Here is my shortened, bulleted version of Karnythia’s post of the same name on Angry Black Woman:
- State your credentials. It’s okay to be a woman, but not a black woman. Their lived experiences are immaterial and can be dismissed as merely anecdotal.
- Make it clear that you are not racist or sexist.
- Say you are merely concerned about their plight: Marriage, children, lack of the above, too much education, not enough education, welfare, whatever you think will sell.
- Highlight their troublesome natures. They aren’t like other women. They are failing to perform in some way that affects the whole of society, even if you can’t quite explain how or why their personal lives are public property.
- Rely heavily on the idea of research that shows the problem is a problem. Never mention exactly when that research was done, or who were the subjects of it.
- Utilize stereotypes whenever possible, preferably ones that tie into the Mammy, Jezebel, or Sapphire tropes.
- Play up their sexuality and remove their humanity:
- their skin is a food stuff,
- the space between their thighs is mysterious,
- they have never ever been innocent.
- When speaking of black mothers make it clear that they need guidance, financial support, or salvation.
- There is no point at which they can balance work and family
- They are emasculating and thus unworthy of relationships,
- Unrapeable, they can be trusted to raise any children but their own, and are sexually available until they become sexless.
- They exist to be support systems, whether for men of all colors or women of every color but black.
- No need to mention their needs, hopes, dreams, or concerns. They have none, even if they do occasionally speak of themselves as real people with feelings. Their voices are too loud, too uneducated, or simply too aggressive. They are always angry about something, but their feelings aren’t real so they don’t matter.
- Specify how reasonable you are in the face of their unreasonable behavior. Write of how you studied them at a safe distance, while proclaiming that some of your closest friends are black women – proof that you know your subject, and are not racist or sexist.
- Contrast them with women of other races, always making sure to highlight that other women are real women, while black women are simply black.
- Feel free to make blanket statements about their religious beliefs, educational levels, income levels, and family dynamics. All of it is true because you say it is, and you are the expert in black women, not any actual black women.
- If they are offended by your words, remind them of your credentials and refuse to engage in a conversation with them until they can be less emotional. Point to their tone as a reason to doubt the veracity of their experiences. After all they are only black women and thus they know nothing, own nothing, and are worth nothing but what you say they are.
See also:
- Angry Black Woman: How To Write About Black Women – the full, original post by Karnythia
- The Sapphire stereotype – angry
- The Jezebel stereotype – sex machine
- The Mammy stereotype – support system
- The tone argument
- “Some of my best friends are black”
- Zora Neale Hurston: What White Publishers Won’t Print
Whaooo……..Very heady and controversial stuff. Still very common too.
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Abagond,
Another great post that got me thinking.
As a black woman, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard whites say blanket statements about us.
But when you ask them to back up their statements with facts, they quote the dreaded media.
All these terrible ideas about the black woman comes from fear of the black woman.
We are strong.
We are capable of running a household, with or without a man, and do it DAMN well I might add.
We persevere in the face of racism AND sexism and with getting an education!
Even though we are constantly being compared to the blonde / blue eyed white woman, we are envied because of our smooth skin, full lips, womanly figure and fierce spirit. All things white women secretly wished they possessed.
As for the men, whom are mostly white, that criticize us, they do so out of desperate need to have us. Control us. They have always wanted us and it shows in today’s society more than ever.
Why all the vitriol about something that displeases you so?
Look at Michelle Obama.
Any of those white men who trash her probably lay in bed at night burning with need for her…and they know it.
The black woman has always gotten a raw deal. And will continue to do so.
Our white counterparts envy us so much, the only way to feel better about themselves is through our destruction!
But if I know the black woman, and I do, we’ll never back down.
And somewhere, deep within the crack of the the white soul, they know that.
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Thank you very much for these tips Abagond. I will remember to use them.
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Oh, be honest. Most of the vitriol and violence directed at Black women is done by Black men. It’s Black men robbing Black women, Black men raping Black women, Black men impregnating Black women and then abandoning them, Black men giving Black women STDs, Black men sponging off of Black women, Black men telling Black women how ugly they are, and then getting enraged and upset if she goes off and dates a white man. If a Black woman is raped, statswise it’s about 100% that it’s a Black man who raped her. White women aren’t trying to destroy Black women, the Black community is destroying itself. The only thing that is protecting a Black woman from being raped or beaten or robbed is white male-dominated law enforcement.
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I knew the trolls would come out with this topic, Abagond!
Let’s wait to see what dumb shite is said about this!!!
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Jay,
You really have a problem with Black men. I bet you’re jealous of Michelle Obama because she’s married to a good Black man.
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P.S. Philly, you’re the one with the problem. If a Black woman prefers Black men, you have a big problem with that, don’t you? You probably call us “sluts” just like your racist cousin Roissy(Now Heartiste) from DC. It must hurt that we prefer Black men, don’t you?
S.
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@JayfromPhilly
If a Black woman is raped, statswise it’s about 100% that it’s a Black man who raped her.
Of course, because WM dont rape and never have done in the history of this universe, particularly not BW – do they *sigh*
White women aren’t trying to destroy Black women,
Well of course not – who else would they have to make them feel better about themselves if not by comparing themselves to these slovenly, downtrodden BW.
the Black community is destroying itself. Ahh, I see. They are the ones perpetuating all these myths and stereotypes, manifesting them to Epic proportions, thus ensuring that for many, they are remain firmly in the quagmire of their day to day existence.
The only thing that is protecting a Black woman from being raped or beaten or robbed is white male-dominated law enforcement.
You really are taking this role as self appointed Neighborhood watch too seriously Jay. But one step at a time. It seems you see yourself in the role of Special Constable (or whatever the equivalent is in the U.S) but you may not pass muster as you seem to know a lot of dodgy people…..
Calm yourself down will ya. Judging by your past comments you need to take a look in your own backyard – it seems that with at least every other post you write you either allude to or comment on knowing some dubious individual with a nefarious background.
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“It seems you see yourself in the role of Special Constable (or whatever the equivalent is in the U.S) but you may not pass muster as you seem to know a lot of dodgy people…..
Calm yourself down will ya. Judging by your past comments you need to take a look in your own backyard – it seems that with at least every other post you write you either allude to or comment on knowing some dubious individual with a nefarious background.”
“If a Black woman prefers Black men, you have a big problem with that, don’t you? … It must hurt that we prefer Black men, don’t you?”
************************
Brilliant observations Demerera & Stephaniegirl
Ole jealous Neighborhood Watchman, Jay from Philly (probably a direct descendant of someone who self-appointed himself to a slave patrol) seems to like to tell on himself, by what he says – and doesn’t say!
Hey Jay – the ladies on this board have you pegged, perfectly!!
Thanks for the entertainment!
LMAO
You’re a very funny dude.
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Great post. You can tell because the trolls have already exploded on the scene! 😆
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What gets under my skin with Philly is his entitlement mentality. It’s like that with men like him, especially that man who trolled RacismReview:
——————————————-
ThatOneGuy says:
June 1, 2011 at 12:54 am
I am white man who has dated women of every ethnic group, and no Swan it wasn’t because I was on an “exotic adventure” or assuming they were “hyper-sexual”. In both cases they were black women I worked with who I knew and who had made it clear that they dated white men.
That being said what I know is that the number of black women who will date a white man is small and to get to them I have to deal with black women like you. Who see me as “WHITE” before you see me as a man, who blame me personally for any negative thing that has ever happened to any black person. Your cousin is in prison for robing a Korean store owner-> my fault. Your sister’s baby’s daddy hasn’t sent her child support EVER-> my fault again he would if he wasn’t being held down by yours truly. Your Grandma died of a heart attack-> me again I was probably feeding her poison. Skipping over the fact that most of my family were Russian miners that came over after WWI but that is irrelevant to you. What is important is remembering that I am the root of all that is evil in the universe. In fact I am so powerful that according to you lesser creatures like non-white men have to be criminals they have no choice I-ME-THIS GUY RIGHT HERE forced them into it, that is how powerful I am.
On the other hand if I date Carmen or Nhung or Yuko are they going to tell me that the current state of their brothers, cousins, and fathers is my fault? No for good or bad, and in turn I don’t blame Carmen for acts of the Catholic Church, I don’t tell Yuko that Japanese Imperialism caused much of WWII that devastated my ancestral homeland? No I don’t it wasn’t her and she had no part in it.
So no it isn’t the racism of white men against black women that keeps men like me from approaching a black women. It is the hostility that so many black women, like you, have towards anyone with a white penis that does that.
————————————————–
I wonder if he and Philly are one and the same guy?
S
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Here’s Julian Real’s reply to that troll:
http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2011/10/discussion-about-white-mens-hostility.html
Priceless!
S.
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Jay from Philly is right!! You guys just can’t handle the truth !!! The white male dominated police force are the only ones that care about Black women’s safety!
Anyone who is not convinced after reading the above link is incapable of logical argument or reasonable thinking!!
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“The only thing that is protecting a Black woman from being raped or beaten or robbed is white male-dominated law enforcement.”
Yeah, right. During the last 300 years no group of men on this continent have raped more women in total and Black women in particular than White men.
How do you think it is that most Black Americans have European blood coursing through our veins. RAPE!
Very interesting post, Abagond. I’ve already started to ignore all the noise in the media about Black women. Most of it involves people trying to profit off of us at this point. But its roots are in a long tradition of racist propaganda that has been around since the first Black woman was dragged off of a ship.
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@Matari
I strongly suspect that Jay is a frustrated man who desperately wants a ‘piece’ of the action – both as self appointed neighborhood watchman and in terms of his interaction with BP, particularly BW.
All his ‘talk’ has been from a peripheral, almosty voyeuristic viewpoint but he ‘knows’ it all. Its a shame cos, at times, he has taken the time to listen but clearly, little if anything sinks in….
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So, at that website I responded as follows:
To ThatOneGuy who acts a whole lot like so many other white guys,
As a white male, I find your comment woefully soaked and bloated with white male supremacist (sexist and racist) assumptions about how you should be treated relative to people without your (and my) race and gender privileges, position, advantages, and status in white male-dominated and ruled societies. I’ll delineate a bit of what I find troubling in what you wrote.
Your apparent offence at being treated as “one of those WHITE dudes, just like all the others” (rather than as the not-so-sensitive white guy you appear to be here?), reveals you are generally and usually being seen and treated as an individual. I’d argue that this usual experience being only occasionally interrupted by exceptional, atypical experiences is the cause for you even registering this as a significant offence. Your offence rests on your socially protected right to be seen as only an individual, even while your race and gender privileges have little to do with your individuality.
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I knew this post would go down this road…by white men in particular.
Know that this is nothing new.
White men have always wanted us.
And if they can’t possess us, they set out to destroy us, defame us and blame us.
We are not white women dipped in chocolate.
The only reason for all the anger is desire, masked in blame.
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The sapphire stereotype was created by whites who we REFUSED and fought against. To live with their defeat, they sought to defame us.
The Jezebel stereotype was created by whites who raped us. To live with the guilt, they LIED to themselves and claimed, ” But they wanted it.”
The mammy stereotype was created by whites who came to us for comfort after their white women REJECTED them. To live with their rejection and feel better about receiving help from us, they made us sexless.
Deal with it.
You, white America, created this.
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To the white readers…
This site was not created for you.
I know that it’s sooooo hard for you to believe that, but it wasn’t.
This world, despite what you have been led to believe, does not revolve around you.
This site was made for us.
To talk, learn and grow from our experiences.
If you don’t like what we have to say, you always have Stormfront, etc.
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Everything starts with the mirror and not the magnifying glass. Check In before you Check Out.
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When it comes to covering black women, there are two topics the media seems to love: unmarried, successful black women who can’t find a man, and black single mothers who are struggling financially. As far as television coverage is concerned, I think just about all the major networks, including cable news networks, have done at least one or two of these kinds of stories.
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why are people getting mad at jay from philly. what he said is the truth. the media didnt start in on black women until our wonderful race traitor black men started talking about us like dogs to white women AND white men. black women arent perfect but we have not crossed that low down dirty line of talking ugly about bm to white folks. you mean cuz a fat, scraggly, tooth missing white chick gave you the time of day? really? how the hell can a bm so easily talk dirty about his own race to his mortal open enemy? traitor!! low down and dirty and you better already hurry up and know all races see this and they will blow this earth up b4 they EVER let the bm have any power on this earth.
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This is the kill shot, right here. Obnoxious well-meaning whites want their “authoritative” voices to be the only ones echoing throughout the room. You’re just some darkie whose experiences don’t mean shit unless they decide that they do, and only if they fit the narrative.
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Aside from the entrance of the usual angry ignorant trolls, this post is spot on.
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@Truthbetold
To the white readers…
This site was not created for you.
I know that it’s sooooo hard for you to believe that, but it wasn’t.
This world, despite what you have been led to believe, does not revolve around you.
This site was made for us.
To talk, learn and grow from our experiences.
If you don’t like what we have to say, you always have Stormfront, etc.
Amen, but sadly their privilege renders them too retarded to understand that simple fact.
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Brotha Wolf,
Amen. I was getting this off my chest when that troll Jay wants to deny that wp have a big role in oppressing and devaluing BW in America and the world. Jay reminds me so much of that other troll, That One Guy, at RacismReview who said similar things. I just cannot let him get away with it without consequences.
S.
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I’ll jut leave this here
http://www.villagevoice.com/2002-07-30/news/the-rise-of-the-black-nerd/
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@Jay:
Did a black woman turn you down?
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Great post Abagond.
“They exist to be support systems, whether for men of all colors or women of every color but black.”
Very true.
Hello jas0nburns. Thx for the link. Those black nerds are creating some fantastic art. Can’t wait to check out a few of the books on the list
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Okay,
Here is the problem anyone reading this post is all ready sympathetic to the difficulties that black women face.
It neither illuminates or enlightens.
The difficulties that black women face need warmth, wit and a good dose of humor to deal with.
This offers none . . .
And to those who trade in sterotype’s consider the source and the source is usually pretty pathetic
Take care and be well
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I’ve never got the notion that white men ‘wanted’ black women, except for nefarious purposes. Most of the white males I come into conact with are ‘co-workers’, and random white men at malls, walking in the streets and at other places of business. I am the only black woman in my building, and cross paths with my white male neighbors who simply walk past me to the mailbox or their places of residence. I have had some relatively unpleasant experiences with white men, one in particular, which happened when I was about thirteen and on my way to school:
white male construction worker: hi, your cute. what’s your name?
Me: my name is ………y
white male construction worker: wow, I saw a movie where a ni– er who looked just like you, had the same name. Your’e pretty just like her.
Me: (confused) what did you say?
wmc: you are a pretty n—er.
I was in shiock, but I was so young, I did’nt have an intelligent response, and simply walked away.
Or, I got into a verbal sparring with a white male college class mate, who, once he determined that he was loosing th3e argument, told me that “well, whatever, I think it’s interesting how there is this huge conflict between black men and black women. That must be stressful”. I never forgo that one either.
I felt pretty devalued. I’ve had less racially horrific experiences, when interacting with white males, that is, basically they tend to be benign. Most times, I seem to be getting insulted by these random white male media personalities and politicians in the news.
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Whether you have a black man or not, we all know that there is at least some truth to what jay from philly said
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Damn Jay from Philly! Did you have bad luck with black women because they wouldn’t date you? Is it because you have a hard time get alone with black folks because of your short temper and abusive attitude? Maybe, just maybe, you have low self-esteem and the only way you can lift it up is tear down black people and make whites look close to being angels. Seriously Jay, get some help. You won’t find any in the internet let alone this blog especially if you purposely ignore the topic to vent your rage.
Ashanti, I don’t know if you truly are a black woman any more if we truly know if Jay is a white man. Let’s assume that you are. In any case what both of you said is based on negative emotions likely due to a traumatized past of some sort. Ashanti, if you are a black female, you must do research, and not assume that black men are just…traitors that hate black women. You also can not lump all or most black men into that category just like we can’t lump all or most black women into certain demeaning categories even though there are some that do. All this negativity is not worth a damn if it continues to hurt you inside.
Kara, I’ll reserve my comments for you later.
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Which commenter writes and sounds like Lara….could it be – nah. Surely she cant be that desperate to have come back to where she was not wanted.
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We can’t talk about the widely evidenced notion of the “angry black woman” and not talk about the root cause of this general perception.
Just as all racial conversations with the black male must begin with his struggle to be free of “white supremacy,” all conversations with the “angry black woman” must start with her enduring sexual loyalty to the black man (her sexual “racism”) in the face of the black man’s complete sexual disloyalty (his radical sexual autonomy).
This incredible schism, which has no comparison, is the root cause of the black collective’s self-annihilation.
Racially-inspired sexual loyalty met with racially-blind radical sexual autonomy makes for a highly toxic outcome.
In short, the “angry black woman” is the result of the “sexually disloyal black male.”
