It is two and a half minutes to midnight.
The Doomsday Clock (1947- ) marks how close the world is to self-destruction in the judgement of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, with input from 15 Nobel Prize laureates. It uses:
“the imagery of apocalypse (midnight) and the contemporary idiom of nuclear explosion (countdown to zero) to convey threats to humanity and the planet.”
In 2017 it now stands at two and a half minutes to midnight, the worst it has been since the 1950s.
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists was founded by scientists who created the first atom bomb. The founding editor was concerned not just with an atomic end of days but more generally with the “Pandora’s box of modern science”.
They set the clock according to not just the in/action of political leaders but stuff like the number and kind of nuclear weapons in use, how much carbon dioxide is in the air, the acidity of the oceans and how fast the sea level is rising.
The clock through the years, showing some of the highlights:
1947: It is 7 minutes to midnight when the clock first appears.
1949: 3 minutes: The Soviet Union gets the bomb.
1953: 2 minutes: US tests the first hydrogen bomb.
1963: 12 minutes: Partial Test Ban treaty, signed in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
1974: 9 minutes: India gets the bomb.
1981: 4 minutes: Soviets invade Afghanistan.
1984: 3 minutes: arms control talks are just for show.
1988: 6 minutes: Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.
1990: 10 minutes: Fall of the Berlin Wall.
1991: 17 minutes: START treaty.
1998: 9 minutes: India and Pakistan test nuclear weapons.
2007: 5 minutes: Climate change, North Korea gets the bomb, Iran is close.
A chart showing all the changes:
Click to enlarge.
Of 2017: A week after Trump became US president, they moved the clock a half minute closer to midnight:
“events surrounding the US presidential campaign – including cyber offensives and deception campaigns apparently directed by the Russian government and aimed at disrupting the US election – have brought American democracy and Russian intentions into question and thereby made the world more dangerous than was the case a year ago.”
Of Trump:
“He has shown a troubling propensity to discount or outright reject expert advice related to international security, including the conclusions of intelligence experts. And his nominees to head the Energy Department and the Environmental Protection Agency dispute the basics of climate science.”
North Korea is also a concern.
The way forward is to cut nuclear arms and carbon emissions, which in turn will decrease global warming and the likelihood of nuclear war. In 2016, carbon emissions were flat, while the number of nuclear weapons increased.
A good first step for the US:
“the Trump administration needs to make a clear, unequivocal statement that it accepts climate change, caused by human activity, as a scientific reality. No problem can be solved, unless its existence is recognized.”
What ordinary citizens can do:
- Learn about climate change and nuclear weapons.
- Share what they learn.
- Inform government representatives of their concerns.
The Bulletin:
“Facts are indeed stubborn things, and they must be taken into account if the future of humanity is to be preserved, long term.”
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (January 26th 2018): The clock has moved forward 30 seconds to two minutes before midnight, the worst it has been since 1953. BBC.
See also:
- Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
- website – see where the clock is now
- The 2017 Doomsday Clock statement (PDF)
- atom bomb
- climate change
- fake news
- Clock of the Long Now
- Muzak – somehow I am reminded of Muzak.
552
Abagond 
“The way forward is to cut nuclear arms…”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5
In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.
When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.
Trump then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia….
New START gives both countries until February 2018 to reduce their deployed strategic nuclear warheads to no more than 1,550, the lowest level in decades. It also limits deployed land- and submarine-based missiles and nuclear-capable bombers.
During a debate in the 2016 presidential election, Trump said Russia had “outsmarted” the United States with the treaty, which he called “START-Up.” He asserted incorrectly then that it had allowed Russia to continue to produce nuclear warheads while the United States could not….
In the phone call, the Russian leader raised the possibility of reviving talks on a range of disputes and suggested extending New START, the sources said.
New START can be extended for another five years, beyond 2021, by mutual agreement. Unless they agree to do that or negotiate new cuts, the world’s two biggest nuclear powers would be freed from the treaty’s limits, potentially setting the stage for a new arms race.
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With Orange Hitler at the helm and his adlepated brain this could be any day our days are numbered he is the one with access to send us to a nuclear holocaust.
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“events surrounding the US presidential campaign – including cyber offensives and deception campaigns apparently directed by the Russian government and aimed at disrupting the US election – have brought American democracy and Russian intentions into question and thereby made the world more dangerous than was the case a year ago.”
Keep repeating this myth often enough and it becomes fact. There is no evidence that Russia hacked US election. The nation that has moved us closer to Doomsday is the US under the leadership of Barack Obama. Trump has had the opposite effect with regard to Russia, resisting the Obama/Hillary agenda of pushing for war with that country, though he has on the other hand been belligerent towards Iran and China. That too can lead to nuclear war but not as certainly as a military clash with Russia. When Hillary lost the election the Doomsday clock should actually moved back a minute. She was more prone to war with Russia than Trump.
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no mention of shift in US leadership opinion from MAD to a belief that war with Russia is winnable nor of expelling Russian diplomats and sending NATO troops to Russia border in December 2016 under Obama as having any effect on the Doomsday clock.
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“3. Inform government representatives of their concerns.”
Ha! You got jokes.. But you forgot to mention that you better bring a big bag of cash with you while INFORMING those representatives of your concerns because THAT’S HOW Amerika’s system works. Money talks.
Concerns? lol Not so much! In one ear (if you’re lucky enough to get an audience) then out the other ear.
Cash gets stuff done in a lobbyist fed system.
At least Putin cares something about the Russian people should a doomsday scenario occur. They have prepared underground cities/bunkers for ordinary Russian people (not just for the elites) to avoid complete death and annihilation. Russia may or may not win a nuclear exchange, but they have insured that at least a good amount of their people will survive a holocaust!
Can the same be said of the Amerikan (Democrat/Republican) leadership?
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“Can the same be said of the Amerikan (Democrat/Republican) leadership?”
No. I think they want us dead.
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@Nomad
If we are dead then who can they use and abuse? Then again our death is a sick pleasure to them so…
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@ Nomad – Sharina
I think the satanists’ plan is to keep just enough people/servants alive to serve them. Everyone else, according to them, are just useless eaters.
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“3. Inform government representatives of their concerns.”
Be polite. Use a calm voice. In the face of Armageddon.
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I’m ready for oblivion
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There are those who are still (insert Bulletin of Atomic Scientists) attempting to make God out to be a liar (1 John 5:10); that a nuclear war will not take place (Zechariah 14:12) and therefore, averted by mortal men; that the so-called elitarians amongst us aren’t prepared to temporarily escape to their Deep Underground Military Bases (DUMBs, Cheyenne Mountains) at the initial stages of Armageddon (Revelation 6:15).
