“You are the one keeping racism alive” means that talking about race helps to keep racism alive. That it would die a natural death if people just stopped talking about it. That I should stop talking about race and go back to writing about half-naked women or the Middle East or whatever it was I was writing about before race became a big subject on my blog. That I am causing more harm than good.
It is something white commenters often say on this blog. Yes, white. I cannot remember a black commenter or any person of colour ever saying that, not even the right-wing ones. That alone should make you wonder about where this thought is coming from.
And it goes beyond this blog:
- Rush Limbaugh seems to think racism is kept alive by the “race industry”, by people like Al Sharpton.
- Three-fourths of white parents do not talk to their children about race.
Some white beliefs that support this:
- Race is unimportant: race does not affect whites directly in a bad way. Unlike people of colour, they do not have to think about race unless they want to.
- Racism is dead: because it does not affect them, many whites think it has died away. It is just something in the history books: slavery, Jim Crow and all that.
- Noticing race is racist: many whites do not see the difference between being race conscious (knowing how race affects your life) and racism (looking down on people because of their race).
- If we do not talk about racism it will go away: an odd idea that no one thinks to apply to things like sexism, cancer, crime, dishonest government or any of the other ills of human life. What makes racism so different?
Blacks are one-eighth of America. They could not keep racism alive all by themselves even if they wanted to. They do not control the courts, the police, the newspapers, the schools and all the rest. But whites do.
Whites in America have five times more votes and 50 times more wealth. Like it or not, racism rises or falls with them. Racism goes on because they continue to be racist. It is that simple. There is no huge mystery about it. It does not fall out of the sky or come up through the cracks in the sidewalk. It comes from whites acting in racist ways – not from black people talking about whites acting in racist ways.
Some whites might say “you are keeping racism alive” because they hold to one or more the beliefs listed above, but the heart of the matter is that talking about race makes white people uncomfortable. Because deep down, whether they want to admit it or not, they know that they have an unfair position in society because of the colour of their skin. Instead of living right they would rather live a lie – like they have been doing to different degrees ever since slave days.
– Abagond, 2010.
See also:
520
Thank you Abagond for writing this. I was about to go off on some of the white commentators on this website. Some of them refuse to acknowledge, let along emphatized with any Black or person of Color viewpoints on this painful matter.
Once again, thank you so much.
La Reyna
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Great post Abagond…
In my opinion, intellectual conversation and dialogue helps to create a path of enlightenment regarding “racism & prejudice” for others to join in and follow: Hopefully, that path will lead to a greater understanding which serves to knock down the barriers of ignorance that perpetuate so many ‘false beliefs’ that people of all colors and ethnicities use to “cling” to their notions of ‘race & racism’.
Having said that, I will also say that “talking about racism can in fact serve to keep it alive.” There are a lot of people, both Black & White who perpetuate racism and hatred by the very nature of how they choose to talk about it. Think “Klan rally speech” vs. “Dr. Martin Luther King’s, “I have a dream.” Granted, those are polar opposite comparisons, but even on a more subtle note, I think it may be more difficult to determine just exactly when a conversation about race & racism can be constructive -or- destructive. You know? (Enlightenment or self perpetuated ignorance…?)
I’m definitely interested to see what others have to say regarding this.
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La Reyna – racism can be painful for everyone, including White people. I don’t want to derail this thread, but if you would like for me to share, let Abagond know and I’ll have him provide you my direct email address and I’ll what I mean.
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I don’t get why people use this argument it makes no sense, how can not talking about a problem makes it go away. Shutting your eyes and covering your ears then saying “lalalala” does not make a problem go a away. LOL
Also noticing race or seeing somebody and seeing that they are black is not bad that is why I find the whole colourblind thing laughable. I watching The Tyra Show and the topic was about race and a woman was said proudly “I don’t see race I’m colourblind” and Tyra shot her down she said I do see race when you look at me you can see that I am Black woman noticing race is not a bad thing. I wish I had a video of that episode.
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Thank you for this post, Abagond, very clarifying, as always, about another yet common white tendency.
ColorOfLuv, I think it’s pretty obvious that Abagond is talking about a certain kind of talk about race and racism that gets blamed by many whites this way — that would be anti-racist talk. A speech at a Klan rally would be the opposite kind of talk about race. I don’t find it especially “difficult to determine just exactly when a conversation about race & racism can be constructive -or- destructive.”
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To Macon D –
I understand. I was trying to illustrate two extremes; however, Abagond says, Fri 12 Mar 2010 by abagond
“You are the one keeping racism alive” means that talking about race helps to keep racism alive.
so Macon D – talking about race, whether it is racist or ‘anti-racist’ is just a matter of semantics, isn’t it? My point is that generalization that many people use when discussing race are often founded in racism (ignorance itself) such as over-use of “generalizations”. Blacks are….. Whites are….. Latinos are…… These generalizations can harm or help depending on the focus of the conversation.
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ColorOfLuv, what you seem to be saying seems so obvious that I don’t see why you think it’s worth saying.
Except this part:
talking about race, whether it is racist or ‘anti-racist’ is just a matter of semantics, isn’t it?
No, it’s not just a matter of semantics. Basically, “racist” talk is bad talk; “anti-racist” talk is good talk.
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What I was trying to illustrate is this, and I have been witness to many instances of it: In conversations with Blacks only, Whites only and various mult-cultural combinations.
I have participated in many discussion on Race at a University level, and I have been witness to tempers flaring so much that an intended CONSTRUCTIVE conversation quickly becomes DESTRUCTIVE by various people – independent of their skin color.
Now do you understand?
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Sort of (I don’t see why flaring tempers are suddenly a relevant issue), but I don’t think we two white guys should derail discussion of Abagond’s post.
If it’s “generalizations” you’re against, I don’t have a problem with accurate ones about white people. I call them “common white tendencies,” and Abagond has identified yet another one in this post. He’s obviously not saying that ALL white people have or enact that tendency.
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Right…. I think we’re in agreement. I probably should not have used an overtly “racist” example such as the klan. However, I’m not talking about ‘flaring tempers’, I’m talking about designated talking points that resulted in “racist comments” that served no positive purpose whatsoever. The racist comments were coming from all groups.
I was dumbfounded. I sat back and watched the Chaos ensue wondering where the “logic and reasoning” were with everyone. I was actually saying to myself, “What is the purpose of this? What is the desired end result of this sort of bantering? Faculty members had to intervene before it got violent.
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also, I’m okay with “generalizations” regarding cultural stereotypes, but I do think caution should be heeded. If I start speaking in generalizations regarding the Black community, I could become a “racist” rather quickly; however, generalizations made about the White community is fair game -but there is a double standard. That in and of itself can be problematic when discussing “racism”.
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ColorOfLuv,
That’s actually not a double standard, and this is precisely why tempers flare.
White people–generally–can’t make generalizations about black people–negative or positive–because most of their notions are actually preconceived–study after study after federal study has confirmed this. Most white people do not have friends, relatives, and significant others of color, and whites are the most residentially self-segregated group in the country (see Benjamin Rich’s work “The Search for Whitopia”). In short, their insight is grossly limited and that’s why they find their opinions rejected so quickly and frequently by people of color.
People of color, on the other hand, generally start having negative personal experiences with whites the moment they enter elementary school. It basically tends to go downhill from there.
Now, so long whites refuse to accept this ugly bit of reality first (out of many other ugly bits of reality), progress cannot be made. Conversations start to go round and round in frustrating circles. Tempers flare, all-out arguments ensue, white people leave none the wiser, while people of color are more certain than ever there’s no hope for white people.
People of color have accepted our ugly truths, and let me tell you: there’s nothing “glamorous” about discrimination. People with ancestors who were enslaved, colonized, or nearly exterminated don’t feel “special”. White America has a morbid fascination with victims, as though it’s a coveted role in a film (type “white guilt fantasy films” into Google), when any POC can assure you, there’s nothing “fascinating.”
When I was 16, I watched “Amistad” only once and didn’t sleep for a week. I can barely stomach the “Slave Narratives.” When my father talks about being born and raised under colonial rule (which white people I talk to always tend to think was “centuries” ago), I notice that even now that he’s in his sixties, he has not and never will recover from that experience. Though he’s tried to raise tolerant, open-minded daughters, there’s a deep bitterness and loathing in him I know he’ll take to his grave, as will his entire generation.
And as will the next, and the next after that, and the next after that as well, until whites in America are finally a minority and no longer have any choice but to face their ugly truths.
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Ankhesen – I do find it to be a double standard from a “personal perspective.” Suffice it to say I have suffered racism at the hands of both Blacks and Whites. It does not matter who it comes from, it still offends me. I’m sorry, there is a double standard. Its not just about Black or White. Many of the double standards exist within the black community as well.
You Said:
“People of color, on the other hand, generally start having negative personal experiences with whites the moment they enter elementary school. It basically tends to go downhill from there.”
I understand this, but keep in mind that kids in general start having negative personal experiences at this age that go beyond race. Race is simply another tool that kids can use in their arsenal of weapons. This can go BOTH ways. (You may think I could not understand this, but trust me, I was “physcially different” growing up and subjected to ridicule for being so….)
Let me ask you this, “Is it ok for Black people to pick on White people just because they’re White? To judge them and draw conclusions based solely on their appearance or phenotype? (Is this not a double standard?)
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Ankhesen:
Wow, another beautiful comment!! Thank you!
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It seems that many non-Americans think of Americans as being race-obsessed. I don’t think Americans are more so than most other nationalities. We’re just much more willing to publicly discuss these issues than others, which is definitely a good thing.
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Ankhesen:
I am so glad you keep a blog. I was wondering why I did not know about it before, but now I see it is only a few months old.
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But Abagond,
Doesn’t every group do the same thing that you are accusing Whites of doing?
Don’t Black males to a large degree also not empathize with issues that impact Black women, i.e., see the Toure post comments?
Don’t White men not empathize with issues that impact women (of whatever race) and people of color?
Isn’t it natural that we only see what impacts our own small group as being important? Or that we only empathize with what impacts our own group?
Blacks speaking out against racism can no more keep racism alive than women speaking out against rape can keep rape alive. This is a ridiculous argument which attempts to silence people from speaking out against injusticies.