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@Brothawolf
If you’re not familiar with JayFromPhilly, all you need to know is that he is an opportunistic white man who plays the “sympathetic listening ear” for angry black women. Black women who are part of a somewhat recent and self-destructive (but minuscule) movement. He’s often found on their blogs, agreeing with their nonsense in order to get in their pants, knowing darn well that despite their movement being at a stand still, it’s an easy source of tail. He’s that type of sleazy guy who tries to “be there” for a vulnerable woman after he just witnessed the terrible break up she had with her boyfriend.
@ Thordaddy
Provide any sort of empirical evidence (actual facts, that aren’t a vague “look around you” type response) that back up your overly wordy post. Otherwise, it’s just another example of how disingenuous whites drum up theories that are in reality, nothing more than simple well-wishing.
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@ Franklin
Don’t you love it when whites sound off on black issues?
As if they know anything worth a damn.
All they seem to do is repeat jargon.
Nonsensical jargon as best.
@ Brothawolf
Just ignore all the white noise.
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Abagond:
Whites and others attack blackwomen because they’re “The Rock.” Our race is female-driven, not male-driven. Blackmen are not hated on in the same way, because, they can be exploited for financial gain by whitemen and sexual pleasure by whitewomen. This is why whites make a big fuss about black male actors, athletes, rappers, thugs, etc. These groups of blackmen are useful idiots. Whitewashed blackmen are the whiteman’s bitch. I know it, you know it, and they know it too. Blackwomen are killed, raped, beaten, robbed, and disrespected by blackmen and whitemen alike in this country and abroad. All because whitewomen wanna hop in bed with a so-called mandingo, blackwomen and their humanity have to be destroyed in order to make it possible for whitewomen to get what they want. It seems too simplistic, but it’s not. Whitewomen are a footnote in history. All that we know about womanhood, motherhood, and female sexuality came from african women, asian women, and native-american women. Again, i don’t care if whitewomen hate me, the facts are the facts. They need to come clean on this issue, because, they’re hands are just as dirty as those of whitemen and other non-black women. Sistas, don’t waste time arguing over bs, deal with the real issue…Control & Exploitation of Blackwomen!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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jay from philly you hit the nail right smack on the head. As a black woman i feel much more safer and protect in the presence of white men than black men.
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thordaddy:
I agree with all that was said. Disloyalty on the part of blackmen is the core issue. Racism and sexism are equally important, but, betrayal is the problem that cuts deep within the black female. If blackmen loved blackwomen as god intended, the other problems that we face as a race wouldn’t seem so daunting. Honestly, most blackmen on this planet have no idea how much they hurt blackwomen. We don’t love ourselves as blackmen, therefore, we don’t love blackwomen…Our Reflection! I talk about this issue a lot, because, it needs to talked about openly and honestly. I don’t care if self-hating blackmen hate me, i’m gonna tell the truth about them come what may. Blackwomen will never see the greatness in themselves as long as we have a bunch of “Lost” black males in our race…Bottomline! Sistas know they’re a masterpiece, but, they don’t feel it and think it because of blackmen like Kobe Bryant in the sports world and Terrence Howard in hollywood. They have the most beautiful women on the planet, and don’t want them, because they wanna be liked by those outside of their race. In other words, a business decision. They’ve reduced their black sisters down to the level of a commodity, stock, monies, etc. It’s sick to the core when you break it down mentally, Sick! Thordaddy, great post brotha…Peace!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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why is it that black folks get mad at white people (particularly white males) when they tell it like it is about the sad state of the black community? i mean i read a lot of jay from philly’s post and he doesn’t come across as a racist envious white man at all(as so many of you have accused him of). Funny that white men get slapped with those insults whenever they challenge black men and call them out on their mistreatment of black women. Jay i commend you for acknowledging the bullshit that’s going on in the black community and not being a liberal white dude who love to pacify and make excuses for damaged black folks (many whom are racist themselves and hate white men). Black men and their sista soldiers on this site hate you because you are telling the truth. Plain and simple.
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We can’t talk about the widely evidenced notion of the “angry black woman” and not talk about the root cause of this general perception.
Please don’t talk about that which you and your ilk do not have a clue about!
Just as all racial conversations with the black male must begin with his struggle to be free of “white supremacy,” all conversations with the “angry black woman” must start with her enduring sexual loyalty to the black man (her sexual “racism”) in the face of the black man’s complete sexual disloyalty (his radical sexual autonomy).
Ohh, another guy turned down by a black woman!
This incredible schism, which has no comparison, is the root cause of the black collective’s self-annihilation.
I thought it was a poor diet!
In short, the “angry black woman” is the result of the “sexually disloyal black male.”
Could you not have said that to start?
He’s often found on their blogs, agreeing with their nonsense in order to get in their pants, knowing darn well that despite their movement being at a stand still, it’s an easy source of tail. He’s that type of sleazy guy who tries to “be there” for a vulnerable woman after he just witnessed the terrible break up she had with her boyfriend.
That’s a new way of getting a leg-over! It illustrate just how morally bankrupt fools like Jay are. If what you are saying is correct, I feel sorry for his victims.
Don’t you love it when whites sound off on black issues?
I for one find it fascinating and hilarious at the same time. Do they honestly think that they will be taken seriously by most black people?
jay from philly you hit the nail right smack on the head. As a black woman i feel much more safer and protect in the presence of white men than black men.
Maybe you and Jay can hook up and commiserate over the evil black man. Who knows? One of youse might get lucky!
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Many here disagree with “Jay From Philly.” His statement is very broad. It would only fit a Black woman, in a Black community, who interacts only with Black people, with no/minimal contact with another race to relate to his statement. If her sole contact is Black people, then her experiences whether happy or painful will be with Black people.
Luckily, I for one, have NOT received an STD/have been raped/roobbed or violently attacked by ANY man. I have been grabbed, hit, touched inappropriately by males who happen to be Black, because I was in an area mainly of Black people.
If I were to get raped/robbed/attacked by someone who is NOT Black, people would automatically slur the attacker, “That White so and so, White people are monsters” or “That filthy Hispanic, they’re oversexed pervs.” Look at the media…that crazed, White woman who threw acid in her OWN face and claimed a Black woman did it…of course the focus wasn’t, “Hey, some mean lady threw acid” it became “Some Black woman threw acid.” Its easy to point out the difference, race, and then run with it.
Personally, I’m more concerned with my treatment as a WOMAN. As for being a Black woman, I do not enjoy all this unpleasant dirty laundry being aired about the Black race. I do not see an videos of Whites, Latinos, or Asians (including East indians) complaining about their men/women and why they would not date them and such.
I don’t go preaching about Black love, Black pride, and how White men want us and White women want to look like us (show me a White woman who darken her skin to my complexion, broadened her nose and kinked her hair…there are ways to do it, yet they haven’t).
The problem is some got a little pride and the ran with it and now that pride, Eurocentrism, is a global standard (not for the entire world, I may add, but everything we do as non-Whites is automatically compared to Whites. If Black women wear a weave – which is INDIAN hair, White people get credit for it, as if they have a monopoly on straight hair).
This dirty laundry/pity party amoungst Black men and women has got to end at some point. As for addressing White people, if you want to round them up and lynch them, make them shine your shoes…then I don’t know what reaction you will expect to get besides complaining about them. I have no solution, and the one I stated would be the extreme. Could you imagine if Black people took on the attitude of this nation’s “fore fathers”? The KKK would sh!t themselves.
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Jay From Philly must be enjoying all this attention.
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Ummm…. are you single? Not that it would be a problem if you aren’t…….
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If you’re not familiar with JayFromPhilly, all you need to know is that he is an opportunistic white man who plays the “sympathetic listening ear” for angry black women. Black women who are part of a somewhat recent and self-destructive (but minuscule) movement. He’s often found on their blogs, agreeing with their nonsense in order to get in their pants, knowing darn well that despite their movement being at a stand still, it’s an easy source of tail. He’s that type of sleazy guy who tries to “be there” for a vulnerable woman after he just witnessed the terrible break up she had with her boyfriend.
Ahhhhhh…I see.
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There seems to be two black women, if that’s who they truly are, who supports Jay (Ashante and Janet), or they could be his puppet trolls. I think I’ll have to conclude the latter.
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@Satanforce, your force is non-existent to me cause I’m an Atheist, lol.
Your prior link:
Like I said, I care about my treatment as a WOMAN. There are a lot of sickos out there, and its sad what happen to the 21 year old in that said article. I myself have been in compromising situations, only BLOCKS away from my own home. I could have been raped and murdered. My family could have been frantic over me being missing while my corpse rots right up the block. And the guys in question were Black.
Remember Elizabeth Smart? Her kidnappers were White men.
Look at Jennifer Hudson’s family that was murdered by her sister’s ex, a Black man.
Josef Fritzl – a White man, raped his OWN daughter for decades.
Oh, and go to http://www.familywatchdog.us/, great place to look up sex offenders! Here in NYC, you will see a lot of “dots” in Hispanic neighborhoods…
I can’t speak on racism, I haven’t been blatantly called the “n-word” to my face (and I hate when people say “nigga,” I don’t care what color you are, cause my 100% Black behind does not). I have never been the “token black girl,” (only at certain castings or events, my friends are Black and Afro-Latin). I never cried about being dark-skin. I have been with Black men of all complexions, heights, weights, Asian men (many different countries,too many to list), Latin men, White and Persian…does that count as Indian? I’m no lesbian, but if any Black or Asian women wanted me…nuff said.
So, I will not jump and say its a Black man or a White man causing any problems in my life, unless I want to rant about my father, a Black man, slinging his crotch around instead of focusing on his now ex-wife – my Black mother, being a single mom isn’t what she left the West Indies for.
And I will not hold hands and sing, “Kumbayah” with a White woman. I won’t jump and say a White woman on my crappy income or humble background has a better life, but if you dress both of us up and let us pretend we come from “old money,” she might get a leg over me in competition. MIGHT, cause sometimes people prefer chocolate over vanilla, sorry, I had to make a food reference, but its about preference.
I don’t care about what Black NBA player or actor, has a white wife. Why does that get so much attention? Why is no one asking White people why they married a Black person and calling them self-haters? Or are Black spouses just charity cases?
@ everyone:
I read the link in Angry Black Woman’s blog, about that “advice” for Blue Ivy. It was a funny article, that’s if you’re into sarcastic humor, but seriously if people think Beyonce is oozing sex 24/7, I guess they are totally ignoring pics of her when she is NOT performing. The lady is laid back and casual. Jay-Z can rap about what he USED to do all he wants, but where is he living now? The writer really put her foot in her mouth (being a White woman discussing Black issues), but she is right on one thing, Blue Ivy will be in constant spotlight and scrutiny. If Obama’s daughters screw up, the word “Black” will definitely get mentioned somewhere. Look at the Bush twins, it was TOO easy to call them “crazy/freaky White girls,” the stereotype that White girls party the most and the hardest. Race is always an issue.
Okay, I need a typing break. *Breathes*
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@My $0.02
Great comments.
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@ my $0.02 cents
Your comments/rants are very refreshing to hear. Do you think that your style of thinking in these matters is more or less common among black women in real life, than the types of views more often expressed on this blog? (WP are far more privileged and evil , less trustworthy, the cause of all misery among blacks, oppressors etc)
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@ John
Jane Elliot, a white anti-racist woman who GETS “it.”
She’s been getting it since the day after MLK Jr was assassinated!
And, she seems to have quite the knack for making some white folks uncomfortable.
“She is quoted as saying “I’ve reached a point now where I will no longer tolerate the intolerable. I’m a ball of barbed-wire and I know it.” “After 30 years of dealing with this subject of racism, I am no longer a sweet, gentle person. I want it stopped.”
Yeah .. me too.
Interesting how a white woman who’s caustic and abrasive is more trustworthy and CREDIBLE than any soft spoken, easy going black person doing the same identical work. Which in itself doesn’t suggest that whites are more “evil” – yet it does imply something quite negative about their collective psyche.
Any thoughts on that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott
Btw, was it someone here on this blog that said or suggested that whites are “the cause of all misery among blacks …” ?
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@matari
I don’t know what your criteria for “credible” is. I suppose what I would consider the most credible view of whites and racism would be whatever is the most widespread view among people who seem like normal, average, sane folks. My $0.02 comes across as a person who’s more interested in an accurate understanding of reality than in pushing an agenda (like 90% of the posts and comments on this blog) another indication if credibility. Which is not to say the agenda pushers are necessarily wrong about everything, it’s just that they focus so much on their one side of things that reality
becomes distorted and perspective is lost. You end up with this white=bad, black=good way of thinking which just isn’t reality.
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Richard Dawkins-type or Friedrich Nietzsche-type? Cause I can work with either one.
I was trolling our “friend” Jay from Philly. Trolling is fun!!!
We don’t have crazy white people ’round my parts.
YESSSS!!!!!!!
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Because we live societies where we are not judged as individuals, but as members of communities and cultures. And as members of those communities and cultures, we are judged according to stereotypes that have built up over long periods of time. Everyone stereotypes, but some people have a greater ability to stereotype, usually in relation to the amount of power they hold.
Whites in America are able to place their image as being the norm, while blacks are chastised by American society for the choices that they make.
But you probably already know that’s crap, right? Asians and whites aren’t up in arms about interracial relationships. Blacks are.
Black people, all over the world seem to be trapped between being an individual or being part of a collective. You can stay in the collective, sing kumbayah, rail against interracial, wallow in self-pity etc. Or you can be an individual, and get lumped into the black nerd/sellout category. Either way, you are not truly free to be yourself.
So what is to be done?
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i would like to cosign what $0.02 said. I’ve started to realise that maybe the US is far more race-focused than my home country, but I still think that there is a narrow viewpoint in Abagond’s race posts.
It would be interesting to read a post about black issues, without talking about white people. So, not a race post, but a piece about black society itself. Or is that impossible?
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I always think black women as women, which they are. Sure, of course I see their color but I refuse to categorize them by any pre conditioned category. Same goes with black men, or any other for that matter. That is intentional descion on my part. I refuse to get into the mode which states that “These people” are such and such and “Those people” so and so.
I refuse to get sucked in to the american race system, or any other race system, I refuse to value any humanbeing by his/her appearence. I also have enough experience to know that even the most outcasted of the outcasts can be something completely different than “what everybody knows”.
From the the cut troaths of african city slums ot the dirtiest and most foul outlaw bikers I have met, some of them have been the most honest, decent and genuine people I have ever met. Some of the most religious, cleanest, “fine” people I have met have been the biggest thieves, liars, and scumbags I have ever met in my life. You never can tell by the appearance alone.
Race is a social construction and the base for the racism. I refuse to follow those. That is my personal choice. I have been talked down, called names, all sorts of thing because of this, but that is my choice. I just don’t give a poop what anybody else says.
It may be imaginary, fantasy, fairy tale poop, but it is the way I live and want to live. It is my way to oppose and fight against the racism everyday and every hour of my life.
So, satanforce, I don’t care what the society, community, or anybody for that matter thinks about me, how they perceive me, what they say about me. I live my life the way I want, not they way somebody else wants or what way somebody says I should be living. Nobody, and I mean nobody, tells me how to live, think or say.
I have to work for it everyday. I have to be alert and aware. It is so easy to fall into the social conventions of our societies. It would be so easy to fall into the trap of racism. And I don’t mean the KKK brand of it, but the subtle cultural way which is all over the place, which is trying to influence everyday via media and such. The only way to avoid it, is to be aware of it. And that takes some effort everyday, every hour.
So, how to write about the black women? If I had to, I would write about them as I would write about any women. No as a bunch of items or a group of beings, but as individual women, with their history, experiences, backrounds and lives, what ever they migh be.
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@brothawolf
There seems to be two black women, if that’s who they truly are, who supports Jay (Ashante and Janet), or they could be his puppet trolls. I think I’ll have to conclude the latter.
Just reading through and catching up. I too was wondering about these commenters, particularly Janet who, if I am not mistaken, made a very similar observation and damn near same assertion about not feeling safe being around BM on another blog too.
What is distressing is of course, is that anyone, whether real or imagined, should feel ‘threatened’ by BM and that it tarnishes their viewpoint/opinion of BM as a whole. I’m not sure, but I thought at least one of these ladies was a BW??? in which case, whoever she ends up with as a partner and if that union should bring forth children, I am more bothered about how her fear would manifiest and project itself on to any male child.
We all know there is some truth to the fact that there are certain people that we need to be wary of in every part of society however, it does seem like there is no exaggeration when you guys stateside refer to the media’s interpretation of BP.
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@janet
why is it that black folks get mad at white people (particularly white males) when they tell it like it is about the sad state of the black community?
We all know there are imperfections in black communiities but what is galling, is when someone who cannot/will relate to the said issues and the root causes of the issues then has the temerity to talk from a seemingly all knowing viewpoint. In Jay’s case I find this particularly odd considering the fact that has frequently alluded to the fact that he ‘knows people who know people’ if you get my drift and is therefore, albeit in an ‘accessory’ capacity, is part of the very problem that he is trying to blame on BM.
i mean i read a lot of jay from philly’s post and he doesn’t come across as a racist envious white man at all (as so many of you have accused him of).
