A guest post by Serpentus:
There are two main stereotypes Americans have of Russian women: Olga and Petra. Since most Americans believe that Russia and all of Eastern Europe basically share the same history, culture, and language, the stereotypes apply generally to all Eastern European women.
Olga is a rough, tough woman with a masculine attitude and with an even more masculine voice. She speaks with a thick accent. She is strong due to the long, bitter years of communism and living with the bears in caves during the blizzards of winter. It is comparable to the Sapphire stereotype that Americans have of black women.
Olga likes to drink vodka. She is not feminine nor sexy. Men are afraid of her. She can be of almost any age, although she is usually seen as being older, near middle-age. She is angry and sometimes depressing to be around.
Americans notice that Eastern European immigrants do not smile or laugh much. However, Russian women do have a sense of humor; it is just expressed differently – not like the fake smiles that cashiers give that most Americans are used to. When a Russian woman smiles at you, you can be sure that it is genuine.
Petra is a beautiful young woman who also has an accent, but in a sexy sort of way (An attractive face and body more than make up for an ugly accent.) Men go crazy after her. She is seen as exotic, feminine, and submissive.
Petra is the complete opposite of Olga.
Petra easily fits into the American racialized standards of beauty (blonde hair and blue eyes) because she is white. Thus, Russian models can easily surpass any African, Latina, Mixed, or Asian model due to society’s favor of white beauty.
Petra is submissive, a possible housewife who takes care of the children, cooks, and cleans – a dream come true to American white men who bemoan the loss of the stereotypical submissive 1950s American housewife.
Both Petra and Olga drink vodka, but Petra is sexy, not angry, when drunk.
Both Petra and Olga are materialistic, but Petra is seen as rich and Olga as either middle-class or poor.
In a way, Petra is a little bit like the Jezebel stereotype Americans have of black women – they will marry any man with money because they desperately want to escape Russia.
Many readers may wonder how Americans can have two opposite stereotypes of Russian women. The truth is that they don’t.
The Olga stereotype has been falling away for some time now. Less and less people hold the Olga stereotype. It seems to have arisen during the Cold War from American propaganda that all communists were cold, sad, and inherently evil.
Since at least the 1990s, the Petra stereotype has become more dominant and influential, most likely because of mail-order Russian brides and Eastern European supermodels such as Petra Nemcova (for which I coined the stereotype. Nevermind that she is Czech; for Americans, it is all the same).
See also:
I’ve only met one Russian chick in my entire life. Second semester of my first year of college in Speech class. Her face looked–weird…
She had on this ugly ashy pink sweater tied around her shoulders & this dress that screams out Old Country. Her light brown disheveled hair bun looked like she just got done walking through a hurricane. I never actually heard her speak until the end of the semester when we had to give our final speeches. Her’s was a long story, spoken in a rather awkward accent, about how the relevance of a Russian children’s story is lost when it is translated into English -_-
Russian women are lucky I don’t stereotype bc she was a 100% pure Olga!
LikeLike
“Many readers may wonder how Americans can have two opposite stereotypes of Russian women.”
Do you really believe this?
In reality, many readers will have no trouble classifying large enough groups into a few discrete stereotypes, even with a number of opposing characteristics.
LikeLike
This is the polar opposite of the Russian chick I came a cross in college. I bring you, Irina “Petra” Shayk!
LikeLike
I work a lot with new-rich russians in a ski resort, and they are very easy to spot based on sterotypes, both the women and the men. I work most with Petras, and they very often the mistress, not the wife; Olga is home in Russa. Both Russian men and women wear ski-clotheings with a high “bling-bling” factor, brands like Descente, Vist, Spyder, Goldwin, Verscace or Dolce & Gabana. In other words expensive but trashy. The women most likely use tight ski pants.
The russian women are often over feminine and “helpless princesses”. The men are men are often very macho, unpatient and do not accept to fail, a funny combo with overweight and bad coordintation on skies.
A mountain guide from Kilimanjaro once told me a funny story about this. He had a big macho customer from russia in his mid 40ies with t-shirt and down-jacket, who refused to slow down his tempo and take brakes. Sudenly he fall dead as a duck from hart attac.
LikeLike
P.S. the Olga type I known as the Babuska type.
LikeLike
It seems to have arisen during the Cold War from American propaganda that all communists were cold, sad, and inherently evil.
Partly, but keep in mind that during the Communist era it was really, really hard for Russian women to be hot even if they wanted to. Clothes, lingerie, and beauty products were not on the shelves because the state did not give a damn about whether or not women looked good.
Check this out:
http://www.realussr.com/ussr/sexy-soviet-underwear-not/
LikeLike
Very Olgaesque!
But I have met some quite attractive Russian women.
LikeLike
Great post abagond. Boy it is something how the stereotypes are so similar no matter what group they’re stigmatizing this time. I went to small high school with a large contingent of Eastern Europeans (primarily Russians and Ukrainians).
I didn’t come away with any particular impression of Eastern European women. Some are tough, some are nice, some are both all at once. Some are pretty, some are not. Some are old, some are young, many are in the middle (would seem obvious, if not for the stereotype that they are either young or old). Some are really smart, some are dumb. It’s like they’re people or something.
