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This is the thread where you can never be off topic! Well, almost never. The rest of the Comment Policy applies, though.

Please put YouTube links in parentheses like so:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlTG4yVByY)

Scroll down a bit to see the links to the archived open threads.

768 Responses

  1. A new Open Thread!!

    Like


  2. @ Kiwi

    “I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on Asians vs. Jews in entertainment, particularly in regards to both groups’ relationship with whiteness.”

    In terms of mainstream Hollywood fare, I think Asian Americans will find themselves in pretty much the same position as Blacks.

    Jews, like Humphrey Bogart and William Shatner, are White enough to play “all American” characters. Asians and Blacks, unless they can be seen as pretty much White (like Keanu Reeves), will mostly be stuck playing Asians and Blacks. And most of those characters will be sidekicks and stereotypes written by White screenwriters. Asians will have much better luck behind the camera as film directors and so on.

    The trouble is that Whites, unlike all other Americans, are not used to identifying with a lead character of another race. Partly this is cultural conditioning as the “target demographic” that is constantly catered to, partly this is because of dehumanizing stereotypes they have about other races. For example, Asian men are stereotyped as perpetual foreigners and as less masculine. That makes it hard for them to play a crossover lead in a serious drama (as opposed to comedy and action films where you do not have to be seen as fully human).

    Recommended reading:
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/the-four-kinds-of-humans/

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/david-carradine/

    Like


  3. This convo is carried over from the previous Open Thread.

    @ Sharina:

    Kiwi & Leigh

    First thank you leigh for the suggestions. I am pretty big on Asian music. Right now I have been into g-dragon and 2ne1.

    I will admit I was really shocked to see so many Asian entertainers on youtube. After listening to the media and society tell you how Asians are, it is really good to see how they really are. Most if not all of which should have hit it big and taken over the entertainment world a long time ago. Even with today more Asians should be seen on tv than they are. It is hard to deny that them not being white does not play a major role in this.

    You’re more than welcome, Sharina. 🙂 Girl, I didn’t know you were into K-pop music. How long have you been into this kind of music? I’ve liked K-pop/hip hop/R&B for fifteen years now way before K-pop started gaining recognition around the world. 😎

    Anyway, what ticks me off is that there are plenty of talented Asians and other POC, but you never get to see them simply because they supposedly don’t have that white appeal. It boggles my mind that some white entertainers/singers like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber, who can’t sing for sh*t, land major record deals. And here you have gifted POC struggling to get noticed on YouTube in the hopes that they’ll get signed.

    Ok Ok Jeremy “Passion” Manongdo just stole my heart!

    IKR! I love his voice! Since you like Passion, may I also suggest JR Aquino. He’s also quite good.

    (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHy98AHH4TX3gJ00p1eVFZg)

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  4. ^ What?! That’s nuts. What’s so good about white sperm anyway? (It’s a rhetorical question.) I noticed the OP in that thread mentioned her son living in Singapore. I have heard some Singaporean women seek white men or angmohs as they are termed so they can have that Eurasian baby. It seems Eurasian looks are coveted over there, but not just there. It also happens in part of SE Asia like Thailand and the Philippines. I didn’t bother to read the entire thread, it was too disturbing.

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  5. @Legion

    what “should” my hypothetical blog be about?

    I don’t know, seems like you are really into Chomsky. Maybe you can imagine what kind of blog his disciple would have and consider that.

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  6. The trouble is that Whites, unlike all other Americans, are not used to identifying with a lead character of another race.

    But can they identify with a lead character of another race if it is actually played by a white person?

    I am thinking of all the popular yellowface performances with lead characters that were Asian, but played by white actors (thinking of movies like “Dragonseed”).
    We don’t even have them any more (well, not much).

    We still have “redface” roles.

    If there is a lead Asian role, it it played by a NON-American actor (e.g., Jacky Chan).

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  7. Plug in for Miles Ahead, the Miles Davis not-necessarily-a-biopic feature film shooting this month! I am a filmmaker and I’ve been reading Abagond since 2010. I’m not sure if he knows about it or not but there is an Indigogo campaign to support the film and I’m sending links out everywhere to get the word out! Hopefully, the great blogger and other bloggers here will help spread the word.
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/join-miles-ahead-a-don-cheadle-film

    Like


  8. leigh204

    I have not been into k-pop as long as I have j-pop (14 year). I have only been in to k-pop for about 2 years now. I found them on youtube and never turned back. I listen to it in my car in hopes it will gain some type of recognition here.

    That is what gets me. You have Asians on youtube making better quality music and performing of better quality and none of them are getting serious breaks in the way that people like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber.

    Like


  9. I know the codes for italic and bold. How do you code for quoted material? Sorry, I guess I just don’t get out much.

    Like


  10. @ Richard_III:

    In the past, I’ve tried demonstrating how to quote on here, but I’m not exactly HTML savvy so it never works out for me. LOL. Here’s how to do it, though. Hope it works out for you. 🙂

    Like


  11. @ Sharina:

    leigh204

    I have not been into k-pop as long as I have j-pop (14 year). I have only been in to k-pop for about 2 years now. I found them on youtube and never turned back. I listen to it in my car in hopes it will gain some type of recognition here.

    I play K-pop music all the time, and I have people telling me it sounds weird. I don’t get it. If they actually took the time to listen, they’d learn that a lot of it sounds similar, or at least I happen to think so, to American pop music. Just in a different language. *shrugs*

    That is what gets me. You have Asians on youtube making better quality music and performing of better quality and none of them are getting serious breaks in the way that people like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber.

    Exactly. Speaking of Justin Bieber, the backup singers he used to tour with him were Filipino and they sang CIRCLES around him.

    Here’s a version of Justin Bieber’s “Baby” by Legaci with Cathy Nguyen and Traphik.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUAPksxTDPQ)

    And please check out this other Filipina singer who sang the same song, but even better because she did rapper Ludacris’ part at the end. She killed it, Sharina!

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdEd9DJpjMo)

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  12. @leigh204
    THANK YOU.

    Like


  13. @ Richard_III:

    You’re welcome. 🙂

    Like


  14. It’s time for some nineties madness 🙂

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_4l7bFKJk)

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  15. @King:

    Omigosh! Talk about bringing it alllll back! Who can forget the House Party movies with Kid ‘n Play? Dang, and who can forget Kid’s super hi-top fade. lol! Ahh, good times! 😀

    Like


  16. Haha! Good times. 🙂

    Like


  17. @ Peanut:

    leigh your avatar is so pretty

    Thank you! 🙂 It’s a picture of me with my sister except I cropped her out. LOL! I don’t usually wear make-up or a lot of it, and for my birthday last year, my sister wanted me to have a make-over at the MAC counter. I felt so pretty afterwards so she had her husband take a picture of us.

    are you married now btw leigh?

    Yes, I married my beloved a few months ago. Cheesy, I know. I’m just really happy these days. 😀

    Like


  18. The genocidal and racist origins of American Eugenics which inspired the Nazis, and is still going on in the United States today.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO5XFGK231w)

    Like


  19. Yay! I new thread. I had to share this fun/sweet new webseries, of course whatever Issa Rae has her hands in turns to pure gold. Enjoy 😀

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  20. @ Peanut:

    congratulations leigh! and good for you for coming back. I hope that I’ll be able to come back to abagond’s when/IF i ever get married

    Thanks so much! Even before I married, I wanted to come back earlier, but I faced a personal situation in which two people I cared about had cancer. And they needed me. The saddest thing of all, they both passed away. Cancer is a b*tch. Seeing loved ones like my mom, aunt, and family friend gradually wasting away is something I would never wish on my worst enemy.

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  21. @ Peanut

    Okay. God willing, it will go up Wednesday or Thursday.

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  22. leigh204

    Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. You kinda opened the door to some different performers and I have been hooked. LOL.

    As to K-pop, yes it does sound the same (I would say better). I will say that once they make it over here the quality of the music falls apart to me. Wonder girls made it over here and one of their songs was on the radio a year or so back. It was just too pop mainstream compared to the music they were making in Korea.

    Like


  23. Elliot Rodger would make a very interesting post and would fit well with this blog.

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  24. This is for those who think the school to prison pipeline, isn’t real for black children. Black children as young as 3 years old!

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/politics/2014/07/02/ctn-pkg-sidner-pre-school-to-prison-pipeline.cnn.html

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  25. @ jefe, Eliot Rodger would definitely make an interesting post.
    We were talking about him before, and I didn’t get round to answering you properly.

    What we (you, Kiwi, munu, me, King) brought out in our previous discussion might just be the tip of the iceberg.

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  26. Suspension for 3-yr olds is ridiculous.

    But the report implied that it wasn’t just black kids suspended (although their numbers are disproportionately high at least compared to whites).

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  27. @Bulanik,

    It is creepy for me, because I think I can understand what might have been going through his head.

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  28. @ Jefe: You know what — I don’t think you’re alone in that.

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  29. His rage was something that reminded me of my brother’s when he was younger…

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  30. @Kiwi,
    Yet you seem not to empathize with what your Aunt’s sons’ experience. Did you understand why Rodger felt compelled to kill his own brother (as an unfortunate, but necessary act)?

    Did you get bullied a lot when you were pre-teen and teenager?

    Anyhow, I can see some of those commenters sowing the seeds of adolescent rage.in their kids. I wish they would consider listening more than just lecturing.

    I think DJ had his own unresolved rage from his adolescent past. That is why he was attracted here.

    @Bulanik,
    I think my brother had that rage. Well, I guess I did too, So did my father. But we each found our (very different) ways to adjust to it, and it tore me and my brother apart.
    If you recall the exchange we had about two years ago discussing something that Abagond said that made us feel uncomfortable (when he asked us to write a guest post)? Facing that that daily rain of treatment and attitude that can drive someone nuts.

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  31. @ Jefe

    Sure, I remember that conversation and how “uncomfortable” it was.
    How could we forget?
    And, facing that daily rain (sometimes so complex, words won’t do) can’t be forgotten either, can it?

    @ Kiwi, that difference you describe perfectly understandable, and I get what you mean.

    There’s no way the great majority of people could emphasize with Eliot Rodger’s murderous behaviour.

    Attacking people and feeling entitled that he could do that — and kill — were hardly the actions of someone in his right mind.
    Even so, the particular factors that tormented him are felt by many who would not and could not even conceive of causing any harm to others.

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  32. Abagond: I don’t know if you are interested but there is a show on WE channel called “The Divide” you might be interested. It is about the “Innocence Project. And “racism” is plays a huge part in this drama. I think it is inspired by a true story.

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  33. Abagond: “The Divide” airs tonight.

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  34. Abagond: The Divide airs tonight @9pm. Nia Long is in it, if you are interested.

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  35. @Kiwi,

    In light of half white/half Asian people being unkind towards me due to my race, how am I supposed to empathize with that behavior?

    Exactly. That is why I am trying to understand how you see where he is coming from. Do you understand why he felt compelled to kill a few young Chinese-American men that he knew personally (why he resented full-blooded Chinese in particular) and white women, as well as contemplating killing his own English-Morroccan brother? You said that you have “been there”.

    I really think I can “empathize” with that feeling (although of course, I would never actually contemplate it). I cannot “sympathize” with it. I think any mental health professional that would be in a position to help him would have to be able to empathize with him to some extent. Maybe that is one reason all that psychological counseling was not doing much good. They didn’t understand what he was going through.

    @Bulanik,
    Yes, it is a daily rain, and I had to find solutions to deal with that.

    People said the same thing about me as a teenager re: (“others tried to be friendly with him, but he rebuffed them or remained aloof”). I was trying to figure out why the other Asian-white kids in my school didn’t get bullied all the time and at the time, I figured out that the other kids didn’t think about their being Asian, as they had white military Dads. They had Anglo surnames and only showed up in public with their white dads.

    I thought Elliot Rodger should be able to escape that treatment as his mother was not around, but I realize that he is the “next generation” and the environment is now somewhat different. When I was a child, interracial dating and marriage was extremely rare. Such couples or families would draw attention or even scorn in public. The only white men / Asian women families you saw were military. But what he have now is serious Asian male basing by Asian women in front of white men (something not as common when I was a child). I suspect that Elliott picked up those cues from early childhood. Then he gets beat up and bullied, but he sees his half-brother escaping the same treatment (of Asian male bashing and white bullying). I can *empathize* with how he hates the world and sees it stacked against him.

    Mine is different from his, but I can see how it built up and what I did to escape it. There are constructive solutions – don’t have to go out on a killing spree.
    I still experienced bullying in the workplace up until I was in my early 30s. I had other problems too – I was a stutterer.

    I went to see psychologists in my late teens and in my 20s. They were all but useless. And I think it is partially because they could not “empathize”. Sometimes, I think I should go out and help the other Elliott Rodgers out there before they cause harm.

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  36. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by “racial sentiments” then, because you then say that you cannot understand (and I am using the word feeling “empathy”, or the “the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.”) for the racial rage that he was experiencing.

    I would say that I can understand (yes, even “empathize” with) the racial sentiments, including the racial rage that he felt for Asian American men, white women, and his half brother. However, I do not sympathize with it at all, and of course I do not empathize with the escalation of the racial rage into motivation for mass homicide.

    So when you say understood his racial sentiments, I thought that would mean you understand why he feels rage towards Asian men, white women, and half-siblings who are better able than he to pass as white (even among his own parents). But in the past, you seemed perplexed that, for example, your male hapa cousins expressed negative sentiments towards you, or you depicted their behavior as some sort of “character flaw” on their part. So I am confused at exactly which aspect of the “racial sentiment” you identify with.

    I am not looking for the “right” understanding of your post, but simply “THE” understanding – just a bit confused.

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  37. @ Sharina:

    leigh204

    Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. You kinda opened the door to some different performers and I have been hooked. LOL.

    That’s great! What are the names of the different performers if you don’t mind me asking? I probably didn’t hear their music before and I would like to know them. Expand my horizons, if you will. 🙂

    As to K-pop, yes it does sound the same (I would say better). I will say that once they make it over here the quality of the music falls apart to me. Wonder girls made it over here and one of their songs was on the radio a year or so back. It was just too pop mainstream compared to the music they were making in Korea.

    It’s sad, but not uncommon for songs coming from another country to lose their “flavor” once it enters the States. It’s just different. Not only did this happen with the Wonder Girls, it was the same with SNSD aka Girls’ Generation with their song, “The Boys”. Here they are when they appeared on David Letterman.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnLAml7Ji9A)

    On a sidenote, I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of PSY of Gangnam Style fame? I rolled my eyes when I read comments from the U.S./Western media that said he was a new singer/rapper from South Korea. He isn’t new. I knew about him for nearly 10 years before Gangnam Style became a mega hit. I found one of his older songs. I hope you like it.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTCH6-lgNK8)

    He also collaborated with female singer/rapper Lexy in 2004. This is one of my favorite songs.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ1Rgw3-N90)

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  38. @ Kiwi:

    Where did you grow up? I grew up in the middle of Canada. And while the racial demographics have changed for the better over here, I didn’t have an easy time either. I remember two white girls in the fourth grade follow me home because they wanted to teach me a lesson.

    Apparently, they felt I thought too highly of myself because I dared to talk back to them to leave me alone. They shoved, tripped, and knocked me down hoping that I would break down and cry. Even though I was frightened, I didn’t want to give them satisfaction in seeing me cry. I nearly did, though. I screamed why are they doing this to me and I did nothing to them, and amazingly, they left me alone after that.

    In the years before, I was made fun of because I was different (Asian) and different looking (my eyes were constantly derided) by white peers to the point I wanted eyelid surgery, but thankfully, THANKFULLY, I had a strong Asian mother who made me feel my worth was more than just my appearance.

    Anyway, you say Asian women bash Asian men? I don’t doubt that’s true because I have heard SOME Asian women bash Asian men, too, and it’s wrong and hurtful. They want nothing to do with Asian men, but that’s them. Why would anyone want women like that? (Yes, I know, white men.) The truth is most Asian women are dating/marrying Asian men. Goodness. I forgot what I was going to talk about. Please forgive my rambling.

    Like


  39. @Kiwi,

    or when half white/half Asians flaunt their whiteness as if they think they’re better than plain Asians.

    Yeah, I think this was likely a factor with Elliot Rodger. But I really don’t think they actually believe they are *better* than monoracially identified Asians (regardless of how they appear to behave), IN fact, I think that they likely believe they are inferior to both whites and Asians. Flaunting their half-whiteness in front of Asian men is probably an effort to bolster their psychological self-esteem (ie, a defense mechanism) after constant exposure to the Asian male bashing orchestrated by their parents & relatives, their community and by the popular media.

    I actually believe that half white/half Asians do want to feel more positive self-esteem about who and what they are (which is why they sometimes flaunt), including their Asian side, but there are 2 great obstacles they face:

    – constant Asian bashing by all the people around them (from whites and other non-Asians, the media, and most of the Asians they contact on a regular basis); I think it is particularly difficult for those with white fathers as they might have no Asian men to represent a real figure against what are purely stereotypes).

    – difficulty being accepted by Asian groups, who might not view them as “authentically” Asian or perhaps highly suspect because of their white identity that does not purely reflect internalized racism, but also connections with actual blood relatives.

    The second one is where you might be able to help your half white/Asian cousins, if you felt so inclined (and that is a big *IF*). It takes a lot of strength for two reasons:
    1. They often act nasty to you, trying to show they are somehow “better” (when I think it is actually a disguised feeling of inferiority). It may not be pleasant to take the initiative to engage with them.

    2. You have been battling internalized racism yourself, with little psychological bolstering to combat the bashing you faced for the past couple decades. But as you find your strength, maybe you can learn to share it, esp. with family and friends, and esp. your half white / half Asian cousins.

    They can use a voice from their Asian side or Asian groups to help put in perspective that psychological bashing that they get from everyone else.

    But of course, for the past 2 decades there has been growing Hapa activism and activism for the multiracial American. One of the things they need to work on is not just fighting “tick the box” but also other real psychological and social problems many people face.

    I have more related comments, but I think I will do it later.

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  40. Maybe it is a worthwhile exercise to compare Elliot Rodger to Seung-Hui Cho.

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  41. the holocaust thread is definitely the wrong place to bring it up but that actor whatever his name is, who played saul the lawyer in breaking bad was pretty good in fargo, the tv show. and i appreciate the format that that show and ‘orange is the new black’ follow, sort of an extended story with a set beginning and end, not so much a never-ending thing like most tv shows, or the long-running ‘soap opera’ thing.

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  42. NYPD choke a man (Eric Garner) to death while trying to detain him. The attempt to detain a “suspect” by chokeholding is an illegal police manoevre.

    The cops involved have only been put on modified duty.

    (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698752/NYPD-cop-shown-video-putting-suspect-deadly-chokehold-arrest-gun-badge-stripped.html)

    What do you say? Will the cops get off scot free?

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  43. They may not get off free as restraining a suspect in a choke hold is illegal in most law enforcement agencies. But who knows(It’s the States)? It seems cut and dry to me, with that being said who knows what ‘excuse they may come up with? Also, there are guidelines for restraining obese people such as this man or should be as many have died of heart attacks due to the pressure being put on their vital organs. I would think they (NYPD), would properly train their officers in proper restraint techniques for various types of individuals such as the obese, elderly, teenagers etc). My question, however, is, did this man actually pose an immediate threat to these officers which warranted them ‘taking him down’ in this manner? No. They could have just as easily put out a warrant or issued some sort of ticket and fined him for selling contraband cigarettes. Nope, none of this was warranted.

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  44. From watching the video, the man wasn’t even resisting arrest, or attempting to get away — he had committed no crime and wasn’t being disorderly.

    Yet he was attacked, held by the throat and, it appears, his head compressed under the weight of another man after he had been floored by 5 or 6 men — DURING the time he was saying “I can’t breathe”.

    Interesting to see how this killing shall be excused and dismissed…

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  45. If the chokehold restraint is indeed illegal, why haven’t they arrested the officer then? He has committed a crime (unlike his victim). Arrest him!

    re: Herneith

    They could have just as easily put out a warrant or issued some sort of ticket and fined him for selling contraband cigarettes.

    I don’t think so. You would have to arrest him first – they accused him of selling contraband cigarettes, but it didn’t look like they had any evidence of that.

    What would they arrest him for? For being outside on the street? vagrancy?

    No, just skip all those problematic steps and kill him.

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  46. I’m Canadian, from what I have read, this man had a history of selling contraband cigarettes(big deal). Do they not issue tickets and court summons for petty ‘crimes’ such as this? That is what I was basing my presumptions on , how such minor offenses are dealt with there. Here they issue summons for such ‘infractions’. You can go to court and ‘fight it’. If you are initially arrested, you would be let out on your own recognizance. Should you ignore these summons, you may be arrested and incarcerated initially. You may then be sentenced to time or, if you pay the fine, none. I don’t know what the laws in Ny are. Whether or not they were apprehending this man for something so petty, they committed manslaughter in the least. They had a similar case here where they shot a kid off the streetcar. The cop was charged with 2nd degree murder. I would not be surprised if this cop gets off in Ny, nor this one in Toronto. I hope the family sues the NYPD for civil rights infringements. This is where the ‘broken window’ policing gets you in Ny. How many other ‘suspects’ selling illegal cigarettes or some other petty ‘crime’ have they done this to but due to the lack of cameras or witnesses get away with this behaviour because the victim doesn’t die or report it?

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  47. That Bratton needs to be fired. That video had my anxiety level up. There is just too much police brutality perpetrated against Black people in America. Not to mention a couple of weeks ago that poor woman the California Highway patrol savagely beat.

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  48. Everyone involved in this poor man’s demise needs to loose their jobs and be sued. Racist cretins.

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  49. Kiwi, he pushed the officer away? I missed that — thanks.

    I have to ask myself why I didn’t register that?
    I don’t think I understood what he had done wrong, he wasn’t being violent and it looked “threatening” that there were so many people surrounding him.
    His saying “don’t touch” kind of seemed a reasonable response to the threat they posed to him. He probably had VERY GOOD CAUSE to resist. Damn.

    I think if I was surrounded like that, if I was an asthmatic black man and highly aware of how the police handle black men — I might push anyone too close away and tell them don’t touch, too.

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  50. Question:

    How do I respond to specific comments on Abagond’s blog? I don’t see a reply button under specific comments, only a Leave a Reply window at the bottom of the page.

    Thank you

    Like


  51. ^ either quote them or include the link for their comment.

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  52. Jefe,

    I do quote people but I am unable to notify them that I replied to their comment. Direct reply may not be a feature that Abagond enabled for his blog.

    I appreciate your response.

    Thank you

    Like


  53. ^ I guess you have to treat it as a comment to their comment, not a reply to them personally. Yeah, some blogs allow you to insert your comment directly under another comment, ie, nested discussion threads within discussion threads.

    On this blog, people are only notified if they click to be notified, and still, that is not personalized. Maybe it is just wordpress, which is more a blog, and not a discussion forum.

    Like


  54. ugh policy statements, sort of forced into it by having jewish friends and muslim friends on fb, i may be a eff up but i’m consistant! and no, i’m not putting this in the (latest) hitler thread although that’s where it came up.

    “i do gotta say, though? that the balkanization of the ass-end of the ottoman empire ie partition of muslim lands such as we saw in bangladesh and pakistan being separated from india for the ease of administration by the british empire, then on to the lands addressed by balfour, really did put the muslim territories, already shaky and in disarray due to internecine warfare and wwi, on unequal footing with the jewish ‘homeland’ ie ‘palestine’ (which is even more twisted considering today’s political situation in the greater jerusalem area) where as the ben gurion faction gained international legitmacy after wwii and was able to accrete legal powers and recognition normally accorded to a sovereign state to a religious movement. nowadays they call that assymetric warfare if the there is a wider ‘islamist’ movement that transcends nations. huh. kinda makes ya think.
    that is all.

    #justsayin
    #doasisaynotasido”

    do you quote yourself? how does that work

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  55. Hello, everyone. I would really appreciate some guidance in this particular situation. Here’s some exposition:
    When I was in high school I read an essay by an Asian-American woman who spoke about joining her university’s crew (rowing) team. I could really identify with her lack of a concrete identity and was intrigued by the way that rowing helped improve both her sense of self and her body image. I’m in college now, and last year I joined my own university’s crew team. I’ve fallen in love with it; rowing is amazing.
    Many people (even people of color) have come and gone but throughout the year the only non-white people who’ve stayed are me and the club president, and she graduated this May. I’ve been the only PoC/the only black person in the room for virtually my entire life, so this doesn’t bother me. The problem? The team is filled with racists. All year people had been calling things “ghetto” and saying not-so-covertly insulting things about black people to my face. To give an example, the woman who’s supposed to be my coach next year is from California. She played basketball with black girls when she was younger, and laughingly said that it was “the ‘bad’ thing about hanging out with black girls was that she wanted sooo badly to be like them.” They’d even said openly racist things about non-black people when I was in the room, presumably because they thought I wouldn’t mind as I wasn’t “one of them.” All year I’d been trying to go along to get along, but we had a training trip in the spring that lasted a week. After a few days of constantly being with them I couldn’t take it anymore and snapped. I started responding and things quickly became awkward and tense. Some people became very passive-aggressive, and I was very isolated.

    I think my biggest mistake was trying too hard to make them like me. Now I don’t want to be friends with them and know that they, no matter how “nice” they are to my face, they don’t want to be friends with me either. But I want to keep rowing, and to do that I need them to at least respect me. I know that to keep my self-esteem intact I’ll have to stand up for myself but this year has made the problems that I had with anxiety, confidence, and expressing myself even worse. What do you think I should do to combat their racism? I’d really appreciate any advice that anyone might have. And thanks to everyone who answers in advance; I know that this was a lot to read.

    Like


  56. The blue sign now

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  57. Halisi,
    My advice is to do your best to let them know you don’t like the way they talk without losing your calm. You don’t have to make a speech just say that you think they’re being stupid and leave it at that. And then reinforce it by deliberately not engaging them in conversation unless it is specifically related to rowing. They will get the message. You’re better off not trying to force anything with them.

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  58. you can’t fix stupid

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  59. @halisi

    If you truly love the sport and don’t want to give that up, my suggestion would be to continue training with the group, but making it completely professional. Meaning, treat it like a job. Start making friends outside of crew. You know they aren’t your friends so keep it strictly about crew. Don’t hang out with them outside of practice. Maybe start exploring other interest that will attract the kind of people you want to be around. Good luck!

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  60. @ Kiwi:

    My father is Asian but he never once talked to me about issues that affect Asian men. Do you think Elliot Rodger’s white father talked to him about issues affecting Asian men?

    I’m intrigued by your post in the Elliot Rodger’s thread. My father, and mostly, my mother talked to me about most of the issues that affected Asians. As a young girl, my father warned me to be wary of most white people especially white men. He was worried that I would be seduced by a white guy. The reason? Before my father immigrated to Canada, he said he had witnessed the racist attitudes of some US/Aussie/Brit expatriates living in the Philippines looking down on/making fun of Filipinos. However, it didn’t stop them from getting it on with some of the local Filipina women.

    As for my mom, she came from another area of the Philippines, and she didn’t didn’t have direct contact with white people until she came to Canada. She also wasn’t surprised by the attitudes of white Canadians when we moved to a predominantly white neighborhood. She said white people’s reputation preceded them coming from friends and relatives who had already experienced racism from white people.

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  61. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    I’ve read many of your posts and unfortunately, I don’t think your family’s views apply to most Asians (that I know). Most of them like white people more than they like blacks. Hell, many Asians like whites more than they like other Asians.

    Perhaps in your neck of the woods, Kiwi. Where I’m from, I know plenty of Asian families who have the same views as my family. I consider myself fortunate I wasn’t brainwashed as other white-worshipping Asians, and it’s disturbing. Talk about selling your soul.

    My husband and I talk about racism all the time. There will be days when he tells me situations where something happened. Just the other day, I went with him to get some gas. And when we were already inside the gas station to pay, some white guy came in and stood next to my husband.

    For some unexplained reason, the cashier, who happened to be white, turned away from my husband and faced the other guy to serve him. It was funny (not haha funny) because my husband was first in line. Anyway, this didn’t sit well with my husband and he spoke up. He said, “I believe I was here first.” And he leaned forward and edged out the white guy who didn’t look impressed btw. lol! This is what Asians need to do more of and that’s sticking up for themselves. If they don’t, then everyone else will think Asians are pushovers.

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  62. @ Kiwi:

    I know what you’re talking about as I have seen my fair share of white worshipping Filipinos/Asians. Frankly, I always give any Asian male or female the side eye if he or she is disrespecting fellow Asians and praising white people. When I was dating my Asian exes, there would be that particular Asian woman with a white bf who would hold on to him for dear life and give me the triumph look because she bagged a white guy. (No, dear, I couldn’t care less if your man was white and he ain’t all that.)

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  63. I forgot to mention that she was likely insecure. She probably thought I was going to steal her white bf. Nope. I don’t steal what I don’t want.

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  64. @Kiwi I’m so sad reading all of your postings. The same kind of attitude pervades the gay asian community as well, at least the American one. Gay Asian men pretty much act like how you describe Asian women. When I tell you these guys would probably sell their family to get the attention of a white man and once/if they do, they think they won the lottery. The negative asian male stereotypes seep into the gay male culture too, especially the hook up culture, there’s a running gag about the quotes that you see on, literally, the majority of profiles on hookup/dating websites; “no fats, no fems, no asians.” Though generally, the stereotype works for them in some cases as it isn’t uncommon to see young asian men with older white men, though the younger white men want nothing to do with asian men because of the stereotype of them being “feminine” and soft and delicate among other things. Also, I can’t help but notice your experiences and views on the plight of asian men in relation to asian women VERY much so mirrors the plight of black women in relation to black men.

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  65. @ Kiwi”

    Something strange I’ve noticed is that sometimes, when I go out to restaurants with my family in white areas, the servers will seat us near the other Asians. I was wondering if this happens to you, too.

    Not really. My family and I are seated wherever there’s an available table.

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  66. @Kiwi Yes, I was going to write that but I was like eh, he’ll know what I’m saying lol as for your thing about asian women, I don’t think being model minority has to do with, for the most part at least. You also have gender dynamics at play here and a patriarchal system. I remember being on YouTube and there was this, seemingly, white guy who would always troll using racial/ethnic slurs and telling people, regardless of race, to stay within their race or whatever, racial purity bs. Then I decided to go on his channel one day to see and see all the comments people left badgering him about his views and what a horrible person he was (so nasty that he made fun of a white woman, who happened to have a baby with a black guy, who made a video talking about the death of her baby), then I saw a comment from a white guy who I guess expressed his love for either asian or stereotypical latino women (mestiza), I can’t remember which one, and he was asking the guy what was wrong with him liking them. The guy was like there’s nothing wrong with it I just like for people to marry/procreate in their race and then the white guy said “ook so your the kinda white supremacist i dont mind as much (or the kind that has more of a problem when white chicks date black guys than the other way around).” Unsurprising, but I was still like wow. It’s something about men, maybe the privilege, but they want to be able to do whatever they want but control women. I’ve noticed the same thing with black guys, worldstar hiphop is a cesspool of ignorant people period, but whenever there’s a video about a black woman/women the comments are filled with, seemingly, black guys berating and demonizing these women while simultaneously exalting non-black women. Meanwhile, a recent video got very popular that featured a white guy with his black girlfriend fooling around in a bathroom, these EXACT guys who were berating black women and talking down on them and talking about how great interracial relationships were, were now talking about what scum the black girl was for being with a white guy, literally one person said they don’t respect black women who date white guys, talking about how we need to “keep the race alive” and just other completely hypocritical bs.

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  67. Ooh, Peanut! Are there any prospective suitors? 🙂

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  68. Awww. For you, dear Peanut.

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  69. @ abagond et al

    This Australian video about the mental health effects of ‘casual racism’ is going viral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvTyI41PvTk).

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  70. @ wordynerdygirl

    Thanks! There is also a behind-the-scenes video where they ask the actors about their experiences of racism in Australia:

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_AbjhXv0cI)

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  71. @ Peanut

    “abagond what about a blog post on African-Americans and DNA testing?

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDOzrU0AU-w)

    Okay. Look for it Saturday or so.

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  72. @ Kiwi

    @ leigh204

    When I was dating my Asian exes, there would be that particular Asian woman with a white bf who would hold on to him for dear life and give me the triumph look because she bagged a white guy.

    I encounter those women every day. They’ve given me that triumphant look, too, and it’s always one of spite.

    I have had other Asian women who ONLY date white men come up to me and wonder why I was with my Asian exes. A couple have said I could do better than an Asian man. Really now?

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  73. @ Kiwi:

    I have had many opportunities to date white men considering I was surrounded by white people well into my late teens. I’m not tooting my own horn here. Far from it, but these certain white men would ALWAYS approach me. Never the other way around. It’s a fact they used ridiculous lines on me commenting how sensual I looked with my long, black hair, silky beige skin, and my fierce looking eyes. Wth does that even mean? Imagine the look on my face when one guy talked about how tight an intimate part of me could be. Now when I heard these same men disparage Asian men, without a doubt, I could not trust let alone love men like this.

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  74. @Anne and lifelearner:

    Thank you! I have the nasty habits of both wanting everyone to like me and constantly putting others before myself. I’d already focused on the first one, but the notion of refusing to interact with them didn’t occur to me. It’ll be difficult (because of the aforementioned habits) but I’m obviously going to be much healthier in the long run. Thanks again for answering.

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  75. @ abagond

    Thanks, I saw that one too. The shorter vid is screening on prime time tv here now too. Hopefully it has an impact.

    The whole thing was very moving but the segment with the older gentleman on the bus really got to me in particular. Beyond Blue also published a report which showed that about 1 in 5 people in Aus would avoid sitting next to an Indigenous person – really disgraceful. I wonder what the results of a similar survey would be elsewhere.

    You can see the report here: (http://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/research-project-files/bl1337-report—tns-discrimination-against-indigenous-australians.pdf?sfvrsn=2)

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  76. @ Peanut:

    Are you involved in cultural organizations? Many of my friends have met their spouses in the same organizations they’ve joined. Have you considered that?

    Like


  77. Where’s Ms.TooGood? I need to discuss Welcome To Sweeite Pies, lol.
    She had a blog, anyone remember the name for Ms.TooGood blog?

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  78. Sorry if this is off topic but a book you guys should read is Kindred by Octavia Butler. I think Abagond should do a post on it. For summer reading it was an option and I had to chose it- never read a book about a modern day black woman going back to time to protect her white ancestor least she die.

    What scared me about this book was how Dana the main character came to see the plantation as home and her own time where she was free as a strange foreign place where she did not belong. Kevin her white husband also felt out of place and even lashed out at her when he wasn’t adapting to the present age as fast as he could. Both of them had been changed by their harrowing experience.

    Best part of the book was the characters. No one was one dimensional. Everyone had their flaws but good traits too even Rufus. As boy he had been nice to Dana but once he inherited his fathers plantation and slaves he became possessive and brutal also annoying needy. But he did need Dana- without her he would’ve been dead long before and she needed him to stay alive so it created a twisted kind of relationship. I hated Dana for like trusting him and crap but I guess it was understandable since Dana was a compassionate person who saw him as a product of his time.

    It’s a great book that shows the link between are present age and slavery and most of all that Kindred could mean so many things. It is not neccesary to be related I saw Dana and her husband as kindred more than Dana and Rufus because they were both writers, struggled through poverty and had went back in time together and witnessed (and in Dana’s case experienced the horrors of slavery and changed as a result. The slaves Dana worked with were also Kindred trying to survive through slavery like she and make it to freedom. They were scared and angry too at their enslavement and actually had it worse than Dana.

    It’s a great book Abagond should do a post on – I enjoy his reviews on books movies everything. He always points out stuff I don’t notice

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  79. As far as I know there have been around 14000 intentional homicides in the USA in 2012. I take 2012 because it is very recent and yet long enough ago so that there might be already good statistics.
    So my question is: does anybody know any reliable, official, data how many of those intentional homicides had white/hispanic/black/asian perpetrators and white/hispanic/black/asian victims? Especially I would be interesting to see data on interracial homicides.
    I would be very thankful for any hints where I could look for such data!

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  80. Peanut
    well, how can you know that white men think they are “something better” if you do not talk to them?
    If anything most white males feel inferior to black people in general. The most important reason for this is of course that most white females ceteris paribus prefer black males about white or asian males. Other reasons are that black men are on average physical stronger, that they get attributed a higher value in current mass culture via their success in sports, music, etc.

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  81. @Curiousity,

    Many thanks for the ‘Kindred’ recommendation. I’m a big SF reader but the genre had always struck me as overwhelmingly white. I will read Ms Butler’s work with interest.

    Grateful for the heads up.

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  82. I’m a writer.

    I recently went through my old contributor’s copies of magazines that published my stuff in the 90s. Amongst the work I’d forgotten was a story that won an award from the UK’s (at the time) leading horror fiction magazine. As I reread the tale I wanted to kick the living shite out of my earlier self.

    The story was set in a fictitious African location, featured made-up African-sounding names and made-up African religious elements. To make things worse, at the time of writing I was working in a multiracial environment and had a number of African friends. Rather than asking them for information, I just made shit up. It was shallow crap.

    The whole nostalgia trip has been painfully embarrassing.

    Flame away. I earned it.

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  83. @peanut

    Yep Kindred is on my list of fav books now along with The Light in the Forest by Conrad Richter, Oedipus, and The Kite Runner. I always liked tragic/grim works.

    @buddhu

    I find that troubling too and the whole cast being white is not limited to scifi. Fantasy too has a lack of diversity and romance but that’s kind of changing. Humans are always white aliens are always white it’s ridiculous. I want to change that in a idea I had for a book where there are tensions between androids and humans in a post apocalyptic world

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  84. Are you involved in cultural organizations? Many of my friends have met their spouses in the same organizations they’ve joined. Have you considered that?

    Yeah, this is a good idea.

    It doesn’t have to be purely cultural — any organization or activity where there are many people involved, e.g.,.
    – a drama group
    – language class
    – sports
    – community organization (e.g., environmental, activist, etc.)
    – volunteer at a place you love and where many people go

    I am a scuba diving instructor, and invited people to join activities. I have already had 3 couples meet (one is engaged, one is married already).

