Michelle Alexander, a civil rights lawyer and law professor at Ohio State University, argues in “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness” (2010) that the mass imprisonment of black men since the 1980s has taken the place of Jim Crow as American society’s main way to control black men – just as Jim Crow itself took the place of making them slaves. Angela Davis makes this argument too, but what follows is Alexander’s take:
America has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world, higher than the cruelest, most backward governments on earth. It has five times more people in prison now than in the 1970s.
Prisons have become a huge part of American society: if it were to return to the levels of the 1970s a million people would face being thrown out of work. And that is just those who work at the prisons. The freed prisoners themselves would drive up the black unemployment rate by at least 15 percentage points since few employers will want to hire them.
It has little to do with the crime rate and everything to do with the War on Drugs. But it is not drug dealers who are filling up the prisons, like you might think, but people caught with drugs, few of them with a violent past. And in most cases we are not even talking about the hard stuff, like heroin, crack or cocaine, but marijuana – weed!!!
And it gets worse:
While blacks and whites sell and possess drugs at about the same rate, guess who is filling up the prisons under these drug laws? Mostly black and Latino men, particularly those from poor neighbourhoods. In some states as many as 80 to 90% of those found guilty of a drug crime are black men. But the Supreme Court sees no racism in that.
Drug possession is a felony. That means you go to prison. And even after you do your time you do not get to start over clean. For one, almost no one will hire you. Most professional licences are out of the question too. For the first five years you cannot get public housing – just when you need it most. You will never again get food stamps. And on and on. Your life is messed up forever. So what becomes of you? We already know: within three years there is a 70% chance you will be back in prison.
The very rights that blacks fought for in the civil rights movement, like the right to vote and to serve on juries, are denied to those in prison and even many who have done their time. This directly weakens black political power.
Millions of black men are having their freedom and rights taken from them and their lives messed up forever – for what? For violent crimes, for hurting people? No. For something that white people get away with all the time. Because it has nothing to do with drugs or crime but everything to do with controlling black men.
See also:
The American prison/military complex is well documented. The U.S.A is a prison state. In Canada. getting caught with a small amount of marijuana is not an issue. Recently, they had a freedom festival in celebration of marijuana and the cops didn’t bother anyone.
There’s a tragic video on youtube about a young man who died of suffocation after swallowing a small bag of marijuana when the cops approached him.
It’s silly that marijuana isn’t legalized in small amounts.
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The reason other countries are not filled up with prisons because they will 86 your @ss if you break the law in their countries. No Prison, No Court…You will just Vanish.
The US of A is too leniant on criminals IMHO.
Here is a lesson for you:
If you do NO crime…..You will serve NO time
Bottom Line
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Wait… Are you saying most of the black people are in prison because of drug possesion. Even if drug in question is weed?
Oh please! Thank makes no sense. As far as I know, possessing and using drugs is not considered a crime in my country- only selling and distribution. Which means, if you’re caught with a joint you certainly won’t go in prison. Are you saying it’s different in America (on general), or that there’s a regulation which allows policemen to act as they see fit: so they arrest only black men they catch smoking joint, but not whites? Is there such a regulation? Or is using drugs illegal altogether?
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Interesting, so you indeed get to serve time in jail if you get caught with small amount of weed? It must bee expensive to keep all those people in jail for the tax payers. I seriously do not understand that how Americans can accept that, when you making such a mess just because of this new health reform, Crazy. If you want to be that harsh on light drugs, it would be better economic to give a first time warning and then an economic reprimand (multa?). Is it true that you in the U.S. even can go to jail for a long time if you get caught the 3.rd time stealing a chocolate bar?
I also wonder which countries The Great White Man refer to. It could be interesting to know witch countries you Americans like to compare you with.
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Thank you Agabond!!! I have been waiting for this post. For once I think you went too easy on white people, whites do and deal far more drugs than POC. Here is a quote from cannabis culture
“The adults in America who have ever used marijuana, we find that white folks are consuming marijuana in larger proportions compared to their population. Over three-fourths of all marijuana consuming adults are white (76%), while only two-fifths (20%) are Hispanics or African-American. This is an interesting fact to note when compared to the proportions of white, black, and Latino people arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for marijuana.”
Here is a link to the full article.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/who-are-you-us-government-statistics-adult-marijuana-users
One of the reasons POC get arrested more is because the prison system is privately owned in many cases, and the poor and impoverished can’t afford a good lawyer. So they fall into the system easier. If you look at the statistics most white people that end up in prison are also lower class. It is just easier to feed the system with poor uneducated people than people who can afford to fight for their rights. Here is a link to how the privatized prison system works, capitalism at its finest. (Rolls Eyes)
http://mediafilter.org/mff/prison.html
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Prisons are ‘big business’ and at the same time ‘corrupt’ and unfortunately not just in the U.S.
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Mira
“so they arrest only black men they catch smoking joint, but not whites?
No, they just enforce poor areas more than the rich neighborhoods. The result is more POC getting caught. I don’t know any cop that would not arrest a white man for smoking a joint. It also is different state to state, some states you don’t get arrested at all for possession other states you do.
Is there such a regulation? Or is using drugs illegal altogether?”
Most drugs are illegal altogether, a person usually has a three strike warning system when it comes to Marijuana though. 1st strike usually = 30 days in a local jail, 2nd strike = big fine and more jail time, 3rd strike = equals felony and up to 5 years in prison. Of course this is just Marijuana if you get caught with a harder drug, it is a automatic felony and prison time.
Marijuana possession alone equals 754,224 arrests each year in the US.
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Yeah, O, you are right to want this subject talked about.
Ive read the statistics that indicate there are many many busts , especily during the Bush years, of people for just poscesion of marijuana.Most are people of color.
I totaly agree with the tone of this article. It is a desgrace.
Marijuana should just be legalised
Thank god there are some great people trying to get it legal in California
A huge huge percentage of prisoners are there for drugs. Drugs should be a social issue not a criminal issue
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Ó Dochartaigh,
what amounts of marihuana are we talking when you saying up to 5 years in prison on 3rd strike? Smoking a joint? I’m not American, just curious on these. I’m very fascinated of a society where it almost comes to riots when the government tries to implement a decent health reform, but the same opinion are more than willing to use billions of tax money on imprison drug users.
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ML
Like I said it varies from state to state. In my state, under 100 grams = a minor misdemeanor and no jail time, but there is a loophole; if you get caught with paraphernalia ie a pipe, rolling papers, or anything else used to smoke it with, you get 30 days in jail even for a first offense. Then the charges get bumped up to a misdemeanor and a $750 fine, nobody carries around Marijuana without paraphernalia and the state knows that, so you almost always get arrested. If this happens 3 times you more than likely get prison time. My state is lenient however, some states if you get caught with less than 30 grams it is a automatic 1 year prison sentence and a $5,000 dollar fine even for a first offense.
“I’m very fascinated of a society where it almost comes to riots when the government tries to implement a decent health reform, but the same opinion are more than willing to use billions of tax money on imprison drug users.”
Many Americans don’t want to change the drug laws, as the great white man said,
“If you do NO crime…..You will serve NO time
Bottom Line”
this is how many die hard conservatives feel about the drug laws, they like them!!!! I am a conservative and I am appalled by the war on drugs, I wish more Americans felt the same as I do.
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It is definitely an unjust system and it should be corrected. I don’t know if I would go so far as to say it’s a conspiracy to control black men. These men are going to jail for committing crimes. Let’s start from the beginning. What can we do to keep these black and Latino men out of the criminal justice system to begin with?
Nobody is forcing these men to commit crime. Let’s face that getting involved in crime is a personal decision. Why are these men making this decision instead of deciding to get an education and get a job? Whatever those factors are, we should deal with while at the same time fighting for fairer enforcement of the law.
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Thought I would offer a differnt perspective, if I may…
Black Women’s Experiences of the Criminal Justice system in the UK
By Ruth Chigwada-Bailey, Consultant Criminologist
http://www.black-history-month.co.uk/articles/blackwomensexperiences.html
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thanks for the link J
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O Dochartaigh is only 100% right in his first post. I did ar research paper on the US prison industry and the vast majority of prisons are PRIVATELY. Because of the incentives for incarcerating people are strictly monetary. While researching I discovered that is can cost up to $100,000 to build one jail cell! There is a lot of money to be made of the US prison system and believe me those private companies that provide food, build the shelter, and proved other “amenities” to US prisons are lobbying long and hard to get stricter sentencing for crimes, especially non-violent offenses.
In the United States 1 out of 100 people has either been incarcerated or is currently serving a sentence, I my memory serves me the US has an incarceration rate nearly double that of Russia and/or China.
I have always called the ‘War on Drugs” the “War on Black People” and Latinos. Just look at the sentencing discrepancies when it come to crack and cocaine. Crack, despite not being a pure, illicit substance, garners a much harsher sentence for possession than its more potent pure form(cocaine). Why? Because mainly poor, black male druggies get high off of crack while cocaine is the drug of choice for affluent middle to upper middle class whites.
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Cheers J!
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I going to do a post on Black women experiecens in the CJS on my blog
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@ J
Wow… thanks for sharing. Good read. I didn’t think the UK was “that bad”.
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Simple truth: this is nothing more nor less than post-modern slavery.
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poetess says,
It is definitely an unjust system and it should be corrected. I don’t know if I would go so far as to say it’s a conspiracy to control black men. These men are going to jail for committing crimes. Let’s start from the beginning. What can we do to keep these black and Latino men out of the criminal justice system to begin with?
Nobody is forcing these men to commit crime. Let’s face that getting involved in crime is a personal decision. Why are these men making this decision instead of deciding to get an education and get a job? Whatever those factors are, we should deal with while
laromana says,
poetess, I strongly agree with your comments above.
ALL criminals, regardless of race, should be punished on the basis of FAIR, NON-RACIST standards.
What most matters is that law abiding citizens be kept safe from criminals.
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Abagond,
Thanks! I have been looking forward to this.
So many naive simpletons going about talking about crime statistics and deliberately ignoring these facts. The nutcase Guy White and his ilk quickly comes to one’s mind.
Keep it up, Abagond!
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With regard to:
“Nobody is forcing these men to commit crime. Let’s face that getting involved in crime is a personal decision”
What most matters is that law abiding citizens be kept safe from criminals”
It need not be so, societal conditions can ‘force’ people to crime.
Furthermore it can also be a result of the judicial system.
As we can see from the UK.
“Research by the Crown Prosecution Service suggests a tendency for the police to bring charges against black defendants with weaker evidence. Adult male black defendants are more likely to be send to custody than white defendants and Asian defendants and also likely to be given substantially longer sentences”.
I think what is worrying are stats like these for ‘minority’ groups across the world:
Canada – Native Canadian
http://www.oci-bec.gc.ca/rpt/annrpt/annrpt20052006info-eng.aspx
Australia – Aborigines
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/law/aboriginal-prison-rates.html
New Zealand – Maoris
Click to access hauora_chapter15_web.pdf
France – Arabs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802560.html
UK – Blacks & Indians
Click to access Facts%20and%20Figures.pdf
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well you know what drugs abusers of crack get 18 years for every one year of a cocaine abuser…and crack is cheaper, so more blacks use it than whites drug abusers…isn’t that ridiculous. P.S. I don’t believe drug addicts should be imprisoned…. drug abuse is a health issue. Why is it easier to get drug than drug treatment in the US???
good post, now all you gotta do is talk about black women in prison
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http://criminaljustice.change.org/blog/view/crack-cocaine_disparity_now_15th_as_racist_as_before
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can you do a post at a later date about rape of black women and the skewed imprison rate??
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/1998/09/cov_01feature.html
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Historical business notes.
In the early 1950’s many series of corporate conferences were held in many major American cities. One of the primary subjects discussed was “Urban Gentrification” While strategizing on this subject many key points of interest began to surface. Some corporate numbers pushers presented some very interesting social engineering concepts. At one special conference an amazing business plan was drawn up that exceeded any other business plan known or tried since. The American management company to run the prison systems were carefully being assembled. Since there was no real plan to initiate a good plan to address major unemployment in the inner cities at the time, the intended incarceration of unemployed minority males seemed to serve this plan in a very perfect way. In fact, the whole idea was more than ingenius. Unemployment in urban areas was made to order to help to start the building of such a massive and long term business plan. The plan itself was not based on 5 years or 10 years or even 50 years. It was based on very concrete physcological and behavioral analysis data taken during the 1920’s, 1930’s and 1940’s behavioral science projects and their collective results taken from group case studies of African americans living in Harlem, Detroit, Chicago and many other major cities. This essential information allowed the creators to begin to assemble a masterful plan which included selective stradegies that would propel and excelerate inner city crime to a human incident level never before seen in the history of modern civilization. The beauty of the plan was its ability to methodically introduce its application in a very suttle and unassuming fashion thru social habits and customs studied and documented by the creators for the sole purpose of profit thru economic exploitation of African americans living in the inner cities of the U.S. There are very good reasons why people are allowed to sell pistols, rifles, and all sorts of automatic weapons out of the trunks of their cars in the inner cities. There is also a reason why illegal and lethal drugs are systematically readily available to be distributed and sold in urban areas in America. These allowances are no accident. The intended results are constantly viewed on the evening news shows at 6:00 pm everyday of every week. African american women suffer more than any other ethnic group from this intended and directed assult on the young men in their age group. This is no accident. When I first started to travel to many major American cities in the 1980’s, I imediately noticed the similarities of all of the cities that I visited. High crime rates in ever city I went to started to make me think. These conditions are no accident. Finally, lets do some simple accounting math. If it cost any prison management company approx $2,500 to house, feed and cloth one prisoner, why do these same companies recieve any where from $8,500 to $35,000 a year from goverment and state funding to house,feed, and cloth the same prisoner ? Because it is extemely profitable. Would you invest $2,500 if I told you would recieve anywhere from $8,500 to $35,000 at the end of one year ? With a return like that, I bet you would send me more than $2,500, wouldnt you ? I am explaining all of this to you in hopes of you being able to comprehend just a few realities of our society. These conditions are no accident. It is intentional and on purpose. Above all, it is a very, very serious business reality. this business is only concerned about huge profits and greed. Nothing personal. I just thought you should know.
