Tiffany Pollard (1982- ), also known as Tiffany Patterson but best known as New York of “Flavor of Love” (2006-2008), is an American reality television star. As she puts it, she is one of the first and one of the baddest reality vixens – a line that started with Omarosa in 2004 on “The Apprentice” and continues to this day with “The Real Housewives of Atlanta” (2008- ).
She has been a main character on the following VH1 surreality shows:
- 2006: “Flavor of Love 1″
- 2006: “Flavor of Love 2″
- 2007: “I Love New York 1″
- 2007: “I Love New York 2″
- 2008: “New York Goes to Hollywood”
- 2009: “New York Goes to Work”
She was the breakout character on “Flavor of Love 1″. She was such a hit with viewers VH1 brought her back for the second season. Later they gave her a show of her own, “I Love New York”. It was a female version of “Flavor of Love”: a dating reality show where she lives in a California mansion and picks among 20 suitors.
On the shows she is a drama queen and self-admitted bitch. She goes there. She is like a train wreck: it is hard to not look. “A bobble-headed bitch that’s good for TV,” as Deelishis on “Flavor of Love” put it. Loud, foul-mouthed, ill-mannered, short-tempered, low-class, overbearing and in-your-face, she overplays the Sapphire stereotype, the main image whites in America have of black women. Add to that catfighting and a trashy-sexy appearance with fake eyelashes and fake breasts.
Despite all that a part of me likes her for some reason.
In real life I do not know anyone who acts like that, not to that degree. Such a person would have no friends. I know I would avoid her as much as I could. Even in the alternate reality of “Flavor of Love” she had no friends or allies. Because no one could stand her. Even Flavor Flav himself said he could not stand her “jealous ways”, meaning she is a controlling bitch.
I am not sure if whites understand that she is over-the-top to get more viewers. She is too close to one of their stock images of black women. And they seem to assume that blacks on television are more or less true to life (the BET Fallacy).
In media interviews Pollard often presents herself differently: charming, well-mannered and easy-going. She chooses her words carefully. She even talks about how fortunate she is, how she thanks God and trusts in him. She loves her haters as well as her fans. She can even look natural and beautiful.
Since her VH1 days she has been trying to make it as an actress in Hollywood. So far with little success. Like Leonard Nimoy who played Spock in “Star Trek”, it will be hard for her to rise above the character that made her famous. Add to that the short shelf life most actresses have: Pollard turned 30 this year. Being black narrows her opportunities even further.
She grew up in Utica in upstate New York. She has two children. Trinidadian cricketer Kieron Pollard is her cousin.
See also:
“In real life I do not know anyone who acts like that, not to that degree.” — Abag
I find that hard to believe. I’ve know several who’ve acted like her.
I never, ever, thought I would agree with duckduckgoofs, but I have known a few people like her, too.
I remember watching Flavor of Love 1 and disliking Tiffany Pollard. I thought her behavior was disgusting. However, she eventually grew on me in all of her other reality TV appearances. Not bc I became use to her behavior, not bc of the train wreck phenomenon, but bc she is hilarious.
I’ve witnessed this a lot in the real world. People appreciate a sense of humor so much that they will often forgive a horrible personality.
btw the natural look in the last photo>>>>> clown make up harlot in the others
Sapphires exist. I believe it is unfair for them to represent the entirety of Black women in America or anywhere else, but they are a significant portion of their population. I can honestly say that Sapphire’s are some of the most unattractive and unpleasant people to come across.
Tiffany Pollard has two sides to her persona
1) The Bitch (as shown in the 2nd pic)
2) The over-the-top drama Queen (as shown in the 3rd pic)
I’m sad to say that when it comes to many black women, The Bitch Tiffany isn’t too far off from reality…
My comment is in moderation. Is it because I used the ‘B’ word? If so, my bad. I thought it was okay considering you used it in your post
@ The Cynic
It is a moderated word but it is all right to use in this thread.
@Cynic
“People appreciate a sense of humor so much that they will often forgive a horrible personality.”
Yes, Cynic, if a horrible personality can make other people laugh they can can get away with a lot of stuff.
Yet I’ve also witnessed that people laughed out of fear or embarrassment – and the horrible personality often knows that and relies on it, using the laugh-factor to avoid accountability.
What I have seen happen, over time, is that individuals like can cease being hilarious/entertaining whilst becoming no less ugly inside.
@ Duck
Of all the stereotypes about blacks the Sapphire stereotype seems to be the truest in my experience. However none of the women I have come across were over-the-top like New York.
What is it with the VH1 reality shows and how they depict black women? I dont know this person , but, when I hit the States and put on the TV , and see shows like Basketball Wives, a new show in Atlanta about music biz people, etc, it is almost nauseous…
The same with Jersey Shore and Mob wives , its just painful…
Reality shows have gotten to the point of just over exsageration, and, Im sure they egg on these people to get these emotive reactions to really just get ratings
And, Im sure these people participating know the cameras are on them and really “act out” what they think will be good for them
People are now building careers and becoming celebrities from being on reality shows..you dont need talent, forget hard work and discipline to get good at an artistic craft, just get on a reality show and let it all hang out and become a celebrity
I know looks can be deceiving, but that last pic of Tiff is leaps and bounds ahead of the VH-1 version. I suppose if she were a part of the so-called right circle of people, she’d find work. I can’t really knock Nimoy’s main hustle (other than docs), since that franchise won’t run it’s course anytime soon.
