Disclaimer: I know there are some truly kind and concerned white people, but this post is about the many, not the few.
The “Go back to Africa” argument says that if black people do not like it in America, they should go back to Africa. Mostly it is not an argument about Africa but about the kindness of white people. It makes the point that White Americans have been nicer to black people than anyone else in the world, even nicer than black Africans would be.
Pat Buchanan loves this argument and makes it more directly. Here he is in 2008:
First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.
Where to begin?
First, it assumes that blacks are richer in America because White Americans have been kinder to them than Africans would be. Wrong: blacks are richer in America because America is richer.
The pie is so big in America that even when it is divided unjustly, as it is, it still leaves most people with more pie than any ordinary person would get in the Third World. Which is why people from the Third World come to America: poverty is worse than racism. But that does not excuse racism.
The argument also overlooks how Africa got to be so poor and screwed up. It turns a blind eye to the effect of the Atlantic slave trade on Africa and the effect of white rule, both direct (colonial empires) and indirect (banana republics).
And like the Arab trader argument it makes whites look good by comparing them to someone else.
But the worst thing about this argument is that it is such a huge lie.
Whites pretty much let blacks twist in the wind, like we saw on television right after Katrina. Blacks are like unwanted stepchildren in America. Whatever blacks have achieved has been in spite of whites for the most part. Most whites were quite fine with Jim Crow, if you remember. And even now most seem to be quite fine with failing black schools, black ghettos and high rates of black unemployment and crime (so long as it is not in their neighbourhood). Thus the kindness of white people.
And just so you know how morally broken this argument is, it goes back to slave days. Here is Robert E. Lee in 1856:
The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.
Spoken like a true white person: it is not so bad and, besides, it is not our fault.
See also:
Thank you Abagond. Yet again you’ve provided a very clarifying portrait of another realm of the collective white psyche. I hadn’t thought about the connections between this common white reaction to black charges of racism and the common white belief in the fundamentally benign kindness of whiteness. Very true, that.
This post reminded me of a conversation I once had with a white woman whose ancestors owned an antebellum plantation. She said that she hates the bad rep her ancestors got, for being so cruel and all. She sincerely believed that much to the contrary, those who were enslaved by her ancestors were entirely happy slaves. She ended her filial defense with this claim:
“And you know something? When the war was over and our slaves were released, most of them wandered around for awhile, hopelessly lost and aimless. And then soon enough, you know what they did? They turned around and came RIGHT BACK HOME.”
600,000 wasn’t it more like 12 million?
bought to the new world including latin america
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2006/february/africanslaves.htm
i remember my professor who is white saying its estimated about 12 million people were brought from africa to the new world, including s.america, central,n.america all along the coast of the americas, the islands
i hate the go back to africa comment ,my response is i would like to go back to africa, but first im going to need about 250 years worth of reparation to be paid in full, then i’ll go back
When someone says “go back to Africa” I tell them to first go back to europe and take the white people that live in Africa with them.
Whites had the nerve to kidnap us and bring us to amerikkka along with stealing the amerikkka from the native peoples!
What they neglect to say with this retort, is that without slave labour, they wouldn’t even be here to make this statement! After being present on this continent for 400 years, most of which was through forced labour, why should blacks go back? We have just as much of a stake in this continent as any other group. Bring up the supposed living conditions pre-slavery in Africa(based upon accounts of white slavers not the slaves), colonialism in Africa(Apparently a Utopia according to the white colonialist), post-colonialism(According to whites, it went to ‘hell’), slavery in the US(the whites freed the slaves you ungrateful Negroes!), post slavery(you are the best treated blacks In the world!), and so on and so on, is used to shut down any talk of of racism in North America. If this doesn’t work they will invoke the Arab Slave Traders argument. . If that fails “Go back to Africa!”, as a last resort.
They have failed to grasp whatever was being discussed to begin with! By the way, I have had foreign -born whites who could barely string together a sentence in English shout this at me. This perception hasn’t changed much since Robert E. Lee’s day.
Look at a job application, it asks what race are you? AND it lists arabs as apart of the white group.
They have in the white race box:
White or Caucasian: any of the groups from Europe, The Middle East and North Africa.
Why are whites using the arab trader argument when they claim middle eastern people to be caucasian?
Arabs are white, in the white people’s eyes, they say so on job applications!
Whites are using their partners in crime as an example to try to excuse the slavery of africans! Stupid!
@ ErzulieRedEyes:
When someone says “go back to Africa” I tell them to first go back to europe and take the white people that live in Africa with them.
Whites had the nerve to kidnap us and bring us to amerikkka along with stealing the amerikkka from the native peoples!
Black people have made significant contributions throughout history and it’s galling that certain people believe it’s acceptable to make asinine statements such as, “Go back to Africa” or “Go back to wherever the hell you came from.”
Very insightful and spot on. Whenever I here that I just reply “Go back to Europe”. If you are not Native American, you didn’t originate from these lands.
I’ve come to the conclusion that those kinds of people don’t want to see Black people have anything and get anywhere, some actually don’t want to see Black people alive, we should shut up and leave well enough alone apparently. They quickly forget how America got its start, and how it gained, distributed and maintains its wealth. Slavery, Jim Crow, Trail of Tears, Black cannon fodder, Black, Red, Yellow, Brown lives lost building that railroad, Sundown towns, outlawing of cultures, human medical experiments, anti- Chinese groups, Sweatshops, colored soldiers (who you never hear about) who thought they’d change things by fighting in Uncle Sam’s wars only to change nothing, I could go on.
Today a lot of people want you to believe what isn’t, that America is one big Benetton ad (sans Black women that is). The whip snapping, anti-Civil Rights, foaming at the mouth America has just gone underground. We saw a tip of it during the election and you see it again now they’re turning the illegal immigration thing into some kind of “Brown problem”. No real attempt made to see pass their own noses, its disgusting.
GO BACK TO AFRICA NIGGERS!! white people LOVE saying that. LOL!!
Hello from Russia!
Can I quote a post in your blog with the link to you?
whites refuse to assert any kind of positive racial identity and have allowed radical multiculturalists like the people on this blog to define them. No Gen, America wasn’t only built on slavery. And many whites ethnics have contributed and been discriminated against. America’s history of violence and discrimination isn’t any different than most countries.
People tell you to go back to Africa not because they don’t want you here, but because you’re a hypocrite and cry baby. If you think America is so bad, why do you live here? Why would you want to live in an evil, racist country?