People who truly fit a stereotype are the exceptions. Most people are complicated.
LikeLike
Olga is Petra in 15 years.
LikeLike
***An attractive face and body more than make up for an ugly accent.***
Personally, I quite like the Russian accent 🙂
LikeLike
I usually think of “Tatyana” as opposed to “Petra”, but whatever.
The Olga stereotype was reinforced in the 80s by the revelations that Olympic athletes from the Communist Bloc (primarily East Germany) were taking large amounts of steroids and thus becoming more manlike.
@ The Cynic:
Interestingly, Irina Shayk’s father is Tatar (a Central Asian-derived Turkic ethnic group), thus the Muslim surname and her rather un-Russian look.
Cristiano Ronaldo is a lucky fella.
LikeLike
@jas0nburns
**Olga is Petra in 15 years.**
I believe you mean that Petra is Olga in 15 years.
LikeLike
You spend some much time worrying about the negative perceptions of black people. It is always so depressing to read your posts. Stop including black people please! Why dont you write about white men?
LikeLike
@Disgusted
**Why dont you write about white men?**
Abagond did.
LikeLike
@Lugo
**Partly, but keep in mind that during the Communist era it was really, really hard for Russian women to be hot even if they wanted to. Clothes, lingerie, and beauty products were not on the shelves because the state did not give a damn about whether or not women looked good.**
Thanks for the insight. Also, beauty products were also seen as bourgeouis–something that the upper class women bought. Introducing competitive beauty products and clothes would lead to–gasp–capitalistic revolution and undermine the unisexual equality that communism preached.
LikeLike
**The Olga stereotype was reinforced in the 80s by the revelations that Olympic athletes from the Communist Bloc (primarily East Germany) were taking large amounts of steroids and thus becoming more manlike.**
Ah, masculine German women. That stereotype is called the Helga stereotype.
LikeLike
Olga is Russian.
Helga is German.
LikeLike
Disgusted,
You must read Abagond’s other blog entries before you make generalizations.
Abagond,
I was wondering, what about the images of Russian female villians (like the Baroness from G.I. Joe or Natasha from Rocky and Bullwinkle) that show up in movies, cartoons, etc.? I just now thought of it.
LikeLike
As a neighbour to the russians, I must admit that russians are nothing like you think they are. They are everything you think they are and so much more.
Once Olga takes a shower, goes trough some 10 000$ plastic surgery, puts on the make up, mink coat, high heels and goes for 200$ hairdresser and shows up in a brand new Mercedes saloon, you would never know that she is Olga. She has become Petra in your eyes.
Russia is in reality a hodge podge of dozens of ethnic groups and languages. From karelians and finns in the west, to the samojeds and others in Siberia. Usually when outsiders talk about russians they mean the Great Russian people, which again includes such groups as the muskovites etc. So in actuality there is no more “russian” as there is “american” in ethnic sense. It is a myth.
One myth is also the poverty. Yes, there are poor russians. But there are dozens of billionaires too. Some of the richest men in the world are actually russian citizens. Yes, they really billionaires. They fly with their own jets into England and buy some of the biggest soccer clubs in the world. Why? Because it is their hobby.
The thing what is absolutely true of all the myths is this: it is a big friggin country! It is big. Just look at the map. From St. Petersburg to Vladivostok is pretty long way.
Russians have great sense of humor also. Without that they would have never survived. Great culture, absolutely devine food and yes, some of the dumbest byrokrats and milis in the world.
I can not remember who it was, Dostojevski or Tolstoi, who said that in the morning russian is your best friend. In the day he becomes envious of your success. In the evening he starts to drink. During the night he is absolutely drunk and kills you, and in the morning he is sincerily sorry for hios bad deeds.
Russians themselves also say: Russia, a country where nothing works but everything can be worked out.
“A mountain guide from Kilimanjaro once told me a funny story about this. He had a big macho customer from russia in his mid 40ies with t-shirt and down-jacket, who refused to slow down his tempo and take brakes. Sudenly he fall dead as a duck from hart attac.”
Sounds just like a finn that dude 😀 But then again, we are neighbours 😀
LikeLike
I don’t know why people believe all Russians look White because they don’t. You can have very pale, blond(e), blue-eyed Russians as well as tan, brown-haired, brown-eyed Russians. You can have Russians whose facial structures look White and you can have Russians who look more stereotypically East Asian (they do share borders with Middle Eastern and East Asian countries, not only European ones). I’ve known a Russian girl who had East Asian features, tan skin, blue eyes and blonde hair. Her full sister (not a half sister), on the other hand, was pale, brown-haired and looked completely White.
I have only met a handful of Russians in my lifetime. Generally, I do find it is true that they appear to be somewhat impassive and aloof, but once you’re friends they are much more open and aren’t afraid to smile and laugh with you. Perhaps I was one of the few who weren’t intimidated by first impressions because I can give off the same vibe since I’m shy and quiet.
LikeLike
I’m a Russian American, and I find your analysis interesting.
