Irish Americans are people who live in the US who came from Ireland. Most came during the 1800s, driven by poverty and famine. Only Britain and Germany have sent more people from Europe.
The Irish were poor, foreign, Catholic. Few could read. They were the “scum of Europe”, but they spoke English and, even better, they had white skin.
By the early 1800s, British landlords had taken over most of Ireland. They used it to get rich by raising cows, pigs and sheep for the British market. Most of the Irish were thrown off their land and out of work. They sank into poverty. They lived in houses made of mud and straw and ate mostly potatoes. Even Irish craftsmen were thrown out of work once factory-made goods started arriving from Britain.
And then it got even worse.
One day in July 1845 the leaves on the potato plants started to turn black. It spread across the island. Nearly half the potato crop failed that year. The Irish Potato Famine went on for nine years. A million people died. The British landlords had enough food to feed half the island but they continued to sell their food to Britain instead.
Over a million fled to the US during the famine. Millions more came in the years that followed because the British did little about the poverty they had created.
In the US the Irish were seen at first as little better than animals. They were compared to blacks: ruled by their passions (as proved by their large families), unwilling to work hard, taking delight in lower pleasures, etc.
They were outsiders, with a strange way of talking and strange religious beliefs. They were Catholics coming to a land that was solidly Protestant.
They found themselves up against blacks and the Chinese in looking for work.
But they had one card that the blacks and the Chinese did not have: their white skin. That meant two things:
- White employers would favour them over people of colour.
- They could become citizens and vote. In the 1800s very few people of colour could vote, despite what the Constitution said.
So most of the maids and dock workers in New York, for example, went from being mostly black to being mostly Irish.
Since they settled mainly in big cities in the north their vote could be used to create and maintain political machines which would tax well-to-do whites to hire the Irish to work for the city – as policemen, firemen, contractors, etc. They also created labour unions to get better pay and working conditions – and to keep out blacks.
So in time the Irish were able to lift themselves from the bottom by taking advantage of White American racism. New York used to have Irish slums. Those are long gone. Now they mostly live in the city’s white middle-class suburbs.
See also:
Many blacks have Irish names as well—the Irish were also indentured servants, many of the Irish women had babies by blacks slaves, so they took their mothers last name. Elijah McCoy was one of them; he was a Canadian-His parents escaped slavery and h’e invented a machine that would oil the components of the engine by itself. The railroad wouldn’t be able to run without his invention. Another thing: depending on where you were: if you were black, you would be sometime treated better than other white people–the south and the east were the worst places to be. Some blacks who were married to whites out west had kids who got favors or were able to pass for white
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Isn’t it interesting how the Irish and Blacks were portrayed as looking like animals compared to the Anglo fellow who was seen as human.
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O’Bama!
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st.patrick’s day
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that should be a separate post too…or did u do that already?
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With regard to well known picture:
Isn’t it interesting how the Irish and Blacks were portrayed as looking like animals compared to the Anglo fellow who was seen as human.
Back then these things were normalised.
The caption below says:
“The Iberians are beleieved to be derived from the African race, who thousands of years ago spread through Spain and Western Europe..They came to Ireland and mingled with the natives of the South and teh West.
I think this book (or is it from a magazine) is late 1800s or early 1900s.
I have seen the image also in this book, which also shows you how the image of the Irish changed
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Ok, so I had no idea Irish were considered Iberians… I always assumed they were considered Celtic. (I know they are in my country).
And I also had no idea Iberians weren’t considered white.
But that goes against the logic of this post, which is that Irish had better chances because they were seen as white.
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I think this source is dated from a very old book. I think the Iberians they are referring to here would be like
“In the sixth millennium BC Andalusia experiences the arrival of the first agriculturalists. Their origin is uncertain (though North Africa is a serious candidate) but they arrive with already developed crops (cereals and legumes). The presence of domestic animals instead is unlikely, as only pig and rabbit remains have been found and these could belong to wild animals. They also consumed large amounts of olives but it’s uncertain too whether this tree was cultivated or merely harvested in its wild form. Their typical fossil is the La Almagra style pottery, quite variegated…
The Phoenicians of Asia, Greeks of Europe, and Carthaginians of Africa all colonized parts of Iberia to facilitate trade. During the tenth century BC the first contacts between Phoenicians and Iberia (along the Mediterranean coast) were made. This century also saw the emergence of towns and cities in the southern littoral areas of eastern Iberia…
The Phoenicians founded colony of Gadir (modern Cádiz) near Tartessos. The foundation of Cádiz, the oldest continuously-inhabited city in western Europe, is traditionally dated to 1104 BC, although, as of 2004, no archaeological discoveries date back further than the ninth century BC…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia
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But that goes against the logic of this post, which is that Irish had better chances because they were seen as white.
