Creoles, in the American sense of the word, are the French who founded New Orleans and Louisiana, whether they be white, black or mixed in colour. Many are part French, Spanish, African and Native American. Many light-skinned black Americans with French names are Creoles. Among other things, Creoles gave us jazz, zydeco, Mardi Gras, the paper bag test, the old New Orleans and creole cooking. Audubon was Creole. Beyonce is part Creole.
Creoles are not the same as Cajuns. The Cajuns are French too, but they came to Louisiana later, coming from Canada. They are whiter and more country.
Creole roots go back not to the four Englands that created America, but back to the Caribbean, France and even Senegal in Africa, back even to the Mali empire. They are Latin, not Anglo. That is why the old New Orleans is in some ways more like Havana or Rio than New York or Chicago. That is why it does not seem like such a grey place.
The Creoles were a separate people in the 1700s and 1800s. They were Catholic and spoke French, not English. But these days most have become ordinary Americans.
Where Americans came in two main colours – black and white – Creoles came in three colours: black, white and mixed. Like in Brazil, they did not follow the One Drop Rule. Between the white Creoles at the top and the dark-skinned slaves at the bottom was a broad middle made up of free people of colour.
Most mixed Creoles were not slaves but free. They were shopkeepers, dressmakers, silversmiths and traders. They owned houses and could read. Many had been sent to France to get an education. In war they fought under their own commanding officers. These are the people who would later give the world jazz music.
But they were not completely equal to whites: they could not vote or hold public office; they could not marry a white person or sit in the white part of the opera house.
There were not many white women in Louisiana in the old days. Yet white Creole men thought quadroon women, who were one-fourth black, were very beautiful. Often a white man in his 20s would take a quadroon lover, buy her a house, have children by her and support the family. This was known as plaçage (rhymes with massage). Later in his 30s he might marry white and have a second family. If he did not, then his wealth would go to his mixed children.
Creole law saw slaves as humans while American law saw them as property. Under Creole law a slave could take his master to court or even earn money and buy his freedom.
Napoleon sold Louisiana to America in 1803 to raise money for his wars. It was largely left alone till the late 1800s. Then white Americans started to take over. They brought in their One Drop Rule. Some Creoles stayed and became black Americans or Cajuns. Others moved away, especially to Texas, California and Chicago.
See also:
If you travel to the small winward islands (caribbean) you will hear the east indian descendants calling black african descendants ” you kreyol”
you find this term has alternative meanings everywhere.
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Right, the word has different meanings in different places. That is why I was careful to say “in the American sense”. (Although “America” itself is one of those words too…)
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Thanks for the short history of the Creoles in the US. Their stories need to be read by Americans. America has a far more diverse cultures than we are willing to admit.
I’m not Creole, but I do appreciate their culture and their varied contributions to American life.
Thank you so much, Abagond. You’re the man!
Stephanie B.
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I am glad you liked it. It does show how narrow America is in how it is used to thinking of itself.
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this is an awsome site i will tell all my friends bout it :]
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Interesting article about “Creole” in New Orleans. My only visits to U.S. have been to New York and Atlanta, there might be something for me to explore in New Orleans: creole history and culture. I’m from the Caribbean, and presently teaching 16-year old girls in the Netherlands. I’m surprised that many of my “creole” students born and raised in Europe didn’t even know they were creole, until I told them. I consider myself to be creole (I’m mixed African-Chinese-European-Amerindian-Jewish) according to the way this identity is used in my home country: Surinam. Among older Surinames people, being creole, refers to being a mix of different cultures, one of them being African. When I look in the mirror I see a creole woman, In the Netherlands people identify my looks als Asian.
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Wow.
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do that means peoples like “lisa raye, chante moore, al b sure, raven symone, cece peniston, & christopher williams are to.
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Maybe, maybe not. You would have to know more about them.
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A side note that says something about US cultural history.
The Confederate General and Louisiannan, Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard, was a creole and was described in contemporary press accounts as having a French creole father and an unnamed “Italian” mother.
Interesting.
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This is very good! I like your blog. You seem to provide more than rants and raves about race and use it as an opportunity to provide information. Yes, creole does for the most mean different things in different countries. However, it is used most often to refer to the mixed race people of that country. An east Indian calling what someone referred to as “black” African Descendant does so because in any country where slavery took place, a person was no longer considered African when born on the native soil of that land as well.
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That is right: the Spanish and French used the word creole to mean someone not born in the motherland – in the New World. It was applied to people regardless of race.
I am glad you like my blog.
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Interesting post.
I have to make some corrections: Ciara Harris, the R&B singer, is basic African American, not of a Creole background.
I don’t believe Christina Milian, Lisa Bonet and Amel Larrieux are either. In fact, I don’t think many of the celebs you posted are actually of the Creole culture for a fact. Like, undisputably.
Not all “Creoles” would be described as “light skinned” either.
Take the Babineaux brothers for examples, they both play in the NFL.
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I will review my list. Thanks. You are right about dark-skinned Creoles.
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Dinah Shore is a Russian Jew so she’s not Creole…
Garcelle Beauvais is Haitian though she speaks Kreyole..
those two for sure i know are not part of the new orleans definition of creole…
the word creole means mixture…that’s why some languages are considered creole like haitian kreyole or sierra leone creole and belize creole…just means the language is a mixture of 2 or more other languages…
though i’d correct your mistakes!!
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Dinah Shore:
http://creoleneworleans.typepad.com/photos/famous_creoles_of_today/dinahshore_creole.html
Garcelle Beauvais:
http://creoleneworleans.typepad.com/photos/famous_creoles_of_today/garcelle_beauvaiscreole.html
Ciara:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1733488/bio
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Ciara ain’t Creole. She’s an African American girl from Georgia.
The internet is not that reliable when it comes to information on celebrities. Many fans (and sometimes, publicists) actually type that information.
Unless, it comes from a reliable source or even better, out of the celeb’s mouth, I can’t help but disbelieve it.
We live in a world full of lies.
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True. I will have to go back over the list, maybe just limiting it to what the Wikipedia says. The Wikipedia is not perfect either, but is better vetted than most of the Internet.
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Ciara Harris is indeed of Creole heritage. So is Phylicia Rashad, Debbie Allen, Amel Larrieux. The problem today is that many people don’t know their own history or are ashamed of being labeled “anti black” I am Creole and b/c of internal racism I hid behind other ethnicities. Mayor Nagin of NOLA appears to be ashamed of or ignorant of his Creole heritage too.
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How do you know that Harris is indeed of Creole hertiage? Has she ever said so?
And no, Amel is not. She never made any mention of it when explaining her racial heritage. Stowell is her maiden name.
The Allen sisters? Prove it, from a REAL source, not a generic one.
Nogan is Creole? Again, has he ever said so?
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Just chiming in here, as I stumbled upon your blog.
I agree with mynameismyname’s comments about the internet sometimes not being a reliable source, and disagree with the comment that “Most light-skinned black Americans with French names are Creoles”. Without really knowing one’s ancestral background you really can’t make that distinction.
That would apply to all of the other people on your list, at least when it came to American Creoles.
Nagin was born in the 7th Ward of N.O. where many Creoles who had ancestors from the West Indes resided, but again, one would have to know more of his ancestors to really make that distinction.
One of the most important factors that many people leave out when defining American Creoles are cultural traditions. It’s not just about “race”. Many of these cultural traditions tied to the Creole culture and heritage have to do with religion. Mainly, the Catholic religion. Although some Creoles today don’t follow Catholicism, the traditions that many Creoles followed years ago, still hold together and keep the Creole community alive today.
But thank you for posting about a unique heritage that is often ignored and misrepresented.
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I am still up in the air what to do about the list. Does any one know of any rock-solid reputable list of Creoles?
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I’m just reading Feast of All Saints, and I agree that this historical period/heritage needs a lot more attention. Keep up the good work.
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Thanks.
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To Mynameismyname:
That’s the problem today. Many of these people don’t know their heritages and the younger they are, the more lost they are. I thank my late parents continuously for keeping me enmeshed in my cultural background.
A young girl like Ciara Harris wouldn’t know her heritage unless her own parents told her. One of the problems I’ve seen in my own family is when the menfolk marry non-Creole Black women who refuse to acknowledge, much less teach the children anything about both sides of their heritage.
The Allen sisters you could look up for yourself…their father was a musician and their mother was a teacher and both parents are of Creole legacy.
As to proving one’s cultural connections, why is it so difficult to imagine these brown people could bear ethnicities other than of African, or indeed, besides African blood?
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To NWellington:
You wrote regarding the 7th Ward in NOLA. The Old Guard French Creoles of NOLA, of which I proudly hail, had ancestry that originated from FRANCE, not the Caribbean. Later, French and Spanish wedded and still much later, Native Indian blood. Today, there are many younger Creoles with African ancestry because of French Creoles intermarrying with non-Creole Blacks. Not only has the French-ancestored bloodline been compromised but the language, customs, and traditions have all but disappeared. What you have now is a hybrid version of French Creoles, hence today the term Creole. In many sectors, they are little more than Blacks with French surnames and perhaps uttering an endearment or two left over from hearing their grandparents dialoging. Many true French Creole descendants have long left NOLA and settled in other communities where the culture is thriving and others immersing themselves into other cultures and/or races.
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Mary Allen,
I’ve stated many times in various comments on this blog that most, if not damn near all, black Americans (and blacks of the New World all together) are “mixed” genetically. Even when some would merely make suggestions of a black individual NOT having any non-African blood because of the hue of their skin, I would correct them.
The reason why I’m doubtful of anything I read about anyone, particulary about someone famous, is because of all of the lies and propoganda out there. Not too many verifiable facts, but lots of insinuation, blind assumptions and blatant lies. I have a very journalistic mindset so I’m versed in the mentality of “If someone tells me the sky is blue, I still have to check it out for myself”.
Harris has never been quoted discussing her ethnic background. A year or two ago, out of the blood, there were info about her being “Creole” on the internet. No verifiable sources. Just out of the blue. If I were just to merely go with that, I’d also go with the nasty internet rumor of her being a hermaphrodite that circulated in the beginning of her career.
