On Sunday September 15th 1963 the Ku Klux Klan bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, killing four girls:
- Addie Mae Collins, age 14 (1949-1963)
- Cynthia Wesley, age 14 (1949-1963)
- Denise McNair, age 11 (1951-1963)
- Carole Robertson, age 14 (1949-1963)
Martin Luther King, Jr:
These children – unoffending, innocent and beautiful – were the victims of one of the most vicious, heinous crimes ever perpetrated against humanity.
Two other black children, Virgil Ware, 13, and Johnny Robinson, 16, were killed by whites in Birmingham later that day.
The bombing came just 18 days after King gave his “I Have a Dream” speech at the March on Washington. They were killed not for the content of their character but for the colour of their skin.
The Klan was trying to stop racial integration, particularly of schools. In Birmingham they had used bombings as an instrument of terror against blacks for so long that the city became known as “Bombingham”.
When the bomb went off everyone knew what it was and knew it was probably the Klan. But what shocked them was that the Klan would bomb a church.
The four girls were in the basement restroom. They had just come from a Sunday school lesson on Matthew 5: “The Love That Forgives”. They were dressed all in white from head to toe: white robes, white shoes and so on: it was Youth Day. They would be helping to run the 11 o’clock service. They were talking, combing their hair, getting ready. There was a fifth girl there, Collins’s 12-year-old sister Sarah. She lived but lost an eye to the flying glass. Nineteen others were injured.
The bomb blew out all the stained glass windows on the east wall except for one: the one of White Jesus, where it blew out his face. James Baldwin:
The absence of the face is something of an achievement since we have been victimized so long by an alabaster Christ.
The 16th Street Baptist Church was the largest black church in Birmingham. W.E.B. Du Bois, Booker T. Washington, Paul Robeson and Marian Anderson had appeared there. It was the city’s largest social space controlled by blacks. That made it a natural staging ground for civil rights protests. Those pictures you see of black protesters being attacked by dogs and sprayed by fire hoses – those were in Birmingham earlier that year and were staged from this church.
After the bombing the mayor wept on television. Yet he did not go to their funerals, nor did he send anyone to represent the city. Dr King:
No white official attended. No white faces could be seen save for a pathetically few courageous ministers. More than children were buried that day; honour and decency were also interred.
The FBI knew who did it but covered it up. The four white terrorists seen by eyewitnesses were not brought to justice till years later: Bob Chambliss in 1977, Thomas Blanton in 2001, Bobby Cherry in 2002 and Herman Cash never: he passed a lie detector test and died in 1994.
See also:
- March on Washington, 1963
- Mother’s Day in Anniston – more Klan/FBI in/action
- Cointelpro
- Marian Anderson
- Paul Robeson
- The girlhood of Angela Davis – she grew up in black middle-class Birmingham in the 1950s. She knew the four girls: they lived in her neighbourhood.
- Mississippi Goddam – Nina Simone wrote this song in the wake of the bombing
I thought for sure today’s post would finally be about Aaron Alexis. haha
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It is always so hard for me to read this.
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I feel ashamed, but I’m sure Cash will rot in hell.
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Did any of these men just confess? How where they finally caught?
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Sadly, about thirty years later, black churches would be targeted again and set on fire. I remember the news reports about those church fires being set one by one.
It’s moments like this that wonder what kind of “god” do white people truly worship and believe in.
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Sadly, about thirty years later, black churches would be targeted again and set on fire.
The church fire thing was debunked over 15 years ago in the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Times and USA Today among others.
http://fumento.com/arson/
Here’s a link to the original Wall Street Journal article.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19970622&id=O-dMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9jYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6746,7189200
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I thought today’s topic would concern Alexis too. Stories are coming out today that he was unhappy with America, he felt downtrodden as a veteran and felt he was discriminated against because he was black. Not unlike many on this blog.
It’s interesting that we go back 50 years and a few days to re-stoke the fire of the race grievance industry that has just shown the results of years of being told “you’re a victim”.
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@ Riverside_Rob
And what are the results of years of being told “you’re a victim”? I’m quite curious on what these are.
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Da Jokah said:
Why would it be? The overwhelming topic on this site is racism. Is there some suggestion that racism played a significant role in the Alexis case?
An allegedly unbalanced man with a history of irrational behaviour had guns and shot people. He didn’t survive the episode. Where’s the race angle? Sounds more like mental health and gun control are the issues at the forefront here. Oh, and I suppose maybe the shortcomings of military security, if one cares about that.
I don’t see your point.
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@ Rick Buddhuu
“Sounds more like mental health and gun control are the issues at the forefront here”—Gun control needs to be a big topic of discussion in American Society at some point. It should be taken seriously as more poorly trained individuals are getting guns and becoming high destructive. But that is another topic another day,
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also on that day Virgil Ware and Johnny Robinson were killed. It is crazy how they were learning about forgiveness and mlk did the I have a dream speech which whites love to quote the part about not judging by the color of skin but by content of character and this happened. smh. The church was a good meeting place and was used to organize these protests, no wonder, they must’ve saw it as a threat. Back when churches used to do things to bring about change they were a huge threat to them.
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Sarah Collins is still trying to get compensation, smh, that won’t happen.
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Be carefull everyone, it looks like someone is trying to make you look like potential murderers because you dare to call out injustice. That must explain why they are so anxious to make the comparison to Donner.
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It’s nothing short of sad when certain people accuse us of race baiting when they are the ones bringing up Aaron Alexis. Why is it that discussing the church bombing is race baiting, but bringing up the Navy Yard shooter that is irrelevant to the topic isn’t? SMH
This post is about the church bombing that took place 50 years ago that still resonates with those who have the capacity to feel and are not afraid of that horrific moment in American history. Yes, it is also a part of American history, the same as with all those other moments those same people are proud of like America’s independence and winning World War II, but will distance themselves when it presents the darkest moments.
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Brothawolf – The church bombing topic would have been right on a few days ago, on the anniversary of the atrocity. Bringing it today seems like obfuscation or distraction from the mass shooting in DC. Are those killed in DC this week no less innocent than the girls form Birmingham?
The fact that this mass shooter was black, and reportedly mentally defective, runs counter to many posters here who believe that mass shootings are only perpetrated by white men. When those white men are described as mentally defective, they argue that insanity is a cop-out plea.
A better topic might be the state of mental health in this country and how, given all the resources that are available, are bat-sh!t crazy people still able to obtain security clearances and weapons.
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@Riverside_Rob
” When those white men are described as mentally defective, they argue that insanity is a cop-out plea.”—To avoid further putting words in ones mouth. When a person carefully plots out the mass killings of individuals they are not insane. Though I invite you to quote where someone says it was a cop out because a cop out and a fake out are two different things.
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Sharina
@ Riverside_Rob
And what are the results of years of being told “you’re a victim”? I’m quite curious on what these are.
Glad you asked Sharina. The results are a group of people that feel they are owed something. What that something is, is not defined. What this group does is it rejects the laws of community and rules of behavior. This group behaves as if there are no consequences to their actions and that they have nothing to lose. They do this because they’ve been told that no matter what they do, they’ll never amount to anything because they’re black, and that white people will ensure they don’t prosper. This is what those people do:
http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-blacks-attack-old-white-people.html
Is this the legacy of the Birmingham bombing? Is this what Dr. King had in mind, that young blacks become predators? I’m certain it isn’t.
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And kindly stop trying to derail this post and go talk about Alex or whatever his name is in open thread.
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There is an excellent Spike Lee documentary called “4 Little Girls” filled with many heart wrenching scenes and interviews of the parents, family and friends.
One of the most heart-rending and poignant scenes is when the father of one of the murdered girls shows the cinematographer an absolutely perfect photo he took of his beautiful happy daughter hugging a white doll as close as she can to her head as her and the doll pose for the camera.
The beautiful innocence of childhood contrasted alongside the hate and violence of racist adults is emotionally overwhelming. Viewing a happy photo from a grieving parent made me sad and sick to my stomach at the absurdity of the hate and violence in this world.
It’s not enough to say that one man or four men were sociopathic killers. The whole U.S. culture allows those sick and twisted people to be members of our society virtually unchecked.
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[…] On Sunday September 15th 1963 the Ku Klux Klan bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, killing four girls: Addie Mae Collins, age 14 (1949-1963) Cynthia Wesley, age 14 (1949-1… […]
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[…] See on abagond.wordpress.com […]
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Riverside_Rob,
Brothawolf – The church bombing topic would have been right on a few days ago, on the anniversary of the atrocity. Bringing it today seems like obfuscation or distraction from the mass shooting in DC. Are those killed in DC this week no less innocent than the girls form Birmingham?
So, in other words you feel it is your duty to tell a blogger what to write and when? In this case Abagond should’ve made this post on the exact anniversary, and not now since we experienced a mass murder as if it’s a blatant sign of disrespect to the victims of the shooting.
The fact that this mass shooter was black, and reportedly mentally defective, runs counter to many posters here who believe that mass shootings are only perpetrated by white men. When those white men are described as mentally defective, they argue that insanity is a cop-out plea.
A better topic might be the state of mental health in this country and how, given all the resources that are available, are bat-sh!t crazy people still able to obtain security clearances and weapons.
No one has every explicitly said that all mass shooters were white. MOST mass shooters were white. Omar Thornton and Aaron Alexis were exceptions.
Again, isn’t it disrespectful to the memory of those four girls and their families whether it’s an anniversary or not to suggest that a current event is more of an important topic than what happened 50 years ago, especially seeing as how black people are still being targeted and killed due to the fear and hatred of black people, the same fear and hatred that murdered those girls? And not to sway off topic, wouldn’t the Navy shooting help solidify that fear further?
In short, you’re just trying to derail again.
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What another sad story. We should never forget what happened to them. It is sad but at the end of the day, I know they didn’t die in vain. They died so that Black people can be able to live better and have equal rights like everyone else in this country.
