Disclaimer: I have not been to the museum. This post is based on media hype in the Guardian, New Yorker and The Root that came out before the museum opened.
NMAAHC (2016-), the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington, DC, is the first national museum of Black history in the US. It opens today, Saturday September 24th 2016, a 101-year-old dream come true. It was opened by President Obama, the country’s first Black president.
It is not the Smithsonian’s first Black museum: it has an African art museum and the Black-oriented Anacostia Community Museum.
The building is brown while next door the Smithsonian’s (White) American history museum is white! NMAAHC looks like a modern art museum, not a Roman temple. The shape is based on the crown of an African queen, its angles matching those of the nearby Washington monument. David Adjaye, a British-Ghanaian architect, was the lead designer.
Lower floors: Because of height limits, half the building is underground. That is used to effect: when you take the elevator to the bottom, it counts the years backwards like a time machine: 2015 … 1776 … to the early 1400s. You soon find yourself in a slave ship! From there you work your way up through history to the ground floor, going through slavery, civil war, Emancipation, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement, the inauguration of President Obama, all the way to Black Lives Matter. Freedom is still a work in progress.
It is not a feel-good history: revolution is set next to counter-revolution, atrocity against protest. “It takes a nation of millions to hold us back.” You see the auction block – and shackles made for a child. You see a statue of Thomas Jefferson and his fine words, but behind him on the wall are the names of his slaves, one brick, one slave. Later you stand in a real slave cabin built in the 1840s: it feels like you are back in time. You see a Klan hood – and walk past the casket of Emmett Till.
Artefacts: NMAAHC has thousands of artefacts, everything from Nat Turner’s Bible to Michael Jackson’s fedora, from a Tuskegee airmen training plane to the P-Funk Mothership; from the dress Rosa Parks was sewing the day she got arrested, to the dress Michelle Obama wore the day she became First Lady.
Upper floors: After travelling through history, you can sit in the Contemplative Court (or maybe eat at the Sweet Home Cafe) before moving on to the upper floors to see Black achievements in art, music, sports, science and politics, from Muhammad Ali’s boxing gloves to Ben Carson’s lab coat to J Dilla’s MPC. You can see art from people like Kara Walker, Joshua Johnson, Robert Duncanson and Mae Weems.
The view: After the art museum you get a wonderful view where you can see the White House and the memorials to Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr.
President Obama is glad the museum is opening this weekend in the wake of Charlotte and Tulsa: maybe it will help the country to understand what it is going through.
Tickets are free but you might have to reserve online in advance.
– Abagond, 2016.
See also:
- Smithsonian
- Washington, DC
- Charlotte and Tulsa
- Emmett Till
- Kara Walker
- Tuskegee airmen
- Nat Turner
- Black Lives Matter
- 16th Street Baptist Church bombing
616
Sounds amazing I would love to visit the museum.
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The African American History Museum is cool, But, right now, that’s like opening up a holocaust museum during the middle of a holocaust.
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Interesting.
I wonder if this historical museum will have any exhibitions/revelations on items like this:
http://www.blacklistednews.com/_Pentagon_Admits_To_Using_Black_Soldiers_As_Test_Subjects_During_WWII/54248/0/38/38/Y/M.html
Police – Hospitals – Vaccinations – GMO/Hybrid foods – Governments: untrustworthy systems, imo.
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Abagond, thank you for this. I wish I was better-equipped to write about all that is going on in these alleged United States of America like you. I’m not.
On CNN, juxtaposed against the opening of the Museum are the deaths of Keith Scott and Terence Crutcher and I’m just undone. Thank you for being “The Lighthouse” my Brother — just thank you.
The slave cabin was taken from Edisto Island, the birthplace of my Mama’s family. I’ll be going to the Museum as soon as I can work it out with my sons’ schedules, because I want them to see it and tie it into the summers they spent on the island every summer when my Mama would take them in Charleston to give me and the husband a break every year, no matter where w were stationed. I’m so damned FULL right now, Family — a state in which I’ve been since moving back home in 2014. From the deaths of Denzell Curnell (http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/TheBattery/archives/2014/07/15/denzel-curnell-shooting-read-the-officers-full-account), Walter Scott, the Emanuel 9, Joyce Curnell (http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20160224/PC16/160229636), Keith Scott (his mother lives here on one of the barrier islands right outside of Charleston — I’m f*ckin’ emotionally, spiritually and physically whipped.
Thank you so much for telling the stories, Brother. I appreciate you, more than you will ever know…
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@Deb: Keep your head up Sis stay strong.
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I wonder how many white people will visit the museum will it cause them to think about this system their forefathers and ancestors created? If and when they visit will they care or understand that black lives do truly matter?
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Is it a coincidence that the opening of the museum with all of our history happened in the middle of the police killings of black men and the protest of those killings. Yet a large segment of white Americans want to tell us to forget the past and stop talking about racism it find that to be ironic.
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Are you kidding, it will probably be predominantly white people visiting this after the initial novelty wears off. White people love to visit this sort of stuff and take it very seriously, without them there be hardly any visitors. This past summer some old white lady, with her own money, started her own African-American museum somewhere in the South.
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This why you don’t let non- “African Americans” tell “African-American” history. They didn’t even have the decency to get an African-American architect. They had to import an African from Britain, just like they passed off a half-white/half-Kenyan President and convinced everyone he was the same as every other “African-American”.
Second, the design is ugly and highly compromised. Maybe its original concept would have been marginally acceptable, but they have bastardized it. I’ll bet it won’t last 40 years.
Third, it focuses too much on slavery, segregation and entertainment, in true stereotypical form. Seriously lacking on inventors and pioneers. I will boycott it, just like I boycotted the Chinese-designed MLK memorial down there.
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This museum is amazing, I can’t wait to bring my daughters there – they are still young and have no idea what their ancestors went through.
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Reblogged this on Teach2Know.
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@resw You make some great points. I too think the story of African Americans should be told by us and only us. Just like the wave of African American historical movies are being directed by Black Brits or are usually starring Black Brits (12 Years a Slave, Selma, etc.) I find that undermining. And I did not know the Chinese built the MLK monument in DC. Just wow.
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resw
‘just like they passed off a half-white/half-Kenyan President and convinced everyone he was the same as every other “African-American”.’ great point
starrone83
‘Chinese built the MLK monument in DC’
It’s by design. Black Americans are being reengineered. They’ve already transformed us from advocates of civil rights to lovers of war.
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“Third, it focuses too much on slavery, segregation and entertainment, in true stereotypical form. Seriously lacking on inventors and pioneers. I will boycott it, just like I boycotted the Chinese-designed MLK memorial down there.” – resw
This is very true. Personally, get the feeling that this museum is designed to lull Black folks to sleep, … again. Just as soon as more of us are becoming conscious of the cyclical propensity of Amerika to manufacture the appearance of social progress, when in fact, the social clock has been reset to circa 1860, … in 2016 (smh).
The so-called elite whites in positions of power are continually studying us to counter our awakening as a people. They do this by sliding a few crumbs off of the table in the direction of a few selected darkies, in order to pacify the billowing discontent that is currently sweeping Amerika amongst Black people.
I don’t give a crap about the opening of a museum because black men, women and children are still being shot down in the streets of Amerika by white police officers without provocation or justification and without sincere judicial redress. I could care less about this museum because the ushering in of mass incarceration of Black people has officially replaced slavery. I don’t give a sh#t about this museum of history because it’s actually Black holocaust museum. Trust me, an appropriately titled holocaust building recognizing our wretched history in this bedeviled country would not only signify, but mean much more to the restoration of our collective psyche.
As for myself, I refer to a goldfish as a goldfish, a museum as a museum and a holocaust memorial as a holocaust memorial when it involves the intentional, mass slaughtering of human beings for no other reason than for being who they are.
Group manipulation of a people to get them to not act at all or to act against their own self interest is quite easy these days through mass media or tell-lie-vision and referring to things by titling or naming of buildings other than what they truly are. This is done so to keep a certain group of people in a state of docility.
The only thing different regarding today’s mass incarceration (slavery) and the actual period of slavery is the method and its gradient has been substantially lessened. Nonetheless, it’s still a form of subjugation under the hegemony of white supremacy.
Rest assured, this museum alone profoundly testifies against this country history of brutality against us. But yet, some presuppose that all so-called African-Americans are supposed to be happy-go-lucky KneeGroes due to the opening of a museum. Not here!
When those fake jueISH, Khazarian people commemorate their fallen ones, they do so at a holocaust memorial, … not a museum. Black folks on this board should asking themself the following question: Why is it that we commemorate our 300 brutal years of historical which lasted merely 12 years (1933-1945)?
Instead of KneeGroes getting happy about this museum, they should be mad as hell and enough to move us in the direction of organized rebellion and refrain from petty quarrelling amongst us. I remain unimpressed and will not be placated by the opening of a museum. However, to each his own!
Definitions:
Holocaust – destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.
Museum – a building in which objects of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are stored and exhibited.
Abagond, I apologize for this long rant.
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Correction:
Why is it that we commemorate our 300 cumulative years of brutalization with a museum as opposed to a holocaust memorial, such as the fake jueISH people, which lasted merely 12 years (1933-1945)?