They weren’t actually considered white until it was deemed “safer” in terms of numbers for the wealthy white elite to start considering other pale-skinned groups (Jews, Italians, etc.) as “white” in order to maintain the All-American “us vs. them” mentality.
And voila, the white American identity forged. But, LOL, we’ve talked about that.
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Interesting how it’s all of a sudden become acceptable to talk about how whiteness itself is not a given. 6 months ago, if anyone mentioned that the Irish had not always been considered white, they would have been accused (by Ank first and foremost) of articulating the “Irish were slaves too”, meme.
I’m guessing that Painter’s recent book has something to do with this sea-change. Not that many people have had time to read it yet, mind…
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Mira:
The people in Spain used to be Celts as were most people in western Europe before Roman times.
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Thad:
From what I remember the Irish and the Jews have long been used in the comments on this blog as examples of how whiteness in America has changed over time. And this was before Painter’s book came out.
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Peanut:
I have not done a post on St Patrick, but that is a good idea. Thanks.
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Mira:
I used that picture to make the point that the Irish were once seen as lesser beings. Their good standing as whites did not take place over night.
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My ancestors were brought to America over one hundred years before the potato famine, during the mass enslavement (it was enslavement, many were beaten and worked to death) of the Scottish and Irish prisoners of Cromwell’s war. Most of them were sent to the Caribbean, but some of them were sent to Virginia and New England.
Mira
If you are interested, here is a link on Galicia. It is a region in northwestern Spain, it is very heavily influenced by Celtic customs and music. It is one of the few areas outside the British Isles that is still considered Celtic.
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Here is the source of the picture:
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J:
Oh, beautiful! Thank you!
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Mira
I have been told I look Mediterranean so often that I almost expect it now on every first date.
I kind of look like this guy.
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From what I remember the Irish and the Jews have long been used in the comments on this blog as examples of how whiteness in America has changed over time. And this was before Painter’s book came out.
Yes, on this blog more than most. But still, on many of those occasions, the people commenting on this fact were accused of articulating the “Irish were slaves too” meme.
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Thad
Yeah I got that when I first came on this blog.
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Ó Dochartaigh
If you are interested, here is a link on Galicia. It is a region in northwestern Spain, it is very heavily influenced by Celtic customs and music. It is one of the few areas outside the British Isles that is still considered Celtic.
I know about Galicia and the movement of the Celts. I am an archaeologist, and part of Serbia and my own city were territories where Celts lived. I wasn’t talking about it. I was simply surprised to learn how “Iberians” were perceived.
Abagond
The people in Spain used to be Celts as were most people in western Europe before Roman times.
This is not entirely correct. Celts were not indigenous to Spain. They expanded their culture in late Iron Age and they lived in various Eurpean locations: Britich isles, Spain, Eastern Europe, even today’s Turkey.
For example: Scordisci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scordisci
But you can’t really say they were indigenous or that all the territories where they lived became exclusively Celtic before the Romans came. Sure, they mixed with local populations but before them- and after them- there were other ethnic groups living in said territories. That’s why I didn’t get the connection: why would Spain be connected with Celts and not, for example, Visigoths?
Ok, I know, I’m trying to discuss a pseudo science like it is an actual science.
I have been told I look Mediterranean so often that I almost expect it now on every first date.
I found it interesting and funny because, well, that guy doesn’t look any “darker” to me than an average person I see on the street- and I am not sure if Balkan people are considered Mediterranean or not. The girl is very light, though.
Ankhesen Mié
They weren’t actually considered white until it was deemed “safer” in terms of numbers for the wealthy white elite to start considering other pale-skinned groups (Jews, Italians, etc.) as “white” in order to maintain the All-American “us vs. them” mentality.
True, true.
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They weren’t actually considered white until it was deemed “safer” in terms of numbers for the wealthy white elite to start considering other pale-skinned groups (Jews, Italians, etc.) as “white” in order to maintain the All-American “us vs. them” mentality.