If you take that one post at face value then perhaps you could come to that conclusion but, to build up more of a perspective then you would need to read posts on other blogs I guess. Not saying it would change your mind – maybe you will still agree with him. Another commenter talked about the fact that he frequents blogs by BW for BW in the hope of ‘scoring’ with said BW – I wasnt aware of this when I made my earlier comments. My perception is down to having been in cyber dialogue with Jay and instinctively I felt that his narrow minded diatribes towards BM were less about his frustration for BW but more about his own personal motivations towards said women.
Funny that white men get slapped with those insults whenever they challenge black men and call them out on their mistreatment of black women.
Because these kind of dangerous comments dont apply to ALL black men. You can see that even in the relatively small confines of this blog where people like brothawolf and Tyrone continually promote and speak respectfully about BW.
Black men and their sista soldiers on this site hate you because you are telling the truth. Plain and simple.
Hate is such an emotive word and suggests a connection with someone far stronger than is realistic for people who post on a communal blog such as this.
But, if as you say Jay is telling the truth, I am guessing that you see this in your own locality/community? What is being done/What should be done to address this? Why do you think it has happened/is happining?
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@anyone:
I want to challenge some people’s idea of what “black communities” are. What follows is based on what I’ve seen in different parts of the country. There are many “black communities” with very little crime. (ALL communities have some crime). There are affluent “black communities” that have very, very expensive homes with manicured lawns. There are golf courses and upscale businesses. (Gasp)! And many people who live in them are educated and have great kids who go to nice schools. I realize that some “black communities” are less than desirable, but not all are. Please keep that in mind when you watch the news, surf the internet, read a newspaper or listen to that scared, know-it-all in the breakroom.
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@John:
“I suppose what I would consider the most credible view of whites
and racism would be whatever is the most widespread view among people who seem like normal, average, sane folks. My $0.02 comes across as a person who’s more interested in an accurate understanding of reality than in pushing an agenda (like 90% of the posts and comments on this blog) another indication if credibility. Which is not to say the agenda pushers are necessarily wrong about everything, it’s just that they focus so much on their one side of things that reality.”
—
When people comment on their feelings and experiences, they may seem frustrated and angry. They may also use humor, snarkiness, sarcasm, etc. while expressing themselves. It doesn’t mean they are pushing an agenda, are not average, normal, credible, sane, or distorting reality. Every person has his/her own reality just as you do. Just a thought.
BTW, there are blogs out there with black commentators who have views that are quite different from some expressed here.
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“When people comment on their feelings and experiences, they may seem frustrated and angry. They may also use humor, snarkiness, sarcasm, etc. while expressing themselves. It doesn’t mean they are pushing an agenda, are not average, normal, credible, sane, or distorting reality.”
Nor was I Implying that it’s the tone of the comments that I have a problem with. As I said, it’s the one sided content of the arguments made. That’s what makes them less credible. Your comment for example, tried to shift the focus to a tone argument that wasn’t made, it’s as if you don’t know how to react to a white person who isn’t sticking to the derailing for dummies script, so you just imagine he is.
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Nom de plume said:
@anyone:
” I want to challenge some people’s idea of what “black communities” are. ”
Yes, what are they?
And if you think you have an answer, how did you get to that answer?
My Answer?
The media.
America likes to portray a very clear view of its residents based on race. Accept it, people.
That’s why you will NEVER hear about a wealthy black couple who’s child has just entered an Ivy league school.
You will, on the other hand, hear about a downtrodden, drug-ridden, poverty-stricken black single woman who sold her baby for drugs.
@ John
You mentioned credibility.
Let’s be clear, you cannot have ANY discussion about America and not bring up race in some fashion.
Whites seem to be in pain when blacks have a discussion about our issues in this country.
It’s as if a knee-jerk reaction has exploded in your bellies.
We, as people of colour, discuss racism in America because it is the very foundation of our existence, happiness and our ability to thrive.
No exaggeration here, just truth.
But as we’ve stated before many, many times, whites hate the truth. Especially when it concerns them.
John, when America is:
Free
Fair
Unprejudiced
Equal
All conversations of this manner will come to a crashing halt.
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@John:
I wasn’t trying to shift the focus to a tone argument when I used the words “snarkiness,” “sarcasm” and “humor.” Those were MY words that I chose to inject. I see now that my use of them caused you and perhaps others to misunderstand the point I was making. I meant to draw attention to your use of the words, “sane,” “normal,” “credible,” “agenda” and “reality.” Your statement seemed to imply that these words cannot be applied to 90% of the commentators and posts on this blog. That’s what I was responding to.
As far as “one sided arguments” are concerned, I’m glad you posted your comment. That’s what I like about this blog and others like it. It just so happens that many here agree on similar things, but as you have shown, others do not or do not entirely. I’m not imagining anything.
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“You mentioned credibility.
Let’s be clear, you cannot have ANY discussion about America and not bring up race in some fashion.”
I don’t remember implying or stating anything to the contrary. I mean, “discussing race” is pretty broad. I personally find immense….IMMENSE value in the way someone like Henry Louis Gates discusses race in the context of American history, He is someone who takes an unbiased and honest view of race and history without an agenda. I find that stands in stark contrast to the general focus of things here. but then as I’ve been informed by brothawolf and several others, as a white guy my opinion is not
valued here. (further evidence that this place has gone off the deep end) let me put it another way, race is a very important and central issue for everyone. This blog is doing everyone especially black Americans a disservice by making it into a sideshow.
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like I said it’s just refreshing to hear from someone like my $0.02 because while she recognizes that white privilege and racism exist she isn’t focused like a lazer on demonizing/discrediting/silencing whites. My guess is thats because she probably has healthy self esteem and a life, and isn’t trying to exact some personal vendetta like many others. It’s too bad she’s the exception to the rule around here.
here.
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i am not a sock puppet of jay from philly. i see bm will hurry up and change the subject when you talk about their low down ways of talking ish about their own race to their enemies. who does that? only a race of males that can be turned into somebody else’s slave. black mens dna is screwed up. they need to genetic engineering to breed that bitch gene out of them.
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@ John:
For many centuries, up to the present time, your opinion and the opinion of other whites were the only ones that mattered.
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@ John
Whites don’t need blacks to demonize / discredit them.
They do a mighty fine job of that themselves.
We just speak the truth.
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@ truthbetold
I know, and like I said the discussion here is about that vendetta. Payback or whatever. it’s a shame.
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@ Truthbetold
he, john, CAN’T GET IT.
“it’s a shame.”
“..or whatever.”
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@matari
Most black people don’t even pay attention to people like you. You’re a crazy militant who does more to hurt anti-racism than help it. you’re the reason intelligent, sane black people don’t come to sites like this. You think you speak for everyone with brown skin but in reality your more of a joke to other blacks than you are to white people like me.
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@ Matari
Perhaps you are right.
I’ll end the discussion now.
First with Jay from philly, then Lara, now John.
Thanks
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I know it must be frustrating for you guys that you can’t get white people to “get” that we are the scum of the earth. I mean geez, you’d think we would just say ” yeah you’re right, we totally suck” but we just won’t. That’s so weird right? I mean it just defies explanation. Oh wait I get it now, the proof that white people are the most terrible awful things on the planet is that we won’t admit we are! Just like those heretics and witches in medeival times! Let’s burn em all!
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@ John:
Whoa, aren’t you being rich. Speaking for most black people, are you?
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I don’t consider any human being scum of the earth. As with any blog, including ones I visit that appear to be mostly white, the discussions are not always pretty. When I visit those blogs things are often discussed in a ways I don’t like, especially as they pertain to people of color. Many things said here are lame compared to things I’ve read on those blogs. Of course, blogs are not the same as PBS specials, where journalistic stardards apply, or where corporations are concerned about being sued if the program host happens to say the wrong thing.
I like Henry Louis Gates, too. I think he is doing a geneology series some time in March. One of the people he’s profiling is Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN. I’m looking forward to it.
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Wait so a statement is made that Matari doesn’t speak for everybody with brown skin and in the very same sentence one can find these words “in reality your more of a joke to other blacks..”. *Yikes! Hypocrite alert!*
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Aaah Leigh beat me to it lol.
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@Gen:
Great minds think alike. 😀
John says
It’s amusing how John or shall I say jas0nburns (I clicked on your gravatar) calls matari a crazy militant. You continue to interject your own perspective out of turn and try to explain everything. It gets old really fast.
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@Leigh:
One and the same? Wow.
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@Nom De Plume:
Yup. Please place your cursor over his gravatar and you’ll see what I’m referring to. It’s him.
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So what is to be done?
Say what I say but in Jamaican. Firstly tell them about their bumbo clot. If they don’t get your drift, tell them what a ras clot ole they are! If they don’t understand that, tell them to FO. As a Black Canadian, I tell them to fornicate themselves with a wire brush for example. If they don’t understand that, I tell them to FO. Coincidently, there are numerous ways to do that without actually uttering those words if it offends your sensibilities,FO that is.
The only way to avoid it, is to be aware of it. And that takes some effort everyday, every hour.
Exactly!
I am more bothered about how her fear would manifiest and project itself on to any male child.
That is exactly what I think when I read these type of statements. How will she treat her sons? But of course they will not be like those ‘evil black men’!
Hate is such an emotive word and suggests a connection with someone far stronger than is realistic for people who post on a communal blog such as this.
Stop making sense Demerera! I don’t understand why people think the responding poster is ‘hateful and angry’? The only emotional response I get from some of these folks is hilarity. Hopefully most others do also.
As I said, it’s the one sided content of the arguments made.
This isn’t a blog to appease the feelings or intellectual curiosity of white folk. If you wish to have a dialog with such folk, I suggest you go to TnA’s site. You can ask this fool as to why he is so full of hate and vitriol for black women(that is if you can stop laughing). Then there is storm-front. Why not confront them on their virulent racism and proffered modes of eugenics? Should that not float you penchant for discussion, there is always chimp.com, which caters to those with baser ways of expressing themselves. Of course there are probably a plethora of kerchief head sites extolling the virtues of white behind kissing. Unfortunately ‘John’, this isn’t one of them. Heaven forfend a bunch of unruly black folk getting together on a blog to dialog about racism and how it affects them! If you want ‘input from kerchief heads go to; ilovekissingwhitebehind.com, or wherearethewhitefolkat.org, finally; ifyoucan’tbeatthemjointhem.net. You will probably find those elucidating and more to your liking!
Most black people don’t even pay attention to people like you.
Uncle Thomases and Thomasinas’ don’t count!
You’re a crazy militant who does more to hurt anti-racism than help it.
Go to ilovekissingwhitebehind.com if you want to dialog with kerchief heads, whats wrong with you? Buffoonery at it most dense!
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I know it must be frustrating for you guys that you can’t get white people to “get” that we are the scum of the earth. I mean geez, you’d think we would just say ” yeah you’re right, we totally suck” but we just won’t.
Aside from your first seemingly genuine comment on this particular thread, your posts thereafter have constantly echoed and asserted what you perceive to be hurtful and non constructive comments towards all WP. If you think the comments are untrue or dont apply to you, demonstrate/prove otherwise – simple. Instead, you keep carrying this baggage around with you and instead of using it to inform your writing, it clouds your words and your comments become less about the question at hand and more about your ‘hurt feelings’ as a white commenter. You can see why people would tire of this surely?
Rther petulantly, you keep referring to the fact that your opinion as a WM is not taken on board yet slowly you keep trying to undermine and de-value the opinions and comments of commenters on here. Then you mention ‘derailing for dummies’ apparently oblivious to the fact that this is exactly what you are doing.
You talk about people on here with an ‘agenda’ – at least they are honest about things John or should I say Jas0nburns – whats your motivation for coming on here?
…..and isn’t trying to exact some personal vendetta like many others…
Ah. This comment in itself is quite telling and though written in reference to another commenter it could prove to be a revalation as it possibly belies your own agenda for commenting.
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@Leigh:
Good catch!
@jason:
Have you been drinking? Next time turn the hovering tool off!
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@Herneith:
Thanks, girl. ‘Twas nothing. 😉
Busted! lol! 😀
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Haha, well I guess I’ll get banned for that. Thats what i get for trolling 🙂 I’m sure it’s for the best. Total waste of time being on here.
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back on topic, i would like to say thanks to tyrone for telling the truth. he is the only one dealing with the topic. he is right on point about how bw feel: BETRAYED !! thanks tyrone for being one of the very few real bm.
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@Nom De Plume, I agree with you about the 2 types of black women the media loves. But, to be fair, these black women don’t have to do the interviews crying about not having a man in their lives. I keep seeing these pathetic programs about single black women and I am tired of them. They’re pointless and they’re just adding to the “black victimhood” motif that the media loves. Blacks are either villians or victims.
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@ Ashante
Don’t delude yourself. He’s just the only BM who subscribes to your degree of self pitying lunacy.
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@Mel:
You have a point there. The media will always try to portray black women a certain way, but why make it easy?
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Nom De Plume
Unfortunately, whenever someone mentions the black community, most likely in this society many people will associate it with poverty, crime, and drugs. Most of it is based on what they see in the news, the newspaper, and the certain corners of the internet. They never consider that there are middle and upple class black communities let alone middle and upper class blacks. If they do, they may consider them “exceptions to the rule”.
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@brothawolf:
I know. Sad, isn’t it?
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Ashanti
Okay, If you are not a puppet of Jay’s then I take back what I said about you. However, you are making it seem as if black men are natural born degenerates with no moral compass.
Now, I will not argue that there are some black men that are conditioned to hate themselves and their people, including sistas. However, this extreme discontent you have will not help you.
I’ve heard similar venting from brothas when it came to sistas. What good will all this rage have if we are constantly turning it on each other? At the same time what does it say about us if we continue to look to white people of whatever sex as the “great white hope”? This isn’t to say that white people should be automatically dismissed, but it’s saddening when we turn on each other while holding the white race up on a pedestal of rightousness and superiority.
We need to stop condemning ourselves while avoiding the reasons why things are the way they are, and that includes putting white racism into the equation whether we OR THEY like it or not.
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Leigh,
I said it before and I’ll say it again. You go, girl lol.
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It is Nom De Plume.
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@brothawolf:
re;@Leigh
Great detective work! She should consider a career in law enforcement! LOL!
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@leigh: 😀 well done
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Let me chime in here.
I see the hypocritical white men like Jay from Philly are on the board. ( I got a black wife but saw black women doing hooker transactions and etc in my neighborhood) His words “mind you”. The guy is a coward. He advocates black women “run away” while he sits in his cozy home cheating on his black wife with numerous financially insecure black mistresses.
Anyway, let me move on from that guy.
I put on my blog the Mcdonald incident with a black woman offering sexual favors to a white man for his Nuggets (purely speculating here).
INSTEAD, they ridiculed this desperate black woman. The same white male dominated law enforcement laughed at this poor woman. If it was a white woman doing sexual favors for french fries. They would have set up a damn fundraiser for her, cleaned her up, put her back on the stroll to get married. Like many, white women do. I will have to agree with most black women concerning white women.
A white woman can be a slut bucket and still managed to get married.
The reason I even bring this up. The crimes the so called “white dominated” society does is far worse than black people have ever done.
When you treat a segment of people as less than human, make laws to stop them from getting employment and etc. It is quite amazing to me you wonder why black people act violently. More specifically violently towards each other. (Which I do not understand myself, my anger would be directed at the so called white dominated society).
The so called white male dominated society
1. Collapsed the black middle class with the housing crisis. Black people were the first to be laid off. Black people have a majority of their wealth in relation to their homes. That was all gone. Nobody had sympathy for them.
2. Black women went from number 1 in employment (Asian women following close behind) to dead last in employment. You tell me what is going on?
3. The unemployment rate is stubbornly high not because of a Black President. It is due to obstruction by the so called white male dominated House of representatives.
4. They have used black people, black women to get elected into office. They say stuff like Obama is the first Food Stamp President. (Considering more whites are on food stamps). Everything is a subtle attack on black people to win elections. It has been like that for a long time.
5.So called white male law enforcement protecting black people. Law enforcement is not doing shit without “snitches and informants”. If they never had those type of people to help them “close cases”. Law enforcement wouldn’t be able to do much. There are various ways to get around Law Enforcement.
I have a B.S Degree in Criminology. If you keep your mouth shut, most of the time you can get out of a jam. Oh yeah, don’t let them search your car. These are 2 major rules you should live by. Oh yeah, watch the people you hang out with.
Let me address the original post. Apparently that might be directed at me.
( I half read the list)
It is quite a funny list. Facts are Facts about BWE women. You can’t argue with numbers and research.
I guess it is okay to attack the messenger. LOL
This country is based on race. Race is everything in this country. The BWE Black women are pathetic and sad. They need validation from white men to feel like “someone”. Yet, they continually leave you in the guest room with your panties down.
Show some damn god damn self respect yourselves!
Good day to everyone.
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it’s saddening when we turn on each other while holding the white race up on a pedestal of rightousness and superiority
I agree with this of course but let me ask you: DID YOU SAY THIS TO THE BM THAT WERE “VENTING” ABOUT BW?? of course you didnt.
