Maclean’s, a weekly news magazine in Canada, printed an article in their November 10th 2010 issue called “‘Too Asian’?” It is about how “too many” “Asians” are getting into top universities in Canada.
Some Asian Canadians do not like how the article sees them through racist stereotypes. First, they are seen as narrow, soulless grade grinds. Second, and worse still, they are not even seen as Canadians but some kind of foreign threat (the perpetual foreigner stereotype).
The article has an “us against them” mindset where “us” means upper-middle-class white Canadians and “them” means Asians of any sort, whether from mainland China or suburban Toronto.
Maclean’s sees the interests of Canada and white people as being one and the same. It cannot separate the two. Anyone who is not white is some kind of threat.
And strangely different.
I was always taught that hard work and education were good things, that one makes sacrifices for one’s own education and that of one’s children; that in a just world one should be judged on merit regardless of colour.
I thought most people felt that way, even white people. After all, in America whites like to complain that blacks are unwilling to work hard and do not value education.
But according to Maclean’s these are “Asian” values:
The value of education has been drilled into Asian students by their parents … there’s a long tradition in Chinese culture, for example, going back to Confucius, of social mobility based on merit.
So wait, whites do not drill this stuff into their children’s heads? And if they are not teaching them to succeed on merit, what in the world are they teaching them?
Maclean’s sees Asians as being so strange and different that they talked to an expert on the “parenting styles of immigrants as they relate to education” (notice the perpetual foreigner stereotype).
When Asian parents want their children to go to the best university possible – something I thought everyone wanted – they are called “single-minded in their approach to university”.
When white students do not want to study hard to get a good education but would rather spend more time partying, drinking and playing sports, they are not called “lazy”, “undisciplined” “irresponsible” or “uncompetitive”. No, it is called:
a sacrifice of time and freedom they’re not willing to make.
Reading Maclean’s you would think that whites want a free ride: a good life without having to work hard for it.
Maclean’s even has doubts about judging people on merit regardless of colour:
Likely that is a good thing. And yet, that meritocratic process results, especially in Canada’s elite university programs, in a concentration of Asian students.
Yet if whites are unwilling to work hard and do not value education, then they do not really belong at the nation’s best universities. As simple as that. After all, that is just what blacks in America are told when they are stereotyped in the same way.
See also:
It is very difficult for me to sympathize with Asians, knowing that most have 0 tolerance for Blacks. most are very discrimenatory, cold, and inconsiderate to Blacks (atleast I have witnessed this on several occasions). Many would join and or support maltreatment of Black. Asians are not benign or benevolent to Blacks.
I often find that the complaint of Asians about maltreatment are often unsubstantiated, and more of a whin. Just my honest opinion.
Fancyface.
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I am kind of curious. Is it statistically proven that “Asians” (really, in Canada, read “Chinese” most of the time) are, as a whole, better in school than white people?´
Apart from that, yeah, “Asians” is kind of a weird description, seeing as they are in general “Canadians”.
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good post. and very revealing of the way that institutional whiteness plays musical chairs w/the race narrative to improve outcomes for whites–constantly moving the goal post. if not enough whites get into top schools, it’s due to asians being to overachieving & socially inept. but, on the other hand, if whites can’t get into top schools, it’s because all those dumb blacks getting over through AA.
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@fancyface
It is very difficult for me to sympathize with Asians, knowing that most have 0 tolerance for Blacks. most are very discrimenatory, cold, and inconsiderate to Blacks (atleast I have witnessed this on several occasions). Many would join and or support maltreatment of Black. Asians are not benign or benevolent to Blacks.
I often find that the complaint of Asians about maltreatment are often unsubstantiated, and more of a whin. Just my honest opinion.
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That is a ‘cold’ perspective, but one that I have experience with. Not so much about ‘sympathizing, but, understanding it from ‘Temples’ assertion, that this is just the ‘anglo version of minority blame game musical chairs’.
And yes, most Asians have zero tolerance for Black Americans. zip, zilch, zero. Whether in business, academia or in social interactions.
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Isn’t the “perpetual foreigner” categorization common around the globe for minority immigrants regardless of race?
Recall that Theresa Heinz Kerry was roundly lambasted for calling herself African American even though she grew up in Mozambique.
An example of the criticism she received:
…Ron Walters, chairman of the political science department at Howard University, objected to Heinz Kerry’s use of the term regardless of the hyphen. Walters told the Sentinel that she was not African, but a European living in Africa.
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@fancyface:
While I can understand your reasoning for not sympathizing with Asians as many of them hold racist, negative attitudes towards Blacks, please note not all of us are like that. As an Asian, I grew up with predominantly white people and I have experienced my share of racial mistreatment. Perhaps that is why, to this day, I want to be around all people of colour because I can relate to them better. And when the article mentions Asians, it’s mostly referring to those of East Asian descent i.e. Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Why I’ve had some East Asians say I’m not “Asian” enough because I happen to be Filipino. Btw, many East Asians look down at SE Asians, too.
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Oyan writes, “And yes, most Asians have zero tolerance for Black Americans. zip, zilch, zero. Whether in business, academia or in social interactions.”
You are correct. I have written extensively about Asian racism. Most Asians have an irrational fear of blacks and generally view them in extremely stereotypical ways. But then again, my general impression of blacks is that they also view Asians as walking stereotypes. “Ching chong ching chong?”
The Mcleans article has already been discussed on many blogs. The author is clearly writing to provoke people, creating caricatures of Asians as grinds and whites as lazy party animals.
Thomas Epsenshade has pointed out that if American Universities ended race-based admissions policies, then 4/5 of the spots vacated by NAMs would be given to Asians. Ending affirmative action in higher education would mostly benefit Asians, not whites. This would create high concentrations of Asians at almost all of the elite universities, with 30%-50% of the student bodies being Asian. NAM enrollments would drop. Many of the top US universities could then be considered “Too Asian” (already a term used to describe Cal and UCLA and slowly beginning to be affixed to elite private schools, though their de facto quotas ensure “Too Asian” does not happen). How do you liberals feel about this?
Asian success is tied to HBD, but HBD does not explain it all. HBD is not biological determinism, per se, but it acknowledges biological differences, whether they be group differences or individual differences.
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@ Oyan:
I acknowledge your honesty. But why is it then that with the overwhelming animosity that Asians harbor against Blacks, yet they seek to to ally with Blacks, when faced with the merest friction with whites.
Why not fight your Battles yourselves?… Why all of a sudden, then, see it fit to ally with the group that you have no tolerance for when faced with problems with whites, but when all becomes well, you cosider this ally with nothing but contempt, and disregard??
What makes this habit honorable?
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@Fancyface
Please give me an example of a situation in which Asians have “allied” with blacks against whites. I don’t think this is a widespread phenomenon.
Not everything is a race war.
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funny story
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@ Asian of Reason:
Your rational in your posting is racist based. You assume that most Blacks in many top US universities gained entrance courtesy of affirmative action. Again, this is typical of you Asians to reason in this manner, and that if affirmative action were to end, that Black admissions would decline, an act that would benefit Asians.
Again, how predictable of you Asians to reason this way. Very myopic minded!
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I can relate to where Fancy is coming from and agree but I also agree with Leigh.
Also, I know so many American born Asians who don’t even consider themselves American. I wonder if this is the same as in Canada. But I guess my point is that many times the stereotypes I hear about Asians I hear FROM Asians.
But, from observation, it seems that culturally Asians are just more blunt. How many times have I been told the story from an Asian girl how people she barely knows calls her fat. Or her eyes are too small.
Also, I don’t think all Asians don’t like blacks because I’ve heard many not liking latino’s. I have a korean friend whose parents don’t want him to be latino women but don’t mind black women. My bf’s mom is the same way *well, she doesn’t want anyone Chinese but I think she gave up, LOL*.
And I have heard so many stories of Asian guys who got beat up by black girls when they were younger. I never understood this. Or some black person making fun of Asians.
In my personal and humble opinion I think whites are getting more hush hush if they have racial issues. So hush hush that if not spoken the racism is kind of forgotten. Does this make sense? But with Asians they aren’t called out on their racism and it seems to be accepted. I get told by so many Asians how their parents are racist and don’t like so and so group. But they don’t say it with shame. If my parents were racist I would say it with shame and anger. But they say it as a matter of fact and almost an acceptance to it. Not all!
And can someone answer me this? Whhhhy do they feel it is ok to say N***ah! and in FRONT of me of all people! Sheesh.
@Leigh, yea I dated a Japanese guy who didn’t consider SE Asians Asian. But he was a dip**** so his words are very invalid!!
*sorry for my tagent. I think I went off topic*
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@fancyface:
I do not speak for Asian of Reason because I think he’s NOT an Asian of reason. But really now. “You Asians?”
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http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2009/10/affirmative-action-numbers.html
http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2005/06/asian-americans-hurt-by-affirmative.html
I drew my conclusions from studies done by Thomas Epsenshade, a Princeton Sociologist. Even though I like to refer to myself as “the Asian of Reason”, this is not my “reasoning”. My reasoning is not “racist based” unless you consider “reasoning” itself a racist act. Please refer me to the studies that indicate there will be no drop in black admissions if affirmative action were to be ended.
Thank you.
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It may not be your reasoning but you could side with a racist reasoning. Not saying you are racist or anything but just putting that out there.
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Lots of Latinos work for Asians at restaurants and grocery stores. I’ve never seen Asians work for Latinos. I wonder why this is? I think it is funny that many times Asians and Latinos interact and none of them speak English.
Have you read Asian of Reason’s blog? That guy is hella racist. You should go read it. He’s involved in HBD movement as well.
I think HBD is true for things like athletics. But intelligence is tricky. I think East Asians are probably genetically smarter than all other “races”, but I think blacks are probably equal to whites in intelligence.
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@Mei Ly:
Oh, wow. I’m sorry someone said this to you. That’s very wrong! And unacceptable! Again, I can only speak for myself, but from my experience, I have heard some Asians say the n-word. One time I asked how they could say such a thing and their answer: it was a way of greeting others. Sometimes, they would do a word spin with the n-word. For example, I’m Filipino and I’ve heard, “Wassup my f…..”
Now going back to the n-word, I knew from an early age, you never, ever say that word as it’s derogatory and dehumanizing to blacks. Also, when I was a child, I learned through my mother that there was a Philippine-American war in the early 20th century, and Filipinos were referred to as the n-word.
It’s funny because if you look at my pic on the side, I look “Asian”, no?
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Well I heard that southeast Asians have lower IQs than East Asians. This is probably why. Are Japanese, Chinese, and Korean people just plan superior?
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agreed that if AA ended black admissions wld drop. not due to lack of qualified black applicants, but due to white resentment of perceived pass given to blacks–it would be a chance for some ‘get back’.
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@ Asian of Reason:
I do not have to lend credibility to nonsense writen by a racists. Any baiased person can publish or write anything just as you presently are doing, this however does not credit their reasoning or yours as worthy as far as the rational world is concerned.
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@Frank Kim:
No, they’re not.
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As I said earlier, I’m not sure my IQ but my bf is Chinese and I go as “Black”. Why am I helping him out with his homework almost EVERY night?! In fact, I had more intelligence with all of my boyfriends. Or maybe it was more common sense? LOL!
Even my ex bf who is an Investment Broker commented on how smart I was and I think I intimidated him with my knowledge. I hope this does not come off racist but I think their smarts are book “smarts”. It’s read, memorize, and repeat.
@Leigh…I think East Asians just have superiority complex. It reminds me of the mindset of Nazi Germany during WW2.
I really can not see how East Asians are smarter or have a higher IQ because I have NOT seen it. Not to be mean, but many I have met in my area seem a bit…well, I won’t say. But yea, *sigh*.
But I should stop because I think I am sounding very negative about Asians!! I do not want to come out this way. I think I just become frustrated. So, I hope I have not deeply offended anyone.
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“Well I heard that southeast Asians have lower IQs than East Asians.”
You mean, that you heard that Southeast Asians tested lower on I.Q. tests than East Asians.
But how would you determine that one group was smarter than the other?
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Do HBDer’s not date outside their race so their children will not have low IQ’s? Just curious.
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@”fancyface; “I acknowledge your honesty. But why is it then that with the overwhelming animosity that Asians harbor against Blacks, yet they seek to to ally with Blacks, when faced with the merest friction with whites.
Why not fight your Battles yourselves?… Why all of a sudden, then, see it fit to ally with the group that you have no tolerance for when faced with problems with whites, but when all becomes well, you cosider this ally with nothing but contempt, and disregard??
What makes this habit honorable?
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They are NOT blk American allies; they are simply bandwagonning, in a separate wagon, with the ‘ongoing fight’ of blk America. In a sense, co-opting the ‘ paradigm struggle’ of blk Americans. Can’t say I blame them entirely, but given their contempt, disdain and even racist ideology about blk Americans, I see it as, dishonest and disengenuous. Smacks of cowardice. Most immigrant, or native ‘other’ groups do this when necessary; the historical blueprint against yt racism fought by blk Americans is there, so, why not ‘use it? But I agree, why not fight their own battles? Well maybe they ‘see’ that they have more to lose, they see us as ‘the muscle’, they really do get along w yts, but use the ‘blk model of resistance’ as a ‘shield’; they can say ‘just like blacks’, keeping ‘us’ present metaphysically or spiritually, and then they can catch ‘less hell’.
