As I write this in April 2020 the US is the epicentre of the coronavirus (covid-19) pandemic that is gripping the world. Within the US it is hitting Black people much harder than White people.
The numbers: The US government does not gather numbers on covid-19 deaths by race, but some states and cities do. The bits and pieces that have come out so far are not pretty.
As of April 7th, Blacks accounted for:
- 81% of deaths in Milwaukee (which is 26% Black)
- 70% in Louisiana (33% Black)
- 68% in Chicago (30% Black)
- 40% of in Michigan (14% Black)
- 28% in New York City (22% Black)
Presumably Latinos and Native Americans are being hit hard too – or will be.
None of this comes as a surprise:
Martin Luther King Jr in 1967:
“Of the good things in life, the Negro has approximately one half those of whites. Of the bad things of life, he has twice those of whites. Thus, half of all Negroes live in substandard housing. And Negroes have half the income of whites. When we turn to the negative experiences of life, the Negro has a double share: There are twice as many unemployed; the rate of infant mortality among Negroes is double that of whites;”
Black proverb:
“If White America has a cold, Black America has the flu.”
It is not hard to guess at some of the likely causes:
Blacks, compared to Whites, are less likely to:
- be tested;
- be able to work from home;
- have good health insurance – or any insurance;
- have paid sick leave;
- have a second home in the country they can escape to;
- be able to quit work and be cushioned by generational wealth.
Blacks are more likely to:
- have an underlying health condition (asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure);
- be an essential worker;
- take a bus or train to work;
- live in a health care desert;
- live in an extended family;
- be homeless;
- be in prison.
And so on.
All these things make covid-19 worse for Blacks. Poverty underlies much of it, but underlying that poverty is structural racism, what the country was built on. (In 2018, 22% of Blacks lived in poverty, only 9% of Whites did.)
But it is not just poverty or class. Even when Blacks have the same health insurance as a White person, still they receive worse health care.
Genetics possibly plays a part, but for all we know Blacks have greater resistance.
And, as you might guess, it is not just covid-19. That is just the flavour of the month. Blacks also have higher death rates than Whites for heart disease, stroke, cancer, asthma, influenza and pneumonia, diabetes, and HIV/AIDS. Even homicide! Yes. So if you shoot a White person and a Black person, the Black person is more likely to die! The game is that rigged.
On the bright side, large numbers of White Americans are dying of covid-19 too. That means they will have to do something about it, like find a vaccine. It will not just be another Flint, Michigan. Or Hurricane Maria.
– Abagond, 2020.
Sources: mainly Vox, Verge, The Root.
See also:
- The coronavirus
- coronavirus glossary
- social distancing
- Black Americans
- Martin Luther King, Jr: Where Do We Go From Here? – the source of that quote
- Black proverbs
- medical apartheid
- The Tuskegee Experiment
- Flint Water Crisis
- Hurricane Katrina
- Hurricane Maria
- “It’s not race, it’s class”
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“On the bright side, large numbers of White Americans are dying of covid-19 too. That means they will have to do something about it, like find a vaccine. It will not just be another Flint, Michigan. Or Hurricane Maria.”
Like the vaccine they found for the opioid epidemic? Your faith in the White man is really touching. Big white daddy can solve any problem!
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Brother it is also happening here in the UK. We are the minority, yet we are the majority the virus is affecting most. I find that very disturbing. I ask myself what is really going on.
Also I found this after researching. I am not sure how accurate this information is but please put these numbers into google and tell me what you find US2006257852, WO2004092360, EP3172319B1 all patents. The UK is doing testing but at snails pace and I mean real slow no urgency whatsoever. Just like in the USA telling everyone they have to stay inside accept for exercise or shopping
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My mother who is 81 years old and had the virus but recovered. Many others weren’t so lucky where she lives.
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@ gro jo
Yes, that does sound naive. Earlier drafts ended with “Hopefully” and “(said Abagond naively)”. But if I had to bet, I would bet that there will be a vaccine sometime next year and that the government will have to give it to the vast majority, even homeless people and prisoners, to prevent another huge outbreak.
However, it could get to the stage where it is no longer a huge issue among well-to-do Whites because they have decent health care but still bedevil Blacks or even just the bottom 80% of the US regardless of race. At that point covid-19 will no longer be a “real issue” because it no longer affects Real People.
You saw that with AIDS – only when gay White men got it did it become a “crisis”, and even then President Reagan did not take it seriously. Who dies makes a huge difference.
And I think we will find that Governor Cuomo of New York acted too slowly because covid-19 did not appear on his radar till well-to-do White people started getting it.
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We have to wear mask now. I was wearing them when this pandemic first started. Wearing mask will make black men more vulnerable to profiling and harassment by law enforcement.
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Two generations of food deserts and water shut offs in major cities like Detroit and Baltimore are also contributing factors.
Add to that the massive loss of houses in the 2008 Financial Crisis.
All of those blows and more left Black people standing on the edge of a cliff. COVID-19 is just the latest gust of wind to blow Black people into the abyss.
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@Herneith: That’s wonderful your mother pulled through.
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Who in the United States government gave the order not to collect data based on race? I have been working in Health law for over 50 years and since the 1970’s the United States has consistently collected data based on race. To so in this instance, when they are collecting other demographic information had to be a conscious decision specific to the Coronavirus.
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The Racialization and Stigmatization of Covid-19 by Targeting So-Called African Americans! It’s Just Another Incident of Hate in the Good Old USA!
The Coronavirus was first identified in Wuhan, China in December 2019. Many of those sickened shortly thereafter, from what appeared to be suffering from pneumonia like symptoms after visiting a live animal market in Wuhan. However, officials were quick to say that there was no evidence of the virus being able to jump from person to person. The first death in China, reportedly because of the Coronavirus was in early January of 2020.
There were efforts being pushed by the corporate media and social media as well to refrain from stigmatizing Asians due to their eating habits of supposedly exotic animals.
The first U.S. death supposedly due to the Coronavirus was supposedly in late January, 2020. It was a man from Washington State who had recently visited Wuhan, China, of all places.
At first in the US, the Coronavirus appeared to be glomming themselves disproportionately to Caucasians. So much so, that one big question was being asked on social media was: Are so-called African Americans immune to Covid-19?
Furthermore, in the very beginning, the demographics weren’t being reported as to who was more prone to being affected and die from this illness. Perhaps the order of things at that time was intentionally done so by the corporate media in order to refrain from painting with a broad brush, which would ultimately result in stigmatizing Caucasians as a group.
However, on or about April 7th, 2020, (give or take a few days), a different face was being splashed across the television screens across Amerika and globally for that matter. Now, so-called African Americans were being ushered in as the poster children for Covid-19.
For the most part, officials and non-officials were saying things like: Since African Americans as a group are more prone to underlying health condition such as diabetes, asthma and high blood pressure, just to name a few, well then, these condition were utilized as a pretext to explain or justify the SUPPOSED Covid-19 deaths in minority communities. (yeah, .. right)
Hell, .. even Sambo Specialist, that is, US Surgeon General Jerome Adams chimed in and stigmatized so-called African Americans and Latinos by saying: “refrain from “alcohol, tobacco and drugs” to protect their health during the pandemic.”
“He told Black and Latino communities to “step it up” and follow social distancing and hand-washing guidelines, and “avoid alcohol, tobacco and drugs.” Do it, “if not for yourself, then for your abuela, do it for your grand-daddy, do it for your big mama, do it for your pop pop,” Adams urged. (Huffpost 4/10/2020)
And then later added: Jerome Adams then said he didn’t mean to offend and his advice was for “all Americans.” He was addressing the disproportionate rate of minority deaths. He then added insult to injury by placing his foot in his mouth once again by stating: “And it’s possibly, in fact, likely, that the burden of social ills is also contributing.” (It’s long past this being a possibility, it’s a fact)
Mr. Adams, give me a break and please spare the rest of us with your cultural terms that sought to disarm the offended with plausibility, but yet, you threw sincerity out the window for a pat on the shoulder and some crumbs that were hesitantly shoved from the elite’s scrap table.
But yet, and in stark contrast, I don’t recall Mr. Adams standing behind the presidential podium and chastising the Chinese for their eating habits of supposed exotic animals. This wouldn’t have been in the least sense stigmatization because it was on the menu at Chinese restaurants; or better yet, criticize the Chinese for flooding this country with Fentanyl, a synthetic opioid.
However, I did recognize a rallying cry from various communal corners to support Asia businesses in order to stem the tide of cultural stigmatization.
Additionally, Mr. Adams didn’t even have the gall to tell white Americans to “step it up”, as he clearly did with so-called African Americans and Latinos, to get off of the drugs; clean themselves up and quit riding the opioid addiction train as transient, hobos and quit abandoning their kids due to the addiction.
The end results here, in most instances is that the kids are usually placed in foster homes because both parents were either too strung out on drugs to do so, or they had both succumbed to the persistent calls of death. And of course, eventually the tax payers picked up the tabs in order to financially support these kids. (I see you over there New England States/Northeast states; Mid-Atlantic states, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the District of Columbia, among others)
Once again, I did recognize that the US government was and still is providing opioid addiction treatment for Caucasians. However, no such endeavor was made during the crack epidemic of the 1980’s that impacted Black and Spanish communities all over this country.
Yes, .. I see you Amerika, your bountifulness or cornucopia of hate for us never trend in the direction to abate!
