Guest post by commenter Mira of jefflion.net:
Many outsiders refer to “American culture”. This often means not acknowledging significant cultural differences between black and white Americans. It’s not that outsiders don’t see race, it’s that they don’t see the huge cultural differences Americans talk about so much.
It should be noted here that it’s not easy to define what culture “really” is. Even experts (anthropologists) don’t seem to agree on how to define it.
But it might not matter in this case. There seems to be a universal mechanism that creates an “us vs them” dichotomy, and what is considered “them” is always seen in simplified, generalized terms. As the opposite of “us”, where all the differences between subgroups, even the minor ones, are exaggerated and taken as a means of building one’s identity, “they” are always seen as monolithic group. When looking at “others”, people tend to ignore even the biggest differences between subgroups, even the things that members of said groups consider obvious.
This can be observed on many different levels. For example, if white Americans are the “us”, then we will notice all the differences between whites (based on class, political views, music taste, etc), but will claim that “all blacks are same”.
The same mechanism is at play when considering things at an international level. So, just like an American sees all Eastern European, or Eastern Asian (not to mention African) countries as “basically the same” (despite huge differences in ethnicities, languages, religion, customs), citizens of other countries view American black and white culture as “basically the same”, even if they believe there are huge natural differences between races.
The way outsiders look at it, both white and black Americans share the same common, American culture. Sure, one has country music and rodeos, and the other has rap and basketball… But it’s not a big deal, right? Even when differences are acknowledged, they are still seen as far less extreme than the differences between Americans and non-Americans. In the US, on the other hand, differences between blacks and whites are emphasized, partly because each group builds its collective identity based on its uniqueness and perceived difference from another group.
This mechanism is in no way restricted to the USA, or its subgroups. It seems to be quite common thing to view one’s group as complex, while others are seen as monolithic. Why is that? In layman’s terms, people generally don’t care about groups that don’t have anything to do with them. Others are simplified and generalized so people could have some idea about them – but that’s it. It should be noted that the way they are simplified speaks more about the group that makes stereotypes, than the group that is stereotyped.
So, what’s the truth? It seems to be somewhere in the middle: black and white American cultures are more similar than their members believe them to be, but also more different than outsiders perceive.
See also:
people generally don’t care about groups that don’t have anything to do with them
I, on the other hand, wouldn’t want to be part of any group that would have someone like me for a member.
Ok, that was Groucho Marx. Nice post though Mira.
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Thanks for publishing this post!
I just want to add none of this is restricted to the American culture(s), or the way outsiders view America. This mechanism seems to be quite universal.
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So, what’s the truth? It seems to be somewhere in the middle: black and white American cultures are more similar than their members believe them to be, but also more different than outsiders perceive.
*nods* A fairly rational conclusion.
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Nice post!
I’ve always said i probably have more in common with a white redneck from Alabama than a black man in Kenya.
Growing up I could nv really understand why race mattered so much. Why people had to conform to acting “white” or “black” instead of being themselves. Why my neighborhood and schools were so mono-racial. Eleven o’clock Sunday morning is the most racially segregated time in America! You’d think things like religion would unite ppl, but in America something as basic as church is enuf to keep black and white apart.
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That pic of Obusha in the middle is freaking me out!
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In a way, only Americans can judge how huge/important are their differences (such as those between whites and blacks).
However, I do believe an average white and black Americans have more in common to each other (culturally) than to white/black people in other countries.
It’s one of the reasons why rich (often white) Americans who go around the world picking foreign wives seem extra suspicious. Many claim American (white) women are not for them… But instead picking a non-white American woman they go to another side of the world, picking a white woman from, say, Eastern Europe. And they expect to have more in common to them than to black/non-white American women? I mean… WTF?
(I am aware of the fact many foreign brides are not white; however, there are people who seriously believe they have more in common to people in other cultures just because they share the same race. It doesn’t work that way).
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“Sure, one has country music and rodeos, and the other has rap and basketball… ”
The vast majority of white Americans don’t like country music or rodeos. However, the vast majority of black people actually do like rap and basketball. Why is that?
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“However, the vast majority of black people actually do like rap and basketball. Why is that?”