They’ll be safe for a little while. But after the nuclear dust settles, they better brace themselves because the hunters will be tearing the doors down. Personally, I hope and pray to God that I’m selected as one of His 144,000 hunters to exact terror on the elites that will survive. (Revelation 7:4)
It is unquestionable that a large sum of humanity will die, but not all of us, due to radiation exposure. Those who believe in Him will live and those who think otherwise will die (John 11:26). The Most High will put the warrior Spirit on his hunters and send them to every mountain (bunkers) in order to finish off the so-called elites who have wreak havoc on this planet (Jeremiah 16:16) in an attempt to supplant themselves as being G-d.
To me, it’s truly comical that mortal men (Atomic Scientists) with their diminutive level of wisdom would even attempt to prevent something from happening that’s already been prophesied to happen and WRITTEN by the Most High true God! (Wisdom of Solomon 17:7-8)
All of the Lord’s prophecies will come to pass and not even one of them will fail! (Isaiah 34:16)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2oxLR-e2bI)
Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
2 Esdras 16 Like as an arrow (missiles) which is shot of a mighty archer returneth not backward: even so the plagues that shall be sent upon earth shall not return again.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Wisdom of Solomon 17:7-8 As for the illusions of art magick, they were put down, and their vaunting in wisdom was reproved with disgrace. 8 For they, that promised to drive away terrors and troubles from a sick soul, were sick themselves of fear, worthy to be laughed at. (the Bilderberg Group; the Illuminati and the Atomic Scientists)
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
2 Peter 3:10-15 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,
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Did I say ‘sending NATO troops to Russia border in December 2016 under Obama’?
It was US troops. That’s even more provocative. It’s a curious Doomsday clock that does not take into account US efforts to bring about conflict with Russia, Especially the US engineered Ukrainian coup.
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Well, there you go. Both the Hillary road and the Trump road led to the same end, didn’t it. Potential war with Russia and inevitably WW III.
I didn’t think Trump would capitulate so soon, giving his campaign rhetoric about getting along with Russia. Obviously there has been some behind the scenes arm twisting going on, leveraging this manufactured Mike Flynn scandal.
The controllers of this nation, whoever they may be (the president is only a figurehead), the real Big Brother, want war with Russia. The ones that gave Barama his marching orders. They would have gone with the Hillary fork. They would have gone to war with Russia with no resistance. But Hillary lost so they went with the contingency plan of coercing Trump into following through on that agenda. Both forks in the road led to the same end.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/02/trump-declares-war-russia.html
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@ nomad
Your deep state paradigm explains nothing because it explains everything. It has no predictive value. And it can never be proved or disproved. It is a conspiracy theory par excellence.
If anything was going to disprove it, it was the election of Donald Trump. But nope, you keep right on rolling. It has all the intellectual rigour of a wet noodle.
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@abagond
Thank you. I intend to. In spite of your disapprobation.
“Your deep state paradigm explains nothing because it explains everything.”
Your dismissal of it explains you.
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@abagond
So let me be sure I am interpreting you correctly. It is a conspiracy theory that cannot be proved or disproved. Therefore what? It doesn’t exist? Is this what you are saying?
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@ Nomad
How do we know that Putin doesn’t want a war with the U.S.?
Here’s a conspiracy theory: Putin wanted Trump in as president to soften us up before launching a conventional war against us.
Here we are, less than a month after the inauguration, and the White House is almost paralyzed due to scandals, incompetency, and in-fighting. Trump’s already alienating key allies, hasn’t yet filled many ambassador positions around the globe, and looks to be gearing up for a witchhunt against his own intelligence community.
Trump has also said (think it was quoted on a different thread) that he wants to tear everything down so he can build it back up again. But what if after he tears it all down, Putin picks that moment to invade?
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@Solitaire
I would call that Russophobia and Trump hysteria.
Russia has giving no indication of wanting war with the US.
The witch hunt is obviously the Intelligence Community’s against Trump. The stuff yall smoking is dangerously absurd and an inversion of reality.
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@abagond
“So let me be sure I am interpreting you correctly. It is a conspiracy theory that cannot be proved or disproved. Therefore what? It doesn’t exist? Is this what you are saying?”
no response? I’m going to assume my interpretation is correct.
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@abagond
BTW, in the comment you were responding to, I did not mention the Deep State. Doesn’t even sound like a term I have used. But I’m not adverse to using it.
I said “The controllers of this nation, whoever they may be (the president is only a figurehead), the real Big Brother”
We could call these controllers the Deep State. Or perhaps the Deep State is their means of control. We know there are people working behind the scenes to set the agenda. There are names of people of considerable political influence thrown about. Soros, Rockefeller, Kissinger. Maybe bankers are a part of the Deep State cabal that controls presidents. We know for example that a banker chose Obama’s cabinet. And since much of what our government does is secret, the Intel community plays a large roll, along with the driving engine of the Deep State, the MIC. Who knows who these controllers are?
Because it is hidden does not mean it doesn’t exist.
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@ Nomad
“I would call that Russophobia and Trump hysteria…. The stuff yall smoking is dangerously absurd and an inversion of reality.”
Except that I don’t believe it, any more than I believe Hillary Clinton wanted a nuclear war with Russia.
All I’m saying is if you fit certain pieces of a puzzle together in a certain way, you could equally argue that Putin wants a war with us as long as he can have it under his terms with a good chance of winning. That doesn’t mean I believe it to be true — I’m just saying.
It is probably more likely that Putin wants to see the US weakened and destabilized economically and militarily but has no intention of attacking. And even here, I’m not saying that he definitely wants a weakened America or that I thoroughly believe he does. I think it’s a possibility; it would make strategic sense. But it is equally likely not to be true.
“The witch hunt is obviously the Intelligence Community’s against Trump.”
Trump is currently planning to investigate the intelligence community and root out those he doesn’t like.
“Who knows who these controllers are?”
So in your opinion, is the US government the only one being controlled by secret players behind the scene? Or does this apply also to England, Canada, Germany, etc.? Is it possible that Putin is also being controlled?
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@Solitaire
“All I’m saying is if you fit certain pieces of a puzzle together in a certain way, you could equally argue that Putin wants a war with us as long as he can have it under his terms with a good chance of winning. That doesn’t mean I believe it to be true — I’m just saying.”
If you disregard empirical evidence you could. Nate has been tightening the noose around Russia since the end of the Cold War. The US has surrounded Russia with military basis. The US has provoked an anti-Russian coup in Ukraine. Sent US troops to the Russian border and expelled Russian diplomats on the basis of allegations not yet supported by evidence. And the anti Russian hostility that issues from the mouths of our elected officials, which BTW contrasts markedly to the restrained rhetoric of Putin. All Russia is has done is defend itself from US aggression. Any objective observer can see who the war mongering state is here.