I can find no mention of the Allen sisters being of a “Creole” background either. I did find out about their brother, Tex, being a musician. Nothing about their supposed ethnic background. I do know that the Allen family moved to Mexico during their childhood to escape the harsh anti-black racism of their homestate of Texas back in the ’50s and ’60s. That explains why they’re so proficient in Spanish.
Again, I’m not about doubting anyone’s culture but make sure that it’s truthful, not just hearsay or mere assumption.
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Mynameismyname:
Ms. Harris is just one of a slew of young people who are currently clueless about their ancestry. That is unfortunate, for them. You will not hear her speak of what she has not been taught. Let’s not forget the foolish utterance of Beyonce Knowles a while back and she is of Creole lineage – markedly through her mother she has French and Native Indian bloodlines. Then there is the young woman who is married to the baseball player, Sheffield is his last name, as well as the young woman who is engaged to the football player, Terrell Owens. Both are what we call “stomp-down” Creoles and yet, they aren’t aware of their heritages because they haven’t been taught it.
The Allen sisters parents both came from Louisiana. After the parents divorce, the mother moved to Houston and from there to Mexico.
You will find that Mexico is no stranger to Creoles…my own grandmother was born there and I have much family there now. There is also a section in Houston that is home to a Creole community – and in northern California and in Florida.
I can only write of my own cultural history and those of my culture that I know of. I do not make assumptions about strangers nor do I care for hearsay.
In the entertainment arena: Chante Moore, Sabrina LeBeouf, Lisa Richon, Sheila E., Vanity, and Prince are but a few I remember during my time who “came in through the cracks” so to speak. Some of them made themselves over for their careers and others floundered not knowing what they were doing. You might wonder about Prince but I happen to know him personally and he is Creole, hence his taste in women. There are some Creole men who will not compromise. My brothers didn’t. One married a Creole and another is married to a Mexican. My sister and I married African American men and we are both of the Protestant faith…both of my brothers are still practicing Catholics.
All of my life I have observed the bigotry that is America. When you are mixed, you are not accepted by any side. Even for those cowards who “pick a side” there is never full acceptance. But you do the best you can. That is why my vote is for Obama. He understands because he’s been there and notice who he married.
Which brings me to another topic: why do so many Black women hate this couple? You would think that the greater majority of them would be jumping to the moon as they are always stating how useless and awful the brothers are. And here you have a handsome, well-educated lightskin brother of mixed parentage married to a darkskin Black woman and there’s no love or little love from the Black community!?
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Mary Allen,
Black women love Michelle Obama! I always believed that she’s one of the reasons a segment of black women really took to Barack: his strong black wife. I’ve never heard any negative feedback about the Obamas as a family. And is Michelle any “darker” than the average black American woman?
Obama always said that he was black. He’s lived the black experience, that’s for sure. In his autobio, he said that at the age of 14, he stopped telling whites about his mother.
You know Prince Rogers Nelson personally? If he does have a “Creole” background, why does he play it down? He falsely said that he was “half Italian” in the beginning of his career.
And more importantly, what’s he like in real life? 😉 Inquiring minds want to know.
Vanity’s father is black American, right? I know that her mother was a German immigrant. Again, why would she play that down?
DeLeon Richards is Garry Sheffield’s wife. I’ve seen her parents, they “look” like regular black Americans. Her mother is a big time realtor. And T.O. broke up his engagment about 2 or 3 years ago with th woman you are referring to.
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I can buy that Prince is Creole. He makes more sense that way.
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Mynameismyname,
Some Black women love Michelle Obama and I’m one of them also. However, let’s be honest here, shall we? Most AA women were voting for Clinton when she was running against Obama for the Dem. nominee post. In one article I read an AA public figure stated that she “had nothing in common with Michelle” and there were other such comments. Most Black women were rooting for Clinton even as the media were excluding them in their press reportings! In lieu to Michelle’s complexion, let’s be factual again. AA are no different than minorities everywhere in preferring light coloring over its darker hue. Telling the truth is difficult for most people to hear and for others to stick to. Colorism issues will always be the elephant in the corner.
Prince and Vanity are coming from the same era as myself and multiculturalism wasn’t in during those years. Diversity in corporate America was brand new as it was in just about every other arena. I truly think that the Latin explosion aided Creoles and those of mixed lineages in that we are now freer to be “who we are” without having to dilute any of ourselves. However, I do think it’s easier being perceived as “biracial” or “mixed” than if you state your Creole, as the following example will attests.
DeLeon Richards is a Creole. Her first name is a tribute to one of her parent’s ancestry(like Beyonce’s) I am always amused (if not sadden)by Black people who write, “look” like regular black Americans” in response to another Black person’s ethnicity if they are Creole or mixed. What do regular Blacks look like anyway? We all have distinctly different facial features, skintones, hair colorings and textures, heights, weights? The statement you made shows an inner bias, an internal struggle with self, in acknowledging that another Black person’s lineage isn’t 100% African ethnicity. It’s akin to the uproar many Blacks made when Tiger Woods spoke of being “Cabalasian” or whatever. I laughed and thought it was cute but most Blacks went ballistic. The man is half-Asian…why should he deny it?
This isn’t new history to race in America. The greater majority of Blacks are mixed racially and/or culturally. My children are half Black and half Creole ethnically. One of them is currently seriously dating a Mexican. If they marry, the bloodline of my mother’s heritage will come full circle. One of my other children is dating a Caribbean from Barbados and I feel another circle would be in the making.
Another reason for voting for Obama. He gets it! This country is one of diversity and it’s not just European American diversity but African, Latino, Asian, and Native Indian as well. America for all!
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Abagond,
🙂 You ever notice that Prince has never offered up explanation or apology for his selections of lightskin mixed Black and nonBlack women artists? Nor have Black women crucified him in women’s periodicals for his choice of girlfriends and marriage partners. If the Black media has ever voiced an interest, I’ve never heard about it. Nor have I read anything regarding reproach or reprisal regarding Prince by brothers. But then again, neither have the males in my own family who have dated and married everything but what “Mynameismyname” calls “regular looking Black” women. Double standards? I think darker brothers are set to a harsher criteria than their lighter counterparts. But this is where we confront another reality regarding colorism in our society and within our communities.
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Mary Ellen,
First off,
When I stated that Richards and her family looked like a “regular black Americans”, I was basically saying that they don’t fit the stereotype of what the minority of people who know or care about LA “Creoles” expect them to look like. They expect them to look “white”. Of course, I know that black people AROUND THE WORLD do not have a single look. I HAVE EMPHASIZED THAT IN SO MANY POSTS ON THIS VERY SITE.
Where in the hell do you get the weird idea that I have an “inner bias” or have a hard time excepting that most black Americans are not purely African?!?! I’ve stated sooo many times that black Americans, as well as most western blacks, despite appearances, are not a full-blooded African “race” of people. When I said that the Richards’ clan looked like “regular black Americans” (which they do, they wouldn’t stand out), where I did say that they don’t look 100% African, when you and I know both damn well that the vast majority of black Americans ARE NOT. That would redundant.
“Internal struggle of self” …LOL, baby, you’re a laugh riot.
Per Prince, I read in a biography that both of his late parents were transplants from Louisana, which corresponds with your claim. “Racial ambugity” was IN during the 1980’s, hence Prince falsely portraying himself as a product of an interracial marriage early in his career. Hence, Vanity’s allure. So, I don’t get why they’d want to “hide” part of their heritage. Since most Americans undoubtably don’t know and/or don’t care about Louisana “Creoles”, why not sell that as an “exotic” (i.e. ‘different’) selling point since racial ambugity was part of their appeal anyway?
Part of Prince’s overall sthick was “ambugity” hence the portrayal of coming from an interracial marriage and of course, most famously, his androgyny. That was part of the whole reasoning for his public adoration of racially ambigious women. That’s for sure. Yet, of the few black women who Prince was affiliated with (Vanity, Troy Beyer, Jill Jones, Cat Glover, Nona Gaye, Patrice Rushen, Tamar, the Nigerian model from the “Black Sweat” video, etc.), they don’t all fit the “light skinned mixed” mode either. But then again, anyone who knows Prince’s style knows that the “racially ambigious” women he used was defintely part of his sthick.
And YES, he did get LOTS of flack about his use of numerous non-black women. I remember reading about it in Nelson George’s The Death of Rhythm & Blues. And once, in an interview with Morris Day, that was also mentioned. I remember hearing an interview with Erica Kennedy, a former music journalist and she cited Prince as her all time favorite subject. She memorably said that Prince’s request to the magazine that she was working for was to “have a black female journalist” interview him or he wouldn’t do the interview at all.
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Mary Allen,
I see that you have a thing with color.
Then again, that’s very embedded within “Creole” culture, as well as in Louisana culture overall. So, that’s very predictable of you.
You’re mention of Michelle’s color was a tip off of that as well as your comments about “darker men” and “lighter men”. Who asked you all of that? Most black Americans are not lightly complexioned, hence why I asked you if Michelle is any “darker” than the average black woman. I didn’t ask you about who prefers what. But then again, I know that within that Louisana “Creole” culture, color is a bigger attribute, it holds more value and influences who you marry, associate with, etc. So, again, your comments about Michelle defintely made sense.
No offense, but it’s expected of someone.
Speaking of Michelle, where did you get that most black American women were voting for Clinton in the primaries, when the vast majority of black Demos have been pro-Obama since then???? Go on the internet, there’s shrines dedicated to this women on many black female sites, that’s just one testament to how many black American love this woman.
Again, your claim of blacks “preferring light coloring” and what not is defintely informed by your environment and your culture. That’s all a matter of locality and upbringing. Personally, I’ve never, ever had any “preference” for any race, let alone something as insignificant as “coloring”. Neither did any of my family or believe it or not, MOST (not all) of the black folks I’ve ever known. Their ACTIONS have drove that home. But then again, I don’t live in a state where there was an ingrained (and some say, still present) race/color hierarchy like Louisana, so maybe that informs my opinion of that particular suitation, like your locality and culture informs yours.
One last thing, as I stated on another post on here, the reason why lots of black are dismissive of another black person who claims “other” is because of the long history of people trying to escape the societal stigma of being black. There’s many lies about various famous people’s ethnic backgrounds, hence why I was very skeptical about some of your celeb examples. Not because they look like “regular black Americans”. And you and I know damn well, how some people will attempt to be seen as anything other than “black”. Being of the culture you’re from, I’m sure you know that about lots of people.
