A guest post by commenter Mira:
Keanu Reeves (1964- ) is a Canadian film actor, best known for the science fiction trilogy “Matrix” (1999, 2003, 2003), action thriller “Speed” (1994) and the comedy “Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure” (1989). He was one of the most famous actors of the 1990s. On this blog he was voted the fourth most gorgeous man in the world.
He was born in Beirut, Lebanon to an English showgirl and an American geologist, who was part Chinese and part Hawaiian. The name is of Hawaiian origin and it is a possible derivation of name Keaweaheulu. The meaning of the name is somewhat unclear. It is usually translated as “cool breeze over the mountains”, although it is said that is only true for the longer form of the name. The correct way to pronounce “Keanu” is kay-AH-noo, not kee-AH-noo or kee-noo.
Although born in Beirut, he soon moved to the USA and then Canada. He grew up in Toronto and considers himself Canadian, despite the fact he also has US citizenship and is entitled to British citizenship too.
Keanu dropped out of high school when he was 17 in order to pursue acting. He entered a school of the community’s theatre at 19, and had his international screen debut in 1986. His first big hit was the teenage comedy “Bill And Ted’s Excellent Adventure”, and his true claim to fame came in the 1990s, with “Speed”, “My Own Private Idaho” (1991), “Bram Stoker’s Dracula” (1992) and “Little Buddha” (1993).
His biggest success, however, came in 1999 with the “Matrix” trilogy, directed by Larry and Andy Wachowski. “Matrix” was one of the most praised movies at the end of the century and, despite mixed reviews of the sequels, made its way into movie history. The trilogy also made Keanu the highest-paid actor in the world. He is a somewhat limited actor but makes up for it on looks.
He is also an avid musician: he played bass guitar in the grunge band Dogstar during the 1990s and early 2000s.
Despite being mixed race, Keanu was almost exclusively cast in roles that did not specify a particular ethnicity and most of his characters were white. He was even cast in movies set in 18th and 19th century Europe. Also, most of his on-screen love interests were white women. So while he never denies his Chinese and Hawaiian ancestry it is clear movie producers cast him in white roles without a problem. He was never restricted to playing ethnic characters or minority stereotypes.
In 1999 Keanu suffered a tragedy: his girlfriend, Jennifer Syme, gave birth to a stillborn baby. Two years later, Syme died in a car accident. Keanu was devastated, and production of new “Matrix” movies stopped until he recovered. In the mid 2000s, he dated Diane Keaton, who is 18 years his senior.
What Keanu says about women:
It’s always wonderful to get to know women, with the mystery and the joy and the depth. If you can make a woman laugh, you’re seeing the most beautiful thing on God’s Earth.
See also:
Thanks for the post on Keanu, Mira! 😀
Keanu came to my hometown in 1995. He appeared in a stage play of Hamlet and he played the title role. My cousin watched his performance, and said the people in the audience was predominantly female. 😉 She also said as goodlooking as he was, his acting was stiff. Still, I think he’s really nice to look at. 🙂
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Grant it, he is not all that good of an actor, yet he’s definitely pleasing to my eyes, and somehow most of the time I’m able to let it go. The last time I was floored at least visually was when I first saw “Something’s Gotta Give.” I can see how he and Diane Keaton hooked up for awhile.
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his acting was stiff
It served him well in the first Matrix, no one but him could pull that off.
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I liked his movies Constantine and Matrix. He’s gonna be handsome with gray hair, although i wouldn’t mind if he would fatten a bit, .
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His acting in Dracula was wooden as well. Still hot, though. 🙂
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As a young teen, I watched Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure with my girlfriends when it first came out. One girlfriend remarked he looked part Asian. Another girlfriend protested he was fully white. I have mixed cousins – some half black/half asian and half white/half asian. I agreed with my first friend. My half white and half asian cousins had similar looks as Keanu.
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“Despite being mixed race, Keanu was almost exclusively cast in roles that did not specify a particular ethnicity and most of his characters were white. He was even cast in movies set in 18th and 19th century Europe. Also, most of his on-screen love interests were white women. So while he never denies his Chinese and Hawaiian ancestry it is clear movie producers cast him in white roles without a problem. He was never restricted to playing ethnic characters or minority stereotypes.”
In the US, someone is usually considered white if they look basically white (like Keanu) UNLESS they are of African descent. And it tends to be the case that only white-ish mixed people of African descent are subjected to wild and unfounded accusations of trying to “deny” their background by aggrieved minorities. This is what happened to Jennifer Beals after Flashdance was released, even though she never denied having fractional African ancestry.
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God that man is cute. Dark hair.. beautiful eyes..Not superhot, but just the right kind of sexy to take home.
But Keanu Reeves isn’t the first half white/half asian actor to be mainstreamed as white.. so is Kristin Kreuk from Smallville. Biracial means to completely different things depending on how you are mixed and how you look.
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So very sexy…. drools…
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“In the US, someone is usually considered white if they look basically white (like Keanu) UNLESS they are of African descent.”
Vin Diesel?
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He’s really hot. It’s interesting that he’s not restricted to minority roles-I never even knew he was mixed.
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I loved him in the Matrix trilogy.
Good post, Mira. Although I found the part about him playing white characters kind of…. unnecessary? But interesting, nonetheless. I think any mixed person who looks white is considered white (of course since people will not know otherwise) and can play white characters.
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He is a great actor. The problem is in the past, his performances have been inconsistent. Since the Matrix( and some before) he has turned out very strong performances( Street Kings, The Gift, Something’s Gotta Give) and in Toronto when he was young, he was accepted into a Performing Arts School.