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Adeen:
They died so that Black people can be able to live better and have equal rights like everyone else in this country.
I think I understand what you mean here but, in part, untimely deaths such as this, should serve as a reminder as to what kinds of things black people endured and the low low depths people were willing to sink to to prevent equality.
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RIP to these young ladies, may they rest in peace, but there were 6 children to die that day. What about the two young boys Virgil Ware and Johnny Robinson? Their deaths should be acknowledged as well. I think it’s sad that they are not recognized as well.
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I have to wonder about the decency of anyone who jumps on a thread about kids getting burned up in a church and end their post with “hahaha”. Yuck.
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@ With Love Glen: I would like to see the Spike Lee documentary, it on my list of things to see. Love your blog btw.
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People, nothing has changed.
White people, badge or not, kill us with impunity and get away with it. And EVERY white person supports the murderer. Chimpout proves me right. Niggermania proves me right. We have reached the point where we need to start seriously considering if ANY of them are trustworthy. I don’t care what they themselves say. I don’t care what some white female says either. I’m tired of them. They lie. All of them. We need to wake the fuck up and acknowledge that before they try to make slaves or corpses of us all and we ALL KNOW THEY WANT TO.
HISTORY says it all. I’ve made my choice.
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@ Gen
I wonder as well. I made a response in regards to it and got it thrown into moderation at which point I asked abagond to delete because I realize such individual was not worth the sh*t in my dogs azz.
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@ mary burrell: Thank you. “4 little girls” is on HBO until the end of this month and I think it’s on NetFlix in their regular inventory. I saw it through HBO Go which is now available through Apple TV if you have an HBO subscription.
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Brothawolf –
You nailed it, I shouldn’t tell this blogger what and when to write.
It is not disrespectful of recent victims to remember past ones. I didn’t say or imply that. Neither is it disrespectful to those victims of 50 years ago to consider the event of one day past.
You fall off the rails however when you state “black people are being targeted and killed due to the fear and hatred of black people, the same fear that murdered those girls. You say this 2 days after a black man targeted others (mostly white) with hatred. You continue the rhetoric of victimology and thus you continue to create an excuse for blacks to prey on whites because they’ve been a victim of whites forever. That is black privilege in this country – the ability to be angry about things that happened before their birth and lash out over it.
Bringing up the Birmingham church bombing following this mass shooting smells like a smoke screen and is an attempt to keep the racial grievance flowing – your post is exactly what I mean.
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@ Riverside_Rob
But the real question is who in this room is keeping the racial grievance going. What is this post about? Do highlight and point it out? Then point out how much of this post even talked about the white murders of those 4 girls.
The take a look at your post as well as da jokah’s who actually took it upon yourself to not only derail with talk of Alexis, but it was you who single handedly decided that you wanted to gloat on the idea that it was a black guy doing the shooting and as you put it “many posters here who believe that mass shootings are only perpetrated by white men.” It was your post that started to derail into race. Yours alone.
So the ironic part of this is that while you are trying to claim what you claim the “race grievances” are doing in regards to making something about race….it was actually you alone who made this whole post about race when in fact it was to remember the death of 4 females.
Good job in proving how delusional individuals like you seem to be.
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“That is black privilege in this country – the ability to be angry about things that happened before their birth and lash out over it.”—Did you forget the part where they always go to jail for it or die. Some privilege. I mean really.
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@ Brothawolf
I apologize for busting into your conversation, but there is some level of pure denial and ridiculousness I can’t at all help.
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@ Riverside Rob
This post, the one before it and the one after it were all well in motion before the Aaron Alexis thing.
I have not yet decided if I will write about him. If he is just some nut and there is no race angle to it then I might not. I did not write about Adam Lanza or the Boston Marathon Bombers after all. I DID write about Christopher Lane because the right was trying to make it into a race thing.
The killings talked about in this thread were not random mayhem but carried out to keep blacks down, to cow them. It is also historically significant since it helped to shape this country. It is also the 50th anniversary, something I intended to write about just as I wrote about Medgar Evers and the March on Washington earlier this year and, God willing, will write about Freedom Summer next year.
Tl;dr: The four girls are martyrs and deserve to be remembered. If you want to talk about Alexis go do it on the Open Thread.
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The question I have, that I’ve never seen asked is; why didn’t the Black men in that community go for blood after our little girls were killed? I know it was a different time but even now I get angry and feel like I want blood in retrospect. I know some will say that would have been counter-productive. But, would it have been? Would we be dealing with the stuff we deal with today if all hell had broken loose in the South back then?
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@ Val
After the bombing a huge fear among whites was that that the biggest race riot in American history would break out. To prevent that the governor brought in 300 state troopers under command of the dreaded Colonel Lingo and had the black neighborhoods blockaded.
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@ Val
I have to wonder about that as well. I think part of the reason we may have had to deal with so much is the constant trying to be mindful of the feelings of whites and not holding them accountable when they fail to be mindful of us.
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@ Val: I wondered that myself. I feel we would be respected more. They would no we were not playing. Especially after something like that going down.
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*know*
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@Abagond
Thanks for that information. It makes more sense now knowing that. I’m sure those Troopers were itching to shoot Black folks.
@Sharina
True. So many of us (Don Lemon types) are busy trying to impress Whites and calling for us to adjust our behavior when that has never worked.
@Mary
Exactly. We’ve tried being peaceful, protests, etc. Not turning the other cheek and protecting ourselves is what Malcolm and later the Panthers taught. They were on the right track I think.
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Hi Val,
I’m guessing that blacks see themselves as severely outnumbered by non-blacks in this country, hence a physical/violent confrontation would not be in our collective best interest.
Yet, on the other hand, how much longer will we accept unarmed black men, women and children being gunned down because some non-black people feel threatened by our mere presence?
Malcolm X, the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, and OTHERS believed in black people defending their own lives. (See link below)
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBPrintItem.asp?ID=2960
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Hi, Matari. I hope you are doing well.
“Yet, on the other hand, how much longer will we accept unarmed black men, women and children being gunned down because some non-black people feel threatened by our mere presence?”
I think about this all the time. How long can we accept this? Especially when we can’t rely on the Justice system. At some point there is going to be a critical mass of Black thought along these same lines and all hell will break loose. Then there will be change that won’t take another 100 years.
Thanks for the link.
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@R_R
This is interesting that some people might believe that there is a sort of “black privilege” in the USA. I wouldn’t think that the ability to be angry is exactly a privilege, but I can’t tell you what you find to be a privilege and what you don’t. There indeed may be some “rights” and “privileges” that blacks might be able to “enjoy” more easily than whites, but I am sure that they pale in comparison to anything that whites enjoy. If black privilege were that attractive, I think we would see many many more whites wishing that they could give up white privilege just to enjoy black privilege, but I never heard that that is a widespread phenomenon anywhere.
It might be possible that some non-white / POC can take advantage of white stereotypes against them to use it to their own advantage. I can imagine a couple scenarios.
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Da Jokah,
Not to derail from the topic, but it seemed like when I searched the net for the 1996 church burning hoaxes, the only source that said so was your source Michael Fumento.
Besides, I remember that time as well as possible, and not once was there a revelation that it was all a hoax. I remembered seeing news reports that showed actual damage.
If anyone here can tell me that I’m wrong, I will admit my mistake and apologize. Yet still, it doesn’t change the fact that there have been, and are, places of worship in America being targeted by white racists whether it is arson or bombs.
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@Abagond
Agree with you here. The Navy Yard incident might be more similar to Sandy Hook, Aurora, Fort Hood, Boston Marathon, etc. — the act of a single or multiple deranged individuals.
But the reaction of many (mostly white) commenters on this idea is telling in and of itself. You’ve mentioned it before. If a white person commits a mass shooting it is the act of a single deranged individual. If a black person commits a mass shooting, it should be racialized and be labelled a racial incident.
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Riverside_Rob
You nailed it, I shouldn’t tell this blogger what and when to write.
It is not disrespectful of recent victims to remember past ones. I didn’t say or imply that. Neither is it disrespectful to those victims of 50 years ago to consider the event of one day past.
It doesn’t matter if you said it exactly, but you did imply when you said:
The church bombing topic would have been right on a few days ago, on the anniversary of the atrocity. Bringing it today seems like obfuscation or distraction from the mass shooting in DC. Are those killed in DC this week no less innocent than the girls form Birmingham?
You fall off the rails however when you state “black people are being targeted and killed due to the fear and hatred of black people, the same fear that murdered those girls. You say this 2 days after a black man targeted others (mostly white) with hatred. You continue the rhetoric of victimology and thus you continue to create an excuse for blacks to prey on whites because they’ve been a victim of whites forever. That is black privilege in this country – the ability to be angry about things that happened before their birth and lash out over it.
I guess it means that white people are the only victims of racism in this country.
First off, you assumed that the shooting was not on my mind when it happened around the same time period of the 50th anniversary of the church bombing. That is only your assumption.
Second, I think it’s petty to race bait during any topic that involves PoC victims. It’s petty because in many instances, white people who attack or murder PoC will likely get lighter sentences as opposed to PoC who attack whites. Black criminals have hell to pay if they murder a white person and live. Most court cases where that is the case will most likely end with a death sentence, or at least life in prison.
Third, we don’t know why the shooter went off the way he did, but it’s jumping the gun to say that he targeted those people because most of them were white. That in itself is something to pause since there is likely other victims, assuming what you say is true.
Bringing up the Birmingham church bombing following this mass shooting smells like a smoke screen and is an attempt to keep the racial grievance flowing – your post is exactly what I mean.
If you want to talk about the mass shooting, start your own blog and write about it. I mentioned it on my own blog, for instance.