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@ Mary Burrell…Thanx for the love, Lil Sis — I’m workin’ through it. There’s another young Lil Sis like you I’ve had on instant replay lately (helping me to GET why I’m back here): (https://youtu.be/uZ5V6QuAC24)
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I love that the museum is not designed with European heritage pillars and domes, like the ones of the temple of the Roman god Baccus. It sends a message that this is not just any museum but the museum of African American history. People passing by will ask themselves, what is that, what is it for and why is it so different? Then they go inside and take a journey. One day I will see it.
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@starrone83
“I find that undermining. And I did not know the Chinese built the MLK monument in DC.”
IMO that’s 100% intentional.
@blakksage
“The so-called elite whites in positions of power are continually studying us to counter our awakening as a people. ”
Barack Obama is the perfect example. It’s all an illusion.
@villagewriter
“I love that the museum is not designed with European heritage pillars and domes, like the ones of the temple of the Roman god Baccus.”
Different is good, but I just don’t find it aesthetically pleasing.
And I’d rather it have some greater meaning representative of “African American History and Culture”. The story about it symbolically representing a “corona” is just hogwash. Whose corona? No ” ” African American’s! Rather one from “Yoruban art from West Africa”. And I googled “Yoruba corona” and I couldn’t find any image that really resembles this monstrosity.
But that’s not the bad part.
Yoruba leaders were some of the biggest middlemen in the Atlantic slave trade. So why the NMAAHC is honouring the Yoruban leadership when most “African Americans” don’t even have Yoruban ancestry is beyond me.
(Let’s not also forget that pillars and domes are originally African concepts and Bacchus is a derivative of an African god worshipped primarily in Meroe before anyone ever heard of Rome.)
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@Resw
Everybody has an opinion on what is aesthetically good or bad; its in the eye of the beholder. To me, the design is formal and good enough for a museum. Do you prefer a Roman style or Egyptian style design?
@Others
I don’t understand the bile against Alexander Mc Queen and other black directors and actors from other countries depicting African Americans in movies or directing movies about African Americans. In most movies I have watched African Americans depict Africans. For instance, Invictus, Sarafina, Concussion, Black Panther and many others. I personally don’t mind but I do want to know where all the resistance and bile is coming from.
This argument about who should depict who in movies and who should wear what and so on, is a deep hole that will get us nowhere. Its a little xenophobic but I kind of understand the mistrust.
The Museum design was chosen by a group of people (I believe most of the members were AA’s) from several designs that were presented. The Architect did pick inspiration from AA experience in the past and the present and from Yoruba’s.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/q-and-a-with-architect-david-adjaye-18968512/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/david-adjaye-african-american-museum-160922170433117.html
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@villagewriter
“Everybody has an opinion on what is aesthetically good or bad; its in the eye of the beholder.”
Agree, and that’s why I only spoke for myself.
“Do you prefer a Roman style or Egyptian style design?”
Neither.
(1) I’d prefer something designed by an actual black person from America, excluding recent immigrants from Africa or elsewhere, or ad minimum, something that pays homage to what famous African American architects designed.
(2) Again, I’d prefer something that has a meaning that relates to “African Americans”, not some lame excuse for a “Yoruban corona”.
(3) The existing concept was better IMO. What we have now is a rooftop box that does not match the architecture of the rest of the building, and a whole bunch of utilitarian holes throughout the “corona” that undermine the architect’s original concept.
“I believe most of the members were AA’s”
I hate to break it to you, but I counted 5 out of 10 on the design selection “jury” who were not.
And then the design had to go through the majority-white NCPC and the majority-white CFA, and substantial changes were made.
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@Resw
So, you wanted it to be an entirely African American affair. I am sorry but your logic is missing something very important here, that AA history did not begin during slavery. I have read countless articles criticizing the idea that AA history began with slavery. That was the point of the African aesthetic to the design of the building. You also seem unaware that African Americans are involved in various projects in Africa too.From your arguments it seems like there was a conspiracy by Africans to steal from AA’s and that there was no major involvement by AAs in the construction of the building. Are you sure you are specifically angry about the building or is your rant inspired by something deeper and more sinister?
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Here is the crown of the Yoruba Queen; the inspiration behind the design of the museum.
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1996.558/
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/sep/15/smithsonian-national-museum-african-american-history-washington-architecture-review
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@villagewriter
Thank you for that link.
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@villagewriter
“I am sorry but your logic is missing something very important here, that AA history did not begin during slavery.”
No, that’s not my logic, which is my first comment on this page stated my complaint that the museum “focuses too much on slavery”.
“Here is the crown of the Yoruba Queen; the inspiration behind the design of the museum.”
And as we can see, the original design of the building has been compromised. And what does a Yoruba Queen’s crown have to do with “African Americans”? That she sold a few of them into slavery?
Yoruba cro
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@villagewriter
“From your arguments it seems like there was a conspiracy by Africans to steal from AA’s and that there was no major involvement by AAs in the construction of the building”
You can draw whatever conclusion you wish, all I did was stated the facts. It’s a fact that only 50% of the selection committee was black (on the outside at least), a fact that the architect was a foreigner, a fact that the design was changed multiple times after review by majority white NCPC and CFA.
“You also seem unaware that African Americans are involved in various projects in Africa too.”
Not sure what facts you based that on, and I have no clue how that’s remotely relevant.
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@Resw
While you are entitled to your suspicions, I just don’t see the basis for them, I am sorry. The building was not just the work of one architect but only one architect was British-Ghanaian, the rest were African Americans. The director of the museum is African American, the money that went into building it partly came from African Americans, the opening ceremony was attended by African Americans.
I think you smelled the rat after it had died, decayed and turned to dust.
“Not sure what facts you based that on, and I have no clue how that’s remotely relevant.”
African American are involved in projects similar to the museum in Africa and a number are also involved in telling African stories (Abagond for instance). I hope that was clear enough- and I think it is pretty relevant. I finally found the “corona” crown you were looking for. Have a long careful look at it, you might just spot the museum’s design.
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@Resw
You complain the museum deals too much with slavery but you have not seen it yet . You are angry that a Yoruba crown was used as an inspiration, yet there are African Americans that through DNA analysis have Yoruba ancestors and the Yoruba are part of their story. You complain that the design of the museum had to be approved by the NCPC and CFA and I am starting to wonder whether you approve that the Museum is a reality because of white President Bush.
I am afraid you are beginning to sound like the conspiracy theorists who think the world is ruled by Reptilians.
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@villagewriter
“While you are entitled to your suspicions, I just don’t see the basis for them, I am sorry.”
Not sure what suspicions you’re referring to. The facts are just the facts.
“The building was not just the work of one architect but only one architect was British-Ghanaian, the rest were African Americans. ”
Doesn’t change the FACT that the LEAD DESIGNER, the one who actually conceived of the building’s original design, was a foreigner, NOT an “African American”.
“The director of the museum is African American”
And? That doesn’t change the fact that mostly whites had to approve the design and that they changed it, nor does it change the fact that the museum is still a Smithsonian, whose board is mostly white.
“African American are involved in projects similar to the museum in Africa and a number are also involved in telling African stories”
And? That has nothing to do with the NMAAHC.
“Have a long careful look at it, you might just spot the museum’s design”
If you take a “long careful look,” you’d see that the silly crown has two inverted trapezoids, not three. The white committees dictated the change to three. And there’s not box on top of it, another change dictated by the white committees.
But more important, you and anyone else buying the lame excuse are basing it on one single Yoruban statue out of the thousands of depictions of “Yoruban crowns” that look NOTHING like it. Of course any Yoruban would be much more familiar with this crown:
And once again, you couldn’t even explain what a Yoruban crown on one single statue has to do with African Americans.
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@Resw
The museum should have been built in the sky to fit all your requirements; I mean if I was thinking like you, the museum should not have been built by white workers, the engineers should all have been black, and maybe even the visitors should be black.
The British Ghanaian guy participated in a competition and won. So far, no one involved in the choosing of the design has complained about that decision. I think you should leave the Ghanaian out of your “conspiracy” theories and go for the jugular of the 50% African Americans (that’s a significant number) responsible for the decision.
Your assertions are based on irrational perception not solid facts.
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@Resw
The pictures you presented are not the ones that inspired the designer. The carving did. Maybe you can share a link where the designer says that he also used your pictures for inspiration if not, your baseless argument remain baseless.
Again the Yoruba are part of African Americans and black Brazilian history. Do you want the museum to deny that fact?
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@Resw
“Not sure what suspicions you’re referring to. The facts are just the facts.”
People who believe in reptilians also think they have facts. No what you call facts are just perceptions that have do with something else other than the design of the museum. The “foreigner” as you call him, became involved in the project with the approval of African Americans; if you want someone to blame, blame them.
“And? That has nothing to do with the NMAAHC.”
It has everything to do with the Museum. I think you are being intellectually dishonest here. If African Americans can handle African projects so can Africans. The knife cuts both ways. Had an African said the same thing about an African American that you are saying about the Ghanaian it would have turned into a perfect storm. Your assertions are xenophobic and fact-less.
You are going after the “foreigner” because he is easy prey for you. At the same time you are disrespecting the African Americans involved in the project because you seem to think they had had bad judgement in their decisions. They were not tied to the wall and forced to pick a design at gun point; or maybe they did.