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“But why is it then that with the overwhelming animosity that Asians harbor against Blacks”
I ask that you please provide ANY evidence beyond your own personal experiences, and the secondhand stories of your friends that there is an OVERWHELMING ANIMOSITY that Asians [as a whole] harbor against Blacks.
If you have even one proof I’d be very interested to see it.
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leigh204: “As an Asian, I grew up with predominantly white people and I have experienced my share of racial mistreatment. Perhaps that is why, to this day, I want to be around all people of colour because I can relate to them better.”
Southeast asians are as bigoted as anyone else, and in my experience way more open about it than white folks. In personal and professional environments over the years, I’ve heard Malaysians, Filipinos, and Indonesians denigrating the appearance of their ethnic kinfolk based entirely on skin color.
If you’re as light-complected as your icon image suggests, I’ll bet your mother has heard a great many fellow Filipinos complement how pretty you looked based entirely upon your color.
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“Why not fight your Battles yourselves?… Why all of a sudden, then, see it fit to ally with the group that you have no tolerance for when faced with problems with whites, but when all becomes well, you cosider this ally with nothing but contempt, and disregard?”
So, it’s the exact same group of Asians that dislike Black people who then come and try to join the Black civil rights bandwagon?
I mean, it couldn’t be that *some* Asians dislike Blacks, and *some* choose to join with Blacks on issues like civil rights? It’s the exact same two-faced, hypocritical, group of Asians, eh?
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Randy, the colorism thing is in almost every culture worldwide. SE Asians as well as East Asian.
I knew a Japanese girl whose grandmother was mad her mother married a dark skin Japanese. And when she was young her grandmother would try to wash the darkness away. *rolls eyes*
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@ Asian of Reason:
Which of your Alias would you rather be addressed as:
Asian of Reason, or King?….Please be consistent.
BTW, you claim Asians are the most intelligent people on earth, your postings contradict this claim.
You yourself has fallen short of your claim. You’re a fraud!
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@King
I do know the same Asians who cry racism are also the same Asians who use the N word.
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@ fancyface
HAHAHA! Asian of Reason must be choking, if you think he’s me! We’ve had our own run-ins, in the past.
Besides, I don’t think Asians are the “most intelligent people in the world.” I wouldn’t even put that on a color or culture… it would be meaningless.
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I’m pleased to hear that your own incoherency amuses you.
Truely a pleasure!
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“I do know the same Asians who cry racism are also the same Asians who use the N word.”
Yeah, I know… And some of my own Black peeps who will go and dog out African people like they were a bunch of backward Jungle fools.
Hypocrisy is a hat that get’s worn all over.
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@ Randy Garver:
leigh204: “As an Asian, I grew up with predominantly white people and I have experienced my share of racial mistreatment. Perhaps that is why, to this day, I want to be around all people of colour because I can relate to them better.”
Please show me in my post where I said SE Asians aren’t bigoted like everyone else? Btw, the white people I have come across have been more open about their bigotry so spare me. One thing you are correct about is that SE Asians I have known have put down fellow SE Asians due to their skin being dark.
If you’re as light-complected as your icon image suggests, I’ll bet your mother has heard a great many fellow Filipinos complement how pretty you looked based entirely upon your color.
Nope. The honour goes to my sister and she’s darker complected than I am.
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Just dropping by to point something out: Even if all Asians on the planet were racist regarding black folk, that still wouldn’t make racism against them okay in any way. Two wrongs do not make one right, it’s a simple concept.
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Very very true Zemo!!
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@Mei Ly I’m a Canadian, and I know that we usually refer to Asians as Asian. We refer to most people by their place of origin, unless they are white or of the black diapora.
@Frank Kim I find that Mei Ly’s comments are right. Most of the East Asians tend to just memorize everything, and they take a lot of time to do it. However, I have met many dumb E Asians and SE alike. I have also met smart ones from both groups. You can’t just stereotype.
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@King
I agree. And it is a very sad thing.
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@ Zemo:
Correct!…. What is even better is that we correct the first wrong, that way, there will be no second wrong.
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@King
you wrote: I ask that you please provide ANY evidence beyond your own personal experiences, and the secondhand stories of your friends that there is an OVERWHELMING ANIMOSITY that Asians [as a whole] harbor against Blacks.
If you have even one proof I’d be very interested to see it.
Besides personally experiencing it I do see it in Korean dramas and Korean artists. Look up The Bubble Sisters * I think that is the name*. Also, some racist acts towards a black lady who is fluent in Korean named Lindsey. She was singing in Korean on a show and a guy came out in black face. Their dramas have racism in it. Not just towards blacks but SE Asians. Watch the drama Golden Bride. In another drama I saw a girl told the guy to be careful of black people because the are savages.
And that Koreans tell me themselves how their parents don’t like black people.
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Oh…and in their music they use the N word a lot.
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The value of education has been drilled into Asian students by their parents … there’s a long tradition in Chinese culture, for example, going back to Confucius, of social mobility based on merit.
So wait, whites do not drill this stuff into their children’s heads? And if they are not teaching them to succeed on merit, what in the world are they teaching them?
Yet if whites are unwilling to work hard and do not value education, then they do not really belong at the nation’s best universities. As simple as that. After all, that is just what blacks in America are told when they are stereotyped in the same way.
Check and mate.
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@ Mei Ly
There is a difference between saying that you can find incidents of ant-Black racism in Asian societies. After all, you can even find incidents of anti-Black racism even in Black societies.
The question I posited however, was if OVERWHELMING animosity could be conferred upon the vast majority of Asians, based on the siting of these incidents.
Because we could certainly amass evidence of racist actions on either sides of any racial divide, yes?
“Korean businesses were the primary target of looters in the 1992 Los Angeles riots, as Los Angeles holds the nation’s largest Korean-American community of 145,000. Korean Merchants suffered five shop owners killed, 2,100 businesses burned, more than $350 million in damage, or nearly half the city’s total from the riots…
…One year after the riots fewer than one in four damaged or destroyed businesses reopened, according to the survey conducted by the Korean American Inter-Agency Council.[1] According to a LA Times survey conducted eleven months after the riots almost 40% of Korean-Americans said they were thinking of leaving Los Angeles.”
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@ Mei Ly
“Oh…and in their music they use the N word a lot.”
So do we… we just put an “a” at the end, and declare that it’s no longer offensive.
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Ah, i see your point King.
To me, and it is only opinion and not fact, I think majority of Asians are racist or at least have a strong prejudice against blacks. The racism and prejudice from asians is very very overwhelming because the examples I gave come from their mainstream entertainment, meaning, those ideologies are favored and not challenged. Seeing black face to them is an interesting thing. They still show Africans as a caricature with the spear and no clothes on in childrens books. Racism. like in white america is bred into them.
But to be fair, my “expertise” is more on Korean culture since I have “grown” up with it since I was very young. I can not say ALL Asian countries. Perhaps Leigh has more knowledge on this.
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We shouldn’t use the N word either. and they put the ah at the end too. But I find it more offensive they use it than if a black person uses it. They probably have no idea the cultural background to that word. or maybe they do. A korean guy did call me the N word…with the er at the end.
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I think he thought it was funny because he started laughing.
My Korean former girl friend used to be like, what’s up my n. And I told her to stop and she didn’t. Until I..well, I won’t say what I did but she got the point and stopped.
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@ King:
You ask of proof of Asian racism against Blacks? How ridiculous your demand. Whitout further extension, am I to believe that you have difficulty comprehending the first hand accounts and statements acknowledging the existence of Asian racism towards blacks by your fellow Asians on this thread or should I not weiver from that old age believe that racists prefer to remain perpetually ignorant of the truth?
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@fancyface…in case you were referring to me in the “fellow asians” i’m not asian, but my bf is Chinese. Sorry if the name led you to false pretenses.
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@ Mei Ly
I would say that the majority of people (of every background) are racist. I believe Abagond implied something similar in some of his other posts.
Therefore, I wouldn’t argue that Asians are not racist, I just don’t think they’re any more (or less) racist than most other people.
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“You ask of proof of Asian racism against Blacks? How ridiculous your demand.”
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills…
For the last time, what I asked was for proof that Asian racism is representative of an OVERWHELMING animosity toward Blacks among most Asians.
Can you now tell the difference between my actual question and your misrepresentation of what you thought I was asking?
Do you have an answer to the question, or are you just too “outraged” to provide evidence for your assertions?
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Asian of Reason and Frank Kim are the same person. He is hereby banned for using a sock puppet.
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@ fancyface
“Whitout further extension, am I to believe that you have difficulty comprehending the first hand accounts and statements acknowledging the existence of Asian racism towards blacks by your fellow Asians on this thread or should I not weiver from that old age believe that racists prefer to remain perpetually ignorant of the truth?”
You’re right… if four Asians agree about something on a blog, it must be a representative truth of the way ALL Asians are, the world over!
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I do agree that everyone has some racism in them or prejudice but I think Asians are (as a society) more racist than others. At least East Asia. But this is my opinion. I mean, what am I supposed to think when Asians themselves say it so frequently. In Korea they do not want to hire blacks for teaching jobs in certain schools. And at times put them in crappy locations compared to their white counterpart.
Leigh, what do you think? Perhaps you have a better insight than me.
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How do you find out if someone is using a sock puppet?
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@ fancyface
Asian of Reason and Frank Kim are the same person. He is hereby banned.”
Hmmm… I wonder why Abagond didn’t say that King, Asian of Reason, and Frank Kim, are they same person?
Think about it, and get back to me.
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I wouldn’t think King is same as Frank Kim and AOR…don’t you guys have different ideologies? I don’t really know King well or anything, just a few posts I have read.
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@Mei Ly:
My ex-boyfriend (Korean-American) dated women of different Asian ethnicities and races (black & white) prior to dating me. His mother was livid when she found out about these women including me. Only a Korean woman was suitable for her son. He did stick up for me, but in the end, we found our differences were too great and we broke up. I can imagine his mother clapping her hands and dancing for joy. We were together for over 3 years.
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@fancyface
King should get some credit by asking questions and really trying to find the truth. Even with everything I have said it is good to do background research. I’m no expert and have only my opinions and those of others. I could be wrong on something and misinterpret things. Especially since I am not Asian I can not speak for them.
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@Leigh
You should dance for joy you don’t have to be around the wench!
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@Mei Ly:
From my personal experience, the Koreans, make that Korean-Americans, I have come across, have been more open and accepting for the most part. However, I have heard from their own mouths time and again prefer their own people. If you’re not Korean, then forget it.
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@ King:
insinuated the doubt you presented in comprehension. Do not use my language, or risk becoming redundant. Truth is, you’re a blatant racist, and your opinions are severly insignificant, and therefore not worth an iota of my time. I have wasted enough with your minute reasonings. The game is over, and I’m moving on to more worthy courses. I shan’t be reading nor responding to your insignificat postings. You will find that addressing to me will yield you no value. You’re dismissed!
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I’m a blatant racist Fancyface? What did I say?
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oh..nvm…I just saw you addressed it to King. my apologies.
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Mei Ly said:
‘How do you find out if someone is using a sock puppet?”
I can see everyone’s IP address so I can tell which comments are coming from the same computer.
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@Leigh
I’ve had better experiences with Koreans from Korea. The American Koreans come off rude and snobby. And they vandalized my locker in high school!! My Korean Korean friend was worried for me. He was really nice.
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Thanks abagond. 🙂
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@Mei Ly:
You’re right in that regard. I have known some KAs and they were mighty snooty when I first met them.
I’m glad he was there for you. We need people like that no matter what the ethic background.
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To be honest, I never and WILL NEVER understand what makes a human being “hate” another human being based just on his/her race. It’s the same with Jewish people I never understood why they are hated so much, I can assume they are the most hated people after blacks.
About Asians racism, one day I watched on TV a group of Japanese conservatives talking about eradicating all Jewish people because they were as they said “a threat to the world” whatever they mean by that. And, I do understand that Japanese helped Hitler financially during WW2.
So, here is my questions” Is there any reasons for Asians hating on blacks? or are they just racist to blacks because whites are racist to blacks?”
Another thing is that Asians(E & SE) people travel mainly to Europe and America (whites countries/continents), so I think that’s why they easily pick their racist attitudes and especially because their media is widely base on western lifestyle.
PS: just to make clear, I’m not generalising all whites and Asians but talking about the racist ones.
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However, I have heard from their own mouths time and again prefer their own people. If you’re not Korean, then forget it.
What ever happened to the American melting pot?!!
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@Malaika
I think it could come from their cultural background. “Whiteness” or lighter skin was already prized in those countries, at least for the women. And because in the countries they go to as you mentioned the whites have the power and the money. No judgement, but people will probably go and “side” where the money is at. I mean, who cares if blacks accept us or not, they have no power. I think this could be the mindset. Not sure. Just thinking up some theories.
Also, if you look at Japanese history they believe they descended from gods (or at least the emperor did). So you are already brought up with a big ego, lol. I know in China they have this group that side with the Nazi’s and women they catch with Chinese men they will shave her head and humiliate her. Not sure if they have killed anyone. It’s beside me why they would side with Hitler when they were on the chopping block during the holocaust, or would have been.
But I think this goes to show that in this world it isn’t about being a good person. It’s about power and money. I really have no hope for mankind, sad to say. I see how evil we are on a small scale and a large scale.
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fancyface
@ Asian of Reason:
Which of your Alias would you rather be addressed as:
Asian of Reason, or King?….Please be consistent.
*chic noir high fives fancy face*
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Mei Ly, you said you grew up Asia, do you mind telling us a bit more. What Asian country and for how nany years did you live there.