I think alot of the reason why Americans have this perception of Russians alot different from those of western european background is the communist link (which is obvious), but also, to many Americans, Russians despite their appearance, are still “not quite white”. I can’t tell me how many times I got asked in high school when I told them my ethnicity, then they’d say “is that like asian or half asian or something”
so we look white, but I think our customs, are darker features, and are different facial structures (not to mention that many of us have “chinky” eyes, even if blue) make us seem less than white, therefore, the unwritten rule against stereotyping white women doesn’t apply when it’s used on Russian women.
LikeLike
@Iris: exactly. think how asiatic Boris Yeltsin and Brezhnev look. same with Lenin and Felix Dzerzhinsky. they all look very asiatic (as do I myself).
LikeLike
The average Russian looks ALOT more like this than blonds you see in the media (it’s just that the media likes to find the blondest, whitest looking women possible, as you probably know)
not exactly what the media says we all look like if you notice. My dad looks a lot like Yul Brynner, very asiatic in appearance.
Even the Nazis said we weren’t white. we were “asiatic mongols” and thus were inferior. which is why I don’t like being called white sometimes–why were we only white when we came to America, when before we were (proudly) Eurasian? this is truth. look up the Dugin movement of eurasianism.
LikeLike
@ SMD707415: The girl I knew had a more pronounced East Asian appearance. I can imagine she would’ve looked very similar to this little girl as a child: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/233/453092344_aa74a3ec45.jpg
I suppose when people want to build an image of what a ‘typical’ person from X country looks like, it’s tough for them to imagine more than one stereotypical appearance (even if the country is huge). Especially when they have not met a lot of people from that area. Where I live, it’s rather easy to come across Russians. There are enough that you may be required to speak Russian in order to work in some places. But in other countries it may be such that most people are forming images completely from hearsay and others’ stereotypes.
LikeLike
@SMD707415
I don’t think that Hitler believed in something called “The White Race”
He mostly waged wars against countries that were completely white.
Unusual for a modern day American Neo-Nazi.
LikeLike
Some replies are sure… Interesting. As if there “is” a stereotypical Russian woman or something.
Actually, it’s (gasp!) what Danila said:
“Some are tough, some are nice, some are both all at once. Some are pretty, some are not. Some are old, some are young, many are in the middle (would seem obvious, if not for the stereotype that they are either young or old). Some are really smart, some are dumb. It’s like they’re people or something.”
LikeLike
Now, if you excuse me, I’ll just copy/paste a comment I left at Serpentus’ :
These stereotypes (like any other ethnic stereotypes) are ridiculous beyond words. However, people still buy into them because it’s more convenient, it goes along the confirmation bias and, the most important of all, it makes people good about themselves and THEIR ethnicity.
For example, there ARE poor, uneducated, dirty people in Russia. But there are such people in the USA and UK, too. You can’t compare – like people often do – rich New Yorkers and people living in a small, rural village somewhere in the middle of nowhere. It’s not that living in a big city is better than living in a village, but you just can’t compare the two. So if you want to take a person from a large American city, compare her with a person in Moscow (Bucharest, Belgrade, Budapest), and not someone living in a remote rural area. Or, if you want to take a Eastern European villager, compare her with someone living in rural area of US.
People who live in big cities tend to be more similar, even across cultures, to those living in rural areas. I bet I am more similar to someone living in Chicago than someone living in a Serbian village (as shocking as this may sound).
But for “some reason” they never take this into account.
Anyways, I am familiar with most of these stereotypes, but this one was a surprise:
Americans notice that immigrants from the Eastern European region do not smile or laugh much as much as American people do.
Whaa… ??? I had no idea this stereotype exists. If nothing else, I thought Eastern Europeans are known for being “way too loud and having fun all the time”. I am asking this because there’s a stereotype about westerners (yes, we do have lots of them) being cold and distant. I had no idea Americans laugh a lot. You see, people here take a great pride at being very friendly, open and full of hospitality (unlike cold westerners 😉 ) so I had no idea Americans think EE don’t laugh.
I guess it’s one of those cultural things. People (even female people) are not required to maintain a fake smile in order to seem polite, but I had no idea it is considered good manners in the US.
It’s very easy to buy into stereotypes without understanding cultural differences.
For example, the stereotype of Russians being loud shows basic misunderstanding of cultural differences. Russians (and EE in general) tend to talk louder and faster than the westerners. It doesn’t mean they are angry, violent or in constant argument. Just like it doesn’t mean westerners are boring and cold for not doing that.
Oh, and now my favourite one: hot, SUBMISSIVE women. I think any Eastern European guy would laugh at this. I am not saying Eastern European women are Saphires, but if you are to choose a stereotype, that one is closer to the truth to quiet, submissive lady.
I honestly, honestly don’t know where this stereotype came from. Eastern European men tend to be quite sexist sometimes, so you learn to live and fight that, but in all honesty, I do not think western men are any different. They might talk differently, but basically are the same.