Personally, I think the majority of her so-called “attitude” is an act. Just my humble opinion.
After looking at some of her other recent interviews and pics, I’m sure her former persona was an act to get ratings. She may not really be that way in person. Though I can’t hold her accountable for how an entire group of women are viewed, when in the spotlight we have a responsibility to use our platform for the better. I think she only helped to solidify the idea that Black women are classless, tasteless, sharp tongued and sexually available. A few commenters are saying that they’ve known women like her “Flavor of Love,” persona, and I’m sure it is true, as I’ve met Black women like her as well. However, I would caution everyone to not use the few to stereotype the many. I’ve met just as many classless and b*tchy White women as Black women and know lots of very quiet, sedate, intelligent Black women. It’s just that no one ever talks about them.
Wow, looks certainly can be deceiving. She looks so different in a great way than the other pics. I have meet few black women who behaved in a similar way though.
From this post I get the impression that Tiffany puts on the sapphire persona to meet and confirm the larger audience’s idea of black women. The shows provide, at the same time, entertainment and brain washing about black women’s image.
Tiffany’s real personality seems to be the opposite of the television one. Why is the media/society etc so bent on magnifying negative aspects of some black women?
whoot whoot to Kieron Pollard, I’m a huge cricket fan
Flavor of Love and all the other reality shows are just pure vomitus. I can’t watch. It hurts me. It is not entertaining. People believe what they see. I have know quite a few of these women in real life I avoided them like the plague.
Abagond, she is NOT in real housewives of atlanta. i repeat, she is not a part of that cast and never has been. great post, but inaccurate. might you have been thinking of nene leakes?
It’s my sense that these so-called reality shows are at least partly scripted, not in the sense that the shows have writers who create formal scripts with actual lines and actions that the actors rehearse and memorize, but rather coaching and encouragement by production staff to participant/actors to adopt certain personas or exaggerate certain behaviors, etc.
Tiffany “New York” Pollard is both a beneficiary and victim of this process. Beneficiary because by assuming the exaggerated Sapphire persona as urged by the show’s production team, she has enjoyed a surprising level of fame; victim because her fame has typcast her to exaggerated Sapphire roles and it’s unlikely she will ever move beyond that (Bruce Dern, anybody?).
Like Agabond, I found the program simultaneously repulsive — due to its blatant racial stereotyping and pandering to the basest notions of black women — and hard not to watch, like a bad car accident on the side of the freeway.
I really like that picture of Tiffany with what appears to be her natural hair…she looks cool and classy, a change from what we always see.
I’m pleasantly surprised to hear that she might not actually be the kind of person she portrays on TV. And I had no idea she was a mother of two. I’m not sure why she allows herself to be portrayed as a negative stereotype, but I guess the money and fame might be part of it.
I will be honest…I used to watch “Flavor of Love” a long time ago. I remember when that white woman spit on her. I still wonder how real that could have been. Or was it just for ratings and viewers?
Anyway, I agree with those that said they have actually encountered women who embodied the Sapphire stereotype in real life. I’ve met many of those women as well.
There have even been times when I was unfairly stereotyped as being mean or having an attitude problem and I look nothing like Tiffany on a physical level. I’m quiet, shy and soft-spoken. I don’t raise my voice unless I am truly angry and that is rare. I don’t swivel my neck or disrespect others.
The Sapphire stereotype is definitely fitting in some cases because we’ve all met that Black woman who is loud, obnoxious, rude, sharp-tongued and quick to catch an attitude over nothing. I have known many Sapphires in my life. So it is partly based on some truth.
But the stereotype is also problematic because it haunts Black women in general. People tend to believe that a few Sapphires represent all Black women, while women of other races are generally given a pass for poor behavior. Stereotypes are like a blanket or an umbrella…they cover people. And this is one stereotype that is very difficult to shake off because it is applied to the majority of Black women.
So people tend to ignore the Black women who are shy, sensitive, quiet, refined and focus mainly on the ones who are being ignorant. Then they conclude that all Black women are angry confrontational b*tches who will fight at the drop of a hat.
@Cinnamondiva
Very true. This is damaging enough.
I don’t know if you have also had the experience of meeting up with the minority of women who do choose this way of presenting themselves that they themselves say they are more truly and more authentically “black” than other black women who do not seek to fight or shout anyone down at the first opportunity? That we aren’t “real black women” because our way is quieter , cerebral, more sensitive – that this somehow (?) white-acting?
Abagond:
Why is it okay for blackwomen to punk themselves for white people? We come down hard on blackmen who act like clowns, but, not blackwomen. I support sistas making their own lane, as it relates to media, but it has to be on their terms. At this time, many of the reality shows that have a majority black female cast are created by and produced by whitemen…that’s a problem. As i’ve said many times, if we don’t own it, it doesn’t apply to us. What we call black culture is really not our culture anyway. BET is not run by us, Essence is not run by us, Vibe is not run by us, Hip-Hop is not run by us, and so forth. When are blackwomen gonna be militant-minded and stand up for themselves on this planet? Sistas have been kissing the behinds of whitewomen all these years, and it shows. Blackwomen need to wake up, Seriously!!!
Tyrone
“We come down hard on blackmen who act like clowns, but, not black women.Sistas have been kissing the behinds of whitewomen all these years, and it shows.”
On what planet???