    The upshot – you cannot fail meeting someone doing an activity that you love. Because even if you did not meet someone most of the time, you are still doing something you love. And the other people joining already love the activity, so you are constantly meeting people with shared interests.

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  85. Atleast in Europe the situation seems to be different, this study finds the same as I expected: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2099449/Are-human-beings-hard-wired-different-races-attractive-Study-finds-white-people-rate-white-partners-SECOND.html
    but I suppose those studies are not really good enough,a s there is to less research about such things.
    I rather trust my own eyes, which tell me that males of westafrican ancestry are by far the most attactuve to white women, east asian males tjose who are by the least attractive. This is what I see in my hometown, which is one of the biggest german cities. In the last three days I have counted the couples with westafrican men/white wife with and without children which I have seen on zhe street while foing to work, shopping etc. I counted 15 of such couples. In the same time i saw 0 couples with eastafrican males, white wife, 0 couples with black wife/white male, 0 couple with east asian male/female white male/female, maybe three couples with westasian males, european female.
    Also Iif you look at school classes in big german cities you three or four children with westafrican father, white mother in each class, all other combinations are very seldom.

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  86. @Erik:

    You may or may not be familiar with The Daily Mail to which you linked. It is a mainstream British tabloid – one of the nastiest, most disingenuous, scaremongering, right wing, racist, Islamophobic gutter rags one could hope to avoid.

    While some of what it publishes is, no doubt, accurate, it is selective and all material is chosen to contribute to a larger overall reactionary agenda. Always question the motives of what they publish – even when it seems harmless.

    Just a bit of context.

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  87. As far as I know that “mainstream” in UK means “hysterical and absolutely irrational antiracist”

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  88. You may or may not be familiar with The Daily Mail to which you linked. It is a mainstream British tabloid – one of the nastiest, most disingenuous, scaremongering, right wing, racist, Islamophobic gutter rags one could hope to avoid.

    I agree with you, but the ‘gossip’ section is comical as I wonder ‘who are half these people?

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  89. An interesting thing happened to me today. A white panhandler asked me for spare change and I told him I had none to give. (I rarely carry any cash with me.) He went on a tirade about foreigners taking jobs away from hardworking Canadians, told me to go back to China, and called me a slur as I walked away. Oddly enough, this isn’t the first time this has happened. *shrugs*
    Some people, eh?

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  90. leigh204:

    “He went on a tirade about foreigners taking jobs away from hardworking Canadians, told me to go back to China, and called me a slur as I walked away.”

    Yet he asked a ,”foreigner” for money!

    We as minorities are only good in white people’s eyes, if we are serving them in some sense, if not we are treated with such disdain.

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  91. @ Kiwi

    You’re right that white women (and even some Asian women, I might add) are not attracted to Asian men. On a regular day out, I see maybe 30 to 40 Asian women with white men in my area, but maybe only 1 or 2 Asian men with white women, if not 0.

    Actually, you see similar ratios in Asia too, if not more extreme. I see dozens of white men / asian women couples DAILY, pretty much every time I go out. I see Asian male / white female couples maybe once per month.

    I have read articles about SINGLE white expat women in Asia. They are almost destined to remain dateless. But, it is not clear to me if they are rejecting Asian men or if Asian men are rejecting them. I think both.

    I don’t see blacks and whites dating each other much, anyway.

    I saw this quite a bit when I go back to Metro DC, particular in the Maryland suburbs (Montgomery, Prince George’s and Charles counties), areas that have a large black middle class and significant black enrollment in colleges and universities that whites also attend.
    You might see it fairly often in metro Baltimore and parts of New Jersey too. I wonder if you will see it often in Metro Atlanta also. Blacks in California are a lower percentage of the population and it seemed, at least to me, to be concentrated in highly segregated areas.

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  92. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 09:28:23 wordynerdygirl

    ICB on the claim that women are not attracted to East Asian men. There are HEAPS of AMWF couples in Sydney – 10 years ago there were scarcely any but now I notice almost as many AMWF couples as the opposite combination.

    I think people who claim AM are ‘not attractive’ in this thread have another agenda. In whose interest is it to claim that AM are not attractive to women? Hmmm.

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  93. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 09:36:57 wordynerdygirl

    Oh, and I also CB on the claim that expat women are ‘dateless’. I had PLENTY of attention in Korea, I even featured in a style magazine for Christ’s sake. Never had to worry about a date, ever, and neither did any of my female friends there. How patronising your comment is!!!!!!!!

    I really have to stop reading the comments on this blog. Whether they’re from rabid white supremacists, strange conspiracy theorists or just plain cranks they get my blood pressure far too high.

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  94. First off, I’ve been reading for maybe about 4 months now, I found the blog because I found “sub-saharan african” meaning “black,” to be problematic for a variety of reasons so I googled something in relation to that and then I ended up on a post Abagond made about it, started reading other things and fell in love with the blog lol now I’ve finally decided to venture out into commenting (my professor last semester made us create a wordpress because one of our projects had to do with adding to a blog he’s created for his students). I literally spend hours reading the comments on random posts and it’s literally like watching a TV show, everyone with their different personalities and previous histories. I literally get up to go do something else then think to myself, “wait what tv show did I just get done watching…..oh, no, I was reading those comments on Abagond’s blog.”

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  95. Anyway, I said all of that to say that I’m curious how old everyone is, I’ve been quite surprised at the age of many of the commenters, talking about growing up in the 60s, getting their degree 25 years ago, etc. I guess I’m still under the impression that older people don’t know how to, or rather don’t have an interest in, navigating the internet. I’m 19 going into my sophomore year of University and was just curious about the age of you commenters….

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  96. Hey lifelearner

    I haven’t watched many episodes of this season of sweetie pies, I’ve seen the episode where ms Robbie fractures her arm and the episode when tim got a new assistant. I will have to catch up on some episodes.

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  97. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 11:35:11 wordynerdygirl

    @bms103

    Yes, the posts are really interesting and so are many of the commenters. This is a fascinating blog which is why, after two years of commenting here and three years of reading, I find it very difficult to wean myself off.

    I’m 32 but I think there are quite a few people here who are somewhat older than that. There are also some younger people – from memory Peanut is very young, so is Adeen.

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  98. @ wordy

    I really have to stop reading the comments on this blog. Whether they’re from rabid white supremacists, strange conspiracy theorists or just plain cranks they get my blood pressure far too high.

    Lol…this blog is only a slim slice of a virtual world.
    An older relative always used to say to me “be careful of the written form”. I understand what he meant now. I suppose all the reader can do — apart from having a life, which is vital — is to pick the wheat from the chaff

    Because this blog is a written medium, a lot that would be blatantly obvious in the Real World about a comment or commenter, gets missed.
    (you know I mean? 😉 ) We are left with words on a computer screen.
    And even if a picture is posted, what does it ensure?
    There was a time when someone said she was who she said she was, because there was a photo of her on the gravatar.
    But another commenter said, how do we know it’s you?
    *

    On the other side, something might be written and it gets completely misunderstood. Completely.
    You mean that’s ever happened to you!

    Has everything you’ve ever written to strangers — every idea, experience, opinion, interpretation, whatever — always been fully and properly understood by them? They might think YOU are a crank, when clearly, in my opinion, you are not.

    That stuff can happen to people who aren’t rabid or particularly strange.

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  99. @ bms103

    I guess I’m still under the impression that older people don’t know how to, or rather don’t have an interest in, navigating the internet.

    I don’t know if that is true. All ages use the internet now, and “older people” are curious even if it’s not as familiar to them. A lot of people I know have phones with internet and use it…

    Certainly, younger people, let’s say, people under 20 or 25, know their way around the internet far more in the countries that have access, etc.
    When I was that age — there was no internet — typewriters and books were the thing, and I wouldn’t miss it, except for booking flights, etc.

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  100. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:00:45 wordynerdygirl

    @ bulanik

    I have always been honest here. In fact, I have emailed abagond previously using my real name – since I’m the only woman in Australia who bears that name it would be straightforward for him to verify my identity.

    I’m ok with him knowing my name and who I am but of course I would not post here under my real name all the time.

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  101. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:03:41 wordynerdygirl

    * correction, I would never post publicly here under my real name. That’s a dangerous thing to do on a blog where very controversial topics are discussed.

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  102. @ Bulanik

    I also email Abagond using my real name. And I am probably the only woman who bears that name in the country I (usually) write from, too.
    This is not about honesty: in fact, providing info to back up and “prove” is just what the “rabid” (to use your word) are after, so it’s just common-sense to avoid it altogether no matter what it looks like.

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  103. That comment was meant for you, wordynerdygirl ^^

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  104. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:23:42 wordynerdygirl

    @ Bulanik

    True.

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  105. @ wordy, also a subject doesn’t even have to particularly controversial.
    It can be even a small things that “trips” a switch.
    Another commenter saw that happen just this week on a thread about dating.
    It can become personal and ugly very quickly.

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  106. @ wordy

    It can be frustrating.
    But, when you think about it, it’s just a slice, a sliver, of the blog-o-sphere.
    On a personal level (if one is a busy person with a juicy life), it’s not much of a deal, and you have to wonder about some characters…

    That said, there are, of course, real, decent and very nice individuals here behind their computer screens, and I’ve gotten to know some them, and them me, over the years. We get to know each other a fair bit.
    But that trust, and those relationships, are not part of this blog.

    One just has to be careful.

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  107. @ Bulanik:

    @ wordy, also a subject doesn’t even have to particularly controversial.
    It can be even a small things that “trips” a switch.
    Another commenter saw that happen just this week on a thread about dating.
    It can become personal and ugly very quickly.

    I hope it’s okay if I put my two cents in? 🙂 Some people online let loose a barrage of personal insults if they don’t like what you have to say. Why, in fact, recently, a stranger sent me a string of nasty comments because of what I wrote here on Abagond’s blog. I will admit I was taken aback, but I realized this person has major issues. I mean, who takes the time to write all that hate-filled stuff to someone they don’t know?

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  108. Some people online let loose a barrage of personal insults if they don’t like what you have to say…..but I realized this person has major issues.
    I mean, who takes the time to write all that hate-filled stuff to someone they don’t know?

    A coward, leigh204.
    I just hope the sick individual who personally attacks you doesn’t become obsessed and keeps doing it week after week, month after month.

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  109. on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 13:29:00 wordynerdygirl

    @leigh204

    That’s very true and unfortunately I’ve also been guilty from time to time of making ad hominem attacks (although never to the extent of being nasty or abusive) when someone says something I don’t like.

    I’m sorry that someone has said really nasty things to you. That shows they lack the intelligence to actually engage with your arguments on an intellectual level.

    Like


  110. I don’t let it affect me unless a death threat is involved. A few years ago, some creepy guy online made a death threat against me via PMs (personal messages) because he didn’t like what I said on a forum we both were members of.

    I contacted one of the moderators and I showed him proof of this person’s harassment and death threat. His actions weren’t tolerated and he was banned, thank God. There are people out there with SERIOUS issues. What is going on in these people’s minds that they think it’s okay to behave in that awful manner?

    Like


  111. @ leigh204

    What a disgusting situation! And, so weird: why anyone obsessively makes personal attacks at a stranger on the internet defies most sane people’s understanding. Surely, anyone can disagree about a topic without that.

    I can’t imagine a situation where that would be tolerated.
    Especially when a moderator or blog keeper SEES it and deletes their comments whilst telling them the reason: you’re deleted for personal attacks.

    If someone pig-headedly carries on making personal attacks, overtly or covertly, even after they are told why they are deleted — then it’s the moderator / blog owner’s responsibility to stop them at the first sign of it again.

    Your moderator didn’t mess about in the situation you described,
    After all, you don’t know what kind of ugliness that stuff could have eventually led to…

    Like


  112. on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 11:10:12 wordynerdygirl

    @ peanut

    You’re only 25 so you have heaps of time!

    You come across here as being a really sweet person, I’m sure that you will meet someone soon. It’s a cliche but sometimes it’s more likely to happen when you’re not worried about it.

    Like


  113. I will do a post on ISIS this week and one on “Kindred” next week, God willing.

    One on present-day slavery is long overdue, but it depends on what kind of material I can find. Suggestions are welcomed (Thanks Peanut).

    Like


  114. @Kiwi

    I like Judy Chu. She always defends Asian men in the face of racism and cares about them. She is an Asian woman I deeply admire.

    Do you have any links to articles or videos about her? Have you met her?

    The only senior Asian-American female politician I met personally was Elaine Chao. She was so cringetastic. It was only later that I found out that she was married to an Alabama-born white Southerner and had converted to become a Southern Baptist – a background and culture that I know a thing or two about. I also have spent a lot of time in Taiwan and among Taiwanese-Americans in New York.

    Many Taiwanese-Americans became Republican and converted to white christian religions, no?

    I attended Southern Baptist churches when I was a child, but later I learned that split from Northern baptist churches and reinterpreted the Bible to justify Slavery and later Jim Crow, segregating their congregations. Black churches split off. Now I know why I never saw any black person in the congregation of churches that were surrounded by black neighborhoods.

    I also attended Mandarin classes at a Taiwanese church in Maryland for a year and sometimes attended their services. It was my first primary exposure to hundreds of Taiwanese Americans in the same place.

    Like


  115. @Kiwi,

    Regarding your comment above

    I read an Asian guy’s blog, and he described one of the officers in his high school’s Asian club as being a Eurasian girl with a white father (obviously). She was very active, involved, and discussed Asian issues at length. But after a year, she stopped going suddenly.

    I wouldn’t necessarily jump to the conclusion that she all of a sudden threw Asian males under the bus. As a teenager, people experiment navigating all sorts of different identities until they find one they feel comfortable with.

    You know, monoracially identified Asian Americans are not always kind to Eurasians. Some can be downright nasty and mean. It is possible that the high school student mentioned above was challenged repeatedly about her credibility or entitlement in acting as an officer in an Asian-American student organization. Maybe one day she just got fed up with it. There are many possible explanations. But as she was involved in an Asian American organization, she evidently had some interest in it.

    Maybe I can ask you — which do you feel more comfortable in representing Asian-American interests — an Asian woman who normally dates or is married to a white man (And bashes Asian men) or a Eurasian who participates in Asian-American social organizations (ie, outside his family). Or would you throw them both under the bus? Both have some intimate connection to white interests.

    Like


  116. @Kiwi,
    re:

    From what I’ve read, white female expats in Asia lament that all the white male expats are out dating Asian women, leaving them with nobody to date. And they will say this while millions of Asian men pass right under their noses every day.

    I know that we have some commenters who might disagree with that (because their anecdotal experience may differ), but I have lived in Asia continuously for 19 years, and traveled to Asia off and on for 15 years before that and observed quite a bit over almost 35 years. I have also read many articles over the past couple decades about white expat women in Asia and the dating scene.

    They all pretty much say that it is not very good because
    – many white men in Asia pass up white males and go straight for Asian women
    – not too many Asian men in Asia target white women, unless they have extensive experience living in a western country. They have to deal with family pressures and society pressures.
    (I actually think it is easier for Asian-American males to date and marry white women than it is for Asian men in Asia.)
    – most white women in Asia still target white men for dates (but of course there are exceptions).

    I think I might have even read an article or two for tips for white women to meet Asian men in Asia. First of all, they have to get over their hangups about Asian men.

    Besides what I have read, I have witnessed many cases where white men in Asia broke off with their white girlfriends or white wives in Asia and went straight for Asian women. Some cases I know very personally. The white women, especially if they are not still very young and thin start to organize themselves with other white women, or pour themselves into work, and as a result, do not date men that much.

    White men do not nearly have as much problem. I have seen men well into their 60s easily find Asian women to date.

    Of course, my anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I have been witnessing it for decades now and all the articles I read confirmed my observations. I would love to know of any information or study to the contrary.

    Like


  117. @ Kiwi:

    How do you feel when you see a white man and an asian woman together? I mean, what is your initial reaction? Dismay? Disgust? Personally, I’ve known some Asian men in my life who have referred to asian women who solely date/marry white men as SOWs (sellout wh0res).

    Like


  118. @Kiwi,

    Another explanation is that white families are okay with seeing their son impregnate an Asian woman but will throw a fit if they see an Asian man impregnate one of their daughters.

    Hey, my Mom was almost disowned by her parents when she got pregnant, but that was many decades ago. At that time, they also panicked when their son brought home an Asian war bride. It is interesting how attitudes have evolved.

    Anyhow, I saw a US cartoon from the early 20th century showing a white woman holding the hand of an Asian man, then giving birth to this “oriental” mongrel alien-looking monster. If I can find it online I will share the link.

    I can share it from an online documentary video if that is OK.

    Like


  119. ^ Sorry, the first paragraph above was confusing.

    Should read
    “Hey, my Mom was almost disowned by her parents when she got pregnant, but that was many decades ago. At that time, white parents also panicked when their son brought home an Asian war bride. It is interesting how attitudes have evolved.”

    Like


  120. @Peanut,

    It is not just white men who break up with their white wife / girlfriend to find a new Asian girlfriend. Asian women also break up with Asian Boyfriends to go out with a white man.

    why they don’t have specials on the media about “why white men go for asian women,” or why white men leave ww for asian women

    The behavior is already seen as “normal” by white males and therefore not that interesting to those who produce white media.

    You should watch / read more media produced Asian American males. This is a big topic for that media segment.

    I am also thinking that one contributing factor is the overwhelming preference for sons in most Asian cultures and 1st/2nd generation Asian American families. I know some women who grew up with that did not want to marry into a family with that attitude, so they think they must avoid Asian men (or unconsciously do so). And Asian parents are less alarmed if their daughters marry out than if their sons do (as they see their daughters as marrying out but their daughters-in-law as marrying in).

    (Please those commenters who think that I am suggesting “all” I never mean “all” when make such comment, maybe not even “most” or “many”.)

    Like


  121. I was just thinking.

    An interesting topic might be the split between white churches and black churches in the USA, esp. the split of the National Baptist Convention off from the Southern Baptist Convention after Reconstruction, as well as the decline in the Southern Baptist church in the past decade (which is attributed to a decline in European immigration). The SBC has tried to revive itself by wooing Hispanics in suburban Texas and by electing a black president, but I don’t think it is going anywhere.

    Maybe we can show the parallel between the decline in SBC membership and the growing weakness of the white Southern strategy of the Republican party.

    Like


  122. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 10:16:20 wordynerdygirl

    @ jefe

    I realise your comment re: ‘anecdotal’ evidence was directed at me. Don’t you think that’s a tad hypocritical? Almost every comment I read from both you and Kiwi is based solely or at least partly on your purported experiences.

    The VAST majority of Korean women prefer Korean men. Korean women who date out are a minority. If Kiwi had actually lived there (which I frankly don’t accept) he would be aware of this.

    While some Western beauty standards/racist stereotyping has ‘bled’ into other countries in MY experience Asian men are seen as masculine and attractive by most Asian women in Asia.

    I can only guess that your experience has been limited to countries like the Philippines, Thailand and perhaps to a lesser extent Mainland China. In these countries economic issues obviously have a bearing on dating choices.

    I mentioned before that attitudes are changing here in Australia too. A while back I cited from a study (I linked it too) that showed that the rate of intermarriage is now almost the same for second generation Asian men and women in Australia. This flies in the face of the things you and Kiwi are saying, which suggest that most Asian men are alone, lonely and unattractive to Asian and non-Asian women alike.

    I find much of your comments really interesting and informative but they are also depressing.

    Of course it is important to talk about the continuation of white supremacist attitudes and the very harmful impact that media stereotyping has on perceptions of Asian masculinity.

    But why don’t you ever talk about some of the fantastic role models there are out there like Tony Hsieh for instance? You’re a teacher – don’t you want to inspire and uplift as well as inform??

    I look at my husband and I see a strong, handsome and very successful Asian Australian man. Why not talk about people like that?

    Like


  123. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 10:42:14 wordynerdygirl

    Oh, and for the benefit of other readers:

    The only places where you will see a “60 year old’ white man with a young Asian woman are in Thailand and the Philippines and, to a lesser extent, the poorer regions of Mainland China.

    You will NEVER see this scenario in South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong or Taiwan. Never.

    Like


  124. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 12:30:16 wordynerdygirl

    @ Kiwi

    Well, then I’d say that the men most likely met the women overseas. You cannot tell me that a young, attractive Asian American woman would hook up with a 60 year old. I can’t suspend my disbelief for that, sorry.

    Like


  125. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 12:31:19 wordynerdygirl

    *Oh, and by overseas I meant in countries where the 60 white guy could rely on perceived economic power status to attract women.

    Like


  126. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 12:31:33 wordynerdygirl

    *60 year old.

    Like


  127. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 12:55:38 wordynerdygirl

    @ Kiwi

    Please read my comments. You and Jefe were claiming that Asian women, in Asian countries, prefer white men and will abandon their Asian partners to be with them.

    If you want to post links, post something about that. You can’t, because it’s not true.

    Like


  128. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 13:04:11 wordynerdygirl

    Anyway, it’s mostly about economics in my opinion.

    Witness the exponential growth in much older South Korean farmers who are marrying very young Vietnamese brides: (http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21602761-korean-men-are-marrying-foreigners-more-choice-necessity-farmed-out)

    Read the narrative in the article – the South Korean men are looking for a more ‘traditional’, ‘submissive’ bride – sound familiar? This has nothing to do with perceptions of South Korean racial superiority and everything to do with the increasing clout of SK as an economic and cultural power.

    Like


  129. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 13:08:18 wordynerdygirl

    Here is another link about this growing trend:

    (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2011354,00.html) “The Vietnamese woman will be faithful, submissive, between the ages of 18 and 25 and a virgin, the agency promises….”

    Like


  130. on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 13:10:01 wordynerdygirl

    … sorry, and my comment about it being mostly economics was about marriages between much older men and much younger women.

    Over and out.

    Like


  131. OK, Wordynerdygirl,

    First of all, I want to remind you and everyone that I have always appreciated and welcomed your input and continue to do so. Some of your commentary has been particularly insightful.

    The VAST majority of Korean women prefer Korean men. Korean women who date out are a minority. If Kiwi had actually lived there (which I frankly don’t accept) he would be aware of this.

    While some Western beauty standards/racist stereotyping has ‘bled’ into other countries in MY experience Asian men are seen as masculine and attractive by most Asian women in Asia.

    Although I do not have actual direct experience in South Korea, I do completely agree with you 100% on this. In fact, it is true in most Asian countries. My comment was more about the experience of Asian Americans (re: Asian women breaking up with Asian men and seeking white men), but I have witnessed it sometimes in Asia. Where it is almost “normal” in the USA, it is not the norm in Asia, at least not everywhere, or not quite yet.

    I can only guess that your experience has been limited to countries like the Philippines, Thailand and perhaps to a lesser extent Mainland China.

    Then you guess completely wrong.

    I have studied / taken course in Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Philippines and lived and worked in HK and Japan. I travel very frequently around Asia for work and for pleasure, including all over China (from Xinjiang to Hainan to NE China), HK, Macau, Taiwan, Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia.
    In my prior job at an international management consulting firm, I was the global contact in my area of expertise for HK and Taiwan, and also directly assisted my colleagues often in almost all the countries listed above. In my current work, I have to interview workers in all the countries listed above, plus workers from India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal, etc. I also did volunteer work for many years at the Asian Migrant worker centre in HK, which serves workers from the Philippines, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Nepal.

    I also did volunteer work in Chinatown, Boston serving new immigrants when I was a university student, worked several years in a Chinese restaurant in Virginia whose workers hailed from Mainland China, Cambodia and Vietnam and also worked in a garment factory in New York City Chinatown.

    I have limited experience with South Korea directly, although I did work closely with my colleagues there.

    This takes place well over 3 decades, and I have lived permanently in Asia for over 19 years, most of my adult life.

    I mentioned before that attitudes are changing here in Australia too. A while back I cited from a study (I linked it too) that showed that the rate of intermarriage is now almost the same for second generation Asian men and women in Australia.

    That is GREAT and wonderful news. Do you have any links for that?

    However, if it is indeed true, Australia is one of the few places that can claim that. It certainly is not true in the USA and not true in all the places in Asia that I have been. I have discussed this with people both in and from Australia, and while Australia is progressive in many ways, it still has a way to go. But admittedly, Australia is increasingly visualizing itself as connected to Asia. The USA does not.

    I spent less than a month in Australia, but I know many people from there, have many students from Australia, in daily contact with people who live and work there, and try to watch as much news programs and documentaries from Australia as I can. I subscribe to Australian TV networks. But I am always, happy, willing and eager to learn more.

    I look at my husband and I see a strong, handsome and very successful Asian Australian man. Why not talk about people like that?

    You are in an excellent position to share with us stories about Asian Australian men, better than me. You are welcome to share.

    Oh, and for the benefit of other readers (re Wordynerdygirl’s comment):

    The only places where you will see a “60 year old’ white man with a young Asian woman are in Thailand and the Philippines and, to a lesser extent, the poorer regions of Mainland China.

    You will NEVER see this scenario in South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong or Taiwan. Never.

    This is most unequivocally WRONG.

    As I said above, I have scant experience with South Korea, but decades of intimate and extensive experience with the other places and find it SO not the case.

    I will AGREE that it may be more common in the Philippines and Thailand. I don’t agree that it will be that common in poor remote regions of China as there are not too many “mature” white men in those places (I have never seen mature white men in rural remote Yunnan villages or desert cooperatives in Gansu, but maybe there are some). But I have seen it plenty of times in the other places. Less than Philippines or Thailand, but still I have seen it.

    Anecdotal example: I had a prior senior colleague (native of Scotland) at one of the international management consulting firm in Hong Kong who was the Asia Pacific Regional director. He was in his late 50s at the time and had a scandal with a young Asian female. He left to be the Asia Pacific director of a major US investment firm. Again a young Asian women scandal. He went and opened his firm in Singapore (by that time he was past 60) and again, I hear of what happened with young Asian females. Later on, he ended up being my colleague again at another firm and I frequently saw him at expat places with young Asian females. Different ones at different times.

    He was an infamous case, but is not the only one I’ve personally seen or heard about. I heard about it so SO many times that I try to avoid those places where it occurs or where people talk about it. I am sick and tired of seeing mature white men with young Asian females.

    I was also very active on several Hapa / Eurasian discussion forums for over 10 years. A significant minority of the participants had older white fathers and much younger Asian mothers, so I have spoken to a lot of those kids and young adults. Certainly not all, maybe not even most, had mothers from Thailand or the Philipines.

    @Wordynerdygirl,
    When I say “whites”, “Asians”, “blacks”, I never mean ALL, or necessarily even MOST. It means some, or possibly many. I saw in other comments how you object to terms like “whites”, “Asians”, etc. as “intelligent” people interpret that to mean all. I would counter that intelligent people don’t, or at least shouldn’t interpret it that way.

    And if you use all encompassing words like ALL or NEVER in your statements (esp. in CAPS), then people, even intelligent people, may interpret your statement to mean 100% or 0% of the cases. Unless you have actually examined 100% of the cases, it will undermine your credibility to use such all encompassing statements like that.

    I will accept it if you state that you are not aware of cases, or you have not read about such cases, but I don’t see how you can state it doesn’t happen. Your statements (and thus, you) start to lose credibility when you do that. I have extensive experience with both expats and locals and foreign workers in many Asian countries, and interview or teach people, often in their native languages, all across Asia.

    As I said, your insight is always welcome. You add a lot of good stuff to the conversation. But sometimes, and only sometimes, it is a bit hard to take.

    Kiwi sometimes makes seemingly encompassing statements based on limited anecdotal evidence or on something that he read. But I never interpret it as “ALL” or “NEVER”. I know it is based on limited information. But then you condemn such behaviour by others and then do it yourself, using words like “ALL” and “NEVER” which he doesn’t.

    H-m-mh.

    Like


  132. Kiwi:

    My fondest wish is to marry a rich old white man, preferably one with a chronic heart ailment.

    Like


  133. Oh, and he has to have his wits about him in order for the will to be valid.

    Like


  134. @Hernith

    lol that’s terrible.

    Like


  135. bms103

    I am late to respond, but welcome and yes this site can get very interesting. LOL.

    Like


  136. leigh204

    “What are the names of the different performers if you don’t mind me asking?” —I got stuck on Timothy DeLaGhetto videos. This guy is hilarious. I reallu just can’t help it. I put music on hold for a bit.

    “t’s sad, but not uncommon for songs coming from another country to lose their “flavor” once it enters the States. “—I thought I was the only person who noticed that. I thought maybe it was just me who thought they sounded different or were different. Thanks for that information. I had no idea Girls’ generation made it over here. I try to distance myself from American TV as much as possible., so it easily slipped past me. I like that song but the mesh up they did made me cringe.

    Thanks for the other links as well. I figured Psy was not new, but I was not certain. The way people were eating it up made me roll my eyes though. I am not sure how much you know about 2ne1, but this was very dishearting to find: http://www.kpopsurgery.com/nose-job/plastic-surgery-meter-park-bom-2ne1/
    I am not a huge fan of Park Bom, but she is looking creepy. I never knew she was so into plastic surgery until the video falling in love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEVd9pSG85Q).

    Like


  137. @ Mary

    “Everyone involved in this poor man’s demise needs to loose their jobs and be sued. Racist cretins.”—I agree in full with this statement.

    Like


  138. @lifelearner

    I just started watching the video you posted. So far it seems really good. This tells me that if want to see something worth it start checking through youtube.

    Like


  139. @ MsTooGood,
    Ok, let me know when you are caught up. I need to discuss regarding the new district manager, the new assistant & Janae. I think they got so much going on! The tea, the new restaurant in TN, the one that was suppose to be in TX. Lots to chat about 😀

    @Sharina,

    Oh it’s soooo GOOD, let me recommend so more webseries for you,
    Roomiesloversfriends, The UnWritten Rules (being the only woman of color in the office setting-pretty funny) and Awkward Black Girl ( if you haven’t seen it yet).

    I’ve pretty much given up the BoobTube other than Iyanla’s show and Sweetie Pies. I will support Shonda Rimes new series How To Get Away with Murder.

    Like


  140. As an Asian woman, personally, I didn’t have an interest in dating white men. However, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t curious about what it would be like if I dated non-asian men; not just white. Idk what it is, but I preferred to be with Asian men because I felt we had a connection with being Asian. And that’s even more interesting considering there has been infighting/hostility among different Asians for ages, e.g., Japanese versus Korean or East Asian versus SE Asian.

    I’ve also had a few Asian (Westernized) women wonder why I only dated Asian men and that I should try white men. Try? That made it sound as if I was trying on a shoe or something. No, Asian men will always be in my heart. And that’s why I married my love. Yes, as cheesy as it sounds, it’s true. My feelings for Asian men are strong.

    Like


  141. @ lifelearner

    I love blackandsexy youtube channel. do u watch hello cupid too? roomies lovers and friends is getting good, I bet tamiko is going to find out her dad is dating jay’s ex next episode. I like the couple but they stopped making it and said it will be on hbo. Yes unwritten rules is great, so is their other show everything I did wrong in my 20’s

    Like


  142. @peanut

    I have been wanting to ask you this and I hope this does not come off wrong. Do you feel comfortable dating men of other races and ethnicity?

    Like


  143. @lifelearner

    Thanks for the additional recommendations.

    Like


  144. @ Peanut:

    @ leigh,

    that’s how i used to feel about Black men. I mean, still feel that way. I still feel that I have a stronger bond with them than any other man, but at the same time, I’ve become more open to non-Black men because I feel that I have to…and also the loyalty isn’t reciprocated so I’m done with that. I’ll never exclude Black men or mistreat them based on skin color or anything, I’ll never put white men on a pedestal. I know their privilege is largely inherited at the expense of non-whites, so I don’t have rose-colored glasses when it comes to that. But at the end of the day, I have to do what I have to do. I could end up with a hispanic, arab, white or black guy. who knows?

    I completely understand where you’re coming from. If you find love and have a connection with a person regardless of his background, more power to you. And it’s true. You live for yourself. Your utmost priority is your happiness. You deserve happiness, Peanut. 🙂

    Like


  145. @ Sharina:

    leigh204

    “What are the names of the different performers if you don’t mind me asking?” —I got stuck on Timothy DeLaGhetto videos. This guy is hilarious. I reallu just can’t help it. I put music on hold for a bit.

    He’s funny, isn’t he? Due to being a YouTube “celebrity”, he eventually paid off the rest of his parents’ mortgage. I teared up because it’s obvious his parents raised him well.

    “t’s sad, but not uncommon for songs coming from another country to lose their “flavor” once it enters the States. “—I thought I was the only person who noticed that. I thought maybe it was just me who thought they sounded different or were different. Thanks for that information. I had no idea Girls’ generation made it over here. I try to distance myself from American TV as much as possible., so it easily slipped past me. I like that song but the mesh up they did made me cringe.

    Well, I think whoever was in charge with bringing Girls’ Generation to the US, they thought the group would have crossover appeal if they tweaked their songs to suit the American palate. However, their song didn’t translate well for the American audience.

    Thanks for the other links as well. I figured Psy was not new, but I was not certain. The way people were eating it up made me roll my eyes though. I am not sure how much you know about 2ne1, but this was very dishearting to find: http://www.kpopsurgery.com/nose-job/plastic-surgery-meter-park-bom-2ne1/
    I am not a huge fan of Park Bom, but she is looking creepy. I never knew she was so into plastic surgery until the video falling in love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEVd9pSG85Q).

    Yeah, I heard of 2NE1. They’re one of my favorite K-pop girl bands. One of their singers, Dara Park, actually competed in a tv show in the Philippines before she made it big in the K-pop scene with her group, 2NE1. Btw, I do think it’s sad Dara’s bandmate, Park Bom, went overboard with the surgery. However, it’s not uncommon for singers in the K-pop industry to have plastic surgery. In fact, it’s even expected. Personally, I think Park Bom has one of the best voices in K-pop music. Here she is in an audition. She already did plastic surgery at that point. She should’ve stopped there because she still appeared normal looking. Now, she looks so plastic.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHK2vhMO72w)

    Like


  146. @Sharina- no problem

    @Abagond- a post on Renisha McBride and the surprising verdict given the track record of the US judicial system? I wonder what the make up of the jurors with a judgement of GUILTY!

    @MsTooGood- I just know of the ones above re: webseries. I will need to subscribe to Black&Sexy channel. RoomiesLverFrnds going to HBO ooh, I’ll have to look out for that. The 20s show, I haven’t seen it yet. Thanks for the recs.

    Like


  147. leigh204

    He is funny and the mere fact that he does not have his own tv show or something on mainstream says a lot about the media. I talked with someone the other day about the lack of creativity in our mainstream media. For example this new rise of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and super hero movies in general. All of that has been done and yet a new year brings a new mesh up of it. Yet here on youtube you are finding some of the best tv shows and comedians you have seen in a long time. I have been asking….what is wrong with this picture? And they wonder why more and more people are opting for just internet instead of cable.

    I loved that he paid off his parents house. That was soooo sweet.

    “However, their song didn’t translate well for the American audience.”—They didn’t and I have asked myself…what is wrong with it still being in the original language. Psy did his song in Korean and it passed through just fine.

    Love Dara Park. My favorite use to be Minzy but I have realized that I love the group as a whole.

    “However, it’s not uncommon for singers in the K-pop industry to have plastic surgery.”—I had no idea it was such a problem. In most of the Kpop girls groups I really can’t tell. I really had no idea that Park Bom was even doing plastic surgery until that video came out and I said “ What! Is going on with her!” She didn’t need it. I imagine most girls who get it just don’t need it. A kdrama I use to watch (secretly still do) pointed out some of the plastic surgery issues, but because it was not major I just attributed to rich kids. The kdrama is called boys over flowers.

    Like


  148. Peanut

    My preferences has always leaned towards Asian and Hispanic men so in some things I say it might seem like I am boasting them, but with them I would go for it. If you know an area that is highly concentrated with Asian or Hispanic men that have had a large interaction with people of all races, I have found that they seem to careless about marrying white women and seem to be more open to dating and marrying black women. Where I live I see a nice mix of Hispanic and Black or Asian and black mixtures.

    If you really really want a black man then I highly suggest looking for one out of the country. Ethiopian men men are a good start (don’t give up on finding one of them) and I had a friend of mine from Africa that was looking, but we have greatly lost touch, so I would not be able to recommend him.

    Regardless of all that. I just hope you find someone that makes you happy, but don’t give up either. Perhaps he might jump out at you ans surprise you when you least expect it.

    If all else fails and you do end up with a white man, there is nothing wrong with introducing him to how white supremacy works as it is all likely he has no idea.

    Like


  149. Um… Some white people made an app to help white people avoid black neighbourhoods.

    This is so fecking moronic it’s embarrassing.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/08/these-white-people-just-made-an-app-for-avoiding-black-neighborhoods/

    Like


  150. Kiwi

    Do you have any theories on why Asian women do this? Why are they so willing to reinforce this racial superiority rather than challenge this? And from your experience have you met many Asian women with white partners that have or are willing to? Also (and I know I am asking a ton of questions) do Asian women who date white men shame Asian women who date or choose Asian men as partners?

    Thanks for the link. Although the numbers were disheartening they were not shocking.

    A friend of mine said a white man came up to her and said she was beautiful. He then followed up by saying his wife thought she was beautiful as well. He ended up propositioning her to make an arrangement with him and his wife. I wonder what the stats would be in regards to white men sexually exploiting black women.

    Like


  151. @ peanut

    people bring black women into everything, one time I was looking up a cake recipe and somehow black women got brought up, like wtf does a black woman have to do with a cake. Men do find black women attractive, online is full of haters, but in life I see average looking black women getting attractive men. personality is important, forget what the media and the brainwashed black folks say.

    People crave our approval whether they admit it or not, it is part of the reason the black males that date interracially will look at u and try to see if u are mad, they are looking for the slightest “attitude” from u to prove they are right. They are immature, and would rather live in another man’s house than go build their own. These are the ones that will demand folks to build or give them something even if it of less quality instead of making their own .They would rather lighten up their kids as much as possible so they won’t have to deal with the side effects of blackness, instead of challenging the system that causes the anti blackness.

