The following is mostly based on chapter seven of “Lone Survivors: How We Came to Be the Only Humans on Earth” (2012) by Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London:
Huge advances in reading DNA since the 1980s means we can now work out a rough history like this:
- 6,000,000 years ago: the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans (and their head lice)
- 3,000,000: the naked ape: early man is now mostly hairless (head lice and pubic hair lice are now different)
- 500,000: Denisovans
- 350,000: Neanderthals
- 135,000: humans (Homo sapiens). Mitochondrial Eve in East Africa – the woman that all living humans come from
- 115,000: Africans and (future) Eurasians split.
- 100,000: huge increase in human head lice (presumably from a huge increase in humans)
- 60,000: humans in the Middle East
- 55,000: Eurasians split into Europeans and Asians. They are already light-skinned but will get even lighter
- 50,000: humans in South East Asia
- 45,000: humans in Europe
- 40,000: In Africa, Pygmies and Khoisan split.
- 30,000: Neanderthals die out
- 20,000: blue eyes start to become common in Europe
- 15,000: humans in North America
- 11,000: Europeans get whiter
A million years ago our direct ancestor was Homo heidelbergensis. They became Neanderthals in Europe, Denisovans in Asia and, in Africa, they became us. We have a good genetic read on all three.
The humans who left Africa seemed to have mated with Neanderthals so that they are now about 2% Neanderthal. But it is not the same 2% everywhere.
In addition, humans in Melanesia (New Guinea and islands east) are about 5% Denisovan.
No one is sure what these Neanderthal or Denisovan genes do. Probably they fight diseases found outside Africa. The Neanderthal genes that whites got did not make their skin lighter or make them fit for the cold north, so it is likely they mixed with Neanderthals in North Africa or the Middle East, not in Europe.
The farther away you get from Africa on foot the less genetically diverse Homo sapiens become. That means there was very little mating overall with Denisovans, Neanderthals and whoever else was out there.
There is one exception: Melanesia. It is the most genetically diverse place outside of Africa. Possibly because humans did mate with those who were there before – the Denisovans at least, maybe others.
The genes that make us different from Neanderthals handle stuff like brain function, skin, hair, sweat glands, sperm activity and the structure of the skull and skeleton. The genes we know about that directly affect language are the same in both.
The known genetic differences between humans in different parts of the world mainly concern junk DNA, disease, body shape and looks. Some of it is naturally selected by climate, like skin colour. Some by sexual selection, like eye colour. And some by mere chance (genetic drift, the founder effect), like the thickness of lips.
Intelligence: 50,000 years is long enough for genetic differences in intelligence to appear, but IQ tests hardly prove it. If IQs were mostly genetic you would expect to see huge differences within Africa and, apart from Melanesia, smaller differences as you move away from Africa.
See also:
Great post, Abagond
Im wondering if they are going to find that Native Americans arrived there before 15,000 years ago?
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Slightly OT, but Andrea Searcy is pretty attractive!
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Unfortunately this is just wishful thinking in an attempt to hang on to the fairy tale evolutionary theory of apes evolving into humans. It just makes no sense when viewed in the light of conflicting evidence like this.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1212060/Ancient-skeletons-discovered-Georgia-threaten-overturn-theory-human-evolution.html#ixzz1s8HmJ8a2
Why is it so important to believe that Humans evolved separately, unassisted in one small part of the world (Africa) before spreading to the rest of the world?
Whose agenda doe this suit?
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Ha, ok, Kwamla, pretty interesting…..
It just goes to show you that we have a lot to learn and the whole thing could change based on the next discovery…
Its strange if people get too set in their ways about what the history is or our physical reality…there are always new discoveries that could change the whole thing
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Ironically enough, I just put through an order for the NatGeo Gen 2.0 DNA test, which will supposedly reveal not only the geographical migrations of my ancient ancestors, but also whether or not some of them were Neanderthals and / or Denisovans.
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It suits those who believe that some races are superior to others
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I hope that i am not being impolite, if i inquire as to whom were your ancient ancestors.