@ Bulanik
It does seem that way, but I think that with more online communication, magazines, and books being written by Black women, this is changing. I also think that more Black women are in high profile leadership positions, and are getting an education beyond high school, so the standard is changing. I guess the powers that be still need the Sapphire image in order to be comfortable, hence the popularity of characters like New York, and some sisters still buy into the image.
@Cleonette
A lot of sistas in this country have been in denial about the kind of women that are present in media. The educated sistas complain about the urban sistas and vice-versa. Both groups of blackwomen are flawed. Sistas in the hood don’t love themselves as much as they should, and suburban sistas are uncomfortable being black. Yes, i’m generalizing to a certain degree, but you get the crux of what i’m saying Cleonette, Yes? Of course, i’m aware of the fact that many a sista in this country have been complaining about this issue. From a black male perspective, both sets of sistas are punking themselves for whitemen. Blackwomen are the #1 demographic for everything, yet, continue to be slighted in media, music, advertising, fashion, etc. At the same time, the uppity sistas will kiss the behinds of companies in the beauty and fashion industry who still hate on african beauty. Blackwomen are the trendsetters and standard bearers for women in general, so, why are they comfortable being a sidekick? Speaking for myself, i’m tired of watching shows built around blackwomen, and all i see is a bunch of whitewomen in commercials staring back at me, and ya’ll allow this bs to continue Cleonette…Real Talk! Thanks for replying back Queen, Always!!!
Tyrone
“There have even been times when I was unfairly stereotyped as being mean or having an attitude problem and I look nothing like Tiffany on a physical level. I’m quiet, shy and soft-spoken. I don’t raise my voice unless I am truly angry and that is rare. I don’t swivel my neck or disrespect others.”
I think this is a major problem, right here. A lot of people expect women in general, regardless of the race of the woman, to be always smiley, happy, and outgoing. If you are having an off day, or in a bad mood, or just simply don’t feel like engaging in trivial chit chat or being “smiley” toward everyone, your perceived as having an attitude problem. People will demand for you to change your facial expressions or tone to accomodate them, and if you aren’t willing to do that and accomodate them, then that’s seen as a negative behavior.
I think this is highly unfair that black women have this stereotype imposed upon them. Yes, there might be some black women who are quick to “get attitude” and be loud, but I’ve seen nasty attitudes from women of other races as well. I think that it’s simpy easier to call out black women, maybe because of different communication styles that are considered the norm among different groups of people, and also because of communication styles that are considered more threatening. From my observations, a lot of people simply aren’t comfortable with direct and assertive confrontation, which can then present a problem, if a black women has been more so taught that if she has a problem, she should speak up about it in the moment, while others will often choose more subtle yet hostile ways of showing that they don’t appreciate something. This doesn’t mean that there aren’t black women who engage in subtly hostile type of behavior as well, and not every black women is always going to use direct, assertive or even aggressive communication styles, but there are sometimes communication differences. I also think that a lot of people regarldess of race could use a lesson in how to communicate appropriately, especially when it comes to expressing anger, annoyance, etc.
In my personal experience, the one woman I’ve really seen who fit very well into the “Sapphire” stereotype was actually a former coworker of mine who was Puerto Rican. She had that neck swivel down really well, not to mention a loud mouth to go along with it. But if I’m not mistaken, Puerto Ricans usually get saddled with the “sassy” stereotype.
@ Bulanik…that is an interesting point. Some people have debated this about Whitney Houston. Some believe that her sophisticated, refined persona was all an act and she was just a roughneck girl from Newark. Others believe that she was really a shy, sweet person who acted “hood” due to her association with Bobby Brown. She took some criticism from blacks who felt that she was more like a white woman in her image and the way she presented herself. So who knows? Maybe she felt pressure to show her “down and dirty” side like she said in one interview, just to be more acceptable to other Black people and not feel like she sold out.
I can say that for me personally, I went through a phase as a teenager where I had to act tough to survive because I grew up in a mean neighborhood. That wasn’t really me but it’s who I needed to be if I wanted to avoid catching a beat-down for being a mixed light-skinned girl who “acted white” (according to some people).
So yeah, it is about proving yourself for some people. I was in a conundrum as it is because of my physical appearance so I also felt that I needed to fit in and be more “authentically black” in other ways. I couldn’t change my skin but I could try to sound more like the other black girls I knew and act like them, too. Now as an adult, I see how limiting this can be when we confine ourselves and others to narrow roles in life.
@introvertedwanderer…that is the truth! I’m not really a “smiler”. Not because I’m rude or anything, but I’m not one of those people who has a smile for everyone.
I take it you are probably an introvert like me, due to your name. I will smile and say hello to people out of courtesy but I’m not one to make nice 24/7. When I speak, some people hear “attitude” in my voice although I’m not shouting and my tone is pleasant. Or they will assume that I’m staring or rolling my eyes at them.
It is bizarre and quite frustrating to have certain things attributed to you because of a stereotype that people have in mind. I find myself having to modify a lot of things and watch myself just so I won’t be accused out of the blue of a bad attitude.
I’m probably one of the least threatening people you will ever meet, but some folks act like I’m scary.
Yes, women in general are expected to be bubbly and smiley all the time. I guess it is part of what society views as appropriate “feminine” behavior. I’m not the type to run around smiling and I don’t encourage familiarity (based on some negative experiences where people thought they could disrespect me because I’m nice)…so I’m that girl with the attitude.
Maybe it also comes from not being able to walk down the street as a young girl without being harassed and threatened. It really blows when grown men are leering at you and telling you to smile at them.