    The black men like Malcolm x are few and far between in this generation, there are some that appreciate black women but will not stand up for whatever reason. Parents dropped the ball imo, they expect their daughters to be smart, pretty, feminine, etc, but for their sons they just expect them to play sports, make money, do well enough in school. These sons grow up and have no pride and have a selfish instant gratification mentality. so no they will not be out there fighting the power, shoot a lot of them won’t even stand up for themselves.

    Like


  152. @King,

    Yes, a few years ago they mentioned that non-Hispanic whites made up less than 1/2 of all babies being born nationwide. Now they say that non-Hispanic whites make up less than 1/2 of all public school students. In a few years, they will say that non-Hispanic whites make up less than 50% of all university students nationwide, which will make the Ivy League look real bad, as an elite institution primarily for whites.

    It harkens to the fear surrounding the nativist and Yellow Peril scares of the 19th century, the influx of non-English speaking European immigrants 100 years ago, the mid 20th century Great Migrations followed by white flight, all suggesting that white Anglo-Americans are “losing” their country to someone else.

    I advocate a more realistic and inclusive sort of education, which also permits students to develop their unique heritages as well, instead of forcing them into the same white anglo cookie cutter mold, internalizing hatred toward the pieces that don’t fit the mold. I need to read more about Duncan Arne’s plans. Do you have a good link handy?

    @Kiwi,

    Which gets me down to you.

    California is not unique or the first to deal with non-Hispanic minority classrooms. 100 years ago, many states in the South were majority black. Even today, we have Hawaii, New Mexico, DC, Texas, and soon to come Maryland and Georgia. But historically, each place and each era has dealt with it differently. I do want to ask you about California.

    150 years ago, German immigrants came in large numbers. Some German schools were set up in the USA in areas that had a lot of German immigrants (making German the 2nd language of the USA in the late 19th century). But their children just decided to send their kids to the Anglo schools, they intermarried, and now it has been lost, absorbed mostly into Anglo culture and communities.

    100 years ago, Northern and Midwestern cities had large recent influxes of immigrants from Eastern and southern Europe. But the education idea was to make the children white Americans as soon as possible. They were taught to spurn their family cultures and become “American”. After WWII, that is exactly what they did.

    At the same time, blacks from majority black districts in the South were taught nothing about their history. The colored schools received hand-me-down textbooks from the white schools, and was not even in session as long as the white schools. They made no attempt to gear the education system for them. Perhaps the schools only felt they needed to learn very basic reading and arithmetic and cared less if they learned anything besides white history.

    50-60 years ago, the urban areas of the North, Midwest and West received millions during the Great Migration, which was followed by the civil rights movement and white flight. Suddenly classrooms in those areas became majority non-white. The Civil Rights era taught educators that the books had been overly white focused, but the method used to diversify the materials was “tokenism”. Selecting a few blacks and Native Americans to be heroes, or learning the history of “Kwanzaa”. But this was largely selected by whites, and it had to be consistent with all of the “white is right” and “America is right” theme. Asian American history was not included at all, including no “heroes” even those selected by whites.

    Starting 30-50 years ago, Mexican-Americans have been reclaiming the SW (of which California is a part) and southern Florida has largely been reclaimed by Cuba and the Caribbean. The response by whites/ anglos was to remove their history out of the curriculum, forcing them to identify with white Anglo-American history and culture. This is basically the approach taken towards educating Native Americans.

    I get the impression that California has never added relevant Asian-American history to their curriculum. Is that true? Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos have a rich history in California, and Chinese and Filipinos have been settling in California since the 1580s, but their entire history is left out of the curriculum, except for a few token tidbits (e.g., the railroad and possibly the Japanese-American internment).

    Couple questions:
    1. Do you think that the model adopted in California will become the model for the rest of the Country? if so, then we might expect the “Expansion of Whiteness” model.

    2. How do you think it will play out in Maryland, where blacks outnumber both Asians and Hispanics and already outnumber whites many of its districts? MD is the next state to become minority-majority, probably by 2020, and Asian and Latino ratio are also higher there than the Nation as a whole. Well, I suppose we have DC as an example.

    3. Do you think there will be a movement to change the education model as state by state becomes minority-majority?

    4. Do you think that whites will care less and less about what is being taught to non-whites? (Not that they care that much now anyhow). I suspect that we might see growing movements to force homogenization in the name of making the country more cohesive, e.g.,
    – colour-blind racism
    – omission of any history that does not support the “white is right” mentality. Any non-white image will be one selected by whites and promoted by whites.
    (e.g., GW Carver, Booker T., MLK, Jr. are OK, Frederick Douglass, WEB DuBois and Malcolm X are not.)

    Like


  153. @Peanut,

    Who said I was mad at you?

    Like


  154. I was not mad at you. I just was wondering why you needed to ask certain personal questions that I had addressed previously in order to engage in discussion. But I see that you wish to have personal discussions. I’m not mad, it is just sometimes I feel forced to give answers to certain questions.

    B.R. is mad at just about everyone. Or maybe he is just simply *MAD*.

    Like


  155. @ All

    No one is under any obligation to answer any personal question. As it is, some people say too much and then wind up asking me to delete all their comments on the site.

    Like


  156. @ Sharina:

    leigh204

    He is funny and the mere fact that he does not have his own tv show or something on mainstream says a lot about the media. I talked with someone the other day about the lack of creativity in our mainstream media. For example this new rise of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and super hero movies in general. All of that has been done and yet a new year brings a new mesh up of it. Yet here on youtube you are finding some of the best tv shows and comedians you have seen in a long time. I have been asking….what is wrong with this picture? And they wonder why more and more people are opting for just internet instead of cable.

    You know what I find laughable? That Hollywood remade Asian movies that have already been done. It’s as if it’s not good enough as it is so they change it. I’m just happy YouTube exists to showcase extremely talented non-white performers that I’d probably never see on tv or movies. However, it’s a d*mn shame that many of them will never get their big break because they don’t have that mass appeal. You know what I’m talking about.

    I loved that he paid off his parents house. That was soooo sweet.

    I know! It was so touching. However, I’m not actually surprised. It’s probably an Asian thing to help out your family members in some way. I know my mom (may she RIP) put her younger siblings through university.

    “However, their song didn’t translate well for the American audience.”—They didn’t and I have asked myself…what is wrong with it still being in the original language. Psy did his song in Korean and it passed through just fine.

    I think Girls Generation or SNSD as they’re called in South Korea wanted to make it more appealing to Westerners. And that’s kind of funny when you think about it because Kpop is more popular to non-Koreans than ever.

    Love Dara Park. My favorite use to be Minzy but I have realized that I love the group as a whole.

    “However, it’s not uncommon for singers in the K-pop industry to have plastic surgery.”—I had no idea it was such a problem. In most of the Kpop girls groups I really can’t tell. I really had no idea that Park Bom was even doing plastic surgery until that video came out and I said “ What! Is going on with her!” She didn’t need it. I imagine most girls who get it just don’t need it. A kdrama I use to watch (secretly still do) pointed out some of the plastic surgery issues, but because it was not major I just attributed to rich kids.

    Getting your face done in South Korea is quite routine especially eyelid surgeries. While it may cost several thousands in the US, it’s usually less than a thousand in Korea. Some high school girls get it done as a graduation present. Btw, the Korean esthetic is very narrow as you can already tell by the kind of look they go for over there. Big eyes, small face, narrow chin, etc. However, I will say this. A lot of the surgeries taking place in South Korea are actually non-Koreans who go there for the medical tourism.

    The kdrama is called boys over flowers.

    I love Boys Over Flowers! All the women I know (who happened to be Asian) drooled over lead actor Lee Min Ho. He’s cute, but there are cuter Korean celebrities imho.

    Like


  157. @ Peanut

    I noticed.

    Like


  158. Has anyone been interested in that story of the Thai surrogate who took in a Down Syndrome child after his parents from Australia abandoned him? THe Australian couple denied it and said they wanted to take him. FYI, the father is a convicted pedophile sex offender! He looks really old, too, but he’s only 56. The Asian wife, I read somewhere she’s originally from China, met him online and eventually married him. I must find that link! Anyway, it makes me wonder if this was before or after she learned he had a lengthy history of sexually abusing young girls? Sickening. Just sickening all around. I feel so sorry for the poor baby brought into this mess.

    Like


  159. @Peanut

    Have to be careful about sharing too much personal information here. Some commenters use that to browbeat others. In fact, your friend B.R. is one of the offenders. In particular, he likes to rub salt into some scars that covered wounds from some severe childhood traumas. Abagond already banned BR and Bulanik from talking to each other. I didn’t want to get to that stage, but there are certain commenters that one just should not engage with.

    If it is of any interest to you, one of the persons I use as a reference is Russell Wong, esp. since he starred in the movie “Eat a Bowl of Tea” (recommend that you see it if you haven’t seen it yet). He is someone in the similar generation as me, child of Chinese father and white mother who divorced, about the same height and size as me. When he came on the scene, it became easier for people to relate to me as there was another image that people were aware of and could relate to, esp. in the 1990s. The black ladies that my mother used to work with would say stuff to her like “I watched your son on TV last night again” (They were talking about Vanishing Son). It makes it easier for strangers to relate if there is a famous person that they have an image of. My mother kept my father’s Chinese (paper) surname and her coworkers had met me.
    They did not associate Russell Wong with my brother, whom they saw more often.

    Speaking of Vanishing Son, one of the actors Chi Muoi Lo wrote and starred in a movie “Catfish in Black Bean Sauce”, about a Vietnamese brother and sister pair adopted and raised in a black American family. I have not seen it yet. It might be interesting
    Trailer: (http://youtu.be/0-QTyVUc2RY)
    It is rare to see films which feature primarily a combination Asian and Black cast featuring very few whites (the main non-black non-Asian character is Native American) as well as romantic relationships between Asian men and black women. The dialogue features Asians and Blacks talking with each other about other Asians and Blacks and not about whites. I wonder if that satisfies Abagond’s Bechdel Test on race.

    And Speaking of Russell Wong again, one of the other things that I learned about him 25 years ago was the daughter that he had with a black American women, and he was a reference on that too. Before information was available on the internet, I only saw one photo of him with his daughter back in the 90s in a magazine. She is the most famous example that I know of a Eurasian father and a black mother.
    Here a profile of his daughter when she entered college:
    (http://fp.academic.venturacollege.edu/womensbasketball/07-08_VC_WBB/Profiles/Eja_Wong.htm)

    Like


  160. Peanut,

    My previous comment is in moderation (and I think I know why), but here is something else for you.

    “Dragon of Love” (http://youtu.be/ckGFc3cTHA8)

    Just have to make sure that Asian male / Black female fantasies don’t become some kind of stereotype fetish.

    Like


  161. Hi Leigh,

    Yes, I’ve been following it very closely – it’s been a page 1 story in Australia for a couple of weeks now.

    The so-called ‘parents’ did a confessional interview last night. The father of poor little baby Gammy was possibly the least believable interviewee I’ve ever seen.

    Here are a few clips/links:

    (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-10/baby-gammy-father-denies-threat-to-twin/5661242)

    (http://www.smh.com.au/world/david-and-wendy-farnell-demanded-refund-for-gammy-20140810-102kpn.html)

    (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/crocodile-tears-from-couple-over-baby-gammy-on-60-minutes/story-fni0fhie-1227019847211)

    Like


  162. @ Jefe

    “Abagond already banned BR and Bulanik from talking to each other.”

    What are you talking about?

    No, Jefe. It was not “mutual”.

    I asked Abagond to remind BR (as I asked asked, told and insisted that he stop) not to follow or refer to me.

    You obviously missed what was going on as well, didn’t you?

    Like


  163. If you have a moment, Jefe: give a thought to how, and why, THAT happened.

    Like


  164. @ leigh204

    Has anyone been interested in that story of the Thai surrogate who took in a Down Syndrome child after his parents from Australia abandoned him? THe Australian couple denied it and said they wanted to take him. FYI, the father is a convicted pedophile sex offender! He looks really old, too, but he’s only 56. The Asian wife, I read somewhere she’s originally from China, met him online and eventually married him. I must find that link! Anyway, it makes me wonder if this was before or after she learned he had a lengthy history of sexually abusing young girls? Sickening. Just sickening all around. I feel so sorry for the poor baby brought into this mess.

    A mess, for sure.
    When that story first broke, it was bad enough, and then with every following revelation, one by one, it got worse and worse…

    @ Wordy, thank you for those clips.

    Like


  165. @ Jefe

    Just have to make sure that Asian male / Black female fantasies don’t become some kind of stereotype fetish.

    There certainly doesn’t have to be any stereotype or fetish nonsense at all.

    I would have also liked very much to chat more about black women and Asian men, and mixed-race black women and Eurasian men — because this reflects my parents and most of my relatives and their relationships.
    There are some things I would have liked to say to Kiwi and you, also Peanut.

    But this is not the environment to do it in.

    Like


  166. anyone keeping an eye on STL?

    Like


  167. @Bulanik,

    I was thinking of the post that Abagond made a while back about which pairs of people would have their posts deleted if they addressed each other. He did not say who did what.

    I think a lot of the interchange got deleted after you requested. I hope I did not suggest something misleading. I never meant to imply it was mutual. Knowing how BR operates, I am sure the request was in one direction.

    BR almost got to the point where I was going to request the same of Abagond. He did something to me that I thought was 30-40 years behind me.

    You know, I am not sure I want to talk about such hateful depressing things

    Like


  168. @ Jefe

    It was not mutual.

    I wish I had been listened to.

    Like


  169. Jefe, understood.
    neither of us wanted to experience the hateful and depressing here, either.

    Like


  170. @ jefe

    Indians mistaking other Indians for Chinese:
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8slrzCK4g8)

    Like


  171. @ Jefe

    There’s an exhibit at the Smithonian Institute that focuses on ” he experiences of Indians in America and features an in-depth exploration of the heritage, daily experience, and numerous, diverse contributions that Indian immigrants and Indian Americans have made to shaping the United States.”

    One aspect the exhibition covers is immigration.
    Starting in the 1800s:

    “…as India struggled to survive under British colonial rule, the first wave of Indian immigrants came to the U.S. in search of political and personal freedom.
    Specifically, in the late 1800s and early 1900s, farmers from Punjab, oppressed by British taxation and restrictions on land ownership, settled along the American West Coast. They worked alongside Chinese immigrants in lumber mills and iron factories and on railroads to support the nation’s industrial boom.
    Meanwhile, peddlers from West Bengal, capitalizing on the American desire for “Oriental” goods such as silk and spices, set up shop along the Eastern seaboard. Indian seamen, eager to escape the boiling engine rooms of British steamers, began jumping ship in New York and Baltimore…”

    I had never heard of such a thing, have you?
    I wonder if John Jung has also looked at this?

    http://www.festival.si.edu/2014/beyond-bollywood-indian-american-experience/

    Like


  172. @Peanut,

    Of course, I know Rae Dawn Chong (Chinese-European father, African, Native, European mother) and her adopted brother Marcus Chong who is allegedly of black / Asian descent also. How could I forget?

    My niece just had a baby with a man who is black, Native, white mixture and decided recently to get engaged. I think we will see more and more quadriracial people in the next generation (not that we haven’t been having that all along).

    The whole thing about phenotypes and racial and ethnic identity between parents and children and between siblings is a complicated subject, and not all of it is pretty. Russell Wong already is multiracial;, his daughter’s mother probably is also. But people will try to impose racial identities on his daughter and others as well. Then they try to beat everything else out of them. Until that gets fixed, parents should plan and manage for it. But even the best of plans get messed up.

    You know which ethnic / racial groups voiced the most opposition towards the adoption of a multiracial identity?

    Like


  173. @Bulanik,

    Thank you for sharing that.

    I know that there was a Chinese Historical Society of America which was founded in San Francisco in 1863 (I stopped there to visit on my last trip to SF), and the Museum of Chinese in America, which opened in 1980, but was just moved to a larger space in 2009. I think I saw the old one (which was very tiny) back in the 1980s, but have not seen the new one. I will definitely check it out when I get back.

    Anyhow, my point was
    – you don’t see the relationship depicted in these museums between Chinese Americans and other groups, except for whites. So the history relating Chinese Americans to blacks, Indian Americans, Native Americans, just gets omitted and erased.
    – I am not aware of any Museum of Indian American in the USA. Are you? In fact the link you provided says it is ” The exhibition is the first major national exhibit to focus on the experiences of Indians in America”. Wow. Asian Indians have been in the USA for centuries, but started coming in significant numbers in the 1890s. but there history has not been recorded well or shared with the public. (I suspect that some were brought in during reconstruction, but not called Indians.)

    – The Smithsonian has a Museum of American history, which is basically about white American history. The Smithsonian also has the Anacostia Community Museum for African-American culture, the National Museum of African American History and Culture on the National Mall and the National Museum of the American Indian on the National Mall. There is no national museum for Asian America, so we should not be surprised that they are holding the first major exhibition on Indian America in the “Museum of National History”.

    – In all fairness, although the Smithsonian has no Museum of Asian America, there is a Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center (est. 1997), which was responsible for putting this Indian-American exhibition together. That center is headed by Konrad Ng, Obama’s brother-in-law.
    (www.smithsonianapa.org/)

    The exhibit you mentioned has a blog:
    (http://smithsonianapa.org/beyondbollywood/blog/)

    Like


  174. Is that the National Museum of African American History and Culture (NMAAHC) that’s being built, Peanut?

    http://nmaahc.si.edu/

    Like


  175. I’ve heard of the Charles Wright Museum, and am aware of at least 24 museums devoted to the history and culture of African Americans across the USA. The one in DC sounds like the first national one.

    Like


  176. @ Jefe

    I am not aware of any Museum of Indian American in the USA. Are you?

    No. Nothing.

    Like


  177. @ Jefe

    Whilst reading your reply to the comment about a history of African Americans dressing as Indians (in turbans) to bypass Jim Crow laws, I had a closer look one of my earlier links, the South Asian American Digital Archive:
    (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/bhagat-singh-thind/#comment-247430)

    That Archive is pretty interesting. There are some photos of Hindus that settled in San Francisco over a century ago, plus pamphlets on why they were excluded or “too brunette” to vote!
    http://www.saadigitalarchive.org/search/asian/period/1680-1923

    Like


  178. My eldest daughter shared this link with me on FB.

    Wow.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogCbwU4KGEY)

    Like


  179. I would like to have one (1) more child, maybe…

    Like


  180. How many kids do you have, V8?

    Like


  181. Rest in peace MIke Brown another young black man senselessly murder by policeman. Rest in peace to comedian Robin Williams. I loved him he was very funny. My heart is heavy today.

    Like


  182. Yes, RIP Robin Williams. I loved him too, had tears in my eyes when I read the news on Twitter. He always seemed like a very compassionate soul.

    Sorry to hear about Mike Brown too, it hasn’t hit the news here yet unfortunately.

    Like


  183. I had no idea Robin Williams was dead. I’m sorry to hear that.

    Like


  184. @ wordynerdygirl:

    Hi Leigh,

    Yes, I’ve been following it very closely – it’s been a page 1 story in Australia for a couple of weeks now.

    The so-called ‘parents’ did a confessional interview last night. The father of poor little baby Gammy was possibly the least believable interviewee I’ve ever seen.

    Here are a few clips/links:

    Thank you so much for the links! However, I couldn’t finish watching the clips all the way through without getting a sick feeling in my stomach. There’s something “off” about David Farnell when he said, “I come home from work some days and Wendy has dressed our little girl all in blue, because she wants, still to remember, the little boy.” The little boy? How odd for Mr. Farnell to refer to his son, Gammy, in that manner. And my gosh! Twenty-two convictions for sexually abusing minor girls! It’s no wonder this Mr. Farnell and his wife went abroad for surrogacy. Who in their right mind would allow him to have children in his care? It speaks volumes that he took off with his daughter while his son was left behind in Thailand. Ugh. *smh*

    Like


  185. Abagond: I am new here, so I may have missed your posting about this…Have you read “King Leopold’s Ghost”? I highly recommend it.
    namaste

    Like


  186. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    The little boy? How odd for Mr. Farnell to refer to his son, Gammy, in that manner.

    White men tend to see Asian males as pests, so that may have played a part.

    Yes, it’s possible, but I was thinking along the lines of David Farnell having a disconnect with his biological son due to his choice of words. I’m referring to the way Farnell said, “The little boy” rather than “OUR little boy” as if Gammy was a stranger.

    Like


  187. @Bulanik,
    Just saw your video about the Indians mistaking other Indians as Chinese and then mixing up further “Oh you’re Japanese? ‘Gracias'”.

    India and China are such huge countries, you will see all sorts of things.

    Like


  188. I wonder if they will still keep the Anacostia Community museum after the NMAAHC is opened.

    I would like to visit the Smithsonian again, this time with a more discerning eye. I sometimes miss a few things about Washington, DC.New York too. At least those are the two places I go to mostly when I visit the USA.

    Like


  189. @ Peanut

    What is your request?

    Like


  190. @ jefe:

    @Peanut

    Have to be careful about sharing too much personal information here. Some commenters use that to browbeat others. In fact, your friend B.R. is one of the offenders. In particular, he likes to rub salt into some scars that covered wounds from some severe childhood traumas. Abagond already banned BR and Bulanik from talking to each other. I didn’t want to get to that stage, but there are certain commenters that one just should not engage with.

    Yes, you’re correct. Some regular commenters as well as anonymous commenters will take potshots at you if you reveal too much information. I only know this too well. I had talked about my mom’s cancer and her eventual passing on here and some character vehemently disagreed with me on a particular topic, and he made a reference to my mother being underground and essentially, being worm food. Wow. And recently, another person took it upon himself to attack my appearance and my husband because of what I said in another thread. Sometimes, there are sad, pathetic souls out there who try to get the best of you.

    Like


  191. @ Sharina

    Thanks for the Mike Brown link. Extremely pro-police, but not surprising coming from the New York Times.

    Like


  192. @ gj

    Have not yet read “King Leopold’s Ghost”, though I have heard it was good. Thanks for the recommendation.

    Like


  193. My favorite Robin Williams movie is “What Dreams May Come” That is an excellent film.

    Like


  194. @Peanut:

    @ leigh

    for someone to speak of your mother that way is just crazy and to attack your appearance is a low blog. you’re a pretty woman any way. I hope Abagond banned that person.

    Gosh, it’s been over two and a half years. If I recall, the person who talked smacked about my mother wasn’t banned, but his comment was deleted by Abagond.

    @ Kiwi:

    Kiwi

    @ leigh204

    I had talked about my mom’s cancer and her eventual passing on here and some character vehemently disagreed with me on a particular topic, and he made a reference to my mother being underground and essentially, being worm food.

    You must be talking about duckduckgoofs. I showed you a link before explaining that he came back as a sock puppet twice, for a total of three bannings. His other two accounts were Churchs Chicken and Da Jokah.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/11/11/the-black-illegitimacy-argument/#comment-229594

    He should be back any day now, but it’ll be very easy to tell who he is.

    It could very well have been duckduckgoofs. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised. This person must’ve read what I wrote because he seemed to know when my mother died. However, I honestly don’t remember the commenter’s name, but I can’t forget the despicable comment made about my dearly beloved mother. You can’t forget disgusting sh*t like that.

    Like


  195. @ Pumpkin formerly known as Peanut:

    Why the change from Peanut to Pumpkin? 😎

    Like


  196. Here’s my own bit of perspective on Michael Brown and the police response to the protests.

    http://macklyons.blogspot.com/2014/08/this-is-what-domestic-terrorism-looks.html

    Like


  197. @ Pumpkin:

    @ leigh,

    I wanted a change. I also changed my avatar in case you noticed.

    Indeed, I did. Nice avatar. 😀 Hmm. Sometimes, I feel like I want to change my name, too, but I’ve been leigh204 for so long so I don’t know if I should even bother. 😎

    Like


  198. omg dyfs or cps whatever they’re called now called me up today my ex-wife got a new case and ‘people are calling about her all the time’…
    i really gotta get my shit together

    Like


  199. @Abagond: Another young black man shot in Los Angeles. Ezell Ford shot in the back by cops while lying down on the ground.

    Like


  200. In my neck of the woods, there’s an annual multicultural festival called Folklorama. Many countries showcase their culture through food, arts, and entertainment. One of my longtime friends is a production dance coordinator and her dance troupe is amazing! They’re called Magdaragat which means Voyagers of the sea. I’m so proud of all their hard work. Anyway, I just wanted to share with you aspects of my Philippine culture.

    https://www.facebook.com/MagdaragatPhilippinesInc

    Please check out the video section on Facebook. You’ll see some of the cultural dances on there. I hope you guys will enjoy it.

    Like


  201. @ Pumpkin

    I sent Kiwi your email address.

    Like


  202. @ Pumpkin

    Try Livy.

    Like


  203. @Pumpkin:

    For a rollicking good read, try Suetonius, ‘The Twelve Caesar’.

    Like


  204. We should definitely have a BW/AM post. It’s about time.

    Like


  205. @leigh204

    Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. School is starting up and things have been crazy.

    “That Hollywood remade Asian movies that have already been done. It’s as if it’s not good enough as it is so they change it. I’m just happy YouTube exists to showcase extremely talented non-white performers that I’d probably never see on tv or movies. However, it’s a d*mn shame that many of them will never get their big break because they don’t have that mass appeal. You know what I’m talking about.”—I agree. One of my favorite horror movies so happen to be Ju-on. Annoyed when they remade it, called it The Grudge, brought in a bunch of white characters, and made it confusing. I am thankful for youtube as well, but those individuals on youtube deserve a huge break.

    “I know my mom (may she RIP) put her younger siblings through university.”—Wow. I admire that. I am sure she worked very hard to do that. Your mom sounds pretty amazing.

    “All the women I know (who happened to be Asian) drooled over lead actor Lee Min Ho”—I know what you mean. He annoyed me in Boys over Flowers but he grew on me. I notice him more than I notice other male actors in the Korean Dramas. My favorite female actor is Yoon Eun Hye. I love everything she is in. I have not watched Kdramas in awhile, so if you have any new ones to recommend then let me know.

    Like


  206. @Abagond: I don’t know if you would be interested in this but a post about Robin Williams and mental illness. I just got a revelation and an epiphany, the brain is just like any other part of the body that gets diseased. I will in the future have empathy and sympathy for those suffering. Robin Williams was such a talented and gifted man, yet he was suffering and to later learn he also had Parkinson’s disease. I am feeling very heavy in my heart. I enjoyed him as an entertainmer. May he rest in peace.

    Like


  207. *entertainer*

    Like


  208. @Kiwi

    That’s kind of strange that u would think Asian women dating white men are rejecting Asians like they actually wake up and vow to never date/marry an Asian guy again. Now I’m sure some do I actually no two Asian girls who do not like Asian guys and prefer white guys but I don’t think it’s necessarily hateful.

    Like


  209. @pumpkin

    Lol hell no! I’m black and female. Pretty young too. I just found myself disagreeing with Kiwi based on my own experience.

    Like


  210. @Kiwi
    Sorry if I misinterpreted your words. By hateful I meant racist as in I don’t think an Asian woman or any woman for that matter is necessarily racist for like white men or any other race of men. And I see your point when you say that Asian women by internalizing racism end up supporting white supremacy and continuing that cycle when they have half white half Asian children. I think that’s horrible and something that can be seen among blacks and other races as well.

    However I don’t think racial preferences are necessarily racist because I for example find mainly white men to be attractive even though I am black. I honestly don’t have any hate or disgust towards black men I just don’t find them ugly or attractive. I am completely neutral. I don’t think white men are better or superior I just find them attractive guys like Chris Evans Robert Downey Jr. and so on. So that’s why I said I don’t think a racial preference is automatically racist. It’s only racist if u refuse to give a nice guy a chance because of his race like a black girl I knew who ONLY and I mean ONLY concerned herself with Asian guys.

    Like


  211. @Kiwi

    One of the Asian girls I mentioned were like what you described. Her comments on Asian men made me uncomfortable because not only did she seem kind of disgusted by them but her own aunt said to avoid them. The other one was more iffy she liked some Italian guy said she didn’t really like Asian guys. However she didn’t convey to me at least that she would never date one in her life.

    I feel like people bash the opposite sex of their own race to justify their attraction to other races. I think sometimes there’s a secret guilt they feel the need to relieve themselves of and make themselves feel better by painting all women or men of their race as lazy, sexist, ugly etc. I felt really guilty about my attraction to white guys and still do to a lesser extent. But I would never ever claim that white men r better than black men like some bw do. It’s just plain insane and low.

    If your attracted to another race so what. Don’t treat other memeber a of your race like crap though to defend it because it’s not only wrong but implies that perhaps you have self hatred deep within yourself.

    Like


  212. Kiwi,

    I was going to share a personal story about this Taiwanese girl I knew in the USA that completely wrote off Asian men and shared that with me. Maybe I get around to it some time.

    Needless to say, I think there is this huge psychological issue with modern day Asian American women. I cannot dismiss that there isn’t some internalized self-hatred. There may be some racial politics involved too – the woman often wants to join and participate in the white society.

    Also, when I was growing up, my father used to put down Asian women a lot. But he softened a bit when he hit middle age and my mother broke up with him.

    Like


  213. @ Jefe:

    Needless to say, I think there is this huge psychological issue with modern day Asian American women. I cannot dismiss that there isn’t some internalized self-hatred. There may be some racial politics involved too – the woman often wants to join and participate in the white society.

    Interesting. Sometimes, I do wonder why I turned out the way I did compared to some AAW. I know my upbringing had a lot to do with it. I was made very racially aware at a young age. I think the only thing I wasn’t prepared for was the eye pulling gestures. Compared to other family members and relatives, my eyes were much smaller. Most Filipinos have larger, double-lidded eyes. So imagine my shock when my eyes were constantly mocked for looking typically “Asian”.

    Another thing, I grew up in a predominantly white environment. I clearly remember my parents telling me to be with Asian men because we understand each other better. While they preferred I date/marry Filipino men because we shared a common culture and all, they were happy I dated other Asian men.

    Like


  214. @ Leigh, Jefe, Kiwi

    What about dating among different Asian groups?
    And particularly, how do East and Southeast Asians perceive South Asians as mates or dating partners? The latter are fewer in number and, generally, more recent in Canada and the USA, so I am curious what you’ve observed.

    @ Kiwi

    I’d be particularly interested to know your outlook on this, in view of what we touched on before, namely about perceptions of South Asians being dark-skinned in comparison to Asians who are lighter-skinned
    (I am only assuming you remember which conversation I mean, but I think I can find the conversation if you don’t recall it.)

    Like


  215. @ Leigh

    ….I clearly remember my parents telling me to be with Asian men because we understand each other better. While they preferred I date/marry Filipino men because we shared a common culture and all, they were happy I dated other Asian men.

    The part about “understanding each other” makes sense. No issue there.
    But what if you were from a multi-racial family, what then? What if one parent was from a family of different Asians, and your mother was mixed-race/black — who would “understand” you in that case?
    Would it be other, similarly “mixed” people?

    Like


  216. @ Bulanik:

    @ Leigh, Jefe, Kiwi

    What about dating among different Asian groups?

    I can only speak for myself, but as I mentioned earlier, my parents’ ideal would have been another Filipino (man). And eventually, I ended up marrying a non-Filipino. From personal experience, one of my Korean ex’s mom was far from pleased, in fact, she was furious, her son was dating me. She even said he might as well have been dating a black girl. Wth? Sorry to say, but East Asians look down on Southeast Asians. I’m sure she had a smug smile when her son and I broke up.

    And particularly, how do East and Southeast Asians perceive South Asians as mates or dating partners? The latter are fewer in number and, generally, more recent in Canada and the USA, so I am curious what you’ve observed.

    Again, I can only speak for myself, but I find Southeast Asians particularly Filipinos more receptive to dating South Asians. When Asians of various extractions started becoming more visible in my neck of the woods, I have met quite a few part East Indian and part Filipinos. And they happen to be all female for some reason!

    The part about “understanding each other” makes sense. No issue there.
    But what if you were from a multi-racial family, what then? What if one parent was from a family of different Asians, and your mother was mixed-race/black — who would “understand” you in that case?
    Would it be other, similarly “mixed” people?

    Hmm. That is a very good question. I also have a number of bi- and multi-racial relatives on my mom’s side of the family. I kid you not when I say, the small percentage of Filipino blood that they have, they are more readily accepted. Most Filipinos, that I know, don’t care whether you’re half this or a quarter that. If you have some Filipino in you, you’re considered Filipino. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but that’s my explanation.

    Like


  217. @kiwi

    I read an Asian American psychology textbook that made a bigger deal about how Asian men felt about the issue than about how Asian women enable it, as if Asian men are at fault but Asian women are blameless.

    written by an Asian American woman married to a white man no doubt?

    In any case, it is amazing how much Asian American women who date and marry white men understand the Asian American male psyche.
    NOT.

    Like


  218. @Pumpkin

    I don’t like to think of myself as brainwashed because I always prided myself in refusing to conform. I want to stand out and do my own thing. But I always figured my attraction to white men had a lot to do with media.

    Even though I don’t watch tv much I do watch a lot of movies and many of them r superhero movies like Iron Man Avengers Thor etc with white superheroes who save the day or villains that destroy everything. I didn’t really feel so attracted to white men until seeing a number of movies. First it was Tom Hiddleston as the evil Loki then Chris Evans as Capitian America Brad Pitt in World War Z and Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man

    All 4 were alike in many ways. All men were white obviously but more importantly they were confident,noble (except Loki but he did start off as a simple trickster) and had overcome many obstacles.

    However Captian America resonates deeply with me partly because of his looks but courage and refusal to succumb to anger and pessimism. He still keeps that foolish optimism and kindness towards everyone despite the pain and losses he has suffered. Hes obviously meant to show he greatness of America ending corruption saving the day but I don’t see him as a representation of America but a outstanding individual in his own right with his own setbacks.

    In contrast black men are usually not portrayed as gloriously even if they r not thugs or cons etc in media. Their just the average joy nothing spectacular about them. Just boring or dull. No great selflessness no charm in the media. Either a thug or sidekick to a white guy serving his interests and his alone for better or worse. I find it pathetic and laughable in a bitter sort of way. Of course this is not the case in real life you have subservient white guys and leading black men but so often in media that’s not the case. And if the the black guy is leading he is usually a bit old and not as attractive *cough Samuel L. Jackson*

    Like


  219. @Pumpkin

    Yeah white is right according to media. And I realize media has a impact on like on who or what we find attractive however it’s not all the medias fault. A lot of the time media shows what people want to see and that happens to be white male characters. To be “diverse” they throw in a black character who usually just helps white people or leads them but the focus is on whites still. So media does have a impact on my preferences.

    Still I think the reason I and other people may be attracted to a race is because of certain features. I remember being at one site where a white South African was saying he likes Asian women because many are petite which makes sense. still though you have petite black women white women etc but maybe he didn’t find that as common or just wasn’t interested for whatever reason.

    Me personally I like the different colored eyes of white men and ughhh especially if they have blue eyes and are blonde fit etc though I’m not exclusive to that. I don’t know many black guys with such features so that’s probably why I am not interested

    Like


  220. @Pumpkin

    Well I guess media shows white males in lead roles because that’s what many whites would rather see. I think many whites feel different from their black countrymen and that they have nothing in common and so can’t really relate/sympathize with a black lead character. Also as you said many in this society r taught that white is right and view blacks with outright hate at worst or at best pity.

    Black people feel the same way like we have no similarities with whites but for the most part we don’t really care if the lead is white Asian etc. if it’s a good movie whether horror drama etc we will watch it. Now many of us r starting to call for more diversity more realistic characters because the media too often is racist subtly or not and many dumb whites believe everything on tv to be representative of all blacks.

    That’s why media is largely white because that is what whites want and many black people accept it without too much of a fuss. That includes other people of color like Hispanics and Asians as well. If anything I would say blacks r more worried about things like police brutality discrimination which have immediate and more apparent negative affects.

    Like


  221. @Pumpkin

    That is a huge problem. some black people from that era r actuAlly thinking segregration was better because even though we couldn’t go to white schools with better facilities programs etc black schools were actually producing students that could read that were educated.

    Take the little rock nine who desegregated this all white high school. they risked their lives and for what? the school is till segregated except the military isn’t keeping blacks out.

    White kids sit with white kids black kids with black. many blacks take remedial asses while many whites r taking college level courses. It’s like two separate schools in one. One of the young girls who went to desegregate the school went back like 50 years later only to see that nothing had changed. If anything it seemed blacks were fading worst

    Like


  222. Obvious when people with recent subsharan african ancestry and people without such ancestry live together anywhere there is often trouble. Whites/asians/hispanics/etc. complain about the “violence”, “trouble-making”, “entitlement mentality” etc of Blacks, Blacks complain about “racism”, “police brutality”, “oppression”. So one wonders if it would´t be better if those people would simply live separated. Only problem: blacks obvious do prefer among non-blacks. Take the USA: whites tried to flee away from blacks (“white flight”) into the suburbs, but blacks simply followed and continue to do so. Take subaharan Africa itself: according to surveys zwo third of of the inhabitans would migrate to Europe tomorrow if they could. Whats the solution?

    Like


  223. ^ Yeah, it seems like the Asian American women in that video got their stereotypes (mostly viewed negatively) about Asian men from the media.

    Shows what happens when one is not in control of his own image.

    Like


  224. Just wondering.

    We have been discussing about how Asian American women married to white men are often spokespersons for the “Asian American” experience, and how their credibility might be dubious at times.

    What about Asian American men married to white men? (George Takei comes to mind.) Should we be wary of their credibility also? Or is that different?

    Like


  225. OMG, DJ is back. 😛

    Like


  226. @Kiwi,

    No, I meant Asian men married to white men, not to white women.

    Like


  227. Kiwi,

    My question was not about how repressed or oppressed Asian men who are married to white men are. My question was if that affected their credibility to represent the Asian American community, as we discussed earlier about being married to a white man might put an Asian American WOMAN’s credibility into question.