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@villagewriter
“You complain the museum deals too much with slavery but you have not seen it yet”
I do not have to see it to know what exhibits there are and what’s in the collection. You do know that information is online. And where’s the exhibit on technology? THERE ISN’T ONE.
“You are angry that a Yoruba crown was used as an inspiration”
I don’t recall saying I was angry about anything. I’ve expressed my complaints, and others have expressed their agreement with them.
“yet there are African Americans that through DNA analysis have Yoruba ancestors and the Yoruba are part of their story”
There are also African Americans “that through DNA analysis have” Mexican ancestry and the Mexicans “are part of their story”. If that’s your logic, they should have considered a design resembling a sombrero too.
But the facts are that very few African Americans have ever taken a DNA test (which are proven to be seriously flawed, I might add), and Yoruban leadership sold the ancestors of African Americans into slavery. I understand why an African designer would choose to honour them, but an African American? Baffling.
“I am afraid you are beginning to sound like the conspiracy theorists who think the world is ruled by Reptilians”
Sorry, but I didn’t theorize about anything. Your nonacceptance of the facts is by no means invalidation.
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@villagewriter
“The pictures you presented are not the ones that inspired the designer. The carving did. ”
No sh!t. If you read I explained exactly how the white committees altered the original design, and how the basis for the original design is not representative of the vast majority of “Yoruban crowns”. Not even close. And that’s also a fact.
“People who believe in reptilians also think they have facts.”
LOL! Because you can’t accept or refute any of the facts, you’re derailing the discussion to talk about reptilians. How pathetic.
“The “foreigner” as you call him, became involved in the project with the approval of African Americans; if you want someone to blame, blame them.”
I do blame them, but as I stated, the design selection committee was only 50% African American anyway.
“It has everything to do with the Museum.”
And yet you still can’t explain WHAT it has to do with the museum.
“Your assertions are xenophobic and fact-less.”
Based on your odd logic, maybe. But certainly not according to any dictionary definition.
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And I must LOL @ ““The “foreigner” as you call him”
No, he IS a foreigner, and that’s a fact, not a conspiracy theory.
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@Resw
“There are also African Americans “that through DNA analysis have” Mexican ancestry and the Mexicans “are part of their story”. If that’s your logic, they should have considered a design resembling a sombrero too.”
Well if you want to add Mexican history go right ahead, add it but that does not cancel out the fact that there are AA’s that have Yoruba ancestors. A sombrero is a great idea too and Mexicans also have African DNA (there was slavery there too). I mean the museum is NMAAHC has an ‘H’ standing for history.
“But the facts are that very few African Americans have ever taken a DNA test (which are proven to be seriously flawed, I might add), and Yoruban leadership sold the ancestors of African Americans into slavery. I understand why an African designer would choose to honour them, but an African American? Baffling.”
So far, you have denied that you don’t want AA history to be limited to slavery (which is part of your history) but at the same time you don’t want anything about the Yoruba involved (they are also part of your history). By the way slavery in West Africa is very complicated (not black and white); start pointing fingers and you might end up pointing fingers at most of the ethnic groups Americans are descended from; unless you “have no African ancestry”. Maybe you are everything else but not African. You might as well deny your African ancestry.
BTW DNA analysis is a pretty solid science; of course, there is room for improvement but it is the most accurate way of establishing someone’s descent.
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“And I must LOL @ ““The “foreigner” as you call him”
No, he IS a foreigner, and that’s a fact, not a conspiracy theory.”
As you lol, let me just clarify that my point was that you are blaming the accomplished architect for the decisions of others (that your conspiracy theory). Childish much.
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@Resw
“No sh!t. If you read I explained exactly how the white committees altered the original design, and how the basis for the original design is not representative of the vast majority of “Yoruban crowns”. Not even close. And that’s also a fact.”
I am sorry but the fact remains that the Yoruban Carving of a queen with a crown is the inspiration for the designer not your pictures. So, your assertions still remain stuck in the baseless section.
“LOL! Because you can’t accept or refute any of the facts, you’re derailing the discussion to talk about reptilians. How pathetic.”
Again, no facts were presented by you for me to refute. Try again, okay.
“I do blame them, but as I stated, the design selection committee was only 50% African American anyway.”
And the 50% were helpless and threatened at gun point? I don’t think so. Or maybe you think they turned into zombies. I mean its possible considering the scope of your logic.
“I’d prefer something designed by an actual black person from America, excluding recent immigrants from Africa or elsewhere, or ad minimum, something that pays homage to what famous African American architects designed.”
“Based on your odd logic, maybe. But certainly not according to any dictionary definition.”
Him being foreign is not really the issue is it? You made it clear here that you don’t want recent African immigrants involved either; that is xenophobia, in fact you sound like Trump . I mean that’s the definition of pathetic. There goes your “odd logic” argument.
“And yet you still can’t explain WHAT it has to do with the museum.”
I have explained it. You must have missed my explanation as you were cooking up another “factual” conspiracy. Don’t blame me like you blame the designer for other people’s undoing-Pleease, I swear I am innocent.
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@villagewriter
“As you lol, let me just clarify that my point was that you are blaming the accomplished architect for the decisions of others”
And where’s the quote where I did that? You don’t need to make up stories to try (desperately) to make a point.
“they are also part of your history”
You don’t know a thing about my history. Speak for yourself.
“BTW DNA analysis is a pretty solid science”
But you could have at least spent a couple of minutes researching before proving your ignorance. Numerous studies published
“I am sorry but the fact remains that the Yoruban Carving of a queen with a crown is the inspiration for the designer not your pictures.”
I’m the first one who said the design was based on a “Yoruban Cornona” FYI. And no one said that it was based on something else. Clearly you can’t read or are being deliberately misleading. My guess is the latter.
“Again, no facts were presented by you for me to refute.”
LOL. Now you’ve resorted to outright lying. Wow, that actually passes for debate on this blog these days.
“And the 50% were helpless and threatened at gun point?”
Again, I said “I do blame them”, so why are you still arguing about it? Regardless, 50% does not a majority make, genius.
“that is xenophobia, in fact you sound like Trump”
Derail again because all of your arguments have failed.
“I have explained it. ”
And your explanation had nothing to do with the NMAAHC.
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@Resw
“And where’s the quote where I did that? You don’t need to make up stories to try (desperately) to make a point. ”
The designer designed a building based on a Yoruba curving. You have consistently called his design ugly and said that he is lying about what inspired him because you could not find it online. You are blaming him for the decision of some people who decided that his “ugly design” was the best.
“You don’t know a thing about my history. Speak for yourself.”
Oh, but I know quite a lot about African American history and if you call yourself African American the Yoruba’s are part of your history. Aren’t you the one emphasizing that they sold African Americans as slaves. Is your brain shutting down.
“But you could have at least spent a couple of minutes researching before proving your ignorance. Numerous studies published ”
Please present your numerous studies and facts. Pathetic.
“I’m the first one who said the design was based on a “Yoruban Cornona” FYI. And no one said that it was based on something else. Clearly you can’t read or are being deliberately misleading. My guess is the latter.”
Yeah the corona on the curving of the Queen. FYI the curving is in the Museum too. Can you stop acting like a drooling idiot.
“LOL. Now you’ve resorted to outright lying. Wow, that actually passes for debate on this blog these days.”
No, Mr or Mrs Loler, your arguments are based on assumptions and putting blame on people who are actually innocent. I beginning to suspect you are not really African American.
“Again, I said “I do blame them”, so why are you still arguing about it? Regardless, 50% does not a majority make, genius.”
Then stop attacking the designer, attack them.
“Derail again because all of your arguments have failed.”
No I am pretty sure you sound like Trump and I have given my reasons why I think so. Your arguments are based on xenophobia, pseudo science and misguided assumptions.
“And your explanation had nothing to do with the NMAAHC.”
It has everything to do with it.
.
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“Again, I said “I do blame them”, so why are you still arguing about it? Regardless, 50% does not a majority make, genius.”””
That is half of the decision makers. If they all decided that the design was ugly they would have prevented the decision to pick the “foreigners” design. If the process was not carried out properly they would have complained. But your brain just exploded with irrational conspiracy theories. 50% is a significant number. Now, try stretching your challenged thinking capacity and imagine an America where 50% of the population is black and significant number of them is well aware of how politics work. That would be a very different more accepting USA. Stop blaming the designer and grow up for a change.
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@villagewriter
“That is half of the decision makers.”
And? I disagree with the decision.
And as you seem to have forgotten, the only reason I raised the issue in the first place was to refute your belief that “most of the members were AA’s”, which is FALSE.
” But your brain just exploded with irrational conspiracy theories.”
Then it should be easy for you to quote just one of them. But you can’t because it’s all in your little brain.
“Stop blaming the designer and grow up for a change.”
No surprise you couldn’t even copy a single quote where anyone did that.
Sorry your lies didn’t work out for ya.
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“LOL. Now you’ve resorted to outright lying. Wow, that actually passes for debate on this blog these days. ”
The premise of your arguments is firmly embedded in assumptions about the decision making process and the inspiration for the design.
