The Christian Bible is long but the more times you read it – and the more of it you read – the more it makes sense. Yet it is more book than you could understand in a lifetime.
Even if you do not believe it is the Word of God it is still worth reading if you want to understand Westerners or Christians. Too much has been built on it. Besides, no other book has been read by more Westerners, from country to country and from age to age.
It is a long book so you cannot read it in a weekend. You need a schedule and stick to it through thick and thin. Set apart a certain time every day or every week to read it. Large stretches of the Bible are extremely boring, like Leviticus, other parts make little sense, like Isaiah, and some are both, like Ezekiel. But you just got to push on and stick to it all the way to the end, to the last Amen. It is worth it because the Bible will make so much more sense that way.
An excellent example of that are the animal sacrifices it goes on and on about. It was how the Jews made things right with God back in the old days. You think, “Why am I reading this?” But then, of course, when you get to the part where Christ dies on the cross you see why.
Or: You read about how the Jews on the night of the first Passover put lamb’s blood above their doors so the angel of death would pass over their houses. Then later Jesus, the Lamb of God, saves believers with his blood. At Passover time.
It is better and deeper and has more layers of meaning than what anyone would have made up.
Before I read the Bible I thought it was just a pack of lies, the Jewish counterpart to the old Greek stories of gods and heroes. Its truth, if any, was at best allegorical, like in a fairy tale. But having just read some communist histories of China I saw that it was not quite that simple.
Ideological histories make everything clean, they throw out the shameful parts and the parts that do not seem to fit. The Bible does not do that. It is as matter of fact about the parting of the Red Sea as it is about evil queens and genocide.
The part that sold me was the Golden Calf. Right after God had saved the Jews from the Egyptians with the plagues, the parting of the Red Sea and all that, they did what? They turned on him. They returned to their old idol-worshipping ways they learned in Egypt. It is not what you would expect, it is not what a made-up history would have put, and yet once you read it you know down in your bones that that is just the way it would go.
See also:
What I find most intriguing about the bible are the scriptures pertaining to the end-times (bible prophecy).
BTW Abagond, do you have a written or unwritten policy regarding posting comments in a certain frequency/post ratio?
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@ Matari:
No such policy.
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Yep reading the bible is quite a task. I did complete it this year on a schedule as described above. I would agree it definitely does a great job of describing the heart of humanity from the old testament to the new testament, all messed up-corrupt, backward. But God 🙂
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I’ve never had the patience to fully read a Bible, though I’ve skimmed through pretty much all of it. I was the same way with the Koran during my curiosity years in college. I suppose some of the values (also found elsewhere) are implanted, so I never felt the need to seek solace in the book.
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Those are some dangerously bold statements you make about scripture, Abagond… 😉
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I think the Bible has the same amount of value as the Norse eddas or Greek myths or any other made up fairy tales.
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I’ve never really been a fan of the Bible (I assume you mean the King James version). Because for the all the undoubted wisdom and truths it is said to contain far too much of it has been used,,abused and distorted over the centuries to keep people in a form of unquestioning religious bondage.
It is for this reason- though I could name many others – I have never been even remotely inspired to devote the necessary time to read it in full as you describe. Perhaps for this reason, it could be argued, I may not be the best person to offer criticism about it. But I have read and listened to what many others have said. And I have observed the hypnotic hold it can have on some people. Particularly in the US, but also in African, Caribbean and South American countries too..In fact all over the Christian world!
Perhaps, Abagond or anyone else, could help enlighten me here on how to reconcile praise of the Bible and its instrumental role in the past institutions of Slavery and Colonialism?
A question I remember posing here on this blog nearly a year ago…
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@ Kwamla
Science has been used to support racism too. It has given us nuclear weapons. Does that make science untrue? That is not how you judge the truth of something, by its misuse. If you are going down that road you will be left with nothing, not even mother’s love.
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I recommend the Tao Te Ching. The Bible will put you in a box. The Tao Te Ching will free you.
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When I read your blog, I always get the feeling that there is more to the story than what you are writing.
In terms of the bible, personally, I would like to read those missing chapters that have been hidden away or removed from it…..Some parts of the bible get lost in translation from one language into another.
Besides, some things are down to misinterpretation or misunderstanding…..The way I would interpret certain things is not the way that someone else would necessarily interpret it….This is how it is with the bible, people give you their own understanding of what they have read, could be wrong, could be right.
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I don’t believe it is the word of god but that doesn’t mean there is no truth in it at all. Though the bible canon, as we know it, is a more recent product than the books which comprise it. Some books were left out. So I can’t conclude that when Bible writers refer to ‘scripture’ they are alluding to the compilation marketed to us.