I don’t think Whites are any more guilty of using this argument than others. Some of your commenters have claimed that Black women are bashing Black men just because Black women speak about issues that are not flattering to Black men.
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“White people–generally–can’t make generalizations about black people…”
I see you have no sense of irony. But you do exist in the black alternate reality.
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Wow, this conversation is heading off the rails right quick — sorry if I contributed to that (reminds me of why I started moderating comments on my blog).
ColorOfLuv and Patricia Kayden, why are you so fixated on making sure that people here know that “other people do that too!” or that “oppression comes in other forms too, ya know!” Honestly, in a discussion racism, which occurs within an ongoing, de facto white supremacist context, who cares? Go have those conversations in, you know, other conversations.
You should also realize, by the way, that you’re both exhibiting strong symptoms of draptoresponsia. You really oughta get that checked out.
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Color of Luv said:
“If I start speaking in generalizations regarding the Black community, I could become a “racist” rather quickly; however, generalizations made about the White community is fair game -but there is a double standard. That in and of itself can be problematic when discussing ‘racism’.”
I agree there is a double standard but it is the other way round.
In an abusive relationship, the faults of the abused are talked about and played up at great length – by the abuser. Why? To excuse the abuse. Meanwhile the words of the abused are dismissed, twisted, derailed and generally not taken seriously. When the abused brings up the faults of the abusers, the abusers sometimes become angry and upset – to an unreasonable degree. Why? To cow the abused into silence. If the abusers admit to any faults at all it is only to excuse them or blame them on the abused.
Put “whites” in place of abusers and “blacks” in place of the abused and that is what you often have in America when it comes to talking about race.
And so we are informed at great length about the “pathologies” of blacks while the even greater pathologies of whites are given a pass or are barely even talked about.
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Macon D:
Thank you.
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Wow…I’m just speechless after reading the original post. I’ve been waiting to hear someone address this issue as you have. Thanks…and I’ll be back with more. (Heading to the lab!)
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Macon D,
Ouch. Like LOL and all, but…ouch!
It’s taking everything to keep from laughing aloud at work.
Did not see that one coming.
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Abagond,
Thanks for posting this, by the way. So to-the-point. I will totally have to link this.
Yup…my blog’s a newbie. Glad you like it so far.
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Sigh
Unfortunately this argument is rampant amongst our white brethren.
I dont like to discuss race with some white people because they often get defensive. They feel as though empathizing and understanding POC (particularly black people’s) view on racism in America is akin to accepting responsibility for what happened in the past.
When I discuss race my main object if to have mutual understanding. I am not looking to shame, blame, or guilt anybody for sins of past ancestors, I simply want someone to see my point of view as valid. I also want to change my perspective and see things through a white(or Asian, Hispanic, ect) perspective.
I feel as though most white people hear race discussion and do everything in their power to deflect blame from racism and make POC feel as though our experiences are rare and can be attribute other things besides race.
Race relations in America will never improve as long as most white people keep deflecting and avoiding the issue.
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Color of Luv,
abagond has NEVER condoned “picking on White people just because they’re White to judge them and draw conclusions based solely on their appearance or phenotype?” It’s disingenous of you to imply that this discussion is about that.
What abagond has done is remind us that, although ANTI-Black descrimination does not affect whites DIRECTLY in a BAD way or they DON’T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT RACE UNLESS THEY WANT TO, WP have UNFAIR/UNEARNED PRIVILEGES in society because of the color of their skin, while Blacks have to face UNFAIR/UNEARNED DISADVANTAGES because of the color of their skin.
Blacks have suffered/continue to suffer MAJOR NEGATIVE consequences to varying degrees on several levels from the INSTITUTIONAL ANTI-BLACK RACISM that is a FUNDAMENTAL part of how American society works (even when BP are able to achieve a certain measure of success).
ANY FAIRMINDED person of ANY RACE should be able to see that granting certain people privileges SOLELY on the basis of their skin color while WITHHOLING privileges from others on the basis of their skin color is WRONG.
Instead of getting defensive, those who see how WRONG INSTITUTIONAL ANTI-BLACK RACISM (and ALL RACISM) is (and the GREAT harm it has caused/continues to cause BP) should be willing to do whatever it takes (including discussing ANTI-BLACK RACISM) to END it .
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Abagond, you said:
Put “whites” in place of abusers and “blacks” in place of the abused and that is what you often have in America when it comes to talking about race.
Response: Absolutely Abagond. I never said this isn’t the case. I understand the current status of society.
Abagond, you said: “I agree there is a double standard but it is the other way round.”
Response: Your statement is contradictory. The “standard” is that historically “Whites are the abusers and Black are the abused. Therfore, the double standard of, “Blacks can be abusers and Whites can be the abused holds true. This is a ‘double standard’.
I am not talking about Racism or prejudicial thinking. I’m simply speaking from my PERSONAL experiences of suffering PREJUDICE from both Whites and Blacks!!! (Help – are there any Bi-Racial participants who can attest to this???)
Macon D, you said:
ColorOfLuv and Patricia Kayden, why are you so fixated on making sure that people here know that “other people do that too!” or that “oppression comes in other forms too, ya know!” Honestly, in a discussion racism, which occurs within an ongoing, de facto white supremacist context, who cares? Go have those conversations in, you know, other conversations.
I’m not fixated. It simply seems as though you are trying to deny me of my personal experience on the receiving end of racism! I do agree that it seems like “our conversation” got this topic slightly derailed. However, if one wants to talk about Racism, lets approach it from different perspectives. We are afterall, individuals with unique perspectives as “Racism” has affected ALL of us to one degree or another, right?
I understand why America is racist and why society is racist. We don’t need to rehash “definitions” of why the society is the way it is. I’m hear to tell you, I’ve experience Racism from both Whites & Blacks! sheesh….. (What, I’m not Black enough to understand???) c’mon…..
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agreed.
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Laromana,
You said: “abagond has NEVER condoned “picking on White people just because they’re White to judge them and draw conclusions based solely on their appearance or phenotype?” It’s disingenous of you to imply that this discussion is about that. ”
Response:
You should be familiar enough with my posts and comments to know that I would not imply that.
Abagond, if you think that is what I was implying, I wasn’t. As stated previously, I think me and Macon D derailed the topice. (Admittedly, me more than Macon)
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When my father talks about being born and raised under colonial rule (which white people I talk to always tend to think was “centuries” ago)…
I have encountered the reaction “lets not talk about that” when I have only been describing my childhood experience, growing up under Jim Crow, some even implying that I’m lying. Even though I am 65, some whites act shocked that I graduated from a legally segregated high school? That “centuries” ago thinking, not a generation ago; which denies them their right to say, “”not me or my ancestors”.
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Peanut –
You said: “agreed” to Laroman.
I also agree!!! (except for the part where Laromana thinks I said “Abagond condones picking on White people. –explained above.) LOL -laughing at that one!
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Hathor –
That is unfortunate. I’m glad you’re participating in Abagond’s blog.
People who say, “Lets not talk about that” should be ashamed of themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep posting!
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I am glad Hathor is taking part too since most commenters here, like me, seem to be too young to remember Jim Crow.
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Color of Luv said,
Let me ask you this, “Is it ok for Black people to pick on White people just because they’re White? To judge them and draw conclusions based solely on their appearance or phenotype? (Is this not a double standard?)
laromana says,
What did you mean by YOUR question above?
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I agree I have a majority privilege. I’m not sure it is because I’m white though, if I were to go to Japan or China I would have no privilege. I actually know a white actor in Japan and he always gets typecasted as the burglar or bad guy and never the main character.
My question is, I agree I have privilege but does that automatically make me racist, and if it does there is no way I can fix it so what should I do?
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To Laromana –
Me and Macon D were going back and forth earlier, derailing the original topic posted by Abagond (for which I have apologized. That wasn’t my intention.) and we were talking about double standards. The question was directed to him…
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Ankhesen,
“Is it ok for Black people to pick on White people just because they’re White? To judge them and draw conclusions based solely on their appearance or phenotype?”
No, and that’s not even what we’re talking about. You’re deliberately moving away from the core subject and that does not bode well.
When POC have negative experiences with whites, whites are usually firing the first shot. And since you’re not dealing with our parents or our parents’ parents, younger POC tend to be a lot more defiant. Many children of color are being raised right now by young parents who’ve taught them to not tolerate name-calling or stereotyping of any kind.
And I will be the first to admit, children of color–adolescents in particular–will engage in preemptive strikes just to make it clear they will not be fucked with. ‘Tis ultimately detrimental and counterproductive, granted, but guess what…not the majority, don’t have a full range of options, gotta do whatcha gotta do to be left alone.
In his article “America’s New Racial Reality” (which I personally found hilarious), James Carroll writes that, “Blacks’ old contract with America is over.” Apparently, much of White America didn’t get the memo.
For example, in my post “When Dehumanized, Raise Hell” I talk about some of the really infuriating experiences black women have in America. One is constantly having white guys assume you are a whore. My white male friends have confirmed that it’s “the forbidden fruit” factor, and that these guys grew up–as they themselves did–hearing a lot of “stories” about black women from their fathers, uncles, and grandfathers.
So when I display anger of any kind at being propositioned, the icky creepy white guy in question becomes indignant and annoyed that I would dare reject him. He demands to know “what my problem is” and why I have to “be like that”. It never seems to occur that he’s just done something horribly wrong; it can’t be him, ergo I must be defective or something.
I’ve recently noticed that even if I’m out with another man, that doesn’t stop them. After all, if I’m that guy’s whore, I can be theirs too right? What’s the harm in asking?
Or the hair thing. You would think by now, after all the talking and blogging that’s been going, white people would know by now you don’t walk up and stick your fingers in a black woman’s hair. Nor do you ask to. If you think it’s pretty, say, “It’s pretty” and then get on with your life.
And yet the hair-touching still goes on and a black woman trying to defend her own body gets branded the selfish “uppity” bitch.
See a pattern here?
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To O’ Dochartaigh –
For most purposes of this discussion, I believe we’re dealing with “Racism in America.”
I agree with you though, the Japanese are very “ethnocentric”.
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Although I agree that the argument is false, I think it touches on a much deeper concept. For each of us, what we give focus and attention to DOES come into our lives.
The concept is bigger than racism, and is actually the Law of Attraction. That which you give focus too, intellectually and emotionally, finds it’s way into your life, including the things you DON’T want.
