The following is based on Chapter 4 of Frantz Fanon’s book “Black Skin, White Masks” (1952): “The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized”:
Mannoni, a French psychoanalyst, wanted to understand the mind of the native and the white colonial based on his experience and study of Madagascar under French rule in the 1930s and 1940s. Himself a white colonial, he wrote a book about it, “The Psychology of Colonization” (1950). Frantz Fanon, himself a native (not of Madagascar but of Martinique) spends this chapter tearing it to pieces.
French rule of Madagascar was cruel. They used Senegalese soldiers to strike fear into the hearts of natives. In 1947 the French put down an uprising, killing 80,000 natives. As if that were not enough, in the footnotes Fanon tells of the French practice of torture in Madagascar.
Fanon calls the use of black soldiers to force French rule on people of colour “the racial allocation of guilt”. He quotes Francis Jeanson:
And if, apparently, you manage not to soil your hands, it’s because others are doing the dirty work in your place. You have your henchmen, and all things considered, you are the real guilty party; for without you, without your blind indifference, such men could not undertake acts that condemn you as much as they dishonor them.
So with all that in mind, here is the picture that Mannoni paints:
- Most natives are content to put whites above them and be dependent on them because it fulfils a deep need in their hearts, one that was there long before whites showed up. Mannoni calls this a dependency complex.
- A few natives are unhappy because they suffer from an inferiority complex, which makes them want to be the equal of whites.
- Not all peoples can be colonized: only those who experience the need.
- European civilization and its agents of the highest calibre are not responsible for colonial racism. It comes from lower-level whites who blame their unhappy lives on the natives.
- When black men with guns appear in children’s dreams at night it is not because of the terror of French rule: no, the guns stand for penises.
The only part that Fanon feels Mannoni got at least part right:
- White colonials suffer from a Prospero complex. Just like the Prospero in Shakespeare’s “The Tempest”, they want to lord it over the natives. The colonies draw those whites who cannot accept others as they are, who do not want to have to take other men seriously but instead want to lord it over them.
Fanon:
I start suffering from not being a white man insofar as the white man discriminates against me; turns me into a colonized subject; … tells me I am a parasite in the world … So I will try quite simply to make myself white; in other words, I will force the white man to acknowledge my humanity. But, Monsieur Mannoni will tell us, you can’t, because deep down inside you there is a dependency complex.
See also:
- Manoni: Prospero and Caliban: the psychology of colonization – a preview at Google Books
- Frantz Fanon
- Frantz Fanon: Black Skin, White Masks
- darkies
- The white lens
- drapetomania – slaves run away because they suffer from drapetomania!
- Tirailleurs Senegalais – more on the black soldiers that France used to rule their empire
- “My family never owned slaves”
- How to argue like a white racist
Personally, and once again I think this is an inaccurate precis of the chapter.
I am beginning to wonder on what actually is going on here??
As a result I went and re-read briefly through the chapter (here read skim)…. This I believe are the key points.
As I move on to my next post…
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This is my emphasis:
1. Fanon begins the chapter with the following quote from Aime Cesaire: “In the whole world no poor devil is lynched, no wretch tortured, in whom I too am not degraded and murdered”
2. “He propose to show that although Mr. Mannoni has devoted 225 pages to the study of the colonial situation[he] has NOT understood its real coordinates.”
3. He find “myself opposing [Mannoni] when I read a sentence like this: ‘The fact that when an adult Malagasy is siolated in a different environment he can become susceptible to the classical type of inferiority complex proves almost beyond doubt that the germ of the complex was latent in him from childhood”.
4. “The central idea of [Mannoni’s] book ‘is that the confrontation of ‘civilised’ and ‘primitive’ men creates a special situation – the colonial situation’ – and brings about the emergence of a mass of illusions and misunderstandings that only a psychological analysis and place can define’ ”
5. Fanon says ‘I will state this principle; A given society is racist or it is not… Statements for example, that France is one of the least racist countries in the world are the product of men incapable of straight thinking’.