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Val,
The question I have, that I’ve never seen asked is; why didn’t the Black men in that community go for blood after our little girls were killed? I know it was a different time but even now I get angry and feel like I want blood in retrospect. I know some will say that would have been counter-productive. But, would it have been? Would we be dealing with the stuff we deal with today if all hell had broken loose in the South back then?
I wonder about this everytime a black person is harmed or killed by a white person, but I think that we worry about the repercussions. Many black people know that white racism permeates throughout the American “justice” system. Like I told Rob, if we targeted whites the way they target us, our sentence will likely be death. But I think it’s more darker than that.
After death, there will be an effort to demonize black people as a whole. News reports of black-on-white murders will likely receive more air time as opposed to white-on-black crimes. Policies like stop-and-frisk, or worse, will be implemented. Cops will beef up surveillance in black neighborhoods. Military-style plans will be passed. And the prison population will explode with black people.
No one denies there are black-on-white crimes. But even though they are very rare and mostly don’t involve racial hatred, it doesn’t matter. All that mattered is that a black person harmed or killed a white person or white people. There have been notable cases like that alone this year, and whenever that happens, sometimes the article will acknowledge there is “racial tension”.
Yet, when a black person is harmed or murdered by a white person, there is an assumption that the black person was the one at fault somehow, and that the white person was “just protecting him/herself”. Some will be punished, but sometimes – if not most times – the sentence is lighter compared to the opposite.
I admit that I not only go through anxiety over what whites will do in their anger. Part of it is due to the oppressive mindset Even though it’s 2013, the fear and hatred of black people is still there.
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Val,
“The question I have, that I’ve never seen asked is; why didn’t the Black men in that community go for blood after our little girls were killed? I know it was a different time but even now I get angry and feel like I want blood in retrospect. I know some will say that would have been counter-productive. But, would it have been? Would we be dealing with the stuff we deal with today if all hell had broken loose in the South back then?”
There would probably be fewer black people in America.
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There may be some truth to that. In most cases where people stood their ground against whites, they were killed or otherwise wiped out.
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Brothawolf says
“I wonder about this everytime a black person is harmed or killed by a white person, but I think that we worry about the repercussions. Many black people know that white racism permeates throughout the American “justice” system. Like I told Rob, if we targeted whites the way they target us, our sentence will likely be death. But I think it’s more darker than that.”
I respond that blacks are increasingly targeting whites for robbery and beating – how is it that you don’t see the avalanche of black on white crime going on?
http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-blacks-attack-old-white-people.html
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@ Riverside Rob
I deleted some of your comments in the spam filter as apparent duplicates.
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Rick Buddhuu
Why would it be? The overwhelming topic on this site is racism. Is there some suggestion that racism played a significant role in the Alexis case?
There was no suggestion racism played a role in the Ferrell shooting. But he managed to fabricate a racial angle didn’t he.
”’
brothawolf
it seemed like when I searched the net for the 1996 church burning hoaxes, the only source that said so was your source Michael Fumento.
Since you made the claim and have done so much research, perhaps you could find a few arrests to back it up? Out of the 520 church arsons in 1994 — about the time black racists started claiming white racists were targeting black churches — just how many of them were actually linked to racism?
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@ Riverside Rob
Why does a discussion about black-on-white crime belong on this thread? It seems like you are derailing, trying to turn the tables.
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Why does a discussion about black-on-white crime belong on this thread?
I looked for a thread about black-on-white-crime but, oddly enough, I didn’t find one. Oh, wait. I found it. It was the Broken Record thread. After 8 years of racebaiting you’d think some of Abagond’s themes might have made it there as well. #smh
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@ Riverside Rob
That’s a joke, right? Being angry about past injustice is a “privilege”? Wow.
Just so you know, history matters. It helps you to understand the world you live in, how it got the way it is. Not a small point when you find yourself living in a screwed up piece of your people’s history. Not a small point when you are told over and over again that your people are screwed up, that history has nothing to do with it.
The world did not start on the morning you or I were born.
Wow. Lashing out? Re-stoking fires? Really? Where did you get that from? Do you honestly think they do not deserve to be remembered by me, that they are not worthy of a post? That I should be writing about some nutcase instead?
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@ Ms Good & Mary
Thank you for reminding me about Virgil Ware and Johnny Robinson. I put them in the post.
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Jokah said:
I disagree. The killing of Mr Ferrell can, without much of a stretch, be perceived as yet another part of a pattern of occurrences. Also, there is the question of the emergency caller’s bringing up the subject of Mr Ferrell’s race before being asked for a description.
But this is not the Ferrell thread. Further debate on that should take place there.
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Riverside_Rob
1. Do you seriously think that white-on-black crimes somehow dramatically dip down to virtual nonexistent levels? If so, why?
2. Do you seriously think that any and/or all instance(s) of white-on-black crimes are not racially motivated? If so, why?
3. Do you seriously think that any and/or all instance(s) of black-on-white crimes are racially motivated? If so, why?
5. Do you seriously think that black-on-white crime has reached epidemically high levels? If so, why?
4. Why is it when any topic about white racism against blacks (or PoC in general) is brought up, there is a “movement” for certain people to try to disrupt the conversation and guilt-trip those willing to stay on topic and remember those who were victims and were pioneers?
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Da Jokah,
It’s funny. You’re basically saying that white-on-black crimes are not racially motivated, but black-on-white crimes are.
By that logic, the bombing of the church 50 years ago was not racially motivated. SMH.
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Rick Buddhuu,
I’m thinking “a pattern of occurrences” is short for “I’m making shlt up because I don’t have any real evidence to support my opinion.” But I’m afraid brothawolf has you beat. Whereas you’re merely making shlt up he’s making shlt up and ascribing it to me.
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You’re thinking? Doesn’t show.
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I think Da Jokah’s seriously mad. lol
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Not mad. I’m bored by illogic and petty insults. Don’t get me wrong. Insults are fine if they actually make a point. You dipsticks just want the last word. You can have it.
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Thanks.
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@ Brothawolf and Rick
This response right here by da jokah had me laughing so darn hard that I nearly spit my tea everywhere.
” I’m bored by illogic and petty insults. Don’t get me wrong. Insults are fine if they actually make a point”
The thing that was so funny is almost all his posts consist of illogical and petty insults and not one of them have manage to make a point. ROFL!!!
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1963. Weak sauce, Abagond.
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It figures, Sharina. I don’t think he ever really wanted to discuss the actual subject of this thread – ergo, no point to make.
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@Da Jokah
I smell someone doing the “white man” shuffle.
If I was on StormFront or American Renaissance you can just moderate & ban me to oblivion. But now that you get asked real questions that CNN, MSNBC or FoxNews won’t challenge you with.
You start runnin’. That is okay. We have seen your best shot.
Now run along, study some history, and come back & get some better moves.
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@ Kiwi
“Projection!”—I am sooo glad I am not the only one who noticed this.
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It took 40 years for most of the bombers to be brought to justice. The other bomber, Herman Cash, had died in 1994 and never faced charges.
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adonis
Jokah picks out what he chooses to debate, and runs fast against the rest. Evidence is overwhelming in my favor
I don’t consider opinions evidence. But you’re right that I pick and choose what I respond to. If you see me “running fast” against something it’s because I didn’t consider it worth my time. To be honest, I don’t consider most of you worth my time. I simply say what I want when I want and I’m not very concerned about what most of you think. Why would I?
It is too hot in here, he is debating against heavyweights.
The only one who’s given me a decent discussion was jefe.
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That was meant for the other thread but it works here, too.
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adonis
You start runnin’. That is okay. We have seen your best shot.
What am I supposed to be running from? Rick’s opinion? How am I supposed to debate an opinion that’s not based on evidence?
Or perhaps you think I ran from brothawolf. Brothawolf claimed “racists” were burning down churches. But when challenged couldn’t provide a single example from 1994 — the year all those church burnings were supposed to have started.
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The only thing Da Jokah and Riverside_Rob are saying is that white lives matter more than black lives. That’s why they race bait and bring up the mass shooting in an article about the church bombing. One of them said that most of the victims in the shooting were white. Hence, there should be a post about the loss of THEIR lives as opposed to the lives of little girls lost 50 years ago, or even the life of a black man, Jonathan Ferrell, that was loss due to another police shooting.
Plus, they’re trying to sell the fear of black racism. A white person killed by a black man is racist, but a black person killed by a white man is something else other than being racist. To them, black people are gunning after whites probably for the same reason a lot of white people feel, retribution for slavery.
Here’s the truth, gentlemen, you are not worried about black racism. What you could be worried about is a little thing we like to call KARMA.
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Yes, so much projection from those commenters.
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“I don’t consider most of you worth my time.”—Yet he is here everyday thinking his “petty insults” should be considered some type of discussion.
I look forward to his comments. If not for the mass contradictions and hypocrisy but the comic relief.
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@ Brothawolf
I find comic relief in da Jokah and riverside_rob. If I was you I would pretty much do the same. Respond to them as they respond to the posts in here and others. Don’t take them seriously.
The funny (and I admit the bit surprising thing) is da jokah (who I thought was the smarter of the two) failed to realize that many people in here have simply been responding to him how he does on almost every thread and have thus concluded that he really is not worth their time. I guess it is always a big chuckle when trolls believe they have the upper hand on something.
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Those of you in the States and have The Hallmark Channel, they’ll be airing the movie adaptation of the book, ” The Watson’s Go to Birmingham – 1963 ” by Christopher Paul Curtis. The movie is produced by Tanya Lewis Lee, wife of Spike Lee. It took her 9 years to get the movie made because the studios did not think that the film would be supported. If you read the book then you’ll remember the tragic bombing of the church that took the girls’ lives is pivotal to the plot.
Here’s the link—> http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/thewatsonsgotobirmingham/about for those that might be interested in seeing the movie. It airs this Friday @8pm.
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@ Lifelearner
Thank you. I will be out but I will do my best to get home in time to watch it.
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@lifelearner : Thank you for this. Will view this.