You’d have to deny reality to argue that Putin wants war.
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@nomad
“Any objective observer can see who the war mongering state is here.”
That’s the problem. Few are objective observers. Most, like abagond and his retinue, can’t even see the New York Times’ anti-Russian propaganda for what it is.
I gave a clear example of it, and the first thing out of abagond’s mouth was another unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. There really is no reasoning with people who don’t want to deal with the facts.
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@ Nomad
“The US has provoked an anti-Russian coup in Ukraine.”
And Putin’s response was to invade an independent, sovereign nation and annex part of its territory. He had other, less aggressive options open to him, but he chose not to take them.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I get the impression you think if someone disapproves of Putin’s actions, they must approve of the US and NATO. I disagree. I believe they are all jockeying for power. I believe that all parties view their questionable actions as necessary for their self-defense. I believe this mindset puts the world in danger. The Cold War may have ended, but the old lines are still in place and the old mentality still holds sway. All parties share the blame.
You don’t have to answer this next question if you don’t want, but I’ll ask it a second time in case you missed it because I am interested in your opinion: Is Putin also a puppet of unseen masters, or is he his own man?
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resw
I was just thinking about the Trump/O’Reilly factor, where O’Reilly called Putin a murderer. Of course any head of state that has ever caused the death of anyone can be accused rightly or wrongly of murder. But here he is speaking from a MSM platform, MSM complicit in the murder of tens of thousands, in a government that reserves the right to murder anyone anywhere in the world. If any leader there is who is specifically known for murder it is Barack Obama; the guy who claimed to be good at it and bragged about killing Osama bin Ladin. O’Reilly cries ‘Putin is a murderer!’ Why does this astound him? He has just had a president who famously personally chose persons to be assassinated by drone on a weekly basis. Did O’Reilly, at any time during this eight years call Obama a murderer? (Somebody knows the answer to that.) The Russophobic double standard is mind boggling.
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@Solitaire
“And Putin’s response was to invade an independent, sovereign nation and annex part of its territory. He had other, less aggressive options open to him, but he chose not to take them.”
He didn’t invade. He was invited by Crimea to defend them from Russia hating Nazis, which Obama supported. Imagine that. A black president supporting Nazis. I don’t think Putin’s other options, whatever they may have been, were feasible. Or beneficial to Russia. Why should he bow to US hegemony on his doorstep?
Bottom line. Russia would have taken no action in Crimea had it not been for the coup sponsored by and provoked by the USA. As I say. Russia is only reacting to US aggression.
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@nomad
” …O’Reilly called Putin a murderer…. But here he is speaking from a MSM platform, MSM complicit in the murder of tens of thousands, in a government that reserves the right to murder anyone anywhere in the world. ”
Right, if anyone’s a murderer it’s O’Reilly and the msm executives/faux journalists who conned Americans into supporting the Iraqi invasion based on completely false pretenses, leading to the deaths of at least 100,000.
“Did O’Reilly, at any time during this eight years call Obama a murderer? (Somebody knows the answer to that.)”
Abagond usually knows what happens on Fox News, so maybe he can answer that.
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“And Putin’s response was to invade an independent, sovereign nation and annex part of its territory.”
More msm propaganda.
The US gov’t is the one with troops stationed in Ukraine, Poland, Norway, Latvia, Lithuania, etc., not Russia.
US supported a coup in Ukraine, not Russia.
Several UN polls conducted over 3 years well before the referendum showed the vast majority of Crimean voters wanted to join Russia.
Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and join Russia.
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Ok ‘deep state’ is neospeak for a good old fashioned ‘5th column’ or ‘fourth estate’ but extremely anti-populist
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@ nomad
Sure it could be true, but without proof or without any predictive value, it is idle speculation.
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My cynicism was inculcated before i could walk, pretty sure, and the british/scottish sarcasm didnt help matters at all eh {insert moderatable comment here}
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I suppose the implication is that The New York Times, Washington Post and NPR are doing their best to report the truth and the others, including RT, are purveyors of falsehoods. That, as regards RT, is a lie. More propaganda. More subtle Russophobia, but propaganda still. That’s not likely to restore MSM’s credibility, so ignominiously surrendered during the Hillary election debacle. The cynicism didn’t just arise out of nowhere. MSM brought it upon itself. This finger pointing is not going to help restore that credibility. I don’t really know if MSM is redeemable. I’m certainly getting my news from somewhere else and a lots more people besides me. These charlatans can F off for all I care.
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Oh an btw being the recipient of my cynicism non est sui generis
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@Scribh
I wrote a response to your Frum comment on The Trump Era thread:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/the-trump-era/#comment-365369
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@abagond
“Sure it could be true, but without proof or without any predictive value, it is idle speculation.”
There is a large body of literature on this subject and various branches of it, as I indicated, from MIC to CIA to banksters and NGOs and groups like Bilderbergs, Skull and Bones and on and on.. To say it is not worth investigating is simply wrong. In fact it’s absurd. You will not be able to determine a ‘predictive value’ until you have examined the evidence. There is nothing idle about revealing the truth.
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@ nomad
I never said it should not be investigated.
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abagond
“I never said it should not be investigated ”
Sure you did.
“without proof or without any predictive value, it is idle speculation.”
Proofs are available in the various literatures that I mentioned. Predictive value emerges from research in those areas. Investigating rather than dismissing as conspiracy theory, in all the pejorative sense of that label.
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@ nomad
Huh? You have been using the term regulary since Trump won. You first used it here on November 20th 2016:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/its-not-about-racism/#comment-358657
Michael Jon Barker uses it regulary too. So does Breitbart News:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/15/virgil-deep-state-bumps-off-general-flynn-whos-next-target/
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@ nomad
If the New York Times is propaganda, then RT most certainly is. When has RT ever broken a scandal on Vladimir Putin? But to their credit they did denounce PizzaGate as fake news.
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oh I stand corrected. but as I say I have no qualms about using the term.
on the merits of RT versus MSM, MSM is not even in the same league. it is much more propagandistic than RT. as I say MSMs job is to hide geopolitical realities from Americans. RT is the antidote to that mind control because they report what MSM won’t. I think that’s their motto.
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Abagond said : “Michael Jon Barker uses it regulary too. So does Breitbart News:”
That uncomfortable feeling you get when you see your name in the same paragraph with Breitbart news. lol
To clarify when I use the term “the State” I am using it differently then Breitbart news and president Trump.
Trump and friends see the deep state as some kind of shadow government thus they wants to go after intelligence agencies that they imagine are behind it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_within_a_state
When I use the term “the State” I am referring to the apparatus of the State and it’s monopoly on violence. “War is the health of the State”.