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The Anslinger tax act of 1937, was introduced by Anslinger to make drugs like cocaine and heroin illegal. They decided to add marijana because of Roburt Hursts deep investment in the timber industry to make paper. Hemp makes fantastic paper so he wanted to have it outlawed also.
They found that they could go a long way to vilifying it by using Mexicans and black people as the typical users. And used it as a campain to discriminate agaisnt these people.
I totaly agree with Peanut, drugs should be a social issue not a judicial prison issue.
The cost of jailing someone for the use , or dealing, of pot is absurd.
I actualy beleive the world will be in chaos and lost until they can really confront the drug issues the right way
And there are huge forces in play that dont want it legalised becuse they are getting the payoffs
The American economy could totaly be turned around by legalising marijuana……I mean totaly, the jobs, the income, the tax revenue, it would all change everthing that got destroyed by the horrible leaders who destroyed the country 9 years ago.
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some very informative information on the big conundrum; why marijauna is illegal? and why it affects minorities , its a shame really.
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
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Sorry Abagond:
If Black men are intelligent then they will stop dealing in drugs period. If they’ve figured out that White men do the same and are not punished, then guess what? Stop doing something that you know will put you in jail.
In other words, as a Black man, use your God-given intelligence to uplift society instead of engaging in illegal activities.
We all know that Whites are hypocrites and treat their own differently. That’s not the issue. The issue is for Blacks to have figured that out A LONG TIME AGO, and therefore not commit crimes that can LAND YOUR BEHIND IN JAIL!!
I will not be going to jail for any crime — don’t really care if Whites can commit a crime and get lesser sentences or no punishment at all. I LOVE MY FREEDOM.
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Please, do not condemn yourself by your own words, now or in the future.
“I will not be going to jail for any crime — don’t really care if Whites can commit a crime and get lesser sentences or no punishment at all. I LOVE MY FREEDOM”.
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That’s what perfect people do.
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Reply to Patrica Kayden
Isn’t it funny, when proabition was in place in the 1920’s, Joe Kennedy senior could make a financial empire out of an illegal substance called whiskey and booze. Maybe one day in the near future an African american ex-drug dealer will promote his son’s political ambitions to the highest levels of political offices. I love the good old american way. Hope it works out as well for the drug pushers as it did for the Kennedy family. All things taken into consideration as they are. If you really want to learn how to enslave millions of people with drugs. Go and google “The Boxer Rebellion.” Read this chilling account of how Great Britian attempted to enslave China with drugs in the early 1900’s. The Brits are the supreme masters of these kind of sneaky techniques. God bless Great Britian and the Karma that they have earned over the last 1000 years.
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Thanks for the Post. I honestly don’t expect much compassion for Black men in America. Black men are the walking boogie men. lol
Whenever anybody brings up these facts about the unfair practices of the CJS. People get in a tizzy about whether these guys are really criminals.
I think people are missing the point. It’s not to say that 90% of Black men in jail are innocent. The point is that White “Criminals” are still walking the streets. For doing the same crimes that Black “criminals” have been found guilty of.
While I do feel a lot of this has to do with poverty, and the inability to afford a proper defense. It becomes a self-fulling prophecy. You go to jail/prison. You lose an ability to find easy work. Thus leading to more crime. You lose the right to vote. Thus taking away your ability to change these laws.
But the real, real truth of the matter is that these guys are reproducing. These guys are still finding women to have kids with. Thus leaving homes without a father. Then again, repeating the same cycle for the future.
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Patricia Kayden,
“If Black men are intelligent then they will stop dealing in drugs period. If they’ve figured out that White men do the same and are not punished, then guess what? Stop doing something that you know will put you in jail.
We all know that Whites are hypocrites and treat their own differently. That’s not the issue. The issue is for Blacks to have figured that out A LONG TIME AGO, and therefore not commit crimes that can LAND YOUR BEHIND IN JAIL!!”
I agree. I always tell any black boys/men I know that might be veering down the wrong path to pull themselves together. Black males just do not have the option of engaging in illegal activities and other suspicious behavior. Don’t be the co-conspirator in your own downfall. Stop giving whites reasons and statistics.
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So you want 13 -18 year old Black boys to not behave as immature adolescent kids. But you have no problem with 13 -18 white boys doing whatever they want without consequence?
All kids make mistakes. I highly doubt anybody posting here was a perfect angel.
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joe Clyde,
“So you want 13 -18 year old Black boys to not behave as immature adolescent kids.But you have no problem with 13 -18 white boys doing whatever they want without consequence?”
…Why are you preuming that being a teenager must involve engaging in illegal activities? It most certainly does not have to, by any means.
“All kids make mistakes. I highly doubt anybody posting here was a perfect angel.”
That’s the kind of mindset — “All people/kids/etc make mistakes” that causes black men to end up in prison or dead. Do you think the judge is saying “All people make mistakes, you’re okay!” when a black male is in front of them? This is reality; people will be held accountable for their actions.
No one is saying it’s fair or right and no one is saying that people should simply accept it. But it’s reality and while we’re living in reality, we need to deal with reality.
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“Why are you preuming that being a teenager must involve engaging in illegal activities?”
“But it’s reality and while we’re living in reality, we need to deal with reality.”
You answered your own question.
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Look Joe, I’ve worked with adolescents for almost half of my life. And obviously, I was one at some point. Being an adolescent does not mean one has to do drugs and rob people. I don’t know what kind of world you’ve been living in that requires such to be the case.
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I never said that being an adolescent automatically means you will do criminal things.
But let’s be honest. We don’t live in Mayberry. With 24/7 violence on TV/Video Games. Add to that hormones, and peer pressure. 13-18 years are going to make some mistakes.
Some kids get a slap on the wrist, and a ruffling of the hair. Others get sent to Juvi, and their lives are over. I grew up in Long Island, and saw this first hand.
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“And in most cases we are not even talking about the hard stuff, like heroin, crack or cocaine, but marijuana – weed!!!”
Can we get a further break down on this? I have a hard time believing most people in prison are there for possessing marijuana.
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Joe, I’ve known plenty of black males from rough areas who didn’t end up juvenile delinquents. They were exposed to the same influences as other boys. What do you think made the difference in their lives? People who taught them the correct way; who lead by example (and self-motivation).
I’m not in the business of giving people excuses for poor behavior. You can give as many reasons as you would like (not that I believe for one second that video games and peer pressure are the cause of the black prison rate). But at the end of the day, no one cares. Harsh, but truth.
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I already know that people don’t care about Black males in America. I said that in my first post.
I don’t believe you are trying to comprehend anything I am saying because of your own issues with Black men. That is a personal issue.
I clearly stated what I had to say. I was not excusing anyone. As I clearly said in my first post. What I was talking about was the inequality of the “criminals” in the CJS.
If you do the crime. You do the crime. Especially if you are Black.
Black men are no more violent than any other race of men. But that is what I believe. I’m sure many BW, WM, and others believe different.
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Joe Clyde,
“I already know that people don’t care about Black males in America. I said that in my first post.
I don’t believe you are trying to comprehend anything I am saying because of your own issues with Black men. That is a personal issue.”
*falls on the floor laughing*
Clearly you’ve read none of my other comments on this blog. I have no issues with black men. Your psychic skills need an overhaul.
“Everyone is against the black male” is a convenient mindset to ensure that black men are never held responsible for any misdoings. I know this game: any time someone says something about black men that isn’t a verbal pat on the back, you can just pull out the “Black Male: Public Enemy #1” trump card to render it invalid and cease all discussion. Oh, please.
“If you do the crime. You do the crime. Especially if you are Black.”
My point exactly.
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Funny but you seem to have no opinion on White kids basically getting off for doing the same crime. Or is your sharp tongue tied for white criminals?
Again, I stated in my first post. That it has nothing to do with Black men not being criminals.
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Joe, read my past comments for my thoughts on white crime. I’ve mentioned at least a few times in separate posts how whites I know got off with a slap on the wrist for the same crimes that blacks got locked up for. In fact, I acknowledged that in my first comment on this post where I agreed with Patricia Kayden. You were just too busy with the black male victim mentality to notice.
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So because I point out the truth about Black Male incarceration.
That means I have a victim mentality?
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“Reginald Reply to Patrica Kayden
“Read this chilling account of how Great Britian attempted to enslave China with drugs in the early 1900′s. The Brits are the supreme masters of these kind of sneaky techniques. God bless Great Britian and the Karma that they have earned over the last 1000 years”
Just curious Reginald:
Why were the Chinese smart enough not to fall into the trap that Great Britain set for them, but Black males are too dumb not to fall for the “traps” that Whites set for them?
Why do Black males commit crimes THAT THEY KNOW DARN WELL WILL LEAD TO THEIR INCARCERATION, but other races (some of whom are hated just as much by Whites) do not do so?
Are Black men really really dumb? Or are they so greedy that they cannot avoid commiting stupid crimes that they know full well will lead to jail terms.
And to Joe Clyde:
I don’t sit around crying for Black men. Unless they’re like Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King, who I consider to be Black men who uplift their communities and add something positive to society.
Wonder why Black women are not falling over themselves to be incarcerated for foolishness at extremely high rates like Black men.
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“Wonder why Black women are not falling over themselves to be incarcerated for foolishness at extremely high rates like Black men.”
Actually you should look it up. Black women get incarcerated at a higher rate than white men. But I guess you shouldn’t care about that either. lol
You women are a trip.
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“Actually you should look it up. Black women get incarcerated at a higher rate than white men. But I guess you shouldn’t care about that either.”
Um, really? In what country? Not in the good ol’ US of A:
http://www.project.org/info.php?recordID=174
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I guess it depends on where you are looking.
But if you want to believe Black women, and everybody else in America are these super law abiding citizens. But for some strange reason. Only Black men seem to be incapable of following the rules.
It’s a free country. Do as you please. lol
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Joe, the statistics I posted were taken from the U.S. Department of Justice, i.e. the law itself. I think their stats are more credible than a wikipedia graph from who knows where. Also, even the graph you posted has white men incarcerated at a higher rate than black women. Interesting how a slanted viewpoint can make you see things that aren’t there.
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Let’s look at the stats. You cannot compare against Genders. Women in general are less violent than men. Even you would have to agree with that. So to say Why Black women do X or Black men do Y. Is ridiculous.
Do you honest believe that Black women are 3x, 4x, etc. more criminally minded than white women? I don’t care which graph you show. White women incarceration rates are damn near zero. So are they the idol citizens in America?
Also that being said. Black women and White men are damn near equal?? Something just isn’t right in the water.
But of course you see nothing wrong with that either.
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Joe/maxcutus/whomever, you need to get a grip. I mean no offense, but you seem near hysterical in your attempts. Your straw men and red herrings are not intriguing.
I dislike endless back-and-forths, so I’ll call it quits now that it’s obvious you have nothing else to add. This discussion wasn’t completely worthless though, I hope. Have a nice day. 🙂
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I’m done with this also.
But seriously. Whenever a Black male speaks his mind. Black women have something negative to say. The situation with Black men and incarceration is not “Black/White” Black men are not Dumb as the other poster was trying to imply. The scales are tipped.
What euro-centric Black women think about the situation because we have heard it all before.
I’m glad he posted the article. I said my two cents, and I will leave it at that. Jeez
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With regard to:
I agree. I always tell any black boys/men I know that might be veering down the wrong path to pull themselves together. Black males just do not have the option of engaging in illegal activities and other suspicious behavior. Don’t be the co-conspirator in your own downfall. Stop giving whites reasons and statistics
I have to say it sound like ‘blame the victim’ syndrome to me’.
There is a ‘war out there’ and unfortunately there will be causalties. I blame the system rather than the individuals or groups of individuals’ who get caught up in the system.
As we can see from the stats above there are alot of minorities apart from Black male in the U.S.