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Ashante,
I did. In fact I wrote about it in my blog.
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Ashante,
Also forgive me for misspelling your name in my other response.
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This country is based on race. Race is everything in this country. The BWE Black women are pathetic and sad. They need validation from white men to feel like “someone”.
you are insane! the majority of bw dont give a damn about white men!! it is BM that need validation from WHITE WOMEN to feel like “someone”!! thats why the media keeps clowning you with white women jokes and creating characters like the fake herman cain person to show the world that you’re always lusting after white women. that is hilarious and flattering to white men!! they love it !!you cant even come CLOSE to charging bw with needing wm to validate us!!
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@ Ashante
The people who first “turned on someone” were a few nutty BW who were cheerleading for the derailing and dishonest white male posters…
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Also forgive me for misspelling your name in my other response
thats okay brothawolf. do you mind provinding the web address of your blog? thanks.
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Abagond,
Thanks for educating everyone on America’s BW HATE CULTURE that, from day one, has sought to BRAINWASH everyone into believing that BW aren’t HUMAN/REAL WOMEN and constantly attack BW’s humanity, dignity, and femininity .
American BW HATE CULTURE has BRAINWASHED ALL American men to degrade/demean/disrespect BW and has BRAINWASHED ALL American NON-BW to believe they’re “better than BW because they’re NOT Black”.
Unfortunately, MOST Americans have CHOSEN to go along with American BW HATE CULTURE’s BRAINWASHING but CERTAIN PRO-BW Americans have CHOSEN to REJECT BW HATE and its lies.
Despite the lies, myths, and stereotypes perpetrated by American BW HATE CULTURE/BW HATERS, the FACT is that BW are HUMAN/REAL WOMEN (with REAL FEELINGS) and have the RIGHT TO TAKE OFFENSE AT/DEFEND OURSELVES AGAINST BW HATE/HATERS.
To their credit, BW have demonstrated how remarkable they truly are by overcoming the many obstacles placed in their way by American BW HATE CULTURE/BW HATERS and achieving success at every level of American society/ while proving they’re beautiful, intelligent, caring, good women.
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@ Leigh
Thank you. Who knew it would be that simple!
John/Jason is banned for having a sock puppet – almost always a sign of commenting in bad faith. He can go back to reading Henry Louis “Africans Traded Slaves Too” Gates and get his daily dose of “balanced” history.
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Ashante,
Click on my name in green or go to: http://brothawolf.wordpress.com.
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Queens,
I was with you until you, for some reason, veered off into the condemnation of black women empowerment. Not all black women empowering themselves go to the white man.
Queens and Ashante,
The bottom line is that we need to stop attacking each other’s gender. We all, black men and black women, need some form of empowerment and you can’t get it from throwing each other and ourselves into the hungry lions. Come on, ya’ll. Seriously.
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What a sad turn this thread has taken. *SMDH*
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At least two good things happened today!
Thank you, Leigh.
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Tyrone says,
Disloyalty on the part of blackmen is the core issue. Racism and sexism are equally important, but, betrayal is the problem that cuts deep within the black female. If blackmen loved blackwomen as god intended, the other problems that we face as a race wouldn’t seem so daunting. Honestly, most blackmen on this planet have no idea how much they hurt blackwomen. We don’t love ourselves as blackmen, therefore, we don’t love blackwomen…Our Reflection! I talk about this issue a lot, because, it needs to talked about openly and honestly. I don’t care if self-hating blackmen hate me, i’m gonna tell the truth about them come what may. Blackwomen will never see the greatness in themselves as long as we have a bunch of “Lost” black males in our race…Bottomline! Sistas know they’re a masterpiece, but, they don’t feel it and think it because of blackmen like Kobe Bryant in the sports world and Terrence Howard in hollywood. They have the most beautiful women on the planet, and don’t want them, because they wanna be liked by those outside of their race. In other words, a business decision. They’ve reduced their black sisters down to the level of a commodity, stock, monies, etc. It’s sick to the core when you break it down mentally, Sick!
laromana says,
Thanks for your excellent PRO-BW BM comments and for having the courage and willingness to challenge ALL BM to DEFEND BW’S humanity, dignity, and femininty from ALL BW HATERS. I believe that when ALL BM join together to challenge/condemn/destroy America’s BW HATE CULTURE, BW will cease to be the MOST DISRECPECTED women on the planet.
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@ John/Jason
I know you cannot respond, but just let me say this:
1. I never ever said I represent blacks or anyone else but myself. Blacks do not have a hive mind where that would even be possible. Angela Davis is black, for example, but so is Clarence Thomas.
2. I am not writing this for white people. I am not trying to persuade them of anything. If I were I would carefully watch my tone and balance and wording and all that. For one thing, I would never use the word “racist”. But I know I am no good at that stuff, even in daily life, so screw it. If Chescaleigh is called a racist, with all her wit and charm and humour and experience with white people, there is no way in the world I can avoid being called that too – and therefore be dismissed by most white people.
3. Screw balance. Night and day Americans are told that white is right and black is bad. There is no way I am going to add to that, not if I can help it. ALSO, if you notice, history and power are extremely imbalanced. If whites want 99% of the power, then they have to man the fuck up and accept 99% of blame. THAT is balance, not what Henry Louis Gates talks.
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@ Abagond
Is that the same Henry “Skip the Truth” Gates who excused America for slavery? Strangely enough after he discovered that he was 54% white?
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@ leigh
Thank you…
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my goodness ashante, is your view really so skewed that you believe white women have it so good with white men. Have you not seen the scores of white women housed at the battered women’s shelters? Take a quick trip through any BDSM personals site to see the incredible amount of white men who are looking for women to be consensually beaten, tied up, abused, objectified and humiliated, and then look at the incredible amount of women who are willing to be their partners (sexual deviance is an interest of mine, so I could gladly provide you some links).
Make no mistake, ashante, there are men, of all colors, who look down on you for being a woman. The black men may talk badly about you, but so do the white men. Maybe not always to your face, but there are plenty of white men who wish to be with you because they objectify you, not only for being a woman, but for being a black woman.
I have often thought that white women and black men in America where on a somewhat equal but different footing. The black men will never have to deal with the sexism, but the white women will never have to deal with the racism. Which is worse will always depend on a subjective perspective.
The black woman will always have the worst of it, having to always deal with both. Women could possibly unite under this banner of sexism, but white men will always have the advantage of splitting the ranks. It is so easy to tear the group apart by getting the white women to blame the black women, and vice-versa. As long as there is division and in-fighting, women cannot come together to fight sexism. Any movement will take that much longer and we’ll just obtain any rights in the way that voting right’s were obtained. White women will obtain the right first, and then POC women will be left to fight on their own.
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He can go back to reading Henry Louis “Africans Traded Slaves Too” Gates and get his daily dose of “balanced” history.
Is Gates the clown who screamed, “My wife was white!”, when the cops came to arrest him? Well balanced history indeed.
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@brothawolf, Nom De Plume, sam, abagond, Matari, and Truthbetold:
All In a day’s work guys. lol! 😛
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BDSM personals site to see the incredible amount of white men who are looking for women to be consensually beaten, tied up, abused, objectified and humiliated,
so white women like being beaten, tied up and abused? i knew they had low self esteem but damn!
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Franklin
@ Ashante
Don’t delude yourself. He’s just the only BM who subscribes to your degree of self pitying lunacy.
whatever. are u a bw? i am and i am here to say he speaking the TRUTH!
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@ashante
Yes, there are a lot of people there. Not just white women, but black, Asian, Latino and others as well. In addition, there are plenty of men who wish to put themselves “under the lash” of a woman. (I do wish to point out that it’s not all about low self-esteem, too, all that is a very common factor).
What I find particularly interesting about these sites is the level of objectification coming from the men. The men who obtain the “higher” status objectify the women who are meant to be under their feet. But it doesn’t just stop there. The men who wish to be under the feet of women, still objectify those women. They may be willing to “take a beating” or be controlled by a woman, but they are still objectifying that woman as a source of sexual pleasure.
And don’t even get me started on the topic of “Race Play”.
I’m going to get really off topic if I continue, though. The point being is that I understand your frustrations with black men based upon your experiences, but don’t think for one moment that white men are not the same. In fact, you are likely to face more objectification from a white man.
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@brothawolf
As I recall, the first time Jay form Philly and his merry band of clowns came around, a very specific definition for Black Women’s Empowerment was given, ie it is the very opposite of what the phrase implies.
Again, from the first part of that post
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Wanpimao,
Could you post those links please? You got me interested.
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Satanforce,
In any case Jay from Philly is a troll with some serious issues regarding black people nonetheless. It’s past the point of knowing where he stands because in the end he’s here to whine and moan about how terrible black people are.
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Aspante said.
Normally your cries would cause me to spring into action in your defense, but as you are a black woman, I can only laugh at you and your hurt feelings. You’ll have to find some White Knight (cough Tyrone, brothawolf cough) to help you with your problems.
As I am quite sure you , like many visitors to this blog realize by now, I hate black women – even more than you hate black men
I hate the black women who used to help me cross the street when I was I child
I hate the black teachers who made sure I had something to eat when I had no money
I hate the black woman who gave me a drive home so that I wouldn’t have to walk the ten miles when the buses went on strike
I hate the black teachers who took time out to help me when I was acting up in high school
But the question is, why do you hate me? Can’t you see, we are the same!!?? Either one of us could simply look outside, and see the millions of black people in healthy relationships with each other. But no, we’d rather watch celebrities like Ochocinco and Lil’ Wayne and watch retards on Youtube venting like little bitch-made children.
We could have also gotten some actual facts from the US Census, or from people who know what they’re talking about, like the types whose names start with “Dr.” and end with “Ph.D”
For example:
http://www.empowernewsmag.com/listings.php?article=2051
And here is the talkie version, if you don’t like reading.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141267758
http://www.npr.org/v2/?i=141267758&m=141267747&t=audio
But then again we both know that both the Black Men
BitchVent and the Black Women Empowerment won’t get anywhere, We are a vocal minority, with too many obvious psychological complexes to be taken seriously by the mainstream media. That leaves us with only one option. The obvious option that both of us are too stupid, too angry, and too bitter to choose.Forgiveness.
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I’m in mid-twenties, and in my opinion have not begun to really live life. Thanks to all the dialogue on the internet, I get to hear different views of people who are miles away from me and from different walks of life.
Here’s what I found when I looked up “cat calls” on Youtube:
“Black Latino Cat-Calls: Is it a Compliment, Sexual Harassment or Verbal Rape?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJ2_mZrQxg
I’m not surprised, those groups were singled out. There was even a short film about this (and the girls interviewed were all Black, so it is an issue amongst Blacks), but I forget the link.
I, too, always thought, “I never see other races do that to their women.” But I always take into account the quality of the person, i.e. a Black day trader on Wall St. isn’t gonna grab me or whistle at me (never been approached by one), I always get the attention of the Black driver of a delivery truck…social level.
But I can’t say money and education = class, think of all those powerful execs accused of sexual harassment.
What I like about the video was the comments, because people pointed out how White and Asian men harass women, too. In the comments, people mention Japanese guys groping strangers, and Indian men being inappropriate.
***BOTTOM LINE: Its easy to say “Black men this” and “Black men that” when you have always lived amongst them, which I have. But no, its not like everyday I step outside some Black guy is going to jump out and rape me. The Black Men VS Black Women issue, its easy to…”fuel its fire” cause people can easily point out the negatives.***
And no, my life is not that perfect that, all I can complain about is guys approaching me…as a matter of fact, I could complain about Black females talking about me and they don’t know me…but that’s MOST females. I’ve had White and Latinas talk about me as well. I could say females are catty (I’ve had my negative inner dialogue when looking at other females, I confess to being catty myself), but that’s a sexist stereotype.
I have been harrased by White men; two guys who approached me in a “hip-hop homeboy” manner, like I was supposed to take the bait, like since I’m Black, I would think “acting Black” is sexy. Another was a middle aged man, typical Blue collar, with a NFL team jacket. I don’t know why his old ass approached me.
I can agree with the tilte of the video, but its VERY broad; and though the uploader gives a LOT of different dimensions of this topic to create dialouge; people will only see what they want to see. They will jump and bash Black men (and Black male commenters will bash us back). Yes, I understand there are Black women who have bad experiences with Black men. But they have not encountered EVERY SINGLE Black man. ANY men can be full of it, like I revealed earlier, I’ve tried most colors in the crayon box, lol.
Unlike the lady in the video, I haven’t traveled overseas. But like I said, I’m really learning from other people on the internet, hearing their thoughts. Besides some people are more care free with their thoughts online. On another blog post, I admitted that I told my friend I wanted White friends cause it would make me seem “cultured” or “down” (she must’ve rolled her eyes over the phone when I said that). Black people who only have White friends, claim its cause they can’t relate to other Blacks…they’re too “aggressive” or “ghetto.”
I can’t relate to “educated” Blacks, cause I find them intimidating – they are cultured and articulate, so they’ll end up being upper class. I can’t relate to “ghetto” Blacks, my mother was on welfare (and she worked for it, didn’t sit on her ass all day for a check), I didn’t get to wear “Jordans” (and I still don’t – by choice, Michael needs to give me money, he’s rich, right?).
I have two older (half-)bros in their 30’s; one from my mom’s side (Bro A), one from my dad’s (Bro B).
They are Black men. Bro A is an analyst on Wall St., and loves some Black women, has a daughter, and spoils her – but not in a bad way, she’s disciplined. He came to America around age 17, his grandparents raised him…my mom had him young, years later met her future husband – My dad- and went to America. She would send money to my Bro A, back in the West Indies. He is the only boy on both sides. Has a car, and his own place.
Bro B, is also West Indian born, but came here much earlier in age. He has many brothers on his mom’s side. He grew up in Philly, not here in NY. He did some time repeatedly in jail, but has been getting it together so far. He loves Black women as well. He just had a son (but thinks he has another son out there). Has no car, doesn’t have his own place.
Not all Black men are bad, in fact, Bro A would be what all (decent) Black women strive for. I don’t think women chase thugs, I also think they may be intimidated or not on the level of a decent man.
I’m definitely not the poster child of an “independant woman,” so I wouldn’t expect a well to do man of any race to “make me an honest woman.” But I am not part of the pack that “loves drama.” I will not put up with a jerk, thug, or psycho of ANY race.
I’m quite the introverted type, so I may type these long, thought provoking posts, but I am certainly no professional speaker. But as my name states, I DO want to give my “$0.02”
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The BWE movement will inevitably suffer of same fatal flaws that all liberationist movements suffer.
Doing wrong to “correct” a wrong will only create more wrongness.
So black women deciding that in 2012 it is high time to seriously question the benefit of staying sexually loyal to the black man ARE choosing sexual disloyalty in numbers never seen. And they are feeling the stress that comes from such a wrong-headed decision like never before.
And since disloyalty IS THE ESSENCE of radical sexual autonomy, black women seeking “empowerment” are saying they are ready to IMITATE THE BLACK MAN’S sexual disloyalty.
Further, the way the liberationist narrative is constructed – this includes the BWE movement – is that the liberationist is both “powerless” and a holder of inherent “power” that is simply being suppressed by a myriad of external forces (usually “white man”).
So in fact, for the black woman to “empower” herself she must choose sexual disloyalty.
This is the genesis of the “angry black woman.”
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Thordaddy,
I disagree.
I believe these women are thinking along the lines of
“Why should I wait around until some guy finally decides I’m worth talking to? I’m not going to wait till he’s had his fun and his prospects run out and he’s got hard times and needs a “rock” to stand by him. I’m not going to define myself by how he sees me, and how “loyal” I am while he gets to chase every White woman he sees. I’m not going to sit by and wait while he spends his time insulting and denigrating me, he has no ownership over me, and he is not entitled to me or to my identity. I am going to focus on me, and if I meet that decent someone one day (black, white, man or woman, etc.) they will see me as a person of value, but if I don’t, it will not affect my worth as a woman and as a human being.”
I feel like it’s taking back that feeling of being powerless and turning that energy into the bettering of oneself. That Black woman might not have a husband, but she’s working hard, bettering herself. She doesn’t expect men to value her like they do any other group of women (they never really have), so she has to empower herself.
It has nothing to do with “sexual disloyalty”, and I would like to see those “unprecedented numbers” you seem to have. There’s no such thing as “sexual loyalty” to ones’ race, no one’s entitled to call a Black woman disloyal because she exercises her choice to be with someone else instead of sitting around sad and lonely until someone magically decides to want her.
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Ace,
It’s a well known fact by those that care to look at these things that the American black woman IS THE MOST sexually “racist.” Meaning, the American black woman is/has been the most sexually loyal to her black man. There is obviously a long history to help explain the motivation behind this racially-motivated sexual loyalty. There was a time when the black woman could tolerate the miscegenation, rape and exploitation of the white man’s woman as part of the WAR FOR BLACK MAN’S LIBERATION.