Digby Baltzell’s books are required reading for anyone interested in what actually occurred and the probable reasons for it:
Philadelphia Gentlemen: The Making of a National Upper Class (1958)
American Business Aristocracy (1962)
The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America (1964)
Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia: Two Protestant Ethics and the Spirit of Class Authority and Leadership (1979)
The Protestant Establishment Revisited (1991)
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Mira
“that guy doesn’t look any “darker” to me than an average person I see on the street”
Well I guess it has more to do with hair and facial features than skin color. Many Italians are pale yet they still look Mediterranean.
Since your an Archeologist you probably already know this, but the Genetic makeup of the British Isles is mostly from Iberia and the Basque region. Even the English with there so called Anglo Saxon blood, are mostly Iberian and Basque.
Here is a quote from Stephen Oppenheimer.
“The English still derive most of their current gene pool from the same early Basque source as the Irish, Welsh and Scots.”
Here is a link
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/
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Here’s an interesting article:
“..However, there is one thing that the Romans, modern archaeologists and the Iron Age islanders themselves would all agree on: they were not Celts. This was an invention of the 18th century; the name was not used earlier.
The idea came from the discovery around 1700 that the non-English island tongues relate to that of the ancient continental Gauls, who really were called Celts. This ancient continental ethnic label was applied to the wider family of languages. But ‘Celtic’ was soon extended to describe insular monuments, art, culture and peoples, ancient and modern: island ‘Celtic’ identity was born, like Britishness, in the 18th century.
However, language does not determine ethnicity (that would make the modern islanders ‘Germans’, since they mostly speak English, classified as a Germanic tongue). And anyway, no one knows how or when the languages that we choose to call ‘Celtic’, arrived in the archipelago – they were already long established and had diversified into several tongues, when our evidence begins. Certainly, there is no reason to link the coming of ‘Celtic’ language with any great ‘Celtic invasions’ from Europe during the Iron Age, because there is no hard evidence to suggest there were any.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/peoples_01.shtml
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This story is very old. I read about it in Sociology 101 my first year as a university student. The bigger problem as I see it is that we (United States) absorbed Great Britain’s problem yet no one has given the US it’s due. We are seen as scum of the earth when we travel abroad or GOD forbid live abroad. We as North Americans do not promote our giving history to the world as other countries like Great Britain does in their literature and of course media.
I am not shocked that we as black people are seen as less than white Europeans. We are a visible minority which makes us an easier target for bigotry. If you look at the history of European countries you will see bigotry on an entirely new level because they actively discriminate against white people where there are no blacks or browns.
Thanks for the article it was very interesting.
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“If you look at the history of European countries you will see bigotry on an entirely new level because they actively discriminate against white people where there are no blacks or browns.’
I guess human beings have a pathological need to hate. Skin colour is one obvious reason, but in its absence we will always find other criteria to base our hate upon.
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The sad part is that there are still too many people to this day who assume this pseudo-scientific crap from 1899 to be true.
Even the most homogeneous society will find their n******. There will always be the bullies, the bullied and a large ‘silent majority’ in between. If it’s not through superficial attributes, like physical features or religion, it goes through character traits. The hoodlum bullies going after the quieter, more sensitive souls or the backstabber going after the more upfront etc. Some people are just like pitbulls and others unfortunately can’t help becoming victims. C’est la vie…
I reckon the key to break this vicious circle of hate and counter hate lies in the faceless majority. They are the ones who can make a difference, stand up and say “No more!”
It’s not enough to just ‘not hate’ and stare at the carnage from a safe distance.
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I also think it has to do with the region of the US. Immigration north of the Mason Dixon line was quite different than below and there was very little immigration of Mediterranean people below it. With the one drop rule, someone with olive complexion could be mistaken for Black. New Orleans being the exception. Irish were considered white in the south and Jews didn’t become white until the mid fifties. They may have had a few more privileges, but for the most part they had their own institutions. Some anglicized their name to pass.
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The sad part is that there are still too many people to this day who assume this pseudo-scientific crap from 1899 to be true.
This is unfortunately far too true. Look at how evolution has suddenly become “controversial” in the United States.
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Look at how evolution has suddenly become “controversial” in the United States.
Evolution is controversial in the US?
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Mira
Yes evolution is controversial in the US. Politicians have been trying to get it taken out of textbooks for years. Here is the last major court case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District
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We had one weirdo like that, but it was a huge scandal and she had to resign.