Take curious things like:
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven” – 2 Corinthians 12:2
I don’t know of many other biblical passages that refer to this but the Book of Enoch (not canonical) does speak of numbered heavens.
Or
The mentions of Jannes and Jambres (2 Timothy 3:8) as the names of the Egyptian magicians when the Old Testament books we have don’t call names.
Likely Paul was referring to sources we no longer have (or God told him if you’re a true believer).
But I’ll admit that it is pretty frank about the ‘failings’ of the Jews. The people who wrote the books would have been the learned ‘scribal’ class. I’m not surprised that the ordinary people had difficulty following their religion. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are laws, laws, laws many carrying a penality of death by stoning. This would have been their obligation while living among people with no such obligation. It’s easy to see what would happen there.
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BTW, a cause for the bible’s character is the thought universe from which it arises. Its theological concepts are a mystification of might and control. The God is an anthropomorphic abstraction of power over everything. That leads to the natural consequence of following a code of laws issuing from this being. Many other religions mystify nature. Even when they allow for the existence of deities those are simply manifestations of natural forces. So the laws are self-evident in the natural order. Therefore there is no rule book just ways of life. In many ways, Jesus Christ is a huge departure and is closer to this latter model. However, in its reincarnation as an institutionalized religion, christianity became legalistic as well.
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“…it is not what a made-up history would have put…”
I don’t see any reason to believe this.
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Interesting just about when I was about give up on Abagod. It is important to differentiate between the Christian Bible and the Jewish not to mention the Koran. The Jewish belief system is for Jews and the Christian system is in theory universal.
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There is clearly much in the Bible that is true, but also some of it is merely folklore, myths and allegories.
A mistake a lot of people make is to treat the whole thing as historical fact because they think it’s important to do so as a Christian; or equally, to dismiss the whole thing because of the parts that are clearly myth.
While I do not believe that Bible is the word of God, at least in its entirety, that doesnt’ mean that it is outright lies either. Rather, the people who wrote it down sincerely believed in what they were writing, primarily because they were recording accepted truths passed down from their forefathers.
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As some one who has studied both the bible and the koran, I must admit that I do not see much difference between them. We can argue about their differing meanings and teachings, but in the end both are works of religion and I do not follow any religion for the simple reason that I see religions as systems of control, hierarchial power systems which are designed to control the people.
In all religions the basic concept is the same: there is some selected group of (usually) men who know what god means and who are in connect to the god and tell the rest what god wants from them. This is something which I find very disturbing.
Also, when reading bible, studying bible, it would be good to find out the original meanings of some of the wordings. One good example is turning the other cheek. At the time of the writing the bible, according some reseachers, in the first century AD turning the other cheek was an inslut in the jewish culture. If some one hit you on a cheek and you turned the other for another blow, this showed that the punches lacked any power. That they meant nothing.
Also during those times all jewish men and women were considered as sons and daughters of the god. So Son of the God could mean simply a devout jewish man.
Geza Vermes has written some good books about the christianity. Changing faces of Jesus is one. I also recommed the Nag Hammadi texts and other apocryphic texts to go along with the bible.
What happens when one does not know anything about the history of the christianity, is that one makes such conclusions as Badwolf above did. He does not know or understand that Jesus, Yeshua, was a jewish man. Nor he knows or understands that the very first church of Jerusalem was jewish, lead by the brother of Yeshua, James, Yakob, Yakov. The very first christians considered themselves as jews and they were considered as such.
Badwolf propably does not even know that the very word messiah meant something totally different for the jews than to him. I bet he does not know even that the very word messiah comes from the old egyptian word messeh, which was one of the title of the pharaos and meant that they were anointed with the fat of the holy corcodiles of the river Nile.
Many people, christians or non, do not usually know that the Jesus figure we know was totally invented by Paul and the teachings of this Jesus are not originals. The greek philosophers had talked about the same things hundreds of years before the Jesus story. Forgiving and loving ones enemies, loving your neighbour, all these were familiar stuff centuries before the Pauls Jesus. Of couse they had different wordings but the ideas were old.
This being said, I think everyone should read the bible. It is, like abagod says, very important in order to understand western culture and history. One can not even understand communism without knowing the bible and christianity it created. So what ever you think about the religion or priests or anything, I recommend it. One of the corner stones of the present western civilization.
And I can go on the record here that I am a man with very deep faith. I am not a religious guy but I do believe in god. It might be a bit different concept than in the religions, but I have very strong belief. I just do not believe in religions nor I am an atheist whom I consider a bit funny in their zelotism.
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@ Sam
Have you read, The Shack, by William P Young?
I read it a couple of years ago and found it to be a fascinating allegorical story clearly written by an INSPIRED person. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading!