Eastern European women tend to value tradition, that is true. However, one thing Americans don’t get is that by “tradition” they don’t mean “I’ll be submissive to my husband”, but “valuing my culture and history”. Most Europeans think that Americans don’t have much of a history (and therefore, tradition) anyway, and it’s something Europeans take a great pride at. Also, EE value family traditions a lot, but it still doesn’t mean being submissive. It basically means doing everything you can to your children. EE think it’s cold and barbaric for kids to move out at the age of 18 or 19, or that a person aged 20 sees his parents several times a year. (Now, EE go in the opposite direction, of never really letting their kids grow up, but that’s another story).
Plus, it’s about cultural differences once again. You could say American women are submissive because many choose not to work after they get married and there are many stay at home moms. Something like this is not common in Eastern Europe: women work as much as men do. I don’t know how the things are today, but during socialism, there weren’t any difference in salaries between men and women.
It is true some young women still see domestic work as a female duty (though I’d say majority doesn’t), but it’s not about being particularly submissive.
I don’t know about Russia, but in Serbia, women ARE strongly attached to one man in their lives: their fathers. He’s the only one she’ll let protect and take care of her, the one who will fight for her, and the only one she will listen. To all the other men in her life, she will appear as independent and strong minded (“you can’t mess with me” <- even if she agrees to cook and clean), and she will chose to leave her husband or a boyfriend and come back to her parents should a problem arise. So, her father is the only male figure she listens, and, also, it's the only male in her life she lets herself to truly depend and the only one she lets protect her. (Similar thing can be said about mother-son relationship, so there might be some truth to the stereotype about EE guys being very attached to their mothers).
Of course, what I wrote here is just a generalization, and as such, can't work in all the cases. But if you really need to go with a stereotype, this one might be a little closer to the truth. (Not that stereotypes are true, but this one at least take local cultural norms into account).
LikeLike
That’s really interesting info about the father/daughter relationship Mira.
We could use more of that here in the US that’s for sure.
Does divorce/ marital status effect that at all? is that much of an issue over there?
I think a lot of the problems young women in America have in regards to their relationships with men comes from a lack of healthy Father/daughter relationships.
LikeLike
Abagond,
I read your post on russian women, and I have some observations that I’d like to run by you.
1. The blonde-haired, blue-eyed white female is the exception to the rule, not the norm. The vast majority of attractive whitewomen in eastern europe are brunettes, not blonde. Eastern europe is heavily influenced by white arabs, persians, and turks……Think Romania and the Czech Republic.
2. Russia women are sought after by american and western european men because of their perceived racial purity. Whitemen can’t have it both ways……Whitewomen who look like real whitewomen are hard to find in white media, but, whitewomen who possess the (african phenotype), such as Heidi Klum, Cindy Crawford, and Natalie Portman make all of the money. Dark hair, almond-shaped eyes, wide elegant noses, full lips, and olive complexions are what young white females are drawn to. Whitemen can’t continue hating on brunettes, because of what their forefathers did in the past as it relates to blackwomen in Africa, India, and Hawaii.
3. The “White Female Beauty Myth” was created by whitemen during slavery and colonialism to brainwash blackmen into hating blackwomen and viewing them as undesirable. If whitemen truly loved whitwomen as much as they claim, Why would they pimp their own women for political and financial gain? A rational person would think otherwise. Make blackmen lust after whitewomen and their perceived superiority, while whitemen focus all of their attention on blackwomen. Blackwomen have “African DNA,” and thus, are more valuable to whitemen and other non-black men. Whitewomen may be a great f**k for most whitemen, but blackwomen have “DNA” most whitewomen and other non-blackwomen would kill for……Think Brazil, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Spain, Portugal, and Italy.
4. Russian women, and other whitewomen have to take the mask off, and live in the real world. Whitemen say they love whitewomen, but, where’s the proof of that? Whitewomen are catching hell in the US and abroad because of racial and sexual myths created by whitemen to influence the thinking of blackmen primarily, and it’s f**ked up to be blunt about it. My love and loyalty is for blackwomen on this planet, but, whitewomen gotta get their heads out of the sand, because the world is a different place now. Being white and female is not a “Lottery Ticket.”
Tyrone
The Skeptic
LikeLike
“Russia women are sought after by american and western european men because of their perceived racial purity.”
wow so perceptive. (eyeroll)
LikeLike
“Whitewomen who look like real whitewomen are hard to find in white media, but, whitewomen who possess the (african phenotype), such as Heidi Klum, Cindy Crawford, and Natalie Portman make all of the money”
Uhh…Heidi Klum has an African phenotype? This would be the same Heidi Klum with the narrow head, straight hair, aquiline nose, thin lips, skinny hips, relatively flat backside who looks like she would not have been out of place in a Leni Riefenstahl film?
I don’t see any African phenotypes in Klum..
LikeLike
“Whitewomen who look like real whitewomen are hard to find in white media, but, whitewomen who possess the (african phenotype), such as Heidi Klum, Cindy Crawford, and Natalie Portman make all of the money.”
AFRICAN phenotype???? (triple eye roll)
LikeLike
jas0nburns
That’s really interesting info about the father/daughter relationship Mira.
We could use more of that here in the US that’s for sure.