He is also quite intelligent and is a voracious reader. He doesn’t like to show it. Anyone who can get thru A Search Through Lost Time by Proust and through the whole series is seriously smart.
He’s also been known to give a large amount of money away to charities (especially as his sis had cancer) and is known to be very kind hearted to fans
Definitely an inspiration to me.
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Natasha said:
“Good post, Mira. Although I found the part about him playing white characters kind of…. unnecessary?”
That part was at my request since it has come up before in other threads.
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Ah, okay.
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@King,
Yes, Vin Diesel has played white characters. Like when he was cast as an Italian-American solder in Saving Private Ryan. I think this is recent development (1990s or so), though. Some have attributed the failure of Jennifer Beals’ career to take off during the 80s to the fact that audiences wouldn’t buy her playing either white or black characters.
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In the US, someone is usually considered white if they look basically white (like Keanu) UNLESS they are of African descent. And it tends to be the case that only white-ish mixed people of African descent are subjected to wild and unfounded accusations of trying to “deny” their background by aggrieved minorities. This is what happened to Jennifer Beals after Flashdance was released, even though she never denied having fractional African ancestry.
This is true. It bothers me that there are many African Americans who were mad that Jennifer Beals played a white female in Flashdance. They also get made when Rashida Jones and Wentworth Miller play white characters in movies. They look [mostly] white so playing white characters make sense. I don’t see why their characters must be biracial or ‘light’ skin blacks. It’s silly. They’re acting, and not denying their mixed heritage like they’re often accused. If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.
The bizarre thing is that many “agrieved” African Americans don’t care when Halle Berry or Paula Patron, Terrence Howard play characters with two black parents.
And, in regard to Vin Diesel. If you visit his IMDB page, there are many African Americans accusing him of ‘trying’ to pass.
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Keanu Reeves and Johnny Depp are similar in this regard. However, I recall in the movie Constantine that the boy who played the younger version of Keanu’s character looked Eurasian. They didn’t just cast a white kid to play a younger version of him.
Keanu and Johnny won’t complain about being considered white, because it means they bypass ethe “ethnic” roles and are given many mainstream roles.
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King, yeah Vin Diesel is accused of passing every day by African Americans.
It depends on who you accepts/doesn’t accept them.
Mariah Carey, Wentworth Miller, Nicole Richie and Rashida Jones are all accepted as white in the US and the rest of the world. It’s American blacks who think of them as black, oddly enough.
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Sorry for being late here. There’s some problem with my Internet connection.
Keanu is a really nice guy- at least that’s what most of the people (who know him personally) say. He does seem to do his best, and it looks like he always wanted to be an actor.
In fact, he was interested in theatre, not movie industry, and it looks like that’s what he likes to do.
But he’s definitely not particularly good as an actor. He is a handsome man and it’s definitely nice to watch him on screen- but despite his obvious love for acting, he’s not really good.
I read some rumours about him having Asperger’s syndrome which doesn’t let them express his emotions in the right way- hence the lack of facial expressions and somewhat awkward presence on screen (when it comes to serious lines and acting). These rumours are most probably untrue, though.
I must admit he ruined a few movies with his lack of acting abilities- “Bram Stoker’s Dracula” being just one of them (but important for me because it’s really painful to watch him and Gary Oldman in the same scene).
Also, one “Dracula” trivia: Winona Ryder, who took the script and got Coppola to direct it, wanted her then boyfriend, Johnny Depp, to play Jonathan Harker. But Johnny was not famous enough at the time, and Coppola wanted a hot and popular actor to play Harker in order to make girls interested in this movie. So Keanu got the part, and it’s probably the worst role in his career.
This scene was cool, though:
So was this, but that’s another story: 😉
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Mel, where are all these “African-Americans” who are mad at Jennifer Beals, etc? Do they only exist online? Because I’ve never heard anyone even mention Jennifer Beals in real life; I don’t think she’s very relevant…
“Mariah Carey, Wentworth Miller, Nicole Richie and Rashida Jones are all accepted as white in the US and the rest of the world.”
…Not really. Many white people do not see these people as white (with the exception of Richie and maybe Miller – “ethnic white”). Especially not Mariah, my SO thought she was mixed Hispanic, he said “she doesn’t look like any white chick I know.”
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Natasha,
Like Abagond said, he was the one who requested the part about Keanu and white roles (and white love interests). In a way, it has nothing to do with his hotness or acting, but I admit it’s interesting to note the kind of roles are given to actors who look “basically white, but exotic” (Johnny Depp being another example- though I must admit Johnny look less white to me than Keanu).
FG,
In the US, someone is usually considered white if they look basically white (like Keanu) UNLESS they are of African descent.
You might be right, but please note that Asian males are often treated very badly in Hollywood. They are often portrayed as nerdy, unattractive, almost feminine. Complete stereotype. I honestly don’t know many Asian males who were presented as hot males in the mainstream movies, or many whose love interests were white women. Keanu never had this problem- he never denied being of Asian descend, but he is considered attractive, and he was allowed to have white love interests without a problem. And yes, that’s mostly because he looks basically white (if slightly “exotic”)- but isn’t the same with black actors who can pass for white? Jennifer Beals, Wentworth Miller- they often have white love interests, right?
As for Vin Deisel, I had no idea he was part black before someone mentioned that here. Same goes for Wentworth Miller. They look completely white to me, not even “darker white”.
People can’t escape their physical appearance. It’s not their “fault” they don’t look black (or black enough). As far as I udnerstand, none of them denied their African ancestry. So it’s definitely not their fault they can pass for white. But they are also actors, and actors play characters who are not them, but other people (that’s the whole point, isn’t it?) So I don’t care if Denzel Washington plays a white man, if he’s the best guy for the role AND if audience is ready to accept he’s white (which is one of the main obstacles- those who can’t pass for white can’t play white characters- or even “neutral” characters (without race specified, because we all know neutral means white).