Oprah had a series of shows about something called “the Secret”, which was about this Law.
An example of this would be someone who is always getting sick. Their fear of being sick or wanting to be sick in order to garner attention, adds to the likelihood that they will get sick. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. It may not even be a concious thought but a deep-rooted belief system. And every time that your own prophecy comes true (i.e. an experience of sickness), that belief system gets stronger.
Blacks who constantly look for racism or assume that most people ARE racist will indeed experience more racism than those who do not. Giving thought to something before it happens is “inviting” it. It doesn’t matter if the thoughts are derived from a fear of experiencing racism (something they don’t want) or a desire to experience it in order to feel offended (something they DO want). The end result is the same.
Our thoughts and feelings are like a radio frequency, and we can only receive what we subconciously believe we deserve. This is a difficult idea for most people because it forces each individual to take responsiblity for their own circumstances in life. But take a minute and think about it. When I finally got honest with myself a few years back, I realized I was giving too much attention to my fears and things I didn’t want to experience in my life.
I realize that this way of thinking will be tossed out as “naivete” by some of you, but the happiest people I’ve ever known were the ones who just didn’t give attention to negative things. It wasn’t as though they didn’t know bad things existed, it’s just that they spent far more time thinking about experiences and things they DID want, rather than something they didn’t.
After reading the majority of this blog, I don’t believe all of you would be happy if racism completely disappeared tomorrow. Some of us enjoy the feeling of being offended, especially if it’s justified. Creating that experience over and over is a desired thing, subconciously maybe, but it is evidenced by the fact that you continue to manifest it in your life.
Peace and blessings.
Shoutout to Thad and Soul for some legitimate and entertaining comments =)
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Ó Dochartaigh said:
“My question is, I agree I have privilege but does that automatically make me racist, and if it does there is no way I can fix it so what should I do?”
In America having white privilege does not make you racist in and of itself, but because it gives you a material self-interest in keeping things the way they are, it tends to have the effect of buying your silence, of making you not want to think about racism honestly.
Stuff that anyone in America of any race can do to help end racism:
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Wow, I am glad Frank M did not say that on the Toure thread.
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Abagond said, “Wow, I am glad Frank M did not say that on the Toure thread”.
– LMAO !!!
Also, sorry about derailing your thread earlier. Didn’t mean to.
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the last part of your post is kinda like with how many Christians will condemn abortion and homosexuality but are mute on sins that they actually commit.
Whites ignore what doesn’t affect them (negatively). Its easier for them not to talk about something they are guilty of because then they wouldn’t have actually do the work it takes to fix the problem.
White people want us to just be content with racism and to like it.
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hathor, you wrote:
“Even though I am 65, some whites act shocked that I graduated from a legally segregated high school?”
Shocked? Shocked about what, exactly?
I’ve met people in the US — young blacks and hispanics — who do not know that WWII was fought. I can understand some ignorance about the Korean War, but meeting people who literally knew nothing about WWII was an eye-opener.
You wrote:
“That “centuries” ago thinking, not a generation ago; which denies them their right to say, “”not me or my ancestors”.”
Your are mistaken. Some young, uninformed people might be surprised to know what was changed by Civil Rights legislation and that it was enacted in the mid–1960s. But a sudden awakening of a few people will fail to instill in them a long-term sense of guilt. And it shouldn’t.
Frankly, those who only recently learned about the Civil Rights era should realize that changes occurred due to the efforts of a generation of whites who were empowered to make those changes.
Thus, you have it backwards.
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I myself though don’t feel comfortable talking to whites about racism…the way whites have behaved on here makes me fear the ignorance the whites will have in person…they just don’t want to understand the minority experience.
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Ó Dochartaigh,
1) No one is saying you have privilege wherever you go; in fact, I personally try to keep my comments strictly about America.
2) Privilege does make you racist, honey, and that’s the hard pill to swallow. If you think “racist” is strictly hurling slurs, wearing hoods, burning crosses, or getting swastika tattoos, then you’re horribly mistaken. You are likely to think racist thoughts and utter racist statements and yet have absolutely no clue they’re racist and offensive.
3) The first thing you can do is simply accept your internalized racism and then work to root it out. Insistently protesting your innocence is a waste of time, to be honest. A more productive use of your time, however, would be to read up on internalized racism, racial microaggressions, read some Noel Ignatiev–and watching some Tim Wise on YouTube always helps, by the way–and familiarize yourself with statistics which threaten white privilege, and then do your best to expose them.
4) Do not preach to the choir. Once you start educating yourself, it’ll be a strong temptation. Do not rant to POC about racism; rant to whites about it. Make them uncomfortable. Educate them—we already know this stuff. We live it every day.
5) A great psychological tip is stop identifying and praising people like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. You’ve got people like John Brown and Elijah P. Lovejoy and John Greenleaf Whittier and William Lloyd Garrison. Some of them died, were jailed, or nearly lynched for their beliefs. Talk about defying one’s privilege….
6) Boycott films which misrepresent POC. Learn how they misrepresent POC, and then share that info with fellow whites.
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Alwaysright 101 –
you shouldn’t be afraid to talk about it with any of your “White” friends – or anyone else. Dialogue is the best way to get past America’s racism.
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Ankehesen –
You said, “No, and that’s not even what we’re talking about. You’re deliberately moving away from the core subject and that does not bode well.”
Response: I was NOT ‘deliberately’ moving away from the core subject. It was an unintentional derailing that I admitted already should have been posted elsewhere.
You presume to know a lot “about me” – yet you know nothing. Are you judging me because I’m White? What if I told you I was Black? Would this change anything? (Passe Blanc?)
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It’s remarkable that a post about keeping the flame of racism burning includes a picture of Al Sharpton, the perpetrator of the Tawana Brawley Hoax.
Sharpton has probably gotten more frequent flier miles for lying about race and racism than Louis Farrakhan.
Moreover, Sharpton is responsible for a mass murder. For those who have maintained ignorance of one of his worst moments, I’ll refresh you.
Freddy’s Fashion Mart on 125th St in Harlem. Sharpton was leading a protest to drive Freddy’s from its rented site. Sharpton, using his bull horn, was urging a crowd to “Drive the Jew out of Harlem.”
One of the members of the crowd — a black male — came prepared. When he reached his boiling point, he ran into Freddy’s with a can of gasoline and a gun. He splashed the gasoline around the store, lit it, and began shooting the employees.
He killed six or seven employees, all of whom were black or hispanic. A murder spree is what Al Sharpton inspires. However, that episode seems to have disappeared from the list of Al’s lifetime achievements.
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And I will be the first to admit, children of color–adolescents in particular–will engage in preemptive strikes just to make it clear they will not be fucked with. ‘Tis ultimately detrimental and counterproductive, granted, but guess what…not the majority, don’t have a full range of options, gotta do whatcha gotta do to be left alone.
You have just described one of the main reasons why Whites engage in White flight.
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Ankhesen
Good information on the first link, I guess it makes sense there are more whites committing gang murder, when there are more whites to join gangs. The thing that I noticed though was more black people commit murder overall than whites, and more white people die from murder than blacks, since the black population is so much smaller than white, that means more black people kill white people than vis versa.
From 1976 to 2005 —
* 86% of white victims were killed by whites
* 94% of black victims were killed by blacks
This statistic shows that 14% of whites are killed by minorities but 6% of blacks are being killed by none blacks. That is more than double for whites.
One thing that is disproportionate is the amount of black men getting incarcerated for drug crime, when more whites just from population alone take more drugs.
http://blog.norml.org/2010/03/10/the-new-jim-crow-how-the-war-on-drugs-gave-birth-to-a-permanent-american-undercaste/
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“2) Privilege does make you racist, honey, and that’s the hard pill to swallow.”
I gather the preceding means Obama and his wife are racists. Interesting.
and:
“3) The first thing you can do is simply accept your internalized racism and then work to root it out. Insistently protesting your innocence is a waste of time, to be honest. ”
Ahhh. The Witch Trials have begun
and:
“5) A great psychological tip is stop identifying and praising people like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.”
You’ve already lost.
and:
“You’ve got people like John Brown and Elijah P. Lovejoy and John Greenleaf Whittier and William Lloyd Garrison. Some of them died, were jailed, or nearly lynched for their beliefs.”
Believe what you want, but their role in American history and their impact on the future of the country is far less than the effects of Washington, Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers.
and
“6) Boycott films which misrepresent POC. Learn how they misrepresent POC, and then share that info with fellow whites.”
How would viewers know POC have been misrepresented?
Can you give an example of a movie misrepresenting whites?
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ColorOfLuv,
1) It’s “Ankhesen”.
2) You’re being emo.
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Uncle Milton,
You have just described one of the main reasons why Whites engage in White flight.
You have just described why, where racial progress is concerned, whites are seen as cowardly.
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You have just described why, where racial progress is concerned, whites are seen as cowardly.
That’s a sentence that could appear on a website like Stormfront, although they certainly wouldn’t talk about racial progress.
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Blacks are one-eighth of America. They could not keep racism alive all by themselves even if they wanted to.
EXACTLY.
I think to even say WE the ones against whom racism is being perpetrated – are keeping it alive is racist in and of itself. Racism is like a cancer, it’s not going anywhere without some aggressive chemo, just ignoring it is not an option.
In fact, we need to talk about it and white people need to understand so eventually we don’t have to talk about it. When your mind is finally opened to distrubing truths it hurts, it’s uncomfortable. I’m sorry that white folk feel uncomfortable but what they’re feeling is a fraction of what PoC feel 98.9 % of the time. See, I don’t have the luxury of not thinking or talking about race.
So let’s talk about it white people. When you can truly listen and understand where we are coming from and your part and how we can work together to tackle this problem – you won’t have to hear from Al Sharpton anymore. If you would stop dodging, blaming the victim, hijacking the conversation, talking over us and not listening we could be closer to that day.
But you need to start by not blaming US for a dynamic YOU set in motion. And I don’t want to hear about how we’re racist too – because that’s derailing and not the issue.
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I had no idea people think racism will go away if we don’t talk about it. It makes no sense. That’s why I think it might be something else (just a guess, though): many whites believe racism IS a problem of the past. They believe it’s gone. So they think talking about it might bring it back.