(I’m not done with you Amerika, part 2 forthcoming / Fudging the COVID-19 Numbers)
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/timeline-coronavirus-started/story?id=69435165
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209710/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/surgeon-general-jerome-adams-minorities-drugs-drinking-tobacco-covid-19_n_5e910917c5b6f7b1ea811195
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20191025/one-region-is-being-hit-hardest-by-us-opioid-crisis#2
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I really wanted to say something here but don’t think I should, all I know is we melanated people are sick and tired of being the targets for everything.
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Genuinely glad you are surviving during these challenging times. Thought I’d pay a visit. You never disappoint.
Some thoughts to consider:
–Blacks are more likely to be in city centers, where people are closer together and outbreaks hit harder.
–Blacks are more likely to have “underlying health conditions,” which account for the vast majority of the fatalities.
–Black are more likely not to follow social distancing guidelines, and in fairness it’s harder to do so if you’re in the inner city for instance.
–Globally, this disease has hit whites the hardest–at least if you can believe the Chinese numbers–the virus doesn’t do well in warm moist weather, so places in italy, Spain and NYC are the worst, while Africa has not been affected that severely (although there are some cases obviously).
–This disease hit a lot of famous people–leaders, people who went to the Alps to ski.. people who shake a lot of hands–it hit a lot of rich white people very hard and disproporionately.
But, that kind of nuance in thinking would be too much to ask for. Here it’s all about WHITE RACISM–Chinese disease is whitey’s fault–blame whitey and try to guilt whitey into solving your problems (no discussion of all those of African descent who are developing cures/solutions.)
How about a piece on the racism of the Chinese gov’t hunting down black people in Guangzhou? Nah.. better stick with Orange Man Bad.
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The Coronavirus (COVID-19) Is Being Weaponized, Stigmatized and Incentivized Against So-Called African Americans by Fudging the Number of Infections and Deaths!
What is a Virus?
“Viruses are simply packets of nucleic acid, either DNA or RNA, surrounded by a protein shell and sometimes fatty materials called lipids. Outside a living cell, a virus is a dormant particle, lacking the raw materials for reproduction. Only when it enters a host cell does it go into action, hijacking the cell’s metabolic machinery to produce copies of itself that may burst out of infected cells or simply bud off a cell membrane. This lack of self-sufficiency means that viruses cannot be cultured in artificial media for scientific research or vaccine development; they can be grown only in living cells, fertilized eggs, tissue cultures, or bacteria.” (NCBI/NIH.gov)
It has been reported by US government officials and the CDC that underlying health conditions such as asthma, diabetes and high blood pressure greatly increases one’s viral or pathogen susceptibility. However, this isn’t always the case, at least not in the manner in which it is being reported. Most news reports were equated to the level of fear-mongering at its best by the corporate media and some high ranking officials as well.
“Human travel and commerce have brought other risks. Almost 2 million passengers, each a potential carrier of infection, travel daily by aircraft to international destinations. International commerce, especially in foodstuffs, adds to the global traffic of disease-causing microbes.” (NCBI/NIH.gov)
On average, most people that are ignorantly referred to as African Americans, do not travel by air to international destinations as frequent as so-called white Americans. This in turn or reality means that due to the higher frequency of international air travel by so-called white Americans, this places themselves in a position that could increase their chances of contracting a microorganism due to the consumption of certain foods, that could potentially wreak havoc on the body or perhaps even death.
“Microorganisms capable of causing disease—pathogens—usually enter our bodies through the mouth, eyes, nose, or urogenital openings, or through wounds or bites that breach the skin barrier. Organisms can spread—or be transmitted—by several routes.” (NCBI/NIH.gov)
Noticeably, and relative to the passage above, in no manner, shape or form is asthma, diabetes and high blood linked to a higher viral susceptibility as it was reported through the corporate media. These types of reports that attempted to cultivate a biological/racial link to the Coronavirus were complete madness and utter nonsense that were apparently hyped and vocalized by reporters coached and mentored by Dr. Frankenstein.
Fudging the Covid-19 Number in Order to Transform
from a Mostly Asian and White Face to a Primarily Black Face!
Recently, there were reports given through testimonial support by political officials and media reports that I never even gave any thought towards. The reports centered on one Scott Jensen, a Senator from the State of Minnesota and who also practices as a Family Physician as well. He criticized the CDC’s guidelines on declaring Covid-19 deaths as being “ridiculous”.
The CDC said in most pertinent part: “In cases where a definite diagnosis of Covid-19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty) it is acceptable to report Covid-19 on a death certificate as “probable or presumed.” (Fox News, 4.9.2020)
Senator Jensen was on the Laura Ingram show and responded by saying that he had just read the CDC’s manual for Physicians earlier in the day and that the manual in question reiterated “precision and specificity”.
“The idea that we are going to allow people to massage and sort of game the numbers is a real issue because we are going to undermine the trust.” (Dr. Jensen)
“Dr. Fauci chimed and said: “You will always have conspiracy theories when you have a very challenging public health crisis. They are nothing but distractions!”
Dr. Jensen continued by saying: “I would remind him that any time healthcare intersects with dollars it gets awkward. If you have a Covid-19 admission to the hospital, you’ll get paid 13K dollars. If that Covid-19 patient is placed on a ventilator, you get 39K dollars.”
So, this explains this sudden and at first, unexplained increase of diagnosis of Covid-19 amongst so-called African Americans. There are numerous videos by former patients and Nurses on Youtube that attest to African Americans being told that they have been diagnosed as having the Coronavirus without even being tested. Go figure ….
But the monetary incentive to be hateful, in-compassionate, a soulless being, a creature of Frankenstein, imprecise or arbitrarily place on the hospital’s visitation form or the death certificate, the disposition as Covid-19 being the culprit is too great a moment to resist because of the money.
Yes indeed, money is placed above truth; facts are thrown under the bus and quickly supplanted by bold face lies and thereby, uprooting the trust that was once held in high esteem.
Yes, .. so-called African Americans, Amerika still HATES YOU because of no other reason than merely the beautiful color of our skin tone!
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6148398329001#sp=show-clips
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209710/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6924889/
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Glad you came back to visit Biff. lol
The Mediterranean is more hot to mild then cold. It is still unclear yet how this virus will be affected by warmer weather. This is not the flu.
The Nordic countries have much lower rates then Southern Europe. Sweden is taking the herd immunity approach and letting nature cull their society. Using your weather argument they would all have catastrophic rates by now if cooler weather was a factor.
New York was hit hard primarily because of population density and reliance on public transportation.
Rich people travel a lot and planes turned out to be flying petri dishes.
Mega churches including black ones become clusters.
Black infection rates are only a few percentage points higher in Los Angels as compared to the rest of the population here so high infection rates for blacks are not consistently high in every state in the U.S.
It is true that lack of health care access leads to preexisting conditions and that that leads to higher mortality rates.
Yes there have been discussions about China’s rascist actions against Black Africans.
Nigeria is producing their own ventilators and the general consensus down there is that they don’t need whitey to come save them.
Trump is still an idiot as he bull dozes his way through this. But you might get your second Trump term wish Biff.
I have yet to hear somebody say “I wish Joe was in charge”. Trumps base are still exited about Trump and likely that will get them to go out and vote. Biden doesn’t really excite the party which means a lot will go to vote against Trump rather then for Biden so fewer people show up too vote.
The only thing that might change this scenario would be a strong VP choice (someone like Cumo) or a second wave of the virus returns in the fall resulting in the economy getting hammered bad.
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coronavirus numbers are basically like crime stats at this point, YMMV
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@ Biff
“Some thoughts to consider:”
I feel like you thought you were about to post some thoughts people haven’t considered. Then you listed a few thoughts that are exactly what people are considering… Have you actually considered them?
“–Blacks are more likely to be in city centers, where people are closer together and outbreaks hit harder.”
Have you considered that many live there because racism made living anywhere else impractical if not impossible? Pondering the financial, educational and generational implications of redlining and job discrimination would be an easy place to begin your consideration. (even if you believe those things ended in the 70’s)
“–Blacks are more likely to have “underlying health conditions,” which account for the vast majority of the fatalities.”
Have you ever wondered why? Consider the origins and implications of poverty, limited access to healthcare and food deserts just to get you started. Simply saying that poor people are less healthy doesn’t tell the story… why are they poor, how are they treated when they do seek healthcare… Can they afford treatment even if they do happen to see a doctor and be taken seriously when they do? That’s just financial. Wealthy Black people also don’t receive the same level of treatment that White people do. Same money, same access, different treatment.
“–Black are more likely not to follow social distancing guidelines, and in fairness it’s harder to do so if you’re in the inner city for instance.”
I call B.S. on this one. Where I live tons of people are ignoring the guidelines and talking all kinds of righteous rhetoric about governors violating constitutional rights with stay-at-home orders. 20 White kids gather in a rural/suburban high school parking lot and nobody notices because the school is gigantic and the lot is back off the main road. Meanwhile, a dozen kids play basketball in an urban park and it makes national news because it’s in plain view. I do agree that it’s harder to follow guidelines when your low-wage job interfacing with the public is deemed essential while others can “work” from home or collect unemployment +$600/week.
