Why do so few black American men marry black women? Mainly because there are not enough of them.
About 42% of black American women have never been married. Never. For white women the number is 22%.
For every 100 black women:
- 35 are now married to a black man
- 1 is now married outside the race
- 22 were once married
- 42 were never married
So what is going on with those 42 black men? Where are they? What are they doing? I ran some numbers, mainly using Census numbers for 2004. Here is what I found, listed in order from the least important to the most important (going by the numbers):
- 1 is gay. He will never marry because he only goes with men.
- 2 are married outside the race. Black men marry outside the race at a rate far higher than other men marry into it. This leaves over 200,000 black women without husbands.
- 4 are in prison. Another 10 will be in prison at some point in their lives. Over a half million single black men are in prison. Black men are seven times more likely to be put in prison than white men. But that is another story.
- 4 lack enough education. Unlike with whites, among blacks more women have degrees than do men. That means over a half million black women will be forced to marry down – or out of the race altogether. Either that or never get married. Which is the most likely outcome: few men want to marry a woman with more education and few men of other races are willing to marry a black woman. Among married white men, for example, only 1 in 400 has a black wife. For Asian men it is 1 in 450.
- 13 are too young or not otherwise ready for marriage. The numbers I am using from the Census count anyone 15 years of age or older. So some of these are too young to marry. But others would have married – in the old days, that is, when sex was a big reason for men to get married. These days there is so much sex outside of marriage that that reason is dead and gone. That means many men are no longer in a big rush to get married – if ever.
- 18 are dead. People forget this, but there is a huge oversupply of black women. Huge. Even if every single living black man married a black woman, 18% of black women would still not be married! Throw in interracial marriages and that still leaves 17% of black women without a husband. This is by far the biggest reason for that 42%.
You can throw in 10 divorced and widowed men into the mix. That might sound good, but then along with them come the 22 women who were once married, making matters worse not better. It will be hard for them to remarry, but some will.
White women are affected by the same sort of things, but in each case the numbers are not so bad. Instead of 18 dead, for example, there are only 6. Instead of 4 in prison, only 1 is. And so on. It all adds up making it much worse for blacks than for whites.
See also:
“4 lack lack enough education.”
SORRY, Abagond, I simply HAD to. Way too perfect.
Otherwise, I appreciate the numbers presented here. Makes you think…
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Great!
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Got rid of the “lack lack”. Thanks.
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to me this is a sad topic. i see my male counterparts delay and procrastinate the issue with their black girlsfriends, using all kind of BS too justify their mentality, too expensive, not nessecary , oh god why? and the like. but when i see guys like that with non- black women and the non- black woman wnats to be married they all roll over because they want thier woman to be happy and have what she wants. Men like this i find are bending over for something they consider exotic and somehow more worthy!
ok rant over, just my opinion!
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… but when i see guys like that with non- black women and the non- black woman wnats to be married they all roll over because they want thier woman to be happy and have what she wants. Men like this i find are bending over for something they consider exotic and somehow more worthy.
I agree with Louise. I was at another Forum a few months ago and I wrote about how lately I’ve not only been noticing more and black male-white female inter-racial relationships … but I’ve noticed that a bunch of the white women are fat and sloppy looking. I offended a few people at the other site with this observation but many came thru over the course of the next few days and weeks after I created the thread and said they noticed the same thing !!!
I see all of these sexy, beautiful black women out here and then I see some of these good looking black males with what “looks” like good fashioned trailer trash. Don’t get me wrong. A good number of these women [looks aside] may have lovely personalities, good jobs and may treat these men like kings. Nevertheless I say all of this 2 say that I believe with all of my heart that there are large numbers of black people who are so color struck that White Is Right and everything is secondary. Sad, sad, sad.
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I just want to file my disclaimer here as invariably I may be branded as a race hater or be subject to some other ad hominem attack but here it goes. A mere 2/48 represented are married to someone outside of their race so the myth that men aren’t getting married to black women needs to be erased. Just as trends are moving so that many black women are getting married later or not at all, these numbers should be transferable to men as well. Perhaps, for all the concern we have about black men not marrying black women perhaps it could be also because many black women aren’t as committed to the institution of marriage as is assumed.
It’s unfair to say that their are plenty of fat sloppy white women with black men it’s because on the whole its misleading and not representative enough of a sample. Sure, we have all seen black men who are attractive with ‘ugly fat white women’, but if we are honest with ourselves we have also seen the an attractive black man with an ugly fat black woman or vice versa. Secondly, we kid ourselves when we make comments that marriage should be about committing yourself to the best looking thing you can attract.
Lastly, to be completely honest we are being a lot more idealist in our personal lives than we are with any other part of our lives. In every other part of our lives we are fine with letting the market determine how we live, but the fact of the matter is there are almost just as many trifling black women as their are black men. To be quite frank IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, even with the black girlfriend I have encountered such difficulty anytime I bring up an idea that is different that some guys just aren’t willing to deal with it.
One of the real issues is that black men are more conservative then we think, while many black women are more liberal in their outlook than black men. While many black men are still looking for someone who can cook, etc. Many black women are less prepared to do so as they cling to their different brand of feminism.
Lastly any discussion about men on the downlow these days should be countered with a discussion on how many women are now lesbians for whatever the reason. All too often things may be more than what they seem. The issue of ‘black love’ is wider than we think, but is it really that big a deal if some black people choose not to marry other black folks? Or if they choose just not to get married at all?
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just want to reiterate that i said nothing about non- black women in ir relationships being sloppy or unattractive, what i did want to say is that sometimes i think that if a black man thinks the woman is exotic or he fetishises her i think he is quicker to consent to marry her than he would with a black woman.
sorry if my original response was off topic. It has nothing to do with jealousy or hatred but everything to do with observation, and as i said my personal opinion, not absolute truth but truth as i see it.
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I love this subject!
I blame the struggle for our black men/black women issues. Both sides are trying to climb that ladder with obstacles thrown at us daily. Neither side wants to hear the struggle of the other but both need support. Both don’t trust the other to support them. Then walls build and you start hearing “oh he’s too set in his ways.” Or “she’s to independent.” So both hunt for support or figure out how to deal with it by themselves. Black men/black woman marriage can’t be attactive to under this theory. I bet those successful black on black marriages are built mutual trust and support not walls we put up to pretend we’re stronger than we are. We all need support from each other black people! Otherwise why bother debating about this. 🙂
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While I support marriage as an institution for mutual companionship and raising kids, I know that even if people get married, half of all marriages in America end in divorce anyway.
I think that some black men don’t marry black women because many black folks did not live in 2 parent households. Many black folks have single mothers in their life and no male role model to emulate as husband and father. Some believe marriage is “a white thing”.
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Marriage is important if only because it is the thing that most keeps a father with his children. Not that it always works. Children with a good father in their lives are way less likely to go wrong later in life. So it affects everyone.
http://www.tanyetta.com/2008/07/involved-fathers-are-essential-to.html
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Because black men can!
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I know the title is why so few black men marry black women, but why does it matter? The numbers you have operate under the assumption that black women should marry black men only. I may be biased since I’m a halfie (my pops is black and my mom is white) and i’m dating a halfie (my girl is black and phillipina) but the world is shrinking. Stop worrying about what color the person is and date/marry who you love. Often times people will marry into their same race b/c maybe they have similar experinces/interests associated with their upbringing which may or maynot have to do with their ethnic/racial backgrounds. But thats not always the case.
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I am not operating under the assumption that black men should marry black women. I am operating under the observed fact that most American men do, in fact, marry inside their own race. I know some do marry outside their race, but I am not going to hold my breath and be pie in the sky about it.
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In responding 2 “I Love A Black Woman” who wrote …
“It’s unfair to say that their are plenty of fat sloppy white women with black men it’s because on the whole its misleading and not representative enough of a sample. Sure, we have all seen black men who are attractive with ‘ugly fat white women’, but if we are honest with ourselves we have also seen the an attractive black man with an ugly fat black woman or vice versa. Secondly, we kid ourselves when we make comments that marriage should be about committing yourself to the best looking thing you can attract.”
There is nothing unfair about a statement based upon my own personal observations. Where I live I’ve noticed FAR more Black Males with White Females than vice-versa and I have also noticed a large number of good looking black males with fat, sloppy looking white women. Within the small complex where my mother lives [4 example] there are three or four such examples alone. What I have personally
observed [in malls, restaurants while I am out and about on cases etc] can almost be described as almost overwhelming.
Lastly let us not kid ourselves about the aspect of looks and the fact that within everyone there are certain criteria that exist pertaining 2 what each individual is looking 4. I would hope that people aren’t making their decisions based solely upon looks but it wouldn’t be far fetched at all 2 say that some do base their decisions on looks and not much else.
Just as some make a decision about who they will or won’t allow themselves 2 open up 2 and get 2 know based upon things such as skin color, body shape, size etc. Right or wrong people use all kinds of arbitrary criteria everyday. Lastly … let’s be real. There are black people who are color struck and use the same type of criteria [in judging one another] that white people have been using against us 4 centuries. The Spirit of Willie Lynch lives on …
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1. I think most men are affected by looks, like it or not.
2. It is just a plain fact that in most black and white couples, the man is black. It is not even close.
3. I think we have all seen black men with fat sloppy white women and wondered why that is. It would be surprising if race had nothing to do with it. But, yes, when we see a man with a fat sloppy woman of his own race we do not give it much thought.
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That’s a good topic…colorism
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I’m not sure if someone mentioned this or not, because I didn’t read through all the comments, but…
I’m intrigued that we note how many black men there are not because of their sexuality, but do not do the same for women.
To hear mainstream media tell it (Usher) black women are turning to homosexuality because of the lack of black men. I don’t agree with that at all, but for as many blogs as I see discussing why there are “no good black men” (and please don’t get me wrong, finding a black man out here who isn’t, (take your pick) to marry is hard) no one is addressing that homosexuality amongst black women is real and that for some (EMPHASIS on “some”), it’s not because they were born that way…
Otherwise, these statistics, especially the one about interracial marriages are interesting (I was also intrigued by how it states that black men are marrying outside the race at a rate “far higher” than anyone is marrying into it, except for every 100 black women there is 1 marrying outside the race and for men, there are 2… the rate is not that much higher).
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It is not 2 but 3, but I did not count the third black man because he is cancelled out by the 1 black woman who marries interracially. He is not leaving any black woman without a husband.
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About 1% of American men are exclusively homosexual. I know it is a debatable point. I am going by the 2003 Smith study. I could not find numbers on just black men nationwide, so I am assuming it is about the same. (There seem to be more white gay men, but I am thinking that is because they are more open about it.)
Since there seem to be way more gay men then lesbians, I am assuming that black lesbian women is less than 0.5%, so it would be too small to show up here. But if you can point me to solid numbers, I would appreciate it.
As to bisexuals, they are still presumably in the straight marriage market, so I do not count them out.
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honestly, I just think that most men (reguardless of race) either don’t find black women attractive, or they do find her physically attractive, but unapproachable because of her nature. this is coming from a black woman.
however, in the UK the story is a lot different. lots of white men there actually prefer black women.
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You black women just don’t get it! There are plenty of single black men out here but the problem or I should say one of the biggest problems is that you want the thug cats and pass up the good brotha.
So many black women are giving up the p*ssy like free cheese and wonder why they get disrespected or can’t find a quality man period. Also, you have black men who have some nice looking white women so stop making seem like it’s only fat white chicks to make yourself feel better. The cats you see with those fat white girls are more than likely not quality dudes themselves.
Lastly, ladies black women need an attitude adjustment. So many black women are rude, bossy and have diva complexes and this sh*t is unattractive. Stop listening to what other women say about men and listen to what the men are saying about the women.
2 Fingers
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i always want a black woman to marry for life, but every broad i ever met already had kids. i mean everyone. it doesn’t make since. it’s like one girl has a kid and it speads like a desease threw the female population. i’m 35 never had a chance to get married or have a child. and at this time of my life the more i think about it the less i want to be bothered with these dumb ass broads. black women are too damn fast thats why most are in the position their in now. as a leader of men i see no purpose in marriage! it doesn’t benefit a man. if i was to get married i’d have to much to lose. as i see it women don’t add value to a relationship. and they damn sure don’t stick by they man unless he’s a worthless jail bound thug nigga. thats what these broads really want. someone the dogg em out and treat them like shit! this is what i have seen in my life. they say they want a real man but when God sends them one their still unhappy or have so much baggage they run the real man off. at this time of my life pussy is boring. maybe some female somewhere will read this and do a better job raising her daughter to be a WOMAN! cause all i see is big mouth black girls everywhere
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I agree with another negro, i’m 42 and have never been married or have i had a kid. I always wanted this but it has never happend. The women i meet already have kids and their really screwed up in the head because of the poor choices of men. Most of them come into the relationship expecting it to fail, and it always does. A man doesn’t want to raise another mans kids, he wants his own to teach them his values. i love black women (why? i don’t know, theirs no reason to) if i was to ever get married it would be to a black woman. i am 6’5, athletic and very hansome. the type of BLACK WOMAN i want just doesn’t exist maybe in the next life. like the fellas say they run from hero’s to have babies from zero’s. and if you think about it, it’s funny as hell because these women or broads like another negro says get what they deserve. i was blessed with the opportunity to play professional football with the Giants. I have meet tons of women. These question were always stuck in my head.
1. If i was to get injured and could play ball would she stand by me?
2. If i never had the talent to play this game would she still be hear?
3. If i was a nobody would she be around?
i’m retired now and the older i get the less i care. if God can do with out a woman then maybe i can to.
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who wrote this BULLSHIT? problably a black woman
Why do so few black American men marry black women?
1. because she’s a dumb ass like another negro says!
2. she’s has too many dam kids
3. she’s to fucking fast.
4. she talks too dam much and doesn’t know when to shut the fuck up!
5. she is too dam selfish
6. she spends too much money, on herself of course
7. she won’t work
8. she won’t clean up after herself.
9. she wo’n t cook
I have been married 3 times, I QUIT! dam a black woman and her nappy headed rug rats!
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Just a note: blk man and another negro are coming from the same IP address.
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I’ve made it a recent habit (couple of months back with another of a similar caliber) not to reply to people who make frankly….emotionally dramatic and/or stupid remarks –yes, blkman who claims to be another negro included.
Someone has obviously been hurt, so this post has, as a result, turned into a “Bash Black Women Day” parade.
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You couldn’t answer back to that ‘other poster of a similar caliber’ because your responses were too weak. You’re critical thinking is not strong. Your commentary is very weak and overly simple. So, you’re in the same boat as this weirdo who posts under various aliases.
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mynameismyname…Why? You just couldn’t help yourself huh. You’re far too easily read–talk about real triteness.
Well, since the shoe fits…
I’ll reply to this one, for the sake of your sanity, as it seems to be lost and misplaced (temporarily, I hope).
It’s convenient to hide behind something supposedly being “too weak” when you could not answer any of the questions I challenged to your “points” in spite of some of your “points” being very irrelevant and/or extremely emotionally charged. Then you began acting seriously obtuse, so I had to leave well, or not so well, enough alone.
It’s really remarkable many of the same things I said in the blackracism post, Abagond mentioned in his post on colorism as well. You probably had an issue with me even bringing up that topic in the first place, as some people would prefer to literally sweep sh*t under a rug and pretend that the stench will not soon fill the room, or maybe you’re the type to open a window but leave the sh*t under the rug. SIIK
However, me being me —I’m inclined to keep it real…actually in spite of and because of people like you, so whatever issue you have with me, it’s just that—your issue, I’m sure, just added to a long list of others.