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Good post.
@kwamla:
Untill the other possible explanations will be proven as well as this one, mans origins in Africa and spread out from there, this is the one we got. There are gaps and questions for this theory, and there always should be, but for me this is the most rational and, based on all available evidence, most likely. So untill the evidence says otherwise, I go along with this.
@jared:
“Whose agenda doe this suit?
It suits those who believe that some races are superior to others”
No in my mind. On the contrary, this proves that we are the one huma race, we all are the same. There are no races, but one human race, originating from Africa. Yes, there are differences on “junk DNA” and in enviromental influences (suhc as the skin color etc.) but basically this states that there is now one human race on the planet. Not many like the racists insist.
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Jared,
I’m a Black American of multiracial descent. My ancestry (as far as I am aware) derives from North America, Africa and Europe.
I had the mtDNA test done a few years back and according to the results of that test, I descend from a woman who lived in east Africa upwards of 70,000 years ago. Many of her descendants of today reside not in west or central Africa, but in SE Africa, which I found surprising.
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@ Fiamma
Fascinating stuff indeed, thank you for sharing.
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@ Flamma
Oh cool. I have thought about taking one of those tests.
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Another piece of evidence which tends to contradict the all modern humans evolved only out of Africa theory:
“…Modern man is a combination of hominid species, Caucasians and Asians have from 1% – 4% Neanderthal DNA, Africans don’t have any…”
(http://youtu.be/MYAYJEklql4)
Which means this obviously cannot be true:
“…The farther away you get from Africa on foot the less genetically diverse Homo sapiens become. That means there was very little mating overall with Denisovans, Neanderthals and whoever else was out there…”
Modern day Africans are not considered to share any Neanderthal DNA yet clearly there is evidence that they migrated out into Europe from South Africa and back to East Africa. So why is there no Neanderthal DNA found in Africa?
A one step evolutionary theory makes no sense unless of course the aim is to show that all human beings on this planet evolved at the same time. Again why is this so important and whose agenda would it suit if this were true?
Because the evidence clearly suggests this not to be the case.
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Genetically yes. But “Belief” in differences between peoples have a far more profound effect upon our current society that Junk DNA.
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Kwamla, just thinking about what you said and the discovery you brought in…it seems that that discovery was one kind of earliar humanoid that came back to Africa, and then there had to be many years of evolution and then maybe the Neandrothal humanoid went up in another migration…im just speculating , of course
800,000 years is an immence number of years , its not surprising in that time for the next evolution of humanoids to make the migration again
I think modern man came over the beiring straights much ealiar than 15,000 years ago
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Abagond,
Yes, finding out my very early origins through my maternal female line was pretty cool. Men are the lucky ones here though, one test can reveal their mtDNA origins, as well as their Y-DNA (the paternal side male lineage). MtDNA, the same as Y-DNA, is only a small percentage of one’s total genetic profile.
The autosomal DNA test, the type I just ordered, is the one which offers a more thorough breakdown of one’s geographic ancestral origins.
The NatGeo Gen 2,0 is only available to current participants of the Genome Project. However, there are several other companies which perform the autosomal test.
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@B.R
“…A one step evolutionary theory makes no sense unless of course the aim is to show that all human beings on this planet evolved at the same time. Again why is this so important and whose agenda would it suit if this were true?
Because the evidence clearly suggests this not to be the case….”
Sorry but the linear evolutionary process is flawed. Although Africa is rightly acknowledged as the earliest place of modern day humans on this planet. Other modern humans evolved at other times and other places on the planet too – China, Australia, Americas etc..But for some reason we are instructed to believe this was a linear connection. Again why?
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Kwamla , I confess, I am trying to wrap my brain around the concepts , I dont even totaly get the “linear” concept , yet, Im ideaologicly oposed to any theory that could imply inferiority to any group of people , or anything that feeds into white racist depictions.