Most governments around the world have States structured like the example above. Citizens think that a State is like a car. If there political party or idiology comes to power they will be able to steer the State to do the good things that they belive in. So they participate in political theater not realizing that the State is the collective “id” of their culture (in the West, white supremacy) and functions instinctively to preserve that. The State works in partnership with banks, corperations, the rich ect. to protect, maintain and expand that wealth at the expense of the average citizen.
States continue to expand until they collapse. Then a new set of thugs take over. Rarely has revolution brought real political change. The Arab Spring is a good example of that.
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@MJB
I just want to be sure I’m interpreting this correctly. What you seem to be talking about is the state, not the deep state. So, I ask you like I asked Abagond, Is there a deep state? With all the Intel originating attacks against Trump, the legitimately elected president, from P gate dossier to the Flynn assassination, are you really going to assert that there is no deep state? With an agenda in this case that contradicts the president’s?
“The intel community is a government unto itself.” Michael Maloof.
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abagond
@ nomad
“BTW, in the comment you were responding to, I did not mention the Deep State. Doesn’t even sound like a term I have used. ”
Huh? You have been using the term regulary since Trump won. You first used it here on November 20th 2016:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/its-not-about-racism/#comment-358657
People in debates like to change the terminology of the discussion to take control of it by getting their opponent to use their words. I’m just pointing out that that is what has happened here. I tend to guard against such shifts in terminology, just to be sure people aren’t distorting what I’m saying. Controllers was my term. At least for this thread. However, I have no objection to using the term you substituted. It doesn’t seem to alter the discussion any.
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aaahhaahhaahaaa…
trump changes opinion about cnn being fake news.
now he thinks its VERY fake news.
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@michaeljonbarker
“So [citizens] participate in political theater not realizing that the State is the collective “id” of their culture (in the West, white supremacy) and functions instinctively to preserve that. The State works in partnership with banks, corperations, the rich ect. to protect, maintain and expand that wealth at the expense of the average citizen.
States continue to expand until they collapse. Then a new set of thugs take over. Rarely has revolution brought real political change.”
Well said. That is also my understanding of modern nation-states and real effects of most revolutions.
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@abagond
Glenn Greenwald indulges in idle speculation.
Greenwald asserted in an interview with Democracy Now, published on Thursday, that this [Flynn situation] boils down to a fight between the Deep State and the Trump administration.
According to an in-depth report by journalist Mike Lofgren:
“The Deep State does not consist of the entire government. It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street.”
As Greenwald explained during his interview:
“It’s agencies like the CIA, the NSA and the other intelligence agencies, that are essentially designed to disseminate disinformation and deceit and propaganda, and have a long history of doing not only that, but also have a long history of the world’s worst war crimes, atrocities and death squads.”
http://sorendreier.com/chilling-warnings-about-deep-states-war-on-trump/
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@ nomad
Thank you. I saw that interview and posted it on my Tumblr:
(http://abagond.tumblr.com/post/157349443149/greenwald-empowering-the-deep-state-to)
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@ nomad
I will be doing a post on the deep state.
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cool. looking forward to it.
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Trump versus the Deep State. What a quandary. Who to root for? The racist or the police state? It’s only fair. The elite have been pitting us left right people against each other for so long, it’s about time for the shoe to be on the other foot. The president against the Deep State. Let’s you and him fight.
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@ nomad
Just read an excellent 2014 essay on the Deep State by Mike Lofgren. He describes the Deep State this way:
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
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“the Deep State has been extracting value from the American people in vampire-like fashion.”
Sucking the blood of the sufferers. And like vampires doing evil under the cloak of darkness, taking possession of people’s minds and doing evil. Deep state might be the Babylon system.
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^^^^^^
Did I hear kiwi’s (nick)name mentioned????
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Wait a second, deep state is as i described but wnd is saying ‘pro-obama’ ie [tacitly] democratic or maybe overtly even, calling it that but my gut is a ‘top tier’ military-industrial complex bubble or something, ‘presidential curiosity is not sufficient… Like making the regular govt the congress as opposed to the senate, and grooming the populace’s not only conscious nut experience vis a vis controlling news eh whatever
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@v8driver
damn. i had a more thoughtful comment but lost it in trying to insert a link.
basically Obama is the last in the dynasty of CIA presidents and actually works for the CIA. you can tell by his policies that he wasn’t a real democrat. he was a DINO. he’s staying on to help the Deep State overthrow Trump. to orchestrate the coup actually.
Is an American Coup d’etat in Progress?
“Have you asked yourself the question of why Former President Obama is hunkering down in a secure fortress in DC to lead the new “Regime Change” against duly elected President Donald Trump? ”
https://geopolitics.co/2017/02/20/is-an-american-coup-detat-in-progress/
It’s skewed right wing, but makes an important point.
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oh yeah. I also said that the fact that Trump is in acrimony with the Deep State indicates that he is not a part of it, as has been every president at least since Reagan and possibly since Kennedy. And I also said, that’s a good thing.
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‘Sources say maybe’
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like maybe the sun will rise tomorrow?
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Like magic 8 ball, the toy that is, just in case it was confusing…
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@ nomad
By the same logic, Hillary Clinton was not part of the deep state either given the way Comey, the FBI director, broke with protocol and said he was still investigating her email scandal.
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@ Nomad
I don’t see the “deep state” the same way as has been described. I belive their is a corporatacracy that includes the media and is driven by corperations but I’m not convinced the “deep state” is as entrenched against Trump as Breitbart and the Alt Right describe it.
They see the deep state as interfering with Trump ect but what they really want is to control those institutions within government that deal with intelligence and enforcement. They wish to use the state as a mechanism to enact violence lawfully against their perceived enemies as well as against immigrants and non whites.
They want to harden the facism we already have.
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@abagond
“By the same logic, Hillary Clinton was not part of the deep state ”
Oh yeah. Like the Deep State would not throw one of their own under the bus when they become a liability and too carelessly crooked even for them. Hillary never challenged the Deep State, as Trump is doing. That would be a sign that she’s not a part of it. The fact that she was following the Obama agenda says that she was in alignment with the Deep State.
@MJB
“They see the deep state as interfering with Trump ” and so do I.
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@abagond
“If the New York Times is propaganda, then RT most certainly is. When has RT ever broken a scandal on Vladimir Putin? But to their credit they did denounce PizzaGate as fake news.”
That’s because they are creditable and have journalistic integrity sorely missing from MSM. Instead of smearing RT as propaganda you, as a commentator on black culture, should be praising them for their coverage of black issues. Today I watched a segment on Watching the Hawks “Remembering Malcolm X” featuring his daughter. When has MSM done such reporting?
