There are still white people in America who try to defend or excuse slavery – almost 150 years after the slaves were freed. Instead of simply condemning it for the evil that it was, they say stuff like this:
- weak moral excuses:
- “Africans sold their own people as slaves.”
- “Africans are still selling slaves.”
- “Arab traders sold slaves too.”
- “Slavery goes back thousands of years.”
- “Most human societies have practised slavery.”
- “It was the times!”
- “The important thing to remember is that whites stopped slavery!”
- playing down its benefits to whites:
- “Slavery did not make economic sense.”
- “My family never owned slaves.”
- “That was Ancient History.”
- “Whites got to where they are by their own hard work.”
- playing up its benefits to blacks:
- “Blacks are better off in America than in Africa.”
- “Africans were savages.”
- getting people to shut up:
- “You are living in the past.”
- “Get over it!”
I did posts on some of these, but here are some general points to keep in mind:
- Slavery is just flat-out evil. Why excuse it?
- Africa is not a country – Africans were not “selling their own” but their enemies. As it was, most African societies did not sell slaves.
- Western slavery was worse than African slavery: it was based on race, it lasted for life and it was on a much bigger scale. Many were worked to death, like in Haiti and Barbados. Whites willingly sold their own children as slaves. This was not “what most human societies do”.
- You do not get credit for stopping what you should not have been doing in the first place.
- “Everyone does it” does not make it right. Besides, since when did White Americans regard Arabs or Africans as a moral example to follow?
- White Americans knew perfectly well it was wrong. Racism, in fact, grew out of their need to excuse their actions so they could hold onto their self-image as good people. That is why, to this day, their prejudice against blacks is so much stronger than against anyone else, even against foreigners, even against black foreigners.
- Of course slavery made economic sense. How else could it have lasted hundreds of years? In the late 1700s 80% of Britain’s overseas trade depended on slavery. It was one of the main ways White America got so rich so fast. To this day working-class whites are still wealthier on average than even middle-class blacks.
So why all the excuses?
First, because part of their sense of self worth is built on being white and how whites are better than everyone else, particularly blacks. A view that does not stand up to an honest look at their past.
Second, because, as Edward Ball put it in “Slaves in the Family” (1998):
To live with the advantages of white skin in America is to benefit from the old slave system.
Thus the need to deny any benefit. Thus the need to morally excuse what is supposedly Ancient History.
See also:
I think that the argument of “Everyone did it” is not meant as an excuse for slavery, but rather a mechanism to understand that moral superiority between populations generally doesn’t exist.
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“Slavery is just flat-out evil. Why excuse it?”
“So why all the excuses?”
You say it’s because whites think they are better than everyone else and they want to excuse the fact that they benefit from slavery.
I suppose that’s one way to look at it.
I’m sure you know that it’s human nature to attempt to defend oneself when one feels wrongly accused of something. The reason whites feel wrongly accused is because most whites don’t understand or accept that we have privilege.
I have this vivid memory of an incident that occurred when I was in the 7th grade. This would have been 91′ or 92′
Me and a couple friends of mine who were also white were walking back to class as recess was about to end. We were walking toward a group of black students (they were between us and the door) they all looked at us and took a few steps toward us and one of the black students said (in a threatening tone) “yall remember when yall used to keep us as slaves n’sh*t?”
We just kind of stood there like “uuhhhhhh” and then the bell rang and we all just went back inside.
I know they were just screwing with us but it did leave me with the impression that most black people probably associate modern living white people with slavery, not just dead white people. So I think the answer to your question Abagond is that we don’t want to be associated with something so negative. Nobody would. So we either make it seem like it wasn’t that bad or different from what other societies were doing or we try to distance ourselves by saying it was so long ago that it has nothing to do with those of us living today. Because coming from a POC talk of slavery isn’t just a detached history lesson, it’s an accusation.
Of course ,what’s missing here is an understanding of how whites continue to benefit from slavery. Those benefits are the reason it’s still an issue. If those benefits no longer existed, than slavery would truly be in the past.
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I hate it when white people defend the most blatantly racist shit from other whites in an attempt to avoid personal guilt. Why not remind yourself that YOU had nothing to do with it and keep it moving?
To be honest, I don’t see the point in someone identifying as white and defending a “white identity”. What does it mean to be white anyway? What purpose does it serve? The only reason why I see myself as Black(outside of phenotype & origin) is bc racism. If Black folks didn’t have social & economic issues to attend to I would see myself as solely an individual(I do this anyway, but I keep my black card in my back pocket 😉 )
Seeing yourself as a person 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then a race last is a privilege! Why wouldn’t you take advantage of it when you live in a society where you can afford to do so???
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Cynic,
Perhaps “white” and “black” began as completely arbitrary identities, but at this point there are group histories which seem to validate such classifications, at least to some baseline degree.
As for why someone might wish to identify themselves as part of such a group, I’d say the tendency for clannism/ tribalism is hardwired, and arises even in geographically isolated populations around the world.
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jas0nburns said: “Because coming from a POC talk of slavery isn’t just a detached history lesson, it’s an accusation.”
Sounds like you’re easily trolled. So long as guys like that know (or suspect) that they can create a reaction with such a line, they’re incentivized to continue that behavior.
At a broader level, the “guilty white” demographic, by being so easily and consistently trollable, encourages this on a mass scale which then crowds out more productive discussions on race.
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@Randy Garver
As for why someone might wish to identify themselves as part of such a group
I was asking about the ‘white identity’ specifically. Race is not the only group in the world. Why not stick with jock or emo? American or Russian? Democrat or Republican? What is the purpose of being white?
there are group histories which seem to validate such classifications, at least to some baseline degree.
**To the point that ppl will go around defending slavery, apartheid, or colonialism(I see this WAAAYYY too much on the internet) to justify their being?** Don’t get me wrong, I understand the basic reasons why someone would themselves as white(phenotype & origin), but why make it your 1st, 2nd, 3rd main identity?
I always say, “no matter what I am myself at the end of the day.” My ‘black’ identity is important to me out of necessity and even then I don’t let my race define me. Why the need to see yourself as white to that(*) extent?
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“but why make it your 1st, 2nd, 3rd main identity? ”
I don’t think many whites do that do you? We don’t tend to think about our race unless we find ourselves in a room full of non-whites.
“Sounds like you’re easily trolled.”
First off, saying it’s an accusation wasn’t right. maybe sometimes it is but more often it’s just perceived as an accusation.
also, I wasn’t talking about myself specifically. WP tend to get defensive when slavery is brought up. That defensive reaction is where everything on Abagond’s list of excuses comes from. It’s basically just a bunch of ways to say
1. “I didn’t do it.”
2. “even if I am responsible in some way, so what? lots of other groups have done similar things so it’s unfair to single me (or the group to which I belong) out”
I’m just describing common reactions.
“So long as guys like that know (or suspect) that they can create a reaction with such a line, they’re incentivized to continue that behavior.”
I don’t think that’s what it’s about. I’m sure Abagonds posts on slavery were not written in order to elicit a defensive response from WP.
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Cynic said: “I was asking about the ‘white identity’ specifically. Race is not the only group in the world. Why not stick with jock or emo? American or Russian? Democrat or Republican? What is the purpose of being white?”
I wondered the same thing, and asked some white nationalists. They answered that a common European identity was a natural pan-ethnic in-group, that European-americans had developed a particular “white american” culture over 4 centuries, and that modern race politics continues to enforce distinctions between “white” and “black”.
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@Randy Garver
I have always suspected that the only whites who identified too much with “whiteness” were racist/extremist(paranoid types). Your example has solidified my suspicions.
*I know some ppl don’t believe white nationalist/separatist necessarily equals racist. I don’t buy that…
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“were racist/extremist(paranoid types). Your example has solidified my suspicions.”
It seems like all racial SELF-identification is reactionary.
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Slavery still exist and not only psychologically. Before I didn’t thought like that but now I believe African people (and I mean every black folks around the world) is in war – this is just most of them don’t know that. African people have no friend and their most dangerous ennemy is western folks. france – it is now proved that this country is behind wars/genocides in Africa especially a country like Cote d’Ivoire- just showed it with the case of Cote d’Ivoire. The worst is most french folks has been justifying france bombing Cote d’Ivoire – they know 3000 persons were killed because of that-, helping rebels who committed atrocities and other crimes – for a while now-, french soldiers occupied the airport and the harbour -where they stole all the stored cocoa and coffee that will probably arrive in france (maybe USA)- ect… and they have been assisted by UN.
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Wow. You did it again, Abagond.
I hate it when whites tell me to get over slavery, that it happened in the past and it had nothing to do with what’s going on with the conditions blacks face.
Yet, some of those same whites who tell blacks to get over slavery are the same ones who celebrate the 4th of July and it’s glorified, whitewashed version of what happened that led up to that day. It’s like saying that slavery is not as important as the 4th, or that it was not that big a deal as we make it out to be.
Total BS.
Whiteness is a dysfunction that cripples not only blacks and other people of color, but also devoids whites from the virtues of truth, knowledge, and true altruism for the sake of living in a euphroia created by them for them. The sickness of whiteness causes whites to live in extreme denial, severe paranoia, and addicted to happiness and superiority even at the cost of other people’s humanity.
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Can you, though? When you’re attacked as a group, as whites are, the only way to effectively defend yourself is also as a group.
My personal preference is for the race to matter only for the manufacturers of cosmetic and hair products. Unfortunately, in today’s America, being “race-blind” is quickly becoming an unaffordable luxury for whites (even if most of them are slow to realize that).
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@ nonserviam
“When you’re attacked as a group, as whites are, the only way to effectively defend yourself is also as a group. ”
you just proved this comment by The Cynic….
“I have always suspected that the only whites who identified too much with “whiteness” were racist/extremist(paranoid types). Your example has solidified my suspicions.”
…correct.
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The fact that they did points towards material reality of the white race and incidental character of intra-white ethnic divisions.
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Abagond:
Native-Americans were slaves first, but, many of them died from diseases that were brought to the Americas by white europeans, and others were killed trying to free themselves from slavery. Our African sisters and brothers became “Plan B” for europe, and the rest is history. Abagond, I have more to say on the post in a few?
Tyrone
PS…Is the Africa Channel broadcast in New York/New Jersey, Abagond?
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@randy: “They answered that a common European identity was a natural pan-ethnic in-group”.
That is typical american WHITE illusion. There is no common European identity. Check your history books. WW1 and WW2 where essentially European civil wars fought mainly between european nations and people. Finns don’t like swedes or russians who do not like us either. French and britts are still in a state of bickering and namecallin few hundred years after 100 years war and some +200 years after Napoleon and Welligton met at Waterloo.
You may ask Mira how do the ethnic groups in former Yugoslavia see each other. And they are all white europeans. Few hunderd thousadn died over there in 1990’s.
Futher more there is no white american culture. It is also an illusion. Blue blood brahmins in Boston are bit different from the Southies. Culturally that is. Italians from Bensonhurst are a bit different from the amish of Pennsylvania. Cubans in Miami are a bit different from the cowhands in North Dakota. What white american culture? There is none.
There is american litterature, movies, arts, music etc. but they are all influenced by blacks too. Your constitution was inspired from the code of the Six Nations, native americans, injuns for you guys. What pan-european white american culture?
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Hang on sam, apart from the so-called “natural” “racial” bonds, botox, genetically modified veggies and silicone breasts are natural too, aren’t they? Or are they?
Perhaps slavery is just “natural”. Perhaps cruelty for no utter reason is just “natural”. Perhaps greed and relentless egoism are just “natural”.
hmm, I’m a bit worried now because if that was true, myself and all people I interact with must be utterly synthetic.
