This post is based partly on “The Privilege Mindset” at Will Capers’s blog Blaque Ink:
The white privilege mindset is the way of thinking that grows out of having white privilege, from the advantages of being white in America.
Which of these statements are true:
- There is no such thing as white privilege.
- Blacks like to complain.
- Blacks are their own worst enemy, not white people or their supposed racism.
- Blacks need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps just like everyone else.
- I made it on my own, I did not get any special favours. Why should blacks?
- If anything, blacks have it easier than whites, what with affirmative action and all.
- Affirmative action is unfair to whites.
- Whites are a better judge of whether something is racist than blacks are. Blacks are oversensitive.
- It is unfair to have a Black History Month when there is no White History Month.
- Blacks are just as racist as whites.
Count up the number of true statements and multiply by ten. That is the chance out of 100 that you have a white privilege mindset.
Not all the statements are necessarily untrue. And it is not just white people who say them. But they all fit a white privilege mindset, so whites are the ones most likely to make them and defend them strongly.
That is no accident: the statements make the most sense to someone who has never experienced racism, to someone who can take white privilege for granted.
White History Month is the clearest example. From Patrick Henry’s “Give me liberty or give me death” to “manifest destiny” to America as “the great melting pot”, American history is not merely taught from a white point of view, it is taught as if blacks, Mexicans and Native Americans do not truly count as people. White History Month is the month that never ends.
That is pretty easy to see if you are black. But whites are so used to having everything told from their point of view – from history to news to Hollywood films – that many fail to see it as a point of view at all.
Affirmative action is the same way: whites are so used to being favoured in the labour market that they fail to see it as white affirmative action.
How to have a white privilege mindset:
- Notice any small advantage blacks have while overlooking the even greater advantages of whites.
- Blame all disadvantages blacks suffer from on them.
- Use the Anything But Racism argument as needed.
- Discount anything black people say. Only take what white people say seriously.
- Never try to see anything from a black point of view.
You can replace “black” with “Latino”, “Native American”, “Muslim” and so on.
In fact, you can pretty much replace “white” and “black” with any privileged/marginalized pair: rich and poor, male and female, straight and gay, Christian and Jew, etc. Because it is not so much about race but power and how power affects thinking.
See also:
- white privilege
- American privilege – a good example of another privileged mindset
- American privilege – a good example of another privileged mindset
- How to become a white racist – yes, there is more to it than just a white privilege mindset
- Derailing for Dummies
- How to tell if a commenter is white, part II
- Mighty Whitey – a kind of story that those with a white privilege mindset love to hear
- darkies
- Fanon: The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized
All I can say is…very well said.
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Basically, this mindset is one of the worst ways to paint yourself into a corner, especially on this rock called Earth, given the demographics and actual history (not the whitewashed version).
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I am so damn tired of that whole “If there were a White History month that would be racist” I really hate that.
Everytime a white person says to me that having a black magazine, TV station, organisation, university etc. is racist
I remember in my media class this white girl said how it was racist to have a seperate black and asian magazine and if there were a magazine only for white women that would be racist.
My Teacher who is black laughed at her for a good twenty minutes. He was red in the face, walked out to get a cup of tea and a came back laughing but when he settled down, he gave her a copy of Elle magazine from the library and told her to look in the pages to see if she could find somebody who was not white. She found none.
The reason why black and asian women have magazines that cater to them is becasue the “mainstream” code name white, do not cater to them. They rarely include models of colour on their covers or in their pages, So how will these women of colour get hair and make-up tips when they see no one of their skin tone or hair texture? They do not discuss issues that are important to us, or apply to us. I mean what am I going to to do with info on how to stop my tan from looking orange?
So instead of seeing all these white “mainstream” magazines that have little desire to include us. We have our own that cater to us.
When he was done explaining to her she looked all embarassed, she thought the “mainstream” magz were “normal” and the black and asian ones were racist and excluding.
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You know what Aiyo….I’m tired of that bullshit too.
What these people fail to realize is if mainstream media (better know as white supremacist media) would be equal with people of color, there wouldnt be no need for Miss Black America Pagents, Black publications, and so on. White people can be so retarted.
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Aiyo:
Beautiful example. Thank you.
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Excellent example, Aiyo – perfectly stated!
One thing I note, especially in my neck of the woods, has to do with crimes and how they’re reported or punishments levied. Case in point: two white men (father and son) bombed a local bank, killing two officers and one civilian, and maiming three others. The jury took quite a while to hand down the death penalty for both. When interviewed afterwards, jury members said things like: “We hoped that at least one of them would show remorse – that way, we would have known that they could have been ‘saved’!” WTF does that mean?!? Why are they worthy of being SAVED?!? They KILLED PEOPLE, deliberatly, with extreme malice aforethought!
The trial of a young African immigrant (Somalian), who was entrapped by the FBI for a supposed ‘terrorist bomb plot’, hasn’t started yet, but I can easily imagine what those selfsame jurors would say about him, since he’s Muslim…he’s already been tried in public via the media, of course. A side note on that; in Spokane, WA on Monday, a sophisticated pipe bomb was left near a parade route where families and children were celebrating Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. City workers noticed it about an hour before the parade was about to start, so the parade was re-routed while the bomb squad detonated it and took the evidence away for examination. The white privelege here would be the fact that whites can gather anywhere with no fears (unless the fears are their own, paranoid ones).
Another example is the fact that whites can adopt any child from any country with few to no questions asked, but non-whites are only allowed to adopt “their own kind”.
I could go on and on, but I fear I’d go off on a non-topic tangent…
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Blacks are oversensitive.
This is a classic! I lodged a complaint against a co-worker, for calling me by another black person’s name. Apparently this was a honest mistake by this man, that is what is claimed at any rate. This is a common occurrence, not being able to tell black people apart. Now, many may say this is not something to be commented on, but if done on a daily basis or even frequently, it may begin to grate on your nerves. It is a micro-assault, a subtle form of racism to let one know that you are of no consequence as a group and you are all the same. In other words, you are dehumanized.
They have a so-called system in place at this work site to combat racist behaviour. Well I heartily enjoy using this system, so I used it again in regards to this co-worker. A preliminary investigation was conducted where the investigator concluded that my human rights have been infringed. The investigator even asked one of the witnesses , what could be done as this was systemic in nature(calling people out of their name). Anyhow, this happened several months ago, and I have not heard from any of these clowns, in regards to the investigation outcome. More fun and games are in store for these clowns as I will be going to an outside agency to get results. Bad publicity has an positive effect, also, thank god they are dumb, you win every time!
Guess what kind of reception I got? It was very interesting! The kerchief heads ran for cover, the more timid racialized people buried, bury their head in the sand, the whites make pretend that they are not aware of my complaints whilst whispering about it amongst their own, ‘allies’, pull you aside and tell you what is being said. Not a one has dared to ask me face to face what caused me to lodge such a complaint! I have not been treated differently as I have also let it be known that I would tear anyone a second a**hole who seek to react negatively to my complaint.
The frig who I complained against, has been walking around with a beleaguered woeful look about his countenance. Funnily enough, people who disliked him and thought him to be a weirdo before, are now expressing sympathy for him. Most if not all of his sympathizers are white, no surprise there, as they could be in the same boat as he finds himself. That is probably what they fear. “I can’t make ignorant thinly veiled racist remarks to anyone with impunity anymore, sniff, schnooka sniff!” Think again a**holes! I have already had experiences going after these folks in management after experiencing their incompetence first hand in a criminal case, ongoing, to this day. It involved death threats and threats of assault etc, which the management let get out of hand. This has been going on for six years! Their privilege and pocketbook, would not let them admit that there was rampant racism within the work site(they are dumb that way). Doing so was, is like pulling teeth. Oh yeah, us blacks are oversensitive was the theme of the day, as to why I lodged the complaint to start. On to round 2!
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The really sad part is that some Black people and other people of color have been brainwashed to believe things like;
“Blacks like to complain.”
“Blacks are their own worst enemy, not white people or their supposed racism.”
“Blacks need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps just like everyone else.”
I read comments from Black people all the time on many different sites that reflect a belief in the views above. So many Black people and others of color have allowed their minds to be colonized and now they parrot the views of White privilege.
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“White people can be so retarted.”
^ I’m the last person to talk about grammar but this is funny.
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If these people
http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2011/01/18/tn-tea-party-goes-to-war-against-history/
have their way, white privilege will be formalized.
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Count up the number of true statements and multiply by ten. That is the chance out of 100 that you have a white privilege mindset.
According to this, I have 10% chance of having a white privilege mindset. (I do believe blacks are as racist as whites; I believe people of today, in general, are racist).
I think it’s all down to what Aiyo wrote. Whites tend to see themselves as defaults, neutrals, naturals, etc. So whenever they, and they only benefit from something, it’s not a “white privilege”, but something that is “universal”, etc.
Although I wouldn’t mind calling mainstream fashion magazines “white women magazines”. Why not? It’s what they are, after all.
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Mirjana,
You do not like Stephenie Meyer?! Wow. I’m just surprised because she’s a popular author in the U.S. (at least among teen girls). What was the reaction/response to the Twilight books/movies in your country?
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One’s mindset, as well as their perspective is largely a product of one’s experiences. We can’t avoid this – we don’t create or control much of what happens to us. However, in many cases, a person’s mindset is made up exclusively from what they have experienced, learned or observed. Unless we each make a conscious choice to look beyond our own opinions and attempt to consider other people as individuals of comparable value, we will be limited to these opinions and resulting prejudices.
The conscious choice of how you will interpret your world and everyone in it is up to each one of us to make. I have chosen to see “people”, but it’s not as simple as choosing this perspective and everything else follows. I am still heavily influenced by my own experiences and opinions formed by these experiences. These opinions will be prejudices if I allow it – if I were to fail to continue to make a conscious choice to pursue one of the greatest dreams ever dreamed: To judge others on the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin, or the car they drive, or the language they speak.
If I follow your percentage theory, then I am one privileged white bastard and I am delighted to be that way. The survey is a bit silly in that it generalizes, when the whole problem is that we generalize in society and that leads to privileged views and behaviours. I cannot support any exclusively “black” publication, or TV station, or beauty contest. To those who insist that such things are vital in a privileged white society, I’ll cite a few examples:
1984 – Vanessa Williams wins the Miss America pageant.
2008 – Obama becomes president. Oprah is a billionaire.
(I’m sure there are notable examples which occurred between 1984 and 2008, but I can’t think of any at the moment. It’s likely that I was too busy being white and privileged to really notice…)
I know there are unbalanced scales. Nobody ever says “Not bad for a white guy” unless he’s awesome at basketball or he’s Eminem. I just don’t believe the way to balance them is to lower admission standards to universities for “people of colour”.
My own mixed race son, at the tender age of 15, declared an afro-centric high school to be a “racist concept” because it is set up to exclude. That was three years ago. At 18, he’s already been pulled over at least twice as many times as his white daddy has in his entire life. He says the black officers give him the hardest time… So far he’s got only one ticket to show for it. So do I enjoy “privilege” when I pull out of my driveway?
Ignorance is the true enemy.
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@Aiyo:
First of all, the mainstream media is not intentionally racist. So many university profs and intellectuals think that the American media is a tool used to “dumb down” the middle class and make them conform to the social standards they dictate.
Being involved in media I can tell you the only thing they care about is money. They do not tell people what to buy – it’s the opposite – people tell them what to sell. White people are the majority population and have the most money. Therefore, they are the most targeted audience. You think white people would buy magazines full of black models?
Conversely, that’s why magazines were created specifically aimed at blacks. Research showed they were more likely to buy magazines that involved black people instead of whites. It’s only recently (and it took the market a while to catch on) that blacks had a purchasing power that was worth catering to.
Today, blacks are overrepresented in the media. Yes, that’s right, professors usually are a little behind the times. Considering the black population and average income, the media makes a surprising effort to include black people in anything they can. I like the profs question “try to find one black person in this magazine..” I ask you try to find one commercial on TV that DOESN’T have a black person in it.
At the same time, where are the Hispanics? And the most, completely forgotten group of all, Native Americans. Ever see them on TV? Hmmm, what ever happened to them…
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“At the same time, where are the Hispanics? And the most, completely forgotten group of all, Native Americans. Ever see them on TV? Hmmm, what ever happened to them…”
You can’t “see” a hispanic, because hispanic is a culture, not a color. As for Native Americans, how would you know if you are seeing them or not? I see brown people with dark hair in commercials… of course they’re not wearing face paint and war bonnets.
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DWR said:
“If I follow your percentage theory, then I am one privileged white bastard and I am delighted to be that way. The survey is a bit silly in that it generalizes, when the whole problem is that we generalize in society and that leads to privileged views and behaviours.”
I am not calling anyone a bastard, much less determining whether they delight in it. What I am saying is that those who believe most of those statements to be true are most likely seeing the world in a way that is shaped by and suits white interests. For anyone who wants to see people as people and not according to race, that should be a cause for concern.