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@Da Jokah
Let’s not play games.
You keep bringing up “BLACK RACISM”. I challenged xPraetorious on that claim, and he bowed down.
Whites have shown us, that if WHITES ever got into a position where they were being systematically OPPRESSED by BLACKS (meaning that, not ONLY would black people be abusing you, they would get the full blessing of the US Government, I am sure that is what right-wing whites thought Obama was going to Co-sign).
White people would burn this country all the way to the ground, and very quickly.
And if you have an alternate view, please share it with us.
Again, since you brought up a “black racist” you have insight into what “black racism” is.
– Tell me, who is allowing black anything (denizen, citizen, police officer) to maim & kill whites, and the court system is complicit in allowing that black perpetrator to go free?
– Name any law on the books, that benefits black people, AT THE EXCLUSION OF ANY OTHER GROUP!
I thought so.
Also, when black people attack whites, rarely does it come from a depraved racist superiority GOD complex.
And so the bleachers can hear me. A black person calling you any of the banned racial epithets that can’t be used on this blog, is not racism.
You still got your money, you still have your life & limbs, and you surely can go to any all-white neighborhood and escape a black person’s hatred of you, played out in words, not in deed.
@DaJokah you shuffle, because once the tough questions get asked, you have nothing.
I’ll give my thoughts about Aaron Alexis in the open thread.
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White people, especially in the US, and with all propaganda aside as to their supposed intellectual astuteness, have been sold “a Bill of Goods” just like everybody else. Who, if informed from a very young age until the moment of death that he is ‘special’ (e.g., whites; men; “Westerners”; non-Blacks; Christians; Muslims; the rich; those with higher education; heterosexuals etc.) and that he is very much above those who are not like him (e.g., Blacks; women; so-called third world countries; non-whites in general; Jews, adherents of non-Judeo-Christian religions & atheists; the poor; non-degreed individuals; homosexuals etc.) would have the moral integrity or even the reasoning skills to resist such an attractive, pedestal erecting and ego assuaging indoctrination?!
Very few, obviously, as we wouldn’t have this tripe of people feeling smug and superior to others due to group affiliation or complexion, or even due to their own individual skill set for that matter, I might add . . . .
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What’s scary is that many whites are still angry and hateful just like those who attacked innocent people back in the 50’s and 60’s and before. It’s like they can’t stand the sight of a black person, being around them, no matter what type of person you might me. When a black person is around them they have to constantly be hateful and hurt that person as much as possible. Thank God I don’t carry that type of sickness.
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adonis
White people would burn this country all the way to the ground, and very quickly. And if you have an alternate view, please share it with us.
You’re saying whites aren’t discriminated against unless they’re burning your house down. I don’t think discrimination has all that much to do with rioting. For example, Christians are oppressed in moslem countries yet it’s moslems who riot and burn christian houses down. There are even people who riot because their sports team loses… or wins. So I don’t agree that rioting is evidence of either discrimination or the lack thereof.
Tell me, who is allowing black anything (denizen, citizen, police officer) to maim & kill whites, and the court system is complicit in allowing that black perpetrator to go free?
Straw man. I never said that. Nor do I think the courts are complicit in allowing white perpetrators to go free. I do, however, think there are cases (both black and white) in which there isn’t enough evidence for a successful prosecution against guilty persons and even cases in which officials (both black and white) corrupt the process. But I don’t have evidence of any widespread malfeasance and neither do you.
Name any law on the books, that benefits black people, AT THE EXCLUSION OF ANY OTHER GROUP!
Very clever wording. You know that affirmative action as well as other government regulations and programs show racial preferences aka discrimination. Do you think it’s not racial discrimination because blacks aren’t the only ones who benefit from it?
Also, when black people attack whites, rarely does it come from a depraved racist superiority GOD complex.
So why do you think they do it?
You still got your money, you still have your life & limbs, and you surely can go to any all-white neighborhood and escape a black person’s hatred of you, played out in words, not in deed.
As long as I’m not impoverished or maimed and live in a neighborhood of my own race then I should shut up and grab my ankles? No thanks.
I’ll give my thoughts about Aaron Alexis in the open thread.
My beef over Aaron Alexis is with Abagond not you.
”
Brothawolf
Still can’t find a single “racist” church arson from 1994 eh?
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Da Jokah,
I could find those examples, but seeing as how you are no different from other trolls, I don’t see the point. You all seem to think alike. Demanding proof, have it presented to you on a silver platter, and then you want it taken back. But here’s the deal, I am not your servant. I will not go out of my way wasting my precious time to scrounge for proof that you will not except all for the sake of satisfying your sick and depraved pleasure of playing me like a fiddle.
Why not have the courage to find the info yourself, or are you too lazy or selective to try?
I agree with Alexis. You are no different than the white people who were overtly racist back then, only you prefer to show it only via computer and not in real life. I guess they had more courage. lol
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Brothawolf
I could find those examples,
Then do it. Find one from 1994 which is the year they said the “racist” church fires started. I’m only asking for one.
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Da Jokah, this system of fear that everyone is living in right now was planted by idiotic whites who believed in their superiority. They planted and planted like Johnny Appleseed and now that the fruit of their labour has ripen they find it bitter. Such fruit perpetuate, rebounds, and circles into an every complex system of hate. It boils in the blood and passes from one generation to the next in the every so popular game of hot potato. I say so far in history blacks have been relatively calm about it. History is full of bloodbaths in Europe where similiar events have exploded. This is why I find your black on white arguement that both you and Riverside Rob espouse weak. Black anger has been relatively passive revolution in the sense of really being for bring down a system has not really been seen. Most of the efforts were for inclusion which at this point I wonder about, what good does this wimpy form of inclusion do for blacks?
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KoT
It sounds like you’re saying white crime victims deserve it because of something someone else may or may not have done. I think that deep down you know that’s wrong.
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I’m glad such atrocities are rarer today than fifty years ago. This is one of the most heinous examples of pure hatred on American history.
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@DaJokah
adonis
My point is @Da Jokah, I know you are trying to take this conversation somewhere unknown to me, let us stick to the point.
There are privileges & there are obstacles.
In this great American land, historically & less so today, black people have mostly obstacles, and white people have mostly privileges.
Now if you want to argue that a segment of white people have not realized or felt like they have benefitted from their skin color, there is a small argument to be made. And you would probably be right.
But for these hard luck white men & women.
Are NOT targeted for prison labor by the justice system & can freely commit crimes without a lot of resistance from law enforcement.
And they have the resources & the skin color to have a reasonable expectation that they will get a fair trial &/or not do jail time and/or light sentences.
Where as black (men) people more often than not, are targeted. (Maimed, killed included.) And this is very recent. In the 1960s, the majority of prisoners were white.
So, it is not like blacks were always this criminal class throughout history.
That doesn’t mean that black people want to commit crimes at the convenience of whites, we are talking about how law enforcement & policing works based on skin color.
And let us not get into, how whites & blacks are treated, tried, convicted, & sentenced for the same crime.
———
Hard-luck white men & women have a much easier time finding employment as opposed to black people.
Links upon request.
Any little adversity a white person receives, they get all Abagail Fisher (the girl who didn’t get into Texas U & challenge affirmative action) righteous on everybody.
We will come back to that. I love how you try to make corruption, as if it affects whites & blacks equally. That is your whole black/reverse racism argument. If that was the case, whites would at least be in jail at the percentage, according to their population.
That is why I worded it that way. How can affirmative action be racist, if white women benefit more than anybody?
And, if you were keeping score. Jim Crow was a legal tool, there were laws on the books that exclusive benefitted whites & excluded blacks.
There were tangible governmental benefits that whites enjoy to this day, as a result of those laws.
If blacks were the only group that benefitted from affirmative action (women, gays, non-“white men”) then we would get into, how affirmative action has leveled the playing field between the races. But it is not an exclusive benefit.
You cannot measure intent. That is a vague term. You can measure, money, acres of land, and scholarships.
If you know of any other laws, please share it with us.
First of all, let us NOT ignore CONTEXT.
Most crimes is INTRA-RACIAL. Whites mostly abuse whites & so on.
So, while you are so concerned about a black person hurting a white person, you overlook that black people are the main recipients of black induced violence.
And I can only imagine you would aco-sign whites abusing whites because in your NUTTY mind,
if a WHITE kid get kidnapped & killed by a BLACK person, it would make you feel better if a WHITE person did it.
And WHITES outnumber us 5 to 1, last time I checked. So, there are more targets for BLACKS people who are criminally inclined naturally. But again, we overwhelmingly choose black victims.
And as well documented, blacks have been systematically economically undermined, with creates a culture of poverty.
And living in poverty, if you haven’t been keeping score, create adverse behavioral patterns within a said group.
So, in conclusion, black people attack whites because
– they are the depraved teenager coming from poor neighborhood with poor are non-existant poor values ,
– because they are broke,
– because a white person was at the wrong place, wrong time.
Not too many black people commit hate crimes. It happens, and for the most part, these people get tried & convicted.
But not to justify white paranoia, like a unAmusement Park or a StormFront.
You can kick rocks too, you have choices.
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One. In fairness to Abagond, he did not write about Adam Lanza, or Aurora or the dude who almost shot up a black school in Georgia.
At this point @Jokah, you need to go somewhere & enjoy being white or whatever intact community you come from.
Or you can play in traffic. You have choices. Viable ones.
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@ Brothawolf
You want to know what is interesting. I did one single search and not only found a list of these churches but found who they stated were arrested in regards to them. This was taken from one I found:
“Most of the persons arrested have been white males between the ages of 14 and 45, many of them from middle class suburban families. Using accelerants and firebombs to start the fires, they traveled in groups of two to five persons.”
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adonis
In this great American land, historically & less so today, black people have mostly obstacles, and white people have mostly privileges.
Are NOT targeted for prison labor by the justice system & can freely commit crimes without a lot of resistance from law enforcement.
