Ta-Nehisi Coates on the new immigration law in Arizona, SB1070, making the excellent point that how you see the new law depends in part on how you see the police:
Essentially, Arizona has made it a crime for anyone in the state to not have proof of citizenship on them at all times. Defenders of the law will say that police still have to stop you for something, and they still have to “suspect” that you did something.
Forgive, but I don’t find that comforting. Amadou Diallo is dead because the police “suspected” he was drawing a gun. Oscar Grant is dead because the police “suspected” he needed to be tased. My old friend, Prince Jones, Howard University student and father of a baby girl, was murdered by the police in front of his daughter’s home because police “suspected” he was a drug-dealer. (The cop was not kicked off the force.) Only a year ago, I was stopped in Chelsea, coming from an interview with NPR, because police “suspected” I was the Latino male who’d recently robbed someone.
This comes down to police power, and how comfortable you are with its extension. George Will, in a bit of populist demagoguery, implies that the critics of the Arizona law are people who only know illegal immigrants as cheap labor. But I suspect Will mostly has the exact same relationship with illegal immigrants. Moreover, I suspect that he only knows the police as the kind of Officer Friendlies who only arrest “the bad people.”
I don’t want to be cheap here, but it needs to said that when you actually know decent people who are dead because of our insane drug war, your perspective on police power changes. This is a multi-million dollar lawsuit waiting to happen. Someone is going to get killed. And the fact that “the vast majority of police are awesome” will not bring them back.
See also:
This guy nailed it. Most of the people supporting this bill are white Americans, and as you have stated before most of them have an almost childlike trust of the police.
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Can someone help me with this?
So some African-Americans are against Arizona SB1070. (Not saying black people should be for it!)
Where are the Latinos (that don’t identify as black) who are against the racial profiling that black men experience all day everyday with or without a bill? Who’s going to do something about that?
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SW6,
This is true…Most whites believe, whether consciously or subconsciously, that this implementation will not adversely affect them. They dont fit the aesthetic in question, hence why it is so easy for them to co-sign such a measure.
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I co-sign all of SW6’s comment, especially this part.
“…whites know what game is being played and that it’s skewed in their favor…
This strategy also allows for the removal of (in their eyes) racial and social undesirables who in a cyclic downturn no longer need to be tolerated.”
Whites, for the most part, know that the police aren’t the “fair and helpful” law enforcers that they purport to be. There are some walking around with rose-colored glasses, but many know the game.
I’ve had whites that engage in illegal activities say to me that they would have been in prison a long time ago if they were black. In my SO’s hometown which is 95 percent white, they see how the blacks on the “wrong side” of town are treated as compared to them, but they view it as getting rid of the “chaff” and will make up all kinds of excuses as to why this treatment is justified.
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I’ve had whites that engage in illegal activities say to me that they would have been in prison a long time ago if they were black.
True, I have heard this also…I believe a commenter that goes by the moniker of Uncle Milton has said something similar before.
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the new world order police state has begun. even white people should be saying this is not what their ancestors signed up for. but anyone with half a brain knows what the real deal is: this law is meant to spread and once again the bottom line is to lock up black males. in ny, atlanta, dc the police will be gunning for haitians (this may be the real reason for the man made haarp earthquake, to say that illegal haitians are moving to america, which is the perfect excuse to arrest black males). america, you are no longer the land of the free.
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Last night on Fox News, there was a debate on the bill. The two men had this conversation:
Anti-bill: The police will racially profile.
Pro-bill: You don’t trust the police?
Anti: No. Do you think Joe Arpaio’s doing a good job?
Pro: Yes I do.
That’s about it. If you like “law and order” (contemptuous of civil liberties) and “tough on crime” (cruel to suspected criminals), then you’ll like this bill.
IOW, if you’re a delusional authoritarian, you’ll like this bill.
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Any thinking person should be terrified of policies like these. Giving police the power to stop anybody in the streets, citizen or not, and demand to see “papers,” smacks of proto-fascism. Nazi Germany, Stalin Russia, Apartheid South Africa, these are the kinds of places where this is how the police are empowered to act. I don’t care what your politics concerning immigration are. Even the most strident believer in stopping illegal immigration should be horrified by this policy.
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right now alot of whites hate the local police in my area because a police officer killed a white guy who was in trouble because of some road rage incident. he shoved the suspect down a flight of stairs.
what really pisses me off is how it only matters when the victim is non-black. then all of a sudden outrage is considered legit.
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Co-sign Blanc 2. I can’t believe some of the reasoning on here!!
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As someone who has been stopped by the police because I “look like a robber” and asked to show ID – something I thought the police only did in countries under apartheid and communism – I completely and utterly oppose this law.
Asking for ID has absolutely nothing to do with upholding the law. It is a form of INTIMIDATION – a way to make people afraid of the police and keep them in line.
If this law gets to the Supreme Court and is upheld, that will be a sad, sad day. Racist policing will no longer be just a dirty little secret but the law of the land.
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MerriMay said:
“Co-sign Blanc 2. I can’t believe some of the reasoning on here!!”
Same here.
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Listen folks, the law isn’t about cops just asking random “brown people” on the street to show their proof of legal status. The law clearly says that they can only ask AFTER a legal incident can an inquiry be made and even then only if there’s reasonable suspicion that the person is undocumented. Yeah, I know everyone is up in arms about “profiling” but let’s get real here, if you live in a state with lots of illegal immigrants, you can spot them from a mile away. We weren’t born yesterday. Just drive by a Home Depot or any street corner in an industrial area and they will all fit a consistent profile.
And what’s so harsh about deporting them anyway? With the way people are protesting, you’d think we were hauling them off to Gitmo. What is so inhumane about sending illegal aliens back to their country of origin? Isn’t that what every other country does? Why should we be any exception?
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You people are ridiculous!
Look at other countries, NON-WHITE COUNTRIES!
You jump over their borders you either will be jailed until they want to let you go–Yet all the pillow biting liberals say nothing
You jump over their borders and you just might not be seen again–You don’t care…The white man was not to blame
Yet, in ALL WHITE COUNTRIES they get health care, a license and job…smh
GTFOH!
I say build an electric fence! You want to come to the US of A??? Stand in line like the rest of the law-biding citizens..bottom line.
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I dont know if the Arizona thing is right or wrong, but, for those of us who have to devote huge energy to keeping our immigant status legal, seeing huge amounts of people doing it ilegal , is confusing.
It shouldn’t be confusing.
I wrote an article about this awhile back, regarding my experience in Brazil. I’m posting it on my blog right now.
Read it and tell me why you are confused why some people NEED to do things illegally.
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/como-nao-se-faz-um-brasileiro.html
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^Btw, above comment is specifically directed to B.R. and other Portuguese readers on the board. The article is in Portuguese.
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wait, i meant the one that plays baseball who made the same exact statement…don’t know his name.