The information of the link you brought in is incredible and Im trying to digest it and grasp all the implications…and, of course, not being well educated on anthropology, it takes me a minute to put the definitions of the various humans that evolved in their perspective eras…
In that respect, Im an eager spectator to the diolougue you brought in
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+B. R. I’ve read that Native Americans have been in the Americas for around 30,000 years
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@Kwamla
Scientist don’t claim humans evolved from apes. They only claim that we share a common ancestor with them
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Glenn , yes,I can beleive that…I actualy saw a documentary about an arceaologist who found ruins in Mexico that date back even farther, and she used the standard technology to date it…she was totaly shunned by the academic community and her career was severly affected by that
Ill try to find a link and bring it in
If the Beiring Straights were crossable, for many thousands of years, its a good bet humans followed herds of animals to cross over probably more than once
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@ Kwamla:
so what are you actually suggesting? If humans did not evolve from apes (or at least an ape-like ancestor), then what happened?
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Darwinian and evolutionary theory are complete speculative nonsense for which the historical and archeological evidence just does not add up. The trouble is we’ve all been drilled to be believe this as fact. When its not!. For years scientists tried to find the so-called “missing link” between Apes and Humans. But they can’t and they never will!
I’ve already posed the question as to why it should be so important to believe that all life evolved independently of its own accord (following a big bang?) on this planet? While this may be conceivable its not by any means the only rational or logical explanation as to how this could have happened. The mass of evidence says otherwise – if you look for it and read it. Yet scientists and our educational institutions will insist that we believe, and we too convince ourselves, that millions of years of linear evolution is the only way it could have happened?
Here is what an independent scientific researcher David Wilcock has said about the origins of people, and in particular, Black people on this planet:
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This may be even harder to prove than evolution .
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@ Kwamla:
dude, I like a lot of stuff you’ve had to say on this blog over the years. But that is some crazy nonsense. There’s a reason David Wilcock is an “independent anthropologist” – because every other person with a science degree would think he’s got a screw loose.
“For years scientists tried to find the so-called “missing link” between Apes and Humans. But they can’t and they never will!”
This is actually a fallacy. No scientist is looking for a missing link. There is plenty of evidence for transitional forms between humans and their ape-like ancestors (see Abagond’s other post on human evolution).
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Kwamla , I have heard some compelling evidence that has made me double think many conventional points of view about the past and even the posibility of
something that could be coming from outside the earth…but it was compelling evidence, backed by facts that could only be wondered at because of the implications….that doesnt mean that Im beleiving it hook line and sinker, but, it makes me very open minded to posibilities…
But, Im not feeling this guy so much…yet ( at least I havent seen his research that would show why he came up with theories of differant looking people from differant planets coming to earth to create differant looking people on the earth).
The sun is one powerful force that can influence how people can look, and, Ive seen first hand how my son, who is mixed, can get extremly dark in the sun down in Brazil, but, if we go north for any period of time , that isnt a powerful summer sun, he gets light …which only makes me think that people living in differant areas in the world can be very affected over a long evolutionary period based on exposure to the sun. It doesnt mean everyone evolving on the Equator looks alike. Native Amazon Americans look differant from people on the Equator in Africa, yet the Native Amazon Americans migrated over the Beiring Straights….in most cases…new evidence suggests other arrivals from the Pacific and Africa.( a recent discovery of ancient bones in the Amazon hook it up with Africa)..but, the majority of DNA testing of Amazon people corrolates with the Beiring Straights migration
This guy offers no proof of his claims…..but, make no mistake, I am open to theories that imply the unbeleivable, if they have compelling enough evidance that conventional wisdom just cant answer
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@ Eurasian Sensation & B.R
“…This is actually a fallacy. No scientist is looking for a missing link. There is plenty of evidence for transitional forms between humans and their ape-like ancestors (see Abagond’s other post on human evolution)…”
Actually NO! There is not plenty of evidence for transitional forms between humans and apes. There is no fossil evidence to support what is simply a speculative proposition!
If your interested you might find a bit more information on the scientific research David Wilcock has done on this subject and more here:
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@Kwamla
Ahem
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I forget how to embed videos.