Blacks have always been convinced that whites have some magic privilege that opens doors and allows them to commit crimes with impunity. Whites get plenty of doors slammed in their faces. The difference is that whites don’t assume the door was slammed because of racism but blacks do. As for freely committing crimes, that’s easily debunked by the National Crime Victim Survey. Blacks are arrested at about the same proportion victims name them as the perpetrator.
And they have the resources & the skin color to have a reasonable expectation that they will get a fair trial &/or not do jail time and/or light sentences.
Everyone with resources has a reasonable expectation of a fair trial. But I like you so I’ll tell you the secret for how to keep your tail out of jail. Are you ready? Don’t get angry and yell and scream. Don’t try to explain or talk your way out of it. Just be calm, quiet and listen.
Where as black (men) people more often than not, are targeted. (Maimed, killed included.) And this is very recent. In the 1960s, the majority of prisoners were white.
Black men are also 40% more likely to shoot a cop. But there’s a big difference between 1960 and now. There was an explosion of drug usage accompanied by the street gangs that peddle them. Street gangs are overwhelmingly black and hispanic. Street gangs contribute to an overall culture of violence and crime.
Any little adversity a white person receives, they get all Abagail Fisher (the girl who didn’t get into Texas U & challenge affirmative action) righteous on everybody.
I’ll give you half a point for this one. No one stamps AA on your acceptance letter. Therefore, every black thinks they didn’t benefit from AA when many do. Alternately, every white who gets rejected assumes they were rejected due to AA when many don’t. But it’s still racial discrimination.
That is why I worded it that way. How can affirmative action be racist, if white women benefit more than anybody?
It’s racist because it discriminates against all whites on the basis of race. But it’s also sexist so many white women still benefit from it.
And, if you were keeping score. Jim Crow was a legal tool, there were laws on the books that exclusive benefitted whites & excluded blacks.
Actually, I’ve discussed that before. Jim Crow segregated businesses. Consequently, blacks shopped at black owned businesses which actually helped black business owners. When Jim Crow was overturned most of their customers went to white businesses which put most blacks out of businesses.
There were tangible governmental benefits that whites enjoy to this day, as a result of those laws.
Immigrant studies show that no matter where families start, most end up comparable to those of similar ability within a coupe of generations.
If blacks were the only group that benefitted from affirmative action (women, gays, non-”white men”) then we would get into, how affirmative action has leveled the playing field between the races. But it is not an exclusive benefit.
Come on, dude. That’s weak.
So, while you are so concerned about a black person hurting a white person, you overlook that black people are the main recipients of black induced violence.
That’s not true. Blacks are actually slightly more likely to commit crimes whites. Since most blacks live in majority black neighborhoods, that can only happen if whites are being targeted.
And I can only imagine you would aco-sign whites abusing whites because in your NUTTY mind, if a WHITE kid get kidnapped & killed by a BLACK person, it would make you feel better if a WHITE person did it.
Don’t presume to know what goes through my nutty mind.
And WHITES outnumber us 5 to 1, last time I checked. So, there are more targets for BLACKS people who are criminally inclined naturally. But again, we overwhelmingly choose black victims.
On the contrary, if there are 5X as many whites then whites should be committing 5X as many crimes against blacks. Instead, blacks commit ~90% of the violent interracial crime between blacks and whites. That means blacks are 45 X more likely to commit violent crimes against whites than the reverse. Do you not agree that 45 X is outrageous and should be addressed?
And living in poverty, if you haven’t been keeping score, create adverse behavioral patterns within a said group.
Poverty doesn’t cause adverse behavioral patterns. Low IQ causes both.
So, in conclusion, black people attack whites because
They’ve grown up being told that whites are the cause of their problems and want to get even.
Not too many black people commit hate crimes. It happens, and for the most part, these people get tried & convicted.
According to my numbers, a black person is about 50 % more likely than a white person to commit a racially motivated hate crime
”
In fairness to Abagond, he did not write about Adam Lanza, or Aurora or the dude who almost shot up a black school in Georgia.
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“Most of the persons arrested have been white males between the ages of 14 and 45, many of them from middle class suburban families. Using accelerants and firebombs to start the fires, they traveled in groups of two to five persons.”
What? No names??? That’s from the report by the Center for Democratic Renewal that Fumento debunked. The CDR made it up. That’s why I’m asking for the name of just one person arrested for a racially motivated church arson in 1994.
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Da Jokah,
What? No names??? That’s from the report by the Center for Democratic Renewal that Fumento debunked. The CDR made it up. That’s why I’m asking for the name of just one person arrested for a racially motivated church arson in 1994.
See what I mean? You proved my point about you. I rest my case. And to further put icing on the cake:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/07/church.fire.7p/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-06-13/news/1996165001_1_black-churches-burning-of-black-zion-baptist-church
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/race_relations/church_burnings_6-10.html
http://people.duke.edu/~ldbaker/clippings/black-ch.html
There they are. Now, go ahead and reject them. lol
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@ Da Jokah
“What? No names???”—Oh so is that now the new stipulation. I could of swore you said this and I quote “Find one from 1994 which is the year they said the “racist” church fires started.” Besides the point of my post was not about providing names but to show how simply it was to pluck it into a search and watch it pop up. Since you keep harassing brothawolf about it I figured it was more important to you than him that it be proved or disproved. Secondly I find it odd that you are so quick to ask for proof yet have failed to provide proof for the following statements:
“According to my numbers, a black person is about 50 % more likely than a white person to commit a racially motivated hate crime”
“Poverty doesn’t cause adverse behavioral patterns. Low IQ causes both.”
“They’ve grown up being told that whites are the cause of their problems and want to get even.”
“Black men are also 40% more likely to shoot a cop”
When you can start providing proof or links or whatever for some of the bs you come up with in here then I think you have then earned the right to badger someone else about providing it. Until the…hello pot…how’s kettle?
Also were you aware that many say the fires that are considered a hoax actually started in 1996 and not the 1994 or 1990 you keep say that Fumento claims. In fact his actually report is here. http://fumento.com/arson/wsjfire.html
If anything it would be fair to say his opinion falls more into this “So other than saying that some black churches over the years have fallen prey to racists, we can’t easily infer motives. “We have not uncovered in 38 cases a single piece of information to substantiate racially motivated fires,” said Alabama’s Mr. Robison.” Sounds more I don’t know rather than debunking.
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Oh and thank you for actually attempting to provide something substantial to the posts.
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Further on the matter this is a direct quote from the document I provided. “There is no good evidence of any increase in black church burnings”—This does not indicate that he believes it is not happening but rather there is no real evidence that it increasing. More so the possibility that CDR is fabricating the numbers. Most if not all of his claims hold on to the idea that the numbers being reported would naturally rise considering there was not a reporting until, for example, 1993.
Other than that if I find further I will add further.
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Adonis said
White people would burn this country all the way to the ground, and very quickly. And if you have an alternate view, please share it with us.
Here’s an alternate view – white flight, whites leave the area to become Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, Camden, Oakland, Philadelphia and many others. Blacks burn their cities, whites don’t. Blacks follow whites and government ensures they do, for when the tax base leaves, the social program money leaves too.
Adonis said
“Where as black (men) people more often than not, are targeted. (Maimed, killed included.) And this is very recent. In the 1960s, the majority of prisoners were white.
So, it is not like blacks were always this criminal class throughout history.
BINGO – blacks were not always this criminal class. They’ve evolved into this criminal class in last 50 years, and really hit the gas in the last ten and people like those who comment here are guilty of enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny. Race hustling reverends and knee jerk responses of “that’s racist!” have both diluted the impact of the racist accusation and at the same time fostered a combative attitude among young blacks and not just males either. This is what the racial grievance industry has wrought upon all of us.
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@ Riverside_Rob
Again with your delusive comments that amount to nothing.
“people like those who comment here are guilty of enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny.”—Do point to or explain how “people who comment here” are enabling low iq blacks to become etc.?
or you can just run and hide when questioned like you apparently have a knack for doing now.
Your toll for dumb sh*t is racking up.
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sharina
@ Riverside_Rob
Again with your delusive comments that amount to nothing.
“people like those who comment here are guilty of enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny.”—Do point to or explain how “people who comment here” are enabling low iq blacks to become etc.?
or you can just run and hide when questioned like you apparently have a knack for doing now.
Your toll for dumb sh*t is racking up.
I’m not hiding Sharina, but I do have to get some work done – hundreds are counting on me (and maybe you too) to fill their bellies.
Let me offer Adeen up as an example. The young lady is trying to find her way in this world, and she’s leaning towards hatred of whites – vacillating back and forth between outright hatred and just strong dislike and distrust. She’s a teenager, and her worldly experience consists of bullying by high school girls, and following along with the commenters here who chirp to Abagonds scrapings of past injustices. It’s “white’s target blacks for prison labor” and “whites don’t want to pay a living wage” and “whites brought my ancestors here against their will”. I don’t blame her for wanting to be a separationist / segregationist given all of the negativity spoon fed around here. You’re part of that too.
Today’s post is more of the same – evil white Europeans massacre peace loving indigenous peoples of the carribean. For all anyone knows, those histories could have been written by the English to discredit the Spanish, but here, they’re taken as gospel. Meanwhile, another mass shooting in Chicago, black on black this time. No comment here – sweep it under the rug as usual. You set the bar pretty low.