    Like


  228. @ Kiwi

    You said:

    I grew up in an area that has many South Asians, in addition to East Asians and whites. East Asians and Southeast Asians born and raised in the US generally don’t make much of a fuss over different East Asian or Southeast Asian ethnicities. East Asians and Southeast Asians are all just “Asians”. South Asians are usually not even regarded as “South Asians”. They’re often referred to as just “Indians”.

    I don’t doubt you on that. I realise that East and Southeast Asians in US, Canada and other countries tend to confine “Asian” as a descriptor for themselves and not for Asian peoples south or west of the continent.

    All the same, I’ve heard otherwise, partly because not all South Asians certainly are “Indian”. They could be Bengali, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, etc.

    So that reminds me of when, say, Thais, Koreans, or Japanese for example, are all just “Chinese”, a racial group that are “alike” or “the same” because that’s what they look like supposedly ,and “Chinese” is kind of generally what they ALL are, keeping it simple. (Note, I personally don’t think that is right at all — it’s inaccurate and wrong for all kinds of reasons; in essence, I feel it’s up to the people being described to name themselves — I am simply saying what I’ve heard.)

    Then, and many, many people of South Asian origin, when they DO say they are “Indians”, usually feel they have to qualify that by saying they are
    “Asian Indian” or “East Indian” because Indian is (sometimes or OFTEN) a reference to Native Americans, right?
    Jefe and I discussed this — over and over — and we disagreed about whether it was up to Indian Indiansto accept that they have to qualify their designation, despite all the confusion surrounding calling both Native Americans and South Asians “Indian”.

    Btw: what is interesting to me is how demographics will alter.
    How migrations will increase from South Asia to the Western countries.
    I haven’t read much on this, but, the South Asian populations are probably the most numerous on the globe(?), and may probably be so in the future(?), thus, they are of significant size and presence, and even though “Indians” might be marginal and relatively little known about in the West right now — and the Americas in particular — it may be harder to “peg”, dismiss and sideline them in discussions of race and mainstream culture, as time moves on…

    Like


  229. @ Kiwi

    Knowing East Asians, I always had the impression that the women were more racist than the men, because many are openly repulsed by dark-skinned men. This is reflected in real life. Almost all East Asian women that I have ever seen dating out were with white men, though they are still paradoxically more likely to date other nonwhites than East Asian men are.

    So: East Asian women are more racist, but more likely to date interracially, whereas East Asian men are less racist but more conservative in their dating choices.

    Wow. I really don’t know.
    I can only speak from my own experience and have not found that AT ALL.

    The East Asian women I’ve known will “say” they don’t like dark skinned men, but THEY WILL go for it — given the opportunity!!

    East Asian men seem more conservative, but they DO “come across” with time.
    I’ve seen this in the European context. I don’t know about US or Canada.

    To my own surprise, OkCupid’s dating stats showed that East Asian men are not as racist against South Asian women as I thought they would be. They are looked upon rather favorably….Instead, it was South Asian women who were the most racist against East Asian men, more so than all other races of women.

    This particular kind of racism, unfortunately, is true.
    South Asians / Indian women are very, very “picky” to the point of being actually stuck up when it comes these things.
    And contrary to media images of Indian women falling over themselves for the charms of practically any white man (rolls eyes) and being “easy meat” for white men, I have not seen this in life, ever. It’s a fiction, and a fantasy being written into tv culture…

    However, From talking to strangers and people I knew, this is due to arranged marriages being popular among South Asians, where the women especially are pressured to stay within their own culture.

    Arranged marriage is a factor, but there are others at play, not least caste.
    Caste penetrates and permeates everything, practically. It’s a social evil.
    Even among non-Hindus. It’s there, although more subtle among other religions and groups from India.
    It’s complicated, and I don’t even fully understand it myself, but the cultural traditions are not just complex, but they stick and stick hard, very hard.
    There is much cultural conditioning and brainwashing about staying in lane, not “polluting” oneself, being good, “honour” and on and on. Half the time I think Indian women have their own enslavement to Indian men so deeply ingrained that it would be totally inaccurate to call it “loyalty”. It’s the conditioning of the enslaved we are talking about here, Kiwi.

    Knowing who your family is, their “provenance”, so to speak — is very, very important in these traditions. You obey and you obey your elders.
    You also obey ancestry. That’s how it goes.

    There have been Indian women in my family who were turned down as marriage partners by Indian men (from India) because even though their character, looks, class, professional and economic factors were “of the right calibre”, the families in India could not satifactorially trace our family origins in India. There were even hints of “mixtures” from other places in Asia or Europe as well that they were not content with…!
    Genuine and deep feeling just didn’t get a chance!
    Indians from other parts of the diaspora do not seem as utterly rigid in what they accepted or rejected.

    Like


  230. @ Kiwi

    I don’t mean to say no Indian women at all depart from the hereditary pattern.
    A limited number do, and among immigrants after a while, many more might.

    The bit between 00.30 and 00.45 of this stand up routine made me smile:
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asv7n5v9DqY)

    Like


  231. @Kiwi

    There’s a short comment to you, following on from the last one, in moderation.

    Like


  232. @Kiwi

    I don’t find it surprising that a lot of white men don’t really care to pursue black women. black women are viewed as either sluts, ghetto, or just plain mean and domineering. they find us plain disgusting at worst or just feel indifferent at best.

    now Asian women have stereotypes like being submissive sex kittens which I think are just terrible but a lot of white men with Asian fetishes think are attractive in comparison to black women. they aren’t viewed as being as masculine and hard to get as black women

    Like


  233. @ Sharina:

    “All the women I know (who happened to be Asian) drooled over lead actor Lee Min Ho”—I know what you mean. He annoyed me in Boys over Flowers but he grew on me. I notice him more than I notice other male actors in the Korean Dramas. My favorite female actor is Yoon Eun Hye. I love everything she is in. I have not watched Kdramas in awhile, so if you have any new ones to recommend then let me know.

    Oh, you like her? She’s a pretty good actress. Did you know she used to be in a Korean pop girl band called Baby V.O.X (Voice Of Expression) as a teenager? I also haven’t watched Korean dramas in some time because a lot of them tend to follow the same formula. The last drama I watched was a historical period piece called Jang Ok Jung (2013). I enjoyed it. I think you will, too. Oh, and I also recommend Chuno. It has my favorite Korean actor, Oh Ji Ho, in it. He even placed #1 (courtesy of his fanbase – me included) in Abagond’s The Ten Most Gorgeous Men In The World poll!

    Like


  234. @ Pumpkin:

    Filipina women and white men, what do you think?

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VswBGstT0)

    Ugh, I cringed watching that video. The white interviewer is Travis Kraft. He’s a minor celebrity in the Philippines. I really hate those Filipina girls’ comments about white guys. It’s gag inducing. I’ve read comments about this Travis Kraft fellow saying he’s so hot, and I don’t think he’s good looking facial-wise. I think he has beady eyes, and his flared nostrils bother me for some reason. However, in his younger years, he was a model, and I will admit he had a physique I liked. Quite muscular. (And, no, Kiwi, it’s not because he’s white.) I guess the correct term is butterface.

    Anyway, I learned his something interesting about this guy years ago. He was raised by his adoptive mother who was a Filipina. Recently, he also married a Filipina who he had been dating for years. His wife even remarked, “Ours is an unlikely romance. It was unexpected. I never imagined a good-looking guy would fall for me.” Please note, Travis Kraft told his future wife that “it was love at first sight for him and that it was her long hair that first got his attention”. Uh, huh.

    Like


  235. Omg, I received a message on Facebook today. The person who sent me a message was someone I hadn’t seen since high school. Please allow me to explain. I don’t know if some of you may recall, but I grew up in a predominantly white area. There were barely any POC around until I entered high school when the dynamics changed. When I was in high school, I was asked out quite frequently by white guys, and there was this one white guy in particular who stood out. He was so annoying! Even when I said I wasn’t interested, he took my “no” as in “no, not now, maybe later.” In fact, I was seeing my Filipino boyfriend at the time. Well, this annoying, white guy would try to flatter me. How? He would say pretty much every fricking stereotype about Asians under the sun! He more or less bothered me from the tenth grade until the twelfth grade asking for a date. He was quite creepy actually. Clearly, I wasn’t interested, but that didn’t stop him. Thank god, he left me alone, BUT only after some other Asian girl agreed to go out with him.

    Okay, now going back to Facebook. I received this message from some person I didn’t know. He seemed to know me because his message read that I could never forget someone like him. It was the same guy from high school! I looked through his Facebook friends’ list and he found me through a mutual friend of my cousin’s! I didn’t even use my real name yet he found me! I quickly perused through his Facebook profile and I learned he married a Chinese-Canadian woman and had three children with her. And get this, he posted up pictures of his Choy Li Fut Kung Fu martial arts, Chinese-characters and dragon tattoos, Chinese furnishings, Chinese dance troupes, inlaws, etc. I was not shocked this guy was an Asiaphile. It seems this leopard hasn’t changed his spots. Anyway, no, worries. I remembered how creepy he was back then, and I blocked him asap. What a relief.

    Like


  236. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    I learned he married a Chinese-Canadian woman and had three children with her. And get this, he posted up pictures of his Choy Li Fut Kung Fu martial arts, Chinese-characters and dragon tattoos, Chinese furnishings, Chinese dance troupes, inlaws, etc. I was not shocked this guy was an Asiaphile.

    Please, please, please, I hope none of them are boys! My worst nightmare would be to wake up as an Asian male with a white father.

    Well, then your worst nightmare came true. He has one son (the oldest) and two little girls. Anyway, I also remember the weird vibe this man gave me when I went to school with him. And it makes me shudder he found someone to marry and have kids with. This guy was desperate even then in a sense that he put a lot of effort in trying to get your attention. I would see him in the hallways practically at every turn and the look he gave me seemed to bore into my very soul. As I said, quite creepy.

    Like


  237. Since I talked about reading a message from a former schoolmate on Facebook, I happened upon another old friend’s profile page. I befriended him when he was new to the school, and, well, since he was Filipino like me, we tend to stick together. Anyway, a couple of these white guys kept picking on him for whatever reason. He held his emotions in until one time, he was so fed up with being harassed, he challenged the biggest white guy to a fight after school. Mind you, my schoolmate was 5’5″ and the white guy was around 6′ tall. I remember all the white kids were saying that the Filipino guy was stupid to want to fight the white guy. And I voiced my concern to my schoolmate. He told me not to worry, but I was. It’s not that I didn’t think he was capable of defending himself, but the white guy he challenged had a reputation of beating up people badly and he had his friends to back him up.

    Well, a score of white people came to the after school fight and they remarked that this would be a short fight. The white guy was too overconfident, but my friend made short work of him. You see, my friend knew Sikaran (a Filipino martial arts which involves a lot of kicking) and he front kicked the white guy directly in the face and he gave him a broken nose. The white guy was stunned his nose was bleeding, the coward even told his friends to get a hold of my friend. LOL! And I saw his friends shake their heads. Hahahaha! From then on, no one picked on my friend anymore. Oh, Kiwi! You would’ve loved, LOVED to have seen that! And, so, my friend and I lost touch after high school, but when I found him on Facebook, I sent him a message to friend him and he accepted! Ahh, what great memories. 😎

    Like


  238. *Sorry, kiwi, I meant my friend challenged the biggest white guy in the small group of white guys who harassed him. The biggest white guy in school was 6’5″.

    Like


  239. Not sure where this should go but there is a go funding page for the policeman who shot Michael Brown. http://pando.com/2014/08/21/145k-and-counting-racists-rush-to-support-gofundme-campaign-for-cop-who-shot-michael-brown/
    Read the comments that the supporters have been leaving.

    Like


  240. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    Sadly, in spite of your story, Asian American children have the highest bullying rate of any race in the country. Last time I checked, the rate for white kids is around 20-30% while the rate for Asian kids is close to 60%.

    Because we’re stereotyped as model minorities, people think we’re nerdy, quiet, submissive, and weak pushovers. And that has real life consequences. Asian Americans have abnormally high levels of psychological disorders, especially among those who live in white majority neighborhoods. Asian youth also have the lowest ratings for self-esteem of any race in the country and commit suicide at disproportionately high rates.

    But of course, we’re not allowed to complain because Asians don’t experience racism. *sarcasm*

    Yes, I do recall the percentage of Asian-American children is very high compared to other groups. As you mentioned, Asian-American kids are bullied because of those stereotypes. Some non-Asians think they can just go around and fcuk with us, and that’s why, Kiwi, I was so proud of my friend for bringing down one of the white guys harassing him. You don’t see too many Asians stick up for themselves.

    When you were small, did Asian boys get picked on more than Asian girls or was there no difference? Also, did Asian girls who dated white boys experience less discrimination or did their status remain unchanged?

    Do you mean when I was a young child? As I’ve already stated, I grew up in an area where the majority was white people. Of the handful of Asians in my elementary school, there was an equal number of Asian boys to Asian girls. I do recall the Asian boys being picked on, but it usually had to do with something sports related especially indoor ball hockey. It’s a Canadian thing.

    Anyway, the Asian boys were usually picked last on the team and the white players would get visibly upset if one or more of the Asian boys ended up on their team. They would be verbally abusive and say stuff such as, “Get the ball, stupid!” or “Open your eyes” or “God, Asians suck!” Sometimes, the Asian boys would get a shove or trip here and there. Well, the Asian boys didn’t retaliate or anything. They just suffered in silence.

    As for me, I experienced the eye pulling gestures and racial taunts. As you probably know, I had contemplated eyelid surgery at one point, but thanks to my mother’s influence, I ignored my tormentors.

    Now the Asian girls (the ones I knew) who dated white boys, their status remained unchanged, that is, for the time being. From what I observed, the white friends of the Asian girl/White boy couple thought of them as merely going through a passing phase. It wasn’t serious, or so they thought. They tended to alienate the Asian girls.

    However, the longer the Asian girls stayed in relationships with white guys, they were eventually included in parties/functions and such where other Asians were excluded. This always gave me the side eye because while the white people seemed to warm up to these Asian girls, I have witnessed these same people talk smack behind their back.

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  241. Oopsie, Kiwi, my comment to you began with, “Yes, I do recall….”

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  242. @Anne, why don’t you share that on the Michael Brown thread. It might get lost here.

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  243. @Kiwi,

    You discuss a lot about the prevalence of negative Asian American male stereotypes, about how white men often take the attitude that they “own” Asian women and about some of the motivations of many Asian women who seek, date and perhaps marry white men. You also discuss about the implication for Asian American men and their relationships with whites and blacks.

    But have you ever analyzed how this phenomenon developed in a historical context. It was NOT this way before and it all didn’t just develop overnight. And it didn’t develop necessarily from attitudes that Asians brought to the USA with them when they originally came (but I do think it does come partly from that.)

    I know you are too young to “remember” when this White male – Asian female thing started, but did you ever study how it developed? Did you study how race relations, dating and marriage for Asian American men has evolved?

    It is one thing to notice a phenomenon (which is the important first step), but we also should understand how we got there. I have been doing my own speculation about that, but we have to look at what happened in the 19th and 20th centuries.

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  244. Wondering if anyone is interested in a guest post about “Ugly Chinese Tourist”? I collected some stuff on this about 6 months ago, but so much more has happened since then.

    Basically, Mainland Chinese are now leading the international tourist market and have superseded “Ugly American” as the “force” that needs to be dealt with.

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  245. @ jefe:

    Wondering if anyone is interested in a guest post about “Ugly Chinese Tourist”? I collected some stuff on this about 6 months ago, but so much more has happened since then.

    Basically, Mainland Chinese are now leading the international tourist market and have superseded “Ugly American” as the “force” that needs to be dealt with.

    Ah, is this the one with Chinese mainlanders going abroad and showing their bad manners such as urinating in public, spitting, and openly farting?

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  246. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    This always gave me the side eye because while the white people seemed to warm up to these Asian girls, I have witnessed these same people talk smack behind their back.

    I’ve had similar things happen to me. I remember one incident where I was in the elevator with a white guy and his Asian girlfriend. They were both polite towards me and my mom. But later that day, I found myself in the elevator again with the same white guy and some other white guys. He said something about me to the other white guys that I think was intended as a joke, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I won’t reveal what he said, as it’s too personal, but I highly doubt he would have said it if I were white.

    I’m not surprised. Actions speak louder than words.

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  247. @Leigh204,

    That is part of it (also defacing public property or historical relics, pushing people out of line, not following rules, yelling, screamingetc.), but also recognizing that it is a global force that needs to be reckoned with and catered to (ie, providing the service that they expect).

    They have usurped the ugly American.

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  248. @ Kiwi:

    If I recall, you mentioned you lived in CA, correct? You said you see an awful lot of Asian women with white men. Where I’m from, I’ll see some AW/WM here and there. However, most of the Asian-Canadian women here are dating/marrying other Asian-Canadian men.

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  249. @Leigh:

    I find the same thing here in Toronto.

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  250. @ Herneith:

    @Leigh:

    I find the same thing here in Toronto.

    Girrrrl, how’re you? 😀 Did you attend Caribana? My cousin wanted me to go visit T dot O dot, but I’ve been so busy with work. Maybe next year, eh?

    Anyway, regarding the AW/WM couples, I just don’t find them as prevalent. It’s not that I’m not seeing them, it’s just not as much imho.

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  251. @ Kiwi:

    Believe it or not, even though I live in a place where the white majority dominate, the Asian women here are mostly STILL with Asian men. However, that could very well change. Time will tell.

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  252. @Kiwi,

    Unfortunately, I do not have a time machine.

    You do not need a time machine. You can study it, learn what is recorded about it, talk to people about it, etc.

    For example, I do have some theories based on what I have read and known.

    Asian men used to outnumber Asian women about 10 to 1. That meant that most would never have a wife, at least one in the USA. Those who had no wife would have to visit prostitutes, or form relationships with whites, blacks (or sometimes Native Americans, Mexicans, etc.).

    The Chinese Exclusion Act was repealed in 1943 (others followed suit, eg., the Philippines and India in 1946, etc.). But that didn’t bring many women over as the quotas were all exceedingly small. If a man wanted an Asian wife, he often had to go to Asia to get one.

    THAT was not fixed until the 1965 act which came into effect in 1968.

    ex-GI Asian Americans could go to Asia and bring back a wife not subject to the small quotas under the War Brides Act. Initially, the war brides act could not contradict the anti-miscegenation laws. But then white men pushed to have the War Brides Act amended so that THEY could bring back Asian wives.

    My point is, the 20th century wars in Asia created the mindset that white men were entitled to Asian women. Once they asked for it, they got it. Asian men had been asking for it for 65 years and it got nowhere. This led to the idea that white men are entitled to Asian women, but somehow, Asian men are not (they are not entitled to women period).

    Now, we have to look at the other side of the coin. Why do so many Asian women want nothing to do with Asian men and went straight to the arms of white men? Some of it I can explain. Before the 1960s, many of the Asian women in the USA married men in arranged marriages. The racial imbalance was so bad that any Asian American woman was quickly matched to an Asian man. Those Asian American men who had no wife in the USA had one sent to them from Asia. In the early years before the men had families in the USA, many came as picture brides. Later on, parents forced their sons to marry a woman they picked from Asia.

    Asian American women grew up in families where their mothers were “forced” to marry their fathers. They want nothing of that, and interpret (perhaps wrongly) that marrying an Asian man will lead to the same kind of situation. Marrying a white man will free them from that burden.

    Of course, much of it comes from stereotypes. There is so much Asian male bashing in the USA that no one can be immune from its effects. But once white men came back from the wars in Asia and brought back Asian wives (or at least memories of their “ex-girlfriends” in Asia),. they brought the bashing back with them, and expanded on the stereotypes already present in the USA.

    Still that doesn’t explain everything. I have seen new female immigrants bash Asian men within a few years after arriving, esp. those from brain drain families. I don’t get why so many 1st generation Asian women also have so many negative ideas about Asian men.

    I have to tell you a personal story some time.

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  253. Are you saying that the American movies and television watched in Asia bashed Asian men or glorified white men? Or do they glorify AW/WM relationships? What makes white men better husbands?

    Does that explain why immigrant Korean women date white men or turn into Asian male bashers?

    But, of the refugee immigrants and the sweatshop immigrants and small business store owner immigrants, it seems that less go for white men (it takes at least 1-2 more generations). But brain drain ones often go straight to white men.

    You say that you suspect things, but I really want to know where it came from. I have met Taiwanese women enter the USA just before university, and they are already seriously basing Asian men by the time they are sophomores.

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  254. @kiwi & pumpkin,

    Sorry to but into your conversation but on the topic of white men marrying Asian women, have you considered that maybe the self hatred is more on the white man’ send? What I mean by that is couldn’t it be possible that the man is dating outside ethnic group because he does not feel comfortable in it? Also, maybe the man is focused on Asian women because he sees them as more approachable than other groups due to the stereotype of the model minority.

    You probably already discussed it. But I just wanted to ask.

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  255. @Leigh:

    No I didn’t, I was in New Orleans at the time. However, I used to live up the road so to speak from where part of the parade passed through. Sometimes I went, sometimes I don’t. I haven’t been in a couple of years.

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  256. Economic status does not explain it because Asian men are the highest earning demographic in the country.

    Hook me up Kiwi!

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  257. @ Pumpkin

    This is not a dating service. Well, not yet 😉

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  258. @kiwi,

    True. I was thinking more of the nerd who thinks he can’t get the popular cheerleader type so he goes for the stereotypical quiet Asian girl. But your point would still stand in that case.

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  259. @Kiwi,

    Ironically, no one wants Asian men’s genes

    I told you I remember hearing immigrant Taiwanese females describe Taiwanese males as “ugly” or “半男半女” (emasculating term), when I was looking at many of them as tall, handsome, smart, athletic, etc. I didn’t get the fascination with those dorky white men.

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  260. But actually, they can only say that they do not want their children to have an Asian man’s genes. Unless their father is white is white, it is too late for them.

    Remember when Lucy Liu’s character in Charlie’s Angels was redone so that she had a white father?

    I also wonder about how those 2% of African-American men feel when their Y-DNA haplogroup points to recent Chinese ancestry.

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  261. @Kiwi,

    When I feel up to it, I will share a personal cringetastic story, but I wanted to ask you something else. Did you ever take any Asian American studies courses? Or did you find them irrelevant to your personal situation?

    I mentioned I did take one in university, and I did my report on the Chinese who settled in Mississippi. But other classmates did it on the AW / WM dating situation. You seem very interested in this, but most of what you glean from observation in your community and school campus. Have you read any dedicated research on the topic? Maybe you might be interested in doing some direct research yourself. I would like to see you go and do it and see what you find.

    Most white families probably wouldn’t bat an eye if their son married an Asian woman

    I dunno. I suspect half the white families out there would still not be too thrilled to see half Asian grandkids or an Asian daughter-in-law.. We don’t need most white families to accept it in order for 50% of Asian American women to date / marry white guys if white guys outnumber Asian women 10 to 1.

    It may be interesting to contemplate about 2 white grandparents — would they really feel inclined to treat their half-Asian grandkids very differently if they were their son’s kids vs. their daughter’s kids?

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  262. @Kiwi,
    So at least some of the Asian brain drain kids who had no opportunity to learn about Asian American history or social studies in High School decided to do it at university.

    I hope that you still have a chance to do it some time.I bet you would be leagues ahead of your classmates if you do.But at the same time, it will give you a chance to research a particular topic that you are interested and learn what the classmates find out too.

    I also wanted a new perspective so I took the next most important thing, for America’s situation and especially California’s: Chicano studies.

    Interesting that you call this a “new perspective” considering that you are in California. This stuff should have been at least introduced in elementary and high school.

    Maybe you will have a change to take a black studies / African-American history class too, and compare what you learn in that vs. what you learned in primary/secondary school.

    Since the white son’s children will carry on the family name, not the white daughter’s, obviously the grandparents would have a greater emotional investment in their son’s children.

    then they should be much more concerned who the son marries and care less about the daughter’s.

    I do think this perspective is possibly more important regarding Asian parents.

    I’ve met some that are basically Asians with white privilege, in appearance and name.

    Do you mean the daughter-in-law or the grandkids?

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  263. If you feel they have white appearance, white name, white privilege, and presumably white identity, why do you still call them “Asian people”?

    You know, it is not easy for 1/2 white people to pass as “white” in front of white people. I think nearly all white people will detect that they (at least 98% of them) are not all white, if white at all.

    I had this discussion many times with hundreds of Eurasians / Hapas. In nearly every case, Asians will notice that they are part European or even assume they are not Asian – the idea that they are part Asian is sometimes an afterthought. But white people usually notice that they have Asian or some non-white ancestry first, and often do not think they are white at all. The idea that they might be part white might hit them only as an afterthought.

    Now, if THEY have kids with white people, that is a different story.

    e.g.,
    Angela Warnick Buchdahl (first Korean born (Eurasian) rabbi)
    She married a white guy herself.
    (http://iamkoream.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/F-Rabbi-1211-NuclearFamily.jpg)

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  264. @ Kiwi

    What I have realized is that since Asians in general are viewed as invisible in America’s racial politics, and if East Asians feel invisible already, then South Asians must feel even more so.

    Wow.
    One of the very few who’ve take the time the time to entertain that thought.

    I think only you, Jefe and Leigh appear to have given that “possibility” the time of day…

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  265. But come to think of it, Mstoogood and Mary Burrell “got it” right away, too.

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  266. @Jefe

    Now, if THEY have kids with white people, that is a different story.

    By that stage, 1/4 or even 1/8 East Asian, they are white people with a touch of the “exotic”. It’s a je ne sais quoi that is more than okay (what I’ve noticd in Europe, at least) It adds mystique to the men (Ian Duncan Smith, for example, 1/8 Japanese) and a hard to pin-down sexiness to women.(for instance, Kate Bekinsale, 1/8 Burmese).

    i’ve noticed that their Asian-ness is “always” brought up even though these people function as whites. By “always” I don’t mean every time, but in ways I wouldn’t have expected. Such as “she/he’s X part this, y’know” as if it’s “good to know” because that ought to change how they are viewed or treated, i.e., not real whites, or something, I don’t know.

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  267. Kiwi said:

    …The type of white men that Asian women date tend not to be the jock who played on the football team and got the blonde cheerleader. These men are usually low status among whites but Asian women are more than happy to gobble up the rejects because they’re white.

    What I find most ironic is that many of the white men Asian women date perfectly match the description Asian women give of Asian men for not dating them. (eg: skinny, nerdy, ugly, feminine, quiet, shy, etc.)

    lol! I’d noticed that, over and over too, but thought I shouldn’t say anything.
    That was the society I grew up in. It was not “polite” to question the choices of white men.

    How it was couched, at the time, was that these Asian woman/white man relationships were “genuine”, because they were obviously based on intellect and inner qualities — not base and sexual criteria like what was going on between the other Romeo and Juliets of race –black men and white women. Therefore looks, for white men, weren’t the main thing.
    They were “above” that.*
    But, if the criterion were looks only, then, there are so many handsome East Asian men who ALSO had intellectual and inner qualities, so how come they didn’t seem to get a a look-in?

    For a longest while, I don’t think it was even acceptable to question the desirability of white men.
    These East Asian women didn’t, after all.

    It’s only recent to even use the words “entitled, white privilege” in that context.

    ( * later I likened it to the “Ari Onassis Syndrome”.
    Ari Onassis was short and ugly, but got the women because he didn’t look short and ugly to women when he stood on his money )

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  268. correction:”… if the the criterion was looks only, “

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  269. That’s the way it was set up, pumpkin.
    (It feels kind of not-right typing that name btw, lol — it’s like addressing you as “sweetheart” or “darling”…!)

    There was no rumour as far as those practices and perceptions went.
    It was a common colonial “taboo”.

    The nasty and well-known stereotype was/is that any white woman who “debased” herself thus with a black man (read:Brute) did so for purely animalistic/sexual/ reasons, something based on the lusts of The Body rather than aspirations of mind or spirit.
    A “decent” white woman didn’t do that sort of thing with a black man, unless she was Fallen, had degenerate tastes, etc.

    For the white man, the contrasting beliefs was that it was understandable that a white man would go the way of the Asian woman, because at least Asian WOMEN had Culture, Refinement and were ALL reputedly Very Smart.
    Nothing degraded there.
    Therefore, those features formed the basis of a “civilized” breed of attraction for a white man because Asian WOMEN (particularly East and Southeast Asian women) possessed an additional, not-vulgar prettiness and femininity, too.

    What’s more, if the Asian woman was chosen for her sexual allure, that was because she had also honed the Sexual Arts, and was irresistible for it.
    (I am thinking of stereotypes about East and South East Asians primarily, although the supposely exotic, erotic feminine — the woman of the Kama Sutra — is strongly South Asian.)

    All standard and offensive stereotypes.

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  270. Bulanik,
    So, a follow up question to your comments, how do Asian women view themselves relative to white women in terms of intelligence, beauty, class, etc? Based on what you have seen…. I would imagine that there is some confusion if on one hand the stereotype that you described is believed yet at the same time the social hierarchy placing white women on top is also followed. Or am I reading too much into this?

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  271. @ Peanut / Pumpkin,

    You had African-American studies courses offered in High School? If so, you are one of the lucky ones.

    As you can see from this blog, we all need to take African-American / black studies, Asian American studies, Native American studies and Chicano studies courses. We might need to take Jewish American and Arab American studies courses too. Few Americans really learn about the background of their own people.

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  272. @ All

    Open question for the other regulars: why do you post here?

    My main reason for posting here is because I absolutely love Abagond’s writing. If he wrote a book I’d snap it up in an instant.

    My favourite posts are the ones where he talks about books, films, history etc. The posts which unfortunately don’t attract the most traffic!

    @ Abagond

    Many of your views absolutely infuriate me but I can’t stop coming back here because you write so damn well.

    Anyway, I’m curious whether any of of the other regulars come this board for that reason too, or whether they’re mainly here to debate racism.

    I’m not asking this in a negative sense, I’m genuinely curious because I think I’m the odd one out.

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  273. @Kiwi,

    The half white, half Asian people I was referring to are unmistakably white. You would not know they are Asian unless they told you or their Asian mothers picked them up at school.

    then I am very confused by your meaning.

    First you call them “Asians” (albeit with white privilege, white in appearance and name). Then you call them “unmistakeably white”. So, are they white or Asian? Or do you have a different category for them? Is there any allowance for how they might self-identify?

    Since the Asian American female / white male families did not really start taking off until after 1970, when I was growing up the kids who had Asian mothers and non-Asian fathers were generally born before this and had war bride mothers and military or ex-military fathers. There were a few in each year where I went to school (as I lived near military bases or near ex-military families).
    Most of those kids did not exactly look fully white, some were even “unmistakenly Asian” but nearly all of them were “white” in the minds of my classmates. Not only did they have “white” names, but they were socially aligned with white people.

    When I was in High School, I tried to understand why that happened. I was constantly bullied for being the “ch1nk”, but they seemed to escape all of that, even invited to socialize with the other white kids. Somehow the other kids just didn’t think of their Asian ancestry (ie, ignored it). So, I concluded that being accepted as white meant that one had to project a “white” image. I later concluded that families tend to interact with the greater community more on the social identity of the father. Since their war bride mothers were physically separated from their families and did not interact much with the local Asian communities, their children would not get much contact either. I found that most of those kids did not feel any attachment to the Asian American communities.

    That would be different for Asian women whose families are nearby or accessible.

    Later on, I felt a complete seesaw / tug-of-war with both whites and Asians. Asian Americans would tell me that all I had to do was change my name and not tell anyone my background and I probably pass as something else – at least escape being typecast as an Asian. The people telling me this often experienced scant serious racism growing up and simply scoffed at the racist violence I grew up with. As if one can simply forget who and what they are.

    Then I would white people do something else. In the workplace I had a slew of “ch1ng ch0ng”, “oriental” stuff hurled at me daily. I saw the bamboo ceiling phenomenon erecting itself. Right after the white people specifically targetted me and directed all those oriental remarks and comments to me, they would then say, “but, you don’t identify with any of that, do you? You see yourself as a “regular” American”. That kind of treatment pisses me off to the hilt.
    When they laid off workers, they laid off the black workers and me and kept the white staff (except for one gay / HIV+ white guy). When they purged workers, it was obvious who they targetted.

    My point:
    Now I am the first person to express an opinion about the omission of the Asian American experience from nation’s historical narrative. I will be the first to rally about official racist treatment from the government, from media denigration (incl. the Asian male bashing phenomenon). to decry the Model Minority and Perpetual Foreigner stereotypes, to condemn the marginalization in the corporate and political arena. But sometimes you seem to have a beef about those people who have an Asian parent but who (at least in your eyes) are “passing” as white. You seesaw back and forth whether you label them as Asian or white.

    The reason why this is important is your insistence in other posts about how Asians (unlike Jews) cannot be white. But then you say, well, if they can pass as white, have a white sounding name, act white, etc. then they are white (even though you also label them as Asians). It seems like a contradictory statement.

    You also state that Asian women who marry white men gain white privilege and live as white women. It is as if an Asian woman marries a white man, then presto, she becomes white as well as her kids. So can Asians become white, or can they not?

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  274. @ Anne

    So, a follow up question to your comments, how do Asian women view themselves relative to white women in terms of intelligence, beauty, class, etc? Based on what you have seen…. I would imagine that there is some confusion if on one hand the stereotype that you described is believed yet at the same time the social hierarchy placing white women on top is also followed. Or am I reading too much into this?

    I don’t think there is a “confusion” as such.

    Doesn’t there have to be Normal People for the Exotic Other to exist?.
    This hierarchy you mention is the outgrowth of domination and subjugation:
    unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationships resulting from Empire.
    I don’t feel that is confusion, but more like “layers”.

    Aren’t Exotic Asians fetished because the stereotypes created by white men portray these women as being more passive, knowing their place as well as how to pamper a man, etc., etc.? Accordingly, to white man under the sway of this fetish, many white women have somehow “lost” their femininity, have become too liberated, etc. Perhaps this makes them threatening — or too equal to be “attractive”.

    Exotic Asian women are not actually “equal” to white women, not racially at least, but they do have qualities that make them desirable.

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  275. @Kiwi,

    Basically, it all comes down to appearance. If you look white, you will be accepted as a white person.

    OK, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you.

    I think it is more like “if you can successfully project a white image, then you can be accepted as a white person, at least sometimes”. Having a phenotype which is subjectively evaluated as closer to what the evaluator delineates as “white” may make it easier, everything else being equal, but that is certainly not the only way or necessarily even the main way in which a person gets racialized.

    That is the mechanism by which people succeed in passing, or pass for some things, not for others. I think it is even possible for an Asian person or black person to “pass” as white if they follow all the rules of the White Club yet have a Jewish person “fail:

    If you have seen the Hasidic Jews and some of the orthodox ones in NY, they will not be able to pass as “white”. A Sikh who adjusts his appearance and behavior to simulate a white person might be able to pass as one; but put on his turban and readjust his behavior and he will not. I also believe it is possible for a “full” Asian person to project a white image to the extent that the evaluator might even mistake him for a “white” person, at least for social purposes (for which purposes race represents anyhow). (This is my opinion; you may disagree.)

    “White Appearance”, given its subjective nature, could also change at any time. This second, you might evaluate someone as “white”; 5 mins. later he will be evaluated as non-white.

    By your definition, you would find it reasonable to place twins sharing the same parents into separate racial categories based on your subjective interpretation of their “appearance”.

    I guess that you would it would be easy to change one’s racial classification by making slight adjustments to appearance, name and behavior. Today can be Latino Carlos Rodriguez, tomorrow white Chuck Rodgers, the next day be Chen Luo-jin and assume a different persona and then a different race.

    Some people can do that without too much problem. I could see how Lou Diamond Phillips could play a white person, Latino, Native American and Asian without shocking anyone’s senses. Kirk Acevedo has a Puerto Rican father and ethnic Chinese mother, meaning that neither of his parents is likely racialized as white. He plays a Latino about half the time, but often he plays a straight up white guy (such as “Carver” in “Dawn of the Planet of the Apes”), but has not yet to date played the role of an Asian. So are you saying that although neither of his parents is white, he is, because that is how he is being interpreted by his evaluators (ie, racialized) considering the roles he is being offered?

    I suspect you think I am being ridiculous, but all I ask you to do is contemplate that there are more than one way in which persons get racialized, and it might change depending on the circumstances, environment, or the company. Subjective interpretation of appearance is only one way, and might not even be the main way. If anything, the person’s actual ethnic background, education and upbringing, language and religion might be just as important factors as well as how they self-identity in particular environments.

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  276. @Bulanik,

    You say that persons who are 1/8 or even 1/4 non-white are still “white” with a touch of exotic.

    That was not true at all 1-2 generations ago. Such a person would not be allowed to marry a white person before 1967:
    (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Racial_Integrity_Act_of_1924)

    Such a person still would have been imprisoned in the Concentration camps (like others who were 1/4 Japanese), they would have been refused entry into the USA despite having citizenship in an unrestricted country (eg, Canada, UK). Many with Chinese ancestry pretended to be Mexican just to enter the USA.

    The Amerasian children born to Americans in Asia after WWII were not initially allowed to enter the USA for racial reasons.

    At what point did these people become “white”? Has the definition of “white” already shifted to include all these people. Kiwi suggests that nowadays persons with 50%, or even more Asian ancestry can now be classified as “white”. If there has been such “progress” in 40-50 years, it looks like Asians in the USA may be “white” sooner than we think.

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  277. @ Jefe

    Such a person still would have been imprisoned in the Concentration camps (like others who were 1/4 Japanese), they would have been refused entry into the USA despite having citizenship in an unrestricted country (eg, Canada, UK). Many with Chinese ancestry pretended to be Mexican just to enter the USA.

    The Amerasian children born to Americans in Asia after WWII were not initially allowed to enter the USA for racial reasons.

    Of course, yes: I see what mean. You’re absolutely right.