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some commentators are real pitiful, as a black woman, who is decent and upstanding i have to speak to all my sisters in the diaspora. If you want a decent man, kids, marriage and the whole shebang, do not hold out for a mythical black man who may not even exist, just go for a man who wants the same things and respects not only you, your family, but your culture.
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black dude and blk man, y’all need to cut that out and stop assuming that black women want thugs and someone to treat us like crap. that’s not true because not all black women want a man like that. the comments you say wonder why black people as a whole can’t get along and not date outside the race. stop talking to the women that does talk too much or who wants to date a thug and see that there are other black women who are sweet, honest, classy, and educated but the two of you is too ignorant to see that.
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LOL.
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I stumbled onto this site and I have to say I’m quite pleased to find a spot where people can discuss this stuff sensibly.
I’ve read some of these comments and I see a lot of points here with which I agree. And if this has been said before well alright then. While I do believe love is colorblind, I don’t believe a lot of black men even stop to think of why it is exactly they find these women attractive in the first place.
“Black women have attitudes”
-Smells like BS, black men need to be real and remember the history of black people in this hemisphere, no one put black women on a pedestal (not even today sadly), she wasn’t given an easy time and you couldn’t even protect yourselves, forget about protecting her, so don’t be surprised if she doesn’t want to just smile and nod or she wants to get out there and get hers, sadly most men base their masculinity on how much “say” they have and a backbone on a woman is just something they flee from. These diseased and empty rules on how a woman should behave are helping to screw up the world if you ask me.
“Black women are too fat”
-More bull, sorry, obesity is a problem in America, period, not just for black people! Also, explain the many good looking black men with so many overweight, frumpy white women (no offense, I’m sure most of these women are nice people, and though it can be considered cruel it is something that I’ve observed) I doubt those same black men would be caught dead with a black woman who looked like that strutting about town.
“Black women are too loud”
-Really? The women I grew up around and even people I’ve met later in life who are indeed still in my life are not like that. If you’re a man who’s sitting there watching TV and actually believing this stuff then you need to snap out of it. If you’re a man who keeps attracting abrasive women, then the problem is most likely linked to the vibes you give off, birds of a feather man, birds of a feather.
Men, just like women have self esteem issues, we are all human. A lot of black people struggle with inferiority hang-ups and find themselves needing someone who (they’ve been poisoned to think this but will never admit it) is “better” than them to validate them and to generally make them feel worthwhile and even be more acceptable by association.
In order to make someone a slave, you must pretty much “mind rape” them, thus we lost our languages, our cultures and even our names, a person with a sense of self and worth will NOT stay bound physically and would be disastrous for the slaver, that and the period of crushing oppression that went on til saaay about the mid 1960s have programmed us to accept all ideals European(beauty, religion etc) its not as simple as saying black men have been programmed into thinking white women are superior, its that they have been programmed into thinking ANYTHING that isn’t black is superior. (this is part of the reason I don’t really watch TV, all the women are blondes, the black men look like black men but the black women DO NOT look like black women unless they’re overweight and selling some kind of food or household cleaning product) We are basically invisible in the media, and a lot of people these days people try to model their lives this way, as they are often plugged as the ideal way to live.
The fact is white supremacy has standardized certain things and it creates an unhealthy environment for black people, and these days everyone is politically correct but for most, the feelings have NOT changed they just don’t want to appear like close minded hostile people. This invisible hand that tells us what we should be has of course had an effect on even who we choose as mates. When the lynchings stopped, black men left black women behind because the slave mentality prevailed.
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I agree with most of that. Most Americans, black and white, are pretty much brainwashed and look down on anything black, even if they are unwilling to say it out loud.
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Late to the post but better late than never. My father is from the Netherlands (white) and my mother is from Kenya (black). My sisters & I were raised in the U.S. Here are my observations as a mixed race woman:
1) black men and black women have hostile predjudices towards one another – and you can’t blame everything on white people – that’s another issue…
a) black men claim black women are bossy
divas who won’t work or clean but yet
black women have more jobs/degrees
than black men. That is factual &
cannot be argued. Period.
b) black men claim black women “give it
up” too easily yet these same men have
no issue with “hittin’ it” & leaving
illegitimate children everywhere that
they don’t take responsibility for.
Sounds to me like black men are “give
it up” a little too easily themselves.
c) Black women & black men share the
blame for our high illegitimacy rate –
which hovers in the low 70%.
Both genders are quick to blame the
other for the slew of illegitimate
children they each produce.
d) Black men seem to be under the
impression that black women should be
doing all the work while they lord
over the manor while at the same time
black women seem to think that they
deserve to eat bon bons & get their
nails and “hair did” while he does all
the work. This is a vicious cycle of
blame. Take responsibility.
2)Our race has an unequivical addiction to welfare and status which prevents us as a whole from moving forward. When we rely on the governent to take care of us, we won’t rely on ourselves or each other and we’ll never prosper. This is part of the reason for our illegitimacy rates in conjunction with our mistrust of each other. It’s shameful. My African mother says that blacks in America have NO IDEA what it is to suffer. They have no idea what it is to wiped out by thier own race except for drug territory skirmishes. They have no idea what it is like to have an opportunity to come to a country like this where anything is possible. She says that the Africans that come here have much better work ethics, relationships and the like than American blacks. Africans come here for a better life and they put in the hard work to make one for themselves. The one thing we truly lack as a race here stateside is holding ourselves accountable. No one is brain washed black or white to look down on anything black. Blacks have brainwashed themselves because they are so used to someone else taking care of them – because they’re OWED IT. No one anywhere is OWED anything. The opportunity is there to make something of yourself. You have to want to make a marriage work. You have to want to hold yourself accountable for the children you bring into this world.
I have a friend whose cousin always goes on and on about how he’s overlooked for jobs and isn’t given a loan because he’s black. never once bothering to think that he’s not given a loan because he’s got hideous credit because he bought a caddilac on a gremlin budget. He doesn’t get the engineering job because a) he doesn’t have the education required and b) he’s never held down a job for any length of time. White man hasn’t done that to him, he’s done it to himself. I’m getting sick of it.
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Andiswa said:
black men and black women have hostile predjudices towards one another
Your comment proved your point, but maybe not in the way you intended.
Whites are not completely to blame, of course, but then neither are blacks.
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I wouldn’t say blacks no nothing about suffering. Perhaps not this generation, but I’m certain that the generations before mine who were raped and lynched, denied their basic human rights, and shut out of living and working where they wanted simply because of their skin color might know a thing or two. With all due respect to your mother, some Africans and other immigrants seem to look at the worst of black America and don’t take into account and/or are completely ignorant about the history behind their condition.
I won’t deny many of your observations about black male/female relationships. While broadly drawn there is some truth to be found there. But while recognizing the important role that personal responsibility plays and individual choices, we must never ignore history and present societal and cultural forces which also drive behavior. Once upon a time in the history of black America black people had stronger communities and more cohesive family structures. Education was important. Ask yourself what changed. The society changed.
Does this mean people have no agency or personal responsibility? No. I personally feel that our leadership has failed us and those of us who are middle class and/or doing well have failed us. One of the most stable institutions in the black community through the years has been the church. Where are they? Where are our politicians to stand up and say to our young men you need to take responsibility for the lives you create? What I have seen is that when someone in our community tells the truth about our problems they are often shouted down and accused of being racist or airing our dirty laundry, etc.
So responsibility taking needs to happen on both an individual and a global scale within the black community.
Finally, I must heartily disagree with you respecting your brainwashing comment. Blacks have been brainwashed during slavery in the US, during colonization in other parts of the world, to hate themselves. This is how people are subjugated. We have internalized ideas of white superiority and ideas of black inferiority. This is a fact. It is also a fact that discrimination based upon race exists. However, this does not mean that every white person who turns down a black for a job is operating in a racist mode. Race is not always a factor, but it most definitely remains a factor.
Nevertheless, this does not mean a black person should just expect to play the race card and have the world fall into his/her lap. As you mention, no one is owed anything they did not earn. That’s just ignorant and most upright brothers and sisters know they need to be on top of their game.
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I agree with most of what poetess just said. The brainwashing and racism are not just in the imaginations of black people. I wish it were that simple.
Also keep in mind that most Africans and West Indians who come to America are better educated than most black Americans, probably even better than most white Americans. They also grew up in countries where most people are black and that makes a difference too. While the thinking in those countries has not been completely decolonialized, it is a better starting point than what you have in America.
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This is what I’m my mother is always talking about. American blacks always have an excuse as to why they can’t be held accountable. It’s always discriminiation of somesort. Blacks were not the only race subjected to slavery. In fact all races at one point or another have been. All. The only difference is that were the ones still making excuses for ourselves.
Poetess,you said: “I personally feel that our leadership has failed us and those of us who are middle class and/or doing well have failed us.”
How exactly have our middle class and people doing well failed us? Are you expecting a hand out? What is it that you expect them to do other than be examples for people at the bottom to emulate?? Leaders can only lead if others are willing to follow. It is not everyone else’s responsibility to hold our hands and wipe our butts for us.
And where exactly Abagond do you get your information that Africans and West Indians are better educated? Where did you pull that info from? Because according to USAID Africa, primary school enrollment is the lowest in the world. There in a 20+% gap in the literacy rate for women & men in favor of men. The literacy rate for Africa is lowest of all continents. Don’t tell me they’re better educated. They’re not. Don’t take my word for it. Go to the World Factbook and go country by country in Africa and see for yourself. The difference is that Africans don’t have the “I’m owed everything because I’m black” attitude.
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Abagond was referring to the Native Africans and black West Indians in America. West Africans IN AMERICA, in particular, are better educated than anyone else. So, maybe you need to do your homework.
And yes, many black Americans should be held accountable for their own self inflictions but it’s not their faults. When you live in a country that’s always discriminated against you in order to perserve a great racial “ideal” (whiteness), that’s going to affect you indefintely.
No other race has done as much for America (and the Western world, at large) than people of African descent. And no other race has been oppressed more than people of African descent. So, again, do your homework.
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Right, I mean the ones that come to America.
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Andiswa,
I wonder if you read my post. I am not absolving individuals at all from being accountable for their choices, nor is stating the FACT that discrimination does exist represent an excuse for people not to try their best and live up to their potential. I never said that, nor do I believe in that.
What I was saying, and what cannot be denied, whether your mother considers it an excuse or not, is that situation – IN GENERAL – of blacks collectively not being as educated, as wealthy, or as upwardly mobile as whites is owing to a history of slavery, Jim Crow, and past and current discrimination and/or institutionalized racism. As I said, this is not an excuse for lazy black people to sit back and wait for a hand out. It is what it is.
I would say that it is a rallying cry for those who are more fortunate in the community to not only serve as an example, but to mentor young people, and otherwise use their talents and resources to help their people help themselves.
W.E.B. DuBois expressed this same sentiment in the last century when he wrote that “The Negro race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men.”
Additionally, what Abagond said was that Africans and West Indians who immigrate to the states are generally better educated, on the whole, than most African Americans.
I agree with mynameismyname. You and your mother should do your homework. That’s what I meant by immigrant blacks putting down native US blacks without understanding our history.
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I do not know about Africans, but I do know that some West Indians like to think they are better than black Americans and so they buy into all this stuff that white people say about blacks, just the kind of things that Andiswa is saying. It is all a bit sad because whites think the same thing about them too (because, you know, all black people are alike) or, even worse, they say “you are not like the others”.
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From Stuff White People Do:
“Africans are the most educated immigrant population in the United States, with 49% holding college degrees—a larger percentage than Asian immigrants, American-born whites, and American born blacks. 86.4% hold high school degrees or more, while only 78.9% of the “model minority” Asian immigrants do. Children of African immigrants also go on to achieve higher levels of education as compared with the rest of the population.”
From http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/05/fail-to-distinguish-african-immigration.html
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Does anyone else find it “funny” that it’s rarely publicized that black Africans are the most educated immigrant group in the States? All while, the whole “East/South Asian model minority” one is persistent in the public’s consciousness?
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It is no accident. The model minority is a stereotype. Facts and examples that fit a stereotype are remembered, those that go against it are thrown out and forgotten as meaningless.
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I listen to this ridiculous statement that many white men are simply not interested in black women and they think white women are more prettier.
First, if white women were prettier, why do they do so much to look like a black woman: bronzers and tans to get that golden brown look that comes naturally for many black women.
Second, why do they get collagen injections in their lips to make them fuller.
Third, why are they getting butt implants to round out their unattractive, sqaure-shaped flat butts.
Fourth, why do they wear padded panties to give their straight, masculine hips those round shapely hips and asses like black women?
The only thing black women mimick white women on is the straight hair, and even that is dying out, because most black women have African braids and hairstyles.
I find it is black women who do not want to date out of the race. They just don’t find white skin and white men sexy. Black women are loyal to black men to a fault. I am a black woman and I know that black women simply are not attracted to white men and I’m one of them. Sistas just can’t get into white skin. Yet, it is the white skin that often draws black men to white women. A white man once told me that it is true white men are attracted to black women, but because of societal pressures, they just don’t admit it.
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Um, Tawny Princess, could you please speak for yourself? There are many Black women (like me) who are attracted to and in relationships with White men..
I hate when other people try to speak for a WHOLE group of people. I mean, seriously..
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I love the way a black womens skin has a golden glow, and i think no one should try to confirm to anothers ideal of beauty…
However – I am a white women and I do NOT tan my skin – there is nothing wrong with light skin – its no better than dark skin – just different. and I do not have square boyish hips, I am full and curvy with an hour glass shape. I am scottish and german and if you doubt that we are naturally curvy just look at the the st. paulys girl image…
why do you have to put down all white women to uplift black women. Black women dont need to put white women down to be beautiful. they simiply are…if you make fun of one group to uplift another…you accomplish nothing
Also – i have BW who are friends who are naturally tall and slendor with almost no back side…they are beautiful as well. to say all BWs have X or all WWs dont have it is not a fair statement.
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A white man once told me that it is true white men are attracted to black women, but because of societal pressures, they just don’t admit it.
Well I’m a white male (American, that’s an important clarification..) and almost every white guy I’ve known who had been interested in dating black women did so. I hate to say it, but I don’t think there’s a large number of white guys (in the US) who want to date black women, but are waiting in the wings until they feel society will accept them doing so. The reality is, in my experience (and it’s backed up by marriage statistics..) that the number one preference for white guys who date outside of their own race is Asian women. I’ve known a bunch of white guys who prefer Asian women over white women. I’ve known one white American guy who preferred black women to white women. (and eventually married a black Cubana..) On the other hand I can think of 4 or 5 white European guys I’ve known who definitely preferred black women to white women. Of course there are American white guys who seem to be interoperable with any race and sometimes they end up marrying black women.
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Second, why do they get collagen injections in their lips to make them fuller.
Third, why are they getting butt implants to round out their unattractive, sqaure-shaped flat butts.
Personally, I’ve never known any white woman who has had collagen injections or butt implants. I do know of a few who had breast implants (another bad idea.) I am sure there are models who have had backside surgery or collagen injections but for the vast majority of the populace this is unusual. As Dedabets pointed out there is a wide variety of shapes with white women. (as well for black women..) For that matter, in terms of looks a woman with a flat butt is not a deal breaker for me. To each their own.