So I don’t think it’s bad when actors play characters of ethnicities (or races) different than their own. Yes, even if those are white actors doing it. There’s nothing wrong with it per se. What IS wrong when it comes to whites playing people of colour, is the fact there are so many, many white actors, and black, Asian, etc. actors almost never get a proper chance and are not represented enough in movies and TV shows. So by taking a black character from a black actor, or Asian character from an Asian actor is cruel and offensive on so many levels.
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He was incredibly hot in Paula Abdul’s Rush Rush video. He smiles quite a bit in the video. He should do that more often. He has a great smile. I think this is the only video I could find that looked decent since almost all the embedded youtube clips of this song was disabled.
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Not to mention the history of blackface and yellowface….
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“You might be right, but please note that Asian males are often treated very badly in Hollywood. They are often portrayed as nerdy, unattractive, almost feminine. Complete stereotype. I honestly don’t know many Asian males who were presented as hot males in the mainstream movies, or many whose love interests were white women. Keanu never had this problem- he never denied being of Asian descend, but he is considered attractive, and he was allowed to have white love interests without a problem. And yes, that’s mostly because he looks basically white (if slightly “exotic”)- but isn’t the same with black actors who can pass for white? Jennifer Beals, Wentworth Miller- they often have white love interests, right? ”
This is true. Though I disagree with the characterization of these individuals as “black actors who can pass for white.” In my mind, that’s like saying “fat actors who can pass for thin” or “tall actors who can pass for short.” It doesn’t make any sense.
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“People can’t escape their physical appearance. It’s not their “fault” they don’t look black (or black enough). As far as I udnerstand, none of them denied their African ancestry. So it’s definitely not their fault they can pass for white.”
So looking white is a bad or shameful thing?
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@King,
“This is true. It bothers me that there are many African Americans who were mad that Jennifer Beals played a white female in Flashdance. They also get made when Rashida Jones and Wentworth Miller play white characters in movies. They look [mostly] white so playing white characters make sense. I don’t see why their characters must be biracial or ‘light’ skin blacks. It’s silly. They’re acting, and not denying their mixed heritage like they’re often accused. If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.”
Well, the likely motivation in many cases is indeed to prevent them from getting hired at all. As I mentioned before, ODR is a conscious political strategy to suppress mixed race people.
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This is true. Though I disagree with the characterization of these individuals as “black actors who can pass for white.” In my mind, that’s like saying “fat actors who can pass for thin” or “tall actors who can pass for short.” It doesn’t make any sense.
Fair enough. I meant to say “actors who have African ancestry”.
Also, it is possible to think of fat actors who can pass for thin, or tall ones who can pass for short (well, more precisely short ones who can pass for tall). It happens all the time on screen. What I’m saying is, it’s not as absurd as it sounds, though I must admit it’s not the same as with passing for another race.
So looking white is a bad or shameful thing?
It’s not shameful per se, but it is true they are sometimes seen as “not black enough”. Although being not black enough often has nothing to do with how you look.
I understand the wish of some black people for biracials to play biracials or blacks even if they can pass for whites. But the problem is, there are more white characters, or “neutral” characters (which is the same) and they often end up playing those. There’s nothing wrong with that (if script is not disrespectful). It’s not like they’re denying their black ancestry with the fact their skin is light and their eyes blue, which makes producers cast them in white roles.
This is my only explanation for the “hate” people like Jennifer Beals, Vin Deisel or Wentworth Miller might get from blacks. – Though I must admit I never heard black people trashed any of them. If nothing else, they are usually praised for being able to pass for white but refusing to do so.
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Also, I do think that many people would find absurd for Wentworth Miller to play a black guy. Biracial, yes (Human stain for example), or even black but with an explanation. But I do think many people wouldn’t buy him as a typical black guy. So it’s expectable for him to play white or biracial characters. I see nothing strange or surprising about it.
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If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.
Keanu and Johnny won’t complain about being considered white, because it means they bypass ethe “ethnic” roles and are given many mainstream roles.
Wow!! If you’re not white, get wayyyyyyyy back in the line, folks!!!
Skin lightening creams are flying off the shelves!!!
Say it with me, Being (Not white) Sucks.
Be White or Die Colored!!
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Although his acting isn’t exceptional, I’ve always respected how well Keanu Reeves treats his fans. A good friend of my sister told her how polite/nice Keanu was to her when she ran into him at a restraunt and asked to take a pic with him. Given the extremely arrogant way today’s “reality stars” and other overhyped mediocrities behave, it’s refreshing to see stars who appreciate their fans and treat them with respect.
Ironically, he’s gracious to fans despite the fact that he says he doesn’t feel entirely comfortable with Hollywood fame.
An interesting piece of info. I discovered about the Matrix is that the author of the story (Sophie Stewart) on which the movie was based is a BW (please see below), .
Black Author wins The Matrix Copyright Infringement Case.
-This little known story has met a just conclusion, as Sophia Stewart, African American author of The Matrix will finally receive her just due from the copyright infringement of her original work!!!
-Monday, October 4th 2004 ended a six-year dispute involving Sophia Stewart, the Wachowski Brothers, Joel Silver and Warner Brothers. Stewart’s allegations, involving copyright infringement and racketeering, were received and acknowledged by the Central District of California, Judge Margaret Morrow residing. Stewart, a New Yorker who has resided in Salt Lake City for the past five years, will recover damages from the films, The Matrix I, II and III, as well as The Terminator and its sequels. She will soon receive one of the biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood, as the gross receipts of both films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars. Stewart filed her case in 1999, after viewing the Matrix, which she felt had been based on her manuscript , “The Third Eye,” copyrighted in 1981.