    However, I wasn’t referring to the US. I don’t always do!
    I specifically referred to Europe, and gave 2 (British) examples.
    I believe people of this kind of mixture (one eight or one quartre Asian) “function” as white, but their “foreigness” becomes something which is good to know in ways which I thought meant they were nonetheless racialized (i.e. not white).
    We’ve touched on this before, but Cliff Richard comes to mind.
    He seems white, Normal — so to speak — but there was always that whiff of something “racial” about him, something “foreign” that would surface once in a while.

    I can think of 2 examples of how this could manifest in social situations:
    1. a man I once worked with who seemed “white”, but for some reason did really seem white. I never concerned myself with this, personally (coming from a multi-racial background myself) but the black and white people I worked with would say “he’s probably part-black or something”, especially after he was known to have had romances with at least one black woman.
    Later, he mentioned that he was 1/4 Chinese, and after he did it was somehow obvious that was. At that point, he was at pains — at pains — to point out how “different” to black people he was, as though he wanted to distance himself from blackness and them.

    2. one of my friends, herself the child of a Japanese mother and a white English father, remained friends with an ex-b0yfriend, and I’d occasionally bump into him when he visited her. I didn’t know what to make of him…
    After I time, it would grate on me that he’d usually find a way to talk about black people whenever I was present — something my friend also noticed and disliked — as “black people” was never a subject in his normal conversations with her at all. (Her brother had married a mixed-race black woman and she had seen this same thing in that situation, too…)
    My friend’s ex knew right away that I was “mixed” but he wanted to always to turn the conversation to black people as “they” and “them” whenever he saw me.
    Then one day my friend said: “You realize X is part Indian as well, don’t you?” I said “Really? I wondered, but wasn’t sure.”
    She then went on to explain that his paternal grandmother was Indian and his father had kept this a secret, out of shame of some kind and the whole family seemed “infected” by this black Indian in their own bloodline.

    What this seemed to show me was that some mixed white+Asian, although mostly white, weren’t always allowed to be fully white all the time, no matter how much they might have wanted to be.

    Like


  278. @Bulanik,

    thank you for your story.

    My main point wasn’t really the unique situation of the USA (v. the UK, for example) but how much different the 2010s are perceived vs. say, 1940s-1960s.

    It sounds like your anecdotes suggests that modern day UK and USA have been moving in a similar direction. I would say that I would have noticed the same thing in the USA in the 1980s-1990s.

    What Kiwi is suggesting is that the USA has even gone further.

    1/4 Asian people were definitely not white (at least technically) back in the 1940s-1950s Jim Crow era, although they may have been allowed to go to school with white people. Asian roles in movies and TV were played by non-Asian white people.

    By the 1980s, people would likely think they are white with a touch of exotic. Some of them could even play white roles in the media without people thinking of them as being non-white. If it came up, people would know it, and the persons would have to do what you described (ie, think it has a touch of exotic, but such persons still had to be active in establishing white status).

    Kiwi is suggesting something that has taken another quantum leap by the 2010s. To him, 1/4 Asian persons are not even regarded as persons with a “touch of exotic” – they are just simply “white” (and people like Ne-yo are just simply “black”), and there is no need for them to be active in reaffirming their white status or distancing themselves from POC.

    He has moved it 1 1/2 steps forward. According to him, most 1/2 Asians with a white father are now “unmistakeably white” for the most part, and their mothers are socially accepted as “white” even though people may know immediately that they are not of European descent. But even that fact does not prevent them from gaining or enjoying white status. The main thing stopping 1/2 Asians with an Asian father from gaining white status is possibly their Asian sounding surname, which can get blurred too, or even changed to something more acceptable to white people.

    He is suggesting that “perpetual foreigner” does not apply to 1/2 Asians and maybe neither to their Asian mothers if they are married to white men.

    (I am not suggesting that the anecdotal observation is right or wrong. I am just noting what it implies.)

    By this account, it seems like Asians are already,/i> almost “white”. Move this trajectory forward another generation and they will be “white”, at least most of them. Maybe he thinks it is moving towards a Latin American model.

    I do believe that the US govt and US society has a vested interest in keeping Asians viewed as “other” and somehow not white. But Kiwi is suggesting that the trend towards becoming white is already happening and is like an unstoppable force.

    I look at Peru. About 20% of Peruvians have Chinese ancestry, but in general they are not viewed differently from Peruvians without Chinese ancestry. It is just another piece of the mix that made up the modern day population.

    Like


  279. wordynerdygirl said:

    […] Open question for the other regulars: why do you post here? […]

    I don’t know that I qualify as a regular poster, even though I am a daily reader…

    I love this place. Aside from the sheer volume and variety of substantial content that abagond has created and collected, I have found his blog to be a real eye-opener. I was one of those naive souls who believed that the racism problem was indeed substantial diminished until I found this site.

    I find the discussion here enlightening and interesting. The posters are a dynamic bunch of characters. It is far more of a community than most blogs I read.

    Since moving to a rural village that is has no non-white members I don’t get to mix with POC as much as I could when I lived in town. Aside from POC who are members of my family, online is the only place I get to have real discussions with the people directly affected by racism.

    Like


  280. @ bulanik,

    I am mixed (not sure if you are too)…….several generations of mixes, different groups. This discussion everyone is having is interesting to me. The perspective of this issue is different from someone who is mixed than it is from someone who is not. At least it seems that way to me.

    Like


  281. @Anne

    The perspective of this issue is different from someone who is mixed than it is from someone who is not.

    Yes, definitely.

    Like


  282. @Kiwi,

    You said “some”. Sorry that I exaggerated that to mean more than just some. But I got the impression that you thought it was very widespread.

    I do agree that for a few, if they can project a white enough image to a white person, they will likely mistake them for some kind of white (even one with a touch of exotic) rather than someone who is part non-white. Even some of the ones I went to school with, they dated whites, socialized as white, and most of the students didn’t think about them as being something other than white unless you really pressed them (they might say, “Oh yeah, I think I knew that.” and then go on). But, I always felt that, other things being equal (for example, appearance wise), it was generally easier for the guys with white fathers to be integrate into the white circles than the ones with Asian fathers.

    BTW, some Sikhs are fair and might be able to pass as some kind of European if they act white enough. My point was that there are many factors that cause a person to be racialized or not.

    When I went to Australia, I received a slightly dfferent impression of the Asian-whjite kids compared to what I saw in USA. I felt that in the USA, there is much more pressure to be acceptable to white people. Maybe it is the model minority thing operating. In Australia, Asians are the largest non-white people, and they are not used as a wedge between whites and other non-whites. Most white Australians see Asians every day, but not necessarily Aboriginal peoples as much. I got the impression that Eurasian Australians had a lot more opportunity (with less stigma) to mix with Asian Australians. The pressures in the USA are different. There is a lot more pressure from white people in the USA for Asians to dissociate from blacks.

    (If wordynerdygirl was listening, that is an *impression* only. I am not trying to make any bold insight about Australia.)

    Like


  283. A few years ago, I befriended a wonderful commenter on here and I want to wish her a Happy Birthday! You know who you are, love! ❤

    oi58.tinypic.com/2isid6f.jpg

    Like


  284. Oops, somehow the forgot the http part of the link. Let’s try it again.

    Like


  285. This is a representative quote from the link provided by Herneith:

    US data shows eBay’s workforce at 61% white, 24% Asian, 7% black, 5% Hispanic, 1% multi-ethnic, and 1% other. For “tech” jobs at eBay, 55% of employees are Asian and 40% are white, with numbers for both black and Hispanic employees hovering to 2%.

    I *suspect* the management positions are closer 90% white, 5% Asian, Black and Hispanic each less than 1%. I suspect that

    The average educational level of the Asians there are likely higher than the whites.

    I can imagine working there:
    – Senior management – 90% white and male
    – Programs / systems staff – mostly Asian males
    – Hispanics – more “custodial” staff, doing office assistant stuff, printing, buildings and grounds, cafeteria, etc.
    – Blacks – noticeably almost absent.

    Does anyone personally have friends / family working at those places that can vouch for that?

    Like


  286. @Kiwi,

    What the stats aren’t telling us is that they face a ceiling at work, just like other nonwhites, so the management and leadership are much whiter than the hiring numbers would suggest.

    I think the stats are implying that.

    Like


  287. @Kiwi and Jefe:

    If you notice, the article gave a breakdown of their staff by racialization/ethnicity. they did not reveal how many of these racialized people were in management. I suspect that the ‘bamboo’ ceiling can be applied here. If they had a high percentage of racialized people in upper management, they would use that as a promotional and selling point. Notice the dearth of people of African descent in these companies?

    Like


  288. @ Leigh204
    (omg)

    Thank you for the birthday greetings!

    Like


  289. @ Anne, you said:

    I am mixed (not sure if you are too)…….several generations of mixes, different groups. This discussion everyone is having is interesting to me. The perspective of this issue is different from someone who is mixed than it is from someone who is not. At least it seems that way to me.

    I concur 100% with you and Jefe on this
    Pretty much here several generations of different mixes with me, too: it never fails to surprise me how perspective will differ (for that reason alone) from another individual who doesn’t have that kind of background…

    Like


  290. @Bulanik & jefe,
    I have found that I tend to look at everything analytically as if being a referee at a game trying to figure out who is wrong. And yet at the same time I tend to pull away from the argument if it gets too heated because I could be talking about cousins (a few generations removed). I see the fight for a pure identity or pure “race” as something that would only concern people in some distant land and not me. So I tend to disregard racists as crazy and delusional. And in most cases I will admit to pursuing a compromise for the sake of peace and everyone’s benefit instead of fighting for what is right in an absolute sense. So, that may explain why most of posts here are either some form of bad humor or just a brief comment.

    Like


  291. @Kiwi

    The food is prepared by professional chefs who graduated from top culinary schools, so they are not as Hispanic as one would expect.

    How about the dishwashers? The ones who wash and clean the vegetables and clean the kitchen?

    When I worked for a global consulting firm on Park Avenue in New York, there was a very very strong racial stratification system. Asians were in the back office systems area. Blacks and Puerto Ricans in the mailroom. Every single senior manager was white male.

    Like


  292. @Kiwi
    you repeat that interracial couples with east asians and whites almost always have a white man, asian female. You explain this by: whites have control over asians. I totally agree with you, and being white myself this hurts me maybe as hard as it hurts you, because I have great respect for the east asian race.
    But what do you say about the fact that interracial couples between blacks and whites as well as blacks and asians almost always have a black man and a white/asian female? I say blacks have control over whites and asians. This the racial hierarchy in our world today: on top blacks, in the middle whites and on bottom east asians.

    Like


  293. @ Abagond

    There’s a new movie coming out in late October called ‘Dear White People’. Check out this preview article:

    (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20483133_20846400,00.html)

    Like


  294. @Kiwi
    But for the last hundred years interracial couples between black males and white females. The same pattern can be observed in every european country, and there is no slavery history. One can expect that this pattern will persist much longer than the slavery system did.
    Also what have interracial couples between asians and blacks have to do with slavery?
    And if we talk about rape we all know current interracial rape statistics

    Like


  295. @Pumpkin/peanut

    Yeah, where does this “For the last hundred years ….” stuff comes from?

    Like


  296. @Kiwi,

    Prior to WWII, most of the introduction of Asian ancestry into the white and black populations came through Asian males. There simply were not enough Asian females around to mate with whites until the late 60s.

    After the war brides act was extended to include Asian wives, whites could bring any Asian women they wanted to the USA. Non-military Asian men had to face quotas. I think that is a factor why white men think they own Asian women.

    Like


  297. @Pumpkin peanut

    time stamp is wrong, it says sunday, but its still saturday.

    He uses UTC. Sometimes it is Sunday where I am, but the time stamp is Saturday.

    Like


  298. @Pumpkin peanut

    South Pacific

    You know that Frances Nuyen had a Vietnamese Father and French mother. She appeared in the Joy Luck Club 36 years later.

    Juanita Hall was African-American (not Asian) but played Asian roles.

    Like


  299. @Kiwi,

    I still can’t get over how white men passed laws allowing themselves to bring over Asian wives when Asian men were not even allowed by law to marry white women.

    Not just not allowed to marry white women due to the Anti-miscegenation laws, but also not allowed to bring over Asian wives due to the Exclusion act, or severely limited by the draconian quotas post WWII.

    Yet white men received an exception to all of this and brought Asian wives to the USA. You see Asian men were prevented from getting both white and Asian wives, but white men could have either.

    Like


  300. @Pumpkin

    Is it me or do a lot of Native Americans nowadays look kinda white? I was watching a documentary about wounded knee and the Lakota people people interviewed for it in probably the 90s looked a lot lighter than the Native Americans in the past

    Like


  301. I’m really p*ssed off right now. I lent one of my cousins a good deal amount of money on the condition she’d pay me back as soon as she could. She had borrowed money in the past, but she always paid me back promptly. She had lost her job recently and had trouble finding a new one and she cried she had rent and bills to pay. The big softie that I am, I lent her money. Imagine my surprise when I learned she will be going to Hawaii for several weeks! She bought the plane tickets and everything. I let my cousin have it telling her her priorities were messed up. And now, some of my other relatives are taking her side because I’m not as understanding as I should be. Oh, hell no. Now why do I feel like I’ve been played? I know some of you will reading this and think I’m a fool for lending money, but I was raised to help others in need. Anyway, please no criticism. I just needed a place to vent. Okay, end rant.

    Like


  302. There is an unwritten rule about lending money to family or friends. It is nice if they pay you back, but never expect it. Think of it as a gift.

    Like


  303. @ Jefe:

    My cousin profusely thanked me for helping her out and she swore up and down that I would get my money back. Now when she posted a pic of her tickets to Hawaii soon after, how am I supposed to react?

    Like


  304. @peanut Pumpkin

    so then who could asian men marry?

    Most did not. Until the 1940s, and even to some extent to the 1960s, Asian American communities had a lot of aging or old bachelors.

    In places like NY or SF, they could visit brothels, but not so in places like the South or midwest.

    Please watch “Eat a Bowl of Tea” (1989). It takes place in New York in 1948, the year after the Asian war brides act (1947) was passed. You will see a community of 80-90% men that were old bachelors or separated from their wives for many decades. Yet white men got an exception and got to bring their Asian wives to the USA.

    Like


  305. @Leigh,

    Treat it as a lesson learned.

    Like


  306. http://www.amazon.ca/Bury-My-Heart-Wounded-Knee/dp/0805086846

    http://www.amazon.ca/Spirit-Crazy-Horse-Peter-Matthiessen/dp/0140144560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409510939&sr=1-1&keywords=in+the+spirit+of+crazy+horse

    Right now there is a push for a national inquiry into murdered and missing First Nations women here in Canada:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/murdered-aboriginal-women-what-to-know-about-a-national-public-inquiry-1.2748983

    The two books are good starting points to reading about the First Nations people from a historical standpoint. It will give you an idea as to what they have gone through historically. Keep in mind that this is just the tip of the iceberg!

    http://www.amazon.ca/Black-Indians-A-Hidden-Heritage/dp/0689311966

    Like


  307. @ Herneith

    Thank you for recommending those books, especially the Peter Matthiessen one; I haven’t seen that one before.

    @ Pumpkin

    Have to say that what I learned about First Nation women (Canada) came as a surprise at the time. Firstly because when I met them I was pretty young, and thought they were “whites”, though they looked mixed somehow, and second, I’d never encountered any literature written by First Nation or Native American, women before.

    I don’t believe that I understood the profoundly spiritual nature of the culture and “knowing” that was being shown to me at the time.
    Nevertheless, 2 factors seemed about the women in these nations stood out again and again. This was:
    1. the imposition of patrilineal culture on the different peoples by the incoming Europeans, something echoed in online articles, for example:
    …the balance between women and men’s roles typically existed in pre-contact Aboriginal societies, where women and men had different, but complementary roles. Many First Nations were matrilineal, meaning that descent – wealth, power, and inheritance — were passed down through the mother…
    ….although Indigenous women do not share a single culture, they do have a common colonial history. The imposition of patriarchy has transformed Indigenous societies by diminishing Indigenous women’s power, status and material circumstances.

    And, this:
    2. Classing the indigenous women of the Americas into a binary:
    The Virtuous Princess (who helps the European by simultaneously betraying her her own people) and, “The Sqaw”, the sexually deviant, prostitute-like Native woman.
    (http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/home/community-politics/marginalization-of-aboriginal-women.html)

    There are lots of books to choose from; one researcher that writes about this subject from the female PoV is Barbara Alice Mann.

    http://www.amazon.com/Daughters-Mother-Earth-American-Yesterday/dp/0275985628/ref=pd_sim_b_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1REJ8WQFVA5QEJEQYW4R

    Like


  308. It’s like black people r hated all over the world.Black women r also viewed negatively especially I think it has to do with racism and sexism.

    Like


  309. Welll, Pumpkin, thank you and you’re welcome, too.

    Like


  310. @ jefe:

    @Leigh,

    Treat it as a lesson learned.

    Yes, the hard way.

    @ pumpkin:

    @ leigh,

    that isn’t a cousin that i would lend money to again though. But at the end of the day from personal experience, it’s family and forgive and just move on. Now you know that lending money to her isn’t something you can do again and if she asks why tell her because you felt that as a family member it wasn’t right for her to take money that you offered her because you thought she was struggling and then go on a trip to hawaii tell her that hurt you very much and from on if you can’t trust her to be honest about your money, then you’re going to have find other ways to help her get on her feet, but not lending money. if she needs a place to live, maybe offer to set her up with someone or help her find a job, but if this is going to be a habit, just don’t lend money anymore. But don’t let it ruin the family dynamic, forgive it and just do things differently next time.

    i also agree with jefe, as a rule don’t expect money to come back when it’s relatives. So don’t give so much that you know you’ll miss it if it doesn’t come back.

    The money wasn’t really the issue per se because even though my cousin had borrowed money from me in the past, and she paid it back right away, I told her I wasn’t in a rush. I guess I was just surprised and ticked to see her posting her tickets to Hawaii so soon after she sobbed she was short with her rent money and bill payments. I did talk with her again last night and she explained the money for those tickets came from a friend of hers who OWED her money. Again, as I mentioned above, her priorities were messed up. Oh, well. I know better the next time.

    Like


  311. @ Herneith:

    Right now there is a push for a national inquiry into murdered and missing First Nations women here in Canada:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/murdered-aboriginal-women-what-to-know-about-a-national-public-inquiry-1.2748983

    Yes, Herneith. That is very true especially coming from ‘Peg city. Recently, there was a vigil held for a murdered 15 year old Aboriginal girl and for all the missing and murdered Aboriginal women. The poor child’s body was wrapped in a bag and dumped in our local river. My city has the highest Aboriginal population. Here, First Nations people are treated like African-Americans in the States. They’ve been treated like garbage simply because they’re Aboriginals. I have heard from people’s mouths that “a good Indian is a dead Indian”. How horrible is that?

    Like


  312. @ Sharina:

    I remember you said you watched Korean dramas. May I suggest a period drama from the Philippines that was hugely popular a few years ago? It’s a historical fictional story of a princess turned slave who is destined to be warrior queen. Some parts of the story is cheesy, but still very engaging. It’s called Amaya.

    There are subtitles so you don’t have to worry what the characters are saying.

    http://www.viki.com/videos/132004v-amaya-episode-1

    Like


  313. Have you all noticed that the gender disparity for blacks and Asians reversed after 1980?

    You would find more white men married to black women before that. Likewise, you would find more Asian men with white or black women than the reverse (Asian women with white or black men).

    When doing your analysis, maybe it would help to figure out what changed in the 60s-70s that caused it to reverse.

    Like


  314. Kiwi:
    if you really want to understand interracial dating you should start to understand that there are are real biological differences between the races. And you should simply forget the word “racism”. You should also forget the word “stereotype”.
    Consider two populations: one has – ONE AVERAGE – slimmer wrists, smaller hands, less body hair, is build more gracile, is shorter. The other bigger, taller, more sturdy, more body hair. Which one do you think will attract females more?
    Do understand the specific differences you could also google for “neoteny” or “granulation” or “domestication” in anthropological contexts.

    Like


  315. @ Erik Sieven:

    That must explain white mens (especially Irish ones’), small genitals. Are you Irish Erik? Yes there are indeed differences among the races. Being ‘short’ changed, the white man in particular has been pi$$ed off ever since. Hence his striving for supremacy. What you lack for in one thing you can make up for others I guess. Good evening!

    Like


  316. @Hernith

    That’s pretty stupid. I never saw anything important about penis size but then again I’m asexual and the thought of anyone’s genitals disgusts me.

    In any case I always thought white supremacy was the result of fear that blacks would like take all their wealth and privilege and undermine their authority.

    It would discourage blacks through violence/coercion from opposing whites and leave the status quo unperturbed

    Like


  317. @Herneith
    Yes being short changes, but being gracile or sturdy does not change over history. Anyway we talk about the differnces between living populations.
    @ Kiwi
    Well you are of course right, there are cultural aspects one has to observe, too, when discussing racial differences in dating. Especially people use every day heuristics when it comes to dating, the same way we all do reagarding most other things too. When an object of class A has the attribute a with a propabiliy of say 90% people just take it for granted that every object in class A has this attribute. All humans do that when it comes to decisicions they have to do. But the basis is still real biological differences.
    I do not think that differences in interracial dating really changed that much over the time. Especially I do not think that you could compare the situation before the 1960 witn today. Today we have a “liberated market” as partner market, and people can decide along there real preferences. Earlier most people in this world lives in homogenous countries, and those who lived in multiracial societies lived in separated multircial societies. Also love marriage was not not as common as today, but even in western countries some kind of arranged marriage was rather the standard.

    Like


  318. @erik,
    You’re implying that there is a natural physical preference in humans that influences their choice in mates. And while it may be true to the extent that men prefer younger looking, childlike partners, the influence of society on what physical traits are associated with the perception of youth cannot be ignored. For example, the theory of neoteny claims that Asian people have the most childlike features however the beauty industry has a clear bias toward Northern European models or models with similar features. It would be hard to believe that in a society where people are constantly exposed to pictures of one specific set of physical features as the hallmark of beauty that they wouldn’t at some point be influenced by it. Even on a subconscious level, seeing the same “face” over and over will eventually make someone think that “face” is in fact attractive.

    Like


  319. @ Anne

    But what I find most odd about what Erik is saying is that black women, probably than any other “race”, are extremely diverse in appearance and phenotype.

    I doubt if I am alone when I say I have seen every kiind of feature, whether be it of face, skin- or eye-colouring, hair texture, body type, and so on — and all belonging to women who might be considered “black”.

    Erik is just looking for any reason, pseudo-scientific or not, to justify his racism.

    Like


  320. @ Leigh
    @ Herneith

    Thanks to you both for mentioning Canada’s inquiry into murdered and missing First Nations women. It’s not something that reaches the international news.
    Personally, I only started to hear about it when commenters touched on it a few years back.

    Related to that is the disproportionately high rape (and rape-murder) rate for this population of Canada’s women. This high incidence of their rape is historical.
    It’s something tied to the very start of North America’s colonisation, when the likes of Amerigo Vespucci not only targetted the women in these territories for sexual assault, but justified and excuse their rape by him and his men by writing about these women as creatures who had anyway “defiled and prostituted themselves”…

    Contrast that with the way that kind of violence is shown and reported in African or Asian countries. South Africa has a rape “epidemic” and rape in India is a “phenomenon”.

    The way violence of this kind is reported in African or Asian in the international news — if you can get it — puts it in a context seems that kind of puts the violence as culturally sanctioned raw, primitive savagery.
    As if it is different from or WORSE than, rapes elsewhere.

    Also, when words like “epidemic” and “endemic” is used, it pushes the image of disease-like behaviour of the perpetrators in that culture.

    I noticed this on Abagond’s thread about India: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/737/#comment-250898

    Like


  321. typos: “excused”

    correcton: The way violence in the African or Asian contexts is shown in the international news — if you can get it — place that violence as culturally sanctioned raw, primitive savagery.

    Like


  322. A commenter earlier mentioned Pocahontas.

    I am not sure if Abagond has done a post on her, or around her story?

    Like


  323. Earlier most people in this world lives in homogenous countries

    Earlier means pre-1960?

    Like


  324. @ jefe, yes I would say so. Of course there have been historical mixes (indoeuropeans invasion of europe) but concerning the continetal faces we know today I would say up to 1960 the vast majority of people worldwide lived in homgenous countries. Of course the amercis have been an exception. But the americas had a quite small share of the world population and in the americas most societies were separated along racial lines as I said above.
    @Bulanik actually I think racial differences in dating have more to do with racial preferences of women than racial differences of men. As Abagond has stated men tend to be “dogs” which means they do not distinguish that much betweenthe races. Women distinguish much more. Thats why you see so extremely few couples with black women or white women and east asian men, and on the other side so extremly many couples with men witn westafrican ancestry and white women (a little less withe ast asian women)

    Like


  325. @ Kiwi:

    I’m sure you’ll appreciate this…or not. lol! Here’s a comedic sketch turn-around that sounds so familiar to me.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAQP7OJ9ls#t=51)

    Like


  326. The cynic in me says that Asian women who exclusively seek white men see them as nothing more than secure meal tickets and a fast-tracked admission into the Great White American/Western European Collective™. But I digress…

    Decades ago, Asian men used to be stereotyped as sexual aggressors and rapists of white women, just like how black men are seen today. People from that time are still alive, so does biology really explain why Asian men are seen as feminine nerds today? Can human evolution occur in less than one generation, with one billion men suddenly going from virile, sexual predators to asexual weaklings in a lifetime?

    Chalk it up to a cultural shift in which Americans somehow saw Asian men as no longer threatening, at least in a sexual context. Could it have been the average Asian’s increased focus on scholastics in preparation for STEM industry work, as opposed to the fields, fishing ships and railroads? How did we get from THERE to HERE?

    There’s also this link people associate between criminality and “aggressive” sexuality – the more criminally-inclined you appear, the more promiscuous and deviant people assume you to be. Conversely, the more educated you appear, the fainter that connection appears until, as a scholarly-looking person, that connection disappears from view. Til this day, there’s still a strong link people have black criminals and the “Mandingo” persona, whereas the average black college professor is rarely looked on as a voracious violator of white purity and virtue.

    @ pumpkin

    After a sustained psycho-sexual assault the likes of such, the grievously wounded black male psyche sees the white woman as the ultimate trophy, the grand “F**K YOU!” to a white society that treated black women like broodmares and sex toys while placing white women on a pedestal, perched out of reach of the black man yet held up as the golden standard of beauty and desirability, like a cake behind glass.

    Interesting way of looking at it. But I can’t help but think black men are still being given a bill of goods on that front.

    Why?

    Because nearly every white woman I’ve personally seen with a black man looks like the rejects and the leftovers that white men didn’t want – too pudgy or outright obese, pasty skin complexion, an overall 3 or 4 on the 10 scale. They’re usually from the working classes or lower – it’s rare to see a moderately attractive white woman with a working-class black man, whereas a stunningly beautiful black woman might not have so many qualms about being with him.

    BTW, I read Kola Boof’s essay and as you’ve said, I don’t agree with everything in it. Personally, it’s another form of separatism that’s encouraged among Africans, “mulattos” and other peoples with notable black ancestry to prevent them from working with one another towards greater, world-shattering goals. And it insures that mainstream American/European society has nothing to fear from them.

    Like


  327. @ leigh204

    GREAT video. One of the funniest I’ve seen for a long time.

    @ kiwi

    I think those post ideas are excellent.

    Like


  328. @Kiwi
    I also do not understand why not most asian women seem to prefer white men over black men. This has to be something cultural.
    Concerning that the fact that asian men were often misunderstood as dangerous for white women in the past I say that of course nature has not changed in that time. The point is rather that earlier people had not so much contact to people of other races, so they had wrong images in their had. And of course the image of asian men as predators never had any statistical real life basis. Now, as people actually have contact to people of other races, they have a more realistic view of racial differences

    Like


  329. @Mack Lyons

    Could it have been the average Asian’s increased focus on scholastics in preparation for STEM industry work, as opposed to the fields, fishing ships and railroads?

    That is just a rhetorical question, right? That is not how it happened.

    How did we get from THERE to HERE?

    Simple. Two things:
    1. Change the script with the Model Minority stereotype.
    2. White men start to believe they “own” Asian women.
    (It wasn’t until White men decided they wanted the right to bring Asian women to the USA that Asian men started to have a chance to bring Asian women to the USA.)

    @Kiwi

    The same dynamic applies to white men and Asian women. Usually, the white men in such relationships are far from being great catches.

    Does that apply to Hollywood heartthrobs like Nicholas Cage or billionaire entrepreneurs like Mark Zuckerberg?

    Sorry, I know you said “usually” 😛

    Like


  330. @ Kiwi:

    Was that tongue in cheek? I hardly consider those two great catches. Nicholas Cage has no character or integrity and Mark Zuckerberg is Jewish, which places him at the bottom of the white male social ladder. Also, neither one is attractive, especially by white standards.

    I believe it was Hollywood actress, Zsa Zsa Gabor, who said, “No rich man is ugly.”

    If an Asian girl snags the blonde, blue-eyed quarterback who normally goes after the blonde, blue-eyed cheerleader, maybe I’d be impressed. But more often, they get with obese, balding, aged, ugly, short, or nerdy white men that white women don’t want

    The ones I’ve seen tend to fit in these categories. Only a handful look decent.

    Like


  331. @ Kiwi:

    Does that include the small Asian penis stereotype? Most of the time, it seems that white men are promoting it. Am I to believe that these white men have slept with Asian men and seen their penises? I can guarantee that almost every white man who talks about Asian men’s penises would get angry if you accused him of being homosexual. I don’t believe that many white men are closet homosexuals nor do I think they have ever seen Asian men’s penises, so I think they are just making it up. I find it strange that white men are so obsessed over other men’s penises, even more so than women are, and can still not be homosexual.

    The thing that is even more incredibly strange is that most white women who apply the small Asian penis stereotype give that as the reason for never wanting to date Asian men. But if they’ve never slept with one, how would they know? Now that starts to make one wonder how true it is. And here’s the crazy part. Many Asian women who’ve never slept with Asian men also give the small Asian penis stereotype as their reason for never wanting to date an Asian man. Don’t you find this perplexing? So much for “contact” and “realistic views”, right?

    This obsession with Asian men’s penises is disturbing. I know when I had white men with their Asian fetish approach me, and they learned I had an Asian significant other, they would openly mock his supposedly small penis. How would they know this? Anyway, I would simply smile and say, “Let’s just say I’m satisfied.Thanks. Buh-bye.” lol!

    Like


  332. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    That was really funny! Thanks for sharing that vid. I like the way it parodies Asian fetish but in reality, the way “white fetish” manifests among Asian women is very different from what was shown.

    I agree “white fetish” is portrayed differently concerning AW. It’s really weird in a sense that I used to remember the stories by many Asian women I knew who said it was white men who pursued them relentlessly. Now, it’s some of the Westernized Asian women who chase white men. Either way, it’s sad and pathetic.

    Like


  333. @ Bulanik:

    @ leigh204

    GREAT video. One of the funniest I’ve seen for a long time.

    This short vid tickled my funny bone because it’s true! I could relate to everything.

    Like


  334. @ leigh204

    i believe it was Hollywood actress, Zsa Zsa Gabor, who said, “No rich man is ugly.”

    Aha! The “Ari Onasis Syndrome” again! Y’know, short, ugly men aren’t short and ugly when they stand on their money! lol! https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-250069

    A minor observation: when I have been around (East/SE) Asian women with the big blond, blue-eyed hunk type white men, it seemed to me that they made for “self-conscious” couples. I knew 2 couples like this, and must say that what I observed certainly isn’t representative of anything but those individuals.

    This is not because I discerned any “objection” as such to their relationship.
    For me, it was like they were watching themselves being looked at, and admiring themselves for having “found” and chosen the other.
    It was almost “eugenist” in the sense that they seemed to act on some understanding that they theirs was a “racial” attraction as they perceived each other as the pinnacle of Idealised Man and Woman, and kind of Perfect.

    I don’t know what to call it actually.
    I pondered on whether the impression that I received was due to a prejudice of mine that I hadn’t acknowledged. But as much as I examined my own thoughts and feelings, it was not grounded in any belief or passion that they should not be, in principle, together. I don’t “worry” about inter-racial couples, I am the product of a few generations of just that myself, and to be totally frank, don’t feel that strongly about it either way…

    Rather, what I felt more than anything else, was that they were “forced” in their togetherness and faux compatibility, because I learned neither women respected or liked Asian men, and both white men seemed to exclude all other race woman from their choices.

    In one of the couples, the man was a New Zealander and the woman from Japan, and they were keen to have children — but it hadn’t happened, but the woman kept on saying: “we will have ideal kids when they come.
    She herself had tinted her black hair blonde as her husband’s, and sometimes wore “light” coloured contacts. It gave her a washed out look, as blonde didn’t seem right for her wheat-coloured skin.

    I don’t want to speculate on this too much — but it wasn’t exactly soothing around them or likewise, the other other couple I knew , where the white man was considered a blond Adonis hunk and the woman an “Asian” babe.
    They just made me cringe and I never really thought it through to understand possibly why.

    Like


  335. @sharina,
    I have a question for you about Caribbean people in Florida. Do you notice the different groups (islands) keeping to themselves? Or is the Caribbean community as noticeable as the Cuban community?

    Like


  336. @Kiwi

    I agree to a extent that black men and Asian women are preferred in porn. You will find way more interracial porn featuring those pairings than a black woman with a white man or Asian guy. However it seems that white women are still preferred. The top porn stars are pretty much white except for one or two

    Like


  337. @Abagond,

    Did you read the article that was withdrawn from the economist, would love to see a post on your thoughts regarding. Please and thank you!

    http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21615482-how-slaves-built-american-capitalism-blood-cotton

    Like


  338. @ lifelearner

    OMG. Definitely. Thank you!

    Like


  339. @ pumpkin

    That was Forbes.

    Like


  340. Another racist NBA owner bites the dust…

    http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/07/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-racist-email-selling-team/

    Who’s next? What does this really say about the Old White Culture that is the *real power* behind the NBA?

    Like


  341. @ abagond

    When are you going to do your post on ‘Kindred’? I’ve just finished it and although it’s fiction it’s a great counter to the Economist article.

    The thing I liked best about it was Butler made Rufus seem human.

    She could have created a cartoonish version of a slave owner. Instead, we meet Rufus when he’s a little child and through Dana’s eyes we feel empathy for him.

    But then we see him become even more brutal than his father and mother – he causes the woman he ‘loves’ to commit suicide. We seen him evolve into this horrible person and because we connected with him as a child it’s completely believable.

    I think it’s a book that every white person should read. It shook me to my core.

    Like


  342. @ wordy

    Look for it later this week.

    Like


  343. @king,
    He is just using it as an excuse to try to sell the team for the same amount of money Sterling got.

    Like


  344. Links for the aforementioned plagiarism (there are other examples but this is one I bother to save):

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/the-spanish/#comment-194915

    which was plagiarizes from:

    Historian – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Like


  345. Oh dear. It looks like I copied the wrong link for the article from where the info was lifted. I can still trace it though, when time allows. In the meanwhile here is a recent tidbit to munch on Enjoy:

    “Bulanik
    @ omnipresent

    The Teddy boy suits of the rock and rollers in the UK are said to resemble this suit.

    I’d always heard that, too.
    The story goes that the Jamaican men who arrived in England in the late 1940s stepped off the ships in zoots and trilbies, influencing English tailoring as a result.

    (Abagond actually suggested zoot suit riots himself in his own list at the top.)”

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/09/05/nominations-for-hispanic-heritage-month/#comment-252288

    – – –

    She says she always heard this tells the story but makes no acknowledgement of the article and pic she from where she actually lifted the Info:

    http://people.howstuffworks.com/zoot-suit2.htm

    There is a pic with this article that shows three Black men wearing suits similar to the American zoot suit. All three wear the British “trilby” hat as well. There is a large suitcase near them and they appear to be either at a dock or at an airport. The pic caption reads:

    “Three Jamaican immigrants (left to right) John Hazel, a 21-year-old boxer, 32-year-old Harold Wilmot, and John Richards, a 22-year-old carpenter, dressed in zoot suits and trilby hats.”

    There are PLENTY more examples if anyone feels a need to quibble over this one.

    It is just sick how one inveterate liar and plagiarist is handled with kid gloves despite her obvious and wilful deceitfulness, and rampant long-term intellectual theft. Sheesh.

    Like


  346. @Kiwi

    In fact, the reason she seems to have written the article is not to defend Asian men, but to defend her right to date white men.

    Agree.

    I wonder if it helped to assuage her feelings of guilt.

    Like


  347. Make it three, guys. I totally agree. She would’ve had merit if she were dating an Asian man. It’s the same with all those Asian-American female celebrities who say Asian men are emasculated and yet here they are dating/married to WM. Actions speak louder than words.

    Like


  348. @ Legion @ Pay It Forward

    I put some of your comments into moderation. I may have deleted some that seemed like duplicates.

    Like


  349. Pay it forward said:

    omnipresent

    The Teddy boy suits of the rock and rollers in the UK are said to resemble this suit.

    Sh!t. I should have quoted the fact that I read this on wikipedia in Zoot Suits
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_suit .
    Not sure if this is being implied but I didnt intend to pass this off as my own interpretation and I can see why some people might have thought this.

    Think its best that I stick to what I know which isnt much but I do my best 🙂

    Like


  350. @ Bulanik

    I put some of your comments into moderation along with those of Legion and Pay It Forward.

    Like


  351. @ abagond

    Fair enough.

    Further microaggressions and ad hominem: see the Wordynerdygirl on What to do about lying thread.

    Like


  352. @Abagond: Are you going to do a post on the Ray Rice fiasco? I hate men who batter women. But i do see a double standard here where Rice’s is being made an example of. White men, Asian, Latino/hispanic men batter their wives,girlfriends and significant others. Maybe a post is about this is due as well. I know you did a post on domestic violence.The Ray Rice fiasco is probably the topic thread to address that.

    Like


  353. @ Mary

    I am doing a post on that. It should appear tomorrow, God willing, unless Obama drops some kind of huge bombshell in his speech tonight (not expected, but then bombshells rarely are).