@ColorOfLuv
I hope I don’t sound disrespectful or way too curious, but I want to ask: is your gravatar a picture of you? If it is, I must say: you look white to me. I mean, I don’t think I’d ever think twice about your race. Which makes me wonder how dark someone actually has to be to be considered non-white.
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To alwaysright101:
I myself though don’t feel comfortable talking to whites about racism…the way whites have behaved on here makes me fear the ignorance the whites will have in person…they just don’t want to understand the minority experience.
As Abagond pointed out a fairly high percentage of his hits on his blog come from websites like Stormfront.. which is certainly not a home for warm and fuzzy White people. Basically I think whatever negative comments you are seeing here from Whites are rather skewed. For the most I think Whites aren’t really thinking about racism much.
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Mira – I have passed for Black. In the “Black Hair” column, Abagond posted a picture of me when I used to “pass for black”. (check it out)
You’ve probably missed a lot of my posts. I been on the White side of the fence and the Black side, and everywhere in between. (I’m like a lesser degree version of Sandra Laing) Nowadays, people mostly see me as White.
And yes, I have suffered racism at the hands of Whites! (and Blacks… ) Short of derailing this thread again, I’ll leave it at that.
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To pick up on what Uncle Milton said, most of the whites who comment on my blog are not ordinary whites. Most are race conscious for one reason or another, while most White Americans are not race conscious – mainly for all the reasons given in the post. They have engineered their lives so that they do not have to deal with blacks much at all.
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“So when I display anger of any kind at being propositioned, the icky creepy white guy in question becomes indignant and annoyed that I would dare reject him.”
How about describing one of these situations? Include the time of day/night, nature of the location and your attire.
You wrote:
“He demands to know “what my problem is” and why I have to “be like that”. It never seems to occur that he’s just done something horribly wrong; it can’t be him, ergo I must be defective or something.”
The attire of many young women would suit hookers working popular bar areas. Obviously hookers and non-hookders sometimes choose the same fashions.
I have been propositioned by enough black women to know that those who are hookers look the part. But I’ve also met some who are dressed in a more sophisticated way who are available for hire.
The Lenox Lounge up in Harlem is one place to go if you want to find “working women.”
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Frank M,
I think that concept is BS whether it deals with racism or not.
Let me just say, that assumption can get you killed.
no_slappz,
Now you are another person who presumes to know my experience. BTW, those people were not younger. They were people who stayed insulated in their world and didn’t pay attention to the news. They barely knew what Black people were marching for. Nothing like having to inform white folk of the misconception and misinformation they have about the civil rights movement. For example, many thought that schools that were segregated under Jim Crow, became desegregated at once. You also note that I say “some”.
Ó Dochartaigh,
Black on white murder is rarer than you think. It doesn’t seem that way, because of the media. Even the most psychopathic Black person probably thinks twice before committing first degree murder of a white person.
I wonder how you came to this conclusion.
The thing that I noticed though was more black people commit murder overall than whites, and more white people die from murder than blacks, since the black population is so much smaller than white, that means more black people kill white people than vis versa.
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Ankhesen –
lol — sorry about the typo! Didn’t know it was that impo to you.
As for me being emo, Well, for some who is not bi-racial but who has endured much of what many bi-racial people go through, I think I have a unique perspective. I’ve been White AND I’ve been Black.
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Hathor
I came to that conclusion because The Bureau of Justice Statistics shows the statistics for that conclusion.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/ovrelracetab.cfm
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Ó Dochartaigh, you wrote:
“Good information on the first link, I guess it makes sense there are more whites committing gang murder, when there are more whites to join gangs.”
White Gangs? You’ve got to be joking. What is a white gang? A college frat house?
If you want to consider white gangs, you have few choices. Among white gangs there are no Crips of Bloods. The only white gangs that pose a serious threat of violence are biker gangs. However, they have been relatively dormant over the last several years, largely because a lot of the most dangerous gang members are in jail, or dead.
White supremacist gangs are a lot of talk and virtually no action. Militia members live in all-white areas and do little more than shoot a few paper targets in the woods. Maybe they pretend they have bigger goals. But they do nothing.
Timothy McVeigh was obviously a schizophrenic, and he was prosecuted, convicted then executed. His co-conspirators are in jail.
You wrote:
“The thing that I noticed though was more black people commit murder overall than whites, and more white people die from murder than blacks, since the black population is so much smaller than white, that means more black people kill white people than vis versa.”
Blacks commit murder at a rate about 7 times higher than the white rate. The difference is astronomical.
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No Slappz
I didn’t create the statistics out of thin air, these are government statistics, I’m not going to argue with that. The Aryan Brotherhood is a good example.
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no_slappz,
It depends where you are, if the biker activity is down.
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To Ó Dochartaigh:
I didn’t create the statistics out of thin air, these are government statistics, I’m not going to argue with that. The Aryan Brotherhood is a good example.
I didn’t see any reference to gangs in your link and although this is something that is harped on by White Supremacists.. it is accurate…Hispanics in government statistics are classified as White when they are perpetrators.
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“Blacks commit murder at a rate about 7 times higher than the white rate. The difference is astronomical.”
The difference in the rates is large. Still, only a tiny proportion of both groups commit murder.
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hathor, you wrote:
“Now you are another person who presumes to know my experience. BTW, those people were not younger.”
You wrote:
“They were people who stayed insulated in their world and didn’t pay attention to the news. They barely knew what Black people were marching for.”
What state did these people live in? Meanwhile, if white ignorance is your pet peeve, you should show at least some peevishness about black ignorance.
You wrote:
“Nothing like having to inform white folk of the misconception and misinformation they have about the civil rights movement.”
Since most people know very little history, there’s no reason anyone should be well versed in your favorite subject. Moreover, if the uninformed person is merely uninformed, why does it matter that a white does not know the dates on which Jim Crow laws were repealed and Equal Rights became the law of the land?
You wrote:
“For example, many thought that schools that were segregated under Jim Crow, became desegregated at once. You also note that I say “some”.”
Again. So what? Were these people suggesting the country should resume Jim Crow segregation? Or were they just surprised about the dates of the change?
Meanwhile, if you want to see what happens at segregated schools, you can examine any public school in the NY City public school system. Since blacks and hispanics account for 70% of the NY City public-school student-body, it is easy to see why some schools are 100% non-white.
Extensive data on every school is available via the Internet. The performance of students at all schools is available, and for that reason responsible parents know which schools are okay, and they find ways to enroll their kids in those schools.
Sometimes they choose to move out of NY City, as many people I know have done. Idealist notions of “improving the schools” have no standing when parents have to consider the immediate future of their childrens’ educations.
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Ó Dochartaigh, you wrote:
“I didn’t create the statistics out of thin air, these are government statistics, I’m not going to argue with that. The Aryan Brotherhood is a good example.”
The Aryan Brotherhood? Another laugh. Those characters are most often seen in Hollywood movies about white supremacists. But I cannot recall any crimes committed by those meatballs in the last decade. They like to rant and rave, but they do little else.
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hathor, you wrote:
“It depends where you are, if the biker activity is down.”
Yes, it does. The Hell’s Angels NY City club house is on E. 3rd St between 1st and 2nd Avenues. I am sure they are busy making drug deals and engaging in their many criminal enterprises, but they generally stay out of public view.
As for the rest of the country, I think bikers are critical in the distribution of crystal meth. However, the crystal meth trade draws in a lot of gangs, including non-white motorcycle gangs as well as the usual Crips and Bloods, and all their derivative chapters.
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hathor, you wrote:
“Black on white murder is rarer than you think.”
How do you know what he “thinks”? Meanwhile, I have known several murder victims. Some were white and some were not. But all the murderers were black or hispanic. No white murderers in my circle of violence.
You wrote:
“It doesn’t seem that way, because of the media.”
Getting murdered is often a function of location. If more whites wandered alone into dangerous black neighborhoods late at night, then more whites would become victims of black murderers. Thus, simply by staying away, most whites can expect to live without the looming threat of murder.
Unfortunately, things did not work out that way for one person I knew who was murdered in his own home in an all-white town by a black burglar who nearly took old George’s head off with a hatchet.
You wrote:
“Even the most psychopathic Black person probably thinks twice before committing first degree murder of a white person.”
Oh. That’s a fascinating comment. Do you mean that a black killer would simply go ahead and kill a black victim without a second thought? That says a lot about how YOU think blacks view the sanctity of black life.
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Uncle Milton
This link shows homicide rate with gangs/race.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
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No_slappz,
Then don’t engage me if you are ignorant. Sort of like you bringing up the New York school system.
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I did not intend for this to become a discussion over murder rates, I was just responding to the link Ankhensen sent me.
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race is not something that can be ignored(not talking about it doesn’t solve any race related probelms) but at the same time race is not everything.. It should consume anyone’s life entirely.
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To Ó Dochartaigh:
This link shows homicide rate with gangs/race.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
As I said.. if you look at the how the FBI classifies races Hispanic perpetrators are considered White.
For example from FBI’s top ten most wanted list:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/ravelo_e.htm
Race: White (Hispanic)
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/flores_a.htm
Race: White (Hispanic)
As for gang killings.. the large majority are between gang members with some horrible exceptions:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/racist-street-gangs
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Ó Dochartaigh
I did not intend for this to become a discussion over murder rates, I was just responding to the link Ankhensen sent me.
Yeah sorry… and was responding to your links.
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“Hathor
Frank M,
I think that concept is BS whether it deals with racism or not.
Let me just say, that assumption can get you killed.”
LOL, that’s all.
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in order for stats to be believed you also must believe that every person in every sector in the judicial system is playing with clean hands. i’ve lived long enough to know that’s not true.
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just to say
I agree but that could go either way.
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no_slappz,
Do you mean that a black killer would simply go ahead and kill a black victim without a second thought? That says a lot about how YOU think blacks view the sanctity of black life.
That statement is even stupid for you.
I guess you think white murderers are beyond reproach and think the world of the people they murder, because white folk really hold the sanctity of life sacred.
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Whites trip me out about that excuse. I had a debate with one white guy over a short comic I did that highlights covert racism on a certain talk show. This dude thought what I was doing was racist, and although I explained it to him as best as I could, he wasn’t hearing it. He brought up how the NAACP was racist, how we should not make color an issue, and blah, blah, blah. In short he gave typical white responses.
