The Texas deep freeze of 2021 (since February 14th) brought the coldest temperatures in over 30 years. It covered most of the state with snow, a freak event, and knocked out power for as many as 4.5 million people, some of them for days.
The skyline of Dallas went dark. The water was no longer safe to drink for 13 million (45% of Texas) – because there was no power to treat the water. Only bottled or boiled water was safe. Most homes in Texas are not insulated, which led to to freezing temperatures even inside. Meanwhile, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who wants to be president some day, went to sunny Cancun, Mexico on holiday.
@balagonline on Twitter on February 18th:
“I don’t even have words to describe how awful things are down here in Texas. people are freezing to death in their homes and cars. no clean water or food anywhere. govt refusing to even acknowledge what’s happening. I have never experienced anything like this in my life”
Tim Boyd, the mayor of Colorado City, Texas on Facebook:
“The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING! I’m sick and tired of people looking for a damn handout!… If you are sitting at home in the cold because you have no power and are sitting there waiting for someone to come rescue you because your lazy is direct result of your raising! …. This is sadly a product of a socialist government where they feed people to believe that the FEW will work and others will become dependent for handouts…. I’ll be damned if I’m going to provide for anyone that is capable of doing it themselves!… Bottom line quit crying and looking for a handout! Get off your ass and take care of your own family!”
“Only the strong will survive and the weak will parish”
Greg Abbott, the governor:
“this shows how the Green New Deal would be a deadly deal for the United States of America.”
Tucker Carlson of Fox News:
“[Texas is] totally reliant on windmills.”
Energy sources: In 2017, ERCOT, which runs the main power grid in Texas, got its electricity from these sources:
- 39% natural gas
- 32% coal
- 17% wind
- 11% nuclear
- 1% sun
Or 18% green. The deep freeze affected them all, even nuclear.
Shortfall: Texas needed 75 GW of electricity to get through the deep freeze, but could only come up with 51 GW. The weather had knock out 43 GW. Worse still, the ERCOT power grid is cut off from the rest of the country, so it was on its own.
Deregulation: Texas politicians had cut off the power grid from the rest of the country to free it from US government regulations. That led to more competition and lower prices. Electricity is now 20% cheaper in Texas than in the rest of the US. But cutting costs meant little spare capacity. Even last summer there were brownouts, a warning sign. And power plants were not properly winterized. The other US power grids held up under the storm. Texas did not.
– Abagond, 2021.
See also:
- similar disasters caused by cutting costs or corruption:
- Katrina
- Flint water crisis
- Hurricane Maria
- Covid-19 in the US
- Tucker Carlson
- Ted Cruz
- Green New Deal
528
Wow, those politicians have hearts of stone! May they reap what they’ve sown.
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“California is now unable to perform even basic functions of civilization, like having reliable electricity…” — Ted Cruz
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Capitalism, it’s a killer.
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My reaction to the onslaught of tragedies would probably seem strangely relaxed to many people because I always saw the Earth’s reaction as inevitable. When our complex bodily systems are moved out of dynamic equilibrium we call it “getting sick”. No entity retains its predictable, usual behavior when it’s sick.
@gro jo
Unsustainable by definition.
Growth and stasis can’t be squared.
Stable capitalism implies steady instability.
An equation whose solution evades reality.
Incessant imbalance makes the planet convulse,
Seeking a new level that is never to be discovered,
As long as the bloating parasite adds to the load, as it must to achieve its impossible goal.
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Capitalism, it’s (really) a killer
Like cancer in economic form,
Like five equals zero were the norm,
Such rules that breed no sane result,
In capitalism they’d exult,
For joy that something’s dumber.
Who’d think that they’d introduce,
A system that must reduce,
All others to each component bite,
To sate its boundless appetite,
And not put the whole planet in danger?
But this is the planet on which it relies,
From whose bosom all wealth it pries.
If it must kill that on which it subsists,
Then in its egg, its end exists.
One day this will all be over.
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Origin, a/k/a Dr. Gloom and Doom has got it exactly wrong. Poetical but WRONG. It is the destiny of humanity to harness planetary, solar, even galactic energy if the current situation doesn’t destroy it. Geothermal energy, Nuclear energy (fission and fusion), Dyson spheres, space elevators and other man made inventions point the way to the future. The Earth doesn’t give a damn about humans so it isn’t trying to kill us anymore than it is interested in our survival.