However, this is the nature of a system of oppression ie blame the victims, but do absolutely nothing to tackle and or fight the source of the problem.
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This should read:
“As we can see from the stats above there are alot of minorities apart from Black male in the U.S. We see from the statistics this a global phenomena. And to put it very simply those who are the ‘oppressors’ because they control the ‘state apparatus’ have its victims at a gross disadvantage.
However, there will be those who never see it this way, nor can they, because they are too rewarded by a system, they do not wish to criticise, and/or do anything about.
Please modify accordingly Abagond, thanks!!
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http://www.nojailforpot.com/
somebody asked for insight to how many people are jailed for pot
its ridiculas for people to go for jail for marijuana
the laws are bad and need to be changed, dotors reccoment it to patients now in California . If it was dangerous , they couldnt do that.
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With regard to:
“I don’t sit around crying for Black men. Unless they’re like Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King, who I consider to be Black men who uplift their communities and add something positive to society”
From my humble perspective. I think this is being ‘politically niave’, since what falls Black men today can easily befall Black women at any given moment in time in the future. And even more so in what is essentially a male-dominated society (patriarchy).
As Fanon forewarned just becasue you cannot see the gas-chambers. It does not mean they are not being built on the horizons
As for Mandela, there are many radicals who feels he has actually done Black people and his country a great dis-service, but that is yet another topic perhaps for another time.
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As I read the comments posted, I have to shake my head. I was employed at a correctional facility for 2 years and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt must of the black inmates were not in there for drug possession. I took the time to read some of the files on many of the inmates and learn that many were in due to violence against women and children. The number of sexual crimes against children was staggering. I honestly thought that molestation was a white man’s crime. WRONG. We as blacks have got to stop with the lies and focus of keeping these animals out of our neighborhoods away from our children. If you don’t believe, please ask someone who work in the system for clarification.
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so sorry for the sentence fragments and incorrect words
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With regard to:
“I honestly thought that molestation was a white man’s crime. WRONG”.
This topic has already been discussed elsewhere on this blog. One of the commentators who has posted here was was kind enough to show that:
“White inmates were nearly three times more likely to have victimized a child than black inmates.”
http://ezfame.com/tag/pedophiles/ “
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This shouldn’t descend into black women bashing black men when they voice their opinion on the matter. I’d tell any black man the same thing I’d say to my brother, and that is NEVER give authorities ANY excuse to lock you up. IE do not dabble in drugs period!
Drugs are perceived to be cultural within the Afro Caribbean community( Jamaicans esp), whereas the white community uses recreationally, that could account for the laissez faire attitude to clamping down on white people.
I’ve noticed a surge in police presence, sniffer dogs et al, in some London tube stations where black youths are most likely to be. It never ceases to amaze me that out of the masses pouring out of the stations it’s black men that are pulled over, give or take some ’emo’ white types. Now unless those darned dogs are racist as hell (lol) they’re doing what they’re trained to do, sniff out drugs.
Profiling black men is only one factor.
Perhaps time to do a post on why black men use drugs in such high numbers, ie society lets em down, growing up poor, drugs = easy money etc etc
It will be unlike the white prism of drugs rock’n roll, middle class kid/bored housewife rebelling with cocaine, city banker’s cocaine binges in high pressure job, junkie etc, ie people you want to lend a sympathetic ear to.
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I am afraid it has descended into a male v female debate.
However, I would take it that bit further and say it is a Black female supporting the racist system, due to what I refer to as ‘politically niave’, here at least against Black males incarcarated.
There may well be some who may choose to look at it another way and call it ‘blame the victim’ syndrome.
Can I add that it is young Black males (around 16-23) the police target as opposed to ‘men’.
However, I think police in London are diversifying their search, in particular of ALL young males as opposed to Black males. Personally I think they are criminalising most young males and females to a lesser extent.
Personally I think this is a strategic move that goes back to problems in the 1970/80s.
Where the police have targeted adults is in their ‘random stop and search’ of car vehicles
Personally I think this is a strategic move that goes back to problems in the 1970s/80s.
Finally the perception that drugs is linked to Jamaican is not an accurate reading of the situation and is a racist stereotype. Simply because no police officer can differentiate between a Jamaican and anyone else from the other Caribbean islands as well as for parts of Africa too.
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However, this is the nature of a system of oppression ie blame the victims, but do absolutely nothing to tackle and or fight the source of the problem.
Exactly. What is being done to tackle the symptoms? Telling some teenager to smarten up or pull themselves up, may work for some, but not most and I am not referring solely to those who engage in criminal activities. Dope dealing is a business. The dealers, franchisees if you wish. The average street dealer is nothing but bullet fodder. They are not going to use some white kid as they are not expendable as black kids are. The distributors live in communities divorced from the street level dealers. If one goes down, there is always another to take their place. Sort of like sweat shop workers. Oh, if you are poor and white, your screwed also.
For every black criminal who is incarcerated, there is many more white ones walking free, or in rehab, as the notion here is that they don’t want to ‘destroy’ a promising young person’s life. Many of these young people will commit many more crimes before they are eventually incarcerated for them. They are given many chances, however the young black man isn’t. I am referring to white middle to upper-class kids. Michael Douglas’ son would serve as an example. After years of rehab, he finally ended up in prison for drug dealing. He got a 5 year sentence and was sent to a minimum security prison almost immediately:
As for blacks being incarcerated for sex crimes, most of the sex offenders I have come across are white. Of course there are black sex offenders as there are other sex offenders from other ethnic/racial groups. But the overwhelming majority are, were white. Most of the black offenders I have come across are in prison for drug-related crimes. I am referring to both charged and convicted inmates.
@J:
In Canada for the most part, race statistics are not taken. When they are, it is not to prove that one group is more criminally inclined than another, but to prove that there are systemic reasons for this, such as racial profiling etc. At least that’s the reasons given.
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Thanks Herneith, This is a more enlightened approach by Canada.
In the UK they suggest they collect and such data for statistical purposes but personally I think they are collecting for disingenuous purpose.
With regard to the issue of drugs, and I will speak from my experience(s).
The police do not seem that interested in targetting the middle men and/or the upper tier drug smugglers and users.
Rather they target the users at the very end of the chain, and then justify to a ‘gullible’ public that their main aim is to protect the rise of drugs etc.
And even in some instances it is a known fact that the police also help to put drugs on the street.
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And this reminds me of:
Malcolm X [Speech before founding rally of OAAU, June 28, 1964]
“When a person is a drug addict, he’s not the criminal; he’s a victim of the criminal. The criminal is the man downtown who brings the drug into the country. Blacks can’t bring drugs into this country. You don’t have any boats. You don’t have any airplanes. You don’t have any diplomatic immunity. It is not you who is responsible for bringing in drugs. You’re just a little tool that is used by the man downtown. The man that controls the drug traffic sits in city hall or he sits in the state house”.
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How about locking up all the clowns who created the economic meltdown? Oh, I forgot, they ain’t criminals! they are bankers, mortgage brokers, politicians, lobbyists and such. My bad!
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^^^^^^^^^
They are shining models for our society! No wonder there are so many crooks on the loose. With ‘role-models’ like these who needs bad influences?
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These are the ‘legal crooks’ who most of the public are not aware off, or cannot see, but the ‘illegal crooks’ (ie at the other end of the spectrum) they can blame for all the ills of society.
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Esme
“As I read the comments posted, I have to shake my head. I was employed at a correctional facility for 2 years and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt must of the black inmates were not in there for drug possession. I took the time to read some of the files on many of the inmates and learn that many were in due to violence against women and children. The number of sexual crimes against children was staggering. I honestly thought that molestation was a white man’s crime. WRONG. We as blacks have got to stop with the lies and focus of keeping these animals out of our neighborhoods away from our children. If you don’t believe, please ask someone who work in the system for clarification.”
Thank you Esme. I was wondering about Abagond’s claim that most Black males are imprisoned for drug dealing.
Many more Black men need to be incarcerated for violence against women and children — rape, child abuse, etc.
No sympathy from me whatsoever for incarcerated Black men. You do the crime, expect to do the time. Don’t boohoo about racial disparities — stop committing crimes and then you don’t have to worry about racial disparities.
Nuff said.
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With regard to:
Many more Black men need to be incarcerated for violence against women and children — rape, child abuse, etc.
Here we see, blame ‘Black males’ and not any reference to
apportioning blame or anger to a system that allows Black males to go free, if what is being suggested here is correct.
Off course this ‘system’ but members of the Black race, here read Black men.
I am reminded of Fanon and Black Skins White Masks
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oops this should read
“Off course this system remains free of this but apportion blame to the Black race, here read Black men
I am reminded of Fanon and Black Skins White Masks
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Reply to Patrica Kayden
Hello Patrica. I was so pleased to hear you respond. I really appreciate how defensive some people get when someone reaches back into the deep dark recesses of their past misdeeds and gently stirs the historical pot of certain peoples injustices. It must really be painful to have to face some responsibility or at least accept a more truthful reassesment of lies and falsehoods that were so readily distributed as the truth. We now live in a international electronic society that has the ability to see into the past and the future. It is much harder now to trick and fool human minds into believing that some war that a politician is in favor of should be fought for the sake of liberty and justice. Now all of us have access to world information within seconds. Many of us can now research the real reasons behind why that politician really wants to invade that country in the name of liberty and justice. The days of being able to manipulate human minds are now protected by a Collective Consciousness that will no longer allow such abuses without revealing their hidden agendas as well. We are all connected to it. I will now answer some of your questions. #1 “Why were the Chinese smart enough not to fall into the trap that Great Britian had set for them?” Unfortunately, the Chinese were not smart enough to avoid the trap, which is why the Boxer Rebellion became necessary. #2 Most black males incarcerated are usually products of an impoverished childhood and adolescent existance, not unlike young chinese males during the boxer rebellion. Here are some science facts that will help you to understand exactly what the real problem is. For almost 5 thousand years it has been general knowledge that males are far more violent than females. The reason being attributed to testosterone levels of a much higher level in males. This harmone can wreck havoc in an unguided young males life if not monitored or channeled correctly. Military leaders have known this for thousands of years, which is why young males between the ages of 5 years to 25 years were most desirable to armys from Sparta (ancient greece) to now. Enviormental conditions actually burns the behavior pattern (good or bad) into a young males memory. Example: When a young Spartan male was taken from his mother at age 5 he was introduced into a training regiment that relied almost extensively on the most inhumane acts intentionally exposing him to create enormous amounts of hatred and violence. His instructors would increase his exposure to even higher levels of torment mixed with carefully orchestrated military training which turned him into the most ruthless Warrior of his day. Second to none. That is why 300 Spartans could hold back 500,000 Persian soldiers at Thermopoly. The Persians did not know it, but they were fighting human animals, sort of like the human animals that are created in all of the worlds ghettos and slums of today. Did you ever wonder why all of the world champion fighters are all from slums and ghettos ? They all come from underprivledged beginnings which guarantee their eventual rise from the slums or poverty to champions of the fighting world. This is also no accident. Nature makes sure that only the fittest survive in enviorments like this. Most black males raised in the slums and ghettos of America exhibit the same exact behavior as young Spartan warriors of 5000 years ago. Yes their behavior can be ruthless and heartless. Just like young Spartan males of ancient Greece. Question #3 “Are black males dumb etc… ? No they are not. It takes an enormous amount of intelligence to survive the hood. If you ever watched the movie”Gangs of New York” you will see how well hollywood had captured a brief moment in american history that was quite revealing. One thing that I did notice in the movie, had to do with how well the police department protected the citizens, even though some of them were depicted as the worst that criminal behavior could exhibit. Unlike today, when a young black male is thrown into jail for a lot less then what was suggested in the movie by comparison to their young Irish american counterparts. Seems like people of other races can always get away with a lot more than young black males can today. Neurological evidence shows that the decision making part of the brain which is located in the frontal lobes of the brain is responsible for making all of our decisions. Unfortunately, this part of the brain does not finish its evolutional maturity until we are 25 years of age. Which is why we made such stupid decisions earlier in our lives. Yes, young black males also fall prey to these most human conditions also. Are young black males dumb when they participate in a crime that they know will send them to jail ? I would like to ask them the same question when they reach 30 years of age ? Maybe we should insert a mature brain into their heads on the day of their birth. Young black males are not exempt from basic laws of nature. We better all understand one important thing about their behavior. If we continue to allow poverty levels in this country to get worst, one of the end results will surley be the un-intentional creation of some of the most ruthless and cruel young Spartan like criminal warriors that the world has ever seen. You can bet that they won’t all be young black males either, but far worst than anyone can imagine. Trying to incarcerate them will probably give the penal system endless nightmares. Instead of asking how dumb young black men are, in many cases we better hope they don’t get smarter at criminal endevours that some of them have obviously already mastered. Hopefully some of these answers will at least be pondered by those that read them. The problem is far more complicated than we may care to admit. Patrica Kayden, there is a lot more to it than your questions can even hope to examine. Your questions are just the tip of the perverbial iceberg. Here is a question for you Patrica. Young men in every culture known to man have exibited ruthless behavior patterns at one time or another. Why is it when young black males exibit the exact same behavior, everyone wants to now know why ? Could you possibly answer this question for me, I am at a lost for an answer. As a black male, I am just not feeling very smart as of late.