Beyond pathetic.
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No_Slappz,
I dunno what to say about you, except everything you’re saying proves what they say about racist whites.
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hathor, you wrote:
““Even the most psychopathic Black person probably thinks twice before committing first degree murder of a white person.”
Then you wrote:
“I guess you think white murderers are beyond reproach and think the world of the people they murder, because white folk really hold the sanctity of life sacred.”
Nice switcheroo. The subject was YOUR belief that black murderers give more consideration to the risks of murdering a white compared with murdering a black.
How is that connected with white murderers? Whether you can admit it or not, YOU said black killers have less regard for black lives than white lives.
Given the fact that blacks commit murder at 7 times the rate of whites, this lack of regard for human life is painfully evident.
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will,
Be sure to let me know if my statements lack fact.
And if you can identify a successful black nation for me, please do.
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I wonder what is no_slappz’s purpose besides being an annoying, supposed know-it-all. 😉
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La Reyna – racism can be painful for everyone, including White people.
I am sure it is. Crack out the violins!
The Lenox Lounge up in Harlem is one place to go if you want to find “working women.”
I see you are familiar with the ‘hooker hangouts”. You probably frequent them! Who da thunk!
will,
Be sure to let me know if my statements lack fact.
And if you can identify a successful black nation for me, please do.
Is that you clarion call? Find something new to fixate on! Are you in your mother’s basement masturbating furiously as you type! Get a life! You should compose a concerto around that theme! I can see it now; There is no successful black nation! By Slappz, esquire!
Given the fact that blacks commit murder at 7 times the rate of whites, this lack of regard for human life is painfully evident.
Does that turn you on?
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no_slapps,
No wonder the market failed.
I see you have no idea what a corollary is.
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Have you cited the right person Herneith…Your first line…
or is it me, and my short-sightedness that has not manifested itself for sometime here he he??
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hathor, you wrote:
“I see you have no idea what a corollary is.”
Once again, rather than answer my question about YOUR statement, you continue to obfuscate and dance away.
If offering a corollary were relevant, we could discuss it.
However, as we both know, you admitted something you now want to hide. But because your comment was written, it is there for examination and you cannot erase it. Therefore you have chosen to change the subject.
If, after answering my question, you want to discuss your corollary, we can.
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To no_slappz:
And if you can identify a successful black nation for me, please do.
Barbados comes to mind… I am sure there are others.
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Milton, Hathor, Will…guys…no, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Do not engage!
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Ankhesen:
I just followed your link and read about Patient #1 in your Drapto Files. Great post!
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Yes, I read it that post as well. It’s really good. Btw, may I suggest a lobotomy? 😉
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leigh204,
Well…lobotomy would be more humane, I suppose….
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I read it too, Ankhesen. Clearly an accurate diagnosis of a clearly acute case.
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How about the new and improved shock treatment? I heard it works wonders for those suffering from chronic goofalitis.
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uncle milton, you wrote:
Barbados. Interesting. A former slave state that now has a per-capita GDP of $18,000.
The population is about a quarter of a million people. The median age is around 35, which means people are having children at a reasonable age.
Despite the small number of people and its origin as a slave state, it is a democratic, capitalistic nation, following English law, and it has the good fortune to have beaches that tourists want to visit.
Apparently other black nations can learn something from Barbados.
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LOL – you guys!
I’m gonna have to start writing those down. Can’t put down “ostracism” at the end of every case study. That would get dull.
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Nice. Let’s medicalize the people we disagree with so that we can (even if only jocosely) call for their physical extermination or maiming.
Wow, how liberatory.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Macon: the problem with white boys like you is that you’re frustrated fascists. There’s nothing wrong with the world that couldn’t be solved if ytou weren’t named Emporer.
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@Herneith
Hmm. I was thinking along the lines of tasering. That would be sufficient, I think. 😉
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“Emporer,” Thaddeus?
No thanks. It’s zar or nothing for me.
Though come to think of it, it would be kinda nice to hear people declare me “Mine Furor!”
Funny, I never did dream about becoming prezident. Not even a cenataur. Nor a Kongressman.
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To no_slappz
Apparently other black nations can learn something from Barbados.
You would probably include Botswana in that list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Botswana
“Botswana is formally a multiparty constitutional democracy. Each of the elections since independence in September 1966 has been freely and fairly contested and has been held on schedule. Botswana is the only nation in mainland Africa to have held free and fair elections since independence. The country’s small white minority and other minorities participate freely in the political process. There are two main rival parties and a number of smaller parties. Some argue that the openness of the country’s political system has been a significant factor in Botswana’s stability and economic growth. General elections are held at least every 5 years.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana#Economy
Main article: Economy of Botswana
Since independence, Botswana has had one of the fastest growth rates in per capita income in the world.[5] Botswana has transformed itself from one of the poorest countries in the world to a middle-income country. By one estimate, it has the fourth highest gross national income at purchasing power parity in Africa, giving it a standard of living around that of Mexico and Turkey.
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Macon D sez:
Funny, I never did dream about becoming prezident. Not even a cenataur. Nor a Kongressman.
Perhaps a Kleagle, however.
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@Thaddeus:
What’s your beef with Macon D and calling him out like that?
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My beef is that he sets himself up as the epitome of all that is good and proper for a white person to think, feel or say about race.
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Perhaps a Kleagle, however.
How interesting, dear Breast Buddy, that you would know that word. How is it, Bosum Buddy, that you know that word?
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Gee, Macon, y’know considering that I’ve taught classes on Reconstruction, the Klan and its rebirth in the 1920s… hell, how would I know that word?
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I have no beef with your views, per se. I do have a beef with the idea that people who disagree with you needs must be mentally ill or racist f$%¨wits.
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Your oft-expressed view, I might add.
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Ah. Good to hear that you don’t have a more intimate and personal acquaintance with that word.
Re “me,” I have no idea what you’re talking about. I haven’t “set myself up” as anything. And certainly not as a Kleagle.
I run my blog in order to clarify, delineate, and work against egregious common white tendencies (especially in myself) and to welcome others to help with that. I also try to work against the broader fact of de facto white supremacy. I also especially appreciate Abagond’s and others’ regular work in that respect.
I’ve never claimed some special status. I know that I’ve got a long way to go, and that I’ll never really get there. How could I? I’m trained to be “white.” The more of this work I do, the more humble I get, not the opposite. My white racial training has been so deep, subtle, and extensive that I’ll never come to understand it all. Same goes for the multifarious ways in which our social order remains, in effect, white supremacist. I’m just trying to understand and work against it all, because it hurts and kills other people, and I’m glad others are too.
I have no beef with your views, per se. I do have a beef with the idea that people who disagree with you needs must be mentally ill or racist f$%¨wits.
Oh, so you DO have a beef with my views. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t object to how I (supposedly) treat people who disagree with me.
“disagree with you needs”? Speak English, please! Then I could know, you see, what you’re trying to say.
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Thad, Macon, come on now! Try to get along!
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Good on you Macon d. Some people need to be put in their place. Very hypocritical of Thad, he belittles anyone who doesn’t agree with him and resorts to namecalling. He starts swearing when he can’t get through to you LMAO!
How many people pn this blog has he clashed with and patronized because he disagreed with them?
You have an excellent blog Macon d, well next to Abagond of course, keep up the good work 😉
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macon d said
“Wow, this conversation is heading off the rails right quick — sorry if I contributed to that (reminds me of why I started moderating comments on my blog).
ColorOfLuv and Patricia Kayden, why are you so fixated on making sure that people here know that “other people do that too!” or that “oppression comes in other forms too, ya know!” Honestly, in a discussion racism, which occurs within an ongoing, de facto white supremacist context, who cares? Go have those conversations in, you know, other conversations.”
Actually Macon D,
This fixation on White racism is getting tiring and boring. We all know that there are some Whites who are racist. So what? How many times can we beat that dog to death?
What about the issues that impact the Black community that go beyond racism? What about the Black on Black crime (mostly in the form of Black men killing each other)?
What about the 50 drop out rate for Black youths?
What about the out of wedlock births (up to 75%)?
It’s fun and easy to speak about White racism as if that is the greatest problem for Blacks while ignoring the problems which require us Blacks to do some introspection and make some changes.
While I admire Abagond’s blog, I don’t see why he focuses so much on White racism, when there is sexism and other ills that Blacks need to challenge within our community.
Trust me when I say that despite White racism, there are mnay Blacks who are doing well and living the American dream.
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@FG – I have to disagree as for the ‘obsession with race’ bit.
Americans are in fact always the first (at least in the industrialised world) to put ‘race’ before everything and construct virtually every aspect of their lives around it. It starts with the so-called ‘white neighbourhoods’. Then the escape to other neighbourhoods once minorities start to move in and a certain ‘threshold’ is reached. It continues with the ‘race’ checkbox on all sorts of government forms and usually ends up in pointless ‘this is a white thing’ vs ‘is this a black thing’ discussions. You seem to have to conform to certain absurd unwritten rules, even as for things like the music you’re supposed to listen to (or to make if you’re a musician), the clothes you wear, the sports you make, the cars you drive etc… Once you step out of the pattern you’re considered a ‘whitewash’, a ‘wigger’ or just plain ‘weird’. The whole life is based on patterns and categories.
I used to live in the US for several years btw.
Now that one of my grandmothers is from Cameroun, that would clearly make me ‘black’ in the US according to the ‘rules’ that everybody seems to tacitly agree on. Well, in Europe I’m just me Femi for everybody, full stop. I’m one out of everybody else cos I was born and raised here and speak the same language as most other people who were also born and raised in my country (France). Most people don’t even realise my background because … and that’s the point … they couldn’t care less. I have (girl)friends from all sorts of backgrounds because there’s nothing that prevents me from it. Sometimes people might ask me if I’m mediterranean or Arab because their parents are immigrants from there. But that’s about it as for ‘race’ talk.
NOW talking (very loud and clear) about RACISM is a totally different pair of shoes. We do that all the time over here, all ethnic groups included. And it’s very necessary that we do. There are a few racist groups scattered all over Europe (the islands included) and they are quite verbal, the opposite of PC and sometimes even violent.