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@ DWR:
You might find this post interesting:
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planet9,
The way marketing operates is worth noticing, but I don’t think things really work that way. People generally care (and, in this case, buy) stuff that concern them, or their group. However, it’s not as simple.
Namely, whites are not as opposed to buying/watching products that have people of other races in them. Not as much as some marketing experts think. This is particularly apparent in movie industry. Wievers do NOT want to watch only white straight males in leading roles. This is especially true when a source material requires people of colour, but Hollywood refuses to cast them in lading roles. Just remember the “Avatar the last Airbender” fail. There were many whites who complained about the casting. Furthermore, films and tv shows with diverse cast and (meaningful) non-white characters tend to attract the audience. Both white and non-white.
Ok, but that’s just media. How about other products? while it’s true it’s difficult to market black women hair product to white women, the same can’t be said about other non-race related products. Yes, whites like to see themselvesall over the place, and they do, but I am not quite convinced no white person would buy a product that had black people in commercial.
Now, I am not a marketing expert, but wouldn’t my first goal be to expand market as much as I can? To make both white and non-white people buy my product? I want to make as much money as I can, after all.
The point is, (and yes, my example covers mostly media, but it’s an imporant example), whites are not as againsts seeing non-white people as “experts” believe. Nor are men about seeing women. Etc, etc. Remember the Bechdel test? (Both original and race version?) That’s what I’m talking about.
Just because most of the people in charge are white, straight, AMERICAN males doesn’t mean they truly and accurately represent most of the consumers. All I can say they fail miserably in marketing to other cultures (mine, for example), as well as to other genders.
Calculator,
Teenage girls in my country like Twilight, and have a crush on main male character. But the main difference between here and the US is that there are no adult fans of the book here. There seem to be a lot of US females in their 30s who adore Twilight (Twi-moms). Not here. It’s seen as a (trashy) literature for teenage girls. One of the reason adult women in my culture are not crazy about Twilight is that the abstinence message of the novel is not something we value or see as important (and it seems to be what Twi-moms make believe the series have a good value… There are no abstinence programs in my culture and it’s not seen as an important point).
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@Mira
I never get why Mothers loved off Twilight so much in the US, I don’t know maybe it appeals to some sort of Romeo and Juliet fantasy but then again they sexed at least once before they died. True Blood hell yeah I watch that violence and sex every episode. LOL
I am glad you also brought up the Last Airbender becasue for the white people who were outraged there were many whites who thought there was nothing wrong with it. I saw a comment left on my deviantart page that if the film would have all Asian/Inuit leads that would be equally racist.
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“In fact, you can pretty much replace “white” and “black” with any privileged/marginalized pair: rich and poor, male and female, straight and gay, Christian and Jew, etc. Because it is not so much about race but power and how power affects thinking.”
Again, another great post. Definitely the take home message for me. My question here is can there ever be a true balance of power in the US society or is that just an Utopian concept?
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@ Agabond:
I did not mean to imply anyone was calling me a bastard – I was mocking the presumptuousness of generalizing in this manner and how it parallels the same ignorance that produces a privileged mentality.
I read your link. I’m sorry your folks weren’t more pragmatic. (You only mention your mother, so was dad AWOL?) If you want to know where I’m coming from, you may find this post equally interesting:
Incidentally, I did the survey on my son (the 18-year old young fellow of mixed racial heritage) and he scored 30% – he agreed strongly with statements #2, 4 and 10 if I recall correctly. He seemed to most strongly disagree with the “white privilege perspective” on Black History month.
Advice for you: Focus on the individuals in your life who have value in your eyes and add value to your life. I have had friends, black and white alike, who have their own racial biases and hang-ups. Some of them brought very little to the friendships, while others have changed my life in meaningful ways despite their flaws.
Love the people around you and demonstrate how you wish to be treated by the manner in which you treat them. Every last one of us bleeds the same colour of blood, returns to the dust when we die, and stands before our creator individually. Very few of us will ever gain the opportunity to revolutionize society, but every last one of us can change the world within our immediate influence every single day.
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In America you see more blacks in ads than in television shows or Hollywood films. Blacks are less stereotyped in ads too. It is pretty close to what you would expect from “market forces” and all that.
Hollywood films, on the other hand, seem to be mostly shaped by a white American male view of the world. For example, nearly all the leads are played by white men, yet white males make up only a third of country. Paramount has made like only one film in the past ten years with a black female lead. Hollywood’s output is way whiter than America itself. Simple demographics or market forces do not account for it.
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What film was that Abagond?
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Aiyo,
Twilight is badly written and unimaginative. On top of that, it’s also (unintentionally?) sexist and racist. So I really don’t get its popularity. There are fanfictions written by 13 year old girls that are much better than Twilight series!
As for “The Last Airbender”, I didn’t make myself clear. I wasn’t trying to imply whites, on general, were as outraged as non-whites, or that they equally care. However, there were many who disliked the casting choice. There were enough of them to make a difference. How do I know? Because the message was heard, and many people argued about it. Sadly, I am not sure if that would had happened if those were non-whites who complained. There are many other movies, more serious, more important ones, that were completely whitewashed or offensive, and even though POC complained, nobody cared.
This is another bad thing: whites won’t listen until other whites tell them. That’s why guys like Tim Wise are so popular. They don’t really say anything new, or radical. All they have is their skin colour, so whites listen. (I think this issue is what Thad tried to argue, but people didn’t listen… Still, I think it’s a valid criticism).
Note that whites who wanted POC cast in “The Last Airbender” were not necessarily anti-racist activists or advocates of equality. I could even argue most of them didn’t even care about racial issues: they were simply fans of the animated show and they wanted characters portrayed like they were in the show. There’s nothing profound about it, and it’s certainly not a sign of them being anti-racist. However, it does prove an important point, marketing-wise. At least when it comes to movies, whites as not as opposed to seeing non-whites as producers believe them to be.
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Aiyo said:
“What film was that Abagond?”
“Last Holiday” (2006) starring Queen Latifah and LL Cool J.
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DWR said:
“I did not mean to imply anyone was calling me a bastard – I was mocking the presumptuousness of generalizing in this manner and how it parallels the same ignorance that produces a privileged mentality. “
How so?
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@Abagond
oh yeah, I liked that film, I going to find it online somewhere.
@Mira
Yeah that does seem to be the case
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@DWR
“…Very few of us will ever gain the opportunity to revolutionize society, but every last one of us can change the world within our immediate influence every single day…”
How does making changes within or influencing our own immediate worlds NOT QUALIFY as a way to revolutionize our society?
Disregarding, ignoring, denying or paying “lip service” to insights gained through reading topics like this post; then failing to incorporate them into your own personal life experiences discourages changes and actively promotes the racist status quo of the society we all can influence.
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This post also reminds me of the fact that the Privilege Denying Dude tumblr has been taken down not once (in its original inception), but TWICE (when another tumblr attempting to continue the meme was recently deactivated). White people hate hearing these kinds of things about themselves, no matter how scathingly true they usually are. smh
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Abagond, everyone,
I thought you all might be interested in the formation of a “Black” Tea party over in Houston, TX; I just got word about it last night, and have written a bit about it here:
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/60713
Also, for those interested in having an honest discussion about Race in light of the recent MLK national holiday, I present such a discussion here:
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/60713
Comment and reply invited!
O.
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Almost every comment here suggests a racist mindset on those posting. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Many of these posters are expressing racist stereotypes about “whites” and, rather than being chided for maintaining the us vs. them mentality, they are often encouraged to, in effect, keep hate alive. Nice work, racists.
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“This is a classic! I lodged a complaint against a co-worker, for calling me by another black person’s name. Apparently this was a honest mistake by this man, that is what is claimed at any rate. This is a common occurrence, not being able to tell black people apart. Now, many may say this is not something to be commented on, but if done on a daily basis or even frequently, it may begin to grate on your nerves. It is a micro-assault, a subtle form of racism to let one know that you are of no consequence as a group and you are all the same. In other words, you are dehumanized.”
Take a more relaxed attitude. Alot of people slip up like this. I did this once to an Indian-American guy by accident.I think there’s a general tendency for people not to be able to individuate members of out-groups as well as their own group.
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an example is memebee.com this forum constantly whine and cry everytime i condemn racism from white posters
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Abagond,
Everything that we as black people have been taught about race has been a lie. Deconstructing slavery and colonialism is the primary mission going forward. Black people have the truth and facts on our side, What we do with the info is the $64,000 question?
Aquarius Vision/20/20 Vision
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Mirjana,
HVALA STO TI VRATILA MOJ PITONJE. OCIM AMERICANCI TALAVIZIA, JELI ONI IMA JAPONCE CRTANI (ANIME) U TVOJ ZEMLA?
(See? Even Americans can learn another language!)
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Take a more relaxed attitude.
I do take a relaxed attitude as I type up my complaints.
I think there’s a general tendency for people not to be able to individuate members of out-groups as well as their own group.
Yes it`s called racism and intra-racism
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@kwamla:
“Disregarding, ignoring, denying or paying “lip service” to insights gained through reading topics like this post; then failing to incorporate them into your own personal life experiences discourages changes and actively promotes the racist status quo of the society we all can influence.”
Damn well said! You can read all you want, be as right and politically correct as you want, but if you do not live by the way you belive, you are no better than any of those guys who advocate racism openly. You just let it happen. So change yourselves and it starts from there. More we change, more the world will change and one day, maybe, blogs like these wont be no more. Not because they are not good, but because they are no longer needed. Can we do it? Yes we can, at least in ourselves.
I personally refuse to measure or merit a man by the skin of his color. I refuse to make up my mind about a woman by the color of her skin. I refuse to say “them”. I refuse to see other people as a mass of different “race”. They are all individuals, good and bad, nice and rude, smart and dumb, better and worse, just like me. We are more a like than anything else on this planet and nothing will make me hate anybody because of the color of skin.
I have lived like that all my adult years. I have met nice people and not so nice people all over the world in all colors imaginable. I know that regardless of our skin color, we are all humans, all the same race. We all love the same way, we cry the same way, we get mad the same way, we eat the same way, we hurt the same way etc. We are humans, humanbeings. You and I, like it or not.
Thus ends the sermon of this day, may you all go in peace and be racists no more! Peace! 😀
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Couldn’t help myself: Lola Odusoga-Wallinkoski, Miss Finland 1996 and second runner up in Miss Universe too, recalls her life from the winning the national title etc. Clip from a finnish morning tv show. She tells that as a kid she did not even fantazise about Miss titles because she knew she was “just a half a finn” but she became one of the most loved Miss Finlands and very successful model and business woman. In a country of the most homogenious (white) population in Europe! She really shook up things here! Sorry, abagond. Off topic, I know.
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@ Kwamla – Influencing our immediate world would only revolutionize society if a substantial percentage of us (a majority) choose a path to do so. Given mankind’s history, this is highly unlikely.
What I’m trying to say is, “since you can’t change the whole world, change what you can in the world”. I have found greater happiness adopting this perspective. Most of us ordinary people have a limited amount of influence, and lamenting the state of the world is depressing when one has a minimal influence upon it’s entirety.
You are correct – with enough participation and momentum each one of us trying to make our world a better place could change all of society – but only if we all buy in!!
@ Agabond – How so’ you ask? I contend that is absurd to conclude that every instance of “white success” is due to society’s white privilege mentality. It is equally foolish to conclude that every “black failure” is a result of the same phenomena. Ultimately, there will always be an individual component.
Policies that use society’s white privilege mentality as a justification for having a lower standard for an individual because they are a visible minority are equally problematic as the mentality we are discussing. I am mocking the product – not the reason it is produced.
(Tongue firmly planted in my cheek) “Because after all, us white bastards enjoy this unfair advantage, and we will resist any policy or practice which might erode our position in society. Since us white bastards are so devious, it’s necessary for social liberals and visible minorities to demand lower standards and racial quotas or blacks and other visible minorities will NEVER get a break!”
The above statement is completely false. Society was already here when each of us arrived – white or black. We didn’t create this situation, we are subjected to it. I would not want to get a job simply because I was the white applicant, and any self-respecting black man will resent tokenism, preferring to be recognized on his own merits.
The false statement generalizes both sides of the argument. A judgment based upon generalization will be “prejudiced” by that same generalization. The survey suggests that mainly whites like things the way they are, and only resist “affirmative action” so they can maintain their status. This is not necessarily true. This white bastard just wants EVERYONE to be measured equally, and resents the facts that society is content to lower standards for one person over another, RATHER THAN pursue actual equality.
This fact is what I was mocking…
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Society was already here when each of us arrived – white or black.
Eh… No. Society doesn’t exist in a vacuum. People build it. What you said here contradicts what you wrote earlier, about individuals making individual change. Either you believe people can do it, or you don’t.