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In relation to the statement:
“It is much harder now to trick and fool human minds into believing that some war that a politician is in favor of should be fought for the sake of liberty and justice. Now all of us have access to world information within seconds”.
Nothing could be more further away from the truth, and I have to disagree with what is being said here on a fundamental level that people either have the ability to
a. think for themselves – as an individual
b. ‘think for themselves’ on a level of ‘race consciousness’ – as a member of a race
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So I guess these thugs shouldn’t be incarcerated because they’re Blacks and victims of racism?
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Brutal_Beating_Caught_on_Camera_Washington_DC.html
The scary thing about this story is that the victim did not report the crime to the police, which means the thugs were free to continue their crime spree.
I really don’t know why Dr. King is used for this story — he was not a criminal. He was a freedom fighter and not in any way related to the post.
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And the question which all those who are blaming or predominantly the incarcarated males. Then how comes the same thing is replicated for peoples of color vis-avis White societies in disparate places across the world??
As I said earlier the system rewards these individuals too much that they are unwilling to criticise the very system as teh source of the problem.
A point touched upon again by Malcolm X on the difference between the ‘House Negro’ and the ‘Field Negro’??
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Well I’m a black woman but I gotta say, the people in here saying “just don’t do the crime even if the justice system is racist” sound A LOT like the people who blamed lynching victims during Jim Crow. This is like saying “you shouldn’t have drunk outta that water fountain if you didn’t want a beating, it doesn’t matter if white people can do whatever they want” or “you should have known better than to look at a white woman, even though white men can rape black women with impunity”. Or it’s like the “separate but equal” schools, “you should have been smarter even though your textbooks are two decades old and your schools are falling apart”.
The current criminal justice system is absolutely JUST LIKE Jim Crow. Some things are a crime for black people and are not a crime for white people. It’s as simple as that. So for all those saying “just don’t do the crime”, well, it’s not always a crime. The fact is that black people are more likely to be jailed than white people for doing the same exact thing.
The problem is that many people (including a lot of black people who have been infected with self-racism) think that there is something particularly criminal or stupid about black men. You see it in this thread. Just like when black kids “failed” at their terrible schools, it must be because they were just dumber. Black man looking at a white woman? He’s an animal. Black person drinking at the wrong water fountain? Crazy and dirty. The rules of the game never change.
I find Mira’s perspective interesting because she comes from a nation in which smoking pot is just a recreational thing to do. Well Mira, in America, if you are black and you have pot, you will become a member of the criminal justice system. And God forbid you do it again, because you’ll be a felon and your life ruined, even if you’re a teenager. This applies to every crime no matter what it is, the consequences will be much harsher if your skin is darker. What we end up with is a system where what is a crime for some is not a crime for others. A separate system of justice. In other words, Jim Crow. And that is no justice system at all.
So for those excusing this or blaming black men, what you are saying is that black men don’t deserve an equal shot at justice. And why is that? Are they not human?
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Sorry to double-post, but I also have to say that even if you try to be a law-abiding citizen, the racist criminal justice system will have an impact on you. My brother is a young black man, law-abiding, educated, nice dresser, gainfully employed. But he can’t drive in his car without fearing harassment by police. He can’t be in the wrong neighborhood. He can’t even pursue his hobby of train-watching (the cops are always stopping by to question him, though white men can watch trains all day long since it’s not a crime). And his car has to be in perfect condition, and he better not go over the speed limit at all. And he better stay out of the neighborhood in which he grew up (and where his family lives still), because black men in this neighborhood are automatically suspicious.
So my brother gets scared. And then he gets angry. And then he’s another “angry black man” and now he REALLY better be careful. How can you be a man when society treats you like an animal? And we wonder why there’s a crisis.
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Thank you, Danila.
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@Danila
Excellent post. You give me hope for a lot of Black women.
“So for those excusing this or blaming black men, what you are saying is that black men don’t deserve an equal shot at justice. And why is that? Are they not human?”
Gold Star. You FINALLY get it!!!
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With regard to:
“Excellent post. You give me hope for a lot of Black women”.
Personally it should not have to be an issue to give credit to Black women.
What some of us seem to forget that just because you are Black it does NOT mean ‘you are down with the ‘program’, ie the ‘Black Devil’ analogy
There are some of us whether male or female who are so caught up in ‘Black Skin White Mask’ syndrome that we will blame the ‘victims’, rather than the ‘oppressors’. Some will be more innocent, whilst others insidious. Either way the result and the outcomes are the same
And finally where some of us cannot blame the ‘victims’, we find all sorts of ‘rationalisations’ to defend or justify the oppressor/system – but NEVER can any blame be apportioned.
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J,
“I have to say it sound like ‘blame the victim’ syndrome to me’.
There is a ‘war out there’ and unfortunately there will be causalties. I blame the system rather than the individuals or groups of individuals’ who get caught up in the system.”
Notice I never “blamed the victim.” You and Joe Clyde need to stop putting words in my mouth and actually read what I said. I never blamed black males for anything. I spoke to how to prevent the incarceration of black males. Before they become victims.
“However, this is the nature of a system of oppression ie blame the victims, but do absolutely nothing to tackle and or fight the source of the problem.”
And what is your brilliant solution? Speaking about it on a blog? Whites have been racist since the word race gained an entry in the dictionary. We can fight against racism, but we also have to learn to take preventative measures. Those are not mutually exclusive.
I pose the same question to others: What is your brilliant solution? So far I have seen no viable answers. Whining and wringing of hands about the “system” isn’t going to stop 1/3 of black males from going to prison and being executed at 5 times the rate of white males.
“Can I add that it is young Black males (around 16-23) the police target as opposed to ‘men’.”
This another half-truth (along with the idea of this post that most black men are in prison for weed — false). While the police definitely do target young males, a good portion of adult black males are in prison (1 out of every 20).
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I agree that it shouldn’t be about black women. And also, there are plenty of black men who buy into harmful stereotypes about black women, so if we are guilty then so are they. But it’s much easier to blame the victims so I agree with J, I won’t be doing it. I blame the system.
And it is the same system that is failing black women. Yes, we are preyed upon, used, abused, raped. We are killed, we go missing. And it’s usually black men who do it, although quite frankly this is the case with most crime. White men perpetrate against white women just the same. 1/3rd of all female murder victims are killed by a partner.
But here’s the difference. Just like the justice system doesn’t exist to serve black men, it doesn’t exist to provide justice for black women! We’re not even women, how can we be victimized, that’s what they say. We can be raped with impunity. We can go missing and no one will care, no matter if the woman was a beautiful college student with her whole life ahead of her, if she is black then who cares.
You let me know when a little blonde girl with pigtails is set on fire and shot in a police raid!
I feel the anger some black women have toward black men, because we as women have to deal with their sexism on top of racism. But I’m saying that’s all part of the same system. If there isn’t any justice for them, there certainly won’t be any for us.
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Esme,
“As I read the comments posted, I have to shake my head. I was employed at a correctional facility for 2 years and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt must of the black inmates were not in there for drug possession. I took the time to read some of the files on many of the inmates and learn that many were in due to violence against women and children. The number of sexual crimes against children was staggering. I honestly thought that molestation was a white man’s crime. WRONG.”
There are far and away more white men in prison for molestation than black men, so you were right the first time. It may have been the case at your facility that more black men were there for sexual crimes against children, but the statistics don’t bear that out.
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[b]We can fight against racism, but we also have to learn to take preventative measures. Those are not mutually exclusive.[/b]
Hey Natasha, I agree with you. We have to do what we can. But I still think the problem is racism. I mean, there is a wider problem out there, and that is the violence and oppression that has plagued the human race ever since we fell. So if I were looking at an individual who committed a crime, then yeah I’d agree that they should focus on getting themselves together.
But you know what? I think we should try to do something about the racism we [b]can[/b] fight…the self-hatred. B lack people think they’re worthless, then some of them will act without dignity.
We need to be neither villains nor victims. The victim mentality has not served us well. It has torn apart our sense of community and weakened us. Our civil rights leaders did not talk about being victims, but about being strong.
But acting like racism ain’t no thang and we just have to be “smarter” is asking people to buy into a false reality. And that serves white people, it does not serve us.
bell hooks has a book called “Killing Rage: Ending Racism” that is really good and really on point about this topic. She often writes about the anger of black men. The pain and self-destruction of people betrayed and hurt. In the chapter “refusing to be a victim” she discusses how victimhood has diminished the struggle for civil rights and serves the interests of whites.
Whether it’s the conservative whites who see us as criminal and immoral villains who won’t “take responsibility” or the liberal whites who see us as weak, pathetic victims, either way if we play into the rhetoric we buy into racism. But that doesn’t mean we can’t talk about the world as it actually is. The criminal “justice” system is a tool used by a racist country to maintain racial stratification.
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Damila,
“Well I’m a black woman but I gotta say, the people in here saying “just don’t do the crime even if the justice system is racist” sound A LOT like the people who blamed lynching victims during Jim Crow. This is like saying “you shouldn’t have drunk outta that water fountain if you didn’t want a beating, it doesn’t matter if white people can do whatever they want” or “you should have known better than to look at a white woman, even though white men can rape black women with impunity”.
This is a false analogy.
Unfortunately for this comparison, drinking from a water fountain is not the same as robbery and assault. The latter causes clear damage, the former does not. So while the results may be the same (or not), the causes are not the same.
“So for all those saying “just don’t do the crime”, well, it’s not always a crime. The fact is that black people are more likely to be jailed than white people for doing the same exact thing.”
What does this even mean?
So because whites are not jailed for participating in the same crimes that blacks are, that makes them not crimes? Don’t fool yourself — much of what blacks are in prison for are indeed crimes. Acknowledging that they are crimes doesn’t negate the injustice of the consequences for various groups.
“I think we should try to do something about the racism we [b]can[/b] fight…the self-hatred. Black people think they’re worthless, then some of them will act without dignity.
We need to be neither villains nor victims. The victim mentality has not served us well. It has torn apart our sense of community and weakened us. Our civil rights leaders did not talk about being victims, but about being strong.”
Exactly.
So when I say, “Don’t be a victim, don’t fall into the traps that have been set for you,” I am a self-hater and aligning myself with white racists? What? GTFO. This whole blog post is simply fostering a victim mentality, so maybe you should speak to abagond about creating a sense of victimhood.
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Do NO crime…..YOU will serve NO time.
Bottom Line…………
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WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, INTERESTING ..very spiteful people in this world. stay safe
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Here are the actual statistics for incarceration rates in 2008.
Click to access p08.pdf
They actually show a DECLINE in the incarceration of Blacks.
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@Patricia
From your link
“Fewer blacks imprisoned for drug offenses
accounted for most of the decline in the
number of sentenced blacks in state prison”
What a coincidence.
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All this “do no crime and you will serve no time” stuff cracks me up, especially coming from black people. Sixty years ago interracial marriage, going to an all white school, and dining at all white restaurants was illegal. I wonder if black people back then were saying “do no crime and you will serve no time?” Some laws are meant to be broken, especially the unconstitutional ones like the drug laws.
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Ó Dochartaigh, read the first part of my post #86.
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Natasha
“Unfortunately for this comparison, drinking from a water fountain is not the same as robbery and assault. The latter causes clear damage, the former does not.”
Agreed, but it does compare to drug use. And as abagonds post implies this is about drugs. Murderers, rapists and violent criminals deserve incarceration, and at times the death penalty, I’m not arguing with anybody about that. But drug use and abuse should not be a crime, and it does compare to racists outdated crimes. Sharing a drinking fountain harms no one, smoking a joint harms no one. End of story.
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Response to Patricia Kayden
Patricia, I hear your anger. Let me assure you, we are all confused and bewildered by this strange behavior of young black males. I have read some incredible responses about this subject in the last few days. This problem did not create itself. What people fail to realise is we means us. We are part of a whole. We all are one Species. Our little reptilian brains are just beginning to look beyond the cause and effect of our independent careless actions in hopes of finding a real resolution to such a grave and complex problem.
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
Albert Einstein
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Ó Dochartaigh,
While I agree that the so-called “War on Drugs” is ridiculous, these aren’t all cases of someone minding their own business, smoking ganja on their front porch. I’m loathe to dish out statistics on what kinds of crimes are committed exactly (and be branded a black male basher) , but suffice it to say, drugs are not the biggest problem.
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Reply to “J”
A+B= ?
We define the outcome of this math problem. As we also define the outcome of our most serious challenges. When we learn to see beyond race a big part of the challenge will greatly diminish. Try not to resent the question because of how it is observed by your perception.
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Hi Reginald,
A + (B)lame the Black = BSWM (Black Skin White Mask – Frantz Fanon)
Is that the right answer to the algebraic equation??
On a serious note what is it that you disagree with that most of the masses (and here we are speaking of those pertaining to Blacks on this blog) will be caught up defending the ‘system’ instead of criticising and even more importantly attempting to resist it??