I don’t know if that’s true, but whether it is or isn’t people of African descent appear to be more naturally or culturally drawn to “rhythm” and “movement,” both of which are major elements found in rap and basketball. White people, not so much because “whiteness” is defined as lacking certain traits and so-called undesirable common behaviors that supposedly define “others” aka People of Color.
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For better understanding, I think Americans need to ask:
How black and white Britons seem alike?
Do black and white British people seem the same to Americans?
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“There seems to be a universal mechanism that creates an “us vs them” dichotomy, and what is considered “them” is always seen in simplified, generalized terms. As the opposite of “us”, where all the differences between subgroups, even the minor ones, are exaggerated and taken as a means of building one’s identity, “they” are always seen as monolithic group.”
That says it all right there. Great post, Mira.
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“How black and white Britons seem alike?
Do black and white British people seem the same to American”
Good question. Unless they are recent immigrants, then yes, I must admit that they do.
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BTW, great post Mira
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“However, the vast majority of black people actually do like rap and basketball. Why is that?”
Really? How do you know that?
But, it is true that White culture tends to be defined with a broader range of possible choices than Black culture. A White guy may identify himself as a cowboy who is White. But for Blacks, they are almost always seen as Blacks first, and only then possibly as a cowboy. And that is an oddity.
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In America, black and white are racial determiners, not cultural descriptors. Culture is flowing and fleeting. Culture is forever changing, while physical identifiers of racial markers do not.
I’m not challenging the examination of race and culture. I do however challenge the ability to examine the two without ever mentioning the intentional and international social construction of Racism/White Domination
The United States brand of “us” and “them” was created, maintained and is continually refined by white people and their dependency upon A System of Racism/White Domination.
black People in Briton, Australia, America, and South American are still mistreated by A System of Racism/White Domination.
One example of a global commonality.
Mira said: “This mechanism seems to be quite universal.”
I agree, the mechanism of oppression does seem to be quite universal.
MinneB.
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I hate it when non-Americans lump us blacks with whites. All the stereotypes non-Americans have about American culture, is white culture. Please leave us blacks out of the “fat, loud mouth, overly patriotic, Americans are stupid” stereotype.
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B. Sanders,
Well, what can you do? That’s how stereotypes go, after all. I know it might seem shocking to you, but many outsiders really can’t tell the difference between you (blacks and whites), culturally.
I mean, I’d really like people to stop calling my country “Eastern European”, and I’d really like people to can tell all those huge difference between Bulgarians and Serbs, but what can I do?
MinneB,
Us vs Them mentality works on many levels and is not restricted to race. It can also be the dichotomy male/female. Young/Old. Etc. In this case, I was talking about nations (countries). While there are many blacks who are not satisfied with what’s going on in the US, they do see themselves as Americans, American citizens. So the level for us vs them dichotomy I was talking about here is American/non-American.
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Well, yes this is with most if not all countries. There is usually a unifying culture or rhetoric that makes ppl from a particular country similar to a certain extent. Speaking from my own culture, people from the west indies tend to be identifiable as west indian regardless of race or class. So I think it is okay to say something general like…Americans are….or most americans are….because outsiders can see the characteristics intrinsic to being American. But of course when you look at America from within there are smaller groups with differences but then you can do the same thing with each of these groups as they also have unifying charateristics.
I live in North America now, but back home watching a lot of American tv…especially when Americans had anything to say about another country or an international issue, i found it shocking how ignorant a lot of the general populace is. And the rhetoric even all the way up to media and politics as well is the same. I KNOW all Americans are not stupid, I don’t even think American’s are stupid, BUT from rhetoric I do believe there is a tendency to be ignorant about other people AND to not care about it. And it has nothing to do with stupidity but a very HIGH sense of nationalism (if i can call it that). I guess a better term would be that America as a country (not the individual ppl) tends to come across a bit self-absorbed. And that kind of rhetoric is American regardless of whether ALL americans are like this.
I mean there was a girl I was sharing my room with. She’s smart. Shes won awards. She’s studying environmental engineering. I would never claim that she is dumb. Not at all. BUT if you can’t tell me where Venezuela is on a map….or identify an Indian or know that an Indian is also an ASIAN….well sorry I have no other choice but to deem you ignorant. Oh and africans do not speak african, and all non-american blacks do not come from africa.