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@ DWR:
Once again, I did not call anyone a “white bastard”. How would you like it if I characterized your position and threw in the n-word here and there? Tongue In Cheek, Of Course. As A Joke Ha Ha. Would that be fair? Would that be civil? Or would that be me being a fucking jerk?
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@ Herneith
What is “intra-racism”?
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@ Mira: You are correct when you say people created society and that we (people) have the power to change it. No contradiction – I’m stating that those who preceded us set the table, and we aren’t responsible for the meal they have served us. We can choose to feast or evaluate what’s on the menu.
@ Agabond: To clarify once and for all: I am mocking the generalization of discussing racial biases and societal privileges by using the self-effacing term “white bastard” because if in fact, we Caucasians all enjoy and prefer such a status quo, then we ought to own the term because we would deserve the title.
I’m pleased to see that you would not use similar terminology to refer to yourself in a self-effacing manner as evidenced by you referencing the “n-word” rather than using it. My wife’s nephews use it in my presence and the duplicity of such behaviour is appalling. I’m not simply annoyed by the fact that I would be labeled a “racist” if I spoke the word aloud since I am white. I can’t stomach the notion that they believe it’s OK to call themselves something that they would not like anyone else to call them, or allow anyone to get away with calling them.
So – before Mira points out that I’m probably contradicting myself again, I’d better quit using the “wb-word” also for the exact same reasons.
Seriously, I only used the term to demonstrate the point that generalization is the stuff of bias and racism. We ought to aim higher (meaning all of society) and aspire to judge one another as individuals. I apologize if my example has offended you.
Lastly – I marvel at this: There is much commentary on how society got where we are and if society has a prayer of evolving past racism (which is great). A couple of comments on my use of the dreaded “wb-word” (already addressed that). Why won’t anyone tackle the point I have already made more than once? Affirmative action often discriminates and does not elevate a visible minority when a student is accepted with a lower SAT score or the less qualified applicant is hired to maintain a racial quota. This is not a response to a white-privileged society that will ever change it for the better, or cause us to evolve as a society.
As I said earlier: “I would not want to get a job simply because I was the white applicant, and any self-respecting black man (or woman) will resent tokenism, preferring to be recognized on his (or her) own merits.”
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@ Hernieth
On the university level, I’ve attended scores and scores of classes, and every now and then professors will think x student looks like y student so he/she mistakenly calls that person by that name once or twice. In my experience, it’s never been a white student that this happens to. And I don’t see that as a coincidence or a slip-up. In one class it was particularly bad when the professor took nearly the entire semester to stop calling my friend by the name of a classmate. The only thing they had in common was having the same medium brown complexion. I mean really – one was tall and thin, the other short and curvy. One with natural, short hair, the other with long extensions. One in her 20s the other in her 40s. It really bothered and hurt her. It made her feel like she wasn’t important enough for him to learn her name.
It can also have serious legal repercussions when police officers or witnesses have this inability to differentiate people from a group, as I learned in my first jury duty. I will not go into the whole story, but let’s just say I don’t believe any BP who has to prove he’s a victim of mistaken identity in someone else’s crime stands a snowball’s chance in hell in the courtroom. There are few things that scare me in this world, but the reality of that fact being confirmed to me in our real-life American judicial system strikes a note of fear within me like you wouldn’t believe.
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DWR: The “WB-word” isn’t a point of contention and it is COMPLETELY ridiculous to compare it to the “n-word.” Try a few centuries of slavery, rape, murder, and oppression under the name of such a term before it begins to have such gravity. There is no comparison.
You’re thinking on petty terms. “Get away” with calling somebody such-and-such? Why do you CARE that you can’t use that word? Do you WANT to? Is it always on the tip of your tongue? Why does it need to be your right?
AA furthermore exists as a weak attempt to get the playing field level. If everyone started out on equal terms and was subjected to completely nondiscriminatory standards by utterly fairminded people in power, things would be different, but they aren’t, and AA is an acknowledgment of as much. White people have been getting AA for centuries because of other whites controlling more or less everything in this society.
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@DWR
The funny thing about outrage over affirmative action only benefiting minorities, it kind of ….doesn’t.
At my school I am not only smarter, and came in with higher ACT score than everybody else. The school I got to is close to the Canadian Border, so there are a lot of Canadian Students and legacies at this small college with 0.95 GPAs
I kid you not. And do they graduate? Oh hell yes.
I did work study in the registrars office and many of these people I know and tutor personally, and I have seen how shitty their transcripts are.
Why do they slide past? They are white, and often times rich although not necessarily, and someone in their family is buddy/buddy with people on the board.
In the bookstore the other day I heard this one girl(white), she plays Soccer, talking about how even if she fucks her grades(they are fucked up, on easy things like general requirements) up the school will let it slide. She whispered this but I was right behind her and her friend.
The reason this bothers me is because of the fact that a girl I know(she’s an African Immigrant) just got kicked out of the Nursing Program for having a lower average in ONE course, after having a dispute with a teacher of that course. And shit like that happens all the time to MINORITY( black & native) students. One reason why I didn’t join the Nursing Program, too much obvious discrimination, but they break their asses to get minorities into their program.
The funny thing? Nobody has to follow affirmative action. This is a private school. They get plenty of money. This school, obviously does it for the grants they receive(greedy). And they will tell you to your face too. Especially if you’re a Native Student. The few Natives that they let in are usually well connected or/and very intelligent and have the transcripts, scholarships, awards to prove it. And I can count those people on my hand.
But watch what happens if they mess up, even slightly. My one friend that’s a Native who” played the game”? Model minority all the way, her picture used in promotions, high GPA? She got pregnant and was denied admission into their graduate program.
The state Uni and all her other school accepted her, including her Native University. But it was a slap in the face to someone who spent so much time doing all the extra thankless leg work, and was PROMISED a spot. She took a year off to raise her baby and I don’t blame her. She even put off marriage to the man she’s in love with just so that she could get into that Grad School. She would have been the FIRST Native American student to do it.
“Last hired, first fired.” is STILL the standard. Don’t be fooled. They suckered me in with that “diversity” sh*t. But I figured them out and I’m gone, I already sent my transcripts out. I saw how they treated her. A lot of other people are starting to get wise to it too, they were particularly ridiculous this year. Now the spent a lot of money to recruit minorities but from international schools, not local ones. Poor unsuspecting, African and Asian immigrants.
If your son is mixed race warn him too. Affirmative Action only works to get you in(some of the time). Especially when a greedy school wants to get the grant money. Which is half the battle, and if you’re not cutting it academically? When they need to trim the fat you will be the first out the door. But don’t even act like non minorities don’t have the advantages. They still do.
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@ Agabond:
I’m scratching my head. I’ve read your original posts (which you suggest as supplemental material) – with titles like “Mighty Whitey” and “darkies” and the use of terms such as “uppity Negroes”.
…and the use of “white bastard” in the context in which I used it upset you? I never once said or even strongly implied that you personally called me or anyone a white bastard, so why did this get to you?
I am white – can’t change that.
There is white privilege in society – can’t change that overnight.
I probably have benefited from it – too late to alter that.
I may not be able to prevent myself from benefiting once again from it – it may be beyond my control since I severely limited in my ability alter another man’s thinking.
And if I loved it that way, I would very much be everything that you are so concerned that I am implying that you have labeled me. It is not you alone who imply this though, it is everyone who makes mistake #1 and generalizes everyone who looks the same, but looks different from his or herself, forgetting that each one is an individual.
Comments like: “whites are the ones most likely to make (white privileged statements) and defend them strongly” and “blacks like to complain” are both examples of what I’m talking about. Both statements generalize on a racial basis, but the white person who speaks of blacks in general terms is considered to be patently racist and takes his white privilege for granted. Is possible that you personally dislike recognizing your own inability at times to avoid this trap of generalizing when you speak of whites? Please consider this – I get disappointed in my own self when I recognize my failures and limits – the blessing of cognitive reflection is that you can then correct yourself and decide against persisting in a biased mindset.
I’m beginning to conclude that you believed that I felt that you were calling me a white bastard because you are conscious of the fallacy of making statements which generalize on a racial basis. It’s not productive when anyone does it, white or black.
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@ Student:
I have not said that “affirmative action only benefit(s) minorities” nor to I believe it to be true. If anything I think it is a demeaning practice IF special dispensations are made for a visible minority. I object to such practices.
I would much prefer to have my mixed race children interviewed for every position in life by individuals who are blindfolded beforehand.
@ Eva:
Please read back – Agabond brought up the N-word, not I. She brought it up because I used the term “white bastard”.
(I opt to not reply to your accusations that I desire to use the word)
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@ DWR
“Comments like: “whites are the ones most likely to make (white privileged statements) and defend them strongly” and “blacks like to complain” are both examples of what I’m talking about. Both statements generalize on a racial basis, but the white person who speaks of blacks in general terms is considered to be patently racist and takes his white privilege for granted.”
Statements like that are not necessarily racist.
For instance, I could say that “Blacks are more likely to live in the ghetto.” That would not be a racist statement.
I could also say that “Whites are more likely to live in Beverly Hills.” That is also not a racist comment.
It also works the same for behavior.
“Blacks are more prone to strongly resent things they perceive to be racist.”
or
“Whites are more likely to downplay the effects of White racism.”
Again, neither of those are racist statements.
However, if I say that White people are arrogant (without qualifying the statement) then yes, I am being a racist.
And if I say that Black people are criminals (without qualifying the statement) then again, I’m being a racist.
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@ Eva
…and by the way, if a government agency or a private firm have a quota as part of their hiring practice, then an employee “must” practice affirmative action. (Sure they can resign if they don’t wish to follow company policy) If and when a government body mandates that a certain number of visible minorities must be present in a workplace, then failure to do so will be a violation of the law. This is a common practice on both sides of the border. The Canadian Human Rights commission exists for the sole purpose of defending those who believe they have been denied opportunities. When an individual or a corporate entity is accused they are essentially guilty until proven innocent (not in the eyes of the law, but in the commission’s views) and they are required to cover their own legal expenses to defend themselves.
I have personally hired people of both races a variety of times. Neither race has proven to produce a better worker. As an employer, it would be advantageous if it were possible to screen applicants on such a simplistic basis, but only if it produced desirable results. I am forced to conclude that I must choose whom to hire based upon their qualifications and general demeanor as a person.
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@ King: “Statements like that are not necessarily racist.”
That is correct.
Generalization + Ignorance * Fear = Racism
I am not saying such general statements are inherently racist, rather that both statements equally generalize based upon race, and that generalizing / judging based upon race is a part of the problem. Hope that clarifies…
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@ DWR, Eva:
Words like “white bastard”, “whitey” and “white devil” are nowhere near as bad as the n-word. But white commenters do put those words into their characterizations of my point of view to make them sound racist.
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So….wait a minute….I’m “trying to make you sound racist” now?
Conversation over.
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@Victoria:
Exactly. The person who did this was someone I worked with for many years, and was on a first name basis with me. It wasn’t someone I maybe saw a couple of times and didn’t know, even on a superficial level. He also called me by a male co-workers name. Now, I do-not have a problem with this man per se,(couldn’t give a rat’s arse about him actually, I am paid to talk to him). You hit the nail on the head when referring to the judicial system and mistaken identity. This clown’s mistaking my name is, was, an indication of the systemic racism in the work site. In my line of work, I cannot afford to be called by another person’s name! It could have potentially dangerous and life altering consequences! My primary beef therefore, was they systemic aspect stemming from this incident, and the ensuing possibilities that could arise from it. My health and safety being potentially put at risk. Couple this with an anonymous lunatic writing death threats to myself and other black staff, this is doubly so, so it is not just a ‘innocent slip-up’ we all are guilty of now and then.
I will not go into the whole story, but let’s just say I don’t believe any BP who has to prove he’s a victim of mistaken identity in someone else’s crime stands a snowball’s chance in hell in the courtroom.
Yes, and even if the said black person beats the charges, they may have been temporarily incarcerated(until someone bails them out), they will have had to hire a lawyer, expending money they may not have had to start, if they want a good lawyer, they may have to. They may become targets for further stops by police since their name’s are in the system.
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Parting shot: “white commenters do put those words into their characterizations of my point of view to make them sound racist”
You are proving my point by generalizing. I am white. I am a “commenter”. Hence, you imply that my motive for using a term is the same as any other “white commenter” would have: To make you “sound racist”.
Sweetheart – If I sound racist it will be because of what I myself say. Vice-versa.
Conversation over – carry on without me. You have successfully discouraged someone with a viewpoint differing from your own from further participation.
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@ DWR:
Your comments about affirmative action assume that whites are completely fair-minded, that they can judge merit in a colour-blind way. I do not know of any study that shows them capable of that. They will take a less qualified white over a black or Asian person.
Whites have been benefiting from that sort of white affirmative action for hundreds of years and continue to do so. But whites do not see it like that because they are blind to their own white privilege. That is part of the white privilege mindset.
