White American racism, as best as I can understand it, sees four kinds of humans, here listed in order of worth:
1. Real People, also called “normal”, are those who are fully human. They have the full range of human thought and feeling. They fall in love, have deep thoughts, an inner life and all that. Clearly you cannot stereotype them – they are individuals! Their lives have an independent value – unlike Tonto, Spock or Stacey Dash in “Clueless”. When they are about to get hit with a hurricane, the government is ready before it hits, not days later with bodies lying in the street. Because their lives matter. Because they are, like, you know, Real! They have mothers who care about them and cry over them! We require hourly updates on their missing women, at least the good-looking ones. And because they can think such deep thoughts, they can disagree with mainstream opinion and be taken seriously, at least if they are male. They play the lead character in most Hollywood films.
2. Almost Real People: These are pretty much like Real People, but because they look a little different, speak with an accent, come from some strange place or follow some strange religion, they are not completely normal. You can tell that their range of thought and feeling is somewhat limited. They may be very good at certain things, they may even be noble or wise, but they are rarely well-rounded. Because they are so limited, the stereotypes about them are pretty much true. Most of them dress well, have money, know their place and speak English well enough, so they seem pretty much Real, but not quite.
3. Fellow Human Beings are anatomically modern humans whose lives and deaths do not seem real. You are supposed to care about them, that is what your mother told you, but it is hard to work up any feelings for them. Because you barely know anything about them. They only matter when they are suffering enough to appear, briefly, on television. People like Angelina Jolie and Bono, who have seen them first-hand, carry on about them.
4. The Despised Other has some scholarly meaning that I do not fully understand, but the phrase is perfect for what I have in mind: those who are so unbearably different – you know, like by having lips that are too big or something – that it is required to look down on them, to notice all their faults and remember the worst-sounding, half-heard facts about them as profound truths. They have grave character faults. Everyone knows it. They are God’s mistake – or maybe evolution’s mistake. Their lives are cheap. They are stereotypes. They have no deep inner life. It is all right to show their dead bodies in the news or their women half-naked in National Geographic. Government spending on them is a waste, of course. They are seen as a serious physical threat to Real People.
See also:
This is interesting. Someone’s humanity depends not only on physical appearance, but also the distance. The less you know about “them”, less real they are.
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This is great. 🙂 Everything I needed to know about racism I learned on Star Trek.
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Once again, another BRILLIANT post!
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Good job. And I like the Star Trek illustrations.
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Hahaha! So watch out if you’re wearing a red shirt and get
called to the transporter room for an away mission.
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@King
LOL…you could page Scotty as long as the Scotch didn’t get him 1st!
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Oh, bravo Abagond!!!! Cleverly done!
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* stands up and applauds *
Bravo, Abagond – EXCELLENT post, especially with the Star Trek visual aids…perfect! 😎
On a side note, I recall much ado being made of ‘the first interracial television kiss (WM/BW)’ being between Kirk and Uhura. When I saw the episode itself, it didn’t look to me like they were kissing at all! The camera angle was hideous, and it looked like William Shatner’s tightly-compressed mouth was hovering over Nichelle Nichols’s face – I didn’t see any kiss being exchanged.
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This is brilliant satire, Abagond.
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Damn Abagond, you’ve been on a roll lately! These posts have been stellar! (No Star Trek pun intended)
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In Spock’s voice “Fascinating.” I’m sorry; I couldn’t resist lol, but on the real, you hit the nail on the head.
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The Star Trek visuals=Awesome!
I concur with the other posters so far–well done!
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Unfortunately, this is all too true. I have to agree with everyone else and say great Star Trek pictures. As a kid I used to watch them in syndication during summer breaks.
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Sepultura 13:
You’re right. That was no kiss. I mean, why even bother? If I recall, weren’t they being controlled by an alien force and basically were made to “kiss” each other? I don’t really remember the episode.
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I love the Star Trek images. Lol!
The Klingon were portrayed with dark skin and I never could figure out why.
And, I always thought the Vulcans were very stereotypically Asian.
Oddly enough, William Shatney is Jewish, but not as devout or stereotypical-looking as Leonard Nimoy (Spock).
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Abagond, your train of thought never fails to amaze me. To think of these things.
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I feel you should have referenced the Star Trek: TOS episode Let This Be Your Last Battlefield. It’s likely the most anti-racism episode ever.
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great post abagond,
# 3 , go to 7:53 if you want to see number 3…
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sh*t…you know what I’VE even been put into the # 3 category…as a middle class black in america…i’ve been put into that category before
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It’s wonderful that we have someone who is all knowing to tell us what we believe and think — well done.
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Yes, anytime someone gives you an analysis of something, what they are really saying is that they are omniscient.
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@abagond: well done. funny.
About Kirk and Uhuru, as a kid I took it for granted that they had somekind of hanky panky going on and waited and waited if we ever will see it.
In our kids mind their thing was so hot that it could not be shown on tv 😀 We were sure of it, couple my friends and I. 😀
But we also found it confusing that Spock and Kirk looked more like a couple than buddies sometimes 😀
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Didn’t Abagond say “as best as I can understand it”? How does anyone equate that with “all knowing”.