    Like


  354. @ Pumpkin

    I have not had a chance to look at it yet.

    Like


  355. @ Kiwi:

    I know of Asian women who grew up in Asian majority neighborhoods and attended Asian majority universities but only dated white men.

    Isn’t that interesting? I grew up with predominantly white people well into my teens and yet I only wanted to date Asian men. I was also asked out by mostly white men, but I wasn’t interested.

    Like


  356. @ Pay It Forward

    Tons of Jamaicans came to Britain at that time, many no doubt dressed their best when they arrived. That you found a picture of that hardly means she plagiarized.

    Like


  357. Anne

    I am sorry I just saw your comment. I will respond in detail tomorrow.

    Like


  358. @Kiwi,

    Interestingly, Asian men were also seen that way until the mid-20th century.

    You know, I am beginning to believe more and more that the main turning point was the Asian War Brides Act of 1947. White men pushed to bring in tens of thousands of war brides from Asia (while at the same time kept the quotas for Asian countries at some measly low level), keeping it difficult for Asian men to bring Asian women over.
    Something had to be invented to satisfy that cognitive dissonance in white men about owning the rights to Asian women.

    Then, after 1968, we had larger numbers of Asian women coming to the USA, and then white men did not even have to go to Asia to get Asian women.

    What I still haven’t figured out is why so many Asian women get white fever and bash Asian men with a passion. Do they hate their fathers or something?

    Like


  359. @Anne

    I am probably not the best person to ask about Florida dynamic. I don’t live there but I visit. Unlike most tourist, I just prefer to interact with the area and the people rather than do the expected tourist attractions. I also would not visit during high tourist seasons. With that being said I did notice on our last visit that Caribbean people seemed to keep to themselves. When we were in town I barely saw them unless I was going to a specific Caribbean store or restaurant. The Cuban community is extremely overwhelming and it was hard for me to really find a good deal of Caribbean people to interact with.

    Where I live in south Carolina/Georgia it is quite different though. We have a shockingly decent size of African and Caribbean community. Even more shocking is the amount of restaurants and shops that I learned about last year at the arts in the heart. They seem to be increasingly out doing the Mexican and Cuban communities here.

    Like


  360. The one thing I enjoy about Abagond’s blog is having a safe space where people of color can talk freely about the issues that affect them without having to worry about being shouted or harassed into silence by bigots and the like.

    Very much like what’s happening over at a sub-Reddit, /r/blackladies.

    As much as I want to applaud these ladies for trying to change things from within, I personally find it an effort that won’t get much traction. The culture over at Reddit is just poisoned, through and through. All of the innocuous boards in the world (/r/corgi, etc.) won’t save it.

    Like


  361. @sharina,
    For some reason I thought you were of Caribbean descent and lived in Florida. My mistake.

    Like


  362. @ Wordy @ Curiousity @ Pumpkin

    The “Kindred” post should go up on the 16th.

    Like


  363. @ Abagond

    Fabulous – really looking forward to it!

    I’ve just finished the ‘Lilith’s Brood’ series too. Didn’t like it quite as much as ‘Kindred’ but it was really fascinating nevertheless, despite the strange tentacle baby-making moments!

    Like


  364. pumpkin:

    “what’s wrong sondis?”

    I’m angry, because i’ve had it up to here—> with all the bull-spit that is going on in this country.

    I am thinking about going, to where whites has so often suggested…..Go back to Africa. Silly as it may sound, being i am not from Africa but America.

    @ : o l ) >

    Like


  365. pretty sure guy fawlkes had some problems with explosives actually hmm

    Like


  366. @ Mary

    I finally watched Belle today. The movie is absolutely beautiful. It made me cry.

    Like


  367. In mentioning what one — perhaps — is not (islamophobic, Eurocentric, and certainly not Afrocentric [“the sheer fine-ness of Caucasian peoples,” which, it seems, includes certain Indian “peoples,” especially Punjabis]) one forgot to mention what one has shown oneself to be, to wit: a Muslim apologist, an Indo-phile/ Indo-centrist, Anglo-phile/Anglo-centrist, and Anti-American.

    Like


  368. @ abagond,

    Thanks so much for playing the role of neutral moderator in this and in other sensitive situations on your blog. It is very much appreciated.

    Perhaps, though, when all results are in, a certain commenter can once again take up residency in the comments section via an (undisclosed) pseudonym. I’m sure that most other commenters will be agreeable to silently looking the other way, and to actively pretend that the whole thing never happened in the first place. 😉

    Like


  369. Comment in moderation.

    Like


  370. a certain commenter can once again take up residency in the comments section via an (undisclosed) pseudonym. I’m sure that most other commenters will be agreeable to silently looking the other way, and to actively pretend that the whole thing never happened in the first place. 😉

    But will she?
    A certain other commenter is always changing her name, and is quite deluded in her belief that “most” commenters don’t see her for what she is.
    They just don’t say it here. 😉

    As it goes, I don’t follow psychiatric disorders myself.
    I don’t know the language or the definitions.
    But I know a certain commenter is fooling herself if she thinks she has escaped ANY of the psychiatric categories she applies to others…

    Like


  371. @ Abagond

    Regarding: Wordynerdygirl & her “original” writings.

    I am due in the Middle East next month, and there are staff researchers in the Political Science Depts of at least one of the universities there (you know the country) who would very much CARE to scrutinize the essay and thesis that Wordy has claimed are her own work, and not that of plagiarist.

    There is at least one other insititution (Eastern Europe) that I have been in touch with who would relish picking apart her work.
    And since she has nothing to hide, this shouldn’t be a problem, should it?

    Please, if possible, have Wordynerdy forward files of essays/dissertation to you and I will take it from there.

    Wordynerdygirl strikes me as simply trying too hard.
    More than that, she’s making her claims just a little too loudly and a little too
    often. I think the expression is “the lady doth protest too much”.

    I am sure it goes far deeper than she is proclaiming here.
    Hence my suspicion.
    Whether she likes it or not, there is a ring of the “familiarity” about what she says — what she claims as her own.
    It is “derivative”, at best, and there are those who find her out.

    Wordynerdygirl will be well and truly busted, I fear.

    (Also posted on Comment Policy and How is lying cured.)

    Like


  372. *…there are those who WILL find her out.”

    Like


  373. @ Bulanik

    I deleted same apparent duplicate comments and one where to call someone a Neanderthal.

    Like


  374. @ Abagond

    I don’t “call” PIF a Neanderthal, elsewhere she has made proud claim to her genetic inheritance from this human family group.

    It was no slur against her.

    Like


  375. @ Abagond

    Explain then to me, why it stands that PIF may liken me to Charles Manson?
    A mass murderer.

    Or Hitler.

    Like


  376. @ Abagond

    Explain too, why it stands that PIF may freely call me sociopath or narcissist and not held account nor have that classed as “personal attack”?

    Tell us why personal attacks are small fry in your book?

    Like


  377. Or is it simply a matter of who may be attacked as against who is spared from that? It seems some commenters may attack at will, and counter-attack is very, very carefully monitored.

    Like


  378. I

    n mentioning what one — perhaps — is not (islamophobic, Eurocentric, and certainly not Afrocentric [“the sheer fine-ness of Caucasian peoples,” which, it seems, includes certain Indian “peoples,” especially Punjabis]) one forgot to mention what one has shown oneself to be, to wit: a Muslim apologist, an Indo-phile/ Indo-centrist, Anglo-phile/Anglo-centrist, and Anti-American.

    Now, this ^^ can not go unchallenged. That sounds a bit white-washed and self-hating. Not healthy at all.

    The commenter who believes this is pretty much anti-foreigner, anti-Immigrant, and anti-Asian, and pretty much in an Equal Opportunities kind of way.
    I imagine they don’t like Asians having A Presence on this blog that was not as conspicuous as before. They comment too much. And it is negative competition, because what Asians put up with is nothing and nowhere like the REAL suffering that black people in America have.

    I am a Muslim Apologist? Right, because “Muslims” are all terrorists, and because I don’t subscribe to that belief, it means I am “anti-American”.
    Problem is my mother is American, my Dad was, my siblings are, their kids are, I have a home there (though don’t use the property)…and other private connections… So, yes, next time I around my Senegalese, Bosniak or Malaysian friends (no, they are not imaginary), who are all Muslims, I will remember they are terrorists, too…

    I am an Indophile. Should I hate India and Indians?
    I have found that Poles, Canadians, Welsh, Germans, Austrians, Costa Ricans, Americans, Filipinos, Armenians, Eritreans, Kenyans, Maccanenese, lovable, some individuals, sure. Parts of their cultures, too. Same with the English and Irish and Russians and Hungarians and Lebanese and Ghanaians and Igbo-Nigerians…

    {ROLLS EYES}

    Like


  379. @ Kiwi

    Thanks for your response to my question. It’s really interesting background to your comments.

    It’s funny because this is cyberspace but all the regular commenters here have their own distinct personas and writing styles. I don’t know anything about anyone here but as Buddhu says above it’s a little community of sorts, even if it’s a slightly dysfunctional one at times!

    Like


  380. @Kiwi,

    Just thinking of the Joy Luck Club, which depicted all the Asian men as pigs or losers. That is how Asian women married to white men write about Asian men.

    Like


  381. @ Pumpkin @ Wordy

    The “Kindred” post at long last is up:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/09/17/kindred/

    Like


  382. @Kiwi

    I am confident that the book serves as an accurate portrayal of Asian female self-hatred.

    I wouldn’t go as far as saying that it represents the viewpoint of other Asian American women unless it became a best seller among Asian American women and the reviews by Asian American women extolled how it encapsulated their viewpoint.

    Of course, it adds food for thought and if Asian American women are not outraged by it, we can say that it represents at least a lot of people.

    I wonder how many Asian American female of readers or viewers of The Joy Luck Club said to themselves that they see themselves in there somewhere.

    You know, in the past couple weeks, I had a New York born Chinese American woman as my scuba diving student. She is the daughter of my college roommate’s brother-in-law. I think she is into white guys. Even though she has a master’s degree in international relations from Georgetown she has a completely white (mostly white liberal) view of US history and politics, including her understanding about Black American and Asian American history. For example, she would believe blacks were subject to Jim Crow, but Asians were not (as well as all the other stuff the Young Turks said). She does not connect the Asian American experience to US foreign policy even though she has a master’s in International relations from a prestigious university.

    Like


  383. October 17th Dear White People is coming to a theater near you. I can’t wait.

    Like


  384. Kiwi,

    I met this woman in Hong Kong (not in New York), but I did meet her father at least twice as her father’s sister is married to my college roommate from decades ago. She has moved to HK for work at an investment bank.

    When I was doing her dive training, she was telling me that, well, Asians never were subjected to racism like blacks (and she told me about her amazement after seeing 12 years as a slave that not all blacks in the USA were slaves before the Civil War) and unapologetically, I had to interrupt her to remind her that together with the Chinese Exclusion Act, Chinese were lynched, massacred, and essentially driven out, an attempt by the USA to cleanse itself of its ethnic Chinese population, a form of genocide. Japanese Americans were rounded up and imprisoned for their race, another precursor to genocide. And Asian Americans WERE subject to Jim Crow.

    I asked her if she had any opportunity to learn much about US history, and she told me that she was not really interested in learning history. (I thought to myself, HUH? and you got a master’s in International Relations?).

    Well, she got really offended, and the whole interchange ended after about one minute. I dropped it and never brought it up again.

    On a later meeting, she brought a white guy out on the boat to join her dive training.

    Like


  385. I’ve heard how New York is a dystopia for Asian men because nearly every white/Asian couple there is a white male and Asian female. Then again, California is pretty dismal, too. It’s really bizarre.

    I think the stats are most dismal in those regions that actually have more Asian Americans. Maybe whites in those areas are more used to Asians.

    Sometimes I wonder if an Asian man wants to get married, would he have to go to Asia to find a spouse. It seems like not much change since before the Exclusion acts and Anti-miscegenation laws were repealed.

    It does seem that we can trace Asian male emasculation to Yellow Peril. That deserves further study and analysis.

    Like


  386. @Kiwi,

    Maybe in areas with a higher proportion of Asian Americans, there is considerably more Asian male bashing or emasculation. Perhaps where Asian numbers are low, whites and Asian females feel less inclined to bash Asian males.

    Sorry, that I don’t know everything there is to know about Asian American sociological phenomenon. But the rate of Asian male emasculation seems to escalated further since I left the USA. It was bad enough then (think Joy Luck Club) but it seems like everyone believes it now.

    I think part of it has to do with Yellow Peril (ie, controlling the threat of Asians), but that would not explain why Asian women jump on the Asian male bashing bandwagon.

    Unless, the target of fear is really the Asian man and Asian women have internalized the white fear of Asian men and joined their emasculation (without really knowing why).

    Like


  387. Kiwi,

    I agree. I think Asian men are often seen as less masculine than other men and therefore, less threatening when it comes to the context of gendered violence and rape. At the same time, this emasculation means that Asian men often are not seen as “manly enough” for dating. Which is part of the same stereotype, I think. (In a similar way that stereotypes about black men being well endowed is not a positive thing, because it brings the nasty stereotypes about black men).

    It sucks and it’s unfair either way because Asian men are no less masculine than any other group of men.

    Like


  388. Mary Burrell,

    I am excited for Dear White People, but I am not sure if it’s going to be available where I live. (I am in Canada now). Hopefully it will, and I hope more and more people will hear about it.

    Like


  389. Hi Kiwi,

    I took a looong break on the site, but I kind of visit it from time to time. I’d like to be more active again!

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  390. There was a very good post made by the commenter Aiyo on her personal website. She called it “The Three Bears effect”, and it’s a great example of these powers at play. It’s a very good read. Let me try to find the link.

    Here it is:

    http://blackbritishgirl.blogspot.ca/2010/01/three-bears-effect_12.html

    It was also featured on Abagond’s website:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/the-three-bears-effect/

    I don’t want to dare to speak for Asian women since I’m not an Asian woman myself, but I do think the above effect is very harmful for both black and Asian men because it dehumanizes them while uplifting white men.

    Personally, I don’t find Asian men less masculine than other types of men, but nobody asks me for my opinion here.

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  391. I meant to say “other races of men”, not “other types”. I don’t know what with me today. i should re-read the comments before I send them!

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  392. @ Mira:

    Hey! How’s it going, eh? I came back after a long hiatus a few months ago. You said you live in Canada now? Since when? Which province if you don’t mind me asking? As you can tell by the 204 in my SN, I live in the middle of Canada. It’s great to see you on here! 😀

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  393. Oh, hi! Glad to see you here. I had a long hiatus so I wasn’t sure there was anyone left of the 2010 crowd (if I can call us like this).

    I moved to Canada to pursue my PhD. I arrived about 3 weeks ago. I’m in Alberta (it’s easy to guess where, I suppose).

    How are you? Your avatar is so great!

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  394. ^ @ Mira:

    Oh, thanks! I had a recent personal crisis which finally has been resolved. Other than that, I’m doing okay. Thank you for asking! So what do you think of Alberta so far? Btw, what made you pick Alberta as the place to pursue your doctorate? I take it you’re staying for quite a while? If you are, please be prepared for winter. lol! I come from one of the coldest parts of Canada and I’m telling you now it’s important to layer your winter clothing. That’s my tip for you. 🙂

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  395. Sorry to hear about the crisis. I hope everything’s fine now.

    I got my visa for 4 years, because this is how long the program lasts (though it depends on how fast you can perform your research and write your thesis). The funding is only for 4 years, lol. I chose Alberta because, well, this is where my supervisor is. When it comes to PhD studies, you don’t choose based on the institution or location, you choose based on the supervisor who has the same research interests as you. Since my research interest is somewhat specific for my discipline (anthropology), there are not that many of them around the world… And one happens to be in Alberta!

    Yes, I know about the winter. We already had the first snow on September 8!!! I am kind of prepared, but for now, it’s pretty…. Much the same as back home? This is the thing that surprised me at most. I don’t have a feeling I am in a foreign country. Sure, the city is smaller than my homecity and people speak in English, but other than that, everything seems so familiar. I am waiting for some kind of a culture shock but it’s not coming. Except for the fact people here really like pickup trucks and it’s polite to say “thank you” to the bus driver. Those are the only new things for me. Oh, and the sizes of food packages. They are enormous, one person can’t eat so much food in… a week? Though those are small differences and all in all, it all seems so familiar, in lack of a better word.

    Oh, sorry for the novel. Glad to see you here. 🙂

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  396. @Kiwi

    Nobody has stereotyped me as a violent rapist.

    That is not what Yellow Peril means. It has to do with an Alien race slowly taking over white America.

    The more I think about it, it makes perfect sense that the emasculation of the Asian male is related in some direct way to the need for white Americans to control for Yellow Peril. Even all those “negative” (at least unmasculine ones) labels affixed to Asian males probably do have some direct relationship to Yellow Peril also – a way to make Asian males powerless.

    I am not saying that this the full explanation, but definitely a factor.

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  397. As long as a white man does not lose his white status and power and privilege by marrying an Asian woman, then there is less need to control for the Yellow Peril threat in that circumstance.

    Before WWII, and white man WOULD lose status and privilege by marrying an Asian woman. The War Brides Act changed that.

    The only way that it could threaten the current state for white men marrying Asian women would be if their sons rose up and joined forces (maybe with Asian men) to fight white men about these problems (eg, bamboo ceiling or Asian male emasculation). This is unlikely as
    – it would require sons to confront their fathers (and mothers)
    – it would require sons to balance the personal reward between inheriting some white privilege from their fathers or joining forces with Asian men to fight or self-determination. It might just be easier to accept what life doles out to you

    But it is hard to see how Asian males marrying white women (or even Asian women) contributes to enhance the white male power structure.

    It seems easier to explain why white males enjoy doing Asian male bashing, but it is more difficult to understand the widespread incidence of Asian women joining that bandwagon.

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  398. @Kiwi,
    Sorry about this. I thought the answer was very obvious re:

    What I’m wondering, by looking at the census, is why there was such a huge spike in the number of Asians in the US during the 50s. For example, the Japanese American population tripled in a decade, from 142,000 to 464,000, while Asian immigration was still banned. Could this have anything to do with war brides? Similarly, the Chinese American population went from 118,000 to 237,000 in the same time frame. I’m not sure if there were Chinese war brides.

    There are many factors, but when added together, could help explain or verify the phenomenon.

    1. Repeal of the Exclusion Acts (1943,1946)

    Immigration was not strictly banned after the repeal, but held to an exceedingly small quota until 1965-1968. However, new categories of immigrants became available after WWII.

    Prior to 1943, Chinese entered the USA largely via the Paper Son and Paper Daughter phenomenon. Chinese men would find a way to bring over paper sons and daughters, but not their wives (which could not enter the USA during the Exclusion Act and the US v. Wong Kim Ark decision did not change that). Chinese men in the USA could get a wife generally by one of 2 methods
    – enter as a paper daughter of a USA citizen
    – claim that they were born in SF prior to the 1906 Earthquake and get a document to attest to that.

    My grandmother was born around 1909. Although she had never stepped in the USA until mid 1930s, she secured a fake document stating she was born in SF in 1902, which she later used to get social security in the late 1960s.

    Those not old enough to be born before the 1906 Earthquake came in as paper daughters. My eldest Aunt from my grandfather’s first wife came in (just at the beginning of WWII) as the daughter of my grandmother (who had a document stating she was born in the USA), ie, as the daughter of a US citizen, even though she was only about 5 years younger than my grandmother.

    That was pre-1943 / 1946.

    Post-1943 (for Chinese) or post 1946 (for Indians, Filipinos, etc.) the immigration ban was lifted and replaced with a tiny quota, not enough to make much of a difference. However, it became possible for US citizen men (whether actual USA citizen or paper USA citizen) to bring wives over to the USA and reunite with their families without being subject to the quota. Sons and daughters (whether actual or paper) were no longer subject to the very strict screening process that they had on Angel Island. However, the market for paper sons and daughters did not disappear as the quotas were still very small.

    Family reunification spaces were not normally subject to the tiny immigration quotas. So what we saw in the late 1940s was a spike in family reunification. It became much easier for families that had been separated for decades to finally be together again. My great uncle’s daughter had been born in China in the late 1890s and had never met her father until she finally could come to the USA in 1946, and she could bring her very own Chinese born daughter (born 1920s) too (I have met her – she was living in Sacramento when I last went there).

    After families got reunited, there was a spike in marriages and a spike in the ABC population late 40s to late 50s).

    Another side effect: when the Exclusion Acts (which were based on race) were repealed, they were replaced by a small quota by country. This means that ethnic Asians (eg, ethnic Chinese from Mexico, Cuba, Costa Rica, Jamaica, etc.) were no longer subject to exclusion based on race. They would be based on the country of origin. We saw Asians entering the USA from other countries.

    2. War Brides Act
    There were 2 categories
    – Asian men, even those not born in the USA, who had served in the US military could go to Asia and bring back a wife to the USA not subject to measly immigration quota (please read the book or see the movie “Eat a Bowl of Tea” to understand what I am talking about).
    – non-Asian men, ie, whites and blacks, could bring back Asian wives not subject to the immigration quotas

    Tens of thousands of Asian women entered the USA under the War Brides Act after WWII. Many more entered after the Korean War and during the Vietnam War. Most of the Eurasian (ie, Hapa) kids I grew up with had War Bride mothers.

    And yes, there were Chinese war brides too. For example, there were US military stationed in Taiwan after 1949. They brought back women to the USA (who might have been of either Taiwanese or mainland origin). I went to school with a girl that had a Taiwanese war bride mother. And don’t forget Suzy Wong – even sailors on R&R in Hong Kong brought back wives from there as a war bride.
    Thai war brides were brought back during the Vietnam war – look at Tiger Woods’s mother. US military intelligence was stationed in Thailand even though the war was not being fought there.

    3. Postwar baby boom
    This affected everyone, but Asians, who could finally reunite with their families, soon became busy making babies.

    4. Repeal of Anti-miscegenation Laws
    It was not repealed by the Supreme court until 1967, but individual states repealed their laws earlier. So we saw more Asian men marrying whites or other non-Asians from late 1940s to late 1960s. However, on the census, their children more likely than not would be recorded in an Asian category (ie, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino). 2 or more races was not a choice until the 2000 census.

    5. Hawaii became a State
    This largely explains the spike in the Japanese American population, adding nearly 200,000 more Japanese Americans overnight. It also added to the Chinese and Filipino populations. They were not counted in the USA census before then. (but separately as an overseas territory — not too much unlike the Philippines).

    They moved to the US mainland, and many intermarried with mainland USA Asian men. For example, the older brother of my Filipino American godmother first married a white woman in the early 50s and had 2 kids (which would have been classified as Filipino). He divorced his first wife. Around 1959, he got a second wife, a Hawaiian born Filipina American.

    ***> I hope this is a partial explanation why there was a large increase in the Asian American population from late 40s to mid 60s despite miniscule immigration quotas.

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  399. Kiwi,

    I still am going to have to disagree with you regarding your take on the meaning of Yellow Peril I guess.

    Yellow Peril predated Model Minority by over a century and is still operating today. The emergence of Model Minority did not cause Yellow Peril not to apply anymore and was not created to address Yellow Peril per se. Model Minority was not created solely or even primarily to keep Asians under control, but both blacks and Asians, particularly blacks.

    When Model Minority came out the first time, the USA was in the heat of the Vietnam War. Yellow Peril was a main theme, and Model Minority was not promoted as a technique to control Yellow Peril (but to control black political and social power). Asians were dehumanized in the 60s/70s – that was the main method at that time to deal with Yellow Peril. White men came back from Vietnam saying that they fought in Asia so that Asians would not be flooding into THEIR country.

    The Model Minority stereotype, as you currently understand it, did not emerge until the mid-1980s. And your version of it is concentrated in Drain Brain communities. I bet if you went to where the Vietnamese shrimp boaters operate or to New York Chinatown sweatshops you would see something different.

    Yellow Peril is still a major theme in the USA and is about an Alien race taking over the treasured white American way of life. Any white fear of Asian men raping white women relates more to the fear that they will succumb more to the Alien race rather than to a specific fear of violence. It has not been erased by the Model Minority. It just means that new ways to control it must emerge, eg,
    – Perpetual Foreigner
    – Bamboo Ceiling
    – Asian male emasculation

    We need posts on these topics, ie,
    – Yellow Peril
    – Bamboo Ceiling
    – Asian Male Emasculation (and other stereotypes)

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  400. @Abagond: I am sure you are aware of the big dust up New York Times journalist Alessandra Stanley has poyrtrayed Shonda Rimes with the ugly stereotype of the “angry black woman.” When a black woman is smart, and successful or well dressed or pretty even they are portrayed as something negative. This Alessandra Stanley is very racist and deserves the dragging she is getting in social media. Would you consider doing a post on this?

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  401. *portrayed*

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  402. Whenever a black woman is vocal and has opinions she is labeled an angry black woman, well maybe there are some things that need to be addressed and some white people feel they are angry. Are we not allowed to have a gamut of emotions? Are we supposed to be smiling and happy all the time just so they can feel comfortable and non threatened?

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  403. The Cosby Show turns 30 today. Great show still love it in 2014.

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  404. Kiwi,

    I didn’t know that Asian-themed cafes and bars were safe spaces (as in, Asian spaces that should be for Asians only). I kind of assumed whoever likes Asian cuisine (well, specifically national cuisine: Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.) would go there. Do you think it’s bad for whites to go to this type of restaurants and cafes?

    Interestingly enough, I saw one interracial couple today (white girl with an Asian guy) and I remembered this conversation.

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  405. @ Mira

    Welcome back! I am glad to hear you will have the time and money to do your PhD!

    I think you remember Herneith, B.R. and Peanut in addition to Leigh. They are still here. Peanut and Pumpkin are the same person. I unbanned B.R. because I realized that Thad egged him into losing it.

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  406. @ Mary

    I heard about the Stanley thing. I will do a post on it.

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  407. Kiwi,

    As you know, I am in Asia. I see many couples of Asian woman with white men (here, they call them “westerners”) daily, even though I do not live in the expat neighborhoods. When I do find myself in an expat environment (eg, a talk or cultural event targetted to an expat audience), I see many Asian female / white male couples present, fewer white male / white female couples, a few groups of all white men, all white women or mixed white men/women with a couple of Asian females present. Usually I don’t see a single Asian male / white female, even if there are thousands of expats present.

    I do see Asian male / white female couples, but they are so few and far between and I never see any with kids (well, once maybe in the past year).

    If it is indeed women who do the choosing, why do no white women (sorry, almost none, like 1 in 10,000 or something) choose any Asian man in Asia. It couldn’t be that there are none available. I get the impression that nearly all white female expats who are not with a white husband or boyfriend choose to remain single and dateless rather than consider an Asian man.

    Yet, I personally know dozens of white men who came to Asia to follow their Asian girlfriend, or to marry their Asian girlfriend.

    Given my personal background, I am very keen and sensitive to when I see an Asian male with a white female. I see it even much less in Asia than I do in the USA.

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  408. @Kiwi,

    You’re in dire need to do some Asian American studies classes. You grew up thinking that all the stuff you saw growing up were just facts of life and not something cooked up in people’s minds.

    I grew up seeing an Asian male / white female every day during my childhood. But I could go a whole year and not see a single other example out there. There was not a single solitary person who could explain what I was experiencing and my parents had too many problems of their own and were not in any position to help me.

    It sounds like your parents did not take any time to learn about US history or politics or race relations and just picked up what white people told them. It sounds like they are not in any position to navigate life fully as an Asian American.

    But you learned a few ideas of your own that are based on stuff you just gleaned about, but not really experienced or studied to a large extent (eg, all you say about Jews).

    To tell you the truth, I rarely see Asian male / white female couples, but I am not sure that I am dying to see more of them either. I grew up in a family that did not work out. Of all the Asian male / white female couples I have seen, I have yet to see one where the white female truly respects her husband / boyfriend and does not cling to or assert her white privilege. Every single white person I have known with an Asian partner feels that white / Western / European, etc. is somehow superior to things Asian, even if they do not explicitly express it. This is what I have seen in both Asia and America.

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  409. Abagond,

    Thanks! I am glad to be back. I guess I was never completely gone; I was visiting from time to time, but once you are not visiting or commenting regularly, you kind of lose track. (Plus, i got hooked on Tumblr, but that’s another story :P)

    I didn’t really have money, but I received funding (scholarship, etc.), so it allowed me to go for it. 🙂

    Yes, I remember all of the people you’ve mentioned, though for the life of me I can’t remember the banning incident nor what happened exactly. Never mind, glad to see your blog going strong. I catch your posts and reblogs on Tumblr from time to time.

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  410. I don’t even want to go into the Asian men discussion (I mean, I don’t have a right to do it, I am not Asian, my opinion is irrelevant and I don’t share your experience). I can only comment on the whole “preference” and “masculinity” thing, to which I say: bullsh.t

    Preferences exist, but they are not so random and “natural” as some people perceive them to be. I mean, sure, humans have preferences for other humans, that is natural, i suppose, but there is nothing natural about preferences for a certain race (or, should I say – for excluding a certain race).

    What people see as preferences is shaped and formed, and it’s cultural, which means it’s largely learned. And it’s not so much of a myth – I mean, just a few decades ago, (western) men had a preference for unshaven pubic area, while today shaved is preferred. This is a banal example but illustrates my point. You can influence someone’s preference very easily (especially if you start when a person is young). Racism and race relations play a huge role into forming people’s preferences.

    Now, as I know, animal behavior show that preferences are often formed based on what you have around while growing up. In human terms, a person of one race who grows up among a different race might form a preference for the race they grew up with. In fact, it’s claimed that the reason many people have a preference for their own race is because most of the people you are growing up with are often people of your own race. So these things are expected and not surprising.

    However, it can’t explain preferences to the fullest, especially when it comes to people who prefer other race than their own (even though they didn’t grow up among people of this race). This is where racial sentiments play a huge role. White is everywhere, white is seen as default, and white is seen as the best (again, the Three Bear Effect). In this process, all of the other races are portrayed as “lesser than”.

    I can’t speak for Asian women (nor white women, for that matter; I’m just one person), but like I said earlier, I don’t agree with idea that Asian men are less masculine or attractive than whites. (Obviously. it depends on the person, but as a group, no). Though I might notice different things on men, so I don’t know.

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  411. @Kiwi,

    When I was younger, I never questioned the Asian interracial disparity, just like I never questioned the Model Minority Myth.

    In my very early childhood, there was not a huge gravitation of Asian American women towards white men for several reasons
    – Some states still had anti-miscegenation laws or had just recently repealed them.
    – Asian American women were fewer in number compared
    – Asian men did not have enough Asian women to marry; many had to marry out or find some way of bringing a wife over from Asia
    – Most Asian women married to white men were war brides. Many of those white men were condemned for their choices.
    – Whites rarely encountered Asians. For one thing, they were kept out of many white neighborhoods..Also, there was no large number of brain drain graduates who headed straight to the suburbs (at least not yet).
    – White men thought of Asian women as prostitutes. That was the main stereotype. It was not someone that a white man would bring home to show Mom.

    But boy, things changed almost overnight. By the time I went to university, Asian women were starting to date white men in droves.

    So, I saw it change right before my eyes. I knew it was not a fact. Some very certain social changes occurred in the 70s-80s to change everything. I think it was a combination of the Vietnam War, the enactment of new immigration laws and the lowered taboo of interracial marriage. I think it also had to do with a new generation of Asian Americans growing up with no experience with the severe exclusions imposed on Asians (in education, housing, citizenship, employment, etc.).

    Likewise, the Model Minority thing went quiet for a while from late 60s to mid 80s, and presto, it suddenly became a fact. Kinda weird.

    B.R.’s stereotypes are more old school. His attitudes towards Asians sounded like my grandparents. That whole Mao thing – really hit where it hurt. I know it did not hit you that bad but it really was painful for me. His is more pre-80s type stuff.

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  412. Pumpkin,

    it has nothing to do with them perhaps that’s why…because they aren’t the center of the universe for once and it shows that POC have a life without them…

    I think this might be the case. Just like whites often get offended when they are not invited/welcomed to POC only safe places. This is a similar thing at play – it’s not just about two people (an Asian man and a black woman) finding love and minding their own business as individuals – it’s perceived as Asians and blacks minding their own business as a group, not paying attention to whites, not validating whites, ignoring whites. Whites don’t like that much. (In a perverse way, it sometimes seems like some whites seem to prefer POC who raise their voices against racism because that puts whites in the center of attention).

    There is also some belief many whites have that white is not just “the best” but “default”, so if a POC person is in an interracial relationship, that must be with white people, right?

    Not to mention that Asian man/black woman pairings defy so many stereotypes about both groups (Asian men and black women) that some people find it confusing. I can’t speak for Black men and Asian women, though (or their opinions on Asian men/black women pairings).

    Though it’s interesting that the kiss in Romeo Must Die was cut because WHITE audience didn’t like it.

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  413. I think that back in the days (19th century? Early 20th century? Not sure), the main idea was that different “kinds” don’t mix and that everybody should stick to “their own”. Be it whites or POC. I do think this was a dominant belief, at least among whites, and not just when applied to white and POC relations.*

    It’s a bit different today. While the “no mixing” proponents still exist, I think today (for whites who oppose IR relationships) it’s more on the side of: “white is the best so why ruin it by associating yourself with someone inferior”.

    * Though this might not be universal. Look at South America. The politics there was historically different when it comes to mixing. Not less racist, but different.

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  414. Kiwi,

    I think I need to address your points separately.

    The change in dating occurred after
    – Anti-miscegenation laws were repealed (1967)
    – White men (and black men for that matter) encountered Asian women in many different places in Asia – that is where many of them first met Asian women (not in the USA).
    – Brain drain families moved to the suburbs and sent their kids to local high schools and universities
    – Asian American baby boomers came of age
    – Asian women in the USA became available in larger numbers after the amendment to the Immigration laws.

    So I think the turning point was around the close of the Vietnam War (1975). Fewer white men were stationed in Asia just as the number of Asian women in the USA started to rise. The WM/AW dating and marriage phenomenon exploded around 1975-1985.

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  415. on Tue Sep 23rd 2014 at 04:53:13 grin and bear it

    Abagond, what happened to your Index? I wanted to browse and reread some of your older entries, and I always found your Index a great jumping off point. Did it just get too unwieldy?

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  416. So the Model Minority came in two phases. The original stereotype was aimed at old school Asian Americans during the Civil Rights Movement but the second was aimed at brain drain Asians under the Reagan administration. Do you know a specific time period for when the Model Minority stereotype died down during the late 60s to mid 80s?

    Yes, I think it came in 2 phases.

    And I think the stereotype did not disappear, but basically laid low from the late 60s to the mid 80s. I think there may be a couple reasons:

    – The Vietnam War — simultaneously the USA had to dehumanize Asians so that whites could go to Asia and kill them. It would be hard to promote the model minority stereotype when Asians were also being vilified
    – The Cultural Revolution in China – again, Asians being vilified
    – Affirmative Action – it grew and expanded from the late 60s to the early 80s. Since the whole purpose of the Model Minority Stereotype was to quell demands from blacks for Affirmative Action, it seemed counterproductive to promote the Model Minority at that time.
    – Asians were still small in number in most places. They were not yet overpowering universities and winning all the National spelling bees and Westinghouse Science awards (although they were still well represented despite their low numbers).
    – Vincent Chin – Yes, I think this even delayed the vigourous promotion of the stereotype, at least for a couple years.

    Reagan and the Republican strategy changed that. The Republicans already had the Southern Strategy to attract angry white men. Now they needed another.

    How do Republicans roll back Affirmative action and vilify blacks without seeming racist? Make it not about race!
    – thuggify blacks (those who grew up in that era remember Willie Horton – he was used to condemn democrats)
    – arrest and incarcerate black men
    – portray black women as welfare queens

    THEN, portray Asians as the opposite.

    Interesting that Willie Horton was caught on his prison furlough after committing crimes in the town adjacent to where I grew up.

    But in the 1980s, Asian Americans were winning all the national academic contests and flooding top elite universities, beating out whites. This is no doubt related to the children of brain drain immigrants working their way through the high schools and universities. It was then easy to seize on that and relieve whites of their accusation of being racist. I heard the mantra all the time.
    First you heard in the 1970s from whites: We are not racist. We let an Asian (but then, they would use the term “Oriental”) in. – (as a resistance to Affirmative Action).
    In the 1980s you started to hear, if Asians can succeed, why can’t blacks! (which preceded the actual roll back of Affirmative Action and Social Welfare programs).

    Then presto, that article in TIME magazine (Asian Whiz kids) came out in 1987. It wasn’t really a buzz word before then.

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  417. @ Grin

    Right, it got too big for its own good. There is a link to it under the Glossary and also in the right-hand column page under “Pages”. It is way out of date.

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  418. @ Pumpkin

    Thanks for the MHP link. She and I think a lot alike in some ways.

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  419. @Kiwi, to continue

    The mostly male Chinese laborers were seen as a threat to white America and more specifically, white women, thus the Yellow Peril.

    I disagree that this was the main fear associated with Yellow Peril. It was more about
    – Asian men taking jobs and livelihood away from whites (Asian men still found ways of finding work and making money even when whites were out of work and unemployed. This infuriated whites.)
    – An alien race slowly taking over America from within

    The white women thing was probably a side corollary. If you look at the cartoons and rhetoric from the late 19th and early 20th century, You would see how children from the Asian man / white women would be depicted as Alien-ish mongrels causing the white race to be assimilated into the Aliens.

    Asian men survived (and in some cases even prospered) where they elected livelihoods not seen as competition to white men. Hence you see
    – laundries
    – Chinese / Asian restaurants
    – (in the South) shopkeepers serving blacks, including sharecroppers and menial unskilled black labour

    The Chinese women brought along by Chinese men were often used as prostitutes due to the small numbers of females, thus the Asian prostitute stereotype.

    That was later changed by World War II, when Japan, an East Asian great power, was defeated by America.