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oh, no I didn’t grow up in Asia. I only lived there a short short time teaching english. But I have been around many Asians. And other cultures. It’s the area I live in. And I was in China. 🙂
Can’t wait to go back!!!
Also, to all the Asian posters who read what I write I hope I don’t come off as some Asian expert or something. I really consider most of what I say only an opinion and thoughts I have and possible theories. I am very open to correction. 🙂
And I must add, I have 2 friends who are black living in Korea and LOVE IT! I don’t think they wanna come home! I just want to put that out there because I don’t want to sound like an Asian basher. There is good and bad in every culture.
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Did you teach English in China as well? I’m very curious about China, I’m going to Tokyo but I’m very interested in Beijing as well. I’m kinda like you, I got a thing for Asian men.
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All you guy should check out ” A class divided” video. I have it.
It will open up your eyes to the races game and who is playing it. Also check out ” Stress” National Geographic put in out. Check It out and you will see how people can be effected by
Stress, not just everyday stress but the stress of wars, slavery,
and just plain domination by an other group/savages.
South East Asians, Africa as a whole, African-Americans and
South America have all been under similar type condition in history. The French,British,Russian and then the United States, went into South East Asian, and divided you ideologically(capitalistic or communist). Then you divided yourself’s (north, South) and they gave you arms to kill each other, then they divided up your country among themselves and took your resources and shipped it back to their country. Then they said ” we are going to help you rebuild, meaning we are going to devalue your culture and make European the standard in your own country. So when
your men see European men they bow and when the women of Asia see European/American the think, money,better change,right.
check out “History of the United States by Howard Zinn”
the chapter on the Vietnam war explain this very well.
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I taught english in china. I was at a cell school with Peking University.
I personally had a great time. I felt somewhat at home but very homesick.
I didn’t spend too much time to get the best assessment of the country. Except, those stereotypes about Asian kids being so wonderful and well behaved…HA! LOL. But I taught adults. They are pretty much like anyone else in the world.
I want to go to Japan too. I really like the hime gyaru culture. XD
Do you hang out with many Asians or “Asian” areas?
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Thank you wwracer!
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@Malaika
It’s either hate or cultural misappropriation using obnoxious stereotypes. You have no idea how many Asians I’ve met who think they’re “more black than me” because they listen to hip hop, wear certain clothes, and drop the n-bomb all over the place.
I almost tore this one bloke a new bumhole behind it. His friend asked me “Why do you think some Asian people say “niggah” so much?” To which I replied, “Because they’re idiots.” His friend made sure to never come around me again. That said, I have encountered racism from Asians, dated one for 4 years and had to deal with all kinds of “assumptions” about me, including me desiring to be pregnant by him even though I’ve been staunchly and vocally anti-child for years. I’m honestly getting worked up just thinking about it and am glad I left that relationship behind; no matter what his feelings towards me were. (Good riddance to rubbish)
That said, I will not abandon those who face social injustice and stereotyping against them. I’ve stood side by side when it came to various issues with people who wouldn’t piss on me to put a fire out. This writer and those who agree with him are morons, plain and simple.
As to your question? Who knows? And really, is it worth analyzing? If we shouldn’t care what racist whites think, why concern ourselves with their more than willing impersonators?
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@ Mei Ly
I love to hear about Blacks living in and traveling to other countries. I’ve always wanted to live abroad, but I’ve been afraid to do it. I’d probably go to a Spanish speaking country because Spanish is the language I’ve studied.
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Sometimes i’m around China town (Canal st area) and I like soho too but soho has become too much of an tourist area when you go to far North.
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did the men folk flirt with you?
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@Malaika
You are so right. Why waste your time hating someone for something that they have absolutely no control over?! You want to hate someone for the shape of their eyes, their nose or their skin tone? If you want to hate someone, at least hate because of something that was done to you or your family.
@ Herneith
American melting pot, my ***! I, like a lot of
Americans, have heard that crap from the time I was a child. It is so not true.
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@mochasister…ROFL! I was going to write that about the melting pot too!!
@Chic…in the short time I was there I did get hit on once and he creeped me the heck out! I met him in church. I do get hit on by Asian guys but ususally not the hot ones, boo. Well, my bf now to me is handsome. 🙂
But sometimes Asians do not know I’m black *not sure if this has anything to do with it*. But while in China I wasn’t allowed to date anyone for a year anyway so I never went out seeking. Plus, I kind of wanted an American. I wanted someone who may be able to understand my culture a little more. I mean, I already have to explain black culture to my boyfriend. hehehe.
So, you are in NY. NY is interesting because although diverse seems very split. Where I am I think we are a bit more meshed together. BTW…interesting feet. LOL! 😀
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Oh..word of advice. If you go to China, BEWARE of the sales people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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But while in China I wasn’t allowed to date anyone for a year anyway so I never went out seeking.
really, why were you not allowed to date anyone for a year?
BTW…interesting feet. LOL!
that’s what my manicurist says 😆
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gimmie some dirt on the sales people.
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“Asian of Reason and Frank Kim are the same person. He is hereby banned for using a sock puppet.”
I guess he is taking Half Sigma’s advice. LMAO.
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When you go to the markets, LOOKING means you bought. I didn’t want a pair of jeans I had eyed and the girl screamed at me even as I walked away. Like at the top of her lungs saying I was a bad person. Sheesh, the jeans were nice but I didn’t want them. And this other lady grabbed my wrist and wouldn’t let go. My friend had to pry her off of me. And the lady got so up she took two of the shirts I was looking at and stuffed them in my bag and snatched my money out of my hand. I was going to pay 10 less yuan, about 90, but she took all 100. She was so angry with me. *sigh* So, yea, they really displayed the sweet, docile, and feminine Asian stereotype.
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I was never told, but I think because it probably keeps people away who just want to date. Also, a local Chinese might just want to date you just to “try out” a foreigner. Also, it was a Christian ministry and that was not the purpose. But I did know of one girl who was engaged to a Chinese singer there, but she had been in China for about 4 years.
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@ Mei LY- wow some of the sellers on canal street can be aggresive but these ladies sound like some tough cookies.
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mei ly Also, a local Chinese might just want to date you just to “try out” a foreigner.
haha ya know thats men. they always want to try out the other.
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Just remember, you LOOK you BUY! lol.
But I think I have a somewhat timid look so I probably seem like a pushover. Maybe? Just thinking.
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yea having a timid face is like a greenlight to those who want to bring you drama.
I’m tall for a woman 5’9.5, people respect height. and I gotta a mean “don’t mess with me face” when I need to flex it so I don’t get to much drama from random people.
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I’m only 5’3 and small framed. And I can pass ages 18-24. But I’m older. Well, I was 25 at the time in China. And, you know when you are in another country you want to be nice and show more respect *at least i try to* so yea…i have TIMID written all over me.
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Where is the suggestion blog? I think abagond should do a blog on positive Asian contributions to the world and US. That would be cool. From the past two blogs there seems to be a more negative angle on our Asian family.
Does anyone know about the Chinese men who married Black women during the times Chinese women were forbidden to come to the United States? Or how about the Asians who live in Africa. That would be interesting.
@Abagond, you can repost this to the suggestion box if you like. I just couldn’t find it anymore for some reason. Thanks!
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How did this thread become the “Asians are racist bastards” thread?
A few important points, particularly for fancyface and Oyan:
Questions like…
“why is it then that with the overwhelming animosity that Asians harbor against Blacks, yet they seek to to ally with Blacks, when faced with the merest friction with whites?”
… can be answered quite easily:
ASIANS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME PERSON.
Revolutionary concept, I know.
“Asians” as a group comprise a diverse group of ethnicities.
Some harbour animosity towards blacks.
Some do not, which is why they see no problem in allying with blacks.
An example from the blogosphere:
Some, such as HBD bloggers like Asian of Reason and Sagat, ally themselves with whites against black and brown people, who they think are dumber and less civilised.
Some, such as the many anti-racist Asian bloggers out there (Angry Asian Man, Big Wowo, myself, the Asians at Racialicious) clearly identify that non-white minorities have important commonalities of experience and should be allies rather than enemies.
Hope that clears up some of the ridiculousness.
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“ASIANS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME PERSON.”
I tried, ES, I tried… (sigh)
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Haven’t you heard, everyone who isn’t a victim is a victimizer.
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I love the Angry Asian Man!
I don’t think all Asians are the same, and I don’t think the other posters think so either. But I did say earlier I was more focused on Koreans and East Asian countries.
Actually, some of my info I got was from AAM about the Nazi supporting Asians. I really want to know why they are this way.
And I think you missed some of the positive posts too.
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And, it is better to ask a question than assume. 😀
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I heard these stereotypes trying to portray Asians as “cutthroat” and “bloodthirsty” when it comes to grades and college admissions. Apparently white people are the innocent victims who aren’t trying to shove each other to get into a top college but simply want to have fun.
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@Eurasian Sensation
It’s unfortunate if my post came off as an ovegeneraliizing perception, but I very, very,very seldom encounter ‘racialicious’ Asians ‘, group B’, but always encounter ‘Group A’. I ‘meet ‘Group B’ online, only.
“ASIANS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME PERSON.
Revolutionary concept, I know.
“Asians” as a group comprise a diverse group of ethnicities.”
(Eurasian Sensation)
Of this I agree, but in my exposure/experience, these progressive thinking/socially aware Asians do not project these ‘open’ attitudes out in public, nor in daily social interactions. No problem, just that when ‘problems’ arise, suddenly many are blk people’s ‘bff’. lol!
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Thank you for the article, Abagond.
Wow, some inflammatory comments here.
Apparently, American universities already prevent ‘too many’ Asians from entering: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/02/08/do_colleges_redline_asian_americans/
They need about 140 points more than a White applicant to get in.
If you go to East Asia, generally the people are not familiar at all with Black people. This is one big reason why they are so racist: they are completely ignorant and have most likely never encountered a real Black person to refute the stereotypes they believe in. I remember reading about a Black man who went to teach English in Japan and the kids were always trying to grab his penis, wanting to know if it was as huge as stereotypes would have them believe.
I also know East Asian people prefer sons and daughters to stick to their own and not marry someone of another ethnicity. Then there is the idea of paler skin being the most beautiful, hence the condescending attitude many have towards South East Asians as well as Black people. Thankfully my grandparents were not so racist nor hell bent on having their children marry people of the same ethnicity, else I would not exist.
As for Asians in America, I wouldn’t really know. The closest I’ve come to living in the USA was living in Canada. I only know that those who were born in the west (especially after a few generations) were generally more open-minded.
Another thing that I feel is worth mentioning is that East Asians generally do not speak up when something racist is happening to them. They remain silent. It’s as if they think ignoring it will make it go away. I wonder if it has anything to do with saving face. Don’t let people see you have been victimised and go about your day as normal.
Is it okay for one to generalise a few experiences with Asian people to everyone of Asian descent and then to decide that they deserve no pity or help? It certainly wouldn’t be okay for one to generalise a few experiences one has had with Black people to everyone who is Black and decide they deserve no pity or help. I’ve seen people do the latter on previous posts and they were torn apart.
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That reminds me Ella…I have a black guy friend in korea now who speaks fluent korean. He told me that usually the shop keepers don’t want to deal with foreigners, not because they don’t like them but because of the language barrier. When he didn’t know Korean he was not allowed in places. When he went back to Korea knowing more Korean they were friendlier. And he used to work in a Korean grocery store and the Korean owner would teach him Korean.
Koreans and blacks should get along, we both have Han *sp?*. XD
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@ Oyan:
no sweat. And in fairness to you, re-reading the comments, my beef is more with “fancyface” than you.
I’m not saying that the Asian community doesn’t have a problem with racist attitudes, particularly towards dark-skinned people. I’m well aware of it, and I think it’s disgusting. Just thought it was interesting and ironic that a post about racist attitudes TOWARDS Asians immediately descended into a kind of Asian-bashing and stereotyping.
But while we are on the topic… my theory is that Asians, as relatively recent immigrants, have often not absorbed the guilty conscience (about historical treatment of blacks) that many whites have to some extent absorbed. I can say this about where I live (Australia) as well; a lot of Asians are strangely oblivious to the context of why some people are disadvantaged.
Regarding your comment:
in my exposure/experience, these progressive thinking/socially aware Asians do not project these ‘open’ attitudes out in public, nor in daily social interactions. No problem, just that when ‘problems’ arise, suddenly many are blk people’s ‘bff’. lol!
I won’t argue with what you’ve personally witnessed. I will say that I think this is pretty true of ethnic minorities in general and not necessarily an Asian thing. The anti-racist sphere might talk of the common experiences of “POC”, but I get the strong impression that the average Hispanic/Black/Asian/Native person doesn’t seem to feel all that much solidarity with the other types of POC except when it suits them.
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Eurasian said:
“How did this thread become the “Asians are racist bastards” thread?”
I write a post about white racism against Asians, but the thread, from the very first comment, is about Asian racism against blacks! Well, I have seen worse.
My view is that nearly everyone in America is racist. Asians are racist against blacks and blacks are racist against Asians, sad to say. But both have more to fear from the white racism directed against both of them. I think Carmen of Racialicious has it right.
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Now onto the main topic of the post…
there is a real “damned if you do, damned if you don’t mentality” regarding ethnic minorities.
If a group is seen to be underachieving in terms of wealth, education or other social indicators – they are called lazy, a drain on society. “Why can’t they just work hard and succeed like WE do?”
