Ahmaud “Maud” Arbery (1994-2020) was an unarmed Black American jogger gunned down by two White men, Gregory McMichael and his son Travis, on February 23rd 2020 in Satilla Shores, Georgia. They were not arrested till May 7th, over two months later, two days after a video of the shooting went viral on the Internet.
Arbery was a high school football star. At 25 he still ran regularly to keep in shape. His father says he often jogged through Satilla Shores, a White suburb of Brunswick, Georgia, on the coast between Savannah and Jacksonville.
Calls to the police: On February 23rd at least two people reported Arbery to the police. One said, “There’s a black male running down the street”. Another said he was examining a house that was under construction. Neither said how he was life-threatening or breaking the law.
What the McMichaels say: Arbery “fit the description” of a burglar they had seen (police say there were no burglaries recently reported in that neighbourhood). They got in their pickup truck and “Roddy” got in his car to go after him. They said, “Stop, stop, we want to talk to you”. He fought them and they killed him in self-defence.
The video shows Arbery jogging through a neighbourhood. A man is standing in the flatbed of a pickup truck with a gun, another is standing near the truck with a shotgun. There is shouting. Arbery jogs around the truck. Then there is a gunshot. Arbery tries to take the shotgun. There are two more gunshots. Arbery falls.
Police arrived. Arbery died shortly after.
Then, as county commissioner Allen Booker tells it:
“The police at the scene went to her [District Attorney Jackie Johnson], saying they were ready to arrest both of them [but she] shut them down to protect her friend McMichael.”
Gregory McMichael is a retired policeman and detective. Johnson later recused herself from the case because she used to be his employer. The case then went to:
George Barnhill, district attorney of Waycross, Georgia, two counties to the west. He saw no reason to arrest them either. They were merely making a citizen’s arrest and, feeling threatened by Arbery, they had the right to kill him in self-defence under Georgia’s stand-your-ground law. But then Arbery’s mother noticed that Barnhill was the employer of – Travis McMichael, the son! The case then went to:
Tom Durden, district attorney of Hinesville, Georgia, two counties to the north. But little was done till the video went viral. That was when:
The Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) stepped in. It took them 36 hours to find enough “probable cause” to arrest the McMichaels.
The Southern Poverty Law Center wants the FBI to step in. A week before the video went viral they said:
“Any system that stands by as an unarmed man is gunned down in the street without any obvious justifiable reason, is also filled with bias and hate.”
Arbery’s father calls it a lynching.
– Abagond, 2020.
See also:
- lynching
- slave patrols
- The police
- stand-your-ground law:
- Savannah, Georgia:
- copspeak
521
Abagond 
Rinse, wash, repeat.
You would think that racist white people would find their humanity in time of crisis within a pandemic but this proves that no matter what’s going on in America, black people are the number one threat, not a deadly virus.
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Nice, you DID completely overlook/omit the details in the link I gave you. No mention of the fact that this guy had been busted trying to walk into a high school basketball game with a gun earlier and that the older man (former cop) likely knew him from that. No reference to the videotape clearly showing him going into someone else’s house (under construction) that day and scoping it out and bolting after people saw him and called the cops on him.. no, just a nice boy going for a jog many miles from his home. Yes, the official statistics show that black on white crime happens at least 9 times as much as white on black crime, but let’s concentrate on this case. clearly just some kkk dudes doing an execution! when the jury let’s them off, riot and burn down stuff and complain about white pepo! if thousands more mostly blacks die, like happened after ferguson, it’s because black lives truly matter to you guys.
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and here’s the link again, in the unlikely event that anyone here actually cares to see a different view point than the one parroted by the MSM:
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=61435
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Ahmaud_Arbery
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“going into someone else’s house (under construction) that day and scoping it out”
I’ve done that many times. Never has anyone chased me down in their vehicles while brandishing weapons. I wonder why.
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I don’t agree with taking justice into your own hands in a situation like that, even if you are an ex-cop and even if a citizen’s arrest may be permitted under local law there. However, what clearly happened is these men had very reasonable grounds to believe Ahmaud was breaking into property with intent to steal (especially if they knew this guy from him bringing a gun to a high school game) and they tried to stop him and get him to wait for the cops. Knowing what he had done, Ahmaud rushed at an armed man instead of waiting for the cops, stupidly tried to grab the barrel of the gun and got shot. It’s a tragedy, but not a murder by any reasonable definition.
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“However, what clearly happened is these men had very reasonable grounds to believe Ahmaud was breaking into property with intent to steal”
What are the very reasonable grounds?
Where are the surveillance tapes taken on previous days that they claim they recognized him from?
On the 911 call, the caller says, “And he’s been caught on camera a bunch at night.” How sure could they be that he was the same person? Where is the footage so we can all see how identifiable the individual is?
If they had reasonable grounds, why did the 911 dispatcher say, “I just need to know what he was doing wrong.” Why couldn’t the caller give a clear and obvious reason?
Why didn’t they wait for the cops instead of chasing him down with their vehicles, trying to block his path, and threatening him with firearms?
Did Arbery have a constitutional right to due process?
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Disregarded fact: A handgun had been stolen from Gregory McMichael’s pickup truck several months earlier. Upon hearing some vague information about a burglary in the neighborhood, he apparently fixated on the idea that Arbery was a suspect in this months-old crime and concluded that Arbery therefore might be armed and dangerous. All without any firm and overt evidence.
In actuality, anybody could have stolen the gun from McMichael’s pickup. It could have been a black criminal, true. But it could have been a white criminal too. It could have been neighborhood teenagers who later tossed the gun in the river or stuffed down a gopher hole. It could have a homeless person or someone who was mentally ill.
Then then there are additional forensic questions. Was the truck unlocked? If it was locked, did someone break a window to get in or did they use a slim jim tool or what? Did McMichael even know whether the truck was left unlocked or not?
That McMichael’s motive had to do with solving the theft of his gun calls into question the claim that he intended to effect a citizen’s arrest for a recently committed crime. Based on what he knew, what reason did he have to suspect Arbery who was running on view on a public street. Who knows, maybe Arbery was up to no good, but McMichael personally had no evidence of it and furthermore had a legally tainted motive, a hope that he could solve the months-old crime of the theft of his gun.
The end result is that the McMichaels and the third man involved created a situation which otherwise would not have existed. I have heard a lot about the idea that Arbery should not have grabbed the shotgun. But three men involved created a tactical situation in which Arbery, and indeed, they themselves, had no time to think out what to do. That’s what a tactical situation is. A real time life-and-death situation. Arbery played no part in creating that situation. He was only forced to respond to it, and he at first attempted to simply continue on before they cut off his path with the vehicle.
I’ve spent a lot of time studying forensic cases, and I’ve learned, you don’t accept claims without firm evidence. Any statement put in terms like “Why would” or “Should have” or “Only a” or “No one but” is not evidence of anything.
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“Knowing what he had done”
Which is what? No stolen goods were found on his person.
“Ahmaud rushed at an armed man instead of waiting for the cops, stupidly tried to grab the barrel of the gun and got shot.”
Because it couldn’t possibly be that he was in fear for his life.
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R.I.P.
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Many of the points raised are indeed worth investigating (and we don’t know to what extent the police previously did so, but I guess we will be finding out more information in the coming days–the prosecution gets to make their case and the defense will do the same–makes sense to see what else is turned up).
My major issue is that the media, with shockingly few exceptions, isn’t investigating details and is pretending this is an open and shut case of racist execution of a kind jogger.
The other big thing for me is if I heard there was a white dude accused of a crime who had earlier been busted trying to get a gun into a high school game, I would think that was a scummy guy. I wouldn’t have much sympathy for him, because I would believe, absent some major conversion experience, that he was likely up to no good…
You guys don’t act like that. Doesn’t matter if the person is a proven violent gang banger/drug user/thief, you will defend him if his skin color happens to match yours… that’s just disgusting.