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instead of fixing iraq we need to fix mexico so they will stop coming here.
And why is it necessary to keep Mexicans from going there in the first place?
But here’s a solution to your problem: give the U.S. southwest, which was stolen from Mexico, back.
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instead of fixing iraq, we need to fix mexico so they will stop coming here…blacks should be supporting the deportation [since] whites will keep choosing them over us if we don’t nip it now…the illegals that are invading my state…i say get rid of them all.
Reading this reminded me of the rhetoric used by the Far Right over here (ie UK). As well as the Malcolm X Speech:
“On the difference between the Black Revolution…and the Negro Revolution’…We sick boss”
ha ha
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@ Thad,
Not sure if you were aware of this, but the largest illegal immigrant population in the U.S. aside from Mexicans which hold the #1 spot are (drum roll) – Brazilians.
I’ll go check out your article.
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Sorry, that’s not true, Col. Where are you getting that statistic from? Brazil has anywhere from 250,000 to 1.5 million immigrants in the U.S.
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i am all for giving texas back…every time they want to secede because of their irrational fear of Democrats, I cheer them on because I certainly won’t miss Texas or other southern states for that matter.
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i know my views on illegal immigration and immigration in general leans very close to the far right…i said somewhere else probably on the other post that my most conservative view is illegal immigration. other than that i am moderate to liberal on everything else.
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ha ha ha no worries…
Its good of you to come out and say so.
I think what it shows is that we can hold ‘contradictory’ views both good and bad and still be decent people
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I’ll check it out Thad, it may have changed in the last few years, especially with Brazil’s strong economy. I was looking at the stats about 5 years ago. I’ll see where I can find it.
Also, I’m a bit torn on my feeling of Illegal Immigration: I’ve had very dear friends near Chicago who were from Illegal parents coming into the U.S, that are now “legal citizens”. Later in life, I have been friends with Illegal Brazilians who made it into the U.S. by way of Mexico. (Flight to Mexico, pay the coyotes to run them through.)
By the way, a large illegal population exists in Marietta, GA & the greater Atlanta area. A lot of your “White” maids are poor Brazilians who clean houses there. Its a cash only business and can be quite lucrative once the person has established a number of houses.
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@ THAD – Keep in mind many “illegal Brazilian Immigrants” also come in via legitimate Visas/Passports, especially prior to 9/11. They came -or- come in on student visas, tourist visas and then simply never leave.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/09/15/brazilian_illegal_immigration_into_us_is_targeted_by_mexico/
QUOTE: (Via 2005)
“The number of Brazilians detained at the US-Mexico border in the 12 months ending Sept. 30 is more than three times higher than the total detained a year earlier. From virtually zero a decade ago, undocumented Brazilian migrants detained in the United States will exceed 30,000 this year. Brazil now ranks behind only Mexico, Honduras, and El Salvador as a sender of undocumented migrants.
(I could have sworn I saw another stat that placed Brazil just behind Mexico at another date.)
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Col, I’ll buy fourth place, after Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras, but remember: that was ENTERING the U.S. in 2005, not total of undocumenteds in the U.S. Brazil would be way behind a series of other countries if that were the case.
But as someone who did his masters on immigration, let me just say that those sorts of newspaper articles are really, really bad sources. Journalists basically feel free to quote anyone in authority and very often those guys just pull stats straight out of their a$$holes, especially when it comes to a politically-loaded issue like immigration.
First of all, it wasn’t “virtually zero” a decade ago. In 1995, Brazilian immigration to the U.S. was already very well established.
Second of all, even by this report’s calculations, we’re talking 30,000 undocumented Brazilians a year entering the U.S. As compared to, say, 2-3 million Mexicans jumping the border. 7,000 Brazilians are detained for every million other illegals, so that gives us a much better picture of what this flow is like.
Finally, fluxes like this jump up and down year by year, so it’s difficult to say that this is long-term trend.
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Ha , Thad, well, heavy duty (I thought you said you got your citizenship ) I could trade war stories, as well as intense beaurocracy to just keep three peoples paper work together, and , initialy , a lot of the steps and missteps you had to take, Ive been stopped by the police and groped for being a gringo , ushered down to some very itimidating immigration people at the airport for some strange paper work ,and ripped off by a lawyer, and ended up getting the resident visa myself .
But, exactly because I have had to jump to keep it legal, I dont just think its hunky dory for people to be jumping back and forth illegaly. But, I dont have some set in stone for or against position yet, and, refuse to be nudged one way or the other, Ill make the desician myself , not from fast clippy statements on blogs about what Im suposed to think (not saying that to you Thad)
I am no fan of the Republicans and their policies , but, Im not going to knee jerk on this one, basicly because I dont know Arizona well enough. I need to hear what people there think, what their experiances are about the problems up close.
That is why Eursulie’s point of veiw up close ,in work situations in Las Vegas ,gives at least some insight to other sides to this situation.
This Mexico border thing , with an unveleivable drug trade flooding into the American market, and , gang violence that can reach across borders, needs to be examined on its own terms.
That being said, I dont like the idea of any American citizen of Hispanic background, having to feel he is a foreigner in his country.
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Thad, well, heavy duty (I thought you said you got your citizenship )…
Huh? Lost me there, B.R. Please be more specific.
But, exactly because I have had to jump to keep it legal, I dont just think its hunky dory for people to be jumping back and forth illegaly.
And you think that, say, Bolivian immigrants in SP or Mexican immigrants in the U.S. aren’t legal because they WANT to be illegal…?
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@ Thad
The irony I find myself in is that my wife and I are both “legal” in the U.S, yet we have a couple with whom we are friends with that are illegal. Both had combined incomes of about $100K almost entirely non-taxable. They have two beautiful children born in U.S. hospitals with medical expenses paid by my tax money. My wife resents this for various reasons yet we love our friends to death.
I stand on a more even keel telling her she could always have avoided the legal hassle we dealt with for the last three years and come here illegally. She could clean houses and not pay taxes if she wanted to… But then she would not have her “cush” Mkt/Ad job that she worked so hared to get over the past three years. (by the way, she is working withe Veja & Editora Abril as partner-clients.)
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article in mangueblog :
“O fato de Jude ter falhado em sua busca para se tornar brasileiro …” “the fact Jude failed in his search to turn Brazilian…”
I kind of thought this was your storry , Thad, and you just used the name of “jude” , but, it was you…There seem to be many things parallel with your tragectory in Brazil.
And you said in another thread that you were a Brazilian citizen…or did you just mean your resident visa is in tact or you got it in the last 2 years (since the article is in 2008?
As far as illegal immigrants wanting to be legal, all I can say is , I jumped through heavy hoops to be legal in both countries ,I dont just give a wink to illegal immigrants and say get away with what ever you can when I have to stay up with the beaurocracy at every step with both countries for three people.I just had to help my son go through a 5 or 6 step process to re new his Brazilian passport and they wanted all the army info and new identity mambo process. Big pain in the rear and expences at every step and serious time drain.