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Perhaps this is why the ‘Despised Other’ is so despised…
http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2009/06/white-teacher-speaks-out-what-is-it.html
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BD:
Thanks for the link. If you have any more like that, I would love to know them.
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I wrote “as best as I can understand it” against the Telepathy Defence: the idea that I cannot know anything about white people because I cannot read minds.
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Did BD really provide a link to that old Inner City (but called “Black”, since we’re a monolith after all) Education article. The one that’s filled with comments from shortsighted/stupid/racist whites exhibiting nothing but confirmation bias. Whites that were cotinuously using the authors words to further their racist agendas and reinforce their already cemented opinions? (Even though he kept pleading for them not to.)
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hello abagond, how are you? its peanut…
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There is a very good article written by an immigrant Chinese-American, talking about the bullying suffered by him at the hands of blacks while going to an inner city school, but I can’t find it. When I do, I’ll send it to you, though I think it was published by the Manhattan Institute.
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So should bullying always be a way to signify that a race is “bad”? Or is it only when blacks do it? Despite the fact that bullying is, and has always been, a national problem in schools of all ethnic makeups. Now that I think about it, it seems to only be “national problem” now that it’s finally being reported on in predominately white ones, due to white students these days finally cracking and commiting suicide over it…
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I dont get it. White people nv bully Asians in school? Lol I’ve seen whites make fun of Asians right in front of my face, on numerous occasions! What am I supposed to infer from that BD? Whites should be despised bc of those individuals?
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Hmmm. A blog post as confirmation of the “real” reason the Despised Other is so… despised.
Sounds like rock solid evidence to me!
Not. Oy vey. And another crazy throws two roaches in the bucket, thinking they’re cents.
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BD,
What are you trying to prove? I mean we already know you’re a racist, but what you trying to prove coming here?
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Isn’t it funny that a day of religious observation (for some) brings out the hate-filled trolls?
Fascinating…
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“Did BD really provide a link to that old Inner City (but called “Black”, since we’re a monolith after all) Education article.”
Was news to me. I couldn’t read the whole thing but you get the point in the first few paragraphs. I actually went to an inner city elementary school for a few years. It was in a smaller community (Akron, Ohio) Not like Detroit or anything but still. The students were almost all black and so was the principal and most of the teachers. I think it’s boarded up now or used for something else. Anyway, the students weren’t anything like what was described in the article. I was bullied but it was by the 1 OTHER white kid in my grade. The general behavior was no different than at the mostly white elementary school I attended.
Although the curriculum at the inner city school was quite a bit behind so when I switched to the suburban school I had a lot of catching up to do.
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More BS from you Abagond.
You’re still living in 1965. Most whites today (and the number increases steadily all the time) don’t despise black people because they look different etc. If whites despise blacks it’s because black people act differently – in a negative way – and go out of their way to be obstinate in polite society.
The way I see it, white people really, really want to like black people. But a critical mass of blacks make it very difficult to do so.
I’m very conscious of race, and I try to not let my biases get in the way of treating all human beings the same. And I do come across a lot of good and decent black people who are just trying to live their lives. But, damn, the ones who confirm my biases are *not* few and far between.
Quick story: I’ve worked at a restaurant for 6 years now. The cops have never been called for any reason – no fights or anything – until the other night (4/20) when a black woman caused a ruckus and started banging on the table and cussing at other patrons for no reason. Now, the woman who was with her was embarrassed and not causing a scene, but she was acting “normal” – which is to say, how you are expected to act when out in public.
White people see these incidents all the time; what do you expect us to think about blacks?
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Eyeroll
It’s called confirmation bias. If you actually knew any black people you wouldn’t be so hopelessly under it’s spell.
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@Brothawolf.
I am explaining to Abagond why so many people don’t like you. It is because of your behavior, to whites, to Asians, to actual Africans, to everyone. Publicly, no one will say this, and because they don’t (due to fear), many of you solidify your erroneous beliefs about racism causing all of your woes. I have never seen any recognition on the part of any African-American of just how thoroughly devastating your behaviors are upon, well, everyone. The suffering you cause while bellowing your own makes the vast majority of all non-blacks dilike you intensely. Quietly, but intensely. America was once a place where the line was between white and non-white. Now, it is a place where the line is between black and non-black. I just want you to see that.
@Zek,
You are a complete ideological fraud, you worship nothing so much as your own intelligence, and what a penurious god it is.
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@ Abagond
BD is beginning to sound very much like a sock puppet for another recent poster.
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Jason Burns,
please. you don’t have to look hard to see that blacks act like fools, commit more crimes, are obstinate in public, and wear giant chips on their shoulders at much higher rates than any other race of people.
the lady i mentioned above stormed out of my restaurant saying “fuck them, i’m a *black* woman.” when do you ever hear any other race of people talking like that or acting like that?
Again, can you fault white people for holding these prejudiced beliefs? I mean, you may be willing to just ignore all of this, but you’re obviously hell-bent on subjugating yourself to the black community for whatever reason.
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Will this madness end? At first, it was humorous, but now, BD and Piggy are torturing rationality.
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Piggy:
First of all, it’s obviously not all, Blacks, but some. Just like all White people don’t live in trailer parks and drink Coors beer.