Baby got back the original:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1r7qc_sir-mix-a-lotbaby-got-back_music
Baby got back, the very white version:
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okay – i am rolling on the floor with that.
as a vetren of a few G&S plays I think they would have loved that. their plays were full of not so subtle ideas that were pretty racy in their day.
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It’s sad that “race”, a purely social construction, plays such a major factor in who Americans decide to give their hearts to. It’s amazing. It proves that everything in America is structured by race; just as this country was.
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as an aside – I find the photo at the top very moving and beautiful…excellent choice
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Yeah, every white woman and her momma claims to be curvy. A curvy white woman is a rarity. If you just look in magazines and other forms of entertainment, where “white people as usual are declaring themselves the most beautiful,” and they’re doing so-called bikini bodies. It’s a joke. The white woman are pale, with no curves. No round hips like black women. No round butts like black women. No small, tappering waistlines. Just google image janet jackson, toni braxton, beyonce, and mya; then, google any white chick you want “any,” and while the black women are bursting with curves, with the white girls you’d need a magnafying class and a telescope to find their curves.
My friends and I crack ourselves up, male and female, and are in shock at what white people call “curvy.”
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interesting perspective tawny
– you can not take what modern day media displays as the white cultures idea of beauty and actually think all white women look that way. The mainstream media glorifies the minority of women – not the majority. Media does not respresent beautiful black women accurately – why would it represent all beautiful white women (or any other race for that matter). Take a step back a few years and you will see many many curvy white women with soft round hips and tappering waistlines.
Jayne mansfield and Sophia Loren are just off the top of my head – there were many more – you can not tell me that they didnt have curves.
I have never said that white people are the most beautiful. I love and find beauty in variety. I am saying that just because the white women in the media lack curves does not mean that all white women do.
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TawnyPrincess said:
If you just look in magazines and other forms of entertainment, where “white people as usual are declaring themselves the most beautiful,” and they’re doing so-called bikini bodies. It’s a joke.
I agree. I do not get those bikini shots at all, like the kind you see in Anglo-American Maxim.
Dedabets is right about the old days: from like 1950 to 1980 white Americans preferred much shapelier women.
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i dont get those bikini shots either – those bodies are for showing off clothes – not bodies…more curves and no one would pay attention to the clothes
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I am a white guy and i am glad black women dont like white men. I find black women to be ugly and not attractive at all (other than a few). White women are way better looking than black women and so are asians. IMO black women are the ugliest of all women.
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About the topic, the funny thing is, in Europe(The US is seen as a country where black men date and marry black women a lot) even I always thought when it comes to black people whatever the country the issues are most of time the same, and for some countries in EU it will be more Why black women don t want to get married with a black men but this is another question.
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The commenter above (nohubes) is an excellent example of typical ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER. He can’t state his racial preferences in women without launching into an uncalled for OBNOXIOUS, RACIST attack on the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY of BW. It is this type of DELUSIONAL ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER who thinks that he speaks for ALL WM on the planet when it comes to how they view BW.
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BOTTOM LINE…BLACK MEN ARE BRAIN WASHED!! THEY OFTEN FEEL LIKE THE VICTIM OF SOME “ANGRY BLACK WOMAN” (HAHAHA). BLACK MEN JUST LIKE WOMEN OF ALL COLORS ARE BRAIN WASHED BY WHITE AMERICAN BEAUTY STANDARDS. I LIVE IN SCOTTSDALE AZ AND I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND HOW MANY BLACK COUPLES THAT I HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST 7 YEARS. TO BE HONEST I HAVE DROPPED BLACK MEN AS AN OPTION BECAUSE OF WHAT I HAVE SEEN. I MUST NOTE THAT I AM A NURSING STUDENT AND I WORK AS AN LMT. I WORKOUT, MENTOR, READ, HIKE, DO YOGA AND LOVE ROCK MUSIC. I DRIVE A NICE CAR AND LIVE IN A SAFE COMMUNITY. I DON’T DRINK SMOKE OR EAT MEAT. I AM NOT MARRIED SO NO CHILDEN HERE. I ROCK MY NATURAL HAIR WITH CONFIDENCE. I HAVE MANY MEN OF ALL COLORS WANTING TO DATE ME. SO blk man and nobles THANK YOU FOR ENCOURAGING ME TO BE A BETTER WOMAN. THAT’S WHAT YOU HATERS DO FOR ME. blk man… SELF HATERED IS NOT HEALTHY GET SOME HELP. IF BROTHERS DUG DEEPER WITHIN THEMSELVES THEY WOULD ADMIT THAT I AM RIGHT. IT CRACKS ME UP WHEN A BROTHER AND HIS WHITE LADY WALK PAST ME AND HE CANT TAKE HIS EYES OFF OF ME!! HOW SAD AND DISRESPECTFUL TO HER!!! HE KNOWS WHAT HE WANTS BUT KNOW THAT HE WOULD HAVE TO STEP HIS GAME UP TO GET A WOMAN LIKE ME. HOW SAD!!!! SO THIS EXCUSE OF “THERE ARE NO FIT, EDUCATED, CLEAN, HAPPY AND CHILDLESS BLACK WOMEN OUT THERE” IS BULLS%*T. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS. I AM HAPPY THAT I AM OPEN TO THEM!
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Jadeaja, I agree with you 150%. Like you I am slim, a vegetarian, educated and accomplished. I have an attractive face and my own natural god-given hair. I’ve been told by black men I am pretty but “too dark.”
I stopped worrying about what colorstruck fools thought a long time ago. Currently I am engaged to be married to a white man who appreciates my natural beauty.
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in my opinion, the number of unmarried/single-mother black women is one of the largest underlying problems in black america. I say this because most of the social problems among blacks are traced to the men (crime, drugs, violence) and I think a major cause is a lack of a father for boys growing up. this is not to say women can’t raise a boy on their own, but its important for boys to have a strong male figure for discipline and to look up to as a role model. not to mention the financial help. a lot of the time boys aren’t intimidated by thier mother’s discipline as much as a father.
without a father (biological or not), it’s just an endless cycle: the boy grows up, drops out of school, impregnates a girl, abandons her, joins a gang, goes to jail.
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Also, it seems like girls can handle being without a father better than boys. It seems to me like black women have progressed much more than black men in recent years: you see way more black women than men at universities, living in better neighbourhoods, with higher level jobs. I don’t think the situation for black men has improved at all.
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When all the upstanding black women who got that education and a good job start marrying outside en masse, I wonder what will happen then?
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I am black woman that was married to an Hispanic. We produced two beautiful girls who have made it clear to me that they are not attracted to black men and will only date white men. My brother who is black only dates and has been married to white women. His son is now dating a white girl. The pressure is on the white male to marry within his race, even if he is attracted to a black woman. I find it interesting that the majority of black athletes and black actors only marry or date white women. If you check out the Tyler Perry movies all the handsome men in the movies end up with black women, but would never date them in real life. If Perry is trying to send a message, the brothers aren’t getting it.
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Thank you, Lynette.
I was going to respond to #67’s head-scratching comment but I decided against it.
Idris Elba is another TP “starring lead” and he’s a known champion of black women.
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I honestly don’t know what the deal is really, as I only have anecdotal evidence on which to rely. But it seems to me that Black men don’t marry black women for several reasons
1) They want the beauty standard or close to it (asian, latina, biracial)
2) They find black women emasculating
3) Black women make it easy for them not to marry them (disrespecting themselves by having sex too soon, accepting less than marriage, having children out of wedlock)
And of course, when a woman is single and has a gang of young ones, men are reluctant to date you let alone marry you
Anyone agree, disagree?
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Lynette,
Women love the Idris! I’m not mad though.
Poetess,
I think Aba’s reasoning above is pretty potent. Plus, one can not overlook that black women in the U.S. outnumber black men quite a bit.
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i hope my life NEVER gets sad enough where i have to date a black woman. i would only marry or date a black woman, if my life was messed i went to jail and came home, and this is all i was stuck with.
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@ Ugly words
What makes you think any woman would want to be with you in the first place? Your life is sad.
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Thanks Kat
So glad someone said it. lol
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Harsh Words
I hope no black woman is ever STUPID enough to hook up with you.
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Harsh Words:
Do you consider yourself a racist?
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Harsh Words:
Not to bust your bubble or anything, but I doubt any black woman in her right mind would want you even now, not once she caught on to how you feel about them.
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Replying to : SCGirl
it is true that there are alot of men black , white , native american & so on that I Feel do want A Black woman but due to Black womens Nature , Ghetto , Been loud , & Not contributing to the money he works for as well as them always wanting to Aurgue , & They want to be both the Man & Woman in the relationship this do not fit in with any relationship no matter what race he maybe cause what man want to come home to a woman he has to aurgue with then on top shes not making him feel like a king & is contributing little to nothing financially . this is the difference between white women & black .
i’m half black , white & native american i hangout with mostly all white girls & i do see a huge difference in how a black woman treats a black man vs how white women treat them .
& i’ve learned not to be so aggressive like most black women are & i found out that black women can get any black man she wants only if she stops with the aggressiveness . anger , ghetto type kinda nature & be more understanding instead of putting up blocks between her & a real good black man .
not saying black woman should act more white , but it would help if they kinda take tips from white women on treating their black men cause thats why i hangout with white girls is so to learn their way of how they get black men.
i found out that most black men who are w/white chicks do want to be with their black queens but dut to black womens attitudes they tend to stray away to women that they can become more domenit toward & women who’ll give them less of a challenge in a relationship.
so i would say to all black woman out there if you can’t beat them join them get around alot of white women who are dating black men & get tips & use them . i call it getting black men back tricks .
hell instead of getting mad at the white women for so-call taking your men , hell learn what their doing to get them in the first place & use it to score black men.
cause in reality most black men who date white women are only dating them due them not finding that black woman he wants .
& most black women i know aren’t willing to become passive , & Submissive to their partners at all because they think if they do they’re bow downing to him .
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kanzaz22,
I took it one step further. I’m engaged to a white man. LOL.
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There are women with “agressive/bad attitudes” in EVERY RACE and there are women with “nice/easygoing” attitudes in EVERY RACE.
I hate to see NEGATIVE ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES being generalized to ALL BW. This RACIST practice has been going on for hundreds of years and it NEEDS TO STOP.
If BM REALLY wants to marry a “nice, easygoing” BW, he CAN find them because they DO exist.
EVERYONE needs to STOP spreading ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of ALL BW.
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Re: To laromana
it may be racist , But its the reality most black women even the nice ones aren’t willing to Summit to any man.
You may look at it as been Ignorent Or Racist but can you tell us how many BW’s are Submissive & Passive in A relationship , then come back & repost .
Cause 98% of BW’s want to wear both The pants & Dress in their Relationship & many want to argue & shit & I’ve seen this with my own eyes & ears & seen & hearing it isn’t been Racist Its telling the damn truth.
Yeah he”Black men ” Could go out & get A Black Woman , But He don’t have to if The white chick is giving him what he wants .
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Why should a black woman be submissive and passive in order to be considered worthy of a man’s attention? Even if she is “one of the nice ones” No one is saying that it’s tremendously attractive to have an over bearing woman, whether she be black or any other ethnicity. But for a woman to have to be submissive in order to win a man seems beyond ridiculous.
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Saying that ALL BW fit ANY NEGATIVE STEREOTYPE THAT COULD APPLY TO ANY WOMEN OF ANY RACE IS IGNORANT AND RACIST.
NO ONE has a right to GENERALIZE NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES TO BW just to JUSTIFY MOST BM’S preference for WW/NON-BW.
BW, like women of ANY RACE, are INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS with UNIQUE personalities (both positive and negative like ANY OTHER RACE of women).
BW DESERVE to be LOVED,RESPECTED, and HONORED by ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE who chooses to be in a relationship with them.
That’s the POINT I’m making.
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& Thats why? Black men will continue dating White Women ……..lol
like A White guy said I’ve yet to meet A Black woman who’s not Domineering Or Dominet in A relationship .
& Yes Black women can go & Date any race of the rainbow , but what men want them if he has to put up with A loud mouth ass black woman who he has to put up with all the time.
& Not All Women are like Black Women thats why Black men Date Out side Black Women .
you all are just trying to justify the fact that black women are lazy,ghetto, loud & don’t want to submit to any man shes with.
call it racist all you want but the fact is black men do not want to put up with loud ghetto ass black women any more he has choices now ………lol
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You just don’t get it do ya Kanzaz? And you probably never will. but no loss for black women of the world…you would never be considered an asset to a black woman or a feather in a black woman’s cap anyway. movin right along….
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RE: AO
No I get it , I get that Black women blame black men for been single instead of looking at themselves for awhile & see what they need to change Or edit from themselves , i’m not saying they need to totally change , but like before who wants a woman who wants to be both the man & woman of their relatioships .
Another thing is many white women see how black women are & they use that to get Black men telling him what he wants to hear & doing what he wants them to do & Black women are not looking at it like this When A Black woman tells A black brotha how low he is , Never supporting him , dragging him down , That white woman is standing in line Watching & waiting for her Chance at getting him & shit .
so no many black sistaz fail to realise Shes leaving her back door open to White chicks by doing black men wrong because she dn’t want to summit to him .
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The WHOLE WORLD can see that MOST ANTI-BW BM are SELF HATING, IGNORANT, DBR, RACIST/HATERS and the ONLY RACE of men in the WORLD who think it’s NORMAL/GOOD to TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of the women who MOST RESEMBLE their MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, and SISTERS by promoting LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES about them. If it wasn’t for a BW DECIDING TO BIRTH/RAISE THEM, these ANTI-BW BM WOULDN’T EVEN EXIST.
INTELLIGENT BW have long known that they DON’T NEED these DUMB, USELESS, ANTI-BW BM and they certainly don’t NEED to listen to ANY of their LIES about WHO DOES/DOESN’T LOVE/WANT BW.
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Just had a reality check this weekend.
I went to my cousin’s wedding and almost all of the guests were black. Not a single BM showed up with a WW (although a few BW, myself included, showed up with WM) and there had to have been at least 50 quality black men there. Doctors, lawyers, professional football players, military officers, engineers, scientists, etc. (yeah, my relatives are like that.) All happily married to black women.
Sat across from a gorgeous black electrical engineer and his lovely dark-skinned wife. 2 kids and 9 years.
Not all successful black men want to marry WW… The vast majority don’t.
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it seems, like the real reasons, besides statistics, is fueled in stereotypes about one another.
to me, it takes two to tango. when you rag on black women for being moms, and being “loose and fast”…you can apply the fact that black men bail on pregnant women.
one can go into a whole list of stereotypes about black women and black men.
but i think what this all comes down to, is the fact that, people prefer to blame it on the other.
i mean, if a black dude had a series of unsuccessful relationships with black women, i would say he is most likely the problem, its just easier to blame it on the women, especially when they are the women often most looked down on, and most stereotyped.
i think black women get a bad rep, because throughout history and even today, they have to fight two battles…being black in america…and being a female in america…they had to become stronger, to better themselves…but society uses that against them.
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Well, B&G, you get to see in your eyes what posters like me and Lynette were saying all along.
Most of the “successful” blacks I know and observe are married to each other. Happily. If you go by the media or stereotypes, you’d have a different view.
Yet reality tells a different story.
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I agree.
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Yeah, I was getting a bit too far into Internet-world. Nice to have a dose of reality.