-In the mid-eighties Stewart had submitted her manuscript to an ad placed by the Wachowski Brothers, requesting new sci-fi works. According to court documentation, an FBI investigation discovered that more than thirty minutes had been edited from the original film, in an attempt to avoid penalties for copyright infringement. The investigation also stated that “credible witnesses employed at Warner Brothers came forward, claiming that the executives and lawyers had full knowledge that the work in question did not belong to the Wachowski Brothers.”
-These witnesses claimed to have seen Stewart’s original work and that it had been “often used during pre preparation of the motion pictures.” The defendants tried, on several occasions, to have Stewart’s case dismissed, without success. Stewart has confronted skepticism on all sides, much of which comes from Matrix fans, who are strangely loyal to the Wachowski Brothers. One on-line forum, entitled Matrix Explained has an entire section devoted to Stewart. Some who have researched her history and writings are open to her story. Others are suspicious and mocking. “It doesn’t bother me,” said Stewart in a phone interview last week, “I always knew what was true.”
The unequal way Hollywood treats mixed race Blacks (and actors of other mixed races who can “pass” for White) compared to mixed race/other minority actors (who can’t pass for White) is unfair/wrong because the former are able to benefit from White privilege (more roles, higher pay, more success with less effort) than the latter.
Hollywood’s racist color game also reinforces racism in American culture at large.
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“I understand the wish of some black people for biracials to play biracials or blacks even if they can pass for whites. But the problem is, there are more white characters, or “neutral” characters (which is the same) and they often end up playing those. There’s nothing wrong with that (if script is not disrespectful). It’s not like they’re denying their black ancestry with the fact their skin is light and their eyes blue, which makes producers cast them in white roles.”
There are quite a few films made with black characters, even films with all or almost all black casts. I think blacks are pretty well-represented in cinema. Asians and Hispanics not so much.
I think the hostility directed towards Jennifer Beals and other predominantly white mixed celebrities has more to do with the fact that many feel threatened that such persons actually exist and have obtained a measure of social prominence. The mixed stars blacks audiences tend to favor are the 50/50 types who still look pretty black like Halle Berry or Alicia Keys. On the other hand, when the white-ish mulattoes take center stage, some can get pretty nervous.
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Of course. That must be it. They’re all just threatened of Jennifer Beals and her ilk’s “prominence” (!).
🙄
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I never got that Jennifer Beals was playing a White roll back in Flashdance. I think I remember that she had a White grandmother or something? What made the roll White?
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jade, don’t twist my words. My point is that there are far more roles, and far better roles written for white people than for non-whites. Only a handful of ‘specific’ roles are written for biracial people, and a handful of stereotypical ‘sidekick’ roles are written for blacks.
If actors like Wentworth or Rashida want to get hired for quality roles, and frequently so, limiting themselves to only the right ‘biracial’ or ‘black’ roles won’tdo the trick for them, since there aren’t many of those roles in the first place.
Johnny Depp and Keanu, by bypassing the ‘ethnic’ roles, get a broader access to better quality roles, than if they were seen as non-white.
If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.
Keanu and Johnny won’t complain about being considered white, because it means they bypass ethe “ethnic” roles and are given many mainstream roles.
Wow!! If you’re not white, get wayyyyyyyy back in the line, folks!!!
Skin lightening creams are flying off the shelves!!!
Say it with me, Being (Not white) Sucks.
Be White or Die Colored!!
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Mel, your words speak for itself.
Yes, it sucks to be a non-white person. That’s the conclusion. Many of the comments have already alluded to that.
If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.
Keanu and Johnny won’t complain about being considered white, because it means they bypass ethe “ethnic” roles and are given many mainstream roles.
please note that Asian males are often treated very badly in Hollywood. They are often portrayed as nerdy, unattractive, almost feminine. Complete stereotype. I honestly don’t know many Asian males who were presented as hot males in the mainstream movies, or many whose love interests were white women.
The unequal way Hollywood treats mixed race Blacks (and actors of other mixed races who can “pass” for White) compared to mixed race/other minority actors (who can’t pass for White) is unfair/wrong because the former are able to benefit from White privilege (more roles, higher pay, more success with less effort) than the latter.
Hollywood’s racist color game also reinforces racism in American culture at large.
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^That last unbolded statement was meant to bolded since those were not my words and I’m quoting.
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I would disagree that there aren’t “mainstream” roles for minority actors. Ever hear of Will Smith or Denzel Washington?
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All these complaints about light mixed actors landing “white roles” merely amount to an appeal to (re-) banish such individuals to the shadows of American society.
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FG,
There are quite a few films made with black characters, even films with all or almost all black casts. I think blacks are pretty well-represented in cinema. Asians and Hispanics not so much.
Of course there are all-black movies. But I was referring to mainstream (read: Hollywood) films, not independent movies, or those made by blacks for blacks. The truth is, mainstream media don’t want you to see blacks outside a few known stereotypes (ghetto, saphire women, magical Negros)… There are a FEW roles here and there, but there are much, much more quality roles for whites.
Also, I do agree about Hispanics and Asians- they are not well represented, but neither are blacks. There are plenty of Asian or Hispanic movies (made outside US), and while there are plenty of quality ones, I am talking about Hollywood here.
I think the hostility directed towards Jennifer Beals and other predominantly white mixed celebrities has more to do with the fact that many feel threatened that such persons actually exist and have obtained a measure of social prominence.