You want portray the Western slave trade as a key mark of whites’ unique evil. You can only do this by whitewashing Islamic slavery. But another point needs to be made as well: whites are responsible for the abolition of slavery around the world. The Enlightenment doctrine of inalienable human rights convinced whites that they were morally obligated to eradicate slavery, and they have pursued this goal with remarkable dedication for the past two centuries.
Polprav: Yes so long as you link back to the original.
“Most whites were quite fine with Jim Crow, if you remember.” If that is so, how come we don’t have Jim Crow anymore. “And even now most seem to be quite fine with failing black schools, black ghettos and high rates of black unemployment and crime (so long as it is not in their neighbourhood). Thus the kindness of white people.” Why should it be white people’s problem to fix the high rate of black crime, unemployment? If the shoe was on the other hand, would blacks help us? All of black people’s problems are self-inflictated.
That’s the great thing about being black, you don’t have to take responsibilty for being a loser….it’s just those evil white folks fault. But the more critical point missed by abagond is that both sides of this debate are so entrenched in their positions (the battle of “quit being a victim” versus “quit being a hypocritical apologist”) that nobody seems to see that both sides can co-exist.
The fact that many “urban schools” (code for “predominantly black schools”) do not have dollar-for-dollar equality with some “suburban schools” (code for “mostly white, and sometimes with high-achieving Asians or other minorities”) does not contradict the fact that in many states, some urban schools with MORE dollars per capita than suburban schools still do worse in every measure of educational achievement.
In Abagonds world, every black man who would suggest taking self-responsibility over the things one CAN control, is simply a pawn of the evil white overlord who stands in purposeful oppression of black self-awareness.Abagond is a divisive separatist who seeks to promote the ‘us against them’ mantra that continues to wall us off from one another; from communication; from healing. he carries a great talent for distributing blame.
Fewer and fewer teens (of both races) have jobs after school or on weekends. I taught in Harlem for two years, and had a stack of job applications in my desk, but none of my students got jobs. They’d fill out the application and never turn it in. Dr. Rudy Crew (former NYC schools chancellor) told me it’s the “bling-bling” culture of today; kids can’t see the connection between having beautifull things and paying for them. When it comes to teen pregnancy, they can’t see the connection with having a child and having to take care of it.
Whites are not without social ills. Instead of trying to be the star student or basketball player, white girls want to be Paris Hilton. Women are making huge accomplishements today in sports, politics, NASA, and even boxing, yet girls would rather emulate a stupid rich bimbo.
I saw the same problems in schools with black AND white kids. Your child won’t be a sucess unless you shut off the damn TV, pull the iPods out of their ears, and say “YOU WANT THESE THINGS, YOU”LL WORK FOR THEM!!!!”
If you think America is so bad, why do you live here? Why would you want to live in an evil, racist country?
Why should we? We have for the most part, been on this continent for 400 years, and therefore have a stake in it. We don’t have to ‘go back’.
Lol Abagond, how do I even post links here because I think Jane needs to read the posts about derailing and using the “Arab Slave Trader” argument.
Ok, Jane, I’ll bite. Where did you see me type that America was built only on slavery? Have nothing to say about what happened to the Native People, Asians, Latinos? The reality is that these “White ethnics” you speak of mostly came by choice and are now well assimilated and enjoy White privilege, that is your racial identity so the first line of your response doesn’t even make sense. And I really don’t feel like bothering with the rest of your response as it’s just ridiculous.
Herneith, I didn’t say you had to go back. But since you hate America so much, why would you want to live in a nation that you feel is so evil and racist? The fact is that you’re a hypocrite. As much anti-American BS you spew, I bet you wouldn’t leave this country for all the money in the world.
Jane, does Herneith rail against America, or against white racism? Seems to me it’s the latter, and if it is, your claim that Herneith “hates America so much” doesn’t make any sense.
Are you assuming (as white people so often do), that the “real Americans” are “white people”?
By the way,
Going back to back AFRICA it’s like going to HELL
Actually many black and non black folks are going to live in Africa.
Looking for better quality of life and opportunities ( that not only happens in western world, LOL!)
I have been in Cape verde , Cameroon, Nigeria, South Africa and Ivory Coast, recently and found the population of non black and black(non African) quite important and quite rich and HAPPY TO LIVE THERE like many Africans DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and for those who doesn’t know (apparently a lot do in America so in this blog), in some African countries you can find plenty Africans who are richer than some black Americans.
But of course you have to travel a bit to believe that and don’t think America is the World!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much Nubiahbelle,
You took the words out of my words.
Also, black Americans are the epitome of American, in my eyes. This country wouldn’t be what it currently is if people of African descent never graced this land. Anyone who doesn’t know that is too ignorant for words.
LOL! Myname,
That’s Nubiahbella also formely known as Nubiah!!!!!!! LOL!
and I meant “Going back to Africa it is not like going to HELL”,
Also I want to add, I still don’t understand the Go back in Africa?
I mean are we (the rest of the world) the only ones to see BLACK AMERICANS AS TRULY AMERICAN?
Do we ask the french descents in Canada to go back in France? etc….
and off topic,
Black American and Black African etc.. are not interchangeable,
We share the skin colour but we have 2 different identities, so do Black latinas etc….
Jane, me and you think alike.
Hang in there, it’s not always easy on an anti-white website….
Muscular Maximus, Should that really be “Anti-white,” or “anti-white-supremacist”?
Anti-White & Anti-White supremacist.
Doesn’t matter, it’s all the same in the end.
Muscular, Vain Maximus,
By my understanding of this web site, you’re absolutely wrong about that. To be against the abuses wrought by ongoing, de facto white supremacy is not to be automatically against white people themselves.
You have your opinion.
I have mine.
Anything against “white” in any manner is racist.
Just as if I we’re to say..”I hate ghett0 blacks. I hate the fact that they have crime ridden neighborhoods. Such violence. Such disconnect.
So, if I was against ghett0 blacks, I would be seen as in hating them all. Since people don’t like that term anyways….it’s an automatic labeling of a racist/bigot that I am.
Muscular, Vain, Uninformed Maximus,
This isn’t just a matter of opinion; facts in this matter are indeed observable by all, should they be willing to open their eyes.
Anything against “white” in any manner is racist.
