This is the thread where you can never be off topic! Well, almost never. The rest of the Comment Policy applies, though.
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New Open Thread…
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@ All
If there are certain threads that are too long to be usable on your computer, please let me know.
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Irrational fear of an ethnic/religious minority and the impending boogeymanization of them returns in Germany
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/thousands-march-in-germany-anti-islamization-protests/ar-BBgRXHN?ocid=ansIntBusinessTimes11
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I just saw a video on facebook where a cops arrest three black 12 year old teens for pushing a white kid. The lady can be heard in the video arguing with another lady who says “you should go video tape the victim.” Needless to say the “victim” told the cops it was not them that pushed him. Yet the cops still arrested these young men and one cop can be seen in the video punching one of the boys in the back. Several people attempted to step in and one black lady was pushed by the cops. One lady who was a lawyer asked for the badges. I will post video soon as I can figure out how to get it off facebook.
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This post was beyond on point about the string of “good” cop videos.
http://madamenoire.com/496641/problem-feel-good-cop-viral-videos/
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I just have to say:
I am soo enjoying watching the Miami Cubans just “squirm” about the possibility of the Cuban embargo ending. I am enjoying their anger (even though many younger Cubans I know are happy)
The US government does business with China, an actively communist country with disgraceful human rights abuses
but yet, the US government even managed to get itself Indebted to China, an actively communist country with a bad human rights record.
I so sick of the Miami Cubans acting like for the last 30 years, the Cubans who came to America were not seeking financial relief, just like everyone else from Central America or the Caribbean.
The preferential treatment Cubans receive in the US is beyond ridiculous.
They are one of the only illegal immigrants who get Immediate green cards once their foot touches US soil.
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@linda, funny you should mention the special treatment of Cuban immigrants. And the timing with the recent immigration policy discussions is interesting. Maybe someone is playing mental chess again.
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The recent move vis-a-vis Cuba and POTUS’s other moves on immigration reform took the wind out of Ted Cruz’s and Jeb Bush’s political sails. It’s gonna be fun watching them scramble to regroup.
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My godmother lives in Tarpon Springs, FL. I will have to ask her what she heard people saying about the police homicide there.
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http://thegrio.com/2014/12/22/christopher-manney-dontre-hamilton/
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I’m worried about what the recent developments between US-Cuba relations means for Assata Shakur. This IS White Supremacy now, and considering how the white media is trying to garner sympathy for the two NY officers who just got killed some of the good ol’ boys are probably geared up to go after anyone else with a similar record. Not comparing her to him but you saw they came back after OJ Simspon nearly 20 years later, they tend not to leave any stone unturned and they NEVER forget if someone got over on them.
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Can any other blacks whom are in or were in Corporate America give me tips on coping in White Corporate America? (Why there are no black corporations or black businesses that can hire blacks? I don’t know!!!) but for now I’m in corporate America in a team where I’m the only black female but there are several black males. The black males are almost forbidden to be friendly with me. When there was another black woman there, there was a vibe as if they didn’t want her to be friendly with me either. The black males are almost encouraged to talk and be friendly with each other & with the other races.The white males keep giving off that vibe as if they wish I felt like sh#t and sat around feeling unwanted, lowly, and the like.
Am I too into my feelings? Sometimes I feel maligned work-wise as well and when we’re in a group there’s a vibe that they want me as the black female to be and feel maligned.
How do I deal with this on the job? How do I stay out of my feelings? I’m there to work but I’m also a human being, I desperately need advice!
help!
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You too Pumpkin/Peanut!!! Happy Holidays to you and yours as well!
re:
Happy holidays everyone. 🙂
– peanut
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@Alicia
I have no experience in corporate America, but I have a female black friend who does work in it. I will reach out to her and see if she has some tips.
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FYI my friend started her own business and is only working st her job until her own endeavors jump off. I can recommend doing the same.
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@ Pumpkin
Happy holidays!
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thanks Sharina. I hope to be able to some day go into business for myself or atleast be able to get out of the corporate american environment or any environment where there is hate. For right now, I have to work hard to not get into my feelings because I am human and am there 8+ hrs per day. I need tips on doing this though because some days it’s hard to deal with.
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I thought it was a gracious gesture for Eric Garner’s daughter Emerald to pay her respects at the NYPD memorial of the slain officers, she even said that she wasn’t anti-police, that some of her family was law enforcement. She simply and eloquently stated that the gunman was just a mentally ill man who had nothing to do with the protest for justice. She said she wanted to pay her respects to the slain officers families. I can’t help but respect that young sister.
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Possible good news for sista Assata
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cuba-says-it-has-a-right-to-grant-asylum-to-us-fugitives/ar-BBh7rfM?ocid=ansnewsap11
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@Abagond: Happy Holidays
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Happy Holidays to all the commenters
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Wow.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mainstream-media-caught-airing-fake-kill-cop-protest-chant/
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Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it. Happy holidays to those who don’t but who still get time off. To those who don’t get a break, you should and I wish you some relief.
To all, love and a happy, peaceful and just New Year.
I resolve to do what little I can to mitigate the sh*tstorm. Probably ain’t going to help a lot. 😦
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Happy Holidays folks!!!! Yeah! Yeah!
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@Jefe: Seasons Greetings
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@Kiwi: Seasons Greetings
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@Sharina: Seasons Greetings
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@Just me and Mary
Sorry I did not check open thread sooner. Thank you both very much. The same to you as well.
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@Alicia
I haven’t heard back from my friend, but my advice is to do you. Meditate and remove the negative. Certain white males get off on hoping you will feel bad just because they say you should. You have to break those chains.
It is a mental game you can not let them win. If your mind is not sharp then it can break down everything. They know this. It is psychological warfare. If you want to talk with a black male to work then talk with him. Ignore the vibe.
Work to the best of your ability until your business takes off.
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@Bud Dhuu
Thanks!
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10 years since the great Indian Ocean Boxing Day tsunami!
I know someone who perished that day. You are not forgotten!
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I used to be recommended this web site via my cousin. I am
no longer certain whether or not this publish is written by him as nobody
else realize such detailed approximately my problem.
You’re wonderful! Thanks!
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Happy New Year to all my fellow Abagonders, Abagondans, Abagondese. etc. Heck, whatever we’re called on here. HAVE A HAPPY 2015!!!!
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It is already 2015 where I am. 😛
India, Middle East, Africa, Europe and the Americas — Happy New Year to you too.
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Happy New Year everyone! !! Many blessings!!!
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Happy New Year, everyone. Best wishes to all.
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Happy New Year to everyone may we all live more prosperous and healthy and joyful
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Happy New Years everyone!!!
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I wish Abagond would do a post on “how to have a debate” what is a straw man?
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I will just make google my friend and find out for myself.
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@Mary
I think he plans on doing one.
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Still suffering from a hangover from last night? Here’s something to induce vomiting up that excess liquor!:
http://www.alternet.org/food/be-very-afraid-10-scariest-fast-food-creations-2014?akid=12641.1929437.C25GlM&rd=1&src=newsletter1029598&t=6
Happy New Years!!!!!!!
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@MB
@Sharina
Yeah, it is on the “promised” list. but so are dozens of other topics. He only seems to whittle that list down about once per month, so maybe we will see those posts several years down the road.
Also, there are several dozen common logic fallacies. If he does a post on each, then that could take an entire month purely on that topic.
In the meantime, we have derailing for dummies and ad hominem.
About derailing:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/derailing-for-dummies/
About ad hominem
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/ad-hominem-argument/
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More:
“The Fig Leaf” argument
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/the-fig-leaf-argument/
“The seven levels of disagreement”
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/07/26/the-seven-levels-of-disagreement/
But this is not about logical fallacies, but about how to disagree with someone.
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Yeah, the more I think of it, it would be nice to see Abagond consider rearranging his priorities, ie,
How about spending 1/4 of the effort each as follows:
– on his pet topics, or something that just popped up on its own (like the current post)
– on current topical issues or events (eg, that occurred in the last week or two)
– on themes (eg, Heritage / History months)
– on his promised list
Every now and then (maybe once every 3-4 months) have a topic discussing his own biases, eg, re: sexism and the Catholic religion, among others that people point out to him.
His “promised” list is only getting longer. It will never be whittled down unless more emphasis is put on it.
Also, want to know if we will have Black History month, White History month, Asian Pacific Islander Heritage month, Hispanic Heritage Month and Native American Heritage month again in 2015.
Black History month starts in only 4 weeks. We need to start on it now.
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@ Jefe
I agree. Unless I do at least one a week, no meaningful, steady progress will be made on it. It will become a de facto junkyard.
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36 people died in the New Year’s eve stampede in Shanghai and dozens more are still in the hospital, some 13 are very critical.
The news here said that several hundred thousand attend Times Square in New York City on New Year’s eve every year and they have never experienced a deadly stampede.
Hong Kong had a deadly stampede in 1993 for New Year’s eve.
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@Jefe: I did read about the stampede in Hong Kong and the Asian airliner that crashed and the recovering of the dead and watching the grief stricken families. Very heartbreaking.
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@Jefe: I saw in the google news the Shanghai on New Year’s Eve, very tragic.
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Here’s the story of a black man so traumatized by racism in his home country that he finds overt racism overseas to be “refreshing” and “honest”: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/a-cop-in-ukraine-said-he-was-detaining-me-because-i-was-black-i-appreciated-it/
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@ Black Santa
I’ve always agreed with his sentiment. At least Russia & Eastern Europe openly state “fu*k Blacks, Jews, Muslims, Asians, Ethnic minorities & Gays” without pause or hesitation. America just creates policies & institutions to see to it that just that happens while feigning ignorance due to the power of deniability said systems give them when pressed about the subject of discrimination. I’ll take a known enemy over a fake friend any day, at least I know where NOT to go.
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Mia Love decides to start out strong with her first public display of coonery.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2015/01/rep-elect-mia-love-steve-scalise-should-stay-house-whip-despite-klan-controversy/
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@A
I could not do anything more than SMDH (While thinking is she stupid?)
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@ Sharina
She’s not stupid, on the contrary very smart. She just ensured job security & high rankings within the RepubliKKKan Party. She’ll always be well paid and have a chance to speak as their token negro due to the fact that she gives off the impression of lending credibility to the lie that Repubs aren’t racist. What she is is narcissistic and selfish but this is true of all coons by definition.
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@A; That is the truth, and i was reading you post on Gangster Rap: Very eloquent and astute commentary. You are very sharp.
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@ Mary. Thank you
@ Kiwi, great find.
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@A
I can’t argue with that. You definitely speak the truth.
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I second that. Great find Kiwi!
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@ A and black santa
I am torn on how I would respond to blunt racism. As I read the article I was thinking “How can he accept that?” and “how does he deal with that?” I guess the benefits are you know what to expect, but wow.
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@Mack Lyons / Black Ex-Santa Claus,
Thank you for sharing that article.
I would like to see a good discussion not only on the common topic of the general African diaspora outside Africa, but also on the topic of the African-American diaspora outside the USA. I read about some experience of African-Americans in China (v. white Americans, Asian Americans and Africans and black Chinese) as well as in Japan and Korea, but there has been no major discussion on this blog about the experience of African-Americans outside the USA.
I made a suggestion on Black History month for that.
Sometimes that experience can bring a perspective on the US experience.
The USA used to have blunt racism. It was still common until the late 1960s. But from the late 1960s- mid 1980s people, in an effort to circumvent Affirmative action while building a white political base, scrambled to find ways to be racist without being overtly so. If they must mention it, they use code words, eg, inner city, minorities, people with entitlement mentality, people of a different culture, etc. Everything but racial words. Such a revolution in speech did not happen overseas.
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@ Jefe
As far as Blacks in East Asia is concerned, nonsense like this seems to be standard over there.
http://newsone.com/1908255/k-pop-artists-blackface/
Blackface, using the N-word on prime television due to differing censorship standards & lack of exposure to Blacks has seemingly led to an ignorance of what we are.
I’ve heard of stories of people not being allowed into certain restaurants & bars due to being black. The 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing had this issue, certain athletes were complaining of not being allowed entry into certain places & in some cases “No blacks allowe” signs altogether. In Japanese Anime Black characters are frequently drawn with Blackface like features like Mr PoPo from Dragon Ball Z
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mr+popo+racist&qs=IA&form=QBIR&pq=mr+popo+ra&sc=8-10&sp=1&sk=#view=detail&id=407D766F071911DA3A3DF301D7A6745C86868F68&selectedIndex=4
I watched this show as a child thinking that due to the science-fantasy setting of it he was some sort of alien or magical creature but it turns out he was meant to be a human black man, yeah I still can’t believe it myself. I read an article on a gaming website years ago that did a series review once the show had ended which pointed out the antiquated presentation of Blacks in Anime that lasted until the mid-90’s.
After reading this I started to reconsider the trip to Japan I had always wanted to take. I doubt it’s as bad as being called the N-word openly in the streets but I’d be lying if I told you this discovery of the way SOME East Asians view Blacks didn’t make me have 2nd thoughts about traveling to that part of the world.
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@ Sharina
Maybe you’re correct. I guess I just get worked up at how hypocritical & fake Western societies with their colorblind nonsense are. I won’t take credit for the argument I heard it from a late comedian Patrice O’Neal. He made the case that in pre-Civil Rights America when everything was segregated it was easy to prove a business was practicing discrimination due to “no blacks allowed” signs & such. He went on to say that when a Black person goes into an establishment where they get poor service the feeling is still obviously “no blacks allowed” but now its nearly impossible to prove since their is no sign hanging in the window saying it.
It’s for reasons like this why I sometimes believe this form of oppression is far more potent than the previous one. When a married black couple don’t get the loan for a house yet the white married couple with worse credit does the bank doesn’t have to tell you why. When black boys get kicked out of class, suspended, railroaded into special ed, misdiagnosed with ADD & placed on psychotropic drugs that are dangerous for young underdeveloped minds for doing things that every other kid in class is doing, the school doesn’t have to explain why. When cops shoot black youth in the street at disproportionate rates the cops only need the company line of “I was in fear for my life” as justification.
I may have gotten a little ahead of myself and I meant no disrespect to elders who were blasted with fire hoses and had dogs sicked on them. I have no clue what that type of oppression is like, but this model of society is a step sideways more so than a step forward. It’s more of a giant smokescreen like the Matrix than the reality of openly racist countries like some in Eastern Europe & other parts of the world. If any of these countries evolve from their current model of bigotry it will only be to one like America has and thus the Blacks and other POC will be stuck in the same rut we are now.
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@A,
I wouldn’t boycott a whole continent or 60% of the world just based on some anecdotal experiences. Admittedly, some experiences may be uncomfortable, or downright discriminatory, but by and large, I don’t think they are necessarily worse than what many Middle-Easterners (and even what some East / SE Asians) experience on almost a daily basis in the USA (or what they might encounter if they travel to Europe or South America). Navigating as a black person in the USA might even be more complicated and oppressive, although most black Americans have decades of experience doing that, so that know what to expect. The best way is to be psychologically prepared for the situation and maybe communicate first with other African-Americans currently or formerly living and traveling overseas.
Actually, in my opinion, it would be better if more black Americans did travel or even live overseas and give others the chance to be exposed to them more. So don’t give up your opportunity to go to Japan.
And we shouldn’t just focus on East Asia, but the rest of the world too, including Africa. Black Americans probably have experiences that are unique to being both black and American when they are outside the USA.
I am also interested in learning more about the experience of black Americans encountering both black and non-black Americans outside the USA. Do they segregate socially with Americans in general, or with people of black African descent?
I was thinking about drafting a guest post on Darkie (Darlie) toothpaste, a very popular brand name in many Asian countries.
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@ Jefe
“I wouldn’t boycott a whole continent or 60% of the world just based on some anecdotal experiences”
Oh no I apologize, I was only referencing some East Asian countries of which I had doubts about traveling to. I grew up around Southeast Asians & learned a lot about their cultures & as such, trips to Thailand & Cambodia at the very least are a definite for me. As far as the Middle East is concerned I don’t know enough to speak on it one way or another other than to say I do want to go one day. The only thing that stood out was that many of the tourist-y places are a bit pricey, other than that I have no worries. South Asia I’ve never truly thought about or desired to go but If I did I’d be a bit worried due to possible issues based on the regions own history of colorism. Like you stated I would definitely speak to other Blacks about their experiences before going.
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Go and See Japan for yourself. Do you speak or understand some Japanese? That would make it easier.
And if you are really interested, you might find it interesting to learn about the Blasian experience in Asia. If many ways, their situation is more problematic than for non-Asian blacks.
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I am watching television and it’s reported George Zimmerman has been arrested for aggravated assault. it’s only a matter of time before he kills again.
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George Zimmerman gets arrested for throwing wine bottle at his girlfriend. He is a violent mofo.
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Mary Burell………..”George Zimmerman gets arrested for throwing wine bottle at his girlfriend. He is a violent mofo.”
The TRUTH about how screwed and racist the judicial system is always comes out afterwards. However the assholes that were soooo sure they were right are long gone and it’s too late for justice and frankly most of them just don’t give a shit.
In the last 4 years over 1,300 men have been exonerated and released from prison after the DNA came back negative. Only 1% of these DNA cases are heard, can you imagine how many other people are innocent in prison?
In each case the COPS and the PROSECUTOR were absolutely positive they had the right person, they had all this made up or circumstantial “evidence” and in every case it was all BULLSHIT and men lost thousands of years of their lives, missed their kids growing up, lost everything they had, etc…
On the other side of this broken system you have prosecutors and jury’s that BLOW cases like Zimmerman, that and racist laws and jurors. It’s all still a very racist country we live in, believe me I here it all the time when I am around just white people…..
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@William Conqueror: Exactly, all you said is true.
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It is hard to know the correct way to react to this.
American comedy loves to poke fun at its own leaders as well as foreign leaders. Given the recent Sony Hack, we “knew” this would be coming.
But if it was to be done, how could it be done without being offensive to many?
One thing is for sure, had this been 40 years ago, it would have been done in Yellowface.
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What happened in Paris is horrific but there are 2,000 people dead in Nigeria. The mainstream media and the dominant society is very selective in it’s outrage. Boko Haram is very evil. And the President Good Luck John is ineffective.
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Mary Burrell
George Zimmerman gets arrested for throwing wine bottle at his girlfriend. He is a violent mofo.
———————————————————————
With tons of women lined up to sleep with him.
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@Kiwi,
It is difficult to determine a straightforward answer to this.
For example:
Is Cho mocking Asians or Kim Jong Un? Was her heavy make-up a hark back to the Yellowface era?
There may be a difference, as Americans (as well as some other cultures) like to mock world leaders, and those world leaders will have different looks, ethnic background and idiosyncrasies. How would an actor do a spoof on Putin or Merkel or Xi Jinping?
I know you don’t remember when Saturday Night Live first came out in the 70s when Chevy Chase impersonated Gerald Ford and he kept on falling all over the stage. They have impersonated every President since then. When Obama became president, not all his impersonators were black or biracial. Fred Armisen is White/Japanese / Latino background. Maybe being multiracial/mutiethnic actor is better to portray Obama than a black man (I don’t find Jay Pharoah’s portrayal of him necessarily more acceptable).. Indonesia has its own man who does Obama impersonations. In addition to Obama, Armisen was recruited to portray various types of “foreigners”.
Kim Jong Un would be a likely target now for spoofing given the recent incident with “The Interview”. But if a spoof is done on him, who would do it? An Asian, or white in Yellowface? A man or woman? Which stereotypes are they allowed to use? If Cho is off base here, is Randall Park also off base by portraying him in the film? Was that offensive?
Certainly, if they use a white person in yellowface, that would have been even more offensive.
There is a difference of course. Americans will not confuse Angela Merkel with all middle-aged white ladies, but they will apply the stereotypes applied to a single Asian to all other Asians. So, even if the spoof is supposed to be on an individual, it might be applied to Asians in general. Given American’s “Perpetual Foreigner” schtick towards Asians, it is difficult to pull it off right.
Is the answer NOT to spoof Asian world leaders at risk of being offensive to Asians in general?
I have never seen any spoof of China leaders since Mao. / Zhou En Lai. Is the USA afraid to offend China? Have there been spoofs on Xi Jinping (with an actor portraying him)?
I can feel quite sure the lack of Xi Jinping spoofs might be more attributed to the desire not to offend China. They could care less about offending Asian Americans.
Finally, almost anything on American TV is geared for a white audience. That goes without saying.
Have you ever watched Asian movies or TV where they have an Asian portray a white person (ie, westerner or American)? China has several actors that often portray white people. But given the larger numbers of white people in China now who can also speak Mandarin, it is not as prevalent as it was 20 years ago.
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@Kiwi: But the Margaret Cho gag fell flat i don’t think they thought it was funny. I personally don’t care for her brand of humor.
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Tina Fey and Amy Poehler went there at the Golden Globes trying to roast Bill Cosby and the rape allegations i can’t believe they tried it. That was an awkward moment. For women who have been victims of rape i am sure they didn’t appreciate this. I was surprised there was no back lash.
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This site is absolutely superb. Thank you very much, Abagond and many others. The level of debate is often extremely high, and I am learning loads. I’m a Brit who thought I knew a lot more than I actually do. Cheers everyone!
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Pimp Hard Abagond, Pimp Hard!!!!
Guide # 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_savior_narrative_in_film
Sorry, been reading Whoreson , and some other stiff by Donald Goines.
Pimp Hard!
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@Kiwi,
Only for the past 20 years.
From the 50s-80s, it was common for Chinese cinema to use whiteface, ie, chinese actors in make-up to play whites in their movies.
You would probably find it funny to watch a chinese movie with a chinese playing a white person speaking fluent Mandarin but does not know how to use chopsticks.
This article gives a summary.
(http://asiaobscura.com/2011/11/prosthetic-noses-red-wigs-and-whiteface-american-characters-in-chinese-films.html)
Hong Kong had no shortage of white people, but most could not speak Cantonese or Mandarin, so they would appear in films, but have their voices dubbed so that audiences could understand.
HK also had some films and TV in the 70s-90s which had Eurasians play white people. They used make-up to make them look more “western”, but most of them could speak fluent Cantonese.
I think it also occurred in Taiwan. I don’t remember seeing whites speaking Mandarin in Taiwanese movies until about the 90s also.
Nowadays, there is no shortage of white people who speak Mandarin and can appear in Chinese TV and flims. Even in HK, there are enough stock Cantonese speaking white faces that to appear in roles. Anyhow, HK cinema has dwindled greatly in the past 20 years and the British have left. There is probably less demand for white faces in films compared to the 1980s.
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@ Kiwi
I finally got the courage to try to approach the black girl that I thought was really pretty when she was alone. But the craziest thing happened. Before I could even get close, another guy who was obviously her boyfriend came up to her. As it turned out, the guy was Asian. I expected to feel happy to see that but all it did was make me jealous.
Ha! Look at you! Nice!
Well the cool thing is, is that you know you were gonna approach her for real, that’s good sh!t. And the way her man emerged was just the fates keeping you from losing face. 🙂
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Short story Drama in my life from today.
I lost $80 today! Eighty fuK&ng dollars. I wanted to jump from the tallest building. I felt so goddamn stupid. How do you lose $80!? I cursed myself mercilessly, really hardcore self talk.
I get home and realize the money is in a jacket pocket of a jacket I don’t often wear, right now. Aaahh, such relief. Losing $80 dollars isn’t something you can easily excuse in yourself; it makes you call your competence and intelligence into question. It can also reveal just how hardcore your self interest can be.
This is how badly I wanted the money back:
I would have boned Paula Deen to get my money back, I’m serious! And she’s evil and stupid! I would have boned her passionately!!!! 😀
Fortunately, like I say, I found my money, but now have discovered this other facet of my, um, character!?
Oh well, as effed up as I am, I’ll bet you guys still love me more than thwack! HA!
Happy New Year everyone.*
——————-
* Not thwack or TrojanPam, of course, but everyone else. (I’m so petty, hey!? 😀 )
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@kiwi,
I have seen another one on a similar topic a few years back.
If you scroll down, this blogger also includes some links to other current blogs which discuss similar issues.
Obviously, this kind of angst is very real, and not unique to this individual. As I said before, many years back, since 2002, I was active on some Eurasian / Hapa discussion groups, and Eurasian / Hapas definitely have issues that are beyond the grasp of their monoracially identified parents and other relatives.
This also supports that idea that I believe Elliott Rodger had issues that were related to his parents’ pairing and subsequent divorce and how he figured into all that.
This particular blogger, like the one I read a few years ago, seems to think that children of Asian female / white male pairings, esp. sons, are much more screwed up than the children of Asian male / white female pairings. I am not really sure about that, as when I was growing up I used to think it was the other way around, but I can attest that there are some major differences between the 2 sets of pairings. That shows that the differences are not really racial (as it may not be possible to detect on eyesight who is the child of an AM/WF and WM/AF pairing), but there are different social experiences that vary according to the racial identity of the parents.
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@ Kiwi
Creepy? Not at all. Vulnerable and honest, that’s all. Something to be done with great discretion on a blog, I think you did well.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/01/21/cops-kill-black-man-with-hands-up.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAfternoon
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http://www.alternet.org/belief/shocking-number-americans-under-30-have-no-religion-country-going-change
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the fix is always in… Ms Colombia was average and boring, even Ukraine was better than her.
Ms. Jamaica, Kaci Fennell, got robbed. Her look was refreshing
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/01/kaci-fennell-miss-jamaica-miss-universe/
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@Herneith
I could only smh. The sad part is that my initial thought was “what else is new”. Though it was a bit obvious that officer Days intent was to shoot and kill if the guy breathed funny.
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@Legion
Thanks for posting that. The subject matter keeps coming up and I guess I should address it on my own sense. From my own viewpoint I see religion as restrictive and as such I have been personally pulling away. Mormon’s have a particularly large amount of restrictions that make it a bit difficult to stick to. Such restrictions bring about stress. Of all the Mormons I have met or who are in my daily life they have some type of emotional and mental disorders they deal with. Depression and anxiety being the highest.
I will elaborate more some other time, but in all I feel religion causes stress and that may be the reason why others are choosing to do without it. I seem to be less stressed on weeks I know I will not be going to church.
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@ Sharina
You’re a Mormon? I don’t want to operate from the standpoint of stereotypes but wasn’t that the religion that wouldn’t allow Black people in until the 1970’s? If so I could easily see how someone could be stressed about their doctrines as you stated.
As far as the larger topic of lack of religion is concerned I can personally attest, only 1 of my friends actually believes in God & only a few in my larger circle. The rest are more so hippy-like agnostic than full on atheists. They have a “whatever” attitude toward the idea of religion & over the years I have started to as well. It’s not that I don’t believe in God but most organized religions IMO are tiny boxes that very few people can fit into mostly due to the fact that they’re more so antiquated time capsules than philosophies that fit into the modern world.
Ever since I was a child it bothered me that the people in church who “talked that talk” so to speak would act a fool Monday through Saturday, then were supposedly down with the lord on Sunday, WTF? There were too many things in the Bible I fundamentally disagreed with that made it impossible to call myself a Christian. Slavery? Women in 2nd place? Black people cursed Sons of Ham? No disrespect to anyone’s beliefs but I simply can’t do it. If there is a creator who will judge me after I pass I just hope that he/she/they/it would look at my life as a whole & realize I lived it respectfully even if I didn’t devote myself to one specific doctrine.
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@A
Yes and Yes. You actually just read my mind. I have felt that way my entire life when it comes to organized religion, but I also feel that people manipulate the meaning of much of the scripture to mean something it does not. Particularly the “Black people cursed Sons of Ham” part.
From my understanding blacks were expected to always have the priesthood. They did under the prophet Joseph Smith. When he did Brigham young took over and it was under his presidency that he removed the rights of blacks to hold the priesthood. It was also a point where the church branched off as well. A lot of people think the church remained intact, but it broke into the good ole polygamy groups and the group that followed Joseph Smith’s father as his father believed the prophet should remain within family lines.
Here is a link to learn more if you are interested: http://www.blacklds.org/history
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Linda,
Do you know Kaci Fennell’s ethnic background? At first guess I would think some Black / White / Asian (Indian and/or Chinese) combination.
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“Jefe,
Do you know Kaci Fennell’s ethnic background? At first guess I would think some Black / White / Asian (Indian and/or Chinese) combination.”
Linda says,
French, Indian, English and African
both her parents are mixed
I know her father’s father, Michael Fennell, comes from an old “white Jamaican” family, meaning they got 1 black grandma in the closet from back in the day; the father’s mother comes from a mixed race family
picture of grandpa Michael (he is the president of the Jamaican Olympic Association, former president of Air Jamaica.)
http://www.supersport.com/commonwealth/cg-2010/news/101007/Ugandan_officials_injured_in_accident
There was a rumour that her mother was Filipina, but she came out and denied it.
Here is an article:
http://pinoyambisyoso.com/lifestyle/miss-jamaica-kaci-fennell-half-filipina/
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jefe,
here’s an article showing Kaci’s mothers parents
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/01/27/15/miss-jamaica-half-pinay
Kaci’s mother carries the French, so I guess the Indian comes from her father’s side somewhere.
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Thanks Linda,
I suspect her grandparents (at least some of them) were already multi-racial, and she is only selecting certain ethnic to represent herself, which is normal. In any case, she lends credence to the ethnic mosaic that is Jamaica, a place that one might get the impression tends to emphasize its African roots.
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Miss. Jamaica was ROBBED! That’s all I have to say about it.
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Everyone enjoy your superbowl sunday and may everyone’s favorite team win
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“Jefe,
In any case, she lends credence to the ethnic mosaic that is Jamaica, a place that one might get the impression tends to emphasize its African roots.”
Linda says,
Yes, but unfortunately, in Jamaica itself, the mixed-race beauty queens catch a lot of grief.
When Kaci won the title, there was a big controversy about the fact that she was light skin/ mixed and many people were saying they wanted a dark-skin/black girl to represent Jamaica.
sample of the what the usual critics have to say:
“Not to diminish the beauty of those ladies, but where are cocoa (dark/brown) coloured Jamaican girls? The organizers should think about renaming the pageant to “Miss White Jamaica Universe” The irony is, most of the judges are probably Black (if i’m not mistaken. Honestly, I find darker skinned toned girls are more glamourous to look at.”
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/entertainment/Kaci-Fennell-is-Miss-Universe-Jamaica-2014
She even appeared on a local tv show to defend herself.
She herself never discussed her actual race/ethnicity until the international news media started saying she was half-Filipina., so she felt compelled to discuss it.
Only now that she came close to winning, will you here those same Jamaicans who complained about her complexion, claim Kaci and defend her.
The same thing happened with Ms. Jamaica World, Laurie Ann Chin–backlash because she is mixed with Chinese
“Chinese again? I’m going to rename Jamaica Little China. American Idol (sic) winner Tess, Goat Island and now Ms. Jamaica?”
“What happen to Jamaica black girl, they not good enough why the mixed breed?”
http://dimitrilyon.com/2014/07/15/miss-jamaica-world-stirs-racial-debate/
People try to deny it but in Jamaica, the colourism is real and goes both ways.
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Leigh,
yes she was 🙂
what surprised me was the fact that so many Filipinos supported her — even before they thought she was half-Pinay. That was nice to see.
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^^^That guy can not be serious right?
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@ Kiwi
in that case I can successfully say…it sounds like he is the insecure one. As to the wife she has some self hating issues if she would even make a comment in regards to her kid having a small penis. The two of them together will have that kid dealing with a lot of issues.
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@ A
White hegemony is a poison that’s polluted the entire world. Not saying that these groups don’t already have their own home-grown views about those darker than themselves, but the white European/American agitprop has done few favors.
Nevertheless, you shouldn’t let that fear stop you from traveling. At the end of the day, people are people and you’ll invariably find those who are surprisingly more receptive to you throughout your journey.
Jim Crow segregation was much more straightforward in that regard. At least you knew precisely where you weren’t welcome and where people stood, because it was right there, plain as day.
Nowadays, it’s more passive-aggressive, because outright discrimination isn’t just passé, but also illegal. Lee Atwater had it pegged – discrimination has evolved into something so abstract that black Americans are effectively being gaslighted by it.
As a modern black person, you always have that worry in the back of your mind whether X event happened because of discrimination. For instance, a loan officer at a bank looks at not only the credit score and borrowing history of the black couple in front of him, but also falls back on his beliefs and expectations about blacks in general (gleaned from popular culture/mass media/parental viewpoints) and the answer always comes back as “giving these people our money would be as good as throwing it away.”
Black Americans can hear the dog whistles, but telling others just results in “but I didn’t hear anything. Sure you’re not just imagining things?”
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@ Kiwi
I’ve found that white guys seeking Asian women are looking for certain criteria:
1) The “exotic” factor. A white guy dating foreign women feels like an international player (when he’s just a tubby lard who happens to have a lot of money relative to what the locals make).
2) Respectability. Because marrying that Afro-Brazilian woman you bumped uglies with back in Rio just isn’t gonna fly with the folks back home. A Vietnamese or Chinese might earn you a couple of brief jokes, but they’ll accept her with time and good-looking grandchildren.
3) Submissiveness. There’s a good reason why most of these guys can’t catch a decent white woman to save their own skins.
Meanwhile, the Asian women see their new white husband as a meal ticket and an express lane to white American culture. Shame about the kids – unless they’re fully acclimated into white culture in both appearance and mannerism, they’ll have it bad.
I wouldn’t know how to respond to that provocation aside from removing myself from it, which would mean stepping out of line.
The dirtbag in me would had turned around, put my foot on the edge of that stroller and stared them both down, daring them to “bump” me again. But chances are she would have had the slave patrol…ahem…police…on the phone in an instant.
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@Mack Lyons
That might be a factor for some of the Asian women who met their white husband in Asia. I doubt it is a major factor for Asian American women who grew up in the USA who are children of brain drain immigrants, and who might hold advanced graduate or professional degrees already. They might actually end up doing economically better if they stuck to marrying an Asian man.
But yet, these are often the women who run straight to white men. Their well educated decent looking Asian male friends are simply not good enough for them.
I know very few Hmong, Cambodian, Laotian and Vietnamese non-war bride women who ran straight to get white husbands. But Taiwanese American women of brain drain immigrant parents? Loads.
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Kiwi,
Those articles are over 20 years old. Maybe today it might be interesting to interview their kids, now that they are old enough to date.
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@kiwi
Are you still a student?
I strongly suggest that you consider taking an Asian American Studies course and pick one of these topics to do a research paper on. You can share it with others and enlighten them too. You can also learn some other things in the meantime.
I just went over the contents and quizzes of one of the textbooks recommended for use to prepare for the Advanced Placement US history exam. Pretty much zilch is on Asian American history, society and culture. Native American, Latino and black history is not much better. What is taught is purely from an Anglo American white perspective.
Go and do some research. Not the kind you normally do, but more systematically on a topic under the direction of an academic. You might be intrigued by what you may find.
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Kiwi
You are better than me because I would have given them an earful. As to the rude stares I would Have walked over, smiled, and carried on a nice little conversation with a look of “I saw you. Now try that look wih me looking.” They seem to be looking for you to care.
Besides the fact that I think biff is a pedophile , I find it odd that he sees his wife as an opportunist yet gets mad at you for bring it up. He talks about her as if she is one so I am like….wtf!
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Why oh why would you throw a pass one yard away from the goal line?????
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Why oh why would you throw a pass one yard away from the goal line?????
I was too busy checking out those men in tights I haven’t a clue about baseball. All I know is that they like hitting balls. On a serious note, has anyone tried the McDonald’s new chicken, bacon and onion (CBO), sandwich? I did and it was utterly vile. Don’t try this folks
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My thoughts go out to the people in that recent Taiwan TransAsia plane crash. Ugh, stupid racist comments about Asians not being able to drive cars and now planes.
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^ Is that making news there?
Of course it made the headline news here, but so did the commuter train crash with an SUV in Valhalla, NY. I guess those New Yorkers don’t know that it is dangerous to sit in stopped cars on train tracks in front of an oncoming train.
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Sharina said:
That guy can not be serious right?
He can be, and is, totally serious. Sad but true. (And the woman he has chosen for a wife, is serious that he is the best man to be with and have a child with. So, it’s not just about that man, it’s about that woman too [in some capacity], is it not?)
(if you guys end up discussing the woman’s role in this or the dynamic(s) between men and women, please do so on the “woman” thread, so the discussion is in an easy to find topical thread.)
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@ Sharina
…I see religion as restrictive…
It’s supposed to be restrictive, dear 🙂 .
The restrictions are supposed to, in the grand scheme, lead to higher spiritual attainment. If instead “the restrictions” are leading to various misery then it’s reasonable to give the religious tenets one has been living by, a rethink.
That’s exactly what I did as a young teenager (or old child, it was one or the other), it was a difficult process but I’m glad I did it, more important than my “gladness” is that I am better off for having done it!
Perhaps the most difficult thing to let go of from my Christian beliefs, was the belief in an actual existing God entity, whom we have a relationship to. The truest thing in the world for me was my relationship to God. When every other thing or worldly relationship had betrayed me, at least God was there. Telling you about it now brings back the emotionally charged memories of those times,…. ahhh 🙂 . However, I did (through investigation, non-judgmental help from a Buddhist mentor, and sticking with this frustrating, unsettling issue) let go of my monotheism too. It was, for me, an amazing paradigm change. God was as real to me as the skin on my body.
(I don’t mean to cause offence to you Sharina. I don’t think you are looking to abandon Christianity; I speak of my experience in the way that I do because it was what it was. 🙂 )
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@Legion
I will continue the conversation above on the women thread.
As to the religion, no offense at all. I am at the point of rethinking. I am just in a different place in my life and I am having a world of trouble trying to let go of that belief in God. That entity that is suppose to be there.
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@Kiwi
I am glad that I have mostly seen Asian women with Asian men, but I have sadly seen a rise in young Asian girls desperate for white approval and the attention of white males. It looks so sad watching them try to get some attention while these white guys seemingly ignore them.
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@ Kiwi
You make me happy, when you mention your hate. You also make me happy when you mention your received teachings on why it is wrong to hate. I had similar ethical outlooks on the wrongness and danger of engaging in hate. Those teachings can serve you well and keep you from becoming overwhelmed and controlled by baser emotions like hate.
“You make me happy when you mention your hate”
^Am I crazy or evil? No, I’m just pleased that you aren’t bullshitting yourself and being a phony. But should you do something about the hate? Yes!!!!!!
Nipping that hate in the bud* (so to speak) should be an urgent concern for you. Forget your crap, about “justified hate”. I have been a devotee of “justified hate” myself and all it does is make your own life harder to bear. It can even make something as simple as smiling very hard to do: “I won’t smile, I have too much “justified hate” to attend to.
Hardly anything is a fixed reality: If you were seeing the cute black girl mentioned above by you (turned out she had a boyfriend) would you give as much of a shit about these asian/white male pairings and their offensive displays to random Asian men they encounter? I’m guessing you would not give as much of a shit. As for the children they will have/do have, we can’t intervene in the lives of those children. Therefore we shouldn’t torture ourselves over the shit those kids will go through. It’s cliché but we must stick to changing the things we can change. “Concern yourself with your part of the web,” is what Marcus Aurelius says in Meditations (in fact you may wish to give that book a read Kiwi, you may find it very helpful to you).
———————————
* you may want to read/reread? the challenge I spoke of in the China thread. My challenge to not slip into another form of hate.
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Kiwi, comment in moderation to you. It starts out strange but stick with it. 🙂
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@ Sharina
I am having a world of trouble trying to let go of that belief in God. That entity that is suppose to be there.
Wow! I did not know you were going that far, in terms of religious changes/dissatisfaction.