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Reply to Damila
Your responses are crystal clear and hit every nerve of truth. Some of your responses may be to much truth for the average person to digest. Keep writing what you see. Your views are very accurate.
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Natasha W.
I like your approach at attempting to deflect reproach against yourself but I am afraid you have more thinking to do from the very questions you ask me.
With regard to:
“Notice I never “blamed the victim.” You and Joe Clyde need to stop putting words in my mouth and actually read what I said. I never blamed black males for anything. I spoke to how to prevent the incarceration of black males. Before they become victims”.
You started with two words ‘I agree’ which can be interpreted as ‘blame the victim’. I would be justified in doing so, because you quoted P. Kayden at length..and said that you agree’ Furthermore you saw Black males as co-conspirators in their downfall, which gives further proof to ‘blame the victim syndrome’
Then you say:
“And what is your brilliant solution? Speaking about it on a blog? Whites have been racist since the word race gained an entry in the dictionary. We can fight against racism, but we also have to learn to take preventative measures. Those are not mutually exclusive.
I like your sarcasm in teh question – how do you know I do not have a brilliant idea. Be that as it may, do forgive me for living in the UK, so there is not much I can do. Perhaps you need to re-direct that question to yourself since you are in the US.
With regard to:
“I pose the same question to others: What is your brilliant solution? So far I have seen no viable answers. Whining and wringing of hands about the “system” isn’t going to stop 1/3 of black males from going to prison and being executed at 5 times the rate of white males”.
Again I refer you to my answer above. On a simplistic level it requires a total revolution of YOUR system.
And another thing at least observe who is the oppressor and who is the victim. And if you have nothing good to say about the ‘victims’ that you cannot apply to the oppressor, then it is best to say nothing at all.
You then go on to say:
“Can I add that it is young Black males (around 16-23) the police target as opposed to ‘men’.” [J]
This another half-truth (along with the idea of this post that most black men are in prison for weed — false). While the police definitely do target young males, a good portion of adult black males are in prison (1 out of every 20).
Are you aware that I was speaking to Merrimay aboutthe situation and not addressing you. This is my estimation of the London situation
As I said your questions raise more issues for you than they do for me. This sometimes what can happen when you give a knee-jerk response to a ‘truth’.
What I find interesting here is that I responded to what you said, that it sounded like blame the victim. All you had to do is respond and say is ‘No it was not meant that way’!!.
However, you duly went on to seek my other comments, and ‘shot yourself in the foot’.
Its one of the starngest phenomena individuals are ‘proud’ to be Black Skin White Mask in their orientation. However, when such thinking is pointed out specifically by a Black person, it usually creates ‘umbrage’
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I find it funny that the black man incarceration rate increased after the civil rights movement and you know it was done intentionally. blacks get their rights we gotta find another way to keep em down. And we don’t have any leaders to address these prejudices…and you know who was behind the drug situation in the bc. They allowed nicarguan druglords to sell their drugs into black neighborhoods in exchange for money to buy weapons…so they just dont’ give a damn about what happens to black people, that is evident.
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@Peanut,
Yes, Nicaraguan druglords forced Black males to sell drugs.
Yes, always find someone outside of the community to blame for the stupid behavior of Black males.
No, Black men are too weak and too dumb to figure out that selling drugs will PUT YOUR BEHIND IN JAIL.
I say the exact same thing to Black women who continue to have babies out of wedlock for deadbeat men. Nobody is forcing them to have these unwanted children.
Let’s take responsibility for our actions. PERIOD.
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With regard to:
“I say the exact same thing to Black women who continue to have babies out of wedlock for deadbeat men. Nobody is forcing them to have these unwanted children”.
So can I kindly enquire, what race of men are getting Black men married out of wedlock??
If the answer is Black males
Then we come back around to the issue of blaming black males once again, but this time via Black women who are supposedly ‘ignorant’.
Very strange!!
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That’s clever of me ha ha ha
This ought to read:
“So can I kindly enquire, what race of men are getting Black WO-men married out of wedlock??
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Must be having a bad hair day ha ha ha
I think I best cut n paste here to get this correct:
“I say the exact same thing to Black women who continue to have babies out of wedlock for deadbeat men”
Who are these ‘deadbeat men’ with regard to race??
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J,
“I like your approach at attempting to deflect reproach against yourself but I am afraid you have more thinking to do from the very questions you ask me.”
I can not deflect blame where there is none. You want to blame me for helping the black boys and men I know from veering off the right track? Go ahead. I’ll take that blame.
“You started with two words ‘I agree’ which can be interpreted as ‘blame the victim’. I would be justified in doing so, because you quoted P. Kayden at length..and said that you agree’ Furthermore you saw Black males as co-conspirators in their downfall, which gives further proof to ‘blame the victim syndrome’”
Notice that I didn’t agree with all of Patricia Kayden’s original statement. I cut out the parts that I did not agree with; her position is more extreme than mine.
And yes, if you do something that you know has a high probability of ruining your life, you are a co-conspirator in your own downfall. Don’t make black males out to be utterly helpless to the system. Unlike you, I give them more credit than that — I believe they can make the right choices when well-equipped.
“I like your sarcasm in teh question – how do you know I do not have a brilliant idea. Be that as it may, do forgive me for living in the UK, so there is not much I can do. Perhaps you need to re-direct that question to yourself since you are in the US.”
Umm, yeah, I’m still waiting for that brilliant solution. I know you have one! If you like in the UK, and you have no solutions for black men in the US, kindly mind your own business about what happens in the US. And don’t criticize my approach which has worked.
“As I said your questions raise more issues for you than they do for me. This sometimes what can happen when you give a knee-jerk response to a ‘truth’.”
J, you are a hypocrite of the highest order. And that is why all of your statements should be viewed with suspicion or disregard. My response was well thought-out; the only knee-jerk response here was yours, in your rush to relieve black men of all blame at any costs. I’ve noticed this is your M.O. Vindicate black men, while heaping criticism on black women. You and this Joe Clyde character, who I’ve seen on other blogs censuring black women, yet he wants to come here and play the victim and actually project his own doings on to them. You all are too transparent.
“What I find interesting here is that I responded to what you said, that it sounded like blame the victim. All you had to do is respond and say is ‘No it was not meant that way’!!.
However, you duly went on to seek my other comments, and ‘shot yourself in the foot’.”
Please tell me how I have shot myself in the foot. You are the one who saw fit to descend into ad hominems, so I gave it right back to you; don’t play dumb, if you are in fact playing, which your history on this blog hasn’t indicated.
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Reply to “J”
Ok “J”. I am going to try to answer your question.
For the last 30 or 40 years. We all have been carefully programmed by some very slick cold war technology employed by our media system and political representatives locally and nationally. It is really a lot more complicated than we know. If I want people to buy certain products, all I need to do is create the video making sure that I use the correct elements of visual persuasion (sex) along with mood music and run the video into mainstream audiences enough times that a majority of the audience will view it at least 21 times. This technique is so powerful that you can literally sell something completely wortless like “Cha Chia Pets” at christmas time. To this day I have yet to meet one person who has actually admitted to buying one. Yet, millions of them are sold every year at christmas time, just by using this one simple video technique. The KGB and CIA both used these techniques to brainwash each others agents when they were captured during the cold war. These techniques and ones that are similar are used every day in societies around the world to market products and manipulate peoples perceptions and beliefs with a 90% marginal success rate. It is so simple to do that even 3rd world countries have picked up on some of the techniques and use them on a regular bases.
I will finish this later. I have got some important stocks to buy and sell now.
Will continue later.
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Cheers Natasha W.
With regard to your response,
1. Having read your words again, and even most of P. Kayden initial quote. It must be safe to admit that the bits you quoted from P.Kayden you are in agreement with.
You then go on to say:
“Don’t be the co-conspirator in your own downfall”
Now whether I am a hypocrite or not, against the backdrop of P.Kayden whole statement, and the parts that you edited and pasted here, and your own comments.
I think it is reasonable to infer that the above line is the type of thing outsiders usually suggest to ‘victims’, of any kind, and this is what is known as ‘blame the vitim syndrome’.
Whether this was your intention or not, only you can now. However, as the recipient of your words I have given you my opinion.
2. With regard to the solutions. Just three points
a. You suggested ‘solution’s because I suggested that the ‘others’ who observe the victim, usually blames them but offers no solutions to their problems – which is true by the way, be that as it may
b. I am not ‘blaming’ any individual for anything. So whether I can provide a solution then becomes a moot point. Simply because it leads us back to the common saying ‘If you do not have anything good to say about a person, its best not say anything at all’. Rather those who are doingthe ‘blaming’ here read ‘encouraging’ (sic) should at the very least offer some insight.
c. On a more fundamental level, whether I have the answers or even partial solutions. i am not silly enough to place them on the internet. This would be another example of being ‘politically niave’
d. So with regard to the solutions I hope I have shown that it is an ‘intellectual trap’, which in essence is a red herring.
3. With regard me saving Black males. I am very interested by your comments. Personally I thought this thread was about incarcarated males, who happen to be Black, as opposed to one about Black males per se in the US.
4. If you go back, can you show me where, I am trying to relieve Black men. If this is my position, it is only in response to P. Kayden initial comments. And now we have come full circle. It was a statement that you also agreed with
5. With regard to your perception of me censuring Black women. My words are here on this blog. Please feel free to bring any quotes therewith, and if you can, then I will concede your point. However, until then I will have to reject your contention
6. If your contention is false -and I say it is. Then the real question that would have to be asked is ‘how could you have come to this conclusion to paint me so, and what does then it actually say about you’??
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ha ha ha Reginald!!
‘Let’s just cut to the chaste’
It might be so much easier to get your point over.
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J — tl;dr. Maybe later.
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” this Joe Clyde character, who I’ve seen on other blogs censuring black women, yet he wants to come here and play the victim and actually project his own doings on to them. You all are too transparent.”
Heeeeey. I don’t censure anyone. I just give my opinion. I glad that you are a fan. 🙂
– For the last time. This was in my first statement. It was clear what point I am trying to get at.
“I think people are missing the point. It’s not to say that 90% of Black men in jail are innocent. The point is that White “Criminals” are still walking the streets. For doing the same crimes that Black “criminals” have been found guilty of.”
So I am not saying Black criminals should be let out in the streets. I am just saying that Black men don’t receive the same treatment as white criminals.
So unlike this other character that tries to portray black men as Dumb. But I guess white criminals are smart then? That is the point.
But like I stated also in my original comment. Unfortunately if it happens to Black men. People want to wash their hands of the situation. Especially some Black women. As if they are not affected.
Is it clear now or are you going to again put words into my mouth?
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Joe,
“Heeeeey. I don’t censure anyone. I just give my opinion. I glad that you are a fan.”
I’m not a fan; don’t know you. I’ve just been looking around at other blogs and saw your name come up very often. Especially if the topic is black men and/or women.
“For the last time. This was in my first statement. It was clear what point I am trying to get at.
“I think people are missing the point. It’s not to say that 90% of Black men in jail are innocent. The point is that White “Criminals” are still walking the streets. For doing the same crimes that Black “criminals” have been found guilty of.”
So I am not saying Black criminals should be let out in the streets. I am just saying that Black men don’t receive the same treatment as white criminals. “
And this is why I got so frustrated with this post and the people responding to my original comment. Because you people don’t read. You just want to project on to me what you “think” I’m saying, based on your prior experiences.
I acknowledged your point in my original comment. I know quite well how unfairly blacks are treated by the police — I’ve had two immediate family members beaten by cops and received jail time on top of that. On top of countless friends who were treated worse. I never said that the system was fair. What I was saying is because it is so unfair, don’t put yourself in a position to be treated like that. Sometimes it is inevitable, but whatever is in your power, do it. It’s not because I don’t care about black males that I am telling them to not be involved in these activities. It is because I do care, and I care a lot.
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Reginald @ “J”
I thought I would take a little break after work today. I was thinking about how to sum it all up in a simple way. So here it is. While we analyze, disect, separate, decipher, exclude, and accept or reject any known reasoned conclusions, it is still a very small element in the nature of the big picture.
Young black men are actually going thru the same transformations as any other natural organisms in the world experiencing growth or decline.
When it comes to making babies out of wedlock, This might also be an example of nature expressing itself in a totally different way.
As I studied mamalian behaviors in the early 90’s, I drew some very interesting conclusions. Different species faced with extinction seem to develope a unique survival behavior quite different from other species that seem to be doing well.
They become quite ruthless and somewwhat chaotic in their attempt to adapt to brand new behaviorial patterns which will allow them the best advantages to survive. Usually this behavior seems upsetting to observe first hand.
When any species is pushed to the point of entropy a strange thing starts to occur. In the middle of an entire expression of complete chaos, this threatened species evolves and blooms into one of the most organized among all other species.
In fact, through natural selection rules they then flurish and grow until they reach a new level of entropy or completely die out and are eleminated like the Neanderthol species which Homosapiens (us)seemed to push to extinction.