Eh. It depends. In a way, it’s a good thing, but it also makes girls spoiled and unable to be truly independent. What is funny to see are all those “independent” young women who will not hesitate to put a man, or any other person, to their place…
… but who run to their fathers as soon as there’s a trouble (or whenever something needs to be taken care of).
Now, not all father-daughter relationships are like that. But her father is usually the only man she truly listens.
Does divorce/ marital status effect that at all? is that much of an issue over there?
What do you mean is issue?
Marital status doesn’t seem to alter this relationship much. Here, it doesn’t really mean how old you are: you are your parents’ child forever. There should always be there to help you and support you. Only when they grow really old, you support and help them. Until then, you are free to turn to them for any problem you have in life, married or unmarried, 13 or 30. (Obviously, not all parents are like this, but it is set as an ideal).
LikeLike
@yahu: “I don’t think that Hitler believed in something called “The White Race””.
What??? Germanic race/true aryans? Men 180 cm tall, blond hair, blue eyes… What you would call that ideal? Purple? Green? Avatar blue???
@tyrone: I thin you really need to get back to school. Some history and geography lessons are due, man. “White” arab influence in east Europe?? Man, you are really laying it thick.
About the silnet type stereotype: Finns are considered by many to be silent nation. We supposedly are sour faced mutes who think silently suicides or something.
In reality, we have a culture, maybe from our hunting past or something, where you do not need to fill the silence with babling. If there is nothing to say, you don’t have to say anything. It is not considered rude, its the opposite around. If you talk all the time, that is considered rude.
So in elevators or buses, anywhere, you can have dozen people not talking at all. They may not even look at each other. That is not rude, that is respecting the others social privacy. And besides, why talk if there is nothing to talk about? No wonder we do not have the concept of small talk in Finland. We do have a concept of BS and usually small talk is understud to be the same as that. 😀
One american joke about finns: two finns were sitting in Central Park. Other took a sip from a bottle of vodka. He passed the bottle to the other. He took a sip. The other waited for a long time and then finallys said: “Can I have the bottle?” The other looked at his friend and said: “I belived we were here drinking, not bullshitting”.
LikeLike
“whitewomen who possess the (african phenotype), such as Heidi Klum, ”
Maybe if you consider Seal a possession.
LikeLike
“What do you mean is issue?”
I just meant is divorce as common in Serbia as in the States?
If a girls parents are divorced will she typically still have a strong relationship with her father?
LikeLike
“Uhh…Heidi Klum has an African phenotype? This would be the same Heidi Klum with the narrow head, straight hair, aquiline nose, thin lips, skinny hips, relatively flat backside who looks like she would not have been out of place in a Leni Riefenstahl film?”
cosigned. None of them screams African to me, but narrow heads aren’t African phenotype. What type of shape Africans are suppose to have?
“If a girls parents are divorced will she typically still have a strong relationship with her father?”
I think sometimes it’s for the best to spilt up. Kids can see unhappiness and I don’t think it’s healthy for kids to see their ‘rents fighting all the time.
LikeLike
Edit: None of them screams African to me, but narrow heads aren’t African phenotype ? Is their even a typical African or European phenotype ?
LikeLike
” think sometimes it’s for the best to spilt up. Kids can see unhappiness and I don’t think it’s healthy for kids to see their ‘rents fighting all the time.”
sure, that’s kind of a separate issue but OK.
LikeLike
“Is their even a typical African or European phenotype ?”
Of course there is!!!
For example, Black women have broad noses, big lips, tend to be larger, muscular, and a bit masculine, like this woman:
http://ebook-free-download.net/post/2010/10/18/African-Woman-Kenya-Edition-October-2010.aspx
LikeLike
“Black women have broad noses, big lips, tend to be larger, muscular, and a bit masculine, like this woman:”
Resse Witherspoon and Sarah Palin must be black, then because both got some big man jaws on them and mannish as hell. LOL. The women in the pic is so cute.
LikeLike
I just meant is divorce as common in Serbia as in the States?
Oh, that what you mean. I am a bit slow (must be because of my spring allergy and medicine. Blah)
I don’t know how common it is, but it’s not avoided at all costs, nor it is seen as something incredibly shameful. I have many friends whose parents are divorced (though not as many as those whose parents are still together). But there are certainly things that are more taboo than divorce (premarital sex NOT being one of them; it’s taken as a norm <- I mention this because people asked about it in another forum).
If a girls parents are divorced will she typically still have a strong relationship with her father?
Hmmm… Good question. I am not sure, but I guess yes. It’s not much of a strong relationship as much as it is protection. Despite all what I said, girls, usually, have much stronger connection with their mothers. But despite this- or because of this- their fathers are main protectors. You need money? Ask your dad. You need a favor? Ask your dad. You need job? Ask your dad (to find a connection- it’s almost impossible to find a job without it). Even divorced fathers can do this, and they do it.
Now, this is how things go in my country, and, as far as I can tell, it is like this in neighborhood countries, too. But I am not sure about Russia and central European countries that westerners see as “Eastern Europe” (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia).