Actually, I know a LOT of black men and the only ones who are married to WW are the ones who were stationed in Germany for a long time.
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This entire post saddens me =/ I know that it’s true and I’ve been dealing with such a fear of never getting married ever since I started planning my career, but this just kills any hopes I had of having a family.
I fit all the characteristics that work against me. I’m a 2nd generation Nigerian female at one the America’s best colleges. I plan on becoming a physician and sub-specializing in anesthesiology. I currently have a 4.0 GPA and can graduate in 3 years if I choose to.
But what’s the point? Such success is meaningless if it will result in a life of complete solitude. I and several other females of color would rather be stupid than intelligent if it ment they wouldn’t grow old and lonely =/
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^^^Nionio–keep doing you. Do not in any way seep into a self-defeatist attitude especially when your career is bright and you have a lot of potential. Your future trajectory as a highly sought after physician in anesthesiology—your stock is going to go through the stratosphere. You should have no problems eventually securing a marriage and children for your future.
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most black men still marry black women. sure many sleep with & date white women but not marry. evan in the u.k where white people make up 90% of the population around 50% of black caribbean & 80% black african men are married to black women. if most preffered white women that wouldn’t be the case. i’m mixed race and know that interracial marriages exist but i’m just stating a fact that they are not as common as people think.
mixed race people marry white people more so than black people. but as for me there is no telling just depends who i fall in love with & treats me right.
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Marrying down? I am so tired of that bullsh#t line. It is an excuse. Black women are there own obstacle when it comes to being with a good man. Most of you have met or know a good man who just doesn’t do it for you. There is something on your list of wants that he does not have. Marrying down? Because you have a formal education at a 4 year university you think that you are more intelligent? Do some of you have any idea how many good black men are pass over daily because they do not have degree, are not 6ft or taller, do not drive a fancy car or do not have a white collar (so called professional) job? The average truck driver makes more than the average teacher. The average sanitation worker makes more than most of the women who ignore him. It’s not that educated women have to date down. They have to stop thinking they are a better class of people. I would never tell a woman to date someone who mistreats her or does not value her. Find a person you can connect with on many levels. You will be stronger in some areas and he will be stronger in some areas. If you are basing your relation on a degree your are lost. And yes I have a degree, but I do not mention that when I meet women. I am not interested in a woman who does not look at the soul of a man first and foremost.
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Good comment.
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If you are submissive and passive get used to being run over. I am a black woman and I have a few white female friends who date black men. Most of their situations: they are supportive and more submissive to their men yes, but they are not respected. I’m sorry but if the clubs close at 2AM and he doesn’t come home until midmorning the next day and you dont say not a word – are you “supportive” of your man or just weak as hell?
It seems to me that quite a few black men want a woman who will put up with whatever they do without saying a word. There are plenty of black women that are not loud, ghetto, hoodrattish or have multiple out of wedlock children so stop acting like that negative stereotype speaks for us all. If you believe that then Willie Lynch and the media has done its job.
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^^
You know what’s funny?
In the U.S., black American women are given more “leg room” to outperform their male counterparts economically, professionally and even interpersonally. Yet, it seems that their male counterparts seem to criticize and “turn their nose up” at them more often. Ironic.
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I believe the black women should examine herself. Release any past hurt, pain , and baggage.Only thing she can move forward. I am a black women. I do not see being submmisive and passive will cause a man to disrespect you. In fact you really need to understand what it means to submit. It doesn’t mean to be a doormat, it means to yield to come up under the leadership of that Man. You cant submit to any and everybody. Thats why its important to be in the Word of God and study for your own understanding of what this means. From my experience submission is hot you get it all from the brother when you understand it and you apply it in your relationship. Learn to know when not to speak, honor, respect, and be that undercover freak for your man. We need to learn to take care of ourselves lose some of that weighT, see and treat our men as Kings. You reap what you sow.. Just keeping it real! Love all my sisters. Enjoy your Journey….
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I’ll be honest, you don’t sound very much like a woman at all, you sound like a bible thumping man who believes patriarchy is and should be somehow the natural order of things and has bought into “all that’s wrong with black women” mumbo jumbo. Why should a woman come under the “leadership” of her man? There cannot be any equality in that. Look up the definition of passive and submissive, “lady”.
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Do you guys really think its just the black women’s fault that black men date out??? I don’t think that black women are messed up like some of these black men and hating blk women claim.
I truly believe black men make excuses to date outside the race.
I am young, educated, attractive, people tell me im cute. And people who have met me think im sweet. During my single life, Why is it that as a young black women, who is NOT ghetto, i don’t have kids, nor am I over weight, Why do/did i only get approached by thug types, and guys who have nothing, or old perverts.
(How do i know these guys are thugs, pervs, and bums, they have nothing, because you see them in the middle of the day not working, no car,loitering, not even in school or either they are 45-60 years old pervert old enough to be my grandad)
These “good black men” DO NOT APPROACH ME. They are not checking for “good black women” cause they don’t want black women.
They are stereotyping EVERY black women> I personally do not think as a whole black men as of 2009 are really attracted to black women. I think that the media is pushing biracial and non-blk women as beauty. During the 70-90s you would see darkskin/chocolate women in the media in commercials and music videos. Now you don’t even seen them. They replaced black women with asian and hispanic and dark haired white women.
In my single days, I felt like this I have myself together as a young black women, and these “good black men” have NO excuse for saying there are no decent black women. Or even thinking black women don’t want them. Cause i do, i felt its a win lose situation for young intelligent black women WHO WANTS BLACK MEN and have NO FETISH or desire for white/asian/hispanic women.
if you want a decent blk man its very hard. If you want to find one that is PRO-BLACK it is like finding rare jewel. A man who wants to ONLY marry black women. I have friends of other race i have no jealousy or animosity towards other race of women i have always had different race of friends that is me [b](I had to add that cause blk men would be saying im jealous of non-blk women and Im not)[/b],
but i feel like i as a blk women should not have to compete for the love of a black man w/ other races, when i have always loved blk men, even when my own blk father abandoned my family. I still have love for blk men. And im not making excuses NOT to date blk men, even though i don’t have any decent blk men in my family.
[b]On a happier note lololol [/b]
I am SOOOOOO very thankful i was able to find my pro-black man who actually loves black women. And has no kind of fetish for white/asian/hispanic women. He genuinely values black women and knows their worth. I wish more black men were like this, because i believe the black race would be stronger. Im so thankful i will be getting married next year im so excited, i wish all the decent blk men and women could find each other cause its difficult. And its almost difficult to find A black man who is pro-blk like malcom X!!! lololol Im just so pro-blk i could not get along with a black man who has liberal views, our ideas would bump to much.
[b]last note to black men[/b]
Its up to the man to value his women. We can’t expect society to value or celebrate black beauty in black women, bm and bw have to do that. Black women are the backbone in the blk community, if you continue on this path blk women will not trust black men.
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La romana, Miz mee and the other pro-Black female sistas here are speaking the PLAIN TRUTH. black men through their own actions, have show that they DO NOT LOVE, SUPPORT, PROTECT, or RESPECT Black women. PERIOD, END OF STORY. And to the blog owner, I’m suprised at you. Why didn’t you stand up for sistas?
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I am a Black woman sick of the media implying that the darker skin is bottom of the pile for looks. I class myself as big, black and beautiful. unlike a lot of of black men and woman. I love myself and feel completley confident within my skin. start loving yourself, all people are beautiful in their own way. remember assertive black woman are deemed aggressive. my friends are black and white, you get out of life what you put in. if black guys want to date white woman so what. some white woman are stunning, so are Black and Asian woman. lifes to short to worry what men want. I believe most woman would agree with that. Men date who you want. woman date who you want without making unkind references to a large number of sad inadequate black and white men who cant care for themselves nevermind a household that bills need paying. most woman are completley independent. please ask white woman about white men, they will enlighten you of how crap some of them are, and some pefer to date black men because of this.
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Why so few Black men marry Black women?
Because much like education, marriage has become a low priority. There is no reason that there should be so many out of wedlock children. Once we lowered our values everything else went down. Once we allowed Margaret Sanger to put abortion clinics in our communites we devalued our people. Once we started thinking that every Black man in prison is there because he is at fault not because many have drugs planted on them by racist White cops, we started to devalue our men. Ever sense the 1960’s the Black community has done nothing but struggle and underachieve. Although we are a powerful group we don’t recognize it and we do not organize as such. It’s so chaotic and confusing.
We have less than 1% inventors that we had 40 years ago. Why? What happened? Black America has tried so hard to receive the approval of White America that it’s hurting the Black communities. Our communities are failing so why are we surprised that the marriage rates are low. So many men in jail, so few men attend AND GRADUATE from college, many making babies and not supporting the mother and family. There use to be a time when men married the mother of his child regardless of their relationship situation.
Let us not forget the huge drug and alcohol problems in the Black communities which leads to many men and women in prison.
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Some would say that LBJ is responsible with his war on poverty. The only way poorer blacks could get welfare money was to remain unwed so that began the downward spiral. Then the so-called sexual revolution happened, which in my opinion was only a revolution that allowed men to use women and walk away from their responsibilities. Liberal divorce law came along to finish the job. In the wake of this illegitimate child bearing, divorce became to be stigmitized less and here we are.
There is no longer any social pressure to bear on men to either marry with sex so readily available without committment – or to stay with their families once they are married. This is mot just a black problem, it’s a societal problem.
I am not a bible thumper or conservative person, but I do believe that casual sex is a mistake. Besides, what’s so casual about it? Particularly for a female. Our risk is far greater not only with respect to pregnancy, but getting a disease. And women are more meotionally vulnerable becuase we often have a difficult time separating love from sex. Not that I think they should be separated.
I know a lot of black men hooked up with white women that aren’t marrying them either. So another pertinent question might be, why do so few black men marry at all?
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I date a white woman. I don’t date her because she is prettier,smarter or anthing else “more” than a black woman. She is strong and not “easy to control”. I date her because we are compatible.I have dated black women only to be told that I was “too nice”.I have three black lady friends whom have known me for many years. Two of these ladies recommended that I try dating white women because I was too laid back for black women and that this was the problem I was having. Another told me that I was not “gruff” enough.She told me that any black woman I married would cheat on me because I was not gruff enough. She told me that black women wanted a man to tell them to “get your a.. in the kitchen and fix me something to eat”. She went on to say that when a black man wants sex and a black woman is not in the mood, a black woman wants her man to “take it anyway”. Black women wants her man to “roll his eyes” at her sometime,she went on to say. I refuse to act like that.I have sense enough to know that she was lying. Maybe some women do like a man to act in such a way. I can be myself without trying to play some role. Remember that it was black woman who encourage me and even tried to set me up with white women.
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poetess said:
“Some would say that LBJ is responsible with his war on poverty. The only way poorer blacks could get welfare money was to remain unwed so that began the downward spiral. Then the so-called sexual revolution happened, which in my opinion was only a revolution that allowed men to use women and walk away from their responsibilities. Liberal divorce law came along to finish the job. In the wake of this illegitimate child bearing, divorce became to be stigmitized less and here we are.”
Damn straight! Personally I blame feminism! Like with many of the “isms” they work in theory but in practice they always mess things up!
poetess said:
“There is no longer any social pressure to bear on men to either marry with sex so readily available without committment – or to stay with their families once they are married. This is mot just a black problem, it’s a societal problem.”
That’s so true!
poetess said:
“I am not a bible thumper or conservative person, but I do believe that casual sex is a mistake. Besides, what’s so casual about it? Particularly for a female. Our risk is far greater not only with respect to pregnancy, but getting a disease. And women are more meotionally vulnerable becuase we often have a difficult time separating love from sex. Not that I think they should be separated.”
Again, all too true! Thank god I’m a man! Sex is just sex to me! 🙂
poetess said:
“I know a lot of black men hooked up with white women that aren’t marrying them either. So another pertinent question might be, why do so few black men marry at all?”
The same could be asked for White guys as well!
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Ray,
I don’t know what black women you’re talking to, but I wouldn’t want that macho BS from a man. That said, I don’t think you need to apologize for or justify that you happen to be with a woman who compliments you and that she happens to be white.
I am with a white man, only because he asked me out and we hit it off. He could easily have been Asian or Hispanic or black. Love and compatibility is love and compatibility.
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I think one of the reasons why black men and women aren’t getting together is because many black men simply are equiped to be husbands. Abagond mentioned that so many black men lack a good education. My mother and I had a conversation about the difference between the men in her generation and the men in mine. Back in the 1950’s, and 60’s, black men could find jobs even if they lacked a college education. They could work for factories, like Ford or Chrysler. Now those type of jobs just don’t exist anymore, not like it used to be. So many men are umemployed and all men can’t live with their parents when times are tight. Many men find themselves participating in illegal behavior just to survive. I am not condoning this behavior, I am just saying that is why they are doing it. We need to emphasize education to black men. For some reason, black women are more likely than black men to get a college education. That has to stop. Yes there are men who are participating in interracial relationships, but that is not the majority. Interracial relationships is not the main problem. There are so many problems when it comes to our community that needs to be addressed. Such as lack of education, simply making bad choices, lack of forgiveness towards one another, turning our backs on God, peer pressure, racism… etc. Another problem is that blacks are not controlling the businesses in their comunity. Since racism is a problem, owning our own businesses is essential. We can’t entirely controll unemployement problems unless we own sources of employment. Lack of money and jobs can reck havoc on a marriage. I think we need to think about this.
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And another thing Abagond mentioned is that so many black men are in prison. That goes back to what I said about a lack of education. Selling drugs or other behavior has substituted good factory jobs. These men, because of this, are going to jail. And yes sometimes it is racism that causes some men to go to jail, but all these men are not in jail solely because of racism. Some are in jail for actually doing things that are illegal. Once again, we need to stress education to our young men. Forget this thug culture, we need to tell them that a real men can provide for himself and his family, not that other nonsense.
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One more thing, this thug and gangsta culture has to stop. I don’t know exactly what effect this has on black men’s choices but if a significant number of them are listening to this hip hop nonsense, especially when they are young, that can be a problem also. The hip hop culture often tells our young black men that to be a man, one has to be gansta or thuggish. Even some black women have been influenced to believe that a real man is a hard, thuggish man with “swagga” etc. We don’t teach our children what real manhood really is. Unfortunately, so many of our children are brought up without positive male role models, so all they have is the media to influence them and let’s be honest, many of us are not on the case in what we allow our children to watch on Tv. We need to teach our children what real manhood is. A God fearing, hardworking, respectful, community oriented, loving, and supportive man is what they should be striving to be, forget that gansta mess.
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Frankly, I’d be more impressed with this “crisis in black masculinity” crap if white women and latino women – hell women of any color – weren’t complaining in the same way about men.
There’s a reason Oprah has trans-racial appeal among women, y’know.
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@Jeri
I so agree with you, the thugs and ghetto behaving blacks bring the rest of the black race down. how many times have i heard the racists in my city constantly insult the entire black race cause some idiot within it decides to something stupid.
i actually can’t stand rap and hip hop one bit (but i do like r&b). i also refuse to date a guy that tries to be thugish or just look it….
i agree also on the fact that its not solely racism that is the problem. bill cosby said it best when he criticized the black race for things such as ebonics (which i do not like either) and said that the community is more busy trying to rally behind criminals rather than actually help prevent them from becoming criminals.
i mean i know racism is strong in the courts and police, they blame any black (female or male) for any crime that happens, and they punish blacks much more for crimes.
but we can’t really fix that problem without fixing the problems such as the gangsta/ghetto culture that is trying to bring down our race.
i guess in my view, the black race in terms of the community behavior was better before the civil rights ended…when education was valued and wisdom was strong, etc.