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One more last thing (LOL),
What cave do you live in?
Why did Harold Ford, Jr.’s run for Senate go kaput a while ago?
If you answered, that it had a lot to do with his taste in white Nordic women, you’d be correct. Per, the “Call Me Harold” TV ads.
Do black women fume on various internet boards and in various other written venues about the mainly-white dating history of Derek Jeter?
A big yes.
Did Ice-T ever ardently defend his marriage to his white plastic-surgery-victim wife “Coco” to a black media source when asked about much of the flack he got from lots of black women?
Yes.
Last question, if Obama was married to a white woman, do you think he would be where he is?
I can answer that, Hell no. Black women would have a fit and white folks would never approve of a black politican with a white wife. (I’m sure you might bring up a few rare exceptions but let’s be real.)
See, no one gives a flying f*** that those brothas (and they are only a few examples) are considered by many to be, as you put it, “light skin”, or in some cases, a product of an interracial marriage themselves. No, they still saw another black man w/ a white woman. So, I had to counter that claim of yours that suggested the opposite. It’s simply not true. But then again, your opinion is largely based on your locality and very color-conscious culture.
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Mynameismyname,
1st Post: Most people who either have lived or worked in or studied La. Creole history know that its a diverse culture much like Latino culture. And like Latino culture, Creoles can be Caucasian, Spanish, Native, Asian or African.
On Prince: 🙂
2nd Post: I’m around well-educated, professional Black women all the time. Maybe where your at they were/are pro-Michelle but you should do your research outside of your area and you need to read more than Essence and Jet. Some major papers like the NYTimes had prominent Blacks debasing the Obamas. What do you read? The one shining example I am most proud of is when AKA gave Michelle honorary status as a soror. However, the fact remains that NOT every Black was/is for Obama and Michelle. Eric Dyson is for Obama and his wife was for Clinton. I don’t know who she currently favors now or are you going to tell me something differently when I watched/heard them share their positions on tv?
On Louisiana: My experiences with Black America comes through my various studied interactions outside of my native state, so please don’t take them personally. I’m no more or less color conscious than anyone else. I have my preferences, just like most everyone but they don’t color (pardon the pun) my assessment of peoples characters and behaviors.
On being Black: there are darkskin latinos, aren’t there? Why would you insist on calling them what they don’t ascribe to? Race is a social construct. People usually define themselves by their cultural affiliations, heritages, traditional influences, religious persuasions, etc. Personally, I don’t want someone to be lumped with me if they don’t want to be. Go where you want to be. That’s the Creole mindset.
Post 3: You named Harold Ford, Ice-T, and Derek Jeter (all lightskin and Jeter is mixed) with white women but what about the darker brothers with white wives like Tiger Woods, Ty Diggs and Seal? You only seem concern about who the lightskin brothers bed. hahaha Why would Black women care who Black men dated/married when they are doing the same thing themselves? This is hypocrisy! Look at Maya Angelou, Sonia Sanchez, Janet Lockhart, Whoopi Goldberg, Lynn Whitfield, Gabrielle Beauvais, Halle Berry, Kerry Washington, Paula Patton and so many others. And poor Oprah with her eternal boy toy…that’s a parody if ever I saw one.
If Obama was married to a white woman he probably would have won the nomination with no interference from Clinton…isn’t Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court and his wife is white! In fact, the late Thurgood Marshall had a nonBlack wife as well. So much for rare exceptions, uh?
My opinion is largely based on the world around me which is outside of the pretense your trying so hard to get over with here. The world has developed into a very multicultural, multidiverse, multiethnic place and it’s about time. It’s a world I feel very comfortable in. It’s a world in which I can move without limitations of “color-consciousness” imposed on me by racist mindsets or crab-in-the-basket mentalities.
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Mary Allen,
I know about the various races of Creoles and Cajuns. You didn’t have to inform me of something that I already know.
Of course, not all blacks for the Obamas. Just the OVERWHELMING majority. Where do you get that I get my info from Essence and Jet? (Two magazines I rarely read). Isn’t that a tad racist to make that rather dumb assumption?
As far as racial identification, as you correctly stated, race is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. So, society chooses your race, no matter who ‘tag’ you give yourselves. There are many Latinos of African descent, yes, and even if they don’t think of themselves as “black”, they still have to deal with the perceptions and consquences of others who indeed will label them as such.
You’re not that dense are you? I named Jeter, Ford, Ice T and others as examples to counter your weird idea that “light skin” black men are somehow exampt from any flack for dating non-black women than most other black men. You know damn well what I meant. Or did you? 😉
Yes, Thomas and Marshall are rare exceptions that I knew you would name!
Most black politicans throughout history and more importantly, in modern times, have BLACK wives. You know that. And you’re bugging if you think Obama would have flown through with a white wife. Seriously.
I’m not trying to push anything. You just made some odd statements that contradict themselves. You claim that we live in a very multiethnic, comfortable world yet that is not confined by the limits of “color consciouness” yet you color-code blacks and talk about the “preferences” of those you’ll never know. Isn’t that a contradiction?
I’m sorry you feel that I’m racist or have a crab-in-the-basket mentality. I’m very much the opposite. Yet, it’s possible that our views of the world have a lot to do w/ which world we live in: different ones.
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Thomas and Marshall were judges. Unlike Obama, they did not have to win the votes of millions of blacks and whites to get to where they are (were). For the most part they just had to win the favour of one white man (the president), who, if anything, might feel more comfortable with a black man who had married outside his race.
Obama, on the other hand, would be no where if he had a white wife. To get to where he is now, he had to first put down roots in Black America – something he did not have growing up in Hawaii with his white grandparents. Thus the Southside of Chicago. Thus Michelle. Thus Trinity and Reverend Wright. Even as it is there are people who say he is not “black enough”. How would it be if he had a white wife living in a white suburb? His black support would not have been as strong and Hillary would have won the nomination.
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“The world has developed into a very multicultural, multidiverse, multiethnic place and it’s about time. It’s a world I feel very comfortable in. It’s a world in which I can move without limitations of “color-consciousness” imposed on me by racist mindsets or crab-in-the-basket mentalities.”
Wow, I only wish that were true.
I am not sure where you live, Mary Ellen (did you tell us?), but at least New York, as liberal as it is, has not reached that point.
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Prince is attracted to a certain kind of woman and I understand that and can respect it. That is just the way he is. Yet I did notice how unself-conscious he was about his choice in women.
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Abagond, in response to the last three comments: Thank you so much. You hit right on the head. I knew that I wasn’t being unreasonable, unrealistic or crazy with my previous responses to Mary Allen.
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Abagond,
It is interesting how we as a people always evade reality. Blacks would not have voted against Marshall and they didn’t vote against Thomas or didn’t you watch any of his hearings???
Blacks aren’t the majority in the U.S. so their votes alone didn’t pull Obama’s victory over Clinton which was very close. I guess you don’t know of the members of the Black Caucus who were adamantly against Obama in favor of Clinton??? By that same note, I guess you also don’t know of the whites who were/are in favor of Obama????!
You wrote: “Obama, on the other hand, would be no where if he had a white wife. To get to where he is now, he had to first put down roots in Black America – something he did not have growing up in Hawaii with his white grandparents. Thus the Southside of Chicago. Thus Michelle. Thus Trinity and Reverend Wright.”
Are you inferring that he’s using Black Americans to get into the White House? Should Black Americans, and indeed all Americans, be concerned about this man’s real goals?
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Abagond,
I have visited NYC on several occasions while on the East Coast and absolutely love the vitality and excitement of the place! I also love the mix of cultures and peoples. It’s a wonderful blending pot of humanity!
Prince is stomp-down Creole and he will live life on his own terms. That is the Creole mindset.
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New York is all those things, but it is also profoundly racist, even if in some ways it is less racist than much of the country.
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Blacks would not have voted against Marshall, true. I am not so sure about Thomas if it was put to a nationwide vote. Because of Thomas the viewpoint of blacks, one-eighth of the country, has no voice on the highest court in the land. Some blacks are conservative Republicans a la Thomas, but most are not.
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I doubt Obama is “using” Michelle, the Southside or Rev Wright in order to get to the White House. From my understanding of him, it came from his sense of rootlessness that his upbringing gave him.
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Of course Obama needed white support to get this far. Anyone would. But if his black support was weaker he would not have won. If he had a white wife, most blacks still would have supported him, sure, but not to the same degree. Meanwhile it would not have gained him enough points among white voters to make up the difference.
And it is very possible that Obama will win or lose in November on the strength or weakness of black voter turnout.
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Mynameismyname,
I am glad you are informed about Creoles. We are good people and we have endured a very long time in this country. I think mostly because we tend to blend in wherever we are.
Yes, it is the overwhelming majority of Black America that is for Obama and that is good but he will need numbers from the Latins (who are closing in, if they haven’t already, as the largest minority group) and white Americans as well to defeat the Republicans. Let’s not forget that there are Black Republicans, Independents, and half-steppers…
Educated Americans stopped “tagging” people based on visual perception awhile ago because of the enormous ethnic diversity in this country. Unless I self-identify as a Black American, you cannot “tag” me until I say so. That’s a fact, not an assumption.
I still think you were being a hypocrite, regardless of how you attempt to explain yourself. My view is that we all have our preferences and that should be respected. Who I desire to lie with is my own personal right and not for the general public’s approval or disapproval. I find it ludicrous that anyone in this day and age should dictate who someone else can date or marry based on their personal bias, prejudices, and/or hates. That is wrong.
My husband is an African American of supposedly non-mixed background who looks very much like a lightskin Latino as does his parents. When we met I thought he was Creole or Latino. I would not have been interested in him had he been darker because I don’t care for dark men as romantic partners. That is my preference and always has been. Our children of course look like us. Now, my best girlfriend is darker than burnt cocoa and has been my best girlfriend since college. We pledged together, had our first apartments together, stood in each other’s weddings, christened each other’s babies, and just been there for each other for over 25 years now. I tell you this because I am not a hypocrite and never have been. I like who I like and that’s that. I don’t have a stream of darkskin women in my life. She’s the only one but she’s my best friend. She knows me like no one else but God and my husband. My business partner is white and we have known each other since we were teenagers. She is the one who gave me the “tag name” I’m using which is sort of an acronym for my real name. It’s very old French so I doubt if you would ever guess it.