So yes it sucks to be lumped in with the Americans who act like they don’t need to anything about anybody else besides themselves when you know differently BUT that is the rhetoric that is put forward about America and if you’re american you can’t bypass that. All you can do is pleasantly surprise those who don’t expect you to know.
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@ Mira-
“Us vs Them mentality works on many levels and is not restricted to race.”
I agree, the Us v. Them mentality operates on many levels.
In America, the prototype is black and white. The American formation is of US v. Them is well documented.
“…It’s not that outsiders don’t see race…”
Do they see the System of racism?
“…it’s that they don’t see the huge cultural differences…”
Do outsiders see the culture the system of racism creates?
“…But instead picking a non-white American woman they go to another side of the world, picking a white woman from, say, Eastern Europe. And they expect to have more in common to them than to black/non-white American women? I mean… WTF?”
WTF? Its not a mystery.
The American White male will share the culture of whiteness with his Eastern European “Bride”. The white male’s Bride will be taught English (if she doesn’t know it already) and (if she wasn’t Blond before, she will become Blond shortly thereafter) becomes indoctrinated into the culture of Racism/White Domination. It’s that easy. It’s that prevalent. It’s that oppressive. It’s that arrogant. Adding fresh ignorant White people into the racist mix.
“American culture. Sure, one has country music and rodeos, and the other has rap and basketball… But it’s not a big deal, right? Even when differences are acknowledged, they are still seen as far less extreme than the differences between Americans and non-Americans.”
Mira, From where do you get your views of Americans; especially Non-White Americans? From your limited perspective, I can understand how you might find OUR differences “no big deal” because your two examples are…no big deal to us. They are optional activities.
But the stereotypes re-enforced and perpetuated give the appearance of cultural threads and identifiers, when what they really, do is fit the control needs of the dominant culture…and spread that stereotype around the World.
Growing up in Chicago, I have had some very real interactions with Serbian immigrants and their offspring… and let me tell you, boy o boy, do they learn to act like “Americans” real fast. Not the basketball playing, rap music listening Americans. They act like racist white Americans.
If you have ever have the opportunity to actually speak with a Black American living/visiting/working in your parts of the World, (Wherever it might be) Your conversation might be more engaging if you have a broader perspective ( Thanks to the internet and bloggers!) about the country they come from.
I guess that’s pretty universal too.
MinneB
MinneB
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@Kareem
“I don’t know if that’s true, but whether it is or isn’t people of African descent appear to be more naturally or culturally drawn to “rhythm” and “movement,” both of which are major elements found in rap and basketball. White people, not so much because “whiteness” is defined as lacking certain traits and so-called undesirable common behaviors that supposedly define “others” aka People of Color.”
“Naturally drawn”? Nah, nature has nothing to do with it. It’s just culture and stereotypes in my opinion.
In the US, Hip hop albums are mostly bought by white Americans, right? So, how come so few rappers are white? White people are clearly into the music. They don’t have the talent to be the next T-Pain or Keri Hilson? I bet some are talented enough, but they don’t have the right image, they don’t fit the stereotypes. When white people try to do hip hop music they are usually seen as wannabes or posers.
For similar reasons there will not be a black Taylor Swift in the foreseeable future. Because of the negative stereotypes a black girl will not achieve the wholesome and angelic image that sells Swift’s terrible music.
I think metal will become multicultural faster than hip hop or country. Fewer and fewer metal fans care about the fact that Sepultura is from Brazil, Boris is from Japan, Gojira is from France, Tosin Abasi is African American, etc.
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You know, that thing about rock/metal being a white thing is completely new to me. It’s sure not a stereotype that exists in my culture. Quite the contrary.
And I must say I’ve never heard any Taylor Swift songs.
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Mira,
About 15 years ago rock/metal bands that weren’t from Europe or North America were seen as unusual. These days this music is becoming more and more multicultural.
Especially the new, relatively accessible subgenres with a teenage fanbase, like deathcore or easycore, seem to attract kids from practically every ethnicity. Whites are still the vast majority, but other ethnicities are more and more noticeable.