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One thing that I have noticed about reading the Bible is that depending on what I am experiencing in my own life different books or verses will resonate with more meaning for me. Like you Abagond certain books are more challenging to get through. For instance, Revelations scares the crap out of me; I find it difficult to understand the symbolism in Revelations. When I was in college, my former pastor decided to teach from Revelations in our Bible Study class. He started going through it verse by verse; unfortunately he passed away before completing the study.
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@matari: Not yet but now I have to check it out. Thanks.
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For me much of your posts and in depth analysis about Racism and “whiteness” are exceptionally articulated, reasoned and logically presented. Unfortunately when it comes to questions of the Bible and the Christian religion you seem to throw this well honed and seasoned methodology out the window.!!! Why?
Your analogy about Science illustrates this. Western Science was created to project and perpetuate a particular set of truths. Those “truths” are supposed to be unquestionable and universal. But they are NOT!!! And thats the problem!!!
How do you judge the truth of something? Thats a good question. For me you judge it by its application to your life experiences and the experiences of others. If it sustains, cherishes and supports that life experience then it becomes true for you and others. If it does not then it becomes questionable.
So a Science that can be used to support Racism is equally as questionable as a Science that can used to produce Nuclear weapons. On the surface it appears true. But on deep analysis it is found to be wanting.
The Bible is no different in this regard. Its a collection of many different “truths”. Some more questionable than others. Its initial application and purpose may well have been well intentioned in promoting the true belief of a Loving God or Creator. But somewhere along the line, just like Science, this has been hijacked and distorted for the purposes of manipulation and control.
The question still remains for me Abagond why you seem unable to subject this to the same degree of logic or reasoned methodology as you do with your other posts.
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The more I read the bible, the less I believed it. The contradictions in the resurrection & ascension story(Matt 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20, & Acts 1) was the last straw for me.
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@ Kwamla
It seems we have a very different idea of what truth is. The truth can be unpleasant and even cause great destruction.
It is possible, for example, for science to one day discover that Europeans and Asians have a brain mutation that makes them more intelligent than everyone else. Of course I would question it and doubt it, but it might still turn out to be true after all. I am not going to rule that out.
It is not going to be apparent in a post like this, but I have applied my reason as much to religion as to racism. Probably even more so since the conclusions I came to were more personally uncomfortable and so were more thoroughly questioned by me.
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@ Abagond
It’s true we ALL have different ideas of what truth is. Because each of us (7 Billion and counting…) is our own truth. We are all our own subjective reality we call truth. But we also have our shared, agreed upon or collective reality which we “resonate” with and we call this “The Truth” or “objective reality”.
This is perhaps where we differ. Which is why you can make a statement like this:
“…It is possible, for example, for science to one day discover that Europeans and Asians have a brain mutation that makes hem more intelligent than everyone else. Of course I would question it and doubt it, but it might still turn out to be true after all. I am not going to rule that out…”
IF… it could still turn out to be true. Who would decide that? You’re holding out for the possibility of discovering some ultimate objective truth. But even then you might question and doubt it? So Again. How would you decide?
This line of reasoning makes no sense to me. But it does show a degree of uncomfortableness with accepting or coming to terms with how you decide on your own personal truths.
Which is why it’s also probably reflected in the first statement of your post:
And…I think the Cynic has just pointed out one of the biggest reasons why that statement is highly questionable..
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fact
1. A piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred.
2. A concept whose truth can be proved.
3. A statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened.
4. An event known to have happened or something known to have existed.
truth
1. The quality of being near to the true value.
2. A fact that has been verified.
3. A true statement.
4. [Truth] United States abolitionist and feminist who was freed from slavery and became a leading advocate of the abolition of slavery and for the rights of women (1797-1883).
5. Conformity to reality or actuality.
opinion
1. The reason for a court’s judgment (as opposed to the decision itself).
2. A vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
3. A personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.
4. A belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people.
5. The legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision.
6. A message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.
belief
1. A vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
2. Any cognitive content held as true.
spiritual
1. Lacking material body, form, or substance.
2. Resembling or characteristic of a phantom.
3. Concerned with sacred matters or religion or the church.
4. Concerned with or affecting the spirit or soul.
5. A kind of religious song originated by Blacks in the southern United States.
faith
1. Loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person.
2. Complete confidence in a person or plan, etc..
3. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
4. An institution to express belief in a divine power.
The above definitions are from TheSage’s English Dictionary and Thesaurus.
I placed them here as a help AID (or clue) that might assist some people in understanding why some folks cannot and will not always understand the reasoning of others.
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@ Matari
Since you obviously rely heavily on looking at sources such as the one quoted above perhaps while you’re there you could also find a definition for your own personal truth about “whiteness”. It would certainly assist me in understanding you’re own reasoning for this.