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“The other big thing for me is if I heard there was a white dude accused of a crime who had earlier been busted trying to get a gun into a high school game, I would think that was a scummy guy. I wouldn’t have much sympathy for him, because I would believe, absent some major conversion experience, that he was likely up to no good…”
What about a guy who was arrested for assaulting a police officer and whose girlfriend filed a restraining order against him because of domestic violence?
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Biff,
Biff said:
“No mention of the fact that this guy had been busted trying to walk into a high school basketball game with a gun earlier..”
That was in 2013 when Mr. Arbery was 19 years old.
Biff said:
“and that the older man (former cop) likely knew him from that.”
Yes, Gregory McMichael was one of the investigators of that incident.. however that weakens his position for a citizen’s arrest. Why not just say to the police, I recognize Mr. Arbery from a previous arrest and feel you should question him.
Biff said:
“No reference to the videotape clearly showing him going into someone else’s house (under construction) that day and scoping it out and bolting after people saw him and called the cops on him.”
Mr. Arbery’s family stated that Ahmaud wanted to become an electrician and indicated he was interested in construction. They recognized him on the surveillance videos, however the videos also showed he did not remove anything from the site, likewise the owner of the property confirmed nothing had been removed. Arguably his repeat inspection of the property was quirky and conceivably suspicious to outside observers but not criminal (The owner of the property would have had to file trespassing charges which he never did). I have a bit of OCD and done similar things when I have been fascinated with a subject.
In regards to the McMichael’s behavior:
The McMichaels apparently tried to cut Mr. Arbery off several times, in response he turned around at least once to avoid them. Two armed men, repeatedly blocking a jogger’s path with a vehicle while brandishing a weapon, just based upon their perception of his behavior, sounds like aggravated assault.
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The father and son duo were definitely trying to stop Arbery by any means necessary. Did they have the right to make a citizen’s arrest? Question based on facts to be determined. What was the item Arbery is said to have thrown in the road? Was it a hammer? Was it just a tree branch? It would be good to know. Was Arbery wearing running shoes? Did he run all the way from his house (as would happen in the vast majority of cases with real joggers). Did he have a pattern of jogging–again as would happen with the vast majority of real joggers?
“Arguably his repeat inspection of the property was quirky and conceivably suspicious to outside observers but not criminal (The owner of the property would have had to file trespassing charges which he never did).”
Trespassing is criminal. If I walk into your home without your consent that’s trespassing. Whether a charge gets filed is another question.
Anyway, you guys get my point that this is not a slam dunk murder case. Yet, we hear nothing about whites who are killed in cold blood by blacks with little to no provocation (e.g., refused to hand over money when demanded). white on black crime is so rare that it makes the headlines every time, but almost every time the so-called “victim” is revealed not to be a completely innocent guy who got attacked for no reason…
Way more black people were killed as a result of BLM getting police to not do their jobs after Ferguson (the numbers back this up) then in every lynching in all of American history. Yet those lives don’t seem to matter to you guys.
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Too reminiscent of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. White supremacy in the time of corona virus. Rest In Paradise young brother Ahmaud Aubrey.
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RIP, cold blooded murder.
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The racial lens is powerful and distorting.
Back when I was less aware of racial issues a coworker/semi-boss made a joke that I was “casing out the place” when I went for a walk to a neighboring office’s parking lot and back during my lunch break. As I got older and understood more deeply how the racial lens works, those comments seem darker in retrospect. You can be doing totally innocent things while, unbeknownst to you, hypervigilant casual racists are watching you and imputing negative motives.
We’ve seen this result in death or injury – either directly or through the police – more times than we care to count. Often, there’s no semblance of justice until there’s public outrage and then the assaults on the victim’s character begin as a prelude to the trial in which the killers will have a very good chance of being found not guilty. It’s so tiring to distant observers that it’s impossible to imagine what victims’ families go through.
RIP.
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Powerful statement from the NAAGA:
NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION
Official Statement on the Ahmaud Arbery Murder
Once again, we are here mourning the loss of a young black man whose life was cut brutally short. The scenario is all too familiar particularly in the South. A young black man was perceived as a threat-based off of a spurious claim, chased down by three white men of which two were wielding firearms in the back of a pickup truck, and shot like a dog on the side of the road. After the shooting, the police and two district attorneys, all of whom swore an oath to uphold the law, saw no cause to apprehend these white men or investigate their actions, going so far as to justify their actions as reasonable and moral. His murderers and those who aided them, saw Ahmaud Arbery as a born criminal, 3/5s of a man, a wild beast that had to be put down. We, the National African American Gun Association, condemn this murder and the failure of the local government to properly investigate this case. We grieve for Mr. Arbery and his family. A young man is gone forever and a family is diminished. Though he lost his final battle, he did not go quietly and fought for his life the only way he could.
This murder would be all too common if one read about it in a newspaper in 1950. However, this is 70 years since that time. This goes to show how we have a long way to go as a country. Many would like us to believe that such violence and the pathology that justifies it no longer exists. We know better than to believe such an obvious lie as this murder and the murders of countless other young black men before clearly demonstrate the falsity of such a claim. In fact, while we should be justifiably outraged, we should not be surprised. It is no secret to African Americans that the country has not changed nearly as much as society would like to believe. At the end of the Civil Rights Movement in the late 1960s, laws changed but many institutions and people did not. The same white supremacists that terrorized black folks and ran the local government were not kicked out of their jobs. They were not arrested. They paid no damages to the communities they victimized. They were merely told that it was no longer polite to openly oppress and terrorize. This polite warning is exhibited in law and policy that is not enforced when it would ensure justice for black people. It is exhibited in school curriculums that talk about state’s rights as the cause of the Civil War while dismissing the very words from the secessionists who saw it as a crusade to protect white supremacy. It is exhibited in black communities that have hookworms and sewage in their yards right next to white communities that have modern plumbing infrastructure. It is exhibited by an economy that sees black wealth plummeting to zero by mid-century while at the same time white wealth climbs to record highs. It is exhibited in white politicians that see no way to pay reparations to African Americans despite this country’s history of paying reparations to oppressed groups. We see murders such as Ahmaud’s which rightfully outrage us, but we often fail to recognize the previously stated circumstances that laid the groundwork for such murders to occur and continue to occur.
The Black Tradition of Arms dictates the use of armed self-defense to address the circumstances in which the government will not protect you because of incompetence, moral cowardice, or outright malice towards African American people. Practitioners of this tradition such as Robert F. Williams and Fannie Lou Hamer effectively used it as a strategy to advance the cause of black enfranchisement and protection under the law. This strategy supported other strategies such as a voting block, boycotting, and organizing and presenting a black agenda to local government. While as individuals we can and should join this tradition to protect ourselves against immoral violence, we must take part in collective action to enact the deep structural changes that are necessary to truly change the circumstances that create and sustain the cycle of these tragedies. As a community, we must re-engage with the political process and uproot those that do not serve our best interests from their positions of power. We must collectively determine what are the laws and policies we want to see and present them to our local government. We must take back our churches and civic organizations and demand that they do the hard work of promoting a real black agenda. We must groom and support candidates from within our community to carry forth our interests. We must show up on election day to choose the policies and politicians that we want to represent us. And lastly, we must hold all of our public servants accountable for they are supposed to serve us and if they are not doing so we must use all legal measures possible to remove and replace them.
( https://naaga.co/ )
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As a person who grew up in the South, I believe that Arbery was accosted (and ultimately murdered) simply because he had the nerve to leisurely jog through an affluent, White neighborhood on a Sunday afternoon—–and any other time he chose. News reports mentioned Arbery ran through the neighborhood on a regular basis.
Arbery was not an “authorized” Black service worker in a uniform there on official business during business hours. Arbery was a Black citizen who felt he had the right to run where and when he pleased. The White residents felt differently.
The White people in power in that area felt differently, too. Arbery’s murder was considered a non-event to three local district attorneys. Not one, but three.
All they likely did was prepare a media release damning the reputation of Arbery in case the matter went public later. Arbery’s community then made enough noise to warrant media attention and the district attorneys followed their usual script: “Arbery did this when he was younger…Arbery did that years ago….”. All to cast Arbery as a hardened criminal who deserved to be shot in the street—-with no due process; no arrest, no evidence of wrongdoing, no conviction, no sentencing.