Covid-19’s disproportionate impact is just one more example of this country’s legacy of racism at work. The virus isn’t racist (though it’s mechanism of action isn’t fully understood, I’m very confident that the virus isn’t selecting for melanin content). Our society was and is racist and that’s the origin story of every thought you’ve listed. We cannot “social justice” our way into a better outcome for this pandemic. But, if you continue persuading others to downplay the part racism plays, you’re actively working to guarantee the next outbreak will yield the same result.
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“Here it’s all about WHITE RACISM–Chinese disease is whitey’s fault–blame whitey and try to guilt whitey into solving your problems….”
Hilarious!
I haven’t seen or heard a Black person use the term “whitey” in over half a century. The only people who use that term are Euro-American bigots.
Biff used it three times in one sentence. Go figure.
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Over half a century? Over 30 years maybe.. but not half a century, see for example:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfozL1Ea_Co)
And no, it’s not really a serious descriptive term–it’s meant to show ridiculousness.
Open minded observer, you said, “food deserts”, but I think you meant “desserts”, as it’s obesity that is probably the biggest underlying health condition in play.
People of all colors make more money in the cities, but NAMs to something special to a city center and you’d think it’s like that everywhere if you live in the States, but then you go to China, Japan or Korea and you realize there are no “inner cities” there–prices just go up the closer you get to the city centers and there’s very little crime–most of Europe used to be that way before it became so vibrant.
I’m sure there are people ignoring the no gathering orders everywhere, but don’t make it seem like it’s just some poor gentlemen shooting some hoops who didn’t do nothing wrong. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8169339/Shocking-moment-huge-line-police-officers-forced-disperse-girls-birthday-party-LA.html
MB, the place in northern Italy that got hit very hard was dry and not too warm. Relative humidity is the key.
Anyway, although it’s terrible for people who get it (those with symptoms at least–maybe 80%+ don’t show symptoms as testing in various places is beginning to show), the current estimated mortality for this round of COVID19 is now somewhere around 60K, after being revised downward many times, or around what a bad flu season would produce. Hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed and many are actually sitting mostly empty as other medical procedures are delayed–COVID19 hospitalization rates have been around 25% of what was predicted and are going down now–even in NYC…
Let’s be thankful for all that and think about how we can move past this and get the low risk population back to work ASAP. That will actually benefit minorities the most, as they are the ones least likely to have job security. To hope for the worst, and the death of hundreds of thousands or millions of your countrymen, just to replace Trump with an obviously inept and corrupt Biden on the take from China is just sick.
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@ biff
“And no, it’s not really a serious descriptive term–it’s meant to show ridiculousness.”
Which is why it’s insulting. This is how you used it:
“Chinese disease is whitey’s fault–blame whitey and try to guilt whitey into solving your problems”
No one here said any of that. And you could make your false claim in more straightforward language (e.g., “you all are blaming white people”) but that wouldn’t contain the mockery of the “whitey” phrasing which you find so satisfying.
“To hope for the worst, and the death of hundreds of thousands or millions of your countrymen, just to replace Trump with an obviously inept and corrupt Biden on the take from China is just sick.”
Again, no one here said that. Why don’t you go find a website where commenters are actually expressing that opinion and educate them?
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@Biff
re: Your flippant comment on deserts and desserts. Lack of “big box” grocery stores with affordable healthy food options, combined with low wages, leads to poor nutrition, eating available fast foods and other cheap, high carb, high fat, foods. So, I wrote deserts because I meant deserts. Obesity is a problem for all of us. The likelihood is made worse by food deserts.
“I’m sure there are people ignoring the no gathering orders everywhere, but don’t make it seem like it’s just some poor gentlemen shooting some hoops who didn’t do nothing wrong.”
You misunderstood. I never meant to imply they did nothing wrong. I meant to imply the first part of your statement, that there are people ignoring the rules everywhere. Your original statement implied that it happened more in urban populations and I simply tried to point out that perhaps your perception was biased. There are parties, golf outings, memorials and bonfires happening in the suburbs too.
You are lucky if the hospitals and staff are not overwhelmed where you are. You must be unaware of how many nurses and staff are being “redeployed” into new types of care that they were never trained for, in sections of hospitals that weren’t designed to be ICUs, charting on systems they’ve never learned and working forced overtime under threats of losing their licenses for patient abandonment. Those things are real and happening because hospitals are overwhelmed. Remove social distabcing and increase the patient-load exponentially and they’d simply be triaging lines of patients to treat anyone that statistically had a chance of survival. Like Italy.
The flu kills (insert you favorite statistic here) every year WITHOUT social distancing and stay at home orders. Covid-19 may be equally or more deadly WITH social distancing and stay at home orders. The models keep lowering the mortality predictions because people are distancing. If you believe the Covid-19 deaths would be statistically similar, and still comparable with flu, if we had gone about life as usual, then… well.. you’re just wrong.
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A comedy show that had a huge Euro-American audience because they skewered other Black people (a la The Five Rules of Racial Standing) on an 1980s minstrel show is your response. The Wayans brothers often acted as Black proxies for White stereotypes and sentiments.
Typical for a Euro-American bigot.
What’s next? An Amos and Andy clip? Euro-American bigots just love, love, love that show too.
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“In Living Color” was not a documentary. US television both underrepresents and misrepresents Black people. Even BET does it.
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@ blakksage
*”…the demographics weren’t being reported as to who was more prone to being affected and die from this illness… at that time was intentionally done so by the corporate media in order to refrain from … stigmatizing Caucasians as a group.
However, on or about April 7th, 2020, (give or take a few days), a different face was being splashed across the television screens across Amerika and globally for that matter. Now, so-called African Americans were being ushered in as the poster children for Covid-19.
For the most part, officials and non-officials were saying things like: Since African Americans as a group are more prone to underlying health condition such as diabetes, asthma and high blood pressure, just to name a few, well then, these condition were utilized as a pretext to explain or justify the SUPPOSED Covid-19 deaths in minority communities. (yeah, .. right)”*
The net result of Negroizing COVID-19 is that White people have relaxed and become complacent about the virus. Like Open Minded Observer, I see groups of White teens and Millennials playing sports and boozing it up outdoors because in their minds they are not the “target demographic”. They have mentally checked these boxes:
✔︎ not over sixty.
✔︎ no underlying chronic health conditions—yet.
✔︎ not Asian.
✔︎ not Black.
Further, since COVID-19 is now a “Black” disease, it is yet another opportunity for smug White bigots to mock and criticize low and moderate income Black people. In effect, blaming Black people for their own deaths because they are “prone” to chronic conditions, etc.
Dr. Anthony Fauci skated very close to this narrative in the press conference where he described the high mortality rate among “the African Americans”.
A very familiar pattern. We are all Trayvon Martin.
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Afrofem said: “We are all Trayvon Martin.”
Facts:
At the time of the altercation with Zimmerman (the so called “white hispanic”, who obviously has some black ancestry himself, in addition to hispanic), Trayvon had been suspended from school — not the first time — for ten days after being caught in possession of burglary tools and jewelry stolen from a break-in near his school. THC — the active ingredient in marijuana — was in his bloodstream and shortly before meeting Zimmerman, he had purchased blunts, cheap cigars used in smoking pot. He often expressed a preference for them on social media. He was also carrying two of the three ingredients, one of them Skittles, for a dangerous drug concoction his social media messages reveal he favored. He was not carrying — as has been wrongly reported — iced tea. Zimmerman, the local neighborhood watch captain and well-respected in that role by the Sanford Police Department, began to watch Martin because he appeared to be casing homes by remaining outside while it was raining and walking on the grass, not the sidewalks, of homes that had been recently burglarized.
Trayvon was a violent, drug using criminal–a reprehensible individual, regardless of race. If most blacks choose to identify with him, despite that and just because of his skin color, I have no sympathy for them.
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well i remember ‘in living color’, it was on at the right times somehow, it was like a racially integrated update of SNL, it could be a bit much but the live audience, memba when arsenio hall was on after and the crowd would go making the arsenio hall sound and you know the fist thing, it was our generation (X), man!
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Look at Biff completely ignoring all the valid criticism of his remarks and instead latching onto the Trayvon Martin reference in the hopes of derailing the thread.
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@ Solitaire
Aye, noted.
snicker
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@Biff
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@Michael Barker
Comment deleted due to moderated language.
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@ gro jo #2
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52321529
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i have a bicycle now its somewhere between soviet and mine
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[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/04/11/the-coronavirus-and-black-americans/ […]
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Just came across an essay on The Atlantic with the provocative title, “Stop Blaming Black People for Dying of the Coronavirus”. The author, Ibram X. Kendi explores many of the blame games and guilt trips that Black and White officials heap on ordinary, workaday Black people.
Kendi counters the theories of Black people’s culpability for their own deaths with several observations, among them:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/race-and-blame/609946/
Seems like a replay of “drapetomania”. Only this time Black people are suicidally insane and wilfully rushing headlong into death by COVID-19.
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No discussion yet on this particular post regarding the treatment of black Americans in Mainland China during the coronavirus pandemic?
US State Department Travel Warning to Black Americans:
Event: Discrimination against African-Americans in Guangzhou
(https://china.usembassy-china.org.cn/health-alert-u-s-consulate-general-guangzhou-peoples-republic-of-china/)
‘No blacks’: Evicted, harassed and targeted in China for their race amid coronavirus
(https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-16/china-coronavirus-black-african-evictions)
White Americans have been given orders directly from the Guangzhou government to proactively discriminate against black Americans.Luckily white Americans know better.