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@ nomad
Huh? RT has journalistic integrity? They are Putin’s little lapdog, just like Fox News is now Trump’s little lapdog. Neither speak truth to power within their own country. Both are political hacks.
RT, from what I have seen of it (mainly the headline news), seems to have a White nationalist / Clash-of-Civilizations theme. Its stories strangely track Fox News and Breitbart News. In fact, you first came off as a Fox News viewer to me. And some of what you say is echoed in Breitbart, like about the Deep State and the profound corruption of the Democratic Party.
RT seems to run stories about Blacks in the US for the same reason East German television did back in the 1980s: to make the US look bad. I doubt they do it out of any concern for Black people.
After all, what Black commentators and reporters does RT have? Every time I watch it, all I see is White people telling me the news. Why is that?
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@abagond
“In fact, you first came off as a Fox News viewer to me. And some of what you say is echoed in Breitbart, like about the Deep State and the profound corruption of the Democratic Party.”
I guess great minds think alike
“RT seems to run stories about Blacks in the US for the same reason East German television did back in the 1980s: to make the US look bad. I doubt they do it out of any concern for Black people.”
tsk tsk. so cynical. and such a true believer In the uprightness of US. US dont need RT to make US look bad, too bad you’ll never see whats just outside the blinders you wear.
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“After all, what Black commentators and reporters does RT have?”
as we know from Obama, black misleaders and news regurgitaters, black skin does not mean black friend.
“Every time I watch it, all I see is White people telling me the news. Why is that?”
I don’t know. I guess ’cause they’re white. you gon’ hold that against them?
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“Huh? RT has journalistic integrity? They are Putin’s little lapdog, just like Fox News is now Trump’s little lapdog. Neither speak truth to power within their own country. Both are political hacks.”
You like to make these unfounded equivalencies. E.g. Because one is a hack, the other has got to be a hack. By definition, Russia’s has got to be worse than America’s. Whatever America’s guilty of, Russia is even more guilty. Face the fact. Our media are the propagandistic even criminal hacks, in that they lie us into wars that cause the lives of millions. They hide news. RT reveals it. US media is not in the same class with RT.
And you keep making these claims without backing them up. Show me the proof that RT is Putin’s lapdog.
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I know you’re blind to Wearechange too, but he articulates the truth about the propaganda mill called MSM.
(https://youtu.be/RKhSg2uVVB4)
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@nomad
“And you keep making these claims without backing them up.”
Propagandists don’t need to back up claims.
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@ nomad
Like what? What great truths does RT reveal that are hidden by the US media?
Right, because RT is directly controlled by the Russian government.
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@ nomad
I will be doing a post on RT.
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@ nomad
So then Trump is part of the Russian deep state, since he freely compares the CIA to Nazis and yet has never a bad word to say about Vladimir Putin and even ran on a strangely pro-Russian platform.
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@nomad
You’d think between abagond’s provincial Univision Communications and Breitbart news “diets”, he’d actually want to go on an RT “diet” so he can actually know what he’s talking about instead of spreading propaganda.
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@resw
I’m tellinya. Go on an RT diet, abagond. Get cured.
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@abagond
“So then Trump is part of the Russian deep state, since he freely compares the CIA to Nazis and yet has never a bad word to say about Vladimir Putin and even ran on a strangely pro-Russian platform.”
I’m sure you have name for this fallacious argument type. Where can I find it?
-never a bad word to say about Vladimir Putin
I don’t know if that’s true or not and if it is its a good thing, but only by wildly stretching the imagination does that make him a part of the deep state. please return to sanity, abagond. your credibility is taking a hit.
-ran on a strangely pro-Russian platform
this a lie and pure propaganda straight from the hoary womb of Hillary Clinton, midwifed by Barack Obama and delivered to the Deep State.
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@ nomad
I am mocking your logic. You are the one who needs to return to sanity.
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@abagond
The video. It doesn’t get any clearer than that. The scion of Zbigniew Brzezinski says that the job of the MSM is to control what people think. She inadvertently let the truth out the bag. MSM is propaganda. I didn’t need her to tell me that. I discovered it on my own. But perhaps you do, since nothing for you can be true unless it comes from the official news source. Well here it is. Delivered by MSM itself.
‘Well, Russia is too.’ I know. The all sides do it argument.
Well no. RT isn’t. These are reporters with journalistic integrity. Not like our sycophantic warmongering media.
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“I am mocking your logic.”
people living in glass houses should not throw stones
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@abagond
“Face the fact. Our media are the propagandistic even criminal hacks, in that they lie us into wars that cause the lives of millions. They hide news. RT reveals it.”
“Like what? What great truths does RT reveal that are hidden by the US media?”
Off the top of my head that ISIS as prosecuted by Obama was a phony war.
The US provoked the coup in Ukraine. Americans believe Russia invaded. The rest of the world knows this is not true. already discussed above, numerous things, many of which I have posted to this blog.
Like what? What great truths does RT reveal that are hidden by the US media?
“RT is directly controlled by the Russian government.”
I’ve already refuted it. Resw has already debunked. And yet you’re going to make that statement as if it were a proven fact. Your credibility is crumbling.
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@ nomad
What you and resw debunked and I was wrong about is that RT is OWNED by the government. It is not. I agree. But it still gets most of its money from the government.
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@ nomad
Huh? Are you and RT saying Russia did not invade Ukraine?
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@ nomad
Just to be clear, some parts of the MSM are clearly propagandistic, like Fox News and MSNBC, meaning that they are more interested in pushing a particular political message than in seeking the truth. RT is in the same class, from what I have seen. CNN, the BBC and the New York Times, on the other hand, do seem to make a serious attempt at getting their facts right. That hardly means they are always right or that they are without bias. All three, for example, have a clear pro-Israeli bias.
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‘Huh? Are you and RT saying Russia did not invade Ukraine?”
yep
some bright spots amid the blight spots. on the whole its mind control. that’s why you can live in an alternate reality where Russia invaded Ukraine.
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“What you and resw debunked and I was wrong about is that RT is OWNED by the government. It is not. I agree. But it still gets most of its money from the government.”
the government does not control its content, as you repeatedly assert,
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you make it sound like putin issues talking points to Chris Hedges, Jesse Ventura, Larry King and the lesser known journalists and news people, every one of the journalists there that i observed were independent thinkers. every bit as abby whatshername that you have mentioned. no. no more than Obama issued talking points to cnn abc and cbs. which by the way still carried water for the his administration, well aware that they were the propaganda wing of the federal government.
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Back to the machinations of the Deep State.
http://theantimedia.org/cia-coup-us-government/
“These wartime developments are not necessarily the work of a democratically elected government, but a shadowy cocktail hybrid of a number of different agencies who will oust anyone they view as a threat to their agenda.”