Very well. I only wanted to mention the following if I was in some manner invited to do so:
Sharina, read the doctrine of “Dependent Origination”. It is a POWERFUL argument for why a creator God does not exist.
You will find good discussion of Dependent Origination on a website called: purifymind.com
————————————
Hopefully your husband is supportive of your desire to change and reexamine.
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@Kiwi,
Is there any way to access the article elsewhere without you copying the whole thing here?
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Hi Sharinair,
I’m late but thanks for the reply. I’m in my mid 30’s and wondering if this is really what I have to deal with for the rest of my time in Corporate America. I often feel hurt but I know many all around are dealing with this same thing. I also know there are all types of cruelty other than racism.
I agree that it’s a form of psychological warfare. What gets to me sometimes is how black people on the same team cannot support each other. I guess the black men on my team are dealing with issues too (I see it), so are unable to lend any emotional support to me. They probably fear for their jobs as well. I don’t have the entrepreneurial spirit yet though.
TD Jakes has a video on ‘Don’t lose your head’ about keeping your feelings in check while being attacked because attackers are after your mind. It’s so good and I try to re-listen often.
I get what you’re saying. It’s important to find ways to remove the negative and keep the mind sharp.
—
sharinalr
@Alicia
I haven’t heard back from my friend, but my advice is to do you. Meditate and remove the negative. Certain white males get off on hoping you will feel bad just because they say you should. You have to break those chains.
It is a mental game you can not let them win. If your mind is not sharp then it can break down everything. They know this. It is psychological warfare. If you want to talk with a black male to work then talk with him. Ignore the vibe.
Work to the best of your ability until your business takes off.
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Question for Black men whom work in corporate America: How do you stay strong? As a black woman for me it’s hard. The attack on black womenhood is something you guys probably don’t notice, but it’s very present and hurtful. Black men, how do you keep strong in the face of it and remain confident? I need some tips! I would highly appreciate it.
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InStyle lightens Kerry Washington’s complexion
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/kerry-washington-speaks-out-over-skin-lightening-controversy-on-instyle-cover/ar-AA92EJe?ocid=ansEonline11
Why am I not surprised?
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@ A
Sickening. She looks worse!
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@ Abagond
Agreed, she looks unhealthy. I think that most black people do when their skin is lightened.
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@ Kiwi
I DVR’d Fresh Off The Boat. I didn’t have time when it initially came on, I’m gonna watch it later on today.
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@ Jefe
I unfortunately don’t know any Japanese apart from scattered word & phrases I picked up from consuming so much Japanese media. I agree with your sentiment & I’m determined to take my trip there eventually.
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@ Sharina
My father has been practically begging me to go to church with him for the past year but much like you the grief from the past was too much for me to agree to go. After I told him my reasoning he informed me of some facts about his particular congregation that made me reconsider. For one, the church is led by a husband and wife duo who take turns Preaching. They have a casual dress code and overall feel where there’s more of a focus on healing & positivity instead of endless shaming for hours on end which many Black churches have become notorious for. In light of these facts I think I may join him this Sunday though I’m still not sure that I can go to the extreme of calling myself a Christian.
Do you ever feel conflicted being a Mormon given their not so great racial history in regards to Blacks or do you feel they’ve advanced far enough to forgive?
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I saw the first episode of “Fresh Off the Boat”. It was sickeningly assimilationist.
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abagond, forgive me for this but
this “satire” was shared with me and I had to laugh despite myself, so I’m passing it on.
http://www.people.com/article/hottie-thug-jeremy-meeks-prison-gun-possession
Jeremy Meeks, also known as the ‘Hot Felon,’ was sentenced to more than two years in prison Thursday morning, CBS reports.
Mugshot McDreamy’ will spend the next two years in the big house where he won’t be getting much female attention.
The judge also ordered Meeks to pay a $100 but found that the convict does not have the ability to pay it, CBS reports.
Now a misogynist male commenter’s satirical “review” of how the female posters have/will respond to this news:
“Average Fat Bassip Female
OMG, OMG, OMG, Don’t worry Jeremy baby, I’ll be waiting at those prison release gates when you get out, I’ll be the big one in the bike shorts and halter top!
Need any money while they got you locked down baby, I’ll start a GO FUND ME page for you!
Anything, anything you need baby, I got you!
Wait, somebody just texted me and said this n*gga has a white wife!
Fvck this n*gga, damn criminal, I hope you burn in that motherfvcker!
Ol’ sellout beeeyotch!
Let yo’ white b*tch put money on yo’ books n*gga!
Damn criminal, I hate hate hate criminals!
Girls lets go make a doughnut run, NlGGAS AIN”T SHlT!”
http://bossip.com/1100388/jeremy-meeks-sentenced-two-years-prison-sexy-mugshot-felon-bae/
God forgive, I should not laugh at this but I had a real life moment that was similar to this with a friend who went all gah-gah over Jeremy Meeks picture — and when she found out about his white wife, then all of a sudden, he wasn’t “fine as h” anymore
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@ Linda
Bossip is another one of those ridiculous hood & ratchet news sites that does nothing but just that, report on the going ons in Knee-Grow Land. Nothing on their should be taken seriously or even acknowledged for that matter, as they exist only to show the worst of black people as if its the norm. Nothing new & nothing to see IMO. But I much like you do find it disturbing how many women throb over felons & violent offenders, its a bit strange to say the least.
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A,
I agree but Bossip and other ratchet media like RHW of Atlanta and Love/Hip Hop are are eaten up by our children and they think it’s “OK” and normal to see this behavior.
It seems like money is too great a motivator for black media to think about “image”
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@ Linda
Even scarier is that those Stepin Fetchit reality shows you named are produced by Mona Scott Young who herself is black. These white media giants know exactly what they’re doing. They know they have to have a Black face in a so called important role (as if showing stereotypes aabout your own people is “production” of any kind) so they can always feign ignorance & act as if said Black face is solely responsible for what we see.
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@Legion
Yea. I have been that far for sometime now, but I did not really want to admit it to myself. My husband has been inactive for 18 years now. He goes by spell, but overall I don’t think he would be bothered to much if I left.
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@ A
“Do you ever feel conflicted being a Mormon given their not so great racial history in regards to Blacks or do you feel they’ve advanced far enough to forgive?”—I use to be very conflicted in the early years, especially joining not being aware of the past. The black lds site helped a great bit with me coming to terms with it though. It is pure and simple racism in my mind period.
Even still I feel the church has advanced enough for me to forgive, as it has basically morphed into a different entity than it was in the past. It still has faults and one of the biggest one is not acknowledging that Brigham Young lead the church based solely on his own racism and polygamist nature. I understand why they refuse to. The foundation of the church is a prophet today and that he follows the word of God. That idea and credibility becomes broken if they acknowledge that Young basically lead the church on his own feelings and emotions and not that of God. It brings about the questions of whether or not any of the prophets are true prophets and if they speak to God.
Personally I have found my connection with God was closer than any prophets due to my meditation, but lately I am rethinking the God concept and how it fits into my life.
I hope that some what answers your questions and I did not go off into left field.
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@abagond
I can’t see it where I am, so I am happy to hear reviews here. It is difficult to find online sources that are not blocked outside the USA.
You would think that since the story is written by a Taiwanese-American man, that it would have less stereotyped cardboard roles. I also got quite familiar with the Taiwanese-American community in metro DC in the 1980s, so I would like to see their take on it.
In any case, the target audience is white America and is intended to make them laugh. One would not expect them to present a well rounded picture of anything.
Finally, overly assimilationist is sickening, but so is treating native born Americans as foreigners. What would be perceived as striking a realistic balance that would still be acceptable to whites, blacks and Asians.
@Kiwi
Yes, indeed, it has been over 20 years since we had a TV program with Asian Americans in the leading roles (and males at that), but we are just starting to see comedy entertainment geared for a white audience – basically where we were with blacks in the 1970s. Even the 1970s had films where James Earl Jones played the first black president of the USA. When will Americans be ready for stuff like that?
Finally, it looks like one of the sons is played by a Eurasian male with presumably a white father in real life. Does it disturb you to see such persons playing “unmixed” Asian characters?
There are basically no opportunities for multiracial persons to play multiracial roles. They are all more or less forced to play roles with a monoracial identity.
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Is Cristela and Blackish also sickeningly assimilationist?
I really want to see Sullivan & Son and Fresh off the Boat to see what Hollywood has been doing now.
I would like to see something that is not a comedy, though.
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So are you praising “Fresh off the Boat” for depicting Asian males in a more dignified manner, or are you accusing it of being a slap to the face of Asian men because they hired Eurasian actors?
Is it YAY or NAY?
Why would it not be disturbing for Eurasians to portray Asian characters in mainstream media, but disturbing for them to portray white characters? How about Blasians? Would it disturb you if they portrayed Asian or Black characters? Or should they portray something that would not offend white, black or Asian sensibilities (eg, maybe a polynesian or something)?
I haven’t seen them. Let me check them out.
But it looked like the sister of Sullivan’s character was not played by a Eurasian women, but by a Korean-American. Is it OK for Eurasians to see their roles played by whites or Asians?
But, even if they are, they have to be exceptions. 99% of the time Eurasians (probably even higher for Blasians) are forced to play monoracial roles or Hispanics, not too much unlike real life.
When there are multiracial Asian roles, they are much more often than not portrayed by monoracially identified actors doing scripts written by monoracially identified writers and directed by monoracially identified directors. So whatever voice or depiction or image one may have, it is dictated by people who do not identify with the experience and have their own ideas of what that experience is (which more often than not is not accurate).
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The People article link that Kiwi provided has a link to another piece written by Eddie Huang himself.
(http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/eddie-huang-fresh-off-the-boat-abc.html)
Evidently he was not initially pleased with the “artistic license” taken on his memoirs, but after putting himself in the shoes of the potential audience, he said he understood why it was done.
Basically, ABC did not want to offend white sensibilities.
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^ Can someone explain why a nonexistent hyperlink got attached to my name above?
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In any case, the whole issue of Hollywood changing stories, recasting characters to match the concepts that producers think are needed to sell the product, etc. is something that demands discussion and reflection.
The current situation seems to involve:
– Forcing Eurasians to play whites, unmixed Asians or even Latinos / native Americans. Rarely are they given a Eurasian role to play. Such roles are usually not conceived in the first place by monoracial scriptwriters.
Asian male roles are usually foreign characters, even if they are played by a Eurasian actor.
What is different for “Fresh off the Boat” for me is that the leading character roles are not foreign, but American, regardless of the actual ethnicity of the actors playing them. They are also not purely stereotypes conforming to ideas held by white audiences (like All American Girl in the 1990s).
– An Eurasian role may be created as a ploy by producers to find a way for their perceived audiences to connect with the story, a sort of inauthentic plot device. The Eurasian role is usually played by a white man (eg, harking back to Kung Fu in the 1970s, and continuing to the present, such as in 47 Ronin), but the female roles could be played by white or Asian woman. An actual Eurasian (male or female) can be used only if they are already a famous popular celebrity designed to attract audiences (not many of them – Brandon Lee got away with playing Eurasian roles. Keanu Reeves does sometimes. More often than not it will be a white guy playing the inauthentic Eurasian character. )
The other reason might be to include a white character that is somehow related to another character played by an Asian. That can only be done if the role of the nonwhite character is rewritten to be a Eurasian instead. (eg, Charlie’s Angels).
– When a Eurasian role is actually part of the original story (ie, not a plot device to cast white actors), the role is often given to a white person, sometimes an Asian, but almost never to an actual Eurasian.
(Not sure how I would classify Brandon Lee’s character in Showdown in Little Tokyo – was it plot device, or an actual Eurasian role to be filled in the story? It was strange that the Eurasian character had a Japanese surname and a white father.)
– Blasians are almost always forced to play black characters, or something other than Asian or White.
There are even fewer Blasian characters out there, much less any opportunities for blasian actors to play one.
There are exceptions, such as Juanita Hall, an African-American who played Asian or Pacific Islander roles. Not sure if this could happen today as there are no more such roles anyhow.
The next question: do we need to correct this?
I don’t feel that it is necessary for an actor to match the ethnicity of the character 100% in order to play the role. After all, Randall Park is not Taiwanese or Chinese. But I do feel
– we should not have to rewrite stories so that we can change the casting of the character, into a new story that bears little resemblance to the original story.
– roles should be created to reflect actual realities in society. Multiracially identified persons will expand to 20% of the population within one generation. We need to have realistic roles that represent them, not plot devices. But producers still seem to feel that it offends viewer sensibilities (not unlike the cheerio commercial a couple years ago.)
The only role I can think of like this is Michaela Conlin as Angela Montenegro in “Bones”.
I would have no problem with Mark-Paul Gosselaar or Darren Criss or Russell Wong or even Mark Dacascos playing Eurasian characters, as that is what they are. But I do understand why they are forced to play other characters (either white or Asian) – there is no other choice in the current climate.
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@ Jefe &Kiwi: I left some post on the Perpetual Foreigner thread post about the New ABC sitcom Fresh Off The Boat and i wanted to know your thoughts i thought it was pretty stereotypical and i was uncomfortable watching didn’t know how to feel about it. And if me being African American was uncomfortable watching this i can’t imagine what other Asian Americans feel.
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Instyle Magazine bleached the hell out of Kerri Washington and photo shopped her beyond recognition. I think this is the second time one of they did this and each time the front covers weren’t very flattering. I wonder why she allows the covers to go to print like that?
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My computer is doing something weird and my post are coming out crazy. But I mentioned that this is the second time Kerry Washington has been photographed in this particular magazine Instyle and the covers were unflattering.
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@MB
I have not seen Fresh off the Boat, but I did see Blackhat 2 weeks ago. I did a post on that under the White Saviour Trope
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/mighty-whitey/#comment-274761)
– A foreigner plays the “American” character
– the American actors generally play foreign characters
– Asian women are not interested in Asian guys
– all the black, Latino and Asian characters die off except the girl.
– white guy saves the day
Made me nauseous.
I read that they inserted Chinese dialogue to attract Chinese speaking audiences. But then again, they have no love life and are all killed off. I think Asian audiences have trouble relating to the typical Hollywood white saviour trope, unless it is full of CGI and other effects (and still they don’t get the trope, just the effects).
It is what black and Asian audiences have to endure on the screens back home anyhow.
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I’m feeling down right now. I lost one of my mom’s gold earrings and I’ve been looking everywhere. You may think it’s no big deal, but she gave them to me before she passed away from cancer and its very special to me. Whenever I touch them, which is everyday, I am reminded of her. I touched one of my earrings last night and discovered it was gone, I was overwrought and was hunting high and low for them. I also wept as it has been nearly three years since her passing. 😦 *sigh*
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Please excuse my typos.
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@leigh204: Sorry you are sad, and i hope you find the other earring. I understand how losing something that your dear mother gave you before she passed. I get that way about my dear mother as well. Wishing your peace and light.
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@ Sharina
Yes your comments were clear and I thank you for the link to the website & information. Just got back from my Dads church and I have to say I was impressed. The Pastor was a woman (breath of fresh air) and I guess being away from organized religion for so long & focusing on the reasons why I left made me a bit unfairly pessimistic towards it. The service was great & I think I might go back in a few weeks.
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@ Kiwi & Jefe
I watched Fresh Off The Boat & though I had a few laughs I had some problems with it. The children speak with a general American accent but the parents with a stereotypical, borderline yellow-face Asian American one. The show is set in the mid 90’s so lets say both parents are 40-ish. That would mean they were born sometime in the mid 50’s give or take. If so then its plausible that both parents lived part of their lives in America & in Asia which would explain the accent. The show is based on the life of the creator so while the broken English accents are plausible if not 100% true I just feel as if its played up for Whites & non-Asians to get a laugh at the expense of Asian Americans. What do you guys think?
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@leigh204
That really sucks. I hope you find the missing earring. I know you can’t replace it, but maybe you can find a new piece of jewelry to commemorate the 3yr mark and celebrate with a new way to honor your mom.
@jefe & Kiwi
http://colorwebmag.com/2015/02/08/black-asian-relations-and-fresh-off-the-boat-education-motherhood-and-the-tiger-mom/
I thought this article review of FOTB was pretty dead on, not sure if I will tune in to watch. I’ve already reserved my library copy of Eddie Huang’s memoir. I’m sure the book will be better. 😀
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@A,
As I mentioned above
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread-2/#comment-276153)
it seems that Eddie Huang had to give in to let the producers change many things from the book to make it, in the mind of the producers, more acceptable to the American audience. For example, one message has to be “America is GREAT” or at least “better”. To say that anything is worse in America, esp. coming from the mouth of an immigrant family makes them look like ungrateful SOBs.
So, it might be good to watch both the TV series AND read the original book to see where the producers elected to take “artistic license”.
It seems that Eddie Huang was not excited about that in the beginning, but seemed to acknowledge that some concessions may be needed at this point in time for US society to accept the story. At that point, it is no longer his story, but a made-up one for US TV viewers.
Still, it is a milestone. America took a 20 year hiatus before considering taking a “risk” to air a TV theme having anything to do with an Asian American family. It seems like Eddie Huang conceded that such a stepping stone might be needed before American TV viewers are ready for more realistic, or at least less cardboard portrayal of Asian Americans.
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@lifelearner
As I just said, it might be instructive to compare the book to the TV series. If anything, it will be telling of what Hollywood does when it gets hold of something.
Regarding your link, I think it is great that the author of that piece made scathing attacks against the model minority stereotype and pointed out how Amy Chua is a very divisive person and is feeding the model minority myth monster.
ie,
However, I thought the author would make more insightful observations about Asian-Black relations, but he did not.
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no one was able to give me advice on coping with being a black woman in corporate America? I got one poster to..how about from black men?
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@ Mary Burrell, lifelearner, and Kiwi:
OMG! Guess what you guys?!?! You can’t imagine how very happy I am right now! I FOUND my lost earring!! It was in my hoodie! I washed my laundry earlier and put it in the dryer. When my clothes dried, I started shaking them one by one. And when I shook my hoodie, my precious earring tumbled out of my hood which is strange because I had checked my hoodie earlier.
Anyway, I acted like Gollum from The Lord Of The Rings and I practically jumped at it when it landed on the floor. Oh how my heart leaped for joy! I said a quick thank you to my mom as I’ve been praying for my lost earring. Now that I found it, I want to keep it safe so I won’t ever lose it again, but how? I still want to wear these earrings because they’re a constant reminder of my beloved mother.
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@ Kiwi:
The reason why I wore it all the time is because my mom told me to wear it so I’ll always remember her. However, losing that earring in the first place made me do a lot of thinking. I just went out to my local mall and I purchased a photo keychain for my car keys. I frequently use my car so whenever I turn the ignition on and off, I’ll see my mom’s kind face and I’ll always hold dear my cherished memories of her. Problem solved. Anyway, I placed these treasured earrings with my other jewellery for the time being. I’ll only use them on special occasions from now on.
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@ Leigh
What a close call!
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@ Kiwi
Wow. So Western imperialism had absolutely nothing to do with it! Fascinating. The Bootstrap Myth writ large. Cultural racism at its finest, built, as always, on “correlation is cause”.
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@Leigh204
Glad to hear you found it.
Yeah probably better to wear it on special occasions, and when you do wear them, always carry a case to put them in, so that they are either on your ears or in the case.
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@Kiwi,
Watching that video reminded me of reading Asplund.
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F’ing Racist America
Black and Brown people are not SAFE because when some random White person feels “threatened” — he can call the cops and put some random strangers life in danger.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/alabama-cop-arrested-takedown-left-indian-man-partially-paralyzed-n305471
According to a statement by the Madison Police Department, a neighbor called to report a “suspicious” person walking around the neighborhood.
In a 911 call to police that day, the caller identifies Patel as “a skinny black guy” he had never seen before walking around the neighborhood. The caller also said that he was following Patel from a distance, and that he was afraid to leave for work and leave his wife alone at home
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/fashion/fashions-racial-divide.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_li_20150212&nl=nytliving&nlid=59850509&ref=headline
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It seems saying someone is black and suspicious is all it takes for the police to respond and go crazy. it is somewhat like swatting, but instead of lying to get the police to break down someone’s door they lie to get the police to respond faster just make up a lie saying someone has a gun or is black and threatening and u get fast response. I hope mr patel wins his lawsuit.
I can’t help but notice differences in how they handled this compared to a black person being killed by the police. The police officer involved was arrested and charged, the police chief apologized and recommended the officer be fired. Now compare that to a black person killed and they don’t get an apology but it is their family and community that is expected to apologize for how they react. They get victim blamed and called a thug. The officer does not get arrested and sometimes isn’t even charged. The officer is not fired just put on paid vacation or desk duty. They lie and say they thought they saw a phantom negro weapon.
It shows that even a person from another country life matters more than a black person born and raised here.
The son said “This is a good neighborhood. I didn’t expect anything to happen,”
aka this a white neighborhood and I didn’t expect anything bad to happen. Yes because the news just shows black and latino neighborhoods as being violent, forget all about sundown towns and whites wanting to keep everybody else out through intimidation, violence, and now calling the police to report their own neighbor for being suspicious(nonwhite).
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and usually when a black person is killed they just have the grand jury decide to indict or not and usually they don’t. This man will get justice, but Mike Brown, John Crawford, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice more than likely won’t get justice. The list goes on. Then they put the victim on trial and bring up things they have done or their family has done.
I’m not so mad at the others that get treated better than black folks i’m mad at the system that undervalues, destroys, and exploits black life.
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Alicia
no one was able to give me advice on coping with being a black woman in corporate America? I got one poster to..how about from black men?
———————————————————————————————
Are black men the best qualified for employment advice?
Career Advice for Young White Men
http://www.counter-currents.com/2015/02/career-advice-for-young-white-men-podcast/#more-53080
Click on the link and listen to the podcast of these two OLDER white men revealing career advice for young white men. What they are really doing is providing a “key code” because the points they make are sound employment strategy for everyone; including the black females they contemptuously dismiss towards the beginning of the interview.
Topics include:
How to tell if you are in a dead-end job.
Jobs in which you make decisions vs. jobs in which you implement other people’s decisions
White collar and pink collar jobs
Common mistakes people are making in their jobs today
The importance of continually networking
The importance of searching for better jobs while you are still employed
The importance of simply asking authorities to share their knowledge
Everybody’s favorite subject: himself
The importance of passion, commitment, and “fit” in determining success
The necessity of self-actualization
The importance of emotional intelligence
The abundance vs. scarcity mentality
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@Leigh204: Glad you found your earring.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/14/americas/canada-mass-shooting-plot/
These two potential mass murderers are labelled ‘misfits’, I call them terrorists. Ain’t love grand?
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@ Mary Burrell:
Thanks, I’m glad I found my earring, too!
Anyway, I finally watched the first episode of Fresh Off The Boat. There were many scenes in the show that I identified with especially the lunch scene. I remember bringing Filipino food (chicken adobo with rice) in grade school, and I was made fun of because my food smelled. What the hell? It smelled and tasted delicious! Remember. I grew up in a predominantly white environment.
At first, I felt bad because no one wanted to sit next to me with my “smelly” food. After school, I went home and asked my mom if she could make white people food. She said in her Filipino accented English, “What eez white peepole pood? Pood is food btw. I said, “Sandwiches!” She knew enough to make ham and cheese sandwiches, but Filipinos make due with what they have in the pantry. Instead, she used luncheon meat, and Cheez Whiz! LOL!
At lunchtime, the white kids saw I didn’t bring any Filipino food, but they STILL laughed at what I brought. I couldn’t win! Anyway, I took one bite of the sandwich and it was disgusting so I threw it out. My mom asked me why I didn’t eat my white people food. I said the food tasted terrible and my mom smiled. She laughed and said, “Peelipino pood’s da bess.” I no longer cared about the ostracization by white kids regarding my Filipino food. In fact, I brought Filipino food throughout grade school until I went to high school. Then burgers, hot dogs, and fries became my thing. LOL!
Okay, one thing I didn’t like in Fresh Off The Boat is the main character being called the C-word by another person of colour. I didn’t find that plausible. In my experience, I have only been called the C-word among other slurs by white people…NEVER by another person of colour. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it just didn’t seem conceivable to me.
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FUCK!
I told a friend about a potentially awesome business project for him. But I’ve now found out the venture is a total dead end. Damn. He had to have gotten excited about it. I feel really fucking bad. I have to tell him about the dead end; this is so awkward and shitty. I can’t believe this, it feels like really, really bad karma.
I wonder that he will think I yanked his chain on purpose (we had a rough patch in the past). He might think I did the whole thing on purpose. Jesus, the level of awkward that I’m feeling is through the fucking roof. I can’t stop swearing either. Fuck!
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[prior comment is waiting for moderation release]
additional comment follows:
Ah, that’s nice. I called and left a stupid message on his voice mail. I called back to mitigate the message I left and have it make more sense, but there is no more room on the voice mail. So, I’m stuck at my stupid message. Fu*king awesome!
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@leigh204; Thanks for your feedback on the show, that black character calling the Asian kid that derogatory name bothered me too. But i just didn’t know how to view it. Your experience pretty much mirrored the kid in the show.
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@leigh204
See that scene you described from FOTB, sounds like the classic saying. “They do it too! Blacks are more racist than whites.”
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@Leigh204
I have heard the C-word from both blacks and whites.
Maybe if you grow up in an area with large numbers of both …
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@ Jefe:
In my neck of the woods, the population of POC has risen significantly. And I still have yet to hear another POC utter the C-word. As I mentioned earlier, I didn’t say it doesn’t happen, but maybe where I’m from, Canadian POC are more mindful of what they say?
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^ Or rather don’t say?
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@ Kiwi:
Care to give an example?
@ Mary Burrell:
I kept nodding my head in agreement regarding the situations the main character (Eddie Huang) experienced, that is, for the most part. For example, the scene where Eddie and his mom go to a suburban grocery store and his mom tells him, “If we get separated, go find a white family.” Yeah, no. My parents didn’t believe white people were special. I understand FOTB is a situational comedy, but my family was unlike any other Asian family who didn’t place white people on a pedestal.
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@ lifelearner:
Yup. On more than a few occasions, I’ve personally heard so-called well meaning Canadian whites grumble about POC are just as guilty as whites for uttering racial slurs as if it makes them less culpable.
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@Legion
Try not to take it so hard. You made a mistake. I am sure he can overlook that.
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@Kiwi
The whites you encounter sound retarded.
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I know that is a bit harsh but I can’t think of another word the describe that level of sheer stupidity. Yet biff still will argue their high iq.
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Are people really that stupid?
Yes they are. Next time a white person asks you where you are from, tell them you are from your mother and keep walking. If they persist just repeat this, their reactions are priceless!
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@Kiwi,
So none of your grandparents were native Taiwanese? They were all migrants from the mainland?
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@ kiwi
“Are people really that stupid?”—I agree with Herneith. People are that stupid. The level of stupidity is shocking at first, especially when it is perpetrated by people who are suppose to be smart of have some decent level of education, but then as it occurs more often….not so much.
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or not of**
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Happy Chinese New Year!
Year of the Goat/Sheep/Ram🎊
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Yay, Happy Chinese New Year!
You know what’s interesting? The local grocery stores in my hometown have been commercially celebrating Chinese New Year in recent years. You name it. I saw sweets, red envelopes, red chinese lanterns, etc. I remember when there was nothing regarding Chinese New Year was even remotely promoted.
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@ Kiwi:
Thank you for your examples. It’s funny (not haha funny) when white people attribute something to someone’s background rather than it being an individual thing. I recall I was in a carpool sitting in the passenger seat with some white co-workers in the back. We had passed by a minor car accident involving an Asian woman. It appears she crashed into a utility pole. The roads were slippery that day as there was ice on the ground. Anyway, I overheard one of my co-workers remarked, “Why does it seem Asians aren’t good drivers. They just can’t drive.” There was silence because I was the only Asian in the car. And then I blurted out, “Oh, yeah? Then why is it when you see the majority of car accidents in the local news, why does it mostly consist of white people?” Again, there was silence. And the co-worker who made the earlier remark said, “Okay. You made your point.” I continued, “One person, who happened to be Asian, was involved in a car accident. It doesn’t mean Asians are bad drivers. It can happen to anybody. It’s ridiculous.” Let’s just say the silence in the car was deafening.
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Happy Chinese New Year
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It’s the year of the Ram/sheep
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@abagond
Hello. First time poster, but long-time reader. Love the site! I was wondering if you’d consider doing a post on Geraldo Rivera’s recent comments. He said that “Hip Hop has done more damage to Black and Brown people than racism in the last 10 years”.
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@ Kiwi
That’s fine. It looks like a typo, not someone pretending to be you.
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@ Peanut/Pumpkin
I will write you a letter sometime tomorrow, God (and procrastination) willing.
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@Kiwi,
So, I would surmise that since your family only spent what amounts to one generation in Taiwan, they did not learn to speak Taiwanese and have limited identification with the native Taiwanese politics.
In fact, they have been in the USA as long as they were in Taiwan. To what extent do they identify with US politics? They view themselves as non-native persons in their current homeland, so local and national politics do not involve them? Even when it affects Chinese Americans?
Anyhow, when you encounter those uninformed people both in the USA and abroad, did you take the opportunity to educate them? Did you tell them, for example,
– Asians (Filipinos and Chinese) settled in what is now the USA 430 years ago since the 1580s, before any English, Germans or Africans did.
– Asians came to the USA in large numbers since the mid 19th century, about the same time as the Irish and Germans and way before the Italians, Jews, Poles, Swedes, etc. They are now into their 8th generation or more. Japanese came about the same time as the latter group and are now in their 6th-7th generation.
– Chinese is the 3rd most widely spoken language in the USA, following English and Spanish; Tagalog is 5th. These are languages used daily in the US and are used more much more than either German or Italian.
– The reason that Asian numbers were suppressed in the first half of the 20th century (amounting to 85 years of time) was because of laws prohibited their immigration and ability to become citizens (ie, racist immigration policies).
– You cannot call only the descendants the invaders who seized the land and drove off or killed the native inhabitants as the “real American” and not apply that to others. To do so is not only wrong, it is offering tacit support to those atrocities.
– (as a gentle reminder and warning), it is rude and ignorant to treat German-Americans as “American” and not do the same thing to Chinese Americans or other Asians in the USA. Why don’t they talk about American culture to the Asian Americans and European culture and politics to the European-Americans?
You should really take the opportunity to educate them on the spot. I never let whites (American or Foreign) or even blacks and Asians get away with that kind of talk in front of me. Don’t mince words.
Let them know, clearly and in no uncertain terms, that they should never talk like that ever again. It makes them look ignorant, so you are trying to save them embarrassment later. I make them retract that behavior and apologize for it on the spot.
You can do this more easily with strangers or new acquaintances. It is more difficult with persons such as your boss, colleagues, teachers, neighbours, etc., but it can still be done in steps / stages.
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Remembering Malcolm X today may he rest in peace and power. He was assassinated February 21, 1965 in the Audubon Hotel.
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Today is also Nina Simone’s birthday i am listing to some of her music on youtube. She was a queen.
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@ Jefe
WI guess you’re right about Fresh Off The Boat. I admit that it could be that I’m possibly over-sensitive about representation of POC on Hollywood due to their terrible track records but the parents accents still bother me. I noticed the same thing with Sofia Vergara on Modern Family. No doubt she has a thick accent, but on the show its played up to the point of caricature. It seems more like she’s playing what whites envision a Latina to be than just who she is and as such appears to be a Brownface of sorts. To top it off she’s married to a white man instead of to a Latino and is the only Hispanic in the merged family which effectively otherizes her and makes the whites seem like the norm.
Hollywood just doesn’t seem to want POC create their own narratives without stereotypes or a white savior. They never show anyone accomplishing much without help from whites, which is one of the reasons I believe Selma got snubbed at the Oscars in the best director category. Had Ava DuVernay showed white allies as being the most important part of the story no doubt she would have received much more accolades from the establishment but she didn’t so they turned their ass up at her, it infuriating.
Just this week another white savior film, McFarlane USA came out showing a Mexican American cross country team being helped (saved) by a white coach played by Kevin Costner who seems to have played this role too many times to count. I believe Eddie Huang has very noble intentions but the studio through their white lens seems determined to thrown in a certain amount of bullsh!t in order to give any show with POC the green light. it just makes you want to vomit after a while.
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@ Mary thanks for pointing that out I didn’t know it was Ninas Bday. Did you see how they have Zoe Saldana portraying her in dark makeup? It was a bit disturbing to say the least.
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Hi ABAGOND, I think you need to review poster “thwack” posts, especially his one to me in here and the link he put in his message and then remove his account and access, he’s a troll!
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^ So how do they feel about immigration reform?
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@A,
It seems that in order to have popular media do stories on people other than whites, it must
– generally have to be a white saviour trope
– cannot offend whites
If it is not a white saviour trope, it still cannot offend whites.
If it depicts whites in any negative way, then it must be only “bad” whites. The good whites beat the bad whites for the sake of the helpless darkies. (Think “The Help”, “12 years as a Slave” “Django Unchained” “Mississippi Burning”).
If it is not a white saviour trope, then it is a magical negro trope where a black character with special powers (sometimes could be Asian, eg, the Karate Kid), helps the white protagonist win. Think “Ghost” “Bruce Almighty”.
Any other trope is too offensive to whites, and cannot be shown in popular media.
Anything in “Fresh Off the Boat” cannot say anything bad about America. That is a big NO-NO. The typical white response is “If you don’t like it, get the hell of this country and go back home.” Also, it cannot say anything bad about whites without saying something bad about blacks. At least to whites it will seem more “fair:
So, I am sure the narrative in Fresh off the Boat had to be rewritten not to offend white sensibilities. No glorification of ungrateful darkies, no no no!
Have you seen Blackhat (2015 film). I see a variation of the white saviour trope can also be acceptable to white audiences, esp. white male audiences, where the white saviour gets the Asian girl. But the story appeals mostly to white males. It is offensive to about everyone else, ie.
– a white foreign non-American male plays the American hero
– the main native born American male actors all play foreign Asian men
– all the main black, Latino and female characters are killed and have no love life
– all the Asian males are killed and have no love life
– the Asian female serves and nurses the white male hero back to health, and they are the only ones who survive and live happily ever after.
They inserted Asian language dialogue (Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean, Bahasa Indonesia) to appeal to Asian audiences, but I think they messed up. The main Asian male role is played by an American actor, but by someone very well known in Asia (Leehom Wang), (as he had to leave the USA to develop his career). But he remained a cardboard figure, they gave him NO love life – he had to sacrifice himself so that his “sister” could be happy with a white man. The trope is gross.
It might have worked better in Asia if at least one Asian man survived and HE got the girl.
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@Kiwi,
No, I don’t want to be more specific, as I want to leave it an open question.
Can break it up as
– do we need immigration reform?
– if so, what kind of reform would make things better?
– is there any concept of “fair” and “not fair” and to whom?
Still, the original question remains “How do they feel about immigration reform?” and no more specific than that.
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@ Kiwi
Just remind Biff that if people did indeed cross the Bering Strait from North Asia into the Americas then technically the 1st here were Asian lol.
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@A,
No need to go back that far to a Bering Strait land bridge theory that has not yet been proven.
Asians arrived to North America across the Pacific in the 1580s — before the English, the Germans, even Africans.
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@Kiwi,
Did you tell him that Chinese and Filipinos arrived in California before the English, Germans and Africans, and that the Spanish were there before that and the Native Americans were there first?
Does he know that California was part of Mexico for some 300 years, and Anglo Americans took control only recently? After they came, they tried to cleanse the state of Mexicans and Native Americans by genocide, expulsion and lynching, and then used the same techniques with the Chinese a couple decades after that. In the war they removed all the Japanese Americans. That is how they made it into an Anglo-American society there.
Does he know that when he says the Anglo Americans were there first he has just rewritten history? Do you correct him? I don’t mean just multiple times, but to the point of re-educating him? Knowing what I know now, I would never let my parents get away with saying or thinking any of that.
Does he know that he was able to enter the USA only because the racist immigration laws were repealed just a few years before that?
He did not learn US history in the USA. Where did he learn all this “information”?
Anyhow, the reason why I asked is he was able to come to the USA specifically because the anti Asian immigration laws were repealed. So, how does he feel about reform now? If he is active in politics, he must have an opinion on this since it is especially relevant to California. Even if he doesn’t talk about it, it must be obvious how he votes and what issues he supports and opposes.
I was also wondering if he thought the immigration reform specifically targeted any people, eg., Mexicans.
I also was wondering if he saw immigration as the main way for the USA to solve its labour and economic problems (as opposed to restructuring the economy or doing something about racism).
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@A: Yes, I have to say it was a source of contention for me as well. I will not be supporting that film.
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@ Mary, same here. The fact that Zoe Saldana also goes so far out of her way to call herself Latina but avoids being called black like the plague yet has no issue garnering a paycheck by portraying a woman who was unabashedly PROUD to be black is very hypocritical on her part IMO.
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Abagond, I was wondering if you would ever do a post on heightism? I know a lot of people dismiss heightism, and reduce it down to short guys whining that they can’t get tall girls. But it turns out that heightism holds back people – primarily short men – in a variety of areas. I’m not trying to suggest that (white) short men have had their civil rights violated in the way that people of color or women have. However, from short men being severely underrepresented in the top echelons of business, to movies portraying short men as the “funny sidekick” or “insecure loser”, I think this topic is worthy of discussion. Short men also have nasty stereotypes like “short man syndrome” attached to them if they’re ambitious in life.
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@MB & A,
I can understand why you may experience initial negative feelings about Zoe Saldana playing someone like Nina Simone, but how would you expect someone to act that would be fair to everyone?
Zoe Saldana had a Puerto Rican father and Dominican mother and spent a good chunk of her childhood in the Dominican Republic. I really wouldn’t regard her calling herself “Latina” as going out of her way to do so. To avoid calling herself Latina (and say, calling herself simply “Black”) would be denying what she is for the most part.
So, assuming that the problem is not her calling herself Latina, but her playing Anglo-American black roles while calling herself Latina. (I assume that you would not be as perturbed if she played a black Latina or multiracial Latina role).
The thing is — there are hardly any of those roles in Hollywood. If she wants to be an actress, and happens to be part black, she will be forced to audition for roles that include mostly non-Latino black roles, to be selected by most white producers and casting directors. If she did not audition for those black roles, she would largely be out of work.
Or are you saying that as she plays the role as Nina Simone, a black civil rights activist, then she should cast off her personal identity and call herself black because of the roles she plays?
In that case, there would be thousands of actors and actresses in Hollywood that you would feel perturbed about. If Dwayne Johnson decided to claim his Samoan identity, would you feel upset at his playing a black role? What about Apl.de.ap (who is very expressive of his Filipino roots and plays a Filipino in his music videos despite having a black father) was asked to play a black man in a movie? Kirk Acevedo has a Puerto Rican father and a Chinese mother, but often plays a white Anglo role in movies (e.g., “Carver” in Rise of the Planet of the Apes). Lou Diamond Phillips is not at all Mexican (born in the Philippines to an Cherokee-Irish American dad and Filipino/Chinese/Spanish mom), and would never call himself as such, yet he played the iconic Mexican-American Ritchie Valens in “La Bamba” and a Mexican-American in “Stand and Deliver”. Should Mexican-Americans be up in arms about that? Juanita Hall, who DID identify as a black woman, played a Chinese woman in Flower Drum Song and a Pacific Islander in South Pacific.
Randall Park, a Korean-American is playing a Taiwanese American in “Fresh off the boat”.
I can probably rattle off hundreds (if not thousands) of actors and actresses who have played roles of iconic persons but who identified ethnically and culturally differently from the roles they played. I’m not just talking about blackface and yellowface. However, if they only chose roles that matched their actual ethnic identification, they wouldn’t get much work.(eg. Lou Diamond Phillips for sure). What is the solution that you propose?