You notice the “unfair” advantages people of colour receive while overlooking the much greater advantages that whites enjoy. Because you take those advantages for granted, because you never had to live without them. They are like the air you breathe. That shapes how you think. That is the very thing this post is talking about.
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@ Victoria:
Excellent comment. Thank you.
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Affirmative action often discriminates and does not elevate a visible minority when a student is accepted with a lower SAT score or the less qualified applicant is hired to maintain a racial quota.
I’ll ‘”tackle” your question. Simply put, there are not enough blacks, once you whittle down the numbers, to put a dent in the employment and educational prospects of whites. Dissect, trisect, quadruplesect this topic all you want. In fact it is white women who benefit the most. These criticisms are only a cloak for people who are racist and don’t want to be labeled as such. If these white men stuck to the argument of Affirmative Action being such a bane for equality, they would have to go after the white women! Now if they did that, they may not get laid for the most part would they?
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You notice the “unfair” advantages people of colour receive while overlooking the much greater advantages that whites enjoy.
Yes the ol “we are all equal” spiel as soon as a black, or other racialized person, gets something extra that whites don’t. They will talk down, try to flip the script, do anything to prove the contrary.
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Oh, gee, yet another person who refuses to recognize white privilege and take responsibility has opted out of the conversation. Where will we ever find another one of those?
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Abagond,
I don’t believe DWR is accusing you of calling him a “white bastard”…he was calling himself a lucky “white bastard” in an attempt to be sarcastic/witty/self-mocking…
I hate to see a good conversation derailed…
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DWR
@ Mira: You are correct when you say people created society and that we (people) have the power to change it. No contradiction – I’m stating that those who preceded us set the table, and we aren’t responsible for the meal they have served us. We can choose to feast or evaluate what’s on the menu.
Yes, but we (and by “we” I mean all people, regardless of race, gender, etc.) must first UNLEARN what we’ve been taught by the culture. A baby starts learning its culture right from the start. If someone wants to make a change (as much as she can in the world), she must unlearn those things first. Or you continue with the practice of your ancestors that you claim you’re not proud of.
MOST of the people never do this.
Now, about the “n” word and “wb” word and language privilege. I must admit this thing confuses me. There’s no such a thing in my culture (language privilege I mean). I must admit I don’t understand why referring to a certain word is always seen as the same as using it, or why would saying “n-word” instead of pronouncing it is so much better. It’s how things are seen in my culture and it’s just one of the confusing things about the American culture for me. (And, dare to say, I don’t think the way things are in America must be the same around the world).
Still. The N word has a complex, horrible history- something that other slurs don’t have (as much as I understand). This goes for slurs used for whites, or even other slurs used for blacks (as far as I understand). But if it hurts you so much to be called a “wb”, then by all means, you have a right to demand that people don’t use it for you or that you’d take serious offense.
Parting shot: “white commenters do put those words into their characterizations of my point of view to make them sound racist”
You are proving my point by generalizing. I am white. I am a “commenter”. Hence, you imply that my motive for using a term is the same as any other “white commenter” would have: To make you “sound racist”.
This is logic fail. “X do Y; Joe is X, therefore he does Y” is not a valid logical statement, because it’s never said “ALL X do Y”.
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Abagond,
Thanks for using my blog as reference to this topic. I like to add, if it’s not been mentioned already in the comment section, that the funniest thing I’ve heard are whites complaining how there’s no White History Month or White Entertainment Television (WET). I find it hilarious considering how white history is taught, celebrated, and even manipulated in their favor all the time, and how the big media companies are all owned by white men, and most of what you see in the mainstream media involve whiteness or white people.
*Shakes my head.*
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@ Eva
LMFAOOO!
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What a great post, thank you Abagond. I wouldn’t bother with dwr, that fool’s just not ready to get it yet.
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Mira:
“This is logic fail. “X do Y; Joe is X, therefore he does Y” is not a valid logical statement, because it’s never said “ALL X do Y”.”
Thank you!
SOME White Americans when they read my blog will read X as “ALL X and ONLY X” if X = white. And then they accuse ME of generalizing.
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Right. I must also add whether you (or anybody else) believes “some” means “majority” is irrelevant: it still doesn’t mean ALL whites, or ALL white commenter that appear here.
I am happy to say this website gives fair chance to everybody. I was never discriminated against or treated differently because of my skin colour, like it sometimes does happen on certain race websites. Here, and on other race related websites I frequent, white commenters are not automatically seen as “White bastards”, even if “whites” as a group are being criticized.
If nobody called you, personally, names, why do you act so defensive?
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***Blacks are just as racist as whites. ***
I think Larry Elder pointed out that blacks are in fact more racist than whites. Certainly that is supported by data on interracial violence.
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J Schwartz: No, blacks are not “more racist” than whites. Black American racial prejudice is reactionary and has no capacity to be institutional.
The poor and disenfranchised often only have violence as a weapon; overall crimes of whites against blacks are an entirely different story. Furthermore, all crime statistics are seen through the lens of an inherently racist justice system.
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J Schwartz
***Blacks are just as racist as whites. ***
I think Larry Elder pointed out that blacks are in fact more racist than whites. Certainly that is supported by data on interracial violence.
– – –
Really?! OMG! If Larry Elder said it then it MUST be true!
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7.Affirmative action is unfair to whites.
It certainly is, but that isn’t the main problem with it. And it definitely isn’t (the mainstream-conservative argument) that it harms the favored groups through “the soft bigotry of low expectations”. (Sure, unearned privilege corrupts the soul, but let the spitirual leaders Revs. Wright, Sharpton, and Farrakhan worry about that.)
No, the real harm of the race industry comes in the form of putting millions of people into positions for which they aren’t qualified, compromising the functionality of our public and private institutions, destroying the notion of merit and universally accepted standards, and lowering the entire society to a baser level, both materially and morally.
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“No, the real harm of the race industry comes in the form of putting millions of people into positions for which they aren’t qualified, compromising the functionality of our public and private institutions, destroying the notion of merit and universally accepted standards, and lowering the entire society to a baser level, both materially and morally.”
Yes, because the following were certainly inherently qualified:
George W. Bush
Kenneth Lay
Tony Hayward
numerous CEOs of banks (AIG says hello)
Of course, what I find really hilarious is when whites complain about affirmative action despite the fact that it’s primarily upper class white women who benefit from it. It doesn’t help that the white middle class/working class (and sadly blind ‘minorities’ of all types who are also in either group) feel that if any attempt is made to better working conditions for said minorities then it’s an attempt to erode their ill-gotten (and in the end easily lost) privileges.
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I leave the veracity of your statement on your conscience, GM, but justifying and promoting incompetence, as affirmative action does, is wrong and harmful whoever the beneficiary is. Including, certainly, underqualified white women.
Still, this isn’t about special interests, discriminated for or against. This is about harm done to society as a whole.
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Nonserviam:
This post went right over your head.
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I understand very well what you’re saying, abagond. I’m just not buying into your worldview.
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“No, the real harm of the race industry comes in the form of putting millions of people into positions for which they aren’t qualified, compromising the functionality of our public and private institutions, destroying the notion of merit and universally accepted standards, and lowering the entire society to a baser level, both materially and morally.”
I guess some things are worth repeating in thread after thread…
@ nonserviam
Most companies more than meet their Affirmative Action numbers just with the women who work for the company out of course in the 21st century. Throw in some minorities on the lower levels of the company and you’re good. THERE IS NO NEED TO HIRE MOBS OF UNQUALIFIED BLACK PEOPLE. That is a White fantasy that his been fanning it’s own flame for decades now.
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In the affirmative-action game, race beats sex almost every time. Just look at the 2008 Democratic primary for the most telling example.
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2008 Democratic Presidential primary, to be clear.
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Great article.
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What is the difference between white privilege and white power?
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I was just scanning Amazon.com and saw a ‘Listmania’ title that raised my eyebrows! It’s called Guide to Living in Costa Rica if you’re White: a List by Emily Fox
Fascinating, no?
http://www.amazon.com/Guide-living-Costa-youre-white/lm/R5BMXUWZSHEG4/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_2_rsrssi0
Ah, to have such arrogance! Must be grand… 😀
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@ sepultura
well, at least they came out and said it. But why wouldn’t they just say American? Would it be that much different for a Black or Asian American if they went to Costa Rica? From the little paragraph it didn’t seem so.
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@jas0nburns:
“But why wouldn’t they just say American? Would it be that much different for a Black or Asian American if they went to Costa Rica? From the little paragraph it didn’t seem so.”
I appreciate the racial distinction. The author is aware of zie audience, and the product bias intended toward said audience. Writing from my own experience, as an African-American, the list would infact…be different.
Having lived Costa Rica myself, I would include different kinds of products for hair and skin care, as well as include cultural icons and photographs. Unfortunately, the perspective of “America” and “Non-white Americans” in other parts of the world is developed through the lens and opinions of traveling white Americans, and the limited availability of American tv shows.
Both of which are skewed and filled misinformation and ignorance. So non-white people traveling abroad have to pack an additional “kit.”
It’s only ignorant white Americans who want to think one size should fit all America(n).
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Yeah I see what you’re saying. But wouldn’t the ideal be that someone would write a travel book that actually was American instead of just white American. Instead of just saying “American” and than only really being for white Americans.
Or is the term American just meaningless when it comes to culture. As in there really isn’t such a thing. We don’t really share anything worth mentioning.
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Yes, when certain people say “American”, they do think on “white American”. And that’s bad. However, as an outsider, I must say black and white (and all the other) Americans do share a common culture. Maybe it’s not that obvious to you (Americans) because you forcus on your differences, but frankly, there are so many similar things (as far as I can tell) so yes, I think it’s possible to talk about an “American culture”. *
* Now, if I really want to be true to anthropology, I’d say defining a culture is an extremely difficult, if not impossible task. But just for the sake of this argument, I’d say that if it’s possible to talk about a “general Eastern European/Balkan culture” (which consists of so many different countries, languages, and, well, cultures) it’s more than fair to talk about a “general US culture”. Ok, I might be biased here, but frankly, differences between black Americans and white Americans seem less pronounced than differences between different Eastern European countries. (And yet, they (EE countries) are somehow considered to be more or less the same).
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@jas0nburns
“But wouldn’t the ideal be that someone would write a travel book that actually was American instead of just…”
“…the term American just meaningless when it comes to culture. As in there really isn’t such a thing. We don’t really share anything worth mentioning…”
First of all, the title of the book is: ” A guide to living in Costa Rica if you’re white”.
I don’t assume the author is American or that she is writing from a uniquely American point of view. Although, as a non-white person, I can see she is writing from the universal understanding of “whiteness” and her intended audience is white. American or otherwise.
The “ideal” in America, was and still is white-centric based. Part of our sad issue in America is the continued refinement of racism/white supremacy, as well arrogance in thinking everything that is said, written or happens in the World centers around American-ness.
We have a shared culture in America. That culture is the system of racism/white supremacy. Not only is it worth mentioning, it’s imperative if WE are ever going to dismantle the structure, and replace it with a system of justice.
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@Mira
“…but frankly, differences between black Americans and white Americans seem less pronounced than differences between different Eastern European countries. (And yet, they (EE countries) are somehow considered to be more or less the same)…”
Universal. White-ness. Same-ness.
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I can see she is writing from the universal understanding of “whiteness” and her intended audience is white. American or otherwise.
You see, I have a problem with this (if it was really the author’s intention). There’s no such thing as a “white culture” (across the world). No way. There are certainly some similar things, especially between so-called “Anglo-whites”, but I am not sure if it’s possible to write a book titled “A guide to living in X if you’re white”. What I DO think is that by “white”, author probably meant “white American/Westerner”, which is just another instance of displaying American privilege. (Just saying…)
(Now, we can argue whose culture is more similar to white Americans: black American or white non-American/non-Western, but I am not sure if there is an easy answer to it, particularly when you think of globalization and the fact most of the world is affected by the (white) American culture).
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@ MinneB
I was going off of this line from the authors note where she specifically says it’s for Americans:
The list author says: “So, you want to leave the good old U.S. of A. and head South to where all the other white people are going”
“The “ideal” in America, was and still is white-centric based.”
Well it’s not really “ideal” then is it? I totally get what you’re saying but i’m not sure if you’re getting me or not. I mean wouldn’t it be nice (ideal) if the book was written for the real America, If the definition of American could be expanded to include others besides WP. Then you wouldn’t need a separate book for everyone.
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@Jas0n
“… was going off of this line from the authors note where she specifically says it’s for Americans:..”
I stand corrected and better understand your initial response.
“I mean wouldn’t it be nice (ideal) if the book was written for the real America, If the definition of American could be expanded to include others besides WP. Then you wouldn’t need a separate book for everyone.”
I appreciate the sentiment, but WP have shown to have difficulty fully integrating. Literature and otherwise.
I wonder if a travel book with the title: “Black American travel guide to non-white, non-black regions of the world” would get published. What do you think?