If a group does exactly that – work hard and succeed – they are unfairly taking places from US, by such sneaky underhanded methods as studying really hard.
I don’t think Asians are biologically smarter than any other race. Rather, it is the obsession in most Asian cultures with education as a path to success. Chinese/Indian/Korean/etc kids work damn hard because their parents and community expect them to go to college and become doctors and dentists and so forth. I’m not saying this is necessarily all positive, as I think a lot of Asian kids have their individuality stifled by the weight of these expectations. But in terms of wealth and advancement, it gets results.
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@Eurasian Sensation…”If a group does exactly that – work hard and succeed – they are unfairly taking places from US, by such sneaky underhanded methods as studying really hard.
I don’t think Asians are biologically smarter than any other race. Rather, it is the obsession in most Asian cultures with education as a path to success…”
That is an interesting and more than likely, accurate perception; the cultural focus or emphasis on academic excellence as a path to success.
With regards to this thread ‘turning into an Asian bash’, my comments were not meant to assert this, but, whenever ‘other’ groups, nonblack American express racist experiences with the ‘dominant’ class/group, they will get a ‘side eye’, because most of their day-to-day interactions has the ‘appearance’ of auditions for ‘model minority’ status. As for various/differing ethnic groups expressing or demanding within group preference, I have no problem with that, well not to much. But I understand that.
It has been documented that most all non-dominant groups have had more success at assimilating into mainstream culture, than generational Black Americans; studies coming out how this group has better high school graduation rates, this group getting admitted into college more so that native Black Americans and so on, people not concerned with this group moving into ‘their’ neighborhoods, communities, schools, jobs, but when it’s Black Americans everybody gets out of the pool so to speak. So, when I hear of ‘othered’ ethnicities facing racial/ist experiences, I am taken aback, just a bit. And, no, it is never a good thing that anyone or group experience discrimination at the hands of another.
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This comments thread made me want to end my life. Is there something in the water?
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All these anti-Asian comments are disgusting. I’m black and I grew up in a large White and Asian setting. I befriended mostly Asians (Vietnamese and Filipino) and their families welcomed me to their homes. My boyfriends of three years happens to be half white/half Asian. Please don’t clump all Asians into one group. There are prejudice people in all races.
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So basically white folks will hold Asians up as a model minority for the rest of us to follow until the model minority starts to surpass white folk? Then those qualites such as working hard, and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps become abberations? Love the goal post shifting there.
It kind of goes back to what I was saying in the thread about black stereotypes which is that they are not so much based in truth, but ultimately self serving for the person/people who hold the stereotypes. Even when they do as they are told AND SUCCEED then they are still seen as abnormal in some way.
This is why I don’t buy the argument that “bad” minorities can change stereotypes if they’d just stop being so…bad because this shows that even when a minority does something right it’s still wrong somehow. Stereotypes are all about protecting the ego, in this case, preserving the Wall of White Self. It couldn’t be the white kids are less driven, no, Asians work and study too hard.
Some of the anti-Asian comments are distressing. I went to a predominately Asian school where whites were in the minority and blacks were the third largest group after Chinese and South Asians. I don’t remember any arrogance or disrespect and I’m still friends with my Chinese-Canadian friend from high school. I’m not saying there aren’t any anti-black Asians. I’m sure there are many of them, but they are not all like this. Please understand that I am not trying to deny the experience of anyone else.
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@ Mei Ly
So does discrimination in Korea rely more on whether someone speaks the language or not as opposed to what race they are?
@ Eurasian Sensation
I agree with this. With many Asian kids and teenagers there is this enormous pressure to succeed and be the best when it comes to education. Only straight A’s are good enough. Only the top universities in the country are good enough. Anything less and you bring shame to the family. Sometimes they are pushed so much that they commit suicide. I am quite sure that this person’s experience is not unique, though unfortunately not everyone stops themselves from stepping off the edge:
http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/blog/archive/2010/11/ask-model-minority-suicide-hello
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@Ella:
@ Mei Ly
“So does discrimination in Korea rely more on whether someone speaks the language or not as opposed to what race they are?”
I think more on race, second on language. But please do not take my word for it. I have never been to Korea. I just have a strong interest in the culture and language and entertainment. I am making assumptions from what I have heard from others.
And it is not just blacks koreans have issue with. It’s anyone not korean. LOL. They talk smack about SE Asians, Chinese, and of course the Japanese. One of my Korean friends says his parents *who are in Korea* don’t like hispanics and think they are lazy. I think it is a country run on stereotypes. But what country isn’t? It’s just a bit easier to debunk stereotypes when your country is more diverse like the US.
Also, some Koreans have issue with US military on their land. It feels like another “invasion” if you will. Remember, Korea has been the subjugates of China for centuries, then Japan, and now US. *Look up the concept of Han *sp?* So, if you know the language and try to show humbleness I think that goes a long way and probably a lot of their guard goes down. You know you can communicate and more understanding is had.
You know, they actually had a show talking about how a Korean guy married a black lady *maybe African*. Same thing happened in China. Who makes a show about race mixing marriages and it gets in the news?! LOL!
But for a real, more solid truth answer I think it is best to ask a Korean.
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@Ann
“All these anti-Asian comments are disgusting. I’m black and I grew up in a large White and Asian setting. I befriended mostly Asians (Vietnamese and Filipino) and their families welcomed me to their homes. My boyfriends of three years happens to be half white/half Asian. Please don’t clump all Asians into one group. There are prejudice people in all races.”
I don’t think anyone clumped all Asians into one group.
It’s impossible to do so when each of the cultures are so different from each other.
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I haven’t had time to read any of the previous comments, but I did resonate with this line from the post: “Yet if whites are unwilling to work hard and do not value education, then they do not really belong at the nation’s best universities.”
Absolutely true. I can confirm that very large numbers of whites are failing to teach their children the value of hard work and diligence. This is going to be much harder on the children than the parents can possibly imagine. The easy path to the upper middle class that was available to whites of my generation will very quickly be foreclosed to their children.
It is well worth seeing the film “Two Million Minutes.” The title refers to the approximate duration of a high school education. The film explores about how many of those two million minutes are spent “studying” — either being in classe, doing homework, studying for a test, or otherwise doing something academic. It compares a cross section of average high schoolers from China, India, and the US.
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@ Medusa
This comments thread made me want to end my life. Is there something in the water?
——————————————————-
No! I re-read my comments and I think what is happening, perhaps with my comments is that there is a confusion with racist attributes vs. cultural difference, ie. high context vs low context. One of my associates commented that she thought Asians of various ethnicities were racist, but, I remember thinking that some are, but most are actually ‘high context’ communicators, which may be confused for something negative, although I have had some rather blatant experiences:
High context culture and the contrasting low context culture are terms presented by the anthropologist Hall (1976 ) asserts that it refers to a culture’s tendency to use high context messages over low context messages in routine communication. This choice of communication styles translates into a culture that will cater to in-groups, an in-group being a group that has similar experiences and expectations, from which inferences are drawn. In a high context culture, many things are left unsaid, letting the culture explain. Words and word choice become very important in higher context communication, since a few words can communicate a complex message very effectively to an in-group (but less effectively outside that group), while in a lower context culture, the communicator needs to be much more explicit and the value of a single word is less important.
Higher context Culture
French Canadian
French
Finnish
Russian
Italian
Spanish
Latin Americans
Greek
Arab
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Indian
Brazilian
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@ Mei Ly:
I don’t think anyone clumped all Asians into one group.
Perhaps you need to read fancyface’s comments again then to understand why some people are pissed.
And it is not just blacks koreans have issue with. It’s anyone not korean. LOL. They talk smack about SE Asians, Chinese, and of course the Japanese.
While I haven’t witnessed this personally with Koreans, it’s quite a common thing with European migrants as well, since they have animosities based on historical conflicts. Some Europeans may be a bit racist towards blacks or other races, but talk to a few Greek Cypriots about Turks, or Croatians about Serbs, and you’ll likely come across a much deeper negativity.
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@Oyan:
It is definitely culture.
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@ Oyan:
It has been documented that most all non-dominant groups have had more success at assimilating into mainstream culture, than generational Black Americans
A lot of migrants begin at the bottom rung of society when they arrive in their new country, but back in their old countries they may have been middle-class and have an aspirational mentality. By contrast, I would guess that poor blacks (and poor whites, for that matter) have fewer role models of success to inspire them.
I would also guess it has to do with the demographics and mentalities of those who migrate to the USA. Those who consciously choose to migrate to another country usually have means and middle class values, or the burning desire to better themselves. Much has been made of the success of African immigrants in education and so on, but I’m guessing that the Somalis and Sudanese, who arrived primarily as refugees, are not performing as well as say, Ghanaians or Kenyans. Likewise for Koreans and Japanese (economic migrants) compared to Cambodians and Hmong (refugees).
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I read this article , and strangely enough, I was just reading a poll in the same magazine (not the same issue) that suggests most Canadians want Canada to restrict immigration from countries with the top immigrants in Canada.
According to ‘The Changing Faces of Canada’ book, the top immigrants are coming from India, The Phillipines and China.
I know if the majority of immigrants were still coming from England, the opinions would not be against restricting immigration.
I said it before, and now once again. For whites in new world countries, equality means whites must still be able to maintain their dominance. If whites are no longer on top, then equality makes no sense to whites.
They’re fine with Asians as long they remain a ‘minority’ and don’t displace or replace whites on top of the social hierarcy.
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Eurasian Sensation
“Perhaps you need to read fancyface’s comments again then to understand why some people are pissed.”
@Eurasion: I will reread but I took what the commenter wrote to mean me. That is why I responded.
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Mel wrote:
They’re fine with Asians as long they remain a ‘minority’ and don’t displace or replace whites on top of the social hierarcy.
Why would anyone want to be displaced economically, politically or demographically? How would that serve their own personal interests? Can you imagine an Asian country where the native born look forward to the day that outsiders outnumber them and fundamentally alter their culture and country?
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@ Sagat:
“Why would anyone want to be displaced economically, politically or demographically? How would that serve their own personal interests? Can you imagine an Asian country where the native born look forward to the day that outsiders outnumber them and fundamentally alter their culture and country?”
See Sagat, again I’m kinda fascinated by how you position yourself in all this.
By your logic – what the hell are you, a person of Thai origin, doing in the USA? You seem like a smart person – so aren’t you damaging to the interests of “real Americans” by possibly outcompeting them for jobs and college places. Or alternatively, since Thais on average have 10 points lower IQ than Americans, aren’t you and your people, by your logic, an unwanted burden on American society?
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@Mel:
Correct. Where I’m from, the Philippine immigrants have surpassed the European immigrants (Ukrainian, German, Polish, etc.) who used to come by the droves. No longer.
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@Mel…..”I said it before, and now once again. For whites in new world countries, equality means whites must still be able to maintain their dominance. If whites are no longer on top, then equality makes no sense to whites.
They’re fine with Asians as long they remain a ‘minority’ and don’t displace or replace whites on top of the social hierarcy.”
——————————————————————-
I agree with this, but what are the immigration policies of Japan, China, North Korea, South Korea, Thailand etc.?
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Eurasian Sensation said:
By your logic – what the hell are you, a person of Thai origin, doing in the USA? You seem like a smart person – so aren’t you damaging to the interests of “real Americans” by possibly outcompeting them for jobs and college places.
I came here as a kid, but you’re right that I’m taking the job of a native born American. I’m cognizant of that fact and the tension from Whites can be palpable sometimes, especially considering that I live in the South and the current state of the economy. Now, what position should I take? Should I be spiteful towards Whites who feel resentful about their own displacement or should I try to recognize that Whites have a vested interest maintaining their culture and work to fit in the best possible way that I can? I think the latter approach benefits me the most. I don’t buy into this idea of minorities forming a united front against the majority.
When I visit Thailand, I’m often disgusted at the behavior of Westerners, who often have no respect for Thai culture or the sensibilities of Thai people. I think that we should try to be good guests. My position is that of many Asian immigrants. I’ve noticed that the divide with regards to which side Asians take often has to do with whether they are native born or not. Most Asians born in the States are annoyed with being seen as foreigners, since they aren’t.
Or alternatively, since Thais on average have 10 points lower IQ than Americans, aren’t you and your people, by your logic, an unwanted burden on American society?
There’s not many Thais in America, but I’d wager that if there were more, then Thais probably would be seen in a negative light here. I’m personally not a burden since I don’t live off government services nor do I commit crime or try to undermine American values. I understand why Americans would be aggravated at immigrant groups that disproportionately use government services and try to change American culture. Why wouldn’t they be? What kind of person would want foreign groups that were disrespectful towards their host nation and didn’t make an effort to fit in? I wouldn’t want to see this happen in Thailand, so I sympathize with the feelings of many Whites that feel this way. After all, I wouldn’t move to Ghana and and be anti-Ghanaian, so why would I move to a Western nation and be anti-Western?
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The anti-racist sphere might talk of the common experiences of “POC”, but I get the strong impression that the average Hispanic/Black/Asian/Native person doesn’t seem to feel all that much solidarity with the other types of POC except when it suits them.
I agree with this. I sometimes think of it as sibling rivalry for the affections of daddy (whites). Non-whites sometimes see each other as competition for the respect, acknowledgement and affection of whites. They often think putting down other non-whites will make whites ‘like them more” or serve as evidence to whites that they are just like them. It’s the Michelle Malkin syndrome.