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My previous post is a playlist. The next video starts immediately after the previous one is concluded.
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Kwamla, please dont lump me in with Eurasion sensation or any other skeptic when I have stated information that could support what you are saying and is actualy more compelling than yours..
I just get skeptical at the people who think they can describe a lizard population of aliens who are about to take over the earth…at least Graham is talking about ayuasca that has been noted in human evolution for more than 40,000 years
Its like the people who think they can describe god and that is why I abandoned and despise organised religion since I was a kid
I apologise for not being able to bring in a youtube about the docu I saw that really uses the Western scientific information and throws it in the face of that kind of skeptic thinking, it goes much farther to raising the real questions of what the reality could be than these guys talking about alien invasions
The san script from India is chock full of things that could support what you are getting at
I absolutly intend to look into some of these other people you have mentioned, but, the first one about “Washinton”, and the other about impending lizard invasion arnt convincing at all, I brought in things much more compelling that support your point of view
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…my links to the Naca lines, the Inda san script, the information from the docu I keep talking about are on the other thread about human evolution , just so I dont confuse anyone reading, they arent on this one
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@ B.R
Keeping doing your own investigation and research into what intrigues you and I think you will discover as much, if not more than I have. In the first instance its the need to cling to existing belief paradigms which prevents most of us from properly exploring other areas.
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@ D
By the way I an not a “creationist” in the biblical sense. But here is question for you…
A glaring omission in both of those videos you present about the evolutionary process is the question of genetic manipulation. This is not unexpected for one good reason. Scientists don’t fully understand how to do this yet. Yes they have attempted and tried it but not successfully. If this was so many of the intermediate or transitional species or forms would have been created. This is not to imply when they do fully understand how to manipulate genetics they would begin to successfully create these life forms.
So my question to you is this: If genetic manipulation is possible how would it effect the “natural” evolutionary process? Would it not bring this into doubt or question?
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Absolutly , Kwamla, and, you know I have been open and receptive to the great information you have always brought in..I welcome our exchanges and truly have learned things from you on here…
One thing I want to address is, even if there was some kind of “intervention” at some point in evolution, we have to at least acknowledge that our embryos are connected to an evolutionary past
Now , Im not set in stone as to what that means, but, I have to acknowledge that it exists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryology
that doesnt negate that there could be plenty of room for other posibilities of things that could have affected human developement that we arnt aware of yet, or that some people may have questioned, but, at least this embryonic connection means we cant just throw Darwin out the window
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If white people were the progeny of of alien invaders, their genome would be vastly different from ours, so different that miscegenation would be impossible between all human races. In fact, if it were even possible to interbreed with extraterrestrials, the children would be infertile freaks like mules and ligers and any evidence of their existence would meet a sorry and painful end. That is to say, our friendly aliens would never become grandparents and none of their descendants would be living among us. More over, if they were knowledgeable to cross vast amounts of space, what stopped them from interbreeding with Africans?
That’s assuming these aliens are hominids. If intelligent life did exist elsewhere, and I believe it does, it’s statistically impossible for them to possess genitals that are compatible to ours, let alone a genome that’s compatible. Hell, they wouldn’t even be apes or mammals like ourselves. Evolution on this planet alone has produced a plethora of plant and animal species that can’t interbreed, and all plants and animals originate from the same basil species. The idea that an organism that arose from a different planet with different selective pressures and chemical environment, would yield an intelligent great ape all but indistinguishable from modern humans is ridiculous.
The fact is that we do see variety exceeding human variety in other species, such as the variety of extinct and extant lion and tiger subspecies. There used to be an even greater variety of mammal species, including human species. The article you posted only proves the existence of other human species aside from our own, which isn’t surprising or even new information (Protip: science is often sensationalized in news media. Never take it at face value). Homo erectus alone ventured out of Africa and into Asia, as have other Humans (yes, they are humans in the same sense that African Wild Dogs are dogs, but aren’t the same species as our house pets.) When they did they continued to evolve and adapt to their new habitats as well as interbreed with newcomers on occasion. Our species is the latest human species of mostly African stock; pure African stock south of the Sahara, who followed other Humans into Asia and interbreed occasionally.