Yes, we do live in different worlds, you and I. I am fortunate I get to see all sides of the world, not just the narrowly focused view of my own construction. I want Obama to win this election because if he doesn’t I believe a Latino will win the next one. This country is headed in that direction and there are people in place right now who will attempt to make it a reality. As Obama keeps reiterating: it’s time for a Change!
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Abagond,
It is unfortunate that the Black Caucus at that time wanted a Black man in the Supreme Court so badly they didn’t heed public admonishments to investigate his political record more closely, nor did they honor Anita Hill’s testimony.
I agree that most Blacks aren’t Republican but the NYTimes, Los Angeles and Philadelphia papers were running articles regarding young Black professionals who were tooting the Republican horn based on 40 year old statistics! It would have been amusing had it not been so sad.
Regarding voter turnout, I do pray that the numbers of black voters who haven’t registered improve because it’s been stated in newspaper articles that there are 10% of whites who will racistly vote against Obama for no other reason than that he’s Black. So yes, we do need to get serious about this election.
He had an ad on Spanish television recently – I believe it was Univision but it may have been Galavision – and he was speaking spanish, not an interpreter. I tell you I am more impressed with the man everyday!
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Abagond,
I like New York so please don’t spoil it for me. 🙂
I have a sister who lives in Westchester and it is very nice there. I usually visit her in the springtime so I can walk in the neighborhood. Lovely cherry blossom trees…or at least, they look like cherry blossoms to me.
My other sister lives in New Rochelle. It’s what they call a bedroom community. Do you live near these places? They are lovely towns.
It is so cold on the East Coast I don’t know how people survive, especially in upper New York, thinking of Buffalo and Syracuse. I visited a lovely town called Watertown a few years ago. It was in August and it was chilly! The one place I don’t care for in New York so far is the Bronx. I’ve been there twice (work-related) and both times I couldn’t wait to get out of there. The congestion, the crowds, the crazy traffic! Brooklyn is okay…I don’t care for Staten Island either. Manhattan I love.
Ok…I’m getting tired. I have an early day tomorrow. I am thinking of retiring but I would go crazy with boredom and besides, I love traveling and meeting people. Good night and God be with you!
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Mary Allen,
Thanks for your comment.
Trust me, I have seen much of the world, lots of it. Not my own “construction”. I’ve lived all over this ol’ country of ours. I’ve been outside the U.S. My take on this world is based on having an unbiased view, observing and relating to people individually. I’m one of the most open people you’ll ever meet.
How am I being hypocritical? Hypocritical about what? I don’t care about someone else’s “preferences”. Seriously. Unless they are paying my bills, why do I care?
It was obvious from your previous posts that color is a bigger attribute in people for you than it is for many others. That’s fine. It’s informed by your culture. I’m not judging you. At least, your honest about your biases. Personally, for me and many of the people around me, color and race overall, plays a much smaller role in who I allow and don’t allow in my life.
And you’re bugging if you don’t think that Americans don’t “tag” people by race, educated or not. Be real. By admitting your obvious color biases, you obviously do. In the climate that our country is in, it’s hard not to.
NYC is a wonderful city. Yet Aba is right, for all it’s liberal “aura”, it’s just as racist as anywhere else, if not more.
And yes …it’s cold up North. It’s September and I’m already seeing people with jackets! 🙂
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Mynameismyname,
Good morning. As a fellow traveler I salute you. I enjoy traveling myself. My husband and I annually plan trips with our family, both locally and abroad to get our children interested in and aware of the world around them.
My color preferences are based on the population of people I was born and grew up amongst. In that respect, I am no different than any other culture that has lived exclusively in homogamy for several ongoing generations, like the Geechee in South Carolina. Did you know they have a Bible translation in their own language now? I want to get one for my home collection because it’s a valuable piece of African American history. A history that is also enduring and evolving.
I don’t “tag” people by race professionally or personally because I work in a very racially and ethnically diverse landscape. Our strengths and weaknesses interplay each other in unique and wonderful ways.
However, in my personal life I am very private and with the exception of my best friend there isn’t a lot of room for diversity. Yes, I’ll admit that much. However, that does not mean I do not support programs for the socially, economically, intellectually, and racially disadvantaged. It does not mean I abide by racist business tactics or policies and doctrines.
Yes, racism is everywhere and almost everyone has their own particular brand of prejudice. It’s how they dress it up and present it that can be illuminating, interesting, amusing, thought-provoking, or just plain disgusting.
Yes, the weather is turning. I took out my lined trenchcoats this week. I don’t do cold weather well and my husband says we might have to be in Boston for the winter. I don’t support PETA because I love and collect furs. It is my one vice besides my jewelry. 🙂
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Mary Ellen, you said:
“Educated Americans stopped “tagging” people based on visual perception awhile ago because of the enormous ethnic diversity in this country. Unless I self-identify as a Black American, you cannot “tag” me until I say so. That’s a fact, not an assumption.”
Wow. Where and when did this start? It seems it has not reached New York yet, where if you look black then you are black. It is not a personal decision. Just ask the widow of Sean Bell.
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Abagond,
Don’t be ridiculous! Of course! And she is not the kind of example I meant and you know it. Let’s drop this because as I stated earlier, some Black folks like to evade realism and that’s fine with me. However, not ALL Blacks encounter racism and racist behavior on a daily basis and I’m speaking of Black people…not mixed, not biracial, not lightskin but your normal people.
And yes, for myself and others like me, unless I self-identify as Black, you will not know it. Isn’t that one of the main reasons that some Blacks don’t care for very mixed people, because we can assimilate out of our Blackness if we so choose?
And before you get hysterical about the question, just remember that most of us, no matter how light or mixed or whatever, tend to stay within the ‘race’ So while I may cling to my Creole culture I also cling just as tenaciously to the African American “tag.” Not because I have to but because I want to. It’s called racial pride and you don’t have to be darkskin, wear kente cloth or marry into a dark family to possess it.
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Mary Allen,
“Some Black folks like to evade realism” …with a lot of your posts on this thread, you were sounding like one of ’em!
But you’ve redeemed yourself with the rest of your previous message though.
You’re right, black pride has nothing to do with physical appearance or where you live. It’s all about culture.
Unless you look white or non-black however, no black person will ever truly assimilate into white America. Ever. But you’re right some blacks do have resentment towards blacks who look like they can.
And you’re right, not ALL blacks experience stifling racism and racial discrimination. I admit that it’s rare for me to and I’m one of those “normal” black people you were referring to. But it doesn’t mean that I’m “bulletproof”. Neither are you or anyone else. True racism today is less social and more insitutional. That’s the real discrimination happens and no non-white is exempt. No matter what.
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Mary Ellen:
“I want Obama to win this election because if he doesn’t I believe a Latino will win the next one.”
Can you explain why you believe that a Latino will win the next presidential election?
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Mynameismyname,
I agree with your last statement: racism for minorities is institutional and it has been for a very long time. That’s why I am proud of Black and Hispanic fraternities and organizations that are pro-actively dealing with the issues that generate continued poverty in our culture. Substance abuse and increasingly high rates of incarceration of minority minors are becoming hotbed items on many agendas. I cannot stress enough to young Black and Latino collegiates the necessity of volunteering at shelters, detention centers, emergency rooms, etc. It is imperative that our youth see progressive youth like themselves on the “other” side. Youth who have beat the odds stacked against them discriminately at birth. Education is what got us over as a race and education continues to be the key that opens the door and one day will topple the glass ceiling for good. This I believe.
hmm…I wasn’t trying for redemption but I’m glad your understanding me. It’s kind of difficult conveying who you are on here and I tend to type first and think later. But yes, I am pro-Black and always have been. I have always fought for the underdog and I continue to do so in a variety of ways.
Yes, looking “other” may get your foot in the door, but as you so astutely stated, the door slams shut once the foot’s color is noted. However, oftentimes that foot has made headway before the door can be closed and that is all we really need. The opportunity to present our case at the table. As Brown once sang, “don’t give me nothing, open the door and I’ll get it myself!” or words to that effect.
By the way, are you getting the word out about voting? Have you seen checked on the voting elderly, singles without transportation, immigrants and others who may want to vote but cannot get to the polls or don’t understand the process?
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Ann,
Because it is now time for a change. After a hundred years of white men holding the highest office in the land, don’t you think that it’s time for a Black man to have the opportunity?
This country has long been touted as the land of opportunity, hasn’t it? If you know your American history then surely you would agree that the Black man has just as much acumen as his white brothers in sitting in the White House.
Please do not bother with measly inept platitudes regarding qualifications and such until you have read the complete resumes of ALL the white presidents who have served terms in the Oval Office, up to the present inept commander-in-chief.
You ask about my suggestion regarding a Latino sitting in the White House and I must ask you, do you not keep up with the news on population growth in this country? Social scientists are estimating that with the continued growth of the latin population in this country, they shall soon supersede whites as the majority. I think it is an exciting prospect to have the black and brown people united with their white brothers and sisters in truly legislating government for and by the people as was originally mandated by the Constitution. And yes, I know our Founding Fathers were white and slave holders and that they probably would never have dreamed of America as it is today. But isn’t that what makes for a remarkable history?
The power of Change.
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I guess asking a simple question gets my throat torn out, but what the hell, I have survived worse.
Simple question, which required a simple answer, but, anyway, here goes.
“Because it is now time for a change. After a hundred years of white men holding the highest office in the land, don’t you think that it’s time for a Black man to have the opportunity?”
Don’t I think it is time that whites stop lording it over blacks. Yeah. Dont’t I think it is time that whites cease thinking they can run this country better than everyone else? Yeah. Don’t I think it is high time that America lift herself up out of her whorish hatred of her black citizens? Hell, yeah.
And for your edification. . . it has been MORE than 100 years that white people have fouled this country up.
I already know that it is WAY past time for a change. I already know that white men (and to some extent, white women) have royally fucked up and turned America into a outhouse with their white supremacy. I already know that due to over 400 years of white male (and white female) hatred of black people, black people have been kept from leading this country in the highest office of the land for generations, among so many wrongs done to us by so-called “civilized” white folks.