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@ Mira
I believe there is a global system of racism/white supremacy. There are people who look white, and benefit from whiteness throughout the world. Non-white people know what white culture is, because knowing is often contingent upon their survival.
“…author probably meant “white American/Westerner”, which is just another instance of displaying American privilege. (Just saying…)”
What is the difference between American privilege and American power?
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I believe there is a global system of racism/white supremacy. There are people who look white, and benefit from whiteness throughout the world.
Yes, but it doesn’t work the same way it works in America. Believing that it does work the same way is another way of displaying American privilege.
Also, benefiting from white privilege doesn’t mean all whites share the same culture. Quite the contrary. There are many wars that whites fought against each other (take WWII as an example) and claiming whites share the same culture all over the world would be ridiculous – just as would be claiming blacks all over the world share the same culture.
In case of this Costa Rica book, whites in my part of the world can’t afford to visit a neighborhood country, let alone Costa Rica, so the book is obviously not written with us in mind.
What is the difference between American privilege and American power?
American privilege means benefiting from the power America has.
All Americans, of any race, benefit from this privilege. Individuals might not have much of said power, particularly if they are a member of a minority group, but on a global level, all Americans, including minorities, benefit from it.
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@Mira
“Yes, but it doesn’t work the same way it works in America. Believing that it does work the same way is another way of displaying American privilege.”
My perspective and belief have been formed by living and working throughout Europe, South America, and Africa and being a non-white person.
I have witnessed and I am convinced, no matter where in the world white people are, there’s a group of non-white folks being mistreated by a system of racism/white supremacy.
The system of racism/supremacy feels pretty much the same no matter where in the world your are, if one is NOT a beneficiary of said system.
“There are many wars that whites fought against each other (take WWII as an example) and claiming whites share the same culture all over the world would be ridiculous.”
All white skinned people share and benefit from a global system of racism/white supremacy. Denial and language refinement doesn’t dismantle it. Cali it culture. Call it ridiculous. Call it whatever you want… no matter what you call it, doesn’t change the way it feels to the victim.
“All Americans, of any race, benefit from this privilege. Individuals might not have much of said power, particularly if they are a member of a minority group, but on a global level, all Americans, including minorities, benefit from it.”
Speculation.
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Minnie,
Once again, the fact all white people, no matter where they lice are racist, doesn’t mean these people are the same (or that the same privileges and rules apply to all of them). I can say for certain, even without reading said book about Costa Rica, is that many (most?) of the things written there don’t apply to people in my part of the world, just you can say without reading the book that many of what is said don’t apply to blacks.
All white skinned people share and benefit from a global system of racism/white supremacy. Denial and language refinement doesn’t dismantle it.
I don’t deny white privilege. I am saying it doesn’t make all white cultures the same any more than it (or whatever else) makes all black cultures the same.
Also, white privilege works a bit differently for cultures that don’t directly benefit from it (because they are, and never were, part of a capitalist colonial system that got all the white supremacy thing going, or because only white people live in their cultures). You might not notice it, because most of the whites, regardless of culture, are racist so they will treat you badly, but not all white cultures/countries benefit from white privilege the same way.
What is important to note, though, is that even if almost none of the things listed as white privilege apply to you, if you are white, you do have white privilege. You don’t need to check all the boxes on the “white privilege card” to have it, nor does lack of some things listed means you don’t have white privilege.
Speculation
To you, it might be a speculation (especially if you are an American). But when you don’t have said privilege (like you don’t have the white one), it’s real.
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“I wonder if a travel book with the title: “Black American travel guide to non-white, non-black regions of the world” would get published. What do you think?”
I don’t know, But I bet if it was just, “a guide to living in Costa Rica if you’re black” it would. Or “traveling while black” if it were a more general thing.
In fact, That would be an enlightening series of travel books if well written. I would read it.
“WP have shown to have difficulty fully integrating. Literature and otherwise.”
True, I think we would have to be much more personally integrated before our cultural output could begin to reflect that in any way.
I think lack of contact and familiarity breeds fear and a lack of respect among whites.
You can see it in the comments of WP who always want to talk about crime rates and IQ tests. If they actually knew any POC they wouldn’t be so concerned with all that, because that’s got nothing to do with everyday life. You can’t come to understand people that way.
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@jas0n:
MinneB:
“WP have shown to have difficulty fully integrating. Literature and otherwise.”
jas0n:
“True, I think we would have to be much more personally integrated before our cultural output could begin to reflect that in any way.”
Sheesh, how long does it take?
jas0n:
“I think lack of contact and familiarity breeds fear and a lack of respect among whites.”
25 years ago, I agreed with your comments. But 25 years later, I’m not drinking the same racial kool-ade the racist man and woman mixed for my parents, and their parents before them. white people are in control, and they are having the kind of contact with non-whites they want and create.
You are right though; white people aren’t trying to understand themselves, let alone how they perpetuate and operate under the system of white domination. They don’t need to.
They keep using rhetoric to patch the rotted human size holes in the “Ark” their ancestors built for them to float above the flooding rains of racism/white supremacy they created.
That boat is sinking.
Your excuses might comfort you, but they don’t float.
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@Mira:
I just re-read your post.
White power is fundamentally the same, and culturally refined.
Racism/white supremacy is not exclusively the result of colonialism, but has its roots in elitism and expansionism as far back as the Roman empire. A global system of white supremacy.
Try inserting power, wherever you have written privilege.
What is the difference between white privilege and white power…in the world?
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Well, that’s what I was trying to say: if we take racism aside, and focus on different white cultures only, they don’t appear similar at all. Definitely not in a way you can write a book for “white people” and expect it to apply to all white cultures. I mean, just the line from the book: ““So, you want to leave the good old U.S. of A. and head South…” points out it’s targeted to white Americans and not whites of other cultures.
Like I said, I haven’t read the book, but I can say without reading it, many of the things discussed here can’t be applied to my culture (and many other white culture), any more that they can be applied to black Americans.
Racism/white supremacy is not exclusively the result of colonialism, but has its roots in elitism and expansionism as far back as the Roman empire.
Races are invented with the rise of capitalism. They didn’t exist before that; therefore, any colonialism and expansionism before that can’t be seen as being race motivated (particularly given the fact Romans enslaved and conquered many whites). And they were not even first who did it- it’s older than the Roman empire. Still, there are whites who were not colonialist nor did they benefit from it- and they still have white privilege. But to claim they experience said privilege the same way colonial whites do is simplification.
What is the difference between white privilege and white power…in the world?
White privilege is privilege to use power whites have. Any white person, no matter on class, ethnicity, gender, etc. benefit from white privilege. But not all whites benefit the same way, because not all white cultures have the same power.
Let’s take a look at Abagond’s white privilege list.
Almost none of it applies to people in my culture. And still, we have white privilege; but it sure works differently than the one described here (or on other similar lists).
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@ minne
when I said that..
“I think lack of contact and familiarity breeds fear and a lack of respect among whites”
you responded with
“they are having the kind of contact with non-whites they want and create.”
I agree, I certainly wasn’t suggesting that this lack of contact was some kind of accident, that it “just happened” or something. I’m aware of who’s responsible and that it’s quite deliberate. I see how you could have interpreted my comment that way though.
I don’t think that the fear and lack of respect that whites harbor towards POC could thrive if we stopped resisting integration. But it’s that same fear and lack of respect that KEEPS us from integrating in the first place. So it’s a catch 22 until whites have some reason to want to overcome all of that. And like you said, at the moment we don’t need to.
“Your excuses might comfort you, but they don’t float.”
I am attempting to comfort myself it’s true. but not by making excuses. The thought that I might be able to understand the nature whiteness well enough to at some point change it in some way is comforting to me. That might be stupid or naive, but at least it distracts me from trying to make excuses 😉
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@ Mira
ok.
you. are. different. you. are. unique.
Are you a white person?
“…if we take racism aside…”
I’m not interested in putting racism/white supremacy aside…I want it replaced with a system of justice.
“…and focus on different white cultures only, they don’t appear similar at all.”
Title of the post: white privilege mindset.
Not white cultures mindset.
I’m done.
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@jas0n
“So it’s a catch 22 until whites have some reason to want to overcome all of that…”
The possibility of experiencing real justice, is not reason enough, huh? The crutch of racism/white supremacy has become the third leg. You don’t know how to walk without it.
“And like you said, at the moment we don’t need to.”
Still think it’s all about you, don’t you. The white privilege mindset is soooo 1900’s. Unshackle yourselves.
I’m done.
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wtf
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Well I never! It seems Mira and Jas0n your understanding of white privilege and the culture of white supremacy still leaves some Black people in this forum lifting their hands up in exasperation!!!
@MinneB
Its amazing how such simple concepts as “justice and equality for ALL” seem less of a priority when you have the luxury of choosing to benefit from a white privileged mindset.
What most white people are unwilling to grasp or hold onto is the simple belief that (putting culture, race, ethnicity even gender aside, if you can) we are essentially ALL the same!
What does that mean???
It means we are ALL human beings…we are all collectively the same species! Or how about we are all the same family? Or we have the same basic feelings? The same basic emotions?
Again such a belief is so simple a concept to take on board. Except. Apparently, when confronted with the delusional distractions of white privilege and the culture of white supremacy.
Of course those white people who are not distracted will know that “justice and equality” for ALL. Is the ONLY PRIORITY in an unequal and racially sub-divided world.
Something Black people and POC have the single undistracted option of grasping.
This is what to have privilege means. It means to have a choice regardless of whether you choose to exercise it or not.
Endless concentrations and focusing on the subtleties and nuances of the white privileged mindset, instead of how to eliminate it, forces that priority to be relegated and sometimes forgotten.
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Kwamla,
All I pointed out in my reply was that the book about Costa Rica was not written for white people, but for white Americans. There is a difference. A huge one.
You simply can’t say – like MinnieB did – that “(the author’s) intended audience is white. American or otherwise“. Because her intended audience wasn’t “white”, but white American.
And I understand that to some of you, there isn’t much difference between the two, but there is. And the difference is evident in the book – and I know this even without reading it – just like you know the book is not written for black Americans even if you don’t read it.
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Such distinctions may seem “huge” to you Mira. But as a Black person. or POC. Who gives a F@uck?
This is what you seem unable to grasp? Probably because you didn’t read what I just wrote above, didn’t understand it or even a combination of the two!
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@Kwamla,
You articulated and completed my thoughts and sentiments.
I just don’t have the interest or energy anymore to engage with white people who just don’t get “it” and they aren’t trying to.
The conversation with them simply doesn’t progress past remedial teaching, or white people’s attempt to convince non-whites of white victimization.
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Well, it can work both ways, Kwamla. Such things might not seem huge to you, since you don’t have to deal with it. (Bombs over your head, for example).
But to people who are forced to deal with it, these thins ARE huge. These things are real.
And it is very offensive to disregard them just because a) you are not affected by them, and b) you are, also, a non-privileged individual. One would think those without privilege would understand it better, but I guess it’s not always the case.
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MinnieB,
If someone bomb you, attack you, enslave you, treat you like garbage and demand you basic human rights both through history and today, I am sorry, but you just don’t have patience to listen you and your oppressors are “the same thing”.
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MinneB. I wholeheartedly agree. It can get really exasperating at times. But I must admit to finding it slightly comical, sometimes, at their efforts to insist on complexity in simple basic concepts.
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@Mira
“… I am sorry, but you just don’t have patience to listen you and your oppressors are “the same thing”.”
I am sorry, I don’t understand you, or what you are trying to say.
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Kwamla,
Do read what I really write instead of what you think I write. If you do care about justice, like you always say you do, you will try to understand.
If not, all I can say, your privilege is showing. And it’s not fun.
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Mira. No one is denying your individual, unique experience. But let me ask you. You live in Serbia? I live in the UK. Lets suppose we could swap places for a minute. would your subtle distinctions of “white” work for you or against you here?
Would the global legacy of white supremacy work for me or against me there?
Tell me who would be better off? Or would there be no difference?
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I am sorry, I don’t understand you, or what you are trying to say.
I am trying to say you are calling me with the name of my oppressor, and I don’t like it.
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What exactly is it you don’t understand here Mira?
What name am I “calling you”?
What name should I be calling you?
I’ve seen you read through and understand much more complex exchange than this?
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You live in Serbia? I live in the UK. Lets suppose we could swap places for a minute.
Only we can’t do it. You can come here, but I can’t go there, because they wouldn’t just let me in the UK. My passport and your passport are not of equal value.
That being said, yes, I’d like to have a privilege of your password.
would your subtle distinctions of “white” work for you or against you here?
I don’t know what UK people think of Balkan peoples these days. But assume I’d be as white as the Queen and treated as such- I’d have all the white privilege.
But the thing is, Kwamla, I am NOT there. I am NOT an EU citizen. You can’t just say “let’s assume you are”. Let’s assume you’re a white UK citizen. Would things change for you? I bet it would.