One other thing, I think it was you who responded to my comment on black privilege to run riot with something about the criminals getting arrested and imprisoned. Here’s the deal, it doesn’t help the victims of violence to have the thug arrested and made a pet of the state. He or she is dead, brain damaged, injured, raped or traumatized. It would be better if the thuggery had not taken place in the first place. This is black privilege – run amok, go to prison, watch TV and work out, have your meals provided and hang out with your friends. White privilege is fewer hassles with the Police, more job opportunities and higher taxes to pay for those who can’t manage to live in our society. Oh yeah, we get to listen to your bleating about the unfairness of it all.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“hundreds are counting on me (and maybe you too) to fill their bellies”—Unless you are either my husband who works to pay for my groceries or the individual that kills the meat to put in the groceries, then I highly doubt that. 🙂
” I don’t blame her for wanting to be a separationist / segregationist given all of the negativity spoon fed around here.”—That is funny considering not one but quite a few people in here have talked to Adeen about her temper and anger, but do continue providing this proof.
““white’s target blacks for prison labor””—-Who said that?
” “whites don’t want to pay a living wage”—Who said that?
“You’re part of that too”—Oh but do quote one thing I said that managed to add up to this “people like those who comment here are guilty of enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny?” I can’t wait to see what you come up with here (my personal quotes please and not what you think I said). I will throw one at you. I am a strong believer in personal responsibility and that does not add up to me enabling “blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny?” But again please quote me. 🙂
“Meanwhile, another mass shooting in Chicago, black on black this time.”—Another one of your tit for tat when I asked a simple question. Try not to deflect because you have quite a long what to go for your claim of “people like those who comment here are guilty of enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny” and I can tell you so far you have not backed it up. But on another note…..Should I be idolizing criminals by giving them more attention than they deserve? I prefer to focus on the victims thank you.
” This is black privilege – run amok, go to prison, watch TV and work out, have your meals provided and hang out with your friends.”—Sorry Rob but in my world I don’t consider that a privilege and I don’t know what psycho would. If that is a privilege then it is one every criminal (regardless of race) gets. It isn’t thuggery, but that fair justice system some people like to rave so much about.
” Oh yeah, we get to listen to your bleating about the unfairness of it all.”—No, actually you don’t. For those whites that do actually here it that is because they have made the choice to plant themselves in situation to hear it.
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hear*
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Now I will say this…there are some in here that are hardcore, but the amount of hardcore individuals in here do not comment very often and I can tell you Adeen (who is your example) has been on sites twice as hardcore as this.
“evil white Europeans massacre peace loving indigenous peoples of the carribean. For all anyone knows, those histories could have been written by the English to discredit the Spanish, but here, they’re taken as gospel”—No that is what you made of it (which frankly is more telling of you than of abagond). I don’t know if it is taken as gospel, especially when others provide corrected information in the comment section. If you had something to provide to it then do so. But apparently it was not too wrong as you did not (that I have seen).
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@ Riverside Rob
1. You cannot call a punishment (going to prison) a privilege and still remain within the English language. On this blog Standard English is the language of record.
2. This is not a crime blog. If it were most of the crime would be white on white. Because that is what most American crime is. So you would still think I was bashing white people.
3. I generally post on stuff that is racially significant. The Taino genocide and this church bombing count as that, big time. They are hardly scrapings. They both shape the world we live in. The shooting in Chicago or the Alexis guy, not so much.
4. I have known some people who broke the law. Not a single one brought up striking back at white people. Not even remotely. Not even the one who killed a (very well-connected) white person. In my experience criminals are far more self-absorbed than that. Black people are not the Klan in reverse.
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Riverside_Rob
Just in case you missed the memo, this isn’t a blog for white people. Also, you haven’t answer my questions. (Like I would be surprised)
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Riverside_Rob
This is black privilege – run amok, go to prison, watch TV and work out, have your meals provided and hang out with your friends. White privilege is fewer hassles with the Police, more job opportunities and higher taxes to pay for those who can’t manage to live in our society. Oh yeah, we get to listen to your bleating about the unfairness of it all.
OMG. Do you realize how complete illogical that sounds? You call going to prison black privilege? Really? Honestly, that is the dumbest statement I ever heard. In that case, I should hope I get myself arrested where I will be treated like a king. SMH.
And you can deny it all you want, but white people have an enormous amount of unfair privileges. It has been known empirically for years.
Lastly, it seems you are more afraid of black crime than white crime. Most crime is intra-racial. Interracial crime is rare. Only the latter is given more news coverage along with black crime. The news reporting of crime has jumped while crime itself has been declining.
Also,
For all anyone knows, those histories could have been written by the English to discredit the Spanish, but here, they’re taken as gospel. Meanwhile, another mass shooting in Chicago, black on black this time. No comment here – sweep it under the rug as usual. You set the bar pretty low.
The history illustrated by this and other forms of writing is largely avoided in school books. No books I ever saw during my school career mentioned or hinted about the church bombing. In fact, most of them hardly ever discussed the Civil Rights Movement extensively.
Lastly, you seem bent out of shape because Abagond didn’t post the kind of issues you think he should be posting. But, you seem too lazy or preoccupied to start a blog yourself. And you also think that just because it was mentioned in this blog that the blogger does not care about it. Right?
Honestly, what right do you have of telling a blogger what to write about, and insult him/her if he doesn’t comply?
It’s amazing that some white people still think of us in some way, shape or form as their subordinates or slaves.
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IMO, the failing of people like Rob and Jokah is not of logic, it is of empathy. They try to argue about the experiences of PoC from the perspective of white people who (and whose families) have not experienced the situation of being outnumbered by people with whom you have a painful history, and who still seem determined to give you sh!t on a regular basis. It is ignorance and a simple lack of understanding.
Of course, as a white man, my own grasp is similarly flawed. I don’t agree with everything I read here, but I don’t see why it has to be about scoring points and trolling.
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@ Rick Buddhuu: Very astute commentary. I so appreciate you hear as a commenter.
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*here*
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on Fri 20 Sep 2013 at 20:47:55 sharina
@ Riverside_Rob
“hundreds are counting on me (and maybe you too) to fill their bellies”—Unless you are either my husband who works to pay for my groceries or the individual that kills the meat to put in the groceries, then I highly doubt that.
Sharina – this assumed that you (and your family) are tax payers that are depended upon, not that you are a dependent. That chip on your shoulder colors your thinking a lot.
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@ anyone who identifies as “white” – except the trolls as I have desire to engage nonsense..
Why do so-called Caucasian people still persist in calling (or believing) themselves as “white?”
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@Riverside_Rob
“this assumed that you (and your family) are tax payers that are depended upon, not that you are a dependent. That chip on your shoulder colors your thinking a lot.”—And do explain how it colors my thinking? either you are secretly my husband who pays for us to have food (because food ain’t free) or you are the person who chops up the meat etc. I grow my own veggies so no one handles that but me…..I can tell you that the only thing this has done was indicate that I have a problem with you (and yes I do so I won’t deny my jabs here and my short patience for you) and your regular ignorant thinking, but it does not indicate what you claim I and other posters on here do which is “enabling low IQ blacks to become degenerate, violent gangsters and see themselves as striking a blow against the white man and his tyranny.”
In fact if you are trying to get at what I think you are then let me stop you right there by saying just because I dislike you does not mean I dislike all white people. So do try again. 🙂
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I have also told you before that I don’t like you, but it is not because you are white so please on please do not start playing the race card. It annoys me.
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sherina
I find it odd that you are so quick to ask for proof yet have failed to provide proof for the following statements:
I only asked him for one source. I don’t mind providing sources when asked. As long as someone doesn’t run me to death asking for everything.
”
“According to my numbers, a black person is about 50 % more likely than a white person to commit a racially motivated hate crime”
Raw data comes FBI hate crime statistics 1999. Number crunching performed by John Perazzo in the following article,
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=24104
“Poverty doesn’t cause adverse behavioral patterns. Low IQ causes both.”
The comparative roles of IQ and parental SES in determining whether young adults are below the poverty line, page 131.
In the high school sample, high IQ makes a difference in avoiding poverty, page 136.
On two diverse measures of crime, the importance of IQ dominates socioeconomic background, page 249.
Page numbers show the data graphed in The Bell Curve. Source for raw data graphed is National Longitudinal Survey of Youth.
“They’ve grown up being told that whites are the cause of their problems and want to get even.”
Observation. I grew up in a predominantly black area.
“Black men are also 40% more likely to shoot a cop”
The stat was given in “Are Cops Racist?” (Ivan R. Dee, 2002).
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sherina
Besides the point of my post was not about providing names but to show how simply it was to pluck it into a search and watch it pop up.
I was aware of the CDR report because they made the original claim. Claims which it turns out were fabricated. For example, the CDR report claimed there was an increase in church arsons. In fact, according to the NFPA church arsons were at a 20 year low. Furthermore, the CDR listed ten churches allegedly torched in Alabama, but State Fire Marshall John Robison says that only one of these was a confirmed arson. To quote Robison, “We have not uncovered in [Alabama’s] 38 cases a single piece of information to substantiate racially-motivated fires.” Fire Marshals of other states said the same.
”
brothawolf
here they are. Now, go ahead and reject them. lol
Yes and no. I reject the CNN, Baltimore Sun and PBS articles because all they say is that there are suspicious fires which they magically attribute to racism without any support for making that claim. In fact, there are about 600 church fires a year many of which are suspicious. Most of those churches are white not black. And do you know who the largest perpetrators of church fires are? Thieves covering their tracks, disgruntled members getting even and board members/preachers who do it for the insurance. If your church is in disrepair or losing members it’s an easy way out.
I will, however, give limited credibility to the Washington Post and Duke articles. Not for their hysteria but because they actually managed to list racially motivated arsons. WaPo lists 3 drunk teens who burned down a couple of churches and yelled “N” in 1993. Duke lists 2 klansters who burned down a couple of churches in 1995. As far as I know those are the only arsons that had a racial element between 1990 and 1996 during the time this “epidemic” of racially motivated church arsons was supposed to have taken place. The ATF had over 200 agents working on this and as far as I know they found no additional cases.
So why did I ask for the name of a single racial arsonist in 1994? Because it was right in the middle of this “epidemic”. And out of 520 fires that year NOT A SINGLE ONE was found to be racially motivated. Like I said, the racial arson “epidemic” was a fraud.