This no longer holds sway in 2012 when the radical sexual autonomy of the black man is without question and his sexual disloyalty is no longer seen as a tolerated evil in which he could gain his “freedom.” In fact, the black woman very much senses that such explicit sexual disloyalty IS AN EGREGIOUS ABUSE of the incredible freedom enjoyed by the MODERN radical autonomous black man.
This is the REAL genesis of the “angry black woman.”
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A well-known fact? Is it really. I certainly don’t remember seeing any qualifying or quantifying data on that particular “fact”. Are we going by overall numbers, or percentage rates? Are they compared strictly to white women, or are we including other women of color as well? I, personally, would have put my money on Asian women, because of cultural constraints for 1st and 2nd generation women. However, I’ve seen no data to elaborate on this.
Do you care to share this data of your’s, thordaddy? Or is this another one of those “common sense assumptions” that’s so often bandied about in sociological discussions?
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@ thordaddy
Are you two daft? The actually interracial stats for AA men and women are literally just above you!!!!!
No fool. The “angry black woman” has had its genealogy shown at the below places
Long version
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/sapphire/
No need for pseudo-philosophical speculation, when we already have a proper philosophical position, empirical data and historical evidence to back up our claims.
And this is the claim:
That is the genesis of the “angry black woman”
This “radical autonomy” you speak of, is a myth. Everyone has some internal control, and then there are cultural and social boundaries that prevent hem from descending into perfected narcissism and savagery. And even when they do descend, they inevitably end up with a narcissistic injury or some other control mechanism takes over.
But don’t take my word for it, just read Freud’s “Civilization and its Discontents”, freely available on the Internet for download.
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Those are actually marriage stats for the AA male, (loose translation for the female), and there is no comparison to other races so it can’t really establish a link between black women and thordaddy’s assertion of them being THE MOST “sexually racist”.
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After one misunderstood response, I came to the conclusion that I am not being clear in what I’m looking for. If thordaddy wishes us to believe that
“It’s a well known fact by those that care to look at these things that the American black woman IS THE MOST sexually “racist.” ”
then he’s going to have to show his data behind such an assertion. Not only will I need stats that shows black women have a preference for black men (marriage stats could work here) but it’s going to have to show that black women believe in an innate sexual superiority of black men, less it not be racist. It will also need to be compared to the data regarding women of other races and their preference (and belief in superiority) for their own race. In addition, one study will not do. You will need many studies, as well as older studies, in order to establish that it as a “well-known” fact.
Do I believe that we’ll get to look at this data? No. I believe thordaddy will either tell me to “look it up myself”, or he’ll tell me that he doesn’t need to back up his claims (after all, it’s so “well-known”). This is common troll strategy.
I don’t believe such data even exists. However, should the evidence be there to prove me wrong, I will gladly adjust my views.
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Perhaps this is the time for Abagond to step in and tell how his investigations have shown that the American black woman IS LEAST LIKELY to date outside her race?
And satanforce, you are right. There is NO TRUE “radical autonomy” to be found here on earth. Only Hell can provide the real thing. But that does not stop individuals from trying to attain “it” any more than it stops the black man from combatting “white supremacy” which apparently doesn’t really exist either.
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Are Black women really “sexually racist”? Or is it that no one will touch them?
On one hand, we hear that White men lust after us and raped us, we are THE most beautiful women in the world. THEN there’s “The European Standard.”
Black men are shown more in the media than Black women.
Its cool for Black men to be “mandingos,”but Black women being sexual is equated with being a slut. Sexism transcends all races, its universal.
So, which is it?
As for “loyalty to the race,” that sounds like something White Supremists talk about. I understand Black Pride to better our people, and Black Love to keep us together. Now if you hear the word, “White Pride” what comes to mind?
The colonzation of our people happened. Its done. I don’t know what part of Africa my family descended from, nor can I speak any African language. All I know is English.
What is the solution to end this racism? Should the small minority gang up against the White majority? Should we pull a “Pearl Harbor”?
We are not that power hungry, and also maybe its the time we are in as well. Are we as Black people gonna explore and find some new land to live on? In 2012, most lands are already claimed. Maybe we could help Africa, do something about the land, get some farming and agriculture going. Funny that White people live in Africa, and have clout there, and they live in the south, farthest from Europe.
We are past exploration and industrialism. What else can Black people do for the planet? Its been done. All we can do is work on supporting Black communities and countries, before the White snatch it up some more…two words: “colonialism” and “gentrification,”the former has been done, the latter is happening NOW.
We have to focus on creating community programs and counseling, we can’t rely on “the Black church,” why should religion be the only option? Are Black people so uncivilized that if there were no church, we’d run amok, swinging from trees, flinging poop? Lol.Seriously now.
Speaking of church, you try to ban Gay marriage and then complain about Black men on the down low. If a straight husband can cheat with multiple women, then what do you expect of a gay or bisexual man? Its bad enough people don’t use protection, no matter what their sexuality is.
***RELATIONSHIP ADVICE TIME***:
Black women: stop sleeping with losers, stop playing “Personal Jesus,” the signs are always there, whether flashing bright or flickering dim, the signs that a man is not compatible for you is ALWAYS there. Stop playing dumb. And don’t be intimidated by someone decent, just embrace it.
Black bitches: if the man does not want you, stop calling the cops and pretending he hit you, let the Black man care for his child. Children are not f@cking pwns! Stop ruining whatever happiness he found with his new woman, if you stop being bitter you won’t be as blind to when the one for you is standing there.
Black men: stop sleeping with psycho broads, it will cost you. Being Black already makes it easier for you to get locked up. Don’t settle for bottom rung floozies, when you can have a woman that can meet or exceed your standards…and don’t be intimidated by the women who do. Man up and better yourself.
Black assholes: stop stringing good women along, let her fly. Don’t pull her back with, “I’m gonna change.” Let her find someone that ACTUALLY loves her. Stop using your kids as coupons for sex from your ex. Stop threatening not to see your kids just cause you aren’t “getting some.”
Simple advice, right?
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@ wanpimao
You mean something like this?
http://www.blackdemographics.com/
or maybe these?
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/2008/06/25/why-so-few-white-men-marry-black-women/
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Ace says,
I feel like it’s taking back that feeling of being powerless and turning that energy into the bettering of oneself. That Black woman might not have a husband, but she’s working hard, bettering herself. She doesn’t expect men to value her like they do any other group of women (they never really have), so she has to empower herself.
It has nothing to do with “sexual disloyalty”, and I would like to see those “unprecedented numbers” you seem to have. There’s no such thing as “sexual loyalty” to ones’ race, no one’s entitled to call a Black woman disloyal because she exercises her choice to be with someone else instead of sitting around sad and lonely until someone magically decides to want her.
laromana says,
Ace,
I strongly agree with your comments.
BW have the RIGHT to love/date/marry WHOMEVER THEY PLEASE and NO ONE has a right to tell BW how to live OUR lives.
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My 0.02 says,
“As for “loyalty to the race,” that sounds like something White Supremists talk about.”
and then laromana says,
“I strongly agree with your comments.
BW have the RIGHT to love/date/marry WHOMEVER THEY PLEASE and NO ONE has a right to tell BW how to live OUR lives.”
Ladies, understand where your FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS will take you.
Radical autonomy (disloyalty to ALL) equals “self-annihilation” (the annihilation of the self).
You both are so “right” that you have the “right” to have sexual relations with whomever you please. Just as you have the “right” to kill any of your children in utero.
That’s BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to self-annihilate.
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WHAT IS CRAZY is that it’s a right that you will vigorously fight for.
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@thordaddy,
As far as I can see, laromana and ace are saying that they dont discriminate – they will be with someone who makes them happy whatever guise that comes in. Doesnt mean that their ideal wont be a black man – does it?
Maybe i’m wrong but you seem to be forestalling in your comments – almost as if you suspect that they wont get the opportunity to date a BM but that they should ‘hang on just in case’ regardless.
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Demerera,
When you say these black ladies don’t “discriminate,” i.e., put no racial boundaries on their sexual taste, then you are saying these ladies are willing to embrace self-annihilation.
Leading a life of nondiscrimination and tolerance IS SUREST PATH to self-annihilation.
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@thordaddy
Leading a life of nondiscrimination and tolerance IS SUREST PATH to self-annihilation.
I’m genuinely interested – whilst not meaning to pry, does this follow in your own day to day life i.e. do you keep your interaction with other races minimal, if so how do you do this?
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Demerera,
I definitely discriminate IN ALL MY ACTIONS. And in general, I discriminate between self-annihilators and Supremacists. I discriminate between those that have loyalty to nothing and loyalty to Supremacy. There is no bridge. There is meeting half-way. There are only “leaps of faiths” and “leaps into the abyss.”
Life is “infectious.” Being indiscriminate is an efficient way to get a deadly infection.
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@thordaddy
A very principled man I see. Whilst I don’t agree with what seems to be such an – excuse the pun ‘black and white’ stance, its admirable that you stand by your beliefs and convictions.
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Demerera,
That should be, “There is NO meeting half-way.”
Also, just so we are clear, do you subscribe to the idea of:
Supremacy = degeneracy
or to…
Supremacy = Supremacy???
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“BW have the RIGHT to love/date/marry WHOMEVER THEY PLEASE and NO ONE has a right to tell BW how to live OUR lives.”
This is true but bw who do just that are considered are vilified by the black community. My white fiancee and i lived in a predominately black community but we had to move because we feared for our safety. I swear black folks could be worse than the klan sometimes when it comes to black women in relationships with white men.
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Janet,
That because no matter how sexually autonomous the black man thinks he is, he still feels a stab in the gut when he sees a “sista” with a “blue-eyed devil.” If he were to truly elevate then he would recognize that the sharpness and pain of the stab is incontrovertible evidence that he CANNOT ENJOY radical sexual autonomy “consequence-free.” There is a price to be paid for this sexual disloyalty that can no longer be chalked up as in the service of the black man’s liberation. It is now seen as a REJECTION of the black woman herself.
Ergo, “angry black woman” and collectively so.
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Knee-grow please. I just watched Strange Days starring Angela Bassett. I do not feel betrayed or have some narcissistic injury because she ended up with Ralph Fiennes at the end. Most people are quite capable of tolerating strangers minding their own business. Except of course, when they try to cuckold black men with that crap. But that’s mostly pathetic BWEs anyway. Bunch of radically autonomous losers.
The problem with your view on interracial marriage , thordaddy, is that if we take it to its logical conclusion people like Frederick Douglass and Angela Davis would be considered race traitors. That is laughable. Douglass; second wife was white, yet he is still an icon of American abolitionism. Davis was married to a Jewish man, but that hasn’t stopped her from being a Civil Rights icon.
The type of sociopathy that causes one to be loyal only to self is statistically insignificant enough that it hardly merits mentioning. Most people seek to be part of some culture, some community even if they attempt to escape the one they were thrown into.
The real problem has to do with the culture you are trying to integrate into. Is it one that allows you to assert your will-to-power, whether it be racial, ideological or cultural? It had better be, unless you wish to end up a decadent loser, radically alone.
And “blue-eyed devil”? Jesus, the 2012, not 1972, the Black Panthers are over, and we don’t make blaxploitation anymore
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Janet,
It may be just be, but you seem to have some issues with the black community. What’s going on?
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Again,
(BTW I’ve never heard any Black person in recent history call someone “White devil”)
I don’t think it’s a case of “ew, that womans with a White DEVIL!” For example, a Black father who loves his daughter will see her with a White man and MIGHT be concerned that that man will not see her as the gem she is due to her race and might be inclined to disrespect her. Is that the fear of a “White Devil” or is that just a man concerned that a Black woman might be walking into a “Dr. Laura approved relationship”?
Black men who are truly that hurt over the idea of a Black woman dating a White man (or another group, since it isn’t just White and Black people in this world) usually are the ones who write hateful posts on how they can’t stand Black women. They’re also usually the ones hating on Black women for not going “natural” when they want to seem militant while publicly shaming them for not looking European enough. Its just as bad as the Black women who spend their time insulting other Black people and deciding to lump all Black men into a mold.
People are more upset at the idea that Black women assert their independence rather than the idea of them dating outside their race. Black women are supposed to be able to shoulder the abuse and loneliness, they aren’t supposed to stand up for themselves and be confident enough to make their own choices. They’re being punished for deciding to be their own women. Black women are not the most “racist” in their dating choices, but they live in a society where they’re considered the bottom of the totem pole (even many White women have their features). Is it truly fair to expect them to shoulder the burden of staying “loyal” at the cost of their confidence and happiness? If they find love with a Black man or a White man, does it really make a difference as long as she’s treated with love and dignity?
I’ve seen beautiful Black women I’ve wanted to date, and they were some of the most charming, intelligent women I’ve met. They don’t have society giving them a pass just because their the right skin color, they absolutely have to be skilled, strong and twice as beautiful to get half of the praise. It doesn’t help when people throw out crap like “black women are sexually disloyal” or come up with awful articles talking about their “flaws”.
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Ace… You say,
“People are more upset at the idea that Black women assert their independence rather than the idea of them dating outside their race.”
This is really saying the same thing twice.
A black woman asserting her “independence” is, at the end of the day if one is striving for cognitive coherency, a black woman with the “right” to decide that she no longer wants to be a “black woman.” She desires “radical autonomy,” i.e., TRUE independence.
Of course, if this ethos took hold and gain critical traction then it would foreshadow the self-annihilation of the “black woman.”
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No, she’s exercising her independence by deciding she’s not going to let any person decide her worth based on some racist standard that only she’s supposed to wrestle with.
The only true “self-annihilation” of a Black woman would be if she allowed her own personal identity to take a backseat to the idea that other people have the right to evaluate her life and tell her who and what she is or is “allowed” to be.
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Ace,
Let’s not be coy about what “independence” for the black woman actually means.
The garden variety liberationist thinks that “independence” for the black woman means the right to get a “career” and be her own source of support. But no radically autonomous black male WILL FIGHT AGAINST THIS tendency. The only black men who reject this phony notion of black woman’s “independence” are good black men whose masculine identity is tied into supporting a good black woman.
The reality is that black woman’s “independence” boils down to her sexual autonomy which also encompasses the “independence” that derives from the right to abortion. It’s called the “promiscuity principle.” In it’s most simplistic translation, it means a females “right” to do with her body whatever she pleases. In this attitude resides the seed of inherent disloyalty as one’s highest value. The black woman, in asserting her “independence,” says she WILL NOT put her life in the hands of the black man.
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Ace,
It’s 2012…
How can anyone decide the black woman’s value and self-worth AND make it have effect?
Remember, we are talking about the general perception of an “angry black woman.” Is this a real phenomenon or just more stereotyping? If it is a real general phenomenon then what is its origins?
It’s a joke to think that the white man is at the root of it.
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They are at the root of it. That stuff didn’t even start until it was decided that Black women being anything but a “Happy Mammy” there to pay lip service to racist White people was problematic to the sort of agenda they wanted to pursue.
For decades it was okay to rape Black women due to the stereotype that they were sexually promiscuous, and usually society was on the side of the rapist (and still is). For years it was okay to lynch and butcher Black women under the excuse that they weren’t “hallow ground” like White women were, they were no better than animals after all. Every day, there are articles, shows, decisions, and even laws being made based on these false ideas of what Black women are and “should be”. For example, the lie of the “welfare queen” created by the Reagan administration opened the door for a lot of policies punishing people on welfare. The fact that the majority of Black people on welfare were still working but were not able to get higher paying jobs meant nothing, because it was much easier to denigrate a group of people who were powerless to truly defend themselves. Even now, people like Dr. Laura think that the only way Black women can have fulfilling relationships is if they readily accept verbal abuse directed at their racial heritage. And while Black women are able to be strong on their own right like anyone else, they do not have society there to lift up their heads and tell them they have the right to be who they want to be. Usually they are punished for coming to that conclusion themselves.
The fact of the matter is that Black women do not inherently see any sort of interracial relationship as “liberation”. The desire to be loved and treated with respect exists in everyone, but it seems like it’s only analyzed and viewed as a negative when Black women are the ones making their own decisions.
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Satanforce,
It doesn’t surprise me at all to read you attempting to deflect any blame appropriated to the black man for the creation of the “angry black woman.”
I already gave you leeway for the types of individuals you mentioned. Perhaps, theirs where cases of genuine love, however flawed. But since we can’t ever really know, I allowed such acts to fall under “in the service of black man’s liberation” and suggested that the black woman saw it as a necessary evil in HER BID FOR FREEDOM from “white supremacy.”
You are right… It’s 2012 and this allowance given to black men by black women NO LONGER HOLDS SWAY. It is being met with a counter-sexual autonomy. Disloyalty is being matched with disloyalty. Both sides are radically autonomizing and thus both sides are self-annihilating as “black man and his black woman.”
This is fact, jack
Satanforce,
he’s know that,
he comes from Jamaica
but that means crap,
I mean
saying, “I’m Jamaican!”
it’s a trap
it’ll make the “other” dude
judge’m and stuff,
and that’s way whack,
jamaica,
you from jamaica?
Jamaica, what’s that?