BUT… and that’s the point… you can always count on someone from the same ethnic group those rascists come from to blow the whistle and shout ‘RACIST’. In other words, if a blonde blue-eyed discriminates against me, I can be sure that another blonde blue-eyed will stand up for me. PLUS I will gladly accept the support.
I think that’s what the difference is all about. Americans do like to talk a lot about ‘race’ but when it comes to openly and publicly denounce racism (if ever) you can be quite sure that you’ll have support only from ‘your own’ ethnic group and all the other fellow citizens turn away.
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To Femi – I know exactly where you’re coming from. I lived for several years in Europe. (Also Brazil and speak Brazilian Portuguese.)
Please know that there are a lot of people here who also speak out against racism. I have called out many individuals(in a rare case reported an organization) and have even been involved in physical altercations.
Believe me, If I could make the race issue go away, I would wave my magic wand. Unfortunately, I can’t do that, so I do what I can that is within my control.
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“Americans are in fact always the first (at least in the industrialised world) to put ‘race’ before everything and construct virtually every aspect of their lives around it. It starts with the so-called ‘white neighbourhoods’. Then the escape to other neighbourhoods once minorities start to move in and a certain ‘threshold’ is reached.”
There is a great deal of neighborhood segregation in the United States. I don’t think white-flight occurs because of race per-se. Rather, whites fear the underclass elements of minority populations, but have a hard time distinguishing them from mainstream minorities. They thus feel the urge to move out whenever a large number of blacks or, nowadays, Hispanics move in.
“It continues with the ‘race’ checkbox on all sorts of government forms…”
The collection of information on race by the government is anti-racist in intent. It’s meant to track discrimination, disparities in outcomes, etc.
“…and usually ends up in pointless ‘this is a white thing’ vs ‘is this a black thing’ discussions. You seem to have to conform to certain absurd unwritten rules, even as for things like the music you’re supposed to listen to (or to make if you’re a musician), the clothes you wear, the sports you make, the cars you drive etc… Once you step out of the pattern you’re considered a ‘whitewash’, a ‘wigger’ or just plain ‘weird’. The whole life is based on patterns and categories.”
It is ridiculous that people need to act a certain way because of their racial background. I don’t think whites are the ones pushing this, though. Many African Americans and Hispanics have strong notions of ethnic “authenticity” and put pressure on co-ethnics to conform to these.
“Now that one of my grandmothers is from Cameroun, that would clearly make me ‘black’ in the US according to the ‘rules’ that everybody seems to tacitly agree on. ”
That’s a common misunderstanding. Based on my experiences, it would seem that the One Drop Rule is essentially dead in the United States. In practice, most Americans classify people into white, black, and mixed categories based on their phenotype. Some minority interest groups and individuals do push the One Drop principle, but the reason they feel the need to do this is because this bizarre categorization system is so weak on the ground.
“Well, in Europe I’m just me Femi for everybody, full stop. I’m one out of everybody else cos I was born and raised here and speak the same language as most other people who were also born and raised in my country (France). Most people don’t even realise my background because … and that’s the point … they couldn’t care less. I have (girl)friends from all sorts of backgrounds because there’s nothing that prevents me from it. Sometimes people might ask me if I’m mediterranean or Arab because their parents are immigrants from there. But that’s about it as for ‘race’ talk.”
Those Arab and African youth who rioted in Paris back in 2005 seemed to have a less sanguine view of European race relations. Not to mention the black soccer players who are referred to as simians by the crowds in stands at games played on the Continent.
“There are a few racist groups scattered all over Europe (the islands included) and they are quite verbal, the opposite of PC and sometimes even violent.”
Fortunately white Americans tend not to form large scale parties and organizations with explicitly racist or nationalist goals. The Republic Party does push for the interests of the white majority (by opposing affirmative action for instance). However, there’s nothing on the order of the BNP over here.
“BUT… and that’s the point… you can always count on someone from the same ethnic group those rascists come from to blow the whistle and shout ‘RACIST’. In other words, if a blonde blue-eyed discriminates against me, I can be sure that another blonde blue-eyed will stand up for me. PLUS I will gladly accept the support.
I think that’s what the difference is all about. Americans do like to talk a lot about ‘race’ but when it comes to openly and publicly denounce racism (if ever) you can be quite sure that you’ll have support only from ‘your own’ ethnic group and all the other fellow citizens turn away.”
That’s preposterous. There are large numbers of white liberals and feminists who have worked hard to end racism in the United States.
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“The collection of information on race by the government is anti-racist in intent. It’s meant to track discrimination, disparities in outcomes, etc.”
‘In intent’. But how does that translate to reality de facto? It can be (mis)used for all sorts of purposes which are not necessarily benign.
“Those Arab and African youth who rioted in Paris back in 2005 seemed to have a less sanguine view of European race relations. Not to mention the black soccer players who are referred to as simians by the crowds in stands at games played on the Continent.”
The rioting youths were a mixture of ALL KINDS of backgrounds. A mixture of disadvantaged, unemployed, frustrated and anti-right wing young people. Young people who don’t appreciate being called ‘racaille’ by their own minister of interior. It was not an Arab/Black vs White thing – which the US media liked to bias it through their ‘race’ tinted glasses. It was a ‘why do they have everything and we have nothing’ outcry and a general frustration about a reactionary, discriminatory and potentially repressive system. An outcry of those who see the wealthy being promoted and the underdogs being left out in the rain. France has quite a history of civil disobedience which flares up occasionally, especially among younger people. The general consensus is that if you don’t voice your opinion loud enough things are very unlikely to ever improve.
As for the slur against the football players, the media were full of reports about it over here. There were many controversies going on whether to track every football fan and call for Europe wide bans for those identified in the incidents. As I mentioned earlier, nobody over here will deny the existence of those bigots away. They are loud enough for that matter. The bigots are quite easily spotted and defeated though. However, as long as there is bigotry there will always be open confrontation which by far not only includes the ethnic groups the slur was directed against. They wouldn’t stand a chance on their own anyway. I may recall the fact that the vast majority in Europe is well aware that something like the nazis must never happen again.
“That’s preposterous. There are large numbers of white liberals and feminists who have worked hard to end racism in the United States.”
I would never deny that there is genuine effort being made everywhere in the world but why is virtually every aspect of life still defined through ‘race’ then? Still in 2010? Perhaps it’s just me but when I lived in the US I always felt a permanent bombardement of subtleties, disguised in political correctness. Of course I have never been attacked in a vicious way but neither have I in Europe.
By the way, I don’t intend to generalise @ ColorOfLuv. As I said, there are certainly genuine efforts but they do seem to fall on deaf ears with the majority still. Could it be that the majority just quietly agree for the most part?
As for the BNP, FN and similar tumours of our societies; they are what they are, demagogic populists that target the simple-minded but will never ultimately reach the majorities. Rest assured, some of the heads in the FN for instance have quite a bit in common with Dick Cheney and the likes. The right-wingers and other neo-nazis are being dealt with over here, no doubt about it. There is a constant reminder that the nazis got to power through democratic elections and ‘freedom of speech’.
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According to the APA Publication Manual Sixth Edition, “Language that essentializes or reifies race is strongly discouraged and is generally considered inappropriate. For example, phrases such as ‘the Black race’ and ‘the White race’ are essentialist in nature, portray human groups monolithically, and often serve to perpetuate stereotypes” (p.75).
In addition, “the use of colors to refer to other human groups currently is considered pejorative and should not be used” (p.75).
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BklynBryan says,
Maybe if some people would make friends with people from other ethnicities … the world would be a better place.
laromana says,
It would be GREAT if the power structure of American society (which happens to be White) DESTROYED the WHITE PRIVILEGE/INSTITUTIONAL RACISM they’ve created and followed your advice. Until that happens RACISM (and finding ways to CONFRONT/DESTROY it) will continue to be a NECESSARY topic of discussion.
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No_Slappz says “Be sure to let me know if my statements lack fact. And if you can identify a successful black nation for me, please do.”
The problem is I’m sure people came to you with facts upon facts with actual research from nonbiased sources. YOU’RE problem is that you can not and will not accept them because to you, it doesn’t reasonate with your own brand of “thinking”. There is no use trying to talk to you or people who think like you. You’re just trying to derail arguments pertaining to a certain subject matter because you can’t stand listening to people who disagree with you.
You can go ahead and respond with your predictable rants continuing to make yourself look foolish. As for me I’m moving on because apparently arguing with you is your sense of pleasure.
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WOW! “White Privilege” I’ve never heard that one before. “White Privilege” is a myth.
I guess all of the poor white trash living in trailer parks have white privilege also. Yeah they are so privileged to live in a trailer park.
It is called the merit system. You work hard for something and then you go out and achieve your goal.
It is sad how you classify a group of people by skin color and blame every single one of them (that is how is sounds).
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Thoreau!!!! They told me you were dead! Welcome!!
White privilege is not the only sort of privilege, of course. But even as it is poor whites live LONGER on average than middle-class blacks – and, according to the government, have higher reading scores too (though you would never know it from this blog).
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No!!! Are you for real?
“White” people have a higher literacy rate than “blacks”?
Black & White, White & Black
I hate to see how some people would treat
biracial children.
Do you also hate biracial children as well as “white” people?
or do you only half hate them?
Racist people are sick!!!
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That is easy for you to say – you apparently are white or rich. Or too young to know what you are talking about.
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“I hate to see how some people would treat
biracial children.”
The same way they have been treating them for the past 400 years! Since a large percentage of blacks have at least 12% European admixture, they are all biracial! Some more recent than others. Therefore, I would imagine, they would be treated the same way as other ‘biracials’, a huge percentage of the African American population!
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Most whites have never experienced racism nor do they have to think about their race the majority of the time because they and we live in a white world run by and geared toward whites.
So, if anyone is keeping racism alive it’s the white people who choose to bury their heads in the sand and try and pretend the world is color blind – and that hundreds of years of oppression – some of which took place most overtly in my life time – can just be brushed away if we would simply stop talking about it.
Meanwhile the ranks of the Klan continue to grow and republican staffers feel it’s okay to liken our president, first lady and their children to gorillas. Who’s keeping it alive?
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I found this on live nation. I’m sure many of you will recognize these tactics in others or yourself.