As I have said, Im not so anti illegal immigrant, but, Im not going to just base my opinion about it on anything you or any one else on here will say. I will be making the desician on how I feel ,exactly as I see it ,in the time that is suitable to me.
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B.R. sez:
I kind of thought this was your storry , Thad, and you just used the name of “jude” , but, it was you…There seem to be many things parallel with your tragectory in Brazil.
Two things there:
1) Anthropological ethics prohibit me from identifying my informant, but anthros usually don’t write about themselves.
2) This article was originally written in 2006. You notice, I’m sure, that we are now in 2010.
As for illegal immigrants, you tell me how an Angolan boy who’s a refugee from his country’s civil war and thus an illegal immigrant and currently living in the Maré, probably without any dosuments at all, can “jump through the hoops” and I’ll agree with your position.
The fact of the matter is, both you and Jude are privileged to be ABLE to jump through the hoops. And in Jude’s case, even that privilege didn’t do him very much good, did it? As I say at the end of the article, “If this guy couldn’t do it, how does anyone expect an illegal immigrant or one with no cash and no papers to do it?”
Jude spent several thousand reais on his perfectly by-the-book attempt to jump through the immigration hoop, got illegally turned down and only got saved from deportation because he had the savvy and the cash to hire a good lawyer.
Given his experience, I can completely understand why many immigrants in Brazil (or the States for that matter) think it’s better off to leave sleeping dogs lie.
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In my town there are a lot of illegal immigrants. At a community meeting there was an immigration lawyer who spoke about what it takes to immigrate here legally from Mexico. Correct me if I am wrong but he said it takes like 25-30 years now because of the backlog. There are only so many slots each country is alloted, and Mexico gets some ridiculously small amount and so it becomes nearly impossible to do it legally if you are an average person from Mexico. Besides you have to have a sponsor living here and a job already. Basically, I’m just saying I do understand why some people realize that for them it is impossible so they give up going the legal route. I don’t agree with illegal immigration but it seems some people have no hope and do what they can. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s a messed up situation.
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I like this observation:
“I don’t agree with illegal immigration but it seems some people have no hope and do what they can. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s a messed up situation”.
However, if we being honest to the ‘game’.Tthen the real question would have to be:
‘But what about ALL the ‘illegal immigrants’ excluding the ‘Native Americans’??
And what will be done if anything at all to bring the ‘rightful people’ (ie Native Americans) back to what was/is their ‘rightful position’??
Hmmm!!!
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“As for illegal immigrants, you tell me how an Angolan boy who’s a refugee from his country’s civil war and thus an illegal immigrant and currently living in the Maré, probably without any dosuments at all, can “jump through the hoops” and I’ll agree with your position.
The fact of the matter is, both you and Jude are privileged to be ABLE to jump through the hoops. And in Jude’s case, even that privilege didn’t do him very much good, did it? ”
I mean cmon ,Thad, you just said it, “privillege didnt do him very much good did it?” so back the “privilege ” bs off
Why would an Angolian boy travel so far to Brazil, or, even a Bolivian, when Brazil’s unemployment rate is so high ? When it really isnt an immigrant freindly country?
In each individual case , you have to look at aspects that they made good or bad desicians based on their individual reality. A lot of people are making bad desicians.
Brazil even had an amnesty thing where illegal immigrants could come into the system , which gives these case situations you mentioned, chances also.
geez, what ever , about whether its you or not in your article, first you say it has details about your experiances then you say its not you…..man, cut the games , Thad
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I mean cmon ,Thad, you just said it, “privillege didnt do him very much good did it?” so back the “privilege ” bs off .
B.R., I know you don’t like to consider yourself to be privileged, but you are. So is Jude. He has a university education, is white, male, middle class, knows Portuguese very well, has never been illegal… All of this gives him (and you) a leg up in the game. In Jude’s case, his privileges didn’t give him an automatic “in”, but they worked in other ways. He could AFFORD an immigration lawyer, for one. That’s a HUGE privilege right there and it didn’t simply come from the fact that the guy worked hard, brushed his teeth and said his prayers to Jesus every night like a good little boy.
Why would an Angolian boy travel so far to Brazil, or, even a Bolivian, when Brazil’s unemployment rate is so high ? When it really isnt an immigrant freindly country?
You pride yourself on being in tune with Brazil and are unaware of the fact that we have significant numbers of Angolan, Nigerian, Chinese and Bolivian illegal immigrants here? This is all over Veja, Istoé, the nightly news…. It’s hard for me to believe that you’re that disconnected, B.R.
The Angolan kid’s situation is not hypothetical, B.R. There are tens of thousands of these guys in Rio right now and I’ve talked to many of them. Why don’t you ask one? They are not that hard to find, even in Bahia.
Answering your question though, I would say because:
1) The situation in Angola is THAT bad that even Brazil looks good. Most of the guys I talk to mention avoiding obligatory military service in the civil war as huge incentive for migration.
2) Given that Angola speaks Portuguese and has several treaties with Brazil, it’s much easier for them to get here and blend in than it is, say, in the States.
3) Given that Brazil’s media has thoroughly colonized Angola, they at least feel that they know something of what they can expect here (though that’s mostly an illusion).
Brazil even had an amnesty thing where illegal immigrants could come into the system , which gives these case situations you mentioned, chances also.
Again, you betray a fundamental ignorance of how immigration works, in general, and in Brazil specifically.
There are actually three types of immigrants:
1) Regular. That’s you and Jude. You followed the laws, did the appropriate paperwork and got residency status and, in Jude’s case, naturalization (I’m presuming people know the difference there). This is a very difficult route in Brazil and, at a minimum, it generally requires marriage to a Brazilian to succeed.
2) Irregular. This is most gringos’ situation. You came over on a legitimate visa and overstayed. The amnesty covered these people and these people only.
3) Illegal. You jumped the border without a visa or were told to leave the country but didn’t. These people were NOT covered by the amnesty and include most of the Angolans, Chinese, Nigerians and Bolivians. Typically, these guys come over by ship and jump ship without ever clearing customs. In the Bolivians’ case, they just walk across the border like the Mexicans.
So amnesty didn’t even begin to touch our illegal immigrant problem, which is what this discussion is about, after all.
geez, what ever , about whether its you or not in your article, first you say it has details about your experiances then you say its not you…..man, cut the games , Thad
B.R., my “experiences” include my studies of immigration in Brazil, do they not? However, I gave you a very good reason why this isn’t “games”, above. It’s ethically impossible for me to reveal ethnographic sources, even if I wanted to.
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Thady “You pride yourself on being in tune with Brazil and are unaware of the fact that we have significant numbers of Angolan, Nigerian, Chinese and Bolivian illegal immigrants here? This is all over Veja, Istoé, the nightly news…. It’s hard for me to believe that you’re that disconnected, B.R.”