But it amazes me you think things would not change for me if I were a white UK citizen.
At the end of the day, Kwamla, don’t forget your people (UK) were the ones oppressing, bombing, etc. my people not that long time ago. While my people never did that to your people. So please keep that in mind when trying to say the distinctions between whites are not huge. Because sometimes it can be a matter of life or death, quite literary.
Like in this example:
http://members.tripod.com/sarant_2/ks12milica.html
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@Kwamla,
Man, as long as you can maintain your sense of humor, have at it! Fighting this GLOBAL system of racism/white supremacy is just too serious for me.
“…sometimes, at their efforts to insist on complexity in simple basic concepts.”
They are seriously active and invested in causing confusion about the system of racism/white supremacy. White people are constantly refining their language and behavior to perpetuate the same system from which they benefit.
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What name am I “calling you”?
You are calling me white American (westerner), as if there’s no difference between them and my people, since we’re both white.
That is not just offensive, but also shows profound misunderstanding of the issues at hand. And for someone who’s caring very much about these things, one would think you’d understand.
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NATO bombed Mira’s country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
So to her there is an extremely important difference between “White American” and “white”. She, unlike most White Americans, knows what it is like to be at the wrong end of American power. And not just from the bombings, but in other ways as well:
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Thank you, Abagond.
Kwamla and Minnie (and others), I am sorry if I didn’t make clear: I am not denying white privilege. For anybody, including me.
But there is a difference between that and saying all white cultures are the same. They are not, and (back to the beginning of this discussion), anybody who’s writing a book for white American audience is certainly not writing it for people of my culture (and so many others).
Also, please don’t forget there is a thing called American (and western) privilege that should not be ignored.
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You see Mira it helps not just to be selective here. If you are sincere, and I can believe maybe you are, you need to analyse these issues from both sides.
Time and time again in exchanges I notice this with you. You selectively comment on what I present to you. Which tends to focus on those areas specifically concerned with you
Let me repeat my last sentence again and tell me if you have answered:
“…Tell me who would be better off? Or would there be no difference?
So what can you tell me about what my experience might be like in Serbia? Would I be better off? You see this is the other side I was asking you to compare. How can you possibly understand anything about the nature of Global white supremacy if you ignore or are blind to these comparisons?
Telling me more about the suffering and injustices you or other white people like you have personally had to endure does not make them less white. Certainly not in the eyes of a Global white supremacist colourist system.
And even in your eyes if you think it does. Do you really believe that if I was born and grew up in Serbia (hypothetically speaking) my experience, as a Black/African person would have been no worse than yours?
Mira. It would have been at least 10 times worst!!!
Further… You see. YOU would have the “privilege” of saying “my people in the UK were the ones bombing and killing…” if you lived here. But I wouldn’t !!! Because I don’t regard myself as being a part of those established UK people because I am not fully accepted as such!!!
You don’t understand any of this do you?
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Mira. Allow me to concede that YES you are right not all “white” cultures are the same. In the same way not all “Black” cultures are the same and not all “Asian” cultures are the same etc…etc..
SO WHAT? SO WHAT?? So what if there is American (and western) privilege? Its still ALL WHITE to me!!!
Even in that post you did for Abagond you point out that these two both overlap in general!
Do you think I don’t know or understand this? Do you think MinneB doesn’t understand this?
Who do you think would benefit more from a book that is written with a “white American privileged culture” in mind?
Your non-American white privileged culture or my Black UK/American non-white, non-privileged culture?
Is this really so hard to grasp?
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Telling me more about the suffering and injustices you or other white people like you have personally had to endure does not make them less white.
No, but it makes them LESS WESTERNER, and that’s what I’m trying to say all along.
Westerners don’t see us as one of their own, and when they write a book for “white people”, they don’t write it for us. Is that so hard to understand?
YOU would have the “privilege” of saying “my people in the UK were the ones bombing and killing…” if you lived here. But I wouldn’t !!! Because I don’t regard myself as being a part of those established UK people because I am not fully accepted as such!!!
I admit, this was a trap, and you fell into it.
You see, Kwamla, I don’t regard myself as being a part of those established “white western” people, BECAUSE I AM NOT FULLY ACCEPTED AS SUCH. So if you don’t want to be called an Englishman (providing you’re from England and not another part of the UK), what makes you think I want to be called “white” as in “western white”? Westerners are certainly not my people, since they’ve made quite clear they don’t see me as such. So excuse me for not being too enthusiastic when people insinuate it’s the same to be a white westerner and a non-western white.
Furthermore, if you don’t care about the fact I am not a white westerner and if you see me as simply white, why would I care about the fact you are not a white westerner and see you as simply westerner? Why would your race matter to me more than my ethnicity maters to you?
So what can you tell me about what my experience might be like in Serbia?
In Serbia, many people would probably kiss your ass because you’re a westerner. Also, since Serbia is politically divided almost 50:50, many people would hate you for being a westerner.
Now, if you show you like our culture and prove you don’t consider us to be devils and the only guilty party for the Balkan wars, people would like you.
On the other hand, I am sad to say people are getting more and more xenophobic these days, so you might have some problems for being a foreigner.
As for race, people would stare at you because none of them ever saw a black person before. Since some (most?) people are racist, you’d probably get racist comments too.
But the thing is, your possible bad experience here would, in first place, come from being a westerner and a foreigner, and not from being black. People are racist, but in our book, nationality and ethnicity mean more than race. You can be both black and Serbian, but you can’t be both Serbian and Croatian. Which brings me to:
Now, if you were born and raised here, AND if you consider yourself Serbian (you’re Orthodox Christian, for example) I can guarantee you would have a better treatment with the local population than you have in the UK. There are not many blacks in Serbia (only a few, and most of them are children of Africans who came to Yugoslavia during the non alignment movement days), and if you declare yourself a Serbian, local people would accept you better than white people in UK accept you. And MUCH better than local people here accept our minorities, particularly Gypsies. In short, there are worse things to be considered here than black.
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SO WHAT? SO WHAT??
So nothing. That’s all I tried to point out, many comments above, when Minnie said the author wrote a book for whites, “American or otherwise”- as if the same rules and tips apply for all white cultures, as if it’s the same to be a white American and a Macedonian. The book is useless for us, just like it’s useless for blacks. Because it was written for white Americans.
So what if there is American (and western) privilege? Its still ALL WHITE to me!!!
I understand it is. You are not on the receiving end of this oppression, so it doesn’t matter to you. You might not even notice, especially given the fact you lack other forms of privilege (white, for example). But you still have western privilege, and I can assure you us who don’t suffer for it.
Also, just like you say “it’s still all white to you”, I can disregard your comment about you being a black UK citizen (and therefore your experience in the UK might be different than a white experience), and say it’s still ALL WESTERN to me.
So we could all start playing the oppression Olympics and argue until we get bored (or banned), but it wouldn’t benefit anyone here.
Who do you think would benefit more from a book that is written with a “white American privileged culture” in mind?
Like I said, I don’t know what’s written in that book,b ut I can assure you my “white privileged” non-Western culture can’t benefit from it any more than your “black unprivileged” western culture can.
But maybe someone who actually read the book could say what kind of advice is given there and see what things can, and what things can’t be applied to my culture. (The obvious thing: people here can’t afford to travel to Costa Rica so marketing book for us wouldn’t be a smart business move. Also, the line in the review: “you want to leave USA and travel south” also don’t apply to us). But I am happy to hear more about the tips given, especially those that could apply to people in my part of the world.
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Ok Mira. So in your eyes you are less of a “westerner”
The simple question for you Mira is. Not what you do not wish to be regarded as (white westerner) but what you do wish to be associated with. So why don’t you tell me? Or is it something your still trying to work out?
All I have is you do regard your self as “white” or is even this up for grabs too
Personally I am not that bothered in how you wish to define yourself. I can accept what ever definition you wish to label yourself with. However, it does concern me what “mindset” you wish to be associated with.
This paragraph here provides me with a clue:
Are you really trying to tell me here that any bad experience I might have growing up in Serbia would be dominated by my nationality and ethnicity MORE than my race? Mira. Are you seriously trying to sell me this?
And this is how you understand global white racist supremacy to work?
It seems to me I would be no better off there than in the UK because I would probably insist on retaining my African identity so I would not be readily embracing either (Serbia or Croatia) particularly if had to endure racist comments from both! Which would only probably intensify them!!
At least in the UK I wouldn’t have also have to also endure being the only Black person out there. Only because there are more densely populated areas of visible Black people. Something you in your visibly perceived “white” racial status would be blissfully unaware of over here.
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Ok Mira. So in your eyes you are less of a “westerner”
No, in my eyes I am not a westerner at all, and other westerners don’t see me as one of their own, so we can safely conclude I am not a westerner, and move on.
but what you do wish to be associated with. So why don’t you tell me? Or is it something your still trying to work out?
Ugh. This is a difficult question, to be honest. Yes, you could see I am still trying to work out. You see, I don’t have a concise collective identity I identify with. I used to have one, but now it’s broken. I considered myself Yugoslavian, and when that country broke, I lost my identity. Others around me accepted new, ethnic identities easily, but it’s not easy for me. Maybe it’s because I’m mixed (Serbian, Croatian and some other things), and I simply can’t claim only one. So I don’t have a collective identity.
All I have is you do regard your self as “white” or is even this up for grabs too
I regard myself as “white”, because that’s my race, but I don’t identify with it. Race was never an important issue comparing to those more important ones, so I don’t build much on the fact I am seen as white. (If I am- some people say I am an “ethnic” white, which is just WTF to me, because all people have ethnicity, and white anglo American is equally ethnic as me. But I digress). I do think my race is white, but I don’t identify as such, in a way I’d never call whites “my people”.
Are you really trying to tell me here that any bad experience I might have growing up in Serbia would be dominated by my nationality and ethnicity MORE than my race?
Exactly. I understand this goes against everything you ever experienced in your culture (here I mean UK culture), but that’s how things go around here.
You would probably experience racism, but being Albanian or a Gypsy, much worse to you. I understand it’s difficult to grasp, but that’s how it is. Ethnicity is more important to people here than the race. Much more important.
because I would probably insist on retaining my African identity
No. You would not insist on retaining your “African” identity- you would embrace your particular identity (Sudanese, Nigerian, or whatever it might be), because you’d know where you, or your parents came from, with their own free will. If you’d be a second generation, you’d be mixed and half Serbian, in which case you’d probably embrace Serbian culture, because it’s the only way to go. You must embrace it in order to be accepted. You are free to also embrace your black identity (be it as race or particular country), but you must not embrace an enemy identity (Croatian, Albanian, American). Being Orthodox Christian also helps a lot; not being one puts you in a disadvantage.
And yes, the fact you (or your parent) was a foreigner would force you to work harder than an average Serb at proving how devoted you are to Serbian culture, just like sometimes, racially mixed individuals work harder on proving they are really (insert race), especially if you can’t tell by their appearance.
If you chose not to do it (embrace Serbian culture) then no, it wouldn’t be fun for you. (Not that you can substitute “Serbian” for any other Balkan ethnicity and the same rules apply).
However, born and raised here, your black identity would be different than it is today, and it would depend on how you are integrated in the Serbian culture right from the start.
Something you in your visibly perceived “white” racial status would be blissfully unaware of over here.
Yes, indeed, I am used to be around white people only. I’ve never met (as in: shake hands whit) a non-white person. Still, race is not the only thing that can make you feel alienated from the people around you. In the UK, I’d feel very alienated because of the language. But my white privilege would mean something out there, while it doesn’t mean much here, since everybody’s white.
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You would probably experience racism, but being Albanian or a Gypsy, much worse to you.
This sould be: You would probably experience racism, but being Albanian or a Gypsy, would be much worse to you.
Remember, racism in my part of the world is, in great part, pre-contact racism. None of us ever met a non-white person. There’s no contact whatsoever, except for a brief one during the non-aligned nations days. Our economy (and countries) didn’t benefit from transatlantic slave trade. The land was not stolen from non-whites. There’s no white guilt.
So yes, people stare. A lot. The way they don’t stare in the UK or US. But unlike there, people here wouldn’t think you’re lazy because that stereotype doesn’t exist. Sadly, western media did bring some of the stereotypes about black people, but it’s still different than actually living with black people.
But you could say some people here would see you as one of their own the way westerners would never see you: because many people here would see you and them having the same enemy: white westerners. It’s another thing that happens fairly often. Cultural discomunication that arise from that is quite similar to what’s going on in this precise thread.