In the U.S., it is factually observable that white people enslaved black people. Many whites have also discriminated against blacks afterward in countless ways, ways that continue to negatively affect and impede many black lives. To write against those ongoing effects is not the same as you saying (hypothetically?) “I hate ghetto blacks.”
As I read this web site, it’s not a place where most readers on the other side of the table from such readers as you and Jane are simply writing “I hate whites.”
“it is factually observable that white people enslaved black people.”
Why are we living in 1860?
“Many whites have also discriminated against blacks afterward in countless ways, ways that continue to negatively affect and impede many black lives.”
And blacks aren’t guilty in any sense of this at all? That all blacks are just dandy and love all whites whilst continuing to blame their shortcomings upon whites?
Look. The slavery issue is a done deal. It happened 150 years ago. Not I, or you or anyone else in this world was personally involved with slavery. I so happen to be called out because I am white.
Let me ask you.
If I change my avatar to a black man, will I still receive blame? Would I still receive blame if I posed as a black man to begin with? Of course not. Because whites can’t possibly dare judge or deem blacks as racist as well.
Wait, that’s impossible! I forgot, “the whites made us do it”. “It’s all the whites fault for the way we are”. “Whites have all the power & privilege, we can’t possibly be racist”.
As if only whites are the oppressors. As if the fact some blacks are just too d@mn lazy to do something about it. But no, they want all their problems pushed on whites. That’s the easy way out….blame whites.
Muscular, Vain, Uninformed, Unreasonably Bitter Maximus,
“it is factually observable that white people enslaved black people.”
Why are we living in 1860?
We’re not. I was responding to your fallacious claim that Anything against “white” in any manner is racist. White people enslaved black people, and they justified doing so with a claim that white people are superior to black people. Being against “white” by pointing that out is not racist. Nor, again, is pointing out the ongoing abuse of many black people by racist white individuals and racist, white-supremacist institutions.
“Many whites have also discriminated against blacks afterward in countless ways, ways that continue to negatively affect and impede many black lives.”
And blacks aren’t guilty in any sense of this at all? That all blacks are just dandy and love all whites whilst continuing to blame their shortcomings upon whites?
Not in any significant sense, significant in that if significantly affects that collective that we still call “white people.” As I wrote above, the U.S. remains a de facto white supremacist society (an observable fact that you seem yet to have observed). Most blacks I know don’t blame their “shortcomings,” whatever that means, on whites — they blame racist institutions, systems, and ideology for repeatedly impeding black lives. That said, that doesn’t mean that they blame “all,” or even most, of their problems on those white-supremacist realities.
If I change my avatar to a black man, will I still receive blame? Would I still receive blame if I posed as a black man to begin with?
If you said the same uninformed, unreasonably bitter things that you’ve said so far, yes, I think you still would.
“White people enslaved black people,***(and black people sold their own)*** and they justified doing so with a claim that white people are superior to black people.
Fixed that for ya.
“Nor, again, is pointing out the ongoing abuse of many black people by racist white individuals and racist, white-supremacist institutions.”
I concede this happens. But, you can’t say blacks don’t so the same upon hatred for whites. Everyone gets discriminated. Whites against whites, blacks/blacks, Hispanic/Hispanic, Black/White, White/Black etc. etc.
Why must it always be the “white fault”? Why don’t we hear how black people are trying to improve their neighborhoods? Why they can’t get rid of that completely disastrous and horrid music called (c)rap? Toten guns, slangin’ rocks, bustin’ a cap in yo azz, raping women, degrading women etc. Kids hear that garbage and pick up on it. It seems to affect the black community the most.
Many aspects can be improved on both sides of the ball. Complaining about it gets us nowhere. I honestly think things will never change. Some people have that hope, I tend to digress.
I believe this country is forever doomed for racial ambiguity. Thus the debate continues. The hate continues to swell.
This doesn’t help.
Why must it always be the “white fault”? Why don’t we hear how black people are trying to improve their neighborhoods? Why they can’t get rid of that completely disastrous and horrid music called (c)rap? Toten guns, slangin’ rocks, bustin’ a cap in yo azz, raping women, degrading women etc. Kids hear that garbage and pick up on it. It seems to affect the black community the most.
The largest consumer group of rap is young, suburban, white males.
Muscular, Vain, Uninformed, Unreasonably Bitter, Cynical Maximus,
“White people enslaved black people,***(and black people sold their own)*** and they justified doing so with a claim that white people are superior to black people.
Fixed that for ya.
Fixed what? All you’ve done by deploying The Arab Trader Argument is divert attention (unsuccessfully) from the fact that I refuted your claim that any anti-white statement is racist. As for the new point you’ve raised — black people sold their own — so what? That doesn’t mean that, again, it wasn’t racist for white people to enslave black people under the guise of a supposed white superiority.
But, you can’t say blacks don’t so the same upon hatred for whites. Everyone gets discriminated. Whites against whites, blacks/blacks, Hispanic/Hispanic, Black/White, White/Black etc. etc.
Sure, but as I said above, and as you’ve now conceded, discrimination against blacks and other groups at the large, vastly injurious hands of various institutional modes of white supremacy does occur, and it’s a far, far greater impediment to non-white lives than the occasional modes of discrimination faced by whites at the hands (and, significantly, not the institutions) of non-white people.
Why must it always be the “white fault”?
Why are you so sure that black people don’t discuss and fix problems on their own within their own homes and communities, problems that they don’t consider “the white fault”?
“The largest consumer group of rap is young, suburban, white males.”
Yes maybe so. But, I don’t see the bloodshed rampant throughout neighborhoods as in the black community. In the ghett0’s, this is well proven.
macon:
I concede this argument. It is going nowhere and I stand by my statements and my beliefs.
Tally up a victory for yourself. You just won one over the white man.
Maximus,
Why do you read here?
I’m not being sarcastic; I’m 100% interested in your answer, because I don’t understand why someone would spend so much time with people they seem to have a great deal of disdain for, on the Internet no less.
This goes back in part to a comment I left in another thread last week or so, when I said that I’m confused as to why people intentionally seek out things they don’t like. This blog isn’t well-known (in the general sense), it’s not on TV, not written by someone famous, etc., so you (the general you) have to go looking for it to find it. Certainly there are countless blogs that say the exact opposite of what this one says–the Internet is big enough that you can find someone who will agree with you on even the most obscure topics.
Bottom line: What do you get out of this blog?