I really never heard about blacks hating on Jennifer Beals or Wentworth Miller. I might be wrong about this, but actually all I read were positive comments. Because unlike Halle or Alicia Keys, these people can pass for white, but they choose not to and are proud to state their mixed ancestry.
The mixed stars blacks audiences tend to favor are the 50/50 types who still look pretty black like Halle Berry or Alicia Keys. On the other hand, when the white-ish mulattoes take center stage, some can get pretty nervous.
This might be true because of a simple reason: black people want to see more people who look like them on TV. Whatever their ancestry might be, Wentworth or Jennifer Beals don’t really look black- so by putting them on TV and giving them “general” roles can actually show the way whites see them.
Now, I don’t udnerstand what you want to discuss here. That Jennifer Beals and Wentworth Miller and Vin Deisel have the same right to be recognized as mixed like Halle, Alicia or Lenny Kravitz? Of course they are mixed just like those other people- their phenotype is not important.
But you seem to believe that black people are those who “don’t let them” be mixed. Or am I missing something here?
I would disagree that there aren’t “mainstream” roles for minority actors. Ever hear of Will Smith or Denzel Washington?
For every Will Smith or Denzel Washington there are hundreds of quality black actors who can’t get decent roles. Will and Denzel are just two actors- while there are virtually hundreds of better known white actors (and it’s not just because of the fact there are more whites in America).
Plus, I don’t know about Will Smith, but many of Denzel roles were “black” roles, in a way he played a black man and not a “general”, everyday American.
As for actors and minority roles, like I said, I think Asian men got it worst. In most of the cases, they are not even treated as males.
Same mistreatment can be seen with black actresses. Hollywood definitely don’t know what to do with all those talented ladies.
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“This might be true because of a simple reason: black people want to see more people who look like them on TV. Whatever their ancestry might be, Wentworth or Jennifer Beals don’t really look black- so by putting them on TV and giving them “general” roles can actually show the way whites see them.
Now, I don’t udnerstand what you want to discuss here. That Jennifer Beals and Wentworth Miller and Vin Deisel have the same right to be recognized as mixed like Halle, Alicia or Lenny Kravitz? Of course they are mixed just like those other people- their phenotype is not important.”
Okay, you’re having comprehension problems because you’re trying to analyze the internal social dynamics of a country you’ve never lived in nor even visited. Uncritically consuming the highly cliched and one-sided thinking (e.g. “magical negro”, “rented negro”, “acceptable blackness”) that prevails on this blog will not do you much help.
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“For every Will Smith or Denzel Washington there are hundreds of quality black actors who can’t get decent roles. Will and Denzel are just two actors- while there are virtually hundreds of better known white actors (and it’s not just because of the fact there are more whites in America). ”
You understand America better than most Americans. You have such insight. Will and Denzel are only two actors out of a slew of white so that hardly qualifies as equal. This arguement is similiar to the “black president” arguement. “Well you have two promienent black actors, you should be happy”.
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It’s true there are only a handful of major black actors and a mass of unsuccessful ones. But this it true of white actors as well.
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FG,
So I should just STFU because I’m not an American and I never visited the place? I was just trying to get what you were saying- obviously there are some things I don’t get because I’m not an American. If you feel it’s a waste of time to talk to somebody like me, ok. I just didn’t buy some of the things you said, like Will Smith argument. I don’t have to be an American to see there are not enough black actors (or actresses- especially actresses!)
And while yes, there are many unsuccessful white actors, who can’t get quality roles for some reason (often unfair one), it’s not the same with black actors. The percentage is simply not the same. How many blacks are there in America? 12%? I don’t think there are 12% truly successful (superstar) black actors out there, especially if you consider “general” (no race specified) roles.
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“So I should just STFU because I’m not an American and I never visited the place?”
Now don’t confuse me with Hathor!
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I meant to say, there are many unsuccessful white actors, just like there are many unsuccessful black actors- but it’s not the same. Sometimes it is (if they suck, for example- thought lack of talent didn’t stop many from becoming famous). But there is always another factor- there are not enough black actors in Hollywood movies because there are not enough roles for them.
Now, there are many roles for them, but producers and directors won’t cast them because they a) often don’t make quality movies about black people/with black characters or b) they are unable to picture a black actor in a “general” (neutral, “all American”) role.
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Now don’t confuse me with Hathor!
Wha… I thought you were the one who wrote: “Okay, you’re having comprehension problems because you’re trying to analyze the internal social dynamics of a country you’ve never lived in nor even visited.”
So I might be over-sensitive, but that did sound like “you are not an American so you should not talk about this”.
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” they are unable to picture a black actor in a “general” (neutral, “all American”) role.”
Denzel Washington was in a movie titled “John Q” in which he was the archetypal John Q. Public, a generic working class man confronted with the (alleged) injustices of the for-profit healthcare industry.
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Obviously, FG, there are a few (but only a few) black actors who are “allowed” to play general characters. I never said there were none. But “few” is a key word here.
Similarly, white actors often don’t play white characters- they play neutral/general/all American characters all of Americans (and often not just Americans) should identify with.
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“So I might be over-sensitive, but that did sound like “you are not an American so you should not talk about this”.”
You can talk about these matters of course, but you’ve got to be informed. There has been a great deal of discussion about Brazil on these boards lately, but notice that I mostly ask Thad, Color of Luv, and others who have lived there what it’s like because I’ve never been to the place.
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I guess I should be more sensitive though because being American is the international analog of being white. Or at least that’s how many non-Americans seem to view it.
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And I did ask you, and all of the other Americans here “what is like”- I always do that. (In case you didn’t notice).
But when it comes to certain things, like watching a movie for example, I am a consument just like you. The fact my culture is different doesn’t make me unable to post my opinions. Of course, you know your culture better and of course you can correct me if I’m wrong (and I guess I am often wrong).