About the design:
You insinuate that the designer lied about his inspiration. After I present the curving, you present a group of photos that the designer never said inspired him. You call that a fact?
About DNA
You claim their are numerous studies about DNA analysis being unreliable.You present no links to prove your assertion.
About foreigners:
You say you don’t want recent African immigrants involved in the Museum even though they are also Americans- tha’ts xenophobia. I think this is behind your clear disapproval for the designer too.
You are not debating me. You are giving your opinion and I am criticizing your misguided opinions. Okay.
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“And? I disagree with the decision.
And as you seem to have forgotten, the only reason I raised the issue in the first place was to refute your belief that “most of the members were AA’s”, which is FALSE.”
If you disagree with the decision then blame the decision makers and stop insinuating that they were helpless in the decision making process. I mean calling you a liar would be a disservice to real liars. I said I “believe” I did not say I was sure or it was factual. And when you said they were 50% I did not say you were lying, I responded by saying that 50% is a significant number.
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“No surprise you couldn’t even copy a single quote where anyone did that.
Sorry your lies didn’t work out for ya.”
I actually think you are a childish person. Had you been an actual child I would have ignored your comments. Your comments are all over this comment section if I was lying someone would have called me out for it. SERIOUSLY, GROW UP.
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@villagewriter
” You have consistently called his design ugly”
Yes, I’m entitled to my opinion. Why does that offend you?
“and said that he is lying about what inspired him because you could not find it online. ”
Another lie of yours. Where’s the quote?
“Oh, but I know quite a lot about African American history and if you call yourself African American”
And when did I call myself anything? Where’s the quote?
“Please present your numerous studies and facts.”
Since googling is too hard for you to do:
Click to access Sense-About-Genetic-Ancestry-Testing.pdf
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/genetic-ancestry-testing-is-an-inexact-science-task-force-says/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9912822/DNA-ancestry-tests-branded-meaningless.html
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2007/10/18_genetictesting.shtml
“Yeah the corona on the curving of the Queen. FYI the curving is in the Museum too”
And? Who said it wasn’t? Here you are arguing over something else of no relevance, because your previous argument completely failed.
“No I am pretty sure you sound like Trump and I have given my reasons why I think so. ”
And? Your opinion about what sounds like Trump has absolutely nothing to do with the NMAAHC. Yet another diversion.
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“You insinuate that the designer lied about his inspiration. After I present the curving, you present a group of photos that the designer never said inspired him. ”
Never happened. Either you can’t read or are lying again, just like you’ve already done numerous times.
“I actually think you are a childish person.”
Because I called you out on your lies? Then maybe stop lying and stick to the facts. Not reptilians, Trump or making up things and passing them off as my ideas.
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@Resw
I will look at your links for DNA tests and reply with my own links.
“Yes, I’m entitled to my opinion. Why does that offend you?”
No, childish people rarely offend me. And your opinion is based on xenophobic logic.
“Another lie of yours. Where’s the quote?”
Here is your comment: And I googled “Yoruba corona” and I couldn’t find any image that really resembles this monstrosity.
But that’s not the bad part.
You were insinuating that the designer was lying about his inspiration.
“And when did I call myself anything? Where’s the quote?”
That is why I used the phrase “if you call yourself” but your shifty mind must have sparked with another conspiracy. I don’t care who you are (maybe you are reptilian for all I care) and “if” you are not African American why is the museum design boring a hole in your childish brain.
“And? Who said it wasn’t? Here you are arguing over something else of no relevance, because your previous argument completely failed.”
It has relevance because you presented pictures and allegedly searched online and could not find the Corona the designer was referring to. Had you spent time researching about his inspirations your idiocy would not have poured on this comment section. Telling me my argument has failed is your opinion. My opinion is that your arguments are baseless and you are reporting to calling me a liar to divert attention from your xenophobic arguments that are filled with assumptions.
“And? Your opinion about what sounds like Trump has absolutely nothing to do with the NMAAHC. Yet another diversion.”‘
You sound like Trump because you are xenophobic.
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@villagewriter
“Here is your comment”
And where’s the part where I said “he is lying about what inspired him”?
Oh right, you made that part up because you’re a liar.
“but your shifty mind must have sparked with another conspiracy”
And you still couldn’t copy a single quote to prove your lie.
“It has relevance because you presented pictures and allegedly searched online and could not find the Corona the designer was referring to.”
Yes, to make the point that most “Yoruban coronas” were not like this one. It is an exception. If you could read, you would’ve figured that out by now.
“Telling me my argument has failed is your opinion.”
It’s fact since you didn’t prove your points. Sorry, you can only blame yourself for your own failures.
“You sound like Trump because you are xenophobic.”
And that opinion has no relevance to the NMAAHC. You can’t stay on topic because you don’t know anything about the topic.
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@Resw
I take back what I said about DNA testing. The links you gave me were quite informative. They all seem to be pointing out that finding your exact ancestors or ethnic group you descend from is not possible and that it also depends on the methods used to test your DNA. Probably that’s why they offer more than one possible ethnic group for some people who use ancestry.com to find their ancestry. It is possible to find the origin of your ancestors using a combination of historical records and genetic information according to Sense-about-genes.
As far as ancestry testing is concerned it is not easy but DNA testing is still a good way to find people who are related.
“Oh right, you made that part up because you’re a liar.”
I said you insinuated that he was lying. Try using a dictionary next time.
“And you still couldn’t copy a single quote to prove your lie.”
Actually I listed the conspiracy theories you were spewing on this comment section. Remember insinuating that the 50% were somehow helpless in the decision making process and that there was a conspiracy to pick the ugliest design for the museum. Did your memory go on a vacation.
“Yes, to make the point that most “Yoruban coronas” were not like this one. It is an exception. If you could read, you would’ve figured that out by now.”
Had you researched about the designer you would have found out the Corona he was talking about. But you thought he was party of a larger conspiracy. Pathetic.
“It’s a fact since you didn’t prove your points. Sorry, you can only blame yourself for your own failures.”
I have proven my points and even copied and pasted your exact comments. Again your shifty mind thinks I have failed. Don’t blame me for your comprehension challenge.
“And that opinion has no relevance to the NMAAHC. You can’t stay on topic because you don’t know anything about the topic.”
It has relevance because you made it relevant by saying that recent African migrants should not be involved in the design of the African American design. You are xenophobic.
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“And that opinion has no relevance to the NMAAHC. You can’t stay on topic because you don’t know anything about the topic.”
It has relevance because you made it relevant by saying that recent African migrants should not be involved in the design of the NMAAHC design. You are xenophobic.
Your exact comments: I’d prefer something designed by an actual black person from America, excluding recent immigrants from Africa or elsewhere, or ad minimum, something that pays homage to what famous African American architects designed.
Again, I’d prefer something that has a meaning that relates to “African Americans”, not some lame excuse for a “Yoruban corona”.
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I wonder how many African Americans hold the view that African immigrants should not be involved in the design of monuments that celebrate African Americans. David Adjaye’s country of origin Ghana has offered AA’s who want to move to Africa an option to become citizens in the country.
AA’s are involved in various projects that tell African stories, African fashion industry, African movie industry. They are everywhere from Ghana to South Africa. I am not sure whether Resw is reptilian or AA but I would love to hear from a real AA about this matter.
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@villagewriter
“I take back what I said about DNA testing”
Of course you will because you showed everyone what an ignorant fool you are. It’s another thing you were wrong about and another thing I had to educate you on today. Yet instead of thanking me, you continue your nonsense.
“I said you insinuated that he was lying. Try using a dictionary next time.”
I guess you forgot that was AFTER your lie that I “said that he is lying about what inspired him”. You just switched it up after your lie was called out.
“Actually I listed the conspiracy theories you were spewing on this comment section. ”
Another lie. You just don’t stop. And again, where’s the quote?
“Had you researched about the designer you would have found out the Corona he was talking about”
And had you researched, you’d see that that corona doesn’t resemble the vast majority of “Yoruban coronas”. That’s the point.
“I have proven my points and even copied and pasted your exact comments”
You haven’t proven a thing except that you were wrong on many of your arguments (do I need to list them?) and lied about most of the rest. So anyone can see that all you’ve proven was that you’re ignorant and a liar.
“It has relevance because you made it relevant by saying that recent African migrants should not be involved in the design of the African American design. You are xenophobic”
Those are not my words, and since you clearly don’t know what “xenophobic” means, here is the definition: “fear or hatred of strangers or foreigners”.
So where’s the quote where I said anything to express fear or hatred of strangers or foreigners let alone anyone. I’ll wait.
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“Of course you will because you showed everyone what an ignorant fool you are. It’s another thing you were wrong about and another thing I had to educate you on today. Yet instead of thanking me, you continue your nonsense””
Now I am definitely not going to thank you; because you are clearly gloating. I may have been ignorant about the specifics of the science involved but it is still possible to trace ancestry using a combination of DNA tests and Historical records. The tests do give generalized answers but it gives the person tested an idea of who were his or her descendants.
Note: The argument was not just about the DNA but the museum and who was supposed to design it or not.
“I guess you forgot that was AFTER your lie that I “said that he is lying about what inspired him”. You just switched it up after your lie was called out. ”
I said you insinuated; meaning you gave the impression that there was something amiss with the designers claims about what inspired him. I will continue drumming this into your head and until you absorb it.