[I started to say “like a dog”, but in the USA police and average citizens have been arrested and convicted of felonies after shooting dogs, cats, donkeys and other assorted animals. However, shooting a melanin rich human being is perfectly okay in the USA.]
I agree with Arbery’s father that his son was lynched. He was lynched while doing something that White people take for granted in their own neighborhoods; jogging, looking at an unsecured construction site and bothering no one.
This case brings to mind an article I read on CNET months ago. The article “Amazon Ring alerts often tie up police with false alarms”, discussed how mostly White, affluent people install Ring smart doorbells and overwhelm local police with calls and video footage of “suspicious persons”. According to the article:
https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-ring-alerts-often-tie-up-police-with-false-alarms/
As far as some of the residents of that neighborhood were concerned, Arbery should not have been allowed on their streets without “authorization”. The McMichaels wanted to make an example of Arbery to deter future normal human behavior by Black people in their neighborhood.
The McMichaels still may get away with their crimes. That is that part that angers me most.
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To Biff,
Biff said:
“Trespassing is criminal. If I walk into your home without your consent that’s trespassing. Whether a charge gets filed is another question.”
The following is Georgia’s definition of trespassing:
https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html
Biff said:
“If I walk into your home without your consent that’s trespassing.”
This was not a home but an open building site – and as far as I can tell since it did not have “No trespassing” signs posted, nor was Ahmaud Arbery ever told to not enter the property, and there was no evidence he vandalized nor stole anything, according to Georgia law it would appear he was not guilty of criminal trespass.
He walked into the property in the afternoon when there were people about, generally not the sign of a burglar and in my mind and apparently the Georgia Bureau of Investigation – His actions did not warrant an armed pursuit from civilians. At best the McMichaels could have followed him, taken a photograph and then turned it over, along with their suspicions to the police to to sort out. On a side note, I’m flabbergasted that Travis McMichael would leave a 9mm pistol in an unlocked vehicle on a residential street on New Year’s eve. Not the sharpest tool in the shed it would seem.
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@ Biff
I’m still waiting for an answer. What about a dude who was arrested for assaulting a police officer and whose girlfriend had filed a restraining order against him because of domestic violence? Would you think that was a scummy guy? Would you not have much sympathy for him? Would you believe that he was likely up to no good?
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This maybe just a whim, but isn’t Georgia one of the most populous in terms of African American presence in all of the U S of A? Seems like there should be a strong political presence that made this man safe to be jogging in this area.
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Solitaire:
Re: assaulting a cop, that’s a negative mark no doubt, but the circumstances would be worth noting. Someone who did low level pushing of a person who turned out to be a cop while drunk and getting too out of control one night is very different from someone getting a gun and consciously taking it to a high school game to shoot or intimidate someone in my mind.
Re: domestic violence/restraining order, if it’s happened with multiple women or he put the gf in the hospital absolutely scum, but sometimes women can initiate stuff like this and then try to blame a man for his response. It happens, just like false rape allegations. Doesn’t mean it happens all or most of the time, but it does sometimes. I believe abagond’s wife was physically violent toward him, for instance. I hate to say it, but it’s a sign of a weak man usually… so, again, the situation would count there.
No one’s denying that we could have multiple people involved in this case who were scummy guys. It’s just not an open and shut, “murder in cold blood”.
Lemmy:
I guess it’s a question of fact whether Arbery was trespassing when he entered the house. I absolutely would assume I was trespassing by entering someone else’s home under construction without their permission. Usually, there are some signs when construction is taking place. I’d be surprised if it the site were completely sign free. That’s another question of fact.
Even if these guys didn’t have the right to stop him for what he had done (because they incorrectly thought he had committed felony burglary) trying to stop him doesn’t make it murder if they don’t have the intent to commit a crime.
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FrownedUpon: Very few whites with an IQ above room temperature would intentionally go to a neighborhood known for having rough blacks to have a jog. I don’t really buy that this guy was just a regular jogger who went miles from his house to this neighborhood of what he would have thought were crazy r3dn3cks/cr@ck@s just to have an innocent jog–and if he did, you’d think he would have had the presence of mind not to go into other people’s homes.
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@ Biff
“someone getting a gun and consciously taking it to a high school game to shoot or intimidate someone”
How do you know that was Arbery’s intent? There are other reasons he could have taken the gun.
“Re: assaulting a cop, that’s a negative mark no doubt, but the circumstances would be worth noting. Someone who did low level pushing of a person who turned out to be a cop while drunk and getting too out of control one night”
The individual in question assaulted an officer who was trying to arrest his friend. He was charged with felony assault on a police officer and violent resisting of arrest.
“Re: domestic violence/restraining order, if it’s happened with multiple women … absolutely scum”
On the date I’m thinking of, there was only the one prior, but in the years since three more women have reported him for domestic violence, including his then-wife.
So is he scum or not?
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https://www.wtoc.com/2020/05/11/homeowners-attorney-arbery-familys-attorney-respond-new-video/
The attorney for the owner of the construction site has come forward and issued a statement. Nothing was stolen.
All these arguments rascist are using about “theft” and “burglery” and “treaspass” don’t mean a thing if you are not the property owner.
The only person who can claim trespass is the property owner.
The only person who can claim theft is the property owner.
Only the property owner can appoint an agent to act on his behalf.
The homeowner’s attorney, J. Elizabeth Graddy:
“Mr. English wants to correct the mistaken impression that he had shared this video or any other information with the McMichaels prior to the McMichaels’ decision to chase Mr. Arbery. The homeowners had not even seen the February 23 video before Travis McMichael shot Mr. Arbery. When homeowner Larry English saw the photos of Mr. Arbery that were later broadcast, his first impression was that Mr. Arbery was not the man captured on video inside the house on February 23, and he said that to a neighbor.”
“Mr. English was not the one who called 911 on February 23. The only crime that the homeowner has seen captured on video is the senseless killing of Mr. Arbery
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@biff
“FrownedUpon: Very few whites with an IQ above room temperature would intentionally go to a neighborhood known for having rough blacks to have a jog. I don’t really buy that this guy was just a regular jogger who went miles from his house to this neighborhood of what he would have thought were crazy r3dn3cks/cr@ck@s just to have an innocent jog–and if he did, you’d think he would have had the presence of mind not to go into other people’s homes.”
Ahmaud’s mother stated he was an avid runner who frequently went through the Satilla Shores neighborhood, which was only 2 miles from his home. Ironically, his mom said he jogged there because he felt safe in that area. Perhaps you should listen to interviews from his family before making assumptions.
Additionally, White people in the area have admitted to exploring that SAME unconstructed house. So it’s ok for White people to go into “other people’s homes” but not Ahmaud for being curious of open construction? His mom said he was interested in being an electrician. I don’t think it’s unsuual for him to be curious about the structure of a home.
The homeowner, Larry English and his lawyer have already stated that nothing was stolen or has ever been taken from his property. So why did the McMichaels feel the need to go after this guy when they didn’t even witness a crime in progess?
Your posts wreak of a truly biased person who is not paying attention to the facts.
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Let me guess, Biff is white?
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I really don’t get white people like Biff and their apathy towards African American lives.
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@Holly
White people are incapable of seeing things from a pov that doesn’t fit their own racial bias. Reading his response made me so angry. People like him are the reason I avoid blogs because their hatred for black people is infuriating..
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Long time ago, I remember reading a post (called Faithless”) on this blog.. One the commenter wrote this ”They stack their very subjective experience up to very subjective media representations of Black people and then like the sparing differential. Which means they self-support their own illusions. Which is why Trayvon’s murder irks them to no end. Their white moral, intellectual, judicial supremacy myth begins to falter in broad daylight. Which is why they try to undermine Trayvon’s right to justice. Because they are unable to look directly at the illusion that they have conjured.”
Reading biff responses, I was reminded of this comment because it somes up biff very well
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sorry for the many comments.. xx
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@ Biff
“Usually, there are some signs when construction is taking place. I’d be surprised if it the site were completely sign free.”