.
I have had some vivacious conversations with residents on the Mainland pontificating to me about how “China” is not racist at all, unlike the US, which is deeply racist and discriminatory. I explain that the PRC is perhaps the most racist country I have ever been to. I would even say that it is much worse than Japan.
Taiwan is zillion times better in this regard. You will even find black Americans who have become full-fledged Taiwanese (ie, ROC) citizens.
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” on Fri Apr 17th 2020 at 20:52:28
v8driver
@ gro jo #2
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52321529”
Such revisions are to be expected. I pointed out that fact to Origin on 4/6/2020.
” on Mon Apr 6th 2020 at 21:06:25
gro jo
Origin, thanks for the laugh… It will be years before the real toll of this outbreak will be known for any nation on earth with any kind of great precision.”
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jefe’s back! Where the hell were you? It’s touching to see the US embassy showing concern for black Americans. Better late than never.
“Taiwan is zillion times better in this regard. You will even find black Americans who have become full-fledged Taiwanese (ie, ROC) citizens.”
Evidence, please. Your words don’t count for much in my book. While you’re at it can you name a contribution made by ROC that even comes close to those made by the PRC in the struggle against racism such as:
1)” The TAZARA Railway, also called the Uhuru Railway or the Tanzam Railway, is a railway in East Africa linking the port of Dar es Salaam in east Tanzania with the town of Kapiri Mposhi in Zambia’s Central Province. The single-track railway is 1,860 km (1,160 mi) long and is operated by the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA).
The governments of Tanzania, Zambia and China built the railway to eliminate landlocked Zambia’s economic dependence on Rhodesia and South Africa, both of which were ruled by white-minority governments.[1] The railway provided the only route for bulk trade from Zambia’s Copperbelt to reach the sea without having to transit white-ruled territories. The spirit of Pan-African socialism among the leaders of Tanzania and Zambia and the symbolism of China’s support for newly independent African countries gave rise to TAZARA’s designation as the “Great Uhuru Railway”, Uhuru being the Swahili word for Freedom.”
2) Backing the Bandung Conference in 1955.
To name just two. Now dazzle me with the ROC’s record in this field. If my memory isn’t faulty, the ROC had diplomatic ties with the Apartheid regime until its end. It must have stuck in the craw of these ‘great’ anti-racists to accept “honorary white” status. Either that or you are lying as usual. You already know on which side of that dilemma I come down on.
Having dismissed nonsense 1001 from you, I’d like your opinion on the recent wave of repression against people associated with the HK riots. How extensive has it been and why the silence from the western media that championed them?
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“While you’re at it can you name a contribution made by ROC that even comes close to those made by the PRC in the struggle against racism such as:… ”
Wait. So the PRC’s Imperialism in Africa is proof to you of China’s anti rascist contributions as their part in blacks “struggles against racism” ?
Whatever it is your smoking i want some.
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Mike, I’m ‘smoking’ history, what are you on? “PRC’s Imperialism” you say, please break it down for me? How did it work in the case of TAZARA? Give me facts not how you feel or wild speculations. Tell me if PRC representatives were made “honorary whites” by the Apartheid and Rhodesian regimes as their Taiwanese cousins where?
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“Taiwanese cousins where(sic)” should be “Taiwanese cousins were”
Freeing Zambia from economic dependence on the racist or “rascist(sic)” states allowed it to sponsor the guerilla war against Rhodesia.If that’s not contributing to the struggle against racism, nothing is.
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Imperialism 101: Build roads to move raw materials from “host countries” to primary “partnership” country.
China’s 50 billion dollar investment in infastructure and industry insures that the resources China needs for expansion are met as well as providing affordable products that China’s workers can afford to purchase.
China is looking for a cheap labor force to exploit the same way multi national corporations exploited Chinese labor.
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Mike, please avoid broad generalizations like your answer that confuses the PRC 2020 with the PRC circa 1967-1975.
The following is a long excerpt that blows your nonsense with facts. Ignorance never helped anyone. If you’re going to argue with me make sure you have your facts in place:
“Origins of the project
In the late 19th century, Cecil Rhodes envisioned a railway from British Rhodesia to Tanganyika (then German East Africa) to carry copper ore.[2] After World War I, Tanganyika was handed over to the United Kingdom for administration as a League of Nations Mandate, and British colonial authorities again explored the idea.[2] Still, from the outset, the Western powers refused to construct the Tanzam railway because it would have been unprofitable for Western imperialist investors.[23]
TAZARA train station in Ifakara
Following World War II, interest in railway construction revived.[2] A map from April 1949 in the Railway Gazette showed a proposed line from Dar es Salaam to Kapiri Mposhi, not far from the route that would eventually be taken by the Chinese railway.[24] A report in 1952 by Sir Alexander Gibb & Partners concluded that the Northern Rhodesia-Tanganyika railway was not economically justified, due to the low level of agricultural development and the fact that existing railways through Mozambique and Angola were adequate for carrying copper exports.[25] A World Bank report in 1964 projected that only 87,000 tons of cargo would be carried between Zambia and Tanzania by the year 2000, not enough to support a railway, and recommended that a road be built instead.[26]:43
In 1961, Tanganyika became independent under the leadership of Julius Nyerere, and in 1964 the country joined with Zanzibar to form the United Republic of Tanzania. Also in 1964, Northern Rhodesia was granted independence as Zambia, under the leadership of Kenneth Kaunda. Both Nyerere and Kaunda were charismatic socialist African leaders who supported the self-determination of their African neighbors.[2] A railway connecting their two countries would help to develop the agricultural regions of southwestern Tanzania and northeastern Zambia.[27]
Attempts to secure funding
Nyerere and Kaunda pursued different avenues for the construction of a rail route. When Nyerere visited Beijing in February 1965, he was hesitant to raise the issue of the railway out of concern that China was also a poor country. President Liu Shaoqi offered to assist Tanzania and Zambia in building a railway between the two countries.[3][28] Chairman Mao Zedong told Nyerere, “You have difficulties as do we, but our difficulties are different. To help you build the railway, we are willing to forsake building railways for ourselves.”[3] Chinese leaders assured Nyerere that Tanzania and Zambia would have full ownership of the completed railway, along with transferred technology and equipment.[28] Nyerere did not immediately accept the Chinese offer but sought to use it to induce Western backing for the railway, but none was forthcoming.[29] He did, however, accept a team of Chinese surveyors, who produced a short report in October 1966.
Kaunda was wary of Communist involvement and wanted to maintain friendly ties with Britain. He turned down an offer from the Chinese Embassy in Lusaka to build the railway. In addition, Zambia and Rhodesia were joint owners of the Zambian Railway, and the joint ownership agreement would penalize Zambia for diverting traffic to other railways. A Canadian-British aerial survey was commissioned, concluding in a July 1966 report that the line was “feasible and economic” based on a predicted 2.5 million tons of traffic, with an estimated construction cost of £126 million ($353 million). Western funding was not, however, forthcoming,[30] as Britain, Japan, West Germany, World Bank, the United States and United Nations all declined to fund the project.[2][31] The Soviet Union was also uninterested.[31]
Chinese support
The TAZARA station at Makambako.
At the time, China was actively seeking diplomatic support in the Third World against the United States and Soviet Union. Trade Minister Abdulrahman Mohamed Babu and other ministers from Zanzibar were instrumental in lobbying Chinese leaders for support and then persuading Nyerere to accept the assistance.[32] British prime minister Harold Wilson, after seeing Tanzania’s pro-China attitude at the 1965 Commonwealth Prime Ministers’ Conference, claimed that many of Nyerere’s ministers were “directly in the Chinese pay.”[33] Canadian prime minister Lester Pearson also questioned whether Nyerere should get so close to the Chinese.[34]
Nyerere later complained that Western nations opposed the Chinese plans for the railway, but did not offer him any alternative.[35]
In November 1965, Southern Rhodesia’s white-led colonial government issued its Unilateral Declaration of Independence from Britain, threatening Zambia’s access to the sea. In the first months after UDI, supplies had to be airlifted to Zambia or transported 1,600 km (1,000 mi) by road.[36] Nyerere warned Humphry John Berkeley, a British politician who served as the economic consultant for the Canadian-British survey team, that “The West must hurry, because the Chinese are going ahead.” Yet, when Berkeley met with Harold Wilson, the British prime minister assured him that “The Chinese have not got the money to build the railway.”[37]
Finally, Kaunda dropped his objections and accepted the Chinese offer while visiting China in January 1967.[38][39] On 6 September 1967, an agreement was signed in Beijing by the three nations. China committed itself to building a railway between Tanzania and Zambia, supplying an interest-free loan of RMB988 million (approx. US$ 406 million) to be repaid between 1973 and 2013.[3][4]
The West reacted to Chinese backing for the project with both derision and alarm. Critics questioned the construction quality and competence of the Chinese, calling the TAZARA the “bamboo railway”.[31] The Wall Street Journal stated in 1967, “the prospects of hundreds and perhaps thousands of Red Guards descending upon an already troubled Africa is a chilling one for the West.”[40] The United States funded the Tan-Zam Highway, which was built from 1968 to 1973, to compete with the railway.[41] As the projects proceeded in parallel, Chinese and American workers clashed at the Great Ruaha River bridge in 1970.[42]
Construction
Mbeya station on the Tazara Railway
Before the railway construction began, 12 Chinese surveyors traveled for nine months on foot from Dar es Salaam to Mbeya in the Southern Highlands to choose and align the railway’s path. Chinese workers had already begun arriving in 1969, and construction began in July 1970.[4] A formal inauguration ceremony was held on 26 October 1970, where the band played Sailing the Seas Depends on the Helmsman and marchers held signs saying, “The Uhuru line will fight Imperialism”.[43]
Chinese assistance was provided in large part by the Railway Engineering Corps of the People’s Liberation Army (predecessor of China Railway Construction Corporation) and the foreign aid department of the Ministry of Railways (predecessor of China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation).[44] Chinese personnel sent to Africa were selected for political dependability, moral probity, technical expertise and personal fitness, and underwent as long as two months of training.[45] Chinese assistance followed the country’s socialist ethos, a labor-intensive model instead of the Western capital-intensive model.[46]
In total, China sent about 50,000 personnel to work on the railway from 1965 to 1976, including 30,000 to 40,000 workers.[47] An estimated 60,000 Africans participated in the railway’s construction.[47] At the height of construction in 1972, there were 13,500 Chinese and 38,000 African workers on the project.[48] Chinese engineers lived and worked according to the same standards as their African counterparts.[2][46] Construction camps were set up for each 64-kilometre (40 mi) section of track, being relocated as the work progressed. Papaya and banana trees were grown to provide shade and food, and workers tended vegetable gardens in the camps in off-hours.[49]
The work involved moving 330,000 tons of rail and 89 million cubic meters of earth and rock, and the construction of 93 stations, 320 bridges, 22 tunnels and 2,225 culverts.[45][50] Virtually all building materials, equipment and significant amounts of food and medical supplies were shipped from China.[45] Braving rain, sun and wind, the workers laid the track through some of Africa’s wildest and most rugged landscapes. One Chinese worker recalled that his team was trapped in the wilderness for a week after floods and landslides washed away the only connecting road.[45] “We lived in fear of lions and hyenas.” [45] Over 160 workers, including 64 Chinese nationals, died in construction accidents.[50]
The Mpanga River Bridge and tunnel.