Furthermore, people are more inclined to care about themselves and what’s in it for them than anything else.
PS. I am not surprised by the Japanese supporting Hitler, though I am disgusted. The Japanese were also granted honorary white status in South Africa, despite the fact that the Chinese living in SA were still viewed as second class citizens.
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@OyanI agree with this, but what are the immigration policies of Japan, China, North Korea, South Korea, Thailand etc.?
@SagatWhy would anyone want to be displaced economically, politically or demographically? How would that serve their own personal interests? Can you imagine an Asian country where the native born look forward to the day that outsiders outnumber them and fundamentally alter their culture and country?
I think that both of guys believe that America or Canada is the same as China, etc. These new world countries have never been “white” countries; not in the same way England or Sweden are white countries. They’ve never been homogenously one ethno-racial group. The countries of the Americas were founded by immigrants, and reluctantly or not, they’ve always had none white people.
No one is replacing the “values” of these countries (although I fail to see how Asians working hard in school is a bad thing). I said social hierarchy, as in the “whites on top of the socio-economic’ hierarchy a.k.a the racial dominance of whites in the country.
Furthermore, you’re assuming that all these Asians are “outsiders.” They’re not. Many of them are born/bred in the country and many more have actually assimilated in the larger Anglo-North American culture. But, of course, it makes no difference, as long as they’re racially not white.
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Mei ly Does anyone know about the Chinese men who married Black women during the times Chinese women were forbidden to come to the United States?
I once had a link for that but I lost it. It was posted by a commter named Sara over on Rose’s blog.
Mei lyOr how about the Asians who live in Africa. That would be interesting.
I have a few videos. in one video the husband is Korean and in anther the husband is Chinese
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Mel but I get the strong impression that the average Hispanic/Black/Asian/Native person doesn’t seem to feel all that much solidarity with the other types of POC except when it suits them.
that’s just human nature. Family can be the same way.
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It will certainly be far more appealing and not offend anyone if one were to deny reality, sort of like applying a tiny bandaid to a profusely bleeding wound to pretend we treated the wound, or to feign deplomacy while hiding the truth. Blacks have done these through the years, and nothing positive have come to it.
Several years back, a Japanes president stated on their country’s television, “that the downfall of America, is its Black people” . He went on to say that Blacks were unruly and savages. I was only a child at the time, and will never forget that statement.
My personal experience with Asians of any group has been horrid. In my experience, I see them as racists, cold as stones, inconsiderate, grandiously condescending, double faced and so on. These aberrent behaviors are exclusively towards Blacks even the most well intended Blacks. I have experienced that Asians act far differently(much more agreeable(suck up) and accepting) towards whites or people of other races.
My intention isnt to offend anyone, but merely to speak the truth. In my honest opinion, one cannot stop an injustice done to them, just by pretending that it does not exist. While some may find the truth quite difficult to bear, it still is what it is.
If there are truely well intended Asians, rather than just sweet talking, wanna be politically correct internet posters, perhaps they can model more humane habits towards Blacks for their bretherns to follow.
Yes, I’m well aware that Asia is a continent and equally aware of the divers groups. Their behaviours towards blacks are not diverse however.
The truth is the truth regardless of which side of the coin falls.
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@ Sagat:
credit to you, that was a pretty good answer.
There’s not many Thais in America, but I’d wager that if there were more, then Thais probably would be seen in a negative light here.
Really? Personally I’ve never met a Thai that I didn’t like. Y’all strike me as pretty easy people to get along with, polite and laid-back.
Anyway, I guess what interests me is the connection between the individual (you) and the group (Thais).
Since you have made a successful life in the USA, should then other Thais have the opportunity to do so? Or are you “different” somehow?
I’m sure we both know that when most HBDers talk positively about Asians and their IQ, they’re not really talking about Thais. Like me (half-white, half-Indonesian), you are one of those brown SE Asians, who your crowd doesn’t seem rate all that highly. (For the record, my mother’s people apparently have an average IQ of 89.) So if your HBD homies were determining public policy, do you think they would give someone like you a chance?
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Oyan,
I guess you can’t believe that Black folk had that same ethic and got nothing for it. There are many blacks like me, that have four generations of college graduates in their family (extended included)and three of those generations were underpaid, restricted from certain jobs and refused bank loans. This was even outside of the Jim Crow South. Did you even know or wonder about why the intellectual class of Black people became expatriates in the 20th century? They were more than celebrities like Paul Robeson, they were unknown and in a way reveled in their anonymity to have more freedom.
Now you feel you can explain things by talking about Blacks graduation rates to explain our non-assimilation and acceptance in this society.
Give me a break!
Abagond, I know this is off topic, but I get so tired of this crap, I couldn’t let this slide.
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@ fancyface:
it’s a shame that you have had such experiences. Those things you mention are very real and there are plenty of people who are like that.
That said, there are plenty of white people whose only experiences with black people have been negative (getting bullied at school by them, for example), and therefore they think all black people are like that. Would you believe their experience is representative of all blacks? No, and I wouldn’t either. Which is why you need to understand that what some Asians do is not what all Asians do. It will vary immensely according to individual circumstances.
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“My personal experience with Asians of any group has been horrid. In my experience, I see them as racists, cold as stones, inconsiderate, grandiously condescending, double faced and so on. These aberrent behaviors are exclusively towards Blacks even the most well intended Blacks. I have experienced that Asians act far differently(much more agreeable(suck up) and accepting) towards whites or people of other races.”
But that, of course, is the very face of racism — to take your own personal experiences with a comparative few, and extrapolate those into a profile to categorize and condemn billions of people.
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Sagat,
Whites usually exaggerate the amount of social services immigrants get. They older ones forget that many Southeastern Asian immigrants, Cambodians, Vietnamese and Laotians are here because of the Vietnam War and the Feds did a lot to support them when they first arrived. Many of these people fought with the US or were casualties of the war and I think it was the least we could do. They were also taken advantage of, in the workplace, housing and wages. Exploitation was rampant. Many of these communities are still poor 40 some years later.
Quite a few of the Asian immigrants are here, because of the dirty work that needed to be done, now that their children and grandchildren are doing well, there is a backlash. Whites could have given a crap about assimilation as long as Asians were in the mines, building the railroads or doing work that whites thought were their place.
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@ Eurasian Sensation,
Really? Personally I’ve never met a Thai that I didn’t like. Y’all strike me as pretty easy people to get along with, polite and laid-back.
I appreciate your sentiments towards Thais. My point about negativity towards Thais wasn’t really an issue about whether Thais are amicable or not. It’s just that Thais have a fundamentally different culture than mainstream America and when an immigrant group comes in large numbers, this only amplifies the group’s “otherness” which inevitably leads to friction and bitterness from those that feel they are having a foreign culture imposed on them.
Since you have made a successful life in the USA, should then other Thais have the opportunity to do so? Or are you “different” somehow?
You seem to think that me being of Thai descent presents a conflict of interests. While I have a great deal of affection for my Thai roots, I’m an American now. I’ve pledged loyalty to this country and when I think about immigration issues, I don’t ask myself what’s best for Thais, I ask myself what’s best for America.
Like me (half-white, half-Indonesian), you are one of those brown SE Asians, who your crowd doesn’t seem rate all that highly… So if your HBD homies were determining public policy, do you think they would give someone like you a chance?
When I write about group differences, I never suppose that these apply to individuals. If some were to look down on me because of my background, then I can’t help them. In a perfect society(in my view, at least) we’d all be judged on our individual merits.
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Mel wrote: “Non-whites sometimes see each other as competition for the respect, acknowledgement and affection of whites. They often think putting down other non-whites will make whites ‘like them more” or serve as evidence to whites that they are just like them.”
—
I couldn’t have phrased it better myself.
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King
“My personal experience with Asians of any group has been horrid. In my experience, I see them as racists, cold as stones, inconsiderate, grandiously condescending, double faced and so on. These aberrent behaviors are exclusively towards Blacks even the most well intended Blacks. I have experienced that Asians act far differently(much more agreeable(suck up) and accepting) towards whites or people of other races.”
But that, of course, is the very face of racism — to take your own personal experiences with a comparative few, and extrapolate those into a profile to categorize and condemn billions of people.
@King: What if Asians themselves say that they are racist? So what if what is said is said by (in your words) the condemned group? Just curious, because from the first quote I hear that more often from other Asians. Of course not all Asians are racist, but like with anything you have to look at the culture and not the ethnicity of a person. Every country have a culture and a way of thinking.
@Fancyface: Sucks you had so many bad runins. So have I but I have had great run ins too! And people who treat you badly, forget them! Just focus on yourself and those who do like you. Don’t waste your energy on hating people who act like dung. :3 Besides, people who act nasty usually have their own issues. And some people are just ignorant and need better teachings. Pity the stupid and don’t become one of them. That’s for any kind of bad person out there!
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“What if Asians themselves say that they are racist?”
Simple…
1) Take the *honest* and actual number of Asians that you can personally remember having admitted this to you. (online does not count)
2) Go to Wikipedia and add up the population totals of every Asian nation in the world.
3) Determine what percentage your personal Asian sample is of the total Asian world population.
4) Ask yourself if that exact same percentage of the Back population should represent ALL black people.
That will give you your answer.
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@Hathor: …”Now you feel you can explain things by talking about Blacks graduation rates to explain our non-assimilation and acceptance in this society.
Give me a break!..”
Could you quote me on this, I do’nt feel that was my statement intent.
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Stereotyping Asians is utterly brainless.
It is a mistake made by Maclean’s, by most white North Americans, by the HBDers with their so-called “statistical observations” – and by too many on this thread.
MOST PEOPLE ARE ASIANS!!!!
Over 60% of mankind lives in Asia. Asia is HUGE.
If it is wrong to stereotype Black Americans then it is at least a 100 times more brainless to stereotype Asians. First because there are 100 times more of them and second, unlike Black Americans, most of them do not even share a common language, religion, history or identity.
And then on top of all that, for blacks in America to stereotype Asians is even worse. Because unlike whites they know full well what it is like to be stereotyped and how baseless it is.
As to Asian racism against blacks:
On this very thread you have both Sagat and Leigh. Both are Asian but while Leigh is way less racist than most white people (as far as I can tell), Sagat is way worse. And that is just two people on one thread on one blog in one corner of the blogosphere.
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@King
Thank you for answering. 🙂
I would also say, look at the laws of said country and how they also speak about other people and cultures.
But for the meantime, I’ll just go with what my friends and boyfriend says *not people from online* about how they see their own culture and the people within it.
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@Abagond
The 60% depends on who you ask. In some countries Middle Eastern is said to be Asian, as well as India. In other countries, only East Asian is Asian. Some Filipinos may even consider themselves Pacific Islanders.
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@ Mei Ly
Even if you only include China, that is the country with the highest population in the world. China alone contains about 20% of the world’s people.
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true ella…i’m not saying 60% isn’t true…but true to who?
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And India is almost as huge as China. But let’s not quibble over percentages because I think it misses the point. I’m sure we can agree that there are a helluva a lot of Asians in the world and they are pretty diverse.
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@Eurasion
Just putting out some notes to think about.
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@ Mei Ly
I was only trying to indicate that, even if one has a more restricted idea of what Asia is (e.g. only East Asia), with China there it is going to be difficult for anyone to say that Asians do not make up a large portion of the population (if not the largest). So yes, while the percentage Abagond gave can change depending on one’s definition (as you have pointed out), I don’t think it would change enough that someone can argue that Asians are a minority in the world population (and perhaps use that to justify stereotyping). This is only a point I am adding, it is not an attempt to refute or argue with anything.
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Oyan,
“It has been documented that most all non-dominant groups have had more success at assimilating into mainstream culture, than generational Black Americans; studies coming out how this group has better high school graduation rates, this group getting admitted into college more so that native Black Americans and so on…”
What I am saying is that those studies are not causal, there is no need to even bring them up. Studies like that are used as a Red Herring. Probably if you had began your statement with other than “It has been documented” your intent wouldn’t have been missed.
White immigrant groups have, no matter how much they struggled, managed to become mainstream, without the overwhelming need to become educated; that is graduate high school or go to college.
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@Ella
I agree. I wasn’t making any argument or trying to state any real important point to prove anything. It was just a statement/note to think about.
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“But for the meantime, I’ll just go with what my friends and boyfriend says *not people from online* about how they see their own culture and the people within it.”
That is fine, as long as you remember that this kind of “survey” is not scientific nor representative. If you ask Black people who you randomly know, you might get the impression that Blacks are chronically tardy (C.P. time). You might get a lot of Blacks who will admit to you that Black people are crazy! (including many Black comedians) You might get the impression that most Black people have an entertainment gene, and are genetically better singers and dancers than everybody else.
Also, remember that Asians really ARE prejudiced, but so are you, and so am I. The question is whether Asians are any more prejudiced than everybody else in the world. A lot of Black people are prejudiced too, but simply dismiss their own prejudice as an acceptable byproduct of other people’s prejudice toward them. Everybody is prejudiced, but some are more aware of it than others.
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@Hathor:…“It has been documented that most all non-dominant groups have had more success at assimilating into mainstream culture, than generational Black Americans; studies coming out how this group has better high school graduation rates, this group getting admitted into college more so that native Black Americans and so on…”(oyan)
What I am saying is that those studies are not causal, there is no need to even bring them up. Studies like that are used as a Red Herring. Probably if you had began your statement with other than “It has been documented” your intent wouldn’t have been missed.