    No, the wars in Asia cemented the ideas that Asian women were prostitutes. The only change was that instead of being prostitutes for Asian men, they were prostitutes for white men.

    My Aunts left Mississippi in the 1970s. The 2nd Aunt left first (early 70s) as her older children were reaching the age of dating and marrying, and their parents wanted them to date Chinese Americans. They went to California, opened up a store / restaurant there and sent their kids to university. My eldest Aunt left in the late 1970s – after all their kids left home and they decided to retire.

    My first cousin, the eldest son of my 2nd Aunt, was pressured into marrying a Chinese American women in the 1970s in Sacramento. They went back to Mississippi for several years to operate the grocery store before returning back to Sacramento. I met his wife in 1985, and she told me about her experience in Mississippi as a California-born Chinese American women. She told me that every white man she encountered regarded her as a prostitute / whore. It was different from where she grew up in Sacramento.

    But, I can also attest that the stereotype of Asian women as prostitutes was still quite strong in the 1970s. The Eurasian and Blasian children at that time were all treated as children of prostitutes. People who saw me assumed I was the child of a white male and Asian prostitute (when nothing could be further from the truth).

    For most white men, even well into the 1970s, an Asian women was not something you brought home to Mom.

    I don’t think this changed until several years after the Vietnam War ended. By that time, it was already 1980. The memory of the Asian brothels started to fade and replaced by the image of Asian American women who grew up in the suburbs with whites and started attending “their” universities.

    But there is still a lingering sense in the minds of white men that they are white saviours out to rescue Asian women from their sad life. The Suzy Wong stereotype has still survived in some form until today.

    Speaking of Suzy Wong, did you notice how Asian men are depicted in that movie?

    Like


  420. The anti-miscegenation laws forbidding interracial marriages between whites and Asians were mainly aimed at Asian men, which is why the Yellow Peril stereotype presented them as predators of white women.

    I agree that anti-miscegenation laws were enacted primarily to protect white women (although in the Loving case, the husband was white) but I disagree that the main stereotype of Yellow Peril was the depiction of Asian men as predators of white women. It was more of a control measure for Yellow Peril.

    Are you familiar with the case Naim v. Naim?
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naim_v._Naim)

    It was also the case in Virginia, but involved a Chinese American man marrying a white woman. Instead of going to Washington, DC to get married, they went to North Carolina. The appeal to the Supreme court was rejected.

    It took a white man married to a black women to repeal the anti-miscegenation laws.

    I remember in my early childhood – Asian men married to white women did not dare move to Virginia.

    This is why I think the Yellow Peril stereotype is directed more at Asian men while the Model Minority stereotype is directed more at Asian women.

    I am going to have to disagree with you that the Model Minority stereotype is directed at women. I think it is directed at both men and women. I disagree that it is a “feminine” thing.

    But, you might be right that the Yellow Peril is more directed towards men, but in particular, addressing the fear that white MEN have. It might partially explain why the exercise of the Model Minority stereotype seems to take a different form towards men and women. It might have something to do with how the Model minority theme meets and accommodates Yellow Peril.

    To control for Yellow Peril, Asians must be rendered powerless. Women can submit to white men. Men must be emasculated and kept out of positions by the Bamboo Ceiling.

    For some reason, Asian women marrying white men does not seem to enrage the fear of Yellow Peril (at least not anymore). The only way it could change now would be for their children to rise up and challenge their father’s white privilege and authority (a fear that their children, particular their sons would turn “Asian” on them). That doesn’t look like that will happen anytime soon.

    Like


  421. @Kiwi,

    Yes, the stereotype of Asian women as prostitutes was still strong in the 1970s, but faded after the end of the Vietnam war. If your Aunt hated the stereotype, she must have encountered it.

    And yes, there were many US military men stationed in Taiwan from 1950 – 1979. When I went to my first trip to Taiwan in 1980, I talked to many Taiwanese students, and they told that just a few years earlier, there were many American GIs all over the place, which intrigued them. It was perceived that the Americans were there to protect them from an attack by mainland China. But in the mind of the KMT leaders on Taiwan, they expected to recapture the mainland. There were still representatives from each of Mainland China’s provinces in the KMT govt on Taiwan.

    American GIs came without women, so they undoubtedly sought Taiwanese girls.

    However, by the time I got there, most GIs had left. You see, the US normalized relations with the PRC in 1979, and they closed the ROC embassy in DC and opened one for the PRC.

    In 1980, when I talked to many Taiwanese, you know what their favourite TV show was? Three’s Company starring John Ritter. The Donny & Marie Show with Donny and Marie Osmond was also very popular. I think the Mormon church made large inroads there in the 1970s. They all had seen Star Wars and Alien and Superman with Chris Reeves.

    You REALLY need to see some more media depiction of Asians and Asian men and Asian women with white men from the prior generation.

    Please see
    “The World of Suzie Wong”
    “Love is a Many Splendored Thing”
    “Flower Drum Song”

    and tell me how the white -Asian image thing works out.

    any other movie with James Shigeta, ie,
    “Walk Like A Dragon” where he played a Chinese man in the American Wild West
    “Bridge to the Sun”, where he played a Japanese diplomat married to a white American woman from Tennessee
    “The Crimson Kimono” where he develops a love interest with a white girl
    (He just passed away, by the way, a couple months ago. We should have had a post on him. He is the best example I can think of as the handsome leading Asian American man from the 1950s – 1970s)

    “Go For Broke” (1951)

    Finally, you must watch “Eat a Bowl of Tea” (1989). It was based on a story written by a Chinese American man in the early 60s based on life in the late 40s, unlike “Joy Luck Club” (1994) which was based on a story written by a Chinese American woman married to a white man.

    Have you seen “A Great Wall”? from the mid-80s?

    Like


  422. Have you seen “The Slanted Screen” (2009) about how Asian men are portrayed in Hollywood and the media.

    Here is the preview trailer
    (http://youtu.be/b6b9nI-5KJk)

    Like


  423. There were sex posts? 😀

    Like


  424. Oh yes, those were interesting. Maybe he’d accept a guest post from someone if he doesn’t have time/interest to do it?

    Like


  425. @ Kiwi

    This is similar to how black men are seen as rapists of white women. Blacks, similarly to Asians, are seen as parasites infesting America (aka white people). This is exemplified by the way whites talk of black pathologies like crime, poverty, and fatherlessness. Blacks are not seen as having pathologies. According to whites, blacks are a pathology. Blacks are a disease afflicting America that whites need to be rid of.

    Unlike blacks, however, Asians have Model Minority status and so are not seen solely as the Yellow Peril. This means that despite Asians and blacks both being cancers of white America, Asians have been brought under control. Thus, they are benign tumors in the country’s body, posing little threat to whites. Blacks, on the other hand, have gained considerable power relative to Asians and pose a bigger threat to whites. Thus, they are seen as malignant tumors.

    Rest assured, if whites were to ever succeed at cutting blacks out of America, Asians would be next. After all, whites do not have a long track record of tolerating any foreign entities infesting their country.

    Now that’s something I find interesting. Hopping on that train of thought, you could say that white America’s One True Fear™ is the so-called black “malignant tumors” metastasizing to the point at which they prove impossible to remove – like stage 4 cancer. Meanwhile, the Asian benign tumor sits at stage 0, or perhaps an easily containable and controllable stage 1.

    Like


  426. Summer nights, BBQ smoke, roller skates, pretty Black girls in cut-off shorts!

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn6X0nGnHSM)

    Can I get a witness???

    Like


  427. @Kiwi,
    Yeah, I was wondering what Elliot Rodger was about. He was not what I had in mind.

    What I mean more is something like
    – rallying against white men for having the attitude that they own Asian women, without feeling racial self-hatred (or succumbing to whites or Asians trying to force him to feel that way)
    – fighting for civil rights or equal opportunity in ways that might not benefit whites

    Sometimes I wonder about people like actor Ian Anthony Dale. He has a white father and Japanese American mother and grew up in suburban Minnesota, yet he is almost always typecast as an Asian American male in US TV and film. Without an Asian American father, I wonder how he gets his idea on how an Asian American male is supposed to be — from white male studio executives? He is always playing the token Asian male in a story written by, directed by, produced by and about the lives of white men. Would he feel the inclination to stand up to Asian male bashing, considering he has a white father?

    Like


  428. ^ M-h-m-m-h, I am not sure what you mean by “trust”. In what way?

    Anyhow, it seems that Asian women might have the ear of more white men than Asian men do. If one is to address Asian issues to whom should they be addressed.

    What I would like to see is for Asian Americans to wake up and see how brainwashed they became after learning white Anglo mythology.

    Actually, this doesn’t apply to just Asian Americans, but also blacks, Latinos, even whites.

    Like


  429. @Kiwi,

    So trusting a hapa means trusting him with your life. 😛

    Looks like he wouldn’t touch white men. He would kill only Asian, black and Hispanic men and also blonde young white women. Wonder if another Hapa should feel safe with him.

    Like


  430. @ Jefe:

    What I would like to see is for Asian Americans to wake up and see how brainwashed they became after learning white Anglo mythology.

    Your comment is interesting. I didn’t have extensive knowledge about Asian American/Asian Canadian history while growing up, but I managed, more or less, to avoid the brainwashing. The few Asians who were around me at the time is another story. I always wondered why I didn’t take this “white Anglo mythology” as gospel. I can chalk this up to my parents’ influence

    Actually, this doesn’t apply to just Asian Americans, but also blacks, Latinos, even whites.

    Agreed.

    Like


  431. @Kiwi

    I have a difficult time trusting mixed Asians with white parents,

    so, what do you mean? You trust mixed Asians more easily if they have mixed parents? (I am thinking of people like Mark Dacascos, both of whose parents are mixed multiracial. But he went and married a white women.)

    Like


  432. @ Mira:

    Mira

    Sorry to hear about the crisis. I hope everything’s fine now.

    Yeah, it’s going well. I hope it stays that way.

    I got my visa for 4 years, because this is how long the program lasts (though it depends on how fast you can perform your research and write your thesis). The funding is only for 4 years, lol. I chose Alberta because, well, this is where my supervisor is. When it comes to PhD studies, you don’t choose based on the institution or location, you choose based on the supervisor who has the same research interests as you. Since my research interest is somewhat specific for my discipline (anthropology), there are not that many of them around the world… And one happens to be in Alberta!

    Silly me! Of, course! Why didn’t I think of it?! Alberta is known for their rich sources of dinosaur bones!

    Yes, I know about the winter. We already had the first snow on September 8!!! I am kind of prepared, but for now, it’s pretty…. Much the same as back home? This is the thing that surprised me at most. I don’t have a feeling I am in a foreign country. Sure, the city is smaller than my homecity and people speak in English, but other than that, everything seems so familiar. I am waiting for some kind of a culture shock but it’s not coming.

    I’m glad you’re settling in okay. Just a FYI, the winters can be downright brutal. Idk how it is in Alberta, but I’m guessing it’s not as cold compared to my province or so I’ve been told by relatives who have visited there.

    Except for the fact people here really like pickup trucks and it’s polite to say “thank you” to the bus driver. Those are the only new things for me. Oh, and the sizes of food packages. They are enormous, one person can’t eat so much food in… a week? Though those are small differences and all in all, it all seems so familiar, in lack of a better word.

    Oh, sorry for the novel. Glad to see you here. 🙂

    It must be an Albertan thing, but I’m aware that the favoured transportation is a pickup truck. I think it has to do with the rugged terrain. Please correct me if I’m mistaken. As for the food packages, I suppose you can say it’s quite large. Have you been to America? From the ones I’ve seen, they seem smaller in comparison especially the huge food portions in restaurants!

    Like


  433. @jefe
    I want to know what is that he didn’t have that made him that way. The thing was he was too picky and probably hated every other girl because of hateful pscyho babble thoughts and conditioning. The truth is he didn’t appreciate the endless wealth he did have and was living under fucked up pretenses. There is nothing I like about most cultures that are too formal and have no ends to practicality which is probably how his parents brought him up.

    Like


  434. The thing about this day and era is that there is access to “modern” culture. You can look at each and everything and determine what you like and what works best for you. I fuckin’ hate the shit media and don’t take any influence from the garbage…..

    Like


  435. Police cameras are starting to show the reality:
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/cops-in-hot-water-after-videos-catch-them-shooting-beating-people/

    Look at the two videos in the article. The first one has a cop asking a black guy at a gas station for his ID. He (the black guy) very slowly and peacefully reaches into his car for it, and… BLAM! BLAM BLAM! Gets shot. NOBODY could mistake what he did for an aggressive gesture.

    The second video is a black woman getting beaten up by some cop. The woman clearly can’t defend herself, is lying on her back and just getting beat up. The second video is a few months old, it seems. The first one is brand new. The first one is of a cop shooting a black guy for very peacefully reaching into his car when asked for an ID. When shot, he still remains extremely subservient, lot’s of “sir” and stuff. Despite having been shot; when the pig asks if he’s been hit, he replies “I can’t feel my leg”.

    It’s sickening on such a huge level… The first video, the black guy did everything right, pretty much saying “yes, massa” to everything the pig said. Did it help him?

    What do you *bleeping* think?

    Like


  436. @ naishee:

    My gosh! My heart just stopped when that poor man was shot! I can’t believe the guy apologized to that POS cop. In no way did he provoke that officer. All this for a seatbelt violation?!?! Eff that!

    Like


  437. @TeddyBearChubs

    I want to know what is that he didn’t have that made him that way.

    I assume that you are talking about Elliot Rodger, not Kiwi. If so, probably should be continued on the Elliot Rodger thread.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/elliot-rodger/

    Anyhow, there is a lot that Elliot Rodger did not have. You are mistaking his material comforts for genuine satisfaction.

    Something he apparently never had – a race talk with either of his parents. But neither of his parents had any clue about how to teach him about navigating life in the USA as a multiracial person. Most figure something out on their own, but he couldn’t.

    Like


  438. @Kiwi,

    The problem I have with them is that they think they are experts on Asian or black culture and dictate to Asian and black Americans how they are supposed to act or think. Yet it seems like it is just a commodity for them.

    Randy got onto my case that I cannot make any comment about things Filipino as it is a culture that he knows “a lot” about but I knew zilch, despite that I go to the Philippines several times a year (just spent a month there earlier this year), had Filipino roommates and neighbors for many years, participated in a Filipino cultural and theatrical ensemble, have a Filipino American godmother (whose family is now like a surrogate family to me as my parents are deceased). Also, most of my father’s close buddies while I was growing up were Filipino American men. I also understand Tagalog and am trying to learn other Filipino dialects.

    I find him pretty clueless about Filipino and Chinese American history, yet talks down to me as if I know nothing about it.

    Then Randy brought in all that “Chinese privilege” stuff and thinks it is the same as white privilege in the USA, and also extends to the USA (which is what – Chinese American privilege?).
    If anything, I think I know the difference between Chinese and white privilege as it applies to both the USA and the Philippines. What he is most clueless about is what white privilege in the USA means.

    But, what was it that you were actually thinking about those commenters? I just think of them as using the corollaries to “Some of my best friends are black”, ie, my wife is Asian / black, therefore, I am not racist and I “intimately” know that culture (why? coz they sleep with someone)?

    Like


  439. Kiwi,

    Just saw this on CNN
    (us.cnn.com/2014/09/25/opinion/seeking-arrangement-ceo-on-love/index.html)

    An Asian American man started a dating website because he was failing at the dating game.

    Like


  440. Hey everyone! Did any of you see the TV show black-ish and what did you think of it?

    Like


  441. @sharinalr: It was my intention because i like the cast. Maybe i can catch it on Youtube or Apple TV. I was just to tired from work that evening. I also missed How To Get Away With Murder. Viola looks fierce.

    Like


  442. @ jefe:

    @Kiwi,

    The problem I have with them is that they think they are experts on Asian or black culture and dictate to Asian and black Americans how they are supposed to act or think. Yet it seems like it is just a commodity for them.

    Randy got onto my case that I cannot make any comment about things Filipino as it is a culture that he knows “a lot” about but I knew zilch, despite that I go to the Philippines several times a year (just spent a month there earlier this year), had Filipino roommates and neighbors for many years, participated in a Filipino cultural and theatrical ensemble, have a Filipino American godmother (whose family is now like a surrogate family to me as my parents are deceased). Also, most of my father’s close buddies while I was growing up were Filipino American men. I also understand Tagalog and am trying to learn other Filipino dialects.

    I find him pretty clueless about Filipino and Chinese American history, yet talks down to me as if I know nothing about it.

    I had a similar exchange with that person on here. I refer to him as that person because I refuse to acknowledge his name. He has always been condescending telling me about my Filipino culture simply because he married a a Filipino woman. The sheer nerve.

    Like


  443. @ Pumpkin

    Uh-oh. Okay, go ahead and email me.

    Like


  444. @Leigh,

    Unfortunately, “that person” is not the only one like that on this blog or in real life either.

    Like


  445. ^ That is why I don’t address them by their name. I have low regard for people who are patronizing so I don’t even bother to return respect. The saying “You get what you give” rings true here.

    Like


  446. I have such respect for AG Eric Holder he was in my opinion the best thing about the Obama administration. He was the voice for the POTUS he said the things Mr. Obama couldn’t say. Hope he is in good health and wish him well.

    Like


  447. Abagond, did you here about this case of the black police officer who shot his handcuffed suspect in the back while running?

    “In his first public defense of his actions, former District Heights, Md., police sergeant Johnnie Riley told the jury in his attempted murder trial it “slipped his mind” that the suspect he shot in the back was in handcuffs.”

    The suspect was arrested for driving a stolen motorcycle:

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/06/johnnie-riley-former-district-heights-cop-defends-controversial-shooting-in-court-103802.html

    Like


  448. @MB

    he said the things Mr. Obama couldn’t say.

    so you think that is why he left?

    Like


  449. @Kiwi,

    Something peculiar I noticed is that Randy and biff would get angry or upset whenever I commented on their Asiaphilia.

    But are you really surprised? Look how BR reacts when people challenge his understanding of “African diasporic culture” (not to mention his 3rd pillar sensibilities).
    It is all a variation of “Some of my best friends are black” theme.

    And all of them are really hooked on the perpetual foreigner doctrine. I am suspect of anyone who does that, even Asian Americans.

    @Leigh,
    They particular have disregard for males, if you noticed.

    Like


  450. @Mary Burrell

    I finally sat down to watch How to get away with murder. I love it so far. Blackish in the other hand hit really close to home for me. I love how it addressed the issue of “urban” and how people like Robin Thicke and Justin Timberlake are at the top of R&B and Kim Kardasian is the symbol for big butts.

    Like


  451. Just wondering if anyone can tell me how the civil disobedience protest in Hong Kong is being portrayed overseas.

    I was in New York when force was used on protestors at TianAnmen in 1989. Just cannot contemplate what will happen this time.

    There is a prediction that a new emigration wave (up to 20% of the population) may result if there is a crackdown.

    Like


  452. Leigh,

    I’m glad you’re settling in okay. Just a FYI, the winters can be downright brutal. Idk how it is in Alberta, but I’m guessing it’s not as cold compared to my province or so I’ve been told by relatives who have visited there.

    I don’t know; we’ll see! I just know that all people go “aaaah, brutal winter, lasts 9 months, horrible, horrible!” and it doesn’t really seem great, but as I understand, at least some of the stories are exaggerated. Not that it doesn’t snow in April/May, because it happens, but that it’s not THAT bad as people claim.

    It must be an Albertan thing, but I’m aware that the favoured transportation is a pickup truck. I think it has to do with the rugged terrain. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.

    I wouldn’t know, really. Pickup trucks are not really popular in Serbia. I don’t know if they are popular in other parts of Canada. In any case, that was one of surprises here.

    As for the food packages, I suppose you can say it’s quite large. Have you been to America? From the ones I’ve seen, they seem smaller in comparison especially the huge food portions in restaurants!

    No, I’ve never been to America. The thing is, people eat a lot in Serbia; and yet, the packages are smaller. I think the main difference is that in Serbia, we go grocery shopping every day, so I think the size of packages reflects that. In Canada, you only go shopping once per week or so, as I understand. At least this is what I started doing because there’s no way I can eat a package of anything in the same day.

    Like


  453. @jefe

    I have seen nor heard anything about it.

    Like


  454. @ Pumpkin

    I got your email. I will answer it tomorrow. Do not draw any conclusions from my not answering yet. I was out all day today.

    Like


  455. @Sharina,
    It is on the front page of CNN’s and MSNBC’s and NY times websites and a smaller headline of FOX. Was wondering if it was making the international news headline there and how they mentioned it.

    I remember that the Tiannamen square incident took over the national news in the USA back in 1989.

    Like


  456. @ Kiwi:

    I know your feelings about Asian women who say they understand what Asian men are going through yet date/marry white men. So what is your opinion of someone like Ming-Na Wen who married a white guy? They divorced, and then she married an Asian man. I have heard from other Asian men that these particular Asian women are “damaged goods”.Thoughts?

    Like


  457. Abagond, can you pleeeeeeeease pretty please do a post on the Hebrew Israelites? 🙂

    Like


  458. @Abagond: Thanks for using some of my suggestions for post.

    Like


  459. Here’s a new beautiful woman for you, Abagond: Nicole Beharie. She’s gorgeous! If you missed the second episode of Sleepy Hollow Season 2 you must watch it. Like, immediately. Nicole is PERFECT! She makes me proud. 🙂 Hey Nicole, if you’ve got a Google search alert on yourself take my advice and try acting in France. People (especially guys) love you here but they’ll love you even more over there.

    Like


  460. @ Patricia

    Oh yes, Nicole Beharie is beautiful!

    Like


  461. @ sharinalr

    I saw the first episode of “black-ish”. I was afraid it was going to be a cringefest, but it was pretty good. I think it was good at showing how Blacks are ordinary people, not walking (Afrocentric, gangsta, basketball) stereotypes. I like how they outed the word “urban”. I laughed when his children could not remember a White president. It is great that Larry Fishburne is in the show.

    Like


  462. I got a bad feeling about the whole indictment thing regarding that scumbag Darren Wilson. It’s likely going to turn out like John Crawford. Then what? 😦 RIP Mike Brown

    Like


  463. Abagond, have you considered starting a separate thread called:

    “QUESTIONS WHITE PEOPLE REFUSE TO ANSWER”

    ???

    Here is an example:

    1. What are you unwilling to do to replace the system of white supremacy with a system of justice?

    Not only do white people refuse to answer this question; they won’t reveal WHY they won’t answer the question.

    But not to worry, I can make it worse.

    Like


  464. @ Anne

    Thanks for the link. It was a nice read.

    @ Abagond

    “I was afraid it was going to be a cringefest, but it was pretty good.”—I was afraid they would completely whitewash the family. To some extent I feel they have but it is a start and so far it seems to have been named the number 1 comedy.

    Like


  465. Abagond

    Will you be going a post on the Ebola outbreak?

    Like


  466. @ Sharina

    Not sure about Ebola yet. Maybe.

    Like


  467. Abagond: What do you think about the Raven Symone craziness? Or is it crazy. Would like to know your thoughts.

    Like


  468. @ Mary

    I am doing a post on that now.

    Like


  469. @Abagond : Thanks. Do you remember the incredible Geoffrey Holder the 7Up Uncola man? He was so elegant. He passed away yesterday. I love his voice.

    Like


  470. Mary Burrell

    I saw it and rolled my eyes. I really think she did it for attention.

    Like


  471. @Sharina: I came to this conclusion as well. I wonder is she just trying to stay relevant? She hasn’t done anything in a while.

    Like


  472. @ Mary

    Oh yes, I remember him!

    Like


  473. Finland is a country that still has a problem with racial diversity and immigration in 2014. This is attested to the fact by this recent TV commercial for a candy company.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3TN8gt7T1Q)

    I don’t think that this would exist in the US with a stereotypically dressed, limited english speaking immigrant of a third world nation swaying his hips. But this type of advertising is fairly typical. The same company got rid of the their n***** kisses chocolate line only a few years ago out of public pressure.

    Like


  474. @Thwack

    You don’t view that art work as a bit disturbing?

    Like


  475. Not at all Sharina. I value art most for its ability and tendency to reveal truth; and you know how I feel about truth?

    Like


  476. Abagond, why no dedicated ebola thread?

    The racists are having a field day with it and I suggest you get some ink out there before they fully define the narrative so far away from the truth that black have no choice but to quote the racists.

    Like


  477. Perhaps this should go under suggestions, but please do an article on false equivalence. This is a favorite strategy not just of racist whites, but also black mouthpieces. Wikipedia has a solid definition of it.

    Thanks

    Like


  478. Looks like Obama wasn’t the 1st black president after all:

    EISENHOWER, THE BLACK JEW

    Scroll to the 11:00 minute mark

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URCKrqlRg1M)

    Like


  479. @ Kiwi

    It is not just Randy and Biff. Nearly all White Americans are driven by White guilt. It is the only way their behaviour makes sense to me. But it is something few of them ever come face to face with or will admit to. That is, like, the whole point of racism.

    Like


  480. @Thwack

    What you consider truth seems to be based on how much you can assume.

    Like


  481. Does your pimp know you are here?

    Like


  482. @Thwack

    Does yours? I hear he’s looking for you.

    Like


  483. @Anne

    I actually forgot it was Columbus day. Lol. At any rate nice link and very much on point.

    Like


  484. Its also moose season too so you and your ungulate friends better keep top eye open.

    Like


  485. @Abagond

    In light of all that is coming out, is hispanic heritage month on hold? Also have you or are you planning to do a thread on people of the Caribbean?

    Like


  486. @Abagond

    Also you can delete the comment in moderation. I think it is best not to entertain thacks insecurities and projections.

    Like


  487. @ Sharina

    Hispanic Heritage month is going to be extended till at least the end of this week.

    What do you mean by a Caribbean thread?

    Like


  488. @Kiwi

    I’ve never been to the East Coast

    Wow, really, then by all means go!

    Have you been to the Deep South?

    Like


  489. Hispanic Heritage month is going to be extended till at least the end of this week.

    yes, I have been quite keenly anticipating about posts for this month’s theme.

    Like


  490. @Abagond

    Something along the lines of the history and culture of those in the Caribbean. I know some in here mention it at times, but curious on details.

    Like


  491. Dear White People is finally coming to the theaters this month. I will have to treat myself. October 17th.

    Like


  492. Agabond,
    I second sharinalr’s request for a Caribbean thread. Maybe something on the politics or economy of the area.
    Kiwi,
    I’m just curious, if you met a white woman who was interested in dating you and expressed her interest in you, would you date her?

    Like


  493. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqqy-lWhoKw&sns=em?)
    Speaking of the Caribbean, came across this enlightened individual via FB. Sharing 🙂

    Like


  494. Kiwi,
    So how does someone prove to you that they aren’t racist? And how do you keep friends if you judge everyone as being equally bad? Doesn’t that keep you from getting to know people?

    Not knowing you personally, I can’t really give you advice but it seems to me that you have managed to set yourself up for disappointment by looking for the smallest needle in a very big haystack.

    Like


  495. Kiwi
    @ Anne

    Nobody is color-blind, though. That I know for a fact.
    ——————————————————————————————–

    What about blind people?

    Like


  496. @lifelearner

    That guy was way too much eye candy. Lol.

    Like


  497. Kiwi,

    I see. Well good luck with that.

    Like


  498. @ Kiwi:

    Kiwi,
    I’m just curious, if you met a white woman who was interested in dating you and expressed her interest in you, would you date her?

    So would you? Anne asked you a simple question and your answer was quite elaborate but you still didn’t answer the question. Yes or no.

    Like


  499. From VonDerrit Myers page:

    thwack said:

    buddhuu
    Patriarchy is an elitist, discriminatory system similar to racism in some ways.
    ————————————————————————————————-

    No patriarchy = no civilization

    Sorry, but that is the law of compensation. If you don’t allow men to own what they build, they ain’t gonna build anything; especially things like families and states.

    You can either support and practice patriarchy, or have or have your throat slit by people who do; while your women gladly spread their legs for the throat cutters.

    buddhuu is peddling a feminist wet dream; even women hate weak men.

    “nature keeps a dear school but the fool will learn in no other”

    You’re full of it and your arguments have no substance.

    People build plenty of stuff that they don’t own: charities and voluntary organisations do it all the time. In a different way, so do the wage slaves of capitalism. People work in auto factories all day long, but they don’t get to keep the cars.

    Why the fcuk should I care about building states? States are constructs that exist to protect the interests of the privileged.

    What is weak about feminism? What’s weak about a struggle for equality and freedom? No group of humans deserves privilege over any other. The societies we live within impose multiple systems of oppression and inequality – go look up “intersectionality” (or just pretend you’ve already heard of it).

    Weakness is burying one’s head in the sand and surrendering to oppression. Struggle for equality and freedom, whether racial, sexual, gender, economic or whatever is never weak.

    Being a sell-out traitor is weak.

    Like


  500. Kiwi said:

    […] As for your question, I used to have this strange fixation on white women due to the media, but I’ve changed as my life experiences dispelled the myth of white ideality. […]

    That’s interesting. As I’ve got older, and especially since I’ve become more socially and politcally aware, and aware of how idealised templates are sold to us, I’ve found that my perception of attractiveness has broadened very considerably. Not just racially, but also in terms of age, body shape, ability/disability, scarring…

    Although we may be conditioned by evolution to seek mates who display traits that hint at good chances for successful procreation, it seems clear to me that that, and conditioning by society and the media, can be overcome. What I haven’t figured out is whether that widening or horizons is learned as a result of enhanced awareness, or whether it’s just an older guy thing (I’m 54).

    (Hope you don’t mind me butting into your conversation.)

    Like


  501. Ew, my comment reads creepy.

    May I qualify it by saying that I’m happily married and no longer interested in experiencing new partners.

    Jeez, that’s probably just going to make it sound worse. I give up.

    Like


  502. @Sharina- Muchas Me gusta, 🙂

    Like


  503. I think for sex and dating, it seems women are more racist. Maybe it has something to do with some subconscious idea about (future potential) children. I think men are less picky about who they date and have sex with.

    For everything else (work, housing, public security, media, etc.) men might be more racist — ie, where men have to work, live or compete with other men, or control the racial hierarchy in society.

    Like


  504. ^ I think you can choose to take another view of the world.

    Think about the kind of family you want to have, the kind of social circle, and work on that. Join organizations whose social objectives align with yours. Go out and make a difference, not just lament about current social observations.

    Don’t waste any more time worrying about others’ dating habits.

    Asian American women really do have a severe psychological problem

    So why are you choosing to give yourself one too?

    Like


  505. @ Kiwi

    I have to 2nd Jefes advice and agree that you’ll find that dating becomes easy if not spontaneous when you’re dealing with someone who has a similar interest as you. You’re common beliefs & hobbies give you a foundation to build on & rids you of the sometimes nerve wrecking prospect of going up to someone you don’t know & striking up a conversation out of nowhere. Speaking from personal experience I always found this way much better because I was able to be friends and get to know the woman for as long as I wanted to before making a so-called move.

    As far as the IR issue goes my take is this; I see tons of IR couples around my way of all different parings but the one thing they have in common is they’re all very young. Under 25 mostly, under 28 at best. The generational gap is so pronounced its visible with the naked eye, this generation is the 1st that seems to be genuinely fond of one another for who they are. I’m not necessarily interested in anyone other than BW myself but I can honestly say that this lack of emphasis based on race & more so on character is pleasing to me because it tells me they’re looking for substance & at least trying to do away with past generations hostilities. You seem like you’re in this age group so I would simply say use this factor to your advantage, be as open to non-Asian women as you would to Asian. If you really are only interested in Asian women I respect that 100% just hang in there either way & don’t beat yourself up over it. Focus on what you have not what you don’t.

    Like


  506. Michael Dunn got life in prison for the murder of Jordan Davis.

    Like


  507. @ Mary Burrell:

    Thought he would. Every now and then a sacrificial lamb that they can point to in order to claim that POC get justice.

    If he’d been a cop it would have been different.

    Like


  508. @buddhuu: Exactly. What you say makes perfect sense. But i am shocked he got this punishment and i am sure he is shocked himself. Jordan Davis mother told Dunn she forgave him.

    Like


  509. @Kiwi

    If I dated a black woman, I would want one who prefers her own race and deeply respects black men.

    And they would want to date you because …?

    Like


  510. @ Jefe:

    And they would want to date you because …?

    Ahh, I see what you mean. If a BW preferred and respected BM then how would an AM come into the picture?

    Like


  511. @jefe,
    In response to your comment to Kiwi.
    I think a person can have a preference but still fall in love with someone who doesn’t fit that description. There would have to be another common bond but it definitely can happen. Perhaps what Kiwi is implying is that he admires women who love themselves enough to prefer their own culture rather than women who try to be someone they’re not.

    Like


  512. @Anne,

    Like you, I can try to 2nd guess Kiwi’s thinking, but I was just curious how he might see it.

    Of course I was the one that suggested to him to try to get less hung up on Asian women dating preferences and try to form bonds with people who share his similar interests, values and social objectives.

    Of course, he can fight to correct the Asian male / female interracial dating disparity (which I happen to support to), but I believe he can separate that movement from his own dating habits and preferences.

    Like


  513. I am quite sure that I understand what you meant also. 😛

    In fact, I was going to tell you that Anne seemed to know what I meant.

    But still you skirted the question.
    You can, as in Anne’s words, “admire women who love themselves enough to prefer their own culture rather than women who try to be someone they’re not.”
    Your reply completely skipped over my question. A black woman who “prefers her own race and deeply respects black men” will want to date you because … ?

    And, to echo previous observations, you also completely did not remark about the situation of white women who date Asian men. Would you also prefer a white woman who “prefers her own race and deeply respects white men.” Then I ask you again, she will want to date you because … ?

    Would you consider a (Eurasian) Hapa? a Blasian? If so, what is your requirement of her? And why would she want to date you?

    Maybe you can think it through a little more about what you mean. How do Asian men fit in the scenario you are contemplating. And if you have not figured that out, then it seems like you have tacitly joined your imagined bandwagon that has written Asian men out of the dating equation.

    I think you can envision other scenarios that fit your personal social agenda, in line with your values and attitudes. Then you can go after that and (pretty please) ignore the rest.

    You can address the interracial racial dating disparity by other means other than lamenting.
    It would be great if you did an Asian American studies course and do a research project on the credibility of Asian women married to white men who speak for the Asian community. Compare it to Asian men married to white women, and Asian men married to Asian women, Asian women married to Asian men, Asians married to blacks or Latinos and multiracial Asian men and women. You can include non-Asians married to Asians who think they “know” Asians.

    Which receives more attention from the media? How have their marriage and dating choices affected their credibility as Asian Americans.

    Then publish the results of your study.

    Do something active.

    You are flooding this blog with lamentations about the Asian – white male-female interracial disparity. Do something about it. And do something for yourself.

    Like


  514. @jefe,
    What you said…..my reason for asking my other question in the first place. But I think I got my answer without it being directly answered.

    Like


  515. please check out my video on vintage African people http://youtu.be/oQsetBu1mCQ?list=UURlHlltRjWFtkuwOhcy2UVw

    Like


  516. @Kiwi,

    You’re going to have to give multiracial people a break. That includes 90% of modern day African Americans, >90% of Native Americans, 90% of Latinos and by 2114, probably 90% of Asian Americans. It also includes about 30% of white people. You cannot expect each and every one of them to completely reject any part of their ancestry, including (or even especially) the white part. Otherwise you will hate the whole population.

    It seems that you would condemn Tiger woods not because he philanders simultaneously with multiple white women (which is a bit disgraceful to me), but because he prefers white women in the first place. But both of his parents are part white. Both are also part Chinese. He has more Asian than African ancestry. Who is he supposed to date to “prefer his own”? Eurasian Hapas? Blasians?

    I really think you should stop worrying about other people.

    I look at my parents – they got married for the wrong reasons. And race had something to do with it. Yet they did not resolve the racial problems and it caused other problems to surface. But what am I supposed to do? Condemn them? Dislike them? see them as disgraceful? Are any of those avenues going to give me a positive self-image?

    And you didn’t explain why any of them would want to date you. Not exactly. You said you wanted it to be a reason other than race. You know, I think most people want to date people for reasons other than race too. That is why I (and many other commenters) suggest that you go seek out like-minded people who share your interests, your values, and your social objectives.

    It looks like many of the Asian women you contact with tend to be the ones who exclusively like white men. OK, maybe 47% of them do. Why aren’t you seeking out the other 53%? Why do you worry about the rest?

    If you really want to do something about that 47%, then by all means take an active role. Be an activist. But don’t just sit and lament.

    You also did not answer (or perhaps misunderstood) my question about how Asian men fit in the scenario. I wasn’t asking about their racial dating preferences, I was asking how they fit in the scenario where “a black woman prefers her own race and deeply respects black men”.

    Like


  517. @Michelle

    It came up video not found for me.

    Like


  518. Kiwi said “I’ve never approached a girl before so I don’t even know how”…

    Wow. Just. Wow.

    Abagond,

    I know this is an open thread, but since the topic of Kiwi’s dating life and unhappiness that many Asian women around him are dating white guys keeps coming up (always brought up by Kiwi himself, interestingly enough), I am wondering whether it would be more efficient to create a new, separate post for that. It could be called “Kiwi’s dating dilemma” or something catchy like that. I know you already have a couple of posts that deal with Asian girls and white guys, but it doesn’t seem to be specific enough for Kiwi, since he brings up his dating troubles in comments to numerous posts. Just a thought.

    Like


  519. Um, no, Kiwi. That is a really stupid thing to say. For once, I have to agree with jefe’s statement.

    For most people, common values, interests, etc. are most important. Often, perhaps usually, these can be found within the same ethnic group. If I was just dating based on race, I would just date white women. Growing up, I wasn’t attracted to Asian women at all.. My wife also never dated any white guys before me and frequently tells me she has no special love for America, unlike many of her compatriots, but I’m sure she’s still “self-hating” to you.

    If I had the same values as I do now and was in the U.S. 50/100/200 years ago, it would probably be relatively easy to find an attractive. white girl who had traditional values (e.g., didn’t sleep with guys before marriage, believes the husband should be the head of the household, etc.), but now it’s very difficult.