Your gloom is understandable given that you live in a nation where the people in charge don’t give a damn about providing the basics for survival. 500,000 dead from Covid-19, breakdown of power grid in Texas, toxic water in Detroit, etc. That’s not the Earth reacting against humanity, it’s just U.S. capitalism falling apart as a social system. Your problem is that you can’t imagine living under a different social system.
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I survived the Texas deep freeze. Ted Cruz went to Cancun, while his constituents froze to death, went without water and food shelves in grocery stores were bare. Beto O’Rourke is the man Texans need. I personally think AOC did a good thing coming to help Texans in crisis. Many on Twitter criticized her, saying she only did this because she’s an attention hog, and doesn’t serve her constituents. I personally think these are unfair criticisms. Our state is suffering because of corrupt, greedy, and incompetent leadership.
Texas is a Republican led red state. Because of gerrymandering and voter suppression many Texan are suffering, and low voter turnout to defeat Republicans. Learned a whole lot about infrastructure and the state not being hooked up to the power grid. I am fortunate to not have suffered power outages or not having water. I am thankful to not have an outrageous electric bill.
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I love animals, it infuriated me Ted Cruz left his little dog Snowflake in a cold house. This is animal cruelty.
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@ Mary
Even if it was a cheap publicity stunt, it was still way more than Cruz did – and it is not even her state!
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LOL,
That (parenthetical)
is doing a lot of work in your argument…
This planet has thoroughly winnowed its life forms multiple times…
I’ll agree that capitalism fails on multiple fronts. It’s rapacious exploitation of the natural environment makes natural disasters more likely and its profit motive leads to neglect of public services such as infrastructure maintenance thus exacerbating the human impact of such disasters. However, you don’t have to be nominally capitalist to feel the effects, as the endless floods in China in the midst of 2020’s coronavirus plague demonstrate. Furthermore, the need to compete with capitalist “productivity” leads to extreme environmental degradation in countries that are not nominally capitalist as well.
In the final analysis, our biological bodies require that which all creatures require: a habitat. All our artificial enclaves require support from hinterlands to provide our basic needs. We also rely on organisms which are less resilient to change than we are for food and other services. We need to be connected to our fishbowl via pipes, ships, trucks, or a spacesuit. (And indeed, one of the issues in Texas was the severing of those links due to a natural disaster and poor preparation.) It’s not hard to predict the consequences of destroying the fishbowl, is it?
So I prefer to go by “Dr Action & Reaction”.
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@Mary
Glad to hear you got through alright.
I’ve been through a blizzard that caused us to lose power for days and it wasn’t pleasant, especially because we lost heat too.
Ted Cruz is an embarrassment.
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@ Origin
Interesting how this always gets reduced to China versus the USA, isn’t it? I for one certainly can imagine living in a different social system, and I would prefer it to be more like Norway.
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@Solitaire
I wasn’t so much contrasting China’s system as I was trying to show that capitalism’s impact is broad. I wonder how socialism would work if it didn’t have to trade with or compete geopolitically with capitalist systems?
But I agree that the possibilities are not necessarily binary.
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@Solitaire
Oops, I kind of whooshed the full meaning of your post at first because I had forgotten about gro jo’s final sentence. I get the essence of your response now.
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@ Origin
“I wasn’t so much contrasting China’s system…”
I wasn’t saying that you were. You aren’t the one who initially brought up either nation. I was trying to commiserate with you without being too direct, because I didn’t especially feel like being lambasted by our resident CCP booster today. Ah, well.
Yes, there are multiple nations driving global climate change, the drastic reduction of biodiversity, etc. — and as you point out, they are not all capitalist.
I personally don’t have a problem with the concept of Gaia as you expressed it. But taking a more scientific approach, perhaps we could instead phrase it along these lines: Humanity is currently involved in environmentally hazardous activities that benefit our short-term survival but ultimately work against our chances of retaining in the long term our position as the dominant species on the planet, and even increase the likelihood of our extinction. If the current situation does destroy us, we are the ones who created that situation, and therefore we will have destroyed ourselves.
Whether the Earth gives a sigh of relief at our passing or not, it doesn’t change the fact that our elimination would greatly improve the survival chances for almost every other species on this planet, as the situation currently stands.