The section from Mlimba to Makambako crosses mountains and steep valleys. Almost 30 percent of the bridges, tunnels, viaducts, and earthworks of the entire route are located a 16-kilometre (10 mi) stretch of this section. The bridge across the Mpanga River is 49 metres (160 ft) in height, and the Irangi Number 3 Tunnel is 2.4 km (1 1⁄2 mi) long. After the work crews reached Zambia at the end of 1972, the terrain became much easier, and the track-laying machine could advance 3 km (2 mi) per day[51]
The project pressed forward despite the enormous upheaval in China caused by the Cultural Revolution, during which most domestic railway projects were delayed as many government officials were purged. President Liu Shaoqi, who had made the offer to President Nyerere in 1965, was removed from power in 1966, publicly vilified and died in 1969. In Tanzania, Abdulrahman Mohamed Babu, who had persuaded the Chinese to back the TAZARA, was sentenced to death in 1972 for allegedly plotting to overthrow the Zanzibar government. He was pardoned by Nyerere in 1978.
The first passenger train arrived in Dar es Salaam on 24 October 1975,[52] the 11th anniversary of Zambia’s independence from Great Britain.
Initial difficulties
The TAZARA has been a major economic conduit in the region notwithstanding operating difficulties from the start and never reaching its design capacity of 5 million metric tons. In the first two years of operation, TAZARA carried over 1.1 million metric tons of cargo annually. The diesel hydraulic locomotives sent by the Chinese were insufficiently powerful to haul heavy loads up the steep escarpment between Mlimba and Makambako, limiting the line’s carrying capacity.[31] When the Chinese rolling stock broke down, there was limited local capacity for repair.[31] By 1978, 19 to 27 of the locomotives were out of operation, as were half of the rail cars.[53]
The new Kapiri Mposhi Station in 2009
The railway was also beset with staff difficulties. In their haste to complete the railway, the Chinese did not train enough African technicians to take over management of the railway.[31] In 1972, two hundred Tanzanian and Zambian students were enrolled in the Northern Jiaotong University in Beijing to learn railway management, but a dozen of them were expelled in the first year for misbehavior.[26]:99 Employee theft was so common that 20 Zambian crew members were fired in 1978 for stealing, drivers were brought back from China for a return run, and hundreds of other Chinese advisers had their stay extended.[53] These problems resulted in much lengthier than planned turnaround times for freight, and in 1978 Zambia had to break ranks and reopen links with white-ruled Rhodesia for its copper exports.[54]
TAZARA played an important role in the black nationalist struggles of the late 1970s and 1980s. The railway served as a trade route for Zambia, Zimbabwe, and Malawi that did not pass through apartheid South Africa, or Angola or Mozambique, which were embroiled in civil wars with South African-backed proxies.[19] During Zimbabwe’s struggle for independence, the white Rhodesian government targeted ZIPRA’s supply lines from Tanzania.[55] Rhodesian forces also attacked and destroyed three bridges; the Chambeshi River Bridge was blown up by the Selous Scouts in 1979 and required one year to reconstruct.[56][19] As a result of these difficulties, cargo transport fell below 800,000 tons per annum from 1979/80 to 1982/83. In addition, landslides and washouts frequently disrupted service, especially during the rainy seasons of 1979 and 1985/86.[31][56]
Foreign Support in the 1980s
The interior of the New Kapiri Mposhi Station in October 2012.
In 1983, Tanzania and Zambia invited the Chinese back to help manage the railway.[57] About 250 Chinese managers were assigned to railway bureaus along the route.[57] They brought operational profitability to the railway and paid for their expenses through revenues, but China had to issue additional zero-interest loans to pay for spare parts and rehabilitation. [57] From 1987 to 1993, foreign aid totaling $150 million was supplied by the European Economic Community, Austria, Denmark, Finland, France, West Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland.[58]
In 1987, the United States also joined in the donor efforts to improve the TAZARA and reduce the dependency of “frontline states” on South Africa.[59][56][60] A 1987 report commissioned for the USAID identified inadequate motive power and poor equipment maintenance as constraints to operational capacity.[59] The report found TAZARA mechanics to be poorly trained and supervised, many being illiterate, and faced with the need to maintain a diverse set of equipment from different donor countries.[59] The USAID then funded a $50 million program over seven years, providing locomotives, facilities, and training.[56] Equipment repairs would only “reduce some short-range problems”, and the report highlighted the need to address “underlying causes”, such as the locomotive workshops lacking basic supplies, and less than 20% of employees at the locomotive workshops being engaged in actual work.[59]
Thanks to support from foreign donors, the cargo transported annually by TAZARA increased from 1.0 to 1.9 million metric tons in 1986 to 1991. The locomotive availability rate rose from 46% to 65%, and wagon turnaround time was reduced from 35 days to 20 days.[56] Passenger traffic on the railway rebounded from 564,000 in the FY1982/83 to 1.6 million in FY1990/91.[56][19][31] Local goods accounted for nearly half of the cargo shipped on the line between 1985 and 1988.[31]
Decline
Abandoned rolling stock
along the TAZARA
Photos taken in Oct. 2012
In the 1990s, the economic performance of the railway began to decline with changes to the broader economic and political environment. With the independence of Namibia in 1990 and multiracial elections in South Africa in 1994, southern Africa was no longer dominated by white minority governments, and Zambian copper had more economic outlets to the south and east. Road transport provided competition in the form of the Trans–Caprivi Highway and the Walvis Bay Corridor to Namibia.
The privatization of Zambia’s copper mines forced railways in Zambia to compete for previously-guaranteed government cargo.[61] Traffic on Zambian Railways fell from 6 million tonnes in 1975 to 690,000 tonnes in 2009. TAZARA suffered an even greater drop in traffic.
In the early 2000s, the end of civil wars in Angola and Mozambique opened further rail outlets for Zambian copper.[62][63] In 2008, the railway’s condition was described as being “on the verge of collapse due to financial crisis,” and dangerous track conditions were discovered by Chinese technicians inspecting the line.[64] The company’s cash flow difficulties have led to delays in paying salaries, resulting in frequent strikes by the workforce.[65] By 2012, TAZARA had only 10 operational main line locomotives.[66] In September 2013, the TAZARA was reporting $1.53 million in monthly revenue against $2.5 million in monthly expenditures.[11] “
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What “immoderate” sin have I committed now?
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Mike, how many times did you have to repeat Imperialism 101? My reply to you is in “moderation”, when it comes out of moderation purgatory I hope it will help you see the error of your way of arguing without facts.
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Chinese labor was cheap when they financed and built the railroad. You are making an anachronistic claim.
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“Taiwan is zillion times better in this regard. You will even find black Americans who have become full-fledged Taiwanese (ie, ROC) citizens.”
I recall a long argument with Kiwi over a singer named Lou Jing. Did the PRC deprive her of her citizenship or is this another jefe lie?
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Will the Trump water carrying Surgeon General lecture white folks about alcohol and drug consulting and other comorbidities? They too have underlying health issues.
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When the media was flooded with talk about the virus affecting Black Americans, now the government wants to open up the country. Black Americans are expendable.
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Gro jo, are you still trotting out your ancient Chinese history to prove the PRC are non-racist toward the African Diaspora?