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Abagond:
Slavery didn’t die in 1964 and 1965 with the passage of “The Civil Rights Bill & The Voting Rights Act.” A lot of black people assume that we’re free, but they’re mistaken. Physical slavery is easy to break, mental slavery is hard to kill. As blackmen, we see the results of being kidnapped from home, losing our freedom, and witnessing our women being sexually violated by whitemen is just as fresh in the physche of blackmen today as it was 500+ years ago. Other blackmen may forgive and forget what took place, but I’m not that brotha. I’m not cuttin’ whitemen any slack, regardless of national origin(European,Middle-Eastern,North-American,Latin-American). I’ve studied and observed white culture for many years, and I can see thru the bulls**t, Aquarius Vision! All blackmen are not deaf, dumb, and blind. All blackmen are not ass-kissers who want to be liked by others. All blackmen are not fooled by “The White Girl Bait & Switch” that white media shoves down our throat on a daily basis……Whitey wants us to chase his woman, whom he doesn’t love and desire, so he can get his hands on our blackwomen like many of his forefathers did during slavery and colonialism. Ass—U—Me is deadly venom. Whites assume a lot as it relates to black people, which is why they need to stop doing it. Tyrone, will never be a mystery to anyone. I don’t make the simple complex, and my black brothers should do the same. Fear God, Protect Life & Liberty, Love Family, Love Blackwomen Unconditionally, and Always Speak Honestly whether others like it or not!!!
Tyrone
Free Aquarius
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Abagond
I Gotta Bounce
Peace
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“Western slavery was worse than African slavery: it was based on race, it lasted for life.”
Indeed. The slavery in various countries in Africa was also different in that a slave’s child was not born a slave himself. He stood a chance at having a normal life from birth. Slaves who stayed with specific families for long enough sometimes became part of the family. Once the slave was released from his servitude, he could even marry a member of the family he once served. In other words they kept their humanity. They were not seen as animals born to labor.
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@Jas0nburns
I don’t think many whites do that do you?
Naw I just thought it was the fringe types. I was under the impression that the average white American sees whites as the prototype human, but I since I’m not white I can’t be sure. I think when ordinary whites make these arguments it’s probably just defensive. I mean even if their identification is weak, they are still white…
@Nonserviam
Ok…
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Ppl may not like me for saying this, but… whatever.
I’m over slavery and I don’t think modern white Americans should feel any shame for it. I know that if I was white, I personally wouldn’t give a f*ck about slavery. I mean don’t confuse me, it was an absolutely evil institution and it has had lasting effects. Basically every Black person has directly or indirectly been hindered by it, while every white has directly or indirectly benefited from it. Still, I mean, what do we want whites to do about it? They can’t change the past and to me their isn’t anything they can do to pay for what white folks did back then. I don’t support reparations for slavery or at least in monetary form(I would consider free job training for blk HSers or making blk businesses easier to start up).
Look at it through the way I view being an American. I fully acknowledge that my country has done some effed up things around the world. I think some of the actions perpetrated by the CIA and government are absolutely horrible, but the personal guilt/shame doesn’t hit me. I can sympathize, but I can’t feel ashamed for something I didn’t do(even when I know I have indirectly benefited from the wealth these horrible deeds have brought).
When I see ppl yelling anti-American slogans in the street, burning flags, and whatnot, I don’t get angry and go, “You ragheads shud be thankful us Amuurcans brought you freedom!” Instead I can understand why they are resentful, even if their hatred towards me for something members of my in-group,past or present, did is irrational. I don’t let it phase me bc I know that their anger wont hurt me(which is the exact reason why I don’t understand why some whites get so bothered by resentful blks who turn racist. They can’t hurt you, so why do you consider them a threat? Yes, they are 100% wrong, but you can’t at all understand where the backlash originates?)
What I don’t like is when ppl attempt to justify evil actions like slavery or the atrocities perpetrated by the US bc of jingoism, pride, or defense. When you do that, you are as disgusting as the person who directly committed the heinous acts. This is why stuff like, arguments about slavery get under my skin!!!
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Good comment Cynic. I think something that causes a lot of frustration among POC (correct me if i’m wrong) is that WP rarely acknowledge that slavery has ANY impact on the lives of POC today or that whites continue to benefit in any way. It seems like just getting to that point is way harder than it needs to be. Which goes back to Abagond’s 5 walls if i’m not mistaken.
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The Mansa Sakura in Mali became King. I don’t think in Africa this slavery- slavery is a western word which is originated from the word “slave”=people from eastern Europe kidnapped by western kings, like Otto 1st, to be slaves for life. In western world a slave is used like a cow from which people take the milk until it remains blood. In Africa -where Kings were priests firstable- a “slave” could marry a princess and became king or whatever.
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Lol Cynic they can’t change the past but they lie a lot. In france this is worse…
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Your last comment was not one of your best Cynic. Most Black and white people don’t really have a true understanding of what the African Transatlantic slave trade was really about. This, I think, is typified in that last comment.
If, as Abagond states: “…Slavery is just flat-out evil…” then present day white people are bound to feel guilty for something associated with their present day identified racial origin. An obvious deduction to make would be that somehow white people must be evil too.
Guilt, generally, is dis-empowering as an emotion and in this case suggests that there is nothing really much white people can do other than feel this way. In respect to the legacy of American slavery clearly this is, and should not be, the case.
For example. There is a lot white people can do about challenging racism and championing social equality amongst all Americans. However, unless they get a clear and unequivocal account of slavery’s legacy in historical accurate films, documentaries and other references etc…. Then they, along with other uninformed Black and POC, will continue to echo statements like:
“… “You are living in the past.”
“Get over it!”…”
Or for white people as an alternative to feeling guilty explore HBDer theories…
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This film: “Good bye Uncle Tom” is a good place to start as an accurate account of the American slavery legacy.
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“An obvious deduction to make would be that somehow white people must be evil too.”
You’ve hinted that you feel this way before, Do you believe that whites are genetically less moral then? Or do you think we just pass it down through our cultural traditions? You might have more in common with white HBDr’s than you think.
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@Jason
Please… You’ve made this basic mis-reading of my posts before too. I know your abilities to comprehend what I am saying are better than that!
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@Kwamla
White people can’t help being white. They were born that way. I think it is unfair for someone to be born with guilt/shame for just being who they are. I don’t want anything from white people. Their is nothing they can do that will make what their ancestors did to mine right. Nothing. In respect of the legacy of American slavery all I expect from whites is to acknowledge the truth.
@Jas0nburns
Exactly!
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I don’t feel that White people should walk around feeling personally ashamed for slavery either. I tend to judge individuals for their own actions, not those of their ancestors.
My beef with *some* White people is that they seem to fail to acknowledge the long-term effects of slavery on the world that we have today. However, if a White person can recognize the ways that he benefits from the legacy of slavery, and see how Blacks, as a whole, are still grappling with the negative generational effects of the institution, then I wish him well.
Just a genuine recognition of the problem, goes a long way in my eyes.
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#5 “Everyone does it” does not make it right. Besides, since when did White Americans regard Arabs or Africans as a moral example to follow?
You have no idea how many times I’ve used that second sentence in discussions with (“those”)whites, and watched as it instantly shuts them up. Pointing out their contradiction of always looking down on Arabs and Africans, but eagerly equating themselves (“the white higher grade of humans”) with them (“the darker lower grade of humans”) to excuse past white atrocities.
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“An obvious deduction to make would be that somehow white people must be evil too.”
please clarify that statement.
it sounded to me like you said…
white people=obviously evil.
If I misread that than do me a favor and explain to me how I misread it please.
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King said: “My beef with *some* White people is that they seem to fail to acknowledge the long-term effects of slavery on the world that we have today.”
From what I’ve seen, objection to the acknowledgment of the effects of slavery stem from its use in a prescriptive rather than a historical sense.
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@ Randy
please elaborate
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King,
Social scientists appear to be consistent in their insistence that both the causes of and solutions to social problems are rooted in the bestiary of various “-isms”, such as racism, sexism, classism, etc.
This message often seems to fall upon receptive ears, and encourages people to pin their hopes on broad societal changes to solve their problems, which historically has been a lousy bet.
This “waiting for a miracle” belief is inherently disempowering, and leads to people avoiding the unpleasant realities of modern poverty.
“They can’t help it because of what happened in the past” is fundamentally the same as “they can’t do anything to improve their own lives”.
I see this paradigm as being significantly different from acknowledging historical injustices.
To cite just one example, when you compare the outcomes of people like John Dau of the Sudanese “Lost Boys” with those of similarly poor black Americans, what is the difference?
It’s quite obviously culture and attitude. What changes culture and attitude? That’s a great question and worthy of serious scholarly and non-scholarly debate. But first that reality needs to be acknowledged and accepted.
But you’ll rarely if ever hear a peep of this from the groupthink social scientists whose only permitted prescription for poverty reduction is to continually resurrect the outrages of the past, as if that ever helps. It doesn’t.
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King:
Here is Obadiah Garver from the early 1800s:
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@ Randy:
Who in the world ever said it was an either/or thing? People do the best they can within present-day conditions and yet they can also work to change those conditions.
YOU are the fatalistic one. If we went by your thinking no slave would have ever been freed and no black man would have ever cast a vote – much less become president.
Because you reduce everything to the level of the individual and immediate causes. As if laws are set in stone, governments are powerless to right wrongs and political movements are unthinkable.
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Abagond,
Surely you jest.
I cannot believe that you are seriously suggesting that black Americans in the early 1800’s have the same amount of legal and personal agency as they do today.
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Abagond said: “Who in the world ever said it was an either/or thing? People do the best they can within present-day conditions and yet they can also work to change those conditions.”
I’m curious to know what you would change if you had the political authority, and how that would impact the behaviors which perpetuate the cycle of poverty.
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As a white man who has personally been blamed for the evils of slavery; I can tell you why I take umbridge when slavery is personally laid at my feet. It is an attempt to say that I’m less then human. That, I deserve to be punished, that my views are not valid and that I should just shut up. This is my life, I’m a unique human being and I will not allow you to label me. Label me as you will but I reject the label and those who would label me.
Maybe if you didn’t accuse so much people wouldn’t feel the need to defend themselves
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Michael Hoffmann’s revisionist website http://www.revisionisthistory.org has something on white slaves as well as Jewish involvement in both white and black slavery
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what do you expect white americans to do? what is it that you’re waiting for? recognition and acknowledgment of the evils of slavery and subsequent generational benefits in maybe a discussion situation is fair enough. but on the bigger scale you need to lay this to rest. things are the way they are there is nothing we can do to change it OTHER than make life better for ourselves (and if you want to be racialist, our own people). you seem to have good logic and reason abagond, so make sure you pass that onto the people in your life and spread a good and progressive mind-set that way.
and can everyone remember that morality has nothing to do with economics and international policy – you’re kidding yourself if you believe so.
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Abagail and e-dub,part of the problem is that we aren’t really allowed to lay this to rest. An example is the fact that every other day several White people come here to blame black people entirely for where they are in society, as if there was not hundreds of years of slavery and 150 years of Jim Crow and enforced prejudice.
And those are the stupid ones, who think they are accomplishing some great feat by insulting Black people electronically and anonymously. The real scoundrels are the ones who aren’t stupid enough to come here and make a stink but instead act.
If you think it’s difficult for White people to be accused of the “sins of their fathers” think how hard it is for Black people to be blamed for the very sins committed against their fathers.
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“I’m sure you know that it’s human nature to attempt to defend oneself when one feels wrongly accused of something. The reason whites feel wrongly accused is because most whites don’t understand or accept that we have privilege.”
Well, 2 of my stereotypes about white middle-aged Americans from another comment:
4. Democrats and repubs alike get angry, annoyed or uncomfortable when oppression of coloured people by white people is discussed.
5. They think coloured people are looking to get revenge for past oppression.
I don’t know if this reaction is related to white privilege. It seems more related to ‘all blacks/POC are alike’, because I’ve seen WP react this way to almost every POC’s mention of slavery whether the POC is holding them guilty for it or not.
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To add to King’s comment, ‘recognition and acknowledgement of the evils of slavery and subsequent generational benefits’ aren’t happening yet. Every time you mention slavery someone gets offended. It’s still very much a taboo subject. Holocaust isn’t put to rest, American Independence isn’t put to rest, Pearl harbour isn’t put to rest, WW1 & 2 aren’t put to rest, why must this part of history be ignored? How do you expect to get recognition and acknowledgement of the evils of slavery if we’re not allowed to discuss it?
Acknowledge subsequent generational benefits? Well, the majority don’t. Take a look at this part from a Tim Wise article:
According to a National Opinion Research Center survey in the early ’90s, over sixty percent of whites believe that blacks are generally lazier than other groups, fifty-six percent say that blacks are generally more prone to violence, and over half say that blacks are generally less intelligent than other groups (1).