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@Kwamla
“If genetic manipulation is possible how would it effect the “natural” evolutionary process? Would it not bring this into doubt or question?”
First of all it’s omitted because it’s a non sequitur. Your creationism may not be religious, but it runs into many of the same problems. There is no evidence of genetic engineers thousands of years ago. No fossils of the supposed engineers have been found. Even cities built without stone and lacking written records leave evidence of existence. Nor are these engineers necessary, no matter how special you feel about human. Evolution can and does account for all the varieties of Human species, just as it does for all the canine species, avian species, crocodilian species, etc. Also, without a motive, the answer to your question is limitless. Were early humans, pets, food, cheap labor, or something else?
Currently, we can transfer genes from one species to another for desired results. If it was a simple manner of horizontal gene transfer, we would find proteins and genes from modern, but distantly related, species with no possible ancestral genes belonging to apes or mammals. Assuming that’s the case, given all we know even if such genes exist, nature still did most of the work, otherwise human populations would be too distant to interbreed. Even our intelligence, our defining feature, is perfectly within the range of a deletion mutation, as one of the videos in the playlist explains. Thus far, no such genes exist that I’m aware of.
Genetic Engineering tends to march toward specialization (what laymen call perfection. Perfect speed, power, size, cuteness, etc), look at the various, though largely genetically shallow dog breeds for a more indirect example, while nature favors variety and flexibility. The transitional fossils were basil and flexible organisms, this is why it’s accepted that they are our ancestors. Modern humans are also relatively basil.
Early and modern human populations would be enormous throughout millions of years. No matter what the purpose, it would be expected that billions of us existed to fulfill that purpose.
Gestation would be a lot shorter, as would the years necessary for sexual maturity. 13 years and 8 months minimum is too long for practical and economic use. Triplets, quadruplets, and so on would be typical.
We wouldn’t be the sole surviving human species, as the engineers would be invested in keeping the others alive.
We would have advanced technology since, well, forever. Not just pyramids, but biological machinery, Type 1 civilization at least. Some homo sapiens will have learned the sciences of these precursors.
None renewable resources would be exhausted, assuming these engineers are Earthlings, thus the industrial revolution could not have occurred.
Our solar system would be enclosed by a massive spherical structure, dedicated to absorbing as much of the sun’s light for energy as possible, assuming the engineers are Aliens.
There would be no rhyme or reason for Europeans to have definitively European traits, or Asians, or Oceania people, or Native Americans. Instead, these traits would spread all around the planet fairly evenly with no geographic boundaries marking the beginning and end of residence. Europeans and North East asians especially throw a wrench in the scenario. Both groups have fair skin, but the genes developed independently. Why would they invent the wheel twice, especially if they’re of the same civilization?
If they possess enough mastery of genetics to write an entire functioning genome from beginning to end from scratch, we would find species that do not fit anywhere in modern phylogeny. All multi-cellular species, including ourselves, fit neatly into the Tree of Life.
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Isn’t this kind of the plot line from Prometheus??
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<blockquote<That’s assuming these aliens are hominids. If intelligent life did exist elsewhere, and I believe it does, it’s statistically impossible for them to possess genitals that are compatible to ours, let alone a genome that’s compatible. Hell, they wouldn’t even be apes or mammals like ourselves. Evolution on this planet alone has produced a plethora of plant and animal species that can’t interbreed, and all plants and animals originate from the same basil species. The idea that an organism that arose from a different planet with different selective pressures and chemical environment, would yield an intelligent great ape all but indistinguishable from modern humans is ridiculous.
You are assuming that life was not seeded from a single source; because if it was then most life in the Universe would have very similar attributes.
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@ D
“…If white people were the progeny of of alien invaders, their genome would be vastly different from ours, so different that miscegenation would be impossible between all human races…”
This is an interesting statement you’ve made filled with at least two assumptions I wonder if you are aware of.