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@ Origin
And I posted before seeing your second reply!
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@ Origin
“I wasn’t so much contrasting China’s system as I was trying to show that capitalism’s impact is broad. I wonder how socialism would work if it didn’t have to trade with or compete geopolitically with capitalist systems?”
Good point, especially in a world where capitalist nations have actively tried to destroy socialist and communist nations through war, proxy war, and assassination.
Although I have trouble seeing how China can be considered anything but nominally communist anymore.
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@Solitaire
Yeah, I had a “duh” moment, lol.
Then it occurred to me afterwards that I hadn’t quite “gotten it” but the blog delayed adding my other post.
Anyway, I’m OK with the scientific phrasing as Gaia need not be taken literally. Even if my understanding is scientific, I often tend towards personal phrasing for the impact.
But I also like thought experiments and, certainly, the onion-like organization of biological structures hints at the possibility that “life”, in some sense, extends beyond our stage of perception. Organelles -> cells -> organs -> organism -> ?
Interestingly, the universe seems to have rules resulting in structural forms that demonstrate self-similarity even at vastly different scales. I saw this study, a while ago, that analyzed the human brain and the cosmic web and found structural similarities.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphy.2020.525731/full
But as far as the Earth is concerned, it’s a system that would be extremely difficult for any of us to individually affect in a significant way. Fortunately, we came up with systems almost tailor-made to maximize our collective impact (sarc).
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@ Origin
“certainly, the onion-like organization of biological structures hints at the possibility that “life”, in some sense, extends beyond our stage of perception. Organelles -> cells -> organs -> organism -> ?”
Yep. It wasn’t all that long ago that we were unable to perceive cells or organelles — or subatomic particles. It stands to reason that there’s still more out there we haven’t yet discovered.
As far as the Gaia hypothesis is concerned, it doesn’t necessarily imply sentience. The planet doesn’t have to be angry at us to try to get rid of us, anymore than our immune system requires anger to try to eradicate a virus or a parasite.
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@Solitaire
Ah, an emotional reaction didn’t occur to me with the initial analogy either. I was thinking more in terms of an immune reaction as well.
Anyway, my browser just crashed and I lost a post. I’ll post a curtailed version…
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/20/world/venus-habitability-scn/index.html
Today, Venus surface is hotter than Mercury despite being farther from the Sun.
Your reflection on the fact that other creatures could benefit from our absence made me think of this. Some wonder if humans could turn Earth into an uninhabitable hothouse. I tend not to go that far myself, imagining that our systems would become unsustainable before we could push things to that level.
Venus’ fate is a bit of a shame though. It would have been cool to have an Earth analogue in our cosmic backyard. It has 90% of Earth’s gravity but weirdly rotates the “wrong way” and has a day longer than its 225 earth-day year. However, one wonders whether the rotational weirdness could have been caused by whatever triggered a “near-global resurfacing event”.
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@ Origin
Interesting article about Venus. I didn’t know about that. Thanks!
It is in fact one of my greatest fears that humans are going to harm the ecosystem to the extent of rendering the planet uninhabitable. I hope we either stop this environmental destruction or are stopped by it before we take the rest of the planet’s lifeforms into extinction with us.
“Ah, an emotional reaction didn’t occur to me with the initial analogy either. I was thinking more in terms of an immune reaction as well.”
I thought you were. But you got this response from Gro Jo:
“The Earth doesn’t give a damn about humans so it isn’t trying to kill us anymore than it is interested in our survival.”
Which may not necessarily imply anger or other emotions, but does bring up the idea of sentience.
However, I don’t believe the Earth needs to be aware of us or give a damn about us in order to try to kill us. If the ecosystem does in fact have a system analogous to the immune system — and of course that’s open to debate — the Earth could surely kill us blindly while trying to restore itself to balance.
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Precisely.
The Earth doesn’t have to have an emotional desire to to kill you to, in fact, kill you if you stupidly jump from a great height and go “splat!” on its surface.
People are doing things on the Earth that will have negative consequences given the prevailing natural rules.
Simple.
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“However, you don’t have to be nominally capitalist to feel the effects, as the endless floods in China in the midst of 2020’s coronavirus plague demonstrate.”