(1) Tom W. Smith, “Ethnic Images,” GSS Technical Report No. 19, Chicago: NORC, January 1991
Blacks are routinely blamed for violence, high dropout rates and what have you. The racism directed to them in every sphere of life is ignored. And who can forget the mega-whining against Affirmative Action which is there to ensure that discrimination cannot stop a percentage of blacks from getting a place in the university or a job?
“things are the way they are there is nothing we can do to change it OTHER than make life better for ourselves”
That’s an excuse for not doing anything.
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African Slavery was an abomination. It was totally immoral and lacking in any sense of common humanity for one human being to treat another human beings like that. And yet it happended. Enabling most white people to benefit directely or inderictely from it at the expense of ALL Black people.
Having said that if we use words like evil to summarise what happended it provides no real insight in understanding what this morally degrading institution was really, or how it even came, about. What it does do, by implication, is set up this false dichotomoy of “Villian” and “Victim” with white people portrayed as the Evil villians and Black people as the happless victims. Hence the guillt and shame that follows on
Its too simple an analysis to say this about African Slavery in the same way it would be too simple to say this about the Jewish holocaust.
Do you follow this Jas0n ?
This situation of no full comphrension allowed is further entrenched by this observation above by anglesanddimensions:
The obvious question not being asked is why is this situation being allowed to continue?
In whose interests does it serve for this situation to remain the staus quo?
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Kwamla,
I’m curious to know how you would desire this “full comprehension” to take place and what lessons you’d want people to learn from it.
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An excellent piece in many respects. But I have a suggestion: your title, “Current arguments about slavery” is too broad. Terms like “current” and “slavery” have contemporary connotations that leave you open to undue criticism. Even ignoring the global slavery that existed prior to the rise of white supremacist enslavement of black people in the modern era (17-19th centuries), there is still a great deal of slavery in various forms going on today in the U.S. and worldwide involving children, young women, and other disadvantaged peoples. There is also a growing movement to oppose current forms of slavery–although there is no current argument in favor of slavery as far as I know despite the wicked institutions that benefit from it. Since “slavery” is not dead, nor is it limited to chattel slavery in North American history, perhaps your title could be more specific, which will only highlight the truth of your piece. Please be clear that I am not diminishing the evil of chattel enslavement of black people under the domination of a so-called Christian society. I don’t think any form of slavery past or present can rival it for its extent of destruction, wickedness, and hypocrisy. But “slavery” is just too general a term. Best wishes–LD
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Thats quite easy to illustrate Randy. Just look to the huge coverage in films, documentaries and exhibitions given over to the history of the Jewish Holocaust.
What are the lessons that we learn from this?
What would be the impact on the American kids psyche if this was something that was learned, discussed and appreciated from kindergarten?
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Kwamla said: “What would be the impact on the American kids psyche if this was something that was learned, discussed and appreciated from kindergarten?”
I’m asking the same question. What would be the impact?
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@randy: kids would learn the history of their country.
This somehow reminds me of our own civil war back in 1918. Those wounds were so deep that only the present generation of historians are able to look at it for what it was: a civil war.
So called Red guards killed few thousand people in Red terror and the Whites killed some 20 000 mainly after the war. Carnage was such that the mexican consul was abhorred (good to remember that Mexican revolution was on its seventh year by then!) and made officila complaint against the White terror.
It took some 80+ years to get over it. Counting from the 1960’s in the case of USA, things might be cooler on this whole subject sometime 2040’s. 1960’s because it was only then that the race problem really came out and could be no longer hidden.
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Although actual slavery may be long gone in the Western world, the “spirit” of it seems to have survived in the heads of some.
There are quite a few people who not only condone but in fact promote work (usually in foreign countries and far enough away to be easily ignored) under appalling, slavery-like conditions. This is often played down in the Western world. The ultimate cop out, as popular as hypocritical, is that it’s solely in those countries’ responsibility to monitor and improve the conditions. Another popular one “oh well, it doesn’t happen at my doorstep so what can I do?” Or “well, they’re free to go if they don’t like it. After all they’re not owned by their bosses.” The most arrogant one is probably “oh well, those people seem happy with the little they have and they’re used to this kind of hard labour anyway. Without it their lives wouldn’t be fulfilled.”
As long as arrogance and relentless egoism reigns in the heads of certain people, this world will never ultimately be freed from the attitude behind what is at least a necessary, if not a sufficient condition for slavery.
I think that there are yet way too many people whose only deterrence to refuse slave-like conditions (or even slavery in some pathological cases) in their own country is the illegality.
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Thats a great illustration Sam. Your example shows there are probably many similar stories in other cultures that could be shared.
So is it really that difficult to imagine Randy?
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Kwamla,
Perhaps I’m simply obtuse, but I am not clear on what would be different compared with current teachings on the subject. My public school education seemed to cover the topic thoroughly.
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Randy,
Perhaps if your public school education included discussion of films like this:
your understanding might have been slightly different.
So for comparison this is the type of impact I am referring to. It means you actually have to make the effort to view it if you truly wish to comprehend what I am saying here!
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Abagond:
Ass—U—Me
The current generation of young sistas and brothas think that race and racism is a thing of the past, but they’re mistaken. I’m gonna highlight some examples of modern-day racism, and how it affects african people throughout the diaspora.
1. The US criminal justice system is not equal and colorblind. Police departments protect white neighborhoods, not black. Violent blackmen are allowed to terrorize innocent black people in the hood, but if they do the same to whites, they’re hunted down like rabbits.
2. Whitewomen portray themselves as a minority group in the country, WTF!? How can they be a part of the majority, and be a minority at the same time? Affirmative-Action programs in government and business were created for black people. When did whitewomen become blackwomen? White females benefitted the most from AA, not blackwomen and blackmen.
3. White spaniards and arabs don’t consider themselves white, Really? Brothas, pay attention to what I’m saying? White latin men lust blackwomen, and they hate blackmen. White arab men lust blackwomen, and they hate blackmen. Blackmen who run around with arab and latin men are punking themselves. Whitemen who hang around blackmen don’t respect blackmen. They want the sistas, but stupid neegrows can’t see what everybody else sees. Whitemen, I don’t care if ya’ll get mad, You know I’m telling the truth!
4. Football and basketball are great, If you’re a whiteman. Blackmen don’t have it on lock like everybody thinks. Brothas sacrifice their bodies and health for rich whitemen and uncle sam. Sacrifice education and knowledge to be entertainment for wealthy whites……black people can’t waste money on football and basketball games. The white quarterback is the #1 position in all of sports, Interesting?
5. Whites say they want black people to get it together, Really? Black people who bend over for white liberals are loved by them and others, but blacks who are conservative, libertarian, and independent are hated by “The Establishment” more than white serial-killers who run around killing innocent women, Why?
Tyrone
20/20 Vision
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Dear Tyrone;
I think a lot of what you say is on mark, specifically 1, 2, 4, and 5 but that get’s to so what are you going to do. I do believe it’s a little more complicated that that. Take number 5, I haven’t noticed the black community rallying around Condi when she was subject to racist attacks.
As for number 3, I do count a number of black men and women among my friends and I can not think of a single black person that I hate. Maybe, I’m wierd but I’ve just never had the energy for a good rousing round hate getting all mad and hating just makes me want to go bed.
Take care
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From Star Trek Next Generation:
“Q” (JUDGE)How plead you, criminal?
DATA If I may, Captain….(gets a nod)Objection, your honor. In theyear 2016, the new United Nationsdeclared that no Earth citizencould be made to answer for thecrimes of their race orforbearers.
“Q” (JUDGE)Objection denied!
Seems on point some how
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“4. Football and basketball are great, If you’re a whiteman. Blackmen don’t have it on lock like everybody thinks. Brothas sacrifice their bodies and health for rich whitemen and uncle sam. Sacrifice education and knowledge to be entertainment for wealthy whites……black people can’t waste money on football and basketball games. The white quarterback is the #1 position in all of sports, Interesting?”
@tyrone this is a very good point but i think the rest of your post was garbage. and btw women still get discriminated against in the workplace and get paid less than men for doing the same work in many professional positions. are you too engrossed in your own pity to see inequality in other areas of life?
“Abagail and e-dub,part of the problem is that we aren’t really allowed to lay this to rest. An example is the fact that every other day several White people come here to blame black people entirely for where they are in society, as if there was not hundreds of years of slavery and 150 years of Jim Crow and enforced prejudice.”
@ king
fair enough but take a look at these statistics http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmhaff/193/19317.htm
in london, where i live the black population is maybe around 10% and i can guarantee that the prison population is also disproportionately higher. why is this? we can’t blame jim crow and hundreds of years of slavery here..
i have tried to work out why there is this pattern. i don’t think people will want to figure this out because it actually involves some self-reflection, which is very scary for most people
i think i’m too much if a realist to be involved in race discussions in this forum, but i actually care and want things to get better in black communities. the only way to get better is to start talking about what the problem is with us and what we can do to change things, rather than moan about what happened before. do you not think that’s more empowering? why do you give a shit about whether white people finally realise what happened and the benefits they have from it. most white people would maybe get it for a second, possibly feel a tad bit of guilt and then get on with their lives- and why shouldn’t they?
““things are the way they are there is nothing we can do to change it OTHER than make life better for ourselves”
That’s an excuse for not doing anything”
@anglesanddimensions – really? making a good life for yourself, your family and subsequent generations is an excuse for not doing anything??! really? you just don’t get it do you?
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Abagail,
You make some good points. I too am from London and concur with you about the disparity in the Black male prison population. This is no secret and you could probably find a similiar pattern in other Europeon countries. So your question as to why this should be the case is an honest one for reflection.
Remember this though the histories of settlement of Black people in the US and the UK, Europe etc are markedly dfferrent. The experiences may be similiar but the histories are not.
Nevertheless, regardless of what our histories are we can all learn from the past (Black as well as white people) and this iswhat I think anglesanddimensions was trying to express.
Instead of looking back at a shared slavery legacy and feeling disempowered…. Know it…. Understand it…And re-interperate it in a way to feel Empowered. This is the real challenge we face as former colonial subjects and slaves.
Its this part of the self-refection you refer to which is so very scary for a lot of Black people to deal with. Because its tied up with feelings of unchallenged self -worth.
Its this we cannot afford to leave and do nothing about.
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“really? making a good life for yourself, your family and subsequent generations is an excuse for not doing anything??! really? you just don’t get it do you?”
Scroll up and read your previous comment – “things are the way they are there is nothing we can do to change it OTHER than make life better for ourselves”
Things don’t have to remain the way they are. We can change the current system and make it better with the right kind of attitude and effort.
“i think i’m too much if a realist to be involved in race discussions in this forum, but i actually care and want things to get better in black communities. the only way to get better is to start talking about what the problem is with us and what we can do to change things, rather than moan about what happened before. do you not think that’s more empowering? why do you give a shit about whether white people finally realise what happened and the benefits they have from it. most white people would maybe get it for a second, possibly feel a tad bit of guilt and then get on with their lives- and why shouldn’t they?”
The purpose is not to get white people to feel guilty. The purpose is to know history and learn from it. If we could talk freely about slavery, its mechanism and the socio-politico-economical elements that kept it alive for so long and abolished it, we may have a better idea of the present system and the evils of it that we are(ok, maybe some of us) conditioned to turn a blind eye towards and how to get rid of those evils.
Whereas white people do not have to feel guilty about crimes they have not committed themselves or do not condone, it is important to get key white people to understand how slavery and Jim Crow hindered black progress. If your parents are poor, chances are better that you’ll be poor as well. And racism which has connections with exploitation of blacks doesn’t help either. A study shows people with white-sounding names are 50% more likely to be called for an interview than people with black sounding names even though everything else(credentials, background, education etc.) is the same.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
Blacks charged for drug offense are 48 times more likely to be sentenced to juvenile probation.
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=jX_eGZ0hRVsC&dq=blacks+are+48+times&source=gbs_navlinks_s
In the capitalist United States where class difference is increasing rapidly, education and healthcare are expensive, white people have half a mile head start. So to make sure blacks aren’t discriminated against, there needs to be some laws in place like the AA. Since the United States’ population is white majority, it’s tough to get such laws passed unless they understand how many blacks are forced to stay at the bottom. And that’s not possible without free discussions. If you have a problem with free discussion and an honest fact-search about slavery, I’m afraid then the alternative is far more destructive than you think discussions on slavery are. Many black people WILL wonder why they’re being told to shut up about slavery or any case of oppression involving black people and I can assure you in some cases it wouldn’t be helpful in maintaining good race relations.