I repeat the challenge. Prove me wrong by listing the name of a single racial arsonist at the height of the “epidemic” in 1994. Either that or admit the so-called “epidemic” was a fraud.
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@Matari
I’m not entirely sure I processed the question correctly so excuse me if I miss the point.
If you’re asking why “white” rather than various shades of pink or beige… I honestly have no idea. Clearly white people aren’t “white” (although some, like Johnny and Edgar Winter come startlingly close), any more than black people are “black”. In both cases there exists a obvious wide range of skin tones.
The term obviously arose as a comparative. If whites had never encountered non-“white” people there would be no need for the labels by which to distinguish and contrast the two. I suppose it is an extreme binary simplification. Originally I guess it may also have been political – the concepts of white and black can be rhetorically loaded (a black day, black sheep of the family, whiter than white).
Outside of discussions of racial issues, or issues that may have racial aspects, I don’t think of myself as caucasian or white. My colour doesn’t occur to me. In contexts such as discussions here on Abagond’s blog I use “white” for simple convenience. Everyone else seems to use that as the label for people of my race, and I often underline the fact that I am “white” just for the sake of being clear and open. I know that some people conceal their race when they come here, sometimes for pretty stupid reasons. I let people know who I am so they can decide whether they want to engage with my contributions or ignore if they don’t trust me.
As for why we use “white”? Apart from the pointy sheet nutcases, those who really have convinced themselves that there is something special about “white”… I really don’t think most caucasians care what the label is, nor even really think about it. For most of us there is no loaded intent in the word, it’s simply the one that we’ve always known and so use through familiarity. We could be called white, pink, whitey, honky… I really don’t think it would matter that much – although some gay haters may shy away from “pink”.
There are no words for a white person per se that are as offensive as terms that have been used against PoC. Redneck and cracker, for example, describe a certain kind of white, not the race in general. Anyway, it’s not that no one has come up with a hurtful enough word, it’s just that whites are not in a position that makes them susceptible. PoC suffer these insults from a group that often sees itself as superior, has often held extreme power over them, has exploited and hurt them. A group that has owned their ancestors. (No offense intended, it is an important part of the point I’m trying to make.)
Whites haven’t suffered this at the hands of PoC. How can we be sensitive to a few insults when we don’t have the history and context for them to mean much to us.
As I say, except for the white power idiots. I can’t speak for how their minds work.
Sorry if I have missed the point of your question, and for being long-winded as usual.
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@ Da Jokah
This is the point scoring mentality to which I alluded earlier.
Jokah, FFS, change the freaking record, will you?
So no one has provided evidence to satisfy you. Whatever. If you think you’ve won the point then just crow a bit and then go away. There is enough data in the posts above for people to research and draw their own conclusions.
But it’s not about facts is it? It’s all about your ego and the points.
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@ Rick Buddhuu
Thanks for sharing.
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@Matari:
You’re welcome.
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@ Da Jokah
Your comment should be deleted on the premiss of twisting my name but I will consider it an accident on your part.
“I only asked him for one source.”—Actually you harassed him for one quote.
“Raw data comes FBI hate crime statistics 1999”—It is 2013 I am sure you can come up with more recent data and some that is not from a magazine but an actual FBI website of stats .
“The comparative roles of IQ and parental SES in determining whether young adults are below the poverty line, page 131.
In the high school sample, high IQ makes a difference in avoiding poverty, page 136.
On two diverse measures of crime, the importance of IQ dominates socioeconomic background, page 249.
Page numbers show the data graphed in The Bell Curve. Source for raw data graphed is National Longitudinal Survey of Youth.”—And considering I don’t have these books or what not there is not real way for me to check this, but I will look into it when time permits me.
“Observation. I grew up in a predominantly black area.”—-I did too. Over the course of two states I might add (4 different neighborhoods). Common phrase I hear “the white man aint go give you nothing…you gotta work for it.” So should I now consider my experience good enough to generalize all blacks?
“he stat was given in “Are Cops Racist?” (Ivan R. Dee, 2002).”—What no link? Again I will look into it with more time.
“To quote Robison, “We have not uncovered in [Alabama’s] 38 cases a single piece of information to substantiate racially-motivated fires.” Fire Marshals of other states said the same.”—And how does one determine if something is racially-motivated, especially if they have not arrested anyone? But so as not to paraphrase…he actually said “”We have not uncovered in 38 cases a single piece of information to substantiate racially motivated fires,” said Alabama’s Mr. Robison. Further, the arsons have “been happening for at least seven years,” he said. “There have been no dramatic increases, except for this year because of the media hype.” Other states’ officials have told him the same.” I am sure those officials could have simply been quoted rather than having one guy say what they said.
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Viewed, the Hallmark channel’s “The Watsons go to Birmingham” it just reinforced how horrible racism is. How evil someone could be to bomb a house of worship, and not care about the lives of children and black people as a collective. While watching the scene where the explosion goes off and how that panic and fear on the people in that community, running to see if their loved ones were in danger. Just how evil, those racist demons, that planted the bomb had no sympathy for human beings.
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“A group that has owned their ancestors.”
– – –
Held in bondage? Yes. Owned? Never.
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@Flamma
I stand corrected. Sincere apologies for the error; I hope it didn’t weaken the point I was trying to make.
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@ Rick Buddhuu: I appreciate that you do at least try to empathize. That means a lot to me. That you are not just some troll. I enjoy your commentary.
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@DaJokah
You can run @DaJokah, but you gon’ get this work. You can’t call the police when we get in that ring!
———————-
@DaJokah
in response to abagond:
Study: Whites More Likely to Abuse Drugs Than Blacks
Study published in 2011 about black & white youth
White Kids Are Much More Likely To Be Using (And Selling) Drugs!
2001 bulletin illustrating racial disparities prosecuting drug dealing by race.
You went to 1999 to get your stats, I am still in the 21 Century.
And at least we know you intuitively understand history. But you ignore history when it destroys your argument.
When It Comes To Illegal Drug Use, White America Does The Crime, Black America Gets The Time
Racial disparities of prosecuting people who sell & use drug in California.
Written three days ago.
—————————-
The reason I keep belaboring drug crimes, because that is the most common felony crime in America.
This is how the prison system took off on law enforcement going out of their way to disproportionally lock up black males selling & using drugs in their respective communities (meaning that they were not selling drug to white men & women).
But white America has a bigger drug problem, but yet the prison population does not reflect that. (Sarcasm) Does low IQ play into that (/Sarcasm)
And if you were keeping score, yes, not going to jail, but still being able to make money & use drugs in the underworld IS A PRIVILEGE MOSTLY WHITE IDENTIFIED PEOPLE ENJOY.
The next most common felony crime is some type of property crime/theft, which proves my point that most (blacks) people commit crimes related to money.
Violent Crime is like #9, 10, etc.
http://www.schatzanderson.com/information-and-resources/20-common-felony-crimes-u-s/
I actually agree with the defense protocol you issue.
A lot of poor blacks don’t get proper legal representation, and are not schooled in how to properly self-defend in court.
Cops abused black people THEN in 1960 (hence the Black Panther movement, a defensive movement)
And cops abuse us now. Hence the John Ferrell post.
You have not pulled up ONE link showing me of an unarmed white person getting shot & killed by police.
Because that is news to all of us.
You have black men getting shot in police cars, handcuffed & lying face down with NO resistance. See: Oscar Grant
But you expect a black person to see law enforcement as their ally.
That is a myopic white-identified man for ya.
Notice how you leave out how the drugs got into our communities. Remember
Meth can be made here because the main ingredient is Prescription pill.
WHERE ARE BLACKS GETTING HEROIN/COCAINE FROM?
We own no boats, we certainly don’t have the connections. I believe the last black man that had a real drug connection was Frank Lucas.
But other than that, it is a non-black enterprise.
And white people use & sell drugs more than anybody outside of Native Americans.
Where is their prison population?
FYI – The first street gangs were white immigrants in the mid 1800s See: Gangs of New York, which is a FICTIONAL movie, but definitely gets its inspiration from REAL HISTORY.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_Riots
What is funny is, when white immigrants WHO CAME HERE BY CHOICE had NO MONEY, and had to actually compete WITH BLACKS, they were VIOLENT. IQ had very little to do with it
I am only using Wikipedia because you used it. If I was debating Abagond, I might use something else.
I digress.
But back to my point, whites have a bigger drug problem. And the majority of the drugs are in the white community.
Cause by your logic, white kids are getting their drugs from black/Hispanic gang members, and it has widely documented
“According to the US Justice Department and the Office of National Drug Control Policy, drug users typically buy their drugs from sellers of their own racial or ethnic background. For research on Ethnicity & Race of Drug Sellers and Users, see: US Dept. of Justice National Institute of Justice & the US Office of National Drug Control Policy, “Crack, Powder Cocaine, and Heroin: Drug Purchase and Use Patterns in Six U.S. Cities,” December 1997, pp. 1, 16, and p. 15, Table 16.”
Now I finally dipped into the 90s. If this fact isn’t still true in 2013, where America is very much segregated. This fact still holds
To correct past racial discrimination.
You are stating it without context, which you are full of context, when you argue.
It discriminates against all whites, however white women benefit more than anybody. Too easy.
And since white family is mostly intact compared to black families. White benefit from white women receiving affirmative action benefits.
And because black business benefitted, did that make Jim Crow & the legal crimes that took place within that system okay.
Are you making the argument that Jim Crow was a good thing, even though blacks never made any documented formal agreement that it was they way we do things?
You are being willfully dense, the Civil Rights Movement easily destroys your argument.
Businesses & making money is the last thing on your mind, when another group outside of wartime can commit NOW illegal crimes against you & it has the full backing of the city, state & federal government.
This is the WORST argument you have posted on this whole thread.