Natural disasters are as natural as motherhood. As Venus shows, natural systems can make jumps to different states. I can’t stand treehuggers who babble endlessly about ‘sustainability’ because they don’t know what they are talking about. The earth can unleash its destructive powers and obliterate life as it has done before and will do again and again. What’s sustainable is what’s good for the human race. The only way that’s determined is by acquiring knowledge from nature and using it wisely. It doesn’t guarantee survival, it makes it likelier. ” The universe is a deadly place…it is trying to kill us…” Neil DeGrasse Tyson. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw62e4SDHHo&feature=emb_logo)
“I wasn’t saying that you were. You aren’t the one who initially brought up either nation. I was trying to commiserate with you without being too direct, because I didn’t especially feel like being lambasted by our resident CCP booster today. Ah, well.”
If you didn’t want to be ‘lambasted’ you would have avoided gratuitously insulting me with your nonsense. I don’t uphold the CPC as a paragon of socialism and I refuse to malign it. I’ve only stated the truth about the work they’ve done in China. I made my case sometime ago. I’m still waiting for any of you to debunk it.
Origin points to the ‘endless floods’ and the coronavirus to point to the facts that noncapitalist formations aren’t immune to the destructive power of nature. I agree. There’s a huge difference between 500,000 dead and 4,842. let’s say that number is too low as some China bashers imply, if you increase it tenfold it’s still impressive. As for the floods, Wikipedia reports the following: “2020 China floodsFlooded Datong Town, Tongling (2020).jpg
Flooded Datong Ancient Town in Tongling, July 2020
Date early June[1][2] – September 2020
Location Hunan, Jiangxi, Guangxi, Guizhou, Sichuan, Hubei, Chongqing, Anhui, Zhejiang, Fujian, and Yunnan [3][4][5][2]
Deaths 219 dead or missing (as of 13 August 2020)[6][4]
Property damage US$32 billion (as of 12 October 2020)[7][6][8][9][10]…As of 13 August, the floods have affected 63.46 million people and caused a direct economic loss of 178.96 billion CNY, which are 12.7% and 15.5% higher than the 2015-2019 average, respectively. 219 people were found dead or are missing, and 54,000 houses collapsed, which is 54.8% and 65.3% lower than the 2015-2019 average, respectively.[” 219 out of 63.46 million (3.45 ten thousandth of a percent) ain’t bad.
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@ Gro Jo
“If you didn’t want to be ‘lambasted’ you would have avoided gratuitously insulting me with your nonsense.”
How is it nonsense to point out that (a) there was no reason for you to bring China into this thread and (b) China is not the only alternative to the current U.S. social system? Funny you would consider those rather mild observations to be gratuitous insults.
The problem, my dear sir, is that I’ve realized I have all too often this last year found myself censoring my comments to other people because I don’t want to deal with your annoying interruptions, repetitive arguments, and overly aggressive bombast. There were a number of conversations I wanted to have with other people where I chose instead to remain silent, solely because I could predict your over-the-top reaction as you came rushing to the defense of the CCP.
I realize I don’t have to engage with you — I’ve had you on mute before, fairly successfully. Perhaps it’s time to return to that strategy. It would be a shame, because some of the discussions we’ve had on other topics have been interesting and worthwhile. But not enough so to warrant the tiptoeing I’ve been doing.
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“How is it nonsense to point out that (a) there was no reason for you to bring China into this thread…”
Are you recovering from covid-19, I ask because you are writing nonsense? I dare you to show where I brought China into this thread until you and Origin did. My comment was that capitalism is deadly, Origin’s muse inspired him to get poetical, being the non-artistic type, I pointed out that his doom and gloom had more to do with US capitalism’s failings than some existential threat by Gaia. After you insulted me I straightened you out by defying you to debunk anything I’ve written, unable to take up the challenge, you start with your nonsense about how your feelings are hurt and how you’ve censored yourself because of me! I’m perfectly ok ignoring you, that won’t stop me from commenting on any nonsense you write. Since I’ve grown fond of you I don’t want to go back to our former pact, but I’m perfectly able to do so. Let’s get one thing straight, you didn’t have me on mute, I chose to respect your wish not to engage me.
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@ Gro Jo
“I dare you to show where I brought China into this thread until you and Origin did.”