With all of the perceived insanity young black males appear to be exibiting, is it possible that what we are actually seeing as bad behavior on every account, is actually the chaotic behavior of a threatened part of our own species making a haphazard attempt to regroup and evolve to a higher level.
When we think about how absurd and crazy we may think that their behavior is, it could very well be their natural selection instincts are attempting to do just that.
I am not trying to make any excuses for any outlandish behavior exhibited by any group. I am just trying to look at the scientific possibilities of this unexplained phenomena.
I also try to remember that the “Butter Affect” is always in effect.
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And I would like to add something else further. With regard to the initial comment which I believe ignited the ‘debate’ and the issue Black males need to behave ‘better, or words to thosse extent.
This pre-supposes that the system of racism is ‘static’, it was not designed to bring about end results, and that it will NOT change either (once Blacks improve). So in essence it fails to understand the raison d’etre and the function of racism.
Personally in any system of racism – I will broaden the subject out here to anywhere in the world – and suggest, even if Blacks can behave ‘immaculately’ to the strictures of a racist society, that society will ‘move the ‘goalposts’ accordingly.
The closest analogy I can think of is, and forgive me here, is the ‘battered wife thinking syndrome’. The woman who is beaten in a relationship daily, begins to believe that ‘if she behaves ‘better’ towards her partner, the violence will stop.
However, the reality is no matter what she does, even if she excels, the outcome will always be the same.
This often occurs even on a mundane level in the UK, where the Black person within schools, and/or in employment are not rewarded for ‘conforming’ (ie behaving immaculately) but sometimes duly punished. And or may be used against other Black pupils/employees per se
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Cheers Reginald,
I hope I have understood your point correctly when I say its related to marriage, family etc.
Its society and/or communities that construct such values.
Therefore there must be some ‘process’ wherein a community comes together to create that reality, which will not be an easy process now, since for 400 years or so, we have lived by another the structure. Furthermore if you look across the Western world at least you will observe that the family is/has changed
This is what I think in a very brief way. However, can you tell me why you have raised this point with me, when it was someone else who initially raised this topic??
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Personally in any system of racism – I will broaden the subject out here to anywhere in the world – and suggest, even if Blacks can behave ‘immaculately’ to the strictures of a racist society, that society will ‘move the ‘goalposts’ accordingly.
Yes, that’s exactly it. To believe otherwise is to fundamentally misunderstand why racism exists. Racism is just a reason to justify discrimination for the purpose of hoarding resources. Racism is a very useful ideology.
That’s exactly what this post (and presumably the book which I haven’t read) is about. The goalposts of “Jim Crow” have moved, but many of the results are strikingly similar. Black people are still oppressed by the police, black people are still being disenfranchised (because in a democracy the vote is a powerful thing), black people still don’t receive real justice whether they are the victims of crime or the alleged perpetrators. And ultimately, the country is still profiting off the backs of black people. Solomon said it best, there is nothing new under the sun.
It is racism that justifies all of this oppression, because racism teaches that there must be something wrong with black people, and the ways of whites are better. Even when a white person and a black person have done the exact same thing, it was bad for a black person to do it. It doesn’t matter if millions of black lives are harmed or ruined, because they weren’t white.
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@ Danila and J:
Co-sign 1000%.
In Jim Crow times the excuse was rape. Now it is drugs. If it was not that it would be something else.
The police in New York stop black and Latino men way more than anyone else and the most arrestable thing they most often find is, guess what, weed.
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Reply to “J”
Actually “J”, I got lost in the gramatical shuffle of so many comments being made about this subject, I just tried to comment on what I thought might be one of the answers in a scientific reasoning approach. I did this once before when I interupted MerriMay in the middle of one of her responses. It was done totall by accident. Anyway, it is good to see that people are responding. I have wanted to discuss this for a while now. Most of what I have read so far shows me that our species may not be as primitive as I once thought. There are some very smart, bright people out there. I am glad to be part of this blog for many reasons. As we continue to disect and examine the base reasons for young black mens behavior, it should allow us to gain better insight into other phenomena especially how deeply imbeded our hatreds and dislikes are and start to take those aspects into account also. This is going to get very interesting indeed. Lets see where all of this takes us. Some of you are just waiting to bust loose and really let it fling wild. Thats what I am waiting to hear and read.
Make sense, peace can come later.
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Ummm, no I don’t agree J and Damila. Just simply being black is, on the average, not going to land you in prison. I know the cops stop blacks on the regular, but in my experience it is not as you are making it out to be. But I think this is where you all and I diverge and we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You see blacks as helpless victims, I do not.
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Natasha W,
With regard to your comments, I will allow Damila to speak for herself. These are my thoughts.
Earlier you took umbrage with Joe Clyde and I for putting words into your mouth etc. And now you have are doing the very same thing.
There should be no need to take you back to the word ‘hypocrite’ in this instance, since you have already used it and showed taht you are more than conversant with the term.
Surely would it not have been better to have asked me (and Damila) what is your perspective on the situation – or did you have in mind that there would be no more further discussion to pursue??
Paradoxically that you believe that I think Blacks are ‘helpless victims’, may actually say more about you than it does about me.
Why do I say this?
When individuals assume the loftier position of ‘blaming the victim syndrome’ it is usually with groups that can be classified as ‘helpless victims’.
So we appear to have two sides of the same coin, and here I am relying on your own words:
“Do not be ‘co-conspirators’ in your downfall= helpless victim”.
However, my position is that Blacks in the US are NOT co-conspirators in their downfall, nor do I see them as helpless victims’.
Finally what would interest me, and forgive me if I am sounding like the recentlydeparted No_Slappz here:
“How would you then characterise what is going on across the African continent?
Utilising your same reasoning, I would have to assume that they are also co-conspirators in their own downfall of: poverty, wars, diseases, malnutrition etc.
It would be interesting to hear your response regarding Africa, since we have already agreed to disagree on the Blacks in the US situation.
Thanks
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I understand Reginald…Cool
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This issue is really tragic. However, people who are deeply outraged by this issue can donate to the Innocence Project to help those who are unjustly incarcerated based on faulty evidence and false charges.
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@Abagond
In Jim Crow times the excuse was rape. Now it is drugs. If it was not that it would be something else.
No doubt.
In fact, here in Rio, if were to live another 50 years I would fully expect to see a “boca de fumo” (drug sales point) canonized and preserved as a “typical representation of roots popular culture”. 50 years from now, drugs will be removed from the popular mind and the excuse used to police the down-and-out will be something completely different.
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I was just reminded… One of my YouTube favs Jwriter did a video about this a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jwriter4#p/search/1/KFfBeI0atKo
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An interesting link, in that it echoes much of what has been suggested so far.
One thing as far as I am concerned is that the ‘masses’ of people generally do not have the ‘consciousness’ to blame the State per se.
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Reginald
Thanks “Y”. The video was interesting. You are always on the money.
Hey “J”. I like what you said about ” people not having consciousness to blame the State.” I believe this is one of the reasons we are talking to each other here.
Everytime someone responds, a new level of consciousness is created. Everything in this universe is energy.
When we all give our attention to something it is called “Collective Consciousness.” This is a good thing.
We that are so little become bigger than life when we attempt to address it together.
Yes, even when we don’t agree. Any idea becomes valid when we give it attention. The first and primary steps for building or correcting anything always starts with thought. It is the fertilizer that allows our life flowers to grow and develope into better beings.
Unfortunately, the forces that push our Consciousness to higher levels also have an opposite and opposeing force that attempts to destroy our life flowers.
Continue to engage your thought forces towards repairing what your spirits know is wrong is what we are supposed to do. Do what is good and do it well.
Let us continue as we were meant to be. Not as others define us but as beacons of light that shine for everyone that we know or will know.
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All I would like to add is that some would suggest that all thoughts, actions starts with ‘ego’.
Lose the ‘ego’ then all things become possible, especially with regard to ‘consciousness’ etc.
Apart from that there is much what you say here that I concur with.
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Reginald
Then continue to do just that. The rest will happen the way that it should. All of life is nothing more than an illusion.
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Indeed a terrible illusion…but ‘on we go’ as you said
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And while we are discussing this topic. There has been no reference to Political Prisoners in the USA.
This article suggests that in the US they comprise of Blacks, Puerto Ricans and Native Americans
Politial Prisoners in the USA
Click to access pol-pris.pdf
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@ J and Reginald…
J, you said, “Indeed a terrible illusion…but ‘on we go’ as you said.”
Finally, I feel as though there are people like me out in the world who see through the monotonous dribble of normal daily life. An illusion…
@ Reginald “Continue to engage your thought forces towards repairing what your spirits know is wrong is what we are supposed to do. Do what is good and do it well.
Let us continue as we were meant to be. Not as others define us but as beacons of light that shine for everyone that we know or will know.”
Me: Awesome… Simply awesome!
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ColorofLuv,
There is a school of thought in Indian Philosophy/Religion called Maya
http://hinduism.iskcon.com/concepts/105.htm
So we are not alone!!
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@ J
Yeah, if you weren’t all the way on the other side of the big pond, I’d invite you out for some beers! I’d like to pick your brain. We could talk forever about the infinite number of rabbit holes in this world of smoke & mirrors!!! lol…
Cheers
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Unfortunately, the forces that push our Consciousness to higher levels also have an opposite and opposeing force that attempts to destroy our life flowers.
Continue to engage your thought forces towards repairing what your spirits know is wrong is what we are supposed to do. Do what is good and do it well.
Let us continue as we were meant to be. Not as others define us but as beacons of light that shine for everyone that we know or will know.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFpt. [passes the joint along]
Lose the ‘ego’ then all things become possible, especially with regard to ‘consciousness’ etc.
So let me get this straight: we’re supposed to lose our ego and subsume ourselves in the collective consciousness and yet simultaneously define ourselves as something other than what others define us as?
Right….
FFFFFFFFFpt. Good weed, that.
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Well thank you for the kind thought and words, ColorofLuv
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J and CoL, you two would be among the first sent to the wall if any sort of “collective attitude” took over the soceities you live in.
As if you represented – in any way, shape, or form – some sort of mechanical, non-individualist, communal way of thinking… [roll eyes] I mean give me a break, guys!
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With regard to:
So let me get this straight: we’re supposed to lose our ego and subsume ourselves in the collective consciousness and yet simultaneously define ourselves as something other than what others define us as?
Personally I see it no different to your claim that Blacks should not have any ‘race pride’
So here goes:
“So let me get this straight: we’re supposed NOT to GAIN our RACE PRIDE and subsume ourselves in the collective consciousness (IE WHITE STATUS QUO) and yet simultaneously define ourselves as something other than what others define us as?”
What were you saying about weed again my friend??
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@ Thad…
Sounds like you need a hug dude!
I mean, c’mon. You just know that J and I were getting ready to break into “Kum ba yah”. LOL
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with the basic premise of striving to be a better human being. As for philosophy and conspiracy theories, well, to each their own.
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No, we’re not supposed to subsume ourselves into any “collective consciousness”, period. Blackm white, fascist… It doesn’t matter.
We’re living in the modern, industrial, capitalist, individualist era, friends. You can rail against it all you want, but these are the facts.
Anyone preachiong a return to some kind of collective consciousness now is either a romantic fool (at best) or a manipulative scoundrel (at worst).
And you gentlemen can complain all you like, but it precisely INDIVIDUALISM which allows you to peek outside the limitations of your socio-cultural formation. If you truly were part of some “white status quo collective consciousness”, you wouldn’t be able to critique it.
As for “striving to be a better human being”, CoL, I agree with you whole-heartedly. But after a week of reading Hitler’s Mein Kampf, followed by a week of post-modern theory, I’m exceptionally leary of any calls to “subsume ourselves” into some sort of supposedly “higher” consciousness. What this means, in practice, is to give one’s will to the mob.
And that CERTAINLY isn’t any way to “strive to better oneself”.
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Just to say Thad that you may disagree with what is being said, does not mean the matter that is a subject area in Indian philosophy/religion cannot be discussed and assessed accordingly.
I am glad you have left the weed on the metaphorical table, behind you.
What interest me, is this not what humanism is:
“Anyone preachiong a return to some kind of collective consciousness now is either a romantic fool (at best) or a manipulative scoundrel (at worst)”
And you have been a proponent of ‘humanism’, and at the same time chatised Abagond & I with regard to this issue??
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With regard to:
“I am glad you have left the weed on the metaphorical table, behind you”.
It look like you did not as you went into your usual ‘racist stereotyping.
‘
Its kind of remarkable you are in Brazil via US, and you would be right at home in the bigoted racist company of Whites, million miles away from you, here in the UK.
Says much about you…
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“Its kind of remarkable you are in Brazil via US, and you would be right at home in the bigoted racist company of Whites, million miles away from you, here in the UK.”
Marijauna is considered more of a white thing than a black thing in the US (Brazil?). So the statement is unlikely to have had such a meaning.
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Cheers FG,
However, your attempt to defend all things usually White, manifest itself to the fore, in this time defending a commentator who I believe is racist.