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Ray,
DON’T YOU HAVE A MIND OF YOUR OWN. It makes me so sick to hear bull crap like this. Not all black women want GHETTO me. That is not attractive, and furthermore if you have female friends that are saying STUPID statements like that you NEED TO FIND NEW FRIENDS. I swear, I am so sick of black women having NEGATIVE ATTITUDES about one another. I would rather deal with a Klansman, then a NARROW-MINDED, ARROGANT, KNOW-IT-ALL, SELF-HATING, black woman. That is one of the main problems with the black community, we always have something negative to say. So I know i went off topic, but i just had to respond to that. We must have our own minds and stop listening to poor advice from people. I find that when people make comments like that, they are usually not happy. I take advice from couple who have been married for 30+ years, then i come to my own conclusion. And yes, I am happily married to a BLACK MAN, who is not THUGGISH, GHETTO, LOUDMOUTH, OVERBEARING, or anything of that nature. He does own his own business, and he is a good man. So people there are still GOOD BLACK MEN AND WOMEN, out there. Just take your time and get to KNOW THE PERSON. We are all different just like anyone else, so STOP WITH THE STEREOTYPES. PEACE
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MISQUOTE..Not all BLACK WOMEN WANT GHETTO MEN, is what i meant to say…sorry
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to the author: thank you for writing this. I am a college student in the process of obtaining my law degree and I thought the reason I did not have a boyfriend was because I don’t wear clothes that resemble a prostitute, I don’t have a slim figure, or long straight hair that goes down to my back. Most of the women of my race that I see are either in abusive relationships or not at all and I thought I could be different. I now see that I have more odds against me than I previously thought. While your purpose in writing this article may not have been to hurt black womens’ feelings, it did hurt mine. However, I prefer honesty to bullshit any day.
My final thought is that you add an article on how mistreated black women are…by each other, black men, society, every way just about and that is what makes us seem so angry all the time. If you were taught from a young age not to depend on anyone but yourself and the Lord and then to get older and realize that those teachings were true, you would be slightly more than pissed off too.
Again thank you for writing this.
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I don’t quite understand this “black women want thugs stuff” I am going to give a little about my personal experiences. I once was with a very goodlooking black man who was a “thug” He turned out to be a psychotic maniac. He abused me and I did all I could to get out of the relationship. Fortunately, I never had children by him. Now understand, I wasn’t with him because he was a thug. I was just interest in him because he wanted to be with me. He pleaded for us to be a couple, despite that fact that I wanted to take it slow, so I gave in. I must state this. I have no interest in bad boys. I like a confident man who is manly and yes, maybe he acts sort of cool. And yes, it always helps if he is attractive, but a thug. No way. I like a man who is also intelligent and educated. I don’t equate intelligence with “nerdiness” because my father is highly intelligent( He is a math tutor at a local university). My father is also funny, a good dancer, a lover of jazz, he is cool, and he has what some might call “swagga” Many intelligent black men are highly attractive to me. They are sometimes nerdy, but often they are no different than other black men. Why would anyone want to be with someone who is not educated is beyond me. In fact, I think intelligence is sexy. I think a man with power, in a good way, is also attractive. Someone who is a Ceo of a company or something like that. I went to a highschool for the gifted( you had to take a test to get in) and I was exposed to educated, intelligent black boys all the time. Few of them were nerdy to me. Once again, they weren’t any different from other black men except they were ambitous. A woman who doesn’t want an ambitious man is a fool. They were attractive, funny, kind, goodlooking, good dancers, and many were what some might call “cool”. My boyfriend went to the same highschool I did and he was a better student than me( I graduated with a 3.67 average and he graduated with a 3.89 average) I loved the times we spent together. We danced, oh boy, did we party. He volunteered to do good activities, like clean the pollution from rivers, and he went to the same university I did. He majored in Engineering. The only reason why we broke up is because he wanted to have sex and I wasn’t ready. I broke up with him, because he started to neglect me. He wanted sex but he didn’t want to do anything else. Now that I look back on it, he was stressed because the Engineering program was hard and he was used to academics being easy for him. In fact, all my boyfriends were college students when I was going to college. One went to a university in Alabama. He wrote my letters when he went back to school. My first real love went to Tuskegee University. My other boyfriend went to the same university I went to and he lived in the dormitory next to mine. I have never discriminated against educated and intelligent men. So to assume that black women all want thugs is a bad assumption. We are diverse people. I admit I am in my mid-thirties and I was young, before “gangsta rap” became popular. It is possible that black women have been influenced by rap like black men have been. I don’t know. But it is not good to assume things about black women. Now, alot of black men have complained about this. I am not the type not to consider something when so many men are saying something, but I will say this. There are also white women who are similar. In fact, one time I saw a courtroom show where a white women was divorcing her black husband because she thought he was a nerd. She was expecting him to be thuggish because he was black. He dissappointed her. So black women are not the only ones who have been influenced by this gangsta culture. Many white women are attracted to black men, thinking that they are going to be gansta and different from “nerdy” white man. So ignorance comes in all colors. Look at the individual. Not their race.
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Well, I don’t think this problem is fixable. I think history has been so bad for us that it’s impossible to change this situation, as it gets progressively worse by the decade. I think those 42% of black women should leave the country to find open-minded and marriageable men. I don’t think they should all flock to one country, but I think if you want marriage before you are middle aged or never at all, you would do the smartest thing and move on to new territory. It’s no different than being in a workplace and constantly being overlooked and never promoted. You would know that there is no opportunity for you there. This is the exact case in the U.S. and marriage is indeed economic opportunity. I have decided to leave to a more homogenous European country. There I feel I would spark curiousity and considering there aren’t many black women there, I could put my best foot forward and represent us in the best way that I can. It is a major sacrifice but it would be a bigger sacrifice staying in a country without the possibility of marriage. My youth and this rite of passage is too significant for me to ignore and/or allow others to rob me of. Strong women know when to leave.
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If you want unconditional love and companionship, get a dog! Besides they’re cheaper! The only drawback is they can’t work and bring home a pay check.
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Black men and women used to love eachother…its sad because we built such a beautiful culture together…wonderful now its just garbage and no one appreciates what we went through as a culture to get where we are, people just wanna take what they can get and forget where they came from…its sad…I think you should do a post on black couples abagond…
Do a post on black couples in the past/present…like Rosa Parks and her man etc…
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There has always been less marriage among Western black people than most other groups, for historical, cultural and economic reasons. Then throw the sexual revolution into the mix and marriage rates are even lower.
However, other races seem to have large proportions of unmarried women as well. 51 % of women in the USA, of any race, are single. 45 % of non-Hispanic white women and 41 % of Asian women are unmarried. I’d be willing to bet that those numbers will keep rising as time goes on. You don’t even need stats to figure this out. All you have to do is browse some internet dating websites- you’ll find lots of white women in their 30s and 40s looking for “Mr. Right”. But there are not too many stories in the media on white women or Asian women not being able to find husbands.
Then there is the stat the media loves, which says that 70 % of black women with advanced degrees are single. I can think of a reason for this: these women spend their years of highest appeal obtaining advanced degrees instead of pursuing marriage. After they obtain their degrees their appeal has diminished but their standards have increased. Because they have degrees & good jobs they now exclude a large percentage of the population from their potential dating/marriage pool. And any black men who do fit their narrow criteria and are still single can simply take advantage of the new found abundance of women instead of settling down with one of them.
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Cpt:
Excellent comment. Thank you.
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Cpt – good post!
You said, “Then there is the stat the media loves, which says that 70 % of black women with advanced degrees are single. I can think of a reason for this: these women spend their years of highest appeal obtaining advanced degrees instead of pursuing marriage. After they obtain their degrees their appeal has diminished but their standards have increased. Because they have degrees & good jobs they now exclude a large percentage of the population from their potential dating/marriage pool.”
I can see that stat being statistically high for a number of reasons; however, let me just say that this is a growing trend for ALL women. I recall my first professional job after earning my BA. (worked for a year in sh*& before getting a foot in the door) I was so happy to be a part of a big company in the professional world, ready to settle down with someone considered my equal. What did I find? About half the women in my department wanted to go out and find a Doctor or Lawyer to marry. (I’m not kidding, that was actually one of their requirements!!!) Two of them actually suceeded. One of the girls went on to get her Masters degree, and upon completion quit her job to be a stay at home mother….
I know a lot of American women today that seem to try and live their lives by following a “how to/step by step” book. So sad….. (Sorry ladies, I”m not saying “all”…)
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About 42% of black American women have never been married. Never. For white women the number is 22%.
So, what, this implies that black women are about twice as smart as white women…? 😀
Then there is the stat the media loves, which says that 70 % of black women with advanced degrees are single. I can think of a reason for this: these women spend their years of highest appeal obtaining advanced degrees instead of pursuing marriage. After they obtain their degrees their appeal has diminished but their standards have increased. Because they have degrees & good jobs they now exclude a large percentage of the population from their potential dating/marriage pool. And any black men who do fit their narrow criteria and are still single can simply take advantage of the new found abundance of women instead of settling down with one of them.
I think that this is a part of it, sure. But as a person who has a LOT of single black women friends with advanced degrees, I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that a lot of men find that sort of thing off-putting.
I mean, look at our gracious host. Abagond is probably pretty high on anyone’s list when it comes to tolerating what men classify as “women’s bullsh$%” (and yes, ladies, there’s an equal amount of what women classify as “men’s bullsh#$”, so please don’t be offended). And yet even he is leary of what he calls “women-led relationships”.
Folks, a woman who goes through 10 years of higher education before she even begins to start earning money may be a lot of things, but one thing she ISN’T is passive. She’s not going to quitely acquiece to someone because he has a penis between his legs. Furthermore, their advanced degree puts them in the position, more often than not, of economic independence.
If you’re going to marry a woman with an advanced degree, you’d better be ready for a partnership realtionship, at best, and possibly a female-led relationship. This is something most men are trained by sexism to avoid like the plague.
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All in all, Thad, you’re saying that the remaining 20% women are “trashy” (uneducated)?
I don’t really buy “men are scared of strong/educated/intelligent women” argument. But then again, as a guy, you might know better than me. But still it makes no sense. Picky educated women, perhaps. But not even that explains everything about this issue.
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Mira,
I don’t really buy “men are scared of strong/educated/intelligent women” argument.
I do.
Although I think it’s less that they are afraid and more that they feel threatened. Patriarchy has told them that they are supposed to be the ones that are “capable” and “in-charge,” not women. Also, an educated woman is more likely to question them, and one thing men don’t like is to be questioned by a woman. It undermines their sense of pride.
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Well, I am not saying the argument itself doesn’t make sense. It’s just… Many women (at least many women I know) use that as an explanation why they are single. “Well, we all know men are scared of strong women” they say. In other words, they see themselves as strong. The problem is, most of them are not strong, but spoiled and egoistic (at least those I know- it’s very popular in my country for all single women to say this exact thing). If you are really strong and intelligent, you don’t talk about it. “I am strong”. What does that even mean? If you are truly strong you are not even aware of it. You don’t use it to promote your awesomeness. You don’t use it to explain why you’re single. Even if it’s true.
All in all, I think it’s often used as an excuse. And while there are men who can’t handle a strong woman who is in charge, smart, educated, etc., there are plenty of those who can. Why would you waste your time with a patriarchal (in a bad way) man? You don’t need him. There are plenty of those who are different.
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All in all, Thad, you’re saying that the remaining 20% women are “trashy” (uneducated)?
Uhn? I’m not even sure what “remaining 20 percent” this is, Mira. Enlighten me, please.
I don’t really buy “men are scared of strong/educated/intelligent women” argument. But then again, as a guy, you might know better than me.
I didn’t buy it either ’til I started researching johns and then male sexual attitudes in general and began to find out how weird I really was.
On a lot of male-oriented websites “college educated” and “feminist” are synonymous with “castrating, men-hating, repressed dyk$ b¨&*#”. And most college educated women I know are indeed feminist.
Note that I’m not saying “all men” believe this crap. Perhaps not even “most men” are really that put off by women’s independence. But a significant and substantial portion are, one way or another, and I’d say 90% of men are at least SOMEWHAT worried about it and that has to feed into that “70%” stat.
And I think cpt is also right about how sexism regarding men and women’s bodies feeds into it. A 40-year-old reasonably fit male university professor with a steady salary is probably considered a “good catch” for a lot of women. A woman in that same position raises red flags for a lot of men, not the least because men get taught that “pretty” means “under 30”.
So no, again, not all men. But certainly enough to make a difference.
I’m watching a good friend go through this crap right now. She has drastically lowered her standards and STILL can’t find a steady boyfriend. 9 times out of 10, it boils down to the fact that she’s committed to her job and thus has to move around a lot.
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In other words, they see themselves as strong. The problem is, most of them are not strong, but spoiled and egoistic (at least those I know- it’s very popular in my country for all single women to say this exact thing). If you are really strong and intelligent, you don’t talk about it. “I am strong”. What does that even mean? If you are truly strong you are not even aware of it. You don’t use it to promote your awesomeness. You don’t use it to explain why you’re single. Even if it’s true.
This is true as well.
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Uhn? I’m not even sure what “remaining 20 percent” this is, Mira. Enlighten me, please.
There are 22% unmarried white women, and 42% unmarried black women. The remaining 20% whites must be trashy and uneducated since men are not afraid to marry them (because, as we learned, men are scared of strong and successful women). Oh, and wait, they are white. Maybe some men see them as less trashy than they actually are because they are white? Maybe they see black women as trashy even if they are educated? Maybe nothing of this make sense and we’ll never find out the reason?
On a lot of male-oriented websites “college educated” and “feminist” are synonymous with “castrating, men-hating, repressed dyk$ b¨&*#”. And most college educated women I know are indeed feminist.
Which is, of course, NOT a synonym for castrating, men-hating, repressed dyk$ b¨&*# ?
Note that I’m not saying “all men” believe this crap. Perhaps not even “most men” are really that put off by women’s independence. But a significant and substantial portion are.
I don’t know what to say. It’s not that I don’t trust your or Natasha’s words, but I guess something in me simply rejects this explanation. True, men were never especially interested in me but I thought that’s because I’m a tomboyish. lol.
I guess I am not much of a feminist. I don’t want to see men as pathetic as that.
9 times out of 10, it boils down to the fact that she’s committed to her job and thus has to move around a lot.
But isn’t that what some guys like? As far as I know, they hate possessive women who want to be with them 24/7. So there you go.
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Mira,
I agree — it shouldn’t be used as an excuse for an ill-developed personality. But there is some truth to it.
Also, not all men are like this, but even the best have some elements of this idealogy in them. It’s kind of inevitable. Even my SO who, if I dare ever question feminist philosophy, is quick to inform me that the Women’s Movement was the best thing that ever happened to modern women, likes a slightly subservient woman. Although he’d deny it vehemently if you asked him.
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Abagond did not mention all of the brothers that are on the “down low”.
You know what that means …
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There are 22% unmarried white women, and 42% unmarried black women. The remaining 20% whites must be trashy and uneducated since men are not afraid to marry them (because, as we learned, men are scared of strong and successful women).