But the problem is, you didn’t convince me with your arguments, because I don’t have to be an American to know there are not enough black (or Asian, Hispanic) actors in “general” roles- I watch the same movies and TV shows as Americans (and probably more- but that’s another issue). So of course you can correct me, but “you are not an American so you don’t understand” is not a valid argument, not because it’s untrue, but because it doesn’t offer a proof there are enough black actors in general roles, which is an issue here.
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I guess I should be more sensitive though because being American is the international analog of being white. Or at least that’s how many non-Americans seem to view it.
Sorrry, no. Being an American is simply that- being an American. While Europeans tend to be pretty racist, most of them (us?) are not that fixated on race- they (we) are more fixated on nationality and ethnicity (not to be confused with race).
Because Europeans know there are many, many (many, many) whites that are NOT
a) members of their own ethnic group (and therefore maybe are their enemies- despite being white)
b) Americans
American, on the other hand, are often unaware about the world outside America. So they (and not non-Americans) are the ones who see “general” as “white”. While others (Europeans, for example) often make the same mistake, it’s the most prominent in America, because that’s where being white means the most.
Well, for white Americans “being white” means more than for your average European, I can assure you about that.
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“But the problem is, you didn’t convince me with your arguments, because I don’t have to be an American to know there are not enough black (or Asian, Hispanic) actors in “general” roles- I watch the same movies and TV shows as Americans (and probably more- but that’s another issue). So of course you can correct me, but “you are not an American so you don’t understand” is not a valid argument, not because it’s untrue, but because it doesn’t offer a proof there are enough black actors in general roles, which is an issue here.”
Alright. We can agree to disagree with respect to the representation of blacks in acting. I do agree that there is an under-representation of Hispanics and Asians.
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Now, obviously, I don’t think all Americans see the world that way (personally, I didn’t meet many of those stereotypically ignorant Americans who think, for example, that Europe is a continent), but if you have to talk about the worst characteristics, seeing Americans as white is more of an American, not a non-American thing to do, I’d say.
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Mira said:
““you are not an American so you don’t understand” is not a valid argument”
I agree 100%. That amounts to an ad hominem.
Outsiders will get many things wrong – but if they are wrong, it should be easy enough to prove without resorting to “You are not American, blah blah, blah”. Meanwhile there are certain things that it is way easier for outsiders to see.
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Alright. We can agree to disagree with respect to the representation of blacks in acting.
Ok. Seeing things in one way or another is often subjective.
Some people, for example, don’t notice if there are no black characters in a movie, but think there are “many” blacks if there are more than two minor black characters. I’m not saying you are one of those people. In fact, I think I am. While I do notice when there are only white characters, I tend to see a few black characters as “many”- because it’s unusual for me to see any black people.
But that doesn’t change the fact I don’t see many black actors in general roles, or decent roles in Hollywood movies. Though you might say I can, like you, name two or three (Will and Denzel, maybe Eddie Murphy?)- but I can’t think of many (any?) Asian or Hispanic actors. (Please help here. Are there any Hispanic actors that are “allowed” to get general roles? Asian? – the closest to Asian actor who get such roles I can think of is Keanu.)
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Abagond,
I don’t mind being corrected for not knowing about America or what’s going on out there. I simply didn’t buy Denzel and Will as enough of a proof for black actors getting “general” roles. Obviously, FG knows more about America than I do, but it has nothing to do with what I said, especially given the fact it’s something you don’t have to be an American to notice (since all the planet watch Hollywood movies).
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FG talks about Brazil, Creoles, etc. all the time despite not living in or having visited Brazil or New Orleans. In fact, he often takes on the role of “informant” and makes definitive statements about groups of people and places he has no dealings with. So this disagreement on the premise that someone is not American so they can’t discuss America is highly amusing coming from him.
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“FG talks about Brazil, Creoles, etc. all the time despite not living in or having visited Brazil or New Orleans. In fact, he often takes on the role of “informant” and makes definitive statements about groups of people and places he has no dealings with. So this disagreement on the premise that someone is not American so they can’t discuss America is highly amusing coming from him.”
I don’t recall this. I’ve discussed these topics but have never had pretenses of being an “informant.”
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Natasha W:
LMAO.
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Islandgirl said:
“Will and Denzel are only two actors out of a slew of white so that hardly qualifies as equal. This arguement is similiar to the “black president” arguement. “Well you have two promienent black actors, you should be happy”.”
I agree.
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“This might be true because of a simple reason: black people want to see more people who look like them on TV. Whatever their ancestry might be, Wentworth or Jennifer Beals don’t really look black- so by putting them on TV and giving them “general” roles can actually show the way whites see them.
Now, I don’t udnerstand what you want to discuss here. That Jennifer Beals and Wentworth Miller and Vin Deisel have the same right to be recognized as mixed like Halle, Alicia or Lenny Kravitz? Of course they are mixed just like those other people- their phenotype is not important.
But you seem to believe that black people are those who “don’t let them” be mixed. Or am I missing something here?”
Okay, what I was trying to argue is that there is an ongoing campaign to suppress mixed individuals who are phenotypically white or close to white. Due to white people’s domination of society, such individuals are often viewed as a potential threat by conventional minorities and anything that makes them more socially mainstream (like starring in a movie) is seen as problematic for this reason.
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Mira,
What you just described (noticing more than 2 Black characters and seeing that as “many”) has been scientifically demonstrated and proves your point. People are more likely to overestimate the proportion of Blacks (I don’t know if the study has been replicated with other groups) in a given sample precisely because they are used to seeing so few. It seems like the fact that you can point to a couple standout examples demonstrates (in the laymen’s sense) that there aren’t very many. Even when you compare actors, someone like Kathy Griffin (who’s supposedly on the D-list), is still probably more well-known than Viola Davis (an Oscar nominee).