LikeLike
Sam,
Stereotypes about Finns in my culture is that they’re quite loud… Gothic, man! Tarja Turunen! Pale but hot Gothic people all around!
LikeLike
“Stereotypes about Finns in my culture is that they’re quite loud… Gothic, man! Tarja Turunen! Pale but hot Gothic people all around!”
If that’s true, I’m going there now!!!!! Hot pale gothic men! Squee. There’s almost none in Chicago!!
LikeLike
@ MIra
It sounds like what you’re describing is what I imagine it was like here before the baby boomers fuc*ed everything up. I think the concept of fatherhood was eroded quite a bit by the time the baby-boomers became parents. Most of the friends I grew up with didn’t have fathers around or barely around. Myself included.
LikeLike
@usagi: http://www.tuska-festival.fi/
Wellcome.
@mira: yes, finns are loud, when drunk or mentally instabel 😀
Well, actually, this differs aournd the country. In the north the saami people are considered to be outgoing and social, but then in north east, Kajaani and around there, babbling is considered a sign of weakness. In the eastern parts people tend to be more talkative and of course, carelians are the ones who never shut up 😀
Also, the myth of silent finns comes from the days before we learned other langauages.
LikeLike
@ Sam: Double squee!!! So much beauty!
LikeLike
@ sam:
Lots of excellent metal bands at that festival! I’ll have to check them against my lists, though. I, being an intelligent metal fan, am a proud member of “Metalheads Against Nazis”. The best metal-fest to attend, IMHO, is the annual “Grind the Nazi Scum” concert lineup.
Racism shouldn’t be spread through the glory that is music! Hell, it shouldn’t be spread at all, but…c’est la vie!
😎
LikeLike
Back to the thread itself: I worked at a county office a few years ago (welfare for seniors and physically/mentally ‘disabled’ people), and a good majority of the people applying for assistance were brand-new Russian immigrants. The only IDs they would provide were their passports, and they would always ask for the sole Russian caseworker in the office. They weren’t disabled or elderly, but they had their hands out for all of the free money and services they’d heard that America provides! 🙄
The other, more common name for the ‘Petra’ stereotype is ‘Natasha’ – that seems to be the common name chosen by the Russian mail-order brides, as far as I know.
LikeLike
They seem to have a good sense of humour.
LikeLike
@sepultra; Tuska (=Pain) Festival has been organised for years without any mishaps. Despite of international crowd, heavy metal and drinking, hard partying, it is know as one of the most peaceful summer events in Finland. To my knowledge there has never been a real fight, mugging etc. there.
Neo nazi crap in pitiful and usually some younger black metal kids get sveyed with some stuff like that. Not that it is serious issue. The black metal racists try to be pagan and dig norse gods etc. and some think that nazis were something similar, but usually when kids grow up, nazi crap drops away. Those who are into that kind of nazi sneeze drop the music, because it is antinazi in its core; anarchic, critical, loud, loaded with humor and most of all: it is FUN. 😀 These are all elements that go against the nazi idea of orderly society.
I saw a document where some malesian metal bands and guys were pretty antisemitic and openly racists and I was like, WTF?? They seemed to confuse WP rock with metal. Go figure.
LikeLike
Somebody needs to write a post on “Stereotypes about Americans” 😀
(And then Finns, of course :P)
It might as well be me. lol
LikeLike
A Wendy’s commercial stereotyping Russians/women
LikeLike
Mira said:
“Somebody needs to write a post on “Stereotypes about Americans” 😀
(And then Finns, of course 😛 )
It might as well be me. lol”
If you write it, I will post it.
LikeLike
“Petra is submissive, a possible housewife who takes care of the children, cooks, and cleans – a dream come true to American white men who bemoan the loss of the stereotypical submissive 1950s American housewife.”
Is ethnicity really a factor? I think it’s only about sexism and men (regardless where they live) tend to believe that women in other parts of the world are more friendly, submissive, etc.
LikeLike
Yes, men are sexists, but there’s more to it. They tend to view women outside their group differently than their “own” women.
There are two common ways to look at women outside their group:
1. They are seen as oversexed and loose.
2. They are seen as more feminine, and closer to the “real women”.
Pretty similar to racist views of the “others”. (Wild savages- Noble savages dichotomy).
LikeLike
I suppose the major problem is that people tend to concentrate on differences and deliberately ignore the similarities we all have.
LikeLike
@ Olufemi
I think it’s more about male desire than any true observation. Men project their fantasies of what they want from ALL women onto the exotic “other,”simply because they are unknown and therefor a blank slate of possibilities. It’s basically a revelry in wishful thinking like the song, Big Rock Candy Mountains.
“In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
You never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol
Come trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats
And the railway bulls are blind
There’s a lake of stew
And of whiskey too
You can paddle all around it
In a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains”
LikeLike
@ King
Well, “exotic” is relative. It’s a bit like the fact that learning a third or fourth etc language is much easier when you already know 2 or 3 etc. The keyword is exposure…
LikeLike
@ Sam, do you think Matti Nykänen has a influence on the typical Finnish steriotype?