I already know from white male destruction, and white female complicity, that black people have suffered much in trying to get this country to live up to the Bible and the U.S. Constitution. Even today there are still whites who would hatefully vote against their best interests by voting for McCain. Four more years of garbage, instead of voting for Obama who at least does not have it in for this country the way McCain does.
After hundreds of years of white men running this country into the ground from their perversions, hell yes, I want a change.
“This country has long been touted as the land of opportunity, hasn’t it? If you know your American history then surely you would agree that the Black man has just as much acumen as his white brothers in sitting in the White House.”
Wow, ignorant, much? Since you are ASSuming, I will answer your questions.
I already know that Anerica the Hypocrisy has been touted as a land of equality when I as a black woman see day to day the legacy of white hatred against my people.
I know my American history (which in essence is black history, not the “white” flotsam and jetsom history that pathetically passes itself off as this country’s true history) of black people time and time again, saving this wreck of a country from itself that it has become monotonous to us.
I know there are black men AND women who can run this country better than most whites. Whites have had over 400 years to turn this country into a latrine, and I would think that much of America (whites, Latinos, Native Americans, Asians, etc.) would be more than tired of white supremacy destroying us ALL.
“Please do not bother with measly inept platitudes regarding qualifications and such until you have read the complete resumes of ALL the white presidents who have served terms in the Oval Office, up to the present inept commander-in-chief.”
WTF? Wow, even more ASSumptions.
I have read more than enough about all white presidents of the past as well as McCain’s resumes. Not only is he not up to leading this country right, I caught him in many lies after I listened to his so-called nomination speech acceptance:
And “what measley platitudes” did you have in mind that I meant when I asked you a simple question, since you ASSume to be a mind reader?
It took generations before black Americans could vote, buy a home (even though we still face segregation moreso than ever, not be lynched, not be raped). So, since many poor, so-called “working-class whites” (as if blacks have never been working class; hell, we wrote the book on working-class), whites who are leaning towards McCain and still WANT TO VOTE against their best interests, hell yeah, I question will they (undecided whites and others) will they have the backbone…….the WILL to truly vote for CHANGE.
If whites and other non-blacks do not vote for Obama now that they have the chance, how many CENTURIES do YOU think it will be before they elect a Latino to president? A Native American? An ASIAN?
That is why I questioned your statement.
If many people in this country do not vote for Obama, because of some insanity about his supposed “inexperience” to lead America, why should they not question Latinos, and others? If this country cannot give black people validation of our humanity(black people who have MORE than earned the right to lead, more than white men and women, who have single-handedly torn America apart), then when will much of America accept “Change They Can Believe In?”
After they have stupidly put another Axis of Evil ReThuglicans BACK into office?
What does it take for the majority of the people in this country to see before they keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over again?
No more ReThuglicans.
If America really wants a “change” now’s the time to ante up and cease the bullshit procrastination.
Either get on the pot and shit, or get off it.
Vote for change.
Or STFU, and don’t come crying to me when you (proud American citizen voters) did not cast your vote wisely and realistically.
“You ask about my suggestion regarding a Latino sitting in the White House and I must ask you, do you not keep up with the news on population growth in this country? Social scientists are estimating that with the continued growth of the latin population in this country, they shall soon supersede whites as the majority.”
Been there, done that:
“Latinos Will Be Majority In California by 2042″: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/200/v-print/story/17740.html
U.S. Census Bureau: Population Projections: http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/usinterimproj/
U.S. Census Bureau: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/012496.html
Yes, Latinos will be the majority by about 2050, and I have often wondered how will THEY treat their fellow black citizens in this country. . . .this land of the “free”. . . .this “land of the brave”?
Will they follow the lead of racist whites or will they usher in a new day and age of humanity and respect?
I do question what will happen when the scale tips (as it already is doing) their way in large numbers.
New and more terrifying masters?
Black people have had it up to here with such behaviour from non-blacks.
That some Latinos have so much “love” for their fellow black citizens never ceases to amaze me:
There is a statement in one of the news article links that has a Latino man stating the following:
“At a press conference and walk against hate at the spot where the shooting occurred, Baez wondered out loud why he was the only Latino that took part in the protest action.
“He challenged other Latino activists and leaders to aggressively oppose hate crime violence between Latinos and blacks.
“There have been few takers.”
So, yeah, I am questioning how will Latinos treat black citizens in the future.
Why is that OVERWHELMINGLY, blacks are the ones who reach out to form coalitions of solidarity moreso than most non-blacks?
Is it that we are more human? More evolved? More intelligent? More saner? Is it that we face facts more?
Hmm?
And I have a right to question them as much as I have the moral right to question whites, many of whom have behaved and still behave like depraved insults to the very God who created them.
And I am looking at how Latinos respond to Obama. And Asians. And Middle Easterners/Arabs. And Native Americans.
Anybody can talk about what they will do. . . .the real McCoy is in what they do.
Can they walk the walk, as well as talk the talk?
Actions speak louder than words.
The majority of black people and some progressive-minded whites, Latinos, Asians, etc., alone cannot put Obama into office.
It will take a huge majority to do that.
So, for your information, the question is NOT Obama.
The $700 million question is “America really ready? Does America have the guts/the balls/the tits to really live up to its name?”
Has America finally grown a CONSCIOUS?
And I will belive in the true “will” of the American people when they put their money where their mouth is. . . .or shall I say their vote where their mouth is.
No more of this damn hogswill:
“Wilder/Bradley Effect”:
Black people have had it up to here with such behaviour.
“I think it is an exciting prospect to have the black and brown people united with their white brothers and sisters in truly legislating government for and by the people as was originally mandated by the Constitution. And yes, I know our Founding Fathers were white and slave holders and that they probably would never have dreamed of America as it is today. But isn’t that what makes for a remarkable history?”
Remarkable?
Okay, yeah.
Remarkable to me is when I see Obama sitting in the Oval Office.
Remarkable when people (so-called American citizens) restore my faith in THEM.
Remarkable when I see after November 4, 2008, that many Americans have stopped snotting and crying about “Change Is Gonna Come”, only to chicken-out at the last minute and run with that cowardly streak up their backs to put another damn ruthless ReThugligan back into office.
Obama is not the problem, NEVER was the problem.
My biggest fear is that many so-called Americans will chicken-out and turn rat-coward against Obama at the polls.
“The Power of Change”.
Yeah, got it.
When I see so-called American citizens voting FOR THEIR BEST INTERESTS (Obama), and not voting against their best interests (McCain), when I see people put ACTIONS to their WORDS, then I will beleive that America is truly ready for the power of change.
I have been waiting all my life for the power of change.
And I damn sure would like to see the rest of my so-called fellow Americans live up to what they say with their mouths, and perform it in deeds that speak of change at the voting boooth with the voting ballot.
Sheesh.
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Ann,
In the words of Jada Pinkett Smith in “A Low Down Dirty Shame”,
“Tell ’em baby!”
Powerful post. You straightened her out and schooled me. Thank you.
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Ann,
hahahahah I took you for a bigot white woman.
As an intelligent Black woman, what was the point of asking about a future hypothetical Latino president if your well aware of the Latin culture’s influence in America?
November 4th will be the deciding factor. Let’s pray that true history will be made for our children and our children’s children.
It is time for a Change!!
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Ann,
>>Yes, Latinos will be the majority by about 2050, and I have often wondered how will THEY treat their fellow black citizens in this country. . . .this land of the “free”. . . .this “land of the brave”?<>Will they follow the lead of racist whites or will they usher in a new day and age of humanity and respect? <>I do question what will happen when the scale tips (as it already is doing) their way in large numbers. New and more terrifying masters? <>That some Latinos have so much “love” for their fellow black citizens never ceases to amaze me<>So, yeah, I am questioning how will Latinos treat black citizens in the future<>Why is that OVERWHELMINGLY, blacks are the ones who reach out to form coalitions of solidarity moreso than most non-blacks?<>And I have a right to question them as much as I have the moral right to question whites, many of whom have behaved and still behave like depraved insults to the very God who created them.<<
Racism is never going away. That’s a certainty. But we, as a group, need to sweep our own backyards before opening the gate to others.
Again, Nov. 4th!
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Ann is priceless.
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yes she is. And I just found out about this web just a few days ago and so far really have enjoyed all comments. Especially Ann’s.
This is great. More readiong material.
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“As an intelligent Black woman, what was the point of asking about a future hypothetical Latino president if your well aware of the Latin culture’s influence in America?”
Because there are faces. . . .people. . . .behind those numbers, and I realize that whites are not the only ones who have shown race hatred against black people. It has come in many races, against us.
“Racism is never going away. That’s a certainty. But we, as a group, need to sweep our own backyards before opening the gate to others.”
I agree, Mary Ellen. Racism is too much a part of America for it to ever go away. Besides, blacks have opened the gate too much to many non-blacks and have paid the price for too much generosity of spirit and openness, given towards those who do not reciprocate the solidarity we show them.
I concentrate on black people because I feel that I owe all the black people who came before me accountability to not lead any black person astray. The many young black people who do not know their history is heartbreaking, and I try to give them as much ammunition (help) in learning all the contributions that their black ancestors made.
Knowledge of your people’s history is a weapon.
Whites have used non-blacks against us for centuries, and that will never cease.
We blacks can only continue to keep the high road as our ancestors did so beautifully before us.
It is the least we can do.
Mynameismyname, Abagond and Denise, thank you.
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Ann,
Yes, many Black people today do not know their histories, but whose fault is that? If Blacks do not take ownership of their histories, legacies, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses as a race/culture, whose fault is that?
If Blacks do not practice a system of morality that ensures a strong familial bond -as marriage does- and thus, sets the stage for the transferance of family values, culture, traditions, whose fault is that?
If Blacks continually avoid the major issues that are impediments to their future unity and strength at the bargaining table of life, whose fault is that?
You state that Blacks have opened the gates to nonblacks but how do you propose that we close those gates when there is so much readied and available ‘race-mixing’ steadily taking place?
It is not always the outsider who is the enemy. Sometimes it is within your own backyard. That is a harder reality to bear but it is the truth. And still I rise…
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“You state that Blacks have opened the gates to nonblacks but how do you propose that we close those gates when there is so much readied and available ‘race-mixing’ steadily taking place?”