6. “With regard to the colonial situation. he says: ‘Physically and affectively. I have not wished to be objective. Besides, that would be dishonest: Its not possible to be objective’ “
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7. “What is S. Africa? A boiler into which 13 million blacks are clubbed and penned in by 2.5 million whites. If the poor whites hate the black it is not as Mannoni would have us believe, because ‘racism is the work of petty officials, small traders, and colonials who have toiled much without great success’. No; its because the structure of South Africa is a racist structure”
8. “Mannoni adds: ‘Colonial exploitation is not the same as other forms of exploitation, and colonial racism is different from other kinds of racism’ ”
9. Fanon says: ” When one tries to examine the structure of this or that form of exploitation from an abstract point of view, one simply turns one’s back on the major basic problem, which is that of retoring man to his proper place”.
10. Fanon says: ” I feel I can still hear Cesaire (who said): ‘When i turn on my radio, when I hear that blacks have been lynched in America, I say that we have been lied to Hitler is not dead’. Yes European civilisation and its best representative are responsible for colonial racism”.
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11. “But Francis Jeanson says, every citizen of a nation is responsible for the actions committed in the name of that nation…. I said just above S. Africa has a racist structure. Now I shall go farther and say that Europe has a racist structure. it is plain to see Mannoni has no interest in this problem, for he says”…Be glad that you are French, my fine Negro friends, even if it is a little hard, for your counterparts in America are much worse off than you”
12. “The feeling of inferiority of the colonised is the correlative to the European’s feeling of superiority. Let us have to say it outright: ‘It is the racist who creates his inferior’
13. Earlier, we uncovered in certain of Mannoni’s statement a mistake that is the very least dangerous. In effect, he leaves the Malagasy (and Madagascar by extension) no choice save between inferiority and dependence [but not freedom – my emphasis]
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14. Mannoni believes ‘Wherever Europeans have founded colonies…it can be safely said that their coming was unconsciously expected – even desired by the future subject peoples.
15. “As a psychoanalyst, I should help my patient to become conscious of his unconscious and abandon his attempts at a hallucinatory whitening, but also to act in the direction of change in the social structure
16. “Prospero complex is defined as the sum of those unconscious neurotic tendencies that delineate at the same time the ‘picture’ of the paternalist colonial and the portrait of the racist whose daughter has suffered an imaginary attempted rape at the hands of an inferior being…Prospero assumes an attitude that is well known to Americans in the southern United States. Are they not forever saying that the ni**ers are just waiting for the chance to jump on white women”
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‘I will state this principle; A given society is racist or it is not… Statements for example, that France is one of the least racist countries in the world are the product of men incapable of straight thinking’.
I love this quote and use it all the time in the classroom, whenever somebody says “But really, professor: Brazilian isn’t as racist as the U.S.”
Generally, though, I say “That’s like saying the Atlantic Ocean isn’t as wet as the Pacific”.
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What do you want to bet that few of the “Fanon is so racist” people are going to show up here to comment on this chapter?
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With regard to
“I love this quote and use it all the time in the classroom, whenever somebody says “But really, professor: Brazilian isn’t as racist as the U.S.”
Me too…
I also like many of his quotes in the book
‘Toward the African Revolution, in an essay called ‘Racism & Culture’
Its a pity the google book (excerpts) only contained the opening of that chapter
In fact there are too many to single out but this one stands out, in a similar vain:
“A society has race prejudice or it has not. There are no degrees of prejudice. One cannot say that a given country is racist but that lynchings or extermination camps are not to be found there. The truth is that all that and still other things exist on the horizon”
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A million dollars?
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What do you want to bet that few of the “Fanon is so racist” people are going to show up here to comment on this chapter?
Not if the women don’t get here first mate ha ha ha ha
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Here is another commentary on the same chapter whcih again is much more well rounded.
From The Liberator:
http://weblog.liberatormagazine.com/2010/02/frantz-fanons-black-skin-white-masks-ch.html
What are your thoughts on this analysis of the chapter Thad??