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@kwamala – i agree completely. i am all about personal responsibility and i think that as black people we would do well to try and move on from he past, move past racism (that still exists) and empower ourselves rather than expecting ‘them’ to finally be nice to us and understand. asians experienced a lot of discrimination when they came over to the uk to but as you can see from the statistics i provided, their crime rate is low and they are very successful – and i’m talking about east and south east asians. they were abused, experienced major prejudice but they kept out of trouble, had great family values and perservered. why can’t we?? there is no reason why not, we just need to change our mindeset and stop making excuses.
@anglesanddimensions
“Scroll up and read your previous comment – “things are the way they are there is nothing we can do to change it OTHER than make life better for ourselves”
of course campaigning for more rights is a good thing but the latter part of that comment is equally important.
“Blacks charged for drug offense are 48 times more likely to be sentenced to juvenile probation.”
why sell drugs in the first place?? it’s that simple
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i apologise for my abysmal spelling in the last post. i’m a sloppy typer and forgot to spell-check
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@ Abigail, Randy, etc:
Just so you know, I do not go on and on about personal responsibility and making the best of one’s circumstances because I assume that is what most people are already doing, regardless of race. The poor black people I know work WAY harder than the middle-class white people I know. Thus my lack of Empowering Speeches.
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Abagond,
Unfortunately, simply working hard isn’t enough to escape or avoid poverty. I tend to go on about personal choices like illegitimate births and prioritization of education because they seem to be the most effective predictors of success, and represent actions which no one else can perform on another’s behalf.
As for failures of the public education system, have you seen the documentary “Waiting for Superman”?
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@ Abigail
“King, fair enough, but take a look at these statistics http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmhaff/193/19317 in london, where i live the black population is maybe around 10% and i can guarantee that the prison population is also disproportionately higher. why is this?”
Abigail, I think that to answer your question, we must first consider what the Europeans wanted from Africa in past centuries. Of course, they always wanted Africa’s natural resources: gold, ivory, diamonds, and petroleum, among others. But they also wanted something else. They wanted a permanent and easily identifiable slave class to become the bottom rung of their wealthy societies. Dark skin was a convenient marker—like a prison uniform that you could never take off.
As the centuries slipped by, voices of reason and compassion from within finally convinced these powers that slavery was an inhuman practice. But this did NOT remove the ultimate goal, it simply adjusted it slightly. Instead of buying and breeding a Black SLAVE class, they would develop a perpetual Black underclass of SERVANTS. Blacks would no longer have their spouses and children sold off to pay their master’s gambling debts, but they were still to be kept ignorant, intimidated, poor, and powerless. In essence, the Europeans created a hopeless class, only fit to serve.
This was accomplished by continuing institutional discrimination and giving Blacks none but the most rudimentary levels of education (by law). It was also done by enforced acts of terrorism, through racially motivated rapes, Black men beaten up by their employers, murders with no consequence to the White murderer, and lynchings where entire counties turned out to watch Blacks burned alive, limbs cut off, babies cut from their mother’s wombs while both were still alive, and stamped on the fetus as both mother and child died, and of course, hanging. All of this was done before crowds of approving townspeople who cheered as the savage and inhuman atrocities were being committed before their eyes.
Terrorism is effective even when a minority employs it against a majority, but when the majority employs it against an easily identifiable minority, it has even greater psychological impact. These methods did much do destroy and distort the fabric of the Black community in the West. The trauma and dysfunction was often concealed in times past, out of survival necessity. The problems were always there, but they were repressed and restrained.
Then the Civil Rights Movement came, and things changed very quickly. Some Blacks were ready to take advantage of it right away. My father got a degree in physics, and another in engineering. Others were not as lucky.
All of those years of
1 Purposely making Blacks more ignorant
2 Purposely crushing all of their hope and self esteem
3 Purposely destroying their family structure
4 Purposely terrorizing them
5 Purposely emasculating their men in front of their families
6 Purposely making sure that they were very poor
7 Purposely bombarding them with messages of their inferiority
8 Purposely equating them with animals or as half animals
9 Purposely segregating them away from everybody else
have accomplished their goal. The West now has the underclass that they have been working to create for centuries. They are filling up the jails, and loitering on the streets, and dropping out of the schools…
Gee.. I wonder what’s wrong with them?
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I have nothing to add, but wanted to get your autograph. @ King
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@king – and now it is time to make a change for ourselves. go to school and get an education. stay away from illegal activity. stop having numerous kids out of wedlock. re-learn the value of family. make sure that those people who suffered at the hands of an atrocious system didn’t go though all of that in vain
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Abigail/Sailorscout1986
Don’t get me wrong, I have done all of that myself. I highly recommend it. I CONSTANTLY encourage others to do so. When I’m among Blacks, I advocate this theme almost exclusively. I’ve even been called “Bill Cosby” by some of my friends, in mockery of my oft repeated rants.
But, all that I’m saying again is, that we must differentiate between cause and solution.
Cause: The important information for Black kids, growing up today, is that the discouraging statistics, the higher prison population, the lower test scores, the broken families, the violence and pathology, is not a result of their Blackness. It is a result of a very long campaign against their people by other people who meant them no good.
Solution: Therefore, it’s not hopeless. It’s not “in their genes” or because they are less than human. They can change things if they choose to do so. The best revenge is living well, and for that you (usually) need an education. You need to delay having children until you can support them. You need to have healthy relationships, and of course, you cannot EVER engage in ANY criminal activity.
Two related but yet separate messages.
Just understand that the problem of the past few centuries doesn’t get fixed in the in a few decades. It’s a slow process, that takes a balance of both inspiration and patience.
Yes, by all means, encourage the rape victim to go on with her life, and live to find happiness again. But DON”T insist that she do it on your timetable because you’re embarrassed by her trauma-induced psychosis, or because you’re tired of paying her hospital bills.
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Abagond,
I have to admit that following these last few topics has been very depressing…
I personally believe that there are no poor people in the US, (only people in debt)… because poor people can get a monthly check from the US government and help to pay their rent….this doesn’t exist in my country.
I grew up in a poor country where education is almost more important than religion, even the cruelest Jamaican gunman want their children to get the best education…many poor, black majority countries are like this…nothing new, quite typical.
Once we (black travelers) leave our respective countries to go to US, England, Canada, or Europe, we all face the same BS just in different degrees…we are subjected to the same crap as the natives…just in different degrees…
Tyrone, your list was intesting (from your American perspective) but that does not enlighten black people around the world as to why racism won’t die…
Its about power, class, and money…we are all taught that education is the key….it is…but it’s not enough!!
MONEY is what makes this world go around and as long as black people or majority black nations don’t have the power or control commodities that impact the financial institutions in this world,
then NO, we will continue to be marginalized by white, brown, and in-betweens of the world who look down on us…
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I meant to say,
then NO, racism won’t die…we will continue to be marginalized by white, brown, and in-betweens of the world who look down on us…
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“why sell drugs in the first place?? it’s that simple”
Yes, we all agree that drug dealing is bad, no matter who’s doing it but since the link says ‘juvenile probation’, I’m guessing most of the ones caught with drugs are smokers, not dealers.
however, my point was not whether pot smoking is good or not. my point was that the system in the US is heavily biased against blacks, otherwise why different punishment for the same crime?
i think everyone, not just blacks, should try and make life better for themselves in the right way. i do not excuse crimes. but that doesn’t mean i’m unable to see the fact that blacks(and mexicans and asians) face a lot extra trouble because of their race.
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Great blog, very interesting topics!
I’m a white male and agree with a number of points in your posts as well as others (and yes, I know you’re not writing for me).
I completely agree that America has yet to confront the effects the slave trade had on the Africans brought here as well as their descendants. A simple exercise I’ve suggested to many white people is imagining having the roles reversed — imagine being kidnapped, beaten, possibly raped, stuck on a boat and then trying to figure how to survive in a new land among strangers without being murdered then being told you can’t learn how to read and write and on and on to the point you question the very worth of your existence. How well would you and your descendants fare? What would you think of a country that wouldn’t let you take a piss in a bathroom because of the color of your skin? Personally, I’d hate the place!
If that doesn’t work, I tell them in the white world, you can see how such ages old abuse has retarded the growth of people in places like Northern Ireland, Eastern Europe, etc.
However, I completely disagree with most of your have to your “weak excuses” section since this portion betrays an ignorance of history at best or a profound lack of empathy at worst.
Slavery thousands of years ago was first instituted as a humane alternative to killing your enemies when they lost a war, and initially was not seen as “evil.” It was over time that it grew more and more evil, turning into institutionalized sex and labor abuse, eventually turning into a “trade” that most of the ancient world indulged in.
It was only after Western Christians began, starting with St. Patrick, began to feel it was not God’s will that the worldwide abolition movement was set in motion.
“You shouldn’t have been doing it in the first place” is an argument only a very comfortable, privileged 21st century observer could make, and certainly not a point that could be made by anyone who’s traveled in the Third World and had to live among people enslaved TODAY, as I have. Let’s see how well you’d do fighting THAT — could you muster the courage to stand up and fight for enslaved people whose masters would kill you as soon as let you buy them lunch? Trust me, fighting slavery means more than sitting around with your likeminded friends sipping coffee and knocking ignorant racists for insensitive remarks — it means risking your very life. I imagine your grandparents and great grandparents would not be so cavalier in their attitudes toward white abolitionists.
You did none of the heavy lifting it took to abolish slavery and seem to lack any real sense of how it cost thousands and thousands of white lives to end it, not just black lives. Would you make your self-righteous comments to a Union family whose sons died at Gettysburg? To an ignorant Irish immigrant hated by his Protestant overlords who’s then told to shut up and die in a war he doesn’t quite understand for black people with whom he’s competing for work on the low end of the economy should they be freed?
Secondly it’s not “weak” to point out that Africans sold their brother Africans into slavery — it’s central to the discussion. Had they closed ranks and fought the European slave traders, the slave trade could not have happened on the scale it did. Go back and read the history of the Mali Empire and how many African chiefs hated the white abolitionists for messing with their money train. Knowledge of what Europeans were going to do to African slaves was widespread in Africa (unless you subscribe to the racist paternalistic argument that African chiefs were somehow less intelligent than illiterate European rum runners!), but the trade never stopped until the abolition movement succeeded (and, today, of course, sadly has been resurrected, particularly by Arab militias).
Blacks in America were sold out by their brethren, plain and simple. Is it sad? yes, but I’m descended from white people (Irish) whom other white people wanted to kill, (English) so welcome to the human family!
On that note, I’m guessing you may not have much knowledge of white slavery — there’s a reason St. Patrick’s Day is celebrated in Montserrat! On that note, ironically, many white racists are as ignorant of how their own racial “brethren” also enslaved and abused them, but what else is new, getting Americans to actually research history is a difficult proposition.
Finally, it is silly to argue that slavery — which basically meant in ANY culture that your master could sexually or physically abuse you — was somehow “better” in Africa or Arabia than in America unless YOU yourself have actually been a slave. Slavery was legal form of rape and abuse, and even if a patronizing white abolitionist was a bit paternalistic in their efforts to end it, they still did more than you and any other modern day liberal minded person has done to end it. To implicitly dismiss their efforts as simply making up for something “they should have never done in the first place” is a statement only someone unacquainted with the incredibly courageous acts it takes to overturn ANY societal evil could make. When you actually, truly realize that, you’ll become the great writer I think you want to be.
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The reasons people make excuses about it is because they are tired of others bringing it up in order to make them feel guilty when they had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. Yes, slavery was evil, but it is over now and I am not going to be made to feel guilty for something that happened before I was even born. And yes, I can say for a fact that none of my ancestors benefitted from slavery since my family was Cherokee(who had it pretty bad themselves) and Scottish immigrants who came over in 1881, at least two decades after slavery ended. Come to think of it, what excused to people have when it comes to Native Americans and taking their land? Wasn’t it considered evil?
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Kanna-chan
Firstly, nobody ever said that every single person in the U.S. had to feel guilty about slavery. Where exactly are you getting this from?