I do not advocate closing off to other races. I was not speaking of mixing races. I spoke of coalitions (that address issues of impact on POC communities) that can occur between blacks and non-blacks. Coalitions to address the dumping of spent uranium on Navajo lands, the building of hazardous waste sites in Black and Latino communties. That is what Ispoke of.
Such coalitions of solidarity strengthen not only blacks, but the rest of the country.
If race-mixing occurs, it occurs. But, race-mixing has NOT eradicated racism. It never will. Climbing between each others legs does not address institutionalized racism. Marrying each other will not dismantle racism. It takes more than that.
Working TOGETHER (Black, Red, Yellow, Brown, and White) to combat racism will not overturn racism anytime soon, but it will make this hypocrisy of a counry a little better place to live in.
How much sex a white man can have wth me will not begin to chip away at racism. How a white man honors my humanity and womanhood and does not disparage it is what will challenge America’s racist system. Not challenging racism, individually and institutionaly, is what undermines real change in this country.
Sex has not eradicated racism.
If such a thing were possible black women would be accorded the same humanity that many women of other races are accorded.
All the fornications from slavery/segregation STILL have not obliterated hatred of black people. If such a thing were true, with all the rape-mixing that has occurred in America, racism would be a thing of the past.
True respect of non-blacks towards blacks rests not between the legs, but, it resides here (mind) and here (heart).
As for blacks not knowing their history, etc., I never stated it was anyone else’s fault. MUCH of what I learned of my history in this country I learned on my own—-outside of what lamentably pass as schools in this country.
Much of black people’s influence on America I learned of from reading about it myself, and committing critical thinking to seeing through the hocus-pocus of racial lies against blacks contributions to America.
“If Blacks do not practice a system of morality that ensures a strong familial bond -as marriage does- and thus, sets the stage for the transferance of family values, culture, traditions, whose fault is that?”
Did I state that black culture is completely bankrupt overall?
Not all black people have turned against morality, marriage or vows of commitment.
“It is not always the outsider who is the enemy. Sometimes it is within your own backyard. That is a harder reality to bear but it is the truth. And still I rise…”
Preaching to the choir.
Yes, the insiders…….the fifth columnists who have wreaked devastation on the BC. The Quislings. The Peter Devesnys. The Julys of the Stono Rebellion.
The BC knows them very well.
Truth.
Some people (me) can bear the truth well, no matter how painful. Some black people cannot.
Truth. Learn from it, go, and sin no more.
As I said, knowledge of your history IS a weapon.
When you know your own history, you know where you have been, and where you are going.
When you know your own people’s history, no one can f**k with you.
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Ann, I like that: “Knowledge of your people’s history is a weapon.”
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Ann:
Are there any books, websites or blog posts that lay out something close to your understanding of American history? Or, failing that, which would be the most helpful to read?
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“mary ellen”. are you and your sister husband. lightskined black men or bright skined. and i guess what your brothers did is a good thing for them.
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Do you have anything on (Hispanic) Panamanian women? I’m Half Panamanian and Black so I’m just wondering.
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Sorry, no.
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This is interesting. Just offering another viewpoint on what it is to be Creole.
I agree somewhat with Lynette that Creole is not a race, but more of a culture. That being said, Lynette’s experience with being Creole is her own and I respect that. But I, being Creole have English, French, Haitian, African, and Indian ancestry. So for me to deny the other parts of my heritage over the other would be just as ridiculous to me as someone claiming to be half Creole as well.
I and my family still speak some of the patois, cook and eat the food my ancestors ate, participate in most of the same rituals and traditions, etc.
I’m curious, do Puerto Ricans or Brazilians with Black ancestry define themselves as just Black? Their culture and racial makeup is just as special and germane to where they live, as the Creole’s culture and racial makeup in Louisiana where Louisiana Creoles reside or stemmed from. It truly was and IS a very unique culture that existed nowhere else until families began moving from Louisiana.
Other Black people may have French, Spanish, or Native American ancestry as Lynette says, but not all of them have anything to do with Louisiana Creole culture. So while I understand what Lynette is saying, it really doesn’t apply here. A black person born and raised in Florida with French and Indian ancestors probably wouldn’t call themselves Creole. They don’t have anything to do with it, or the customs.
Everyone is welcome to identify themselves as they wish, but I’m not going to identify myself as either “Native American”, “Caucasian”, “African American”, or “Black”, neither fits. I could say that I am “mixed” but I prefer to say that I am Creole, and often Louisiana Creole to be exact.
Stating that I am just Black with some Creole “background” would to me be perpetuating the one drop rule. Doing the opposite and trying to “passe blanc” certainly doesn’t help either. I have Creole relatives of all colors. So much of Creole culture has been lost do assimilation, just as with most cultures.
I celebrate my mixed race and cultural heritage, and as I said, one race or heritage doesn’t take precedence over the other. That’s why for me Creole fits. Je suis Creole!
Thanks for reading.
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It is sad that in the year 2009 and with the recent historical events in this country, the first Africian American President, who is also of mixed decent, but still is proud of and embaces his blackness, that some black people still refuse to except much less embrace their blackness and insist on labeling them selves multiracial. Prior to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950’s & 1960’s, the white governing body of this country determined that if you had one once of black blood in your DNA, then you were considered black. So with that said, be proud of your blackness and learn to embrace it. Lactification is man made but Black is beautiful!
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So with that said, be proud of your blackness and learn to embrace it. Lactification is man made but Black is beautiful!……QUIT INTERNALIZING A RULE THAT ISN’T FAIR TO ALL PEOPLE
I know this post is old but I could not help but comment……..I was born and raised in New Orleans, LA and I come from a long history of Louisiana Creoles. My great-great grandmother and grandfather were both born along the Achafalya River and generation after generation they continue to marry creole. So, why should I be ashamed of my genetic history because someone made up the………ONE DROP OF BLOOD RULE. It’s not that I donot embrace the fact that on my mother side I have one grandfather who is a pure African(I am very proud of that)who married a biracial Native American Indian/Irish woman. Why should I ignore and be ashamed of something that I had absolutely no power over.
First of all you should understand where why the…..ONE DROP OF BLOOD RULE…was created.
This rule was created to stop free people of color who owned property from buying their dark skinned relatives and giving them their freedom. Also when this rule was made law they were able to steal their property.
The matriarch of Creole culture is an African woman who was known as Madam Coin Coin who married a Caucasian General, who gave all of his children land and their freedom. The history of the Louisiana Creole is a beautiful, poignant piece of American history.
No one has the right to take away anyone’s ancestry know if was mixed or pure African based on a rule that came out slavery. I am blessed to be both Creole and African American, because they are almost synonymous, because neither imply any one pure race…….Barrack claims to be both biracial and African American. He’s has never been forced to deny any of his DNA.
Creoles, African Americans, Bi-racial all fall under the umbrella as non-white…..So,we all share racial and social injustices, which is why the term “African American” has been used as a social and political platform, but understand that it is not a fair description of the cultural and ethnic diversity that exist within the black race.
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P.S.
Sorry for the typos. Also I am new on this post and I missed a lot of the hot discussions, but I think its a really good post.
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CindyAnn:
Thank you. I am glad you liked it.
The One Drop Rule was used unfairly against the free people of colour, but the rule was not made up for that purpose like it seems you are saying in your comment. It was already in operation in the American South long before it was applied to Louisiana by outsiders in the late 1800s.
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Thank you for the clarifications, I just had a knee jerk reaction to the last post. Enjoy your day.
CyndiAnn
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Heritage is great! Creoles did not want to have anything to do with their African heritage, they where brained washed into thinking that light was better than dark. In those times whites had freedoms and privileges that the rest did not have, and that’s what all colored people were seeking. Lighter skinned creoles wanted to Capitalize their tone by disowning all that was African to them and pass this feeling through their legacy, in hopes of having a better lifestyle and becoming educated. It was just an ugly and dishonoring way to go about obtaining those freedoms.
I suggest watching the movie “Feast of All Saints” it gives some good insight to the culture.
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@ CyndiAnn
It wouldn’t be harsh to say that your family only continued to marry Creole to protect the ideology that lighter is better, in hopes of that their legacy could have a greater standard of living closer to that of whites. Many Creoles where not proud of their African Heritage… that’s the thing, Creoles were in denial. Are you proud that your ancestors denied their heritage?!
Get into that Movie “Feast of All Saints” and see what our people both of African and Mixed heritage (in which African was included)
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I totally agree that the legacy of the creole was all about lighting up their dark skin in hopes of a better life and in some cases it work. Hopelessness will drive people to do the unthinkable. My father would tell us the story about how my grandmother cried when her only daughter was born….. because she was darker than all of the boys.
However, in some cases, it was the dark skin male or female who saw pro-creating with a white or light skin person as an opportunity, as well. As a matter of fact, their are black women and men to this date who bleach their skin(thinkin it would provide them with better opportunities)and have been doing just that for decades…… Many West Indians still practice bleaching their skin….especially the Haitian. Hollywood! LOL!…… Dark skin actors have made skin bleaching a big comeback…..Eddie and Charlie Murphy, Chris Rock, Lil Kim, All of the Jacksons and list goes on. Also, many wealthy black males are just skipping over black women of any hue and just going straight to white women…..because they have that old dated mentality that white, or non-black people have higher standards and more quality life(Classism).
So we can’t point fingers…..Slavery is a very evil part of American history…..The pain, shame, and degradation of slavery is still alive and well in the new millenieum…..There are those who have and will continue to make their pain a self- destructive cycle….Crime,Human Dismorphia,Depression,Obscure Poverty, Illiteracy….Yet,there are those who rose above the pain and made their pain a driving force and strength…. Not just to benefit themselves but to empower others as well.
The last thing we should do is pull the mistakes we made during slavery and claim baggage….Especially women of color, no matter what….we should recognize that we are all still struggling with the scars and wounds of slavery…..which is why the movement is so important. Women of color were excluded from every movement that ever happened in this country…..Because we were sucessfully pitted against one another for some reason or another. Remember the old adage….”united we stand, divide we fall.”
As for the “Feast of All Saints”……I found that the book was much better than the movie. Nonetheless, Anne Rice writes fiction and not historical facts.