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@ Jefe: I just don’t think she is right to play Nina Simone that’s my issue. I could care less about how she identifies, i just think that is crazy casting her as a dark skin, wooly haired Nina Simone. The fact that they darkened up her face and put prosthetics is insulting when they could have just got a dark skinned actress. Danai Gurura or Viola Davis. People Saldana don’t even identify as black.
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@ Jefe
I guess for me nationality and race are separate things for me. What I mean by that in short is, I’m sure not every actor who played a member of the Mafia is Italian, yet they are still white. When I see things like Angelina Jolie playing a black woman in a curly wig in A MIghty Heart it bothers me to no end because a clear double standard is presented, whites can play any race they want where as people of color have to be whatever stereotypical role of the race they belong to.
The only exception to this rule seems to be the Hispanic/Middle Eastern/South Asian quagmire. Actors of these races/ethnicities get cast as characters from all three. Problem is, this isn’t based on privilege like with white actors, its based on the fact that Hollywood looks at these 3 as being superficially similar in appearance and therefore it matters not if you have a Mexican actor playing a Lebanese character. To them these 3 races fall somewhere roughly equally on the spectrum between the extremes of black and white as and for that reason I find it just as abhorrent. It makes it seem like “brown” is just a nothing title that anyone with a light to medium brown complexion can fill into and gives no respect or credence to history or the struggle each of these peoples face.
As far as Zoe is concerned, the blackface is simply insulting. I don’t see how any self respecting person could do such a thing. Malcolm X is extremely light complexioned, did Denzel Washington lighten his skin to portray him? No, and he didn’t need to because his performance was so great that by 20 minutes into the film I thought I was watching the man, the myth, the legend himself. It could be my negative experiences with Dominicans in regards to race but glass half empty or not, I know what I’ve seen and heard.
For example; in my latter high school years nearly all of my friends were Dominican. I’m sitting in the barbershop getting a cut and of course like any room full of guys the conversation turns to women. Without getting too graphic one guy asked another “did you (blank) her yet” to which the guy being asked responded “hell nah she f**kin BLACK!” Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY (with the obvious exception of myself) in the shop started laughing. I sat stunned not simply for the fact that I had grown up with a lot of these guys and thought they were decent, but by the fact that the individual in question who deemed this (gorgeous btw) women as “too black” was himself, you guessed it black. At least by one drop rule standards he was. What also struck me was that the mother of his child though Dominican, was also Black and very dark in complexion herself. So you mean to tell me that you can sleep a black woman and create a child with her, but any woman her color isn’t good enough to be YOUR woman and be seen out and about with you? I got the answer to my rhetorical and internal question by being reminded that this must have been the reason she was his “baby momma” and not his woman. I’m not a violent man but I can tell you I’ve never been compelled to get up and knock the hell out of someone than in that very moment.
I kept my cool however as the entire ordeal of fools who are black themselves laughing at black jokes was too much for me to handle at that moment and I approached him calmly and said “what’s your problem?” To which he, still believing me to be Dominican and thus in on the joke replied. “Come on n*gga every b*tch I been with that been with a black n*ggas p*ssy stank!” Another roar of laughter filled the room except for my friend who unlike the hyenas laughing knew that I was Black and not Dominican had a look of fright on his face. I stood up looked the guy in his face and said “then I guess that means every woman you’ve been with stinks” The figurative record stopped at this very moment as he finally realized something was wrong. He starts yelling (no lie, hollering) at the top of his lungs “N*gga I ain’t f*kin black!!?” To which I sarcastically replied “is that why the cops pull you over for no reason?” He looked over to our mutual friend who had now made his way between us as did the rest of the shop as they saw how heated it had become.
The head barber and owner of the shop said we had to take it outside if we were going to continue but he and the rest of the guys still looked confused as if they had no clue as to why I was upset. I was finished with my cut so I paid the barber and never went back. When I saw my friend at school the next day he said “Yo A it’s not that big a deal we just joke around about sh!t like that sometime” to which I replied “no I don’t” We weren’t friends for very long after. The experience told me 1 thing very clearly, not all but many Dominicans had clear self hate & internalized racism throughout their communities. I finally understood why a lot of the Black kids always showed love to Dominicans but may of them were standoff-ish to us. Deep down inside they were disgusted by us and the type of experience that I spoke of in the barbershop was the reason why. From childhood there’s a clear disdain taught to them about Black people and about what being Black is.
I know we’ve gone back and forth about this before and I agree it’s definitely based on what they’re taught but how many years do you have to walk this earth before you challenge your own views and realize some of what you believe is simply bullsh!t. We as Black Americans are taught that dark skin is unattractive and associated with negativity but those of us in the know still check those of us who aren’t when they say self hating things about our dark skin brothers and sisters, why shouldn’t we do the same for those of Latin origin?
If simply being Latino or Hispanic is a good enough excuse for this ignorance than do tell how another group of Black Hispanics who lived in the exact same area blended in with Blacks to the point of not standing out. A group that spoke Spanish, listened to Latin music, had quinceaneras for their 15th birthdays yet STILL were proudly Black and would tell you in a second. The group I’m talking about? Panamanians. That’s right, you can celebrate a culture and ethnicity while also being proud of the larger umbrella of people your tied to in this struggle and that’s why I can’t allow the excuse of “its just what they’re taught” to pass. I’ve known Panamanians for years at a time and went unaware of their nationality until they themselves told me. Do Dominicans have to do this? No. Do they have to be best friends with Blacks? No. But they do need to show a little more respect than commenting on how “too black” someone is or whether or not a womans vagina smells simply for having relations with a man that society looks at as being identical to them.
I say all that to say this, when Zoe proclaims to be proud of being Latina which is not even a race but an ethnic group yet sees no issue getting a paycheck by portraying not just any black women, but one of the most amazing black women to have ever walked this earth its very offensive. Namely because her proclamations of being Latina sound much like the “I’m not black, I’m Taino/White/Latino” from other self hating Afro-Latinos who believe they can deny something that even Stevie Wonder can see-they’re Black. I realize that this is an assumption and I don’t know her from a can of paint but odds are she grew up in an environment much like the one I described where she was told Black was ugly and eventually caved in and drank the Kool-Aid. If you have the wherewithal to treat everyone with a lighter complexion like a god yet treat everyone whose darker like sh!t than I’m sorry but you cannot use ignorance as an excuse, you know good and well what you’re doing.
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@Mary
You basically summed up how I feel. I am a fan of Zoe, but when I heard she was playing Nina Simone I was highly disappointed.
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@A: Thank you for articulating what i couldn’t but was thinking.
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@shirinalr: I think Saladana is a talented actress but i think it’s just not right for her to be playing a woman like Nina Simone who people of her ethnicity have such disdain for. Mostly it was the blackface and prosthesis that i thought was insulting.
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@A
Applause*
@Mary
I had no idea they were going so far as to use blackface. I am with you 100%. I don’t feel right with her playing Nina Simone. I wish I had a say because Viola Davis would be my top pick. She is on fire right now.
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@ Mary
Thank you. Like I stated above my thoughts on Zoe Saldana are still an inference based on what she said but yet and still many Hispanics, black, white or otherwise give themselves similar labels yet jump at the chance to dog Black people out when we’re not around. Or when they think we aren’t. Unlike my opinion of what Zaldana could be my experiences fully inform me on what many of her national origin are. Due to people mistaking me for being Hispanic I’ve been able to hear many a non-black persons opinion of us and let me tell you, that gut feeling of uncertainty that somehow someone holds disdain for you yet you just can’t place it because you want to give them the benefit of the doubt; most of the time you’re gut feeling is correct. It may sound militant or unfair to some but if you’ve been the proverbial fly on the wall as I have you know how deeply and widely anti-Black sentiment runs.
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@ Sharina
Viola Davis’ fro at the last television award show I saw (the name escapes me) was amazing.
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Let me say this. If Zoe indeed looks at being Latina with pride in the same manner as someone looks at being, Nigerian, Haitian, Guyanese, Indigenous Aussie-simply a Black nationality yet along with that is proudly Black than I have no issue admitting to being wrong about her and no issue with her portraying Nina Simone. Its just that for me Nina Simone was transcendent and I happen to be aware that she is one of many great Black artists from her time period who had Rock music appropriated by Whites who stole it and never looked back without at the very least giving credit where credit is due. Based on this fact and also as a music fiend her portrayal being accurate is a bit of a sensitive topic for me. Add in the blackface, Saldanas commentary on her ideas of race and my aforementioned experiences with many Black Hispanics it leaves a particularly bitter taste in my mouth.
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“A,
A group that spoke Spanish, listened to Latin music, had quinceaneras for their 15th birthdays yet STILL were proudly Black and would tell you in a second. The group I’m talking about? Panamanians. That’s right, you can celebrate a culture and ethnicity while also being proud of the larger umbrella of people your tied to in this struggle and that’s why I can’t allow the excuse of “its just what they’re taught” to pass.”
Linda says,
A,
In most Latino/Caribbean countries who had African “maroon” communities, you will find pro-black attitudes– Jamaica, Panama, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador — but trust, they haven’t escaped from colourism or the Eurocentric mindset.
There was a lot of migration back and forth between Central America and the Caribbean islands; but even before Caribbean migration in 1900s, Panama had good size free black society (vs slaves) since the 1700s
The history between Haiti and the Dominican Republic is a sad one because without Haiti, there would be no Dominican Republic. DR is the story of colourism gone wrong.
Don’t give up on the Dominicans, they are starting to get their reality check the longer they live in the USA.
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Mary and Sharinalr,
I was also disappointed in Zoe for accepting the Nina Simone role. It’s not even about being “black” or about what Zoe identifies as.
Nina Simone, her songs and her life, represented the struggles of her being a dark-skinned black women, living in a world that celebrates light-skin/ European features in both the black, brown, and white communities in the USA (the world)
something that Zoe did not live and could not empathize with. Having to deal with white racial prejudice is different than dealing with colourism within your own group.
I do see, hear and witness the pain that is caused by what we, black and brown people do to each other based on skin tone, because the sh’t goes both ways and it’s divisive.
but I would never disrespect my dark-skinned friends or family members by saying “I know how you feel” or ” I feel what you go through” because I don’t.
I think she was highly disrespectful for taking the Nina Simone role, when there were dark-skinned actresses like Lauryn Hill, who have Real-life experience and history to draw from, to bring Nina Simone to life.
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@ Linda.
No I haven’t given up on them at all. But I also make it clear if and when one of them trips of what I and more importantly they are. I honestly don’t have much of an issue with someone saying they aren’t Black so much as I have the problem of the hypocrisy that stems from doing things like playing Black roles in films, use the N-word etc. Its your life, you can identify as what you want but disrespect is something I will never tolerate.
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Because i have been on the receiving end of afro latinos Cubans and Puerto Ricans and have heard them say ugly things in reference to black people. And they themselves have african blood in them. I just couldn’t understand what the hell that was about but as i have been a commenter on this blog for awhile i am learning about that.
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@Linda: Yes, to all you said
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Abagond already did a post about this topic:
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/zoe-saldana-to-play-nina-simone/)
Apparently, we have a white film director, white casting director and white producers. They could not raise enough money to do the film unless Zoe Saldana played the lead. Maybe this particular issue has more to do with what white people, esp. white men want and less about Zoe Saldana’s racial and ethnic sensitivities and the sensitivities that black Americans may have regarding the choice of Zoe Saldana to play the role.
But sometimes, films on POC issues are programmed based on what white people want, and it could flop (because no one could accept it) or do well (as minstrel shows did well with white audiences.)
In a slightly different, but related topic, this article specifies the request that directors have to require actors to play to stereotypes. This affects whites as well, but whites have thousands of different stereotypes available. POC characters do not, and besides playing to stereotypes, their roles have no depth (ie, cardboard).
A rare behind-the-curtain look at acting that’s less glam and more racist
(http://www.upworthy.com/a-rare-behind-the-curtain-look-at-acting-thats-less-glam-and-more-racist?)
Let’s see how the directors of Nina force Saldana to play to stereotype.
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OK Kiwi,
I am about to make some claims.
* I strongly believe that I have personally known or met even more Asian immigrants to the USA than you, from a wider variety of backgrounds and for a longer period of time. I have even worked in establishments that were almost entirely non-English speaking immigrants.
* I am certain that I have known / met more immigrants to the USA BEFORE they even went to the USA.
* I am certain that I have known / met / worked with / interacted with more people, Asians or otherwise, that have never set foot in the USA.
So, I am very familiar with the phenomenon, maybe even more so than you.
OK, that said,
I don’t accept the white = American = white from anyone (native born or immigrant Asian, even whites, blacks, Latinos) regardless of their background. If they commit that error, I will politely, but firmly correct them. If they do it again, I will remind them again. I will continue to do it, 100 times, 1000 times if necessary, as many times as it takes. I will advise them that not only is it wrong, it would be offensive to many Americans. If they continue doing it, I will advise them that if they continue to repeat those errors, it will make them look foolish, ignorant or uneducated. I take it as seriously as someone using the C-word or N-word.
I may resort to using many examples to help them understand. For example, if it is a foreigner who has never stepped in the USA (or even one that has), I will ask them if it is right to say that the president of the USA and his family are not Americans. I might give the example of Singapore, which is about 74% ethnic Chinese – can they say only the ethnic Chinese are Singaporeans and the rest are not?
Last year, I went to do an audit in a factory in a town in NE Guangdong province. The factory owner had never set foot outside China, not even to Hong Kong or Macau. When he did the white = American = white thing, I immediately, politely, but nevertheless firmly advised him not to do that. I explained it to him meticulously in Mandarin, and again in Cantonese. When he did it again, I reminded him, explained again and gave him further examples why he should not do that. I also advised him that European descendant people in the USA are not “true” Americans in any case – their ancestors came in and drove out or killed the native population to occupy their land.
They eventually “get” it. Especially if you are persistent and patient.
A close friend of mine in the Philippines did the white = American = white thing to me when I saw him 2 years ago. I told him that he must never do that, but he defended himself saying that that is most Americans anyhow. I told him – Not where I came from or spent my life – not in San Francisco, DC, NY, most of the Deep South, Hawaii, etc. Yes, we can find regions of the USA that might be like that, but it is wrong to do that in general. I also used the example of the President and his family with him too. I think he got it.
I would do it anywhere in Asia, even to people in rural Inner Mongolia if I had to.
And, if I met your father, and he did the white = American = white thing, I will not hesitate to correct him – in English or Mandarin or whatever language it takes to educate in. If he did the “well, it is THEIR country thing, I would correct that too.
If I met your mother, and she did what you just described above, I will also politely and firmly correct her. I will FORGIVE her the first few times, but it will not continue ad infinitum. After about 10 times I will tell her that it makes her looks foolish and uneducated and is offensive to many people.
I have even corrected people in Europe and South America.
OK, when I was younger (I am talking my teens), I probably would not have done that. I probably would have just rolled my eyes and think that the person is not informed. In my pre-teens, I might have even believed it myself. But, by the time I got in my 20s, I virtually never let people do that. No one. At least not directly to me.
The only exception is when I don’t have time (eg, when I am boarding a train that is about to take off.).
I admit that there may be a reason why I am so adamant about this. My maternal grandmother told me as a child that I can never be an American. She said if I married and had kids with a white person and my kids did the same, then maybe, just maybe my grandkids might be able to be considered to be American. She would say that my father might be an American citizen, but he was not American.
I realize now that she was going by the Webster’s dictionary definition of American in 1913, when she grew up.
(http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=American&use1913=on)
I was so depressed about this as a child, but I decided one day to take a stand. And ever since I never let anyone get away with that. Not anyone. That would include your mother and father.
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I would go on to 10,000 times then. 1 million if necessary. This is a subject that I never let those people get away with. Never. NEVER
People don’t do that with me. None of my friends or family members do it around me. If they insist that they must do that, I may be forced to cut off ties with them then after 1000 attempts. I would not hesitate in a heartbeat to do that even to my grandparents.
If they insist on doing that in front of me, then I will progress from being polite and firm to lecturing them or even getting nasty and embarrassing in public, if that what it takes. As I said, TO ME doing that is as serious as using the C-word or N-word. Believe me, your mother would learn not to do that around me. I would educate her. It does work if you are persistent.
Racial perceptions can be wrong and harmful. This one has special meaning for me. I do not give people a pass on that one, even old ladies
I guess that transgression does not have the same meaning for you as it does for me. So you let your mother continue with it. I wouldn’t let my mother do that to me. As I said NEVER
And I disagree that it is only rooted in racial perception. It is also blatantly ignorant.
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@Kiwi,
Why do you castigate others for promulgating the perpetual foreigner stereotype but give a pass to your family members or to Asian immigrants who do that? Why do you give them a pass?
I do not give a pass to any of them.
I will give a “temporary” pass to truly FOB arrivals (say, arrived in the past few months), to 1st or 2nd time tourists or to people who have never set foot in the USA, but even they do not get a permanent pass.
My very own grandmother told me that if I did not marry a white person, not only would my children not be American, I myself would have given up any claim to being American. I nearly threw a sack of sugar at her, but my mother stopped me. My mother then said that, well, maybe if I married an American born Asian, then they could still be considered to be American. I firmly replied NO!!!! They would be American regardless of who I married and they would both have to stop that nonsense ASAP.
My grandmother also said that black people were technically not American either. You can imagine how many arguments I had with her.
I remember several instances where I distinctly told the mandarin speaking Taiwanese immigrant parents of some friends to stop using white = American = white trope in front of me, as well as the “well, it is their country” refrain. Even if I got them to stop doing that in my presence, that was at least a start.
Sorry, no passes for that.
I guess you won’t introduce me to your mom, eh?
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@ Jefe:
It’s good you set people straight from the getgo. I have mentioned on another post about cutting off ties with people who stubbornly choose to be unenlightened. It would be comparable to somebody continually stepping on your toes and speaking up that it’s annoying and uncomfortable maybe painful. And he/she should stop it. Yet, he/she keeps doing it!
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@Kiwi
Q: You know what they call someone who’s put on a completely equal footing as another person, with the same exact resources and the same exact opportunities?
A: A competitor.
It all boils down to keeping your young black competitors handicapped and hobbled, with little to no way of getting out or getting over. It also dovetails nicely with the desire to keep all of your blacks in one convenient place where they can be closely monitored.
And, if necessary, exterminated.
Turns out the U.S. didn’t need to replicate the whole reservation system for black Americans, after all. De facto segregation based on denial of economic resources and social engineering has worked wonders. And as soon as America works out the sticky wicket of gentrification, the inner cities will once more be a white hipster utopia while the minorities are stuck on the suburban outskirts. Shades of gay Paris…
Also, some of the comments are your typical garbage from typical people – probably the same people who bought “I AM DARREN WILSON” t-shirts in bulk. People who don’t give a damn about blacks except when they want to take pot-shots at them. For instance, someone broke out this little Paul Kersey/VDARE chestnut:
A shame the comments were closed, because I wanted to respond:
Whites brought blacks into this country and used their labor to thrive in ways they wouldn’t have if they hadn’t. So therefore, without blacks, whites would have failed. Without whites, blacks would have thrived in their own countries, tribes and societies. The presence of whites created a fail state for blacks.
Likewise, native Americans provided tremendous assistance for helping the early settlers to survive. Without natives, whites would have failed. Without whites, natives would have continued thriving. The presence of whites created a fail state for the natives.
I wonder how he would had countered…
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@ Jefe
I just feel like what it boils down to is that Zoe Saldana is popular because she has white features with brown skin. Hollywood puts imagery, looks & appearance ahead of talent. Its why Brad Pitt as an average actor can be a leading man for 20 years but superior actors like Willem Defoe & Steve Buscemi are relegated to the sidekick or villain and in the public have their looks commented on endlessly. Zoe just happens to be in the racialized lane of the issue. Not to take away from her, but the Lupita Nyongo’s of the world are more attractive and talented yet you only get 1 every few decades at best. Bi-racial women always get the leg up for no reason other than the fact that their muted blackness (in appearance) doesn’t bother whites as much. Its the same reason lighter skinned blacks fare better in the legal system and employment, whites feel less threatened by them.
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@Kiwi,
Just one more thing.
You don’t hesitate to call out the racist tropes and refrains from the white commenters on this blog who are married to or who had previous relationships with Asian women, as well as your “racist” white uncles, but seem to think that Asian Americans, esp. the immigrant ones but also the ones who grew up in the USA have behaviour which somehow cannot be helped or is explained, so they should get a “pass” for their blatant racist behaviour and discourse.
If that is the case, then we could say that my grandmother who grew up in Jim Crow Alabama should get a pass for her blatant racist behaviour and discourse. Or white Americans who grew up and were educated in the post 90s “colour-blind” paradigm should get a pass because of their background or education. Or we should give a pass to blacks and Asians (and whites, of course) bombarded with the Model Minority stereotype growing up who don’t know how to challenge it.
I think at best, we give them a temporary pass, while we educate them.
A couple years ago on this blog, after I mentioned that all Americans, black, white, Asian, Latino, Native should learn about the Vincent Chin incident, just like we all should know about Emmett Till. A black commenter with kind intentions mentioned that she agreed that she should take the time and effort to learn more about Chinese history and culture. I retorted almost immediately that learning about Vincent Chin is not about Chinese history and culture – it is about how Americans are treated in the context of US race relations.
So, Asian Americans should get no more “pass” from blatantly ignorant racist behaviour like the perpetual foreigner stereotype, “white is right”, model minority, etc. than whites or blacks. Since my mid 20s, I have never hesitated to call this out, even to immigrant Asian Americans who need explanation in non-English languages.
Doesn’t it look hypocritical to call out whites, or just whites and blacks and fail to call out Asians on it?
Even foreign Asians who have not had much if any contact with US society do not get a permanent pass either. Educate, Educate, Educate.
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@leigh204
Yes, but what is your advice on how to handle it when it is coming from your parents and grandparents, your boss, your spouse, your teacher or professor, your next door neighbour, or other people in your life where you simply cannot cut off ties with immediately.
And how do you handle people in authority who do that – immigration officials, the police, doctors in the emergency room, etc.?
Yes, I think some compromise and accommodation needs to be done, and you might have to give them a temporary “pass” while you work on it.
But for me, no pass is permanent. If the problem is so serious and incorrigible, it might even require breaking ties with your own parents, your job or course of study, or your spouse. I can think of cases where this would be the only choice.
To me, the situation in the USA was so unbearable, I even seriously thought about breaking ties with my own country.
Or we could choose the “Educate” method. The internet has created new opportunities to do that.
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@A,
I decided to continue discussion about Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone here:
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/zoe-saldana-to-play-nina-simone/#comment-277671)
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@Kiwi,
If it is not ignorance, then it is willful obtuseness.
If you can address our willfully obtuse racist commenters married to Asian women, then you should be able to address your willfully obtuse parents. To do that selectively with one group and not with another is being dishonest and hypocritical.
And their avoidance to express their blatantly racist views in front of you IS a start. I 1000% (actually 1,000,000,000%) disagree with you that it is useless or doesn’t work. It doesn’t work ALL the time, but it does work most of the time. If they persist, you can progress to a no tolerance policy with your parents.
Correct — in and of itself that will not magically cure the entire disease. But it will eat away at it bit by bit.
You can proceed to the next level by showing how foolish, uneducated and offensive they appear with that behaviour.
Focus on behaviour first. The hearts and minds take time.
I did not allow my parents to act that way in front of me, even with solidified encrusted racist images in their minds. And given their situation, they should have known better.
I do not completely forget that my mother neglected to correct her parents’ racist attitudes, even after I reminded her to do so. I NEVER stopped reminding her and pointing out to her when she did that, even when she denied it.
Her parents told me that I was NO GOOD and America would never accept me. They brought up that Asian atrocity 5h1t with me. They brought up the dehumanizing rhetoric of Vietnam. So be it. My brother joined white gangs that harrassed and terrorized blacks. yet they said that my brother was a “good boy” on the path to becoming a proper American, even after some of my brothers’ white gang members got thrown in jail. Are you going to say that the problem was not “ignorance”, but the “perceived interconnectedness of race and nation”?
Good grief!
They don’t get a “pass”.
If you don’t work on rectifying the blatantly racist attitudes of your willfully obtuse parents and other people close to you, it will be disingenuous for you to condemn the racist attitudes of the willfully obtuse commenters on this blog.
I didn’t say it would be easy. I didn’t say it would be a fast process. But never give in. Don’t invent excuses to stop.
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@ Jefe:
To answer the first question you posed earlier, I have always set people straight including a few friends and family members. Thankfully, they get it the first time around, but then again, the people I know personally tend to be well informed.
As for persons of authority, I also have corrected some even though I know it will not sit well with them. If you say nothing, these people think they can continue with their racist views, and yes, sometimes they persist, but at least, they know where I stand.
And I agree about education. Knowledge is power.
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@Leigh204,
When I was in my late teens, early 20s, I would often stay silent, but after that I decided that it was better to set people straight, esp. the people closest to you in your life.
I used to have terrible experiences with immigration officials. They accused me of using a fake passport to enter the country, and they interrogated me to the nth degree, sometimes up to an hour. One even asked me for the street address of the hospital I was born in. Another asked me who my relatives were that I was visiting in the USA (sorry, I don’t need an explanation why I am returning to my home country). I was upset once when I was travelling with a friend who held a Malaysian passport, and he sailed right through immigration and I was brought to a back room for interrogation – they bent my passport out of shape and said it looked fake. A few of them apologized afterwards, telling me that they have to be careful that people are not trying to enter the country illegally. Most didn’t apologize.
I can just imagine what those people had to go through 100 years ago, when it could take weeks to enter the country, even if you were a citizen.
I only had one ugly experience with the police when they caught me entering a street where white policeman were having a shootout in a black neighborhood.
I also was brought back to immigration backrooms in China, Philippines and Paraguay. What to do when? But at least I finally exited those situations.
BTW, great that you started a blog!
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@ Jefe:
I’m so sorry for what you went through. I can’t imagine. It’s understandable why you feel so strongly about confronting others on their racist views. And you’re right. Remaining silent accomplishes nothing. That’s why it’s important, despite the risk, to stand up and say your peace. Not saying anything means approval. Oh, and thanks regarding my blog. I don’t have a lot of posts, but what I have so far is a start. lol. 😀
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http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/27/spike-lee-rips-gentrification-refuses-backdown-backlash/
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@Herneith
I found this in the related section of that post;
http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/02/27/empire-producer-lee-daniels-just-explained-why-hes-happy-to-be-a-sell-out-in-hollywood/
Lee Daniels has officially ascended to a level that was previously held exclusively by Clarence Thomas-The Uber Coon
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@A: Yep, Lee Daniels threw Monique under the bus.
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http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/lupita-nyongo-fetish-hollywood-black-actress/531e212278c90a1a73000e52
This was a bit old but nonetheless concerning to me. Marc Lamont Hill made a comment that he was concerned the white media was fetishizing Lupita Nyongo like they do with many black women. His concern was based around the history of darker beauties having to take a backseat to their lighter counterparts and the white medias history of building up a celebrity to tear them down. I agree with his statements and would add on that this problem is exacerbated for black celebrities and female celebrities which would place Lupita in a particularly troublesome double bind. Many white men since slavery *have* fetishized black women and in light of this fact I thought Marc Lamont Hills commentary was simply what everyone was thinking but didn’t have the platform to say.
But his earnest efforts brought him attacks by online black female bloggers…….Huh? In light of the conversations of black men not supporting or defending black women I thought that this would be welcomed by most and once again he only stated the obvious but when he invited them to HuffingtonPost live 2 of the 3 women simply attacked him and the 3rd said he had no right to comment on black women’s beauty. All of the commenters are calling him hateful, misogynistic, and generalizing black men as “foot soldiers of white supremacy against the image of black women” This is strange to me as I don’t know a single black man on or offline who doesn’t find Lupita stunning or supports the natural hair movement.
Marc Lamont Hill is one of the few black men in media who didn’t coon to get his position nor does he to keep it. He’s one of the few individuals black, white or otherwise in the public sphere who I believe is actually deserving of the lofty term intellectual. Its obvious he thinks before he speaks which in the modern day is welcome as most media figures have to be extreme and bombastic about age old talking points to get noticed instead of open, fluid and thoughtful dialogue which makes you look at the issue from a different perspective. In other words he someone that we need more, not less of. I’m not saying all black women, just the ones who critiqued him, but if someone takes his concern over a black woman as him being hateful towards them then can black men ever win with this crowd? Did I go to sleep and wake up in Bizarro World?
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@ Mary
That idiot had the nerve to use “reverse racism” I never thought I’d see the day when a BLACK person used that ridiculous oxymoronic term. I haven’t been this pissed in a while about a celebrity buck dancing but he took it to a new extreme.
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I like Marc Lamont Hill too.
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I am also a fan of Marc Lamont Hill.
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We should have a post on both Lee Daniels and on Marc Lamont Hill.
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They sound like modern minstrel acts!
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Just staring at my computer screen just now and realized it’s the second of March. It’s been exactly three years since my mom passed away from cancer. How quickly time flies. *sigh*
I love and miss you, mama. ❤
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@A
I read the comments on your link and the blacks that were completely in the dark had the most to say. He is a Hollywood whore. He will sell out whoever to make his money. Smh
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RIP to Leonard Nimoy. I loved the sentiment of “Live Well and Prosper”
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I just finished Eddie Huang’s memoir, pretty entertaining. Now can anyone explain his 1yr sabbatical to China to expunge his felony record through exchange program agreement with China & US government. Must be nice to have that type of privilege.
@A
I think both Marc Lamont Hill and the bloggers had great points. It was definitely heated. Gina and Kristylyn weren’t playing! LOL They weren’t backing down. We are definitely passionate when it comes to matters that affect us *black women*
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@A: Many of us think he’s a buck dancing coon but we are eating up Empire.
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@A; I did give Lee Daniels the side eye when he started talking about “reverse racism” It was a “wtf” moment. I he is kind of a nut job of sorts.
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@Mary Burrell
“Many of us think he’s a buck dancing coon but we are eating up Empire.”—If it was not for the amazing acting line up I doubt I would be looking at Empire. It is most certainly a guilty pleasure.
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@Maria,
I just wanted to say that I’ve been in a mental hospital and I know that the abuses you talk about are common. Those places are evil. Our society is so evil that any situation in which people in power are not held accountable and their actions are not recorded/open to outside observers is a situation in which people are going to be abused, all the more so if they are dehumanized by society, such as “criminals” in prisons, homeless people, mentally ill (or LABELED as “mentally ill”), etc.
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@Maria
I’ve never worked in healthcare. I was in a mental hospital for a few days because I got 5150ed a few years ago. It was a horrible experience where I was abused by the police, ER, and mental hospital. I can’t remember right off the bat all the horrible things they did, but for example:
–I kept requesting that the ER give me information on my rights on being 5150ed and they never did
–I refused to give a urine or blood sample (which they needed to get a mental hospital to accept me) so they thought up this elaborate plan where a doctor told me he was going to force me to go to a mental hospital and he wasn’t going to tell me anything about my rights. He then immediately left the room. I was panicked so I followed him out and went to the desk requesting to call a relative. They started this shit about how they wouldn’t let me use the phone and I had to go back to my room. In my room they told me I had to sit still on the bed or that they would forcibly hold me down. They brought a bunch of people to stare at me while threateningly putting on latex gloves. Since I did sit still on the bed they were able to use that as proof that I was “directable” and get a mental hospital to accept me without a urine test. I was afraid of getting jumped again by them since I had just gotten jumped by 3 police officers and sexually violated by an officer in my home. The doctor who started that sh*t came to visit me soon after and I made it clear I could see exactly what kind of sh*tty person he was. He was such a coward that he ran out of the room so fast he tripped.
–in the mental hospital I got constantly bullied and humiliated by the staff, just because they were sh*tty people who enjoyed getting to abuse people without any accountability. I wrote a complaint about one woman and after that when I requested a complaint form the staff and supervisors made fun of me, the supervisors refused to talk to me, and the staff even stopped writing their names on the board so I couldn’t identify them.
–I had an injury because the police sadistically squeezed the handcuffs on my wrists, so I had cut marks and numbness in my hands. I told the doctor in the mental hospital and he didn’t care or examine me at all, saying “that happens when you resist”. I kept asking the nurses to let me see a doctor about it and I never got to. When I got out I went to the ER and the doctor told me I should have iced it within the first few days to avoid damage.
–the psychiatrist assigned to me was an assh*le old white (European immigrant) man who was constantly negging me to try to manipulate me to do what he wanted and said practically everything I did was a sign of mental illness (for example if I look around while we talk I’m mentally ill). When I threw his BS back in his face (reframing, as we activists all do with oppressors) he would get up and leave to manipulate me. I saw through that so the next day when he came I told him flat out that I didn’t want to talk to him anymore. Assh*le left humiliated.
–the things you said about people being overdrugged is true. I didn’t understand this until my roommate explained what was going on, but then I’d walk the halls looking in the rooms and I did see all these people just laying on their beds all day like zombies.
–I refused to be medicated. This nurse came in one night holding out medication for me and never told me what it was or what it was for, which is illegal. Since I refused the staff kept bullying me talking to me like I was an insect and telling me that I needed to cooperate and take my medication. Since I wouldn’t take the medication I wasn’t allowed to eat the good food (buffet) in the cafeteria.
–my roommate let me read her court paperwork and I saw with my own eyes that they had held a trial to forcibly medicate her without her presence or requiring her lawyer to talk to her.
–there was one pay phone you could use to call relatives and it was right in front of the staff desk and they had messed with the volume so you had to shout and they could hear everything you said. I tried to get out of this by speaking in Spanish (I’m Mexican American) and they wrote on my records that I spoke Spanish on the phone and brought it up in a hearing as evidence against letting me go (WTF!!!?)
–they wrote lies on my records saying that I had yelled at the staff using the f word. I never did that and that part of my record was written in juvenile handwriting with bad grammar. More lies to use against me in my hearings, probably payback for submitting a complaint against staff.
–one of the ugliest, soul-killing things that happened: I was asking a male staff member who was rude to me to see his badge (so that I could know his name to complain later). He refused to show it to me and said that I had been bothering him about it for hours (another lie. I had asked for a minute or two.) There was a young employee who was standing nearby watching who had been really nice to me so far so I turned to him and asked, “Haven’t you been standing right there for the past 5 minutes? Didn’t you see what happened?” He said nothing and just looked away with an embarrassed look on his face. I would never do something like that to someone else.
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–This same male staff member who lied to and about me later on said quietly to me “You’re paranoid” to harass me. I told him calmly, “That’s what you would like me to think”.
–I first had a hearing with this white woman who horribly bullied me, laughing at and/or invalidating everything I said. She refused to let me go because I didn’t have a relative present at the hearing (WTF!!!?). The man who was appointed to be my advocate at the hearing was a horrible useless coward. These things were show trials. This was the hearing where they brought up my speaking Spanish on the phone and also the lie about me cussing out the staff.
–they kept the mental hospital freezing with air conditioning, and all you’re given to wear are thin hospital gowns. My roommate and I would huddle under the covers in our beds, and the first time the psychiatrist came to talk to me I was shaking and speaking with chattering teeth. I also hadn’t slept for over 24 hours. Abu Ghraib type torture interrogation conditions.
–you’re severely sleep deprived because the staff keep waking you up and because there is constant noise
–finally they appointed me a lawyer who was horribly rude to me, telling me that she herself thought that I was psychotic because I asked to see her badge and continually negging me. Again, I would never treat another person like that.
–I asked the psychiatrist to let me see my records so I could know what I would be accused of in my trial and he rudely refused. When I later was released and requested my records I found he had lied in them that he had explained what medication he was offering me and why (=he broke the law).
–yet another conspiracy to manipulate me: the day of the trial there were all new staff members working. I was preparing my notes for the trial in my room and a staff member told me I should wait near their desk. No reason given why. I went out there and my psychiatrist came by trying to talk to me. I repeated that I didn’t want to talk to him anymore and he was laughing at me and harassing me. He left and then another European immigrant man comes up telling me that he’s a psychiatrist and he’s going to be my new doctor. He takes me to another room to talk and I realize he’s wasting my time with BS so I told him politely that I had to prepare for my trial and left. Later I saw in my records he wrote (with extremely poor English) that I was “very disorganized” and that he agreed with the first psychiatrist that I should be medicated. So just a scheme to protect the first psychiatrist for recommending I be medicated when I really didn’t need to be.
–at the trial: old white male judge, pompous, ignorant, arrogant. My psychiatrist told bare faced lies about me under oath and the judge didn’t bat an eye (because: old white men’s club). I had to lie and pretend I respected the judge and that I agreed that I was “depressed”. He ruled that I couldn’t be forcibly medicated but very condescendingly told me I had a problem like diabetes and it was nothing to be ashamed of.
–after the trial: I wanted to stay and talk to my father who was there since I could hardly ever talk to him in the mental hospital. The psychiatrist kept harassing me to leave with him even though I repeatedly told him I wanted to speak to my father. I walked back to the mental hospital with him and a nice nurse. He kept asking me if I would give him permission to speak with my father and I kept telling him no. Finally I told him, “I’ve told you no several times now and you really need to respect that.” I also brought up the lies he had told about me under oath and told him that I thought that showed a horrible lack of integrity for a doctor to tell such lies about a patient. He became infuriated and stormed off saying he was going to try to get me kept more days even though I won in court. When I got out my father told me the psychiatrist went to him without my permission trying to get him to talk about me (incriminate me) but my father refused.
–since I won the trial all of a sudden these rude staff members started being nice to me since they knew that my complaints couldn’t be invalidated anymore. When I later got my records it was the same: every day I was “paranoid” with “angry affect”. As soon as I won the trial I was “normal” with “normal affect”.
–when I got out and requested my ER records there was no mention of the conspiracy to prove me “directable”. The doctor lied that he had examined me when he never did. When I was in the ER I requested to be examined by a doctor because I wanted my injuries from the police to be documented so I could submit a complaint. They sent in another doctor who treated me like I was a joke. When I got out I found out that she was a student who wasn’t even qualified to document things so I had nothing to submit to the police. They knowingly assigned her to me when I told them I wanted to document my police injuries.
–there’s even more that I’m just remembering. I could go on and on. But something really disturbing is that when I got out I googled the mental hospital and found that there had been several recent stories in the local newspaper about drugged out patients being raped by staff and other patients and about patients being killed by staff (Eric Garner type ignoring the person couldn’t breathe).
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As I’ve mentioned, the people in charge, at the top, were always white. But several of the people I’ve mentioned who abused me were Black American, African immigrants, Asian Americans, a Middle Eastern American. There were also some people I mentioned or not who were kind who were African immigrants, Middle Eastern, Asian American, and white. I’ve been harmed and abused by every kind of person and I’ve known good people of every ethnicity.
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@Maria
I’ve heard a mental hospital staff member call into a radio show complaining about all the abuse and asking for advice about what to do about it.
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Spring forward time change set clocks forward
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@Maria
I’m reading your account over again:
–there were no clocks in my MH either, and at the first hearing the bully woman was giving me crap for not knowing what time things I talked about happened. I pointed out there were no clocks and she asked me as if I was an insect, “Was it light or dark outside?”
–the drugs they tried to trick and then court order me into taking were psychotropic, even though the psychiatrist couldn’t even come up with a real diagnosis for me. Risperidal (sp?) and others.
–I’d agree that psychiatry/mental hospitals/the courts work together as a form of social control with the aim to terrorize people into not speaking out, not fighting abuse, doing whatever those in authority want out of fear.