@Cinnamomdiva, exactly. I’ve heard about and read many experiences of black women who have had to adopt a “bad attitude” because they have faced street harassment from men, both young and old. For young black women, it often times depends on the community in which their family lives. If they live in an unsafe environment where unsaviory characters are hanging out on the street at all hours and have no qualms about harassing innocent passersbys then those young women can’t just smile and act friendly, because those innnocent friendly gestures are taken as a sign or welcome for advances, when really the girl or woman is just innocently tyring to go about her own business. I’ve lived in decent neighborhoods/communities throughout my life, but there have been times when I’ve been in certain places and I feel like I have to adopt a “mean mug” because I DO NOT want to be harassed.
And yes, you’re right, I am an introvert, and I’m not a naturally smiley person. Some people just aren’t naturally demonstrative, especially introverts.
I was having a discussion with my sister the other day about the register of peoples voices, and I think that many black people tend to have a lower register to their voices, including women, so that is another thing that can get black women accused of having a bad attitude, when really, to that woman, it’s just her normal speaking voice. Just because someone doesn’t have a higher pitch to their voice, doesn’t mean the person has an attitude problem.
@Cinnamondiva
It IS confining and narrowing. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I get what you mean about Whitney Houston having to prove stuff and being pressured both ways.
Pleasing people.
Doing what you have to do to get approval,
To belong, to fit in.
Fortunately for me I had one good thing in my favour: the huge luck of having been raised around many different nationalities, and even though it was rough and fairly poor area, I never came to associate gentle and elegant manners with “white people” simply because I was around too many girls and women from the South Asia, the African continent and the Caribbean islands who were just that: gentle and elegant, robust yet refined – like silk.
There was nothing incongruous about being feminine and black, “feminist” (!omg!) and unselfish, etc., etc., because the women I was around then could stand up for themselves – and others. They were sometimes weak, but they grew stronger, they survived…they had standards but were kind, they had pride yet were not narcissists, they were not selfish, they took care of others AND themselves, they never slapped other people down and showed off just for the sake of it. They had restraint.
However, it was at school that I encountered the idea that black+female meant something else to other folk. (I think I failed at being tough like that – because although I was definitely not white – instead: some kind of ‘black’ that was neither black, bi-racial, light-skinned or Asian and not simple to “place” – which meant hard times as an isolated youngster, but it helped me to appreciate and like other people’s qualities much more and like myself too in the process.)
I am not sure what Tyrone means when he says that “uppity” sisters punk themselves for the white man. The women and girls I knew — gentle, quietly-spoken, mannerly, who read books and such — punked themselves out to no-one, least of all white people. What an alien thought… :-//
For those black girls and women who did want to be rough and tough and cutting, they seemed to consider themselves (in their own words) “down-to-earth”, “real”, “hard-core”, “raw” and the rest…But much of it was an act.
A performance.
What do I really think of it all, now that I am an adult? I feel that women who used to scare the krap out of me with this act are like players on a stage they can not exit from. As much as I don’t like this “style” and presentation, as much as these women thunder and kick out, and flounce along in their sour way — they are no different from me, because they are no less multi-dimensional, and yearn, no less, for the opportunity to exercise their flexibility and define their outcomes, and long for a soft place to fall no less than the rest of us.
“Of all the stereotypes about blacks the Sapphire stereotype seems to be the truest in my experience. However none of the women I have come across were over-the-top like New York.”
that’s a strange way to think about stereotypes. It’s like saying the truest lie. Stereotypes, racial stereotypes to be specific, have no merit whatsoever. Do you find merit in any of the stereotypes about black men? or is it just the one’s about black women you find to be so true? The statement came off as pretty sexist. Imagine a white person saying, “The stereotypes about black people seem to be the truest in my experience.”
The Sapphire stereotype seems to be apart of the bigger stereotype of the angry, militant black person.
The thing about these stereotypes, is that they give the impression that black people and specifically black women aren’t allowed to be angry. It’s the impression that people don’t see the humanity in black people so when we express our emotions, our feelings, they can write it off as a black thing or a black woman thing. Other people don’t get labeled with these stereotypes because they’re seen as human beings with legitimate feelings.
Most black women I know don’t walk around angry all of the time, but we should have the right to get angry just like everyone else in the world. These stereotypes are being used as devices to control people, to dismiss people’s very appropriate reactions to injustice. No one fits a stereotype, but we can usually find a stereotype to fit a person when it suits our purpose.
“The thing about these stereotypes, is that they give the impression that black people and specifically black women aren’t allowed to be angry. It’s the impression that people don’t see the humanity in black people so when we express our emotions, our feelings, they can write it off as a black thing or a black woman thing. Other people don’t get labeled with these stereotypes because they’re seen as human beings with legitimate feelings. ”
Great comment. This is exactly what bothers me about the Sapphire stereotype and stereotypes in general. The only thing stereotypes end up doing is just pigeon-holing people and taking away from their humanity, consequently allowing for people to see each other as caricatures, instead of complex beings. The thing about it is that white people are the ones who largely created the stereotypes that are out there about black people since they controlled the representations of black people, so for black people to then buy into these stereotypes is silly and detrimental. Earlier today, I was watching a YouTube clip of Queen Latifah hosting an awards show and she was being her usual funny self making people laugh in the audience. And off course there were ignorant, trollish comments about how she was doing her “Fat black women” act. Like really, so because she is having fun, not taking herself seriously, and entertaining people, she fits a stereotype. Black people really can’t win. If it had been a white male telling jokes and acting a fool, they would have just commented that he is either funny or not funny, but they would have been far less likely to stereotype his behavior simply because of his race.