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King
This post is saying that there are some people who still believe in slavery, but all the excuses the author gave was people excusing stuff in the PAST, not giving excuses for why slavery should still be going on. These types of excuses are usually given when someone has been confronted with the issue of slavery and they then make the excuses. Just because they give these excuses does not mean they believe in slavery today. In other words, in order to get these types of answers, somebody would have had to start the conversation and usually it is to make people feel guilty. For example: A black man walks up to a white man “Hey, don’t you think it was terrible what your people did to my people?”(somebody instigated the conversation in an attempt to make the other feel guilty). The white man replies “Hey man, my ancestors didn’t own slaves” or “You better be blaming others as well as white men, after all, your own people sold you to the whites”, and then the black man gets offended, assuming the white man is defending slavery. These are the very excuses the author has listed. These aren’t merely excuses, they are simple facts. I don’t understand how using these implies you still believe in slavery.
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And no, I don’t believe in slavery and if this sounds racist, it was unintentional.
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A black man walks up to a white man “Hey, don’t you think it was terrible what your people did to my people?”(somebody instigated the conversation in an attempt to make the other feel guilty
That scenario sounds like a comedy skit. Yes, black folks are going to accost random white folks and ask them this. I do this all the time but not to make whites feel guilty! Oh no, I do it for the entertainment and the priceless responses! After all, most black folk don’t have anything to do with their time other than doing things like accosting white folk and chastising them for slavery. Oh yeah, the Cherokee owned slaves as well, so you aint off the hook! Get a clue! Oh and since you brought up your native ancestory, I will throw mine in there as well, Ojibway, Chickasaw, Blackfoot Creek, and on the American side—–Cherokee!!!!!! You aint the only one to throw in the ‘Part Indian’ aspect in these arguments in order to not be accused of being a dyed in the wool racist!
Here’s another scenario, just as bizarre as yours:
“Oh noooo, I can’t be racist___Insert some generations back racialized pedigree(Pocohontas will do). And then cap it off with N*****. You see you can call black folk that because you are part something else albeit many generations back. You can even accost random blacks with this statement! But hey, you aint racist right? You just hate N******, right? Your many generations ago indian blood absolves you!
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Herneith
I have nothing against most blacks, just the ones who whine and cry about how hard they have it. And for your information, blacks also had slaves http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm so shut the hell up. It looks like blacks back then were no more innocent than we were, they were even worse since they enslaved THEIR OWN PEOPLE! Former slaves actually BOUGHT and owned slaves! So who were you saying wasn’t getting off the hook?
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Herneith
You want to know something worse? Only about 5% of whites owned slaves, less than 3% of Native American’s owned slaves, and a whopping ONE QUARTER of free blacks owned slaves. Just to remind in case you are bad at math, that is at least 25%.
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“The reasons white people make excuses about it is because they are tired of others bringing it up in order to make them feel guilty when they had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.” After all, your own people sold you to the whites”,- earlier comments.-
I am 52 yr. old A.A. female, who does not hate white people, even inspite of the racist degrading treatment my
grandparents, and parents went through in Red State “Jim
Crow”, Oklahoma. But ever since “Glen Beck” made the
comment on TV 2years ago, accusing Barack Obama of hating white people or having a problem with “white culture”, I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the subjects, of
white culture”, the barbarism that was committed against
black men, women and children, all but just as recently, in
the south just 45 years ago. My questions have to do with,
on the issue of slavery and the……..,but your people(africa)…,sold you” into slavery in the first place”….,therefore We White People are off the hook…..my
question is why would able bodied white men, go as far as
to board a boat, sail and seek out human beings, across the continent to bring back and do hard labor work, they could have just as easily done themselves, and therefore no need for slavery, in the first
place, and the lasting empact of negative race relations for
the last 400 yrs? Also, who and where is it documented, ever gave white men the moral right to take it upon them
selves”, and declare themselves as superior and who would
be considered inferior?, that blacks be permanatly till their
extinction in this world, for generations be committed to
sufferage, less than a heard of cattle? yet claim themselves
as christians”, and God himself says he doesn’t favor one
race over another, nor does he care for racists, who hurt
and oppress, any one of his creations”, through the parentage of “adam and eve”. Who annointed white men?
to have even to this day, with humanity power to dictate
over the holy savior, Christ the Lord”? If White people are
so tired of hearing about it””””, then would a conversation
on the subject of why do white people resort to calling black people racists?, when it’s not that we hate you”, like
you have establish a well documented history of really hating black people for 400 years, thru lynching, burning alive, false rape charges, ect……., “we simply don’t trust you”, knowing your history, and present, is that racist of us? to feel that way?, and if it is tell me why, and would you
trust us”, if the shoe had been worn by the other foot?
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Hate to tell ya dee, but free blacks owned slaves too. How do you know your ancestor didn’t own a slave or two? What’s your excuse? Oh that’s right, you’re not allowed to have an excuse in this thread because the author thinks they’re all bulls**t.
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@guilty bystander
1 Go back and read the history of the Mali Empire and how many African chiefs hated the white abolitionists for messing with their money train.
2, I imagine your grandparents and great grandparents would not be so cavalier in their attitudes toward white abolitionists.
3 Blacks in America were sold out by their brethren, plain and simple. Is it sad? yes, but I’m descended from white people (Irish) whom other white people wanted to kill, (English) so welcome to the human family.
Now my response fool.While I am on this subject, let me be clear that Africa was not responsible for its own devastation. The enslavement of Africans was not an African initiative. No African state built ships to transport Africans across the oceans. No African state or kingdom ever insured fleets of ships for the slave trade. No African people ever used slavery as a principal mode of production. So we must not allow Europe to set the agenda for the discourse on the enslavement of our people by trying to minimise Europe’s role and maximise the role of Africans.
Indeed, there were some Africans that collaborated with the Europeans but they were never the majority nor the initiators of this evil . There were some Jews in the Second World War that collaborated with the Nazis and there were some Africans that collaborated with the South African white regime , but in neither case can we blame the collaborators . They were in many ways victims themselves. Too often, the West has come to dictate the terms of our research, the content of what we study and how we report that content. It must be reported to the West, as they say, the mainstream journals, meaning white European journals. This is a trap our best intellectuals must avoid . If there must be material advantage to scholarship , let Africa set the terms, let the governments of Africa establish the awards that will attract the best minds to work in the interest of Africa.
You wanted me to elaborate a bit about slavery, namely some of the fundamental differences between racial slavery and slavery taking place within a society where racial differences were not necessarily the determining factor per se. Well, I do not claim to be an expert in this field but I have read quite a bit about it. I will limit my discussion to what took place here in Africa. You already have a basic knowledge of the African/Atlantic slave trade. You fully understand that that sort of slavery was based purely on race. It found its origin in the Caribbean when natives began to die off massively (through genocidal acts and their inability to naturally fight off diseases brought from Europe) and the colonial powers that be needed to replace the dying labor force with one that could deal with the elements. At the suggestion of a high ranking Catholic official (eventually a Bishop) in the area, Bartolomé de las Casas, the colonists starting importing massive amounts of West Africans. This was already being done elsewhere but his suggestion gave the colonial powers even more reason to delve deeper into this practice. Many historians blame him for the Atlantic slave trade’s eventual growth and domination in terms of large scale its use for cheap labor. This trend eventually spread to North, Central, and South America with the majority being imported into Brazil. Over time, the tension between enslaving humans and the moral and religious arguments opposing such behavior presented the individuals involved with an issue to be addressed. The religionists used the Bible through the twisting of scripture and other contextual tricks and decpetive means to justify the subjugation of Black Africans in this manner. In their view, the Africans were both cursed and destined by the Almighty to live lives as slaves, while White people were destined to rule. Their argument was that this was simply the natural order of things. The other part of this religious viewpoint was that these Black Africans were ignorant heathens and were in need of being exposed to Christianity. This is ironic in that Christianity reached Africa well before it reached Europe (read in the book of Acts 8:27-39 about the Ethiopian eunuch). Also, quite a number of the stolen and enslaved Africans came from lands where Islam was widely practiced. Since Islam is the third and final major world religion finding its origins in the Middle East, it is safe to say that some of the same lands where Islam was practiced could have also been exposed to Christianity and Judaism. Plus, there are elements of the aforementioned faiths within Islam. So, the White mans’ belief that the Black African was devoid of any contact with monotheistic religion, literacy, or civilization is rather erroneous to say the least. The other argument that White people used to justify the subjugation and enslavement of Black Africans found its root in what was looked as at “race science” in those times. White “scientists” and other “social scholars” believed that Blacks were in essence a subhuman species (a belief even held by such statesmen as Thomas Jefferson) that by the mere order in the world of nature, naturally placed them in a socially subservient position to Whites. They were looked at as beings that needed to be controlled and trained in order to bring them into some type of civilized social order. They were seen as lazier, less intelligent, more given to sexual urges, more emotional, less rational, and physically tougher and athletic than Whites. In a sense this combination of little intellectual capacity, physical prowess, and impulsive behavior justified treating them as animals in the sense of treating them as livestock to control, buy and sell, and use for labor purposes. It is interesting to note that this view of Black Africans and their descendants prevented them from lawfully becoming citizens, exercising certain rights extended to non-Blacks, lawfully learning how to read or assemble, having their families and marriages respected to prevent the selling off and breaking up of families, owning fire-arms, or travelling freely. Yet, these same White men that did all they could to keep these Blacks in a social state that was equivalent to that of livestock had no problem raping them or using them for other forms of sexual pleasure and even proudly siring offspring from them. Of course the children of such efforts were still considered socially and biologically inferior and were also kept as slaves for the most part. This is the essence of slave trade in the Western Hemisphere. It was purely racial. Yes, it was instituted and kept alive for so long because of its economic impact. But the nature of it was born and bred out of a doctrine of extreme racism. It differed from other forms of slavery found in various parts of the world in that these slaves were birthed into a social condition that they would die in. There were no avenues to get freedom other than their masters freeing them. But even if they were to gain freedom, their Black skin guaranteed that they would never gain full citizenship in a White controlled society. This was even the case for those who were of mixed race. They were slaves because they were Black–period. In other societies, slavery was sometimes temporal. This type of slavery was called “indentured servitude.” It was slavery with an option for the slave to buy their own freedom. The only slaves in this category in the Western hemisphere were White ones who paid for their passage to the “New World” by becoming one. Also, in other places, slaves could eventually become citizens and/or marry freemen. Interracial marriage was pretty much prohibited in most parts of America. Consequently, non-British colonies such as those in Central and South America did practice more intermixing and intermarriage. It seems that of all European racists, the British were the most intolerant and hateful. As stated earlier, other forms of systematic slavery afforded the slaves options for citizenship such as purchasing it or fighting in the military. Once citizens, these former slaves enjoyed the same rights and privileges as other citizens. Nonetheless, even if Black slaves were freed, they would never have been allowed to enjoy the fruits of citizenship. In other societies there was not such a sharp contrast of skin color to identify one as a member of the lower social class. And even in situations where this was the case, the presence of Blacks in other societies was not always the result of slavery, therefore Blacks could intermingle with the rest of the citizens without this cultural stigma being attached to them. Therefore, slavery in the Americas was the most brutal and inhumane type of slavery. When humans are captured, bred, bought and sold, killed, fed, and disciplined no better than animals would be and at the same time raped, humiliated, dismembered for attempts at escape, branded and otherwise mutilated, and even suffering the division of their families, one cannot really put this type of slavery on the same level as slavery practiced elsewhere. In other societies, there were plenty of instances where even slaves were allowed to operate with a limited number of rights. The only rights that Black slaves had in the Western hemisphere was to obey or suffer the consequences. The racialist component of slavery in the Western hemisphere was so entrenched in society, that even many years after the so called freeing of the slaves took place, Black people have suffered enormous amounts prejudice, discrimination, injustice, disenfranchisement, violence, and political, cultural, and social exclusion. The same can’t be said for other societies that practiced a form of slavery that did not have this element within its fabric.
The United States of America was established as a white society, founded upon the genocide of another race and then the enslavement of yet another. To make such a statement today is to be immediately accused of being rhetorical or, worse yet, of being “reminiscent of the ’60s.” The reaction is instructive and revealing. The historical record of how white Europeans conquered North America by destroying the native population and how they then built their new nation’s economy on the backs of kidnapped Africans who had been turned into chattel are facts that can hardly be denied. Yet to speak honestly of such historical facts is to be charged with being polemical or out of date. Why?