In the tradition of How to Suppress Discussions of Racism (which, in turn was in the tradition of How to Suppress Women’s Writing), I give you, the secret memo that apparently the white people got:
The Art of Defending Racism
Doing something racist is easy- you don’t even have to think about it. But keeping racism alive? That takes work! Luckily for you, racism is deeply entrenched in our society, so all you need to do is hold the gates against those who would try to dislodge it, and let them wear themselves out. You’ll want to use the tactics listed below to protect your own racist behavior, as well as those of others- after all- racism works because we work together!
Winning the war against equality!
No matter what, your objective is to be able to maintain these three beliefs at the end of any exchange:
1) I’m not racist.
2) I didn’t do anything wrong.
3) I don’t have to change at all.
If you can hold on to that, then you win!
How it works
Like a drinking problem or drug habit, racism works best when no one is willing to talk about it, and even better, when everyone works together to cover up the problem. The most important thing is to make sure that you can hide your problem from yourself- it’s key in maintaining those 3 beliefs that will keep you racist for a lifetime!
Saying or doing something racist will come naturally to you- but defending it? You’ll want to use one of the following tactics. They’re listed from the more soft handed and defensive tactics to the most aggressive, giving you a full range of options! Don’t worry, whether you’re liberal, conservative, in the closet racist, or tatooed and ready for Rahowa, there’s something here for you!
Tactical options:
A. It’s not that serious
1. We didn’t know better (and we never will)
2. You’re too sensitive
3. It’s not a big deal because it’s just (a movie, a song, a book, words, etc.)
4. Why should we care? (You don’t matter anyway)
5. We didn’t mean any harm (But we’ll do it again)
6. I was drunk on klanschlager/high on nazi-X/taking Xanax
B. But!
1. POC do XYZ to themselves (so it’s ok that we also do XYZ)
2. I’m oppressed too!
3. Hey! Look at sexism/classicism/Global Warming! Diversion
4. One POC says it’s cool
5. POC can discriminate too!
6. What about reverse racism?
7. We’re not discriminating AS MUCH (as other people/as we used to), isn’t that good?!? Give me a cookie.
8. My best friend/spouse/adopted child/my ancestor 5 generations back is POC
9. I’ve done XYZ, which proves I’m not racist, and I get a free pass for anything else I do.
C. Dismissal!
1. You’re oppressing me by making me be “PC”
2. You’re too stupid to be in this conversation and everything you say doesn’t matter
3. Racism is over now (Obama, remember)?
4. IF WE DON’T TALK ABOUT IT, IT’LL MAGICALLY GO AWAY
5. Under my definition- it’s not racist
6. You’re too angry/You’re being irrational
7. Racism has always existed, we can’t fix it, you should stop complaining.
D. Threats
1. Be glad it isn’t worse, we could be doing XYZ/I’ll give you a reason to cry
2. You brought this on yourself/ If you people didn’t… XYZ
3. Go back to where you came from!
You can read it in full at: http://community.livejournal.com/sex_and_race/296541.html
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Bahamas and Bermuda are Black ru n and do very well. Bermuda is amazing! Clean, peaceful, rich and great ppl with pride.
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Will, you wrote:
“No_Slappz says “Be sure to let me know if my statements lack fact. And if you can identify a successful black nation for me, please do.” ”
So far, the only black nation qualifying as a relatively successful nation is Barbados. But its population is tiny, tiny tiny at a mere quarter of a million people.
Someone mentioned Botswana. Yeah, Botswana is a great place if you think a nation in which 24% of the population is HIV+ and its population of 2 million is declining by 11,000 people a year due to death from AIDS, then yeah, it’s a great place.
It’s big economic advantage is its diamond reserves. Diamonds account for the bulk of its economy and 75% of its exports, like oil in muslim countries. Outside of natural resources, Botswana has little else.
Another interesting feature of both Barbados and Botswana is the absence of muslims. In both nations, the majority identify themselves as Protestants. That orientation seems to correlate with economic well being.
As for Bermuda, well, its economic well being is due to its unique tax status. And I think the US Marine Corps continues to operate a camp there.
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Much of Africa is obviously quite troubled, though things seem to be ameliorating gradually. States need certain things to succeed, including a common language, culture, and identity . Many of these African countries had none of these when they achieved their independence, hence the chaos. However, I’m optimistic in the future judging by all the talented and enterprising people from the continent I meet over here.
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Among white states, America is interesting. Despite its origin as a slave state, it is a democratic, capitalistic nation, following English law.
Apparently other white nations can learn something from America.
Its big economic advantage is that it has more farmland than China and yet is thinly populated. In addition it has the world’s largest military, a currency that is used to settle international debts and, as a safe haven, it receives billions in foreign investment and flight capital.
Another interesting feature is the absence of Muslims. The majority identify themselves as Protestants. That orientation seems to correlate with economic well being.
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Haha Abagond. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Tongue in cheek. I think you need to do a post on all the poor white countries. I’ve travelled all over the world and trust me, there’s a lot of white people in poor and even so called white middle class countries that live hand to mouth existences.
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@ Thoreau
When people talk about “white priviledge” which isn’t a myth they don’t mean something as in living in a big house and having riches that were inherited by shlave owners or any of that stuff. Go to macond D’s blog stuff white people do look up Tim Wise or look in previous post right here on Abagond’s blog.
If you can walk in a shop and not be followed around that is white priviledge. If you can get angry for a suitable reason and not be viewed as typical angry person by nature that is white priviledge. If you have never been stopped in a “nice” (white)neighbourhood driving a expensive car, that’s white priviledge. If you can fly a plane into a federal building killing people and get sympathy and having people saying “I know how the guy feel” and even calling him a hero. That is white priviledge!
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Thank you, Aiyo. Those were great examples, particularly the last one.
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The problem with white privilege isn’t that it doesn’t exist, Aiyo. The problem is when it – or any other form of privilege – is seen as being absolutely determinist of an individual’s chances in life.
Wise and Macon feel all out of sorts about white race privilege, but I highly doubt that either of them seriously questions THEIR OWN class privilege. That, I’m sure, they see as simply the just fruits of their own individual labors in life.
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FG said:
“Much of Africa is obviously quite troubled, though things seem to be ameliorating gradually. States need certain things to succeed, including a common language, culture, and identity . Many of these African countries had none of these when they achieved their independence, hence the chaos.”
This is a half truth! Many states throughout history and today have kept themselves together without having a common language, culture or identity!
The reason why most African countries became failed states is because of the “Power Vacuum” which was caused in part by the colonial powers leaving!
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FG, you wrote:
“Much of Africa is obviously quite troubled, though things seem to be ameliorating gradually.”
Are you sure you are writing about the Africa on Planet Earth?
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aiyo, you wrote:
“If you can walk in a shop and not be followed around that is white priviledge.”
News flash. On more than one occasion I have handled merchandise in Costco in a way that caused security people to approach me and tell me not to do what I was doing.
You wrote:
“If you can get angry for a suitable reason and not be viewed as typical angry person by nature that is white priviledge.”
One day I was in line to pay for a purchase at my favorite Korean Deli near my office. A black woman ahead of me began yelling at the cashier — the female Korean store owner — about shabby treatment. Having shopped there daily for a couple of years, I saw nothing but efficient and honest service.
The black complainer ranted about the attitude of the store owner, which was obviously a product of the complainer’s imagination. I have encountered this scenario a number of times over the years. The black alternate reality problem.
You wrote:
“If you have never been stopped in a “nice” (white)neighbourhood driving a expensive car, that’s white priviledge.”
Yeah. And I guess it’s white privilege when I am in black neighborhoods and repeatedly offered drugs.
You wrote:
“If you can fly a plane into a federal building killing people and get sympathy and having people saying “I know how the guy feel” and even calling him a hero. That is white priviledge!”
Hero? No credible person called that clown a hero. But leave it to a reporter with a sense of what will attract readers to quote a dope willing to make a ridiculous statement. Meanwhile, blacks are still defending OJ Simpson and/or claiming he did NOT kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.
I was surprised to find myself in a discussion of this topic in an upscale black bar in Brooklyn several months ago.
Meanwhile, black criminals routinely get warm welcomes from black political leaders after they are released from prison. Like Mike Tyson in Harlem after completing his sentence for rape (however, had I been on the jury, I would have voted to acquit).
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There are a lot of White people that actually do understand the concept of White Priviledge as you described it because they have suffered through similar occurrences:
They are mostly U.S. Soldiers stationed overseas and they are Black, Brown, White, Puerto Rican, etc…
For example: Race was not a factor, but the fact that you were a U.S. Soldier was. Therefore, while in Germany, many soldiers, independent of race/ethnicity were:
1. Refused Cabs while Germans a few feet away were accpeted.
2. Followed around in stores with ever vigilant eyes less the “lowly US soldier try to steal something.
3. Told “entry into this club required “special membership”
4. Not given respectful customer service and looked down up on while the Germans were treated with respect…
The list goes on. . . All soldiers were treated this way, even the White ones.
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Life is hard. Some people need to stop pointing fingers and blaming others because you aren’t where you want to be in life (that is something that LOSERS do).
Let’s all be winners and not losers.
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To Aiyo
“If you can fly a plane into a federal building killing people and get sympathy and having people saying “I know how the guy feel” and even calling him a hero. That is white priviledge!”
Hardly the domain of White privilege, Lovelle Mixon killed four Oakland police officers and ended having a march in his honor attended by over 60 people:
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-03-26/news/17213584_1_mixon-s-mother-marchers-officers
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ColorofLuv,
that has happened to me when i was in europe. waiters and bartenders would purposely ignore me, people would give me bad looks and be rude to me…not everyone, but once in a while. especially in france. and if you have blond hair and go to italy, be ready to get some stares…
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One of the problems the African nations which are rich in resources are facing is “The paradox of plenty”, (apart from all sorts of conflicts, HIV etc. which are more or less a direct consequence of this). It means roughly that the income being made in countries which are rich in resources but poor in economic diversification is easily channeled to a small elite which reinvest the profits only back into this one business. The wealth is not distributed by investing in other branches of the local economy and infrastructure and by creating more equitable job opportunities for everybody. This is made possible largely through corruption and control from Northern/Western investors. Some call it kleptocracy.
The classic stages in resource rich African countries are – depletion of resources with cheap labour – export to the industrialised world – personal enrichment of a few – shifting of profits to overseas tax havens. Then a large part of the money that remains in the country goes into weapons and building an army and police to protect this system from the underprivileged masses.