Do you mind explaining more about what happened between you and ICE and CPEP? I’m just learning about these organizations. I recently received some info about fighting them. Hopefully these links will be useful to you and others:
“ICE Out of California Implementation Guide: Building Upon the California Trust Act” (toolkit)
https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/257825789?access_key=key-m2HXD7VvfV9pbj3OLHgJ&allow_share=false&escape=false&show_recommendations=false&view_mode=slideshow
“ICE Out of California” (website)
“This website is designed to help advocates and community organizers prevent deportations by disentangling local law enforcement from immigration enforcement and push ICE out of California.”
http://www.iceoutofca.org/
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Happy International Women’s Day to all the ladies, mothers, aunts, sisters, daughters, grandmothers all over the world. “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.”
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Happy International Women’s Day to all the women skilled at making a way out of no way because we always have to.
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SHM at the cowardly pack mentality of those morons at the fraternity jerks at the University of Oklahoma.
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@abagond @maria
Maria is welcome to my email but I’m also happy to continue this conversation on this thread so that others can learn about the abuse that happens in mental hospitals. I can’t write more today but I will tomorrow. Hugs.
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@MB,
The Univ of OK fraternity incident made the headline news here overseas.
Almost daily now, there is some news headlines here about US racism incidents. The more people I talk to seem to start to view the USA as racist and violent.
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@jefe: Those people you talk too are correct
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to^^
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@Maria
Gaslighting is a good term for what was going on. But basically they were doing everything possible to make someone lose it (really go crazy), or do something understandable like losing their temper that they could use as evidence that that person was mentally ill. No matter what I did, I’d lose. If I reported that staff were whispering I was paranoid and lying about events and time they would say that those things never happened and use that as evidence that I was mentally ill. At the same time all of their lies and tricks were making me scared to trust everyone so that I’d do things like ask to see my lawyer’s badge that she could say were paranoid and psychotic. At the first hearing I told the woman that the staff was being horribly disrespectful to me and making fun of me and she acted like I was the stupidest person ever for saying that.
I learned from the experience to never talk to anyone in the mental health field ever again. Just as I never talk to the police without a lawyer, I would never talk to a psychiatrist or mental health worker.
I ended up telling off the staff too. First I tried doing what they wanted since they kept hinting that if I did they would let me out. But really the only way that that works is if you take the drugs. They don’t care about anything else. Once I realized that “good behavior” got me nowhere I started calling them on their BS.
These nurses came into our room in the morning and were making fun of me for how long I stayed in the bathroom. My roommate told them it really wasn’t any of their business. I lost my temper and yelled at one that there are 3 groups in society who are especially vulnerable to abuse: children, the elderly, and people in mental hospitals, and that she had better pray to God that she never ends up in our place. She said that there were video cameras to protect us and I asked her, who’s the only one who has access to the video? She left angry and glaring at me. Then my roommate and I started laughing and laughing. “We’re such bitches.” she said, but I felt strong and like I had some power again.
I wish a reporter WOULD go undercover at a mental hospital and do an expose of the abuse that goes on there.
How the hell can you claim have a legitimate trial without the person concerned present? That’s what they did to my roommate. And even if you are present, my lawyer was acting like a scared little girl when contradicting my psychiatrist. As long as I’m not the one held in a MH and labeled at mentally ill, I’m not scared at all to tell off a sh*tty white man like that. I see people like that for what they are, not worth much.
That’s amazing that you could still fight back with psychotropic drugs in you. They had to drug you to beat you and they still couldn’t. Cowards.
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@Mary
I finally sat down and read up on the Oklahoma thing. I was reading Eric striker’s response video to it and his apology. I later read the comments and whites are saying he is racist and classless. Now the funny part of why he is racist is not because of a racial slur, but because he said white mf.
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Shame on black athletes and celebrities with white mates. You have turned your backs on your own race. Your riches will not be inherited by your race because your mixed offspring will marry white, thus enriching our rich oppressors. Do you hate yourselves that much?
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Maria, is there anything we can do to help you?
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@Maria
I think they wanted the urine sample so that they would have proof that it was safe to inject me with sedatives and/or psychotropic drugs if I “got out of hand”. I refused to give the sample because I hoped it would protect me from being drugged against my will. I think that’s why they performed the whole charade at the ER that ended with them writing on my records that I was “redirectable”. No MH would take me without the urine sample because they couldn’t legally drug me, but if I’m proven “redirectable” then they assume they won’t have to drug me. The ER just wanted to get me out of their responsibility and into a MH. Soon after the “redirectable” charade they found a MH that would take me and transferred me there.
For everybody reading, if you’ve ever seen the movie Changeling with Angelina Jolie, when she’s put in the mental hospital that’s exactly how MHs are today, minus the electroshock. The police and psychiatrists collude like in the movie too.
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@ Maria
Thank you for your words of encouragement. What kind of things would you like me to do posts on?
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@Maria
I had forgotten, but the psychiatrist prescribed me the psychotropic meds anyway even though the judge ruled I couldn’t be forcibly drugged, and I had made it quite clear that I was completely opposed to taking psychotropic meds. Of course I never filled the prescriptions. I was upset that those prescriptions would be on my medical records and complained to Kaiser psychiatry, but of course the old white man in charge of the department wrote a short dismissive letter back saying that the psychiatrist was just being a good doctor…lots of other sh*t I could say about Kaiser and the Kaiser psychiatric department.
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@Maria
I hope you don’t mind me secretly stalking your posts. I have not commented, but I most certainly am reading them.
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Interesting how people’s fears so often hinge on the very things that they have done to others… wouldn’t you agree?
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^^^The robot looks like a walking penis.
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Freudian perhaps… they know that they have acted like dicks… so..
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@Kiwi
I am going to have to write you several posts because I am doing a bit of in and out right now. I do however want to lay this all out on the table.
I can honestly say I was hurt by what you said. I have not been this hurt since sondis and I got into a fight and I regretted every bit of that. That is partially why after reading what you said I did not return to respond in anger. I did not want to treat you in a way I would regret or a way that I would not want someone to treat me. Though the hurt stems from YOU saying it and not so much what you said.
The reason I am not shocked or up in arms about what you said is because I visit other blogs where blacks have said similar. In the past I have challenged that and for some I should have challenged you then, but I chose not to. Mainly because of my false sense of a commenter alliance, but also a little indifference to what you said after having heard it so many times.
I agree with legion on that as well, but at times I feel I am guilty of it. Even though I don’t like what thwack says, I have been one to claim him as not black on many occasions. Thwack is not the only one. To be honest with you, maybe not on this thread, but on others it is likely certain pictures would upset or set some blacks off. This is just a reality. That is why I feel the movement is good not just to show white people, but remind black people of who they are.
I want to be honest in saying that I had not plans on getting involved. When you made what I thought was you saying “why is no one bothering to defend you” I felt bad. At the time I also had no clue what you said and was only looking to defend you being called a troll. I also wanted to get you to ignore because it really was no way of defending what you said. Though I am now being accused on something so ridiculous that I could bust a gut laughing. 🙂
I agree with Linda. You should not apologize. That is how you feel and you should simply stand by it. If you don’t stand for something you fall for anything…..
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@ Pumpkin
I am having trouble connecting to the Internet. I will answer your emails tomorrow.
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Kiwi..welcome to my world, brother! 🙂
black in America is a touchy subject — you see how I got called “anti-American” because I’m Jamaican
From all the spats that have gone on with this issue, you should have known to leave it alone.
You have to remember that “when in Rome, be like the Romans” — in the USA, black and mixed-race equals “black” — when discussing race with black Americans, you just have to roll with that
The same way if you were on a Jamaican forum discussing mixed Chinese/Indian/black/white people, we don’t call them “black”, so you would have to roll with the labels we use.
labels/racial designation changes from country to country but it’s the majority that dictates how their minorities will be treated.
As I’ve mentioned time and time again, the “African” slave/descendant problem was handled differently by each European colonizer:
The White Americans used segregation/societal Apartheid and genocide against the African (and Native Americans) – they purposely created a binary racial classification because they wanted white-ness to be “pure”
The Spanish were more open and creative by using the pen and sex to create a new “race” of mixed mestizo/mulattos/pardos, etc –their goal was to wash out the African and Native American. The Spanish promoted the philosophy that people can mix their way into “whiteness” physically and mentally
Even in the Caribbean, the Europeans did indeed create a “mixed-race” category by recognizing their mixed-children and setting them as a third race- and this is the reason why in most Caribbean countries, the mixed-race are also the upper class and are mostly running the country.
but look at the damage that this has caused–prime example, Dominican Republic and Haiti. Right now, Dominican Republic is deporting Haitians and denying “black” people citizenship… smh
that’s why Race in America is complicated– for the reason you mentioned– white Americans distanced themselves from their mixed-race children and forced them to identify as black — to black Americans, this is the Status Quo
black Americans can question someone’s “blackness” all day long–that is a internal social issue that won’t be solved anytime soon.
Look at how Congress and those i’diot Republicans treat Obama. Do you think if he started calling himself “brown” or stated he was “not black”, that his white haters would change their minds and not treat him like sh’t? — No
at this point, even if a mixed-race category was to be official in the American census, as you just mentioned with Asians, white people/society will still be prejudiced towards them…. this is evident in how they treat Mexicans and other Latinos.
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@Maria
I completely agree with you about the police. It’s completely clear by now that they are not here for us at all, isn’t it? You have people videorecording them killing innocent people and even then they aren’t held accountable. They can just look at you being Black and assume that you are poor or only middle class and that you don’t have any powerful connections, no one among your friends or family who is a lawyer, probably not even many who went to college, and most of the time they’d be right. The same thing for me as a Mexican American, and that sure as hell is right. So we can’t hold them accountable and they can do whatever they want to us. The only people whose interests they really protect and serve are wealthy white people. If they can tell you are poor/homeless/mentally ill by your appearance or police records then God help you.
Your advice is good. I do live in fear of getting thrown into a mental hospital again, and now I don’t have anyone to help me at all so it’s just me and my wits.
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@Kiwi
After talking with my husband and really taking in your post, I actually have to applaud you for taking notice of the words of so many different people.
What you said may not have been an easy pill To swallow, but I wonder if it did not just need to be said? I think it simply did. I hate that you received the wrath you did.
As Linda said, it is an internal issue, but it is one I wish was easy to work on.
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@ Kiwi
This is an awesome comment:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread-2/#comment-279049
If you want to make it into a post (480 to 520 words), or want me to, I am game.
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@kiwi @sharinalr @linda
I found these tweets recently about exclusion among Asian Americans that I thought was really profound:
“Who gets called Twinkie or banana? The E. Asians you want nothing to do with.
Either coz they collude with White supremacy (or so you claim, person of impeccable ethics) or their Asianness is different from yours
And I add the disclaimer to colluding with White supremacy coz it’s rarely people who really do that get targeted in that way
What’s more common is for it to be used as a form of policing. Most often on those marginalized by in-community gender & sexuality politics
Coz that woman doesnt see enough of the right men to really be Asian. Coz those people are attracted to the same sex and that’s “not Asian”
Add to the fact that these terms are employed by White people all the time to erase their violence & our realities. To “compliment” us.
“Yeah that’s my Asian friend. He’s not weird tho! He’s a Twinkie! He’s just like us on the inside!”
then there’s the chauvinistic nationalism that makes every Asian in the diaspora “White on the inside,” erasing oppression to uphold a myth
A patriarchal, abusive myth that posits people left their homelands out of disloyalty instead of fleeing violence
A chauvinistic nationalism reproduced in the diaspora by fools who think they’re anointed coz of linguistic & cultural knowledge
But of course, without any real analysis of why it is people lack linguistic and cultural knowledge. Just “disloyalty”
None of that is about survivance or resistance. It’s just recreating hierarchies and perpetuating violence.
It’s shutting out the people you want nothing to do with bc the reality of who they are doesn’t align w your narrow ideas
It’s exerting control over people’s bodies because they’re not respectable, and thus by being associated w you they sully you
And in the inverse, calling people “banana” as proof of radical credentials is just a refusal to hold our own accountable for anti Blackness
“I’m not like them. They’re bananas. I don’t have to be accountable for them.” Except you do. You don’t get to brush them off
And then there’s the violence of reinscribing Asian bodies as at the service of White ones. Of shaming colonized people for colonialism
Coz when you call someone that you’re basically saying they’ve internalized too much oppression to deserve to be associated w you
You are affirming that they are in fact lesser. Nothing but a cheap knock-off.”
–Ungrateful Oriental @Hermit_Hwarang Mar 14
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^^
The same thing happens among Mexican Americans. It’s not culturally acceptable to be ashamed of being Mexican American. We laugh at people like that as a form of resistance. I was raised that we were Mexican American and that’s a great thing to be and if people don’t think so that’s because they’re stupid and racist. That protects you from racism as a child, and it supports you throughout your life because other Mexican Americans share this value and support each other: There’s nothing wrong with us, we value each other. But as he says, that’s also laughing at people for internalizing too much oppression. And the internalized oppression “proud” people is still there, and it has to find a target, so we find people among ourselves to Other. I suffered a lot in life when I was younger because I am not a native Spanish speaker and that is unacceptable for a lot of Mexican Americans who are privileged enough to be completely bilingual. Mexicans, other Mexican Americans, white people, even other people of color, and even my own family and parents gave me shit for that. My parents’ generation who grew up before the Civil Rights Movement couldn’t help that they were punished in kindergarten for speaking Spanish in a traumatizing way. If Mexicans/Mexican Americans look down on native English speaking Mexican Americans they are hating us for our weakness against U.S. colonization/their/our weakness against Spanish colonization and kicking us out of the group the same way they/we kick out Indigenous Mexicans for not speaking Spanish/not speaking Spanish good enough.
I still forgave/accepted. They can’t tear us Mexicans and Mexican Americans apart.
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@Kiwi,
Wow, so many epiphanies! Must not have had many Asians in the library that day! 😛
So, you can imagine what it is like to experience this day in and day out for one’s entire life. It takes a lifetime to figure out how to navigate that. I do not make those things up. I am not surprise that more don’t snap!
So, now you are now getting how it is not just whites who police racial identity, but Asians and blacks are also constantly weighing in on it too. Even multiracial people police other multiracial people on THEIR identities. On Eurasian forums, I even saw people debating whether it is appropriate to feature Tiger Woods on a hapa website.
It is sad that I felt I had to leave the USA to find a higher level of peace of mind. But I have met multiracial people from other countries who found it easier to navigate their identities in the USA. Maybe it is easier to do that if you see yourself as a foreigner first, THEN multiracial.
It wasn’t until after I moved away from the USA that I first heard Tiger Woods call himself “Cablinasian”. I realize that takes a great deal of courage. I have to applaud him for that. It is not a character flaw. I wish I had had the courage to do that.
Likewise, you can see how much courage it takes for Ne-Yo just to admit publicly that he is Chinese and Black. Just saying that attracts so much wrath and ire. Obviously, he is not doing that to attract greater acceptance from either Chinese Americans or blacks. He is doing that to be true to himself.
In the 1970s, groups of people in Southern Maryland who had previously lived as “tri-racial isolates” in separate communities for generations decided to resurrect their identities as Piscataway Indians. If I were to hazard a guess, they were probably about 1/2 white, 3/8 black and 1/8 Native American. Most looked mulatto, a few did look like they could be half- Native American, and a few could almost pass as white. Some looked unmistakably black. When I was in my high school, some schoolmates switched their identity to American Indian and received severe scorn, condemnation and hostility from both blacks and whites, students and teachers, over their decision. I realize it was not just about distancing themselves from whites and blacks – they had been doing that already. It was also an act of courage.
You have been rather scathing about people’s identities. You have been part of that policing force too. Maybe without the context of your epiphanies, you could not explain your comments on the Black Out day post.
About 10 years ago, I found Maria P.P. Root’s Bill of Rights for People of Mixed Heritage:
(http://www.drmariaroot.com/doc/BillOfRights.pdf)
100 years ago whites dictated racial identities. That explains why blacks were more accepting of their mixed racial kin, and why such persons felt compelled to subsume their non-black, especially their white identities. Even Chinese American men were much more accepting of their community who had formed families with white, black or Mexican women. They knew that getting a Chinese wife was almost impossible, and they knew that the mixed Chinese children would not be accepted by whites.
Both multiracial blacks and Asians were compelled to distance themselves socially from their white relatives, while at the same time trying to make themselves more acceptable and respectable to whites. That was the force operating in the Jim Crow era. And as I showed before, in order to gain more white status, some Asian Americans were forced to distance themselves from their black in-laws and mixed black relatives.
Malcolm X had a white grandfather, but stated in his autobiography that he despised every drop of that white rapist’s blood in him. Bruce Lee had a white grandfather, yet he was too “oriental” even to play roles depicting Asians. His wife Linda said in an interview that that treatment had an particular effect on him as he knew he was part white. Yet I have also read that he received scorn from Chinese, esp. those in HK when he was growing up, for being part white.
But after several U.S. wars in Asia, as well as the repeal of Jim Crow segregation, anti-miscegenation laws and racist immigration laws, a new generation of mixed race people came of age, and a new consciousness started to develop among those who had previously subsumed their prior identities.
But, at the same time, it led to increased racial policing not only by whites, but by everyone else as well. Blacks, Asians, Latinos weighed in on who could be what.
This led to a growing multiracial activist movement in the 1980s and 1990s, enabling people to feel the courage to do the very things listed in the Bill of Rights above. So, the next time you think multiracial people are delusional, just look back there.
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Despite the epiphanies above, you know I am still waiting for two more epiphanies from you.
They relate to the following posts by Abagond.
1. Racist Uncles
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/racist-uncles/)
It is common white practice to pin racist behaviour and attitudes on particular racist uncles or on people who remind you of racist uncles (like willfully obtuse white men married to Asian women), yet give a pass to others who are interpreted as exhibiting “normal” behaviour, thereby reinforcing the U.S. racial hierarchy (such as the model minority) and white supremacist social structure.
You must recognize that even less extreme behaviour and attitudes are still racist. They need to be acknowledged or even called out.
Yes, but not only whites, it seems.
I think blacks have a similar, maybe reverse situation, i.e., relatives who are “Uncle Toms”. They are so fawning to whites that even most blacks must call them out. But, the more normal behaviour of rented negroes or even respectability politics gets a pass.
2. “My family never owned slaves”
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/my-family-never-owned-slaves/)
In your case, it might be the corollary “My parents are not even white.”
– – > By saying “My parents are not even white, they are trying to buy themselves a pass from American white supremacy / racial hierarchical structure, both past and present.
– – > You do not have to be white to benefit from white supremacist racial social hierarchy – either then or now.
– – > A non-white American (distancing themselves from Blacks and Latinos) saying “My family is not white” is like the daughter of a Mafia boss wearing her diamonds and pearls and saying she never murdered anyone or shook anyone down for money. As if the diamonds and pearls fell from the sky. (This is true if relevant person is benefiting from exercising things like the model minority stereotype which reinforces white supremacy.)
Maybe these epiphanies will just pop out one day.
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@Abagond,
I don’t know if you will wait for Kiwi to draft something, but if you draft something, maybe you can call it something like “The Race Police”, a force in US society that seeks to enforce racial identity and politics by controlling
– the scope and boundaries of whiteness
– multiracial identity
– acceptable blackness (or Asianness, etc.)
The Race Police are not just white people. Blacks and Asians weigh heavily in on this, especially the monoracially identified, but multiracials themselves also sometimes join the force.
I tried to explain this a couple years ago, but maybe now you and the rest of the readers are more ready for it now.
I also thought about drafting something on the Multiracial Activist Movement, but I was afraid that I would have to do a lot of research first. Maybe it would just be enough to introduce the concept first.
Maybe I can find stuff here:
(http://multiracial.com/site/)
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Typo above
I am not surprise that more don’t snap!
–>
I am surprised that more don’t snap!
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“What Feminism Has Taught Me About Leadership in the Immigrant Rights Movement”
http://www.latinorebels.com/2015/02/23/what-feminism-has-taught-me-about-leadership-in-the-immigrant-rights-movement/
“I recognize being undocumented as a major form of oppression in our current political climate, but not the only one. We are not the first to be oppressed, nor do we have “the corner” on oppression. Often, we don’t even have a clue as to what others have endured. Our destiny as queer men, as people of color, as undocumented people, is tied to that of other brave oppressed people who are willing to fight.”
“Feminism has taught me what it means to be aware of how we lead: with strategic and resilient rage, rather than with aimless and self-righteous anger. Patriarchy thrives in our work when we make it about individualism, fundamentalism and domination. It is important to have self- awareness, to know our strengths and our gaps, so when the time comes to take bold risks we are fortified in each other’s power and fabulosity.”
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Otis Byrd in Claiborne County,MS
What is your verdict about this man who had been hanging from a tree for 2 weeks? lynching or suicide?
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~New Topic~
So about 7 years back when I was working at a juvenile counseling youth sex offenders, we had group of college students interning with us. They were were to come up with a study based on their observations. When sitting in on a round table with the interns after they read the files, many were shocked that almost 80% of the youth sex offenders in the system were white. They were also shocked at the number of them whom were involved in sexual abuse of animals. We discussed it for a long time.
After attempting to find research online about statistic of bestiality based on race, they couldn’t find much information about it and nothing based on race stats in that area of crime. They were also shocked by this. They took another route and instead began compiling news stories published online in which someone was charged with a crime that involved sex with an animal. Even these articles showed a shockingly high number, almost 90% whites arrested and charged yet the stats were complete missing from any US crime reports.
When presenting their research proposal to their professor, they were told to drop the research subject and choose something else to research with no explanation why. When trying to get answered they were taken aback at the anger that was being shown to them. I still don’t know why that happened but now I think it was because all but two of the students were black. There us still no research online about these figures.
Thoughts?
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Intereresting…http://www.afro.com/half-black-woman-named-miss-japan-stirs-reaction/
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Dang, well Jefe beat me to it, he already posted about the man found hanging in Mississippi. There will be many who say the man probably committed suicide. I have always said this country is going backwards.
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Interesting Cleonette. I think this certainly needs more flushing out… but what you have revealed is compelling. Particularly the missing data in this field of study. Is it about race? I’m not sure, but it is about something.
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Don’t let anybody tell you that Black musicians are dumb. Check out Niles Rogers (of CHIC fame) teaching a master class in Paris, 2010.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF1d227_4ac)
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@Abagond: Are you going to do a post on Otis Byrd the Mississippi man that was found hung. They are saying it was probably a suicide but i don’t buy that i believe it was white supremacist. I read Byrd went to prison for killing a white woman, perhaps the killers thought it was their job to seek retribution for the woman’s death.
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@ mariareginacd You are right. It’s amazing how deceiving it is. But when you think about it,its the only way to keep up appearances. Our government is the biggest perpetrator of this. That is the scary part. Crime stats is just another Black Wall Street.
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@ King I think there would be mass hysteria if it were somehow proved that black people are not the worst people that walked the earth. Even when things are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, they will try to deny it. I com across it in my work all the time.
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@ mariareginacd
How many “Indigenous communities” of any kind anywhere in the world were not patriarchal in structure? What percentage would you say that they represent of the cultures of the world?
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@ Mary
Yes, I will be doing a post on Otis Byrd, probably this week, but I want to see what the autopsy says first.
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Oops! I always forget to check this thread because it doesn’t pop up on the main page I’ll have to read your responses and get back to you, Thanks.
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http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/03/12/the-ekos-poll-are-canadians-getting-more-racist/
Is the Pope Catholic?
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@mariareginacd
I must say thank you for the knowledge you are sharing.
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Has anyone seen American Crime yet?
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New comments in some threads (eg, “Asian Fetish”) are not showing up in the New Comments section. Is there a reason why?
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“EXCLUSIVE: L.I. woman says psych ward doctors believed she was delusional for insisting Obama follows her on Twitter”
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-woman-held-psych-ward-obama-twitter-claim-article-1.2159049?cid=bitly
#canthesubalternspeak?
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“Some days…. I seriously feel like being a black woman is like being an adult in a world run by adults who think and behave like children.”
That’s an excellent description of the kind of people who get positions of power in our society. Having lots of privilege definitely prevents people from developing character, wisdom, inner strength, etc.
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@shirinalr: I watched an episode because Regina King was in it and it was good and it’s pretty well acted and it’s gritty
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http://blackexplainer.com/new-blacks-have-radically-altered-dna-say-scientists/
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Uau…
Finally the Japanese seem to be willing to accept a mixed Black/Japanese as their representative beauty:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/25/asia/japans-biracial-beauty-queen/index.html
Good day for both Japanese and the Black World!
Viva….
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@ Mary
I have been trying to get hooked on it, but I can’t. I guess it seems too staged.
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“State of Black Oakland 2015: A People’s Assembly”
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/state-of-black-oakland-2015-a-people-s-assembly
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http://blackagendareport.com/uncle_tom_celebrities
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@ Pumpkin
I responded to your email. Let’s do this there.
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An interesting comment on Yahoo today:
“My uncles are cops and my Dad was a state prosecutor. Many in my family are in some way connected to law enforcement. It has long been an open secret (among our entire circle) that police routinely go overboard.
Thing is, most cops aren’t dumb. They don’t find some well connected model citizen who happens to be of color and start harassing in plain sight. For that matter, no one commits any wrong doing when the chances of getting caught are high. Its always done when its relatively easy to get away with it. Police aren’t any different.
They become much more aggressive when there is no one around and the person they are attacking will have no viable way of speaking up to report an incident that will achieve any results. This is why so many extreme cases happen in poor neighborhoods. The homeless are usually the most frequent targets because everyone thinks they are crazy anyways. But many others are also in danger. Cops know that if they’re going to violently assault anyone, it is best to go where there is already high gang or drug activity and then pick someone who matches the profile of a criminal (or at least the stereotype).
The cops aren’t going to report bad activity among fellow officers either. I know of an incident where two officers were patrolling and one decided to confront a homeless man and then began beating the innocent man with his night stick. The other officer tried to stop his partner. When the beating didn’t stop, the other officer drew his weapon. The beating then stopped, but the cop who drew his weapon was subsequently fired for the action he took. The officer who was beating the homeless guy was not even written up. In fact that guy has been promoted twice since then. This is ordinary police culture.
People aren’t protesting because of a hatred of Whites. Maybe race plays a factor but only because Blacks don’t like the fact that they are disproportionately targeted because everyone will believe that the Black guy was probably doing something wrong. In other words, they don’t like being among the easiest of targets for police brutality. They have a point. I know that other races are targeted as well (sometimes even Whites). Its just Black people (men in particular) have a harder time convincing people that they really were not guilty of anything. If a Black guy was really guilty of something (even a misdemeanor) that can easily be proven, then its fair game to go overboard because its really easy to paint him as a criminal. People aren’t protesting because they hate White people, the cops know that protesters don’t like the fact that they are powerless against the state. If cops want to assault and kill you, if you look like a stereotypical criminal, the cops know that they can get away with it.
For all of those people who believe that police are really super nice guys that just want to help people, just realize that domestic abuse is highest among cops. They are also the ones that get away with it the most. There are news stories about cops killing their wives all the time, but many more police reports of beatings that never make the news. Goodness, most wives won’t even call the local police department if their husbands become abusive because they know that there is no point.
This is just what I know.”
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^^
That’s completely right. On the other hand, in the wealth white-flight suburb I currently live in, for the past 25+ years they’ve had a yearly hippie festival where privileged white people smoke marijuana right in front of the cops and nothing ever happens to them. The police serve the interests of wealthy white people.
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@ King
Interesting.
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Agree with your comments Speak Out. I thought so to sharinalr.
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Um… what is going on in Quatar?????
http://screamer.deadspin.com/qatar-forced-a-bunch-of-migrant-workers-to-run-a-marath-1695332065
http://yahoo.thepostgame.com/blog/heroes-villains/201504/workers-qatar-forced-run-marathon-shoeless-bid-guinness-world-record
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Are the Nigerians the next Jews?
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/04/pf/college/immigrant-accepted-all-ivy-league-schools-harold-ekeh/
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@abagond: have you ever done a post on Mumia Abu-Jamal and/or John Africa? If not, I’d like to suggest them as subjects.
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Damn it. I keep accidentally posting under an old account. ^
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Walter Scott was shot by a policeman in South Carolina today unarmed 8 times
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@King: On my Google + The young Nigerian brother who got accepted by the Ivy League schools. The black American posters were
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@King: On my Google+ The subject of the young Nigerian young man who got excepted at the Ivy League schools. All the black posters were excited and posting congratulations. Then this Nigerian poster went ballistic and typing that the black Americans had no hand in his success and had no right to claim him. This was so crazy. This Nigerian sister set it off on Google +. The Nigerian said how triffling black Americans were and why the Africans were on top because they are more on top academically. And that all the black Americans were nothing but baby mama’s and thugs. This was crazy. I know things are frosty between black Americans and Africans. Abagond should do a post on that.
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@Abagond: You should do a post on the AA and Africans and why they have such disdain for AA.
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Agree that the frosty relationship between African-Americans descendant from post 1965 and pre 1965 arrivals should be addressed and pointed out. The Immigration and Naturalization law of 1965 has created a disconnect in US society and this issue should be brought out to the open.
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@Mary Burrell
I have found the situation so complex that I believe it would take several posts just to get a general idea of the issue. Harold Ekah is not the first African immigrant to meet such success and in past post and discussion I have seen; it has been just as volatile.
From my understanding the issue is that African Immigrants play into the stereotypes about black Americans. They hold the idea that if I can do it so can you (much of the mindset of white Americans), yet they know little on the dynamic of racism in the American system to truly understand the plight of black Americans. Though both black Americans and African immigrants have little idea how much they play into the divide and conquer of white supremacy by agreeing with and carrying out those ignorant ideas of each group.
Though also reading comments from different Africans I sense a hint of anger that hides behind the “Black Americans do not value education etc.”. When allowing them to speak and elaborate many of them hint on being teased and picked on by black Americans and white Americans, but they go on to harbor anger at black Americans. I think it is a matter of they expect it from whites, but it hurts from your own in a manner that is hard to explain. Though I disagree that Africans are on top simply because they are academically, because that ignores those black Americans who have achieved similar with less recognition. I believe Africans are used to show “see we are not racist” thing. Also another dynamic to this is that typically those that can afford to move over here are already a bit privileged and have better schooling. While that is not the only type of factor in these cases, it does play a huge role in what we are seeing. Especially when we are constantly being told the average black IQ in Africa is like 70 (apparently a very nice scientific backed lie courtesy of white supremacy).
Then I have also ran across the discussion of the a-word. You will always get that Nigerian that will deny what it means or that it is even negative. Only to have a Ghanaian return to tell of it’s negative origins.
So much can be said and discussed. I agree 100% that it should be as to get a real idea of the issue.
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@Mary Burrell
As to Walter Scott, I just finished reading up on the situation via a Nigerian blog. From what I read the guy acted as if he did nothing wrong and was comfortable claiming “he feared for his life”. Which gives me the very idea that he knew what he did was wrong. He knew what other killer cops did was wrong, but he carried the mindset that he would never get arrested because a) cops never get arrested and b) cases came before him with video and they were all set free.
Little does he know that he may now be the patsy used to show “see we are not racist and see we do our job fairly”.
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@Sharinalr: Yes you are pretty on point about the post on the Africans vs AA.
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^^^^^
Awesomely Luvvie did a great job explaining some of the beef re: Africans and African-Americans. http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2014/01/relationship-african-african-americans.html
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Hi Abagond, I just sent you an email tonight about a half hour or so ago. Thanks.
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Mary, Sharina
I don’t know if it’s still going on, but when I used go to London, I know there was tension between Nigerians and Jamaicans.
Nothing huge but enough where each group would have something “negative” to say first before anything positive was said.
My personal opinion was that the Nigerians felt that we (Jamaicans) were ignorant because we did not truly associate ourselves as “Africans” and that we are too arrogant without having any “success” to show for it
and the Jamaicans felt that the Nigerians were a’s kissers of the English and are arrogant because they think they are smarter than Jamaicans.
Jamaicans ARE arrogant, that’s why many of the other Caribbean islanders can’t stand us!
I personally don’t think people on Abagond’s blog could have a real discussion on African vs African American issues.
Every time this blog tries to discuss intra-racial issues, people get defensive, angry, and don’t wish to be honest.
I don’t believe people would be honest about inter-Ethnic/Cultural or National relationships amongst people of colour. Look what happened to Jorbia — she got chased out.
No one seems willing to put their foot in the other sides shoes.
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Here is a article about a British politician of Jamaican descent, Dianne Abbott, the UK’s first black woman member of parliament. She got in trouble for making an ignorant comment about Nigeria:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2006/05/060526_black.shtml
“A seemingly simmering rift between the UK’s African and Caribbean communities apparently only needed a spark to ignite a full-blown raging debate on relations between the two.
It was triggered by a Jamaican newspaper article by British Labour Party MP Dianne Abbot raising questions about corruption in Nigeria:
‘Think Jamaica is bad? Try Nigeria. ‘When it comes to corruption, Nigerians make Jamaicans, and every other nationality in the world, look like mere amateurs.’.
This issue has pitted Dianne Abbott against Lola Ayorinde, a Nigerian-born British opposition Conservative party politician.
They also highlights ‘differences’ between African and Caribbean peoples in Britain.
Dianne Abbott:
“As a child growing up in the tight-knit Jamaican community, I was taught as an article of faith that people from Jamaica were better than any other country in the Caribbean (whom my parents referred to as “small islanders”) and that Caribbean people were infinitely superior to Africans, who lived in mud huts and did not know how to comb their hair.
Lola Ayorinde:
Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, African children were being taught ‘how superior they were to Caribbean people, who had been stupid enough to get sold into slavery and were all thieves anyway.’
“In recent years”, she noted, “some of the silly myths and antagonism have resurfaced.”
“We need first of all for the Caribbean blacks to acknowledge that we are not the same group as they are. They need to begin to learn about Africa, to begin to understand that even if they have the African heritage, they are not Africans anymore.”
Dianne Abbott tries to recover by saying: “If you have a divided black community everybody loses, West Indians and Africans.“
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Eddie Huang, the author of “Fresh Off The Boat”, criticizes the show over it’s sanitized version on network tv.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/08/eddie_huang_blasts_fresh_off_the_boat_an_artificial_representation_of_asian_american_lives/
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@lifelearner
Thanks. Her comment section was pretty mild compared to what I have read before, but she did touch on the issues and the commenters helped to highlight others.
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@Linda
Thank you. I was hoping you would chime in as you have more experience here. Would you categorize this as a “My group is better than your group” squabble or do you see it as more than that?
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@leigh204
yeah, I read elsewhere about how much “artistic license” was taken v. the original book, and how it was sanitized so as not to offend white sensibilities.
Any personal review of that TV show might require a reading of the book first.
BTW, I found it is coming to a cable channel that I am NOT subscribed to on April 12. I am debating whether I should subscribe.
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@ Mary
Thanks for the suggestion.
@ Linda
Thanks for the sobering warning.
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@ Leigh
Thanks for the link. I hope to do a post on “Fresh Off the Boat”.
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@ Mary Burrell
I am writing a post on this.
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@ Thuy
I got your email. Thanks.
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“A Rising Share of the U.S. Black Population Is Foreign Born: 9 Percent Are Immigrants; and While Most Are from the Caribbean, Africans Drive Recent Growth”
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/#the-history-of-black-migration-to-the-u-s
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“Social Science Research and Public Policy: Context, Networks, and Strategies”
– See more at: http://www.asanet.org/footnotes/march-april15/social-science_0315.html#sthash.RHV951oq.dpuf
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My post on the Walter Scott shooting:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/walter-scott/
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@mariareginacd
“I think American Capitalism turns us all against each other. I know I sound like a Marxist but that’s seriously been my experience.”
That’s exactly what I was taught in Ethnic Studies, and it’s what I see. We all tend to feel hatred and jealousy of people who have more privilege than we do, and we all have privilege in some way that others don’t, and if we can’t love each other anyway we can’t work together to achieve anything, but on the other hand if we don’t call these people out on their privilege they continue to oppress us and any social justice gains we work with them to achieve will be made at our expense…on and on and on
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Barbara Walters interviewed Mary Kay Letourneau, the pedophile who later married the student she raped Vili Fualaau
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoJIbt3ZMcA)
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/burning-questions-about-mary-kay-letourneau-and-116045359032.html
Where are all the feminists on this gendered double standard? What’s even worse is that most male rapists were sexually preyed upon by a woman in their childhood which set them on the path they walked towards becoming an abuser. No wonder this guy struggled with drugs for a time, he was most likely trying to drown out the trauma she inflicted upon him. His being married to her is only a sexual variant of Stockholm Syndrome yet everyone and their mother is trying to rationalize this disgusting reality. It seems as if the mainstream feminist voices against sexual violence and general populace only care about the Antwone Fishers of the world until or unless they turn into the Buffalo Bills of the world. Disgusting.
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“sharinalr @Linda
Thank you. I was hoping you would chime in as you have more experience here. Would you categorize this as a “My group is better than your group” squabble or do you see it as more than that?”
In my opinion, yes, that is definitely a part of it.
Everyone thinks their group/culture is the best, and their values are the most representative of what’s “right”.
but I think it also goes a little deeper with the Africans and diaspora African descendants. You notice in the article that the Nigerian lady said “your ancestors (Caribbeans) were stupid enough to be sold as slaves”
–I’ve heard that many times from different people from different countries in Africa.
My opinion, the Africans from the continent definitely make a distinguish between themselves and us because they are indigenous Africans, and they take pride in not being tainted with the label of “slave descendants” — after all, what is lower than a slave?!
it’s a game of hierarchy, and regardless if white supremacy is the cause, it exists between black/brown people
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@ Linda, Sharina, Mary
Interesting thing about the Black Diaspora intra-racial quarrels.
As a teen I had a summer job and one of my co-workers was a Liberian girl the same age as me. She one day decided to go on a rant of how at least Africans “knew who we were” and “weren’t confused” and were more authentic. In a very roundabout way she said Africans were better. When I pointed out to her that the only reason “we” lost our culture was because “her people” sold us hundreds of years ago and asked “where’s the African pride in that” she smirked nervously & became silent. She never apologized for it however.
I definitely remember many African kids being called “African booty scratcher” and other silly & self hating names and I use to always take up for and defend them. I guess the cultures are so different that some feel its difficult to co-exist so they choose not to. Had the pleasure of making some Nigerian friends and am pleased to say I never heard the word Akata even one time in their presence. It all comes down I think to pre-judgment as opposed to actually treating someone like an individual and giving them a chance based on their own merits. Once people do that I think they realize the differences aren’t that great and even if they were its extremely small minded to think, say or feel, equal=bad. We talk about many things in the community that put a wedge between us like colorism, misogyny & classism but this is one that’s usually absent from the conversation.
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“mariareginacd @ I thought many African/Caribbean people didn’t like me because of my class background and I really resented that for acting superior to me.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m prejudiced against certain groups in a certain area and why and I also think this pan africanism and black is beautiful, black solidarity that I grew up with on the South Side of Chicago tends to make me especially bitter about it, especially in personal relationships because…to me we’re family and why must we fight when we have a common enemy that’s attacking us”
Linda says,
Maria, we had a discussion about black Americans moving to a black majority country, on one of Abagond’s post; and my position was/is, once you take race out of the game– everything else comes up to the surface.
(because that is what happened in the Caribbean–even if white people are a minority, colourism and classism is still an issue)
Take white people out of the equation and people divide themselves along Ethnic, phenotype, national, or class lines. I think that is what happens to black Americans and foreign black people.
I agree with you somewhat about some of it being class related
but it does go a bit deeper than “class” in the USA. I think that too many foreign black/brown immigrants buy into the white American stereotypes about black Americans.