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I saw that picture on wikipedia comparing the heads of Irish to blacks and I couldn’t believe it. To think there are people who think like this.
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“Interesting how it’s all of a sudden become acceptable to talk about how whiteness itself is not a given. 6 months ago, if anyone mentioned that the Irish had not always been considered white, they would have been accused (by Ank first and foremost) of articulating the “Irish were slaves too”, meme.’
That is because it was/is often used as a way to divert attention away from, or minimize, the issues at hand. On this post (and related posts), it is on topic.
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@Natasha
In all fairness, I think I should probably derail this thread with the Arab slave trader argument. (Just joking )
@ J and O’D
I didn’t think it has been conclusively proven that the Irish were of Iberian origins. Did I miss a link with new DNA data? Or am I confusing the whole “Dark Irish/Black Irish” definition with Iberian origins?
@Abagond
Thanks for the post.
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Color
I don’t think anything is 100%, but according to geneticists Stephen Oppenheimer and Brian Sykes, the British as well as the Irish show the closest genetic match to the Basque region as well as northern Iberia. A nation wide study was done a few years ago in both Britain and Ireland. I posted a link when a responded to Mira you should give it a read.
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@Boomer Babe
Interesting that you should point out many Black Americans (as in the “Americas”/New World) have Irish Surnames.
I’ve been trying to find more details statistics on this without any luck. I have found articles and anecdotal incidents that attempt to explain this; however, I have not had much luck. (Moreso with the Carribean/Central America, but not much info on the North American.) – Traditional Catholic names vs. the more common Ulster or Sotch-Irish names.
If anyone has any resources they can cite, I would appreciate it.
In the meantime, here an interesting article discoving the arrival of Irish to the Americas as slaves many years prior to the Potato Famine:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/78714
“Planters then began to breed Irish women with African men to produce more slaves who had lighter skin and brought a higher price. “
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And indeed you would be correct ColorofLuv regarding the origins of the Irish & the Iberians. Just to say I was just quoting what Abagond’s caption stated below
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I also found more “racist caricatures/propaganda” on this university related site:
http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html
Very interesting classroom material with subsequent comments on Irish/Black slave interaction and sexual relations, (sometimes forced between both groups):
“Students will learn that anti-Irish racism and anti-Catholic discrimination have been an inherent part of British colonial rule in Ireland. Students will also examine this racism in the context of racism against other peoples.”
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How the Irish (Americans) Became White:
An excerpt:
An article by a black writer in an 1860 edition of the Liberator explained how the Irish ultimately attained their objectives: “Fifteen or twenty years ago, a Catholic priest in Philadelphia said to the Irish people in that city, ‘You are all poor, and chiefly laborers, the blacks are poor laborers; many of the native whites are laborers; now, if you wish to succeed, you must do everything that they do, no matter how degrading, and do it for less than they can afford to do it for.’ The Irish adopted this plan; they lived on less than the Americans could live upon, and worked for less, and the result is, that nearly all the menial employments are monopolized by the Irish, who now get as good prices as anybody. There were other avenues open to American white men, and though they have suffered much, the chief support of the Irish has come from the places from which we have been crowded.”
Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different. Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation. In fact, one of the primary themes of How the Irish Became White is the way in which left labor historians, such as the highly acclaimed Herbert Gutman, have not paid sufficient attention to the problem of race in the development of the labor movement.
And so, we have the tragic story of how one oppressed “race,” Irish Catholics, learned how to collaborate in the oppression of another “race,” Africans in America, in order to secure their place in the white republic. Becoming white meant losing their greenness, i.e., their Irish cultural heritage and the legacy of oppression and discrimination back home. Imagine if the Irish had remained green after their arrival and formed an alliance with their fellow oppressed co-workers, the free blacks of the North. Imagine if they had chosen to include their black brothers and sisters in the union movement to wage a class battle against the dominant white culture which ruthlessly pitted them against one another.
Oh that there had been other Irish Americans such as the soldiers from St. Patrick’s Battalion who fought on the side of Mexico in the War of 1848, who did remain green and fought against oppression. So perhaps we Irish in America must reclaim our greenness and, perhaps, our anti-racism trainers are right that we all must reclaim our cultural heritage and bring it to the multicultural table.
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@ Col O’ Luv,
‘How the Irish Became White’ is an astonishing book that I doubt would be written today in the same gracious, non-vindictive style. It truly represents an objective lesson in how the US ultimately became a “white man’s country”.