As for Taylor Swift – she makes watered-down country-rock targeted at teenage girls. These are innocent, sentimental songs about being a princess and kissing her boyfriend in the rain, having a crush on a boy who doesn’t like her, and stuff like that.
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MinneB
“Growing up in Chicago, I have had some very real interactions with Serbian immigrants and their offspring… and let me tell you, boy o boy, do they learn to act like “Americans” real fast. Not the basketball playing, rap music listening Americans. They act like racist white Americans.”
Linda says:
When I first came here from Jamaica, I did 2 years in high school in New Jersey. The first year we lived in a predominately black American neighborhood. The black American kids would make fun of the way I talked, the way I looked, the food we ate (Oh my God, Goat!) and called me loving names such as “African Porch Monkey” and “Jungle Bunny”…They were not in a hurry to be my friends.
The second year, we moved to an area that was predominately white, the white American kids mostly ignored me, until the day one of my teachers announced that I had gotten the highest score on a test and he said that, ‘It was natural because West Indians are very smart and the other kids should follow my example.’…that didn’t go down very well and brought me negative attention…so then my classmates started calling me a “Nerd” and tried to make me feel bad about myself by saying “I came over in a banana boat” and that “Jamaicans lived in huts.”
So, yes, I definitely saw black and white Americans as being similar in their ignorance and rejection of anything foreign.
Every country has to deal with prejudice and built-in racism of some sort, America doesn’t own that…
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I meant to add above:
To me, the behavior and beliefs of the children will reflect what they are taught at home and by their environment.
For most immigrants, it’s our children who will assimilate and become the “real Americans” because they have no choice…if they wish to be accepted and be part of a group, they have to choose a group and act accordingly…
like the saying says, “when in Rome, you act like a Roman”…and skin colour in this country plays a huge part on the group our children will align themselves with.
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“When I first came here from Jamaica, I did 2 years in high school in New Jersey. The first year we lived in a predominately black American neighborhood. The black American kids would make fun of the way I talked, the way I looked, the food we ate (Oh my God, Goat!) and called me loving names such as “African Porch Monkey” and “Jungle Bunny”…They were not in a hurry to be my friends.”
This one woman last week told that BAs have the right to very racist because slavery. Yes, she said that. Which was one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I love goat meat. My family used to eat it on 4th of July. Oxtail stew is so awesome, but I haven’t had for a long time.
“But, it is true that White culture tends to be defined with a broader range of possible choices than Black culture. A White guy may identify himself as a cowboy who is White. But for Blacks, they are almost always seen as Blacks first, and only then possibly as a cowboy. And that is an oddity”
This is my main beef with other blacks. They want to get mad about non-blacks streotyping them, but want to disown each other when one of them doesn’t act like them. I don’t about being black all the time and I don’t let it get in my way on enjoying life. Being black is the last thing I identify. I am a person that just happens to blackish………….. Every once in a while, my Horner/Zambo pride comes out. I do think that BA are too obsessed with themselves. And no, I don’t care what white people think. Stop letting them rule over you.
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Edit: I don’t think about being black all the time and I don’t let it get in my way on enjoying life.
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B. Sanders:
“I hate it when non-Americans lump us blacks with whites. All the stereotypes non-Americans have about American culture, is white culture. Please leave us blacks out of the “fat, loud mouth, overly patriotic, Americans are stupid” stereotype.”
I understand that in the US, black and white culture are often defined in contrast to one another.
But take it from me, as a non-American (Australian), while we are aware of the differences, it does seem that black Americans have far, far more in common with white Americans than with anyone else.
For example, what I have seen of black Americans doesn’t lead me to believe that they are any less fat/loud-mouthed/stupid than white Americans. Patriotic – maybe not quite so much.
Please don’t take that as a put-down of blacks, it’s not, any more than it’s a put-down of whites. It’s just that by many measures, you guys don’t seem that different.
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@ Eurasian Sensation
How DARE you!!!!
Blacks are not fat!! We’re ‘THiCK!’
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Bush and Obama are cousins…
well 10th cousins once removed:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/25/barackobama1
Brad Pitt and Obama are 9th cousins…and Dick Cheney and Obama are 8th cousins.