White immigrant groups have, no matter how much they struggled, managed to become mainstream, without the overwhelming need to become educated; that is graduate high school or go to college.
—————————————————————-
OK good, got it you misunderstood; and I agree with your point 100%. I posted the ‘education’ point, to infer that such ‘studies’ and ‘surveys’ are constantly being mass mediated to demonstrate how lacking, black Americans are at assimilating into the mainstream culture,and, how such reports are used to highlight their ‘permanant outsider’ status, ie, low graduation rates from K-12, college, propensity towards illnesses and social dysfunctions (home ownership, blood pressure, HIV, diabetes, less marriage, obesity, crime, out of wedlock/single-motherhood). CNN’s ‘Black in America’ thrives on these economic, academic and medical misfortunes of Blacks in America.
Education rates was but one of the variables, mainstream uses to do this. You rarely see similar reports or studies on ‘other’ groups and their pathological ‘misfit’ status in American culture; mainly their successes, ie. immigrant blacks higher ivy league admissions, Mexicans hard working ethics, Asian business and academic success, and so on. At the same time I am aware of the ongoing ‘musical chair racism’ that the dominant group can use, so I am not entirely surprised; it’s just that most nonblack American groups ARE suprised, when they get these ‘wake-up’ calls.
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well, that is why in many of my posts i mention that i am not an expert and to do your own research. honestly, i don’t think asians as a race are racist or prejudice more than others but i would say in some asian countries the culture is more prejudice. another reason why i pointed out mainly korea as well and not all of asia. south korea that is. we all know how the dprk is, lol. south korea is very homogeneous and are very proud of this. it is part of the cultural thinking. they don’t say i, they say we. and i can understand why. i can even understand dprks juche idealism. now, i really can’t do a true study if all of the people in dprk really believe this way because the people are not allowed to speak against the government.
honestly i don’t blame those countries for how they may see blacks. they don’t have the exposure to others like we do being in the US. and as i said earlier it is against other asians as well.
the mindset i have heard is sort of like the 60’s or something. but, this is probably with an older generation maybe not the younger. time changes things. i mean, they are sending us their gorgeous men like SE7EN and Bi (rain). *drool* and they are paired up with black women. so i think more exposures of other cultures will def help.
as far as black stereotypes go i don’t hear this from blacks as i do from whites and asians. but this is just the circle of people i am around possibly.
anyway, i think it really just comes down to culture. and i’m def not going into all the stuff that could contribute to today.
on the cpt thing…in my chinese sorority they always joked and called it chinese people time. they were always late!LOL!
what i do find interesting is whenever i do tell an asian person how i have issues with my bf’s mom they automatically say because i’m black. not my words or even thinking, but theirs. i mean, maybe she has an issue, not sure. i just think she’s a brat. so if their thinking is off they should change this thinking i suppose?
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“what i do find interesting is whenever i do tell an asian person how i have issues with my bf’s mom they automatically say because i’m black.”
Yes, but if your BF had problems being accepted by your parents, the first question people would be asking him was whether it was because he was a non-Black.
It’s just the most obvious difference on the table.
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@ abagond:
I’m not African American, nor have I being to Asia. My statments about Asians in the USA, are not mere hearsay, or readings from articles in newspapers. My account are of personal experiences, and not mere stereotyping.
It is quite presumptuous to assume that because there are diversity in Asian groups and cultures, that these people do not share this superiority(the better minority)/Better than the Black person complex.
I once had an Indian professor here in the USA who analyzed the maltreatment and racizm he faced while growing up in England, yet, he, himself acknowleged however that there is a racizim of Brown over Black more so in the USA. He informed of how one of his nieces was ostracized by his entire family for marring a Black America, and many other similar accounts.
A professional collegue of mine, a young Phillippino, acknowledged that they were thought in their families not to associate with Blacks, that Blacks were unintelligent, lazy, and unrully. That whites were better, and the ones to associate with.
I helped coach a chinese medical student who was struggling with organic chemistry. During one of our sessions, she said to me, “this subject is so difficult, yet it comes so easy to you as a second nature. Yet we are told that Blacks are not intelligent people, I wonder why that is?”
You know, I can continue here, but what does that solve. There isn’t anything new here. There are many denials posted here, and many offended, put that does not mean that it isnt what it is. People may of course deny an aberrent behavior(because it isnt norm, and therefore something of shame), this does not however mean that the behavior isnt in existence. For example, a white person may tell you that whites are not racists, and or that there are diverse group of whites. But don’t we know that whites are racists, or don’t we know that Europe is a continent with diverse groups of whites with different cultures, but when they come to America, dont we know that even the ones from the most impoverised countries assume superiority over minorities who may even have originated from more affluent countries than theirs?
Please note that racizm is a disease. Racists are not racist against you because of something you have done wrong or right, but rather are so, because of who you are and who you represent.
I’m native African, I came to this country when I was 20. worked exceedingly hard, put my self through education, has accomplished exceedingly well, have never depended on the government for anything, I’m law abiding, leave well, pay taxes and so on. My family members the same.
When racists look at you, however, they do not see your accomplishments, they may not even consider that you may be better than them in all aspect. They indiscriminatingly see you as a member of a group of people, and treat you just as such. In their opinion, you are Black, therefore you are treated with the same desdain, contempt and desregard (a lack of decorum) they have reserved exclusively for Blacks.
Pure ignorance!
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Abagond said:
…while Leigh is way less racist than most white people (as far as I can tell), Sagat is way worse.
I found that statement funny. The majority of Whites do everything in their power to avoid living around Blacks (including liberal Whites). I actually live in a Black neighborhood. I’m not saying that this fact alone makes me the pinnacle of tolerance, but I think you’re mistaken if you think that most Whites don’t hold similar views to mine with regards to racial differences. Your recent “Three Bears” post about racial stereotypes is actually a reflection of commonly held beliefs in America regarding races.
Most of my comments are pretty benign, so I find it amusing that some make accusations about me “hating Black and Brown folks” and other such nonsense. On this blog, I’ve never said anything harsh about other races.
In real life, I regularly meet Whites that drop the N bomb around me, even after just meeting me, which is something that I never do. Recently, when my truck was broken into, the police that showed up told me that it was just TNB. I was kinda shocked that they would say such a thing knowing the ramifications if I were to report them. I don’t know what it is about me, but Whites seem to think that they can just let loose with their racial grievances when they talk to me. Just from my personal experiences, I can honestly say that most Whites are way worse than me when it comes to racism.
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@fancyface,
I’ve been reading that Japan and China are going into African countries en masse, for business, economic etc. What are the relationships between native Nigerians, black South Africans etc? I would think that there would be better interpersonal relations… Also, once it is determined that you are in fact, not a Black American, do the relationships improve? I work in an environment with a large population of both white Americans and a diverse mix of Asian Americans and other Asian ethnicities. Both groups seem to have a positive interdependant relationship; unlike the very small black American population.
At a meeting a year ago, I mentioned how there was a very positive interdependant relationship between the two groups in the American context, and I was met with a round of applause. With regards to the MacLeans article, I am a bit surprised that Canadians (some) are in arms about their recent citizens, who are doing well. Is that racism, or nativism?
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Oyan, you might find this interesting
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx/t230615.htm
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‘King’, thank you for the link! Things look very positive for this African-China collaboration; however with my cynic nature, I ‘fear’ the Chinese interchange may turn into China being/becoming the new colonialist on board.
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No matter how evil China could possibly be, i don’t see how they could fare worse than the european attempts.
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China is an emerging superpower. There is no country in Africa that can rival it, so yes, to some degree, it will be a collaboration between unequal powers.
However, China really has an opportunity to think different. If China proves to be a more responsible partner than the Western nations have been, then they are going to emerge as the superpower that people want to do business with, worldwide. If they seem to be more fair than the West has been, that is going to favor their future business endeavors for decades to come.
However, if they just become the same imperialists with a different hue of skin, than they will lose any advantage.
We’ll see which way they choose.
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fancyface says,
Please note that racizm is a disease. Racists are not racist against you because of something you have done wrong or right, but rather are so, because of who you are and who you represent.
I’m native African, I came to this country when I was 20. worked exceedingly hard, put my self through education, has accomplished exceedingly well, have never depended on the government for anything, I’m law abiding, leave well, pay taxes and so on. My family members the same.
When racists look at you, however, they do not see your accomplishments, they may not even consider that you may be better than them in all aspect. They indiscriminatingly see you as a member of a group of people, and treat you just as such. In their opinion, you are Black, therefore you are treated with the same desdain, contempt and desregard (a lack of decorum) they have reserved exclusively for Blacks.
Pure ignorance!
laromana says,
EXCELLENT comment, fancyface.
Some truths are UGLY and MANY try to DENY them as a result.
ANTI-BLACK RACISM/RACISTS in America have NEVER been RATIONAL and NEVER will be.
That is why the INSTITUTIONAL MADNESS of ANTI-BLACK RACISM must be DESTROYED, NOT understood/rationalized.
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Sagat,
The police probably felt comfortable saying that because you are Asian. Generally speaking Asians are seen as model minorities and thought to empathize more with white people than say, brown and especially black folks. And as the comments on this post show there are black people that feel Asians are very harsh in their treatment of Black Americans. Given all that its not too shocking that a white police will feel comfortable talking to you,someone he just, meet about “Typical N*gger Behavior”.
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@ Sagat:
Most of my comments are pretty benign, so I find it amusing that some make accusations about me “hating Black and Brown folks” and other such nonsense. On this blog, I’ve never said anything harsh about other races.
Maybe it is the company you keep. I haven’t read your blog extensively, but I notice it being a magnet for out-and-out racists who you seem to tacitly encourage, or at very least do nothing to dissuade. Same goes for some other HBD blogs that seem to be in your sphere of influence.
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@Eurasian Sensation,
Maybe it is the company you keep. I haven’t read your blog extensively, but I notice it being a magnet for out-and-out racists who you seem to tacitly encourage, or at very least do nothing to dissuade. Same goes for some other HBD blogs that seem to be in your sphere of influence.
Yeah, you’re right that there are a few hard core haters that have visited my blog. A lot of that was my fault because I was too lenient with moderating comments. I usually like to get a mix of voices because I think that makes interesting dialogue, but it does tend to get lopsided in the conversations. I’m not denying that I have views that some on this blog would deem to be racist, but I’m never hateful towards others and find the fact that some condemn me as some kind of extremist to be pretty funny.
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I’m curious why many people here are so negative towards “statistical observations” just because they pertain to race. This seems like a purposeful blindspot which seeks to short circuit a proven evolutionary adaptation. We’re pattern-seeking creatures, and for the most part those skills serve us well.
For the black readers here, I’d like to ask the following:
– Have you ever felt a greater level of anxiety when approached by or pulled over by a white policeman vs. a non-white policeman?
– Would you feel the EXACT same level of concern if you were walking down a dark and empty street, turned the corner and came upon a group of black teen males vs. a group of asian teen females?
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I’m not denying that I have views that some on this blog would deem to be racist…
I don’t see why you yourself don’t see that these fit into the classical definition of “racist:”
–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
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For the black readers here, I’d like to ask the following:
– Have you ever felt a greater level of anxiety when approached by or pulled over by a white policeman vs. a non-white policeman?
Anxiety towards both; the thin blue line is real, and oftimes, blk police operate to prove their ‘fealty’ to their
bosses.
– Would you feel the EXACT same level of concern if you were walking down a dark and empty street, turned the corner and came upon a group of black teen males vs. a group of asian teen females?
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I would be nervous being out at night, period; depends on how the young black males looked, ie. preppy vs. ‘urban’. I told in another post of young white male who presented as preppy, but then made threatening communication with me; have had things thrown from cars at me/with the refrains of ‘the ‘n’ word’ being tossed my way from a car of young yt males.
I am anxious with a room full of Asian teen females, (instructor) who often ‘press’ for grades; and have gone to dept. chair to complain about ‘their homework assignment’!!!!!. Seriously. Not good for evaluations/job stability, whereas blk students will approach me with their concerns. Different type of ‘danger’/passive-aggressive behavior. It is all about context and situation.
I was ‘run out’ of an Asian owned beauty supply store twice, now, when I enter any beauty supply stores, and see that the owner is perhaps, Asian, I experience anxiety.
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I’m curious why many people here are so negative towards “statistical observations” just because they pertain to race.
Probably because they so seldom stop at statistical observations, and usually jump into trying to guess at the reasons behind the statistics.
A dangerous game when you haven’t been trained to make those leaps.
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@ Oyan:
Thumbs up for your brilliant and insightful response to that irrational, ignorant, stereotypical, brainwashed, prejudicial rethorical question.
Now you see their line of thoughts?…. Now you begin to understand what I mean all along?
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– Have you ever felt a greater level of anxiety when approached by or pulled over by a white policeman vs. a non-white policeman?
Are you referring to before or after I’ve pulled out my gun(most blacks carry guns don’t you know!)? If the policeman is good looking, I flirt with him, hence the situations is alleviated. If he is particularly good looking, I ask him for a date. I prefer being pulled over by a non-white policeman though. There are quite a few good looking ones!
– Would you feel the EXACT same level of concern if you were walking down a dark and empty street, turned the corner and came upon a group of black teen males vs. a group of asian teen females?