The first is that Black and white people or more specifically Africans and Europeans are separate races. Even evolutionary theory doesn’t advocate this and for good reason because it would be considered racist.
The second is that Earth humans are a totally different species to any other possible species of ET human that exists in the Cosmos. This is the bigger erroneous assumption and is one that fossilised evidence already studied by more open minded scientists have already started to question.
http://www.starchildproject.com/
“…That’s assuming these aliens are hominids. If intelligent life did exist elsewhere, and I believe it does, it’s statistically impossible for them to possess genitals that are compatible to ours, let alone a genome that’s compatible. Hell, they wouldn’t even be apes or mammals like ourselves. Evolution on this planet alone has produced a plethora of plant and animal species that can’t interbreed, and all plants and animals originate from the same basil species. The idea that an organism that arose from a different planet with different selective pressures and chemical environment, would yield an intelligent great ape all but indistinguishable from modern humans is ridiculous. …
Much of what you argue like this stems from a lack of real actual knowledge of how life on this and other planets came into being. All we have to work this out is what we’ve been indoctrinated into believing is true from our educational institutions. Unfortunately, as a lot more open minded scientifically informed researchers are finding out most of this is either total distorted, wrong or a complete falsification!
I am not saying here I know conclusively what the full history is. I’ve discovered parts. What I am saying is I know what we’ve been taught to believe, as you beautifully illustrate in your opposing comments, is factually wrong. However, you will never be able to find or discover this fact for your self unless you challenge yourself, in the light of abundant contrary evidence, to question the official paradigm on evolution. Of course in order to do this you have to be prepared to look at alternative and non-traditional sources otherwise you simply end up regurgitating all that you’ve officially been told is true. When its not!
“…The fact is that we do see variety exceeding human variety in other species, such as the variety of extinct and extant lion and tiger subspecies. There used to be an even greater variety of mammal species, including human species…”
The very existence for the variety of human, animal and plant species we experience on this planet cannot be accounted for, by itself, by a theory of natural selection and separate linear evolutionary development. Its this which is really ridiculous and total nonsense.
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@Someguy
“You are assuming that life was not seeded from a single source; because if it was then most life in the Universe would have very similar attributes.”
At the molecular level perhaps, but even animals on our planet have a variety of incompatible reproductive mechanisms, and we know all life on Earth came from one “seed”.
Crossbreeding with ET is a statistic impossibility, single seed or not. All life on Earth arose from a single common ancester. Yet you cannot breed a Jaguars with a Puma, even though they are both of the family Felidae.
Remember, Jaguars and Pumas are at least on the same continent, related, but still cannot interbreed. Earthlike planets are lightyears away, allowing for vastly different evolutionary lineages genotypically and phenotypically.
@Kwamla
“This is an interesting statement you’ve made filled with at least two assumptions I wonder if you are aware of.
The first is that Black and white people or more specifically Africans and Europeans are separate races. Even evolutionary theory doesn’t advocate this and for good reason because it would be considered racist.”
A bad habit of mine. All taxonomy below species are arbitrary. Replace race with population, clades, etc.
“The second is that Earth humans are a totally different species to any other possible species of ET human that exists in the Cosmos. This is the bigger erroneous assumption and is one that fossilised evidence already studied by more open minded scientists have already started to question.”
The onus is on you to prove that not only do ETs exist, but they contacted Earth, are placental Mammals, apes, and of the Homo genus to boot.
Those scientists aren’t open minded, they’re imaginative. A human ET violates the laws of nature and evolution. Even if ET looked like humans, a la Klingons, they wouldn’t truly be human, and thus couldn’t interbreed. In a similar vein, Hyenas look like dogs, but are closer to cats.
Sorry, the starchild isn’t an alien hybrid. It’s an unfortunate deformed child possessing genetic markers concurrent with Native American peoples.
http://books.google.com/books?id=xmDnhPNLwYwC&pg=PA246#v=onepage&q&f=false
I’ve met people with deformed heads, why is this so spectacular?