They believe the narrative about black Americans (lazy, not interested in education, etc) that the media and white people in general spread.
They are ignorant about American history and come to America with their own stereotypes and prejudices intact.
and if they have a negative interaction with black American people, then they feel the stereotypes were validated.
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as for class being an issue,
I think it’s more of the case of “boot strap” meme– most Caribbean immigrants have to start at the bottom once they move to the USA and work themselves up, even if they were middle class in their own country
For whatever reason, the USA seems to think their education system is the best and they won’t take college degrees or credits from foreign University, so many immigrants (those sponsored by family) who hold Bachelor or Masters degrees from their countries, get busted down in rank (back to Freshman or sophomore) when they enroll in American schools.
(the exceptions are foreigners who enter the USA on educational visa, who have been accepted to US Universities… so they are coming directly from their country to go to school.)
for those people who have experience from their country, (nurses, accountants, engineers, teachers), they are bringing experience and skills with them and can move up the American corporate ladder quickly
and for the uneducated immigrants, most are willing to work long hours at sh’tty jobs, live 10 people to a house, and buy everything in cash, so that they can save up to buy their house, car, and live the American consumerism dream (and show off to friends and relatives back home)
So, because these black foreigners were able to climb the ladder so quickly, they look down at black Americans in general because they feel that if they did it, then black Americans should have done it too.
(not realizing that many black Americans have and are middle class because the media does not broadcast this, they like to highlight ghetto and poor people)
As I said, they are ignorant, and like yourself- I call these Jamaican/Caribbean people out quickly and remind them that, if it had not been for black Americans, they would have had a harder time climbing that ladder.
But of course, the next thing out their mouths is, “well I would just move to London or Toronto” — which is what they should have done in the first place but they all know it’s harder to make fast money in England.
I think the first generation immigrant is not as invested in black America as their first generation American children because in their minds, they can always go home.
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“A,
I definitely remember many African kids being called “African booty scratcher” and other silly & self hating names and I use to always take up for and defend them. I guess the cultures are so different that some feel its difficult to co-exist so they choose not to.”
Linda says,
I went through my own version of this. I had went to high school in America for 2 years (junior year in New Jersey and senior Florida), and I hated every minute of it.
I’m a mixed-race Jamaican, my brothers and I were told we looked “weird”, and got called “hut monkeys, juggle bunnies, and banana boat wetbacks”.
I actually decided to leave America after I graduated because I did not have a great experience here initially and I walked away not liking either black or white Americans. To me, they both acted alike and were mean to foreigners.
keep in mind, I was viewing this from a teenager’s lense and this was before Bob Marley became popular, when being Jamaican was still a sin.
We got into a lot of physical fights because we were not taking that sh’t sitting down from anyone. It took whooping a’s to finally make some friends.
We still got teased about speaking proper English (sounded too proper, like white people) or about speaking patois
It was difficult because we did not know anything about American culture, especially about how to navigate the racial politics/issues of America. Many immigrants stick together because it’s easier.
I had to make American friends, work here, and learn the history to lose some of my own negative views and to realize that kids are just mean – period.
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“mariareginacdm,
You’re right but, the only reason I say its class related is because to most non Americans, all Americans (read White) are wealthy. I had this same problem travelling as a student in Europe. Once people heard me speak the price for things would jump up because America Accent = Dumb tourist with money to waste.”
Linda says,
Maria, you made me laugh because this is Very true. 🙂
I also went to University in Europe, and the one thing I noticed is that the price does go up if you are American or perceived as American — it was like a punishment.
Even in the Jamaica, if they realize that you are a Jamaican living abroad, they call you “foreigner” and treat you like a white person and raise the price on you because being an American abroad equals being an “ATM”
England is one country that love black Americans. All smiles and friendly conversations for you “Yanks”. Me being Jamaican, no such love.
Every time I went to London to visit my family, I got hassled going in the country and coming out. I’m amazed I never got arrested for cussing out custom’s agents.
I got treated this way because they wanted to make sure I wasn’t trying to “stay or work” in the country without proper papers. Even though the bank statement I showed them had more than enough 00’s in front of the period to allay their fears, this did not stop them from harassing me.
I went to school in Germany because I refused to go to school in England. I personally could not stand the British, even living in Jamaica.
I felt more love on the Continent but even that had it’s limits. People were much friendlier to me once they realized I was a student, and if I mentioned that I planned to “go home”
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“mariareginacdm @ They may get brainwashed in their countries but trust they KNOW what the reality is when they get over here. Very well, but they use certain social perceptions to their advantage to be competitive. At least in the Caribbean and Africa it’s because of the way colonialism. Like in the Carribean slavery was basically just a machine. It was so brutal there and in Africa because some other black person could be brought over to replace you if you keeled over and died from overwork.
And that happened quite often so to survive many of African and Caribbean people had to ingratiate themselves to white people, so even if you’re treated subserviently the fact that white people associate with you at all o many African and Carribean people is a sign of advancement/good breeding/culture/class/good upbringing and all of that.”
Linda says,
Hmmm, interesting and “different” viewpoint.
I hear what you are saying as far as seeing Caribbeans and Africans as “whitewashed” (correct me if this is not what you are saying)
I can’t speak for the other islands, and I am not a spokesperson for Jamaicans either but I will say this… I don’t think we smile or push up on white people in order to ingratiate ourselves with them because we want them to “like” us.
It’s more of a case of “playing the game to get ahead” and because Caribbean people don’t feel “invested” in the black vs white dynamics of the USA.
As immigrants, we are wired to do 1 thing– as you said, “chase paper”. We came here for money, and everything else is a side show.
In school, we are taught that our African ancestors freed themselves from slavery in Jamaica by fighting the slave owners, while the Maroons fought the British army and defeated them (the British offered a treaty for peace)
In a strange kind of way, Jamaicans believe they are equal to/on the same level as white Americans because as former British subjects, we (Jamaicans) think we have “good breeding/culture/class/good upbringing”; whereas, Americans are sort of basic with no manners.
( If anything, Caribbeans give more deference to white British people, God save the Queen)
but it’s not all on sided. White Americans do their own version of divide and conquer by telling Caribbeans that they are “better or different” than black Americans and some Caribbeans buy into that because they feel that they are different than black Americans.
I read an article that talked about that in the past, some white American employers showed preferential treatment to Caribbean immigrants with hiring practices; and that recently, some Ivy League schools admitted to giving placement to Caribbean or African students because they felt they were “more friendly” than black Americans.
Ask any of your Jamaican or Caribbean friends about the things white people tell them, that those white people would never dare to tell you (as a black American) in your face.
Like you, I don’t feel sorry for any Caribbeans when they get the “wake up call” because they should have known better. We see how white tourists behave when they visit our countries, they can be very rude, disrespectful, and demanding.
on the flip side, there are the white tourists that are more friendly and open than they would be back in the USA. They want to hang out, meet black women and men, and be free spirited. It seems sun and alcohol makes them lose their inhibitions, but once they go back to the USA, they put back on their masks.
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“mariareginacdm,
I do love Dub Step and No Lay and Shystie though. I never went to the British Isle when I was in the EU. The only people from there that I liked were the Black Jamaican British people, lol.”
Linda says,
you should go, they will treat you like a princess,
and they probably won’t overcharge you because everything is expensive anyway 🙂
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@Mary Burrell
OK, just saw the first 2 episodes of “Fresh off the Boat”.
It looks like a rehash of “Everybody Hates Chris” or “Malcolm in the Middle”, but with a Taiwanese-American family instead of a black or white one.
I have not seen “Blackish” which this show is also often compared with.
It is nice finally to see an American TV show with a premise based on an Asian American family. However, I didn’t find it that funny or entertaining.
Things that I liked more or less:
– Some things that Asian kids have to put up with in white suburban neighborhoods is picked up, but only those which whites can relate too or would find funny.
– Jokes are made about both whites and Asians
– Constance Wu is funny. She is the only one who is really entertaining in my opinion.
– I normally like Randall Park, but he is playing the straight guy and is not as entertaining as I normally find him.
Things I did not like too much:
– Most of the things that Asian kids have to put up with in white suburban neighborhoods is not brought up. I suspect it is because they do not want to offend suburban whites, which is so painfully obvious the target demographic audience of this show.
– Having the black kid (and the only black kid) call him Eddie the C-word in the cafeteria. It feeds into the white “feel good” model of blacks and Asians fighting it amongst themselves, removing it from the hands of white people. I think whites actually find that funny (ie, Asians and blacks fighting over which one is more oppressed.).
I have heard the C-word used by both blacks and whites, but the way it is done in this TV series, E-e-e-w! I didn’t like it.
– “If you get lost, look for a white family.” E-e-w-w!
– It feeds into stereotypes about Asians and makes fun of them (e.g., the “Tiger Mom”). It does make fun of whites too (e.g., the principal, the teachers, rednecks, white families happy if their kids get straight C’s, etc.), but only the most innocuous things that whites would make fun of too. It doesn’t address most of the real problems that Asian Americans face in US society (eg., bullying, violence, internal racism, bamboo ceiling, Asian male emasculation or real harmful stereotypes). It does touch once or twice on perpetual foreigner stuff, but only in the most innocuous way.
–> In other words, it is sanitized.
– The parents are pretending to be immigrants even though they are both native-born Americans. That means that they have to put on some kind of accent to make them seem, well, foreign. But it does not sound natural at all.
The protagonists still seem like cardboard characters designed for white entertainment. A little more developed perhaps then the occasional token slot on most TV shows, but cardboard, nevertheless. I feel it is a kind of minstrel show with Asian characters presented to a white audience.
I didn’t enjoy the first two episodes. But Eddie Huang seems to imply that it just went downhill from there. Now I think I need to read the original book first. I may watch the TV series just to see what kind of images they are blasting on popular American TV, but I doubt I will have that many positive things to say about it.
I agree with Eddie Huang’s quote:
There is still a long way to go here.
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I am sorry, the following is confusing:
“The parents are pretending to be immigrants even though they are both native-born Americans. ”
The original parents are actually immigrants, so what I mean is
“The actors portraying the parents are both native born Americans, but are pretending to be immigrants.”
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@ Jefe
If you want to do a guest post on “Fresh Off the Boat” that would be awesome. If not, I will probably do one myself in May.
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@ Jefe
Like what?
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Hey Maria, you’ve said a mouthful, I’m strained for time, so I will try to hit your main points:
Maria @ If you want to get past any barrier you have to break it down. There’s no avoiding that step. And most of the African/Caribbean people never seem to get to the “conquer” part of the paper chase. They never get leadership roles beyond maybe middle management. Their ambitions are to basically to just perpetually occupy serving roles in some fashion, even their businesses run up against barriers of racism eventually:
Linda says,
but that’s the thing– we are not trying to “conquer” in America, we are just trying to get to the next step in the ladder.
when I say “invested”– I am not saying that Caribbean people don’t care about what is happening in America. Our black and brown children are getting killed by the police too. We face prejudice and racism in America as well.
but the difference may be that, for black Americans, the USA is “home”
and this is the only home you can go back to, if you don’t like how things are going. The majority of black Americans can’t hop on a plane to fly somewhere else if it gets too hot in the kitchen — America is it!
So, you have no choice But to fight for your rights and to make changes in this country — black Americans should be the ones fighting to “conquer” to get your fair share in your homeland.
For first generation Caribbean immigrants and their American born first generation children, in their minds, “home” is the country they came from and in the back of all our minds, when we get older and more financially secure, we wish to go home or invest back home.
That doesn’t mean that we don’t care about what is happening in our adopted homeland. We have to care, because policies affect us, social conditions affect us – we are players in the system.
but our children and their children will care because over time, they will be Americanized and their memories of the “old country” will fade, like your friends.
Our children will become “emotionally” invested because they will be learning the same things black Americans learn, and will be more in tune with black American culture and over time, they will lose aspects of their Caribbean culture
For me, that is the struggle I had with my children. I did not want them to forget where we were coming from because I needed them to stay focused and not get caught up.
For the one’s not born in America, they needed to remember that they can’t do, what their friends do because the consequences are different for them than their American-born friends. Their “legal” status does not protect them.
I’ve had 2 of my nephew and a few cousins who got deported back to Jamaica and Belize. Reason: stupid sh’t — getting caught with marijuana, getting picked up because they were in the car in the wrong place and the wrong times, getting into fights that landed them in jail, getting caught trying to “carry” something from home because the Colombian drug money was too tempting.
and deportees have it hard when they get back to Caribbean because they are seen as failures. They are scorned and if they don’t have strong family ties left on the island, they have a hard time getting re-started in life.
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20130505/news/news7.html
One of my nephews was murdered by a Jamaican policeman. He was accused of stealing a bike (that I bought for him) and he mouthed off to the cop. He was placed in the trunk of the police car, and shot in the head.
His body was dumped in front of the house he lived at (my elderly cousins house) and the bike was taken.
(I’m crying as I write this because he was only 17 and I loved him dearly) He did not deserve to die like that because a pig wanted the bike for his children.
That is the Jamaica that no one talks about- police brutality is a way of life. So, yes, we “get it” and feel just as sick about police corruption, just like black Americans.
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mariareginacd @ but that doesn’t equate to accepting unequal treatment in my mind though because I know that you will never advance by accepting unequal treatment you’ll just get by. They never get leadership roles beyond maybe middle management. Their ambitions are to basically to just perpetually occupy serving roles in some fashion, even their businesses run up against barriers of racism
Linda says,
I’m am not familiar with any situations where Jamaicans or other Caribbeans are willing to accept “unequal” treatment. I’ve never heard of that before, so I’m not sure how respond to this.
Just because we are willing to smile and laugh with white people doesn’t mean we are not hip to their game.
I don’t know one Jamaican who would be OK with being called the “n” word by a white person, or being called “boy” or being treated rudely.
I think we pride ourselves on putting white people in their place in a “classy fashion” – give them back their own medicine in the same slick way they handed it out. (not my case though, as I get older, I have no patience)
When I say Caribbeans immigrants don’t know the history of America, I mean they don’t have the historical outrage because they did not live the black American experience. and I’m mostly speaking about the new wave of Caribbean immigrants.
The newer Caribbean immigrants who came after the 60’s can’t tap into the emotional pain or collective memory of black people in America experiencing Jim Crow, Emmett Till, sitting in the back of the bus, “white’s only” establishment, or even blackface.
but we get what is going on because we experience white racism and prejudice as well –that is a common issue that black Americans, Caribbeans, and Africans have and do come together on.
I think that our response to things may be different culturally but it doesn’t mean we accept racist behavior from anyone.
and what you said about Caribbean people or our descendants not having leadership roles in the USA or accepting unequal treatment – I have to disagree with you on that.
This is something I hear black Americans say about Caribbean people when they get mad at us – that we did not participate in the black American struggle.
Many of the civil rights leaders were of Caribbean descent because they came in the early 1900s immigration wave
early “Pan African” and “black pride” movements in the 1900s was popularized by Marcus Garvey, Jamaican and Claude McKay, Jamaican – and Marcus Garvey was the main inspiration that influenced black Nationalist groups like the Black Panthers.
http://www.sweetsoca.com/bmp/think/blackhistorymonth.htm
Caribbean people have influenced American popular culture and have attained leadership positions in corporations and government:
Malcolm X- mothers from Grenada
Stokely Carmichael, born in Trinidad,
Louis Farrakhan, mother from St. Kitts, father from Jamaica,
General Colin Powell, parents from Jamaican ,
Eric Holder, parents from Barbados,
Susan Rice, Jamaican mother
Shirley Chisholm, parents from Barbados/Guyana,
John Carlos, mother from Cuba (he and Tommie Smith raised their fist, saluting “black power”, during the 1968 Olympics)
The Africa Channel is owned by Jamaican, Paula Madison and her brothers, Elrick and Neil Williams. Paula used to be a vice president at NBC Universal and vice president of GE Corporation.
on a local level, we have a Jamaican school board Superintendent, Robert Runcie, who started out in the Chicago school system.
I could name many more local and national leaders who are Caribbean born or first generation Caribbean descended.
This is what I mean when I say Jamaicans and other Caribbeans need to learn about American history, so that they can see that their IS a connection between black Americans and Caribbeans that go beyond skin colour and slavery.
and it needs to go both ways, so that black Americans can stop thinking that all black Immigrants do is “take” and don’t “give back”
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“I have three children; the oldest two are boys. I had them when I was still running a rape crisis center and a battered women’s program/child sexual abuse program. And I remember panic about having boys: ‘How in the world am I going to love boys?’ ’Cause in my view, men were responsible for much of what was wrong with the culture, and cultures in general, and that aggression and that violence that we were seeing happen in families and in communities. It was deeply life-transforming to completely love – love like I’ve never loved before – these two little boys. And watch them grow up, and shepherding their growth in a really racist, sexist, screwed-up world. And knowing that you could only do as good of a job as you can do.”
From “Barbara’s Story” p.6
“Alternative interventions to violence: Creative interventions”
Click to access Alternative-interventions-Narrative-Therapy.pdf
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@A
I agree.
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@abagond
OK, maybe. I just have a couple concerns:
1. It just started showing here, so it is running about 2 months behind the US. I am not sure I would have enough time to see many more episodes before a post would need to be drafted.
2. I have not read the book which “inspired” the TV series. After seeing the 1st 1 episodes I suspect that it is nothing like the book. Besides Leigh204’s link, I read this article (http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/eddie-huang-fresh-off-the-boat-abc.html) which confirmed to me that the show is nothing like the real life version. I wonder if it would be better to read at least some of the book before commenting on the TV series.
3. It might also be instructive on how it is viewed from your perspective. You already said that it impressed you as “assimilationalist”. That was not my first impression exactly. To me it looks like a minstrel show for white folks, except that the characters are Asian instead of black. The feeling I get is the same after watching a minstrel show with black characters. Maybe you can understand why one might say it has “sanitized” the Asian American experience. It has depicted the Asian American experience as a caricature that white people can laugh at.
Having said that, your blog posts are only 500 words long. One cannot say much anyhow. Maybe the fact that Eddie Huang has already commented that the show has nothing to do with his own experience (besides the premise of moving from DC to Orlando and opening a steakhouse) and feels that it does a disservice in representing Asian Americans to wider American audience is enough to add caveats to any post about the show (even without reading the book). I imagine that the situational comedy ends with the premise and thereafter takes a life of its own.
Given the original premise of the situational comedy, I would expect to see a lot of things that are absent, or almost completely absent in the TV. But it is presented entirely from the viewpoint of a white person (who might have been part of a white family in the same neighborhood looking at what that family might have experienced moving into the neighborhood.
Examples:
1. Experience growing up in DC before moving to Orlando
I know DC Chinatown. It was the centre of the greater Chinese-American community until the 1970s, but lost its significance after more Chinese were able to integrate into neighborhoods and move to the suburbs and after a large number of brain drain (mostly Taiwanese) settled directly in the suburbs, more or less hijacking most of the Chinese American community institutions, most of which have now moved to the suburbs.
It is obvious that this family is NOT a brain drain family. That is OK. About 75% of Taiwanese Americans are brain drain, but not all of them. I certainly knew some that were not. But if they indeed went to elementary school in DC, one of the culture shocks would have been moving from a hyper black environment to a hyper white environment. I have a few Asian friends (whose families came from Hong Kong, Vietnam or China) who went to elementary or even secondary school in the public schools in DC, and they were normally the only Asian kid in a classroom that was 95% black. The shock of moving to a white neighborhood did not seem that important to the story. The only shock mentioned in passing was the aspect of not having a larger Chinese American community nearby. The thing is, I have been to Orlando several times and have met quite a few Chinese Americans living there. I don’t think it is quite like what they portrayed in the TV series.
2. Eddie Huang commented that it completely erased his experience as a child and youth and replaced it with something totally sanitized, e.g.,
– the impact of violence had on his personality development, and the impact it had on his finding solace in hip-hop
– the replacement with the mantra message “America is Great” rather than the one Eddie actually experienced: America ain’t so great and
– He called the Executive Producer of the show an Asian “Booker T. Washington” and “Uncle Chan” just like an Asian “Uncle Tom”.
He says it here:
3. Now that he has mentioned that, I noticed a ton of stuff missing from the show, the stuff I would expect Asian American kids to experience moving to hyper white suburban neighborhoods., e.g.,
– a complete absence of “Ching Chong” – impossible. Even Suey Park said she experienced that incessantly while growing up in suburban Chicago
– a complete absence of bullying, esp. from the white kids – c’mon, with 3 boys, I would expect fights and bullying on a constant basis, with maybe one kid (e.g., the middle kid in the TV show) finding a way to navigate around the bullying, but only after several years
– “lapdog” behaviour. I would expect the entire family to do this at some points from time to time.
– exposure of the model minority stereotypes and fallacies
– treatment of Asian Americans as servants. This follows the lapdog behaviour, but white people have always expected Asians to kowtow to them, whether it is washing their shirt or doing their grunt work in the office. These are corollaries to the bamboo ceiling and knowing one’s place in society
– a near complete absence of perpetual foreigner treatment. Yes, in the first episode they showed a ridiculous example of it (that even whites can laugh at), but it is really played down and erased.
– stereotyped treatment from white parents and white authority figures. Actually, I bet most of the stereotyped treatment is depicted as “normal” with nothing screwy about it. One way they could really expose it is to have an American history class and its glaring replacement of actual history with stereotypes.
From Eddie Huang’s article above:
Do you get it?
I guess we have so much more than necessary for a blog post on this already. 😛
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@ Jefe
Wow. Awesome comment! Thank you. Now I am thinking that I cannot NOT have a post on “Fresh Off the Boat”, guest post or not.
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@Abagond,
(Note: “Melvin” refers to Melvin Mar, one of the Executive producers of the show. Eddie Huang calls him an “Uncle Chan”)
If you really would prefer a guest post, I suppose I could draft something that would be more or less along the lines of what I wrote above. I would mention that it is a landmark event – over 20 years since we had a TV show with an Asian American theme (All American Girl). I would also tell why it looks like a minstrel show to me with Asian stock characters geared for a white audience and how Eddie Huang reacted to it with disappointment.
Maybe you have your own personal take? You still see it as assimilationist?
If you are thinking about something doing something along that kind of theme, you might want to centre your Asian American Heritage month circling around themes related to Fresh off the Boat, in order to give your readers enough context to know what you are talking about. As Eddie Huang mentioned, American audiences have no reference. Accordingly, they probably do not get what he is talking about in his critique of the TV show.
What I mean is that your other posts might need to tie in, e.g.,
– Fresh off the boat or FOB — how that term is used WITHIN Asian American communities
– Asian American stock characters (a summary, including those from the 1930s-1940s – think #1 son from Charlie Chan all the way to the Tiger Mom of the 2010s)
– Depiction of Asian Americans in movies and TV
– some things that Asian Americans really had to work hard for to get what they got –> Eddie Huang mentioned the 19th century Yick Wo v. Hopkins and how Asians are expected to yield to 21st century talking heads with their ching chong jokes
– the implications of the Bamboo ceiling and how whites think Asians came to the USA to wash their shirts and do their taxes
At least I can tell that even though Huang’s family came in the post 1965 wave, he does know a thing or two about Asian American history and about the significance of late 20th century and 21st century stereotypes.
BTW, have you seen any more episodes beyond the first two?
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@ Jefe
I stopped watching it during the second episode, but since then I have seen the whole second episode and maybe four or five others.
I still think it is assimilationist. Off the top of my head: the show presents a US with hardly any racism – just immigrants with their funny ways trying to adjust. Ha ha ha. La la la.
Yick Wo v. Hopkins, Hollywood stereotypes about Asians and this:
“some things that Asian Americans really had to work hard for to get what they got”
(with a snappier title) would be good posts too. Especially the last one. If you can only do one post, I would prefer that one over “Fresh Off the Boat”.
I will write a post on “Fresh Off the Boat” and send it to you for review. You can decide from there from how to proceed – private feedback, joint post, guest post, response post, just comments or whatever. Overall, I think your post would be better than mine since you would have a better idea of how much of a misrepresentation it is and the history behind it.
If May is too soon, nothing says we have to do it then. Better to do it right than do it on deadline, at least on a blog where posts are still commented on years later. May could be spent planting the seeds.
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@Abagond,
I also agree that ultimately it is assimilationist. You could replace the faces with Italian American faces from the 1950s and people would have laughed at that. But at the same time it is a minstrel show, with whites laughing at the Asian stereotypes. Could easily be done in Yellowface.
re: post on Fresh off the Boat, I guess I could draft something first. Or you could draft something first and I could look at it or make a few revisions so that it becomes a joint post.
I want to watch a few more episodes and also Eddie Huang’s additional reactions and some more about the reception by the Asian American media and bloggers, but maybe something along these lines:
– basic info about TV series
– meaning of “Fresh off the Boat”
– original book by Eddie Huang
– Premise of the sitcom
– critical reception (ie, from the white media and white audiences)
– perception as assimilationist and stereotypical caricature
– misrepresentations
– Eddie Huang’s reactions
– reception from the Asian American community at large
Eddie Huang said it went downhill from the pilot episode. On reflection, that was the only one which alluded that stuff like the perpetual foreigner stereotype or the C-word ever even occurs, and it was not something done by suburban white folk. Suburban white folk never do anything racist.
Anyhow, Eddie Huang’s reaction to “Fresh off the Boat” is pretty much what has been happening in general in the American educational system and media regarding the Asian American experience in the USA. It has been rewritten and replaced with a different narrative for a different audience. It does a disservice to Asian Americans just like he said.
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@ Jefe
You seem to have this well in hand. I will let you do the guest post. If you do not want to do it, or find that you cannot, please let me know and I will do it.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Awesome! I added you to my Links page:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/some-links/
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An interesting article!
https://stevenbarneslife.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/why-walking-dead-is-dead-to-me/
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http://www.thestar.com/business/economy/2015/04/14/why-corporate-america-cares-about-lgbtq-rights-olive.html
The last sentence says it in a nutshell.
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@Herneith
I think it’s because wealthy white CEOs are as likely to be LGBTQ as anyone else. It’s not something you can prevent or control for like “race” is. But we have to remember that LGBTQ PoC are often the biggest activists for social justice out there, even though often their fellow PoC are horribly homophobic to them.
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I think it’s because wealthy white CEOs are as likely to be LGBTQ as anyone else.
Maybe so, but I agree with the writer, it all comes down to money:
‘We’ve learned from these back-to-back episodes – the soft-sell Starbucks bid to raise awareness about racism and the furious Corporate America backlash against anti-LGBTQ measures – that some forms of discrimination are more intolerable to business than others.’
Walmart, Marriott Hotels? as the writer says, not in the ‘vanguard’ of Human Rights. The bottom line here is money.
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I haven’t checked in with Agabond in a while. Saw the long discussion between Linda and mariareginacdm. Just had to point out that (for what it’s worth) Zimbabwe has not elected a white president.
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@Anne
You’re right, I mixed Zimbabwe up with Zambia! Zambia elected Guy Scott to be president. He’s not currently president but he was. He said “South Africans are backwards.”
And I no lie, many Africans I know and know are so enamoured with non blackness that they just break their necks to serve white people. That is the biggest example of that kind of behavior that I’ve seen and I still think it’s completely retarded.
Who needs colonialism when you’re basically just giving a robber the keys to your safe?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/01/zambian-vicepresident-south-africans-backward black American
I HIGHLY doubt they would have elected an Black American Guy Scott.
I just don’t understand that. Would ASIANS have made a Black an leader of their country? Would European people have made a Black man, visibly black, leader of their country?
No. And No. But Africans would because some of them are clearly enamoured with whiteness and non blackness in general.
And that’s messed up, considering the way some of them treat other black people, I’m sorry. It’s completely retarded.
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Mariareginacd,
Yes, Zambia did have a white Zambian fill the position of president temporarily until they could elect a replacement for the previous president Michael Sata who died. However, from what I understand he was never in the running to be president because the laws there say that the president has to have grandparents born in the country. Most whites do not and so are not eligible. His position was always temporary and limited in function.
I get the point you’re trying to make. But I just wanted to mention that to make sure we’re all dealing with the correct information.
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@ Kiwi
I think it really says something when even outside countries ruled by white people, whiteness is valued to the point where nonwhite people will degrade themselves just to gain favor from whites.
My problem with that is though, in the global black community, that’s what causes most of the tension. The proud black people who want equality for everyone versus the black people who are enamored with whiteness and aspire to serve white people and their interests because they see it as a privilege.
I bet you if you had said a comment like that to the Kenyan he would have taken offense to it or not laughed if he even suspected a hint of mockery. I’ve had this happen to me!
This Jamaican girl who I was friends with sat down next to me once, saw me putting butter on oatmeal.
She just made a face and said, “You put butter on oatmeal?!” Now shes from Miami, by way of Kingston Jamaica and I’m from the Midwest, where it gets very cold in the winter so I understand where her ignorance of this is coming from. I don’t think people from Florida or tropical areas eat a lot of hot cereal, there would really be no reason for them to. I grew up eating a lot of oatmeal, grits and the like and I went on to put some raisins and pistachios in it too and she looked at me like I had just spit in my oatmeal or something like that.
And I said, “….You’ve seriously never seen anyone put butter on oatmeal?”
Just then one of our black friends came over and said, “Who doesn’t put butter on oatmeal?!”
I said,” Wow Deneica, I’m surprised you’re ignorant of that-”
Deneica said, “You’re calling me ignorant?!”
White friends walked over,” Morning!”
I said to Jake, ” Do you think it’s weird to put butter on oatmeal?”
Jake, “Who doesn’t put butter on Oatmeal?! Mmmm that looks good. Are those pistachios, where did you get them from?” I pointed them out to him.
“You know what you’re smart…. but sometimes you go too far.” And then Deneica just got up and left the table all offended like I had just done something wrong!
i guess she felt stupid though because she came back hours later like nothing had happened.
But this is the kind of stuff that her and other Black Immigrants would look down on me for and think of as “low class” when it’s really an AMERICAN regional custom that they’re ignorant of. The reason their first response is negative is because they have a superior attitude already so anything they don’t understand is automatically “Stupid” or “ghetto” or “low class” even something arguably as American as putting butter and raisins in Oatmeal!
Deneica was also the one who hugged the chick who called us BOTH the n word. She was also the one who said these white girls, who later tried to get her kicked out of the program were “her friends”, and she was the one who placated them about being lazy mediocre students when I refused to hide my confidence in my hard won intellect and academic achievement.
This is what’s missing from that whole AA vs Carribean Vs African debate. And as far as white people goes, they are basically bullies and bullies will only do what you LET them do. If you volunteer to serve a bully then don’t come crying to me when they bust your lip!
When I was in Dresden and I fought with that Slavic Nazi girl, her friends actually got mad at her for losing the fight! I actually saw this Nigerian Student get beaten up at a club and I refused to lift a finger to help her. Do you know why?
She just ran away. She didn’t even try to fight to fight back. I learned how to fight from my Uncles and my Cousins and they’ve all been to prison. And in prison you always fight back. Doesn’t matter if you win or lose what matters is that you fight at all. If you don’t want to defend yourself, I’m not going to possibly risk my OWN life doing it for you. I didn’t ask no one for help to fight that Slavic Nazi Girl when her whole crew could’ve jumped me because where I come from, your friends don’t jump in until they see that you can hold your own and you’re not a coward.
And I argued this point with the African German Immigrants I was with for the rest of the night and they didn’t get it. The German people actually understood my point and where I was coming from though.
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@ Kiwi
The flipside of that, unfortunately with sexism too…some battered women enjoy being abused. I had to end a friendship with a girl like that. She broke up with a good guy who treated her right and CHOSE to be with a man who made it necessary for her to wear shades in the daytime perpetually. More than one. After the third time, when she called me up crying about getting into a fight with his baby mother and him, I finally had to ask her, “What are you crying for? Isn’t this what you wanted? Like you CHOSE to be with this guy.”
Because that was what she wanted apparently. Even victims can make choices and while they are victims of their upbringing/environment/culture, it’s still their choice to BE a victim. And all I said was that I didn’t feel sorry for her. And she was upset that I wasn’t rewarding her for failure or supporting her choices or giving her the sympathy she craved.
At one point I was ready to have a whole bunch of my men folk sort this fool out but SHE begged me not to.
So we stopped being friends because I actually loved her like a sister and I couldn’t stand to see her treated that way. She must have enjoyed it on some level ans she just couldn’t admit it. When she would call me asking for advice, she was looking for attention. Not answers. She never wanted to be responsible for her own decisions so she “asked” for advice in order to share blame. She acted like a know it all, when it came to her sister’s relationships with men too.
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@Anne
Again my mistake, let me correct it:
Guy Scott, a white man, was elected to be VICE PRESIDENT, by the people of Zambia. And then he became Acting President after Micheal Sata’s death.
So question: would the English or the Scottish elect a Zambian into that equivalent position in their country?
Never. And that was actually my point. That you completely missed.
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@ Anne
Black people are not powerless, we just act as if we are. For no reason that makes any sense most of the time. And no other race would do something like that. No Asian people or European people would give Afro Europeans or Afro Asians that kind of leadership position.
I.D.G.A.F what their reasoning was.
There was no one else to appoint to be Vice President….but a white Zambian( one that talks sh.t about neighboring African countries) in a country that’s 99.5% Black?
Maybe some women who are like 50% of population?
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@ Anne
Seriously I get what you were saying but …
I just-THAT makes me ashamed to be black. Not Amos and Andy, not Cheif Keef, not Clarence Thomas, not Mia Love: The fact that Zambian people, Africans in a Sovereign Nation…elected a white man, who talks crap about other African people, to be their Vice President. In a country that’s 99.5% black.
Forgive me I just have a hard time…understanding how or why that was allowed to happen. I’m starting to not give a s..t either and just feel as if I need to distance myself from African and Caribbean people, like they do to us, because they do things like this but then get upset at African Americans over basically nothing. As far as I know, except perhaps Liberia, African Americans never colonized and stole the resources of another black country.
So I don’t how those black people have issues with African Americans as a group but strangely those same people got so much love for White people. The same white people that do neo colonialism, through the IMF & the WHO(lacing flu vaccine with sterilization chemicals in Kenya to control the birth rate) , and economic and political assassination through Private Corporations/Armies/State Government right now. Today. And have basically done that all throughout history?
Like….racism isn’t just a Black American issue. Its an everyone who’s non white issue. So why do other people get upset with us for not kissing people who lace flu vaccines with sterilization chemicals or lie about mercury vaccines causing neurological disorders in black children’s, a..es?
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Mariareginacdm,
I got your point from the beginning. I just wanted to clarify the Zambia story. I have always felt that discussions like these are best served with the most accurate facts rather than assumption and personal anecdotes. I have no more to add to your comments. Have a nice day.
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@ Anne
I love it when people split hairs just to make an apropos of nothing. I actually clarified my own mistake, when you pointed it out and the discussion was all about personal anecdote on both me and Linda and everyone involved parts as discussing human experiences and impressions tends to be.
But yeah..thanks. Deuces
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@Kiwi
She was Ghanaian- Canadian…all the men were white and East Indian. And she actually ran away from home…because her strict Muslim father beat her and her siblings. And yep, feel the same way.
At first I gave her a lot of leeway because her background was sheltered and she was abused at home but she was in her early twenties, she left home when she was sixteen, which was almost ten years ago. She had a color complex and I would recommend books, like I gave her a copy of “Parable of the Sower” to make her feel better about herself. But she would rather watch Bollywood and read Sophie Kinsella so I just gave up after two years. Especially when she became manipulative and started behaving jealously towards her younger sister who was trying to leave home herself.
My last words to her was, “You’re going to let a white man bust your face open, but then turn around and stab your own sister in the back?! You’re a disgrace to women everywhere and your ancestors are spinning in their graves.”
I noticed that a lot in Canada. Asian, Desi, and African girls running from their Daddies into the arms of…white versions of their Daddies. Made me sad.
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@ Kiwi
Even knowing how she was I still miss her company at times. Thats what made me so sad about it. I have all brothers but I’ve always wanted a little sister and that’s what she was to me. I would literally have given her my last dollar. We ate from the same pot, shared clothes, shared everything. She was GORGEOUS. I couldn’t stand to see what being enamored with whiteness twisted her into.
Hence my bitterness. At no one on this board. Just at the whole issue itself.
It is rather close to me heart in even more ways than what I’ve explained here. Whether people choose believe anecdotes or not. I’m not to argue with another person’s experiences just because I might not like what they’re saying.
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Even though white people are largely responsible for the poverty in Africa, they are still viewed by Africans as being benevolent because whites are at the top of the world hierarchy.
I hope not. Maybe in Kenya that was the case, which i’m sad to hear because Kenyans, Rwandans, South Africans, Sudanese people I met in Europe were the most race conscious African people that I met. That girl just was just abused, which happens in every race/ethnicity/culture. Maybe that was due to Kenya’s colonial history with the British? British people have seriously perfected that whole being snide and condescending with a sh^t eating grin. Kenya is very similar to Jamaica in many ways, right down to the male sex workers serving U.S/CA/AU/NZ/EU tourists.
Other African Countries’s at least according to Damabisa Moyo seem very willing and eager to make trade agreements with the Chinese and Japanese:
http://www.amazon.com/Winner-Take-All-Chinas-Resources/dp/0465029094
a symbol of power that commands respect, is not taken seriously by white people.
Yes ^^^that kind of foolishness^^^ will be their downfall I think. No one ever thought the Roman Empire would be defeated either and both the US and the European Union are in the same economic and military position Rome was in. Or VERY close to it: extremely economically dependent on imports, massive civic unrest so panem et circuses is default social policy, large economically draining and unsustainable global military presence, that lacks the morale or strength to defend it’s country(undressed social unrest like racism will lead to infighting that will be a defensive weak point if it ever came to a war on US soil).
I honestly think their “position” at the top, isn’t based off of anything anyone needs to fear. White people are the ones afraid and rightly so. They know once the world figures out their superiority rests on a house of cards there will be hell to pay.
The condescension they showed towards him plus his willingness to take it from them made my skin crawl.
…I know this feeling! And it’s so telling that another person of color had to back me up on this. The people who are the most subservient get so ashamed and embarrassed when you point it out to them, not that this stops them from bragging about whatever benefits and privileges they get from doing it. They just go into automatic denial mode, “Its not that I was being subservient. I was just being competitive. I was playing the game.”
……..I’m not sure China is a better world power to step into the colonial vacuum. They’re trading partners with the US for a reason after all.
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I find Dambia Moyo’s arguments on a LOT of economics fascinating. I don’t always think the research she cites provide evidence for the points of her arguments all the time but SHE is extremely good at analyzing data and bringing up point people don’t like to hear:
http://www.amazon.com/How-West-Was-Lost-Folly/dp/B006OHUR42
I see she’s started lightening her skin though and she is forever in a weave
but I get it…she does work in finance, which is to me one of the most racist corporate sectors.
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I love how when white people ad homiem you by essentially insulting your intelligence, as a PoC, especially a Black Woman if you point out you have more education than them you’re “promoting your credentials”
(Unfortunately her post is more concerned with restating her credentials – PhD, Zambian birth, stint at the World Bank – than the mature debate she alludes to)–
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2013/may/31/bill-gates-dambisa-moyo-aid
I love how when white people ad homiem you by essentially insulting your intelligence, as a PoC, especially a Black Woman if you point out you have more education and intelligence than them it’s viewed as self promotion “restating your credentials” when if fact she did counter Bill Gates argument that she: M“didn’t know much about aid and what it was doing” and that my work is “promoting evil”.