Do you “really” want me to answer your question?
In all of it’s entirety and honesty?
Yes, I do, though maybe I should have asked why you “participate” instead.
I might respond later.
I’m not really in the mood to right now.
I’m just p!ssed. Not because of this blog, but because of personal reasons.
I’m having a bad day. So what. Guys have them to.
@Jane:
First of all Jane, I am a Black Canadian of seven generations. My family has been in Canada since 1812. White racism is not the sole domain of America. I am not going anywhere. As for criticizing white supremacy, that is my right. I am not going to be a good ‘Negress’ and turn a blind eye as to what is going on around me. Have you ever heard the phrase ‘”hate the sin but not the sinner’? Well, that is how I view this. I belong in Canada just as much as any white Canadian.
One of my best buddies is in the hospital in bad condition from a car accident.
I am completely stressed out.
I am going to go to the hospital later to hopefully see him.
Just thought I would share that.
“First of all Jane, I am a Black Canadian of seven generations. My family has been in Canada since 1812. White racism is not the sole domain of America. I am not going anywhere. As for criticizing white supremacy, that is my right. I am not going to be a good ‘Negress’ and turn a blind eye as to what is going on around me. Have you ever heard the phrase ‘”hate the sin but not the sinner’? Well, that is how I view this. I belong in Canada just as much as any white Canadian.”
That’s right! You tell her, Herneith!
Share that with me (in response to my question)? Or just with OP in general?
If you were talking to me, I’m still confused, because you are always hostile, so that seems like more than just a bad day. On the other note, this certainly doesn’t seem to be a stress-free place for you….do you combat stress with stress?
I don’t understand how having a stressful situation/having a bad day going on excuses rudeness and uncouth behavior, given that you aren’t a 5-year-old…does posting here make you feel better?
Hmm. Methinks Maximus and Jane would be an ideal couple perhaps? LOL
Pitiful.
For starters, “ones” should not have an apostrophe because it’s not a possessive, but I’m sure that manual can help you out.
Oh man I just get a kick out of seeing his shirt rip, his snout grow, and the matted fur fill in lol.
Maximus Says:
Sat 17 Oct 2009 at 23:49:35
You have your opinion.
I have mine.
Anything against “white” in any manner is racist.
Just as if I we’re to say..”I hate ghett0 blacks. I hate the fact that they have crime ridden neighborhoods. Such violence. Such disconnect.
So, if I was against ghett0 blacks, I would be seen as in hating them all. Since people don’t like that term anyways….it’s an automatic labeling of a racist/bigot that I am.”
LOL. You can use that term all you like,
cause you whiteboys travel to europe to pick up ghetto white trash all the time.
You’ll marry any toothless eastern european women even from the poor blown out neighborhoods just as long as they are white.
Jane Says:
Sat 17 Oct 2009 at 19:40:30
Herneith, I didn’t say you had to go back. But since you hate America so much, why would you want to live in a nation that you feel is so evil and racist? The fact is that you’re a hypocrite. As much anti-American BS you spew, I bet you wouldn’t leave this country for all the money in the world.”
Since YOU hate black people so much go back to Europe!
WE were kidnapped by assault and brought to amerikkka, YOU stole this land from the native peoples and had the nerve to call it manifest destiny.
Last time I checked you white people claim all blacks are thieves, yet YOU people don’t mind killing an entire group of people and taking their homes from them.
Oh my days Jasmin watch how this Maximus guys is trying to avoid your question you asked a perfectly reasonable question of “Why do you post here?” and he is giving you everything but the awnser he has taking derailing to a whole new place I never got that these people who supposedly hate black people spend all their time on the internet searching through blogs and videos and all that just to say they hate black people I will never get it some people need to get a life really it sounds very obsessive…
in the words of Mariah Carey “so why you so obessed with us?” LOL
Bullcrap.
Over the ages, white societies have evolved the most humanistic, inclusive and pluralistic societies ever devised by man.
Affirmative action, housing subsidies, massive third-world immigration- human rights comissions, hate-speech laws, diversity dogma in universities; you name it, white society provides them all. Hurricane Katrina was a disaster; but in all fairness, you can’t mention Katrina without the list above. It’s quite obvious that whites don’t let blacks “twist in the wind”.
There isn’t a single non-white society that provides even a fraction of these things for their racial minorities.
It is also no secret to many that all people’s of this world are racist. Racism is practiced all over the world; it’s not, and never has been, exclusively a white thing.
This is why it is important to visit places like China and India, south America and yes, Africa, because of the complete lack of people there who give a sh*t about any racial grievance or sensitivity that you may have. It is only in white society where you can complain to the government and receive copious amounts government assistance and legislation in response to a your complaints. Nowadays, whites are the LEAST racist people of the world and white society is the most friendly to minority races.
Don’t bother responding with “whites are so racist” it means nothing to me because I am fully aware of how racist the rest of the world is. Everyone is racist. Especially you guys.
Rycher wrote,
It is also no secret to many that all people’s of this world are racist. Racism is practiced all over the world; it’s not, and never has been, exclusively a white thing.
Who here said it was exclusively a white thing? And why do you think it’s important to point out, like a child in a schoolyard who’s been caught doing something wrong, “Well, they do it too!” Does pointing out other instances of racism make white American racism okay? (Answer: no, it doesn’t.)
You should stop undermining your own position with the simplistic Arab Trader Argument. Here, go read this, so you can come back and be taken more seriously:
The Arab Trader Argument
@macon:
Macon, this Rycher has already commented on the Arab Trader Argument post. He has provided a longer post here, the other was more brief.
abagond, ABAGOND WHERE ARE YOU?
Peanut:
The 600,000 figure that Buchanan uses is just those who came directly to the United States.
Macon D at comment #1:
Interesting. I do not take the “fundamentally benign kindness of whiteness” as a given, but I suppose many whites do, like you say.
i see the bloodshed you white people do everytime i watch SNAPPED, FORENSIC FILES, COLD CASE FILES, DATLINE, 48 HOURS damn i could go on and on.
Abagond wrote,
I do not take the “fundamentally benign kindness of whiteness” as a given, but I suppose many whites do, like you say.
Right, that you don’t is obvious, and I hope I didn’t imply that I think you do.
Jane said:
“That’s the great thing about being black, you don’t have to take responsibilty for being a loser….”
And the great thing about being white is that you almost never have to take responsibility for being a racist jerk.