Again, I have gone into houses under construction to look around numerous times. I have never once seen any signs posted.
“I don’t really buy that this guy was just a regular jogger who went miles from his house to this neighborhood of what he would have thought were crazy r3dn3cks/cr@ck@s just to have an innocent jog”
How do you know that was his opinion of the neighborhood? (Apparently it wasn’t, according to family accounts.) But if it was his opinion, then how much more would he have avoided that neighborhood as a place to commit crimes (as you allege he was doing)? If he thought it was a rough neighborhood full of crazy racist whites, why on earth would he go there to case out properties to burglarize in broad daylight?
“Yet, we hear nothing about whites who are killed in cold blood by blacks with little to no provocation (e.g., refused to hand over money when demanded).”
How often do we hear about whites who are killed in cold blood by other whites with little to no provocation? How many of these cases make more than the local news?
“white on black crime is so rare that it makes the headlines every time”
It took two months of persistent effort by Arbery’s family to get this case into the headlines.
“Even if these guys didn’t have the right to stop him for what he had done (because they incorrectly thought he had committed felony burglary) trying to stop him doesn’t make it murder if they don’t have the intent to commit a crime.”
What makes it murder depends on the law of the state. Each state has different definitions.
According to the Georgia law code: “A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.”
The McMichaels have been charged not only with murder but with felony aggravated assault. If they are found guilty of felony aggravated assault, there is no burden on the prosecution to prove intent or “malice aforethought” in the murder charge.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1
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@ biff
This is a case of murder of a human being pure and simple. No contortions, please. No late justifications.
The young guy was jogging alone and faced two grown men with guns in their hands and do you know what? Fearing for their life they felt they had to shoot him.
Fearing for their life!!! Or holding their ground? Or whatever, …Hummmmm… Two grown men!!! Armed….Or maybe I should say two weaklings!? the weakest of them all!? What the heck?
How can somebody imagine that they couldn’t subdue him without killing him?
How low has the value of human life in your society descended?
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munubantu:
“How can somebody imagine that they couldn’t subdue him without killing him?”
This is where people start making statements that put racist murderers in a position, where they had a right to do what they did.
When you ask, “How can somebody imagine that they couldn’t subdue him without killing him?”
it suggests they had a right to do so as if they’re policemen and had a valid justification outside of their own perceived justification to apprehend and engage this black man.
People, you need to be mindful of the type of verbiage you use as to not give these racists any kind of notion, that they had a right to do what they did and the only thing that comes under scrutiny is “how they could have done it” or why they couldn’t have done it without killing him.
They had no right to subdue,question, apprehend, stalk, ambush this black man, whatsoever.
So let’s not make it about HOW they did it, because then white racists like to use that to change the narrative by putting the burden on the deceased by putting into questions his actions of “resisting”, which sounds equally absurd as “subdue” within the context of both of them were not policemen.
And all 3 of these white racists, did NOT meet the criteria for a citizen’s arrest of that city and state, WHATSOEVER!
This is because they did not witness him in the immediate act of a crime, that was harming or putting another person in danger. So from start to finish, they were committing illegal, criminal activity!
And yes, i said 3, because the white racist person following and filming was an accomplice as he was filming the crime and also helping the other two white racists by blocking any possible escape route.
They were white racist criminals out to kill a black man and there was nothing he could have done to change his fate, being they were dead set on killing him, no matter what.
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https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2020/05/12/retired-da-investigator-accused-in-arberys-murder-worked-for-years-without-certification/
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@Holly
That’s the irony that can be construed as humiliating. He thought he felt safer and somewhat welcomed given all the parameters that he probably jogged there before without any problems many times before. Georgia has mixed neighborhoods, the only thing is bad elements from all sides will intrude into traditional good black neighborhoods which are abundant in the deep South.
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This gentleman, who happens to be black, explains the situation better than I could. He’s a former police officer. Hope you can at least see this short vid before jumping to conclusions (as Abagond and most of the MSM did).
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70R7S0Lp9c)
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“They had no right to subdue,question, apprehend, stalk, ambush this black man, whatsoever.”
That is central to this case.
The McMichael’s lack of rights in regards to Arbery tears the guts out of White bigots arguments about the McMichael’s intent, “rough neighborhoods”, incidents in Arbery’s past or peripheral issues about Arbery viewing a house under construction.
The actions of the McMichaels posse was not a “citizen’s arrest” or any other legalistic fiction. It was a lynching—-cold blooded murder with malice and forethought—-where perpetrators are traditionally immune to prosecution.
Will this time be different? We shall see.
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Biff said,
“This gentleman, who happens to be black, explains the situation better than I could.”
You are a conservative right ? Then hear what a 2nd admendment supporting Black Republican attorney thinks.
Unlike like your black friend here with less then 2000 subs this guy has over a million.
Of course some of his mostly white audience didn’t like what he had to say but his observations about the muder are rooted in solid legal arguments.
Their is no proof the Mr. Arbery broke the law. Rather it was the McMichaels that broke the law.
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yr-HMjlr1sU#)
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@Aja
” @Holly
White people are incapable of seeing things from a pov that doesn’t fit their own racial bias. Reading his response made me so angry. People like him are the reason I avoid blogs because their hatred for black people is infuriating..”
Bigots and their way of thinking has been passed down for generations and they are not capable of seeing us as human. They will always find something wrong with us to justify our deaths.
I am about to read a book called “Slavery by Another Name,” which looks at how White supremacy dominated American life following slavery and how it affected the justice system and way we live today. From what I’ve researched about this book, prior to 1865, Whites were the majority in jails because slaves represented the workforce. Post slavery, thousands of laws were passed to ensure Black people were imprisioned in some way. Things that make you go hmmmm…. Additionally, there was a consorted effort to deomonize Black people and it was so pervasive that Bigots are incapable of seeing us as human. So they will always see the worst in us no matter how evil their actions are towards us.
@FrownedUpon
“FrownedUpon
@Holly
That’s the irony that can be construed as humiliating. He thought he felt safer and somewhat welcomed given all the parameters that he probably jogged there before without any problems many times before. Georgia has mixed neighborhoods, the only thing is bad elements from all sides will intrude into traditional good black neighborhoods which are abundant in the deep South.”
It’s unfortunate that we can’t do something as simple as jog and or be curious about an open construction site in the deep South or elsewhere. Ahmaud should have been able to jog and live his life. However, the hate is so deep in folks who think like the McMichaels that they couldn’t even stand to see his presence in their neighborhood. They were willing to lie and throw others under the bus to justify killing this young man. I’m going to let God take care of them.
@Biff
“biff
This gentleman, who happens to be black, explains the situation better than I could. He’s a former police officer. Hope you can at least see this short vid before jumping to conclusions (as Abagond and most of the MSM did).
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70R7S0Lp9c)”
I’m reviewing this video from Brandom Tatum now and already see discrepancies. For those who don’t know, Brandon is the male version of Candice Owens. He makes a living off of being a “safe” Black man for right wingers and is comfortable with spewing their agenda on demonizing Black people. He has been called out on his inacuracies by other former officers.
Biff. One of the first statements Brandon makes in the video is that there is no video or evidence of Ahmaud ever jogging in the Satilla Shores neighborhood. That is a LIE. In fact, Ahmad’s lawyers have been interviewing neighbors who were familiar with him and even waved to him as he jogged. Below also is article which highlights Ahmaud’s family and friends sharing that he often frequented the Satilla Shores neighborhood, which I will add was only 2 miles from his home.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/what-we-know-about-the-fatal-shooting-of-ahmaud-arbery
There’s a reason why Brandon’s comments section is turned off in his video and I’m gonna flag other errors.
Also, below is a link from Larry Johnson’s lawyer showing the person believed to be who the McMichael’s apparently had a confrontation with on Feb. 11th. A person who right wingers is saying is Arbery. Funny thing is, even though the person is blurred, because he isn’t ID’d, you can clearly see he is lighter skinned than Arbery. However, I guess we all look alike, right?