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@D
If you are really serious about having this discussion with me you really do need to honestly and openly review alternative information I present to you. On this occasion you clearly haven’t. If you had you would have found that opening video in that link to the Starchild skull deals conclusively with objections you raise and more.
Simply reasserting a dogmatic view of what we have already been told about what is and what is not possible is not being open to reviewing new or different evidence.
Here are some more simple questions for you. Why should it matter to you whether ETs exist or not? What would it mean for you if they did? Could you honestly say it would make no difference for you what so ever?
If you can answer truthfully YES to this last question then you could easily find all the proof you need just by googling the internet. Of course if you cannot answer YES then you also have your reason why you would require and ask me for proof.
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Well, I don’t know if it is possible for two species from different planets to breed (no one on this planet knows anyway); I do believe that advanced technology would seem like magic (or at least impossible) to primitives.
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@ Someguy
The point it this: the origin of life on this planet came from other planets and was genetically engineered to adapt to life on this planet. Just because our scientists don’t know how to do this today doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been done by other scientists or ETs from another planet.
But I know for some people this may be too hard to accept. Just like life could exist in the trillions of unknown galaxies in our known universe…It really is a hard one to swallow…!
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Perhaps Homo sapiens sapiens are the result not of sexual reproduction between an early hominid in our lineage and an ET, but of a petrie dish-style genetic tinkering performed by ETs on an early ancestor. [I haven’t read all the comments; sorry if this has already been covered.]
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If you are really serious about having this discussion with me you really do need to honestly and openly review alternative information I present to you. On this occasion you clearly haven’t. If you had you would have found that opening video in that link to the Starchild skull deals conclusively with objections you raise and more.
Simply reasserting a dogmatic view of what we have already been told about what is and what is not possible is not being open to reviewing new or different evidence.
Considering that all the data on Starchild is coming from one source, a man who already has a vested belief in an ET origin for human life, I will take this more seriously when Pye gives the skull to several others for genetic analysis.
To throw you a bone, if Pye isn’t lying, the skull isn’t Homo sapiens sapiens. An ET origin still isn’t necessary, or even remotely probable, as even in that case it is most likely a recently extinct human species.
Here are some more simple questions for you. Why should it matter to you whether ETs exist or not? What would it mean for you if they did? Could you honestly say it would make no difference for you what so ever?
Careful. Asking for the motives behind my skepticism suggests you are the one taking the leap of faith. Don’t change the subject.
If you can answer truthfully YES to this last question then you could easily find all the proof you need just by googling the internet. Of course if you cannot answer YES then you also have your reason why you would require and ask me for proof.
Yes, it isn’t significant to me one way or another. What is significant to me is acquiring the truth, or at the very least the closest thing to the truth my 5 senses can provide me. To that end, I must relentless attack, criticize, and scrutinize every fringe and mainstream claim ever made.
I can google proof that I am a degenerate savage with no control over my lust for White women by vice of my skin color. I can google proof that the universe is 6000 years old. I can google proof that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. There’s a lot of proof on google that belongs in the trash, and only dogged effort and brutal skepticism will separate the mud from the gold. Pye’s website simply doesn’t cut . Were I in his position, I’d create thousands of DNA samples via Polymerase Chain Reaction and send around the world to be rigorously tested, because that’s what any half competent scientist itching to get the truth would do. Instead, he hoards it for himself and his pet geneticists while he collects a fund that, given the inherent gravity of his skull, and the PCR technique, shouldn’t be necessary.
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@ Fiamma
“…Perhaps Homo sapiens sapiens are the result not of sexual reproduction between an early hominid in our lineage and an ET, but of a petrie dish-style genetic tinkering performed by ETs on an early ancestor….”
This is exactly the point and there is much evidence to prove this was the case. But equally there is as much dis-information to hide this reality from us. You only have to review “D’s” comments to see how this plays itself out in our own psyches.