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@ nomad
“Americans believe Russia invaded. The rest of the world knows this is not true.”
The rest of the world??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
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The so called invasion of Ukraine.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/15/6006281/russia-ukraine-war-what-we-know
“Obama-Trump economic sanctions against Russia are based upon the lies that are to be exposed as lies, in the links here. So too are the NATO movements of U.S. troops and missiles right up to Russia’s very borders — ready to invade Russia — based especially upon the lie of ‘Russian aggression in Crimea’. All of the thrust for WW III is based upon U.S. President Barack Obama’s vicious lie against Russia: his saying that the transfer of Crimea from Ukraine to Russia was not (which it actually was) an example of the U.N.-and-U.S. universally recognized right of self-determination of peoples (such as the U.S. recognizes to apply both in Catalonia and in Scotland, but not in Crimea) but was instead an alleged ‘conquest’ of Crimea by Russia. (As that link there documents, Obama’s allegation that it was ‘Putin’s conquest’ of Crimea is false, and he knew it to be false; he was well informed that the people of Crimea overwhelmingly wanted their land to be restored to Russia, and to be protected by Russia, so as not to be invaded by the Ukrainian government’s troops and weapons, after a bloody U.S. coup by Obama had — less than a month earlier — overthrown the democratically elected President of Ukraine, for whom 75% of Crimeans had voted. Obama’s own agents were behind that coup; they were doing his bidding. The aggressor here is entirely the U.S., not Russia, despite Obama’s lies.)”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/02/things-will-get-worse-u-s-stops-lying-crimea.html
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“CNN, the BBC and the New York Times, on the other hand, do seem to make a serious attempt at getting their facts right.”
And that has nothing to do with whether or not something is propaganda. An article can be full of errors and not be propaganda, and one can contain mostly factual information and still be propaganda.
A perfect example is NYT’s article, “A Powerful Russian Weapon: The Spread of False Stories” which accurately says Swedish officials found no links to Russia, but still talks about Russia anyway, and even includes a photo of “unidentified soldiers” in Crimea, as if that has anything to do with fake news in Sweden.
And using abagond’s own standard regarding RT, BBC shouldn’t be trusted because it’s “controlled” by the UK government. And you need look no further than its coverage of Brexit, Syria and Israel to see that it too engages in propaganda.
It is a fact that BBC editor instructed staff to be pro-Israel and not blame Israel for its attacks in Gaza. It is a fact that he said ““Please remember, Israel doesn’t maintain a blockade around Gaza. Egypt controls the southern border.” Forget the fact that Israel with US help built a wall on that southern border, patrols it, and only allows one entrance between Gaza and Egypt.
And CNN? Don’t make us laugh. Its election coverage proved it has a clear agenda. But of course you’re going to defend the network that shilled for your boss, and I don’t blame you since you’re still collecting a cheque.
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@abagond
You live in an alternate reality created by MSM.
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@An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach
No. Nobody nor nothing is controlling everything you do. Just your thoughts about geopolitical realities. To the degree that you passively accept the programming. And while somewhere along the line Bilderbergs and lizard people may play a roll, your outlook on the world is primarily being controlled by the CIA and MSM. That’s why you believe that Russia hacked the election, installed Trump, and invaded Ukraine. You believe what the state tells you to believe. Its 1984. How many fingers am I holding up?
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Trump being briefed by the deep state
…
https://steemit.com/news/@corbettreport/what-will-be-trump-s-reichstag-fire
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@ Abagond
“Huh? Are you and RT saying Russia did not invade Ukraine?”
Don’t be silly. Putin didn’t invade Crimea, he liberated it! /s
Reminds me of Reagan’s “freedom fighters” rhetoric.
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@nomad that’s interesting/wierd coincidence? that the uss cole is involved in that mess.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/03/uss-cole-patrolling-off-yemen-after-iran-backed-rebels-attack-saudi-ship.amp.html
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So, yall still buying that Russia invaded Ukraine crap? That’s why America is so exceptional.
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@ Nomad
Yes — just like the U.S. invaded Mexico to take over territory. Regardless of how we sought to justify that (e.g., protecting Americans living in those regions), it was still an invasion.
Putin’s actions in your opinion may be justified, but it still constitutes an invasion. Crimea was legally part of Ukraine, a status recognized internationally and by the United Nations. Putin used military action to take Crimea away from Ukraine.
Ukraine (not just the region of Crimea) has a history of being subsumed by Russia and its independence movements repeatedly crushed.
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There’s opinions and then theres facts. Ask the Crimeans if they think it was an invasion.
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@ Solitaire
Yes, and, according to RT, Assad in Syria “liberated” eastern Aleppo after bombing it to bits. Something else the do-no-wrong Russians had a hand in.
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@ Nomad
Well, that would be people’s opinions, wouldn’t it? And I expect the opinions of “the Crimeans” would break largely across ethnic lines.
What’s really sad is the Crimean Tartars are the ethnic group who have the strongest and oldest claim to Crimea, but they have been virtually ignored in this controversy.
Stalin exiled the entire Crimean Tatar population and forcibly removed them from Crimea in 1944. It’s only been relatively recently that any Crimean Tartars have been allowed to return, but they now constitute an estimated 12% of the Crimean population.
After the annexation, the Russian government told the Crimean Tartars who live on the coast that they would be relocated to other parts of Crimea, whether they want to move or not.
So the people to whom the land belonged for hundreds of years have no voice in this argument between Russia and Ukraine, no autonomy, and not even enough power to prevent their forced removal from their coastal homes.
They’re also Muslim, and we can see from Chechnya what they probably have to look forward to.
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@ Abagond
“the do-no-wrong Russians”
So much dichotomous thinking in this thread. The U.S. is bad, so therefore Russia must be good. They can’t both be bad. And anyone who points out Russia’s faults must automatically think the U.S. is faultless — no matter what they say to the contrary. It’s all good/evil and no shades of gray allowed.
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@Solitaire
“Well, that would be people’s opinions, wouldn’t it?”
They are the ones who would know. Did the Russians rape and pillage and firebomb while they were invading? Or did the population of Crimea petition Russia for annexation?
“The U.S. is bad, so therefore Russia must be good.”
You’re the one making it dichotomous. The only reason you think I’m saying Russia can do no wrong is because you believe they can do no right. So it seems odd to you that they can. And they have. They are defeating ISIS where the US couldn’t. Or wouldn’t. And They’re news media is better.
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abagond
Sorry, given your bias against Russia, you need a link. Not saying its not true. Just not taking your word for it.
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You guys are such faithful supporters of the government that has abused, murdered and exploited you so. I bet yall stand and put your hand your heart when they play the national anthem.
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Unbelievable! So the US funding of ISIS is a conspiracy theory too?