I have heard these and similars thoughts on many occasion. Perhaps, if you Mr could BOTHER to read the real Africa history books about the slavery era, rather than the ones pushed out in a propaganda bid to ‘whitewash’ the American side of the historical event (as they have done with the American Indians history), it would aid him a bit in understanding what actually happened in during that era, rather than make stupid comments such ” Blacks in America were sold out by their brethren, plain and simple.”
Can You even begin to imagine what it must been like for those African chieftains, you so despises and blame, to see death ‘coming out of a piece wood’ which is what the Africans, thought guns were, and simple folks that they were, believed the white slave traders to be gods whom, if they were able to perform , what the Africans thought of as, such wondrous magic, could also make them “disappear from the face of the earth and consign their spirit to the evil world” Such thinking and a whole lot more, which in our modern day, we can comfortably sit in our living room in front of huge tvs, and term as naive and mumbo jumbo, were common occurrence during that era.
And beyond that, why is the blessing of the white race—the race that ravaged and exploited Africa, went across the world slaughtering and committing genocide upon non-whites, used deception manipulation to gain control over non-whites, at least once sought to conquer the world and establish a global empire exclusively structured for the advancement of white people (and came pretty damn close). If you want the honest truth from a black person, I do not respect white people, collectively, as a morally upright race of people (particularly in the ways of dealing with other races). And anyone of any race who is completely honest with themselves, as well as in possession of sound reasoning abilities and a significant degree of information regarding the history of racial relationships in America and the world throughout, America would have sentiments congruent to my own
No, we must not allow Europe to set the agenda for the discourse on the enslavement of our people by trying to minimise Europe’s role and maximise the role of Africans.
I hold no appreciation for the white race,
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Im a Bulgarian slav. We were subjugated by the Turks, and for 400years we were exploited, forced to pay an infidel tax, and work their lands for free. Women were subjected to rape, their husbands murdered and their children stolen to be sent east and traded as slaves. My family came to Canada in the 1920s followed by a move to the states. How exactly have I or anyone in my family benefited from Black slavery? Get over it
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@Ajakenza
Actually the african’s kind of were the iniators of the slave trade, Arabs raided white towns first and made them slaves and sold them to African’s of various kinds.
It was pretty extensive; the arabic/african slave trade got pretty far out there too.
They may have been tribal people but most of them weren’t dumb, they probably figured out pretty quickly the white man wasn’t God.
And its not like all slave systems in the US were equal in brutality, it varied throughout the years and depending on what state you were in.
And mulatto’s weren’t all enslaved originally; I believe thats actually why the US’s slave system got so brutal and started using rules even the british hadn’t used in years, because so many Mulatto’s were being born.
I think at one point in some states they were close to half the population.
Also about black people owning slaves; I maybe wrong here but wasn’t at least some of that free blackmen and mulatto’s buying people to free them from slavery from others?
IE they owned them but not really?
But that said; yes it can most certainly be said the US had the most brutal form of nationalized slavery in anything remotely close to modern history.
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@ V-4
No they were pretty brutal, as were the black codes that followed. Neither of these things were initiated by Africans.
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How can any black child feel ok when they see old articles like this? It’s hard to not be angry about the hypocrisy in America–especially when our general approach to everyone we encounter is holier than though:
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1863/july/whipped-slave.htm
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What I find disgusting is the fact when whites deny reparations for slavery today they forget that we ask for justice today because their racist forefathers denied justice and reparations then. If whites can inherit the wealth and privilege today from slavery they can inherit the sins. Same evil like father like son
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WHAT MULATTO OBAMA FORGOT TO TELL THE NEGRO AMERICAN:
The Black Slave Owners
By Joseph E. Holloway
The majority of black slave owners were members of the mulatto class, and in some cases were the sons and daughters of white slave masters. Many of the mulatto slave owners separated themselves from the masses of black people and attempted to establish a caste system based on color, wealth, and free status. According to Martin Delany, the colored community of Charleston City clung to the assumptions of the superiority of white blood and brown skin complexion.
These mulattoes of the old free Black elite did not attend church with the dark-skinned blacks of Charleston City. They not only formed congregations which excluded freedmen of dark complexion, but they only married among other mulattoes to “keep the color in the family.”
Large numbers of free Blacks owned black slaves in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society. According to the federal census of 1830, free blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in Louisiana, Maryland, South Carolina, and Virginia. The majority of black slave-owners lived in Louisiana and planted sugar cane.
Slave holding among the mulatto class in South Carolina was widespread according to the first census of 1790, which revealed that 36 out of 102, or 35.2 percent of the free Black heads of family held slaves in Charleston City. By 1800 one out of every three free black recorded owning slave property. Between 1820 and 1840 the percentage of slaveholding heads of family ranged from 72.1 to 77.7 percent, however, by 1850 the percentage felt to 42.3 percent.
According to the U.S. Census report in 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. Out of a population of 27 million whites only eight million lived in the South, and out of this population fewer than 385,000 owned slaves. In short, the total white population own about 1.4, while the southern white population own about 4.8 enslaved Africans.
On the other hand the black population in 1860 was 4.5 million, with about 500,000 living in the South. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. In New Orleans over 3,000 free blacks owned slaves, about 28 percent of the free Black population in the city.
Year Owners Slaves
1790 49 277
1800 36 315
1810 17 143
1820 206 1,030
1830 407 2,195
1840 402 2,001
1850 266 1,087
1860 137 544
The following chart shows the free Black slave owners and their slaves in Charleston, 1790-1860.In 1860 there were at least six African Americans in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves. The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Black slave magnate in Louisiana with over 100 slaves was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at $264, 000. In North Carolina 69 free Blacks were slave owners.
The majority of urban black slave owners were women. In 1820, free black women represented 68 percent of heads of households in the North and 70 percent of slaveholding heads of colored households in the South. The large percentage of black women slave owners is explained by manumission by their white fathers, or inheritance from their white fathers or husbands. Black women were the majority of slaves emancipated by white slave owning men with whom they had sexual relations. Thirty-three percent of all the recorded colonial manumissions were mulatto children and 75 percent of all adult manumissions were females.
THE FIRST BLACK SLAVE OWNER–AND THE ORIGINS OF SLAVERY
Euro-Americans arrived in Jamestown Virginia in 1607, and the first large group of Africans arrived in 1619. However, House of Burgess records show that Africans were already in the colony before 1619. John Rolfe provides us with an eyewitness account of this first group. “About the last of August [1619] came a Dutch man of Warre that sold us twenty negars.” Among them was one called Antonio from Angola. Later, we find that Antonio becomes Anthony Johnson. Other listed was Angelo, a negro woman,” and John Pedro, a neger aged 30.” The census of 1624-25 showed that there were twenty-three Africans living in Jamestown, Virginia listed as servants and not slaves.
Africans coming to Jamestown between 1630 and 1640 could expect to be freed after serving their indented period of time about seven to ten years for Africans and Indians. At this time there was no system of perpetual servitude or slave for life, but the system was rapidly evolving. Between 1640 and 1660 slavery was becoming a customary reality. In 1640 three servants of Hugh Gwyn, “a Dutchman called Victor, a Scotchman named James Gregory, and John Punch, a negro,” having run away from their master were overtaken in Maryland and brought back to stand trial for the misbehavior. The verdict of the court would change the system of indentured servitude and set the system in transition to plantation slavery. The court ruled that the three servants shall received punishment by whipping and have “thirty stripes apiece.” The court ordered that the Dutchman and the Scotchman should “first serve out their times with their master according to their Indentures and one whole year apiece after the time of their service is expired” and that they shall served the colony for three years. “The third being a negro. . .shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life.” This marks the first time that race and color becomes a factor in the status of both black and white indentured servants. In other words, the system is rapidly evolving to meet the new demand for cheap labor, and race is slowing being used as the justification for the enslavement of peoples of African origins. Between 1640 and 1660 Africans were going to court and suing for their freedom.
In 1644 Thomas Bushrod, assignee of Colonel William Smith, sold a mulatto boy named Manuel “as a slave for-Ever, but in September, 1644 the said servant was by the Assembly adjudged no Slave and but to as other Christian servants do and was freed in September, 1665.” A similar ruling is found in the case Robinson.
In 1649, there were about three hundred Africans in the colony and an increasing mulatto population. African and European indentured servants off springs were increasing and considered alarming in regard to the status of the mulatto. That is a system was evolving based on being either black or white.
Africans who entered Jamestown between 1620 to 1650 could expect to be freed after serving their indented time and given 50 to 250 acres of land, hogs, cows and seeds and the right to import both white and black indentured servants. For a brief period in American history between 1630 to 1670, a number of Africans had become freedmen and owned indented white servants. The act of 1670 forbidden free Negroes to own Christian servants but conceded the right to own servants of their own race. By 1670, it was becoming customary to hold African servants as “slaves for life,” and by 1681 what was customary became law.
The first laws regarding the status of Africans recognized the free blacks. The first status was passed in 1662 provided that the status of offspring should follow that status of the mother. What this law did was to allow white fathers to enslave their own children, and free women of color to perpetuate the free black population. In other words, it also guaranteed freed black females the right to extend their free status to their children. Black women who have served their indentured period would not provide foundation for the free black community. Many of those African who were grandfathered in the new system not only became the free black community, but this is the origins of Black slave owners.
The act of 1668 dealing with the condition of the colored population related solely to the tax obligations of a free black woman, and two years later an act guaranteed to “negroes manumitted or otherwise free” the right to own servants of their own race and expressly denied to them the right to purchase or to own white or “Christian servants.” This law recognized and sanctioned slavery, but also guaranteed the continuity of the free black class, who were now largely mulatto.
ANTHONY JOHNSON
Black slave owners have not been studied as a part of American history, rather as a datum to American history, and yet slavery as a perpetual institution is legalized based on a case brought before the House of Burgess by an African, who had been indentured in Jamestown, Virginia 1621 and was known as Antonio the Negro according to the earliest records. He later Anglicized his name to Anthony. Anthony Johnson was believed to be the first Black to set foot on Virginia soil. He was the first black indentured servant, the first free black, and the first to establish the first black community, first black landowner, first black slave owner, and the first person based on his court case to establish slavery legally in North America. One could argue that he was the founder of slavery in Virginia.
Anthony Johnson arrived in Jamestown, Virginia in 1621. In 1623, Antoney[sic] and Isabella married. The next year they were the proud parents of William. William is believed to be the first African American born in British America. During his first years in North America, he escaped death in an Indian attack on Jamestown. During the following year Africans and people of color were a small minority in the Virginia colony. The census of 1625 reported only twenty-three Africans living in the colony out of a total of 1,275 white people and indigenous Africans. By 1649 the total black population was only 300 out of a total of 18,500 whites.
In 1635 Johnson’s master, Nathaniel Littleton finally released him. As the custom was he received a 250 acre plantation in 1651 under the “head right system” by which the colonial government encouraged population growth by awarding fifty acres of land for every new servant a settler brought to Virginia. He became the master of both black and white servants.
Anthony Johnson’s plantation was located on the neck of land between two creeks that flowed into the Pungoteague River in Northampton County. A few years later, his relatives, John and Richard Johnson, also acquired land in this area. John brought eleven servants to the colony and received 550 acres, and Richard brought two and received 100 acres.
In 1654 Anthony Johnson went to court and sued his white neighbor for keeping his black servant John Casor. Casor claimed that Johnson “had kept him his serv [an] t seven years longer than hee should or ought. Johnson who the courts described as an “old Negro,” claimed that he was entitled to “ye Negro [Casor] for his life.” Johnson realized that if he continued and persisted in his suit, Casor could win damages against him. So, Johnson brought suit against his white neighbor Robert Parker, whom Johnson charged had detained Casor “under pretense [that] the s[ai]d John Casor is a freeman.” The courts now ruled in his favor and John Casor was returned to him and Parker had to pay the court costs.
This case establishes perpetual servitude in North America, and it is ironic that the case was brought to the court by an African who had arrived from Angola in 1621. Slavery was established in 1654 when Anthony Johnson, Northampton County, convinced the court that he was entitled to the lifetime service of John Casor; this was the first judicial approval of life servitude, except as punishment for a crime.