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Fanon goes on, “when one tries to examine the structure of this or that form of exploitation from an abstract point of view, one simply turns one back on the major, basic problem, which is that of restoring man to his proper place”.
I just realized that Fanon was caging from Marx in this sentence.
Seems to me to be a pretty good analysis, though, J: the white man creates his inferior in order to avoid dealing with those things of which he is afraid inside himself.
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I understand what you are suggesting and I think in essence you are right.
Though I am not quite sure how I would define that
‘inferiority’?? Can you provide any analysis??
I would also add that there is another way to couch what you are saying here.
When you study English society on how they treated the poor, the young children, women,you can even add the Irish (let’s hope this does not lead to a hi-jack ha ha ha), Jews etc.
All these mis-treatments and injustices were already present in the society before they went to embark on slavery/slave trade as well as later to colonise the world.
To put it simply there was a transplantation from what was done ‘internally’ and projected on to ‘others’ across the world ‘externally’.
I can remember John Henrik Clarke the historian highlighting this point – but I have not heard anyone else
develop this argument…
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Well, it’s a pretty well-proven maxim in anthropology that “othering” generally begins by projecting upon the Other that which we admire or despise within ourselves.
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Yes indeed!!
You did say:
“…the white man CREATES his INFERIOR in order to avoid dealing with those things of which he is AFRAID inside himself.”
Any idea what this might be??
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Thanks for the links J! Upon perusing the site, I just may pony up and subscribe!
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I just read that Liberator summary. I am sorry but it was dreadful.
Fanon, for example, goes on at great length about how bad French rule was. But that is pretty much left out of the the “much more well rounded” Liberator account. So is the Prospero complex. There is little proof that the writer even READ, much less understood, the last third of the chapter.
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The Liberator account also leaves out the dreams of children and how Mannoni misread them to excuse the terror of French rule and how it was affecting his patients.
J, like the Liberator, also leaves out the terror of French rule and the dreams. Unlike the Liberator he brings up the Prospero complex but I feel his quote did not get to the heart of it.
J does underscore how France was racist and Mannoni tried to look past it. I think my post, though, does make it clear that the French were both racist and Mannoni was blind to it.
J also underscores Fanon’s point that superior-feeling whites leads to inferior-feeling blacks. I tried to make the same point at the end of the post with a different quote of Fanon’s: not as cool but I think it makes the point in a more complete way. Though come to think of it, I should somehow work the shorter Fanon quote into the post.
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Because I have only 500 words I left out the very cool quotes this chapter has, from both Fanon and Cesaire, and I presented the material in a different order. Fanon puts the terror of French rule at the end of the chapter. I put it at the beginning because I think it makes most of his points for him.
Also, unlike Fanon, I am assuming a Black American readership not a white French one. Though, in hindsight, maybe I should have written it for a White American one. That would have been way harder – especially in 500 words – since they share many of the same blindnesses as Mannoni.
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What I found striking about this chapter is how certain racist tropes you see in America also appear in white-ruled Madagascar:
– The Happy Darkie (the dependency complex)
– The Uppity Negro (the inferiority complex)
– “Only lower-class whites are racist”
– Racism is not built into society – it is just a few bad apples
– Blaming the ills of society on the powerless
The Prospero complex was the one shining moment when Mannoni escaped his white racist view of the world, where he tried to look at whites the way others might see them.
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Thanks Abagond
With regard to:
” Because I have only 500 words I left out the very cool quotes this chapter has, from both Fanon and Cesaire, and I presented the material in a different order… and so forth
I also have problems with the Liberator piece but personally I thought it was at least a more accurate representation of the chapter.
If you follow the Liberator piece you can see at least it is a step by step analysis in chronological sequence.
One other advantage of the Liberator chapter
is that it quotes more of Fanon than the ‘White liberal’ (here read hypocrite) Mannoni. You do the opposite by quoting Mannoni with the effect it changes the analysis of the chapter of teh book.