Oh say can you see
True Americans you do be.
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“alleges it was intentional – and by Clinton and Obama.)”
It was! Has it not been clear what an evil bunch of malefactors we have running this government? This. is. what. they. do.
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even if you go to the gov’t of ukraine’s websites it’s not clear about not crimea the ukraine itself east ukraine
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and really? ‘top of the pack’ like as in cards or wth?!?!?!? front of the pack, leader of the pack a trumpism for sure
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@ Nomad
” you believe they can do no right.”
Not true at all. For starters, the Russians defeated Nazi Germany.
Can you name one thing you believe Russia has done wrong?
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“Or did the population of Crimea petition Russia for annexation?”
Some of the population of Crimea petitioned Russia. The Crimean Tartars didn’t, and look what’s already starting to happen to them.
This is ethnic conflict. There is nationalist foment on the part of both ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians who wouldn’t even be in Crimea except for the past colonialist policies of failed empires.
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@ nomad
This is the very sort of dichotomous thinking Solitaire was talking about. Anyone who is critical of Trump, Russia or RT is assumed to be a mindless follower of Hillary Clinton, the US or the MSM.
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@ nomad
There are tons of RT stories about the “liberation” of East Aleppo. For example:
Syrian govt forces liberate about 40% of east Aleppo from terrorists …
https://www.rt.com/news/368400-east-aleppo-civilians-liberated/
Liberation of E. Aleppo from militants complete – Russian military …
https://www.rt.com/news/370510-aleppo-women-children-evacuated/
Liberation of E. Aleppo has allowed ‘genuine’ separation of ‘moderate …
https://www.rt.com/news/370628-russia-aleppo-separation-militants/
Civilians return to ‘normal’ life in liberated, ruined E. Aleppo (VIDEO …
https://www.rt.com/news/370717-aleppo-vide-locals-return/
Aleppo liberated, country-wide ceasefire now possible – Russian …
https://www.rt.com/news/371427-aleppo-evacuation-syria-truce/
‘Only road’ to deliver aid to eastern Aleppo liberated – Russian MoD …
https://www.rt.com/news/368713-aleppo-castello-road-liberated/
UN stopped offering aid after 40% of east Aleppo liberated from …
https://www.rt.com/news/369027-aleppo-un-russia-aid/
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“They wanted us to invade” and “We were protecting them” is classic imperialistic apologetics.
I find it telling that nomad, who has no trouble seeing through the hypocrisy of Hillary Clinton, cannot see through the hypocrisy of Vladimir Putin.
I guess I should be flattered that I rate at least two Russian trolls.
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abagond
Don’t be flattered. You’re Russiaphobic and paranoid. Anybody who doesn’t buy the propaganda you and the US government is pushing is a Russian troll.
I see the links there. Which one accuses Assad of bombing it to bits? Was he bombing his people or ISIS?
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@abagond
And I see nothing about a “liberation”. I see liberation. You use quotes to deny that they did what they actually did do. The same kind of denial you use regarding Russia. They like Russia can do no right. You are as exceptional and as American as lynching.
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@Solitaire
*Got to go back that far, huh? They haven’t done anything right in 72 years?
*Why should I? They’ve actually earned my admiration these past eight years.
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@An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach
“I did a Google search for “US funds ISIS.” What I found:”
Counterpunch? Fake news? Come on.
Here’s another fake news site claiming US funded ISIS.
http://www.blackagendareport.com/obama_clinton_created_isis
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@ nomad
“Got to go back that far, huh? They haven’t done anything right in 72 years?”
How shall I say this? Oh yes, let me quote your phrasing: “Why should I?”
You claimed that I believed Russia couldn’t do anything right. I gave you one example as proof that your belief about my sentiments was incorrect. You then moved the goalposts on me while simultaneously refusing to give similar proof that you don’t believe Russia is perfect. Just one fricking example, even from 70 years ago. You simply refuse.
So why should I? You’ll just find a reason to dismiss anything I say because apparently you need to continue thinking of me as a mindless brainwashed supporter of the Murican gummint.
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@ nomad
Although you know what? This is quick and easy, so here’s example number two: Run up to the top of this thread, take a look at the very first comment, where I copied and pasted a long quote about nuclear disarmament.
One of the two world leaders in that article was trying to do a good thing, and one sounded like a deluded fool. Putin and Russia are being far more reasonable about extending the treaty and continuing to reduce the nuclear weapon stockpile than our current leader.
And I shouldn’t have had to spell that out for you, because it’s my first post on this thread. Right there this whole blankety-blank time.
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@Solitaire
‘I shouldn’t have had to spell that out for you”
don’t know why you felt you needed to, I can read, I’m just not jumping thru your hoops. you feel you’ve got to make a list. go ahead. that’s your agenda. not mine.
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you are the one who characterized my thoughts as dichotomous.
when actually its yours.
““the do-no-wrong Russians”
So much dichotomous thinking in this thread. The U.S. is bad, so therefore Russia must be good.”
Because I said Russia was justified in this case you asserted that I think they can do no wrong. That is dichotomous thinking on your part. I feel no need to engage in the straw man argument.
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@ abagond
The first sentence of this post states:
“The Doomsday Clock (1947- ) marks how close the world is to self-destruction in the judgement of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, with input from 15 Nobel Prize laureates.”
You got that blatantly wrong.
Amerika IS THE DOOMSDAY CLOCK!
There would probably be no such thing or thought of such a thing (as a doomsday clock) if not for how Amerika conducts it affairs (hegemony) throughout the world!
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Dick_Cheney_Poisoned_Hundreds_Of_US_Troops_In_Iraq._Now_They%E2%80%99re_Dying%2C_And_The_Media_Is_Silent/57022/0/38/38/Y/M.html
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“Amerika IS THE DOOMSDAY CLOCK!”
Confronting these evil treacherous merchants of doom.
(https://youtu.be/H8SycdU3QDk)
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Abagond’s view of RT is typical of Americans, the victims of their own MSM propaganda.
But it’s wrong.
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@nomad
“Unbelievable! So the US funding of ISIS is a conspiracy theory too?”
The propagandists already know the US funded ISIS, as I have proved on this blog several months ago:
John McCain said back in 2014:
“Hillary Clinton has described already the meeting in the White House over 2 years ago. Everyone on the National Security team recommended arming ISIS.”
And as they know, Obama admitted to training ISIS or ISIL as he likes to call it: (https://youtu.be/mOYm_CCxxKk)
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard even told us that Syrians “expressed the question, why is it that the United States, its allies and other countries, are providing support, are providing arms, to terrorist groups like Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, who are on the ground there, raping, kidnapping, torturing, and killing the Syrian people? Children, men, women and people of all ages.”