Anthony Johnson lived on his plantation surrounded by his white neighbors. He had entered a system not based on slavery, but indentured servitude. There were many Anthony Johnson’s in America, who never spent a day in slavery but were owners of slaves.
MARIE THERESE METOYER
In 1767, a Frenchman named Claude Thomas Pierre Metoyer met Marie Therese Coin-Coin from the Kongo and promptly fell in love. They became immediate occupants in Natchitoches, Louisiana where Marie and Claude lived together as man and wife. They had their first children together in January 1768, a set of twins. Things were rough going for the couple; the church would not have anything to do with the relationship and at this time Marie and her infant son Augustine were still enslaved. Early in 1776 Metoyer purchased his child and shortly after that in a private document he freed Marie and the child. Years later Marie and Metoyer broke up but, not before fathering six children. Marie stayed in Natchitoches and worked the Melrose plantation Claude Metoyer left for her; he then moved to New Orleans, left for France and married a proper French woman.
In 1778 free nonwhites were a very small minority in Natchitoches, Louisiana. By 1785, that had not changed. Marie, Augustine, and two additional sons born to her after manumission were half of the free nonwhite population. By 1786, she had eight children Augustine, Pierre, Joseph, Dominique, Francois, Toussaint, Louis, Marie Suzanne, four of whom were still enslaved.
From the money and land that Metoyer gave her, she started a plantation. The first crop was tobacco, and in 1792 she was shipping 9,900 rolls to Cuba for cigars (Mills, 30). She also produced indigo, manufactured medicine and the major source of her income came from hunting bears and fowl. All this was done with the help of her older sons, because she had no slaves at this time. She tried for nine years to free her other children from slavery and in 1815 when Metoyer died all her children were freed. In 1816 written Church documents show that she had twelve slaves, but local tradition credits her with many more. Marie Theresa now had three plots of land estimated at 11,000 acres. She was now in her late sixties and completely turned over the plantation to her children. She died sometime in the spring of 1816.
Augustine was now married and on his own since 1795. He was the first of Marie and Claude’s children to acquire a plantation, and become a slave owner. Within two years he purchased his first slave, a male between the age of eighteen and twenty to help him clear the fields. Most of the slaves he bought were for labor, but he did purchase some for family devotion. In 1798, he bought his second slave, an eight-year-old named Marguerite who was his wife’s sister. In 1800, $300 was paid for his third slave; this was a child of his still enslaved brother. The next year a slave named Marie was purchased and became Pierre’s wife. His second labor slave was purchased in 1806, a female to be the wife of the male he already owned. In June of 1809, Augustine purchased eight “African Negroes” for $3,500 cash: a male, five boys and two girls aged eleven to thirteen, and then three of the males were sold to his brother for $1,350. In 1810, he purchased two more slaves from a planter in the next county. Similar purchases and manumissions are recorded for of the Metoyer children. In 1810, Marie Suzanne purchased a slave costing $600; the peculiar thing was that she was still a slave herself. By the 1810 census Augustine had seventeen slaves; Louise, fifteen; Pierre, twelve; Dominique, eight; Francois, three; Joseph, two; and Toussaint, one. A total of fifty-eight slaves were acquired in just twelve years. The fifty-eight slaves had increased to 287 by the end of 1830. The Metoyer surname owned an average of 2.3 slaves per person, and the whites in the county only owned an average of .9 slaves per person. No other family group came close to matching the holdings of the Metoyer name.
The affluent period was between 1830 and 1840 for the Metoyer family. Pierre, one of the less prosperous brothers died in 1834 leaving a plantation of 677 acres, after giving his seven children land for their marriages. Augustine divided the land between six children and kept two plantations for himself, which contained 2,134 acres (Mills, 109). Early in 1850 the Metoyer family had improved their land by 5,667 acres and had a total of 436 slaves. In the treatment of Metoyer family slaves there are some contradictory statements.
When it came to the treatment of slaves black owners were “in a bind”. If they were nice to their slaves, they were considered by the whites to be overly tolerant. On the other hand, if they treated their slaves harshly the blacks would say they were abusive of “their people”. Legend has it that one of the original Metoyer brothers was a hard taskmaster, but not to his own slaves. He would try-out the slaves and makes them do the worst work on his plantation, things that he didn’t want his own slaves doing. After the work was done he would return the slave and claim poor working habits. That same tradition holds for one of the sisters also; there are also many written advertisements about runaway slaves that the Metoyer family put in the local newspaper. They occasionally hired a slave catcher to retrieve a slave. There is no real proof that the Metoyer family was any different from other slave owner’s black or white. Not all of the black slave owners worked and owned plantations. There were many black masters who were artisans and used slaves as workers. One of the most prominent of these owners was William Ellison.
WILLIAM ELLISON (APRIL)
On June 20, 1820 April Ellison appeared in the Sumter District courthouse in Summerville, South Carolina, to change his slave name. Since, he was a free man he wanted his name changed to his former master’s William.
After his emancipation William moved to Stateburg, South Carolina (see figure 2) and became an apprentice for Mr. William McCreight. After four years of hard labor and William Ellison was ready to start his own business as a gin maker. The first few years he primarily repaired gins, but each year his customers and reputation grew. Between June 8, 1816 and January 1817, William (then April) purchased and freed his wife Matilda and his daughter Eliza Ann and brought them to Stateburg. His son Henry was born in or near Stateburg in January 1817, followed two years later by William Jr. and in another two years by Reuben.
By 1820 Ellison had managed to buy his first two slaves, two males, ages twenty-six and forty-five respectively. With the purchase of the two slaves he demonstrated to the local whites that he was not afraid to own, use and exploit slave labor. In just four short years he was a master gin maker, had changed his name and was now a slave owner.
William purchased a valuable location for his shop right at the cross road of town. The going rate at the time was $3.00 to $7.00 an acre, but he knew what prime land was worth and paid $375.00 for the land to his shop. The gin business flourished, and his reputation among the whites grew. Now that he was a prominent figure in the community he purchased more land, but this land was for a plantation.
To William Ellison slaves were a source of labor. This ideology helps to explain why there was a ratio male to female of 4 to 1 in the 1860s. The male slaves were a direct source of income, the females were future benefits. Assuming that the women produced children at a ratio of one boy to one girl the best explanation for a shortage of girls is that they were sold as slaves. The average price for a slave girl was $400 and selling twenty girls would add additional $8,000 cash, which could contribute to land and slave purchases. This silent tradition around Stateburg was not questioned, but his reputation as a harsh master was talked about. His slaves were said to be the district’s worst fed and clothed. Ellison and his family lived frugally; he was even more tightfisted about providing food, clothes, and housing for his slaves. His harsh treatment may have come from the fact that his slaves were very bitter, because the men and women had seen their daughters sold away into slavery. Also, the harsh treatment could have been from Ellison’s need to prove to the whites that he was not soft on slaves, because of his color. Sometimes his slaves ran away, and on at least one occasion he hired a slave catcher. He never skipped on medical care for his slaves, but he did not care to help their spiritual needs. Through all the years William Ellison may have been harsh on his slaves, but the money they produced helped keep his family well-to-do up until the Civil war.
In 1829 he purchased two more male slaves between the ages twelve and twenty-four. Early in the 1830s Ellison started using his sons as gin makers, but there was still more work than the men could handle. At the end of the decade, Ellison now owned thirty-six slaves thirty were male, and six female who mostly worked the fields and produced children. The census at this time had Ellison with fourteen slaves. As his ownership of slaves grew so did his land, buying over 350 acres in that ten-year span. By his fiftieth birthday, in 1840, William had reached a plateau that few whites let alone blacks had ever reached. In the early 1840s his sons and daughters married mulattos from Charleston and came to live on the Ellison Plantation. His sons became slave owners with the help of their father. The slaves were from the Ellison family and were just passed down to the next generation. These slaves were not income producing slaves, but rather house servants. By 1860, Ellison increased his slave population from thirty-six in 1850 to sixty-three, an increase of seventy-five percent.
That year, in the census he reported that his total worth was just over $61,000, which was very low for the property and personal slaves that he owned. The man who started out life as a slave achieved financial success. His wealth was 90 percent greater than his white neighbors in Sumter district. In the entire state, only five percent owned as much real estate as Ellison. His wealth was fifteen times greater than that of the state’s average for whites, and Ellison owned more than 99 percent of the South’s slaveholders. He never achieved a monopoly in Stateburg, but was the highest producing slave owner in the county. Without slaves Ellison could never gotten past the income of a tradesman; with the slaves he accomplished the security of no other.
Although, a successful slave owner and cotton farmer, Ellison major source of income came from “slave breeding.” Throughout the South slave breeding was looked down on with disgust. He began slave breeding in 1840. Females were not productive workers in his factor or cotton fields, so he only kept a few women for breeders, and sold most of his females. He had the reputation of being a harsh master. His slaves were the worst fed and clothed. He maintained on his property a windowless building where he chained his problem slaves.
His slaves were listed among the runaways because of his harsh treatment. Having started life out as a slave did not make him sensitive to their needs because he saw his slaves as no more than property.
On one occasion Ellison hired the services of a slave catcher. According to an account by Robert N. Andrews, a white man who had purchased a small hotel in Stateburg in the 1820s hunted down one of his valuable slave in Belleville, Virginia. He stated: “I was paid $77.50 returning the slave, and $74.00 for expenses.”
William Ellison died on December 5, 1861. According to his last will and testament his estate should be divided jointly by his free daughter and two surviving sons; he also bequeathed $500 to a daughter he had sold into slavery.
During the Civil War the Ellison family actively participated and supported the Confederacy throughout the war. They converted nearly their entire plantation to the production of corn, fodder, bacon, corn shucks and cotton for the Confederate armies. They paid $5,000 in taxes during the war, and they also invested more than $9,000 in Confederate bonds, treasury notes and certificates in addition to the Confederate currency. At the end of the war all this was worthless and cost the family a great deal of wealth.
On March 27, 1863 John Wilson Buckner, William Ellison’s oldest grandson, enlisted in the 1st South Carolina Artillery. Buckner served in the company of Captains P. P. Galliard and A. H. Boykin, local whites who knew that Buckner was Black was but overlooked this factor because of the Ellison family’s prestige and money his race status was changed to “honorary” white. Buckner was wounded in action on July 12, 1863. At his funeral in Stateburg in August, 1895, he was praised by his former Confederate officers as being a “faithful soldier.”
WHITE SKIN BLACK MASK
The majority of the colored masters were mulattoes and their slaves were overwhelmingly of black skin. There was strong division between the two classes based on color, class, status and a culture of whiteness. There was a color and cultural clash between the two groups. The mulatto community in Charleston separated themselves from the dark skinned people, and they banned dark skinned people from their social clubs and seldom married unmixed blacks.
They created exclusionary societies such as the Brown Fellowship society. Membership was based on brown skin meaning the sons and daughters of slave masters. They formed schools and benevolent groups to provide mutual aid and operated a burial ground and society. Among its members were John W. Gordon, William T. Oliver, Edward P. and Lafayette F. Wall, Richard Dereef and Robert Houston.
Richard Edward Dereef was one of the richest black men in Charleston. He had a Wharf at the end of Chapel Street, was in the wood business, and owned slaves and rental properties, most of which were located on the east side of Charleston. Richard Dereef would never have been accepted into Charleston’s elite mulatto society, but he claimed to be an Indian- and had money. For the most part the mulatto slave owner aligned themselves with the white ruling class and helped to preserve the system of slavery.
Among black slave holders the free mulattoes owners were over represented, being the offspring of white planters and merchants. Many of their white fathers provided for them. Thomas Hanscome, a white planter of St. James and Goose Creek, provided for the mulatto children of Nancy Randale, a free black woman, with six slaves as well as stocks and bonds valued at $150,000. In 1823, the mulatto children of Henry Glencamp, the superintendent of the Sante Canal, and Jenny Wilson, a free black woman, inherited eighteen slaves as well as the plantation called Pine Hill in Stephens of Charleston District.