“Another lie. You just don’t stop. And again, where’s the quote? ”
Remember insinuating that the 50% were somehow helpless in the decision making process and that there was a conspiracy to pick the ugliest design for the museum. Did your memory go on a vacation. That is the answer I will continue giving you.
“And had you researched, you’d see that that corona doesn’t resemble the vast majority of “Yoruban coronas”. That’s the point.”
Again, the designer was not inspired by the vast majority of coronas but the specific corona on the head of the carving-thus the carving is included in the Museum. Drink some water and read that again.
“You haven’t proven a thing except that you were wrong on many of your arguments (do I need to list them?) and lied about most of the rest. So anyone can see that all you’ve proven was that you’re ignorant and a liar.”
– have proven that you are a childish xenophobe.
-I have proven that the museum designer was inspired by a carving with a corona.
-I have proven that most of your comments are based on assumptions and suspicions about the bodies that approved the design including the group that had 50% African Americans.
“Those are not my words, and since you clearly don’t know what “xenophobic” means, here is the definition: “fear or hatred of strangers or foreigners”. ”
They are a paraphrase of your words and I provided a copy pasted comment from you. I know the meaning of xenophobic. Your assertions against including African immigrants in the design of the museum is based on the fact they are “foreign” to you; they are the “other”.
Wikipedia: Xenophobia is the fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange.[1][2] Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.[3] Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an “uncritical exaltation of another culture” in which a culture is ascribed “an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality”.[3]
If these are not the reason you want them excluded, I am very curious why you prefer that they be left out. Are you still waiting?
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@villagewriter
“Now I am definitely not going to thank you”
No surprise. You’ve convinced everyone that you’re not only ignorant and a liar, but now ungrateful.
“I said you insinuated”
AFTER your lie that I “said that he is lying about what inspired him”
And FYI, whatever you think I insinuated is your OPINION. Not fact. Learn the difference.
“Remember insinuating that the 50% were somehow helpless in the decision ”
And no one did that. Yet another lie.
“have proven that you are a childish xenophobe”
No, you’ve proven that you don’t know the definition of a xenophone. I had to educate you on that one too.
“I have proven that most of your comments are based on assumptions”
LOL. And when did that happen?
I can’t understand who would stoop so low as to lie as much as you have. It’s unreal. It’s really not that serious.
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resw wrote: “Seriously lacking on inventors and pioneers.” Like Juan Garrido, who explored Florida in 1508, how about Estevanico who “discovered” New Mexico? Funny thing is that they were both born in Africa.
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@gro jo
And?
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Wouldn’t your narrow definition exclude them from the pantheon of African American explorers? Would you also exclude Point Du Sable as the founder of Chicago, or Jan Matzeliger since they were born in other parts of the American continent than the USA? That would make three explorers and one inventor you criterion seems to exclude. Say it ain’t so?
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your criterion
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@gro jo
“Wouldn’t your narrow definition exclude them from the pantheon of African American explorers? ”
And where’d you get that idea. Quote it.
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@Resw
No surpriAnd I googled “Yoruba corona” and I couldn’t find any image that really resembles this monstrosity.
But that’s not the bad part. se. You’ve convinced everyone that you’re not only ignorant and a liar, but now ungrateful.
Gloating again like a child. No appreciation coming from me.
“AFTER your lie that I “said that he is lying about what inspired him”
And FYI, whatever you think I insinuated is your OPINION. Not fact. Learn the difference.”
Xenophobe here is the proof. Drink another glass of water and read
Two insuanuations:
Insinuation one: Again, I’d prefer something that has a meaning that relates to “African Americans”, not some lame excuse for a “Yoruban corona”.
Insinuation 2: And I googled “Yoruba corona” and I couldn’t find any image that really resembles this monstrosity.
But that’s not the bad part.
Two insinuations in one comment section is enough for me to conclude you thought he was lying. Pathetic.
“No, you’ve proven that you don’t know the definition of a xenophone. I had to educate you on that one too.”
Yet you still can’t answer why you want recent African immigrants excluded in the design of any AA monument. That is evidence of xenophobia. Proves how pathetic you are.
“LOL. And when did that happen?
I can’t understand who would stoop so low as to lie as much as you have. It’s unreal. It’s really not that serious.”
You creating an impression that 50% of the decision makers were somehow helpless and could not stop the others from picking the accomplished architect’s design (assumption one). That the designer was allegedly lying when he said he was inspired by a Yoruba corona ( a carving with a corona was his inspiration not your pictures). That the majority CFA and the NCPC somehow conspired to pick the worst possible design because they were a majority white group (another childish conspiracy).
You are a conspiracy theorist Resw, that’s what you are. African Americans were involved in significant numbers in the decision making process and they will be the ones running the museum.
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@villagewriter
“Gloating again like a child.”
It’s much better than being wrong again like an idiot.
“That is evidence of xenophobia.”
No, it only proves you still don’t know what “xenophobia” means.
“You creating an impression that 50% of the decision makers were somehow helpless ”
That’s all in your head. Of course it never happened, which is why you couldn’t even quote it. But lying is your forte.
“Yet you still can’t answer why you want recent African immigrants excluded in the design of any AA monument.”
If you actually read, it’d be clear that it’s a museum of AFRICAN AMERICAN history and culture. If you want foreigners determining what constitutes African American history and culture, that’s your prerogative. But many African Americans would disagree with you.
“You are a conspiracy theorist Resw”
And you’ve said that several times and have yet to quote a single example of any conspiracy theory I divulged. What are you waiting for?
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About the assumptions and conspiracy theories:
“You can draw whatever conclusion you wish, all I did was stated the facts. It’s a fact that only 50% of the selection committee was black (on the outside at least), a fact that the architect was a foreigner, a fact that the design was changed multiple times after review by majority white NCPC and CFA.”
“If you take a “long careful look,” you’d see that the silly crown has two inverted trapezoids, not three. The white committees dictated the change to three. And there’s not box on top of it, another change dictated by the white committees.”
There is no evidence that the majority white committee dictated anything. Its another of your many conspiracy theories.
50% is a significant number- no evidence that they were pushed to agree with the decision and no evidence that they were not satisfied with the design picked.
About the your xenophobic self:
“I’d prefer something designed by an actual black person from America, excluding recent immigrants from Africa or elsewhere, or ad minimum, something that pays homage to what famous African American architects designed”
You want them excluded because you feel they can dilute the AA experience. There is no other reason you can give that would get you away from the xenophobia bracket. Maybe the museum should have been built in the sky to satisfy your requirements because at every step of the process something tainted by people from another race, country or ethnicity will dilute the purity of the African American symbols. Go right ahead and criticize the builders that built the museum but were not really AA . Maybe they planted a bomb in the building or did not build a firm foundation for it.
You are a pathetic xenophobe
About the Corona:
“Again, I’d prefer something that has a meaning that relates to “African Americans”, not some lame excuse for a “Yoruban corona”.
Insinuation 2: And I googled “Yoruba corona” and I couldn’t find any image that really resembles this monstrosity.
But that’s not the bad part. ”
The Corona that inspired him was a carving from Yoruba people not your collection of conveniently gathered Google Image pictures. You were insinuating that he was lying but he was not. The museum has the carving maybe when you visit you can ask the director what it means.
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About xenophobia:
“This why you don’t let non- “African Americans” tell “African-American” history. They didn’t even have the decency to get an African-American architect. They had to import an African from Britain, just like they passed off a half-white/half-Kenyan President and convinced everyone he was the same as every other “African-American”.
Second, the design is ugly and highly compromised. Maybe its original concept would have been marginally acceptable, but they have bastardized it. I’ll bet it won’t last 40 years.”
You want recent African immigrants excluded and you also want children born of African immigrants excluded (Xenophobia) from telling African American history and you don’t think they are actually black (you want them to be pure African American) Disgusting xenophobe.
The last time I checked Obama was elected by all races including “the pure AAs” two times.
They bastardized it because you assume they did not because you have facts to prove your point. GROW UP
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@Resw the xenophobe
“I will boycott it, just like I boycotted the Chinese-designed MLK memorial down there.”
Boycott any AA center, any AA building , any AA monument that was built by any other race or ethnicity different from “pure AAs”. If there was no “pure AA” involvement from its conception, to its design, to its builders: boycott.
You see. Hitlerish behavior is not just something observable on white racists but also on xenophobes of any race.
The museum has been built and I wish I was there so I could visit it today. If you don’t like it, maybe you should have presented you won design (remember only pure AA designs qualify). Pathetic xenophobe.
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@Resw the xenophobe
“This why you don’t let non- “African Americans” tell “African-American” history. They didn’t even have the decency to get an African-American architect. They had to import an African from Britain, just like they passed off a half-white/half-Kenyan President and convinced everyone he was the same as every other “African-American”.”
Putting quotations on the phrase African-American is also a sign that you probably believe that it is not qualifier for pure “AAs”. You do it because you believe that they should have nothing to do with Africa and anything from Africa should not be associated with them. The evidence for this is, you don’t think the inclusion of Yoruba inspired designs was appropriate.