Is it me, or in the last picture she looks different. I mean, you know it’s her and it’s obvious that she looks different since the shows. Still, she appears to be more “gorgeous” for lack of a better word.
Anyway, when it comes to black women, it seems they can’t be human meaning that they can’t get angry or frustrated without someone calling her a “bitter black woman” (in polite conversation). Her negative emotions, temporary as they are, define her to the larger society like the way crime defines black men in society.
It’s crazy because black women are treated poorly in this society. Even black men take part in the dehumanization. Yet, when we see a black woman who is put down, or worse we expect them to act nice and calm and smile! WTF?
Also, if there are bitter black women, there’s no explanation as to why she is. Most of the time, I hear, “That’s why she can’t get a man.” The premise seems to be that the only path to black women’s true happiness is through men.
Another thing I hear is “Oh, she thinks she’s all that.” whenever they see black women with high self-esteems. Granted, I met some who were conceited, but there are others who think highly of themselves and others.
@solesearch & introvertedwanderer – your comments are full of excellent insight…the matrix of stereotypes make it nearly impossible for the humanity of individual black women to be seen for what it is.
@brothawolf – I hope black men, more and more, start to see, I mean really see, black women — and with more compassion and recognition of the particular dehumanization that we face.
And yes, in that last picture Ms Pollard looks great…the picture probably gives us a glimpse into the woman who she really is – a thinking person, a feeling person, a mother…so on and so forth.
I’m glad you did a post on Tiffany “New York” Pollard, I actually liked her. Watching her made me cringe but she was hilarious!
She reminded me of a few chicas I met in NY, they were really nice people but they said the funniest things with their NY accents that would come off as abrasive.
I don’t like those other shows like RH of Atlanta, Basketball Wives or Love and Hip-Hop–those women come off like skanks and prove that money cannot buy class. These shows need to be cancelled, they don’t represent the majority of black women at all–I hope the money was worth all the shame.
If this ‘Sapphire’ personality is suppose to mean that black women are loud and obnoxious, then Italien-American, Latina, and working-class white American women need to join the group as well because I’ve seen/heard some truly low-brow, obnoxious white women in New Jersey, NY, and Florida. (and I’m sure they can be found in other states)
@introvertedwanderer
That not necessarily true because even in my Small town in No where ville Mississippi. Alot of Black women are loud and obnoxious, alot of these women learn this from their parents, or television because they believe that this is the way black people suppose to act. To tell the truth alot of black people men and women from the south are loud because they think being loud makes them look smart or if they are ina n argument, they believe if I out yell you I win the fight. Maybe its just a southern thing.
My girlfriend revels in the saphire stereotype and numerous other, she is a work in progress. I hope
Bullsh!t. It sjust some modelling agency dressing her up to appeal to the “neo-soul” crowd (affluent middle-class Buppies.) It is important that we are not fooled by such gimmicks put forth by the media and advertising agencies.We should magazines and newspapers like Ad Age and the Wall Street Journal, so that we can understand these tricks and eventually, use them ourselves.
Idk why people get on black women in reality shows so much. White women act just as bad, if not worse, in reality television.
Teen Mom/16 and Pregnant, Jersey Shore, The Mobster show, Real World, Bad Girls Club. I may not avidly watch these shows, but I’ve seen enough to get the gist. If I based my perception of white women on reality television alone, I would have a pretty negative view of them.
@son2380…Maybe some people act that way because they think it is the only way they can be heard. I’m from the South too and I’ve observed some of the same things.
But maybe it’s also because of influences from older generations where Black folks were disrespected and dehumanized, especially in the South during Jim Crow and the movement for civil rights. Maybe some people taught their kids that they had to be louder and more assertive in order to survive, as opposed to the passive behavior that was encouraged by their own parents. This is just a guess.
Your girlfriend revels in that stereotype? Oy vey. Not something to be proud of. If she knew the history behind it, she would know it only serves to make all Black women look bad.
Some women love to declare themselves “strong Black women” but their behavior is cringe-worthy. But I also believe that in some cases they are only modeling what they grew up with, just like some Black men model the behavior they observed in other males growing up.
@ The Cynic…I couldn’t agree more.
@ Linda…girl, you ain’t neva lied.
@ solesearch…well said!
@ brothawolf…thank you so much for your heartfelt words. Both black men and women are treated like sh*t in this society but thank you for touching on this subject with such sensitivity and understanding.
Yes, many Black women are bitter and angry. Some are just nasty people, but others were made that way by experiences in life. Whether it is from abuse or a broken heart or some other kind of hurt.
When a woman is told that she is inferior and ugly compared to other races of women, she will naturally be hurt.
When a woman is told that she is more masculine (less of a woman) because of her race, she will be hurt.
When a woman is hit by stereotypes that are broadly applied to all the women of her same race and gender, she will be hurt. She is being viewed through a one-dimensional lens.
@ Bulanik…I like that picture because it shows a softer side of her. I know some people might see that image as false, but hopefully that is who she really is instead of what we’ve been accustomed to seeing.
She’s an individual living her life, and my annoyance of her stems out of my annoyance of “society” attributing what this one individual does in her life to the millions of other black women in America, and around the world. I think that’s pretty much it. Cause if society is going to believe everything they see on TV applies directly to reality, then I’d rather see reality on TV. But then again, maybe I’m just overreaching, since most of what’s on TV isn’t like reality, anyways. Never be quick to judge another person, simply by their appearance.