That’s where the Satanforce from
and satanforce black…
How do you judge that???
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Ace,
You’re living in a mostly self-created fantasy land of an academic-making that has little connection to reality.
The rape of black women by white men is negligible. If this were a frequent event in the past (something I find highly dubious) then I suggest is was mainly a way to emasculate the black man.
BUT THIS NO LONGER HAS RELEVANCE. Is there now a “rape legacy” identical to the “legacy of slavery?”
What do you call someone who genuinely denies the “truth of the matter?”
A radical autonomist.
What are most blacks in America?
Radical autonomists seeking FINAL LIBERATION.
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Well if my disagreeing with you equals living in a fantasy land, then I guess realism is the new fantasy.
It was a frequent event actually. That’s why so many Black people actually have a White ancestor in some way shape or form. And it wasn’t as if Black women had the ability or power to say no. And it was very common through the Jim Crow era, but again it was often answered with victim blaming. White on Black rapes weren’t reported as often because there was a huge risk of persecution that the Black woman would face for even reporting it. This was the same society that actively lynched Black men (or burn down entire Black towns) for possibly “raping” White women (or looking at them the wrong way, no matter how old they were). It is also why there were laws in some places where women of color weren’t allowed to dress nicely or appear attractive due to the fear that White women were “losing their men” to these women (especially in New Orleans). There has always been an assault on the the idea of Black women making their own choices or having their humanity recognized. It hasn’t changed just because we live in 2012.
It always has relevance. Racism and it’s affect on Black women have not suddenly disappeared after the Civil War. Many of the stereotypes and assumptions leveled at Black women were created during these earlier eras and are usually brought back to light when someone wants a scapegoat. The black woman is the only group of women in the world who are on the bottom socially in all fronts. Whether it’s in regards to their race, their gender, or their sexuality, they usually are the first to be attacked and the first to be targeted.
No one’s “blaming white men” solely for the treatment of Black women. But Black women were angry at the idea that their humanity has yet to be recognized, regardless of who is offending them. White people did it first, and through internalized racism many other groups began to do it to. It could be a White man, or a Black man. As long as Black women are acceptable targets they have no other option than to focus inward and seize their own acceptance. And it is not sexual “disloyalty” to choose who you love without some racial agenda.
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Thordaddy, you do see the irony of this statement, right?
Yup. You are a troll. Light-skinned people are just blacks that don’t get enough sun.
He’s cookoo fro cocoa puffs!!
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Satanforce,
No… I don’t sense the irony. I use easily digestible baby words in their most literal fashion.
Which racial-gender pairing IS THE LEAST LIKELY to date/mate outside their race?
Who is least liking to procreate in such a fashion as to dilute one’s racial lineage?
Who is most likely to procreate so as to perpetuate their racial lineage?
(Hint: There are two answers and the answer for one is an answer for all).
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Are we really to believe that the root of the “angry black woman” is the malicious concoction of the white man to serve “white supremacy?”
Even if we acknowledge the “truth” of this
argument while acknowledging that this argument IS LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF YEARS OLD, what is the solution?
THERE IS NO SOLUTION as this narrative is currently formulated as there is no way to rid the world of “white supremacy” outside of total white genocide.
So the reality is that we have two kinds of believers in the origin of the “angry black woman” as the creation of the white man to serve “white supremacy.”
One who is subtly advocating white genocide and one who is in utter denial about the root cause of the “angry black woman.”
It is just plain silly to think your average black female gives the kind of investment it would take to get passionately exercised about the “white man” being the ultimate source of her anger.
In the average black female’s life, what percentage actually have a white male in their life of substantial “value?”
The genesis of the angry black woman is the sexual betrayal of the modern black man.
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@ Thordaddy,
Here’s some answers to your questions.
1. Asian men.
2. Asian men.
3. White men.
Even those answers don’t apply for every member of those groups, nor should it be assumed that they do. Black women were actually shown to reach out to the most men outside of their race, the problem is that they weren’t getting the same as they were giving.
I think the problem is that you are trying to force your own racial assumptions and biases to be seen as fact. Assuming Black women are the ones preoccupied with race negates the fact that they aren’t the ones repeatedly feeling the need to make those (your) sorts of statements in the first place. I find it interesting that you choose to focus on Black women, doing exactly the things that the article above is talking about, but you seem to ignore the many White people who CHOOSE to be with Black partners. What is their racial hang up, since Black women must have one?
Maybe you should actually speak to a Black woman (and actually listen to her) instead of just making those lump statements, because I’ve seen people try repeatedly to explain to you the problems they’re seeing in your statements. No disrespect intended, but its hard to respond to someone who seems to refuse to answer any argument that disproves theirs. I noticed you ignored Satanforce’s response to your assertion that White men rarely raped Black women, and you neglected to respond to my responses to those arguments too, instead deciding to make more baseless lump statements disguised as “questions”. .
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Thordaddy,
Sorry I didn’t realize you had posted a second time.
Yes. That is true. Read a history book and it will tell you what I’m telling you now. Read any historical narrative of the way things were twenty, thirty, fifty, a hundred years ago. And again you cannot assume that just because someone doesn’t directly associate with White people on a daily basis they’re not still having to deal with the sort of racism that exists in a White supremacist society. If I were a Black woman, I might not always deal with White men personally, and my Black father could raise me like a father should, but that doesn’t stop that White guy from thinking lowly about me purely on racist assumptions on how I would think and act. And since those White guys are the ones with the most power, their words are valued the most, and therefore they get to have the last say on how Black women usually are seen. If White people were willing to get over themselves and see those Black people as people along time ago we wouldn’t be having these problems. Problem is, they didn’t, and many still don’t.
No one wants “white genocide” and despite those sorts of paranoid statements most Black people want to be able to exist without people like you making these sorts of baseless statements about them. Why the fixation on Black women and who they choose to be with? I don’t see this sort of scrutiny hyped on other groups of women, but then again it could be because your demonstrated the very sort of issues I pointed out above. A black independent woman can’t ever choose to be for herself, she has to always have her motives suspect, and must always have someone else thinking they are an expert on them. It would be different if you went out of your way to associate with these Black people your so willing to speak for and prop yourself up as an expert of.
You don’t know the “root cause” of the Angry Black Woman, because, even if Black men had never been with any White women in the history of the world, it wouldn’t take away from the heaps of abuses committed against Black women by White People. There’s no way to seperate the two situations and it is pointless to try. You just can’t. The negative stereotypes and horrible treatment of Black women didn’t suddenly start the minute Black people had some semblance of rights, it started when White people thought it was okay to dehumanize women of color.
You don’t really know the “average black female”, that is your problem. If you did, you would know that many Black women associate or deal with White men daily, many times ending in positive experiences, and many times ending negatively. And even if they don’t have one of substantial value in their lives (your again assuming that there aren’t an increasing amount of White men/Black women couplings, White adoptions, gay interracial relationships etc.) that doesn’t negate the fact that it’s White men making many of the attacks against Black women, not just Black men. The problem is that on both sides of the spectrum, it is open season on Black women. The difference is that here your refusing to see the role that racism has played in that.
A Black woman chooses to be who she is, not purely based on some “racial purity idea” (confusing the sort of White supremacist idea of racial purity with anything a Black woman does in her own pursuit of love is rather insulting I’m sure) but because she has to. She doesn’t have society putting her on a pedestal because she has the right skin color, she has to make her own way. Her identity is more than whether or not some Black guy tries to sleep with a White girl. I am personally offended by the insinuation that any Black woman who would be with me would only do so to get back Black men.
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Last comment I’m doing before I have to get to bed, early day tomorrow:
In layman’s terms:
If a Black woman wants to be with a White man, let her be. It’s her choice. Despite what society tells us, she is not a tool to use when you want a scapegoat and you have no say over who she is and what she wants in life. I know it’s not easy to deal with (its so much easier to insult and degrade them, right?), but Black women are no longer required to sit at home waiting for someone to throw them a bone. Articles like this one and others demonstrate that they know what people are trying to do to them. They have thoughts and feelings worth addressing like everyone else, and you don’t get to prop yourself up like an expert on them and throw your racist interpretation into trying to dehumanize them.
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Ace,
You are regurgitating a black liberationist narrative that has not evolved in the slighest to reflect the “white man’s” general embrace of radical autonomy and his commensurate disregard for the meaning behind race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.
Also, you simply fail to acknowledge the desire of the “angry black woman.” They, much like the black man, are explicit in their demand. They demand liberation from “white supremacy.” And although, by all intents and purposes, they have NEVER REALLY BEEN UNDER THE THUMB of GENUINE white Supremacy, collectively, blacks nonetheless live squarely under the notion that they reside within an entirely “white supremacist” environment. In actuality, your everyday average black liberationist has probably NEVER interacted with a genuine white Supremacist. In addition, as this blog clearly evidences, both the black man and black woman have within their grips the most valuable freedom, the freedom of conscience and the freedom to live by that conscience.
But the radical autonomist takes this for granted as his least valuable piece of freedom is every bit worth fighting for as is his most valuable freedom. In fact, the radical autonomist, because he is singularly focused on his personal liberation, turns the most trivial and degenerate “freedoms” into those which he will fight vigorously for while he takes his most intimately and inherently valuable freedoms and attempt to bury their incredible significance and origins.
Such is the true plight of the modern black man and his black woman. But they are not alone. They are, in fact, the rule and not the exception.
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Thordaddy,
Do you have any sociological/social psychology research that supports anything you write about radical autonomy as applied to race relations (and how this approach might empower/improve quality of life for black people). It would be interesting to see if any of this wisdom has been put into action outside of the Ivory Tower. Or to actually hear someone else explain the tenets of this theory. Maybe it would make a damn iota of sense that way. Some references might even lend a little credibility to the gospel of radical autonomy. LOL.
JT
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JT,
You would have to be awfully dense to not notice the values of radical autonomy codified into law and permeating through our culture.
What…?
You have never heard that being nondiscriminatory and tolerant were good and wonderful things to do?
What…?
You have never heard that being discriminating and intolerant where evil and degenerate things to do?
What…?
YOU MUST BE IN A STATE OF RADICAL AUTONOMY.
So indiscriminate and tolerant have you become, you don’t even recognize BEING “indiscriminate” and “tolerant.”
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@JT
“Do you have any sociological/social psychology research that supports anything you write about radical autonomy as applied to race relations”
Why do you expect him to produce the kind of evidence the other side of the discussion cannot deliver? Why are you being more critical about his world view than you are about your own?
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Where is Someguy’s Captain Crunch decoder when you need it! LOL
“You have never heard that being nondiscriminatory and tolerant were good and wonderful things to do?”
Tolerance, as in, “to tolerate something?” This is hardly a symbol of progression in any respect. There is a quality of grudging acknowledgement but a true absence of love/respect/acceptance of difference in “tolerance.” Where are the testimonies to the greatness of Black Americans in “tolerance?” Where is the ideal that Blacks built this country and made it great through toiling and suffering endlessly. Where is the notion that they came out from Jim Crowe with the Prison Industrial Complex, workplace discrimination, and an endless supply of media tropes waiting on the other side? All to marginalize and reduce their standing in society through implicitly programming false ideas in the White collective consciousness.
How does your B.S. address anything real? Provide some references or something please? Otherwise, you are at a real danger of being dismissed as an emperor without clothes. If that hasn’t already happened.
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“Why do you expect him to produce the kind of evidence the other side of the discussion cannot deliver? Why are you being more critical about his world view than you are about your own?”
There is an abundance of resources within this blog, linked from each of Abagond’s post, other individual’s posts etc.
In fact, i would take into consideration that every Black on here is providing their own form of evidence. Just assume for a second that what they are saying is true to their experience of American society.
Moreover, question: why would “they” want to make any of it up???
Lastly, if you have gained nothing from those points, research Implicit racism/perceptual divide/naive realism. This might give you further insight into why there is a “other side” (as you put it, in context of this debate) in the first place instead of YOU just subsuming their points of view/recounts of their own personal history/people’s history as FACTS.
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@JT,
I think you are wasting your time with Thordaddy. I recognize him from another blog. It is my opinion that Thordaddy is not here to read links or information, instead he believes in the genetic superiority of white people and is here to counter anything that you link to, and will counter you with his own evidence, even if it is an unscientific study that says nothing:)
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@janet
My white fiancee and i lived in a predominately black community but we had to move because we feared for our safety. I swear black folks could be worse than the klan sometimes when it comes to black women in relationships with white men.
Can I ask what kind of things you experienced? Are you now in a more diverse neighborhood now, and if so, what differences are there? Did/Does your partner experience any negativity?
I ask because I am surprised that it is mostly BP that are causing you grief – from the sounds of it, in terms of IRR a lot of WP in the U.S take an extremely dim view of this too.
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@thordaddy
Also, just so we are clear, do you subscribe to the idea of:
Supremacy = degeneracy
or to…
Supremacy = Supremacy???
There are no absolutes – I have yet to meet an individual who is self sufficient enough to be able to subscribe to either of these things wholeheartedly and with the single minded determination to be able to achieve this to the letter without deviation throughout their adult lives.
Even you have conceded albeit grudingly in a response to satanforce that
I already gave you leeway for the types of individuals you mentioned. Perhaps, theirs where cases of genuine love, however flawed. But since we can’t ever really know, I allowed such acts to fall under “in the service of black man’s liberation” and suggested that the black woman saw it as a necessary evil in HER BID FOR FREEDOM from “white supremacy.”
As I said, there are no absolutes…..
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The problem is not that thordaddy is unscientific, it is that his premises are not based on anything based in the reality most human beings live in.
1) He willfully ignores history, apparently everything can be traced to the narcissistic society that came out of the ’60s movements. This means that he can ignore the history of the West from before that time, and the implications on blacks during modern times.
This is how he can willfully ignore the abundant evidence that shows that the stereotype of the “angry black woman” is a socially constructed stereotype, not some response to a (largely imaginary) exodus of black men marrying interracially.
As shown here:
and by proudchocolategirl
2) He attacks the strawman of cultural relativism. He says that people go around saying “don’t discriminate” and “tolerate everybody”. This is nonsense. NO ONE holds this view as it contradicts itself. It would be akin to me writing the phrase “I cannot write a word in English”. People who don’t discriminate are by definition discriminating against people who do discriminate. There is always some caveat to that phrase, such as “don;t discriminate against the handicapped”
In modern Western society, which is highly segmented and extremely tribalized, the thought that people do not discriminate is outright silly. And speaking of self-contradiction…..
3) If radical autonomy means disloyalty to any culture, person or ideology, and people are adopting radical autonomy, doesn’t radical autonomy then become the ideology that they are loyal to? And doesn’t that ideology then foster a culture for itself?
Radical autonomy is impossible , a theoretical construct, created by thordaddy in a moment of armchair sociology.
@thordaddy
The real problem you should focusing on is nihilism. Not this made “radical autonomy”.
I’ve read some of your other comments that you left at Human Bio-Diversity blogs, and you seem to have encountered the same problems there. Obviously its time for you to sit down and revise your theories.
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Frankly I give up.
I’ve tried to tell him but he’d much rather go on about Black women as if he knows them. He’d much rather talk about how Blacks were never under any real “racial prejudice” and ignore facts and history than actually address any points made by anyone here. How do you even talk about what Black women experience and yet not even talk about them like they are human beings or like they have genuine feelings? Why is it that only Black people are supposed to never have any authentic love for anyone and must be told who they are by uneducated racists who have no freaking clue? The fact that it’s hidden behind this faux-intellectual BS makes it even more insulting.
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@JT
I addressed your hypocrisy by pointing out the fact that you expected your opponent to deliver scientific evidence (“sociological/social psychology research”), the kind of proof your side of the discussion couldn’t provide. You deflected – said there is “an abundance of resources within this blog”, but didn’t point out any specific piece of scientific data.
You didn’t deliver the evidence and you tried to derail with some irrelevant “why would they want to make any of it up???” BS just so you wouldn’t have to admit you were wrong. I used the word “irrelevant” because that obviously cannot be considered a substitute for the scientific data you were supposed to present.
The comments on this blog are subjective opinions. Some are illogical, irrational, dogmatic or they simply contradict each other. Calling them “evidence” is objectionable. A suggestion that they may represent the indisputable truth is indefensible.
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@ Ace
It seems like this post went right over Thordaddy’s head, among others.
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Satanforce opines,
“He attacks the strawman of cultural relativism.”
Demerera says,
“There are no absolutes.”
And thus the “angry black woman” IS A CREATION of the human intellect.
Heck, the “black woman” is the very same thing.
JUST.A.CREATION. Man-made, that is…
This is what YOU FOLKS BELIEVE.
So do not be surprised when someone else RE-CREATES you.
Me… I give you maximum leeway. I give you your radical autonomy.
I’m something much more particular. I’m something much more constrained. Radical liberation was not inculcated in me from conception and beyond. Yet, it is certainly in the history.
All I have really offered up is that the “angry black woman” has her genesis in the drive for radical autonomy and the no longer accepted idea of a radically sexually autonomous black man.