    Anyway, it’s all starting to make sense now. You are an involuntary celibate in college with no clue how to interact with women. There is so much I could teach you, but you wouldn’t even listen to me. The truth isn’t politically correct. You just keep on being that kind, sensitive, individualistic guy you are with your politically correct ideology and pedestalization of women and see how far it gets you with them…

    Like


  520. Eh, I don’t see anything that needs to be deleted. It’s “open thread”, so can’t be off topic at least.

    Kiwi, it’s not about “hooking you up” with anyone (I wouldn’t marry the type of promiscuous girl you described either). It’s about improving yourself and realizing what women actually want (hint: watch what they do, don’t just listen to what they say). They want a guy who “just gets it”. Long term, if you want a decent girl for marriage, chances are much better outside of the U.S., but you can absolutely improve your dealings with U.S. girls.

    Pumpkin, I guarantee you your feeling sorry for Kiwi and telling me not to (verbally) beat him up is a bigger blow to his ego than anything I said to him.

    Like


  521. Kiwi
    @ thwack

    Blind people are racist, too.
    ———————————————————–
    How does a blind person PRACTICE racism?

    Like


  522. 11 year old white boy assassinates rare WHITE deer held sacred by native Americans:

    http://www.newsleader.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/21/boy-hunter-bags-rare-albino-deer/17652845/

    Like


  523. Pumpkin, while you are waiting, you might find this presentation on Pre-Colonial Central African History interesting:

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiJhzSaKeQ0)

    Due to the lack of written records, most of this presentations information is based on artwork; which is often a proxy for religion. Matter of fact, the arts of often more accurate than the written record because it reflects what people DO in contrast to what they SAY (they do).

    The presentation is also interesting for its description of how important white people take African culture at the same time they tell YOU there is no such thing…

    For instance, she describes why their cosmology would hold an “unusual” animal or being as sacred. To them, the white deer left its color in the “spirit world” and therefore is only partly in this world, it may be here performing a specific task or function… to sum up, it is considered to have a greater connection to the spirit world; and therefore should not be tampered with.

    I suspect the red man and the black man share this interpretation to some extent; with the white man wanting to kill it and mount it on has wall to satisfy his ego.

    Like


  524. @twack,

    Are trying to make a point with your discussion about the white deer? I’m surprised you haven’t commented on how the population of albino rhinos is now endangered. Or perhaps the rarity of the white lion. Where are you going with this?

    Like


  525. Also, I tried commenting on this earlier but it didn’t work. As a follow up on Kiwi’s and Jefe’s comments, a person can actually be mixed race (with European ancestry) and still be against white supremacy. Mixed people don’t need to get a break when it comes to fighting against what is wrong.

    Like


  526. @ Pumpkin

    Which traditional African religion? There must be tons of them. My inclination would be to do obeah or whatever it came from in Africa.

    Like


  527. Anne
    @twack,

    Are trying to make a point with your discussion about the white deer? I’m surprised you haven’t commented on how the population of albino rhinos is now endangered. Or perhaps the rarity of the white lion. Where are you going with this?
    ————————————————————————————————

    I am sharing some top shelf African history research with Pumpkin.

    Im going where it leads me.

    You got a problem with that?

    Like


  528. Twack,
    Carry on as you wish. I’ll site back and observe a master anthropologist in action.

    Like


  529. I meant to type “sit” not “site”.

    Like


  530. Why don’t you learn how to spell my name correctly?

    Like


  531. Hey Abagond as a Native New Yorker I wanted to know your take on Bill De Blasios mayoral tenure. He promised to stop profiling of blacks & latinos but arrests for things as petty as marijuana still continue in a systemic manner.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/20/new-york-marijuana-arrest_n_6016700.html

    I would figure as a white man with a black family he would be one of the few that gets it so to speak, at least that’s what he proposed when he had his son in his anti stop-and-frisk campaign commercials and spoke out against it. I’d like to say its maybe too early but looking back at history makes the cynic in me come back to the surface & more & more it’s starting to look like he’s just another gun for hire as are most politicians. If that’s the way it is it’s a shame. I had high hopes for him & if he really is faking the funk I wonder how he looks his family in the eye everyday.

    Like


  532. @ A

    I am not holding my breath on De Blasio. After all, Obama has a Black family too. The best thing De Blasio could do is give the Civilian Review Board some teeth that will outlast his time in office.

    Like


  533. Abagond

    The worst part about it is that blacks are the only group whose vote doesn’t have to be bought so it’s not like their will be some repercussion for his lack of follow through. Most politicians black or white are bought & paid for.

    Like


  534. @agabond,
    Can you delete an old post of mine?

    Like


  535. Pumpkin
    @ Thwack,

    you still hang out at heartiste? what brings you to abagond’s place lately?
    ———————————————————————————————–

    I NEVER hang out; hanging out is against my religion. Im always at work. When Im dead I will still be working.

    I will be working to make a nutritious breakfast for some dandelion.

    I am here searching for intelligent beings of humanoid distinction.

    Like


  536. @ Anne

    Which one?

    Like


  537. Folks I have a hankering for a halibut burrito from Burrito Boyz after a shopping stint. What say you?

    Like


  538. @ Ah yes, I know the history. Sad chapter. But as for the tour guide, you would think that a minority would know better.

    Like


  539. King

    “But as for the tour guide, you would think that a minority would know better.”—You would think, but not when they are trying to be acceptable to white people.

    Like


  540. @ sharinalr:

    King

    “But as for the tour guide, you would think that a minority would know better.”—You would think, but not when they are trying to be acceptable to white people.

    I watched the video clip. I can’t believe some of these tourists (I’m assuming white people) even applauded. Actually, no, I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Like


  541. Were most of the tourists Americans or foreigners (ie, Europeans)?

    There were no Asians in the tour group? Unusual for SF unless it was a European group (or a group from North Dakota or something).

    Like


  542. Did anyone watch the video of Mark Zuckerberg’s interview / Q&A at Tsinghua university in Beijing? He delivered it entirely in Mandarin!

    Of course, his Mandarin was barely comprehensible, full of wrong intonation, poor enunciation and grammatical errors, but you can still understand most of it. At least enough to find it charming.

    He claims that he learned it to talk to his wife’s relatives (although I suspect her grandparents more likely speak a Cantonese dialect rather than Mandarin), but one cannot help but think that it is a business move, given that Facebook is blocked in China (although the lion share of the world’s internet users are there).

    For me, I long for the day when the vast majority of Americans are multilingual. This is a grave educational failing in the USA which still places a gross social stigma on multilingualism. I was wondering how this (Mark Zuckerberg’s interview in Beijing) was portrayed in the USA, and if there is any chance that it might be used as an example for other millenials in the USA to join the bandwagon.

    I was impressed when Kevin Rudd of Australia did media interviews and speeches entirely in Mandarin. He is much better than Jon Huntsmann, more eloquent and articulate. I would love to see the president of the United States be able to give speeches / do interviews in Mandarin Chinese / Spanish /French / Arabic and Russian (or the main languages of the UN and / or in the main languages of the USA). It would make the USA and Americans in general appear more approachable and less haughty. Why is it depicted as being un-American?

    Like


  543. Kiwi,

    My statement wasn’t about their dating prospects. I really doubt that Kevin Rudd and Jon Huntsman held interviews in Mandarin to improve their dating prospects with Asian women.

    And it wasn’t about how white men get ogles from some for speaking fractured Mandarin, or about how Asian men get mocked in Ching Chong even when they speak perfect English or about their prospects in dating Asian women.

    Please don’t make my comment about that.

    My point was about the image and ability of Americans in general to be multilingual. By Americans, I mean all Americans and both men and women.

    Like


  544. Not by me.

    I would not assassinate Obama for speaking Arabic and I would not at all be charmed or impressed by any white person who speaks Asian languages.

    I am impressed or at least charmed when I meet people who can speak more than 5 or 6 languages, regardless of their racial background.

    I would like it if Obama could speak Chinese, Spanish and Arabic and more fluent Bahasa Indonesia too.

    Like


  545. and my point was not about Kevin Rudd as a white man.

    It was more about wishing that US (that means AMERICAN, regardless of race or gender) leaders and representatives could speak good Mandarin (as well as Spanish, French, Arabic, Russian, etc.) That includes people like Gary Locke, who could not.

    They could take a cue from Kevin Rudd (a non-American).

    If my comment is unclear, please ask me to clarify, but please do not make it about something it is not (eg, about dating habits of Asian women).

    Like


  546. Kiwi
    @ jefe An Asian American guy, however, can speak perfect English and even then, a large portion of non-Asian and Asian women would never date him.
    ———————————————————————————————-

    Do they even lift?

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs)

    Like


  547. @agabond,
    The one on this thread from back on August 15th.

    Like


  548. @ Anne

    Comment removed. If it was not the one you meant, please let me know, the sooner the better.

    Like


  549. @sharinalr,
    Amazing. Where are the resident race realists to give us their analysis of why supposedly peaceful people would destroy a town because of pumpkins?

    Like


  550. Kiwi
    @ thwack

    It has everything to do with white skin being more valuable than yellow skin in a white racist society. Everybody knows it and women know it especially.
    ———————————————————————————————

    Ok, but I hope you are not blaming your women for doing what nature has hard wired them to do? Its important not to project masculine virtues like integrity and fidelity… onto them. ALL females are hypergamous; don’t hate the players, hate the game.

    Like


  551. @ Jefe:

    jefe

    Were most of the tourists Americans or foreigners (ie, Europeans)?

    There were no Asians in the tour group? Unusual for SF unless it was a European group (or a group from North Dakota or something).

    Idk about the kind of tourists, but from what I can determine, there were quite a few white people on the tour bus. Btw, here’s the link.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eMNeMOTwdg)

    Like


  552. @ sharinalr:

    It is official. With skin bleaching and now changing eye color. Not to mention the guy who wanted to be asian. People can simply pay to be another race.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmadamenoire.com%2F482431%2Ftameka-tiny-harris-permanently-changes-eye-color-ice-gray%2F&ei=9KxNVKmjJdHKgwSS7oHwAg&usg=AFQjCNFV3mGAUrsSsbaT5t3UJB1b_B0nBw&sig2=JdCbtuXs8LTx64vOWheiOA&bvm=bv.77880786,d.eXY

    Omg, why? I saw this procedure on Youtube and it made me wince, *shivers*

    Not for the faint of heart.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFxE_FKIxbY)

    Like


  553. Anne

    I doubt they will bother to show up or mention it. Just like that riot over a surf competition. When I saw them rioting over pumpkins I could only think “what the f*ck!”

    @Kiwi

    I have no doubt of it. Probably more situation that are hidden in regards to white riots.

    @Leigh

    I was not aware it was even possible.

    Like


  554. Kiwi
    @ thwack

    Well, I don’t think black women are like that. In that sense, black men are lucky. They can pretty much take black women’s loyalty for granted.
    ———————————————————————————————–

    Kiwi, black women ARE like that.

    Why?

    Because they are FEMALE; God made them that way; They are no different than Asian women and would drop us in a hot minute if the white man would take them. Wake up bro and stop letting women define your worth.

    God made us better than them; you need to act like it.

    Like


  555. @ Kiwi:

    It’s very sad to walk into a cafe and see many of the handful of Asian women with their hair dyed a lighter color while the vast majority of the women, all white, have no hair dye at all. It becomes very clear which race of women is the standard of beauty.

    How do you know this? Who’s to say white women don’t dye their hair? I’ve known plenty of white acquaintances who dye their hair all the time. In fact, these white acquaintances aren’t even naturally blonde. One has been a dyed blonde for so long, she even forgot she was born brunette! I will come out and say I have dyed my hair lighter colours including caramel and ash blonde as well as brown and black. I haven’t dyed my hair so light in ages, though. I love to experiment and dyeing my hair isn’t necessarily about white standards. I just enjoy change. That’s it.

    Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be an Asian female. I know you would face sexism, but the racism would likely not be as bad. I wonder which is worse: being an Asian male or Asian female. At least for Asian women, they have the option of marrying white men to have a better life.

    Not necessarily. I know some Asian women who married white men and their husbands were clearly losers in the game of life. One of my husband’s aunt married a white guy and he tells me all the time his aunt complains about her lazy, white husband.

    Like


  556. Oh, and when I say I dyed my hair black (thought it’s my natural colour), I mean, dyeing it a blue black or eggplant black.

    Like


  557. Many women dye their hair a lighter color when they get older because it makes gray hairs more difficult to see.

    Like


  558. Kiwi
    @ leigh204

    My youngest relatives are completely white by appearance. They will have no sense of being Asian or ever being discrimated against as one.
    ————————————————————————————————

    This is why I interact with every white person NOW as if they have a nonwhite parent; Im not waiting for your relations to “test drive” their racism on me. It makes it much more difficult for a white person to PRACTICE racism when you imagine them having a non white parent because you don’t allow them to harm you the way you would allow a white person to.

    Its funny how that works isn’t it?

    Like


  559. @ Kiwi

    What is the typical hair color that these Asian women dye their hair? Have you ever seen an asian go full blonde or usually close to their original hair color?

    Like


  560. I think it disgusting that people are dressing up as Ray Rice and Janae complete with a black eye. Making fun of domestic violence is just sick. Something is very wrong with these people engaging in this disgusting behavior.

    Like


  561. @Mary

    I saw that as well. I then begin to wonder how they would feel if my husband and I dressed as OJ and Nicole.

    Like


  562. @ Pumpkin

    I would not do it, especially if you feel so down.

    Like


  563. pumpkin
    @ Thwack,

    you need to go back to heartiste hang out.
    —————————————————————————

    Didn’t I already tell you I don’t “hang out?”

    “hanging out” is the worst thing a black person can do in a system of racism white supremacy. The prisons and cemeteries are full of black people who were “just hanging out.”

    Maybe you should consider adopting a constructive agenda? All your hanging out is making you null and void.

    Like


  564. pumpkin
    @ kiwi,

    “I see lots of black guys dating non-black women, though, so I sometimes wonder whether they still care about black women or are just trying to distance themselves from their own race.
    ————————————————————————————————

    Next time you see one, why don’t you ask him this question instead of “wondering” about it?

    Like


  565. @ Sharina

    I had heard about the Pumpkin Fest riot. Thanks for the link!

    Like


  566. @ Kiwi

    The vast majority of BM are with BW. Don’t allow media propaganda or the fact that you may be in an interracial hotspot blind you to that. The “black men abandon black women” trope is an age old myth used by our detractors to try & scapegoat BM for something. It goes right along with the “black men are on the down-low” “black men are all deadbeat dads” “black men are violent” & “black men are broke & lazy bums” myths as well. You’ll usually see a white supremacist or someone who calls themselves a feminist spouting off this nonsense like company lines knowing good & well it doesn’t & has never applied to BM en masse.

    89% of married BM are married to BW. Who you’re married to was obviously who you dated at one point so its safe to say that the majority are dating BW as well with likely increases in IR amongst younger generations but that’s true of younger generations as a whole. Hell I had a friend who was invited to a Mexican/Indian wedding last summer no word of a lie. Younger people are pairing up in all different racial combinations with no real care or worries, can’t critique BM for doing something and then say nothing of the myriad of others who do the same.

    If you do truly question whether BM don’t want BW just remember the aforementioned stats & ask yourself when did 1 out of 10 matter more than 9 out of 10

    Like


  567. No.

    But I would teach you the correct way to earn a spanking.

    ASKING to be spanked is like trying to tickle yourself; it doesn’t work.

    Like


  568. ASKING to be spanked is like trying to tickle yourself; it doesn’t work.

    I am double jointed. Too bad I don’t like such perversions!

    Like


  569. I could make you like that one and all the others you are ignorant of.

    Like


  570. Kiwi

    I did not see where you said blonde. My bad. I can say I am in complete shock mode.

    Like


  571. A friend of mine just posted that she parked her bus in Staten Island and woke up to it plastered with graffiti. The graffiti reads…”fuck blacks”. Smh

    Like


  572. You earn a spanking by practicing deliberate disobedience/annoyance of a playful nature without using words; just keep doing it, and smile when you do it but don’t say anything,

    just keep it up…

    Like


  573. I watched Django Unchained last night. I don’t like Quentin Tarantino, but I gotta admit the film had a rather…cathartic…effect on me. Still didn’t enjoy the idea of a “white savior” having to bust out Django to get the whole ball rolling, but I guess we’re still not quite ready for a post-Amistad “slave revolt” flick that doesn’t sugar-coat anything for delicate white sensibilities.

    @ sharina

    A friend of mine just posted that she parked her bus in Staten Island and woke up to it plastered with graffiti. The graffiti reads…”fuck blacks”. Smh

    Shameful. I presume it’s either bored teenagers looking to stir some sh*t or grown a**holes looking to stir some shit.

    Like


  574. @Sharinalr: Just saw an episode of “Blackiish” the Halloween prankster episode it was hilarious. I will be watching from now on. i like it.

    Like


  575. @Mack Lyons

    I watched Django Unchained last night

    How did you feel about the stereotyped Uncle Tom character? To me he was a bit over the top, even to the way he dressed and styled his hair.

    Agree that it is a white savior movie and would fail the Bechdel test for race.

    Like


  576. @jefe

    How did you feel about the stereotyped Uncle Tom character? To me he was a bit over the top, even to the way he dressed and styled his hair.

    Indeed.

    It also gave me an idea of what a real-life production of the Boondocks cartoon would look like, in part.

    Like


  577. @ Mack Lyons

    I never thought about it that way but the Boondocks comparison is actually pretty spot on. It’s a shame Aaron McGruder sold out and allowed Cartoon Network to do the recent 4th season without him. An admittedly flawed but razor sharp satire is now just the Coondocks.

    Like


  578. It’s a shame Aaron McGruder sold out and allowed Cartoon Network to do the recent 4th season without him.
    ————————————————————————————–

    Not really. He sold the franchise at its height, he had a good run and it was pretty clear he was not going to EVER take on the Jews; so I think it was a wise decision.

    Good for him.

    Like


  579. Thwack

    I agree he never touched on Jewish media empires specifically but honestly the critiques of white America & racism were still spot on & often hilarious to boot. In that regard I’d say he did about as much as he could. Sometimes you can’t give people the entire story but just implying enough can put them on the right path to the truth.

    Issue I have with McGruder is that CN couldn’t go into production of a 4th season without him as owner of the trademark giving them the green light. Rumors start circling that they wanted him to coon the show up a bit or leave a la Dave Chappelle. He allows them to do the 4th season anyway and ends up with a new show on the same network? It’s obvious he sold his baby in order to continue his career instead of just ending the show & bowing out which would have been the respectable thing to do. The guys talented, it’s not like he wouldn’t have found work elsewhere so for that I can’t give him a pass.

    Like


  580. Issue I have with McGruder is that CN couldn’t go into production of a 4th season without him as owner of the trademark giving them the green light. Rumors start circling that they wanted him to coon the show up a bit or leave a la Dave Chappelle. He allows them to do the 4th season anyway and ends up with a new show on the same network? It’s obvious he sold his baby in order to continue his career instead of just ending the show & bowing out which would have been the respectable thing to do. The guys talented, it’s not like he wouldn’t have found work elsewhere so for that I can’t give him a pass.
    ———————————————————————————————

    Its not that simple. Every artist who achieves mass commercial appeal faces the same paradox. Finance does not want the art anymore, they want a baser more bombastic, cruder, simpler UGLIER version of it; Chappelle and McGruder are not the only victims of this phenomenon.

    Musicians know this well. Finance does not want you to grow as an artist, they want the same stuff that worked last time. Jimi Hendrix got fed up with drunk, stoned white people wanting him to play guitar between his legs, behind his back… super guitar cock dancing monkey routine… Its infuriating. In contrast, Sting is an example of a musician who successfully escaped the artistic “straight jacket” that is finance when he out grew the Police and went solo; or maybe he was allowed to do it because he is white?

    Their job may be to make us laugh and happy; but the entertainment world is ugly and brutal.

    It may seem like McGruder had power but its an illusion because its only the talent. The finance power controls EVERYTHING ELSE which is a lot. Distribution, marketing, merchandising… Its a CARTEL in every sense of the word. McGruder knows it and knows he can’t talk about it; not even using cartoon characters.

    Its the missing Boondocks episode that will never be made.

    I ain’t mad at him, he took cartoons to another level.

    Don’t hate the player; hate the game.

    Like


  581. @Abagond: Today is Day of The Dead Celebration in most Latin/Hispanic cultures. This just looks like such a cool celebration.

    Like


  582. @ Leigh

    Just started looking at Amaya today and the first two episodes made me so mad. Love it though.

    Like


  583. Just saw on ESPN there was a trackside fight at a NASCAR race. Waiting to see if anyone in the media or online will call them thugs or if its still a term reserved for black athletes who show the slightest bit of emotion.

    Like


  584. Thanks for catching that A.

    I might wanna use it in the next salvo of metal I send down range.

    Like


  585. Love, love, love Cynthia Erivo’s voice!

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKSUvjcm8XE)

    Like


  586. So-called comedian Artie Lange tweets bullsh!t racist rape fantasy of ESPN host Cari Champion

    http://www.alternet.org/media/white-comedian-thinks-tweeting-slavery-inspired-rape-fantasies-about-black-women-funny?page=0%2C1

    Racism is a disease

    Like


  587. Abagond, have you considered doing a post on Mia Love?

    She has an interesting back story and was just elected to congress from Utah.

    There aren’t many conservative black women and they don’t tend to be interested in showing the flag in the back yard of the enemy….

    I think this nation is ripe for a “conservative Oprah”; I suspect such a woman
    would prove very popular and influential.

    Like


  588. Mia is your kind of woman, thwack!

    Like


  589. A post on Mia Love might be interesting

    Like


  590. Abagond, like commenter A posted did you read about that racist boo-boo bag Artie Lange about the ESP commentator?

    Like


  591. @A: That Artie Lange is a filthy pig for sure.

    Like


  592. Herneith
    Mia is your kind of woman, thwack!
    ————————————————————–

    Probably.

    Don’t be fooled by those conservative women. Underneath that smart outfit she probably has on black lace underwear complete with garter… probably quite the potty mouth too.

    Would bang.

    Like


  593. Counter racist test:

    During a group discussion of “attractiveness”, a white male stands up and says:

    There are four dividing lines in human physical attractiveness:

    1. Dark skin vs light skin
    2. Kinky hair vs silky hair
    3. Aboriginal face vs northern face

    As to item three, it may be the biggest dividing line, and one least recognized. The terminology is something I made up.

    Run a straight line from the tip of the nose to the tip of the chin. If the lips are behind that line or barely touch it, you have a northern profile. It means that your maxilla are recessed and your chin is more developed. But if the lips, and especially the teeth break that line, you have an aboriginal face: projecting maxilla and recessed chin.

    ———————————————————————————————–

    What is your BEST counter racist response?

    (hint– it involves asking a question)

    Like


  594. It sure got quiet in here?

    Like


  595. Surly one of our resident Intellectual juggernauts such as Rayful Waller or Mack Lyons has a response?

    No?

    George Ryder?

    Fred Flintstone?

    Somebody?

    Like


  596. Lawanda Page?

    Like


  597. Thwack

    I am guessing you were bored yesterday?

    “Intellectual” and George Ryder and Fred Flintstone in the same sentence is just plain hilarious.

    Like


  598. The price of wisdom is regret.

    Like


  599. @Sharina,

    What is more hilarious for me is the expectation of an intellectual response to any of those comments.

    Like


  600. Black people are the worlds greatest spectators.

    Like


  601. @Thwack

    Yet you were in here talking to yourself. Lol

    Like


  602. @ Jefe

    Funny yet sad as well. I mean look to what lengths he went to for attention. It was not only fitting that he was ignored, but likely ignored by people who saw the notifications and still just did not respond(me being one of them). Now that is absolutely hilarious.

    Like


  603. sharinalr
    @Thwack

    Yet you were in here talking to yourself. Lol
    —————————————————————————————-

    I asked a question.

    Everything you have today started with some man asking a question; art, science, religion, medicine, architecture, farming… it all started with a man asking a question; and that man was probably black; and that black man didn’t allow the foolish babbling of black women to retard him from asking questions.

    When men seek to establish, expand, maintain and refine communication with that which created them; are they “talking to themselves?”

    Like


  604. thwack

    See that is where you’re wrong. Everything today did not start with a man asking a question? You seem to believe that people and things revolve around you. Which is why you went on a seek attention/question rampage.

    “that black man didn’t allow the foolish babbling of black women to retard him from asking questions.”—There was no black women “babbling” to retard said black mans questions because said black man was talking to himself.

    “When men seek to establish, expand, maintain and refine communication with that which created them; are they “talking to themselves?””—Oh yes! You most certainly were talking to yourself and it stands as I said above. I’m actually only surprised that George did no because he seeks any mode of attention, but unless you can point to someone responding to you that very moment then you were in all honesty talking to yourself.

    At any rate I am off. Have a good day. 🙂

    Like


  605. sharinalr
    unless you can point to someone responding to you that very moment then you were in all honesty talking to yourself.
    ———————————————————————————————-
    Why are the least attractive women the most generous displaying their ignorance and apathy?

    Indeed she must dwell in the 9th layer of hell between the sodomites and the usurers; for like them, she makes the natural unnatural, and the unnatural natural.

    A hideous beast indeed.

    Like


  606. @Thwack

    “Why are the least attractive women the most generous displaying their ignorance and apathy?”—hmmm… perhaps in your unnatural amount of free time you can explain to us all why you, as an unattractive “woman” (man lacking testicles), loves to display your ignorance and really seems pleased with yourself to do so.

    Go head I’m curious and I already know you can’t help yourself. 🙂

    Like


  607. Hey Sharina,

    I got an e-mail from Samson asking if you were available?

    Something about borrowing your jawbone to slay a thousand Philistines?

    Like


  608. @Thwack

    While deflection and lewd behavior is a talent of yours, it speaks a certain level of volumes on how you avoid truth.

    Perhaps your friend Samson can help you find your missing testes.

    Like


  609. My DNA dripping from your chin speaks volumes about your behavior; well that and your ashy knees (that you keep concealed with that rug)

    Like


  610. @Thwack

    Those sexual fantasies you keep having about my avatar are….pretty much a sign of your instability. Though it is obvious the talking to yourself already sealed that deal. Your post pretty much reeks of a “man” who has either never been laid or has been denied it for a long time.

    At any rate being lewd does not change simple truths here. You seek too much attention like a throw away child desperate for the slight bit of acknowledgement. Even if said attention makes you look ignorant, you are happy to do it because you are lonely and likely bitter that others do not share your fated misery.

    I have given you some time today, but rest assured I seek for it not to be this much again.

    Like


  611. Take note everyone, of how much time and energy this black woman will spend arguing with a man; when she will invest NONE in learning something new or exploring natural philosophy?

    Think about it?

    Did Sharina ask a single question or attempt to answer the counter racism scenario I offered?

    No; but she’s gonna attack and argue all night and day over nothing just to prove how hateful and nasty she is.

    This is why I can’t blame brothers who choose non black women; too many black women are just like Sharina, ignorant and apathetic; not to mention, loud, rude and just plain stupid.

    Ladies?

    Please don’t let your daughters grow up to be like Sharina; stupid, loud and malicious is no way to go thru life.

    Like


  612. @thwack

    Whose arguing with you? I simply pointed out a fact. Like now how you are trying your best to call me every name in the book to deflect from the fact that you simply are ignorant, delusional, and an attention whore. I really did not need to point that out because most have already figured that out.

    If calling me all types of names will give you an ounce of pride in yourself then so be it, but I promise you I never get mad at lies and desperate attempts by a “man” with no testes. 🙂

    Like


  613. @ Leigh

    I finally finished looking at Amaya. The ending was a bit sad in that Bagani and Amaya was not together for a long time before they reunited. Lamitan just made me plain angry. I eventually fell in love with Marikit. I love her name so much. Overall loved it and loved that it had a historical flare to it.

    Like


  614. @King

    Upon initially reading that article I did not know how to respond. I didn’t know whether to laugh or just smh. I personally think the article puts too much of the “booty” influence on recent pop culture. Women have been wanting more “booty” for sometime now. I wager that shows like “How to get away with Murder” and “Scandal” are equal culprits in the booty phase. It features power women with nice backsides and outfits that compliment them.

    One thing that comes to mind with the booty pads thing is when these girls get that special guy home and he reaches around to touch that nice “booty” and realizes it never existed.

    Like


  615. Since I received no CONSTRUCTIVE responses to the counter racism question I posted, I will demonstrate the best response I could come up with.

    Lets review:

    During a group discussion of “attractiveness”, a white male stands up and says:

    There are four dividing lines in human physical attractiveness:

    1. Dark skin vs light skin
    2. Kinky hair vs silky hair
    3. Aboriginal face vs northern face
    —————————————————————————————

    The counter racism technique is very simple. You stand up, look the white person in the eye and ask; “which one of the characteristics you list qualifies a person for mistreatment and/or abuse?

    Then you let them answer.

    That is, if they will?

    Ive used this technique several time and it always shuts down the racist suspect. They refuse to respond.

    Does anyone know why?

    Like


  616. If this seems counterintuitive to you, its only a reflection of the depth of your mis-education or your “ni66er training” as it were. There is no rational justification for mistreatment and/or abuse; and white people know this; maybe you don’t, but they do.

    Ask Michael Vick?

    This is why very often when a white person is trying to make a point about race I tell them, “look man, wake me up when you get to the part that justifies mistreating and/or abusing people.”

    A key strategy of the racists is to make you THINK they did without them actually doing it. They need your assumption because they know they can’t logically, rationally make the case themselves.

    The key to avoiding assumptions is to ask questions. This includes asking YOURSELF and/or what created you. Will some ignorant person accuse you of “talking to yourself?”

    Maybe; but that just raises another question such as how they became so stupid and ignorant?

    Like


  617. Does anyone know why?

    They don’t want to be called racist.

    Like


  618. “that just raises another question such as how they became so stupid and ignorant?”—Or it could just raise the question of whether or not you are taking your medicine. *shrugs*

    Like


  619. Thats close Herneith; but the answer is more fundamental because it even applies to you and I.

    Nobody wants to be seen as unjust.

    Unjust people don’t trust unjust people.

    Even people too powerful to be punished don’t want to be seen as unjust.

    Nobody wants to be seen as unjust; thats why we practice deceit.

    I have not committed sin.
    I have not committed robbery with violence.
    I have not stolen.
    I have not slain men or women.
    I have not stolen food.
    I have not swindled offerings.
    I have not stolen from God/Goddess.
    I have not told lies.
    I have not carried away food.
    I have not cursed.
    I have not closed my ears to truth.
    I have not committed adultery.
    I have not made anyone cry.
    I have not felt sorrow without reason.
    I have not assaulted anyone.
    I am not deceitful.
    I have not stolen anyone’s land.
    I have not been an eavesdropper.
    I have not falsely accused anyone.
    I have not been angry without reason.
    I have not seduced anyone’s wife.
    I have not polluted myself.
    I have not terrorized anyone.
    I have not disobeyed the Law.
    I have not been exclusively angry.
    I have not cursed God/Goddess.
    I have not behaved with violence.
    I have not caused disruption of peace.
    I have not acted hastily or without thought.
    I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern.
    I have not exaggerated my words when speaking.
    I have not worked evil.
    I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds.
    I have not polluted the water.
    I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly.
    I have not cursed anyone in thought, word or deeds.
    I have not placed myself on a pedestal.
    I have not stolen what belongs to God/Goddess.
    I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased.
    I have not taken food from a child.
    I have not acted with insolence.
    I have not destroyed property belonging to God/Goddess

    Like


  620. This F.B.I. letter to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. shows exactly how far the organization was willing to go to destroy him:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/what-an-uncensored-letter-to-mlk-reveals.html?_r=2

    Like


  621. What are you going to do about it?

    Like


  622. @Mack Lyons (@DDSSBlog)

    Do you think it was actually a black person who wrote it or simple a white conspirator?

    Like


  623. @ Abagond

    With you doing a post on Breaking Bad , I am a bit surprised you did not do one on Sons of Anarchy. Have you watched it? or is it just not your taste?

    Like


  624. Do you think it was actually a black person who wrote it or simple a white conspirator?

    Quite possibly the latter. It just rings out “white guy impersonating black guy espousing suspiciously white-oriented opinions” – done not-at-all convincingly, to make matters worse.

    Like


  625. Mack Lyons (@DDSSBlog)

    I agree. It did sound as if it was more someone white than of a black person. I also believe it had to be someone high up as I doubt the FBI would have it had it not been. I wonder if there are actually more pages to it than just that one.

    Like


  626. @Sondis

    Article was sad but very true. Worst part of reading that is all the training non-white parents especially black parents have to teach their children just to get by. In the end even that may not be enough.

    Like


  627. That article about being financially well off being a protection against racism was laughable. Why so naive? The more well off one gets the more color-blind racism prevails. There needs to be a handbook how to parent in a racist society. Abagond, are you up for it? 😉

    Like


  628. Would you rather be an inmate who gets to pick up trash on the side of the hwy?

    or one kept in solitary confinement?

    Like


  629. @kiwi

    I thought you would catch that. 😉

    I was surprised that Prince Naveen was even cast as black. I kind of always thought he was like East Indian or something like that.

    “That’s not likely to be a coincidence”—Upon first glance it would appear that way, but careful watching it seems to indicate a bit about how the writer saw each character as it coincided with their race. The white men were all control freaks or really dumb.

    Like


  630. @Kiwi

    I ran across this video and wondered if you can give your take on how true you feel this is based on your experience.
    NorCal Asians VS. SoCal Asians:

    (http://youtu.be/4fmVdvkzV8Y)

    Like


  631. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30069240)

    Seems that not everyone feels the same way about Black Pete in Holland

    Like


  632. “Have you visited California?”—Me personally no, but I have a few friends from there. I have always wanted to go, but because of some fears I have been reluctant on doing so.

    1. The relationship between blacks and hispanics. Wrong neighborhood and not knowing it could equal me never being found.

    2. Anywhere I go I try not to come off as too tourisy. I make an effort to sort of blend in and I always look at California as either hard core gangs or glitz and glam.

    I have however been up and down the east coast and that took a lot for me to do. I get really nervous taking long road trips and being in high volumes of traffic. Of course I would fly to California but the lifestyle seems pretty fast and that makes me a bit nervous.

    Like


  633. @ Kiwi

    The Recent Comments sidebar is set at 15, as high as it will go.

    Like


  634. @ Sharina

    I have not seen “Sons of Anarchy”.

    Like


  635. @ Sondis

    Interesting article. I agree with Lifelearner that he is naive. The wagon incident 46 years ago should have been a dead giveaway.

    @ Lifelearner

    I am not qualified to write such a book, at least not till if and when my children reach 25 safe and sound.

    Like


  636. sharinalr:

    “In the end even that may not be enough.”

    You speak the truth….

    Like


  637. abagond:

    “The wagon incident 46 years ago should have been a dead giveaway.”

    Typical of most well off black people attempt to transcend, race.

    Like


  638. @Abagond

    Interesting article. I agree with Lifelearner that he is naive. The wagon incident 46 years ago should have been a dead giveaway.

    If there’s one vice (or perhaps virtue) we suffer from, it’s unbridled idealism in the face of overwhelming odds. Seems like it’s one of the many coping mechanisms we’ve developed during our time in this land.

    If anything, he should have grounded his boys in the realities of this land, so that whenever anyone called them an “N-word,” they wouldn’t have been so shell-shocked, nor would they have been so crestfallen over the lack of any action against the bigots in question. Instead, he bent backwards trying to conform to a society that, no matter how they behave or mimic their so-called “betters,” want absolutely nothing to do with them.

    Like


  639. @Kiwi

    The most precise race map of the US ever:

    I think Abagond posted this before.

    Looking at it again, was trying to see which regions or metro areas were the most diverse and integrated.

    Whereas SF has noticeable neighborhoods of Red (Asian) and Blue (White), smaller areas of Orange (Hispanic) and little green (Black), and LA has larger areas of orange, by far New York and Washington look considerably more diverse (where whites make up less than 1/2 the metro area, but also have significant black, Asian and Hispanic populations). The only serious contender is Houston. Chicago still looks more white. Cities like Baltimore and Cleveland are very split by black and white and very segregated.

    And while the coastal cities in California have some noticeable racial diversity, the rural and interior areas are noticeably white. On the East Coast, there are many cities with significant black populations (which fill in the area between the major cities), but from Washington, DC going south, it is also a suburban and rural phenomenon. Rural blacks outnumber rural whites along the coastal plain all the way from Maryland to Louisiana / SE Texas.

    Asian Brain suburbs abound in California, but can be found elsewhere too (eg, Edison / New Brunswick, NJ, North Potomac / Rockville MD (and large areas of Fairfax County, VA too), Plano, TX, Quincy, MA).

    Whereas NY and DC look very racially diverse, NYC is by far more segregated, with sharp lines separating racial neighborhoods. The mixed neighborhoods in NYC still contain few blacks. The DC area has more neighborhoods which contain a mix of Black, white, Asian and Hispanic (eg, West End of Alexandria, VA, Gaithersburg, MD and the areas from Silver Spring to College Park, MD and along Route 1 south of Alexandria in Fairfax County, VA).

    The segregation line in DC follows the Anacostia River. But DC by far has the largest area of black suburbs, encompassing most of Prince George’s County and Charles County. The only serious contender here is Atlanta, which also has a large number of middle class suburban blacks.

    The map also supports the “racial hierachy” hypothesis. We see many mixed Asian/white neighborhoods, mixed Hispanic/Asian neighborhoods, and mixed black Hispanic neighborhoods. Few with many blacks and Asians (I personally know one exception) unless many Hispanics are also present and few with both black and whites, unless Asians and Hispancs are also present.

    Like


  640. @ Abagond-touché

    @Mack Lyons- definitely doing that now, although my children are quite young, now. They will be well versed on the word N. I. G. G. E. R. and know all the derivatives of stated word- and no it is never a compliment whoever is using the term. Good points. thanks!

    Like