(https://youtu.be/zlq-60yML1U)
More to come as I will adress Brandon’s full video in another post.
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As black conservatives, that worships Candace Owens? wow
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70R7S0Lp9c)
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Larry English
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
Rest in power
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Candace Owen is getting called out by Black conservatives for her disgusting tweets.
https://blavity.com/candace-owens-is-getting-dragged-by-her-fellow-black-republicans-for-her-asinine-comments-about-ahmaud-arbery?category1=politics&subCat=news
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Michael:
That’s an interesting video. I think the point that gentleman is missing is that it’s not necessarily whether the elements for the crime were met, but rather whether these two guys had reasonable cause to believe they had been (e.g., could they infer a burglary–which just requires intent) by this guy running like a madman after being caught inside the house and him having been seen (allegedly) breaking into houses in the neighborhood recently.
Anyway, as long as you guys realize that it’s a series of complicated questions of fact rather than an open and shut cold blooded murder case, you’ll be light years ahead and of the MSM and most of the public.
However, remember that the case of the gentle giant and skittles boy were frauds perpetrated by the MSM on the American public and the defendants were found not guilty. So let’s wait and see is uncovered here. For some reason, these cases never seem to happen to the Princeton valedictorian type..
Also, let’s also remember that black on white violent crime happens about 10X as much as white on black and it is purposely ignored by both the MSM and Abagond =(
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Candace Owens shows “Black Conservatism” is quite a lucrative hustle. Money, influence, White people claiming to respect you…whats not to love?
Oh yeah, right. Black “conservatives” specialize in throwing other Black people under the bus for thirty pieces of silver (or is that lead?).
I wonder if they ever stop to think about what they are “conserving”? Maybe the weight of that
leadsilver in their pockets is comfort enough.Works for Ms. Owens.
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“…the case of the gentle giant and skittles boy were frauds perpetrated by the MSM on the American public and the defendants were found not guilty.”
Deflections, distractions and dismissals. Attempts to conflate other cases with this one shows the frailty of your arguments.
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Biff
“But rather whether these two guys had reasonable cause to believe they had been (e.g., could they infer a burglary–which just requires intent) by this guy running like a madman after being caught inside the house and him having been seen (allegedly) breaking into houses in the neighborhood recently.”
He does cover that. The McMichaels didn’t witness the “tresspass’ or the “theft” in order to qualify for a citizens arrest as laid out in Gerogia law.
In fact that law was meant for retail shop owners to be able to stop shop lifters. It is also illegal to use lethal force to stop an alleged thief if that person poses no risk to you.
Further more it was the McMichaels aggressive moves that allowed for Ahmaud to attempt to defend himself under the law.
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Afrofem
Candace is a well paid shill
That said some black Republicans are also evangelical Christians which underlines their political position.
Many black churches are socially conservative even though their members mosley vote Democrat.
There is a spectrum of ideas within black communities just as diverse as any other group.
I think its both white conservatives and liberals that put black people into preconceived boxes that fit their idiological ideas of “how things are and what they should be”.
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Michael:
You don’t know all of the facts and you’re not a legal expert.
This statement in particular is ridiculous: “It is also illegal to use lethal force to stop an alleged thief if that person poses no risk to you.” It’s not relevant at all.
There was no use of legal force to stop an alleged thief. The shots occurred in the scuffle for the gun. The question would be whether open carry was allowed and if holding the gun during a citizen’s arrest would be permitted.
We’d have to know what these guys knew specifically to know their intent re: a possible citizen’s arrest. Did they reasonably believe he was fleeing the scene of the crime? Or did he just happen to start “jogging” very fast when people saw him inside someone else’s house?
Anyway, if they get let off or only convicted of manslaughter, you will say it’s just racism, even though you haven’t heard the cases the jury heard.
I’m not going to further debate specifics about the case, unless new key evidence emerges… just really pointing out that the media is purposefully inflaming racial hatred by taking a complicated case and making it into a supposed lynching in cold blood, which it clearly was not.
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@ MJB
I’m well aware of the diversity of ideas within the Black community.
Holding socially conservative views e.g. patriarchy, is not an excuse for valorizing White murderers and other assorted criminals.
Owens and her ilk don’t speak for me or the masses of Black people.
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“I’m not going to further debate specifics about the case…”
You haven’t “debated” specifics of this case. You have merely repeated rightwing talking points and attempted to derail the conversation about this case with random comments about other unrelated cases from the past.
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To biff,
biff said:
“We’d have to know what these guys knew specifically to know their intent re: a possible citizen’s arrest. Did they reasonably believe he was fleeing the scene of the crime?”
Here is the Georgia law regarding citizen’s arrest, it’s fairly vague, so limits would probably have to be defined by past rulings:
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/section-17-4-60/
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
Here are some examples of how citizen’s arrest in Georgia may be applied:
https://www.georgialegalaid.org/resource/rights-during-arrest
Key takeaways:
To make the arrest, an employee would have had to actually see the criminal act committed. When making a citizen’s arrest, a person may not use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest. Deadly force is limited to self-defense or to instances in which such force is necessary to prevent certain felonies.
So it would appear the worst crime Ahmaud Arbery may have committed and witnessed by the McMichaels would be trespassing (a minor misdemeanor). Hence their response, an armed pursuit and (three attempts) detention would appear to be unlawful and a gross overreaction..
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I have a horrible feeling these two degenerate devils will go free and there will be no justice for Ahmaud Aubrey.
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Mary Burrell
“I have a horrible feeling these two degenerate devils will go free and there will be no justice for Ahmaud Aubrey.”
You’d be wise to prepare yourself for such an outcome. =_=
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These racially charged cases conveniently crop up during important election years. That’s the real “southern strategy”. But most people won’t fall for it this time. It’s happened too many times. Besides, there’s no point in arguing when everyone already knows this case will end as it should.
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So they are doing what they always do. It’s appalling how they go back into a murdered black victim’s past and then demonize him.
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Character asassination after the black man is dead.
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More video tape of Ahmuad this time being harresed by the police at the park. I think it demonstrates well the police culture where he lives. He is chilling at the park and they show up wanting to get into his business.
He is somewhat coroperative though he is calling them out on harrasing him for no reason.
Ahmaud knew his rights and refused to allow them to search his car. The police say that the park he is in is “known for drug activity”.
Towards the end of the video the police talk amongst themselves about what they can do to impound his car even though they have no legal reason too.
The police originally tried to tase him, but the taser failed.
What if these were not police but white men assaulting, battering, and threatening a black man.
Would that not be counted as a crime statitic ?
I’m sure the McMichaels murder of Ahmaud has yet to be counted as a crime statistic.
And this is why people don’t understand crime statistic biases.
Police get to violate people with impunity; but only when the oppressed respond in defense is it counted as a “crime.”
This tape of course is being used by racists to bolster their claims that Ahmund is a thug and got what he deserved.
I also learned that if you found the video of Ahmaud being murdered “troubling” then that makes you part of the “outrage culture”.
(https://youtu.be/d7RmbadxRII)
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“The family of Ahmaud Arbery was relieved to learn that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has today taken William ‘Roddie’ Bryan into custody.
“We called for his arrest from the very beginning of this process. His involvement in the murder of Mr. Arbery was obvious to us, to many around the country and after their thorough investigation, it was clear to the GBI as well.
“The family of Mr. Arbery is thankful for the diligence of the GBI and they way in which they tirelessly pursued the evidence in this case.
“We want anyone who participated in the murder of Mr. Arbery to be held accountable.”
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/glynn-county/ahmaud-arbery-william-roddie-bryan-man-who-recorded-arberys-shooting-death-arrested-murder-charge/H4Z6Z557ZNAINIHAZKH5XQWLKM/
I think the GBI play here is to get Byron to testify against the McMichaels in exchange for leniency.
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All,
Please excuse my absence. I had lost 2 relatives to Covid 19 within a day of each other and it’s been a sad time. I took time away from online but wanted to finish what I started.
@Biff
A follow up to my previous post, Brandon Tatum’s video is just as I suspected, offering a very skewed version of this case. He starts off by saying people have already picked sides but should go by the facts and common sense. Yet, even as he’s trying to outline facts, he shows his bias towards Ahmaud but doesn’t apply that equally on the McMichaels.