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Nice one abagond , GOD is not man and cannot be mocked .
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@ Kwamala
I don’t rely heavily on anything/anyone (except the Creator)..
Good Luck to you K – in YOUR understanding of things! 🙂
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The bible is truly not an historical document. It reproduces a weak version of the Ancient Egyptian concept of the begining of creation, and I mean a very weak replication of the Memphite Theology.
It is somewhat an explaination of the precession of the stars. Of Astornomical events also previously documented in Ancient Egypt.
Gives what could be determined as civil laws for an uncivilized people.
Give dietary laws for these same people, and attempts to express a form of compassionate living.
It can also be a remedy to escape or breaking of the cycle of returning here to Amenta as first given by Horus and later repeated by Jusus.
Peace
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Abagond, the Bible, like many Greek and Roman myth, have astrological influence. You can, for example, see patterns such as astrological numbers (7 and 12) being used in both myth and the Bible.
The Old testament has been described as an Arien (Aries) book, due to its Arien metaphors. Fire, wilderness, stubborness, etc. The new testament is Piscean, with many references to water, fish and feet (Piscean symbolism).
You mentioned the Israelites using lamb blood as protection when “god” passed over Egypt. The Hebrew word Pesach (passover) literally means “to pass over, ” but there is evidence it was referrring to the astrological phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes, itself a symbol for the change in cosmological age–from Aries to Pisces.
I@Abagond, think Kwamla is right about you. You have a blindspot–RELIGION.
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As a Christian, I thank you for this post, Abagond
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the bible does not make sense to me it is filled with contradictions, historical events that never happened, advocated slavery, genocides and copied stories from ancient Mesopotamian myths
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The more I read the bible, the less I believed it. The contradictions in the resurrection & ascension story(Matt 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20, & Acts 1) was the last straw for me.
Thank you.
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Abagond:
Is the holy bible still relevant in the black community? Is organized religion still relevant in the black community? Black people are the most god-fearing people on the planet, yet, we’re being torn apart by two forms of religion that have caused us a lot of pain and heartache…Islam & Christianity. Islam is killing us in Africa, and Christianity is enslaving us in America…Contradiction!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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@Tyrone
I don’t think what is killing people in Africa or America has anything to do with religion.
I think what is killing Africans, Americans and countless people around the world is the inability to think outside of the box, stupidity and a lack of common sense….Also inability to foster other people’s ideas, except our own. How can we move forward if we won’t even listen and digest what other people have to say.
Instead of doing our own independent reading and thinking, we allow others to do our independent thinking for us and do not allow varied points of view, except the brainwashed view that we grew up with.
Also, let me add greed…..As long as people continue to be greedy and senseless, none of us is going to get anywhere fast.
Anyway, that’s just one of my many observations, and I have many more.
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@ Cynic
The reason you think the resurrection and ascension stories contradictory, is because of the way you understand it, you understand it through other’s point of view and not objectively. Or maybe you see it as farfetched for a man to rise from the dead and go into heaven.
A sensible judge would not say ‘The contradictions in the resurrection & ascension story(Matt 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20, & Acts 1) was the last straw for me.’ And just give up. For a book or writings that has stood the test in more ways than one needs to be given more credit.
The information is not wrong nor is it lies, it is the understanding we have not yet reached. I grew up in church and I still study the bible like I would my school lesson or some theory. And if it does mot make sense I study harder.
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@ Happiness
I agree with you.
Beside greed and stupidity….’Sin is a reproach to any nation’. Even to Israel (God’s people according to the scriptures).
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My interpretation of this post, based on information I already know is that:
Someone was saved from the parting of the red sea (rape), after said person was saved, she has been deemed an evil queen, probably because the ones who ‘saved’ her have been double crossed, or think that they have been double crossed.
Of course, there is genocide which interpretes to murder.
Yes, the Jews with the plagues, trying to kill first born sons and all that. Egypt, can be interpreted to be a certain shop in the heart of Central London, or thereabout.
The hero felt that he was going to be let down right from the beginning and went along to help anyway as now feels let down/disappointed/betrayed?
I understand it all perfectly.
I’m not as stupid as I look.
(Well, hopefully, I won’t get banned from this blog as I did from Hicksvillle or is it Hicktown, for telling it like it is)
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the bible complicates The Creator….
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I know this is delicate. Religion is delicate. But the Bible is one of my favorite books. There is much division in the Protestant religion on how to interpret it. But personally after much study and meditation,it always has a fresh revelation. This is my personal revelation. The sad thing is many misinterpret the scriptures and use them for their own evil agendas under the guise of religion.Slavery is a good example of this.
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