LikeLike
@King
You said the average black women is larger and masculine. Well, the picture of the woman you posted as an example of the “masculine, large black woman” was very thin and quite beautiful. Are you serious? You are joking right? Well, most of the black women in the world live in Africa. The average African women is small, not larger. In fact, the average African woman is probably smaller than the average white American female. American women, both black and white, tend to be on the large side because of their unhealthy eating habits. There probably aren’t alot of Mcdonalds and KFC’s in Africa so the women in Africa don’t have a choice but to eat a leaner diet. Most of the African women that I have seen in pictures are in fact very thin and quite beautiful. You must be talking about American women. Another thing, American black women were not always this unhealthy. There was a time when most black American women were much thinner, as recently as 30 years ago. So the American black women you see today are a product of an unhealthy lifestyle. It is not genetic. Physical beauty is a result of having healthy eating habits, healthy lifestyles (such as exercising), and a healthy attitude. Race is not a factor.
LikeLike
@King
I just realize you must be joking. There is no way a man can look at the woman in that picture and think she is masculine or large. If it was sarcasm, then my bad. I find your sense of humor refreshing!!
LikeLike
It reminds me of a woman I work with. She’s from somewhere in eastern Europe and migrated here during the ’90s. She’s a mixture of “Petra” and “Olga”. She has the looks and some nature of a “Petra”: fairly attractive, which throws off the age-guessing and borderline diva. She does, however, have that “Olga” in her if you cross her the wrong way (sharp retorts, tom-boyish, etc.). I do agree that most Russian and eastern European features are seen in a different light when shown to the so-called West, which, I think, deals with their close proximity to “Asia” and Turkey, just to name a few places. As with the co-worker, she has brunette hair, hazel eyes, heavy accent, and facial features that you don’t normally see around my way. Interesting…:/
LikeLike
@ML: well, finnish athletes have always kept our reputation in high order. Here is former formula 1 world champion and international jet setter during his holiday in home country on his million dollar (actually two million dollars) yacht:
LikeLike
I want to thank you Abagond for putting up my post. Thank you.
LikeLike
@Sam good to see It’s not only Matti who takes responsebility for the finnish reputation.
It works, some years ago I worked as doorman in a nightclub in Norway. Everyone had to pay covercharge to get in, exept tourists and hockeyfans from finland. They had done some statistic showing that the avarage finn was drinking for about 1200,- Norwegian Kroners pr. hour (about 220 US$)
LikeLike
@ML: 😀
LikeLike
Haha! Awesome article! I’m Russian and I see these stereotypes in every day life. Good, very good article. Very true and applies to the most Americans! I absolutely love it!
LikeLike
Sadly comrades I live in a share house with Russian female. She hyper-educated and hyper-sensitive.
When I suggested I might be of assistance with here English speaking (very heavy accent Comrades) she became very angry. After this, slamming doors, knocking on windows late at night, refuses to speak again.
She acts so beautiful and kind and gentle to here husband but has only poison for me.
How glad I am I don’t have to wake up next to this creature who talks with two tongues…and yes, with a heavy Russian accent.
When her husband was away in Jakata she went to the coast and was seriously partying. Husband hasn’t found out yet.
LikeLike
My family is from the Ukraine, and they actually do fit the stereotype of being blonde and very pretty quite well. My grandparents brought most of their Russian and Ukrainian immigrant friends and family to Los Angeles with them from Argentina, where many Eastern Europeans had immigrated to. The comment about talking loudly and fast is true, and my grandma used to lose it and start to yell in a mix of Ukrainian and Spanish. They are also hilarious. All of my aunts and uncles have a great sense of humor 🙂 My grandpa had his share of jokes too. My aunt works her butt off and also is super affectionate and giving towards her child and niece and nephew, so that is quite like the “traditions” comment about Eastern European women. The American stereotype that we don’t smile or laugh much is somewhat true, because I never saw my grandparents give off a fake smile- they often wore the “hardened” look, and rightly so, since they had been through a lot.
LikeLike
Well, the name Petra does not even exist not only in Russia, but in the entire Eastern Europe…
Regards,
Blue-eyed and blond Olga
LikeLike
Ya’ll forgot figure skating.
LikeLike
There is growing steriotyping and profiling about Russian speaking community. What are the roots?
LikeLike
I would rather have the tough/olga soviet stereotype rather than the prostitute/materialistic/Petra stereotype.
LikeLike
Asian eyes not common even among russian Tatars, for ethnic russian its just impossible. 2/3 of ethnic russians have gray/blue eyes. Almost everytime when you talk with russian speaker who is darker than light brown hair – he/she is mixed or non-ethnic russian. Russian speaker does not mean ethnic russian, fact that around 3/4 worldwide immigrants (westerners call them russians) are not russians, mostly ukrainians and jews. Poor eastern european women little bit different from their russian counterparts, main factor is Moscow – the worldwide billionaires capital. Russians prefer move to there or to London, luxury life – very attractive to russian soul 😉 Ironically but most americans and west europeans can not afford live in Moscow, because its also the world’s most expensive city 😉 East european girls materialistic? Who said this?, most materialistic nation in the world – the USA. The main difference, american women obsessed with lawyers and doctors, while poor eastern european girls from small cities could take even a redneck, first ones do it for social class and future alimony, second ones do it for passport. Again ironically but soviet Olga stereotype now fit much more to american woman: huge, rude, looks like man without beard, however with a fake smile on a face, soviet Olga never smiles 🙂
LikeLike
When I came to South Africa 17 years ago (and South Africa is 90% Third World Country) this nice white lady asked me if I knew what coffee was and another tried to explain to me how to work a video recorder. I am Olga in my heart (though I look like Petra). I do change my own tyres, open my own pickle jars and think men are good for nothing. And yes, I love booze (though it is ouzo not vodka).