But I guess “angry black woman” doesn’t actually exist?
Is that an “absolute?”
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@thordaddy
But I guess “angry black woman” doesn’t actually exist?
Is that an “absolute?”
Well, some might say it is a figment of your own imagination so…
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This is a hilarious post that Deacon Blue wrote about Thordaddy
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Abagond,
Not only did this post (and the original that inspired it) not go over my head, I actually PROVIDED YOUR READERS the real meaning of what YOU were trying to say.
YOU don’t know how to “reach” the “angry black woman” and the is because the “angry black woman” doesn’t really know who she is.
The original post was unreadable to the black man with any sense of self-worth. Thus, the “angry black woman” doesn’t know how to be heard. And because you didn’t really HEAR what the “angry black woman” was saying, you just regurgitated her rant in summarized form. You literally don’t know how to respond. So you go all tyrannical AND ATTEMPT TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE LISTEN.
But what is “angry black woman” saying?
She is her own creation. Check.
She owns her body and has the right to do with it as she please. Check.
She can have sex with whomever she pleases. Check.
She can kill any of her children in utero. Check.
By all account, the “angry black woman” IS RADICALLY FREE. She lives in a world with “no absolutes.” She is radically autonomous and hates every bit of it.
What do you say to a person like that???
You can’t say anything THAT MATTERS.
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The “Angry Black Woman” knows how to be heard, but people like you refuse to stop thinking like children and actually listen to her.
This fake intellectual BS that your pulling is just a way for you to vent your racism without any valid arguments to support it.
The ABW knows exactly who she is, the problem is that people like you are too busy trying to tell her who and what she is to actually pull your heads out of your asses.
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@ Thordaddy
ABW makes a zillion times more sense than you do. No Cap’n Crunch decoder ring required.
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Ace,
why do you keeping wasting space
didn’t you hear satanforce
ABW justa ghost face
don’t exist
anymore than colored-race
didn’t you hear Abagond
he just repeated the case
and didn’t you hear vanishing point
he sent you off into cyberspace
sent you on a silly chase
bring you to your mirror image
face to face
it’s too funny
time to re-create
when you sign back in
new name: DisgrACE…
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Abagond,
Is LIBERATION FROM “white supremacy” not the primary characteristic of the modern AND traditional black collective?
Is there a VISION of “final liberation” from “white supremacy?”
Or, more likely… Are there visions?
Radical autonomy versus genocide…
These are only only options IN YOUR LIMITED AND STUNTED PARADIGM.
Or submission, I suppose, could be a third option.
Me… I choose striving towards Supremacy.
You’re a self-annihilator… So you choose radical autonomy.
IT’S ALL IN YOUR BLOG.
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i would like to ask black men: HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE LAYING IN THE BED WITH A WHITE WOMAN OR IN THE LOCKER ROOM WITH WHITE MEN AND YOU START TALKING BAD ABOUT BLACK WOMEN (YOU’RE OWN RACE)? i ask this very question to my uncle who was married to white people and if i live to be 100, i could not describe the look on his face! i dont know if it was shame hell i just dont know. blacke men expect that no one will ever call them out on this. all i have to say is black men are fowl. sorry aba, thor and brothawolf but BLACK MEN ARE NO BETTER THEN WHITE MEN!! the white man just got to the gun first.
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I think the real issue is thordaddy’s narcissism and his constant attention seeking. To make matters worse, his actual posts are more incoherent than a Hybrid Cylon’s frantic ramblings. If you wish to preserve your mental health I suggest not engaging him in his obtuse rhetoric.
Radical autonomy.
Racial autonomy.
Self-annihilator.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
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LOL @ SomeGuy.
Amen. Going to repost this other dead-on post about Thor_Baby that Vanishing Point linked to
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Here’s some more truth for you from MrGeronimo300 on youtube about the state of America’s education system for youth today, especially black youth. Take notes Eco, Thor_Baby and other trolls.
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The “evidence” strongly suggests that Thordaddy – a wounded, sore infested and troubled troll – has a distinct “god complex.”
1. His name, ThorDaddy, implies that he believes he’s really Odin, the thunder god’s father, the head deity of the mythical land, Asgard.
2. He fancies himself all wise, all knowing and painfully patriarchal:
“I actually PROVIDED YOUR READERS the real meaning of what YOU were trying to say.”
3. He’s jealous, angry and very FULL OF … himself, as witnessed by the following statements:
“Me… I give you maximum leeway. I give you your radical autonomy.
I’m something much more particular. I’m something much more constrained. Radical liberation was not inculcated in me from conception and beyond.”
LOL, he’s certainly a “giving” god, isn’t he?
4. This quasi-god is authoritative – and he clearly sees and understands everything! Absolutely nothing escapes his gaze! Witness:
“YOU don’t know how to “reach” the “angry black woman” and the is because the “angry black woman” doesn’t really know who she is.
5. Finally, what make-believe god would be complete without the typical delusional “PROJECTION” trait that’s common among all self-afflicted supremacists?
“So you go all tyrannical AND ATTEMPT TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE LISTEN.”
Amazing isn’t it. One might think that Thordaddy was actually looking IN a mirror when he wrote this, right?
Well not exactly … when TD looks in the mirror, he’s NOT THERE.
No one is there.
We here can SEE him.
But he cannot SEE himself –
though if he could, he would see that he’s covered from head to toe with cuts, sores, wounds and blood… typical troll garb.
TD, I’ve a feeling the overwhelming consensus here is that you should return to wherever and stop torturing real people with your unoriginal & regurgitated white supremacy in *your* newly refined format. Not to mention those god-awful attempts at writing poetry – or whatever that stuff is supposed to be.
Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor TD.
Take a vacation.
Go rest and pick at your aching sores – elsewhere.
Please
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@ everyone
Thordaddy=Thaddeus??
Maybe?
The style of writing looks similar.
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Thordaddy on the web:
http://www.connectingsingles.com/user/thordaddy
http://mingle2.com/user/view/662474
If this is the same guy he has 1) been banned from other sites. 2) is looking for female companionship. A joker and buffoon whatever the case! And no I don’t have any empirical studies to prove this. His words are all that is needed as proof. Oh, those links are but a sampling. Go baffle others with your bull-sheet Thordaddy.
Obviously its time for you to sit down and revise your theories.
He’s to radically foolish for that!
The comments on this blog are subjective opinions. Some are illogical, irrational, dogmatic or they simply contradict each other. Calling them “evidence” is objectionable. A suggestion that they may represent the indisputable truth is indefensible.
As are yours. The ones that are illogical, irrational, dogmatic and so forth, make for entertaining reading so please, don’t deter anyone! I suppose your ‘evidence’ is reliable? Who gives a rat’s arse as to what you find ‘objectionable? If you don’t like it go elsewhere where the posts and responses are to your liking. Otherwise, sit back with a bag of popcorn and enjoy! The only thing indefensible is yours and Thordaddy’s tirade/comedy skits. You’ll have to try better than that when trying to baffle folks with eye straining bullsheet. Smack daddy is especially adept at this! Subscribe to blowitoutyourhole.com for further flights of fantasy from philosphphofizing loons!
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These are only only options IN YOUR LIMITED AND STUNTED PARADIGM.
Or submission, I suppose, could be a third option.
Me… I choose striving towards Supremacy.
You’re a self-annihilator… So you choose radical autonomy.
IT’S ALL IN YOUR BLOG.
No Thordaddy. It is whiteness that has brought about self-annihilation. I submit, the Angry Black Woman (ABW) does indeed exist, but it is not for the reason yoou have formulated.
The ABW envies the position that the White Woman (WW) holds. The white man (wm) is willing to treat her the way she wants to be treated, and do things for her that the BM will not do for the ABW. The ABW has become hurt, and envious that she, the mother of civilization, is not doted on by her man with the same affectations and things that the WM does for the WW.
What are these things?
Anal and Oral sex.
It is not radical autonomy that causes self-annihilation, but radical buttsecks
The white man’s eurocentric genetics have caused him to develop a dialectic hermeneutic that allows him to at once please and displease the white woman. The black men, with his afrocentric hygenics, will not bow to this regime. He uses more direct ways, but this only angers the black woman further.
So the angry woman black woman goes to the wm in an act of racial buttsecks to seek radical buttsecks, but she will on self-annihilate
As Thordaddy is eurocentric, he must, by definition, desire radical buttsecks. He thinks that he is seeking the truth, but in trying to get to the bottom of his situation, he is doubly penetrated by his contradictory need to please and displease.
Thordaddy uses this blog as a testament to his own need for radical buttsecks, thus his comments are merely an expression of his desire to self-annihilate himself.
Unfortunately when you use any hole you please without restraint,
you must self-annihilate,
Its in the Bible, the first truth
Eve tried to make Adam eat the forbidden fruit
Eve said “Adam, you’ll be free, just get on your knees, and start to eat me”
“Just ask the serpent, he’s on the level!”
But Eve didn’t know that the serpent was really the White Devil
So Eve the, original Black woman, became an ugly fatty,
But at least he’s not like Thordaddy, who has his head up in his batty!!
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It is not radical autonomy that causes self-annihilation, but radical buttsecks
Doesn’t that cause constipation and hemorrhoids? The nasty bumbo clots!
So the angry woman black woman goes to the wm in an act of racial buttsecks to seek radical buttsecks, but she will on self-annihilate
No thanks! I’d be in a world of butt hurt!
As Thordaddy is eurocentric, he must, by definition, desire radical buttsecks.
Are you sure it is not with a man?
Thordaddy uses this blog as a testament to his own need for radical buttsecks, thus his comments are merely an expression of his desire to self-annihilate himself.
This ain’t a hookup site Thordaddy! I knew there was some ulterior motives to his ramblings. Crack out the Visine!!!!
Unfortunately when you use any hole you please without restraint,
you must self-annihilate,
It is any port in a storm for Thordaddy and his kin!!!! ?Don’t turn your back whatever you do! No woman man or beast is safe!
That allows him to at once please and displease the white woman.
I thought it was his mighty pay cheque! The leggo beasts!
Butt blasters of the world unite, especially you Thordaddy! Self actualization for all!!!! Say no to self annihilation, yes to trials and tribulations!
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I love the “poem” made in my name! How lovely to know that not agreeing to what some racist tells me means I’ve somehow been defeated by him. Funny thing is that he knows nothing about who I am or what race I am, even what gender I am. Funny thing, he’s just proving the Angry Black Woman’s point.
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Ashante,
No offense taken, but where does all this anger you have coming from?
To the rest,
I knew that Thordaddy was a troll from the get go when he expressed his dislike for liberation and such.
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@ Herneith
So Thordaddy has been getting “put in his place” on blogs since 2008? Not surprising. Posters here are already getting hip to his brand of overly wordy lunacy.
Sidebar: I also noticed that on his online dating applications, he has different answers when it comes to a possible previous marriage and whether or not he has kids. Which is somewhat telling…
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@Herneith
The question you should ask is if it is from a man, not with a man
Remember his confusion of the eurocentric dialectical hermeneutic causes him to mistake his appropriate position.
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Abagond,
You really need to get you some new blog dogs. These vicious lil’ chihuahuas just can’t be taken seriously…
What…? These foreigners don’t get…
BLACK LIBERATION = Radical autonomy
These fools don’t get???
Black man “fights” for “equality?”
Cuz black man digs anti-Supremacy
Do the formulas, you will see…
Now you’re doing fuzzy math
Where Supremacy = degeneracy
And so there’s “goodness” in your call for “equality”
But your “equality” is in radical autonomy
You’re a plantation negro
In the service of radical white liberal ideology
Indiscriminate and tolerant
And into fantasy…
Whattabout TD???
Them clowns ain’t me
middle name: Thor
daddy times four
thordaddy’s got the floor
thordaddy floored
you clowns… so go find some more
sometime I wonder if I shouldn’t steal yur ladies?
Yo’ this war
but I’m a white Supremacist
striving for Supremacy
creating my legacy
and doing so much more…
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Satanforce,
Which would you rather have?
Radical autonomy
or,
The capability to exercise maximum moral autonomy?
I know the question is quite rhetorical for a creature of your stature, but maybe others will understand your answer in a deeper manner?
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@JT
You lost an argument, couldn’t admit you lost it and now you are calling me a troll. Charming.
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SATANforce,
How many commentators do you think are lost on the irony of SATAN-force arguing against a real notion of “radical autonomy.”
Dude… Who are your friends and who are your foes?
You might be the real thing… As in “the service off…”
Whoooh… Being a white Supremacist is exciting!!!
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Abagond:
However folk may feel about the marginalization of blackwomen on this planet, at least we’re talking about it openly and bluntly. For a long time in this country and abroad, the needs and wants of blackwomen have been ignored by blackmen and others. In hindsight, it was an error on our part as blackmen. Yes, all of us suffer with the bs that comes with racism, slavery, colonialism, etc. Blackwomen deal with it as women and as black people, they have it much harder than any blackman on this planet…Bottomline! Whitemen gotta come clean, they have to. Everything they have came from the blackwoman’s suffering, any whiteman and whitewoman that can’t acknowledge that is crazy. As i’ve said before in the past…Blackwomen Never Lost Their Crown, It Was Stolen!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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Tyrone,
Sorry dog,
This is the wrong mentality
Shall I say,
An effect of radical autonomy
Blacks who got TOO MUCH freedom
Swear they still stuck in slavery
And they is…
Getta kill their children in utero for free
Getta lay down, spread they legs
And fornicate with whoever they please
Fourty-five years old still searchin’ for degrees
Trying to get “educated”
While the life-affirmers building legacies
You say this been stolen
That’s an impossibilty
Possibly,
You caught in a stunted ideology
Maybe the id is all you see
Black woman is radically free
To create her legacy…
Tell’n her the white man got “it” in his grips
IS LUNACY…
It’s like “freedom” with no agency,
It’s autonomy in slavery,
It’s an unsettling acceptance of “white supremacy…”
What are really doing to stop this travesty???
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“Whitemen gotta come clean, they have to. Everything they have came from the blackwoman’s suffering, any whiteman and whitewoman that can’t acknowledge that is crazy” – Tyrone
Looks like your Conservative friends from the Tea Party have no intention of ever doing that. They would rather attempt to rewrite history:
Tenn. Tea Party Demands Slavery Removed From Textbooks
The Tea Party of Tennessee wants to remove from history textbooks any incidents of slavery and genocide linked to the founders of the U.S. for fear those references would tarnish the image of the Founding Fathers.
http://racismdaily.com/2012/01/25/tea-party-groups-in-tennessee-demand-textbooks-overlook-u-s-founders-slave-owning-history/
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Robert,
With friends like you, why would Tyrone need a genuine white Supremacist as an enemy.
If Tyrone and yourself were more discerning you would understand that the fanatical desire to make sure white kids are thoroughly educating on the set-in-stone history of black slavery IS TO PROVIDE SMOKESCREEN for the status of “black liberation” in 2012…
Blacks in 2012 are Radically Autonomous….
So radically autonomous are they that they have for DECADES near-monolithically supported a party, politicians and reverends that supported the black mother’s inherent “right” to kill her black child in utero. Meaning, the black collective is self-annihilating because they are self-annihilators.
Every black man and black woman who supports abortion is a supporter of their own self-annihilation.
That’s radical autonomy and it’s deadly.
Old slave history is deadly… A deadly smokescreen for the REAL STATE OF BLACK LIBERATION.
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it would nice to have a black man address how they talk crap about their own race to the race of their enemies!
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Ashante,
The fact that you’ve ignored my question to you is one thing, but to come here and bash black men with virtually every response is questionable not because of the issue itself, but because it has little to do with the topic.
It leaves me to wonder why you’re really here since you’ve agreed with Jay from Philly who’s obviously a troll who said the same thing you’ve been saying on this post. It just seems fishy to me.
I would be more sympathetic to you, but you haven’t shown the reasons behind it. All you’ve done was bash black men for reasons yet to be known while offering no comments to the subject at hand. Very suspicious.
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As a black man this topic is important because it talks about our sistas and how they are viewed within the public discourse. They are more seen like exotic creatures that need to be studied like on nature shows than actual human beings. It’s disturbing to me how dehumanizing the approach is to understanding the “other”. Yet, this is how the mainstream does it every time.
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thordaddy
You are projecting yet again thordaddy, you are the filthy little White supremacist who is sleazy enough to be proud of that fact as you have demonstrated on so many occasions, on so many different blogs and discussion forums.
Complete and utter nonsense that only a deeply racist deluded and deranged mind could believe.
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Robert,
What would happen if our white boys were “educated” in the increasingly exaggerated history of American slavery???
We would get more Roberts and less thordaddies, of course.
AND WHAT WOULD THAT ACTUALLY MEAN IN REAL TIME circa 2012???
It would mean that American Blacks WILL HAVE NO ONE in their way to self-annihilation.
Instead of the genuine white Supremacist arguing against Abagond’s mother’s inherent “right” to kill Abagond in utero, we will have “white” self-annihilators like Robert EXCLAIMING the black woman’s inherent “right” to kill their progeny and do whomever she pleases.