But God works in really weird ways since you now have a Bi-racial President who Irish-Americans are claiming a part of. It’s as if (by virtue of Irish-Catholic history) Black and Irish are used inter-changeably when it comes to the historical oppression Olympics. It was certainly the case over here in London.
Menelik Charles
London England
PS I am a Trinidadian who is 1/8 Irish and a practising Catholic.
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@ Menelik
THANKS! I know what you’re saying. After discovering more about the history of the Irish in the Americas and reading comments from WEB DuBois regarding the subject, I often wonder what would have happened had the Irish & Blacks come together. As a United Political force, who knows??? It is a shame that the two lowest classes in the U.S. were pitted against one another. Ironically, the Irish in Ireland remained oppressed and looked to emulate the Civil Rights struggle in the U.S.
I think for this reason, the U.S Irish who still had/have close ties to their Irish cousins in Ireland feel the oppression and kinship in ‘oppression’ while simultaneously ignoring how they succeeded in the U.S. (by the oppression rather than inclusion of themselves)
There were those Irish Americans who fought with Blacks in the U.S. against oppression, but too many times their voices were silenced into the minority. (albeit not very well documented)
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In London there has been some sort of coming together politically in the fight against racism and discrimination, and also on the interrelationship level as well.
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@ J
right… That was my understanding too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but also why there was a lot more acceptance and interaction in the poorer neighborhoods between the Irish & Caribbean peoples in 60’s, 70’s and on????
Also, for clarification: What I meant to say above is how many of the Irish Americans play the “Oppressed role” and identify with it (via their Irish homeland & cousins) while denying their rise by oppressing their fellow ‘oppressed brothers’ in the U.S. Seems there was an interesting divergence here in how the Irish and American Irish overcame their oppression.
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For those interested: I found an interesting Website dedicated to Irish & African shared roots titled “TANGLED ROOTS”.
Interesting:
http://www.yale.edu/glc/tangledroots/tr08.htm
Five Points
A 19th century working class neighborhood in New York City, where African and Irish Americans lived worked and intermarried. Archaeologists are rediscovering the area and its history.
Seneca Village
A 19th century neighborhood of African, Irish and German Americans. Seneca Village, Harsenville, the Piggery District, and the Convent of the Sisters of Charity were in the area. Archaeologists are uncovering the history of the area.
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Hi Col,
here’s where I get my Irish roots from:
http://www.clannalba.com/topic/1126-the-red-legs-of-barbados-and-tories/
Menelik Charles
London England
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i remember in high school we had to read a short story about Irish Americans and how they and blacks did not get along at all….
I remember in a couple of months back in history class we read about a New York riot during the Civil War and how many Irish immigrants killed blacks because they blamed them for their being forced into war…
I just don’t think I can sympathize with the Irish…I don’t know how I feel about them…I know many Irish in Ireland now seem to be pretty hateful…
I know there is Irish in my blood and all from my mom’s side but not enough for me to care about them.
Besides they sold out their culture for whiteness…which I really can’t blame them for as no one willingly wants to live a troubled life unless there was some kind of gain to be received from it.im
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@Alwaysright101
if you’re going to be hating, it shouldn’t be against the Irish in Ireland. That is why in my comments above I note the irony. In Ireland, the struggles parallel the Civil Rights movement in many regards.
The Irish AMERICANS became white long before their ‘cousins’ in IRELAND did.
Keep in mind as well. There were groups of Irish Americans who helped Black Americans (many instances undocumented and the few that are were done so by the Catholic Church, such as the time a group of Irish who banded together to fend off a ‘southern mob’ intent on burning a school for Free Black Children) In addition, there are the links above demonstrating Irish/Balck living together in the same communities.
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@ Col,
and the thing is, only in very recent years, since the end of ‘the troubles’ have the Irish been accorded a “white” status in Great Britain. Over here, though, it doesn’t always fit right as the Irish are to socio-politically aware, too culturally Catholic, and too damned proud to be Irish i.e. non-elite whites.
Menelik Charles
London England
PS it’s ten to 4 in the afternoon over here!
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@ Menelik
You said, “it doesn’t always fit right as the Irish are to socio-politically aware, too culturally Catholic, and too damned proud to be Irish i.e. non-elite whites.” I can see it. I’m not White, I’m Irish!!! lol Ha… laughing!!!