As for the Prospero Complex, it is wrong to say that Fanon agreed with it. In fact it is impssible to agree with it because of what I state at point 16 of my summary:
“Prospero complex is defined as the sum of those unconscious neurotic tendencies that delineate at the same time the ‘picture’ of the paternalist colonial and the portrait of the racist whose daughter has suffered an imaginary attempted rape at the hands of an inferior being…Prospero assumes an attitude that is well known to Americans in the southern United States. Are they not forever saying that the ni**ers are just waiting for the chance to jump on white women”
So in essence the Prospero Complex is in fact all the vain imagination and stereotypes of the colonialist/racist vis-a-vis the ‘victims’ and hence this is why he refers to the U.S. and refers to White women being constantly raped by men as an excuse for lynching.
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And again
Chapter 4
“So-called Dependency Complex of Colonized peoples’
One can get a very brief understanding of the chapter from
the aforesaid title
1. So-called
This refers to the imaginary perception of the colonialist. This is why Mannoni believes the ‘natives’ cannot wait for teh great White man to colonise them point 14 of my summary)
2. Dependency Complex
All colonised people of colour are in fact ‘dependent’ on the White man for their existence in spiritual, material etc . This is point 3 of my summary
And reinforced by the quote by Abagond
“I [ie the Malagasy]start suffering from not being a white man insofar as the white man discriminates against me; turns me into a colonized subject; … tells me I am a parasite in the world … So I will try quite simply to make myself white; in other words, I will force the white man to acknowledge my humanity. But, Monsieur Mannoni will tell us, you can’t, because deep down inside you there is a dependency complex”.
Here Mannoni is saying that the Malagasy is in a contradiction. He is by nature ‘inferior’, if he aspires to be ‘White’ to get rid of this inferiority it cannot be done either. Hence Fanon’s analysis at my summary at point 13
“point 13. Earlier, we uncovered in certain of Mannoni’s statement a mistake that is the very least dangerous. In effect, he leaves the Malagasy (and Madagascar by extension) no choice save between ‘inferiority’ and ‘dependence’ [but not freedom – my emphasis]
What Mannoni is in effect saying that people’s of colour are subservient to Whites. This subserviency is derived from a complex within such people. Any problems like violence, exploitation etc on the colonial landcape is minor because this is not really the wishes of the coloniser. And finally the colonised will always be inferiior and have the complex associated with it. Fanon attempts to repudiate the aforesaid.
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“I [ie the Malagasy]start suffering from not being a white man insofar as the white man discriminates against me; turns me into a colonized subject; … tells me I am a parasite in the world … So I will try quite simply to make myself white; in other words, I will force the white man to acknowledge my humanity. But, Monsieur Mannoni will tell us, you can’t, because deep down inside you there is a dependency complex”.
Wow! Where’s the chorus of commentators screaming that Fanon must be a Malagasy? After all, he uses that same “I” word here, too! 😀
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ha ha ha ha
Snap!!
Do you know that was my very thought too, especially as the way it is quoted.
Too be honest I think the silence is perhaps more ‘instructive’ than if something had been said, if you follow my ironic reasoning he he he
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It is also much clearer from what came before that he is not talking autobiographically. And even if he is speaking autobiographically (and I think he is in part) it is not not quite in the same league as saying he finds Western civilization between the breasts of a white woman.
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I never expected this chapter to get more than 30 comments, but still the silence is deafening. It seems I lost most of the readership with chapter three.
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No, in my opinion. I think what has happened is that many must be ‘shocked’ by Fanon’s politics. Its kind of difficult to repudiate the 16 point analysis which is virtually quote word for word.
There is another thing which needs to be taken on board when reading BSWM, viz. Fanon is writing as a psychiatrist.
Its as if he is talking to other psychiatrist, which he is, as part of his doctoral thesis (ie education), on what he has found in his people by clinical study.
Notwithstanding that in society, it is NOT the psychiatrist that is ill (or suffering neuroses), but the patients who go to visit him for therap.
To put in other words BSWM is a doctoral thesis. Therefore it has to be essentially about ‘others’ and not the psychiatrist per se. the inner working of the minds and so forth
It is this type of false reasoning and thinking (ie not being able to understand what is going on?) is what is creating much of the confusion with Fanon here.