Its so bogus of you to make dumb statements like that, of course I know about these things.
If you are talking about a case by case situation, I just dont reccomend people trying to enter into Brazil illegaly
You just cant make a point without being condenscending, can you , Thad
I would say to all these immigrants from all these countries, that no matter how bad there situation, I wouldnt reccoment them coming to Brazil, and, I dont care what you say about “privilege ” if several things were to happen in my life, it would throw me and my family into chaos . Ive been living my life on a tightrope to not make those things happen. I really dont need your petty bafoonish analasys of my situation, or what you think it is, because you hardly know.
People make their personal choices, they have to deal with it.
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Which article are you referring to here please?
“This article was originally written in 2006. You notice, I’m sure, that we are now in 2010!”.
Cheers!!
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Its so bogus of you to make dumb statements like that, of course I know about these things.
Alright, fair go. So if you know that, then why say things like the following:
Why would an Angolian boy travel so far to Brazil, or, even a Bolivian, when Brazil’s unemployment rate is so high ? When it really isnt an immigrant freindly country?
The fact of the matter is this: they are here, they are illegal and it is very difficult for them to legalize their situation. You recognize this if you “know about these things” and yet you also seem to find it surprising.
If you are talking about a case by case situation, I just dont reccomend people trying to enter into Brazil illegaly
Most people who do it don’t do it on a lark, B.R. They do it because really, truly, things are worse in the places they are coming from.
You just cant make a point without being condenscending, can you , Thad.
From my point of view, B.R., I’d say that you can’t stand it when someone disagrees with you and shows your oppinions to be less than factual. This is what you call “condescending”. Your view that amnesty resolved illegals’ situation somehow: that was simply wrong and it was wrong because – unaccountably, given the fact that you’re an immigrant – you seem ignorant of the difference between “irregular” and “illegal” when it comes to immigration.
In this sort of situation, B.R., it ain’t condescending to tell you that you’re simply wrong.
I wouldnt reccoment them coming to Brazil, and, I dont care what you say about “privilege ” if several things were to happen in my life, it would throw me and my family into chaos . Ive been living my life on a tightrope to not make those things happen.
No one’s claiming that your situation is comfortable.
What I am saying is this: with all your privileges and bennies, if your situation is bad, think of the situation of the illegals who have none of your privileges and bennies. It is far worse. It’s thus kind of nasty and short-sighted of you to complain that they “aren’t working the system correctly” when the system doesn’t even work for a relatively privileged, relatively wealthy immigrant like you.
You ain’t rich, but I very, very much doubt you’re living hand-to-mouth in a favela as many fo the Angolans I know are. Or working for sub-minimum wages (BRAZILIAN minimum wages) in the São Paulo clothing industry like the Bolivians.
You’ve got some cultural and economic capital, B.R. and by your own admission, the system still doesn’t work well for you.
Imagine, then, how it works for those who don’t even have YOUR levels of capital and then ask yourself why they aren’t “jumping through the immigration hoops”. The answer is obvious: they have nothing at all to gain by doing so and everything to lose.
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The article is up in Portuguese on my blog, J.
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Thady “Most people who do it don’t do it on a lark, B.R. They do it because really, truly, things are worse in the places they are coming from.”
me : oh that really is inciteful and convincing, considering it would take quite an effort to get from Angola to Brazil, with so many other countries in the area of Angola, you tell me Brazil is the only option ? And, with poverty so great here and unemployment, a Bolivian thinking lets just go there as some option, shows lack of judgement on their part.
Thady”From my point of view, B.R., I’d say that you can’t stand it when someone disagrees with you and shows your oppinions to be less than factual. This is what you call “condescending”. Your view that amnesty resolved illegals’ situation somehow: that was simply wrong and it was wrong because – unaccountably, given the fact that you’re an immigrant – you seem ignorant of the difference between “irregular” and “illegal” when it comes to immigration.
In this sort of situation, B.R., it ain’t condescending to tell you that you’re simply wrong.”
You really blog foolishly , Thad, I never contested you on that point.Yet you are ready to nail me to the wall as though I bet the farm on that argument.You are really must be desperate…go take a chill pill
You havent convinced me of anything,just gone around in psyche circles, flapping your cybor lips and being flippant and condescending.
If your point is that someone in poverty , jumped country lines illegaly, with no recources , is worse off than me, I mean doh ,your grasp of the obvious borders on awesome.
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B.R, again, Brazil is not the only option: it is a good option. Secondly, whether or not you believe it to be a good option the FACTS of the matter – as you yourself have recognized – is that these people are here.
So why the hell are you trying to argue that Angolans don’t illegally immigrate to Brazil when you yourself already recognize that they do?
Is this just to spend virtual saliva or is there a point to your continuing to argue that Angolans don’t come to Brazil?
And, with poverty so great here and unemployment, a Bolivian thinking lets just go there as some option, shows lack of judgement on their part.
Now here’s a really wild thought, B.R. Hope it doesn’t blow your mind. Are you ready for it? here goes…
Maybe you should talk to those Bolivians, as I have done, and ask WHY they come.
Pretty radical methodology, huh?
When you DO talk to them, what you hear is that, as bad as things are here, they are worse in Bolivia. This shouldn’t be any stretch of the immagination, presuming you’ve kept abrest of recent happenings in that country.
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geez, Thad, with countries in South America like Chile, or other Spanish speaking countries, Brazil doesnt seem like the best option to me for a Spanish speaking person looking for a better life.
Just because people make desicians doesnt mean its the best for them in reality.
What is your point about Angolians in Brazil ? I never said they werent here, I said there are better options for them.
If you are saying they are here and that is what we have to address, all I can say is, I dont sit around hoping they will get busted, but, this is their choice and they have to live with it.
I made my choices and I have to live with that. And, I have to tell you, pretty much since I got to Brazil, after the two years , I was dealing with 3 people. And, I would never make a move to better our lives that I couldnt calculate that I wouldnt be putting us all in jeaprody. I didnt bite off more than I could chew.If these are young single men, they have less responsibility and can take chances . I couldnt. And , I wouldnt take those single men chances, and even still, Im in a situation that could blow up in my face if certain things happened,but, it is calculated , and, totaly calculated to not be under the board and busted to mess us up.
I deal with my situation , I never wanted to be a country line jumper, I cant relate to that style any more than |I can relate to a persons choice to sell drugs.
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What is your point about Angolians in Brazil ? I never said they werent here, I said there are better options for them.
Not according to the ones I’ve talked to, but I suppose you would know more about their situation than they do.
Thad, with countries in South America like Chile, or other Spanish speaking countries, Brazil doesnt seem like the best option to me for a Spanish speaking person looking for a better life.
Yeah, which is why all the Mexicans immigrate to Spanish-speaking countries, right?
The Bolivians are going where they can find work: SP’s clothing industry. Again, ASK them about it and they will tell you why they are here. Unless, of course, you feel you know more about their options than they do.