I went back and looked, and you’re right. I stand corrected. But really, was Origin wrong to assume that the different social system you referred to would inevitably be China, based on your posting history?
And was it fair of you to tell Origin: “Your problem is that you can’t imagine living under a different social system” when his own posting history proves that to be untrue?
“I pointed out that his doom and gloom had more to do with US capitalism’s failings than some existential threat by Gaia.”
What about the part where you — the avowed atheist — blathered nonsense about humanity’s destiny, which requires at the very least a belief in predetermination, and therefore in a unscientific force such as Fate which does the aforesaid predetermining and sets the aforesaid destiny?
“After you insulted me I straightened you out by defying you to debunk anything I’ve written, unable to take up the challenge…”
Unwilling is not unable. Things you’ve written have been debunked before, by myself and others; you just refuse to admit it.
And I still fail to see where I insulted you in my initial comments. Where was the insult? What offended you?
“you start with your nonsense about how your feelings are hurt”
Please quote me exactly what I said that indicated my feelings are hurt. What I’m expressing is exasperation. I suppose exasperation can be categorized as an emotion, but not as hurt feelings. You on the other hand keep ranting about my having insulted you; sounds like you’re the one whose tender sensibilities have been bruised.
“and how you’ve censored yourself because of me!”
Don’t get it into your head that you’re something special. I delete way more comments than I ever post, and I compose a bunch more in my head that never even make it to draft form. Not just here, but every internet forum I participate on, regardless of topic or focus.
However, I’ve determined that recently I’ve been tiptoeing around you — out of exasperation — too much. It’s going to stop, and that doesn’t mean I’m going to take up every gauntlet you fling at me, but rather have the conversations I want to have with other people regardless of how much you try to interrupt and derail.
“I’m perfectly ok ignoring you, that won’t stop me from commenting on any nonsense you write.”
Those two halves of your sentence are contradictory. Commenting on what I write means you’re not ignoring me.
“Since I’ve grown fond of you I don’t want to go back to our former pact, but I’m perfectly able to do so.”
But are you perfectly able to have respectful disagreements about China? Without calling people liars for expressing their opinions? Thus far the answer is demonstratively No.
“Let’s get one thing straight, you didn’t have me on mute, I chose to respect your wish not to engage me.”
ROTFLMAO.
I’ll give you this much: you did a better job of it than some. But you only respected my wish part of the time. Like you said above, you continued to comment on some of my posts, whereas initially I was ignoring your posts across the board, even the ones I really wanted to comment on. And you weren’t just responding to my posts but asking me questions. Eventually I decided to answer some on occasion. And eventually you and I worked our way into a mutual understanding where we could discuss things reasonably without always going for the jugular. But during the so-called pact you never fully respected my wish not to engage and never left me alone entirely. In fact, we’ve had this discussion before, and I pulled links to examples where you purposely engaged me, contrary to our so-called pact. So yes, let’s get one thing straight: you never fully honored that mutual silence pact.
Let’s get another thing straight: my feelings are not hurt. I’m just not going to engage in noncordial counterproductive free-for-alls with you, especially about your favorite hobby horse.
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“I went back and looked, and you’re right. I stand corrected. But really, was Origin wrong to assume that the different social system you referred to would inevitably be China, based on your posting history?”
I’ve respected your honesty before, now you’re being dishonest. I was having a fairly cordial discussion with Origin about capitalism vs the earth reacting to human activities, when you stuck your nose in to unburden yourself of your feeling of hostility toward me.
You decided you knew better what I was thinking than I did! Typical “Karen” like arrogance, if you ask me. Despite the fact that I told you China isn’t my idea of socialism, you persist with your mind reading nonsense. I’ve never claimed China to be socialist, I’d be forever grateful if you’d point out where I made that gaffe. You and a number of people on this blog decide to make sh_t up and ascribe your absurdities to me.
It wasn’t Origin who assumed that I was referring to China, it was you.
“What about the part where you — the avowed atheist — blathered nonsense about humanity’s destiny, which requires at the very least a belief in predetermination, and therefore in a unscientific force such as Fate which does the aforesaid predetermining and sets the aforesaid destiny?”