Secondly, yes, crime, dysfunction, and unrest, it is a larger problem in the Black community than in many others. But it is a cumulative effect of much that has happened historically. That doesn’t EXCUSE bad behavior, when it happens, but it does help to explain where some of it comes from.
But the problem with your particular attitude is that you are trying to employ a kind of racial collective responsibility. If one Black person (or 100) act badly in a restaurant then we are aLL responsible for it, or that we can collectively control other individuals who look like us. That does not make sense.
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@ King
To add on to your last comment. White people weren’t engaged in racial collective responsibility “back when white people were racist”, and engaged in overt violence towards others. So it’s kind of stupid and incredibly hypocritical for them to expect others to engage in such a thing today.
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@ Franklin
I Know! It’s the zenith of stupidity. How are we supposed to collectively control black criminals and sociopaths?
Are they able to collectively control White criminals and sociopaths?
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@Peanut
LMFAO @ #3!!!
@Abagond This post was spot on!
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@ BD
That teacher’s blog is old news to everybody who went to school 30-40 years ago in Western Europe. 99% white schools, that is.
Just replace black with broke or unemployed and white with well-off or at least “not broke”.
Even nowadays, in certain parts of the UK you can replace black with chav and white with “ponce” or snob. Once again, in a predominantly white school.
Different colour, same behaviour.
It’s usually the non-white kids (African, Caribbean, Asian-Indian, all sorts of mixtures) in those environments who are the most disciplined and the most bullied.
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@ G.L. Piggy:
If I am still living in 1965 then so are you, unfortunately. Right here in 2011 you proceeded to do just what I said in the post: to judge black people based on the worst among them.
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@ piggy: “The way I see it, white people really, really want to like black people. But a critical mass of blacks make it very difficult to do so.”
Thanks for that funny comment. Saved my easter. Been laughing out loud for a while! 😀
Specially that “critical mass” 😀
From which episode of South Park this is?? Haven’t seen it yet.
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“but you’re obviously hell-bent on subjugating yourself to the black community for whatever reason.”
That was quite a leap. I know you guys get frustrated by your own inability to justify your racist views through half-baked logical fallacies. But still, no reason to resort to get personal.
Actually, the fact that you think subjugation is even a factor reveals a deep seated fear on your part. I think you’re probably afraid of your own shadow.
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@Zek,
You are a complete ideological fraud, you worship nothing so much as your own intelligence, and what a penurious god it is.
Hahaha, you’re the racist citing a blog post as evidence of why Black people are/should be despised? BD please… Tricks are for kids!
Why don’t you do yourself (and all of us a favor). Go back to the children’s table, read a few books, learn a few things, get some experience with the issues AND THEN come back to see if you can comment with the grownups ; )
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If whites despise blacks it’s because black people act differently – in a negative way – and go out of their way to be obstinate in polite society.
Up yours! I enjoy being obnoxious in hypocritical, I mean polite society! The reactions are priceless! Hahahahaha!!!
More BS from you Abagond.
You put the bull in bullsh*t mister!
The way I see it, white people really, really want to like black people. But a critical mass of blacks make it very difficult to do so.
Boo f**cking hoo, please oh please love me white folks!
But, damn, the ones who confirm my biases are *not* few and far between.
I hear you. I experience the same thing with many of the racist whites I come across.
Quick Story:
For the past five years or so, I have been receiving love letters from an anonymous white person threatening to kill, dismember me, hide my body so it won’t be found, and burn my house down with my family in it, to name but a few things. The police are unable to find the culprit because the other whites who know about this are protecting this person. What’s scary is not so much the clown writing these letters, but the people who are protecting them. Seeing these incidents for the past five years, how do you expect me to think about whites? To me this is more insidious than some woman carrying on in a restaurant or anywhere else for that matter.
@Zek,
You are a complete ideological fraud, you worship nothing so much as your own intelligence, and what a penurious god it is.
He’s got it, so why not flaunt it? Nothing destitute about it. I will say this though not only are you a racist, but an anti-Semite making veiled references to Zek’s intelligence as monetary, a common stereotypes about Jews, penurious indeed.
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@Zek,
You always tell people to go read books, or try to belittle them, because your arguments are so fraudulent. Of all commentators here you above all others rely on ad hominem attacks, arguments to authority, etc. Unamusement Park completely destroyed your arguments. You have a little amen corner here which praises you no matter what you write, but the truth is there to see. You belittle a ‘blog post’, but that a very honest account of one teacher’s experience. Definitive? No. Indicative? Yes.
@Herneith,
Yes,being rude to hardworking wait staff is really sticking it to polite society! Not giving a tip and complaining incessantly is the best way to stick it to the man. Abagond did a post on the ‘white heart’. Well, behold, the black mind.
Your story is a total fabrication, that of delusional mind.
Yo also don’t know the meaning of the word ‘penurious’. And no, he doesn’t ‘got it’.
Thanks for confirming all my stereotypes.
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@BD: Grow up, son. 😀
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Sam, regardless of the inanity of 99% of your written mumblings, please, please, for stylistic purposes alone, stop using emoticons in every post. It makes you look sound like a teenager. Now, I know your musings are as fraught with nonsensical hyperbole as the average commentator here, but even this one adjustment will make you seem just a little less of a fool. Don’t stay in the sauna too long.
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Thanks for confirming all my stereotypes.