I deal with my situation , I never wanted to be a country line jumper, I cant relate to that style any more than |I can relate to a persons choice to sell drugs.
B.R., seriously, really, really, really: you have no concept what these peoples’ lives are like and I will repeat it once again: they don’t do this for the hell of it.
Here’s an article I recently wrote about some of these folks in SP:
http://www.brazzil.com/component/content/article/200-january-2009/10186-hoping-these-poor-in-brazil-will-inspire-more-than-just-a-liberal-guilt-trip.html
And to compare illegal immigrants to drug dealers is simply ignorant in my book.
I cannot believe that a person who is an immigrant himself can be that badly informed and prejudiced to boot. That’s just sad. I guess it just goes to show how Republican snake oil can screw the heads of even the most unlikely people.
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Thady’s saliva “Yeah, which is why all the Mexicans immigrate to Spanish-speaking countries, right” (me :yeah, they have more countries on their borders than bolivia )
more dribble “And to compare illegal immigrants to drug dealers is simply ignorant in my book.
I cannot believe that a person who is an immigrant himself can be that badly informed and prejudiced to boot. That’s just sad. I guess it just goes to show how Republican snake oil can screw the heads of even the most unlikely people”
me : I mean, these are some of the weakest arguments ive ever heard in cybor blogging history.
As a matter of fact, thank you , Thad, because , instead of my normal knee jerk responce to republican bs, just because of your weak arguments attacking me, implicationg Im prejudice, Im going to wait extra long and take my time to make my desician about this issue in Arizona after Ive really heard from people in Arizona and all the sides there. Not some hack job posturing by a self absorbed condescending thinks he knows it all like yourself.
As far as your article you refferred to, no thanks, I have charities that I try to give to when I can , not reccomendations from someone who I just dont trust.
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…Oh, by the way, just some observations on Jude…..SINCE HE ISNT YOU, AFTER ALL….
The guy sounds like a blowhard, arrogant , self absorbed turd, who thought he could just put something over on PF.
He sounds like he goes through life thinking he is above everyone else and can just outsmart anyone around him.Probably likes to lecture any poor soul unlucky enough to be within ear shot. He is probably lucky he hasnt had his face broken with such arrogance and false ego
He is lucky they didnt bounce him out of the country right away….but, ITS NOT YOU
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Thady’s saliva “Yeah, which is why all the Mexicans immigrate to Spanish-speaking countries, right” (me :yeah, they have more countries on their borders than bolivia )
So let me get this straight: you think that people generally migrate to countries where they speak the same language over countries where there are jobs, do you? Because that’s what you seem to be proposing here.
That’s simply wrong, B.R.: people migrate to make money and they do that within the realm of their possibilities. It is far easier for an Angolan or Bolivian to come here to Brazil than it is to go to the States and, compared to the other economies of Latin America, we actually do indeed have more jobs.
I can’t for the life of me figure out what is hard for you to understand in all this.
Im going to wait extra long and take my time to make my desician about this issue in Arizona after Ive really heard from people in Arizona and all the sides there.
I’m not surprised. You seem to be pretty anti-immigrant in your outlook already – unless, of course, the immigrant in question has the ability to immigrate legally (and let’s leave out the simple fact that a very small portion of the world’s population fits into that category).
The guy sounds like a blowhard, arrogant , self absorbed turd, who thought he could just put something over on PF.
Interesting.
What, exactly, was he trying to “put over” on the PF, seeing as how he was well within his rights to request naturalization. Well within his constitutional rights, in fact, as the Brazilian Constitution allows ANYONE the right to naturalize after 15 years of proven residency, whether they were illegal, irregular, or not (good luck trying to get those rights recognized, though).
Jude fills out the naturalization documents, by the book, fully within his rights. Not only do the police deny him naturalization, they illegally threaten to revoke his residency status for irregularities which simply didn’t exist. (“Illegal” because Jude had the right to repeal revokation and the police told him that if he tried, he’d be immediately deported). The PF then tried to bully him into not seeking out a lawyer. Then, when Jude’s lawyer made an appearance, all charges were mysteriously dropped but the paperwork continued stalled.
Later, after a purge of the local PF offices following the Satyricon cocaine scandal, the new crew of police sail Jude’s papers onto Brasília with a positive evaluation. Finally, in Brasília, the papers are blocked because they are now “invalid, beyond the date limits for such paperwork” because the Federal Police themselves invented excuses to stall the paperwork.
So what, in this entire process, do you see as Jude “pulling one over” on the PF or outsmarting them? He entered a routine request for naturalization after some 16 years of residency in Brazil and was subject to threats, bribery attempts and vast incompetence, finally having to resort to high-priced legal council just to see that his most basic rights as an immigrant were respected. This is “trying to outsmart thye system” to you?
I’m beginning to doubt that you can read Portuguese beyond football scores, B.R.
And for those people who may be following this and who don’t read Portuguese, Jude – like B.R. – is a white American immigrant with a university diploma, whose never been illegal in Brazil, who’s a taxpayer, who’s been married twice to Brazilians and who is, in fact, a federal employee.
We are talking the sort of immigrant who has the financial and cultural capital to defend himself from arbitrary acts on the part of the police. If he can barely do that, immagine the situation of someone who doesn’t have said capital.
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Here’s my wish for you, B.R.:
It is my heartfelt wish that you, personally, encounter all the barriers to immigration that you feel are “necessary” for the “wrong type” of immigrant.
It’s my wish that someday you, or your children, encounter the same level of competence in the PF that you find so adequate in Jude’s case.
In particular, I’m wondering what you think is going to happen to your property when you die as a resident and your widow or children attempt to clear your paperwork through the PF in order to advance your will and testament.
Your ignorance regarding how immigration law works here and your arrogant presumption that you are a “good gringo” (as opposed to all those nasty illegals) is someday going to come around and bite you square on your a$$.
When it does, you remember what I told you, B.R.
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Your arguments are so weak, they dont even need answering . You need to grow up.
You are absolutly the worst pursuader of your causes that I have ever seen. Way to turn people off , I mean that is real brilliance of pursuasion , to just be so lame in your debate that you fall into dreck and rubbish
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It is my heartfealt wish that someday you have a kid and when you change its diapers, you will smell sh%t flowing in your nostrils
And it is my heart felt wish that you clean up its vomit and get peed on when trying to bathe it
And that this kid will rebel against your wishes and only heap holy hades in your life
Then you are going to know what real life is and it will humble you to the ground
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Oh , well , geez, there is something about this Jude guy that just smells like warmed over boo boo crust.
“Boo boo crust”? Oh, my. No need to resort to strong language. 😀
B.R., did it ever occur to you that, as someone who writes commentary under my own name, here and elsewhere, I’m hardly trying to protect my anonymity? Anonymity is not a big deal to me unless and accept as it applies to my informants. By the ABA’s ethical guidelines, I CANNOT reveal them, even if I wanted to, unless I get a signed statement from them, which I do not have in this case.