1. Immigrants came here by choice. Africans/indigenous people were already HERE & got their land stolen from them or they came from the slave trade.
Two totally different dynamics are at play
2. Immigrants, recent history shows, are giving TANGIBLE resources to start business, to own homes, etc. (welfare also) that a lot of black folks don’t get access to.
And yes, immigrants faced discrimination also, but not at the severity of black people in this country.
3. Immigrants have a HOME country that represents them. There family, cultures & values are still intact. Whereas black men & women HERE from slavery till today are undermined anytime there is any progress to be made.
Sorry to kill your orgasmic racist fantasy
Any argument I present to you is weak, to YOU. It is basically you saying “I got nothing, so I talk in circles, and sound like I know what I am talking about.”
When you are as RACIALLY BIAS as you are, it is hard for any logic to get through
BLACKS have never got any reparations or have been fully compensated for the injustices & oppression brought on by whites. But yet, we are asked to pull ourselves by the bootstraps WITH NO BOOTS.
While middle class whites & every other immigrant here HAS GOTTEN SOME SORT OF TANGIBLE MEANINGFUL GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.
Lay off the Mollies.
Repeat after me. Cause your poor reading comprehension is showing.
INTRA-RACIAL is King.
INTER-RACIAL crime pales in comparison.
http://m.colorlines.com/archives/2012/04/crime_myths.html
And since you probably need a man who looks like you to school you, here is Tim Wise
http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/
If a black person needs money, and his fellow black person does not have it, who is the next logical person that black person would consider robbing?
I’ll wait.
I promise you that if blacks & whites were on equal footing financially, our criminals would be more interested in black wealth. And that would cure about 75% of black crime.
Whites have dumb, senseless, non-money motivated criminals in their communities just like we do.
Well, obviously something is whacked, because while you are focusing on Tyrone & Raheem, John & Tommy are the ones who are statistically more likely to commit a crime against you.
1. You have a drug problem that you won’t properly address, so as I stated before, a lot of your OTHER crime is just not BEING addressed. And if it is being addressed, it is a PRIVATE matter, our crimes are front-page news. Racism.
2. No.
A. Whites don’t live around blacks. If you cannot avoid the black underclass because you are not financially sounds, that is a YOU problem. You are still better off than 90% of blacks who can’t move into white society, the way whites can penetrate black society.
B. Poor Blacks don’t attack whites because of their skin. Chances are they want their money or personal property.
You cannot oppress a group of people, and unREASONABLY expect the effect of that oppression not spill into your communities. It is the cost of doing business.
That is a YOU problem.
This is where it gets juicy.
1. Where White Immigrants first settled here when they formed the first street gangs, did they have low IQ?
No. They were broke & didn’t want to go war or compete with blacks for jobs.
———
2. Let us go with your argument & ignore blatant historical racism, Jim Crow, heroin/crack cocaine that was imposed upon us, Vietnam War, unemployment due to racial discrimination (laws had to be put in place to curb the practice), deviant Hip Hop Culture MAINLY supported by whites of all socio-economic backgrounds.
1. What is IQ & the origin? Who was the creator?
2. How come African Immigrants who come to the US outperform even the white immigrants in America?
3. Did blacks in America always had low IQ? Is there a trend?
4. What argument are you trying to make when you bring up IQ?
This is what I hear:
Black people, your problems have little to do with racial discrimination.
You are living in squalor because you are just dumb. You have always been a step removed from savages. And that justifies all the adverse treatment you have received since slavery.
YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL FOR SLAVERY & JIM CROW because WHITES civilized you.
FYI: By the way, it was the AFRICAN MOORS who civilized Cave-Dwelling illiterate whites (your kings & queens could not read) and ushered in THE RENAISSANCE ERA.
Europeans have no telling the truth.
@DaJokah & the millions of whites who think like him will struggle with this part of history.
Then, the Colin Ferguson’s would be the NORM. But they are not. Again, I am more likely to be attacked & murdered by a black male, than you are @DaJokah.
Focus on the white perps , that is where the most fun occurs.
The Antioch Group would disagree with you.
“WHO COMMITS HATE CRIMES?
Most perpetrators of hate crimes are white, male, aged 16–25, and are NOT members of any organized hate group.
Organized hate groups account for 8–15% of all hate crimes (Levin & McDevitt, 1993).”
http://antiochgroup.com/resources/articles/hateCrimes.html
“FBI data for 1999 identifies hate crime offenders by race and by their association with the commission of other crimes. In 1999, nearly 70% of hate crime offenders were white, 16% were black, 4% were multiracial, and 2% were of Asian-Pacific Island origin. Another 1% was Native American and 9% of the offenders were unknown. In terms of other crimes committed, 80% of the reported hate crime offenders in 1999 had also committed other crimes against people; the most frequent of those crimes was intimidation. Another 19% of hate crime offenders were associated with crimes against property such as destruction, damage, or vandalism. In general, most hate crimes are committed by previously law abiding young people harboring some form of disdain or hatred for a member of a particular group. (Source: American Psychological Association; full report available at http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/hate.)”
http://www.partnersagainsthate.org/hate_response_network/who-commits-hate-crimes.html
Let me see if i can find something more current. Because I hate using the 90s to prove a point.
—–
Here we go
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1095465
You are simply projecting white racial paranoia. Black people are not plotting your demise.
We just want acceptance (which is foolish)
And we want the system to be fair & just (which is not in whites best interest, they don’t want competition.)
I stand corrected.
Adonis: 30 – DaJokah: 2
GOD I had fun. Thank you Abagond. 🙂
And DaJokah if I don’t hear from you again, I understand, the truth is a little heavy for you. It was nice sparring with you for a little while. You can “white man shuffle” your way out of this. There are no shortcuts.
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Rick Buddhuu,
It is a common occurrence, as I’ve even seen self-identified Black commenters refer to their African ancestors as having been “owned”. I don’t feel most people actually mean any harm in their use of that word to describe enslaved Africans. Still, I don’t feel that we can ever own the living, regardless of species.
And, yes, I did get the gist of what you were saying despite your choice of phrasing in that particular instance.
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Da Jokah,
Yes and no. I reject the CNN, Baltimore Sun and PBS articles because all they say is that there are suspicious fires which they magically attribute to racism without any support for making that claim. In fact, there are about 600 church fires a year many of which are suspicious. Most of those churches are white not black. And do you know who the largest perpetrators of church fires are? Thieves covering their tracks, disgruntled members getting even and board members/preachers who do it for the insurance. If your church is in disrepair or losing members it’s an easy way out.
I will, however, give limited credibility to the Washington Post and Duke articles. Not for their hysteria but because they actually managed to list racially motivated arsons. WaPo lists 3 drunk teens who burned down a couple of churches and yelled “N” in 1993. Duke lists 2 klansters who burned down a couple of churches in 1995. As far as I know those are the only arsons that had a racial element between 1990 and 1996 during the time this “epidemic” of racially motivated church arsons was supposed to have taken place. The ATF had over 200 agents working on this and as far as I know they found no additional cases.
So why did I ask for the name of a single racial arsonist in 1994? Because it was right in the middle of this “epidemic”. And out of 520 fires that year NOT A SINGLE ONE was found to be racially motivated. Like I said, the racial arson “epidemic” was a fraud.
I repeat the challenge. Prove me wrong by listing the name of a single racial arsonist at the height of the “epidemic” in 1994. Either that or admit the so-called “epidemic” was a fraud.
In other words, they don’t fly.
I rest my case…again.
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Mary Burrell said:
Thanks very much. That is reassuring.
Flamma said:
Thank you.
I’m a vegetarian. I also consider the cat who lives with us to be a room-mate, not a possession. 🙂 However, she considers me to be a fairly dumb servant.
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The more things change the more they stay the same unless we do something about it. If a group of people in the position of power or authority decide to do nothing but check the block, don’t expect anything good to happen. Contrary to popular belief, this is not a country of “Love it or leave it” but a country of “Love it or work to change it and make it better. You can get in one of two lines, the line to be a part of the problem or the line to be a part of the solution.
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@ Rick Buddhuu,
I managed to come up with the “thinning of the herd” philosophy to excuse my habit of eating meat. Your comment is a reminder that I’ve put vegetarianism on the back burner long enough.
I know that it is important to combine whole grains, beans, lentils, nuts, fruit and vegetables in such a way to form a complete protein, but that’s about it. I will start my research on the subject today with the aim of transitioning for starters, at least, to lacto-ovo vegetarianism.
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[…] Denise McNair (1963) – killed along with three other black girls in a church bombing by four white terrorists. One killer died in 1994 without being charged. The other three got life sentences in 1977, 2001 and 2002. One is still alive. […]
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[…] On Sunday September 15th 1963 the Ku Klux Klan bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, killing four girls: Addie Mae Collins, age 14 (1949-1963) Cynthia Wesley, age 14 (1949-1… […]
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[…] On Sunday September 15th 1963 the Ku Klux Klan bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, killing four girls: Addie Mae Collins, age 14 (1949-1963) Cynthia Wesley, age 14 (1949-1… […]
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[…] On Sunday September 15th 1963 the Ku Klux Klan bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, killing four girls: Addie Mae Collins, age 14 (1949-1963) Cynthia Wesley, age 14 (1949-1… […]
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A friend of a FB friend said that Denise McNair was a friend of Condoleezza Rice. Checked it out and that’s right.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/14/condoleezza-rice-birmingham-bombing-killed-childhood-friend_n_3925759.html
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Remembering those who died in church bombing in Birmingham on this day. May they rest in peace.
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Mary
Thanks for the reminder. I sadly always forget the day.
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@ Mary Burrell
Thanks.
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[…] T. Washington, Paul Robeson, Marian Anderson. When the 19 sticks of dynamite planted by the Klan exploded at 10:22 that Sunday morning, the four girls had just come from Bible Study – Matthew 5: […]
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