Further, I have had a look at his next chapter in the book
‘The Fact of Blackness’. Personally, I think you are going to have a hard time once again to represent the essence of what that chapter is trying to say.
Personally and I submit this humbly it is very clear that most of the board here do not understand Fanon’s ideas.
I am not referring to the man, or his politics, but simply the reading of a text of words and the storyline in BSWM. And perhaps even more worrying these individuals do not realise it themselves
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Abagond,
I think the problem with the book is the fact not many people actually read it, and, from what I can see, it can be a confusing read. I am not sure why, but it does look like he takes an isolated experience (his own time and place) and try to tame it into a general conclusion about black/white and black/black dynamics (correct me if I’m wrong here). However, what I do think it’s true is that the commenters see Fanon’s book as “general” or “universal”, or at least something that can freely be applied to today’s America.
I’ll read J’s and Thad comments and try to think of a constructive way to contribute.
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@ Mira:
What I said in the introduction to this series:
“He says his observations and conclusions are valid only for the French Antilles (he is from Martinique). And, since he wrote in 1952, what he says might be way out of date by now. But given that my translation into English was done in America in 2008, and given how quickly even good books go out of print, I am going to assume, for now, that what he says applies more broadly than just the French Antilles in the 1950s, that it is useful for blacks – and whites – in America to know now in the 2010s.”
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Like J said, it is important to keep in mind his audience: white French psychiatrists – whose knowledge and education and point of view is markedly different than that of most commenters or, from what I can tell, lurkers. (Though one wonders why Fanon quotes Cesaire to them.)
Second, like Thad said, this book is a book: there is some argument he is laying out chapter by chapter. It is not right to close your mind till he has got to the end and has had his say.
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Abagond,
I know. I do think many people today are able to relate to the things written in the book. Still, I do think the book should be taken only as a starting point for a discussion. People have to understand it’s not written in 2008 in America. Some things are simply not the same.
I have to admit I don’t know what is the same and what is different today, or what can be applied to America in 2010. However, I do believe there are differences.
Also, it looks like not many people actually read the book. Your posts, as useful as they are, are not the same as reading the book. So I don’t think we could really discuss Fanon’s work here. I believe we should stick to the ideas he touched, not the book itself.
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Maybe every one not commenting now is trying to read the book.
Its hard to comment on a book brought in chapter by chapter when only a few people have read the book .
Who wants Thad always coming in stepping on my comments….because he read the book….blaha ha ha
Any chance they made a movie about it? I always relate to visuals more than reading….
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B.R.:
LOL, about waiting for the movie.
Good point: the commentariat will necessarily thin out over time. Also I fear Thad is driving off commenters as well.
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I haven’t been driven off. I come back and read to at least see what is being “commented on”.
“J” – was kind enough to point out to myself and “sista soulha” that it is indeed awkward to comment about a subject when one is not thoroughly familiar with it.
Admittedly, I find myself guilty of jumping on the bandwagon, and making a comment that I should not have. (even though it was a simple one about pride.)
Suffice it to say I haven’t read the book, and therefore choose to read comments here and process the information rather than making unnecessary comments that would detract from the subject.
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Personal;ly, I think that is a bit on hhard on Thad…
Many jump on others here clearly without knowing their subject matter. At least Thad knows what he is talking about and/or can construct a argument, why he believes as he does, irrespective of whether it is from a different perspective or not.
As for reading stuff like Mein kampf, and trying to understand what is going etc, this requires ‘critical thinking’. Most of us simply do not want to do this for a variety of reasons
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I don’t take Thad’s comments personally at all. I enjoy them and appreciate the information I ascertain.
Abagond’s blog has really gotten me interested in reading again. As Thad said, “I’m more interested in reading Fanon now” than I ever would have been had I not came across this blog. I haven’t had the time to do much of anything recently. (short from my comments here)
J – I don’t know why, but I still find myself laughing out loud when I think about reading your first comment about “Sista Souljah”. -classic!