However, if it makes you happy to think that Jude is me, that’s fine. I cannot either confirm or deny that for ethical reasons but if it makes your day to believe that, go right ahead.
What I find odd, however, is the fact that you still can’t seem to back up any of your ad hominem attacks on the man with evidence from the article. I’m curious as to what you see there that’s “putting one over” on the Polícia Federal or Jude “making false condescending statements about people”.
I mean, talk about “implying lies”! Hell, you’re not even implying them: you seem to get a rush in flat out stating them.
But perhaps I’m mistaken here. Perhaps the problem is the fact that though you’ve lived here for 20 years, your Portuguese isn’t up to reading what’s essentially a pop article on immigration. Thus you PRESUME that stuff is going on in that article that just isn’t there. It’s not so much a case of you lying then, as of you extemporaneously bullsh1tting.
he is probaby frustrated because he never had a book published , for an academic like him , it must burn him to the core
Oh, way to cut a guy to the quick, B.R. I mean, you really know what gets up academic’s nuts, huh? 😀
I know how to treat punks like you
Yeah, well, I guess I just gotta be scared of internet tough guys like you.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Internet_tough_guy
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Look, B.R., seriously, I hope your family never has to go through the crap that I’ve seen Jude and countless other LEGAL immigrants go through. Immigration, in any society, is a sysiphean task. The paperwork never ends and your rights are few, if any.
It just amazes me that anyone who has gone through this sort of process can be so blasé and dismissive when it comes to illegal immigration. It amazes me that you apparently can’t see the human dimensions behind these movements.
I’d expect the “F%¨& it, they’re illegal” attitude from a dumb redneck who’s never left his home county in his life except for a four-year stint in the military. I’m absolutely flabbergasted to see an IMMIGRANT essentially say the same damned thing.
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Gee , thanks for the repreive on me and my family
But, I hate to inform you that your charactorisation of how I feel about immigrants is tainted , as you always do
If that is how you want to portray me in your fantacy world, go right ahead, and that is why you need to get in touch with reality
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Abagond, none of my posts are coming up now, what is up ?
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B.R.:
I found myself deleting too many of your posts so now they automatically go to my spam filter.
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B.R., you yourself seem to think there’s a huge moral difference between you, a “legal” immigrant who has, in your words, “jumped through the hoops” and “illegal” immigrants who haven’t.
Do you want to change that position?
Because if it’s true, I submit to you that you do not, indeed, see the human dimensions behind why most people illegally immigrate.
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I submit to you ,Thad, that your deductions of what Im saying are bafoonish . You have failed in every way to pursuade me of anything . Your arguments are weak and make me just want to study all sides of people from Arizona before I come to any conclusion.
You are a person whose opinion I totaly dismiss based on the weakness of your tactics to debate.
But, I know only too well how you operate. Ive seen you , in the face of absolute truth, blow ahead with dust , bluster , smoke and mirrors coupled with mischaractorisations and out right lies of what people have said.
You just dont have any credibility with me.
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Abagond, Thad can hide behind your rules here, to dish out lies and insults . He mischaractorises to a fault, to the point of lying about what people are saying. He gets away with a lot, that just wouldnt cut it in real life.
I say , just take the binds off my wrists and let me deal with him properly.
You have watched Thad on here over an over ridicule people, almost blatenly lying what they are saying.
If he thinks Im physiclay threatening him, that is his fantacy, I wouldnt have to. In real life, he would get some choice words that would just shut him out .
Some one like him loves to hide in the cyber blog world and take pot shots when he knows the proper responce to that will be deleted.
With out the delete , in real life he would receive the kind of treatment his hot air would deserve
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I don’t understand what people expect the government to do about millions of people already living in the country? Do they want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend these people don’t exist? How much will it cost the public purse to round these people up and deport them? I support a political party in England, Liberal Democrats, that wants to grant amnesty to a million or so illegal immigrants.
These people are living underground and exploited by the crud of society that treats them worse than animals because they daren’t declare their legal status.
This is a humanitarian issue, and I for one don’t honestly feel comfortable with this prevalent ‘us’ and ‘them’ mentality. Whether they got here legally or not isn’t the point. They’re here. What next? Do we feel better having a new second class tier to society?
It’s interesting this issue has relegated folks into right wing camps, illegal immigrants are becoming the new punching bag. The previously persecuted minorities sound glad to have the finger pointed elsewhere for a change. Interesting.
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Unless you can post guards on very square inch of your borders 24/7 to keep the buggers out I don’t see how you can control people coming into the country.
I do know that implementing a law that targets such people, and inadvertedly its own citizens into the foray because they happen to look alike is sheer nuts!!
It’s not right to presume illegal immigrants are criminals, there will be fringes of crime within just like legal citizenry, so that point doesn’t hold any water! Why commit crimes that would attract the authorities you’re trying to avoid?
Most of these folks are decent and hardworking, I don’t see it as rewarding them for flouting immigration laws, but folks this problem, like it or not, is not going away.
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Some one like him loves to hide in the cyber blog world and take pot shots when he knows the proper responce to that will be deleted.
Now that’s an interesting description of things, seeing as how it comes from a guy who’s leveled a dozen or more ad hominem insults at me in the course of the last few days – not to mention threats – from behind the presumed safety of an assumed handle.
As for convincing you of anything, B.R., perish the thought! You seem to be the kind of guy who loves to wander around in intellectual circles, as long as these confirm your prejudices. You seem to feel that your position as a “legal” immigrant gives you a superior moral high-ground from which to dismiss “illegal” immigrants as another class of human being entirely.
You feel that the fact that ypu have “jumped through hoops” gives you the right to judge what other immigrants should or shouldn’t do. This isn’t me making things up, friend: it’s the logical conclusion one can draw from your own oft-repeated words above:
But, exactly because I have had to jump to keep it legal, I dont just think its hunky dory for people to be jumping back and forth illegaly.
You are upset with me because I’m simply pointing your presumption of moral superiority out.
If that truth hurts, B.R., then I suggest you think about rather than complain that I’m lying about your position. And if you feel that your words no longer adequately describe your position, well, then go ahead and change them! But I can’t see how you can get upset at me for drawing the conclusions that I’ve drawn given what you’ve said above.
It seems pretty clear to me that you consider yourself to be “another breed” of immigrant and that this gives you the right to judge what those “border jumpers” do.
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It’s not right to presume illegal immigrants are criminals, there will be fringes of crime within just like legal citizenry, so that point doesn’t hold any water! Why commit crimes that would attract the authorities you’re trying to avoid?
Most of these folks are decent and hardworking, I don’t see it as rewarding them for flouting immigration laws, but folks this problem, like it or not, is not going away.
Precisely.
And on a blog like this, it surprises me that more people don’t realize the obvious parallel to these laws: the Dred Scott Decision.