It depends. I would stop and ask the teenage boys what they were doing out so late at night, where were their parents, etc. After chastising them, I would continue on my way. I would then stop and ask myself this: “What the he** I am I doing out late at night, walking about a dark empty street”? As for the Asian girl teens, I would stop and talk to them about where I could get a great deal on handbags, footwear etc. After walking on. I would ask myself what the f*ck am I doing walking around a dark street at night? What the he** type of question is that to be asking folk. Who meanders dark and abandoned streets at night unless they are 1) insane; or 2) up to no good; 3) is in law enforcement and is patrolling the area. Try to come up with more realistic questions to prove your point, that is if you have one.
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Mel is one of the most insightful people I’ve come across in blog land. She says/thinks many of things I thought only I noticed.
*chic noir waves over café girl*
her drinks are on me *points to mel*
🙂
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randy Have you ever felt a greater level of anxiety when approached by or pulled over by a white policeman vs. a non-white policeman?
I don’t drive but I’m afriad of cops of any color. Even those who are goodlooking wit big muscles.
Would you feel the EXACT same level of concern if you were walking down a dark and empty street, turned the corner and came upon a group of black teen males vs. a group of asian teen females
the males of any group before the females of any group because men are violent by nature and nurture. also I’m pretty sure the women wouldn’t try to gang rape me. but of course I would be afraid of a gang of females hanging on an empty street.
funny enough, I have a little story about being locked in a factory come warehouse for about 30 minutes with a group of asian women.
so not fun my friend
:afraid:
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King said:
I don’t see why you yourself don’t see that these fit into the classical definition of “racist:”
That definition implies that racism is a belief in racial supremacy, something I have never advocated. And the most standard connotation to the term is that it involves hatred for other racial groups.
If you think racism simply means acknowledging group differences, then you can call me a racist, but you should also call the majority of the world racists as well. Most people don’t hold the view that all people are exactly the same, something many on this blog like to point out. In polite society, most tiptoe around this, but the very fact that we’ve developed a shaming culture that has made discussing this one of the ultimate taboos reveals how deeply held the belief is among the majority.
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@King
Actually my parents did have an issue with a korean boyfriend I was with. I was never asked if it was because he was korean by anyone.
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Oyan
@fancyface,
I’ve been reading that Japan and China are going into African countries en masse, for business, economic etc. What are the relationships between native Nigerians, black South Africans etc? I would think that there would be better interpersonal relations… Also, once it is determined that you are in fact, not a Black American, do the relationships improve? I work in an environment with a large population of both white Americans and a diverse mix of Asian Americans and other Asian ethnicities. Both groups seem to have a positive interdependant relationship; unlike the very small black American population.
At a meeting a year ago, I mentioned how there was a very positive interdependant relationship between the two groups in the American context, and I was met with a round of applause. With regards to the MacLeans article, I am a bit surprised that Canadians (some) are in arms about their recent citizens, who are doing well. Is that racism, or nativism?
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@Oyan
I have heard they are doing business there as well. I also heard that a country in Africa are labeling Chinese black. Not sure the whole story on that. I just remember my ex who told me the story and asian friend (i’m guessing Chinese) said, “i guess we’re n***** now”. I think my ex was offended by it to. *shrug* go figure.
I also saw many Africans in China. I think there was some trouble with that too. African kids going to the university. Not sure, I have to look that stuff up. It fleets my memory.
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@Sagat
What is TNB?
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“That definition implies that racism is a belief in racial supremacy”
It doesn’t really. It says that it usually involves the idea of racial superiority. It does not however, say that such a belief is necessary for racism to occur.
If you think racism simply means acknowledging group differences, then you can call me a racist…
People can perceive groups to be different without racism occurring. For instance Goths can be different than Jocks in a high school, but it has nothing to do with race. Racism is when you extrapolate the differences to be BECAUSE of race.
Most people don’t hold the view that all people are exactly the same…
But that’s really a red herring since anti-racists don’t say that all “groups” are the same, they just find no evidence that the differences are rooted in racial genetics.
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@Mei Ly-
they have and it’s for resources. Africa is about to go thru another round of colonization. I’m darn sure of it. China is building fast and they need natural resources and of course Africa is ripe with natural resources.
Expect to hear about negative things happening in the congo for years to come. It’s so ripe with natural resources. Colton, minerals, uranium for nuclear weapons* etc…
The congo has some of the best uranium around for building nuclear weapons.
I really wish Africans would stop with the tribalism, clan etc… and get it together to protect themselves from those with negative intentions.
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*sighs…rubs temples*
Abagond…I don’t know how you do it.
I believe the focus of your post was about parental incompetence and white denial. And yet somehow, some folks took it as a cue to convene a eugenics committee while indulging their anti-Asian racism.
*shakes head*
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@chic Noir
I really agree. I wish they would just unify and put up a good front.
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“I also saw many Africans in China. I think there was some trouble with that too. African kids going to the university. Not sure, I have to look that stuff up. It fleets my memory.”
I recall reading an online article a few years back about the issues Chinese officials were having with African male students dating local Chinese women. It seems the crux of the issue was the officials’ fear that Black African DNA would soon be doing the backstroke in the Chinese gene pool….
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@ankhesen mie
i hope i don’t come across as one of those people cause I’m not.
*chic noir gives ankhesen mie some asprin for her headache*
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There is def more than white denial in this board.
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Mei Ly There is def more than white denial in this board.
please explain.
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@chic noir
oops…i meant to say world. but i guess you can use for the board too.
i think in this world people want to ignore how others feel about things and just write them off.
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that’s true mei ly
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@fancyface:”Thumbs up for your brilliant and insightful response to that irrational, ignorant, stereotypical, brainwashed, prejudicial rethorical question.
Now you see their line of thoughts?…. Now you begin to understand what I mean all along?”
Actually, oyan appears to have reinforced my point, exhibiting concerns based upon ethnicity (“I am anxious with a room full of Asian teen females”, “when I enter any beauty supply stores, and see that the owner is perhaps, Asian, I experience anxiety.”) and socioeconomic class/ culture (“…ie. preppy vs. ‘urban’”).
This seems perfectly reasonable given his experiences.
It’s rather well known that in the US, young black males commit much more street crime than do young asian females, so it would be perfectly reasonable to be more anxious about running into young black males in the street.
Jesse Jackson basically made a similar observation when he said, “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
By the same token, a black person who felt they’d been unfairly harassed by white police officers in the past would be perfectly reasonable to feel anxiety upon coming into contact with other white cops.
Chic Noir apparently feels similarly about asian females in factory environments.
My point here is that such pattern matching seems to be normal, healthy, and is very likely a critical survival adaptation.
However, I completely agree with oyan that, “It is all about context and situation.”, and I think King is on the mark as well.
What’s most interesting to me is that both “racists” and “anti-racists” appear to suffer from a kind of symmetrical myopia. Racists think that broad patterns mean everything, while anti-racists think they mean nothing.
The most intellectually honest approach is to acknowledge these observed patterns, but to neither over nor under extrapolate them to other situations.
Not only does this require effort, but a person must also have the maturity to set aside any unqualified idealism they might possess.
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@BleuParfum
Do you think you could find that article. It is what I read a while ago. I wonder if relations have improved.
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I did read the online diary of an african student in China . It’s written in French ,though. He wrote about how students had to face different obstacles such as mental breakdown and stuff.
A particular tale caught my attention, it was about the dating success of the African students. I’m not saying they were Casanova , dropping girls like apples. But apparently , for the school’s official , that was already too much, and after using different policies in order to counter this phenomenon, rumors were deliberately spread that african students were bearers of the h.i.v. . This worked wonderfully.
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It is funny how the first comment can decide the outcome of the conversation in a thread.
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@Aiyo
It happens.
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How Whites Use Asians to Further Anti-Black Racism
By Tim Wise
Published as a ZNet Commentary, October 7, 2002
It happened again, for what seems like the millionth time. Once again, in response to something I said about ongoing racism in the United States, someone (a white male, naturally) pulled out the all-too-common conservative race card (oh yes, they have one), which they believe disproves the existence of racial injustice. It sounds a bit like this:
“If racism is such a big deal in America, then why have Asians done so well? Why is Asian income higher than white income? And doesn’t this prove that the real problem with blacks is their own lack of effort?”
Offered this challenge most recently by a disgruntled county employee in Minneapolis who resented having to sit through a speech I had given, I rolled my eyes, took a deep breath and considered the irony of the query (ironic because it always comes from whites who insist on their “color-blindness”) before replying.
As I pondered my response, I thought about the Asian women working twelve hours a day in sweatshops both abroad and in places like L.A. to make clothes for people like this guy’s kids; and I wondered, in what sense were they doing so well? I thought about Vietnamese youth in California who are profiled as gang members by police, for wearing the “wrong” colors; and I wondered, in what sense were they doing so well? I thought about the Asian families whose members have to put in eighty hours a week just to keep their heads above water; and I wondered, in what sense were they doing so well? I thought about the Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi taxi drivers who endure crappy working conditions, customers who get pissy about their accents or “attitudes,” and cops who are responsible for nearly eighty percent of all anti-South Asian attacks in places like New York — often against these same taxi drivers — and I wondered, in what sense were they doing so well? I thought about the demonization of Wen Ho Lee, and Chinese American political contributors during the Clinton Administration; and the beating death of Vincent Chin; and the persistent refrain that the Japanese are “buying up America,” and I wondered, in what sense were they doing so well? But instead of getting into those things, which likely wouldn’t have been seen as responsive by my detractor, I offered the following.
First, I noted that the Asian “model minority” myth has long been a staple of white conservative race commentary, though rarely have members of the various Asian communities in the U.S. pushed the notion themselves. The genesis of this argumentation goes back to the 1950s and ’60s, when prominent magazines ran articles lauding the “hard-working” Chinese or Japanese, and explicitly contrasting their “success” with the “failure” of African Americans. That they offered such a contrast at the height of the modern civil rights movement — as if to say to black folks, “stop complaining about racism and just work harder” — should not be lost on anyone. Of course, none of these magazines ever editorialized in favor of lifting immigration restrictions that had kept Asian populations small in the U.S. from the 1880s until 1965, despite their respect for the “model minorities.” Neither did any such admirers speak out against internment of hard-working Japanese Americans during World War Two, or the killing of hard-working Southeast Asians during the Vietnam War.
Secondly, I explained that comparisons between blacks and Asian Pacific Americans (APAs) overlook a number of differences between them. Whereas the black population represents a cross-section of background, the APA community is highly self-selected. Voluntary migrants from nations that are not contiguous to their country of destination tend to have the skills and money needed to leave their home country in the first place. As many scholars have found, Asian immigrants are largely drawn from an occupational and educational elite in their countries of origin.
Indeed, Asian success in the U.S. relative to others is largely due to immigration policies that favor immigrants with pre-existing skills and education. As the Glass Ceiling Commission discovered in 1995, between two-thirds and three-quarters of the highly educated APA community already had college degrees before coming to the U.S., or were in college upon arrival. Thanks to preferences for educated immigrants, APAs are two-thirds more likely than whites and three times more likely than blacks to have a college degree. More than 8 in 10 Indian immigrants from 1966-1977 had advanced degrees and training in such areas as science, medicine or engineering.
Pre-existing educational advantages are implicated in Asian success, but hardly indicate genetic or cultural superiority. After all, to claim superior Asian genes or culture as the reasons for achievement in the U.S. requires one to ignore the rampant poverty of persons from the same backgrounds in their countries of origin. There is no shortage, after all, of desperately poor Asians in the slums of Manila, Calcutta and Hong Kong: testament to the absurdity of cultural superiority claims for Asians as a group.
Indeed, if one examines ethnic Koreans in Japan and the Burakumin there — a minority treated much like the Dalits and other lower caste persons in India — one finds the same kind of consistent underperformance relative to the dominant Japanese in terms of education and employment status. Both are targets of discrimination, and although they are culturally and genetically indistinguishable from other Koreans or Japanese, they are consistently found at the bottom of Japanese society, and do worse than others in Japan and Korea. Not only does this debunk the notion of pan-Asian cultural superiority, it also suggests that a group’s caste status influences group outcomes: much as with blacks in the U.S., whose position has been similar to the Burakumin and ethnic Koreans in Japan.
The primary argument put forth on behalf of the model minority myth is that APA income in the U.S. is higher than the average for other people of color and even whites. As such, it is suggested, racial discrimination must be long gone. But data showing Asians doing better than whites is family and household data, not per capita income data. This is important because APA households and families tend to have more family members (thus, slightly higher incomes have to cover more persons), and more earners per family (thus, it takes more folks working so as to earn only slightly more than whites, with fewer income earners). The average Asian household size, for example, is 3.3 persons, compared to only 2.5 per household for whites. Likewise, Asian American families are more likely than white families to have two income earners, and nearly twice as likely to have three earners. So while Asian household and family income is higher than that for whites, the median income per person is lower for Asians: as much as $2000 less annually.
An additional reason why the average income of Asian families is higher than that of whites is because Asians are concentrated in parts of the country that have higher average incomes and costs of living. The three states with the largest Asian populations and a disproportionate share of the overall Asian population (California, New York and Hawaii), rank 13th, 4th, and 16th in terms of average income: all within the top third of states. Whereas 76 percent of Asian Americans live in the higher-income regions of the West and Northeast, only 41 percent of whites and 28 percent of blacks are in these regions. Over half of all APAs in the U.S. live in just five major U.S. cities (Honolulu, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City): all of which have higher than average household incomes, and much higher costs of living than most of the U.S.