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My comment is based on this post, since I haven’t read the book.
Mannoni calls this a dependency complex.
Did he offer an explanation behind it? Did he explore the dependency complex among non-black people?
A few natives are unhappy because they suffer from an inferiority complex, which makes them want to be the equal of whites.
I don’t think I understand this. “That makes them want to be equal”… Does that mean those “few natives” don’t believe they’re equal? Or Mannoni doesn’t believe they are?
Not all peoples can be colonized: only those who experience the need.
Ah! I see. Forget what I wrote earlier, I got it now. The guy obviously thinks there’s something about black- NOT WHITE people that makes colonization possible and popular.
European civilization and its agents of the highest calibre are not responsible for colonial racism.
Really?
It comes from lower-level whites who blame their unhappy lives on the natives.
Oh, I get it. Lower-level whites are crap, to put it mildly. That’s something interesting. And that’s what I’m talking about the whole time.
While there was colonization and horrible treatment of non-white, especially black people, it didn’t really mean that being white was enough. Maybe in today’s America, but not in European history. No. There was always the class system. Being white wasn’t enough.
When black men with guns appear in children’s dreams at night it is not because of the terror of French rule: no, the guns stand for penises.
Huh?
No, seriously. What’s he talking about?
Prospero complex.
While I agree there could be some truth to this, I don’t think it’s really about whites who “cannot accept others”. Colonialism was Europe’s reality (well, not whole Europe, but many part of it). It wasn’t something that only a few bad men shared.
So I will try quite simply to make myself white; in other words, I will force the white man to acknowledge my humanity.
I can partly understand this mechanism. Everybody wants to be recognized as fully human. As horrible as that may sound to us today, making yourself “white” in order to be recognized as fully human perhaps did make sense to some people. We can argue that it was bad and horrible, but think about it: even today, white is considered “default”. There are still people who don’t realize what whites think might not be the most important thing on Earth. However, there’s the catch- powerful (white) nations do shape other nations’ destiny.
PS-As for the movie, I do hope they’ll find a hot actor to play Fanon. It’s the only logical way to go.
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Mira,
Personally I think Abagond precis creates its own problems.
Here is my analysis:
1. Mannoni calls this a dependency complex.
Did he offer an explanation behind it? Did he explore the dependency complex among non-black people?
A: No, nor would he need to, since ‘dependency’ is only a problem for peple of colour who are eventually colonised.
2. European civilization and its agents of the highest calibre are not responsible for colonial racism.
Really?
It comes from lower-level whites who blame their unhappy lives on the natives.
Oh, I get it. Lower-level whites are crap, to put it mildly. That’s something interesting. And that’s what I’m talking about the whole time.
A: “Indeed, M. Mannoni, you are wrong. For what is the meaning of this sentence: “European civilization and its best representatives are not responsible for colonial racism”?
What does it mean except that colonialism is the business of adventurers and politicians, the ‘best representatives’ remaining well above the battle? But Francis Jeanson says, every citizen of a nation is responsible for the actions committed in the name of that action”.
Q: So I will try quite simply to make myself white; in other words, I will force the white man to acknowledge my humanity.
A: “What becomes of the exceptional case of which Mannoni tell us?? Quite simply, they are the instances in which the educated black man suddenly discovers that he is rejected by a civilization which he has none the less assimilated.
So that the conclusion would come to this: To the extent to which Mannoni’s real typical Malagasy takes on’dependet behaviour’ all is for the best; if however, he forgets his place, if he takes it into his head to be the equal of the European, then the said European is indignant and casts out the upstart – who in such circumstances in this ‘exceptional’, pays for his own rejection of dependence with an inferiority complex…In effort, he leaves the Malagasy no choice save between
‘inferiority’ and ‘dependence…These two solutions excepted, there s no salvation
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As for the dreams, Fanon psychoanalyses them in a classical Freudian style. Personally I do not think it is that important unless you have an interest in psychology perhaps.
As for Prosero Complex, Mannoni is speaking about the Western world and its process of colonisation vis-a-vis
people of colour.