No, thank you for confirming my stereotypes of insidiously racist white folk such as yourself. Answer me this, why do you feel a compulsion to come to this blog and post? Does it make you feel superior to others? You get to argue on the internet with black folks and write things for which you would not have the gall to say to black folk in real life? It doesn't take much to get you going. In your racist delusional mind you believe everything you read if it 'confirms your stereotypes'. I don't have to do anything. As for the word penurious, I am quite conversant with its' definition and various usage. Perhaps it is you who don't know what it means and in what context it can be used. If anyone is delusional and prone to mumblings, it is you. Here's a colloquialism for you; Blow it out your hole!
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I upset your poorly crafted narrative, and this makes you angry. I wouldn’t say these things in public because, due to your poor impulse control, you would probably try to kill me. The only definition of ‘penurious’ that makes any sense with the noun which it describes is ‘extremely poor’, just like the quality of your thought.
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It keeps getting worse and worse, and I think this must be said.
I agree with Herneith; I doubt BD and Piggy would dare say these things to blacks directly in their faces. I think they prefer the internet to hide behind screen to dish their toxic nonsense.
BD, Piggy, and any other like-minded stooges. The bottom line is that this blog is against EVERYTHING you stand for, and coming here is futile. It’s like willingly doing a swan dive into the lion’s den.
Here’s a thought, why don’t you go over to Stormfront, Amren, or Chimpout, and get your racist fanatic fun over there, and leave well enough alone. It’s clear you LOVE black people when we act like negative stereotypes, but you hate us when we don’t entertain your racism. To me that’s evident of a twisted mind and soul.
Seriously, I don’t know why we put up with this. Maybe for entertainment, but this is seriously getting beyond sad. Your arguments hold no weight, hold logical coherence, and it’s obvious you don’t want to learn jack sh*t from us, nor do you see anything wrong with it. Honestly, I’m thinking you come here to have fun with us derailing important topics, and we entertain you with responses.
I don’t know about ya’ll, but I’m done dealing with BD, Piggy, Unamused, and whoever else. Since these people don’t take this blog seriously and they had plenty of time to behave, it’s time to censor them. I’m no longer amused by their narrow mindedness.
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Lmao off @ all the idiots out there who make a second career off of their racism online!
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Haha… is BD still here?
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I’ve noticed something that the racism rationalizers have in common. From a WP’s perspective, all the rhetoric is designed to engage our negative emotions. Fear of the unknown other. Fear that the other is going to take over. Fear that the other is going to attack us and get us if we let our guard down. That, and our emotional response to unfairness. The old “they get to do blank, but if we do it it’s wrong! That’s not fair!” I think most people unfortunately will succumb to that gut reaction because it feels right. Stuff like “how come they get to demand multiculturalism in America, but we’re supposed to get the hell out of Africa. ” Makes sense and sounds unjust if, 1. Your white 2. You have no understanding of the history of colonialism.
Anyway, it’s always this really shallow appeal to basic human emotions that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. What bothers me so much is that no one want’s to scrutinize it, they just accept it. And then they take this half baked concept of reality and run,run,run without ever doing a background check on what they’ve been fed.
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Jason,
Exactly, which begs to ask the question why would anyone give these jokers a chance to speak if all they want to do is start drama?
The way I see it is European imperialism and colonialism made life hell for Africans and African descendants for centuries, but any plea for them to, for example, demand equal rights or rebuild themselves sends off a red flag because they fear a “possible retaliation” for years of oppression and destruction. Racists want blacks to stay in their place, suffer, or (with some extremists) simply die off the face of the earth. In other words it’s okay to be unfair to blacks, but it’s never okay to be unfair to whites.
*SMH*
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@ BD
“America was once a place where the line was between white and non-white. Now, it is a place where the line is between black and non-black. I just want you to see that.”
BD, I’m curious. Why do you “want” us “to see that”? What is motivating this in you from your perspective?
@ G.L. Piggy
“Again, can you fault white people for holding these prejudiced beliefs?”
So are you saying Whites should not be faulted for prejudging? Whites want exemption from this too?
We all prejudge people from time to time because it’s quick and easy but most people generally understand that it is not morally the right way to deal with people and that we should try view individuals as they come based on their individual actions. But you believe Whites in particular should not be faulted for prejudging? Why? Why are Whites so special to receive such a generous moral exemption? If that’s not the height of a privileged mentality, I don’t know what is.
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I bet BD would poop into his pants, or skirt, if he knew that according to his DNA he is fundamentally african, just like all of us.
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I’m sure we’re all familiar with the fact that racism is something which must be taught, yes?
What’s interesting about GL Piggy is that he (apparently) USED to be much more liberal about these things. However, working a crap job, and associating with people from Roissy’s and other entry-level White racist blogs led to a reformation of his thinking until he resembled less of an accidental bigot and more of a hardened racist.
And I co-sign with the other commenters who point out that none of these d-bags would dare say any of this ish in public. Gorbachev, unamused, chuck, randy, all of them. And why? Because deep down they’re ashamed of their beliefs and afraid of how people would react. For Gorbachev I know it’s to keep his liberal media job (an ironic contrast to his conservative reactionary pseudoscientific ideology).