As I said in another post, this is not the first time this has happened with this commentator.
And if you would read the other post – I doubt if you will – you will see his paltry excuse for the use of racist overtones.
Think about this, and how the conversation went:
Why would:
Reparation= A Black issue in this instance
be tied to
Smoking Weed = Which you say is a White male thing
and then tied
Bob Marley = Jamaican Rastafarian/music
So how on earth -forgive the pun ere – do you connect White males in all of this??
What you have demonstrated here is a particular ‘mindset’
The statement has valid meaning FG, very valid meaning. Just that you cannot see it, or do not want to see it – even after reading this post.
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“Marijauna is considered more of a white thing than a black thing in the US (Brazil?).
O RLY? When did this happen?
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And you have been a proponent of ‘humanism’, and at the same time chatised Abagond & I with regard to this issue??
First of all, I’m hardly a proponent of “humanism” the way you are of co-called “African centered thinking”. I am very critical of humanism. I just happen to see it as the best thing going of a very bad lot.
Secondly, given that humanism is based upon the western notion of the discrete, distinct and unique individual, bearer of rights, among of which are the right to their own beliefs, how can this be considered “collective consciousness” in any sociologically significant sense of the word?
And no, J: “culture” and “ideology” are not “collective consciousnesses”. Go look up Durkheim.
Its kind of remarkable you are in Brazil via US, and you would be right at home in the bigoted racist company of Whites, million miles away from you, here in the UK.
I very much doubt it, J. I piss those people off far more than I piss off romanticist quasi-fascists like you. 😀
….in this time defending a commentator who I believe is racist.
And as we all know, what J believes must be true. But hell, I’ll cop to being a racist, sure. As a mtter of fact, I thought it was gospel on this board – at least among your pals, J – that ALL whites are racist, or almost all.
What I don’t believe in is white supremacy or that racism is a positive thing. I also don’t believe that something is necessarily racist just because you say it is, J.
With regards to J’s continued attempts to twist words to make them seem to be racist insults, he is taking a jocose stereotype I made about people getting stoned, listening to Bob Marley and then repeating Garveyist beliefs regarding reparations and repatriation as dogma. At the time I made the comment, I was actually thinking about some old friends of mine from my undergrad days who were almost painfully white and folks like our buddy, the commentator-known-as-Macon.
J seems to think, however, that only blacks listen to reggae and smoke pot.
Go figure.
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Regarding marijuana in Brazil, it generally IS considered to be more of a white thing than a black thing these days, at least going by the portrayals of potheads in out popular media, 90% of whom are white.
A great example of this can be seen in the movie “City of God”, where pot is associated with the white-to-light brown hippy dippy faction of the favela population while coke is associated with dat’ ol’ debbil (the very black) Zé Pequeno and his (equally black) gang of thugs.
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^Whatever it is in Brazil, it is most certainly not that way in the US. I don’t know what fairytale land FG lives in, with the claims he makes on this blog.
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I don’t know, Natasha, but my impression from looking at American media is that pot is not particularly white or black in the States. There are distinct subcultures of both colors of pot smokers.
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^The main/only white subculture weed is associated with is hippie and stoner. But these are not labeled “white,” but a small faction of whites, similar to goths. Whereas weed is associated with “black culture” as a whole.
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Thad,
I am not going to address all your points because I am beginning to think you are a Troll, who usually become more vocal whenever someone takes a ‘pro-Black stance’
ie the fight against White privilege
What caught my eye in your long post was,, your admission for the very first time :
“First of all, I’m hardly a proponent of “humanism” the way you are of co-called “African centered thinking”. I am very critical of humanism”
However, this criticalness of humanism, did not manifest itself when you went on to criticise Abagond and I.
Your suggestion then was being ‘pro-black, meant we were outside the concept of ‘humanism’ and omitting other groups.
This ‘intellectual dishonesty’ is so prevalent in much of what you say, and it begs the question. Why did you not make mention of this earlier ie when you chose to make your pernicious comments??
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Whereas weed is associated with “black culture” as a whole.
Including your stereotypical church-going negroes?
C’mon, Natasha: off the top of my head I can think of a half-dozen black subcultural stereotypes that are not associated with pot.
Your suggestion then was being ‘pro-black, meant we were outside the concept of ‘humanism’ and omitting other groups.
That wasn’t my suggestion, J, but by now I’m thoroughly familiar with how you’ll read whatever the hell you want into what I say, so rare back and project to your little heart’s content.
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I think you’re splitting hairs; you have to look at the bigger picture. When most Americans think “black” they think 50 Cent or “the hood.” They don’t think church. Whereas when most Americans think “white” they are not thinking hippie. Hence the association of blacks and marijuana/drugs, and not whites and marijuana/drugs.
But all of this is irrelevant to the post at hand, so I’ll stop here so I won’t derail.
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When most Americans think “black” they think 50 Cent or “the hood.”
Agreed. But they don’t think “pot” then: they think “crack” or the more generic “drugs”.
So I’ll agree with you that blacks are very symbolically associated with drugs in the American mind. No doubt about that. Where I disagree is that weed in particular is associated with them – at least nowdays. Back in 1920, yes.
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If Abagond, will permit me one more post before we return to the topic of Black men and Incarceration.
1. Thad
Appears as a ‘liberal’ until some issue that solely is ‘pro-Black’ like the destruction of White Privilege. Then he becomes ‘defensive’ and then shows his true colour. So this would explain how he can hold so many contradictory positions. Without a doubt, his role on here is to hi-jack any ‘pro-Black’/’militant’, here read in his eyes any ‘anti-white’ rhetoric. Definitely a troll when these issues are raised here.
2. RR,
Similar to Thad in style utilising intellectual debates. As with Thad he also had Black people interest at heart, even though he was White. RR, focussed his argument on the negative stereotypes,and how best to alleviate them
3. No_Slappz
The man who told it as he felt.
Out of the three No_Slappz was the most ‘sincere’, as I have suggested previously. However, all three essentially fulfil the same role and function
Hmmm!!!
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^Replace “50 Cent” with “Snoop Dogg” and the statement is still the same.
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I agree J, hate to say this I kinda miss the no holds barred brutality and unwavering stance of our departed No_Slappz. As for the snake in the grass ‘allies’ when it suits….smh… the schizo tactics makes me sick!
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It seems to me that American culture associates white kids with pot, ecstasy, and over-the-counter prescription abuse.
On the other hand, blacks are associated with harder stuff, namely cocaine.
That’s just my impression.
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J, from my point of view, you are an authoritarian nutter who believes that the world would just be fine if only everyone would follow you our your designated fuhrer off to Glory Land.
You claim to believe in revolutionary change, but in all the time I’ve read your postings here, you haven’t been able to give a clear, pragmatic view of how that change is going to come about.
To wit, you fill up the blog woth your Garveyite BS about reparations. When someone says “OK, fair go. Reparations. How are they going to come about? Let’s see a pragmatic plan,” your only response is to baaaaaaw that your critic hates black people.
Perish the thought that the critic simply thinks that YOU, J, are long on hot wind about change and very short on any effective plan to make it.
You claim to believe in “African-centered thinking”, yet every supposed “African centered” thought you’ve presented us with so far – from warmed over romantic fantasies of racial unity to diffusionist belief on “cradles of civilization” is simply old, obsolete, provably wrong 19th century European theories with their valences reversed. So where Madison Grant preached white unity in an inevtibale race war, you preach black unity in the same. Where 19th century archeologists held Greece to be the mother of civilization, you simply move that locus several thousand klicks to the south to near the Rift Valley. It never occurs to you to question whether the very IDEA of a race war or race unity or the CONCEPT of a “cradle of civilization” are European because, apparently and in spite of your sermons on African-centeredness, your imagination is permanently mired in 19th century Victorian Europe.
You’re black Londoner, J, and it shows. Lord does it show!
I think your revolutionary impulses are very true and good, but you’re authoritarian and elitist to the core. Lord help any revolution that ever got into your hands, because you’re the kind of guy who’d have no trouble convincing your self that killing millions is necessary in order to maintain your self-imposed ideological purity.
Finally, I think it’s ironic that people like you hate “liberalism” – ironic because if it wasn’t for liberal values such as personal freedom and individualism, you’d not have a leg to stand on.
The more I see incipent fascists such as yourself and Glen Beck criticize “liberalism” – without ever taking the time to even define what you mean – the more I become convinced that there’s something interesting in that particular box that authoritarians don’t want the rest of the world to see.
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And I, MerriMay get sick at listening to self-serving dogma and sloppy thinking.
We all have our particular crosses to bear.
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Reginald @ Color O Luv
Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate them. It is my hope to continue to evolve from what I once thought was the correct way to engage negative people and forces therein, to a better level of internal awareness.
I myself came from the inner city streets on the American north east coast from an impoverished african american neighborhood.
If you had a car or a television in my old neighborhood, some people thought you were rich.
I am still attempting to grow and become something useful to myself and others who still think the way I once did.
Hopefully, everyone will one day understand that life has a purpose for all of us. You are so right when you say that “We are not alone.”
There is a saying that little kids say in my old neighborhood. We all think that it is pretty cool, especially when little kids say it. They say “Each one, teach one.”
Out of the mouths of babes.
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Reginald @ Color O’ Luv
I just read “Maya Illusion.” I had no idea consciously, that that is exactly what I have set out to achieve for myself. It sounds a bit lofty for me to even imagine. Thanks, you seem to know the true meaning of “Each one teach one.” Well done, my new friend.
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Did you know:
1/3 OF BLACK BOYS BORN IN 2001 ARE ESTIMATED TO BE PRISON INMATES?
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To Mel:
In Canada. getting caught with a small amount of marijuana is not an issue. Recently, they had a freedom festival in celebration of marijuana and the cops didn’t bother anyone.
There are similar festivals in Washington state, Oregon, and California. Medical Marijuana is legal in many states. The vast majority of people in US prisons are not there for possession of Marijuana.
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To Arianna
Did you know:
1/3 OF BLACK BOYS BORN IN 2001 ARE ESTIMATED TO BE PRISON INMATES?
1/3 of the Black male 9 years olds are in prison..? Umm check your figures.
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To Abagond:
The number of Black males in prison for drug charges has been exaggerated.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778436.html
23.7% are in (state) prison for drug offenses versus 14.3% for Whites, a higher percentage for sure but not totally off the scale. When people are arrested for possession there is generally a phrase added to the charges Possession with the intent to distribute. EG drug dealing.
The majority of Black males are in prison for violent offences. (reference data..)
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To J:
“White inmates were nearly three times more likely to have victimized a child than black inmates.”
That’s a verbal sleight of hand… there are substantially higher number of Blacks in prison (as this and other blog posts have noted…) as a percentage of the population than Whites (about 7 times higher…)
Let’s see the actual figures:
Click to access CVVOATV.PDF
See page 10
Percent of violent offenders
in State prison having Child victims.
White 69.7%
Black 25.5
Other 4.8
Whites at the time of this study were 80% of the population and Blacks were 13% of the population. So from these figures… (at least for people who went through the criminal justice system and ended up in prison…)
Whites are somewhat less likely to be in prison for violent crimes against children and Blacks are almost twice as likely to be in prison for violence against children as a percentage of their population.
That said.. I am fully aware that child molestation is a heavily under reported crime such that the true figures may never be known.
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Although there has been a dramatic increase in incarceration in the past few decades (the majority of which is for violent crime..) has there been benefits?:
There has been a dramatic in violent crimes towards Black people since the early 90s. (around 70%)
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/race.cfm
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GREAT article–I have featured Michelle Alexander’s video about The New Jim Crow at my blog http://intothefaerywood.blogspot.com . I am just wondering why you didn’t link her Youtube video talk about her book?
I was SO blown away by her talk that me and the Administrator of The Shroom Liberation Front are contacting as many people as we can about this American Drug War Caste System!!! I am going to of course include President Obama, but now–with that ecocidal oil ‘spill’–aint the right time yet.
There is MORE to this too—-along with the suppression of non-white people is also the suppression of sacred plants. Although I have not read Michell’s book yet, because she didn’t mention it in her talk I am guessing she doesn’t in her book. HARDLY surprising because what she says is dynamite enough
But there MUST be knowledge of the African sacred plant IBOGA!! Not many Afro Americans affwected by serious opiate habits will be aware of this sacred plant which is the only know ‘opiate interrrupter’–ie., it can RADICALLY help people with opiate habits, and other deep issues
Along with that sacred plant, there are others which are the original sacred medicine–as many indigenous peoples will agree–but the so-called ‘war on drugs’ which is war on PEOPLE–wage their war against sacred plants also, and create negative propaganda around them. So I will want to reveal all this also
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The fact is that only 20% of people in prison are in jail for drug offenses. More racist nonsense from Abagond. Your victim mentality is hilarious.
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Not totally sure what this is about??