I just hate how a lot of black characters in shows and movies are typecast into certain personalities, when in reality, black people are just as diverse as anyone else. I love seeing black people playing characters that are different from the norm, because that makes them seem more real to me, and not just like characters.
When someone meets me, I feel like they expect me to act a certain way just because of our society that loves to label and stereotype everyone, especially minorities. It’s annoying, but I need to accept that this is the state of the world, and move on, or I’ll spend too much of my life being angered by something out of my control. It’s something I’m working on. People like Tiffany Pollard just don’t help the case, at all. It doesn’t matter how nice she is off camera. She’s already done the damage on camera.
Satanforce,
You said, “Bullsh!t. It sjust some modelling agency dressing her up to appeal to the “neo-soul” crowd (affluent middle-class Buppies.) It is important that we are not fooled by such gimmicks put forth by the media and advertising agencies.We should magazines and newspapers like Ad Age and the Wall Street Journal, so that we can understand these tricks and eventually, use them ourselves.”
*Sighs!* I knew it.
“There was nothing incongruous about being feminine and black, “feminist” (!omg!) and unselfish, etc., etc., because the women I was around then could stand up for themselves – and others. They were sometimes weak, but they grew stronger, they survived…they had standards but were kind, they had pride yet were not narcissists, they were not selfish, they took care of others AND themselves, they never slapped other people down and showed off just for the sake of it. They had restraint.
However, it was at school that I encountered the idea that black+female meant something else to other folk. (I think I failed at being tough like that – because although I was definitely not white – instead: some kind of ‘black’ that was neither black, bi-racial, light-skinned or Asian and not simple to “place” – which meant hard times as an isolated youngster, but it helped me to appreciate and like other people’s qualities much more and like myself too in the process.) ”
********
I LOVE THIS. : ))
@Matari — ah, school days…who would we be without them! LOL!
I had a recent talk with my mother (who is based in the US) and she said something about Sarah Palin that made me think. She said something like:
“Why is that Sarah Palin can spend her life willfully cultivating ignorance, show no grace both written and spoken, and is only seen as “folksy”?
She went on like this:
“Her daughter’s got a baby out of wedlock, how come that has NOT been presented as an example of both pathological behaviour? Dysfunctional family? Symbolic of the social problems in that community?
“She even goes to non-mainstream church and calls her opponents “not real Americans.”
And then she concluded by saying:
“But none of this un-qualifies or disqualifies Sarah Palin for any public office. If Sarah Palin were black woman she’d be tarred and feathered as an “affirmative action baby.”
I would also add that if she were black, she might be more closely compared to the Tiffany Pollards of this world as well, because, let’s look at Michelle Obama: the very same, very elegant and brilliant Miss Michelle who is the Princeton and Harvard Law School graduate, lawyer, and university dean who made over $200K p.a, yet…and of course…and despite this…regardless…. gets called “ghetto” and a “welfare queen”.
(sorry about those dyslexic typos**)
Thanks ‘Dee’, ‘Bulniak and ‘Matari’. So, the ‘average’ ‘black American’ woman is a/the sapphire’. wow.
@introvertedwanderer
It’s funny that you mentioned the puerto-rican woman in your post. How many times have you and other sistas seen the hot-blooded latina on a tv show, commercial, or movie? If the woman is mixed or white, it’s okay for them to be sassy so to speak, Why? Again, whitemen projecting onto women their true desires. Other women who just happen to have some african blood in them are suitable replacements, more or less. Italian and spanish-speaking women can get away with portraying the Sapphire stereotype because they’re not blackwomen. Oftentimes, sistas forget that whitemen haven’t really changed that much, as it relates to how they view black womanhood and sexuality. Yes, this post is about Tiffany Pollard aka New York, but, let’s not give whitemen a pass on this issue because they control content. If they didn’t desire sistas like her, they wouldn’t be on tv. Once she stopped being the hot-blooded, hypersexual sista, they lost interest in her faux persona…this is the lesson of Tiffany Pollard to other blackwomen in media. Whitewomen can get away with being trashy, but, that doesn’t apply to other women, specifically blackwomen. Which is why sistas who do fall into the trap are playing themselves. The only way a sista can get away with that mindset, is if, she’s spreading her legs for those in power. Hollywood is still the same, ain’t nothing changed people. As to so-called good sistas, they’ve stayed quiet about all of this because they don’t wanna be called names and seen as “Not Down” for the cause, which is bull****. When did being unrefined and stupid become a black thing? Just because a sista can speak and write well, that makes her less black in the eyes of other black folk? I speak well, am i being white by doing so? This is the stupidity that we have to deal with as a race. Sistas have the right to express all of their emotions, but, it has to be on their terms.
Tyrone
What if a black woman had approached Bill Clinton or George W. Bush and wagged her finger in the way this white woman behaved towards the American President?
Would an angry black woman have been apprehended and handcuffed if she had behaved this way to Clinton or Bush?
Here is a picture of Miley Cyrus dressed up in with an South Asian Indian bindi on her forehead…and a dream catcher necklace. It’s cute, young fashion, to some.
http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/fp_5939482_cyrus_miley_riv_102310.jpg
A white girl may mimic other cultures and it can be be viewed as quirky, cute, and interesting. But black girls or wome who fashionably rock bamboo earrings, gold nameplate necklaces, and blonde streaked weaves, seem inevitably be considered “ghetto”….