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FG,
I’m not sure that makes much sense. What kind of tangible negative effects can minority communities have on “white-looking people”? If anything, it seems like the opposite–White people by and large have the power to exclude those people from the film industry (or whatever) and might do so because they worry about them “playing the [Black, Latino, Asian] card” or some nonsense. White people in particular seem very unsettled when they can’t “figure people out” (and that doesn’t just apply to people of mixed backgrounds). Given that they don’t want to be labelled “racist” (whether they say/do something racist or not), a self-identified non-White person penetrating the White club is a threat to their image as color-blind WIWLs.
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What you just described (noticing more than 2 Black characters and seeing that as “many”) has been scientifically demonstrated and proves your point. People are more likely to overestimate the proportion of Blacks (I don’t know if the study has been replicated with other groups) in a given sample precisely because they are used to seeing so few.
Exactly. People who live in mono-race world tend to do this. Because they are so familiar with seeing people of their own race AND NOBODY ELSE, they notice every person of another race and tend to believe there are more of them than there actually is.
Personally, it made me believe there were more blacks in America than there actually is. I thought that at least 40% of Americans were black.
Now, I don’t know about America, but in my culture, it’s the same with Asians, but not “Latinos” because they are most often seen as white.
It’s also not a good thing and I’m trying to get rid of it, but it’s difficult.
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And when I said “monoracial world” I didn’t mean on cultures with just one race (like mine), but any person’s community or circle. As far as I understand, whites can live in certain parts of America and don’t get to have much contact with people of another race.
FG,
Okay, what I was trying to argue is that there is an ongoing campaign to suppress mixed individuals who are phenotypically white or close to white.
Who runs that campaign? Blacks, or whites?
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This “campaign” sounds like a delusion. Nearly every black woman I know that has heard of him likes Wentworth Miller as an actor and person and/or thinks he is attractive. Check the “Most Gorgeous Man” nominations post and notice the many nominations he got, and all from black women. Black people are hardly trying to “suppress” him or others. I doubt they even think about them in regards to their whiteness and what that means. People in general don’t think that deeply. Really… the whole idea is very outlandish. I have no clue where it’s coming from.
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“Who runs that campaign? Blacks, or whites?”
Black militants. Notice that whenever the topic of “passing for white” comes up, the person who raises the issue is almost always black. Furthermore, this person usually pretends that whites are really concerned about “infiltration” by these “passers” and that they themselves are against the One Drop Rule and view it as racist. In reality, the opposite is generally the case. The most hardcore one-droppists in the United States are black. BTW, ODR is an example of what Hitler referred to as the politics of the “Big Lie”, in this case the bizarre notion that someone of predominantly European ancestry who looks white is actually black.
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you’re sexi men and very interest, so I like know more about you.
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Full disclosure:About two years ago,I spoke to a Dramatic Arts Professor at my alma mater,the University Of Windsor.
During the conversation,I asked this gentleman,a former
casting director in his sixties,which roles someone such as myself should seek.Without hesitation,he said “Character
roles.” This despite what I’ve long been told are my leading-man looks and VERY GOOD elocution.(I’m said to read,speak and comprehend English on a first-year Post-Gradaute Student level.)Further,this man advised me to seek “working class roles,”i.e.,labourer,plumber,auto worker,etc.,DESPITE the my above listed fortes.
Because my build-I’m 5’8”,210-225 lb. with 171/2″ biceps-
is my only blue-collar trait,if this man is indicative of big-
and-small-screen casting directors,it means such folk-AND THEIR FINANCIAL BACKERS!!!-can’t relate to brawny older but STILL TELEGENIC BLACK MEN.How about some feed-back,fellow posters?
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I didn’t know about his wife’s death until our teacher told us to search about famous movie actors then I remembered this guy that he acted amovie which was one of my favourites called(MATRIX)….I am really sorry about his wife’s death but luckyly his kid survived…thanks to God that he is atleast dating anew wife..
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I think it was in Speed where I noticed “Wow, a Eurasian actor in a lead male role playing something other than a stereotypical role” and it did not occur to me that he was any particular ethnicity – could have been anything.
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I was surprised to learn that he was mixed race. Unless they have the clearly east asian eyes, half-asian half-white folks typically look white. I recently learned that the Tilly sisters (Jennifer & Meg) were half Chinese.
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jade
If they limit themselves to “biracial” or “black” roles, they’ll never get hired.
Keanu and Johnny won’t complain about being considered white, because it means they bypass ethe “ethnic” roles and are given many mainstream roles.
DDK:
That is not the point, the point is that since it’s inception, Hollywood has always used allegedly “white” actors and actresses with a little something extra racially to promote and define the boundaries of “whiteness” and it is usually borrowed heavily from black culture. Mae West for example who was of black blood and had a persona derived heavily from black culture, Ava Gardner, Rita Hayworth, Merle Oberon who was Sri Lankan and British, her mother used to pretend to be her maid. Now Hollywood is passing on this tradition in it’s “representation” of the black race, more often that not a “black” male character in a Hollywood feature film will be married to a white or non-black woman, black woman, who r invisible in hollywood will be represented by “bi-racial” women, the most desirable black woman in Hollywood and like Lena Horne, is rarely seen on-camera is Halle Berry who is the off-spring of an African-American father and a White British Mother.These Actors and Actresses represent the desire and the ability for the non-white masses to be re-classified as caucasians no matter how dubious their bloodlines are..Are U exotic and have that undefinable exotic factor that launches a million fantasies all over this globe, like Vin Diesel who is so obviously black it’s a joke when he says he is half-italian and “other”.. I have never heard this man admit to being black, then Hollywood can “use” u to push the boundaries of what “white” is..