In the Land of the Free…(c. 15)
https://www.tuc.org.uk/the_tuc/tuc-17950-f0.cfm?regional=7
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I fail to see the big connection where white people are intentionally controlling the black population with prisons. Money is surely at the root of anything in this country, and filling prisons with poor dullards is a good way to make business. A lot of blacks live in poor urban settings where this sort of thing happens, and because logically cops respond to these areas where crime occurs blacks are going to get arrested at a higher rate. But I don’t see any national racist conspiracy here, which your article seems to suggest. Surely rich white men find a weakening demographic more threatening than the black man actually making it higher in society.
On the subject of Marijuana though, it is very illogical to keep it illegal. The rampant use of it in this country serves as evidence to the actual (lack of)danger of its substance, but the distribution in of itself is not a victimless crime because dealings drugs is what harms society. Sure, someone might say they know a harmless drug dealer but in the big picture weed is profit for dangerous cartels, gans and even terrorists. But the solution is not to try and physically prevent them from selling weed, that’s futile. No matter how badly cigarettes get taxed I don’t see any back alley dealings with cigs. If we start selling it and taxing it, the profit margins for drug deals decreases. Just like that, you can actually apply a sensible solution to the problem instead of angrily flailing at it.
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I’ve been reading “At the hands of persons unknown: the lynching of Black America” by Philip Dray. Phenomenal book. It’s rough but very readable history. Something I hadn’t really thought about before is the fact that in many lynching cases, the black man may well have been due a trial. I’m not talking about “whistled at a white woman” (e.g. Medgar Evars), but in cases where someone actually killed a white person (like Sam Hose, who said it was self-defense) or where there is a genuine question over what happened. If black people were actually part of the justice system, then these alleged criminals would have had due process in a legit court, access to adequate defense, and unbiased judge/jury. But then, as now, black men were subjected to a separate system of “justice”. Some people were lynched after a show trial, but many never saw the inside of a court room.
Would we say that the fact that many of these victims may not have had completely clean hands in any way mitigates the torture and murder of lynching? Of course not (right?).
Then why would it justify the perverse “justice” that black men face today, where their rights as citizens are routinely stripped, and where they face harsher consequences than white people for the same crimes?
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I am saddened to realize first hand here in Minnesota, that a black man can not get a fair trial even with a supposedly good lawyer. I have talked to many here and the verdict is the same; Minnesota has all their lawyers sewed up.
Statistics say that a black man is more likely to go to jail in the mid-west more than anywhere else in the world. It is the truth.
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Abagond,
How many blackmen on this planet are truly free? And when i say free, i’m talking about free in every aspect of life……intellectually, spiritually, physically, and sexually. How many of us know our history, respect and love our history? How many of us have self-control over our minds and bodies? How many of us love and cherish blackwomen, and mean it?
Blackmen, are blessed more than any other man on the planet, but it’s not a guarantee of success. Blackmen destroy themselves with miseducation, ignorance, apathy, alcohol, drugs, guns, loose sexuality, hiv/aids, and so forth. Any blackman who commits crime is a disgrace to black manhood, pure and simple. There is no glory in being a modern-day slave and a punk. I don’t respect cowards and slaves, and black people as a whole shouldn’t respect them as well.
Aquarius Vision/20/20 Vision
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Why legalize marijuana? Isn’t it bad for your health?
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This is most telling. I think it deserves it’s own post.
http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking06/Meth-Crack.html
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Few people realize this, white people are often given awards for drug possession, some are even promoted at work. When a white baby is born 500000 goes into s private account for them and when they get a drivers license a note is placed to never ticket them. Many times real estate agents will go into a magic account and give the prospective white buyer 100000 as a gift so
They can buy the home they want. Similarly during the civil war brave black men sacrificed their lives by the hundreds of thousands to keep the union together. Black people are the most deplorable creatures of all
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I live in Baton Rouge LA. Here blacks are shooting each other every day. I am not racist but look at people by their character not color.
I am very concerned for the black community and do not understand people who cannot see the truth, you are not helping anyone just starting more trouble. Help the black community out it is good for everyone.
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They are doing the same thing to aboriginal men in Canada, look it up, everything you talk about happening to blacks in the states, the Canadian government is doing to First Nations here. The police and media don’t care when our women go missing, cops harass, beat and kill us for little reason and much impunity, we fill the ghettos and prisons here north of the border.
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didn’t the cia distribute crack to black neighborhoods? i also think black ppl should have been stronger to resist the temptation and see it as a trap.don’t trust ppl that have enslaved you and will try to find a new way to do it .they can’t enslave us physically so they try to enslave us mentally.
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[…] "Michelle Alexander, a civil rights lawyer and law professor at Ohio State University, argues in “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness” (2010) that the mass imprisonment of black men since the 1980s has taken the place of Jim Crow as American society’s main way to control black men – just as Jim Crow itself took the place of making them slaves….While blacks and whites sell and possess drugs at about the same rate, guess who is filling up the prisons under these drug laws? Mostly black and Latino men, particularly those from poor neighbourhoods. In some states as many as 80 to 90% of those found guilty of a drug crime are black men. But the Supreme Court sees no racism in that."- MORE – […]
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Reblogged this on The Racist and Unoriginal Anglo-American Entertainment Industry.
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Good Article. I have been following this blog for little over 6 months now. Very intrigued.
Its time to legalize this cash-cow.
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personally, I dont believe anyone should EVER lose the right to vote. Voting is a right, not a privilige. I believe prisoners should have a vote. Suppose someone is unjustly imprisoned, how could they vote for someone they think will help their case?
Women and blacks were denie the right to vote decades ago. So were poor whites at one time. NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE DENIED A VOTE OR A VOICE.
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[…] The mass imprisonment of black men since the 1980s has taken the place of Jim Crow as American society’s main way to control black men – just as Jim Crow itself took the place of making them slaves. America has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world, higher than the cruelest, most backward governments on earth. It has five times more people in prison now than in the 1970s. […]
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[…] The mass imprisonment of black men since the 1980s has taken the place of Jim Crow as American society’s main way to control black men – just as Jim Crow itself took the place of making them slaves. America has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world, higher than the cruelest, most backward governments on earth. It has five times more people in prison now than in the 1970s. […]
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“How to Stop Overzealous Prosecutors: Make them answer for the cost of incarceration.”
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/02/overzealous_prosecutors_hold_them_accountable_by_defunding_state_prisons.html?wpsrc=fol_tw
“When a local prosecutor sends a convicted felon to prison, the cost of keeping him locked up—an average of $31,286 per year—is paid for entirely by the state, not the county where the prosecutor holds office. The problem with this setup, some argue, is that prosecutors end up enjoying a “correctional free lunch,” meaning they can be extremely aggressive in their charging decisions without having to worry about how much it will cost the local taxpayers who elected them. If prosecutors were forced to take the cost of incarceration into account, the theory goes, there might not be 1.36 million people in America’s state prisons.”
“W. David Ball’s proposal begins with defunding state prisons, and making the counties pay for every inmate they incarcerate…voters in those counties don’t necessarily recognize that the prosecutors they elect are partially responsible for that difference—and they have little reason to care, since the cost is borne by the state, not the county. This is one of many reasons why county prosecutor races tend to be extremely uncompetitive: According to one study, which looked at election results between 1996 and 2006 in 10 states, the success rate for an incumbent DA running for re-election was an incredible 95 percent.”
“If criminal justice spending was allocated locally, as Ball suggests, the impact of the decisions made by local prosecutors would be more obvious to voters, which could exert pressure on the way prosecutors operate. As Ball writes, “The average person could more easily spot the linkage between increasing numbers of local prison commitments and, say, a decrease in the frequency of road repairs or a shorter public school year, allowing political checks on criminal justice to operate more effectively.”
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American Blacks are realy stupid. All ways crying about how many Blacks in jail across America. Stop doing crime and you will stop being sent to jail. See that’s how the system works. And we all know Blacks know how to work the system. Don’t do the crime if you don’t want to do the time. And most blacks in jail have long long criminal records. Starting out young before teen years. If Blacks want to be concidered regular people in America, & not out casts & in prison. Then stop doing crime. Act normal, not Rude & ignorant every place you go. Lowering the Quality of life for all other people. And then you will be no longer looked at a trouble makers, criminals, AIDS machines. Because in 2015 your color don’t make people not want to be around you. It’s how the Majority of your group of people your with & yourself act. How you act is what makes you in the spot your in
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@ KDT
But wouldn’t this advice also be the same for White people?
If that is true, what does it say?
Blacks aren’t “regular people?”
Huh? …
Anyway, so before 2015 it WAS our color… but now it’s not?
Obviously there will be no answers—just having fun.
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The facts show The Majority of American Black refusses to act like humans. Refuse to conform to socitys norms. The American Black Blames all his failure on “The White Man “.. Not on the fact that the Majority of Blacks refuse to continue Education. They make babbys they can’t support, do crimes ending up in jail. It Don’t matter what color someone is.. If the majority of any race acted this way. They would be sitting in the same position as Blacks are. The blacks are the only group with major issues complaining crying. Unfair , I’m in jail.. To bad!!! You earned it. With any luck all the blood lines of any one, of any race, that acts this way, will kill them self & there blood line off. The blacks are doing a great job at this now. So change or be destroyed. Ether way all other people better off without ya!!?
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@ KDT
Are you a poor White person – possibly from the souther US? I ask you this based on your writing style.
I’m wondering where you get your “facts” from? This is a standard question, since no one person could know about what all the Black people are doing all across the country. So you must be relying on statistics of some kind. Where are you getting those statistics from?
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@ King
I am beginning to wonder about his “facts” as well. And what is babbys?
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@ sharinalr
KDR:
Kentucky
Department of
Teachin’
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@ King
ROFL
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The New Jim Crow is on my book shelf after see this post thread. I need to read it. The mass incarceration of black men and young teens is the new slavery and the prison industrial complex is the plantation cheap labor.
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@ King
To ; coon — more like it. Your funny! But yes I only did 1 year of collage. Because when the company I started in mid 90’s took off.. No more need to wast time in school. $400 K that 1st year stupid !!! So the poor part your to wrong to be stupid. Any way got to stop texing – your monkey ass . I’m driving my Viper.. I bet the car insurance – I pay on this car this year is as much as your rent. Fyi NY…… NJ whole life…… Road wet now going home…
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@KDT
You should have learned how to make a sentence in Elementary school. How you got to College is beyond me. Though it is painfully obvious everything you said is a lie.
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Haha! Nice fantasy KDT, but if you were to write business correspondences at your current level of spelling, punctuation, and grammar, then you would be laughed straight out of the business world.
And a Viper is it?… How impressive!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360213895750?lpid=82&chn=ps
And BTW I don’t pay rent. And if you’re paying more for your ‘Viper insurance’ than I am for my mortgage in the L.A. market, then you are an even a bigger fool than you sound 🙂
Get home safe now… and kiss your wife, Morgan Fairchild, once for me.
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“Million Shares Club: 36 Major Private Prison Investors”
“Without the financial support of major investors like Vanguard and Wells Fargo, CCA and GEO alone would not be strong enough to successfully lobby for policies that increase the federal government’s demand for private prisons. With these powerful allies, however, they have been able to sway public policy in favor of more severe “tough on crime” laws and the increasing criminalization of immigrants.
The financial services industry now makes up a third of the US economy, and its members collectively own over two-thirds of CCA and GEO Group. It is the most powerful lobbying force in both Washington DC and in state governments. To address the root causes of anti-immigrant and other racist legislation, it is imperative that we expose and sever the financial ties that allow shareholders to cash in on the incarceration of immigrants and people of color.”
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To KDT:
But yes I only did 1 year of collage.
In my entire life I’ve probably only done collage for at most 12 hours but I did attend college for 7 years.
Hey this website makes collage easy:
http://www.picmonkey.com/collage
Let’s eat, grandma:
Asking your grandmother to join you for a meal.
Let’s eat grandma:
Cannibalism!
Good grammar matters.
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“Follow the Money: Invisible Investors Seek Big Bucks in Mass Incarceration”
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/29809-follow-the-money-invisible-investors-seek-big-bucks-in-mass-incarceration#
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^^^^ Thanks for the link. Very interesting indeed.
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@sharinalr
No problem. I wish I could take my $ out of BofA now but can’t, not that it’s enough to really make a dent anyway.
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[…] mass incarceration of Black men […]
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“In 2012, Glenn Ford, editor of Black Agenda Report, wrote that the crime of genocide was meant to be “more than a kind of legal epitaph for the dead,” which is why the U.N. included other crimes besides killing, such as mass incarceration. While Americans are reluctant to call this genocide, Ford imagined what an alien visitor, free of cultural prejudices, would see when visiting the U.S.:”
“ET would quickly learn that one out of every eight incarcerated persons in the world is African American – about 12 percent of the inmates on Planet Earth – although Black Americans make up less than six tenths of one percent of the global population. ET would recognize that such numbers can only mean that a genocide is in progress, that African Americans have been singled out for some horrible fate by the U.S. government.”
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@ taotesan
Mass Black imprisonment has been Glen Ford’s special journalistic beat for the past five years.
Right now the BAR site is not a full strength. A lot of his best articles are buried with no easy way to access them (e.g. no category list or search box).
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