And the really funny thing is is that I’ve MET real racists, real anti-Semites. The kind of people who attack The Other, commit hate-crimes, talking about stringing up bodies or making them bite the curb. I’ve gotten my a$$ handed to me a time or two from neo-N@zis, seen my synagogue vandalized with sw@stikas, been called all manner of slurs, in addition to the other subtle and less openly violent forms of bigotry.
So when I hear this BS from these guys, I can’t help but laugh because to me they’re a bunch of babies compared to what I’ve seen. I almost wish one of them would step to and, if they’re feeling froggy, jump! I’d be glad of the sport to relieve the tedium of another day at work.
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zek:
Life experiences have altered my thinking. Working a crap job where black people take advantage of having the upper hand on a white person is part of that. Roissy and the people at his blog had little to do with this shift in thinking.
Most of my attitude now stems from my belief that “the low-hanging fruit” that is blaming white racism has already been plucked. MLK and Malcolm X et al handled that. IOW, STFU already about being “the other” or whatever terms are used around here. If the black community is to improve going forward, it’s going to have to deal with it’s own internal problems and/or realize that they are being used by the Democrat Party as political pawns. I’m a big believer in the notion that a well-meaning government has harmed the black community since Great Society days.
If it were possible to sit down and have a rational conversation with someone about race, then sure I would say it. But I’m not going to walk up to a black person or even a white person and say these things. But then again I don’t just walk up to people and start talking about stuff a propos of nothing. I have black family members (two aunts and a cousin). If the topic came up I’d be hesitant to say some of the things I say online, but ultimately, I don’t think I’d pull any punches. I’d probably soften the delivery, of course.
But to your overall point, it would be difficult to have these conversations with black people in public. I understand why black people wouldn’t be sympathetic to my arguments, but their own biases don’t necessarily mean that I’m wrong. Blacks, and whites for that matter, have been conditioned to freak the fuck out if they hear black people put in a negative light. It’s nearly impossible to have a rational discussion on these topics.
I mean, it would be about like having a discussion with Women’s Studies major about Planned Parenthood or something. They’d start screaming and yelling and the argument would cross the rubicon into non-rational discourse.
So I keep it mostly online where you and people like Abagond and Obsidian actually get a look into the mind of a person like me who you call a racist. If you cared to look beyond your catch-all term of derision, you’d see that I have very valid points to make that stem from patterns of social interaction with the black underclass (a large percentage of the black community in general). But it’s easier for you to see me and the others as “racists” or “d-bags” – using those vague terms without definitions which makes for convenient argumentation.
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zek:
This is such a ridiculous statement. If we’re amateurs compared to those guys, why are you even mentioning us in the same breath? Are you upset that we aren’t the same type of ignorant, reactionary racist that you’ve encountered? I’m sure it would be easier for you to believe that me, Gorby, unamused, randy et al are capable of such acts, but I’m not and I’m sure that none of those other guys are either. Do you think that the people who paint swastikas or hang nooses actually even think about where their belief system and their ideas about race came from? Most likely, they are knee-jerk bigots who’ve inherited their thinking from their parents or their friends. They can’t see past square 1.
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“you’d see that I have very valid points to make that stem from patterns of social interaction with the black underclass ”
Except your “points” are just: I saw this black person do X this one time, so that means blacks are X.
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GL Piggy,
They can’t see past square 1.
Pot. Kettle.
Game set match.
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Jason Burns:
“Except your “points” are just: I saw this black person do X this one time, so that means blacks are X.”
Yeah, I wish it was just one time that I’ve seen a certain negative side of black people. The question I want to ask you is how do all of the posts and testimonies of white people on these various blogs sit with you? Do you think that they’re all racists who are just seeing the world through bigoted glasses, or do you ever grant that they may actually be observing noticable patterns of behavior among black people?
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zek being lame as always. good comeback squirrel. go back and write another fawning love post to your girlfriend in which you for some reason feel the need to justify your relationship.
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G.L. Piggy said:
That is an ad hominem argument, but I think there is some truth to it. After all, the meanest attacks on black men on this blog have come not from whites but from black women, most of whom, it turned out, were going with white men.
But the trouble is, most White Americans have a self-interest in seeing blacks a certain way too. Whites, in part because of their history and their unjust position in society, have a need to see blacks in the worst light possible, to make them into the despised other. That is why they find blacks who rape, murder or who act in ill-mannered ways in restaurants so telling – in spite of the fact that most blacks are nothing like that! That is why you are not the only one who notices this stuff – because most whites (and some blacks) have a need to notice it too.
I mean, it would be as easy as pie for me to cut and paste from Stormfront as “proof” of how most whites are deep down and call it a day. Would that be fair? Of course not. But for the very same reason neither is your Black Restaurant Lady.
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@piggy: “If the black community is to improve going forward, it’s going to have to deal with it’s own internal problems and/or realize that they are being used by the Democrat Party as political pawns. I’m a big believer in the notion that a well-meaning government has harmed the black community since Great Society days.”
A haa, it is again the mythical Left lurking behind of everything 😀 They did it for the blacks too, spoiling them with all kinds of benefits in 1960’s onwards, right?
If only things would have remained like they were before civil rights movement and black panthers and the Big Goverment (which somehow was responsible for those movements), the blacks would be sooooooo happy in USA right now, wouldn’t they?