BY Restating her Credentials:
Mr. Gates’ claim that I “didn’t know much about aid and what it was doing” is also unfortunate. I have dedicated many years to economic study up to the PhD level, to analyze and understand the inherent weaknesses of aid, and why aid policies have consistently failed to deliver on economic growth and poverty alleviation. To this, I add my experience working as a consultant at the World Bank, and being born and raised in Zambia, one of the poorest aid-recipients in the world. This first-hand knowledge and experience has highlighted for me the legacy of failures of aid, and provided me with a unique understanding of not only the failures of the aid system but also of the tools for what could bring African economic success.–
http://www.dambisamoyo.com/?post=dr-dambisa-moyo-responds-to-bill-gates-personal-attacks
Sh.t she already wrote a book about it. What was she supposed to do sit down and write another one over some defensive remark that a billionaire made? And then if she did that it would be “long winded” “defensive reply” Tony Just basically made the same economic arguments as her in “Ill fares the Land” :
http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Fares-Land-Tony-Judt/dp/0143118765
It’s not as if Bill Gates actually argued against any of her evidence but way to split hairs with a non counterpoint Guardian. Of course they would come to a rich privileged white man’s defense, however pathetically. Everyone knows Bill Gates is the poster child for this generations intellectually underachieving college drop outs.
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Horace Tapscott and The Pan-Afrikan People’s Arkestra
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFC3gpBgEnA)
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As a young teen back in the day, I used to listen to “Just Got Paid” by Johnny Kemp. That was one of my favourite party jams. Anyway, on a serious note, RIP Mr. Johnny Kemp. I will always remember the fun times I had because of you.
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@ Kiwi
When I heard him say that, I mentally rolled my eyes and let out an exasperated sigh.
It would be like listening to a rape victim say that she wished her abuser would “upgrade” her status to prostitute.
LMAO, You made me choke on my drink! This mentality is so exhausting.
British Imperialism in particular was/is a lot like pimping.
I can’t speak for others so I go by anecdotes.
No worries, we all are. Myself included. And when I compared Kenyans to Jamaicans I was mostly thinking out loud, not saying I disbelieved you, just expressing my own disappointment.
However, just as Japan drove the West out of China, China is driving the West out of Africa. While neither of them did it/are doing it for altruistic reasons, it is still the fact.
True- they are. But what if they end up following the West’s particular brand of racism? Not asking you to say for a definite fact or looking for a certain answer but just picking your brain.
Because to me, a lot of people see Islam as driving the West out of Africa when they’re just as bad as the West to me, and acting as a tool of Western Imperialism: their particular brand of Imperialism just as old and horrible as Christian Imperialism was/ is. And the people who still practice slavery in Africa TODAY are light skinned East Indians and Muslims. Thats why to me they’re more racist than most white people could ever dream of being: they don’t ever get called on it, so they’re more ruthless and pervasive about it. But many Africans and Former Colonies have that trading “pimps” mentality. When from where I sit…they’re all just pimps with a different style of exploitation.
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I’m not high, honestly( I plead guilty to being slightly drunk ) but 🙂bacon pizza is the greatest. food. ever!
I am eating it for breakfast everyday from now on. With lychee and mangoes!
Ditto for fried Korean yogurt(green tea flavored)!
And also espesso with vanilla ice cream.
XD !!
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It has also been my birthday for seven hours:
I was born on blue moon.
I was almost a breech baby but my petite grandmother reached into my mother turned me around.
I’m taller than all my female relatives, because my father is tall and they’re pretty petite women due tot heir obvious Amerindian miscegenation. The Pottawatomie(Neshnabé) women unlike their allies the Kikapoo(Giiwigaabaw) were generally short in stature. My slightly taller than average height definitely comes from my Dad’s side. My sister, mom, aunts, and grandmother are all barely above midget size. My grandmother especially has small but pretty almost childlike hands.
I was born with a veil or a caul over my eyes. My grandmother thinks it helps me to see. I honestly wish it made me blind. Just because you know something bad will happen doesn’t mean you have the power to change it. That powerless feeling has and probably always will make living with any kind of wisdom a slow exhausting and painful torment of a life.
I self medicate with black humor, and on special occasions whiskey and marijuana(not today though and not for lack of trying.)
I was sexually assaulted four times this year, by three separate men, once at my place employment (not in the sex industry), twice in the mental health emergency ward of a hospital I was sent to after I tried to report human labor trafficking and identity theft to the police.
During a period of time when the police collectively decided to behave like entitled jacka..es to the entire city of New York and at the city’s expense …as a ….protest of some kind I guess?
This was In the country of my birth after a three year sojourn abroad, where I never felt sexually threatened by anyone.
I have been to Ohio but not to Dayton. Kurt Vonnegut was right: Dresden and much of Eastern Germany, well Germany period, does resemble the Mid Western United States:If we had churches that were as architecturally stunning, city planning and engineering that was as good as the Germany’s.
Out of all my dead friends, I seriously didn’t figure I’d be the survivor. My money’s on my deceased( Diabetes Type 1) best friend’s little sister.
It has been the most miserable year of my life, so far. And I was born in f…ing the South Side of Chicago, when AIDS and the Crack Epidemic had not quite finished ravaging the inner cities of the America.
And yet… my heart is glad to feel and my mind is glad to be alive.
I wish you all the best.
Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.
Let’s see if I can last another year.
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This is my life some days:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vq0E3UHkug)
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@leigh 204: Yeah, I read about Johnny Kemp that was sad. May he rest in peace.
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He was still quite “young”, Mary. Fifty-five. It always saddens me when people go before their time. 😦
Anyway, it’s not surprising, but actor Ben Affleck wanted to keep information private regarding his family’s slave owning past. Here’s the article.
Source: http://gawker.com/leaked-emails-ben-affleck-suppressed-familys-slave-own-1698664932
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@Leigh204,
Ben Affleck, who is renowned for his stance on social causes and against Islamaphobia, missed a golden opportunity here.
If he could face and deal with his own slave-owning ancestors, maybe the rest of the country can. I think coming forward and admitting this would be for his benefit, not damaging to his credibility.
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Belated happy birthday mariareginacd
@ all
Check this out!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X53K7Y3P-pA&feature=trueview-instream)
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@jefe,
Interesting. We shouldn’t ignore the bigger narrative of this story of how history is often rewritten to suit the needs of the dominant culture. People like Ben Affleck pride themselves so much on their image of being “one of the good guys” that they are willing to use their status/ privlege to make sure they are always seen as such. Also consider the fact that he asked a black man who has dedicated his career to studying how slavery affected black Americans to lie. All this while I’m sure Ben has used the handy excuse of ” my ancestors didn’t own slaves” when it was necessary. At least this doesn’t surprise me.
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http://gawker.com/cop-found-not-guilty-in-fatal-2012-shooting-of-rekia-bo-1699043824
There will be no justice for Rekia Boyd.
On Monday, Judge Dennis Porter found Detective Dante Servin not guilty.”
Before handing down Monday’s verdict, Judge Porter noted: “This is not a place for emotion. This is a place for reasoned decisions.
Reason and Emotion go hand in hand:
Many of us tend to think of decision making as a process in which two separate and opposite mechanisms are engaged in a critical struggle, with emotional and impulsive mechanism within us tempting us to choose the “wrong” thing while the rational and intellectual mechanism we also carry inside us slowly and ploddingly promises to lead us eventually o make the right choice.This description…is both simplistic and wrong.
Our emotional and our intellectual mechanisms work together and sustain each other.Sometimes they cannot be separated at all. In many cases a decision based on emotion or intuition may be much more efficient and-indeed a better- than a decision arrived at after thorough and rigorous analysis of all possible outcomes and implications.
In other words, there is emotion in logic and often logic in emotion
Besides being unjust this terrifies me precisely because of how thoughtless it is/was.
When people kill or commit horrible acts…without thought and without consequence it makes laws meaningless. What the hell is that judge trying to provoke? Anarchy? Riots?
This is the beginning. This is how genocides start.
This is complete madness. Human life is becoming worthless.
I’m not speaking casually, I’m speaking from a sense of slowly mounting horror.All of Our Lives Are In Danger. Black, white, whoever. Because people aren’t thinking. They won’t realize what they’ve done until it’s too late to change anything.
Thinking only takes a moment of pause. A single moment.
This is terrifying me.
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@lordofmirkwood,
It would help start the national conversation about the unspeakable institution that was slavery, and if Ben Affleck could admit that his ancestors owned slaves, maybe others can too.
There is a national guilt about slavery that has never been addressed. So all people do is find other excuses why things are the way they are and deny that slavery has anything to do with it (or pretend that it does not ).
Why else would we have the refrains
“My family never owned slaves”
“That was ancient history”
“Africans sold their own people”
“Arabs did it too”
We need that national conversation.
True, so why hide it? The act of hiding certain facts about his ancestors because of how it might reflect on him today DOES render negative moral judgment to him and to him only.
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@ Kiwi
No. But I did notice they stopped commenting at about the same time, which seemed strange.
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Regarding Ben Affleck’s ancestor owning slaves at one point, he responds:
Source: https://www.facebook.com/benaffleck/posts/849207928486969
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@Leigh204,
re: Ben Affleck’s reply
This is more like how his initial response should have been, instead of what it actually was, which looked like he was full of white guilt, which does no one any good.
Americans across all spectra have ancestors that were slaves (more whites have slave ancestors in the USA than blacks; some Native Americans and Asians also have slave ancestors). Nearly all blacks have ancestors that were white slave-owners. Many whites do. So do some that are neither white nor black.
It would not be unusual to find that a white person (say, who is 90% European, 2% Native, 7% African, 2% Asian) and a black person (80% African, 16% European, 2% Native, 2% Asian) to share the same white slaveowner and black slave ancestors.
It is AMERICA’s heritage. But a strange thing happens once one decides to identify as white, i.e.,
– they go into white guilt mode;
– they do not discuss if they know they have slaveowning ancestors; or
– they say their ancestors never owned slaves;
– they say Africans sold Africans into slavery
– they start talking about Arab slave traders
– they talk about Asian atrocities.
– they talk about how it was ancient history.
How can we have a healthy discussion about our country’s legacy if over half the population goes into this defense mode? Instead, we should teach that
– Americans, in general, are descendant of slaves
– Americans in general, are descendant of slaveowners
– Americans, in general, are descendant of people who killed Natives for their land.
I think it is almost certain that I have ancestors that were
– black slaves
– Native Americans killed for their land
– white slaveowners
– Chinese coolies
– lynched
– illegal immigrants
It is our country’s legacy. I don’t feel guilt about it. But I am angry that people try to conceal the history, or go into guilt mode.
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Just out of curiosity, what would really be accomplished by Ben Affleck talking about whether or not his family owned slaves?
Another name to put on the lawsuits for reparations. Plus, this clown is benefiting from the systemic and institutional white supremacy still in place as a result of slavery.
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“What’s The Nicest Thing A Stranger Has Ever Done For You?”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/windows/we-asked-people-to-share-the-nicest-thing-a-strang#.qa6KEE88Q
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I ran across this an nearly died laughing. These psychos are serious too.
https://whitemeat.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/not-everyone-deserves-a-white-woman-part-1/
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I wouldn’t criticize Ben Afflect so much especially now that he is choosing to take responsibility. All non-Black people of color are currently working on eliminating anti-Blackness as well in our communities, and there are plenty of people of color on here who have tried to deny their privilege in areas other than race.
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@Kiwi
I think that the real message is that
“It seems that white people only pay attention or care when a white person talks about it.”
which is unfortunately the truth.
that is one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is to Highlight white obsession over maintaining value in white privilege (or “whiteness” in general).
. I don’t see it as centered on seeking white approval per se. I see it as vital to get white people involved in the discussion of the legacy of race, slavery, ethnic cleansing and genocide in America. It is vital to get whites seriously addressing the current problems of media bias, stereotyping, discrimination and keeping everyone locked in their racial slot. Nearly all whites act as if it is so past tense, they claim it is not relevant in today’s post racial society. But even individuals will go to lengths to hide it TODAY. They hide their family tree. They hide the systemic racism in police departments and the courts. They hide the truth in our history textbooks. They hide what actually happens in corporations, government and Hollywood.
Why is that? Guilt?
Anyhow, no discussion about race will be relevant unless white people are actively part of the discussion. So any attempt by whites to quell discussion or hide truths needs to be pointed out, even if by whites to other whites.
In order for the discussion of race in America to “go anywhere”, whites also need to be at the table, acknowledge the truth, and then tell other whites (as we know, they are more likely to listen to other whites). It is not really related to seeking white approval.
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@Kiwi
True.
But, even this backtracked semi-insincere gesture might help the next guilt-ridden white person to admit something without having to deny it first. So, we have to look at it as a step in the right direction.
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@Kiwi
You really don’t need to speak to me ever again.
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How is killing an innocent person never about emotions? Even animals have emotions. That judge’s decision and the prosecutor’s decision to charge killer with a crime he couldn’t be convicted of is so… cold and inhuman.
Is that the level black people are at now? People can murder and then say, “Oops my bad.” And walk away scott free? Ignorance and innocence is a perfectly valid reason to execute someone? Without an an arrest, charge, or a trial?
I think this is some form of backlash against Obama’s second term, it’s as if all the state employees are lashing out at the public to turn them against the Federal Government. But I don’t like the way the Federal Government is just hanging back and allowing Black Americans to be the society’s whipping boy
Obama has the nerve to tell Black people not to complain? Tell that to the scars on my breasts or to the corpses of our murdered loved ones. How f.cking dare anyone tell a grieving person not to complain?
I’m scared for my brothers. My youngest is a built like a linebacker but he has Autistic Spectrum Disorder the mind of a child. I don’t want anyone to get hurt or to see anyone suffer, especially people who can’t possibly defend themselves. He’s so shy and socially withdrawn he can barely make eye contact with me.
I have no idea what I’ll do if anyone hurts him. I really don’t feel like he’s safe and I hate feeling helpless and unable to do anything to protect him.
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I hate the way people treat each other sometimes. Violence is only necessary as a last resort to defend yourself and killing is never necessary. Neither is torture or detention without trial.
What the f.ck is the deal with attacking black people anyway?
We never asked to come to American. We were forced to come. WTF are people mad at us for? Building the wealth of the sh.tty oppressive hellhole of a country? Maintaining our dignity and never submitting to control or despair in the face of things like this?
I don’t know or care what white Americans want from black people anymore. I just want them to leave me alone forever. But I don’t think they ever will. They’re domestic abusers.
Every time we try to get their boot off of our throats long enough to breathe they try to strangle us before we exhale that breath. They’re so in love with controlling us they can’t allow us to live without them.
I hate capitalism. I hate what it does to people and I hate what it turns people into. Racist American White people are like rapists that constantly want you to love and adore them.
I would just love to have twenty years of peace. Just twenty years of them not attacking us and leaving us the f.ck alone. Seriously this unrequited violent abusive obsession white people have with black people has got end at some point.
As a race do white people seriously have nothing better to do..but be up our a.ses all the time?
Why are people who fancy themselves so superior so attracted to people they consider inferior any f.cking way?
This is f.cking ridiculous. And unnecessary.
IDGAF what they do as they just…go away and stop attacking people.
I don’t blame South Africa for paying the British and the Dutch to leave. If I won the lottery tomorrow I would give them ten percent of my lifetime earnings just to leave me and mine f.ck alone. Seriously. Like I don’t want anything to do with them after this point. Their behavior is lower than a wild animal.
I would rather live with a pack wolves than white people. At least wolves never require their prey to enjoy being hunted and consumed.
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I used to go to that park that Rekia Boyd got shot in. I’m just venting.
If you have to just disregard my posts.
I get so tired of being harassed and afraid and hearing about people dying when they don’t need to and nothing being done to prevent it or punish the perpetrators.
This is why I read books, or go to the gym, or play with dogs all the time.
I can’t even bring myself to go to church. I have social anxiety and sometimes panic attacks but its entirely situational.
The way these people are behaving is unconscionable and it sickens me how people just tolerate this b.llshit like there’s nothing wrong with it and like I’m the one with the problem because I don’t smile in people’s faces and act as if it doesn’t upset me to see random murders, beatings and sexual assaults.
Its not right. It’s not okay. It never should have happened and it needs to stop but it did and it isn’t stopping. It seems like it’s increasing.
I don’t care about feeling “left out” of a society that does this to its own members.
I never have nor do I desire to hurt anyone or see anyone hurt. I don’t care what anyone says, I’m not the one withissues here.
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At least when animals kill they’re doing it out of instinct or necessity, humans kill each other for sport. That’s all war is. It’s just a game to the leaders because they’re not risking their own lives, they’re risking someone else’s.
Another person’s life isn’t a toy if your life isn’t. If I killed someone’s sister I would put myself in prison. I wouldn’t just be like, “Oh oops! I fired blindly into a crowd of people. Oh well. Sh.t happens. Not my fault because I was ‘scared’. Sorry the gun I fired murdered your sister. Toodles.”
I can’t even kill a roach without feeling remorse.
None of these decisions are meant to make sense. They’re meant to make us afraid I think. And to control us using that fear.
I refuse to be manipulated that way, I’ve seen what “fear” makes people do. And I refuse to allow “fear” to influence my actions or make me hurt another person. I have self control and a conscious. Because I’m a human being, not lower than a dog like that monster Dante Servin.
RIP Rekia Boyd. She’s in a much better place than the one Officer Servin is going to. Whether he actually serves prison time or not.
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@?: Will you be doing a post on the Michael Erick Dyson and Cornel West beef and Dyson putting West on blast on Republican Magazine? What are your thoughts on this dust up
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@Abagond, dang my computer is doing something stupid, i posted were you going to do a post on the Michael Erick Dyson putting Cornel West on blast in Republic Magazine? What are your thoughts?
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@Kiwi
It in no way implies that at all.
Suggesting that white people should be at the table to have a frank discussion about race relations in the USA does not imply that
1. other countries without substantial numbers of white people do not need a conversation about race.
2. discussions about race relations cannot occur without white people present; they certainly can.
I have absolutely no idea how you can possible conclude what you did based on what I said.
Re: #1, of course other countries with white minorities need to have a conversation about race. Malaysia and Singapore come to mind – they do have conversations about race, in fact, and “Caucasian” is one of their races in their racial classification system which includes citizens and permanent residents. They STILL need to work out their race relations problems. But even Japan (which denies their multiracial / multiethnic society), China, Hong Kong, and other places in Asia need that, not to mention other multiracial places with white minorities like Mauritius, Seychelles, Guyana, South Africa, Jamaica, etc. They all need conversations about race. It has nothing to do with whether whites make up 95%, 65%, 5% or even 0.5% of the population.
Even in Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong, white people should also be at the table when discussing race relations. They are part of it.
re: #2, frank discussions about race relations do not necessarily need white people present. In fact, that is an important step in the process. Any group of people should feel free to have an unlimited amount of frank discussions about race without white people present. I even think multiracial people should have discussions without any monoracially identified people present. Sure.
But, in order to address the full implication of race relations in the USA, at some point, whites have to be at the table, as it involves them. If the problems include
– denial of slavery, genocide, land theft, ethnic cleansing, race-based war, etc.
– white guilt (which causes the denial)
– whitewashing history
– post racial, colour blind mythology
– dehumanizing stereotypes to serve a white racial hierarchical order
Then how can we really address race relation problems without whites present? Can any nation address its race relations problems without the mainstream ethnic group present, short of revolution?
BTW, do you advocate restricting Asians to sit at the table discussing US race relations? Frank Wu would have a word with you. 😛
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re: China,
Not sure I can say it was a good or bad thing. Under any regime, we would see good and bad things happen.
For one thing, how can you simply “look past” the Great Leap Forward and related famines and democides, the Cultural revolution, the political repressions and other atrocities, and then say it ended up being a good thing? There are even more bad things – the environmental destruction will end up being much worse than what America did.
Now, China is promoting its resistance against Western (basically, that mean US) hegemony full force. Its rhetoric sounds eerily similar to Japan’s rhetoric 100 years ago. It has essentially designated all of East Asia, Southeast Asia and parts of Central Asia as its “Sphere of Influence”. And there is a renewed cultural and ideological purge. To call it a “good” thing is certainly adopting a certain point of view.
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Well, if you look at it in such dichotomous terms of America and her enemies, and see the erosion of America’s hyperpower status as a GOOD thing, I suppose one could take a certain point of view.
Despite any “good” that comes out of atrocity and mass murder, it will sooner or later be replaced by something bad. Could one term the cooperation that resulted from Germany, Japan, the US and Britain as something “good” too? Maybe China sees it as a coalition of “enemies” and therefore “bad”?
I don’t think China will be any more benevolent than the relevant western power. People in Hong Kong, for example, are asking right now which ruler is ultimately better. Is it better if China remains strongly autocratic and clamping down harshly on dissent? Or is it better if rulers lost their power stranglehold and arranged a different ruling relationship, like a connected web of autonomies? Better for whom? Can we avoid collateral damage?
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http://jezebel.com/a-third-of-american-women-dont-allow-for-enough-time-be-1698790118
I work with the pregnant Medicaid population in my state. A large percentage of these women don’t normally qualify for Medicaid health coverage due to their higher income levels, but become eligible with a confirmed pregnancy. Coverage terminates for the mother (although not the infant) about 2 months after giving birth. All of a sudden, the woman has no health insurance coverage again, so an ill-advised pregnancy often happens to prevent coverage termination. We do a lot of education on the importance of birth spacing, but two success stories out of many thousands of people is not even a drop in the bucket. Unfortunately, many of those repeat pregnancies don’t fare well for the infant or the mother.-taken from the article
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The thing I don’t get about this, and a lot of “poverty reform” is the way that middle to upper class people act as if their advice means more than money. I’m not talking about anyone here its just there’s an obvious cause and effectthat no one seems to want to address.
Telling someone to space out their pregnancies when pregnancy is the only way to be eligible for healthcare, or their fertility clock is running out, in many cases is …kind of backwards. Even if this made sense economically for medicaid eligible people to do, realistically people have plans for their families and conception doesn’t always happen exactly when you want it to anyway. It’s like Marie Antoinette saying,”Let them eat cake.” All of this stuff is. Because no one wants to “alleviate” or “reform” poverty. They want poverty to be as degrading as it is in order to keep people divided and controlled. If they wanted to alleviate poverty they would eradicate it. America is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And I mean wealth in the traditional sense. We have plenty of land, water, for raising and growing food. We have natural gas and other resources to process and distribute that food. We have the infrastructure to provide access to information. But it’s being blocked or sectioned off so that people don’t use it for *gasp* their own purposes.
It so telling that once it became easier to communicate society became more restrictive and controlled! Free country my a.s.
Women, especially PoC, especially black women, like me, are being pushed out of the workforce regardless of their skill and education or being denied access to education and training (due to barriers of poverty created by making education necessary for employment too expensive and inaccessible.) necessary to land a job to the point that they feel as if depending on a man is the only way to survive- is what the real problem is. And I think most people are happy with that because the poor and women are two groups that people love to hate and look down on, because they’re easy targets even to women and other poor people. So much “help” is just control and the last thing someone who’s doing everything they can to survive cares about is the advice someone in a better more protected position has to offer.
Advice, health/financial ect doesn’t help people. Education and employment, and having basic needs met help people. And there is plenty of money to pay for that, look at how much the military gets from the budget.
In this day and age more than in others it makes zero sense to require people to become cannon fodder or a human incubator to survive.
It’s so ridiculous in New York too. The state agencies are so corrupt. Everyone lies: the system does, so they see nothing wrong with it. Like I know the shut down is still going on. But its so telling how when the military went through the shut down, they just cut the education from the budget. This is why I’m glad I never joined. The only thing the military offered over the Gangster Disciples or some other Criminal Gang was social protection and access to schooling. You still get raped in either group. But I learned from people in the military that education is only provided at no cost because you spend so much time doing other kinds of work that you rarely have time to access the educational materials. And there’s an end.
The squeeze is what makes being poor suck. Not poverty itself but the way society is constantly dictating to you or pimping you.
Just because I was born to parents with less access to resources and I happen to be a woman of color with a vagina: my purpose in life isn’t to be a prostitute, criminal, or a slave no matter how many different ways society tries to encourage that by making it one of my only or better choices.
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I can even remember years ago when some thinktank or health organisation said women were spacing their pregnancies out too much! Thats what annoys me so much about this crap.
If you have too much sex, society has a problem with itbecause you’re a dictionary of slurs the most common one being a whore.
If you don’t have sex( I don’t know any sexless marriages, many people would argue that sex is a husband’s “right”) society has a problem with it. Thats what they issue with that lesbian. Lesbians have the lowest STI/STD rate because they don’t have sex with men.
I have personal experience with this. I dated a guy who was a Captain in the U.S. Army. He went on a “business trip” and then came back with Gonorrhea that he gave to me. Boy, was that trip to the OBGYN fun!
Trying to explain that I was in a relationship and the guy just wasn’t faithful to me. I know it’s technically “required” for them to ask how many partners you’ve had but so many of those health professionals just use that as an excuse to get in your personal business. The nurse I saw asked me if I was still with the guy and I said we were going out to dinner {his way of apologizing, which didn’t work because he kept screwing around but still wanted to be in a “relationship”(one sided). This fool actually followed me to NYC…from Germany after we broke up and I told him we could be “friends”..to get some sex. He seriously flew all the way to NYC for that, when I made it clear dinner was all that was happening. He didn’t listen and came all way and was very disappointed.} and she told me not to see him anymore. Good advice and we did break up obviously….but I came to get treated for this disease not discuss my romantic life or get personal advice from a total stranger.
This is why any sort of agreement that mandates me sexually servicing a man( Marriage) I have issue with. It’s not even that women don’t cheat, lesbians I know jump from relationships to relationships and have polyamory, we just tend not to do it in a way that endangers the health of our partners. This fool claimed to love me too, that’s why he flew hundreds of miles to wine and dine me. This is why, besides all the sexual harassment and assault and rape I’ve experienced in the last year, I’m not sexually active or in a relationship. Men make it so difficult for you to love them because they constantly have to be in control at all times. I think selfishness for anyone, if it’s chronic, is a control issue and I’ve know a controlling person who wasn’t selfish. If I was or could be a lesbian it would save me so much time and money. And be better for my health and sex life. Unfortunately I’m strait.
If you DO have babies society has a problem with it.
If you DON’T have babies society has a problem with it.
If you DO get an education employers don’t want to hire you because they can’t pay you the bare minimum. You’re “over qualified”.
If you DON’T get an education no one wants to hire you because you’re “under qualified” even with work experience in many cases.
I don’t even want to get into age because people act as if education or job training doesn’t take time(years), a large portion of which is your highest fertility for childbearing.
No wants to marry you or employ you for whatever reason in either scenario. Unless they can exploit you, and I don’t think marriage and pimping should be synonymous.
Everything I chose to do or not do is an issue for someone for some reason. Because, for whatever reason, people I don’t f.cking know think I shouldn’t be able to make my own decisions.They think someone else should make decisions for me and I should just be happy with those decisions.
Because human beings hate having choices! Adults love occupying a child’s role. That’s what being an adult is, accepting constantly being dictated to by someone else. That’s why no one ever wants to move out of their parents house.
Everyone tells women what to do all the time. But it’s impossible to look good under the kind of scrutiny society places on women. Hypervisual but never seen. I swear all the people that stare at me never answer any question I have or listen to me when I speak.
But no one tells men to be better people so that women will WANT to marry them. No one tells men to share childcare responsibilities so that BOTH parents can have a career and an income. Because women are just supposed to be full time nannies, maids, and cooks, simultaneously and still have time to study, and also work in many cases. Because all of that stuff is so “easy” that’s why men never to seem to want to do it or they always want “help” from a woman to do it. And everything a man says is taken seriously. Even when he’s clearly lying or doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Men are always offered some kind of employment or job training. They just turn it down if they feel it’s too “difficult” or “beneath them”.
Meanwhile I’m supposed to just accept whatever people want to give me.
Everyone knows in relationships the person who controls the purse strings controls the decisions. That’s why men want women to stay at home a lot of the time. And again if I don’t want be contractually obligated to be a maid/nanny/cook/entertainer(sex worker)/counselor for half of someone else’s wages. There’s only so many jobs that pay enough to support ONE person anyway.
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So many people act like birth control is a female only issue, when males are the reason women have babies in the first place.: They have more upper body strength, physical strength period than women. Women on men forceful/coercive rape is so rare it isn’t even statistically significant enough for me to feel like addressing, because most men aren’t seriously afraid of women doing that to them. If I don’t have the strength to physically force you to have sex against your will however you finish is entirely up to you and many men just don’t like to pull out but….they don’t like to use condoms either because of the lack of sensation. So they put the responsibility on the woman when we have no power and/or privileges in this society.
Hormonal birth control has…so many horrible side effects(and can cause lupus) and the IUD besides costing half of my monthly earnings doesn’t always work, especially for black women. My little brothers were I.U.D, babies. My mom only wanted three of us. And with pregnancy all it takes is one time. But…no one likes women to have access to abortion.
The only Catholic guy I ever dated did that to me and it was SO obviously a control thing and not a sex thing. I asked him not to, since…. I don’t particularly enjoy cleaning that up or having to douche so I don’t smell like steel wool. Even women who like it, don’t enjoy that part. And he would just do it anyway even after he said that he wouldn’t. From what I’ve seen if a man like to finish a certain way they’re not very flexible about finding other ways to finish. Because those men feel like sex is all about their penis so they don’t really care about it hurting, not pleasing, or harming you.
But…try to have a sexless relationship as a woman. You will just not be in a relationship. I’ve not been in one for a year, I enjoy sex when it’s reciprocal and I actually enjoy the company of men when they don’t act selfish and immature.
I also don’t like feeling like a child on a date with my father and having the man pay for me on a date. And in relationships I don’t like to watch the man break his back to support me. My father literally did that. I feel like two adults should support each other. But whenever I’ve suggested paying or eating at home or something I can afford my offer is always rejected. Always. It’s not the kind of men that I date either in terms of personality it’s their culture. Especially American culture. This is the reason I don’t date men who practice religion even if I like them-which is most American men. When I dated in Europe relationships of all kinds and sex just weren’t as much of a power struggle over every little thing.
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“God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam’s union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain’s sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon’s judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem’.
Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. ‘Why must I lie beneath you?’ she asked. ‘I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.’ Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.
Adam complained to God: ‘I have been deserted by my helpmeet’ God at once sent the angels Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof to fetch Lilith back. They found her beside the Red Sea, a region abounding in lascivious demons, to whom she bore lilim at the rate of more than one hundred a day. ‘Return to Adam without delay,’ the angels said, `or we will drown you!’ Lilith asked: `How can I return to Adam and live like an honest housewife, after my stay beside the Red Sea?? ‘It will be death to refuse!’ they answered. `How can I die,’ Lilith asked again, `when God has ordered me to take charge of all newborn children: boys up to the eighth day of life, that of circumcision; girls up to the twentieth day. None the less, if ever I see your three names or likenesses displayed in an amulet above a newborn child, I promise to spare it.’ To this they agreed; but God punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish daily; [5] and if she could not destroy a human infant, because of the angelic amulet, she would spitefully turn against her own”-
http://gnosis.org/lilith.htm
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I’m a girl so to understand the Bible I had to learn about this stuff. Many women the Bible talks about, besides Mary Magdalene were prostitutes since there was no other way to support yourself in society if you didn’t have a husband and it wasn’t always considered a bad thing for the reasons it is today. Rahab the woman drops the red cord to give the signal to break the walls of Jericho down was probably one. The two women that argue over the baby that Solomon offer to cut in half were also probably prostitutes.(“Single” women usually lived with their fathers) I heard this story as a kid, how in the Jewish bible there was a demoness called Lilith. And the whole reason she was “evil” was because Adam wanted to have sex in the missionary position and Lilith wanted to be on top.
I never heard that Adam responded to that by trying to rape her though. So the fact that she deserted him and left the garden of Eden kind of makes sense. The fact that Orthodox Jewish/Catholic, Sunni Muslims have really high rates of domestic violence/marital rape/child abuse also makes a lot of sense now.
If the guy’s timing was off, like that Catholic guy I dated, I usually will offer to get on top, even though its not my favorite position so that I can just jump off before he finishes and not have to worry about cleaning up the mess or pregnancy. Birth control doesn’t work all the time and I don’t want to rely solely on it. I grew up in poverty because of racial oppression and circumstances, like my two developmentally disabled brothers being born unplanned, so I take this issue seriously.
I don’t care what guys promise because… people lie, even or especially if they love you, and society gives men the privilege to get away with it. Once the kid is born everyone’s fate is sealed. You can walk away from a bad marriage, I don’t think you can or should walk away from a child. Even with adoption, you still have to go through with pregnancy, and even today that can kill a woman. Complications happen and Black Women die in childbirth a lot, even today. And half of the open child welfare cases end in the death of the child. Or they just go missing.
I’m not just going to carry something in my body for nine months, push it out and just walk away like I feel no obligation or responsibility for what happens to it after I leave. It’s not as if babies can take care of themselves.
And my life and recent experience has really made me NOT TRUST people who make their living from taking care of the vulnerable. That’s why sexual abuse in the Catholic Church is so pervasive. There are too many opportunities for it. The Magdalene Laundries were full of financial and sexual exploitation of the women that got sent to those places. Too many people see orphans,developmentally disabled as labor/sex slaves or free money.
No wonder poor Lillith ran away from the garden of Eden to become a prostitute after that. Excavation of ancient brothels always has revealed fetal bones and I know it makes people uncomfortable but that actually was a universally acceptable form of abortion in many cultures for most of human history. That’s what changelings and all those babies that were left out in the wilderness to die were: late term abortions. Changelings were probably mentally disabled during birth or genetically so that’s why people said “faeries” stole their baby and tried to “give it back” by leaving it in the woods-to die, in almost all cases.
Even if you go by the religious definition of sex and only have it for the purposes of procreation, it’s not always a good time financially to have a child in a marriage. In life period.
This is how I know all those marriage/family values and crap are just about creating poverty to maintain an unfair social hierarchy. Why else would so many religious rules encourage things that lead to or keep people in poverty? I don’t think it’s a coincidence because religions are institutions, the original institutions, most corporations are modeled after them. Poverty isn’t just a social issue. For many people poverty is seen as a business.
Women and children are only viewed as/treated like chattel to people who profit from enslaving them. Bottom line. None of those religious rules make any sense in reality if that isn’t the true purpose of them. And most “learned” people who became priests/rabbis/imams were people who had “leisure” time and access to education namely people who were from or related to someone from the merchant class.
That’s why Judaism/Islam don’t like farmers to raise or eat pigs. They can live in your house with you! It’s probably the ONE domesticated animal that you don’t need to spend a fortune to raise and eat. Pigs have cloven hooves like all the other Kosher/Halal animals thats why that rule in religions and the Bible never made any sense to me. Especially since THAT region of the world by geography has so many FAMINES. It’s the oldest trick in the book to dictate to someone by claiming whatever you want them to do is good for their health or their spirit when you’re really just trying to starve or or hurt them.
So much violence in this world is disguised as “help”, and it’s done intentionally to disguise the true purpose of the systems people are taught to follow and believe in.
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@mariareginacd
Good job breaking it down. I posted this upthread. At the end a woman tells of how she successfully raised her teenage son to be on the lookout for attempted rapes at parties and to do whatever it takes to intervene:
Click to access Alternative-interventions-Narrative-Therapy.pdf
“But I couldn’t bear the idea that he would be there and not stop it. And that he’d be part of a problem by not being able to stop it. So I said, ‘You’re not going to be the problem. But somebody else is. And I don’t know how I could bear you being present. So the only way you can go to this unsupervised party
is if you can role-play with me – if you can strategise with me – what you’re going to do, because you have to be able to stop it. And if that means putting your body in the way, or if it means calling the police and dealing with whatever trouble you might get for calling the authorities on the older boys, or gathering
a group of your friends together to stop it in some way … you have to … I have to know that you will not allow it to happen because being on the side and not doing it yourself is not enough. You’ve got to be an active part of the solution’. And we had long talks about this.”
“So I think it’s possible. You can raise boys. And it’s important to raise them and know they won’t do it. But it’s just as important for them not to be bystanders – to raise them to be courageous and to have them understand that their job is far more than that; they have to stop it.”
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@Speak Out
I read that. And I agree it’s possible but, if society encouranges fosters male supremacy a lot of times it doesn’t matter what parents of either sex say.
I grew up in a crime ridden neighbourhood that was also very religious. Crime was the only industry most of those people had access to and it doesn’t matter how many sermons you preach about trusting in God and having Faith: Hunger can’t be prayed away. Praying just makes it more endurable for some people because it’s a form of meditation but the only way to end hunger is to feed people. That’s why churches have pantries. The bible actually mandates it because of the Sermon on the Mount, the one where Jesus breaks up the bread and the fishes. And it’s not “kindness”, it’s practical. It’s client retention because churches are businesses, the oldest buinesses.
If you’re congregation is dying off from starvation, disease, etc you won’t have much of a flock to Shepard or much money in the collection plate after a certain point. And only so much money can be made from funerals.
I was reading the Bible today, to try to pray but I lost faith in other human beings a long time ago and it’s really hard to pretend I’m the same person I was. At this point to me the difference between crime and business is that one is state sanctioned and the other isn’t.
So much religion, especially Chritianity is just bullsh.t.
I’m just angry at myself for ever believing in any of it. It’s all just a crock of sh.t really. I should have known better. I don’t really know why I bother at this point. It’s not a crisis of faith either .
Experience has taught me that faith in anything is stupid. But…It’s a hard habit to break at this age. It’s meant to be that’s why people get indoctrinated with religion at such a young age.
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@Speakout
Besides everything else I feel like society is constantly dictating to me because it’s against me.
If the antiblack racism that Obama’s presidency inspired is this bad, the anti woman backlash is gonna be the f..king worst. That’s why there’s all these articles in the media about carp like this now. His term hasn’t even ended and it’s already starting.
Reading the Bible sort of exacerbates that feeling. But I guess it’s good to be prepared?
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@Abagond: Things are getting ugly in Baltimore with Fred Gray the latest fatality.What are your thoughts on this?
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Folks, I just purchased this handbag which was on sale!
I already have a blue one which I got for free! Discuss!
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@mariareginacd
“I agree it’s possible but, if society encouranges fosters male supremacy a lot of times it doesn’t matter what parents of either sex say. ”
Yeah, I can see that that can be true, but I know that the values my family heavily emphasized when I was growing up about cultural pride, opposing racism, being poor means nothing about one’s worth, citizenship and documentation make no difference, be the only one in the room to speak up for what’s right if you have to, etc. made a big impression, along with all the dysfunctional stuff they passed on that I had to recognize and fight against as an adult. Too often we unnecessarily fail our children. I’m reading Sheila E.’s autobiography right now and she writes about being raped as a 5 year old. I’ll try to find this article from a few weeks ago about how we can teach our children about consent early on so they know it’s not ok for people to violate them.
“I lost faith in other human beings a long time ago”
Same here, but things that can help are: remembering examples of good people I’ve come across, meeting activists helping the most vulnerable, reading about Native American values, reading twitter feeds of PoC with really good moral compasses, getting spiritual healings (have you ever tried this? I can recommend some free ones if you want. helped me with police related PTSD I think).
“Besides everything else I feel like society is constantly dictating to me because it’s against me.”
Probably because it is. Doing both things.
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“We Can Teach Kids About Consent Without Bringing Sex Into the Conversation”
http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/04/09/can-teach-kids-consent-without-bringing-sex-conversation/
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@ Mary
I will do a post on Freddie Gray on Monday, God willing.
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@ Pumpkin
A post on Freddie Gray is going up shortly.