Sorry, but that had to be said.
Jane:
This post is part of a series about the ways white people avoid the charge of racism. Your comments have examples of some of them that I already covered. Start here:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/how-to-argue-like-a-white-racist/
Just so you know, Rycher is the one who inspired me to write this post.
Sadly, it seems to have gone right over his head: he is still arguing that “we treat our darkies better than anyone”.
I offer the comparison to India, China, etc for some much needed perspective. If one focuses too much on blogging how many black people are on sitcoms or how many minorities are on the latest Calvin Klein billboard, one soon forgets to blog about the real injustices in the world, such as the atrocities being comitted in Sudan by the racist arab janjaweed militias on blacks.
Some food for thought: in Arabic, why is the same word (abid) used for both black and slave? Definitely some good reading.
Rycher Says:
Nowadays, whites are the LEAST racist people of the world and white society is the most friendly to minority races. “
Of course in your white mind that may be true.
Whites have never been friendly to anyone but their “own kind.”
When you aren’t using hatred and stereotypes to butter yourselves up, you are tearing down non-white people to make yourselves feel better.
You can go play sweet and innocent with somebody else, you ain’t fooling anybody here.
Rycher said:
“If one focuses too much on blogging how many black people are on sitcoms [...] one soon forgets to blog about the real injustices in the world, such as the atrocities being comitted in Sudan by the racist arab janjaweed militias on blacks.”
I am fully capable of blogging on both:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/the-blackness-of-american-television/
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/darfur/
You have to sink that low – to compare America to Darfur to make it seem good? That is pretty sad. That is your “perspective”? That black Americans should count their blessings that at least they are still alive?
Jane said:
“And even now most seem to be quite fine with failing black schools, black ghettos and high rates of black unemployment and crime (so long as it is not in their neighbourhood). Thus the kindness of white people.” Why should it be white people’s problem to fix the high rate of black crime, unemployment?
What about because they are Americans? Your fellow countrymen? Or is America only for white people? Or do only white people count, like back in slave times?
You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth: First you call Herneith a hypocrite for not seeing how kind whites are to blacks but when I point out that they have been less than kind, you ask why should they be kind? Which is not how kindness talks.
I have never been to Africa but I suspect it is better than most Americans imagine simply because all we hear about Africa in the States is the bad news: plague, famine and war – Aids, hungry children, boy soldiers, etc. The continent could not support a billion people if that was all that was going on.
Abagond: “You have to sink that low – to compare America to Darfur to make it seem good? That is pretty sad. That is your “perspective”? That black Americans should count their blessings that at least they are still alive?”
No. I am raising the issue of Darfur to contrast it against your regular blog topics which focus on things that seem quite trivial relative to the horror of Darfur and given the many concessions that whites provide to minorities.
If whites were as bad as this blog makes them out to be, millions and millions of non-whites would not be flocking to white nations. If whites were so evil and racist, they would simply apply a Japanese style immigration system, which wouldn’t allow anyone to become a full blown citizen except whites.
I noticed you posted two links in response to my previous post: the sitcom post and the darfur post. I noticed something interesting: **why did your sitcom post contain 38 comments, while your Darfur post currently shows ZERO comments?** Perhaps this is a little telling of your readership? Perhaps the topic is a little too inconvenient given the popular white-bashing that is so required on this blog?
It seems as if trivial matters of race in white society are more abhorrent to people here then serious issues of race in non-white society. The average topic on this blog seems to confirm this.
I wrote that post on Darfur two years ago back when I had hardly any readers. A fairer comparison would be the one I wrote last June about the genocide in South Sudan:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/the-genocide-in-southern-sudan/
That got six comments. That is half of the mean for this blog (11 comments per post), which for a post on foreign news is not bad.
Years ago I was telling my girlfriend about South Sudan. This was while the genocide was in progress (but getting little Western press). She gave me a strange look like I was ranting (probably I was). Then she said, “Why do you care about what goes on there? What difference does it make to YOU?” I think that is the approach most people in North America take to foreign news.
Rycher said:
“… concessions that whites provide to minorities”
Justice is now a favour?
Rycher said:
“If whites were as bad as this blog makes them out to be, millions and millions of non-whites would not be flocking to white nations.”
People come to white countries not because white people are so loving and kind and fair and just and wonderful and tra-la-la but because work there pays way better.
Poverty is a worse evil than racism. It especially seems that way when you have experienced poverty but have yet to experience racism.
But just because poverty is worse than racism that does not make racism a “trivial” concern.
“If whites were so evil and racist, they would simply apply a Japanese style immigration system, which wouldn’t allow anyone to become a full blown citizen except whites.”
Please. White countries let in people of colour to screw them because they can get away with underpaying them.
@abagond:
I have never been to Africa but I suspect it is better than most Americans imagine simply because all we hear about Africa in the States is the bad news: plague, famine and war – Aids, hungry children, boy soldiers, etc. The continent could not support a billion people if that was all that was going on.
If it doesn’t sell newspapers then the Western press will not report on it, at least as a major news event. Look at Rwanda. It wasn’t until hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered that it started to become ‘front page’ news. The same with Darfur. Any African country that is functional and successful in governance or stability, you don’t hear about them. In most cases. You have to seek out information yourself via personal contacts and the media(African media etc). The internet is a wonderful thing!
http://www.abyznewslinks.com/afric.htm
You’re so very very wrong. Consider this one (of many) example:
Denise Milani, a black woman in the UK was given the following “job”. She was appointed as the “Head of the Metropolitan Police’s Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate, and she is given 75,000 pounds annually. Thats roughly $122,250 USD.
Not too shabby eh? Don’t forget all the fancy benefits that come with these types of “jobs”. And I’m sure that whatever she does to fill 8 hours a day probably isn’t very hard. In fact, she probably does mostly nothing except push a few papers and ramble about “social justice”. But she makes quite a bit more than a general physician would in my city
.
((Despite the fact that she’s living the good life, her son has still been brought up on charges of sexually assaulting women on commuter trains. But thats another story.))