According to the Census Bureau, in 1996, median household income was $35,500. But in states with disproportionate shares of Asians (NY and Hawaii, for example), median household income was $39,000 and $42,000 respectively. This means that APA median income will be skewed upward, relative to the rest of the country, but given cost of living differences, actual disposable income and living standards will be no better and often worse.
More importantly, claims of Asian success obscure the fact that the Asian American child poverty rate is nearly double the white rate, and according to a New York Times report in May of 1996, Southeast Asians have the highest rates of welfare dependence of any racial or ethnic group in the United States. Nearly half of all Southeast Asian immigrants and refugees in the U.S. live in poverty, with annual incomes in 1990 of less than $10,000 per year. Amazingly, even those Southeast Asians with college degrees face obstacles. Two-thirds of Lao and Hmong-American college graduates live below the poverty level, as do nearly half of Cambodian Americans and over a third of Vietnamese Americans with degrees.
Indeed, Asian “success” rhetoric ignores the persistent barriers to advancement faced by Asians relative to whites. On average, APAs with a college degree earn 11 percent less than comparable whites, and APAs with a high school diploma earn, on average, 26 percent less than their white counterparts. When Asian American men have qualifications comparable to white men, they still receive fewer high-ranking positions than those same white men. APA male engineers and scientists are 20 percent less likely than white men to move into management positions in their respective companies, despite no differences in ambition or desire for such positions.
Beyond statistics, there are other points to be made. First, if whites truly believe that Asians are culturally superior and add to the quality of schools and workplaces, then why aren’t these folks clamoring for a massive increase in immigration from Asian nations? Why not flood the borders, since we could all benefit from a little more Asian genius? Why not have white CEOs step down from their positions and let Japanese managers take their place?
Secondly, whites who trumpet the model minority concept would be the first to object if Asian Americans began to bump their own white children from college slots, even if they did so by way of higher test scores and “merit” indicators. Just ask yourself what would happen if next year the top 3500 applicants to U.C.-Berkeley, in terms of SAT score and grades, happened to be Asian Americans, especially since there are only 3500 slots in the freshman class. Would the regents allow the freshman class at the state’s flagship school to become 100 percent Asian? Or for that matter even 80 percent or 70 percent? How would white Californians react to such a development, including those who praise hard-working Asian kids for their educational excellence and scholarly achievements? How would white alums react if their favorite “model minorities” were suddenly seen as taking slots not from black and Latino youth, but from their own white children? To ask the question is to answer it.
And finally, to argue that “Asians have made it, so why can’t blacks,” is to misunderstand the issue of moral and ethical responsibility to correct the harm of wrongful actions. Even if we accept that groups victimized by racism can “make it” without affirmative action or reparations, that would not deny (or indeed speak to in any way) the fact that society has an obligation to compensate the victims of injustice. After all, if my leg is blown off in an industrial accident, it hardly matters that many people with only one leg go on to succeed. The issue of compensatory justice remains, irrespective of what gains one can make without compensation.
I have little reason to think that any of this made a difference to the individual who chose that day to trumpet Asian success as a way to denigrate blacks. Given some of his other comments — that black promiscuity was to blame for AIDS in Africa, and that he resented the “fact” that his black son (presumably adopted) has more opportunity in life than his white son, despite the fact that the former is unemployed and the latter in college — his ability to rationally decipher much of anything seems doubtful. Nonetheless, challenging the model minority myth is a worthwhile enterprise, especially when one considers how many decent, well-meaning individuals often fall for it.
Those who trumpet “Asian values and culture” (based on stereotypical understandings of both, not unlike the white guys who covet mail-order Asian brides for their anticipated “docility”), do Asians no favors. If anything, they set them up in a way that not only harms the groups against which they are contrasted, but in a way that harms Asians as well. To be considered a group filled with math and science geniuses and passive, sensual, and willing female companions, not only objectifies Asian Pacific Americans, but results in a special stigma for those in the various Asian groups who aren’t good in school, don’t know how to fix your computer nor care to do so, or who don’t fit the sexist stereotypes that are so comforting to Western male tastes.
The model minority myth, in other words, is a setup: a carrot offered to certain groups so long as they don’t get out of line, assert their rights, strike for better wages, or try to determine their own sexuality. And as with all carrots, there is an even bigger stick, ready to throttle those who don’t go along with the game. Ultimately, justice and equity will remain elusive so long as whites feel no compunction about using one group of color against another group of color, in an attempt to make fools of both.
http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/confusionethic.html
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I find that Americans have different views about Asians compare to Canadians and Australians and Europeans.
I think it’s because most Americans get their views,ideas etc from what they see on tv rather from real experiences.I think it’s also due to the fact most Americans have never travel outside of the U.S.
They have this fantasy notion about Asians being docile,lol.I don’t think they would the same views if most have travel to Asia and live amongst these people.
Asians are portrayed as smart,dorky,submissive etc… in American media so Americans don’t see them as a threat.
Where the American media portray Blacks and Hispanics as criminals,loud etc….
I think many Asians in America love that model minority logo,so they try very hard to live up to the label.
One of my friend is from Russia told me that she was confused to why Asians assume that Whites sees them as White.
The reason most White Americans accept Asians is because they have Blacks and Hispanics to hate,so Asians go under the radar.
Do Asians think if it was just them and Whites in America,they would live happily together?
Canadian or Australian Whites do not view Asians the same.
In Canada and Australia Asians are the Mexicans there.
If you go to some sites like Craigslist(Toronto) section you will find many posts about White Canadians disdain/dislike for Asians.
In Australia Asians face many racism from Whites,so Asians would like you to believe that Whites love them long time.
No matter how much they worship Whites,well Whites never see them as one of them.
Whites know that Asians worship them to the point of obsession. Which is one of the reason Asian women will settle for any type of White man,as long he’s White.Many White men know that with Asian women it’s a sure thing and they don’t have to work hard for it.
I have many White male friends who tell me that Asian women are easy to get and will do anything behind closed doors for White men.
Many White men who have a hard time getting an attractive White women go the Asian route because it’s a sure thing.
They are usually bitter towards White women because they had to settle.Asian women ego gets really excited when the reject White men bash White women.They don’t realized that White men are dissing them too.It’s obvious you weren’t his first choice and he’s angry because he’s settling for you.If he was truly happy with you.he wouldn’t waste his time bashing White women.
Asian women think White men sees them as equal to White men and the harsh reality is that they don’t.
People of other races do have self-hate issues but Asians have won the awards for self-hate.
I noticed also on some sites when Asians are attacked by Whites they go after Blacks or Hispanics not Whites.I guess they can’t accept the fact that some Whites don’t like them and can be racist towards Asians.
Asians are a bunch of weird people.
They are cold,un-sincere, two faced,no personality and you can’t trust them because they are chameleon.
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@ canadianexpat:
While there is some truth to what you’re saying regarding some Asians. Again, the generalizations made here make me bristle.
Yes, I’m sure you’ve met the billions of Asians in this world to make that assumption.
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Some of the views spread here are exactly the same views shared by people who tried to harm me, my family and friends either because they are Asian, part Asian or involved with an Asian in some way. The same views shared by the type of people who threw bricks at children because they were not White. Maybe those here spreading these beliefs would neither participate in nor encourage such behaviour, but I am sure certain individuals would be all too happy to use their views to justify violence towards Asians and most likely other groups who are not White. This is why, even if people of other ethnicities have been inconceivably cruel to me, I wouldn’t even dream of generalising those individuals’ traits to an entire race and possibly inciting hatred of them due to my presumptions.
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@ Ella:
Co-sign!
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Has anyone read the Asian Mystique by chance?
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“Asians are a bunch of weird people.
They are cold,un-sincere, two faced,no personality and you can’t trust them because they are chameleon.”
Geez… Just go ahead and cut the eyeholes into you white sheet. You put the “stereo” in stereotype.
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amen abagond! perfect post. you put into words so eloquently what i’ve always felt but never knew how to voice growing up in white, mid-western america! now i have some cannon if the time comes and i should need it.
as for college admissions, my generation of asian-americans (young 20-somethings) has long known that our ethnicity is actually a hindrance, and not a help, when applying for top schools for exactly the reasons you mentioned. it’s nice to see someone else take notice!
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@fancyface
“You Asians… myopic”
Quit your racist whining. There’s racism everywhere, on both sides, and anti-racists on both sides, and it’s long been a white tactic to pit blacks and Asians against each other to weaken both sides. Don’t buy what they’re selling.
Consider, for example, the black students who attacked Asian students at South Philadelphia High in December 2009, sending 13 to the hospital. http://disgrasian.com/2010/12/disgrasian-of-the-weak-south-philadelphia-high-school-and-the-school-district-of-philadelphia/
Does this mean that all black people hate Asians and are out to get them? No, that would be a silly and weak-minded conclusion to draw from one example, or even two or three or four examples. It panders to prejudice and allows me to stay fixed in my narrow track of hate and self-righteous finger-pointing (though how you manage to point at a billion plus people over most continents escapes me) and, more importantly, does not lead to a solution. But that’s exactly what you’re doing. Think harder. Think clearer.
My very best to you.
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@ terrapin
Without your pretentious wanna be political correct rant and pant here, what is YOUR: realistical view about blacks?
What are your FAMILY’s REALISTIC views about blacks?
What are your Friends’ views about blacks?
What are your Asian communities views about blacks.
Think Hard, Think honestly, Think Clearly!
Best of Wishes to you aswell!
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“Without your pretentious wanna be political correct rant and pant here, what is YOUR: realistical view about blacks?”
Without your vicious and virulent racism you might actually be a reasonable, even pleasant person. Unfortunately it’s not really possible to separate the two, even theoretically. In the same way, my views above are my realistic views on the subject and the way I live my life. Sorry I don’t feed your confirmation bias. Deal.
I think people are people, and that any population can vary enormously, so it would be ridiculous to generalize from the limited sample of people I know. On average, in the US, the black population is getting the short end of the stick, but there are also many who have beaten the odds and are doing great. Personally, I am a hell of a lot more comfortable around black people than around white people, since all the racism I’ve experienced on campus has been from white people and I just expect more nastiness from them. The black people I know often understand a bit better what I’m going through and where I’m coming from than the white people. In my closest circle of friends, the other Asian was dating a black student, and the other Asians I know are generally cool with everyone. My family’s views are similar to mine. My church is mostly Asian with significant numbers of blacks and Hispanics.
Yup, we Asians can be decent human beings! Sorry to disappoint you.
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@ terrapin:
WHAT? You mean people are individuals and not everyone fits neatly into someone’s stereotype?
What an incredible concept. It’ll never catch on.
😉
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@ Terapin:
On that token, then you cannot generalize on all whites. Nor can you so in blacks. I will use your words: “Humans are humans, there are good and bad in every race” You remember that! Oh by the way, I’m not a racist, my husband is Caucasian.
I was merely speaking from the experiences that I’ve had with most Asians, they have so far not been pleasant. I can honestly tell you that I find whites far more forthright, forthcoming, much more benevolent and benign to blacks(of recent years) than Asians(at present) as far as my experiences go.
I understand your wanting to be diplomatic and politically correct in your postings here, but talking the talk is usually far easier than walking the walk!
Perhaps my views will change when my experiences with these groups change. For now, it remains just what it is. Ciao!
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It amazes how the entire thread of comments diverged from the original blog post (which I found interesting).
In any case, the USA and Canada needs people who value education and working hard and who study topics like Math, Science and engineering. The universities should be there to prepare the country to meet the challenges ahead, not just social entertainment.
But the blog post missed a few ideas that the article mentioned, eg, the splintering and self-segregation taking place on university campuses.
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Kiwi, Agree that the Anti-Asian quotas at private elite universities is a most egregious form of institutional racism, but I am not sure it is the “biggest”. There are several “big” ones out there. 😛
It certainly does not make sense if more Asians get higher grades and higher college entrance exam scores than, say, Jews, yet get accepted at much lower rates, unless there is some racist quota involved. I can imagine in many East Coast suburbs (and in other parts of the country also), where half or more of the population of Asian + Jewish, you could find high schools where Jews with lower academic performance got accepted to universities which rejected their Asian-American classmates, time and time again.
The article you cited claims that the anti-Asian bias in universities is higher than the anti-Jewish bias 80-90 years ago.
Part of it could be explained by such things as preference for children of alumni, but I suspect that many Asian-Americans have already figured out what is going on. All we need is to have it proven.Or maybe we can take them to court?
One of my Asian schoolmates from universities has kids who are now applying to university. She married (and divorced) their white British father, but when they applied to our alma mater and other US, universities she had them all mark themselves as “white” so that they could have a better chance of getting accepted.
I disagree that the main reason is because Jews can hide their ancestry. As “almost white” and with their power and influence in America, they no longer need to hide their ancestry to nearly the degree that they needed to do it 80-90 years ago. The university I went to near Boston (next to Harvard) was almost 35% Jewish, second only to Brandeis in the Boston area. My university closed for Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana. Half the residents of my freshman year dorm were Jewish. Jews there did not have to hide their ethnic background at all. They are already basically white, but anyhow, they made it clear that there was nothing wrong with being Jewish.
BTW, I notice that they tended to pair Jewish roommates with each other, non-Jewish whites with other non-Jewish whites and non-Jewish non-whites with other non-Jewish non-whites.
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This quote which originally came from the New York magazine is an interesting follow-up to this topic.
http://www.popbioethics.com/2011/05/asian-like-me-the-race-that-isnt-there/
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Reblogged this on Living in Anglo-America and commented:
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