Then she introduced the “Stop Arming Terrorists Act”: (https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-urges-support-stop-arming-terrorists-act)
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@resw
It’s as if proof doesn’t matter.
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@nomad
Proof be damned. Abagond, et al. need to see it on CNN for it to be true.
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@resw
Oh. Well CNN. I see. That’s definitely not fake news.
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Well dam. I guess I was wrong. I thought the existence of the deep state was an uncontroversial issue. Got to stay off the alternative media. They are misinforming me. The New York Times says we don’t have a deep state in US. That’s something that only happens in other less savory countries. Like Egypt, Turkey and probably Russia. What appears to be deep state activity has only emerged with the Trump presidency, the intel community having no recourse but to resort to leaks to undermine him. But its not really a deep state. Even though most of what our government does is secret, i.e. classified. That’s not really deep state.
As Leaks Multiply, Fears of a ‘Deep State’ in America
And you can believe the New York Times. They are not propaganda trying to disguise whats actually going on. And they are definitely not fake news.
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Right-wing pundit Bill Kristol believes in the existence of the deep state. He tweets:
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The long hidden Deep state surfaces to meet the threat of Trump.
Both conservatives like Kristol and liberals state “publically, that the “deep state” should take out Trump. Both believe, without evidence, that the Russians intervened to try to get Trump elected. Therefore, both no doubt feel justified in openly espousing a coup d’etat. They match Trump’s blatancy with their own. Nothing deep about this.
Liberals and conservatives are now publically allied in demonizing Putin and Russia, and supporting a very dangerous military confrontation initiated by Obama and championed by the defeated Hillary Clinton. In the past these opposed political factions accepted that they would rotate their titular leaders into and out of the White House, and whenever the need arose to depose one or the other, that business would be left to deep state forces to effect in secret and everyone would play dumb.
Now the game has changed. It’s all “obvious.” The deep state has seemingly gone shallow.”
*The Deep State. Not so deep anymore.
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https://off-guardian.org/2017/02/28/the-deep-state-goes-shallow-a-reality-tv-coup-detat-in-prime-time/
forgot link. while I’m adding it might as well quote this passage
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The Deep State’s Hatred of Trump Is Not the Same as Yours
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_deep_states_hatred_of_trump_is_not_the_same_as_yours_20170302
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I used to think there was a deep state. but some mainstream sources are saying there isnt. And I know these sources are not propaganda or fake news. So it must be true. These sources could not all be under the influence of the CIA. That would be, like, wrong. You know. Brainwashing. ‘Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain’ kind of thing. ‘These are not the droids youre looking for’. Jedi mind tricks.
https://off-guardian.org/2017/03/21/there-is-no-american-deep-state-it-just-looks-like-there-is/
Yeah. There is no deep state. That’s just a conspiracy theory. Worse. It’s a conspiracy theory created by Trump.
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@abagond
still waiting
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@ nomad
Fair enough, but let me post on Neil Gorsuch first.
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no sweat. just thought you might have forgotten.
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I do like it when people get right to the crux of an issue, as Eric Zeusse does here. Here’s the problem in a nut shell; beginning with the Obama lie that was then enshrined in MSM and implanted into the American mind. That’s how propaganda and social control works and how they funnel us down the path to war.
SUMMARY
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/01/06/are-us-economic-sanctions-against-russia-based-on-obama-lie.html
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Chorus
No. Nobody nor nothing is controlling everything you do. Just your thoughts about geopolitical realities. To the degree that you passively accept the programming. And while somewhere along the line Bilderbergs and lizard people may play a roll, your outlook on the world is primarily being controlled by the CIA and MSM. That’s why you believe that Russia hacked the election, installed Trump, and invaded Ukraine. You believe what the state tells you to believe. Its 1984. How many fingers am I holding up?
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@ nomad, etc
I will be doing a post on the deep state soon. If you have any links you particularly recommend, please let me know.
Thanks.
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@abagond
Nothing in particular. Just various interesting articles. Washingtons Blog does a good job covering the subject. Here’s an interesting MSM piece.
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@ Abagond (and @Deb)
I recently heard a podcast on Project Censored that went in depth on the subject of the Deep State. The show hosts were joined by Peter Dale Scott and David Talbot.
Peter Dale Scott is a retired Canadian diplomat, professor, and a prolific author on politics and history. His books include Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, Drugs, Oil and War, and The American Deep State.
David Talbot is the founder of Salon.com, and now writes for the San Francisco Chronicle. His most recent book is The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government.
In little under an hour they briefly give a history of the Deep State, define the sectors of the Deep State and discuss how factions of the Deep State are working against other factions to control the US and global economies.
They also discuss how groups as disparate as scientists, seniors and BLM are all facing the same adversaries and how they could mobilize and build effective coalitions to fight various right wing factions.
http://projectcensored.org/peter-dale-scott-david-talbot-2/
The podcast where the book The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA and the Rise of America’s Secret Government. was discussed:
http://projectcensored.org/14779-2/
If you have time to listen, both podcasts are utterly fascinating and deeply disturbing.
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The Ministry of Truth
that’s the alternate reality you live in.
Chorus
your outlook on the world is primarily being controlled by the CIA and MSM. That’s why you believe that Russia hacked the election, installed Trump, and invaded Ukraine. You believe what the state tells you to believe. Its 1984. How many fingers am I holding up?
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bunch of good info in this article. Rupert Murdoch, Fox News mogul, part of CIA media control? part of deep state?
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Aint it funny? The Ministry of Truth, as I call this perception management bureaucracy, begins around 1984. How appropriate.
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are you with me so far?
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no?
I see why people here don’t know about the deep state.
the info is readily available.
you don’t know because you don’t want to know.
its called willful ignorance.
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Ukraine Annexed Crimea in the 1990s
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03/28/ukraine-annexed-crimea-1990s/
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US in Iraq “liberated” Mosul after bombing it to bits.
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@abagond
and viet nam. got to do that too. very important for the crisis we are facing.
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lol. did I say ‘crisis’? the first article I read today talks about ‘crisis’. I seem to be right on target.
By Bill Binney and Ray McGovern.
Binney is the NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information, who served as the senior technical director within the agency, who managed six thousand NSA employees, the 36-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency …
McGovern is a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials.
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The Surveillance State Behind Russia-gate
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/03/surveillance-state-behind-russia-gate.html
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Move that clock ahead 2 minutes. Trump has become Hillary Clinton. It happened a lot faster than I thought it would.
they are marching us inexorably into WW III. Both forks in the road led to the same place.
(https://youtu.be/HuvgyTnmUZ0)
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Update: The Doomsday Clock has moved forward 30 seconds to two minutes before midnight, the worst it has been since 1953.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-42823734
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