Very funny, very funny! 😀
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I don’t need to sit in front of a computer to gather information about “the behavior” of black people, especially from other WP. I live in Cleveland, Ohio. Quite a large percentage of the people I interact with on a daily basis are black. I grew up around black people from all walks of life, so I don’t need anyone to tell me what “they” are like.
You see, I know stereotypes are bullshit. Not because i’m “all liberal”, or because i’ve been brainwashed by “politically correct ideology” but because I’ve just been surprised too many times to give them any credence. These patterns of behavior that you think you have observed are useless my friend. You are simply confirming your own preconceived notions because it makes you feel better to do so. You’re afraid, and you don’t have the courage or the character to really learn anything about the people you feel justified in despising.
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what mythical left, Sam? the Left isn’t a myth; they unabashedly present themselves in the halls of Congress, in the media, in various quasi-government agencies, and college campuses.
it’s the attitude that “we have to help them” and at the same time can’t criticize them individually (although we can incarcerate them individually). also, we set unrealistic goals for ourselves as a society.
for reference, click through my handle to my blog and read the latest research from the Heritage Foundation which dispels the myth of incongruent education funding for blacks. blacks get more education funding but do a lot less with it. the cause of this is either innate differences in intellectual ability or a deeply-flawed culture that has a lot of things backwards. even Hispanics score higher on reading literacy tests than black students, and many Hispanics don’t speak English as a first language or have parents who don’t speak English at all. Yet blacks are doing worse than them and, if we considered black students a nation all of their own, would perform next to *worst* on reading literacy compared to other industrialized nations.
no matter how you look at it, the gov’t keeping their foot on the pedal of institutional racism as the bogeyman and therefore continuing their funding for ineffective outcomes a.) wastes money and b.) gives blacks and liberals more fodder when those gaps aren’t closed.
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sam said: “A haa, it is again the mythical Left lurking behind of everything 😀 They did it for the blacks too, spoiling them with all kinds of benefits in 1960′s onwards, right?”
There is evidence to support the claim that welfare benefits increased the illegitimacy rates.
See:
“Children as Income Producing Assets:
The Case of Teen Illegitimacy and Government Transfers”
George R.G. Clarke and Robert P. Strauss
Click to access illeg97e.pdf
and
“AFDC Payments and Illegitimacy Ratios”
by Steven B. Caudill, Franklin G. Mixon
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0254/is_3_59/ai_65348065/?tag=mantle_skin;content
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@ Randy & GL:
Thank you for your examples of what I said in the post:
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read the latest research from the Heritage Foundation
The Heritage Foundation is a for-profit conservative think tank that lobbies in Washington. Hardly an unbiased source. Maybe this little piggy needs a new ideology?
Also for the record, googling your position and then posting the first thing you see that vaguely supports your position is not citing evidence, nor is it credible. (I’m looking at you Randy… I noticed you couldn’t even get the original source for one of your citations. And the other one works at World Bank, which is a NOTORIOUS instrument of economic hegemony that has been oppressing third-world countries for years! Even Stiglitz can’t stand ’em.)
And again, despite their attempts a faux-scholarship, the majority of evidence (legitimate evidence: methodologically sound, scientifically conducted, peer-reviewed prior to publication, etc) disagrees with them every time. Unfortunately, they refuse to look at any of it. Which is how come we’re still seeing the copy+paste game of random studies collected from google.
Why? Just no skill.
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Abagond:
You’re suggesting that the “waste” of this particular implementation of government spending is due to the nature of the recipient.
The articles I posted make no such claim.
Rather, the implication is that the structure of these programs incentivized socially pathological behaviors and practices.
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zek:
If you have a factual rebuttal, post it.
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zek:
I’ve never understood this argument. Of course they’re conservative/libertarian. Which is why I read their work. If your point is that my citing a conservative think tank will do little to sway your thinking, then I accept that argument. But it doesn’t detract from the point they make.
Says the guy who is still quoting a citing Stephen Jay Gould.
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GL Piggy,
Stephen Jay Gould is peer-reviewed, and a preeminent scientist who’s work is part of mainstream, empirically proven data. Compared to Rushton or Lynn, who aren’t any of those things, among several other problems with their work.
Also, the fact that the Heritage Foundation lobbies and is for-profit renders their research less objective because they’re attempting to justify their agenda instead of pursuing actual science.
Again, just no skill.
Randy,
The factual rebuttal was made about ten topics ago, when you first started preaching the gospel of naive racism. And I’ll say again what I said then: please go read a book on the subject. Your ignorance is astronomical, but your willingness to remain so is far worse.
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zek said:
I do not recall any factual discussion disproving a causative link between welfare and legitimacy rates. “Read a book” seems like a weak retort. Surely there must be a few relevant studies available online to support your position.
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@randy & piggy: I really do not know what to say to you. You guys are so lost and so ignorant that you believe those rightwing puppet masters who dance you around like pawns in the chess board.
Without that so-called Big Goverment your grandparents would have been down in tubes, you guys would have lost WW2, would have never recovered from the Great Depression etcetcetc.
Actually, every time there has been “No more taxes” goverment in US, usually republican, it has managed to destroy your economy in record numbers. Geore W. Buish and his ilk, who stole your future when they stole the funds of your nation, are the prime example how to destroy a great country with the same principles and ideas that you kids advocate here. Your national economy is in tatters because they and their big banker friends stole all your money. And that is just for starters.