“Obama and President Bush are 10th cousins, once removed, linked by Samuel Hinkley of Cape Cod, who died in 1662. Pitt and Obama are ninth cousins, linked by Edwin Hickman, who died in Virginia in 1769. Clinton and Jolie are ninth cousins, twice removed, both related to Jean Cusson who died in Quebec in 1718.”
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/obama-and-bush-are-cousins/
“Meanwhile, Obama is also related — even more closely — to Dick Cheney. They are eighth cousins, both descended from a French Huguenot named Mareen Duvall who settled in Maryland in the 17th century.”
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“How DARE you!!!!
Blacks are not fat!! We’re ‘THiCK!’”
If had a dollar for every fat chick that said that they were thick, I would never have to work again for 2 lifetimes. No miss, I can’t believe that your 250lbs on big bones. As Cartman would say, ” I’m not fat, I’m just big-boned”
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Dear Linda and any other non-White person,
Please allow me to sincerely apologize for the sorry way a few ignorant black Americans behaved towards you. Forgive them. For they are/were truly ignorant of and victims of a System of Racism/White Domination. They were mimicking what they had been taught and experienced.
You definitely sound like a hurt victim of the same system I have to endure. If I see you on the street, I will acknowledge you as a black person first. Splendid and present. I see you. I know and love the ground of your origins. In America, we share in the same system of oppression(internalized or otherwise), Simply because of the color of our skins.
Whether you chose to recognize it or not, that is your decision.
I engage in a struggle against a system. I fight against the System of Racism/White Domination for all people classified as black. I am against a System of Racism/White Dominance. I am not against individuals. I can envision replacing a System of Racism/White Dominance with Justice. Can you?
Linda said:”And no, I don’t care what white people think. Stop letting them rule over you.
I am 6th Generation African-American. I did not/nor did my people have the “option” of immigrating to America from somewhere else. My ancestors have blood in the soil of this country. White American people do not rule over MY mind.
If the mechanism of Racism/White Domination and the people who benefit from it’s existence have their way; black American people would and should FORGET ABOUT our HISTORY or our ANCESTORS blood investment in this land.
“Every country has to deal with prejudice and built-in racism of some sort, America doesn’t own that…”
You see, this is where you and I may differ; I don’t believe that prejudice and ‘built-in’ racism ANYWHERE is acceptable.
MinneB
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MinneB: I understand that but I believe certain people chose to be stupid. I mean, they could walk their a**es to the library and pick up a book . No white man is going to cut off their foot for gettin knowlegde. Alot of BAs don’t know their own history or like to pick and choose. For example, you never hear about slavery in Libera.
http://www.thegrio.com/black-history/politics/former-american-slaves-played-oppressive-role-in-liberias-past.php
Or about the role of black atheists
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127239913
They’re no better whites. I prefer to go by person by person.
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Well from my perspective as a lower income white there is not a whole lot of difference between me and black people that the media would like you to believe. My mother is second generation Italian on her Fathers side and third generation on her mothers side from the overbrook section of west philadelphia . We have no mob afilliation however my grandfather was friends with some associates. he never swayed when asked to run numbers or be a lookout but he did sell them home made wine. called deigo red.
The Irish side is a bit more complicated , my Dads Dads family came over the boat but my dads moms family was here for like early 1800s and its the same thing on his moms side but visa versa.
I wont bore you with the details but somewhere along the line on my dads moms side there were indentured servants. from what I was told this was a horrible thing because they would make you do the worst of the worst on the farm. why use the black mercedes to haul the heaviest load use the piece of shit white pick up to do that.
Some black slaves were alowed to rape the white irish indentured servants.
When my mother and father were a couple in the early 1960s in west philadelphia it was worse than a mix couple today the irish and italians were competing immigrants and pretty much hated the sh out of each other. even with the roman catholic in common there was many people on both sides that hated my mother and father.
My Grandfather on my dads side had his hip partialy removed and still worked as a stone mason he died at a very early age before I was born .
My Grandfather on my moms side used to steal coal of of moving freight trains when he was eight years old just for heat. he never finished high school and got a job at the philly naval yard from age 15. he worked at his construction business that he left to his son my uncle until he was 78 just to help support the huge family.