A shocking display of stupidity on your part. Humanity has a destiny based on its history. We started out as mere animals running around naked, with loyalties only to immediate kin, to a world civilization posing a threat to the entire globe unless we can get past our narrow visions of races, tribes and nations. As an avowed atheist, I believe we can because the alternative is death.
“You on the other hand keep ranting about my having insulted you; sounds like you’re the one whose tender sensibilities have been bruised.” More “Karen” bs. You insulted me by putting your words in my mouth, so to speak.
“Unwilling is not unable. Things you’ve written have been debunked before, by myself and others; you just refuse to admit it.”
Unlike you, I’m not perfect, when someone shows me I’m wrong, I thank them. Here’s an example: ““Malik Ambar – Ethiopian who ruled in India” This topic should be treated in the context of military slavery as opposed to chattel slavery. He wasn’t the only African to hold such high position, a class of them existed. According to a book I recently read, he was Oromo not Ethiopian, not sure what the difference is but given your penchant for such things you’ll elucidate.” Abagond replied: ” on Tue May 2nd 2017 at 02:03:48
abagond
@ gro jo
Ethiopia is an empire. The Oromos are one of its subject peoples, victims of repeated genocide.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/oromia/”
I had zero problem with Abagond’s comment, I even asked him to elucidate. I’d gladly accept proof that you aren’t writing nonsense.
“But are you perfectly able to have respectful disagreements about China? Without calling people liars for expressing their opinions? Thus far the answer is demonstratively No.”
Correct, I’ll continue to call out liars. your refusal to do the same when you demonstrate that they are lying is your business. Case in point, jefe’s lie about how it was a “CCP” plot to call covid-19 by that name instead of the Wuhan virus or some such nonsense. I praised you for this display of honesty.
Enough said.
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@ Gro Jo
“when you stuck your nose in to unburden yourself of your feeling of hostility toward me.”
Sounds like …. what did you call it? Mind reading nonsense, I believe? I don’t have feelings of hostility towards you. Yes, I admitted to exasperation; that does not equate to hostility. One can in fact be exasperated with those who are nearest and dearest. Again, it certainly sounds like you got your feelings hurt everywhereif you’re imagining hostility on my part. But perhaps I’m mistaken and you’re just strategically throwing mud on the wall to see what sticks.
“You decided you knew better what I was thinking than I did!”
Or you decided that’s what I did? You’ve already been telling me what I’m supposedly feeling, so….
“Despite the fact that I told you China isn’t my idea of socialism, you persist with your mind reading nonsense. I’ve never claimed China to be socialist”
You’re going to have to refresh my memory and quote where I said you claimed that. I believe you do claim China is communist, though?
And while we’re on the topic, what is your idea of socialism?
“It wasn’t Origin who assumed that I was referring to China, it was you.”
Origin said the following to you before I ever got involved:
“However, you don’t have to be nominally capitalist to feel the effects, as the endless floods in China in the midst of 2020’s coronavirus plague demonstrate.”
He already knew where you were headed with this.
“A shocking display of stupidity on your part. Humanity has a destiny based on its history.”
Ahem. You wrote: “It is the destiny of humanity to harness planetary, solar, even galactic energy”
Really? I don’t think there’s any destiny that guarantees the harnessing of galactic energy. It may happen, it may not. It may simply not be possible, no matter how advanced human science becomes.
Destiny is not a concept based on one’s history but on one’s fate. It’s antithetical to free will.
“You insulted me by putting your words in my mouth, so to speak.”
That’s a reach.
“Unlike you, I’m not perfect”
I have never claimed to be perfect.
“Case in point, jefe’s lie about how it was a ‘CCP’ plot to call covid-19 by that name instead of the Wuhan virus or some such nonsense. I praised you for this display of honesty.”
Jefe wasn’t lying; he was expressing an opinion, one which you have misrepresented in your inaccurate paraphrase above. You only “praised” me for “honesty” as a way of getting in your digs at Jefe. I tried to ignore you but finally had to respond and clarify that I didn’t agree with you and I didn’t want your praise, much less your mischaracterization of the points I was trying to make.
That’s actually a good example of what I’m talking about. If I remember correctly, it was Munubantu who first said something to Jefe about his use of “Wuhan virus” being potentially offensive to Asians. Jefe took offense at that himself; I don’t know if Munubantu forgot Jefe is hapa Chinese, but it’s possible. That was when I stepped in to try to explain what was happening outside of Asia, about the bigoted rhetoric and hate crimes against people of Asian descent who were being blamed for the virus.