@Bulanik
Would an angry black woman have been apprehended and handcuffed if she had behaved this way to Clinton or Bush?
Yep. Apparently a non angry Black woman is a fallacy
@Demerera
Angry? As in “dangerous”, you mean?
@Bulanik
Angry? As in “dangerous”, you mean?
Yep and with superhuman strength ‘apparently’ – no matter their size or stature….
@Demerera
Strong. Invulnerable. Impervious to pain. Without what a “feminine” component.
Also un-rape-able…which is why the sexual violence visited upon black women in the Americas has historically carried
- no public name,
- manufactured no significant public censure, and,
- is seen as an irrelevant, insignificant and divisive gender issue that diverts black politics from its real job of fighting racism. Black women were raped, yet their pain and suffering remained largely invisible. Whereas lynching (racism) was public spectacle, rape (sexism) signaled private – very private – humiliation.
That sort of thing.
Whereas white women are dainty and in need of protection…
@Demerera
And, of course, the terrible irony of that image of the white woman standing next to Mr Obama like that, 100 years ago, could have seen him beaten, if not lynched.
@Bulanik
Strong. Invulnerable. Impervious to pain. Without what a “feminine” component.
Yes, yes and yes. You know Abagond did a post entitled ‘White Women’s tears?’. I doubt it would occur to people to write using the same title about black women. BW are deemed as immune to having ‘feelings’ so, I guess people dont think BW cry. Even manipulative tears, as was the main crux of the ‘WW tears thread’ would not evoke an empathetic response if it was a BW doing the crying.
@Demerera
What alarms most people about the Tiffany Pollard persona is the anger, I think. Looking at it closer, anger is something which is near-invisible ON white people. We have angry black women and Black Rage, but no white equivalent – and not attached to the femininity of white women! Certainly not!
But the little I have seen of Newt Gingrich, he always strikes me of whiteman’s rage personified. But he gets applauded for it. I cannot think of a white woman who has a permanent anger-attachment. I think that culturally, Americans seem to reserve notions of female anger for black women.
@Demerera
Could the Tiffany Pollard persona have feminine or even human weaknesses of say, Winona Ryder? and, have her wrong-doing explained away as something intensely personal – or just a predictable outgrowth of being black (i.e. “ghetto”)?
@Bulanik
But the little I have seen of Newt Gingrich, he always strikes me of whiteman’s rage personified. But he gets applauded for it.
Gordon Ramsay springs to mind here….imagine a black chef doing what he does….
Trash, Trash, Trash, Trash. She was a disgrace then and still is now.
The women I’ve encountered the most that fit this stereotype were Korean women. In the 80′s and early 90′s when I was in stationed in Korea Korean women were notorious for this behavior. Of course not all were like that but far too many that were around American military bases were. I’ve often wondered where these stereotypes come from. Asians eat more water melon than even the most country African Americans I’ve seen or been related to but yet that’s a black myth. These silly myths are really believed in countries with little or no black people overseas to counter this. When the few they encounter act like they’ve seen in movies and old TV shows they think it’s true. Tiffany’s behavior really sets this to be true in many people’s eyes.
There’s a really good ted talk on stereotypes that I’d like to share, but I’m not really sure how to embed videos on wordpress, so excuse me if this doesn’t work.
[ted id=652]
http://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_adichie_the_danger_of_a_single_story.html
@Bulanik
Whitewomen are not relevant to the convo. They’re being used by whitemen just the same. Blackwomen are the issue, and have been since the start of slavery and colonialism. I want sistas to stop injecting white females into the argument…whitewomen just happen to be the female version of whitemen, that’s all they are. They get away with being contrary, because their so-called beloved whiteman is in control…Ditto! I don’t believe the bs that comes out of white culture, and blackwomen shouldn’t either.
Tyrone
Tyrone, my point is not ABOUT white women.
Where do you get that from and what makes you think it is always that predictable?
Rather, I wanted to turn the spotlight on the corner that black women (and men) are supposed to occupy when you change the angles of perspective.
@Bulanik
Feel free to set me straight if i’m wrong sista. Yes, a blackwoman would be viewed differently by society if they wagged their finger in the face of Obama, i get that. But, sistas shouldn’t base their conduct on how they will be compared to whitewomen. Instead, they should be more concerned about how their behavior in media affects other blackwomen and their children first and foremost. Bulanik, white folks and other folk have no real power over black people, we bestow influence to others because we’re being stupid. Blackwomen need not play themselves for Maury Povich, Jerry Springer, and the rest of them. Are blackwomen free in every aspect, Yes or No sistas? Bulanik, blackwomen matter. Their happiness, safety, health, success are important to our race, and humanity in general…The Fight Continues!!!
Tyrone
@Tyrone
Whitewomen are not relevant to the convo. They’re being used by whitemen just the same.Blackwomen are the issue, and have been since the start of slavery and colonialism. I want sistas to stop injecting white females into the argument…whitewomen just happen to be the female version of whitemen, that’s all they are. They get away with being contrary, because their so-called beloved whiteman is in control…Ditto! I don’t believe the bs that comes out of white culture, and blackwomen shouldn’t either
As per Bulanik’s response …Rather, I wanted to turn the spotlight on the corner that black women (and men) are supposed to occupy when you change the angles of perspective….
…when you look at it from a different perspective, certain behaviours are not judged as harshly if they are present in WP as they would be if it were a BP. It is unfortunately true. That is all that is being said here. WW are not wholly responsible for this and I dont feel that this was the crux of the comments either.