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^ Same with me – I instantly saw Keanu Reeves as multiracial (without looking it up) and have never mistaken him as just “white” for over 20 years now, even if he is playing a character which seems to be white (then, I think of him as a multiracial person playing a white person). I saw him in person when he was promoting his movie “Constatine” and he even looked hapa-haole to me then too. So, I get terribly confused when people get surprised about it. Even where I live now, I think the vast majority know that Keanu Reeves is multiracial, so I really wonder why so Americans are surprised to learn this.
I also suspected Dean Cain might be Eurasian when I saw the Lois and Clark series, and confirmed it later. However, I never got that vibe from Mark Paul Gosselaar, even after seeing his photo with his mother – his mother is the one who is Eurasian looking.
I used to participate in multiracial forums, and nearly all multiracial part-Asian people said the same thing.
@poetess
I guess most people don’t have good Eurasian radar – I thought the Tilly sisters were part East Asian, part Caucasian the first second I saw them. Later I learned their original surname was Chan, which seemed to suggest which of their parents was Asian.
I think the problem is that most people tend to categorize people into monoracial categories at the first moment and ignore all the other clues. Then they get upset if the person does not conform somehow to the category that they assigned them to.
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I always thought he might have Eskimo or Pacific Islander heritage. He was exotic looking same as the Tilly sisters.
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For the record, Keanu Reeves is of 1/64th Chinese and approximately 17/64 Native Hawaiian ancestry.
http://ethnicelebs.com/keanu-reeves
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Sorry, make that 1/64th Chinese and 15/64 Native Hawaiian. It is hard to count.
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I know you quoted your source, but is it possible that the source is inaccurate? When he visited HK last time they interviewed him and he said he was 1/4 chinese. I was there in person about 5m away from him when he was being interviewed and it was broadcast by speakers.
Of course, he might have just simplified it for the reporter’s question. And his actual ancestry might be complex and the exact quantum might be too complex for him to actually have to quote all the time.
Is it possible that he says one thing to one reporter and another thing to someone else?
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SOME ONE CAN HELP ME FIND k EANNY COZ IM LOFE SO FAR FROM kAZAHSTAN
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plz help me met him im love hiw so much plz friiends help me plz
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I had no idea Keanu Reeves was happa for years. When I was a kid watching Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventures, I just assumed he was a white guy because he had the late 80’s California “dude” thing down pat. I’m also half-Asian/half-white, but most people can tell I’m Asian or mixed with Asian and something else. Many people simply refer to me as “Asian”. Many people always suggest that I only should pursue Asian women in dating. It’s usually an insecure non-Asian male trying to knock me down a peg by telling me I should do this because women of all races have shown interest in me. I’m 6’1″, all types of people, male and female, tell me I’m good looking all the time and I know it’s a fact. But Keanu seems like he has a greater privilege because he can completely pass for being white and his most Asian feature is his black hair. I am ambiguous and different people see different things when they look at me. Some people think I’m white, some people think I’m Latino, some people think I’m lightskinned half-black/half-white, some people think I’m 100% Asian. It varies upon who I surround myself with most of the time.
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I kind of had a suspicion he was mixed with something not sure what it was. I thought he might have been Native American or Asian.
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I like him in the the Devil’s Advocate and Constantine and the Matrix and Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. And The Lake House with Sandra Bullock
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Despite being mixed race, Keanu was almost exclusively cast in roles that did not specify a particular ethnicity and most of his characters were white. He was even cast in movies set in 18th and 19th century Europe. Also, most of his on-screen love interests were white women.
Interesting that on this blog in general, there seems to be as strong belief about how people are perceived racially but someone with Keanu’s ‘racial’ mix is able to successfully pass this colour bar. Are there others like Keanu? Would people like Dorothy Dandridge be successful in the same way as Keanu for example and if not why not? Does it perhaps depend what your racial mix is?
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^ There are plenty.
For example, Maya Rudolph and Fred Armisen on SNL have been able to play a wide range of ethnic characters, including white, Asian, Hispanic and Black.
Jennifer Beals has played roles that are ethnically ambiguous.
I can think of many others.
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I agree that Keanu doesn’t come off as white in Speed. With a tan and the short haircut he reminds me of my brother at times in that movie. Plus his character doesn’t act like a white cop. It wouldn’t be so believable that he was so good with the people of color on the bus and that they all liked him so much if he was played by a white actor, especially in LA in the early 90s.
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@Speak Out
When I first saw Speed, he didn’t come across to me as white at all either. I thought he looked Eurasian or some other mixed race person, and his character role did not come across as white either, probably for some of the reasons you mentioned.
To tell you the truth, he doesn’t really come across as white either in the Matrix. In fact, by making him “the One”, he came across as non-race specific comic book character who is treated like an outsider. A regular white guy would not have pulled off that role as well (as someone who is more ethnically ambiguous).
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@jefe
I agree that Keanu has a good look for the Matrix, but the Matrix has some weird racial sh*t going on anyway, with only Black and white people in the future world, and those white people extreme white liberal looking old white women with dreadlocks, and the only Asian people being computer programs, and no Indigenous people. Casting the Architect as a pretentious arrogant old white man who likes to throw around logic jargon and the Oracle, who wants to subvert the status quo, as a poor old Black woman with intuitive powers, was a good choice, however.
A role where Keanu comes off as white to me? Devil’s Advocate.
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I simply love you keanu reeves
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