Tell me how we are so different. but you will see my white skin and judge automaticly and think I’m part of some bull system
The philly mob has been pretty much destroyed but crime still persists. more than ever. I believe the organization of the italians scared government officials and they shut them down.
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@ King:
LOL! I stand corrected!
Regarding some of the aforementioned stereotypes…
A common perception of Americans from the outside is that they are loud and brash. I think the perception of black Americans is that they are the loudest and brashest of Americans.
Another perception of Americans is that they are blindly patriotic and are largely uncritical of their nation’s perceived role as the best most awesomest country in the world. Black Americans seem to fit this stereotype less.
I must say though, that with the recent obnoxious reactions across social media to the Japanese disaster (http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-douchebags-on-social-media-think.html), I was surprised to see a lot of black and Hispanic people making the same ignorant “that’s payback for Pearl Harbour” comments. I kinda expected better from non-whites.
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“I was surprised to see a lot of black and Hispanic people making the same ignorant “that’s payback for Pearl Harbour” comments. I kinda expected better from non-whites.”
If you mean that you cannot find Black fools on the internet saying foolishness, then that is obviously not the case. Why, you can even find Black fools on the worldwide web putting their own race down, so of course they’ll attack the Japanese.
It only takes a small percentage of village idiots to make a bad impression worse.
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To Dave:
Some black slaves were alowed to rape the white irish indentured servants.
To what end…? I doubt this was common.
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@Dave:
“Tell me how we are so different. but you will see my white skin and judge automaticly and think I’m part of some bull system”
The book: HOW THE IRISH BECAME WHITE, by Noel Ignatiev spells out the history of Irish in America. Easy to read. You might find it illuminating.
“Some black slaves were alowed to rape the white irish indentured servants.”
Mmm…again, The book: HOW THE IRISH BECAME WHITE, by Noel Ignatiev could provide you with an accurate representation of the historical relationship between the Afro-American and the Irish.
MinneB
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@ Dave
“Tell me how we are so different. but you will see my white skin and judge automaticly and think I’m part of some bull system.”
Notice, by that very statement, you are equally judging us. Most of us work and have great friendships with White people every day of our lives. Careful in assuming what you think that we are assuming. On this particular site we discuss racism. But that doesn’t mean that our personal lives are like this site.
But as for skin color, it’s not simply a question of background but of opportunity. If you get a haircut, put on a suit, and mind your manners, none of your background will be relevant in the job market or in most social settings today. However, a Black man is inescapably Black, even in a suit and with a degree framed on the wall. There are still a lot of societal hurdles to being accepted in the same way that everybody else is.
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@ MinneB Well the words that I wrote came directly from my father who is 100% irish descent on both sides of his family, his father’s side was easy to trace considering his paternal grand parents immigrated. to trace his mother’s side took years of research and he has read many books about irish americans written by the irish.
So if you would like to dispute my words further maybe you should talk to real irish people.
@king everything written on this post is mostly pure speculation on both sides but the story of my family isn’t . I didn’t have to put my self out there but I did.
I am speculating on abagonds possible thoughts based on previous post because that is all I have to go on. I think he should take some of your advice on the subject. we are all individuals but we are also forced to judge collectively in historically racist america on both sides.
I am half irish half Italian but I look more like pauly the boss from goodfellas (actor Paul Sorvino). so believe me I am judged by alot of white people . actually I feel it alot more from whites than from blacks.
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@ Lalala
” So yes it sucks to be lumped in with the Americans who act like they don’t need to anything about anybody else besides themselves when you know differently BUT that is the rhetoric that is put forward about America and if you’re american you can’t bypass that. All you can do is pleasantly surprise those who don’t expect you to know.”
Unfortunately, a lot of kids in the United States are educated by teachers who wouldn’t be able to find Venezuela on a map themselves.
That’s because even public schools need funding “gifts” from the corporations to survive. So most of what’s taught in US classrooms is what Corporate America finds useful for the next waive of worker drones to know. Nothing more, nothing less.