Back to the ‘race’ discussion. I’ve read somewhere ‘the day people cease to celebrate their differences they’ll suddenly have enough time to build upon their commonalities’.
By the way, if my grandparents had been concerned about their differences I wouldn’t be sitting here…
It seems like – apart from the brainwashing from a young age on – some people have too much time on their hands to search for yet another new way to differentiate themselves from other ethnic groups. It would be much more productive to use that time to get together and create something useful, inspiring or beautiful for everybody.
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News flash. On more than one occasion I have handled merchandise in Costco in a way that caused security people to approach me and tell me not to do what I was doing.
What were you doing? Fondling women’s underwear? I saw a man doing this at a clothing store whilst leering suggestively at the female customers. After twenty minutes or so, the security ran him out of the store. If you were doing something along those lines such as fondling tools suggestively, they would have probably told you not to handle the products thusly, as people shop with their kids there. Wait you shop at Costco? I didn’t know they had a Costco in Brooklyn. When I visit New York, Costco will be one of my must sees as it is one of my favourite haunts!
One day I was in line to pay for a purchase at my favorite Korean Deli near my office. A black woman ahead of me began yelling at the cashier — the female Korean store owner — about shabby treatment. Having shopped there daily for a couple of years, I saw nothing but efficient and honest service.
Since you’re one of her best customers, she is always courteous and polite to you! Perhaps she shows a different attitude towards black ones. You should have stepped in and helped the black woman out! Perhaps she wouldn’t have resorted to such shenanigans! Maybe asked out for a date!
Yeah. And I guess it’s white privilege when I am in black neighborhoods and repeatedly offered drugs.
What did you buy? Geez, your full of surprises! I guess all black neighbourhoods are like this! Every infant, child, man and woman is selling drugs! Even the nonagenarians are! They probably hide the drugs in their walkers. The infants learn to sell drugs before they can walk or talk! This is what I call capitalism at it’s best. Every person is utilized in the promoting and selling of a product. Human capital is not wasted!
I was surprised to find myself in a discussion of this topic in an upscale black bar in Brooklyn several months ago.
First of all, for someone who expresses constant disdain for blacks, you sure frequent a lot of ‘black’ places! High end hooker hangouts, drug infested neighbourhoods, Korean delicatessens where black women routinely curse out the owners, ‘high end’ black bars as opposed to low end ones etc. You also go to Costco and ‘handle’ products inappropriately to the point you are warned by the staff not to do so. Now that’s bizarre!
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LOL @ Herneith 🙂
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No_Slappz has a serious crush on black people! I keep telling you all that 😉
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What is racism? Who is a racist? What makes racism more important than sexism and ageism?
Is racism more important to a victim of racism?
Is sexism a bigger issue to a victim of sexism?
What about black women who suffer both racism and sexism?
Do the elderly see ageism as more important than racism and sexism?
Who determines the weight of a particular issue?
It is up to the individual or a group of people to claim that a certain form of discrimination is greater than the other.
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Derek/Brooklyn Bryan/Thoreau/Sybil, etc:
New rule: I reserve the right to ban sock puppets and their puppet masters.
First, it is tiresome for me to keep saying “x is a sock puppet of y”. Second, there is no honest reason to keep changing your name.
So right now settle on one name to post under. Otherwise if you keep changing your name, I will ban you.
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@MerriMay:
Maybe a black woman turned him down and he has been pi##ed ever since! Hahahahaha!!!
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And why are you being so heterosexist in your assumptions regarding NS, Herneith….? 😉
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Thad – going to sneak this in. Go over to the suggestions page and respond. I’m curious on your perspective regarding Political Correctness in Brazil: Not on race but in the general sense.
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Herneith
Lol I’d have to agree, that’s the only thing that makes sense. I think he sees his unrequited love in all of us 🙂
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Ban the white man!!!
RAAAACISM!!!
The only reason that you want to ban me is because the TRUTH hurts!!!
All of your arguements are based on your subjective opinion!!!
Where are the facts? Where are your references?
You make statements like “95% of white people are racist.” Where did you get that from?
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously? Everything that you claim and say is subjective!!! Try to be objective because your blatent bias is very ignorant.
Ban me, I don’t care!!!
Bottom line is that “Abagone” is full of $#!+ and everyone knows it (including your pathetic prejudice/racism/ignorant followers).
Abagone = RAAAACIST!!!/Conspiracy Theorist
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[clap, clap, clap]
Thank you Derek, for giving us a great example of the phenomenon known as “butthurt”.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Butthurt
Would you like me to call a Waaaaaaaaambulance?
Stick to one handle, kiddo, and no one will censure you.
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Derek is exhibiting a classic example of this derailment tactics:
You’re Arguing With Opinions Not Fact and
Unless You Can Prove Your Experience Is Widespread I Won’t Believe It
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And why are you being so heterosexist in your assumptions regarding NS, Herneith….?
Because I am a sexist she pig! You are right though, it is wrong to assume that NS is heterosexual. He/she could be either or, or anything in between!
Ban me, I don’t care!!!
Why? Just pick a name and stick to it! Otherwise stop drinking and smoking spliffs! Perhaps it will clear your mind!
Bottom line is that “Abagone” is full of $#!+ and everyone knows it (including your pathetic prejudice/racism/ignorant followers).
If I were Abagond, I would ban you just for spelling my name wrong! As for being full of sh*t, everyone is, else how would the body get rid of those quarter pounders, colon clogging Big Macs, calorie challenged foods and cholesterol enhanced cuisines?
Abagone = RAAAACIST!!!/Conspiracy Theorist
Here I was thinking I was mathematically challenged!
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Well,yes,but white racism in 2010 is more an example of the ignorance
eddemic in the U.S. which allows race-baiters such as Limbaugh,O’
Reilly,the Savage Weiner,Beck,Prage,etc.,to appeal to the white working class who have the same economic challenges as working-class people
of colour.While these white acolytes and apologists for the demagogues scream ‘Yeah!!!!,”It’s all the n****rs’,sp*cs’,broads'(nane other historical-
ly oppressed group),the white men-the VAST MAJORITY of these
radio brayers are men-who themselves are filthy rich,use their influence with racist Republicans and some Democrats to pass anti-worker,misogynistic and bigoted laws designed to preserve
“white,wealthy male privilege,”while spreading a fractional amount of their ill-gotten bounty to white workers and middle-class types,enough to whet their appetites for more,which they don’t get,for which minorities are blamed.
In short,the white non-rich vote their perceived race interests,NOT their TRUE class interests,while the affluent ALWAYS act in accordance to THEIR class interests.
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To Ankhesen:
And as will the next, and the next after that, and the next after that as well, until whites in America are finally a minority and no longer have any choice but to face their ugly truths.
Well I am minority at my workplace and a member of a plurality in the town where I live but the people around me don’t seem to be angry and bitter for the most part. They’re mostly Asian. I know it’s common for some people to lump people of color / non-whites into the same boat but the general reactions I receive from various racial groups is not at all the same. What is your idea about facing truths..?
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Yes Black people keep racism alive..bottom line.
but only the ignorant ones, the ones who dwell in the past, steal other peoples history and inventions..the gullible ones so seduced by Afrocentric bogus beliefs and sciences..*shakes head*
The problem with these people is that their egos have become too big for their own reality…They cannot accept the fact that the WHITE MAN did enslave them, but so did every other man on the planet, including their own people(and still do today)
Their egos also forces them to steal history, distort religion and follow any Afrocentric snake oil salesman that comes down the pike of stupidity..smh
The Black people whom embrace western culture and are law-biding citizens, so-called UNCLE TOM are GREAT ADDITIONS TO SOCIETY..I welcome them with open arms..It’s the “IGNINT” mofos, who whine and complain about “YT” but would not dare leave white lands..what would they do without us? Africa would not accept the scumbags.
Wake up Afrocentric, Black Nationalist, “Pro-Black” morons…Reality is calling!!!
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to the last troll that commented hop off out of this blog.
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@Aiyo…Truth hurts….Doesn’t it?
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Wow. Looks like some racists are REALLY buttsore over Obama. 😀
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@The Silly White Man
Silly silly white man you are a perfect example of what brainwashing and conditioning Can do…I could write something clever or slick but you’ve already defeated yourself.
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Interesting And Insightful Subjects.
This Blog Is extremely profound,your subjects seem to be an evolution in the dialog or lack thereof between black/meleninated sapiens and white/albinic sapiens.
An Interesting indication of the truth or validity of you posts is how the same pattern of counter arguments by racist white men are used in your posts about their counter arguments!
These posts have been very helpful to me psychologically because ,as painful and embarrassing it is to admit I’ve been repeatedly swayed and demoralized by them.
And My few defenses have been to either lash out with insults and profanity and/or avoid “any” interaction with alleged suspects.
Now Browsing your Blog and related links gives me the comprehension I need to deal with a constant issue in my and many other peoples life.
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Frank M. said
“Although I agree that the argument is false, I think it touches on a much deeper concept. For each of us, what we give focus and attention to DOES come into our lives.
The concept is bigger than racism, and is actually the Law of Attraction. ”
Sorry Frank
I was a little suspicious ,then I googled Law of Attraction and I’m not going to post the result of my findings because
1.I don’t have the resources (time,energy,etc) as a result of my oppression ,discrimination by white albinic people ,misfortune ,whatever you want to name it.
2.Most of the people who comment here are able to google this themselves and find the same thing I found.
Abagond, perhaps you might consider doing a post about this “blame the victim,persudoscientific argument as well,as this is not the first time I’ve encountered it.
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once again you have hit the nail straight on the head. excellent blog.
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Here’s the thing…nobody while will ever experience what it’s like to live life as a non-white. Therefore, white people can only talk in terms of how they see life. I have always said that “race” is a human constraint. We compartmentalize groups based on their skin colors, ethnicity, religion, politics, etc. Spending so much time on what makes us different is part of the problem!
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRnTovm26I4)
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^^^ the infamous Morgan Freeman quote.
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Why is M. Freeman’s quote so heinous to you? Is he right or wrong? If he’s wrong, spell out why he is.
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Racism is a wide ocean and some have swallowed more of the water than others.
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Because of white fragility
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