Naw, not trashy. Just stupider. (Hyperbole warning) 😀
Which is, of course, NOT a synonym for castrating, men-hating, repressed dyk$ b¨&*# ?
Not even close. In fact, non-feminists like Anne Coulter probably fit that stereotype more closely.
True, men were never especially interested in me but I thought that’s because I’m a tomboyish. lol.
Well, there you go then. Only it ain’t looks, it’s attitude.
But isn’t that what some guys like? As far as I know, they hate possessive women who want to be with them 24/7. So there you go.
They don’t want their women to be possessive, but they also want them to be on call, 24/7. This is called “being family oriented”. Go figure.
Derek sez:
Abagond did not mention all of the brothers that are on the “down low”.
You know what that means …
Would you like to regail us with your adventures, Derek?
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“Derek sez:
Abagond did not mention all of the brothers that are on the “down low”.
You know what that means …
Would you like to regail us with your adventures, Derek?”
Hahahahahah!!!!!
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No, seriously. I’m really happy Derek’s showed up. For far too long now, this blog has had a heterosexist bias.
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“women will be forced to marry down”
This passage along with all of these other ignorant comments are really a big insult to people like myself. At 35 I am unmarried, I have an education and i have not fathered any children. Yet, I can not find a woman to save my life. It’s just so amazing to me. Also, the ‘degree’ thing is really horrible. The absolute hatred from women on here is really something. It’s as if all that matters in life is a degree, $$$. Well, that’s the problem right there. Also, black men in this country are marginalized. There is a such thing as racism. And most black males are not allowed to participate in areas of this society’s markets. Many companies are more open to black women because they can meet two Quotas, black and female. The tired old argument of how black women have it the worse is and has always been a lie. But it matters not any more. Black America is Dead. And like the native Americans, they too will be absorbed. I ask all black men who are like me and have no hope of meeting any one as a result of being that invisible minority to women. Leave the usa, travel to Asia or South America and seek a woman. Do whatever it takes to ensure your happiness and to escape this nightmare country. Every black male I know in my city is alone. We are business owners, academics and more, yet we can not meet anyone. This is not life, it is like living in slavery. But that is the point. To kill your soul. Trust me, America is not ‘it’. Find happiness brothers and forget about black women, they are sick and hate us.
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“I’m a 2nd generation Nigerian female at one the America’s best colleges. I plan on becoming a physician and sub-specializing in anesthesiology. I currently have a 4.0 GPA and can graduate in 3 years if I choose to.”
Amazing, such commitment to the material. Degrees and more are worn like a badge. How pathetic is a human being that all that they are is defined by the endorsements of someone elses system. For the Love of money. I wonder if the African chose medicine to help humanity or just to get some $$$. I tend to agree with the later. it is also funny how people connect a degree with some sort of elevated thinking. Finding those who are trained to do one particular thing hardly reflects any kind of intellectual ability. Anyone can be trained to carry out a task and given a certificate. You all are like rats in a cage being given peanuts for rolling over. So far have blacks fallen. And to think that black women define the value of a man on if he has a certificate or not. And not based on the value of his character. “Female led relationship”. The power trips are incredible. Such Hatred. As if a man will willingly submit to being a slave of a women. Some do and so the future will be a fallen west. The men and sons of a ruling woman will only turn on all women. And the world will be as it once was. The backlash is coming. I hope that women understand that which they are sewing in the hearts of all men. By breaking them and their spirit. The forgotten sons will have fire in their eyes. And so will the streets.
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You know what i think is hilarious? How people who’ve never put the effort into getting an advanced degree like to claim it’s no big deal.
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Here’s a huge point which your analysis misses, Abagond: many of those 42 men/women are living with a stable partner but have never bothered to marry.
It amazes me how Americans fetishize marriage, as if the act of registering a relationship with the state or church suddenly means that it’s “real”.
In Brazil, we count as “married” anyone who is living together as man and wife, whatever their “official” status might be. People who point to Brazil’s relatively large marriage rate are always forgetting this point.
I bet at least 10 or more of those guys are married in fact, if not in legal fiction.
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Well, Rejan, I’m currently teaching people who’ll one day be cardiovascular surgeons. Far be it for me to belittle the medical sciences. But reading the papers most of mys tudents turn in, all I can say is that it’s lucky for them they won’t be in a profession which values writing skills.
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Why does it matter just marry who you love the rest doesn’t matter.
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I so very much agree with the whole thing about black females SOME..having that attitude thing..it is very true…as a black woman i am not putting my sistas down but I am just saying that some of them need to chill a bit and not take things so seriously all the the time especially with the attitude thing. I for a fact will say that kind of behavior annoys me as I am reserved black female myself.
Part II. It is also very true that most black men these days are all about being thugs and are all about Weezie..its not cool and its not attractive. When are some of these men going to realize that they need an education and they need to stay in school. Its very rare one sees a well educated black male who is interested in family I am not saying all black men are this way but most majority…and it is even prominent in the young generation which means things are only getting worse and worse…its about time something be done…lets follow the Obama family they are an GREAT example of a healthy black family who has it together..get it together!
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I believe this was the successful plan of the white man.
I wish there was no such thing as racism. I really did.
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@Larry “Leave the usa, travel to Asia or South America and seek a woman. Do whatever it takes to ensure your happiness and to escape this nightmare country. ”
That right there shows you never liked black women and come up with excuses not to be with them. Your whole comment reeks of that. So why not travel to Africa and find an available woman? Why not travel to any country with available black women? It’s because you don’t want one. There’s no hateful comments on here. I mean there some comments that I DO disagree with but I don’t see the hate you spoke of.
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I love that picture. Black Love is so beautiful. Real black love is truly something to envy. Sexiest thing ever in my opinion.
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I wanted to date this black chick once, but sadly she was way outta my league in looks and education.
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Man, I am so sick and tired of the black women bashing from certain comments on here.
Here’s the thing. I love all women, but black women always come first for me. Why? Because I was born from a black woman.
I will admit that I had less than pleasant experiences with a FEW black women in my life, but MANY BLACK WOMEN I’ve met were beautiful inside and outside. They were smart, beautiful, and loved themselves. They didn’t date thugs or ex-cons. They dated and married good men with something going in their lives. They were college educated, career oriented black men with a good hearts and minds.
I wonder how these black female bashing black men are approaching these sistas? I wonder if they consider the fact that they came from black women and by condemn their sistas is condemning someone else’s mother as well. More importantly, do these brothas realize that what they’re saying is not only sexist but also racist?
I know there are black women who do the same with black men. It’s the same damn thing. We hurt each other because at some point in our lives we were hurt. These guys want other people to share their pain and stay away from each other. No good will come of that, and I’m sick to death of this hatred that was never checked. If you don’t like the opposite sex of the same race, that’s your problem, but don’t preach to all other people that they should dislike them too.
Bottom line, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME DAMN BOAT, black men AND black women alike. So, it’s stupid to think that it’s just black men or just black women being marginalized or attacked. It’s bad enough to have white society put us down all the time, it’s sad that some of us have jumped on the bandwagon and act like whites whether they know it or not. That’s the true meaning of being brainwashed.
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*breathes*
And fellas, just because you’ve been hurt by a few black women in your life because I know it’s impossible for most black women in the world to harm you at any point, don’t use that hurt to condemn all black women. That’s illogical if not a childish move. I used to be the same way, but I had to let it go, let my guard down and learn. Staying angry and bitter won’t go away unless you own up to your pain.
By the way, getting with white women because you think they treat you better is also a sucker’s move. And don’t think that’s some sort of revolutionary thing. It’s not revolutionary if you get with the woman of the oppressor while throwing your mothers and sistas under the bus. That’s a sign of self-hatred. Plain and simple.
Also, if your a brotha that treats black women like crap, but get angry at them for having an attitude, you really need help. For real, it’s not cool or wise to do so. That makes you look crazy as hell. If you are that type of brotha that does that shit, then it’s a good thing black women are staying away from you because you need a serious self-assessment test and psychological makeover.
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I’m sorry Abagond, but I need to say one last thing on the subject:
Not all or most black women are single baby mamas with multiple kids. That’s a racist stereotype that you AGREE with. WTH?? Doesn’t that seem messed up that a black man agrees with racist white men about their own black women? Think about it for real? Stop continuing that messed up imagery about black people.
Brothas, I know there are SOME black women who date thugs and gangstas, but there are many black women that want positive brothas. They want brothas who won’t treat them like shit. That’s reasonable isn’t it? Sistas have standards like brothas have standards and like PEOPLE have standards.
And if you do know sistas that date thugs and whatnot, why should you care? Find a black woman that want men like you. Besides there are some women in ALL races that prefer thugs, men with power, and any other status symbol. Work on finding that one special sista for YOU. At the end of the day, YOU have to worry about YOU.
You shouldn’t listen to outside sources to fuel your loneliness. Don’t read anything that tells you how bad the opposite sex is within your own group. That is an ignorant move. That means you are easily fooled by the same society that hates your asses. Wake up, please.
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Wow, how scary. I think the 3 things we can improve on in this list are the numbers of black men who are in prison, lack enough education and the dead.
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@ Brothawolf: Great commentary as usual 🙂
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Oh, its about to get better
Thats crap. A 2011 Pew Report shows that 93 percent of AA woman are obese, with 53 percent morbidly so. Also the CDC report on mental illness (as of 2006) says that 73 percent of AA women suffer from Willie Lynch syndrome, compared to just 17 percent of men.
What the hell is this? Dr. Phil?
Based on scientific and statistical evidence, ALL black women possess a risk to the black race and should be condemned like like real estate on a toxic waste dump.
OK, now that’s just crazy. I’m getting back at the white man for 450 years of oppression. How’s that NOT revolutionary?
Why do I need help for exercising perfectly logical behaviour?
All stereotypes have some truth to them. Look at the latest US Census – 79 percent of black women under the age of 26 have 2 children.
They don;t exist. And if guys like you and black women your way, neither will the black race.
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“”And if you do know sistas that date thugs and whatnot, why should you care?”
Brothawolf, they are your sistas, that’s why you should care.
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Someone on this thread commented on the fact that an otherwise “beautiful” woman of his acquaintance was having trouble finding a steady BF due to her job.
I want to know, why should a man marry a woman who is:
Too old to have children (and who is also too busy to take care of them)
and
Too rootless to be able to stay in one place?
What does she have to offer, besides an intermittent source of sex?
Seriously speaking, what does she have to offer?
She can’t make you a father (married to her job, frequent traveler and is too old.)
She can’t make a home (unable to be there for dinner, decorating, church attendance, shoulder rubs or congratulations, etc. Either, you’re expected to make a new home with her on a regular basis or you’re being left behind.)
She can’t sleep with you (but if/when *you* give in to temptation after 2+ years of her being in a different state or country, *you’re* the bad guy. If/when she does so, its because she was “lonely” or given the fact that business trips and cheating go hand in hand, its because she found someone better.)
And in the end, there are over 30 American states that mandate lifetime alimony.
So let me get this straight: I’m supposed to marry a woman who’s too old to make children, who won’t be there to help me raise children if we decide to adopt and who probably didn’t want children anyway (in a country in which finding women who complain about denying their dreams to facilitate motherhood is as easy as throwing a rock into a crowd.) I’m supposed to marry a woman who won’t be there to help me clean a house, trade meals, eat meals with me, watch movies together, rub my forehead, accept foot rubs, bolster me when I’m weak, accept my gratitude when she’s strong, etc. (Except over the phone or on Skype, because she’s always somewhere else…) I’m supposed to marry a woman who can’t sleep with me (while living in a society in which *my* fidelity is criminalised and *her* fidelity is seen as neutral at worst.) All while taking on the risk of being liable for all of her debts (in case she’s been living the SATC lifestyle), restraining/denying myself the attentions of available women who have no problem with being in the same city as me (while living in a time in which people don’t have to travel thousands to miles on a regular basis to make a decent living), risking her own infidelity (corporations, despite sexual harassment laws, are notorious for travel-based hanky-panky), to live with the fear that lifetime alimony/division of assets are guaranteed to benefit her if we get married in any non-Rust Belt/Southern state. Yes, that makes perfect sense
/sarc.
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Can’t believe I’ve read most of these comments and most are just repeats and lot of them are just insults to each other. As a wise man who has traveled and lived in every part this beastly land of Babylon it’s all vain I can say.
First off America is falling. No matter anyone can do about it. Every facet of this society is falling apart because we are demanding to much freedom and the 1% that controls everything in this country is terrified. They saw this day coming when we would be rioting and burning this country down and wanting to kill those responsible for our insane state.
All over world women are rising and as China becomes more of an intellectual society the women there are rising. Being that a traditional woman needed a man as a bread winner and thus choose to marry for protection and provision modern woman has both without a man. Police enforce laws throughout the land and jobs are readily available for women that their grandmothers didn’t have. So many women see no need to get married only have relationships. This is a trend in every society on earth that is connected to Babylon a.k.a American and the Western world. We are becoming a society of plush loving creatures who find more comfort with our iphones, ipads and video games than we do with social interraction and nature exploration. We are losing human connection with each other and we are at war everywhere within our society.
Its amazing how we got there as I read somone quoting W.E.B Dubois on how the Negro Race will be saved by its exceptional men I had to wonder. I wonder how is that all those ancient societies like Rome, Greece, India and Egypt thought the same thing? Everyone one of those ancient marvelous Kingdoms were built by craftsmen, farmers and soldiers. Men of simple origins built great kingdoms they built the infrastructures, the roads, the bridges, the accuducts, the commerce, the trade and everything else. Yet as thei societies aged in their greatness leisureness was created from the abundance so their children could afford to attend universities and get scholarly academic educations and degrees. Yet it wasn’t soon after that everything began to get worse and not better. Societies have shown through history to crumble when they get too high upon their horses and forget the ordinary humble beginnings that created them.
Look at America everyone racing to get college education and degrees and now we got all these overpaid persons who don’t build anything. We import almost everything to be the world’s most educated society. If the Black Community is so better to have followed it’s exceptional men then how come it’s leads every negative statistics? We have been pushing education for many decades and highlighted these talented HUBC’s and elite Blacks who have education but why are we doing so badly? We haven’t we built anything for ourselves? Why is that other minorities have come here with little education and have passed us up? Because they have followed the basic civilizaton building ideas which is to take simple tools and build.
When this society implodes upon itself and it will soon I feel sorrry for all you intellectuals who don’t know how to use a hammer. Women are wrong to knock blue collar men and talking about marrying down when your grandfathers were blue collar men who built this country. The skyscapers in which your cubicle sits its foundation was built by blue collar men. The desk in which the engineer sat and drew the blue prints was built by a blue collar. Getting a degree is about moving higher in social status, gettting overpaid for your worth and not about the genuine pursuit of knowledge. It amazes me how little wisdom if any most college educated people possess because they spent all their time and money on college electives than actual specialized technical knowledge. Higher education is a business and is another divide and conquer tool to seperate the poor into a made up class called the Middle Class when in fact there is only rich and poor. Many of you are only a few checks from the poor house and when the economy collapse I pray you know what to do with that hammer when the bank take the house away!
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After reading some of these comments, it has become very clear to me, that many black people in America are quite misinformed about academia and what happens beyond it’s doors.
For every 1 black woman earning a degree to get a “decent” job and make “good” money, there were at least six who were going through the rigor of undergraduate coursework to find herself and to make since of the world–and perhaps even learn to think more critically. This is just about true for black men earning a degree. Black people, IME don’t only attend college with the ambition of becoming affluent. Why? Well, a capitalist system like America requires one to be already from an affluent background before you set foot on a university campus for a degree to even make that big of a difference.