Look around white society; there are thousands of Denise Milani’s living the good life because white society is more benevolent and more welcoming than any previous society has ever been. So when you say that whites just let in non-whites so they can “screw” them, consider the Denise Milanis and realize just how absurd your statement really is.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221176/Yard-diversity-chief-s-son-faces-trial-sex-attacks-Tube-26-year-old-court-offences-commuter-trains.html#ixzz0URphKj04
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221176/Yard-diversity-chief-s-son-faces-trial-sex-attacks-Tube-26-year-old-court-offences-commuter-trains.html
So Denise Milani is anecdotal evidence of what? That most black people in Britain are overpaid and underworked compared to white people? I find that hard to believe. Are their government numbers to back up this claim?
And just what is the point of bringing up her son? I do not understand that unless you assume that black people are GUILTY TILL PROVEN INNOCENT!
@Abagond…
You might like to know that:
- Patricia Hewitt who was ‘given’ the role of health secretary.. son was recently charged with Possession of Cocaine: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1214948/Patricia-Hewitts-son-charged-cocaine-possession.html
Ken MacDonald who was ‘given’ the job of Director of Public Prosecution (where of course he only has to ‘push paper’) had drugs convictions http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/new-head-of-cps-has-drugs-and-speeding-convictions-535861.html
Jeffery Archer a multimillionaire author was given a peerage – where quite frankly you do bugger all and don’t even have to go to the house to vote (only on exceptions) and he commited fraud and perjury whilst a serving member of the house: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1447880.stm
(His wife to was investigated)
Jonathan Aitken: who was ‘given’ a seat and ministerial position… still couldn’t help from commiting fraud, taking bribes and committing perjury and got sent to prison…
I guess it ain’t just black folk and their families …right…..
@Rycher:
First of all, the Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper that thrives on sensationalism and which celebrity is humping who, which celebrity lost fifty pound in a week, which regularly rails against what it perceives as ‘political correctness’ ,which rails against immigrants and refugees and so on and so on. I read this tabloid online frequently and have bought copies of it when I come across a copy of it. I greatly enjoy the ‘Femail’ section(which I find comical and entertaining, sort of like reading a satirical magazine/newspaper), which is chock full of celebrity gossip but so’s the National Enquirer. The only difference being that the Daily Mail throws in ‘political commentary’ and ‘news for good measure. Headlines such as;
City Lawyer Swindles Bank out of 7 million pounds then paid off mortgage and had breast implants
or hows’ this one?
Briton named as world’s heaviest man warned to ‘lose weight or die’ as he balloons to 70 stone
This one is particularly ‘informative’
,Shocking images of girl gang kicking a male victim in drunken attack which left him with a footprint on his face.
If you quote the ‘The Mirror” another British Tabloid to prove your points, than I know you are nothing but full of sh*t.
I perused the other British Newspapers and this is the only one that made mention of this women. Oh yes and when Googled, this woman and her son were made mention of on sites such as ’stormfront’, Chimp out and other sites of this ilk. They all referenced the Daily Mail Article when posting their comments.
As for this woman you use for your ‘example’ of non-whites benefiting from white benevolence, wonders of wonders, she was born and raised in England! Are you saying she is not entitled to employment? Who are you to determine this?
As for her son being charged and sent to trial, he hasn’t been convicted of the alleged complaints, why bring this up? Is she guilty by association? Did she spur her son on? What’s your point? What does it have to do with this woman’s job and her race? If you wanted to use her as an example of non-whites benefiting from white benevolence, you should have just left it at that.
According to your own, more reputable newspapers, there is a ‘race’ problem in the UK institutional and otherwise. Using examples of a few racialized people in ‘high positions does not qualify as an example of how benevolent and inclusive your society is.
Please. In the future please refrain from using tabloid fodder as your references. There is enough references on the internet, library etc, available which are more illustrative of the state of race relations in predominantly white societies.
Good comments, Soul and Herneith!
I think I get it now: Denise Milani is like Barack Obama: a black person in high position who “proves” that whites are not racist. But in her case she is clearly undeserving because she is guilty by association to charges of an unproved crime. You know how those black people are, etc.
He seems to think whites are fools NOT to be racist.
Rycher, you got to do better than this.
Abagond,
I just read about what you are talking about in the comment above in Tim Wise’s book “Between Barack and a Hard Place.” It talks a lot about Racism 2.0, which is what many White people (including some commenters on this blog) participate in. Wise talks about “exceptionalism” and how many Whites hold someone like Pres. Obama up as an exception (and a reason to say the US is no longer racist) while maintaining negative beliefs about Blacks in general. I highly suggest you read the book (I really liked it, though I did have some disagreements with Wise), and it would be great if you did a post on it.
There are TONS of Denise Milanis all over white society. So Abagond, when you make the claim that “whites just let in non-whites to SCREW them or pay them less” it shows that you are quite ignorant of the plethora of cushy over-paid jobs given to minorities on the backs of hard-working taxpayers. I could provide an endless list of minorities given the same types of jobs as Mrs. Milani.
Denise Miliani is anecdotal evidence of white society bending over backward to appease the racial sensitivities of minorities; these institutional contortions are found nowhere else the world.
The principal premise of this blog is how racist, cruel, stupid, and clueless whites are with respect to non-whites.
@Jasmine:
I have watched youtube segments with Tim Wise. I’ve not read any of his books though. I am going to the States on Sunday for a couple of weeks so will have to look out for it and some of his other books! Can you get it at most chain bookstores like Boarders? Thanks for the info.
And I think that premise needs some serioius re-evaluation given today’s trends.
Rycher said:
“you are quite ignorant of the plethora of cushy over-paid jobs given to minorities on the backs of hard-working taxpayers. I could provide an endless list of minorities given the same types of jobs as Mrs. Milani.”
Here are the British government’s numbers:
West Indians compared to whites in Britain, to take an example:
1. West Indian men are 3.5 times more likely to be out of work than white British men.
2. West Indians are 53% more likely to live in poverty.
3. West Indian men make 88% of of what white men make in hourly pay for full-time work.
Details:
In 2004 the unemployment rate among white British men was 4%. For Black Caribbean men it was 14%.
In 2002-2005, the poverty rate for whites was 15%. For Black Caribbeans it was 23%. (For Pakistanis and Bangladeshis it is 52%).
To Britain’s credit, hourly pay is more equal by race than in America, but whites still make more: for those in full-time work during 2001 to 2005 white men made an average 11.88 pounds an hour, Black Caribbean men 10.50.
Rycher said:
“And I think that premise needs some serioius re-evaluation given today’s trends.”
My premises:
1. Thomas Jefferson: All men are created equal.
2. Lord Acton: Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Which one needs updating? How would you update them?
Jasmin: Thanks for the recommendation.