If AA history did not begin in slavery times, then the Yoruba and other West African ethnic groups have everything to do with their history. Unless you believe AAs are the new Israelites or are actually Polynesians. If you exclude the African part of the AA story, you will also have to exclude the slavery part and also every other African influence in AA culture.
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resw, you wrote: “This why you don’t let non- “African Americans” tell “African-American” history. They didn’t even have the decency to get an African-American architect. They had to import an African from Britain, just like they passed off a half-white/half-Kenyan President and convinced everyone he was the same as every other “African-American”.”
Since you can’t accept Obama as African American, he was born in the USA, how could you, in good conscience, claim the explorers and inventor who were all born outside the USA, or before there was a USA?
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@gro jo
“he was born in the USA”
Many people were born in the USA. Does that mean they’re African American?
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resw, I love your sophistries. Nobody can get a straight answer from you, but I’ll try all the same. Do you or do you not consider Juan Garrido, Estevanico, J-B. Point Du Sable and Jan Matzeliger to be non-African Americans due to their births outside the USA, and therefore unworthy of being included in the pantheon of African Americans? If you do, tell me why Obama doesn’t make the cut, as your comment above implies? Explain to me, given the one drop rule, how a half-Kenyan , half-white American like Obama isn’t simply an African American?
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“Many people were born in the USA. Does that mean they’re African American?”
Yes, if one of their parents is black. Did you repeal the one drop rule?
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@villagewriter
You are working way too hard with resw. He is making outrageous claims and all manner of fallacious arguments that he can’t back up. That is how he operates most of the time.
Your well reasoned arguments and documentation (plus gro-jo’s queries) are ignored because resw doesn’t really have any coherent answers. Namecalling is his first and last line of defense.
Abagond wrote an enlightening post about levels of disagreement in 2010. It is worth a read.
◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇
As to “pure AA’s”, that is something of an oxymoron. African Americans/Black Americans are a blended people. The blood of four continents flows through our veins: Africa, Europe, The Americas and to a lesser extent, Asia. Nearly all AA’s (like me) have relatives who could pass for European and some who have a “Ghanaian look” and everything in between.
We share a group culture, but even that varies from region to region. We are a pretty exogamous group. We tend to intermingle with everyone. It is both a weakness and a strength.
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@ villagewriter
I agree with Afrofem. Resw is sometimes a troll. You are never going to “persuade” him – especially since he might already secretly agree with you. Just state your side and let reasonable people come to their own conclusions.
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Afrofem, No way in hell is resw a “he”. I do enjoy her sophistries. Somebody like that should be handled by asking them questions to keep them busy inventing outlandish nonsense. Villagewriter made the mistake of taking resw seriously.
” We are a pretty exogamous group. We tend to intermingle with everyone. It is both a weakness and a strength.” If society is a fraction, does that make Blacks the least common denominator?
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@Afrofrem
The first African American I ever met was a reverend who come to preach out our small Anglican Church in our small town. I could see she was black but then she was also very light-skinned more light-skinned than the Asians (Indians) in our town. I was just a little boy in primary school then. The service that Sunday was great and she couldn’t stop commenting about how everyone was smiling and hugging. She was from Texas and she was friends with the Anglican Arch Bishop of our church diocese.
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Afrofem, No way in hell is resw a “he”.
You may be right!
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@gro jo
“If society is a fraction, does that make Blacks the least common denominator?”
In US society, European descent people are still the least common denominator.
Those early European explorers were always “discovering” women of other cultures.
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@ villagewriter
“maybe you are reptilian for all I care”
LOL
“I don’t understand the bile against Alexander Mc Queen and other black directors and actors from other countries depicting African Americans in movies or directing movies about African Americans. In most movies I have watched African Americans depict Africans. For instance, Invictus, Sarafina, Concussion, Black Panther and many others… AA’s are involved in various projects that tell African stories, African fashion industry, African movie industry. They are everywhere from Ghana to South Africa.”
I’m European American, not African American, but the trend of non-US black actors starring in movies like “Twelve Years a Slave” had been bothering me as well. You made some very good points that I hadn’t considered before and caused me to start rethinking the matter.
I’m still not entirely comfortable with it, but you’re very right to point out that African Americans have played Africans in numerous movies and tv shows like the original “Roots” miniseries.
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@ resw
Deleted three of your comments for not calling another commenter by their right name.
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@abagond
“You are never going to “persuade” him”
Right, because we should all agree with you, Afrofem and villagewriter?
Shows how intolerant you are.
@gro jo
“Afrofem, No way in hell is resw a “he”.”
Another example showing how sexist you are. Keep it coming.
@Afrofem
“He is making outrageous claims and all manner of fallacious arguments that he can’t back up. ”
You clearly have not been following along since in reality villagewriter is the one who’s done nothing but make “fallacious arguments” such as these:
Villagewriter said: “I believe most of the members were AA’s” yet 5 of the 10 design selection jury membersare not, e.g., Robert Kogod, Robert Campbell, Adèle Naudé Santos, and James A. Johnson.
Villagewriter said: “BTW DNA analysis is a pretty solid science” and after being proven wrong yet again said:
“I take back what I said about DNA testing. The links you gave me were quite informative.”
Villagewriter said: “There is no evidence that the majority white committee dictated anything” to which I responded with proof, which abagond then deleted. So once again here’s the proof:
NCPC changes are here: https://www.ncpc.gov/files/projects/National_Museum_of_African_American_History_and_Culture_Submission_Materials_6331_Mar2014.pdf
NCPC member composition is here: https://www.ncpc.gov/ncpc/Main(T2)/About_Us(tr2)/About_Us(tr3)/Commission.html
And here’s a great article detailing the changes I discussed earlier: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/museums-galleries/article/20833780/the-design-evolution-of-the-national-museum-of-african-american-history-and-culture
Once again Afrofem and villagewriter are proven wrong with facts. Sorry to disappoint your hopes of it being a “conspiracy theory”.
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“@gro jo
“Afrofem, No way in hell is resw a “he”.”
Another example showing how sexist you are. Keep it coming.”
So, you own up to being a male? My apologies for the inadvertent gender reassignment. See what happens when you stop trying so hard to be ‘cute’?
Now admit that you wrote the nonsense you did about David Adjaye, not because you have a foolproof definition of what an African American is, but because you’re jealous of his success. Come on, it won’t hurt one bit.
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@Solitare
I understand but there are not that many African actors in Hollywood (I hear its had to succeed in the movie industry) but I have noticed that White Australian, Canadian and British actors are getting more gigs in major movies though.
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@gro jo
“So, you own up to being a male?”
No one admitted anything. But nice try, sexist.
“Now admit that you wrote the nonsense you did about David Adjaye”
The only thing I said about David Adjaye was that he was an “an African from Britain” and a “foreigner” both of which are 100% true. Feel free to refute it with proof.
Since you can’t, run along as I think I’ve given you enough of the attention for which you so desperately yearn.
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God, I’m mad about you! Back you go to being a girl, as far as I’m concerned.
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I’m not bothered If Blacks play different theatrical roles that are not representative of where they originally came from. I mean isn’t that what actors do ? lol I don’t think it makes the part less authentic and it’s not the same as white actors playing Asian parts in movies.
I look at the museum as being a good beginning and I imagine that over the upcoming years more history and recognition of different achievements will be added. Its content will evolve the same way that all museums do.
For me it’s less important the back story of how the building was built and more important that what is represented there is presented historically accurate and hasn’t been “white washed” for white people consumption.
I’ve always imagined resw as being a white male in an interacial relationship who relates politically more to Ron Paul then to a particular party. I have no idea really and am more concerned with ideas shared then what sort of person shares them.
When posters have anonymous names my mind developes pictures of them as a way of remembering them. When Afrofem first posted I imagined a young college student. But the more she posted the older she became in my mind as she shared life experience and wisdom indicating a mature women. I imagine Solitare as my Kindergarten teacher. Gro Jo wears disheaveld attire, is surrounded by books and smokes cigars. Allan Shaw is a teenager. I better stop and don’t take take my mental pictures seriously lol.
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@gro jo
“God, I’m mad about you! Back you go to being a girl, as far as I’m concerned.”
Not sure how that’s relevant to the NMAAHC. But I guess when you have absolutely nothing to contribute, it’s time for your usual attention-seeking diversion.
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Obvious that you enjoy the attention I lavish on you. Why respond otherwise? You still owe me an answer to the following: “Do you or do you not consider Juan Garrido, Estevanico, J-B. Point Du Sable and Jan Matzeliger to be non-African Americans due to their births outside the USA, and therefore unworthy of being included in the pantheon of African Americans? If you do, tell me why Obama doesn’t make the cut, as your comment above implies? Explain to me, given the one drop rule, how a half-Kenyan , half-white American like Obama isn’t simply an African American?”
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“When posters have anonymous names my mind developes pictures of them as a way of remembering them. When Afrofem first posted I imagined a young college student. But the more she posted the older she became in my mind as she shared life experience and wisdom indicating a mature women. I imagine Solitare as my Kindergarten teacher. Gro Jo wears disheaveld attire, is surrounded by books and smokes cigars. Allan Shaw is a teenager. I better stop and don’t take take my mental pictures seriously lol.”