The era of the “Great Uhuru Railway” and the Bandung Conference of 1955 is long gone. Both events prove nothing about the officially sanctioned anti-Blackness in todays PRC .
Relevance?
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@ gro jo
“Zimbabwe” is moderated because most people who like to talk about it are trolls.
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@ Mary Burrell
How are you holding up in Texas?
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Grojo.
Thanks for the history lesson.
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/takeover-trap-why-imperialist-china-invading-africa-66421
(“National Interest” bias is center to right but rated high for factual reporting.)
On one hand some Africans may benift from China’s “investments”. On the other hand ownership and control remains firmly in China’s grasp.
I don’t want to derail this thread with this topic too much. The CCP may talk anti racist talk but in practice the actions of some State institutions and individuals are indeed racist.
Just like in the U.S.
I can’t speak about racism in Taiwan. But I do know that many within different Asian populations absorb the racial biases they learn from whites.
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“The era of the “Great Uhuru Railway” and the Bandung Conference of 1955 is long gone. Both events prove nothing about the officially sanctioned anti-Blackness in todays PRC .
Relevance?”
Hilarious, coming from you a person who didn’t know that HK SAR is self administered and therefore pays nothing to the PRC! Your pal jefe wanted to ‘prove’ that the ROC was less racist than the PRC. I proposed that he show evidence of that anti-racism by looking at the history of both governments with regard to the white minority regimes in southern Africa.
At a time when the PRC was a poor nation they made “an interest-free loan of RMB988 million (approx. US$ 406 million) to be repaid between 1973 and 2013.[3][4] ” to help Zambia, Tanzania and the liberation movement, at least that part of it that they backed, to destroy Rhodesia. What did you or your nation contribute?
They lost 64 of their compatriots and “… lived and worked according to the same standards as their African counterparts.[2][46]” Imagine that?
Relevance? Well, they are the biggest contributors to development of Africa today. Ethiopia’s railway attests to that fact.
I know that such facts make not the slightest impression on you, since you prefer jefe’s lies, no doubt out of ‘patriotic’ zeal. African Americans have a long, inglorious history of shilling for the powers that be in the USA, so it is sad, but not surprising, that you and others on this blog continue that tradition.
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Mike, your source is a joke. This is the same bs the US and its allies were writing about the PRC in 1966. The lack of originality is kind of funny.
After refusing to help, they raise all kinds of absurd objections, when the project goes forward without them they malign the participants and propose projects of their own to create trouble.
”
nytimes.com
American and Red Chinese Workers Reported to Have Clashed in Tanzania
By Charles Mohr Special to The New York Times
4-5 minutes
Credit…The New York Times Archives
See the article in its original context from
March 26, 1970, Page 15Buy Reprints
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This is a digitized version of an article from The Times’s print archive, before the start of online publication in 1996. To preserve these articles as they originally appeared, The Times does not alter, edit or update them.
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DAR ES SALAAM. Tanzania, March 25—Chinese Communist railway surveyors threatened and surrounded a group of American highway builders in southwestern Tanzania earlier this month and held them pris oner for nine hours, witnesses report.
The Americans were employes of the Nello L. Teer Construction Company of Dur ham, N. C., which is building 145‐mile stretch of paved high way from the Zambian border through the thickly forested hills and marshy plains of southwestern Tanzania.
The Chinese were part of a large contingent of workers surveying and doing preparatory work on the proposed 11,100‐mile Tan‐Zam railway, which China has promised to build from the copper fields of Zambia to Dar es Salaam, thus freeing Zambia from dependence on transportation routes through the white minority states of southern Africa.
The Tanzanian Government has apparently used deft but extremely quiet diplomacy to soothe ruffled feelings growing out of the incidents. No public mention of the affairs has been made in the local press.
The American‐Chinese confrontation took place on March 3, 500 miles southwest of Dar es Salaam and 50 miles east, of the town of Mbeya. All work on the American‐built road stopped for four days, from March 5 to March 9, because of fear that the approximately 50 American workers in the area might be attacked by their Chinese neighbors, but work has since resumed.
Some sources said that there were reports that the Chinese Embassy had sent three men men back to China because of their role in the incident, but the report could not be con firmed.
Witnesses said the incident began in the late morning as two Americans prepared to bulldoze a site so a pile driver could begin work on bridge over the swiftly flowing Great Ruaha River.
A group of Chinese arrived and planted a small pennant, which may have been a survey marker, in the bulldozer’s path and in the middle of the American survey trace, the witnesses said.
An American engineer at tempted to show the Chinese the highway plans, which were officially approved by Tanzania last year, and finally offered to suspend work until the Chinese could take mathematical references of their flag so that it could be replaced after the bulldozer finished work. However, the witnesses said, the Chinese—in conversations marked by mutual unintelligibility and growing anger —refused.
At this point another American mounted the bulldozer and drove it toward the Chinese flag to knock it down. Two Chinese threw themselves in front of the bulldozer, which the driver stopped.
He was hauled off the ma chine and marched with his arms twisted behind his back to his Land‐Rover and told to stay there, an American wit ness said.
During the day other Americans arrived on errands along the road, stopped and became involved until a total of seven were at the scene. Increasing numbers of Chinese also ar rived until there were between 80 to 100.
At one point the Chinese crowded the Americans so closely they were forced to climb into the back of a pickup truck, where they sat for several hours, surrounded by glaring, stone‐carrying Chinese.
A Tanzanian Army officer finally led the Americans to safety well after dark.”
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Somehow I don’t think African Americans or other black people in China who are being refused service or evicted because of their race are going to give a toss about a railroad built over 60 years ago. It sure doesn’t solve or excuse the racism they’re facing right this second.
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If the railroad wasn’t built 40 years ago many of them wouldn’t be here to give a toss. White liberalism is all about ‘hurt’ feelings. A number of the Africans saw the education and health care system in their nations degraded by “Structural Adjustment” programs imposed on them by the same white liberal regimes so concerned about their ‘racist’ treatment. These programs came on top of centuries of forced labor. No matter how ‘racist’ the Chinese may be, not one of you can claim that if these things did happen, that it was official policy. You should spend more time figuring out how to prevent your kinfolks from robbing and killing Africans. China and Africa can handle any disagreements they have bilaterally. Are you better positioned to champion Africans in China than their embassies, I think not? Criminals always want to ‘forget’ the past and live in an eternal “now”. I wonder why?
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“China and Africa can handle any disagreements they have bilaterally”
And that helps the African Americans experiencing discrimination in China how, exactly?
“not one of you can claim that if these things did happen, that it was official policy.”
From the article that was quoted above:
“Matthew Scott, a white American from New Jersey who owns a pizza restaurant in Guangzhou, said his staff had received calls from the district-level local government, telling them to forbid foreigners from eating in restaurants, “especially black people.” Scott told his staff to ignore the orders.”
Sounds like it was official policy at least at the level of local government.
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@ Gro Jo
“A number of the Africans saw the education and health care system in their nations degraded by “Structural Adjustment” programs imposed on them by the same white liberal regimes so concerned about their ‘racist’ treatment. These programs came on top of centuries of forced labor.”
So you’ve already forgotten about this exchange?
gro jo on Mon Apr 13th 2020 at 16:51:44
“Foreign devils” whose governments won’t defend them make easy targets, citizens from nations with track records of defending their citizens, as documented in Buford’s book don’t experience such things. To you, racism is a ‘feeling’ you disapprove of, to me it’s a power relationship, first and foremost. Hence, weak governments enable racism against their nationals.
Solitaire on Wed Apr 15th 2020 at 12:56:55
“weak governments enable racism against their nationals.”
Seems to me that racism has a lot to do with why those governments are weak.
gro jo on Wed Apr 15th 2020 at 15:24:17
Only because you prioritize opinions over facts.
Solitaire on Wed Apr 15th 2020 at 16:15:02
I’m not in the mood to argue this in depth. I’m just going to say that the history of Europeans inflicting slavery, conquest, colonization, and discrimination on Africans is fact, not opinion, as is the interference by the CIA and others that destabilized many early African governments after the end of the white supremacist colonial rule, as is the ongoing looting of African natural resources and money by the IMF, France, etc.
🤔🤔🤔
Did you seriously think I wasn’t going to notice that you just took my own argument directly from the last paragraph above? I thought you played this game at a higher level than that.
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“And that helps the African Americans experiencing discrimination in China how, exactly?”
Oh please, don’t be dense. What is it with you women, you start out smart as a whip, fall under the sway of jefe and start talking nonsense? You know that I wasn’t addressing the plight of African Americans. I did that in the following comment to jefe: “jefe’s back! Where the hell were you? It’s touching to see the US embassy showing concern for black Americans. Better late than never.” Note that I consistently maintain that the embassies should do their duties on behalf of their nationals.
““Matthew Scott, a white American from New Jersey who owns a pizza restaurant in Guangzhou, said his staff had received calls from the district-level local government, telling them to forbid foreigners from eating in restaurants, “especially black people.” Scott told his staff to ignore the orders.”
Sounds like it was official policy at least at the level of local government.”
My dear Solitaire are you on ‘stupid pills’? The PRC has laws just like the USA. Assuming that this story isn’t bs, do you really believe that some unnamed bureaucrat with Negrophobic tendencies is the law in China? Being a southern gal, you ought to know that practice and the law is not the same thing. Am I the only one who remembers the legal struggles over “separate but equal”? Shame on you for abasing yourself in this manner.