Contrary to popular belief, there are black women (since there are so many taking stabs at our sisters) who love literature, language, history, research, tradition, social science, the classics, familial influences and pressure etc. that motivates them to complete their studies. Not some flimsy idea of becoming a high earning professional.
Here is what i encountered: There were actually fewer black women where i studied than black men, so there was always competition among the men to attract, court and ultimately marry the black women beyond graduation. I know this sounds very, very foreign to the black men in America who believe “educated” black women turn them down because they don’t have a degree. No fools–most of those black women you speak of are already taken. Because they were heavily persued by black men who were more educated than they were. This was true for my husband when he was a post graduate student and it continues to be true for my brother who is completing his undergraduate degree. Btw…these are hardly isolated examples.
It is also true that is more likely for black women in academia (whatever their reason) to be paired up with black men in academia by their colleauges! There are these–shall i say departmental circles and everyone seems to know someone who would pair really well with you, even if they are at another institution. Go figure.
This is slightly off topic, but there was no shortage of black men for me to choose from. I also think lots of black people are mistrusting of taking the census and participating in case studies, so all of our voices do not get heard.
If you are having a really rough time landing a black man or woman who is suitable for marriage–then it may be time to question your motives, your circle of friends, geographic location and even how much influence your family members have on your life.
If it is one thing i have learned about American blacks–it is that they are very allergic and often times prejudiced to travel outside of their state and sometimes their cities of birth let alone leaving the U.S. to experience the world.
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I don’t think the many Black women single has anything to do with Blackwomen having more higher education or higher paying jobs than Blackmen. Blackmen who get paid high salaries get paid higher than Blackwomen who get paid higher salaries.
I think Blackwomen are just too independent to a fault. I’m speaking of American Blackwomen not all Blackwomen worldwide. If you travel outside of the world physically or mentally you will see that there’s a such thing as ethnicity and we as Black Americans have our own ethnicity that seperates us from other Blacks around the world. The difference with Black Women in America versus elsewhere like African countres is that the sisters over there support their men. The fear, rape and toture of Black American women have forced them mentally to be highly insecure and very much for themselves. This Diva mentally that exists here amongst African American women doesn’t exist in African countries. Women in Africa are mentors to each other and younger women they bear a certain responsibility to ensure that womanhood contributes to the society and a standard is maintained.
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^Really you think so? Cause i have lived in three African countries and i can say this:
Sisters there are no different than Sisters in the diaspora.What you say is simply a myth!
This Diva mentally that exists here amongst African American women doesn’t exist in African countries. Women in Africa are mentors to each other and younger women they bear a certain responsibility to ensure that womanhood contributes to the society and a standard is maintained.
They don’t produce Nollywood or Gollywood films without basing the scripts and characters off real life women in Africa. Maybe you should do a little homework.
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Why is that some American men both black and white, seem to believe that there is a surplus of available and ready to committ, submissive women in other nations?
Do people seriously not realize that globalization is making people the world over value westernization? This means that slowly but surely, young women in Africa are no longer being raised to be women who can cook, clean and take care of a home. They are being bred to go to university and hire “maids” once they get married.
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If black women want to be more competitive in the sexual market place, I think the issue of obesity has to be addressed. Half of black American women are obese by the BMI index. Eighty percent are overweight.
Now I realize that black men tend to like women that are thicker, but there’s a difference between being having a little junk in the trunk(in a good way) like Esther Baxter, and being morbidly overweight.
It’s my personal policy that I do not date overweight women that don’t take care of themselves and eat unhealthy. I’m simply not attracted to them. I prefer more petite figures. So I feel like a large number of black women are taken off the market for me on that one reason alone. I know my opinion is probably in the minority because I see a lot of black men still hollering at black women who are overweight and seem to have no problem with it. But if it’s true that there aren’t enough black men to go around, then black women may want to appeal to a wider market and I think controlling obesity will help greatly in this as most men are not as tolerant of fat as black men are.
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Peanut,
Sure you see black guys with fat women however most of those guys are with those women due to lack of better options. And when I say fat, I don’t mean thick in a healthy way (ie Esther Baxter, Jennifer Hudson, or Toccarra) I’m talking BIG. It’s harsh but true. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t use guys w/ no options as the standard of the type of woman to be. I look at guys *I* find attractive and they aren’t with obese women, so by observing thier dating habits I know that staying in shape is what they want.
Also, what white women can or can’t get away with has little to do with black women. If black women aren’t getting married and the guys WHO ACTUALLY WANT to marry black women say they need to lose weight…then maybe the obese BW having man trouble should lose weight. It only makes sense. Being slimmer and healthier won’t garuntee dating success but it does increase ones chances.
I understand that BW, anyone for that matter, will lose weight and keep it off only if they make the conscious decision to. However, I feel a lot of people make the mistake of ignoring what the opposite sex wants. If a woman’s weight is holding her back romantically she has every right to refuse to lose and wait for someone to love her for her. However she can’t complain when meet with rejection because of weight. She knows the flex, yet she chose to not do anything about it. And rejection is a consequence of that decision. Romance is a two way street, if you like someone and want then to like you, you have to cater there wants and be what they are looking for…
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It’s anecdotal yes, but I do have to say that most of the Black men I know who are dating or have dated white women, the women weren’t merely ‘thick’, they were downright fat (flabby bellies, no waistline to speak of, zero trunk junk), and many were/are HUGE; well over 300 lbs. This has also been true of many of the Black men whom I see out and about in the company of white women, as well as those in the company (shopping etc.) of other non-Black women, more specifically East Asian and Indo-Caribbean women.
I don’t personally know any Black men who are dating or married to morbidly obese Black women. Thick ones, yes…chunky ones, yes; but not a morbidly obese one who is also Black. And what’s more, I rarely ever see this combo anywhere I go.
I guess in the minds of many of these guys, the imagined elevation of status they enjoy by having a non-Black woman in their grasp *outweighs* most everything they find especially unattractive, off-putting and unforgivable when it comes to the women who resemble them the most.
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Black men who date those nasty white 400lb white women are losers with zero standards. I don’t think black women are missing anything there. I don’t see such a black man all that often but when I do it’s cringe-worthy. I tend to see this more commonly in the south. I’m guessing these guys would rather be dating Meagan Fox if they could but alas these obese white women are all they can pull.
But what I said in my prior post was about black women doing things to appeal to a wider variety of men. Abagond’s status showed that even if all black men married black women, there still aren’t enough to go around. So some of them will have to figure out a way to appeal to other types of men. I think slimming down will help. Don’t take this offensively, sistas. I’m sure many of you in here exercise, eat well and look great. But I’m just looking at the statistical trends.
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I am really sick of people picking on black men and black women about marriage and obesity stats–that in many cases they are taking outta context anyway.
People always,always want to curr about black women’s relationships but they never talk about the fact that there are 4.6 million more white women than white men and that because white women outnumber black women in this country–it is plausible to say that if a sizeable number of Americans are obese this would include white women’s obesity figures being sky high.
Unless you understand how to critically analyze those numbers, stay far, far away from them and do not attempt to use them to put black people down.
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From what I understand white women outnumber white men at old age, not the prime marriage years. Whereas black women outnumber black men at all age groups.
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Nope….when comparing figures of black men and women in large urban areas of marriage age, the ratios is 2 to 1.
http://www.empowermagazine.com/new-research-shatters-myths-and-provides-new-hope-for-black-love-and-marriage/
I challenge you and others to leave the racist stats alone. If “you” (notice the rhetorical you) don’t want a black woman for a partner/spouse–that is all fine because there are plenty others that do.
Black women are no more “fatter”, “uglier” or “unmarriageable” than any other group of women. We are human beings and so are black men.
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Peanut said:
The main reason single people want to look great is to attract someone of the opposite sex. Once again, if black women are having a hard time in the dating market, maximizing your appearance is the best place to start(if you are overweight). Why is this so controversial?
I don’t buy all those excuses listed above from poverty to racism to explain it all. People get overweight simply because they let themselves go and don’t care. Or they their culture tolerates it. Black American culture for whatever reason is very fat tolerant.
Look at how these brothas are just swooning over this overweight woman like she was Miss Universe:
I sit here in disbelief that anyone would find all that cottage cheese to be sexy.
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Stop making sense Phoebe.
@tulio:
We get it, you don’t like fat women as many others on here don’t. Define fat, when do you consider a woman fat, I am not referring to extremes like 500 lbs behemoths.
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Deep Breaths.. In, out, in, out…
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@ Peanut
Good Lord? What’s going on here? Peanut, can I interject just for a minute? A lot of people come here to troll and fire you up. Don’t take the bait. Once I got my emotions under (some) control, I realized that dealing with non-constructive people is a waste of time and energy. Neely Fuller explained to me that no one hates black people more than black folks. Don’t take the bait.
I think most blacks know that racism and poor access to fresh farmers markets along with vanishing paychecks contribute to the high obesity rate in poor black neighbourhoods. But, we are becoming wiser to the game each day…We’re getting more conscious, reading more and having greater understanding of why we fall into certain traps.
Please calm down and ignore the inciteful comments.
Just focus on your community and your over all state of being.
P.S.
Forgive me, but dating white men doesn’t help our cause. It just serves as further confusion and internalized issues amongst our people.
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@ Peanut
No worries, luv. We all say things in the heat of the moment.
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Peanut said:
Go back and re-read my comments from the beginning. Abagond said that EVEN IF EVERY BLACK MAN MARRIED A BLACK WOMAN, THERE WOULD STILL NOT BE ENOUGH BLACK MEN TO GO AROUND. Thus even if black men had no interests in dating out, a large number of black women will be left out due to demographic issues.
They can either suck it up and learn to enjoy being single for life, or they can try and find ways to appeal to men outside of the race. Now of all the men out there, black men seem to tolerate or even enjoy large women the most. This is not something universally shared by men. In the video I posted above, Miss cottage cheese seemingly has no shortage of attention from black men, but would that happen with white, Asian and Hispanic men? Probably not. And once again, there’s a distinction between a girl that’s nicely thick like: http://www25.patrz.pl/u/f/17/73/50/177350.jpg and a woman like you see in that video. So don’t think I’m saying women have to be waifs.
If black women want to appeal to a wider group of men, the weight issue is something to address. Quit getting so defensive about it, Peanut. If 80% of black men were overweight, I’d be telling brothas to get their asses to the gym as well. And @ truthbetold who seems to suggest I’m trolling. I’m not trolling, I’m having a rational discussion with someone who doesn’t agree with me. That isn’t trolling.
Anyway at this point I think we’re going in circles and there’s nothing new for me to add here.
…and one more thing about the healthy food availability, it’s supply and demand. I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If there’s a demand for some type of food, someone will deliver it. Nobody is going to open up a organic fresh food store in the hood without there being requisite demand for such a thing. For example, a few years ago, I was back east with my mother and we went into a corner Italian store in a poor black part of town where we were visiting family. She ordered a turkey sub and asked for wheat bread. The owner said they only have white bread. My mom asked why and he said because nobody ever asks for wheat bread. I’m sure he’d carry it if there was a demand for it. If there is a huge demand for fresh organic produce in the hood yet nobody wants to supply it, I’d say then that there’s a business opportunity for you to open such a market.
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Tulio has some interesting points:
I grew up in Africa and I have to say a lot of African Women are what can I say, on the weighty side. Not that there isn’t also a lot on the thin slender side.
However, I remember once in school way back then, my history teacher commented that such women are the pride of Africa and to be honest they are considered beautiful. It’s not that they are fat and slabby, not that I would know, but they definitely do have weight, don’t know if you call it thick or whatever – but not obese like fast food obese..
Anyways, sooooo it aint all about eating mcdonalds and kfc’s but I am sure that factors in as well since what you eat is what you are…
It should also be mentioned that at least in africa, how one looks depends on what tribe one is from. Some tribes tend to produce people who are tall and lean others people who are short and stocky, others people who are light in appearance others dark in appearance etc etc.. then obviously you have different combinations that come out when mixing occurs etc… And you know, blacks abroad came out of africa and they took there tribal genes with them so it isn’t like they became black europeans rather europeanized african people with african genes…
Anyways, bottom line is beauty standards on the African continent in a traditional sense are different from the european one… It makes you wonder why? Why would they be different???
What does this mean?
I don’t know…
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From laromana:
Thus even if black men had no interests in dating out, a large number of black women will be left out due to demographic issues.
They can either suck it up and learn to enjoy being single for life, or they can try and find ways to appeal to men outside of the race.
Peanut says in response to tulio,
don’t sit there and criticize, you don’t like fat women, fine…but don’t insult people. There is nothing controversial about wanting people to be healthy , I said that, but it’s STUPID to tell black women to lose weight for black men when they date fat white women ANY WAY. who gives a sh-t about them.
Sick of that hypocrisy kim kardashian worship when IF she were a black woman she would be a HO period!!! BOY, SOME OF YOU GUYS KILL ME!!!
laromana says,
Peanut,
I totally agree with your response to tulio. EVERYONE needs to admit/accept the FACT that, especially in America, ALL American men are BRAINWASHED to dismiss/disrespect BW SOLELY because they’re Black.
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Peanut said:
There’s a problem with unhealthy eating and lack of exercise in America in general, but I think the problem is more acute in the black community. When I think of what we call “soul food”, it’s very tasty, but pretty fattening at the same time. The cornbread, the ham hocks, sweet potato pies, fatback, red beans and rice, fried chicken. I love this stuff, but can only eat these things on a special occasion. But many eat it all the time, especially in the south.
How many blacks folks are serious about healthy eating? I don’t have a way to quantify that in any objective manner, but I’d say of my diverse array of friends, the ones that are likely to be vegetarian and vegans are usually white and sometimes Hispanic.
Take a look at this, I think it pretty well sums up what’s going on:
http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/aahealth/healthybody.cfm
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@ Peanut
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/06/07/fat-and-black-obesity-in-ameriklan/
@ Tulio
My apologies at the “trolling” comment. We get many folks that just come to unravel us. You have a great point. Economics, ignorance and cultural practices play a large role in this epidemic. Along with a large dose of “well…this is how my folks do it so…”
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@DAON:
tulio is no troll-just a black guy who feels it’s his duty to explain to black people why he thinks black women don’t cut it–he should be a bit more specific and say they (black women) don’t cut it for him as i have said numerous times before that 88% of ALL married black men have black wives…and sometimes depending on the way the figure is presented it is closer to 90%
@tulio it is perfectly fine if you are not interested in black women as romantic partners–you will just be joining the small minority of black men and black women who prefer the “other” white meat…
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What I’m curious about is men who reject black women, insisting that they are loud, vulgar, obese, inelegant, ungracious, etc., but who turn around and date non-black women who are loud, vulgar, obese, inelegant, ungracious, etc. They not only date this woman, but they parade her in public, as if she were the Queen of England. She is a mark of honor and pride for him. Why is that?
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@grin and bear it
I’m going to take a wild guess and say this is a classic case of holding the opposite gender of your in-group to very high standards while not requiring those same standards be met by the opposite gender in an out- group.
Usually what i have seen time and time again is people who marry/date interracially tend to be emotional wrecks–not ALL–but a good majority of black people i know who are paired up with–especially whites–tend to have a very negative view of the opposite gender of their own race and the opposite gender of the race of man/woman they are with. If this makes sense to you.