Below are some of the IMO problematic areas re” his commentary:
1) He said there’s no “unequivocal evidence” that Ahmaud was jogging through the community that day. Yet Arbery’s family, as well as some of the Satilla Shores residents that Ahmaud’s lawyers interviewed confirmed Ahmaud regularly jogged in that neighborhood, which is only 2 miles from his home. Brandon claims the jogging scenario has been “debunked.” What makes him the authority to say that when interviews are still being gathered and already conflicts with the details Arbery’s attorneys have gathered? Why make such a definitive judgement? After all, he’s supposed to be a fair and partial former police officer 😉..
2) He talks of the house being fully built and renovated and not an open construction site as has been described. AND? Most people know that this was a house under construction and was very open and not fully finished. You can tell that even further from the publicly available video footage. That house still had a long way from being finished. Even Gregory McMichael’s 911 call notes that the house is all open and under construction. Not sure why this was even a point. It didn’t stop various people from going in and out of that home, as noted by the homeowner Larry English.
3) Upon reviewing some of the Arbery footage, he spends time talking about GA law and intent for actions that would be considered a felony are burglary. Brandon is providing his own opinion on what Arbey’s intent was in the construction and spoke as if to suggest Arbery already committed robbery. When looking at that footage, I didn’t see Arbery put anything in his pockets. The homeowner stated nothing was taken from his property. There are no police reports of Arbery robbing the property. So what’s Brandon basing his assumptions by? Seems like he was looking at the home’s structure. Of note, prior to Brandon making this video, he was corrected by a lawyer about the GA law and requirements for making a citizen’s arrest and what actually would be examples of intent to commit a felony/burglary. Despite now having a more factual depiction of the requirements, he still films his video and spreads misinformation. You can watch these videos for more details on that. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phrpZBElQv8)
https://www.facebook.com/COLIONNOIR/videos/633711160548465 or review this lawyer’s response to Brandon’s video https://www.wfirm.com/georgia-lawyers-responds-to-officer-tatum-regarding-ahmaud-arbery-accusations/
4) Side note: The homeowner Larry English has been incredibly clear that nothing was taken from his home, was not involved with the McMichaels, nor did he ask for them to watch his property. I think this is an important point to be explored later at trial.
5) Brandon then discusses how from the footage a neighbor who walks out and starts “shouting at Arbery.” Wouldn’t being yelled at startle anyone if this were the case? Since we don’t know what the neighbor said or how he was spoken to, how do we know if the person was even welcoming in tone. Recall, there was a White woman who spoke about walking in the home with her dog and how someone came out and asked her what she was doing and then left her alone without incident. No shouting, etc. The homeowner has said people have explored his construction all the time. White people in the area have admitted to walking into it, including the McMichaels. How many of them I wonder were “shouted at” or followed for questioning? Should we assume that they were all casing the place to burglarize it?
6) Brandon brings up the 911 call. If you read the transcript and or listened to the call, Gregory McMichael does not witness a crime of Ahmaud taking anything from the home. Even the 911 operator tries to get more details on what Arbery is actually doing wrong. The only clear action from that call is that G. McMichael sees is Arbery running down the street. The fact that he said Arbery has been in the neighborhood before and has been caught a bunch of times at night, hasn’t been confirmed. Show me the concrete evidence of these “string of robberies” and concrete evidence of Arbery stealing. Additionally, Court TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q17YcksOtA&t=595s delved into Travis McMichael’s 911 call from Feb. 11th where an officer Rash responded to the call. According to the report, Travis described the trespasser as lighter skinned with multiple tatoos along his arms. Even Larry English stated that he didn’t think the Black man from the Feb. 11th and other night visits was Arbery. If possible, please link to any definitive reports you have that show Arbery committed any criminal activity at Satilla Shores.
7) Side note: These string of burglaries that the McMichael’s stated don’t even match up with reports from the local police. Gregory McMichaels mentioned someone’s $2500 in fishing equipment being stolen. We now know that equipment belonged to Larry English. During English’s CNN interview, he said that incident was blown out of proportion. He said the fishing equipment was on his boat that was being transported from Brunswick to his other home and that he doesn’t know when in transport the equipment was taken. So aside from that and Travis McMichael’s gun being taken, what are these string of burglaries that happened and where are the police reports for them? Guess those will materialize out of thin air.
8) The fact remains the McMichaels did not witness a burglary/felony in progress and had no right to chase Arbery like they did. Gregory McMichael in particular didn’t have a right to make a citizen’s arrest. And I mean that literally https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/former-police-officer-charged-in-ahmaud-arbery-death-lost-power-to-arrest-after-skipping-use-of-force-training
9) Arbery was also NOT obligated to stop for them. Frankly, if I see men chasing me with guns out, I wouldn’t stop either. That’s just common sense. Brandon gets the GA LAW WRONG in his video to justify the McMichael’s actions. Refer to the YouTube videos I linked if you need a refresher. Additionally, the McMichaels didn’t even state in the police report that they were making a citizen’s arrest. Funny how those details come out a month later from the opinion letter DA George Barnhill wrote. His actions/conduct for writing that letter are now under investigation. But that’s a whole other topic.
10) Brandon’s summary about how the McMichaels were arrested for murder due to public outrage is his opinion. The GBI made the arrest and charges based on the evidence. The only thing public pressure did was bring this case forward since it was being buried and Ahmaud’s family knew things didn’t add up.
The fact that police told Ahmaud’s mother that he died due to a burglary incident with a homeowner when that wasn’t true is alarming.
The fact that the police wanted to make arrests that day and were told by DA to hold off is alarming. https://www.instagram.com/p/CAJU7cggQ2Z/
As of today [5/21/2020], William Roddie Bryan has now also been arrested and the FBI announced it’s joining in the investigation. Hmmmm.
Additionally, there are reports that Travis McMichael’s classmates are speaking out and sharing how much of a racist he was.
Also, some neighbors have begun sharing screenshots from the community’s Neighborhood Watch FB page with the Arbery’s attorney. Can’t wait to see what those show.
Finally, I find it odd that Lindsay McMichael would post a photo of Ahmaud’s dead body on her Snapchat and that the picture was widely circulated in the neighborhood. Do you not find that sick?
I also see that the media is now trying to character assassinate Ahmaud by showing different videos of him from 2017. Taken from the MSM playbook for a reason.
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This is not related to Ahmaud but have you seen this? The police literally murder a man on the sidewalk by kneeling into his neck for minutes.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-shows-minneapolis-cop-with-knee-on-neck-of-motionless-moaning-man-he-later-died/
I have not watched the facebook video through yet. I started it and heard the victim pleading for his life and, knowing he was killed, I already had enough. We have repeated evidence of the callous disregard for human lives but I don’t think I’ll ever truly understand it on a soul level. Hate in human form.
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The man’s name is George Floyd. He was suspected of forgery. The four officers involved in his killing have been fired but they deserve much more than a new job at a neighboring department. The officer that directly kneed Floyd to death is Derek Chauvin. There are reports of protests in Minneapolis.
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Linda Sarsour is speaking mainly to white people here but its powerful and worth a watch. The last few days have been crazy.
“Amy Coopers are everywhere & other things”
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158858076870572&id=512975571
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Holly:
Sorry for your loss. You spent a lot of time on your latest post. All I’m going to say is we’ll see. A jury will get to hear the facts and make a determination. In the final analysis, Arbery was killed because he rushed an armed man and tried to take the weapon from him. Stupid thing to do even if all parties involved may have been bad actors.
The George Floyd thing is tough to watch. You don’t fight with cops and resist their attempts to get you out of a vehicle. Most people (including white folk) would expect a severe beat down if they did that. However, the dude didn’t deserve to die, and continuing that when the guy is already in handcuffs and gasping for air seems pretty sick.
The Amy Cooper thing is just kinda ridiculous. Black people do disgusting things to white people all the time, but it doesn’t make the news.