You are letting your emotions get the better of you. This song should be your motto: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbtf9DezqU)
ENJOY.
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“Did you seriously think I wasn’t going to notice that you just took my own argument directly from the last paragraph above? I thought you played this game at a higher level than that.”
I do but being emotional, you imagine that I was objecting to your statement of facts. No, I was objecting to your claim that ‘racism’ came before subjugation, I believe it is the other way around. Case in point is Portuguese colonialism in southern Africa. Portugal was a partner of the Kongo kingdom elite, the kings of both nations referred to each other as ‘brother’, and the Kongo maintained diplomatic relations with the Vatican. Three centuries elapsed before the Portuguese would be the undisputed masters over the former inhabitants of the Kongo. My point remains as valid as ever: Weakness leads to subjugation and racist contempt grows in that manure.
No, I did not take your argument, you confused yours with mine. Are we clear on what we disagree on?
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Well Grojo just because I am criticizing China’s Imperialism doesn’t mean that I support U.S. Imperialism.
The article I posted spoke about China’s pollution in the Sudan. Of course American companies do the same thing in Nigeria.
The article was biased in favor of U.S. foreign policy but that doesn’t take away from China’s dealings on the continent.
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Ah, Gro Jo, back to the personal attacks again. It’s not only me, either — just look at that bull [moderated word] you spouted off about Origin’s father on the other thread.
No, I’m not going to get emotional, but I’m sure you were hoping I would. What, did you expect I would dissolve into a flood of tears because, omg, I have two x chromosomes?! LOL
“Weakness leads to subjugation and racist contempt grows in that manure.”
Right, once again blaming the victim. You will throw anyone under the bus in your zeal to defend the CCP.
“I do but being emotional, you imagine that I was objecting to your statement of facts”
Oh, bull [moderated word]. You were obviously trying to discredit and disparage me. Remember this: “Criminals always want to ‘forget’ the past and live in an eternal “now”. I wonder why?” But you forgot I’d actually and recently brought up that very past to you.
My, my, aren’t you fickle and mercurial in your emotions:
“gro jo on Sun Mar 15th 2020 at 15:57:55
“Solitaire, I hope you won’t take this personally, I love you!”
I should print that out and frame it!
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“I should print that out and frame it!”
You should because you know that I do love you, but only when you show the intelligence that I know you capable of.
“Oh, bull [moderated word]. You were obviously trying to discredit and disparage me. Remember this: “Criminals always want to ‘forget’ the past and live in an eternal “now”. I wonder why?” But you forgot I’d actually and recently brought up that very past to you.”
Now, now, my dear, I was disparaging your nonsensical claim that I was making the same argument you made. You think that racism is some kind of supra-historical force that fuels white people and allows them to do as they please. I used the Kongo Portugal example to show you that it ain’t necessarily so. The correspondence between the king of Portugal and Spain and the Habshi peshwa of Amednaghar, Malik Ambar is devoid of the racism you and others on this blog go looking for.
You make me laugh when I read your claim that white oppression of blacks has always been so. Janjira State was founded by black Africans in India and lasted 459 years (1489-1948). One of their leaders, admiral Qasim Yakut Khan a/k/a Sidi Yaqub an Afro-Indian that present day Indians are trying to ‘claim’ as a ‘pure’ Indian forced the British under sir John Child to surrender Bombay in 1690 and pay a huge indemnity to the Mughal emperor.
Your talk of “Right, once again blaming the victim. You will throw anyone under the bus in your zeal to defend the CCP.” is bull [immoderate word] based on pure emotions. Please explain the fact that even British scum like football hooligans get treated like citizens worthy of rights even after they riot? Are people that impressed with their white skins or is it because Britain was the world power from the 18th to the 20th century?
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“Well Grojo just because I am criticizing China’s Imperialism doesn’t mean that I support U.S. Imperialism.”
Never claimed you did.
“The article I posted spoke about China’s pollution in the Sudan. Of course American companies do the same thing in Nigeria.”
Very perceptive of you.
“The article was biased in favor of U.S. foreign policy but that doesn’t take away from China’s dealings on the continent.”
Glad to see that you can see bias so clearly. It would have been more interesting if you had found serious writings from African experts on the subject, not African ventriloquist dummies like the African guy who co-authored the article you linked to.
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So true, it is definitely rigged for sure. Yet, we shall survive just like always. If the Middle Passage didn’t kill us. COVID-19 won’t do it either. We will continue to adapt, grow, and flourish. Stay safe!
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African expert ?
The next time I have a question about the U.S. I will see if I can locate a North American expert.
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You should.
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I hope that the African Americans of Guangzhou are getting better representation than black entrepreneur Frederick Bruce Thomas got in 1928.
“Frederick Bruce Thomas (Russian: Фредерик Брюс Томас; November 4, 1872 – June 12, 1928) was an African-American from Coahoma County, Mississippi who became a prominent businessman in the entertainment industry of Moscow and, later, Constantinople (now known as Istanbul).
Thomas was born to former slaves Lewis and Hannah Thomas, who owned a farm in Coahoma County. After his father was murdered, he left Mississippi for London, intending to work as a waiter but then moved to Russia, where he prospered and owned and operated a number of successful theaters and restaurants for 19 years. During the Russian Revolution, he fled to İstanbul Turkey, where he had less success in business and went into debt. His passport request was denied by US consulate due to his slave past and he was unable to return to the United States and died in a debtor’s prison.[1] He was buried in the Feriköy Protestant Cemetery in Constantinople.”
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@ Gro Jo
“Now, now, my dear, I was disparaging your nonsensical claim that I was making the same argument you made.”
Don’t pretend to be obtuse. I was referring to the disparaging comments you made prior to my “nonsensical claim.”
“You make me laugh when I read your claim that white oppression of blacks has always been so.”
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that. It’s demonstrably untrue. White oppression of blacks started about 500 years ago, and it began as Christian oppression of non-Christians.
“You should because you know that I do love you, but only when you show the intelligence that I know you capable of.”
In your eyes, I’m intelligent when I agree with you. When I disagree, I’m dense, stupid, and emotional. That’s a very subjective measure of IQ, which I doubt will stand up to scientific rigor.
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“In your eyes, I’m intelligent when I agree with you. When I disagree, I’m dense, stupid, and emotional. That’s a very subjective measure of IQ, which I doubt will stand up to scientific rigor.”
I don’t believe in IQ tests.
“Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that. It’s demonstrably untrue. White oppression of blacks started about 500 years ago, and it began as Christian oppression of non-Christians.”
Any theories on why that’s so?
“Don’t pretend to be obtuse. I was referring to the disparaging comments you made prior to my “nonsensical claim.”
Ok then.
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@Afrofem:
I am well, thankful that I got to stay home, and still getting paid and able to pay my rent and have food and utilities. I still think it’s too early to open the businesses up in the state. I will continue to stay sheltered in place. Hope you are safe.
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@ Mary Burrell
I’m glad to hear that you are well and able to take care of your needs financially.
It is still too early for businesses to open up in Texas and nationally. However, people will learn that lesson the hard way in the coming months.
Read those books on your list, enjoy some movies and stay safe, Mary.
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@ gro jo
“No matter how ‘racist’ the Chinese may be, not one of you can claim that if these things did happen, that it was official policy.”
Nice gaslight attempt. LOL.
The use of the police (aka agents of the state who enforce “official policy”) in the mistreatment of African nationals and Americans of African descent indicates the backing of the State.
In short, the mistreatment of Africans and Black Americans is Official Policy. The PRC is trying to deflect blame on themselves by scapegoating melanin rich foreign nationals. That is what governments do to maintain control and compliance by their
subjectscitizens. From the LA Times article jefe linked to upthread:PRC gaslighters conveniently forgot that the alarm about their actions was raised by the African nationals themselves. The USA and its media are latecomers to this issue. It is yet another way for the PRC to deny agency to the people of Africa.
It is hilarious to see you resort to your usual deflection, derailment, dismissal, namecalling and gaslighting to valorize the PRC. Not to mention the use of irrelevant (and repeated across threads) use of ancient history to make weak rebuttals.
Whatever the PRC did back in the day, in the current historical moment they are now fully on board with White supremacist dogma. They still worship “their White Folks”.
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“…if these things did happen…”
“If” indeed!
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trumps-opening-country-council-features-political-donors/story?id=70214367
So Trumps “council” on the Coronavirus is basically made up of people who have a vested interest in Trump’s election. All are pushing to open the country up. I heard elsewhere that the people behind the “demonstrations” are the same who backed the tea party.
Since public gatherings with politicians aren’t possible Trump will use these demonstrations as a way to campaign.
This could back fire on Trump if he opens to early, the numbers spike, and he has to shut it back down again.
In his hurry to save the economy he might in fact help destroy it.
I think Governors in States which have high numbers are going to resist that. Likely the new norm will include social distancing, face masks and redoing work areas to limit infection to workers.
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” on Wed Apr 22nd 2020 at 21:46:50
Afrofem
“…if these things did happen…”
“If” indeed!
Is she jefe’s mom?
Please show me the law that specifically targets Black people? If they are “… now fully on board with White supremacist dogma…”, they need to enact laws targeting Black people like in the good old days in Australia, South Africa, Rhodesia the good old USA and many other places in the ‘free world’ and you need to show that they are working Black people to death somewhere around the world, otherwise, they still have a lot of catching up to do.