Again Robert, with friends like you, who needs genuine white Supremacists?
Who’s really filthy if not the self-annihilator?
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@thordaddy: “Instead of the genuine white Supremacist arguing against Abagond’s mother’s inherent “right” to kill Abagond in utero, we will have “white” self-annihilators like Robert EXCLAIMING the black woman’s inherent “right” to kill their progeny and do whomever she pleases.”
Of course black woman can do what ever she pleases! So can I. And you do it all the time. It is called freedom. But then again, for a little arm chair nazi like yourself, that is the worst thing in the world, that people would make their own choices and would live their own lives as they want to, not like YOU want them to live.
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Sam,
How is it “freedom” to live in order to self-annihilate because black woman has taken it as “absolute truth” that she has the inherent “right” to kill her children in utero.
Put another way, how is it “freedom” to live to tell yourself that your own mother could have chosen to kill you in utero AND it would have been a “good” thing as she was exercising her inherent “rights.”
These types of people who believe this are self-annihilators. They should GET NO VOICE in the happenings of our society. They seek death and bring nothing but death to the table.
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@thordaddy: This is off the thread but I’ll answer for you because you are so stupid,
“Put another way, how is it “freedom” to live to tell yourself that your own mother could have chosen to kill you in utero AND it would have been a “good” thing as she was exercising her inherent “rights.”
She could have done it, pal. See, over here women have rights, unlike in your land of free, where they only recetly got that freedom to decide.
If a woman decides for what ever reason to have an abortion, she can have it. It is her body. It is her choice. Period.
You, on the other hand, promote racism which has resulted in millions and millions of deaths, millions and millions of torture cases, mutilations, oppression, destruction, genocides etc. So, if you had an ounce of brains left, you would understand that you are seriously lost. In more ways than one.
“These types of people who believe this are self-annihilators. They should GET NO VOICE in the happenings of our society. They seek death and bring nothing but death to the table.”
You are one of those nutters who think THEY should have the power to decide for others. You are a little control freak, really simpleton racist, and very funny guy in your delusion. You have no understanding of the idea or concept of freedom. For you it is just a word, like a bible or the flag, and you wave them around but have no idea about them or what they stand for. Because if you did, you would not be 1) codemning others 2) barking orders.
Either you are free and stand for freedom, or do like you do; be a scared little ant who wants to control everybody because of your own scares and fears, And that, my friend, is very sad and funny indeed.
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@ thordaddy
Why are you on this blog?
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Sam,
Don’t feel that bad though…
You’re no different that Abagond or you everyday average black man.
So you hate the black man, but you hate yourself equally SO.IT.IS.ALL.GOOD.
Radical autonomy…
An all-accepting indiscriminancy (tolerance + nondiscrimination).
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Truthbetold,
To show how much of a liar you are.
Truthbetold + perpetual lying = radical autonomist
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@ thordaddy
Your purpose here is not to grow and learn. It’s to infect.
I will no longer reply to your ” dialogue”.
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Truthbetold,
I hope I can affect you with some “Black Woman Against Self-Annihilation!”
B.W.A.S…
Grow some… No… Grow some more…
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@Abagond:
Why did you delete my poem, ‘Thordaddy’, yet let Thordaddy post his crappy poems or whatever that is.. It took me all of twenty minutes to compose it!
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to brothawolf:
please xplain how black males feel when they bash their own race to their mortal and open enemies? do they feel powerful like the white man when they are doing it? please let me know.
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nevermind brothawolf, i asked my husband and he explained why yall do it. thanks anyway tho.
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@ Robert:
Thanks for posting the link about the Tennessee Tea Party’s desire for revisionism – I saw that on the news earlier and spewed my coffee!
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@ashante
Why would you assume that all black men do this? If people on this blog aren’t answering you, maybe it’s because they’ve never done it, don’t know anyone that does, or do and just didn’t bother.
BTW, what did your husband say to you?
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hallisi: when bm date ww, they DO bash bw. also, white men that i’ve worked with and gone to college with have also told me ( and other bw i know) some very ugly things bm have said about bw. no one can deny bm do this cuz they post it all over yt and the internet for everyone to see.
my hubby said the reason for doing it with a white woman and man are different: he said they bash bw to ww cuz they want to raise her self esteem therefore setting her up to get money, when she finally denies the request for money OR when she starts fussing back about his lying and cheating OR when she starts to nagging about him getting a job, he can say: YOU’RE ACTING JUST LIKE AN EVIL BLACK
WOMEN!!! and that will cause the white women to give the money or stop arguing because she wants to think she is BETTER than the bw. my hubs called it “mind fuckery”.
okay, with a white man, he said the bm does it cuz it makes him feel on the same level as the white man. hell they have something in common: THEY BOTH HATE NIG. GERS!! also,they want to seem like a non threatning bm, they cant be a threat cuz they got a white wife too! also, he said its something that men do: they talk down about a woman so no other man will try to get with her, the old I DONT WANT ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE YOU. so they make bw seem bad so the white man wont get it in his mind to try to hook up with one.
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(sigh) I notice there is a good number of black women on here that have been drinking the kool-aid. They attack any white man that comes on here and speaks on the disrespect black women receive. Oh it’s ok when we can complain about it, as long as a white guy doesn’t jump in on “our” issues? Are you kidding me? One lady called a man “slave patrol”. Why oh why do we have to use slave terms to describe white men this day in age, especially those that are jus giving their observant opinion. It’s pathetic.
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How disappointing. I was hoping to see if my attempts at writing a female Black character would be at all believable or just blown off as “not taking race into account” (Which, for the most part, I didn’t – just tried to write a few characters who happened to be of predominantly Black descent). Is there anything special I should take into account?
Also, as to the ‘Jezebel’ stereotype, I fail to see anything wrong with a woman who is sexually promiscuous, except for the unfortunate history and associated baggage in the linked articles. If anything, I am forced to wonder why a female character who just happens to be sexually promiscuous or ‘easy’ has to always be a scheming or empty-headed whore in popular media.
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@ Sid,
I might be able to help you here, I write a lot of Black characters, and there’s been this huge debate about how to write people of color in fictional works lately.
I would need to ask:
1. Is there a specific era that she exists in? What about the genre?
2. How do you describe her appearance?
3. How do you write her personality? Also, is she given the same amount of depth as your white characters are?
4. How does her race affect her in your story? That could relate to era, but you have to be cautious when it comes to area.
5. What is her role in your story?
Off the bat I can tell you that a lot of what was pointed out in the initial blog post can be applied to fiction too. You don’t want her to be seen as a non-thinking plot device who is only there to tell a white character’s story. I am not sure if this woman would be a main character or not, but it works the same regardless. She needs to have her own unique personality, and needs to exist as a person.
If her culture is different than the mainstream (something I’d need to know more about in order to give you specifics), make sure to respect it. Your other characters don’t need to, but you as a writer should.
Also, remember that black women do not think in weird alien ways that are beyond the understanding of white people. Many white writers get frustrated by writing black people (especially black women) because they think it’s too hard to get into the head of a black woman. So they either don’t try at all and refuse to write them, or they resort to basic stereotypes and make no effort to develop them beyond that.
If you would be willing to answer my questions up there, I could give you some better tailored advice.
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Well, as someone with Aspergers, I really do think in ways that are, well, sort of alien to ‘normal’ people. While this might make me more suited to writing Bizzaro Fiction (which this is) it makes me have trouble with writing ‘normal’ people.
So I generally make it so few if any of my major characters are ‘normal.’ In her case, she was pre-natally modified as a super-soldier whose job with Majestic-12 involves keeping the local crime syndicates eating out of their hand (and not that of one of the many other conspiracies out there), or acting as a (usually literal) troubleshooter. They’re basically “deniable assets”
Era is “20 minutes in the future,” it’s mostly a Bizzaro Literature-style Graphic Novel series type thing I may never end up really getting to work on. The notes are so over the place and have gone through dozens of revisions over the years. It generally deals with conspiracies, aliens, mad science, the occult, and all that fun stuff.
Appearance – Described briefly in my latest script as “A much lighter-skinned and physically fit black woman with shortish hair and wearing a biker-type outfit leans up against the wall, wearing wraparound sunglasses and drinking a soda. She has a strange tendency to give the occasional predatory ‘slasher smile’ grin like she is right now, which is a sort of habit of hers.” The “much lighter skinned” is in contrast to her grandfather, a quantum immortal who is involved in Majestic’s leadership.
Personality – Characters I write tend to be somewhat fluid in personality as the situation tends to dictate for them. A few broad traits do stick out when I think about her, like her being a confident and decisive “Action Girl” type character – perhaps a little too confident, actually. Something of a “Straight Man” to the more comedic yet scary because they shouldn’t be happening events that happen as the storyline progresses.
Impact of Race – Mostly a non-issue, except for one very key moment. OK, here goes. I am prepared for whatever people are going to say in reaction to this. I acknowledge just how messed up this is, that’s kind of the point.
At one point in the storyline, and I’m sure some people may take offense at this (I hope they do, because the things that shouldn’t be happening are often deliberately written to offend someone or other.) I sadly don’t have the script for the event handy, but the gist is that she and the protagonist come across an attempt to create human-ape hybrids, (based on the allegations of Stalin attempting this in the 50’s in conspiracy lore.) They look in the vats, and the end results look like very exaggerated Black people.
Her immediate reaction is to nonchalantly flip off the sky (well the ceiling), and in a dull, unamused fashion, she simply states: “Oh, f*ck you, God.” Goons pour in and begin attacking, and the two of them talk about this ‘discovery’ while fighting them off. The point of the scene is a dialog about who you are versus what your genes say about you – the protagonist having shot himself up with alien hybridization DNA serum prior to the start of the series, this is territory he’s all too familiar with.
The ultimate conclusions are that regardless of this new knowledge, she’s still herself and this wouldn’t change a thing even if this was true, which all the protagonist’s knowledge of genetics says is impossible and according to the notes they find, the creators of this project abused a temporal loophole which made it true for sixteen seconds in December 15, 1986. He’s the one leading the conversation, though, which is sort of a reversal of her initial role as the one who introduces the protagonist to all the crazy things hidden in the shadows prior to the space-time continnum starting to break, which is how this even happened in the first place.
5 – Initally she serves as the guide/mentor character who introduces the “hidden world” to the protagonist and manages to recruit him to her faction. Eventually downgraded to a member of the protagonist’s core clique as the plot progresses (at least so far).
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Ah, I understand. My brother has Autism, so he usually thinks in ways that others might think are different. I hope it didn’t seem like I was trying to tell you how “normal” people think, I just meant that you should write her as a individual person, not a character trope. Please don’t take anything I say as me telling you what to write, and I don’t speak for black people by any means.
Okay, I have to say…I’m impressed. Your premise sounds awesome. Is it “cyberpunk”? I’d be very interested in reading this when you are able to start working on it. I’m usually more into steampunk (I’ve got a webcomic with a vast conspiracy I’m working on myself), but I’ve gotta say, you’ve got me curious.
Appearance – So her desciption should work pretty well. I would love to see a drawing of her eventually. Light skinned black women exist like dark skinned ones do, so there’s no problem with that. As long as you don’t write her like she’s more valuable because of that lighter skin, I don’t see any issues here what so ever.
Personality – I like the fluidity. It’s good that you’ve decided to let her personality be affected by the situations she’s dealing with instead of just having her be static. That’s always a good way to avoid writing one dimensional black women. If you notice in the initial post Abagond had put there, it’s pretty similar to what you worry about here. Black women do not all think alike, and their personality should not be nuanced or condescended into stereotypes because someone refuses to consider that they are people too.
Impact of Race – First off, for the majority of black women, it would be paradise for their race to not be an issue, but sadly it is. It doesn’t randomly become an issue out of nowhere, and then go back to being a non-issue. Even light-skinned ones have to deal with it daily. Now I get that your universe might not have race as a major issue all together, am I right?
I want to make sure that I am understanding this part correctly, so please bear with me. Are you actually describing the creatures in the “vats” as “exaggerated Black people”, as in, will that be in your script word for word? I realize this is a graphic novel, so it’s definitely going to be visual. It could fall into Lovecraft territory (if you don’t know who he was, he was a really descriptive, horror/sci-fi author with a nasty racist streak…almost all of his “monsters” looked like exaggerated black or mixed-raced people and he made sure you knew it), which could wind up being a dangerous place to be. Worse, it could be seen as “Well, this light-skinned black woman’s race is never an issue , except when she’s dealing with these monkey-like black people. So if I’m in this world, am I going to be a monkey-like, exaggerated, black person?” I got to admit, the vat discovery sounds pretty messed up. That seems to be your intention though.
My only concern (beyond what i pointed out in the above paragraph) is that her race might be used as a plot device and nothing more. I’d ask:
Is this discovery going to affect her in any other way beyond this scene? Because I don’t know any black person who will be able to look at that and not shudder.
Will it affect the main protagonist in any way after this scene?
Are black people going to have to have their humanity questioned in order for a plot point and nothing else?
I like your moral that she is who she is and that won’t change based on some weird science. Will she come to that conclusion on her own volition, or because of the main character’s validation of her? That could be the make or break for that part. The fact that the person who created those creatures had to literally break reality to get it to happen makes a forceful point as well, very unique.
Oh, before I forget, the temporal loophole idea is neat.
5 – Now this could be a problem if you fall into the trap of stalling her developement. Most black characters start off serving as guides to a white protagonist (but I don’t know your main characters race, so if I am wrong, please feel free to correct me), showing him the ropes until he surpasses them or he gets the idea. Then they become background characters, there to let their misfortune teach him lessons or sacrifice themselves for his progress. Their personality becomes one-dimensional and wilted because now they only exist to support the white character on his journey. I like to call it the “Morpheus Clause”.
There’s nothing wrong with downgrading her to the faction in his immediate inner circle, like you are planning. But I would recommend that you continue to let her personality be fluid and her storyline be fluid to the situation as well, even if she isn’t a main character after a certain point.
I hope I am being helpful. If it is too jumbled or it needs to be more concise please let me know, I know it’s not an excuse but I’m not as focused as I should be, it’s pretty late on my end. Also, I’ll try to get back to you ASAP on anything you reply with.
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1- Yeah. It’s driven by a lot of the stuff I grew up on – Cyberpunk, X-Files, Deus Ex, Mage:The Ascension, et al.
2- Actually, her darker grandfather is the ‘more valulable’ character, as one of the leaders of one of the conspiracies.
3- Good.
4- I’m actually a huge fan of HPL, and recently came to terms with his bigotry in the past couple of years, definitely prefer the cosmic horror aspect of his work. But as to “the event” it only really applies to the people who are in those vats or any people (Black or otherwise) who had the misfortune to be concieved within that time-window, which she isn’t.
As to the main character’s “validation” of her, this is more a case of him briefly adopting her old role as experienced mentor/guide before they go back to how they were before. A part of the dialog I recall was when she says “Wow, you’ve really thought about this” and he mentions “Well, I am technically half-alien, so i’ve had to.” When I say race doesn’t really affect her, it’s not that she hasn’t encountered racism or whatever – it’s just that I don’t see these things as the main determinator of her character or identity.
One of the themes I want to visit more often is how much power we have or don’t have as individuals over the bad things that happen in our lives – they happen, but what we can do and what we choose to do about them is more important.
5- Well, as to her, it doesn’t really happen like that. Although the very epilog is just going to be a list of how everyone eventually bites it after the events of the story. There is actually a point in one of my drafts where the grandfather character gets shot at, and because of quantum immortality (which the protagonist pans as “bullshit” in an earlier discussion) the bullet bounces off his belt-buckle and hits the protagonist in the nuts.
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1. Very very cool.
2. Oh wow…so that’ll be a big situation for that character to deal with? I bet that’ll be interesting, especially with your deciding to give her a fluid personaity that’s affected by her situation.
3. Yep, like I said, very good idea there.
4. Yeah, HPL is tough to read through if your a member of the group of people his work happens to talk about, especially with his descriptions…I pretty much read his works for the cosmic horror too. Ah, so I see what your saying about the vat…but I can say that the imagery will automatically apply to racist caricatures of black people in the minds of readers (it shouldn’t have to but that’s our society…) even if it doesn’t apply to any black people in your story, so I would just keep that in mind while your working on that.
Okay, so I see about the “validation” part. I was just wondering because usually the trend is to have the black character base their value or acceptance on someone else’s validation, which goes back to the “Well your not BLACK black so your okay…” But what you said makes sense to me. I can say that while you might not see race as primary to her identity or character, black women don’t have the luxury to not have their race be a part of their identity because other people made sure it would be. However, I personally agree that her being black doesn’t have to determine her character.
That’s an interesting theme, usually when I read cyberpunk, I get the idea that the theme is “the authority is out to get you”, I don’t see a lot of that specific them that you’ve chosen to incorporate. Sounds refreshing.
5. That’s good, that’s probably one of the biggest eye-rollers when it comes to black people in fictional works, seems like you’ll avoid that. Oh, and that quantum immortality scene sounds brilliant.
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