Iran, another self-reliant (yet NOT Arab) nation that’s considered the greatest threat in that region of the world because they too wish to eventually have some of the same nuclear weaponry the big boys (Israel, USA, Russia, N Korea, Great Britain, India, China, etc) have.
The global enforcers/police are against that ever happening. Sort of like the original gun control laws that were designed to keep firearms out of the hands of Black people.
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We get it, everyone hates either Billary or Dump. Move on! There is a fantastic sale on at Costco!
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Just what this thread needed: crime stats!
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@ nomad
This comes across as a fake excuse.
Gadafi was killed in 2011. You have been commenting on this blog since 2011, but said not a word about him till August 17th 2016 – even though I did an election post on Hillary Clinton and brought up Libya point blank.
Timeline:
February 27th 2016: Abagond:
Source:
August 10th: Donald Trump:
Source (Politifact rated this a “Pants on Fire” falsehood):
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/aug/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-pants-fire-claim-obama-founded-isis-c/
August 17th: nomad:
Source;
– which was the first time you brought up Gaddafi in a comment on this blogl
In that comment you did cite an August 17th Black Agenda Report article by Glen Ford, but unlike you, BAR has been consistently slamming the US and the West on Libya, not just back in 2011 but even earlier in 2016. So your sudden awakening on this issue seems to come from Trump, not BAR.
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believe what you like abagond. I don’t care. you cant terraform this mind.
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abagond
“Gadafi was killed in 2011. You have been commenting on this blog since 2011, but said not a word about him till August 17th 2016 – even though I did an election post on Hillary Clinton and brought up Libya point blank. ”
I have not been commenting since 2011. I popped in from time to time, like I pop in at a dozen other blogs. I’ve only been commenting consistently for about a year. so you don’t know what I’ve been saying. even if that is the case and it comes from trump. so what? get it thru your head. I say what I want to say when I want to say it and I don’t care whether you like it or not.
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Nomad
“This was all part of the grand scheme of hers and Obama. The same scheme that created ISIS.”
Neo liberals and neocons have the same foreign and economic policies. Its in part why both parties are a duopoly. U.S. Imperialism got its start with George Washington and today we are an Empire.
Some sepculate that if AL Gore had been elected president the U.S. would never have invaded Iraq.
I would speculate that Gore, as a neo liberal, would have.
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OFF TOPIC: US foreign policy, except as an example of trolling.
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what hubris! gonna tell me what I believe and what my motives are. take that this and shove it.
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@ nomad
You say you are just reacting to what I say and that your concerns are genuine and independent of Trump. No. You are acting like a Trump shill while pretending not to be one. That is what I am trying to show.
If it quacks like a duck…
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@nomad
Comment deleted. US foreign policy is off topic.
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@michaeljonbarker
Comment deleted. US foreign policy is off topic.
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I didn’t see the off topic till after I posted
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@ nomad
I am not telling you what to believe. I am pointing out that you seem to be arguing in bad faith, something that trolls do.
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@abgond
“I am not telling you what to believe. I am pointing out that you seem to be arguing in bad faith, something that trolls do.”
you are entitled to your opinion. and that’s all it is. as long as you keep trying to smear me I’m going to keep responding to your smears.
“You say you are just reacting to what I say and that your concerns are genuine and independent of Trump. No. You are acting like a Trump shill while pretending not to be one. That is what I am trying to show. ” Good luck with that.
I know that’s what you’ve been trying to show. I’m saying that you are deluded.
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I don’t see Nomad as a shill for Trump. Rather I see him as obsessed over Hillaries misdeeds and he sources some of his opinion from sites that are shilling for Trump.
I do recall one comment where he naively thinks Trump might not be inclined towards war but that’s not an endorsement of Trump.
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@mjb
nonono. you folks cant misrepresent me like that. I said trump was less inclined than Hillary. she was definitely stoking war w Russia. trump was saying lets work with each other. I also said the deep state would try to push him towards war w Russia. and that is exactly whats happening.
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@michaeljonbarker
“Hillary is just a useful distraction for your amusement.”
And how do you know that? Are you omniscient too, like abagond?
I could easily say my race and gender is a “useful distraction for your amusement”, since this is now at least the fifth time you’ve derailed a discussion to focus on it. Because you, the creepy, self-admitted racist, know so much about how black people are supposed to talk and behave.
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@nomad
We have to understand that Abagond is still extremely devastated by his girl’s loss. He invested so much time and energy in trying to get her elected, and it was a failure.
That’s why he can’t even stand the mention of the H word anymore. You’d think after a month he would have come to terms with things, but it really is sad to watch abagond continue to crumble.
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resw
@nomad
“We have to understand that Abagond is still extremely devastated by his girl’s loss.” you speak true.
Gotta blame somebody. And I specifically remember saying before the election “Don’t blame me if Trump wins.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/08/dont-blame-me-if-trump-wins/
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“Just what this thread needed: crime stats!”
.
Yup.. and more challenged/special needs people with an overwhelming lack of understanding what they’re reading, ISSUES!
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@nomad
Deleted two comments as off topic – one was on US foreign policy, the other on Hillary Clinton (which you copied to the Trump Era thread where it better belongs).
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