Their spending on military budgets have been astronomical and more than that, a whole lot of that money has been directed to “civilian contractors” who just happened to be their buddies. The post 911 laws, patriot acts and such, are superior examples how a really big goverment behaves when it wants to control its people.
When CIA, NSA and others were supposed to watch out for terrorists, they actually spied more americans than foreigners. They spent more time and money spying on you than talebans or mujahedins or what ever. That is right wing republican really BIG goverment for you guys.
Every time USA has been the absolute top dog in the world, there has been progressive taxation, the rich have been paying more, and the goverment has been running the economy tightly. Check the taxation history of your country. You guys did not know that once upon a time you had almost free health care, free and the best in the world school system etc. Those were all stolen from you by the rich rightwing guys whose ideas you kids now follow.
They have treated you like turds and you boys are cheering for them. I will never understand that kind of idiocy. But then again, I am just an european with some education and critical thinking.
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Like I said, there is nothing to say to Piggy, Randy, and the like. They’ve proven over and over and over again that they don’t wish to learn or think let alone change. Why bother arguing with someone who is incapable of even considering your argument, and even if you present proof or evidence, they will still say that you haven’t brought any that’s credible. Don’t forget that they prefer to listen to anyone that makes them feel better or superior whether it’s HBDs or right-wingers.
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Here’s another scientific peer-reviewed fact – Rushton, Lynn et al are quacks. They are nothing but number crunchers whose only “scientific”, so they think, leg to stand on are statistics. Numbers. That’s all they have. Plus they don’t even know where those numbers they are dabbling with are coming from.
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Also, it doesn’t mean that you’re throwing in the towel, but sometimes you have to know that you’ll have a better chance at penetrating a hole through 12 feet of solid steel with a wet sponge than getting through to these people.
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Randy,
I do not recall any factual discussion disproving a causative link between welfare and legitimacy rates.
There are literal libraries filled with the things you do not recall. Which is why I keep admonishing you to go to there and learn something. That you do not isn’t really my burden to supplant with knowledge that’s already been provided via this blog.
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Definitely. It’s not an “I surrender” attitude, by any means…
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“sometimes you have to know that you’ll have a better chance at penetrating a hole through 12 feet of solid steel with a wet sponge than getting through to these people.”
When you argue against a damaging ideology, you are not arguing strictly for the sake of your opponent. You are arguing for them.
http://www4.clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=https://abagond.wordpress.com/
You are selling “sense” in the global marketplace of ideas.
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sam,
I’ve not actually argued against social safety nets. I am saying that a particular set of programs appears to have contributed to social pathologies such as government dependency and an epidemic of out-of-wedlock births among black Americans.
brothawolf said:
As far as I can tell, no one has even attempted to prove that a link does not exist between Great Society initiated welfare programs and out-of-wedlock births. I would invite you to be the first to do so.
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zek said:
Another comment, another dodge. If there is a library of evidence on this blog which refutes my claim about a link between welfare and social pathologies such as out-of-wedlock births, then surely it should only take you a matter of seconds to copy/paste something.
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“Great Society initiated welfare programs and out-of-wedlock births.”
This is probably true, to some degree. However, I believe that it was under the watch of a liberal President, in 1995, that Welfare was reformed to try and correct for some of the abuses.
http://www.issues2000.org/celeb/Bill_Clinton_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
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“When you argue against a damaging ideology, you are not arguing strictly for the sake of your opponent. You are arguing for them.”
True, but still, some people can’t be helped. All you can do is continue through the web of ignorance.
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Randy,
I already HAVE copied and pasted evidence, over and over again. I’m not dodging, I’m saving myself a wasted effort giving you a source (or sources) that you not only won’t read, you won’t even consider in the context of the argument.
But it’s more than copying and pasting sources. Googling your argument and linking whatever pops up IS NOT scholarship. It’s not credible research, nor is it even research. It’s called being lazy and refusing to actually engage the argument, hiding behind sources you barely read on subjects you barely understand.
The only one who’s dodging anything is you Randy. And until you step up like a man to the subject with an honest discussion, you’ll just be another racist intellectual coward among the throngs which spam the internet.
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zek,
For someone who styles himself an academic, your propensity for name calling is rather unbecoming. Perhaps it’s a maturity issue.
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They have treated you like turds and you boys are cheering for them. I will never understand that kind of idiocy. But then again, I am just an european with some education and critical thinking.
Perhaps people like Randy, BD, and Piggy need Depends. Seriously though, It appears that these so-called conservatives are actually voting against middle-class interests which is bizarre.
When CIA, NSA and others were supposed to watch out for terrorists, they actually spied more americans than foreigners.
I wonder why all the conservatives, and those espousing smaller governments aren’t up in arms?
Here’s another scientific peer-reviewed fact – Rushton, Lynn et al are quacks.
Oh yes, I recall distinctly that episode where he paid a bunch of men fifty bucks to tell him how big their penises where and how far they could ejaculate at a shopping mall. So much for empirical evidence, eh? If I did that I would probably be charged with procuring. Good come on line though! I can see it now; “I am doing an empirical study about the relationship between aggression and penis size, for fifty bucks could you pull down your pants, let me measure it, and then masturbate as far as you can?” “It’s all in the name of science!” Sounds perverse doesn’t it?