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Hi, I just read the blog post and I have to say that it is touching how honestly people are talking about things. I am originally from New York (I live in L.A) and I know that the racism there is sincerely overpowering. But what’s interesting is how aware people are of it. Here in L.A, sometimes blacks live closely with whites and Hispanic people but sometimes,they live in slums where it is hard to challenge things. I have a white boyfriend (which would be unthinkable in New York which is pretty political. Don’t get me wrong; I love politically minded black people because they’re telling the truth) but I think that black ppl here are desperate to have white friends, white love interests because they equate them with having better things in life. They have no political agenda and no sense of history. It’s sad for me because I see a lot of black girls and guys getting ripped off (including me to be honest) by white and Hispanic people. There is a lot of colorism and hatred of dark skin which I usually find to be beautiful. I’ve heard girls say things like “I was practically white when I was born” or “You know that nice, wavy good hair that light skinned people have?”. I’ve had to deal with black girls wanting to steal my boyfriend, not because they know him or like him but because he is white.
I am all black (my father is Nigerian,my mother is have black American (Guiche girl from South Sea Islands) and half Honduran) and I have come to love what makes me black. I love my nose, my skin color, my hair, my brown skin (whether just brown or tanned). I love my blackness so much I love it in other people (darkskinned or lightskinned- doesn’t matter) but I see so much self-hatred, it pains me.
As for my boyfriend, I was raised without my father. I’ve spent two years and an afternoon or two with him so it’s safe to say he wasn’t in my life. Earlier on I had negative experiences with black men and so I overlooked them a bit. Now, I know I’d be more open in my dating choices but my relationship is going smoothly. If I have children, I will comfort myself with the knowledge that they will have black blood in their veins. A little fairness doesn’t erase the negritude that rests in my soul…If not, then brown skinned children.
My whole point is that in slave times, we black people were much less divided in the face of deceptively destructive racism. A slave was a slave and freed slaves were freed slaves. I watched a documentary on Black history and I was floored about the diversity of people I saw on the Bread line during the New Deal. It was a Benetton Ad for black eyes. Black people need to start loving all black people, not just romantically and not just the lightskinned.
And yes, blacks need to be careful in dealings with other races. Some are very righteous but I’ve seen Hispanic and male immigrants behaving very poorly with black women and I’ve seen Hispanic people being incredibly racist towards people of color. They sometimes can inspire self-hatred in young black people. Like the friend who told me, “But you’re so dark…” Or the fair skinned latina who refused to date an incredibly handsome and fairly dark skinned brother- she barely contained herself when responding a comment about her newfound attractiveness to boys and this one in particular; “oh but he’s…it’s his kind.” Same girl was so color struck by my bf’s blue eyes that she had to tell him. Or my Mexican landlord who rented me a room in Compton- he would have loud, sexual intercourse with his black girlfriend in his room while her 4 year old daughter slept in the same (large) bed. We talked- she called her daughter biracial because the child’s father was Mexican. However, she never had never met his parents but I had- as a tenant…
Black people should realize that their diversity is very beautiful…and worth embracing (even if we have to embrace each other). Peace.
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Eve,
Thanks for your candid, instructive comments, especially as they relate to ANTI-BLACK RACISM from NON-BLACK HISPANICS or LIGHT SKINNED HISPANICS. As an Afro-latina, I have certainly witnessed/experienced the extreme IGNORANCE and ANTI-BLACK RACISM/COLORISM of NON-BLACK HISPANICS or LIGHT SKINNED HISPANICS and I am disgusted/embarrassed by it. I’m glad that more Blacks are pointing out these OUTRAGEOUS, RIDICULOUS, STUPID behaviors/attitudes.
I know for a FACT that NON-BLACK HISPANICS or LIGHT SKINNED HISPANICS are in NO WAY SUPERIOR to ANY AFRO-HISPANIC/DARK SKINNED HISPANIC/BLACK person and it isn’t a “SPECIAL PRIVILEGE” to be involved in a dating and/or marriage relationship with them. Black people (of whatever ethnicity) should only be in relationships with QUALITY, NON-RACIST/NON-COLORIST NON-BLACK HISPANICS or LIGHT SKINNED HISPANICS (if they choose them at all).
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laromana,
Just some thoughts…I’m not trying to lecture but I have a million things to say!
My mother told me that she always sees that film, Imitation of Life playing on Spanish language network television. You know the one where the white looking daughter pretends to pass while ignoring her black mother? I see that it’s just one of those ambiguities that is part and parcel of being in global world.
It’s impossibe even to read Isabel Allende or Julia Alvarez without coming across one of these beliefs in action. It would ironically funny if it wasn’t sad but it feels like the more African blood a person has,the move invisible they become in Latino society.
I see exactly what you’re saying and it’s heartbreaking that Hispanic whites and mestizo people think that they should aspire to be white rather than acknowledge the truth… The fact remains that a trail of Inuit and African blood coupled with European blood & domination created the Hispanic blood today. Like in a drama, all of the players are important; you can’t deny Africa her role in creating the New Spanish speaking world.
It’s like people haven’t gotten the memo. Racism seems to perpetuate the outrageous distortions how the colonized and new world people should see themselves.
I have seen lighter skinned, Hispanic people bragging about their white heritage. I’ve seen them go as far to deny that there are people of color in their country. And I’ve seen Spanish speakers with black blood looking at themselves with same distortion, despising their own skin color. It only pains me more when I see that there are people who go further (than ashamed of being black or of having black relatives or black friends) to actually maintaining the status quo (albeit the white version).
I hate how these people “try” to be white by excluding other races and trying to make people of color ashamed of themselves. I’ve seen white Latinas angry because I date out of my race, because I’m not ashamed of my blackness. (I wonder if they’re so lily white why do they need to prove their ethnicity so much?) And it’s sad to see African Americans being so accepting towards people who dislike blackness so much. It’s like a darker skinned person (in mainstream Latino society) is only valid when they’re trying to be white. (Which is impossible, pointless and tragic. Social apartheid never works and makes you look bad!!!) And then, it becomes impossible to explore who you are and what it means to be dark skinned because everything is in black and white terms. And as a black person (even when trying to pass) you’re still a black person.
And that’s not even the sexual aspect of shame issue to which that you have alluded. I also notice the predatory sexual curiosity that some people have about black people. Young black people, of all nationalities, have to be careful that they are not being exploited. It’s really important…!
But if slavery in the U.S had not been contested, struggled and wrangled over, most Hispanic people would be described in their radiating levels of blackness. Which is not accurate because the one drop rule was created to justify slavery,predatory sexual access to African women and future racism. However once things get created, I find they just can’t be undone. I’m now learning that Haitians influenced African Americans and African Americans influenced Africans, Americans (and apparently Castro ~ why visit Harlem when in the U.S?) Maybe the close contact will rub off (not on whites because sometimes they can be in Lala land about being white and American) on Hispanic whites. But I’m not really holding my breath either.
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Excellent observations,Eve!
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Eve:
Thank you for your beautiful, wonderful comments!
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You’re welcome. But thank for you, Abagond, for your wonderful honest blog. I look forward to reading more. God bless you.
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Abagond,
“There were not many white women in Louisiana in the old days.”
Actually, that was only at the very beginning. Later there were enough but placage continued.
After Louisiana became an American state the Americans picked up the practice and carried it until after Reconstruction (at which point the KKK brought an end to it).
Have you read Cane River?
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“The One Drop Rule was used unfairly against the free people of colour, but the rule was not made up for that purpose like it seems you are saying in your comment. It was already in operation in the American South long before it was applied to Louisiana by outsiders in the late 1800s.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
It was a tool white relatives used to keep mixed-race progeny from their inheritance. WW also used it to keep WM away from BW. If he had children with a woman who was even “one drop” black his children would be black and unable to inherit or be treated as his legal heirs.
Also WW were just REALLY PISSED about all of the brown babies everywhere. It was like a slap in the face to them. They were only valued for their sexual purity while their men were rutting around town.
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My aunt is married to a creole. I know it’s not really that important. Just want to make some conversation. Hello everybody!
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I really enjoyed reading Cane River. But real-life stories are sometimes frustrating to read because things sometimes happen that make you shake your head and think, “No, you didn’t!”. Fictional stories tend to flow and make more sense. Life IS stranger than fiction.
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@Lynette
I don’t know but he is from Louisiana. He’s in the USAF and he was stationed in Suffolk in the U.K.
Now they live in Louisiana.
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Lynette, are you still strongly involved with the Creole culture? I don’t know much about it, but I’m going to do some research.
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I have not read “Cane River”, but guess what: I saw it at used book sale today and bought it. What are the chances of that?
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I have to say, I think the finest women in america are from louisiana. Then…… I don’t know.
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Lynette,
I was just talking to a young man from Shreveport, LA. He was shocked that I knew what a Creole was! “Not too many people from the area know about Shreveport or Creoles” were his exact words.
I’m also interested in checking out “Cane River”.
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“Not too many people who are NOT from the area know about Shreveport or Creoles” were his exact words. That’s what I meant to type.
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Let me clear up some things about Creoles. I’m half Creole. Creole is not always mixed race people. Creole is an all encompassing term, you can be dark skinned and Creole, as well as white and Creole, and you are right there is a difference between Cajuns and Creole. Cajuns are Arcadians from Canada. Creole is not a race. It is a culture.
The one drop rule was applied to Creoles of color. Ask Susan Guillory Phipps. She was raised as a white person, but her birth certificate indicated she was colored, in the 1970s she fought and lost to the state of Louisiana to change her racial designation from colored to white.
Not all mixed Creoles were free, some where, some weren’t. They typically as slaves did get treated better than their darker hued counterparts. Much the same as during the time of Jim Crow and segregation, many Creoles were treated better, and often times they were granted to access to HBCUs, and actively engaged in colorism, including the brown paper bag test.
Not all white men ran after Quadroons, remember those Quadroons came from somewhere.
Placage happened with Quadroon, Octaroon, Biracial, and Black women.
Not many moved to Texas, I think a lot of it was a bunch of migration. Remember Texas is right next door to Louisiana, and many of us grew up 10 miles from the border.
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Lynette,
Parlay Kreyol? I had to use it on occasion because one of my great grandmother didn’t know English very well, even though she lived in America all of her life. It’s strange, not many young people speak Creole, but I know enough to get by if someone is speaking it to me.