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“I regard myself as “white”, because that’s my race, but I don’t identify with it. Race was never an important issue comparing to those more important ones, so I don’t build much on the fact I am seen as white. (If I am- some people say I am an “ethnic” white, which is just WTF to me, because all people have ethnicity, and white anglo American is equally ethnic as me. But I digress). I do think my race is white, but I don’t identify as such, in a way I’d never call whites “my people”. ”
I feel the same way. I see myself as black, but I don’t identify with most of the culture or mindset. Culture is important in America. I went to an Afrocentric schoolwhere is wasn’t consider a true black person because of some of my family customs, dialect, and the fact I don’t look “West African” Even to this day, I’m not consider “black” by some other bp and some non-blacks. Probably because I look like an anime character.Every group of people has a set of privalages. Like with men. I don’t understand why some men feel like sexism doesn’t exist or women need to shut up. I agree with Agabond about white folks, but Blacks are just as bad. Whites just are better at getting away with and Blacks don’t like to deal with. I don’t know. I just really dislike the sheep/herd thing with whites and blacks. Both need to wake up and smell the coffee. FYI, I’m not yellow or Hallie Berry type looking chick.
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Damn, typos. I need to drink my coffee and wake up before typing. LOL!
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“Are you really trying to tell me here that any bad experience I might have growing up in Serbia would be dominated by my nationality and ethnicity MORE than my race? Mira. Are you seriously trying to sell me this?”
You’ll be suprised. People are very shallow and will to nickpick on anything to feel better. I know some black folks that can’t stand foriegn blacks and dislike more than whites. Second, to latinos. I lived in minneasota, where there’s a of Somaili people. Some of bp would spit at me and mocked me because I don’t have “black” accent. How the hell is it any different from what white folks do ? Or what Japan and Korea ?
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Mira & Usagi. I am glad you two appear to have found some collective experiences to engage with. It should help with both your endeavors to formulate respective identities you both feel comfortable with.
Regardless of whatever either of you come up with. Its important to bear in mind that culture and identity are fluid and variable. They are expanding and contracting all the time. In the same way some aspects, just like fashion, will be in style one day and out the other. Thats because its a dynamic that we all contribute towards shaping and defining.
Having said that there are some “generally” agreed communal aspects to both what we determine to be “Black” or “white”. But it is still up to us to choose how we wish to integrate the general and specific aspects.
The experiences you both seem to have picked up on is: if you ‘re unwilling or unable to do this for yourselves society will do it for you!!!
Hence your uncomfortableness with completely associating with your respective definitions of “Black” or “white”
Perhaps if you thought of these designations as more loosely inter-connected and less permanently separated you both might feel less troubled.
What I am essentially explaining here is it up to you define your self honestly and positively in a way that feels appropriate for you. And if you not able to do it with the currently available or existing definitions then expand them or create new ones!
By way of example this is exactly what has happened historically and culturally with the term “Black”.
It has yet to happen to the same extent with the term “white”.
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Kwamla,
Thank you. Though I might say I am not troubled by the fact I don’t identify with my race. It’s simply not that much of an issue where I live. Not having clear ethnic identity, on the other hand, is a bit challenging, because society makes you choose, pick a side and self-identify. It’s such an important issue here, and not being clear on how you identify or how you feel about it is tricky.
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[…] of slightly more coherent posts by blogger abagond and re-posted by Tweedledum and Tweedledee: “white privilege mindset,” “Fanon: The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized,” and “hate crime […]
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Mira…I’m sure that if you lived here in the U.S., white privilege would apply to you. But I can tell that you’re the kind of person who would reject it because you have an open mind and a sense of awareness. Plus, you have somewhat of a different experience and outlook. 😉
I agree with all of those points. That seems to describe white privilege down to a science. Some white Americans are completely blind to their privilege. They just don’t know it’s there because they believe everyone has the same opportunities and life is fair. They aren’t inherently bad people, but they lack awareness of anything outside their world.
But the ones I have a real problem with tend to be VERY aware of their privilege. They’re smug about it. They want things to stay the way they’ve always been. They have the attitudes mentioned in the list above.
When it comes to racism, they say: “Why can’t you people stop complaining? Just get over it, for Pete’s sake!” They believe that racism is dead…but deep down they know it isn’t. They want to play the victim when it comes to certain issues, like saying that it is unfair if there are beauty contests specifically for Black women.
This is illogical, because beauty contests have always been mostly for White women. Being white was a requirement to enter beauty contests up until the 1960’s. Black women and other women of color weren’t permitted to participate because they were deemed ugly and inferior by whites. What is wrong with Black women being seen as beautiful…especially since they have been denigrated throughout history? It is pure selfishness and ignorance on the part of some white Americans. Black people were excluded from many facets of life, so white people should not complain when POC try to claim something for themselves.
My husband’s father complained about movies and TV shows that only feature blacks, like “Good Times”. He claims that it’s racist because there are no white people. He is also annoyed when a Black/Asian/Hispanic woman beats out a white blonde in beauty contests. In his eyes, the minority woman only wins because of political correctness…not because she is actually prettier and more refined than her white competitors. No, it couldn’t possibly be that! Everyone knows that white is right and blonde is best. *sarcasm*
And his rants about TV shows that only feature blacks are ridiculous. Come on, really? Maybe these shows and movies offered young Black children a sense of self-worth. We could relate to some of the characters and identify with them on some level. It isn’t about excluding white people. It’s simply about recognizing that POC have been marginalized and white privilege is connected with that.
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Haven’t read through all the comments but this post reminds me of a recent conversation I had with a white male friend/colleague. He made a harmless comment, the nature of which I can’t recall exactly, but I remember it had a stark privileged white male frame of reference. I said I felt differently because my experiences were different, which drifted the conversation into race. Everything that came out of his mouth after that changed my perception of him. He said he wished he WAS black because we get all the breaks, what with affirmative action and all that. Especially black women. There was no way I could convince him America is not a nation of black female privilege, with white male plebs like him at my beck and call. In the end he got angry at. Given his line of work and level of education, his views completely threw me. Part of his job is self-reflection. I mean, sure they hired me…but he advances while my director doesn’t even recognize me if I’m not sitting at my desk. 4 years in.
I read a great book on art (Ways of Seeing, J Berger). i thought the author’s point about male privilege and women in art was just as apt a description of white privilege as it relates to the black experience: “Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only relations between men and women, but also the relation of women to themselves.” In other words, instead of seeing ourselves, we see ourselves being seen. And so we seem to go through life, always objective, always accompanied by the other’s image of ourselves.
But change the subject/object relationship and watch the fur fly.
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So, I think this white privilege stuff is valid. We do have privileges that other groups don’t have. However, I do have a big problem with some far left POC and feminists who take this privilege thing too far. Then all the sudden, you could be discussing fly fishing or motorcycle maintenance and all the sudden by disagreeing with something they have said, it’s your privilege that has blinded you. It’s kind of ridiculous. I used to take the privilege thing on good faith. now I think some people just use it as a tool to shut men or WP up because they are angry.
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[…] re-posted by Tweedledum and Tweedledee (as “Crackraism [sic]- a mindset of hate!”): “white privilege mindset,” “Fanon: The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized,” and “hate crime […]
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“White History Month is the month that never ends.” Priceless
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[…] white privilege mindset […]
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Having a blog dedicated to critiquing a race you do not belong to is racist. If you do not agree, then multiply 1 by 100 and that is your percentage chance that you are a bigot.
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@ Jaes,
Criticizing racism doesn’t make you a racist. Trying to create a red herring by attempting to equate someone making blog posts about topics related to racism to actual racism? That’s ridiculous.
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Ace, if you think long enough, you’ll figure it out.
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@ Jaes,
So if I don’t agree with you, I’m either a bigot or I haven’t been thinking hard enough? Have you actually read what’s on this blog or are you just having an issue with someone discussing race in a way that doesn’t equal, “black people are bad”?
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Ace, yes I have read enough to draw an accurate conclusion. https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/do-i-hate-white-people/
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Discussing racism is racist?
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@ Jaes,
Accurate conclusion doesn’t equal personal opinion, especially if you fail to also see that people here are perfectly capable of telling the difference between a white person and a white racist. They’re sort of not one in the same.
Again, how does talking about racism and people who believe in and practice it equal actual racism?
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I swear. Sometimes the logic or lack thereof by some commenters on this blog astounds me.
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“Discussing racism is racist?”
****
Well yeah, in white Bizzarro America it is.
Slaves who hated slavery were racists!
Black folks resisting Jim Crow were racists!
Running from the Black Codes was a racist act.
Getting angry when unarmed black people are gunned down/murdered under the cloak of *LAW ENFORCEMENT is racist.
Blacks were banned from all white towns and counties across America because THEY were racist!
Marching for civil rights? Yup, racist!
Sitting at lunch counters, going to white schools, freedom rides across the south..
This blog? RACIST!!!!!
(well, at least according to dave and his chums
Not sparing white people’s feelings and telling bigoted white (incontinent and truthful) folks where they can go with their superiority crap – racist.
Heck, everything/everyone is rendered “racist” nowadays – (on purpose) so that the word becomes utterly useless and meaningless … WHITE SUPREMACY can continue its refinement and keep doing what its been doing..
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Jaes,
So what you’re saying is that we stop talking or writing about racism, it will magically all go away in a puff of glittery smoke?
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@ Jaes
Are you even remotely serious?
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@ Dimitri
Learn to express yourself without racial slurs:
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Hahahahahahaha! Yes ‘learn’ Dimitri.
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I’m curious. Does anyone ever notice while out how much better white women are treated by the public in general? If she is struggling with a bag, there is always someone (of all races) to help her. She is acknowledged more. Smiled at more. Helped more. Noticed more. It just seems like the world in general is kinder to white women. I’ll be glad when things turn around.
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@Kelly
“I’m curious. Does anyone ever notice while out how much better white women are treated by the public in general? If she is struggling with a bag, there is always someone (of all races) to help her. She is acknowledged more. Smiled at more. Helped more. Noticed more. It just seems like the world in general is kinder to white women. I’ll be glad when things turn around.”
You are joking right..? There are places where women are treated better or fairer but generally our gender can be an excuse to mistreat us or make assumptions. White women are no exception.
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Yeah that does come off as a joke.
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@ Cleonette Discussing racism is racist?
If one is using allegations of racism merely to incite hatred against others the way some of you do then yes.
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No I’m not joking. Anyone is delusional if they do not see that white women are generally treated better than others of that gender. You must be white if you don’t understand that. When is the last time you’ve seen a missing black woman all over the news? Let’s not even discuss the standard of beauty.
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^yeah but you didn’t say missing white woman syndrome at first–you said white women are treated better in the general public. That was not specific and furthermore, that statement is subjective.
Also, why do women have to be white if they don’t agree with you?
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@Kelly
I am a black woman. Each thing you mentioned happening for a white woman has happened for me. So no I do not notice any different treatment for white women by the general public. I DO notice that the media tends to put white women on a pedestal. But that is the media and does not represent the viewpoint of all of society. But I understand you better with your explanation. No disagreement here.
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Duck,
You said, “If one is using allegations of racism merely to incite hatred against others the way some of you do then yes.”
Nor this blog or some of its regular followers are using the allegations of racism to incite hatred against others, especially whites. This blog is not advocating a united militant front against the white race. This blog is about what it means to live in a white dominated society. It is an open forum where people of color can come, learn and even testify their thoughts and feelings. It is not pretty, but that’s not the same as advocating hatred.
If you want to go after websites that are inciting hatred against others, why not go to Stormfront or Chimpout where anti-black racism is the order of the day?
Most of us here don’t hate white people. I know I don’t, but why is it considered hatred if we talk about the things they do that is harmful to us? Furthermore, why shouldn’t we feel the emotions we experience based on those incidents?
Kelly,
You’re correct when it comes to media imagery, and I somewhat agree with you with white women being treated in public to a certain extent. I see it especially at my job. But like deedee said, women in general get the same kind of chivalrous treatment no matter who they are or what they look like.
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I get chivalrous treatment as well. So, you’re not the only one. But I’d be a fool not to notice that white women get better treatment – customer service, while shopping, etc.
Also, phoebe, what is your problem! You do not have to nit-pick on something that is my opinion and observations. This post is about white privileged and I was just putting in my two sense.
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This article is by a white woman.
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html
People can pretend that “White Female Privilege” doesn’t exist. But, until
you are actually slighted because of your race, (which I’m sure most have, just in denial), you should try to understand others experiences. I see it around all of the time. An older black woman struggles with her bag at the bus station or putting them overhead, no man helps. White woman – same situation, plenty of help. Black pregnant woman is standing in the subway. No one offers her a seat. White woman gets her seat. Shopping while black. Oprah and Halle Berry have said that when they are shopping minus glamorous clothes and makeup, they have been followed or snubbed by shop workers. It’s delusional to act as if stereotypes do not play a role into how people are treated.
I really don’t understand all the defense of white women. It’s true – the are more privileged in the media which leads to treatment in public.
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@ brothawolf Most of us here don’t hate white people. I know I don’t
Don’t be so sensitive. I didn’t mean all blacks. I was only talking about racist blacks.
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“Also, phoebe, what is your problem!”
What? Chill out girlfriend, no one here said you are not entitled to your own opinion.