.
Funny. I think you and I see on a similar wavelength. LOL
Our biggest difference is perhaps Allan Shaw who I see as an elder retired Mr Potato/Bobble Head who lives in a rose colored bubble complex for exceptional Negroes who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and believes that everyone else should to, no excuses!
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@ Michael Jon Barker
“I imagine Solitare as my Kindergarten teacher.”
Good lord.
My kindergarten teacher was a battle-ax from h*ll. We were all terrified of her, even the big sixth graders.
“When Afrofem first posted I imagined a young college student. But the more she posted the older she became in my mind as she shared life experience and wisdom indicating a mature women.”
She said something early on that indicated her approximate age, but for some reason I still see her as a young woman, only in a 1960s/1970s setting. Bell-bottoms, flowers in her hair, black power salute.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
“So, what am I?”
Mel Gibson in “Braveheart” — blue warpaint on your face and roaring defiance at the English.
Only a kind of nerdy hipster Mel Gibson, with eyeglasses and a Boston accent.
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@ LoM
“Abagond is like God in the movies”
Thanks, now my image of Abagond looks like Morgan Freeman.
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@michaeljonbarker @Fan @Solitaire @Lord of Mirkwood
Your comments are absolutely hilarious!
I think we all mentally fill in how the other commenters look and behave off-line, their life experiences, even the cadences of their voices.
Those are the limitations and joys of posting on forums like Abagond’s Cafe.
I totally agree with MJB when he says: “I have no idea really and am more concerned with ideas shared then what sort of person shares them.”
I think of most of the regular commenters as people who surround themselves with books, magazines, interesting music (whatever that means to them) and like me battle to keep their computer desktop clear of numerous articles, videos and podcast files they constantly consume.
For the record, I am a mature Black woman with glasses. I ditched the bell bottoms a while ago and avoided the flowers. LOL!
MJB has an approximate image of himself, so I don’t have to guess.
Fan – A mature Black man, whose eyes have seen more trouble than they ever wanted to witness in this lifetime.
Solitaire – A late 30s White woman with arched eyebrows and an ear for music and conversation.
LoM – Young, White man with sandy hair and a thin build. I imagine your voice rising with unrestrained emotion when you discuss either American history or Eire.
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@ Afrofem
I’ve been told I still look that young if you ignore the premature gray hair. But I’m pretty sure I’ve said elsewhere that my spouse and I have been together ~30 years, and I don’t want LoM to think I was some barefoot Appalachian child bride!
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Correction: michaeljonbarker used to post a thumbnail image of himself. Haven’t seen it for a while.
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@Afrofem
The thumbnail pops up when I log in with Facebook. Clicking it takes you to my FB page. I mostly post from my phone which logs me into WordPress. I don’t work in an office I’m out driving around L.A. everyday.
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*Clicking my name takes you to my FB page.
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@Afrofem
“Fan – A mature Black man, whose eyes have seen more trouble than they ever wanted to witness in this lifetime.”
_____________________________________
Sooooo that’s how you see this tenacious poster??
Well thanks!! 🙂 lol
How about I share with you how I see myself …. please excuse the rather lengthy summary. I couldn’t plagiarize a substantially shorter internet missive that would do me justice!
“I am a dynamic figure, often seen scaling walls and crushing ice. I have been known to remodel train stations on my lunch breaks, making them more efficient in the area of heat retention. I translate ethnic slurs for Cuban refugees, I write award-winning operas, I manage time efficiently.
Occasionally, I tread water for three days in a row. I woo women with my sensuous and godlike trombone playing. I can pilot bicycles up severe inclines with unflagging speed, and I cook 30-minute brownies in 20 minutes.
I am an expert in stucco, a veteran in love, and an outlaw in Peru.
Using only a hoe and a large glass of water, I once single-handedly defended a small village in the Amazon basin from a horde of ferocious army ants. I play bluegrass cello. I was scouted by the Mets. I am the subject of numerous documentaries. When I’m bored, I build large suspension bridges in my yard. I enjoy urban hang gliding. On Wednesdays, after school, I repair electrical appliances free of charge.
I am an abstract artist, a concrete analyst, and a ruthless bookie. Critics worldwide swoon over my original line of corduroy evening wear. I don’t perspire.
I am a private citizen, yet I receive fan mail. I have been caller number nine and have won the weekend passes. Last summer I toured New Jersey with a traveling centrifugal force demonstration. I bat .400. My deft floral arrangements have earned me fame in international botany circles. Children trust me.
I can hurl tennis rackets at small moving objects with deadly accuracy. I once read Paradise lost, Moby Dick, and David Copperfield in one day and still had time to refurbish an entire dining room that evening. I know the exact location of every food item in the supermarket. I have performed several covert operations for the CIA. I sleep once a week; when I do sleep, I sleep in a chair. While on vacation in Canada, I successfully negotiated with a group of terrorists who had seized a small bakery. The laws of physics do not apply to me.
I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid. On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life, but forgot to write it down. I have made extraordinary four course meals using only a mouli and a toaster oven.
I breed prize-winning clams. I have won bullfights in San Juan, cliff-diving competitions in Sri Lanka, and spelling bees at the Kremlin. I have played Hamlet, I have performed open-heart surgery, and I have spoken with Elvis.”
Oh,I should probably state here that most times I am good at keeping this secret side of me a well kept private (and modest) matter.
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@Fan
That was indeed the most “modest” self description I’ve ever encountered.
ROTFL!
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Afrofem,
Well… I wanted you to see me as someone besides having eyes that have seen much trouble.
AND, I made you smile! 😀
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@michaeljonbarker
Congratulations on derailing the thread! I guess the NMAAHC wasn’t interesting enough?
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“I find this personal discussion much more enlightening than the back-and-forth sniping that was going on beforehand.”
Almost everyone here knows that you’d rather talk about anything that does not have to do with African Americans.
And you can thank villagewriter for the “back-and-forth sniping” that she started.
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“I must confess, at some points in the past, I have viewed Fan with horns coming out of the top of his head and holding a pitchfork, mainly because of the (sometimes violent) arguments we have had over Irish issues.”
@lom
I copied and pasted that (self) description here for entertainment. This letter has been around since before the internet. Who originated it, I don’t know.
Be warned, I don’t have horns coming out of my head, even figuratively, but I do have a sword and arrows at the ready should you go too far astray with your over-the-top irish impulses. You’ve gotten a little bit better… but time will tell. Resw is correct about your lack of real participation in subjects about Black people.
————————————————-
“Congratulations on derailing the thread! I guess the NMAAHC wasn’t interesting enough?”
@resw
Just got one word for you: COON
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resw wrote: “@michaeljonbarker
Congratulations on derailing the thread! I guess the NMAAHC wasn’t interesting enough?”
Attagirl, now answer my question.
“Do you or do you not consider Juan Garrido, Estevanico, J-B. Point Du Sable and Jan Matzeliger to be non-African Americans due to their births outside the USA, and therefore unworthy of being included in the pantheon of African Americans? If you do, tell me why Obama doesn’t make the cut, as your comment above implies? Explain to me, given the one drop rule, how a half-Kenyan , half-white American like Obama isn’t simply an African American?”
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resw, how come you spell favor “favour”? Your big hyper Yankee pose is looking shaky based on your spelling.
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‘Favour’ is the British or Canadian spelling.
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“Years ago I discovered the meaning of life, but forgot to write it down.”
42
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“‘Favour’ is the British or Canadian spelling.” No, it’s Commonwealth and former British colony spelling. Canada is just one of the 53 Commonwealth states using it. resw could be British or a member of any of the nations favoring such spelling.
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@Fan …
That description was meant as a compliment. To me, witnessing and enduring “trouble” is a sign of strength. I meant no disrespect.
Yes, you did make me laugh!
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All is well, Comrade. No disrespect taken!
Besides, it not in your nature – here.
Trouble = Racism
Laughter = Medicine
Strength = this site’s owner & collective.
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Game, set and match villagewriter.
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@taotesan
Right, if you count lying and being proven wrong over and over again.
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resw, were you looking in the mirror when you wrote this?
“Right, if you count lying and being proven wrong over and over again.”
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If the designers of this museum had taken the brief to include the spatial awareness surrounding the other monuments, then I think Mr Adjaye is very clever indeed. The Museum’s design of Yoruba headdress and as an inverted pyramid immediately brings to mind Saqqara, Djoser’s step pyramid, which is the oldest stone complex known in history. It was built during the 3rd Dynasty in ancient Kemet.
The obelisk built for George Washington is also inspired by the Ancient Egyptian AFRICANS_ ‘dark-skinned people with woolly hair’ . Among many obelisks one is in the Temple of Luxor( very lucky to have visited Luxor and Saqqara). The other Egyptian obelisks were stolen by the French,British and Americans(in New York) and other Europeans. I think Mr Adjaye thoughtfully brought in the the ancient, the not so ancient and the modern. In a sense, synergizing the Museum (pyramid) and the inspired Ancient African obelisk of Luxor, honouring the ancestors on foreign land.
We will never know what the bronze that he had in mind for the intricate lattice, created by Charleston craftsmen, that would have had a beautiful burnished patina, aged through the seasons, will look like.