I gave the example above of Gordon Ramsay the chef – do we honestly think that he would lauded for his behaviour if he was a black man? Would he even get airtime I wonder? Perhaps, but only to highlight this bullish, brutish ogre, even if his food was out of this world that certainly would not be the main topic of conversation. The same with a footballer – Vinny Jones. He has seemingly grown in stature due to his thuggish reputation on the football pitch!!!! I concede that maybe it is an act and that perhaps he plays up this persona but nevertheless, he hasnt done too bad out of Hollywood in terms of being cast in movies. The same with Mark Wahlberg who, from what I have seen and read of him prior to finding fame, had all the negative attributes associated with this Tiffany female i.e. “Loud, foul-mouthed, ill-mannered, short-tempered, low-class, overbearing and in-your-face”. The colour of skin you are in often affects how and in what way people will tolerate certain behaviours – thats all that is being said.
@Tyrone.
I am not sure where you get that I say or imply that black women should base our conduct on how we will be compared to white women.
I am not saying that at all. No, no.
And, tell me this, Tyrone – how is idea of “black women copying white women” is predictable for you? How do YOU know that is the way I am thinking or where I am going? That presumption is quite wrong. Could you underestimate the quality and seriousness of our minds in this discussion, Tyrone?
No, Tyrone, “copying” is not the way I am going or thinking at all.
First, it is not my place to tell or direct any other black woman on where she should or should not be directing herself. That is not my place and it certainly is not yours, either.
However, no matter how trashy her image is or how repugnant her personal conduct might be – Tiffany Pollard and women that seem like her – are vulnerable human beings, and their humanity is often, if not always, thrown under the bus in life and in the media..
I might not like Tiffany’s style, and she might not like mine, but she is flesh of my flesh.
Second, let us look at privilege – and here is my point – let us look at the kind of privilege that the Tiffany Pollard – and those black women that are stuck with that kind of image and PERSONA – does not have.
(By persona, I mean an act that people think is so true and common it can’t just be a stereotype and applies to practically ALL black women).
The thing about privilege is that it is so ubiquitous that it’s invisible.
Sarah Palin has it. Miley Cyrus has it. Gordon Ramsey has it.
It is so pervasive as to be normalized, and so normalized as to be visible only in its absence.
This means the vast, vast, vast majority of institutions, spaces, and subcultures privilege male interests, AND white interests, but because male is the default in this culture, white is the default in this culture, such interests are very often considered ungendered and colour-less.
White women have their own very special category – as we know.
As a result, we only really notice when something privileges female interests.
What we tend to forget when we revile Tiffany’s “black bytch” persona is that she personifies neither of those particular privileges.
Tyrone – sometimes my dyslexia gets the upper hand, and makes my writing unclear. My apologies for that. The 2nd paragraph should read like this:
And, tell me this – how is the idea of “black women copying white women” so predictable for you? How do YOU know that is the way I am thinking or where I am going? I did not say that. I did not imply that. And, nor do I mean that.
That presumption is quite wrong. Could you be underestimating the quality and seriousness of our minds in this discussion, Tyrone?
@Demerara
Mark Wahlberg, while he was abusing PCP, blinded an elderly Vietnamese man. He was releasled from jail with less than 15% time served. 3 months after his release, he gave “Good Vibrations” to the world.
@ Cinnamondiva, your coment hit the nail on the head for me!
”I take it you are probably an introvert like me, due to your name. I will smile and say hello to people out of courtesy but I’m not one to make nice 24/7. When I speak, some people hear “attitude” in my voice although I’m not shouting and my tone is pleasant. Or they will assume that I’m staring or rolling my eyes at them.
It is bizarre and quite frustrating to have certain things attributed to you because of a stereotype that people have in mind. I find myself having to modify a lot of things and watch myself just so I won’t be accused out of the blue of a bad attitude.
I’m probably one of the least threatening people you will ever meet, but some folks act like I’m scary.
Yes, women in general are expected to be bubbly and smiley all the time. I guess it is part of what society views as appropriate “feminine” behavior. I’m not the type to run around smiling and I don’t encourage familiarity (based on some negative experiences where people thought they could disrespect me because I’m nice)…so I’m that girl with the attitude.
Maybe it also comes from not being able to walk down the street as a young girl without being harassed and threatened. It really blows when grown men are leering at you and telling you to smile at them.”
I get self conscious and worry that other people won’t like me, which matters alot when you are introverted…its easy for people to make rumors or exaggeration about you when you don’t have enough people to vouch for you, due to you not being sociable. And once someone places that negative label on you school or the workplace can be hell. An as someone in my 20’s, its frustrating to have to worry about pleasing people or getting catcalls by strangers, its like I am forever in middle/high school. Urrrrgh!!!
I love Issa Rae for making ”Awkward Black Girl,” that is an image I have yet to see on tv itself. Black women are reduced to is sassy, ghetto, chruchy, mammy, token, etc.
You know, I never really liked ‘New York’ by Frank Sinatra. I don’t know, it’s one of those…drunk dad at a wedding songs.
But there’s a blues-style cover version of ‘New York’ by Cat Power. Better than the original…Amazing
I liked Tiffany and understood she was just a character, may be a little over bearing but anyone with sense would know that was not all to her personality (no ones personality is one dimensional) i indeed felt she was putting on that side more so.
Hello, how are you ?