It was not an easy conversation to have, and I really can’t blame Jefe for being bristly about the idea that he could be bigoted towards himself, even though that wasn’t what anyone was actually trying to say. The whole discussion got off on the wrong foot, and then as I was trying to correct course, you came along not just praising me for my honesty but gloating that “the iconoclast” Jefe had fallen from his pedestal and that one of his “acolytes” was finally seeing through him and exposing his “lies” — all of which was NOT what I was doing, thinking, or feeling. And all of which was completely counterproductive to the conversation I was trying to have with Jefe, and came very close to derailing it. So yeah, accuse me again of putting words in your mouth or of deciding I know what you’re thinking, like you don’t habitually do that to others yourself. 😄😂
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Re this from above:
“Again, it certainly sounds like you got your feelings hurt everywhereif”
Not sure how that doozy of a typo happened, but “everywhere” should have been a comma:
“Again, it certainly sounds like you got your feelings hurt, if”
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I copied the conversation on “Wuhan” virus, it shows what jefe was up to and how you unmasked him as a liar. I don’t know if Abagond will let it post. You can find it here. (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/03/10/the-coronavirus/#comments)
Back then, you had integrity.
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@ gro jo
I deleted your 2,944-word cut-and-paste job. I do not have any hard-and-fast limit, but that is way too long for unoriginal content. If it were from another website it would not even count as fair use.
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@ Gro Jo
Thank you for identifying and linking to the thread where that discussion took place. It happened very early in the thread, so it will be easy to find even though the thread itself has gotten really long. I’m more than happy for anyone who’s interested to go to that thread, read the comments for themselves, and draw their own conclusions.
As far as my integrity is concerned, I told you then that I could disagree wth Jefe without considering him a liar. My stance on that matter remains exactly the same as it was then, almost a year ago.
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“What changed? Because the WHO was under some very heavy-handed and intense pressure by the CCP to invent and promote a term that did not point back to China in some way. In other words, it was a tool of propaganda.” Said jefe. ”
gro jo opined: “I was wondering when jefe would turn this into a diatribe against the CCP. Wonder no more, he’s back. Welcome back jefe.
What’s with the “glass heart” reference, are you saying you’re an iconoclast?
How about a kind word for the professionalism of the CCP in handling this crisis compared with Bozo the clown Trump? Nah, go back to breaking those “glass hearts”.”
‘honest’ Solitaire respectfully takes issue with jefe’s claims: “I suspect if you were not currently in a majority-Chinese nation, your outlook would be different.
“First of all, I have been to Wuhan on a pleasure trip. I have friends from Wuhan; in fact, just two weeks ago I went on an outing with a friend who is a Wuhan native”
With all due respect, this sounds like the “some of my best friends” argument. You know perfectly well that someone can be friends with or even married to an individual of a certain group and still harbor unconscious prejudices. I’m not saying that you do have any bias regarding people from Wuhan; I don’t have enough data to assess that. But this argument is unworthy of you. You know its flaws and have called other people on the carpet for using it.
“As Lemmy advised you, it is normal and common practice for people all over the world throughout history to attach geographical labels to diseases that refer to either where they originated or to a region where they later became widespread.”
Let me remind both you and Lemmy that just because something has historical precedent, just because it is common practice and has been normalized, that doesn’t make it right.
“Yet this time we are being pushed to avoid using those colloquial terms, and instead use the term Covid-19…. What changed? Because the WHO was under some very heavy-handed and intense pressure by the CCP to invent and promote a term that did not point back to China in some way. In other words, it was a tool of propaganda.”
There’s a problem with your statement — WHO announced the change in naming policy back in 2015:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2015/naming-new-diseases/en/
“In Hong Kong, …. [t]hey will stop using the term Wuhan Pneumonia if and only if Mainland Chinese will stop using the term “Hong Kong Foot”. Hong Kong Foot is the most common colloquial term across Asia to refer to athlete’s foot.”
I can definitely see why people in Hong Kong are offended by this term and want its use to stop. I don’t know that a tit-for-tat response is at all productive. Generally it has the opposite result..@ Jefe
I will say again, WHO was following the guidelines for nomenclature that they themselves established five years ago. That is the main reason.