There are a lot of “White” Latinos (including Brazilians) when caught in the dichotomy of being White -or- NON-White, will always say, “I”m not White, I’m Brazilian.” -LOL
I can see the Irish in the UK doing much the same. .”
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Color O’ the day
Is that a subtle Irish O’ I see in your name now? I just now noticed it.
One thing I wish was written about more, is the Irish that came before the potato famine. All my ancestors came over before the 1800s, and I wish I could find out more about this Irish Exodus. My ancestors were all from Ulster and probably Protestant but they were 100% Irish with Gaelic surnames. This is the group along with the Scotch Irish that settled Appalachia.
Alwaysright seems to be right lol, about the hostility between the Irish and blacks during the civil war. I had a GGGGreat grandfather that fought for the north and wrote some not so nice letters in regards to black people. In one of his letters he wrote that “it is not right that I should risk my life to free the black man,” of course that is the censored version.
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O’Dochartaigh
Yep, had the O’ there in honor, but had some instances where people were not recognizing the name, so I have gone back to the standard. (maybe I’ll tweak it slightly.)
Thanks for sharing. Keep me posted on your Irish search. I have a good share of Scots-Irish as well which settled mainly in the Kentucky area (Pre Potato Famine). I do have other roots that came by way of “Nova Scotia”- (Potato Famine?) – or so the story goes. By the way, my Grandpa was one hell of a dancer – clogger that is.
Happy Friday and Cheers…
By the way, I’ve seen many an “irish afro”. Have you ever seen this? My mother had red hair, but it was a tight coarse fro if she did not relax it/straighten it out. This is another interest of mine, but the resources on the internet suck. (or my ability to locate them do.)
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Thought I’d add this link and bump the thread. “Alex Haley’s other ROOTS” –
“Roger Beebe made a short film which I haven’t seen yet, but the theme, apparently played mostly for laughs, is that black athletes with Irish names are Irish-Americans. He may be more right than he knows. ”
http://web.mac.com/jamesdwithrow/iWeb/Site/Blog/0C7FF890-B6D6-4BB1-82B6-A6273F647B88.html
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Hey I have read about Tamany Hall but i never knew the Irish seemed to wield so much power in the Urban North East United States.as u say here …..
I think u must also realize that the Brits were always scared of the usefulness of the Irish making alliances with the French or Spanish.or even the Dutch or another European Superpower..or even the USA itself….
So for purely defensive reason the Brits need to keep the Irish down to prevent the Likes of Napoleon who even tho he was a greedy land grabbing dictator was a great reformer for the equality of people which the Elite in the UK were also scared of ……
Napoleons heart was in the right place….
Properly enforced civil law is more civiised than the more old fashioned Arcane common law we currently have in Most English speaking nations
the wars with the French were still going on even then and that had been the way for years as the Brits used Ireland as a bread basket to feed their troops in their wars and divide and rule manipulation of the worlds populace….. not alone in France but around the globe..and also possibly to supply food to The East India company or what ever else they had in their World wide regime which effectively controlled half the planet at the time. as there was a power struggle with France and many other large and small rival nations and interested parties….
the reasons for the Irish famine were many and varied ….aside from the Liberal economic model and those in power having old fashioned racist beliefs…like Charles Trevelyan and his ilk who wielded so much poltical power regarding London’s control over Ireland.
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Why not celebrate the fact that the Irish raised themselves up (without affirmative action or welfare) instead of condemning them for it?
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The Irish should all be deported for their crappy cuisine…if you can call that crap cooking. Also, all Irishmen suffering from the Irish Man’s curse should be deported also! Good day.
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You’re worse than the KKK
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Oh did she upset you? Interesting seeing as she only displayed to you the level of ignorance that you regularly display on this board. I would say she did it quite nicely seeing as you can dish it but you fail to take it.
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Don’t insult the Irish. We are the greatest people ever. We are the most evolved form of humans
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Is that before or after a quart of liquor. Oh and thanks for the compliment boyo.
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We aren’t drunk.
At least we don’t practice genital mutilation like savage blacks did.
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@ Bobby M
Are White Americans savages too? They practise genital mutilation: circumcision.
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Circumcision is a barbaric practice, but fortunately it is on it’s way out. I am involved in many anti circumcision movements, and would never circumcise my son. You should do a post on how barbaric circumcision is.
It is honestly worse than rape, in that rape does not permanently remove an important body part.