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Although there will always be differences of perspectives. And some times even the ‘liberal’ minded people will hold views that are removed from their liberal position. You can also say the same applies to left, right wing or any political position.
However, wiith regard to:
“And on a blog like this, it surprises me that more people don’t realize the obvious parallel to these laws…”
In this instance I think on this blog its more a case of
1. Ignorance ie a lack of knowledge and understanding
2. Cannot be taken seriously
3. Racism
This is my view, since only a handful of people have been in support of the law here.
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MerriMay wrote:
I don’t understand what people expect the government to do about millions of people already living in the country? Do they want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend these people don’t exist? How much will it cost the public purse to round these people up and deport them? I support a political party in England, Liberal Democrats, that wants to grant amnesty to a million or so illegal immigrants.
These people are living underground and exploited by the crud of society that treats them worse than animals because they daren’t declare their legal status.
This is a humanitarian issue, and I for one don’t honestly feel comfortable with this prevalent ‘us’ and ‘them’ mentality. Whether they got here legally or not isn’t the point. They’re here. What next? Do we feel better having a new second class tier to society?
It’s interesting this issue has relegated folks into right wing camps, illegal immigrants are becoming the new punching bag. The previously persecuted minorities sound glad to have the finger pointed elsewhere for a change. Interesting.
———————————————————————
We could have 50 or so predator drones in the air at one time 24/7.
Kind like during the cold war with NORAD.
Any border jumper attempting to cross illegally we could light them up with rubber bullets filled with heat activating neon paint. If the bullets don’t hurt enough to give the jumper second thoughts, he will be lightened up like a christmas tree, very easy for our great border patrolmen to round them up and ship them back to tacoville.
Very clean and humanitarian
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“they told me Brazil was the only place they could go to” ,”you are prejudice “,”you are ignorant”,”You seem to be the kind of guy who loves to wander around in intellectual circles, as long as these confirm your prejudices. You seem to feel that your position as a “legal” immigrant gives you a superior moral high-ground from which to dismiss “illegal” immigrants as another class of human being entirely. ” along with your heartfelt wishes that my family suffers (you retraceted that, buddy boy, but look at the depth you stoop to)
This is just some of the no substance crap I hear from you Thad, you START (and i mean everytime) this bs , insulting and belittling, and I know how to deal with people like you.You think its some physycal threat (god you are pathetic)? but , in real life , I just would be in your face with the proper words that you deserve for that kind of cheap dirt.Physicaly beating you up , although extremly easy, would just put me in jail.
You start the bs and I can easily handle your type , Im not complainging, I just say for Abagond to let me give you the treatment you deserve.
Your arguments are weak, there is no substance to them at all .I dont care how you slice it , its like you prostitution studies going to Help disco, its extreamly limited. There are more options for people from Bolivia in Spanish speaking countries. There are more options for people near Angola who live in Angola than coming to Brazil. Only a fool would argue otherwise.
If someone choosed to jump the line illegaly, they have to deal with those consequences.As I stated before, I dont sit around hoping they will get busted. If that doesnt fit inot your pinbrained opinion about how you arrive at your false conclusions about how I think, that is your problem , buddy, I got my own problems keeping up with my immigration beaurocracy
Your arguments are horrible, and, you havent pursuaded me in any way , only pushed me to make sure I check out what people in Arizona have to say about it , not you.
I really think that is the crux of this, I want to know what is going on from people from Arizona, not a hack like you
I dont trust you. Your crediblity over and over comes up extremly short. You have a false ego problem and deserve to be ignored
You insult my intelligence, Ive been dealing with my immigration situation for 25 years . You bring in some story about dopy Jude, you keep trying to belittle my Portugues, but you are a guy that has lived in Rio for more than 20 years and doesnt know what the culture really is. You are just a white midwest rocker who cant really understand about what is really happening in the music, yet you argue into the ground . That is why you dont have any crediblility for me. You have revealed how you argue and debate and it is really tired , rude and deserves to be crushed with the correct verbal responce that is deletable on this blog
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J, Eshowoman, Euzulie, Jasmin, Islandgirl, Merrimay, Ank, are just some of the people who have been belittled and insulted by you. This is a reocurring thing, and, its not just healthy debate. Its outright rudeness and cheap.
You even admitted you dont come in here to be polite, you are paid to be polite to your students.
So there is just the real deal there. You are in here to be an a hole. A few choice words would put you right in your place
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along with your heartfelt wishes that my family suffers (you retraceted that, buddy boy, but look at the depth you stoop to)
Notice that I wished they suffer to the EXACT degree that you think it’s OK for others to suffer.
If you don’t find it OK for others to suffer, then that’s not much of a problem, is it?
I’m willing to take that curse on myself, B.R., which is the bottom line for that sort of thing: I’m willing to see my family suffer to the exact degree I’m willing to see illegal immigrants suffer: i.e., not at all.
There are more options for people from Bolivia in Spanish speaking countries. There are more options for people near Angola who live in Angola than coming to Brazil. Only a fool would argue otherwise.
Did I say there where no other options?
No.
What I said is that immigrants tell me that this is their BEST option, everything else considered.
So either those immigrants are fools or you don’t know as much about their options as you think you do. I’m betting on the second option.
I dont trust you.
Aw, gee. And here it was my goal to gain the trust of an anonymous Internet Tough Guy this week. Oh well, there’s always tomorrow. 😦
You insult my intelligence, Ive been dealing with my immigration situation for 25 years .
If you’ve been doing that for 25 years and you think that the Brazilian system is fair, just and open-handed, then I don’t have to insult your intelligence: you’re doing it to yourself.
but you are a guy that has lived in Rio for more than 20 years and doesnt know what the culture really is. You are just a white midwest rocker who cant really understand about what is really happening in the music, yet you argue into the ground . That is why you dont have any crediblility for me. You have revealed how you argue and debate and it is really tired , rude and deserves to be crushed with the correct verbal responce that is deletable on this blog
Ah, so THAT’S what all this is about! You’re still butthurt over the fact that I find your views about “African” music and “real” culture to be silly primitivist B.S.
How dare someone question your view of what’s “real Brazilian culture”, B.R.! 😀
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Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go refresh my poodle perm and play some Boston and KISS in your honor, B.R.
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Thad “Notice that I wished they suffer to the EXACT degree that you think it’s OK for others to suffer.
If you don’t find it OK for others to suffer, then that’s not much of a problem, is it?
I’m willing to take that curse on myself, B.R., which is the bottom line for that sort of thing: I’m willing to see my family suffer to the exact degree I’m willing to see illegal immigrants suffer: i.e., not at all.”
me : oh man , we have god here . My take has nothing to do with finding it ok for others to suffer.That is some of the cheap low road tactics you take to portray my feelings as something they arnt.