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@ eco
I don’t know about T-Pain (I’m sure I’ve heard his stuff, but it didn’t make much an impression), but Keri Hilson and Taylor Swift are both AWFUL! There’s a cable ad of Swift screeching in a video which always forces me to choose whether I should throw the remote at the screen to stop that god-awful noise or just change the channel.
So far, the television has survived.
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i take it as an insult to be compared to a white american. because college has confirmed that all i ever see in a white american is a racist. its amazing how supportive they are of racists. you’d think college existed to educate people, not to dish out more dummies. of course with college just being a business, they don’t care who they let in anymore as long as they get money.
if the rest of the world wants to hate america then fine, but do it on the merits of white people because black people have no say whatsoever.
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This “us too” attitude some Irish Americans use to approach AA/BA history is patronizing as heck.
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“Do black and white British people seem the same to Americans?”
Yes. At least to me. From my perspective it seemed like on the surface at least the British had somehow solved racism haha. Until these riots became news then I realized that was def not the case.
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I am a native-born citizen of the USA (Washington, DC, no less), lived in majority black neighborhoods, majority Latino neighborhods, majority white neighborhoods (including lower middle working class, middle class, upper middle professionals), and also spent time in some majority Asian neighborhoods.
I fully agree that black and white Americans are very much alike in myriads of ways, more alike in many ways then even white Americans and white Canadians. Even when I was growing up there, I felt that the differences between white and black Americans was more of one of perception, then of actual real differences. By and large, they also share the same ancestry, a mixture of European, African and Native American.
But, that aspect of perception makes all the difference in the world – esp. the viewpoint of (many) whites that blacks are not quite human, and that they have a chip on their shoulder. At the same time, (some) whites feel guilty of this and try to appear colour-blind. Yes, there is a social gulf between blacks and whites in the USA, but by and large, the similarities overwhelmingly outweigh any differences.
@Eurasian Sensation
I am not surprised, because they are not as different as they think. 😛
It’s sad. They will take this stereotype and apply it to Asian-Americans, who, in most ways, are likely very similar to them. 😛
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@ Jefe
I think Black and White Americans are WAY more alike than either care to admit. I think there is are cultural differences – most blacks are not Oreos – but it is no wider than that between White America and Britain: there are just too many things blacks and whites have in common just by being American.
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There is indeed a social gulf. You see it most clearly at certain institutions, eg,
– religious institutions
As a multiracial American, I found this one most vexing. It seems like all religious institutions have members which are 99% similar from a racial / ethnic perspective. I never quite felt comfortable going to church there. But, I can say one thing – one can tell a lot about your racial and ethnic identity by the kind of church you attend.
– social and recreational clubs with limited membership
I have visited an exclusive country club only a couple times in my life, but I felt even more uncomfortable than at church. There were NO non-white members. The only non-white people there were invited as guests by members and made up less than 1% of the people there.
I know I might be attacked for this, but once you step outside the USA and look back, nearly all black Americans look like some kind of Oreo to me — embracing a culture that is by and large the same as white people. Yes, there are some differences, but by comparison seem so inconsequential compared to everything else. But, I guess one of the main differences is the notion of White Privilege. So, I interpret the aspect of Oreoness to be one where someone who technically should not be entitled to the full aspects of white privilege, but who nevertheless tries to enjoy some of the benefits of white privilege by behaving or adopting certain attitudes which do not challenge the notion of white privilege. The blog gave many specific examples of this already.
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Having lived out of America for a decade and a half and having travelled most of my life I know I am American. I was raised there and went to school there and share part of who I am with the general American public. Like when my British friends said they think they should be able to vote for the American president. I think redcoat please.
However, it is fun to see European American’s talk about racism in other countries. I hear it a lot in Japan, they don’t want to sit next to me, no matter how hard we try we can never be fully a part of Japanese culture. They won’t let me go here because I am a foreigner. Ah Sigh, I just sit back and think where have I heard some of these things before. I also love how many non-americans think American’s in general are loud mouth, aggressive pushy, violent people. I hear a lot of my paler friends get upset about that and I think hmmm! Still, I am American.
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Linda said:
Usagi said:
MinnieB replied:
To which Usagi said:
I used to believe that black and white Americans were not alike.
But, I realize now, with age and from being on this blog, how naive I was to believe that…
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