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@ Bobby M
Oh please. The Irish are notorious for benefiting from affirmative action. Right in the post I said:
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I’m Irish and I’ve never benefited from affirmative action.
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@Bobby M
So now you are Irish? Why don’t you ask a true Irish man what he thinks of your 3/4.
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Well you blacks consider 1/2 black Obama to be a true black…
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aye laddie!
wow it always p*ed me off when my dad said that to me.
As I’ve said before, on of the things I’ve learned here, is that I’m mostly Irish, but not Irish, but I identify as Irish!
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My wife was Irish and she often commented about my Jewish background (and circumcized penis), that many Irish and Spanish are still “circumcized” (but not in the Hebrew way, like I was), as my former wife believed the Irish and Spanish are descendants of ‘Merovignian’ Jewish settlers, during the Roman times, who already adopted Catholicism and considered their “circumcision” (usually a partial style, leaving some skin behind, unlike in America where it is a “full-cut”, especially among us Jews) as a ‘second baptism’ and due to in-breeding, among the provinces, many Irish and Spanish males have “issues” with their foreskins anyway, usually requiring “corrective” circumcisions . And also my Irish wife, was a nurse, so she knew what she was talking about. She believed too, she was Jewish descent and pointed out many so-called Irish and Spanish names are “Hebrew” in origin (eg- like Fox, Hart, Gorman, McQueen, McCain, Caine, Kidman, King, Kennedy,Moran,Barry,Wilson ,Newton etc among the Irish and with the Spanish names like- Lopez, Mendoza, Blanco, Gomez, Gonzalez, Da Costa, Cardozo, Prado, Puente, Perez, Pinzon, Montez, Torres etc etc)
Other readers are welcome to add any more information they have researched. The Phonecians were also influential in Ireland and Spain. My ex-wife claimed, the Irish family name O’Brien, was derived from an old Phonecian King who ruled Ireland and Northern Spain. The Phonecians and Hebrews have historically been allies, against non-Semetic peoples (like Greeks , Romans and Anglos etc) . Modern day Armenia are the descendants of the ancient Phonecians and Cathargians who once ruled Ireland and Spain.My ex-wife pointed out many Phonecians also practiced circumcision and the original “Babylonian” or “Biblical” circumcision, was not “tight” or “full-cut” as in the Jewish Community today (and 80% of American males). The styles in Spain and the Irish, were more like the ancient “biblical” style, which was forced to change as Jews and Phonecians tried to “pass” themselves off as Romans and Greeks, by stretching their foreskins, during the Grecian nude Olympics, that many Babylonian Semetic people (like the Hebrews & Phonecians) took part in. As a descendant of Babylonian Hebrews (and Turkic Tatars), I am convinced that many Irish (and notably Spaniards) share Mediterranean “Semetic” genes with us and culturally and historically have more in common with us, than say “Anglo-Saxons”. Feel free to add anything, else. Also the Irish family name, “Daley” is also believed to be of North African origins, and also appears as “Dali” in Spain (yes that eccentric artist) and “Al Dahli” in Morrocco. And what about the Irish family name “Moore”- it’s obvious! It means “Moorish” as well as the boy’s name “Maurice”, also a popular boy’s name in Ireland and Spain(Mauricio)=means- ‘Moorish’.
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Fascinating discussion, I have only read some of the comments, but see that this has not been added yet. Just read this about a week ago. Irish genomes and the like….
http://phys.org/news/2015-12-ancient-irish-human-genomes-sequenced.html
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Also, some cool maps and images can be found if you search “Neolithic DNA Irish Celtic Anglo Saxon”.
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“I am currently working on a series of posts about being Irish (Irish-American) in New England. ”
Yawn …. I should make mental note to self that on a subconscious level I come to Abagond’s site to learn about all things Irish!
……zzzzzzzzzzzz…….
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Well I’ll never!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Cool idea!
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@ Fan
He is a frequent enough commenter that I am not going to count it as spam. Also, he did it on a thread of related interest.
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Abagond,
I’m not referring to spam (right now).
So, calling a comment’s author an “asshole” IS within your policy’s guidelines?? https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/irish-americans/#comment-332959
Just asking so that I can respond within your parameters.
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@ Fan @ Lord of Mirkwood
I deleted comments where you used “idiot” and “asshole” as an insult. “Asshole” is now a moderated word.
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Eh… It’s usually the american flag on top, with that black pow-mia one underneath.
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