I agree with resw that this brainchild was severely compromised, by the white stakeholders.
However, still I would be incredibly lucky to visit the Museum, if I could, if only to see the exhibits of two of the greatest human beings: Harriet Tubman and James Baldwin.
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Please excuse me, the following comments are of the questions that I had been thinking about for a long time brought up on the Roots thread, tying in Blakksages heartflet comment concerning the lack of a Holocaust Memorial for African/Black Americans.
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“ It is well past the time for Blacks to heed the advice of Minister Farrakhan and, through careful study, build a new knowledge and understanding of our history—and reassess who are our friends and who are our enemies.”
Starronne wrote:“I too think the story of African Americans should be told by us and only us. Just like the wave of African American historical movies are being directed by Black Brits or are usually starring Black Brits (12 Years a Slave, Selma, etc.)
Blakksage wrote: ” Trust me, an appropriately titled holocaust building recognizing our wretched history in this bedeviled country would not only signify, but mean much more to the restoration of our collective psyche.”
If I may, and this is from a removed perspective : before you watch ANY film that is owned and produced by Jewish media (whether or not with a Black façade )about any African America narrative, watch Dr Tony Martin, and study a book every single African American must read and pass it on: ” The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews”. One then has to intensively investigate and interrogate the relationship of the massive media machine , with the prison-industrial complex, hip-hop, cinema, the total infiltration of the NAACP, and the lengths of the falsification of history.
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The British directors and actors but bit players (albeit talented ones) that have been directed and casted by the very people controlling the means of production and distribution of the major production of Jewish white supremacy to exonerate themselves from documented historical record (their own) indicting them of being the lead antagonists in the chattel enslavement of Africans.
“12 Years a slave” is nothing more than a vehicle for the Jewish producers to subvert Northrops story as their own narrative of innocence to hide in plain sight that Jews, were the weft of the fabric of blanket sadistic oppression of Africans in America in their rise as the richest capitalists in America.
Who are some of major players in this sick sadistic double re-enactment?:
FoxSearchlight, is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is the biggest mouthpiece and darling in America of both the ulta-right zionism in Israel. Rupert Murdoch, white Australian.
Arnon Milchan a billionaire israeli citizen, who had won an Oscar of a slave narrative, had help undermine the international sanctions against South Africa. Not only that, he was involved in the nuclear testing of a nuclear bomb for israel off the coast of South Africa.
Every imaginable weapons system needed by South Africa that could not be purchased directly from Israel was purchased on the international market, and instead of ending up in Israel as indicated on the final destination documentation, was diverted to South Africa.
That put israel and one of its top covert operatives, Milchan, in the ideal position to act as the middleman. israel would officially abide by U.N. resolution 418, but secretly, primarily through the services of companies established by Milchan, it would act as South Africa’s primary defense systems supplier, funnelling millions of dollars for purchases from third parties and through direct sales of its own military industries.
As with israeli procurements of nuclear wepons , Milchan’s company quickly became the largest defense procurer for the apartheid South African government. But unlike his procurements for Israel, his commissions on his South African deals were pocketed by him and quickly became the largest source of his wealth—which would ultimately be parlayed into’ Hollywood blockbusters’, such as ’12 years a slave’.
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The commission that Arnon Milchick made a billionaire was through being the largest defence procurer of arms and nuclear weapons for the South African apartheid government, which has enabled him to launder his commission from selling weapons of mass destruction in two apartheid states into Hollywood motion pictures. This man was one of hand-picked men that on an operation called “Tealeaves” was the courier for 12 shipments of 2.5 grams of tritium, extremely rare, and made in Dimona in the Negev Desert, in exchange for 50 tons of uranium from South Africa. He probably had met his South African wife whilst he was offered permanent residence and a mansion, when millions lived in degrading poverty and landlessness. This is a man making a film about slavery in America. This israeli national, earned his money at the expense of Palestinians, Iranians and South Africans now part of the propaganda machine against African Americans.
(What is tritium used for? Sophisticated hydrogen bombs, which are dependent on it. It is more devastating than the bombs that flattened Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Apartheid South Africa had six such bombs.)
( It is also found was at Ground Zero at 55 times than what is normal. The one place where it is made is in Dimona in the Negev, israel Michan’s country.)
(http://www.nuclearweaponarchive.org/Israel/index.html)
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The backstory of “12 years” is a propaganda campaign that hides real life assassination of a Black historian , a ten year old onslaught from major Jewish institutions against Dr. Tony Martin and Minister Farrakhan. This is part of an orchestration to wipe out historical record exposed in the Three Volumes of “The Secret Relationship Between Jews and Blacks” written by the Nation of Islam as documented by Jewish historians themselves. It would wise for us to read, research one ‘s own history and scrutinize and interrogate the intentions of the group of people who are the main antogonists , beneficiaries and aiders and abetters of the greatest crimes against humanity, than to accuse other Black people who unwittingly are used as pawns in white supremacy, without placing the blame squarely on the real culprits.
The same group of people who were never persecuted by white or Blacks on American or any soil, now have 45 holocaust memorials in the US, mostly funded by American tax-payers. Native Americans have none. And the one that James Cameron kept going for African Americans in Milwaukee has closed due to lack of funding. Is there a Holocaust memorial for the Japanese who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Why isn’t there a Holocaust memorial for the Cambodians? Why isn’t there a memorial for the Congolese?
However, still I would like to visit the Museum, if I could, if only to see the exhibits of two of the greatest human beings: Harriet Tubman and James Baldwin. If ever I would visit the USA, perhaps by that time, a Holocaust Memorial honouring The First People and African American American will be built.
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should read:
commission that made Arnon Milchick a billionaire
It was also found at Ground Zero at 55 times over the normal level.
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( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut7I75Q_-zA)
Dr. Tony Martin – The Jewish Role in the African Slave Trade
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@Kiwi
LOL. Too bad you can’t provesuch “hostility” with some actual quotes.
Sorry, this isn’t about you or Asians, despite your pathetic attempts to once again make it about you and Asians.
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Today I finally got to visit the NMAAHC, interestingly, on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of MLK. Jr. nonetheless.
I have been to the NMAI 3 times in DC and twice in NY. I also tried to go to the Vine Deloria, Jr. library and resources center last week in Suitland, MD, but they told me that a staff member has to be arranged in advance to meet us at the security gate. Well, next time.
The NMAAHC is chock full of exhibits and information, and although I spent 4 hours in the museum, I didn’t quite get through all of the parts I wanted to see. You need to spend a full day there to cover everything.
I realized that I actually was already familiar with over 90% of the information in the museum, either through my own personal study or through items found on this or other blogs. I didn’t really learn that much new, although it still was an interesting experience. It was meaningful to see that they pointed. out that slavery was established first in the area surrounding the Chesapeake Bay, in Maryland and Virginia (including Washington, DC.) and other things that touch on my own personal history (like the Freedom rides, the Trail of Tears and Loving v. Virginia).
They had a lot of interactive stuff involving the last 50-60 years, including music, TV, etc. that was fun.
However, I was less impressed by the stuff that dealt with prior to the 1950s or so. I would have found the museum even more enjoyable if
– they had more about the actual culture of African-Americans in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, eg, the music, the food, the social structure, etc.
– more realistic hands-on depiction representing some aspect of history or culture. I see that a few things are up — they are setting up the exhibit for the segregated railroad car, for example.
– the impact to African-American culture and American society in general from the post-60s immigrants, ie, those from the Caribbean and Africa. I think this is important, as the slavery narrative is not the sole voice depicting African American culture and history.
I still have not seen the Anacostia Community museum, but that will have to be another time.
Now that I have seen the NMAI a few times and the NMAAHC, I look forward to seeing a National Museum of Asian Pacific American History and Culture on the National Mall. But I am sure that the majority of Americans, even Asian Americans, would be that familiar with the contents of such a museum. That is why we need it.
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@jefe…Wonderful that you got a chance to see it — I hope to do it this summer.
“I would have found the museum even more enjoyable if
– they had more about the actual culture of African-Americans in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, eg, the music, the food, the social structure, etc.
– more realistic hands-on depiction representing some aspect of history or culture.”
I think, if you ever get a chance, the Anacostia Community museum would satisfy your list of wants above. I’ve not been there (though I lived in Anacostia many moons ago after college), but based on what I’ve read, it gives a good history & culture lesson about the descendants of Black slaves in America — specifically the Gullah/Geechie people from whom I am descended. It’s certainly another planned stop on our summer road trip starting in May!
“But I am sure that the majority of Americans, even Asian Americans, would be that familiar with the contents of such a museum. That is why we need it.”
Agreed! Read this today, which leads me to believe the power of changing shit first begins with the recognition of the need, and then, that the power is in your hands to force it: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/opinion/asian-americans-a-sleeping-political-giant.html
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RIP Phillip Freelon architect of this amazing piece of architecture that is on my bucket list.
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I was finally able to visit the NMAAHC over the weekend and like jefe mentioned above, a few hours is a worthwhile visit, but it’s not enough time to take it all in. There’s an astounding amount of information packed into this museum and it’s well designed to make repeat visits worthwhile. I feel like I could make several trips over the next few years and get something new out of it with each visit. I’m already planning my return!
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