Personally I dread the day when a film would be made. It will be another attempt to co-opt a revolutionary.
As Lenin stated correctly:
“During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.”
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Look at it this way: whatever the social order, most people will accept it and try to get on with their lives as best they can. In Madagascar when people of colour did this Mannoni saw it as a “dependency complex”. They LIKE being ruled by whites. In America it was called the Happy Darkie: see how black people love to sing and dance and laugh!? They are happy with their station.
But there will always be those who cannot accept the way society is. If they are a person of colour in a racist or colonial society they do not like being held to a place less than that of whites. Mannoni says these people have an inferiority complex – they are hung up about being inferior. In America blacks who are like this are called angry, uppity, whining or ungrateful.
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I do not think I was hard on Thad. You might remember that there was more than just J and Thad who had read the book or were reading it along with me. Where are they? But all we have left is Thad and those commenters who pretty much agree with him or are not in a position to disagree with him.
Thad thinks he is all facts and reasons. He is partly that and has some very good thoughts. But he is also an intellectual bully. He is not a nice person to those who disagree with him. No other commenters gets his comments deleted more – and I do not even catch everything. It goes beyond merely tearing their arguments apart like he thinks.
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@ J:
Excellent Lenin quote. Thanks.
@ Mira:
Guns as penises: I believe that is the Freudian dream interpretation – which Mannoni followed despite the fact that the French were ruling Madagascar with black men with guns. Unlike what J says, Fanon did NOT interpret the dreams in Freudian fashion in this case: he said the guns were just what they appeared to be: guns. He says Freud is all well and good but you got to use common sense too.
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You welcome (Lenin quote) and thanks for the correction too, it was Mannoni who interprets them in a Freudian style (but I would have to go and re-read the text to be doubly sure)
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For a very brief moment I thought you was describing someone else on this board Abagond ha ha ha and not Thad himself…
You want to have a guess…or on second thoughts best not he he he he
“I do not think I was hard on Thad. You might remember that there was more than just J and Thad who had read the book or were reading it along with me. Where are they? But all we have left is Thad and those commenters who pretty much agree with him or are not in a position to disagree with him.
Thad thinks he is all facts and reasons. He is partly that and has some very good thoughts. But he is also an intellectual bully. He is not a nice person to those who disagree with him. No other commenters gets his comments deleted more – and I do not even catch everything. It goes beyond merely tearing their arguments apart like he thinks”.
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And there is a third position which I forgot to mention
Fanon hates black women per se
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B. R. now ; I …ah…was…er …kind …of joking….Thad
I got that. However, I also understand that the “stepping on comments” bit is a valid criticism. Which is why we make jokes in the first place, neh?
Again, if people want to take Fanon apart by claiming he has some weird psychological complex, here’s the key: take a good strong look at what he says about WHITE WOMEN’S sexual hang-ups regarding black men in the upcoming chapters of BSWM.
Heheheheheheheheh.
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For sure, Thad, I definitly had to check you and j’s analasys to understand where the author was coming from.
The things you know, you know well…
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[…] blogger abagond and re-posted by Tweedledum and Tweedledee: “white privilege mindset,” “Fanon: The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized,” and “hate crime […]
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“European civilization and its agents of the highest calibre are not responsible for colonial racism. It comes from lower-level whites who blame their unhappy lives on the natives.”
Reminds me of the “only trailer trash rednecks are racist” attitude that a lot of well to do White Americans have.
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[…] (as “Crackraism [sic]- a mindset of hate!”): “white privilege mindset,” “Fanon: The So-Called Dependency Complex of the Colonized,” and “hate crime […]
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“When black men with guns appear in children’s dreams at night it is not because of the terror of French rule: no, the guns stand for penises.”
Oh Psychoanalysis, don’t ever change.
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“European civilization and its agents of the highest calibre are not responsible for colonial racism. It comes from lower-level whites who blame their unhappy lives on the natives.”
= To Kill A Mockingbird
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Fanon was to Whites what Verwoerd was to blacks.
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