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@ D
“…Considering that all the data on Starchild is coming from one source, a man who already has a vested belief in an ET origin for human life, I will take this more seriously when Pye gives the skull to several others for genetic analysis…”
There is nothing wrong in declaring a vested belief in something. In fact this would be considered an honourable approach. However, there is a lot to be said for those of us not declaring a vested interest in something. And intentionally attempting to hide this bias in the name of “apparent” objectivity. This can be considered a less than honourable approach. I’ve observed white people do this many times when it comes to discussions about racism. And its one most people will have experienced when a salesperson tried to sell you a product they believed was just right for you.
So again the question for you to consider here is do you also have an undeclared vested interest in this apparent theory of natural evolution? Judging by your responses this may well be a rhetorical question!
“…Careful. Asking for the motives behind my skepticism suggests you are the one taking the leap of faith. Don’t change the subject…
I ask these questions simply to expose your own self biases and undeclared interests in the hope of having an honest and open debate. An inability to engage in this practise can seriously hamper discussion as you seem avidly keen on demonstrating.
“…Yes, it isn’t significant to me one way or another. What is significant to me is acquiring the truth, or at the very least the closest thing to the truth my 5 senses can provide me. To that end, I must relentless attack, criticize, and scrutinize every fringe and mainstream claim ever made…”
These are strong words that obviously conceal a latent desire and passion which I suppose you wouldn’t allow to overly influence an objective assessment of Lloyd Pye’s 13 years of scientific investigative research into this 900 year old skull… Right?
One more thought to consider: which one of those 5 senses covers your intuition? Or is this not a sense you would generally recognise as being of any real use?
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I wish those “ET” scientist would stop by someday and explain to me the science of racism.
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Yes the malevolent ETs have a lot to answer for because the ideas for practices like slavery and racism did not originate exclusively from Earth humans. Its a practise that had to be taught here first..
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The evolution of intelligence…
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40,000 years ago there were 5, or possibly 6–human populations
1. Modern Humans–everywhere except North and South America.
2. Neanderthal man–Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia.
At Mount Carmel in Israel, Modern humans and Neanderthals
lived in adjacent caves (Skhul and Tabun, respectively), possibly
at the same time, and there may have been some hanky panky
going on. Did the modern looking people tell their children not
to get involved with those ugly little trolls (the Neanderhals)
next door?
3. Flores man–the so-called “hobbits–Flores Island, Indonesia.
Flores man seems to resemble Homo habilis–a late survivor
maybe?
4. Solo man–a larger brained version of Dubois’s Java man–Java,
Indonesia. Another late survivor–of Homo erectus.
5. The Denisovians–East Asia
6. The (recently discovered) Red Deer cave people.
The Denisovians are known only from their DNA and could be the
same as Solo Man or the Red Deer Cave people.
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Any extra terrestrial intellegent organisms are going to be VERY
different from humans, or, for that matter, from any terrestrial
animal. They may be cyborgs–organic brains in mechanical bodies–
or autonomous robots. Interbreeding is out of the question.
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Haven’t they also found Denisovian DNA in PPG people? Any prehistoric non-Homo Sapien hominid DNA in other populations besides Neanderthal?
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See also this recently posted link too here…
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I’ld like to say they have found some much older DNA “Y” (so male) from a man that lived in the US. The newest evidence also shows a much older line in the Americas, that doesn’t go with the long walk theory. But it is known that the continents were not always the way we see them now. We’ve been more connected. We’re actually seeing how quickly plates can shift even now. As for them finding an ancient missing link? Well if we evolved from Apes, why are there still Apes??
Time lines and dates are speculation, but we are all related, that much is proven. The star child thing. That data shows nothing other than mutation, and from the Y(male side) there is almost nothing. But hey if you want to be alien so be it. We all carry star dust. And we’re getting a lot of that as we speak, the yellow dust and red being found in comets, meteors.
So alien, yes that too.
I love your webpage, ty so much.
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It’s sad to see an intelligent person like Abagond falling for Darwin’s ridiculous theory that had been debunked by biblical scholars many times over.
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Can we please look at the facts here? Evolution is NOT what happened.
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