What if Black on white violent crime was reported in proportion to how much it happens, so we’d hear 10X about Black on white atrocities for every 1 time we get to hear about the reverse? What if white players were so disgusted by all of that that they kneeled down at games to protest all those Black on white crimes and the media breathlessly supported them?
I’m sure you guys will think of some witty comebacks, but the media just manipulates you and you don’t even realize it. Biden is just too open about it because he’s senile, but everything is meant to program you to think that if you don’t vote for the Dems, party of former slaveholders and the current elite, that “you ain’t Black.” The good news is that all the time the media takes covering these recent events means a little less time to protest the reopening and people trying to keep their small businesses open and put food on the table for their families.
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“What if Black on white violent crime was reported in proportion to how much it happens, so we’d hear 10X about Black on white atrocities for every 1 time we get to hear about the reverse?”
No one hears about “Black on [W]hite atrocities” because they are non-existent. These so-called “atrocities” are made up by Euro-American bigots to serve as strawman fallacies. They are presented to deflect from and counter actual documented atrocities against Black people. Talk about projection!
If “Black on [W]hite atrocities” were based on factual information, they would be featured in every White-owned media in this country and beyond. From the New York Times to Brietbart, CNN to Fox
OpinionNews, leaders of the White community would be screaming for revenge attacks.Instead they spend their ink and air time with celebrity gossip and defaming Black people lynched by police and vigilantes.
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Biff,
Thank you. It has been a tough couple of weeks.
Yes, we will see how things play out. More information is surfacing, especially about that Neighborhood Watch FB page and the McMichael’s coordinated effort to confront Arbery. Also, one of Travis’ HS classmates spoke out today and said he was no longer going to standby in silence. He went as far as to state that Travis was known for being a “racist, gun-loving redn****,” and encouraged other classmates to come forward. Based on your “final analysis,” you are not waiting for all of the facts and have already blamed Arbery for his death. I disagree with your assessment. If you watch the video, Travis is standing outside of his truck on the left driver’s side. Arbery does not run towards him; he runs to the right side of the truck to AVOID Travis. Travis moves from the left side of the truck and comes around. He is the aggressor. If you see someone has a gun pointed at you, you move into a fight or flight response. Arbery fought for his life. It was either fight or run the risk of possibly getting shot in the back.
Watching cops brutally murder George Floyd was sickening and sad. Show me the video of him resisting arrest. From the additional footage that has been captured by nearby security cams and a person who filmed video from behind the police vehicle, George was complying. Even if he had resisted initially, other former cops have pointed out that the moment he was handcuffed and on the ground not moving, there was no justification for the excessive force officer Chauvin used to keep his knee on the man’s neck for 5-8 minutes. There is no excuse here. Additionally, it has now been reported that the police were called due to an alleged counterfeit $10 bill that someone used and it’s not yet known if it was George’s. I am sure more will come out and there’s a reason why Mayor Frey is calling for charges against the arresting officer. Hopefully all 4 officers will be charged. BTW: I have seen plenty of White people resisting arrest who manage to live. You can easily search YouTube videos of White people resisting arrest, including a White guy who resisted arrest with a weapon and the cop did not use his gun. Amazing how that works.
I am sure there are some Black people who do disgusting things to White people. Perhaps you should ask news editors to report more stories to fit that narrative; much like the right-wing blog sources you use do. More than likely, a Black person doing something horrible to someone White is either arrested and prosecuted or killed. Amy Cooper knew very well that she used her White privilege to falsely accuse Christian Cooper in her 911 call. There are plenty of “Karen” stories. She is lucky he wasn’t killed. She reminds me of the playbook some White women historically used to accuse Black men of doing things they didn’t (read Emmitt Till/sundown towns) or even most recently the White mother in Miami who admitted to lying about saying two Black men drowned her Autistic son.
However when one considers crime, outcomes from the DOJ’s Bureau of Justice report stated, “The percentage of violence committed against a Black victim by a white offender who was a stranger (50 percent) was higher than the percentage committed by a Black offender who was a stranger (38 percent).” https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rhovo1215_sum.pdf
Also, since MN is on my mind, did you know that Minneapolis police kill Black people at 13x the rate they do Whites? Perhaps the media’s coverage is in direct proportion to how things are.
If White players kneeled to peacefully protest White victims of Black police brutality, Black people would understand. You see the difference from your thinking is that since we have been oppressed, we are more empathetic (perhaps to a fault) of other group’s pain. We do not pull fits over peaceful protests to bring attention to injustice.
I think you have been manipulated by the media sources you choose and only see things from a skewed lens that aligns with your thinking. Your comments about Biden and how you feel Black people think show me that you clearly do not follow Black media and you don’t know how we think. Our people are not a monolith and I find your comment woefully ignorant and arrogant.
Finally, most people want America to open back so people can feed their families. Some of us agree with following the data and want to do it safely and unprematurely. You certainly do not see us storming state capitals with guns to “protest.” Although I love how the media likes to call that patriotic. Funny how majority White protestors (including militia types) are not tear gassed and met with rubber bullets.
Have a good one.
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Holly just a few quick responses:
Like I said, don’t know that there were any good actors in the Arbery situation if you accept that decent people wouldn’t bring guns to high school games (which it sure sounds like you don’t).
Google the video of Floyd releasing arrest. It was in a car, but yes might have been much earlier. Cops tend to be vindictive. What happened was totally out of line and they were fired and should get prosecuted–no arguments. However, the riots and looting are tragic. The Ferguson effect killed literally thousands of mostly black young men, due to less aggressive police enforcement (you can see it in the statistics for the relevant cities–the murder rate goes down for years and then suddenly spikes after Ferguson). It saddens me you guys don’t care about all those black lives that will be lost.
Your one cherry picked statistic just shows that people are more likely to know folks of their own race. It’s 64% for black on white crime coming from a stranger. Also, the statistics in that report seem to be intentionally misleading, since they are based on numbers per X persons and Blacks are still a much smaller fraction of the total population than whites. The Black criminality level is much much higher on a per capita basis.
Lives lost are lives lost. The number of Blacks killed by white police officers is tiny compared to the number of whites killed by Blacks overall.
“Funny how majority White protestors (including militia types) are not tear gassed and met with rubber bullets.”
Funny how majority white protestors don’t loot stores indiscriminately, burn buildings down, break into cars and attack police officers.
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The tear gas is out now.
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“Funny how majority white protestors don’t loot stores indiscriminately, burn buildings down, break into cars and attack police officers.”
When White people “protest” they are aided and abetted by the police. In the most extreme cases, White “protesters” show up armed with assault rifles and racist symbols, like Confederate flags and swastikas. One example is the 2016 armed “protest” of Euro-American bigots in front of a NAACP building in a Black neighborhood in Houston, TX.
In that “protest”, the heavily armed bigots were protected by a contingent of police on foot and on horseback.
In a more recent example of White “protest” behavior, White men armed with assault rifles were unmolested by police (or anyone else) when they decried COVID-19 restrictions at the Michigan statehouse. According to the article:
https://www.click2houston.com/news/politics/2020/05/02/michigan-militia-puts-armed-protest-in-the-spotlight/
Funny how Black people are excoriated for reactive actions that occur against targets in Black neighborhoods, while White people are given a pass for proactive and premeditated actions, including armed threats against majority White legislators.
Yes, funny indeed!
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The number of Blacks killed by white police officers is tiny compared to the number of whites killed by Blacks overall.*
Prove it.
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I watched numerous FB live streams last night. This wasn’t just blacks protesting. A lot of white people joined as well.
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Afrofem: Sounds like you’re not a big fan of the 2nd amendment.
Please see the following link based on Bureau of Justice info:
https://vdare.com/posts/bjs-2018-criminal-victimization-survey-hispanics-committed-64-of-interracial-violent-felonies-between-hispanics-and-whites
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@ Biff
“the media just manipulates you and you don’t even realize it”
You’ve made several assertions along these same lines, both on this thread and others, but I fail to see what makes you think so. Abagond and others here have been highly critical of Biden, other Democrats, and the whole Democratic party as an entity. On what facts exactly are you basing your theory that people here are easily manipulated?