“They still worship “their White Folks”.” if they do, why is that your business?
All the crap that has been advanced as ‘proof’ such as: ” But this campaign extended beyond Africans to anyone who is black.
is bull [immoderate word]. Why? Because some pizza jock from Jersey feels free to defy the authorities because he feels like it, apparently unconcerned that his license would be revoked for noncompliance, if this isn’t bull [immoderate word], I don’t know what is. Note that he nor his employees asked for these orders in writing. It’s getting tiresome arguing with people as naive as you guys are.
“The use of the police (aka agents of the state who enforce “official policy”) in the mistreatment of African nationals and Americans of African descent indicates the backing of the State.”
Wow, the stupidity of that claim takes my breath away. Cops shoot and mistreat Blacks in the USA, is that “official policy”, if it is how do you explain the times when cops are jailed for carrying out “official policy”? Your desperate attempts to please jefe are truly embarrassing.
“Whatever the PRC did back in the day, in the current historical moment they are now fully on board with White supremacist dogma.”
Pure ignorant bull [immoderate word].
“China’s investment in Africa will create an infrastructure for African culture and innovation to accelerate. Chinese investments and contracts in sub-Saharan Africa total $299 billion from 2005 to 2018, according to the China Investment Global Tracker, and in 2018, Chinese president Xi Jinping vowed to invest a further $60 billion into African nations. If the continent can successfully navigate the issues raised by Chinese neo-colonial ambitions—such as the fear of “debt trap” diplomacy, with $130 billion in loans from China to African nations since 2000—they will be able to ascend from this trajectory into global power.”
Who else is investing that much in Africa? Do you really imagine that they will jeopardize such investments because of racist incidents? If you’re so concerned about Africans, what are you doing to ensure that they benefit from such investments?
“In short, the mistreatment of Africans and Black Americans is Official Policy. The PRC is trying to deflect blame on themselves by scapegoating melanin rich foreign nationals. That is what governments do to maintain control and compliance by their subjects citizens.”
It’s funny to read your bs. Thousands of “mass incidents” i.e. riots occur in china every year without any blacks involved. Your skin color doesn’t make you special. You are not the vanguard of “The wretched of the earth”, you are a middle class black woman defending US interests, that’s all.
“Taiwan is zillion times better in this regard. You will even find black Americans who have become full-fledged Taiwanese (ie, ROC) citizens.”
jefe hasn’t tried to refute my claim that the PRC did more for the fight against racism than his beloved ROC, can you show me evidence That I’m wrong?
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Pizza jockey? Pizza a jock does not make.
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“Cops shoot and mistreat Blacks in the USA, is that “official policy”…[?]”
Now I’m the one laughing. If you don’t know the answer to that question, you really are a PRC troll who is paid by the word. “…cops are jailed for carrying out “official policy”? “ Now that’s a hoot.
I hope your pay is enough to cover your nightly snack of stinky tofu drizzled with chili sauce. Enjoy!
LOL!
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Thanks v8driver. Pizza jockey it is.
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Afrofem, if you have a comment of substance, I’ll gladly entertain it, as things stand you are intellectually bankrupt to the extent that you can’t tell friend from foe. This my last word to you until you can come up with evidence that ROC did more to fight racism than the PRC as jefe’s comment erroneously implied. Show me that it’s “official policy” to shoot Blacks in the USA, if you can.
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I kinda wanted to stay out of this? But it’s verified by mcdonalds’ corporate? Not some mom n pop shop?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/16/fact-check-guangzhou-china-mcdonalds-confirms-incident-targeting-blacks/5139470002/
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v8driver, what has been “…verified by mcdonalds’ corporate? Not some mom n pop shop?”
That it is “…Official Policy. The PRC is trying to deflect blame on themselves by scapegoating melanin rich foreign nationals.”? As some of the more excitable types on this blog claim? Or that racist incidents did occur and “…Government officials and private businesses cracked down after the report; African communities in Guangzhou have reported targeted lockdowns and forced coronavirus testing in the city. In addition to being barred from stores, as in the McDonald’s controversy, reports of black people being evicted from their homes have also surfaced.
Guangzhou’s police department and public health officials told reporters Tuesday that they had reacted to rumors that “300,000 black people in Guangzhou were setting off a second epidemic,” which “caused panic.” They now say the rumor was false.” Did they ever say it was true, or is the article trying to lead the reader to that conclusion? More information is required to decide one way or the other.
Please show me where the article you linked to stated that the government of the PRC was behind that sign and other incidents? Are Chinese people racist, are people in the USA of all colors racist? Yes to both. Did racist incidents occur in China and the USA? Yes, are they “Official policy” in either nation? No.
Thanks for your intervention on this issue. I would never have dreamed that you’d be the most cogent interlocutor on this blog! People will surprise you.
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@gro jo thanks, but i’m not the best writer here obviously. And yes, it’s not going to be China’s stated policy towards, honestly, we don’t call people black or white in our house if possible, but…
also, you should know ‘rickshaws to rockets’ is an ugly morpho-sophism and i am looking up about the intellectuals in china and how they fared during the rest of the world’s space race era, but it’s not too popular of a subject.
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An op-ed from Georgia. Posting in this thread because the author makes a salient point about black people being over-represented in the types of jobs Governor Kemp is ordering back to work:
https://decaturish.com/2020/04/dear-decaturish-governors-decision-to-reopen-businesses-is-political-murder/
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@ gro jo
“This my last word to you until…”
I will hold you to that vow which I think is Ab Fab (absolutely fabulous).
I will continue to comment on your deflections, derailments and dismissals and gaslighting as I see fit.
This is going to be fun….
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“@gro jo thanks, but i’m not the best writer here obviously. And yes, it’s not going to be China’s stated policy towards, honestly, we don’t call people black or white in our house if possible, but…”
But what? Say what you have to say. Are you implying that it is their unstated policy? Ridiculous. The PRC has invested between $299 billion to $359 billion in Africa, in your opinion, would it be wise of them to offend people you don’t call black or white in your house?
“also, you should know ‘rickshaws to rockets’ is an ugly morpho-sophism and i am looking up about the intellectuals in china and how they fared during the rest of the world’s space race era, but it’s not too popular of a subject.”
“Perfesser” v8driver, what is a “morpho-sophism”, and what gave you the impression that I care if it’s ugly or pretty?
What’s this mind numbing noise I hear in the background? Ah, it’s Afro-somebody looking to make everything about her ego.
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Well perhaps morphosophism is the closest made up word i could come up with for it seems that the great leap forward and cultural revolution were about the proletariat and no more ‘old’ notions etc, so how did that work out for the intellectuals that would have built spacecraft, in the 1950’s-1960’s.
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Whatever. How about sophomorphism, phophorsmoism, etc. 🙂
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@ Solitaire
Thank you for the Decaurish link. Eye-opening reading, comments and all.
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Crikey! I meant to write, Decaturish.
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a morphosophism as in shifting goalposts,
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or some sideways ish! 🙂
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@gro jo I think the intellectuals in china during the people’s war and the great leap forward and cultural culling didn’t do so good
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v8driver, if you want to know more from the perspective of Dongping Han, buy or borrow his book: The Unknown Cultural Revolution: Life and Change in a Chinese Village
Most people on this blog believe that if something isn’t in the NYT, Economist or The Times, it must be propaganda.
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@ gro jo
Deleted two of your text dumps.
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ok gro jo
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Hua Chun Ying, the senior government spokesperson for Beijing said the following on Monday in response to the civil unrest across the US in the past week.
I wonder how black Americans feel about the CCP propaganda arm referring to them as their “African friends” after they most unabashedly subjected both actual Africans and black Americans to forced coronavirus testing, quarantine, kicking them out of their homes, refusing service to them, etc. in Chinese cities, especially Guangzhou which has the largest community. They were actually blaming the spread of the coronavirus within China on black people, most of whom never left China during the pandemic.
Next, “All Lives Matter” is a white supremacist response to discount and minimise the significance of “Black Lives Matter”. In fact, “All Lives Matter” even would include “Blue Lives Matter” themes. It is not a measure of solidarity with black people.
The CCP is very well schooled in exploiting the US’s racial divide to their advantage. Zhao Li Jian, whom I referenced before, is one of the “wolf warriors” trying to do this the most. You may recall that over a year ago, he criticized the US govt’s criticism of the Uyghur concentration camps by pointing out how hypocritical the US is as it is well known that whites in DC avoid the south quadrants of DC where all the black and brown people live (Here an Anacostia native reading that!), resulting in a stern accusation of racism from Susan Rice. Zhao also was the one spinning the conspiracy theory that the US Army planted the coronavirus in Wuhan last year.
So many of their arguments are simply tone deaf. The must be purely for domestic consumption.
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“…our African friends”
What a hoot.
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Recently came across local stories about community refrigerators and “blessing boxes”. People in various cities are setting up mutual aid networks that focus on feeding people. Refrigerators are stocked with perishable food items and “blessing boxes” have canned and other dry goods. The food is free for anyone to take.
Volunteers setting up a free community refrigerator in a Seattle neighborhood:
https://crosscut.com/culture/2020/09/new-seattle-pantries-fight-food-insecurity-one-fridge-time
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This is an example of a community fridge in Long Beach, CA:
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