Its not my desire or non desire of suffering that is at play in the desicion of people to jump a countries boundries against the law. And its not what I feel about being against the law, it just is against the law and has consiquences . That is very simple to see, yet you play false by creating a phony look at what you portray me as saying….mischaractorising…a very bad habit of yours.
Another mischaractorisation : I never said I decided one way or another on the Arizona law, I said I need to hear from some Arizona people to really understand what is happening before I make a desician , you just showed you at your normal lying hack self.
Thad : “If you’ve been doing that for 25 years and you think that the Brazilian system is fair, just and open-handed”
me : There you go again , I never said it was fair, I just say it is what it is . And, dont you think these illegal immigrants are going to say that it is the best option for them because they ended up here ?That doesnt mean it is….I would never reccomend any one sneaking into Brazil to look for work , exactly because the system is so beaurocratic and unpredictable. But if they do, that is the desician they are making to do it illegaly. I dont want them to get busted, but, Im not going to just out and out side with their desician to jump illegaly.Not only that, I have charities and groups of people Im concerned with at this time and try to help. You dont tell me what Im suposed to support and like .
Thad: “Ah, so THAT’S what all this is about! You’re still butthurt over the fact that I find your views about “African” music and “real” culture to be silly primitivist B.S.
How dare someone question your view of what’s “real Brazilian culture”, B.R.! ”
me : naw, I just peeped all your cheap dirty arguing tactics by seeing what you dont know on those issues, and, how you just blunder ahead……learned a lot about you
I reccomend spandex
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me : oh man , we have god here . My take has nothing to do with finding it ok for others to suffer.That is some of the cheap low road tactics you take to portray my feelings as something they arnt.
So then state your feelings! As far as I can see, based upon what you say, you feel that you are different from an illegal immigrant, that you deserve more respect for having jumped through hoops, that illegal immigrants are basically being lazy and risky by not going through the hoops you went through and thus are at least partially deserving of the crap they get.
If that’s not your opinion – and from what you’ve said above, it seems to me that it is – then rectify it.
You say:
Another mischaractorisation : I never said I decided one way or another on the Arizona law, I said I need to hear from some Arizona people to really understand what is happening before I make a desician , you just showed you at your normal lying hack self.
I characterized this as:
B.R., who’s an immigrant himself and who’s “thinking it over”…?
How is that a lie?
I still think it sucks that you have to stop and think this one over. I think that attitude sucks tremendously. I think it’s the same thing as a guy saying “Well, you know, them slaveowners have a point regarding their property rights…”
It’s your opinion, I know. It sucks. That’s MY opinion.
I dont want them to get busted, but, Im not going to just out and out side with their desician to jump illegaly.
“I don’t want escaped slaves to be sent back to the south, but I’m not going to side with them regarding their illegally leaving their owners.”
An immoral law is UNJUST, B.R.
I have charities and groups of people Im concerned with at this time and try to help. You dont tell me what Im suposed to support and like .
Whoever told you anything along those lines? Time to put the ‘tussin away, B.R.
I reccomend spandex
And here I thought you’d’ve gone Bahian and recommended dyed blonde hair, escovas progressivas and cheap, shiny shirts open to the navel.
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…I mean, seeing as how you’re all about “roots, authentic northeastern popular culture”, as portrayed by Calypso and such… 😀
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“thinking it over”, ok , noted you said that….you still are a hack
Thad “As far as I can see, based upon what you say, you feel that you are different from an illegal immigrant, that you deserve more respect for having jumped through hoops, that illegal immigrants are basically being lazy and risky by not going through the hoops you went through and thus are at least partially deserving of the crap they get”
You dont get it, its not respect Im looking for, its just having more things , to the extent I calculated as best as I could for my wife and my family, to not get tossed out of the country, because they could find something to toss me out on if ceretain things happened.Hey, its not about comparisons, its about just trying to have my situation cool for me and my family.The fact these people did it illegaly automaticly makes their situration differant than mine. Its you who are trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
And I didnt have a lawyer, paying money for one, with advantages over any other person who cant pay for a lawyer, and I ran around on the bus a lot , I dont have a car
Thad , totaly ,and ,hackingly portraying what he thinks I am saying :”“Well, you know, them slaveowners have a point regarding their property rights…”
(his comment)It’s your opinion, I know. It sucks. That’s MY opinion
(more just mind boggling bilge of Thad trying to portray what Im saying :“I don’t want escaped slaves to be sent back to the south, but I’m not going to side with them regarding their illegally leaving their owners.”
me: This is absolutly ridiculas.I think you are the one who is drinking the tussen. This so apples to oranges, gees , you call youself an educator with this logic? Really, that is just pathetic
Look, why dont you go ahead and spearhead the iimigrants rights in Brazil movement. I wont opose you, Ill read your articles (gees that brazil dot com is kooky though, a quick look only shows there are few brazilians commenting) and hope you can make a differance. Go ahead, you got it….just back off me trying to tell me how you think Im suposed to think or act, you dont have the goods to be able to do that
gees I dont own a Calypso record, but, I like watching more than any Brazilian rock…..I like baille funk and pagode (without really buying their records, but,im not that big a fan), and Barra has a great wave…I mean what beach do you love so much ?
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Barra has a great wave…I mean what beach do you love so much ?
Fess up, B.R.: you’re the guy who told us, on our blog, that we could catch bleeding-edge Brazilian fusion at the Hard Rock Café in Barra. 😀
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????? what do you mean ? It was a monster show …too bad you missed it….
Culture is where you book it…..(by the way, telling people we hit at Hard Rock Cafe in Rio gets great responce)
We will try to get booked in Lapa next time ….especialy for you….(we did play there a few years ago)
What is your beach, Flamengo ?
Any one who likes waves love Barra…I do love to body surf…
Ill lood forward to hearing about your progress as the guy who spearheads new legislation for illigal immigrants in Brazil…..
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In any case, thanks for providing a joke which is a source of endless amusement to my carioca music crowd pals. How can you not get booked downtown, is what I wonder? Venues go begging down there.
Ill lood forward to hearing about your progress as the guy who spearheads new legislation for illigal immigrants in Brazil…..
Given that any enterprise of this nature is inevitably SOCIAL and given that most legal immigrants in Brazil, like yourself, really don’t care what happens until they get their precious nuts in the wringer, don’t hold your breath.
But at least I’ve spoken a few times with the president of the National Immigration Council, which is start. At the very least, he gets reminded regularly that he has a constituency who watch what he does very carefully.
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The only beach I hang out on with any regularity is Posto 9. And only then because 1) Milton makes great meat sandwiches and 2) Quasenove has the best beach batidas in town.
I am not much of a beach bum.
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I wonder if Edson is still in business in front of the Othon ?
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Im sure your carioca music crowd buddys wouldnt support us anyway
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Given that Edson works on the most notorious daytime prostitution venue in Rio de Janeiro, catering principally to sexual tourists, my main question would be how do you know about him?
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