I don’t see the point in black women all the time complaining about “white women this” or “white women that”. Black women can walk out of their homes and be shown respect by men when they are modest, have integrity and are perceived as wholesome–all of these are qualities associated with traditional femininity.
Besides that, i really don’t need the baby like treatment white women get from the media. I’m a fully grown woman who completes a fully grown man.
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You misunderstood. I wasn’t being sensitive or defensive. Just truthful. And my comment wasn’t referring to white people, but rather the things they do like assuming we are too sensitive about certain issues. Ha!
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Working in a grocery store when it comes to service given to white women versus black women, white women are more likely to get better service.
Admitably I work in the south, so take that as you will.
But I wouldn’t say black women are out and out denied decent service, just that white women are more likely to get better service.
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I am treated well by men, but I’m also not clueless to the truth. And I also empathize with others who are not treated well. It’s not about “white women this or that” it’s about striving to have equality on all levels and being clueless to certain truths doesn’t help anyone. If you’d read the examples, I’m sure the pregnant black woman who is not offered a seat is just as modest and wholesome as anyone else. Halle Berry is considered the epitome of femininity, yet she still gets followed in stores. I’m truthful regarding these things. I realize that race plays a role a lot of things.
And you are well aware (I hope) that the little things lead to larger. If white women are babied in the media, that opens the door for media outrage if one becomes missing, or their child. While black women are ignored.
But, I choose not to continue a discussion with someone who seems to choose to be unaware of how things are. You will just have to see for yourself.
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/01/treat-black-women-like-theyre-made-of.html
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Thank you v-4.
This experiment, “Shopping While Black” proves the point.
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“No I’m not joking. Anyone is delusional if they do not see that white women are generally treated better than others of that gender. ”
*****
I didn’t see any part of Kelly’s original statement that suggested a joke.
This blog/site’s MAIN THRUST supports, directly or indirectly, Kelly’s statement – in my opinion. It’s quite interesting how her comment was misinterpreted as a “joke” especially given the title of this thread – White Privilege Mindset…
I’m curious as to how and why this happened??
Does white skin advantage not work for WHITE women???
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Matari,
Some people CHOOSE not to get it – until it happens to them. I too did not see where anyone could conclude that my comments were a joke. I’m curious to know how that happened too!
As stated, they will experience it for themselves, and then it will not be a joke.
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I can only speak for myself.
I misunderstood Kelly’s original post as implying that in the private sphere white women receive more care than WOC. That is something that I do not see where I am from (Chicago) so for me personally I did not see the post as being serious. The treatment of WOC by businesses, media , etc. is where I see the different treatment. There was an article on how servers at a restaurant intentionally talk bad about and provide poor service to black patrons because they assume that they will be bad tippers (like the bad service wasn’t the reason -_-). Like I mentioned above, I have no disagreements with those observations. I just did not correctly understand Kelly’s original post and that is on me but my original reply remains the same.
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Yea, but i think were a lot of people miss the mark is assuming every little slight is about color. True enough–there are plenty of things that boil down to color to justify the mistreatment of people;especially black people, but yet and still it a complicated ball of wax, because humans are complicated.
Lots of times mistreatment of others have some classism mixed into. The missing white woman syndrome–if looked at closer reflects undertones of class and socioeconomic status. The Chandra Levis, Elizabeth Smarts, Jonbenet Ramseys are not only white women but wealthy white women or if not wealthy, from prestigious families. They folks can afford to dominate air time when they go missing. Yes socioeconomic standing is tied to color, but I have been in situations where other black folks mistreat me in their businesses because of perception and i have seen these same black folks mistreat white people because of their perceptions. And vice versa.
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I’m an observer, so in the private sphere, I do see the different treatment. No way to convince you, will just have to see or experience it yourself. I see what you’re saying about your thinking that my statement was a joke. But as Matari stated, this is the “White Privilege Mindset” post. Not sure why anyone would post something that falls in line with the title of a post just as a joke. It’s good that you never, ever see or experience the differences, but eventually you probably will.
Pheobe, I’m not sure how classism plays a role in media outlets as you don’t pay media for airtime. The media picks and chooses who they want to cover. And as I’ve stated before, very wealthy and influential black women have experienced the same treatment by shop workers. Tyra Banks told the story of how she and a friend was at a newstand in NYC looking at her SI cover. The shop worker shewed her away because they didn’t want her looking at the magazine. One of the wealthiest women in the country. But they did not know that. So, what did it boil down to? Her race. Some of these statements are very “Carlton-esque”. Remember the “Fresh Prince” episode where Will and Carlton are stopped by the police. Will sees the real issue, but Carlton refuses to see the situation for what it is and attributes the police harassment was due to them driving to slow. I just don’t see why some people refuse to “get it”.
That is all.
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“you don’t pay media for airtime.”
But people do.
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My husband (who is white) says that whites who are poor or don’t live around black people don’t have white privilege and that some whites have more privilege than others.
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@ Poetess
I really think you need to consider reading the blog to understand what white privilege is. I also think you husband is very wrong in that regard.
Take this quote for example: The white privilege mindset is the way of thinking that grows out of having white privilege, from the advantages of being white in America.
Even poor whites believe that they are protected by simply because they are white, They have more simply because they are white, etc. More doors are open to rich or wealthy whites but I have heard of situations where a poor white man will have more doors open than a rich white man.
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To Sharina:
Even poor whites believe that they are protected by simply because they are white..
Have you talked to many (or any) poor White about this..? Not mocking you, but I see this repeated often on blogs and in the press but I really don’t get that impression from poor Whites that I personally know.
I have heard of situations where a poor white man will have more doors open than a rich white man.
Again not mocking you but could give some examples..?
I have repeatedly seen middle class and wealthy Whites openly and comfortably mock what they see as stereotypical poor White behavior.
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@ Uncle Milton
I grew up in a town of poor to middle class whites. I admit it has gotten better but a perfect example is my uncle and his struggles. My uncle was beaten near death by poor whites in our town simply because he was riding his bike past them at night. Due to the privalge of being white not one was charged and my uncle has life scars. He sees them and none have apologized. Had they any fear of going to jail they would not have considered beating a little boy knowing they would end up getting, but due to their white privilage they knew they would not. thus me saying “Even poor whites believe that they are protected by simply because they are white…” White privilege among poor whites can be more highly seen in small towns than large cities. Now are all poor whites like that..? No, but until you truly experience it then even you would not know it. I mean the most I had a poor white person do to me was slap me and I had another tell me I was an unfit mother for giving my daughter a lollipop.
“I have heard of situations where a poor white man will have more doors open than a rich white man.”—This was actually a mistype. I meant to say I have heard of situations where a poor white man will have more doors open than a rich black man.
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@ Uncle Milton
Another more recent thing I would like to point out. My Uncle was recently called a N****** on his job by a white co-worker. My uncle is all about his work and does not feel the need to constantly socialize and will get on to others when they slack off. This was on such case and the young white guy felt he could freely call him that in the open. My uncle is an electrician so imagine the embarassment of having someone call you that on the job in front of God knows how many people.
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Sharina and Uncle Milton,
Speaking of states where white men feel priviledged and think they can do anything they want and no one will stop them.
Incident in Louisiana after Hurricane Isaac just a few weeks ago.
White man assaulted 3 black women, called them N-rs, and not 1 white man out of 6 lifted a finger to help them.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/09/25/louisiana-woman-spit-on-and-called-n-word/
I also heard this guy has a business in Ghana.
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@ Linda
Thanks for the information and the link. I actually had not heard about that at all. This reminds me of the black lady that was beat in cracker barrel by a white man in front of people and claimed he did it because she spit on him and then had the nerve to try and play the angry black woman card.
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@ Linda
That was a shocking but perfect example of what this post all about.
What I find most amazing and laughable in all of these accounts of white people exercising this “white privileged mindset” is this inability to take responsibility or be accountable for their own actions. Even to the point of denying them. Now why is that?
Even, as in this example, Where they are confronted with their own questionable behavior on video. Rather than owing up to it they would instead seek to deny it or destroy its evidence?
This in itself testifys to the existence of a “white” universally accepted behavioral privilege available, in their own minds, for their own exclusive usage.
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@ Kwamla
It’s a type of brain damage-as you already know. At least that is what I call it. White denial is a sickness aka white privilege. They call the shots so why would they want to make things equal/fair. If white benefits and all others don’t, why would they change that?
If anything is blog has help me to form new coping mechanisms to deal with this type of privilege. They aren’t going to change, why should they?
**Big ups to Abagond :D, keep up the good work!!**
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@ lifelearner
You’re right about the diagnosis. Its a type of mental illness but it can be cured…Thats because the perceived benefits are illusory. White people, just like everyone else, are all part of the global system of humans on this planet. They are not separate and unrelated, as the white privileged mindset has allowed them to historically and erroneously perceive themselves.
They, whether they like to acknowledge or admit it, are part of a balanced system. Just like an Eco-system. If for some strange reason they choose or decide to opt out of their responsibility for maintaining and developing this system then not only do they run the risk of disrupting and damaging the whole delicate structure for everyone else in it, But they also create damage for themselves. – This is the illusory challenge that they face. That it doesn’t affect them to behave in this way because they are separate. But it does! And they are not!
As anyone who has studied a balanced system will know any part which seeks to act in disharmony with this co-operative balance will eventually harm itself and risk being expelled from that same system in order for it to regain some form of sustainable harmony and control.
This is no different to what is being currently reflected in world affairs, economically, politically and socially today.
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Sharina,
I was reminded of the same thing.
Linda,
Thanks for the link.
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Brothawolf, you’re welcome.
Unfortunately, this reminds us about the “real” in the reality of the world we live in.
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Great post Abagond!
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An good point friend
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So true. I agree with this article
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Well, speaking of white priviledge mindset, but the story of the teenager driving drunk and killing 4 people and they let him off with a stint at a rich club med style rehab for the wealthy. The psychologist even had a name for this insanity, Affluenza, Really? I can’t believe that this brat gets off scot free, after creating what the police say was carnage in the wreckage. The psychologist said, he was abused by his parents by giving him everything. The psychologist vouched for him saying he doesn’t know right from wrong. This is just a huge stinking bag of dog dung. If this had been a black kid the judge would have given him life in prison. This is what white priviledge is about.
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All those who don’t like white privilege, why are you still living in a country founded and run by whites? Probably because of the luxuries you get here–you probably even think of them as “normal” to the point where white society or tech benefiting your life is completely invisible and EXPECTED.
You feel it DEARLY when it stops working, but otherwise, you shrug, right?
It’s EXPECTED to have constant electricity, Internet, cell reception. It’s NORMAL or SUPPOSED TO BE that way, right?
Go to a country where whites don’t have privilege. I recommend Somalia or Sudan. NOONE has privilege.
Or go to a country where nonwhites have privilege in THEIR own country and good luck convincing them to give it up. In that case, I recommend China. If Chinese benefit and all others don’t, why would they want to give that up?
They don’t. BUT they will defend THEIR privilege in THEIR country with tanks, not words!
Try burning down one of THEIR cities when a CHINESE cop shoots a thug. The results should be…educational!
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I am white and I don’t care what color I am. We all bleed the same. Everyone is made in God’s image. I love all people. I don’t care what color you are. If you hate me I am sorry. Until you walk a mile in my shoes (and vice-versa) you can not know what’s in my heart nor can I know what is in yours. The only thing I know is we were created in God’s image & that is all that matters. So, ask yourself where is your heart? Is it filled with hate (tools of the devil) or is it filled with Love, compassion (gifts from our heavenly Father)? One thing can end this hate and that is forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is only hate it is a vicious circle. Jesus died for (no matter your color) us. He forgives us for our sins. The least we all can do is recognize this fact and forgive one another in Jesus’s name. Those who hate their soul are filled with sorrow and pain. Love your enemy and edify one another. Jesus told us to love one another, through love is forgiveness. Will you choose to hate me for my words or will you choose to love because of what Jesus did? I choose love, I seek forgiveness, I forgive. This is where it begins. Anyone else willing to take the next step?
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I have to add one more thing, not that it will matter much here. I am so sorry for the behaviors such as Sharina stated. I truly feel sad and ashamed that these things go on. Please accept my apology for those who don’t or won’t. Sharina I felt that shame and embarrassment through your words.
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@keeper1029: Bless your heart you seem like a decent person. At least you didn’t come to this space like a virulent racist troll. I can respect you for that.
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A perfect example of White Privilege mindset is journalist Wendy Bell anchor for WTAE-TV in Pittsburg and it so offensive but it just goes to show how clueless and obtuse how many whites can be. There is a very good post thread on Very Smart Brothas website that talks about this foolishness and this ignorant woman’s rantings. It had face book lit up and many white posters rushing to her aid. White people just don’t care that they are offensive and only view the black community through their lens of “whiteness.”
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@ Mary Burrell
Thanks, that was some post at VSB!
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