“Funny how majority white protestors don’t loot stores indiscriminately, burn buildings down, break into cars and attack police officers.”
The majority of black protesters don’t, either.
And vis-a-vis your most recent comment, Hispanic is not a race (or a skin color).
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Holly,
Sorry to hear about the loss of your two relatives, my condolences.
“Although I love how the media likes to call that patriotic.”
I get the impression it’s the Trump supporters (Fox, Breitbart) who would use the term patriotic for the re-open up protests and not CNN, NY Times etc, but I don’t watch TV and am very selective with my news sources.
“Funny how majority White protestors (including militia types) are not tear gassed and met with rubber bullets.”
Open carry laws and loop holes allow behavior that is quite shocking to people outside the US and personally I would never knowingly attend a protest where some of participants are armed.
I can’t say how these incidents compare exactly but there have been armed protests involving Black Americans in the modern era that did not result in arrests:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-police-blackpanthers-exclusive/new-black-panther-party-says-to-carry-arms-in-cleveland-if-legal-idUSKCN0ZS1Z7
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/armed-black-panthers-protest-sandra-bland-death-article-1.2324234
Then there was this historical incident:
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article148667224.html
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To Solitaire:
“The majority of black protesters don’t, either.”
Agree – There is often a small percentage of protestors that perform violent or opportunistic acts to push their agenda (or line their pockets). The “black block” (These are mostly white people but are called the black block because they often wear all black clothing and masks) comes to mind. They insert themselves into protests that are intended to be peaceful with the intention of actively causing mayhem, often successfully.
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Racism is violent. I’m not sure how the victims’ struggle is delegitimized by defensive violence. Violent is exactly what Americans were when they decided the Brits were being unfair and that’s why the country exists today.
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By the way, the 3rd precinct police station in Minneapolis has been taken over and razed. I guess the police ran.
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Surveillance video appears to contradict police claims that George Floyd resisted arrest, as do witness accounts:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/video-george-floyd-contradict-resist-trnd/index.html
Floyd was a security guard and worked at the same club as the cop who murdered him (although the owner says it’s possible they didn’t know each other):
https://kstp.com/news/george-floyd-fired-officer-overlapped-security-shifts-at-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990/
While anything is possible, I find it difficult to believe that someone with the experience of being a security guard resisted arrest — although what the cops consider resisting arrest these days can be as minor as asking for their badge number.
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CNN crew arrested while covering the events in Minneapolis; krazy killer kops still at large.
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I wonder why Abagond has not yet open a new thread to discuss the killing of George Floyd. There many issues in this case that merit a proper place of discussion.
It was awful, pure evil!
I keep asking myself why the America police, as an institution, doesn’t timely purge itself of these unprofessional, rogue, and emotionally unstable elements. Is it really better to protect those agents – because they are your colleagues – and risk to attract the wrath of the population you are supposed to serve or purge them summarily of the institution? Now a whole city is going through a very stressful time because of that.
The attitudes of the POTUS related to this event will be very interesting to follow.
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@ munubantu
The post will be up soon.
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The George Floyd post is up:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/05/29/george-floyd/
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“I can’t say how these incidents compare exactly but there have been armed protests involving Black Americans in the modern era that did not result in arrests…”
Two of the links led to articles about the New Black Panthers (NBP).
I’ve heard quite a bit about the NBP over the past couple of decades, very little of which was positive. Many veterans of the Black Panther Party (BPP) have expressed contempt and dismay about the NBP. They are considered little more than a theatrical troupe. They have contributed very little to the Black communities where they claim membership; no social programs, no educational programs, no economic programs.
Even the 2016 Reuters article admitted:
In addition to their theatrical bigotry, the NBP are also ineffectual. It wouldn’t be too hard to imagine them as funded by government agencies to provide media distractions and a circus atmosphere.
As to the third link, BPP protesters were not arrested during their 1967 protest. They were however, disarmed, detained and questioned. The bill they were protesting passed and was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan.
The Obama administration (and congressional Democrats) actually encouraged White gun culture by promoting and signing a law in 2010 that allowed people to carry guns in national parks. According to a Mother Jones article, one gun rally organizer gave Obama credit for their armed rally:
“Tom Fernandez, a Florida real estate agent and founder of Alarm and Muster, speaking from Ft. Hunt Park, Va., said, “It was President Obama who signed the law that lets us open carry in this park today and we had the gall to take him up on it. That’s the only thing I’m going to thank our president for.”
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/04/armed-protesters-give-thanks-barack-obama/
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biff,
Followed the link you provided as proof of your repeated assertion that there is an out of control wave of so-called Black on White crime. What I found was:
➤ A White supremacist anti-immigration site that in its own words seeks to “preserve and celebrate the distinctive culture of America.” That is an identity they insist is solely White.
➤ A fictitious bar graph that claimed to show high levels of so-called Black on White crime. The graph listed as a source the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), National Crime Victimization Survey, 2018 (Table 14).
A search for that data lead to this pdf document: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf
Looking at Table 14 of the document reveals:
➤ That article’s claims about Black people being “overrepresented among perpetrators of hate crimes…” also was based on fiction. According to the Justice Department statistics they linked to re: hate crimes:
Of the 6,266 known offenders:
53.6% were White
24.0% were Black or African American
12.9% race unknown
https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics
biff, your “proof” does not pan out. There is no Black on White crime wave. It is a bit of defensive propaganda you like to trot out to derail, deflect and dismiss discussions of the very real incidents of violence perpetrated against Black people by police of all ethnicities and other Black people.
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To Afrofem:
“In addition to their theatrical bigotry, the NBP are also ineffectual. It wouldn’t be too hard to imagine them as funded by government agencies to provide media distractions and a circus atmosphere.”
Agree with you on the NBP’s bigotry – as for being government funded I doubt it albeit they could have some infiltrators as is apparently common with any group right, left, or otherwise that is anti-government. Some of the white militia types are even nuttier but they appear to be fully a type of home grown stupidity.
FWIW, some black open carry protesters not associated with the NBP:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/28/we-have-arm-ourselves-michigan-demonstrators-protest-brutality/5275209002/
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To Lemmy:
Point taken. Thanks for the link.
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The assassins of Ahmaud Arbery were actually not two but three! Three!!! Chasing a human being!
What happened to America? How many demons walk your space disguised as common men? Pure evil what they do!
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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html
I forgot to put this link in the message above.
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He was a fukin thief who got his dumb ass shot.
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For the record, the guy I asked Biff about at https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/05/11/ahmaud-arbery/#comment-439901 and https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/05/11/ahmaud-arbery/#comment-440187 was George Zimmerman, whom Biff has defended in numerous threads.
Biff wrote: ““The other big thing for me is if I heard there was a white dude accused of a crime who had earlier been busted trying to get a gun into a high school game, I would think that was a scummy guy. I wouldn’t have much sympathy for him, because I would believe, absent some major conversion experience, that he was likely up to no good…” but he forgot the caveat: “unless that white dude was accused of killing an unarmed black man.” In which case Biff will not only defend the white dude but write reams about how he is a brave and patriotic hero.
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“He was a fukin thief who got his dumb ass shot.”
Where is your proof Arbery was a thief?
If walking through a house under construction and taking nothing from the building site is thievery, then a whole bunch of Euro-Americans in that Georgia town should also be shot.
The lynch mob who chased Arbery and filmed their crime were the thieves. They stole a young man’s life and devastated a family and a community.
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Endly, Rest In Peace, Ahmaud Arbery!
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https://abagond.wordpress.com/2021/11/23/travis-mcmichael/#comment-569258
Travis McMichael, Gregory McMichael, and William “Roddie” Bryan have not only all been found guilty of murder, but they face federal hate crime charges which are scheduled to go to trial in February.
District Attorney Jackie Johnson lost her reelection bid last November and was indicted in September 2021 for a felony charge of violating her oath of office.
Georgia’s 1863 law giving citizens the power of arrest was overturned in May 2021, with strong bipartisan support for the repeal.
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