Many white fathers accepted their black children as legitimate heirs. For example, the children of Michael Fowler, a white planter of Christ church Parish, and his black slave/wife named Sibb lived as man and wife and raised a family on his plantation. According to Calvin D. Wilson “there was a rich planter in Charleston named Fowler who took a woman of African descent and established her in his home…There was a daughter born, who was called Isabella; the planter insisted that she be called as miss Fowler. He expected his slaves to treat his mulatto children if though they were white. His children were so acculturated into the white elite slave holding class that they only associated with whites. In 1810, the estate of Michael Fowler was divided among his mulatto children: John Fowler, Jacob Fowler, Stanhope Fowler, Nelly Fowler Collins, Becky Fowler and Isabell Fowler Dereef. The Fowler failed to emancipate any of their slaves and regarded them as investment property. They held their slaves until the end of the Civil War.
Many enslaved mulattoes like William Ellison started out as a slave. Another case is Anthony Weston, a de facto free black of Charleston City, was trained as a millwright. As the slave of Plowder Weston, he was able to hire himself out to several white planters as well as work for his master. In 1826, his master declared him freed. His skill as a millwright allowed him to accumulate a great deal of wealth and he began to invest in slaves. Technically being a slave himself, he purchased a large number of slaves in his wife name between 1834 and 1835, to purchase a total of 20 slaves, investing $8,950. He trained some of his slaves as mill wrights and they worked in his business. He became one of the wealthiest black persons in the city. By 1860, his estate was valued at $48,075 by city officials
In 1822, Moses Brown, a colored barber, purchased an African American boy named Moses from Mary Warhaim for $300. He trained the boy in the art of barbering. By 1823, the boy was working in his shop on 5 Tradd Street as a barber. In 1829, Camilla Johnson, a colored pastry cook, purchased a mulatto woman named Charleston Todd from Joseph and Ann Wilkie for $375. According to a Charleston socialite, Camilla Johnson used her mulatto servant to work at several of the parties she was hired to cater.
RICHARD HOLLOWAY SR.
Richard Holloway Sr., a free person of color bought a slave named Charles Benford in order that the slave might enjoy his freedom. Yet at the same time he owned other slaves who were not treated so kindly. In 1834, he purchased a slave woman named Sarah and her two children, Annett and Edward, from Susan B. Robertson for $575. Within three years after the purchase, he apparently became dissatisfied with the slave family and sold them for $945. Even though Richard Holloway, Sr., allowed a trusted servant to enjoy-his freedom, he was still a slave owner for profit. He sold and purchased slaves as an investment.
In 1851, Elizabeth Collinis Holloway, a woman of color, placed her servant Celia in the city jail after her slave had run away. In 1852, Holloway’s servant Peggy was confined in the workhouse for disciplinary reasons.
In the Palmetto (rice areas) there were only seven large rice planters of African descent, and they were primarily related to white kin. One example of this is the Pendarvis family, which was one of the largest slave owning “colored” families to plant rice in the state during the 1730s. The mulatto children of Joseph Pendarvis, a white planter of Colleton County, and his African mistress Parthena, were given 1,009 acres of land near the Green Savanna as well as a plantation in Charleston Neck. Joseph Pendarvis gave to his children James, Brand, William, John, Thomas, Mary, and Elizabeth, land, money and slaves. They became one of the wealthiest and most prominent slaveholding families in South Carolina. James the first born received most of the property of his deceased father, and owned more than 100 slaves. By 1786, he owned 113 slaves and 3,250 acres of land. The 1790 census informs us that he owned 123 slaves. Many of the mulatto offspring of white planters became large plantation owners in their own right.
For example, Margaret Mitchell Harris and her half brother Robert Michael Collins inherit money, plantation and slaves from their white father. In 1844, she bought Santee Plantation for 4,050, but made $7,635 from the harvest in 1849. She ran a profitable enterprise.
SUMMARY
The notion of a homogenous African American group united by a common African ethnicity and culture is a myth. Many scholars failed to recognize the diversity in language, culture, class and color among African Americans, and how those differences provided one group of African Americans with extraordinary opportunities for higher educational and trade skills when compared to the black population. Historically, there has always been great tension between the “mulatto” and black classes because of the association of “yellow” skin with high status and class within the black social apex. Slave masters exploited these tensions for their obvious benefits, keeping their mulatto children elevated over the African field worker, and African Americans have continue to perpetuated this system of privilege and discrimination based on light skin long after whites stop make any distinction between light and dark skinned blacks. The root to this disparity is the American plantation during the 17th and 18th century.
The majority of black slave owners were members of the mulatto class, and in most cases were the sons and daughters of white slave masters. Many of the mulatto slave owners separated themselves from the masses of black people and attempted to establish a caste system based on color, wealth, and free status. According to Martin Delany, the colored community of Charleston City clung to the assumptions of the superiority of white blood and brown skin complexion.
After slavery it was the children of the mulato class that was more willing to cross the color line and to bridge the gap between light-skinned and dark-skinned blacks. Also, a large number of the “new” black leaders in the South came from this class/caste group. The sons and daughters of black slave masters were educated and resourceful. In the late 1860s, Frances Rollins, the daughter of William Rollins, a black slave owner of Charleston City, worked as a school teacher in Beaufort County. She was educated at the Institution for Colored Youth in Philadelphia and was one of four sisters who worked to uplift the newly freed in South Carolina. Later, she married William James Whipper, a state representative of South Carolina. Thaddeus Sasportas, the son of Joseph A. Sasportas, a mulatto slave owner, went to Orangeburg County to aid the ex-slaves and to work as a teacher, where he taught ex-slaves to read and write.
Bibliography
Franklin, John Hope, From Slavery to Freedom: A History of Negro Americans. New York: Alfred A.Knopf, 1980.
Johnson, Michael P. and James L. Roark. Black Masters: A Free Family of Color in the Old South. New York: W.W Norton and Company, 1984.
Koger, Larry. Black Slave owners: Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina 1790-1860. North Carolina: McFarland and Company, Inc., Publishers.
Lewis, Ronald L. and James E. Newton, Eds. The Other Slaves: Mechanics, Artisans, and Craftsmen. Mass.: G. K. Hall and Co., 1978.
Littlefield, Daniel C. Rice and Slaves: Ethnicity and the Slave Trade in Colonial South Carolina. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 1981. 74-80, 83-86.
Raymond Logan and Irving Cohen, The American Negro. New York: Houghton and Mifflin, 1970.
Mills, Gary B. The Forgotten People: Cane River’s Creoles of Color Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 1977.
Phillips, Ulrich B. American Negro Slavers: A Survey of the Supply, Employment and Control of Negro Labor as determined by the Plantation Regime New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1918.
Woodson, Carter G. Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830: Together with Absentee ownership of Slaves in the United States in New Haven: Yale University Press, 1985. 68-72, 84-85.
Roark, James L. and Johnson, Michael P. Black Masters: A Free Family of Color in the Old South New York: W.W. Norton and Co., 1984
A Defense of Southern Slavery and Other Pamphlets. New York: Greenwood Publishing Corp., 1969. 14-16
Elkins, Stanley M. Slavery A Problem in American Institutional and Intellectual Life. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1969. 165.
Gatell, Frank Otto and Allen Weinstein, Eds. American Negro Slavery: A Modern Reader. New York: Oxford University Press, 1968. 136-141.
Lewis, Ronald L. Coa1, Iron, and Slavery Industrial Slavery in Maryland and Virginia, 1715-1865. Westport, Conn.: Negro University Press, 1979. 91, 94
McDougle, Ivan E. Slavery in Kentucky, 1792-1865. Westport, Conn.: Negro University Press,
Rose, Willie Lee. Slavery and Freedom New York: Oxford University Press, 1982.
Smith, Julia Floyd. Slavery and Rice Culture in Low Country Georgia, 1750-1861. Knoxville: The University of Tennessee Press, 1985. 70-71.
Stampp, Kenneth M. The Peculiar Institution: Slavery in the Ante-Bellum South. New York: Vintage Book, A Division of Random House, 1956.
Penn University Prof Says Zimmerman Let Off Because God Is a ‘White Racist’
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, July 15, 2013, 6:19 PM
University of Pennsylvania religious professor Anthea Butler put blame on God for the Zimmerman verdict. Butler says its because God “is a white racist.”
This woman teaches religion.
Biz Pac Review reported:
While those on the left look to place blame for George Zimmerman’s acquittal in the death of Trayvon Martin, a radical professor said it’s because God is a white racist.
In an editorial published on Sunday, Anthea Butler, a religious professor at the University of Pennsylvania, proclaimed God is “a white racist god with a problem.”
“God ain’t good all of the time. In fact, sometimes, God is not for us. As a black woman in an nation that has taken too many pains to remind me that I am not a white man, and am not capable of taking care of my reproductive rights, or my voting rights, I know that this American god ain’t my god. As a matter of fact, I think he’s a white racist god with a problem. More importantly, he is carrying a gun and stalking young black men.”
Butler, who accused Walmart of being sharecroppers and slave owners earlier this year, acts like the country is still in 1950s Mississippi when she said “most good conservative Christians in America think… whatever makes them protected, safe, and secure, is worth it at the expense of the black and brown people they fear.”
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You’re conclusion is that white people base their self worth on being white, therefore they justify( or partially excuse the behavior or zeitgeist) slavery. Not only is this a logical fallacy that does not follow. You then go on to state that the “excuse” that the white individuals family never owned slaves doesn’t count because they benefit from owning slaves…. lol! Your arguments show the knowledge you lack. But I am not surprised considering you’re just some average joe.
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But if slavery never happened, most blacks in America today would be in Africa still, in even worse conditions. You wouldnt even exist.
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^ Geez.
Wow, we don’t have to worry about cows becoming an endangered species as they are shipped around the world and bred like cattle. The Eurasian aurochs went extinct. The American bison almost did.
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“Western slavery was worse than African slavery: it was based on race, it lasted for life and it was on a much bigger scale. Many were worked to death, like in Haiti and Barbados. Whites willingly sold their own children as slaves. This was not “what most human societies do”.
@abagond
There are examples of African slavery being just as brutal as Western slavery in terms of labor exploitation or oppression. In 19th century Nigeria and Benin, as the British were gradually getting other Europeans and the US to end the international slave trade with Africa, some societies began to use the slave labor they would’ve sold abroad to produce export commodities Europe wanted. So, in the case of parts of 19th century ‘Nigeria’ and Dahomey, we begin to see a brutal form of slavery evolve in which wealthy people work slaves to produce larger amounts of palm oil, something Europe wanted for the manufacture of soaps and in other industries. So, in some parts of Africa, one could find very brutal forms of slavery that were on a large scale, required brutality or force, and were not temporary.
It’s all part of the notion of ‘legitimate’ commerce that Britain tried to impose on trade with Africa. Basically, since the British anti-slave trade squadrons were all over the coast of West Africa, they could try to intercept slave traders heading across the Atlantic, and then take the ‘recaptives’ to Sierra Leone. In response to the demands for ‘legitimate’ commerce the British wanted, some societies turned to brutal forms of forced labor to satisfy the growing demand for palm oil. Funny, the British had a problem with the slave trade, but never had any issue buying something produced with slave labor….
I believe one could look to Zanzibar and East Africa, too. But that’s a more complicated question because it involves Arabs and Asians.
By the way, this actually remains relevant to the 21st century where labor exploitation is rampant on palm oil plantations all over the world.
https://networks.h-net.org/node/16821/reviews/18892/araujo-mann-slavery-and-birth-african-city-lagos-1760-1900
Click to access Meghans.pdf
http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handle/123456789/130134/3a5e549a2dc662e5bffae93fa3a6c393.pdf?sequence=1
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Some slaves in South Africa were very lucky. Consider Nantsana van Madagascar, the great-great-grandmother of the great Boer leader Andries Pretorius. Not only were her descendants liberated from her blackness, but they were the leaders of White nations.
Every black woman’s secret dream is for her descendants to cross the colour line and become powerful White people.
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“Whites willingly sold their own children as slaves.”
Most halfslag (half-White) slaves in South Africa were freed by their White fathers, and went on to marry into the White community.
And yet, White South Africans have a reputation for being racist to an unreasonable degree. It’s just pure and unadulterated hatred, directed at one of the finest people the world has ever seen.
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Paul, thanks for the laugh. Reality check, the Boers weren’t all that powerful. The Brits kicked their “arse” and they were obliged to surrender to people they consider “inferior”.
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Apartheid ended because de Klerk thought a negotiated settlement would be better in the long run than a continuation of unjust sanctions. Who know if he was right? We didn’t have to end apartheid.
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