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I’m also Cane River Creole. What’s your family name? We are Roque mostly.
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I’ve just read this thread and I’m puzzled.
Someone stated that Ciara Harris is creole (I think it was Mary Ellen) when asked to prove it, it was stated that most black people do not know their history but she is definitely creole…
How do you know this?.
She’s never said it, but you just know? how.
I’m Nigerian, Ciara doesn’t look unlike many N’digbo people.
I could just as easily state that Ciara is Igbo but doesn’t know her cultural history, but that would be ridiculous.
You have no idea if she knows about her heritage or not, because no-one seems to have asked, you just presume she is ignorant of it?. WOW.
I find it fascinating that no-one is fighting to prove that dark skinned black celebrities are creole. However light skinned ones just have to be.
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Sorry Lynette, I actually missed your comment!
The guy from Shreveport currently lives in my current residence of Hampton, VA, one of the “seven cities” that comprises the Hampton Roads area of southeastern Virginia. He lives near me and I just happened to strike up a conversation one day. He was awestruck about my knowledge of his hometown and of the Creole culture. I asked him if he was Creole, he said “a little bit”.
Is your husband Creole, Lynette? Are Creoles populous in “Rachet City” (Shreveport)?
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Lynette,
I’ve moved around quite a bit. I have lived in North Jersey for a couple years, so you were in the right vicinity. I moved here to Virginia from Connecticut.
I notice that there’s a Texas-Louisiana connection. I also notice that black American families from California tend to originate from Mississippi and Louisiana as well as Alabama and Arkansas. Have you noticed these patterns as well? Do a lot of Louisiana folk like yourself move to MS, and vice versa?
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Again missing her on the List as if she doesn’t exist..Due to her Light Complexion, and Light Brown Eyes being also from A Creole background is Actress Raven-symone. Raven-symone is attractive to lots of White Males, Arab, Asians, etc besides Black Men…do some surveys on her. Raven-symone is the Former Child Star that is becoming an Accomplished Adult Star…she has the same Talent as all of these Women Combined…have you seen her latest look? Look for her new Pics from 2009.
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christina milian (the girl in the third pic with the pink shirt)
is not creole. she is cuban.
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furthermore her mother is black cuban and her father is whitwe cuban
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lisa bonet is also not creole. Her father is african american and her mother is ashkenzi jewish.
no offense but your research seem poor
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Mary Ellen ,
Trying to explain our unique and often envied Creole heritage is often times a waste of time when talking to non Creole African Americans . They often do not understand us nor do they want to . They just don’t get it , and they never will because they are NOT Creole nor will they ever be . We come from a long lineage of French Aristocrats , Spanish Royalty , Native American Warriors , and African Chiefs , who all met and created a wonderful beautiful people which is us we are Creoles , my family is from Louisiana , I am 100 % proud Creole woman I have ancestry in both North and South Louisiana and yes my Creole 7th ward family are descended from both a French man as well a Free woman of color who was Haitian . She was free not a slave and she was of mixed ancestry , French , Spanish , African , yes we come from a long line of Creoles before the Louisiana purchase or the Haitian revolution , we were not slaves . We are Free Creoles of Colour , Gens De Colour Libre .
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I also have alot of Creole family in Southern and Northern California , East Texas as well as in Detroit .
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Most of my famoly are in Louisiana !
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Poor Lynette ,
Eeeew Mississippi is a place I would never want to live !
Get out as soon as you can !
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Joan & Constance Bennett, actresses from the 1930’s were the grandaughters of an Jewish-African-Creole named Lewis Morris who changed his name to hide his heritage. Incidentally, Joan Bennett was considered for the role of Scarlett O’Hara in “GONE WITH THE WIND”.
Lewis is also the GREAT Grandfather of Morton Downey, Jr.
More Here:
http://www.jewish-history.com/civilwar/morris.html
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My family started as Americans when my slave ancestor was picked from the fields and pregnanted by my Great-Great…Grandfather her slaveowner who originally came to Louisiana from Lyon, France in either 1789. I have no idea if she loved him or not but he gave her 100 acres and she gave him 8 children. A placage. On the other hand I have my mother’s side of the family who are just as Creole as my father’s side but with dark skin. Please remember that Creole is not being Catholic, or light with curly or straight hair. It is a blood but more importantly, it is a culture. Also, although New Orleans Creole are famous, they are not the only Creoles in Louisiana. By numbers SWLA outnumber them.
An aside note: This past summer my wife and I travelled to Paris and met some of my French cousins. The met us with documents of family history. They took us out to eat and guided us to wonderful parts of Paris. His hometown is Lyon. I have a few pics if it if y’all like to see.
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I forgot to mention my name is Hollier, pronounced OL-LE-YEA. And I’m Catholic. In French in meant debauchery! The Hollier’s in France made their fortune in prostitution…If you my Hollier’s it makes sense!
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Does anyone know August Darnells origins aka Kid Creole? I once read that his maternal family were from the caribbean and descended from the Caribs there (Dominica in the W.I)but when I have looked recently I cant seem to see evidence of this anymore.
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I am coloured and from South Africa. Coloureds are a Creole peole, with a Creole culture and speak a creole langauge called Afrikaans. Creolizations is a social process and does not just refer to ‘race mixture’. Creolization first started as a process of cultural fusion and creativity by people on the margins of slave society living in a colony. From 1652 slaves were brought to Africa(Yes – slaves were brought to the Cape Colony) from various places in South East Asia, South India, Madagscar, East Africa and West Africa. The indigene Khoi and San people were dispossed of their land forced to work as indetured labourers. Coloured identity has been shaped by colonialism, slavery, segregation and apartheid. Personally, i detest the term Coloured. It is too flimsy and is simply understood to mean people of ‘mixed-race’. I am South African Creole – this term describes my true and whole identity.
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Oh gosh what kind of nonsense am I reading. Get on with your lives and stop this kerfuffle about race. Blacks are always going about race. Stupid stupid mental slavery. The only way to move on is to stop differentiating. I am yet to see a group of people that spend copious amount of time talking about ethnicity, race, hair and all manner of nonsense. Tired of it now! Dear Lord!
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@angelina
I’m sorry you see this blog and comments as nonsense. It’s about people, their history, culture, identity, and much more.
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I just read many of the comment. I agree that blacks who try to force “mixed-race or mixed cultured” people to simply identify as black should stop. Why seek to force someone to be apart of a group he or she doesn’t want to be apart of? As a black american I likely “mixed race” but that the african american experience in my opinion. I believe it is unfair to hold mixed race (especially those born after the ban on interacial marriages/relationships was found to be illegal) hostage. These individuals were not products of rape and sexual coercion.
LA has a rich history different from much of the rest of the USA. Before the civil war many “races” lived together in unions that would be illegal in most places in the USA. Nevertheless, Creoles of color did exist in a caste system- many were the property owners (including black slaves), and skilled workers. In addition they established their own schools and organizations to maintain there separateness from blacks. While I cannot reduce their culture to only lighter skinned priviledges, there is not denying history. A spade should be called a spade.
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This is disgusting. This is sad. Mixed black people that do not want to be classified as black. At the end of the day, the white man will call you black or in some cases a n1gger, REGARDLESS of what you call yourself or not. There is nothing wrong with knowing ones ancestry, but come on!! this is a bit to far. Judging a person off of the complexion of their skin color. What gives anyone the right?? I think JESUS could have cared less what RACE or COMPLEXION you were when he being BEATEN, NAILED and CRUCIFIED for our sins. Black people are always ATTACKING OURSELVES like HIV/AIDS confuses a persons body into ATTACKING itself. White people laugh at things like this. And then you wonder why white people talk to us any type of way and treat us like crap….well look how we argue with each other and argue about dumb crap. They think it is sad. I am DARK SKIN. My one sister looks native american, my other sister is light skinned. Tormented all my life about my complexion and NO-ONE ever believed I was related to my sisters due to our COMPLEXION. The same thing with my aunt and mother. They are from Jamaica and my aunt is PALE as the moon with green and grey eyes. My mother is caramel with brown eyes. THEY LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT but how could this be possible having the same biological parents??? WHOOOOOOOO GIVES A DAM??!! You don’t hear WHITE people rave and argue with each other all the time about how white they are. YOU WILL RARELY HEAR A WHITE PERSON ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE BLACK HERITAGE IN THEM! that is a no no.
Get over yourselves. Your all black with some white mans sperm in your blood like everyone else. It has been scientifically proven that everyone’s ancestors came from AFRICA.
There are children being killed, molested around the world. There are people losing their jobs and homes. There are people that are homeless and starving all over the world. You think they care about who is and who is not CREOLE, CAJUN, and whatever else?? I am sooo tired of THE COMPLEXION WAR!!
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Not sure what qualifies Garcelle Beauvais as ‘creole’. Her connection to New Orleans is nil.
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@ gro jo
My understanding is that Garcelle Beauvais’s family came to Haiti from New Orleans after the US civil war.
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What about the Creola’s, from Cape Verde, Guinnea Bissau, the Creole’s from Shebro Island, Banna Island and Freetown all in Sierra Leone????
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Thanks for this information. I live in Louisiana and am of creole culture. My dads mom speak french and so did him and his dad. My mothers mom is also of creole culture to so ive herd mamy stories from her. Im just really trying to figure out where i come from and i feel like our story should be herd and our culture to be recognised for the many things it has offered.
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Garcelle Beauvais looks like she could be half (East or Southeast) Asian.
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@ Jefe
There are quite a lot of Caribbean people you could say that about, including some of my family. So I wouldn’t be surprised if she has Asian ancestry.
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Your blog is phenomenal. I hope to get notifications of new comments and posts.
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Good evening Beloveds,
As a Louisiana Kreyol, I have to let you know, I appreciate your article. I must also add, that not all Kreyols/Creoles are ‘light-skinned’. We, like the rest of the Diaspora, cover the entire color spectrum.
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute.
Peace
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Abagond, why do you say that Anglo/Germanic cities are gray places? Orania has a much more vibrant and positive culture than Rio. Latin cultures are too focused on dancing and sexuality, and don’t seem as serious as Germanic/Anglo cultures. Like at Marsh Gras, when women take off their tops…this would never happen at an Afrikaner cultural festival, nor at an Amish/Mennonite cultural festival.
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