LikeLike
I am russian girl! and it is very funny to read all this stuff!!! I am PETRA surely)))
LikeLike
That’s so true Slavic women are soo gorgeous! I found lots of charming Russian Belarussian and Ukrainian ladies on Globo Girls. And even met one already.
LikeLike
[…] these same assumptions about Russian women before you started dating them. Here is a list of top Russian women stereotypes. As you get to know them better, you will know for yourself if there is some truth to the […]
LikeLike
What’s that name Petra?!! Russians never give their children such names if they don’t want to seem.. extraordinary… or smth like that.
There’re both types of women in Russia except of that ‘Petra’ drinks vodka. I’d rather say she prefers mochito or martini. A modern ‘Petra’ s more like an ‘overglamoured’ girl spoilt by western feministic tradition. Yuck!
But if we talk about these 2 types, ‘Olga’ and ‘Petra’, then the truth is somewhere in the middle if not on the side of ‘Olga’ taking into account that most Russians are at the bottom of society…
But there’re okay girls, of course.. not very different from normal westerners. But still a little bit more attractive though going out wearing a faded color t-shirt or a stretched sweater is getting kind of okay if not stylish. But that’s another story.
LikeLike
I have to admit that Western men love Russian women. I mean, Russian women are the most stunning women on this planet. There are no ugly Russian women, you know? I mean, Russian women are tall and in excellent shape. What else do you need from a girl? Hope it helps.
LikeLike
@Russian
“There are no ugly Russian women, you know? I mean, Russian women are tall and in excellent shape.”—It took me a matter of 5 seconds to find pictures to counter this claim. LOL
LikeLike
Don’t believe the hype. There is beautiy and ugly in all races, cultures of women.
LikeLike
correction beauty
LikeLike
I have heard men go on and on about Russian women and how sexy they are.
LikeLike
Joan Rivers has Russian parentage. I remember she said so once.
LikeLike
Helen Mirren, too. I think her real name is Mirronoffsky or something.
LikeLike
@mary burrell
I hear it at times (mainly tv) but I just recently saw the other side of that doing a little search. lol
LikeLike
Had to look at up Joan rivers before the surgery. No comment
LikeLike
@ Sharina: LOL!!!
LikeLike
@ mary, Sharina, I’ve heard it said in Turkey.
There was a time when Russian women were trafficked there in the 1980s. Most of the women were educated, and and part of the way they were marketed was that they were “sexy” prostitutes. They are usually called “Natashas”, another way of saying “Russian Prostitute”.
Some of them married Turkish men.
LikeLike
An article about the generation of children born from those relationships:
(http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tr.aspx?pageID=238&nID=36230)
LikeLike
Thanks for the link
LikeLike
Actually Sharina, it is Ethiopian women who have the reputation for being the most beautiful.
LikeLike
@phoebeprunelle
That is some interesting bit of information. Thanks.
LikeLike
[…] frequently involve an explicit fetishization. In contrast, Americans also paint Russian women as being hideously asexual—devoid of womanly curves, dressed in outdated fashions, missing the benefits of Western […]
LikeLike
Actually Olga is a beautiful slender and sexy girls
LikeLike
[…] That’s the best I could find […]
LikeLike
These days, young Russian women (like Irina Shayk) look like Petra but are secretly Olgas inside. They have perfected all the feminine airs but are pretty much ruthless in pursuing their quarry–be it a successful man or a successful career. I find Irina Shayk to be very impressive. Take a look at how she handles David Letterman, who is notoriously sexist and condescending to attractive young women, on his show. Irina schooled him and showed that man his place!!
LikeLike
Shady_Grady
Uhh…Heidi Klum has an African phenotype?
———————————————————————————————-
The short answer is YES.
When someone says a particular black person has “Asian features” or “white features”…
they are reading the book “upside down”; ALL the features, specifically skull and facial were in Africans first, and they still are today because Africans are a much older population and had much more time to diversify. A random mutation does NOT produce new information anymore than adding noise improves a signal.
The information was there from the beginning.
There is a good reason why some black people look like they have Asian or White features– its because thats where Asian and White people come from.
White people have known this for quite some time.
* If you didn’t know now you know _____ *
LikeLike
These are n.o.t. stereotypes 🙂
LikeLike
@Abagond
You forgot that Olga is usually very to morbidly obese and works the plough very hard make her ‘Vagine’ hang like ‘sleeve of wizard’.
LikeLike