@abagond..
nope I don’t think you’ve fully gotten it yet..
If you don’t mind I’d like to elaborate.
See, it’s like this:
1) Any time a minority busts their behind, working through the ranks and overcomes the unbelievable obstacles set in their path and gets a job which is usually reserved for a white person..then that black [person was given that job.
2) When a white politician commits any of the following: fraud, rape, sex crimes, perjury, bribery, corruption, abuse of public funds, then politicians are simply corrupt.
However any black politician who does anything similar to what his colleagues are doing represents his entire race.
3) When a point can’t easily be proven, racists seek far away countries with black populations to prove their point. They seem to think that no-one else woill be aware of that farway country and it’s politics.
4) Do not bother showing examples of similar crimes to them. It will fly over their head or they’ll simple ignore it thinking it will make the fact go away.
Obviously there’s more to this list but it’s late in good ole blighty and I’ve got a comic book to get through.. oh as well as planning my next trip to the continent of Africa. Alas I can’t travel the entire continent so I’ll simply stop off at just one country.
ooops.. p.s. don’t say that to loudly, don’t think these erm people know that Africa is a continent.
Herneith,
I ordered my book off of Amazon, since I needed it for a class, but it is pretty new (written post-Obama’s election), so I bet you can find it in Borders. I had some agreements and some disagreements, so I’d love to discuss it with you (promise we won’t hijack your blog, Abagond).
@Jasmin:
Thanks Jasmin, I found it on sale at the chain booskstore here so I will probably buy it tomorrow. Best of all it is on sale, 24% off totalling 11.36CAD!
What fool keeps talking about affirmative action?
I never got anything handed to me i apply for jobs and hardly ever get chosen even if its entry level.
A white or latino will get hired over me.
What affirmative action?
Rycher Says:
Tue 20 Oct 2009 at 19:09:01
There are TONS of Denise Milanis all over white society. So Abagond, when you make the claim that “whites just let in non-whites to SCREW them or pay them less” it shows that you are quite ignorant of the plethora of cushy over-paid jobs given to minorities on the backs of hard-working taxpayers. I could provide an endless list of minorities given the same types of jobs as Mrs. Milani.
Denise Miliani is anecdotal evidence of white society bending over backward to appease the racial sensitivities of minorities; these institutional contortions are found nowhere else the world.
The principal premise of this blog is how racist, cruel, stupid, and clueless whites are with respect to non-whites.”
First of all, you ain’t black so who the hell are you to tell us what descrimination black people go through?
Every time i apply for a job a white or latino gets chosen over me, even in entry level jobs.
Tell your fellow white folk to quit the white selectiveness and start hiring everyone and then maybe we won’t be complaining.
Erzulie Red Eyes said:
“What fool keeps talking about affirmative action?
I never got anything handed to me i apply for jobs and hardly ever get chosen even if its entry level.
A white or latino will get hired over me.
What affirmative action?”
LOL. Right, it is more like the opposite.
Hi abagond…I’m ready to say something intellectual.
When I hear the phrase (command) “Go back to Africa [ya ungrateful blackie!], more than being a long reflection about the glorious generosity of whites, I hear, “Fuck you and whatever you have to say.”
An important point has yet to be mentioned in these comments–the fact that the comment, aside from being bizarrely racist, is also just plain hurtful. It connotes, smugly, that if you have a problem go somewhere away from the listener, to a place where you can squat with other whiney victims.
As for the gentleman by the name of Maximus, I completely understand your line of thinking, I really do, and I say that with no sarcasm, no ego, and no anger. But, I would like to respectfully disagree with you on some of your points with one very real, tangible fact: every institution that runs this country, from the Executive Branch of the government down to the police, is majority white, majority heterosexual, majority American (needless to say), and majority male. This is what constitutes what is called “institutional power” and this is why white people have all of the money and all of the political power. Everything economic hinges on the power of white.
White people are not willingly drowning themselves in the stories of black people uplifting black people. You complain that you do not hear stories of black people lifting up their communities, but have you bothered to seek out such stories? If not, why not? I live in the same country that you live in, and I understand how unavoidable the commercialized blackness of big booty hos and gun-carrying thugs is. It is how black people are perceived. Part of it is, without question, the doing of black people. I know some loose black girls that have babies and men that don’t take care of business, I do. But what happens is that the white-run media (an institution with more control than any of us realizes) takes this image of black people, finds others like it, and that is the black person they expect to see.
I have a four-year degree from a prestigious college, and I am still addressed as “girl” and “girlfriend.” Neither of those, as I’m sure you realize, are my name.
I think that what macon d was trying to convey to you is the fact that it almost doesn’t matter if every single black person got up, went to college, and became coorperate attorneys, we would still be defending in front of a white jury, listening to a white judge, in a court room pack with mostly white people for the simple fact that white people are the majority.
Please don’t forget that in several years, when the new majority is supposed to be Latino, as mentioned before, every institution that runs the United States will still be majority white, majority heterosexual, and majority male, still granting whites all of the institutional power, still making white the “right” way to be. If this is not true when the United States is majority Latino, I owe you a big apology and dinner out.
To the gentleman by the name of Rycher: I think that you argue very intelligently, but you have flown right over the point that (I believe) you were trying to make, that white people are “bending over,” in effect submitting, to racial pressure. If this is the case, why hasn’t every poor colored person with a sob story been awarded a job? How many are there like Milani who do not actually qualify for their positions? And I do not mean that they were handed the position on a silver platter, I mean how many worked diligently to move upward socially and economically and were granted this over a white person because the public white employer felt “pressured?”
Rycher, I just can’t believe that there are as many as you say.
Those high-ranking social positions aren’t given away like candy to WHITE PEOPLE, so how is it that suddenly there is a legitimate threat of an unqualified person of color stealing it in EVERY scenario? It honestly doesn’t make sense, and, forgive me, sounds more paranoid than truthful.
And, just to play Devil’s Advocate (against myself, I realize), if there truly were a great many people of color in high-ranking social positions, like the one Milani occupies, as a visible cave-in to public pressure, then first of all you still have nothing to be concerned about, because the other 95% of positions like that are still held by qualified individuals, whatever their color. Second of all, when she leaves the position, I bet MY LIFE that they will not fill it with another black body (since this is all she is, assuming that “they” just “gave it to her”).