“What it does do, is distance the virus from the regime that made the very decisions to allow it to spread in the first place.”
How would calling it the Wuhan pneumonia reflect on the other regimes (like Trump’s) who are also making decisions allowing the illness to spread?
Should AIDS be called Reagan’s Disease? Or the USA Syndrome?
Do you really think if Wuhan is not in the name, the experts who study epidemiology are going to forget where it started and why it spread?
I can only guess you want Wuhan in the name to cement the connection among the general public. What earthly good will having Wuhan in the name do 50 years from now?
“So, how does coining the term “Covid-19” reduce this kind of reverse discrimination?”
It wouldn’t, and I never said it would. But that doesn’t mean WHO should continue to follow old naming practices that they know have created problems in the past, including problems that interfered with treatment and containment efforts.
“He makes an argument why it is better for the world and for the history and study of the disease why it is better to retain a geographical label to the virus.”
The medical professionals who specialize in global epidemics disagree with him. Yes, his wife is a doctor — so what? She hasn’t made this particular field of medicine or the study of the history of epidemiology her life’s work.
“Later in the video, he also mentioned about how the PRC Ministry of Foreign Affairs has actively promoted a conspiracy theory that the US brought the virus to China and they are the ones to blame for virus. That propaganda has taken off in the Mainland”
Yes, I already know about that. It does not sway my opinion. Including “Wuhan” in the official name isn’t going to stop that type of conspiracy theory.
“Do people in the USA really believe that the pressure that the CCP placed on the WHO in the renaming of the colloquial terminology for the current novel coronavirus has anything whatsoever to do with their concern that they have about Asian-Americans or Asians elsewhere?”
I don’t think the CCP cares and I never said the CCP did. I said WHO cares about that. So does the CDC, for that matter.
Once again, WHO is following the practices they established in 2015. There is no reason to think they would have used Wuhan in the official name had there been no pressure from the CCP because it still would have violated their own rules to do so.
This is a coincidence, not cause-and-effect. WHO was never going to include a geographical reference in the name regardless of where it originated.”
My, how severe and austere you were then, none of that flabby nonsense about how jefe was just ‘expressing’ an opinion. I picked up on this trend and complimented you on your Nurse Diesel (Cloris Leachman) imitation. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DosXB5TWfHc) I confess I got a little carried away when I penned the following: “Oh no, people on this blog are finally waking up to jefe’s bullshit? Say it ain’t so. Is this jefe’s fool me once fool me twice… moment? how will our hero iconoclast recover? Stay tuned, where’s my popcorn, I’m enjoying this…Solitaire, I hope you won’t take this personally, I love you!
You have utterly destroyed JEFE THE RECKLESS LIAR with your adherence to the facts. Please keep it up.”
“Thank you for identifying and linking to the thread where that discussion took place.” I don’t have anything to hide.
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@ gro jo
Comment deleted. Why are you spamming this thread with long, mishmashy coronavirus stuff from a year ago?
If you have a point to make, please let us know what it is. If you want to provide supporting documentation, please provide LINKS or SHORT, SELECT, clearly identified quotes so what we know who said what.
In your last comment it is hard to tell who is saying what. And why it even matters on a thread about the Texas deep freeze.
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Abagond, you’re full of sh_t. Your girl Solitaire is lying and pretending not to recall what she wrote, I provided the exact words and who said what so your claim that it’s ‘unclear’ who said what is nonsense. If you don’t want me to reply just say so and drop the act.
” And why it even matters on a thread about the Texas deep freeze.”
What a hypocrite. Maybe you should have asked her what China had to do with this thread and why she felt she had the right to tar me with the brush of being some kind of CPC mouthpiece? What am I saying? You’re the guy who claimed, without proof, that the Uighurs are being exterminated, so lying is baked into the DNA of your blog.
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@ gro jo
I undeleted your comment. But please wrap this up. It is way off topic.
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Good man. Any further comments will take place on Open Thread.
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Anyone that could have gotten out… would have… Get off of Ted Cruz… man up and stop with the whine and blame game. In reference to an earlier comment…beto should be run out of Texas… more suited for calihomelessfornicationia
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Some would say this is the fall of the lone star. Temperatures certainly have fallen a great deal.
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