But i know the usual comments to something like this is that “oh it is nobody’s business who i love”, or “love has no color”….etc, etc.
I think people should be with whomever completes them, but let’s be real for a moment and realize that too much focus is being placed on black women–which makes me wonder if there is a sub-conscious desire to have access to the very thing you claim to hate???
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^oops…. i meant negative view of the same gender of the opposite race.
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interesting post. i wouldn’t have thought male-female ratios would be the main reason for the high numbers of unmarried ‘black’ women.
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It is amazing how black men seem to be moving toward marriage with women of other races, yet, all of these alone black women are having more black babies than onlookers can count. Wake up folk! It still takes a black man to get a black woman pregnant with black babies. Many of these women are having babies by many daddies, unless they are being artificially inseminated. When these black men stop getting too many black women pregnant, I will believe that most are faithful to their wives, black or another race. Many of these men walk out of one back door into another. What percentage of black men have one woman only and do not cheat with several others? If there are 5 black women for every 1 black man, how in the world can most of these black, single mothers have babies by several men? Yet, they are reported as alone. Many may not be married, but most are not alone. They may not be married, but they are helping themselves to marital privileges. That is not pretty, but it is happening.Give me a break!
Before anyone protests, I know that men of other races cheat too. The focus is on blacks. Most men cheat more than society thinks.
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I am not focusing my comment above on blacks everywhere, just the USA in general.
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I love black men because they are still our brothers, sons, cousins, friends, neighbors, husbands, etc. We must love them, but truth is truth. I see MANY black men with obese white and black women. We know that some black men make up unnecessary excuses for marrying out. Most of the excuses are designed to put black women down because insecure white women love it when black men say such things. It is mostly immaturity and should be ignored when possible. The more upscale white women who want black men marry the successful ones, so, if “the grits hits the fan, they take them for every penny they can get. I must admit that I exhale when that happens to a black woman basher. So, they learn harsh lessons like a black or white woman can be good or bad, obese or skinny. People are people. Remember “The Diary of a Mad Black Woman”? I Loved it because bashing and abusing are not necessary and the guy learned a rude lesson.
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I love black men because they are still our brothers, sons, cousins, friends, neighbors, husbands, etc. We must love them, but truth is truth. I see MANY black men with obese white and black women. We know that some black men make up unnecessary excuses for marrying out. Most of the excuses are designed to put black women down because insecure white women love it when black men say such things. It is mostly immaturity and should be ignored when possible. The more upscale white women who want black men marry the successful ones, so, if “the grits hits the fan, they take them for every penny they can get. I must admit that I exhale when that happens to a black woman basher. So, they learn harsh lessons like a black or white woman can be good or bad, obese or skinny. People are people. Remember Tyler Perry’s THE DIARY OF A MAD BLACK WOMAN”? I Loved it because bashing and abusing are not necessary and the ex-husband learned a rude lesson.
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Sometimes Black American women fake orgasms or sexual pleasure with Black men in order to stroke the Black man’s ego. Women admit this to other women. Black women brag about what a Black man can do in bed for that same reason. So Black guys guys walk around thinking they’re so good in bed and White men believe the stereotypes.
http://www.essence.com/2010/10/05/stop-faking-orgasm/
If you want to please a woman, you have to care about her pleasure and be patient. Women sexual pleasure is different from men’s. It has nothing to do with race unless that person believes in the stereotypes..
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It is true that many black women in the USA are overweigh, but others are too. Blacks are said to be 12% of the USA population. Black women outnumber black men about 4 to 1. Let’s delete all of the skinny black females, children, elderly, and marriageable men from tht 12%. Now, we have a very small percentage of black women left. How is that small percentage causing the country an obesity problem? Other races together have way more obese women numerically than the black women. We are a minority according to the stats.
Let’s say that all black people in the USA are obese, every one. 12% would still be a small number of people. Obesity is a problem in our country. but the black race is a small part of it, and black obese women present a minute number and percentage of obese women. The only situation where blacks stand out as fat is when percentages are used rather than numbers.
Does anyone realize that there are many, many FAT men of all races? If women refused fat men, that would be a problem too. And again, women are not as judgemental about men as they are about them. Women need to stop swallowing all of this put down and let these men know that they need to look good and think about their health too! Some obese men do have problems finding women too.
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Jorbia:
You said, “Sometimes Black American women fake orgasms or sexual pleasure with Black men in order to stroke the Black man’s ego. Women admit this to other women. Black women brag about what a Black man can do in bed for that same reason. So Black guys guys walk around thinking they’re so good in bed and White men believe the stereotypes.”
It is true that some women exaggerate a man’s performance in order to stroke his ego. Those women are not limited to black American women. If you read or hear the comments of 25 black women, that does not mean that the whole race of American black women do the same! The ones who do it do not do this to have a laugh. Who has that kind of time to waste? A tell-all wife who gets angry with her husband may joke about it with a friend, but a caring woman won’t do that. Many wives stroke their husband’s egos to encourage them to be comfident, thereby improving performance. Some men perform poorly because they worry about what the woman thinks, especially if they are lacking in measurements or have ED problems. Sensible women and men know that size is not as important as skill. They also know that couples who love each other and want to please, sometimes need a stroking of the ego and coaching when necessary. How are virgins and mostly inexperienced ones to know what to do unless they are guided? Don’t we praise our children for trying hard even if they do not perform well? That’s motivation.
White men with common sense have no reason to worry about the comparison of themselves and black men. Black women with common sense do not have to worry about the comparison of the sexuality of white women and themselves. Stereotypes and myths fly like birds in the sky! A constant exercise of common sense will dispel a lot of ignorant myths that lurk among modern-day people who are really superstitious! When couples love each other, things have a way of working out. People who look to another race for sex because of some rumor have real issues.
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This stuff doesn’t really matter. To me African American women are the same as any other group of women. They have the same complaints and desires concerning their men as other groups of women throughout the world. And they’re just as beautiful as any other group of women. The problem is the dating culture because it puts people together who are better suited never knowing one another.
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Dang! This is sad!
Although I read by age 55 only 13% of BW have never been married, an by age 35, 75% are married. I don’t know.
I like seeing black couples/black love.
I grew up in with a very uninvolved, in-and-out father and my parents fought all the time. I hardly think this is unique to black marriages, but in my mind I translated this as black love being an oxymoron.
I went to college and this black couple from church sort of ‘adopted’ me.
They were in their early forties with two children of their own, and the love they had for each other was inspiring. It was amazing seeing it. Kind of like how Americans viewed the Kennedys–without the curse, death, murder, an cheating of course, lol. It was the first time I saw a functioning black family—a functioning family (of any race!), period!
It is so nice to see because all you see in the media today is black dysfunction, and depending on your circumstance, that might be all you see in real life.
And I owe this family for saving me from just eating Ramen all the time during all 4 years of undergrad. I’m not sure how I would have survived without them, as I didn’t get much support from my mother (who thought I was destined to be a screw-up anyway).
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^ I love seeing black couples/ black love too. My parents have been married for 22 yrs and they do argue sometimes but they still love each other. and when one gets sick it really puts things into perspective of how much they need each other and look out for each other. They show nothing but black dysfunction in the media, but I don’t pay attention to that, as I see what functional black ppl look like everyday. We are not in control of the media, but we are in control of what we see and what we choose to spend our time on. Instead of WASTING time watching and listening to crap, we need to SPEND time watching and listening to positive images of ourselves. I see the youtube vids with black positivity have far less views than the ones cursing each other and degrading us. When are we going to stop watching and giving the dysfunctional black ppl a platform, and when are we going to start watching and giving support to the functional black ppl? Because when we pay most of our attention to the dysfunctional ones, ppl outside think they speak for us and represent us since they tend to have a larger following.
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Reblogged this on Green Grass and Tea Leaves and commented:
This post is pretty insightful and, to me, evidence of why black women should keep their options open if they wish to marry and start a family within that structure.
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Uhhh, maybe they forgot to list how black women behave. Many black men don’t want to deal with that. Their responses to things. Their customs.
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One reason black women don’t marry black men is because you can’t put your husband on child support.
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http://blackdemographics.com/households/marriage-in-black-america/
Preferences and biases aside, any logical person can read the stats and know that Black men and women are more likely to get married than whites, and only 10.9% of Black men marry out (which includes white and other non Black women), and the more than 88% marry Black women.
Black men are also more likely than Black women to be never married.
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@thwack didnt you get banned?
Also, ‘custody’ trumps marital status, if the husband doesnt live in the household he is eligible to be a child support obligor sp?
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@V8
He left of his on free will a little before he was about to get banned. I recommend ignoring him.
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@sharinalr INDEED!!!!
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In the culture I am familiar with, middle-class white Euro-American culture, marriage and child rearing are linked. It is viewed as normal for a man and woman to marry before having children and abnormal and in conservative communities, shameful to not marry before having children. I have more than one acquaintance who rushed to the alter before their girlfriend gave birth or shortly thereafter. My parents would have encouraged me to marry a girl I had impregnated even if we were not in love. You owe it to your children and their mother. Taking care of your family and marrying the mother of your children is normal, honorable, upright and expected thing to do in white society. In fact there is a certain prestige and back slapping associated with marriage, family and all that goes with it. A married man with kids, hard at work, is a trustworthy man.
In white society a woman who would have children, especially more than one out of wedlock is generally perceived as low-class and other words I won’t use.
Perhaps it could be posited that African-American culture and society places less pressure on men and women to marry before having children or at all. Along with all the other reasons for low African-American marriage rates, lack of social pressure may be on the list. If that is the case then the low African-American marriage rates are not just the fault of the individual but also the greater black community for not enforcing upright social customs.
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@biggiefriez
I am not sure what you know of black culture, but typically in the black community of the south or christian black community it is shameful and church settings are often used as the platform to shame said individuals.
The mindset of values do not change simply because the skin color changes. Growing up in a middle class black family did not mean my parents were any less strict on the idea of kids out of wedlock, but most parents realize that they can not force a marriage either. A realization that goes regardless of skin color as well.
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So is it safe for me to assume that you take fault for the white females that have kids out of wedlock? For the lack of ability for enforce upright social customs that would keep them out of that situation?
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@sharinalr
To your first post:
I am not very familiar with the African-American community as it is to itself. But when I read Abagond’s post I realized that in my experience marriage and children seemed to go hand in hand. Many people I know will live together for years, but rush to the alter when they decide to have kids or an accident occurs. I am also aware that the Black out-of-wedlock birthrate is high. I posited that one reason for low marriage rates may be correlated with a lack of social pressure to marry before or as a result of pregnancy.
That said, out of wedlock births may correlate more with socio-economic status than black/white. In other words, poor people may make different marriage choices than middle-class folk regardless of ethnicity. I don’t know, but thought I’d throw my idea out there as a point of discussion.
To your second post:
I wouldn’t ‘fault’ them, but I would lose trust in them. For me every relationship is about trust. I think having children out of wedlock for the typical man/woman is irresponsible and embarrassing. That someone would make that choice regardless of all the economic and social consequences, and including the impact on their children – impacts that are well documented, would reduce their trustworthiness to me. I act towards them the way a person might act towards someone who had made a decision about one of the most important aspects in life – the rearing and well-being of their children, and screwed it up. If a man would not marry the mother of his children and own up to that responsibility, what can he be trusted to do?
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@biggiefriez
“I don’t know, but thought I’d throw my idea out there as a point of discussion.”—That’s cool. Though I have heard that type argument before and often times it is one that comes from someone who may not be aware of the social pressures present. There are other factors that I believe come into play with the high out of wedlock rate of blacks and it is a factor that people seem to simply want to overlook.
The impact you speak of on these out of wedlock children are both positive and negative. So it is a matter of weighing the pros and cons, but it is not all negative and it solely depends on how the parent raises that child in situations. Having a father around is not always a prime plus for children either. Having an emotionally and physically abusive parent helps the child in what way? Because the parents are together does this situation automatically put the child in a better position than a single parent who loves them and is not emotionally or physically abusive?
“If a man would not marry the mother of his children and own up to that responsibility, what can he be trusted to do?”—-Though I agree, I also must recognize that it depends on the reason to why he is not marrying the mother of his children. Not every situation is cut and dry. For example if a child is the result of a guy cheating on his wife. Should he then divorce the wife to raise the child with the other woman in a married front? What of the other children with his original wife?
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And when I say people I mean it as something I myself was prone to overlook.
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@ sharinalr
I see your points and I appreciate your thoughtful response.
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The black woman is the most beautiful woman on the planet. Black man with a white woman will always come back to the black woman because of her beauty, and black woman know that. Our hair is versital we can do what we want, it’s all about style, we love our hair. So don’t get it rwisted, black women are not intemidated by white, Mexican or asian. We know our beauty will out last theirs and we do have our black man even if he’ with a white girl, all we have to do is call him and he’s at our door. Black men will forever love and protect the black woman, because she’s strong and truly understand him and he knows it. He’s just playing with the white, Mexican and Asian woman because they can’t resist his charm unlike white, Mexican and Asian men most of them lack charm and personality.
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Many black women wear rags on their heads in public view, are loud , boisterous, and confrontational in public . Many black women are verbally attempt to harass and annoy men , look to start arguments and problems everywhere they go . Many black women wear masculine clothing and as an example Timberland boots , mens pants , shirts and belts . Many also have illegitimate children before marriage and collectively as a whole . To a descent black man all of these qualities in a woman are very unattractive. Many black women are noticeably angry . And many people will testify that they have witnessed a black female lose their temper in a public setting . They will yell, curse, swear, and act violently and while driving automobiles use their cars as weapons to intimidate, disrespect, attempt to hurt , retaliate, and purposely inconvenience other motorists and pedestrians. Many black women are extremely overweight with two or more stomachs with good jobs education , gainfilly employed .
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@ another reason
The same could be said of White women. So what is your point?
Many black women…with good jobs education , gainfilly employed.
If Black women were the horrors you described above, they wouldn’t be educated or have “good” jobs (whatever that means).
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@ another reason
“Many black women are noticeably angry .”
Written by someone who is not a Black woman.
I just saw a video from one of my favorite natural hair content providers, Naptural85. In this video, “The Aftermath”, Naptural 85 describes the fallout of a recent hair campaign by Shea Moisture.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–6TeUc6WTM)
Shea Moisture built a multi-million dollar business on providing hair care products to Black Naturalistas. They recently decided to sell to women outside of the community. Their latest ad campaign featured White women and bi/multiracial women talking about their perceived hair issues (and why Shea Moisture would be great for them). The non-Black women in the ad used (appropriated) language that Black women recovering from European Beauty Standards use to express their hair journey. Missing from the ad——Black women with African textured hair.
When Black women responded with outrage at their exclusion, Shea Moisture, clumsily followed up with social media outreaches that pooh-poohed the concerns of their Black female customer base and featured only one Black woman. Featured in the outreach: Black men (?), White and Bi-racial women.
Respondents to Naptural 85’s video shared these comments:
Noticeably angry? I think there is cause for that anger.
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To the person whose name is too long to reiterate:
Get a life loser!
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Angry enough for you?
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Another group of men that I am not interested in romantically. I never felt any obligation to date and marry one (outside of my time in Black Nationalism) because my family is not African American and I didn’t grow up around them. So I haven’t ever been romantically linked with one. which is also due to my own doing. I am turned off by how colorist and misogynist so many of them are. To me, African American men are on the other side of the same coin as well as White American men.
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