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@ Pumpkin @ Mary
The post on Freddie Gray is up:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/freddie-gray/
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Any boxing fans? I honestly can’t wait for the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight on May 2ne. Being Filipino, I must admit I tend to support fellow Filipinos. Okay, not always, but most of the time. Anyway, all my family and friends have been talking about this fight non-stop. And I kid you not. The Philippines will be practically at a standstill when this match happens.
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@leigh204
Mayweather dodged this fight for ages because he knows Pacquiao will win most likely.
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@ mariareginacd:
Yeah, this fight should’ve happened in 2009 when Pacquiao and Mayweather were at their peak. I guess better late than never, right? *shrugs* Of course, I’m going with Pacquiao. I do think he’s a great boxer. Yes, I know he’s had some losses, but you win some you lose some, right? I also like how humble and modest he is. He doesn’t let fame get to his head. As for Mayweather, no comment.
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Prayers for the people in Nepal and praying for peace in Baltimore
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@mariareginacd
Mayweather is arrogant and coasting on the laurels of his fathers legacy, lol you can say it. I know black boxing fans that think that, and that like Pacquiao’s fighting style.
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@Leigh
My husband is a huge Pacquiao fan. Though I admit he is quite quiet about this fight.
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ugh why did I @ myself upthread.
But I just had a conversation with someone about this but I basically noticed that many celebrities have gotten rhinoplasties. And this guy, he was French, basically said to me that he didn’t think thin noses looked attractive on black women(we were talking about Ciara but not just her every female celebrity that has basically done this) And I asked him why and and he said:
Him: Rounded noses with wide nostrils are feminine. Black, Latina, and Asian women have some of the prettiest most sexy faces of all the women. Rounded noses look cute and endearing,kind of doe like? Thin noses or thin angular faces in general just look too masculine to me. I know I work in fashion but trust me fashion photographers are some the straightest in many cases most sexist guys out there.I like women who look like women, not women who look….manly and androgynous. (we both laughed.) I mean when I look at a woman I want to see softness and vulnerability not hardness and bones. Like… I don’t want to look at that. It makes my penis limp because it’s so..like it’s definitely a thing-It’s a thing in fashion that comes from the gay community and it’s “shade”. Gay men can be very competitive with each other and with women because they’re men who want to be women and I notice this because I’m strait. They don’t hit on strait men either there’s just a lot more bisexual men than people realize. Even I was surprised by the amount of times men will leave a party or a photo shoot with a guy even though he has a girlfriend who’s this glamorous model. Some bisexual people get together. But with exclusively homosexual men I notice how some of them will tell a beautiful woman a suggestion that makes her look uglier or maybe they don’t realize they’re making her look more like they would if they were a woman. And then men are sort of being brainwashed into being gay or bisexual because their sperm count is being lowered because of all the estrogen in the water table.
Me: Very true. I don’t take hormonal birth control and I notice societies that did had a lot of, like Rome or all those militaristic societies had a lot of homosexual leaders. And I know there’s some kind of a connection between patriarchal societies and that because it’s so easy to be in the closet when your wife is in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and you’re out on the town holding hands with this man. I saw this in Europe with a lot of Muslim men a lot and I didn’t find anything wrong with it I just wondered if that was the reason a lot of male religious writers hated women so much-jealousy and the fact that they loved men. Even with the catholic church and monasteries and nunneries…I have no idea what strait person would willingly hang out with people of the same gender all the time, unless they were attracted to the same gender. And you don’t have to have sex to be gay or bisexual it’s just what you’re attracted to I’m sure many of those people never touched each other. But the level of affection and intimacy I saw wasn’t platonic. At all. I thought that as a child even before I saw two nuns french kissing. I love my best friend but not enough to walk around holding hands with her like as an adult it just wouldn’t occur with me. We do hug and kiss on the cheek but not in a manner than could be seen as affectionate, but maybe its a cultural thing.
Him: I think its racist too. Like all of those black women that thinned their noses most of the time look so much more masculine. Like they look like men in drag and that’s not sexually appealing to me so its almost as if it was done to them on purpose, to create that affect. like look at the rhinoplasties on white women and the ones on people like Ciara and Beyonce. And some people look better after rhinoplasty but I like fat in a women face and a rounded nose. Like when women get pregnant their faces look so hot to me.
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I’m going to start blogging so I don’t annoy people with all my random observations. I spend so much time reading that I have to interact socially but I don’t want to get so into what I talk about that I intimidate people you know?
I just avoided it because….I associate a lot of that online stuff with…narcissism and self absorption…qualities that I hate and want nothing to do with
But I have to talk sometimes, it’s like verbal ejaculation. If it builds up too much I can’t hold it back.
I’ll still post on here but not such long comments.
@Abagond
Thank you so much and sorry.
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@Mariareginacd
I enjoy your posts even if I am not commenting to them all the time. A lot of what you bring up requires deep discussion.
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@ sharinalr
You’re good. I’m just trying to do some mental spring cleaning.
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RIP to “Stand By ME” Ben E. King
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I will not be watching the Mayweather Paciquio fight because Mayweather is an abuser of women he is sickening.
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@Mary Burrell
..yeah he is. So many male entertainers do stuff like that though! Miles Davis beat Cecily Tyson. And Sean Connery has said in interviews he thinks slapping women when they get out of line is perfectly okay.
I don’t agree with that at all. And besides many other things I don’t like Mayweather for the way he beats up women.And Mayweather’s gotten slaps on the wrist for it, unlike Mike Tyson who I personally don’t think did any of the things he was accused of. Mike Tyson was not the brightest but I don’t really buy him as a batterer and a rapist. I don’t buy Tupac as a rapist either. I think that’s the class component in our society. Mike Tyson and Tupac both came up from poor backgrounds and the legal system went after them with everything it had. But Mayweather goes around beating women left and right and he basically buys his way out any punishment except civil damages.
I just get torn over whether or not liking the product of an artist condones that artists abuses. There are so many artists, especially composers namely Wagner and Beethoven, that had issues with or dogged out women, but even R.Kelly and Miles Davis like…I love what they create, I don’t necessarily like them as people. I’m not sure its required although in MayWeather’s case I think he should be banned from boxing. The fact that he’s rewarded for fighting when he success his skills on the mother of his children shows that boxing has no integrity.
Still, I’m not watching the fight because I can’t afford it.
No matter who gets the most points, Pacquiao will win anyway. He has the support of the people largely. And hes the smaller one with the center of gravity closer to the ground so he can balance and react to blows better.
My Daddy was a boxer about Mayweather’s size, bigger actually and he told me the most formidable fighters are the shorter guys because strength slows you down. He said it was better to be flexible and fast rather than strong and slow. Because your endurance is better. Hence Muhammad Ali being “The Greatest.
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Correction
***The fact that he’s rewarded for fighting when he uses his skills on the mother of his children shows that boxing has no integrity.
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So basically the fight never happened anyway because MayWeather just got in the ring and dodged/blocked every blow.
Mike Tyson was right, Mayweather is a b.*ch. No wonder he gave the mother of his kids rabbit punches. He’s “man enough” to beat a the mother of his children, but not “man enough” to be punished for it by *gasp* going to jail…where he might have to actually fight other men.
Like how do you win a fight just by ducking blows?
I wish there was some Mike Tyson like fighter to just pound Mayweather into the ropes. Matter of fact have Mike Tyson fight Mayweather.
LMAO that will never happen. Mayweather will wait until Mike Tyson is on his deathbed before he agrees to fight him.
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Deadspin summed it up perfectly:
>”Yes, he won the fight. He threw more punches and he landed more of them and he was the superior boxer, I guess. He won in the same way some neutral zone trap hockey team bleeds out another team. He clearly built his fighting style around with a calculated strategy of gaming the compubox system so that he gets credit for even the most cursory of punches. And he gets away with it because he always looks as if he can do more. It always feels like there’s some grand fusillade of punches in him that he never ends up having to deploy. He looks like he could unload if he ever felt like it, and so he gets an awful lot of credit for all the things he could do but is too shrewd to risk doing. The only time he ever goes on the offensive is when he’s fighting a woman.”
http://deadspin.com/floyd-mayweather-is-a-coward-1701842801
Basically he’s a b**ch. Mike Tyson was right. I’m glad that I didn’t pay to see that fight now.
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“Really, it’s the perfect boxing strategy for a man who is a documented wife-beater and sh*tbag: always doing just enough to get away with it.”
..and so it was hard to watch him d*ck around in the ring last night—turning what should have been a big fight into an extended sparring exercise—and not think, “Hey, that guy beats up women and fights like a fucking coward.” The art, in this case, is nearly impossible to separate from its creator. I know Floyd is a coward, and so I can’t help but thinking he fights the same way. Always ducking. Always running. The man will never pick a fight he knows he might lose.”
Thats why he was so terrified to go to jail. He’d have to get a boyfriend because the one place in the world you can’t front like you’re hard when you’re really soft is the penitentiary. They men like that all the time there and call them what they are.
Mike Tyson didn’t have a problem serving his time. Other boxers, real n*ggas, wasn’t scared to to jail like Mayweather was. “Money’s” a professional b*tch n*gga, and white people love him because as soon as he gets his check, he gives it right back to them.
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Just wondering if anyone is following the reclamation of the reefs in the South China Sea to create landing strips for planes and berths for ships?
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@jefe
Yes…I noticed talks on Cspan about possibly engaging Russia in a war damn near no one in America seems willing to fight it.
So many nations are making war preparations, including ours but what for?
That I knew was going on for a while but thanks for bringing it back to my attention again.
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I am not sure I understand how the reclamation in the South China Sea is related to engaging Russia in a war or any kind of war preparation, but several new developments in the past week or two has escalated the issue, following Obama’s meeting with Japan’s Abe and with the ASEAN conference last week:
* Obama bombasted China for using its power and might to bully its neighbours in SE Asia, e.g., the Philippines, esp. in staking claims to the South China Sea and told them they should stop the reclamation.
* China said BUTT OUT as
– the USA has no room (ie, no moral authority) to talk
– this is China’s domestic internal affairs
– “Asia is for Asians” — > an effort to garner support from Asian neighbors to dislodge the USA and its allies from the region’s security affairs (sounds a bit like Japan’s concept of the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere prior to WWII, and we know how that turned out).
* Obama reiterated that it had the obligation to support Japan in the event of any aggressive attack on the Senkaku (DiaoYu) islands.
* China warned ASEAN not to concern itself with the maritime disputes as these are nation to nation issue between China and the relevant countries (particularly the Philippines and Vietnam, but also Malaysia and Brunei) and will harm the relations between China and the ASEAN member nations.
* ASEAN, an alliance of 10 SE Asian countries retorted in concert with a stro ng rebuke that China, by pushing forward with their land reclamation and their rhetoric, has eroded trust and confidence from the ASEAN member country nations, undermining peace, security and stability.
In other words, ASEAN has told China that they reject the divide and conquer strategy that they promote. This is by far the strongest rebuke that ASEAN has communicated to China.
ASEAN has no power to enforce anything on China, but all the member country foreign ministers have been instructed to act accordingly. So now, China has to deal with 10 countries as a group on this (home to about 1/2 billion people), not just the 4 individual ones it has disputes with.
China reminds them to look at the big picture, how China can bring them peace and prosperity, but for the time being, ASEAN is not buying it. I wonder if China will try to pick off Indonesia from this, as China has no maritime dispute with Indonesia, which makes up about 40% of the population of ASEAN.
But China’s behavior seems to have the effect of encouraging its neighbours, together with the USA, to unite together on this shared interest. Those countries have a total of about 1 billion people.
Japan will has other maritime disputes with Korea and Russia, so it looks like they will be unlikely partners in this effort.
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@ mariareginacd:
To say that I was disappointed that Pacquiao didn’t win is an understatement. I watched the “fight”, if you can call it that, and Mayweather was pretty much hugging Pacquiao the entire time. There were moments when Pacquiao could’ve hit him with a flurry of shots, but he wasn’t as aggressive as he usually was. Maybe I’m too biased because I’m Filipino, but I really wished Pacquiao won.
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@Jefe
Japan will has other maritime disputes with Korea and Russia, so it looks like they will be unlikely partners in this effort.
No but Russia is one of the BRIC countries. Their top export is mining all of the metals and minerals that fuel the IT industries. Minerals like the deposits geologist believe to be in the sediment at the boom of the South China Sea.
China, if it came to war, would most likely ally with Russia and geographically as it stands now China is the only country in the world with Rare Earth Metals(The kind that are in tablets, android phones, lap tops ect.) And they just closed up their mines to us. And China has the industrial blueprints for most of our electronics, because they used to and still produce them. Even our own manufacturing industry uses machinery that’s manufactured in China.
The BRIC alliance is why the US is supporting, or to some people’s view agitating, aggression in the Ukraine, Russia’s bread basket. They’re trying to intimidate Russia into backing out of the BRIC but that’s not going to happen. That alliance is too profitable and for Russia to flex it’s muscle all it has to do is threaten to cut off the hydrocarbons, furs, and livestock it exports to Western Europe. All those countries have a split alliance between the US and Russia: Denmark for instance imports billions in ore, slag, ash and furs. All the Scandinavian Countries, Northern European countries have to, for their freezing winters. BUT they also eat a lot of pork and guess who the world’s leading exporter of grainfeed is? To basically every country in the world including the countries with a growing middle class(India, China, Mexico)?
The United States.
So if you had to pick between starving and freezing which would you pick?
Denmark, Holland, Sweden,Norway,Finland, ect all have stronger diplomatic ties with they United States and historical enmity to the Russians. And they lack the geographic resources, like enough arable land, to grow corn and soy feed for their livestock BUT in Denmark’s case most of their livestock is imported from Russia. And NONE of those countries have enough coal, iron ore, furs ect to sustain themselves if Russia decided to export elsewhere…like say…to the East Asian and the Middle East. I know many Afganis, many of whom are educated women, who preferred living under the Communists to living under the Fundamentalist Dictatorship that the US propped up in that region. Those people in those countries might be very open to trading with the Russia, China, and India. Just saying.
And the US currently produces none of those minerals or even geographically has a large enough supply to sustain our ourselves if it came to a war. Our corporations sold all those industries to South East Asia to lower production costs, and suppress labor movements, back in the 70’s. It would be more economically feasible, especially as the Middle East becomes more politically unstable- and exporting things becomes more cost prohibitive as the price of oil rises-and Middle Eastern social political that’s a beast we can’t tame with Isreal or about twenty years of failed covert missions and abysmal foreign policy. The only thing the US can do is starve or threaten to starve the Middle East with sanctions. But that will only work as long as some other Western Power, like…oh say…Russia, China or India or all three doesn’t step in to fill the void. You can only start so many uprisings, like Arab Spring, with food stoppages or shortages before people get tired of it. And as per Henry Kissinger’s foreign policy, we’ve played that “we’ll cut off the food” card so many times it’s becoming pretty predictable. Because food is and always has been our greatest weapon. For now, anyway.
For a rich politician or a businessmen(no difference in American politics) China shoring up what anyone would objectively consider to be their resources is a financial tragedy but most regular Americans can and will live just fine without the newest edition of the Iphone or The Galaxy. We might even start mining our own Iron Ore for steel again and be able to bring back the industry that built the currently dwindling and fast disappearing American middle class. But then that’s not as profitable as our buisness interests d*cking around in the Pacific or some other place we really have no business being now and trying to force or coerce exclusive access and control to a world resource.
I’m just trying to figure out how they’re going to sell another war to the American Public after the sh*$ty way the last three we’ve had went. According to a public opinion poll, most Americans feel like we should just focus on more pressing domestic matters like oh the crumbling infrastucture, the growing economic equality, or crummy education system petty little trifles like those. Not think up, yet another war, for out young, mostly brown black and low income men to die in.
I know too many people who’ve died or been permanently disabled in this decades Opium War- I mean War of Iraqi/Afghani Freedom(from the the tyrannical fundamentalist regime that the CIA trained and put into power in the first place) for me to not be the least bit troubled about the talks that are being conducted in Congress. I have several brothers about the age that would make them eligible for a draft(which is still legal under the Secret Service Contingency plan BTW). Being a low income black woman I also have many Uncles and Cousins who died, came back injured or heroin addicts in the first US opium war- I mean the The Vietnam War(Conflict? Since we lost?IDK).
So yeah among other things that’s been on my mind, especially since the Steel and Food Processing Industries- the biggest Mid Western Industries and most of the soy and corn that the US exports is grown there- would be directly impacted by events in that region of the world. I’m just seeing it from a more economic perspective since that’s what directly affects me. Well, really everyone since basically every war fought in human history is usually over resources, either acquisition or control. Even the World Wars were fought primarily over food, that’s why after Hitler invaded Poland, Stalin followed him two weeks later. That’s also why most of the Scandinavian countries supported Hitler until the Germans started losing. There’s a lot of economic interdepencies in the EU that complicate their foreign policies with the U.S. and Russia.
Even most of the U.S. Navy is in South East Asia for primarily two reasons: Fuel(Coal, Natural Gas)and Steel,Iron Ore(shipbuilding materials) Japan is just our wedge and most countries have WAY more cultural, political and historical enmity with the Japanese than the Chinese.
If it ever came to taking sides the US would be in a really sh*ty position because globally we’ve spent a great deal of our goodwill and most of the lower classes don’t trust the government enough to go die in yet another pointless winnable war. At least that’s my take on it.
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Sorry some corrections:
“Minerals like the in the deposits geologists believe to be in the sediment at the bottom of the South China Sea.”
“And Middle Eastern social economic policy is a beast we can’t tame with Isreal or about twenty years of failed covert missions and abysmal foreign policy.
“But then, that’s not as profitable( to certain non majority segments of society) as our business interests d*cking around in the Pacific or some other place we really have no business being now and trying to force exclusive access to or coerce control of a world resource.”
“Not to think up, yet another war, for our young, mostly brown black and low income men to die in.”
“Most of the lower classes don’t trust the government enough to go die in yet another pointless unwinnable war. At least that’s my take on it.”
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@ Leigh
I heard people who did watch it say that the fight sucked and..I wish Pacqiao had won too. But the fact that “Money” dragged this fight out for so many years probably had a lot to do with that. Boxers start losing more once they age and Mayweather obviously had that in mind.
I hate the fact that Mayweather made so much money from that fight though. Money is living up to his name and laughing all the way to the bank. I hate wifebeaters generally but at Miles Davis and Ike Turner made good music. That b**ch n**ga can’t even bring himself to hit another man, like he hit the mother of his kids. And like… that’s his whole job.
Maywather’s camp took away the press credentials of Rachelle Nichols and another female sports anchor because they asked him about the domestic violence. I heard Pacqiao’s promoter was shady as f*.k too.Did you hear anything about that?
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^ The only thing I’ve heard of so far regarding Pacquiao and his promoter is that they’re being sued for consumer fraud. I think around five million dollars, if I’m not mistaken. Apparently, two people were upset Pacquiao and his camp didn’t disclose his shoulder injury and went on with the fight. Is that what you mean?
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@leigh204
I am going to be honest. I was hot mad that Pacquiao lost. I tried to play it off like I did not care, but yea….I cared. I cared hard. I am still steaming from it.
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@Maria
Nice avatar.
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@leigh204
Yes, that and I also heard that Mayweather might have bribed the fight promoter or something and that he has ties to Mayweather’s camp. it wouldn’t be the first time in boxing.
@sharinalr
It’s an android from a steampunk anime called Battle Angel Alita 🙂
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Have you guys seen this nice story?
https://gma.yahoo.com/michigan-teen-invites-mom-prom-learning-why-she-201601637–abc-news-MothersDay.html
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@Jefe
¿Es usted hispano o latino en? Mi padre es de Panamá. Necesita aprender espanol.
I hope I conjugated that right, but I hope I didn’t come across as b..chy. US policy is just so retarded sometimes, even for it’s unstated purposes it causes more problems than it solves. Most of the global policing our military and government does is to fix our own mistakes and I’m already poor enough as it is. I can’t keep funding this kind of b.llsh.t. None of us can.
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If anyone is on Mochalink, Duolingo and would like to do language exchange with me, Please let me know. I willing to pay a good proofreader as well. I don’t care what language.
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@mariareginacd,
Lo siento, no soy Hispano o Latino (Sorry, I am not Hispanic or Latino), although I was often mistaken as such in the USA (and overseas too). My knowledge of Spanish is still probably at an early Intermediate level, and at best, it my 7th best language.
But when you say, “Necesita aprender espanol.”, are you referring to yourself, your father or “usted” (ie, me?)? If you are referring to yourself, check the conjugation.
But you are correct that “jefe” is from Spanish for “boss”, “chief”.
Just a reminder that Abagond’s comment policy requires that all comments not in English be translated into English as well.
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@jefe
Ah, thanks for the reminder. And I was asking you so I used the informal. I accidentally typed “necessita” when it should have been “necessito“.
My English and Spanish grammar is a little confused because of the fact that I was so used to German syntax and grammar. That’s why I write so many words, lmao. Even though I don’t speak the language I, think in it. I’m trying to org anise all of the various languages I have in my head. I don’t know how people like Nabokov did it. I can either listen and reply in English if I can understand it (Spanish,French) or I can read and write it decently enough(Danish, German, French) but not speak/listen very well. Even with German especially it really depends on the person I’m speaking to and what part of Germany they’re from. But for some reason with French and Spanish it makes no difference whether they’re from Europe or the Americas. I’ll understand enough to follow the conversation, I just can’t particpate because my vocabulary is limited…because I’m too lazy to study and not a confident speaker, lol. Espceially with some cultures. Venezuelans always correct your Spanish and I appreciate it but I get to embarrassed to talk. Same thing with Germans.
I’m getting better though I think. I honestly study languages for fun, i would love to be a polyglot if I thought I was even remotely capable of it.
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mariareginacd = AlitaRegina?
On several instances, Abagond banned sock puppets on sight if they didn’t explain first that they changed their name.
It seems like you are interested only in European (Germanic and Romance) languages? Have you tried anything that is less similar to English or uses a writing system not based on Latin letters?
That is one thing I miss about living in New York. There, I could use 10-12 different languages in a single day if I wanted.
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@Kiwi,
Your selected soundbites seem to assume that Asians and Hispanics were assimilating more quickly with whites than with blacks, but the article suggests something else even more important – the issue of Asians and Hispanics more able to find partners with shared ethnic backgrounds, and thus, perhaps, we should expect a decrease in Asian-white and Hispanic-white marriages going forward.
The article suggests that what is being observed is actually an accelerated breakdown of barriers between whites and blacks.
I noticed the article was silent about Black-Asian marriages and their children.
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This is the third year without my mother. I admit I feel sad on Mother’s Day, but my sister and I have this tradition of celebrating Mother’s Day as if she were here. Well, she is, in our hearts. First, we’re going to visit her and place flowers and little gifts surrounding her headstone, say a little prayer and talk about the good times. Then we’re off to her favorite restaurant. Mother’s Day is easier because my sister and I can lean on each other. Anyway, Happy Mother’s Day to all! 🙂
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Thanks for sharing.
My mother has been gone for 17 years. I always wonder how best to celebrate Mother’s day.
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@Kiwi
The banning of the SharkFin Trade in my opinion is just industrial racism and institutional protectionism. People have been hunting marine animals for thousands of years and while I don’t doubt that some species are affected by it there are NUMEROUS other reasons certain species of sharks could be going extinct. Like chemical runoff and xenoestrogens affecting the reproductive cycles of animals, or ozone depletion affecting the plankton and krill that marine animals eat. I don’t know how people single out hunting or fishing as the cause of species endangerment whenever an animal population drops. People said the same thing about hunters in Indiana. They claimed the wolves were dying off because of farmers and hunters shooting them but they were actually dying off because of human encroachment into their habitat in general and that was making them too inbred to repopulate so wolves have begun breeding with coyotes and there is some kind of hybrid species called Coywolves that are running around. And they have attacked and killed several people, including a Nova Scotian folk singer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans
They environmentalists, not conservationists because most hunters and fishers were conservationists, always f.ck with the hunters because they kill animals but, they manage the ecosystem by keeping the deer and coyotes from overpopulating. Coyotes especially are HUGE problem. They’re the mammalian equivalent of cockroaches and they’re ALL over the Eastern Coast now, apparently with wolf genetic admixture which is just…an ecological time bomb waiting to happen,in terms of rabies. They’re even in NYC. And they’re getting BOLD. And wild animals are dangerous, there are actually valid safety reasons to kill them. One of the steps to predation is stalking and urban populations basically train them to prey on humans without realizing it by feeding them and playing with them and treating coyotes and foxes like pets. Especially with foxes, I know they look cute but as the attacks in London demonstrate:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125763/Parents-tell-horror-fox-attacks-sleeping-baby.html
They are WILD f.cking animals, they’ll just as soon eat your baby as they’ll play with it. Especially wild dogs, OMG. That’s why calling someone a dog is an insult. I’m not going to get into the postives and the negatives of fox hunting btu the main reasons rural populations started killing them in the first place was because they attacked humans. A fox even killed all the hens in Prince Charle’s hen house. Foxes do that for some reason, I think its for hording in times of scarity or an adrenal rush or something but they will go into a henhouse and kill every hen in it. Besides the monetary loss to a chicken farmer, there’s also the danger of zooilogical illnesses and parasites like rabies and diseases being spread from wild animals to domesticated ones.
The coyotes in particular worries me because like coyotes are scavengers who eat anything…and HELLO outbreak. Even bats spread rabies, and a bat bite looks like a mosquito bite. I saw a video of two coywolves running down and killing a full grown buck, and people warned about that happening years ago. If they will kill a full grown male deer they will easily kill a child under the age od two if they think they can get away with it. And there have been attacks on children in urban and rural areas the same time the deer population is decreasing.
Nature finds a way and animals do not need our help in most cases to survive. People get too arrogant and think that because we have the guns and the house we’re the dominant species but we’re still competing with them! All those conservation programs did was unleash a kind of wolf that basically cannot be killed or stopped because the more you kill coyotes the more they breed to replace themselves. Coyotes used to not be able to kill deer because of their anatomy but now these hybrids are attacking and killing deer and people in rural areas because they’ve learned how and they apparently have the biological ability to do it and they hunt in packs but they also scavenge!
It’s easy for people who study something in a controlled environment to try to take that into the wild but these hunters and fishers live with these animals. They love and respect them enough to know when to be wary of them and stay away.
What worries me about coyotes is all these stray dogs running around NYC. Coyotes are very stealth and…they either eat or f.ck other dogs. There could be thousands of them hiding in dens under ground and you might only see one or two and I know Coydogs sound awesome, but whatever diseases or parasites coyotes have they will pass to domesticated dogs. And NYC is densely populated but extremely unsantiary…and…it’s just a rabies outbreak waiting to happen.
All of the hybrids that have attacked and killed people have gotten away without being shot, so they’re teaching that behavior to other Coywolves. And that is scary as f.ck.
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@ Kiwi
So cool, but I do not want to mess with one.
This is why I stopped smoking weed, for a LOONG time. I was at a party in Michigan, and I was talking to someone and I was VERY high, as I was in those days, and I just noticed these two glowing yellow orbs floating in the shadows.
I saw them in the corner of my eye and whenever I turned around they would disappear and me and my friend had been walking through a wooded area and we were so involved in whatever we had been talking about we didn’t realize how close we were to the woods.
We saw some fur and we realized we weren’t just imagining things because we finally saw it staring at us, we started backing away towards the direction we had come. And it just kept following and watching us. We were starting to get really freaked out and scared so when we finally reached the last stretch we heard like a grumble and, you’re not supposed to do this, but we started screaming and running for our lives.
I actually left my friend behind. Because I’m a survivor. And it was a coyote stalking us because when we got back to my friends house we saw it more clearly.
I didn’t get high again for a very long time and every shadow I saw for he rest of the night made me start screaming. I know I was high and I was probably just paranoid but whatever- that was scary.
And then I was thanked god for saving me and I promised never to smoke weed again. And I didn’t, for many years.
The first time I ever saw a coyote in Detroit it was chasing a Toyota Corolla and I thought it was a dog but it was running so fast I couldn’t even see it clearly.
The scary thing is what happened to me was exactly how this Canadian Folk Singer, Taylor Mitchell died:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto-singer-killed-by-coyotes/article4296523/
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@Kiwi
And I noticed racist people stalk you too. I can say so many stories about that but the one that I remember most was when I dated this Eurasian guy in Toronto named Fengee.
Fenggee was actually in his early forties, but he really didn’t look like it, I honestly thought he was in his early twenties until I saw his passport. Since Fengge was still a bachelor when his work day was over he loved to party and get dressed up and go out and spend his money on women. When I first started casually dating him we lived in the same gated condo area that I was sharing with some people. There were several students or temporary visa people in the area who did this(GTA has no apartments). So I would walk everyday from the Pacific Mall and I always saw this guy on a motorcycle and I thought he was a delivery person and once he gave a card for the place that I thought he “worked”(he owned it) so I would come in to get food not realizing he owned the restaurant. And that was how I had the Shark Fin soup because I asked him about it and we went out to dinner together and had it and that was when I realized he owned the restaurant, he was a micromanager because he was a perfectionist. But that was a his general nature and also a reaction to Canadian Asian Racism. He even said, “When I make a mistake here, it’s not a mistake it’s breaking the law. I can’t ever mess up now that I’ve made it to this level because I might lose everything.” He did that on purpose too because the worst racism came at him every time he wouldn’t hide the fact that he was successful and financially well off.
It was so obvious that all the racism was just an Asian Man being successful and happy and not tiptoeing around white people. AND the fact that he was a serial dater and constantly had different good looking women in his house or his car. THAT was the reason he got so much grief and lost so much money. He was a flirt and a sharp dresser and he always drove luxury cars or rode motorcycles. Everyday driving alone or with me or our other friends he would get pulled over in Markham, Vaughn or St.Catherine’s when he was driving in a luxury car.
But it was only when he drove a nice car like a Porsche. When Fenggee drove his work van into Markham, the one he used for catering, he could run red lights and drive in the middle of the road and never so much as get pulled over! He drove home completely wasted drunk after a catering event one night all the way from Hamilton Ontario to Scarborough and nobody said anything. Sometimes he would play up his accent and over enunciate or mispronounce his words just to get people to leave him alone.
When we started dating seriously the people who harassed us the most were White People of both sexes. Black and Asian people never said anything or were generally nice. For business reasons Fenngee decided to open a restaurant in Markham and St. Catherine’s and no sooner had the ink dried on the mortgage agreement than people were complaining about him, his business and us over trivial b.llsh.t. Fenngee was constantly getting fined and ticketed for things that we didn’t even do. The neighbors claimed his dogs barked too loud when out East Indian neighbors didn’t even realize that we had dogs when we first moved into that house. Fenngee hired one of our friends from St.Kitts to take care of his plants and aquariums the neighbors called the cops on him and said he was breaking and entering… even though we had given him a key and he had a work truck.
When we had parties on the weekend during the day the local police or the neighbors would pull up outside or find reasons to walk around by our house just to see what we were doing. When we invited them to come have a drink or eat with us, they always had something else to do but they somehow had the time to walk into our backyard uninvited and act like we didn’t cut the grass on the front lawn or find some weird reason just to chastise us for something trivial.
One of our neighbors mistakenly got some mail of his. And they returned it to us, but THEY OPENED IT. They actually opened his bank and financial statements. Not the junk mail but the credit card and bank statements. I think they were trying to figure out how Fengge made enough money to live in that neighborhood but…the invasion of privacy was just so absurd and unnecessary as to be racist. We found one of our neighbors in St. Catherines snooping in our garage when they thought that we weren’t home. We left to go around the corner to get something from the store at the same time we would have been out for the day, and we came back to find this old white man in our garage going through our stuff. One of the dogs was in a cage sleeping and he claimed that he was there because it had been barking or something. When it was clearly asleep. And he was picking up tools and opening cabinets.
When Fengges businesses picked up all of the sudden he started getting inspected or cited for violations because people would just call Revenue Canada or the CIC bureau and make bullsh.t complaints. And for all that he was still making bank but we both got so stressed out during this period it put a strain on the relationship. He got an ulcer. I went to the hospital with low potassium levels. twice. He started drinking more. And we were just like so miserable even though technically he was making more money. And he moved to Taiwan eventually. Many of the working class people who immigrate to Canada just leave eventually.
This is why when people don’t mind their business I’m immediately wary of them. Like I do not like it when people who bear me ill will watch me closely looking for something to attack me over, it’s very predatory and that’s how a lot of people with ISM attitudes act.
They feel as if they are superior and since they view you as inferior to them, they constantly find excuses to be all all up in your d.mn face over nothing because they want to monitor you and better control you.
Besides being aggravating, especially in a professional environment, it’s very frightening too. Especially for me, I have social anxiety and I’m very shy a lot of the time. I do not like being…watched. I’ve never had an instance of racist/sexist/classist stalking that wasn’t predatory and malicious in intent and action.
I seriously still can’t believe they just opened his mail and looked at Fengee’s financial statements. And they didn’t apologize about or act ashamed of it either. That multiculturalism in Canada and Europe is great when people actually embrace it, but in practice it’s a cover for a lot of malignant racism and Canadian “politeness” is just cowardice, they don’t like confrontation in general, but the racist ones constantly sneakily do things to provoke confrontation, but act ignorant and innocent when you call them on it. All those racist stalking incidents still make my heart race because some instances turned violent or threatening at the drop of a dime for no reason. No one ever stalks people for a good reason.
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@Kiwi
My other comment explaining the Sharkfin/Coywolves connect is in moderation or something but that’s a Coyote Wolf hybrid that’s all over the east now.
People point to hunters and fishers as being the cause when an animal population drops unexpectedly but I know in the case TimberWolves there was genetic problems and also inbreeding issues that made their population numbers drop and now they’ve interbred with coyotes. And these coywolves are…I think they’re going to be a big problem. Urban populations tend to view animals with a kind of anthropomorism that’s ignorant and unrealistic. The foxes attacking people, particularly babies in London is why I think many people shouldn’t tell people who live in rural or other areas what to do. There was so much outrage over foxhunting but farmers killed foxes and coyotes for a reason. People in cities feed them and play with them and now they have feel bold enough to attack people. Foxes will kill an entire henhouse, they did it to Prince Charles and to the extent that everyone eats that can not only impoverish a chicken farmer but starve people or at least make the price of food go up. That’s a community problem. The animals are just being wild and in the foxes case, trapping them or scaring them off doesn’t always work with the bolder ones. Hunts are long and boring as h.ll and people don’t have the advantage just because of whatever weapons we have, you still have to be smart and patient to be a hunter or a fisher.
There’s a reason why hunters kill certain predators and coyworlves and foxes are cute but they’re so dangerous and they’re getting very bold with humans in urban areas. And that one in particular really worries me because of the fact that it’s been in the news for attacking and killing many people, many of whom have been children. The ones who have attacked people haven’t been caught or shot so that behavior is going to be passed on to their young. Coy wolves are basically coyotes that hunt like wolves and breed rapidly and they scavenge.
So nature finds a way, it doesn’t need people to help it do anything.
Many Hunters and Fishers are conservationists too and besides the racism of banning Shark Fin Trade, what annoys me is the scapegoating a lot of environmentalists do of those two groups. It’s easy to idealize nature when you don’t live with it and not getting into the rights and wrongs of hunting and fishing as an entity, most hunters have to do some killing for population management but if an animal is endangered it’s rarely from overhunting alone. Human encroachment on habitat, diseases, chemical manipulation of DNA especially xenoestrogens that mess with both human and animal reproductive cycles can be one of MANY causes for species endangerment.
I really side eye a lot claims people make about this or that animal trade endangering some species. Everything people do endangers the ecosystem equally and hunters and fishers are the lowest on a long line of offenders but they’re the easy to demonise because they have the blood on their hands but anyone who eats anything or wears anything does too. It’s not just or only the hunters/fishers.
I consider that environmental racism too: Europeans have a huge fur and fishing industry and yet no one ever aggressively legislates against them for doing the same thing that hunters and fishers all over the world and throughout human history have done and do. If hunting and fishing was really killing certain species, like Sharks or elephants and rhinos, I would imagine they would have died out a long time ago and punishing poachers for selling animal products is like punishing sex workers for selling sex. If you really wanted to get rid of the trade you would just punish the customers not the sellers.
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@ Kiwi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125763/Parents-tell-horror-fox-attacks-sleeping-baby.html
People have said that they’ve tried to report the Coywolf attacks to agencies and they’ve been ignored. This is just like that woman from who was imprisoned for seven years when a Dingo took her baby at a camp site in Australia and everyone thought she killed her baby until they found the baby’s jumper buried somewhere. She kept telling people for years that a Dingo took her baby from the camp site and everyone said she was a satanist.
That’s the classic country and city divide that’s going to cause so many problems if those Coywolves come further into Urban areas, they’re already in NYC and Chicago. White Canadians are drilling for tarsands on Native Land in Alberta…like they have no right to talk to someone else about environmental issues. Nobody has any right to tell someone else something about where they don’t even live. Escpecially too cowardly to admit to being just as racist as Americans White Canadians.
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http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/judge-orders-competency-hearing-ohio-woman-who-accused-employer-rape-0:
______________________________________________________________
Dani Brewer had been working as a branch manager in a new office for about a month when she said her employer – a family friend – sexually assaulted her in October, reported WXIX-TV.
She reported the attack late last year, but the case has not yet gone to trial.
Brewer said a judge ordered a hearing this week to determine whether she was competent – which both she and her attorneys believe is unfair.
“It’s really ridiculous that it’s being required of me,” Brewer said. “It’s insulting, it’s invasive, it’s upsetting, and I feel like I’m on trial.”
The Justice League of Ohio, a victims advocacy legal group, is baffled by the judge’s order.
“Generally speaking, all adults are presumed competent,” said attorney Elizabeth Well. “This is not an issue that you see raised very often.”
______________________________________________________________
Until now, because under the banner of healthcare reform,psychotropic medication is going to be used to silence civil unrest and hide social problems like sexual assault and labor rights abuses.
That’s why I never reported any of mine. I like being able to think and not be made into an Alzheimer’s Dementia Patient just because I reported wrongdoing.
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“My fear is that, in the future, not just women, but victims of crime – any crime – may be fearful to come forward,” Well said.
The judge and the defendant are not identified in the TV station’s report on the case.
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@Kiwi
Omg, that sounds awesome XD
Whatever for that stuff, would you please post on here anything you want to share about the research you’re working on?
I’d love to hear some more, especially about neuroregeneration whenever you have the time.
Congratulations ❤
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Another black man found hanging in Greensboro, Georgia after being questioned of death of white woman. Roosevelt Chapman was found hanging from a tree.
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@leigh204: Mother’s Day was especially hard for me as well. Glad it’s over.
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@King: Yes, I read about the teen who took his mom to the prom. That was very sweet.
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@ Mary Burrell:
*hugs*
Mother’s Day and Christmas always hit me hard. When it’s Mother’s Day, I see all these mothers out with their children, and knowing my mom is no longer around, I’ve broken down and cried. As for Christmas, I loved visiting my mom because she would prepare such tasty homecooking, and the best part was spending time with her. She was such a thoughtful and caring woman. *sniff* An image of her smiling suddenly made me teary eyed. Ahhh, mothers rule the world.
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@Uncle Milton
PAUSE
I know all about different writing styles and no…no their writing styles are not that different, although they’re obviously been tailored to appear as if they are by someone with very little writing composition skills or talent.
And most male attention whores on the internet pick female or minority aliases when they want to attack a female and/or a minority. Several people have been caught doing it on here and it’s always obvious as h.ll.
So what about the guest posting? That just proves my point about the attention whoredom. I couldn’t care less if people read or comment on what I write. And I only comment on people’s posts to agree with them or ask them questions, I never comment to argue, because if I don’t like what they write I just don’t read it.