I don’t mean to stereotype you, whatever your ethnicity, but at the core of that argument is an advert reference to what is called in the United States “The Urban Takeover,” white America’s fear mass of savage black and brown people simultaneously conquering both suburbia and corporate America, filling the suburbs with violence and the corporate world with the corrupt and idiotic. Please tell me if you think that I am wrong, please do.
But I can’t help but to hear this Urban Takeover in your posts. It’s honestly a little chilling.
And just another personal opinion: I would have looked at the employer cock-eyed if a white person had been chosen to be the principle of ANY diversity outreach program, unless they had a substantial experience with such a delicate area.
No, I do not mean to imply that every black Tom, Dick, and Harry is more qualified than an Oxford-trained white person.
But if this Oxford-trained white person hasn’t experienced any sort of institutional racism, but Harry could write a book about the number of times he applied for an entry level position but was turned down or ignored…tell me what you think. I do not feel that my line of thinking is skewed by my experiences as an educated black woman, but instead enhanced.
~*~ Pretty Star, OA
@Alexandria:
Excellent post! Very well said!
Wasn’t it a black person named Marcus Garvey who started that back to africa movement.
True, but “Go back to Africa” when it comes from the mouths of white people is not about moving to another continent but about their kindness. If anything, Garvey disproves their argument by calling their bluff.
I had no idea there was such thing as “go back to Africa” argument. It makes no sense, it’s igrnorant, racist and disrespectful (towards black people and Native Americans).
However, I am not quite sure poverty (unless it’s extreme) is worse than racism.
I am a white South African wishing to start my own business. I did not grow up in a rich family. Not one bank want’s to give me a loan because of Black Economic Empowerment crap. They only give big loans to blacks. I was about 10 years old when apartheid ended. I only realized what apartheid was when I was about 17 years old. I have never done anything to any black person. I have no intention to either. But what they are doing to limit us and our freedom to personal economic freedom makes me sick.
They promised all whites freedom during talks with the apartheid government. They showed that they cannot be trusted.
Me starting my own business is not taking from the poor black man. It is good for the economy instead, but they would rather give that up so they can feel better for making things difficult for us.
I can say that I have been discriminated against by the ANC government for being white, I have to sit and listen to their open hate speech towards us everyday on news channels. Whites this, whites that. They blame all their shortfalls on us. We don’t get the billions in tax money ANC(blacks). You do.
In our headlines at the moment all the newspapers are reporting on how black ministers departments spent up to R 137 000 000, approx 10000000 pound on travelling. What about the poor?
Whites don’t do anything to blacks. They just wan’t to continue their business with one another and live out their lives without being nasty to a poor good black man or have anything or as kittle as possible to do with them, because it creates problems. If blacks dislike working for whites, go work for a black men.
As far as I’m concerned they should just leave us alone. You hate us don’t you? Don’t get involved with our money making ( because you can do better, create wealth in your communities). Let’s see how that goes. We made the Rand. Make something of your own. Trade with cattle or something. We don’t talk to you, we don’t help you or at least I don’t because you all support those bastards(politicians) that sing about killing me and how bad I am. You believe them, you feel the same way You don’t know me, but I know your type.
I have had
1. 6 car break-ins (probably whites)
2. 1 car stolen (probably whites)
3. 1 friend shot in front of his wife and 3 year old boy.(3 black men)
4. Nevermind this line
5. I had a friend shot in front of a night club, no apparent reason(group of black men)
6. A female friend raped repeatedly(by 5 young black males)
7. Parents house cleaned out. (probably a white guy)
8. Friends apartment robbed on the 2nd story of a flat block.(2 black men) Climed up the front of the building aremed with 9mm’s. Can you believe it.
6. When I was staying in the same flat I saw my curtain move in the early morning hours. I grabbed it. Was definately a black arm in my hand.
7. Got broken into in our Pretoria house and nearly cleaned out.(probably a bad white man).
8. My ucle was shot and left for dead. He recalled a black male on the scene, no shit.
9. Another Uncle and my Aunt was fired upon on a hi-way with an assauted rifle in an attempt to stop them. (definately a black man)
8. My brother was nearly hi-jacked the other night.(black man).
And then up to date nearly 3000 white farmers have lost their lives. It’s cheaper to kill them than to buy their land, don’t you agree ANC. Just keep it very quiet.
That was just me and my little world. There are 6 million more of us. Imagine the stories.
I think we can see the picture here. When white people start making hard earned money. Black politicians tell them whites are taking money from them and it is rightfully theirs (economic wise). Blacks must be very racist because 80% of them vote for these politicians who spew hate speech and the ANC are still in power.
That’s what whites did. We stole their money and gave them AIDS.
Maybe we commit the sin of making money in Africa but at least we don’t murder, rape and blame crime on poverty. A empty stomach doesn’t make you wan’t to screw or kill. Or at least it doesn’t make me want to.
I really wish all of us can move to Europe. I’m sure everone will eventually if that was possible.
Africa hates white people. No matter what we do to make things right, they will always hate white people deep inside. They even hate other black tribes. Thay hate everything except those things the West can provide.
Troll! Take your lies and choke on them!
Go back to Europe and stay away from black people,
we ain’t in love with you.
@ WhiteSA
That’s funny, from your pic I would never have described you as a white South African. Try Colored. Of the Cape Town coloreds.
That’s not a sun tan, more melanin! Ok ok I digress lol
As a ‘White’ South African :smdh: typically you’ve glossed over what your fellow whites got up to before the government told you all where to shove your white previlege!
3000 white farmers killed huh? Tragic, but out of curiosity you wouldn’t happen to have a toll on how many BLACK farmers were killed during apartheid now would you??
It’s tough that things suck for whites in SA, my black South African father was in exile in Canada when I’m sure your lot was revelling on being white in SA. Like you I didn’t know what aparthied was until we were forced to leave.
I will agree with you though on the dismal crime rate, the tribal squabbling and corrupt Government officials, but it’s WHITES that hate Africa!! That’s another topic altogether.
The problem with a lot of you white South Africans is that you’re too self serving to have an honest debate about race and history, too self centred to be fair. I’ve lost family members to White south Africans in power. They weren’t poor or thugs, but educated people, teachers, professors and lawyers that dared to oppose that regime and paid with their lives, The rest of us are dispersed all over the world!
You’ll have to excuse me if I have little sympathy for your plight!