I already HAVE copied and pasted evidence, over and over again.
Watch it, or you’ll end up like this:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCc6qjigsD-zZ2mjHkYIFVHFpCsgUCyTKggfdJ6ciOSVas6mqG
For someone who styles himself an academic, your propensity for name calling is rather unbecoming.
I enjoy name-calling, it’s entertaining! it’s no worse than the name calling meted out by others, myself included on this blog, in fact it’s tame! What would you do if someone really called you a name? Have a nervous breakdown?
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Abagond this is a very funny post! It was like Cracked.com with a social conscience (I just like the site, that’s not a plug).
“The Despised Other has some scholarly meaning that I do not fully understand,”
The concept of the “Other” was described in Edward Said’s Orientalism, the 1978 work which inspired a generation of postcolonial historians. I’m betting you know that, and you were just avoiding a long and unfunny explanation. Or maybe you’ve read Said and you’re just being honest when you say you don’t fully understand – I don’t either! I tried to write a grad paper on Said’s conceptual debt to Michel Foucault and wound up with my brain dripping out my ears.
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”their” women – so of course women of any race/group aren’t really part of the group, but more like possessions of the real group members, men. Not convinced all of the sexism in this was consciously ironically meant.
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I guess to white americans, Jewish-Americans, muslims (who dress and speak like white americans) and many super-Americanized well-to-do Asian-Americans would fall into category #2, as would most western and northern Europeans, Australians and New Zealanders, and well-to-do English-Speaking Asians (such as those living in Singapore). Poor Appalachian whites might also fall into that category. Famous, well-known “rented negro” blacks might fall into this category too as does Jacky Chan and Bruce Lee and Tiger Woods.
#3. Most Latin Americans fall in this category as do people from places like Eastern Europe and Japan and South Korea and Taiwan. Increasingly, people in China are placed in this category, both Han and non-Han (eg, Tibetans, Uyghurs).
#4. People in North Korea, Afghanistan, and any victim or perpetrator of genocide outside North America or western Europe (which includes much of Africa and the Brazilian Amazon). Also includes any non-white living in North American or western European ghettos, whether black, Latino, Arab or Asian (eg, Chinatowns).
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They were being bold with William Shatner’s character and Nichelle Nichols character sharing a kiss. He knew he couldn’t resist that fine black woman.
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Wow that was heartless. Wonder where you came from ? Who are you to judge ? Sad and sick people are given high status over other creatures but they fail to respect each other. You’re just lava spew from a volcano how about that author of nothing substantial or brilliant. Oh my a blogger! What a achievement !
Ha! Keep spreading your stinky point of view if you want the world worse. Moron. Like we aren’t all human. Knock knock on your skull
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Well done. Succinct and accurate. Our tribal nature almost dictates it. It is our great tragedy….Among others.
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Abagond, right on! However, I think they’re actually 5 types of people. The fifth being the people who don’t count as people and only matter as the property of the real people. I guess we can call that type “women”.
“We require hourly updates on their missing women,”
“all right to show their dead bodies in the news or their women half-naked in National”
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“How Liberalism and Racism Are Wed”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/how-liberalism-and-racism-are-wed/?_r=0
“Political vulnerability is intrinsic to any society, but the rhetoric of universal and equal protection conceals the systematic impulse to exclude certain populations at any given time. The groups who are vulnerable are subject to change, depending upon how threatening they are, and/or how useful it would be to those in power to discard them”
“They are deprived of protections because they are perceived as threats in some way, and so they become — explicitly or not so explicitly — subject to laws intended to constrain, dehumanize, criminalize them. It is a gradual process, but they are increasingly vilified, demonized, dehumanized, which then rationalizes the move to strip them of protections under the mantle of “legality.””
“At base, this is what the killing of Michael Brown, and the ensuing encounters between the police and protesters in Ferguson, Mo., have exposed: peace, safety, recognition of one’s humanity, law, order, rights will be doled out — or withheld — only in terms that allow those in authority, those with wealth, to remain comfortable…until we confront the repeated incidents of dehumanization as systematic, and not just a proliferation of accidental violations of humanity, we won’t be able to address or challenge the fundamental flaw of liberalism: the “compatibility” between the promise of universal protections for some groups, and violence for others.”
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Reblogged this on khushizn.
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With this current administration especially in regards to the immigration crisis. It’s pretty obvious who is the despised and unwanted.
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Children of migrants trying to cross the Mexican border and ending up in detention centers who are separated from their parents and housed in uninhabitable, having their human rights violated.
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Children separated from their parents and placed into detention centers in unsanitary and having their human rights violated.
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^^^^^^dilapidated, unsanitary conditions.
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The Despised Other: The young Salvadoran father and his baby daughter laying face down in the Rio Grande that drowned.
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@Mary:
They had a similar situation here where a Syrian child washed up on a beach. It made headlines. The result? They admitted 25,000 refugees from Syria in. A drop in the bucket but good optics politically.
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@Herneith: I remember that little one washed up on the beach and that broke my heart as well. A picture really does tell a thousand words.
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