Abagond always did attract misogynist trolls so I’m not surprised that Jefe has done guests posts and has groupies that will jump up to defend him.
Men always stick together to gang up on women, just like white people stick together to gang up on black people. It’s cowardice in both cases and I know b..ch moves when I see them. Women did invent b..ch moves after all. And my point was that out of the authentic Chinese food I had eaten, that and PinYin eggs,Congee tasted good and Shark Fin Soup was banned in CANADA because of racism.
You’ve never even eaten it have you? And neither has he. So his opinion on the taste was just him talking out of his a.s and being but hurt about the fact that I apparently know more from actual experience than he does from regurgitating someone else’s rhetoric that hasn’t even been proven for a fact or make any logical sense.
And AGAIN I wasn’t even talking TO EITHER OF YOU so jumping into my discussion with another commenter was him and you being attention whores and trying to dominate the board.
And until Abagond explicitly says “Women are only allowed to talk amongst themselves if they don’t point out the flaws in male commenters arguments.” Until Abagond says that I’m going to state my opinion if I feel the need to do so.
Comparing a hunting/fishing or anything to do with animals with HUMAN slavery was a dumb f.cking argument right from jump. One is necessary, and the law of nature. Animals hunt other animals out of necessity. People need meat and food, no one needs free labor. I don’t know where the f.ck he pulled that gem of wisdom from, but this is why men are terrible debaters. Their ego gets so caught up in proving superiority that much of the time they completely miss the point of the entire statement that he took issue with and that wasn’t even directed at him.
That wasn’t even addressed at either of you and I am as entitled to my opinion as he is entitled to his. But I wasn’t trying to shut him out of the discussion just because he made some facile ignorant comparisons that didn’t even really make sense. I don’t write for attention( if I was I would find a way to be more concise, I write long a.S sh.t deliberately just so that people who try to start flame wars will ignore what I write) just like Abagond doesn’t write his blog for white people, I would argue that Abagond’s doesn’t even write this blog for women but that’s his experiences and perspective I’m not going to argue with those, I’m just going to state mine. For me this is one of the few racial safe spaces on the internet and we’re all catching a lot of hell from racism at the moment, that’s why I’m here. Not to stir sh.t, or silence people I may not always agree with.
Later for you. And why do guys always do that? Every time their boy makes an a.s of himself they jump in to protect their “friend’s” honor.
It’s so weird when men get together to act so misogynist they don’t realize how gay they come across. It’s essentially the “Homies over Hoes” defense and it’s just as gay as that was.
Why do you think Abagond doesn’t cosign misogyny or that BS Jefe/Naishee were doing? Abagond actually likes black women and he’s strait. He’s made several posts about that and most of what comes across as misogyny is his personal experiences and opinions much like his personal experiences and opinions with race but Abagond actually likes women, he’s not gay.
I get that men and women have grievances and resentments and ish, especially in the black community. But when Men try to shut women out of things…it just looks REALLY gay. Women and black people need their own spaces for safety reasons. Men and anyone on the higher end of a power imbalance need their own spaces for privilege reasons because the only men who need protection from women are b.tch made or gay and they don’t like competing with women for male attention. So they bash women to get closer to other men.
When, presumably black, men get together to attack women they all sound like Ganstalicious to me:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fzuXQF_wIU)
I’m just saying. Someone needs to point it out.
TLDR; Just…PAUSE on your whole comment and have a good day.
❤ Deuces ❤
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is how men like Jefe/Uncle Milton and some commentators sound when they try to force women out of racial safe spaces:
__________________________________________________________________
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Do the homie! Do the homie!
Do the homie! Do the homie!
You never catch the ‘lish, rollin with no b.tch
Cause b..ches ain’t shit, you saw my crew is thick
Whole bunch of knuckleheads, the bald heads and dreads
Ni..a, we hatin on them hoes like we hate the feds
B..ch, can’t you see?! Fall back away from me
Me and my ni..as bumpin CHEST in the VIP
Now bump it to the left, and bump it to the right
Cause when you do the homie, ni..a got to do it right
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Do the homie! Do the homie!
Do the homie! Do the homie!
Cause b..ches be trouble, be havin ni..as beefin
You trickin on that ho, and yo’ ni..as ain’t eatin
She pushin yo’ whip, spendin all yo’ cash
Yo’ homie got shot up, while you was in dat a>s
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Homies over hoes, homies over hoes
Do the homie! Do the homie!
Do the homie! Do the homie!
_________________________________________________________________
I just chalk it up to immaturity on some strait men’s part, that whole “lets all talk over the woman together just to overpower her” that some men never seem to grow out of but…not all of misogyny is “girls versus boys”a lot of it is ” I don’t like women, but I like men…I like men A LOT to the point that I find women to be personally threatening”.
I mean if SOME men on the board want it all to themselves and don’t want black women expressing their own opinions, then I’ll gladly leave them to their private activities but I thought this was Abagond’s not DNAInfo.
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It’s sad when I have to quote “A Pimp Named Slickback” just to explain why male misogyny is a slippery slope to inadvertant or intentional gayness But I got to now:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHzm-wPTr8)
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OK.
This is just so that any time when you listen to an artist in modern times and think that they are talented, that you will henceforth know better. Lol!
Exhibit A
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUWSR68cnUQ)
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Abagond, please consider doing a post on BB King.
Along with Jimi, BB was my favourite guitar player of all time. I’ve cried like a kid several times since the news broke.
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Abagond,
I know right now your focus is on what is happening in the USA, but I must say, that sometimes I feel that when you say “black” — you only mean black Americans.
Alot of bad sh’t is happening around the world that is barely receiving mention in the media and I don’t see “black” people talking about it or even understanding the implications of what it means
The USA is supporting an openly racist government– Israel — who have admitted that they don’t want black people in Israel. They have been mistreating the Ethiopian Jews, who they sought out and brought to Israel back in the 80s.
The Ethiopians just staged a protest in Israel and referenced “Freddie Gray”
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/israel-ethiopian-jews-rally-police-brutality-150503155817247.html
ISIL recently murdered 20 Africans on a beach and claimed they were Ethiopian Christians– Lies.
Some of those people were Eritrean refugees, who were held in a concentration camp in the deserts of Israel, then deported to Libya.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/04/22/deported-to-death-israel-sent-african-refugees-to-their-eventual-death-at-isis-hands/
That means every black person who pays taxes is supporting a country, Isreal, that is presently deporting African refugees to foreign countries (instead of country of origin) and sending them to their Deaths!
Gdam, black and brown people are being MURDERED around the world right now
with full consent and support by the US and European governments and anyone who tries to support them, are getting put down….
can these black deaths be high lighted every once in a while too !
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@ Linda
Excellent suggestion. I will do a post on Blacks in Israel. It is long overdue.
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@ Pumpkin
I will do a post on the “Princess of North Sudan” on Monday, God willing.
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@ Kiwi
The irony is that the lab has its fair share of Jewish and Asian staff members, which must mean that they have to tolerate it to some degree and bite their tongues so as not to incur reprisals.
That’s why they make the jokes. If White People could make the grades they wouldn’t need to make racist jokes. I had a lot of that BS in academia too and I always pointed out the fact that even though I was the only black woman, where ever I did have the highest grades. I bet if you were the only Asian person there then they’d be super respectful because then their unwarranted sense of superiority wouldn’t feel threatened.
In Canada a lot of them have stopped going to the University of Toronto because it’s too non White Canadian. Also they’re too stupid to get in.
I don’t plan to stop eating meat anytime soon, so I don’t see why I should feel guilty about animal experimentation when I don’t even feel guilty about animal slaughter for food.
I stopped eating meat for two reasons, Lupus and because I was going through an “I don’t want to hurt anything, live and let live phase”. Although except my birthday the choice has never bothered me. And It does extend to my cosmetics and toiletries, which do experiment on animals. Not my clothes because I can’t afford to buy cruelty free clothing, which I hate. But 3/4 isn’t bad to my reasoning. I don’t think animal slaughter or experimentation is necessarily inhumane. I just don’t like to be party to it.
I don’t like being party to bonded labor slavery but you have to pick your battles I guess.
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@Kiwi
I find it odd that Asian women and other non-white women have a higher rate of STD than white women.
I find it equally odd the rationale of Asian men at fault for Asian Women STD.
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Sons of Anarchy:The Reality Show Edition
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/17/us/texas-shooting/index.html
5 biker gangs involved in a restaurant shootout that left 9 dead & 18 injured.
No mention yet of the race of these “thugs” or whether or not their whiteness compelled them to do what they did.
I wonder what Faux News will have to say about it. These gangs are always looked at in a romanticized fashion but the truth is they scrap and shoot in the streets just like the Bloods and Crips and cook up/sell more meth and coke than both combined.
Even though they make up a disproportionate representation in them not a single word tying Whites to being in bike gangs pathologically. The double standard and agenda is clear.
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@ Sharina & Kiwi
I don’t understand the STI contraction accusation either. Doesn’t everyone CHOOSE their sexual partners and how/where/why they have sex with them? If so then using protection is a mutual choice between the man and the woman and therefore they both deserve equal responsibility. Not to mention that many of the contractions are just based on anatomy. Its easier for a woman to contract from a man than vice versa because woman’s sexual organs are internal whereas a mans are external. Based on how high promiscuity is amongst the under 25 & collegiate crowd its safe to reason that just as many men who are healthy are unknowingly having sex with woman who are infected yet based on the aforementioned biological factor aren’t contracting as often.
Theirs no ownership or accountability in the claim of someone “giving” you an STI. If you engage in risky behavior then you have to take what goes with playing that game. Now I could see if two people were married or in a committed relationship and one betrayed the other but lets be honest, that’s not the deal in most cases. Its a sub-group of people engaging in promiscuity, hook-up culture, and no strings sex with one another and constantly trading bodily fluids leading to higher occurrences of infection. I have no moral judgement of women or men getting around, do what (or who) you feel. Just don’t complain about the consequences to choices you consciously made when you knew they were always a possibility.
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@Alita
Just to clarify my points before the responses get too off point.
You claim: The quotes “Do not bring black into your pedigree.” And “In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years.” Are Muhammad words in the Koran.
My Point: They are not the same and the quotes can not be found in the Koran. They are part of the Hadith.
You claimed: Most Christians think slavery is wrong because our religion teaches that it’s wrong.
My Point: Christianity taught that slavery was acceptable. Bible versus show ways to conduct life with slavery. It does not really say slavery is good or bad. It does not say that God agreed or Disagreed with it. The purpose of freeing the isralites was to set his people free. There is no indication that other slaves were set free in this act or his intention was to set others free.
You claimed: And it still doesn’t go on today though
My point: It does go on today. Slavery is a hidden crime of USA. One often ignored.
I have made my points and I see no point in rehashing those points. So on that note I would rather just agree to disagree. At any rate Islam and Christianity have only one difference. The method they use to do the same things.
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@ Sharinalr
From the Genghis Khan thread:
I never said anything about God or Jesus condoning slavery. What I did say was “Slavery actually was acceptable in Christianity.”
If God doesn’t condone it then it’s not acceptable in Christianity. Anymore than God condones the selling of orphaned children as sex slaves that the Catholic Church does or any of the evil things that Institution gets up to. Many Christians don’t follow the Church because of this, that particular institutional abuse system is why there are so many different Christian Denominations.
Do quote the scripture that says god will punish Christians for enslaving?
….Do I really need to quote the entire book of Exodus and recite the ten plagues of Egypt that God threw upon the Pharaoh? One of which was killing all the first born of the Egyptians because they wouldn’t let the Hebrews out of bondage after he sent his prophet Moses to tel the Pharaoh to do that? Again people always take things out of context in the Bible. That was the whole point of that story.
Do people actually read the Bible? Like all of it instead of just bits and pieces of it?
Nothing I took out of the Koran was out of context. And you’re still ignoring the fact that Jesus didn’t keep slaves like Muhammed did.
This is all from the New Testament:
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.Romans 13:9
For all the slow people that was Jesus explaining the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Does slavery fall under that definition? Jesus probably didn’t talk about it because he didn’t keep slaves but where exactly does slavery fall under that quote?
Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.Galatians 6:7
Again what goes around comes around, whatever you don’t want to have happen to you, you must not do to other people.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.2 Corinthians 5:10
There are numerous quotes that God will judge people for sinning. And Jesus himself NEVER says that its okay to enslave black people like Muhammad does. And I don’t remember and racialization of Heaven in the Bible. You’re distorting it to fit this argument that doesn’t apply to Islamic Slavery versus Christian Slavery because Christ was not a slaver like Mohammed was.
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@Sharinalr
My point: It does go on today. Slavery is a hidden crime of USA. One often ignored.
This is my point before it goes off the rails. Or I provide to many facts and references to back up my point.
The reason it’s hidden is because people DON’T condone it. If Christians en masse tolerated slavery in this country then it wouldn’t need to be hidden and because it wouldn’t be a crime.
There’s a lot hypocrisy in what Christians don’t count as slavery but that’s why it’s hypocrisy and its wrong.
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@Sharinalr
Did I oversimplify that enough for you so you don’t have to do so much reading on what is essentially an electronic message board?
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@Sharinalr
At any rate Islam and Christianity have only one difference. The method they use to do the same things.
That was exactly my point from the very point the very beginning. I was just arguing that the method wasn’t that different.
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@AlitaRegina
“If God doesn’t condone it then it’s not acceptable in Christianity.”—False slavery was acceptable with out God saying he condoned it or not based on interpretations. Christianity acts and accepts things regardless of God all the time. Trying to claim they do not is false on all fronts.
“gain people always take things out of context in the Bible.”—Kind of like you are doing. Those people were free because they were chosen people. You are using that as a means to say God was freeing the slaves or was against slavery. That passage does not support that.This is your interpretation.
“And you’re still ignoring the fact that Jesus didn’t keep slaves like Muhammed did.”—I am not ignoring it, but I do realize it is a derailment from what I am actually saying. I never claimed Jesus owned slaves and I never claimed Muhammed did not. So it has no purpose.
“For all the slow people that was Jesus explaining the Golden Rule.”—You again presented something that does not refute what I said or presented. So unless you are calling yourself slow then please save the name calling for when you actually can and are refuting what I said. You presented quotes from the bible and not one thus far says god saw slavery as bad. Again your interpretation.
“There are numerous quotes that God will judge people for sinning.”—But where does it say slavery is a sin?
“You’re distorting it to fit this argument that doesn’t apply to Islamic Slavery versus Christian Slavery because Christ was not a slaver like Mohammed was.”—Yet I made no argument of Islamic slavery versus Christian Slavery. That is all you boo. I said “Christianity taught that slavery was acceptable. Bible versus show ways to conduct life with slavery. It does not really say slavery is good or bad. It does not say that God agreed or Disagreed with it.” Where is it that you are getting this idea of a versus thing? None of that requires that Christ be a slaver like Mohammed for my point.
“I provide to many facts and references to back up my point.”—You can provide a mountain of evidence. It does not change my point. Which is that it goes on today.
“Did I oversimplify that enough for you so you don’t have to do so much reading on what is essentially an electronic message board?”—-You could have written it anyway you like. My points still remain the same and you still have not refuted them.
Now if you wish to rehash at this point I will copy and paste my points again in response so as to avoid the wasting of time.
At any rate. Good night
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@A
Finally followed up on the biker gang thing. I skimmed the comment section looking for the keyword thugs, welfare, and jobless (or any derivative of it).
Not only was the comment section small but only thug showed up in one comment. Illegals in another.
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@Abagond: Did you see the Google maps hack that labeled the White House as the N-word House?
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@Mary
Wow.
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@sharinalr: yep
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@Mary
Was it full n-word or just n-word abbreviation?
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@sharinalr: It was the full word
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@ Linda
Btw, I left you a comment in the Alexandria thread.
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@Mary
Finally caught up on American Crime. Curious about your thoughts on the ending.
It was a happy ending for everyone, but the black dude.
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@Abagond
I know you are swamped with posts and Linda did request one prior toine, but if you find time do you mind doing a post on Asnetha Andrews.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Ferguson_Academy
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http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/03/media-blackout-of-unarmed-teen-by-police-in-his-own-home/
Please give this attention.
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^ Absolutely appalling. I’m absolutely floored that this white police officer supposedly feared for his life and yet he shot into a car fifteen times and killed that couple??? Seriously, what kind of fcukery is this?
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I think the #SayHerName movement that happened in San Francisco when women from all over the country protested topless and stood in solidarity for the women and young girls who were victims of police brutality and many lost their lives like Rekhia Boyd and the little 6 year old Ayana the youngest victim who was sleeping on her grandmother’s couch when the cops flash banged the apartment they occupied. I think the women need to be recognized as well. I remember one of Abagon posters young Adeen in the Freddie Gray thread asked the question why are the women not recognized? At the time i too wondered why the women were not recognized. I am reading Melissa Harris-Pery’s book “Sister Citizen” and this book addresses who is the black woman in America? How does she fit in the narrative of American society? Why is she not important enough to be recognized in American society? How do we as black women correct the negative stereotypes and negative perceptions that the media and society have perpetuated against us. I am not a feminist or a womanist but i understand why the #SayHerName movement took place. Nobody else was standing for the fallen black women and were the hell were the men? Black women always stand with black men when something goes down. Why can’t they be there for the black woman?
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A 137 bullets for two unarmed people for a traffic violation go figure. And as usual the judge lets the cop go free. Business as usual.
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@Kiwi: It hurts my head to try to figure out what happened this is just too frequent. I guess we will be seeing protesters and rioting in Cleveland next. SMH.
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@Kiwi
Why can’t he be stupid and a liar? He fits the bill. He went Rambo over a car backfiring.
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Abagond – I recommend that you and others have a look at this guy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDQiFfx5EfU)
If you don’t have the time to look at all, start from about 17 minutes because he briefly talks about some of the themes that have come up at different times on this blog.
Not saying that he represents or reflects all thought modes in the UK but he does give a real and honest personal interpretation
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Why cant I see the comment?
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@ Omnipresent
Your comment about the video that you made almost two hours ago is out of moderation:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread-2/#comment-284930
There is no sign at my end of a more recent comment.
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I Meant you cant see that I posted on the Open thread at the Recent comments section, why is that?
Anyway – hope you get a chance to look at it
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There’s so much negativity in the news these days, and I thought I’d share a lovely story with you guys.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/harman-singh-gets-a-big-surprise-as-he-is-thanked-for-cradling-an-injured-6yearolds-head-with-his-turban-10272841.html
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It’s interesting you say that. One of my South Asian friends said some of the hardliners of the Sikh religion were aghast by what he did and said the same thing. Personally, I took this article as a story about compassion, a man’s concern over a fellow human being, and so did my friend.
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@Mary Burrell,
That’s a good post about Black women defending ourselves against police brutality in America. #sayhername
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Wow. Hungry African boys go to French U.N. soldiers for food. And the U.N. soldiers force the to perform sex acts in order tone fed.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5dda8111b0df4bc484b86a5740c027b2/child-sex-abuse-claims-shake-un-revelations-continue
Can there be anything more sick???
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@stephaniegirl: Thanks for the response.
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@King: I have read about this as well and was disgusted those U.N. soldiers are predators this has been happening quite frequently in Africa where these beast have been molesting this African children. These beast are not being punished.
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^these African children^^
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How disgusting. Whatever happened to the UN’s Convention of the Rights of the Child? Holy cow. I’m angry! Fcuking hypocrites! Oh, those poor children.
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@leigh204: I remember reading about this last month and was disgusted. The ones who are supposed to protect them are predators they are beast.
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Condolences to Vice President Joe Biden sad for him today.
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Abagond, will you please write a post about racist themes in the Jurassic Park franchise?
In the first movie, Jeff Goldblum’s character makes a speech about how dinosaurs “lost the evolutionary game”.
This sounds similar to the way 19th-century Social Darwinists used evolutionary science to claim that black people were inferior.
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@ Mary and Leigh
All the kids wanted was some food because they were very hungry (near starving). And the French soldiers instead traded food for sex with the African children. The U.N. seemed more upset that the story was leaked then that it happened in the first place. These men have not been punished!
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I keep coming across footage from this guy – people even on social media are circulating footage of him more and more that I can see. I hope this means on some sub conscious level there are starting to be realisations in thought
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWACt-cb-SY)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtA21eiSmT8)
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@King: And those beast will not be punished don’t hold your breath
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Today June 1 1921 was the Tulsa Riots
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Does anyone have any information about the concept of sovereignty, especially comparing
– modern and prior Anglo notions
– modern and prior Native American notions
– modern and prior non-western notions
I have been challenging a friend of a friend of mine who has a Phd. in history who told me that the European domination of the North America was unstoppable.
Is there a link somewhere else on this blog?
Better yet, we could use a post on it. The very concept of whose land belongs to whom is something worthy to compare among different points of view.
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@ Jefe
I have no post on sovereignty, though it certainly deserves one as it is a huge issue, from what I understand, among Native Americans. It is one of the main differences in how Black and Native Americans view Whites and the US.
The closest stuff I have on it:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/the-three-pillars-of-american-white-supremacy/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/settler-colonialism/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/racializing-montana/
That the conquest was inevitable, blah, blah, is one of the lies they teach you at American high school, a feature of how White history is taught since it helps to get Whites morally off the hook. The bad decisions of the past are cast as the best possible outcome. It was hardly that, as Loewen points out:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/the-lies-you-were-taught-about-native-americans/
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I have referred this historian to your blog, esp. to the last link.
So if you see him popping up there, we know where he came from.
He is doing a research paper on Jefferson and he continuously referred to the Europeans who poured across the American continent as settlers (instead of, say, invaders or squatters) and the Native Americans were doomed from this unstoppable force and the relevant presidents (from Washington to Jackson) were powerless to do much about it.
I replied that putting it into those terms sounds like whitewashing history from the Anglo American point of view, as though the doom met by the Native Americans could not be helped. He got all huffy about my using the term “whitewashing” and “Anglo”, as though he took it very personally.
This is actually indirectly related to a play being performed in New York City this summer on the Trail of Tears. The woman whom I know who is affiliated with the Piscataway tribe in Maryland is the associate producer of the play and is also playing one of the roles. She is looking for a sublet for the summer, and this historian is a friend of another friend of mine who might be subletting his apartment. Since the play is about the Trail of Tears, we got into this discussion.
I replied with an email subject “Jefferson is not my hero” and it set him off.
I hope that you, or others on this blog can check out that play. I could find more details about where and when it will be performed.
Also, the woman is still looking for a sublet. (suggestions welcome)
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@Zontas,
The problem I have with the USA is not so much about the past, but the present.
OK, stolen Indian land, genocide, enslavement of Africans, Jim Crow and civil rights disenfranchisement, plus other stuff to the others (eg, Chinese and Mexican ethnic cleansing, Japanese American internment, etc.) — that all happened in the past. It happened, and we can’t change it.
But, please, why change the narrative to a purely Anglo-centric one to put the past atrocities in a good light, ie,
– it couldn’t be helped
or simply delete it from consciousness.
Why ban books teaching people their history?
This stuff is happening in the 2010s.
The evils of the 19th century is past. But the evil of the 2000s is still going on.
What I would like to see is to teach what really happened and then discuss what are we going to do about it today. What I would really like to see is a willingness on the part of ALL Americans (not just whites) to give up striving to attain whiteness. People like Jerry Hough believe the problem will go away if we all just become white Anglos, ie, that is the real meaning of becoming an American– that whole hullabaloo about ideals, principles and values is just irrelevant to him. Assimilation through amalgamation is the answer.
Admittedly, if we give up whiteness as an ideology, we have to find a replacement, a new paradigm. And that probably has not really been worked out well yet.
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@,Abagond: Black Americans have the Black National Anthem is Lift Every Voice And Sing relevant today? That would be a good post if you do Black History month. Do any other ethnicities have a national anthem. I think today ethnicities having a national anthem would be kind of weird. The White national anthem, the Asian national anthem. What do you think?
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Is the so called Negro National Anthem or Black National Anthem relevant today?
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An interesting article on Serena Williams wins and racism/sexism.
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/11/8189679/serena-williams-indian-wells-racism
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@King; Tennis to me has always been a sexist as well as a very racist sport. They have been hating the Williams sisters since they set foot on the tennis court. I remember Martina Navratilova making disparaging comments saying the Williams sisters expected special treatment because they are black. WTF and shaking my head. Also all the ugly things said about them about their bodies and the ugly racial epithets made by racist whites. But Serena is a winner when she keeps winning. They can’t stand to see a black woman be victorious.
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@ Mary
Not that we needed proof, but this gives the lie to the constantly regurgitated diatribes of the White racist. Venus and Serena are not on ‘Welfare:”
Serena Williams reported net worth = $140 million
Venus Williams reported net worth = $75 million
So here is a case of two girls who came out of Compton CA, beat the odds, used sports as a way out and up. Both became multi-millionaires, both became the most successful players that the sport has ever seen. Both started their own businesses (Became “job creators”). In other words, they have done everything exactly opposite to the racists complaints about Blacks. But what happens? Racist Whites hate them even more! Denigrate, insult, and imply that they have somehow “cheated” to get what they have (like Lance Armstrong did).
So, as we have always suspected, all of these “legitimate complaints” against Blacks are pure baloney. You could do everything the racists demand and they would STILL hate you just FOR BEING BLACK. That is what it comes down to.
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@King; Well, Yeah. Isn’t that what we say argue on these blogs day in and day out. And you got these a$$$wipes like X praetorious who doesn’t believe there is racism. You try and try to refute them and it’s impossible they believe what they want to believe. You have these racist trolls like Randy and Biff and again you try to refute what they say about black people and you can’t make them see differently, they only want to believe the negative. I totally believe in that adage about the best revenge is living well. Selena is killing it damn these racist fools.
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Well said Mary!
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An example of how Egomaniac Cops escalate to violence (even among teenagers in bathing suits at a pool party). Notice that in a mixed group of teens, the only kids he singles out were Black. He actually draws his gun. The next step here would have been the Tamir Rice scenario.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46-XTqXkzE)
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Abagond ,
I’m posting this because I”m am OUTRAGED at what I’m seeing.
This sh’t right here, is the reason why our children are being killed with no regards for their lives.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46-XTqXkzE)
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King, I see we are on the same page today 🙂
and here is the video between the 30 year old white adult woman and the black teenage girl that started the whole thing:
https://mobile.twitter.com/k1dmars/status/607031054147452928/video/1
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Oops! There you are Linda! Yes, we’re BOTH outraged!
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King & Linda; This frightens me because this could be some of my young family members i live in Texas and this is too close to home. I am looking at the way that cop his holding that young girls head down and she is face down and what if she was unable to breathe? They say the cop is on administered leave. This could be anybody young, old, middle age person of color. These cops are just out of control. Thank God those fools didn’t shoot the kids.
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A smartphone is vital tool these days.
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You are right to be concerned, Mary. Just look at the satisfaction he derives from telling a 14-year-old Black girl to get her face down in the dirt while he literally kneels on her back as she is crying. Oh, how he enjoys having his moment of ‘victory’ in which all must obey him. You kneel on a suspect who was attacking you, and who may be a threat… not some female high school freshman in her bikini, crying for someone to call her mother! How sanctimonious he in his gloating!
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Perhaps 14-year-old Black girls have been targeted by the police nationwide!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu0WqBmIOEA)
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Mary, did you see how he did the drop and roll, like he was SWAT
is this standard training in Texas? preparing for the invasion???
I don’t know what to say except, stay safe, talk to your young people, and that as black/brown people,
we have got to stay on top of the law and start getting organized to protect the lives of our children.
Someone in McKinley needs to get Sued, to start sending a message to these racist pricks that their prejudice will start hitting them in the pocket and cost them money.
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@Linda; I saw that fool doing the drop and roll so stupid. Yes, i was talking to my cousin about this yesterday how we need to talk to our younger family members and how we all need to be careful. That was some crazy mess that popped off yesterday. Mckinney is very “white” and these racially aroused cretins were doing the most, my friend said that is a private pool and if you don’t live there maybe the black kids shouldn’t have been there. I just feel like the white woman is the one who started it calling the kids names and the young woman reacted to the racist white woman that is why we as black folks need to be extra careful we don’t know when something crazy is going to happen.
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Additional clarity and background on the pool incident from an eyewitness.
Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/07/texas-pool-party_n_7530502.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
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@Linda and King
Thank you both for bring that video to my attention. It may be just me, but aside from the way he handled that teenage girl, it greatly bothered me that he was handling her that way in a bikini. His roughness could have resulted in the strings popping and her being exposed for all bystanders. Not to mention I was thinking pedophile alert.
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@Mary Burrell
I agree with you. From my understanding some had a guest pass, but for those that did not they did not need to be there. I think black parents raise their kids to be equal and the truth is we are just not. There are rules for them and rules for us. It becomes equally hard when schools and other white dominated areas try to push the bs lie that we are equal.
From many of the black youth I see they emulate their white friends without that simple realization. Sure your white friends can skateboard through the mall and when caught get taken back to their parents and scolded. AS a black youth you will likely be beaten first and/or taken back to your parents in a body bag.
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@ sharinalr
I agree that this is something that should not have happened. it’s the old problem of “party crashers’ and it’s bee around for a long time. Often calling the police is the only way to fix the problem. But I agree with you that also that there are two sets of rules.
At university, I have seen quite a few White Frat and other parties get out of hand. What do I mean? Excessive inebriation, open cocaine use, loud rock music, public nudity, vomiting, fights, public urination and defecation, sexual assault. all of those things, and when the police arrive, none of them are cursing, nobody is asked to get down on the ground. People are given numerous chances to disperse for hours. People who are sloppy drunk and high file right past the police to find their cars.
That is the problem, there are two completely different sets of rules.
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@King
I completely agree. I just hope that people seeing the two sets of rules will call for change, but my hopes are not that high.
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I change my name one last time as i thought ‘notzontas’ was too corny.
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I have a topic suggestion. “The other N word” N for Nazarene. What Arabs call Christians. Lately in Iraq the arabic alphabet symbol for “N” has been painted on houses as a death mark to levy a high tax, be shunned, forced to convert, or ultimately die. I’ve been told that in Pakistan they have drinking fountains also marked ‘Nazarene’. One girl christian girl dared to drink from an arab fountain and was stoned almost to death and currently still resides in a prison. You know there have been tons of people who scream “B.L.M.” But don’t seem to care much about brothers in faith accept for the #BringBackOurGirls folks, because they shared a very peculiar thing in common.. skin tone, melanin content, africanized genealogy and facial and hair features. For a people who have been marginalized on those very lines (colour lines) I find it rather ironic and hypocritical, that you do the same to others that share your faith.
There are people who march across the country for someone they don’t even know as long as the victim has the magic “soul content”. Many times before all the facts of the case have come out. I find that within itself to be crudely racist. There is no doubt about Christian genocide in the arab world. Especially in the case of Syria, where thousands of people that still speak Aramaic the language of Jesus, have been slaughtered, displaced, and had their rich culture decimated. I’m not saying to go to Syria , but you could march on Washington and tell the Cronies to stop funding “Moderate” rebels who are commiting this. It’s not just Isis, there are so called allies that take our weapons and use them on innocents, and in the case of isis even Henry Kissinger said we have even indirectly funded them.
Here’s another boom quote for the blm movement. Stop marching along communists. They have infiltrated your movement and it makes me want to vomit. They are clearly using you to further their own agenda, and It’s not a positive one for black people or anyone else.
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Have you guys seen this???
http://news.yahoo.com/civil-rights-activist-rachel-dolezal-pretending-to-be-black–parents-say-142027280.html?bcmt=1434128440099-9088aa41-b7ec-42fc-b1fd-43a304b7d5e6_0000ab000000000000000000000000-01c4ceb7-c4d2-4b53-bd4c-afb8b49aeb75&bcmt_s=u#
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@King
I have not seen that until now, but not really sure how to take it. On one end I applaud her for choosing to go against the grain and identify as she sees fit, but on the other hand the lying.
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@Dave
Are you planning a March for this cause? If one is organized then do you plan on marching? You want people of color to march for causes you deem appropriate, but refuses to march for their causes because “all the facts are not out” or “I don’t believe” or “that is racist to me.” It seems like people such as yourself are equally looking to use black people for your own agenda. Let me guess…your way is more right because….you’re less likely to use manipulation tactics such as quilt and cohesion even though that is about the basis of your whole comment above. I think people are starting to grow tired of such tactics regardless of who uses it. Including supposed anti-racist such as yourself.
As to America indirectly funding terrorist. ROFL. I am at shock and awe that people still believe in the indirectly funding be lie that government snitches keep passing along. They are not indirectly funding them. They are straight funding them and have been for god knows how long. American government is happily screwing the people and the people are happily naive. Fight those Muslim terrorist while patting those American terrorist on the back.
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@ King & Sharinalr:
Pics of Rachel Dolezal growing up.
She faked her own dad. Wtf?
Her real parents.
I think this woman has issues.
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Exactly my take, sharinalr.
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@sharina, I don’t have a problem with marches against police misconduct, whether it’s because of a racist cop, or just a psycho nut job cop. It just seems to me that it has become all about race, and there are many of cases where it was a white, or other, victim that doesn’t seem to get the same press or outrage from activists. I find that to be divisive and counterproductive. I don’t blame the marchers as much as I do the press. But there are some marchers that just look at the color, and others that have a nefarious objective (like some of the funded , professional activists) that could care less about black people, and still march to further said agenda, but wouldn’t march for christians because it doesn’t fit the narrative they like.
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@sharina, the whole point isn’t to say one cause is of greater importance of the other, but to say that if you are also a Christian, you should be just as appalled. Also maybe if someone like Abagond, and other independent media were to shed light on this subject, that maybe a march, a real march that isn’t funded by infiltrators could naturally occur. I know some BLM marches have occurred naturally, but some others have been funded by bad guys. That is sad to me.
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btw @sharina, you are right to say that there is direct funding of bad guys all over the world, including here. They just seem to hide it as though it was “indirect” . Because there is good guys in govt. as well that need to be fooled into thinking that they did the right thing. The problem is the scum seems to rise to the top and it is sickening.
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This woman Rachel Dolezeal obviously has some mental health issues.
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@Dave
There are equally as many if not more cases of blacks being victims that did not get media coverage either. Even in those cases, people had little or no idea about them to protest or show outrage. Blacks that do get the attention is mainly because a close family member or friends took the time to make a fuss, Those cases of white victims white rarely care to make a fuss and when fuss is made it it usually when someone black killed them.
I have read quite a few comment sections were whites will say and agree that “when we get killed by cops we just get over it.” They just don’t care, but want blacks to care about them, organize for them, and use telepathy to know when they have been victimized. They want to be the victims, but can not fathom others as such.
I am appalled Dave, but it has nothing to do with me being Christian that makes me such. Because I could always claim to be Christian and follow a satanic value system. I am curious on which set of BLM marches have been funded by bad guys? Which ones have been funded?
You have to first overthrow this government before you can really make efforts to stop or change the act of funding terrorism.
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What is so crazy to me is this deception was unnecessary she could still have been an ally to the black community as herself a white woman. I hope she gets help.
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@Sharina, you think people don’t care when family members are killed?
There have been protests. ie Kelly Thomas. They just don’t get the national attention, most are only covered on local news , and if it does make a national story it’s usually on the internet. There have been white activist who have started organizations such as “cop block” , but they aren’t just focused on white people. I’m sure there are organizations that do that. One is the clan. I’m not saying BLM is the clan , but it is divisive, and it hurts the cause. “Divided we fall”. As far as who is funding? George Soros would be the biggest donor topping 30 million. Here is the link to the Washington Post article with the proof. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all) He also bragged about funding the protests that ultimately toppled the government of Ukraine. His agenda isn’t positive.
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@Kiwi and Mary
She does have problems, but I am not really surprised. I mean how many times have you ran across a white person online pretending to be black.
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@Sharina
So yes , some have been funded, and at least jump started with funds. I think there is a bit of a herd mentality as well. It’s what’s cool right now. But if they are also involved with a network that pays you to do it, I think the protest sign may get held up a little easier as well. That’s why you see all those white communist groups at all of them, . They hate the free market so much, but they will take a check to say “death to all cops” and all kinds of other nonsense at all these protests.
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@Dave
“you think people don’t care when family members are killed?”—Unless all white people are related to each other you need to carefully read what I said. It has nothing to do with their family members and everything to do with the fact that whites don’t really care enough to protest unless the perp is black. Kelly Thomas means what to that point? In most cases of whites victims white people are not even bothered to spread the word unless it is to be used to say “see we are victims too.” In all those news articles on Kelly Thomas you could barely find comments from white commenters. You find more comments from white commenters on issues of black people in general. Bottom line is whites don’t care to protest because they don’t really care. So people like you try in a very manipulative manner to guilt black people into caring. And yes I notice it even if you don’t
“They just don’t get the national attention, most are only covered on local news , and if it does make a national story it’s usually on the internet.”—-It still does not change the fact that there are still black stories that also do not get national news. Does race play into that as well?
“There have been white activist who have started organizations such as “cop block” , but they aren’t just focused on white people. I’m sure there are organizations that do that. One is the clan. I’m not saying BLM is the clan , but it is divisive, and it hurts the cause.”—-Divisive how? Because it is not taking on the task of reminding the world that white lives matter? Obviously white lives matter a great deal because it is blacks and hispanics who are being heavily targeted not whites. We don’t need to remind people what white lives matter, but it is sad that we have to remind the world that black and hispanic lives do. Not everything has to be about and focus on white people for it to be a worthwhile cause.
AS for George Soros, that is a mixture of truth and falsehood according to snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sorosferguson.asp
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@ Dave
“So yes , some have been funded,”—And yet you have only been able to provide one. One is not some.
“I think there is a bit of a herd mentality as well.”—Yet you are advocating for heard mentality for agenda’s you see fit. That is the major problem in what you are saying. You want black people to be wise and follow your line of thinking and doing of what is right to benefit you, but they are not thinking if they follow agenda’s that benefit them. It really amazes me that you either don’t realize what you are saying or think I am dumb enough to not catch what you are saying.
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@MB,
Millions of people have switched their racial identities for one reason or another. Why do we call some rational and others a sign of mental derangement?
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@jefe: I am watching Melissa Harris -Perry this morning and this is the question they are asking on the panel.Allyson Hobbs Assistant Professor in the Department of History at Stanford University. She is the author of the book Choosen Exile. About passing for white in America. She and Harris-Perry asked the same question that you asked, why do we think something is wrong with her? This is a conundrum to be sure.
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@jefe: My question is why would a white person give up privilege to live as a marginalized person?
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@MB,
It might not make immediate sense to you, but there are probably many white people out there who for one reason or another do not feel comfortable with white identity.
For ms. Dolezar, the closest non-white identity she could latch herself to was black, as it was the only other one that she had access to.
It is not really THAT different compared to people who do not feel comfortable with their birth gender.
I don’t think that Ms. Dolezar is THAT deranged, but she made up stuff about her background in her mind to make up for missing pieces, and I think THAT is the part that is a bit dangerous. But if the NAACP is not upset with her, her husband and son are not upset with her, and her university is not upset with her, I really think she can partially redeem herself by using her position to give black women a platform to express themselves, if people would stop condemning her and let her use her unique position to create more good for them too.
You know, the thought had crossed my mind in the past about considering adopting a different ethnic identity from either of my parents’ families, as I frequently experienced rejection from both sides, but found people with unrelated ethnic backgrounds who were more open to me, sometimes even able to “pass” in front of them.
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@ Jefe:
If you don’t mind me asking, which ethnic backgrounds were more receptive to you? I understand if you don’t want to answer. I’m just curious. That’s all.
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Has anyone heard of this (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sARwDCt8cWM)
Panel of whites in Paris discussing how to reduce black population.
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